April 23, 2026 • 50 mins
Seth and Tray dive into a topic close to home: the greatest point guards of the 2010s — a loaded era featuring elite talent, former teammates, and even a little family rivalry.
They debate the strengths of true floor generals like Rajon Rondo and Chris Paul, explosive playmakers like Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose, and shot-creating stars like Kyrie Irving and Stephen Curry.
Seth shares firsthand insight on how Steph redefined the point guard position, how Rondo made it a priority to get him looks during their time with the Sacramento Kings, and why Damian Lillard stood out as the ultimate leader during their run with the Portland Trail Blazers.
Then things heat up, as Seth and Tray reveal their Top 5 lists — sparking a passionate and controversial debate you won’t want to miss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Steph's been a point guard his whole his whole life.
I think he'll tell you this and the same my
dad will tell you this all along in high school,
med school, my dad would tell him shoot the ball more,
you need to score more. He was a point guard
growing up his whole life. He wanted to pass, He
want to facility.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome back to another episode of Greatest of their Era?
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Doc Tray?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
What's good?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Another episode? Another week?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Another episode, another week.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, let's put this topic right here, right up my alley.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I was gonna say, you're in this now. You're in
this now, so you got a lot to speak on
on this. You know, some of my some of my
favorite type of basketball players are on this list, and
it caused a huge debate, but you know, you got
a chance to speak on it in first hand. So
I'm curious to see what's it like guarding these players
(00:53):
and their experience and mutual respect.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Man.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And today we're talking about the greatest point guards to
the twenty tens. You know, we're currently in the twenty twenties,
but you started your career in the twenty tens, and
you've got a chance to face off with this guy
all your life, Your brother Steph Curry, you know what
I mean, changed the game the way he was played
full stop of course, but also Chef Curry Man, ridiculous,
(01:17):
ridiculous stat line, four rings, twelve All Star selections, two
scoring titles. But you're the better shooter as of last
year three point percentage man. You know that's a fun debate.
What's it like guarding your brother in practice now as
a member of the Warriors, but also playing against each
other since day one?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I mean we've been battling obviously growing up. Our whole
life's just one on one matchups in the backyard, practice
in high school, get into it, really competitive in every way.
So I think those battles molded us into really who
we are today. That's mean you always got somebody to
measure up with side by side growing up. I'm always
chasing him, trying to be better, trying to work as hard,
(01:57):
and I mean, I mean, it's nobody better really to
model my work ethic and game work at work ethic
and game over throughout my career. So I think before
we get into this, this this PG of the twenty
tenth topic, we need to, like, what's your what's your
your your idea on like what is a PG? Because
in this era, point guards are kind of transition. Like
(02:20):
a lot of these guards guys are gonna talk about
it's not the traditional point guard anymore. Scores. You got
to be able to score, to play the positions like
Rogrono's kind of getting phased out a little bit. Guys
like that who trying to facilitate and not really think
about their own offense. Do you consider like what do
you have? You have your thoughts changed? It all what
you consider a point guard. And when you're making your
(02:42):
list of top five point guards of this era.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I'm glad you say that the criteria has definitely changed,
because you know, if we're talking about right when your
brother got drafted and we talk about you know, him
succeeding in certain certain eras and you say, oh, man,
well he don't. It's a this ain't up or he's
not you know, bringing the ball up and these things,
and the latter changes so much, you know what I
(03:06):
mean to an extent, and you look at points per game,
you look at impact, you look at certain things and
what's being asked of. There were point guards back in
the day, in the nineties that scored, you know what
I mean, It wasn't just a he averaged four points
a game and he averaged fifteen assists or you know,
the assist to turnover ratio. It's always been something that we've
kind of moved in the help of our the sake
(03:28):
of our argument, you know what I mean, Like he
acts like this person better exactly. So it gets a
little tricky, and I think the beauty of this we
have a mix of so many players, you know what
I mean that on certain certain teams they're actually be
done doing certain you know, certain things, because how can
Chris Paul be a point guy. But Chris Paul could
average eighteen points a game, you know what I'm saying.
(03:50):
He's still shooting the ball. He's still a top option
in this thing. But they'll say, oh, but he's looking
for as assists when you go look at STEP's assists
and Steph have an assist game too, if you really
are paying attention to that, I think it's just the
way of the style of play. And point guards are
like a hybrid now, you know what I mean, Like
you're going to get a lot of shots depending on
(04:12):
your roster. If you don't cool. And most of the time,
the best player is the point guard nowadays, So I
think that's the difference of what it used to be.
I think the best of the best play the point guard,
and they have the ball in their hands eighty something
percent of the time of the game, and they're making
the best decisions. So whether it's shooting or getting into
the next person, that's a point guard. But I don't
(04:34):
think it puts a blemish on the greatest all time conversation,
you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I think you use your common sense, man, you know
what a point I think we know what a point
guard is. Yes, Like I think the criteria change when
people start putting Steph Curry in the top five point guards,
argument Matt measuring up with Isaiah with Magic, They're like, oh,
but he not a real point guard. Just to make
that point, right, But it's always been different.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But that also wouldn't be the case if we had
to talk about Isaiah because Isaiah is similar. Isaiah scores
the ball a lot more than he passes.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, but I mean he did score the ball, but
he's different than the way he orchestraated the offense like
he was coming out absolutely really point people around and
if he needed to score, he needed to score. But
Steph's been a point guard his whole his whole life.
I think he'll tell you this and the same my
dad will tell you this all along in high school,
middle school, my dad would tellhim shoot the ball more,
(05:32):
you need to score more. He was a point guard
growing up his whole life. He wanted to pass, he
wanted to facilitate. He could always dribble, but he could
score too. And then I think as he got older
and realized his best skill was shooting and scoring the ball,
coaches brought that out even more. And then obviously Steve
Kirk came in and ran him off the ball, and
that's when everybody, oh, now he's he's a shooting guard.
Draymond's the point guard, Draymond. Draymond's a point for guilty.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I'm guilty of that argument. Like I said, I'm guilty,
but I think it was just to stroke my own
ego in a debate. You get what I'm saying, Like,
if I'm probably your point, it helps my point a
lot in certain things, You know what I mean. And
as we're going to talk about one of my personal
favorite point guards on this list, you would see why
(06:16):
why I'm kind of pushing that agenda to to knock
Steph down and not him be at the top of
my list. So I'm glad that you stayed at that.
Before we even run down this list, you mentioned Steph already.
Let's talk about Chris Paul, another North Carolina guy that
you guys grew up watching but also instrumental going to
his camps and you know, just leaning on his you know,
(06:38):
advice and and and his path. You know what I mean,
as a professional, you know what I mean. And he
has been dubbed the point gud for so long. You
know what I mean when you think about those those
debates in the two thousands and what a point guard
is supposed to be looking like. You know what I mean,
like those debates. Man, just looking at Chris Paul and
his high IQ and the way he carried himself, you
(07:00):
know what I mean, for the twenty years that he's played.
So let me know your thoughts of gardening the CP
or being on the court and what's his effectiveness on
the floor.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Cep probably the smartest player I've been around, played against
all that I was able to pick his brain growing
up in college obviously being the North Carolina guy. And
he's he's like the quintessential floor leader of floor general
coach on the floor. And that's what I think when
you're having an argument, that's what people then the traditionalist
(07:30):
view is a point guard right running the team. He's
looking to get his guys going first. But then also
he can close games with his scoring. And I mean
he's a winner. To me, he's a winner. He he
hadn't won a champion, he didn't win a championship. But
if he was on a team, you were in contention,
like you had a chance, you were making the playoffs.
You had a chance and caught some bad breaks. But
(07:52):
I mean, anytime I'm talking point guards, and if you
don't bring up CP, you you're fooling yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Man.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Like he's his foot printers and all the guys on
his list, his footprint is on. He's taught them the game.
He's taught him some since of the game. He's he's
helped him out in their careers. He's competed against them,
he's pushed them to be better. Like when guys like
Steph was coming in Kyrie Russ damn Autum, when they
were coming into the league, like it or not, they
(08:18):
measured themselves up against Chris Paul. When they feel like
they got to that level, they feel like they arrived
right and they were working to get better than him
and pass him as a player. So that's the ultimate
respect to CP right there.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Also, my respect just changes when he's going to the
worst team sometimes right the back end of his career,
he's going to the worst teams and willing them to
the playoffs, and so what I mean, But that's a
testament to himself of like he could complain and ripe
that whole year and say, ah, man, I should you know, like, hey,
this is where you know he embraced every time he
(08:52):
went to you know, a young team and and and
got the best out of his team. You know what
I mean. So kudos to Chris Paul. Man I wouldn't
necessarily not call him a winner because he's one in
certain situations that has elevated younger you younger people that
didn't know how to win and taught them how to win,
which allowed them to be effective. Okay, see, probably doesn't
(09:13):
get over the hump Shay gildersh Alexander doesn't know how
to figure out these type of you know, situations in
the NBA Finals. If he doesn't, if he isn't played
under the leadership of Chris Paul, you know what I mean.
And I just think those are the things that are
unsung in certain journeys, you know what I mean, Like
you just go, you go down the line, you know
what I mean. And I'm pretty sure like as a
(09:33):
competitor or as a teammate or whatever, you know, when
you when you zoom out, Chris Paul is one of
the greatest point guards.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
This game has seen, no question, no question at a uh.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
This other point guard plays in the end the hardest
I've ever seen, plays like he's not tired still to
this day. Prime Russell Westwood is one of those ones
I love to call him and d Rose Royu and
Ken you know one one MVP definitely kind of self built,
you know what I mean. Russ was drafted as a
(10:06):
defender from UCLA turn point guard and just kind of
learned on the job, but just has been so effective,
you know what I mean. And it's a live by Russ,
die by Russ. And in these nineteen seasons, man, he's
been one of those dudes you know what I mean
as a nine time All Star, three time assist Champ
twenty twenty twenty, which is something that you just don't
no matter how you look at it, whether you feel
(10:28):
like it's forced or not, it's still hard to do.
