March 30, 2021 • 39 mins
LeBron James led a so-so team into the Finals during the regular season, but Kobe Bryant, by the measure of most, including Coach Mike Krzyzewski, is the league’s best player. So when Mamba joins the Redeem Team in the summer of 2007, which one is really in charge on the court? Starring Chris Bosh, Phil Jackson, Anthony Carmelo, Deron Williams, Coach K, Jason Kidd.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Dream Team Tapes Season two. Kobe, Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:27):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know, to
be in this position now to here, we don't represent
our country man, especially special Lebron James. We look for
(00:47):
the opportunity the weekend on athamall being the best in
the world. I guess the Redeem Team is as it
is right, We're the best team in the world. We're
the best team in the world where we put basketball
America basketball wheat. Which is that time? Welcome to the
(01:19):
Kobe Lebron and the Radeem Team podcast on Ja Donde
and we're calling this episode Lucky Seven's and most of
the action will be described and takes play in Las Vegas.
Lucky A Lady Tonight, etcetera, and all that and all
of the action takes place in two thousand seven. The
NBA All Star Game was in Vegas that year, and
so was Temo Says training camp and the FIBA America's Tournament.
(01:41):
It's originally supposed to be in Venezuela. We'll get to
the story behind that later. They were important breakthrough moments
for Kobe Bryan and Lebron James individually in two thousand
and seven, and then they came together that summer to
play a teammates for the first time. But the story
starts at All Star Weekend in February, and in season
one of the Dream Team tapes, Jack McCallum told us
(02:02):
about the lengths he would go to an avoid writing
about All Star Games, and Jack, you were willing to
jump through the logistical hoops of gathering Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson,
Charles Barkley, Patrick Doing, and Karl Malone for a photo
shoot for the Sports Illustrated Famous cover photo shoot. You'd
rather do all that than recap the All Star Game
in Charlotte that year? Did you really despise covering All
Star Games that much? First of all, don't be giving
(02:24):
away all my professional secrets. J. That's that wasn't very nice.
The thing I remember most about All Star Weekends to
give you an idea what the game meant to me,
was that one of my Favorites was six, the first
year they did the three point shot contest. I mean
by then we had seen a lot of unbelievable dunks.
(02:44):
I mean you went back to the A B A dunks.
You know, they were as spectacular as anything. But I
remember that first shooting contest when Bird, you know it,
comes out and doesn't remove his warm up jacket. The
problem with it was was that when you write first
Barts illustrated, You're always supposed to be looking at some angle,
some sort of thing that would propel you to forward.
(03:07):
And with the All Star Game, you couldn't really get that.
And I'm talking about an arrow when some of the
All Star games were pretty good. So it was just
very hard to find an angle. The moment the weekend
was over, the game was over, you went back to
the regular season, and it just seemed this kind of
anomaly that was very difficult to write about. But I
(03:29):
was there for everyone, uh from tip off until the
final and was even reasonably non hungover when the tip
off went off. Congratulations. Well, the parties were always the
best part of All Star Weekend, but I always felt
the All Star weekends and even the All Star Games
could be viewed as a referendum on the state of
the NBA if if you really took a step back
(03:50):
and looked at it that way. And in two thousand seven,
Kobe clearly approached it as a way to climb back
to the top of the league and to regain his
good standing in the public eye. So remember, after the
two thousand three sexual assault allegation, he lost endorsement deals
with sponsors like McDonald's and Nutella. Now, Nike stuck with
him the whole time, but they weren't exactly emphasizing him. Uh,
(04:12):
they kept him on the roster, but he wasn't at
the forefront. But at the two thousand and seven All
Star weekend, Kobe is doing promotional events for the Sony
PlayStation and the NBA O seven video game, and that
was his first new sponsor since the case against him
was dropped in two thousand four, and the NBA was
embracing him as well. Formally, he was one of the
past Dunk Contest winners that they brought back to serve
(04:33):
as a judge for the Dunk Contest, So he was
sitting there along with Michael Jordan and Dominique Wilkins. Michael
was hating by the way, he refused to give up
tens to anybody. The lowest score for every dunk was
Michael Jordan's. He was in full hater mode. And then
comes the game on Sunday night, and everybody else played
like exactly what you'd expect people have spent their previous
(04:54):
four day hours in Las Vegas to play like, but
not Kobe. He's picking guys up at half of court,
he's saving ball from going out of bounds. He had
thirty one points and get this, Jack six steals in
this game and Kobe is actually the all time steals
leader in the All Star Game. That tells you how
seriously he takes it. And to hear Carmelo Anthony tell
it that performance in two thousand seven was all predestined.
(05:18):
Even being there, you felt it like he would tell you, like, Yo,
I'm going forward tonight. You know what I'm saying Like
he was, he was telling people, I'm going forward tonight.
I'm locked in. And so the people that know him
have been a rhyming know's environments. When he get that
that aura that you know, it's almost like Bruce Leebroy
when you get the glow. When when he gets that
(05:40):
and you start looking in his eyes, and he started
getting his look you know what type of night is
gonna be? And he had that, he had it. He
would just say, I'm going forward. I'm going forward. I
like that Bruce Leroy reference from Carmelo, a hint to
the eighties movies The Last Dragon. And since Carmelo was
Kobe's teammate on the Western Conference squad back when they
still divided all Star teams by conference, he had a
(06:02):
warning beforehand. But Chris Boss was unprepared. He was playing
for the East. He had no idea what was coming,
but it didn't take him long to see what was
happening at first, Like, man, what the hell's it doing?
Oh yeah, a star m VP. Yeah he's going for
boys and he's gonna get it because it was a blowout.
But I mean, yeah, he was there. He was playing hard.
I do I do remember that. Man, he was playing
(06:27):
so hard you know for a guy like me. I'm
the young dude, My family is there. I just want
to get a couple of dunks be in the game.
It's not for bigs, you know what I'm saying. And
I'm you know, he's just you know, the guard lays
down on a screen and roll or I so, and
we're the one. You know, I'm a big and Kobe's
(06:47):
coming at me full speed. I'm like, man, this is crazy.
He's really moving fast. I get offensive rebounds and all
that stuff. It was it was pretty fun that that
taught me how Bordner was, you know. I'm just like, yeah,
everybody is just you know, just kind of out here
for ships and giggles, and they'll play the game there there.
(07:09):
They put your name in the paper for these things,
you know, and especially if you uh, if you're trying, uh,
you know, to make a comeback. And man, hell yeah,
I couldn't even fathom that stuff. I couldn't even fathom
the pressure he was putting on himself to even do that.
So Kobe wins the All Star Game m v P,
and this time he's cheered when he holds up the trophy,
(07:31):
unlike in two thousand two when he won the All
Star m v P in his hometown at Philadelphia and
the fans booed him, that's your town, Jack, explaining what
your people were doing. Well, that's kind of my talent.
I've always lived. I was born just south of Philadelphia. Now,
I lived just north of Philadelphia, but I did work
there for a while, so okay, I'll claim to be
(07:51):
a Philly guy. You know, the relationship j was interesting
and and Kobe was I remember that Kobe was very surprised,
uh and even you know, a little bit hurt. And
I think there's a couple of reason. Number one, it's Philly,
so I kind of they booed Beyonce at the NBA
Finals the year before and Destiny's Child, and I know
(08:12):
they talked about Philly Bowe and Santa Claus. How do
you boot Beyonce? I mean, I will defend Philly fans
a little bit more than most people, but it is Philly,
so it's kind of what we do. Number two, Kobe
wasn't a true, true Philly guy. You know. He wasn't
from Roman Catholic, he wasn't from Overbrook. He was out
there in the bourbs, you know, at at Lower Marriott.
(08:33):
Number three, Before I give the final reason, let me
ask you something you would know better than I would.
Was Kobe a teetotaler? Like? Did he not party at
all during these weekends in Vegas and stuff? I don't
really know. I never had cocktails with him or anything.
So I don't know the answer to that was he
(08:53):
he didn't see him out. Yeah, and I actually had
drinks with them much much later, including I think one
of the as USA teams a times in in Vegas
when they had training camps in Vegas. But at that stage, no,
I had never had a drink or seen Kobe out drinking.
