February 12, 2026 • 50 mins
In 2014, new parents, Jessica and Justin had just returned home from the hospital with their first baby, a boy. But after only one night home, Justin was killed. In an instant, Jessica’s world turned upside down as police hunted for the killer.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of
the speaker and do not necessarily represent The Knife or
exactly right Media.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I hear screaming, and I hear his aunt say Justin,
Oh my god, Justin, and I mean it just slow motion.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Knife.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'm Patia Eton, I'm Hannah Smith. Today we have a
story from Jessica Ayers and Paytia. You actually did this
interview solo because I was out of town, but I
was blown away when I listened to it. Jessica tells
you about how she became a widow at an unusually
young age.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, Jessica, who goes by Jess, and her husband, Justin
were building their life together when an unexpected tragedy occurred
that took Justin's life, and there was a criminal investigation
and court proceedings, And this all happened now almost twelve
years ago, but jess is still unraveling the ripple effects
of what took place that day.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Let's get into the interview.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hey, my name is Jessica Ayres, but I go by
Jess and I have an online presence called The Singing Widow.
I live in the Florida pan Handle, beautiful white sandy beaches.
It's very southern here. I don't know if I have
an accent, but I may maybe a hint. Some people
(01:45):
tell me I do. I don't hear it. I am
currently a intern therapist, while I will be graduating in
May with my masters in Mental health counseling, and then
I will open my private practice after that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Jess is also a singer, thus her blogs title The
Singing Widow. It's a place where she's been able to
share her story, a story that starts way back in
middle school, when Jess met someone who would change the
course of her life.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I got really involved in my youth group. To anybody
who doesn't know, youth group is like the teenage church
group that you get involved in, and that is where
I met Justin. So. He was this cute. He was
older than me. I was in eighth grade. He was
in eleventh grade. Obviously that age gap is not a
(02:36):
big deal when you get older, but it seemed like
a bigger age gap at the time at.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That time, like eleventh graders when I was in eighth grade,
like they had beards, you know, like whoa.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Whoa, yeah, and he was so cute. He had long
red hair, and he was like a really good looking redhead.
I'll just put that out there, like big fold, long
red hair. He was a guitar player, and he was
the funniest person I had ever met in my entire life.
So what's funny is even though I knew he was
(03:10):
a good guitar player and he played in the church
and like he was a shredder, like you just have
to think about it like that, it was his sense
of humor that first made me notice him because he
said something. He like laughed at a joke I said,
and he made a joke, and that was it. I
was like, this is the funniest, cutest guy I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
You guys just had this instant connection.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I was connected to him. But what's funny is he
thought I was too young for him at first, which
you know, maybe I was flag yeah, and he was like,
I think she's too young. But I flirted with him,
and then yeah, we went on this like a choir tour.
We used to go around, Like I told you, I
was really heavy into church, so we would go and
(03:51):
sing at all these churches all over the country and
that was when we fell in love.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, yeah, And so when did you guys start dating?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We started dating that summer. My mom, because he was
a Christian boy at our church, would let me date him.
He was driving, but she wouldn't let me ride with
him in the car. So she would drive me and
like let me meet with him. But like, I don't
think he took me on my first like day until
I mean I was in eighth grade. That's really young
to be dating. So we fell in love between my
(04:24):
it's so young. But we fell in love the summer
like between my seventh and eighth grade year. And I
went back to school that year in eighth grade, and
I just I hated life. I didn't want to be
a kid. I grew up way too fast. I was
in love. I knew I was going to marry him,
and I was fourteen, Like right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's like at fourteen, what do we know? Well, maybe
more than we realized.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I mean yeah, and he loved me, and I just
knew I was going to marry him. And people were like, oh, whatever,
this is just teen romance or foremons and mind you,
like we weren't having sex. I was goodie goodie Christian
girl doing that till I get married. So yeah, we
were like in love and our hormones were there, but
like we weren't having sex, like we were wholesome teenage couple.
(05:09):
We really were.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
When Justin graduated and went off to college, he and
Jess continued dating. Their relationship was not the stereotypical breakup
and get back together a teenage love story. Theirs was study.
It was easy. They wrote letters to each other and
Jess said that she just knew this was the person
that she was going to marry. And maybe a lot
of first loves feel that way, but Jess and Justin
(05:33):
were for real. Looking back now, I have to wonder
if maybe something inside of them knew how quickly life
could change that their time together would be cut short.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
And I mean to like fast forward the story. I
was engaged my senior year of high school. Of high school, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Wow, so he proposed while you were a senior in high.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
School he did. I did also graduate early, so I
graduated like at Christmas time. I graduated, walked to the
stage with an engagement ring, and then we were married
a year and a half later. Got married in two
thousand and three, the first couple of years, he was
teaching guitar lessons, he was playing in a band, and
(06:18):
then finally he needed a singer and I was like,
can I try? He was like sure. So really that
was where our life took off. Was like, our entire
marriage was centered around our music career, and I was
like band manager, booked all the gigs. We were just
like this team. He was the guitar player, I was
(06:41):
the singer, and we were this team. And that was
our life. I mean, our life just centered around music
and gigging and making it big, you know, that type
of thing. We had one of those relationships that I
don't know, people thought we were special, and I thought
we were special. He was just I don't even know
how to say it, Like he was the kind of
like husband and like man that like people just loved
(07:06):
to be around. Like he was so infectious and kind
and loving and just amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
For the next ten years, Jess and Justin were traveling,
playing music together. They were living their dream. It wasn't
an easy way to make a living, but they were happy.
But in twenty thirteen, Jess started feeling a new dream
taking shape.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I had a very distinct moment where I was singing
at a gig. It was a casino gig, so it
was a good gig. I know, Facebook's not like a
thing now, but like it was, and I remember scrolling
and everybody on my friends group was like posting their
like back to school photos of their kids and like, oh,
so and so back to school today, and they're like,
you know, everybody still does that today, like post the
(07:50):
back to school photos. And I just felt like this emptiness.
I was like I don't have that, and like I
really want that. Like it was like weird. We were
living the dream at the time, like full time musicians.
I was looking at it like this crowd and I
was like, I just want to be a mom.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Like it just hit you. You're like I need this in
my life.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah. We always plan to wait until like we were
in our thirties, and it was just a moment I
was like, Okay, I'm ready. I mean, we got right
to it and we did buy a house and then
we moved in and I was pregnant maybe two months
after we moved into the house.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
This was September of twenty thirteen. Jess and Justin had
been married just the two of them for a decade.
They had all the normal concerns about having a baby,
but mostly they were excited.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Justin had one love in life, you know, besides me,
and it was music, and I was like, well, how
are we going to balance like this music life with
being parents. The atmosphere doesn't really work in well. So,
like we came up this plan. We were still going
to be booking gigs and after I had the baby,
fourth of July was going to be my first gig back,
(09:02):
and my mom was gonna come with us. And I
don't know how we were going to work it all out,
but that was probably the biggest fear, just like financial
and career stuff. We found out around Christmas time we
were having a boy, which is what we both wanted,
not like we wouldn't have loved a girl, but we
knew that, like Justin's last name, he was the last
(09:22):
person to be able to carry on his last name. Yeah,
it was really like a legacy thing, like if we
have a girl, she'll get married and change her name
possibly one day, and she won't carry on the last name.
So we were really excited to get a boy and
finally agreed on a name. Because people don't realize how
hard that is to agree on a name with yourself.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It can be hard. What name did you pick?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So we agreed on Jack's Jax. We ended up naming
name Jackson but short for Jacks, which is really popular now,
but at the time, like nobody had that name. The
day he was born was a long day. It was
literally a twenty two hour delivery, and I had had
like a leakage, and so I had to get admitted
(10:10):
to the hospital because there was like, you know, it
could be infected or whatever if you don't get yourself
in a safe place. They gave me the potocin was
not progressing. It was rough. I thought we were gonna
have to do a C section. But finally I got
some type of like medicine to help me sleep. And
I literally was a course of like thirty minutes, like
(10:31):
progressed from like a two to a nine. So I
got the epidural pushed for two hours, not fun. Finally
he came out. I had a complication. My placenta would
not detach, so it was stuck. So it took them
two hours of pushing and then two more hours of
(10:52):
pulling the placenta out of me. And I lost a
lot of blood. It could have been dangerous if I
wasn't in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
What is it like for Justin in the hospital? Was
he nervous, excited or how was he feeling watching this
all happen. I mean, zillions of births have happened before
us and will happen after us. But for each person,
it's this unique experience. It's life changing and it is
a very serious medical event. What was it like for him?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, now you're getting like my eyes for getting watery.
I have never seen the look on his face. I
don't know. I know everybody says it, but like he
was just grinning from ear to ear. It's kind of funny,
but like, well that's not really funny. But when they
were like trying to pull the pluscent out of me,
I remember like looking over, like where is Justin? I'm
(11:41):
dealing with all of this, And I looked over and
he's holding Jack's and he's just got to smile on
his face, and like Oblivia says, to what's going on
with me? And I was just like hello over here,
like I was your priority for all these years. But
you can't blame him. He just became a dad, Like
he was always a good person, but he was just
changed in that moment when he became a dad. It
(12:03):
was beautiful. We were in the hospital an extra day
because of my complication, so we were there for three
days the day he was born, and then an additional two days.
