Ep. 898: Marijuana Users Win In the Supreme Court, Sicilian Curses, North Carolina Elk Hunt

Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew discuss: marijuana users buying guns; Steve’s Sicilian swear words; logging after wind storms; the North Carolina elk hunt; the Colorado moose explosion; and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
This week on the news show Steve trespasses in Sicily,
Brody runs his first marathon and it looks like dope
smokers can now get a gun without lying about it.
A logging project that might not actually be about logging.
Oregon finds a way to do something that more states
need to figure out, which is finding additional sources for
wildlife funding and habitat new public lands in Ohio and Utah.

(00:29):
North Carolinians are going to get to go elk hunting.
Hunting rights are getting an unexpected boost in Massachusetts and more.
But first our news. I just got back from Sicily.
M That's why Cicily's on the mother. My great grandparents
are from Sicily. They're Sicilians. So there's a couple things

(00:50):
that went on as a kid is my main takeaways
from this trip. My dad had a curse like if
you hit your if you hit your thumb with a
hammer sort of situation. He would say, well, I remembered
to be I remember it to be votana be shaku.

(01:14):
I have gone to a lot of Italians over the
years and said does this mean anything to you if
I say votana be shaku, And their eyes like no,
I don't know what that is. Once I was in Sicily,
I didn't appreciate the difference between Sicilian and Italian. Huge
difference between Sicilian and Italian. We had a tour guy, like,

(01:35):
you know, doing like a little tour around an old
town and I'm chatting the tour lady up at the
end of the tour and I say, maybe can help
me with something. Does it mean anything to you if
I say votana be shaku and she says, do you
maybe mean botana rue shake? I'm like, that's it. And

(02:03):
her response was, Wow, that's a big one. I'm not
gonna tell you what that is. I'll write it down
for you and you can look it up later. Hmmm,
bad words, terrible. Then I was talking to a guy,
a youngster, thirty year old guy, long hair man bun.
I said to him, I'm telling him the story. He's Sicilian.

(02:24):
I tell him and he's like, wow, Yeah, that's a
big one. It's a big one. Commonly used it would
be what you're saying is that there's a lady of
the night with an equine clientele. I'll leave it at that. Wow.
But it's yeah, terrible. No, wonder if you said that

(02:48):
in Italian, and he would say that in a moment,
hit a stumb with a hammer, like instead of saying mother,
you say that horse. Yep. The other thing to happen.
This is the this is one of the this is another.
This isn't our sisley highlight. So we go to oh.
Another one is that we've been I've been saying my
name wrong my whole life. It's Renell. I've I've been

(03:12):
saying it right all along. We go to this little
dinky town. There's these we're on this volcanic island and
here and there is like these little valleys and sometimes
it'd be a placed where the volcanic crater like blew
a wall out, and when it blew a wall out
and create like a little spot, you can put a
town there and grow some grapes. Some of these places

(03:34):
just have one road going in and a road and
you know that's it. One road goes down in there.
So we have this. We have a driver and he
takes us down in this little town not far from Renella,
the town of Renella. But we go down in this
little village and we kind of want to walk, so
he's like, well, just walk and I'll pick you up
down in town. So so my wife and my kids

(03:56):
are winding all around and we eventually get where we
just never run in to the guy, like, there's not
a lot to do, and it's very it's rural, and
we wind up there's these rock walls and there's this road.
The road has signs. We come to where the road
has these signs, and I don't know Italian, but I
know enough to know that these signs say private road,
and I confirm it's private road, like in eight different

(04:19):
ways private road. We're sitting there talking and this one
old timer who's got like he's just got a pair
of shorts, no shirt, no shoes. He comes out of
the bushes and he's kind of wondering what we're doing.
And then I see him turn a ball valve to
like irrigate something and go back into the bushes. My
wife gets the driver on the phone. We clear up

(04:40):
where we're at. The driver comes down. We climb in
the driver's car. He drives into through the signs. I
say to my kids out loud, I say, I guess
it's okay to drive on a private road here. Because
I have a very familiar anxiety from growing up when
he got stuck driving on a private road. We start
driving down a private road and also out of the bushes,
here's this other old timer mad and I can't speak

(05:04):
any Italian, but I've been in this situation, so I
know exactly what's happening. The guy comes to the window
and it's basically he's basically MoMA mia, you know, he's
like doing all the Italian hand gestures and he's pointing,
and without knowing any words, I know exactly what's transpiring.

(05:25):
The driver is trying to take a like what's the
big deal? He's trying to do like a what's the
big deal? And the guy's trying to do like I
can tell he's like, this is the tenth time this week?
How many signs do I got to put up? But
I can't understand any of it, but I'm so familiar
with the situation. And the guy's doing a like super cash.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
The driver it's like trespassing is the universal language.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yes it was. It was the best, and I and like,
normally I'm high. I'm like i'd be anxious in that conversation,
but I'm just a dude paying for a ride, So
I'm like totally divorced from it. And it was the
first time I could ever be in a fight, a
trespassing fight. Had My heart rate never went up.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
There's no consequences for you.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
No, it was great just to be there and see it.
We pull away and they got us to speak much English.
We finally get out of there. We go back out
and turn around and go back out and he looks
over his shoulder. He goes, no problem. How do you
pronounce your name? Now? You know how Elliott Cow's feels?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:30):
No, no, everybody mispronouncing the name.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
Now those were your highlights? What would your kids say?

Speaker 1 (06:35):
The highlight was going We went and watched a We
went and took a boat out and watched the volcano.
We were up for a couple hours. It rupts all
the time. Stromboli, stromboli. You can swim, lay on your back,
watch it, shoot and live out. How is the food
hit and miss dude, I hate to say it. I

(06:57):
hate to say it, hit and miss, hit and miss.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
No, I mean not every Italian probably makes great Italian.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Hit and miss. Yeah, some real highlights. Marinated anchovies not
like salted salad. It like a marinated anchoby. That's good.
Some of the stuff is you know, hit miss, hit miss.
That's all. Brody ran a marathon.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
I did my first one this past weekend.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Give me your biggest takeaway.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
Hold on before though, before you get the takeaway already,
I want to know if my little U message of
inspiration at five o'clock in the morning to that, Well,
I don't feel like.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
I didn't feel like you were inspiring me. I felt
like you were trying to disagree with my strategy, so
I didn't I went into that. What was your question?

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Oh, well, like, what's your biggest takeaway? You ran? How
many miles?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Is that? Twenty six point two? But you always Here's
the thing is, you don't know this because you don't run.
You never run twenty six point two miles in a marathon.
It's always like twenty six point five or twenty six
point seven because you're not running in a straight line,
so your watch is lying to you the whole time.
So you're like, oh shit, I'm almost done.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
You're doing an extra half mile a zigzagging, Yeah, try
to go round people, Yeah, go to get a drink.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
But it was like it was cold and wet, but
it was very great, positive experience, Like I loved it.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Did you have a number in your head?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:22):
I did the number.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
I did well close close. I was a little slower
than than than the number. But the main thing was
is I was like using this as h kind of
a dress rehearsal for the one I'm going to do
in September?

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Was that one different?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Because like I was using this one to learn how
to do it, because like you're in like the longest
training run I did was twenty miles, so like you're
in no man's land for a while during the races
as far as you ever ran, yeah, you never run
the actual I mean most people don't run the actual
distance in training. But like I figured out fueling and
hydration and pacing it. Like so that was all perfect

(08:59):
and I didn't hit it. Many people hit what's called
the wall between eighteen and twenty. They get hurt, they
cramp up, they fuelings messed up, and they just they're dying. Right,
that didn't happen, So, like that was the coolest thing.
A couple big takeaways was I learned an awesome trick,

(09:19):
which is you know those silicone straws, reusable straws.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, take the.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, yeah, so the aid stations, there's people like handing
down Dixie cups of like gatorade and water and stuff,
and trying to drink one of those while you're running.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Sucks.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like it's like hard, you can want to choke on it,
you spill it. There's a trick where you bring you
cut one of those silicon straws in half and just
shove it in a pocket, but then you grab that cup,
throw the cup, put the strawway.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Oh really it was pleasant, man, that's your takeaway. Other
takeaways twenty six miles, that's what you got. That's what
you came straw user.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, other takeaway as middle aged lady runners are just
like machines, man. Really, they just freaking go.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Just better endurance. Something happened younger than.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
I think, Like it could be younger, they could be older.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Do you regard yourself as a middle aged guy runner still?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, I'm not an old.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Age yet yet ten years.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
So yeah, like they just they just go. Man Like,
I paced off of a lot of middle aged women
runners because they're just very steady. So yeah, I'm gonna
do another one. It was great. I loved it. It's
five five plus months of training, which was the like.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
The you like gave up fishing in order to train
and turkey on. I don't really understand that. Isn't there
a way to have both?

