October 3, 2026 • 36 mins
In Hour 3 of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, Clay and Buck dive into a pair of high-profile legal controversies, beginning with the reopened investigation into an alleged 2024 sexual assault involving Cornell University fraternity members. The hosts stress the importance of withholding judgment and following the evidence as questions of consent, drugs and alcohol, witness accounts, digital communications, and competing allegations receive national attention. They compare the intense public reaction to previous college sexual-assault controversies, including the Duke lacrosse case and the discredited Rolling Stone University of Virginia story, and debate the dangers of allowing media narratives, social media pressure, or identity politics to determine guilt before the legal process runs its course.
Clay argues that colleges are poorly equipped to investigate serious criminal allegations and contrasts campus disciplinary proceedings with the higher evidentiary standards and due-process protections of the criminal justice system. After reviewing commentary from Sunny Hostin, Clay and Buck highlight her discussion of the accuser's original 2024 statement to police, which Hostin said described the drug use and sexual activity as consensual, compared with the allegations being made in 2026. The hosts praise Hostin for what they characterize as a careful, evidence-based approach while reiterating that sexual assault allegations must be taken seriously and that any determination should rest on established facts rather than an online rush to judgment.
Hour 3 also revisits the Lindsay Clancy case following a new Massachusetts court hearing and the mistrial in her earlier proceeding. Clay focuses on what he sees as a remarkable shift by defense attorney Kevin Reddington, contrasting the previous defense centered on Clancy's mental state and alleged psychosis with new courtroom questions challenging whether prosecutors can prove she committed the killings at all. Clay explains the legal concepts of mens rea and actus reus while he and Buck debate what could motivate such a dramatic change in strategy. They speculate about whether the defense is attempting to discourage prosecutors from pursuing another case and ask attorneys and legal professionals in the audience whether they have seen anything comparable. A retired judge named Tom from Idaho, who says he spent 24 years on the bench and presided over hundreds of jury trials, calls the program and says he has never encountered a similar defense maneuver. Clay also previews continued coverage of the holdout juror from the Clancy mistrial and the controversy surrounding criticism of that juror.
The political focus of Hour 3 of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show turns to the crucial 2026 Michigan midterm elections with Republican gubernatorial candidate and Congressman John James. James describes Michigan as a pivotal battleground not only for the governor's race but also for control of Congress and the U.S. Senate, highlighting Republican Mike Rogers' Senate campaign and competitive congressional contests across the state. Clay and Buck question James about Michigan's economy, infrastructure, schools, taxes, unemployment, energy costs, cost of living, business climate, and years of Democratic leadership. James makes the case for lower taxes and regulation while contrasting his business and military experience with Democratic gubernatorial opponent Jocelyn Benson. The discussion also covers Detroit, political outreach across racial and demographic lines, education, economic opportunity, population and business growth, and James' effort to expand Republican support among voters dissatisfied with longstanding Democratic governance. James recounts his Detroit roots, his parents' journey from the Jim Crow South, his military service as a combat veteran, his business career, and his argument that Republicans can compete for voters who have traditionally supported Democrats.
Clay, Buck, and James additionally discuss crime and public safety in Michigan, including whether a James administration would cooperate with President Donald Trump's administration, FBI Director Kash Patel, federal law enforcement, local police, and other agencies in an effort to reduce violent crime in Detroit. James says he would prioritize local law enforcement while using federal resources when needed and promises to work across party lines to improve public safety for Michigan residents. The interview frames the Michigan governor's race, Michigan Senate race, Republican congressional majority, Detroit crime, affordability, economic policy, and the 2026 midterm elections as interconnected contests with significant national implications.
Finally, Hour 3 of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show circles back to the Cornell and Lindsay Clancy legal stories, with Clay and Buck emphasizing due process, presumption of innocence, prosecutorial standards, jury de
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. Third hour kicks
off now. Some things in the legal realm that we
want to talk to you about. We mentioned the Lindsay
Clancy attorney and some of the updates on that. We'll
dive back into that here momentarily. Clay, I also wanted
to note a story that is getting a lot of
attention and it has to do with Cornell University and allegations.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Of a 2024.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Gang rape that occurred. It's an alleged gang rape, and
there is now a reopened criminal investigation that involves a fraternity,
obviously a named victim, and there's a civil suit, I believe,
that is also proceeding. Clay, have you been following this one?
(00:53):
Because this is getting a lot of people very spun
up and taking sides on this. And here is just,
there's the context for this, there's the facts of this,
and then there's the analysis of it that's coming from
different people. And I think it's important to get all
those things correct and stick with where the facts are
(01:14):
right now. First of all, Clay, as we know, there
have been other very high-profile rape cases involving college campuses,
most notably the Duke lacrosse case and the UVA fraternity,
I believe it was a fraternity, but it was a
(01:35):
UVA gang rape case. Both of those cases, which you
will recall because there were national media phenomena at the time,
both of those cases were in the lacrosse case, It
was all a lie and a defamation, a nuclear cross case,
and that all came out. Those men were not– it's
(01:56):
not that they were not guilty. They were innocent, actually.
And the state came out of North Carolina eventually and
had to say that after the prosecutor there, I believe
his name was Nifong, tried to ruin their lives. And
then there's the case at UVA, which is really a
non-case or no case because the whole thing was fictional.
(02:17):
The whole incident and the individuals and everything was fictional,
but it was written by Rolling Stone, by a Rolling
Stone reporter, who took it all on the word of
some obviously emotionally unstable woman. Now, those are the cases
that people very often immediately think of in an instance
like this. Is that what has happened here? I do
(02:40):
not know. It is not clear. What is clear, Clay,
right now... is that it seems there was extremely grotesque
conduct that some of these fraternity brothers engaged in. And
now the big issue is, or the big question is,
(03:03):
was it consensual or not? That seems to be what
this whole case, as far as I can see, turned. Now,
they've gone into group chats. And it's one of these
things where you say, these guys are in college. Some
of them, I think, are out and have already lost.
One of them just got fired. By the way, Clay,
this is going to result in, if there aren't criminals,
there's going to be, I'm sure, defamation and all kinds.
(03:24):
This is going to turn into a whole legal mess, additionally,
to what we've seen. But you're the lawyer. Do you
agree that right now it seems that this whole thing,
the reopening of this case, there was a public outcry
about it, about the Cornell-alleged seven-person case alleged gang rape.
Their claims from the lawyers are that all activity was
(03:46):
entirely consensual. There were, there were drugs and alcohol involved.
There were multiple sexual encounters with this college aged woman.
I think she was 19 or 20 at the time.
And this is, this has turned into a, you know,
CBS news, the New York times, everybody is covering this
situation and it has become highly politicized very quickly and,
(04:09):
So we have to be very careful about where the
facts lead and where they do not.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah, my general take on these, and I have not
read all of the court filings, so I always want
to be clear when I've done all my due diligence
as if I were involved in the case and when
I haven't. My general proposition on this is twofold. One,
we live in an era where men tend to be
(04:34):
overcharged now, not undercharged. And you can use several of
those cases. The UVA case completely fell apart. The Duke
lacrosse case completely fell apart. We talked about this some
a few years ago on the program. There was the punter.