I was wanting to breastfeed and it was going okay,
and Justin was just trying to do everything he could
to be helpful and just be sweet, and he was
(12:24):
just so excited and it was it was good, but
we were just ready to go home.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's nice to have the access to obviously medical professionals,
but breastfeeding resources, but there's nothing like the comfort of
your own home after going through something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, and I had to have like seventy something stitches,
Like it was a lot. It was basically to sew
me back up Jack's when he came out, he came
out at a weird angle and he ripped me like.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Oh my gosh, wow, I'm sorry. That is tough.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, that was why I had to stay longer, too.
Was for that. I was in a lot of pain,
new mom hormones, you know, trying to breastfeed, trying to
keep up, no sleep, Jess.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And Justin couldn't wait to get home with their new baby,
Jack's and began making new memories and figuring out life
as a family of three.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
It was amazing and like, I feel like we always
have these like pivotal moments.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Pivotal moments, and moments were all that Jess, Justin, and
Jacks would have together. Jess and I spoke about these
moments in great detail. They're important. They're the moments just
before everything changed.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I remember, like, you know, they will you out, and
Justin pulled the car up and we got in the
car and the radio was on, but like we weren't
like changing the radio stations, but like the radio was
on from like when Justin had gotten out of the
car to go see the birth or whatever. And the
song changed as we're driving and we are the Champions
(14:07):
came on the radio and we were driving home. Yeah,
and I was like, oh my gosh, because like I
rode in the backseat with the baby. I don't know,
it's such a special moment, like we did this, like
we're gonna be good. And his mom actually stayed the
night with us to help out because I was like
really like insistent on justin getting some sleep. I knew
(14:29):
I wasn't gonna get sleep anyway because I had to nurse,
and I was like, he needs to get some sleep,
but like I probably need some help. So his mom
volunteered to come and stay with us. And I know
it's really weird, but like we watched Game of Thrones
that night, like we had missed the last episode, and
he was like, do you want to watch this episode together?
I was like sure, like halfway asleep, you know, holding
(14:52):
the baby, and I do remember watching it. And I
only bring it up because I remember watching it. It
was like this really dark episode. I know that's so
can get dark anyway, but it was a darker episode
and I just remember watching it and feeling like very uncomfortable,
and I was just like I do I'm not ready
for this, Like I just gave birth and I have
this baby in my arms, like I don't want to
(15:13):
watch this darkness. But we watched it and then that
night I have anxiety. Who doesn't have anxiety these days?
But I have a lot of like bad health anxiety.
It's been something I was just like dealt with for
a while, but because of my complications, I was not handling,
like the stitches. Well, I was really nervous that something
(15:33):
was wrong. I was like, they probably didn't get all
the placenta out. I'm going to get sepsis. All of
these worries were going through my head and when you
go home, like we wanted to go home, but then
we were home and I was like, well, no, nobody
can see if I'm okay. So I was nervous about that.
I was crying to Justin and his mom's holding the
baby and we were in the bathroom and I was like,
I just feel like something's wrong, and he was like, well,
(15:55):
I know why you feel that way. I was like why.
He was like, well, because you have a child, and
like you're worried something's going to happen to you. And
I was like, well, yeah, but something could happen, Like
I was trying to explain, like but I am not.
Well He's like, well, I just wanted you to know that,
like I've felt nervous the whole time that something was
going to happen to me, But now I feel better
(16:15):
and the babies here and I know everything's going to
be okay. And he really like brought me down in
the moment and calmed me down, and that was a
good moment between us. Day two home, which is actually
day one home because we weren't home in the day
on day one. We basically got home at like eight
o'clock at night and spent the night and then started
(16:35):
the next day. And we had to get into our pediatrician,
like that was number one on the list because I
had a specific pediatrician I wanted to see. She was
like a natural pediatrician I read. She was supportive of breastfeeding,
doesn't push formula, you know new mom stuff. You're like,
I got to have the perfect one. So she was
going out of town and wasn't going to be able
(16:58):
to see us unless we came in that day. And
so that day I had to sit on a boppy
pillow in the waiting room because I could hardly sit
down because of my stitches. And we got to see
the doctor and Jack's had a blowout in the doctor's office,
so Justin had to leave the doctor's office. He was like, no,
(17:18):
my baby is not meeting because we of course we
weren't prepared. We didn't have anything to change the baby
intwo and Justin's like, my son is not meeting his
pediatrician naked, So I'm going to go to Walmart and
get a onesie. So he goes to Walmart gets this
onesie and then we met the pediatrician and it was great,
like we loved her and she was amazing, and then
(17:38):
we went home. I think my mom went with us
to the pediatrician and we had said goodbye to his
mom that morning, and then my mom went with us
pediatrician and then we got back and we're like had
a couple of hours alone to just spin together, and
it was so special. Justin was spoiled when he was
a kid, like his mom did everything for him, so
he wasn't like the kind of guy to like just
(17:59):
start doing laundry. I've never seen him do so much
laundry in my life. Was like watching all the babies closed.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Bring home.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, it's our first full day home and we had
plans that night for family to come meet the baby.
So he had some family from out of town. His
aunt and his cousin were there on his dad's side.
His parents were divorced, so it was like his dad's
side of the family that was coming over, and then
my family and his aunt and cousin came over, I
(18:30):
don't remember what time it was and started hanging out
with us before the family was going to get there.
So I want to say, like three o'clock in the
afternoon or something like that. So I was just spending
the day trying to catch up on sleep and nursing
and you know, kind of hanging out with people. And
he was like socializing and holding the baby and they were,
you know, passing the baby around. So his aunt and
(18:53):
cousin are there, and then his stepmom comes over and
you know, I don't know what time this was, but
they were going to pick up food and we were
just hanging out on the couch and I was just
in such a daze. So I had just taken a nap,
and then I got up and I came out to
like see what's going on. And they were all chatting
(19:13):
and they were talking about going to get the food
for everybody that was coming over, which would be there
pretty soon, I don't know, like twenty minutes from then.
So we're literally sitting there having a conversation about whatever
they're talking about, and his aunt looks at her watch
and she's like, oh, crap, I got to go pick
(19:34):
up the food. So she stands up, and I'm sitting
on the couch and so she's like across from me,
and his cousin is holding Jack's parallel to me in
a rocking chair. And she stands up. She says, I
got to go get the food, and Justin says, I'll
go with you so you don't have to do everything
(19:56):
by yourself. She's like, no, no, no, it's okay, and he's like, no, no, no,
I want to go. When he stands up, he says, no,
it's okay, and literally that was the moment that everything changed.
He had literally just stood to his feet, and we
heard a pop. Like I don't know how it really
else to explain it. Then for all of us, it
(20:18):
sounded like it was the glass that we heard, So
we heard like a popping glass sound, And people that
haven't been in a chaotic, traumatic situation, it's so hard
to explain that. When things start happening, there's so much
confusion that you're just trying to almost figure out what's
(20:41):
going on. And you know, it all happened so quickly,
and I immediately looked over to my left where his
cousin was holding my child and I looked over, like,
what was that Is he okay? And she said, yeah, yeah, yeah,
the baby's fine. You know, she's holding the baby. And
then my attention was over here. And then I hear
(21:01):
out of this ear, I hear screaming, and I hear
his aunt say Justin, Oh my god, Justin, and I mean,
just slow motion right. It's like, I don't know if
anybody's ever had one of those dreams where you're trying
to run in the dream and you cannot, like your
(21:22):
feet feel like they're concreted to the ground. And that
was how I felt. I felt like I was trying
to move but I couldn't move, Like it was like,
what's happening. I fell on the ground because they said
get down. So I don't know even at what point
we realized it was a gunshot, but we thought we
(21:44):
were like it was a drive by shooting or something like.
I didn't live in a bad neighborhood, but we thought
we were under fire. So we're crawling on the ground
on our stomachs. Next thing I know, actually I wasn't
on the ground yet. I got shoved into the bedroom.
Somebody shoved me into the bedroom. Get over here, and
I was like, wait a minute, what am I doing? Like,
and I'm like I need to see Justin and they're
(22:07):
like no, no, no, no, you don't need to see Justin.
And I'm like, yes, I need to see Justin. And
I'm like fighting as hard as I can. Well, this
is where like this slow motion happened, And so I
fought myself away and start crawling on my stomach over
to his body.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And when did you realize that Justin had been shot?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It took a minute, Like I don't know. I mean
it literally did not process in my brain until I
don't know thirty minutes later of what really happened when
the cops were there and everything. But I mean I
just kept saying, what happened, what happened, what happened, Like
what happened, what happened? What happened, like just kind of
repeating that over and over again, like what's going on?
(22:49):
What's going on? And nobody really knew what was going on.
You have to keep in mind too, I was very medically,
like vulnerable. I wasn't supposed to be like doing a
lot physically, and I just I was violent, Like you
have to think about like me violently breaking away from
my family members, like, get the f off of me,
(23:10):
I'm going over to my husband. So I crawled over
to him. They finally let me and obviously didn't know
what I was doing for a pulse, But like, I'm
one of those people too that like I'm afraid to look,
but I want to look. And I just remember like
crawling and trying to look, but like being afraid. So
it's not like I ran over and started shaking his body,
(23:30):
because I didn't have the courage to do that. I
only had the courage to like climb as far as
I could see to where I was next to him,
but not like on top of him, and I saw
his lips. I could see his face, and his lips
were like white, like no life in them. That was
(23:50):
all I needed to see. Somebody grabbed me and pulled
me back into the bedroom.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
At that point, just three short days after the birth
of their son, Justin had died in the living room
of the home he'd planned to raise his family in.
