A Preventable Tragedy

Criminal defense attorney Michael Foote joins The Knife to discuss the murder trial of Bricen Rivers. In July of 2024, 22-year-old Lauren Johansen was found dead in the trunk of her own car. Her ex-boyfriend, Bricen Rivers, is now charged with capital murder. Lauren’s father is fighting to change the system that ignored the warning signs and allowed Rivers to be released on bail. We speak with Michael Foote about the case and how the criminal justice system failed to protect Lauren.

Listen to Michael Foote’s podcast, Brief Recess, wherever you get your podcasts.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. The

(00:42):
claims and opinions in this podcast are those of the
speaker and do not necessarily represent The Knife or Exactly
Right Media.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
If I screw up sometimes in court, like it can
be life and death for a client. I have clients
who are up for deportation where if they do get deported,
they will die.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Welcome to the Knife. I'm Hannah Smith, I'm Patia Eaton. So, Hannah,
you were out of town when we ended up recording this,
but you and I have talked about this case a
bit over the last year, and that is the murder
of Lauren Johansson, whose ex boyfriend Bryson Rivers is currently
charged with capital murder. So in the studio with you

(01:35):
for this episode is Michael Foot, whose new show Brief
Recess is part of the Exactly Right Media Network. He's
an attorney who was really able to walk you through
all of the legal happenings in this case. He talks
about the questionable decision making by a Tennessee judge, multiple
communication gaps between the clerk and the bonding agencies, and

(01:58):
how it all kind of led to Bryson rivers release
because had he not been released, Lauren would very well
still be here. Yeah, so that's a really pivotal thing
that happened. I just want to say I love listening
to this episode, excited for people to hear it. In
the beginning, Paytia and Michael chat for a bit about
Michael's career and then they get into these case details.

(02:21):
Let's get into it. Welcome to the Knife. I'm Patia
Eaton and Hannah is out this week, but she will
be back. And today I'm in the studio with our
guest attorney, Michael Foot.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Hi, thank you. Yeah, I know Hannah's out, and she's out,
but she was. They lowered me in on why. I'm
sure I am. I'm excited to join. I love well.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
We're so happy to have you. Because the case that
we're going to be discussing today, the legal side of
it is so I mean maybe not to some people,
but to me, like very complex, multilayer and important.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
So called a criminal defense lawyer, and I came real fast,
I'm ready to talk. I've actually I've worked on both
sides of the aisles. So I've been a criminal defense
attorney for many years, and I do a lot of
work with immigration law. But I also a lot of
people don't know this. I have a dark past working
for a prosecutor's office.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
I worked for the New Orleans Parish, the Orleans Parish Prosecution. Wow,
so I was there. I went to law school at Tulane.
So I lived in New Orleans for many years, and
it's very much the crime capital of America. And a
lot of what happens in New Orleans is that if
you want to work in criminal law, you go to
New Orleans because there's so much crime and the city's

(03:45):
so underfunded that the work that you get as a
junior lawyer as a law student is so voluminous. You
get your hands on murder trials at the age of
twenty three, You get to work with survivors, right, You
get to work on these really really complicated lawsuits right
out the gates. So even like I was going to

(04:06):
school down south there, but there were a lot of
people who like went to Ivy League schools in the
Northeast who moved to New Orleans because they wanted to
learn criminal law. And if you're working in New York
City as a criminal defense attorney right out of law school,
it's going to take a decade before you get your
hands on a really complicated lawsuits. It was freaking wild.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, that sounds so intense. I can only imagine what
it would be like if you're on trial for murder and.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
A twenty three year OLDH my god, no, right, yes,
I like it really is like that. Like my boss
at the prosecutor's office was probably twenty seven, Like she
was in charge of me, and it's like, I don't know,
I mean, I'm sure you noticed this as you sort
of talking to so many people on this show. Like
the thing about working and criminal law, the thing about

(04:52):
like getting into that machine is it's like it's a
really dark place, right, Like a lot of lost, damaged
people find it as a profession, like myself included. I've
been very open about this on my show. I host
a show Brief Recess on Exactly the Right Network. It
airs November thirteenth.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
So check it out.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Check it out please everywhere you get podcasts and on YouTube.
But I was very much one of those people, especially
at that age, like I was struggling really with an
abusive relationship with alcohol. I was having some really complicated
personal relationships as a gay man, and it was a
really really dark time in my life, just like struggling
with depression and anxiety. I talked a little bit about

(05:34):
this with Georgia the other day on My Favorite Murder
about just like going through significant depression, right and like
tools that we use. But at that time, it was
a great place for me to be in criminal court.
It was where I needed to be, right. It's sort
of this place where the lost souls of the world
end up. You're in this moment with people when their

(05:56):
entire life is falling apart, or this extreme crisis, or
you're in this moment when people are going through the
worst possible moment of their life, and as someone who
has gone through those moments, right, you get to be
there for someone in that moment, knowing no one was
there for you and yours.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Right. Yeah, it's so purposeful, yes, even though it's probably
like there's such a darkness to it in your day
to day totally. I mean even working in true crime,
like I am a consumer of true crime content, but
even me, sometimes I have to take a moment and
kind of you know, if I'm interviewing someone and that's
really emotive or like like, this isn't my story. I

(06:36):
just have to hold it together. But it's not always you.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Want to know what I do. I had an acropond
turist teach me this. We'll get into the story in
a minute. But when I'm interviewing someone, I do a
lot of victim work and advocacy for migrants. What's happening
to immigrants in America right now is absolutely inasing. So
I'm hearing really tragic, horrific stories of things that happen
to people in their home country and why they came
here and knowing, you know, looking at the pike of

(07:00):
what could possibly happen if they are to ported. So
an acupunctors taught me this. It's like a little bit
hippy toppy bullshit, but you take a finger and you
point it at the floor when someone's sort of trauma sharing, okay,
And it's sort of like an antenna, okay, just like
energetic antenna where whatever you're sort of like receiving, you're
sort of saying, like let it flow through you and

(07:20):
go back to the earth.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Okay, Right, So you're storing all of that up because.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
I find I find like I do a lot of
intake work, Like I would do work with like nonprofits
and do intake for them and sort of assess if
someone had a really strong immigration case and I was
absorting a lot.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Of it, probably to like accurately assess those situations, you
have to be this vessel. This is like clearheaded emotional to.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
You and Hannah as well of just like when you're
talking to victims and survivors, like when I'm prepping a
victim for the witness stand or when I'm prepping a
witness you kind of have to go through it with
them in order especially to get like the testimony you
need to win that suit. So I gotta I've been there.
I smell what you're stuffing them.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
You totally understand. Yeah. So the case that we're going
to be talking about today is centered around the murder
of Lauren Porter Johansson, and that murder is alleged to
have been committed by her on again, off again boyfriend
Bryce and Rivers. But I'll just start from the beginning

