September 10, 2026 • 41 mins
Colin gives his reaction to the 49ers dominating the Rams in their opener in Australia on Netflix.
He argues that Kyle Shanahan has always given Sean McVay problems, and that the crowd in Melbourne gave the Niners a home-field advantage (2:00). He lauds the physicality and energy the 49ers played with, and compares performances of Brock Purdy and Matthew Stafford and argues that if the 49ers can stay healthy…they will be tough to beat (7:00).
He also previews the Eagles vs Commanders game (18:30).
Then, Colin is joined by Sophie Cunningham, WNBA star and host of the “No Hesitation” podcast on The Volume.
They start with the rumor mill swirling about her old podcast, why she thinks it’s all dumb and manufactured, and why she wanted to focus her podcast on the WNBA and basketball (25:00). They discuss the superstar qualities of Sophie’s teammate Caitlin Clark (28:15). They also talk about WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert’s struggles with being able to capitalize on the surge in popularity that Clark brought to the league and her lack of engagement with the players (30:00).
They discuss her status as both being the “tough girl” while also being the league’s “sex symbol” and she pushes back on the notion that you can’t be both girly and tough (33:30).
They break down why the WNBA level of play has improved so much from her first year in the league to now in year seven and the elevated level of athleticism players have now (38:45). They discuss her famous pointing gesture on the court that became a viral meme (41:00), and whether the Fever can win the title (43:00).
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(01:10):
All right, instant reaction plus a Sophie Cunningham interview, which
I think you should stick around for. So many thoughts
on this. I mean, I guess the Niners come away
out of this saying, you know, we got there a
week early. Look at our energy. The Niners had tremendous
energy on the defensive front, special teams, offensive energy. I mean,
(01:31):
their hitting tonight was intense. And I don't know if the—
You know, I don't know if the Rams were jet lagged.
I think it was, remember, Sean McVay, Rams coach, struggles
with two coaches, Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur. He has
combined nine for 15 against the two guys he coached
(01:54):
with in Washington. Kyle Shanahan has always given McVay problems.
Last year, Shanahan with Mack Jones beat the Rams. And
if you recall, in that game, the Rams didn't, have
to face Bosa or Kittle. And they lost to Mac Jones.
So Shanahan, who is a, you know, he is a
(02:17):
great play designer and a great play caller. He and
Sean Payton. Now, McVay's a great coach. He's the culture guy.
He's the energy guy. Shanahan's the play designer and the
play caller, like Sean Payton, play designer, play caller. and
in a season opener when nobody's playing in the preseason.
We saw it last year. The Patriots lost to the
(02:38):
Raiders in week one. They came out flat, and they
didn't play it in Melbourne, Australia. I don't know. Here's
what I know is that everybody's going to look at
this game and go, well, the Niners did it right.
They played with better energy. They got there a week early.
By the way, the crowd loved the Niners and appreciated
an American team coming over for a week and mingling
(02:59):
with the fans. They were cheered wildly. Now, the Niners
travel better than any NFL team. In the 70s and 80s,
the Pittsburgh Steelers fans traveled better than anybody. But, you know,
the world's changed, and San Francisco, the Bay Area, is
one of the richest places in the world. Their fans
have a lot of money. They're closer to Melbourne, and
that stadium looked like it was in Santa Clara. It
(03:21):
looked like it was 85% Niner fans. And apparently they
got wildly cheered in pregame, and the Rams got booed
because they showed up late. And that's... I don't think
that had anything to do with the outcome. But the
Niners fans travel. I've said this before. It's like in baseball.
Yankee fans are everywhere. When I was a kid growing up,
(03:44):
watching the Mariners, the Kingdome, there were Yankee fans everywhere.
That's the Niners. And I don't think East Coast people
really realize this. East Coast fans don't realize it. Niner
fans flood everywhere. any road game, especially Denver West. They're everywhere.
They take over your stadium. And again, there's a lot
of money in San Francisco, and they like traveling. So
(04:08):
not surprisingly, there were a lot more Niner fans. And
I think the people of Australia in that beautiful stadium
really appreciated it. But Sean McVay wins 66% of his
games as a coach. Against LeFleur and Shanahan, he wins 37%
of his games. So they had his number. And listen,
(04:31):
if you look at the Niners, nobody questions the Niners' talent,
their frontline talent. It's old and brittle. I mean, Mike
Evans will eventually get banged up, right? George Kittle will
eventually get banged up. But when you watch Bosa and
Fred Warner and Greenlaw, they are monsters. I mean, they
(04:53):
are physically monsters. The Niners hit so hard. That's the
one thing that jumped out to me where it looked
like it was an advantage. The juice and the hitting
and the physicality of the Niners was just insane in
this game. In fact, you forget this because Bosa gets
(05:14):
hurt a lot. Remarkable player, Hall of Fame level player
gets hurt a lot. The Niners defense when Bosa is
healthy in 2019 was second. In 2021 was third. In
2022 was first. In 2023 was eighth. In 2024 was eighth.
When Bose is healthy, this is an elite defense. And
(05:36):
they bring Greenlaw back. And he and Warner, the physicality
was jumped through the television. And the Rams are an
interesting team. The one thing about the Rams... Brock Purdy
gives you all sorts of versatility in terms of bootlegging
and running. Drake May showed you a little bit of
(05:57):
that last night. Sam Darnold can give you a little
bit of that. Ideally, you'd like your quarterback to be
more mobile than Goff or Stafford. I mean, you would.
I mean, Brock Purdy, you like, you know, Brock Purdy's
advantage over Mac Jones isn't necessarily just from the pocket.
It's that he can move. And he ran very well. Again,
had great energy, good play calling, had the Rams fooled.
(06:19):
I think the part about the Rams that was disappointing
was their defensive front. And this is a division rivalry.
It's Shanahan against McVay. And the Niners have been hearing
all offseason, the Rams are the greatest team ever assembled.
And it pisses them off. And you're talking about a
lot of prideful veterans. I mean, that San Francisco team
(06:41):
has got a lot of dudes and a lot of pride.
And that coaching staff has been hearing how great the
Rams are. And they wanted to jam it right up
LA's you-know-what. And they did. And I mean, it's interesting, though,
when you look at the Rams, they're a fascinating team.
Whereas the Seahawks, you kind of feel like you get
the same team every week. They can be reckless. They
(07:04):
can have penalties. They're young. But Seattle's an amazing road team.
They're an amazing home team. You kind of get the
same Seahawks. They don't always play clean, but they just
win 15 of their last 16 games. The Rams last
year were a great team, yet they only scored 14
points against the Texans. They lost to the banged-up Niners.
(07:24):
They lost to the Panthers. And they lost to the
Atlanta Falcons. I mean, the Rams are a little odd.
that sometimes they just have these games that they're just uninspiring. Again,
you don't get a lot of athletic juice out of Stafford,
out of the pocket. If you have an elite corner
(07:46):
that can slow down Puka, Devontae Adams didn't do much
in this one. So I guess my big takeaway is
The Niners looked to have more energy. They were more physical.
I mean, the first drive of the game by San
Francisco was artwork. It was just beautiful. They settled for
a field goal. But, I mean, it was– they had
(08:08):
the Niners– the Niners had the Rams guessing the entire drive.
And I just don't think– I mean, listen, if you're
a Niner fan or you're a Niner staffer or a player,
you will watch that film and say it tracks everything.
We were here, we were rested, we had the time
zone figured out, and that's going to be used from
(08:30):
this point forward. Everybody's going to point to that game,
whether it's true or not, and go, yeah, that's the difference.
