July 23, 2026 • 49 mins
The 2026 World Cup is done and the numbers are astounding. FIFA reportedly expects to bring in $15 billion in revenue, blowing past their original projection of $12 billion. This number isn’t surprising considering that almost 7 million people attended the tournament’s 104 games and 60 million people in North America tuned into Sunday’s final.
In this episode of The Deal, we dig into the stories beyond these record-smashing numbers. First up, Jason talks to Fox Soccer broadcaster Melissa Ortiz about how this World Cup compared to the others she has covered as a broadcaster and played in as a member of the Colombian national team. She also explains what made the officiating so frustrating and why she is already looking forward to next summer’s women’s World Cup.
Next, Jason is joined by Bloomberg News sports reporter and Business of Sports co-host Vanessa Perdomo about what makes this World Cup such an incredible business story and why FIFA will likely be eager to host another major tournament in the U.S. She also gives her take on how the World Cup’s momentum will impact the MLS and predicts the future of hydration breaks.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Deal.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm Jason Kelly alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. All Right,
we're talking World Cup and you know, leave it to you,
my brother, to you know, just be like casually at
the World Cup final flipping the coin.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's like, what is going on?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm like watching it on TV and you know there
you are doing your thing. So my man on the ground,
my you know, eyes, eyes and ears.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What was it like? What was the experience like?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
First of all, the experience was unbelievable. It was like
Super Bowl like but like times ten. Yeah, because you
realize the gravity of an event. I've never been to
an American event in New York City right where the
Giants and Jets play their home games.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
And I'm walking around and like like.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
No one speaks English, right, and everyone's from Argentina or Spain.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
But they're like I saw people in tears. I saw
people crying.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I saw that you feel when you're an event, the
gravity of the recourse if the other team loses. Yeah,
and sometimes that's more that jumps off the page, more
than the excitement of people being there. So it felt
really big. I've been in many World Series finals, Super Bowls.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
This was like nothing I've ever seen before.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Really, I mean that's saying something because again, like you
you've literally like won a World Series. All right, So
so let me ask you this because you you know,
you live most of the time in Miami. Miami obviously
was like a key epicenter of this World Cup. You've
watched the messy effect over the past few years. You know,
(01:48):
put on your you know, you're Alex Rodriguez, investor, businessman hat, Like,
what does this make you think about the business of
soccer going forward?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Well, first of all, you have the perfect storm.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I had one of the Fox executives, who, by the way,
are over the moon thrilled. They paid seven hundred and
fifty million dollars for these rights, and that's a fraction
of what they pay the NFL, a fraction of what
MLB Baseball gets, you know, over those four years. And
yet the numbers, as you know, were unbelievable. I know,
we'll get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, sixty two point eight million just in the US
between English and Spanish broadcasts.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I mean, that is unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
And if you don't believe that, there's a great saying,
and this is a deal a business show. Numbers don't
lie in Just in twenty twenty two, the World Cup
top line revenue was somewhere around seven and a half billion,
and this year jumped to fifteen billion.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
And are those the numbers you have yet?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean more.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Up than one hundred percent in four years is remarkable. Yeah,
and if something really that's not sustainable. The viewership was
up one hundred and thirty two percent in the final game,
and the average game averaged around eight million people seven
and a half million people. So it was an absolute
whopper of a success for Fox and for.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Kids like you know, you have a young daughter, Jason.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I think for that generation of kids, we're gonna look
back in thirty years and say this is the moment, yeah,
of why so many young kids full in love with
the game.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Yeah, I think there's a real movement here in America.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
And coming up later, I'm going to talk with Melissa Ortiz,
who was one of your colleagues at Fox and was
covering a bunch of the games, a former player herself,
as well as Vanessa Perdomo, my colleague here at Bloomberg
our colleague here at Bloomberg who she hears out. She
played college soccer and now covers the business of sports.
And she was at the final in lesser seats than you,
(03:40):
but you know, everyone was.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Everyone was.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
But no, you're right, I mean and I mean the
other number that I'll throw at you, because we do
love numbers.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Here.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Total attendance was six point eight million, most attended World
Cup in history. One of the really interesting things about that,
so that's, by the way, that's more than the last
two World Cups combined. Now, part of it is there
were one hundred and four matches, but the second most
attended World Cup is nineteen ninety four. United States, so
(04:12):
part of its big stadiums. But this is why Johnny Infantino,
the president of FIFA, did everything he could to make
sure that this World Cup was in the United States,
because you know, this from being a very, very high
profile and successful American athlete. Sports in the United States
hits different. You know, I'm sure you know you got
(04:35):
to see all the benefits of that. Being in what's
normally known as MetLife Stadium was known as New York
New Jersey Stadium for the benefit of the World Cup.
But you know Americans they do sports a little bit differently.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
They do and you know, you've often heard me say
what I learned from my longtime mentor and TV that
you need the three s's, you need glor superstars. You
have that, you have strategy, and you have great storylines.
But you know, I was talking to my Fox executive
and I always like talking with Jimmy Petero at ESPN
or Eric Shanks at Fox. I would say, hey, boss,
(05:11):
what what is that ideal match for the finals? And
you know there was this famous line with David Stern
back in the day where he would say, you know,
the Lakers versus the Lakers.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Yes, you know, this isn't.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Quite so specific. This is more like the four brackets.
You have Yankee Dodgers Yankee.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Dodgers, so we can't lose. And then of course you
get you know, Spain or Argentina.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So it was an absolute whopper of a finals. But
for the Fox executives and from a revenue point of view,
you had all the tailwinds between the United States, the
two teams, the final four, the numbers, and.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Like you said, you just got to put.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Almost like a twenty five percent tax in revenue in America,
maybe fifty percent in this case was one hundred percent
growth from last time. So America is the biggest, the
best end if you're American. Got to say, where are
when the landscape of soccer? Yeah, America does not like
to be you know, top ten, They.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Like to be one.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, Well, and it'll be interesting to see, you know,
whether this changes the the complexion of investment in the MLS.
This is not the NFL, this is not most of
the NBA. This is a whole different sort of thing.
All right, Well, thank you for you know, doing your reporting.
(06:27):
It's a hard job that you have, you know, I
mean that I hope you practice flipping the coin.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Did you feel like it was a good flip?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Well, it was because I didn't flip it.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
The kid from the Boys and Girls Club reached it.
So I'm a Boys and Girls Club alum. Yeah, And
I've sat on the board for over twenty years and
it was one of those things, Jason that when I
got the call in January, and it was around my
birthday because my birthday is July twenty seventh, I was like,
this is just not going to age. Well, like that's
my time when I go away with my kids and
(06:59):
my family, and it started aging really well.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
And then a couple of months ago, I'm seeing the excitement.
I'm going, actually, this is actually really really.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
You're like this World Cup thing. People are super into this.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
All right, Well, get back to your life in the
Hamptons and you know you're grinding out there and we
you know, we're all here for it. Happy early birthday,
and you know now that you're on the other side
of fifty, it doesn't really matter. You know, last year
was your fiftieth. Now it's just like he's in his fifties. Sorry,
all down home. I'm right there with you, and it's
like the birthdays are just boring, and you know, until
(07:33):
we turned sixty, all right, see a partner, see you.
Welcome back to the deal, Melissa Ortiz. Really good to
(07:54):
have you with me. I have so many questions for
you about essentially what we just so you know this
is this is not.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Your first rodeo.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You have you've played the sport, You've covered the last
three World Cups. As you sort of distill it down
and digest it, like what's your top line takeaway?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well, first and foremost, thank you for having me super
excited to chat and especially chat.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
About World Cup.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I think my top line takeaway of this World Cup,
compared to either World Cups being in them as a broadcaster,
having at ten of them as a fan, or as
a player at a youth World Cup, I think this
one was just like a whole beast in itself, like
so many different different ways and aspects, from the expanded
format of how many teams competed in the in the
(08:42):
tournament to how many games were played one hundred and
four games were played. There was thirty nine days over
sixteen cities. In my role as a broadcaster, you know,
usually we'll stay in one city and then maybe pop
on and flyover to some other ones, and it's not
as crazy as a track, but since the US and
especially being over three countries, it's such a large country
(09:05):
with different time zones, it just made it even I
want to even say, more challenging, but I'd say at
the end of it all, even more rewarding. After hitting
so many accomplishments, especially on Fox, we reached over eleven
billion views, which is wild. Our goal going into the
(09:25):
tournament was to reach I think over three billion, and
I even told like our producers and our executives. I said,
you know, I have a feeling we're going to crush
that number because soccer compared to say, let's say the
Olympics and other sports, it's just soccer is the most
popular sport in the world. I think we're going to
crush this quickly. One weekend we already hit that number.