(08:23):
because it's such a layered story, and I know that
you're going to have so much insight into not only
how the justice system is operating here, but also how
in domestic violence situations, how do we protect people and
prevent things like this? Yeah. Yeah, So Lauren Johansson was
born on October thirty of two thousand and one. She's

(08:45):
from Ocean Springs, Mississippi. She's raised in a loving family
with very supportive parents shed siblings. When Lauren got to
high school, you know, I think, like most high school girls,
she began dating and her boyfriend was a football player.
He went to a neighboring high school, and her boyfriend's
name at this time is Bryson Rivers. Okay, So their

(09:06):
relationship even in high school was volatile, very you know,
breaking up, getting back together, which can be typical of
if we've all been there. Yeah, but theirs was very explosive.
But you know, Lauren could kind of see beyond this,
and she had big plans for her life, and when
it was time to go off to college, she made

(09:29):
the decision to cut things off with Bryson Rivers and
she broke up with him, and it seemed like the
further she got from him and their relationship, the more
she really thrived.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Of course, Yeah, I mean, you're in an abusive relationship.
I've been there where, especially when I was working for
the Prosecutor's office in New Orleans, I was in one
of those relationships where it was really emotionally codependent in
an unhealthy way. And the further you get away from
that person's orbit, the healthier and happier you kind of.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Are totally in some cases in abusive relationships, which becomes
the case in Laurence. That person, the further you do
get from their orbit, the more they sort of try
to like exert control.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yes, yes, it's never about like loving that person, It's
always about control. I think people read DV cases or
they hear about them and it's like, wow, could you
ever why wouldn't you? And it's like that's such like
a weird way to frame it, or just like an
inaccurate way to frame it totally, because it's like, oh,
why wouldn't you leave him? It's like you don't understand
like what that person's going through. Like when I was

(10:31):
in like emotionally abusive relationships, I never got physical, but
it was definitely like I saw similarities in this case
to what I've been through, and it was very much like, oh,
I know exactly why this person didn't leave, Like you
need that in a way, it's an addiction kind of
for me at least, and I'm not speaking for all
DV survivors here.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, but it's important to note, like it's not about
someone's level of intelligence. It doesn't always mean they don't
have a supportive family. It's like these abusers are really
relentless and want to find their way back in and.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
It's often subversive. It's also it's very very subtle sometimes.
I mean I've worked with clients who were survivors and
it was like you would never know. It was like
the perfect wealthy family, socio economic class, like you would
just never know. It's incredible.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, and Lauren, you know, she was no exception. As
she got further away from Bryson rivers, she went off
to college. She went to University of Southern Mississippi, studied nursing.
She seemed to be thriving. She was a diligent student,
made the Deans List, National Honor Society.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
But Bryson never stopped pursuing this relationship, and eventually, at
some point Lauren let him back into her life. You know,
we've talked about like how common this is. You can
look at something from the outside and it can feel
so clear, like why would you go back to this person,
But it's so layered. And they were college age. I

(12:02):
don't know that Bryson was even going to.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
School, but of course when I was college age, come on,
you don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Which way is up. It's like you're so young, of
so much life ahead of you, but you don't have
obviously as much life experience to draw from. And so
eventually Lauren and Bryson get back together, and in December
of twenty twenty three, they travel from their home state
of Mississippi where they're both from to Tennessee to the
Nashville area for a vacation. Okay, so this is in

(12:29):
December of twenty twenty three. They're both in their early twenties.
I think at the time Lauren is twenty one or
twenty two. Bryson's maybe a year older. So after a
night out, you know, they're drinking, Bryson accuses Lauren maybe
cheating on him, or he's angry.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
He's talking bartender, talking to the bartender.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, like, oh my gosh. Yeah, so he gets really angry.
They leave the bar. This argument ensues and they get
into their rental car. I don't know if Bryson forces
her into the car, but they both get into the
car and he starts driving away. He takes her phone
at some point, and he's becoming violent. Eventually pulls over

(13:09):
and starts brutally attacking Lauren.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, and he isolated her. He took her out of public,
put her in a car, took away the phone, like
he really did, isolate her away from anyone who could
have possibly intervened.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Which tells me he knows this is unacceptable.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
It's premeditated, right, It's something we do with all the time,
especially in these types of cases. It's like a horror film, right,
Like we go to the cabin in the woods, the
lights go out, the electricity goes out in the phone service,
and that is when the horror sort of occurs. So
that is like a very common trope, especially in dB
cases and murder cases. It is a very common theme
where we see abusers isolating a person, taking away their

(13:48):
ability to spend money or their physical agency. It is
very common and it comes up all the time. This
was extreme and happened in an instant, oftentimes over many years. Yeah,
and it's just this person's name is on the deed
of the house, or oh, just this person has access
to this one bank account, or oh you should quit

(14:10):
your job, or you shouldn't talk to that friend anymore,
or oh your mom's being really toxic, maybe cut off
that relationship. And it's slowly right, that's by a thousand
paper cuts.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, you know, I don't know how long they had
been back together when this happened, but they had separated
before this, and her family was very aware that he
was no good. Yeah, and that had to have just
been like an impossible situation for them, because I'm sure
you wouldn't want to cut off contact by saying I'm
not gonna condone this, but you also would want to say, like,

(14:43):
this is unsafe. I mean, I don't know what was said,
but from everything I read, it seems like her family
was just like the most loving, supportive family, and you know, and.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
It's one of those things where it's like it's families
are often in this very precarious situation where it's like,
if we cut off the relationship with the victim that,
or if we put down to firm of a foot,
or if we have ours too strongly opinionated, we might
lose access altogether to this person, and then we won't
be able to advocate and help exactly.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
It's a very very difficult line to walk. And so
they leave this bar. This is in December twenty twenty three.
They leave this bar, he attacks her. He brings her
to another location, this parking lot, and we learn later
that anytime a car passes by, he covers her mouth,
that she can't scream for help. He has a gun
with him that he's hitting her with. I mean, it

(15:35):
is a violent, violent attack, and at some point, really miraculously,
Lauren's able to call her parents during the attack.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yes, yeah, and they it's insane that she was able
to do that. That's incredible.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's incredible. And you know, her parents were back in Mississippi.
They at this point know Bryson Rivers is not someone
that she's safe with. So I'm sure they were already concerned,
but they hear that she's being attacked by him, and
so they're frantically trying to get her help and they
have the Life three sixty app okay, and so they
were able to from her phone. Yeah, so from her