You know that has something to do with his All
Star appearances. But I think the final reason Jay was
(09:15):
that this time we're talking about two thousand two, that
was in the middle of the AI Philly honeymoon. I mean,
he had taken them AI had taken them to the
finals a year before one that memorable Game one in
l A. We all knew, okay, it's probably gonna win
four in a row after that, but AI kicked their
ass in Game one, and A I was the m
(09:36):
v P of the All Star Game and oh one
had a great game down in Washington. I think people
were looking at hey, let's get two in a row.
He's our guy. He's on the other team with Kobe,
so in in retrospect, I guess it's pretty natural that
he got booed. However, Kobe was disappointed. You know, and
he was a little bit hurt if you look at
the YouTube films of that, and uh, he went out
(10:00):
and showed I'll show you how I play when I'm
hurt and went out there and as he usually did,
you know, took no prisoners. Kobe did still have love
from the fans on the West Coast, and Vegas is
kind of like Lakers secondary market. Remember they used to
play regular season games up there and they still play
preseason games there and Vegas bands love Kobe. But talking
(10:24):
to the players after that All Star Game in OH seven,
I just remember they didn't seem particularly close to him.
I talked to Iris and Ray Allen. They just didn't
know him that well still, and they were, okay, good
for him. He won the m v P. He wanted
that bad. If he wants it, he can have it.
The attitude was more like they had to respect him
as a grudging respect. It wasn't love, but there was
(10:46):
grudging respect for Kobe. Yeah. I think that feeds into
that We've alluded to it before. J that kind of
he just wasn't one of the guys. And I'm talking about,
you know, covering All Star games back in the eighties
when players really really wanted that to be m v
P of the All Star Game. That was really really important.
And Okay, did they play defense like the regular season? No,
(11:08):
All Star games have always been high scoring affairs. You know,
they weren't double teaming the post and doing all the
pat Riley you know, Hubi Brown, you know defenses. But
they still played their butts off. But it just had
to do with that lone wolf aspect of of Kobe.
And later in that season in the playoffs, one of
(11:29):
the guys that really earned the respect of that year
was Lebron. It was the year of his memorable forty
eight special, which followed hard upon the Danielle Marshall game
when he apparently committed the egregious, unforgivable sin of instead
of driving to the basket for the final play, passed
off to a wide open uh Danielle Marshall in the corner,
(11:51):
who wasn't known as a three point specialist. Danielle Marshall lived,
Mr Shot. Everybody went, my god, the Lebron's not a game. Well,
he went on to be quite a gamer in that
series against the Pistons, and if you look at that series,
it's one of the most incredible scoring explosions of all time.
They're playing the Pistons with too forty nine left at regulation.
(12:14):
Drew Gooden makes a free throw that cuts the Pistons
lead to four points. They eventually play three more minutes.
Of that twelve minutes of overtime, nobody scores another point
for Cleveland except for Lebron James. They let him shoot
from the outside. He starts making threes. They said, oh, hell,
(12:36):
we gotta go out and cover him. He gets to
the basket and makes a dunk. And when it was
all over and they had beaten the Pistons, they then
beat him in the climactic game. The league had a
little bit of a change. And I remember that summer.
You know, people would say, for the first time, hey Jack,
if you could pick Kobe or Lebron, who would you take.
(12:59):
And I still remember going, well, if you're asking me
this year, I guess I would still take Kobe. But
if you asked me next year, I think it's gonna
be Lebron. Yeah, it's starting to happen, and it's starting
to become a legitimate conversation. And this was just a
fantastic performance. Marv Albert called that game for Turner. He
(13:21):
called it one of the best playoff performances he'd ever seen.
And when Marv Albert says that, coming from all the
playoff performances he's witnessed, that is incredible praise. And it's
indicative of the type of attention and the type of
love that Lebron is starting to get at that moment.
And I really think Kobe was envious of Lebron getting
(13:42):
all this attention. And it's no coincidence in my mind
that in the middle of these playoffs, in the middle
of that series, Kobe goes on Stephen A. Smith radio
show and says he wants to be traded the Lakers.
Remember coming up, Kobe's out of the playoffs. He's been
eliminated in the first round for of the second year
in a row by the Phoenix Suns, and they're regressing.
(14:03):
It took seven games the year before. This year in
two thousand and seven, he's out in five games and
he's grumbling that night. He pulled me aside and he's
talking about, you know, this ship has to change. He's
unhappy with the supporting cast that he has there. They
need to do something about it. And it's just lingering
and festering in him, and then here's Lebron getting all
this attention and it just spills out on all these
(14:25):
radio interviews that he's doing that summer in that spring,
so Kobe wants to be traded, and that all leads
to a big meeting that offseason that Phil Jackson described
to us. He was like, I don't know if we
can go forward without making some dramatic changes, and he said, uh,
I'm gonna have to do it. So he picked up
(14:46):
the ball an email with Dr Bus a Barcelona, and
then he came back to California. So I was kind
of there as the mediator. There was Dr Bus and
there was Jimmy Bus and Mitch Cup checking. On the
other side was Rob Blinka and Kobe, and I could
(15:08):
sit in between and kind of my moderate Whatever I
could talk about is, you know, the effectiveness, And eventually
Kobe came out down to reasoning and going forward, even
those very different I think we we actually got down there,
(15:28):
even having some names that were on the board, and
Dr Buzz said something to the effect if I had
a five carrot ring and our diamond, he should didn't
say ring a diamond, and someone suggested that I break
it up and make one carrot diamonds out of the
five carrot diamonds. That wouldn't be smart with it. Something
(15:51):
to that effect. He said, the five carrot diamond is
much more valuable than five one caret diamonds. And that's
how I feel about you Cook. And with that jewelry analogy,
Kobe was destined to remain a Laker. It took a
little while, but eventually not only did he stay, he
winds up winning the MVP the next season. But it's
pretty amazing to think that all this dissension and turmoil
(16:12):
with the Lakers is playing out that same summer that
there USA basketball team is training and playing to qualify
for the Olympics. Yea, Kobe always seemed to be one
of those guys that that ascribed to the theory that
creative tension was best. You know, that you couldn't if
things were too calm. Uh, you know, it just didn't work.
(16:33):
But one thing he didn't have to worry about was
the roster with the USA Basketball that they had compiled.
I mean, beside the you know, Carmelo, Kobe himself being
on it. Lebron Jay kidd, Uh you know, they had
some other Darren Williams, he had some other guys that summer,
one of the main ones being Chauncey Billups And I
was always a fan of Jauncy's game. I just thought Chauncey,
(16:57):
you know, really walked that line. He was kind of
up combo guard at the same time. He was kind
of a combo style guy. He was sort of a
you know, an urban player. You could see him in
Rucker Park, but you could also see him, you know,
dribbling the ball and taking the time and doing kind
of a magic Johnson let's calm down and everything. And
he was on that team, and he's one of the
(17:19):
guys who's uh games I really respected. And And here's
what Darren Williams, who was at the time kind of
a younger player, here's what he thought the first time
he saw that team assemble when we got together, and
I was like looked that. I was looking at like
the lineup, and I was just like, man, this is uh,
it's a pretty good team. I don't see anybody beating us. Honestly,
(17:43):
that's that was my first name. Just I didn't see
anybody beating us. How do you then fight off the overconfidence,
right that that could be a dangerous attitude to come into.
I don't think while I while I felt like I
didn't see anybody beating us, that didn't it wasn't It
wasn't cockiness. It wasn't it was kind of cockiness, I think,
(18:03):
but it was you know, it was just at the
same time, we just we had a goal when you
put that much talent in the room, with that, you know,
with some of the hardest workers in the game. Uh
was some of the best leaders in the game, with
one of the best coaches that's ever coached the game.
And the coaching staff was an unbelievable coaching staff behind
(18:24):
Coach K. Because it wasn't just Coach K. I mean,
we had we had a great coaching staff and so
all those things together, great leadership from the top from
Jerry Colangelo. You know, I just didn't see us losing.
