August 27, 2026 • 34 mins
Ryan Howard spent more than a decade as one of baseball’s most feared hitters. Since retiring, he’s built an interesting second act as an entrepreneur and investor, with bets spanning everything from the “Topgolf of baseball” to youth sports and professional soccer.
In this episode of The Deal, Ryan tells Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly how he transitioned from playing baseball to investing in ventures like Batter Up that will help more people play baseball, why making deals can feel like playing baseball, and which issues he thinks could shape the labor fight between the MLB and the players' union.
You can also watch this interview on the Bloomberg Podcasts YouTube page.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
News.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Welcome back to The Deal.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. Today, we've got a
great one. We love talking baseball, especially in season, especially
when there's so much.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Going on around the game.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Alex has said a number of times this is one
of the most pivotal years in the history of the sport,
certainly the modern history. We sat down with Ryan Howard. He,
of course, won a World Series, a National League, Most
Valuable Player. He spent his entire career with the Philadelphia Phillies.
I mean, that's saying something in its own right. And
since leaving baseball, Ryan has built an investment portfolio across
(00:45):
sports and entertainment. One of his most interesting companies is
called Batter Up. Think Topgolf for baseball. He's also got
a stake in a Liga MX team. That's the professional
soccer league down in Mexico. So we talk about that.
We talk a lot about baseball, the state of the
game heading into and amidst this really massive collective bargaining
(01:08):
agreement negotiation between the players and the league and the owners.
He had some thoughts and we know Alex always does too.
All right, coming up, Ryan Howard. Welcome back to The Deal.
(01:29):
I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Buckle up, folks. This is going to be a good one.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
We have been so excited to catch up with Ryan Howard,
of course, former Philadelphia Philly World Series champion. National League,
most valuable player. He has some things in common with
our beloved A-Rod here. Knows baseball better than anyone. And
I can't wait for you guys to chop it up
(01:53):
on that. Also, so much interesting stuff going on in
your business life, Ryan. And you're joining us from the ATL.
So even better.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Great to have you.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Hey, thank you guys so much for having me. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
All right, Alex, I'm going to start by asking you,
I'm going to do this a little bit different. You
tell me, because we've talked a little bit offline, tell
me about Ryan.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Tell me about Ryan in front of him.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, so Ryan is a few years younger than me,
as you can tell by his skin, and it's much
better than mine.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Smooth operator.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Now, Ryan is one of these guys that, You know,
even when you play against him, you can't help but
love him and respect him.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
He did everything the right way.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
He was always very respectful. In the World Series, we played, obviously,
some very high-leverage games against each other while we weren't
in the same league. We ultimately had the ultimate respect
for the Philadelphia Phillies. And then what he's been able
to do post-baseball, the way he's been able to transfer
to be an advisor to Rob Manford, to being involved
with the union... to doing his podcasting with my boy
(02:55):
Rollins and the way he conducts himself with his family.
It's really the epitome. of what you want a major
league baseball player. And if I was a kid like Lombard,
I would say, look at Ryan Howard as a role model.
Look at Derek Jeter, look at Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettit
to put them in the names that I feel that
he belongs in that pedestal.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, and Ryan, it's interesting too, because you know, there are,
there are some shades of, of my partner here in
what you've done from the, from the business side. So
let's jump into it. You've got some ownership. I think
we're especially interested in, in batter up. So talk to
us about that deal because it, I'm so taken with
it and it feels like so of the moment in
(03:36):
the best possible way.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So first let me, let me echo one thing on,
on Alex and, and give him his flowers as well.
It was always fun being able to watch him do
what he did. This is the smooth operator. I was
a little clunky on defense. He was a little smoother
than I was over there, you know, with the glove
at short and third, but I think with what he
was able to do hitting wise, being able to change,
(04:02):
change the flow. And as you mentioned, yeah, he did.
They took that World Series in 09. So, you know,
you got to give props where props is due. But
he did mention one thing where he's talking about, you know,
George Lombard. And I think for Alex and myself, the
difference was when we played, the mindset was you were
earning your check.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
That was it. That was supposed to be your end all.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Where in today's environment, it's like baseball is the springboard
to the next game.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And so that's the way I've kind of looked at
it from transitioning from baseball. And if I could go
back and tell my 25 year old self that I
would have been start sooner, start way sooner.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
And, you know, I think where.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You kind of get closer to the end of the
career and you start trying to see, you know, what
is it that I really want to do?
Speaker 5 (04:53):
There's some things here I'm very interested in.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And when you make that transition, I wish I would
have been able to start it earlier. And I think
this crop of players now with what we have in
social media, everybody, number one, is their own brand. And
they're able to capitalize on that as well now more
so than I think what we were really able to.
(05:18):
So there's so many more, I think, opportunities for players
now and just athletes, entertainers to start looking postseason. career
for athletes and then just continuing to build if you're
an entertainer, because as long as you got a voice
or you can act or whatever, you may still be
able to find a job. So but jumping into batter up,
(05:41):
you know, batter up for me, the fun part was
was being able to hit home runs on the field.
And now it's kind of like being able to try
to provide that opportunity to everybody else. So what we
kind of liken it to is the top golf of baseball,
(06:01):
where it's an open-aired concept, where we have the pitching machines,
you have the entertainment, if you will. And thus far,
I mean, it's been great. We're putting it together, looking
at trying to go and now raise into a Series
A team. and provide a great experience for fans where
(06:22):
it's not your normal batting cage. It's where you can come,
you can see kind of the live pitching with the
live pitching type pitching machines and get that experience. So
everybody who's out there talking trash about guys going up
there missing and swinging and all that kind of stuff,
you get to experience what it's like.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
So, Ryan, I like where you started there. It sounds
like a wonderful concept. I guess if you don't mind
playing along here, we'll play a little Shark Tank. So
inside 45 seconds, you mentioned you're raising some capital, Series A.
Tell us, if you don't mind, whatever you can disclose.
What's the enterprise value coming in, kind of pre and post?
(07:05):
And how much are you looking to raise? And then
what would you do with those funds?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So right now it's still a very early concept. So
we're looking to raise the Series A, so about $ 15,
$ 16 million. We're looking in Phoenix as the first location.
The concept is going to be about 15.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
To 20 bays.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
There's an upstairs deck with that little kind of party deck,
if you will. And basically right now, that's where we are.
We're looking at kind of raising that $ 15 million. And
that money will go into obviously getting the property as
well as starting the construction on the first batter up.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
And so how does a deal like this come to you, Ryan?
Or is this a concept that you developed? Like, what's
the genesis here?
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So, I mean, obviously, it's just through different networks, through
different networks of people. It was funny where when it
came to me, it came to me through a.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Friend of mine, Mike Fonseca.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And I was actually the universe has crazy ways of working.
And so I was actually thinking about something along those lines.
