May 27, 2026 • 50 mins
Coming off Danielle’s recent stint as host of the American Idol Official Podcast, it’s time she gets a little deeper with one of the show’s all-time most beloved contestants. Let’s dim the lights and catch up with Season 7 superstar, David Archuleta.
David takes us back to the days before Paula, Simon and Randy, to share his memories of growing up, conflicted in the Mormon church. Plus, he details a complicated relationship with his father and the struggles that come with accepting one’s true identity.
With a vulnerable new book now on shelves, it’s time to hear from the real David Archuleta, on all-new episode of Teen Beat!
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
That's all. That's okay because no one here is.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello everyone, it's Daniel Fishel back with a brand new
episode of teen Beat, your weekly reminder that my teenage years,
every single one of them, were played out on a
television screen with six to eight million people watching per week,
catching every pimple, every awkward pubescentt development, and even my
first kiss. But now this podcast, well it's my opportunity
(00:51):
to turn the tables. I now get to sit with
interesting people who've done interesting things and find out what
they were like as kids, how their own moments of
childhood cringe helped shape who they are today.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I see it like this, I gave you my childhood.
It's time we hear yours.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And this week I am so excited to welcome a
guest whose vulnerability is already on full display thanks to
a brand new glorious memoir that I absolutely loved, But
more on that later. Before he put pen to paper
at just six years old, thanks to a quick glimpse
of La Miz, he knew he wanted to entertain, and,
(01:32):
like everyone who's famous in twenty twenty six. He was
raised in Utah amongst the Church of Latter Day Saints,
creating both a little performer and a confused kid trying
to understand his surroundings. An early stop on Star Search
may have triggered the lift off, but it was his
trip to Hollywood and American Idol in two thousand and
seven at just sixteen years old that sent him into orbit.
(01:56):
He finished in second place, yet three songs he performed
on the show's finale debuted on the Billboard Hot one
hundred the next day, giving a new definition to the
word runner up. He'd quickly sign a record deal and
release his self titled debut album that would go on
to sell nearly two million copies eight studio albums. Later,
(02:16):
approaching twenty years since his breakout on one of the
most watched reality competition seasons of all time, it feels
like we're only now getting to know the real David Archiletta.
His new memoir Devout Losing My Faith to Find Myself
is a raw and emotional retelling of his journey through
religious deconstruction, complicated family issues and abuse, and his eventual
(02:41):
acceptance of who he really is and that person deserves
to be heard.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It is an incredible read.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So today I'm more excited to Welcome to teen Beat.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
My guest David Archiletta.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Hello, can I pay you for that? Buyo O. I'm like,
oh my goodness, wow, that's just that was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Before we jump into all things your memoir, all things
your history, your story, I first want to ask you
what is going on in Utah. It's like, right now
feels like when twenty boy bands all came out of
Orlando at the same time and we'ren TRL at the
same time. Did you ever think Utah would become such
(03:26):
the talk of pop culture.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I had no idea. No, And I feel like for
some reason, Utah is really good at the like social media, influencer,
aesthetic and engagement because I feel like it started with YouTube.
There were a lot of YouTube content creators who are
either from Utah or Mormon. Yeah, and so it's just
kind of wild that because like they had Lindsay Sterling,
(03:50):
they had the Shay Carl and the Shay Tarts they
had It's just so many people doing this like new thing,
and people liked to feel like they were a part
of it. Yeah, and now we have mom Talk, Yes,
Secret Lives and Mormon. Why is two of your.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes Dancing with the Stars co dancers.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, co stars era like, but the world.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Seems currently to be a little obsessed with the complicated
and let's not ignore messy and repressed. We can call
it repressy culture in Utah. How do you how do
you explain Mormon Utah culture to people? If you had to?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Ooh, that's an interesting Oh these are interesting questions to
think about. Yeah, because I guess people weren't really they
didn't really know much about it before, so they weren't
really interested in it the way that they are now.
And having that's like pretty much all I know, so
I kind of have to like reflect. I'm like, okay,
look in like what there's something about it that I
(04:54):
think people find very endearing. Yeah, because there's a bit
of an innocence to it. But I mean and also
not like you watch like sucre Lives and Mormon Wives,
But I feel like that's a very extreme example, right,
because you look at other a lot of the general
population of moms and women in Utah, and it's so
(05:17):
much more innocent, so much more like protected. I think
those women are just a lot more exposed to and
not afraid to venture, you know what, I think? Jen
Affleck in the first season was a really great example
of how a lot of them behaved and their mentality
and their disposition the relationship and dynamic with their husbands.
(05:40):
And I think the audience watching and kind of like
their curiosity and confusion and calling things out and vocalizing
their opinions really transformed Jen's perspective because it made her
real be like, oh, it's not like this for everybody,
and it made her and her husband have to reflect
(06:01):
on what the dynamic between a husband and a wife
could look like. It's not just one way. And also
the fact that she gained so much support and love
and influence and it gave her a lot more power
in the marriage dynamic. So I think he had to
he had to change his role. Is very interesting to
(06:23):
watch on TV because most women in Utah don't get
that opportunity. They don't get to have audience kind of
chiming in and giving their opinion and saying, hey, like,
that's actually not the best dynamic to have in a marriage,
like having a man be that authoritative, which in Utah's
(06:44):
it's normal, it's expected. So I think to have an
outside audience, not in Utah culture, not in Mormon bubble
being able to publicize their opinions and comment during like
it it's I think it's made a lot of people
(07:05):
very like it's very because it's normally a very secluded,
exclusive culture and community. Like we're very much you know,
we're at people's schools, we're at people's work, and we
kind of like take pride in or like when I
was a part of it too, like we would take
(07:25):
pride in being a little different, and they would say,
we are peculiar people, and we kind of have like
this like TV type of personality like from the fifties sixties,
like leave it to be for like yeah, just like
kind of go lucky and stay optimistic and look on
the bright side. But a lot of that comes from
being in denial of some of the more serious issues
(07:48):
at hand, right, And so I think it was like
you're kind of in like this fantasy world because you
believe this lore that in the eighteen hundreds, this guy
Joseph Smith, who in Mormons Latter day Saints consider the
prophet of the Restoration. They believe that Joseph Smith saw
(08:12):
God the Father and Jesus Christ like as two separate beings.
Like oh, so that was like a I think that's
different from some other Christian faith where I believe that
it's just one or it's like the Trinity and Catholicism.
Like for them, it's like this is where we were
(08:33):
revealed that there are two separate beings. That God is
a father and Jesus is his son, which means that
we're his brother because we're also children of God. But
they so it's like a lot of this lore. It
kind of feels like you're stepping into like Lord of
the Rings or Star Wars is how I described it
(08:55):
in my book. But there's a lot of that kind
of whimsical imagination. And so you kind of like like
as Mormons, they believe like we are here, they learned
to be long suffering. They believe in sacrifice, they believe
in discipline. I think those are really good traits, yes,
and good qualities that people admire and respect.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yes, And very family oriented, very.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Family oriented, yeah, And so they believe that sacrifice. You
can find joy in the journey. You can find joy
in the sacrifice, and sacrifice brings God's blessings. So you
kind of learn how to have a smile through your hardships.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And repress maybe a lot of you.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Know, yeah, because you're not allowed. We were taught that
anger was bad and yeah, like you so you kind
of you learn to suppress a lot of emotions anger,
but then it would come out in other ways and
behind closed doors. So if like there was a neglectful marriage,
like where the husband or the wife were being abusive
(09:57):
or something, you don't talk about it because we're not
supposed to talk about the negative things. We're supposed to
focus on the good things.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Right, and this is my hardship that I'm supposed to
find the joy in instead of maybe having boundaries for
yourself where you go, No, no one should accept this,
like you think, well, this is just my plight that
maybe I'm supposed to accept.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, but you know what I was going to say.
I think where Catholicism is very is similar to like
with like Latter day Saints is the fact that shame
is such a big part of the culture. And so
I think that's what's really interesting also about like perco
lives and Mormon wives is you see how shame and
(10:41):
confession is such a part of the culture, which I
think is really sweet. It's beautiful because I think it's
something that a lot of other people and don't feel like, oh,
that's not really a part of their lives and their
mentality and their culture and community where you feel a need.
I feel like Mormons do a lot times overshare, yeah,
(11:01):
and I think you see that with the mom talk,
like they're sharing way more than they probably should be.
But and like in a way that it's like I
realize what I'm doing is wrong, yeah, and I messed
up and stuff, but it's like really beautiful to honesty
behind that.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So I think, you know, I think people always appreciated
that about me too, and I just like they're like, wow,
you're so honest and like so vulnerable. I'm like, but
I was like, well, the culture I come from, Like
that's where, that's how we are. And it's what's interesting, though,
is the more power and influence you have, the less
I feel like, the less transparency there is. So it's
like the followers, a lot of them are expected to
(11:38):
be transparent and honest, but there are people who know
how to play the system and cheat it. And they're like,
wait a second, if I lie, I can manipulate other people,
I can gaslight and I can get away with a
lot of crazy shit here, yeah and so, and they
do right and so. But a lot of the members
themselves are very earnest, very sincere. They want to do
(12:02):
the right thing. Yeah, they don't want to be bad,
and the shame that's instilled in them makes them so
afraid of being bad. But it also can be a
double edged sword because while there's transparency in a lot
of waste, there's suppression and repress feelings and denial. Like
you kind of gaslight yourself, so you're not aware of
reality of a lot of situations where like, for example,
(12:23):
like Jen maybe with like the dynamic with her husband
or me with my sexuality, Like there's a lot of
like I'm very honest, but I'm I'm like so oblivious
to this situation that's going on like right in front
of me and right I'm surrounded by.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Shame is also a really great way to control people.