It's hard to do on video games. So the idea
that this dude has averaged more than a trip on
double more than one season when you really think about it,
Like I remember that conversation. You were a bit younger
at the time, but they were talking about who would
be a who would be the first player to do
this outside of Oscar Robertson, And I was like, Lebron,
(10:51):
I was for sure it was gonna be Lebron. I
was like, Yo, Cleveland's playing him at the one. He
can rebound, he loves to pass, he can go easily
get ten points, like a no brainer. And it was
harder to do than you possibly he could think of,
you know what I mean, regardless if you mapped it
out or not, because you know, you got big Man
trying to rebound to hit their quota. You got certain
people that's not making shots when you pass it to him,
(11:11):
and yeah, you're trying to get your points. Maybe an
off night. Russell Rushbrook did that thing entire season plus,
So the idea of yay, he's gonna be a Hall
of Famer, But like the intensity, And when you talk
about Russ, you hear nothing but great things as his
teammates and the organizations that he played for, you know
what I mean. He's one of those dudes, man that
(11:32):
you just love, you love to have on your team.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, two things when I think about Russ. One like,
when do you see a point guard be the most
athletic and most physical person on the floor that's doing
his prom. That's what it was, and that's that's rare,
Like maybe d Rose and his prom was the most athletic,
but it wasn't the most physical like Russ that he
was that guy on the floor. He got like centers
(11:55):
of shining away from contact on him. You would see
it all the time. And two, he was gonna put
your feet to the fire every time. Like when you
before you played against Russ, you had to get your
year of sleep. You had to be on full alert
because no matter he having a great game, having one
of his worst games, he wasn't gonna stop. He was
gonna come at you full speed. Gonna keep shooting, keep
(12:15):
pushing the pace, like he's gonna he's gonna test where
you at that game. And I mean that's that's what
you respect, the respect about him. And we going to
this next guy, Dame Lillard who I played with it
in twenty nineteen. We played him the Thunder in the
first round and I got a first hand witness those
two going at it for five games, and that was
(12:36):
the highest competition I've ever seen in my life. Like
being a part of the series. Yeah, like there was
it was heat. You see, you thought they you really
thought they hate each other personally the way they were
going at a game after game. Obviously it was just competition, Yeah,
competition respect, Yeah, but it was it was high level competition.
And you see two of the best point guards going
at every night. It was it was I was a
(12:58):
privileged to be a part of the witness it, and
I think when when you left that series, you got
a greater respect for both of those guys, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean I'm seeing these these nasty agendas
about you know, it's damn a Hall of Famer, and
it's like, what are we talking about? Like, what are
we talking about this dude is, if not one of
the greatest Blazers to ever lay some up, but just
also just his impact on how you know, he's a winner,
one of the you know, outside of your brother, one
(13:28):
of the best three point shooters, you know what I
mean this game and scene like Bros. Is he really
liked that for real? You know what I mean? And
especially great out of Weaverer state. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, great teammate, a hooper and well as to his legacy,
to be honest, is he's he's synonymous with that Blazers organization,
even like even though he left for a year or two,
going back rekindling that that relationship with the Blazers, like that,
even though you didn't win, sticking it out with that
organization and round with him. When the career is over,
(14:00):
it's gonna be something to be said about that. Like
he like I said, he's another guy who I feel
like is a winner. He just ran in the bus
offs like he keept running his steaf you know what
I'm saying. He ran into different teams who were just better.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
His version of Jordan cut a lot of water off man,
you know what I'm saying. Like we really think about that.
It's just there there are all those there are all
those brick wall moments, man, where you're just like, you
know enough was it wasn't good enough, you know what
I mean, Like I give him my all, and some teams,
you know what I mean, you're just not gonna get
over the hump man and Dame you know, fortunately, you
know like I said, the Warriors teams was you, I
(14:33):
mean you you were part of their team when y'all
had to face them, you know, as far as y'all
possibly could man at the at the highest peak.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
We had a great team with the wars was just
a little bit better. They were just a little bit better.
But Dame, I mean when it was the think about
Dame two, when he ain't shy away from the spotlight
of all, when the games was the biggest, he was
gonna put it on his shoulders. He won't gonna shy away.
He's gonna You're gonna win it or lose it for us,
you know what I'm saying. In that first series, the
boy coming in with the stats thirty three six and four,
(15:03):
Rush twenty three, eleven and nine with PG on his team,
and PG was hooping two. So I mean, like, that's
two of the best point guards you ever see matched
up in a Round one series. That was like peak
playoff basketball to me.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean I might have to go
back and watch it, honestly because it just was. It
just was that intense and you know, just high intensity
hoops at his best man that can't be recreated sometimes.
This next player, outside of Mark Price, I think he's
one of the greatest point guards to come out of
Caves history. Kyrie Irvin Hit one of the biggest shots
(15:37):
in the franchise, you know history, but also just you know,
nine time All Star, you know, champion, three time All NBA,
twenty twelve Rookie the Year, twenty fourteen All Star, MVP,
also Olympic and you know, FEBA Gold medals. Kyrie is
one of those guys that just I love watching him play,
you know what I mean, he can you know, add
(15:58):
six two, you can play the two well. But he's
just one of those like it almost feels like you're
being rocked to sleep when you watching him play dark
because it's just like the camera's moving with him and
you know, he has a specific style. It's probably one
of the prettiest games on this list. You know what
I mean, because it's just you know, however you feel
you look up that thirty gonna look nice, that fifty
(16:18):
gonna look nice, even a twenty ball gonna look nice.
You know what I mean, make it look you know
what I mean. He's one of those players that every
time he plays, I'm turning the TV on and epectfully,
I gotta watch it. No question, man, I played with him.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I played with him a three different dude, Brooklyn Dallas,
I mean every time, like it, don't get old washing
him play just like you said, the grace the skill level,
and he don't got he don't predetermine nothing like his
skill level was so high he take with the defense
give him. He one of the best shooters I've ever
been around, which is people don't talk about enough. Obviously
(16:56):
talk about his ball handling, his finishing, But if you
back up off them, he gonna make eight nine threes.
Like he can shoot the heck out of the ball
from every part of the floor.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And you think that he make the game harder for
himself sometimes, like I think eight he had to have
a fun, difficult situation sometimes like all right, I'm kind
of bored with this, so I'm gonna change his easy
lay up into something that just you know, I've been
working on and try it out, and I'm just like,
you know, you could make great easier.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's what the great ones do. They challenge themselves and
you get a little board out there, you try to
have fun, testing limit, see what you can do. I
think Steph is the same way. You know what I'm saying.
He's doing some crazy passes, doing some unnecessary moves, shooting
it from two steps further than he has to. Kyrie.
You know what I'm saying, Why did you you you
had a water layup on the right side, Why you
(17:46):
had to switch it to the left and dipsy do
underneath the others? Yeah, it was no need for that,
no need to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
But he's on the show, show him and you're getting
the price of admission. That's why they love him in Dallas,
all right. Other one champion probably gonna be the greatest
raptor of all time. They call it the grot. Kyle Lowry.
Six straight All Star appearances, top ten VP finished in
twenty sixteen, a title in twenty nineteen. You know, definitely
(18:13):
one of those guys Kyle played twenty years. I'll watch
his career go up and down and you know, finally
finding a home in Toronto and actually, you know, turning
it up, you know what I mean. He I remember
even the last two three seasons he was one of
the salt after guys. Like if he gets brought out,
you go and get Kyle Lowry and he's gonna change
it and you probably win the championship. And not just
a respect to his impact as you know, a guard
(18:37):
and you know, being able to join a company and
be a part of this group.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, you gotta. I mean what I respect about Kyle's
career is he he grinded it out. Like when his
first five six years you thought he'd probably be an
average player, maybe a role guy, borderline starter. Then he
just turned it up and became an All Star. And
you have that debate, is he a Hall of Fame
or is he not? I think he's gonna get in personally.
(19:05):
But this is the typical argument of who's better the
guy who had the longer run of sustained success or
the highest peak. You know what I'm saying. That's that's
the debate, Like who was better at that prom we
got a d Rose who had a who had a
great stress for three four years, or Mike who had
Mike or not Mike but Mike, I mean kindy, but
(19:27):
Kyle Lowry, who, like I said, a longer career of
sustained really good. Like what's what's your thoughts on the
peak versus longevity argument when you're making your top fives
or ranking your top point guards.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I'm going with longevity because you have to do it
for a said amount of time, you know what I mean.
Like everybody can have one good season, everybody can have
two good seasons, you know what I mean. And injuries
happen and that's part of the game, but like that's
not that's not one of those things of like okay,
well we're just gonna push them through anyway, you know
what I mean. Like that's one way. One too many
stories like that in this league. But I do think
he gets in as a six straight All Star appearance
(20:02):
and then also Olympic gold medal, and he's gonna be
mister Raptor. Like you know, Vince Carter added all to
this thing. But obviously Vince car had to do his
thing to get there. The you know, the t Max
and everybody that's been there, even Kawhi played a huge
role in it. But when you think of longevity and
the impact what he's done with the franchise, Kyle is
gonna get in.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, you see, you see the response he got every
time he goes back to to Toronto with Philly, they're
arguing that's still his franchise. They're arguing it to this day.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
He's missed like he's going to have a front office
job if you want it, Like he's mister Raptor over there,
like regardless of what you think. You know what I mean,
if you wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
To people underrating and when the era of people switching
teams and going here, going there, being associated with one
franchise and then calling it your home, it's it's it
means something, man, especially when you're done. And also if
you want.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
To have a home you want or another country like
exactly you brought a Canadian title.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
He up there with the hockey players above the yep North. Yes,
when you really.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Think about that, that that's that's a whole different conversation
when you think about it, all right. Rajion Rondeau, my favorite,
my favorite off this entire list. My favorite dough high
IQ point guard, you know, I mean, too smart for
his own good. One two titles with the Lakers an Celtics.
Still still sounds odd to say out loud, but when
(21:30):
we used to have those conversations the top ten our
best point guards in this era, I always would say
Rondo just because the assist impact, these type of things,
and just true point guards. I still, you know, because
he reminds me of an old school point guard like
how I played, So I was kind of personally just
attacheding to the gravitating of style of play versus actual
(21:51):
you know who who's actually career wise better, you know
what I mean. So Rondo definitely deserves a nod. I
don't know if everybody would agree that he's one of
the best, I mean, in that top five, but personally
he's always in the top of my list when I
edge out Chris Paul and the Darren Williams of the
world and Derrick Roses and those type of things, just
because of what he was asked to be done for
(22:14):
those teams, you know what I mean. And we watched
him play with the Kings and the Mavericks and you
know these other teams. But if he actually had a
road where he had to be a Damian Lillard, who
does Rondo become? You know what I mean? Like, I
don't think Rondo just sways off. He's overly competitive. Obviously
didn't shoot the ball that well, but I think he's
still impactful and knows how to score and be effective
(22:35):
and defend. You know, he's just that smart, you know
what I mean? And he makes others around him better.
So that's why I just get that. That means a
lot to me more than kind of points. But points
do matter because you got to score the win.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I love Rondo, man, I've talked about it on this spot.
He's the one who and when we were in Sacramento,
he showed me how to watch film, like breaking it down,
really really running the show on the floor being a coach.