And then Mike hit me up and he's like, hey,
there's these two brothers, Matt Bell and Greg Bell. that
have this concept that's kind of like the baseball version
(08:21):
of Topgolf. And I was like, man, your ears must
be ringing. The universe is ringing something. And I've talked
to those guys, went over it, love the concept, love
what it was about.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
And, you know, love, love the people more.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So I love the people and I love the concept
and wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Interesting.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Interesting.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
I like how you said if Ryan Howard today at
46 would give advice to Ryan Howard at 25, would
I like you to help me understand and our audience
is take us inside. If you can give us a
little x-rays to what's going on in your brain when
you're 25, 30, as far as strategy, what were your
goals and what did you think as a role model
for me? That was magic Johnson. I thought he had
(09:04):
a blueprint to what I wanted to do. Therefore I
went to him and met for him with three and
a half hours. And he gave me the most incredible
advice where I still have nine pages of notes and
So that was kind of my roadmap.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
What was yours?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny because at that age, 23, 24, 25,
you're just thinking about getting to the big leagues.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
You know, it's a lot different.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Today, than where it was when we were playing to
where you had to have your stuff sewed up, you know, everything,
your game had to be on point or whatnot. Are
you going back down to AAA? My situation was a
little bit different. I came up 24, 25-ish.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
I had Jim Tomey. In front of me at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So for me, the focus was getting up to the
big leagues and didn't necessarily have the foresight right then.
Because again, my mindset at that time was like, OK,
my money is going to be made here in the
big leagues.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Get that long term deal and, you know, you'll be
you'll be good.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
But as we know, things change, the environment change, the
game changes and social media, everything comes up. Your brand
is now your brand. Your brand used to just be, hey,
let me go out here and endorse you. you know,
this company or that company. Now it's you are a
brand to where, yes, you can go and endorse that
(10:26):
company or you can say, hey, you know what? My brand,
my personal brand is so big. Give me equity in
that company instead.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
I'd rather have that.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So it was more so along those lines that later
on in my career, looking at that was what kind
of started to change that mindset to where I wish
I would have been able to get turned on to
that earlier in my career to kind of start planning
(10:54):
post-career like that.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And so, Ryan, you touched on something that I think
is probably at the heart of so many of these
conversations that we have, and Alex obviously embodies it in
a big way, as do you, which is this notion
of endorsement versus ownership and.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
The equity piece.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
And I would love for you to talk to us
about your investment in Liga MX in I'm going to
try this.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Querétaro Gallos Blancos.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Did I get it?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Querétaro.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Thank you. Okay, good.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I mean, we're coming off the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Obviously, people are so into soccer, football, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
How does that deal get to you?
Speaker 4 (11:33):
And tell us about the mechanics and how you approach it.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Yeah, I mean, again, it's just through networks.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It's actually with the– I feel Capital and Mark Spiegel,
it's funny because I know Mark, who helps lead that group.
our kids are in the same school. So it kind
of came, it came, you know, pretty, pretty quick with me.
(12:01):
And I've always loved soccer. I grew up playing soccer,
always enjoyed it. I enjoy watching the English premier league.
So I was, I was in my element loving watching
the world cup this past, past summer. And so he
brought the idea to me and it just made so
much sense with the The World Cup coming up, I
was like, oh, in Mexico, the United States and Canada,
(12:25):
just a bigger overall play because.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Mexican League is is is growing.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I think soccer here in North America, especially now after
World Cup, is continuing to grow. And the deal was
just too good to pass up. So I said, hey, man,
I'd love to be in it. And that's how I
came to be.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
So Ryan, walk us through how you think about deal flow,
you know, like capital allocation. How do you think about
deploying capital? You mentioned sometimes you can invest, sometimes you
can get equity. Maybe there's a little bit of a
hybrid where you can earn it over time with your
sweat equity.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
What do you look for in deals and what gets
you excited?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind
is obviously the person. I like to look at Obviously,
having played baseball and using a lot of the baseball,
you'll get a lot of the baseball terminology from me
because I see what we learned from playing baseball, the
work ethic, the patience that you have to have, the preparation,
(13:40):
everything that goes into that, right?
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Obviously, studying the term sheets.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
But the first thing that you do is you meet
the person and you try to learn their story, try
to get to understand their story.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Alex, you know what it was like.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
You know the work that you put in behind the scenes,
the blood, sweat, tears, all the stuff that the people
didn't see. Because what did they see? They saw the
finished product. They saw Alex Rodriguez on the field doing
his thing. And so you get to peek behind the
curtain and first get to learn about the founder. That's
(14:14):
first and foremost. And I've got to feel good about that.
The concept is the concept. And it's looking at something
that's okay.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
One thing.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Either a huge disruptor or two, something that's more like
organic to me to where it's like, okay, I really
enjoy that. Or that's something that I would do on
the regular. So, I mean, a lot of different things
with sports, with batter up, those.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Types of things I like to look.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Into and then dive into the numbers and see, okay,
How do we disrupt?
Speaker 5 (14:48):
How do we turn this around? Ultimately, at the end
of the day, how do we make money? There you go.
How do we make money?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I mean, it's as cut and dry. I had a
great dear friend of mine, Steve Korman. He said, Ryan,
I'm going to give it to you short and sweet.
He's in real estate. And he said, look, they can
throw all these sheets in front of you and all
this other stuff in front of you. But at the
end of the day, how much is coming in? How
(15:17):
much is going out? So when you can get it
to make sense, then it makes sense.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Love that.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I have to say, it's so funny that you say
that because one of the best questions Alex Rodriguez has
ever asked on this show, and I'll leave it to
the audience to go back and find this if they want,
was very simply to a guest on the show, so
explain to me how you make money because it wasn't obvious.
And that's the thing is that like so many times
(15:46):
you just got to get, you got to keep it
a bean and get it down to get it down
to that question.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, at the end of the day, that's what we're,
that's what we're sitting in the meeting for. That's what
you're getting pitched for. So it's ultimately, okay. The concept,
I understand the concept.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Got it. Got it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
But all right. So how do we make money in
certain things? You're, you're looking at it from the roundabout way.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Okay. So when and how do we make money?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So it's, You know, you understand that there's two sides
of the coin. Just like with baseball, you can do
everything right. You can do all the due diligence in
the world and everything looks good. Same way we can
go in the cage before a game, take batting practice,
hit off the tee, do all this stuff, watch film,
do whatever we need to do. And still go out
(16:31):
there and go over for it. So you got to
have a little bit of luck as well with it,
but also understand, okay, I've got to stick with it.
