April 2, 2026 • 53 mins
Seth and Tray keep the March Madness theme rolling, this time spotlighting the biggest tournament heroes of the 2000s who went on to have the greatest NBA careers.
They take a trip back through the NCAA Tournament to revisit standout names like Mateen Cleaves, Shane Battier, Mario Chalmers, and Emeka Okafor — along with tournament stars who became NBA mainstays and legends, including Joakim Noah and Carmelo Anthony.
Seth also takes a moment to revisit a personal memory, looking back at when CJ McCollum lit up his Duke squad in the 2012 tournament with a performance they won’t soon forget.
And don’t miss the end of the episode, where Seth and Tray reveal their very surprising Top 5 lists.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We win the championship, we about to go lottery. We
might take a hit next year. Our draft stack might
take a hit next year if we come back and
fall off or don't win again. And they all came
back and won again. That's legendary right there.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome back to another episode of Greatest of their eras
going on, What up? What up?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Man?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We got the Pune one today. You know, we're in
a good spirit of March madness, you know, talking about
some hoops, some college hoops, and but you know on
this show we keep it pro. But man, this is
definitely your phone right here. You know, we're doing the
greatest March Madness. Heroes turned pro in the year two thousands.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, sir, it's a good time of the year, man,
March maddens. If you're a basketball hey, you love it.
You got NBA rolling close it down the year and
then the March Madness. Obviously you never know what's gonna happen.
And today some of these some of these players made
it name for themselves going into the draft, and somebody
after you after you make a big run in the
(01:04):
tournament and then your your stock and rise, and everybody's
on the lookout for you at the next level. So
some interesting stories we're gonna get into.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Now. You played in the tournament. Uh you know who
was one person that wasn't on your radar that went crazy?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I mean in the tournament. I remember my my sophomore year,
we ended up losing to Arizona and they had what
was a buddy name from Arizona who was the number
two pick, Derek Williams. Yeah, I mean he was he
was hooping all year, but we really elevated his draft
stock because they beat us in the suite in the
I think it was the Sweet sixteen, and we had
(01:44):
a stack stacked team with Kyrie coming back and we
were probably the favorite set into the tournament, and he
just went off on us. So that elevated his stock.
And that's one of the guys like you knew he
was good, but he had a game of his life
against Yes that night.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And I think that's the thing, you know what I mean.
Like obviously we joke with CJ about you know that
comes up every March, right and when.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You had especially when come from a school like Lee
High or Yeah, we're talking about seeing McCullum, how they
upset us in the first round.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And then you think about like these teams in the
current one with high point, you know what I mean,
certain guys just just doing their thing, man, and they
and they changed their their trajectory of their career, you
know what I mean, they probably would have had just
a decent year and now you potentially getting some calls
from some front offices. Man, March is like the one
time you really can display it all, you know what
(02:36):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Like literal CJ one is interesting because I mean I
remember heading into that term. It was the first round.
We were playing le High and we went to scout
Report and coaches, you know, they try to hype up
every game, coaches trying to take it seriously and get
us ready. So all year we're like, we played with
a team, we know it's supposed to be. We're better
than they're like, Oh, this guy, he's killing his in
his league play. He's averaging twenty twenty five thirty in
(02:59):
league whatever it is. So that was the scout Ford
coming into that game, and they had a good point
guard and they had CJ. Who was who was the
best player in the in that league, and he coaches
hypingh he could play Yep, yeap be ready. He can
he can go and obviously we scout him, took him seriously.
But that loss looks better every year because of CJ McCallum, man,
(03:21):
like every year nobody. We were devastated at the time,
but now you look back on this, like it was
c J McCollum, he was We had a good team.
I mean it was me, Austin Rivers, the plumb Leaves,
like we had a good team. But I mean just
Beyon that was the best player on the floor, Like, no,
you could do. He was ining tough shots.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He's just having to go to league high.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, he's still doing it to this day. He could
have played in any team in the in the country.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah. No, that's real. That's real. I mean that that's
the beauty of March badness. Man. It's just kind of
like and the only thing I dislike about it is
how they make it seem like hot did this guy
slip through the cracks or just didn't get to the school.
And it's just like like sometimes guys just develop over this,
like getting into the program too and just getting better
(04:06):
over the year, especially if like they really break out
their junior year or something. It's not like, oh, they
missed out on like recruiting, Like guys are literally getting
better and improving their game.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's a good guy you. That's a good point because
I mean I kind of relay that to myself, even
staph in some sense, like a lot of people say
the schools whoever missed out on recruiting. That's obviously we
were hooping in high school. We were always good, but
we were undersized, and for me personally, like I wasn't.
I speak for myself, like I don't think I was.
I was a good high school player. I was. I mean,
(04:38):
do you think you're a dupe ready? Yet I was not.
I wasn't even close, Like I was not. I know,
I wasn't good enough to play in the ACC at
the my junior senior year in high school. So I
just I made a big jump my freshman year and
then I was ready. So it's not like I mean
they should maybe could have gave me a chance, but yeah,
there was no chance.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I was ready. Would have been there, probably would have sat,
and then you would have been frustrated and you wouldn't
have developed the way you want to get the reps
and everything that they're needed and I think that's the
that's the erasure sometimes in the development of a player, right,
just saying oh man, yeah, and we get these stories
every time because it's like even when a god transfers
(05:19):
to another program and he gets off, sometimes them systems
aren't for that player. Like they probably not getting the touches.
You know, they're playing half court instead of you know,
open court. Like different things, the different sets, the looks
that they're getting, the confidence that they're being built with. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Man, even mentally they may might not have been ready,
might have the talent, but mentally, like you playing at
a Duke or Carolina or whatever, it is like you
can't you you're not ready for that pressure. Every night
you go to a different school, it's different expectations. You
got the ball every night, so your confidence grows and
you're a better player. It's not like, oh they didn't
play me, because I mean I was good, but that
I didn't get the opportunity. It's just you you might
(05:57):
have got better at a different situation.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, all right, let's let's jump into the show. We're
gonna go straight to Flint, Michigan, Flint Stones Mateen Cleves
uh NCAA. Uh you know, two thousand, two thousands most
outstanding player, you know what I mean? Uh wound up
being a six year VET playing one hundred and sixty
seven games with the Pistons, Kings, Calves, Sonics. People still
(06:21):
to this day talk about that two thousands team. I
just remember them for having the green irises, you know
what I mean, mop they had. I think Charlie Bell
was on that team as well, you know, like they
were they were like, uh, I didn't say Cinderella because
though obviously you know who we is, but like just
really thinking about putting them on the map of like
(06:44):
dang got respect it because I only thought about them
through Magic Johnson like and it was a heat like
those coming out party, yeah, one thousand percent of like
hey he can he can get you to the big dance.
He can you know, he can coach, he can get wins.
And my team was just really like that man commanding
the floor, like who is this guard? If he wasn't
watching them all year, you know what I mean? And
(07:06):
I was. I was, I was like in ninth grade,
so I really wasn't like overly locked in, like being
able to follow through the season. But when it happened,
it was like the greatest run. So like they win,
and he got this like signature look he turns his
hat to the side, he puts his net on his
around his neck, and I'm like, yo, he's going to
kill a league, like because I just didn't know, like
(07:27):
I wasn't watching a game with the eyes I have now,
so I'm just like, oh, he whoever drafts him, like
they're gonna be like, you know, over the top. And
it was kind of crazy, man, but like you know,
he was able to you know, show you know, hope
and and last longer than most guys that usually have
these type of you know, magical runs and stuff like that,
(07:48):
and it just didn't really translate as much. And he
also had hit the injury bug. But it was pretty
cool for to see him play for the Pistons and
stuff like that, and you know, every I feel like
every every guard get they King stint the Kings is
like the rights of pashes, Like you played for the Kings,
like you like, all right, the King's gonna give you
a shot for real. And then you know, like the
(08:10):
other other Calves, the Calves and the Sonics weren't that
good during that those early two thousands, before Lebron, but
Team Cleets also has a great story about watching Lebron
for the first time, you know what I mean, Like
coming in he was with the Calves and he said, oh,
he way better than everybody on his team, and he
probably was the only person on that team that was
(08:32):
not hating on him. Like that was like, you know,
cause Ricky Davis is like, oh, they drafted him to
get me the ball, Like Darrick S. Miles was like
still de Miles didn't say nothing crazy, but he was
just kind of like, I don't know because I came
out of high school too, so it might not be
as easy. This is like, you know, because everybody's still
trying to figure out if it's man, you know, if
he gonna hit a game, gonna translateklets like one workout,
(08:55):
that boy good, like he's seen it. You know. He
probably was just getting his body right to get healthy
and get back on the floor. But he's just was like, yo,
Lebron for the chump was always gonna be who he
was gonna be.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And I was like, I respect that, yeah now, but
I was saying, like this is finny because Mateen Cleves
and that that the Michigan State run to the championship
was my first memory of like college basketball. I was
like nine, ten years old. Yeah, so I remember making
that run and that's when I was I was locked
in the whole way and the teen cle like it
kind of hurt you being this big of a star
(09:27):
and having this role at the next level because you're
such like a household name after the tournament run and
people like the fans and people expect you to be
that in the league and it's a whole different level.
You might, like I said, it might just you were
the man at that at the college level, that was
it was your system. You're a senior, you had that confidence.
You come to the league, you trying to find your way,
(09:49):
but everybody knows you, you know what I'm saying. Everybody
knows who you are. You on the end of the
bench in the NBA maybe and like, oh, we want
to see Mateen Cleves play, but that's not that's not
what they asking ye when you come to the leagues.
Not yet.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
He wasn't drafted. He wasn't drafted to have keys handed
to him, you know what I'm saying, Like franchise.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
When it comes to talent, and like overall, like side
skill whatever he was, he he he did pretty good
to have a six year NBA career, to be honest,
like yeah, and but like I said, his name kind
of outweighed his game at the NBA level. Yeah, but
when it comes to who like he's a basketball, he's
he's smart. You're gonna figure out a way to make
(10:27):
an impact no matter what.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Collegiate, collegiate legend, you know what I mean. Here on out,
he can go get a desk job, he can go
b GM whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
He behind behind the bench in Phoenix right now.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, damn, I don't even know that. That's the Okay,
oh yeah, taking care of that's the state guys shouts
to that, you know what I mean? All Right, Shane Battier,
we just talked about him in the previous episode. You know,
he probably didn't reach the all star level that most
(11:01):
people I don't know. I mean, he was hooping on
both ends of the floor for Duke, like he was
the Swiss Army Knight for them, you know what I mean.
So he was kind of to be honest, he was
to me, he was the same player in college that
he was in the league. It's just it's I mean,
college is less talented overall, so he's a little bit better.
But he never tried to do too much at any level.
(11:23):
Like even in college he was he was you know,
he reminded me of though he was a star, he
was gonna do you know, like like Harrison had a
little bit more playmate, like a little bit more one
on one to his game in college. Yeah. So I'm
just talking about trajectory of star to going into role
to being you know, been in a chip and then
(11:44):
being effective and still getting to those year thirteens, those
year tens, you know, and beyond where you're like, oh man,
you was drafted really high and the upside of it,
most people think you're about to be offensive and you like, nah,
I'm gonna just slide into this three because Andrew Wiggins
would be one of those guys, like certain guys that
just like, you know, they gonna help you win versus
(12:08):
being what the guy get.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Them credits the winner, We'll get them credit. And the
Shane Battier's and the hbs is where like they're smart.
