June 23, 2026 • 67 mins
Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew discuss: The punt gun video is imminent; hipster Brody; the lack of chill from a lakeside tiki hut owner; the killing of a "protected" wolf in CO; how AI misinformation has infiltrated wildlife news; a life changing marlin out of the Big Rock tourney; elk tag tax fraud; and more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the news show. This week, We've got a
lake access dispute Wisconsin that you really need to pay
attention to. We got a new word neo native, that
you really need to learn. A ranch hand, and Colorado
kills a wolf and that needs to be Okay, Seth
catches a nine hundred and nineteen point nine pound blue marlin,
(00:26):
or at least he'll tell you about one. AI is
being used to make up and push fake wildlife news.
Randall digs into an ELK scandal as well as some
ELK bs and more. But first, we never do this, yeah,
(00:46):
from the newspile, from the paper newspile. It's nice, oh,
mixing it up.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's like old school.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Why I never read the mail that comes in the mail.
I'm gonna cut this one short. This guy, he's a kid,
he's thirteen, he said, but not to my main point.
But not at my main point. I would love for
you guys to do your best at not cussing on air.
I really don't enjoy going to bed with Steve's son
(01:15):
of a bleep and Randall's mother bleep in my head.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Oh, I wasn't on the list.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
That makes me Happy'll someday I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
He says, every time you swear, you should put one
hundred dollars and donate it to a college bass fishing team.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh that's a good idea. That is a good idea.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Piper Nicholson wrote, He's a little kid. You tell why
I was writing. He wrote this nice letter. I mainly
took note of the envelope. It says, PS. I named
Apossum after you, Steve. So thank you very much to
Piper Nicholson. Oh, our punt vun our punt gun video
(01:57):
is finally coming out. Years ago we bought a punt
gun add auction for twenty thousand dollars. You're probably sticking
here and talk about the damn punk gun. It just
took us a bunch of the dang dand gurn punk gun. Sorry, sorry,
let's take his name as what's his name?
Speaker 5 (02:12):
I think it's Asa Asa Yeah, sorry, asah my cursive.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It took us forever to make the punt gun video.
Just it's very complicated. We explain why it took so
long in our punt gun video, which is out like now,
ish soon play a clip, Phil.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Oh, sure, let's load it up.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
So here this shows the punk gun. There's a swear word.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Got This is.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
The part of the punt gun video when we shoot
water melons. That's the punt gun cocking and that's the
punk gun going off, and that's the watermelons blowing up.
Ah La Gallagher. So tune it out. There's a we
shoot all kinds of stuff in the punt gun video.
I think you're gonna love it. Uh, Brody got a
(03:03):
truck camper and he's got something to say about that.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, I gotta. I posted a picture on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I don't know why I saw that picture.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah. So you know people are doing this a lot
these days, getting those like fold up truck top camper thing. Listen,
they're not I got a real but I'm yeah, I'm
getting called a Bozeman hipster forgetting one of those things.
For years, I just slept on a sleeping pad under
a regular topper. I got old and uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's not uncomfortable. My wife does that. She's not out
there trying to prove anything.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I just look, I just wanted it, like I had
a actually good reason for getting it. That's because if
we want to take the if we're going to camp
and take the boat with us, we would have to
take two rigs because we have a pop up camper
and a boat. Understood, Now, we can take one rig
in the boat and go camp.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It's a cost saving thing. I'm just joking. I don't
think anything different of you.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, but I think these people don't really understand what
hipsters are. I don't think hipsters well.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Are like That's why he said Bozeman hipster.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
In fairness, they'd have.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Like a refurbished airstream or some ship like that.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
Sorry, in fairness to them.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Spencer Spencer Newhart is the primary advocate of truck top
campers in this He was.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And I used to make fun of him.
Speaker 6 (04:22):
Does he have one and he's ever made?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I'm looking forward to using that thing during deer season.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Man.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I've been thinking about getting one of Ali Baba once.
It's like it's like the same same thing you bought
it here, but like in the price, oh from that
like whatever that website?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, I understand? Uh? From here? Fourth here?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Ye, hear ye?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
From here? Fourth at first Light. First Light has a
new Camel for Conservation program. When you buy camo any
kind of camel clothes at first Light, a percent one
percent of that sale price goes directly to our conservation partners. Okay, uh,
straight up, when you buy camel at First Light, one
(05:10):
percent to our conservation partners. The program is called Camel
for Conservation. So check that out too. You see the
new Custer's Last Stand shirt.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I like it. I like the color, very colorful, very.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, pots man. So you know when you're taking a wig.
Speaker 7 (05:24):
Got him in the heart, huh Yeah, when you're taking
a whiz in the bathroom, you're looking at the here
fell Custer, and Custer's kind of like hunkered, like he's
sort of on the hands and knees dying.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
But down the hill there's a guy dying like this.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, can you fool your laptop down so we can
the audience go.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, So Custer's kind of dying in the lame way
in that painting. So when we wanted to do a
good Custer's Last Stand shirt, we we had the guy
down the hill bey Custer and modeled uh, just kind
of more zippy, you know, like his gun's going off.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
About flowing hair. You don't know this, he didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He got a cup for the campaign in that shirt. Yeah,
died short, short hair and he wasn't wearing the regulation hat,
and his wife, Libby Custer, had a wig made with
the hair he got cut off and wore it around.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Yeah, Sydney's going to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
My wife wouldn't be able to do that either.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, here's the deal. I said, there's a word neo
natives need to know. So Guy wrote in I'm a
PhD student in the Department of College, Department of Ecology
and Conservation Biology at Texas A and M University. He's
currently studying invasive species management in the Great Plains. Okay,
he's looking at all ed diet and their impact on
(06:45):
the Chiuahuan Desert ecosystem. That's him establishing his bona fides.
In the most recent episode, number eight ninety, concerning meal
deer in Alaska, Steve remarked that he wasn't sure whether
invasive was really an appropriate term for the mules in
this situation. He says he would have to agree with me,
(07:06):
and he put an exclamation point there. He says, in fact,
there's a new term for the expansion of native species
ranges into previously unoccupied areas. This new term is a
neo native for those taxa that have expanded geographically beyond
(07:27):
their native range, and that now have established populations whose
presence is due to human induced changes in the biophysical environment,
but not direct movement. Not direct movement. That's the perfect word.
I see. When I was complaining about there not being
(07:47):
a word for it, I didn't even think that you'd
go make one up.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It's great. And he does say like human influence like canals, roads, pipelines, tunnels,
Like we talked about neonative.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
It wasn't moved, but we did something that like created
the situation.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
We would be another neo native.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Well them of woody plants onto the great planes due
to insufficient grazing practice.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yes, yep, kyles for sure, Kyles for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
White tails all white tails.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, white tails are neo natives and all kinds of
new places. Yeah, it's a great term. I'm start using
it all the time.
Speaker 6 (08:23):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Whoever that guy was, Daniel, Thanks buddy.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
This next letter, next next email, I should say, uh
is something that we heard from a lot of folks,
and this is about the Big Oaks National Wildlife Refuge
in Madison, Indiana. He writes, this refuge has an amazing
history of once being a testing range for Army munitions.
To recreate here, you must attend an annual class about
the dangers of unexploded ordinances. In the refuge, it's open
(08:51):
to hunting. Turkey and deer. Opportunities are available through the
d NR's Reserved Hunt program, which is basically a draw
small game huntings open on a portion of the refuge.
The Fish and Wildlife Service has had an agreement with
the Army to continue it's hunting program, but they're considering
changes to the agreement due to budget problems. And he's saying,
(09:16):
is it expensive to let dudes hunt? Well, I think
it has to do with staffing. They had a big
rally in Madison about the possible closer of the refuge.
There's an online petition that you can sign, and this
guy's telling folks to write to their right to their
(09:38):
senators and voice support for big oaks n w R funding.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's funny because I don't think there's a day that
goes by that there's not a rally in Madison. But
the fact that there's a pro hunting rally in Madison
catches me by surprise.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
Madison, Indiana, Madison still a good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I meant to Madison where you'd always have a rally.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Yeah, so they it's fit. It's fifty thousand, that there's
six thousand hunters annually that take advantage of this, and
essentially they The refuge manager retired last year following rob
Following this guy's retirement, refuge staff were cut from five
(10:18):
employees to a single off site manager. And then last
month there was a notification that it was going to
consider uh severing the MoU with the army, which would
close the refuge altogether. So again, this is one of
those opportunities where if you don't speak up, no one
else is going to. And yeah, I mean there's not
(10:39):
a ton of like in the Midwest. Any any acre
of public land is immensely valuable. We kind of take
it for granted out here living in Montana, but Indiana
can't afford to lose fifty thousand acres of public land.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
So it's a choice.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Heard, did you mention the part about him here in Turkey?
Shot Goblin to a ten.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
No.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
No, no, I was trying to get to the I
was trying to get.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
To the called action, he says.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Ye, but I would never leave out the good parts
just for that.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
It was an oversight.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
A small interior portion of the refuge is closed the
hunting because the Indiana National Guard uses it as an
air to surface test range. I can personally attest to
Turkey's shock gobbling to a ten warthog guns. That would
be that would be very interesting. Yeah, make your voice.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Heard, all right, Lakers and Barrow trauma. We did that
little piece on the the many state record Lakers coming
out of Minnesota from one fishing guide like a week
or two back. Had someone right in an episode eighty seven,
you folks talked about the guy out of two harbors.
(11:53):
I follow this charter on Facebook and see all the
bunkers he I think he meant lunkers he pulls out
of the depths and it is extremely impressive. His question
is about survival rates of a fish of that size
being pulled out of thirty nine degree water from eighty
ninety one hundred plus feet deep. He understands the fish
(12:13):
is being pulled up through the water. Call him slower
than trolling, but he's still got concerns about like how
the fish would handle it. Do you have any thoughts
or answers to the concerns of fish fatality? If you
go on Facebook, you'll see a mix of wow, huge
and nice you killed it by throwing it back. I
did a little research for you, and it turns out
(12:35):
that lakers and all salmon it's like trout char whatever
in the trout salmon char family, they're all less susceptible
to barrow trauma. Gott to pull this stuff up. They're
they're called physostomas fish. This means they possess a specialized
pneumatic duck that connects their swim bladder to their digestic digestive,
(13:00):
which allows them to burp out excess expanding gas barrow trauma.
You'll see them. Their guts are all blown up, their
eyes are sticking out of their head. It's pretty gruesome.
So this means that lakers deal with it coming up,
and it also means they if they do get get it,
they deal with it better going back down. But if
(13:23):
the fish is reeled up too rapidly they can get it.
They can't expel that gas fast enough to keep up
with the barrow trauma, and this can create severe pressure
on their organs and cause internal bleeding. Some studies show
twenty to mortality can occur when lake trout are brought
(13:43):
up very fast from extremely deep water. But like, we
hope those kings in two hundred feet of water when
we're halibit fishing and they.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Come up fine, you know, they like run to the
surface they themselves.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah. Yeah, before you even know you got him on
and he's already jumping out in front of the boat.
He look a salmon.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
You have a bunch of slack lines.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You're you're like a night break off.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
What happened, Physicistomas, They got they got a little duct
and there's swim bladder. It helps with that.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay, here here, here's some news. I found this and
I did additional digging on this, but I was made
aware of this in Wall Street Journal. But I but
this story is a story that pops up down there
because it has to do with some with some particulars
about the state of Wisconsin's water access rules. This story
(14:35):
involves a dude, a dog walker that lives in a
suburb of Milwaukee, and his name is Paul Floorsheim. Okay,
there's an old man's shoe company, floor shym Shoes, And
I was like, why was I reading about floor shym
shoes recently? Well, it turns out also reported in the
(14:57):
Wall Street Journal. This is a little wrinkle. This is
like a news wormhole. A couple of months ago, reporting
the Wall Street Journal is that Trump has taken a
shine oh yeah, to floor Shine Shoes, taking a shine
to him. That's like a pun. He's taking a shine
(15:19):
to floor Shine Shoes. Did you know this, Yes, to
the point where he likes to do a thing where
people will come and he likes to look and try
to guess their.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Shoe size and then give them shoes.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
So that he can give them floor shin shoes. Here's
where the wrinkle gets even deeper. You think of him
normally as somewhat vindictive, right, Like, he keeps in mind
who's slighted him, and he wants to come back around
and get him. Floor Shine Shoes is suing to get
(15:54):
back their twenty million dollars in illegal import duties that
they were. Oh, the Supreme Court struck down the illegal
duties and you could get your money back. Floorsheim wanted
their twenty two million dollars back. They're also very shoes.
This has nothing to do with the story. This is
(16:15):
just an added little wrinkle. It says that he gets
a kick out of guests in people's shoes in a court.