(09:48):
So when I say my main takeaway, it's just it
was a beast in itself. But then also my main
takeaway was that I absolutely love of the fact that
this that the USA was able to experience what soccer
is all about, right, And it's not just about the
ninety minutes on the pitch. It was about the fans
(10:09):
coming in and we saw the Norwegians and the Rose
you know, we saw the Scots and them just turning
you know, Boston into into Scotland.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So I think just the cultural impact, the soccer impact,
and hopefully the impact for the growth of the game here.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
In this country.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For me, it was an incredible experience and I'm I'm
going maybe I'll probably go to go through that like
post of playing days of like withdrawals, right, because it
was just always on a high every day, it was.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
It was incredible.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, And so what was your favorite storyline of this cup? Like,
what was the one that that you were most interested
sort of to cover, especially one that maybe because I
know I know you as a journalist like learning you
prepare so well, what what were the things that stood
out to you that you were especially excited in retrospect
(11:03):
to dig into.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
I got to and the first one is Cape is
Cape Verd?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Like that for me, that that storyline in itself a
country of a population of five hundred thousand people players
on the team that Yeah, there are some that you know,
of course played Division one in the prospective clubs countries,
but just came totally out of out of the blue,
out of the woodwork.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
When when FIFA announced that they were going to expand
this type of format, there was a lot of pushback
and I'm I'm going to be honest, like, even for myself,
I'm thinking, man, there's going to be some blowouts, like
how can you even compare in Argentina against the Cape Verd. Well,
you fast forward time and Argentina plays against Cape Verd
and all of a sudden it's tied and they're going
into extra time, and I was at that game. I
(11:51):
was at that stadium and when I saw that goal
scored by Lopez carral and it was just a banger,
top right corner, insane golf, It's wild. But when I
was living in that in that in that moment, you know,
the Argentine fans are by far more of the best.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Fan bases in the world because they're so loud.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
They chant the whole time, they're so passionate, and there's
not many times where there's a quiet moment in the
stadium because they just keep singing and jumping and all that.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
And there were there was two moments.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
In that stadium in Miami, which you know, it's a
it's a bit tighter, so you really do hear everything.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
And one of the moments was, of.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Course, when it went one one, and the other moment
was when Cape verd tied for two two, And I
kid you not, this stadium was quiet, and you look
around and you just see every fan are to tie
Arspotaian fan because there's only a small pack of Cape
Verdians up up there, and everybody's just like this, and uh,
(12:56):
it was a moment of silence that I had never
seen before. Like that in that sense, and I was
just like, wow, this is crazy. And then there was
another beautiful moment and that was just two minutes after
when the ball gets kicked off by Argentina, and then
that just made the Argentine fans just get louder and
louder with their chance.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Just loud a whole other level.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So it was like, I say this, and it was
like we're living a real life novella. It was just
like drama and the antics and just I don't know,
it was so many curves and it was amazing and it's.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Why we love it. I mean, it's why we love sports, right.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I mean, it's like you just don't know, I will
say as a viewer, and I watched a lot watch
a lot of the Fox coverage. I thought one of
the most brilliant aspects of it were the fan reaction shots,
like the slow mode fan reaction shots. I mean, because
it's like you like, to me, that actually helps you
(13:57):
understand the game as much as watching the game is
like watching the fans, like watching the way they act,
the way they react the you know, like just a
barely missshot and just like the agony on someone's face
and it was like I can like see them in
my mind now, like these shots where it's like, oh,
(14:20):
you know, it's just incredible. So I mean, kudos to
the team at Fox for that, because I did feel
like it's like the cultural piece of this cannot go
sort of unremarked upon or unexamined, right, I mean it's
like and I do think that that was one thing
that we all felt was, yeah, we're all in this,
like we are in it. We've talked a lot about,
(14:42):
you know, what was going on in the stands and
off the pitch, and but you obviously follow very closely
what's happening on the pitch. What was different about this
one either from a style of play perspective, the refereeing.
A lot of talk about that, like what stands out
to you there?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, I think one of them and that was the
big change where the hydration breaks. It's just so different
than than usual, you know. There there's a definitely you know,
a good case in terms of the climate and it's
so hot and when you're playing a game in Miami
or I don't know, in Mexico, or in stadiums that
(15:20):
aren't covered or stadiums like Atlanta, or Dallas it's really
hot and that does affect you. So I do respect
the hydration breaks depending on where you are.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
But you saw the impact.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
You saw the impact You could see in the in
the in the timeline of a game, and there were
there were analytics and you would see at many many
twenty three. You know, it could be like this for
a team and it could go one way, one way
or another. A team could drop off like this in
terms of performance, or a team could actually had used
that those three minutes to implement something. You know, a
(15:55):
coach gave some type of instructions or energy uplifted and
you saw a team go up. So that's one element
that I think that definitely controversial. You know you people
people would call it it's like playing quarters instead of
two halves. So that was just different for me. Am
I a fan of hydration breaks. No, do I see
a purpose of it in certain cities, yes, but it's
(16:17):
a questionable if they will continue doing doing that. Apart
from that, yeah, you mentioned refereeing. The amount of VAR.
You know calls VAR has its positives and negatives. Positives
is that, yes, you need to use technology this day
and age, but the technology needs to be used in
(16:40):
a way that's in a way humanized. And I know
it's hard to even say that. There was a game,
for instance, Colombia against Portugal. H Columbia could have won
that game. He was offside because of that technology, I
kid you not. It was by it by this.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
By a hairline. And it's just that if you're a
player and you're on your line, you would never.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Think that's offside because by the naked eye right there,
you're at the same your same level.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
You're not looking at.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Your your toenail, you know what I mean. So that
and then just certain certain certain referee callings, you know,
it's just the inconsistency in it all, and that's those
are those are ways that those are things that absolutely
need to improve because we did see a lot of
you know, unfair calls.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Do I want.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
To you know, crap on the referees, No, because I
do think they were also very good calls. But there
is the inconsistency, and that's one of the things that
I saw in this World Cup, I think more than
any other tournament before.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, I mean I was thinking as I was watching
it that it feels like as as popular and advanced
as soccer is in so many different aspects. It feels
like this is one case where the American leagues, be
at the NBA or the NFL, have sort of like
worked through this process of like how do we use
instant replay? Because the era is essentially instant replay, It's like,
(17:59):
how do we use it in a way that doesn't
really damage both the integrity either the integrity and or
the flow and pace. And I think you put it
really well, like the humanity of the game, Like we
can't take the humanity out of the game.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And that's the and and.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Part of it is, you know, the referees or human
beings and they have to we have to sort of
figure that in anyway for sure.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, it wasn't exactly the popular subject this summer.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, so so let's let's talk about next summer because
next summer feels really important in this context. You know,
the in my estimation at least, and you know it
much better than I do. You know, the women's national
team has been like the alpha team, the alpha national
team for a long time. You know, it's like we
(18:47):
know who they are. We know a lot of these stars.
The ninety nine ers. We talked about if you're thinking
about what US soccer should be doing to you know,
as they would say in the investment world, sort of
consolidate gains, like you know, sort of keep their momentum going.
Like I guess, maybe I'll ask you a different question,
which is, so does this change anything? Does this experience
(19:10):
having hosted the Men's World Cup change anything going forward
for the women's side? Is there anything to learn from
it or anything to sort of reinvest or invest in
in your estimation?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I think just so short term, like towards the Women's
World Cup. No, yeh, do I think it could, you know,
strike interest of more people being like, you know, they
maybe weren't soccer fans before in general, because you've had
sometimes a divvy. You've had the men's soccer fans, you've
had the women's soccer fans, and then you have both
(19:42):
and then you have none.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Okay, So that's the pie, right, that's the pie.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So I do think that, you know, perhaps this summer
could have been the tool or a bridge to tap
into the women's soccer to the Women's World Cup next summer.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And and then also I mean, let's be serious, like
Americans in general, but especially American soccer fans. Americans love
winning at the end of the day. So I do
think that because the women's national team are all about
that and are the most winning, winning women's sports team,
and especially in soccer, Americans are going to be like, oh,
(20:22):
hell yeah, you know, they're gonna They're gonna the ones
that didn't that didn't know or were fans of soccer before,
they're gonna be like, oh, I'm.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
A fan of this team.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And that's also what happens during Women's World Cups and
World Cups in general too, like they're all in on
that team or on the women's team, right. So I
think that next summer it's going to be incredibly exciting
for for Americans, but not just for Americans. I think
we saw it this summer. It wasn't all about the US.
As soon as the US were knocked out, like you know,
teams were like, holy shit, I'm on Team Norway because
(20:52):
you know, they're a vibe and they do the row
and I want to row. Uh and you just you
just you just saw people just find a like to
whatever team they supported, or if it was just a.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
Tournament in general.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Because the Women's World Cup in Brazil is going to
be the first Women's World Cup ever to be hosted
in South America. Yeah, you know us South Americans are
known for a good time.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I was gonna say, I feel like the conversation that
the theme of this conversation is vibes, and man, the
vibes next summer are gonna be intense, and I imagine
you'll be in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
So as we as we wrap up, like what's next
for you?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
This was you know, obviously you're like catching your breath,
but I know you're onder the next thing you've got
to You know, you've got sort of a burgeoning business empire.
Give us a sense of like where you're going and
where we can see you next.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So right now, where I'm going, where I just landed
is San Juan, Puerto Rico. I'm going to be on
an island called and I'm going to be vacationing and
I'm already just you know, I'm in it already, I've been.
So I'm just gonna take some time off. But my
my I have two things. My full time time is
with TNT Sports and so we cover all US soccer games,
(22:04):
US Men's and US women's national team games year round,
so it's not until the end of September there's going
to be a US Men's games. But then you know,
there's all the focus of course this years and lead
to the Women's World Cup, and that's with the US
women's national team under Emma Hayes, and you have such
incredible players such as Trinity Rodman, Malory Pew and the
(22:25):
Triple Espresso. You have young players coming up that are
going to be incredibly exciting too.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
So even though that the US women's national team is.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
By far the favorite in winning the Women's World Cup,
we cannot forget that Spain were the winners in the
last World Cup and the competition is only going to grow.
So the lead to this Women's Role Cup, there's going
to be a lot of a lot of attention. There's
going to be pressure, of course, but that's on my
raider for the broadcast coming up this year on.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
T and T Sports.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Apart from that, I do co own a coffee business
called Kickoff Coffee co. And it's specialty quality coffee straight
to your doors. It's e commerce, direct to consumer, and
it's a coffee company that bridges specialty coffee, fresh Beans
with the culture of soccer. All of our backs have
soccer images on it. Yeah, We've done incredible collabs with leagues,
(23:21):
with clubs.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
We just did one with Fellow Fellow Products, which.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Is one of the top companies, most well known companies
in the world of specialty coffee and machines and stuff.
So yeah, So that's pretty much of my two worlds.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
That and just you know, watching a lot of soccer.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, and it'll be interesting for everybody, I think, to see.
You know, the interesting thing for us soccer is to
think about the idea that there'll be the showcase next
summer of all the best women players, and so many
of them play here, you know, and so then you
can go to Gotham, where you can go to Washington,
Spear or Angel City or or you know, Portland or
(24:04):
wherever and see a lot of those players. So it'll
be interesting to see who the breakout, you know, who's
who's the Earling Holland of of next summer. So yeah,
and I have a I have a strong feeling that
you will be the one to tell us who it is.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So anyway, so.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
You really good to spend some time with you ass orties.