It didn't make any sense. Justin had been shot in
the head, but why and by who. Local police were
(24:17):
arriving in a crime scene at the same time that
unknowing family members were arriving to meet the baby. Just
said that she was so distraught her father had to
physically restrain her.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
What's going on? Is my husband dead? Like I just
had a child? Like what? And so my dad had
to I was so strong. He had to pin me
down on the bed and get on top of me
and like restrain my wrists and put his knees on
my legs because he said I was running into the
wall that I was. I don't remember this. He said,
(24:50):
I was just running full fledged into the wall, trying
to get out of the room, and nobody would let
me out, and I was just losing my mind.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, I mean, there aren't words for what you experienced
that day. So to make sure that I have the
timeline of events correct. You're all sitting there. Your aunt's
gonna go get food, Justin insists on helping. Justin has
shot chaos. Your cousin is holding Jack's and you are
(25:19):
pushed into another room.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, our master bedroom by his aunt. Yes. Actually by
this point his aunt had the baby and it was
his cousin that pushed me into the room.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Okay, and so you're pushed into the room, but you
break free, you crawl over so that you can see
justin on some level your understanding that he has died. Yeah,
and you know who could ever fully process that in
a moment so chaotic. But well, all of this is happening.
You guys are wondering if someone's shooting at you. Everyone's
on the ground afraid. Your dad comes in the back door,
(25:55):
is filled in on what's happening, and then pulls you
back into the room and restrain. Meanwhile, a cop is
arriving and other family members are also arriving.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yes, the cop got there pretty quick, and an ambulance
was called, and I calmed down at some point. I
don't know what happened, but like they eventually did sedate me.
They gave me something to calm me down, some type
of shot of something, but not yet. So I eventually
kind of like, I don't know what happened, but I
think Jack's was crying, and my mother instinct kicked in
(26:29):
and I was like, I need to feed my child.
So I'm like sitting back there by myself in the
bedroom nursing my son while everybody else is in the
living room, and I'm just like shaking my head like
I didn't know what was happening, and I heard someone
outside of the door say he has a pulse. Like
I said, I didn't know how to check for a pulse,
(26:49):
so I couldn't tell them they were wrong. And so
in that moment when I heard he had a pulse,
I had this glimmer of like hope, and I thought like, Okay,
maybe I'm wrong, maybe everything's okay. And all of these
scenarios started playing out of my head as I'm nursing,
and I thought, well, maybe he's going to be paralyzed.
(27:09):
We'll find our way. Maybe he won't never be able
to play guitar again, but we'll have each other, like
for better or for worse. Like I just started like
playing out all these scenarios of like him living but
being disabled and whatever, like he's just gonna be alive.
It's gonna be okay. And then the door opens and
a police officer comes in and he had this look
(27:31):
on his face and I just knew it. I just
knew by the look on his face. And so they
were like, Jessica, wi you you know, hand me the baby,
you know, because I'm I'm not gonna like cry talking
about but I'm holding my three day old baby, and
so I handed him over and I just knew it.
(27:52):
He said, your husband is deceased. That was the words
he said. God, Like, I feel like I would have
rather heard him say your husband is dead. I don't
know why, like the word deceased, Like.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Maybe it sounds so like matter of fact or official.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Maybe yeah, it does, because it's like the medical term.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, the medical term.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, And like I don't ever use that word, but
I know what it means. And I forgot to mention too.
There's so much that was happening. But before the officer
came in, I heard this loud, gasping, screaming, bellowing, adult
male crying out in the other room. And Justin's stepmother
(28:39):
was in the room with me at that point, and
I said, what is that? Like I thought it was
justin coming to That was like another glimmer of hope
I had. I was like, what is that? And his
stepmom said, that's just Steve Honey, which that was his dad.
So I literally heard his dad come into the room
with his son there dead. But after the officer told
(29:03):
me he's deceased, I lost my mind, understandably so, but
I was just fighting, you know, no this isn't real.
I just I didn't want to be alive anymore. Everything
was going through my head. Now I have this baby
and my husband's dead. I was just like, what the fuck?
Like that was going through my mind. And that was
(29:23):
when they had to sedate me because I was so upset,
and my dad and my mom and my mom got
there at that point had to get on top of
me to hold me down. The adrenaline was so hi.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, I mean, I imagine you were also at risk
of tearing the stitches and causing yourself injury in that way.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Miraculously, I did not harm myself at all. I have
no idea how that worked out in my favor.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Jessin Justin lived on a quiet cul de sac. It
felt safe and it should have been well. Jess was
inside the house, her mind racing, her body filled with adrenaline.
Police were outside searching for the source of the gun shot,
and two hundred yards behind the house they found it.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It was like this nice little cult de sac we
lived on. There was all of these trees, and then
behind all these trees was this like little house that
wasn't a part of this cul de sac that was
built and that's where this man was staying, and he
had fired a nine millimeter gun and they found him
(30:34):
standing on his front porch because they knew where the
bullet came in, so they immediately were on the scene
trying to figure out, okay, well where did it come from?
And they found him and he was standing out there,
and he tried to run away because he knew and
they caught him and beat him up.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
What did he know?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
He knew he had shot a gun and it had
obviously hurt somebody. I don't know that he knew at
that point it had killed somebody, but he knew that
there was cops there. He had fired a gun. He
was also like he was a drug addict. He tested
positive for meth. He was drunk, His blood alcohol level
was really high. We lived in a nice neighborhood, like
(31:14):
it was a nice little cult to sec It was
just this weird house that was back there. I actually
knew he was there because I had seen him before,
but I didn't think anything of him. I just thought, like,
he's just some old man that rides his bike.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, and also, you know, someone suffering from addiction doesn't
necessarily mean they're dangerous, No, and so he understood that
he had fired a gun and that someone had likely
been shot because there's police, there's an ambulance. Did he
say why he had fired a gun?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
He did say he told the cops. I'm going to
kind of quote him a little bit. I'm pretty sure
the quote was, I usually can't even squeeze the damn trigger,
but this time it just barely went off. Basically was
saying it was an accident, which is a munch of bullshit.
The cops have been called over to his house before
there was police reports we found out of the cops
(32:04):
being called over there. Keep in mind we hadn't lived
there very long. It had been not even like eight
months since we had lived there. I remember I had
texted Justin one time because we had a little Jack
Russell terrier and he had like thunder anxiety, so anytime
like loud noises would happen, our little Jack Russell would
like get all nervous and start shaking. And I remember
(32:25):
texting Justin when I was pregnant, like, there's that noise again,
and it was a loud, like popping noise, like and
I know now it was a gun, and he was
like target practice shooting or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So incredibly dangerous, so reckless.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
But the cops had been called over there, they did nothing,
and he just told them, oh, it's just fireworks. They
did not even do an investigation into why he was
in that house. And he should have been arrested and
not been there anyway, because it was legal and he
was a felon.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
And I want to get into like what we know
about him now. But at the time, you're at home,
but they've offered you some sedation and Justin his body
is taken away, you know, having a new baby that
you're nursing, how does one spend the next however long
(33:15):
because a nursing baby requires constant attention, you know, and
you can't just hand them over and go to the
hospital or wherever he was taken.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, I will say, like my commitment to nursing was
really strong before I had my child, Like I was
one of those people that like knew I wanted to nurse,
like it was important to me. And then after Justin died,
it was hard, so already hard part of nursing in
addition to feeling like I didn't want to exist, But
(33:52):
it eventually became my focus because it was something I
could focus on besides just being sad. So eventually, like
that became my first purpose, I would say, was nursing
my child. Because I felt like my whole life had
been taken away from me. I had no control over anything,
and that was one thing I could control. It was hard,
(34:12):
but I became really committed to nursing, and it was,
like I would say, like part of the reason why,
Like it saved me from being too depressed or suicidal
or whatever. We learned that he was illegally squatting in
the house. He was a convicted felon. I don't even
know what he was convicted of. He illegally had the gun.
(34:33):
Everything he was doing was illegal. He was an alcoholic,
He was a drug addict. He had constantly regulared the
liquor store up the road, and basically he would just
ride his bike there and get loaded every day. He
was not, you know, an active participant in society or anything.
He first pled not guilty, and apparently they forgot to
read him his rights, so he had some kind of
(34:55):
legal loopholes that we were really concerned about. Instead of
going to trial, we ended up agreeing to a plea
deal and he pled guilty, so we didn't end up
having to go to trial or anything. You know, he
will be getting out if he's still alive, and like,
I don't know the next six years or so. I
(35:15):
used to get these like calls anytime they would have
to transfer him. That way I would know if he
was being moved, And then I was just like, why
am I doing this to myself? Like it's just a reminder.
So I think I opted out of the calls, but
I think when he gets out, they have to notify me.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Did he speak at all at his sentencing.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
I think all he said was I'm sorry, but that
was all I spoke.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Didn't mean anything to you to hear him apologize.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
No, not really. I really had like an emotional barrier
up with him. I just couldn't really let myself get
too emotionally involved when it came to him. It wasn't
like I just had this hatred for him, but I
also just like for a long time, I couldn't even
say his name. I couldn't even like accept that this
(36:06):
person had killed my husband. I almost feel like it
would have been easier if he had said, like I
wanted to kill him, or it was like one on
purpose or I'm not gonna say it would have been easier,
but it would have been easier to like feel all
the stuff against him, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, I mean just hearing you talk about the fact
that he happened to be high and messing with this
gun and standing in the direction of your home and
there's a bunch of trees between your houses, and the
bullet had to travel all that way and go through
all of these different sort of barriers, and it's just
(36:45):
such a senseless, one in a billion accident, although I
don't want to say one in a billion, because it's like,
if you fire a gun recklessly, you should expect to
hurt someone or kill someone, and in that sense, it's
not accidental at all.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, they said it was a one in infinity that
he made that shot. You know, if he tried to
make the shot, he wouldn't have made the shot.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Well, I wanted to say, you know, I was listening
to a podcast the other day was a father who
lost both children in a crash caused by a drunk driver,
and the person who was interviewing him referred to this
as an accident, and he said, no, we don't do that.
