The Man Who Caught Fat Joe Stealing

We sit down with royalty recovery specialist Gongu Roach. Gongu has recovered millions of dollars in stolen publishing & royalties for several recording artist, most notably the late Big Pun's estate for his wife and children who were homeless when Fat Joe refused to pay. Press play to hear this crazy sh**

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, all right, all right man. You know, before
we get started tonight, we've had a couple of losses.
H you want to start off, you want to start.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Us off, bro, Not really, man, I don't even want
to go to it right now. I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I'm anna give a big shout out, man to
the homeboy go Mac man from a bud of law.
He passed away today. I want to give condolences to
the homie man. We're gonna miss you, man. And you
know a other homie man out little et do that
when he's ready.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Man.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
But we can't take life for granted, y'all. This life
is too short for bullshit and everything else.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Man.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
We only here for a second, So let's fin in
that second. Let's thin that second being righteous, you know.
For shall glad to have you back, dog, glad to
have you back this week? Man, you know not, I
wish it wouldn't have been under those circumstances. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, shit happens, man, and it be just like sudden.
You know, you can accept some type of shit. You know,
we all men, and we're supposed to be staying strong
and be built. But man, it's just it's just some
shit that happens man, that you can't even it just

(01:26):
it just knocks you down. It should should just be unexpected.
I guess that would be the real killer about it.
It'd be different when you know people and they going
through some stages, you know what I'm saying. I mean,
you know death is coming to us all. But you

(01:46):
know when it's somebody that you just like that, like
it's impossible, man, Like how did how It's impossible?

Speaker 1 (01:58):
And then.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Coming up like how we came up? Man, You always
expected to be on some oh somebody shot my nigga,
or somebody did this, or my nigga went to prison
for a hundred years or some shit. When it's on
some like when it's on some like medical shit that

(02:22):
you can't understand, that shit like it fuck with you
because that's the shit that take you suddenly.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
You know, if a nigga out there on the block
banging and serving or whatever, somebody might come by and
try to hit you. That's the chances we used to take.
You get me. But seeing you go through all of
that and you make it to a certain age and
you know, grandkids and you're chilling and whatever, and next
thing you know, bam. You know what I'm saying. You

(02:52):
get that phone call and now you rush into somebody's bedside.
You feel me that shit is crazy? Yeah it is, man,
You know it is.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Man. We can't take it for granted. Man, it's like
in the blink of eye, like literally, you know, in
the blink of an eye.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Man.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
You know, one second you hear, the next you gone.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Man.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
You know, we talk a lot about music, man, I
mean you we've had discussions on the show before about
the music industry just being really cutthroat. Today, man, we
got like sort of a detective. I'd like to call
him a forensics expert, right, you know, the homie gool Man.
Who's happening? Man?

Speaker 5 (03:33):
Hey, first off, my conngolences, see you loved ones.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Good luck. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
So gone Goo. Let me ask you, man, your name
is really unique, man, gon Goo? What is that?

Speaker 5 (03:47):
My grandfather named me? He was headed the household.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Man.

Speaker 6 (03:50):
You know, I don't know it's African or something. I mean,
my grandfather's in like fifth grade, but I never really
got it his it, but you know it stands out.
It's unique.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
You know it.

Speaker 6 (04:03):
You know it's you know, I guess it obviously it
stands out, you know what I'm saying. I mean, it works,
It works for me, It works for me.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, I bet if your grandfather names you probably means
something real powerful.

Speaker 6 (04:15):
Yeah, it supposed if it's supposed to be like an
African witch doctor or something.

Speaker 5 (04:19):
I mean, that's the story I was told.

Speaker 6 (04:21):
I was there was a whole story to it, but
you know I forgot about I forgot, I forgot.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, you know, I'd like to call Ghanghu a forensics expert.
He like a detective. He liked those cats on the
first forty eight to come in when the bread is
messed up and not right, He's gonna come in and
find it and the ain't no how in it front of.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Him, right.

Speaker 6 (04:40):
I do forensics on the royalty side, So I consider
myself a forensics royalty specialist.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Now that means you don't benish from everybody's business then,
because you know, hip hop is one of those arts
man where everybody got a horror story. Everybody don't been robbed.

Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, man, I mean I seen it all, man, definitely
seeing it all.

Speaker 6 (05:00):
And it's going to continue, and you know, I mean
it can happen purposely or even by mistake. You know,
sometimes the system is just messed up too, you know
what I'm saying. That's paying out you know, bad software,
you know what I'm saying, Just you know, and it
just spits out and you got to catch it.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, So how did you get into this business man?
Because this thing is outworking to publish a business. But
your side is kind of different.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I mean, I grew up with some cats.

Speaker 5 (05:29):
I used to be around the sugar Hill family.

Speaker 6 (05:31):
The father, you know, was trying to teach me titbits
on the Royal East side that I would consider that.
He was pretty much an expert on the publishing and
master side of the business and stuff.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
And you know.

Speaker 6 (05:40):
When you come out of high school and a lot
of people were just knocking on his door, coming by
the wall, basically coming by his studio, trying to learn
the music business. You know, he had a door open
for a lot of people. He was teaching a lot
of people. You know what I'm saying. My family knew
his family, so I had an open door policy to
deal with him. And you know, he was able to

(06:01):
you know, I was able to learn a couple of
things from him, even though you know, I was learning
stuff on my own and stuff. But he was able
to you know, put you know, add some add some
season into what I what I already knew, and then
you know, I was able to go out there on
my own and try to like, you know, just find
you know, my own resolve on on issues. But it

(06:22):
took a lot of ringing ring experience. You know what
I'm saying. It's like you can't jump into the fight,
you know, against these experts. You're gonna get beat up,
you know, all around the ring, you know what I'm saying.
So it took a lot of court cases, reading a
lot of contracts, seeing a lot of pain, you know
what I'm saying, experiencing the pain, you know, gaining a
lot of emotion, gaining a lot of motion from from

(06:44):
from your clients, and stuff like that that would motivate you.
Reading a lot of books. You know, it took a
little bit of everything to get where I'm at. You
know what I'm saying, Good lawyers, better lawyers. You know,
it's it was just that it was just a bunch
of ingredients. You know what I'm saying. That that that

(07:05):
that that I ate, you know what I'm saying that
I ingested.

Speaker 5 (07:08):
I ingested a lot of ingredients. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, yeah, I am.

Speaker 5 (07:13):
Now you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
What's the you know, I'm gonna jump right into it, man.
What's the most scamba's case that you've seen? Man? Of
just somebody taking advantage of somebody.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
I mean I got a couple, man, I mean I've
got I've got numerous cases.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
I mean, well, you know, we got all. I want
to hear about them, man, because I think it's important. Yeah,
I don't realize how to protect themselves.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
All right. I had a client one time.

Speaker 6 (07:40):
Back in twenty ten or something like that, twenty eleven,
This lady Venus Dotson. She had a tax bill for
six figures, you know what I'm saying, and make along
su a short. You know, she was like, I never
why would I have a six figure tax bill? You
know what I'm saying, Like, I've never even made no

(08:01):
money in the industry like that.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (08:03):
Basically, say, okay, so say, for example, somebody took MC
eight's name and was taken well, basically, somebody was taking
MC eights checks and cashing MC eights checks under his
government name. So say if mcs would be in my
ass cap or something like that, he was getting writer
checks under his government name. Somebody was cashing their checks
and getting the checks cashed under under their government name.