If you can make them feel ashamed and feel like, well,
I know this awful thing about you.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It really can make.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
People feel like I need you, which is actually something
you kind of talk.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
About with your dad with some.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Of the decisions that your you know, your dad wanted
to make every decision about your song choices, about the arrangement,
about the way you sang them, and then when you
would occasionally get the gall to say I'm going to
do something different, maybe self fulfilling prophecy, and you faltered
a little bit in it. You did have that feeling
of like, see, you're right, I do need to listen
(13:22):
to you. And he would remind he would show you that,
see what happens when you.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Don't listen to me.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Can we talk a little bit about that when it
comes to your dad, and like some of the decisions
that your dad would make for your career and for
your life, and how hard it was for you to
ever speak up and maybe even to know what it
was you wanted for yourself because you had just been
told what you wanted for yourself your whole life.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, it was kind of like I had.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
It was like a not a kink, but like I.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Want to say, a shame kink, but like it's like
addicted to that. I was addicted to the feeling of
it was like I need, I need to feel more
of that, like shame. It was like a form of
a high in a way because it was an intense
feeling and intensity, like I gravitated towards intense feelings, and
(14:13):
my dad is an intense person, so I was around
him all the time. So I think I got used
to feeling this hit of intensity in one form or another,
and so feeling shame not good enough, like wallowing in
how how incapable of a person I was, and how
(14:35):
I didn't know and how lost I was without having
someone to guide me. It was. It kind of was
like a kink, like not in a sexual way, but
like I need more of this feeling or else I'm
not alive. I'm not. I don't know how else to recognize,
Like it was such a familiar feeling that I wanted
to keep feeling it. But I also realized as I
(14:57):
wrote it, like a lot of other performers and entertain
some of my friends, even songwriters and things, but have
they would say I related most to the dynamic between
you and your dad and the book. So I don't know,
if you know, like people like who've I mean, I
didn't even know it until they brought it up after
(15:17):
reading the book where they're like, they're like, I'm in
this business and we all had it in common that
we had a parent, like at least with my friends.
We had just this last week in Nashville's with some
of my friends, and they also had dads who were
just like like a stage dad and controlling in a bit,
(15:38):
And I was like, Oh, this is I didn't realize
how common this was because my friend who encouraged me
to write my book was Jeanette McCurdy, who she talked
all about it in.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Her book, was also one of my favorites.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Yeah, so it's I was like, Wow, this happens a lot.
Like where we a lot of us who are doing
what we're doing, there's also like a bit of resentment
in what we're doing because it's almost like we lost
a parent in the process of getting here, because we
had a parent who helped us get here, but in return,
(16:13):
they're not really like our parent anymore, and I think
you kind of mourn that. So it's like would I
rather have? It was like, would I rather become famous
and a star and have this attention and potential to
live comfortably with money and income and be praised for
my work I'm doing in craft? Are Would I rather
have my dad and just have him as a dad supportive?
(16:38):
And there was a lot of times where it was
like to me, it was like, I would rather not
have any of this. I would rather not have the attention.
I'd rather have a job where I'm struggling more if
it meant that I could just have a dad like
normal and who looked out for me and was proud
of me. And I didn't feel like like my love,
(17:02):
the love I got from him was conditional based on
how well I was doing right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
It wasn't tied to performance and yeah yeah we uh
so writer or Strong who was on Boy Meets World
with me, who played Sewn and is my co host
on Podmets World. His son has recently started getting into
voice acting. And one of the things I think is
so smart about what he's doing is he, of course
(17:27):
writers been acting since he was, you know, ten years old.
He knows everything there is to know about the industry,
and yet he refuses to be his son's coach. He said,
I will hire someone to play to do that role
for you. I'm just going to be your dad, going
to be your dad. I'm going to support you. I'm
going to drive you to the auditions. I'm going to
(17:48):
be there for you if you want to talk about anything,
if you want to prep if you want to whatever,
I'm there, but I'm not going to be the person responsible,
like the agent, the manager, the acting coach, because it
does get so muddy, the waters get muddied, and like,
thankfully in my situation, neither of my parents.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Had any clue what they knew.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Nothing about the entertainment industry. So they were also both like,
we couldn't help.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
You if we wanted to.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So it's it's interesting to hear you say that, because
you're right when you have when the roles get blurry,
you lose a parent to the job, and that is sad.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Yeah. One of my friends like didn't talk hasn't really
talked to their dad for a decade. Another one is
like complicated and like I didn't talk to my dad
for like seven years. Yeah, and because you kind of
have to like teach them to I don't know, I
don't know why that's such a common thing for a
lot of kids who started in the entertainment industry young.
(18:50):
I'm so glad that you didn't have to, you know that. Yeah,
same dynamic. But I feel like a lot like at
least you know me and Jeannette, I know, I feel
like the are some the examples off the top of
my head. Just it was so intense, and my parents
wanted to live vicariously through us, but they didn't want
(19:11):
us to grow up out of their grasp. And you
know Jeanette, Jeanette's mom wouldn't let her bathe on her
own until she was eighteen. And there are a lot
of things where it's like, I felt like my dad
wanted me to be a little kid, even up until
my twenties. Like I had the mentality in a lot
(19:31):
of ways of a kid, because my dad didn't want
me to grow up and think for myself because it
would mean that I would not need him anymore. And
so I think we come from parents who had abandonment issues,
they had trauma themselves, and so was it was just
very interesting. But you know, I would try to let
(19:53):
my dad if we fought and stuff, I'd try to
let him know. I'm like, hey, Dad, you know, I
sorry this happened, and I just wanted to let you
and I love you. And my dad would say, well,
if you really loved me, then you would let me.
Basically be like you would let me be in charge
of your career, but you don't, which means you don't
love me, and what kind of son would treat their
(20:13):
dad like that, and like that kind of talk it would.
I think it just made me be like, I'm supposed
to love this man, but I also feel like I
need to protect myself from him because I don't This
doesn't make sense. It's very confusing. And the talks that
led to me writing my book devout with Jeanette, Like
(20:35):
we would meet together and talk about and it would
just feel like this back and forth of feeling validated
and seeing us like, oh my gosh, you went through
that too, Oh my gosh, I went through that too.
Oh my gosh, this is what that happened with you
and your mom, like that happened with me and my dad.
And it was just kind of and our parents knew
each other, so like my dad was friends with her mom,
and Jeanette and her mom would come to like some
(20:56):
of my shows and my music video shoots, and I
would like go over there and like visit her mom
because her mom was in the middle of fighting her
her cancer and and there's this kind of wild like
and we also had like the Mormon dynamic as well.
(21:17):
So we both grew up LDS, so we felt this
like kindred, like like this like this bond in those.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Tisand yeah, that you were, you know, somebody who doesn't
know anything about LDS or the entertainment industry or that
parent dynamic. There's so much stuff you get to skip
of being like, of course you know what that's like.
So even just saying like, so we were at church,
she knows exactly what that means to be at church
and what the church days are like and all that dynamic. Yeah,
(21:50):
to feel so seen by someone and to have so
much in common and then to have actually been in
the same circle.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
And I feel like when we would talk a lot
to we would hide behind our parent because we didn't
really have an identity without them. So she would be like, yeah,
my mom, as long as my mom's okay, Like she
wasn't doing anything for herself. And I feel like that's
made it acting a very complicated thing for her because
she was like, I'm doing this for my mom, and
she felt like she was doing it to keep her
(22:19):
mom alive. And so for me, I think the same thing,
and like, well, I'm singing, and the better I sing,
the more my dad will be happy and okay and
feel fulfilled. And so it makes you really gain this
complicated relationship with your art and crowd because it's like, yeah,
I love doing it and get I get acknowledged and
praised for what I'm doing, but it's so attached to
(22:42):
my parent that I really don't want to be associated
with this. It's like a bittersweet thing because like you're
praising me so much, but I don't know how to
see myself in this because my dad's so involved in this,
and I have to do it exactly the way he
wants or else I am gonna get reprimanded for hours.
(23:03):
Like he wasn't like shouting in my face or anything,
but it was like this literally would spend hours. It's
like you need to improve it, you need to correct
what you did wrong.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I know your youth was very heavily connected to the church.
What did you do for fun? Did you?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm sure there were fun moments. What did you guys
do for fun? You and your siblings?
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Yeah, so Florida. No, When I lived in Florida for
a little bit with my older sister, we'd love to
go out and like play with their like ducks, just
like hanging out in our back yard area and like
there's like a pond behind the fence of our the
town homes that we lived in, and we'd always like
we would like find a way to like break the
(23:57):
fence open and escape out so that we could go
catch tadpoles. And we'd always get in trouble for it.
But we would go and we'd like steal some of
the duck eggs, and like, I don't know what we
would do with them.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I was thinking feed the ducks, but then you were
like stealing the duck eggs.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
We would feed the ducks too, Okay, but yeah, I
think we just try to catch them and like them
be our pet, and we I think we used to
get like the duck eggs and like get our dad's
church socks and like swing the eggs around. We weren't
trying to break them.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
We just socks are there specific church.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Sucks, just like like black hot church socks. Okay, But
like I was like four years old and she was five,
so it's not I don't think we knew any better.
We didn't think we were going to hurt the duck. Maybe,
I'm like, I don't know if we were killing the
baby chicks in the side. The eggs but and then
like when we moved to Utah, we just love to
go outside and play in the snow and roller blade.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
We were really into roller blading was great. Yeah, I
loved ll oh. Yes, I did my very first headshot.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's called a compos where you have like all the
different photos like here's me looking studious in front of
some books, and here's me doing One of them was
wearing roller blades jumping in the air and oh my god,
I was able to jump, touch my roller blades to
my bottom and then land on my roller blades.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Very talented.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Very Is it weird to have so much, like you know,
is it weird for you that like so much of
like your life day to day, Like you've lived so
much life and like, you know, that was when you
were a kid and you're an adult now. Is it
weird that so much of your life and like the
topics that people ask you about are from your childhood?