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I did a little but both. That's why I kind
of like made the focus on this one. But then
I wasn't gonna do the one in September, and now
I'm gonna do it so.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
You can hear like a big marathon guy, I don't
know to.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Do another one. We'll see. It's not as far as
the honest runs far.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Un did one more question? Did you ever hit I
know you didn't hit the wall, but did you ever
hit what they.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Call it the pain cave? Sometimes?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
No, Like I definitely was feeling it the last ten k,
but like in a good way. Yeah, the last couple
three miles, I was like that, it's good. Maybe that
means I didn't go hard enough.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Were listening to some tunes like Stroker RaSE. I listened
to tunes and.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
I forgot my headphone, so I had to use my kids,
and only one of them was working and that went
dead a couple hours into the race, so I just
row dogged as they say.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, I can picture save and strokeer race for like
the last stroke.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
In the morning, I texted Brody. I said, is it
today or yesterday? He's like, man, I'm about to go.
I was like, all right, you ready. He goes, yeah,
I'm just gonna run like a you know, smooth assistant steady.
I said, screw that. I said, empty the tank, man,
let's go, and I just did not reply and he did,
empty the tank. You went, ran another super race, Yeah,

(12:15):
ran another hondo. When the Big Horn Mountains of Wyoming,
which your calls around your neck, no, I didn't bring
my calls that you No, I did. Uh. When you finish,
you actually get a belt buckle, which I forgot to bring.
But they give you like this jacket which I'll probably
never wear again. It says big Horn Ultra run all

(12:36):
over and I got this hat.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Wear it again.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
So you know, when you get a hat a run
one hundred miles, you gotta you gotta sports sported around.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Is it different than the last time you ran on
hundred miles?

Speaker 4 (12:48):
Yes, easier course by a lot. Like in the Crazy Mountains,
you run on a lot of rocks shale, like just rocks,
like we call them babyhead rocks, and they're just all
all over the place, which when you're twenty miles in
and you're fresh, it's no big deal.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
A little severed baby heads all the way. Yeah, it's
a good metaphor because we all know what that's like.

Speaker 4 (13:07):
But at eighty miles, those things just are brutal because
you just can't you can't run on top of them,
and then it takes a lot of focus to run
between them, and it just gets really hard, really quickly.
This trail was like just smooth dirt pretty much the
entire way.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
If you get way into this, have you kicked around
doing the Tussic one hundred and doing a Tundra hundred?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
No?

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Is that a thing? You just made that up? Not
just made it up, but you could be that could
be your deal. The Tussic one hundred, where it's one
hundred miles of TONI he's done two one hundred mile races.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
I'm wondering when you think the threshold is where he'd
get really into it, Like, well, what's.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
The most times you've heard of anybody running one hundred miles?

Speaker 4 (13:51):
I ran with a guy wearing a kilt, which at
first you're like, come on, guy wearing a kilt. I'm
like oh, I'll chat this guy thing. Yeah, he says,
he's said it's chafing is much better in the kill.
I think he said he was up into the teens
now of hundreds done.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Why did he just wear a skirt? Yeah, you could
wear a skirt like a tennis skirt. Yeah, totally actually
need to be plaid and made a wool. Uh.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
He actually wears one made by that company? Is it
five to eleven tactical?

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Make it like an adventure killed? Yeah? Did you?

Speaker 4 (14:22):
But did you hear about how it came about? It
was like it was an April's fools Day thing and
so many people were like, oh, no, we want a
camouflage kill that like every couple of years now they
make or running these kilts anyways, that dude was running
his seventy six one hundredth mile er.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
What's that times one hundred? When we were seven six
hundred miles of races? Yeah, he'd do the Toustic one hundred, dude,
he probably could. Yeah, his goal is to get to
trademark one hundred.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Of them in a couple more years.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, the under one, the Tusic one hundred.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
I think getting into it is I'm approaching that because
I'm you. You finished one, and almost the next day you're like,
what I could have done better? Like that's all you
think about, Like, oh I had good parts and I executed,
But all you can dwell on is like, oh, I
had three to four hours of nausea, where like I
felt like I was just gonna puke the entire time

(15:16):
and like everything shuts down. I wasn't moving. Like what
if I had those three to four hours back, how
well would my time be?

Speaker 1 (15:23):
You know?

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Just what could have I done?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
So this all makes me jealous because it makes me
feel like a cupcake. Dude.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, honestly, it's not that hard. I mean, because you
can't remember. They call it ultra running, but it's more
like ultra power hiking with some running thrown in. I mean, sure,
there's the elites that might actually run the entire course.
The guy set a course record that won and I
think he went just under eighteen hours and it took
me thirty. So he did it almost twice. As I

(15:55):
didn't sleep any on this.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
One bit, not one bit. Wait, when you're training, though,
are you training one bit? Now? Are you training power
hiking or are you training running both?

Speaker 4 (16:06):
I mean I just can't run up like our local
hill here that we always run the m and then
up towards Bald Mountain. I mean, you can maybe make
it fifty yards running on those steep sections, but eventually
you're just you know, your power.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
That's my wife found that mouse. Yeah that's right, that's right,
she was running. She was blown right past it.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
So yeah, you're trying to always push what that like,
what your slowest pace is, right, that's what makes your
pace faster throughout the whole thing. And to do that,
you train by doing intervals or a little short runs
up you know, mountains, and so hopefully in a race,
your base level power hike ends up being faster than
it once was.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
So oh, congratulations voice, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
Thanks it it felt it felt good. Yeah, but I'm
ready to do another one for sure, I am. Uh
was it reason I was excited to do this run
in Wyoming Big Horn Mountains are in Wyoming is because
I also drew a ELK and ELK tag in Wyoming

(17:09):
covided ELK tag.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
We were like supposed to be like all buddies on
Wyoming tags and stuff, and you went like totally rogue,
and I do know you went rogue.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
Well, I realized that, especially on a hunt like this,
it's better that, like, if you want, you can come
and join me and help me out, and then when
you draw the tack guys trying to hunt, no, because
then it's just gonna it splits your time and it
gets complicated and.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Too much pressure, at least for me.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
I'm like, I have sixteen years of applying invested in
this and now guts split this hunt with Steve.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
I don't want to do that.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
I need him cramp in my style.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
No, but if you want to come class for me
and help me find a big bull, I'd.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Be superoked on. I got something I gotta do.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
Speaking of elcome, and you will take his way points
when he's done.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
I can't believe that you guys haven't used this. No,
somehow I had.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
This is the Kivin bugle tube collapsible bugle.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Did you take that on your run because it collapses? No?

Speaker 4 (18:06):
No, But if you didn't see it beforehand, Steve actually
thought that it.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Was a water bottle. I thought it was for technical hydration.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
That's roughly roughly where's that camera there? It is, that's
roughly the size it is.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
So you can put it in a water bottle holder.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yeah, and it fits right in that pocket real nice.
And so when you don't need it. The thing about
when it when you have a full when when you're
carring around something that's always out like this, like I
always have to have a little bungee or string, like.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
For the jackasses at home, you should explain it. You're
holding an elk bugle tube.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Yeah, did I not say that?

Speaker 1 (18:40):
We haven't covered that?

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right off?

Speaker 1 (18:44):
A collapsible bugle tube.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
And when it when you when I'm normally running with
a you know, a full length one that just stays
like this, you gotta have some sort of attachment and
you sling it over your shoulder for most of the
time when you're on an l cunt for let's say
twelve hours day dawn until dusk, Right, you're only actually
l cunting for two hours of it where you're actually

(19:07):
probably gonna be using your bugle too. Maybe you pull
it out midday once and blow on it, see if
you get a response.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Right.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Uh, So I've been using this for two years. I
had a prototype two years ago and then this thing's
already been out for a while. So I had the
same version that you could have last year in my
pack and yeah, it's just nice and tidy because you
don't need to have some string, you know, looped around
your neck. You just tuck it into your water bottle
pocket on your pack and when you need it.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Can you tell the difference with the sound, No, not
at all. The sound doesn't sound collapsible.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
You guys tell me. I think it sounds great, man.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
The people sounds pretty good. I think my headphones sounded good.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Anyways, that's the kive in Bugle two from Fell. Check
it out. I'll be running it this fall, my super bitch, And.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
So did you. I don't want to give away details,
but did you like feel like you were kind of
scouting while you ran or just kind of more getting
a flavor for the air? Flavor flavor for the range,
flavor for the range.

Speaker 4 (20:14):
I'm like, within a couple hundred miles of Okay where
I'll be hunting, they could.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Feasibly wander over that way, like you know, you're rolling
like that. They will.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
You run one hundred.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
Miles in Wyoming and then you kill the biggest bull
of your life in Wyoming the same year.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's pretty cool. Yeah, just because it's my favorite thing, dude,
Yanni knows how to make a noise of an ELK
real far away. Listen. Hm, that's one way off. I
love that man. You're like was that he's close enough
to go though. Uh oh, this is a major correction,
because we really kind of screwed something up. I was

(20:52):
all shooting my mouth off about New Mexico's landowner tag program,
and the guy wrote in he was riled up very rightfully.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So, yes, rightfully so, but not just in an axe
grinding kind of way.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
No.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
No, he was trying to do the good thing for humanity.
He wasn't just trying to settle a score. He just
came in with the correction. So he's gonna tell you
about his correction. Here we go.

Speaker 6 (21:17):
It's truncated, but you'll get the idea, he writes in.
For anyone unfamiliar with e PLUS or the ELK Private
land Use System, it's New Mexico's landowner ELK Authorization program.
One thing that makes New Mexico confusing is that people
often talk about e PLUS as though it's one program
with one set of rules.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
It is not. The primary management zone is where nearly
all of the conversations surrounding unit wide authorizations take place.
It's also where most of New Mexico's elkhunting opportunities exist.
Within that zone. Qualifying ranches have two enrollment options, ranch
only and unit wide. Ranch only authorizations work pretty much
as people assume. The authorization is tied to a single ranch,

(21:57):
The hunter is limited to it, and the landowner can
try rolls access. When a ranch voluntarily enrolls as unit wide,
it earns the ability to receive and sell unit wide
authors as. This is where it starts to get important.

