Colin’s top takes of the week.
First, he’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1
They start with Spain upsetting France in the World Cup semifinal in a game where they dominated defensively and smothered France’s vaunted attack and has the potential to turn in the greatest defensive performance ever in a World Cup (3:30).
They make their predictions for the impact of this World Cup on the future of soccer’s popularity in America (12:00) and agree that the passion and consumption of the World Cup shown by American fans has been absolutely remarkable (22:30).
Then, he’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” on the Volume.
They discuss the Jaylen Brown trade and Colin argues Brown’s presence was problematic for the Celtics when Jayson Tatum is on the floor (30:00).
They move to the World Cup and compare the artistry of both soccer and basketball, and discuss what went wrong for the USMNT against Belgium (38:00).
Finally, they discuss LeBron’s free agency and entertain the idea of LeBron joining the star-studded Sixers (53:30).
All lines provided by @hardrockbet
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(01:11):
Colin s q U a r E dot com slash
go slash Colin. All right, Danny Parkins joining me. Spain
upset France. I'm gonna show you just to give you
some example of how into the World Cup I've been.
So did a day Champ, the manager of France Leaves
(01:35):
and Zennaday Zidon. The fact I got close on those,
it's really an achievement. You're crushing it, Colin, your crush.
But seriously, I thought, France. You know, it's really remarkable
how Spain matches up with France so basically until the end,
(01:59):
I mean, France had one shot on goal, I mean,
and then they got a couple.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
At the end.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Spain dominates possession. Spain's won thirty seven matches without losing.
They controlled possession. It reminded me a little bit in
the first few minutes, a little bit of United States Belgium,
where you watch this hyper aggressive team and within ninety
seconds we are pinned deep in our territory and we
can't get it out. And I'm watching Spain do the
(02:28):
same thing to France, where France can't maintain possessions they're
pinned deep. Spain had multiple opportunities and like our goalie,
the goalie for France, you know, by no means lost
the game, but was a little indecisive, was a little
(02:48):
sketchy early. But I was just taken by and soccer
can do this almost like no other sport, an incredibly gifted,
confident team with in ninety seconds. It is basically holding
on for dear life. And it just jumped through the
television to me.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, we got to do We were like the we're
the second post game show. You know, I'm sure the
majority of the people were with his lot On and
Thiery and Alexi and Rebecca, but if you switched over
to FS one, we did an hour of post on
it and I was really proud of it. I thought
we did a good job at the ot. It was listen.
I picked Spain in the game. I picked Spain before
(03:32):
the tournament to win it. The frontline attacking of France
is remarkable. Spain's allowed one goal all tournament. Spain beat
France in the Euros in twenty twenty four. Spain beat
France in the Semis. By the way, in the Euros
they beat him in the Semis of the nation's league
in twenty twenty five, and they just beat him in
(03:52):
the semis of the twenty twenty six World Cup. So
the thirty seven match streak for Spain that you're talking about, Yeah,
but three of them will come against France, like they
just their defense knows what to do, and I thought
it was suffocating. And sometimes I think like a little
thing can happen and it can balloon to a medium
sized thing and then a large thing, and it was
(04:13):
just a snowball effect for France. Like they got a
yellow card in the eighth minute, they allowed the goal
in the twenty second minute after the penalty on Jamal
allows for the free kick for oh yards of ball.
Then their probably second best defensive player gets hurt in
the twenty ninth minute, and all of a sudden, you're
thirty minutes into the game. You're trailing for the first
(04:35):
time you have all tournament. One of your players is
a yellow card, another of your players has had the
sub out that you fouled their nineteen year old phenom,
and like, oh, play where there was not really any
chance of giving up a goal in that spot, and
you give up a goal and you're down one nothing,
and it just it got away from him really quick
and trailing a team like Spain. I mean, Spain has
(04:59):
allowed one goal the whole tournament. The record, the World
Cup record for a World Cup champion is two. It's
been done three times. So we went we're going to
go from like if Spain shuts out Argentina or England,
we will go from weeks of talking about this is
France's World's Cup to lose. France is the best offensive
(05:20):
team we've ever seen. France is the best collection of
offensive talent we've ever seen. So it will immediately pivot
to Spain just turned in the best defensive performance in
the history of the World's Cup.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know, we've said this before, is that great defense
when it meets a great offense, the defense almost always wins.
It's almost always because what you're doing, a great defense
speeds up everything you do offensively. So France was struggling
to maintain possessions. It's like I've used the example before.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
If you're a you.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Know, you're a typist, and you type sixty words a
minute and I say type ninety, you make more mistakes?
Right if you watched we knew the Patriots o line
wasn't great against the Seahawks defensive front.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Everything New England.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Did had to be a beat and a half faster,
and their efficiency drops through the floor. I mean, that's
what if you go look at Mahomes the last two years,
no run game, below average protection against good teams. His
efficiency Patrick Mahomes falls through the floor. Is on target
percentage dropped, every all of the efficiency stuff dropped and
(06:26):
he's the best quarterback in the world until then. So
I think it's one of those I just sort of thought, well,
France has an all star team, but you know, it's
another example of a great defense kind of suffocating and
taking a great offense out of its element.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
There's no question that's what happened. It's what I mean,
it's what they did to Portugal. Not that there is
great of an offense, but like France, Spain hasn't really
been in danger of losing, like they had to draw
against Cape Verde early, which I think turned everybody off
to Spain. Their best player, Lamin Yamal, started the tournament
(07:08):
coming off of the hamstring injury, so he only played
fifty two minutes in the first two matches, and then
they had the weird draw to kate Verde, which ended
up aging pretty well because kate Verde took Argentina to
the break to the brink and lost three to an
extra time in the whole thing, so like not as
embarrassing of a result for Spain. But I think what
(07:28):
happened in this World's Cup was because Harry Kane and
Jude Bellingen and Messi and in Bape and all of
the stars on the star leaden teams were scoring a
ton of goals and it was like, well, Spain's not
scoring a ton of goals and their star isn't the
guy that we hyped up is like, this is the
next Pele, this is the phenom Yamal is this eighteen
(07:50):
year old wizard and all that. But he's had like
a slow, weird World Cup. Everyone's just been talking about
the goals scoring because offense is easier for us to
consume the Golden boot race and you put up a
leader board and then it's like, oh, wait, Spain's allowed
one goal the whole tournament, right, Okay, yeah they're probably
gonna win.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, it's it's been remarkable. And I said this that
there is not Arling Holland today is more well known
than any hockey hockey player outside of Wayne Gretzky in
my life, you know. I mean, if you go Earling
Holland now has sixty six million followers on Instagram. The
(08:34):
top IG performer in the NHL has two IG's not everything,
but it's something. It's a pretty good indicator of global stardom.
And I said this. When Tiger entered the PGA, it spiked,
but when he took certain tournaments off, the ratings went away.
Because golf has always been and I love it, fairly elitist.
(08:57):
It's hard. Lots of people start and quit. Very few
people actually play at a high level. Caitlin Clark comes
to the WNBA, it spikes. To this day when she plays,
a million people watch. She doesn't three hundred and fifty thousand.
Soccer's different, we're out. The numbers are still remarkable. And
so if you're asking staying power much more than golf,
(09:20):
much more than tennis, much more than hockey, you can
have sensational star players. And I'm not saying it's the NFL,
but what I've watched from attendance, this is non USA games,
from attendance to merchandise to passion when we're not playing,
where do we put it in our sports ecosystem?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So I heard this take from you earlier today, and
I guess what I would say is, this is a
perfect storm of events that is happening. It's in our
time zone, so we can we can watch every game.
The stars are playing and playing well, scoring goals, like
(10:06):
I just mentioned, the Marquee brands are advancing deep, like
we didn't just get Egypt Switzerland, we got Spain France.
That helps. And the World's Cup is awesome. And I
have no doubt that you know my six year old
I've told you about him before, like he now has
a couple of soccer jerseys, he went to a soccer camp,
like I have no doubt at all that millions and
(10:28):
millions of people will play soccer and it will continue
to grow. I do have some skepticism that, like the
MLS is about to become more popular than the NBA.
I don't think that. I don't think that because I
think in my experience as someone who falls for soccer
every World's Cup. Yeah, it is hard to transition back
(10:49):
to the MLS when the talent is just so noticeably
less and the intensity is noticeably less, even if it
is growing and good business. And I wish I would
have bought it ten years ago when you tried to.
But like, I'm not waking up at six in the
morning and watching the EPL, which is at least like
(11:09):
a closer level of talents to these World Cup games.
So it's like when you go back and watch the
American soccer the MLS in our time zones, and it's
three or four levels lower than what we're watching right now.
I don't know that that momentum is going to carry
where I can say that soccer is going to still
be in the American zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But it's interesting because we love I've gone to Wimbledon. Well,
the only major sporting event I haven't gone to and
I want to is the US Open, but it always
falls in late August. I'm on vacation this year. I
may go for in Flushing Meadows for a night. It's
supposed to be just just a rocking event, just in
a remarkable by.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
The way, I hadn't done it until I moved to
New York and Nick had been telling me to do it.
I've done it the last two years. Come out, Let's
go together.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
You me fun.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Oh my god, it's awesome, and you'll get us good seats,
so that'll be cool. And the honey Deuce's great cocktail
with little pieces of melon in it. It's it's it's listen.
Any sport at the highest level is awesome. That's the truth.
If you're like you and me and you love sports,
any sport at the highest level is awesome. The US
(12:22):
Open is a great event.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And we know as Americans we never have the top player,
but we still in New York.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's the ticket.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Oh yeah, okay, So my point, I guess my point
is this, you go to Europe, they love the NFL.
Last time I was in Europe in Madrid, I saw
NFL jerseys. Is the truth is the NFL is getting
really popular overseas and tennis, and when we host the
Olympics in this country with a lot of events we're
not great at, it's wildly popular. And soccer is incredibly popular.
(12:54):
This is where the globalization is real. Is that Americans,
like I mean, let's be honest, every American I know
loves going to Europe, loves Italy, they love London, like
this idea that stuff. We have to wrap everything in
a flag we all acknowledge as Americans the MLS. It's
(13:15):
kind of Triple A baseball compared to the English Premier League.