And there's a rumor that he said, I think in
a conversation with Vance and Rubio, he said, I can
tell a lot about a man by the size of
his shoes. Play at Phil Star of cowboy boots coming up?
Speaker 5 (16:39):
What science size twelve double?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
What big seat? Well you know what they say, No,
what big feet, big boots? There you go. I knew
I heard that somewhere. There's from Peewey's playoffs. So back
to the story. Here's what's going on in Wisconsin. You
got this Floorshim gentleman. He's Paul Floorsheim, grandson of the
(17:04):
founder of Floorshim Shoes. This has nothing to do with anything,
nothing to do with anything. He lives a lot near
the lake and for fifty years, this gentleman has walked
his dogs up and down the beach of Lake Michigan.
This is not like a local little pond of Lake Michigan.
He has walked up and down the beach. Well, and
(17:27):
I'm sorry to report to you, Dennis out there, but
this involves a dentist. A dentist really gets to wear
This is driving him nuts because he owns a property
on Lake Michigan. Again, this is Lake Michigan.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, this can't be the only guy walking around on him.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
But this guy, this dentist, gets a real case of
the ass about this. His name's Daniel Domagala. Fifty feet
from the water's edge. He has a tiki hut, like
a Jimmy Buffett looking tiki hut.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It puts off major Jimmy Buffett vibes, except for the
giant keep outside. It's like he's he like he's got
like like you can picture. Buffet is never going to
write a song about keeping people off the beach off
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it would be so
Unbuffet like. But this guy's got a little Jimmy Buffett
(18:24):
tiki hut. And in there he's got alarms that when
people come on the beach he blasts them with alarms
to drive them away.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
In one summer last summer, the dentist Do mcgawa called,
by his own admission, and one summer he called the
cops fifty times to complain about people walking down the
Lake Michigan shoreline. Now, in Michigan and in most places,
(18:59):
when you imagine in the shoreline of a lake it's
a legal definition. It's like it's the shoreline is from
the average low water line to the average high water line.
And you'll even see in legal definitions, even from the
Supreme Court, even pointing out there's like a debris line
where seaweed collects, a line where you can visually see
(19:23):
the impact of waves.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Like if you're walking in wet sand, you're good.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yes, because you're seeing the impact of waves. It's just
defined to define. But in Wisconsin years ago, back in
nineteen twenty three, a guy that was water and cattle
in Lake Winnebago got in a dispute with a guy
that was walking down the lake and somehow, out of
this cattle argument came this idea that Wisconsin doesn't accept
(19:50):
average high water average low water and Wisconsin, you gotta
be in the water because they pegged it to navigation
and you're not doing navigation out of the water. And
usually it's okay. But because this dentist having a conniption
all the time, the cops finally came out and they're like,
(20:12):
I gotta give you a ticket. This guy won't stop
calling on you. He takes it to village court. Okay,
he goes to village court and the judge says, my
hands are bound because of this. I'm trying to think
because of Domal v. Jance.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
He's stilling the floorshine guy. His hands are tired, the judge.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
The judge says, I gotta make you guilty.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I have to make you guilty because I'm bound by
Domal v. Chance, which is a nineteen twenty three Supreme
Court of Wisconsin finding about this dispute between a guy
watering cattle in Lake Winnebago and a guy on the shoreline,
an access dispute. But the judge holds out. I don't know.
(21:01):
Maybe it's time that gets overturned because we're out of
step with other states.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So Floorsheim is appealing this.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I saw a quote from this said he ain't like.
He ain't taking this quietly.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
No, he u'nbagging down. I'm bagging down. What's funny is
they sent a photographer out to take a photograph of him,
and for the photograph he's standing out and angle deep water.
But he's standing out in front. I noted that he's
standing out in front of the Jimmy Buffett tiki and
ankle deep water for the articles. So then that guy's
(21:37):
probably in there just praying. Then he walks up on
the sand, you know. Uh, so that that's going on,
and this is like, this has major implications because think
about the length of shoreline. We're talking about Wisconsin's Lake
Michigan shoreline, and what's happening here is people are building
(21:59):
seas and other obstructions to make it that like, to
force it that you'd have to go around up on
the beach. But then saying, hey, you can't go up
on the beach. I just can't believe.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
This.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
The dentist is saying, he's equating it to a home invasion.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
He's like, if someone comes in your house, what are
you gonna do? Because this old timer is walking along
the beach and got out of the water. So there's
two things. There's the legal of it all, and I
love it that he's I love it that he's appealing this.
There's the legal of it all, and there's also just
the like when you wake up in the morning, man, like,
(22:41):
what kind of dude do you want to be that day?
Do you want to call the cops fifty times? Because
there's an old man walking not with his toes in
the water down the beach.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I mean, if that guy was like walking down the
beach and his dog was taking a crap right by
the Tiki.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Day and you know his dogs are leashed.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I'm just saying like, if he had a good he
doesn't have a good reason.
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So when when Florsheim argued his case, he argued on
the public trust doctrine, m okay, he said, because of
public trust doctrine and these other court cases like that
established that that like duck hunters could duck hunt out
in front of private property, all this historical stuff. But
(23:27):
again it was thrown out because this had gone to
Wisconsin State Supreme Court. So maybe he'll get it overturned.
There's also old legal stuff from the admission of the
state of the admission of Wisconsin into the state, and
that has said anything that flows into the Mississippi or
(23:47):
the Saint Lawrence it should be open to navigation, but
points out because you had to do portaging. It has
language that basically says and the walk king routes because
of course you had the portage.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
So it's a really.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Confused legal picture. I wish the guy look that's the
end of my news story.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
It does look like a nice tiki hut. Yeah, really nice.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's a great place to sit for yourself.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
And margarite and a yell at old man, he's not
representative of the island mindset.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And yello at old man walking along.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
All right, we're going back to the Colorado Wolf Desk.
We haven't been there in a while. This just came
out recently that the actually incident happened in March. But
a ranch ham working at the Nottingham Ranch in western
Colorado shot and killed a female gray wolf from the
King Mountain pack. That happened on March tenth, and it
(24:52):
turns out she was like the matriarch of a pack.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
They had.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
They had pupps last year. The mate had died during
a collaring operation just a couple of months before the female.
The female died, so these pups are now like without
their their parents, their leaders. So you know, people are
on top of it.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
The ranch hand and the ranch manager came forward and
and like they weren't trying to cover this up, but
the details that where it gets kind of weird, as
the way they described is the wolf was like threatening
cows they run eleven cattle on this ranch. It's like
(25:38):
it's a cow calf operation. And according to the ranch owner,
Susie Nottingham, the employee fired two warning shots before killing
the wolf as it moved towards cows with the young calves.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
So during the I saw this, it didn't actually take
a bite.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
No, no, no, it was it was quote threatening the wolves.
And this is why it's like a big deal because
there's legality question involved, like like what does a wolf
have to be doing before it's legal to kill it?
Because under Colorado's.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, I don't think he was going up to say hi, no,
but no do that.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
But there's this experimental population rule right, which says ranchers
may legally kill wolves if they're caught actively attacking livestock,
working dogs, threatening human safety, et cetera. Conservation groups are
obviously arguing the thing was not actively attacking, right, and
it should involve criminal penalties under the Endangered Species Act.
(26:39):
So it's a real like test case for for like,
what a wolf has to be doing before a rancher
can legally, you know, legally kill it. Was it in
the Act, What constitutes an imminent threat? What evidence is involved?
In this situation, did the ranch comply with reporting rules,
which it seems like they probably.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Is there any mention of yardage?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
No, I didn't find any specific distance.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That'll probably be certainly be part of the investigation because
it approaching it at fifty yards, yeah, or it approaching
it at ten feet or really different things.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Oh, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But you also have to think if it's a calf,
it was calving season. Yeah, so if it's a calf,
it's not going to be a really long time between
it getting no getting a hold of it and you
having a.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Problem, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And yeah, they're very vulnerable that time of year, both
both the mothers and the cows. And you know, I
personally think you got to give rancher some leeway in
this situation. It's not as if it doesn't sound like
(27:54):
they were like out hunting wolves.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right to the other part of it. They came clean
right off.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
The bat, yeah, exactly, which if.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
You like, yeah, you know, there's a slight parallel to
this would be that in a situation where being threatened
by a grizzly bear you might kill it self defense,
it's gonna get investigated, yep. And they're gonna come out
and do like a regular forensic analysis, like where was
the bear, where are the tracks, where's the shell casings?
And sometimes you'll read yep, where they're like, yeah, he
(28:25):
was in imminent danger. And sometimes you read where they
feel like they got a little jumpy. Yeah, and maybe
and maybe this would lead to some level of distance,
some kind of physical distance at which you could take action.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, some kind of guideline on where you can get
away with it. Interestingly, just about less than a week ago,
a few days ago, Colorado and Parks they killed a
wolf lethally removed a wolf after repeated livestock depredations. That
particular wolf was involved with it in the desk of
(28:57):
at least twenty four sheep. So like, yes, this other
wolf hadn't killed anything yet, but but like, it's not
as if CPW isn't going in and killing wolves that
are that are killing livestock. In fact, the state has
a released twenty five wolves in the last couple of years.
(29:17):
Fourteen of those have died, not all of them and
incidents like this, but several have been killed because of
livestock depredation.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So where does that do you know, where does that
population sit right now thirty two and how many were
moved into the state.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Twenty five, So fourteen of those originals twenty five are dead,
so eleven of the originals are alive. That would lead
to twenty one that were born in the States in
the last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
So they're taking hold.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Yep, we'll see what happens. Like I don't know what
will happen to that pack that no longer has like
a matriarch or a patriarch.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You know what for a while is real big on
that word an apophesis offices is bringing something up by
saying you're not going to bring it up, right? What
you do when you're like fighting with your wife, you
know the example I use is you go like your
wife would usually say to you, maybe should be like,
I'm not even gonna talk about what happened on Friday.
That's an aypothesis. Yeah, Brody and I decided not to
(30:19):
cover a story about some some guys in Colorado. We're
not covering this some guys in Colorado who are saying
since the twenty since the twenty sixteen election was.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Rigged, No, twenty twenty was rigged.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well no, because that because that wasn't rigged.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Twenty twenty was the one Biden one.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
What am I saying? Yeah, sorry, you're right, sorry twenty twenty. Yeah,
since the twenty twenty election was rigged, it must have
been that the Wolf vote was rigged.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Too, Yes, and they want to over therefore.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
It didn't actually pass because we all know it was rigged. Yes,
and they probably rigged that too, but we weren't gonna
cover that story because I just need to read about
it more.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
But just so, but.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
That's that's a thing.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
But yeah, we'll keep an eye on this to see
if they end up charging this guy or not. I'm
gonna predict they don't.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I'm gonna predict they don't if they did something totally fishy.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Like went and shot some puppies in a den or
something that.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They would have not They wouldn't have said, hey, send
someone over. This just happened, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But that's right.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And the other thing is I forgot this little detail.
I think you might have mentioned it. It wasn't even
that it was the ranch owner that reported.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yes, So she's like the Nottingham's. This is like a
little editorializing. But having spent a lot of time in
that air. Like the Nottinghams are like an old school,
like well to do Eagle County family.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think they. I don't think they
feel like they got anything to hide and they're just
laying it out.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Yep, yep, my old stopping grounds right there. Man, who's next?
Speaker 6 (32:07):
You I am.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I'm going to.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
Get back to you.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I gotta figure this out. What am I doing?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Horseshit news stories?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Man, Bill, can you pull up that picture?
Speaker 6 (32:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
This is the weirdest this, This one is the weirdest
thing was.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I don't spend a ton of time on Instagram, but
I don't know what A couple of weeks ago I
sent this to you, Steve. I was scrolling through and
this came up. This is the name of this page
is Outstanding. It's out with two t's standing it called
the description is curating business, technology and breaking news in
(32:44):
one place. Three hundred and forty two thousand followers, including
some people I know that you can see who follows
different pages, and so they said this. Conservationists confirmed while
jaguars breeding uh in the United States for the first
time in decades. Trail camera YadA YadA. If you go
on to read what the post has to say, it'll
(33:06):
say that trail cameras in June twenty twenty six caught
pictures of a female jaguar with cubs in the Arizona Wilderness,
like the Sky Island areas that we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Before, like by twelve two hundred people, shared by three
four hundred and eighteen people.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Even goes on to say that there's strongly suggests that
a breeding population is establishing itself north of the border,
and that the female and cubs were found in areas
monitored by the University of Arizona Wildcat Research and Conservation Center.
So I'm looking at this and I'm like, Wow, that's amazing, right,
(33:47):
But then I'm like, huh.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It would be reported everywhere?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yes, Like I immediately went to Google and like typed
in some stuff that would lead to any news articles
surrounding this event. Couldn't find any, but like Google AI
kind of went on to confirm what this instagram from from.