What a pleasure, have an amazing time down there.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Very envious.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
That sounds like that sounds like a very very well
deserved breaks And thank you so.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Much, Thank you so much for having me. I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Stay tuned after the break for my conversation with the
Neessa Perdomo, my colleague here at Bloomberg. Welcome back to
the deal. I'm Jason Kelly, and I'm here with an
(24:58):
old friend, an old young friend, colleague, someone that I
did a lot of stuff with over the years at Bloomberg,
Vanessa Perdomo Maglione. I knew, oh she was just Vanessa Perdomo.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
But she knows and knows this game inside and out.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
So I have so many questions for you about kind
of how the business of all this played out. It
was it felt dicey going into it. It felt like
people weren't going to show up either. They weren't going
to show up in the US. They weren't going to
show up in the games. The tickets were too expensive, logistics,
et cetera. So what is the vibe from a business
(25:34):
perspective coming out of the twenty twenty six World Cup.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
Well, the vibe from the business perspective is it's great.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (25:40):
I mean they made a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (25:42):
Listen, they made a lot of money. A lot of
people showed up going into every single World Cup. There's
all of this feeling. Every story is leading into it,
saying this is going to be the worst World Cup ever.
You know, this one did feel a little bit different.
I mean, we had a war going on. You didn't
even know if Iran was going to be able to
come to the World Cup actually until weeks beforehand, but
they came, they played. There's still a lot of controversies
(26:04):
throughout the tournament, but really those big conversations that were
had beforehand kind of fizzled away, as they do. I
think the US was very excited. I think we got
a lot of interesting things, all the European fans coming over,
falling in love with fast food and ranch dressing and
all these weird things that happened. But at the end
of the day, businesses did thrive, FIFA among all, obviously.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I mean FIFA is clearly the big winner economically. I mean,
they're they have reportedly told member associations they expect fifteen
billion dollars in revenue. The initial projection was eleven billion,
which already was a huge number. I mean, fifty billion
is no joke. I had a chance to interview Johnny
and Fantino just a few weeks before it started, and
he defended the ticket prices, basically saying these are market
(26:48):
driven prices. And the reality is, I think, much to
people chagrin, they got their money. Like they people bought
the tickets, some of them, you know, probably went for
a little less than the secondary mark. But at the
end of the day, fifteen billion dollars funds FIFA for
a long time. So FIFA is clearly a big winner economically.
(27:09):
And I will say one of the clearly big winners
in all of this from a business perspective has got
to be David Beckham. I mean absolutely incapable. Yeah, like
every commercial break, every hydration break, every single and then
obviously as England made a deep run all the way
to the semi finals, he was there. He was present.
He obviously has a vested interest in the English Football
(27:31):
club or an English national team, having played on it,
but also has a deep vested interest in Major League
Soccer as one of the co owners of Inter Miami,
sort of Messi's boss in some way. So let's talk
about the MLS because obviously Beckham, you know, was very
instrumental after the last World Cup in the United States
(27:53):
and you know, launch the MLS in nineteen eighty four.
One of the big coups, Phil Annshoots gets David Beckham
to go to La Galaxy. Where are we with the
MLS at this moment?
Speaker 7 (28:06):
From people I've spoken to and I've now checked in
with a lot of MLS teams since the final that
literally just happened, and they're very bullish on what they
can accomplish. But some candidly did mention to me that
obviously they wish the US got to the next round
because they really were hoping for that splash that we've
never seen before from the US team. But the MLS
(28:29):
is still really bullish. They think this is going to
do big numbers for them, you know, more than others.
I do think what happened. One of the big things
that happened for the MLS is that they used this
as way to sign deals that they would have never
signed before. Hey, we'll take you to games if you
want to be one of our partners, oh, you know,
and sign on the dotted line and we'll take you
(28:49):
to a World Cup game. You know, that kind of
thing was happening, and you're going to see a lot
of deal flow from the next three years. From what
I from the conversations I've had with MLA less executives,
you'll see a lot of deal flow that span from
them taking to people to World Cup games.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, it's interesting too to think about sort of the
next chapter of the MLS. And you know, Don Garber,
the longtime commissioner, is going to be stepping down. It's
down to a couple people. Based on some reports that
are out there, I don't know what you're hearing, but
you know one of the leading candidates is Larry berg Berg,
private equity guy who's one of the I worked at
(29:27):
Apollo and now works at twenty six North. He is
a co owner of LAFC. And you know, that is
an interesting development in terms of the sort of the
growing business of the MLS and this institutionalization and professionalization
of ownership that you and I have talked a ton
about and you do a lot of reporting on. I mean,
(29:50):
I'm worried about the MLS just to keep it a
being like I mean, I expected it to be further
along than it is now. I expected it to be
more a part of the conversation, and it just isn't.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I mean, it just isn't.
Speaker 7 (30:07):
I think the problem with the MLS and that we're
going to see is especially with a lot of casual fans.
And I had this conversation with some casual fans, even
you know people here at Bloomberg who were saying they're
tuning into the World Cup because it's all the best
players in the world playing at one place, where the
MLS is not. That you have the best player in
the world who plays in the MLS, and that's Lionel Messi,
(30:28):
which is great for in er Miami and it's been
great for the league. I mean that jump started their
business and aims insane amount for the MLS. But you
can't have only one player, and he can't be thirty
nine years old. You have to have younger people come in.
And the problem is with soccer in general. And this
is something conversations we have with a lot of people.
The reason why American football is so big here and
(30:50):
the NFL, the NBA, MLB is because the best players
in the world across the world play here in the US. Yeah,
and there's one number one league and that's played here
in the US. Soccer doesn't really have that at all.
You have the Premier League, which is maybe the best
league in the world, but it still doesn't have all
the world's best players. So I think that American fans
(31:11):
just aren't used to that.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, I don't like it.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
And one of the things that's clearly happened is, you know,
on this show leading up to the World Cup, we
had a fascinating conversation Alex and I did with Roger
Bennett from Men and Blazers and really sort of interrogated
this issue with them, like is it going to happen?
Is soccer and America happening? And what was fascinating to me,
and I've thought a lot about this since then, is
his answer is like, it's already happened, and it's called
(31:36):
Americans tuning.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Into the Premier League.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, and that's really what it is. And you know,
to your point, if you want to see Messi notwithstanding,
if you want to see the best players in the world,
you need to be watching Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
The Champion.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Maybe you need to watch the champions, yes, exactly, Syria, etc.
Speaker 7 (32:00):
Yeah, you need to be watching those other things. And
that's the That's the other biggest problem with the MLS is,
which I think you're getting at, is that the MLS
is actually the third most watched league in the US,
behind Premier League and behind Lega MX.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Right, is, in soccer the third most watched soccer.
Speaker 7 (32:15):
League, third most watched soccer league, not league overall. Yes, no, yeah,
So when you have two other foreign, foreign leagues that
are more popular in your country than your own league,
I mean that's a massive problem. Yeah, And especially with
Leaga MX being our being our neighbors to the south,
that is not helpful at all because all of the
(32:35):
Mexican fans here who are really passionate about soccer, right,
they're just watching LEAGAMX.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It does feel like economically interestingly enough, one of the
sort of sneaky winners in all of this was Mexico.
Three million international visitors showing up, which by all accounts
is more international visitors than the United States.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
God, and so a big boost to their economy.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
But also the profile of League MX and sort of
Mexican soccer and and all of those things that are happening.
You sort of wonder, you know, I'm interested to talk to,
you know, people around the business of soccer as this
goes forward. I wonder if those values start to move
a little bit as you know, as things start to
come up, because these valuations for MLS are pretty toppy.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
They feel pretty toppy, especially based.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
On attendance, and they're going to have to renegotiate this
media deal, right, it's going to be the the Apple
TV deal is going to be over three years early,
and that's going to have a huge determining factory. You
know this better than anybody on how much these teams
are valued at The.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
Interesting thing with the app the Apple TV deal was
when they got it, it was it seemed like an
astronomical number that they would get. A billion dollar you know,
media rights deal for the MLS felt very early for
them at this point in time. But that hasn't gone away.
It still will feel early if they get more money
than that.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, and they.
Speaker 7 (34:00):
Can't get less. We haven't really seen that happen yet
really in American sports at all. We haven't seen the
media rights go down for any league. So if that
happened to be very detrimental I don't imagine it happening,
especially after this World Cup, especially after the twenty twenty
seven Women's World Cup. I think I think the tension
for soccer is going to continue to get bigger. But
I think they top themselves out too early. I think
(34:21):
that the valuations of MLS teams, like you said, they're
a little bit high, higher than most people would expect
them to be. You have five teams over a billion,
so it's not NFL or NBA prices, but it's still
too high for a lot of investors who want to
get in, as opposed to Leaga MS, where you could
get in for a fraction of that price when you
(34:42):
know you have extremely loyal fans. They have the history,
which is something that the MLS also doesn't have, which
hurts them in terms of global soccer, because the reason
why people are fans of Premier League teams is because
they have one hundred years in history, right, which is
the same thing for Lega MX teams. So if you
can get in and investors are looking at the Mexicans, soide.
But they also have a media rights problem because their
(35:03):
media rights are sold off as pieces. Each team has
their own media rights deal in state not. You know,
investors do not like that. And I've talked to the
Leagua MX commissioner president about this and he said they've
been working on it because they know American investors do
not like that. They want the money to come in
from American investors because no matter what the MLS, their
(35:27):
business is rivaled across global soccer, even by the Premier League.
The MLS makes more money than some of these other
leagues make, just because American sports know how consumerism works,
and these other entities aren't really seen as entertainment properties.
They're seen as teams that belong to the fans.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Right, and that's so quaint.
Speaker 7 (35:49):
Yes, it's a durable for Americans. So they want this
sort of structure. LEAGA MS wants the structure of American soccer,
but they don't have the infrastructure get there yet. And
some of the LEA MX owners also own telecommunication companies.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Oh so they have a vested literally a.
Speaker 7 (36:08):
Literal invested interest and they don't want to give that
up yet.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
You you mentioned sort of what's ahead, so on the
global soccer calendar twenty twenty seven next year is the
Women's World Cup.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
That'll be down in Brazil.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Correct, Then look ahead to twenty thirty one, the Women's
World Cup will be back here in.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
The United States.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
So that's the next time that we will see sort
of FIFA in full throat here in the United States.
If you were advising Johnny and Fantino, which you know
he may be, is still be in charge at that point,
that's for another episode.
