December 22, 2025 • 34 mins
It’s December 2nd 2024. After flying under the radar for decades, Detective Roger Golubski has finally been arrested. So the girlfriends drive over to the courthouse for the first day of a trial that will shake them to the core.
US resources for Violence and Sexual Assault: https://rainn.org/
International resources for Violence and Sexual Assault: https://nomoredirectory.org/
US Suicide & Crisis Helpline: https://988lifeline.org/
International Suicide & Crisis Helplines: https://blog.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Nikki. We left on a pretty dramatic moment
last time. We'll pick up where we left off, but
first I wanted to let you know that while you'll
hear from a group of women who found community and
purpose in the process of rallying together, this episode will
include stories about violence, murder, suicide, and sexual assault. Some
(00:24):
of the victims are miners, and you'll hear quite a
lot of strong language. If you or someone you love
has been affected by any of the themes in the show.
We've left some links in the description that offer resources
and support. Take care of yourself. Kadij and I remember
(00:46):
exactly where we were on September fifteenth, twenty twenty two.
I think everyone in our community does.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I think I was sitting in the living room and
I got a phone call.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I was in my bedroom. I got the text, and
think got paced on my balcony, just back and forth.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, I just couldn't sit I just couldn't sit down
because I just couldn't believe. I couldn't believe it was actually.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, it was. It was surreal. I definitely had a
feeling that God was on duty. No, I always say
God to be patient. God is on duty that morning.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It really felt like he was because after years of campaigning,
Roger Gallupski was finally in handcuffs. So George read him
each of his charges, and in response, he seemed pretty animated,
appearing shocked and surprise, raising his head and his eyebrows.
(01:38):
Remember Ophelia Williams, the mother of twins who said Gallupski
assaulted her after arresting her sons. She and an anonymous
woman who also claimed Gallupski had assaulted her had quietly
spent years working with the FBI to share information about
what had happened to them. That helped build a case
(02:02):
that led to Gazupski being arrested on the charges of
kidnap and sexual assault on September fifteenth, twenty twenty two.
The documents filed for the case were damning. Ophilia and
the anonymous woman who goes by s K described Glupski's
abuse in depth. I won't go into the details, but
(02:26):
it was violent, not consensual, and left both women traumatized.
Gallupski is taken to his first court appearance on the
day of his arrest. He pleads not guilty, but that
(02:46):
September arrest is just the start when it hits the news.
Kadija and I spend hours on the phone talking to
people who want to share their Glupski stories. We redirect
them to lawyers and watch on in awe as we
realize the work we've dedicated years of our lives too
(03:08):
is finally moving things in the right direction. It isn't
all plane selling, though. Gallupski has a range of health issues,
including kidney failure, which requires regular dialysis, so he's put
on house arrests as he awaits trial. There is a
(03:30):
lot of controversy surrounding that house arrest. Some of the
victims are outraged that he's allowed to stay living at home,
and in January twenty twenty four, someone takes a photo
that shows Gallupski out at a fast food place. Trips
out to a burger joint were not included in the
terms of a house arrest for a man accused of
(03:52):
serious violent crimes, but we push all of that to
the side and stay focused on our goal. Justice of
philia in the anonymous victim's case meant a lot to us.
It only involved two victims, but we knew that if
Gulubski was found guilty, it could open the floodgates for
(04:16):
even more women to get their day in court. So
we were hopeful, but that anticipation came with nerves.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I think for about a week straight. I went to
bad crying, and I woke up crying. It's just like
you could feel something in the air.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Emotions were running high. We were anxious and felt a
little off balance, but we were determined to see it
through because after years of investigating and fighting for justice,
the first day of Roger Glubski's trial was finally here.
(05:02):
On the morning of December second, twenty twenty four, a sharp,
icy chill descends over Kansas City, Kansas. It's the first
truly cold day of the winter, and if I didn't
need to be out of the house by nine am,
I would stay inside. But this is the day we've
all been waiting for, and no amount of ice, wind
(05:25):
or snow can stop me from driving over to the
Topeka courthouse. I get into my car, but the GPS
is playing up. It keeps sending me to the wrong place.
So I call Kadija and we agree to meet up
just before the trial begins.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And in a car we talked about how luting of
a day it was it was probably the worst day
of the year, right now, Oh you know if that
day was cold.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Kadizu arrives a little earlier than me. It's around nine
to twenty five am when our taxi pulls up outside
the courthouse. She steps into the courthouse to warm up,
stands in the reception to shelter from the cold. But
when she walks in, she's greeted by a staff member
who tells her that things aren't going according to plan.
(06:15):
The trial isn't going to start on time. Why go?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Lucie is missing, and I'm like, he's missing?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You know?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
At this point my jaw is like what.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I'm Nikki Richardson from The Teams A novel and iHeart podcast.
This is the Girlfriend's Untouchable, You big guy, Episode seven,
(07:10):
The Reckoning. When I park outside the courthouse that morning,
Kadija heads straight towards my car.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
They can't find his ass.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
They can't find him?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Work? They can't find him. Stay about to issue a
warrant and go look for this motherfucker? Are you safe?
I'm serious? Have my whole mouth drop who.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Was supposed to be keeping hands on him? I don't
fucking know Glupski was on house arrests with the understanding
that he would make his own way to court. But
his car isn't parked outside the courthouse and he's not
picking up his phone, so the judge presiding over the
trial puts out a warrant for his arrest. Kadiza tries
to explain it to me, but it just doesn't make
(08:00):
any sense.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
NICKI all the shit I was not expected.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Keeping track of him he is. I'm so dumbfounded. This
was just not what I expected. Kadija and I are
at a complete standstill for a moment, trying to figure
out what to do while we wait for Glupski to arrive.