Speaker 6 (22:08):
Yeah, this is where you guys went wrong. They allowed
the hunter to legally hunt public land throughout the game
management unit and every other unit wide ranch within that unit,
and any other private property where permission has been granted.
In exchange, the ranch has to allow access to every
hunter holding a valid ELK license for that unit, with
the exception of those ranch only license holders. That includes

(22:31):
hunters who purchased a unit wide authorization from a completely
different ranch and hunters who drew an ELK for that
unit through New Mexico's public draw.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
See I've read this three times. That didn't get the
public draw part. Yes, yep, exactly, So, you guys made
it out like they're just getting away with murder and
they're not. Well that would come on? Was that much?
I like it.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
This is my segment, And I skated through without anybody
pointing the finger at me because I probably said, Sam, I.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Want to say the same thing over. You know, some
people get this because what we were talking about is
is I I said. A few years ago, I bought
a I bought a unit wide landowner ELK tag in
New Mexico. A thing I forgot is that it was
pointed out to me that that ranch has no ELK

(23:21):
right like this, You're not gonna you can go hunt
it all. You're not gonna find an out there. I
had no idea that anyone that gets those can hunt
any ranch that gets and sells unit wide tags. So
when you go and say I want some unit wide
tags to sell, you're really open in your land up
to a lot of not just people that bought landowner tags,

(23:43):
but dudes. It drew the units.

Speaker 6 (23:46):
Yeah, it's a thing that came up was like how
good are those ranches?

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Though? That can't answer? Yeah that I can't answer, like
our lot, like our are in this area? Is there
ever a dude dude, here'd be the question. Maybe the
same guy can write in, are you aware of any
ranchers who have boku elk on their ranch during season

(24:13):
and do unit wide tags? I think he said in
his email he says, he says I don't do it. Yes,
So that leads me to believe he's got elk, I think.
But I think he said he had hunted.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
Yes, he had hunted other ranches when he drew a
tag through the public draw. He had hunted ranches that
had gotten unit wide tags. And he was like, use
that access opportunity himself, and.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, and he pointed out that he doesn't put his
own ranch in it. Now, my question would be, and
this is a great letter, my question to him would be,
are you doing it because you don't want dudes running
around on your place? Or is it something different? I
don't know. He also talked about his place that E
plus is not perfect. He just had a mischaracterization of it.

(24:58):
No gross mischaracterization that was that was a omission. Yep,
it was being wrong. We're we're considering bringing back the
correction segment. That's a great correction that would have won phenomenal.
Should have sent them I failed to mention Jim Heffelfingers
here today, He quiet, I haven't seen somebody in a while.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
See, we if Montana were to propose something similar to
this E plus, seems like we kind of have a
similar situation where it could help people out that are
like own a bunch of land. They want tags on
the re regular and it would help put some pressure
on these lands to move the ALC around. I don't know,
would you guys support it?

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, he's laying it out. As he's laying it out, Yes.

Speaker 5 (25:40):
Transferable tags because ninety percent, I mean, I believe ninety
percent of these tags are not the unit wide tags.
So I think most most of the e plus tags
are the ranch only tag.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I bought a unit wide yeah, hunted public land and
was told that there's no I didn't go look, but
I was told by not by the guy, but by
other people, like there's no ELK on that place. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
I'm I'm very leery of setting a precedent of transferable
tags that are owned by private landowners.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Would I say yes? I should have said, like, I
don't know if it led to If it led as
if it led to net access increase, then I'd be
like let's talk.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
I'm going to go in charge. I'm going to go further.
I said I was leary of it. I'm I'm adamantly
opposed to it.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
That was my recommendation at the end of the segment,
as I was saying, I'm not condemning what they do,
and all these places have their own histories and how
they came up. But I was saying, if I lived
in a state and we didn't have transferable landowner tags.
I think my suggestion was if one were living in
a state that doesn't currently have them, and someone was

(26:55):
proposing changing the status quo in order to make transferable tag,
I would say, uh.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Uh yeah, I would not trade block management for this system.
No way.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I think they also have a block management system in
New Mexico.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
I don't know anything about Jim. You must have something
to say about this.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
I spend all my time with my sons and my
dad Honting in Arizona. I'm not that familiar with even
next door in their system.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
She does have something to say about it. Another piece
of listener email, real quick, this is just a this
is just a heartwarming story. He says, a few weeks ago,
you guys were talking on the news show about Minnesota
sales tax for outdoor recreation, habitat water and arts. I
just wanted to share a little story about it. What
we're referring to is uh, Minnesota developed an alternate funding mechanism,

(27:47):
which was a it's like a percentage of a penny
of sales tax that goes toward wildlife work. And they're
they got a lot of money doing great stuff with it,
including buying a lot of new public land. Anyways, he says,
my dad was huge on getting people to vote for it.

(28:07):
He had hundreds of signs that he gave people and
helped put them in people's yards. He was very excited
to see that bill get passed. My dad like any
good old Dutchman. That's his racist thing, not mine. You know,
the Dutch in their signs. Jeez. Here's what my dad
knew to be true about He called them Hollanders. Didn't

(28:30):
like them nothing.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
He didn't like them.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
He knew that if you went to a Hollanders yard sale,
they would overcharge to the point where it wasn't even
worth going to a Hollanders yard sale. He'd be like,
yard sale, Hollanders, I'll pass no deals, no deals to
be had there. So he's saying, my dad, like any

(28:53):
good old Dutchman, didn't get rid of the signs after
the election, and over this last seven teen years he's
been using them for all kinds of things. He used.
He uses his signs to pattern his shotgun. He included
photos where he's got his shot up sign and normally
when someone shoots the signs for something totally different, but

(29:14):
this is a guy, this is the owner of the
sign shooting.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
His side recycle.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
He patterns the shotgun with his old signs. He stretches
turkey fans with his own signs. When he needs a
clean fish, he cleans fish on his own his uh
old signs. The last election, even though it's not even
up for a vote anymore, he put his signs back
out again like that.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I like that a lot. Put him in your neighbor's yard.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Sort of victory. Yeah, he stuck him back out just
to remind people about how they did vote to pass it.
That stuff's great. Uh oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
When we did our yard sign that one hanging up.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
There, it's a great sign. I use that for stuff.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
Remember we were at first we're going to do one
side that was going to be a target that you
could get shoot.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
I don't remember it, but I've used that material a
handful of times. I wish I had a stack of
little Oh they're great targets. I wish I had the
foresight to do that. Anyways, dope smokers they can buy
guns now they can.

Speaker 5 (30:12):
Yeah, it's been a I mean, if you're paying attention
to the news, there's a lot of action at the
Supreme Court right now, as there is uh this time
of year.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, they've been tearing a new one down there at
the Supreme Court. A lot of decisions.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
So there's there are two major Second Amendment rulings this well,
I guess now it's July. So in June both went
in favor of gun owners. And well, well, yeah, the
one went in favorite gun owners. The other one went
in favor of dope smokers.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
That's true, dope smoking gun owners is a question. Yeah,
the prompted the question, and I want to I want
to hear about the story. But the prompt the question, Well,
tell the story and then I'll tell the biggest thing
that comes to my mind when I hear it. Well,
so I'll tell you right now. So there's two.

Speaker 5 (30:59):
There's there's the case that was decided is United States
versus HARMANI has decided on June eighteenth, And before we
get into that, there is another. In order to understand
why the Court did what it did, you have to
look at this other case from twenty twenty two, which
the New York.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
State Rifle and Pistol Association versus Bruin.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
And in that case, it had to do with New
York's handgun licensing system, where you had to show cause
for why you needed a carry permit, and the Court
struck down that New York law. And what it did
in doing that was it established a new set of
criteria by which the Supreme Court assesses the constitutionality of

(31:44):
gun laws. Prior to that New York State Rifle and
Pistol Association case, what they did was they asked whether
the law burdened your Second Amendment rights and then weighed
that the individual's interest against the government's interest in public safety.

(32:04):
And so they it was like a very much sort
of facts of the matter waying two sides, and in
New York State Rifle and Pistol Association, they instead established
what it's called the history and tradition tests. So under
this framework, the court basically asks does the Second Amendment

(32:26):
cover the conduct in question here? And then it puts
the burden on the government to show that what they're
doing has is consistent with historical tradition of firearm regulation
in America. And they basically are looking at early America
and saying, is there something back then that sort of

(32:50):
can be used as precedent, although that's not how you'd
use the legal language, but basically, is there something in
the past that says this is what sort of the
founders had in mind? So in this in this Hawani,
in this Hamani case, the one that we're talking about
with the dope smokers, this is a guy who his

(33:10):
house was raided by the FBI in twenty twenty two
during a terrorism investigation.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
No, no charges came out.

Speaker 5 (33:17):
Yeah, it's kind of interesting when you know, there's not
a lot of news coverage that gets into the fullback story.
But he had he they found a gun, I believe
it was a Glock nineteen. They found a little baggy
of cocaine, and they found some marijuana. He admitted to
the FBI that he smokes marijuana, uses marijuana every other day,

(33:38):
and so then he was charged the other day every
other day, not every day, every other day consistently, consistently recreationally,
but not every day.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Like odd numbers on the calendar.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Never on Tuesday, Thursday.

Speaker 5 (33:52):
Yeah, and so he was. He was charged with three felonies.
One for you know, when you fill out a four
four seven three when you're buying a gun from an FFL.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Randa likes to flex that he knows those numbers. Yeah,
well I learned a new one. This is nine two
G three.