(16:11):
phone data, her Life three sixty app telling them her location.
They were able to get local authorities to get there
and help her. Which it's amazing that that happened, because
how do you I can imagine getting a call from
my daughter's states away of course, yeah, and being like,
how do I help your Yeah, So they were able

(16:31):
to get local authorities on the scene.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
And those calls are often critical evidence at trial. So
those are things that like, I've used nine on one
calls all the time when I worked for the DA's
office in New Orleans. That was my job was to
prep the nine one one phone operators for the witness stand.
We was subpoena the person who answered the phone, wow,
and have them testify. Okay, so those calls are that

(16:53):
that is going to come up at trial, because I
know we're not a trial yet, for.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Sure it will come up. Well, her parents call and
then the police dispatch get there and I think Bryson
is running from the car when they arrive, or they
capture him right away or maybe a few hours.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
It's unclear. There was like a scuffle, there was some
sort of dust up because I think his mugshot he
is he's bloodied, he has marks on his.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Guys, Lauren's blood all over him.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Oh is that what that was?

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, Yeah, so he has Lauren's blood all over him
when the police capture him, and you know, there's blood
all over the interior of the car, there's blood on
the gun, there's blood on bryson rivers. I mean, this
was a brutal attack and Lauren is severely injured. She
has to recover in the.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Hawsheness in the hospital for a few days. And this
is when I was reading this, I was like, this
is a very interesting case because we don't often have
that physical evidence in dB cases, and they oftentimes get dropped.
So this is critical physical evidence. Physical evidence is always
going to be better than testimony because we can have
experts testify to it. We can call a blood splatter expert,
we can call the lab tech, we can call like

(17:59):
all sorts of people who can come and testify. It's
sort of a HEAs that she said in any other
situation if we don't have that physical evidence. So seeing
this and hearing that, knowing there was a phone call,
knowing that there was bodycam footage I think from the police,
and having that DNA evidence is just like it's huge, extraordinary,
like slam dunk. If I'm that defense attorney, we are

(18:19):
playing this out big time. We are taking the play
whatever the first offer is.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, because the police arrest Bryson Rivers and he's charged
with aggravated kidnapping, aggravated stocking, coercion of a witness. Yes, Lauren,
as we said, recovers in the hospital. Well, Lauren's father
is a surgeon. Yes, so he catalogs her injuries. She's
over one hundred was hit over one hundred times.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
And so they did everything they could do to show
the court this is a very dangerous person who will
no doubt do this again. Here is a family who
did everything that they could do to protect their daughter
right and ultimately she was not protected. And so Bryson's
charge aggravated kidnapping aggravata is talking coercion of a witness.

(19:05):
And his bond is set two hundred and fifty one
thousand dollars and he's unable to post this bond. Because
bond plays such a big role in this, can you
talk a little bit about actually.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Oh my god, bond is a fucking wild in America,
it's absolutely on him. So bail bondsmen are effectively a
financial institution that underwrites a bond so that someone can
get released when they don't have the money. So they're
like the loan company, so they have a lean on
your bond. Judges determine bond amounts and that is critical

(19:41):
in this case. Here. There are sentencing guidelines. There are
bond guidelines based off the severity of the crime. So
in Tennessee, the severity of the crime was equal to
two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and one dollar. Judges
have discretion when determining what the bond is. However, once
a defendant is sort of given a bond amount. Most

(20:01):
people don't have a quarter million dollars sitting at a
bank account, so they go to a bail bondsman and
they act as a financial institution. That institution it's usually
near the courthouse. It's usually run. I don't want to
like like, I don't want to like crochet it all
bail bondsmen in America. But you're not going to a

(20:22):
city bank, You're not going to a Bank of America
to get one of these. This is like a bond
company that is like a loan service, and it's oftentimes
high rates, oftentimes owned by one individual. And how it
works is a bail bondsman under rights will sort of
pay that money to the court. The defendant will be
on the hook, and that ensures that if that person

(20:45):
flees or violates the terms of their bond, the bail
bondsman is on the hook with the court. So you're
sort of like this stand in for them, and so you're.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Then incentivized to make sure that these people that you're
signing off on just do as they're told when they're released,
because their charges are still pending.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
And that is where we get this sort of exciting
concept of the bounty hunter, right that with this all over.
We see it all over film and television. These like
you know, badasses, they're and ride motorcycles and like round
up the bad guys. They usually work for bondsmen because
bail bond companies don't have a sort of authority. They're

(21:27):
not government agencies. These are private entities. And because they're
usually like some guy near the courthouse. Yeah, they themselves
are underwritten by insurance companies, so the insurance companies will
have a stake. So it is very much like this
three card shuffle. It's kind of like this little bit
of a gamble, but it's quite lucrative for a lot

(21:47):
of people. I don't want to like shit on the
industry of bondsmen. I know it is a really fucked
up situation in this case, but they serve like a
vital force in the criminal law community because you weren't
guilty until we prove it in court, right, right, So
we presume innocence in America for now, and we decide

(22:08):
that we say that you know, if you're accused of
a DEWI we have to prove it before you are
actually held accountable for it. With sentencing so we're not
just going to throw you in jail until that happens.
And that's where the concept of bond comes up.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, like in theory, this really important system that allows
people who are innocent to not be sitting in jail
till their trial happens.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
And it happens all the fucking time. But I go right, right,
I've worked on cases where the prosecutors are so over
zealous and what the charges are and then those witnesses
fall through more than the police lose the evidence, and
then the person's released and the charges get dropped. It
happens all the time. So bond is really important. I mean,
I work in New York City and so we have

(22:52):
different you know, bond laws there, but just speaking generally
in America, bond is really important because it can take
you years to get to trial.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, it's really important. And it's for the same reason,
really important that the bonding company and we'll get into
the GPS tracking communicate with the court clearly to make
sure everyone's on the same page. And that is where
this case really I think takes I mean, obviously from

(23:23):
the very beginning, this is a terrible case, but.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
We failed the victims of society and as government institutions.
I mean, this is really one where I've seen some
weird and crazy situations come up with bondsmen and judges
and weird rulings or but in this case, basically the
judge decided that not only should his bond be lowered,
but that he should be bonded out. And he went

(23:47):
and got a bond, and the bond had terms where
he could not travel, which is very cool.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Oh yeah, and I want to dig into that because
you know, so his original bond is said at two
hundred and fifty one thousand dollars and he can't make
this bond. He can't pay the small amount to the
bill company, not small amount, but the smaller amount to
even have them put fifty thousands. So they advocate, you
need to lower this bond. His public defender says, you

(24:13):
need to lower the bond. You can't make the bond. Well,
Lauren's dad goes to these hearings and he says, if
you let Bryson Rivers out, he will kill my daughter.
Like he is dangerous. I mean, I guess I don't
have the exact quote in front of me, but it
is very close to that. He lays it all out.
This is a violent person. He has attacked her more

(24:34):
than once. I think it was like five or six times.
By this point, he details Lauren's injuries. I mean, he
really makes a strong case for why this bond needs
to stay really high because this is a very dangerous person.