You hungry, No, damn, Nikki, I don't even I mean,
(08:30):
my my brain was already prepared to go sit in court.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
They said if they could find him about one o'clock.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Then they would they would try to continue on with
the trial. Well, he's gonna have some explaining to do.
I mean that already starts him off real bad. Even
if they do find him.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I think this motherfucker's dog.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
He had probably left the fucking guns me though she
ain't coming. You know, Niko has a crazy ass sixth sense.
But she kept saying it's gonna be shit. She kept
saying it to me, And here where we are.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
While Kadija and I sit in the car waiting for
Gulupski to be found and brought to court, Nico is
at home. She had been anxiously tossing and turning her
way through the early morning.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
The day before his trail that Sunday. I could not sleep,
I couldn't I couldn't rest.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Nico desperately wanted justice for her younger self, her older
sister Stacy, and all the women she loved and lost
whose lives had crossed paths with Roger Gallupski. Gallupski going
on trial felt like the first step towards that.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I had a feeling of like butterflies, all kind of
emotions was going through me. I just was able to
go to sleep. At about seven or eight that morning.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
She can't fall into a deep sleep, so she glances
over at her phone.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I had about twenty misco.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Kadija and I are still sitting in the car trying
to figure out what's gone wrong. But then we get
a call.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Nico called me cry and she said her, lay, You're
told her he's dead.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It's nine to fifty five am. We're supposed to be
sitting in court in five minutes, but according to Nico
and her lawyer, Roger Gulupski is dead. Kadiji and I
don't know what to do, so we just sit in
the car, shell shocked as we try to wrap our
(10:44):
minds around it. That must have been in shields I
felt this morning. We sit on our phones desperately refreshing
the news for an official statement, details or an explanation,
and then I get a text. He was found dead
in his home where you found out?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Guys might just message to me.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Details slowly begin to filter through. At six am that morning,
Roger Gulubski wakes up to get ready for the first
day of his trial. At seven oh three am, he
calls up his son Matthew and tells him he is
not strong enough to do this. Still, he gets dressed
(11:31):
and prepares to head over to the courthouse. At around
eight twenty am, he takes a call from his lawyer's office.
It lasts one minute and eleven seconds. At eight thirty
he leaves the house and gets into his twenty eleven
red fod Taurusts. He makes his way down Ninth Street
(11:52):
to Edwardsville Drive, but doesn't reach the interstate. Instead, he
hits around about and heads back home. At nine oh one,
he calls his attorney again. They talk for a few minutes,
(12:12):
the call ends. Glupski's lawyer's office tries to call him
four more times, but he doesn't pick up. A few
minutes later, a nine to one one call comes from
the woman who's been living with Gallupski during his house arrest.
She tells the operator that she was inside when she
(12:34):
heard a loud bang. She says she ran out of
the house and onto the back porch. According to her,
Roger Glubski is sitting on the floor, still holding a pistol.
He was pronounced dead at nine to eighteen am, just
(12:57):
forty two minutes before we thought we would be in
court for jury selection. The cause of death suicide. Kadija
and I sitting shock as we read the news.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Wow make you said, like you drop a motherfucker to
kill yourself just a little bit, don't it Just it's
it's not the best feeling in the world. It's a
(13:33):
fucked up, fast feeling right now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, because that's not the way I expected it to.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
End on the day of motherfucker, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I mean, at least let them have their day in court,
but he wasn't gonna let anybody have that satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
We didn't know what to do really from there. We
kind of just sat with it on the side of
the road for probably about five minutes. For we we
did anything, just sitting there, like in Ah. It felt
like life was sucked out of Topeka. It's probably on
(14:12):
the news.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It's kind of work. What we doom?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
What the fuck we do? I don't know? Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
As soon as the news breaks that Roger Glupski is
the conspiracy theories start coming out.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Is he really dead?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
That's like one of the biggest questions to me, because
he felt as though he was very untouchable.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's Trina Cooper who we heard from last time. Her mother, Dorothy,
was murdered in the eighties and Glupski was the officer
she met while trying to reopen the investigation.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I have questions, That's why I ask, like, is.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
He really dead? Trina isn't the only one who doubts
the official statement about what happened that morning. We hear
theories all day. Some people think Gallupski's hiding out in
rural Kansas, living with distant relatives in Missouri. Others say
he's taken a flight and fled to a country that
doesn't have an extradition treaty with America. But there's another
(15:48):
theory that starts to gain a lot of traction amongst
the community.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
If he is dead, someone took his life. Well, Gulupski
taking his own life. No, you can't give me believe that.
And I really feel as though it happened because everyone
else was going to be exposed.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I'll be honest. It's a theory. I consider that morning,
Glupski's trial had the potential to implicate and expose other people,
potentially dangerous, powerful people. In the moment, Kadija and I
can't help but wonder whether there was a person or
group of people desperate enough to protect themselves that they
(16:33):
would want Gallupski dead. But we never get evidence to
give weight to any of those theories, so we sit
with the official statement that Glupski's death was a suicide.
The rest of that morning is a whirlwind. We spend
(16:53):
hours on the phone talking to the Department of Justice,
who reached out to see how they could support us,
and we spoke to lists looking for more information.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Hey, I don't know if you heard the news, but
Roger Glusi didn't show off of court this morning and
they found him dead in his home.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
To clarify, Kadijia and I are not lawyers or public officials. Still,
that morning, we find ourselves being called upon like unofficial spokeswomen,
and I'll be honest, it's kind of stressful. By eleven am,
the adrenaline rush is beginning to wear off, so we
(17:35):
make an executive decision to drive across Topeka and get
some lunch.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I'm just gonna go with the burger with cheese.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I'm trying to think how big my stomach is about
to be. Let's just do a fullord of biscuits and gravy.