And that's one of the reasons probably coaches he played for,
but it has with him because he was really a
floid gent him. He took ownership of what.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
He's and the things that they've done.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
He wasn't relying on the coaching staff to teach him
the game, to prepare him was. He was willing to
do it himself. So when he watched all that film
and you had a different game plan or something. He
didn't think it was gonna work. He was gonna change
it because he's out there on the floor and you
gotta respect that. And then the other reason, I know
first hand you talk about making players better. My first
year in Sacramento, I'm trying to find my legs. He
(23:32):
was out there getting shots like he was. He could,
he could get his game going, but he knew where
the ball needed to go. He knew how to get
me my shots in my spots. He knew I like
coming off to my right hand, to my right hand
to shoot the ball, so he would manipulate the offense
to get me the ball coming off the right way
so I can so I can do my thing. Like
that's that's that's kind of a lost art in this league.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, I think that's the most underrated thing. I mean,
trying to get your you know, because like if you
make shots look good, you know what I'm saying. For one,
and then secondly, I can actually challenge you because you
respect me enough that yo. We it's not it's not
self esteem, Like, hey, I'm approaching his team first, Okay, Seth,
I know you, Like, I'm watching enough film that I
(24:15):
Loki can point out and call out some of the
stuff that you're not doing and say, all right, if
you do this and make an adjustment, now we locking step.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
The crazy thing, I'm like the eleven tenth eleven man
on the team at the time, and he worrying about
how I'm how he gonna get me off in a game.
I'm like, yeah, he's different. Here a real point is
that here, a real, true, traditional point.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And that's what my fight was not saying that these
other guys weren't. They're leaned upon on their team as
different things. But I just know that Arondo, like him
and Chris Parr are obsessive. They're not control freaks, but
they are to an extent of like, I'm trying to
literally dictate how this game goes, you know what I mean,
(24:57):
If the defender move, if he wiggles nos a little bit,
me and Doctor make this our connection and you go
back door.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That's why it's hilarious. Those two are so similar, but
they they don't like each other. Yeah, because they're so similar,
it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
They if one thinks they're better than the other, you
know what I mean. So it's just kind of funny
because like, all right, I won title.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I would pay to be in a room with those
two talking hoops though.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
The real breakdown, they're gonna break, They're gonna all the
holes in the game. That's what they would make great coaches.
But they also be a pain to play for because
of what they demand, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, the gift is that curse as far as basketball knowledge,
that that competitiveness, their edge, they know the game so
well and having to relay that and rely on somebody
else to put it in the action. Yeah, that's how
I feel.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Michael Jordan as an owner too, I feel like it's
just so like a competitiveness is not transferable, you know
what I'm saying. Like it's certain things that it's not transferable.
And it's like, oh, Mike, listen, Nah, he might have
seen something in you, but that part ain't transferable, he believe.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, when you drafting in time, you can't evaluate that part.
You gotta know, you gotta figure it out on the
fly if they haven't or not.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And it's also putting you with a guy that you
never played with hoping that they do this and this
and that, and he ain't looking at the factors. That's
why he and that clip slapping my league monk, because
he's just like, come on, bro, like, hey, if I
hold this is how I'm coming, you know what I mean.
Obviously I can't do it no more. But like it's
killing me because I believe in you more than you
believe in yourself at this particular moment, and you you
(26:41):
cheat it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So and I think I want to see it because
I think Rondo and CP said he not going coach, but.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Coach Pierre eighth grade right down the street from me
right now playing varsity. I don't know if they won
the championship, but he's in Kentucky right now playing bar
in eighth grade and he was in the playoffs and
he was cook. I think he had twenty five in
eighth grade on seniors.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So getting to it.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
He getting to it, and now I can't wait, you
know what I mean. He's similar to J. J.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Crawford.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Like J J. Crawford right now considered the best freshman.
But I like that the coaches, you know, former players,
is right there locking step with their kids. But you
know that's a that's another one I want to see
and see respectfully. CP two is out there hooping as well,
so you know, doing his things. He's gonna he gonna
play college too. John Wall blur a blur. One of
(27:31):
the fastest with the ball without the ball, like John
is one of the ones exciting, brought that new energy,
you know what I mean, when you just didn't think
anything could get better after Derrick Rose. John Wall is
just one of those household names. Took a franchise like
the Washington Wizards. You know, even though they was dealing
with the Gilbert Arena stuff, was able to take you know,
(27:52):
take reins and do things his way. Him and Brad
build did something special you know in Washington and they
were respected as such. You know what I mean. I
would love to see John's career going a little bit different.
But for the you know, him being the number one pick,
five time All Star, I can't complain. I can't complain.
He showed up and he did his thing.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Bro John lived up to the bill as a number
one pick, like box off things. I think they get
a bad rap for some of the injuries late in there,
and they're running Washington. But when they were on the
floor together, him and Brad, they were a perennial playoff team,
like they they got after and in John, I mean
even I remember from him in high school and in
(28:35):
North Carolina, just a showtime, just getting to an athletics speed,
but also another one of those more on the side
of a true point guard round he was, he was,
he was concerned. I mean, obviously he could score. He's
getting to the rim if you if you put one
person in front of him, But he was concerned about
getting his guys shots. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
He wanted it. He wanted to pass first. And I mean, god,
(28:59):
that size, speed, athleticism, he was a nightmare and transitioned
down down, downhill and uh and the left hand was
underrated left hands. Thinking about him, he was the only
ductor with his left I mean just getting downhill. Right
handed guy who loved to get to his left is
always tough to guard. And he was one of the ones.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
He carried hisself like he was five or ten people
forget he's six six fours with that speed like that,
that that ain't heard of, you know what I mean.
I remember the first time I met John, I was
looking him up and down, and I'm just like, I
thought you was like six one sixth two. You a
big guard, you know what I mean? For that pace?
You know what I mean because his rookie year, he
(29:42):
came around us in LA and he was working out
and I just can't sizing him up. And I'm just
you a true six four, you know what I mean. Like,
and I think that was just throwing me off at
the at the speed he played, and not that taller
guys don't have speed, but yeah, he's a blurk him
and Russ them them dudes, man.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And what I love about this list, all these guys
would name it like they truly love basketball. They love
the game down John know everything about who even for
he been like that in college, high school, like he
knows all the hoopers in the country, high school, college, NBA.
He watches it all like and he I think that's
why these guys like for General's point guards, that's who
(30:25):
they are. They're basketball junkies like hoopeads. And that's I related,
because I mean, I love the game like they do.
So these guys, like I just I just love this topic,
love these names, love these guys who love the game
and get back to it.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah. Absolutely, next guy you mentioned earlier injury, you know,
uh cut his career third year in Chicago, youngest MVP
of all time, you know what I mean, still managed
to you know, he reminded me of a Green Hill
and the longevities play. Still managed to, you know, get
some extra years out of it, you know what I mean?
In Minnesota. You had fifty playing for coach Thibodeau in
(31:00):
New York and just was able to you know, the
Detroit years as well. D Rose resilient, man, real resilient,
really really resilient, but just just man like a great story.
You know how much pressure it is to get drafted
in your hometown and you know, perform night in, night
out at a high level. The only person I really
(31:22):
know that I can relate to is Lebron, you know
what I mean, given number one, that that's so young
and to be effective and to come in at twenty
one and just just really really really really really do
his thing. Man. So you know, as one as a
d ROS and a bullsh fan bro like, I wanted
so much more. But I'm also appreciative of the lightning
(31:44):
captured in the bottle for those times like I won't
take it away, you know what I mean. Like we
talk about Joe Kim, Noah's the Luau Dangs, respectfully, they're
all a part of that makeup of that Baby Bulls team.
That was a franchise over shadowed by Michael Jordan. And
he gave hope. That's why his numbers in the rafters,
you know what I mean for a short spending time,
what he gave to that city.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, the rose Man, this is peak, the peak of
all peaks. Like this is that argument peak longevity. I mean,
he had the streets on fire, had the NBA on fire.
We thought he was going to be one of the
best to ever do it coming out the gates the
way he did it, Like I said, just the most athletic,
being a point guard playing above the rim, challenging seven
(32:26):
for this at the room, being the most athletic on
the floor, the quickest, the fastest. It was musty TV
at the time. And you think he's gonna be in
the Hall of Fame. Obviously we know, we know we
want him in there. He's everybody wants him in.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
The hall gets in because of basketball. Hall of Fame.
I think if it was just cut short on NBA,
I think it would be a tougher argument just to
just to honor the MVP alone, you know what I mean.
But I think basketball wise, he's going to get in,
you know what I mean, because yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
He and if anybody's could playing them about de Rose
getting in the Hall of Fame, you're a corn ball.
Yeah that straight up.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
You fight it, you're fighting it and in some real hate.
But I think I think he gets in, you know
what I mean. He's he's the second greatest bull of
all time outside of you know, from a from a
driving the bus situation. No disrespect for Scottie Pippen, but
I just think that having to have that responsibility on
your own, d Rose is the one that only could
And there's plenty of guys that came over to Chicago
(33:26):
and try to do that thing. Oh and loss j
Shasta Jar. He would be the first MVP to not
make the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, we can't let that happen.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
You can't let that happen our watch.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah you said, you said, maybe the second greatest second
that I got up the third I got put Scottie
over him as the greatest, but in the city of Chicago,
he might be number one, Like, nah, the best.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
No, I see that convers I've seen that conversation and
it's still mj just because yeah, I think homegrown, Yes,
like cool whatever, but people love winning, and still to
this day, people from Chicago still love Mike. You know
what I'm saying, Like if Mike and Derek Rose walked in,
everybody running the mic like respectfully, but if you had
(34:12):
to say Chicago born players, it's d Rose. You know
what I'm saying. But Mike, I'd like you put it
that way.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
If d Rose and Mike walk in the gym, yeah, yeah,
because you.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Know what I mean, like respect to d Rose, like,
well he did ain't easy, but it's just somebody not
from there to do what they did multiple three peats
like he We just did a part with Quick Q
Rich and explained what's it like to be around black
like Michael Finley is an og and Michael Finley wanted
to be around Mike. So could you only imagine the
(34:47):
breakdown of erarors of what Michael Jordan means.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
When the last time, when the last time you think
Mike went to Chicago.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I couldn't tell you what he had been like eight years,
ten years in a minute, Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he
couldn't make it to somebody, I mean the reunion, did
somebody had to Yeah, somebody had to went up in
the rafters. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I think he sent in the video he said, I
can't make Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I can't make it. So I mean, you know, rightfully,
you know, respect to Mike Man, Tony Parker, Parker, Winner, Winner,
That's that's what I think. Well, you know, I mean,
obviously he gets a slap on the wrist because he
played in the system and things of that nature. But
I still think that he earned his KEYP you know,
playing within seventeen to five respectfully with the Spurs, the
(35:38):
Charlotte happened, Yes, Finals MVP. Like again, he's super impactful
to this team. A lot of people say that, you know,
he's a selfish guard, but I disagree. I think in
a way he played to the top of the line,
you know what I mean, Three time All Star, three
time All NBA respectfully, you know what I mean, Like
he's a prime quarterback, you know what I mean. You
(35:59):
put him in the rights, he gonna deliver. He's not
gonna get there and kind of you know, not not
figure it out, man, but definitely one of the ones.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
He one of those guys you come into the league
you can't wait for that matchup because you want to see,
like how he does what he does because on TV,
I don't think he gets the respect he he deserves.