Speaker 5 (34:07):
That's the uh, that's the dope smoker clause under US Code.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, anyone that goes and buy when you go to
buy a gun, they give you that little form. Yeah,
and you gotta go. Uh. I believe it's yes yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
yes yes no.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:20):
They change something like they they changed the questions around
at one point and I noticed it and I said
something to the after phone.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
He's like, good, no, good eye. It's just like, have
you ever renounced your citizenship? Yeah? Do you have a
restraining order against you? Are you a fugitive from the law,
Have you been dishonorably discharge, dishonorably discharged from the military,
and if any of those is a yes, right, you're you're, you're,
your purchase gets denied and they ask you are you
don't smoke it?

Speaker 5 (34:46):
They say, are you an unlawful user of or addicted
to marijuana or any depressant or stimulant drug, unlawful substances,
things of that nature. So he got charged with felony
for answering no when that they say you had weed
in your house?

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, same thing had Hunter Biden.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
Yeah, And he got charged with a felony because one
he answered no to that that becomes part of the
FFL's records. So he got another felony for his answer
becoming permanent records that the FFL has to maintain.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
I'm assuming he was a legal owner of that clock nineteen.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Well, yeah, because he filled out the form. Well, I
lied on it.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
But it wasn't like it wasn't no.

Speaker 5 (35:30):
Yeah, he he he had filled out a four to
seventy three. So anyway, he got hit with these three felonies,
all stemming from the fact that he uses marijuana and
he owns a gun. The court ruled unanimously for him
in throwing out those convictions. Justice Gorsus wrote the opinion

(35:50):
and he uses the history and tradition test that I
talked about earlier. And it's kind of funny because what
they looked at was they looked at old laws, the
closest analog they could find, where old laws that pertain
to quote, habitual drunkards.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
We're okay now though.

Speaker 5 (36:07):
Yeah, well yeah, I mean there's all there's you can
look at this on a number of different levels, right, Like,
but he he says, essentially those laws only applied to
people who were totally incapacitated by their drinking, and not
just users of alcohol. He said, you know, if you're you,
if it's just someone who uses like unlawful substances, it

(36:28):
could be if you take your wife's ambient. Every these
are his I'm not just pulling drug references out, but
he's like, he's like, by the government's definition of an
unlawful user, it could be someone who takes their wife's
ambient to get to sleep. It could be a college
student who borrows friends adderall to to study for a
test or something like that. Like, they're very they're very narrow.

(36:51):
They could be very narrow instances, and the law leaves
a lot of gray area. And so this is one
of the issues with the laws that it's it's just vague.
They didn't really address the vagueness question this, which which
leaves the door open for further There are some people
that would have liked the court to clear that up,
but they basically said that someone using an unlawful substance

(37:15):
doesn't immediately forfeit their Second Amendment rights.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
I read this thing though. I read this the totally
wrong way. I like, I arrived in the same place
a totally different way when I saw the headline for this.
In my mind, it was that now that the weeds
not federally legal, you have all these state legalities. So

(37:40):
when I'm filling out that form and I see a
line and I'm in a like weed legal state, I'm
in a weed legal state filling out the form and
I see the form asking me are you addicted to marijuana?
Why doesn't it say are you addicted to booze? Right?
So that's when I was reading like that. I was like,
with with legalization and we're eventually headed to federal it'll

(38:06):
be decriminalized federally eventually. So I was like, why are
you pointing out this one substance but you're not pointing
out alcohol. It's like why because alcohol is legal. It's like, well,
weed's legal, so they shouldn't be asking you about oh,
if you're are you using a thing that's totally legal
that you can buy down the road. And if you
are using this totally legal thing you can buy down

(38:28):
the road, you can't get a gun. That to me
is a more but it's compelling argument.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
They're not concerned with whether it's legal in a state.
They're concerned with the federal laws.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
I know, yeah, but I just I get so when
I encounter that question that when I'm doing my FFL thing,
which is frequent, I always pause and say, how could
that still be when it's legal? Or to make it consistent,
you'd have to point out, are you addicted to alcohol?

Speaker 5 (38:57):
The interesting thing about nine to twenty two G three
Okay is that the language comes from the Gun Control
Act of nineteen sixty eight. And I was doing some
reading and reading some congressional reports about this, and it
seems like the way that made it in there was
elective officials were just kind of like, well, this all

(39:17):
makes sense, and and just wrote that language without much
debate or consideration, because it is it's just asking do
you use drugs or are you addicted to substances? Which
are not they're not things that are established in the
legal process. No, right, Like, sure a court could say

(39:38):
you're convicted of illegal drug use, right, But you're asking
someone to say something that there's no public process by
which they've been determined to be an addict.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, it's not like you get like a card. Yeah,
you got to go apply for an addiction card. You'd
like if you said to me, you know, I used
to like to pull a cork, if you said to me,
are you addicted lhol, I would have been like, am
I drink every day? But no? Right? Right?

Speaker 5 (40:05):
And the first I mean, that's that's the first step
is denial, right, Like that's that's what's so funny about
it is the governments asking you are you addicted to
a substance? Most addicts are probably gonna say no.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Hell no. And then how does the court prove that
you knew you were an addict? But even though you
write so, it's so. But there's all this vagueness. I
could see if it's said, if the form said like
are you a user of an illegal are you an
user of a legal substance. But then picture this if

(40:37):
depending on what state, give me a non legal state Texas, No,
this is this happened in what was a non legal
probably in Utah. Okay, let's let's just say let's just
let's just go out a limb and say marijuana has
not been legalized in Utah. Yeah. So if you're taking
a federal form and the federal form said something to

(40:58):
the effect of are you a user of illegal or
controlled substances such as blank by blank? Here, you have
a situation where a guy in Utah has to say yes,
but a guy but a guy in New York gets
to say no on a federal form.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
What's going to happen to that? Is that question staying
on the forum?

Speaker 5 (41:15):
Randall, Yeah, I mean the court ruling doesn't change anything, right,
and and another how.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Could I not change anything?

Speaker 5 (41:25):
It's the Supreme Court. Well, where do you go from there?
I mean, it doesn't rewrite the law, is what I mean. Like,
the Court has made a decision that if you're convicted
under this, it's unconstitutional, but it doesn't. Actually, it doesn't
automatically go into US Code and rewrite it. One of
the issues with this, and this is Something that also
came up in the in the Hunter Biden case is

(41:49):
that it's got to refresh.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
People real quick. Yeah, Hunter Biden bought a handgun during
a period that he later admitted to being addicted to
crack cocaine. Yeah about we're not talking about weed, you
were talking about crack, right.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
But it's it's it's like it's vague enough that it's
not There aren't very many cases prosecuted under this part
of the you know, like like whatever cases come up
for lying on a four four seven three, this is
a very small, like single digit percentage of them. And

(42:24):
so he made the case, and Hunter Biden made the
case that they were being selectively prosecuted, Yeah, because it
is vague, and.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
They don't and they generally I remember reading about this
in Washington State, where you have a lot of people
in Washington State being like, we want more gun laws,
we want more gun laws. But then someone pointing out,
you don't force the gun laws you had, And they
went and looked at how many people they were prosecuting
for lying on that FFL form, And they don't prosecute
anyone for lying on that form. They've never gone after anybody.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
For lying on that form well and the ATA or
the I guess maybe yeah, it's ATF Internal Guidance. It
actually says like you using drugs, failing a drug test,
or being charged with with a crime having to do
with drug possession or use one of those three things
does not constitute a violation. Like if you were to

(43:14):
say yes and you'd use drugs, Uh, they say that's
not a lie, right Like that, The ATF Internal Guidance
actually has a fairly high standard for what constitutes lying
on that form, Like you might have failed a drug
test once, but you can still answer no truthful cort.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
That's like most like most of the other questions are
very binary. Yeah, do you have a restraining order? There's
not a lot of you guys. If you're like, well, yeah,
I mean you do, you don't, right, Like have you
ever renounced your citizenship? You would be like, well, you know,
one time, it's you either did or didn't so I

(43:52):
could see it. Yeah, I was joking about dope smokers
and all that.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
Well, I think you'd like to know that marijuana remains
fully you egle for both rack and comprehensive medical use. Idaho, Kansas,
South Carolina, and Wyoming. Only four states left.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
What's Utah got going on?

Speaker 4 (44:11):
I didn't go that deep, but who.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Makes it illegal? Who makes it illegal?

Speaker 4 (44:14):
For Idaho, Kansas, South Carolina and Wyoming completely illegal all
the way?

Speaker 1 (44:20):
And yeah, medicinally, I feel like Wyoming's kind of got
like a little bit of more of a libertarian streak.
I guess not.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
My son used worked behind the gun counter sports and warehouse,
and he said, people come in and fill out the
forty four seventy three, answer all the questions and then
he'd ask for an ID and they'd pull out their
medical marijuana card.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
As a joke.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
No, no, like, all right, we'll throw that form away.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, it's good. They cleaned that one up. Oh the
other point I had, it's an easy point. Yeah, And
I think that this is answerable. It was like, if
you had to encounter in a bad situation at eye
guy with a gun or a drunk guy with a gun,
what would you pick? I think most people would pick

(45:07):
the high guy.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah. I think there's like it's been clear to be
established that like the drunks are violin.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah, gun, Like, hey man, you can go you can
go confront that stoned guy with a gun. And confront
the drunk guy. I'm like, I'll take the stoner.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, same thing with being behind a steering wheel.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Who's better?