It's one of the most disappointing days of our lives.
But for most people in that diner, it's just a
regular Monday. They're grabbing lunch, seeing friends and having casual conversations.
Their indifference underscores how fucking surreal our day has been.
(18:06):
After a frantic morning outside the courthouse, things are finally
beginning to slow down, and for the first time since
hearing the news, we just sit down and eat and
open up about how we're really feeling.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I couldn't find all this, and I think it's because
my spirit kind of met could feel the intensity of it.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's such a tragic ending, I mean, because if he
wanted to end it, he could have ended in it.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
It didn't have to be the day of the pluck
and drown.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You just have so many questions, but that has been
this entire process. Is just having so many questions, and
it just feels so unresolved, you know, because there's no
justice at this point, because at least they're able to
at least it's suicide and the mission of guilt. No, no,
(19:02):
unless he left the known with the confession.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I'm really worried about Nitho.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
He too, worried about all of them.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Really, Niko, Yeah, Nico, Vones, matter of fact, Len he called.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Them n.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Hey, Nico, how are you feeling bad?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Hurt?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I'm angry?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
He said, your hurt and you're angry.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Gulupski's trial was supposed to last weeks and end on
January fifteenth, twenty twenty five. One day before the twenty
fifth anniversary of Nico's older sister Stacy's murder. Nico had
thought the trial ending with Gulupski behind bars would give
her a sense of closure, but him killing himself before
(19:55):
he could face up to what he'd done devastated her.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I wanted to be able to face him and ask
him why and why is he lying? Asking him, plead
with him to tell the truth on up to what
you've done. You have lived your life. I wanted an
apology for everything that he's done.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The reality of the situation is beginning to sink in
for Niko. There isn't going to be a trial. Glupski
is never going to see his day in court, and
after a lifetime of heurt, his victims still aren't going
to get the justice they deserved. She isn't the only
(20:49):
one feeling that way. LaMotte McIntyre spent twenty three years
in prison after being arrested by Roger Glupski, who had
sexually assaulted his mother Rose. It was getting ready to
drive over to Topeka in anticipation of the first day
of the trial when he heard the news.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
I just wanted to see him face his accusers. And
face the people who he had wrong. That's what the
just system is designed to do, to help the victims
of society get justice by way of the people who
wronged them. And I was expecting my mother to experience that. Yeah,
I felt like I was robbed. I lost something. For
a moment, I feel like share lots of opportunity to
(21:29):
face my accuser or face this man who did this
shit to my mom.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
As Kadejah and I sit in the diner eating lunch,
we get calls from victims, survivors, witnesses, and loved ones
reaching out to us for answers, but we don't have them.
For a while, we'd allowed ourselves to believe that if
(21:55):
we worked hard enough, pushed the right people, and kept fighting,
we could change things, prove that nobody, even a powerful
police officer, was untouchable. But it doesn't feel true now.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I just wish I could go somewhere and just scream,
Like if we could just go somewhere and just scream,
just like over and over, just scream.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
It's a tough morning, but as we work through our emotions,
we come to some conclusions. It isn't our fault that
Gelupski is dead or that the authority supervising his house
arrest failed to find and confiscate his gun. The women
of Kansas City, Kansas have been failed time and time
(22:42):
again by the authorities meant to protect them. But we
can't lose hope, even in the midst of what feels
like an impossible situation. Because ksey K is our home.
We love it too much to give up. We have
no tree choice but to channel our despair into determination.
(23:05):
So we dry our tears, leave the diner, and get
to work.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
I got you, I Got You.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
The months that followed Glupski's death were unsettling. The authorities
didn't come forward with a solid explanation for how Glupski
had been able to get and keep a gun on
house arrest. Kadija and I kept rewinding the tape, playing
the years leading up to his death back in our
minds and trying to figure out what could have been
(23:54):
done to get justice sooner. We hope that if we
could trace things back to the start, we might be
able to figure out what to do next. So as
we tried to make sense of Glupski's death and the
questions that left us with, we turned to the only
concrete thing. We had the dozens of interviews, folders worth
of evidence, and numerous affidavits that had been collected over
(24:16):
the years. We were looking for answers, or at least clues,
anything we might have missed the first time around. We
wanted to find something that might give the dozens of
women whose stories we've heard some form of closure or
better yet, justice, whatever that might look like. Digging through
(24:40):
the files, we came across the formal statement made by
one of the police officers who worked with Glupski, Max Seifert.
When we spoke to him, he confirmed that many people
turned a blind eye to what Glupski was doing during
his time working for the KCKPD. In his statement, Max
go's so far as to say all of the detectives,
(25:03):
along with older officers and the commanders, all knew. No
one in the department questioned Gulupski's conduct, No one raised
any questions about whether it was proper or could cause
a problem of any kind. This was not news to us,
but still it was shocking to see it on paper,
see a legal document that outlined how people and positions
(25:27):
of power had seemingly allowed this to happen. There was
something else in Max's declaration that jumped out to us.
He draws attention to the fact that these women were
often poor and vulnerable, and that Gallupski would be seen
in places like housing projects or while leaving cheap hotels
(25:50):
where prostitutes were known to serve their customers housing projects.