Speaker 7 (36:48):
I very much think he will be.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I think he will too.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I think you will too, despite you know, he and
Trump being I mean you you were there well and
also booed when they came to present the trophy as.
Speaker 7 (37:02):
The plight of any commissioner.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Though, yes, that's true, that's true, right, that's a very
good point. Roger Goodell has suffered many many a boo
and it's done quite well for itself at the NFL
y he sort of revels in it. But you know what,
do you think they have learned should learn from a
logistics business perspective from here in twenty twenty six that
they're going to apply in twenty thirty one when the
(37:24):
women come back here for the World Cup.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
I think what they've learned and speaking to people about it,
is how difficult it is to put on a World
Cup across such a large landscape. Now, that's not to
say that twenty thirty one is going to look different
and smaller. I very much imagine that we'll have a
lot of the same host cities. I do think they'll
probably add a few, like Nashville is very attractive. The
(37:51):
only reason they weren't a part of this World Cup
is because the stadium wasn't ready yet. They're you know,
the Titans are building a new stadium. So I imagine in
twenty thirty one, when that stadium is done, they'll use
it to their advantage because from conversations i've had, FIFA
really likes Snashville for multiple reasons. I think it's a
great city, it's very fun. But I do think we'll
(38:12):
see some others enter the conversation, and Nashville is actually
a pretty big soccer market as well. But I think
that one of the things they're going to learn is
just how FIFA operates. So you'll see I think stadium
owners acting differently, maybe a little bit more prepared at
(38:35):
least to hand over the keys to their stadium. I
think they're going to take the scale down a little
bit in terms of you're going to see group stage
matches on a smaller scale because of forty eight, could
be sixty four by twenty thirty one, sixty four national teams.
(38:56):
I mean yeah, because that's what Gianni m. Pantino is
talking about. You have even more games by twenty thirty one.
I think they're going to learn how to scale it
so that we don't have these questions about well, what
if they're small countries, no one's going to come. And
I do think the ticket prices will be very different
by then.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, the ticket price will be lower or even higher.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
I think they'll be lower for the women's World cut right, right,
because that's just how people see.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
That's just the unfairness that is structural sexism of.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
The sports world. Yes, but you're all too.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
Familiar with one other thing on the scale of twenty
thirty one that I think that they'll see is you'll
have some cities raise their hand again, and you have
some cities who won't raise their hand like I'm good
based Yeah, I'd be like, I don't think I want
to do this again, really at this at this level,
especially because of the way FIFA operates in their stadiums,
(39:52):
they take over their stadiums, they take over concessions, they
take over the money that these owners have to put
into You have to to invest infrastructure into stadiums for
them to be FIFA ready, and then FIFA takes all
the money. So I do think some owners will say,
I'm okay, I don't need to be part of this.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Do you name names?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Do you think there are places where it's not going
to show up next time.
Speaker 7 (40:13):
I don't want to name names because I don't want
to be wrong if they do decide to, you know,
be part of it. But I do think there's some
who have said I wouldn't do this again, But I
think it's inevitable. Like if LA or New York were
the ones saying. I'm not saying that they are, I'm
just saying if they were the ones who said I
don't think I'd want to do this again, they'd still
(40:34):
find a way to host games in that city.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Beauser. You can't do that, right? Yeah? No, I mean
it is.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
It just does roll over everything in such a meaningful way.
And you know, I guess one thing that people have
to remember is if you're hosting the Scotts, order more beer,
Order more beer, right, Boston. I mean, who knew Boston
was ever going to run out of beer?
Speaker 7 (40:58):
But yeah, but they definitely didn't think they would. But
I have heard from a lot of people who know
the Scottish fans very well that they knew they were
going to come in droves and that they would mortgage
their houses if they could get over here for it.
So I'm not surprised that they bought all the beer
and box Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, So if you could go back and you know,
knowing what we know now about how this World Cup
played out, what's a decision that could have been made
differently that you think would have made it either.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
As good or a better business story.
Speaker 7 (41:32):
It's an interesting thing because from a better business story,
I don't know if they could have made any more
money than they did. Honestly, I think that they squeezed
this World Cup for all it was worth. I mean,
we've seen that with all the conversation that was being
had with transportation in New York, New Jersey, specifically because
the ticket price is to get to the stadium if
(41:54):
you wanted to take public transportation, was one hundred and
fifty dollars, and then it was lowered, and then it
was lowered tony eight dollars and it stayed at ninety
eight dollars and people still took the train. They were
still tons of thousands of people taking this train. So
I think it ended up working out. And I think
the hydration breaks were another thing that people said, I
(42:15):
don't like this, but they made five here million dollars from.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Those, Is that right?
Speaker 7 (42:19):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Wow.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
So the hydration breaks particularly are another thing that according
to people that I've spoken with, they don't think those
are going to go away. And that is probably one
of the biggest takeaways that would come from this World
Cup is if hydration breaks stayed in every World Cup,
then you're changing what soccer is because it's not two halves,
(42:44):
is four quarter quarters? Yeah, And why would you need
that if you're playing in a climate that doesn't isn't a.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Problem, or if you're playing in a dome, if you're.
Speaker 7 (42:53):
Playing inside of a stadium, which is we've seen this
multiple times in this World Cup. There's you're playing inside,
or you're playing at nine pm and it's seventy degrees
outside and it's perfectly beautiful and there's still hydration breaks.
So but you see that money broadcasters aren't going to
be okay letting go of that. FIFA is not okay,
(43:15):
gonna be letting go of that's too much money to
leave on the table for them ever to go back.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I also do wonder. I mean,
I understand, you know, I understand the math. I understand
the math of like ticket demand and all the you know,
the hundreds of millions of requests that they that they
got for tickets. But I still do wonder about, going
back to what we talked about at the beginning of
(43:40):
the conversation, the whole growing the game aspect and whether
having more people or more socioeconomically diverse group of people
in the stadiums would have ultimately helped grow the game.
And maybe FIFA's like, listen, we're chasing the bag. This
is how we fund every thing. You know, got a
(44:02):
lot of people to pay, pay off, got a lot
of people to pay and you know, we want to
do all these things to you know, grow the youth
game and all these different things. It's just I don't know,
the accessibility question I feel like didn't didn't really get
answered in a satisfactory way.
Speaker 7 (44:23):
I think that's the biggest problem when we look at
soccer in the US is the accessibility. And I think
that one of the reasons why the men's national team
isn't where they are is because of an accessibility factor.
Youth soccer is an insane amount of money. I mean,
you have kids, you know how much youth sports costs.
It's a thousands of dollars of an investment. And in
(44:45):
the US you're kind of told there's this one path
you have to go through this system in order to
be seen by MLS teams, in order to be seen
by US soccer, you have to play on these private
club teams, and not everyone has the ability to do that.
And I think that's probably what we saw on scale
at the World Cup. It was you have to have
(45:05):
a certain amount of money to go to these games,
but it doesn't matter because you have to have a
certain amount of money to play this sport in the
country anyway. So I don't know if there's really even
a problem there on the US scale in terms of
would it have gotten more people into the sport world Maybe,
but they wouldn't be able to continue to play the
sport anyway. So the answer of the problem with accessibility
(45:26):
it needs to be answered at a totally different level
before it gets answered really on the ticket side, and
that's also only a US that's a very US specific
problem because even though FIFA made fifteen billion dollars from
this World Cup, and they'll probably try and figure out
how to make that amount of money again, but they
won't be able to because the US market's the only
(45:48):
market in the world that doesn't have regulations like others
do on ticket prices. We're not going to see this
in the twenty thirty one, In the twenty thirty World Cup,
we won't see these ticket prices because You're has a
completely different system and they.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Just won't allow that to happen, right right, Yeah, FIFA's
got to like put some of this money away to
make up for what they're not going to make over there.
So one thing that we should talk about is that
the attendance number, which is eye popping. It's almost seven
million people, six point eight million people. It's the most
attended World Cup and it's more than double the attendance
of Russia and Cutter combined. Now, those were matches, or
(46:26):
those were World Cups where there were sixty four matches.
Obviously there were one hundred and four. This time, but
should note that the previous all time attendance record you
have to go all the way back to nineteen ninety four,
the last time it was in the US. So is
that just these are big ass stadiums that people can
but gay, like, how do you sort of synthesize that?
Speaker 7 (46:48):
I think that that's pretty much what it boils down to.
I think we have just massive stadiums in the US.
I think when you look at the nineteen ninety four
World Cup and they're playing in the Rose Bowl and
places like that, where that whole one hundred day Yeah, right,
one hundred thousand people stadiums. They don't have those in
other places, you know, because normal soccer stadiums are sixty
(47:09):
five thousand, you know, around at the peak about eighty thousand.
I think that might be the biggest one, and in
London might be around there. So I think it just
comes down to size of stadium. And I think that
also just is a good analogy as to the US
does things big, Yeah, and we just that's just how
it is, and I think that's how the world perceives us,
(47:31):
and I think it's kind of correct thing.
Speaker 5 (47:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
I have some friends who went and did like the
whole premium, like paid for the premium experience a met
Life You're not getting that in just about any other
play in any other country in the world. That that
infrastructure just doesn't exist. We do sports in a different
way here.
Speaker 7 (47:51):
Yeah, absolutely, I think that it might have existed in
Cutter because of luxury that exists in Cutter and the
way that they spent I think they spent nine billion
dollars on infrastructure for the World Cup, so they did
have some luxury experiences there, but again, they can't sell
tickets the way that we do in the US. So
(48:13):
even though they were having a walk right onto the
pitch experiences and super luxurious where there's like a bed
in a hotel room and you walk right out into
the stadium and it's just this thing that you couldn't
imagine anywhere else except for probably that region of the world.
It doesn't matter because someone I spoke to at the
final spent twenty eight thousand dollars for their package for
the World Cup and that was just to attend all
(48:35):
eight matches, that is all eight matches at met Life Stadium.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yeah, that that's a lot of cheddar Vnes Prodomo Maglione,
Thank you so much, sports business reporter for Bloomberg and
the co host of the Business of Sports podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Great to see you.