(08:26):
But they but you'd have to pay the tax bill
because under the government name the checks were for you.
They just got me directed to somebody else's mailbox so
they could cash them, you know what I'm saying. So
that's happened often. I know a few clients that that's
happened to. I mean, obviously the big pun case was
was was messed up. I mean, uh, you know, I

(08:47):
think people know by now. You know I met the
Punk family and the homeless shelter. You know, she was
receiving fake royalty statements for fourteen years. You know, I
had to take people, you know what I'm saying. You know,
I had to take Joe to court over that and
his publisher to prove that the royalty statements that they
that she was receiving was fake.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
For fourteen years, from.

Speaker 6 (09:10):
About twenty fifteen or somewhere around there, she was receiving
fake royalty statements to keep her unrecouped while while they
were really cashing the checks.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Wow. So he was sending her fake statements, like statements
he'd made up of his own that weren't there.

Speaker 6 (09:27):
Well, he was telling this publisher to make fake royalty
statements so they whack up the money.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Okay. Wow, So you would rather see your man because
you know, he talks about poem with very high regard.
And it's kind of crazy that she would like allow
your homeboy's family to stay in a home with Selter
and we had money for him.

Speaker 5 (09:47):
I mean, it was a game, agreed. I think he
created somebody.

Speaker 6 (09:52):
He created somebody so spectacular that he just felt that
like that artist was his, no matter what, that not
even from inheritancy, Like that's not yours, that's my you
know what I'm saying. I mean that just that just
seems like that was the mentality, you know what I'm saying.
He didn't care that. Like just imagine she's like, hey, Joe,
you know what's up with the money. There's no money? Okay,
Hey Joe, I need to pay rent. You know, I

(10:12):
got Pun's crib. I'm about to lose her. Ah, there's
no money. Hey Joe, I'm living at my friend's house
with the kids.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Hey, no money. No money.

Speaker 6 (10:21):
Hey, Joe, I'm living in a homeless shelter, like anything
with the money. There's no money, you know what I'm saying.
So he actually sort of transition of all of that happened,
and he still he still was sending her fake groalthy statements.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
So he didn't care because you got to you got
a two million dollars, right.

Speaker 6 (10:36):
I mean, I found two point three in the in
the I paid an orderor we.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
Found two point three million dollars missing during discovery.

Speaker 6 (10:47):
And it wasn't even all the discovery, you know, they
were they were missing pages in the discovery, you know,
and stuff like that, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (10:53):
I mean, we could took the trial and found more
money and stuff.

Speaker 6 (10:55):
Like that for sure, but you know, we had, you know,
there was a choice to you know, basically went to mediation,
you know what I'm saying, and we got the catalog
back from him and h Basically the publisher was getting
twenty five percent due to the fact that he brought
into the copyright due to advance, and then the other
seventy five percent was thirty seven and a half thirty
seven and a half half of Joe and half for

(11:18):
the pun of state, and we were able to get
you know, Joe's portion back because he got all the
blame in court, you know what I'm saying, because you know,
he didn't pass over the money when he got it.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
M you know what, And this ain't no, this ain't
me man. Oh you're trying to smear Joe man because.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Not at all.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
He's not the only one. Is just reality. It's just
the truth, man. Truth. Sometimes it's bad.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
You would think, though, because he talks about that man
with very high regards, you would think, ain't no way
he gonn allow his man's wife and his baby's to starve.
You feel what I'm.

Speaker 6 (11:52):
Saying, Uh, you know, I mean he had the options,
and he took advantage of whatever option he had to
go left or right, you know what I'm saying. And
you know, I'm just glad that I was able to
prove that the Royalty students were fake because maybe even
to this day, they probably be sending a fake royalty stavements.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
You know it seemed like, man, during the early days
of hip hop, it was a lot of that going on,
and I think that was just because that was the
status quo. Kind of you know, you sign somebody, you
take the publish in. They don't really get no money
outside of what they give in the road, and that's it.
They kind of you know, going to oblivion or whatever.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Right, It's happened to the best of them.

Speaker 5 (12:35):
I've seen.

Speaker 6 (12:35):
I've seen run DMC in corporate Steve plot Nikki profile
records because Steve plott Nicky was sending one d fake
royalty statements.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Uh, you know what I'm saying. One of the biggest
groups in the world.

Speaker 6 (12:47):
I mean yeah, but I mean but they also got
a lot of licensees like Christmas Holliday Records and all
that type stuff.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
That God was able to man, Yeah, that God was
able to Yeah.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
And they even they even lost the court case.

Speaker 6 (13:02):
You know what I'm saying, because you know, they had
lack of knowledge and lack of technique to how to
fight a veteran like that.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
You know what I'm saying. I mean, this guy's experienced.

Speaker 6 (13:11):
In my opinion, it just seems like he don't like
paying black people, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (13:16):
That's just my opinion, and.

Speaker 6 (13:19):
I mean that's from my experience because I took him
to court before too, and stuff like that. And I
mean everybody I noticed black is getting manipulated from him
somehow somewhere. You know, there's a whole complaint border on
him basically from artists that call me. You know what
I'm saying. And uh, I mean Rob Base was signed
over there. I think DJ Quick signed to Profile Records

(13:42):
camp Low. Yeah, but I don't know it's never spoke
to him about it. But I'm just saying, but he's
one of those guys that in his contracts he didn't
give out publishing. He was just giving up royalty. You
didn't you didn't have publishing. You just you was just
getting you.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Know, publishing like that. You know what a lot of
like we wasn't get. Yeah, I didn't get publishing even
though it was there. I know shit about it.

Speaker 6 (14:08):
Yeah, I mean done, Hey, bo, I would just sign
the same contract they did, just because I know what
I know now back then, being so and so aged,
I would have seen I would have signed the same contract,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
So I'm no genius at eighteen twenty years old.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
You know what the thing is though, kind of going ay,
nobody can give you your publishing. That is your right.
The moment you go in thatial intellectual probably the moment
you go in and write over the beat or whatever.
It's supposed to be a marriage between the producer and
the artist the writer. You know, you've got the you
know y'all, y'all both joining the orders of that copy

(14:43):
right right? Can't nobody give me the publishing? Somebody was
writing all your reps for you.

Speaker 6 (14:48):
I'm just saying, Bob, but we're eighteen twenty years old,
We don't you know, we're thinking at forty something.

Speaker 5 (14:53):
Fifty years old. Now, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
Fifty something years old, eighteen nineteen twenty years old, you know,
signing the Bad Boy or something like that or whatever
label to where they get a piece of publishing and
stuff like that. I mean, I mean, number one, you're
you're pretty intrigued by the advance. You know what I'm saying.
At eighteen nineteen years old, you see the advance. You

(15:14):
know what I'm saying, that's one thing.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Let's go.

Speaker 6 (15:16):
You know what I'm saying, he's gonna they're gonnaet a
little piece of the publishing. You don't even know what
that pretty much means eighteen nineteen years old. You know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
You don't, but yeah, and you just you just run
you just running with it.

Speaker 6 (15:26):
I mean, I hate a lot of people argue about
puff now at forty years old, forty something years old
because because they're all the naw they realized what the
value of the publishing is now they now they understand that,
oh I lost a piece of my real estate, you know.
But but just think that even happened a biggie. The
guy had a piece of biggie too. I mean, it
doesn't matter how big you are, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
It happens to the best of them. You know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (15:48):
You could beat Michael Jordan of the rap game at
the end of the day. But when you're eighteen nineteen,
you signed, you signed this contract. You know what I'm saying.
It just it just it just is what it is,
you know what I'm saying. I mean, it's better that
than getting the royalty at the same time. I mean,
you know, at least it transcended from the royalty stage
to where you get your own publishing entity.