We knew he targeted vulnerable women, but how far did
he take it? As we dug a little deeper, we
came across the statement of someone we'd never heard of before. Yeah,
(26:12):
have you seen this before? I think this is the
first time I've seen this.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
This is the first time I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It was a six page affidavid signed by a woman
named Tina Peterson. It formed part of the case Lamont's
team brought a few years ago to sue the Unified
government for their role in his false conviction. You reading
it now, Yeah, I'm starting to make some connections that
are made me very right. Tina's affidavid jumped out at
(26:39):
us because her story takes us back to the mid
nineteen eighties, right around the time that Gelupski was becoming
a detective. Back then, Tina was working as a victim
advocate at an emergency refuge in Kansas City. It's now
called the Dela Gill Joyce H. William Shelter for Survivors
(27:01):
of domestic violence. Hundreds of women came through its doors
looking for an empathetic ear and a safe place to sleep.
Tina's words are read by an actor.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
I generally worked the overnight shift. That shift tended to
be pretty busy, as women seeking shelter often arrived late
at night.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Tina saw women walking through the shelter in varying states
of distress.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Then not only showed signs of physical abuse, they also
showed signs of emotional or mental abuse. I listened for
hours to these women, providing counseling and support. One name
came up repeatedly, Roger Glubski. They would often be crying, shaking,
or showing other intense emotions. During these emotional discussions, they
(27:45):
would describe being sexually harassed, threatened, and coerced by Glubski.
Some described being humiliated when Gallupski dumped them back on
the street, still undressed when he was done with them.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Heart Wren right on point with the way I've seen
some of these victims display. Their insecurity is about this guy.
Their fears about it. I mean the shaking, the quiverness
in their voice, and how traumatized these women are because
(28:20):
a lot of people can't I don't know if they
don't want to deal with it in her head about
the trauma that these women are faced. But it's horrific.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
It really is a real life horror story. We knew
about the abuse, we'd heard the stories from the cemeteries,
So it wasn't what Tina saw at those shelters that
jumped out of us. It was what she did. Next.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
I called the police department so I could make a
complain about Roger Glubski and told the person who answered
that I worked at the battered women's shelter. The person
on the phone said that someone at the department would
get back with me, and as requested, I left my
name and phone number. I waited a week and called
the police department the second time. No one from the
department ever called me back.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
This is horrific. This is horrible.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, and I feel for Tina because I know you
don't work at a batter women's shelter for no reason.
That's not just a job that you just pick up
on the side. You take on that job because you
have a heart for people, or either you've been down
that bread down that road. She was connected to these women,
so I could only imagine Tina's frustration. They're coming to
(29:28):
this shelter for help. This woman is there to help,
and she's trying to help by going to the entity
that is they're doing the harm. But if so many
people are given this same name over and over, over
and over again, this person had no other choice but
(29:48):
to go to the police department because that is where
you go when there's a crime. But where do you
go when the police is the person committing the crime?
Where do you go? We tried to reach out to
Tina directly. We haven't been able to track her down.
(30:08):
But if the events in Tina's affidavit are accurate and
the other people's accounts we've read are true, the KSEYKPD
either overlooked or ignored several complaints. Had they acted sooner,
pulled Glupski from his duties and conducted a formal investigation,
it's possible that they could have protected the women of
(30:31):
Kansas City from decades worth of abuse. If Gulupski had
been stopped in the mid eighties, he would have never
been able to lure Nico's sister Stacy into his police
car and assault her. He wouldn't have been able to
(30:52):
arrest LaMotte McIntyre or intimidate Nico into giving false testimony.
And Ronda and Monique, Nico's friends who were murdered shortly
after she saw them get into Glupski's car. Both of
their lives ended in nineteen ninety eight. It was a
(31:19):
devastating realization. So many people's lives would have turned out
differently if Gallupski had been stopped sooner. But there's something else.
We were about to read the next part of Tina
Zaffa David and discover even more about Glupski, that he
(31:40):
may have been involved with something even darker than we
could have possibly imagined.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It just wouldn't have never cross my mind in that manner.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I can't believe that.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
That magnitude that is wow, that much explosive. They cover
up everything, They won't tell you nothing. It angered me
once I realized that I could have been one of them.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's coming up on the final episode of The Girlfriends Untouchable.
The Girlfriend's Untouchable is produced by novel for iHeart podcasts.
For more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. The show
(32:35):
is narrated by me Nicki Richardson. It was written and
produced by Rufaro Masarua. The editor is Joe Wheeler. Our
assistant producer is Mohammed Ahmed. The researcher is Zaiyana Yusef.
Production management from Shuri Houston and Joe Savage. The fact
checker is Fendall Fulton. Sound design, mixing and scoring by
(32:59):
Daniel Kimson with additional engineering by Nicholas Alexander. Music supervision
by Rufaro Mazurura, Nicholas Alexander and Joe Wheeler. Original music
by Amanda Jones. The Girlfriend's theme was composed by Amanda
Jones and Louisa Gerstein. The voice of Tina Peterson was
read by Ebanie Janelle. The series artwork was designed by
(33:23):
Christina Limpool. Story development by Olivia Smart and Nel Gray Andrews.
Novel's director of development is Selena Metta. Willard Foxton is
Novel's creative director of Development. Max O'Brien and Craig Strachan
are executive producers for novel. Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour
are the executive producers for iHeart podcast, and the marketing
(33:46):
lead is Alison Cantor. Special thanks to Will Pearson, and
a special thanks to Carley Frankel and the whole team
at w m E.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I watch you, and catch you and Got You
Hey, it's Nikki. We left on a pretty dramatic moment
last time. We'll pick up where we left off, but
first I wanted to let you know that while you'll
hear from a group of women who found community and
purpose in the process of rallying together, this episode will
include stories about violence, murder, suicide, and sexual assault. Some
(00:24):
of the victims are miners, and you'll hear quite a
lot of strong language. If you or someone you love
has been affected by any of the themes in the show.