They know they know who they are as players, and
they know that game and they know they know they
they're value. They can have value because they're so versatile
and well rounded as a players, they can have value
and make a lot of money in the league not
being the number one option. So you know what I'm saying,
(12:31):
if you if you can guard the best one of
the best players every night, knockdown shots, and then you
can throw on the ball every once in a while
and have them create some offense for you. But I mean,
Shane is like a solid of NBA career, is one
can ask for like thirteen years on multiple championship teams,
contenders Like, I mean, you can't. It's hard. It's harder
(12:57):
to give them any slighter his NBA careers, college career,
just him as a basketball play in general, He's up there.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, I think. I think the cool thing about some
of these players on the list is that when they're
acquired doing free agency or traded for there's a love
from the fans of the respect of the specialist part
that they add, you know what I mean, Like they
may have been a star. They're a prime example of
if you're coming out of high school and you need
(13:25):
to see the trajectory of how real the NBA is,
you see these players who are like all world. They
won a title for their teams, and then they have
to fit in and they become like specialists for what
they do best. So when you get like yourself, oh
we getting a shooter, We know we getting a shooter
(13:46):
every team, Like, oh, this is the fix for the
championship team. We needed to shooter every time we're getting you.
You know what I'm saying. So like a battier Memphis
trade team, he goes there, he goes to the Miami Heat.
That's the defender they always needed. Now bron can kind
of focus on specific offense. D Wade can focus on offense.
(14:07):
And hey, Sam, Betty, you're gonna guard the best person.
Tied him down.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You know how they say you you hate him, like
you hate this guy unless he's on your team. A
lot of guys get that rep and Shane is that
kind of guy, Like you don't think he's that good
until you watch him every night on your team. Like
how much value he brings? Yeah, And like you said,
when when when you bring yeah? Oh yeah, ultimately at
(14:33):
the respect of everybody in the league, everybody in that
locker room. When he lock when he walks into your
locker room and starts talking the stars is Park like
they listen to him, you know what I'm saying, Yeah,
he got that kind of that kind of cache in
the league and around the the just the basketball whole,
a whole basketball sphere.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
That might be an underrated skill that these guys on
this list possessed, right, So, yeah, if you win on
the collegiate level, you're leaned upon as being the guy.
But you also can take the pressure off a guy
who may be the best scorer or the best quote
(15:11):
unquote player overall, and you can take the leadership off
their hands and lead the locker room because like fans
look at like, if you're the best scorer, you're the
best star, you got to lead too. And it's like, nah,
that's not one of the qualities that's supposed to come
with that too, you know what I mean. You got
to have somebody that can keep it, you know, and
if you're respected. Most of these guys that want at
(15:33):
a top level are absolute pros.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And I mean that's a good point because everybody in
the league watches college basketball and they know and they
know if you win it at the college basketball level,
it's hard to do. You might not be like as
talented come to the league. But you got that you
walk into the NBA and those locker room with some
sense of respect. Like right now we got will Richard
on our team or rookie here Golden State, and he
(15:57):
won the championship last year's he gonna be a Solida player,
not a star, nothing, second round pick. But everybody in
this locker room like, we watched him go through that run,
yes last year to the NCAA championship, and we watched
how he conduct himself when he came into this locker room. Man,
he's not even wrong here. Rook Now, he still got
to do the rookie duties, but we got a sense
of respect for him because he won a championship. Coming
(16:18):
into the league.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
It's just different and the expectation, you know, like, all right,
he knows how to win.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, he a winner.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
You get what I'm saying. So you can look in
the foxhole type situation and say, all right, were down nine,
it's like two minutes and thirty seconds. You believe Draymond,
believe this other player believe And now you're like, hey,
rook you out here on the floor, you're playing really well.
Coach Kurk gonna keep you out here. Let's let's go
(16:47):
in this game.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah. So oft when we won, KERR wasn't scared to
put him out there on the floor even when the
guys were healthy, cause he would play low minutes, but
in big situations with Kurk would throw him out there
because you know, he gonna make the right place. He's
not gonna hurt us. He's a winner, like you said.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, and that's not that value. So you know, I
had to make that point because it was just it
was it was floating right there for me to put
out there, and I was like, that's a good, you know,
thing to point out when when you're scouting or looking
at that. All right, this next player, Wan Dickson, gonna
know who Wan Dixon is. Look him up? Had game
(17:24):
another Most Outstanding Tournament Player two thousand and two, scoring
combo guard undersized average twelve. You know what I'm saying.
Had some productive years in six with the with the Blazers.
Uh put up eleven for the Raptors the second half
of the season, but again undersize. I felt like he
(17:46):
was born in the wrong era. Probably would cook and.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
He came in at he's a he's that typical college
like just star like one of my favorite college guys ever,
six six three, But he's that typical twiner. Like when
back then it was like what position do you play
If you don't play point guard, if you if you're
not big enough to play shooting guard, the guard, two
guards in the league, it's hard for you to stick.
Now it's it's kind of changed, like you can, you can,
(18:11):
you can just be a guard and if you're good enough,
you're good enough.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, he would have easily been a guy that just
would have been scoring like crazy, and it would have
been like, oh, he doing what he do in college,
you know what I mean, But like aking Wan Dixon
to play the one axing Wan Dickson the guard, all
those tall two guards, yeah, you know it can't do that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, And when that that was just the sentiment of
the league back then, like it was you had to
be one of the other. And even when they gave
Steph a little bit issue about it coming out because
I mean, ultimately he can he can play the point.
I mean he's the point guard his whole life. But
he scored so well and then everybody was putting him
in the kind of like that one Dixon type role,
Like what position does he plays? He a Twiners?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
This is he that?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So that's kind of made him slip in the draft
a little bit, like they didn't know if he could
sure play the point guard or not.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, no, I remember it. I never had a question
about if he gonna be an NBA player, But I
just was like, Okay, is this going to fly? You
know what I'm saying, because like the deep three, how
guy's gonna defend him? Cool?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Whatever he can, you know, let that fly unless unless
unless you were a AI, if you're under a certain size,
they didn't feel comfortable playing you off the bar.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, and he didn't also like go to the rack
as much, you know what I mean, as he did
further into it, like them MVP seasons, Like I'm like, oh,
he an underrated finisher, Like he doing backdoor cuts, he
doing all these things. Like but the stuff that he
was getting like basically red flag for he just didn't
(19:47):
get to display as much because the team, the type
of team he had to, you know what I mean,
Like he's still playing with Captain Jack, like he playing with.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Mikey McCoy and they kind of switched the mold eventually
because they feel like they realized how good he was,
but they would throw him in there with other guys
who can handle playing with two smaller guys with point
guards and the game, the league, and they just shifted.
The coaches just shifted in that. Like I said, it
hurt guys like Juan Dixon, Yeah, because they weren't given
the opportunity to to play with another another smaller guard
(20:22):
point or even a bigger point guard who could guard
twos while he could guard the ones.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
This next player car crazy run. He's number one on
all both of our lists, no question, Freshman year one
and nine. You know, Hall of Fame class twenty five,
ten Times All Star twenty thirteen, Scory Chap, NBA seventy
fifth Anniversary team member. I mean, the most decorated dude
(20:48):
on Team USA, Like this is this is this is
one of those things where, you know, even watching Mellow,
I'm pretty sure that was fun for you. You probably
were like a team that was, you know, my freshman
year of college and I'm just like, dude. And the
crazy thing about it, we played against Mellow in high school,
so I got to see it a couple times, like
(21:11):
at okill, like Yo. Okill always pushed people out, you
know what I mean, Like we had like an unwritten,
weird rivalry at Deman. It's like, we match up with Okill,
We're gonna play them. That's gonna be a big game
of the year. It's our like non conference game where
people actually smell the butter, you know what I mean,
in the air because this is this is a big game,
(21:33):
you know, and they're gonna match him up against Tyson
and all these other things. And Mellow is just one
of those dudes. And I don't even think like he
was him and him and this dude Caruth, you know
what I mean, was super nice. But I remember Mello
going to Syracuse and I was just it was him
and Braun, Like Bron's my year, so I'm like Melo's
(21:55):
one year older than us, and I remember just watching like, yo,
what is he gonna do? And him Gary madg Hakeemo work,
you know, like they had an interesting team and like
they played the two three zone. They you know, Mellow
coming out there, jumper, pretty big range, he getting a three,
and it just was like almost mind blowing seeing a
(22:17):
guy like his statue, his size be able to like
move the way he do. He had the braids, his
swag was up, like you just knew. So then when
he got to Denver the Colors, they changed the uniform
scheme for him, like everything was just different.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I got a question about the whole Mellow thing. What
do you what do you think about the the sentiment
Mellow is not a winner because you remember back like
his first his he came into college, won right away.
He was a winner when it got in the league,
him and Bron going neck and next for Rookie of
the Year. They said, oh, LaMelo, I mean Carmelo wins.
You know what I'm saying. Mellow wins, Bron putting up numbers.
(22:55):
But he now he not a win. He not winning.
And then as their careers went along, because never had
a championship level team or whatever and never won a championship,
they're like, oh, he know, he's just a score. He
never winning. The whole conversation about Mellow change, like where
you at on that? Because like I said, early on,
he was. He was the winner of the class, right.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think it's the media fault. I think it's the fans' fault.
I think we did a disservice to Carmelo Anthony in
a way that we gave championship like ring ring, you know,
ring chasing, and that conversation or the table over put
the black cloud over his career right because he went
(23:34):
to the playoffs rookie year right clearly the leading scorer, you.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Know, like that's far. He affected winning right away.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
He affected the franchise. Denver was not a good franchise
before that, you know what I mean, Like they weren't
a destination. It was almost a destination where you're getting
like random guys and playing for the Nuggets. Like Tim
Hardaway played there randomly, Like you're like what, like you
know what I'm saying, Bontigo, come ins, Chauncey Billups, like
a lot of journeymen played for the Nuggets, you know.
(24:07):
So before Melo got there and made it kind of
like this is a cool place to go, it was
just unfortunate because he played in the West. I couldn't
imagine him playing in the East. He probably would fare
out a little bit better. Like you ran into the
Dallases of the world, the Lakers, the Kings, the like
whoever it was you were constantly and then you know,
(24:28):
making it to Western conferce finals, him playing with iverson
fun on paper, not good together, you know what I mean,
Like George Carl also didn't overly invest in them, like oh,
we about to do this, Like he just had no
desire in coaching him.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
He just had to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
It almost was a thorn in the side. But Mello
being able to rack up wins and he had a
chance to join that Miami team, he could have did
it and and changed the whole Like do we talk
about him differently if he joins that team. I kind
of like respected him, Yeah, I respect then, but he
(25:04):
got paid, So that also was like a slap on
the wrist on a situation of like, nah, you took
the money, you didn't care about winning. And I think
that's another discourse that it's kind of strange in the
NBA because it's unfortunate, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But us here ducking the smoke. He's still going out.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
He never did and he played, and he also had
to become a scapegoat. He was out there. He literally
got pushed out the league because of analytics because they
wasn't playing a game that he wanted to play. His
numbers was always there. They considered him selfish. He took
mid range shots that wasn't sexy, which is finally coming back.