Speaker 4 (45:31):
Well, like, which one would you rather have driving next
to you on the interstate.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
That I don't know enough about? I don't know about that,
I'd take the stoner. Yeah, any owner.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Windstorm logging stoner is to storm logging.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
I picked up the story from Nate because I saw
windstorm logging, and you know, since I'm basically an expert
on logging these days, since we logged our forty acres
in Wisconsin couple of years ago, I'm like, yeah, this'll
be easy. Turns out not a story really about it
is about logging, but it's just so more complicated. So

(46:10):
about a week ago, the Daily Montana reported United State's
Forest Service announces the emergency logging project over five million
acres in Montana and Idaho, and the basics are because
of two major straight line wind events. USFS made a
planned expedite logging operations to salvage timber reduced habitat for

(46:33):
pine beetle type insects, citing safety concerns and limiting wildfire conditions.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
For those of you that don't know.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
A straight line wind event is like where you have
is like the temperatures change rapidly and you have to
like really cold air rushing down sometimes associated with moisture,
and it basically just comes straight down and then shoots,
you know, wind and straight lines, you know every direction?

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Is there a difference between a microburst and a straight
line wind event? Very similar?

Speaker 4 (47:00):
When I was looking up straight line event when events,
it looked like it was a synonym levels how long
ago it was that, Oh we had him here in
Gallatin County. It was it was December of twenty twenty five,
and then uh I think I think was it March
or April of twenty six? And uh, I can tell

(47:21):
you because a snowmobile route that I like to drive
and check her line tracks on. I did two days
of cutting in December tastes so we could get through
it with actually a friend to Jake's chase, and then
late in the year we had to come back and
do it again because it just got wrecked by those weeks.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
I was on the trailer day and it was I
was like, I pity the guy that gets up here
on a mule and the like, you're just.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Not the idea behind the longing is they only have
so much time to use that stuff for it goes bad.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Well, here here's the deal.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
So to really get into the weeds of this, you
got to go back about a year, because, yeah, originally
when I first read it, I'm like, great, we're making
use some timber that's already down preventing you know, more
pine beetles.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Awesome.

Speaker 4 (48:09):
But if you go back about a year. March twenty
twenty five, Trump signed an executive order titled Immediate Expansion
of American Timber Production. And basically in the four or
so months following that, the USFS, BLM, Fish and Wildlife Service,
they were all ordered to rework their processes to fast
track logging prior.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Remember that because it was like the anti Canada thing, right,
because we were using too much Canadian lumber.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
I think one of the things that they say is
that we should just be using more of our own
own lumber.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Right.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
So basically the way they did that was that like
getting rid or at least minimizing like all the NEPA policies,
which is National Environmental for Policy Act rescinding the two
thousand and one roll this rule, which that's like still
in the works reorganizing the USDA in general around like
we've talked about this before on this show, like where

(49:06):
the headquarters are now right for the USFS, They've kind
of gotten a lot of people out of d C
and put them in regional places, a lot less people
on the ground to help work through this stuff. The
key here is that the order treats ESA consultation requirements
as a source of delay for timber and forestry projects

(49:28):
on federal land, and it directs agencies to speed those
requirements up whenever the law allows. Farther, the ESA has
an expedited consultation process meant for genuine emergencies. The order
directs agencies to use this emergency pathway max to the
maximum extent permissible to facilitate timber production. And if you

(49:50):
remember what I said two minutes ago when I read
that headline, this is an emergency, right, So that's kind
of where we're at. The backlash like has come because
they basically slipped it out this plan. It's like it
wasn't brought out to any the media. Some people got
wind of it and there was like a week long

(50:12):
comment period, which is already passed it ended on June
twenty ninth, a couple of days ago.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
So people are like pissed.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
So basically, I mean, I don't know what else there
really is to report on it other than like do.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
They got to construct roads or not construct roads?

Speaker 2 (50:29):
And they're pissed along, like, correct me if I'm wrong.
They're pissed along kind of partisan lines. Sure, correct, Oh
I would, I would imagine.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
So, yeah, when I've seen if they if they weren't,
we should figure out and just trap it and bottle
it up and sprinkle it on every other issue out there.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
I've seen one thing that makes it not an emergency
with an upper case E but an emergency with a
lower case E. Is. Sometimes this will happen when there's
a big burn is. They'll want to go in. They'll
be like, let's go do a timber harvest and harvest
all the burn timber. Yeah, and all you all the
all you gotta do if you're a if you're an
anti logging organization, all you need to do is litigate

(51:10):
it to stall it long enough for the stuff to
dry and corkscrew because the trees dry and twist and
they're no good anyways. Yeah, So if you could be like,
if you can hold them back for I don't know
what it is, six months, eight months, I don't know.
If you can hold them back, then it's like becomes
there's no point to it because the timbers all gone.
So lowercase E would be, if you're really going to

(51:32):
go utilize this for real, you gotta go now or
else you're not gonna be able to utilize it, right,
it's going to dry out.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
That brings up another tricky point in this is that
the plan is like a five year plan, and so
some of the people against it are saying, oh, really
it's an emergency, but we're gonna like we have five
years to get this.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Timber by then it's called firewood.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
Yeah, they're thinking that it's just really opening it up
to like just generally more commercial logging. I talked to
a guy that connected to the forest Service. His questions,
and that's what what sort of I think what might
takeaway is like it's time to it's just good to

(52:11):
ask questions like what constitutes an emergency in this case,
right like if those trees are left, like maybe there's
more pine beetles. We don't know that for sure, right
it we might have a severe winter for the severe
winters for the next four years, it might not happen, right,
I think there's places where there's fall and timber over

(52:32):
roads and near public use areas. Should that be cleaned up?

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah, fhigher risk would be upper case E sure.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
I mean that's like another like just a whole nother
you know, can of worms. Like there's all kinds of
forest management that you know has increased fire risk, you know,
in our country. So there is a line in there
that says in quotes, and this project will contribute towards
forrest resilience, community protection, and ingress egress the old.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Yeah, there's the old sticker. So again could be fine.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Like I a state too that For the most part,
I'm like very pro logging, especially these days. I don't
think I grew up that way, but the more I've
learned in my adulthood, Like, I think logging can be great.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Right, there's a lot of logging the needs to happen.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Yeah, it's like good for habitat, good for jobs, good
for economy, all the above. But I think you got
to do it in the right way.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, it's like yelling at your kids sometimes you got to.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yell at them.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
That's right, but you should do it in the right
way right away. It can't yelling all the time.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Yeah. The firston I talked to said, you know, think
about trade offs. Right there's salvaging timber and limiting bugs
versus the additional road building. You know, what do all
those things do? They felt like these days, uh, you know,
anything come out of the current administration can be regarded

(54:04):
or regarding land management should be viewed with a high
degree of skepticism because they felt like the economic bottom
line is what's important to them, and then discussing environmental
trade offs is really just getting in the way. So
as far as what we can do now, it doesn't
like comment periods over, but I think you can still
engage with the Forest Service and you can just pay

(54:27):
attention and understand what the plans are and when you're
gonna see them probably in action, and if they're diverging
from what's supposed to be happening, you know, say something
about it.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Interesting concepts in there.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
It's tricky, tricky, tricky, tricky moose moose like, uh, that
kind of happened to a brody.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Sure, I love they love it. You know, I'll tell
you what they don't like is here's but this is
anir thing. Just to go back to step away from
moose from it, you get some of those areas, like
what you're talking about where all that stuff blows down.
If we're just talking about a habitat issue, you get
some areas that it becomes not usable. Yeah yeah, game
don't use it. Oh for sure, they can't get through it.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Just match sticks on.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
It's like you have. You can have huge areas become
that like it's just too hazardous. They can't get in it,
and then it winds up being that nothing uses it.
So in those cases, if you can do it without
like just tons of excessive road building and then future
and then future of like massive amounts of traffic, go
clean those areas up, you're also making besides the cuts,

(55:41):
make good successional forest habitat. There's places. I mean, you
can go look at places all day around here there's
too much blowdown. Oh yeah, it's like just too much blowing.
It'll eventually it'll be good. Yeah, it'll rot.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
And there's there. I mean, I don't want to say
a big game maybe doesn't use it. That doesn't mean
that birds and small game aren't using it in there
and in a.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Human lifetime, a human lifetime doesn't see this. But long term,
sure it decays and all that long long term. But
like you know, if you're forty and there's an area
that's just too much blowdown, Uh.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
You're not gonna be hot when you're fifty.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
It's basically for you.