Just so the lesson is, Like, the lesson is like,
(34:14):
if you're getting news from not and all, you probably
know this, But if you're getting news from social media
or AI, like man, you just gotta be careful if you're.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Wondering how long to boil like a hard boiled egg. Yeah,
the AI over you can save you a lot of time.
It comes to anything slightly complicated.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
And and I can't tell if this, this outstanding page
is even written by humans. It may be completely AI generally, but.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
The point this is not true.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah, this is and and like this, this this page
appears like a legit news page. It has some legitimate
news stories on the page. But anyway, I got suspicious
emailed our our resident wild life biology expert, Jim Hefflefinger
from Arizona, from Arizona, and immediately he's like, this seems
(35:06):
like it's probably horseshit.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Horseshoot, yes, one.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Hundred dollars to.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Some other kids.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
He I feel like that's not that doesn't go horsesh
it shouldn't be concluded in there.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
Yeah, anyway, Phil, I would like to point out that this,
this writer says, I know, Phil does a good job
at bleeping them out, but it's not enough.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah. Sorry, sorry, I forgot to tell you that.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
This kid said. This kid said, sorry, Brody interrupted news.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
We'll get back.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
He thinks Randall should host more roast episodes.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
Huh, don't tell you honest, don't.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Tell you honest. Back to half a finger, he did
some digging and he right off the bat he smelled
a rat. He did some dig in with some of
his colleagues and basically, yes, it's a hoax and less
some legitimate detail surface and.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
I mentioned, you know this is I looked, it's not real.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Oh, I know, it's not I mentioned this could create
headaches for wildlife managers. And yet, like one of his colleagues,
seems to constantly be dealing with stuff like this, like
the one there was a post that came out about uh,
Mexican wolf releases going on that that had never it
(36:33):
never happened.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
So that he said, there's a photo. So there was
an article about them releasing Mexican wolves in northern Arizona
with a photo. Well it turns out the photo was
from Mexico.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
So yeah, even wildlife management is getting hit by this
stuff now.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Oh yeah, And Heffelfinger said this too, that fake article,
the fake article about wolves, which is like, what a
weird thing to fake even had fake maps with fake
GPS tracks on it. What are you gaining from that?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I don't get it. But the problem. The problem is
it's like not to like pat our own back here,
like we're able to recognize this stuff. A lot of
people that saw that would just be like assume that
it's true. There's like no reason for them to think
that it's not true.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Right, That's why you got to come to the news
show for your news.
Speaker 6 (37:25):
Yeah, formerly trained news.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Because we check off, we dig into everything and check
it out. Man, most try to dupe us, so we
get on the phone and call people.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Suckers over the fishing desk.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
A new record was set at the sixty eighth Annual
Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament, which I talked about this
with the whole Omnisoonar thing a few weeks back, with
a blue marlin that was nine hundred and nineteen point
nine pounds, big old thing. The previous record was nine
hundred and fourteen pounds.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That's like a bunch of me laying there. They say,
how long that like me and me and me and me.
I don't know how many times A bunch of times
laying there.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
Yeah, slightly big pile of these. Unfortunately it's slightly less
than four of me.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
They mentioned when they I saw a news article when
they brought it in. They mentioned that the head of
the fish was in the in the saloon of the boat.
It was so long didn't fit on the whole back deck.
The boat, Marlon Fever, which is a sixty three foot
jet bay from Wilson County, North Carolina, was the boat
that brought in the giant fish. Boat's captain by Captain
(38:40):
Cameron gut three and the angler who caught the fish
was eighteen year old Connor Daniel. Young kid, Yeah, young kid.
Which you saw that the fish was twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, that fish was two when that dude was born.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah, I bet that fish.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Felt a disturbance in the force in his second year.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, oh yeah. I don't like catching fish older than me.
I'm out to it. I'll eat them, but I don't
like it.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
So this fish was the heaviest fish ever weighed in
the tournament's history, and the payout for this fish. It
won two categories and the total payout was uh six million,
five hundred and thirteen seven dollars fifty cents.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
That is that has got to be taxed in a
very burdensome way. Like I just feel like when you
go to the irs and you're like, hey, I won
six million bucks in a fishing contest. That it's not
like it's that they have a special way they're going
to handle that, you.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Know, uh slide, let's get these guys desk.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
Our friend Brandon Pollinick was telling me one time that
their their tournament, like their tournaments are in different states,
you know, so they get they taxed for their winnings
in every state all the day, weigh all different ways.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
There's probably good states to win in bad states to
win in six million, five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
And it's the largest single boat winning in the tournament
sixty eight years.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And that's the biggest tournament.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
Yeah wow, there's only ever been six blue marlin in
the history of this tournament, weighing over seven hundred pounds
brought to the scales.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Can you imagine duking it out with that fish once
you started realizing what you had so two hours and
then when you're like, hey man, you know, be careful
with the gaff because that's you know, six million dollars.
Your kid's like, I'm got.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
A gaff it.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
So this fish was caught on day two of the tournament.
It's a six day tournament, but you're you can fish
for the six days, so you can choose like what
days depending on whether and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
As the people who are like forget it, I keep.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Aude, Yeah, but I mean you could.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
You can still potentially win more, you know, second, second
or third place, which is you know, still a bunch
of money. Yep.
Speaker 8 (41:17):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
So this fish won the overall heaviest blue marlin category
and also it won the Fabulous Fisherman Prize, which is
the first blue marlin brought to the scales during the
tournament that weighed over five hundred pounds and that comes
with the prize of eight hundred and seventy one thousand.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Dollars in addition or no, that's just.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Part of part of the perst.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Yeah, but yeah, if you bring in the first blue
marlin weighing over five hundred pounds, that's how much money
you win.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
So this boat, fender Bender catches a six forty four, yep,
and that's not good enough.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
That's the second place.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Second place fish was caught by fender Bender sixty four,
and the third place fish was Haphazard, brought in by
Haphazard weighing six thirty five great boat names. The total
payout split between forty seven money winners was nine million
dollars thirty eight and twenty five. There was a total
(42:17):
of two hundred and seventy boats that fished the tournament.
And just to compare this fish to the current world record,
not even close blue marlin, Yeah, not even close. She
caught nineteen ninety two off the coast of Brazil, weighed
for just over fourteen hundred pounds.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Amazing and this slifting that there's still fish that big
out in the ocean.
Speaker 6 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Uh. Seth had another thing that he didn't think was
worth putting in his story. Would you like to show wow?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I was, I was gonna mention it.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
But the I read that the this fish had I
read two sailfish in his stomach.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Kind yes and no, it had a sailfish in its stomach,
and it had a different sailfish's bill lodged under its
gill covered man and he's still out eating.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
I wonder if they if that's just like him trying
to eat like the one in the gills, if he's
trying to eat it, or if they are like duking
it like.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
My theory, And I don't know, I just read it.
I thought that he get in a fight with a
sailfish or was he trying to eat and it got
jammed over. I think it was like if you're eating
northern pike and you wind up with a bone stuck
in your throat. That's my theory something like that's the
equivalent of you're having a pike bone in your throat.
Is him having a billfish bill and his gill? Yeah,
(43:43):
but I don't know. You have to ask him.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
It's gotta be a tough fish to eat.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
For fourteen hundred pounds for the world record, world record
blue marlin.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Size of a lask of bull moose.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
And I can't believe also that you can kick one
of those off years.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Now me and Seth want to get invited to that tournament,
but I only want to go if we can catch
a couple of wahu and some tuna just for eating.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
There.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
There are some categories for for tuna and like dolphin
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
If you guys go out and cess walleye boat.
Speaker 6 (44:19):
I think if you just troll.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
My heat, there is an outboard division if you pick.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Up If you pick up a nine hundred pounder on
day two, you should be fine to just go out
and fill the fish for the freezer.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
So if you need a couple of guys to sit
around who don't know the first thing about marlin fishing, uh,
we're both interested.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, I would love to go and just check it out.
Just watch ye.
Speaker 6 (44:41):
Off to New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Off to New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (44:46):
So there's a story.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
There's a couple of interrelated stories here that I'm gonna
thread together. And the first one is there's a recent
article or I guess a recent news story about a
high profile case of tag for but it speaks to
a larger discussion about opportunity allocation in New Mexico. So,
(45:08):
three guys associated with Big Horn Outfitters were obtaining ELK
tags through the resident draw system and then transferring them
to non residents in exchange for payment. And so what
they did is they created fake hunter profiles, fake names,
fake fake accounts. They drew tags and then requested medical
(45:28):
transfers to their clients. And so in the state of
New Mexico, you can get a doctor's note and then
instead of that tag going back into the draw for
the next Joe public hunter, you can designate who receives
your tag when you turn it in. So they're creating
all these fake accounts drawing tag.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Those dudes are all getting sick.
Speaker 5 (45:50):
They're all getting sick. Yeah, and they're forging the doctor's notes.
And so these guys were charged with wire fraud and
LASIAC violations. Even still, it's really bizarre that they were
able to draw this many tags, Like they drew thirteen
resident ELK tags with twenty nine fake profiles and there
(46:12):
so there's some speculation that they had even more fake
accounts that were that were.
Speaker 6 (46:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
I mean, this is all correct me if I'm wrong,
And this is all linked to the fact that, like
ELK tags are notoriously difficult to draw for non residents
in New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
ELK tags correct, well, I can attest, yes.
Speaker 5 (46:32):
So what's interesting here, Mark, And the other thing is this,
this could not happen as far as I know, most
Western states. You couldn't pull this off, right, because you
can't just transfer tags like that. And what was interesting
to me about this is the US attorney who announced
the indictment. His quote says, as a hunter, I know
(46:55):
it's extraordinarily difficult for New Mexico residents to draw ELK tags.
In fact, many New Mexicans who apply annually wait years,
sometimes decades to draw coveted tag and when the opportunity
to fill their freezer with elk, and so.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
That's premium unit.
Speaker 5 (47:11):
Yeah, but still it is relatively speaking, it is hard
for New Mexicans to draw elk tags. And allocation of
tags in New Mexico would probably shock most people who
are familiar with how this works in other states. Every
Western state has landowner and outfitter tags and it's weighed
(47:36):
against public opportunity. But in New Mexico it's something like
sixty to seventy percent of tags go to the general
public and about thirty percent are private, whereas in most
states they reserve more than ninety percent for your just
any person applying to hunt. So it's ten times the norm.
(48:00):
It depends by species. In terms of antelope tags, New Mexico,
almost sixty five percent of them are just privately distributed.
Sixteen percent of all big horn sheep tags are privately distributed.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
And a lot of those tags you can then go
online and like it's like a bidding war for these tags.
Speaker 5 (48:22):
So the private tags, what we're calling private tags here
divided between a mandated outfitter set aside, and then the
private landowner tag system. The private landowner tag system accounts
for the majority of those. I think it's like eight
to one something like that of these private tags, and
they can sell or trade them on the open market,
(48:43):
ostensibly the reason being to help offset the financial costs
of managing wildlife. The other thing that's sort of unique
to New Mexico is in most states where there are
landowner tags, their requirements for allowing public access to private lands.
New Mexico does not do this. It's just cutting off
a big old chunk of the public resource and sliding
(49:06):
it across.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Because you gotta. But I want to jump in here
and explain a part of that. Sure you will see
like in some states, I believe Colorado's this way, you
might see a open unit or closed unit landowner tag.
If you let's say you have a rancher and they
(49:27):
own a ranch.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Can I explain open and closed unit?
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:31):
I think this is what you're getting at some tags.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
What I'm fixing to explain, Okay, go ahead. I'm trying
to paint a scenario. Let's say you're in a Let's
say you have an area there, you have an area
where you have a private ranch in a county and
there's also a ton of national forests in the county
and the rancher. The rancher's got twenty thousand acres and
(49:54):
he gets two elk tags every year that he can
sell as a way to offset his inconvenience for hosting wildlife.
But you'd think so when he has his landowner tag,
it must mean that whoever buys that tag from him
hunts his ranch. It's not that way. If it's an
(50:15):
open unit tag, he can sell you the tag and
you don't even touch his property. You can go hunt
the national forest. So you got guys buying landowner tags
hunting public land. But there are what state has a
closed unit one?
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Colorada has both, so they all have tags where you
can only hunt the landowner's land and then you can
hunt the other what you were talking about, where you
can go anywhere in the unit and hunt.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (50:44):
Yeah, so this I mean again, this happens in every state.
And there's it's like a spectrum of how favored one.
Speaker 6 (50:55):
Side of the pie is versus the other.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
I've bought I've bought of these in my life. In
New Mexico, I bought a landowner prong horn. I bought
a landowner elk tag in my lifetime. Full disclosure here.
Speaker 5 (51:07):
Yeah, and you can't get mad at the player, exactly right.