So a lot of my friends I noticed this. I
told you when I'm married Anne. One of the things
I noticed because we lived in the Boston Red Sox
Yankee zone right in New England. Her sons would get
up on Saturday morning and they would watch the English
Premier League. And I remember telling her, I'm like, man,
(13:35):
is this a cautionary tale on what's happening to baseball.
We're in Red Sox territory. Those kids have no interest
in baseball. They're totally into soccer and the FIFA soccer games.
So my take is the World Cup. We love soccer
in America, but we want the best stuff, and at
this point, the MLS, although it's better today than it
(13:56):
was ten years ago, we view it as kind of
Triple A baseball.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Absolutely, and like I have no doubt, like I like,
like I said, I wish, I you know, I would
have loved to have ownership in an MLS team, Not
that I carry it like that, but like and yeah,
like EPL rights would probably be a good business to
be in. But it's it is tough to sell. I
got I'm going to wake up at six seven in
the morning on Saturday and not play with my kids
(14:22):
or go to my kids soccer. And like me personally,
I'm kind of at my bandwidth on like the amount
of weekend time I can spend watching sports away from
my wife and kids, Like I don't. I don't have
it in me to become like a Man City fan
and become like dedicated to it. But there's no question
that this thing, it keeps growing and world cups like
(14:43):
this one that are spectacular that everybody can watch, that
tens of millions of people will watch non US games.
Of course there will be a ripple effect to some
people are going to just follow Erling Holland and him
to his teams. Some people will follow Jamaal and Harry
(15:04):
Kane or Bellingham or like whoever they've fallen for in
this tournament. And of course it's going to keep It
is clearly a sport where the arrow is pointing up.
I just personally, I don't know if you're not watching
it in prime time in America, night in and night out,
(15:24):
I don't know that it's going to enter the zeitgeys like,
do you see yourself doing EPL topics over baseball topics
anytime soon? No? No, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
But not everything that's wildly popular is topical on my show.
As you know, there are like there are just things
that are that are Like the Olympics are great. I
don't talk Olympics. I can't use any footage. NBC doesn't
allow it. Frankly, ESPN is not allowed to use a
lot of footage of the World Cup, so it limits
their you know, coverage of it to a large degree.
So I guess my take is, which is it doesn't
(16:02):
have to be in America to be wildly popular. I
think and I think the the ire and the income levels.
This is something that you know, it's it's uncomfortable to
talk about, but the income levels of soccer fans are
up there with golf and tennis. You get educated one
hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred and fifty thousand
dollar incomes. It's it's not a tractor pull man, it's
(16:25):
it is going. It is high end stuff. I've had
probably a half dozen friends who have made a trip
to either golf in like Ireland or go to an
English Premier League match, Like that's that is something you know,
Like my friends if they're going to Europe and I said, oh,
what are you going to do in Europe? Like almost
every guy I know has gone to an English Premier
League match.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I'm you know, I've been contacting one of the people
I've talked to on the air.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I'm going to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
So it's I just think, as I've aged, stuff like
this is much more interesting, Like I'm there's a lot
of minutia that you and I avoid some of it.
You got you know, you get into the hamster wheel,
love it, and I've just felt this is so refreshing
and so fun. Then it's like, yeah, I want to
extend this a little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I love that. I love that you're swept up in it.
And also yeah, like it's a you're gonna you're gonna
take a flight to Madrid and go see a game,
Like it's not a bad it's you know what I mean.
It's yeah, it's it's not it's not It's not a
bad way to live if you've got the means to
do it, And it is just a I think that
(17:35):
it's we love events right like in the in a
world of uh splintered attention spans, and there are seemingly
even if it's not true, the algorithm kind of makes
us feel like we are more at each other's throats,
more divisive, have less in common. An event like this
(17:58):
happens and it's not in Qatar or Saudi Arabia or Spain, Portugal,
Morocco like in four years, it's just right in front
of us. And even if you couldn't afford to go,
and I attended zero matches. You know, my wife and
I did a date night in Brooklyn. The World Cup
matches are going on on Saturday. We were just like,
(18:18):
we're going to just go explore Brooklyn and bounce around
and go to different spots, but with the intent of,
like we want to watch the games. There are seventeen
different options watch parties in the street, high end restaurant,
cocktail lounge, showing the game like it it is. It
is just it was so totally embedded everywhere we were going,
(18:40):
you know, like that that I think brings a lot
of people together and just will have a very like
word association like soccer positive. You know, because because so
many people were just like had had some touch point
with this World's Cup even if it was. My wife's
(19:01):
family is from Lawrence, Kansas, where KU is, and they
were the base camp for Algeria, and they just thought
it was like really really cool how many Algerians came
to their college town and then the college town welcomed
the Algerians and it was beautiful. So like you could
be in New York City or Lawrence, Kansas and you
had some sort of touch point with this World's Cup.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, yeah, the two groups that love it are young
people under thirty and people with money that are over fifty.
Those are good groups to have at your disposal. And
also it's also a sport that is a city sport Miami,
San Francisco, La, New York, Philadelphia. That's not to say
I don't love it in Kansas City, but it really
at college football sometimes or college basketball feels like almost
(19:46):
like the country. It's small towns. Soccer's big city is.
It thrives in big diverse areas. It could be Rome,
it could be London, it could be New York. And
you know the other thing that it is and I'm
maybe I'm being too you know, jingoist. You know the
ultimate patriot here, but it is. Our economy is much
bigger than even like the UK, like like it, and
(20:08):
it's exploded over the last decade.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
We've pulled away.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
From Europe economically. You know Singapore has money, Zurich, you know, Qutar,
we know that, but Europe doesn't have our money, the
amount of money people pay for fans. We have the
NHL in the NFL, and Major League Baseball in the WNBA,
and a massive college system. We have all these pro leagues.
They have the English Premier League and cricket. The fact
(20:34):
that we have all these leagues, you bring your sport over,
it's twenty five hundred ticket and you can't get one
for any game in any city. I really think it
speaks to the consumption and the passion we have for sports.
I constantly hear how divided we are. American fans have
(20:54):
been unbelievable. You're not seeing fights.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
People have just.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Relished the opportunity UNDERNEA to flex and show off and
be great, great hosts. And we don't say that enough
about our sports fans. I'm blown away by how we've reacted.
When you consider Danny, how much sports, how many options.
I'm not even counting like high school sports. That's a
(21:21):
massive business in America AAU basketball. So I've been blown
away by America our commitment, our passion, and our and
our graciousness.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I'm with you. I love sports. I love how much
everybody seems to around us love sports because it pays
for my kids education. By the way, I'll just do
a shout out here if anyone wants to take me
to the World's Cup final in Jersey or New York.
I've been to a game yet. It's right down the road,
but the get in price is like eight grand ticket
and I'm not gonna do it way one of these
(21:56):
trendous sponsors. I'll tell you, I'll tell you great stories.
But no, it's and like I know you mentioned Kansas
City kind of like as a placeholder. Kansas City is
like the soccer capital of the country. Crazy of their
weight class. They're number one of the TV ratings for everything.
Orlando too. Yeah, just like so shout out to my
old home in case, but no, I think that, like listen,
(22:18):
it's sometimes it is cliche the like sports bring people
together because we do, like the Disney movie, and we
sometimes want more more of like a burden on the
athletes to bring us together. And you know the bad
actors will say shut up and dribble and like it.
It can be used to be divisive, but like and
(22:39):
its core, it's just it is a unifier and it
is such a great event. And I know we are
two people who work for Fox and sound like corporate
shills here, but like the data backs us up. Everybody
is loving it. Everybody is loving it right, like the
President is talking about it. People on the left, people
(23:00):
on the right, old, young, to your point, like different
socioeconomic classes. I will miss it when the World Cup ends.
It will be very interesting to see if we get
as swept up in it four years from now when
the time zones just make it a little bit more complicated.
Oh yeah, you know what I mean. Like again, like
(23:21):
this really was. Yes, this was a perfect storm to
catch us in the right pat Like again, if if
it's in what Saudi Arabia and then they aired in
October because of the heat, and then it.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Goes you lose forty percent of the numbers and.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It goes up against NFL. You know, it's just so
like but it's okay. It's it's a moment in time,
and it's an awesome moment in time.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
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I'm not terribly romantic about sports. I kind of like
(25:59):
new trends, and so I've always liked analytics. I have, however,
pushed back on I do think the NBA and baseball,
which are very analytically driven, postseason baseball is different. You'll
use starters out of the bullpen, you'll manage different in
the postseason. You'll you'll take bigger risks because your season's
on the line. So you have to be careful about analytics.
(26:21):
Plays well to the volume, not necessarily all post season situation.
Same in the NBA. So a lot of times you
just need a basket. It doesn't you know, you don't
need a three. You need a high percentage two to
take take a two point ly to a four and
seal the game, like we all know that. So I
do think it's fascinating with the Celtics trading Jalen Brown
(26:44):
because he is one of those rare players. I don't
know if I told you. The first time I heard
analytics was Monte Ellis, who's a really athletic guy for
the Warriors, and people are like, you know, he's bad analytically,
And we didn't even talk much about analytics then. And
then there's like guys like Trey Young. I think RJ
it's the guy that's got and got beat up by
the analytic crew. So Jalen Brown's fascinating though, because we
(27:05):
can see the weaknesses of Trey Young, right, like he's
a poor defensive player, he's a small frame, or you
watch other players and say, well, he's just not a
great player. Jalen Brown's one of the first plays both
ends a lot of points, excellent defensive effort, and then
you just start looking at numbers, and the most fascinating
(27:26):
stuff to me is so the Celtics were nine and
two this year when Jalen Brown didn't play. Now, what
makes that kind of shocking is Tatum wasn't even in
some of those games.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
So you would.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Think if Brown and Tatum are out, they were atrocious,
like they were nine and two, and then you say, okay, okay,
Jason tim that is a one year deal. You go
to the previous year when Tatum was healthy and they
were fifteen and four without Brown. Now they had Horford Porzingis,
they had a lot of offensive web Okay, they say, oh, okay,
(28:00):
so let's go to the title year. That was the
year of Jalen Brown emerging. They went twelve and zero
without Jalen Brown on the floor in the regular season.