(25:39):
Like is that? Where is it?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Like? I mean, it's so normal now, but is it
kind of weird sometimes to think like, oh, like you know,
compared to like what other people talk about, We're not
usually talking about their child their childhood but everyone wants,
Like so much of your childhood was public and publicize
and there for everyone to see, like like to say, yeah,
my headshots and like when I was rollerblading as a kid,
(26:02):
like and it's like and every and people saw that,
and so like people still come to you and ask
and talk to you about your childhood and your child self.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think I was aware while it was happening that
I was peaking, So it's not yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Was like this, this is gonna.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Be peing, like you know, like I have.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
A feeling it's gonna be all downhill for You're so
self aware, You're such a self waged kid, Like that's
so interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, I think I was aware, like, yeah, this is
what else is there from you know?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Like I do.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I do also know similarly to the way you talked
about with your dad, feeling like you were singing to
bring him joy. And now it's given you an opportunity
to re establish or figure out, what is my real
feeling on my career and what do I want?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
What are my goals, what are my thoughts.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
It's freaky. It's freaky because I'm like, I'm not used
to thinking for myself, and you feel so like I'm
going to fail, right, because that's what I was always told,
Like if I do, if I think for myself, I
am going to ruin my life. So it's you have
to like unprogram that and be like, okay, how do
I feel? What makes what makes me happy? And it's
and you feel selfish to even ask that. It's like
(27:19):
I'm not supposed to ask myself what makes me happy?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
How dare I who? This isn't about me, This life
is not about.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Me, And that comes from my dad and church, like
the Mormon way of living. Like that's why I like
for for Latter day Saints, and I think a lot
of religions, like being gay is so selfish. How could
you live your life for you like you can't create?
I mean, well, now they do have ways, like you
know Lance, you're friends with Lance too, with Michael, my
(27:46):
long term boyfriend. Oh my gosh, so you know, yeah,
you know that experience too, so because I like I
talked about my ex fiancees and my my book.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
I had three of them, but I know I at
the time, but my heart broke for all three of
them and also for you in every situation because having.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Now experienced that from on.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Basically, it feels like both sides because with Lance him
being able to explain to me so intimately the same
things you so vulnerably explained in your book about the
thoughts that go through your head, the mental gymnastics you
have to do in order to try to convince yourself that, yeah,
I'm going to be able to live an entire life
(28:34):
telling myself that I'm just battling, struggling same sex attraction.
And it is hard that you do love these people.
You did love the women you were engaged too. It
was just a passionless type of love that is not
a long term family dynamic that you want to that
(28:54):
you that you can or should even be expected to maintain.
So hearing you you talk about it so beautifully and
your fiances were all so accepting of hearing you talk
about that you were battling same sex attraction.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
They were like okay, and.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Then very understanding when you eventually came out. Do you
have conversation? Do you talk to any of them now?
Have you spoken to them?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I talked to two of them. One of them I
haven't spoken to since it ended. Okay, it was really traumatic.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, I'm sure it was grateful for her.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
She had a lot of other things happen as well,
Like she like she was from Mexico, and the week
that I ended things with her, she was going to
see some of her friends and her friend got like
she was like, yeah, I'm going to go see my friend,
and her friend I mean got abducted.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah, And so that happening in the same week that
things ended was very traumatic for her, and so I
think just it was too much for her. So I
felt so bad, and so I mean I didn't I
had no idea none. How could you have any idea
that that's going to happen. But yeah, so it was
just it was kind of weird because like before, like
(30:17):
she was telling me how she was looking forward to
seeing her friends, and then and then we had that
call and we ended things, and then right, you know,
just days before she was supposed to spend time with
her friend, that happened. And so it I just haven't
talked her, but you know, my sister showed me like
a post that she did where she was she was
(30:38):
still very Mormon, and she made a post saying I'm
very grateful. It was Thanksgiving and a lot of Mormons
love to say what they're thankful for, and she said,
I want to. I'm so thankful for for my gay
friends and for gay people. And she was saying listening
to all the things why her gay friends specifically were
such a light and blessing in her life, and that
(30:59):
for me was very healing to hear about. And I
just respected her so much because I felt like a
failure to her and I felt like, how could a
girl forgive you for ruining her future? Is how I
was feeling. And to see that, you know, Okay, maybe
it wasn't that if she never spoke to me again,
(31:20):
it wasn't because I was gay or queer. It was because,
you know, it was just messy. I had my trauma
and it was definitely coming through in the relationship that
we had, and I hadn't figured myself out yet. So
just to see that she was always supportive and stood
(31:41):
up for people, like she's posting, like in front of
all of her other Mormon friends on Thanksgiving like I'm
thankful for gay people. I think this is amazing. Before
it was really cool to do. Yeah, it's becoming like
more accepting as time goes on, like year by year,
which I'm so happy to see. Yes, but like I was, yeah,
(32:01):
so yeah, even though I haven't spoken to her, it
was cool to see her say that.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
So, I want to talk to you a little bit
about your experience at American Idol. I want to talk
about your first experience with the show where you end
up at a life taping and then at an after
party you sing for Paula Abdul Well, you kind of
sing for everybody, and Paula comes walking up to you
and was very supportive. And she's still somebody that is
(32:37):
in your life. She wrote the forward to your Very Sweet.
She's so sweet that feeling of being your dad kind
of pushed you forced you into singing publicly.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Did that happen often? And is does it?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Was it as uncomfortable as it feels for me just
hearing about Yeah, it makes.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
You uncontable because sometimes I feel like I'm just an
ungrateful son. I didn't appreciate it my dad. I'm I
wouldn't be doing what I'm doing without my dad. But
that's also what makes you so like in limbo about
everything that's going on. It's like, I owe my dad
to this, but I still and yeah, I resent a
lot of our dynamic because you know, it's like, I'm
(33:20):
grateful that you were the you helped me get here,
but I also just wish sometimes I could have my
dad that I like, I would love to just be
able to trust him and not have him like critiquing
everything I do and putting me down and if he
sees something he doesn't like about my life and making
it condition all that's like, if you don't let me
(33:41):
come back in your life, then I'm going to keep
I'm not going to look at the positive things or doing.
But we've grown out of that luckily, Like we've gotten
to a good place. And it came with boundaries, which
he was pissed off about, but you know, learned to
respect over the years. It took years and I was like,
this is never going to happen. I'll probably never talk
(34:01):
to my dad again, but we've come to a good place.
I mean, he's it's kind of gotten sticky since I
was like, Dad, I'm going to release a book and
I'm going to talk about all this all this stuff
that we went through, which he wasn't happy about. But
I think he's also just he's a strong guy and
he respects it. And I was like, Dad, I talk
about abuse. That's what my experience with what it was.
(34:22):
And he's he doesn't agree with it, but I'm like,
you know what, that's okay. You don't have to agree.
But I'm like, you know you, if you you were
the one who wanted me to get to this place
in the first place, this wouldn't have happened if the
dynamic between you and me didn't exist. And I have
there's that it's not my it's not a true story
(34:42):
if I don't talk about our dynamic. So but anyway,
we'd be in a grocery store, like and like the
cash the person checking us out, you'd just say, you
see that kid over there, that's my son, my son.
He's the greatest singer on earth. And I'm like oh
(35:05):
and she and I remember, she's like oh really okay,
and then he's like you don't believe me. Oh, But
I was just like I was singing on demand like that,
and he's like, okay, David sing for her. And I
was like, what's the point of this, what's the point
of this? And I think because it wasn't building my ego,
(35:27):
it wasn't making me feel more confident. It was just
very embarrassing for me, and I felt like I was
a puppet, Like I felt like I was my dad's
toy to show off, and he was a proud dad.
He was a proud dad. So it's like I think
he he just got a kick out of it. He
didn't think of it as like I'm using my son.
(35:48):
I think he just was excited to see people's reaction,
because they did always react. She was like, okay, She's like,
yeah he can he can really sing. Yeah, so and
that that's what he did. You know. The reason I
was singing to Paula Abdul and the book was because
same thing he was like sing for them. And I
was like I don't want to. I like really didn't
(36:10):
want to. I didn't like to be put on the spot.
I didn't like the attention. Yeah, so I think it
was hard. I had to I've had to learn how
to like attention, but I didn't. I didn't like it
to begind. I was like, I would have been fine.
I used to say, like I would write in my
journal sometimes as a teenager, like a young teenager before
American idol and things, and I was like, I'm like,
(36:30):
why am I even a human? I'm like, I would
have been completely content if God just created me as
a rock and made me a rock in the middle
of the desert where I can just be by myself,
bask in the sun and just fulfill my my creator,
like my existence. Then that way, I'm.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Like, why don't I have to get get married?
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Or I'm like why am I here? I'm like, I
guess I have to appreciate being a human and whatever
comes at that. But I was like, I just would
have loved to have just been to myself and kept
to myself. I loved roller just by myself alone in
the neighborhood, Satan. Hi to all the widows and retired people.
Because I was homeschooled, so a lot of talk.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
The only friends your agent during the day, they're all
at school.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
They're all at school. So I'd just be like, hi,
missus Gillespie, how are you? Oh gosh, did you have
a missus? Okay? I love that. I love that that name. No,
I would have like we would call I mean, most
of my neighbors were yeah you know, yes, so all
the widows, like most of everyone in my neighborhood was Mormon,
(37:31):
so I'd be like, Hi, sister Higbee, Hi sister Stephenson.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
So it's And what I loved about them is that
they didn't care. I mean, you know, because I was
I was feminine, and I guess the way I talked
like people would say, okay, like he's a oh you're
you're you're gay or you're you sound like a girl.
But the older, the old ladies didn't care. So I
(37:56):
love to be with them because they didn't judge me,
they didn't make fun of me, and they just let
me keep them company. I loved that. I loved not
being the center of attention. They would tell me their stories.
They'd be like, yeah, when I tell that in like
when I got I don't know, so like my I
had four kids and then my husband left me and
I had to raise my four kids on my own,
and then I got I found so hard. I found
(38:18):
my husband and he was amazing. And I just loved
to just be there and I'm like, do you need
hop like washing your dishes or some of them would
let me come in with my rollerblades and I was
like no, I'm They're like, oh, just keep them on,
and they just rollerblading around the house. Yeah, I would
just like walk and like try not to like stay
in their floors or whatever. But I just loved it,
like I loved existing without being the one in the spotlight?