Speaker 5 (16:08):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right, how prevalent.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Was that, like with what's one of the older labels, man,
one of the one of the premier labels, what was
the label came and signed.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
To, Yeah, Coach Killing.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I meant, I got Coach Chilling clients and stuff like that.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (16:26):
We got terminations and got them the entity back and
stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (16:31):
It was, like I said, that was that was pretty
much a template of the eighties.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (16:37):
That was just an eighties But once again, eighteen nineteen
years old Chantey was Chantey was fifteen sixteen when she signed.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
You know what I'm saying, I mean, who what?

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Hey? Man?

Speaker 2 (16:51):
You know what I'm saying, what do you what do
you know with that? Sixteen years old?

Speaker 6 (16:54):
Hey, I'm supposed to oh, my publishing, my copyrights supposed
to be like this and like this, Like idan, I
can't hurt out the room.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Wow, you know that.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
Look back then, you wouldn't even have a deal. I
get you out the room.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, we'll call you, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
You know what I'm saying, Yeah, we hit you later
on because you know too much. You talk. Youre about
to call some problems.

Speaker 6 (17:20):
Yeah, but I'm just saying, man, I'm just glad that
you know, these people graduated, you know what I'm saying,
to be the people who they were in the business.
You know, a lot of these people are soundtracks are
my childhood and teenage years, high school years and stuff
like that. You know what I'm saying. When you're that age,
you don't really know the stories like that. You know
what I'm saying, like, oh, this person is not getting

(17:40):
paid like that and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (17:42):
You're more like seventeen eighteen. Look at them like a superhero,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
You know, And like we talked about earlier off the year,
it's not always just some big evil executive somewhere that's
just certain stuff. Sometimes it's a case of people not
understanding business as well. You know, like you said, you
get in advance and you spend money, people spend money
on putting your record out and certain things, and you
you know, you may sign a piece of your publishing

(18:06):
or I think it kind of is a great area
as when you just do it, when you just do
somebody wrong for lack of knowledge and you don't explain
to him, Hey, we're doing this deal I'm going to
give I'm gonna put your record out, but it's changed.
You're going to give me twenty percent of your publishing.
That means this, You give somebody a choice. You feel
what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
I feel you.

Speaker 6 (18:25):
But I just think in this business, this game is
for keeps. You know what I'm saying. That's the mentality
is for keeps. I mean, just think well, I mean,
just think in the sixties, Roulette, Morris Levy, you know,
guys like that throughout the era. The tradition just gets
passed on. You know what I'm saying. You know, it's

(18:46):
just like yo, like yo, here's the handbook. You know
what I'm saying now, mind you Okay. I was going
through a situation with Puffy one time, right back in
like twenty twenty one. He called my house, Well, he
called myself up when I was hanging, you know, doing
what in my living room and stuff like that, and
he was just like basically like yo, man, like you
see me discrepancies.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
Don't call my lawyer, don't call my publisher.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Just call me.

Speaker 5 (19:10):
This is my cell member, Just call me.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
You know what I'm saying, I'm.

Speaker 6 (19:16):
Looking at it like oh shit, like this is the
big homie because I used to be a bad boyal time.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Like I'm like, okay, I'm gonna call you, like I'll
call you like you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (19:23):
He had me like half hypnotized, like okay, like I'll
just call you about it, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
And my client, my client was pissed.

Speaker 6 (19:30):
My client was like, yo, man, like I know he's
playing me and all this stuff, my money, this and that.

Speaker 5 (19:35):
So Puff called him up right, And when.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I spoke to my client, I was like, Yo, so
what y'all talk about? He said, Yo?

Speaker 3 (19:43):
You know?

Speaker 6 (19:43):
Puff said to me. I was like, what do you
say to you? He said, hey, man, I'm just doing
what the white man taught me.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
See this nothing, you know what, man? I can understand
young cats doing something together and don't nobody know what's
going on, But you can't take bad habits. Dog, if
your father used to beat your mama, that don't mean
you beat your wife when you get married. You feel
what I'm saying, You know that don't mean you keep

(20:12):
some you know, bad habits going on. Example off, I
don't think that's an excuse.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Man.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I've always thought that publishing is an artist's legacy. Bro,
that's mailbox money. Because hip hop is not like rock
and roll. Hip hop has a problem with ageism very much.
So it's not like rock and roll to where you're
going to continue to be able to put our records
on a major label at the high left and get
big advances. No, eventually you're going to be putting records

(20:37):
out on your own. If you're putting them out at all,
you'll probably still going to go on tour. But that's
supposed to be like your mailbox money. So when you
get older, man, you got that, you know that publishing coming.
We got guys that have really big records. Man, it's
not getting the publishing.

Speaker 6 (20:53):
I mean, I see a lot of times puswa. I
just had a case today. Like I told you, I
would through six boxes of contracts today. I flew him
from DC to go to Maryland. My client drove from
Virginia to Maryland to meet up with meet it with
me and my lawyer at the lawyer's office. We were
in the conference room going through contracts, right, and you

(21:14):
know it's in a state. They inherited it. They inherited.
They inherited this estate of works and stuff like that.
And when the grandfather died, who did all this work?
When the grandfather died, his granddaughter inherited. So when the
grandfather died, the manager turned around. The Jewish guy manager
turned around and claimed him as all his and he
was selling was he was selling off the publishing, like, yeah,

(21:36):
give me a hundred thousand for these three songs, and
you know this and that, so I could live in
Beverly Hills and all this other stuff, you know what
I'm saying. So you don't know where angle is coming from,
you know what I'm saying. And a lot of times
when you inherit stuff like you're not going to know.
Like you know, if eight passed away and I talked
to one of his relatives and I say, hey, like,
well eight oed me money, and they're not going to

(21:57):
know as much as he did because he was hands
over with the business. You know what I'm saying. The
state can be manipulated. This guy was manipulating. He was controlling.
This guy died in nineteen eighty. He was controlling everything
from nineteen eighty to like nineteen ninety six. So what
was No, this is a guy named Lincoln Chase. He

(22:17):
sampled a lot jay Z, Mariah Carry Heartbreaker and stuff
like that. You know, he got a lot of works
and stuff like that that gets sampled and stuff like that.
But all I'm saying is that, you know, it's not
just hip hop that I do and stuff like that.
This was like I do jazz. You know, I got
a whole bunch of clients and stuff like that. But
I'm just saying, like, you know, what I'm saying is that, well.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Shit, when you're doing work like that, so you got
to be able to and you got to be able
to broaden your horizons when you fucking with different type
of people, when you can prove that you can do
that type of different shit.

Speaker 6 (22:49):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I agree, you know what I'm saying.
So yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying. My work
is diverse. So all I'm saying is that, you know,
there's so many different ways to try to stuff.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
You know what I'm saying, there's a lot of forgeries
in the business.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (23:03):
I think I might have said before, like his his
one trick that goes down, but by veterans, you know,
what I'm saying, I can are you asking it?

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Being my eight I'm being a mind. Nigga stole my publisher. Okay, hey,
well okay, so okay, so you can do this. I
basically my first ever contract, I think I was seventeen eighteen.
I signed a contract with Big Beat Productions.