And the other thing is to perseverance, perseverance, because I
tell people a lot with baseball. And again, sorry for
all the baseball references, but I used to say baseball
was a game of failure, but I flipped it and
(16:55):
it's more of a game of perseverance because it's the
only sport you can play and fail consistently. 70% of
the time and still be considered successful. I look at
that in business at times as well, because you can
have multiple businesses that you invest in. Some of them
don't work, but you get that one or two that
hit a home run. Those other ones that didn't work
(17:17):
don't matter.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah. Listen, no apologies for the baseball references.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
We're going to talk a lot of baseball as we
go on.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
And I think you, I believe the technical term for
Alex as it relates to baseball is he's a baseball sicko.
So you never have to apologize on this show for
talking too much baseball.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And to that end, talk to us about Philly. I mean,
and playing there.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
You know, it's just down the road from us in
New York.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
My son actually went to college just outside of Philadelphia
at Swarthmore College.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I spent a lot of time down there.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
And it's a sports town like no other, as our
friend LeBron James is about to find out. So from
your perspective, help us understand that because the business of
Philadelphia sports must have been fascinating to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And you must have taken something away from that.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I mean, first off, it's a blue collar town, obviously
from the sports standpoint, and they're going to keep you honest.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Um, they want a blue collar effort every single day.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And as long as you can go out there and
go give them that, then, you know, they'll, they'll stay
off you for, for the most part.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But, um, But the thing is, too, in terms of
learning about the business aspect in Philadelphia, it's again, it
is it's the people. It's being able to interact with
the people, being able to talk to the people and
ask them what it is that they like in in
different things. So, you know, if it's whatever it is
(18:50):
from the business standpoint. So if it's like if I'm
doing batter up in Philadelphia, hey, what can we do better?
What would you like to see giving them that input?
Because they love to have input. They love, they're going
to tell you one way or the other. So you
might as well, you know, make them, make them feel
a part of it. And so I think that is
very big too, is being able to go to the
(19:10):
consumer and have those conversations and take that constructive criticism.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I mean, Alex Philly, it's, it's done like any, but
like it, you, You played in a lot of different ballparks,
and those fans, I have to say, I have to think,
they're tough, right?
Speaker 6 (19:28):
I mean, I think Ryan would echo what I have
to say about the Philly fans. I think he would
say about the Yankee fans. It's number one, blue collar.
They want an honest day's work. I love DiMaggio's famous
quote where he said, you know, there's a family out
there saved all their money, and they may just move
to one game.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And I want to play. I want to play hard.
I want to play well.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
And I think that's the way— that ryan and ike
you know went about it and remember the generation before
was larry boy and buddy bell and you know pete
rose and guys that just got after it and that
was the role model like you it wasn't an option
to run to first you ran your butt to first
base and But from the fan base, ultimate respect, incredible wisdom.
(20:09):
You got a guy on second. You hit a ground
about a second. You got a standing ovation.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
St.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Louis does that. Cubs fans do that. Red Sox.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
I mean, there's a lot of great fan bases, but
the elite fan base, I really do believe they live
in the Northeast. Three of my friends got arrested in
two games in the World Series, but not real jail.
In Philly's jail at that stadium. And I said, what
were you doing? They said, we were like, you know,
waving our beads for good luck. And they said, you
guys are going into jail.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I'm like, wait, wait.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I mean, Philly's sports jail. I don't doubt it. Philly's
sports jail is like, what a metaphor.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So, Ryan, as we talk more about baseball, Alex has
said on this show and he said it online, offline,
probably on social media, probably on Fox. This year for
baseball is among the most important that we've seen in
a long time.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
As Alex mentioned at the.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Top, you have a lot of great perspective on how
the mechanics of this all works.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
This CBA is critical. What's your take at.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
This moment on kind of where we are and where
we need to get to as it relates to this negotiation?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
My personal take on the whole thing is this. I
think the game is back close for me. is back
close to a place of where it was in 94
before the strike took place in 94. You look at
(21:54):
the World Series we just had. You look at the
World Baseball Classic we just had. The excitement for baseball
is back. Um, I don't know that the odds and
ends and the ins and outs of everything thus far that's,
that's taking place with the conversations. You hope that, you know,
both sides can come together and get it figured out,
(22:15):
which I think ultimately they, they, they wind up doing that.
And I think they will, um, you know, my biggest
hope is that we don't, we don't have a lockout. Um,
you know, and if it, and if we do that,
it doesn't spill over into the season. So, I think
that everybody's going to work hard. They've got the right
people in place to be able to have those conversations
(22:36):
and just, you know, go in there with an open
mind and see what's what. There's going to be some
give and take, I believe, on both sides.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Jason and I were talking offline before you jumped on,
and I think you're the perfect person as an entrepreneur now,
an owner of businesses. Again, you're a family guy, so
you have a long-term perspective and love affair with the
game of baseball.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You want baseball to win.
Speaker 6 (23:03):
If you had to wear a McKenzie or a Bain
consultant hat, and you didn't play 100 years in Major
League Baseball, and you didn't own a team, with the
limited information that you have, because obviously we're not previewed
to everything, but Conceptually, you understand the basic issues. What
advice would you give both sides if you bring the
(23:24):
head of the union and Rob Manfred and Dan Halem?
What would be your advice to piece this thing together?
Speaker 5 (23:31):
I'd say, you know what? Let's settle it old school.
You guys both grab a bat. Let's see if you
can hit more home.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Runs.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
But, you know, that's a tough question.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Because there's so much on both sides and unless you
have the full scope of the picture, it's hard to
really kind of throw out any kind of advice on it.
So that's where it's just, you know, it's the question
is how deep is the rabbit hole?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
You know, so I don't like I say, I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Not really like in those conversations or have been in
those conversations. So to really try to speak on it
would be it doesn't really do a whole lot. But
I would just say for anybody, I think you got
to have the entire picture to be able to really
be able to weigh in on something like that.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
I mean, I guess the only question that I would ask,
I would ask this of both of you, because I
come at it from a fan's perspective and someone who
cares about the gaming and obviously, you know, is interested
in business. That's that's my the entirety of my knowledge here.
But I do know from having been and full disclosure, Ryan,
part of the while you're in Atlanta now, and I
(24:45):
love that as an Atlanta Braves fan, I had some
feelings about you and the Phillies over the years, the
NL East. But, you know, With Alex, with the Yankees,
with you, with the Phillies, with me as an Atlanta fan,
like we've had the benefit of being like among the haves,
as it were, you know, like teams that were like
investing heavily and willing to to sort of pay. I
(25:09):
guess I wonder, Alex, maybe you can answer this first
for me. How do you get sort of the haves
and the have-nots together on something? Because that seems to
be the core issue here, that you just have this
unbelievable disparity. You guys had the benefit of playing for well-resourced,
huge fan-based teams, but not everybody has that.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
So, Alex, I just don't know how baseball circles that square.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
I think if you just zoom out, right? And I'm
going to give it to you back, Jason, so don't
think you're going to escape this question. You're going to
answer the same question Ryan and I did. But I
was just saying, look, very basic. You have four major
leagues in the U.S., right? You have hockey, you have
the NFL, NBA, and MLB. Back in the day, call
it 40 years ago, 50 years ago, it's safe to
say baseball was number one, okay? That's no longer the
(25:57):
case today. How do you value these leagues? I think
there's three major metrics. Enterprise value, appreciation of these franchises.