(38:42):
Were you frustrating me?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Jealous of all those children who had no natural god
given talent? So what it would be like to just
be like one of you?
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I did, because I was like, what is it like
to just like play and like run around and play
and not feel like you're being because I always I
felt like I was always being watched, even though I wasn't,
but the dynamic had with my dad made me feel
like I was always being watched, And so I always
(39:12):
second guest what I said, how I moved, and I
try to just really blend in the background and be
quiet because I'm like, if I say something, it might
be wrong. If I do something, it might be wrong.
And so I would see kids and they didn't even
think twice about what they did, what they said, and
they got hurt, they got it, and I really, you know,
(39:34):
it wasn't until you say it now, I'm like, yeah,
I was a very cautious person, and like if some
of the times, like the other church, kids would invite
me over to watch a movie or for a sleepover stuff.
I would always stand in the back, which is creepy.
I was like, I'm such a creeper. And they'd be like,
come sit with us, come sit and like watch and
(39:55):
I was like, no, I'm okay. I was so afraid
of being seen. Yeah, And I think it also how
to do with the fact that I felt like I
was hiding something big, which I didn't know what it was,
but it was my sexuality. And I'm like, if I
come and be in your presence, you're gonna notice me. Yeah,
And I'm so afraid of that. So but they would
still invite me, and I'm like, they're such sweet neighborhood right,
other just.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Kids trying and include you, even though you were like,
I will watch you and pretend I'm participating.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Really, I'm on the outskirts. So when you then are.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
On American Idol and you mentioned like whether it was
in the neighborhood or I imagine there was talk about
whether or not you were gay in the public while
you were on the show.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
My dad would tell me all the time, it is
like speculating about whether you're a gay or not. I'm like, okay,
thanks for letting me know.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I can't even imagine how that would feel to have
other people speculating about something you have not even fully
wrapped your mind around at all, and to just have
other people talking about it so openly. So what was
that feeling like for you? Was that terrifying to feel
like other people were seeing you?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Yeah? That was part of why I was so terrified
of staying on American Idol, right because I'm like, so
many people are talking about me in a way I
don't want to be talked about. I'm like, I just
want to sing and then disappear, but I have to still,
like have people talk about me wonder what I'm like.
And I was so uncomfortable with it. That's why I
hated being on the show. And so when people would
(41:25):
be like, oh, you must be having the time of
your life and cloud and I'm like, I've me I
don't want to run. I'm like I literally there were
times where I would be in the classroom because you know,
as of course, I still have to do school time
even do though you're doing so much other stuff. And
I would be in the classroom doing my school work
and I'd be like, I could just run away right now,
(41:48):
I could just escape. I could run and hide and
know and I would know where I was. I can
leave my phone right here. Oh, they couldn't find me,
and I don't have to do this shit anymore. So
I was like, but then I was like the dutiful
Mormon in me was like, no, so many people relying
on me, and I'm like, God put me here for
a reason. I'm supposed to be an example for him.
Like I think a lot of Mormons think that way.
(42:09):
I'm sure, like, yeah, I feel like sometimes when I
watch Whitney, I'm like, I wonder if that's how she's
It's like, I'm here because I'm supposed to be an
example for everyone else, and I think it's like that
the performer Mormon, And like, I see, so I've mentioned
this another time on an but I was like, sometimes
I watch Whitney and I relate so much to it
(42:29):
that I cringe, Like you should be like that, yeah,
where it's like you you know, it's not even like
a lot of Mormons could do relate it, but like
the Mormon performer, it's like this other thing because you
feel like you have to be on and and as
a theater performer you already turn on, but as a
(42:50):
Mormon performer, you turn on in a different way because
it's like, I'm a representation of God and I have
the Gospel in my life and and you're kind of condition.
So it's like two yeah ways of being on collide together.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
But oh God, anyway.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Your whole family has left the church now, right, Yeah,
what is your relationship like with your family now?
Speaker 4 (43:25):
It's it's like complicated and beautiful and wonderful. You know.
I didn't really get to fully relate to my dad
until I left, right because when I came out, my
dad was fully supportive of me, which I wasn't expecting.
I thought he was going to criticize me or have
something to say because he always did in the past.
(43:47):
So I hadn't really been talking to him. And I
was like, you know, I should reach out to my
dad because it's like, I'm sure he's hearing about it.
And so I was like Dad, and he's like that,
He's like, some, I'm so happy for you, I'm so
proud of you. And I wasn't. I was like, wow,
we've really grown because he's not criticizing me, or saying
you could have done it this, or you should have
done this, or how could you?
Speaker 2 (44:08):
It was feels like that's maybe the only response you
wouldn't have prepped yourself for. Yeah, You're like, okay, I'm
gonna call him. Here are all the different things he's
going to say. He's going to have a complaint about
how I did it, what I said when I did
it something, And you're not thinking what am I going
to say when he says I'm so proud of you son?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
That what was your response when he said that?
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Yeah, because every phone call that I would have before
would always end up.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
In a fight, right and yeah, and yeah, Like.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
I'm just like he's not stopping, so I'm just going
to hang up.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
And then.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
So it was weird. It like was like twenty thirty minutes.
It's like this is so short. And he was talking
about how he went to a gay club like a
gay bar one time out of curiosity to see because
someone invited him to go and he's like, sure, I'll
go see and and just it was like, you know,
he grew up more Manti, so you know when people
were saying that I was getting he was like it
(45:03):
was like a part of him, like the Mormon dad,
and because he was still a Mormon at the time,
felt like he needed to protect me from gay men
because you know, they're always painted in a very bad light.
I guess the sexual beings that just were perverts and
what he didn't know what they're gonna do to me,
And so I was like, oh, I don't want to.
But now I'm realizing, like it's like I don't know.
(45:24):
And I think it's so interesting that it's like, not
the openly gay men that you have to worry about,
it's the closeted ones that you have to worry about
because they're dealing with suppressed feelings and suppressed feelings and
being in denial about is this not never good? It
always comes out in a very messy way, which I
think is why you see a lot of closeted conservative
and like religious leaders. Yeah, who who take out their
(45:49):
suppressed feelings on vulnerable people. Yeah, or even so it's anyway,
it's and.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Also have the mindset that maybe the the reason I'm
having these feel is because I'm not Godly enough or
I'm not close I'm not close enough to God. And
the next thing, you know, you're a part of the
of the church, because you feel like maybe that will
fix me.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Maybe the closer I can get, the better off I
will be.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Yeah, and even become obsessed with it. Like I learned
in therapy that I had like a form of OCD
with religion, and it was coming from a like a
religious therapist. She was helping me recognize that this scrupulosity
is what it's called religious OCD. And I've I learned
(46:36):
later on that it's very common for queer people in
religion to become scrupulous because they it's yeah, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Well does your dad look back on American Idol fondly?
Have you asked him ever, Like.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I don't know. Yeah, I imagine he does, because he
was very involved in it, and I feel like he
felt like anything he touched was great and perfect, and
it was almost like he's like if I wasn't there,
it would have been a disaster, and that's how he
treats everything. So sometimes I think, No, I think that's
(47:14):
why I blocked a lot of what happened, because I
had to go back and watch the American Ale episodes.
Because my book publishers are like, we want you to.
We really want you to talk about this. We want
to give you your advance and stuff. And so I
was like, okay, what happened then? And I so, and
I'd written another memoir before when I was a teenager.
(47:37):
But my dad would constantly say, if I weren't there,
it would have been a mess. My dad's are you
saying anything I did myself would have been And he
basically I don't think he realized that's what he was saying,
but that is what he was saying. And He's like,
it would have been a disaster if I weren't there.
I'm like, Dad, do you know how many managers I
tried to meet with? And you ruined the relationship? Like
(47:58):
I couldn't continue in my career because he would call
me and say who are you meeting with? And da da.
He would call me like seven, eight, nine times in
a row and leave me all these messages because he
was so like, I have to know what you're doing.
You're going to ruin your career, You're going to ruin
your life if you don't let me know what's going on.
(48:20):
And I would like pick up because I'm like, well
he's my dad. After and He's like, let me talk
to them. I have your best interests. All of these
other people are out to get you. This entertainment industry
is horrible. It's a mess. Everyone's backstabbing. And I was like, oh,
I guess there's a little bit of that going on you,
so maybe I should. He's like, I'm your dad. Though
no one will have your best interests at heart the
(48:42):
way your dad does. He's like, on top of that,
I have divine inspiration as your dad, given from God
to be a steward over you, to receive revelation on
your behalf. So I can the spirit will help me
discern whether these men or these managers you're meeting with
are the right one for you. And then I like
(49:04):
met with some I talked to a couple of those
managers I met with like years later, and they'd be like, yeah,
like you're you're dad. Because he would say, no, they weren't.
They're not the right one for you.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I could tell their intentions are bad.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
And a lot of them would say like afterwards, like, yeah,
your dad made a condition that he had to be
co manager if we worked with you, and so if
they didn't say yes and didn't agree that my stage
dad wouldn't. Yeah, you know, I think it was kind
of weird for them to hear, like be having a
separate conversation with that I wasn't involved in, and I
(49:37):
would funnel all of them like I can't work with
you until you talk to my dad. And I was
nineteen years old, nineteen twenty years old, and nope, I
can't function without my dad. So ooh, it was interesting, guys.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
David stuck around for a bonus episode where we get
more into his incredible journey and we hear from one
of you, a listener with their own childhood horror story
that drops Friday on the dedicated teen Beat podcast feed.
Just go wherever you listen to podcasts and search for
teen Beat and subscribe. That way you never miss another episode.