Speaker 5 (56:20):
No, here's a transition we were I was hiking in Missoula,
like a couple of months ago with my brother, and
I couldn't believe the amount of blowdown, like huge root
balls just up in the air from that windstorm that is,
and that same trail.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
He's been running into a moose. He's running into him
three times now. Nice, Well, he's drawn to that root
wad tailor made. Just that's a transition.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
We're gonna talk about moose in the Southern Shifting baseline
syndrome of shyris moose in the Southern Rockies. Uh. You've
talked about shifting baseline syndrome a number of times, but
if you're not familiar, Shifting baseline syndrome mccurs when each

(57:04):
generation inherits kind of an altered perception of their world
compared to the last generation. For example, like gradually forgetting
what an ecosystem's original or formal state looked like.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Yeah, it's like people that My favorite is when people say, like,
you know, boy, Montana sure changed a lot. I'm like,
you should talk to the Blackfeet about that exactly.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
So, yeah, everyone experiences it. They just like forget what
happened or they weren't like present when things were different.
So like my former understanding of moose shyris moose in
Colorado was, along with a lot of other people, was
that they probably weren't This is just like I always heard,

(57:47):
they probably weren't native, and occasionally they wandered into the
northern part of the state. Historically. A recent study at
the University of Colorado, Boulder and that GEO they they
were fute that that belief that move that moose or
this like non native or even some people will even
call them invasive species, which I don't agree with that

(58:10):
all the invasive part. And they did this, they were
fute this by tracing archaeological evidence, historical texts, indigenous oral histories,
and archae uh I said, arch.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Dude's old photos.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Yeah, and we'll get to that. Yeah, pictures and like
you might like wonder like how this would even happen,
like like this kind of gap where people are like, oh,
they were never here, when they probably were like, this
isn't hard and fast. They're not saying one hundred percent
that there was always moose in Colorado, but it's like

(58:48):
leaning heavily in that direction. And one of the ways
that you they figured that this was able to occur
that people kind of forgot about them is European settle
set like like they didn't frequently record moose encounters in
the southern Rockies Colorado in particular, and then later moose
were likely in those areas were likely hunted to localized

(59:11):
extinctions during like late nineteenth early twentieth century, like a
lot of other species. So by the time like the
forties and fifties rolled around Colorado, wildlife managers just had
no knowledge or experience with moose and they just simply
assumed that moose were not native to the state. They
were never there. So the baseline was like incorrectly reset

(59:35):
to support the idea that moose were historically absent. So
when when a introduction or whether you want to call
it reintroduced or introduced that there was a program established
in nineteen seventy eight in Colorado to cut moose loose.
They were classif they classified those moose as a non

(59:55):
native introduced species, not as a native species. So another
like example of this shifting baseline syndrome with for that
hunters can relate to, especially like people of our age,
would be wild turkeys. So like from the early twentieth
century to let's say, I would say, like in my head,

(01:00:16):
like around nineteen ninety, like close to the time I
graduated high school. It's like when we just started like
seeing turkeys in places we had never seen them before.
But like hunters for generations were used to just there
was very few turkeys around then all over the damn place.
They really quickly got used to having turkeys everywhere, and

(01:00:37):
that's their baseline now. And now we're seeing these like
declines in populations, Like what's going on? So like that
baseline might change in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yeah you want and be like, what's going on? Is
that you got used to something that lasted about three years?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah exactly exactly. But like I remember like turkeys being
like unicorns, man, just didn't exist where I grew up,
and now they're everywhere. But going back to this study.
They they they are using archaeological remains, I said, indigenous
accounts and early written accounts. So there's a couple archaeological

(01:01:16):
sites once located near Greeley, Colorado, which is pretty close
to Denver, and it's moose remains dating back nine thousand years.
Another one is mesa Verday National Park, which is like
southwestern Colorado moose bone specimens dating back a thousand years.
And the idea is that like, because there's a kind

(01:01:36):
of a time span between these dated remains, like that
they're probably present throughout that time. There's more examples of
bones and teeth and things like that. They do acknowledge
like they need to study these these like remains for
further biochemical and radio carbon verification. But so there's like

(01:02:00):
hard physical evidence. And then you go to like Native
American oral history, so the Hickory Apache and the Northern Arapah,
they have language markers like words for moose that show
up frequently. They have stories and songs where moose show up.
So there's like that's some major evidence there. And then

(01:02:21):
if you go to nineteenth century early twentieth century newspaper
records and photo archives, you'll find more evidence, and they're like,
do we have that map, Riva, that first one? There
we go. So this is like shows all these records
of moose sightings at a time when you know, there

(01:02:43):
was supposed to be no moose in Colorado. Those are
just like some of the recorded instances of confirmed sightings.
Front Range media, local newspapers, archives, and Pine year diaries
throughout the eighteen hundred. The eighteen hundreds frequently reported sightings

(01:03:05):
along the Front Range, which is like not you know,
like the Denver area is not real close to the
Wyoming border where they are considered native. And these historical
counts didn't like just note like wide ranging bulls. They
documented cows and calves, which suggests a breeding population. And

(01:03:26):
there is some photographic evidence too. There's a picture of
a railroad worker from nineteen twelve. If we got that
picture Reva and he's standing over a dead cow and
calf and that chopper the tie chopper, Yeah, railroad lumber
worker nineteen twelve, and that's fair play, which is like
southwest of Denver, kind of in the middle of the state.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Can argue that guy's got a great posture too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Board then there's a there's a Milton Estes. I did
not know that's who Ess Park was was named after.
But it's like a it's a town right on the
border of Rocky Mountain National Park.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
This old kypeful queed back out from it. Yeah. Yeah,
this this tie chopper.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
I had to shoot the cow and the calf.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Huh, Well, shot the cow and then the calf would
just standing. They had hungry you know, they had some
hungry railroad workers man. But there Yeah, a gentleman named
Milton Estus strikes me as like an old time like
whatever railroad baron or something something like that. Yeah, he
shot a bull near Estes Park, and that that area

(01:04:33):
where he shot that bull is now named Moose.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Park eighteen sixty three. Yep, can I Can I share
something real? The Blackfoot word I was sucks? I remember
it was cool. The Blackfoot word for moose six sis.
That's my just rough pronunciation. You know what. It translates
to black going out of sight.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
That is man.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Yeah, a rappo. It's hen and he and then he
translates the big man. I like that. The other one
I cannot. There's no way I'm gonna pronounce which it
references the moose's large, flat nose. But anyway, so there's
your reverence that that there's probably moose were probably in

(01:05:22):
the southern Rockies in Colorado, and that they're probably native.
If you look at what's happened since we got a
map from nineteen eighty two, which is after the introduction
started in Colorado, it's a teeny weeny little spot there
in the Flat Tops area of Colorado where they cut

(01:05:43):
some moose loose in the late seventies. And then you
fast forward to the next map, which is twenty fifteen,
and it's like, damn, they're all over the place. And
that was ten years ago. Mexico, I'm sure. I mean,
they're so close to the border they got to at
least end up down in there at some time. And yeah,

(01:06:06):
this map was ten years ago that population, but not
that population has increased even more in the past ten years.
So this shifting baseline syndrome, it kind of shaped decades
of wildlife management and public perception of moose because they
were viewed as non natives, so recognizing them as natives

(01:06:28):
could impact like future management decisions.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
The initial introduction of twenty four animals YEP estimated populations
thirty five, thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Five, six, and seventy moose tags was by far out
of the Western States, like more available moose tags than
any other states.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
Is that something that cbw' is considering is I.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Don't think they've got this. This study just came out,
like CPW is not even involved with it yet. I
don't know if they'll like formally recognize them as natives.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Was there a said reason in for the study? Someone
was just like I think because it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Was just for the longest time, it was just this unknown.
It was like, are they aren't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
They probably they probably knew a lot about it. It
burned their ass they were calling them non native. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
There was a similar case with bison in the Grand
Canyon area where the Park Service considered them non native.
And there's about three manuscripts now that do the same thing.
They look at archaeological evidence and and document that they
were native. It was at the fringe of the range
in the planes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
But then and then then you do this, you go, well, sure,
but not a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
But also it looks like they've got a lot of
evidence for for moose, but the nine thousand year old
they need to stop using those kind of things, because yeah,
we had we had mammoth eight thousand years ago on
Wrangle Island, right right, that's not.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Really what there was, like Caribou and Ohio.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Yeah yeah, And you know, bones can have a way
of showing up in weird places. But I think they
got a solid case for what they're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
Well, you're going to when you mark stuff back, it's
like march it back. Everybody's got their own pick. But
if I was look at that, I'd be like, hey,
we're gonna go back to European contact.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Well yeah, and one of them they did have thousand
year old which is a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Yeah, a lot clothes, but yeah, go back to European
Contact and see what's going on. They had a ton.
That's a good I feel like that's always a good
base on.

Speaker 4 (01:08:14):
This is working in my favorite because I think I've
got like fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Points or something.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
I got quite a few moose in Colorado.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Just help them wolves, don't eat them all.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
You're right now. I thought about that.

Speaker 6 (01:08:28):
Well, speaking of growing cop populations, what do you got, Nate,
North Carolina Elk season coming at you in.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Twenty North Carolina opener?

Speaker 6 (01:08:38):
Yeah, man, So here's the deal Elk Eastern elk they're
extra paid. North Carolina eighteen hundred and reave. If you
can pull up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
That blue map, this is the most depressing map in
the world. It's so sad.

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Look we're looking at is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Current versus historic elk range. Basically, if you're listening, you're
in elk country. Yeah, unless you live in Texas or
well California, live in the lower Florida nine tenths of Texas,
the Atlantic coast.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
What's is that the Great Basin that's between California and
Nevada there where they.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Weren't eastern California, western Nevada.