If you remember in the NFL, college punter who was
accused of having sex with an underage girl, if I
(04:54):
remember correctly.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
He lost his job. He was kicked out of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
And then it came out that the evidence actually supported
that everything was consensual.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And he's now, I think, back in the NFL, or
he was. In general....
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Men tend to be overcharged. So I am skeptical that
there is huge glaring evidence of criminal act that was
investigated by authorities and was overlooked, meaning they were treated
too favorably. Second part of this book. Colleges have no
business being involved in rape and sexual assault investigations. Whatever
(05:37):
your position is on this particular case, I'm just talking
in a general context. Because they often have kangaroo court
style investigations that take place and their standard is the
civil standard. is it more likely to have happened or not,
as opposed to the criminal, beyond a reasonable doubt, high
(06:00):
probability of conviction, whatever standard you want to apply to
an investigation. Why do I bring that up? Some of
you probably are parents out there that have been involved
in these situations. If you are a lawyer advising someone,
a lot of times they say you shouldn't participate in
the investigation in college because because you're potentially creating criminal
(06:20):
liability for yourself in a otherwise civil standard proceeding where
you don't have sometimes basic due process rights of, for example,
cross-examining the accuser. What often happens, Buck, in the modern
era is there's so much technology that is out there,
(06:41):
text messages, videos, Snapchat messages. Just think about your average individual. 18, 19, 20,
21 year old kid out there, their nights are very
highly documented. And a lot of times there is evidence
that the woman is consenting. She's sending text messages to
her friends saying, oh, this guy's so cute. I can't
(07:03):
wait to go home with him. And then they conduct
an investigation after allegations are made. As you mentioned, oftentimes
alcohol and or drugs are involved, too. which gets into
how reliable are witness statements, how well are things remembered,
what is and is not consensual. All of this is
just an incredible mountain of a mess. It's getting a
(07:27):
lot of attention. My general belief is a lot of
these cases get covered from a political perspective. I don't
know if we know a lot about the guys who
were involved here or the women that were involved. But
the cases that oftentimes get a lot of attention are
the Duke lacrosse style cases where you have white perpetrators alleged.
(07:47):
The bad guys are white guys and the good guys,
the good gal is a minority. And so it follows
identity politics prism here. where they say, oh, the white
guy is guilty and the minority woman is a victim,
and then you go back and look at it. In
Duke Lacrosse, it was the exact opposite, right? The women
and the woman. In the Duke Lacrosse case, one of
(08:09):
them ended up killing a person.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
No, the woman, Crystal Mangum, went on to stab her
boyfriend in the heart later on and went away for manslaughter. So, yeah,
they should have actually brought false... false allegation charges, which
is a real thing. I do not believe this line
you'll hear, by the way, from people, oh, but that
will stop real victims from coming forward. No, there's a
(08:32):
difference between, sorry, we believe that maybe you were a victim,
but we can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in
a court of law. And we can prove beyond a
reasonable doubt in a court of law that you are
completely lying and tried to ruin someone's life. Those are
entirely different standards and entirely applicable in a legal context.
and should be applied, and they weren't in that case
(08:54):
with Crystal Mangum, who, like I said, went away for
manslaughter later on. Nifong, the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse case,
he lost not only his job, I think. I think
he actually was criminally charged, which also should have happened
for official misconduct in that case. While we're talking about
attorney behavior, we've got an audio clip that I want
to play for you.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We were discussing a little bit in the last hour.
They had another Lindsey Clancy hearing today, and we had
a judge do something that I have never seen. Sorry,
we had a defense attorney do something that I've never
seen before. And I opened up phone lines. I'm curious
for the lawyers out there listening.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
800-282-2882.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Have you ever heard of this happening? Just in the
most recent trial, the attorney here, I believe his name
is Kevin Reddington, he said that Lindsay Clancy murdered her
kids but didn't have the mental capacity to have done
so because she was basically temporarily insane. Then today, and
I'm going to play these two cuts side by side,
(09:56):
today he said.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Lindsay Clancy may not have even killed these kids. This
is wild.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
This is what just happened in Massachusetts court a little
bit earlier today.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
This is a woman.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
That did not get the medication, did not get the
medical treatment that she so deserved.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
This is a woman that was suffering from.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Psychosis at the time that she went down to that basement.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
There he is describing her going down to the basement.
She's got psychosis. The defense is she didn't have the
mental capacity because she was insane to be held responsible
for the murder.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Here he is in court today, Buck.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Where's the evidence that she did this?
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Where is the evidence that she did this?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Okay, so now he has shifted, and I know this
is getting a little bit into the weeds, but he
is shifting his defense for her in the wake of
the mistrial from she was not mentally capable, right? The
mens rea element was not met because she was temporarily
insane to now she didn't do it at all. I've
(11:13):
never seen anything like this. I... I mean, I am, again,
open phone lines. I saw this coming across social media
and going viral, and I couldn't believe that it was real.
And so I'm curious to hear from some attorneys. By
the way, we're going to be joined by John James,
candidate for governor, state of Michigan, as a Republican here
(11:36):
at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
What is Reddington's play here? What is this? It feels
like he's actually just trying to chum the waters for
the online psychosis mob. To see if that will derail
things in favor of his client. I don't know what
else he could be doing.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I think he's trying to intimidate the prosecutor from bringing
additional charges. But I just, I don't remember a case where.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Admitted that your client killed the kids and offered the
defense of temporary insanity, basically, like you were mentally ill,
so you can't be held responsible. And then you shift
to she didn't actually do it in a second trial.
I don't know that I've ever seen anything like this,
and I'm curious if any of you have. Now, sometimes, Buck,
(12:27):
there's additional evidence that comes out, but I haven't heard
him say, oh, we've got some new evidence that came out,
and so your fact pattern's different, and so you have
to adjust what your defense is. But again, there are
two elements of every crime, typically, mens rea and actus rea.
The mens rea defense is you didn't have the mental
(12:48):
capacity basically to commit the crime. The other one is
that whether or not you actually did it, he's now
basically making the OJ defense. Somebody else are threatening to
use the OJ defense. Somebody else committed this crime, not
Lindsey Clancy. This is, again, I'm not sure that I've
(13:10):
ever seen anything like this. This is an unprecedented case.
And I'm curious if any of you out there have
ever in your time in criminal law experienced cases like these.
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But during the break, uh, I was doing some research
more on this Cornell case and you're right. Everybody under
(15:14):
the sun has an opinion on this case. Um, I
actually found one that I thought was intriguing because I
didn't expect it. Sonny Hostin is right now defending the
seven Cornell students, saying that in her experience as a prosecutor,
she's saying a lot of what I said, which is
(15:38):
these cases, they don't just let guys walk. There has
to be pretty substantial evidence that there might have been.