Speaker 6 (23:30):
Oh Big, Big Atlantic, Big Beat, big Beat something, Big
Beat Atlantic.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Okay, Big Beat Atlantic was Craig Kauman. This was a
nigga name, unknown out of Detroit. He had an independent
record label called Techno Hop. That's where I got my
first shot at. Oh wow, And so when I signed
a deal with him, because he basically had a deal
on the table with Capital orpheus and so signed to him,

(24:03):
but I never signed a publishing deal. What he did
was he took a publishing contract and stapled it to
the back of my recording contract, and she was able
to take my publishing on the first two records. This
was like ninety that might be be resolved these days. Okay, people,

(24:29):
but you and then people look at it as people
look at it from his side, probably like nigga, you
had to pay your dues, so look at that as
paying your dues, right, where would you be if if

(24:49):
a nigga would have never put you out? What would
you be if a nigga never decided to, you know,
drop a record.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
On you or whatever?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
This ISMW yeah really yeah c m W. On my
first two projects, I didn't I didn't start probably getting
published until the group was just you. I wrote everything,
oh o, oh okay wrote I wrote all the lyrics. Nobody, nobody.

(25:22):
One nigga did the beats, and one nigga did the
raps and that was me. I wrote all the araps
for the group.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
Oh man, So I told you behind the scenes.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Right, So yeah, the niggas the nigga staple the publishing
contract to the back of the little record, and that's
how he was able to go to uh, the public,
That's how he was able to go get a publishing deal.
He went and got a publishing deal with the motherfucker.
And uh, he only gave me. He only gave me

(25:54):
some chump change. I think it was for like a
hundred grand. The nigga, the nigga gave me some shit.
I could blow my nose with me. And he kept
around that and he got about it. He got about
it was probably about one hundred thousand dollars publishing deal

(26:15):
and he got yeah, and they gave me about five
grand and he kept the rest. Right, how old are
you then? Oh shit, I was about eighteen nineteen years old.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
See that's what I'm saying. We don't know no better.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
I got.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
I just wanted to rap man. I ain't know about publishing,
and he was getting show money. No, I wasn't even
getting show money yet. I was just glad that I
had a record out. Okay, I hadn't even begun to
start touring. I really didn't start touring till my second album.
I didn't second album, W was so Lo CMW. Okay,

(26:55):
first album, it's a copy thing. I didn't do no
touring off of that. We sold a about close to
two three hundred, about two hundred and something thousand records
on this accomfent thing, and that was through Orpheus Capital,
and then they folded and so we ended up getting
picked up by Sony because Orpheus got picked up on

(27:19):
the deal with Sony, and so Orpheus had a deal
with Big Bet, which was who I was signed to. Okay,
but again i'm writing out, I'm writing everything that, all
the raps on all those CMW and m C eight

(27:42):
solo projects, I wrote all the raps. Nobody Ghoest wrote
none of that. I what made you go? What made
you go? Solo?

Speaker 6 (27:50):
After this, after the second album.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
The label my Nigga Chill kept going to jail and
they didn't want to keep pushing the cmb W line
when there was no CMW. It was just me and
the DJ. Chill was going in and out of jail
all the time, so it was just me. I was

(28:14):
doing all the songs, I was writing all of them,
I was doing all the videos by myself. I was
doing but I'm still going by confidence most warning mm hmm.
They felt probably it was better to just break off
and just deal with me as a solo artist's reliability
less of a lie what you say.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Still, I see a plus for branding that pick because
it was very not confusing. But I used to think
confience most wanted was just another name for you exactly.
There was never nobody else rapping it. He was always
only one rapping.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
I was always I said, when you heard like you
really did hear Chill on songs because he was going
up in the window right, he was on the first version,
and then we did a remix and he wasn't on there.
We did the original version. I wrote the verse, I

(29:17):
wrote the lyrics, we cut the song. Ah, you know,
we were still we were still Street Niggas. Then O
Niggas was getting in trouble. Still. Chill went to jail
that night after we left the studio, so when it

(29:37):
was time to go do the radio version, he wasn't around.
So I had to do it by myself because we
had just cut the original song for the soundtrack, and
then it blew up so good that they wanted to
push it on the radio. So I had to go
back in and do a radio version. And then Who

(29:58):
and then Sony, who I was signed to, They was like, well, shit,
we want our piece. So they turned around and put
out a Naxi single with a whole remix, a whole
different beat to growing Up in the Hood. Oh, it
was like three different versions of growing Up in the Hood.
It's we got we got three different versions. We got

(30:19):
the original with me and Chill, then there's radio version
with just me, and then there's the more bounds remix
with just me.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Oh but.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
I never I never decided to go solo like that
was pushed by the label. They was like, man, why
push Contence most wanted? When Contence most wanted this year?

Speaker 5 (30:47):
That was a dope name too, though you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Definitely, but they probably figured, and you know, this was
around the time where Image and James was everything. We
was already scaring niggas because we was young niggas black
with Jerry curls and khaki suits and ship like that.

(31:12):
They probably figured we would catch less. We would catch
less bullshit. If we go from Contence most Wanted to
MC eight, you give me M eight Contens most wanted,
even though he's Conten's most wanted. When you hear that
name push first, it's more relaxing than presenting Compton's most

(31:35):
wanted on somebody. You feel me.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
That that's aggressive.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
It's easier to go to radio with Hey, here's this
m C eight single. Then here's this Compton's most wanted single.
You get me? Yeah, I guess so, and go ahead.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Still, you wouldn't lucked up with them one of no
contract wizard.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Who with Sony?

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah. After I did Conscience most warn it, they restructured
the deal to just an m C eight solo deal.

Speaker 6 (32:12):
Hey question, would you recall, like you know, you being
in an aggressive group like that, would you recall if
they had life insurance in your contract?

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I have no idea. I'm pretty sure I had one
of the old school contracts. Nigga was a yeah I got.

Speaker 6 (32:30):
That ship, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
And then like the representation back then would like, you know,
it was just shady, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (32:44):
Everybody he signed here.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
I unfortunately, you know, came across a motherfucker who was
you know, he was out. He was out for the
money himself. You mean, Nigga didn't teach me anything as
an older motherfucker who was a lawyer, who was a
motherfucking you know, who had been through the who had
been through the business. He used to work for Stax

(33:06):
Records back in the days. So you would think that
a motherfucker was school you on the eels of the
record business and publishing. And recall that Nigga to give
a fuck. All he wanted was every time a check
came in, where's my piece, where's my piece? And then,
like you said, in the long run, he was still
in my publishing because he had an attorney client trust account,

(33:33):
so my b and my checks, my sony royalty checks
would go to him. And because he had a client
trust account, he could just deposit the motherfucker into his
bank account, right and bingo, Like Nigga I hadn't seen

(33:55):
a royalty check or from I just started receiving being
my checks. And then Nigga I hadn't seen a royalty
check from Sony and who knows when, same type of
Angie Stone ship. Nigga, I ain't seen a check in
a billion years. And then one day the motherfuckers called
me and was like, hey, eight, we've been looking for you.

(34:19):
So I don't know, they're trying to cover their own
ass or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, I think they're trying to cover their ass because
they really when the motherfuckers start calling them about that
other ship.

Speaker 6 (34:30):
You know, yeah, I've taken being by the court before,
over over forged signatures and checks being cash from you know,
by by other parties and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's you know, yeah, behind the Wheelson times, you know,
on the court on some other ship m hm, and
motherfuckers say you made like about sixty last year, you know,
and in royalties or whatever, I'm like, no, I didn't, nigga.