So you start adding these up and Jalen Brown. It's
why this is one of the reasons this is hard
for us, because you and I are conditioned that twenty
eighty game and a willing defender that's a top seven
(28:20):
player in the league. Like, there's just not that many guys. No,
It's like even when Klay Thompson was more of a
catch and shoot guy, wasn't driving the offense, but he
played really good defense. Here. I used to argue, he's
the only player in the league that would start for
every team, even like Steph would get in the way
of certain teams, Like I look at Jalen Brown, I'm like, well,
(28:42):
he would start for every team, but he's fundamentally in
a formulaic offense. Kind of a problem when Tatum's on
the floor, and it's hard to reconcile that my entire
life is twenty eighty game and plays.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I don't care your.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Turnover ratio is since the turnover So that part of
Jalen Brown, I think is new.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
We don't quite know what to do with.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Like, he's a borderline all NBA guy and he gets
a way of winning for the self. That to me
is hard for fans, hard for me when I start
deep diving on these numbers. You have defended him, and
by the way, you and I for three years have
said this, but what do you do when you see
those numbers?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
You can't ignore him. I think there's a certain amount
of when there's enough circumstantial evidence from enough different avenues,
it has to mean something like I'm not a big
believer in like like arguing in the face of bald
face data, right, So like it's very clear that there
are some strong like metric markers that the team is
(29:51):
better when Jalen Brown doesn't play. I don't like ignoring
that completely. I think it's because of a variety of reasons.
He plays on an island, so his style of the
offense doesn't fit well with other players.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Like they're a fast pass, fast shoot team.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, they need rhythm, they need the ball to pop around.
He was a below average He was forty fifth percentile
spot at player last year, so below average spotting up.
So he struggles when the ball's getting moved to him
out of other action. On defense, he's outstanding on the ball,
but he can be inattentive and lazy off the ball.
That all is going to kind of accumulate into what
affects those advanced metrics. I think that people pitch advanced
(30:32):
metrics and catch alls. They pitch the advantage in the
large sample of data. I would argue that's actually the
disadvantage of that kind of data, because the truth of
the matter is in an eighty two game regular season,
there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of bad basketball.
There's a lot of nights in there where you play
(30:53):
against teams that aren't in the championship picture at all whatsoever.
As a matter of fact, it's really only about like
team games you play a year that are against the
teams that are actually really in the mix, that have
the elite defenses, the superstar talent, and the things that
are going to actually test your your system in a
real way. And so what happens is in those playoff
(31:16):
situations where you need a bucket similar those situations are
a very unique circumstance that doesn't really show up much
in an eighty two game sample size of data. So
I think what ends up happening is you have a
system in Boston, which this is a credit to Boston
from the top down. They're so well run that in
that eighty two they just chew up and spit out teams.
(31:37):
They just chew them up and spin them out. Ye,
So they just put together a lot of really strong
data over the eighty two And in that there's probably
a lot of nights where you're playing the Wizards and
the Brown units aren't moving the ball really well and
he's being lazy on defense, and it hurts the data.
And then incomes a bench group led by you know,
Peyton Pritzard and Jason Tatum, and they beat the heck
out of them, and it continues to throw off the data.
(31:59):
But then you like one of the Celtics struggled against
good teams all year last year, except for there was
a big game late in the year against Oklahoma City
where they were they were playing OKC and nobody on
the Celtics could score, and Jason or Jalen Brown was
staring down Alex Caruso and Lou Dor two of the
very best perimeter defenders in the league, and just barbecuing
(32:20):
them over and over again and scoring in the Celtics won,
And it's like, that's what I keep coming back to,
is like, again the large sample, there's some value there.
I do think it's revealing of some of the shortcomings
in Jason jaln Brown's game, but he is one of
the apex athletes in this league that thrives in the
biggest settings. Again, one of I think one of the
most iconic performances individually of this entire last decade is
(32:45):
Jalen Brown picking up Luka Doncics full court for an
entire NBA Finals, picking him clean and dunking it on
the other end and just making him miserably uncomfortable for
five games while they beat the heck out of the
MAVs and won the titles. So it's like, ultimately, that's
why I say I l end in the middle, because
I'm not going to ignore the data and pretend like
there aren't weaknesses in Jalen Brown's game. But I think
(33:07):
that those I think basketball is more art than science sometimes,
and I think that we forget that a lot of
times it comes down to not the large sample, but
can I score on this guy or can I guard
this guy? And Jalen Brown is just one of the
very best ats solving that specific problem on both ends
of the floor.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
So I want to end for about five minutes talking
about the World Cup because I think it's really interesting.
I think you and I I don't know if you
and I have talked about this, but I've always thought
the NBA is very similar, the most similar to international
elite soccer.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Where.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
It is star driven at times star reliant, the very
best can often have long careers, and it's art. There's
a lot of fluidity to basketball. There's open floor, open canvas,
open pitch that you know you can't You can coach,
but don't over coach. That's a real problem. And it's
(34:02):
the same in soccer. Like you want open play, dribbling, passing,
let people create Labla. I mean even like a messy
where he just kind of floats, you know, he's not
part of the offense. He just sort of floats and
waits for opportunities to score. He's like almost disconnected from
the team. And that's totally understood. And it's interesting the
(34:24):
NFL and now college sports because of the NIL but
most of our lives, the NFL is not incremental. You
draft Drake may or Caleb Williams, you get him a
coach by their second year, and it's like, holy shit.
Ones in the Super Bowl one could have been like,
it's not incremental. You get seven rounds of picks. There's
(34:45):
a ton of undrafted players or seventh round players brock
pretty who make your team and can flourish.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
It's just different NBA.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
After about the fifteenth pick, man, you are crossing your
fingers and just open. Somebody fits. So all sports are incremental.
Baseball players you draft them, they're in the minors for years. Basketball,
if you can get one starter out of the draft,
I mean even in the top twelve picks, you feel
really good about a draft. Forget two or three starters.
(35:12):
Soccer in this country and it's been interesting to watch
the coverage and every four years we lament how we're
you know, we're not competitive, and it's like, guys, this
is incremental, like we only have one beer in the country.
That's as old as Belgium has been playing soccer.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Like it's like sorry, like it's just it's old.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Like. So my interpretation all this is is I don't
freak out when we lose. I thought we're bad in goal.
We usually aren't. It was an ugly second half. It
felt like you got humiliated. That pisses Americans off, Like
that really stings. But somebody that watches basketball more than
anybody I know that. I'm sure you engaged in some
(35:53):
of the World Cup and you do see the symmetry
between the two.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
What has been kind of.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Your like takeaway on the United States maybe the World
Cup in general? This this this sense that, oh my god,
we never get better at this stuff because you're you
tend to contextualize everything really well and you put you
pump the brakes and a lot of the you know,
clickie stuff. What's kind of been your interpretation on all
of it.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I've so enjoyed the World Cup this year. It was
in Vegas. Obviously they have it playing everywhere. It was
kind of interesting having it go on at the same
time as Summer League. Yeah, I I honestly thought that
the USA loss was as much about the moment and
us just kind of not quite being ready. Yeah, there
(36:37):
was some the sequences early in the game where it
just felt like we were slow to the ball, Like
it just felt like it almost felt like like we
weren't ready for the level of intensity that we needed
in that moment. That that one, that ball that popped
up right in front of the goal, that everyone just
stood around and watched, and the next thing you know,
they're jumping on it and scoring. I And then that
(36:57):
the I would just say, what happened on that that
third goal was as close to the yips as it gets.
I mean that he drives his foot into the ground
like literally he just could have kicked the ball away,
and you're in You're in great shape, you're down one goal,
you have a chance. And that's really the thing. Like
I I do believe that there's there's the skill development
and the maturity piece, but there's also like sometimes you
(37:19):
need to lose or be embarrassed even to understand next
time you find yourself in that situation that you bring
the requisite intensity, that you bring the requisite I always
refer to it as like scar tissue. That's how I
feel about san Antonio, Like, you don't think those guys
are beating themselves up about what happened. You don't think
Victor weman Yama took a discount because he saw Jalen
(37:39):
Brunson take a discount. And then when Finals MVP. You know,
like these things when you're you're talking about competitiveness, which
I agree. I think it's literally one of the most
important traits for any for any athlete, And like all
the smart teams that you talk to, that's like near
the top of the list of character traits they're looking
for when they're interviewing, when they're interviewing points.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
My scout is when I talk to NBA scout, that
is huge. That is like after natural talent. It's like,
I mean one of the knocks on Car for the
Lakers was one of my scouts that he's a little finesse,
he can play, he's long, he plays big, he can
be a little finesse like that just that's very you
hear that from any NBA scout who's worked for years.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, it's like the way I've described it on my
show is like I want someone that hates losing more
than they love winning. I want someone who like when
they win, they experience more of a relief that they
avoided losing right than just like joyous want to go
celebrate like it's it's weird, like the best winners of
all time they win and then they're unsatisfied because all
(38:42):
they really have done is just stave off a loss
a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's really all they've done.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
And like, I think that honestly, like Pulisits for example,
that was kind of the thing that stood out to
me where it just kind of it didn't even seem
like he wanted to be there as much as like
some of the other stars representing their countries. And I don't, no,
Pulsit's well enough to like stand on that and to
take it to some sort of extreme, but it just
there was like a palpable energy. When you watched Earl Alan,
(39:10):
or when you watch Harry Kane or you watch Leo Messi,
there's like a there's like a they feel like this
is the biggest, most important thing they're going to do
over the course of these four years and I think
I think that our skill level is growing. The talent
was undeniable. I did think that we looked small against
several of the teams we played, even Bosnia. I was like,
Bosnia looks bigger than us, Like that was something that
(39:31):
stood out.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, I think we need to get we have to
upgrade it goal and I said this, I think we
need some size. I think we're our skills grown. But
you know, Rinaldo's big, Holland's big, Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham.