It was a crash because she got behind the wheel
drunk and she caused this crash. And when I think
(37:30):
about this sort of quote accidental shooting, there's layers to
people suffering from addiction. But if you fire a gun recklessly,
I think you should do it with the full expectation
that someone is hurt or killed by that because it
is just so dangerous.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, there's definitely fault in that action, and there's also
fault in all of the choices that he made to
lead up to that moment. I think that, like we
have to be careful with Like I'm not trying to
say like people can get an excuse if they're on
drugs or whatever, but like we have to be careful
with using that as like, oh, well they were drunk,
(38:13):
it was an accident. It's like maybe so, but you
chose those actions, and those actions took a life, so
you are responsible for that. I just had to kind
of opt out of the hatred. I'll say I never
like opted in too, like the hatred. Do I ever
want to see that man again in my entire life? No?
(38:36):
Do I spend nights thinking about him? No? But I
know he's the one responsible. It's just such a complicated thing.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
As she reflects on the unimaginable loss of Justin, her husband,
her high school sweetheart, Jess still remembers the way her
family cared for her and for Jack's even in the
midst of their own They showed up and made sure
she knew she wasn't alone.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I just had the best support system ever. I feel
almost like I'm not even say ashamed to say it, because,
like I know, some people don't have the support that
I had. So it's it's amazing. My mom, you know,
both my parents, my brother, my mother in law, all
of my friends. You know, everybody stepped up. I slept
with my mom in the bed, I moved in with them. Yeah,
(39:27):
and it was all hands on deck. You know, everybody
was there to support and to love.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
That's really special because you know they were all grieving, yeah,
in their own ways too. And you know, I've looked
at pictures online. Jack's looks just like Justin.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Right, Yeah, I will say, like he also it's weird,
but he has Justin's mannerisms. Wow, And it's so strange
when he has his dad's mannerisms and he doesn't know
his dad at all. I love it in those moments
when I'm like, oh my god, you're acting just like
your dad did, Like my god, look at his foot
(40:11):
like he has his dad's foot, Like it's weird. I'm
so blessed I found I don't know how I got
so blessed to find another amazing husband. And Don is
so different than Justin, but he's so alike in all
the good ways. And I don't know. It was such
(40:32):
a tough but beautiful experience to fall in love again.
He is the kind of man that he just honors
my relationship with Justin. Still he respects it. It's about
to be Justin's birthday, and we do a poker game
for Justin's birthday every year, and Don is just all
part of the experience, and he has a great relationship
(40:52):
with Justin's parents. I will say the hardest part about
watching Jax is the absence of knowing Justin, and he
doesn't know what it's like to even miss Justin. It's
hard to watch that because it's just like Justin loved
him so much, you know. Me and Don got married
in twenty eighteen, and then we started trying to have
(41:13):
a baby. We struggled with some infertility. I'm sure all
of the trauma that happened to my body was to
thank for that. We ended up having a miscarriage after
trying for two years. That was really devastating, and then
we had to do IVF and we were not good
responders to IVF, like not good, like I didn't have
(41:34):
good numbers. But we ended up with one embryo and
she's our daughter. She's a miracle.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
How has this experience changed you?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
There's like a before and there's an after. I've heard
of other like moms saying like, well, there's before you're
a mom, and then there's after you're a mom. Right,
It's really hard for me to know which before and
which after I'm living in because there's before when I
wasn't a mom, and then there's after when I was
a mom. But then my after also was a widow.
(42:10):
It's weird that my journey into being a mom was
my journey into the most detrimental life changing event, even
above being a mom, losing the greatest love of my life.
And if that doesn't change you, I don't know what
it'll change you. It changed everything about me. The things
(42:30):
that didn't change was like my personality. For a while,
my personality was different, but I started to see glimpses
of my personality as I started to come back to life,
and yeah, it really has changed, really my whole perception
on life. I was Christian, as we talked about, I
did not go to church or really pray for almost
(42:53):
eleven years, and now I've started praying again. I've started
going back to church and that's been really good. But
it took me a while to get there. Like it
just rocked my entire belief system. It's really weird when
I show Jack's pictures of like me when I was
with Justin or whatever, and even my daughter now, because
I'm like, this was a completely different life I was living,
(43:15):
and it feels like I've lived two different lives. It
really does feel that way. I will graduate in May
with my master's and mental health counseling, and then I
will open my own private practice. I've been talking to
like widows and Greenberg's over social media, and I also
wrote a book about grieving widowhood and that type of
(43:35):
thing grieving during widehood. And so yeah, I am ready
to like finally live out my new passion, which obviously
the loss impacted me so much that it became my passion.
And I know it's weird to say, like my passion
is grief. That sounds really strange, but it is. And
I've already been taking clients and working with clients that
(43:57):
have experienced loss, and I just feel this. I hope
that you know, through my experience and through all of
my learning and everything, that I'll be able to just
be some type of aid in their darkest moments. You know,
I'm not going to say there really is nothing darker
than grief, because I haven't been through every experience that
everyone else has been through. But I know for some
(44:19):
of us, losing our person, losing the most essential person
in our lives, is one of the darkest moments we'll
ever live through. So just to help them in any
way possible, and that's what I'm going to do. And
I'm excited. I'm not excited. It's weird to be excited about,
like being in a hard industry.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I think it's a beautiful mission and I'm sure that
people who are living out something not difficult appreciate the
true understanding of what they're going through.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Wow, what an episode. Yeah, I want to say there
was a conversation that you and just had that I
really loved and shaded the way that you talked about
the word accident in relation to this. That was really
important and such a great point that sometimes that word
gets thrown around, especially because I think it's pretty clear
(45:14):
this man did not intend to kill Justin, but calling
it an accident really diminishes the fact that someone made
a choice and that choice had deadly effects.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah. You know, we read so much about crimes that
are taking place, and I had mentioned a podcast interview
I listened to where that was discussed a little bit
with a drunk driving crash that caused two fatalities. And
then also, you know, in my hometown, I think it
was two years ago now, there was another crash where
a young man was driving well over one hundred miles
(45:50):
an hour blue right through an inner section right by
where my parents live in Washington State. And I mean,
I think he killed at least four people normal, Yeah,
and many of whom were chill. And someone in one
of the comment sections I recalled saying the same thing,
and I think what that person said is, you know,
calling this an accident is like firing a gun into
(46:10):
a crowd. And calling it an accident, and I thought, yeah,
that's so right. And then I had listened to this
other podcast about grief where that was also up for discussion,
and I thought it, you know, was important to note
here too.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, because when you fire a gun in a neighborhood,
you have to expect that that's very dangerous thing to.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Do, right.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, They're lethal weapons and you have to take it
seriously if you're handling one. Yeah, And so the nature
of our work sometimes we're having really difficult conversations with
people about loss or really traumatic circumstances, and this one
was one where I found myself, I think, just so
emotional after the interview. And you know, I held it
(46:51):
together during the interview because we never want to, you know,
take away from someone telling us their story by you know,
making them feel like they have to sympathize with us totally.
But yeah, it was so sad, and I think for me,
you know, it was a lighter part of the interview
where Jess was able to talk about her life now
and having remarried someone that's so understanding of Justin's place
(47:15):
in her life. And I loved that. Yeah, me too.
I just thought that was so special and so nice
to hear. And I think it was the moment when
she spoke about how their son Jack's doesn't know what
it's like to miss him. Oh my gosh. Even talking
about it now, I'm like, wow, that is just such
a burden placed on widows and widowers whose children lose
(47:36):
their parents before they maybe have memories of them, to
sort of make those memories maybe later in life by
telling them about their parents. And yeah, I just thought
it was such a powerful interview. And you know the
fact that Jess is on her way to being a
mental health counselor, I just I think she's going to
make such a great impact.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, it was really a powerful interview. And you're right.
It's like we do do a lot of interviews that
are sometimes hard to listen to in the moment, and
our job is to be there and hold space also
be thinking about these from a journalistic perspective. It's both
of those things, and it's not really a space where
(48:17):
it's appropriate for us to get emotional. But like, we're
also human beings and these stories sometimes really hit you.
That's like a tricky balance to strike.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, totally, And you know that's something people ask me.
I don't know if people ask you in your life,
but they're like, how do you do that? And you know,
when I step back and think about it, how do
you do that? Meaning like, how do you have these
difficult conversations so present in your mind all of the time?
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Does it depress you? Does it impact you?
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (48:45):
And I think the answer is like sometimes yes, like
I'll just need to go for a walk or kind
of will talk about like, Okay, well, why are we
doing this? Why are we telling the story? And you know,
I think in the case of her story, you know,
Justin's life mattered and what happened to him shouldn't have
happened to him. This person shouldn't have had a gun,
(49:05):
and you know, that's sort of the why. And I
think that that's what I always come back to, is
that people should feel that what they've gone through matters. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Ah, well, great interview. I really am glad that this
interview happened and that it's on our show. I think
people will find it really meaningful.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Thanks so much to Jess for sharing her story, and
we'll see you next week. If you have a story
for us, we would love to hear it. Our email
is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com, or you can
follow us on Instagram at the Knife Podcast or a
Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
This has been an Exactly Right production hosted and produced
by me Hannah Smith.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
And me Pasha Eden.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport Artwork
five and Slilac. Executive produce by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark
and Danielle Kramer.