Speaker 7 (48:50):
Miss you, Jason, You're the best.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts in Bloomberg Originals,
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
Show is produced by Stacy Wong. Our senior producers are
Alexis HoTT and Anamazarakis. Original music by Blake Maples. Our
booker is Paige Keffer. Our executive producers are Amy Kean,
(49:17):
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Elena Los Angeles and Nick Silva. You can also watch
this episode on The Deal on YouTube. Subscribe to The
Deal and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts.
It helps other people find the show. Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Deal.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I'm Jason Kelly alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. All Right,
we're talking World Cup and you know, leave it to you,
my brother, to you know, just be like casually at
the World Cup final flipping the coin.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's like, what is going on?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm like watching it on TV and you know there
you are doing your thing. So my man on the ground,
my you know, eyes, eyes and ears.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
What was it like? What was the experience like?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
First of all, the experience was unbelievable. It was like
Super Bowl like but like times ten. Yeah, because you
realize the gravity of an event. I've never been to
an American event in New York City right where the
Giants and Jets play their home games.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
And I'm walking around and like like.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
No one speaks English, right, and everyone's from Argentina or Spain.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
But they're like I saw people in tears. I saw
people crying.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I saw that you feel when you're an event, the
gravity of the recourse if the other team loses. Yeah,
and sometimes that's more that jumps off the page, more
than the excitement of people being there. So it felt
really big. I've been in many World Series finals, Super Bowls.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
This was like nothing I've ever seen before.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Really, I mean that's saying something because again, like you
you've literally like won a World Series. All right, So
so let me ask you this because you you know,
you live most of the time in Miami. Miami obviously
was like a key epicenter of this World Cup. You've
watched the messy effect over the past few years. You know,
(01:48):
put on your you know, you're Alex Rodriguez, investor, businessman hat, Like,
what does this make you think about the business of
soccer going forward?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Well, first of all, you have the perfect storm.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I had one of the Fox executives, who, by the way,
are over the moon thrilled. They paid seven hundred and
fifty million dollars for these rights, and that's a fraction
of what they pay the NFL, a fraction of what
MLB Baseball gets, you know, over those four years. And
yet the numbers, as you know, were unbelievable. I know,
we'll get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, sixty two point eight million just in the US
between English and Spanish broadcasts.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I mean, that is unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
And if you don't believe that, there's a great saying,
and this is a deal a business show. Numbers don't
lie in Just in twenty twenty two, the World Cup
top line revenue was somewhere around seven and a half billion,
and this year jumped to fifteen billion.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
And are those the numbers you have yet?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean more.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Up than one hundred percent in four years is remarkable. Yeah,
and if something really that's not sustainable. The viewership was
up one hundred and thirty two percent in the final game,
and the average game averaged around eight million people seven
and a half million people. So it was an absolute
whopper of a success for Fox and for.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Kids like you know, you have a young daughter, Jason.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I think for that generation of kids, we're gonna look
back in thirty years and say this is the moment, yeah,
of why so many young kids full in love with
the game.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Yeah, I think there's a real movement here in America.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
And coming up later, I'm going to talk with Melissa Ortiz,
who was one of your colleagues at Fox and was
covering a bunch of the games, a former player herself,
as well as Vanessa Perdomo, my colleague here at Bloomberg
our colleague here at Bloomberg who she hears out. She
played college soccer and now covers the business of sports.
And she was at the final in lesser seats than you,
(03:40):
but you know, everyone was.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Everyone was.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
But no, you're right, I mean and I mean the
other number that I'll throw at you, because we do
love numbers.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Here.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Total attendance was six point eight million, most attended World
Cup in history. One of the really interesting things about that,
so that's, by the way, that's more than the last
two World Cups combined. Now, part of it is there
were one hundred and four matches, but the second most
attended World Cup is nineteen ninety four. United States, so
(04:12):
part of its big stadiums. But this is why Johnny Infantino,
the president of FIFA, did everything he could to make
sure that this World Cup was in the United States,
because you know, this from being a very, very high
profile and successful American athlete. Sports in the United States
hits different. You know, I'm sure you know you got
(04:35):
to see all the benefits of that. Being in what's
normally known as MetLife Stadium was known as New York
New Jersey Stadium for the benefit of the World Cup.
But you know Americans they do sports a little bit differently.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
They do and you know, you've often heard me say
what I learned from my longtime mentor and TV that
you need the three s's, you need glor superstars. You
have that, you have strategy, and you have great storylines.
But you know, I was talking to my Fox executive
and I always like talking with Jimmy Petero at ESPN
or Eric Shanks at Fox. I would say, hey, boss,
(05:11):
what what is that ideal match for the finals? And
you know there was this famous line with David Stern
back in the day where he would say, you know,
the Lakers versus the Lakers.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Yes, you know, this isn't.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Quite so specific. This is more like the four brackets.
You have Yankee Dodgers Yankee.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Dodgers, so we can't lose. And then of course you
get you know, Spain or Argentina.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So it was an absolute whopper of a finals. But
for the Fox executives and from a revenue point of view,
you had all the tailwinds between the United States, the
two teams, the final four, the numbers, and.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Like you said, you just got to put.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Almost like a twenty five percent tax in revenue in America,
maybe fifty percent in this case was one hundred percent
growth from last time. So America is the biggest, the
best end if you're American. Got to say, where are
when the landscape of soccer? Yeah, America does not like
to be you know, top ten, They.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Like to be one.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, Well, and it'll be interesting to see, you know,
whether this changes the the complexion of investment in the MLS.
This is not the NFL, this is not most of
the NBA. This is a whole different sort of thing.
All right, Well, thank you for you know, doing your reporting.
(06:27):
It's a hard job that you have, you know, I
mean that I hope you practice flipping the coin.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Did you feel like it was a good flip?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Well, it was because I didn't flip it.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
The kid from the Boys and Girls Club reached it.
So I'm a Boys and Girls Club alum. Yeah, And
I've sat on the board for over twenty years and
it was one of those things, Jason that when I
got the call in January, and it was around my
birthday because my birthday is July twenty seventh, I was like,
this is just not going to age. Well, like that's
my time when I go away with my kids and
(06:59):
my family, and it started aging really well.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
And then a couple of months ago, I'm seeing the excitement.
I'm going, actually, this is actually really really.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
You're like this World Cup thing. People are super into this.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
All right, Well, get back to your life in the
Hamptons and you know you're grinding out there and we
you know, we're all here for it. Happy early birthday,
and you know now that you're on the other side
of fifty, it doesn't really matter. You know, last year
was your fiftieth. Now it's just like he's in his fifties. Sorry,
all down home. I'm right there with you, and it's
like the birthdays are just boring, and you know, until
(07:33):
we turned sixty, all right, see a partner, see you.
Welcome back to the deal, Melissa Ortiz. Really good to
(07:54):
have you with me. I have so many questions for
you about essentially what we just so you know this
is this is not.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Your first rodeo.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You have you've played the sport, You've covered the last
three World Cups. As you sort of distill it down
and digest it, like what's your top line takeaway?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well, first and foremost, thank you for having me super
excited to chat and especially chat.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
About World Cup.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I think my top line takeaway of this World Cup,
compared to either World Cups being in them as a broadcaster,
having at ten of them as a fan, or as
a player at a youth World Cup, I think this
one was just like a whole beast in itself, like
so many different different ways and aspects, from the expanded
format of how many teams competed in the in the
(08:42):
tournament to how many games were played one hundred and
four games were played. There was thirty nine days over
sixteen cities. In my role as a broadcaster, you know,
usually we'll stay in one city and then maybe pop
on and flyover to some other ones, and it's not
as crazy as a track, but since the US and
especially being over three countries, it's such a large country
(09:05):
with different time zones, it just made it even I
want to even say, more challenging, but I'd say at
the end of it all, even more rewarding. After hitting
so many accomplishments, especially on Fox, we reached over eleven
billion views, which is wild. Our goal going into the
(09:25):
tournament was to reach I think over three billion, and
I even told like our producers and our executives. I said,
you know, I have a feeling we're going to crush
that number because soccer compared to say, let's say the
Olympics and other sports, it's just soccer is the most
popular sport in the world. I think we're going to
crush this quickly. One weekend we already hit that number.
(09:48):
So when I say my main takeaway, it's just it
was a beast in itself. But then also my main
takeaway was that I absolutely love of the fact that
this that the USA was able to experience what soccer
is all about, right, And it's not just about the
ninety minutes on the pitch. It was about the fans
(10:09):
coming in and we saw the Norwegians and the Rose
you know, we saw the Scots and them just turning
you know, Boston into into Scotland.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So I think just the cultural impact, the soccer impact,
and hopefully the impact for the growth of the game here.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
In this country.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For me, it was an incredible experience and I'm I'm
going maybe I'll probably go to go through that like
post of playing days of like withdrawals, right, because it
was just always on a high every day, it was.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
It was incredible.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, And so what was your favorite storyline of this cup? Like,
what was the one that that you were most interested
sort of to cover, especially one that maybe because I
know I know you as a journalist like learning you
prepare so well, what what were the things that stood
out to you that you were especially excited in retrospect
(11:03):
to dig into.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
I got to and the first one is Cape is
Cape Verd?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Like that for me, that that storyline in itself a
country of a population of five hundred thousand people players
on the team that Yeah, there are some that you know,
of course played Division one in the prospective clubs countries,
but just came totally out of out of the blue,
out of the woodwork.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
When when FIFA announced that they were going to expand
this type of format, there was a lot of pushback
and I'm I'm going to be honest, like, even for myself,
I'm thinking, man, there's going to be some blowouts, like
how can you even compare in Argentina against the Cape Verd. Well,
you fast forward time and Argentina plays against Cape Verd
and all of a sudden it's tied and they're going
into extra time, and I was at that game. I
(11:51):
was at that stadium and when I saw that goal
scored by Lopez carral and it was just a banger,
top right corner, insane golf, It's wild. But when I
was living in that in that in that moment, you know,
the Argentine fans are by far more of the best.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Fan bases in the world because they're so loud.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
They chant the whole time, they're so passionate, and there's
not many times where there's a quiet moment in the
stadium because they just keep singing and jumping and all that.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
And there were there was two moments.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
In that stadium in Miami, which you know, it's a
it's a bit tighter, so you really do hear everything.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
And one of the moments was, of.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Course, when it went one one, and the other moment
was when Cape verd tied for two two, And I
kid you not, this stadium was quiet, and you look
around and you just see every fan are to tie
Arspotaian fan because there's only a small pack of Cape
Verdians up up there, and everybody's just like this, and uh,
(12:56):
it was a moment of silence that I had never
seen before. Like that in that sense, and I was
just like, wow, this is crazy. And then there was
another beautiful moment and that was just two minutes after
when the ball gets kicked off by Argentina, and then
that just made the Argentine fans just get louder and
louder with their chance.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
Just loud a whole other level.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So it was like, I say this, and it was
like we're living a real life novella. It was just
like drama and the antics and just I don't know,
it was so many curves and it was amazing and it's.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Why we love it. I mean, it's why we love sports, right.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I mean, it's like you just don't know, I will
say as a viewer, and I watched a lot watch
a lot of the Fox coverage. I thought one of
the most brilliant aspects of it were the fan reaction shots,
like the slow mode fan reaction shots. I mean, because
it's like you like, to me, that actually helps you
(13:57):
understand the game as much as watching the game is
like watching the fans, like watching the way they act,
the way they react the you know, like just a
barely missshot and just like the agony on someone's face
and it was like I can like see them in
my mind now, like these shots where it's like, oh,
(14:20):
you know, it's just incredible. So I mean, kudos to
the team at Fox for that, because I did feel
like it's like the cultural piece of this cannot go
sort of unremarked upon or unexamined, right, I mean it's
like and I do think that that was one thing
that we all felt was, yeah, we're all in this,
like we are in it. We've talked a lot about,
(14:42):
you know, what was going on in the stands and
off the pitch, and but you obviously follow very closely
what's happening on the pitch. What was different about this
one either from a style of play perspective, the refereeing.