(35:03):
I ain't seen a motherfucking to nigga. Bitch broke our paperwork,
like here's a check, here's a check, here's a check.
Now I'm looking at a nigga like where them chicksat?
Because they never came to me. Nigga was it was
cashing the motherfuckers. Nigga was cashing them. He was feeling
like they wouldn't. He would never get caught, you get me,

(35:25):
He would never get caught. And that's what happened, and
that's how we fell out. Right. I haven't heard from
the nigga since that was. That was decades ago. You're
getting you know, so you know what I mean, he's
still alive. I doubt it it is still alive. I

(35:48):
talked to his son, Yeah, but I doubted he was.
He was sickly back then, getting sickly. Like I said,
he was older, he was sick, the wheelchair all that
type of ship. So I wouldn't know if he passed
or not. But I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
Yeah, he's not functioning, you know either.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Way, So what sony did? They just stopped sending the
checks out. I guess they started, you know, they got
to the point where they wanted verification of who they
was the money to. And when you can't send a
nigga a copy of your motherfucking driver's license, and you
can't send a nigga no notarized copy and signature of

(36:28):
this and that, they just stopped paying the checks and
then they contact me twenty years later.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Right, it's crazy, man. It should be time for you
to get those masks back. No, you should be getting
those catalog back. The catalog back.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, my first CMW works. You know what I'm saying.
All of that is pre like ninety two, ninety three,
So you know you can call now.

Speaker 6 (36:56):
On the master and straight Back Music to try all
in early projects. Man, Sony's gonna want to They're not
gonna want to give you the Masterpact.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
They're gonna want to renegotiate and give you a high
I've been getting emails from them about all we want
to repress the Straight Trekking album.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
All we want to. You know.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
They they using their little side companies, Legacy Department, Legacy
there you go. Yeah, that's that's who contacted me, the
Legacy Department. So like they got a dude who calls me,
and who tells me when I'm getting checks and all
of that, like like, yeah, they they try, and that's

(37:43):
what I said they was gonna do. They don't want
to get a ship up. No, I'm going through that
with Sony right now. It's still their channels, you go.
You get what I'm saying. It's still going through their channels,
which means that whatever they collecting is still going to
their bank account. They still collecting interest in all that.

Speaker 6 (38:00):
All these labels, all these labels are in a fight
for market share, and they really don't want to give
nothing up. They want to keep market share, you know
what I'm saying. They want to keep all these records
they want to keep. It's a market share war between
these companies, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
And the thing with Legacy is too good. Legacys are profitable.
They've already been marketed already. And you did you Yeah,
can you have mentioned how much money you would make
if you started getting all your old album straight checking
them and you you press them up yourself, selling them
on the website. You can sell music to drive by

(38:35):
a fire four hundred dollars, bro, if you want to.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
You probably well, the thing is is that?

Speaker 6 (38:39):
I mean, yeah, you could that that would be one
option or the second options that you get your master's
back and then you just get them to you just
do it. You just do a license and deal with
them like a ninety ten like yeah, just keep it
in the loop. But I get ninety percent now you
know what I'm saying, or something like that. You know,
you got the python going, you know what.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
I will not the music?

Speaker 6 (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, let's do a ninety ten now, you know
what I'm saying instead of me getting uh, you know,
I got I got ten points in the artist woryalty
deal right right, Like, screw.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
That, man.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
You know what I'm saying, Hey, hey man, yeah, pretty
much you're pretty much a commodity. Yeah what I say
for the birds man, Hey hey, I got Sony guys
like you that I found millions for in the audit.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (39:33):
You know what I'm saying, just do just due to
the fact that you signed a pre digital contract, all
that DSP, all that streaming ship, they owe you fifty
percent through the licensing exactly. So if you're getting ten
points right now, you're actually being paid underpaid five times
under than just will be getting five times more to
money through streaming YouTube spot right now.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
We ain't had no deal for digital, Yeah exactly, We'll
just CVS and the fucking Alps. You do it right now,
one door. We didn't have no type of deal for
the albums. You do?

Speaker 5 (40:07):
How many albums you do through the Sony system?

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh? Ship at least at least twenty million?

Speaker 1 (40:14):
No?

Speaker 2 (40:14):
No, how many? How many?

Speaker 5 (40:15):
How many albums did you do?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
I did like Ship one, two, three, I did like
I did, like six albums for song I did like
albums for Sony.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
I need to I need to call you after this, man, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
What the thing it was? Do you remember a few
years ago I told you I had a dude that
was gonna help you out with your get your stuff.
This hit right here.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
I did that straight checking you did.

Speaker 6 (40:50):
To two c mws, and you did like four You
did like four solo thre you did like four solo life.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, yeah, I did. Uh. I I did one CMW
because the first CMW album was on Orpheus Capital that
was on Capitol Records.

Speaker 6 (41:07):
Okay, sons Universal owns that then now yeah, Capital says Universal.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
So but I did straight checking them. I did music
to drive By, We Come Strapped, Uh, death Threats and
last Man Stand. I did five albums with something Yeah, you.

Speaker 5 (41:26):
Need to holler at them.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
And none of those and none of those was for
streaming in digital, Yeah, exactly digital contract.

Speaker 6 (41:35):
Yeah, you need to holler at you all of a sudden,
you're gonna You're gonna pop up with seven figures on
the order for sure, I can guarantee.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
I got a client. I got a client that did
two albums with Sony.

Speaker 6 (41:47):
He's been dead twenty something years and we found like
almost three million on.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Him pre digital. I liked that word.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
I like that word still. Yeah, I told you get
all that dog, Yes, indeed they got. They ain't no
telling what they out there and don't collect it now Google.
You always hear rumors and stuff. I heard that biz
mark he is. You would think that, you don't, you

(42:17):
would think biz Marky wouldn't hurt a fly dog. I
heard biz was the most scanless dude in the world
when it came to published. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (42:24):
Man, sometimes sometimes you don't you don't want to meet
your heroes, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
I mean, I mean.

Speaker 6 (42:31):
Yeah, I mean, I've gotten you know, co partners and
other people like that, that he didn't abide by contractually.
You know, he didn't give them their divvy. You know
what I'm saying. And it's to catch me if you
can type thing now, you know what I'm saying. I mean,
it's it's it's quite unfortunate. I don't I don't really
think the wife understands what the catalog that she's holding.

(42:55):
There's there's there's there's money owed and stuff like that.
You know, just matter as if you know, she might
be feel like that she's a victim now because so
many people trying to higher at her about the money
and stuff like that. But you know, she just you know,
I think, you know, she got to come to an
understanding that he just didn't abide by his agreements.

Speaker 5 (43:12):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (43:13):
He was supposed to give one client, I know, like
you know, I think they had a production company together,
like a seventy thirty or sixty forty or something like that,
and you know, he never got he never got royalty one,
he never got a cent from one record, never got
acknowledged for one record ever done.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (43:31):
Through the Bismarck catalog, you know what I'm saying, and
you don't remember a lot of sample related stuff.

Speaker 5 (43:36):
Bismarck's probably the most.

Speaker 6 (43:38):
I would take a guess and say he's probably he
probably made the most money for CoA Chilling as an artist,
you know what I'm saying, just due to the fact
that he was sampled. He was probably sampled a little
bit more than some other guys, you know, like Mario
turned Mario hit just a Friend R and B record.
You know what I'm saying things like that. You know,
a lot of revenue was made through Bismarck. You know

(44:00):
I'm saying. I can't guarantee that he was the biggest,
uh royalty wise there, but there.

Speaker 5 (44:05):
Was a lot of money being made, you know.

Speaker 6 (44:07):
He had He also had other artists under there, Granddaddy,
I you, Diamond Shell, I think Kiri had his his
his first album through there, maybe a couple of other people.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
He put Granddaddy you.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Owned, Yeah, that was his that was his artist, Yeah,
and that you was signed to. He came through Epic
Street when I was over there.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Yes, yes, the second album, Yeah, the second album. He
came to Epics.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
So he came to epic.