Keep in mind they had lost to Greece in the
World Championships the year before, and Lebron Carmelo and Dwight
Howard were the key players from that OH. Six team
who were back in OH seven Chris Bosh and Dwayne
(18:47):
Wade round OH six team and they're in Vegas in
the summer of O seven, but they're injured, so they're
not on the active roster. But Boss was there and
he told us the most noticeable difference was having Kobe
on the court. Yeah, I mean, um, Kobe is playing.
Kobe is here. You know it's and you know you
(19:07):
have to even though you play against him. He he
has an aura. So when you know he walked in
the room, you're you know, everything stops. I didn't play
in over seven. I was there, but I didn't play.
I have planning fashitists, which made me a little nervous
as far as making the team. But I didn't get
those those experiences in the game with Kobe at that point.
(19:28):
But just being a spectator and watching him and Jason Kidd.
I'll be on the bench and in practice, you know,
Jason Kidd throws the past to Kobe and he goes
right by his face because he didn't know he was open.
So they had that chemistry that they were working out
getting used to each other. And I mean Kobe, he
was um, he was always a serious person. You know,
(19:49):
he was always very very uh meticulous about basketball. So
anytime he's playing basketball serious, like every single time, so
that definitely um changed the narrative a bit. And we
we were unsuccessful in the last minute, So it's not
panic or anything like that, but it's definitely like, Yo,
we gotta we gotta get better. You know, we have
(20:10):
to do better. You're listening to Kobe Lebron and the
redeem Team will be back in a minute. I always
wondered what it was like for those, you know, a
guy like Jim Beheim by that time had been around
the game for fifty years and he was one of
the assistants, And I always wondered what it was like
(20:33):
for those guys that have complete command over their team,
you know that their their rule is uh is absolute,
and then they come in and and meet up with
a guy like Kobe and Lebron, who are basically the bosses,
you know, of their own team. And I think Beheim
probably one of these guys that didn't love Kobe to
(20:56):
begin with, but boy, he certainly developed a a grudging
respect and admiration for the guy. And here's what he
had to say about Kobe coming in. Kobe really changed
the whole focus of the team. He came in. I
remember he came in, he worked out in the morning,
he came to them and worked out at night, came
to practice and just attacked everybody, just literally literally attacked
(21:21):
whoever he was guarding. You know, And I've never been
around Kobe other than the state he lo to him,
but he attacked everybody in that first couple of days
of practice. And then it was a matter of would
it be a fair fight? So if he's attacking everybody,
are the people on the other side of the scrimmage
is going to have the weapons and the wherewithal to
be able to go back at him. And of course
(21:42):
the best way to assure that was to put Lebron
on the other team. And if you wanted that creative
tension that you talked about, Jack, I'd say it goes
beyond just creative tension. But if you if you wanted
that competitive desire to come out into practice, you definitely
separate Kobe and Lebron and have them go at it
in the quest for supremacy of the team in the league.
(22:04):
And to me, it seems similar and you can tell
me because you were there with this dream team, but
it seems like a similar dynamic to Michael Jordan's magic
Johnson Duking out for supremacy on the Dream Team. But
the difference that I see is that Magic. You know,
Magic hadn't even played the year before, he had announced
his retirement with HIV, whereas Kobe is in his prime.
(22:27):
He's twenty seven in the summer of two thousand and seven.
He turns twenty eight in August, and he just led
the NBA in scoring for the past two seasons, as
opposed to Magic coming off an All Star appearance, that
memorable All Star Game in Orlando, but that was it
for him in season. Yeah, I would pay, and sports
writers don't pay for very much. I would have paid
(22:50):
a lot of money to watch a Kobe Lebron one
on one game right about then, I I don't I
couldn't even begin to tell you who would have won.
But I can tell you a Michael Magic game, who
would have won fifty and nothing? Maybe so but the
(23:10):
but the in its own way, though, ja the Magic
Michael thing, the relationship was almost as interesting in a
ceremonial kind of way. And there what they were dueling
about was whose league is it? You know? And the
one thing Magic it was the most a one of
(23:31):
the most unselfish guys who ever played the game. But
Magic had this idea of the proprietary thing, that this
was still my league and it was still Larry's league.
Bird gave up that long ago, and it could have
been during the playoffs, you know, uh, six years before
(23:53):
the Dream Team when Michael went for what was it
sixty three and forty eight in Boston Garden. But Magic
held onto that and it was very much of a
ceremonial argument until he finally said, uh, now, okay, I
gotta admit, I hear you, this is now Michael's Michael's
leg And it wasn't the same thing for Kobe and Lebron.
(24:16):
I mean, I if you would have asked whose league
it was, then you could have probably got a pretty
even vote on that, I would imagine. Yeah. And and
like that Dream Team was the passing of the torch,
and you described it that way in your chronicling of
that team. So the torches officially passed probably after that
that infamous scrimmage. And there's no torch passing here. They're
(24:39):
they're fighting for the torch when Kobe Lebron are going
at it. And Jason Kidd said, uh, you know when
when they're on separate teams in the scrimmage, you knew
it was going to be a battle. It was that
competitive nature. I think Kobe would have won one on
one game between the two of them because he was
the better one on one player. Lebron was more pass
oriented player. Hope. We never spent much time looking for
(25:01):
the open guy. That wasn't That was Let's It was shock,
you know, shock at the shock at the rim he
found him. He was a good passer and could pass,
but yeah, that that wasn't his thing, that that wasn't
his mindset necessarily. But also Lebron wasn't as good an
outside shooter. That was something that he developed. And even
that year in the finals, one of the reasons they
(25:22):
got swept by the Spurs was the spurs defensive strategy
was to basically give Lebron that eighteen to shot and
he couldn't make them pay often enough to do that.
And it used to be the difference around that time,
I think was that Kobe could lay off Lebron a
little bit if he's guarding him. Lebron couldn't lay off Kobe.
Now fast forward a few years, you can't afford to
(25:43):
lay off Lebron anymore. Complete game. Now he can pull
up from the logo at near half court and make threes,
but he couldn't back then, and so that was one
of the reasons I think Kobe still had the edge
back then. But you know, as much as they were
maybe competing with each other, Coach k knew that it
was essential for Lebron and Kobe to co exist for
(26:04):
this team to work and their own individual teams. They're
exalted to be the one or two superstars on the team,
but we could not have that. And that's where the
relationship between Kobe and Lebron really became the centerpiece of
of that foundation of that building. And those two guys
were magnificent and how they brought it together. And so
(26:28):
at that point, Coach k had a little more history
with Lebron than he did with Kobe, since they had
gone through that humbling loss to Greece together in two
thousand and six, and Shoki actually went to Akron, Ohio
to meet with Lebron and to get his feedback on
some of the new players who were joining the team
in two thousand seven. You know, like all of us,
me too, we had a lot of growing up to
(26:48):
do for international or otherwise, and so we learned from
some of the mistakes that were made. And I said,
I want to bring these three guys in and he
I said, how do you feel about it? Because I
don't know some of those guys might feel no one's
as good as them, you know. And uh so, he
(27:09):
this is a true start, that's all true. He said, Well,
Jake Kidd is the best passer in the n B
A I can really pass two. I can learn from him.
And at that time, Kobe was the best player in
the NBA. And he didn't say that, but he did say,
(27:31):
nobody prepares like Kobe. I can learn from that. And
Chauncy is really smart. And on every meeting that we
had with that team, Lebron sat next to Jake Kidd
and almost every night. People don't realize how much extra
these guys do. Jason and Lebron went to shoot together
(27:54):
and they weren't I call it when I speak to you,
sharing best practices. And how would they have ever shared
best practices if they had not come together and be willing,
since they owned the same thing, be willing to share
that that stuff. And it's at the end of the day,
(28:16):
it was beautiful, really and I give so much credit
to those guys you're listening to Kobe Lebron and the
redeem Team will be back in a minute now. Jason
Kidd and Lebron, who are sort of the two sides
(28:38):
of you know, the veteran leader and the kind of
coming leader, they got very close, and so close that
Jason even became intimately familiar with Lebron's preferred alcoholic beverage,
which I would not have guessed, but here it is, well,
um understanding. I had to get used to drinking strawberry
(28:58):
Jacaris with Lebron, and I was number one. Um. I
think we set a record in Vegas of drinking strawberry decoras.