(24:57):
So Judge Ryl. Blackburn is the judge who ends up
deciding whether or not to lower this bond. She has
provided with several pieces of evidence to base this decision
off of which shockingly includes body camera footage of this
December twenty twenty three attack where Lauren is seen in
the car pounding on the window for help.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
I mean, is it's really violent, it's brutal eye. I mean,
I would really hate to be the lawyer on this
case cause that's my gos A real loser.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah. And she also has given audio of a call
that Bryson Rivers made to Lauren from jail where he
asked her to just deny everything, which he's not supposed
to have.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Any contact with my job for the DA's office. In
addition to whatever I said earlier, I forget what it
was my job for the Prosecutor's office when I was
twenty three was. I would sit there all day with
little earbuds in like this, and I would listen to
phone calls from jail. All of those calls are fucking recorded,

(25:58):
and they tell you and you pick up the phone
and someone is listening. It's me at twenty three, full
head of hair listening to what you're saying. We would
listen because people would oftentimes call their friend to be like, Hey,
when I get bonded out, I want to skip town
and go to Mexico. So okay, I would be listening
for that, and I would have to like nark on.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
The pain, like Yson wants to go to Mexico.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
And I would have to write to my boss and
be like, hey, the defendants trying to flee. You have
to bring this to the judge and then we would
get the bond denied using that evidence.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
And that is a good thing because you can see
that person's intentions. And so she's given this phone call,
Bryson calling Lauren and saying, you know, deny everything. That's
so brazen, like you just attacked this person. You know
that you've been arrested on really serious charges. And the
judge also has someone present from the Metro Nashville Police

(26:48):
Department Domestic Violence Unit comes in and testifies that Lauren
said that well Bryson was beating her, he would cover
her mouth when that car would pass by. So it's
not just you know, yeah, Lauren's dad saying please don't
release him. This is like hard evidence that she's being
provided with to base this decision off of, and she
ends up deciding to lower his bill by one hundred

(27:10):
thousand dollars.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
I have to be careful here because I'll get in
trouble with the Bar Association if I disparage courts and judges.
But I have seen some really strange decisions made. We
don't know what was brought to her chambers, but I
will say that, like, based off what we can see
and the fact pattern that I was given, and the
accounts and the articles that have been written, this is
an unusual decision for a judge to lower bond based

(27:32):
off this evidence. I've seen judges maintain bond most of
the time in light of the evidence. So it was
just like kind of like a little quote. I was like,
this is unusual when I read this, because judges are
usually pretty quick to leave bond where it is, especially
because we have this robust bondsman business in America where
you can get bonded out on a two million dollar

(27:53):
bond if you mean you don't pay.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Ten to fifteen percent. And so it's like, okay, we'll
go and do that.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Great.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
So she ends up lowering his bond to one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars, but securing this bond still takes
some time, and Bryson remains in custody for a couple
more months after his bond is lowered, and his mother
is like calling all of these bonding companies trying to
do this and figure out the one hundred and fifty

(28:19):
and she eventually finds two different bonding companies to each
sign for like seventy five thousand dollars.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Oh god. And so I just hate this so much
because I'm thinking, like, yeah, we say this all the
time on my show. What's going on in the home.
What's going on in the home where this mom is
like helping her son and there's so much evidence that
he's an abuser. Like this is just so disturbing to
me because it's really upsetting. It just it's.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Surprising because it's like if you're a lover moms. Right,
it's like there's this primal urge. Probably, I mean, my
kid's a toddler, but like, if you're wild is in trouble,
I'm sure there is an innate sense of wanting to
help them. However, are you even protecting your child? Oh

(29:07):
my god, if you know they're a danger to themselves
and others.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, it's just extraordinary that she's trying to help bond
him out, and.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh and it gets so much worse. So they end
up posting the bond, and he's assigned a probation officer
at this point, and he's made aware of his release conditions.
So the District Attorney's office was also supposed to receive
the addresses where Bryson could not be, which would have,
of course included Lawrence address. Okay, So Bryson's release conditions

(29:39):
are that he needs to stay in Davidson County, which
is in Tennessee. And you know he's from Mississippi. They
were just visiting Tennessee. So he gives his attorney an
address of where he can supposedly reside after his release.
It's located in Nashville, I think, but it's in Davidson County.
He is supposed to wear a GPS tracking monitor monitor.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, we see this. I mean these are notorious in
society and in pop culture. We see them on you know,
on the deelv walking at fashion Week, we see them
on like. Yeah, the terms of his release, like having
to stay in one place is like very common. I
think it's in Tennessee. Unless it's a capital crime, you're
eligible for bond.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
And a capital crime is just literally first degree murder,
premeditated murder. Wow. Yeah. So that is wild that people
are available for run. And it also speaks a little
bit to like that state's sort of institutionalized prison system, right.
I mean I talk about this a lot on MYSHO,
where it's like we are the incarceration capital of the world,

(30:40):
and oftentimes states like Tennessee, these red states, it's an industry.
It is a business. So the fact that they have
those sort of bond structures speaks to the government in Tennessee.
It speaks to what the legislature is willing to allow. Yeah,
that would never fly in New York.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well good, well, okay, backing up a little bit, So
he has to stay Davidson County, where he's not from.
He was visiting for Mississippi, gives his lawyer this address
that he is supposedly able to go stay at because
he has to be present for hearings and things like that.
He's not supposed to have any contact with the victim Lauren.
Obviously he cannot travel back to Mississippi. And how they

(31:24):
are planning to enforce us is this GPS tracking monitor,
which of course he can leave with the undrawn, but
it's supposed to alert people of course.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah. Usually it's like a private company that manages these,
where they have some sort of connection to the government.
You get the sense from this case because it failed
in this situation. I mean he fled, he left, and
he ultimately went and lurdered the victim.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Lauren's life was a safe. Your safety was a stafe.
And part of the rules around his release is that
he is not to be released after four pm because
GPS Tracking Solutions, where he was spo to have this
monitor of figs yes to his ankle, was closed it
for so he was released at four or five pm.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Oh my god, this is one of those situations. This
is like a Namer situation for me. I would these
keep me up at night? These because it is It's
like that I had a client who was deported because
the package like arrived at the immigration office like five
minutes late, and it was like, can you there was
one of these It's one of these situations like these

(32:29):
are the things that just make me so stressed as
an attorney. It's like that when these deadlines are deadlines,
it's another real critical life and death ramifications.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, it's unbelievable that this happened. And he knows that
he is supposed to have this tracking hunter. He has
to see his release conditions before being released. He's made
aware of them. So he goes to another place to

(33:01):
have his inkle monitor installed installed right, and the person
who installs it doesn't have a copy of these release conditions,
so she takes his word for what he says, which
is that he can totally leave and it's okay, and
she puts the inkle monitor on, and what does he do.

