TMLR Week 16 Recap: Sell, Sell, Sell?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't have to do a game out.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
This game recap.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Oh, I'm sorry that.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
I'm known when you are, I'm undervous sound the music
stops to me.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
You cans it out. We got the canast the last year.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Did your right shoulder surgery?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well? Deep bouts of left field?

Speaker 4 (00:34):
That goes in to that.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
He looks up and.

Speaker 5 (00:45):
One long time.

Speaker 6 (00:48):
Yeah, all right, Welcome to another episode of TECs M
Reports here on the Just Baseball Network. I'm alex Is,
Chris Brown and the Branded Day And before we move on,
I just want to get this cleared up once or
for all.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
We are a Detroit so for those who are new.

Speaker 6 (01:09):
To us or trying to find out what we are,
we are a Detroit Tigers podcast that.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Includes the big league teams and the minor league teams.

Speaker 6 (01:16):
I have to say that with the disclaimer because for
whatever reason, yes, we've clipped the hot minor league stuff
all the time on Twitter. Sure does MLB pipeline not
give us a bone? No, that's fine. The point I'm
trying to make with all this is that we have
the reason why I kind of switched the braining a
little bit. Tigers and More Report thinks we just cover
the minor leagues, but we talk about the Tigers all

(01:36):
the time. We even write about the team on our website.
So anyway, I just want to get that out of
the way because whatever reason, there's just like, oh, you know,
you guys just talk about the minor leagues. No, well,
talk about the big league team. If you listen to
the first forty five a half hour, forty five minutes
of each podcast on Monday nights, do you talk about
the majors league team quite a bit?

Speaker 7 (01:55):
So, yeah, pretty quick, pretty quick running through the minor
league usually, I mean it's yeah, usually just kind of
the last segment of the show. But yeah, I mean,
we've all been covering the minor leagues forever, and we've
all been covering the Tigers for forever, because it's all
one thing at the end of the day. And I
just checked in on Bless You Boy Slack and they're
talking about various squirrel recipes and experiences with the squirrel.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
As a food start. It just cracked me up. I've
had it and stew a few times. But that's that's
where we're at with the squirrel is more interesting than
the game.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Unfortunately, I look a little squirrely tonight. Yeah, I'm a
little squirrel. I've had a really weird day, but I
feel like I've had.

Speaker 6 (02:31):
The just just I know, you know why I'm looking
squirrely because some jackasses stole my.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Course. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh, I was gonna say some jackass.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
Stole my Twitter account and making me look like a
sorry part of my language, but I don't care make
me look like a crypto bro.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
And so anyway, it's been a long Twitter sucks.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Twitter is such a debacle. God, it's just brutal. I
kind of gave it a while.

Speaker 7 (02:56):
I kind of thought like, all right, this is an
absolute crap show for a couple of years, but eventually, like,
kind of get it together.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
It just gives you worse. Yeah, did you click on
a d M? Was it something asking you to vote
for something?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
It was something.

Speaker 6 (03:08):
I don't know what it was, like I I know
that it had to be something to do like I
really honestly it was something that was on my phone,
like it was I think what it was just when
I was switching making too authentic, trying to make the
two authentication and did something screwed that up?

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Because you know, so.

Speaker 6 (03:27):
Anyway, it doesn't matter got a new Twitter account at
the Rogecast. But anyway, there, I just wanted to get
that out of the way about the baseball stuff because
just making clear for everybody who's new listening to us
from the Facebook Baseball Network, we do cover all things Tigers.
I saw that showing you bought a house in BMW.
It wasn't me.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
No, yeah, Barbara talked about hyper asking for Tiger's podcast.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Who was.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
Barbara Quaid?

Speaker 5 (04:00):
She was, She's a professor at UM and like MSNBC
correspondent or whatever, and she liked you, like Days of Roar.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
I think because of evn't so she's looking for something.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
That she said she likes you too, but she didn't.
You know, I just wanted for bar because I was
on Evan show.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (04:17):
True, but at the same time, you know you are
You're good at what you do, so and at any rate,
I just yeah, when I I saw Barber was like, well,
I might just talk.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
About the miners, and I was like, no, no, but anyway,
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 6 (04:31):
Right now, the Tigers are losing eight to five to
Baltimore as they were chasing them the wild Card. Today
begins the Hug Week watch as treating by Looms. I
had a couple of people down there saying, there's like
about ten or about ten scouts on hand, the which
is usually you you the scouts every game. Let's not
kill herselves here there's more scouts than normal. And so

(04:52):
right now, the question is where the Tigers are going
to trade or not. And it's a question that I
know for fact that next week we'll be covering more
in depth through the Street Deadline next week's Straight Deadline
show and Thomas, I don't know why they're running James
outman out on the field, but we'll get to that
a little bit. But yeah, so trade the Tigers bullpen
this weekend, bleue not one but two leads this weekend,

(05:14):
as they could have had a chance to sweep the worlds.

Speaker 7 (05:16):
But I mean, I know, the the offense, you know,
it is getting ginged quite a bit, and that's fair,
but you still have to be able to win some
games where you only score a couple of runs, Like
you know, there's there just isn't a team out there
that scores five, six, eight runs every every single game,
and the Tigers just consistently need to do that. It
seems like, you know, they've gotten away when they had

(05:38):
Montero and the bullpen. They got away with it for
a little bit. But yeah, it's you know, it's the bullpen.
It's it's always been the bullpen. It's been the bullpen
all year. Yeah, there are other things that we could do,
but like the one thing that there's no solution for
is just like where are they going to get, you know,
any bullpen arms. So yeah, listening to you know, Scott Harrison,
well at least reports that that's what the Tigers are

(05:58):
shopping for. I mean, that's fine, but there's so much
that that they have to accomplish in the next week,
you know, getting under the the luxury tax threshold or
the threshold, getting under that, figuring out if they're going
to trade Schooble. You know, if they lose a bunch
of games this week, they might decide to just tell
everything that nailed down. We do have a bunch of
lefty relievers and someone too. But you know, know, they

(06:21):
win the next five games and then all of a
sudden we're right back to like, oh, well, maybe you
know we should stay in it. It's really in Schrodinger's
Week of Baseball here, Like I don't. I don't know
what they're going to do, and I don't know when
they're going to start doing it.

Speaker 5 (06:35):
Hey, we we've mentioned a bunch of times that it's
it's just so hard to dig yourself out of a
big hole when your bullpen is unreliable.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
And right now that the Tiger's.

Speaker 5 (06:43):
Bullpen is, they're like they're run in the relay race
with the pecan like a frozen dog turn.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
It's just it's.

Speaker 5 (06:52):
Just after another and like there's no right choice, and
it just it's just such a bummer to watch that.
You know, Casey Mayes gave him more than I expected
the other night and they still couldn't keep that one.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
And it and it, it is.

Speaker 5 (07:06):
It's a total team game. We talked about this when
we're at the game, like there's defensive miscues, bad based
running at times, a lack of flutch hitting when they
need it, and it just compounds. And then again, nothing
breaks your back like a bullpen that gives up home
run blake. And that's all they do lately.

Speaker 7 (07:22):
Yep, Yeah, I mean they you know, one through six,
the Tigers lineup looks pretty good, you know, Like how
ULI's been hitting. I don't know quite how much that
will that will hold up, but you know, I mean,
we've just got three black holes in the lineup still
every night, and yeah, and there's just no one, no
one you can depend on.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
And this just feels so familiar. You know, it was
the same way all last year.

Speaker 7 (07:42):
Like they just don't I don't know if this is
what the front office thinks, but they definitely have that
attitude of blake. You know, anybody who throws strikes can
relieve for you, and you shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't
go too crazy committing assets to.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
That, to that portion of it. And I don't know
pretty much all of modern baseball, you.

Speaker 7 (07:57):
Know, would would argue otherwise. So here we are, and
I don't really know what to tell them to do.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
I would just say along the lines of outman and
what we've seen, like they just seem to believe that
the most important thing is to have somebody who's gonna
catch the ball that shortstop in center field. That's how
you end up with Zach Short getting a bunch of
plate appearances this year and James out With getting a
bunch of They just seem to value that more than
anything else.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
And so you know, I don't know if there are
readily available bats.

Speaker 5 (08:27):
At those positions that are any better, but it certainly
doesn't seem to be something that they're actively looking for.

Speaker 7 (08:32):
And they would probably be right about that if they
were actually getting like lots of offensive production from the
offensive positions, you know, like if they were getting you know,
fifty five sixty home runs with a two fifty average
from first base and third base combined, you know, then yeah,
that philosophy makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
But like, this outfield other than Riley Green is doing nothing.

Speaker 7 (08:52):
Carrie Carpenter needs to switch to zero drop shoes and
get his planter fischets in order.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I would recommend Hoby Bear. This actually really did work.
If you've ever had planning planner fash itis, you.

Speaker 7 (09:04):
Do eagle claw exercises where you fold your foot that
way and then and then you get yourself some zero
drop shoes and you know, your calves get stronger and
you're you're rolling. But yeah, there's a bit of a digression,
but yeah, you know, the corner outfield other than Riley
isn't doing much.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
The outfield in general, other than Riley isn't hitting much.

Speaker 7 (09:22):
And you know, you don't get enough out of first
base and third base to have you know, just defenders
out there, and you guys did a really nice job.
I thought, you know, kind of debating the Max Clark
issue and you know, on the call up series, and yeah,
I mean I think we all know they they want
to wait until he'll retain Ricky eligibility next year because

(09:44):
he's probably got a twenty percent chance of winning Brookie
of the Year and the Al next year. I would
guess something like that. There aren't that many other guys
who look like they're going to be on target to
be called up on the you know, the first of
the opening day and and compete against him. Not that
Max Clark is necessarily gonna put up a six war
season or something next year, but at the same time,

(10:05):
that's like if you're worrying about that, but then you
also have to worry about, you know, not blowing your
graft position this year with the schoobl situation, and are
you trying to win or are you not? Because I
have to think that Max Clark is better than James
Outman right now. I think he's better defensively, and he's
clearly a better hitter. I mean, he just is he's

(10:27):
not gonna hit and he's not going to run into
one for you, maybe quite as often, but all those
other at bats where James Outman is just going to
strike out, Max Clark's gonna put the ball in play
a ton so and try to run like a little demon.
So you know, if they if they're if they were
deadly serious about winning, like he probably would be up
right now. But they're they're playing all sides of these things,
and I don't know, they're caught in the middle.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
It's the one thing about this Christmas orry.