We've left some links in the description that offer resources
and support. Take care of yourself. Kadij and I remember
(00:46):
exactly where we were on September fifteenth, twenty twenty two.
I think everyone in our community does.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I think I was sitting in the living room and
I got a phone call.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I was in my bedroom. I got the text, and
think got paced on my balcony, just back and forth.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, I just couldn't sit I just couldn't sit down
because I just couldn't believe. I couldn't believe it was actually.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, it was. It was surreal. I definitely had a
feeling that God was on duty. No, I always say
God to be patient. God is on duty that morning.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It really felt like he was because after years of campaigning,
Roger Gallupski was finally in handcuffs. So George read him
each of his charges, and in response, he seemed pretty animated,
appearing shocked and surprise, raising his head and his eyebrows.
(01:38):
Remember Ophelia Williams, the mother of twins who said Gallupski
assaulted her after arresting her sons. She and an anonymous
woman who also claimed Gallupski had assaulted her had quietly
spent years working with the FBI to share information about
what had happened to them. That helped build a case
(02:02):
that led to Gazupski being arrested on the charges of
kidnap and sexual assault on September fifteenth, twenty twenty two.
The documents filed for the case were damning. Ophilia and
the anonymous woman who goes by s K described Glupski's
abuse in depth. I won't go into the details, but
(02:26):
it was violent, not consensual, and left both women traumatized.
Gallupski is taken to his first court appearance on the
day of his arrest. He pleads not guilty, but that
(02:46):
September arrest is just the start when it hits the news.
Kadija and I spend hours on the phone talking to
people who want to share their Glupski stories. We redirect
them to lawyers and watch on in awe as we
realize the work we've dedicated years of our lives too
(03:08):
is finally moving things in the right direction. It isn't
all plane selling, though. Gallupski has a range of health issues,
including kidney failure, which requires regular dialysis, so he's put
on house arrests as he awaits trial. There is a
(03:30):
lot of controversy surrounding that house arrest. Some of the
victims are outraged that he's allowed to stay living at home,
and in January twenty twenty four, someone takes a photo
that shows Gallupski out at a fast food place. Trips
out to a burger joint were not included in the
terms of a house arrest for a man accused of
(03:52):
serious violent crimes, but we push all of that to
the side and stay focused on our goal. Justice of
philia in the anonymous victim's case meant a lot to us.
It only involved two victims, but we knew that if
Gulubski was found guilty, it could open the floodgates for
(04:16):
even more women to get their day in court. So
we were hopeful, but that anticipation came with nerves.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I think for about a week straight. I went to
bad crying, and I woke up crying. It's just like
you could feel something in the air.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Emotions were running high. We were anxious and felt a
little off balance, but we were determined to see it
through because after years of investigating and fighting for justice,
the first day of Roger Glubski's trial was finally here.
(05:02):
On the morning of December second, twenty twenty four, a sharp,
icy chill descends over Kansas City, Kansas. It's the first
truly cold day of the winter, and if I didn't
need to be out of the house by nine am,
I would stay inside. But this is the day we've
all been waiting for, and no amount of ice, wind
(05:25):
or snow can stop me from driving over to the
Topeka courthouse. I get into my car, but the GPS
is playing up. It keeps sending me to the wrong place.
So I call Kadija and we agree to meet up
just before the trial begins.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And in a car we talked about how luting of
a day it was it was probably the worst day
of the year, right now, Oh you know if that
day was cold.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Kadizu arrives a little earlier than me. It's around nine
to twenty five am when our taxi pulls up outside
the courthouse. She steps into the courthouse to warm up,
stands in the reception to shelter from the cold. But
when she walks in, she's greeted by a staff member
who tells her that things aren't going according to plan.
(06:15):
The trial isn't going to start on time. Why go?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Lucie is missing, and I'm like, he's missing?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
You know?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
At this point my jaw is like what.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I'm Nikki Richardson from The Teams A novel and iHeart podcast.
This is the Girlfriend's Untouchable, You big guy, Episode seven,
(07:10):
The Reckoning. When I park outside the courthouse that morning,
Kadija heads straight towards my car.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
They can't find his ass.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
They can't find him?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Work? They can't find him. Stay about to issue a
warrant and go look for this motherfucker? Are you safe?
I'm serious? Have my whole mouth drop who.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Was supposed to be keeping hands on him? I don't
fucking know Glupski was on house arrests with the understanding
that he would make his own way to court. But
his car isn't parked outside the courthouse and he's not
picking up his phone, so the judge presiding over the
trial puts out a warrant for his arrest. Kadiza tries
to explain it to me, but it just doesn't make
(08:00):
any sense.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
NICKI all the shit I was not expected.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Keeping track of him he is. I'm so dumbfounded. This
was just not what I expected. Kadija and I are
at a complete standstill for a moment, trying to figure
out what to do while we wait for Glupski to arrive.
You hungry, No, damn, Nikki, I don't even I mean,
(08:30):
my my brain was already prepared to go sit in court.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
They said if they could find him about one o'clock.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Then they would they would try to continue on with
the trial. Well, he's gonna have some explaining to do.
I mean that already starts him off real bad. Even
if they do find him.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I think this motherfucker's dog.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
He had probably left the fucking guns me though she
ain't coming. You know, Niko has a crazy ass sixth sense.