As far as how good he actually was.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
His game wasn't sexy enough, you know what I'm saying,
like European, he had no signature shoe. You know, he
playing on a team that ain't really lovable, you know
what i mean. And you got thinking about the Spurs
beat a lot of teams that everybody else wanted the
Spurs to beat, you know what i mean, like everybody
like oh man, Lebron, the Cavs, Oh no, the Lakers
(36:42):
in the way of the Lakers, you know what I'm saying,
Like when they won, it was kind of like again
they always win or they getting away because they played it.
Playing the game right was almost a bad quote to say,
as if everybody didn't play the game right, you know
what i mean, Like, oh the Spurs too fundamental, Yeah,
we don't want to watch that. So he's a victim
of that. Unfortunately, because they played the game in as system,
(37:06):
but give him.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
They think about him and the whole Spurs organization. They
were cool with being the hill, like they were cool
with people not liking them. If we win, that's all
we want. We don't need, we don't need the spotlight,
we don't need all the extra curriculous. We're trying to
go out there and win. He was one of the heads.
That's him and Tim Dungl. The had a snake boring
like you said, might be boring to watch, boring, but
(37:27):
they played to the system, didn't try to do too much.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
The Spurs Hockey Assists exists because of that. You know,
the extra past, extra pass, extra pass, extra past. I
don't know why we hated it, but I love it now.
I love it now. I love seeing you know, it's
beautiful basketball when they're moving the ball.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Like that, Like, yeah, it wouldn't know what they didn't
have the highlights because they didn't have the highlights.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But also maybe my eyes are aging with the game
of how how the beauty of basketball versus like highlight culture,
and then kind of getting into the space of all right, well,
why why why isn't it wasn't this way or that way,
you know what I mean, because like I definitely wanted
to see dunks and things of that nature. And now
I'm looking at you know.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Why we were in the era. We were in the
era of the sports Center top ten or whatever, top
five or whatever, and the hockey ist, the swing swing
hockey assist. Everybody touched it. Corner three. It's not making
the top five, not today now we I mean, you
get all the types of hotlights, you get the crossovers,
the dunks, but you also get the smart play, the
(38:31):
missus now you get, you get, you get, you get
the defense, all that and there was only so many,
so much time to see. And the Spurs was moving
the ball. They weren't trying to they weren't trying to
make sports Center. They were trying to win. That's why
you gotta respect. That's why they got the banners. And
(38:51):
Tony Park got his Finals MVP and he's selling off
into the sunset.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah. Absolutely honorable mention. Mike Conley pros Pro time All Defensive,
one time All Star Effective of Lord General and Jeff
T shouts to Jeff T twelfth and scoring a month's point.
Guards to this era and uh, you know, just a
solid throughout, you know what I mean. And he has
seventh most assists in this era and twelfth scoring, so
(39:17):
you know what I mean. He did his work, man,
and he you know, had had had a good run
in Atlanta as well. So Honorabile mentioned nod to Jeff
in his career during this era. We're gonna take a
quick break, but when we come back, we're gonna get
our top five point guards to the twenty teams. All right,
(39:47):
we backed. I'm gonna kick things off, man, you know,
with the top five, and I just got to I
gotta start things off man. Number five, I'm gonna go
with the youngest MVP, t row The Roe's gotta be
in there for me. I know, winning is a huge
criteria for me longevity as well. But I couldnot have
(40:09):
a list without you know, uh d Rose on this list.
At four, I'm gonna have to go with Ki Hit
one of the greatest shots you know, in CAP's history,
but still playing and super effective and one of my
favorite people to watch. At three, I gotta go with
uh Russell Westbrook. No, actually, dang, I'm I'm this is tough.
(40:31):
Somebody gonna get cuts hard. It's hard, right, now gonna
make some decisions today. I'm gonna still go and Rush.
I'm still gonna go with Rush. I'm gonna keep Russ
at three, man, you know what that means.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Somebody got to get left off.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
He already got left off. And then at two I'm
gonna go with c P three and one, I'm going
with Steph Dame miss miss my top five unfortunately, you
know what I mean, and respected Dame bro, but I
went with what I went with it man, And and again,
this is is definitely interchangeable. So I'm curious to hear
(41:04):
your argument. He'd probably be on yours. It's one of
your one of your teammates and guys.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
He's definitely on my list.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
But it's tough because listen here, everybody can't go.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
This was changed in into the era of the point guards,
where yep, when you were in the league every night
it's like, oh we got this guy tonight, we got
Kyle Lowry tonight, you wake up tomorrow, we got Steph,
got John Walker. Like it's names every night at the
point guard position. So it's some real This is my
top five right here, Kyrie, I got number five, Okay,
(41:37):
I got Russ for got Dame Dollar number three, three
CP and Steph number one. Wow Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Wow Dame and three over MVP winners, Like oh, I mean, listen,
I respect it. I respect it. It's hard for me.
This one episode that really stressed me out because like
I love Damian Lillard and that wasn't easy, Like that
(42:11):
was not easy. I just had to leave him off mine,
like I gotta.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I got a different respect for him because I was
with him, and that's what you got on firsthand. I
saw his work, I saw his his leadership, Like how
good of a teammate, Like he ain't run from it.
He didn't blame if we lost, he ain't blame nobody.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, he checked all the all the boxes leadership and
everything when you really go, you know what I mean?
And rightfully, Kyrie probably shouldn't have been on my list,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Like I'm saying, Kyrie might have hit the he might
be one of the most talented, might have hit the
biggest shot in NBA history. And I can't be mad
if here in your top five because it's so.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Many Yeah, yeah, this is one that I really want
the listeners to chime in because it's not I don't
think it's a right or wrong answer. But I just
think that it's just tough, like how you personally feel,
how you you know.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
It's what you like about the game.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
You like about the game, and it's just all these
guys I really like, man, Like this is this one,
this one right here. Contract.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
I wouldn't be if somebody put Rondo, if you put
Rondo in your top five, I wouldn't. I mean, I would.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Argue, but I didn't. Huh.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
It's not a guarantee. Yeah, it's not like you're not
crazy if you're in there.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh, I'm tripping. I left Rondo. I just thought about that.
Dang I did all that caping and left my dog out.
But it's just it's just it's there.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Man.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
It's one of them ones. Man, this is this is
probably our toughest episode because it's so interchangeable. You can
make so many cases. You can read on paper like
your case is you watch Dame do the work. I
can't say that I had firsthand experience. You've been in
the foxhole with him to be like, all right, you
know what he deserves, you know what I mean? Like
(44:01):
this is tough, man, It's really tough man. We're gonna
We're gonna take a quick break. Man, I hate to
leave us on a cliffhanger like this, but we take
a quick break. We're gonna come back and do born
in the wrong era and technically in this era, so
we might have.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
To go backwards.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I'm interested to see who can play in the
nineties on this born in the wrong era? We got
(44:37):
some break point guards. We just had not even a
heated but a high intense top five conversation that is
going to peak interest on the internet. I'm curious to
hear this, but that which player was born in the
wrong era for you that can actually play in the
(44:57):
nineteen nineties right now?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, going back, I'm gonna go, uh, I mean actually
go Russ just because of the physicality. Physicality, Yeah, I
mean I think he would. He would probably knowing him,
he'll love to be in the hand checking era where he.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Could put hand three nah.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, yeah he could. I mean he could. He's living
at fifteen eighteen foot if you if you want to
step back and.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Letting have that, okay, see put me a range.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, yeah, like he just type of guy. He probably
want to go back and playing that more more physical
error where you can, where you can get testy and
get a couple of texts and flagrants. To me, yes,
that's the kind of Yeah. Russ West for the for
the born in the wrong era.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I'm I'm not mad at that choice. I'm going to
take the safer rout and go Chris Paul. I feel
like Chris Paul would fit. I. Q's there, he's gonna get,
he's gonna he's gonna be. I don't know if he's
gonna win. Looks like a modern day to John Stockton.
To me, you know what I'm saying, smart, physical, don't
don't back down. The fan steel high IQ gonna make
(46:05):
his counterpart better, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
That's what we didn't talk about enough when we were
going through the defensive side of the bar and him
he guarded, he guarded, He was always guardened.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Guys that's foots taller than him. He he he don't
back down at all, you know what I mean. He
studying enough to be and he headlining the bump. He
looking for all this matchups. He ain't putting no small
for it on nobody. He ain't putting no two guard
on nobody. He wants the head up match up, he
gonna tell you move, I got it, so that that
definitely should have been, you know, a playing on on
(46:40):
his legitimacy as a top five guy. But yeah, man,
Chris Paul, I'm with it, man. He reminds me of
one of those nineties point guards that ran the old
got the points, got the assist, you know, and just
respected by his teammates and and and his piers, you
know what I mean. And again, similar to what he's
(47:02):
dealing with, he dealt with through his career. He's in
the mic area. He probably don't win one, you know
what I mean. If he ain't playing with Mikey and
the mic era, so he ain't the water cut off,
he probably ain't seeing one. But you know he'll get
to the hall respectful with the numbers, you know what
I'm saying, points, steals, assists. He ain't gonna do his thing, man, man,
But this has been up. This is right up our
(47:23):
alley with both point guards and you know, just just
just having fun with it in this conversation and respect
for the peers that that really put on for these positions,
especially in this decade. Yeah, I could talk twenty Ten's
all day, just because the affinity and love for these
players and what they offer, and I think the goalpost
moves on on certain things, you know what I mean,
(47:44):
Who guarded each other, who can shoot? Who could be interchangeable?
You know what I mean? If you strip this teammate
from him, can they still rise to the top of
the occasion. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (47:55):
They played for what kind of.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
You know what I mean? So so many things that
can be mixed up in this thing. So you know
that's another thing. Shouts to Peter. Peter mentioned James Harden
could potentially be in this conversation as well. He could.
You know, he's a little uh. He kind of transitioned
later in his career.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Started off he was like a two guard for half
and the point guard for half.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Shouted Jabbari. Jabari mentioned that he played eight people oh
woll in this era. He played eight years of eight
years of the ten as a shooting guard, so he
would be eliminated to this and then transition into the
twenty twenties.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
That's sleeping night. I sleep a night because we ain't
talk about him.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Yeah, yeah, you are right, you know what I mean.
You didn't you didn't miss a beat on that respect
to the to the producers keeping us in line and
honest with the facts. Man, but this has been a
dope episode. Dot. Where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (48:49):
As Doc Curry s d O, T, C, U, R
R Y everywhere all platforms, holl let me.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
You can find me at Trey at the Goat Pod.
I can't wait for you guys to hear this. We
want to hear all the feedback. We want all the smoke.
You know what I mean, respectfully, who did we leave off?
Who should have been hired? And who ride for your guys,
you know what I mean, do what you need to do.
This was a great one and also the wrap of
season one. Check us out season two. We got better guests,
(49:19):
we got better topics. We can't wait to talk to
you guys. For Seth Curry, for Trevon Edwards and the
rest of the crew. Go go. This has been a
Unanimous Media original.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Goat was produced by iHeart.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Podcasts and Unanimous Media. It was hosted by Me, Travon Edwards,
and Seth Curry. Executive produced by Stephen Curry and Eric Payton.