Speaker 5 (44:37):
Yep, yep, exactly, good memory, yep, exactly yep.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Granddaddy you was hard man.

Speaker 6 (44:43):
I mean he died trying to chase the royalty. I
was trying to help him. Then all of a sudden,
I already passed away. You know what I'm saying. Now,
you know Warner owns the master end of Coach Chilling.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
Fly Tie sold the publishing portion because he was a
loud to because everybody he controlled the copy right, because
no one had a publish an entity. He sold that
to Charles Kopperman, a company called CAC Music. Charles copper
he got for it. I have no idea why I
suppose to. Charles Copperman told me that he felt like

(45:23):
he highly benefited from the fly Tie deal.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (45:25):
But he died when I was talking to him. We
were negotiating, trying to get Granddaddy you his money. All
of a sudden, he all of a sudden, he passed away,
you know what I'm saying. So we're fighting to try
to get the publisher. And now for the artist, where's tired?
I have no idea. I think somebody's one of my
clients yesterday said they sew him at a party last year.

(45:48):
I would assume he's in somewhere around New York.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Them dudes made a lot of money.

Speaker 6 (45:53):
Yeah, but you know that money cut It might have
came in one. I think he sold that catalog in
the late nineties or something. You know what I'm saying. Yeah,
you know what you was over there, Molly Ma, Molly Mars.
You know, Molly Ma was the co chilling producer pretty much.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yes, And he's pretty sure he's not getting what he's
supposed to get though, because he built they whole. For
a while, he was just the man out there.

Speaker 5 (46:15):
Molly Ma was the He might have been the only
producer over there, right right right.

Speaker 6 (46:20):
Eight for a while, right, I mean, I don't remember
anybody else for a while, the whole.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Car over there. Indeed, Okay, he was one of them.
You come through cold chilling, your beat is getting done
by Marley Ma. That was all of them. Shante uh
is cool g motherfucker. Craig G came and came, yeah, yeah, try.

(46:45):
They all went through Marley.

Speaker 5 (46:49):
Yeah, Molly's house and hits he hits the studio of State,
New York.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Let me ask you this, bro.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
Then he came out with goes to the Underground off
off co chilling, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Right right right, when you have guys like that. Man, See,
his most lucrative years were back then. It's not like
he's producing a lot of hip hop records right now.
So I think it's very important.

Speaker 6 (47:14):
Catalog is crazy, though, bro onemost catalogue is crazy.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's the joints man. And
think about it now, Think about how many people don't
went back to him.

Speaker 6 (47:25):
I don't know if he got points. I don't know
if gave him points for publishing wise. A lot of
people seeing this stuff. Man, nah's this person, that person,
this person, that person. So he got extended catalog, you
know what I mean? He might have another eighty records
just from sample lated records derivatives.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Mm, exactly. You think about it like this, Hey, he
was the man?

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Oh definitely.

Speaker 6 (47:48):
I guess when you would you, Hey, would you consider
him like the East Coast j at one point?

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Oh? Hell yeah, I would say so.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Around that time, Yeah, he he He touched a lot
of motherfuckers and ship like you said, a lot of
niggas then spunked off from this. Mama said, knock you
out killers like killers like shit, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
He was the man. He really, he really was the
sound of New York kind of for a long time.
It was like and they was bumping out everywhere.

Speaker 5 (48:22):
I don't I don't know anybody bigger at that time.

Speaker 6 (48:24):
I mean there was competitors Herbie Lovebug and guys like that,
but they weren't. They were ma you know what I'm saying.
I mean, God bless you, but mar marm was getting
all the work.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Herbie love Bug was just more or less known for
everybody kind of had their own producers back then. Everybody
kind of had their own look like.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Oh yeah, you were to your people's ship. You go
outside the box, you know, Once a nigga turned you
on to a producer, that was it. You rolled with
that producer and ship. You didn't you didn't try to
go like we wasn't big on that, you know, back
in the days, like oh he doing beats and he

(49:04):
doing beats and he doing beats. No, we considered that
like within the crew, you get me, I'm the rapper,
he the DJ, he the beat maker, he the motherfucking muscle,
and then that's how we roll. And so projects we
don't go like, oh you heard that new Cube album

(49:27):
or the new NWA or blah blah blah, and go, oh,
we need to go get it. Dra was hard, but
we didn't go, yeah, we need to go get a
beat from Dre. Oh, so you weren't thinking nothing like that.
We didn't. We didn't go we Pool was hard, but
we didn't go, we need to go get a beat
from Pool. Get slip handles, slip handles the production so

(49:51):
there's no there's no offens of butts, you know, slipped
into anything. A motherfucking need to be done, so we
don't need to go get this. The slipped to do
just as good. And so that's how it was settled.
We didn't run around trying to because we wanted to
keep our sound, you get me. And back then we

(50:13):
were very we're very high on not fucking with the formula.
You get me, like, you know, fuck with the formula.
Slip drums, that's what he does, Like we're not gonna
turn you know. We wasn't big back then on having
our album sounding all over the play.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
What did y'all What did y'all use back then? Like
an SP twelve or NPC, an SPN once the MPs came.
He used the MP. The Slip was an SP twelve
hundred Master, and he was one of those motherfuckers who
would dig in the crates. You get I'm gonna fine shit,
I'm not gonna automatically go to what the supposedly sound is.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
You get me. Body was using the Funkadelics and the
motherfucking Funky Worms and the Party George Clinton's and the
Fat Backs and everybody was using that ship. We wanted
to be different, Like, I don't want to wrap on
what everybody rapping on. It's so cliche. He typed bullshit.
So Slip Slip came up with our own sound. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
You got to think about to Slip was really digging
them crazies. Y'all had samples. Y'all was the first one
to come up with certain samples. Then I would here
a few years later other cats, you know, flipping them samples.
Y'all sit what you say?

Speaker 6 (51:39):
So Slip was even doing the production when you and solo, Yeah, oh.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Okay, mm hmm. When I went solo. Uh, we used
to split production. We had formed the production team Halfhounds
Productions and we used Splip Productions. Slip used to do
half for the record, and I used to do the
other half or after while. I didn't play keys, but

(52:05):
I had I was producing. I had to. I had
all the equipment in my studio, and I would bring
in the dude to play bass lines and play with whatever,
and then after he would lay that and I would
two track it or whatever. I turned around and come
up with the drum track. That's how I did. That's

(52:25):
how I did my music. And if I wanted some
of that extra difficult ship, I let slip do it.
Slip out of cutting chop and slip take a motherfucking
voice and make a whole beat out of the motherfucker ship.
He made a motherfucking beat out of a commercial we
heard on TV.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Nigga.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
We were sitting uploaded one night, and that's how he
came up with straight checking them.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Nigga went doom, doom, doom. Hey, don't say what commercial that.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
S? I?

Speaker 2 (53:06):
He said, what commercial it is? Yet I'm just saying,
but yeah, Nigga dropped the motherfucker up like Nigga what
like like a motherfucker sushi chef. Nigga shop up bigger.
I came back a couple of hours later, nigga, he
was banging that ship boom boom bom boom boom. I'm

(53:27):
like this nigga crazy is but he was just he
was creative. You didn't get get a lot of niggas
like that. Like I said, nigga, a lot of niggas
was simple with they beat making. Slip was a creative
motherfucker you feel you know what?

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Bro Yeah, either because he probably could have had some
hill of a placements back things, y'all was big dude.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
We we did our thing. Like I said, we just
was one of those. It was one of those groups
who just fell in between the cracks on certain ship.
It niggas didn't know what to do with us. You
give me.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
To do.