The other thing that is really clear, and again, you
cross your fingers on his health. Mike Evans, to me,
is a Hall of Famer. I don't know what his
numbers are offhand, but he's a Hall of Famer. You're
not going to get 17 games out of him, but
it was so obvious he's Brock Purdy's guy now. He
(08:55):
is to Purdy what Puka is to Matt Stafford. And
Evans is such a tremendous red zone target because he's
got such extreme catching length and radius. And as good
as like a Trent McDuffie is, Trent McDuffie is small corner.
He's not a big, long corner. So this was all 49ers.
(09:22):
Where Colin was wrong, I guess maybe it's because I've
never liked staying in a hotel for a week, unless
it's on my terms and it's a resort with my
wife near a beach. But like work trips, you know,
like I used to go when I first got into
this business, you go to the Super Bowl, you know,
you fly out on a Sunday morning and you'd stay
(09:42):
to the Super Bowl. And the longer I worked in
the business, I'm like, can we leave like Wednesday? Can
I leave after the Friday show and watch it on TV?
I don't love long business trips. I like going on vacation,
but I don't like long business trips. And maybe that
bias bleeds over to my show. I'm like flying, do
the work, get out. But I don't think there's any
(10:03):
question you couldn't watch that game. And you could not
deny the fact that the Niners played with unbelievable physicality,
unbelievable juice. I mean, to the very last series. They
looked like Seattle last night. They could have played another quarter.
And the Rams just were flat. They were flat against
Atlanta last year. One of the Carolina games, they weren't flat.
(10:27):
They just didn't play that well. But remember, Stafford has
these games. I mean, against Houston. You know, Stafford has
these games where he can get a little reckless. He
doesn't feel real comfortable. He misses open throws. And the Niners'
defensive front was much, much more impressive than the Rams'
(10:52):
highly anticipated defensive front. I mean, Miles Garrett was a
complete non-factor. So I look. at the numbers for Brock Purdy,
passer rating over 105, three touchdowns. His interception was early.
Carnell Lake made a nice play on it. Sometimes interceptions
are just nice, deceptive plays by defenders. Not every interception
(11:13):
is a horrible throw. McCaffrey averaged seven and a half
yards of carry. Mike Evans, six catches. I mean, it's impressive.
They didn't use Kittle a lot. They didn't really have to. God,
Fred Warner was all over the field. God, how good
is he? Warner had 10 tackles. Greenlaw had seven. Boy,
(11:38):
those guys are something else. And I got to tell you,
linebacker is one of those positions that you can be
effective as a rookie. And there've been a lot of great,
I mean, Ray Lewis as a rookie was very effective.
But when you watch Warner and Greenlaw, Just think about
all the Niner practices they've been at. Think of all
(11:59):
the Shanahan play calling and play design they faced. Man,
when I watch Greenlaw and Warner, you are talking about
two guys who are so instinctive. They just sniff out plays.
You can't, I don't care how talented a rookie linebacker is. Man,
(12:20):
think about how many guys Niner practices Fred Warner has
been at. And Warner's a super smart guy anyway. But
when I watch Fred Warner, you're talking about a guy
that just sniffs the play out. Like he is planting
his foot a third of a second after the ball
(12:41):
is snapped. And again, they play the Rams regularly. You know,
the Rams didn't bring a lot of tricks into this game.
You know, they're going to go with Puka. You know,
they love Kyron Williams. I thought Blake Corham looked pretty good.
He didn't do much his rookie year, and then he
broke his hand. I thought Blake Corham looked decent. He's
got a burst. But this is why the NFL is great.
(13:04):
We talked about it this week. We said there's going
to be surprising outcomes in week one. I think we
would have to admit this was a surprising outcome. It
was a three-point spread. If the Niners would have won 27-24,
nobody's shocked. Again, Shanahan's had great success against McVay. But
the manner in which they hammered the lifeless Rams, I
(13:25):
think that is one of our shocks. And now when
you're the Niners, you've got Miami and Arizona next. So
you're feeling pretty good about it. I mean, think about this.
Had Drake May not thrown that interception, the Niners would
be in first place and the Seahawks and the Rams
would be 0-1. So listen, San Francisco, it's a very
(13:49):
long season. Your concern, if you're San Francisco, is the
Rams and the Seahawks are young and are deep. They
are built for a long season. The weather gets cold.
San Francisco can be great on any given day. But man,
Trent Williams and Kittle and McCaffrey and Warner and Greenlaw,
(14:12):
there is a lot of miles. They've already lost a
defensive tackle on Ricky Pearsall for the season. There's a
lot of miles. Mike Evans. with some of those Niners.
So you cross your fingers, keep them away from the substation.
You hope they can remain healthy. But this was a
butt-kicking tonight. Am I surprised by the outcome? Absolutely. These
(14:35):
guys usually play close football games, too. Shanahan's a great coach.
Sometimes he can get a little too glued to his
play sheet. We've talked about this before, where sometimes the
Niners come out with a a game plan. And if
it doesn't work effectively early, he just stays tied to
the play sheet. He can be a little, I don't
(14:55):
know if the word is stubborn or rigid. He just
loves his play sheet. That's his Bible. Whereas McVay will
tear stuff up at halftime and start over. That's, I mean,
McVay changed his total offense like two years ago, and
now he's got four and five tight ends on the roster.
That's not Shanahan. He does what he does. His dad
did what he did. And he can get tied to
(15:17):
that play sheet, but it was humming tonight. They had
the Rams guessing. They were more physical. Brock Purdy was wiggling, throwing.
Looked great. Brock Purdy looked great tonight. And he, you know,
I know you think I all hate him. And I
don't like Jalen Hurds. And I don't like Baker Mayfield.
They're all very good starting quarterbacks in the NFL. I
thought tonight Brock played exceptional football. And again, Stafford got
(15:41):
off a plane. Stafford, here's the new environment. You know,
Brock Purdy's been there for a week. And there's, you know.
There is something to be said about when you go
on the road, it's almost like a retreat. When you
go on the road with your brothers for that long,
(16:01):
it's a bonding experience. That doesn't mean you get along
all the time, but in athletics, chemistry, brotherhood, trust is
really important. But I think more than anything, I was
just blown away by the physicality and the juice the
(16:22):
Niners had. It jumped off the television. I mean, you
can't deny. I prefer the Rams fly-in, fly-out technique. Undeniable,
the physical and energy advantage San Francisco had. That is
without question was the most jarring part of tonight's streamcast
(16:48):
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(17:08):
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(17:34):
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Polymarket Clearing, the CFTC-regulated exchange and clearing organization. All right,
about Three months ago, I called Logan Swaim and Logan
runs our content for the volume. And I was checking
(20:48):
and I call Logan every week and just kind of
update me on the gripes, positive, negative. And I asked him, hey,
how's Sophie and Wes doing on the podcast? And this
was probably three months, maybe two and a half, maybe
three and a half. And he said, I think Sophie
(21:12):
wants to talk more basketball. She loves Wes. You guys
are still close. But she wants to talk more basketball
because the WNBA is getting really popular and she plays
with the superstar in the league. And so when you guys–
your podcast took a hiatus, there was a lot of
(21:33):
speculation on the interweb about what it was. And I–
As somebody who's founded The Volume, I get a kick
out of speculation. And so I just let things play
out because actually it's good for our business when people
are talking about The Volume. And so what Sophie was
(21:54):
doing was rebuilding her podcast, which is now called No Hesitation.
And her co-host is Drew Hanlon, her shooting coach, very well-known,
very highly regarded. So when you were hearing, Sophie, you're
rolling your eyes. When you were hearing, oh, this is controversial.