Co executive producer Klenna Maria Cutton. The executive producers at
iHeart Podcasts are Sean Titon and Jason English. This series
was produced by Derek Jennings and Peter Kutcher, co producer
(50:00):
Kurt Read. Original music by Jesse Woodard. Special thanks to
Stephen Curry and Will Pearson. Goat is a production of
Unanimous Media and iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Steph's been a point guard his whole his whole life.
I think he'll tell you this and the same my
dad will tell you this all along in high school,
med school, my dad would tell him shoot the ball more,
you need to score more. He was a point guard
growing up his whole life. He wanted to pass, He
want to facility.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome back to another episode of Greatest of their Era?
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Doc Tray?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
What's good?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Another episode? Another week?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Another episode, another week.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, let's put this topic right here, right up my alley.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I was gonna say, you're in this now. You're in
this now, so you got a lot to speak on
on this. You know, some of my some of my
favorite type of basketball players are on this list, and
it caused a huge debate, but you know, you got
a chance to speak on it in first hand. So
I'm curious to see what's it like guarding these players
(00:53):
and their experience and mutual respect.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Man.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And today we're talking about the greatest point guards to
the twenty tens. You know, we're currently in the twenty twenties,
but you started your career in the twenty tens, and
you've got a chance to face off with this guy
all your life, Your brother Steph Curry, you know what
I mean, changed the game the way he was played
full stop of course, but also Chef Curry Man, ridiculous,
(01:17):
ridiculous stat line, four rings, twelve All Star selections, two
scoring titles. But you're the better shooter as of last
year three point percentage man. You know that's a fun debate.
What's it like guarding your brother in practice now as
a member of the Warriors, but also playing against each
other since day one?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I mean we've been battling obviously growing up. Our whole
life's just one on one matchups in the backyard, practice
in high school, get into it, really competitive in every way.
So I think those battles molded us into really who
we are today. That's mean you always got somebody to
measure up with side by side growing up. I'm always
chasing him, trying to be better, trying to work as hard,
(01:57):
and I mean, I mean, it's nobody better really to
model my work ethic and game work at work ethic
and game over throughout my career. So I think before
we get into this, this this PG of the twenty
tenth topic, we need to, like, what's your what's your
your your idea on like what is a PG? Because
in this era, point guards are kind of transition. Like
(02:20):
a lot of these guards guys are gonna talk about
it's not the traditional point guard anymore. Scores. You got
to be able to score, to play the positions like
Rogrono's kind of getting phased out a little bit. Guys
like that who trying to facilitate and not really think
about their own offense. Do you consider like what do
you have? You have your thoughts changed? It all what
you consider a point guard. And when you're making your
(02:42):
list of top five point guards of this era.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I'm glad you say that the criteria has definitely changed,
because you know, if we're talking about right when your
brother got drafted and we talk about you know, him
succeeding in certain certain eras and you say, oh, man,
well he don't. It's a this ain't up or he's
not you know, bringing the ball up and these things,
and the latter changes so much, you know what I
(03:06):
mean to an extent, and you look at points per game,
you look at impact, you look at certain things and
what's being asked of. There were point guards back in
the day, in the nineties that scored, you know what
I mean, It wasn't just a he averaged four points
a game and he averaged fifteen assists or you know,
the assist to turnover ratio. It's always been something that we've
kind of moved in the help of our the sake
(03:28):
of our argument, you know what I mean, Like he
acts like this person better exactly. So it gets a
little tricky, and I think the beauty of this we
have a mix of so many players, you know what
I mean that on certain certain teams they're actually be
done doing certain you know, certain things, because how can
Chris Paul be a point guy. But Chris Paul could
average eighteen points a game, you know what I'm saying.
(03:50):
He's still shooting the ball. He's still a top option
in this thing. But they'll say, oh, but he's looking
for as assists when you go look at STEP's assists
and Steph have an assist game too, if you really
are paying attention to that, I think it's just the
way of the style of play. And point guards are
like a hybrid now, you know what I mean, Like
you're going to get a lot of shots depending on
(04:12):
your roster. If you don't cool. And most of the time,
the best player is the point guard nowadays, So I
think that's the difference of what it used to be.
I think the best of the best play the point guard,
and they have the ball in their hands eighty something
percent of the time of the game, and they're making
the best decisions. So whether it's shooting or getting into
the next person, that's a point guard. But I don't
(04:34):
think it puts a blemish on the greatest all time conversation,
you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I think you use your common sense, man, you know
what a point I think we know what a point
guard is. Yes, Like I think the criteria change when
people start putting Steph Curry in the top five point guards,
argument Matt measuring up with Isaiah with Magic, They're like, oh,
but he not a real point guard. Just to make
that point, right, But it's always been different.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
But that also wouldn't be the case if we had
to talk about Isaiah because Isaiah is similar. Isaiah scores
the ball a lot more than he passes.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, but I mean he did score the ball, but
he's different than the way he orchestraated the offense like
he was coming out absolutely really point people around and
if he needed to score, he needed to score. But
Steph's been a point guard his whole his whole life.
I think he'll tell you this and the same my
dad will tell you this all along in high school,
middle school, my dad would tellhim shoot the ball more,
(05:32):
you need to score more. He was a point guard
growing up his whole life. He wanted to pass, he
wanted to facilitate. He could always dribble, but he could
score too. And then I think as he got older
and realized his best skill was shooting and scoring the ball,
coaches brought that out even more. And then obviously Steve
Kirk came in and ran him off the ball, and
that's when everybody, oh, now he's he's a shooting guard.
Draymond's the point guard, Draymond. Draymond's a point for guilty.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I'm guilty of that argument. Like I said, I'm guilty,
but I think it was just to stroke my own
ego in a debate. You get what I'm saying, Like,
if I'm probably your point, it helps my point a
lot in certain things, You know what I mean. And
as we're going to talk about one of my personal
favorite point guards on this list, you would see why
(06:16):
why I'm kind of pushing that agenda to to knock
Steph down and not him be at the top of
my list. So I'm glad that you stayed at that.
Before we even run down this list, you mentioned Steph already.
Let's talk about Chris Paul, another North Carolina guy that
you guys grew up watching but also instrumental going to
his camps and you know, just leaning on his you know,
(06:38):
advice and and and his path. You know what I mean,
as a professional, you know what I mean. And he
has been dubbed the point gud for so long. You
know what I mean when you think about those those
debates in the two thousands and what a point guard
is supposed to be looking like. You know what I mean,
like those debates. Man, just looking at Chris Paul and
his high IQ and the way he carried himself, you
(07:00):
know what I mean, for the twenty years that he's played.
So let me know your thoughts of gardening the CP
or being on the court and what's his effectiveness on
the floor.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Cep probably the smartest player I've been around, played against
all that I was able to pick his brain growing
up in college obviously being the North Carolina guy. And
he's he's like the quintessential floor leader of floor general
coach on the floor. And that's what I think when
you're having an argument, that's what people then the traditionalist
(07:30):
view is a point guard right running the team. He's
looking to get his guys going first. But then also
he can close games with his scoring. And I mean
he's a winner. To me, he's a winner. He he
hadn't won a champion, he didn't win a championship. But
if he was on a team, you were in contention,
like you had a chance, you were making the playoffs.
You had a chance and caught some bad breaks. But
(07:52):
I mean, anytime I'm talking point guards, and if you
don't bring up CP, you you're fooling yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Man.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Like he's his foot printers and all the guys on
his list, his footprint is on. He's taught them the game.
He's taught him some since of the game. He's he's
helped him out in their careers. He's competed against them,
he's pushed them to be better. Like when guys like
Steph was coming in Kyrie Russ damn Autum, when they
were coming into the league, like it or not, they
(08:18):
measured themselves up against Chris Paul. When they feel like
they got to that level, they feel like they arrived
right and they were working to get better than him
and pass him as a player. So that's the ultimate
respect to CP right there.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Also, my respect just changes when he's going to the
worst team sometimes right the back end of his career,
he's going to the worst teams and willing them to
the playoffs, and so what I mean, But that's a
testament to himself of like he could complain and ripe
that whole year and say, ah, man, I should you know, like, hey,
this is where you know he embraced every time he
(08:52):
went to you know, a young team and and and
got the best out of his team. You know what
I mean. So kudos to Chris Paul. Man I wouldn't
necessarily not call him a winner because he's one in
certain situations that has elevated younger you younger people that
didn't know how to win and taught them how to win,
which allowed them to be effective. Okay, see, probably doesn't
(09:13):
get over the hump Shay gildersh Alexander doesn't know how
to figure out these type of you know, situations in
the NBA Finals. If he doesn't, if he isn't played
under the leadership of Chris Paul, you know what I mean.
And I just think those are the things that are
unsung in certain journeys, you know what I mean, Like
you just go, you go down the line, you know
what I mean. And I'm pretty sure like as a
(09:33):
competitor or as a teammate or whatever, you know, when
you when you zoom out, Chris Paul is one of
the greatest point guards.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
This game has seen, no question, no question at a uh.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
This other point guard plays in the end the hardest
I've ever seen, plays like he's not tired still to
this day. Prime Russell Westwood is one of those ones
I love to call him and d Rose Royu and
Ken you know one one MVP definitely kind of self built,
you know what I mean. Russ was drafted as a
(10:06):
defender from UCLA turn point guard and just kind of
learned on the job, but just has been so effective,
you know what I mean. And it's a live by Russ,
die by Russ. And in these nineteen seasons, man, he's
been one of those dudes you know what I mean
as a nine time All Star, three time assist Champ
twenty twenty twenty, which is something that you just don't
no matter how you look at it, whether you feel
(10:28):
like it's forced or not, it's still hard to do.
It's hard to do on video games. So the idea
that this dude has averaged more than a trip on
double more than one season when you really think about it,
Like I remember that conversation. You were a bit younger
at the time, but they were talking about who would
be a who would be the first player to do
this outside of Oscar Robertson, And I was like, Lebron,
(10:51):
I was for sure it was gonna be Lebron. I
was like, Yo, Cleveland's playing him at the one. He
can rebound, he loves to pass, he can go easily
get ten points, like a no brainer. And it was
harder to do than you possibly he could think of,
you know what I mean, regardless if you mapped it
out or not, because you know, you got big Man
trying to rebound to hit their quota. You got certain
people that's not making shots when you pass it to him,
(11:11):
and yeah, you're trying to get your points. Maybe an
off night. Russell Rushbrook did that thing entire season plus,
So the idea of yay, he's gonna be a Hall
of Famer, But like the intensity, And when you talk
about Russ, you hear nothing but great things as his
teammates and the organizations that he played for, you know
what I mean. He's one of those dudes, man that
(11:32):
you just love, you love to have on your team.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, two things when I think about Russ. One like,
when do you see a point guard be the most
athletic and most physical person on the floor that's doing
his prom. That's what it was, and that's that's rare,
Like maybe d Rose and his prom was the most athletic,
but it wasn't the most physical like Russ that he
was that guy on the floor. He got like centers
(11:55):
of shining away from contact on him. You would see
it all the time. And two, he was gonna put
your feet to the fire every time. Like when you
before you played against Russ, you had to get your
year of sleep. You had to be on full alert
because no matter he having a great game, having one
of his worst games, he wasn't gonna stop. He was
gonna come at you full speed. Gonna keep shooting, keep
(12:15):
pushing the pace, like he's gonna he's gonna test where
you at that game. And I mean that's that's what
you respect, the respect about him. And we going to
this next guy, Dame Lillard who I played with it
in twenty nineteen. We played him the Thunder in the
first round and I got a first hand witness those
two going at it for five games, and that was
(12:36):
the highest competition I've ever seen in my life. Like
being a part of the series. Yeah, like there was
it was heat. You see, you thought they you really
thought they hate each other personally the way they were
going at a game after game. Obviously it was just competition, Yeah,
competition respect, Yeah, but it was it was high level competition.