But it's unfortunate that how Mellow went.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
The man was in New York, Like he took the money.
He was in New York. He probably thinking, Oh, that
I'm in New York, We're gonna be able to attract
some free agents. They gonna end up putting the team
around me that could compete with them, right, and they did.
Like he took the money in in Milwaukee or whatever was,
it was like, yeah, I mean, you took the money,
You're probably not gonna win. No, nobody's coming to Milwaukee.
(26:08):
It's New York Knicks. Yeah, like we eventually were gonna
have a chance.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
He had two teams that were very potentially good Nick's
tape with Jakid Rashie Wallace, the Vet Team, Junior j R. Smith, Little,
et cetera. Right, they were, Oh, but but those are
still the teams that were still getting over the hump
until they Paul George Roy Hibbert. You know, they ran
into some hitters right in Indiana. So then you get
(26:33):
the twenty sixteen team right where you're like, on paper,
this team could be good the Dereck Rose, the Brandon Jennings,
the Joe Kim Noah who else they have on that team? Uh?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
That was that was They had some names. It was
on paper and that was on paper. It wasn't like
a yeah, but there was. And it was like that
was good And it was like the Knicks was so
bad a year or two before that. It's like us
being a playoff level team. Yeah, you feel like they're contender,
but they not like even now like the Knicks, Knicks
(27:06):
winning a series of two fans are through the roof.
It's like they see that's what the Bartenders exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
The bar. The bar was so low there that that
was success in New York. You get what I'm saying,
Like Mellow come in there, getting traded there and then
getting them back to the playoffs. It was such a
such a drought, right of not being there and playing
in the postseason. Then he leaves such a drought again,
right and Nigga Jalen Brunton, and now they're back, you
(27:35):
know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Like you said a bar solo Mellow, the excitement was
so crazy in New York. Mellow just being there put
up numbers, having playoff contending teams. He probably felt like
he was a championship contender and he was winning championships and.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Mary Stotamarer, he thought like all right, and stat broke
his hand punching thing, you know, being upset. So like
they had Tyson, you know what I mean, Like they
had players, you know what I mean that you think like, oh,
they're gonna get it done, and they just teams are
just the NBA is hard to win. I think certain
teams just make it look easy. That's just that's just
(28:10):
the thing. It is only one team win, man. That's it.
If you if you're blessed with a good team and
you repeat and you make it back to the finals,
or you constantly make that trip and you got one
player like Bron. Again, I don't I don't want to
say like Bron's exceptional, but I would be curious if
(28:31):
the roles were reversed and he played in the West
and he had to go through all that like that
tough like you don't. I would be so curious if
those eight straight final appearances were on the West. It's
not happening because he got to l A and he's
only one one. He's only one one he's running here
(28:52):
older but still I'm just super but I'm just super
curious at twenty five year old bron on the Wests
Dirks of the world playing against.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
The It's not happening, bro, you had the Warriors them, Okay, see,
k the teams were stacked. It's just the odds are
just not in favor and.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Shouts the Carmelo man, you know one of them ones
definitely number one on this list, no question. We don't
even have to you know, that's that's a that's a
blank signing. He starts with number one, all right. A
Mecca Mecca on covers of video games, kind of one
of the weirdest flex three point nine g p A
(29:35):
you know what I mean, Like, yeah, my, my, my boy.
Marcus Williams played with him in Yukon. Let's talk about Mecca, Like, yo.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
You think about that, like the propaganda and the media
push they used to be back in the early two thousands,
Like who cares what the g p A is? Yeah, Kenny, Kenny, Yeah,
he's a good He's a smart dude. Keny, which he
could two.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Thousand national player this year, you know what I'm saying, Like,
you know, played ten years I remember his Bob catch years.
You know, he as fourteen eleven, Like that'll get him
paid now. But again, overall he dealt with some injuries.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Think about how think about how good he was in
college and how Yeah, coming out in the draft, it
was a it was a debate like should we take
the white or do we take a mecca? A mecca
in the horner? And it was like, oh, everybody, Charlotte,
you know, I remember everybody was like, oh, they might
take him, we might get the white. You don't know
what they're gonna do now. It was the White all
along obviously, But the thing is.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
They missed out to man, they tried to put four
year senior versus high school senior.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, I mean, I said, but.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Sorty used to play a part in actually drafting, like
is he going to be okay?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know what I mean for the NBA? And I'm
like that's the white hour, bro, Like now that's that
that evaluation has changed completely talented and if you're younger
it's better. Yeah, But like Charlotte was like, oh, then
Charlotte's like, oh, we got a number two pick. We
can't go wrong even if they take them. If they
take dwhighte A Mecca gonna be just as good. They
(31:12):
take a Mecca Dwight, he might, he might be better.
Like it's him.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Him and Adam Morrison were the two rare non North
Carolina guys coming back to Charlotte because I feel like
they were just drafted anybody that went to u n see,
you know what I mean, Like it was it was foy.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Think about this, bro, They was drafting four years seniors,
just all time great college players. But now today's game,
they don't even look twice at them as being top
five picks at all lottery picks. Like you know, the
god good you.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Are another Bobcat that we're talking about. Sean me same deal,
had a slew of injuries in the NBA, but in
at UNC a god right, just straight hoping, you know
what I mean. And like you think about, oh we
got Sean May and Raymond Felton the same team. It's
got to work the Chimon Street. It's going to just
(32:06):
translate to the.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
NBA, and it's like dog days. It's a different skill
level you gotta have in the league. Man, and those
those Carolina and beyond. I mean he was a star, yeah,
one of them but it might not have been the
best player on his team. Team tweener loaded. I mean
those Carolina teams that was winning loaded, bro, Yeah, felt
(32:29):
mc kant's Marvin Williams. Yeah, Marvin Williams. That team was stacked, bro.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Nor Carolina always had household names though, Like it's just funny,
like and they'll get to the NBA and you're like, man,
he's gonna he gonna do something a little bit, and
I'm just like, all right, you know that was always interesting.
Joe Kim, He's gonna be high on my list, passion
like he is the poster boy of one shining moment,
screaming energy. Two thousand and six Most Offtended Player, two
(33:00):
time All Star, three time All Defensive Player, played for
my Bulls, you know what I mean. Twenty fourteen All
NBA team. But like that Florida team, Corey Brewer, Torri
and Green, you know what I mean, Al Horforal.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, they went back to bath and they actually they
came back. They won that. That's just, like I said,
a rare, like rare foreign.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Time. Let's try it again.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, we win the championship. We about to go lottery.
We might take a hit next year. Our draft stack
might take a hit next year if we come back
and and fall off or don't win again, and they
all came back and won again. That's legendary right now.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I think that. I think the wildest part I felt
bad for Tory and Green because if it was nil, Yeah,
he's the he out of here, He out of here,
like out of here with.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
That though, Man, we don't want that.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So like you looking in the situation of like, yeah,
they legends for the rest of their lives, you know
what I mean. But it's just so crazy to think about,
like how crazy that team was. Like them dudes were defensive, offensive,
like putting a SmackDown block three half. Florida had them
cracking out.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
There, like and Joe came to everything he did in college.
He brought it right to the league the same player,
and I love, I love, I love the monster. Monster
on the defensive end, competitive as hell, would talk crazy
than anybody, like going toe to toe with bron in
the media like he had that he had. He was
like the different type of cats for he had a
(34:41):
little bit of that on the I'm not I'm not
a twenty point scorer, but my confidence is like I'm
the man, I'm you know what I'm saying. And he
brought that confidence with him that permeated throughout the whole team,
like we're gonna take on his his personality competitive wise
and swagger wise. And even though they never got through
(35:04):
those ron teams or whatever, they put the fear of
God in them.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, and he didn't have a sexy shot, like that
was my biggest question. His forum was nasty. But I
just be like, they go in, they go in, don't
touch it, you know what I mean. Like, listen, he
started making threes. It was getting strange. It's getting strange
in the league. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Underrated passer too, Yeah, that underrated You could you couldn't.
He couldn't score, but you can run the offense through him.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And he thought he was in an MVP conversation. He's
an MVP conversation. And you know how crazy that he
is to think about, Like, because he was doing so
much for the Bulls at one point in time when
the rose went down, I was just like, wow, all right, dog,
like you really like that Corey Brower teammate. Mm hmm,
you know you said they went back to back, know
(35:56):
what got most out Standing Player in two thousand and six.
Corty Brewer two thousand and seven, had a nice fourteen
year career. Has one of the rarest fifty point games ever,
you know what I mean. He was one of those
who had fifty you know, straight lays, straight lays, you
know what I mean, high fly lays. He also won
(36:17):
a title with the Mavericks, just kind of you know,
crazy when you really think about it. So proven winner
brew on the coaching staff somewhere right.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, I just saw him. I don't remember where it
was at off the top of my head, but I
just saw him.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, I mean, and you won't you want those type
of guys on your you know, in your in your
in your organization, because he gets it. He's a pro,
he's experienced winning. And I hope those dudes, you know,
the young guys listening to those type of guys because
they really did it, you know what I mean. And
I think Pelicans. He's at the Pelicans, shouts at Japari.
So you know, these these are the type of people
(36:55):
that you know in the league were very valuable in
in different ways, you know what I mean. Like I
don't know if he would be like a great Vet
but he's definitely a great year for a young player.
Trying to he's.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Played a lot of different roles. Yeah, because he's played
a lot of different roles in the league. He's been
that guy in college, been a guy for certain times
in the league, played different roles, came off the bench
and at the end of the bench. Firstly, I'm saying
like he's he's experienced everything a player could experience in
the league. So he got that wisdom to pass down.
But yeah, I mean it's him and Joe Kim No
(37:31):
kind of breath of fresh air after the Shawn Mays.
The Ocle four's guys who played who had great college careers,
played a long time in college, and then their games
actually translated to the league, like it was. It was
good to see because you kind of got kind of
get depressed and when it's like, man, what is college mean?
Like they played for three four years and winning, they
(37:52):
come to the league and don't paying out, It's like, man,
it's getting spookie out here, dude.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I remember talking to Earl Boakins when ye right, I
want to say, it's my senior year of college and
Earl Boykins this when he s with Milwaukee he just
came off for like crazy run with Denver, and I
remember just feeling demoralized. Right, I'm watching Earl Boykins bench
press four hundred and fifty pounds. Now, mind you, if
(38:17):
you don't know who for our listeners, Earl Boykins is
five to five one thirty five. So this is crazy
when you really think about it, five five one fifty five.
I'll give him that right if that so can we?
But strong like seeing this with my own eyes, watching
them bench pressing, just like what And he's saying, like,
(38:38):
if you got to do more than three years, then
you know it might not be for you, because that
was the conversation at that time, you.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Know, yeah, that's that looked they were going to draft you.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
This is two thousand and nine, and he's saying, if
you got to do more than three years in college,
might not be for you because the NBA's I is
looking at players as you're too old because the draft
was on upside.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Are you're too old or they gonna keep They're gonna
watch you so much and and dissect your game so much.
