January 22, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of The Golf Fitness Bomb Squad, Ross and Chris take you behind the scenes of capturing the perfect golf moment, blending photography with cutting-edge technology. Ross shares his journey into the world of golf photography, discussing how he’s captured iconic moments on the course and how the rise of golf simulators has transformed the game. They explore the technology behind golf simulators, dive into the benefits of remote coaching, and discuss the exciting possibilities that AI-driven tools like Sportsbox.ai offer for swing analysis and training. It’s a fun blend of photography, tech, and golf that any fan of the game will enjoy! Connect with Ross: @ross.flannigan.golf on Instagram The My Love of Golf Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-my-love-of-golf-podcast/id1439315992
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm your host, Chris Finn and I have a very
exciting guest with me today, Ross Flanagan, who a lot
of you may not know, but as we as as
we always do, look for guests and you know, we go.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I think, as you guys have noticed on the on
on our midweek episodes, we try to give you a
sprinkling of different people in the world of golf, and
Ross has quite a unique experience from podcasting, photography, both Scotland, Australia,
I mean all over the world, has done some pretty
cool stuff. So I'm excited for a little change up
for you guys this week. I know we've had some
good responses when we've had you know, people like Ross on,
(00:45):
So Ross, I'm excited to have you on. I can't
tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time
to chat with us today.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Veryce, absolute pleasure. I privileged to be here. I love
talking podcast I love being on podcasts, not that I
get that many, but you know, as someone that's sat
in your chair for a number of years now, it's
always a pleasure to talk. And yeah, thanks for the intro.
There I've been around and done a few things, so yeah,
always happy to share those experiences, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And I think one of the cool things ross that
for me as a obviously, if I'm doing a golf
fitness podcast, I'm a bit of a golf addict. And
I think one of the things that drew me early
on in my golf journey, if you want to call that,
I grew up I was. I played basketball and I
didn't pick up golf to I was after grad school.
And one of the things that really drew me was,
(01:30):
you know, the idea of traveling and the beauty of
so many of the different courses around the world. And
I grew up in Connecticut in the Northeast and there's
not a ton of beauty where I grew up, so
to see the you know, just the beautiful landscapes, and
I say, getting into golf, and as i've played more,
getting to travel and you know, going out last summer,
just went to Cabot and getting I've really been drawn
(01:51):
to a lot of the links types of courses banned
in prior to that. And so I think one of
the cool things for me to have you on is
knowing you've done so much of the photography in so
many different places, you know, including like the old course,
and you've done it, you know, golf digest for you know,
you've done some pretty high level I mean like.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The highest of high levels photography. Like what how did
you get into that? What's what's that like?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And I have to imagine it's not just one click
of a camera and you're done, Like there has to
be so much that goes into that. I can only imagine.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And I've been really lucky to I guess. You know,
I use the term form of feet in terms of
that photography experience. You know, by no way am I
a professional photographer. It depends a view professional photography taking
photos and getting some remuneration. Yes, I do take photos,
and I've got remuneration. But you know, there are people
out there that do it seriously professionally who I look
(02:42):
up to, and some of them might get to call
friends and colleagues, and you know they're good enough to respond.
You know, they're the true professionals. But for me, you know,
whether it's right time, right place, or you know, I
don't care what you say. I've been around and I've
done a few things and had a great experience with
that photography since moving to Scotland and a little bit
back in Australia. How did it come about? That's a
(03:04):
really good question, and I have to go back to
my formative years as a golfer. I grew up in
the Hunter Valley in New South Wales, which is about
two hours north of Sydney. For people who know where
Sydney is in the country, you know, my parents immigrated
there from Scotland and we played golf. I was not
very good as a soccer player, which was to my
dad's disappointment because he moved there to play soccer. I
(03:26):
played golf. But in nine to eighty seven I took
my first trip away from country, New South Wales to America.
We went to Palm Springs for a month, a group
of golfers from countrytown and I was very lucky to
be hosted by a very good family in the desert
there in Palm Springs. And my host father was a
member at Mission Hills and he also, through his medical world,
(03:48):
was very well connected in the golf space. So we
hok me to PGA West and played the stadium, of course.
And the reason I come, yeah, the reason why I
come back to that is because I just found a
five dat today which reminded me of that poor young
man who had the tuple bogie on the sixteenth at
PJA West, and I thought, oh, that's so familiar. And
I found a photo of me in that very bunker
(04:09):
in nine and eighty seven. Now I didn't take that photo,
but in that trip I was taking a lot of
photos on those little you know, hardboard role CLICKI film cameras,
bringing them home, getting them developed. And what I did
when I was a kid, and my dad gave me
the photos when I visited him before I left Australia.
He said, there's your photos you took when you were
a kid. And I went through this photo while, oh, wow,
(04:32):
not bad. And what I was doing then, you know,
with the absence of wide angle lenses, I was taking
photos in panorama in three stages, so one photo, two photos,
street photos and sticking them together.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So I guess the point of that is that's how
I thought about photography and golf landscapes when I was
sixteen years old, and I just sort of parked it.
And it wasn't until I started playing around with podcasting
and video and photos and buying cameras and you know, golf.
What do we get addicted to? We get addicted to
playing golf and golf gear. I was in the golf
gear business. I was a golf retail of a big
(05:07):
gold store, so I had that at my disposal. I
got addicted to camera gear. I started buying one camera,
two cameras, No, the next one's better, this is going
to help me do this, and another lens and it
just steamrolled from there. Now fast forward to moving to Scotland.
My good friends at Golf Digest Australia. I strained Golf Digest.
You know, they had the opportunity to help me get
access to the tournament. You know, I was taking some
(05:29):
photos for them. They used many of the photos that
I took. I was working alongside an Australian golf journalist,
Evan Priest. Evan's pretty well known in the States for
his work that he's done there when he lived there,
but just globally, and we shot some cool things together.
Michael Henriett is a key. We was just coming back
to the Open after missing after recovering from cancer. We
did a little piece on him and followed him around
(05:50):
and took some photos there, but you know then it
was just often do what you do, and you know,
I was piling photos onto Evan and he was having
access to my photos or the Getty photos wherever they
get access to and you were just in the mix
and it was a great experience. It wasn't the first
tournament that I've worked out. I'd done some Australian tournaments before,
but it was obviously the very first big tournament and
it was it was mind blowing and that just rolled
(06:13):
into you through summer of last year, from the Open
to Live Golf UK, to the AIG Women's Open and
then finishing the Dunhill Links and Dunhill Links and the
Women's Open both on St Andrew's. It's just amazing. So yeah,
that's a sort of long story short.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So I think just it would be cool kind of
some behind the scenes I think when obviously people are
thinking if they've been to a major championship or one
of those bigger tournaments, like there's obviously a difference versus
if you go follow your kid at a junior tournament
or even just you know, just an amateur event or
just a regular tour event. Right, I grew up in
Connecticut and you know, going to the Travelers is a
(06:52):
little different than going to the US Open down here
in Pinehurst. That we just want to what's it like
for you on the inside, you know, as a for
time for somebody who's working, How do how does the
level of the event change what you do, what you
can do, what you can't do with that sort of
that experience from that type.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, it's a good question. And to contextualize that. When
I shot at the Australian Open, for example, a couple
of years in a row, it was essentially my first
time working inside the ropes and I remember one of
the media colleagues who I knew quite well, and I
was just sort of being very gentle about my positioning
and where I could go and couldn't go, and I
was probably losing opportunity to take some decent shots by
(07:31):
just being a little bit conservative. And he was like, mate,
you've got that media pass on off you go. Okay,
but that's the sort of level of restriction there was.