I don't know if we have that clip in from
her yet, but that there might have been some form
of consent. And I rarely say this, but I would
actually just echo Sonny here because I think that that
is very likely to be found to be true as
(16:00):
more of this evidence comes out. In other words, Buck,
let me put it to you this way. Sorry, I
thought we were playing a Sonny Hostin clip. Well, I
thought we had it, but evidently we don't have that
clip yet. Here, what I would say is, again, I
just come back to prosecutors. I know that there's this
idea out there that like, oh, everybody's being protected. Prosecutors
(16:23):
are not just going to let somebody who is guilty
of something like this.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
This is a volatile, this is a huge case. This
is a huge thing. This is the kind of case
that if a prosecutor fumbled, it ends their career. By
the way, rightly so. If there was a gang rape
that took place, it's a horrible, a heinous crime that
people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
We also have to know, though, that we have a
justice system for a reason and we have the presentation
(16:50):
of evidence and the ability to mount a defense and
all of these things because there have been high profile
false gang rape cases reported. On campuses or adjacent to
campuses involving college students. And, you know, we need to
keep that as well in mind here. We have to
get to what is true, not what the online mob
(17:12):
is demanding.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I mean, and I've just seen it happen so often where.
people decide what the story of a case is and
then more of the evidence comes out. And again, I
just don't think, by the way, Cornell, not exactly a
location where I think you could get away with a
lot of crimes. Fair to say, I mean, it's not,
it's not as if they have an overloaded police department
(17:37):
that is incapable of handling the criminal load there. Um, Again,
we'll play Sonny for you. I can't believe I'm saying this,
but I think I'm going to agree with Sonny. This
is a big deal, Clay.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
This is true. Oh, there's something I don't have time
to get to now. We'll get to the other side
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Clay and Buck. As promised, we are joined by Congressman
John James. He is Michigan's GOP candidate for governor. Congressman,
(19:02):
thank you so much for being here with us. We
appreciate it. We know this is High time. This is
crunch time for the election, so you've got a lot
of things going on right now. Where do you stand
against your competitor? How are you going to bring home
the W?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Well, we are exactly where we need to be.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
Michigan is the center of the electoral universe right now
in this midterm, and we're excited. We have a tremendous candidate,
Mike Rogers, running for Senate. We have some amazing folks
running for re-election in Congress, a couple open seats.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
And we know... that a strong top of ticket Michigan
is not only.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Going to be good for Michigan, but it's also going
to be good for the rest of the nation. We
know that weak or toxic, toxic tickets drag down the
rest of the race and will put us in jeopardy
of holding our majority in Congress. And there's no telling
what actually there is. They communicated exactly what they're going
to do. They're going to lock up any progress. They're
going to impeach on day one. They're going to open
(19:58):
our borders, make D.C. a state and all kinds of
crazy things. And so this is common sense versus crazy.
We have the most extreme ticket in Michigan's history, and
we are standing up against socialism, And we are standing
up for the United States of America.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
John, it was good to see you recently. You know,
my wife is from Michigan, Oakland County area. I really,
really want to impress upon everybody out there listening right
now how important it is that you win this race,
how important it is that Mike Rogers win this race
as well. For people out there, Michigan has had Democrat control,
(20:32):
double Democrat senators, Democrat governor for the last eight plus years.
If you're upset right now about the direction of the country,
President Trump's last 18 months is not the reason Michiganders
are upset. What could you do to put Michigan on
the right track, and how would you make that clear,
that pitch? If you're unhappy in Michigan right now, it's
(20:53):
not about who the president is. It's about the choices
you've made in state government.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
That's correct.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Right now, Michigan is 42nd out of 50 in infrastructure,
43rd out of 50 in economy, 45th out of 50
in education. We're 46 out of 50. That means there
are 45 states doing better than us, and we all
have the same president. Right now, we have some of
the highest unemployment, highest taxes, and highest costs of living
in the entire Midwest, and they want.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
To blame other people. Well, that's not the case. That's
not reality.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
It's time for a change in Michigan. It is time
for a change, and the people have the opportunity to
vote for a combat veteran who has business experience and
will work with anyone to get resources back to the
state of Michigan. I'm excited for what the future holds,
especially when you have an extreme ticket that has literally
been failing at every single step, continuing to lie, and
(21:45):
would have an open doormat for socialism into our country.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Tell us about how you stack up to your competitor
when it comes to dealing with cost of living and
people being able to pay their bills, because we know
that's such a huge issue for all of the competitive states,
all the competitive elections coming up now in the midterms.
As we know, people are already voting in a lot
of states.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah, because you can't sue your way out of your problems.
I still think experience matters.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
And before you become the CEO of a state, I
don't know, maybe you should have run a successful business before.
Maybe you should understand what high taxes and burdensome regulation
and a and an extremely litigious environment that makes it
difficult for people to grow their businesses and be employed.
Maybe that's something that we should get away from. Trying
to weave into your affordability plan like my opponent has,
(22:32):
sneaky taxes and refusing to deal with the regulations that
make it difficult for people to be able to live
a peaceful and cheap life here in Michigan, those are
the types of things that are hurting. Right now, the
gas prices in Michigan are highest amongst our Midwestern friends
and neighbors. And even Jocelyn Benson, my opponent, stated just
(22:53):
last week that Ohio and Indiana are eating our lunch.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Well, guess what? Ohio and Indiana are run by Republican governors.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
And in fact, the fastest growing states are states that
are run by Republicans who have lower taxes and lower regulations,
where the fastest shrinking states are the ones that are
run by terrible Democrat policies. Again, Michigan flips back and
forth from Democrat to Republican every time we have an
open seat, and this year will.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Not be an exception.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
We're talking to John James. There's two big races going on.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
You know, this Senate race and the and the governor's race.
We saw Abdul El-Sayed struggle with black voters. In fact,
most black voters in the Democrat primary actually supported Haley Stevens.
What are you seeing out there there? You and I
were talking recently. I think there's a lot of men.
We were talking about the Lindsay Clancy case. There's a
(23:43):
lot of guys out there, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, that
are just over the BS. In fact, the one juror
who had the guts, who was enough of a hero
to stand up and say no, actually was a black
guy from Massachusetts, didn't surprise me. I don't think it
surprised you. Lots of guys out there, in particular of
(24:05):
all different backgrounds, are over this BS. Are you seeing
that in Michigan today? What would you say about that juror?
And how would you reach out to people regardless of
their background to support you there?
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Well, first of all, our hearts are still broken over
those three little angels who were murdered in cold blood.
And I want to applaud the gentleman who stood up
for the right thing. He did the right thing, thinking
more about those children than the political pressure and the
pressure he was getting in the room.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
He understood the truth and he did the right thing.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
And that's what's really missing right now in today's society,
by switching truth for lies and lies for truth. And
he stood up for truth on his convictions and did
the right thing. But right now, overall, people are just
sick of being told not to believe their eyes. People
are sick of being sold a bill of goods and
people are beginning to wake up. People in Detroit, for example,
know they've been under Democrat rule for over 60 years
(25:00):
and nothing has changed.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
In fact, things have gotten worse. I was raised in Detroit,
And the.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Same houses that I passed by as a little boy
that were burned during Devil's Night, I passed by an
adult as an adult.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
But there was a tree growing through it. Somebody needs
to do something.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
And the good Lord has blessed me enough that I
could step up and be able to fight for those
who can't fight for themselves and stand for those who
can't stand for themselves.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
And that's why I'm running. When you have things where
you are being able.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
To deliver excellent schools, safer streets, and a more affordable
Michigan with policies that actually work in the real world,
rather than these these ivory tower ideas from the coastal
elites that are completely detached from reality. These are the
types of things that people are beginning to wake up
and saying, enough, enough with the ideology, enough with the pandering.