This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of
the speaker and do not necessarily represent The Knife or
exactly right Media.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I hear screaming, and I hear his aunt say Justin,
Oh my god, Justin, and I mean it just slow motion.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Knife.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'm Patia Eton, I'm Hannah Smith. Today we have a
story from Jessica Ayers and Paytia. You actually did this
interview solo because I was out of town, but I
was blown away when I listened to it. Jessica tells
you about how she became a widow at an unusually
young age.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, Jessica, who goes by Jess, and her husband, Justin
were building their life together when an unexpected tragedy occurred
that took Justin's life, and there was a criminal investigation
and court proceedings, And this all happened now almost twelve
years ago, but jess is still unraveling the ripple effects
of what took place that day.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Let's get into the interview.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hey, my name is Jessica Ayres, but I go by
Jess and I have an online presence called The Singing Widow.
I live in the Florida pan Handle, beautiful white sandy beaches.
It's very southern here. I don't know if I have
an accent, but I may maybe a hint. Some people
(01:45):
tell me I do. I don't hear it. I am
currently a intern therapist, while I will be graduating in
May with my masters in Mental health counseling, and then
I will open my private practice after that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Jess is also a singer, thus her blogs title The
Singing Widow. It's a place where she's been able to
share her story, a story that starts way back in
middle school, when Jess met someone who would change the
course of her life.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I got really involved in my youth group. To anybody
who doesn't know, youth group is like the teenage church
group that you get involved in, and that is where
I met Justin. So. He was this cute. He was
older than me. I was in eighth grade. He was
in eleventh grade. Obviously that age gap is not a
(02:36):
big deal when you get older, but it seemed like
a bigger age gap at the time at.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That time, like eleventh graders when I was in eighth grade,
like they had beards, you know, like whoa.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Whoa, yeah, and he was so cute. He had long
red hair, and he was like a really good looking redhead.
I'll just put that out there, like big fold, long
red hair. He was a guitar player, and he was
the funniest person I had ever met in my entire life.
So what's funny is even though I knew he was
(03:10):
a good guitar player and he played in the church
and like he was a shredder, like you just have
to think about it like that, it was his sense
of humor that first made me notice him because he
said something. He like laughed at a joke I said,
and he made a joke, and that was it. I
was like, this is the funniest, cutest guy I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
You guys just had this instant connection.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I was connected to him. But what's funny is he
thought I was too young for him at first, which
you know, maybe I was flag yeah, and he was like,
I think she's too young. But I flirted with him,
and then yeah, we went on this like a choir tour.
We used to go around, Like I told you, I
was really heavy into church, so we would go and
(03:51):
sing at all these churches all over the country and
that was when we fell in love.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, yeah, And so when did you guys start dating?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We started dating that summer. My mom, because he was
a Christian boy at our church, would let me date him.
He was driving, but she wouldn't let me ride with
him in the car. So she would drive me and
like let me meet with him. But like, I don't
think he took me on my first like day until
I mean I was in eighth grade. That's really young
to be dating. So we fell in love between my
(04:24):
it's so young. But we fell in love the summer
like between my seventh and eighth grade year. And I
went back to school that year in eighth grade, and
I just I hated life. I didn't want to be
a kid. I grew up way too fast. I was
in love. I knew I was going to marry him,
and I was fourteen, Like right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's like at fourteen, what do we know? Well, maybe
more than we realized.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I mean yeah, and he loved me, and I just
knew I was going to marry him. And people were like, oh, whatever,
this is just teen romance or foremons and mind you,
like we weren't having sex. I was goodie goodie Christian
girl doing that till I get married. So yeah, we
were like in love and our hormones were there, but
like we weren't having sex, like we were wholesome teenage couple.
(05:09):
We really were.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
When Justin graduated and went off to college, he and
Jess continued dating. Their relationship was not the stereotypical breakup
and get back together a teenage love story. Theirs was study.
It was easy. They wrote letters to each other and
Jess said that she just knew this was the person
that she was going to marry. And maybe a lot
of first loves feel that way, but Jess and Justin
(05:33):
were for real. Looking back now, I have to wonder
if maybe something inside of them knew how quickly life
could change that their time together would be cut short.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
And I mean to like fast forward the story. I
was engaged my senior year of high school. Of high school, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Wow, so he proposed while you were a senior in high.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
School he did. I did also graduate early, so I
graduated like at Christmas time. I graduated, walked to the
stage with an engagement ring, and then we were married
a year and a half later. Got married in two
thousand and three, the first couple of years, he was
teaching guitar lessons, he was playing in a band, and
(06:18):
then finally he needed a singer and I was like,
can I try? He was like sure. So really that
was where our life took off. Was like, our entire
marriage was centered around our music career, and I was
like band manager, booked all the gigs. We were just
like this team. He was the guitar player, I was
(06:41):
the singer, and we were this team. And that was
our life. I mean, our life just centered around music
and gigging and making it big, you know, that type
of thing. We had one of those relationships that I
don't know, people thought we were special, and I thought
we were special. He was just I don't even know
how to say it, Like he was the kind of
like husband and like man that like people just loved
(07:06):
to be around. Like he was so infectious and kind
and loving and just amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
For the next ten years, Jess and Justin were traveling,
playing music together. They were living their dream. It wasn't
an easy way to make a living, but they were happy.
But in twenty thirteen, Jess started feeling a new dream
taking shape.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I had a very distinct moment where I was singing
at a gig. It was a casino gig, so it
was a good gig. I know, Facebook's not like a
thing now, but like it was, and I remember scrolling
and everybody on my friends group was like posting their
like back to school photos of their kids and like, oh,
so and so back to school today, and they're like,
you know, everybody still does that today, like post the
(07:50):
back to school photos. And I just felt like this emptiness.
I was like I don't have that, and like I
really want that. Like it was like weird. We were
living the dream at the time, like full time musicians.
I was looking at it like this crowd and I
was like, I just want to be a mom.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Like it just hit you. You're like I need this in
my life.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah. We always plan to wait until like we were
in our thirties, and it was just a moment I
was like, Okay, I'm ready. I mean, we got right
to it and we did buy a house and then
we moved in and I was pregnant maybe two months
after we moved into the house.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
This was September of twenty thirteen. Jess and Justin had
been married just the two of them for a decade.
They had all the normal concerns about having a baby,
but mostly they were excited.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Justin had one love in life, you know, besides me,
and it was music, and I was like, well, how
are we going to balance like this music life with
being parents. The atmosphere doesn't really work in well. So,
like we came up this plan. We were still going
to be booking gigs and after I had the baby,
fourth of July was going to be my first gig back,
(09:02):
and my mom was gonna come with us. And I
don't know how we were going to work it all out,
but that was probably the biggest fear, just like financial
and career stuff. We found out around Christmas time we
were having a boy, which is what we both wanted,
not like we wouldn't have loved a girl, but we
knew that, like Justin's last name, he was the last
(09:22):
person to be able to carry on his last name. Yeah,
it was really like a legacy thing, like if we
have a girl, she'll get married and change her name
possibly one day, and she won't carry on the last name.
So we were really excited to get a boy and
finally agreed on a name. Because people don't realize how
hard that is to agree on a name with yourself.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It can be hard. What name did you pick?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So we agreed on Jack's Jax. We ended up naming
name Jackson but short for Jacks, which is really popular now,
but at the time, like nobody had that name. The
day he was born was a long day. It was
literally a twenty two hour delivery, and I had had
like a leakage, and so I had to get admitted
(10:10):
to the hospital because there was like, you know, it
could be infected or whatever if you don't get yourself
in a safe place. They gave me the potocin was
not progressing. It was rough. I thought we were gonna
have to do a C section. But finally I got
some type of like medicine to help me sleep. And
I literally was a course of like thirty minutes, like
(10:31):
progressed from like a two to a nine. So I
got the epidural pushed for two hours, not fun. Finally
he came out. I had a complication. My placenta would
not detach, so it was stuck. So it took them
two hours of pushing and then two more hours of
(10:52):
pulling the placenta out of me. And I lost a
lot of blood. It could have been dangerous if I
wasn't in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
What is it like for Justin in the hospital? Was
he nervous, excited or how was he feeling watching this
all happen. I mean, zillions of births have happened before
us and will happen after us. But for each person,
it's this unique experience. It's life changing and it is
a very serious medical event. What was it like for him?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, now you're getting like my eyes for getting watery.
I have never seen the look on his face. I
don't know. I know everybody says it, but like he
was just grinning from ear to ear. It's kind of funny,
but like, well that's not really funny. But when they
were like trying to pull the pluscent out of me,
I remember like looking over, like where is Justin? I'm
(11:41):
dealing with all of this, And I looked over and
he's holding Jack's and he's just got to smile on
his face, and like Oblivia says, to what's going on
with me? And I was just like hello over here,
like I was your priority for all these years. But
you can't blame him. He just became a dad, Like
he was always a good person, but he was just
changed in that moment when he became a dad. It
(12:03):
was beautiful. We were in the hospital an extra day
because of my complication, so we were there for three
days the day he was born, and then an additional two days.
I was wanting to breastfeed and it was going okay,
and Justin was just trying to do everything he could
to be helpful and just be sweet, and he was
(12:24):
just so excited and it was it was good, but
we were just ready to go home.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's nice to have the access to obviously medical professionals,
but breastfeeding resources, but there's nothing like the comfort of
your own home after going through something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, and I had to have like seventy something stitches,
Like it was a lot. It was basically to sew
me back up Jack's when he came out, he came
out at a weird angle and he ripped me like.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Oh my gosh, wow, I'm sorry. That is tough.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, that was why I had to stay longer, too.