(33:22):
He immediately heads from Mississippi and here is where his mother,
which in a separate case which we'll get into, it
alleges that she sent that bonding company where he went
to have his inkle monitor fixed, because the inkle monitoring
person was also working at the bonding company. Or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
You get the sense that this is like the tiniest
little town and like the guy who runs the post
office is also like the gym teacher. It just should
have said. And it's also like, I mean, this was
the moment in the case where I was like, the
system is not set up to protect victims, right, udicial
system fails victims all the time. And I'm saying that

(34:03):
as a criminal defense attorney, right, Like I am acutely
aware of like the hypocrisy of some of my statements
here today, Like this is a situation that no one
should have been in, and oftentimes the onus is placed
upon domestic violence victims to protect themselves. You talked about
it a lot in this case. Her dad documented everything
and was like really organized, Like there is totally a

(34:24):
world where if he didn't do that, he would have
been bonded out for way less or their bond wouldn't
have been set very high.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
So, oh, she was just catastrophically failed. For this woman
who installs this inkle monitor, you know, she's taken his
word for it. He tells her, I can travel, it's fine.
So the GPS alert that is supposed to alert if
he leaves the county. It's not set up, so he
immediately of course leaves. And now a little bit of

(34:52):
background on this person who installed the inkle monitor. It
comes out later that she was working three jobs. She
had full time job, I believe with Child and Family services,
and then two part time jobs, one of which was
this newly formed inkle monitoring service.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
I know this is one of these situations where, like
I've known this for a long time, that like the
criminal justice system is held together with like paper clips
and bubble gums, and they are very real people. It's
like when the curtain is pulled back and Wizard of
Oz and it's just like some guy that is what
a lot of this is held together by. And there
are a lot of gaps, and it's underfunded, and we

(35:34):
come to this place to train get justice and.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
It is and it's like want someone's been murdered.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Exactly, Yeah, how do we actually, yeah, what do we
do with this? Right?

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Because this is a violent abuser and he was taken
at his word and so he of course immediately heads
from Mississippi because his mother had sent one hundred and
thirty dollars or this is what a lawsuit that we're
gonna talk about leader. A Ledge is sent one hundred
and thirty dollars to this bonding company and says, this
is a bus ticket for him to come to Mississippi. Insane, crazy, sane.

(36:08):
And so he goes and gets this inkle monitor installed,
and then something happens where they realize you need the
alert system set up, and so they say come on
back in. So he comes back in and I think
this happens on June twenty ninth. He returns to get
a new monitor or something fixed with this monitor, and

(36:31):
so he gets this new inkle monitor system going, and
he leaves again and he heads to Mississippi and now
his Inkle monitor, even though this alert system wasn't set up,
it does show the monitoring service that the battery is
running out. And so he gets a call from this
person who installed the inkle monitor or this company and

(36:54):
they say, look, you're down to six percent. You need
to charge your monitoritor and apparently he us and then
they get a call from him hours later, like maybe
around midnight, and he says that he's not going to
make it to his hearing tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
I'm sorry. This stress me crazy because I have clients
who arrive a minute late to the hearing and are
put in prison.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's mind boggling. And in the week prior, you know,
when he had been released, a call was made to
Lauren's father saying that Bryson was going to be released.
But he doesn't get that call. He gets a message
and he listens to it like three days later or something, which.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Like who leaves voicemails anymoremails? I guess someone has some
of them my voicemail. I hope it's not important because
I'm not listening to it.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
On the verge of one hundred percent because I'm but
I mean, if it's an unknown number, you're not going
to answer. And you would think if it's something as
important as this violent offender leaving town violating his release terms,
you think someone's banging on.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Your door to yeah, and not just like as not
just a.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Phone call, oh, due diligence, We did our phone calls.
Like that's not enough. Of course, people are living their lives.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
And that is not the norm, by the way. I mean,
it usually is like there's a notice that goes to
the local precinct. Usually if that happens, like there's there
are usually systems in place like that is why this
is such an extreme case to be talking about, like
this is so many failures where it's like you couldn't
even write this right, it's so bad.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
And so then he returns to Mississippi, and by the
time Lauren's father realizes that Bryson has been released and
he's violated the terms of his release, he I think,
calls Lauren's sibling who maybe was living with her at
the time. They don't know where Lauren is, and so
he fills a missing person's report and that happens very quickly,

(38:55):
and then.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Quick psa missing person reports. Please file them when you
notice the person's missing. There is this like huge misinformation
campaign that you have to wait forty eight hours. You
don't file it immediately when you notice it, and if
they're giving you shit about it, be like I don't
care file it anyway. This is like the police work
for you. You pay their wages, your tax dollars go

(39:18):
to support their entire institution, demand that they file a
missing person's report and start looking and like take it
upon yourself because we see the system fail people all
the time, like get on the social media. It's like
now is the time to post.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Right, So it sounds like he files this missing person's
report for Lauren the very next morning. Yeah, but I
just want to like recap really quick, how fast all
of this is happening. So June twenty fourth, twenty twenty four,
Bryson Rivers is released on bond. So on June twenty seventh,
the bonding company is already having issues with the inkle

(39:53):
monitor that was initially installed on Bryson Rivers. They ask
him to return so that they can fix it, and
by June twenty eight, according to a lawsuit that's now
filed against this bonding company, by June twenty eighth, they
were aware that he was violating the conditions of his
bond by traveling to Mississippi, which he had done by
bus immediately after he was released. So June twenty ninth,

(40:17):
Bryson Rivers returned to the bonding agency and I saw
on news Channel five in Nashville that they were provided
a photo of Bryson coming back to the bonding agency,
and I believe it's from a security camera, and he
arrives in Lauren's car, and it is believed that Lauren
was in the passenger seat in that moment. On June