Speaker 5 (54:05):
You guys did six projects, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
I mean, well they you know back like that well
back yeah, you know, back then that was the era
if you sold enough records, you get another you get
another record. And so we was having seven album record
deals and indeed you had to just be But see,

(54:29):
my thing was I sold records for Sony. You get me.
My records would go four fifty three eighty era, that
era that was significant for yeah, for for my type
of ship, because we don't even fuck with this type
of ship. And look what's happening. We're selling fucking half

(54:51):
a million records.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
No marketing money.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
They wasn't doing ship for me. They wasn't doing a
goddamn thing for me. Just off the strength of of
of ship, like your MTV raps and and Source magazine.
That's where they knew where to go because they knew
at that time everybody was stumbling through the Source, everybody
was watching the basement of rap City, and so they

(55:18):
just put me on there. Let's have an interview on
rap City, Let's put his face inside the Source magazine
and being being that's how I saw records and just
the work.

Speaker 6 (55:27):
Are you able to extend overseas a little bit from
any of that?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
I just I just came back from overseas.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Last week.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Okay, I go overseas at least once every two years.
You still you still do the CMW music too, That's
all they want to hear. They're way in no new ship.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
You know what I'm saying. Besides the solo stuff, they
still still you still do.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Yeah, I do all CMW ship, I go on tour,
I do everything from the CMW era that crosses over
into the MC eight solo era. So but everybody still
look at it as it's it's still one thing, like
Most Wanted. You could say MC eight, but at the

(56:18):
end of the day, they're all in one. You get me.
You listen to Contor's Most Wanted records, you're not hearing
two people. You only hear me. Even though we were
contens Most Wanted that I kept that going until Sony
decided we ain't gonna do that no more. But I
never thought about going from Contor's Most Wanted to MC eight.

(56:42):
If I'd had my way out of still, I'd still
be going CMW to this day.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Wow, you know what's funny, man, I remember you talked
about the Source magazine. I remember, Man, I had the
Source and I was reading the Source. You know, that
was the Bible back then. And they had a big
ad near man for music to drive by, and I
went and bought that CD from Tower and Lakewood. Either
Tower or we was the warehouse. You went to warehouse

(57:13):
the warehouse because I went out it was across the
street from the mall right there.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Because it was on Yeah, we said it was on
candle Wood once you got into.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
I was in the Barns and Noble reading the saurs
right because Maria was shopping, my wife was shopping. We
kids back then, right, and I looked. I said, this
is hard because the album cover just really cut my eye. Right.
I went from there and we was on the way
back to the crib. I stopped at. I stopped at
the warehouse, bought that in something else.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Yeah, that's how we that's how we cover the sauce.
I was on the I was on the cover of
The Source twice. I had the solo cover and then
I had to cover with me Spice and uh, scar Face.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
They said the ministers against the rip.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
That's uh. That's basically was my marketing.

Speaker 6 (58:08):
Four issue where you were you and and there's a
ninety five.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
One, right I did. I did the ninety four edition
right after I did Music to Drive By. That album
was in ninety three, so I got on the cover
with Face and Spice for that one. But yeah, that
was the way they marketed me. They wasn't gonna they
didn't They didn't go to radio. They didn't go to

(58:34):
advertising on radio or you know, paying them up for
her to play my song ten million times, they said,
fuck that, We're just gonna keep it in publications, and
that's how they marketed.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
I mean I was buying all the back then.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
I mean a lot of us was. I was buying
that ship to see who was hot it was, who
was on the mixtape, you know who, album was raided
this or that? And then sometimes a lot of the times,
I want to read the articles you get when they
do those big layouts on the nigga. I want to
I was interested. I want you came up from and

(59:12):
what he went through and what and you know how
he get to this point right now, because you had
to be a nice artist to get one of them
full paid spread. You get me. You got special back
then exactly, or they could just take what you know what, man,

(59:33):
anybody I want I want to believe that half the
time that you know, they were putting niggas on because
they were truly gifted and deserved it, and not the
nigga just sent them a check for one hundred grand.
You get me. Now, we already know some artists, you know,
that's the way it went.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Yeah, some people definitely was paying like the way, but
for the most part, the source used to get it
right when it came to that dog. So I don't
I don't think they. I think they were so they
were so in tune with the culture at the time. Man,
that was like probably the best hip hop publication ever
because they really made a break. If you saw somebody
in there had three or four mics, if you saw

(01:00:19):
a five mic, you want to go by that album
because it was like it was official and they was
on point with it. But I do think they had
a lot of West Coast bias back then. I heard
that was true. Sore and told me that, and he
said that they was very biased against the West Coast
back then.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
I'm sure they weren't East Coast publication, Like, you know,
why would I why would I give any love to
the West Coast. We're East Coast publication. You know, go
start your own motherfucking magazine. But ye said, you give

(01:00:57):
me fuck that we represent the East Coast. I never
had no issue with the motherfuckers they always heard like
when Benzeno, when when they we went to go fuck
with them, you know, had the issue with them. They
put me on the cover twice.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I had Hey, you had love from New York, New York. Look,
you probably got more love in New York. You get
a lot of love out here, bro, But between the
Midwest and the East Coast, dog, I think you probably
got a popping more out there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
And you do what did you do a song with
Premiere a couple of years ago?

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Your Premiere's my butt, that's my peep. I heard it.
I remember the track that you. I did a whole
project with Premiere back in twenty seventeen. Okay, yeah, we
did a project together. Even before the end.

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
No song, I still listened to swear I swear my mother, Bro,
that song, I'd be in the gym.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Listen the ship that you do with Pebob Oh. Yeah,
One Life to Live? Yeah, Bro, my son one of
my favorite songs on that on that project, I did
that song and my son wasn't even born, and he
loved that song to death right now, one of his
favorite songs. And it kind of fucked me up because

(01:02:10):
you know, the youth they into they shit, man, You
don't particularly think that, you know, Motherfucker's twenty one and
under is gonna be banging MC eight, But now that record,
but that was my shit. Shit, he loved that shit. Nigga,
I was in the motherfucking uh. Where was I at?

(01:02:34):
Where the fuck was I at? I can't even think
where I was at. Now, I'm in the store somewhere. No,
I'm in the gym. I'm in the gym, chopping it
up with one of my boys, and I see his
dad walking by with his two kids. They couldn't have
been no more. They couldn't have been no more than

(01:02:54):
fucking ten and twelve. You get me, nigga. The youngest
one stopped turning around and said, MC eight is that
you can I take a picture with you. I'm looking
at myself, like, where this little kid know me from?

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
But the younger generation is starting to get a little
open to you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
You hear me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Fuck, they heard me fuck with Kendrick. A lot of
them play the Grand Theft Auto Game and recognize me
from there. So that's where the youth is connecting because
a lot of them still on that game and ship
and a lot of them still bumps Kendrick's first project,
You get Me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Yeah, And it's a lot of people to play. There's
a lot of people to play that game, Like you say,
it et a lot of them, man, You wiels m
c eight. Man, I ain't gonna let you keep sitting
there and sleep on yourself, you wiel m c eight.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
I just be mind. I just be trying to be mellow. Man,
you feel me. I want to go here, man, I
want to go to the grocery shot store and pick
up my dog food without you know, niggas and paparazzi
all outside. And I like that type of lifestyle though

(01:04:10):
I don't. I don't mind it. I don't complain about it.
You get me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
And I was never the type to bother people when
I saw them out in public, probably because I was
always hanging out. You know, DJ Bob Cat is my
god brother, right, so I was always with Bob, and
I was used to being around you know, people, celebrities
and stuff. So I never went and bothered people because
I used to hate with me and Bob. Or be
somewhere and people are come and try to solicit. You

(01:04:33):
know what I'm saying. It's like you're trying to eat
your food or whatever, and somebody's trying to give you
a CD. You feel an a tape back then you
know somebody's trying to give you a tape, give you
their dem one stuff. Bro. People just don't want to
be bothered. So I never was wanting to just run
up on people in pupplic Hey, man, can I hear
you autographic? Hey man, I bump? Now if I saw him,
I might say, man, I like your shit or whatever
like that. But I kept it moving, right, I kept

(01:04:56):
it pushing. So gon goog, where can people? You just
don't mess with anybody, or do you?