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
And so you'll see if you look real close in
western North Carolina there's a tiny little blue dot and
that is where in two thousand and one North Carolina
introduced I heard of fifty two elk in a Great
Smoky Mountain National Park. Following for about fifteen years population growth,
twenty sixteen, the state agency created a framework for hunting,

(01:09:39):
and twenty eighteen General Assembly made a resident and non
resident license. Now that's great, but take a guess at
how much of that not that resident elk license.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
That's beefy. That's a beefy pro. Throw a number out
there if you haven't seen it. I've been looking at it.
The whole five hundred dollars for a resident license. That's like,
that's cheat non resident that is about That is about
four hundred and fifty bucks more than I would picture.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
I don't think it's expensive to get the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Relative to other opportunities, it's expensive.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
It doesn't doesn't bother me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Well, you must speak in California saying what bothers? You
can almost hunt for a decade in it's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Ab but there's not many of them there.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
It's gonna the only like I agree with you, Brodie,
because if they're like, oh, it's a great way to
raise money, but it is definitely going to limit opportunities.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
You can't do that for some kid. Some fourteen year
old kid draws it, he's got to come up with
five hundred bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
He starts to gofund me. He'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
Listen, if your fourteen year old kid and you draw it,
we'll buy it. Yeah, there you go. But you got
to be a resident fortune. Will you choose my words
very carefully? Fourteen year old resident or fourteen year old resident?
Elk hunter in North Carolina. If you draw as a
resident in North Carolina and you're fourteen, we will buy
your license and Yanni will come bugle for you. Yeah, fifteen,

(01:11:00):
your a screw of teen year old at the time
of draw. Fourteen of draw, well, you'll probably get some
California fourteen year olds writ and in because their resident
ELK tag is five hundred and ninety five bucks. It's rich.
It's a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:11:13):
Utah's three fourteen arizonas one hundred and thirty five. So
North Carolina will spend the as a non resident, which
they will have tags for potentially one thousand bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Stick, yeah, stick it to them, Stick it to them.
They're already spending all kinds of money exactly Like they're like,
that's a By the time they spend all the other money,
that won't even matter. Ye.

Speaker 6 (01:11:33):
So that takes us to today House Bill seven four
to seven, which passed the House with only one dissenting vote,
and it's being considered by the Senate, and that would
authorize two tags, one by raffle and one by auction
for the twenty twenty seven hunting season, which stretches from
October first November first.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Oh Man, just to have that tag.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Oh dude, yea, So those license prices don't mean anything anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
So what what do you mean, Because you're not going
to win it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Because you're gonna get it by raffle.

Speaker 6 (01:12:04):
So your the raffle rules twenty bucks per ticket and
you can buy a max of thirty Okay, so you
can put five hundred bucks in.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
So they're they're they're they're all not auctioning. They're doing
a draw for how many for one one, then that's
a raffle.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
It's a raffle one five hundred dollars elk tag.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
It could be a thousand if a resident wins. Right,
So there's two permits, so do it one by auction,
one by oh but then so if you win, then
you got a pony. Up five, then you got a
pony I got.

Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
So I'm surprised that for one tag that's in the
draw that they're letting non residents in.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Yep, dude, actual quick, North Carolina, real quick. This is
from a place of love.

Speaker 6 (01:12:49):
That's not true if you're going to make a statement
on that, because half of the raffle tag's got to
be reserved for not North Carolina residents. And so in
this first draw. That raffle will go to North Carolina residence.
The auction, which is how the other permit's going, facilitated
by a yet to be determined nonprofit. That one is
just your typical governor's tag auction.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
This is the message for North Carolina. It's not too late. Yeah,
you're gonna have two ELK tags. You can't not auction
one of them off. You are getting off on the
wrong foot. Yep, you are getting off. This is you
are setting a terrible This is from a place of love.

(01:13:31):
You are setting a terrible precedent that you're gonna build
a public ELK cared. Your lawmakers are sitting a terrible price.
You're gonna build a public elcred issue two tags, and
one half of it goes to the highest bidder.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Come on, I'll play devil's advocate, though there are the
people are gonna say, what an opportunity to raise five
hundred thousand dollars to go?

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
I don't care arguments both those tags raffles.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Yep, I'm gonna say what the argument's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
I would say, both those tags raffles raise a bunch
of money like that? You can't it can't be that
the sandwich shop guy or whoever that always buys all
these buys this.

Speaker 6 (01:14:16):
It's funny you mentioned that because they did a survey
in twenty two about just ELK support in general, and
sixty one percent of the folks are all for regulated
ELK cunting of like local landowners. Nineteen percent approve of
non North Carolina residents ELK cutting.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Yeah, that's great. They're making a huge mistake to auction
I'm not even getting to the resident non resident thing.
Auctioning off fifty percent of your thing to the highest
bidder and removing fifty percent of the tags from ninety
nine point nine percent of North Carolinians or Americans in

(01:14:53):
general and handing it off to the highest bidder is
just shitty. It's stupid.

Speaker 5 (01:14:58):
We need a billionaire in North Caare aligned to step
up buy that auction raffles? Yeah, or just make sure
it doesn't go to a non North Carolinian.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
It's just terrible. They shouldn't be doing that. Do a raffle,
do a draw, don't do that.

Speaker 6 (01:15:16):
Moving forward, they have a rule where if they add
another they have to add an additional raffle tag before
they add another auction tag. But it could just grow.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
That's good. Equally, it could just be like two and
two and four auction. This is just a T shirt
saying auction half your opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
You come from a big auction state, Jim, what do
you think about that?

Speaker 3 (01:15:39):
A former auction state, Our commission stop auctioning and we
do raffles for those we don't have an auction tag anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
I'm not anti auction tag. I'm anti having half and
whatever the numbers, I'm anti having half of your tag
allocation go to the highest bidder. Auction states usually take
what one in one hundred, like a percent up percent,
two percent of the opportunity to the highest bidder. Okay, sure,

(01:16:09):
that's fine, fifty percent.

Speaker 5 (01:16:13):
I could see it being a if it was a
one time deal that was just like this money is
to get the ELK management give it some legs, right
like I could. But to just have this be the
perpetual allocations.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Here's what I'd do. I'd sell it to the highest
bidder and then raffle that money off. You buy a
raffle to win all that money. I like that idea
or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
Yeah, that's what this don't name ELK here like.

Speaker 6 (01:16:45):
This is the best part is you go on on
North Carolina State Agency and they have all these recommendations
on being elk smart, bi alka ware, YadA, YadA. One
of the bullet points is, I quote, don't name elk.
Characterizing elk or any wildlife by naming them degrades their
wild essence. The very reason people are drawn to elk

(01:17:06):
is their unaltered independence from human from humans. Personifying elk
as humans takes away from their truly wild nature.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
I agree that non hunters have no business naming elk.
Coming from a guy who just named him mouse. Yeah, yeah,
non hunters should not name them. But if hunters can't
call them old picket fence, the old drop time, how's
supposed to know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Colorado's got a whole anti poaching lawn named after an
elk Samson lawn. Oh really yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Yeah, but nine hunters should't name them like old ketz
whatever they name stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
No, yeah, I'm one hundred percent against naming animals. With
researchers naming individual animals, and I have graduate students that
start naming things, and I tell you, not naming animals.
Scientists don't name animals, but that's a different wrinkle. I
hadn't thought about hunters name it. Oh yeah, all of
their target bucks a different name.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
I didn't think of that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
I mean, you can always say that one buck. There
be so many bucks into that one buck.

Speaker 6 (01:18:06):
Moving into another state that's near and dear to my
heart Ohio. A active listener and burgeoning conservationist, Josh she
Han wrote in about twelve thousand acre purchase of private
land for state recreation Ohio. I think I think it's
super important because Ohio is one of the lowest rates
of public land in the US. It's like two point
five percent. And they've they've just passed They've just passed it.

(01:18:30):
Governor signed it. A four billion dollar infrastructure bill which
covers parks and public buildings, museums, one hundred k for
the Johnny Appleseed Museum, twenty five million for Central State
gesture towards me when you said yes because of the
recent podcast, twenty five million for Central State University, which
if you're from southwest Ohio you'll know why that's funny.

(01:18:51):
But twenty five million of it is for buying state land,
and that can be matched with twenty five million Pitman
Robertson Funds and they're about twelve thousand acres in the
southeast of Ohio, basically the fracking capital of Ohio, which
we'll get into. There's a number of public, public state

(01:19:13):
pieces that people have already hunt that they're adding acreage
to Richland Furnace, Shawnee Tar Hollow, Concole and Cooper Hollow,
and it's just going to broaden public access. The interesting
tidbit here is that they're prioritizing sustainable timber management, soil
and water preservation, and public recreation. Where it gets a

(01:19:36):
little weird is that this is where a lot of
fracking goes on, and so you have there's there's a
little bit of questions about are they just getting more
land to frack. It's unclear that that process will play
out over the future the coming years.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
But I called.

Speaker 6 (01:19:52):
I called one of my buddies who's down there in Ohio,
and I've hunted this area too, and worst case, I mean,
you hear stuff like fracking. Oh no, it's all just
this cloak and dagger or whatever. But we've hunted on
fracked land. You know, if you have a twelve thousand
acre fracking operation, you know they plunk down forty acre
little hubs and then you hunt the rest of it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
And so I'm kind of sitting here like, Okay, even
if it does end up going and getting fracked, at
least it's public that I can go hunt now. Yeah,
you know in.

Speaker 6 (01:20:21):
Egypt, Valley, Salt Fork, Jockey Hollow, those are all examples
of that that it's still good access. But keep your
eyes and that money.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Then you know, there's a royalty portion of it that
goes to purchasing more and where this original twenty five
million dollars came from is partly from these gas royalties,
and so it's just nuanced. But it is exciting that
a state that doesn't have a lot of public land
can get more of it. And it's gonna happen. Finally,
another great news story from the state levels Massachusetts modernizing

(01:20:52):
their hunting loss assholes, those massholes.