(40:39):
twenty ninth. So if that's all correct, then that means
Bryson Rivers, immediately after being released, took a bus to Mississippi,
went to Lawrence Place, got her and her car, and
drove back to Nashville, and then went into the bonding
agency while presumably she's sitting out front in her own
car while he gets his inkle monitor fixed. By the

(41:01):
time that Lauren's father files this missing person's report, Lauren
has likely already been killed. And so they were able
to track Lauren's vehicle with its on Star system, and
it's located now back in Mississippi at a cemetery. Her
body is in the trunk, wrapped in like towels and

(41:22):
trash bags, and Bryson Rivers flees the vehicle when police
show up. So he was there, she was still there,
and then he's captured in the woods. I read that
he made a phone call to his brother admitting that
he had killed her. I mean, he has not been
convicted of her murder, but he's now been charged with

(41:43):
capital murder.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
These are the facts being laid out at.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Trial and Lance Lauren's father, I cannot fathom the pain
to lose a child, or lose anyone you love in
this way. I mean, it's so horrific, and she had
her entire life ahead of her. I mean, I cannot
imagine the pain that this family is feeling. And he
has gone out there and spoken about the failure here

(42:10):
and how his daughter was not protected and with such
composure as no one owns he's a good day. No
one owes anyone anything when you suffer.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
A loss like that, But nobody's really taken the opportunity
to be like a victim's advocate. And everything he did,
like through this case is just like extraordinarily supportive. It's
just like yeah, just like documenting it and just reading it,
I was like, Wow, this is like Dad of the
Year just being yeah, awesome.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
He did everything I think he could have done. I mean,
by that time, your child is an adult, Like you
don't get to just like like lock them in their
room if you're scared for their safety. So Bryson Rivers
has now been charged with capital murder, where he is
back in custody. His trial right now is scheduled for
twenty twenty six, and.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Finally apital crime where he won't be eligible for bonds. Finally,
he's now finally charged with a capital crime.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Right, it's like just awful that it had to come
to that. And so prosecutors have said that they intend
to seek the death penalty. And his trial was originally
set for late twenty twenty five and now has been
set for March third, twenty twenty six. His courtroom behavior
has been just awful. He has been smiling and waving

(43:29):
and bowing and seemingly like very proud of what he's done.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
I mean, it's just yeah, it's sick.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
It's sick. And so that is happening in twenty twenty six.
But Lance Johansson has filed a lawsuit. The dad, the dad,
Lauren's dad has filed a lawsuit.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
I read the whole suit and like, the suit is
very biased, right, It's it's a plaintiff. So in civil court,
whoever's decided to bring the suit is the plaintiff. So
he is the plaintiff in this case, and he's suing
the monitoring company. He is suing the person who installed
the monitor on the ankle. He went down the list.
I think there's like fifteen defendants in this lawsuit. And

(44:08):
the reason why I say it's like a very biasuit
is because this is the initial complaint. So this is
you file an initial complaint in civil court saying this
is everything that happened, and it's written from your perspective.
So the defense then responds to this and says, well,
this is what happened on our side, and we have
that as a big fat question mark. I can't imagine
it's going to be a very robust defense. The evidence

(44:29):
is pretty damning, the damages are very real. In every
civil case, you need to have a duty, a breach,
causation and harm. So a duty to behave a certain
way in society, a breach of that, so murdering someone,
violating your bond inappropriately installing an ankle monitor, that would
be the breach causation. It has to be the direct

(44:49):
cause of the damages, which in this case are the
dollar amount he's suing.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
For right which is one hundred and fifty million dollars.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
And good for him, get it. I mean, reading that
lawsuit rading the plane, I'm like, Okay, this guy was
incredible at gathering evidence throughout this entire process. I'm very
curious to see what happens if I had to read
the tea leaves my booth at the station with a
crystal ball. The train station would be that there's going
to be a nice settlement here and that this will

(45:17):
not go to trial because the evidence is so damning.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, well, I hope that is what happens and that
they have to pay.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Yeah, it'll be a really interesting he's suing the bond company.
Bond companies are underwritten by insurance companies, so I don't
know if that's a co defendant.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Well, I'm curious that he didn't sue the like the
judge or the township. I'm curious about that.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, we didn't end up talking about this aspect of
Judge Cheryl Blacky.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
So there have been some articles about Judge Blackburn, how
she suffered a stroke in twenty twenty one, and there
have been attorneys who have come out and claimed that
she is mentally incompetent to be on the bench, which
is in a small town like this. Doing that can
be the end of your career as an attorney. So
the fact that these lawyers, and I think a lot
of them were defense lawyers, felt that her decisions were

(46:06):
erratic and unpredictable, and I am not commenting on whether
or not they were for legal purposes.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
It was in question.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
It was thrown heavily into question, and a group of
attorneys from a small town came out against a judge
and said that that can really fuck your career RT time, Like,
I mean.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
You're seeing in front of that judge again.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
You're seeing how KGM being right now about answering questions
about a judge in the state that I'm not even
a part of, because I'm like, we are very protective
of that and judges you have to appear in front
of them. I have relationships with certain judges I've appeared
in front of for a decade where I know them
in court. They know my personality in court. I have
built that rapport where they know I'm not going to
freak out or I'm not going to object to every

(46:45):
stupid little thing, or that when I do freak out,
they should really listen because I'm oftentimes like a great
credibility collected. Right. So the fact that these attorneys came.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Out and did this means that it really says something.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
It really says something about the egregious nature of her
behavior on the bench. Lowering that bond from two fifty
to one fifty is a big fat question mark. I
don't know what compelled her to do that or what
the reasoning was. It's I'm not saying there wasn't any
I'm saying that it's not clear from the fact pattern,
right it is.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
It's very unclear. And you know, in October actually of
twenty twenty four, a six judge panel, yes, sits to
review what happened and see if rules were broken.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
Did they have an outcome yet from that?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Because yeah, so I think what they determined and I'll
pull it up.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
A six judge panel reviewing other judges like that. I
have to do that when I submit immigration appeals to
the Board of Immigration Appeals. Okay, it's like the other judges,
it's their peers.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
So for they were reviewing the bonding companies, Yeah, let
me pull it up. A six judge panel ruled on
Monday the two bonding companies did not break local court
rules after a man bonded out in Nashville and was
later accused of killing his girlfriend in Mississippi. So they're
reviewing these bonding companies and saying, did you violate core orders?

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Right?