(25:43):
And frankly, when you look at places like Detroit, Johnson
Benson was on the board of the SPLC, and this
is a group that funneled money to extremist groups like
the KKK. She also had two racial discrimination lawsuits against
her and has a court case against her for racial
gerrymandering in the city of Detroit. And so people are
beginning to open their eyes and say, oh my goodness,
(26:05):
we can recognize the difference between an opportunity with John
James or an opportunist with Jocelyn Benson.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And people are giving us a shot.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
I've gone around with everyone from preachers to rappers, and
people are keeping an open mind. And I'm excited for
the opportunity to make sure that we bring prosperity to
everywhere around the state, but it's going to have a
disproportionate positive effect to people who've been disrespected, disregarded, and
disenfranchised for the longest period of time.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Congressman James, one of the stories that Clay and I
have been trying to publicize a lot, you know, we
just saw the president yesterday and we were talking about
what a great job FBI Director Patel has done and
the numbers speak for themselves. It shows quite clearly major
drops in violent crime, particularly in cities where the federal government,
using its resources like the FBI and other partner agencies,
(26:54):
have cracked down on violent crime, D.C., Memphis, other places
as well. Detroit has unfortunately for a long time had
a reputation as a rough and violent place. If you
become the governor of Michigan, are you looking to work
with the Trump administration and federal law enforcement partners to
bring something of a safety miracle to Detroit, bring the
(27:16):
murder rate down 30, 40, 50 percent as we've seen
in other places?
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I will work with anyone and everyone who's committed, as
I am, to making Michigan and Michiganders safer. I'm going
to start by working at the local level, by making
sure that we're bringing resources to the local level to
police our own streets. But then if there are resources
available to support, then we will request those resources as
they are needed. And I will work with anyone, Republicans, Democrats,
(27:43):
anywhere in between, because my job is to be governor
for all 10 million Michiganders, just like I served people
of different races, colors, and creeds in combat, just like
I serve my customers regardless of race, color, and creed
in business, and just like I'm serving every member of
my district in Michigan as a congressman. This is service
(28:03):
before self, and I'm excited for the opportunity to lead,
and I will avail myself of every resource to keep
my people safe.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
John James, I want you to tell us how we
can help you. And I said this to you when
I saw you most recently. Let me know when I
can come up and I will help you campaign to
get you over the finish line here. But I want
you to give a chance because I know you've introduced
yourself a lot, but there's still people who don't know
your background, don't know your story. Tell us about your service.
(28:30):
Tell us where people can go to sign up and
support and help you.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Well, I'm the result of the American dream.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
I'm the result of parents who came up from the
Jim Crow South who believed that Michigan would give them
a better life. But right now, I'm raising their grandchildren,
my children, who might have to leave Michigan to find it.
I think that's wrong. Right now, Michigan is the front lines,
the battlefield, and the midterms for the soul and the
future of our nation and of this republic.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
And if we fall to socialism right now in.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
This time, then Reagan's premonition will come true, that when
we get older, we will talk about when we used
to be a free nation. Right now, we have the
opportunity as Republicans to do what we've always done, We
have always marched to where the issues were. The Republican
Party is a party of emancipation. The Republican Party is
a party of women's suffrage. The Republican Party is a
(29:16):
party of the civil rights movement and criminal justice reform.
We just have to know our legacy and be able
to stand up in this time to be able to
free men from bondage and to save our state and
our country from socialism. So if you'd like to learn
more about what we have going on in Michigan on
the front lines for this nation into the midterms to
protect women, our majority in Congress, and to make sure
(29:36):
that we have free and fair elections in a swing
state like Michigan for the presidential then go to johnjamesmi.com
or follow me on socials at johnjamesmi we need to
spread the word we need to swamp the vote we
need to make it too big to rig and we
need to make sure that we save our republic.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Congressman james best of luck to you when you win
come back do a little victory dance here with us
on the show okay Sounds great.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 7 (30:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Thanks for being here. When is a good time to
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(31:32):
saving the country one liberal at a time.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Welcome back in, Clay and Buck. I want to play
Sonny Hostin, and then I want to get to Tom
in Idaho, who's a retired judge. A couple of different
legal issues that we were discussing. First here, Sonny Hostin
talking about this Cornell case.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And I can't believe I'm saying this, Buck, but.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I think I sign off, cosign on everything Sonny Hostin
is saying here.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Listen.
Speaker 6 (32:01):
The pictures of these young men who have not been charged,
not been adjudicated, are being plastered all over the Internet.
I think people are reporting this story inaccurately. I think
they're reporting it unfairly. And while this is something that
we have to take very seriously, there is no way.
according to her statement in 2024, that any prosecutor would
(32:21):
have brought.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Forth a case.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yeah, but she was intoxicated.
Speaker 7 (32:24):
How did she.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
Under New York law, again, under New York law, voluntary intoxication,
if you voluntarily drink 10 beers and you voluntarily ingest
But that intoxication. That doesn't have anything to do with
the fact that the guys attacked her, whether she's drunk
or not.
Speaker 7 (32:41):
No, no.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
According to her statement, she says she did. They did
not attack her. Her statement in 2024. My issues with this.
She consented to the sexual activity. She consented to it
according to her own. statement in 2024. Now I prosecuted
sex crimes for 10 years. I believe women. I am
not saying that we shouldn't believe her, but in 2024,
she said some one thing. And now in 2026, she's
(33:04):
saying another, I wonder what she is.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
This is what I was trying to pull up before clay,
just to make sure. And what she is saying, I
did check is true. This woman who is now claiming
she was gang raped initially said it was consensual to
the police that she consented to do the drugs and
she consented to have sex. That is what is on
the record right now. Now, she can go back and say,
and she has now brought a separate claim and say that, no,
(33:30):
it was actually a rape. But I will say two
things about this. One, Sonny Hostin's analysis there sounds entirely reasonable, astute,
and professional, which I think you and I are both
kind of, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, good for her.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Good for her.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
Right.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
No.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
When she says smart things, or rather when she's being accurate,
we're going to say she's being accurate. I think it's entirely...
Another part of this that I do think is interesting,
I just would note, as Sunny Hostin has come out
in defense, and I shouldn't say in defense, but has
the right approach to this case, which is to put
the stated facts out there, not all of the men
involved in this are white. That is also just something
(34:11):
to keep in mind. She is being very fair to
these people who have had this allegation against them, I
do wonder if she would be as fair if they
were seven white defendants.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
That is all I am saying. Do we know what
the race of the woman is? I don't know that. Yeah,
I don't know either.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Tom, I asked the question because we played this Lindsay
Clancy courtroom hearing today was frankly unprecedented. And I asked, hey,
defense lawyers out there, people in the legal community, Have
you ever heard of a case where the defense in
the first case is she lacked the mental capacity because
of her insanity to have committed the murder? You're admitting
(34:57):
that she did the murder. And now you're saying, well,
she may not have even done the murder at all.