I think you look at gross revenue, right, that teams
are making. And then you make salaries, right? And the
truth of it is, if you stack all four of
the leagues, baseball is below their number fourth by far
(26:18):
in every category. In salary, ironically, they don't have a
salary cap. In revenue, and obviously in enterprise values. And
you've seen what's happened to the NBA and NFL. So
I would say let's try to copy and paste the
best practices they have because we want all three things
too in baseball.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
We want enterprise values to go up more than 4%
a year.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
We'd rather be like 27% like hockey or 19% like
NBA or 19% like NFL year over year, not 5%.
So that's one for the owners. Number two, we want
revenues to go up. As revenues go up, guess what
it affects? It should affect salaries. And then the last
thing is you need to get those three things in
a line so your behavior can really be.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Affect– a win for everybody. I mean, I just, I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I think about it from the perspective again, and, and
I never, you know, the, the, I never played the game.
So I don't have the perspective you guys have as players.
And I, and I do understand where the players are
coming from. And, and Ryan, you alluded to this earlier.
A player's mindset is, if I make it to the show,
I'm going to get mine, right?
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Like, I'm going to make money.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
And even though, like, you know, Ryan, you and Alex
are unique insofar as, I mean, beyond unique insofar as, like,
your accomplishments off the field and your ambitions as investors
and businessmen.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Not all the players have that. Players need to make money.
I get that.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
I do think the players and this is, again, my
perspective are going to have to give something when it
comes to a salary floor, a salary cap in order to,
to Alex's point.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Grow the game.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
And I would imagine that's a hard conversation to have,
you know, because you do not want to say to
a player. Even theoretically, I'm going to ask you to
leave money on the table, quote unquote, for the greater
good of the game, because he's going to be like, no,
I want to get paid. Like, I mean, to me,
some of it just comes down purely to that. I
(28:16):
guess the other thing that I would sort of wonder
aloud with both of you guys as owners is. all
of the owners need to have the sort of ambition
that you guys have as owners. And Alex, I know
you've seen this in the NBA and the W when ownership,
who's really deeply invested in the growth of the game
(28:37):
overall is around the table and collectively working together that
grows the.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Game as well.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
So I don't know, like, I just, it, it bums
me out as a fan that it can't get closer
to this anyway.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
And the last thing before we beat this, you know,
like a dead horse, but five and a half years
is the average career of a major league baseball players.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Five and a half.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So then if you think- Five and a half, is
that right? That's the average. That's the average.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
So in many ways, Ryan and I are both anomalies here.
So then if you have a- Big time. If you
have a union that let's say supports 800 members, okay,
but yet 85% of the revenue is going to the
top 10, like Ryan and I. Are you really supporting
the union? Why not really take a more democratic approach
(29:28):
and make sure that those guys that play only five
and a half years get a little bit of a
payday and you pay them earlier? That way, if a
pedestrian player becomes a free agent or even a superstar
for that matter, if the Yankees if the Dodgers, if
the Red Sox already have a first baseman, then Ryan
Howard's out of luck. He's a free agent in the
wrong year versus other leagues where you can have Oklahoma
(29:49):
City in the NBA and you know, spend almost $ 700
million in three players in one off season. That's what
I would love the Marlins to be able to do
or the Royals. How we get there, there's a lot
smarter people to do that, but I know what the
end game should be.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
I think for players, it's like, how does the cap
benefit us? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You know, I think that's part of the question is
how does that benefit us? And I just remember, you know,
when we were playing, it was all we were ever
told was like a cap is bad. Like you don't
want that. And, but I don't, I don't ever really
recall anybody really explaining to me what the benefit was. So,
you know, again, I think they'll have all those conversations.
(30:26):
The players are going to have their wants. The league's
going to have their wants. And there's got to be
some give and take on both sides. So, again, it's
just hopefully, you know, you get all the information and
everybody's making the right informed choices for what's going to
be best for the game.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
This resembles, and Ryan and I have both been in
the room for over a decade, if not two decades
as members of the union, is that right now it's
like politics. The Democrats and the Republican, they all dug in.
They all have the right. They're not going to lose.
They're not listening to each other. So I think the
best practice could be, can you bring in a Warren Buffett,
a Jamie Dimon, some people that you really respect, a
(31:03):
Mary Erdos, and say, okay, here's the best business plan
for baseball.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Now you guys, here are three options. Here's your menu.
Go get them.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Because I do think that there's a lot lost in
translation right now because there's so much anger that goes
back to Marvin Miller.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
And to Ryan's point, we.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
Were taught as teenagers to die on that mark for
a salary cap.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
We will die on that. And that's the issue.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
No, Ryan, you said it perfect.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
I think that is such a, that's one of the
best points I've heard about this. And you really have
a knack for distilling it down because you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I mean, that is the.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Issue is that it is a pretty complicated issue has unfortunately,
I'm sort of turning it around. has become oversimplified, I think,
for the players and for the and for the owners. And,
you know, that that's too bad. I just and I
(32:04):
think you'd, you know, and we'll wrap here. But like, Ryan,
you also made a point that I think is super important,
which is there's a lot at stake here. Baseball is
thriving right now. You know, it's like I see my
my 20 something year old sons who Alex knows, like
they they're huge baseball fans, you know, and if they
if they can have the sort of experience in baseball
(32:25):
that they had with the Knicks and basketball and, you know,
really just having it come back to the center of
the culture. But if baseball disappears for a season, my God,
I mean, that's a, that's a disaster.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I think they'll get it figured out before that.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I think, I think, I think there'll be a season
next year and hope that there'll be a season next year.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
But I mean, again, you gotta go, it's the ugly
part of the game, ugly part of the business, the process.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
And, But, again, I think, you know, with what's going
on now and they're going to be having these conversations,
I think they'll get it figured out.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
All right.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well, optimism reigns. Ryan Howard, you're a great guy.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And we really appreciate you spending some time with us.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You know, it's funny. You're down in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
My most shining moments were actually very, very close to
where you're sitting right now at Buckhead Baseball back in
the day when I was– Playing there at Frankie Allen Park.
For those listening in Atlanta, they know what I'm talking about.
That was as far as I got in my baseball career.
I love it. In any case, Ryan, great to talk
to you. Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
Thanks, Alan. Thank you. Thanks, Rhino. Take care.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me, Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Stacey Wong. Our senior producer
is Anna Mazarakis. Original music by Blake Maples. Our booker
is Paige Keffer. Our executive producers are Amy Keene, Kelly LaFerriere,
and Ashley Zingaro. Our head of podcast is Cheryl Brumley.