Speaker 1 (48:01):
And ultimately they determined that there were a lot of
small errors that resulted in this catastrophic failure.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, of course, I wonder what other failures there have been.
Is there a class action lawsuit here or like what
is going on? Because I mean, for me, once right,
I can't imagine this is the first time these bond
companies have totally screwed up like this.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, I mean, how would we even ever know? It
says that the criminal court clerk's office failed to send
the full and complete bond condition order.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
They're blaming the clerk's office.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
So the clerk's office did not communicate with the bonding
company and the Freedom Monitoring service. However, he wasn't supposed
to be released after four pm, so that's why he
went to this other monitoring company in the first place.
So it's all very like convoluted.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
And you know, if everyone's playing hot potato at this point,
because there's a big fat lawsuit on someone's desk. We've
got a judge who is being called into question. We've
got a six judges everyone and all eyes are on
this town, on this company, on this judge. So everyone's
planing you did this, you did this, you did this,
And we have very awful situation. We have someone was

(49:14):
murdered it wasn't like, oh, someone violated their parole and
we didn't really notice. Okay, well we're going to bring
them back and we're going to put them, We're going
to incarcerate them. It's like there is a very clear
victim damage here, like someone died for sure.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Actually, the CEO of the Tennessee Coalition and Domestic and
Sexual Violence called this case horrific and preventable, which I
think like calling someone's murder preventable. I mean that is
like that's big. Yeah, and you can really see it
playing out here. Obviously hindsight is twenty twenty, but you know,

(49:50):
it's devastating.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
It's interesting we don't have the victim's perspective, right, we
have this like big vacuum where we don't have any
information from her. What she was going through is all
through the perspective of the dad. I just wonder, right,
like I want to hear her perspective, and it's so
awful we won't get it.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, I don't know how he got her in the
car with him, but the security camera at her home
had been destroyed, and I imagine that was just harrowing
for her to learn that he had been released it's terrible,
And I think, like I'll be following this lawsuit because
I mean, what's the hope here at this point when

(50:26):
a life has been lost, is that you can affect change, right.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Yeah, or that we can learn from it, or that
we can feel that there's some sort of justice being served, right,
I mean we always try and he's up for capital punishment.
Now does that change what happened if that trial, if
he does get the death sentence. Yeah, it's at the
end of every case, I'm sort of like, did this
do anything for us? Like did we find justice today?

(50:51):
Like was anyone held accountable? Like I don't have answers,
And I think like people look to lawyers, or they
look to the court, to the people who are involved
in criminal law for answers to feel like there is
some sort of resolution. But it is a process, and
often at the end we're left with more questions than answers.
Oftentimes at the end we're left with an even more

(51:14):
unreconciled feeling. Right, it's never black and white what happens
in court, and.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, and the people that have these jobs that are
I mean hugely important to the safety of victims, Like
someone who is in charge of installing an inkle monitor.
You know that can be a one man show sometimes, Yeah,
like how are we monitoring those people? I mean we
all want checks and balances, I think in our career

(51:42):
because people do make mistakes of course.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah, I think it's so it's so important to remember that,
like everyone in every situation in the justice process is
a person who is capable of error. Yeah, and it's like,
what do we fucking do with that?

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Right?

Speaker 3 (52:00):
So, how do we like a wrap our heads around that?
Can we fix that? Is there a way to make
it better? Like it is one of these things where
it's like if I screw up sometimes in court, like
it can be life and death for a client. I
have clients who are up for deportation where if they
do get deported, they will die.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Period, There's no question about it. And it's like if
I miss that filing deadline and that happens, it's like
I will feel awful, right, like that that is my life. Well,
I've ruined someone's life. But it's also like can I
give myself grace as someone who works in these extreme
I have chosen a career where I am at the

(52:41):
nexus of life and death for other people. Yeah, if
I just grew up and there is like a life
or death ramification, at what point do I say, Okay, Michael,
you are a person. You are capable of error. Right,
at what point do I say, Okay, this is the
system that has failed. There's so many other people involved
in this. My one little mistake, right, thinking about these
people and trying to have compassion for that person who's

(53:03):
working three jobs installing an ankle monitor. Like, it's very
easy for me to sit here and be like, it's
fuck that person that sucks. But it's like, no, I
have worked three jobs. Maybe they weren't as critical as
like installing ankle monitors, but like I've worked three jobs
and forgotten to wait that table or forgotten to like
punch that time card. Like, human error happens on any job.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
It happens, and you have to I think, if you're
going to be in a position of keeping people safe,
which is installing a facal monitor and being aware of
release conditions, I don't know. I mean this is me
speaking more generally, not about this person in particular, this
case in particular, but if that is my job, I
don't care what this person tells me or how trustworthy

(53:46):
theyse came I want the release conditions first.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
That was like an egregious error.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Oh my god, I'm not taking someone's word for it,
because that is a very very important Jobson, You're talking
is so biased, so incentivized to light to you.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
For this ankle monitor. Yeah, that would be what I
would say. Like, I'm really curious to see what happens
in the civil lawsuit because I think we can based
off this evidence here, just like reading as a criminal
defense lawyer reading the evidence against him at the criminal trial.
I think there is very much a plea deal, or
maybe they won't even offer a plea to look over
right to trial and he will get sentenced to death.

(54:21):
But I'm curious to see what happens in Lance's civil suit.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
And how that hopefully motivates them to I don't know
what the right word is, to get a more cohesive
system together so that it doesn't happen again.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
I also hope that this isn't like a quick settlement
where we don't hear anything, like I think Lance has
been such a strong victim advocate. My hope is that
oftentimes clients it won't be about the money, and that
it'll be about dragging them out into the public. It'll
be about dragging this case into the light, making them

(54:55):
respond to his complaint, right, because when in civil court,
when you submit a point, then the defense has to
respond in writing their side of the story.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Right.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
So I would love it if he held out negotiations
because I'm sure they're all at the table right now
trying to negotiate to get this lawsuit settled, and with
an NDA button it all up, I would love it
if he dragged it out to make them respond, to
make sure that they have to get on the record
with some of this so that there can be some change,
so that there can be some reform, so that the

(55:26):
public outcry isn't just you know, fizzles out.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, and I haven't seen anything about the lawsuits since
it was filed over the summer. How long do you
think these things typically it can take years.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
It can take years. Yeah. I'll come back when we
have a when we have a responsible to soul civil breakdown,
because I think that there are, it'll be it'll be
really interesting. I'm curious to watch.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Are the two things just so separate? Where like, assuming
Bryson Rivers is convicted of murder. Does that ever influence.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
That will be that will be evidence that would be
a part of that soue.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Okay, so it's possible that they might wait.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Yeah, they might wait to see what happens. And sometimes
those lawyers work together, Okay, So they'll partner together, and
that the prosecutor's office will be letting Lancen write because
Lance is probably a witness in the criminal trial. He's
also filing this suit. The prosecutors will probably be working
with the civil attorneys like they have. It's mutually beneficial