And Tom in Idaho says he's a retired judge. 24
years you spent on the bench. Have you ever seen
a case like this?
Speaker 7 (35:11):
No, I haven't, Tom. Yeah, I probably had hundreds of
jury trials, and I've never seen an attorney do what
this attorney has done, and especially attacking a jury. Sure,
I would take a look at filing a bar complaint
against him, getting a lawyer to file a lawsuit against
him for defamation, intentional infliction of emotional distress. This lawyer
(35:36):
is disgusting.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Thank you for the call, Tom.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
When we come back tomorrow, let me just put a
pin in this because I think this conversation is going
to continue. We didn't play the juror who refused to
vote not guilty. He gave a statement. It was on
Fox News. I believe it was on Sean Hannity's show
last night. We'll talk about him some more tomorrow because
I do want to dive back into this. And for
everybody out there, we've got loaded lines right now. For
(36:06):
everybody out there, we're going to have more of a
conversation about this because I've never seen anything like this.
And I believe this story is going to grow potentially
in the next 24 hours. So we'll be back with
that and all of you tomorrow. Glad to have Buck
back in the co-riding seat here. And thanks again to
(36:28):
Admiral Flatley, and I hope your family at Arlington.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Thank you. Thank you very much, Clay. And on a
much less serious note, your hair looked really on point today, buddy.
Good job.
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. Third hour kicks
off now. Some things in the legal realm that we
want to talk to you about. We mentioned the Lindsay
Clancy attorney and some of the updates on that. We'll
dive back into that here momentarily. Clay, I also wanted
to note a story that is getting a lot of
attention and it has to do with Cornell University and allegations.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Of a 2024.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Gang rape that occurred. It's an alleged gang rape, and
there is now a reopened criminal investigation that involves a fraternity,
obviously a named victim, and there's a civil suit, I believe,
that is also proceeding. Clay, have you been following this one?
(00:53):
Because this is getting a lot of people very spun
up and taking sides on this. And here is just,
there's the context for this, there's the facts of this,
and then there's the analysis of it that's coming from
different people. And I think it's important to get all
those things correct and stick with where the facts are
(01:14):
right now. First of all, Clay, as we know, there
have been other very high-profile rape cases involving college campuses,
most notably the Duke lacrosse case and the UVA fraternity,
I believe it was a fraternity, but it was a
(01:35):
UVA gang rape case. Both of those cases, which you
will recall because there were national media phenomena at the time,
both of those cases were in the lacrosse case, It
was all a lie and a defamation, a nuclear cross case,
and that all came out. Those men were not– it's
(01:56):
not that they were not guilty. They were innocent, actually.
And the state came out of North Carolina eventually and
had to say that after the prosecutor there, I believe
his name was Nifong, tried to ruin their lives. And
then there's the case at UVA, which is really a
non-case or no case because the whole thing was fictional.
(02:17):
The whole incident and the individuals and everything was fictional,
but it was written by Rolling Stone, by a Rolling
Stone reporter, who took it all on the word of
some obviously emotionally unstable woman. Now, those are the cases
that people very often immediately think of in an instance
like this. Is that what has happened here? I do
(02:40):
not know. It is not clear. What is clear, Clay,
right now... is that it seems there was extremely grotesque
conduct that some of these fraternity brothers engaged in. And
now the big issue is, or the big question is,
(03:03):
was it consensual or not? That seems to be what
this whole case, as far as I can see, turned. Now,
they've gone into group chats. And it's one of these
things where you say, these guys are in college. Some
of them, I think, are out and have already lost.
One of them just got fired. By the way, Clay,
this is going to result in, if there aren't criminals,
there's going to be, I'm sure, defamation and all kinds.
(03:24):
This is going to turn into a whole legal mess, additionally,
to what we've seen. But you're the lawyer. Do you
agree that right now it seems that this whole thing,
the reopening of this case, there was a public outcry
about it, about the Cornell-alleged seven-person case alleged gang rape.
Their claims from the lawyers are that all activity was
(03:46):
entirely consensual. There were, there were drugs and alcohol involved.
There were multiple sexual encounters with this college aged woman.
I think she was 19 or 20 at the time.
And this is, this has turned into a, you know,
CBS news, the New York times, everybody is covering this
situation and it has become highly politicized very quickly and,
(04:09):
So we have to be very careful about where the
facts lead and where they do not.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah, my general take on these, and I have not
read all of the court filings, so I always want
to be clear when I've done all my due diligence
as if I were involved in the case and when
I haven't. My general proposition on this is twofold. One,
we live in an era where men tend to be
(04:34):
overcharged now, not undercharged. And you can use several of
those cases. The UVA case completely fell apart. The Duke
lacrosse case completely fell apart. We talked about this some
a few years ago on the program. There was the punter.
If you remember in the NFL, college punter who was
accused of having sex with an underage girl, if I
(04:54):
remember correctly.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
He lost his job. He was kicked out of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
And then it came out that the evidence actually supported
that everything was consensual.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And he's now, I think, back in the NFL, or
he was. In general....
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Men tend to be overcharged. So I am skeptical that
there is huge glaring evidence of criminal act that was
investigated by authorities and was overlooked, meaning they were treated
too favorably. Second part of this book. Colleges have no
business being involved in rape and sexual assault investigations. Whatever
(05:37):
your position is on this particular case, I'm just talking
in a general context. Because they often have kangaroo court
style investigations that take place and their standard is the
civil standard. is it more likely to have happened or not,
as opposed to the criminal, beyond a reasonable doubt, high
(06:00):
probability of conviction, whatever standard you want to apply to
an investigation. Why do I bring that up? Some of
you probably are parents out there that have been involved
in these situations. If you are a lawyer advising someone,
a lot of times they say you shouldn't participate in
the investigation in college because because you're potentially creating criminal
(06:20):
liability for yourself in a otherwise civil standard proceeding where
you don't have sometimes basic due process rights of, for example,
cross-examining the accuser. What often happens, Buck, in the modern
era is there's so much technology that is out there,
(06:41):
text messages, videos, Snapchat messages. Just think about your average individual. 18, 19, 20,
21 year old kid out there, their nights are very
highly documented. And a lot of times there is evidence
that the woman is consenting. She's sending text messages to
her friends saying, oh, this guy's so cute. I can't
(07:03):
wait to go home with him. And then they conduct
an investigation after allegations are made. As you mentioned, oftentimes
alcohol and or drugs are involved, too. which gets into
how reliable are witness statements, how well are things remembered,
what is and is not consensual. All of this is
just an incredible mountain of a mess. It's getting a
(07:27):
lot of attention. My general belief is a lot of
these cases get covered from a political perspective. I don't
know if we know a lot about the guys who
were involved here or the women that were involved. But
the cases that oftentimes get a lot of attention are
the Duke lacrosse style cases where you have white perpetrators alleged.