But she kept saying it's gonna be shit. She kept
saying it to me, And here where we are.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
While Kadija and I sit in the car waiting for
Gulupski to be found and brought to court, Nico is
at home. She had been anxiously tossing and turning her
way through the early morning.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
The day before his trail that Sunday. I could not sleep,
I couldn't I couldn't rest.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Nico desperately wanted justice for her younger self, her older
sister Stacy, and all the women she loved and lost
whose lives had crossed paths with Roger Gallupski. Gallupski going
on trial felt like the first step towards that.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I had a feeling of like butterflies, all kind of
emotions was going through me. I just was able to
go to sleep. At about seven or eight that morning.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
She can't fall into a deep sleep, so she glances
over at her phone.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I had about twenty misco.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Kadija and I are still sitting in the car trying
to figure out what's gone wrong. But then we get
a call.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Nico called me cry and she said her, lay, You're
told her he's dead.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It's nine to fifty five am. We're supposed to be
sitting in court in five minutes, but according to Nico
and her lawyer, Roger Gulupski is dead. Kadiji and I
don't know what to do, so we just sit in
the car, shell shocked as we try to wrap our
(10:44):
minds around it. That must have been in shields I
felt this morning. We sit on our phones desperately refreshing
the news for an official statement, details or an explanation,
and then I get a text. He was found dead
in his home where you found out?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Guys might just message to me.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Details slowly begin to filter through. At six am that morning,
Roger Gulubski wakes up to get ready for the first
day of his trial. At seven oh three am, he
calls up his son Matthew and tells him he is
not strong enough to do this. Still, he gets dressed
(11:31):
and prepares to head over to the courthouse. At around
eight twenty am, he takes a call from his lawyer's office.
It lasts one minute and eleven seconds. At eight thirty
he leaves the house and gets into his twenty eleven
red fod Taurusts. He makes his way down Ninth Street
(11:52):
to Edwardsville Drive, but doesn't reach the interstate. Instead, he
hits around about and heads back home. At nine oh one,
he calls his attorney again. They talk for a few minutes,
(12:12):
the call ends. Glupski's lawyer's office tries to call him
four more times, but he doesn't pick up. A few
minutes later, a nine to one one call comes from
the woman who's been living with Gallupski during his house arrest.
She tells the operator that she was inside when she
(12:34):
heard a loud bang. She says she ran out of
the house and onto the back porch. According to her,
Roger Glubski is sitting on the floor, still holding a pistol.
He was pronounced dead at nine to eighteen am, just
(12:57):
forty two minutes before we thought we would be in
court for jury selection. The cause of death suicide. Kadija
and I sitting shock as we read the news.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Wow make you said, like you drop a motherfucker to
kill yourself just a little bit, don't it Just it's
it's not the best feeling in the world. It's a
(13:33):
fucked up, fast feeling right now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, because that's not the way I expected it to.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
End on the day of motherfucker, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I mean, at least let them have their day in court,
but he wasn't gonna let anybody have that satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
We didn't know what to do really from there. We
kind of just sat with it on the side of
the road for probably about five minutes. For we we
did anything, just sitting there, like in Ah. It felt
like life was sucked out of Topeka. It's probably on
(14:12):
the news.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It's kind of work. What we doom?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
What the fuck we do? I don't know? Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
As soon as the news breaks that Roger Glupski is
the conspiracy theories start coming out.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Is he really dead?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
That's like one of the biggest questions to me, because
he felt as though he was very untouchable.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's Trina Cooper who we heard from last time. Her mother, Dorothy,
was murdered in the eighties and Glupski was the officer
she met while trying to reopen the investigation.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I have questions, That's why I ask, like, is.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
He really dead? Trina isn't the only one who doubts
the official statement about what happened that morning. We hear
theories all day. Some people think Gallupski's hiding out in
rural Kansas, living with distant relatives in Missouri. Others say
he's taken a flight and fled to a country that
doesn't have an extradition treaty with America. But there's another
(15:48):
theory that starts to gain a lot of traction amongst
the community.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
If he is dead, someone took his life. Well, Gulupski
taking his own life. No, you can't give me believe that.
And I really feel as though it happened because everyone
else was going to be exposed.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I'll be honest. It's a theory. I consider that morning,
Glupski's trial had the potential to implicate and expose other people,
potentially dangerous, powerful people. In the moment, Kadija and I
can't help but wonder whether there was a person or
group of people desperate enough to protect themselves that they
(16:33):
would want Gallupski dead. But we never get evidence to
give weight to any of those theories, so we sit
with the official statement that Glupski's death was a suicide.
The rest of that morning is a whirlwind. We spend
(16:53):
hours on the phone talking to the Department of Justice,
who reached out to see how they could support us,
and we spoke to lists looking for more information.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Hey, I don't know if you heard the news, but
Roger Glusi didn't show off of court this morning and
they found him dead in his home.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
To clarify, Kadijia and I are not lawyers or public officials. Still,
that morning, we find ourselves being called upon like unofficial spokeswomen,
and I'll be honest, it's kind of stressful. By eleven am,
the adrenaline rush is beginning to wear off, so we
(17:35):
make an executive decision to drive across Topeka and get
some lunch.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I'm just gonna go with the burger with cheese.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I'm trying to think how big my stomach is about
to be. Let's just do a fullord of biscuits and gravy.
It's one of the most disappointing days of our lives.
But for most people in that diner, it's just a
regular Monday. They're grabbing lunch, seeing friends and having casual conversations.
Their indifference underscores how fucking surreal our day has been.