And you see two of the best point guards going
at every night. It was it was I was a
(12:58):
privileged to be a part of the witness it, and
I think when when you left that series, you got
a greater respect for both of those guys, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean I'm seeing these these nasty agendas
about you know, it's damn a Hall of Famer, and
it's like, what are we talking about? Like, what are
we talking about this dude is, if not one of
the greatest Blazers to ever lay some up, but just
also just his impact on how you know, he's a winner,
one of the you know, outside of your brother, one
(13:28):
of the best three point shooters, you know what I
mean this game and scene like Bros. Is he really
liked that for real? You know what I mean? And
especially great out of Weaverer state. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, great teammate, a hooper and well as to his legacy,
to be honest, is he's he's synonymous with that Blazers organization,
even like even though he left for a year or two,
going back rekindling that that relationship with the Blazers, like that,
even though you didn't win, sticking it out with that
organization and round with him. When the career is over,
(14:00):
it's gonna be something to be said about that. Like
he like I said, he's another guy who I feel
like is a winner. He just ran in the bus
offs like he keept running his steaf you know what
I'm saying. He ran into different teams who were just better.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
His version of Jordan cut a lot of water off man,
you know what I'm saying. Like we really think about that.
It's just there there are all those there are all
those brick wall moments, man, where you're just like, you
know enough was it wasn't good enough, you know what
I mean, Like I give him my all, and some teams,
you know what I mean, you're just not gonna get
over the hump man and Dame you know, fortunately, you
know like I said, the Warriors teams was you, I
(14:33):
mean you you were part of their team when y'all
had to face them, you know, as far as y'all
possibly could man at the at the highest peak.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
We had a great team with the wars was just
a little bit better. They were just a little bit better.
But Dame, I mean when it was the think about
Dame two, when he ain't shy away from the spotlight
of all, when the games was the biggest, he was
gonna put it on his shoulders. He won't gonna shy away.
He's gonna You're gonna win it or lose it for us,
you know what I'm saying. In that first series, the
boy coming in with the stats thirty three six and four,
(15:03):
Rush twenty three, eleven and nine with PG on his team,
and PG was hooping two. So I mean, like, that's
two of the best point guards you ever see matched
up in a Round one series. That was like peak
playoff basketball to me.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean I might have to go
back and watch it, honestly because it just was. It
just was that intense and you know, just high intensity
hoops at his best man that can't be recreated sometimes.
This next player, outside of Mark Price, I think he's
one of the greatest point guards to come out of
Caves history. Kyrie Irvin Hit one of the biggest shots
(15:37):
in the franchise, you know history, but also just you know,
nine time All Star, you know, champion, three time All NBA,
twenty twelve Rookie the Year, twenty fourteen All Star, MVP,
also Olympic and you know, FEBA Gold medals. Kyrie is
one of those guys that just I love watching him play,
you know what I mean, he can you know, add
(15:58):
six two, you can play the two well. But he's
just one of those like it almost feels like you're
being rocked to sleep when you watching him play dark
because it's just like the camera's moving with him and
you know, he has a specific style. It's probably one
of the prettiest games on this list. You know what
I mean, because it's just you know, however you feel
you look up that thirty gonna look nice, that fifty
(16:18):
gonna look nice, even a twenty ball gonna look nice.
You know what I mean, make it look you know
what I mean. He's one of those players that every
time he plays, I'm turning the TV on and epectfully,
I gotta watch it. No question, man, I played with him.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I played with him a three different dude, Brooklyn Dallas,
I mean every time, like it, don't get old washing
him play just like you said, the grace the skill level,
and he don't got he don't predetermine nothing like his
skill level was so high he take with the defense
give him. He one of the best shooters I've ever
been around, which is people don't talk about enough. Obviously
(16:56):
talk about his ball handling, his finishing, But if you
back up off them, he gonna make eight nine threes.
Like he can shoot the heck out of the ball
from every part of the floor.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And you think that he make the game harder for
himself sometimes, like I think eight he had to have
a fun, difficult situation sometimes like all right, I'm kind
of bored with this, so I'm gonna change his easy
lay up into something that just you know, I've been
working on and try it out, and I'm just like,
you know, you could make great easier.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
That's what the great ones do. They challenge themselves and
you get a little board out there, you try to
have fun, testing limit, see what you can do. I
think Steph is the same way. You know what I'm saying.
He's doing some crazy passes, doing some unnecessary moves, shooting
it from two steps further than he has to. Kyrie.
You know what I'm saying, Why did you you you
had a water layup on the right side, Why you
(17:46):
had to switch it to the left and dipsy do
underneath the others? Yeah, it was no need for that,
no need to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
But he's on the show, show him and you're getting
the price of admission. That's why they love him in Dallas,
all right. Other one champion probably gonna be the greatest
raptor of all time. They call it the grot. Kyle Lowry.
Six straight All Star appearances, top ten VP finished in
twenty sixteen, a title in twenty nineteen. You know, definitely
(18:13):
one of those guys Kyle played twenty years. I'll watch
his career go up and down and you know, finally
finding a home in Toronto and actually, you know, turning
it up, you know what I mean. He I remember
even the last two three seasons he was one of
the salt after guys. Like if he gets brought out,
you go and get Kyle Lowry and he's gonna change
it and you probably win the championship. And not just
a respect to his impact as you know, a guard
(18:37):
and you know, being able to join a company and
be a part of this group.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, you gotta. I mean what I respect about Kyle's
career is he he grinded it out. Like when his
first five six years you thought he'd probably be an
average player, maybe a role guy, borderline starter. Then he
just turned it up and became an All Star. And
you have that debate, is he a Hall of Fame
or is he not? I think he's gonna get in personally.
(19:05):
But this is the typical argument of who's better the
guy who had the longer run of sustained success or
the highest peak. You know what I'm saying. That's that's
the debate, Like who was better at that prom we
got a d Rose who had a who had a
great stress for three four years, or Mike who had
Mike or not Mike but Mike, I mean kindy, but
(19:27):
Kyle Lowry, who, like I said, a longer career of
sustained really good. Like what's what's your thoughts on the
peak versus longevity argument when you're making your top fives
or ranking your top point guards.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I'm going with longevity because you have to do it
for a said amount of time, you know what I mean.
Like everybody can have one good season, everybody can have
two good seasons, you know what I mean. And injuries
happen and that's part of the game, but like that's
not that's not one of those things of like okay,
well we're just gonna push them through anyway, you know
what I mean. Like that's one way. One too many
stories like that in this league. But I do think
he gets in as a six straight All Star appearance
(20:02):
and then also Olympic gold medal, and he's gonna be
mister Raptor. Like you know, Vince Carter added all to
this thing. But obviously Vince car had to do his
thing to get there. The you know, the t Max
and everybody that's been there, even Kawhi played a huge
role in it. But when you think of longevity and
the impact what he's done with the franchise, Kyle is
gonna get in.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, you see, you see the response he got every
time he goes back to to Toronto with Philly, they're
arguing that's still his franchise. They're arguing it to this day.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
He's missed like he's going to have a front office
job if you want it, Like he's mister Raptor over there,
like regardless of what you think. You know what I mean,
if you wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
To people underrating and when the era of people switching
teams and going here, going there, being associated with one
franchise and then calling it your home, it's it's it
means something, man, especially when you're done. And also if
you want.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
To have a home you want or another country like
exactly you brought a Canadian title.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
He up there with the hockey players above the yep North. Yes,
when you really.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Think about that, that that's that's a whole different conversation
when you think about it, all right. Rajion Rondeau, my favorite,
my favorite off this entire list. My favorite dough high
IQ point guard, you know, I mean, too smart for
his own good. One two titles with the Lakers an Celtics.
Still still sounds odd to say out loud, but when
(21:30):
we used to have those conversations the top ten our
best point guards in this era, I always would say
Rondo just because the assist impact, these type of things,
and just true point guards. I still, you know, because
he reminds me of an old school point guard like
how I played, So I was kind of personally just
attacheding to the gravitating of style of play versus actual
(21:51):
you know who who's actually career wise better, you know
what I mean. So Rondo definitely deserves a nod. I
don't know if everybody would agree that he's one of
the best, I mean, in that top five, but personally
he's always in the top of my list when I
edge out Chris Paul and the Darren Williams of the
world and Derrick Roses and those type of things, just
because of what he was asked to be done for
(22:14):
those teams, you know what I mean. And we watched
him play with the Kings and the Mavericks and you
know these other teams. But if he actually had a
road where he had to be a Damian Lillard, who
does Rondo become? You know what I mean? Like, I
don't think Rondo just sways off. He's overly competitive. Obviously
didn't shoot the ball that well, but I think he's
still impactful and knows how to score and be effective
(22:35):
and defend. You know, he's just that smart, you know
what I mean? And he makes others around him better.
So that's why I just get that. That means a
lot to me more than kind of points. But points
do matter because you got to score the win.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I love Rondo, man, I've talked about it on this spot.
He's the one who and when we were in Sacramento,
he showed me how to watch film, like breaking it down,
really really running the show on the floor being a coach.
And that's one of the reasons probably coaches he played for,
but it has with him because he was really a
floid gent him. He took ownership of what.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
He's and the things that they've done.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
He wasn't relying on the coaching staff to teach him
the game, to prepare him was. He was willing to
do it himself. So when he watched all that film
and you had a different game plan or something. He
didn't think it was gonna work. He was gonna change
it because he's out there on the floor and you
gotta respect that. And then the other reason, I know
first hand you talk about making players better. My first
year in Sacramento, I'm trying to find my legs. He
(23:32):
was out there getting shots like he was. He could,
he could get his game going, but he knew where
the ball needed to go. He knew how to get
me my shots in my spots. He knew I like
coming off to my right hand, to my right hand
to shoot the ball, so he would manipulate the offense
to get me the ball coming off the right way
so I can so I can do my thing. Like
that's that's that's kind of a lost art in this league.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, I think that's the most underrated thing. I mean,
trying to get your you know, because like if you
make shots look good, you know what I'm saying. For one,
and then secondly, I can actually challenge you because you
respect me enough that yo. We it's not it's not
self esteem, Like, hey, I'm approaching his team first, Okay, Seth,
I know you, Like, I'm watching enough film that I
(24:15):
Loki can point out and call out some of the
stuff that you're not doing and say, all right, if
you do this and make an adjustment, now we locking step.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
The crazy thing, I'm like the eleven tenth eleven man
on the team at the time, and he worrying about
how I'm how he gonna get me off in a game.