It's the system, Like landowners and outfitters are defending the
status quo. Tag buyers are participating in the system as
the system's designed.
Speaker 6 (51:21):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (51:21):
The issue is lawmakers who are who are stacking the
deck in this way, right, policymakers who are stacking the
deck in this way. There's two stories that relate to
this that could set the stain, set the stage for
a change in how this works. And and again it's
like it's not happening anytime soon, or it's not happening immediately.
(51:46):
But there's one lawsuit that was just settled. Some landowners
in the western part of the state in Catching County,
claimed there are too many elk and it resulted in
an unconstitutional taking of their property. They wanted additional compensation
from the state because the elk were eating their grass.
(52:06):
They're saying that there's so many elk they have to
reduce the size of their herds. Some of them are
saying they have to sell their ranches because the elk
are eating too much, and their claim is that the
state intentionally introduced a non native elk herd, managed its
population to grow dramatically, and knowingly relied on private lands
to sustain the herd. This went to district court, which
(52:27):
ruled that the unconstitutional taking of property claims were invalid,
but it left open the question of whether or not
the elk could be considered a nuisance that the state
has imposed. And then the state Court of Appeals upheld
the rejection of the unconstitutional taking of property question and
went further throughout the idea that elk can be a nuisance,
(52:50):
or that more technically, that the state could be responsible
for any nuisances caused by elk.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
So backfired on that, dude.
Speaker 5 (52:58):
Yeah, and the state so the quotes from the quotes
from the decision are like, reaffirmed that the people own
the elk, the state manages them, and it sort of
says the elk exists, the elk have a right to
be there, they say, because the state is viewed as
the trustee for and not an owner of wildlife. Governments
(53:19):
that regulate the well being of wildlife do not have
a reliability for the actions of that wildlife. And it
also goes on to say the regulations that these guys
are complaining about, says none of the regulations require authorized
elk on private properties, nor do they prevent property owners
from building fences to keep them out. So in some ways,
the court is pushing back against sort of entitlement by
(53:45):
landowners to compensation for the wildlife, and it kind of
draws redraws a bit the boundaries of that relationship, right,
because a lot of these privatization of tags their product
of the acknowledgment that landowners do sustain wildlife and and
(54:05):
that's legitimate, but the state is kind of drawing a line,
or the court is sort of drawing a line in
the sand there.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
I would be curious to hear if this individual, like
how many elk tags are available in this area, right,
And if this individual is allowing hunters to access his
property to hunt and there and thereby disperse the elkerds, right,
(54:36):
Or if it's well, I don't want anyone on my land,
but I don't want the elk here either.
Speaker 5 (54:42):
Well, yeah, that's that's where a lot of That's where
a lot of these conversations end up. It's like there
are tools available in the toolbox it's just if some
landowners don't want to utilize public hunting pressure.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
It sounds like this guy just wants some payment, yeah,
for the fact that he's being inconvenient additional payment.
Speaker 6 (55:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:01):
And So the other story that ties to this, and
this is more directly related to the question of tag allocation,
is that on April twenty ninth, lawmakers in New Mexico
wrote to the Attorney General about two questions they had.
Speaker 6 (55:18):
About the current tag allocation.
Speaker 5 (55:20):
System, noting that it seems to be in quote significant
tension with the anti donation clause in the state Constitution
and the New Mexico's Constitution. There's an anti donation clause
that prohibits the state and other governing bodies from making
donations of public funds or property two or an aid
of any private person, association, or corporation. So the two
(55:44):
questions that the lawmakers specifically raised had to do with
mandatory outfitter licenses under a set percentage. And one of
the reasons that this is sort of politically I guess
like one of the reasons that a a New Mexico
lawmaker might question that to make political hey, is that
ninety percent of those outfitter tags are going to non residents.
(56:08):
Got it, it's out of state money buying these tags
instead of these tags going to the people of New
Mexico who own the wildlife.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah, it's it's like they're making donations exactly.
Speaker 4 (56:18):
Go.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
This is the kind of law dog And like I
always thought I wanted to be a lawyer on sweepstakes
and raffle law. But this kind of law dog and
is real interesting wildlife and justice.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
And I mean kind of looking out for the residents
of New Mexico goes along with what's happening in some
other states already, right, Like you're seeing states that are
taking extra steps to make sure that residents get more
of the available tag.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Right that is it? Very compelling legal argument.
Speaker 5 (56:46):
Yeah, and so they they say, their quote in the
letter is we know of no other state. This is
in reference to outfitter licenses. We know of no other
state that confers such a benefit, ultimately creating a system
where those with the greatest wealth from a loss the
country have a better chance of hunting New Mexico's public
lands than average New Mexicans.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
They're taking the populace.
Speaker 5 (57:08):
Yeah, and specifically, something to note here they're they're talking
about outfitter tags, not landowner tags, which if you're talking
about creating more opportunity for New Mexicans to hunt big
game animals, you'd take aim at those landowner tags because
there are way more landowner tags and outfitter tags.
Speaker 6 (57:28):
But here we have it.
Speaker 5 (57:29):
Here, we have a case of of lawmakers kind of
standing up for democratic allocational wildlife. So I don't want
to pooh pooh it. But on the other hand, there's
bigger fish to fry. If you want to see more
New Mexicans enjoying that opportunity, count files Phil.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
Out to put up a like a video of Dude
Stern a big ol'd pot soup with a canoe paddle man,
because these dudes are stirring the pot.
Speaker 4 (57:52):
How about how about a stun.
Speaker 5 (57:57):
A screeching eagle, a screeching with an American if.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
You have like a hat and said law dog and
this big old pot with like elk antlers sticking out
of it with a canoe paddle.
Speaker 3 (58:08):
I did see something that if they reduce the number
of those guaranteed outfitter tags, the non residence would still
end up booking the outfitters anyway.
Speaker 5 (58:21):
Right, the The other thing that the lawmakers are questioning
is the fact that in New Mexico, for big horn
sheep licenses, which are you know, that's the biggest dollars
there are in terms of hunting opportunity. The way that
they do it is they combine the hunting units to
determine how many big horn tags go to the private
(58:44):
pool versus the public pool. Every other species, they're issuing
these licenses and dividing them up on a per unit basis,
but they're combining all the units for big horns, and
as a result, the number of licenses counted for determining
how many outfitters is artificial increased.
Speaker 1 (59:02):
Can I I don't understand, But can I explain please
part of this and then you can explain part of
it too. I just want I want listeners to get
a grip on what we're saying. Sure, Montana is ten
percent cap right, so Montana caps like take big horn sheep.
No more than ten percent of the big horn sheep
(59:22):
tag allocation in Montana can go to non residents. But
you have units that only give out one big horn
sheep tag. So you would say, well, how in the
world could a non resident ever get the tag if
there's only one in that unit. So what they do
is they do it region by region. You count up
(59:46):
how many big horn sheep tags are available in all
of Region three, which is combined by many units. So
say in all of Region three there are twenty big
horn sheep tags. Therefore two can go to non residents,
and it could wind up being that a non resident
holds the only big horn sheep tag in a unit.
(01:00:06):
With that said, I don't understand what you're saying, so.
Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
I think one of the problems is that they only
do this for big horns. They don't do it for
other animals. My understanding is that, like in you're if
they were too, if they were to chop up that
pie into smaller pieces to determine before determining who gets what,
(01:00:30):
it would sort of incrementally the percentages would drop.
Speaker 6 (01:00:34):
If that makes Does that make any.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Sense, I'd have to have a really good math person
who's used to explaining stuff the children. Yeah, I think,
come in and tell me about it.
Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
I think the idea is that, like, because they have
to round, they have to round up or round down.
As the pie grows, it rounds up further. I couldn't
actually explain it in any details, especially.
Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
I should that right off the bat.
Speaker 5 (01:00:59):
Yeah, but the lawmakers to get back to this letter.
The lawmakers say, taking each of these issues individually and together,
what are the constitutional implications in terms of the state's
obligation to manage New Mexico wildlife in trust for the
benefit of the people of the state. So the Attorney
General has not issued a response yes yet to this.
(01:01:23):
It should be happening any day now.
Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
So a lawmaker can go A lawmaker can go to
the Attorney general and say, can you justify this to me?
Speaker 5 (01:01:35):
Yeah, they're looking for an opinion.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yeah, and then he's got to come back and go, man,
it really doesn't make any sense exactly. I don't know
why that's legal or whatever.
Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think, like the big picture,
you might be the listener might be thinking, I don't
live in New Mexico. I'm never going to hunt New Mexico.
Why does this matter for me? And the folks that
I talked I should say I talked to people in
New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (01:02:04):
Jesse de Bell from New Mexico Wildlife Federation.
Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
They they point out that New Mexico could be a
cautionary tale for other states, because again, this is a
it's not something that's like by itself unique to New Mexico.
It's a it's a sliding scale, and in other states
they have similar programs, but it's slid way far in
(01:02:31):
one direction. In New Mexico and and last year's Montana
legislative session, they talked about transferable landowner tags.
Speaker 6 (01:02:38):
It's probably gonna come up again.
Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
Wyoming there was just a push for transferable landowner tags
and that kind of got killed, but it's going to
come back in another legislative session. So once you make
these tags transferable, it opens up Pandora's box for this
sort of the fraud case that I started with. But
(01:03:00):
all in all, like people own the wildlife, and it's
just like democracy, people own the wildlife, you should be
able to have a say in how it's how it's
done right. And New Mexico too, like stream acxis, it's
New Mexico's sort of on the front lines of privatization
of public resources. And they just had all these stream
(01:03:21):
access cases where guys are barbed wiring and concertina wiring
streams to prevent people from accessing them. There's guys digging
out river channels they're too deep to wade. And just
like the compliance with stream acxis, there's there are people
in New Mexico who are seeing how far they can
(01:03:41):
push it in terms of privatizing some of these resources.
So I think we should all be paying attention to that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I don't want to condemn any state that does landowner tags. Yeah,
and I'm sure there's places where it's where it's beneficial
to some sectors and some user groups, and I'm not
here to condemn it. I'll say this though, if I
(01:04:08):
lived in a state that did not have transferable landowner
tags and someone was proposing to make that a new thing,
I would stand in opposition to that. Yeah, I would
want to. I would want to maintain the status quo
of not doing that in a situation where we were
(01:04:30):
asking whether we should start doing it. Not to say
that places should walk back because they might have a
successful system, but I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want
to be in a state where that went into play.
Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
Yeah, and it's a push and pull right, There's you know,
whenever you talk about opportunity allocation, there's people that should say, oh,
we should get rid of points. We should make it
a random draw. We should, and then you get into
the questions of read but.
Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
I have a lot of points though, idea.
Speaker 8 (01:04:58):
Well, that's the thing, and every New mex there doesn't
due point. Everybody has the right to say what they
think should happen, you know, and they're the people that
stand to benefit from undemocratic allocation.
Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
They're definitely making their voices heard. So if you're someone
out there who's sort of a wildlife populus, you should
weigh into.
Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
You know, like nimby wouldn't be if you were saying,
not in my tag holder envelope.
Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
Nim nimph, nim nimbi.
Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Yeah, not my tagholder envelope. Yes, I would say. If
New Mexico also is like, hey, we're kicking in points,
I would be like, well, your sons of bitches better
go back in time and give me my twenty points
that I never got. I was like, just better be retroactive.
Speaker 5 (01:05:49):
Yeah, yeah, I I don't know. I'm you know, it's like,
as hunters, we should be having these conversations, and like
when you look at New Mexico on its face, for me,
it's kind of like, man, I feel for the people there.
Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Yeah, and it always you know, like you get like
you get a sort of like a state establishes a reputation,
you know, and now then you'll hear a story out
of the state and you just won't be surprised. Meaning
when Texas said, Hey, even though Texas historically had Elk,
we're going to all of a sudden now pretend that
Elk are non native. I no disrespect to Texas. I
(01:06:27):
loved I like going there. I love the place. I
was like, that feels so Texas. When I hear stuff
out of New Mexico, I'm like, that doesn't feel New Mexico.
Speaker 5 (01:06:37):
It's real close to Texas geographically, and I think there's
I think part of the reason why it's such a
hotbed for this stuff is there's that money and that influence,
oh shape.
Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Texas second homes.
Speaker 5 (01:06:52):
Yeah, at least with the stream access stuff. I know
that a lot of the a lot of the people
behind that, a lot of the people that are fighting
stream act SIS, it's it's people from Texas carpetbaggers.
Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
So for those that's what I think about watching Randall
threw his hands up in the air.
Speaker 6 (01:07:11):
You gotta get on YouTube for that.
Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
That's right. Do you want to see Randall throw his
hands in the air.
Speaker 5 (01:07:16):
You go check us out on YouTube and subscribe and
now Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
That's true. I heard, I heard app as well.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Thanks for joining everyone the only place to get the
straight news no bs. See you next week.