Length matters in every sport in the world.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Length, there's another word that NBA scouts talk about, like
you know.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
There was an article I read this weekend of the
Many and they went back to Pochattino when he first
took over the United States men's national team, and one
of the things he had to break down he said,
we were a bit of a country club, like guys
would take time off to golf or go out and
it's like, yeah, that can't be it. And so I
think it's one of my knocks on United States men's
(40:15):
national team soccer, and I've been really supportive through the years,
is we're not real hard, you know, like like, and
it was that when people used to compare. Anytime people
would criticize, like Draymond Green, I always said, if you
took Draymond at that Warrior team, they weren't hard. He
made them hard his screens.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
It's like the Bulls.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Those guys were hard, like I mean just down though,
like who coach found out and he was a teammate
of them. It's like practice was hard. And I do
think I think that criticism of United States soccer is no,
I'm not saying country club, but it doesn't feel as
hard as it needs to be. And I just mean
(40:59):
a little bit of an edge, little ass kicking that stuff.
You know. I sound very old school, but I'm sorry,
Like the New York Knicks kind of pushed the Spurs around.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
They did.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I'm sorry, guys against kids. So I think your interpretation
And this is why I asked, because you're not doing
it all day. Like sometimes my wife will say something
about sports. No she doesn't know, but she'll say something
about twice a year and I'm like, God, that's a.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I didn't even see that.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I'm so into the weeds on all these things I do,
so I like asking people that don't cover the NFL
about the NFL, or don't cover baseball, and so your
interpretation as largely as you feel like there was a.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Grit, there were a little yeah, like hit first, don't
wait to be hit.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
I mean like the head the play that I'm talking
about with that loose ball right in front of the
net that like three USA players just stood and watched
twelve Belgium scoring, or like the play where Tim Reim
and I'm sorry, I can't remember the player's name that
went over the top of him and just headed it in.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
All the Belgian strike.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was their first goal if I
remember it might have been there. Yeah, it was either there.
I think it was their first of their second goal.
But like Tim Reim was just kind of late to
the contact and so even though he was like because
the kid who went over the top of him was tall,
but he was kind of thin. And I remember sitting
there thinking like if Tim Reim just like kind of
meets meets him first, like hits first rather than waiting
(42:20):
to be hit, Like I feel like that's half the
battle in every sport. It's it's one of the reasons
why like people get so hung up on officiating when
the other team is shooting more free throws, because they'll
be like, they're fouling us, Why are they getting away
with it? And I have found at every single level,
from when I coached in high school to when I
played in college to when I've watched the pros to
even money tournaments and men's leagues and everything under the sun,
(42:43):
when you come out and you play physically aggressive, when
you bring the fight to the other team, you get
a better whistle. It's the craziest thing. And it's simply
because you're beating them to spots and so they are
out of position, and then they end up reacting to
your contact and get into trouble with the officials. Like
you have to bring the fight to the other team.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
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until nine twenty seven, twenty twenty six. We've talked about this.
(44:08):
I was a college official, eight dollars a game. I
was a kid from divorce. I officiated games, basketball games,
and it was the first light bulb moment. The football
players who played intermural basketball to stay in shape in
the offseason, they got the whistle. They weren't very artistic.
(44:29):
It was sloppy. They'd get right down into the paint
and they'd come flying around and it was awful, ugly basketball.
And they got the whistle. And it's like, I really
remember just thinking it changed the way I perceived basketball.
I'm like, they're just always a step ahead. They're aggressive,
and often the more athletic or fluid basketball player, he
just doesn't He's a step behind, so he's grabbing, he's lunging,
(44:52):
he's lated position. I'm glad you said that because that
is a lot of pro sports. There's a lot of
six eight guys with lanch who can hit a jumper
that never become good NBA players. They just don't have
that Kobe thing. They just don't have that edge and
that animal that just almost animosity toward anybody who would
They're almost outraged that you would think you could stop them,
(45:15):
and it's like almost illusional, a little crazy. Jay glazer
Awa says, you gotta be a little off to be
a Hall of Famer. Some wiring's not quite right.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I don't want to get into the Lebron thing because
it'll be a whole conversation. But this is why I
hope he doesn't go to Cleveland, because you know who
doesn't have that hit first, Like we're the tougher team. Mentality,
That Cavs team straight up quit against the Knicks. They
straight up quit and like all like and I understand
the storyline and I get it, and like all Calves
(45:47):
fans are all very hyped up right now, and he
certainly is the favorite to go there. By the way,
the word in Vegas is no one knows, No one
has any idea where Lebron's going, right, But like the if,
I'm just gonna be so disappointed if he goes there,
because I just don't think that team has the I
don't think they can match it.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
I think I got blown out in three of the
four games against the next I mean the average was
over like fifteen points. They got blown out.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
They quit.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
And the other thing, the other thing is he's dumped
Cleveland twice. Let's let's stop with the romanticism of it. Like,
I understand, when you go back and marry your high
school girlfriend, right you were going out, you left, you
went to college, you circle back, Marrier, that's a love story.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
He's bailed twice. It's now it's just a hookup, right,
Like that's all it is. There's no love.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
It's a little I mean, it's the comfortable thing. I
will argue this all day long. So I made this
argument if Jalen Brown alone and it's just Maxy vj Edscombe,
Brown and Embiid. I think it's a bit of a mess.
I think if you add Lebron into that, you think, well, Colin,
(46:58):
it's one ball. I think Lebron's the balance in it
because Lebron one of the smartest basketball players I've ever seen.
He no longer is playing for anything other than winning
in fun. And you know what's fun winning by sixteen points,
that's fun. What's fun is playing with dudes Lebron's always had.
I mean, we've got to be honest about this. He
(47:20):
didn't go to LA they didn't have players. He's got
a knye for talent. Lebron's always been somebody if yeah,
you know, he knows who can play and who can
He bailed on a lot of those Laker guys early.
Now Josh Hart developed into a nice role player for
the Knicks. But my take is Philadelphia with Lebron, you
think it's you think it's an extra piece too many.
(47:42):
I think Philadelphia could be a bit of a mess.
If it's just Jalen Brown thinks he's the one, and
b does Max he does vj Edgecombe thinks he's no
worse than a two Lebron would be almost like the
parental figure, like guys I've been around, Like we're all
gonna have great nights. Lebron. Also, Jason could play forty
(48:04):
five games, could play twenty four minutes like Lebron could
come in and got just just say, hey, listen, we're
gonna play you fifty eight games. We're gonna give you
two road trips off. You don't have to go away,
you don't have to go goes to your family. That
becomes really really attractive. In my opinion, I think Philadelphia
works you.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, well, to your point, they got Dean Wade, who
I think can start at the four on games where
Lebron wants to take some time off. So I want
to be clear, Lebron going to Philly makes Philly so
much better and so much more interesting and so much
more compelling as a championship contender for exactly what you
just described, which is the embiid MAXI Jalen Brown thing
(48:46):
is a little clunky because Jalen Brown Jalen Brown is
hard to like. If I was a basketball coach and
I was coaching any of the NBA's teams and someone
was like, hey, my GM came to me, it was like, hey,
I traded for Jalen Brown. It would be hard for
me to be like, Okay, how do I fit him
into what we're doing? Because he is an on an
island player and he doesn't play super well off the ball,
and he has those the shortcomings, so that's naturally part
(49:09):
of it. Lebron would just come in and he would
quite literally grease the wheels on everything. Yes, yes, on
both on and off the floor. He would he would
essentially just make life easier for them navigating the season,
navigating that partnership, like he would help and be he'd
help him beat Brown and MAXI like learn how to
play with each other and learn how to find that groove.
And for that reason, by the way, I like Philly
(49:31):
as an option a heck of a lot more than Cleveland.
But it's part of it for me is I want
to see Lebron play in a situation that accentuates his strengths.
And his strengths are his basketball brain and his playmaking talent.
And that's why I look at teams like the Golden
State Warriors or Denver as teams that I like as
(49:52):
selfishly as a fan. I want to see him play there,
just because I know in Golden State. First of all,
those are some competitive dudes, Like those are do that
you want to talk about meeting the moment physically and competitively.
He would love Draymond and step for that reason, and
Steve Kerr. But like I imagine in Golden State, Lebron actually
being useful to them in his skill set on the
(50:12):
ball as everything is going on around him, because Steph
can play off the ball with Jokich, Like, Lebron's been
playing with Biggs, who can't shoot, ever since he left
Kevin Love in Cleveland, so he's been playing with some
rim protector parked under the basket waiting for him when
he gets there for years. So I'm selfishly like I
would love to watch Lebron with Jokich, who can pull
centers away. But the thing is is, Yo Denver's unrealistic
(50:36):
Golden State comes with a bunch of question marks. So
if it's between Cleveland Philly and Miami Philly is definitely
his best chance to win, and it's certainly a heck
of a lot better than Cleveland. I just think there's
some clunkiness there. I think Lebron would have some knights
in Philly where he's like, oh, I hated thirteen of
the shots that Tyres and Jalen took tonight. I think
(50:57):
he would have some I think he'd have some knights
where he was like where he calls his wife and
he's like, I'm in Philly tonight and I just stood
in the corner. Well, Jalen Brown shot us out of
a game, you know, Like what the hell am I doing?
Speaker 1 (51:09):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
It's like that's whereas like at least in Golden State,
it's like he's close to home. He's gonna have fun
playing there, even though he probably won't win. So, like,
I'll be honest with you, though, Colin, like if he
was gonna go to Cleveland, I feel like he would
have committed already because like, why would you drag it
out if he knew where, Like I keep coming down.
It's one of two things. Either he's known all along
(51:31):
and he's just dragging this out for fun, which seems unrealistic,
or he like legitimately doesn't know yet and he's like
waiting for one of these teams to make a move.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
I think I think it's a little bit of that.
I think he Lebron's too smart. Okay, he knows Golden
State's the most fun, but it's not a title team.