(22:15):
My reaction was, oh, God, this is funny. In fact,
I had texted you. But what was your reaction to it?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It's just dumb. Like, it's just dumb.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And, like, I think, you know, before you kind of
have this platform and before you're kind of in the spotlight,
you know, maybe I would have believed some of those
stories or, like, would.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Have got caught up in the gossip. But now that
I'm on this side of it, I'm like... All these
news outlets are just fake. They're all fraud. Nothing is real.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And I think honestly, that is why I wanted to
kind of, first of all, I thought of a, you know,
this WNBA great business opportunity. Like there is no really
good WNBA, NBA podcast, really WNBA podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
That strictly talk about basketball and like all the great
things that it.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Has in the WBA. And so I was like, why
are we not talking more like this? And so I
loved West. I think we had a really fun time together.
I know that he's off doing great things too, but
you know, he was going through some stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Then I was going through some stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Everything was very, you know, main media for both of
us for a little bit. So I think a lot
of people thought that we were going at it. We've
really weren't, we were just rebranding. He was going to
do his own thing. The volume was going to take
care of him. I wanted to go more basketball. And
so when I first thought, I was like, this is
so goofy. And like, we sent stuff back and forth.
Me and Weston were like, these people are just dumb.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
So it was fun. I still love Weston Death and
I had a great time with him.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Well, I mean, let's just say this was the NBA
and Caitlin Clark- came into the league and I've compared
her to Michael Jordan, where she literally changed the direction
of the league. You would think it would make sense
to talk about Michael Jordan then or Caitlin Clark. Now
you play with the league superstar. You know what, you know,
(23:55):
I've said she has a Jordan quality where she literally
changes the ratings. She has a Steph Curry quality in
that she shoots like we've never seen in her sport.
She also has a Larry Bird quality, which is she
kind of gets pissy. And she's physical and she's pissy and...
There's a Midwest toughness to her, and I think it
(24:18):
can rub people, including WNBA rivals, the wrong way. I
look at her and I think she's got Jordan's ascension,
Curry's game, and Larry Bird's personality. Am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
No, I don't think you are.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I think that Larry Bird, honestly, might have a little
bit more sass and a little bit more... Like Caitlin
is just her own, her own personality, like especially off
the court. Like she is strictly basketball. She loves to
sit on the couch. She loves to watch TV. She's
very simple. I don't know Larry Bird, but I doubt that.
I bet he was a little bit more fun off
the court.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I don't know if you know that.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I don't know. You know, they called him the hick
from French lick. So I think he was basically all basketball, too.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But, you know, I think it's been a blessing that
she has been in our league. I think the talent
has always been there in our league. But just like
the eyes and the platform and how she's transforming our game.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Like, we can be thankful for the people who came
before us, but you can also.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Witness greatness and say that she is great and she
has done so much for our sport right now.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And I don't know why people are so... reluctant to
give her her flowers.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And maybe it is that Midwest mentality that people don't like,
but shit, I love it.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I'm from Missouri. So I'm like, Hey, bring it on sister.
So I'm a big fan.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
You know, I, I said this about Kathy Engelbert. I said,
I've worked in broadcasting for 40 years. I've been very lucky.
I've had very, very good bosses, but not all my
bosses have been great. And I said, and you were
publicly critical of Kathy Engelbert. And my take was when
the league wasn't making money, And it was growing, but slowly,
(25:52):
kind of methodically, she was fine. And then literally in
15 to 18 months, the league exploded. It's beating hockey.
It's beating baseball. And now we need a new commissioner.
And that's not that she's not capable, but it's just like-
I mean, Kathy, it's the volume slowly grew. If the
(26:15):
volume went from what it was the first week to
Spotify in a month, we would be over our skis.
And I think part of what Kathy struggled with, the
league is so popular, so big, so many eyes. It
needs fresh management and fresh leadership. Is that that feels fair?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I think it's very fair. And truly, I hate to
be critical because I know that job is so tough.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And anyone who's in that position, you're going to get
loved and you're going to get hated. And so you
need someone who has a backbone, who is bold, who
is courageous, who is going to try to unify.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I think the WNBA is such.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
a spot where it's really easy to be diverse, but
you need a leader who's going to come in here
and give us a common goal and unite people. And
I think our biggest thing as players, I'll just say myself,
I don't want to speak for other players, but I
do know this is the conversations we've had, is we
want a commissioner who, first of all, wants to engage
(27:16):
in our players.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
We need to have a conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm telling you, if we were in a room and
she walked in, She wouldn't even say hi to us.
She would just go do her own thing. It's like,
this is a player's league. So have a relationship with
your players being communication. Like, yes, you will like work
for the owners, but at the same time, we're both
trying to grow this league and make it bigger and
better than ever. And so, you know, I think you're right.
I think when she first came in the league, she
was doing an OK job. She made some good business
(27:41):
decisions for us. But once we exploded, I just don't
think that she was ready for it. I don't know
if anyone would have been ready for it. But I
think our biggest thing is we want a commissioner who
is going to fight for us, who's going to have
a relationship with us, who is going to listen to
us so we can work and work together.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
And I just don't think that we have that relationship
whatsoever with Kathy.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, I think I don't know how many people know
this during covid. Adam Silver was on the phone with
LeBron James every other day. So Adam Silver has always
leaned on his star players for guidance. Remember, during COVID,
there were players, Dwight Howard, Kyrie Irving, that were saying,
shut it down. And Adam would listen. But he really
(28:24):
listened to LeBron James.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
And I think that and I don't think that's a
I don't think that is a I don't think that's
a weakness. Rob Manfred. Oh, I think Rob Manfred, the
baseball commissioner, really wants to raise the floor of salaries
for not necessarily cap them at the high end as
much as raise the floor. He wants players to make money.
(28:48):
He just doesn't, he doesn't want one payroll to be
80 million and one to be 450 million. So I
don't know. I Roger, I've seen Roger Goodell with players
like they're close. Roger calls and talks to star players
all the time. The it is, it is interesting. And
I'm going to throw this at you. I'm asking, I mean,
I'm close with my sister. I have my daughter and
(29:13):
two stepdaughters. I was closer to my mom than my dad,
although I love my dad, but I was closer to
my mom. So I've always felt the volume. We have
a lot of women in management. And so I think
I sort of get sometimes the sensibility of women, right?
My wife's very strong, very opinionated. But this question's different.
(29:35):
And if you're offended, you can virally smack me. But
when you... are kind of viewed a little bit, and
I don't know any other term, a little bit as
the league's... Just say it.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Sex symbol.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Is that fair? Oh, hey, that is way better.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I thought you were going to go somewhere completely different
with this, so I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But my take is you lean into it a little bit.
You're an interesting contradiction. You're tough. You'll fight anybody. You'll
taunt anybody. But you'll make sure coming into the arena,
I look good and I want you to know I
look good. Tell me how you view that. Are you
conflicted or is that is that just like, hey, it's
(30:21):
I mean, Dennis Rodman was wearing a dress. It was
good for everybody. Right. How do you and I don't
know if that's semi offensive, but how.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Do you view that? It's not. It's not for me.
Maybe some people take it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
And I think for me.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
The reason why I really lean into that is, first
of all, I have always been super girly. Since a
little girl, I've always loved to dress up.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I love dresses. I love high heels.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I love all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And for some reason, our society, if you play basketball,
you can't dress that.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Way or you can't be girly.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
No one's ever said it, but it's like the kind
of feel that you can't be both.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Screw all that. Yes, you can.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
You can be girly and you can go out and
kick someone's ass. Like, I love that combination. And I'm
not just going to say that. I also think on
the other side, you can go and dress a little
more masculine and go out there and still kick ass. Like,
there's not one way to do it right. And so
for me, I just I know my lane. I'm going
to stay in my lane. But I also know that
I have a lot of young girls who are girly,
(31:22):
who are raised like I was. who have aspirations to
be where I'm at that they're like, Oh, well, can I,
can I do both? Can I still be girly and
get my nails done and have my hair done and
dress up and, you know, kind of look real hot
coming into a game and they go be sweaty and
work hard.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yes, you can. And so I feel like that I
am just showing that you can have both.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And for girls who are wavering in their confidence, first
of all, if you look good.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You play good typically is how it goes.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And so I will also say when I first got
into the league, like I, Tunnally, like we weren't dressing up.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I was literally wearing kind of what I wore to bed.