Was for that. I was in a lot of pain,
new mom hormones, you know, trying to breastfeed, trying to
keep up, no sleep, Jess.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And Justin couldn't wait to get home with their new baby,
Jack's and began making new memories and figuring out life
as a family of three.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
It was amazing and like, I feel like we always
have these like pivotal moments.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Pivotal moments, and moments were all that Jess, Justin, and
Jacks would have together. Jess and I spoke about these
moments in great detail. They're important. They're the moments just
before everything changed.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I remember, like, you know, they will you out, and
Justin pulled the car up and we got in the
car and the radio was on, but like we weren't
like changing the radio stations, but like the radio was
on from like when Justin had gotten out of the
car to go see the birth or whatever. And the
song changed as we're driving and we are the Champions
(14:07):
came on the radio and we were driving home. Yeah,
and I was like, oh my gosh, because like I
rode in the backseat with the baby. I don't know,
it's such a special moment, like we did this, like
we're gonna be good. And his mom actually stayed the
night with us to help out because I was like
really like insistent on justin getting some sleep. I knew
(14:29):
I wasn't gonna get sleep anyway because I had to nurse,
and I was like, he needs to get some sleep,
but like I probably need some help. So his mom
volunteered to come and stay with us. And I know
it's really weird, but like we watched Game of Thrones
that night, like we had missed the last episode, and
he was like, do you want to watch this episode together?
I was like sure, like halfway asleep, you know, holding
(14:52):
the baby, and I do remember watching it. And I
only bring it up because I remember watching it. It
was like this really dark episode. I know that's so
can get dark anyway, but it was a darker episode
and I just remember watching it and feeling like very uncomfortable,
and I was just like I do I'm not ready
for this, Like I just gave birth and I have
this baby in my arms, like I don't want to
(15:13):
watch this darkness. But we watched it and then that
night I have anxiety. Who doesn't have anxiety these days?
But I have a lot of like bad health anxiety.
It's been something I was just like dealt with for
a while, but because of my complications, I was not handling,
like the stitches. Well, I was really nervous that something
(15:33):
was wrong. I was like, they probably didn't get all
the placenta out. I'm going to get sepsis. All of
these worries were going through my head and when you
go home, like we wanted to go home, but then
we were home and I was like, well, no, nobody
can see if I'm okay. So I was nervous about that.
I was crying to Justin and his mom's holding the
baby and we were in the bathroom and I was like,
I just feel like something's wrong, and he was like, well,
(15:55):
I know why you feel that way. I was like why.
He was like, well, because you have a child, and
like you're worried something's going to happen to you. And
I was like, well, yeah, but something could happen, Like
I was trying to explain, like but I am not.
Well He's like, well, I just wanted you to know that,
like I've felt nervous the whole time that something was
going to happen to me, But now I feel better
(16:15):
and the babies here and I know everything's going to
be okay. And he really like brought me down in
the moment and calmed me down, and that was a
good moment between us. Day two home, which is actually
day one home because we weren't home in the day
on day one. We basically got home at like eight
o'clock at night and spent the night and then started
(16:35):
the next day. And we had to get into our pediatrician,
like that was number one on the list because I
had a specific pediatrician I wanted to see. She was
like a natural pediatrician I read. She was supportive of breastfeeding,
doesn't push formula, you know new mom stuff. You're like,
I got to have the perfect one. So she was
going out of town and wasn't going to be able
(16:58):
to see us unless we came in that day. And
so that day I had to sit on a boppy
pillow in the waiting room because I could hardly sit
down because of my stitches. And we got to see
the doctor and Jack's had a blowout in the doctor's office,
so Justin had to leave the doctor's office. He was like, no,
(17:18):
my baby is not meeting because we of course we
weren't prepared. We didn't have anything to change the baby
intwo and Justin's like, my son is not meeting his
pediatrician naked, So I'm going to go to Walmart and
get a onesie. So he goes to Walmart gets this
onesie and then we met the pediatrician and it was great,
like we loved her and she was amazing, and then
(17:38):
we went home. I think my mom went with us
to the pediatrician and we had said goodbye to his
mom that morning, and then my mom went with us
pediatrician and then we got back and we're like had
a couple of hours alone to just spin together, and
it was so special. Justin was spoiled when he was
a kid, like his mom did everything for him, so
he wasn't like the kind of guy to like just
(17:59):
start doing laundry. I've never seen him do so much
laundry in my life. Was like watching all the babies closed.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Bring home.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, it's our first full day home and we had
plans that night for family to come meet the baby.
So he had some family from out of town. His
aunt and his cousin were there on his dad's side.
His parents were divorced, so it was like his dad's
side of the family that was coming over, and then
my family and his aunt and cousin came over, I
(18:30):
don't remember what time it was and started hanging out
with us before the family was going to get there.
So I want to say, like three o'clock in the
afternoon or something like that. So I was just spending
the day trying to catch up on sleep and nursing
and you know, kind of hanging out with people. And
he was like socializing and holding the baby and they were,
you know, passing the baby around. So his aunt and
(18:53):
cousin are there, and then his stepmom comes over and
you know, I don't know what time this was, but
they were going to pick up food and we were
just hanging out on the couch and I was just
in such a daze. So I had just taken a nap,
and then I got up and I came out to
like see what's going on. And they were all chatting
(19:13):
and they were talking about going to get the food
for everybody that was coming over, which would be there
pretty soon, I don't know, like twenty minutes from then.
So we're literally sitting there having a conversation about whatever
they're talking about, and his aunt looks at her watch
and she's like, oh, crap, I got to go pick
(19:34):
up the food. So she stands up, and I'm sitting
on the couch and so she's like across from me,
and his cousin is holding Jack's parallel to me in
a rocking chair. And she stands up. She says, I
got to go get the food, and Justin says, I'll
go with you so you don't have to do everything
(19:56):
by yourself. She's like, no, no, no, it's okay, and he's like, no, no, no,
I want to go. When he stands up, he says, no,
it's okay, and literally that was the moment that everything changed.
He had literally just stood to his feet, and we
heard a pop. Like I don't know how it really
else to explain it. Then for all of us, it
(20:18):
sounded like it was the glass that we heard, So
we heard like a popping glass sound, And people that
haven't been in a chaotic, traumatic situation, it's so hard
to explain that. When things start happening, there's so much
confusion that you're just trying to almost figure out what's
(20:41):
going on. And you know, it all happened so quickly,
and I immediately looked over to my left where his
cousin was holding my child and I looked over, like,
what was that Is he okay? And she said, yeah, yeah, yeah,
the baby's fine. You know, she's holding the baby. And
then my attention was over here. And then I hear
(21:01):
out of this ear, I hear screaming, and I hear
his aunt say Justin, Oh my god, Justin, and I mean,
just slow motion right. It's like, I don't know if
anybody's ever had one of those dreams where you're trying
to run in the dream and you cannot, like your
(21:22):
feet feel like they're concreted to the ground. And that
was how I felt. I felt like I was trying
to move but I couldn't move, Like it was like,
what's happening. I fell on the ground because they said
get down. So I don't know even at what point
we realized it was a gunshot, but we thought we
(21:44):
were like it was a drive by shooting or something like.
I didn't live in a bad neighborhood, but we thought
we were under fire. So we're crawling on the ground
on our stomachs. Next thing I know, actually I wasn't
on the ground yet. I got shoved into the bedroom.
Somebody shoved me into the bedroom. Get over here, and
I was like, wait a minute, what am I doing? Like,
and I'm like I need to see Justin and they're
(22:07):
like no, no, no, no, you don't need to see Justin.
And I'm like, yes, I need to see Justin. And
I'm like fighting as hard as I can. Well, this
is where like this slow motion happened, And so I
fought myself away and start crawling on my stomach over
to his body.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And when did you realize that Justin had been shot?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It took a minute, Like I don't know. I mean
it literally did not process in my brain until I
don't know thirty minutes later of what really happened when
the cops were there and everything. But I mean I
just kept saying, what happened, what happened, what happened, Like
what happened, what happened? What happened, like just kind of
repeating that over and over again, like what's going on?
(22:49):
What's going on? And nobody really knew what was going on.
You have to keep in mind too, I was very medically,
like vulnerable. I wasn't supposed to be like doing a
lot physically, and I just I was violent, Like you
have to think about like me violently breaking away from
my family members, like, get the f off of me,
(23:10):
I'm going over to my husband. So I crawled over
to him. They finally let me and obviously didn't know
what I was doing for a pulse, But like, I'm
one of those people too that like I'm afraid to look,
but I want to look. And I just remember like
crawling and trying to look, but like being afraid. So
it's not like I ran over and started shaking his body,
(23:30):
because I didn't have the courage to do that. I
only had the courage to like climb as far as
I could see to where I was next to him,
but not like on top of him, and I saw
his lips. I could see his face, and his lips
were like white, like no life in them. That was
(23:50):
all I needed to see. Somebody grabbed me and pulled
me back into the bedroom.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
At that point, just three short days after the birth
of their son, Justin had died in the living room
of the home he'd planned to raise his family in.