(18:06):
After a frantic morning outside the courthouse, things are finally
beginning to slow down, and for the first time since
hearing the news, we just sit down and eat and
open up about how we're really feeling.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I couldn't find all this, and I think it's because
my spirit kind of met could feel the intensity of it.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's such a tragic ending, I mean, because if he
wanted to end it, he could have ended in it.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
It didn't have to be the day of the pluck
and drown.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You just have so many questions, but that has been
this entire process. Is just having so many questions, and
it just feels so unresolved, you know, because there's no
justice at this point, because at least they're able to
at least it's suicide and the mission of guilt. No, no,
(19:02):
unless he left the known with the confession.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I'm really worried about Nitho.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
He too, worried about all of them.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Really, Niko, Yeah, Nico, Vones, matter of fact, Len he called.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Them n.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Hey, Nico, how are you feeling bad?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Hurt?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I'm angry?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
He said, your hurt and you're angry.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Gulupski's trial was supposed to last weeks and end on
January fifteenth, twenty twenty five. One day before the twenty
fifth anniversary of Nico's older sister Stacy's murder. Nico had
thought the trial ending with Gulupski behind bars would give
her a sense of closure, but him killing himself before
(19:55):
he could face up to what he'd done devastated her.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I wanted to be able to face him and ask
him why and why is he lying? Asking him, plead
with him to tell the truth on up to what
you've done. You have lived your life. I wanted an
apology for everything that he's done.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The reality of the situation is beginning to sink in
for Niko. There isn't going to be a trial. Glupski
is never going to see his day in court, and
after a lifetime of heurt, his victims still aren't going
to get the justice they deserved. She isn't the only
(20:49):
one feeling that way. LaMotte McIntyre spent twenty three years
in prison after being arrested by Roger Glupski, who had
sexually assaulted his mother Rose. It was getting ready to
drive over to Topeka in anticipation of the first day
of the trial when he heard the news.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
I just wanted to see him face his accusers. And
face the people who he had wrong. That's what the
just system is designed to do, to help the victims
of society get justice by way of the people who
wronged them. And I was expecting my mother to experience that. Yeah,
I felt like I was robbed. I lost something. For
a moment, I feel like share lots of opportunity to
(21:29):
face my accuser or face this man who did this
shit to my mom.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
As Kadejah and I sit in the diner eating lunch,
we get calls from victims, survivors, witnesses, and loved ones
reaching out to us for answers, but we don't have them.
For a while, we'd allowed ourselves to believe that if
(21:55):
we worked hard enough, pushed the right people, and kept fighting,
we could change things, prove that nobody, even a powerful
police officer, was untouchable. But it doesn't feel true now.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I just wish I could go somewhere and just scream,
Like if we could just go somewhere and just scream,
just like over and over, just scream.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
It's a tough morning, but as we work through our emotions,
we come to some conclusions. It isn't our fault that
Gelupski is dead or that the authority supervising his house
arrest failed to find and confiscate his gun. The women
of Kansas City, Kansas have been failed time and time
(22:42):
again by the authorities meant to protect them. But we
can't lose hope, even in the midst of what feels
like an impossible situation. Because ksey K is our home.
We love it too much to give up. We have
no tree choice but to channel our despair into determination.
(23:05):
So we dry our tears, leave the diner, and get
to work.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
I got you, I Got You.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
The months that followed Glupski's death were unsettling. The authorities
didn't come forward with a solid explanation for how Glupski
had been able to get and keep a gun on
house arrest. Kadija and I kept rewinding the tape, playing
the years leading up to his death back in our
minds and trying to figure out what could have been
(23:54):
done to get justice sooner. We hope that if we
could trace things back to the start, we might be
able to figure out what to do next. So as
we tried to make sense of Glupski's death and the
questions that left us with, we turned to the only
concrete thing. We had the dozens of interviews, folders worth
of evidence, and numerous affidavits that had been collected over
(24:16):
the years. We were looking for answers, or at least clues,
anything we might have missed the first time around. We
wanted to find something that might give the dozens of
women whose stories we've heard some form of closure or
better yet, justice, whatever that might look like. Digging through
(24:40):
the files, we came across the formal statement made by
one of the police officers who worked with Glupski, Max Seifert.
When we spoke to him, he confirmed that many people
turned a blind eye to what Glupski was doing during
his time working for the KCKPD. In his statement, Max
go's so far as to say all of the detectives,
(25:03):
along with older officers and the commanders, all knew. No
one in the department questioned Gulupski's conduct, No one raised
any questions about whether it was proper or could cause
a problem of any kind. This was not news to us,
but still it was shocking to see it on paper,
see a legal document that outlined how people and positions
(25:27):
of power had seemingly allowed this to happen. There was
something else in Max's declaration that jumped out to us.
He draws attention to the fact that these women were
often poor and vulnerable, and that Gallupski would be seen
in places like housing projects or while leaving cheap hotels
(25:50):
where prostitutes were known to serve their customers housing projects.
We knew he targeted vulnerable women, but how far did
he take it? As we dug a little deeper, we
came across the statement of someone we'd never heard of before. Yeah,
(26:12):
have you seen this before? I think this is the
first time I've seen this.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
This is the first time I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It was a six page affidavid signed by a woman
named Tina Peterson. It formed part of the case Lamont's
team brought a few years ago to sue the Unified
government for their role in his false conviction. You reading
it now, Yeah, I'm starting to make some connections that
are made me very right. Tina's affidavid jumped out at
(26:39):
us because her story takes us back to the mid
nineteen eighties, right around the time that Gelupski was becoming
a detective. Back then, Tina was working as a victim
advocate at an emergency refuge in Kansas City. It's now
called the Dela Gill Joyce H. William Shelter for Survivors
(27:01):
of domestic violence. Hundreds of women came through its doors
looking for an empathetic ear and a safe place to sleep.