He was like, yeah, nah, go for it, and yeah
media past year take fight as Yeah, no worries. Now
you go to the Open and you apply for your
credentials there, Well you've you've got to have the backing
and support of a major outlet or be a tutor
(07:54):
for a recognized bucka Getty. So I had the backing
of Australian GoF Digest, the biggest publication in Australia. No problems,
but you know, there's a wholly of rigmarole that you
have to go through. And then once you get onto course,
you know the train and open, there's maybe five of
us out there on course, well they open, there's five
on every hole pretty much, you know, and it's like
a real scrum and some of the guys you know,
(08:16):
and I had to again relearn my sort of strategies.
You know, if you don't get in to get the
best position, you're going to lose it. And you know
you really have to be thinking ahead and be you know,
trying to be creative and not just take normal shots
and all of those sorts of things. So it really
was a great learning and by the time of doing
the open at raw Troon, you know, I'd sort of
learn a fair bit more about how to operate, and
(08:38):
then rolling into the AIG Women's and Live Golf, I
had a little bit more confidence, a little bit more
comfortableness with how to go about it. But yeah, there's
quite a deal of rigmarole. You know, your cameras get
tagged and stickered, and arm bands and special things, and
media people on every hole telling you where you can't go,
and if you step out of line, they'll pull you across.
And don't get in the way of people when they're
(08:58):
walking through whole host of stuff. But it was great
and plus the crowds, you know, like, yeah, open hundreds
of thousands of people laughing at you, poking fun at you,
asking about your camera. You know, I slipped up on
a bit of sand and there was a whole heap
of scotsman over there. They've been drinking and I was
trying to walk up a bank because I tried to
get a position and I slipped and I sort of
had two cameras in my hand and I fell flat
(09:20):
on my face. Not from any high just up at June.
But that was just absolutely took that you know what
out of me. So you know, that's that comes with
the turf.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Did you save the cameras?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
That's the important Yeah, that's why I fell flat on
my face because I had the cameras up in the air.
I was a bang. That was good fun.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
One of them probably fell holding a beer in each
hand earlier and saved the same. So hopefully they gave
you the same cheer they heard.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They heard the Australian accent, and I think they're a
little bit more sympathetic. And you know, it's it's quite
internationally Australian accident. It travels. Yeah, so yeah, it was
friendly friendly fire.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
There you go. And then what's the I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I've never kind of actually thought to even ask these
quite but the you know, do you as a as
a photographer in the media, are you do you have
a predetermined route that you're supposed to take based on
your team? Do you can you audible as you go?
Do you stay in one spot? Do you move with
a certain group? How does that is there plan? I'm
assuming there's a pre plan that goes out. How does
that all work?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So I was pretty much a lone ranger, you know,
other than the work that I was doing with Evan.
You know, I'm obviously working for Australian Golf Digest. It
was focus on the Australian So you know, you've got
a plan you're planning based around the tea times, so
you know you might have some Australians there are a
team off at seven am and then some of the
are team off two pm, so you you know you're
there the whole day. And if you miss the te
(10:40):
off for an example at seven am because you're driving
down from Edinburgh, get caught in a bit of open
traffic and then you sort of pluck you know, well,
I'll pick them up as they come around to tenth
while the next group of team off off the first
and I can sort of you know, you just really
learn how to sort of map it out. But within
the organization, yeah, you get issued a map. The map
(11:00):
has a very strict routing for photographers and photography positions
that you can only sort of work it walk in
certain routes in certain ways, and there's a whole heap
of no stand zones predominantly you know, where hoardings are
and sponsor banners are and all that sort of thing,
and TV cameras. You know, they don't want anyone you
know that's administrative, whether that's a marshal, whether it's a
(11:21):
photographer or anyone like that on the ground to be
in front of any of that, so there's quite strict guidelines.
But for me it was just you know, follow the Australians,
you know, follow the scores, see who's where, and just
get some shots and you know the rest of it
is try to capture those moments, you know when when
they do something, you're like, what I did learn is
back in my early days of taking photos, you know,
(11:42):
I was trying to get golf balls that impact and
swings and all the beautiful stuff. But really, you know,
that's not the interesting stuff. The interesting stuff is trying
to get a handshake or a club in the air
or some of those little things that we do as golfers,
people's faces in the background and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Element.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, yeah, it's just trying to get some of those
moments that really signify what's actually happened that emotion. And
that's really again the learning and the challenge that I
had to pick up and get a hold of really
quickly at the Open for example this year.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's like a whole new world.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
If you don't even think about as a spectator, can
you just follow the ropes and you don't think about
the strategy and all the I never would have even
thought that they would restrict you from standing in front
of sponsor banners or that no no stand zones.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
That's that's interesting, Yeah, very much. Sorry, So I want
to pivot roster.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I know there's there's been obviously a lot of talk
about the TGL League and the golf simulators, and there's
kind of been front and center. I know you were
very early into the simulator space. I think as far
back as I was it fourteen or fifteen, it was
like ten, like a decade ago basically, what like, I'm
just curious as I have, I had no idea what
(12:53):
a simulator even looked like back then.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Like, what's what's changed? What have you?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know, what was it like in the early days,
And you know, what's the evolution kind of been that
you've seen, you know, from being one of the early
kind of adopters to today.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Chris has been probably a couple of different sort of
propulsions or evolution of adoption of golf. Simulated tech is
a legitimate form of golf. And you know, back in
the twenty fourteen my organization that I was a partner
in or a party to partner with, we're also a
partner with Golf Australia the peak body of golf in Australia,
(13:27):
and I remember in those early days, you know, we
would talk to them about, hey, we should partner with
Golf Australia, who were responsible for golf on golf courses
and offer golfers a way to do golf more regularly,
more frequently and competitively in an indoor space. And to paraphrase,
the Golf Australia sort of feedback was no, no, no,
(13:48):
that's not USA. Roll forward a few years, you know,
come COVID, Come the proliferation of golf, the uptaking off.
Everyone wants to do golf. Golf's now the cool sport.
All of a sudden, it was yeah, all golf is golf,
and they were back to us, going, let's see how
we can integrate our database and your database and bring
people to you and you to us. So it really
(14:08):
flipped that sort of orientation and that was I guess
signified the mentality of the people, because you know, post COVID,
people wanted to play golf short, sharp, more often. They
wanted that adrenaline rush and that sort of endorphin boost
that you get from hitting a golf shop and shot
and they wanted it more often and more conveniently, and
that's when we saw people really coming into the stores
(14:30):
in drows And then you're throwing the entertainment aspect, you know,
all of a sudden, Now playing golf and doing golf
with a group of people, whether it's a corporate or
a buck party or a party of anergy description, that
was a legitimate way to do entertainment. You know, we
can play golf, we can have a social occasion, have
a drink, eat and do that. And that then became
just another thing like the early days of putt putt golf.
(14:53):
You know, now you could do it in a simulate
and have a very realistic and fun experience. So it
changed a lot. You know, it seemed like a a
long time at the time, but it actually moved pretty rapidly,
especially that sort of COVID period. But many of those
early days in twenty fourteen, at the end of twenty forteen,
when we put four very expensive simulators into an extension
of a retail golf shop and then tried to call
(15:14):
it a brand and tried to do.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
All of this.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You know, there were some nights there I sat there
with the lights on and no customers wondering, you know,
where we'd spent the money and how are we going
to make it back? And you know, slowly but surely
people come into practice coaching. People wanted to get coaching
at seven o'clock at night on the way home from work.