Like you were just rolling up in sweats and like sweatshirts,
like pajamas. Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
But now that we have so many eyes on everything
that we do, why would I not, you know, maximize
my opportunity?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Because if people are seeing how I dress, well, guess what?
That's business.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Now clothing brands are coming in and sending me clothes
and wanting to work with me. And so I have
a very kind of business mindset at times. But at
the end of the day, I also just like to
be a girl and I like to dress up and
I like to look a certain way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
By the way, I had a co-worker probably five years ago,
beautiful person. And they were getting makeup on and we
were talking about this and I said, there is a
reason Tom Brady wears beautiful suits and has his hair
styled and looks, it looks like a model when he's
(32:47):
on the air. It's okay for both sexes to want
to look good. You're a public figure. I'm in TV.
I wear makeup. Otherwise I'd be hideous to look at.
I get my hair fixed, right? Like, so my take
is people shouldn't be offended by that. You guys are brands, right?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
When they do cereal commercials, that's not milk. They're trying
to make that, you know what I mean? Like they're
trying to make that look as white as possible. And,
you know, like putting glue in it. It's like, guys,
this is all about marketing and branding outside of just
the strict basketball. Years ago, James Harden, I forget what
the team was. Maybe it was the Rockets. They had
(33:26):
a runway and the guys all came out.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Who gives a shit? I think it's fun. No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And at the end of the day, you said it perfectly.
All my friends and family, that is like game days.
And like when I have to be on TV or
when I have to do photo shoots or stuff for sponsors,
that is the best that I will look. Otherwise, I literally...
damn near look homeless. And I barely wear makeup. I
barely brush my hair. And so those are my days
to have my shit together. And so I I'm right
(33:53):
there with you, but I do think it's fun. And
I think the males like it. I think us females
really like it. And so, um, I think it's just
the fun part of sport that you get to see
kind of our style and what we like outside of
the field, outside of the court, uh, and the fans
love it.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
So why would we not do it?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
You've been in the league, how many years, six years,
seven years, seven.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Oh God, I'm getting old. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Seven. So I've said this on the air. Um, Outside
of baseball, you guys run sort of unopposed in the summer.
And when I fly around and grab the clicker, I
think your sport is very clicky. I think it's very
sticky that I probably two dozen times during the summer
landed on a WNBA game. And I've said this, the
(34:31):
quality of play is so much better. The passing. The
ball handling, it's more of a vertical sport than it
was 10 years ago. Go to your first year and
go to now. What part of the basketball to you
is like significantly better? Because I still hate the officiating,
(34:52):
but what part of the basketball to you is next
level compared to even seven years ago?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah. Um, the girls are just so athletic. Like you
would have, I feel like the women's basketball, you've always
had to have pretty much a very, um, high IQ fundamental. Um, yes,
you still have to be athletic and you're probably more
athletic than your average, but the, the girls nowadays, and like,
I say this in like the most respect, this is
(35:19):
like probably the highest compliment you can get. Like there
are girls coming out of college who play like dudes.
Just the way they move, the way they are quick
with the ball, their skill set. Me, I'm like, oh, shit,
I got to guard that. I just like staying around
the three-point line and then shoot my shot. Someone else
guard that. You really see the athleticism really changing.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
People can dunk. People are fast as hell. It's like
Olivia Miles.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
She is a repeat.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
She's killing it. She literally plays like a dude.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That is no disrespect. That is one of the highest
compliments you could ever get. I Um, you just see
more and more.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Girls like that.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
The, um, Sophie, when, when we, uh, hired you at
the volume and in my take was, um, the league,
the quality of play was good and getting better, but it,
there is something to be said about being a provocateur
and many times the best players aren't Rodman wasn't, um,
(36:19):
but he knew what he was. Um, When you pointed
the finger and did that gesture, I thought it was hilarious.
The amazing thing, it became like this massive meme. Did
you ever just sit and go... I mean, I don't
know if you had... Was that spontaneous? Yes.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I am just.
I am just sassy and I don't give a flying F.
I just, I just, just who I am. And so
I've kind of mastered it getting in people's heads and
I get it.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
I've had teammates who I played against. They're like, we
freaking hated you. But then once I'm on the same team,
people are like, oh, you're actually so cool.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
And we love you. Like we love you as a team.
I'm like, yeah, duh. Like I just who I am.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And so when that happened, you know, I just got
in the other girl's head and she got mad that
I was pointing a finger and she got like mad mad.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
And so I was like, shouldn't have done that. Like
once I saw I gotcha, I gotcha. And so then
I just kept it there. And so it did go viral.
It was like all over the world.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
For two weeks.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Oh, yeah. And I walk around now and like when
people ask for photos like last year, it's like, hey,
can you put me in a headlock?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And now this year it's like, hey, can you point
at me? And I'm like, what am I doing? Stick
with basketball. But it's part of the game. So who cares?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
If the Fever offensively, you're the best team in the league.
But if the Fever play their very best brand of basketball,
can they win the title? I think you have the
fifth best record or fourth right now. I think we're
at fifth, yeah. Is there, what is missing to be
the first?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I think consistency.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And I think us as a team, we know that
when we are clicking, I don't think anyone can beat us,
but are you going to, are you going to get
that version of us that night? And I also think
defensively we struggle. I think we're at like 11th or
10th and that is, that's not good whatsoever. And yes,
we're able to outscore opponents, but playoffs are a different
(38:17):
ball game. It's a different type of beast and you
got to shore up on your defense and you Um,
I know in the W, uh, the last, I'm pretty
sure like six teams who have won it, they've all
been top three or four, um, maybe besides one in,
in defense and the ratings of defense.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
And we're just not there.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And so, um, during this break, we're on a two
week break because people are playing in, uh, the, the
FIFA stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
FIBA.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
FIBA.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah. Right. Yes. Clearly I'm not over there, but we're,
we're working on our defense and we're shoring up on that.
And so I think if we can just get a little,
a little bit better defensively, then yeah. I mean, I
wouldn't want to play us in, in the playoffs and
we have the experience. We, we definitely have all the
offensive threats you could ask for. And so we're a
(38:59):
dangerous team, but again, there's a lot of dangerous teams.
So it's, it's the little, the little details.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You do understand though, that getting booed and getting cat
calls is actually a great. Outside of Jordan, most of
the best players in my life in sports were hated
in every arena except their own. I don't know. I
(39:24):
think Draymond Green lives for it. I mean, I've heard,
I've talked to pro athletes my whole life. They're like,
I'd never say this publicly. I love winning on the
road more than at home.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
It's the best.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
And they'll never say it because they don't want to
tick off the fans. But my take is when you
go into a rival arena and they give you shit,
it must be unbelievable to walk out with a W.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Oh, it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I think both sides when we're here at game bridge,
it's so much fun because our fans are awesome that like,
you know, you just feel leaving good and that you
put on a good show for them. But there is
something special about, especially this year going into a different
arena and like, everyone knows it. I get booed 24 seven.
If I touch the ball, I get booed. Like it's,
(40:09):
it's just what it is. And the thing is, I
fucking love that shit.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I love it. Like bring it on. And I think
people don't know that people don't know that I love that.