I'm like, yeah, he's different. Here a real point is
that here, a real, true, traditional point.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And that's what my fight was not saying that these
other guys weren't. They're leaned upon on their team as
different things. But I just know that Arondo, like him
and Chris Parr are obsessive. They're not control freaks, but
they are to an extent of like, I'm trying to
literally dictate how this game goes, you know what I mean,
(24:57):
If the defender move, if he wiggles nos a little bit,
me and Doctor make this our connection and you go
back door.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That's why it's hilarious. Those two are so similar, but
they they don't like each other. Yeah, because they're so similar,
it's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
They if one thinks they're better than the other, you
know what I mean. So it's just kind of funny
because like, all right, I won title.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I would pay to be in a room with those
two talking hoops though.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
The real breakdown, they're gonna break, They're gonna all the
holes in the game. That's what they would make great coaches.
But they also be a pain to play for because
of what they demand, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, the gift is that curse as far as basketball knowledge,
that that competitiveness, their edge, they know the game so
well and having to relay that and rely on somebody
else to put it in the action. Yeah, that's how
I feel.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Michael Jordan as an owner too, I feel like it's
just so like a competitiveness is not transferable, you know
what I'm saying. Like it's certain things that it's not transferable.
And it's like, oh, Mike, listen, Nah, he might have
seen something in you, but that part ain't transferable, he believe.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, when you drafting in time, you can't evaluate that part.
You gotta know, you gotta figure it out on the
fly if they haven't or not.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And it's also putting you with a guy that you
never played with hoping that they do this and this
and that, and he ain't looking at the factors. That's
why he and that clip slapping my league monk, because
he's just like, come on, bro, like, hey, if I
hold this is how I'm coming, you know what I mean.
Obviously I can't do it no more. But like it's
killing me because I believe in you more than you
believe in yourself at this particular moment, and you you
(26:41):
cheat it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So and I think I want to see it because
I think Rondo and CP said he not going coach, but.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Coach Pierre eighth grade right down the street from me
right now playing varsity. I don't know if they won
the championship, but he's in Kentucky right now playing bar
in eighth grade and he was in the playoffs and
he was cook. I think he had twenty five in
eighth grade on seniors.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So getting to it.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
He getting to it, and now I can't wait, you
know what I mean. He's similar to J. J.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Crawford.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Like J J. Crawford right now considered the best freshman.
But I like that the coaches, you know, former players,
is right there locking step with their kids. But you
know that's a that's another one I want to see
and see respectfully. CP two is out there hooping as well,
so you know, doing his things. He's gonna he gonna
play college too. John Wall blur a blur. One of
(27:31):
the fastest with the ball without the ball, like John
is one of the ones exciting, brought that new energy,
you know what I mean, when you just didn't think
anything could get better after Derrick Rose. John Wall is
just one of those household names. Took a franchise like
the Washington Wizards. You know, even though they was dealing
with the Gilbert Arena stuff, was able to take you know,
(27:52):
take reins and do things his way. Him and Brad
build did something special you know in Washington and they
were respected as such. You know what I mean. I
would love to see John's career going a little bit different.
But for the you know, him being the number one pick,
five time All Star, I can't complain. I can't complain.
He showed up and he did his thing.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Bro John lived up to the bill as a number
one pick, like box off things. I think they get
a bad rap for some of the injuries late in there,
and they're running Washington. But when they were on the
floor together, him and Brad, they were a perennial playoff team,
like they they got after and in John, I mean
even I remember from him in high school and in
(28:35):
North Carolina, just a showtime, just getting to an athletics speed,
but also another one of those more on the side
of a true point guard round he was, he was,
he was concerned. I mean, obviously he could score. He's
getting to the rim if you if you put one
person in front of him, But he was concerned about
getting his guys shots. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
He wanted it. He wanted to pass first. And I mean, god,
(28:59):
that size, speed, athleticism, he was a nightmare and transitioned
down down, downhill and uh and the left hand was
underrated left hands. Thinking about him, he was the only
ductor with his left I mean just getting downhill. Right
handed guy who loved to get to his left is
always tough to guard. And he was one of the ones.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
He carried hisself like he was five or ten people
forget he's six six fours with that speed like that,
that that ain't heard of, you know what I mean.
I remember the first time I met John, I was
looking him up and down, and I'm just like, I
thought you was like six one sixth two. You a
big guard, you know what I mean? For that pace?
You know what I mean because his rookie year, he
(29:42):
came around us in LA and he was working out
and I just can't sizing him up. And I'm just
you a true six four, you know what I mean. Like,
and I think that was just throwing me off at
the at the speed he played, and not that taller
guys don't have speed, but yeah, he's a blurk him
and Russ them them dudes, man.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And what I love about this list, all these guys
would name it like they truly love basketball. They love
the game down John know everything about who even for
he been like that in college, high school, like he
knows all the hoopers in the country, high school, college, NBA.
He watches it all like and he I think that's
why these guys like for General's point guards, that's who
(30:25):
they are. They're basketball junkies like hoopeads. And that's I related,
because I mean, I love the game like they do.
So these guys, like I just I just love this topic,
love these names, love these guys who love the game
and get back to it.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah. Absolutely, next guy you mentioned earlier injury, you know,
uh cut his career third year in Chicago, youngest MVP
of all time, you know what I mean, still managed
to you know, he reminded me of a Green Hill
and the longevities play. Still managed to, you know, get
some extra years out of it, you know what I mean?
In Minnesota. You had fifty playing for coach Thibodeau in
(31:00):
New York and just was able to you know, the
Detroit years as well. D Rose resilient, man, real resilient,
really really resilient, but just just man like a great story.
You know how much pressure it is to get drafted
in your hometown and you know, perform night in, night
out at a high level. The only person I really
(31:22):
know that I can relate to is Lebron, you know
what I mean, given number one, that that's so young
and to be effective and to come in at twenty
one and just just really really really really really do
his thing. Man. So you know, as one as a
d ROS and a bullsh fan bro like, I wanted
so much more. But I'm also appreciative of the lightning
(31:44):
captured in the bottle for those times like I won't
take it away, you know what I mean. Like we
talk about Joe Kim, Noah's the Luau Dangs, respectfully, they're
all a part of that makeup of that Baby Bulls team.
That was a franchise over shadowed by Michael Jordan. And
he gave hope. That's why his numbers in the rafters,
you know what I mean for a short spending time,
what he gave to that city.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, the rose Man, this is peak, the peak of
all peaks. Like this is that argument peak longevity. I mean,
he had the streets on fire, had the NBA on fire.
We thought he was going to be one of the
best to ever do it coming out the gates the
way he did it, Like I said, just the most athletic,
being a point guard playing above the rim, challenging seven
(32:26):
for this at the room, being the most athletic on
the floor, the quickest, the fastest. It was musty TV
at the time. And you think he's gonna be in
the Hall of Fame. Obviously we know, we know we
want him in there. He's everybody wants him in.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
The hall gets in because of basketball. Hall of Fame.
I think if it was just cut short on NBA,
I think it would be a tougher argument just to
just to honor the MVP alone, you know what I mean.
But I think basketball wise, he's going to get in,
you know what I mean, because yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
He and if anybody's could playing them about de Rose
getting in the Hall of Fame, you're a corn ball.
Yeah that straight up.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
You fight it, you're fighting it and in some real hate.
But I think I think he gets in, you know
what I mean. He's he's the second greatest bull of
all time outside of you know, from a from a
driving the bus situation. No disrespect for Scottie Pippen, but
I just think that having to have that responsibility on
your own, d Rose is the one that only could
And there's plenty of guys that came over to Chicago
(33:26):
and try to do that thing. Oh and loss j
Shasta Jar. He would be the first MVP to not
make the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, we can't let that happen.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
You can't let that happen our watch.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah you said, you said, maybe the second greatest second
that I got up the third I got put Scottie
over him as the greatest, but in the city of Chicago,
he might be number one, Like, nah, the best.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
No, I see that convers I've seen that conversation and
it's still mj just because yeah, I think homegrown, Yes,
like cool whatever, but people love winning, and still to
this day, people from Chicago still love Mike. You know
what I'm saying, Like if Mike and Derek Rose walked in,
everybody running the mic like respectfully, but if you had
(34:12):
to say Chicago born players, it's d Rose. You know
what I'm saying. But Mike, I'd like you put it
that way.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
If d Rose and Mike walk in the gym, yeah, yeah,
because you.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Know what I mean, like respect to d Rose, like,
well he did ain't easy, but it's just somebody not
from there to do what they did multiple three peats
like he We just did a part with Quick Q
Rich and explained what's it like to be around black
like Michael Finley is an og and Michael Finley wanted
to be around Mike. So could you only imagine the
(34:47):
breakdown of erarors of what Michael Jordan means.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
When the last time, when the last time you think
Mike went to Chicago.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I couldn't tell you what he had been like eight years,
ten years in a minute, Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he
couldn't make it to somebody, I mean the reunion, did
somebody had to Yeah, somebody had to went up in
the rafters. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I think he sent in the video he said, I
can't make Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I can't make it. So I mean, you know, rightfully,
you know, respect to Mike Man, Tony Parker, Parker, Winner, Winner,
That's that's what I think. Well, you know, I mean,
obviously he gets a slap on the wrist because he
played in the system and things of that nature. But
I still think that he earned his KEYP you know,
playing within seventeen to five respectfully with the Spurs, the
(35:38):
Charlotte happened, Yes, Finals MVP. Like again, he's super impactful
to this team. A lot of people say that, you know,
he's a selfish guard, but I disagree. I think in
a way he played to the top of the line,
you know what I mean, Three time All Star, three
time All NBA respectfully, you know what I mean, Like
he's a prime quarterback, you know what I mean. You
(35:59):
put him in the rights, he gonna deliver. He's not
gonna get there and kind of you know, not not
figure it out, man, but definitely one of the ones.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
He one of those guys you come into the league
you can't wait for that matchup because you want to see,
like how he does what he does because on TV,
I don't think he gets the respect he he deserves.
As far as how good he actually was.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
His game wasn't sexy enough, you know what I'm saying,
like European, he had no signature shoe. You know, he
playing on a team that ain't really lovable, you know
what i mean. And you got thinking about the Spurs
beat a lot of teams that everybody else wanted the
Spurs to beat, you know what i mean, like everybody
like oh man, Lebron, the Cavs, Oh no, the Lakers
(36:42):
in the way of the Lakers, you know what I'm saying,
Like when they won, it was kind of like again
they always win or they getting away because they played it.