It just started to happen. And now we see what
you mentioned, you know, TGL and the proliferation of indoor venues,
(15:39):
you know, driving ranges with top trace coaching with technology,
you know, any form of where you can measure the ball,
and what I do now, you know, I've just moved
into working with the Foresight Sports group, you know, using
that skill knowledge that I had, and now working for
Sight Sports Europe anywhere who can track the golf ball
and the golf club. You know, people want to want
that information to improve their golf. And then obviously there's
(16:01):
the end to timements out of it. You know, with
technology and software, it's amazing what actually can happen these days.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, it's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I go to the PGA show every year and the
I always joke I come back. I feel like each
year there's one product group that's like everywhere, and I
feel like, to your point, since COVID simulators all of
a sudden, we're like every every turn you could try
a different company, a different brand. And you know, last
year there was a lot of three D like trying
(16:30):
to do censor or marker lists, three D capture and
all that sort of stuff along with a lot of
the simulators. You know, have you seen that there's been
kind of brands or thing, maybe not even brands, but
features that have kind of come and go and come
and gone, but others that kind of through the last
decade or so have kind of proven that, you know, hey,
(16:51):
these are the main features of a successful simulator. That's
just the reason I'm asking this will help to give
some context. A lot of people that listen, a lot
of my customers of just people listening, particularly if they're
up north, are looking to put sims into their house, right,
They're looking to you know, to your point, I want
to practice when there's snow on the ground and what's
and now absolutely now you have the online gaming and
(17:12):
you know they can do all that sort of stuff.
So you know, somebody who's had the experience that you've had,
I mean, what are some of the features or you know,
I don't know if there's brands that are like for
different things that are better. What if someone was a
total novice, you know, what would be some of the
kind of key things to think about as you're looking
at SIMS.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I think the thing that people look for and remember
but sometimes I don't always realize is the way that
the technology works and how quick it works. And there
are definitely some technologies out there that you know, are
able to work and give you a more realistic experience
in a much more advanced way than some of the
technologies in the main you know, technology advancement and development now,
(17:55):
you know, we see it in everything that we do
see in touch happens pretty quick and things can change
pretty quick. But usually the companies that are really heavily
invested in golf ball measurement, you know, the first to
really hone in on the best form of technology to
give you the most realistic experience. So what I mean
by that is, you know, when you hit a shot
and it hits the screen, you don't want a lag
(18:16):
in the golf ball moving towards the target. You know,
you want to see the ball hit the screen and
continue and the good manufacturers do that really well. And
there are a number of ways that the technology can work.
You know, I mentioned Foresight Sports. You know, camera based technology,
so it's really highly developed high speed cameras, measuring the
golf ball at the point of touch, measuring the club
(18:38):
as it comes into impact, and measuring the spin of
the golf ball to give you all of this advanced measurement.
Now for a coach, you know, which a lot of
these simulators are being used for, especially people you know,
like you mentioned, who are putting them in home because
they don't get access to all year round golf. You know,
if they can get coaching data and coaching information through
technology and they know how to interpret themselves, or they
(19:01):
can work with a coach and send the data remotely,
you know, via video.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know, we've if.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
You know about the Skiller stapp you know Biden Biden
Chaff in Australia has developed a Skiller stap which has
enabled coaches to do online coaching globally. Well, if they
can get access to data and accurate data, then a
coach can really help a customer in a simulator in
a remote environment and that's been a huge sort of
thing for the people to want to get simulation at home.
(19:26):
Am I answering the question correctly? The next technologies? I
guess everyone has a different version of how they measure
the golf ball. And if you listen to all the
companies talking, you know they'll do it better and faster.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yea, everyone's got the best, the best idea. What's I
think one of the big questions I hear from a
lot of people, are you mentioned the camera based like
People don't understand that there's Doppler base, there's camera based
like that. There's different types of measurement systems. You know,
what are how do they what's the difference? I guess
is probably the biggest question that I get asked a
lot when people come into our place.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yell, I can't. Yeah, I'm not going to talk about
brand specific because you know, I've not had as much
experience with some of the brands. But you know, radar
Doppler radar people will be familiar with the units that
sit behind the golf ball and they tracked the golf
ball as a projectile. You know, this is radar technology
that emanates from military technology in many respects, so it
(20:18):
has the ability to track a projectile leaving the golf
ball and from there you know, there's a number of
measurements and algorithms that the radar is able to do
to project the flight and some of the circumstances that
impact you know, the direction of the ball towards the target.
So the other technology in the simulators that I had
back in the store was a combination of camera and infrared.
(20:43):
So you know, the example being you would hit the
golf ball, the camera would capture the moment of impact
of the golf ball, not in super high frames per second,
but it would have enough to orient the technology to
point the ball to where it needs to go towards
the target which is on the screen. And then there
were some infrared curtains, so the ball would pass through
infrared curtains and have a measurement and then project that
(21:06):
onto a screen. That's another way. And then there's you know,
what I'm more familiar with now is this high speed
camera quadroscopic. You know, if you think about to use
the term of the camera or the product that I
can talk about because I work with a company GC
quad quadroscopic, four cameras looking at the club as you
move into the ball point of touch, and then as
(21:27):
the ball leaves and just really high speed cameras. You know,
my camera's up here in the cupboard do one hundred
and twenty five frames of seconds. You know, these do
a thousands of frames a second, so it can really
look onto a dimple and give you very accurate what
we call closed data. That's very valuable for a coach.
But you know, it also gives you the ability to
have realistic golf simulation. Then there's the tech. Then there's
(21:48):
the software technology behind it all, and everyone again has
their own software. They'll develop their own version of realistic courses.
And some of the courses are licensed. The manufacturers have
to pay fees for them, and if you have a simulator,
sometimes you can buy a course, you know, if you
have to pay for it. It's usually some sort of
licensing and growment with a course. And then there's open
source technical simulation.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
So for example, the names of those courses sometimes are
pretty funny. You'll see like Augusta, but it's called like
Georgia Golf Club or something.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
You got it. So you know, the fund that you
can have is endless, you know, like it's you know,
I saw some courses on one of the simular software
the other day, you know, it blew me away, Like
I thought, I know that course in Australia and I've
never played there, probably drive past it a thousand times,
but it's mapped here on this someone someone at home
has mapped it in this open source software.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So yeah, it's actually we have one of the there's
a local course near our facility here that a lot
of the our members are actually members of and they
will come and play their home course on the simulator.
You know, let's say, oh that trees needs to be
you know, ten yards left or you know, it's amazing. Yeah,
but they I mean, the accuracy of it is is
pretty cool. And I think the for I appreciate you
(23:01):
kind of going into the details of the different types
of monitor. I don't think people realize there's the actual
launch monitor and then there's the software on top of it.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's you know, it's not just one thing. You kind
of have to get them to work together.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And I think the other thing that I have found
that people don't realize, like I think for a lot
of the Doppler systems, you need a lot more space
as opposed to the GC quad. Basically you can just
go right next, you know, So particularly for home units.
I feel like that has been a big deciding factor
for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Would you kind of say that as well.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Well, again you're not talking specifics, but you know, like
any of the rear based radars, you need a certain
amount of distance between the impact area and the screen
for the ball to travel, for it to be reliably
and accurately pick it up to give you that calibrated distance.