Welcome to the news show. This week, We've got a
lake access dispute Wisconsin that you really need to pay
attention to. We got a new word neo native, that
you really need to learn. A ranch hand, and Colorado
kills a wolf and that needs to be Okay, Seth
catches a nine hundred and nineteen point nine pound blue marlin,
(00:26):
or at least he'll tell you about one. AI is
being used to make up and push fake wildlife news.
Randall digs into an ELK scandal as well as some
ELK bs and more. But first, we never do this, yeah,
(00:46):
from the newspile, from the paper newspile. It's nice, oh,
mixing it up.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's like old school.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Why I never read the mail that comes in the mail.
I'm gonna cut this one short. This guy, he's a kid,
he's thirteen, he said, but not to my main point.
But not at my main point. I would love for
you guys to do your best at not cussing on air.
I really don't enjoy going to bed with Steve's son
(01:15):
of a bleep and Randall's mother bleep in my head.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Oh, I wasn't on the list.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
That makes me Happy'll someday I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
He says, every time you swear, you should put one
hundred dollars and donate it to a college bass fishing team.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh that's a good idea. That is a good idea.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Piper Nicholson wrote, He's a little kid. You tell why
I was writing. He wrote this nice letter. I mainly
took note of the envelope. It says, PS. I named
Apossum after you, Steve. So thank you very much to
Piper Nicholson. Oh, our punt vun our punt gun video
(01:57):
is finally coming out. Years ago we bought a punt
gun add auction for twenty thousand dollars. You're probably sticking
here and talk about the damn punk gun. It just
took us a bunch of the dang dand gurn punk gun. Sorry, sorry,
let's take his name as what's his name?
Speaker 5 (02:12):
I think it's Asa Asa Yeah, sorry, asah my cursive.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It took us forever to make the punt gun video.
Just it's very complicated. We explain why it took so
long in our punt gun video, which is out like now,
ish soon play a clip, Phil.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Oh, sure, let's load it up.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
So here this shows the punk gun. There's a swear word.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Got This is.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
The part of the punt gun video when we shoot
water melons. That's the punt gun cocking and that's the
punk gun going off, and that's the watermelons blowing up.
Ah La Gallagher. So tune it out. There's a we
shoot all kinds of stuff in the punt gun video.
I think you're gonna love it. Uh, Brody got a
(03:03):
truck camper and he's got something to say about that.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, I gotta. I posted a picture on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I don't know why I saw that picture.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah. So you know people are doing this a lot
these days, getting those like fold up truck top camper thing. Listen,
they're not I got a real but I'm yeah, I'm
getting called a Bozeman hipster forgetting one of those things.
For years, I just slept on a sleeping pad under
a regular topper. I got old and uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's not uncomfortable. My wife does that. She's not out
there trying to prove anything.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I just look, I just wanted it, like I had
a actually good reason for getting it. That's because if
we want to take the if we're going to camp
and take the boat with us, we would have to
take two rigs because we have a pop up camper
and a boat. Understood, Now, we can take one rig
in the boat and go camp.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
It's a cost saving thing. I'm just joking. I don't
think anything different of you.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, but I think these people don't really understand what
hipsters are. I don't think hipsters well.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Are like That's why he said Bozeman hipster.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
In fairness, they'd have.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Like a refurbished airstream or some ship like that.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
Sorry, in fairness to them.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Spencer Spencer Newhart is the primary advocate of truck top
campers in this He was.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And I used to make fun of him.
Speaker 6 (04:22):
Does he have one and he's ever made?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I'm looking forward to using that thing during deer season.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Man.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I've been thinking about getting one of Ali Baba once.
It's like it's like the same same thing you bought
it here, but like in the price, oh from that
like whatever that website?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, I understand? Uh? From here? Fourth here?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Ye, hear ye?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
From here? Fourth at first Light. First Light has a
new Camel for Conservation program. When you buy camo any
kind of camel clothes at first Light, a percent one
percent of that sale price goes directly to our conservation partners. Okay, uh,
straight up, when you buy camel at First Light, one
(05:10):
percent to our conservation partners. The program is called Camel
for Conservation. So check that out too. You see the
new Custer's Last Stand shirt.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I like it. I like the color, very colorful, very.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, pots man. So you know when you're taking a wig.
Speaker 7 (05:24):
Got him in the heart, huh Yeah, when you're taking
a whiz in the bathroom, you're looking at the here
fell Custer, and Custer's kind of like hunkered, like he's
sort of on the hands and knees dying.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
But down the hill there's a guy dying like this.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, can you fool your laptop down so we can
the audience go.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, So Custer's kind of dying in the lame way
in that painting. So when we wanted to do a
good Custer's Last Stand shirt, we we had the guy
down the hill bey Custer and modeled uh, just kind
of more zippy, you know, like his gun's going off.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
About flowing hair. You don't know this, he didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He got a cup for the campaign in that shirt. Yeah,
died short, short hair and he wasn't wearing the regulation hat,
and his wife, Libby Custer, had a wig made with
the hair he got cut off and wore it around.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Yeah, Sydney's going to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
My wife wouldn't be able to do that either.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, here's the deal. I said, there's a word neo
natives need to know. So Guy wrote in I'm a
PhD student in the Department of College, Department of Ecology
and Conservation Biology at Texas A and M University. He's
currently studying invasive species management in the Great Plains. Okay,
he's looking at all ed diet and their impact on
(06:45):
the Chiuahuan Desert ecosystem. That's him establishing his bona fides.
In the most recent episode, number eight ninety, concerning meal
deer in Alaska, Steve remarked that he wasn't sure whether
invasive was really an appropriate term for the mules in
this situation. He says he would have to agree with me,
(07:06):
and he put an exclamation point there. He says, in fact,
there's a new term for the expansion of native species
ranges into previously unoccupied areas. This new term is a
neo native for those taxa that have expanded geographically beyond
(07:27):
their native range, and that now have established populations whose
presence is due to human induced changes in the biophysical environment,
but not direct movement. Not direct movement. That's the perfect word.
I see. When I was complaining about there not being
(07:47):
a word for it, I didn't even think that you'd
go make one up.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It's great. And he does say like human influence like canals, roads, pipelines, tunnels,
Like we talked about neonative.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
It wasn't moved, but we did something that like created
the situation.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
We would be another neo native.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Well them of woody plants onto the great planes due
to insufficient grazing practice.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yes, yep, kyles for sure, Kyles for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
White tails all white tails.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, white tails are neo natives and all kinds of
new places. Yeah, it's a great term. I'm start using
it all the time.
Speaker 6 (08:23):
Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Whoever that guy was, Daniel, Thanks buddy.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
This next letter, next next email, I should say, uh
is something that we heard from a lot of folks,
and this is about the Big Oaks National Wildlife Refuge
in Madison, Indiana. He writes, this refuge has an amazing
history of once being a testing range for Army munitions.
To recreate here, you must attend an annual class about
the dangers of unexploded ordinances. In the refuge, it's open
(08:51):
to hunting. Turkey and deer. Opportunities are available through the
d NR's Reserved Hunt program, which is basically a draw
small game huntings open on a portion of the refuge.
The Fish and Wildlife Service has had an agreement with
the Army to continue it's hunting program, but they're considering
changes to the agreement due to budget problems. And he's saying,
(09:16):
is it expensive to let dudes hunt? Well, I think
it has to do with staffing. They had a big
rally in Madison about the possible closer of the refuge.
There's an online petition that you can sign, and this
guy's telling folks to write to their right to their
(09:38):
senators and voice support for big oaks n w R funding.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's funny because I don't think there's a day that
goes by that there's not a rally in Madison. But
the fact that there's a pro hunting rally in Madison
catches me by surprise.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
Madison, Indiana, Madison still a good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I meant to Madison where you'd always have a rally.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Yeah, so they it's fit. It's fifty thousand, that there's
six thousand hunters annually that take advantage of this, and
essentially they The refuge manager retired last year following rob
Following this guy's retirement, refuge staff were cut from five
(10:18):
employees to a single off site manager. And then last
month there was a notification that it was going to
consider uh severing the MoU with the army, which would
close the refuge altogether. So again, this is one of
those opportunities where if you don't speak up, no one
else is going to. And yeah, I mean there's not
(10:39):
a ton of like in the Midwest. Any any acre
of public land is immensely valuable. We kind of take
it for granted out here living in Montana, but Indiana
can't afford to lose fifty thousand acres of public land.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
So it's a choice.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Heard, did you mention the part about him here in Turkey?
Shot Goblin to a ten.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
No.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
No, no, I was trying to get to the I
was trying to get.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
To the called action, he says.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Ye, but I would never leave out the good parts
just for that.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
It was an oversight.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
A small interior portion of the refuge is closed the
hunting because the Indiana National Guard uses it as an
air to surface test range. I can personally attest to
Turkey's shock gobbling to a ten warthog guns. That would
be that would be very interesting. Yeah, make your voice.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Heard, all right, Lakers and Barrow trauma. We did that
little piece on the the many state record Lakers coming
out of Minnesota from one fishing guide like a week
or two back. Had someone right in an episode eighty seven,
you folks talked about the guy out of two harbors.
(11:53):
I follow this charter on Facebook and see all the
bunkers he I think he meant lunkers he pulls out
of the depths and it is extremely impressive. His question
is about survival rates of a fish of that size
being pulled out of thirty nine degree water from eighty
ninety one hundred plus feet deep. He understands the fish
(12:13):
is being pulled up through the water. Call him slower
than trolling, but he's still got concerns about like how
the fish would handle it. Do you have any thoughts
or answers to the concerns of fish fatality? If you
go on Facebook, you'll see a mix of wow, huge
and nice you killed it by throwing it back. I
did a little research for you, and it turns out
(12:35):
that lakers and all salmon it's like trout char whatever
in the trout salmon char family, they're all less susceptible
to barrow trauma. Gott to pull this stuff up. They're
they're called physostomas fish. This means they possess a specialized
pneumatic duck that connects their swim bladder to their digestic digestive,
(13:00):
which allows them to burp out excess expanding gas barrow trauma.
You'll see them. Their guts are all blown up, their
eyes are sticking out of their head. It's pretty gruesome.
So this means that lakers deal with it coming up,
and it also means they if they do get get it,
they deal with it better going back down. But if
(13:23):
the fish is reeled up too rapidly they can get it.
They can't expel that gas fast enough to keep up
with the barrow trauma, and this can create severe pressure
on their organs and cause internal bleeding. Some studies show
twenty to mortality can occur when lake trout are brought
(13:43):
up very fast from extremely deep water. But like, we
hope those kings in two hundred feet of water when
we're halibit fishing and they.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Come up fine, you know, they like run to the
surface they themselves.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah. Yeah, before you even know you got him on
and he's already jumping out in front of the boat.
He look a salmon.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
You have a bunch of slack lines.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You're you're like a night break off.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
What happened, Physicistomas, They got they got a little duct
and there's swim bladder. It helps with that.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay, here here, here's some news. I found this and
I did additional digging on this, but I was made
aware of this in Wall Street Journal. But I but
this story is a story that pops up down there
because it has to do with some with some particulars
about the state of Wisconsin's water access rules. This story
(14:35):
involves a dude, a dog walker that lives in a
suburb of Milwaukee, and his name is Paul Floorsheim. Okay,
there's an old man's shoe company, floor shym Shoes, And
I was like, why was I reading about floor shym
shoes recently? Well, it turns out also reported in the
(14:57):
Wall Street Journal. This is a little wrinkle. This is
like a news wormhole. A couple of months ago, reporting
the Wall Street Journal is that Trump has taken a
shine oh yeah, to floor Shine Shoes, taking a shine
to him. That's like a pun. He's taking a shine
(15:19):
to floor Shine Shoes. Did you know this, Yes, to
the point where he likes to do a thing where
people will come and he likes to look and try
to guess their.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Shoe size and then give them shoes.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
So that he can give them floor shin shoes. Here's
where the wrinkle gets even deeper. You think of him
normally as somewhat vindictive, right, Like, he keeps in mind
who's slighted him, and he wants to come back around
and get him. Floor Shine Shoes is suing to get
(15:54):
back their twenty million dollars in illegal import duties that
they were. Oh, the Supreme Court struck down the illegal
duties and you could get your money back. Floorsheim wanted
their twenty two million dollars back. They're also very shoes.
This has nothing to do with the story. This is
(16:15):
just an added little wrinkle. It says that he gets
a kick out of guests in people's shoes in a court.
And there's a rumor that he said, I think in
a conversation with Vance and Rubio, he said, I can
tell a lot about a man by the size of
his shoes. Play at Phil Star of cowboy boots coming up?