Playing the game right was almost a bad quote to say,
as if everybody didn't play the game right, you know
what i mean, Like, oh the Spurs too fundamental, Yeah,
we don't want to watch that. So he's a victim
of that. Unfortunately, because they played the game in as system,
(37:06):
but give him.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
They think about him and the whole Spurs organization. They
were cool with being the hill, like they were cool
with people not liking them. If we win, that's all
we want. We don't need, we don't need the spotlight,
we don't need all the extra curriculous. We're trying to
go out there and win. He was one of the heads.
That's him and Tim Dungl. The had a snake boring
like you said, might be boring to watch, boring, but
(37:27):
they played to the system, didn't try to do too much.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
The Spurs Hockey Assists exists because of that. You know,
the extra past, extra pass, extra pass, extra past. I
don't know why we hated it, but I love it now.
I love it now. I love seeing you know, it's
beautiful basketball when they're moving the ball.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Like that, Like, yeah, it wouldn't know what they didn't
have the highlights because they didn't have the highlights.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But also maybe my eyes are aging with the game
of how how the beauty of basketball versus like highlight culture,
and then kind of getting into the space of all right, well,
why why why isn't it wasn't this way or that way,
you know what I mean, because like I definitely wanted
to see dunks and things of that nature. And now
I'm looking at you know.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Why we were in the era. We were in the
era of the sports Center top ten or whatever, top
five or whatever, and the hockey ist, the swing swing
hockey assist. Everybody touched it. Corner three. It's not making
the top five, not today now we I mean, you
get all the types of hotlights, you get the crossovers,
the dunks, but you also get the smart play, the
(38:31):
missus now you get, you get, you get, you get
the defense, all that and there was only so many,
so much time to see. And the Spurs was moving
the ball. They weren't trying to they weren't trying to
make sports Center. They were trying to win. That's why
you gotta respect. That's why they got the banners. And
(38:51):
Tony Park got his Finals MVP and he's selling off
into the sunset.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah. Absolutely honorable mention. Mike Conley pros Pro time All Defensive,
one time All Star Effective of Lord General and Jeff
T shouts to Jeff T twelfth and scoring a month's point.
Guards to this era and uh, you know, just a
solid throughout, you know what I mean. And he has
seventh most assists in this era and twelfth scoring, so
(39:17):
you know what I mean. He did his work, man,
and he you know, had had had a good run
in Atlanta as well. So Honorabile mentioned nod to Jeff
in his career during this era. We're gonna take a
quick break, but when we come back, we're gonna get
our top five point guards to the twenty teams. All right,
(39:47):
we backed. I'm gonna kick things off, man, you know,
with the top five, and I just got to I
gotta start things off man. Number five, I'm gonna go
with the youngest MVP, t row The Roe's gotta be
in there for me. I know, winning is a huge
criteria for me longevity as well. But I couldnot have
(40:09):
a list without you know, uh d Rose on this list.
At four, I'm gonna have to go with Ki Hit
one of the greatest shots you know, in CAP's history,
but still playing and super effective and one of my
favorite people to watch. At three, I gotta go with
uh Russell Westbrook. No, actually, dang, I'm I'm this is tough.
(40:31):
Somebody gonna get cuts hard. It's hard, right, now gonna
make some decisions today. I'm gonna still go and Rush.
I'm still gonna go with Rush. I'm gonna keep Russ
at three, man, you know what that means.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Somebody got to get left off.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
He already got left off. And then at two I'm
gonna go with c P three and one, I'm going
with Steph Dame miss miss my top five unfortunately, you
know what I mean, and respected Dame bro, but I
went with what I went with it man, And and again,
this is is definitely interchangeable. So I'm curious to hear
(41:04):
your argument. He'd probably be on yours. It's one of
your one of your teammates and guys.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
He's definitely on my list.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
But it's tough because listen here, everybody can't go.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
This was changed in into the era of the point guards,
where yep, when you were in the league every night
it's like, oh we got this guy tonight, we got
Kyle Lowry tonight, you wake up tomorrow, we got Steph,
got John Walker. Like it's names every night at the
point guard position. So it's some real This is my
top five right here, Kyrie, I got number five, Okay,
(41:37):
I got Russ for got Dame Dollar number three, three
CP and Steph number one. Wow Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Wow Dame and three over MVP winners, Like oh, I mean, listen,
I respect it. I respect it. It's hard for me.
This one episode that really stressed me out because like
I love Damian Lillard and that wasn't easy, Like that
(42:11):
was not easy. I just had to leave him off mine,
like I gotta.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I got a different respect for him because I was
with him, and that's what you got on firsthand. I
saw his work, I saw his his leadership, Like how
good of a teammate, Like he ain't run from it.
He didn't blame if we lost, he ain't blame nobody.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, he checked all the all the boxes leadership and
everything when you really go, you know what I mean?
And rightfully, Kyrie probably shouldn't have been on my list,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Like I'm saying, Kyrie might have hit the he might
be one of the most talented, might have hit the
biggest shot in NBA history. And I can't be mad
if here in your top five because it's so.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Many Yeah, yeah, this is one that I really want
the listeners to chime in because it's not I don't
think it's a right or wrong answer. But I just
think that it's just tough, like how you personally feel,
how you you know.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
It's what you like about the game.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
You like about the game, and it's just all these
guys I really like, man, Like this is this one,
this one right here. Contract.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
I wouldn't be if somebody put Rondo, if you put
Rondo in your top five, I wouldn't. I mean, I would.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Argue, but I didn't. Huh.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
It's not a guarantee. Yeah, it's not like you're not
crazy if you're in there.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh, I'm tripping. I left Rondo. I just thought about that.
Dang I did all that caping and left my dog out.
But it's just it's just it's there.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Man.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
It's one of them ones. Man, this is this is
probably our toughest episode because it's so interchangeable. You can
make so many cases. You can read on paper like
your case is you watch Dame do the work. I
can't say that I had firsthand experience. You've been in
the foxhole with him to be like, all right, you
know what he deserves, you know what I mean? Like
(44:01):
this is tough, man, It's really tough man. We're gonna
We're gonna take a quick break. Man, I hate to
leave us on a cliffhanger like this, but we take
a quick break. We're gonna come back and do born
in the wrong era and technically in this era, so
we might have.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
To go backwards.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I'm interested to see who can play in the
nineties on this born in the wrong era? We got
(44:37):
some break point guards. We just had not even a
heated but a high intense top five conversation that is
going to peak interest on the internet. I'm curious to
hear this, but that which player was born in the
wrong era for you that can actually play in the
(44:57):
nineteen nineties right now?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, going back, I'm gonna go, uh, I mean actually
go Russ just because of the physicality. Physicality, Yeah, I
mean I think he would. He would probably knowing him,
he'll love to be in the hand checking era where he.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Could put hand three nah.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, yeah he could. I mean he could. He's living
at fifteen eighteen foot if you if you want to
step back and.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Letting have that, okay, see put me a range.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, yeah, like he just type of guy. He probably
want to go back and playing that more more physical
error where you can, where you can get testy and
get a couple of texts and flagrants. To me, yes,
that's the kind of Yeah. Russ West for the for
the born in the wrong era.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I'm I'm not mad at that choice. I'm going to
take the safer rout and go Chris Paul. I feel
like Chris Paul would fit. I. Q's there, he's gonna get,
he's gonna he's gonna be. I don't know if he's
gonna win. Looks like a modern day to John Stockton.
To me, you know what I'm saying, smart, physical, don't
don't back down. The fan steel high IQ gonna make
(46:05):
his counterpart better, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
That's what we didn't talk about enough when we were
going through the defensive side of the bar and him
he guarded, he guarded, He was always guardened.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Guys that's foots taller than him. He he he don't
back down at all, you know what I mean. He
studying enough to be and he headlining the bump. He
looking for all this matchups. He ain't putting no small
for it on nobody. He ain't putting no two guard
on nobody. He wants the head up match up, he
gonna tell you move, I got it, so that that
definitely should have been, you know, a playing on on
(46:40):
his legitimacy as a top five guy. But yeah, man,
Chris Paul, I'm with it, man. He reminds me of
one of those nineties point guards that ran the old
got the points, got the assist, you know, and just
respected by his teammates and and and his piers, you
know what I mean. And again, similar to what he's
(47:02):
dealing with, he dealt with through his career. He's in
the mic area. He probably don't win one, you know
what I mean. If he ain't playing with Mikey and
the mic era, so he ain't the water cut off,
he probably ain't seeing one. But you know he'll get
to the hall respectful with the numbers, you know what
I'm saying, points, steals, assists. He ain't gonna do his thing, man, man,
But this has been up. This is right up our
(47:23):
alley with both point guards and you know, just just
just having fun with it in this conversation and respect
for the peers that that really put on for these positions,
especially in this decade. Yeah, I could talk twenty Ten's
all day, just because the affinity and love for these
players and what they offer, and I think the goalpost
moves on on certain things, you know what I mean,
(47:44):
Who guarded each other, who can shoot? Who could be interchangeable?
You know what I mean? If you strip this teammate
from him, can they still rise to the top of
the occasion. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (47:55):
They played for what kind of.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
You know what I mean? So so many things that
can be mixed up in this thing. So you know
that's another thing. Shouts to Peter. Peter mentioned James Harden
could potentially be in this conversation as well. He could.
You know, he's a little uh. He kind of transitioned
later in his career.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Started off he was like a two guard for half
and the point guard for half.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Shouted Jabbari. Jabari mentioned that he played eight people oh
woll in this era. He played eight years of eight
years of the ten as a shooting guard, so he
would be eliminated to this and then transition into the
twenty twenties.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
That's sleeping night. I sleep a night because we ain't
talk about him.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Yeah, yeah, you are right, you know what I mean.
You didn't you didn't miss a beat on that respect
to the to the producers keeping us in line and
honest with the facts. Man, but this has been a
dope episode. Dot. Where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (48:49):
As Doc Curry s d O, T, C, U, R
R Y everywhere all platforms, holl let me.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
You can find me at Trey at the Goat Pod.
I can't wait for you guys to hear this. We
want to hear all the feedback. We want all the smoke.
You know what I mean, respectfully, who did we leave off?
Who should have been hired? And who ride for your guys,
you know what I mean, do what you need to do.
This was a great one and also the wrap of
season one. Check us out season two. We got better guests,
(49:19):
we got better topics. We can't wait to talk to
you guys. For Seth Curry, for Trevon Edwards and the
rest of the crew. Go go. This has been a
Unanimous Media original.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Goat was produced by iHeart.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Podcasts and Unanimous Media. It was hosted by Me, Travon Edwards,
and Seth Curry. Executive produced by Stephen Curry and Eric Payton.
Co executive producer Klenna Maria Cutton. The executive producers at
iHeart Podcasts are Sean Titon and Jason English. This series
was produced by Derek Jennings and Peter Kutcher, co producer
(50:00):
Kurt Read. Original music by Jesse Woodard. Special thanks to
Stephen Curry and Will Pearson. Goat is a production of
Unanimous Media and iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
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