Whereas a camera based system you can really, as I
(23:49):
said before, measure it within a closed space. So define
space and give you, you know, very accurate measurements that way,
so you know, you can have smaller distances between the
hitting zone and the screen. So it does it can
save a little bit of space. The other thing to
think about, you know, which I've learned is, you know,
in my shop in Melbourne, you know, if you wanted
(24:10):
to play left and right handed, you had to effectively
have two modules, one on the right and one on
the left. If you wanted to have a smaller space
sim you can get wide sims and smaller space sims,
so it basically doubled the cost. You know, you had
two camera units and all of the technology that sits
above for people to click back and forward to play
left right handed. Of course, we know there are more
left handed golfers these days. They are growing, but there's
(24:33):
not as many. But you had to have it that
that creates cost. You know, if you can find a
solution that allows you to play left and right handed
with one technology bundle above you, but katus with left
and right handed, that's a real win for me. I
know that. You know one of our products does that
really well. Yeah, the Gesse Hawk Jesse the Foresight Falcon
(24:54):
is the latest and it's a little more need still
quadoscopic cameras, but and has a really large hitting area
so you can flip back and forward. It's fantastic. Yeah,
I've already worked for the place for a month now
and I'm blind.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Why take so Yeah, that's awesome. But that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You know, I appreciate you giving that insight because I
think that's those have been some considerations when we've had
people ask they'll come see our setup, and you know,
obviously weird. We've gotten eleven thousand square foot building. Like
space is not an issue for a couple of sims,
you know what I mean. But you know, somebody putting
it up in a bonus room like that's a that's
a concern for them. So I appreciate you you diving
into that, and Russ I I want to be I
want to be respectful of your time here. I can't
(25:31):
thank you enough for the insights into the you know,
just what it's like to do the photography just from
an artistic side, but also just the experience of being
inside the ropes. That was that was that was pretty cool.
That's first, definitely the first time we've learned about that
on the show. And then obviously the insight into the simulators.
I think that those those have been some questions that
I get all the time. So but I can't thank
you enough for your insight and expertise on that. But
(25:52):
if people wanted to follow you or kind of kind
of keep up with what you're doing, what's the what's
what's the best place for them to do that?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It's sure the best place to follow me is socially,
is through Instagram. You can get me at Ross dot
Flannagan dot golf. Flannagan spelt an unconventional way f l
A double n I g A N and yeah, Ross
dot Flannagan dot golf. You can hook up there and
see some of the photos that I've taken, and you know,
as the journey progresses, as I moved back into this,
(26:21):
you know, I've sort of come out of the simulator
world and move back into that sort of technology world.
I'll keep my hand at the photography where I can,
but you know, sort of double double dipping on a
lot of fronts. But you know, the focus is, you know,
helping the Scottish golfing community become familar with the products.
And you know, if someone was to, for example, wanting
to open an indoor golf facility and they needed someone
(26:42):
that they could talk to and you know, have some
independent insights into what it's like to run, how it
can be successful. You know, what are the areas to
look for to make it profitable, and you know all
of the nuances and machinations that you know, certainly I'm
in a good position to be able to discuss those things.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, it will be. I wouldn't surprised.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
At some point in the next couple of months you
get you get some people sent over from me who
are asking me.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I say, you know what, just co talk to us.
We get that question all the times.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
We don't do like commercially, we have dual force plates
in the middle, so to do commercial like hitting doesn't
make sense for us because the number of people who
think that the force plate is where they're supposed to
hit off of drives me nuts.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's like, no, no, no, please, don't hit off that.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But we'll have a lot of people who say they
think that we have indoor sims and you know, you
should do you should you know, do you know leagues
and all those sorts of things, and we're starting to
see them pop up all over the place.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Here in North Carolina, and so definitely that we send
some people to you.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Chris, there was one tech and you know, if we
leave this to the end or you put it back
here in that Yeah, I think I mentioned it sports
box AI.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I met jahan Jahann, the young lady from America who
formed LPGA Player. I met her at the Open and
she told me about what she was developing, this AI
based training platform on where you know, using camera phone
camera can map you your body AI wise and then
(28:08):
give you measurements on your golf swing. And we were
just talking and I hadn't really grasped this whole AI
and how it could affect what we do in terms
of golf golf, retail golf, training, golf learning. And I
just started to extrapolate my mind to what the potential
is there. You know, I know the manufacturers you know,
all talking about the next evolutions of product. You know,
(28:30):
like they're really pushing the boundaries now with product and
what they can get out of the face. You know,
it's obviously measured. You know, they're pushing the boundaries in
terms of forgiveness and this maxing out the MOI, minimizing
weight where it's not required. What can they do? You know?
I think AI is going to be a big player
in how we consider fitting people for golf and training
people for golf. Back to your space there, and I
(28:51):
jumped on Sportsbox AI in the Foresight syndown in our
London head office and immediately, you know, it showed up
so many deficiencies in in my swing movement or my mobility.
I've got a good swing. I'm a four handicapped guy,
older guy, but you know as I get older, I'm
losing this mobility and this sports box I just put
(29:12):
my numbers straight up against Okay, puts it against a
tour player that's what I said for it to do that.
I could see hip rotation, I could see my hand speed,
I could see all these other key markers which I've
always prided myself as a ball striker. And it come
down to my left side. My left side is terribly weak.
(29:32):
Ankle injury, ankle injury from rugby league, a ductor injury
from slipping on some wet grass cadding. For a friend
and a pri am, you could just see everything and
these numbers are stacked up and for someone like you, you know,
you would just go bang bam bang, Okay, let's work
on here and here, and it would be It was
(29:53):
so powerful. But then when I think about that, how
we could use that to fit people rather than the
static way fingertips the floor and lying bullets and all
of that, all stuff that's been doing happened for fifty years.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You could actually see it dynamically. Yeah, and that'd be
such a change. Yeah, that's one thing we've seen on
the There's there's sports box. There's another company, Mustard Golf
as another one. These a little different way that they
do the the AI assessments and those sorts of things.
But yeah, I mean it's coming. I mean that I said,
I think I said earlier last year at the PGA show,
so would have been.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, there was.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
There was so many like put in air quotes if
you influcing podcasts can't see this, but AI technology solutions
that really were just you.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Know l ms.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
They weren't actual AI, but they were you know, the
push to try to be the first or the race
to get there, like what sports boxes obviously a leader
in that space, and what is going to come of
that in the next five years is absolutely like I
think it's thrilling in terms of the advances, you know,
the advances that we've had in the fitness and the
(30:55):
understanding how to train the skill of speed in the
last five years, with the you know, force plates becoming
more accessible with you know, more data, you know, you
know just internally we've been able to put fifteen thousand
people on force plates and the amount of learning that
you get like now all of a sudden, Oh yeah,
you want speed, It's very easy you do that right
to your point, you start putting people from a fitting
perspective or retail like through those AI module like models
(31:18):
are even just.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Like hey, what shirt should you be? Like what cut
would fit? You better.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I mean, like if we're talking like like clothes, you know,
if we're talking equipment seeing dynamic versus actual static measurement,
those sorts of things, and yeah, it's I think there's
going to be another jump in the within the next
three to five years. As that continues to get more
and more data points, it continues to get more refined,
it continues to learn, and then obviously as the retailers
learn how to integrate in a way that's consumer friendly,
(31:46):
right where it's digestible and not written in a PhDa level,
it's like, hey, click this button, go do this right,
like to the simplicity of like an Amazon. I think
it's it's going to be really really cool. So yeah,
I can't thank you enough for coming on today, Ross,
and we're definitely gonna have to have you on again
and continue the conversations, particularly as all this stuff evolved.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So thank you so much for the time today.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, pleasure, absolutely pleasure, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Cool, awesome everybody listening.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Definitely go check out We'll put A Ross's contact stuff
in the show notes. Definitely reach out to him, especially
if you are thinking about simulator simulator business. Ending along
those lines, he's been there, he's done that. Don't play
the course blindly. Played with someone who's done it and
caddied it ten thousand times tends to go better. And
as always, thanks for hanging out with me here on
Nikolf in this bom squat, and we'll catch you on
the next episode.