They're gonna try to pick out all the negative things
like oh he's good, he does this, but I'm seeing
all his little deficiencies and all the negativities. That's gonna
hurt you, hurt you. You might continue to get better
as a player, it might help your career, but as
(39:32):
far as your draft stock, it's gonna it's you know
what I'm saying, Like it's you know.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Your age really was loud. Francisco Garcia used to be like,
he's such and such and I'm like, damn hoping? What
what what he hoping? Why does it matter? You saying
he was an old rookie? Right, he is an old rookie. Yeah,
but they were like every time it's age age age,
and it's like and Georgia, Chris, Georgie had to deal
(39:58):
with that too. Where you hearing it all right?
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Dog, Like he had a good game, Why does this matter?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
You know? Like as if he's gonna get like an
injuries looming, like you know his injuries about to happen
because he's twenty five.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, like that now you seem like he washed up
at twenty six, Like it's so crazy. They feel like
if you if you that age, you got to come
in right away and put and be a top seven
roll guy on the team, like you don't have a year.
You don't have no time to develop. You got to
come in hit the ground running. Because we got nineteen
year olds. That's we're gonna give two three years to develop.
(40:37):
If you twenty five, just say you washed up.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
You might be done after that first time, that first
little year. So you know that's interesting. Man, I watched
this dude win straight out of Alaska. Mario two thousand
and eight most All Standing Player two tome NBA Champion
with the Miami Heat significant contributor. You know, imagine going
(41:01):
to play le Bron, Chris Bosh and d Wade. You
know how to win, and they yelling at you like
you don't know how to play at all.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Like I give him a lot of credit.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
You got to get credit. Man.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Well, he went through the scrutiny in the media on
his own team and he still showed up, made big
shots time after time, won afraid to let it fly
in big moments. He just had that bravado like he
went scared of him. He always he was one of
those delusional confidence guys in the league, Like he always
felt like he was better than what the masters thought
(41:37):
he was, which which ultimately I think helps a player
in that career, if you if you don't take it
too far.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Would you say you had a sympathetic similarity to him
playing in Brooklyn with a stack Brooklyn team where you
know you can offer way more, but you got to
like sacrifice your game so much.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah yeah, Ben Katie Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Kyrie, and you're looking like I know I could do
so much more, but I gotta just do this. I
felt like that was with Charmers, Like when Broun or
somebody was out and Chalmers get to cook. You're like
here a thirty and it's like, yeah, he capable of
doing this. It's just like you gotta shrink your game
so much. And this is how I never played in
(42:20):
the NBA. The best team I've ever played on my
life was like the my Drew League team, right, and
my Jrew League team would be stacked, like you know,
Marcus Williams, Bobby Brown, Lurch Big Red, you know what
I mean. But like we got the chemistry and then
I'll get on the floor. I also play point guard.
Marcus Williams play point guard, Bobby Brown play point guard.
(42:43):
Tray stand in the corner. I need the ball in
my hand because I'm not used to cutting, you're now hitting.
You're putting me in like situations that I'm not successful for,
so I almost look like I don't know how to
play basketball, you know what I mean. So I could
see a Mario Chalmers where Bron's like I'm going to
hold them to bring the ball up, and you relocate
and now you're just kind of dancing like that's the
(43:06):
weirdest spot dog with you.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
But that's when that's where his skill set kind of
helped him out because he could he could translate and
just catching shoot. He can just standing there and catching shoot,
which is hard to do, like without a rhythm. So
you can see you and see him sometimes and not
touch the ball for a while, catch it, hit a shot?
Mad with that, but he'll be okay with But he
would be like mad like he was like he ain't
(43:28):
touched the ball, like man, I still do this, but
you know you can see it all over his face.
But that he never let it hurt his game, you
know what I'm saying. I think.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
And another strange thing when you see that in the NBA,
it's almost like team manager vibes, right, like when they
make a shot, you're like, no, he always could do
this joint Like, it's not like, why are you getting
excited because he made a shot. He's an NBA player,
he's draft he's a starter. He's a starter on like
a very good team. It's just like he's just not
(43:56):
gonna get a chance every once in a while to
do this.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
And and the problem with the league is once you
were in that role, it's hard to get out of it.
Once they put you in that no matter what, once
they put you in that spot up.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Like, I only imagine you playing in the back court
with Luca bro like he gonna find you. But like
also there's gonna be some time where.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
You just like, all right, it's hard for you to
develop your game, but you gotta make it work. If
you want longevity, you gotta make it work. The league
ain't I ain't stopping for nobody, but nobody.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Another player, Wayne Ellen, Wayne Alinton, Most Hot Standing player
in two thousand and nine, small bucket seven hundred and
seventy seven games, six teams over thirteen year career. He
made some bread. But you know at North.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Carolina he was, Yeah, he was that guy in North Carolina,
that god, big time score. And then in the league
he kind of he went through a couple of different
waves of his game, like he would. He was good
right away to start, then he had some lows. Then
he went to the heat and kind of revamped himself. Yep,
came off the bench, became with just the elite volume
shooter because in college he could always shoot, but he
(45:05):
was like a little off the dribble mid range kind
of got something so then he kind of just like
extended to the three point line. And one of my
one of my favorite guys have watched is because of
his smooth his his his footwork was always on point
going into a shot, like yeah, his his pivot work
was nice. He always had his base under him as
a shooter, So I learned I actually learned a lot
(45:26):
from him watching him play, just different ways to get
your shot off, and he had a quick, quick release
to being able to shoot off the move. So one
of those shooters. I definitely took some from his game
and modeled my play after I was As I was
coming up, I used to call.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Him mister February, mister July. He either was gonna always
be on the move or get sign like He's the
guy that like he lasted Honestly, he lasted.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Longer than I thought. Yeah, I thought he's not like
an eight nine year career.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
But he's so invaluable, like to a point of like, yo,
we need shooting, we need shooting, and he'll come up big,
like hey, you know he gave us he made five
threes and you're like what, Okay. You know he ended
up playing for the Lakers. He's playing for these random
teams and he's just looking like dang man, I see
why they traded for him. So like he's a fan
(46:17):
favorite on that part of showing up and making big
shots for them, you know what I mean. So he's
definitely a valuable person. All Right, we're gonna take a
quick break when we come back. We're gonna give our
five greatest March Madness heroes that turn for all right,
(46:47):
dot Man. We talked about a lot of guys that,
you know, we're great college players. Some of their careers
panned out in the NBA, some didn't, but just also
just great you know, to to talk about them and
you know, their illustrious college careers and just mentioned them,
(47:07):
just speaking them up and in a positive way, you
know what I mean. I think that was super cool,
but I'm really interested to hear you're five.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
My five. I'm going number five. I got a Mecca okah. Four,
got to give him some Charlotte love. It was the Bobcats,
but he was number two pick. But yes, solid career.
Obviously you want more from his number two pick, but
I mean that's who he was, so he had a
solid career. Number five, I got a Mecca. Number four,
give me Corey Brewer, okay. Number three I got Joe
(47:39):
kiem Noah, okay. Two is Shane Battier, okay. And then
number one obviously it's consensus. Carmelo Anthony, that's that guy.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Okay, Okay. I'm shocked that Rio didn't make your list.
I'm shot.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I was the bang between him and a Mecca, and
I just went to Mecca because I thought he was.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
He was.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I mean, I thought he was a little bit of
more of a better player in the league. He had
the big moments because he wasn't on the Heat teams.
But I went with a Mecca.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Well, I'm gonna go with two Miami Heat champions at five.
I'm gonna go Rio at four. I'm gonna go Shane
Battier at three. I'm gonna go h I'm gonna go
Corey Brewer at three, at two, I'm gonna go Joe
Kim Noah, and at one Carmelo. Obviously, all these guys
(48:33):
had success, but I like champions But then I also
like over the only thing. If you're a championship contributor
or an All Star, you get a priority spot on
my list. But if you're an individual success like an
All Star, consist like just constantly killing the league and
(48:55):
just ran into some tough battles, you're probably gonna get
placed hired than.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
The team my five. I went more individual, Yeah, I
went more yeah because a lot of I ain't. I
didn't look at a situation based yeah, because I mean player.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, and that and that and that's and that's cool
and that in that way, and that's that's rightful. So
we had a lot of Bobcats on there, So that's
kind of kind of funny when you think about it.
You know, a couple of guys could have been on
there for sure. All Right, we're gonna take another quick
break and we're gonna do Born in the Wrong Era.
I think this one's gonna be really good because there's
a lot of guys that just were drafted and given
(49:29):
a bad you know, bad hand off off rip, and
I think that if they were playing in today's game,
they were better. All right, guy, we gave us five.
(49:54):
If I want to start and kick this off with
more than the wrong era, I'm going to say Jan Dixon.
I think Wan Dixon would be a decent player. I
don't think he'd be an All Star, but I think
that he would have a longer career than what he
had in his you know, his actual career. He would
benefit for it. I think he would be a starter
(50:16):
in this league and also just contribute to to to
the game and in a way that would be valued
more than how how his professional career went. And probably
in the same success of Maryland, you know what I
mean when he was bump. When he was bumping, he
would be an intricate of a playoff team or maybe
even a championship team.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, this is going through this list. It's crazy because
it's the two thousands. I don't seem that long ago,
but it's like a whole different age of hoops. This
is com of these names. The way the league was played,
the way college was played, and that's why IM gonna
go with Sean May for my born in the wrong
era because I think in today's day he could have
He could shoot the mini so well. I think he
(50:58):
could have extended that to the three one line if
he really worked at it and up this volume. Obviously
he would have had to for him to play in
the days that he would have had to get more mobile.
I mean he always we always yeah he had like
health issues, but like weight issues, like he had to
keep his weight down and it took a lot of work.
If he could have did that, he could have been
highly successful in today's league just because of his shooting ability,
(51:19):
is skill level passing. Could have been one of those
undersized bigs that we'd like to talk about on here
that would thrive in today's game. So I always thought
Sean May was just a smooth he had that that
jump or a smooth guy on the perimeter and in
the block. In college, you could do both, So I
think he could have he could have developed well in
today's league.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. I don't I don't
want to call him ic type, you know what I mean?
Because of doing that, we're doing that for sure, for sure,
for sure allright, too much dip on the chip. All right, man,
this has been a great episode. Man, thanks for sticking
with us. Where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (52:01):
As Doc Curry hit me up on threads X all
over man, just chop it up, yeah man.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Also on thread to act Trey on Instagram as well
at travaon on X. Be sure to hit up the
Act the Goat pod. We're loving the remarks. I got
some love on my top five the other day. Shouts
to barn Nune. Also, somebody said that your list was valid,
so I think that's cool. A lot of people still
(52:29):
giving me slack for leaving out certain players. I love it.
Keep them coming and we'll be will be continue to
push this conversation as we continue to have you know,
the pod going all right for seth for.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Me, Goat, Goat.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
This has been a Unanimous Media original. Goat was produced
by iHeart podcast and Unanimous Media. It was hosted by
me Edwards and step Kirk. Executive produced by Stephen Curry
and Eric Katon. Co executive producer Klena Maria Cutting. The
executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Sean Titon and Jason Hinglish.