Speaker 5 (10:53):
No, it's I've got to delay here on my end,
so I apologize. It's it's like three or four seconds
behind everybody. No, we were talking about. You know, even
if they don't want to bring up Clark, they could
bring up Brett Callahan if they wanted to. I mean,
he's he's probably not any better in center field than Outman,
but he's a guy you don't have to worry about
losing his rookie eligibility next year. I mean, they brought

(11:14):
up mal Jerry. He can play center field in a pinch.
He played it a lot in the minors. They get
it's like the only thing that they believe in is
have you done this at the big league level? You
know they brought Workman up and didn't claim an inning
at shortstop.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (11:29):
Yeah, And I mean Callahan, I think we all know
isn't isn't really ready, Like he needs more time to
you know, kind of work on being a lot more
selective at the plate, Like he continues to chase a
lot even though he's been productive for the mud Hens
and looks like he's going to settle in there. And
I have you know, I have some love for Brett Callahan,
but he's also still like for a guy who's what
twenty four and you know in his third season he

(11:50):
didn't play a whole lot the first two years because
he was kind of banged up intermittently and never really
got you know, a whole lot of runs. So there's
still a chance that he could develop more if you
if you give him the time to do it. But yeah,
I mean, how is he not a better option than
James either?

Speaker 1 (12:03):
You know, it's yeah, it's it's baffling.

Speaker 7 (12:06):
Like I didn't hate outman mood when they did it
like for a short term thing, like okay, you know, like, hey,
you need a left handed bat.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
There and someone who's who's confident out there.

Speaker 7 (12:14):
But yeah, at this point they've got options, they should
be desperate, and they're still just sort of like, let's
see how it goes a little longer, you.

Speaker 6 (12:22):
Know, as far as like, you know, weird. It's even like,
by the way, somebody Joey wants to totally given the
cold Keef or change the scenery cannedy. Dude, he's been
batting three thirty three the last two weeks. He's been
playing better at third base. I mean tonight he has
some mental this was saying, like cold Keief has a
really good game and then he has these mental laps.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
So it's kind of weird.

Speaker 6 (12:45):
But I again, again it's the whole team though, I mean,
it's not not just him, but you know, like yesterday
made a really dived fine play and show his arm
and it was like, wow, holy crap, that's that's something
we haven't seen in a while from him.

Speaker 7 (12:57):
But whether you think they're upside right, Like, you know,
do you think he's ever going to get to more power?
He's not ever really going to be like a very
useful defender unless they move him to first base and
full time, and like actually let him get comfortable there.
But he does hit, and he's under cheap team control
until he's like thirty, So you don't really want to
just give up on him. I mean, if someone wants

(13:19):
to give me, you know, a fringe top one hundred
prospect for him, then yeah, you know, then you start
considering it, if someone is actually going to come for
him and say, like, hey, we think we can develop
this guy into a into the good player that we
thought he would be, rather than just sort of a
an okay, you know, player who hits but doesn't really
have a position. You know, you consider it, but I
would rather yeah, I mean I would you know, he's

(13:39):
so cheap. I would just rather kind of let it
play out.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
But I also think he's, like I said, a third
base has come a long way.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
It's not like he's like this horrible gut better.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, so I'm not.

Speaker 6 (13:48):
I'm not willing to give up on him yet until
it's like Nick Cassiano's bad and it hasn't been that bad.
So that's where, like I think the biggest difference is, yes,
is he not hitting that twenty thirty who run power
that we saw in them?

Speaker 2 (14:00):
No, and that I'm not sure what what the hell
happened there with that, but I'm still seeing.

Speaker 6 (14:05):
Enough to where it's like, Okay, yeah, you know he
loves over three, but then it comes back in the
next day, and that like Spencer Turcos who first wing
and then on Saturday pops up.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Then Chris and I were betting Chris.

Speaker 6 (14:16):
I think I think it was Chris had said he
was gonna strict or I think you said it was
gonna strick out or whatever the case was. But like
these are bats are becoming so predictable with some of
these people, some of these guys, it's it's embarrassing, it's
it's in frustrating. And then Glaboratories was supposed to be this,
you know, the veteran back goes oh for five yesterday
and just the look the worlds are paying the ass

(14:36):
still giving.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
The Royals are a giant paying in the ass.

Speaker 6 (14:38):
Yeah, you have to pitch them a certain way because
they are They're missing Bobby Wood Junior, and I think
they're missing, uh, missing somebody else too, aren't they They're
missing us? Yes, thank yeah, and uh yeah, And they
still were able to go in there and keep everything close.

(15:00):
And that's what those were mean Baltimore, the Baltimore Series,
I expect some sort of challenge because Baltimore's offensively better.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Good lord, folks, come.

Speaker 7 (15:09):
On, yeah, should have been able to shut down the Royals.
I mean, they're hard to score a ton of runs
against because they do defend well for the most part.
And but yeah, I mean their pitching staff is you know,
a shot full of holes. So the fact that we
couldn't get to them, you know, for more runs, is frustrating.
And the fact that yeah, that you know, they ended
up kind of putting in some pretty lack lesser efforts
on Saturday and Sunday overall kind of all around was

(15:32):
pretty frustrating. But you know, I mean this again, yeah,
like we keep saying this goes back to May, like
they just dug too deep a hole.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
They played great. I mean, they've done everything you could
have asked them to do from June first on. Really
you can't. You can't expect much more than this from
any team.

Speaker 7 (15:47):
And you know, it's it's only gotten them back, like
into the fringes of the conversation.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
And that's the problem. You know, the hole was too deep.

Speaker 7 (15:55):
So you know, I mean, I haven't given up and
even if they trade you know, Google and make some moves.
I wouldn't like count them out of the wild card
just because it's baseball and insane things happen. Like we've
seen insane things happen each of the last three years.
You know, no one could predict, you know, how things
are going to play out. But as far as like
betting on this season right now and not collecting a

(16:18):
bunch of young talent for the future, I just.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm convinced.

Speaker 7 (16:22):
I mean, I've been convinced for a while now that
they probably need to trade Schoogle, So you know, we'll
see if they agree. It hasn't helped matters that Jack
Flaherty got hurt, because they could have probably at least
got rid of his contract and given themself enough payroll
room to go get themselves a reliever as well. But
he's out and won't be back until after the trade
deadline conveniently timed, and you know, so the options just

(16:46):
start really there. You know, they kind of need to
kind of need to sell what they can sell. Maybe
not everybody, but anybody that you can get a prospect
that you like for you probably need to go in
and kind of twenty twenty four it up here.

Speaker 5 (16:59):
You can take the still trade flarity, but yeah, I'm
not sure likely people are ut.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, yeah, we'll see what happens.

Speaker 6 (17:09):
I mean as fart as like even Mies right now,
I think mys is I think might be gone. I
really think that Casey is more likely than one of
the first ones to go. I really, I really think
that it's just a team month of Diamondbacks or in
the in the fit of things, maybe Chris and I
were talking about special struggles and going to Arizona because
the first base situation, I think the near what near

(17:30):
the ranked last and first base production Chris or something
like that.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
Pretty low.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think Cody did point out that they
brought up it. Ben Williamson, is that right, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (17:42):
I mean I do think it's a good time to, like,
if someone will give you something for Torklesen, it's it's
a good time to you know, cast cash that chip
in probably and for whatever it's worth.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
And get out of there.

Speaker 7 (17:51):
But yeah, and then you call it this move keep
over there played Valencia a little bit.

Speaker 5 (18:01):
You know, it's a particular homestand I would said this
homestand reminds me a lot of the last like ten
game homestand that where I was talking about like, all right,
this is it.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
They've got to do it here. And they started off
with the sweep of the White Fox and then ended
up going five.

Speaker 5 (18:15):
And five because they lost a series to the Yankees
and Astros, and this one started out great, right, two
wins against the Royals, a low league team, clearly gonna
win this series, and then buck guess and now coming
out and getting you know, jumped right away. It's a
really bad time for Kider Montero to have his worst
outing of the year. Yeah, he's been so good and
it just kind of sucks that that when they knew

(18:37):
him most here he just didn't have it. And then
but you know, the offense has continue to fight back,
but the bullpen it's, like we said earlier, it's at
relay and it's not good.

Speaker 7 (18:47):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's easy to forgive Cater
of course, because they've kind of messed around with them,
and you know, like they needed him in the bullpen
and this and that, but it is still a little
frustrating that he'll have like these these bursts of a
couple outings where all of a sudden, this bricouts are
there and then they just completely disappear and he just
doesn't have to handle on a single breaking pitch again
and kind of just has to you know, attack with

(19:08):
four seem sinker and it's almost like nothing else. And
the Royals or the Orioles did a nice job of
just taking their singles.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know.

Speaker 7 (19:15):
One of the ways Montero has been able to exploit
a lot of teams is getting them to take hacks
because they're seeing a lot of fastballs and so he'll
just kind of pepper around the edges and get a
lot of weak contact that way and a lot of
quick outs. And Yeah, to their credit, the Orioles just
kind of just kind of barrel them a little bit,
you know, just like not taking big swings, like we're
just going to keep lying on the ball of the
outfield and running the bases, and yeah, piled it up,

(19:36):
and then eventually the dinger started piling up as well.

Speaker 6 (19:40):
Yeah, and then you know you also look down at
their in terms of like reliever shake up, You're like,
do you call up somebody like right now Jim Beller
mentioned d Hinges, who's Diaz at some point, who's on
the forty man roster. I think that like by the
end of the week, like they have a really tough
series come up. They have Dato sacrament I know, to
play the A's whatever their health, they're what the hell

(20:03):
they're called. Then they go to Seattle, then they have
San Francisco and that looks a giant cake to the
nuts snes higher time because at that point, next week's
gonna be the trade deadline, so they're gonna be out
west and like I said, just how this team's gonna
be completely different when I come back to play Cleveland
and the White Sox and Chris you mentioned this I

(20:23):
think yesterday about how big those division series are and
really puts them into play, right.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
It's you know, you look at the standings heading into
the day.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
I think the.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
Tigers were five hundred against everybody and one six against Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
You could look at it that way. I think they're
like twelve and seventeen against the division.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (20:43):
You got to win these games against teams that are right,
and I don't know, we just just see it. It's
it's an incomplete, flawed team that can't get out of
its own way.