He knows Philadelphia is a chance to win a title
and nobody connection to Philadelphia. Cleveland's easiest for his family
along with Golden State. But there's a Harden issue. There's
a chemistry issue, chanting fright.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
He knows that team doesn't have it. Yeah, he knows
that team doesn't have it. There's no soul there. You
just watched them quit. So I think there's no perfect situation.
If the Sixers roster was in Cleveland, this thing would
have been done three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
It would be done. It would be absolutely right. You're
absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
The vo
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(01:11):
Colin s q U a r E dot com slash
go slash Colin. All right, Danny Parkins joining me. Spain
upset France. I'm gonna show you just to give you
some example of how into the World Cup I've been.
So did a day Champ, the manager of France Leaves
(01:35):
and Zennaday Zidon. The fact I got close on those,
it's really an achievement. You're crushing it, Colin, your crush.
But seriously, I thought, France. You know, it's really remarkable
how Spain matches up with France so basically until the end,
(01:59):
I mean, France had one shot on goal, I mean,
and then they got a couple.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
At the end.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Spain dominates possession. Spain's won thirty seven matches without losing.
They controlled possession. It reminded me a little bit in
the first few minutes, a little bit of United States Belgium,
where you watch this hyper aggressive team and within ninety
seconds we are pinned deep in our territory and we
can't get it out. And I'm watching Spain do the
(02:28):
same thing to France, where France can't maintain possessions they're
pinned deep. Spain had multiple opportunities and like our goalie,
the goalie for France, you know, by no means lost
the game, but was a little indecisive, was a little
(02:48):
sketchy early. But I was just taken by and soccer
can do this almost like no other sport, an incredibly gifted,
confident team with in ninety seconds. It is basically holding
on for dear life. And it just jumped through the
television to me.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, we got to do We were like the we're
the second post game show. You know, I'm sure the
majority of the people were with his lot On and
Thiery and Alexi and Rebecca, but if you switched over
to FS one, we did an hour of post on
it and I was really proud of it. I thought
we did a good job at the ot. It was listen.
I picked Spain in the game. I picked Spain before
(03:32):
the tournament to win it. The frontline attacking of France
is remarkable. Spain's allowed one goal all tournament. Spain beat
France in the Euros in twenty twenty four. Spain beat
France in the Semis. By the way, in the Euros
they beat him in the Semis of the nation's league
in twenty twenty five, and they just beat him in
(03:52):
the semis of the twenty twenty six World Cup. So
the thirty seven match streak for Spain that you're talking about, Yeah,
but three of them will come against France, like they
just their defense knows what to do, and I thought
it was suffocating. And sometimes I think like a little
thing can happen and it can balloon to a medium
sized thing and then a large thing, and it was
(04:13):
just a snowball effect for France. Like they got a
yellow card in the eighth minute, they allowed the goal
in the twenty second minute after the penalty on Jamal
allows for the free kick for oh yards of ball.
Then their probably second best defensive player gets hurt in
the twenty ninth minute, and all of a sudden, you're
thirty minutes into the game. You're trailing for the first
(04:35):
time you have all tournament. One of your players is
a yellow card, another of your players has had the
sub out that you fouled their nineteen year old phenom,
and like, oh, play where there was not really any
chance of giving up a goal in that spot, and
you give up a goal and you're down one nothing,
and it just it got away from him really quick
and trailing a team like Spain. I mean, Spain has
(04:59):
allowed one goal the whole tournament. The record, the World
Cup record for a World Cup champion is two. It's
been done three times. So we went we're going to
go from like if Spain shuts out Argentina or England,
we will go from weeks of talking about this is
France's World's Cup to lose. France is the best offensive
(05:20):
team we've ever seen. France is the best collection of
offensive talent we've ever seen. So it will immediately pivot
to Spain just turned in the best defensive performance in
the history of the World's Cup.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know, we've said this before, is that great defense
when it meets a great offense, the defense almost always wins.
It's almost always because what you're doing, a great defense
speeds up everything you do offensively. So France was struggling
to maintain possessions. It's like I've used the example before.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
If you're a you.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Know, you're a typist, and you type sixty words a
minute and I say type ninety, you make more mistakes?
Right if you watched we knew the Patriots o line
wasn't great against the Seahawks defensive front.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Everything New England.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Did had to be a beat and a half faster,
and their efficiency drops through the floor. I mean, that's
what if you go look at Mahomes the last two years,
no run game, below average protection against good teams. His
efficiency Patrick Mahomes falls through the floor. Is on target
percentage dropped, every all of the efficiency stuff dropped and
(06:26):
he's the best quarterback in the world until then. So
I think it's one of those I just sort of thought, well,
France has an all star team, but you know, it's
another example of a great defense kind of suffocating and
taking a great offense out of its element.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
There's no question that's what happened. It's what I mean,
it's what they did to Portugal. Not that there is
great of an offense, but like France, Spain hasn't really
been in danger of losing, like they had to draw
against Cape Verde early, which I think turned everybody off
to Spain. Their best player, Lamin Yamal, started the tournament
(07:08):
coming off of the hamstring injury, so he only played
fifty two minutes in the first two matches, and then
they had the weird draw to kate Verde, which ended
up aging pretty well because kate Verde took Argentina to
the break to the brink and lost three to an
extra time in the whole thing, so like not as
embarrassing of a result for Spain. But I think what
(07:28):
happened in this World's Cup was because Harry Kane and
Jude Bellingen and Messi and in Bape and all of
the stars on the star leaden teams were scoring a
ton of goals and it was like, well, Spain's not
scoring a ton of goals and their star isn't the
guy that we hyped up is like, this is the
next Pele, this is the phenom Yamal is this eighteen
(07:50):
year old wizard and all that. But he's had like
a slow, weird World Cup. Everyone's just been talking about
the goals scoring because offense is easier for us to
consume the Golden boot race and you put up a
leader board and then it's like, oh, wait, Spain's allowed
one goal the whole tournament, right, Okay, yeah they're probably
gonna win.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, it's it's been remarkable. And I said this that
there is not Arling Holland today is more well known
than any hockey hockey player outside of Wayne Gretzky in
my life, you know. I mean, if you go Earling
Holland now has sixty six million followers on Instagram. The
(08:34):
top IG performer in the NHL has two IG's not everything,
but it's something. It's a pretty good indicator of global stardom.
And I said this. When Tiger entered the PGA, it spiked,
but when he took certain tournaments off, the ratings went away.
Because golf has always been and I love it, fairly elitist.
(08:57):
It's hard. Lots of people start and quit. Very few
people actually play at a high level. Caitlin Clark comes
to the WNBA, it spikes. To this day when she plays,
a million people watch. She doesn't three hundred and fifty thousand.
Soccer's different, we're out. The numbers are still remarkable. And
so if you're asking staying power much more than golf,
(09:20):
much more than tennis, much more than hockey, you can
have sensational star players. And I'm not saying it's the NFL,
but what I've watched from attendance, this is non USA games,
from attendance to merchandise to passion when we're not playing,
where do we put it in our sports ecosystem?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So I heard this take from you earlier today, and
I guess what I would say is, this is a
perfect storm of events that is happening. It's in our
time zone, so we can we can watch every game.
The stars are playing and playing well, scoring goals, like
(10:06):
I just mentioned, the Marquee brands are advancing deep, like
we didn't just get Egypt Switzerland, we got Spain France.
That helps. And the World's Cup is awesome. And I
have no doubt that you know my six year old
I've told you about him before, like he now has
a couple of soccer jerseys, he went to a soccer camp,
like I have no doubt at all that millions and
(10:28):
millions of people will play soccer and it will continue
to grow. I do have some skepticism that, like the
MLS is about to become more popular than the NBA.
I don't think that. I don't think that because I
think in my experience as someone who falls for soccer
every World's Cup. Yeah, it is hard to transition back
(10:49):
to the MLS when the talent is just so noticeably
less and the intensity is noticeably less, even if it
is growing and good business. And I wish I would
have bought it ten years ago when you tried to.
But like, I'm not waking up at six in the
morning and watching the EPL, which is at least like
(11:09):
a closer level of talents to these World Cup games.
So it's like when you go back and watch the
American soccer the MLS in our time zones, and it's
three or four levels lower than what we're watching right now.
I don't know that that momentum is going to carry
where I can say that soccer is going to still
be in the American zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But it's interesting because we love I've gone to Wimbledon. Well,
the only major sporting event I haven't gone to and
I want to is the US Open, but it always
falls in late August. I'm on vacation this year. I
may go for in Flushing Meadows for a night. It's
supposed to be just just a rocking event, just in
a remarkable by.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
The way, I hadn't done it until I moved to
New York and Nick had been telling me to do it.
I've done it the last two years. Come out, Let's
go together.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
You me fun.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Oh my god, it's awesome, and you'll get us good seats,
so that'll be cool. And the honey Deuce's great cocktail
with little pieces of melon in it. It's it's it's listen.
Any sport at the highest level is awesome. That's the truth.
If you're like you and me and you love sports,
any sport at the highest level is awesome. The US
(12:22):
Open is a great event.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And we know as Americans we never have the top player,
but we still in New York.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's the ticket.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Oh yeah, okay, So my point, I guess my point
is this, you go to Europe, they love the NFL.
Last time I was in Europe in Madrid, I saw
NFL jerseys. Is the truth is the NFL is getting
really popular overseas and tennis, and when we host the
Olympics in this country with a lot of events we're
not great at, it's wildly popular. And soccer is incredibly popular.
(12:54):
This is where the globalization is real. Is that Americans,
like I mean, let's be honest, every American I know
loves going to Europe, loves Italy, they love London, like
this idea that stuff. We have to wrap everything in
a flag we all acknowledge as Americans the MLS. It's
(13:15):
kind of Triple A baseball compared to the English Premier League.
So a lot of my friends I noticed this. I
told you when I'm married Anne. One of the things
I noticed because we lived in the Boston Red Sox
Yankee zone right in New England. Her sons would get
up on Saturday morning and they would watch the English
Premier League. And I remember telling her, I'm like, man,
(13:35):
is this a cautionary tale on what's happening to baseball.