But it wasn't all about drinks by the pool at
the Wind Hotel. Kid delivered an important message at the
outset of that summer season. I was self spoken, but
I thought, you know, starting the meeting off by saying,
(29:19):
can we be on time? You know, because we don't
want to sit here and wait for someone, because that
will start to chip away at the foundation of the
team will start to click. We'll start to say negative
things about one another, and and all of a sudden
it falls apart. So um, I always thought if a team,
all star team could come together and be on time,
I thought, one that's respectful to the coaches and also
(29:41):
to each other, and sometimes that's overlooked. And that's kind
of how I wanted to start the meeting. Again. I
didn't yell at out um, I knew my place, but
I thought if we could start on time, that would
help coach k and I also would help with the team.
So it feels like Kid was the camp counselor that summer,
but it was really important that rather than Kobe or
Lebron fighting over the leadership role, Kid could sort of
(30:04):
step in as a third party and take on that position. Well,
I think one trust UM. I think they all felt
um that I played at a high level, that I
was about winning UM and playing the game the right way.
And uh, I think they trusted, you know that what
I said or was gonna do, was gonna was gonna
(30:25):
help them, wasn't gonna mislead them. And uh, that's a
big thing when you talk about that that group of brothers,
brotherhood of being honest and trying to help from past experiences.
So I think it was just a trust and they
knew that I was not trying to infringe on on
(30:45):
their their territory or take the territory. I was there
just I was Switzerland. I was just there to help.
Kobe was not Switzerland. Kobe was more of the UH.
Kobe was the the British Empire or the Soviets in
the fifties. He was a little bit more acquisitive. But
I thought that was an interesting historical reference. By the
way by J Kidd and UH Coach k could tell
(31:07):
the players were still eyeing Kobe, still looking at him
kind of warily, wanted to know what he was willing
to give up for the sake of the team, and
he got a preview of that even before they started practicing.
Two days before we started the meeting, you know, for
that team, we were in Vegas as a staff and
(31:28):
we uh, we're planning, and all of a sudden knock
on the door and it's Kobe. He's there two days early.
And again I'm not embellishing this at all. He said, Coach,
I'd like to talk to you for a little bit.
So we went to another place and he said, I
need for you to do me a favor, and I said,
(31:50):
of course, what's the favor? He said, I want to
guard the best perimeter player of every team that we play.
And then he paused, and you know his eyes where
he and Jordan's. No one really has had those eyes
those two guys. Maybe Bird a little bit, Yeah, but
those two guys. And he leans forward and he says,
(32:12):
and I promise you I'll destroy him. When I speak,
I ambellished. I said, I pulled out a contract right there.
And but uh so fast forward the meeting. He talks
about a rebounding and defense. Right the first practice. The
first practice, he does not take a shot. He did
(32:34):
not take one shot. Afterwards, I brought him and said, hey,
you know this destroy thing. I've seen you get multiple
fifty point games this year. He said, you know what
I was doing. I said, yeah, but please shoot. We
would we would kid one another that I was the
only coach ever that had to plead for him to shoot.
(32:58):
And but set to stage another interesting thing. From the
first practice, we're doing a fast break drill and we're
throwing the damn thing all over the place. Jason has
got more turnovers in that game than he hasn't half
the season in the n b A. And we come
(33:19):
together and in Jason says to the team, I'll tone
it down, and Carmelo and Lebron and Kobe they said
to him, don't tone it down. We've never played with you.
You know we'll get your passes. You see things, We've
adjusted our game. Two people who don't see what you do,
(33:42):
don't stop seeing what it was an unbelievable right, How
cool is that? That's like a musician, you know, you
get at and somebody's going on and more. No, no,
keep playing the fucking piano. You know. You know I'm
going to play my guitar better or I'm gonna sing better.
And those who were the some of the moments that
just kind of happened by those guys given to one another.
(34:07):
Crazy just crazy good stuff, crazy good stuff. That summer,
it was really just a matter of the team USA
sorting itself out more than worrying about the competition. The
tournament was really more of a formality than anything else.
They would have been the automatic entrance in the two
thousand and eight Olympics if they had won the gold
medal in two thousand four, or if they had won
(34:29):
the two thousand and six World Championships, but since they didn't,
they had to qualify by winning what used to be
called the Tournament of the America's when the Dream Team
did it in ninety two. Now it was going by
the FIBA America's Tournament, but at least it wasn't an
inconvenience logistically. Originally it was supposed to be played in Venezuela,
but Venezuela was delinquid and their payments to FIBA. So
(34:51):
the USA just outbid everyone for the hosting riots and
they held it in Vegas and the guys didn't even
have to leave their hotel rooms after training camp. That's right.
A similar thing had happened back in ninety two. That now,
as you mentioned, the Dream Team had to qualify because
we had only won the bronze in in you you
actually had to explain what Olympic qualifying was to a
(35:12):
lot of the guys. That's something not the United States did. Anyway.
That tournament was also supposed to be in South America,
but David Stern said, now now we're not sending Uh,
Mike Michael's not packing his bags. Uh. Right after the finals,
and I think the NBA gave him five million dollars
or something and moved to to Portland, and I'm not
going to talk about it, but in retrospect, that was
(35:34):
the greatest week with the Dream Team. It was it
was a little bit more intimate, you know, it wasn't
the Olympic restrictions. Could still hang out with the guys.
I've said this before. The most supreme moment of covering
those guys was the first time the Dream Team ran
out together, and that happened at that tournament, the America's
(35:55):
in Portland and nine two. Naturally, it was magic and
Larry came out first, and as soon as they came
out Cuba, the opponent stopped practicing and started reach for
their cameras and began taking pictures. So Jack Team say
swept through the two thousand seven version of the tournament.
(36:16):
They went by an average of forty points per game.
And really this was like the test run, sort of
like one of the earlier Apollo mission when they run
through things like docking two vehicles and space, or they
orbited the Moon before they went for the actual moon landing.
And in this case they had successfully integrated Kobe with
Lebron and Team USA. Kobe loved the game. He wanted
(36:39):
to be perfect in the game, you listen to some
of his interviews now, they're they're like the wisest coach
talking about the game. And and I really believe that
worked its way through our whole team a greater love
for the game. And so that finishes off their time
(37:01):
together in two thousand and seven. In episode eight, will
look at two thousand and eight, the preparation and the
final steps as they get ready for the Olympic Games
in Beijing and the Redeemed teams arrival in China. Well
one was a little bit later arriving when they were
trying to go out, as Jason Kidd told us, we
were leaving the hotel to go to a party, and uh,
(37:25):
we were waiting and unfortunately he wasn't on time. So
we left and and Lebron was like, hey, you said,
you know, we be all time. If you're not all time,
we leave. So we we left, and uh we got
a call that we had to turn around and go
kick them up. Um, Lebron wasn't too happy about that.
(37:47):
But also the immense popularity of these players overseas and
in China, and in particular Kobe Bryant, as we heard
from Jerry Colangelo, the game's leading up to the Olympics.
You know, two o'clock the morning and ten thous people
are on the streets, lined up waiting, yelling Kobe, Kobe, Kobe.
I mean he was. He had invested a lot of
(38:09):
time over in China, in Japan and had built quite
a business for himself and following and he was larger
than life for for those people. That was kind of
a revelation for me, just how big he had become
(38:30):
and how big the market was over there for NBA players.
I'm Jack McCallum, I'm j Thanks for listening to Kobe
Lebron and the Redeemed Team. The Dream Team Tapes, Season two.
Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team is a production of
(38:52):
Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This season
is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j. A. Dande,
Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Francis for Diversion podcast
(39:15):
and Shawn's High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial
director is John Tuttle, Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer
Freddie Overseeghen editing, mixing and sound designed by Mark Frances Verna.