(07:47):
The bad guys are white guys and the good guys,
the good gal is a minority. And so it follows
identity politics prism here. where they say, oh, the white
guy is guilty and the minority woman is a victim,
and then you go back and look at it. In
Duke Lacrosse, it was the exact opposite, right? The women
and the woman. In the Duke Lacrosse case, one of
(08:09):
them ended up killing a person.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
No, the woman, Crystal Mangum, went on to stab her
boyfriend in the heart later on and went away for manslaughter. So, yeah,
they should have actually brought false... false allegation charges, which
is a real thing. I do not believe this line
you'll hear, by the way, from people, oh, but that
will stop real victims from coming forward. No, there's a
(08:32):
difference between, sorry, we believe that maybe you were a victim,
but we can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in
a court of law. And we can prove beyond a
reasonable doubt in a court of law that you are
completely lying and tried to ruin someone's life. Those are
entirely different standards and entirely applicable in a legal context.
and should be applied, and they weren't in that case
(08:54):
with Crystal Mangum, who, like I said, went away for
manslaughter later on. Nifong, the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse case,
he lost not only his job, I think. I think
he actually was criminally charged, which also should have happened
for official misconduct in that case. While we're talking about
attorney behavior, we've got an audio clip that I want
to play for you.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We were discussing a little bit in the last hour.
They had another Lindsey Clancy hearing today, and we had
a judge do something that I have never seen. Sorry,
we had a defense attorney do something that I've never
seen before. And I opened up phone lines. I'm curious
for the lawyers out there listening.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
800-282-2882.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Have you ever heard of this happening? Just in the
most recent trial, the attorney here, I believe his name
is Kevin Reddington, he said that Lindsay Clancy murdered her
kids but didn't have the mental capacity to have done
so because she was basically temporarily insane. Then today, and
I'm going to play these two cuts side by side,
(09:56):
today he said.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Lindsay Clancy may not have even killed these kids. This
is wild.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
This is what just happened in Massachusetts court a little
bit earlier today.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
This is a woman.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
That did not get the medication, did not get the
medical treatment that she so deserved.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
This is a woman that was suffering from.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Psychosis at the time that she went down to that basement.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
There he is describing her going down to the basement.
She's got psychosis. The defense is she didn't have the
mental capacity because she was insane to be held responsible
for the murder.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Here he is in court today, Buck.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Where's the evidence that she did this?
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Where is the evidence that she did this?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Okay, so now he has shifted, and I know this
is getting a little bit into the weeds, but he
is shifting his defense for her in the wake of
the mistrial from she was not mentally capable, right? The
mens rea element was not met because she was temporarily
insane to now she didn't do it at all. I've
(11:13):
never seen anything like this. I... I mean, I am, again,
open phone lines. I saw this coming across social media
and going viral, and I couldn't believe that it was real.
And so I'm curious to hear from some attorneys. By
the way, we're going to be joined by John James,
candidate for governor, state of Michigan, as a Republican here
(11:36):
at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
What is Reddington's play here? What is this? It feels
like he's actually just trying to chum the waters for
the online psychosis mob. To see if that will derail
things in favor of his client. I don't know what
else he could be doing.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I think he's trying to intimidate the prosecutor from bringing
additional charges. But I just, I don't remember a case where.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Admitted that your client killed the kids and offered the
defense of temporary insanity, basically, like you were mentally ill,
so you can't be held responsible. And then you shift
to she didn't actually do it in a second trial.
I don't know that I've ever seen anything like this,
and I'm curious if any of you have. Now, sometimes, Buck,
(12:27):
there's additional evidence that comes out, but I haven't heard
him say, oh, we've got some new evidence that came out,
and so your fact pattern's different, and so you have
to adjust what your defense is. But again, there are
two elements of every crime, typically, mens rea and actus rea.
The mens rea defense is you didn't have the mental
(12:48):
capacity basically to commit the crime. The other one is
that whether or not you actually did it, he's now
basically making the OJ defense. Somebody else are threatening to
use the OJ defense. Somebody else committed this crime, not
Lindsey Clancy. This is, again, I'm not sure that I've
(13:10):
ever seen anything like this. This is an unprecedented case.
And I'm curious if any of you out there have
ever in your time in criminal law experienced cases like these.
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But during the break, uh, I was doing some research
more on this Cornell case and you're right. Everybody under
(15:14):
the sun has an opinion on this case. Um, I
actually found one that I thought was intriguing because I
didn't expect it. Sonny Hostin is right now defending the
seven Cornell students, saying that in her experience as a prosecutor,
she's saying a lot of what I said, which is
(15:38):
these cases, they don't just let guys walk. There has
to be pretty substantial evidence that there might have been.
I don't know if we have that clip in from
her yet, but that there might have been some form
of consent. And I rarely say this, but I would
actually just echo Sonny here because I think that that
is very likely to be found to be true as
(16:00):
more of this evidence comes out. In other words, Buck,
let me put it to you this way. Sorry, I
thought we were playing a Sonny Hostin clip. Well, I
thought we had it, but evidently we don't have that
clip yet. Here, what I would say is, again, I
just come back to prosecutors. I know that there's this
idea out there that like, oh, everybody's being protected. Prosecutors
(16:23):
are not just going to let somebody who is guilty
of something like this.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
This is a volatile, this is a huge case. This
is a huge thing. This is the kind of case
that if a prosecutor fumbled, it ends their career. By
the way, rightly so. If there was a gang rape
that took place, it's a horrible, a heinous crime that
people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
We also have to know, though, that we have a
justice system for a reason and we have the presentation
(16:50):
of evidence and the ability to mount a defense and
all of these things because there have been high profile
false gang rape cases reported. On campuses or adjacent to
campuses involving college students. And, you know, we need to
keep that as well in mind here. We have to
get to what is true, not what the online mob
(17:12):
is demanding.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I mean, and I've just seen it happen so often where.
people decide what the story of a case is and
then more of the evidence comes out. And again, I
just don't think, by the way, Cornell, not exactly a
location where I think you could get away with a
lot of crimes. Fair to say, I mean, it's not,
it's not as if they have an overloaded police department
(17:37):
that is incapable of handling the criminal load there. Um, Again,
we'll play Sonny for you. I can't believe I'm saying this,
but I think I'm going to agree with Sonny. This
is a big deal, Clay.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
This is true. Oh, there's something I don't have time
to get to now. We'll get to the other side
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(18:41):
and Buck and you'll save 50% off your first month.