And I thrive off of that.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
And so there is a extra good feeling about everyone
hating you. And then you guys walking out with a,
with a dub and like smiling and having fun and
getting on the bus and going home or going to
the next game.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
So it's a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
No hesitation, Sophie Cunningham. We love her at the volume
and it's great to finally talk to you.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yes, it's been a minute. We need to do this
more often. We love you.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
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Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(01:10):
All right, instant reaction plus a Sophie Cunningham interview, which
I think you should stick around for. So many thoughts
on this. I mean, I guess the Niners come away
out of this saying, you know, we got there a
week early. Look at our energy. The Niners had tremendous
energy on the defensive front, special teams, offensive energy. I mean,
(01:31):
their hitting tonight was intense. And I don't know if the—
You know, I don't know if the Rams were jet lagged.
I think it was, remember, Sean McVay, Rams coach, struggles
with two coaches, Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur. He has
combined nine for 15 against the two guys he coached
(01:54):
with in Washington. Kyle Shanahan has always given McVay problems.
Last year, Shanahan with Mack Jones beat the Rams. And
if you recall, in that game, the Rams didn't, have
to face Bosa or Kittle. And they lost to Mac Jones.
So Shanahan, who is a, you know, he is a
(02:17):
great play designer and a great play caller. He and
Sean Payton. Now, McVay's a great coach. He's the culture guy.
He's the energy guy. Shanahan's the play designer and the
play caller, like Sean Payton, play designer, play caller. and
in a season opener when nobody's playing in the preseason.
We saw it last year. The Patriots lost to the
(02:38):
Raiders in week one. They came out flat, and they
didn't play it in Melbourne, Australia. I don't know. Here's
what I know is that everybody's going to look at
this game and go, well, the Niners did it right.
They played with better energy. They got there a week early.
By the way, the crowd loved the Niners and appreciated
an American team coming over for a week and mingling
(02:59):
with the fans. They were cheered wildly. Now, the Niners
travel better than any NFL team. In the 70s and 80s,
the Pittsburgh Steelers fans traveled better than anybody. But, you know,
the world's changed, and San Francisco, the Bay Area, is
one of the richest places in the world. Their fans
have a lot of money. They're closer to Melbourne, and
that stadium looked like it was in Santa Clara. It
(03:21):
looked like it was 85% Niner fans. And apparently they
got wildly cheered in pregame, and the Rams got booed
because they showed up late. And that's... I don't think
that had anything to do with the outcome. But the
Niners fans travel. I've said this before. It's like in baseball.
Yankee fans are everywhere. When I was a kid growing up,
(03:44):
watching the Mariners, the Kingdome, there were Yankee fans everywhere.
That's the Niners. And I don't think East Coast people
really realize this. East Coast fans don't realize it. Niner
fans flood everywhere. any road game, especially Denver West. They're everywhere.
They take over your stadium. And again, there's a lot
of money in San Francisco, and they like traveling. So
(04:08):
not surprisingly, there were a lot more Niner fans. And
I think the people of Australia in that beautiful stadium
really appreciated it. But Sean McVay wins 66% of his
games as a coach. Against LeFleur and Shanahan, he wins 37%
of his games. So they had his number. And listen,
(04:31):
if you look at the Niners, nobody questions the Niners' talent,
their frontline talent. It's old and brittle. I mean, Mike
Evans will eventually get banged up, right? George Kittle will
eventually get banged up. But when you watch Bosa and
Fred Warner and Greenlaw, they are monsters. I mean, they
(04:53):
are physically monsters. The Niners hit so hard. That's the
one thing that jumped out to me where it looked
like it was an advantage. The juice and the hitting
and the physicality of the Niners was just insane in
this game. In fact, you forget this because Bosa gets
(05:14):
hurt a lot. Remarkable player, Hall of Fame level player
gets hurt a lot. The Niners defense when Bosa is
healthy in 2019 was second. In 2021 was third. In
2022 was first. In 2023 was eighth. In 2024 was eighth.
When Bose is healthy, this is an elite defense. And
(05:36):
they bring Greenlaw back. And he and Warner, the physicality
was jumped through the television. And the Rams are an
interesting team. The one thing about the Rams... Brock Purdy
gives you all sorts of versatility in terms of bootlegging
and running. Drake May showed you a little bit of
(05:57):
that last night. Sam Darnold can give you a little
bit of that. Ideally, you'd like your quarterback to be
more mobile than Goff or Stafford. I mean, you would.
I mean, Brock Purdy, you like, you know, Brock Purdy's
advantage over Mac Jones isn't necessarily just from the pocket.
It's that he can move. And he ran very well. Again,
had great energy, good play calling, had the Rams fooled.
(06:19):
I think the part about the Rams that was disappointing
was their defensive front. And this is a division rivalry.
It's Shanahan against McVay. And the Niners have been hearing
all offseason, the Rams are the greatest team ever assembled.
And it pisses them off. And you're talking about a
lot of prideful veterans. I mean, that San Francisco team
(06:41):
has got a lot of dudes and a lot of pride.
And that coaching staff has been hearing how great the
Rams are. And they wanted to jam it right up
LA's you-know-what. And they did. And I mean, it's interesting, though,
when you look at the Rams, they're a fascinating team.
Whereas the Seahawks, you kind of feel like you get
the same team every week. They can be reckless. They
(07:04):
can have penalties. They're young. But Seattle's an amazing road team.
They're an amazing home team. You kind of get the
same Seahawks. They don't always play clean, but they just
win 15 of their last 16 games. The Rams last
year were a great team, yet they only scored 14
points against the Texans. They lost to the banged-up Niners.
(07:24):
They lost to the Panthers. And they lost to the
Atlanta Falcons. I mean, the Rams are a little odd.
that sometimes they just have these games that they're just uninspiring. Again,
you don't get a lot of athletic juice out of Stafford,
out of the pocket. If you have an elite corner
(07:46):
that can slow down Puka, Devontae Adams didn't do much
in this one. So I guess my big takeaway is
The Niners looked to have more energy. They were more physical.
I mean, the first drive of the game by San
Francisco was artwork. It was just beautiful. They settled for
a field goal. But, I mean, it was– they had
(08:08):
the Niners– the Niners had the Rams guessing the entire drive.
And I just don't think– I mean, listen, if you're
a Niner fan or you're a Niner staffer or a player,
you will watch that film and say it tracks everything.
We were here, we were rested, we had the time
zone figured out, and that's going to be used from
(08:30):
this point forward. Everybody's going to point to that game,
whether it's true or not, and go, yeah, that's the difference.
The other thing that is really clear, and again, you
cross your fingers on his health. Mike Evans, to me,
is a Hall of Famer. I don't know what his
numbers are offhand, but he's a Hall of Famer. You're
not going to get 17 games out of him, but
it was so obvious he's Brock Purdy's guy now. He
(08:55):
is to Purdy what Puka is to Matt Stafford. And
Evans is such a tremendous red zone target because he's
got such extreme catching length and radius. And as good
as like a Trent McDuffie is, Trent McDuffie is small corner.
He's not a big, long corner. So this was all 49ers.
(09:22):
Where Colin was wrong, I guess maybe it's because I've
never liked staying in a hotel for a week, unless
it's on my terms and it's a resort with my
wife near a beach. But like work trips, you know,
like I used to go when I first got into
this business, you go to the Super Bowl, you know,
you fly out on a Sunday morning and you'd stay
(09:42):
to the Super Bowl. And the longer I worked in
the business, I'm like, can we leave like Wednesday? Can
I leave after the Friday show and watch it on TV?
I don't love long business trips. I like going on vacation,
but I don't like long business trips. And maybe that
bias bleeds over to my show. I'm like flying, do
the work, get out. But I don't think there's any
(10:03):
question you couldn't watch that game. And you could not
deny the fact that the Niners played with unbelievable physicality,
unbelievable juice. I mean, to the very last series. They
looked like Seattle last night. They could have played another quarter.