And please pick up David Archiletta's new book, Devout, Losing
(50:15):
My Faith to find Myself, a truly remarkable memoir from
a truly remarkable individual. It's available everywhere, but maybe go
support your local bookseller.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
They could use the help.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Teen Beat is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by
Danielle Fischel. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman Executive
in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Subosch.
The theme song is by Mark Coppis Yes that Mark Coppus.
Follow us on Instagram at teen beat Pod.
That's all. That's okay because no one here is.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello everyone, it's Daniel Fishel back with a brand new
episode of teen Beat, your weekly reminder that my teenage years,
every single one of them, were played out on a
television screen with six to eight million people watching per week,
catching every pimple, every awkward pubescentt development, and even my
first kiss. But now this podcast, well it's my opportunity
(00:51):
to turn the tables. I now get to sit with
interesting people who've done interesting things and find out what
they were like as kids, how their own moments of
childhood cringe helped shape who they are today.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I see it like this, I gave you my childhood.
It's time we hear yours.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And this week I am so excited to welcome a
guest whose vulnerability is already on full display thanks to
a brand new glorious memoir that I absolutely loved, But
more on that later. Before he put pen to paper
at just six years old, thanks to a quick glimpse
of La Miz, he knew he wanted to entertain, and,
(01:32):
like everyone who's famous in twenty twenty six. He was
raised in Utah amongst the Church of Latter Day Saints,
creating both a little performer and a confused kid trying
to understand his surroundings. An early stop on Star Search
may have triggered the lift off, but it was his
trip to Hollywood and American Idol in two thousand and
seven at just sixteen years old that sent him into orbit.
(01:56):
He finished in second place, yet three songs he performed
on the show's finale debuted on the Billboard Hot one
hundred the next day, giving a new definition to the
word runner up. He'd quickly sign a record deal and
release his self titled debut album that would go on
to sell nearly two million copies eight studio albums. Later,
(02:16):
approaching twenty years since his breakout on one of the
most watched reality competition seasons of all time, it feels
like we're only now getting to know the real David Archiletta.
His new memoir Devout Losing My Faith to Find Myself
is a raw and emotional retelling of his journey through
religious deconstruction, complicated family issues and abuse, and his eventual
(02:41):
acceptance of who he really is and that person deserves
to be heard.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It is an incredible read.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So today I'm more excited to Welcome to teen Beat.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
My guest David Archiletta.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Hello, can I pay you for that? Buyo O. I'm like,
oh my goodness, wow, that's just that was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Before we jump into all things your memoir, all things
your history, your story, I first want to ask you
what is going on in Utah. It's like, right now
feels like when twenty boy bands all came out of
Orlando at the same time and we'ren TRL at the
same time. Did you ever think Utah would become such
(03:26):
the talk of pop culture.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I had no idea. No, And I feel like for
some reason, Utah is really good at the like social media, influencer,
aesthetic and engagement because I feel like it started with YouTube.
There were a lot of YouTube content creators who are
either from Utah or Mormon. Yeah, and so it's just
kind of wild that because like they had Lindsay Sterling,
(03:50):
they had the Shay Carl and the Shay Tarts they
had It's just so many people doing this like new thing,
and people liked to feel like they were a part
of it. Yeah, and now we have mom Talk, Yes,
Secret Lives and Mormon. Why is two of your.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes Dancing with the Stars co dancers.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, co stars era like, but the world.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Seems currently to be a little obsessed with the complicated
and let's not ignore messy and repressed. We can call
it repressy culture in Utah. How do you how do
you explain Mormon Utah culture to people? If you had to?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Ooh, that's an interesting Oh these are interesting questions to
think about. Yeah, because I guess people weren't really they
didn't really know much about it before, so they weren't
really interested in it the way that they are now.
And having that's like pretty much all I know, so
I kind of have to like reflect. I'm like, okay,
look in like what there's something about it that I
(04:54):
think people find very endearing. Yeah, because there's a bit
of an innocence to it. But I mean and also
not like you watch like sucre Lives and Mormon Wives,
But I feel like that's a very extreme example, right,
because you look at other a lot of the general
population of moms and women in Utah, and it's so
(05:17):
much more innocent, so much more like protected. I think
those women are just a lot more exposed to and
not afraid to venture, you know what, I think? Jen
Affleck in the first season was a really great example
of how a lot of them behaved and their mentality
and their disposition the relationship and dynamic with their husbands.
(05:40):
And I think the audience watching and kind of like
their curiosity and confusion and calling things out and vocalizing
their opinions really transformed Jen's perspective because it made her
real be like, oh, it's not like this for everybody,
and it made her and her husband have to reflect
(06:01):
on what the dynamic between a husband and a wife
could look like. It's not just one way. And also
the fact that she gained so much support and love
and influence and it gave her a lot more power
in the marriage dynamic. So I think he had to
he had to change his role. Is very interesting to
(06:23):
watch on TV because most women in Utah don't get
that opportunity. They don't get to have audience kind of
chiming in and giving their opinion and saying, hey, like,
that's actually not the best dynamic to have in a marriage,
like having a man be that authoritative, which in Utah's
(06:44):
it's normal, it's expected. So I think to have an
outside audience, not in Utah culture, not in Mormon bubble
being able to publicize their opinions and comment during like
it it's I think it's made a lot of people
(07:05):
very like it's very because it's normally a very secluded,
exclusive culture and community. Like we're very much you know,
we're at people's schools, we're at people's work, and we
kind of like take pride in or like when I
was a part of it too, like we would take
(07:25):
pride in being a little different, and they would say,
we are peculiar people, and we kind of have like
this like TV type of personality like from the fifties sixties,
like leave it to be for like yeah, just like
kind of go lucky and stay optimistic and look on
the bright side. But a lot of that comes from
being in denial of some of the more serious issues
(07:48):
at hand, right, And so I think it was like
you're kind of in like this fantasy world because you
believe this lore that in the eighteen hundreds, this guy
Joseph Smith, who in Mormons Latter day Saints consider the
prophet of the Restoration. They believe that Joseph Smith saw
(08:12):
God the Father and Jesus Christ like as two separate beings.
Like oh, so that was like a I think that's
different from some other Christian faith where I believe that
it's just one or it's like the Trinity and Catholicism.
Like for them, it's like this is where we were
(08:33):
revealed that there are two separate beings. That God is
a father and Jesus is his son, which means that
we're his brother because we're also children of God. But
they so it's like a lot of this lore. It
kind of feels like you're stepping into like Lord of
the Rings or Star Wars is how I described it
(08:55):
in my book. But there's a lot of that kind
of whimsical imagination. And so you kind of like like
as Mormons, they believe like we are here, they learned
to be long suffering. They believe in sacrifice, they believe
in discipline. I think those are really good traits, yes,
and good qualities that people admire and respect.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yes, And very family oriented, very.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Family oriented, yeah, And so they believe that sacrifice. You
can find joy in the journey. You can find joy
in the sacrifice, and sacrifice brings God's blessings. So you
kind of learn how to have a smile through your hardships.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And repress maybe a lot of you.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Know, yeah, because you're not allowed. We were taught that
anger was bad and yeah, like you so you kind
of you learn to suppress a lot of emotions anger,
but then it would come out in other ways and
behind closed doors. So if like there was a neglectful marriage,
like where the husband or the wife were being abusive
(09:57):
or something, you don't talk about it because we're not
supposed to talk about the negative things. We're supposed to
focus on the good things.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Right, and this is my hardship that I'm supposed to
find the joy in instead of maybe having boundaries for
yourself where you go, No, no one should accept this,
like you think, well, this is just my plight that
maybe I'm supposed to accept.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah, but you know what I was going to say.
I think where Catholicism is very is similar to like
with like Latter day Saints is the fact that shame
is such a big part of the culture. And so
I think that's what's really interesting also about like perco
lives and Mormon wives is you see how shame and
(10:41):
confession is such a part of the culture, which I
think is really sweet. It's beautiful because I think it's
something that a lot of other people and don't feel like, oh,
that's not really a part of their lives and their
mentality and their culture and community where you feel a need.
I feel like Mormons do a lot times overshare, yeah,
(11:01):
and I think you see that with the mom talk,
like they're sharing way more than they probably should be.
But and like in a way that it's like I
realize what I'm doing is wrong, yeah, and I messed
up and stuff, but it's like really beautiful to honesty
behind that.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So I think, you know, I think people always appreciated
that about me too, and I just like they're like, wow,
you're so honest and like so vulnerable. I'm like, but
I was like, well, the culture I come from, Like
that's where, that's how we are. And it's what's interesting, though,
is the more power and influence you have, the less
I feel like, the less transparency there is. So it's
like the followers, a lot of them are expected to
(11:38):
be transparent and honest, but there are people who know
how to play the system and cheat it. And they're like,
wait a second, if I lie, I can manipulate other people,
I can gaslight and I can get away with a
lot of crazy shit here, yeah and so, and they
do right and so. But a lot of the members
themselves are very earnest, very sincere. They want to do
(12:02):
the right thing. Yeah, they don't want to be bad,
and the shame that's instilled in them makes them so
afraid of being bad. But it also can be a
double edged sword because while there's transparency in a lot
of waste, there's suppression and repress feelings and denial. Like
you kind of gaslight yourself, so you're not aware of
reality of a lot of situations where like, for example,
(12:23):
like Jen maybe with like the dynamic with her husband
or me with my sexuality, Like there's a lot of
like I'm very honest, but I'm I'm like so oblivious
to this situation that's going on like right in front
of me and right I'm surrounded by.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Shame is also a really great way to control people.