Speaker 7 (20:54):
And I mean, I think another little interesting note has
been that the base running has sucked the past week,
and uh, you know, Joey Korra departs and Billy Boyer
takes over and all of a sudden, there's a lot
more like uncertainty. Like you know, there's been some weird holds,
like how you lee yesterday was going to score easily
and you know had to absolutely slam on the brakes.
You can get do hurt that way tonight, you know,

(21:15):
like a couple of guys like just not reading the
ball perfectly, like they were tricky reads because they were
plays that might have been made but they weren't. And
we gave up ninety feet both times by you know,
by holding up and sometimes that's just bad luck. But
but in general, yeah, like I don't know, they haven't
looked the same on the bass pass Colt Keith. You know,
taking third tonight was like the one like super aggressive

(21:36):
move and that one wasn't really a very good idea.
So they were lucky to you know, not get a
get a run, voided there by him getting thrown out
at third. So yeah, I don't know, there's there's there's
just some funky, funky stuff going on as usual where
they can look really good, you know, for so long,
but they're still not convincing that, you know, I mean,

(21:57):
as good as the record is of the last seven weeks,
I don't think anyone is convince you know that, you
know that's the team. This is fundamentally like, you know,
we're really a six hundred you know team, and you
know we just had May and we'll just wipe that up.
You know, it's just hard to bet on that the
rest of the way. And yeah, I mean you know
what was Thomas saying up there, like you know, why
would you guys trust None of us do trust Skyris,

(22:17):
but he's in charge, Like there isn't some other option,
you know, where it's just like, well, we should just
not do anything until Chriscillich decides to you know, to
fire the fire.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
And that's it's not gonna happen. So here we're stuck
with who we're stuck with.

Speaker 6 (22:32):
Here's here's what we're saying, Like, look, the a Rod
situation was absolutely botched. Okay, no one was complaining when
the Tiger signed frame renvel is nobody.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
If you were complaining, then please show me receipts.

Speaker 6 (22:45):
Okay, please show me receipts about that, or my kenta
maa aa should have had two years that was on record,
we're saying that it should have one year. That being said,
and then the Verlander thing, who knew this was gonna happen,
Like a lot of this stuff is like, Okay, now
we can sit there and say and HI, like, oh
look Verlander.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yes it was a risk, no matter what.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
But everybody was a million two million dollars. I know
the tax too, you know, But like for.

Speaker 6 (23:12):
Us to sit there and go, well, all we all
expected all these moves to be shite. No one expected that.
Man Like I like the vowel that as signing. I
like the Verlanders. I liked the Kelly Janssen signing it
because he's been effective this year. He has it, So
I don't you know, I don't know it happened with
Joe Nathan. Every guy sat out signing with Joe Nathan
and he sucked for a little while here, and you know,

(23:33):
like I wasn't talking about Alex Cobb and none to
do with Alex Cobb. Alex Cobb was a shitty signing
day one because he was like Chris and I had
been on record about this.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
He was injured the entire time.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
Go ahead, Chris, Yeah, well he got out of bed
that one time and his and then they got it
checked out and then with the other hand. But it
was like, oh boy, like I go back and forth,
right because ultimately I give up record.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
I mean, just none of that matters. I mean, Thomas
Scott Harris is your GM, Like you know, it sucks,
but you know.

Speaker 6 (24:10):
Anybody did anybody know that Charlie Morton and Chris pant
we're gonna hit Pattic hits the bed.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
No, well, I don't think that matters, though, I really don't,
because I mean, if you don't year, it's not last
year exactly they did. It's not up to us though,
to like know in advance, like what the right and
wrong move is.

Speaker 7 (24:25):
It's the guy who makes millions of dollars and has
like fifty million, you know, dollars worth of an analyst,
you know, department to like.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Figure these things out. So I don't.

Speaker 7 (24:33):
I don't rip them for any individual move like really ever,
because they're small. Like That's the thing about Harris is
that for the most part they've been small and inconsequential moves,
and when you make a lot of moves like that,
you're gonna miss quite a bit because there's a reason
these guys are available on one year deals.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
They're not that good, but you can't miss I'm damn
near all of them. And that's the problem.

Speaker 7 (24:53):
I mean, I just think the totality of record is
is quite terrible from Scott Harris in that regard like signings,
you know, I mean, we could wind about Jarvis and
you know, Liam Hicks and the worst, but there just
haven't been very many good moves, you know, Like they
drafted Kevin McGonagall, they made a decent trade for you know,
Jack Flaherty probably, and they made a pretty good trade

(25:15):
for Michael Lorenzen. But you know, after four years, I
mean there's a lot of trades that were bad. You know,
we gave up a closer for Justin Henry Molloy, who
was you know, a guy who didn't have a position
and ultimately can't hit. I mean, we don't need to
get into the whole thing, but I mean I do
think that the track record for Scott Harris is pretty
pretty damn bad. Other than the draft, where they've been
solid like pretty solid. I think if Kevin McGonagall hadn't

(25:39):
rushed up here like an absolute demon, like, our farm
system would still.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Be, you know, top five.

Speaker 7 (25:45):
So, you know, should we keep Kevin McGonagall down there
so our farm system doesn't get ranked twenty second by
Baseball America, which I don't care about because I think
they're wrong at a bunch of guys. But you know,
I mean I see people pointing that out, like, oh,
even the farm system sucked. I don't really think that's
the case. They're just missing pitch. They are missing upper
level pitching, and they need to get some and they
need to do it somehow at this deadline because they

(26:07):
need support in the years to come, and they can't
just sign a bunch of free agents that they can't
option and have to like do exactly what we're doing
this year, where you know, you have to go get
like three free agent relievers that you can't do anything
with if they're struggling, but keep using them. And you
can't call up guys and send them down if they're
struggling to work on things. You know, we don't have
that optionality right now, and that's another thing that's kind

(26:28):
of killed them this year. If we had, if Andrew
Sears was one hundred percent ready, I'd put him right
in the bullpen right now, because, as far as I'm concerned,
he might be the best relief.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Option they have.

Speaker 7 (26:36):
But you know, they don't need a lefty necessarily, that's
not that's not really you know, the sweet spot. But
you know, Andrew Sears might be the only guy they
really have in the in the farm system, in the
upper level right now because Jake Miller just keeps getting
hurt that is going to be able to help them
next year. So I don't know what you guys want
at the deadline. I mean, I kind of just want
the best players. I try to always keep it that way,

(26:56):
but man, they need some They need a pitching prospect
who is close to ready or or a major league pitcher.
So yeah, I mean, if they if the Braves want
to trade us Diddy er Flints in a hitting prospect
for Tark School, I'm probably interested. I don't I don't
really think the Braves want to do that, but you
never know, I don't know who's going to do what.
The Diggers are starting to say they're not that interested
in schoobl and that just sounds like DS to me.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, that sounds like.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
Yeah, well, I mean they might not be interested at
school in schooble at the process that's being basically, you know,
I started, I tend to do these big research projects
I have done on a handful of times, and so
I started going through and looking at every move made
in the first four seasons of Dave Debrowski, Alavila and
now Scott Harris, and it's it's kind of stunning how

(27:45):
many nothing moves everybody makes. There's so many like random
free agents they signe that don't even play, that are gone, and.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
It's not I don't know.

Speaker 5 (27:55):
I think we have this feeling that things happen faster
than they they normally do, because you know, Dobrowski's fourth
year was two thousand and five, and I don't think
anybody was heading into two thousand and six thinking yep,
World Series bound, Like the Tigers were bad for four
straight years and then it all came together that one
year and they stayed relevant for another decade or so.

(28:17):
It's hard to know when it's all going to come together.
You know, you do your best, I think, and you
try to make the best moves and to your point, Brandon, Yet,
like once you make so many moves and so few
of them work out, it's probably time to change your
approach and rethink your policies. And if you don't, you're
gonna be out of a job because it's not working.

Speaker 7 (28:39):
Yeah, yep, I mean you can't, you know, I mean
you can't have this kind of a track record. I
mean I've gone you know, I've gone through and written
up like how much money they've wasted on zero War
over the last you know, three and a half and
now four years.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I mean that you can't do that, Like, you just
can't miss that much.

Speaker 7 (28:56):
Like there need to be some hits, and you know,
they haven't been able to find anybody, you know, to
really put in the back end of this bullpen who's legit.
It's just a lot, it's just a collection of you know,
mediocre relievers. And you know, yeah, maybe Scott Harris is
planning for twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, and that's
kind of like always been his timeline. But he doesn't
get to chease well, he does get to choose, but

(29:17):
he missed, you know, as far as I'm concerned, Like
they had a window with tark S Gooogle in twenty
four and twenty five, they didn't want to spend any money.
You know, they bailed on Bregman, who would have been
a big help last year, even if the contract doesn't
look that good now, So they didn't spend money then,
and then at the very last moment they spent so
much money that now they're like over the threshold and
they're still not getting any value back from most of

(29:38):
these signings. So I mean, overall, I mean, I've just
been pretty miserably disappointed. Shout out to Mark Mark Connor,
who continues to do really good work. That's about the
only guy in the whole organ that I'm like real
high on at this point.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
And look, here's the.

Speaker 6 (29:54):
Thing, Scott Harris does deserve all the criticism. He has
not been seen or heard from Runk Miracle Parker a
few months now. I've been down there enough to know
and asking around and trying to find but no, no
one has seen him. Look, he's not out there when
the Tigers are doing good in June. He hasn't been
out there at all. Draft Knights usually that is not anyway.
So you see everybody else and as far as Tinkler

(30:17):
is a Villa drafted guys. Again, this is something I
have to stress this enough. Players develop differently. No one
developed under Avila. Nobody, Okay, period, end of story. Nobody
Tell me who developed under Avilla. Tell me who exactly
came up it became a better hitter on Reveala.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
Because you can't, I would say, Carpenter. Yeah, yeah, the
Carpenter came up the day of Villa was fired.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
I still think this is a good argument for a J.

Speaker 7 (30:47):
Hinch is that just about anybody who's been any kind
of a prospect, who's who's gotten to the major league
level has gotten better and at least hung in there.
Like there were times when Spencer Torkleson looked like he
may wash out completely, or that you know, Riley Green
might not really turn into a very good player, or
that Dylan Dingler might never hit, and you know, they
continued to help those guys improve for the most part.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, Keith is frustrating.