And the Rams just were flat. They were flat against
Atlanta last year. One of the Carolina games, they weren't flat.
(10:27):
They just didn't play that well. But remember, Stafford has
these games. I mean, against Houston. You know, Stafford has
these games where he can get a little reckless. He
doesn't feel real comfortable. He misses open throws. And the Niners'
defensive front was much, much more impressive than the Rams'
(10:52):
highly anticipated defensive front. I mean, Miles Garrett was a
complete non-factor. So I look. at the numbers for Brock Purdy,
passer rating over 105, three touchdowns. His interception was early.
Carnell Lake made a nice play on it. Sometimes interceptions
are just nice, deceptive plays by defenders. Not every interception
(11:13):
is a horrible throw. McCaffrey averaged seven and a half
yards of carry. Mike Evans, six catches. I mean, it's impressive.
They didn't use Kittle a lot. They didn't really have to. God,
Fred Warner was all over the field. God, how good
is he? Warner had 10 tackles. Greenlaw had seven. Boy,
(11:38):
those guys are something else. And I got to tell you,
linebacker is one of those positions that you can be
effective as a rookie. And there've been a lot of great,
I mean, Ray Lewis as a rookie was very effective.
But when you watch Warner and Greenlaw, Just think about
all the Niner practices they've been at. Think of all
(11:59):
the Shanahan play calling and play design they faced. Man,
when I watch Greenlaw and Warner, you are talking about
two guys who are so instinctive. They just sniff out plays.
You can't, I don't care how talented a rookie linebacker is. Man,
(12:20):
think about how many guys Niner practices Fred Warner has
been at. And Warner's a super smart guy anyway. But
when I watch Fred Warner, you're talking about a guy
that just sniffs the play out. Like he is planting
his foot a third of a second after the ball
(12:41):
is snapped. And again, they play the Rams regularly. You know,
the Rams didn't bring a lot of tricks into this game.
You know, they're going to go with Puka. You know,
they love Kyron Williams. I thought Blake Corham looked pretty good.
He didn't do much his rookie year, and then he
broke his hand. I thought Blake Corham looked decent. He's
got a burst. But this is why the NFL is great.
(13:04):
We talked about it this week. We said there's going
to be surprising outcomes in week one. I think we
would have to admit this was a surprising outcome. It
was a three-point spread. If the Niners would have won 27-24,
nobody's shocked. Again, Shanahan's had great success against McVay. But
the manner in which they hammered the lifeless Rams, I
(13:25):
think that is one of our shocks. And now when
you're the Niners, you've got Miami and Arizona next. So
you're feeling pretty good about it. I mean, think about this.
Had Drake May not thrown that interception, the Niners would
be in first place and the Seahawks and the Rams
would be 0-1. So listen, San Francisco, it's a very
(13:49):
long season. Your concern, if you're San Francisco, is the
Rams and the Seahawks are young and are deep. They
are built for a long season. The weather gets cold.
San Francisco can be great on any given day. But man,
Trent Williams and Kittle and McCaffrey and Warner and Greenlaw,
(14:12):
there is a lot of miles. They've already lost a
defensive tackle on Ricky Pearsall for the season. There's a
lot of miles. Mike Evans. with some of those Niners.
So you cross your fingers, keep them away from the substation.
You hope they can remain healthy. But this was a
butt-kicking tonight. Am I surprised by the outcome? Absolutely. These
(14:35):
guys usually play close football games, too. Shanahan's a great coach.
Sometimes he can get a little too glued to his
play sheet. We've talked about this before, where sometimes the
Niners come out with a a game plan. And if
it doesn't work effectively early, he just stays tied to
the play sheet. He can be a little, I don't
(14:55):
know if the word is stubborn or rigid. He just
loves his play sheet. That's his Bible. Whereas McVay will
tear stuff up at halftime and start over. That's, I mean,
McVay changed his total offense like two years ago, and
now he's got four and five tight ends on the roster.
That's not Shanahan. He does what he does. His dad
did what he did. And he can get tied to
(15:17):
that play sheet, but it was humming tonight. They had
the Rams guessing. They were more physical. Brock Purdy was wiggling, throwing.
Looked great. Brock Purdy looked great tonight. And he, you know,
I know you think I all hate him. And I
don't like Jalen Hurds. And I don't like Baker Mayfield.
They're all very good starting quarterbacks in the NFL. I
thought tonight Brock played exceptional football. And again, Stafford got
(15:41):
off a plane. Stafford, here's the new environment. You know,
Brock Purdy's been there for a week. And there's, you know.
There is something to be said about when you go
on the road, it's almost like a retreat. When you
go on the road with your brothers for that long,
(16:01):
it's a bonding experience. That doesn't mean you get along
all the time, but in athletics, chemistry, brotherhood, trust is
really important. But I think more than anything, I was
just blown away by the physicality and the juice the
(16:22):
Niners had. It jumped off the television. I mean, you
can't deny. I prefer the Rams fly-in, fly-out technique. Undeniable,
the physical and energy advantage San Francisco had. That is
without question was the most jarring part of tonight's streamcast
(16:48):
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(17:34):
I know that runs counter to what you'd think. I
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Polymarket Clearing, the CFTC-regulated exchange and clearing organization. All right,
about Three months ago, I called Logan Swaim and Logan
runs our content for the volume. And I was checking
(20:48):
and I call Logan every week and just kind of
update me on the gripes, positive, negative. And I asked him, hey,
how's Sophie and Wes doing on the podcast? And this
was probably three months, maybe two and a half, maybe
three and a half. And he said, I think Sophie
(21:12):
wants to talk more basketball. She loves Wes. You guys
are still close. But she wants to talk more basketball
because the WNBA is getting really popular and she plays
with the superstar in the league. And so when you guys–
your podcast took a hiatus, there was a lot of
(21:33):
speculation on the interweb about what it was. And I–
As somebody who's founded The Volume, I get a kick
out of speculation. And so I just let things play
out because actually it's good for our business when people
are talking about The Volume. And so what Sophie was
(21:54):
doing was rebuilding her podcast, which is now called No Hesitation.
And her co-host is Drew Hanlon, her shooting coach, very well-known,
very highly regarded. So when you were hearing, Sophie, you're
rolling your eyes. When you were hearing, oh, this is controversial.
(22:15):
My reaction was, oh, God, this is funny. In fact,
I had texted you. But what was your reaction to it?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It's just dumb. Like, it's just dumb.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And, like, I think, you know, before you kind of
have this platform and before you're kind of in the spotlight,
you know, maybe I would have believed some of those
stories or, like, would.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Have got caught up in the gossip. But now that
I'm on this side of it, I'm like... All these
news outlets are just fake. They're all fraud. Nothing is real.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And I think honestly, that is why I wanted to
kind of, first of all, I thought of a, you know,
this WNBA great business opportunity. Like there is no really
good WNBA, NBA podcast, really WNBA podcast.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
That strictly talk about basketball and like all the great
things that it.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Has in the WBA. And so I was like, why
are we not talking more like this? And so I
loved West. I think we had a really fun time together.
I know that he's off doing great things too, but
you know, he was going through some stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Then I was going through some stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Everything was very, you know, main media for both of
us for a little bit. So I think a lot
of people thought that we were going at it. We've
really weren't, we were just rebranding. He was going to
do his own thing. The volume was going to take
care of him. I wanted to go more basketball. And
so when I first thought, I was like, this is
so goofy. And like, we sent stuff back and forth.