If you can make them feel ashamed and feel like, well,
I know this awful thing about you.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It really can make.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
People feel like I need you, which is actually something
you kind of talk.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
About with your dad with some.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Of the decisions that your you know, your dad wanted
to make every decision about your song choices, about the arrangement,
about the way you sang them, and then when you
would occasionally get the gall to say I'm going to
do something different, maybe self fulfilling prophecy, and you faltered
a little bit in it. You did have that feeling
of like, see, you're right, I do need to listen
(13:22):
to you. And he would remind he would show you that,
see what happens when you.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Don't listen to me.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Can we talk a little bit about that when it
comes to your dad, and like some of the decisions
that your dad would make for your career and for
your life, and how hard it was for you to
ever speak up and maybe even to know what it
was you wanted for yourself because you had just been
told what you wanted for yourself your whole life.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, it was kind of like I had.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
It was like a not a kink, but like I.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Want to say, a shame kink, but like it's like
addicted to that. I was addicted to the feeling of
it was like I need, I need to feel more
of that, like shame. It was like a form of
a high in a way because it was an intense
feeling and intensity, like I gravitated towards intense feelings, and
(14:13):
my dad is an intense person, so I was around
him all the time. So I think I got used
to feeling this hit of intensity in one form or another,
and so feeling shame not good enough, like wallowing in
how how incapable of a person I was, and how
(14:35):
I didn't know and how lost I was without having
someone to guide me. It was. It kind of was
like a kink, like not in a sexual way, but
like I need more of this feeling or else I'm
not alive. I'm not. I don't know how else to recognize,
Like it was such a familiar feeling that I wanted
to keep feeling it. But I also realized as I
(14:57):
wrote it, like a lot of other performers and entertain
some of my friends, even songwriters and things, but have
they would say I related most to the dynamic between
you and your dad and the book. So I don't know,
if you know, like people like who've I mean, I
didn't even know it until they brought it up after
(15:17):
reading the book where they're like, they're like, I'm in
this business and we all had it in common that
we had a parent, like at least with my friends.
We had just this last week in Nashville's with some
of my friends, and they also had dads who were
just like like a stage dad and controlling in a bit,
(15:38):
And I was like, Oh, this is I didn't realize
how common this was because my friend who encouraged me
to write my book was Jeanette McCurdy, who she talked
all about it in.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Her book, was also one of my favorites.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Yeah, so it's I was like, Wow, this happens a lot.
Like where we a lot of us who are doing
what we're doing, there's also like a bit of resentment
in what we're doing because it's almost like we lost
a parent in the process of getting here, because we
had a parent who helped us get here, but in return,
(16:13):
they're not really like our parent anymore, and I think
you kind of mourn that. So it's like would I
rather have? It was like, would I rather become famous
and a star and have this attention and potential to
live comfortably with money and income and be praised for
my work I'm doing in craft? Are Would I rather
have my dad and just have him as a dad supportive?
(16:38):
And there was a lot of times where it was
like to me, it was like, I would rather not
have any of this. I would rather not have the attention.
I'd rather have a job where I'm struggling more if
it meant that I could just have a dad like
normal and who looked out for me and was proud
of me. And I didn't feel like like my love,
(17:02):
the love I got from him was conditional based on
how well I was doing right.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
It wasn't tied to performance and yeah yeah we uh
so writer or Strong who was on Boy Meets World
with me, who played Sewn and is my co host
on Podmets World. His son has recently started getting into
voice acting. And one of the things I think is
so smart about what he's doing is he, of course
(17:27):
writers been acting since he was, you know, ten years old.
He knows everything there is to know about the industry,
and yet he refuses to be his son's coach. He said,
I will hire someone to play to do that role
for you. I'm just going to be your dad, going
to be your dad. I'm going to support you. I'm
going to drive you to the auditions. I'm going to
(17:48):
be there for you if you want to talk about anything,
if you want to prep if you want to whatever,
I'm there, but I'm not going to be the person responsible,
like the agent, the manager, the acting coach, because it
does get so muddy, the waters get muddied, and like,
thankfully in my situation, neither of my parents.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Had any clue what they knew.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Nothing about the entertainment industry. So they were also both like,
we couldn't help.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
You if we wanted to.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So it's it's interesting to hear you say that, because
you're right when you have when the roles get blurry,
you lose a parent to the job, and that is sad.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Yeah. One of my friends like didn't talk hasn't really
talked to their dad for a decade. Another one is
like complicated and like I didn't talk to my dad
for like seven years. Yeah, and because you kind of
have to like teach them to I don't know, I
don't know why that's such a common thing for a
lot of kids who started in the entertainment industry young.
(18:50):
I'm so glad that you didn't have to, you know that. Yeah,
same dynamic. But I feel like a lot like at
least you know me and Jeannette, I know, I feel
like the are some the examples off the top of
my head. Just it was so intense, and my parents
wanted to live vicariously through us, but they didn't want
(19:11):
us to grow up out of their grasp. And you
know Jeanette, Jeanette's mom wouldn't let her bathe on her
own until she was eighteen. And there are a lot
of things where it's like, I felt like my dad
wanted me to be a little kid, even up until
my twenties. Like I had the mentality in a lot
(19:31):
of ways of a kid, because my dad didn't want
me to grow up and think for myself because it
would mean that I would not need him anymore. And
so I think we come from parents who had abandonment issues,
they had trauma themselves, and so was it was just
very interesting. But you know, I would try to let
(19:53):
my dad if we fought and stuff, I'd try to
let him know. I'm like, hey, Dad, you know, I
sorry this happened, and I just wanted to let you
and I love you. And my dad would say, well,
if you really loved me, then you would let me.
Basically be like you would let me be in charge
of your career, but you don't, which means you don't
love me, and what kind of son would treat their
(20:13):
dad like that, and like that kind of talk it would.
I think it just made me be like, I'm supposed
to love this man, but I also feel like I
need to protect myself from him because I don't This
doesn't make sense. It's very confusing. And the talks that
led to me writing my book devout with Jeanette, Like
(20:35):
we would meet together and talk about and it would
just feel like this back and forth of feeling validated
and seeing us like, oh my gosh, you went through
that too, Oh my gosh, I went through that too.
Oh my gosh, this is what that happened with you
and your mom, like that happened with me and my dad.
And it was just kind of and our parents knew
each other, so like my dad was friends with her mom,
and Jeanette and her mom would come to like some
(20:56):
of my shows and my music video shoots, and I
would like go over there and like visit her mom
because her mom was in the middle of fighting her
her cancer and and there's this kind of wild like
and we also had like the Mormon dynamic as well.
(21:17):
So we both grew up LDS, so we felt this
like kindred, like like this like this bond in those.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Tisand yeah, that you were, you know, somebody who doesn't
know anything about LDS or the entertainment industry or that
parent dynamic. There's so much stuff you get to skip
of being like, of course you know what that's like.
So even just saying like, so we were at church,
she knows exactly what that means to be at church
and what the church days are like and all that dynamic. Yeah,
(21:50):
to feel so seen by someone and to have so
much in common and then to have actually been in
the same circle.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
And I feel like when we would talk a lot
to we would hide behind our parent because we didn't
really have an identity without them. So she would be like, yeah,
my mom, as long as my mom's okay, Like she
wasn't doing anything for herself. And I feel like that's
made it acting a very complicated thing for her because
she was like, I'm doing this for my mom, and
she felt like she was doing it to keep her
(22:19):
mom alive. And so for me, I think the same thing,
and like, well, I'm singing, and the better I sing,
the more my dad will be happy and okay and
feel fulfilled. And so it makes you really gain this
complicated relationship with your art and crowd because it's like, yeah,
I love doing it and get I get acknowledged and
praised for what I'm doing, but it's so attached to
(22:42):
my parent that I really don't want to be associated
with this. It's like a bittersweet thing because like you're
praising me so much, but I don't know how to
see myself in this because my dad's so involved in this,
and I have to do it exactly the way he
wants or else I am gonna get reprimanded for hours.
(23:03):
Like he wasn't like shouting in my face or anything,
but it was like this literally would spend hours. It's
like you need to improve it, you need to correct
what you did wrong.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I know your youth was very heavily connected to the church.
What did you do for fun? Did you?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm sure there were fun moments. What did you guys
do for fun? You and your siblings?
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Yeah, so Florida. No, When I lived in Florida for
a little bit with my older sister, we'd love to
go out and like play with their like ducks, just
like hanging out in our back yard area and like
there's like a pond behind the fence of our the
town homes that we lived in, and we'd always like
we would like find a way to like break the
(23:57):
fence open and escape out so that we could go
catch tadpoles. And we'd always get in trouble for it.
But we would go and we'd like steal some of
the duck eggs, and like, I don't know what we
would do with them.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I was thinking feed the ducks, but then you were
like stealing the duck eggs.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
We would feed the ducks too, Okay, but yeah, I
think we just try to catch them and like them
be our pet, and we I think we used to
get like the duck eggs and like get our dad's
church socks and like swing the eggs around. We weren't
trying to break them.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
We just socks are there specific church.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Sucks, just like like black hot church socks. Okay, But
like I was like four years old and she was five,
so it's not I don't think we knew any better.
We didn't think we were going to hurt the duck. Maybe,
I'm like, I don't know if we were killing the
baby chicks in the side. The eggs but and then
like when we moved to Utah, we just love to
go outside and play in the snow and roller blade.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
We were really into roller blading was great. Yeah, I
loved ll oh. Yes, I did my very first headshot.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's called a compos where you have like all the
different photos like here's me looking studious in front of
some books, and here's me doing One of them was
wearing roller blades jumping in the air and oh my god,
I was able to jump, touch my roller blades to
my bottom and then land on my roller blades.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Very talented.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Very Is it weird to have so much, like you know,
is it weird for you that like so much of
like your life day to day, Like you've lived so
much life and like, you know, that was when you
were a kid and you're an adult now. Is it
weird that so much of your life and like the
topics that people ask you about are from your childhood?