Speaker 6 (01:20:56):
The governor put forward a note to update outdated law,
outdated hunting laws and reduce the deer population, and she
says it's specifically in relation to the spread of Alpha gal.
These three, these three initiatives she's got is removing the
Sunday hunting band because they're between them and Maine. They're
the last two with Sunday hunting bands. Removing the permanent

(01:21:17):
disability requirement for crossbows so anyone can shoot a crossbow,
and then reducing the archery hunting setback from five hundred
feet which it is currently to two hundred and fifty.
The interesting tidbit here.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
I get very excited about number one. Yep, decreased enthusiasm
on number two. Real excited about number three. Totally agree.
Crossbows are a complicated issue. But yeah, doubles your Sunday
hunting ban. It cuts your weekends in half. So doubling
your opportunity is great. And the setback. At first, I

(01:21:50):
didn't really think that that was a big deal, but
when you throw the numbers to it and revo if
you can pull up that green and red map, if
you were to drop like let's say you have a
piece of woods and you drop a building in there,
and it's by statute you cannot hunt with archery tackle
within five hundred feet of it, you lose eighteen acres.
If that's reduced to two hundred and fifty feet, that

(01:22:11):
standoff you lose four and a half acres. And so
applied to a pretty suburban area where these where white
tail are generally doing well, and where there's a lot
of concern about tickborne illness as well as CWD transmission.
It has a significant impact. And so looking at that map,
all that green is what it currently This is a
township Norton. All that green is what's currently open to

(01:22:32):
hunting with a five hundred foot standoff on the right
is what it would be with a two hundred and
fifty foot standoff. Now it gets more complicated, there's local
rules and whatnot, but the base, this is the baseline. Yeah,
you never think of those I shouldn't say never. You
don't think of those standoffs as really reducing huntable ground.
But then you look at that map right there, and
it's like, it's shocking how much does And I'm the

(01:22:53):
math wizard. I would have thought five hundred feet two
hundred feet, I would have thought it would have been
fifty percent. It's the ones that being different. So if
you at five hundred feet, you lose eighteen acres, a
two hundred and fifty foot standoff you lose four and
a half acres.

Speaker 6 (01:23:08):
And so just applied to this township of Norton right now,
it's about nineteen thousand acres. The whole town off limits
at five hundred feet is thirteen thousand. Of those nineteen
thousand acres at two hundred and fifty, only nine thousand
is off limits, are about half.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
So your huntable acreage.

Speaker 6 (01:23:24):
At the five as it can't stands currently is five
six hundred acres. If you reduce that to two hundred
and fifty, it goes almost to ten thousand at nine thousand,
seven hundred, or fifty two percent of the area. What
an interesting way to increase access, especially at a place
where white tailor crushing it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Like I'd run the numbers with a one foot restricted area.
You have to give me some time on that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
How does this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Can't shoot within a foot exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
Is coming from the governor.

Speaker 6 (01:23:50):
So that's the interesting tidbit. She is a governor known
for anti gun legislation. She's also getting re elected this year,
and so a thought is that she's pandering to hunting
organization and hunters who are a swayable demographic traditionally by
giving some some throwing some bones to the archery hunt.

(01:24:11):
Take them bones, I know, man, I know, Or you'd
have your cake and eat it too.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
Take them bones and then don't vote for you if
you want. So, there's a lot of ways to play this.
The bills I passed the House, it's sitting with the Senate.
Their fate. They're trying to reconcile. But you know, just
follow it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:24:28):
Sportsman's Alliance has got a call to action. Check it
out on their website. Really good coverage there, and it's
just it's good stuff. You know, take take what you
can get. And finally, like Steve talked about, Oregon raised
their overnight lodging tax by one point for conservation. That's great,
that's great alternative funding mechanisms.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Did you see what gane Forte said to the people
in Oregon that came up with the hunting hunting ban legislation.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
He had message for them.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
He said, don't come to Montana.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
I keep wanting to do a if we had better
production capabilities and actors and stuff that worked here. I
wanted to do a skit series where that guy, you know,
that little moby looking dude, the vegan guy that pushed
for that he where the day after the election, he
goes out to ranches to inform them that they that
they have to wind down their operation it's I hate

(01:25:22):
to be the bear bad news, but ranching is now illegal.
Your boys are gonna need are gonna neither wrap it up.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
Maybe that cowboy hat.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
He'd only make it the one or two ray.

Speaker 6 (01:25:38):
So these are just generally good news stories coming from
the state level, especially when there's there's chicanery happening at
the federal level. So stuff to get excited about and
stuff that you guys can can really have an impact
on if it's if it's in your home state.

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
The the the funding, and I don't like when people
say alternate funding mechanism, I should going out for listeners. The
standard funding mechanism for wildlife at the state levels, hunting licenses,
tag stamps, fishing licenses like hunting licenses, fishing licenses, excise
taxes on sporting goods pay for your state level conservation.

(01:26:14):
When people say an alternate funding mechanism, sometimes what they're
getting at is this idea that we should ditch all
that stuff and have something different. I like to think
of these states that are doing supplemental funding mechanisms and
there's novel ways of doing it, and what happened where
you do a percent like a fraction of a percent

(01:26:38):
of state tax puts a state in a position where
it's being like doing great wildlife work and doing public
land acquisitions.

Speaker 6 (01:26:48):
Hell yeah, man, Yeah, it's like it basically puts an
extra dollar twenty five on your taxes per night and
when staying at like an Airbnb or hotel.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
Yeah, and most those are people that don't even live
in that state, so screw yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:26:59):
And it raises the thirty eight million bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Here's here's a good one from Utah. This is This
is an interesting one. This is this is another bit
of like this is a kind of public land going
public land. Okay. The information I'm gonna share with you's
taken from Utah's Department of Natural Resources website. So this
is in the Book Cliffs area. In the book Cliffs area,

(01:27:22):
they have this fifty thousand acre parcel of state owned land.
But it's in it's a it's part of the school
Trust land. Okay. Historically, if you go into the eastern
state three you have townships, so six thirty six square
mile townships, like you got counties, and the counties are
broken up in the townships. Each township is six miles

(01:27:43):
by six miles. Historically, you'd be like well, how are
we gonna pay for public schooling. Well, you'd say one
section out of each township, so one square mile out
of every thirty six square miles will be given to
the state to monetize in order to pay for public eduetion.
In the Western States you have a similar thing, but
it's not as rigid in terms of the township things.

(01:28:06):
But you have what we call school trust lands. In Utah,
they have this big chunk of school trust land, and
the school trust program works where it needs. They have
the option, they have the mandate to leverage their school
trust lands for purchase or for profit. Right, what can
you do to get the most money off them? But

(01:28:27):
they had this chunk where there's no roads. It's a
roadless piece of school trust land. And they realize the
best way to derive value from this fifty thousand acres
of roadless school trust land, the best way to derive
value would be to sell it and then take that
asset and invest it. And that's going to do more
than what other kind of other business you do, mining, logging,

(01:28:49):
whatever on that land. So this is a weird deal
of like the state moving money around. So here you
have the state school trust land holds fifty thousand acres.
The state legislature goes and creates a pool of money.
What was the what was the price? You set the
price here? I got hi fifty million bucks? Okay. The

(01:29:10):
state legislature goes and creates a pool of money, fifty
million dollars, so that they can go pay the other
state agency, the School's trust agency, the fifty million dollars
to then turn it into a state game area. And
they're even calling it. They're saying it'll remain a roadless

(01:29:31):
state game area. So it's a really novel way. It
was already public, it'll stay public, but now you've had
that the school trust fund gets its money. So basically,
the Utah taxpayer just paid fifty million bucks into its
own public school fund and what they got out of

(01:29:52):
it was for fifty thousand acres of protected habitat and
a really good wildlife area. There's a hook I didn't realize.
I read assummation to this in a lot of places.
The hook I didn't realize is that they are not
handing over mineral rights. The state is not handing off

(01:30:16):
its mineral rights to this piece of land. Trying to
find this grapher mentions this excuse, excuse the sloppiness. If
you guys in the in the press release on the
DNRS on site, says it's important to remember that trust lands,
that's capital TL. So the school Trust land thing will

(01:30:36):
retain all subsurface mineral rights and the access necessary to
develop those resources in the future if that option is
financially viable. So they've sold the land to the Utah taxpayers.
They now have this land. But the school Trust people

(01:30:58):
are saying, unless down the road we decide to industrialize
it and mine it till then it's yours. Great, it
might not happen. It's just an interesting little wrinkle. If
I was the state, I would go to the state
and say, can we revisit the mineral right bit of this?

(01:31:22):
Is this a deal killer for you? Like walk across
the hall to that office and be like, is it
a deal killer if we take the subsurface rights? Yeah?
But still it's you know, I still applaud the measure
because this is coming from a state where there is
which has a history of being not entirely friendly to

(01:31:44):
federally managed public land. So this is great. A deer
doesn't care if it's on state road wilderness area or
federal wilderness area. The deer doesn't care. He loves it
either way. It's great. The subsurface thing is odd. We'll
see if in some decades they realize that the place
is full of tungsten, and yeah, you know, the place
is full of tungsten, and all of a sudden they're like, hey,

(01:32:05):
you know, we've got to have an awkward conversation about
that land you bought from us. You keep shooting that
punk gun. They're gonna that's business. That was business. And
with that, ladies and Gentlemen's the news show. Thanks for
coming on, Jim half a Finger, thank you, thanks for
having me join next week. And this is the only
players for we can get news. It ain't fake. That's

(01:32:26):
our tagline, all right. I like it