Me and Weston were like, these people are just dumb.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
So it was fun. I still love Weston Death and
I had a great time with him.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Well, I mean, let's just say this was the NBA
and Caitlin Clark- came into the league and I've compared
her to Michael Jordan, where she literally changed the direction
of the league. You would think it would make sense
to talk about Michael Jordan then or Caitlin Clark. Now
you play with the league superstar. You know what, you know,
(23:55):
I've said she has a Jordan quality where she literally
changes the ratings. She has a Steph Curry quality in
that she shoots like we've never seen in her sport.
She also has a Larry Bird quality, which is she
kind of gets pissy. And she's physical and she's pissy and...
There's a Midwest toughness to her, and I think it
(24:18):
can rub people, including WNBA rivals, the wrong way. I
look at her and I think she's got Jordan's ascension,
Curry's game, and Larry Bird's personality. Am I wrong?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
No, I don't think you are.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
I think that Larry Bird, honestly, might have a little
bit more sass and a little bit more... Like Caitlin
is just her own, her own personality, like especially off
the court. Like she is strictly basketball. She loves to
sit on the couch. She loves to watch TV. She's
very simple. I don't know Larry Bird, but I doubt that.
I bet he was a little bit more fun off
the court.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I don't know if you know that.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I don't know. You know, they called him the hick
from French lick. So I think he was basically all basketball, too.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But, you know, I think it's been a blessing that
she has been in our league. I think the talent
has always been there in our league. But just like
the eyes and the platform and how she's transforming our game.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Like, we can be thankful for the people who came
before us, but you can also.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Witness greatness and say that she is great and she
has done so much for our sport right now.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And I don't know why people are so... reluctant to
give her her flowers.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And maybe it is that Midwest mentality that people don't like,
but shit, I love it.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I'm from Missouri. So I'm like, Hey, bring it on sister.
So I'm a big fan.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
You know, I, I said this about Kathy Engelbert. I said,
I've worked in broadcasting for 40 years. I've been very lucky.
I've had very, very good bosses, but not all my
bosses have been great. And I said, and you were
publicly critical of Kathy Engelbert. And my take was when
the league wasn't making money, And it was growing, but slowly,
(25:52):
kind of methodically, she was fine. And then literally in
15 to 18 months, the league exploded. It's beating hockey.
It's beating baseball. And now we need a new commissioner.
And that's not that she's not capable, but it's just like-
I mean, Kathy, it's the volume slowly grew. If the
(26:15):
volume went from what it was the first week to
Spotify in a month, we would be over our skis.
And I think part of what Kathy struggled with, the
league is so popular, so big, so many eyes. It
needs fresh management and fresh leadership. Is that that feels fair?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I think it's very fair. And truly, I hate to
be critical because I know that job is so tough.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And anyone who's in that position, you're going to get
loved and you're going to get hated. And so you
need someone who has a backbone, who is bold, who
is courageous, who is going to try to unify.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
I think the WNBA is such.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
a spot where it's really easy to be diverse, but
you need a leader who's going to come in here
and give us a common goal and unite people. And
I think our biggest thing as players, I'll just say myself,
I don't want to speak for other players, but I
do know this is the conversations we've had, is we
want a commissioner who, first of all, wants to engage
(27:16):
in our players.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
We need to have a conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm telling you, if we were in a room and
she walked in, She wouldn't even say hi to us.
She would just go do her own thing. It's like,
this is a player's league. So have a relationship with
your players being communication. Like, yes, you will like work
for the owners, but at the same time, we're both
trying to grow this league and make it bigger and
better than ever. And so, you know, I think you're right.
I think when she first came in the league, she
was doing an OK job. She made some good business
(27:41):
decisions for us. But once we exploded, I just don't
think that she was ready for it. I don't know
if anyone would have been ready for it. But I
think our biggest thing is we want a commissioner who
is going to fight for us, who's going to have
a relationship with us, who is going to listen to
us so we can work and work together.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
And I just don't think that we have that relationship
whatsoever with Kathy.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, I think I don't know how many people know
this during covid. Adam Silver was on the phone with
LeBron James every other day. So Adam Silver has always
leaned on his star players for guidance. Remember, during COVID,
there were players, Dwight Howard, Kyrie Irving, that were saying,
shut it down. And Adam would listen. But he really
(28:24):
listened to LeBron James.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
And I think that and I don't think that's a
I don't think that is a I don't think that's
a weakness. Rob Manfred. Oh, I think Rob Manfred, the
baseball commissioner, really wants to raise the floor of salaries
for not necessarily cap them at the high end as
much as raise the floor. He wants players to make money.
(28:48):
He just doesn't, he doesn't want one payroll to be
80 million and one to be 450 million. So I
don't know. I Roger, I've seen Roger Goodell with players
like they're close. Roger calls and talks to star players
all the time. The it is, it is interesting. And
I'm going to throw this at you. I'm asking, I mean,
I'm close with my sister. I have my daughter and
(29:13):
two stepdaughters. I was closer to my mom than my dad,
although I love my dad, but I was closer to
my mom. So I've always felt the volume. We have
a lot of women in management. And so I think
I sort of get sometimes the sensibility of women, right?
My wife's very strong, very opinionated. But this question's different.
(29:35):
And if you're offended, you can virally smack me. But
when you... are kind of viewed a little bit, and
I don't know any other term, a little bit as
the league's... Just say it.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Sex symbol.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Is that fair? Oh, hey, that is way better.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
I thought you were going to go somewhere completely different
with this, so I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But my take is you lean into it a little bit.
You're an interesting contradiction. You're tough. You'll fight anybody. You'll
taunt anybody. But you'll make sure coming into the arena,
I look good and I want you to know I
look good. Tell me how you view that. Are you
conflicted or is that is that just like, hey, it's
(30:21):
I mean, Dennis Rodman was wearing a dress. It was
good for everybody. Right. How do you and I don't
know if that's semi offensive, but how.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Do you view that? It's not. It's not for me.
Maybe some people take it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
And I think for me.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
The reason why I really lean into that is, first
of all, I have always been super girly. Since a
little girl, I've always loved to dress up.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I love dresses. I love high heels.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I love all of that.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And for some reason, our society, if you play basketball,
you can't dress that.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Way or you can't be girly.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
No one's ever said it, but it's like the kind
of feel that you can't be both.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Screw all that. Yes, you can.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
You can be girly and you can go out and
kick someone's ass. Like, I love that combination. And I'm
not just going to say that. I also think on
the other side, you can go and dress a little
more masculine and go out there and still kick ass. Like,
there's not one way to do it right. And so
for me, I just I know my lane. I'm going
to stay in my lane. But I also know that
I have a lot of young girls who are girly,
(31:22):
who are raised like I was. who have aspirations to
be where I'm at that they're like, Oh, well, can I,
can I do both? Can I still be girly and
get my nails done and have my hair done and
dress up and, you know, kind of look real hot
coming into a game and they go be sweaty and
work hard.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yes, you can. And so I feel like that I
am just showing that you can have both.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And for girls who are wavering in their confidence, first
of all, if you look good.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
You play good typically is how it goes.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And so I will also say when I first got
into the league, like I, Tunnally, like we weren't dressing up.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I was literally wearing kind of what I wore to bed.
Like you were just rolling up in sweats and like sweatshirts,
like pajamas. Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
But now that we have so many eyes on everything
that we do, why would I not, you know, maximize
my opportunity?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Because if people are seeing how I dress, well, guess what?
That's business.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Now clothing brands are coming in and sending me clothes
and wanting to work with me. And so I have
a very kind of business mindset at times. But at
the end of the day, I also just like to
be a girl and I like to dress up and
I like to look a certain way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
By the way, I had a co-worker probably five years ago,
beautiful person. And they were getting makeup on and we
were talking about this and I said, there is a
reason Tom Brady wears beautiful suits and has his hair
styled and looks, it looks like a model when he's
(32:47):
on the air. It's okay for both sexes to want
to look good. You're a public figure. I'm in TV.