Welcome to the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm your host, Chris Finn and I have a very
exciting guest with me today, Ross Flanagan, who a lot
of you may not know, but as we as as
we always do, look for guests and you know, we go.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I think, as you guys have noticed on the on
on our midweek episodes, we try to give you a
sprinkling of different people in the world of golf, and
Ross has quite a unique experience from podcasting, photography, both Scotland, Australia,
I mean all over the world, has done some pretty
cool stuff. So I'm excited for a little change up
for you guys this week. I know we've had some
good responses when we've had you know, people like Ross on,
(00:45):
So Ross, I'm excited to have you on. I can't
tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time
to chat with us today.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Veryce, absolute pleasure. I privileged to be here. I love
talking podcast I love being on podcasts, not that I
get that many, but you know, as someone that's sat
in your chair for a number of years now, it's
always a pleasure to talk. And yeah, thanks for the intro.
There I've been around and done a few things, so yeah,
always happy to share those experiences, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And I think one of the cool things ross that
for me as a obviously, if I'm doing a golf
fitness podcast, I'm a bit of a golf addict. And
I think one of the things that drew me early
on in my golf journey, if you want to call that,
I grew up I was. I played basketball and I
didn't pick up golf to I was after grad school.
And one of the things that really drew me was,
(01:30):
you know, the idea of traveling and the beauty of
so many of the different courses around the world. And
I grew up in Connecticut in the Northeast and there's
not a ton of beauty where I grew up, so
to see the you know, just the beautiful landscapes, and
I say, getting into golf, and as i've played more,
getting to travel and you know, going out last summer,
just went to Cabot and getting I've really been drawn
(01:51):
to a lot of the links types of courses banned
in prior to that. And so I think one of
the cool things for me to have you on is
knowing you've done so much of the photography in so
many different places, you know, including like the old course,
and you've done it, you know, golf digest for you know,
you've done some pretty high level I mean like.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The highest of high levels photography. Like what how did
you get into that? What's what's that like?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And I have to imagine it's not just one click
of a camera and you're done, Like there has to
be so much that goes into that. I can only imagine.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And I've been really lucky to I guess. You know,
I use the term form of feet in terms of
that photography experience. You know, by no way am I
a professional photographer. It depends a view professional photography taking
photos and getting some remuneration. Yes, I do take photos,
and I've got remuneration. But you know, there are people
out there that do it seriously professionally who I look
(02:42):
up to, and some of them might get to call
friends and colleagues, and you know they're good enough to respond.
You know, they're the true professionals. But for me, you know,
whether it's right time, right place, or you know, I
don't care what you say. I've been around and I've
done a few things and had a great experience with
that photography since moving to Scotland and a little bit
back in Australia. How did it come about? That's a
(03:04):
really good question, and I have to go back to
my formative years as a golfer. I grew up in
the Hunter Valley in New South Wales, which is about
two hours north of Sydney. For people who know where
Sydney is in the country, you know, my parents immigrated
there from Scotland and we played golf. I was not
very good as a soccer player, which was to my
dad's disappointment because he moved there to play soccer. I
(03:26):
played golf. But in nine to eighty seven I took
my first trip away from country, New South Wales to America.
We went to Palm Springs for a month, a group
of golfers from countrytown and I was very lucky to
be hosted by a very good family in the desert
there in Palm Springs. And my host father was a
member at Mission Hills and he also, through his medical world,
(03:48):
was very well connected in the golf space. So we
hok me to PGA West and played the stadium, of course.
And the reason I come, yeah, the reason why I
come back to that is because I just found a
five dat today which reminded me of that poor young
man who had the tuple bogie on the sixteenth at
PJA West, and I thought, oh, that's so familiar. And
I found a photo of me in that very bunker
(04:09):
in nine and eighty seven. Now I didn't take that photo,
but in that trip I was taking a lot of
photos on those little you know, hardboard role CLICKI film cameras,
bringing them home, getting them developed. And what I did
when I was a kid, and my dad gave me
the photos when I visited him before I left Australia.
He said, there's your photos you took when you were
a kid. And I went through this photo while, oh, wow,
(04:32):
not bad. And what I was doing then, you know,
with the absence of wide angle lenses, I was taking
photos in panorama in three stages, so one photo, two photos,
street photos and sticking them together.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So I guess the point of that is that's how
I thought about photography and golf landscapes when I was
sixteen years old, and I just sort of parked it.
And it wasn't until I started playing around with podcasting
and video and photos and buying cameras and you know, golf.
What do we get addicted to? We get addicted to
playing golf and golf gear. I was in the golf
gear business. I was a golf retail of a big
(05:07):
gold store, so I had that at my disposal. I
got addicted to camera gear. I started buying one camera,
two cameras, No, the next one's better, this is going
to help me do this, and another lens and it
just steamrolled from there. Now fast forward to moving to Scotland.
My good friends at Golf Digest Australia. I strained Golf Digest.
You know, they had the opportunity to help me get
access to the tournament. You know, I was taking some
(05:29):
photos for them. They used many of the photos that
I took. I was working alongside an Australian golf journalist,
Evan Priest. Evan's pretty well known in the States for
his work that he's done there when he lived there,
but just globally, and we shot some cool things together.
Michael Henriett is a key. We was just coming back
to the Open after missing after recovering from cancer. We
did a little piece on him and followed him around
(05:50):
and took some photos there, but you know then it
was just often do what you do, and you know,
I was piling photos onto Evan and he was having
access to my photos or the Getty photos wherever they
get access to and you were just in the mix
and it was a great experience. It wasn't the first
tournament that I've worked out. I'd done some Australian tournaments before,
but it was obviously the very first big tournament and
it was it was mind blowing and that just rolled
(06:13):
into you through summer of last year, from the Open
to Live Golf UK, to the AIG Women's Open and
then finishing the Dunhill Links and Dunhill Links and the
Women's Open both on St Andrew's. It's just amazing. So yeah,
that's a sort of long story short.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So I think just it would be cool kind of
some behind the scenes I think when obviously people are
thinking if they've been to a major championship or one
of those bigger tournaments, like there's obviously a difference versus
if you go follow your kid at a junior tournament
or even just you know, just an amateur event or
just a regular tour event. Right, I grew up in
Connecticut and you know, going to the Travelers is a
(06:52):
little different than going to the US Open down here
in Pinehurst. That we just want to what's it like
for you on the inside, you know, as a for
time for somebody who's working, How do how does the
level of the event change what you do, what you
can do, what you can't do with that sort of
that experience from that type.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, it's a good question. And to contextualize that. When
I shot at the Australian Open, for example, a couple
of years in a row, it was essentially my first
time working inside the ropes and I remember one of
the media colleagues who I knew quite well, and I
was just sort of being very gentle about my positioning
and where I could go and couldn't go, and I
was probably losing opportunity to take some decent shots by
(07:31):
just being a little bit conservative. And he was like, mate,
you've got that media pass on off you go. Okay,
but that's the sort of level of restriction there was.