Speaker 7 (31:09):
There's some misses as well, but for the most part,
most of the like the real fine tuning and development
has all gone on at the major league level under
Hinch and Fetter Lombard. So yeah, but yeah, they were
not developing worth a crap under Reveala until you know,
until basically it felt like Hinch and maybe some of

(31:29):
the other guys in the front office like made Alavilla
force out Dave Littlefield and go go on a search,
and they found a good guy in Garko, And now
we have Ferrell and Garko's you know, the AGM.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
So these guys are still all, you know, entrenched in
here that's mentioned.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
I mean, that's sorry, go ahead, christ I was just
gonna make my last point about the bullpen. They got
into like a mild discussion on Twitter today because there's
it's the Tiger's data account put out that tweet that
just kind of tee of retweets that the Tigers have
lost seventeen games that they led after seventeen or seven innings,

(32:06):
the most in baseball, but the Rangers had only lost one.
And so I looked into it and it was like, boy,
these numbers are awfully similar. Like the Rangers have they've
just gotten the job in high leverage.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
The Tigers have it. But I looked, you know, you
look at the guys the Rangers signed.

Speaker 5 (32:21):
It's Jacob Junas and Tyler Alexander and I just I
could just picture like I didn't really want Kenley Janssen.
I didn't believe it last year when it was supposedly
the Tigers were interested because I'm like, oh, he's not
their type of picture. Apparently is because extension, I don't know,
but but like I was fine with Finnegan. I think
will vest was a good reliever until he was obviously hurt.
And it's just both ends are so annoying and dumb,

(32:43):
and you would think that like at one point he
would all work out. It kind of did three years ago,
right when they just had magic with Hanafee and Guntherer
and everything seemed to work.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
Losing Herder isn't helpful, but like, yeah, I just you
can't predict that somehow.

Speaker 5 (33:00):
Jacob, Judas and Keler Alexander are going to be lights
out and Finn again and Jansen can't get anyone out
when you need to.

Speaker 7 (33:06):
Yeah, I mean, and I think, you know, the lesson
there just comes back again to the farm system, you know,
like if you if the reason things worked out in
twenty twenty four is because for all his flaws, by
the time Alavila left.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
After whatever it was eight seven years, they had a
ton of pitching.

Speaker 7 (33:21):
And you know, they didn't have like great pitching, but
they had Kater Montero, they had Brand Herder, they had
Time Madden to all come help out. They had will Vest,
they had Dylan Smith, they had you know, they found
Sean Gunther briefly, you know, some guys who helped them out.
They had bow Briski in the system for forever, you know,
as a whatever I can't even remember, undrafted free agent
or picked in the thirty something round.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
You know, they had arms and they.

Speaker 7 (33:44):
Don't have those arms around her buzzy. Okay, I'm thinking
of Folly. But yeah, you know, you have to have
that optionality in your own in your own system to
be able to call some guys up. And we know,
you know, apart from the rare like genius elite reliever,
most good relievers are former starters. And the Tigers don't
have any former starters to convert right now, unless you

(34:07):
want to consider Drew Anderson, you know, a former starter
to some degree.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
You know, I can make this counter argument here.

Speaker 6 (34:12):
The counter argument to that is, yes, we have pitching,
but they didn't have any up to meet up the
middle type hitters at all.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Nobody.

Speaker 6 (34:20):
I mean, they didn't really, So the trade off has been,
all right, we gave up pitching and which now they're
trying to address right now in the last two drafts,
and they went for up the middle type players, young
players that you know you can you can see the potential,
and even the international players you can see that potential
right now twenty twenty eight. As much as Thomas might
be I hate to say that, but it might be

(34:41):
the case. You're twenty eight. But there is the one
thing that blows my mind right now about Harris is
the fact that you had a clear need to get
a bat. You knew that Carpenter was beat up last year,
and that has been one gripe with him, you know,
like you couldn't get an outfield bad. You could get
Shirlia Martinez out there. He goes to Kansas City like

(35:03):
you couldn't get him. Like it just that part makes
no sense to me. That partam makes zero sense to me.

Speaker 7 (35:08):
There's been a lot of lack of you know, proactivity
in the whole front office approach to this, you know,
like like I mean, we've been talking about this all year,
but just.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Rolling with Virling and McKinstry.

Speaker 7 (35:18):
You know two guys who are you know, past their
cell by date, probably who were never more than utility
guys in the first place.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
But they don't they don't turn the roster over.

Speaker 7 (35:28):
It's like everybody has a permanent spot here until you know,
until they completely go to hell for you know, months now,
and then maybe they can be deafade.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
But you know, they're not proactive.

Speaker 7 (35:36):
They haven't developed this roster at the major league level
very well either, you know, and a lot of guys
have just sort of like aged out or they had
their one peak season and they've been waiting for him
to you know, repeat it for a year or two years,
and it's not happened.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
So yeah, I mean, so I don't necessarily disagree with
them not going out and signing a bat. Right that
the bets all the freegent last year, aside from Peter
A Lonzo I think have looked pretty bad. But that
doesn't mean you can't make a trade for a bat.
And that's just something we've never seen, not for a
big league bat, right like they've traded for a couple
of minor league bats. He mentioned Malloy origin Lee, But yeah,

(36:15):
it's just not a lot of creativity on that front.
We used to complain about the lack of creativity from
the Vela front office in terms of drafting, making interesting
like three team trades and taking on salary and all
that stuff, and now it's just like, it'll trade it all.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, they just don't do anything until they absolutely have to.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
It feels like, yeah, look the Liam Hicks thing.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Come, let me put this the rest.

Speaker 6 (36:34):
No one expected Liam Hicks to be whill five pick
out on the Marlins and do what he's doing. I'm sorry,
nobody thought that. If you thought that when he was
down in Double A, you know, gradually she's probably won
the lottery.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
No one like that.

Speaker 6 (36:46):
Okay, enough with the Hicks stuff. That's just like, to me,
that is all the Marlins. That's good scouting in the
Marlins part. But no what the Tigers expected, Like, no
one expected him to be picked up. And that was,
by the way, the only signing the Marlins had.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
All year that year.

Speaker 7 (37:03):
I mean, yeah, I mean again, I don't like, I
don't want to harp on any one of those individually.
I mean, you know, I mean it was a bad move,
it just is. But yeah, I mean it's not like
I thought Liam Hicks was going to be a plus
you know, plus hitter. But he could hit, he just
couldn't catch.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
But it is what it is.

Speaker 7 (37:20):
Like, Yeah, I mean you have to add it all up,
and I think when you add it all up, it
it looks pretty bleak for this front office. But yeah,
I mean I don't want to nag them over like
every every one like minor deal every every team kind
of misses.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
I'm you know, little things once in a while. But yeah,
here we are. And I don't think very many people
in this in this fan base have a much you know, confidence.

Speaker 7 (37:43):
And people will you know, and people will kind of
act like, oh well you needed to say, yeah, well
it's not Revision's history. It's it's just an assessment of
how things turned out.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
No, no about Hicks.

Speaker 5 (37:54):
I was I was starting to say that the Revision's
history that I'm enjoying, the one I like the most
right now is And I think I mentioned this before.
If you go back to the draft, the twenty twenty
four draft, to the Tigers take Brace Rainer in their
first pick. Their second pick, they take o one Haul
one pick after him goes picking totally and their third
pick they take eat the scheffl by Hi one pick
after him is Gage jump if you take those two

(38:16):
guys instead.

Speaker 7 (38:18):
And I think, you know, and I think we would
all agree, like the Rainer pick was good though, right yeah,
I don't see anybody else I liked until they until
they got to Gillen, who went like eight spots later,
you know. But and that's why I kind of want
them to trade for Gillan now, because he just feels
so Tigerish.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
But I don't think.

Speaker 7 (38:33):
I don't know, I don't think they can get him.
I'm I'm not one hundred percent convinced that the Rays
would be willing to do that, So.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, I don't think.

Speaker 6 (38:41):
So yeah, Look, I mean, like I said, I feel
like right now we're we're thirty eight minutes in or
three nine minutes of this podcast here, and here we
are acting on the Tigers are in the last place
and the worst team ever, and they just come back
to the two back to back playoff appearances. So I don't,
I don't know, Like sometimes I really don't know what

(39:04):
Like there's as far as the show direction goes today,
it's like damn if you do damn if you don't.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
If you say anything nice, you're gonna get yelled at.
If you say anything bad, you're gonna yell at.

Speaker 6 (39:12):
So look, look the Tigers are Look, I will say this,
they should trade and go and move on because quite frankly,
I don't what I don't trust his hair is when
he's gonna get back on trades.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
He has to get this trade deadline right. If he doesn't,
he loses his job. It's that simple. Yeah, it's that
simple because he I don't know.

Speaker 6 (39:32):
The we saw Steve. I's like I thought that maybe
Illich would give some time as Steve Adaman. No, he
quietly resigned. He's not, you know, so again he has
to get this trade deadline right. If he doesn't get
it right, I mean the two playoff appearances aside, the
Tigers are like, they don't everything they can go Higris.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Delay there, I'm sorry, I.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Just say, yeah, it's it's rough.

Speaker 5 (39:55):
You know, if you go back, if Alibela gets Kyle
Tucker instead of of Franklin bres Uh, that makes a
big difference, I think.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
But you know, sometimes the crap. J. J.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
Cooper just wrote a whole big article about how most
of the time when you're trading for prospects they to
work out, So I don't.

Speaker 7 (40:14):
Know, Yeah, it's true, although I think the one thing, yeah,
the one thing JJ Cooper left out of that though,
was just kind of the selection biased portion of that,
which is that the reason guys get traded at the deadline,
you know, prospects get traded, is because their teams didn't
believe in them. And the teams that are typically trading
prospects for major league talent are usually the best teams
in the game at making those trades. So I do think,

(40:37):
you know, we should keep keep a little bit of
that in mind. That you know, I mean, like the
Dodgers are going to be right more than you are
and the Rais are going to be right more than
you are, and that that probably skews the sample to
a degree, but it is a it is a good
point that unless you're trading a top prospect, like it's
very rare that you're gonna, you know, completely get hosed
on the deal unless you go trade for you know, nonsense,

(40:58):
like you know, if you're if you're actually going and
getting a good player with team control, you should almost
always do it, unless you're unless they're insisting on Max
Clark or you know, Bryce Rayner and those are guys
that you intend to build around. Yeah, so here we are.
I mean we're kind of just like taking questions. But
this week was always gonna suck guys, like there's just.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
No way around it.