(53:13):
This series was produced by Derek Jennings and Peter Kupchen,
co producer Kurt Reddy. Original music by Jesse Woodard. Special
thanks to Stephen Curry and Will Pearson. Got is a
production of Unanimous Media and iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
We win the championship, we about to go lottery. We
might take a hit next year. Our draft stack might
take a hit next year if we come back and
fall off or don't win again. And they all came
back and won again. That's legendary right there.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome back to another episode of Greatest of their eras
going on, What up? What up?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Man?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We got the Pune one today. You know, we're in
a good spirit of March madness, you know, talking about
some hoops, some college hoops, and but you know on
this show we keep it pro. But man, this is
definitely your phone right here. You know, we're doing the
greatest March Madness. Heroes turned pro in the year two thousands.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, sir, it's a good time of the year, man,
March maddens. If you're a basketball hey, you love it.
You got NBA rolling close it down the year and
then the March Madness. Obviously you never know what's gonna happen.
And today some of these some of these players made
it name for themselves going into the draft, and somebody
after you after you make a big run in the
(01:04):
tournament and then your your stock and rise, and everybody's
on the lookout for you at the next level. So
some interesting stories we're gonna get into.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Now. You played in the tournament. Uh you know who
was one person that wasn't on your radar that went crazy?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I mean in the tournament. I remember my my sophomore year,
we ended up losing to Arizona and they had what
was a buddy name from Arizona who was the number
two pick, Derek Williams. Yeah, I mean he was he
was hooping all year, but we really elevated his draft
stock because they beat us in the suite in the
I think it was the Sweet sixteen, and we had
(01:44):
a stack stacked team with Kyrie coming back and we
were probably the favorite set into the tournament, and he
just went off on us. So that elevated his stock.
And that's one of the guys like you knew he
was good, but he had a game of his life
against Yes that night.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
And I think that's the thing, you know what I mean.
Like obviously we joke with CJ about you know that
comes up every March, right and when.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You had especially when come from a school like Lee
High or Yeah, we're talking about seeing McCullum, how they
upset us in the first round.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And then you think about like these teams in the
current one with high point, you know what I mean,
certain guys just just doing their thing, man, and they
and they changed their their trajectory of their career, you
know what I mean, they probably would have had just
a decent year and now you potentially getting some calls
from some front offices. Man, March is like the one
time you really can display it all, you know what
(02:36):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Like literal CJ one is interesting because I mean I
remember heading into that term. It was the first round.
We were playing le High and we went to scout
Report and coaches, you know, they try to hype up
every game, coaches trying to take it seriously and get
us ready. So all year we're like, we played with
a team, we know it's supposed to be. We're better
than they're like, Oh, this guy, he's killing his in
his league play. He's averaging twenty twenty five thirty in
(02:59):
league whatever it is. So that was the scout Ford
coming into that game, and they had a good point
guard and they had CJ. Who was who was the
best player in the in that league, and he coaches
hypingh he could play Yep, yeap be ready. He can
he can go and obviously we scout him, took him seriously.
But that loss looks better every year because of CJ McCallum, man,
(03:21):
like every year nobody. We were devastated at the time,
but now you look back on this, like it was
c J McCollum, he was We had a good team.
I mean it was me, Austin Rivers, the plumb Leaves,
like we had a good team. But I mean just
Beyon that was the best player on the floor, Like, no,
you could do. He was ining tough shots.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He's just having to go to league high.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, he's still doing it to this day. He could
have played in any team in the in the country.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah. No, that's real. That's real. I mean that that's
the beauty of March badness. Man. It's just kind of
like and the only thing I dislike about it is
how they make it seem like hot did this guy
slip through the cracks or just didn't get to the school.
And it's just like like sometimes guys just develop over this,
like getting into the program too and just getting better
(04:06):
over the year, especially if like they really break out
their junior year or something. It's not like, oh, they
missed out on like recruiting, Like guys are literally getting
better and improving their game.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It's a good guy you. That's a good point because
I mean I kind of relay that to myself, even
staph in some sense, like a lot of people say
the schools whoever missed out on recruiting. That's obviously we
were hooping in high school. We were always good, but
we were undersized, and for me personally, like I wasn't.
I speak for myself, like I don't think I was.
I was a good high school player. I was. I mean,
(04:38):
do you think you're a dupe ready? Yet I was not.
I wasn't even close, Like I was not. I know,
I wasn't good enough to play in the ACC at
the my junior senior year in high school. So I
just I made a big jump my freshman year and
then I was ready. So it's not like I mean
they should maybe could have gave me a chance, but yeah,
there was no chance.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I was ready. Would have been there, probably would have sat,
and then you would have been frustrated and you wouldn't
have developed the way you want to get the reps
and everything that they're needed and I think that's the
that's the erasure sometimes in the development of a player, right,
just saying oh man, yeah, and we get these stories
every time because it's like even when a god transfers
(05:19):
to another program and he gets off, sometimes them systems
aren't for that player. Like they probably not getting the touches.
You know, they're playing half court instead of you know,
open court. Like different things, the different sets, the looks
that they're getting, the confidence that they're being built with. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Man, even mentally they may might not have been ready,
might have the talent, but mentally, like you playing at
a Duke or Carolina or whatever, it is like you
can't you you're not ready for that pressure. Every night
you go to a different school, it's different expectations. You
got the ball every night, so your confidence grows and
you're a better player. It's not like, oh they didn't
play me, because I mean I was good, but that
I didn't get the opportunity. It's just you you might
(05:57):
have got better at a different situation.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, all right, let's let's jump into the show. We're
gonna go straight to Flint, Michigan, Flint Stones Mateen Cleves
uh NCAA. Uh you know, two thousand, two thousands most
outstanding player, you know what I mean? Uh wound up
being a six year VET playing one hundred and sixty
seven games with the Pistons, Kings, Calves, Sonics. People still
(06:21):
to this day talk about that two thousands team. I
just remember them for having the green irises, you know
what I mean, mop they had. I think Charlie Bell
was on that team as well, you know, like they
were they were like, uh, I didn't say Cinderella because
though obviously you know who we is, but like just
really thinking about putting them on the map of like
(06:44):
dang got respect it because I only thought about them
through Magic Johnson like and it was a heat like
those coming out party, yeah, one thousand percent of like
hey he can he can get you to the big dance.
He can you know, he can coach, he can get wins.
And my team was just really like that man commanding
the floor, like who is this guard? If he wasn't
watching them all year, you know what I mean? And
(07:06):
I was. I was, I was like in ninth grade,
so I really wasn't like overly locked in, like being
able to follow through the season. But when it happened,
it was like the greatest run. So like they win,
and he got this like signature look he turns his
hat to the side, he puts his net on his
around his neck, and I'm like, yo, he's going to
kill a league, like because I just didn't know, like
(07:27):
I wasn't watching a game with the eyes I have now,
so I'm just like, oh, he whoever drafts him, like
they're gonna be like, you know, over the top. And
it was kind of crazy, man, but like you know,
he was able to you know, show you know, hope
and and last longer than most guys that usually have
these type of you know, magical runs and stuff like that,
(07:48):
and it just didn't really translate as much. And he
also had hit the injury bug. But it was pretty
cool for to see him play for the Pistons and
stuff like that, and you know, every I feel like
every every guard get they King stint the Kings is
like the rights of pashes, Like you played for the Kings,
like you like, all right, the King's gonna give you
a shot for real. And then you know, like the
(08:10):
other other Calves, the Calves and the Sonics weren't that
good during that those early two thousands, before Lebron, but
Team Cleets also has a great story about watching Lebron
for the first time, you know what I mean, Like
coming in he was with the Calves and he said, oh,
he way better than everybody on his team, and he
probably was the only person on that team that was
(08:32):
not hating on him. Like that was like, you know,
cause Ricky Davis is like, oh, they drafted him to
get me the ball, Like Darrick S. Miles was like
still de Miles didn't say nothing crazy, but he was
just kind of like, I don't know because I came
out of high school too, so it might not be
as easy. This is like, you know, because everybody's still
trying to figure out if it's man, you know, if
he gonna hit a game, gonna translateklets like one workout,
(08:55):
that boy good, like he's seen it. You know. He
probably was just getting his body right to get healthy
and get back on the floor. But he's just was like, yo,
Lebron for the chump was always gonna be who he
was gonna be.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And I was like, I respect that, yeah now, but
I was saying, like this is finny because Mateen Cleves
and that that the Michigan State run to the championship
was my first memory of like college basketball. I was
like nine, ten years old. Yeah, so I remember making
that run and that's when I was I was locked
in the whole way and the teen cle like it
kind of hurt you being this big of a star
(09:27):
and having this role at the next level because you're
such like a household name after the tournament run and
people like the fans and people expect you to be
that in the league and it's a whole different level.
You might, like I said, it might just you were
the man at that at the college level, that was
it was your system. You're a senior, you had that confidence.
You come to the league, you trying to find your way,
(09:49):
but everybody knows you, you know what I'm saying. Everybody
knows who you are. You on the end of the
bench in the NBA maybe and like, oh, we want
to see Mateen Cleves play, but that's not that's not
what they asking ye when you come to the leagues.
Not yet.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
He wasn't drafted. He wasn't drafted to have keys handed
to him, you know what I'm saying, Like franchise.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
When it comes to talent, and like overall, like side
skill whatever he was, he he he did pretty good
to have a six year NBA career, to be honest,
like yeah, and but like I said, his name kind
of outweighed his game at the NBA level. Yeah, but
when it comes to who like he's a basketball, he's
he's smart. You're gonna figure out a way to make
(10:27):
an impact no matter what.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Collegiate, collegiate legend, you know what I mean. Here on out,
he can go get a desk job, he can go
b GM whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
He behind behind the bench in Phoenix right now.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Okay, damn, I don't even know that. That's the Okay,
oh yeah, taking care of that's the state guys shouts
to that, you know what I mean? All Right, Shane Battier,
we just talked about him in the previous episode. You know,
he probably didn't reach the all star level that most
(11:01):
people I don't know. I mean, he was hooping on
both ends of the floor for Duke, like he was
the Swiss Army Knight for them, you know what I mean.
So he was kind of to be honest, he was
to me, he was the same player in college that
he was in the league. It's just it's I mean,
college is less talented overall, so he's a little bit better.
But he never tried to do too much at any level.
(11:23):
Like even in college he was he was you know,
he reminded me of though he was a star, he
was gonna do you know, like like Harrison had a
little bit more playmate, like a little bit more one
on one to his game in college. Yeah. So I'm
just talking about trajectory of star to going into role
to being you know, been in a chip and then
(11:44):
being effective and still getting to those year thirteens, those
year tens, you know, and beyond where you're like, oh man,
you was drafted really high and the upside of it,
most people think you're about to be offensive and you like, nah,
I'm gonna just slide into this three because Andrew Wiggins
would be one of those guys, like certain guys that
just like, you know, they gonna help you win versus
(12:08):
being what the guy get.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Them credits the winner, We'll get them credit. And the
Shane Battier's and the hbs is where like they're smart.