A lot of talk about that, like what stands out
to you there?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, I think one of them and that was the
big change where the hydration breaks. It's just so different
than than usual, you know. There there's a definitely you know,
a good case in terms of the climate and it's
so hot and when you're playing a game in Miami
or I don't know, in Mexico, or in stadiums that
(15:20):
aren't covered or stadiums like Atlanta, or Dallas it's really
hot and that does affect you. So I do respect
the hydration breaks depending on where you are.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
But you saw the impact.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
You saw the impact You could see in the in
the in the timeline of a game, and there were
there were analytics and you would see at many many
twenty three. You know, it could be like this for
a team and it could go one way, one way
or another. A team could drop off like this in
terms of performance, or a team could actually had used
that those three minutes to implement something. You know, a
(15:55):
coach gave some type of instructions or energy uplifted and
you saw a team go up. So that's one element
that I think that definitely controversial. You know you people
people would call it it's like playing quarters instead of
two halves. So that was just different for me. Am
I a fan of hydration breaks. No, do I see
a purpose of it in certain cities, yes, but it's
(16:17):
a questionable if they will continue doing doing that. Apart
from that, yeah, you mentioned refereeing. The amount of VAR.
You know calls VAR has its positives and negatives. Positives
is that, yes, you need to use technology this day
and age, but the technology needs to be used in
(16:40):
a way that's in a way humanized. And I know
it's hard to even say that. There was a game,
for instance, Colombia against Portugal. H Columbia could have won
that game. He was offside because of that technology, I
kid you not. It was by it by this.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
By a hairline. And it's just that if you're a
player and you're on your line, you would never.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Think that's offside because by the naked eye right there,
you're at the same your same level.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
You're not looking at.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Your your toenail, you know what I mean. So that
and then just certain certain certain referee callings, you know,
it's just the inconsistency in it all, and that's those
are those are ways that those are things that absolutely
need to improve because we did see a lot of
you know, unfair calls.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Do I want.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
To you know, crap on the referees, No, because I
do think they were also very good calls. But there
is the inconsistency, and that's one of the things that
I saw in this World Cup, I think more than
any other tournament before.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, I mean I was thinking as I was watching
it that it feels like as as popular and advanced
as soccer is in so many different aspects. It feels
like this is one case where the American leagues, be
at the NBA or the NFL, have sort of like
worked through this process of like how do we use
instant replay? Because the era is essentially instant replay, It's like,
(17:59):
how do we use it in a way that doesn't
really damage both the integrity either the integrity and or
the flow and pace. And I think you put it
really well, like the humanity of the game, Like we
can't take the humanity out of the game.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And that's the and and.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Part of it is, you know, the referees or human
beings and they have to we have to sort of
figure that in anyway for sure.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, it wasn't exactly the popular subject this summer.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, so so let's let's talk about next summer because
next summer feels really important in this context. You know,
the in my estimation at least, and you know it
much better than I do. You know, the women's national
team has been like the alpha team, the alpha national
team for a long time. You know, it's like we
(18:47):
know who they are. We know a lot of these stars.
The ninety nine ers. We talked about if you're thinking
about what US soccer should be doing to you know,
as they would say in the investment world, sort of
consolidate gains, like you know, sort of keep their momentum going.
Like I guess, maybe I'll ask you a different question,
which is, so does this change anything? Does this experience
(19:10):
having hosted the Men's World Cup change anything going forward
for the women's side? Is there anything to learn from
it or anything to sort of reinvest or invest in
in your estimation?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I think just so short term, like towards the Women's
World Cup. No, yeh, do I think it could, you know,
strike interest of more people being like, you know, they
maybe weren't soccer fans before in general, because you've had
sometimes a divvy. You've had the men's soccer fans, you've
had the women's soccer fans, and then you have both
(19:42):
and then you have none.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Okay, So that's the pie, right, that's the pie.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So I do think that, you know, perhaps this summer
could have been the tool or a bridge to tap
into the women's soccer to the Women's World Cup next summer.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And and then also I mean, let's be serious, like
Americans in general, but especially American soccer fans. Americans love
winning at the end of the day. So I do
think that because the women's national team are all about
that and are the most winning, winning women's sports team,
and especially in soccer, Americans are going to be like, oh,
(20:22):
hell yeah, you know, they're gonna They're gonna the ones
that didn't that didn't know or were fans of soccer before,
they're gonna be like, oh, I'm.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
A fan of this team.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And that's also what happens during Women's World Cups and
World Cups in general too, like they're all in on
that team or on the women's team, right. So I
think that next summer it's going to be incredibly exciting
for for Americans, but not just for Americans. I think
we saw it this summer. It wasn't all about the US.
As soon as the US were knocked out, like you know,
teams were like, holy shit, I'm on Team Norway because
(20:52):
you know, they're a vibe and they do the row
and I want to row. Uh and you just you
just you just saw people just find a like to
whatever team they supported, or if it was just a.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
Tournament in general.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Because the Women's World Cup in Brazil is going to
be the first Women's World Cup ever to be hosted
in South America. Yeah, you know us South Americans are
known for a good time.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I was gonna say, I feel like the conversation that
the theme of this conversation is vibes, and man, the
vibes next summer are gonna be intense, and I imagine
you'll be in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
So as we as we wrap up, like what's next
for you?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
This was you know, obviously you're like catching your breath,
but I know you're onder the next thing you've got
to You know, you've got sort of a burgeoning business empire.
Give us a sense of like where you're going and
where we can see you next.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So right now, where I'm going, where I just landed
is San Juan, Puerto Rico. I'm going to be on
an island called and I'm going to be vacationing and
I'm already just you know, I'm in it already, I've been.
So I'm just gonna take some time off. But my
my I have two things. My full time time is
with TNT Sports and so we cover all US soccer games,
(22:04):
US Men's and US women's national team games year round,
so it's not until the end of September there's going
to be a US Men's games. But then you know,
there's all the focus of course this years and lead
to the Women's World Cup, and that's with the US
women's national team under Emma Hayes, and you have such
incredible players such as Trinity Rodman, Malory Pew and the
(22:25):
Triple Espresso. You have young players coming up that are
going to be incredibly exciting too.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
So even though that the US women's national team is.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
By far the favorite in winning the Women's World Cup,
we cannot forget that Spain were the winners in the
last World Cup and the competition is only going to grow.
So the lead to this Women's Role Cup, there's going
to be a lot of a lot of attention. There's
going to be pressure, of course, but that's on my
raider for the broadcast coming up this year on.
Speaker 6 (22:57):
T and T Sports.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Apart from that, I do co own a coffee business
called Kickoff Coffee co. And it's specialty quality coffee straight
to your doors. It's e commerce, direct to consumer, and
it's a coffee company that bridges specialty coffee, fresh Beans
with the culture of soccer. All of our backs have
soccer images on it. Yeah, We've done incredible collabs with leagues,
(23:21):
with clubs.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
We just did one with Fellow Fellow Products, which.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Is one of the top companies, most well known companies
in the world of specialty coffee and machines and stuff.
So yeah, So that's pretty much of my two worlds.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
That and just you know, watching a lot of soccer.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, and it'll be interesting for everybody, I think, to see.
You know, the interesting thing for us soccer is to
think about the idea that there'll be the showcase next
summer of all the best women players, and so many
of them play here, you know, and so then you
can go to Gotham, where you can go to Washington,
Spear or Angel City or or you know, Portland or
(24:04):
wherever and see a lot of those players. So it'll
be interesting to see who the breakout, you know, who's
who's the Earling Holland of of next summer. So yeah,
and I have a I have a strong feeling that
you will be the one to tell us who it is.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So anyway, so.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
You really good to spend some time with you ass orties.
What a pleasure, have an amazing time down there.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Very envious.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
That sounds like that sounds like a very very well
deserved breaks And thank you so.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Much, Thank you so much for having me. I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Stay tuned after the break for my conversation with the
Neessa Perdomo, my colleague here at Bloomberg. Welcome back to
the deal. I'm Jason Kelly, and I'm here with an
(24:58):
old friend, an old young friend, colleague, someone that I
did a lot of stuff with over the years at Bloomberg,
Vanessa Perdomo Maglione. I knew, oh she was just Vanessa Perdomo.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
But she knows and knows this game inside and out.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
So I have so many questions for you about kind
of how the business of all this played out. It
was it felt dicey going into it. It felt like
people weren't going to show up either. They weren't going
to show up in the US. They weren't going to
show up in the games. The tickets were too expensive, logistics,
et cetera. So what is the vibe from a business
(25:34):
perspective coming out of the twenty twenty six World Cup.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
Well, the vibe from the business perspective is it's great.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (25:40):
I mean they made a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (25:42):
Listen, they made a lot of money. A lot of
people showed up going into every single World Cup. There's
all of this feeling. Every story is leading into it,
saying this is going to be the worst World Cup ever.