I wear makeup. Otherwise I'd be hideous to look at.
I get my hair fixed, right? Like, so my take
is people shouldn't be offended by that. You guys are brands, right?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
When they do cereal commercials, that's not milk. They're trying
to make that, you know what I mean? Like they're
trying to make that look as white as possible. And,
you know, like putting glue in it. It's like, guys,
this is all about marketing and branding outside of just
the strict basketball. Years ago, James Harden, I forget what
the team was. Maybe it was the Rockets. They had
(33:26):
a runway and the guys all came out.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Who gives a shit? I think it's fun. No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And at the end of the day, you said it perfectly.
All my friends and family, that is like game days.
And like when I have to be on TV or
when I have to do photo shoots or stuff for sponsors,
that is the best that I will look. Otherwise, I literally...
damn near look homeless. And I barely wear makeup. I
barely brush my hair. And so those are my days
to have my shit together. And so I I'm right
(33:53):
there with you, but I do think it's fun. And
I think the males like it. I think us females
really like it. And so, um, I think it's just
the fun part of sport that you get to see
kind of our style and what we like outside of
the field, outside of the court, uh, and the fans
love it.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
So why would we not do it?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
You've been in the league, how many years, six years,
seven years, seven.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Oh God, I'm getting old. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Seven. So I've said this on the air. Um, Outside
of baseball, you guys run sort of unopposed in the summer.
And when I fly around and grab the clicker, I
think your sport is very clicky. I think it's very
sticky that I probably two dozen times during the summer
landed on a WNBA game. And I've said this, the
(34:31):
quality of play is so much better. The passing. The
ball handling, it's more of a vertical sport than it
was 10 years ago. Go to your first year and
go to now. What part of the basketball to you
is like significantly better? Because I still hate the officiating,
(34:52):
but what part of the basketball to you is next
level compared to even seven years ago?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah. Um, the girls are just so athletic. Like you
would have, I feel like the women's basketball, you've always
had to have pretty much a very, um, high IQ fundamental. Um, yes,
you still have to be athletic and you're probably more
athletic than your average, but the, the girls nowadays, and like,
I say this in like the most respect, this is
(35:19):
like probably the highest compliment you can get. Like there
are girls coming out of college who play like dudes.
Just the way they move, the way they are quick
with the ball, their skill set. Me, I'm like, oh, shit,
I got to guard that. I just like staying around
the three-point line and then shoot my shot. Someone else
guard that. You really see the athleticism really changing.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
People can dunk. People are fast as hell. It's like
Olivia Miles.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
She is a repeat.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
She's killing it. She literally plays like a dude.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That is no disrespect. That is one of the highest
compliments you could ever get. I Um, you just see
more and more.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Girls like that.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
The, um, Sophie, when, when we, uh, hired you at
the volume and in my take was, um, the league,
the quality of play was good and getting better, but it,
there is something to be said about being a provocateur
and many times the best players aren't Rodman wasn't, um,
(36:19):
but he knew what he was. Um, When you pointed
the finger and did that gesture, I thought it was hilarious.
The amazing thing, it became like this massive meme. Did
you ever just sit and go... I mean, I don't
know if you had... Was that spontaneous? Yes.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I am just.
I am just sassy and I don't give a flying F.
I just, I just, just who I am. And so
I've kind of mastered it getting in people's heads and
I get it.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
I've had teammates who I played against. They're like, we
freaking hated you. But then once I'm on the same team,
people are like, oh, you're actually so cool.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
And we love you. Like we love you as a team.
I'm like, yeah, duh. Like I just who I am.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And so when that happened, you know, I just got
in the other girl's head and she got mad that
I was pointing a finger and she got like mad mad.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
And so I was like, shouldn't have done that. Like
once I saw I gotcha, I gotcha. And so then
I just kept it there. And so it did go viral.
It was like all over the world.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
For two weeks.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Oh, yeah. And I walk around now and like when
people ask for photos like last year, it's like, hey,
can you put me in a headlock?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And now this year it's like, hey, can you point
at me? And I'm like, what am I doing? Stick
with basketball. But it's part of the game. So who cares?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
If the Fever offensively, you're the best team in the league.
But if the Fever play their very best brand of basketball,
can they win the title? I think you have the
fifth best record or fourth right now. I think we're
at fifth, yeah. Is there, what is missing to be
the first?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I think consistency.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
And I think us as a team, we know that
when we are clicking, I don't think anyone can beat us,
but are you going to, are you going to get
that version of us that night? And I also think
defensively we struggle. I think we're at like 11th or
10th and that is, that's not good whatsoever. And yes,
we're able to outscore opponents, but playoffs are a different
(38:17):
ball game. It's a different type of beast and you
got to shore up on your defense and you Um,
I know in the W, uh, the last, I'm pretty
sure like six teams who have won it, they've all
been top three or four, um, maybe besides one in,
in defense and the ratings of defense.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
And we're just not there.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And so, um, during this break, we're on a two
week break because people are playing in, uh, the, the
FIFA stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
FIBA.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
FIBA.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah. Right. Yes. Clearly I'm not over there, but we're,
we're working on our defense and we're shoring up on that.
And so I think if we can just get a little,
a little bit better defensively, then yeah. I mean, I
wouldn't want to play us in, in the playoffs and
we have the experience. We, we definitely have all the
offensive threats you could ask for. And so we're a
(38:59):
dangerous team, but again, there's a lot of dangerous teams.
So it's, it's the little, the little details.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You do understand though, that getting booed and getting cat
calls is actually a great. Outside of Jordan, most of
the best players in my life in sports were hated
in every arena except their own. I don't know. I
(39:24):
think Draymond Green lives for it. I mean, I've heard,
I've talked to pro athletes my whole life. They're like,
I'd never say this publicly. I love winning on the
road more than at home.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
It's the best.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
And they'll never say it because they don't want to
tick off the fans. But my take is when you
go into a rival arena and they give you shit,
it must be unbelievable to walk out with a W.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Oh, it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I think both sides when we're here at game bridge,
it's so much fun because our fans are awesome that like,
you know, you just feel leaving good and that you
put on a good show for them. But there is
something special about, especially this year going into a different
arena and like, everyone knows it. I get booed 24 seven.
If I touch the ball, I get booed. Like it's,
(40:09):
it's just what it is. And the thing is, I
fucking love that shit.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I love it. Like bring it on. And I think
people don't know that people don't know that I love that.
And I thrive off of that.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
And so there is a extra good feeling about everyone
hating you. And then you guys walking out with a,
with a dub and like smiling and having fun and
getting on the bus and going home or going to
the next game.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
So it's a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
No hesitation, Sophie Cunningham. We love her at the volume
and it's great to finally talk to you.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yes, it's been a minute. We need to do this
more often. We love you.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
This podcast presented by Bud Light. Easy to drink, easy
to enjoy. Hey guys, JLab, using it for years, makes
innovative personal technology. Earbuds, headphones, speakers, great for travel, great
for the gym, great for the morning commute, pregame warmup.
Life is yours for the listening. So I'm traveling all
(41:06):
the time. I love the JLab headphones. Airports, long flights,
train rides, to and from work. To me, having great
sounds lets me tune everything else out, right? Head to
Amazon and use my name, Colin Cowherd. Head to Amazon,
code Colin Cowherd. Going to get 20% off any JLab products.
I use them every day. That's Colin Cowherd on Amazon
(41:28):
for 20% off. Feel alive with JLab. A lot of products.
Find the blue box. Yep, they're in a blue box
at retailers and Amazon, or just go to JLab.com, J-L-A-B, JLab.com.
Host
Colin Cowherd
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