It didn't make any sense. Justin had been shot in
the head, but why and by who. Local police were
(24:17):
arriving in a crime scene at the same time that
unknowing family members were arriving to meet the baby. Just
said that she was so distraught her father had to
physically restrain her.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
What's going on? Is my husband dead? Like I just
had a child? Like what? And so my dad had
to I was so strong. He had to pin me
down on the bed and get on top of me
and like restrain my wrists and put his knees on
my legs because he said I was running into the
wall that I was. I don't remember this. He said,
(24:50):
I was just running full fledged into the wall, trying
to get out of the room, and nobody would let
me out, and I was just losing my mind.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, I mean, there aren't words for what you experienced
that day. So to make sure that I have the
timeline of events correct. You're all sitting there. Your aunt's
gonna go get food, Justin insists on helping. Justin has
shot chaos. Your cousin is holding Jack's and you are
(25:19):
pushed into another room.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, our master bedroom by his aunt. Yes. Actually by
this point his aunt had the baby and it was
his cousin that pushed me into the room.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Okay, and so you're pushed into the room, but you
break free, you crawl over so that you can see
justin on some level your understanding that he has died. Yeah,
and you know who could ever fully process that in
a moment so chaotic. But well, all of this is happening.
You guys are wondering if someone's shooting at you. Everyone's
on the ground afraid. Your dad comes in the back door,
(25:55):
is filled in on what's happening, and then pulls you
back into the room and restrain. Meanwhile, a cop is
arriving and other family members are also arriving.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yes, the cop got there pretty quick, and an ambulance
was called, and I calmed down at some point. I
don't know what happened, but like they eventually did sedate me.
They gave me something to calm me down, some type
of shot of something, but not yet. So I eventually
kind of like, I don't know what happened, but I
think Jack's was crying, and my mother instinct kicked in
(26:29):
and I was like, I need to feed my child.
So I'm like sitting back there by myself in the
bedroom nursing my son while everybody else is in the
living room, and I'm just like shaking my head like
I didn't know what was happening, and I heard someone
outside of the door say he has a pulse. Like
I said, I didn't know how to check for a pulse,
(26:49):
so I couldn't tell them they were wrong. And so
in that moment when I heard he had a pulse,
I had this glimmer of like hope, and I thought like, Okay,
maybe I'm wrong, maybe everything's okay. And all of these
scenarios started playing out of my head as I'm nursing,
and I thought, well, maybe he's going to be paralyzed.
(27:09):
We'll find our way. Maybe he won't never be able
to play guitar again, but we'll have each other, like
for better or for worse. Like I just started like
playing out all these scenarios of like him living but
being disabled and whatever, like he's just gonna be alive.
It's gonna be okay. And then the door opens and
a police officer comes in and he had this look
(27:31):
on his face and I just knew it. I just
knew by the look on his face. And so they
were like, Jessica, wi you you know, hand me the baby,
you know, because I'm I'm not gonna like cry talking
about but I'm holding my three day old baby, and
so I handed him over and I just knew it.
(27:52):
He said, your husband is deceased. That was the words
he said. God, Like, I feel like I would have
rather heard him say your husband is dead. I don't
know why, like the word deceased, Like.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Maybe it sounds so like matter of fact or official.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Maybe yeah, it does, because it's like the medical term.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, the medical term.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, And like I don't ever use that word, but
I know what it means. And I forgot to mention too.
There's so much that was happening. But before the officer
came in, I heard this loud, gasping, screaming, bellowing, adult
male crying out in the other room. And Justin's stepmother
(28:39):
was in the room with me at that point, and
I said, what is that? Like I thought it was
justin coming to That was like another glimmer of hope
I had. I was like, what is that? And his
stepmom said, that's just Steve Honey, which that was his dad.
So I literally heard his dad come into the room
with his son there dead. But after the officer told
(29:03):
me he's deceased, I lost my mind, understandably so, but
I was just fighting, you know, no this isn't real.
I just I didn't want to be alive anymore. Everything
was going through my head. Now I have this baby
and my husband's dead. I was just like, what the fuck?
Like that was going through my mind. And that was
(29:23):
when they had to sedate me because I was so upset,
and my dad and my mom and my mom got
there at that point had to get on top of
me to hold me down. The adrenaline was so hi.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, I mean, I imagine you were also at risk
of tearing the stitches and causing yourself injury in that way.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Miraculously, I did not harm myself at all. I have
no idea how that worked out in my favor.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Jessin Justin lived on a quiet cul de sac. It
felt safe and it should have been well. Jess was
inside the house, her mind racing, her body filled with adrenaline.
Police were outside searching for the source of the gun shot,
and two hundred yards behind the house they found it.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It was like this nice little cult de sac we
lived on. There was all of these trees, and then
behind all these trees was this like little house that
wasn't a part of this cul de sac that was
built and that's where this man was staying, and he
had fired a nine millimeter gun and they found him
(30:34):
standing on his front porch because they knew where the
bullet came in, so they immediately were on the scene
trying to figure out, okay, well where did it come from?
And they found him and he was standing out there,
and he tried to run away because he knew and
they caught him and beat him up.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
What did he know?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
He knew he had shot a gun and it had
obviously hurt somebody. I don't know that he knew at
that point it had killed somebody, but he knew that
there was cops there. He had fired a gun. He
was also like he was a drug addict. He tested
positive for meth. He was drunk, His blood alcohol level
was really high. We lived in a nice neighborhood, like
(31:14):
it was a nice little cult to sec It was
just this weird house that was back there. I actually
knew he was there because I had seen him before,
but I didn't think anything of him. I just thought, like,
he's just some old man that rides his bike.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, and also, you know, someone suffering from addiction doesn't
necessarily mean they're dangerous, No, and so he understood that
he had fired a gun and that someone had likely
been shot because there's police, there's an ambulance. Did he
say why he had fired a gun?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
He did say he told the cops. I'm going to
kind of quote him a little bit. I'm pretty sure
the quote was, I usually can't even squeeze the damn trigger,
but this time it just barely went off. Basically was
saying it was an accident, which is a munch of bullshit.
The cops have been called over to his house before
there was police reports we found out of the cops
(32:04):
being called over there. Keep in mind we hadn't lived
there very long. It had been not even like eight
months since we had lived there. I remember I had
texted Justin one time because we had a little Jack
Russell terrier and he had like thunder anxiety, so anytime
like loud noises would happen, our little Jack Russell would
like get all nervous and start shaking. And I remember
(32:25):
texting Justin when I was pregnant, like, there's that noise again,
and it was a loud, like popping noise, like and
I know now it was a gun, and he was
like target practice shooting or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So incredibly dangerous, so reckless.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
But the cops had been called over there, they did nothing,
and he just told them, oh, it's just fireworks. They
did not even do an investigation into why he was
in that house. And he should have been arrested and
not been there anyway, because it was legal and he
was a felon.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
And I want to get into like what we know
about him now. But at the time, you're at home,
but they've offered you some sedation and Justin his body
is taken away, you know, having a new baby that
you're nursing, how does one spend the next however long
(33:15):
because a nursing baby requires constant attention, you know, and
you can't just hand them over and go to the
hospital or wherever he was taken.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, I will say, like my commitment to nursing was
really strong before I had my child, Like I was
one of those people that like knew I wanted to nurse,
like it was important to me. And then after Justin died,
it was hard, so already hard part of nursing in
addition to feeling like I didn't want to exist, But
(33:52):
it eventually became my focus because it was something I
could focus on besides just being sad. So eventually, like
that became my first purpose, I would say, was nursing
my child. Because I felt like my whole life had
been taken away from me. I had no control over anything,
and that was one thing I could control. It was hard,
(34:12):
but I became really committed to nursing, and it was,
like I would say, like part of the reason why,
Like it saved me from being too depressed or suicidal
or whatever. We learned that he was illegally squatting in
the house. He was a convicted felon. I don't even
know what he was convicted of. He illegally had the gun.
(34:33):
Everything he was doing was illegal. He was an alcoholic,
He was a drug addict. He had constantly regulared the
liquor store up the road, and basically he would just
ride his bike there and get loaded every day. He
was not, you know, an active participant in society or anything.
He first pled not guilty, and apparently they forgot to
read him his rights, so he had some kind of
(34:55):
legal loopholes that we were really concerned about. Instead of
going to trial, we ended up agreeing to a plea
deal and he pled guilty, so we didn't end up
having to go to trial or anything. You know, he
will be getting out if he's still alive, and like,
I don't know the next six years or so. I
(35:15):
used to get these like calls anytime they would have
to transfer him. That way I would know if he
was being moved, And then I was just like, why
am I doing this to myself? Like it's just a reminder.
So I think I opted out of the calls, but
I think when he gets out, they have to notify me.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Did he speak at all at his sentencing.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
I think all he said was I'm sorry, but that
was all I spoke.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Didn't mean anything to you to hear him apologize.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
No, not really. I really had like an emotional barrier
up with him. I just couldn't really let myself get
too emotionally involved when it came to him. It wasn't
like I just had this hatred for him, but I
also just like for a long time, I couldn't even
say his name. I couldn't even like accept that this
(36:06):
person had killed my husband. I almost feel like it
would have been easier if he had said, like I
wanted to kill him, or it was like one on
purpose or I'm not gonna say it would have been easier,
but it would have been easier to like feel all
the stuff against him, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, I mean just hearing you talk about the fact
that he happened to be high and messing with this
gun and standing in the direction of your home and
there's a bunch of trees between your houses, and the
bullet had to travel all that way and go through
all of these different sort of barriers, and it's just
(36:45):
such a senseless, one in a billion accident, although I
don't want to say one in a billion, because it's like,
if you fire a gun recklessly, you should expect to
hurt someone or kill someone, and in that sense, it's
not accidental at all.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, they said it was a one in infinity that
he made that shot. You know, if he tried to
make the shot, he wouldn't have made the shot.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Well, I wanted to say, you know, I was listening
to a podcast the other day was a father who
lost both children in a crash caused by a drunk driver,
and the person who was interviewing him referred to this
as an accident, and he said, no, we don't do that.