(34:06):
Special thanks to Rachel Carnevale, Elena Sosangelis, and Nick Silva.
You can also watch this episode of The Deal on YouTube.
And subscribe to The Deal and leave us a review
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
It helps other people find the show. Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
News.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Welcome back to The Deal.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. Today, we've got a
great one. We love talking baseball, especially in season, especially
when there's so much.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Going on around the game.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Alex has said a number of times this is one
of the most pivotal years in the history of the sport,
certainly the modern history. We sat down with Ryan Howard. He,
of course, won a World Series, a National League, Most
Valuable Player. He spent his entire career with the Philadelphia Phillies.
I mean, that's saying something in its own right. And
since leaving baseball, Ryan has built an investment portfolio across
(00:45):
sports and entertainment. One of his most interesting companies is
called Batter Up. Think Topgolf for baseball. He's also got
a stake in a Liga MX team. That's the professional
soccer league down in Mexico. So we talk about that.
We talk a lot about baseball, the state of the
game heading into and amidst this really massive collective bargaining
(01:08):
agreement negotiation between the players and the league and the owners.
He had some thoughts and we know Alex always does too.
All right, coming up, Ryan Howard. Welcome back to The Deal.
(01:29):
I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Buckle up, folks. This is going to be a good one.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
We have been so excited to catch up with Ryan Howard,
of course, former Philadelphia Philly World Series champion. National League,
most valuable player. He has some things in common with
our beloved A-Rod here. Knows baseball better than anyone. And
I can't wait for you guys to chop it up
(01:53):
on that. Also, so much interesting stuff going on in
your business life, Ryan. And you're joining us from the ATL.
So even better.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Great to have you.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Hey, thank you guys so much for having me. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
All right, Alex, I'm going to start by asking you,
I'm going to do this a little bit different. You
tell me, because we've talked a little bit offline, tell
me about Ryan.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Tell me about Ryan in front of him.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, so Ryan is a few years younger than me,
as you can tell by his skin, and it's much
better than mine.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Smooth operator.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Now, Ryan is one of these guys that, You know,
even when you play against him, you can't help but
love him and respect him.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
He did everything the right way.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
He was always very respectful. In the World Series, we played, obviously,
some very high-leverage games against each other while we weren't
in the same league. We ultimately had the ultimate respect
for the Philadelphia Phillies. And then what he's been able
to do post-baseball, the way he's been able to transfer
to be an advisor to Rob Manford, to being involved
with the union... to doing his podcasting with my boy
(02:55):
Rollins and the way he conducts himself with his family.
It's really the epitome. of what you want a major
league baseball player. And if I was a kid like Lombard,
I would say, look at Ryan Howard as a role model.
Look at Derek Jeter, look at Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettit
to put them in the names that I feel that
he belongs in that pedestal.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, and Ryan, it's interesting too, because you know, there are,
there are some shades of, of my partner here in
what you've done from the, from the business side. So
let's jump into it. You've got some ownership. I think
we're especially interested in, in batter up. So talk to
us about that deal because it, I'm so taken with
it and it feels like so of the moment in
(03:36):
the best possible way.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So first let me, let me echo one thing on,
on Alex and, and give him his flowers as well.
It was always fun being able to watch him do
what he did. This is the smooth operator. I was
a little clunky on defense. He was a little smoother
than I was over there, you know, with the glove
at short and third, but I think with what he
was able to do hitting wise, being able to change,
(04:02):
change the flow. And as you mentioned, yeah, he did.
They took that World Series in 09. So, you know,
you got to give props where props is due. But
he did mention one thing where he's talking about, you know,
George Lombard. And I think for Alex and myself, the
difference was when we played, the mindset was you were
earning your check.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
That was it. That was supposed to be your end all.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Where in today's environment, it's like baseball is the springboard
to the next game.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And so that's the way I've kind of looked at
it from transitioning from baseball. And if I could go
back and tell my 25 year old self that I
would have been start sooner, start way sooner.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
And, you know, I think where.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You kind of get closer to the end of the
career and you start trying to see, you know, what
is it that I really want to do?
Speaker 5 (04:53):
There's some things here I'm very interested in.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And when you make that transition, I wish I would
have been able to start it earlier. And I think
this crop of players now with what we have in
social media, everybody, number one, is their own brand. And
they're able to capitalize on that as well now more
so than I think what we were really able to.
(05:18):
So there's so many more, I think, opportunities for players
now and just athletes, entertainers to start looking postseason. career
for athletes and then just continuing to build if you're
an entertainer, because as long as you got a voice
or you can act or whatever, you may still be
able to find a job. So but jumping into batter up,
(05:41):
you know, batter up for me, the fun part was
was being able to hit home runs on the field.
And now it's kind of like being able to try
to provide that opportunity to everybody else. So what we
kind of liken it to is the top golf of baseball,
(06:01):
where it's an open-aired concept, where we have the pitching machines,
you have the entertainment, if you will. And thus far,
I mean, it's been great. We're putting it together, looking
at trying to go and now raise into a Series
A team. and provide a great experience for fans where
(06:22):
it's not your normal batting cage. It's where you can come,
you can see kind of the live pitching with the
live pitching type pitching machines and get that experience. So
everybody who's out there talking trash about guys going up
there missing and swinging and all that kind of stuff,
you get to experience what it's like.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
So, Ryan, I like where you started there. It sounds
like a wonderful concept. I guess if you don't mind
playing along here, we'll play a little Shark Tank. So
inside 45 seconds, you mentioned you're raising some capital, Series A.
Tell us, if you don't mind, whatever you can disclose.
What's the enterprise value coming in, kind of pre and post?
(07:05):
And how much are you looking to raise? And then
what would you do with those funds?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So right now it's still a very early concept. So
we're looking to raise the Series A, so about $ 15,
$ 16 million. We're looking in Phoenix as the first location.
The concept is going to be about 15.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
To 20 bays.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
There's an upstairs deck with that little kind of party deck,
if you will. And basically right now, that's where we are.
We're looking at kind of raising that $ 15 million. And
that money will go into obviously getting the property as
well as starting the construction on the first batter up.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
And so how does a deal like this come to you, Ryan?
Or is this a concept that you developed? Like, what's
the genesis here?
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So, I mean, obviously, it's just through different networks, through
different networks of people. It was funny where when it
came to me, it came to me through a.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Friend of mine, Mike Fonseca.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And I was actually the universe has crazy ways of working.
And so I was actually thinking about something along those lines.