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:05:04):
You know I listened to everybody that got a case.
You know what I'm saying. I mean, if it makes sense,
you know, we you know, we try to make it happen.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Now, I'm gonna give you all the plug, the gun,
the homye man, but don't be hitting them up. If
you don't sold ten records to the Empire, and you're
talking about empire, owe you some money. You know, you
don't have time to fuck with nothing like that. This
is for the major the majors out there that might
have got robbed, might have got jerked. I'm pretty sure y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Got legacy, the legacy artists.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
DJ quick, how that how that gone go? Because I'm
gonna tell you when you see a pulling up in
the Rose Royce seven eight months.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
From good You know what I'm saying, Legacy artists, they
you know, I relate to them.

Speaker 6 (01:05:50):
They kind of motivate me more than dealing with these
young guys, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:05:54):
Like if I'm like, you.

Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
Know, like it's it's so, it's just it feels like
it's like one of my peers or something.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
You know what I mean. I'm pretty sure. I'm almost
positive dog that this man right here got a lot
more money out there. I'm pretty sure DJ quickly he
was on the more Scaler's record label in the world.

Speaker 5 (01:06:14):
I mean profile, like I said, I just don't.

Speaker 6 (01:06:17):
I mean, I got clients right now that haven't been
you know, you're supposed at least get a quarterly of
by annual royalty statement and things like that. You know,
I got clients like, I haven't got it. I haven't
got a statement in five six years or something like that.
Then he might give you one statement and then he'll
disappear again for another five years.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
You know what one told me he has never seen
an album royalty. He said, I ain't never seen a
royalty chick.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
What I said, I've never seen a royalty check until
Nigga last year thirty years later until last year, until
late was like nigga, where you've.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Been Damn there forty years later.

Speaker 5 (01:07:00):
I mean, at least they're paying you forward, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:07:04):
But you know, I just believe that there's a guy
like you that did that many projects.

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
There's definitely more than that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Yeah, they still got some more, definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Maybe what's the name of your business?

Speaker 5 (01:07:17):
Copyright maintenance?

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Copyright man? That sound, what is copyright maintenance? They come
in the rerec shop. So you stealing mass record labels
out there? My man gongu is coming for you. He
gonna come and lift the covers off your ass and
expose everything, every everything going on.

Speaker 6 (01:07:34):
You know what, Michael Jacksons, Bro, you're about to sething
about to happen to me the way you're picking me up.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Well, you know what, man, The thing is this, It's
always been real simple to me because I'm a businessman.
You make you take whatever you spent back. Like, if
you spend some money, you you you're supposed to recoup
your money, right. But whatever situation you got with somebody,
you give them, they bread, you take yours, so y'all
can keep doing it. You don't rob nobody's stuff, browing

(01:08:02):
just off on a pocket disc and let them just
going to go to ublivty. I don't care because the
thing is without the talent, you ain't shit.

Speaker 6 (01:08:11):
I hey, you man, I think they think it's a
diamond dozen And I think they think that they can
take your money and you're still gonna come and perform
and try to do another album. You know what I'm saying.
They just think they got it like that, you know
what I'm saying. But I mean, I just think it's
a new regime. You know what I'm saying. We're trying
to change the game a little bit, you know what
I'm saying. You know, I mean, I've seen people all
my life, you know, get jerked, you know, from deals

(01:08:31):
and stuff like that, from all ages.

Speaker 5 (01:08:34):
And it's gotta be somebody, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:08:36):
Somebody's somebody's gotta you know, I think there's just needs
to be more of me, you know, people even greater.

Speaker 5 (01:08:42):
You know what I'm saying. You gotta have a little heart,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
They get some guys out here. I got to shut
off the hommie jazzy jazzy management. You know, Jazzy is
pretty good at what he do. He recovers a lot
of stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:08:54):
Okay, good for him.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
He goes out and recovers a lot of money for cats.
So there's a few casts out here, but it's also
a whole.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
But we need to vote Tron. We need to be
a whole. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Why why you got good dudes like you and Jazzy?
What makes it bad? Is this a whole bunch of
Shade tree as motherfuckers too that go out there.

Speaker 6 (01:09:15):
And then steal you feel I'm saying, they're with a
minority man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
It's it's it's it's easy.

Speaker 6 (01:09:23):
It's easy to beat us up because you know, there's
only two in the park and there's five hundred of them.
You know what I'm saying, be running, you know what
I'm saying. It's like, yeah, you know what I'm saying.
It's like, you know, this is an easy look. Oh,
they might've got him, but they didn't get all these
other people, you know what I'm saying. So it's like
I'm only picking little pieces, getting this guy, Getting this guy. Bro,
there's another thousand, two five to ten twenty thousand artists

(01:09:46):
out there that are going through the same thing. You
know what I'm saying. It's like, Bro, how many people
am I helping a year? You know what I'm saying,
It's nothing compared to what's out there. Am I really
making a dent? I don't know. You know what I'm saying.
You know what I'm saying, less than one percent of
the industry exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
I'm a linked I'm gonna link you, says, Yeah, Gongoo,
wish your Instagram.

Speaker 6 (01:10:08):
Bro, Hey, man, g O n g u Roach, g
o n g gongo roach Instagram.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Hit me in the d M. Let's chop it up
and see what I can do for you.

Speaker 5 (01:10:20):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Yeah, and you know, before we go home.

Speaker 6 (01:10:24):
Website, I got the website coming. It's already I already
made it, but I just haven't really posted it. But
that's copyright maintenance. Should be copyright maintenance dot com something
like that. I mean, I'll put it in my tags
sooner or later, probably within the next couple of days
or so. But for right now, just reach me at
gongoach at at in the DM and you can go

(01:10:44):
watch my YouTube videos and YouTube you know what I'm saying.
And I tell you you know, I'll tell you what
my forte is and hopefully you're inspired by it to
give me a call.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Yeah for sure. And on that note right there, I
want to tell everybody something, man, life short, don't spend
it on bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
We got here, hey man, Thank you once again.

Speaker 5 (01:11:06):
It's one of my more favorite interviews.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Man.

Speaker 6 (01:11:09):
You know, I get to talk to and talk about
all this old stuff about this makes me feel like
I was like seventeen eighteen.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
I'll be telling I'll be telling a man because sometimes
I feel bad because we have somebody on the show
and eight be on the road or something, something be happening,
and then you could tell they don't want to stay like,
you know you cool and stuff. They're like, man, damn,
eight was here because I wanted to meet him. You
know what I'm saying. I'm like, dog, don't worry, we
gonna get you back on We interviewed one of the
homies and I tell you, man, I promise you when

(01:11:41):
they come back, we got.

Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
You, hey man. Anytime you need man here, man.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
I sure you. Thank you, Bro, I'm gonna get with
you that actually we out here. They don't need to
hear all this. Hold on for sure,