(25:39):
Like is that? Where is it?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Like? I mean, it's so normal now, but is it
kind of weird sometimes to think like, oh, like you know,
compared to like what other people talk about, We're not
usually talking about their child their childhood but everyone wants,
Like so much of your childhood was public and publicize
and there for everyone to see, like like to say, yeah,
my headshots and like when I was rollerblading as a kid,
(26:02):
like and it's like and every and people saw that,
and so like people still come to you and ask
and talk to you about your childhood and your child self.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think I was aware while it was happening that
I was peaking, So it's not yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Was like this, this is gonna.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Be peing, like you know, like I have.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
A feeling it's gonna be all downhill for You're so
self aware, You're such a self waged kid, Like that's
so interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, I think I was aware, like, yeah, this is
what else is there from you know?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Like I do.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I do also know similarly to the way you talked
about with your dad, feeling like you were singing to
bring him joy. And now it's given you an opportunity
to re establish or figure out, what is my real
feeling on my career and what do I want?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
What are my goals, what are my thoughts.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
It's freaky. It's freaky because I'm like, I'm not used
to thinking for myself, and you feel so like I'm
going to fail, right, because that's what I was always told,
Like if I do, if I think for myself, I
am going to ruin my life. So it's you have
to like unprogram that and be like, okay, how do
I feel? What makes what makes me happy? And it's
and you feel selfish to even ask that. It's like
(27:19):
I'm not supposed to ask myself what makes me happy?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
How dare I who? This isn't about me, This life
is not about.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Me, And that comes from my dad and church, like
the Mormon way of living. Like that's why I like
for for Latter day Saints, and I think a lot
of religions, like being gay is so selfish. How could
you live your life for you like you can't create?
I mean, well, now they do have ways, like you
know Lance, you're friends with Lance too, with Michael, my
(27:46):
long term boyfriend. Oh my gosh, so you know, yeah,
you know that experience too, so because I like I
talked about my ex fiancees and my my book.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
I had three of them, but I know I at
the time, but my heart broke for all three of
them and also for you in every situation because having.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Now experienced that from on.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Basically, it feels like both sides because with Lance him
being able to explain to me so intimately the same
things you so vulnerably explained in your book about the
thoughts that go through your head, the mental gymnastics you
have to do in order to try to convince yourself that, yeah,
I'm going to be able to live an entire life
(28:34):
telling myself that I'm just battling, struggling same sex attraction.
And it is hard that you do love these people.
You did love the women you were engaged too. It
was just a passionless type of love that is not
a long term family dynamic that you want to that
(28:54):
you that you can or should even be expected to maintain.
So hearing you you talk about it so beautifully and
your fiances were all so accepting of hearing you talk
about that you were battling same sex attraction.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
They were like okay, and.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Then very understanding when you eventually came out. Do you
have conversation? Do you talk to any of them now?
Have you spoken to them?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I talked to two of them. One of them I
haven't spoken to since it ended. Okay, it was really traumatic.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, I'm sure it was grateful for her.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
She had a lot of other things happen as well,
Like she like she was from Mexico, and the week
that I ended things with her, she was going to
see some of her friends and her friend got like
she was like, yeah, I'm going to go see my friend,
and her friend I mean got abducted.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah, And so that happening in the same week that
things ended was very traumatic for her, and so I
think just it was too much for her. So I
felt so bad, and so I mean I didn't I
had no idea none. How could you have any idea
that that's going to happen. But yeah, so it was
just it was kind of weird because like before, like
(30:17):
she was telling me how she was looking forward to
seeing her friends, and then and then we had that
call and we ended things, and then right, you know,
just days before she was supposed to spend time with
her friend, that happened. And so it I just haven't
talked her, but you know, my sister showed me like
a post that she did where she was she was
(30:38):
still very Mormon, and she made a post saying I'm
very grateful. It was Thanksgiving and a lot of Mormons
love to say what they're thankful for, and she said,
I want to. I'm so thankful for for my gay
friends and for gay people. And she was saying listening
to all the things why her gay friends specifically were
such a light and blessing in her life, and that
(30:59):
for me was very healing to hear about. And I
just respected her so much because I felt like a
failure to her and I felt like, how could a
girl forgive you for ruining her future? Is how I
was feeling. And to see that, you know, Okay, maybe
it wasn't that if she never spoke to me again,
(31:20):
it wasn't because I was gay or queer. It was because,
you know, it was just messy. I had my trauma
and it was definitely coming through in the relationship that
we had, and I hadn't figured myself out yet. So
just to see that she was always supportive and stood
(31:41):
up for people, like she's posting, like in front of
all of her other Mormon friends on Thanksgiving like I'm
thankful for gay people. I think this is amazing. Before
it was really cool to do. Yeah, it's becoming like
more accepting as time goes on, like year by year,
which I'm so happy to see. Yes, but like I was, yeah,
(32:01):
so yeah, even though I haven't spoken to her, it
was cool to see her say that.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
So, I want to talk to you a little bit
about your experience at American Idol. I want to talk
about your first experience with the show where you end
up at a life taping and then at an after
party you sing for Paula Abdul Well, you kind of
sing for everybody, and Paula comes walking up to you
and was very supportive. And she's still somebody that is
(32:37):
in your life. She wrote the forward to your Very Sweet.
She's so sweet that feeling of being your dad kind
of pushed you forced you into singing publicly.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Did that happen often? And is does it?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Was it as uncomfortable as it feels for me just
hearing about Yeah, it makes.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
You uncontable because sometimes I feel like I'm just an
ungrateful son. I didn't appreciate it my dad. I'm I
wouldn't be doing what I'm doing without my dad. But
that's also what makes you so like in limbo about
everything that's going on. It's like, I owe my dad
to this, but I still and yeah, I resent a
lot of our dynamic because you know, it's like, I'm
(33:20):
grateful that you were the you helped me get here,
but I also just wish sometimes I could have my
dad that I like, I would love to just be
able to trust him and not have him like critiquing
everything I do and putting me down and if he
sees something he doesn't like about my life and making
it condition all that's like, if you don't let me
(33:41):
come back in your life, then I'm going to keep
I'm not going to look at the positive things or doing.
But we've grown out of that luckily, Like we've gotten
to a good place. And it came with boundaries, which
he was pissed off about, but you know, learned to
respect over the years. It took years and I was like,
this is never going to happen. I'll probably never talk
(34:01):
to my dad again, but we've come to a good place.
I mean, he's it's kind of gotten sticky since I
was like, Dad, I'm going to release a book and
I'm going to talk about all this all this stuff
that we went through, which he wasn't happy about. But
I think he's also just he's a strong guy and
he respects it. And I was like, Dad, I talk
about abuse. That's what my experience with what it was.
(34:22):
And he's he doesn't agree with it, but I'm like,
you know what, that's okay. You don't have to agree.
But I'm like, you know you, if you you were
the one who wanted me to get to this place
in the first place, this wouldn't have happened if the
dynamic between you and me didn't exist. And I have
there's that it's not my it's not a true story
(34:42):
if I don't talk about our dynamic. So but anyway,
we'd be in a grocery store, like and like the
cash the person checking us out, you'd just say, you
see that kid over there, that's my son, my son.
He's the greatest singer on earth. And I'm like oh
(35:05):
and she and I remember, she's like oh really okay,
and then he's like you don't believe me. Oh, But
I was just like I was singing on demand like that,
and he's like, okay, David sing for her. And I
was like, what's the point of this, what's the point
of this? And I think because it wasn't building my ego,
(35:27):
it wasn't making me feel more confident. It was just
very embarrassing for me, and I felt like I was
a puppet, Like I felt like I was my dad's
toy to show off, and he was a proud dad.
He was a proud dad. So it's like I think
he he just got a kick out of it. He
didn't think of it as like I'm using my son.
(35:48):
I think he just was excited to see people's reaction,
because they did always react. She was like, okay, She's like,
yeah he can he can really sing. Yeah, so and
that that's what he did. You know. The reason I
was singing to Paula Abdul and the book was because
same thing he was like sing for them. And I
was like I don't want to. I like really didn't
(36:10):
want to. I didn't like to be put on the spot.
I didn't like the attention. Yeah, so I think it
was hard. I had to I've had to learn how
to like attention, but I didn't. I didn't like it
to begind. I was like, I would have been fine.
I used to say, like I would write in my
journal sometimes as a teenager, like a young teenager before
American idol and things, and I was like, I'm like,
(36:30):
why am I even a human? I'm like, I would
have been completely content if God just created me as
a rock and made me a rock in the middle
of the desert where I can just be by myself,
bask in the sun and just fulfill my my creator,
like my existence. Then that way, I'm.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Like, why don't I have to get get married?
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Or I'm like why am I here? I'm like, I
guess I have to appreciate being a human and whatever
comes at that. But I was like, I just would
have loved to have just been to myself and kept
to myself. I loved roller just by myself alone in
the neighborhood, Satan. Hi to all the widows and retired people.
Because I was homeschooled, so a lot of talk.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
The only friends your agent during the day, they're all
at school.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
They're all at school. So I'd just be like, hi,
missus Gillespie, how are you? Oh gosh, did you have
a missus? Okay? I love that. I love that that name. No,
I would have like we would call I mean, most
of my neighbors were yeah you know, yes, so all
the widows, like most of everyone in my neighborhood was Mormon,
(37:31):
so I'd be like, Hi, sister Higbee, Hi sister Stephenson.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
So it's And what I loved about them is that
they didn't care. I mean, you know, because I was
I was feminine, and I guess the way I talked
like people would say, okay, like he's a oh you're
you're you're gay or you're you sound like a girl.
But the older, the old ladies didn't care. So I
(37:56):
love to be with them because they didn't judge me,
they didn't make fun of me, and they just let
me keep them company. I loved that. I loved not
being the center of attention. They would tell me their stories.
They'd be like, yeah, when I tell that in like
when I got I don't know, so like my I
had four kids and then my husband left me and
I had to raise my four kids on my own,
and then I got I found so hard. I found
(38:18):
my husband and he was amazing. And I just loved
to just be there and I'm like, do you need
hop like washing your dishes or some of them would
let me come in with my rollerblades and I was
like no, I'm They're like, oh, just keep them on,
and they just rollerblading around the house. Yeah, I would
just like walk and like try not to like stay
in their floors or whatever. But I just loved it,
like I loved existing without being the one in the spotlight?