Speaker 7 (41:17):
Like everything I wrote this weekend, I was like, Okay,
I'm dreading this week like this is gonna be awful.
They can go like forty different ways. You know, there's
no probably no right answer. We're just gonna have to
make it through this. And if Scott Harris is the
guy that we think he is and just wants to
build young and and build out of the farm system
and that's kind of the way he's always going to

(41:38):
approach it and rarely ever make any other move, then
he probably does need to collect you know, as much
prospect talent and you know and young controllable talent as
he as he can because they haven't shown really the
willingness to do much else. And then the Framebervell does signing,
you know, like I was just happy to see them
like do something aggressive and go get someone, but it

(42:00):
was still like kind of an odd move for them
after after you know, everything else that they've been refusing
to do in twenty four and twenty five, and then they.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Finally just decided like, oh, we're going to spend right
up to the max.

Speaker 7 (42:11):
And obviously part of that was and no one wanted
to hear this at the time, but we all said it,
like a lot of a lot of us and a
lot of different analysts that they screwed up that arbitration hearing,
and it mattered.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
It wasn't just like a you know, like a whatever,
twelve million dollars, it's not a big deal. Thirteen million dollars.

Speaker 7 (42:29):
It mattered because they were already right up against that
because they thought they were going to win that arbitration
hearing and they did.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
So, yeah, you know, here we are.

Speaker 7 (42:37):
They gotta cut payroll, they gotta they got a restock somehow,
and they don't have to like one hundred percent give
up on the season and just trade like everybody for nothing,
you know, like we traded for like Eric Silva, and
you know, guys like that in twenty twenty four that
you know, like you could look back at that, they're like, oh,
well that didn't work.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
It's ever.

Speaker 7 (42:55):
Yeah, but a lot of those guys weren't supposed to
really work out. You know, they were just they were
just modest, you know, small scale trades. So they don't
need to do that if they want to keep some
of these guys. But yeah, I mean, moves have got
to be made.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
I'll that way. Yeah, I don't know what they're gonna be.

Speaker 6 (43:11):
Yeah, And that's I got purposed Dodger Like, I have
a do like a realistic trade proposal thing that going
on tomorrow, and I'm gonna burnt out my MLB trade
funnel real quick because this is something that Chris and
I I brought out before my contact f and hat
and so I gotta yeah, it's worth mentioning again. I
came up with this because for those who work in
the business side of things or understand how funnels work,

(43:34):
here is the business, here's the here's the the MLB
trade deadline funnel. So those who work at marketing or
however you you know, whatever you you know, do here.
Awareness of exposure the first time a team's been aware
of your brand, product or service. Bregman swing a miss
Leaver Starters in this case, Herek's Google teams begin to

(43:54):
learn about your player and prospect. That's discovery or a
discovery phase right now. Evaluation scots are in the town
tonight because here your player. If your prospects are right
for them, gms connect with your team to learn more
expressed intend to trade the intent. So right now are
we I think we're in the evaluation Maybe they're in
intent stage.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
I'm not sure. Purchase prospects or player convert in the
two point or are above the players contribute to a championship. Lastly,
loyalty prospects or player becomes advocates your brand, products and
services have a great experience drawing bigger and better crowds.

Speaker 6 (44:25):
That, my friends, is his MLB trade deadline funnel. I
created this last year, and yeah, I got a good
time with it, but.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
I figured to share that. Yes, deadly Intudius, thank you.

Speaker 6 (44:36):
My BMW is in the park in the driveway next
to my flintstonevele and the Ghostbusters of nineteen fifty seven Cadillac.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
And it's also the next Optimus is Prime truck. Yeah,
it's right there. They're all they're all in the driveway
right now.

Speaker 7 (44:50):
And as his door knocker on his front door of
his palatial new mansion is a Salona coin.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yeah, and I have you know what I have, Like,
I'm this, I have my dogs ready to go.

Speaker 7 (45:02):
We only accept donations in hyper liquid now, guys, I'm sorry, Yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, I haven't. I have no idea. What the hell
you just said? Right now? I don't know what hyper
liquid means.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
It's just a move.

Speaker 7 (45:11):
It's just a fancy new crypto that allows for like
perp trading and prop betting and IPOs and blah blah
blah and does.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
A better job whatever. We don't need to talk about crypto.

Speaker 7 (45:21):
Yeah, I was gonna say it's a I just saw
Hunter Biden mentioned it the other day and I was laughing.
I was like, yes, hyper liquid, that sounds cool.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, Krypton is a little source subject at Dance's point.

Speaker 6 (45:30):
But anyways, gentlemen, I'll be right back to it as
you guys, as you were, Okay, I mean I think
we've we've beaten this discussion mostly into the ground.

Speaker 5 (45:39):
There's nothing really let's say at this point they.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Need to do.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
I mean, do you think that the Tigers things that
are dumb?

Speaker 7 (45:46):
Yeah, well there you go. Do you think I guess,
let's just try to put it that way. Do you
think the Tigers can get like a blue chip prospect
for Turk School. But right now, like a like a
fifty five on most lists, we're being vague like lists
very teams have their own list. All the qualify, but
I mean if they can't, if they can't get that,
you know, then maybe you do just just hang on

(46:06):
to them.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I do think they should hold out for somebody good
at very least.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know about a fifty five.

Speaker 5 (46:15):
I think you at least can get a top one
hundred prospects it really you know, it always depends on
who is looking and how much competition there is.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
And you know, the.

Speaker 5 (46:25):
Dodgers have those guys coming on their ears, and if
they did want to get into it, I'm pretty sure
you could get one of them.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
But other teams, I don't know.

Speaker 7 (46:32):
But there is a lot of team kind a bunch together,
and you know, kind of in that same realm where
you'd think there should be competition for some of the
top guys at the same time. And I mean we
did get Tyron Lorenzo, who is a top one hundred
guy for Clarity, So.

Speaker 5 (46:50):
Yeah, it's it's certainly possible, and I would think you,
you know, you should get with the number of teams
out there who could use tear pole, which is basically
every playoff team. You should get a very good prospect
and probably another one or two kickers in you know,
mm hmm is interesting.

Speaker 4 (47:05):
But h you got to be able to play the
game right, And I don't know, we haven't really seen that.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, And who's gonna be desperate? Like when I when
I look at like the teams that are in there,
who is who is really desperate? You know?

Speaker 7 (47:15):
Like I could see the Brewers having a bit of
desperation to like try to like make a push, But
they're not desperate.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
You know, They're gonna be good for years to come.
They've got a great farm.

Speaker 7 (47:23):
System, they've got made, they've got Pina, they've got some pitching.
They could certainly make a deal for Terrek's Google and
give it a shot if they wanted to. But the
one guy, our old buddy, mister Dobrowski with his aging
Phillies roster, that does have a good pitching staff. Like
the problem with them is that they don't necessarily need
like a It's not that they need an ace that
that's not really their weak point. But if he wanted

(47:45):
to do something big and and finally try to win. Well,
you know, he's still got Harper and Schwarber doing damage
and being what they're supposed to be. You know, maybe
he does kind of go nuts and give you Miller
and maybe you can get pain or too.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (47:58):
Miller of course, having like a blation surgery and the
nerves in his lower back is.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
A bit of a bit of a red flag. But
I don't know. He's He's had a lot of back issues,
so maybe that solves it.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
I don't know, But no, no back issue guy.

Speaker 6 (48:10):
I'm sorry back every time we've talked about this, but
this has been this has been our trope on the podcast.
Some of its nope, sorry to get it.

Speaker 7 (48:18):
Yeah, well should have moved on for Carpenter for a
while too, those lower back hamstring guys, it just never
seems to get better fair enough.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Yeah, and the coming system isn't good. So yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (48:34):
They have some interesting players.

Speaker 5 (48:35):
You can get Jefforn Rojas, it's an interesting younger shortstop
in Double A. You kind of had it like a
post type prospect. They have Josiah hort Hartshorn is that
right fielder.

Speaker 4 (48:45):
Who's hit for tons of power. But yeah, yeah, it's
it's a matter of what you want, what you're looking for.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
I do.

Speaker 5 (48:52):
I was kind of shocked the other day to see
if Phillies have one of the like like they'll get
top or bottom five offense by w RC plus this year.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, yeah, I was shocked. Told yeah, yeah, we told
me that they are shocked.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
They've had a lot of guys fall off.

Speaker 7 (49:05):
I mean, Trey Turner just disappeared apparently finally, which is
kind of weird. But yeah, you know, some of the
other younger guys that they were depending on haven't really
done that much.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Maybe they could, but they do have a great rotation.
So miss, here's the question of today.

Speaker 7 (49:30):
If you could have Dave Debrowski right back, right now
to take over this this this front office and fire
Scott Harris, would.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
You do it? I don't know that I would either.
I don't really know anymore.

Speaker 7 (49:41):
I want I want someone young and new, but that's
what Scott Harris was supposed to be, so I don't know,
I don't know what I want anymore.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
I you know, I would be prepared for him to
trade most of these young longer guess.

Speaker 5 (49:55):
Did they have it work out and then I would
be prepared for them to not build a good bill
Plain again, like, yeah, he did it in at Boston
and he did it in Philly, but for whatever reason,
it's never happened here.

Speaker 7 (50:05):
You can't do it here despite yeah, the dimensions of
the ballpark, which should make it easier. I mean, I
guess the thing about Kenley and Drew Anderson is that
they strike guys out, and that was like the change
that they tried to, you know, like we're gonna go
get some guys who can get withs and they did.
It's just that with those whiffs have come copious home runs.
So it only works out if you can prevent the

(50:26):
home run.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
You know.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
A portion of events. Where is Brent Herder at get
back Brent another lower back problem?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
No, he's yeah, he's been. I think he's uh.

Speaker 6 (50:36):
I think he's rehabbing right now. He's been throwing off
the mound a little bit, but he hasn't. There's no
timetable for him yet. Interests to mention them. We slay
any injury reports. But I speaking of the injuries, by
the way, I forgot to mention this earlier or resow
this pretty quick because we're running in fifty one minutes.
At this point, Robertal Compost is back after being gone,

(50:57):
says April.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Then as far as Joe.

Speaker 6 (51:02):
Miller's coming back on the reab trail, so he's heading
up to West Michigan.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Should be an erie this week. Arie's gonna play.