We're in Red Sox territory. Those kids have no interest
in baseball. They're totally into soccer and the FIFA soccer games.
So my take is the World Cup. We love soccer
in America, but we want the best stuff, and at
this point, the MLS, although it's better today than it
(13:56):
was ten years ago, we view it as kind of
Triple A baseball.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Absolutely, and like I have no doubt, like I like,
like I said, I wish, I you know, I would
have loved to have ownership in an MLS team, Not
that I carry it like that, but like and yeah,
like EPL rights would probably be a good business to
be in. But it's it is tough to sell. I
got I'm going to wake up at six seven in
the morning on Saturday and not play with my kids
(14:22):
or go to my kids soccer. And like me personally,
I'm kind of at my bandwidth on like the amount
of weekend time I can spend watching sports away from
my wife and kids, Like I don't. I don't have
it in me to become like a Man City fan
and become like dedicated to it. But there's no question
that this thing, it keeps growing and world cups like
(14:43):
this one that are spectacular that everybody can watch, that
tens of millions of people will watch non US games.
Of course there will be a ripple effect to some
people are going to just follow Erling Holland and him
to his teams. Some people will follow Jamaal and Harry
(15:04):
Kane or Bellingham or like whoever they've fallen for in
this tournament. And of course it's going to keep It
is clearly a sport where the arrow is pointing up.
I just personally, I don't know if you're not watching
it in prime time in America, night in and night out,
(15:24):
I don't know that it's going to enter the zeitgeys like,
do you see yourself doing EPL topics over baseball topics
anytime soon? No? No, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
But not everything that's wildly popular is topical on my show.
As you know, there are like there are just things
that are that are Like the Olympics are great. I
don't talk Olympics. I can't use any footage. NBC doesn't
allow it. Frankly, ESPN is not allowed to use a
lot of footage of the World Cup, so it limits
their you know, coverage of it to a large degree.
So I guess my take is, which is it doesn't
(16:02):
have to be in America to be wildly popular. I
think and I think the the ire and the income levels.
This is something that you know, it's it's uncomfortable to
talk about, but the income levels of soccer fans are
up there with golf and tennis. You get educated one
hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred and fifty thousand
dollar incomes. It's it's not a tractor pull man, it's
(16:25):
it is going. It is high end stuff. I've had
probably a half dozen friends who have made a trip
to either golf in like Ireland or go to an
English Premier League match, Like that's that is something you know,
Like my friends if they're going to Europe and I said, oh,
what are you going to do in Europe? Like almost
every guy I know has gone to an English Premier
League match.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I'm you know, I've been contacting one of the people
I've talked to on the air.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I'm going to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
So it's I just think, as I've aged, stuff like
this is much more interesting, Like I'm there's a lot
of minutia that you and I avoid some of it.
You got you know, you get into the hamster wheel,
love it, and I've just felt this is so refreshing
and so fun. Then it's like, yeah, I want to
extend this a little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I love that. I love that you're swept up in it.
And also yeah, like it's a you're gonna you're gonna
take a flight to Madrid and go see a game,
Like it's not a bad it's you know what I mean.
It's yeah, it's it's not it's not It's not a
bad way to live if you've got the means to
do it, And it is just a I think that
(17:35):
it's we love events right like in the in a
world of uh splintered attention spans, and there are seemingly
even if it's not true, the algorithm kind of makes
us feel like we are more at each other's throats,
more divisive, have less in common. An event like this
(17:58):
happens and it's not in Qatar or Saudi Arabia or Spain, Portugal,
Morocco like in four years, it's just right in front
of us. And even if you couldn't afford to go,
and I attended zero matches. You know, my wife and
I did a date night in Brooklyn. The World Cup
matches are going on on Saturday. We were just like,
(18:18):
we're going to just go explore Brooklyn and bounce around
and go to different spots, but with the intent of,
like we want to watch the games. There are seventeen
different options watch parties in the street, high end restaurant,
cocktail lounge, showing the game like it it is. It
is just it was so totally embedded everywhere we were going,
(18:40):
you know, like that that I think brings a lot
of people together and just will have a very like
word association like soccer positive. You know, because because so
many people were just like had had some touch point
with this World's Cup even if it was. My wife's
(19:01):
family is from Lawrence, Kansas, where KU is, and they
were the base camp for Algeria, and they just thought
it was like really really cool how many Algerians came
to their college town and then the college town welcomed
the Algerians and it was beautiful. So like you could
be in New York City or Lawrence, Kansas and you
had some sort of touch point with this World's Cup.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, yeah, the two groups that love it are young
people under thirty and people with money that are over fifty.
Those are good groups to have at your disposal. And
also it's also a sport that is a city sport Miami,
San Francisco, La, New York, Philadelphia. That's not to say
I don't love it in Kansas City, but it really
at college football sometimes or college basketball feels like almost
(19:46):
like the country. It's small towns. Soccer's big city is.
It thrives in big diverse areas. It could be Rome,
it could be London, it could be New York. And
you know the other thing that it is and I'm
maybe I'm being too you know, jingoist. You know the
ultimate patriot here, but it is. Our economy is much
bigger than even like the UK, like like it, and
(20:08):
it's exploded over the last decade.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
We've pulled away.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
From Europe economically. You know Singapore has money, Zurich, you know, Qutar,
we know that, but Europe doesn't have our money, the
amount of money people pay for fans. We have the
NHL in the NFL, and Major League Baseball in the WNBA,
and a massive college system. We have all these pro leagues.
They have the English Premier League and cricket. The fact
(20:34):
that we have all these leagues, you bring your sport over,
it's twenty five hundred ticket and you can't get one
for any game in any city. I really think it
speaks to the consumption and the passion we have for sports.
I constantly hear how divided we are. American fans have
(20:54):
been unbelievable. You're not seeing fights.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
People have just.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Relished the opportunity UNDERNEA to flex and show off and
be great, great hosts. And we don't say that enough
about our sports fans. I'm blown away by how we've reacted.
When you consider Danny, how much sports, how many options.
I'm not even counting like high school sports. That's a
(21:21):
massive business in America AAU basketball. So I've been blown
away by America our commitment, our passion, and our and
our graciousness.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I'm with you. I love sports. I love how much
everybody seems to around us love sports because it pays
for my kids education. By the way, I'll just do
a shout out here if anyone wants to take me
to the World's Cup final in Jersey or New York.
I've been to a game yet. It's right down the road,
but the get in price is like eight grand ticket
and I'm not gonna do it way one of these
(21:56):
trendous sponsors. I'll tell you, I'll tell you great stories.
But no, it's and like I know you mentioned Kansas
City kind of like as a placeholder. Kansas City is
like the soccer capital of the country. Crazy of their
weight class. They're number one of the TV ratings for everything.
Orlando too. Yeah, just like so shout out to my
old home in case, but no, I think that, like listen,
(22:18):
it's sometimes it is cliche the like sports bring people
together because we do, like the Disney movie, and we
sometimes want more more of like a burden on the
athletes to bring us together. And you know the bad
actors will say shut up and dribble and like it.
It can be used to be divisive, but like and
(22:39):
its core, it's just it is a unifier and it
is such a great event. And I know we are
two people who work for Fox and sound like corporate
shills here, but like the data backs us up. Everybody
is loving it. Everybody is loving it right, like the
President is talking about it. People on the left, people
(23:00):
on the right, old, young, to your point, like different
socioeconomic classes. I will miss it when the World Cup ends.
It will be very interesting to see if we get
as swept up in it four years from now when
the time zones just make it a little bit more complicated.
Oh yeah, you know what I mean. Like again, like
(23:21):
this really was. Yes, this was a perfect storm to
catch us in the right pat Like again, if if
it's in what Saudi Arabia and then they aired in
October because of the heat, and then it.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Goes you lose forty percent of the numbers and.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It goes up against NFL. You know, it's just so
like but it's okay. It's it's a moment in time,
and it's an awesome moment in time.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
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gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler. I like new stuff.
I'm not terribly romantic about sports. I kind of like
(25:59):
new trends, and so I've always liked analytics. I have, however,
pushed back on I do think the NBA and baseball,
which are very analytically driven, postseason baseball is different. You'll
use starters out of the bullpen, you'll manage different in
the postseason. You'll you'll take bigger risks because your season's
on the line. So you have to be careful about analytics.
(26:21):
Plays well to the volume, not necessarily all post season situation.
Same in the NBA. So a lot of times you
just need a basket. It doesn't you know, you don't
need a three. You need a high percentage two to
take take a two point ly to a four and
seal the game, like we all know that. So I
do think it's fascinating with the Celtics trading Jalen Brown
(26:44):
because he is one of those rare players. I don't
know if I told you. The first time I heard
analytics was Monte Ellis, who's a really athletic guy for
the Warriors, and people are like, you know, he's bad analytically,
And we didn't even talk much about analytics then. And
then there's like guys like Trey Young. I think RJ
it's the guy that's got and got beat up by
the analytic crew. So Jalen Brown's fascinating though, because we
(27:05):
can see the weaknesses of Trey Young, right, like he's
a poor defensive player, he's a small frame, or you
watch other players and say, well, he's just not a
great player. Jalen Brown's one of the first plays both
ends a lot of points, excellent defensive effort, and then
you just start looking at numbers, and the most fascinating
(27:26):
stuff to me is so the Celtics were nine and
two this year when Jalen Brown didn't play. Now, what
makes that kind of shocking is Tatum wasn't even in
some of those games.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
So you would.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Think if Brown and Tatum are out, they were atrocious,
like they were nine and two, and then you say, okay, okay,
Jason tim that is a one year deal. You go
to the previous year when Tatum was healthy and they
were fifteen and four without Brown. Now they had Horford Porzingis,
they had a lot of offensive web Okay, they say, oh, okay,
(28:00):
so let's go to the title year. That was the
year of Jalen Brown emerging. They went twelve and zero
without Jalen Brown on the floor in the regular season.