(38:42):
Were you frustrating me?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Ever?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Jealous of all those children who had no natural god
given talent? So what it would be like to just
be like one of you?
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I did, because I was like, what is it like
to just like play and like run around and play
and not feel like you're being because I always I
felt like I was always being watched, even though I wasn't,
but the dynamic had with my dad made me feel
like I was always being watched, And so I always
(39:12):
second guest what I said, how I moved, and I
try to just really blend in the background and be
quiet because I'm like, if I say something, it might
be wrong. If I do something, it might be wrong.
And so I would see kids and they didn't even
think twice about what they did, what they said, and
they got hurt, they got it, and I really, you know,
(39:34):
it wasn't until you say it now, I'm like, yeah,
I was a very cautious person, and like if some
of the times, like the other church, kids would invite
me over to watch a movie or for a sleepover stuff.
I would always stand in the back, which is creepy.
I was like, I'm such a creeper. And they'd be like,
come sit with us, come sit and like watch and
(39:55):
I was like, no, I'm okay. I was so afraid
of being seen. Yeah, And I think it also how
to do with the fact that I felt like I
was hiding something big, which I didn't know what it was,
but it was my sexuality. And I'm like, if I
come and be in your presence, you're gonna notice me. Yeah,
And I'm so afraid of that. So but they would
still invite me, and I'm like, they're such sweet neighborhood right,
other just.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Kids trying and include you, even though you were like,
I will watch you and pretend I'm participating.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Really, I'm on the outskirts. So when you then are.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
On American Idol and you mentioned like whether it was
in the neighborhood or I imagine there was talk about
whether or not you were gay in the public while
you were on the show.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
My dad would tell me all the time, it is
like speculating about whether you're a gay or not. I'm like, okay,
thanks for letting me know.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I can't even imagine how that would feel to have
other people speculating about something you have not even fully
wrapped your mind around at all, and to just have
other people talking about it so openly. So what was
that feeling like for you? Was that terrifying to feel
like other people were seeing you?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Yeah? That was part of why I was so terrified
of staying on American Idol, right because I'm like, so
many people are talking about me in a way I
don't want to be talked about. I'm like, I just
want to sing and then disappear, but I have to still,
like have people talk about me wonder what I'm like.
And I was so uncomfortable with it. That's why I
hated being on the show. And so when people would
(41:25):
be like, oh, you must be having the time of
your life and cloud and I'm like, I've me I
don't want to run. I'm like I literally there were
times where I would be in the classroom because you know,
as of course, I still have to do school time
even do though you're doing so much other stuff. And
I would be in the classroom doing my school work
and I'd be like, I could just run away right now,
(41:48):
I could just escape. I could run and hide and
know and I would know where I was. I can
leave my phone right here. Oh, they couldn't find me,
and I don't have to do this shit anymore. So
I was like, but then I was like the dutiful
Mormon in me was like, no, so many people relying
on me, and I'm like, God put me here for
a reason. I'm supposed to be an example for him.
Like I think a lot of Mormons think that way.
(42:09):
I'm sure, like, yeah, I feel like sometimes when I
watch Whitney, I'm like, I wonder if that's how she's
It's like, I'm here because I'm supposed to be an
example for everyone else, and I think it's like that
the performer Mormon, And like, I see, so I've mentioned
this another time on an but I was like, sometimes
I watch Whitney and I relate so much to it
(42:29):
that I cringe, Like you should be like that, yeah,
where it's like you you know, it's not even like
a lot of Mormons could do relate it, but like
the Mormon performer, it's like this other thing because you
feel like you have to be on and and as
a theater performer you already turn on, but as a
(42:50):
Mormon performer, you turn on in a different way because
it's like, I'm a representation of God and I have
the Gospel in my life and and you're kind of condition.
So it's like two yeah ways of being on collide together.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
But oh God, anyway.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Your whole family has left the church now, right, Yeah,
what is your relationship like with your family now?
Speaker 4 (43:25):
It's it's like complicated and beautiful and wonderful. You know.
I didn't really get to fully relate to my dad
until I left, right because when I came out, my
dad was fully supportive of me, which I wasn't expecting.
I thought he was going to criticize me or have
something to say because he always did in the past.
(43:47):
So I hadn't really been talking to him. And I
was like, you know, I should reach out to my
dad because it's like, I'm sure he's hearing about it.
And so I was like Dad, and he's like that,
He's like, some, I'm so happy for you, I'm so
proud of you. And I wasn't. I was like, wow,
we've really grown because he's not criticizing me, or saying
you could have done it this, or you should have
done this, or how could you?
Speaker 2 (44:08):
It was feels like that's maybe the only response you
wouldn't have prepped yourself for. Yeah, You're like, okay, I'm
gonna call him. Here are all the different things he's
going to say. He's going to have a complaint about
how I did it, what I said when I did
it something, And you're not thinking what am I going
to say when he says I'm so proud of you son?
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
That what was your response when he said that?
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Yeah, because every phone call that I would have before
would always end up.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
In a fight, right and yeah, and yeah, Like.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
I'm just like he's not stopping, so I'm just going
to hang up.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
And then.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
So it was weird. It like was like twenty thirty minutes.
It's like this is so short. And he was talking
about how he went to a gay club like a
gay bar one time out of curiosity to see because
someone invited him to go and he's like, sure, I'll
go see and and just it was like, you know,
he grew up more Manti, so you know when people
were saying that I was getting he was like it
(45:03):
was like a part of him, like the Mormon dad,
and because he was still a Mormon at the time,
felt like he needed to protect me from gay men
because you know, they're always painted in a very bad light.
I guess the sexual beings that just were perverts and
what he didn't know what they're gonna do to me,
And so I was like, oh, I don't want to.
But now I'm realizing, like it's like I don't know.
(45:24):
And I think it's so interesting that it's like, not
the openly gay men that you have to worry about,
it's the closeted ones that you have to worry about
because they're dealing with suppressed feelings and suppressed feelings and
being in denial about is this not never good? It
always comes out in a very messy way, which I
think is why you see a lot of closeted conservative
and like religious leaders. Yeah, who who take out their
(45:49):
suppressed feelings on vulnerable people. Yeah, or even so it's anyway,
it's and.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Also have the mindset that maybe the the reason I'm
having these feel is because I'm not Godly enough or
I'm not close I'm not close enough to God. And
the next thing, you know, you're a part of the
of the church, because you feel like maybe that will
fix me.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Maybe the closer I can get, the better off I
will be.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Yeah, and even become obsessed with it. Like I learned
in therapy that I had like a form of OCD
with religion, and it was coming from a like a
religious therapist. She was helping me recognize that this scrupulosity
is what it's called religious OCD. And I've I learned
(46:36):
later on that it's very common for queer people in
religion to become scrupulous because they it's yeah, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Well does your dad look back on American Idol fondly?
Have you asked him ever, Like.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I don't know. Yeah, I imagine he does, because he
was very involved in it, and I feel like he
felt like anything he touched was great and perfect, and
it was almost like he's like if I wasn't there,
it would have been a disaster, and that's how he
treats everything. So sometimes I think, No, I think that's
(47:14):
why I blocked a lot of what happened, because I
had to go back and watch the American Ale episodes.
Because my book publishers are like, we want you to.
We really want you to talk about this. We want
to give you your advance and stuff. And so I
was like, okay, what happened then? And I so, and
I'd written another memoir before when I was a teenager.
(47:37):
But my dad would constantly say, if I weren't there,
it would have been a mess. My dad's are you
saying anything I did myself would have been And he
basically I don't think he realized that's what he was saying,
but that is what he was saying. And He's like,
it would have been a disaster if I weren't there.
I'm like, Dad, do you know how many managers I
tried to meet with? And you ruined the relationship? Like
(47:58):
I couldn't continue in my career because he would call
me and say who are you meeting with? And da da.
He would call me like seven, eight, nine times in
a row and leave me all these messages because he
was so like, I have to know what you're doing.
You're going to ruin your career, You're going to ruin
your life if you don't let me know what's going on.
(48:20):
And I would like pick up because I'm like, well
he's my dad. After and He's like, let me talk
to them. I have your best interests. All of these
other people are out to get you. This entertainment industry
is horrible. It's a mess. Everyone's backstabbing. And I was like, oh,
I guess there's a little bit of that going on you,
so maybe I should. He's like, I'm your dad. Though
no one will have your best interests at heart the
(48:42):
way your dad does. He's like, on top of that,
I have divine inspiration as your dad, given from God
to be a steward over you, to receive revelation on
your behalf. So I can the spirit will help me
discern whether these men or these managers you're meeting with
are the right one for you. And then I like
(49:04):
met with some I talked to a couple of those
managers I met with like years later, and they'd be like, yeah,
like you're you're dad. Because he would say, no, they weren't.
They're not the right one for you.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I could tell their intentions are bad.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
And a lot of them would say like afterwards, like, yeah,
your dad made a condition that he had to be
co manager if we worked with you, and so if
they didn't say yes and didn't agree that my stage
dad wouldn't. Yeah, you know, I think it was kind
of weird for them to hear, like be having a
separate conversation with that I wasn't involved in, and I
(49:37):
would funnel all of them like I can't work with
you until you talk to my dad. And I was
nineteen years old, nineteen twenty years old, and nope, I
can't function without my dad. So ooh, it was interesting, guys.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
David stuck around for a bonus episode where we get
more into his incredible journey and we hear from one
of you, a listener with their own childhood horror story
that drops Friday on the dedicated teen Beat podcast feed.
Just go wherever you listen to podcasts and search for
teen Beat and subscribe. That way you never miss another episode.
And please pick up David Archiletta's new book, Devout, Losing
(50:15):
My Faith to find Myself, a truly remarkable memoir from
a truly remarkable individual. It's available everywhere, but maybe go
support your local bookseller.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
They could use the help.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Teen Beat is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by
Danielle Fischel. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman Executive
in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Subosch.
The theme song is by Mark Coppis Yes that Mark Coppus.
Follow us on Instagram at teen beat Pod.
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