And then Mike hit me up and he's like, hey,
there's these two brothers, Matt Bell and Greg Bell. that
have this concept that's kind of like the baseball version
(08:21):
of Topgolf. And I was like, man, your ears must
be ringing. The universe is ringing something. And I've talked
to those guys, went over it, love the concept, love
what it was about.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
And, you know, love, love the people more.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So I love the people and I love the concept
and wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Interesting.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Interesting.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
I like how you said if Ryan Howard today at
46 would give advice to Ryan Howard at 25, would
I like you to help me understand and our audience
is take us inside. If you can give us a
little x-rays to what's going on in your brain when
you're 25, 30, as far as strategy, what were your
goals and what did you think as a role model
for me? That was magic Johnson. I thought he had
(09:04):
a blueprint to what I wanted to do. Therefore I
went to him and met for him with three and
a half hours. And he gave me the most incredible
advice where I still have nine pages of notes and
So that was kind of my roadmap.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
What was yours?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny because at that age, 23, 24, 25,
you're just thinking about getting to the big leagues.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
You know, it's a lot different.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Today, than where it was when we were playing to
where you had to have your stuff sewed up, you know, everything,
your game had to be on point or whatnot. Are
you going back down to AAA? My situation was a
little bit different. I came up 24, 25-ish.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
I had Jim Tomey. In front of me at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
So for me, the focus was getting up to the
big leagues and didn't necessarily have the foresight right then.
Because again, my mindset at that time was like, OK,
my money is going to be made here in the
big leagues.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Get that long term deal and, you know, you'll be
you'll be good.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
But as we know, things change, the environment change, the
game changes and social media, everything comes up. Your brand
is now your brand. Your brand used to just be, hey,
let me go out here and endorse you. you know,
this company or that company. Now it's you are a
brand to where, yes, you can go and endorse that
(10:26):
company or you can say, hey, you know what? My brand,
my personal brand is so big. Give me equity in
that company instead.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
I'd rather have that.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So it was more so along those lines that later
on in my career, looking at that was what kind
of started to change that mindset to where I wish
I would have been able to get turned on to
that earlier in my career to kind of start planning
(10:54):
post-career like that.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And so, Ryan, you touched on something that I think
is probably at the heart of so many of these
conversations that we have, and Alex obviously embodies it in
a big way, as do you, which is this notion
of endorsement versus ownership and.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
The equity piece.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
And I would love for you to talk to us
about your investment in Liga MX in I'm going to
try this.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Querétaro Gallos Blancos.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Did I get it?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Querétaro.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Thank you. Okay, good.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I mean, we're coming off the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Obviously, people are so into soccer, football, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
How does that deal get to you?
Speaker 4 (11:33):
And tell us about the mechanics and how you approach it.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Yeah, I mean, again, it's just through networks.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
It's actually with the– I feel Capital and Mark Spiegel,
it's funny because I know Mark, who helps lead that group.
our kids are in the same school. So it kind
of came, it came, you know, pretty, pretty quick with me.
(12:01):
And I've always loved soccer. I grew up playing soccer,
always enjoyed it. I enjoy watching the English premier league.
So I was, I was in my element loving watching
the world cup this past, past summer. And so he
brought the idea to me and it just made so
much sense with the The World Cup coming up, I
was like, oh, in Mexico, the United States and Canada,
(12:25):
just a bigger overall play because.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Mexican League is is is growing.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I think soccer here in North America, especially now after
World Cup, is continuing to grow. And the deal was
just too good to pass up. So I said, hey, man,
I'd love to be in it. And that's how I
came to be.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
So Ryan, walk us through how you think about deal flow,
you know, like capital allocation. How do you think about
deploying capital? You mentioned sometimes you can invest, sometimes you
can get equity. Maybe there's a little bit of a
hybrid where you can earn it over time with your
sweat equity.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
What do you look for in deals and what gets
you excited?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind
is obviously the person. I like to look at Obviously,
having played baseball and using a lot of the baseball,
you'll get a lot of the baseball terminology from me
because I see what we learned from playing baseball, the
work ethic, the patience that you have to have, the preparation,
(13:40):
everything that goes into that, right?
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Obviously, studying the term sheets.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
But the first thing that you do is you meet
the person and you try to learn their story, try
to get to understand their story.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Alex, you know what it was like.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
You know the work that you put in behind the scenes,
the blood, sweat, tears, all the stuff that the people
didn't see. Because what did they see? They saw the
finished product. They saw Alex Rodriguez on the field doing
his thing. And so you get to peek behind the
curtain and first get to learn about the founder. That's
(14:14):
first and foremost. And I've got to feel good about that.
The concept is the concept. And it's looking at something
that's okay.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
One thing.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Either a huge disruptor or two, something that's more like
organic to me to where it's like, okay, I really
enjoy that. Or that's something that I would do on
the regular. So, I mean, a lot of different things
with sports, with batter up, those.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Types of things I like to look.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Into and then dive into the numbers and see, okay,
How do we disrupt?
Speaker 5 (14:48):
How do we turn this around? Ultimately, at the end
of the day, how do we make money? There you go.
How do we make money?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I mean, it's as cut and dry. I had a
great dear friend of mine, Steve Korman. He said, Ryan,
I'm going to give it to you short and sweet.
He's in real estate. And he said, look, they can
throw all these sheets in front of you and all
this other stuff in front of you. But at the
end of the day, how much is coming in? How
(15:17):
much is going out? So when you can get it
to make sense, then it makes sense.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Love that.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I have to say, it's so funny that you say
that because one of the best questions Alex Rodriguez has
ever asked on this show, and I'll leave it to
the audience to go back and find this if they want,
was very simply to a guest on the show, so
explain to me how you make money because it wasn't obvious.
And that's the thing is that like so many times
(15:46):
you just got to get, you got to keep it
a bean and get it down to get it down
to that question.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, at the end of the day, that's what we're,
that's what we're sitting in the meeting for. That's what
you're getting pitched for. So it's ultimately, okay. The concept,
I understand the concept.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Got it. Got it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
But all right. So how do we make money in
certain things? You're, you're looking at it from the roundabout way.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Okay. So when and how do we make money?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So it's, You know, you understand that there's two sides
of the coin. Just like with baseball, you can do
everything right. You can do all the due diligence in
the world and everything looks good. Same way we can
go in the cage before a game, take batting practice,
hit off the tee, do all this stuff, watch film,
do whatever we need to do. And still go out
(16:31):
there and go over for it. So you got to
have a little bit of luck as well with it,
but also understand, okay, I've got to stick with it.
And the other thing is to perseverance, perseverance, because I
tell people a lot with baseball. And again, sorry for
all the baseball references, but I used to say baseball
was a game of failure, but I flipped it and
(16:55):
it's more of a game of perseverance because it's the
only sport you can play and fail consistently. 70% of
the time and still be considered successful. I look at
that in business at times as well, because you can
have multiple businesses that you invest in. Some of them
don't work, but you get that one or two that
hit a home run. Those other ones that didn't work
(17:17):
don't matter.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah. Listen, no apologies for the baseball references.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
We're going to talk a lot of baseball as we
go on.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
And I think you, I believe the technical term for
Alex as it relates to baseball is he's a baseball sicko.