You know, this one did feel a little bit different.
I mean, we had a war going on. You didn't
even know if Iran was going to be able to
come to the World Cup actually until weeks beforehand, but
they came, they played. There's still a lot of controversies
(26:04):
throughout the tournament, but really those big conversations that were
had beforehand kind of fizzled away, as they do. I
think the US was very excited. I think we got
a lot of interesting things, all the European fans coming over,
falling in love with fast food and ranch dressing and
all these weird things that happened. But at the end
of the day, businesses did thrive, FIFA among all, obviously.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I mean FIFA is clearly the big winner economically. I mean,
they're they have reportedly told member associations they expect fifteen
billion dollars in revenue. The initial projection was eleven billion,
which already was a huge number. I mean, fifty billion
is no joke. I had a chance to interview Johnny
and Fantino just a few weeks before it started, and
he defended the ticket prices, basically saying these are market
(26:48):
driven prices. And the reality is, I think, much to
people chagrin, they got their money. Like they people bought
the tickets, some of them, you know, probably went for
a little less than the secondary mark. But at the
end of the day, fifteen billion dollars funds FIFA for
a long time. So FIFA is clearly a big winner economically.
(27:09):
And I will say one of the clearly big winners
in all of this from a business perspective has got
to be David Beckham. I mean absolutely incapable. Yeah, like
every commercial break, every hydration break, every single and then
obviously as England made a deep run all the way
to the semi finals, he was there. He was present.
He obviously has a vested interest in the English Football
(27:31):
club or an English national team, having played on it,
but also has a deep vested interest in Major League
Soccer as one of the co owners of Inter Miami,
sort of Messi's boss in some way. So let's talk
about the MLS because obviously Beckham, you know, was very
instrumental after the last World Cup in the United States
(27:53):
and you know, launch the MLS in nineteen eighty four.
One of the big coups, Phil Annshoots gets David Beckham
to go to La Galaxy. Where are we with the
MLS at this moment?
Speaker 7 (28:06):
From people I've spoken to and I've now checked in
with a lot of MLS teams since the final that
literally just happened, and they're very bullish on what they
can accomplish. But some candidly did mention to me that
obviously they wish the US got to the next round
because they really were hoping for that splash that we've
never seen before from the US team. But the MLS
(28:29):
is still really bullish. They think this is going to
do big numbers for them, you know, more than others.
I do think what happened. One of the big things
that happened for the MLS is that they used this
as way to sign deals that they would have never
signed before. Hey, we'll take you to games if you
want to be one of our partners, oh, you know,
and sign on the dotted line and we'll take you
(28:49):
to a World Cup game. You know, that kind of
thing was happening, and you're going to see a lot
of deal flow from the next three years. From what
I from the conversations I've had with MLA less executives,
you'll see a lot of deal flow that span from
them taking to people to World Cup games.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, it's interesting too to think about sort of the
next chapter of the MLS. And you know, Don Garber,
the longtime commissioner, is going to be stepping down. It's
down to a couple people. Based on some reports that
are out there, I don't know what you're hearing, but
you know one of the leading candidates is Larry berg Berg,
private equity guy who's one of the I worked at
(29:27):
Apollo and now works at twenty six North. He is
a co owner of LAFC. And you know, that is
an interesting development in terms of the sort of the
growing business of the MLS and this institutionalization and professionalization
of ownership that you and I have talked a ton
about and you do a lot of reporting on. I mean,
(29:50):
I'm worried about the MLS just to keep it a
being like I mean, I expected it to be further
along than it is now. I expected it to be
more a part of the conversation, and it just isn't.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I mean, it just isn't.
Speaker 7 (30:07):
I think the problem with the MLS and that we're
going to see is especially with a lot of casual fans.
And I had this conversation with some casual fans, even
you know people here at Bloomberg who were saying they're
tuning into the World Cup because it's all the best
players in the world playing at one place, where the
MLS is not. That you have the best player in
the world who plays in the MLS, and that's Lionel Messi,
(30:28):
which is great for in er Miami and it's been
great for the league. I mean that jump started their
business and aims insane amount for the MLS. But you
can't have only one player, and he can't be thirty
nine years old. You have to have younger people come in.
And the problem is with soccer in general. And this
is something conversations we have with a lot of people.
The reason why American football is so big here and
(30:50):
the NFL, the NBA, MLB is because the best players
in the world across the world play here in the US. Yeah,
and there's one number one league and that's played here
in the US. Soccer doesn't really have that at all.
You have the Premier League, which is maybe the best
league in the world, but it still doesn't have all
the world's best players. So I think that American fans
(31:11):
just aren't used to that.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, I don't like it.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
And one of the things that's clearly happened is, you know,
on this show leading up to the World Cup, we
had a fascinating conversation Alex and I did with Roger
Bennett from Men and Blazers and really sort of interrogated
this issue with them, like is it going to happen?
Is soccer and America happening? And what was fascinating to me,
and I've thought a lot about this since then, is
his answer is like, it's already happened, and it's called
(31:36):
Americans tuning.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Into the Premier League.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, and that's really what it is. And you know,
to your point, if you want to see Messi notwithstanding,
if you want to see the best players in the world,
you need to be watching Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
The Champion.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Maybe you need to watch the champions, yes, exactly, Syria, etc.
Speaker 7 (32:00):
Yeah, you need to be watching those other things. And
that's the That's the other biggest problem with the MLS is,
which I think you're getting at, is that the MLS
is actually the third most watched league in the US,
behind Premier League and behind Lega MX.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Right, is, in soccer the third most watched soccer.
Speaker 7 (32:15):
League, third most watched soccer league, not league overall. Yes, no, yeah,
So when you have two other foreign, foreign leagues that
are more popular in your country than your own league,
I mean that's a massive problem. Yeah, And especially with
Leaga MX being our being our neighbors to the south,
that is not helpful at all because all of the
(32:35):
Mexican fans here who are really passionate about soccer, right,
they're just watching LEAGAMX.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It does feel like economically interestingly enough, one of the
sort of sneaky winners in all of this was Mexico.
Three million international visitors showing up, which by all accounts
is more international visitors than the United States.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
God, and so a big boost to their economy.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
But also the profile of League MX and sort of
Mexican soccer and and all of those things that are happening.
You sort of wonder, you know, I'm interested to talk to,
you know, people around the business of soccer as this
goes forward. I wonder if those values start to move
a little bit as you know, as things start to
come up, because these valuations for MLS are pretty toppy.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
They feel pretty toppy, especially based.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
On attendance, and they're going to have to renegotiate this
media deal, right, it's going to be the the Apple
TV deal is going to be over three years early,
and that's going to have a huge determining factory. You
know this better than anybody on how much these teams
are valued at The.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
Interesting thing with the app the Apple TV deal was
when they got it, it was it seemed like an
astronomical number that they would get. A billion dollar you know,
media rights deal for the MLS felt very early for
them at this point in time. But that hasn't gone away.
It still will feel early if they get more money
than that.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, and they.
Speaker 7 (34:00):
Can't get less. We haven't really seen that happen yet
really in American sports at all. We haven't seen the
media rights go down for any league. So if that
happened to be very detrimental I don't imagine it happening,
especially after this World Cup, especially after the twenty twenty
seven Women's World Cup. I think I think the tension
for soccer is going to continue to get bigger. But
I think they top themselves out too early. I think
(34:21):
that the valuations of MLS teams, like you said, they're
a little bit high, higher than most people would expect
them to be. You have five teams over a billion,
so it's not NFL or NBA prices, but it's still
too high for a lot of investors who want to
get in, as opposed to Leaga MS, where you could
get in for a fraction of that price when you
(34:42):
know you have extremely loyal fans. They have the history,
which is something that the MLS also doesn't have, which
hurts them in terms of global soccer, because the reason
why people are fans of Premier League teams is because
they have one hundred years in history, right, which is
the same thing for Lega MX teams. So if you
can get in and investors are looking at the Mexicans, soide.
But they also have a media rights problem because their
(35:03):
media rights are sold off as pieces. Each team has
their own media rights deal in state not. You know,
investors do not like that. And I've talked to the
Leagua MX commissioner president about this and he said they've
been working on it because they know American investors do
not like that. They want the money to come in
from American investors because no matter what the MLS, their
(35:27):
business is rivaled across global soccer, even by the Premier League.
The MLS makes more money than some of these other
leagues make, just because American sports know how consumerism works,
and these other entities aren't really seen as entertainment properties.
They're seen as teams that belong to the fans.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Right, and that's so quaint.
Speaker 7 (35:49):
Yes, it's a durable for Americans. So they want this
sort of structure. LEAGA MS wants the structure of American soccer,
but they don't have the infrastructure get there yet. And
some of the LEA MX owners also own telecommunication companies.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Oh so they have a vested literally a.
Speaker 7 (36:08):
Literal invested interest and they don't want to give that
up yet.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
You you mentioned sort of what's ahead, so on the
global soccer calendar twenty twenty seven next year is the
Women's World Cup.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
That'll be down in Brazil.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Correct, Then look ahead to twenty thirty one, the Women's
World Cup will be back here in.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
The United States.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
So that's the next time that we will see sort
of FIFA in full throat here in the United States.
If you were advising Johnny and Fantino, which you know
he may be, is still be in charge at that point,
that's for another episode.
Speaker 7 (36:48):
I very much think he will be.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I think he will too.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I think you will too, despite you know, he and
Trump being I mean you you were there well and
also booed when they came to present the trophy as.