Speaker 6 (51:09):
The next two weeks at home, and I think either
this weekend or next week it won't be out there.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Saturday. We have that softball thing, don't we, Chris, that
Saturday celebrity soft alternat thing. Yeah, yeah, we got that
Shlby tell Well it's yeah, you know, I use celebrity
and quotations.

Speaker 6 (51:28):
It's going for a good Vito from the Troy Sports
podcast is getting people together and they're raising money and
it's a really good time. This is the first time
it's out at Shelby Toshap Usually do you you would
the mercy, but going out to East Side Saturday for that.
So it's always a fun, always good time. No, it's
an influencer softball game, ce Buck no hat being the

(51:50):
people and this this in this particular, yeah, this this uh,
this clown always thinks that I'm an influencer, and well.

Speaker 7 (51:58):
It's your BMW dude, Saw the crypto cash.

Speaker 6 (52:03):
I'm a crypto brath. All right, go ahead, Toledo, Toledo
taking care of business against.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
A very like. It was so funny. Chris and I
were making fun of Louisville's lineup.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
It's just no, no, was me? I think it was.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Yeah, you and I were making fun of Alito's line
or Louisville's four A lineup.

Speaker 6 (52:19):
It was just I know, the Tigers can't say much
about that, but man, and then Rickie Flask goes back too.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Is that that's new, right, Chris.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
No, he's been there. He's been there the whole time.
He just hasn't done anything.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Well, I feel like we haven't mentioned him in a while.
My apologies.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, he quickly lost relevance because he went back down
and he was struggling.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
Yeah, okay, yeah, but yeah, it's you know, you did
the bes Park debate, he says, having its typical July
blow up. Okay, so over a thousand this month, a
little bit thing last week. H Yeah, I mean he
looks relatively close. I think if they wanted to call
him up, I think they could justify it.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
We'll see.

Speaker 5 (53:05):
At this point, you are seventeen days away from when
he clears the you know, service time threshold, so you
might as.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Well, wait, yeah, that's fair enough.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
But I don't know, you like, then there's Max Anderson,
who who you know, it's always a tough evaluation for me.
But he's been hitting like crazy since June and he
started walking this month, yeah, which he's never done.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
In his life before. So I don't know what that like,
if they need another bat or if if maybe if labor.

Speaker 7 (53:32):
Goes yeah, I mean, if he trades labor, then it's yeah,
they've got some guys hidden in a.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (53:39):
And the one thing, you know, I've always wanted from
Max Anderson is to be way more selective because he
just swings at everything and he has good hands. He
doesn't strike out a ton, but he didn't do enough
damage as a result, because he's constantly swinging at pitcher's
pitches and putting the ball on the ground and popping
up and stuff.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
And you know, he's on the right track.

Speaker 7 (53:55):
I think now it looks like he's he's finally started
to take that seriously, laying off you know, some pitches
early and counts and waiting for something he can drive.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
And that's kind of all he really needed to do.

Speaker 7 (54:07):
So yeah, you know, if they if they end up
opening up a space for him, then yeah, I assume
you're going to see him because you know in Callahan too,
they're both gonna be on the forty this offseason.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
So yeah, I mean it's they've got a lot of
interesting decisions to make up there. Ian Ian looks like
he's brand new to the chat. Welcome Ian call Clark. Yeah,
there's a like I said, you go to our YouTube page.
We do the calm Up series, and I decided to
bring up the gravel the cavil for that though. It
was a cool graphic to use. Colin and I go
back and forth about that, and yeah, it's a fun

(54:41):
debate because what we do is go to pros and
cons why should why should not? And we also do
for all levels too, So for example, if we wanted
to do one on Peyton Graham going Toledo or not
or whatever the case is, we tend to do those
in the Loser Fund. So you go to our YouTube
page and go to a calm up series. We've done
one in the past. We did one laugh we didn't.
We do one for kinder Montero not too long ago.

(55:01):
So It's kind of ironic because I will say Colins
talk about this today. You guys were the first ones
to really, uh say, Kyner Montero was good.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
It was like, yeah, cool, you know, whatever it.

Speaker 7 (55:13):
Is, what it is.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
But uh, I, well yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (55:17):
One interesting question that's that's coming up with the Hens,
you know, and as far as calling him up, and
this kind of relates to Eerie too, is it's more
important for catchers now to get to the ABS system
and get a chance to like work with that. And
that makes me wonder if if they will call up
at least Lorenzo to triple A, but you know, by
late in the year to at least start getting in
some experience there. They could try Brisanno, but he kind

(55:41):
of just needs to settle in and get the bat
going after the wrist injury. Yeah yeah, And I'll also
mention Tyler Madison hasn't allowed to run since May twenty seven.

Speaker 6 (55:51):
I will mention the mont for we're saying you by
the way his catching set up it's a little different.
But I was talking to have friend of mine who's
telling me that, according to his girlfriend, he's still having
pain in his wrists. So that's why he's been so
he still has a little bit of pain when he's
catching because like some of the set up when he
has it's like he sets to the target very very late.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Yeah, so that it's still resolves in some pain. So
I just wanted to pass that along.

Speaker 7 (56:17):
But uh, I guess that's that's so surprising. You know,
the dude's pumping ninety five at one hundred at you. Yeah,
that you're still gonna have some scar tissue and stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yeah, so sorry, that's true.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Well you have a point there.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Yeah, yeah, what's up, Chris.

Speaker 5 (56:40):
Oh, I say, well, it's Charles grows hard and so
Rodriguez but he's gone, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
It's uh throats kind of hard. Yeah, but whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah, yeah, anybody else you want to highlight Christen.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Yeah, uh uh not so much.

Speaker 5 (57:00):
I mean we did our we did our special video
video on Gilbertiez. I think he's an interesting arm for sure.
But along the lines of the guys that used to
come up to the Tigers and like two thousand and
nine the Brian Villa Reales of the World.

Speaker 7 (57:12):
And I'll just move my Max Anderson, you know, thought
over to Brett Callahan because he's got like a thirty
four percent chase rate or something like that, and that
has to change.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
But yeah, but he deserves time to figure that out.

Speaker 6 (57:25):
Yeah, he's definitely earned it, the right to. I think
he's he's not ready to be called up as yet.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
I mean there's some.

Speaker 6 (57:32):
But yeah, I mean, would he be a guy who
was swinging a miss a lot so he needs a
little of time. I mean he's still relatively new the Toledo.

Speaker 5 (57:40):
So the.

Speaker 6 (57:42):
Yell trade bias, I don't think they would. So Eerie
is one of the few teams in the system that's
in playoff contention right now. They are and Cruise Control
in the Eastern League. Interesting note though about Justice Baby,
So I did looked into his hitting streak. I've seen
if there's anything different a couple of years ago in
his dominated level outside his line drive rate being a

(58:04):
little bit higher. It's the same exact numbers, same exact numbers.
There's nothing. So before you hit all E said about
Justice big B and I mean he's twice six years old,
twenty seven years old in Double A.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
He's what was supposed to do.

Speaker 7 (58:16):
He's always been a good hitter. He just doesn't hit
for much power and doesn't have a position, and that
that's the problem. Like, yeah, he could probably.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Maybe he could go to the major leagues and hit
two fifty, but what are you gonna do with him?
You know?

Speaker 7 (58:26):
Yeah, so yeah, that's that's been his problem all along.
You know, there was big big b hype four years ago,
three or three or four years ago, and it just
never came to pass and he actually ended up getting
demoted to double A and he's still there.

Speaker 6 (58:39):
So then as far as Joe's rehab start, by the way,
thank you for everybody you tuned in to our We
did this around the league, around the around the minor
league system live, so we just checked in a bunch
of games. We had some people that showed up, so
thank you for doing that, and we were checking out
Jackson Joe start. Fastball is pretty good. Got some good

(58:59):
tailing action too. It He was what chrisbout the breaking
balls to bring up the third fourth inning, well his
last two innings.

Speaker 5 (59:05):
Right, yeah, I thought he was basically using everything the
whole time. He just gave up I think it was
a double on a broken bat RBI that the first run,
and then he gave up a rocket that the Jenkins
caught and juggle at first base, and then after that
he completely settled down.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
I think he got the next nine guys out.

Speaker 7 (59:25):
I didn't think the breaking stuff looked real sharp, but
that's not that's not very surprising, you know.

Speaker 6 (59:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (59:30):
I mean he was coming back from Tommy John and
we're all everybody's like depending on him to save the
bullpen and practically at this point and it's like, eh,
this might take a while.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
They said he's he's due for a rehab start up
at Toledo next I believe.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Yeah. He was in Detroit today too, in the dugout
so with the team fun for us.

Speaker 5 (59:47):
After Joe was Andrew Sears, who pitched four scoreless innings
with just one hit.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
Really looking like the guy he was last year. So
that's that's the good development there.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
I don't know a way we'll see him up in
Toledo at some point this year, but you know, I
thought he was doing pretty well in Erie last year.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
I would have been up in Toledo by this point
he stayed healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Yeah, the the change up is getting better too.

Speaker 6 (01:00:08):
It looks like what we've seen there, the change up
is a far superior that it was from Akron even too,
like just from about a month, just a few weeksgo,
have seen him in Acron.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
It seems like he's already he worked quicker at a
quicker pace. Booie.

Speaker 6 (01:00:21):
By the way, we're making a fun of what was
the one hitter that I guess. Also, yeah, Posh apparently lost. Yeah,
Poso looked like he was saying he lost thirty pounds
of like, I don't know about that, but uhat congratulations
Patrick Lee who hit his first two double A home runs,

(01:00:45):
which does I when Chris credit to Chris on that
because when I was like, no, wait, he's been in
Earie before, and then I realized it was only here
in Erie for like a handful of games before he
went back down and was doing all the tour of
the minor leagues again.

Speaker 5 (01:00:57):
So I barely played him and he was up the
last time. It was just like he was there for
emergency purposes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:01:03):
It was one of those like weird, like yeah, weird
promotions that were that is never gonna gonna stick. Petrickally
is so interesting though, I mean, just just a toolsy
monster who uh you know, there's no thought that he's
ever going to hit enough. But he also didn't really
have the normal development pathway, and so doesn't hurt a
bit to keep him at double A and to see

(01:01:24):
if something finally really comes together for him, because he
can throw, he can run, he's got huge power.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
He's fun. He's a very fun minor league player to watch.