They know they know who they are as players, and
they know that game and they know they know they
they're value. They can have value because they're so versatile
and well rounded as a players, they can have value
and make a lot of money in the league not
being the number one option. So you know what I'm saying,
(12:31):
if you if you can guard the best one of
the best players every night, knockdown shots, and then you
can throw on the ball every once in a while
and have them create some offense for you. But I mean,
Shane is like a solid of NBA career, is one
can ask for like thirteen years on multiple championship teams,
contenders Like, I mean, you can't. It's hard. It's harder
(12:57):
to give them any slighter his NBA careers, college career,
just him as a basketball play in general, He's up there.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, I think. I think the cool thing about some
of these players on the list is that when they're
acquired doing free agency or traded for there's a love
from the fans of the respect of the specialist part
that they add, you know what I mean, Like they
may have been a star. They're a prime example of
if you're coming out of high school and you need
(13:25):
to see the trajectory of how real the NBA is,
you see these players who are like all world. They
won a title for their teams, and then they have
to fit in and they become like specialists for what
they do best. So when you get like yourself, oh
we getting a shooter, We know we getting a shooter
(13:46):
every team, Like, oh, this is the fix for the
championship team. We needed to shooter every time we're getting you.
You know what I'm saying. So like a battier Memphis
trade team, he goes there, he goes to the Miami Heat.
That's the defender they always needed. Now bron can kind
of focus on specific offense. D Wade can focus on offense.
(14:07):
And hey, Sam, Betty, you're gonna guard the best person.
Tied him down.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You know how they say you you hate him, like
you hate this guy unless he's on your team. A
lot of guys get that rep and Shane is that
kind of guy, Like you don't think he's that good
until you watch him every night on your team. Like
how much value he brings? Yeah, And like you said,
when when when you bring yeah? Oh yeah, ultimately at
(14:33):
the respect of everybody in the league, everybody in that
locker room. When he lock when he walks into your
locker room and starts talking the stars is Park like
they listen to him, you know what I'm saying, Yeah,
he got that kind of that kind of cache in
the league and around the the just the basketball whole,
a whole basketball sphere.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
That might be an underrated skill that these guys on
this list possessed, right, So, yeah, if you win on
the collegiate level, you're leaned upon as being the guy.
But you also can take the pressure off a guy
who may be the best scorer or the best quote
(15:11):
unquote player overall, and you can take the leadership off
their hands and lead the locker room because like fans
look at like, if you're the best scorer, you're the
best star, you got to lead too. And it's like, nah,
that's not one of the qualities that's supposed to come
with that too, you know what I mean. You got
to have somebody that can keep it, you know, and
if you're respected. Most of these guys that want at
(15:33):
a top level are absolute pros.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And I mean that's a good point because everybody in
the league watches college basketball and they know and they
know if you win it at the college basketball level,
it's hard to do. You might not be like as
talented come to the league. But you got that you
walk into the NBA and those locker room with some
sense of respect. Like right now we got will Richard
on our team or rookie here Golden State, and he
(15:57):
won the championship last year's he gonna be a Solida player,
not a star, nothing, second round pick. But everybody in
this locker room like, we watched him go through that run,
yes last year to the NCAA championship, and we watched
how he conduct himself when he came into this locker room. Man,
he's not even wrong here. Rook Now, he still got
to do the rookie duties, but we got a sense
of respect for him because he won a championship. Coming
(16:18):
into the league.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
It's just different and the expectation, you know, like, all right,
he knows how to win.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, he a winner.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
You get what I'm saying. So you can look in
the foxhole type situation and say, all right, were down nine,
it's like two minutes and thirty seconds. You believe Draymond,
believe this other player believe And now you're like, hey,
rook you out here on the floor, you're playing really well.
Coach Kurk gonna keep you out here. Let's let's go
(16:47):
in this game.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah. So oft when we won, KERR wasn't scared to
put him out there on the floor even when the
guys were healthy, cause he would play low minutes, but
in big situations with Kurk would throw him out there
because you know, he gonna make the right place. He's
not gonna hurt us. He's a winner, like you said.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, and that's not that value. So you know, I
had to make that point because it was just it
was it was floating right there for me to put
out there, and I was like, that's a good, you know,
thing to point out when when you're scouting or looking
at that. All right, this next player, Wan Dickson, gonna
know who Wan Dixon is. Look him up? Had game
(17:24):
another Most Outstanding Tournament Player two thousand and two, scoring
combo guard undersized average twelve. You know what I'm saying.
Had some productive years in six with the with the Blazers.
Uh put up eleven for the Raptors the second half
of the season, but again undersize. I felt like he
(17:46):
was born in the wrong era. Probably would cook and.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
He came in at he's a he's that typical college
like just star like one of my favorite college guys ever,
six six three, But he's that typical twiner. Like when
back then it was like what position do you play
If you don't play point guard, if you if you're
not big enough to play shooting guard, the guard, two
guards in the league, it's hard for you to stick.
Now it's it's kind of changed, like you can, you can,
(18:11):
you can just be a guard and if you're good enough,
you're good enough.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, he would have easily been a guy that just
would have been scoring like crazy, and it would have
been like, oh, he doing what he do in college,
you know what I mean, But like aking Wan Dixon
to play the one axing Wan Dickson the guard, all
those tall two guards, yeah, you know it can't do that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, And when that that was just the sentiment of
the league back then, like it was you had to
be one of the other. And even when they gave
Steph a little bit issue about it coming out because
I mean, ultimately he can he can play the point.
I mean he's the point guard his whole life. But
he scored so well and then everybody was putting him
in the kind of like that one Dixon type role,
Like what position does he plays? He a Twiners?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
This is he that?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So that's kind of made him slip in the draft
a little bit, like they didn't know if he could
sure play the point guard or not.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, no, I remember it. I never had a question
about if he gonna be an NBA player, But I
just was like, Okay, is this going to fly? You
know what I'm saying, because like the deep three, how
guy's gonna defend him? Cool?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Whatever he can, you know, let that fly unless unless
unless you were a AI, if you're under a certain size,
they didn't feel comfortable playing you off the bar.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, and he didn't also like go to the rack
as much, you know what I mean, as he did
further into it, like them MVP seasons, Like I'm like, oh,
he an underrated finisher, Like he doing backdoor cuts, he
doing all these things. Like but the stuff that he
was getting like basically red flag for he just didn't
(19:47):
get to display as much because the team, the type
of team he had to, you know what I mean,
Like he's still playing with Captain Jack, like he playing with.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Mikey McCoy and they kind of switched the mold eventually
because they feel like they realized how good he was,
but they would throw him in there with other guys
who can handle playing with two smaller guys with point
guards and the game, the league, and they just shifted.
The coaches just shifted in that. Like I said, it
hurt guys like Juan Dixon, Yeah, because they weren't given
the opportunity to to play with another another smaller guard
(20:22):
point or even a bigger point guard who could guard
twos while he could guard the ones.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
This next player car crazy run. He's number one on
all both of our lists, no question, Freshman year one
and nine. You know, Hall of Fame class twenty five,
ten Times All Star twenty thirteen, Scory Chap, NBA seventy
fifth Anniversary team member. I mean, the most decorated dude
(20:48):
on Team USA, Like this is this is this is
one of those things where, you know, even watching Mellow,
I'm pretty sure that was fun for you. You probably
were like a team that was, you know, my freshman
year of college and I'm just like, dude. And the
crazy thing about it, we played against Mellow in high school,
so I got to see it a couple times, like
(21:11):
at okill, like Yo. Okill always pushed people out, you
know what I mean, Like we had like an unwritten,
weird rivalry at Deman. It's like, we match up with Okill,
We're gonna play them. That's gonna be a big game
of the year. It's our like non conference game where
people actually smell the butter, you know what I mean,
in the air because this is this is a big game,
(21:33):
you know, and they're gonna match him up against Tyson
and all these other things. And Mellow is just one
of those dudes. And I don't even think like he
was him and him and this dude Caruth, you know
what I mean, was super nice. But I remember Mello
going to Syracuse and I was just it was him
and Braun, Like Bron's my year, so I'm like Melo's
(21:55):
one year older than us, and I remember just watching like, yo,
what is he gonna do? And him Gary madg Hakeemo work,
you know, like they had an interesting team and like
they played the two three zone. They you know, Mellow
coming out there, jumper, pretty big range, he getting a three,
and it just was like almost mind blowing seeing a
(22:17):
guy like his statue, his size be able to like
move the way he do. He had the braids, his
swag was up, like you just knew. So then when
he got to Denver the Colors, they changed the uniform
scheme for him, like everything was just different.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I got a question about the whole Mellow thing. What
do you what do you think about the the sentiment
Mellow is not a winner because you remember back like
his first his he came into college, won right away.
He was a winner when it got in the league,
him and Bron going neck and next for Rookie of
the Year. They said, oh, LaMelo, I mean Carmelo wins.
You know what I'm saying. Mellow wins, Bron putting up numbers.
(22:55):
But he now he not a win. He not winning.
And then as their careers went along, because never had
a championship level team or whatever and never won a championship,
they're like, oh, he know, he's just a score. He
never winning. The whole conversation about Mellow change, like where
you at on that? Because like I said, early on,
he was. He was the winner of the class, right.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I think it's the media fault. I think it's the fans' fault.
I think we did a disservice to Carmelo Anthony in
a way that we gave championship like ring ring, you know,
ring chasing, and that conversation or the table over put
the black cloud over his career right because he went
(23:34):
to the playoffs rookie year right clearly the leading scorer, you.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Know, like that's far. He affected winning right away.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
He affected the franchise. Denver was not a good franchise
before that, you know what I mean, Like they weren't
a destination. It was almost a destination where you're getting
like random guys and playing for the Nuggets. Like Tim
Hardaway played there randomly, Like you're like what, like you
know what I'm saying, Bontigo, come ins, Chauncey Billups, like
a lot of journeymen played for the Nuggets, you know.
(24:07):
So before Melo got there and made it kind of
like this is a cool place to go, it was
just unfortunate because he played in the West. I couldn't
imagine him playing in the East. He probably would fare
out a little bit better. Like you ran into the
Dallases of the world, the Lakers, the Kings, the like
whoever it was you were constantly and then you know,
(24:28):
making it to Western conferce finals, him playing with iverson
fun on paper, not good together, you know what I mean,
Like George Carl also didn't overly invest in them, like oh,
we about to do this, Like he just had no
desire in coaching him.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
He just had to do it.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
It almost was a thorn in the side. But Mello
being able to rack up wins and he had a
chance to join that Miami team, he could have did
it and and changed the whole Like do we talk
about him differently if he joins that team. I kind
of like respected him, Yeah, I respect then, but he
(25:04):
got paid, So that also was like a slap on
the wrist on a situation of like, nah, you took
the money, you didn't care about winning. And I think
that's another discourse that it's kind of strange in the
NBA because it's unfortunate, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But us here ducking the smoke. He's still going out.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
He never did and he played, and he also had
to become a scapegoat. He was out there. He literally
got pushed out the league because of analytics because they
wasn't playing a game that he wanted to play. His
numbers was always there. They considered him selfish. He took
mid range shots that wasn't sexy, which is finally coming back.
But it's unfortunate that how Mellow went.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
The man was in New York, Like he took the money.