He was like, yeah, nah, go for it, and yeah
media past year take fight as Yeah, no worries. Now
you go to the Open and you apply for your
credentials there, Well you've you've got to have the backing
and support of a major outlet or be a tutor
(07:54):
for a recognized bucka Getty. So I had the backing
of Australian GoF Digest, the biggest publication in Australia. No problems,
but you know, there's a wholly of rigmarole that you
have to go through. And then once you get onto course,
you know the train and open, there's maybe five of
us out there on course, well they open, there's five
on every hole pretty much, you know, and it's like
a real scrum and some of the guys you know,
(08:16):
and I had to again relearn my sort of strategies.
You know, if you don't get in to get the
best position, you're going to lose it. And you know
you really have to be thinking ahead and be you know,
trying to be creative and not just take normal shots
and all of those sorts of things. So it really
was a great learning and by the time of doing
the open at raw Troon, you know, I'd sort of
learn a fair bit more about how to operate, and
(08:38):
then rolling into the AIG Women's and Live Golf, I
had a little bit more confidence, a little bit more
comfortableness with how to go about it. But yeah, there's
quite a deal of rigmarole. You know, your cameras get
tagged and stickered, and arm bands and special things, and
media people on every hole telling you where you can't go,
and if you step out of line, they'll pull you across.
And don't get in the way of people when they're
(08:58):
walking through whole host of stuff. But it was great
and plus the crowds, you know, like, yeah, open hundreds
of thousands of people laughing at you, poking fun at you,
asking about your camera. You know, I slipped up on
a bit of sand and there was a whole heap
of scotsman over there. They've been drinking and I was
trying to walk up a bank because I tried to
get a position and I slipped and I sort of
had two cameras in my hand and I fell flat
(09:20):
on my face. Not from any high just up at June.
But that was just absolutely took that you know what
out of me. So you know, that's that comes with
the turf.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Did you save the cameras?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
That's the important Yeah, that's why I fell flat on
my face because I had the cameras up in the air.
I was a bang. That was good fun.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
One of them probably fell holding a beer in each
hand earlier and saved the same. So hopefully they gave
you the same cheer they heard.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They heard the Australian accent, and I think they're a
little bit more sympathetic. And you know, it's it's quite
internationally Australian accident. It travels. Yeah, so yeah, it was
friendly friendly fire.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
There you go. And then what's the I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I've never kind of actually thought to even ask these
quite but the you know, do you as a as
a photographer in the media, are you do you have
a predetermined route that you're supposed to take based on
your team? Do you can you audible as you go?
Do you stay in one spot? Do you move with
a certain group? How does that is there plan? I'm
assuming there's a pre plan that goes out. How does
that all work?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So I was pretty much a lone ranger, you know,
other than the work that I was doing with Evan.
You know, I'm obviously working for Australian Golf Digest. It
was focus on the Australian So you know, you've got
a plan you're planning based around the tea times, so
you know you might have some Australians there are a
team off at seven am and then some of the
are team off two pm, so you you know you're
there the whole day. And if you miss the te
(10:40):
off for an example at seven am because you're driving
down from Edinburgh, get caught in a bit of open
traffic and then you sort of pluck you know, well,
I'll pick them up as they come around to tenth
while the next group of team off off the first
and I can sort of you know, you just really
learn how to sort of map it out. But within
the organization, yeah, you get issued a map. The map
(11:00):
has a very strict routing for photographers and photography positions
that you can only sort of work it walk in
certain routes in certain ways, and there's a whole heap
of no stand zones predominantly you know, where hoardings are
and sponsor banners are and all that sort of thing,
and TV cameras. You know, they don't want anyone you
know that's administrative, whether that's a marshal, whether it's a
(11:21):
photographer or anyone like that on the ground to be
in front of any of that, so there's quite strict guidelines.
But for me it was just you know, follow the Australians,
you know, follow the scores, see who's where, and just
get some shots and you know the rest of it
is try to capture those moments, you know when when
they do something, you're like, what I did learn is
back in my early days of taking photos, you know,
(11:42):
I was trying to get golf balls that impact and
swings and all the beautiful stuff. But really, you know,
that's not the interesting stuff. The interesting stuff is trying
to get a handshake or a club in the air
or some of those little things that we do as golfers,
people's faces in the background and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Element.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, yeah, it's just trying to get some of those
moments that really signify what's actually happened that emotion. And
that's really again the learning and the challenge that I
had to pick up and get a hold of really
quickly at the Open for example this year.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's like a whole new world.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
If you don't even think about as a spectator, can
you just follow the ropes and you don't think about
the strategy and all the I never would have even
thought that they would restrict you from standing in front
of sponsor banners or that no no stand zones.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
That's that's interesting, Yeah, very much. Sorry, So I want
to pivot roster.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I know there's there's been obviously a lot of talk
about the TGL League and the golf simulators, and there's
kind of been front and center. I know you were
very early into the simulator space. I think as far
back as I was it fourteen or fifteen, it was
like ten, like a decade ago basically, what like, I'm
just curious as I have, I had no idea what
(12:53):
a simulator even looked like back then.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Like, what's what's changed? What have you?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know, what was it like in the early days,
And you know, what's the evolution kind of been that
you've seen, you know, from being one of the early
kind of adopters to today.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Chris has been probably a couple of different sort of
propulsions or evolution of adoption of golf. Simulated tech is
a legitimate form of golf. And you know, back in
the twenty fourteen my organization that I was a partner
in or a party to partner with, we're also a
partner with Golf Australia the peak body of golf in Australia,
(13:27):
and I remember in those early days, you know, we
would talk to them about, hey, we should partner with
Golf Australia, who were responsible for golf on golf courses
and offer golfers a way to do golf more regularly,
more frequently and competitively in an indoor space. And to paraphrase,
the Golf Australia sort of feedback was no, no, no,
(13:48):
that's not USA. Roll forward a few years, you know,
come COVID, Come the proliferation of golf, the uptaking off.
Everyone wants to do golf. Golf's now the cool sport.
All of a sudden, it was yeah, all golf is golf,
and they were back to us, going, let's see how
we can integrate our database and your database and bring
people to you and you to us. So it really
(14:08):
flipped that sort of orientation and that was I guess
signified the mentality of the people, because you know, post COVID,
people wanted to play golf short, sharp, more often. They
wanted that adrenaline rush and that sort of endorphin boost
that you get from hitting a golf shop and shot
and they wanted it more often and more conveniently, and
that's when we saw people really coming into the stores
(14:30):
in drows And then you're throwing the entertainment aspect, you know,
all of a sudden, Now playing golf and doing golf
with a group of people, whether it's a corporate or
a buck party or a party of anergy description, that
was a legitimate way to do entertainment. You know, we
can play golf, we can have a social occasion, have
a drink, eat and do that. And that then became
just another thing like the early days of putt putt golf.
(14:53):
You know, now you could do it in a simulate
and have a very realistic and fun experience. So it
changed a lot. You know, it seemed like a a
long time at the time, but it actually moved pretty rapidly,
especially that sort of COVID period. But many of those
early days in twenty fourteen, at the end of twenty forteen,
when we put four very expensive simulators into an extension
of a retail golf shop and then tried to call
(15:14):
it a brand and tried to do.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
All of this.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You know, there were some nights there I sat there
with the lights on and no customers wondering, you know,
where we'd spent the money and how are we going
to make it back? And you know, slowly but surely
people come into practice coaching. People wanted to get coaching
at seven o'clock at night on the way home from work.