Speaker 5 (01:01:33):
It wouldn't shock me if down the road he also
becomes a.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
Pitcher or something like that, right, like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Yeah, he pushed in college too, I remember that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:43):
Mm hmm yeah yeah, oh yeah, boy. The Peoria Chiefs
were an annoying team this week. They Tye Peak was
one man record crew and he didn't even win Player
of the Week with Jet Gerovich one player of the
week because he hit like five home runs type he
hit four and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Yeah, Robin too.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
Yeah, your warning, we're watching Cashkuiper throw up.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Oh yeah, this was in Lakeland. Yeah, that was a
good one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
That's a rough sorry.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
You know, it looks like he pounded a bunch of
like red bull or gator right before the got hitting.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
On the mound, and maybe it wasn't feeling very well
the birthplace obviously.

Speaker 6 (01:02:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:02:25):
Well, anybody who's played baseball, like like you've been there
where you're like out there and all of a sudden,
it's like you're out in the heat, like, wait a minute,
wait a minute, I feel terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Of sudden, I'm gonna die. That's a rough moment.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Yeah, Zach McDonald got his first high a home run,
you know, good for him. I got it was a
bunch of strikeouts at first, which I expected, but he
got the home run out of the way, and uh yeah,
la Sault continues to pitch really well.

Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
It's very encouraging.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Yeah, he's looking good.

Speaker 7 (01:02:53):
Ben Jacobs is finally starting to get some national love,
like you saw, like I think MLB Central m I
LB Central like posted an article about him as well.
Obviously we've all been fairly stoked about him since the
beginning of the year and seeing what he's doing. He's
still been a little home run prone and you know,
like sometimes gets himself into a bad count and makes
a mistake, but he's he's racking up the whiffs at

(01:03:13):
the same time, so that's very encouraging. It feels like
Bryce Rayner And this is why I keep thinking they
might even call Brice Rainer. I'm probably wrong about this,
but it feels like they're pitching around him a lot. Now,
you know, like there's just nobody, you know, there's no
one to really threaten in that lineup really otherwise other
than a little bit of a little bit of hostitch
and you know, Jackson Strong's out, so it just, you know,

(01:03:34):
I don't know, watching it, it just looks like they're
they're just like, we're just gonna jam him and not
let him extend his arms, and we don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
What happens otherwise. So I don't know, he might need
more of a challenge at some point. I'm not sure.

Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
And in general, we don't have any inside information here,
but it does feel like the time of the year
where they might make a fair amount of promotions just
because like so earlier in the year it happened after
the All Star break or a couple of months ago.
But yeah, like you've got the FC guys who are
their season is done, and the new draft picks. Some
of those guys are gonna be ready to play, get

(01:04:04):
their feet wet, so I think we're gonna see Unfortunately,
also means it's cut seasons.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
Some guys are gonna get cut. But I think I
see some people moved up at each level.

Speaker 7 (01:04:13):
It'd be nice to see Yost moved up, because I mean,
we do have angels, They've got Tyson LeBlanc, They've got
guys they could play at Lakeland and you know, yo,
it's just a question to win. His power is gonna
kick in. But he's hitting really well, like looks very
comfortable at that level. You know, he's walking plenty, not
striking out, not with and playing good shortstop kind of

(01:04:34):
kind of right on track for for what we're.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Expecting with him.

Speaker 7 (01:04:37):
It just all comes down to, yeah, like, is he
gonna hook out in two or three years and get
the average power and then we'll.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Be really stoked. I'm gonna make a prediction here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
I'm gonna say, yes, well, I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Make a prediction that I think that Christian Santana gets
cut and we see bull Ankle come up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Yeah it's time.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Yeah, it's time to move on.

Speaker 6 (01:04:57):
And I think that the way they address the draft
the first baseman too kind of to me, he was
right around the wall right there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
As soon as I saw that, I'm like, yeah, I mean,
is it a let Blanc? No, who's the other kids? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:05:13):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah, but one of those regardless, I
think they're gonna trust that pretty quickly and the days
Christian Santana are.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Going to be gone. But esp here, look is he ranked?
Let me ask you guys this. I don't think he
is he ranked on an MLB pipeline at all.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
What the hell?

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Like what?

Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
Okay, Look, I love MLB pipeline. I love Baseball America.
They do, you know, work blah blah blah blah blah.
But I was talking to Jason Pack and they didn't
consult him about the recent list, and he was shocked
about espinolnains some love.

Speaker 7 (01:05:46):
Yeah, because it wasn't that bad a list, Like I
disagreed with a bunch of stuff, but like they had
Coba and like some other guys that I wasn't sure
if they really knew about yet.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
But yeah, I mean, Espin is just a just a
hitting demon.

Speaker 7 (01:05:56):
And I don't know if he's going to develop a
lot of power, but he he's getting on base a ton.
He's hard to strike out, and you know, we'll just
have to see how the catching keeps developing. Like sometimes
he looks like like he's come along back there and
then he'll make like a really you know, he'll.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Have like a game or two where there's like a
lot of mistakes.

Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
But sometimes that's like I'm trying to catch Malachi Witherspoon's monstrous,
uncontrollable stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
So yeah, there are some challenges. There are some challenges
at that level.

Speaker 5 (01:06:23):
I mean, yeah, it's it's always tough when you get
a college guy in low way dominating because you're like, Okay,
this is.

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
He's supposed to do it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:32):
But he's doing it at a level and just from
you know, the eye test, his bat speed seems legit,
his judgment of the strike zone seems legit.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
Yeah, I mean the ultimate question, like for over the
fence power is there, but he's he's probably gonna spray
a lot of line drives. He's faster than you might think,
especially for a catcher. So yeah, I mean he's another
guy that like he could really he deserves to be promoted,
but it might just be a matter of catching right,
getting catching in action as much as possible.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
I don't know if pain is down there with him.
So that's that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:05):
But yeah, he was Player of the Week because he
had a monster week to two different walk off hits
on back to back nights. I think it was a
double and then a home run yep, and you see
the numbers and the way the next night, Yeah, three
home runs and yeah, so in yesterday's game between Jupiter
and Lakeland is probably going to be our game of
the year if we were to do that.

Speaker 6 (01:07:23):
Yeah, that was going to batched a crazy game, like
it was one of those games where yeah, my phone
kept I was working on lawn. Yes straight, all of
a sudden Dan, it was like going off like every
five seconds. At one point, it felt like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
If you didn't see it was a sixteen to fifteen
Lakeland loss.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Yeah, it was chaos.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. They scored eight runs in the seventh inning,
so they were up what fifteen to.

Speaker 5 (01:07:46):
Eight seven, yes, yes, fifteen, fifteen to eight, fifteen to
nine whatever, and then Jupiter scored four in the eighth
and three in the ninth, and Lakeland had chance espinall
was up with tumen On I think they walked him
and then Dubenel I believe ground out in the game.

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
But just a bonkers game, and it's sort of what
you see every now and then in Lowa.

Speaker 7 (01:08:05):
Yeah, and as far as the pitching goes, like, it's
just you know, we've got Salsado back on the mound,
you know, just just getting getting working his way back
into it. Same with Paul Wilson, same with Owen Hall.
Nobody's looked very good other than Salsado, who always looks
good to me. Wet Whiska though, is starting to build up,
and you know, I'm a big fan of him. But
and then we go back to Malachi Witherspoon, who just

(01:08:26):
cannot put you know, outings together with any consistency yet.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
And it'll be interesting to.

Speaker 7 (01:08:30):
See if the Tigers do anything major with him over
the offseason, because they really didn't seem to tinker with
him very much, and he's kind of looked exactly like
he would have been forecast on draft Day, like occasionally
looks great. Stuff is fairly big, but not anywhere near
as effective as it should be because he's not ahead
and makes too many big mistakes. But he does have

(01:08:52):
the stuff, so you know, we'll just we'll just hope
they can kind of get him him sorted out. But
but you know, it's just nice to have the pitching
like back at least and starting to develop. I mean,
Owen Hall and Paul Wilson have not been impressive at all,
but you just need to get them, you know, to
the off season with as many reps as possible and
hope they stay healthy and can get stronger in the
off season and you know, start figuring it out next year.

(01:09:14):
They're both still young. I don't know if Paul Wilson's
even twenty two yet, and yeah, Owen Hall's twenty one,
I think, so, you know, they're just like they'll be
like brand new college draft picks next year and maybe
we'll finally get something out of them.

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
I still like Wilson's stuff, it's just he just still
can't locate the fastball. Locate I mean, like land it
in the zone.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
It's just at all.

Speaker 5 (01:09:37):
Yeah, and Hall stuff, his stuff in command looked pretty rusty.
You just like you said, you hope you're glad he's back.
I will, you know what, Whiska, I'm a big fan,
and I dug into his data a little bit more
because MLB Pipeline or Baseball Subbot, the minor league, it
still hasn't figured out what his change up is.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Yeah, so they're they're like.

Speaker 5 (01:09:59):
Nine percent of them are listed as a sinker because
it's like ninety to ninety two miles an hours. It's
a really hard change up. But I went through and
grabbed every pitch. It's sorted him out on my own.
And when you do that, it like, you know, it
fixes all the pitches. So his fastball's at ninety five
point eight in the changeup, he's got a forty one
percent whip rate on it. Nice, you know, it's a

(01:10:19):
relatively small sample size, and he's got three distinct breaking balls,
although I'm not sure that the cutter and the slider
are different. But he seems to have just started throwing
a curveball too, like a low eighties curveball with like
twenty seven hundred games spin, so it I don't know,
Like he's kind of your We've mentioned this before, but
he's like your future Troy Melton if you could build

(01:10:41):
him properly, Like he's got the pitch mix, he just
needs to refine at all.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
He throws a lot of strikes for a guy who
hasn't pitched a time good athlete, so I'm excited about him.

Speaker 7 (01:10:49):
He has the extension to the Tigers like that, and
he has like riding and cutting action a little bit
on the four steamer pretty often. Yeah, so not really
like a sinker guy. Definitely more of a melt type
like souper andater.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
We still can we still use these terms? Yeah right no, but.

Speaker 6 (01:11:08):
Also you know it's still weird to see these guys
till get these four inning starts, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
I'm just still yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Yeah, lake Lyin. It doesn't matter. They get guys in
the I L.

Speaker 6 (01:11:19):
So I'm interested to see if that's gonna change it
all going forward, if again, meaning a new voice next
year can kind of haul things over was what they have.