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Clay and Buck. As promised, we are joined by Congressman
John James. He is Michigan's GOP candidate for governor. Congressman,
(19:02):
thank you so much for being here with us. We
appreciate it. We know this is High time. This is
crunch time for the election, so you've got a lot
of things going on right now. Where do you stand
against your competitor? How are you going to bring home
the W?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Well, we are exactly where we need to be.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
Michigan is the center of the electoral universe right now
in this midterm, and we're excited. We have a tremendous candidate,
Mike Rogers, running for Senate. We have some amazing folks
running for re-election in Congress, a couple open seats.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
And we know... that a strong top of ticket Michigan
is not only.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Going to be good for Michigan, but it's also going
to be good for the rest of the nation. We
know that weak or toxic, toxic tickets drag down the
rest of the race and will put us in jeopardy
of holding our majority in Congress. And there's no telling
what actually there is. They communicated exactly what they're going
to do. They're going to lock up any progress. They're
going to impeach on day one. They're going to open
(19:58):
our borders, make D.C. a state and all kinds of
crazy things. And so this is common sense versus crazy.
We have the most extreme ticket in Michigan's history, and
we are standing up against socialism, And we are standing
up for the United States of America.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
John, it was good to see you recently. You know,
my wife is from Michigan, Oakland County area. I really,
really want to impress upon everybody out there listening right
now how important it is that you win this race,
how important it is that Mike Rogers win this race
as well. For people out there, Michigan has had Democrat control,
(20:32):
double Democrat senators, Democrat governor for the last eight plus years.
If you're upset right now about the direction of the country,
President Trump's last 18 months is not the reason Michiganders
are upset. What could you do to put Michigan on
the right track, and how would you make that clear,
that pitch? If you're unhappy in Michigan right now, it's
(20:53):
not about who the president is. It's about the choices
you've made in state government.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
That's correct.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Right now, Michigan is 42nd out of 50 in infrastructure,
43rd out of 50 in economy, 45th out of 50
in education. We're 46 out of 50. That means there
are 45 states doing better than us, and we all
have the same president. Right now, we have some of
the highest unemployment, highest taxes, and highest costs of living
in the entire Midwest, and they want.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
To blame other people. Well, that's not the case. That's
not reality.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
It's time for a change in Michigan. It is time
for a change, and the people have the opportunity to
vote for a combat veteran who has business experience and
will work with anyone to get resources back to the
state of Michigan. I'm excited for what the future holds,
especially when you have an extreme ticket that has literally
been failing at every single step, continuing to lie, and
(21:45):
would have an open doormat for socialism into our country.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Tell us about how you stack up to your competitor
when it comes to dealing with cost of living and
people being able to pay their bills, because we know
that's such a huge issue for all of the competitive states,
all the competitive elections coming up now in the midterms.
As we know, people are already voting in a lot
of states.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah, because you can't sue your way out of your problems.
I still think experience matters.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
And before you become the CEO of a state, I
don't know, maybe you should have run a successful business before.
Maybe you should understand what high taxes and burdensome regulation
and a and an extremely litigious environment that makes it
difficult for people to grow their businesses and be employed.
Maybe that's something that we should get away from. Trying
to weave into your affordability plan like my opponent has,
(22:32):
sneaky taxes and refusing to deal with the regulations that
make it difficult for people to be able to live
a peaceful and cheap life here in Michigan, those are
the types of things that are hurting. Right now, the
gas prices in Michigan are highest amongst our Midwestern friends
and neighbors. And even Jocelyn Benson, my opponent, stated just
(22:53):
last week that Ohio and Indiana are eating our lunch.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Well, guess what? Ohio and Indiana are run by Republican governors.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
And in fact, the fastest growing states are states that
are run by Republicans who have lower taxes and lower regulations,
where the fastest shrinking states are the ones that are
run by terrible Democrat policies. Again, Michigan flips back and
forth from Democrat to Republican every time we have an
open seat, and this year will.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Not be an exception.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
We're talking to John James. There's two big races going on.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
You know, this Senate race and the and the governor's race.
We saw Abdul El-Sayed struggle with black voters. In fact,
most black voters in the Democrat primary actually supported Haley Stevens.
What are you seeing out there there? You and I
were talking recently. I think there's a lot of men.
We were talking about the Lindsay Clancy case. There's a
(23:43):
lot of guys out there, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, that
are just over the BS. In fact, the one juror
who had the guts, who was enough of a hero
to stand up and say no, actually was a black
guy from Massachusetts, didn't surprise me. I don't think it
surprised you. Lots of guys out there, in particular of
(24:05):
all different backgrounds, are over this BS. Are you seeing
that in Michigan today? What would you say about that juror?
And how would you reach out to people regardless of
their background to support you there?
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Well, first of all, our hearts are still broken over
those three little angels who were murdered in cold blood.
And I want to applaud the gentleman who stood up
for the right thing. He did the right thing, thinking
more about those children than the political pressure and the
pressure he was getting in the room.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
He understood the truth and he did the right thing.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
And that's what's really missing right now in today's society,
by switching truth for lies and lies for truth. And
he stood up for truth on his convictions and did
the right thing. But right now, overall, people are just
sick of being told not to believe their eyes. People
are sick of being sold a bill of goods and
people are beginning to wake up. People in Detroit, for example,
know they've been under Democrat rule for over 60 years
(25:00):
and nothing has changed.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
In fact, things have gotten worse. I was raised in Detroit,
And the.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Same houses that I passed by as a little boy
that were burned during Devil's Night, I passed by an
adult as an adult.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
But there was a tree growing through it. Somebody needs
to do something.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
And the good Lord has blessed me enough that I
could step up and be able to fight for those
who can't fight for themselves and stand for those who
can't stand for themselves.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
And that's why I'm running. When you have things where
you are being able.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
To deliver excellent schools, safer streets, and a more affordable
Michigan with policies that actually work in the real world,
rather than these these ivory tower ideas from the coastal
elites that are completely detached from reality. These are the
types of things that people are beginning to wake up
and saying, enough, enough with the ideology, enough with the pandering.
(25:43):
And frankly, when you look at places like Detroit, Johnson
Benson was on the board of the SPLC, and this
is a group that funneled money to extremist groups like
the KKK. She also had two racial discrimination lawsuits against
her and has a court case against her for racial
gerrymandering in the city of Detroit. And so people are
beginning to open their eyes and say, oh my goodness,
(26:05):
we can recognize the difference between an opportunity with John
James or an opportunist with Jocelyn Benson.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
And people are giving us a shot.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
I've gone around with everyone from preachers to rappers, and
people are keeping an open mind. And I'm excited for
the opportunity to make sure that we bring prosperity to
everywhere around the state, but it's going to have a
disproportionate positive effect to people who've been disrespected, disregarded, and
disenfranchised for the longest period of time.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Congressman James, one of the stories that Clay and I
have been trying to publicize a lot, you know, we
just saw the president yesterday and we were talking about
what a great job FBI Director Patel has done and
the numbers speak for themselves. It shows quite clearly major
drops in violent crime, particularly in cities where the federal government,
using its resources like the FBI and other partner agencies,
(26:54):
have cracked down on violent crime, D.C., Memphis, other places
as well. Detroit has unfortunately for a long time had
a reputation as a rough and violent place. If you
become the governor of Michigan, are you looking to work
with the Trump administration and federal law enforcement partners to
bring something of a safety miracle to Detroit, bring the
(27:16):
murder rate down 30, 40, 50 percent as we've seen
in other places?