It just started to happen. And now we see what
you mentioned, you know, TGL and the proliferation of indoor venues,
(15:39):
you know, driving ranges with top trace coaching with technology,
you know, any form of where you can measure the ball,
and what I do now, you know, I've just moved
into working with the Foresight Sports group, you know, using
that skill knowledge that I had, and now working for
Sight Sports Europe anywhere who can track the golf ball
and the golf club. You know, people want to want
that information to improve their golf. And then obviously there's
(16:01):
the end to timements out of it. You know, with
technology and software, it's amazing what actually can happen these days.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, it's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I go to the PGA show every year and the
I always joke I come back. I feel like each
year there's one product group that's like everywhere, and I
feel like, to your point, since COVID simulators all of
a sudden, we're like every every turn you could try
a different company, a different brand. And you know, last
year there was a lot of three D like trying
(16:30):
to do censor or marker lists, three D capture and
all that sort of stuff along with a lot of
the simulators. You know, have you seen that there's been
kind of brands or thing, maybe not even brands, but
features that have kind of come and go and come
and gone, but others that kind of through the last
decade or so have kind of proven that, you know, hey,
(16:51):
these are the main features of a successful simulator. That's
just the reason I'm asking this will help to give
some context. A lot of people that listen, a lot
of my customers of just people listening, particularly if they're
up north, are looking to put sims into their house, right,
They're looking to you know, to your point, I want
to practice when there's snow on the ground and what's
and now absolutely now you have the online gaming and
(17:12):
you know they can do all that sort of stuff.
So you know, somebody who's had the experience that you've had,
I mean, what are some of the features or you know,
I don't know if there's brands that are like for
different things that are better. What if someone was a
total novice, you know, what would be some of the
kind of key things to think about as you're looking
at SIMS.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I think the thing that people look for and remember
but sometimes I don't always realize is the way that
the technology works and how quick it works. And there
are definitely some technologies out there that you know, are
able to work and give you a more realistic experience
in a much more advanced way than some of the
technologies in the main you know, technology advancement and development now,
(17:55):
you know, we see it in everything that we do
see in touch happens pretty quick and things can change
pretty quick. But usually the companies that are really heavily
invested in golf ball measurement, you know, the first to
really hone in on the best form of technology to
give you the most realistic experience. So what I mean
by that is, you know, when you hit a shot
and it hits the screen, you don't want a lag
(18:16):
in the golf ball moving towards the target. You know,
you want to see the ball hit the screen and
continue and the good manufacturers do that really well. And
there are a number of ways that the technology can work.
You know, I mentioned Foresight Sports. You know, camera based technology,
so it's really highly developed high speed cameras, measuring the
golf ball at the point of touch, measuring the club
(18:38):
as it comes into impact, and measuring the spin of
the golf ball to give you all of this advanced measurement.
Now for a coach, you know, which a lot of
these simulators are being used for, especially people you know,
like you mentioned, who are putting them in home because
they don't get access to all year round golf. You know,
if they can get coaching data and coaching information through
technology and they know how to interpret themselves, or they
(19:01):
can work with a coach and send the data remotely,
you know, via video.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know, we've if.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
You know about the Skiller stapp you know Biden Biden
Chaff in Australia has developed a Skiller stap which has
enabled coaches to do online coaching globally. Well, if they
can get access to data and accurate data, then a
coach can really help a customer in a simulator in
a remote environment and that's been a huge sort of
thing for the people to want to get simulation at home.
(19:26):
Am I answering the question correctly? The next technologies? I
guess everyone has a different version of how they measure
the golf ball. And if you listen to all the
companies talking, you know they'll do it better and faster.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yea, everyone's got the best, the best idea. What's I
think one of the big questions I hear from a
lot of people, are you mentioned the camera based like
People don't understand that there's Doppler base, there's camera based
like that. There's different types of measurement systems. You know,
what are how do they what's the difference? I guess
is probably the biggest question that I get asked a
lot when people come into our place.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yell, I can't. Yeah, I'm not going to talk about
brand specific because you know, I've not had as much
experience with some of the brands. But you know, radar
Doppler radar people will be familiar with the units that
sit behind the golf ball and they tracked the golf
ball as a projectile. You know, this is radar technology
that emanates from military technology in many respects, so it
(20:18):
has the ability to track a projectile leaving the golf
ball and from there you know, there's a number of
measurements and algorithms that the radar is able to do
to project the flight and some of the circumstances that
impact you know, the direction of the ball towards the target.
So the other technology in the simulators that I had
back in the store was a combination of camera and infrared.
(20:43):
So you know, the example being you would hit the
golf ball, the camera would capture the moment of impact
of the golf ball, not in super high frames per second,
but it would have enough to orient the technology to
point the ball to where it needs to go towards
the target which is on the screen. And then there
were some infrared curtains, so the ball would pass through
infrared curtains and have a measurement and then project that
(21:06):
onto a screen. That's another way. And then there's you know,
what I'm more familiar with now is this high speed
camera quadroscopic. You know, if you think about to use
the term of the camera or the product that I
can talk about because I work with a company GC
quad quadroscopic, four cameras looking at the club as you
move into the ball point of touch, and then as
(21:27):
the ball leaves and just really high speed cameras. You know,
my camera's up here in the cupboard do one hundred
and twenty five frames of seconds. You know, these do
a thousands of frames a second, so it can really
look onto a dimple and give you very accurate what
we call closed data. That's very valuable for a coach.
But you know, it also gives you the ability to
have realistic golf simulation. Then there's the tech. Then there's
(21:48):
the software technology behind it all, and everyone again has
their own software. They'll develop their own version of realistic courses.
And some of the courses are licensed. The manufacturers have
to pay fees for them, and if you have a simulator,
sometimes you can buy a course, you know, if you
have to pay for it. It's usually some sort of
licensing and growment with a course. And then there's open
source technical simulation.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
So for example, the names of those courses sometimes are
pretty funny. You'll see like Augusta, but it's called like
Georgia Golf Club or something.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
You got it. So you know, the fund that you
can have is endless, you know, like it's you know,
I saw some courses on one of the simular software
the other day, you know, it blew me away, Like
I thought, I know that course in Australia and I've
never played there, probably drive past it a thousand times,
but it's mapped here on this someone someone at home
has mapped it in this open source software.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So yeah, it's actually we have one of the there's
a local course near our facility here that a lot
of the our members are actually members of and they
will come and play their home course on the simulator.
You know, let's say, oh that trees needs to be
you know, ten yards left or you know, it's amazing. Yeah,
but they I mean, the accuracy of it is is
pretty cool. And I think the for I appreciate you
(23:01):
kind of going into the details of the different types
of monitor. I don't think people realize there's the actual
launch monitor and then there's the software on top of it.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's you know, it's not just one thing. You kind
of have to get them to work together.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And I think the other thing that I have found
that people don't realize, like I think for a lot
of the Doppler systems, you need a lot more space
as opposed to the GC quad. Basically you can just
go right next, you know, So particularly for home units.
I feel like that has been a big deciding factor
for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Would you kind of say that as well.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Well, again you're not talking specifics, but you know, like
any of the rear based radars, you need a certain
amount of distance between the impact area and the screen
for the ball to travel, for it to be reliably
and accurately pick it up to give you that calibrated distance.