Speaker 5 (16:39):
What science size twelve double?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
What big seat? Well you know what they say, No,
what big feet, big boots? There you go. I knew
I heard that somewhere. There's from Peewey's playoffs. So back
to the story. Here's what's going on in Wisconsin. You
got this Floorshim gentleman. He's Paul Floorsheim, grandson of the
(17:04):
founder of Floorshim Shoes. This has nothing to do with anything,
nothing to do with anything. He lives a lot near
the lake and for fifty years, this gentleman has walked
his dogs up and down the beach of Lake Michigan.
This is not like a local little pond of Lake Michigan.
He has walked up and down the beach. Well, and
(17:27):
I'm sorry to report to you, Dennis out there, but
this involves a dentist. A dentist really gets to wear
This is driving him nuts because he owns a property
on Lake Michigan. Again, this is Lake Michigan.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, this can't be the only guy walking around on him.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
But this guy, this dentist, gets a real case of
the ass about this. His name's Daniel Domagala. Fifty feet
from the water's edge. He has a tiki hut, like
a Jimmy Buffett looking tiki hut.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It puts off major Jimmy Buffett vibes, except for the
giant keep outside. It's like he's he like he's got
like like you can picture. Buffet is never going to
write a song about keeping people off the beach off
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it would be so
Unbuffet like. But this guy's got a little Jimmy Buffett
(18:24):
tiki hut. And in there he's got alarms that when
people come on the beach he blasts them with alarms
to drive them away.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
In one summer last summer, the dentist Do mcgawa called,
by his own admission, and one summer he called the
cops fifty times to complain about people walking down the
Lake Michigan shoreline. Now, in Michigan and in most places,
(18:59):
when you imagine in the shoreline of a lake it's
a legal definition. It's like it's the shoreline is from
the average low water line to the average high water line.
And you'll even see in legal definitions, even from the
Supreme Court, even pointing out there's like a debris line
where seaweed collects, a line where you can visually see
(19:23):
the impact of waves.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Like if you're walking in wet sand, you're good.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yes, because you're seeing the impact of waves. It's just
defined to define. But in Wisconsin years ago, back in
nineteen twenty three, a guy that was water and cattle
in Lake Winnebago got in a dispute with a guy
that was walking down the lake and somehow, out of
this cattle argument came this idea that Wisconsin doesn't accept
(19:50):
average high water average low water and Wisconsin, you gotta
be in the water because they pegged it to navigation
and you're not doing navigation out of the water. And
usually it's okay. But because this dentist having a conniption
all the time, the cops finally came out and they're like,
(20:12):
I gotta give you a ticket. This guy won't stop
calling on you. He takes it to village court. Okay,
he goes to village court and the judge says, my
hands are bound because of this. I'm trying to think
because of Domal v. Jance.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
He's stilling the floorshine guy. His hands are tired, the judge.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
The judge says, I gotta make you guilty.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I have to make you guilty because I'm bound by
Domal v. Chance, which is a nineteen twenty three Supreme
Court of Wisconsin finding about this dispute between a guy
watering cattle in Lake Winnebago and a guy on the shoreline,
an access dispute. But the judge holds out. I don't know.
(21:01):
Maybe it's time that gets overturned because we're out of
step with other states.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So Floorsheim is appealing this.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I saw a quote from this said he ain't like.
He ain't taking this quietly.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
No, he u'nbagging down. I'm bagging down. What's funny is
they sent a photographer out to take a photograph of him,
and for the photograph he's standing out and angle deep water.
But he's standing out in front. I noted that he's
standing out in front of the Jimmy Buffett tiki and
ankle deep water for the articles. So then that guy's
(21:37):
probably in there just praying. Then he walks up on
the sand, you know. Uh, so that that's going on,
and this is like, this has major implications because think
about the length of shoreline. We're talking about Wisconsin's Lake
Michigan shoreline, and what's happening here is people are building
(21:59):
seas and other obstructions to make it that like, to
force it that you'd have to go around up on
the beach. But then saying, hey, you can't go up
on the beach. I just can't believe.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
This.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
The dentist is saying, he's equating it to a home invasion.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
He's like, if someone comes in your house, what are
you gonna do? Because this old timer is walking along
the beach and got out of the water. So there's
two things. There's the legal of it all, and I
love it that he's I love it that he's appealing this.
There's the legal of it all, and there's also just
the like when you wake up in the morning, man, like,
(22:41):
what kind of dude do you want to be that day?
Do you want to call the cops fifty times? Because
there's an old man walking not with his toes in
the water down the beach.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I mean, if that guy was like walking down the
beach and his dog was taking a crap right by
the Tiki.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Day and you know his dogs are leashed.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I'm just saying like, if he had a good he
doesn't have a good reason.
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So when when Florsheim argued his case, he argued on
the public trust doctrine, m okay, he said, because of
public trust doctrine and these other court cases like that
established that that like duck hunters could duck hunt out
in front of private property, all this historical stuff. But
(23:27):
again it was thrown out because this had gone to
Wisconsin State Supreme Court. So maybe he'll get it overturned.
There's also old legal stuff from the admission of the
state of the admission of Wisconsin into the state, and
that has said anything that flows into the Mississippi or
(23:47):
the Saint Lawrence it should be open to navigation, but
points out because you had to do portaging. It has
language that basically says and the walk king routes because
of course you had the portage.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
So it's a really.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Confused legal picture. I wish the guy look that's the
end of my news story.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
It does look like a nice tiki hut. Yeah, really nice.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's a great place to sit for yourself.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
And margarite and a yell at old man, he's not
representative of the island mindset.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And yello at old man walking along.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
All right, we're going back to the Colorado Wolf Desk.
We haven't been there in a while. This just came
out recently that the actually incident happened in March. But
a ranch ham working at the Nottingham Ranch in western
Colorado shot and killed a female gray wolf from the
King Mountain pack. That happened on March tenth, and it
(24:52):
turns out she was like the matriarch of a pack.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
They had.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
They had pupps last year. The mate had died during
a collaring operation just a couple of months before the female.
The female died, so these pups are now like without
their their parents, their leaders. So you know, people are
on top of it.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
The ranch hand and the ranch manager came forward and
and like they weren't trying to cover this up, but
the details that where it gets kind of weird, as
the way they described is the wolf was like threatening
cows they run eleven cattle on this ranch. It's like
(25:38):
it's a cow calf operation. And according to the ranch owner,
Susie Nottingham, the employee fired two warning shots before killing
the wolf as it moved towards cows with the young calves.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
So during the I saw this, it didn't actually take
a bite.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
No, no, no, it was it was quote threatening the wolves.
And this is why it's like a big deal because
there's legality question involved, like like what does a wolf
have to be doing before it's legal to kill it?
Because under Colorado's.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, I don't think he was going up to say hi, no,
but no do that.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
But there's this experimental population rule right, which says ranchers
may legally kill wolves if they're caught actively attacking livestock,
working dogs, threatening human safety, et cetera. Conservation groups are
obviously arguing the thing was not actively attacking, right, and
it should involve criminal penalties under the Endangered Species Act.
(26:39):
So it's a real like test case for for like,
what a wolf has to be doing before a rancher
can legally, you know, legally kill it. Was it in
the Act, What constitutes an imminent threat? What evidence is involved?
In this situation, did the ranch comply with reporting rules,
which it seems like they probably.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Is there any mention of yardage?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
No, I didn't find any specific distance.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That'll probably be certainly be part of the investigation because
it approaching it at fifty yards, yeah, or it approaching
it at ten feet or really different things.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Oh, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But you also have to think if it's a calf,
it was calving season. Yeah, so if it's a calf,
it's not going to be a really long time between
it getting no getting a hold of it and you
having a.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Problem, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And yeah, they're very vulnerable that time of year, both
both the mothers and the cows. And you know, I
personally think you got to give rancher some leeway in
this situation. It's not as if it doesn't sound like
(27:54):
they were like out hunting wolves.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Right to the other part of it. They came clean
right off.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
The bat, yeah, exactly, which if.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
You like, yeah, you know, there's a slight parallel to
this would be that in a situation where being threatened
by a grizzly bear you might kill it self defense,
it's gonna get investigated, yep. And they're gonna come out
and do like a regular forensic analysis, like where was
the bear, where are the tracks, where's the shell casings?
And sometimes you'll read yep, where they're like, yeah, he
(28:25):
was in imminent danger. And sometimes you read where they
feel like they got a little jumpy. Yeah, and maybe
and maybe this would lead to some level of distance,
some kind of physical distance at which you could take action.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, some kind of guideline on where you can get
away with it. Interestingly, just about less than a week ago,
a few days ago, Colorado and Parks they killed a
wolf lethally removed a wolf after repeated livestock depredations. That
particular wolf was involved with it in the desk of
(28:57):
at least twenty four sheep. So like, yes, this other
wolf hadn't killed anything yet, but but like, it's not
as if CPW isn't going in and killing wolves that
are that are killing livestock. In fact, the state has
a released twenty five wolves in the last couple of years.
(29:17):
Fourteen of those have died, not all of them and
incidents like this, but several have been killed because of
livestock depredation.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So where does that do you know, where does that
population sit right now thirty two and how many were
moved into the state.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Twenty five, So fourteen of those originals twenty five are dead,
so eleven of the originals are alive. That would lead
to twenty one that were born in the States in
the last couple of years.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
So they're taking hold.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Yep, we'll see what happens. Like I don't know what
will happen to that pack that no longer has like
a matriarch or a patriarch.
Speaker 6 (29:55):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You know what for a while is real big on
that word an apophesis offices is bringing something up by
saying you're not going to bring it up, right? What
you do when you're like fighting with your wife, you
know the example I use is you go like your
wife would usually say to you, maybe should be like,
I'm not even gonna talk about what happened on Friday.
That's an aypothesis. Yeah, Brody and I decided not to
(30:19):
cover a story about some some guys in Colorado. We're
not covering this some guys in Colorado who are saying
since the twenty since the twenty sixteen election was.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Rigged, No, twenty twenty was rigged.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well no, because that because that wasn't rigged.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Twenty twenty was the one Biden one.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
What am I saying? Yeah, sorry, you're right, sorry twenty twenty. Yeah,
since the twenty twenty election was rigged, it must have
been that the Wolf vote was rigged.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Too, Yes, and they want to over therefore.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
It didn't actually pass because we all know it was rigged. Yes,
and they probably rigged that too, but we weren't gonna
cover that story because I just need to read about
it more.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
But just so, but.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
That's that's a thing.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
But yeah, we'll keep an eye on this to see
if they end up charging this guy or not. I'm
gonna predict they don't.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I'm gonna predict they don't if they did something totally fishy.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Like went and shot some puppies in a den or
something that.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They would have not They wouldn't have said, hey, send
someone over. This just happened, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But that's right.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And the other thing is I forgot this little detail.
I think you might have mentioned it. It wasn't even
that it was the ranch owner that reported.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yes, So she's like the Nottingham's. This is like a
little editorializing. But having spent a lot of time in
that air. Like the Nottinghams are like an old school,
like well to do Eagle County family.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think they. I don't think they
feel like they got anything to hide and they're just
laying it out.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Yep, yep, my old stopping grounds right there. Man, who's next?
Speaker 6 (32:07):
You I am.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I'm going to.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
Get back to you.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I gotta figure this out. What am I doing?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Horseshit news stories?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Man, Bill, can you pull up that picture?
Speaker 6 (32:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
This is the weirdest this, This one is the weirdest
thing was.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I don't spend a ton of time on Instagram, but
I don't know what A couple of weeks ago I
sent this to you, Steve. I was scrolling through and
this came up. This is the name of this page
is Outstanding. It's out with two t's standing it called
the description is curating business, technology and breaking news in
(32:44):
one place. Three hundred and forty two thousand followers, including
some people I know that you can see who follows
different pages, and so they said this. Conservationists confirmed while
jaguars breeding uh in the United States for the first
time in decades. Trail camera YadA YadA. If you go
on to read what the post has to say, it'll
(33:06):
say that trail cameras in June twenty twenty six caught
pictures of a female jaguar with cubs in the Arizona Wilderness,
like the Sky Island areas that we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Before, like by twelve two hundred people, shared by three
four hundred and eighteen people.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Even goes on to say that there's strongly suggests that
a breeding population is establishing itself north of the border,
and that the female and cubs were found in areas
monitored by the University of Arizona Wildcat Research and Conservation Center.
So I'm looking at this and I'm like, Wow, that's amazing, right,
(33:47):
But then I'm like, huh.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It would be reported everywhere?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yes, Like I immediately went to Google and like typed
in some stuff that would lead to any news articles
surrounding this event. Couldn't find any, but like Google AI
kind of went on to confirm what this instagram from from.
Just so the lesson is, Like, the lesson is like,
(34:14):
if you're getting news from not and all, you probably
know this, But if you're getting news from social media
or AI, like man, you just gotta be careful if you're.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Wondering how long to boil like a hard boiled egg. Yeah,
the AI over you can save you a lot of time.