So you start adding these up and Jalen Brown. It's
why this is one of the reasons this is hard
for us, because you and I are conditioned that twenty
eighty game and a willing defender that's a top seven
(28:20):
player in the league. Like, there's just not that many guys. No,
It's like even when Klay Thompson was more of a
catch and shoot guy, wasn't driving the offense, but he
played really good defense. Here. I used to argue, he's
the only player in the league that would start for
every team, even like Steph would get in the way
of certain teams, Like I look at Jalen Brown, I'm like, well,
(28:42):
he would start for every team, but he's fundamentally in
a formulaic offense. Kind of a problem when Tatum's on
the floor, and it's hard to reconcile that my entire
life is twenty eighty game and plays.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I don't care your.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Turnover ratio is since the turnover So that part of
Jalen Brown, I think is new.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
We don't quite know what to do with.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Like, he's a borderline all NBA guy and he gets
a way of winning for the self. That to me
is hard for fans, hard for me when I start
deep diving on these numbers. You have defended him, and
by the way, you and I for three years have
said this, but what do you do when you see
those numbers?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
You can't ignore him. I think there's a certain amount
of when there's enough circumstantial evidence from enough different avenues,
it has to mean something like I'm not a big
believer in like like arguing in the face of bald
face data, right, So like it's very clear that there
are some strong like metric markers that the team is
(29:51):
better when Jalen Brown doesn't play. I don't like ignoring
that completely. I think it's because of a variety of reasons.
He plays on an island, so his style of the
offense doesn't fit well with other players.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Like they're a fast pass, fast shoot team.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, they need rhythm, they need the ball to pop around.
He was a below average He was forty fifth percentile
spot at player last year, so below average spotting up.
So he struggles when the ball's getting moved to him
out of other action. On defense, he's outstanding on the ball,
but he can be inattentive and lazy off the ball.
That all is going to kind of accumulate into what
affects those advanced metrics. I think that people pitch advanced
(30:32):
metrics and catch alls. They pitch the advantage in the
large sample of data. I would argue that's actually the
disadvantage of that kind of data, because the truth of
the matter is in an eighty two game regular season,
there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of bad basketball.
There's a lot of nights in there where you play
(30:53):
against teams that aren't in the championship picture at all whatsoever.
As a matter of fact, it's really only about like
team games you play a year that are against the
teams that are actually really in the mix, that have
the elite defenses, the superstar talent, and the things that
are going to actually test your your system in a
real way. And so what happens is in those playoff
(31:16):
situations where you need a bucket similar those situations are
a very unique circumstance that doesn't really show up much
in an eighty two game sample size of data. So
I think what ends up happening is you have a
system in Boston, which this is a credit to Boston
from the top down. They're so well run that in
that eighty two they just chew up and spit out teams.
(31:37):
They just chew them up and spin them out. Ye,
So they just put together a lot of really strong
data over the eighty two And in that there's probably
a lot of nights where you're playing the Wizards and
the Brown units aren't moving the ball really well and
he's being lazy on defense, and it hurts the data.
And then incomes a bench group led by you know,
Peyton Pritzard and Jason Tatum, and they beat the heck
out of them, and it continues to throw off the data.
(31:59):
But then you like one of the Celtics struggled against
good teams all year last year, except for there was
a big game late in the year against Oklahoma City
where they were they were playing OKC and nobody on
the Celtics could score, and Jason or Jalen Brown was
staring down Alex Caruso and Lou Dor two of the
very best perimeter defenders in the league, and just barbecuing
(32:20):
them over and over again and scoring in the Celtics won,
And it's like, that's what I keep coming back to,
is like, again the large sample, there's some value there.
I do think it's revealing of some of the shortcomings
in Jason jaln Brown's game, but he is one of
the apex athletes in this league that thrives in the
biggest settings. Again, one of I think one of the
most iconic performances individually of this entire last decade is
(32:45):
Jalen Brown picking up Luka Doncics full court for an
entire NBA Finals, picking him clean and dunking it on
the other end and just making him miserably uncomfortable for
five games while they beat the heck out of the
MAVs and won the titles. So it's like, ultimately, that's
why I say I l end in the middle, because
I'm not going to ignore the data and pretend like
there aren't weaknesses in Jalen Brown's game. But I think
(33:07):
that those I think basketball is more art than science sometimes,
and I think that we forget that a lot of
times it comes down to not the large sample, but
can I score on this guy or can I guard
this guy? And Jalen Brown is just one of the
very best ats solving that specific problem on both ends
of the floor.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
So I want to end for about five minutes talking
about the World Cup because I think it's really interesting.
I think you and I I don't know if you
and I have talked about this, but I've always thought
the NBA is very similar, the most similar to international
elite soccer.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Where.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
It is star driven at times star reliant, the very
best can often have long careers, and it's art. There's
a lot of fluidity to basketball. There's open floor, open canvas,
open pitch that you know you can't You can coach,
but don't over coach. That's a real problem. And it's
(34:02):
the same in soccer. Like you want open play, dribbling, passing,
let people create Labla. I mean even like a messy
where he just kind of floats, you know, he's not
part of the offense. He just sort of floats and
waits for opportunities to score. He's like almost disconnected from
the team. And that's totally understood. And it's interesting the
(34:24):
NFL and now college sports because of the NIL but
most of our lives, the NFL is not incremental. You
draft Drake may or Caleb Williams, you get him a
coach by their second year, and it's like, holy shit.
Ones in the Super Bowl one could have been like,
it's not incremental. You get seven rounds of picks. There's
(34:45):
a ton of undrafted players or seventh round players brock
pretty who make your team and can flourish.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
It's just different NBA.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
After about the fifteenth pick, man, you are crossing your
fingers and just open. Somebody fits. So all sports are incremental.
Baseball players you draft them, they're in the minors for years. Basketball,
if you can get one starter out of the draft,
I mean even in the top twelve picks, you feel
really good about a draft. Forget two or three starters.
(35:12):
Soccer in this country and it's been interesting to watch
the coverage and every four years we lament how we're
you know, we're not competitive, and it's like, guys, this
is incremental, like we only have one beer in the country.
That's as old as Belgium has been playing soccer.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Like it's like sorry, like it's just it's old.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Like. So my interpretation all this is is I don't
freak out when we lose. I thought we're bad in goal.
We usually aren't. It was an ugly second half. It
felt like you got humiliated. That pisses Americans off, Like
that really stings. But somebody that watches basketball more than
anybody I know that. I'm sure you engaged in some
(35:53):
of the World Cup and you do see the symmetry
between the two.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
What has been kind of.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Your like takeaway on the United States maybe the World
Cup in general? This this this sense that, oh my god,
we never get better at this stuff because you're you
tend to contextualize everything really well and you put you
pump the brakes and a lot of the you know,
clickie stuff. What's kind of been your interpretation on all
of it.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I've so enjoyed the World Cup this year. It was
in Vegas. Obviously they have it playing everywhere. It was
kind of interesting having it go on at the same
time as Summer League. Yeah, I I honestly thought that
the USA loss was as much about the moment and
us just kind of not quite being ready. Yeah, there
(36:37):
was some the sequences early in the game where it
just felt like we were slow to the ball, Like
it just felt like it almost felt like like we
weren't ready for the level of intensity that we needed
in that moment. That that one, that ball that popped
up right in front of the goal, that everyone just
stood around and watched, and the next thing you know,
they're jumping on it and scoring. I And then that
(36:57):
the I would just say, what happened on that that
third goal was as close to the yips as it gets.
I mean that he drives his foot into the ground
like literally he just could have kicked the ball away,
and you're in You're in great shape, you're down one goal,
you have a chance. And that's really the thing. Like
I I do believe that there's there's the skill development
and the maturity piece, but there's also like sometimes you
(37:19):
need to lose or be embarrassed even to understand next
time you find yourself in that situation that you bring
the requisite intensity, that you bring the requisite I always
refer to it as like scar tissue. That's how I
feel about san Antonio, Like, you don't think those guys
are beating themselves up about what happened. You don't think
Victor weman Yama took a discount because he saw Jalen
(37:39):
Brunson take a discount. And then when Finals MVP. You know,
like these things when you're you're talking about competitiveness, which
I agree. I think it's literally one of the most
important traits for any for any athlete, And like all
the smart teams that you talk to, that's like near
the top of the list of character traits they're looking
for when they're interviewing, when they're interviewing points.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
My scout is when I talk to NBA scout, that
is huge. That is like after natural talent. It's like,
I mean one of the knocks on Car for the
Lakers was one of my scouts that he's a little finesse,
he can play, he's long, he plays big, he can
be a little finesse like that just that's very you
hear that from any NBA scout who's worked for years.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, it's like the way I've described it on my
show is like I want someone that hates losing more
than they love winning. I want someone who like when
they win, they experience more of a relief that they
avoided losing right than just like joyous want to go
celebrate like it's it's weird, like the best winners of
all time they win and then they're unsatisfied because all
(38:42):
they really have done is just stave off a loss
a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's really all they've done.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
And like, I think that honestly, like Pulisits for example,
that was kind of the thing that stood out to
me where it just kind of it didn't even seem
like he wanted to be there as much as like
some of the other stars representing their countries. And I don't, no,
Pulsit's well enough to like stand on that and to
take it to some sort of extreme, but it just
there was like a palpable energy. When you watched Earl Alan,
(39:10):
or when you watch Harry Kane or you watch Leo Messi,
there's like a there's like a they feel like this
is the biggest, most important thing they're going to do
over the course of these four years and I think
I think that our skill level is growing. The talent
was undeniable. I did think that we looked small against
several of the teams we played, even Bosnia. I was like,
Bosnia looks bigger than us, Like that was something that
(39:31):
stood out.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, I think we need to get we have to
upgrade it goal and I said this, I think we
need some size. I think we're our skills grown. But
you know, Rinaldo's big, Holland's big, Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham.