Speaker 7 (01:11:27):
But yeah, they've gone all year without a minor league
pitching director, so yeah, maybe maybe they will change their
mind about that with that season.

Speaker 5 (01:11:34):
We didn't even mention, you know, Charlie Christensen's who's been
the best in terms of performance starting pitcher for them
all year.

Speaker 4 (01:11:40):
He went on the IL last week.

Speaker 7 (01:11:42):
So yeah, hopefully it wasn't anything too major and it
didn't really get much of an idea like Marcano was
like holding like his upper arm. Yeah maybe it was
tricep and not elbow or something, but that might be worse,
so I don't know. Yeah, and then yeah, Chris Rodd,
Chris Rodd did some damn just to close out the year.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
That was fun.

Speaker 5 (01:12:02):
Yeah, Roger and I just both did our like our
post post draft top thirty prospect update, and I have
I think I have Chris Rodriguez lower than anybody else
in the planet, which is I love, I love the power.
He's got so many, so much physical talent, but it's
thirty two percent strikeout rate and rookie ball and that

(01:12:22):
just doesn't ever work. It's there's like a handful of
players out of six hundred and fifty that have even
made it to the big leagues after doing that as
an eighteen year old, no, regardless of the age.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Okay, we might need to sort that. I'm just saying, no,
I know it, I know it's I.

Speaker 5 (01:12:40):
Look back first, I'm like, all right, well no, but
like basically your your your one hope is Austin Riley.

Speaker 4 (01:12:46):
He did that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, super risky.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
There is a.

Speaker 6 (01:12:55):
There's a good opportunity though, by the way, that I'm
looking forward to this week coming up with with the
Tigers or excuse me, with the with the minor leagues.
Two is that if you're looking at ahead a little bit,
the I mentioned the Seawells playoff opportunity chances, which would
be there the.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Worst season in a row that would be fifth. Is
that four seasons row?

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
fIF fifth?

Speaker 6 (01:13:20):
Yeah, okay, so yeah, fifth seasons, it would be five
seasons in a row. Or the Eerie Sewells have made
the playoffs and so they're hosting an acron this week.
And again, Uh, the reason why I mentioned this is
because looking at the look at the roster, pitching wise,
have no business being in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
They really don't.

Speaker 6 (01:13:37):
They really really really don't. Five Thank you, thank you
Seabach for that. I appreciate it. Five five seasons in
a row.

Speaker 7 (01:13:44):
So somehow Tony's managed to navigate this with literally nothing,
like we even got Joe Miller like looking good and
then even he got hurt. So yeah, but at least
Andrew Sears is back. They've got that, they've got. Miller
has been okay, album has been okay here and there.
But yeah, definitely not real inspiring inspiring as far as like, yeah,

(01:14:05):
prospect wise.

Speaker 6 (01:14:06):
So if you're part of our paid tiers of our
Patreon Chris and I, you can find that list of
the articles that Chris and I I did. My top
thirty Chris did is top thirty and you can check
out the differences. Yeah, there's some similar Chris and I
had twenty four the same guys, so but yeah, oh
oh they're nice there there you go, Thank you, Cole.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
I appreciate that that show literallyisted before me. Yeah, it's yeah,
you know, it was funny.

Speaker 5 (01:14:35):
You know, I deliberately didn't look at Roger's list, and
he obviously didn't see mine because I did mine afterward.
And we like to do that just to see like
where we are, and it's pretty close for the most part.
There are a few people where, you know, we just
have different ideas but in different ranks. But it's I
don't know, it's a I don't know what to say
really that the system still has a fair amount of

(01:14:56):
interesting depth, but it's that the ceilings aren't really there
beyond the top couple.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
I love I am loving Michael Olivetto, though I don't
know how.

Speaker 7 (01:15:08):
You guys feel about him, but I actually think he's
been he's been rather underrated. Obviously there's still questions about
whether or not he can really catch and that then
that's part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
But I kind of love the bat, so yeah, yeah, yeah,
we'll see how you know, we'll have to see how
that plays out.

Speaker 7 (01:15:22):
But seeing some you know, some better international free agents
come through and like a little more like depth from
that side as well encourages me. I still think it's
it's probably like a very middle system, Like I think
you could put it tenth or eleventh, and if you
had it like eighteenth nineteenth. You know, I'm not gonna
not gonna quibble, But I do think that's the way

(01:15:42):
to go as far as as like you don't want
a group think it first. You want everybody to like
think it out for themselves and then have the argument
and and and kind of forge the complete list from there.

Speaker 6 (01:15:53):
Yeah, And that's exactly like that's the why we do
it the way we do because it to me, for example,
my so if I'm looking at it, Chris is top.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Thirty real quick. I mean, I think it's just worth
mentioning that I'm very weird about.

Speaker 6 (01:16:06):
Until I see some of these draft guys, Like I
understand why they are what they are and I get it,
but for me, I have to really kind of take
a look at him. My top four or my top
five are Clark, Rainer, Rasgo, Callahan, and Fluki. And I
know people will I'm sure people are like, why you know,
Callahan over Fluki. I haven't seen fully pitch that much,

(01:16:28):
but the potential there, you know, I get it. It
sounds like I have all of a little at eleven.
You words, you have a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:16:35):
Actually, I actually dropped al of Itto because of the
defensive questions. You know that you had that game where
you give up twelve steals and there's a little bit
too much ground ball contact. Now you can come out
of that, and I like it swaying. I think it
will produce more contact in the air, and he pulls
it naturally and he walked more than he struck out.
There's a lot to light there. But I just worry

(01:16:56):
from this round. I kind of went with like, Okay,
what if if this doesn't work out, then you or
first baseman.

Speaker 7 (01:17:01):
Yeah, that's kind of what I think, is that first
baseman maybe maybe out maybe corner outfielder maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:17:08):
So I was a little bit like I dropped him,
but again, like there's things I like about him. I
just I was trying to like I dropped Loronzo I
think four or five, and then I moved Valencia up
four or five because you know what, like we've seen Valencia,
he seems like he can hit big league pitching, maybe
not consistently, but he didn't, you know, he quit it
himself pretty well on that tamal sample size. And he
can theoretically play catcher. You can put the gear on

(01:17:29):
and get back there, which is about the case, but
if you're not good at it.

Speaker 7 (01:17:32):
Yeah, Whereas for me, like Lorenzo has gotten so much
better to me behind the plate over the last year
that that that really kind of supports the fact that
the bat is not coming along, you know, And so
I don't really changed my view on him, just like
my just like my total view on the player has changed,
but I still am kind of great and him the same.
I still think he's like forty five solid maybe plus

(01:17:56):
in some in some in some respects if you believe
that developed more slowly with the bat, and that if
he has more time, maybe he'll figure it out. But
he also might need to get traded to the Dodgers
again to to access all that, or the Brewers.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Maybe even maybe even better.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Top ten, I have them top ten, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:18:15):
I think I have nine through eleventh.

Speaker 5 (01:18:16):
I don't remember what it was, but yeah, it's it's
really easy to fall in love with the potential, like
double plus power from both sides of the plate and
being able to catch.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
I did say on defense, he drops the ball on an.

Speaker 5 (01:18:29):
Exchange when trying to throw a guy out at second
more than anyone I've ever seen.

Speaker 4 (01:18:33):
If it's hands right, I don't really know what it is.

Speaker 5 (01:18:38):
When he does make the throw, they're usually really hard
and pretty good. He's got a very strong arm. It's
just like there's little aspects of the game. I'm like,
what's the deal with that?

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Yeah? Why, well?

Speaker 7 (01:18:47):
The drops The drops thing has kind of been going
on too for a couple of years. I mean, it
is weird because I do think his framing's gotten significantly
better and is blocking too, But he does just have
a weird affinity for just throwing the ball away when
he tries to transfer.

Speaker 5 (01:19:01):
I don't know, but yeah, we'll say that this is
the miners, right, None of these guys are finished products.

Speaker 4 (01:19:05):
So do we do our best and we have our
opinions and we'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Yeah, absolutely, and we'll keep you posted.

Speaker 6 (01:19:12):
Like I said, next week, trade the trade trade deadline specials,
so it might be going on a little earlier than normal,
although the Tigers are off that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
Monday, aren't they.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Yeah, everybody. Yeah, they turned it into a big old event.

Speaker 7 (01:19:24):
So yeah, maybe we should maybe we should start at
like five or six or whenever.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
He guys can the earliest.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
Yeah, we could do an early show.

Speaker 6 (01:19:31):
By the way, the Troy Crypto man, Yes, I think
some of the signs are gonna play this year.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
To answer your question.

Speaker 7 (01:19:35):
Real quick, yeah, I think LeBlanc and yeah, you know,
like some of those guys will do you guys think
flukeeal pitch because he didn't didn't pitch.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
A lot this year.

Speaker 5 (01:19:44):
I think there's an outside chance he will. You might
get like three three inning outings from him or something
along those lines.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
And probably I.

Speaker 5 (01:19:53):
Think we could see We could see LeBlanc, we could
see Maloney, we could see Ballenger.

Speaker 4 (01:19:59):
Maybe even Tyler West will be kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Yeah, yeah, I would like to see Tyler with Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
They're doing they're currently doing the camp right now.

Speaker 7 (01:20:05):
But they can also just put those guys in whatever
they call it now, a bridge League or whatever, just
like just just backfield games and and just let them
get some experience in the area.

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:20:15):
So yeah, trade line dead deadline special after six oh one,
so we'll be going on right after the trade deadline,
So come tune in next Monday. What is the metrics
will be on Thursday, like to tune in with those folks, Ashley,
Mike and youper. I think I have softball again. Yeah,
I have softball again. So I will not be able
to make it, but Monday, Monday night, trade trade deadline special,

(01:20:39):
so we'll be breaking maybe a big.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
One the way.

Speaker 6 (01:20:42):
We bring down a lot of prospects, so it might
be a lot of video. So we'll be live streaming
immediately after the deadline. So six oh one join us
next week and uh yeah, we'll have another news I'll
have a newsletter going out in the morning, so we'll
talk about the Tigers.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
And again for those who are new to the show.

Speaker 6 (01:21:00):
We talk all levels, just just saying it's just you
know that the Tiger's mL report saying but yeah, anyway,
have yourself good night, Say classie everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
H mm hmmmmmmmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
I love I love doing it a little

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