He was in New York. He probably thinking, Oh, that
I'm in New York, We're gonna be able to attract
some free agents. They gonna end up putting the team
around me that could compete with them, right, and they did.
Like he took the money in in Milwaukee or whatever was,
it was like, yeah, I mean, you took the money,
You're probably not gonna win. No, nobody's coming to Milwaukee.
(26:08):
It's New York Knicks. Yeah, like we eventually were gonna
have a chance.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
He had two teams that were very potentially good Nick's
tape with Jakid Rashie Wallace, the Vet Team, Junior j R. Smith, Little,
et cetera. Right, they were, Oh, but but those are
still the teams that were still getting over the hump
until they Paul George Roy Hibbert. You know, they ran
into some hitters right in Indiana. So then you get
(26:33):
the twenty sixteen team right where you're like, on paper,
this team could be good the Dereck Rose, the Brandon Jennings,
the Joe Kim Noah who else they have on that team? Uh?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
That was that was They had some names. It was
on paper and that was on paper. It wasn't like
a yeah, but there was. And it was like that
was good And it was like the Knicks was so
bad a year or two before that. It's like us
being a playoff level team. Yeah, you feel like they're contender,
but they not like even now like the Knicks, Knicks
(27:06):
winning a series of two fans are through the roof.
It's like they see that's what the Bartenders exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
The bar. The bar was so low there that that
was success in New York. You get what I'm saying,
Like Mellow come in there, getting traded there and then
getting them back to the playoffs. It was such a
such a drought, right of not being there and playing
in the postseason. Then he leaves such a drought again,
right and Nigga Jalen Brunton, and now they're back, you
(27:35):
know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Like you said a bar solo Mellow, the excitement was
so crazy in New York. Mellow just being there put
up numbers, having playoff contending teams. He probably felt like
he was a championship contender and he was winning championships and.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Mary Stotamarer, he thought like all right, and stat broke
his hand punching thing, you know, being upset. So like
they had Tyson, you know what I mean, Like they
had players, you know what I mean that you think like, oh,
they're gonna get it done, and they just teams are
just the NBA is hard to win. I think certain
teams just make it look easy. That's just that's just
(28:10):
the thing. It is only one team win, man. That's it.
If you if you're blessed with a good team and
you repeat and you make it back to the finals,
or you constantly make that trip and you got one
player like Bron. Again, I don't I don't want to
say like Bron's exceptional, but I would be curious if
(28:31):
the roles were reversed and he played in the West
and he had to go through all that like that
tough like you don't. I would be so curious if
those eight straight final appearances were on the West. It's
not happening because he got to l A and he's
only one one. He's only one one he's running here
(28:52):
older but still I'm just super but I'm just super
curious at twenty five year old bron on the Wests
Dirks of the world playing against.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
The It's not happening, bro, you had the Warriors them, Okay, see,
k the teams were stacked. It's just the odds are
just not in favor and.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Shouts the Carmelo man, you know one of them ones
definitely number one on this list, no question. We don't
even have to you know, that's that's a that's a
blank signing. He starts with number one, all right. A
Mecca Mecca on covers of video games, kind of one
of the weirdest flex three point nine g p A
(29:35):
you know what I mean, Like, yeah, my, my, my boy.
Marcus Williams played with him in Yukon. Let's talk about Mecca, Like, yo.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
You think about that, like the propaganda and the media
push they used to be back in the early two thousands,
Like who cares what the g p A is? Yeah, Kenny, Kenny, Yeah,
he's a good He's a smart dude. Keny, which he
could two.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Thousand national player this year, you know what I'm saying, Like,
you know, played ten years I remember his Bob catch years.
You know, he as fourteen eleven, Like that'll get him
paid now. But again, overall he dealt with some injuries.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Think about how think about how good he was in
college and how Yeah, coming out in the draft, it
was a it was a debate like should we take
the white or do we take a mecca? A mecca
in the horner? And it was like, oh, everybody, Charlotte,
you know, I remember everybody was like, oh, they might
take him, we might get the white. You don't know
what they're gonna do now. It was the White all
along obviously, But the thing is.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
They missed out to man, they tried to put four
year senior versus high school senior.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, I mean, I said, but.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Sorty used to play a part in actually drafting, like
is he going to be okay?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know what I mean for the NBA? And I'm
like that's the white hour, bro, Like now that's that
that evaluation has changed completely talented and if you're younger
it's better. Yeah, But like Charlotte was like, oh, then
Charlotte's like, oh, we got a number two pick. We
can't go wrong even if they take them. If they
take dwhighte A Mecca gonna be just as good. They
(31:12):
take a Mecca Dwight, he might, he might be better.
Like it's him.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Him and Adam Morrison were the two rare non North
Carolina guys coming back to Charlotte because I feel like
they were just drafted anybody that went to u n see,
you know what I mean, Like it was it was foy.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Think about this, bro, They was drafting four years seniors,
just all time great college players. But now today's game,
they don't even look twice at them as being top
five picks at all lottery picks. Like you know, the
god good you.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Are another Bobcat that we're talking about. Sean me same deal,
had a slew of injuries in the NBA, but in
at UNC a god right, just straight hoping, you know
what I mean. And like you think about, oh we
got Sean May and Raymond Felton the same team. It's
got to work the Chimon Street. It's going to just
(32:06):
translate to the.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
NBA, and it's like dog days. It's a different skill
level you gotta have in the league. Man, and those
those Carolina and beyond. I mean he was a star, yeah,
one of them but it might not have been the
best player on his team. Team tweener loaded. I mean
those Carolina teams that was winning loaded, bro, Yeah, felt
(32:29):
mc kant's Marvin Williams. Yeah, Marvin Williams. That team was stacked, bro.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Nor Carolina always had household names though, Like it's just funny,
like and they'll get to the NBA and you're like, man,
he's gonna he gonna do something a little bit, and
I'm just like, all right, you know that was always interesting.
Joe Kim, He's gonna be high on my list, passion
like he is the poster boy of one shining moment,
screaming energy. Two thousand and six Most Offtended Player, two
(33:00):
time All Star, three time All Defensive Player, played for
my Bulls, you know what I mean. Twenty fourteen All
NBA team. But like that Florida team, Corey Brewer, Torri
and Green, you know what I mean, Al Horforal.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, they went back to bath and they actually they
came back. They won that. That's just, like I said,
a rare, like rare foreign.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Time. Let's try it again.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, we win the championship. We about to go lottery.
We might take a hit next year. Our draft stack
might take a hit next year if we come back
and and fall off or don't win again, and they
all came back and won again. That's legendary right now.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I think that. I think the wildest part I felt
bad for Tory and Green because if it was nil, Yeah,
he's the he out of here, He out of here,
like out of here with.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
That though, Man, we don't want that.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So like you looking in the situation of like, yeah,
they legends for the rest of their lives, you know
what I mean. But it's just so crazy to think about,
like how crazy that team was. Like them dudes were defensive, offensive,
like putting a SmackDown block three half. Florida had them
cracking out.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
There, like and Joe came to everything he did in college.
He brought it right to the league the same player,
and I love, I love, I love the monster. Monster
on the defensive end, competitive as hell, would talk crazy
than anybody, like going toe to toe with bron in
the media like he had that he had. He was
like the different type of cats for he had a
(34:41):
little bit of that on the I'm not I'm not
a twenty point scorer, but my confidence is like I'm
the man, I'm you know what I'm saying. And he
brought that confidence with him that permeated throughout the whole team,
like we're gonna take on his his personality competitive wise
and swagger wise. And even though they never got through
(35:04):
those ron teams or whatever, they put the fear of
God in them.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, and he didn't have a sexy shot, like that
was my biggest question. His forum was nasty. But I
just be like, they go in, they go in, don't
touch it, you know what I mean. Like, listen, he
started making threes. It was getting strange. It's getting strange
in the league. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Underrated passer too, Yeah, that underrated You could you couldn't.
He couldn't score, but you can run the offense through him.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And he thought he was in an MVP conversation. He's
an MVP conversation. And you know how crazy that he
is to think about, Like, because he was doing so
much for the Bulls at one point in time when
the rose went down, I was just like, wow, all right, dog,
like you really like that Corey Brower teammate. Mm hmm,
you know you said they went back to back, know
(35:56):
what got most out Standing Player in two thousand and six.
Corty Brewer two thousand and seven, had a nice fourteen
year career. Has one of the rarest fifty point games ever,
you know what I mean. He was one of those
who had fifty you know, straight lays, straight lays, you
know what I mean, high fly lays. He also won
(36:17):
a title with the Mavericks, just kind of you know,
crazy when you really think about it. So proven winner
brew on the coaching staff somewhere right.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, I just saw him. I don't remember where it
was at off the top of my head, but I
just saw him.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, I mean, and you won't you want those type
of guys on your you know, in your in your
in your organization, because he gets it. He's a pro,
he's experienced winning. And I hope those dudes, you know,
the young guys listening to those type of guys because
they really did it, you know what I mean. And
I think Pelicans. He's at the Pelicans, shouts at Japari.
So you know, these these are the type of people
(36:55):
that you know in the league were very valuable in
in different ways, you know what I mean. Like I
don't know if he would be like a great Vet
but he's definitely a great year for a young player.
Trying to he's.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Played a lot of different roles. Yeah, because he's played
a lot of different roles in the league. He's been
that guy in college, been a guy for certain times
in the league, played different roles, came off the bench
and at the end of the bench. Firstly, I'm saying
like he's he's experienced everything a player could experience in
the league. So he got that wisdom to pass down.
But yeah, I mean it's him and Joe Kim No
(37:31):
kind of breath of fresh air after the Shawn Mays.
The Ocle four's guys who played who had great college careers,
played a long time in college, and then their games
actually translated to the league, like it was. It was
good to see because you kind of got kind of
get depressed and when it's like, man, what is college mean?
Like they played for three four years and winning, they
(37:52):
come to the league and don't paying out, It's like, man,
it's getting spookie out here, dude.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I remember talking to Earl Boakins when ye right, I
want to say, it's my senior year of college and
Earl Boykins this when he s with Milwaukee he just
came off for like crazy run with Denver, and I
remember just feeling demoralized. Right, I'm watching Earl Boykins bench
press four hundred and fifty pounds. Now, mind you, if
(38:17):
you don't know who for our listeners, Earl Boykins is
five to five one thirty five. So this is crazy
when you really think about it, five five one fifty five.
I'll give him that right if that so can we?
But strong like seeing this with my own eyes, watching
them bench pressing, just like what And he's saying, like,
(38:38):
if you got to do more than three years, then
you know it might not be for you, because that
was the conversation at that time, you.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Know, yeah, that's that looked they were going to draft you.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
This is two thousand and nine, and he's saying, if
you got to do more than three years in college,
might not be for you because the NBA's I is
looking at players as you're too old because the draft
was on upside.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Are you're too old or they gonna keep They're gonna
watch you so much and and dissect your game so much.