Length matters in every sport in the world.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Length, there's another word that NBA scouts talk about, like
you know.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
There was an article I read this weekend of the
Many and they went back to Pochattino when he first
took over the United States men's national team, and one
of the things he had to break down he said,
we were a bit of a country club, like guys
would take time off to golf or go out and
it's like, yeah, that can't be it. And so I
think it's one of my knocks on United States men's
(40:15):
national team soccer, and I've been really supportive through the years,
is we're not real hard, you know, like like, and
it was that when people used to compare. Anytime people
would criticize, like Draymond Green, I always said, if you
took Draymond at that Warrior team, they weren't hard. He
made them hard his screens.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
It's like the Bulls.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Those guys were hard, like I mean just down though,
like who coach found out and he was a teammate
of them. It's like practice was hard. And I do
think I think that criticism of United States soccer is no,
I'm not saying country club, but it doesn't feel as
hard as it needs to be. And I just mean
(40:59):
a little bit of an edge, little ass kicking that stuff.
You know. I sound very old school, but I'm sorry,
Like the New York Knicks kind of pushed the Spurs around.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
They did.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I'm sorry, guys against kids. So I think your interpretation
And this is why I asked, because you're not doing
it all day. Like sometimes my wife will say something
about sports. No she doesn't know, but she'll say something
about twice a year and I'm like, God, that's a.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I didn't even see that.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I'm so into the weeds on all these things I do,
so I like asking people that don't cover the NFL
about the NFL, or don't cover baseball, and so your
interpretation as largely as you feel like there was a.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Grit, there were a little yeah, like hit first, don't
wait to be hit.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
I mean like the head the play that I'm talking
about with that loose ball right in front of the
net that like three USA players just stood and watched
twelve Belgium scoring, or like the play where Tim Reim
and I'm sorry, I can't remember the player's name that
went over the top of him and just headed it in.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
All the Belgian strike.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was their first goal if I
remember it might have been there. Yeah, it was either there.
I think it was their first of their second goal.
But like Tim Reim was just kind of late to
the contact and so even though he was like because
the kid who went over the top of him was tall,
but he was kind of thin. And I remember sitting
there thinking like if Tim Reim just like kind of
meets meets him first, like hits first rather than waiting
(42:20):
to be hit, Like I feel like that's half the
battle in every sport. It's it's one of the reasons
why like people get so hung up on officiating when
the other team is shooting more free throws, because they'll
be like, they're fouling us, Why are they getting away
with it? And I have found at every single level,
from when I coached in high school to when I
played in college to when I've watched the pros to
even money tournaments and men's leagues and everything under the sun,
(42:43):
when you come out and you play physically aggressive, when
you bring the fight to the other team, you get
a better whistle. It's the craziest thing. And it's simply
because you're beating them to spots and so they are
out of position, and then they end up reacting to
your contact and get into trouble with the officials. Like
you have to bring the fight to the other team.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
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until nine twenty seven, twenty twenty six. We've talked about this.
(44:08):
I was a college official, eight dollars a game. I
was a kid from divorce. I officiated games, basketball games,
and it was the first light bulb moment. The football
players who played intermural basketball to stay in shape in
the offseason, they got the whistle. They weren't very artistic.
(44:29):
It was sloppy. They'd get right down into the paint
and they'd come flying around and it was awful, ugly basketball.
And they got the whistle. And it's like, I really
remember just thinking it changed the way I perceived basketball.
I'm like, they're just always a step ahead. They're aggressive,
and often the more athletic or fluid basketball player, he
just doesn't He's a step behind, so he's grabbing, he's lunging,
(44:52):
he's lated position. I'm glad you said that because that
is a lot of pro sports. There's a lot of
six eight guys with lanch who can hit a jumper
that never become good NBA players. They just don't have
that Kobe thing. They just don't have that edge and
that animal that just almost animosity toward anybody who would
They're almost outraged that you would think you could stop them,
(45:15):
and it's like almost illusional, a little crazy. Jay glazer
Awa says, you gotta be a little off to be
a Hall of Famer. Some wiring's not quite right.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I don't want to get into the Lebron thing because
it'll be a whole conversation. But this is why I
hope he doesn't go to Cleveland, because you know who
doesn't have that hit first, Like we're the tougher team. Mentality,
That Cavs team straight up quit against the Knicks. They
straight up quit and like all like and I understand
the storyline and I get it, and like all Calves
(45:47):
fans are all very hyped up right now, and he
certainly is the favorite to go there. By the way,
the word in Vegas is no one knows, No one
has any idea where Lebron's going, right, But like the if,
I'm just gonna be so disappointed if he goes there,
because I just don't think that team has the I
don't think they can match it.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
I think I got blown out in three of the
four games against the next I mean the average was
over like fifteen points. They got blown out.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
They quit.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
And the other thing, the other thing is he's dumped
Cleveland twice. Let's let's stop with the romanticism of it. Like,
I understand, when you go back and marry your high
school girlfriend, right you were going out, you left, you
went to college, you circle back, Marrier, that's a love story.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
He's bailed twice. It's now it's just a hookup, right,
Like that's all it is. There's no love.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
It's a little I mean, it's the comfortable thing. I
will argue this all day long. So I made this
argument if Jalen Brown alone and it's just Maxy vj Edscombe,
Brown and Embiid. I think it's a bit of a mess.
I think if you add Lebron into that, you think, well, Colin,
(46:58):
it's one ball. I think Lebron's the balance in it
because Lebron one of the smartest basketball players I've ever seen.
He no longer is playing for anything other than winning
in fun. And you know what's fun winning by sixteen points,
that's fun. What's fun is playing with dudes Lebron's always had.
I mean, we've got to be honest about this. He
(47:20):
didn't go to LA they didn't have players. He's got
a knye for talent. Lebron's always been somebody if yeah,
you know, he knows who can play and who can
He bailed on a lot of those Laker guys early.
Now Josh Hart developed into a nice role player for
the Knicks. But my take is Philadelphia with Lebron, you
think it's you think it's an extra piece too many.
(47:42):
I think Philadelphia could be a bit of a mess.
If it's just Jalen Brown thinks he's the one, and
b does Max he does vj Edgecombe thinks he's no
worse than a two Lebron would be almost like the
parental figure, like guys I've been around, Like we're all
gonna have great nights. Lebron. Also, Jason could play forty
(48:04):
five games, could play twenty four minutes like Lebron could
come in and got just just say, hey, listen, we're
gonna play you fifty eight games. We're gonna give you
two road trips off. You don't have to go away,
you don't have to go goes to your family. That
becomes really really attractive. In my opinion, I think Philadelphia
works you.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, well, to your point, they got Dean Wade, who
I think can start at the four on games where
Lebron wants to take some time off. So I want
to be clear, Lebron going to Philly makes Philly so
much better and so much more interesting and so much
more compelling as a championship contender for exactly what you
just described, which is the embiid MAXI Jalen Brown thing
(48:46):
is a little clunky because Jalen Brown Jalen Brown is
hard to like. If I was a basketball coach and
I was coaching any of the NBA's teams and someone
was like, hey, my GM came to me, it was like, hey,
I traded for Jalen Brown. It would be hard for
me to be like, Okay, how do I fit him
into what we're doing? Because he is an on an
island player and he doesn't play super well off the ball,
and he has those the shortcomings, so that's naturally part
(49:09):
of it. Lebron would just come in and he would
quite literally grease the wheels on everything. Yes, yes, on
both on and off the floor. He would he would
essentially just make life easier for them navigating the season,
navigating that partnership, like he would help and be he'd
help him beat Brown and MAXI like learn how to
play with each other and learn how to find that groove.
And for that reason, by the way, I like Philly
(49:31):
as an option a heck of a lot more than Cleveland.
But it's part of it for me is I want
to see Lebron play in a situation that accentuates his strengths.
And his strengths are his basketball brain and his playmaking talent.
And that's why I look at teams like the Golden
State Warriors or Denver as teams that I like as
(49:52):
selfishly as a fan. I want to see him play there,
just because I know in Golden State. First of all,
those are some competitive dudes, Like those are do that
you want to talk about meeting the moment physically and competitively.
He would love Draymond and step for that reason, and
Steve Kerr. But like I imagine in Golden State, Lebron actually
being useful to them in his skill set on the
(50:12):
ball as everything is going on around him, because Steph
can play off the ball with Jokich, Like, Lebron's been
playing with Biggs, who can't shoot, ever since he left
Kevin Love in Cleveland, so he's been playing with some
rim protector parked under the basket waiting for him when
he gets there for years. So I'm selfishly like I
would love to watch Lebron with Jokich, who can pull
centers away. But the thing is is, Yo Denver's unrealistic
(50:36):
Golden State comes with a bunch of question marks. So
if it's between Cleveland Philly and Miami Philly is definitely
his best chance to win, and it's certainly a heck
of a lot better than Cleveland. I just think there's
some clunkiness there. I think Lebron would have some knights
in Philly where he's like, oh, I hated thirteen of
the shots that Tyres and Jalen took tonight. I think
(50:57):
he would have some I think he'd have some knights
where he was like where he calls his wife and
he's like, I'm in Philly tonight and I just stood
in the corner. Well, Jalen Brown shot us out of
a game, you know, Like what the hell am I doing?
Speaker 1 (51:09):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
It's like that's whereas like at least in Golden State,
it's like he's close to home. He's gonna have fun
playing there, even though he probably won't win. So, like,
I'll be honest with you, though, Colin, like if he
was gonna go to Cleveland, I feel like he would
have committed already because like, why would you drag it
out if he knew where, Like I keep coming down.
It's one of two things. Either he's known all along
(51:31):
and he's just dragging this out for fun, which seems unrealistic,
or he like legitimately doesn't know yet and he's like
waiting for one of these teams to make a move.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
I think I think it's a little bit of that.
I think he Lebron's too smart. Okay, he knows Golden
State's the most fun, but it's not a title team.
He knows Philadelphia is a chance to win a title
and nobody connection to Philadelphia. Cleveland's easiest for his family
along with Golden State. But there's a Harden issue. There's
a chemistry issue, chanting fright.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
He knows that team doesn't have it. Yeah, he knows
that team doesn't have it. There's no soul there. You
just watched them quit. So I think there's no perfect situation.
If the Sixers roster was in Cleveland, this thing would
have been done three weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
It would be done. It would be absolutely right. You're
absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
The vo
Host
Colin Cowherd
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