It comes to anything slightly complicated.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
And and I can't tell if this, this outstanding page
is even written by humans. It may be completely AI generally, but.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
The point this is not true.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah, this is and and like this, this this page
appears like a legit news page. It has some legitimate
news stories on the page. But anyway, I got suspicious
emailed our our resident wild life biology expert, Jim Hefflefinger
from Arizona, from Arizona, and immediately he's like, this seems
(35:06):
like it's probably horseshit.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Horseshoot, yes, one.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Hundred dollars to.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
Some other kids.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
He I feel like that's not that doesn't go horsesh
it shouldn't be concluded in there.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
Yeah, anyway, Phil, I would like to point out that this,
this writer says, I know, Phil does a good job
at bleeping them out, but it's not enough.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah. Sorry, sorry, I forgot to tell you that.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
This kid said. This kid said, sorry, Brody interrupted news.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
We'll get back.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
He thinks Randall should host more roast episodes.
Speaker 6 (35:48):
Huh, don't tell you honest, don't.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Tell you honest. Back to half a finger, he did
some digging and he right off the bat he smelled
a rat. He did some dig in with some of
his colleagues and basically, yes, it's a hoax and less
some legitimate detail surface and.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
I mentioned, you know this is I looked, it's not real.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Oh, I know, it's not I mentioned this could create
headaches for wildlife managers. And yet, like one of his colleagues,
seems to constantly be dealing with stuff like this, like
the one there was a post that came out about uh,
Mexican wolf releases going on that that had never it
(36:33):
never happened.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
So that he said, there's a photo. So there was
an article about them releasing Mexican wolves in northern Arizona
with a photo. Well it turns out the photo was
from Mexico.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
So yeah, even wildlife management is getting hit by this
stuff now.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Oh yeah, And Heffelfinger said this too, that fake article,
the fake article about wolves, which is like, what a
weird thing to fake even had fake maps with fake
GPS tracks on it. What are you gaining from that?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I don't get it. But the problem. The problem is
it's like not to like pat our own back here,
like we're able to recognize this stuff. A lot of
people that saw that would just be like assume that
it's true. There's like no reason for them to think
that it's not true.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Right, That's why you got to come to the news
show for your news.
Speaker 6 (37:25):
Yeah, formerly trained news.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Because we check off, we dig into everything and check
it out. Man, most try to dupe us, so we
get on the phone and call people.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Suckers over the fishing desk.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
A new record was set at the sixty eighth Annual
Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament, which I talked about this
with the whole Omnisoonar thing a few weeks back, with
a blue marlin that was nine hundred and nineteen point
nine pounds, big old thing. The previous record was nine
hundred and fourteen pounds.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That's like a bunch of me laying there. They say,
how long that like me and me and me and me.
I don't know how many times A bunch of times
laying there.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
Yeah, slightly big pile of these. Unfortunately it's slightly less
than four of me.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
They mentioned when they I saw a news article when
they brought it in. They mentioned that the head of
the fish was in the in the saloon of the boat.
It was so long didn't fit on the whole back deck.
The boat, Marlon Fever, which is a sixty three foot
jet bay from Wilson County, North Carolina, was the boat
that brought in the giant fish. Boat's captain by Captain
(38:40):
Cameron gut three and the angler who caught the fish
was eighteen year old Connor Daniel. Young kid, Yeah, young kid.
Which you saw that the fish was twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, that fish was two when that dude was born.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah, I bet that fish.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Felt a disturbance in the force in his second year.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, oh yeah. I don't like catching fish older than me.
I'm out to it. I'll eat them, but I don't
like it.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
So this fish was the heaviest fish ever weighed in
the tournament's history, and the payout for this fish. It
won two categories and the total payout was uh six million,
five hundred and thirteen seven dollars fifty cents.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
That is that has got to be taxed in a
very burdensome way. Like I just feel like when you
go to the irs and you're like, hey, I won
six million bucks in a fishing contest. That it's not
like it's that they have a special way they're going
to handle that, you.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Know, uh slide, let's get these guys desk.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
Our friend Brandon Pollinick was telling me one time that
their their tournament, like their tournaments are in different states,
you know, so they get they taxed for their winnings
in every state all the day, weigh all different ways.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
There's probably good states to win in bad states to
win in six million, five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
And it's the largest single boat winning in the tournament
sixty eight years.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And that's the biggest tournament.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
Yeah wow, there's only ever been six blue marlin in
the history of this tournament, weighing over seven hundred pounds
brought to the scales.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Can you imagine duking it out with that fish once
you started realizing what you had so two hours and
then when you're like, hey man, you know, be careful
with the gaff because that's you know, six million dollars.
Your kid's like, I'm got.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
A gaff it.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
So this fish was caught on day two of the tournament.
It's a six day tournament, but you're you can fish
for the six days, so you can choose like what
days depending on whether and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
As the people who are like forget it, I keep.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Aude, Yeah, but I mean you could.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
You can still potentially win more, you know, second, second
or third place, which is you know, still a bunch
of money. Yep.
Speaker 8 (41:17):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
So this fish won the overall heaviest blue marlin category
and also it won the Fabulous Fisherman Prize, which is
the first blue marlin brought to the scales during the
tournament that weighed over five hundred pounds and that comes
with the prize of eight hundred and seventy one thousand.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Dollars in addition or no, that's just.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Part of part of the perst.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Yeah, but yeah, if you bring in the first blue
marlin weighing over five hundred pounds, that's how much money
you win.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
So this boat, fender Bender catches a six forty four, yep,
and that's not good enough.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
That's the second place.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Second place fish was caught by fender Bender sixty four,
and the third place fish was Haphazard, brought in by
Haphazard weighing six thirty five great boat names. The total
payout split between forty seven money winners was nine million
dollars thirty eight and twenty five. There was a total
(42:17):
of two hundred and seventy boats that fished the tournament.
And just to compare this fish to the current world record,
not even close blue marlin, Yeah, not even close. She
caught nineteen ninety two off the coast of Brazil, weighed
for just over fourteen hundred pounds.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Amazing and this slifting that there's still fish that big
out in the ocean.
Speaker 6 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Uh. Seth had another thing that he didn't think was
worth putting in his story. Would you like to show wow?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I was, I was gonna mention it.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
But the I read that the this fish had I
read two sailfish in his stomach.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Kind yes and no, it had a sailfish in its stomach,
and it had a different sailfish's bill lodged under its
gill covered man and he's still out eating.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
I wonder if they if that's just like him trying
to eat like the one in the gills, if he's
trying to eat it, or if they are like duking
it like.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
My theory, And I don't know, I just read it.
I thought that he get in a fight with a
sailfish or was he trying to eat and it got
jammed over. I think it was like if you're eating
northern pike and you wind up with a bone stuck
in your throat. That's my theory something like that's the
equivalent of you're having a pike bone in your throat.
Is him having a billfish bill and his gill? Yeah,
(43:43):
but I don't know. You have to ask him.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
It's gotta be a tough fish to eat.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
For fourteen hundred pounds for the world record, world record
blue marlin.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Size of a lask of bull moose.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
And I can't believe also that you can kick one
of those off years.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Now me and Seth want to get invited to that tournament,
but I only want to go if we can catch
a couple of wahu and some tuna just for eating.
Speaker 6 (44:11):
There.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
There are some categories for for tuna and like dolphin
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
If you guys go out and cess walleye boat.
Speaker 6 (44:19):
I think if you just troll.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
My heat, there is an outboard division if you pick.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Up If you pick up a nine hundred pounder on
day two, you should be fine to just go out
and fill the fish for the freezer.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
So if you need a couple of guys to sit
around who don't know the first thing about marlin fishing, uh,
we're both interested.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, I would love to go and just check it out.
Just watch ye.
Speaker 6 (44:41):
Off to New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Off to New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (44:46):
So there's a story.
Speaker 5 (44:47):
There's a couple of interrelated stories here that I'm gonna
thread together. And the first one is there's a recent
article or I guess a recent news story about a
high profile case of tag for but it speaks to
a larger discussion about opportunity allocation in New Mexico. So,
(45:08):
three guys associated with Big Horn Outfitters were obtaining ELK
tags through the resident draw system and then transferring them
to non residents in exchange for payment. And so what
they did is they created fake hunter profiles, fake names,
fake fake accounts. They drew tags and then requested medical
(45:28):
transfers to their clients. And so in the state of
New Mexico, you can get a doctor's note and then
instead of that tag going back into the draw for
the next Joe public hunter, you can designate who receives
your tag when you turn it in. So they're creating
all these fake accounts drawing tag.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Those dudes are all getting sick.
Speaker 5 (45:50):
They're all getting sick. Yeah, and they're forging the doctor's notes.
And so these guys were charged with wire fraud and
LASIAC violations. Even still, it's really bizarre that they were
able to draw this many tags, Like they drew thirteen
resident ELK tags with twenty nine fake profiles and there
(46:12):
so there's some speculation that they had even more fake
accounts that were that were.
Speaker 6 (46:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
I mean, this is all correct me if I'm wrong,
And this is all linked to the fact that, like
ELK tags are notoriously difficult to draw for non residents
in New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
ELK tags correct, well, I can attest, yes.
Speaker 5 (46:32):
So what's interesting here, Mark, And the other thing is this,
this could not happen as far as I know, most
Western states. You couldn't pull this off, right, because you
can't just transfer tags like that. And what was interesting
to me about this is the US attorney who announced
the indictment. His quote says, as a hunter, I know
(46:55):
it's extraordinarily difficult for New Mexico residents to draw ELK tags.
In fact, many New Mexicans who apply annually wait years,
sometimes decades to draw coveted tag and when the opportunity
to fill their freezer with elk, and so.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
That's premium unit.
Speaker 5 (47:11):
Yeah, but still it is relatively speaking, it is hard
for New Mexicans to draw elk tags. And allocation of
tags in New Mexico would probably shock most people who
are familiar with how this works in other states. Every
Western state has landowner and outfitter tags and it's weighed
(47:36):
against public opportunity. But in New Mexico it's something like
sixty to seventy percent of tags go to the general
public and about thirty percent are private, whereas in most
states they reserve more than ninety percent for your just
any person applying to hunt. So it's ten times the norm.
(48:00):
It depends by species. In terms of antelope tags, New Mexico,
almost sixty five percent of them are just privately distributed.
Sixteen percent of all big horn sheep tags are privately distributed.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
And a lot of those tags you can then go
online and like it's like a bidding war for these tags.
Speaker 5 (48:22):
So the private tags, what we're calling private tags here
divided between a mandated outfitter set aside, and then the
private landowner tag system. The private landowner tag system accounts
for the majority of those. I think it's like eight
to one something like that of these private tags, and
they can sell or trade them on the open market,
(48:43):
ostensibly the reason being to help offset the financial costs
of managing wildlife. The other thing that's sort of unique
to New Mexico is in most states where there are
landowner tags, their requirements for allowing public access to private lands.
New Mexico does not do this. It's just cutting off
a big old chunk of the public resource and sliding
(49:06):
it across.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Because you gotta. But I want to jump in here
and explain a part of that. Sure you will see
like in some states, I believe Colorado's this way, you
might see a open unit or closed unit landowner tag.
If you let's say you have a rancher and they
(49:27):
own a ranch.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Can I explain open and closed unit?
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:31):
I think this is what you're getting at some tags.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
What I'm fixing to explain, Okay, go ahead. I'm trying
to paint a scenario. Let's say you're in a Let's
say you have an area there, you have an area
where you have a private ranch in a county and
there's also a ton of national forests in the county
and the rancher. The rancher's got twenty thousand acres and
(49:54):
he gets two elk tags every year that he can
sell as a way to offset his inconvenience for hosting wildlife.
But you'd think so when he has his landowner tag,
it must mean that whoever buys that tag from him
hunts his ranch. It's not that way. If it's an
(50:15):
open unit tag, he can sell you the tag and
you don't even touch his property. You can go hunt
the national forest. So you got guys buying landowner tags
hunting public land. But there are what state has a
closed unit one?
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Colorada has both, so they all have tags where you
can only hunt the landowner's land and then you can
hunt the other what you were talking about, where you
can go anywhere in the unit and hunt.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (50:44):
Yeah, so this I mean again, this happens in every state.
And there's it's like a spectrum of how favored one.
Speaker 6 (50:55):
Side of the pie is versus the other.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
I've bought I've bought of these in my life. In
New Mexico, I bought a landowner prong horn. I bought
a landowner elk tag in my lifetime. Full disclosure here.
Speaker 5 (51:07):
Yeah, and you can't get mad at the player, exactly right.
It's the system, Like landowners and outfitters are defending the
status quo. Tag buyers are participating in the system as
the system's designed.