Speaker 7 (37:02):
The plight of any commissioner.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Though, yes, that's true, that's true, right, that's a very
good point. Roger Goodell has suffered many many a boo
and it's done quite well for itself at the NFL
y he sort of revels in it. But you know what,
do you think they have learned should learn from a
logistics business perspective from here in twenty twenty six that
they're going to apply in twenty thirty one when the
(37:24):
women come back here for the World Cup.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
I think what they've learned and speaking to people about it,
is how difficult it is to put on a World
Cup across such a large landscape. Now, that's not to
say that twenty thirty one is going to look different
and smaller. I very much imagine that we'll have a
lot of the same host cities. I do think they'll
probably add a few, like Nashville is very attractive. The
(37:51):
only reason they weren't a part of this World Cup
is because the stadium wasn't ready yet. They're you know,
the Titans are building a new stadium. So I imagine in
twenty thirty one, when that stadium is done, they'll use
it to their advantage because from conversations i've had, FIFA
really likes Snashville for multiple reasons. I think it's a
great city, it's very fun. But I do think we'll
(38:12):
see some others enter the conversation, and Nashville is actually
a pretty big soccer market as well. But I think
that one of the things they're going to learn is
just how FIFA operates. So you'll see I think stadium
owners acting differently, maybe a little bit more prepared at
(38:35):
least to hand over the keys to their stadium. I
think they're going to take the scale down a little
bit in terms of you're going to see group stage
matches on a smaller scale because of forty eight, could
be sixty four by twenty thirty one, sixty four national teams.
(38:56):
I mean yeah, because that's what Gianni m. Pantino is
talking about. You have even more games by twenty thirty one.
I think they're going to learn how to scale it
so that we don't have these questions about well, what
if they're small countries, no one's going to come. And
I do think the ticket prices will be very different
by then.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, the ticket price will be lower or even higher.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
I think they'll be lower for the women's World cut right, right,
because that's just how people see.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
That's just the unfairness that is structural sexism of.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
The sports world. Yes, but you're all too.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
Familiar with one other thing on the scale of twenty
thirty one that I think that they'll see is you'll
have some cities raise their hand again, and you have
some cities who won't raise their hand like I'm good
based Yeah, I'd be like, I don't think I want
to do this again, really at this at this level,
especially because of the way FIFA operates in their stadiums,
(39:52):
they take over their stadiums, they take over concessions, they
take over the money that these owners have to put
into You have to to invest infrastructure into stadiums for
them to be FIFA ready, and then FIFA takes all
the money. So I do think some owners will say,
I'm okay, I don't need to be part of this.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Do you name names?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Do you think there are places where it's not going
to show up next time.
Speaker 7 (40:13):
I don't want to name names because I don't want
to be wrong if they do decide to, you know,
be part of it. But I do think there's some
who have said I wouldn't do this again, But I
think it's inevitable. Like if LA or New York were
the ones saying. I'm not saying that they are, I'm
just saying if they were the ones who said I
don't think I'd want to do this again, they'd still
(40:34):
find a way to host games in that city.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Beauser. You can't do that, right? Yeah? No, I mean
it is.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
It just does roll over everything in such a meaningful way.
And you know, I guess one thing that people have
to remember is if you're hosting the Scotts, order more beer,
Order more beer, right, Boston. I mean, who knew Boston
was ever going to run out of beer?
Speaker 7 (40:58):
But yeah, but they definitely didn't think they would. But
I have heard from a lot of people who know
the Scottish fans very well that they knew they were
going to come in droves and that they would mortgage
their houses if they could get over here for it.
So I'm not surprised that they bought all the beer
and box Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, So if you could go back and you know,
knowing what we know now about how this World Cup
played out, what's a decision that could have been made
differently that you think would have made it either.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
As good or a better business story.
Speaker 7 (41:32):
It's an interesting thing because from a better business story,
I don't know if they could have made any more
money than they did. Honestly, I think that they squeezed
this World Cup for all it was worth. I mean,
we've seen that with all the conversation that was being
had with transportation in New York, New Jersey, specifically because
the ticket price is to get to the stadium if
(41:54):
you wanted to take public transportation, was one hundred and
fifty dollars, and then it was lowered, and then it
was lowered tony eight dollars and it stayed at ninety
eight dollars and people still took the train. They were
still tons of thousands of people taking this train. So
I think it ended up working out. And I think
the hydration breaks were another thing that people said, I
(42:15):
don't like this, but they made five here million dollars from.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Those, Is that right?
Speaker 7 (42:19):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Wow.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
So the hydration breaks particularly are another thing that according
to people that I've spoken with, they don't think those
are going to go away. And that is probably one
of the biggest takeaways that would come from this World
Cup is if hydration breaks stayed in every World Cup,
then you're changing what soccer is because it's not two halves,
(42:44):
is four quarter quarters? Yeah, And why would you need
that if you're playing in a climate that doesn't isn't a.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Problem, or if you're playing in a dome, if you're.
Speaker 7 (42:53):
Playing inside of a stadium, which is we've seen this
multiple times in this World Cup. There's you're playing inside,
or you're playing at nine pm and it's seventy degrees
outside and it's perfectly beautiful and there's still hydration breaks.
So but you see that money broadcasters aren't going to
be okay letting go of that. FIFA is not okay,
(43:15):
gonna be letting go of that's too much money to
leave on the table for them ever to go back.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I also do wonder. I mean,
I understand, you know, I understand the math. I understand
the math of like ticket demand and all the you know,
the hundreds of millions of requests that they that they
got for tickets. But I still do wonder about, going
back to what we talked about at the beginning of
(43:40):
the conversation, the whole growing the game aspect and whether
having more people or more socioeconomically diverse group of people
in the stadiums would have ultimately helped grow the game.
And maybe FIFA's like, listen, we're chasing the bag. This
is how we fund every thing. You know, got a
(44:02):
lot of people to pay, pay off, got a lot
of people to pay and you know, we want to
do all these things to you know, grow the youth
game and all these different things. It's just I don't know,
the accessibility question I feel like didn't didn't really get
answered in a satisfactory way.
Speaker 7 (44:23):
I think that's the biggest problem when we look at
soccer in the US is the accessibility. And I think
that one of the reasons why the men's national team
isn't where they are is because of an accessibility factor.
Youth soccer is an insane amount of money. I mean,
you have kids, you know how much youth sports costs.
It's a thousands of dollars of an investment. And in
(44:45):
the US you're kind of told there's this one path
you have to go through this system in order to
be seen by MLS teams, in order to be seen
by US soccer, you have to play on these private
club teams, and not everyone has the ability to do that.
And I think that's probably what we saw on scale
at the World Cup. It was you have to have
(45:05):
a certain amount of money to go to these games,
but it doesn't matter because you have to have a
certain amount of money to play this sport in the
country anyway. So I don't know if there's really even
a problem there on the US scale in terms of
would it have gotten more people into the sport world Maybe,
but they wouldn't be able to continue to play the
sport anyway. So the answer of the problem with accessibility
(45:26):
it needs to be answered at a totally different level
before it gets answered really on the ticket side, and
that's also only a US that's a very US specific
problem because even though FIFA made fifteen billion dollars from
this World Cup, and they'll probably try and figure out
how to make that amount of money again, but they
won't be able to because the US market's the only
(45:48):
market in the world that doesn't have regulations like others
do on ticket prices. We're not going to see this
in the twenty thirty one, In the twenty thirty World Cup,
we won't see these ticket prices because You're has a
completely different system and they.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Just won't allow that to happen, right right, Yeah, FIFA's
got to like put some of this money away to
make up for what they're not going to make over there.
So one thing that we should talk about is that
the attendance number, which is eye popping. It's almost seven
million people, six point eight million people. It's the most
attended World Cup and it's more than double the attendance
of Russia and Cutter combined. Now, those were matches, or
(46:26):
those were World Cups where there were sixty four matches.
Obviously there were one hundred and four. This time, but
should note that the previous all time attendance record you
have to go all the way back to nineteen ninety four,
the last time it was in the US. So is
that just these are big ass stadiums that people can
but gay, like, how do you sort of synthesize that?
Speaker 7 (46:48):
I think that that's pretty much what it boils down to.
I think we have just massive stadiums in the US.
I think when you look at the nineteen ninety four
World Cup and they're playing in the Rose Bowl and
places like that, where that whole one hundred day Yeah, right,
one hundred thousand people stadiums. They don't have those in
other places, you know, because normal soccer stadiums are sixty
(47:09):
five thousand, you know, around at the peak about eighty thousand.
I think that might be the biggest one, and in
London might be around there. So I think it just
comes down to size of stadium. And I think that
also just is a good analogy as to the US
does things big, Yeah, and we just that's just how
it is, and I think that's how the world perceives us,
(47:31):
and I think it's kind of correct thing.
Speaker 5 (47:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
I have some friends who went and did like the
whole premium, like paid for the premium experience a met
Life You're not getting that in just about any other
play in any other country in the world. That that
infrastructure just doesn't exist. We do sports in a different
way here.
Speaker 7 (47:51):
Yeah, absolutely, I think that it might have existed in
Cutter because of luxury that exists in Cutter and the
way that they spent I think they spent nine billion
dollars on infrastructure for the World Cup, so they did
have some luxury experiences there, but again, they can't sell
tickets the way that we do in the US. So
(48:13):
even though they were having a walk right onto the
pitch experiences and super luxurious where there's like a bed
in a hotel room and you walk right out into
the stadium and it's just this thing that you couldn't
imagine anywhere else except for probably that region of the world.
It doesn't matter because someone I spoke to at the
final spent twenty eight thousand dollars for their package for
the World Cup and that was just to attend all
(48:35):
eight matches, that is all eight matches at met Life Stadium.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yeah, that that's a lot of cheddar Vnes Prodomo Maglione,
Thank you so much, sports business reporter for Bloomberg and
the co host of the Business of Sports podcast.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Great to see you.
Speaker 7 (48:50):
Miss you, Jason, You're the best.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts in Bloomberg Originals,
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
Show is produced by Stacy Wong. Our senior producers are
Alexis HoTT and Anamazarakis. Original music by Blake Maples. Our
booker is Paige Keffer. Our executive producers are Amy Kean,
(49:17):
Kelly Leferrier, and Ashley Zingaro. Special thanks to Rachel Carnivale,
Elena Los Angeles and Nick Silva. You can also watch
this episode on The Deal on YouTube. Subscribe to The
Deal and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts.
It helps other people find the show. Thanks for listening.
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