Fields is our technical producer and our Director of Marketing
and business Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion Podcasts
The Dream Team Tapes Season two. Kobe, Lebron and the
Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
(00:27):
the honor of representing the United States in the two
thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
look forward to this for a while, you know, to
be in this position now to here, we don't represent
our country man, especially special Lebron James. We look for
(00:47):
the opportunity the weekend on athamall being the best in
the world. I guess the Redeem Team is as it
is right, We're the best team in the world. We're
the best team in the world where we put basketball
America basketball wheat. Which is that time? Welcome to the
(01:19):
Kobe Lebron and the Radeem Team podcast on Ja Donde
and we're calling this episode Lucky Seven's and most of
the action will be described and takes play in Las Vegas.
Lucky A Lady Tonight, etcetera, and all that and all
of the action takes place in two thousand seven. The
NBA All Star Game was in Vegas that year, and
so was Temo Says training camp and the FIBA America's Tournament.
(01:41):
It's originally supposed to be in Venezuela. We'll get to
the story behind that later. They were important breakthrough moments
for Kobe Bryan and Lebron James individually in two thousand
and seven, and then they came together that summer to
play a teammates for the first time. But the story
starts at All Star Weekend in February, and in season
one of the Dream Team tapes, Jack McCallum told us
(02:02):
about the lengths he would go to an avoid writing
about All Star Games, and Jack, you were willing to
jump through the logistical hoops of gathering Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson,
Charles Barkley, Patrick Doing, and Karl Malone for a photo
shoot for the Sports Illustrated Famous cover photo shoot. You'd
rather do all that than recap the All Star Game
in Charlotte that year? Did you really despise covering All
Star Games that much? First of all, don't be giving
(02:24):
away all my professional secrets. J. That's that wasn't very nice.
The thing I remember most about All Star Weekends to
give you an idea what the game meant to me,
was that one of my Favorites was six, the first
year they did the three point shot contest. I mean
by then we had seen a lot of unbelievable dunks.
(02:44):
I mean you went back to the A B A dunks.
You know, they were as spectacular as anything. But I
remember that first shooting contest when Bird, you know it,
comes out and doesn't remove his warm up jacket. The
problem with it was was that when you write first
Barts illustrated, You're always supposed to be looking at some angle,
some sort of thing that would propel you to forward.
(03:07):
And with the All Star Game, you couldn't really get that.
And I'm talking about an arrow when some of the
All Star games were pretty good. So it was just
very hard to find an angle. The moment the weekend
was over, the game was over, you went back to
the regular season, and it just seemed this kind of
anomaly that was very difficult to write about. But I
(03:29):
was there for everyone, uh from tip off until the
final and was even reasonably non hungover when the tip
off went off. Congratulations. Well, the parties were always the
best part of All Star Weekend, but I always felt
the All Star weekends and even the All Star Games
could be viewed as a referendum on the state of
the NBA if if you really took a step back
(03:50):
and looked at it that way. And in two thousand seven,
Kobe clearly approached it as a way to climb back
to the top of the league and to regain his
good standing in the public eye. So remember, after the
two thousand three sexual assault allegation, he lost endorsement deals
with sponsors like McDonald's and Nutella. Now, Nike stuck with
him the whole time, but they weren't exactly emphasizing him. Uh,
(04:12):
they kept him on the roster, but he wasn't at
the forefront. But at the two thousand and seven All
Star weekend, Kobe is doing promotional events for the Sony
PlayStation and the NBA O seven video game, and that
was his first new sponsor since the case against him
was dropped in two thousand four, and the NBA was
embracing him as well. Formally, he was one of the
past Dunk Contest winners that they brought back to serve
(04:33):
as a judge for the Dunk Contest, So he was
sitting there along with Michael Jordan and Dominique Wilkins. Michael
was hating by the way, he refused to give up
tens to anybody. The lowest score for every dunk was
Michael Jordan's. He was in full hater mode. And then
comes the game on Sunday night, and everybody else played
like exactly what you'd expect people have spent their previous
(04:54):
four day hours in Las Vegas to play like, but
not Kobe. He's picking guys up at half of court,
he's saving ball from going out of bounds. He had
thirty one points and get this, Jack six steals in
this game and Kobe is actually the all time steals
leader in the All Star Game. That tells you how
seriously he takes it. And to hear Carmelo Anthony tell
it that performance in two thousand seven was all predestined.
(05:18):
Even being there, you felt it like he would tell you, like, Yo,
I'm going forward tonight. You know what I'm saying Like
he was, he was telling people, I'm going forward tonight.
I'm locked in. And so the people that know him
have been a rhyming know's environments. When he get that
that aura that you know, it's almost like Bruce Leebroy
when you get the glow. When when he gets that
(05:40):
and you start looking in his eyes, and he started
getting his look you know what type of night is
gonna be? And he had that, he had it. He
would just say, I'm going forward. I'm going forward. I
like that Bruce Leroy reference from Carmelo, a hint to
the eighties movies The Last Dragon. And since Carmelo was
Kobe's teammate on the Western Conference squad back when they
still divided all Star teams by conference, he had a
(06:02):
warning beforehand. But Chris Boss was unprepared. He was playing
for the East. He had no idea what was coming,
but it didn't take him long to see what was
happening at first, Like, man, what the hell's it doing?
Oh yeah, a star m VP. Yeah he's going for
boys and he's gonna get it because it was a blowout.
But I mean, yeah, he was there. He was playing hard.
I do I do remember that. Man, he was playing
(06:27):
so hard you know for a guy like me. I'm
the young dude, My family is there. I just want
to get a couple of dunks be in the game.
It's not for bigs, you know what I'm saying. And
I'm you know, he's just you know, the guard lays
down on a screen and roll or I so, and
we're the one. You know, I'm a big and Kobe's
(06:47):
coming at me full speed. I'm like, man, this is crazy.
He's really moving fast. I get offensive rebounds and all
that stuff. It was it was pretty fun that that
taught me how Bordner was, you know. I'm just like, yeah,
everybody is just you know, just kind of out here
for ships and giggles, and they'll play the game there there.
(07:09):
They put your name in the paper for these things,
you know, and especially if you uh, if you're trying, uh,
you know, to make a comeback. And man, hell yeah,
I couldn't even fathom that stuff. I couldn't even fathom
the pressure he was putting on himself to even do that.
So Kobe wins the All Star Game m v P,
and this time he's cheered when he holds up the trophy,
(07:31):
unlike in two thousand two when he won the All
Star m v P in his hometown at Philadelphia and
the fans booed him, that's your town, Jack, explaining what
your people were doing. Well, that's kind of my talent.
I've always lived. I was born just south of Philadelphia. Now,
I lived just north of Philadelphia, but I did work
there for a while, so okay, I'll claim to be
(07:51):
a Philly guy. You know, the relationship j was interesting
and and Kobe was I remember that Kobe was very surprised,
uh and even you know, a little bit hurt. And
I think there's a couple of reason. Number one, it's Philly,
so I kind of they booed Beyonce at the NBA
Finals the year before and Destiny's Child, and I know
(08:12):
they talked about Philly Bowe and Santa Claus. How do
you boot Beyonce? I mean, I will defend Philly fans
a little bit more than most people, but it is Philly,
so it's kind of what we do. Number two, Kobe
wasn't a true, true Philly guy. You know. He wasn't
from Roman Catholic, he wasn't from Overbrook. He was out
there in the bourbs, you know, at at Lower Marriott.
(08:33):
Number three, Before I give the final reason, let me
ask you something you would know better than I would.
Was Kobe a teetotaler? Like? Did he not party at
all during these weekends in Vegas and stuff? I don't
really know. I never had cocktails with him or anything.
So I don't know the answer to that was he
(08:53):
he didn't see him out. Yeah, and I actually had
drinks with them much much later, including I think one
of the as USA teams a times in in Vegas
when they had training camps in Vegas. But at that stage, no,
I had never had a drink or seen Kobe out drinking.