Speaker 6 (51:21):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (51:21):
The issue is lawmakers who are who are stacking the
deck in this way, right, policymakers who are stacking the
deck in this way. There's two stories that relate to
this that could set the stain, set the stage for
a change in how this works. And and again it's
like it's not happening anytime soon, or it's not happening immediately.
(51:46):
But there's one lawsuit that was just settled. Some landowners
in the western part of the state in Catching County,
claimed there are too many elk and it resulted in
an unconstitutional taking of their property. They wanted additional compensation
from the state because the elk were eating their grass.
(52:06):
They're saying that there's so many elk they have to
reduce the size of their herds. Some of them are
saying they have to sell their ranches because the elk
are eating too much, and their claim is that the
state intentionally introduced a non native elk herd, managed its
population to grow dramatically, and knowingly relied on private lands
to sustain the herd. This went to district court, which
(52:27):
ruled that the unconstitutional taking of property claims were invalid,
but it left open the question of whether or not
the elk could be considered a nuisance that the state
has imposed. And then the state Court of Appeals upheld
the rejection of the unconstitutional taking of property question and
went further throughout the idea that elk can be a nuisance,
(52:50):
or that more technically, that the state could be responsible
for any nuisances caused by elk.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
So backfired on that, dude.
Speaker 5 (52:58):
Yeah, and the state so the quotes from the quotes
from the decision are like, reaffirmed that the people own
the elk, the state manages them, and it sort of
says the elk exists, the elk have a right to
be there, they say, because the state is viewed as
the trustee for and not an owner of wildlife. Governments
(53:19):
that regulate the well being of wildlife do not have
a reliability for the actions of that wildlife. And it
also goes on to say the regulations that these guys
are complaining about, says none of the regulations require authorized
elk on private properties, nor do they prevent property owners
from building fences to keep them out. So in some ways,
the court is pushing back against sort of entitlement by
(53:45):
landowners to compensation for the wildlife, and it kind of
draws redraws a bit the boundaries of that relationship, right,
because a lot of these privatization of tags their product
of the acknowledgment that landowners do sustain wildlife and and
(54:05):
that's legitimate, but the state is kind of drawing a line,
or the court is sort of drawing a line in
the sand there.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
I would be curious to hear if this individual, like
how many elk tags are available in this area, right,
And if this individual is allowing hunters to access his
property to hunt and there and thereby disperse the elkerds, right,
(54:36):
Or if it's well, I don't want anyone on my land,
but I don't want the elk here either.
Speaker 5 (54:42):
Well, yeah, that's that's where a lot of That's where
a lot of these conversations end up. It's like there
are tools available in the toolbox it's just if some
landowners don't want to utilize public hunting pressure.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
It sounds like this guy just wants some payment, yeah,
for the fact that he's being inconvenient additional payment.
Speaker 6 (55:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (55:01):
And So the other story that ties to this, and
this is more directly related to the question of tag allocation,
is that on April twenty ninth, lawmakers in New Mexico
wrote to the Attorney General about two questions they had.
Speaker 6 (55:18):
About the current tag allocation.
Speaker 5 (55:20):
System, noting that it seems to be in quote significant
tension with the anti donation clause in the state Constitution
and the New Mexico's Constitution. There's an anti donation clause
that prohibits the state and other governing bodies from making
donations of public funds or property two or an aid
of any private person, association, or corporation. So the two
(55:44):
questions that the lawmakers specifically raised had to do with
mandatory outfitter licenses under a set percentage. And one of
the reasons that this is sort of politically I guess
like one of the reasons that a a New Mexico
lawmaker might question that to make political hey, is that
ninety percent of those outfitter tags are going to non residents.
(56:08):
Got it, it's out of state money buying these tags
instead of these tags going to the people of New
Mexico who own the wildlife.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah, it's it's like they're making donations exactly.
Speaker 4 (56:18):
Go.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
This is the kind of law dog And like I
always thought I wanted to be a lawyer on sweepstakes
and raffle law. But this kind of law dog and
is real interesting wildlife and justice.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
And I mean kind of looking out for the residents
of New Mexico goes along with what's happening in some
other states already, right, Like you're seeing states that are
taking extra steps to make sure that residents get more
of the available tag.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Right that is it? Very compelling legal argument.
Speaker 5 (56:46):
Yeah, and so they they say, their quote in the
letter is we know of no other state. This is
in reference to outfitter licenses. We know of no other
state that confers such a benefit, ultimately creating a system
where those with the greatest wealth from a loss the
country have a better chance of hunting New Mexico's public
lands than average New Mexicans.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
They're taking the populace.
Speaker 5 (57:08):
Yeah, and specifically, something to note here they're they're talking
about outfitter tags, not landowner tags, which if you're talking
about creating more opportunity for New Mexicans to hunt big
game animals, you'd take aim at those landowner tags because
there are way more landowner tags and outfitter tags.
Speaker 6 (57:28):
But here we have it.
Speaker 5 (57:29):
Here, we have a case of of lawmakers kind of
standing up for democratic allocational wildlife. So I don't want
to pooh pooh it. But on the other hand, there's
bigger fish to fry. If you want to see more
New Mexicans enjoying that opportunity, count files Phil.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
Out to put up a like a video of Dude
Stern a big ol'd pot soup with a canoe paddle man,
because these dudes are stirring the pot.
Speaker 4 (57:52):
How about how about a stun.
Speaker 5 (57:57):
A screeching eagle, a screeching with an American if.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
You have like a hat and said law dog and
this big old pot with like elk antlers sticking out
of it with a canoe paddle.
Speaker 3 (58:08):
I did see something that if they reduce the number
of those guaranteed outfitter tags, the non residence would still
end up booking the outfitters anyway.
Speaker 5 (58:21):
Right, the The other thing that the lawmakers are questioning
is the fact that in New Mexico, for big horn
sheep licenses, which are you know, that's the biggest dollars
there are in terms of hunting opportunity. The way that
they do it is they combine the hunting units to
determine how many big horn tags go to the private
(58:44):
pool versus the public pool. Every other species, they're issuing
these licenses and dividing them up on a per unit basis,
but they're combining all the units for big horns, and
as a result, the number of licenses counted for determining
how many outfitters is artificial increased.
Speaker 1 (59:02):
Can I I don't understand, But can I explain please
part of this and then you can explain part of
it too. I just want I want listeners to get
a grip on what we're saying. Sure, Montana is ten
percent cap right, so Montana caps like take big horn sheep.
No more than ten percent of the big horn sheep
(59:22):
tag allocation in Montana can go to non residents. But
you have units that only give out one big horn
sheep tag. So you would say, well, how in the
world could a non resident ever get the tag if
there's only one in that unit. So what they do
is they do it region by region. You count up
(59:46):
how many big horn sheep tags are available in all
of Region three, which is combined by many units. So
say in all of Region three there are twenty big
horn sheep tags. Therefore two can go to non residents,
and it could wind up being that a non resident
holds the only big horn sheep tag in a unit.
(01:00:06):
With that said, I don't understand what you're saying, so.
Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
I think one of the problems is that they only
do this for big horns. They don't do it for
other animals. My understanding is that, like in you're if
they were too, if they were to chop up that
pie into smaller pieces to determine before determining who gets what,
(01:00:30):
it would sort of incrementally the percentages would drop.
Speaker 6 (01:00:34):
If that makes Does that make any.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Sense, I'd have to have a really good math person
who's used to explaining stuff the children. Yeah, I think,
come in and tell me about it.
Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
I think the idea is that, like, because they have
to round, they have to round up or round down.
As the pie grows, it rounds up further. I couldn't
actually explain it in any details, especially.
Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
I should that right off the bat.
Speaker 5 (01:00:59):
Yeah, but the lawmakers to get back to this letter.
The lawmakers say, taking each of these issues individually and together,
what are the constitutional implications in terms of the state's
obligation to manage New Mexico wildlife in trust for the
benefit of the people of the state. So the Attorney
General has not issued a response yes yet to this.
(01:01:23):
It should be happening any day now.
Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
So a lawmaker can go A lawmaker can go to
the Attorney general and say, can you justify this to me?
Speaker 5 (01:01:35):
Yeah, they're looking for an opinion.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yeah, and then he's got to come back and go, man,
it really doesn't make any sense exactly. I don't know
why that's legal or whatever.
Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think, like the big picture,
you might be the listener might be thinking, I don't
live in New Mexico. I'm never going to hunt New Mexico.
Why does this matter for me? And the folks that
I talked I should say I talked to people in
New Mexico.
Speaker 6 (01:02:04):
Jesse de Bell from New Mexico Wildlife Federation.
Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
They they point out that New Mexico could be a
cautionary tale for other states, because again, this is a
it's not something that's like by itself unique to New Mexico.
It's a it's a sliding scale, and in other states
they have similar programs, but it's slid way far in
(01:02:31):
one direction. In New Mexico and and last year's Montana
legislative session, they talked about transferable landowner tags.
Speaker 6 (01:02:38):
It's probably gonna come up again.
Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
Wyoming there was just a push for transferable landowner tags
and that kind of got killed, but it's going to
come back in another legislative session. So once you make
these tags transferable, it opens up Pandora's box for this
sort of the fraud case that I started with. But
(01:03:00):
all in all, like people own the wildlife, and it's
just like democracy, people own the wildlife, you should be
able to have a say in how it's how it's
done right. And New Mexico too, like stream acxis, it's
New Mexico's sort of on the front lines of privatization
of public resources. And they just had all these stream
(01:03:21):
access cases where guys are barbed wiring and concertina wiring
streams to prevent people from accessing them. There's guys digging
out river channels they're too deep to wade. And just
like the compliance with stream acxis, there's there are people
in New Mexico who are seeing how far they can
(01:03:41):
push it in terms of privatizing some of these resources.
So I think we should all be paying attention to that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I don't want to condemn any state that does landowner tags. Yeah,
and I'm sure there's places where it's where it's beneficial
to some sectors and some user groups, and I'm not
here to condemn it. I'll say this though, if I
(01:04:08):
lived in a state that did not have transferable landowner
tags and someone was proposing to make that a new thing,
I would stand in opposition to that. Yeah, I would
want to. I would want to maintain the status quo
of not doing that in a situation where we were
(01:04:30):
asking whether we should start doing it. Not to say
that places should walk back because they might have a
successful system, but I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want
to be in a state where that went into play.
Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
Yeah, and it's a push and pull right, There's you know,
whenever you talk about opportunity allocation, there's people that should say, oh,
we should get rid of points. We should make it
a random draw. We should, and then you get into
the questions of read but.
Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
I have a lot of points though, idea.
Speaker 8 (01:04:58):
Well, that's the thing, and every New mex there doesn't
due point. Everybody has the right to say what they
think should happen, you know, and they're the people that
stand to benefit from undemocratic allocation.
Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
They're definitely making their voices heard. So if you're someone
out there who's sort of a wildlife populus, you should
weigh into.
Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
You know, like nimby wouldn't be if you were saying,
not in my tag holder envelope.
Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
Nim nimph, nim nimbi.
Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Yeah, not my tagholder envelope. Yes, I would say. If
New Mexico also is like, hey, we're kicking in points,
I would be like, well, your sons of bitches better
go back in time and give me my twenty points
that I never got. I was like, just better be retroactive.
Speaker 5 (01:05:49):
Yeah, yeah, I I don't know. I'm you know, it's like,
as hunters, we should be having these conversations, and like
when you look at New Mexico on its face, for me,
it's kind of like, man, I feel for the people there.
Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Yeah, and it always you know, like you get like
you get a sort of like a state establishes a reputation,
you know, and now then you'll hear a story out
of the state and you just won't be surprised. Meaning
when Texas said, Hey, even though Texas historically had Elk,
we're going to all of a sudden now pretend that
Elk are non native. I no disrespect to Texas. I
(01:06:27):
loved I like going there. I love the place. I
was like, that feels so Texas. When I hear stuff
out of New Mexico, I'm like, that doesn't feel New Mexico.
Speaker 5 (01:06:37):
It's real close to Texas geographically, and I think there's
I think part of the reason why it's such a
hotbed for this stuff is there's that money and that influence,
oh shape.
Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Texas second homes.
Speaker 5 (01:06:52):
Yeah, at least with the stream access stuff. I know
that a lot of the a lot of the people
behind that, a lot of the people that are fighting
stream act SIS, it's it's people from Texas carpetbaggers.
Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
So for those that's what I think about watching Randall
threw his hands up in the air.
Speaker 6 (01:07:11):
You gotta get on YouTube for that.
Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
That's right. Do you want to see Randall throw his
hands in the air.
Speaker 5 (01:07:16):
You go check us out on YouTube and subscribe and
now Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
That's true. I heard, I heard app as well.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Thanks for joining everyone the only place to get the
straight news no bs. See you next week.
Host
Steven Rinella
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