They're gonna try to pick out all the negative things
like oh he's good, he does this, but I'm seeing
all his little deficiencies and all the negativities. That's gonna
hurt you, hurt you. You might continue to get better
as a player, it might help your career, but as
(39:32):
far as your draft stock, it's gonna it's you know
what I'm saying, Like it's you know.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Your age really was loud. Francisco Garcia used to be like,
he's such and such and I'm like, damn hoping? What
what what he hoping? Why does it matter? You saying
he was an old rookie? Right, he is an old rookie. Yeah,
but they were like every time it's age age age,
and it's like and Georgia, Chris, Georgie had to deal
(39:58):
with that too. Where you hearing it all right?
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Dog, Like he had a good game, Why does this matter?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
You know? Like as if he's gonna get like an
injuries looming, like you know his injuries about to happen
because he's twenty five.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, like that now you seem like he washed up
at twenty six, Like it's so crazy. They feel like
if you if you that age, you got to come
in right away and put and be a top seven
roll guy on the team, like you don't have a year.
You don't have no time to develop. You got to
come in hit the ground running. Because we got nineteen
year olds. That's we're gonna give two three years to develop.
(40:37):
If you twenty five, just say you washed up.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
You might be done after that first time, that first
little year. So you know that's interesting. Man, I watched
this dude win straight out of Alaska. Mario two thousand
and eight most All Standing Player two tome NBA Champion
with the Miami Heat significant contributor. You know, imagine going
(41:01):
to play le Bron, Chris Bosh and d Wade. You
know how to win, and they yelling at you like
you don't know how to play at all.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Like I give him a lot of credit.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
You got to get credit. Man.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Well, he went through the scrutiny in the media on
his own team and he still showed up, made big
shots time after time, won afraid to let it fly
in big moments. He just had that bravado like he
went scared of him. He always he was one of
those delusional confidence guys in the league, Like he always
felt like he was better than what the masters thought
(41:37):
he was, which which ultimately I think helps a player
in that career, if you if you don't take it
too far.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Would you say you had a sympathetic similarity to him
playing in Brooklyn with a stack Brooklyn team where you
know you can offer way more, but you got to
like sacrifice your game so much.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah yeah, Ben Katie Kyrie.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Kyrie, and you're looking like I know I could do
so much more, but I gotta just do this. I
felt like that was with Charmers, Like when Broun or
somebody was out and Chalmers get to cook. You're like
here a thirty and it's like, yeah, he capable of
doing this. It's just like you gotta shrink your game
so much. And this is how I never played in
(42:20):
the NBA. The best team I've ever played on my
life was like the my Drew League team, right, and
my Jrew League team would be stacked, like you know,
Marcus Williams, Bobby Brown, Lurch Big Red, you know what
I mean. But like we got the chemistry and then
I'll get on the floor. I also play point guard.
Marcus Williams play point guard, Bobby Brown play point guard.
(42:43):
Tray stand in the corner. I need the ball in
my hand because I'm not used to cutting, you're now hitting.
You're putting me in like situations that I'm not successful for,
so I almost look like I don't know how to
play basketball, you know what I mean. So I could
see a Mario Chalmers where Bron's like I'm going to
hold them to bring the ball up, and you relocate
and now you're just kind of dancing like that's the
(43:06):
weirdest spot dog with you.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
But that's when that's where his skill set kind of
helped him out because he could he could translate and
just catching shoot. He can just standing there and catching shoot,
which is hard to do, like without a rhythm. So
you can see you and see him sometimes and not
touch the ball for a while, catch it, hit a shot?
Mad with that, but he'll be okay with But he
would be like mad like he was like he ain't
(43:28):
touched the ball, like man, I still do this, but
you know you can see it all over his face.
But that he never let it hurt his game, you
know what I'm saying. I think.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
And another strange thing when you see that in the NBA,
it's almost like team manager vibes, right, like when they
make a shot, you're like, no, he always could do
this joint Like, it's not like, why are you getting
excited because he made a shot. He's an NBA player,
he's draft he's a starter. He's a starter on like
a very good team. It's just like he's just not
(43:56):
gonna get a chance every once in a while to
do this.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
And and the problem with the league is once you
were in that role, it's hard to get out of it.
Once they put you in that no matter what, once
they put you in that spot up.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Like, I only imagine you playing in the back court
with Luca bro like he gonna find you. But like
also there's gonna be some time where.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
You just like, all right, it's hard for you to
develop your game, but you gotta make it work. If
you want longevity, you gotta make it work. The league
ain't I ain't stopping for nobody, but nobody.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Another player, Wayne Ellen, Wayne Alinton, Most Hot Standing player
in two thousand and nine, small bucket seven hundred and
seventy seven games, six teams over thirteen year career. He
made some bread. But you know at North.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Carolina he was, Yeah, he was that guy in North Carolina,
that god, big time score. And then in the league
he kind of he went through a couple of different
waves of his game, like he would. He was good
right away to start, then he had some lows. Then
he went to the heat and kind of revamped himself. Yep,
came off the bench, became with just the elite volume
shooter because in college he could always shoot, but he
(45:05):
was like a little off the dribble mid range kind
of got something so then he kind of just like
extended to the three point line. And one of my
one of my favorite guys have watched is because of
his smooth his his his footwork was always on point
going into a shot, like yeah, his his pivot work
was nice. He always had his base under him as
a shooter, So I learned I actually learned a lot
(45:26):
from him watching him play, just different ways to get
your shot off, and he had a quick, quick release
to being able to shoot off the move. So one
of those shooters. I definitely took some from his game
and modeled my play after I was As I was
coming up, I used to call.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Him mister February, mister July. He either was gonna always
be on the move or get sign like He's the
guy that like he lasted Honestly, he lasted.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Longer than I thought. Yeah, I thought he's not like
an eight nine year career.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
But he's so invaluable, like to a point of like, yo,
we need shooting, we need shooting, and he'll come up big,
like hey, you know he gave us he made five
threes and you're like what, Okay. You know he ended
up playing for the Lakers. He's playing for these random
teams and he's just looking like dang man, I see
why they traded for him. So like he's a fan
(46:17):
favorite on that part of showing up and making big
shots for them, you know what I mean. So he's
definitely a valuable person. All Right, we're gonna take a
quick break when we come back. We're gonna give our
five greatest March Madness heroes that turn for all right,
(46:47):
dot Man. We talked about a lot of guys that,
you know, we're great college players. Some of their careers
panned out in the NBA, some didn't, but just also
just great you know, to to talk about them and
you know, their illustrious college careers and just mentioned them,
(47:07):
just speaking them up and in a positive way, you
know what I mean. I think that was super cool,
but I'm really interested to hear you're five.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
My five. I'm going number five. I got a Mecca okah. Four,
got to give him some Charlotte love. It was the Bobcats,
but he was number two pick. But yes, solid career.
Obviously you want more from his number two pick, but
I mean that's who he was, so he had a
solid career. Number five, I got a Mecca. Number four,
give me Corey Brewer, okay. Number three I got Joe
(47:39):
kiem Noah, okay. Two is Shane Battier, okay. And then
number one obviously it's consensus. Carmelo Anthony, that's that guy.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Okay, Okay. I'm shocked that Rio didn't make your list.
I'm shot.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I was the bang between him and a Mecca, and
I just went to Mecca because I thought he was.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
He was.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I mean, I thought he was a little bit of
more of a better player in the league. He had
the big moments because he wasn't on the Heat teams.
But I went with a Mecca.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Well, I'm gonna go with two Miami Heat champions at five.
I'm gonna go Rio at four. I'm gonna go Shane
Battier at three. I'm gonna go h I'm gonna go
Corey Brewer at three, at two, I'm gonna go Joe
Kim Noah, and at one Carmelo. Obviously, all these guys
(48:33):
had success, but I like champions But then I also
like over the only thing. If you're a championship contributor
or an All Star, you get a priority spot on
my list. But if you're an individual success like an
All Star, consist like just constantly killing the league and
(48:55):
just ran into some tough battles, you're probably gonna get
placed hired than.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
The team my five. I went more individual, Yeah, I
went more yeah because a lot of I ain't. I
didn't look at a situation based yeah, because I mean player.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, and that and that and that's and that's cool
and that in that way, and that's that's rightful. So
we had a lot of Bobcats on there, So that's
kind of kind of funny when you think about it.
You know, a couple of guys could have been on
there for sure. All Right, we're gonna take another quick
break and we're gonna do Born in the Wrong Era.
I think this one's gonna be really good because there's
a lot of guys that just were drafted and given
(49:29):
a bad you know, bad hand off off rip, and
I think that if they were playing in today's game,
they were better. All right, guy, we gave us five.
(49:54):
If I want to start and kick this off with
more than the wrong era, I'm going to say Jan Dixon.
I think Wan Dixon would be a decent player. I
don't think he'd be an All Star, but I think
that he would have a longer career than what he
had in his you know, his actual career. He would
benefit for it. I think he would be a starter
(50:16):
in this league and also just contribute to to to
the game and in a way that would be valued
more than how how his professional career went. And probably
in the same success of Maryland, you know what I
mean when he was bump. When he was bumping, he
would be an intricate of a playoff team or maybe
even a championship team.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, this is going through this list. It's crazy because
it's the two thousands. I don't seem that long ago,
but it's like a whole different age of hoops. This
is com of these names. The way the league was played,
the way college was played, and that's why IM gonna
go with Sean May for my born in the wrong
era because I think in today's day he could have
He could shoot the mini so well. I think he
(50:58):
could have extended that to the three one line if
he really worked at it and up this volume. Obviously
he would have had to for him to play in
the days that he would have had to get more mobile.
I mean he always we always yeah he had like
health issues, but like weight issues, like he had to
keep his weight down and it took a lot of work.
If he could have did that, he could have been
highly successful in today's league just because of his shooting ability,
(51:19):
is skill level passing. Could have been one of those
undersized bigs that we'd like to talk about on here
that would thrive in today's game. So I always thought
Sean May was just a smooth he had that that
jump or a smooth guy on the perimeter and in
the block. In college, you could do both, So I
think he could have he could have developed well in
today's league.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. I don't I don't
want to call him ic type, you know what I mean?
Because of doing that, we're doing that for sure, for sure,
for sure allright, too much dip on the chip. All right, man,
this has been a great episode. Man, thanks for sticking
with us. Where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (52:01):
As Doc Curry hit me up on threads X all
over man, just chop it up, yeah man.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Also on thread to act Trey on Instagram as well
at travaon on X. Be sure to hit up the
Act the Goat pod. We're loving the remarks. I got
some love on my top five the other day. Shouts
to barn Nune. Also, somebody said that your list was valid,
so I think that's cool. A lot of people still
(52:29):
giving me slack for leaving out certain players. I love it.
Keep them coming and we'll be will be continue to
push this conversation as we continue to have you know,
the pod going all right for seth for.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Me, Goat, Goat.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
This has been a Unanimous Media original. Goat was produced
by iHeart podcast and Unanimous Media. It was hosted by
me Edwards and step Kirk. Executive produced by Stephen Curry
and Eric Katon. Co executive producer Klena Maria Cutting. The
executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Sean Titon and Jason Hinglish.
(53:13):
This series was produced by Derek Jennings and Peter Kupchen,
co producer Kurt Reddy. Original music by Jesse Woodard. Special
thanks to Stephen Curry and Will Pearson. Got is a
production of Unanimous Media and iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
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