You know that has something to do with his All
Star appearances. But I think the final reason Jay was
(09:15):
that this time we're talking about two thousand two, that
was in the middle of the AI Philly honeymoon. I mean,
he had taken them AI had taken them to the
finals a year before one that memorable Game one in
l A. We all knew, okay, it's probably gonna win
four in a row after that, but AI kicked their
ass in Game one, and A I was the m
(09:36):
v P of the All Star Game and oh one
had a great game down in Washington. I think people
were looking at hey, let's get two in a row.
He's our guy. He's on the other team with Kobe,
so in in retrospect, I guess it's pretty natural that
he got booed. However, Kobe was disappointed. You know, and
he was a little bit hurt if you look at
the YouTube films of that, and uh, he went out
(10:00):
and showed I'll show you how I play when I'm
hurt and went out there and as he usually did,
you know, took no prisoners. Kobe did still have love
from the fans on the West Coast, and Vegas is
kind of like Lakers secondary market. Remember they used to
play regular season games up there and they still play
preseason games there and Vegas bands love Kobe. But talking
(10:24):
to the players after that All Star Game in OH seven,
I just remember they didn't seem particularly close to him.
I talked to Iris and Ray Allen. They just didn't
know him that well still, and they were, okay, good
for him. He won the m v P. He wanted
that bad. If he wants it, he can have it.
The attitude was more like they had to respect him
as a grudging respect. It wasn't love, but there was
(10:46):
grudging respect for Kobe. Yeah. I think that feeds into
that We've alluded to it before. J that kind of
he just wasn't one of the guys. And I'm talking about,
you know, covering All Star games back in the eighties
when players really really wanted that to be m v
P of the All Star Game. That was really really important.
And Okay, did they play defense like the regular season? No,
(11:08):
All Star games have always been high scoring affairs. You know,
they weren't double teaming the post and doing all the
pat Riley you know, Hubi Brown, you know defenses. But
they still played their butts off. But it just had
to do with that lone wolf aspect of of Kobe.
And later in that season in the playoffs, one of
(11:29):
the guys that really earned the respect of that year
was Lebron. It was the year of his memorable forty
eight special, which followed hard upon the Danielle Marshall game
when he apparently committed the egregious, unforgivable sin of instead
of driving to the basket for the final play, passed
off to a wide open uh Danielle Marshall in the corner,
(11:51):
who wasn't known as a three point specialist. Danielle Marshall lived,
Mr Shot. Everybody went, my god, the Lebron's not a game. Well,
he went on to be quite a gamer in that
series against the Pistons, and if you look at that series,
it's one of the most incredible scoring explosions of all time.
They're playing the Pistons with too forty nine left at regulation.
(12:14):
Drew Gooden makes a free throw that cuts the Pistons
lead to four points. They eventually play three more minutes.
Of that twelve minutes of overtime, nobody scores another point
for Cleveland except for Lebron James. They let him shoot
from the outside. He starts making threes. They said, oh, hell,
(12:36):
we gotta go out and cover him. He gets to
the basket and makes a dunk. And when it was
all over and they had beaten the Pistons, they then
beat him in the climactic game. The league had a
little bit of a change. And I remember that summer.
You know, people would say, for the first time, hey Jack,
if you could pick Kobe or Lebron, who would you take.
(12:59):
And I still remember going, well, if you're asking me
this year, I guess I would still take Kobe. But
if you asked me next year, I think it's gonna
be Lebron. Yeah, it's starting to happen, and it's starting
to become a legitimate conversation. And this was just a
fantastic performance. Marv Albert called that game for Turner. He
(13:21):
called it one of the best playoff performances he'd ever seen.
And when Marv Albert says that, coming from all the
playoff performances he's witnessed, that is incredible praise. And it's
indicative of the type of attention and the type of
love that Lebron is starting to get at that moment.
And I really think Kobe was envious of Lebron getting
(13:42):
all this attention. And it's no coincidence in my mind
that in the middle of these playoffs, in the middle
of that series, Kobe goes on Stephen A. Smith radio
show and says he wants to be traded the Lakers.
Remember coming up, Kobe's out of the playoffs. He's been
eliminated in the first round for of the second year
in a row by the Phoenix Suns, and they're regressing.
(14:03):
It took seven games the year before. This year in
two thousand and seven, he's out in five games and
he's grumbling that night. He pulled me aside and he's
talking about, you know, this ship has to change. He's
unhappy with the supporting cast that he has there. They
need to do something about it. And it's just lingering
and festering in him, and then here's Lebron getting all
this attention and it just spills out on all these
(14:25):
radio interviews that he's doing that summer in that spring,
so Kobe wants to be traded, and that all leads
to a big meeting that offseason that Phil Jackson described
to us. He was like, I don't know if we
can go forward without making some dramatic changes, and he said, uh,
I'm gonna have to do it. So he picked up
(14:46):
the ball an email with Dr Bus a Barcelona, and
then he came back to California. So I was kind
of there as the mediator. There was Dr Bus and
there was Jimmy Bus and Mitch Cup checking. On the
other side was Rob Blinka and Kobe, and I could
(15:08):
sit in between and kind of my moderate Whatever I
could talk about is, you know, the effectiveness, And eventually
Kobe came out down to reasoning and going forward, even
those very different I think we we actually got down there,
(15:28):
even having some names that were on the board, and
Dr Buzz said something to the effect if I had
a five carrot ring and our diamond, he should didn't
say ring a diamond, and someone suggested that I break
it up and make one carrot diamonds out of the
five carrot diamonds. That wouldn't be smart with it. Something
(15:51):
to that effect. He said, the five carrot diamond is
much more valuable than five one caret diamonds. And that's
how I feel about you Cook. And with that jewelry analogy,
Kobe was destined to remain a Laker. It took a
little while, but eventually not only did he stay, he
winds up winning the MVP the next season. But it's
pretty amazing to think that all this dissension and turmoil
(16:12):
with the Lakers is playing out that same summer that
there USA basketball team is training and playing to qualify
for the Olympics. Yea, Kobe always seemed to be one
of those guys that that ascribed to the theory that
creative tension was best. You know, that you couldn't if
things were too calm. Uh, you know, it just didn't work.
(16:33):
But one thing he didn't have to worry about was
the roster with the USA Basketball that they had compiled.
I mean, beside the you know, Carmelo, Kobe himself being
on it. Lebron Jay kidd, Uh you know, they had
some other Darren Williams, he had some other guys that summer,
one of the main ones being Chauncey Billups And I
was always a fan of Jauncy's game. I just thought Chauncey,
(16:57):
you know, really walked that line. He was kind of
up combo guard at the same time. He was kind
of a combo style guy. He was sort of a
you know, an urban player. You could see him in
Rucker Park, but you could also see him, you know,
dribbling the ball and taking the time and doing kind
of a magic Johnson let's calm down and everything. And
he was on that team, and he's one of the
(17:19):
guys who's uh games I really respected. And And here's
what Darren Williams, who was at the time kind of
a younger player, here's what he thought the first time
he saw that team assemble when we got together, and
I was like looked that. I was looking at like
the lineup, and I was just like, man, this is uh,
it's a pretty good team. I don't see anybody beating us. Honestly,
(17:43):
that's that was my first name. Just I didn't see
anybody beating us. How do you then fight off the overconfidence,
right that that could be a dangerous attitude to come into.
I don't think while I while I felt like I
didn't see anybody beating us, that didn't it wasn't It
wasn't cockiness. It wasn't it was kind of cockiness, I think,
(18:03):
but it was you know, it was just at the
same time, we just we had a goal when you
put that much talent in the room, with that, you know,
with some of the hardest workers in the game. Uh
was some of the best leaders in the game, with
one of the best coaches that's ever coached the game.
And the coaching staff was an unbelievable coaching staff behind
(18:24):
Coach K. Because it wasn't just Coach K. I mean,
we had we had a great coaching staff and so
all those things together, great leadership from the top from
Jerry Colangelo. You know, I just didn't see us losing.