It was a crash because she got behind the wheel
drunk and she caused this crash. And when I think
(37:30):
about this sort of quote accidental shooting, there's layers to
people suffering from addiction. But if you fire a gun recklessly,
I think you should do it with the full expectation
that someone is hurt or killed by that because it
is just so dangerous.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, there's definitely fault in that action, and there's also
fault in all of the choices that he made to
lead up to that moment. I think that, like we
have to be careful with Like I'm not trying to
say like people can get an excuse if they're on
drugs or whatever, but like we have to be careful
with using that as like, oh, well they were drunk,
(38:13):
it was an accident. It's like maybe so, but you
chose those actions, and those actions took a life, so
you are responsible for that. I just had to kind
of opt out of the hatred. I'll say I never
like opted in too, like the hatred. Do I ever
want to see that man again in my entire life? No?
(38:36):
Do I spend nights thinking about him? No? But I
know he's the one responsible. It's just such a complicated thing.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
As she reflects on the unimaginable loss of Justin, her husband,
her high school sweetheart, Jess still remembers the way her
family cared for her and for Jack's even in the
midst of their own They showed up and made sure
she knew she wasn't alone.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I just had the best support system ever. I feel
almost like I'm not even say ashamed to say it, because,
like I know, some people don't have the support that
I had. So it's it's amazing. My mom, you know,
both my parents, my brother, my mother in law, all
of my friends. You know, everybody stepped up. I slept
with my mom in the bed, I moved in with them. Yeah,
(39:27):
and it was all hands on deck. You know, everybody
was there to support and to love.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
That's really special because you know they were all grieving, yeah,
in their own ways too. And you know, I've looked
at pictures online. Jack's looks just like Justin.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Right, Yeah, I will say, like he also it's weird,
but he has Justin's mannerisms. Wow, And it's so strange
when he has his dad's mannerisms and he doesn't know
his dad at all. I love it in those moments
when I'm like, oh my god, you're acting just like
your dad did, Like my god, look at his foot
(40:11):
like he has his dad's foot, Like it's weird. I'm
so blessed I found I don't know how I got
so blessed to find another amazing husband. And Don is
so different than Justin, but he's so alike in all
the good ways. And I don't know. It was such
(40:32):
a tough but beautiful experience to fall in love again.
He is the kind of man that he just honors
my relationship with Justin. Still he respects it. It's about
to be Justin's birthday, and we do a poker game
for Justin's birthday every year, and Don is just all
part of the experience, and he has a great relationship
(40:52):
with Justin's parents. I will say the hardest part about
watching Jax is the absence of knowing Justin, and he
doesn't know what it's like to even miss Justin. It's
hard to watch that because it's just like Justin loved
him so much, you know. Me and Don got married
in twenty eighteen, and then we started trying to have
(41:13):
a baby. We struggled with some infertility. I'm sure all
of the trauma that happened to my body was to
thank for that. We ended up having a miscarriage after
trying for two years. That was really devastating, and then
we had to do IVF and we were not good
responders to IVF, like not good, like I didn't have
(41:34):
good numbers. But we ended up with one embryo and
she's our daughter. She's a miracle.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
How has this experience changed you?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
There's like a before and there's an after. I've heard
of other like moms saying like, well, there's before you're
a mom, and then there's after you're a mom. Right,
It's really hard for me to know which before and
which after I'm living in because there's before when I
wasn't a mom, and then there's after when I was
a mom. But then my after also was a widow.
(42:10):
It's weird that my journey into being a mom was
my journey into the most detrimental life changing event, even
above being a mom, losing the greatest love of my life.
And if that doesn't change you, I don't know what
it'll change you. It changed everything about me. The things
(42:30):
that didn't change was like my personality. For a while,
my personality was different, but I started to see glimpses
of my personality as I started to come back to life,
and yeah, it really has changed, really my whole perception
on life. I was Christian, as we talked about, I
did not go to church or really pray for almost
(42:53):
eleven years, and now I've started praying again. I've started
going back to church and that's been really good. But
it took me a while to get there. Like it
just rocked my entire belief system. It's really weird when
I show Jack's pictures of like me when I was
with Justin or whatever, and even my daughter now, because
I'm like, this was a completely different life I was living,
(43:15):
and it feels like I've lived two different lives. It
really does feel that way. I will graduate in May
with my master's and mental health counseling, and then I
will open my own private practice. I've been talking to
like widows and Greenberg's over social media, and I also
wrote a book about grieving widowhood and that type of
(43:35):
thing grieving during widehood. And so yeah, I am ready
to like finally live out my new passion, which obviously
the loss impacted me so much that it became my passion.
And I know it's weird to say, like my passion
is grief. That sounds really strange, but it is. And
I've already been taking clients and working with clients that
(43:57):
have experienced loss, and I just feel this. I hope
that you know, through my experience and through all of
my learning and everything, that I'll be able to just
be some type of aid in their darkest moments. You know,
I'm not going to say there really is nothing darker
than grief, because I haven't been through every experience that
everyone else has been through. But I know for some
(44:19):
of us, losing our person, losing the most essential person
in our lives, is one of the darkest moments we'll
ever live through. So just to help them in any
way possible, and that's what I'm going to do. And
I'm excited. I'm not excited. It's weird to be excited about,
like being in a hard industry.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I think it's a beautiful mission and I'm sure that
people who are living out something not difficult appreciate the
true understanding of what they're going through.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Wow, what an episode. Yeah, I want to say there
was a conversation that you and just had that I
really loved and shaded the way that you talked about
the word accident in relation to this. That was really
important and such a great point that sometimes that word
gets thrown around, especially because I think it's pretty clear
(45:14):
this man did not intend to kill Justin, but calling
it an accident really diminishes the fact that someone made
a choice and that choice had deadly effects.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah. You know, we read so much about crimes that
are taking place, and I had mentioned a podcast interview
I listened to where that was discussed a little bit
with a drunk driving crash that caused two fatalities. And
then also, you know, in my hometown, I think it
was two years ago now, there was another crash where
a young man was driving well over one hundred miles
(45:50):
an hour blue right through an inner section right by
where my parents live in Washington State. And I mean,
I think he killed at least four people normal, Yeah,
and many of whom were chill. And someone in one
of the comment sections I recalled saying the same thing,
and I think what that person said is, you know,
calling this an accident is like firing a gun into
(46:10):
a crowd. And calling it an accident, and I thought, yeah,
that's so right. And then I had listened to this
other podcast about grief where that was also up for discussion,
and I thought it, you know, was important to note
here too.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, because when you fire a gun in a neighborhood,
you have to expect that that's very dangerous thing to.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Do, right.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, They're lethal weapons and you have to take it
seriously if you're handling one. Yeah, And so the nature
of our work sometimes we're having really difficult conversations with
people about loss or really traumatic circumstances, and this one
was one where I found myself, I think, just so
emotional after the interview. And you know, I held it
(46:51):
together during the interview because we never want to, you know,
take away from someone telling us their story by you know,
making them feel like they have to sympathize with us totally.
But yeah, it was so sad, and I think for me,
you know, it was a lighter part of the interview
where Jess was able to talk about her life now
and having remarried someone that's so understanding of Justin's place
(47:15):
in her life. And I loved that. Yeah, me too.
I just thought that was so special and so nice
to hear. And I think it was the moment when
she spoke about how their son Jack's doesn't know what
it's like to miss him. Oh my gosh. Even talking
about it now, I'm like, wow, that is just such
a burden placed on widows and widowers whose children lose
(47:36):
their parents before they maybe have memories of them, to
sort of make those memories maybe later in life by
telling them about their parents. And yeah, I just thought
it was such a powerful interview. And you know the
fact that Jess is on her way to being a
mental health counselor, I just I think she's going to
make such a great impact.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, it was really a powerful interview. And you're right.
It's like we do do a lot of interviews that
are sometimes hard to listen to in the moment, and
our job is to be there and hold space also
be thinking about these from a journalistic perspective. It's both
of those things, and it's not really a space where
(48:17):
it's appropriate for us to get emotional. But like, we're
also human beings and these stories sometimes really hit you.
That's like a tricky balance to strike.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, totally, And you know that's something people ask me.
I don't know if people ask you in your life,
but they're like, how do you do that? And you know,
when I step back and think about it, how do
you do that? Meaning like, how do you have these
difficult conversations so present in your mind all of the time?
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Does it depress you? Does it impact you?
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (48:45):
And I think the answer is like sometimes yes, like
I'll just need to go for a walk or kind
of will talk about like, Okay, well, why are we
doing this? Why are we telling the story? And you know,
I think in the case of her story, you know,
Justin's life mattered and what happened to him shouldn't have
happened to him. This person shouldn't have had a gun,
(49:05):
and you know, that's sort of the why. And I
think that that's what I always come back to, is
that people should feel that what they've gone through matters. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Ah, well, great interview. I really am glad that this
interview happened and that it's on our show. I think
people will find it really meaningful.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Thanks so much to Jess for sharing her story, and
we'll see you next week. If you have a story
for us, we would love to hear it. Our email
is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com, or you can
follow us on Instagram at the Knife Podcast or a
Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
This has been an Exactly Right production hosted and produced
by me Hannah Smith.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
And me Pasha Eden.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport Artwork
five and Slilac. Executive produce by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark
and Danielle Kramer.
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