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I will work with anyone and everyone who's committed, as
I am, to making Michigan and Michiganders safer. I'm going
to start by working at the local level, by making
sure that we're bringing resources to the local level to
police our own streets. But then if there are resources
available to support, then we will request those resources as
they are needed. And I will work with anyone, Republicans, Democrats,
(27:43):
anywhere in between, because my job is to be governor
for all 10 million Michiganders, just like I served people
of different races, colors, and creeds in combat, just like
I serve my customers regardless of race, color, and creed
in business, and just like I'm serving every member of
my district in Michigan as a congressman. This is service
(28:03):
before self, and I'm excited for the opportunity to lead,
and I will avail myself of every resource to keep
my people safe.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
John James, I want you to tell us how we
can help you. And I said this to you when
I saw you most recently. Let me know when I
can come up and I will help you campaign to
get you over the finish line here. But I want
you to give a chance because I know you've introduced
yourself a lot, but there's still people who don't know
your background, don't know your story. Tell us about your service.
(28:30):
Tell us where people can go to sign up and
support and help you.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Well, I'm the result of the American dream.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
I'm the result of parents who came up from the
Jim Crow South who believed that Michigan would give them
a better life. But right now, I'm raising their grandchildren,
my children, who might have to leave Michigan to find it.
I think that's wrong. Right now, Michigan is the front lines,
the battlefield, and the midterms for the soul and the
future of our nation and of this republic.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
And if we fall to socialism right now in.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
This time, then Reagan's premonition will come true, that when
we get older, we will talk about when we used
to be a free nation. Right now, we have the
opportunity as Republicans to do what we've always done, We
have always marched to where the issues were. The Republican
Party is a party of emancipation. The Republican Party is
a party of women's suffrage. The Republican Party is a
(29:16):
party of the civil rights movement and criminal justice reform.
We just have to know our legacy and be able
to stand up in this time to be able to
free men from bondage and to save our state and
our country from socialism. So if you'd like to learn
more about what we have going on in Michigan on
the front lines for this nation into the midterms to
protect women, our majority in Congress, and to make sure
(29:36):
that we have free and fair elections in a swing
state like Michigan for the presidential then go to johnjamesmi.com
or follow me on socials at johnjamesmi we need to
spread the word we need to swamp the vote we
need to make it too big to rig and we
need to make sure that we save our republic.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Congressman james best of luck to you when you win
come back do a little victory dance here with us
on the show okay Sounds great.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 7 (30:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Thanks for being here. When is a good time to
buy gold as an investment? Maybe a better question to
ask is, well, what's the underlying thesis? Why invest in
gold in the first place? And one reason has everything
to do with the value of the dollars we put
into our savings account. The dollars we put aside lose
purchasing power. A dollar this year may only buy 95
cents next year. Ten years of that might see a
(30:24):
dollar being worth 60 cents on the dollar. That's inflation
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(31:32):
saving the country one liberal at a time.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Welcome back in, Clay and Buck. I want to play
Sonny Hostin, and then I want to get to Tom
in Idaho, who's a retired judge. A couple of different
legal issues that we were discussing. First here, Sonny Hostin
talking about this Cornell case.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And I can't believe I'm saying this, Buck, but.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I think I sign off, cosign on everything Sonny Hostin
is saying here.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Listen.
Speaker 6 (32:01):
The pictures of these young men who have not been charged,
not been adjudicated, are being plastered all over the Internet.
I think people are reporting this story inaccurately. I think
they're reporting it unfairly. And while this is something that
we have to take very seriously, there is no way.
according to her statement in 2024, that any prosecutor would
(32:21):
have brought.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Forth a case.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yeah, but she was intoxicated.
Speaker 7 (32:24):
How did she.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
Under New York law, again, under New York law, voluntary intoxication,
if you voluntarily drink 10 beers and you voluntarily ingest
But that intoxication. That doesn't have anything to do with
the fact that the guys attacked her, whether she's drunk
or not.
Speaker 7 (32:41):
No, no.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
According to her statement, she says she did. They did
not attack her. Her statement in 2024. My issues with this.
She consented to the sexual activity. She consented to it
according to her own. statement in 2024. Now I prosecuted
sex crimes for 10 years. I believe women. I am
not saying that we shouldn't believe her, but in 2024,
she said some one thing. And now in 2026, she's
(33:04):
saying another, I wonder what she is.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
This is what I was trying to pull up before clay,
just to make sure. And what she is saying, I
did check is true. This woman who is now claiming
she was gang raped initially said it was consensual to
the police that she consented to do the drugs and
she consented to have sex. That is what is on
the record right now. Now, she can go back and say,
and she has now brought a separate claim and say that, no,
(33:30):
it was actually a rape. But I will say two
things about this. One, Sonny Hostin's analysis there sounds entirely reasonable, astute,
and professional, which I think you and I are both
kind of, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, good for her.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Good for her.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
Right.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
No.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
When she says smart things, or rather when she's being accurate,
we're going to say she's being accurate. I think it's entirely...
Another part of this that I do think is interesting,
I just would note, as Sunny Hostin has come out
in defense, and I shouldn't say in defense, but has
the right approach to this case, which is to put
the stated facts out there, not all of the men
involved in this are white. That is also just something
(34:11):
to keep in mind. She is being very fair to
these people who have had this allegation against them, I
do wonder if she would be as fair if they
were seven white defendants.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
That is all I am saying. Do we know what
the race of the woman is? I don't know that. Yeah,
I don't know either.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Tom, I asked the question because we played this Lindsay
Clancy courtroom hearing today was frankly unprecedented. And I asked, hey,
defense lawyers out there, people in the legal community, Have
you ever heard of a case where the defense in
the first case is she lacked the mental capacity because
of her insanity to have committed the murder? You're admitting
(34:57):
that she did the murder. And now you're saying, well,
she may not have even done the murder at all.
And Tom in Idaho says he's a retired judge. 24
years you spent on the bench. Have you ever seen
a case like this?
Speaker 7 (35:11):
No, I haven't, Tom. Yeah, I probably had hundreds of
jury trials, and I've never seen an attorney do what
this attorney has done, and especially attacking a jury. Sure,
I would take a look at filing a bar complaint
against him, getting a lawyer to file a lawsuit against
him for defamation, intentional infliction of emotional distress. This lawyer
(35:36):
is disgusting.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Thank you for the call, Tom.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
When we come back tomorrow, let me just put a
pin in this because I think this conversation is going
to continue. We didn't play the juror who refused to
vote not guilty. He gave a statement. It was on
Fox News. I believe it was on Sean Hannity's show
last night. We'll talk about him some more tomorrow because
I do want to dive back into this. And for
everybody out there, we've got loaded lines right now. For
(36:06):
everybody out there, we're going to have more of a
conversation about this because I've never seen anything like this.
And I believe this story is going to grow potentially
in the next 24 hours. So we'll be back with
that and all of you tomorrow. Glad to have Buck
back in the co-riding seat here. And thanks again to
(36:28):
Admiral Flatley, and I hope your family at Arlington.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Thank you. Thank you very much, Clay. And on a
much less serious note, your hair looked really on point today, buddy.
Good job.
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