Keep in mind they had lost to Greece in the
World Championships the year before, and Lebron Carmelo and Dwight
Howard were the key players from that OH. Six team
who were back in OH seven Chris Bosh and Dwayne
(18:47):
Wade round OH six team and they're in Vegas in
the summer of O seven, but they're injured, so they're
not on the active roster. But Boss was there and
he told us the most noticeable difference was having Kobe
on the court. Yeah, I mean, um, Kobe is playing.
Kobe is here. You know it's and you know you
(19:07):
have to even though you play against him. He he
has an aura. So when you know he walked in
the room, you're you know, everything stops. I didn't play
in over seven. I was there, but I didn't play.
I have planning fashitists, which made me a little nervous
as far as making the team. But I didn't get
those those experiences in the game with Kobe at that point.
(19:28):
But just being a spectator and watching him and Jason Kidd.
I'll be on the bench and in practice, you know,
Jason Kidd throws the past to Kobe and he goes
right by his face because he didn't know he was open.
So they had that chemistry that they were working out
getting used to each other. And I mean Kobe, he
was um, he was always a serious person. You know,
(19:49):
he was always very very uh meticulous about basketball. So
anytime he's playing basketball serious, like every single time, so
that definitely um changed the narrative a bit. And we
we were unsuccessful in the last minute, So it's not
panic or anything like that, but it's definitely like, Yo,
we gotta we gotta get better. You know, we have
(20:10):
to do better. You're listening to Kobe Lebron and the
redeem Team will be back in a minute. I always
wondered what it was like for those, you know, a
guy like Jim Beheim by that time had been around
the game for fifty years and he was one of
the assistants, And I always wondered what it was like
(20:33):
for those guys that have complete command over their team,
you know that their their rule is uh is absolute,
and then they come in and and meet up with
a guy like Kobe and Lebron, who are basically the bosses,
you know, of their own team. And I think Beheim
probably one of these guys that didn't love Kobe to
(20:56):
begin with, but boy, he certainly developed a a grudging
respect and admiration for the guy. And here's what he
had to say about Kobe coming in. Kobe really changed
the whole focus of the team. He came in. I
remember he came in, he worked out in the morning,
he came to them and worked out at night, came
to practice and just attacked everybody, just literally literally attacked
(21:21):
whoever he was guarding. You know, And I've never been
around Kobe other than the state he lo to him,
but he attacked everybody in that first couple of days
of practice. And then it was a matter of would
it be a fair fight? So if he's attacking everybody,
are the people on the other side of the scrimmage
is going to have the weapons and the wherewithal to
be able to go back at him. And of course
(21:42):
the best way to assure that was to put Lebron
on the other team. And if you wanted that creative
tension that you talked about, Jack, I'd say it goes
beyond just creative tension. But if you if you wanted
that competitive desire to come out into practice, you definitely
separate Kobe and Lebron and have them go at it
in the quest for supremacy of the team in the league.
(22:04):
And to me, it seems similar and you can tell
me because you were there with this dream team, but
it seems like a similar dynamic to Michael Jordan's magic
Johnson Duking out for supremacy on the Dream Team. But
the difference that I see is that Magic. You know,
Magic hadn't even played the year before, he had announced
his retirement with HIV, whereas Kobe is in his prime.
(22:27):
He's twenty seven in the summer of two thousand and seven.
He turns twenty eight in August, and he just led
the NBA in scoring for the past two seasons, as
opposed to Magic coming off an All Star appearance, that
memorable All Star Game in Orlando, but that was it
for him in season. Yeah, I would pay, and sports
writers don't pay for very much. I would have paid
(22:50):
a lot of money to watch a Kobe Lebron one
on one game right about then, I I don't I
couldn't even begin to tell you who would have won.
But I can tell you a Michael Magic game, who
would have won fifty and nothing? Maybe so but the
(23:10):
but the in its own way, though, ja the Magic
Michael thing, the relationship was almost as interesting in a
ceremonial kind of way. And there what they were dueling
about was whose league is it? You know? And the
one thing Magic it was the most a one of
(23:31):
the most unselfish guys who ever played the game. But
Magic had this idea of the proprietary thing, that this
was still my league and it was still Larry's league.
Bird gave up that long ago, and it could have
been during the playoffs, you know, uh, six years before
(23:53):
the Dream Team when Michael went for what was it
sixty three and forty eight in Boston Garden. But Magic
held onto that and it was very much of a
ceremonial argument until he finally said, uh, now, okay, I
gotta admit, I hear you, this is now Michael's Michael's
leg And it wasn't the same thing for Kobe and Lebron.
(24:16):
I mean, I if you would have asked whose league
it was, then you could have probably got a pretty
even vote on that, I would imagine. Yeah. And and
like that Dream Team was the passing of the torch,
and you described it that way in your chronicling of
that team. So the torches officially passed probably after that
that infamous scrimmage. And there's no torch passing here. They're
(24:39):
they're fighting for the torch when Kobe Lebron are going
at it. And Jason Kidd said, uh, you know when
when they're on separate teams in the scrimmage, you knew
it was going to be a battle. It was that
competitive nature. I think Kobe would have won one on
one game between the two of them because he was
the better one on one player. Lebron was more pass
oriented player. Hope. We never spent much time looking for
(25:01):
the open guy. That wasn't That was Let's It was shock,
you know, shock at the shock at the rim he
found him. He was a good passer and could pass,
but yeah, that that wasn't his thing, that that wasn't
his mindset necessarily. But also Lebron wasn't as good an
outside shooter. That was something that he developed. And even
that year in the finals, one of the reasons they
(25:22):
got swept by the Spurs was the spurs defensive strategy
was to basically give Lebron that eighteen to shot and
he couldn't make them pay often enough to do that.
And it used to be the difference around that time,
I think was that Kobe could lay off Lebron a
little bit if he's guarding him. Lebron couldn't lay off Kobe.
Now fast forward a few years, you can't afford to
(25:43):
lay off Lebron anymore. Complete game. Now he can pull
up from the logo at near half court and make threes,
but he couldn't back then, and so that was one
of the reasons I think Kobe still had the edge
back then. But you know, as much as they were
maybe competing with each other, Coach k knew that it
was essential for Lebron and Kobe to co exist for
(26:04):
this team to work and their own individual teams. They're
exalted to be the one or two superstars on the team,
but we could not have that. And that's where the
relationship between Kobe and Lebron really became the centerpiece of
of that foundation of that building. And those two guys
were magnificent and how they brought it together. And so
(26:28):
at that point, Coach k had a little more history
with Lebron than he did with Kobe, since they had
gone through that humbling loss to Greece together in two
thousand and six, and Shoki actually went to Akron, Ohio
to meet with Lebron and to get his feedback on
some of the new players who were joining the team
in two thousand seven. You know, like all of us,
me too, we had a lot of growing up to
(26:48):
do for international or otherwise, and so we learned from
some of the mistakes that were made. And I said,
I want to bring these three guys in and he
I said, how do you feel about it? Because I
don't know some of those guys might feel no one's
as good as them, you know. And uh so, he
(27:09):
this is a true start, that's all true. He said, Well,
Jake Kidd is the best passer in the n B
A I can really pass two. I can learn from him.
And at that time, Kobe was the best player in
the NBA. And he didn't say that, but he did say,
(27:31):
nobody prepares like Kobe. I can learn from that. And
Chauncy is really smart. And on every meeting that we
had with that team, Lebron sat next to Jake Kidd
and almost every night. People don't realize how much extra
these guys do. Jason and Lebron went to shoot together
(27:54):
and they weren't I call it when I speak to you,
sharing best practices. And how would they have ever shared
best practices if they had not come together and be willing,
since they owned the same thing, be willing to share
that that stuff. And it's at the end of the day,
(28:16):
it was beautiful, really and I give so much credit
to those guys you're listening to Kobe Lebron and the
redeem Team will be back in a minute now. Jason
Kidd and Lebron, who are sort of the two sides
(28:38):
of you know, the veteran leader and the kind of
coming leader, they got very close, and so close that
Jason even became intimately familiar with Lebron's preferred alcoholic beverage,
which I would not have guessed, but here it is, well,
um understanding. I had to get used to drinking strawberry
(28:58):
Jacaris with Lebron, and I was number one. Um. I
think we set a record in Vegas of drinking strawberry decoras.