(56:25):
for them to be communicating, Okay, So yeah, the attorneys
in civil court will be probably communicating with the prosecutors.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Okay. Yeah, Well we'll have to be looking out for
an update then. And Michael, thank you so much for
being here today and going through this like yeah, I
mean going through this like incredibly difficult case. And obviously
it's a huge tragedy and a colossal loss for Lauren's

(56:51):
family and everyone who loved her. And I think, you know,
all we can hope now is that the civil lawsuit
brings some change, prevents us from happening again.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Yeah, we try and find some sort of justice in
this tragedy. Right, it's so hard to find some sort
of resolution that feels satisfying for everyone involved because you
can't bring her back. Right.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
I was really just a listener this time around on
this podcast, and I have to say I loved listening
to it. I thought you guys did such a good job,
and Michael was so additive to this case. He has
great energy, and I loved how he weighed in as
you went through the case and talked about all of
the details. I loved his insights about the legal process

(57:42):
and all of the things that he brought up, like
whenever you mentioned Lauren calling her parents, which ended up
being a possibly life saving call at that time. Obviously
it goes on to become like very tragic, but in
that moment that call, Michael flagged this is probably going
to be really key evidence at trial, you know, just
flagging potential evidence as you went along. I mean, obviously

(58:05):
the trial hasn't happened yet, so we shall see what happens.
But I thought his insight was really invaluable there. Yeah,
he also I think really connected the dots for me
and maybe for some of our listeners like me who
were less familiar with like the ins and outs of
what a bonding agency really does and how this functions
and our justice system and where it all fell apart here.

(58:28):
I mean, that was super helpful. You know, this story
is like, it's truly heartbreaking because it does feel preventable,
and we owe victims of domestic violence protection from their
abusers and it didn't happen here, and so that was
a failure absolutely, And you know, Michael also spoke about

(58:48):
how this bond system just isn't perfect. There's a lot
of inequity because certain people can afford bond and certain
people can't. And just because you've been arrested doesn't mean
you're guilty. You know, a lot of evidence, in my opinion,
is pointing to Bryson Rivers in this case. I feel
confident he'll be convicted. But for the zillions of other

(59:11):
people in prison for things that maybe they didn't do,
you know, a bond can prevent you from being released. Yeah,
it's so tricky, right, because we don't want dangerous people
roaming the streets if they've done something violent. You know,
there's this idea of like it's better for them to

(59:31):
be behind bars, like with Bryson River in this in
this store, you can see how his release led to
Lauren's death. At the same time, You're right, it's like
you're innocent until proven guilty, and so holding someone without
bond that's like determined by a judge a lot of
the time, and it can be a really unfair system
because some people are given the opportunity for bond, but

(59:54):
they can't afford it, so then they're just sitting in prison.
So you know, I've heard some people say we should
abolish the bond system and just not have any bond.
But then it's like, well, then what do you do.
Do you just not hold people or do you hold everybody?
And then you're gonna get into the situation where people
are just sitting in prison for potential years and then

(01:00:14):
maybe they're proven not guilty. Yeah, And I mean I
have to imagine that if you work at a bonding
agency and someone has a high bond, I have to
imagine that that means their charges call for that because
they're dangerous. Like in the case of Bryce and Rivers,
he'd been arrested on really serious offenses before his release,

(01:00:36):
and that high bond, in my mind at least, should
have triggered people to really cross their t's and dot
their eyes and make sure that he was abiding by
those release conditions which didn't happen here. Well, it makes
you think, like setting a really high bond, the idea
being this person probably won't be able to pay this bond,

(01:00:59):
so they'll stay in jail for the time being, why
don't you just not give them the option? You know,
it's like, are they this violent? Are they two million
dollars worth of violent? To where if they pay us
two million dollars, it's okay, We're willing to risk it. Yeah,
Like the whole system actually is pretty absurd when you
really break it down totally. I mean, he should have,
in my opinion, never been released, and I can't imagine

(01:01:21):
anyone disagreeing with that. It's like I heard about this
case right when the story came out, and I just
kept thinking, surely I'm missing something like this is these
people's whole job. But another thing Michael said, which I've
heard before, is like, you know a lot of places
the legal system it's really being held together by like

(01:01:43):
paper clips, and you know, it's at the heart is
just people. And depending on how much funding there is,
depending on a lot of different factors. There's errors that
are made. Yeah, and I don't have all the answers here,
but it just seems like there should be this, and
maybe there is, and that failed here too, But it
was like, this is so serious, this is life and death,

(01:02:06):
and it shouldn't come back to like one person didn't
send the release conditions to one other person. It should
be like multiple check and balances at every step of
the way. I mean, just the fact that his release
happened after four pm, like that in and of itself
should have stopped all of this, but there were many
other things and people in play that could have stopped

(01:02:28):
it and didn't. And so not that they're criminally negligent
for that, but it is. It's just incredibly sad. And
so Bryce and Rivers stands trial in twenty twenty six
right now, and you know, I'm sure Michael and I
will keep in touch about it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
I have to say too, Life three sixty that came
up again in this. Yeah, we we have another episode
that this came up in, and I was like, these
episodes are basically an ad for Life three sixty an app.
I was really unfamiliar with that app. I don't know
if I've been living under a rock. I mean, I'm
familiar with location sharing, but this is the second time

(01:03:07):
it's come up. I had heard of Life three sixty
before in parent groups, and I totally see how it
would appeal to someone to have their kids location twenty
four to seven. So it's basically just a location sharing
app as far as we know. That's my understanding of it,
and it sounds like it was instrumental in saving Lauren's

(01:03:28):
life in the initial attack.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Yeah, whether it's Life three sixty or another app, it's
interesting that these location sharing apps have really started to
come up in episodes that we've been covering. Yeah, it
can be really like life saving totally. Well, Michael is
such a force. We were so happy to have him
on the show, and as you said, we'll definitely continue

(01:03:51):
to follow up with him about this case and maybe
have an update for you all in the new year.
You can check out Brief Recess, hosted by Michael Foot
and Melissa male Branch wherever you get your podcasts. If
you have a story for us, we would love to
hear it. Our email is the Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com,
or you can follow us on Instagram at the Knife

(01:04:12):
Podcast or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast. This has
been an exactly right production, Hosted and produced by me
Hannah Smith and me Paytia Eaton.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi. This episode
was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Executive produced by Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.