Whereas a camera based system you can really, as I
(23:49):
said before, measure it within a closed space. So define
space and give you, you know, very accurate measurements that way,
so you know, you can have smaller distances between the
hitting zone and the screen. So it does it can
save a little bit of space. The other thing to
think about, you know, which I've learned is, you know,
in my shop in Melbourne, you know, if you wanted
(24:10):
to play left and right handed, you had to effectively
have two modules, one on the right and one on
the left. If you wanted to have a smaller space
sim you can get wide sims and smaller space sims,
so it basically doubled the cost. You know, you had
two camera units and all of the technology that sits
above for people to click back and forward to play
left right handed. Of course, we know there are more
left handed golfers these days. They are growing, but there's
(24:33):
not as many. But you had to have it that
that creates cost. You know, if you can find a
solution that allows you to play left and right handed
with one technology bundle above you, but katus with left
and right handed, that's a real win for me. I
know that. You know one of our products does that
really well. Yeah, the Gesse Hawk Jesse the Foresight Falcon
(24:54):
is the latest and it's a little more need still
quadoscopic cameras, but and has a really large hitting area
so you can flip back and forward. It's fantastic. Yeah,
I've already worked for the place for a month now
and I'm blind.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Why take so Yeah, that's awesome. But that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
You know, I appreciate you giving that insight because I
think that's those have been some considerations when we've had
people ask they'll come see our setup, and you know,
obviously weird. We've gotten eleven thousand square foot building. Like
space is not an issue for a couple of sims,
you know what I mean. But you know, somebody putting
it up in a bonus room like that's a that's
a concern for them. So I appreciate you you diving
into that, and Russ I I want to be I
want to be respectful of your time here. I can't
(25:31):
thank you enough for the insights into the you know,
just what it's like to do the photography just from
an artistic side, but also just the experience of being
inside the ropes. That was that was that was pretty cool.
That's first, definitely the first time we've learned about that
on the show. And then obviously the insight into the simulators.
I think that those those have been some questions that
I get all the time. So but I can't thank
you enough for your insight and expertise on that. But
(25:52):
if people wanted to follow you or kind of kind
of keep up with what you're doing, what's the what's
what's the best place for them to do that?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It's sure the best place to follow me is socially,
is through Instagram. You can get me at Ross dot
Flannagan dot golf. Flannagan spelt an unconventional way f l
A double n I g A N and yeah, Ross
dot Flannagan dot golf. You can hook up there and
see some of the photos that I've taken, and you know,
as the journey progresses, as I moved back into this,
(26:21):
you know, I've sort of come out of the simulator
world and move back into that sort of technology world.
I'll keep my hand at the photography where I can,
but you know, sort of double double dipping on a
lot of fronts. But you know, the focus is, you know,
helping the Scottish golfing community become familar with the products.
And you know, if someone was to, for example, wanting
to open an indoor golf facility and they needed someone
(26:42):
that they could talk to and you know, have some
independent insights into what it's like to run, how it
can be successful. You know, what are the areas to
look for to make it profitable, and you know all
of the nuances and machinations that you know, certainly I'm
in a good position to be able to discuss those things.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, it will be. I wouldn't surprised.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
At some point in the next couple of months you
get you get some people sent over from me who
are asking me.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I say, you know what, just co talk to us.
We get that question all the times.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
We don't do like commercially, we have dual force plates
in the middle, so to do commercial like hitting doesn't
make sense for us because the number of people who
think that the force plate is where they're supposed to
hit off of drives me nuts.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's like, no, no, no, please, don't hit off that.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But we'll have a lot of people who say they
think that we have indoor sims and you know, you
should do you should you know, do you know leagues
and all those sorts of things, and we're starting to
see them pop up all over the place.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Here in North Carolina, and so definitely that we send
some people to you.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Chris, there was one tech and you know, if we
leave this to the end or you put it back
here in that Yeah, I think I mentioned it sports
box AI.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I met jahan Jahann, the young lady from America who
formed LPGA Player. I met her at the Open and
she told me about what she was developing, this AI
based training platform on where you know, using camera phone
camera can map you your body AI wise and then
(28:08):
give you measurements on your golf swing. And we were
just talking and I hadn't really grasped this whole AI
and how it could affect what we do in terms
of golf golf, retail golf, training, golf learning. And I
just started to extrapolate my mind to what the potential
is there. You know, I know the manufacturers you know,
all talking about the next evolutions of product. You know,
(28:30):
like they're really pushing the boundaries now with product and
what they can get out of the face. You know,
it's obviously measured. You know, they're pushing the boundaries in
terms of forgiveness and this maxing out the MOI, minimizing
weight where it's not required. What can they do? You know?
I think AI is going to be a big player
in how we consider fitting people for golf and training
people for golf. Back to your space there, and I
(28:51):
jumped on Sportsbox AI in the Foresight syndown in our
London head office and immediately, you know, it showed up
so many deficiencies in in my swing movement or my mobility.
I've got a good swing. I'm a four handicapped guy,
older guy, but you know as I get older, I'm
losing this mobility and this sports box I just put
(29:12):
my numbers straight up against Okay, puts it against a
tour player that's what I said for it to do that.
I could see hip rotation, I could see my hand speed,
I could see all these other key markers which I've
always prided myself as a ball striker. And it come
down to my left side. My left side is terribly weak.
(29:32):
Ankle injury, ankle injury from rugby league, a ductor injury
from slipping on some wet grass cadding. For a friend
and a pri am, you could just see everything and
these numbers are stacked up and for someone like you, you know,
you would just go bang bam bang, Okay, let's work
on here and here, and it would be It was
(29:53):
so powerful. But then when I think about that, how
we could use that to fit people rather than the
static way fingertips the floor and lying bullets and all
of that, all stuff that's been doing happened for fifty years.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You could actually see it dynamically. Yeah, and that'd be
such a change. Yeah, that's one thing we've seen on
the There's there's sports box. There's another company, Mustard Golf
as another one. These a little different way that they
do the the AI assessments and those sorts of things.
But yeah, I mean it's coming. I mean that I said,
I think I said earlier last year at the PGA show,
so would have been.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, there was.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
There was so many like put in air quotes if
you influcing podcasts can't see this, but AI technology solutions
that really were just you.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Know l ms.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
They weren't actual AI, but they were you know, the
push to try to be the first or the race
to get there, like what sports boxes obviously a leader
in that space, and what is going to come of
that in the next five years is absolutely like I
think it's thrilling in terms of the advances, you know,
the advances that we've had in the fitness and the
(30:55):
understanding how to train the skill of speed in the
last five years, with the you know, force plates becoming
more accessible with you know, more data, you know, you
know just internally we've been able to put fifteen thousand
people on force plates and the amount of learning that
you get like now all of a sudden, Oh yeah,
you want speed, It's very easy you do that right
to your point, you start putting people from a fitting
perspective or retail like through those AI module like models
(31:18):
are even just.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Like hey, what shirt should you be? Like what cut
would fit? You better.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I mean, like if we're talking like like clothes, you know,
if we're talking equipment seeing dynamic versus actual static measurement,
those sorts of things, and yeah, it's I think there's
going to be another jump in the within the next
three to five years. As that continues to get more
and more data points, it continues to get more refined,
it continues to learn, and then obviously as the retailers
learn how to integrate in a way that's consumer friendly,
(31:46):
right where it's digestible and not written in a PhDa level,
it's like, hey, click this button, go do this right,
like to the simplicity of like an Amazon. I think
it's it's going to be really really cool. So yeah,
I can't thank you enough for coming on today, Ross,
and we're definitely gonna have to have you on again
and continue the conversations, particularly as all this stuff evolved.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So thank you so much for the time today.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, pleasure, absolutely pleasure, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Cool, awesome everybody listening.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Definitely go check out We'll put A Ross's contact stuff
in the show notes. Definitely reach out to him, especially
if you are thinking about simulator simulator business. Ending along
those lines, he's been there, he's done that. Don't play
the course blindly. Played with someone who's done it and
caddied it ten thousand times tends to go better. And
as always, thanks for hanging out with me here on
Nikolf in this bom squat, and we'll catch you on
the next episode.
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