But it wasn't all about drinks by the pool at
the Wind Hotel. Kid delivered an important message at the
outset of that summer season. I was self spoken, but
I thought, you know, starting the meeting off by saying,
(29:19):
can we be on time? You know, because we don't
want to sit here and wait for someone, because that
will start to chip away at the foundation of the
team will start to click. We'll start to say negative
things about one another, and and all of a sudden
it falls apart. So um, I always thought if a team,
all star team could come together and be on time,
I thought, one that's respectful to the coaches and also
(29:41):
to each other, and sometimes that's overlooked. And that's kind
of how I wanted to start the meeting. Again. I
didn't yell at out um, I knew my place, but
I thought if we could start on time, that would
help coach k and I also would help with the team.
So it feels like Kid was the camp counselor that summer,
but it was really important that rather than Kobe or
Lebron fighting over the leadership role, Kid could sort of
(30:04):
step in as a third party and take on that position. Well,
I think one trust UM. I think they all felt
um that I played at a high level, that I
was about winning UM and playing the game the right way.
And uh, I think they trusted, you know that what
I said or was gonna do, was gonna was gonna
(30:25):
help them, wasn't gonna mislead them. And uh, that's a
big thing when you talk about that that group of brothers,
brotherhood of being honest and trying to help from past experiences.
So I think it was just a trust and they
knew that I was not trying to infringe on on
(30:45):
their their territory or take the territory. I was there
just I was Switzerland. I was just there to help.
Kobe was not Switzerland. Kobe was more of the UH.
Kobe was the the British Empire or the Soviets in
the fifties. He was a little bit more acquisitive. But
I thought that was an interesting historical reference. By the
way by J Kidd and UH Coach k could tell
(31:07):
the players were still eyeing Kobe, still looking at him
kind of warily, wanted to know what he was willing
to give up for the sake of the team, and
he got a preview of that even before they started practicing.
Two days before we started the meeting, you know, for
that team, we were in Vegas as a staff and
(31:28):
we uh, we're planning, and all of a sudden knock
on the door and it's Kobe. He's there two days early.
And again I'm not embellishing this at all. He said, Coach,
I'd like to talk to you for a little bit.
So we went to another place and he said, I
need for you to do me a favor, and I said,
(31:50):
of course, what's the favor? He said, I want to
guard the best perimeter player of every team that we play.
And then he paused, and you know his eyes where
he and Jordan's. No one really has had those eyes
those two guys. Maybe Bird a little bit, Yeah, but
those two guys. And he leans forward and he says,
(32:12):
and I promise you I'll destroy him. When I speak,
I ambellished. I said, I pulled out a contract right there.
And but uh so fast forward the meeting. He talks
about a rebounding and defense. Right the first practice. The
first practice, he does not take a shot. He did
(32:34):
not take one shot. Afterwards, I brought him and said, hey,
you know this destroy thing. I've seen you get multiple
fifty point games this year. He said, you know what
I was doing. I said, yeah, but please shoot. We
would we would kid one another that I was the
only coach ever that had to plead for him to shoot.
(32:58):
And but set to stage another interesting thing. From the
first practice, we're doing a fast break drill and we're
throwing the damn thing all over the place. Jason has
got more turnovers in that game than he hasn't half
the season in the n b A. And we come
(33:19):
together and in Jason says to the team, I'll tone
it down, and Carmelo and Lebron and Kobe they said
to him, don't tone it down. We've never played with you.
You know we'll get your passes. You see things, We've
adjusted our game. Two people who don't see what you do,
(33:42):
don't stop seeing what it was an unbelievable right, How
cool is that? That's like a musician, you know, you
get at and somebody's going on and more. No, no,
keep playing the fucking piano. You know. You know I'm
going to play my guitar better or I'm gonna sing better.
And those who were the some of the moments that
just kind of happened by those guys given to one another.
(34:07):
Crazy just crazy good stuff, crazy good stuff. That summer,
it was really just a matter of the team USA
sorting itself out more than worrying about the competition. The
tournament was really more of a formality than anything else.
They would have been the automatic entrance in the two
thousand and eight Olympics if they had won the gold
medal in two thousand four, or if they had won
(34:29):
the two thousand and six World Championships, but since they didn't,
they had to qualify by winning what used to be
called the Tournament of the America's when the Dream Team
did it in ninety two. Now it was going by
the FIBA America's Tournament, but at least it wasn't an
inconvenience logistically. Originally it was supposed to be played in Venezuela,
but Venezuela was delinquid and their payments to FIBA. So
(34:51):
the USA just outbid everyone for the hosting riots and
they held it in Vegas and the guys didn't even
have to leave their hotel rooms after training camp. That's right.
A similar thing had happened back in ninety two. That now,
as you mentioned, the Dream Team had to qualify because
we had only won the bronze in in you you
actually had to explain what Olympic qualifying was to a
(35:12):
lot of the guys. That's something not the United States did. Anyway.
That tournament was also supposed to be in South America,
but David Stern said, now now we're not sending Uh,
Mike Michael's not packing his bags. Uh. Right after the finals,
and I think the NBA gave him five million dollars
or something and moved to to Portland, and I'm not
going to talk about it, but in retrospect, that was
(35:34):
the greatest week with the Dream Team. It was it
was a little bit more intimate, you know, it wasn't
the Olympic restrictions. Could still hang out with the guys.
I've said this before. The most supreme moment of covering
those guys was the first time the Dream Team ran
out together, and that happened at that tournament, the America's
(35:55):
in Portland and nine two. Naturally, it was magic and
Larry came out first, and as soon as they came
out Cuba, the opponent stopped practicing and started reach for
their cameras and began taking pictures. So Jack Team say
swept through the two thousand seven version of the tournament.
(36:16):
They went by an average of forty points per game.
And really this was like the test run, sort of
like one of the earlier Apollo mission when they run
through things like docking two vehicles and space, or they
orbited the Moon before they went for the actual moon landing.
And in this case they had successfully integrated Kobe with
Lebron and Team USA. Kobe loved the game. He wanted
(36:39):
to be perfect in the game, you listen to some
of his interviews now, they're they're like the wisest coach
talking about the game. And and I really believe that
worked its way through our whole team a greater love
for the game. And so that finishes off their time
(37:01):
together in two thousand and seven. In episode eight, will
look at two thousand and eight, the preparation and the
final steps as they get ready for the Olympic Games
in Beijing and the Redeemed teams arrival in China. Well
one was a little bit later arriving when they were
trying to go out, as Jason Kidd told us, we
were leaving the hotel to go to a party, and uh,
(37:25):
we were waiting and unfortunately he wasn't on time. So
we left and and Lebron was like, hey, you said,
you know, we be all time. If you're not all time,
we leave. So we we left, and uh we got
a call that we had to turn around and go
kick them up. Um, Lebron wasn't too happy about that.
(37:47):
But also the immense popularity of these players overseas and
in China, and in particular Kobe Bryant, as we heard
from Jerry Colangelo, the game's leading up to the Olympics.
You know, two o'clock the morning and ten thous people
are on the streets, lined up waiting, yelling Kobe, Kobe, Kobe.
I mean he was. He had invested a lot of
(38:09):
time over in China, in Japan and had built quite
a business for himself and following and he was larger
than life for for those people. That was kind of
a revelation for me, just how big he had become
(38:30):
and how big the market was over there for NBA players.
I'm Jack McCallum, I'm j Thanks for listening to Kobe
Lebron and the Redeemed Team. The Dream Team Tapes, Season two.
Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team is a production of
(38:52):
Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This season
is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum and j. A. Dande,
Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Francis for Diversion podcast
(39:15):
and Shawn's High Tone for I Heart Radio. Our editorial
director is John Tuttle, Supervising producer Brian Murphy, legal producer
Freddie Overseeghen editing, mixing and sound designed by Mark Frances Verna.
Fields is our technical producer and our Director of Marketing
and business Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion Podcasts
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