So you never have to apologize on this show for
talking too much baseball.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And to that end, talk to us about Philly. I mean,
and playing there.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
You know, it's just down the road from us in
New York.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
My son actually went to college just outside of Philadelphia
at Swarthmore College.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I spent a lot of time down there.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
And it's a sports town like no other, as our
friend LeBron James is about to find out. So from
your perspective, help us understand that because the business of
Philadelphia sports must have been fascinating to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And you must have taken something away from that.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I mean, first off, it's a blue collar town, obviously
from the sports standpoint, and they're going to keep you honest.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Um, they want a blue collar effort every single day.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And as long as you can go out there and
go give them that, then, you know, they'll, they'll stay
off you for, for the most part.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
But, um, But the thing is, too, in terms of
learning about the business aspect in Philadelphia, it's again, it
is it's the people. It's being able to interact with
the people, being able to talk to the people and
ask them what it is that they like in in
different things. So, you know, if it's whatever it is
(18:50):
from the business standpoint. So if it's like if I'm
doing batter up in Philadelphia, hey, what can we do better?
What would you like to see giving them that input?
Because they love to have input. They love, they're going
to tell you one way or the other. So you
might as well, you know, make them, make them feel
a part of it. And so I think that is
very big too, is being able to go to the
(19:10):
consumer and have those conversations and take that constructive criticism.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I mean, Alex Philly, it's, it's done like any, but
like it, you, You played in a lot of different ballparks,
and those fans, I have to say, I have to think,
they're tough, right?
Speaker 6 (19:28):
I mean, I think Ryan would echo what I have
to say about the Philly fans. I think he would
say about the Yankee fans. It's number one, blue collar.
They want an honest day's work. I love DiMaggio's famous
quote where he said, you know, there's a family out
there saved all their money, and they may just move
to one game.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And I want to play. I want to play hard.
I want to play well.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
And I think that's the way— that ryan and ike
you know went about it and remember the generation before
was larry boy and buddy bell and you know pete
rose and guys that just got after it and that
was the role model like you it wasn't an option
to run to first you ran your butt to first
base and But from the fan base, ultimate respect, incredible wisdom.
(20:09):
You got a guy on second. You hit a ground
about a second. You got a standing ovation.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
St.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Louis does that. Cubs fans do that. Red Sox.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
I mean, there's a lot of great fan bases, but
the elite fan base, I really do believe they live
in the Northeast. Three of my friends got arrested in
two games in the World Series, but not real jail.
In Philly's jail at that stadium. And I said, what
were you doing? They said, we were like, you know,
waving our beads for good luck. And they said, you
guys are going into jail.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I'm like, wait, wait.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I mean, Philly's sports jail. I don't doubt it. Philly's
sports jail is like, what a metaphor.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So, Ryan, as we talk more about baseball, Alex has
said on this show and he said it online, offline,
probably on social media, probably on Fox. This year for
baseball is among the most important that we've seen in
a long time.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
As Alex mentioned at the.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Top, you have a lot of great perspective on how
the mechanics of this all works.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
This CBA is critical. What's your take at.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
This moment on kind of where we are and where
we need to get to as it relates to this negotiation?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
My personal take on the whole thing is this. I
think the game is back close for me. is back
close to a place of where it was in 94
before the strike took place in 94. You look at
(21:54):
the World Series we just had. You look at the
World Baseball Classic we just had. The excitement for baseball
is back. Um, I don't know that the odds and
ends and the ins and outs of everything thus far that's,
that's taking place with the conversations. You hope that, you know,
both sides can come together and get it figured out,
(22:15):
which I think ultimately they, they, they wind up doing that.
And I think they will, um, you know, my biggest
hope is that we don't, we don't have a lockout. Um,
you know, and if it, and if we do that,
it doesn't spill over into the season. So, I think
that everybody's going to work hard. They've got the right
people in place to be able to have those conversations
(22:36):
and just, you know, go in there with an open
mind and see what's what. There's going to be some
give and take, I believe, on both sides.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Jason and I were talking offline before you jumped on,
and I think you're the perfect person as an entrepreneur now,
an owner of businesses. Again, you're a family guy, so
you have a long-term perspective and love affair with the
game of baseball.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You want baseball to win.
Speaker 6 (23:03):
If you had to wear a McKenzie or a Bain
consultant hat, and you didn't play 100 years in Major
League Baseball, and you didn't own a team, with the
limited information that you have, because obviously we're not previewed
to everything, but Conceptually, you understand the basic issues. What
advice would you give both sides if you bring the
(23:24):
head of the union and Rob Manfred and Dan Halem?
What would be your advice to piece this thing together?
Speaker 5 (23:31):
I'd say, you know what? Let's settle it old school.
You guys both grab a bat. Let's see if you
can hit more home.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Runs.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
But, you know, that's a tough question.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Because there's so much on both sides and unless you
have the full scope of the picture, it's hard to
really kind of throw out any kind of advice on it.
So that's where it's just, you know, it's the question
is how deep is the rabbit hole?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
You know, so I don't like I say, I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Not really like in those conversations or have been in
those conversations. So to really try to speak on it
would be it doesn't really do a whole lot. But
I would just say for anybody, I think you got
to have the entire picture to be able to really
be able to weigh in on something like that.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
I mean, I guess the only question that I would ask,
I would ask this of both of you, because I
come at it from a fan's perspective and someone who
cares about the gaming and obviously, you know, is interested
in business. That's that's my the entirety of my knowledge here.
But I do know from having been and full disclosure, Ryan,
part of the while you're in Atlanta now, and I
(24:45):
love that as an Atlanta Braves fan, I had some
feelings about you and the Phillies over the years, the
NL East. But, you know, With Alex, with the Yankees,
with you, with the Phillies, with me as an Atlanta fan,
like we've had the benefit of being like among the haves,
as it were, you know, like teams that were like
investing heavily and willing to to sort of pay. I
(25:09):
guess I wonder, Alex, maybe you can answer this first
for me. How do you get sort of the haves
and the have-nots together on something? Because that seems to
be the core issue here, that you just have this
unbelievable disparity. You guys had the benefit of playing for well-resourced,
huge fan-based teams, but not everybody has that.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
So, Alex, I just don't know how baseball circles that square.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
I think if you just zoom out, right? And I'm
going to give it to you back, Jason, so don't
think you're going to escape this question. You're going to
answer the same question Ryan and I did. But I
was just saying, look, very basic. You have four major
leagues in the U.S., right? You have hockey, you have
the NFL, NBA, and MLB. Back in the day, call
it 40 years ago, 50 years ago, it's safe to
say baseball was number one, okay? That's no longer the
(25:57):
case today. How do you value these leagues? I think
there's three major metrics. Enterprise value, appreciation of these franchises.