Tina's words are read by an actor.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
I generally worked the overnight shift. That shift tended to
be pretty busy, as women seeking shelter often arrived late
at night.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Tina saw women walking through the shelter in varying states
of distress.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Then not only showed signs of physical abuse, they also
showed signs of emotional or mental abuse. I listened for
hours to these women, providing counseling and support. One name
came up repeatedly, Roger Glubski. They would often be crying, shaking,
or showing other intense emotions. During these emotional discussions, they
(27:45):
would describe being sexually harassed, threatened, and coerced by Glubski.
Some described being humiliated when Gallupski dumped them back on
the street, still undressed when he was done with them.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Heart Wren right on point with the way I've seen
some of these victims display. Their insecurity is about this guy.
Their fears about it. I mean the shaking, the quiverness
in their voice, and how traumatized these women are because
(28:20):
a lot of people can't I don't know if they
don't want to deal with it in her head about
the trauma that these women are faced. But it's horrific.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
It really is a real life horror story. We knew
about the abuse, we'd heard the stories from the cemeteries,
So it wasn't what Tina saw at those shelters that
jumped out of us. It was what she did. Next.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
I called the police department so I could make a
complain about Roger Glubski and told the person who answered
that I worked at the battered women's shelter. The person
on the phone said that someone at the department would
get back with me, and as requested, I left my
name and phone number. I waited a week and called
the police department the second time. No one from the
department ever called me back.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
This is horrific. This is horrible.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, and I feel for Tina because I know you
don't work at a batter women's shelter for no reason.
That's not just a job that you just pick up
on the side. You take on that job because you
have a heart for people, or either you've been down
that bread down that road. She was connected to these women,
so I could only imagine Tina's frustration. They're coming to
(29:28):
this shelter for help. This woman is there to help,
and she's trying to help by going to the entity
that is they're doing the harm. But if so many
people are given this same name over and over, over
and over again, this person had no other choice but
(29:48):
to go to the police department because that is where
you go when there's a crime. But where do you
go when the police is the person committing the crime?
Where do you go? We tried to reach out to
Tina directly. We haven't been able to track her down.
(30:08):
But if the events in Tina's affidavit are accurate and
the other people's accounts we've read are true, the KSEYKPD
either overlooked or ignored several complaints. Had they acted sooner,
pulled Glupski from his duties and conducted a formal investigation,
it's possible that they could have protected the women of
(30:31):
Kansas City from decades worth of abuse. If Gulupski had
been stopped in the mid eighties, he would have never
been able to lure Nico's sister Stacy into his police
car and assault her. He wouldn't have been able to
(30:52):
arrest LaMotte McIntyre or intimidate Nico into giving false testimony.
And Ronda and Monique, Nico's friends who were murdered shortly
after she saw them get into Glupski's car. Both of
their lives ended in nineteen ninety eight. It was a
(31:19):
devastating realization. So many people's lives would have turned out
differently if Gallupski had been stopped sooner. But there's something else.
We were about to read the next part of Tina
Zaffa David and discover even more about Glupski, that he
(31:40):
may have been involved with something even darker than we
could have possibly imagined.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It just wouldn't have never cross my mind in that manner.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I can't believe that.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
That magnitude that is wow, that much explosive. They cover
up everything, They won't tell you nothing. It angered me
once I realized that I could have been one of them.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's coming up on the final episode of The Girlfriends Untouchable.
The Girlfriend's Untouchable is produced by novel for iHeart podcasts.
For more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. The show
(32:35):
is narrated by me Nicki Richardson. It was written and
produced by Rufaro Masarua. The editor is Joe Wheeler. Our
assistant producer is Mohammed Ahmed. The researcher is Zaiyana Yusef.
Production management from Shuri Houston and Joe Savage. The fact
checker is Fendall Fulton. Sound design, mixing and scoring by
(32:59):
Daniel Kimson with additional engineering by Nicholas Alexander. Music supervision
by Rufaro Mazurura, Nicholas Alexander and Joe Wheeler. Original music
by Amanda Jones. The Girlfriend's theme was composed by Amanda
Jones and Louisa Gerstein. The voice of Tina Peterson was
read by Ebanie Janelle. The series artwork was designed by
(33:23):
Christina Limpool. Story development by Olivia Smart and Nel Gray Andrews.
Novel's director of development is Selena Metta. Willard Foxton is
Novel's creative director of Development. Max O'Brien and Craig Strachan
are executive producers for novel. Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour
are the executive producers for iHeart podcast, and the marketing
(33:46):
lead is Alison Cantor. Special thanks to Will Pearson, and
a special thanks to Carley Frankel and the whole team
at w m E.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I watch you, and catch you and Got You
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Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb
Joy is essential. And it's also elusive. You can't order it, borrow it, or simply hope it into life. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence: The Joy 101 Podcast with Hoda! Best known for her Emmy-winning work and co-anchoring Today, Hoda Kotb infuses her authenticity, curiosity, and warmth into conversations with the world’s most fascinating people. Entertainment legends, sport icons, wellness experts, and everyday folks will share how they find, allow, and experience joy. Hoda will offer her own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced, harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune in to these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Joy after a breakup, joy as an empty-nester, joy after loss, joy as a caretaker — Hoda's new podcast will speak to you. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb, an iHeartPodcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com