I think you look at gross revenue, right, that teams
are making. And then you make salaries, right? And the
truth of it is, if you stack all four of
the leagues, baseball is below their number fourth by far
(26:18):
in every category. In salary, ironically, they don't have a
salary cap. In revenue, and obviously in enterprise values. And
you've seen what's happened to the NBA and NFL. So
I would say let's try to copy and paste the
best practices they have because we want all three things
too in baseball.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
We want enterprise values to go up more than 4%
a year.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
We'd rather be like 27% like hockey or 19% like
NBA or 19% like NFL year over year, not 5%.
So that's one for the owners. Number two, we want
revenues to go up. As revenues go up, guess what
it affects? It should affect salaries. And then the last
thing is you need to get those three things in
a line so your behavior can really be.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Affect– a win for everybody. I mean, I just, I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I think about it from the perspective again, and, and
I never, you know, the, the, I never played the game.
So I don't have the perspective you guys have as players.
And I, and I do understand where the players are
coming from. And, and Ryan, you alluded to this earlier.
A player's mindset is, if I make it to the show,
I'm going to get mine, right?
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Like, I'm going to make money.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
And even though, like, you know, Ryan, you and Alex
are unique insofar as, I mean, beyond unique insofar as, like,
your accomplishments off the field and your ambitions as investors
and businessmen.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Not all the players have that. Players need to make money.
I get that.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
I do think the players and this is, again, my
perspective are going to have to give something when it
comes to a salary floor, a salary cap in order to,
to Alex's point.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Grow the game.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
And I would imagine that's a hard conversation to have,
you know, because you do not want to say to
a player. Even theoretically, I'm going to ask you to
leave money on the table, quote unquote, for the greater
good of the game, because he's going to be like, no,
I want to get paid. Like, I mean, to me,
some of it just comes down purely to that. I
(28:16):
guess the other thing that I would sort of wonder
aloud with both of you guys as owners is. all
of the owners need to have the sort of ambition
that you guys have as owners. And Alex, I know
you've seen this in the NBA and the W when ownership,
who's really deeply invested in the growth of the game
(28:37):
overall is around the table and collectively working together that
grows the.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Game as well.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
So I don't know, like, I just, it, it bums
me out as a fan that it can't get closer
to this anyway.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
And the last thing before we beat this, you know,
like a dead horse, but five and a half years
is the average career of a major league baseball players.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Five and a half.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So then if you think- Five and a half, is
that right? That's the average. That's the average.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
So in many ways, Ryan and I are both anomalies here.
So then if you have a- Big time. If you
have a union that let's say supports 800 members, okay,
but yet 85% of the revenue is going to the
top 10, like Ryan and I. Are you really supporting
the union? Why not really take a more democratic approach
(29:28):
and make sure that those guys that play only five
and a half years get a little bit of a
payday and you pay them earlier? That way, if a
pedestrian player becomes a free agent or even a superstar
for that matter, if the Yankees if the Dodgers, if
the Red Sox already have a first baseman, then Ryan
Howard's out of luck. He's a free agent in the
wrong year versus other leagues where you can have Oklahoma
(29:49):
City in the NBA and you know, spend almost $ 700
million in three players in one off season. That's what
I would love the Marlins to be able to do
or the Royals. How we get there, there's a lot
smarter people to do that, but I know what the
end game should be.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
I think for players, it's like, how does the cap
benefit us? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You know, I think that's part of the question is
how does that benefit us? And I just remember, you know,
when we were playing, it was all we were ever
told was like a cap is bad. Like you don't
want that. And, but I don't, I don't ever really
recall anybody really explaining to me what the benefit was. So,
you know, again, I think they'll have all those conversations.
(30:26):
The players are going to have their wants. The league's
going to have their wants. And there's got to be
some give and take on both sides. So, again, it's
just hopefully, you know, you get all the information and
everybody's making the right informed choices for what's going to
be best for the game.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
This resembles, and Ryan and I have both been in
the room for over a decade, if not two decades
as members of the union, is that right now it's
like politics. The Democrats and the Republican, they all dug in.
They all have the right. They're not going to lose.
They're not listening to each other. So I think the
best practice could be, can you bring in a Warren Buffett,
a Jamie Dimon, some people that you really respect, a
(31:03):
Mary Erdos, and say, okay, here's the best business plan
for baseball.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Now you guys, here are three options. Here's your menu.
Go get them.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Because I do think that there's a lot lost in
translation right now because there's so much anger that goes
back to Marvin Miller.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
And to Ryan's point, we.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
Were taught as teenagers to die on that mark for
a salary cap.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
We will die on that. And that's the issue.
Speaker 5 (31:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
No, Ryan, you said it perfect.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
I think that is such a, that's one of the
best points I've heard about this. And you really have
a knack for distilling it down because you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I mean, that is the.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Issue is that it is a pretty complicated issue has unfortunately,
I'm sort of turning it around. has become oversimplified, I think,
for the players and for the and for the owners. And,
you know, that that's too bad. I just and I
(32:04):
think you'd, you know, and we'll wrap here. But like, Ryan,
you also made a point that I think is super important,
which is there's a lot at stake here. Baseball is
thriving right now. You know, it's like I see my
my 20 something year old sons who Alex knows, like
they they're huge baseball fans, you know, and if they
if they can have the sort of experience in baseball
(32:25):
that they had with the Knicks and basketball and, you know,
really just having it come back to the center of
the culture. But if baseball disappears for a season, my God,
I mean, that's a, that's a disaster.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I think they'll get it figured out before that.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I think, I think, I think there'll be a season
next year and hope that there'll be a season next year.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
But I mean, again, you gotta go, it's the ugly
part of the game, ugly part of the business, the process.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
And, But, again, I think, you know, with what's going
on now and they're going to be having these conversations,
I think they'll get it figured out.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
All right.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well, optimism reigns. Ryan Howard, you're a great guy.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And we really appreciate you spending some time with us.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You know, it's funny. You're down in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
My most shining moments were actually very, very close to
where you're sitting right now at Buckhead Baseball back in
the day when I was– Playing there at Frankie Allen Park.
For those listening in Atlanta, they know what I'm talking about.
That was as far as I got in my baseball career.
I love it. In any case, Ryan, great to talk
to you. Thank you so much for the time.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
Thanks, Alan. Thank you. Thanks, Rhino. Take care.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me, Jason Kelly.
This show was produced by Stacey Wong. Our senior producer
is Anna Mazarakis. Original music by Blake Maples. Our booker
is Paige Keffer. Our executive producers are Amy Keene, Kelly LaFerriere,
and Ashley Zingaro. Our head of podcast is Cheryl Brumley.
(34:06):
Special thanks to Rachel Carnevale, Elena Sosangelis, and Nick Silva.
You can also watch this episode of The Deal on YouTube.
And subscribe to The Deal and leave us a review
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
It helps other people find the show. Thanks for listening.
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