January 30, 2023 • 41 mins
Chris is giving us his HOT TAKES on the Most Dramatic Headlines Ever. Lauren Zima adds fuel to the fire by joining in with quite the revelations! She recently discovered something in Chris' closet that he holds on to from his prior marriage. And, is there age difference causing problems in their relationship...
72 years of marriage is a long time! Actress Bonnie Bartlett is married to everyone's favorite teacher from Boy Meets World, Mr. Feeny! She has marriage advice you will never see coming. And, why her kids will not read her book!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and I heard
radio podcast. Hello everybody, and welcome to the most dramatic
podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison. I am so excited to
be back with you each week, and the more I've
gotten into doing this podcast, the more excited I get
every week. And I miss not talking to you, So
(00:23):
I look forward to our time together. And I want
to say thank you to everybody that we have run
into over the last two weeks. Elzi and I have
been traveling. We were at the much talked about now
Golf tournament in Orlando. I don't know if that that
tournament has ever had so much press because I think
thinking thinks in large part to Ben Higgins running into
(00:45):
Chris Lane wells Adams was there, Ben's wife Jessica, and
of course Sarah was there. L Z was there with me,
and we had a phenomenal time. But the best part
of it for me anyway, was running into all of you.
We ran into so many people while and around at
events or at the golf course and came up and
said hello, which we always love. But what I really
(01:07):
enjoyed personally was how many of you said you're listening
to the podcast, how many said it's touched you. You
were emotional. I I love it. I love all the notes.
I appreciate it so much. And it was wonderful to
see so many people. And then Elsie and I went
to New York caught a little Broadway which was spectacular,
and met even more people. But I was I'm wondering
(01:29):
if this happens to anybody else, You have these little
moments in life, they just kind of kick you in
the ass and and humble you a little bit and
put you in your place in a good way. Lauren
and I after Sunday, we're leaving Orlando and we were
at the airport. I was trying to catch that the
Cowboys forty game unfortunately, and Lauren was not watching the game.
(01:51):
But we were talking and chatting and we've been there
for a little bit and right as our food arrived
and this woman walks up. Now there's no reason really
for me to be cranky, but I was tired, sunburn,
probably a little dehydrated, been a long week, and I'm
just sitting there about to watch the Cowboy game. This
woman who had been sitting next to me came up
(02:12):
to me and at very first that that moment I
was I was thinking about being a little cranky, and
the first sentence she says to me is, Chris, I
didn't want to come up to you, but my mom
listened to your podcast and she said, you love when
people come up and say hello, and it immediately just
and put me in my place, put me in a
(02:33):
better mood. And we had an amazing conversation. I'm really
glad she came up, and I'm glad all of you
came up to us this week. Lauren and I had
a blast with everybody. Each week, Elz and I are
going to talk about the headlines, the stories that make
us talk, the things we're discussing in our own lives, well,
the headlines about relationships especially, and I love the name
(02:57):
that you came up with the most dramatic headlines of
the week with el Hi. Everybody, well, oh my gosh.
The first one I wanted to talk about Nikki Bella.
I don't know if you all have seen this, but
Nicky Bella star of w W E Married, got married
in August to Artem of Dancing with the Stars UM.
I used to interview both of them a lot, and
they're both so wonderful. But they get married and now
(03:17):
their wedding is airing in her special about her wedding
on E and it comes out that Nikki, we're a
couple of wedding dresses and that one of them was
from when she was engaged to actor John Cena. So
everybody was talking is talking about this because can you
wear a wedding dress from another marriage relationship when you're
(03:43):
marrying someone else, And I completely I think you can.
I support Nikki on this, but I was surprised how
fired up people were, and that makes me want to
ask you, what if I said to you, I'm gonna
dig out the old one, We're going to recycle, reuse,
and you know I'm going to throw it back on.
(04:04):
I think I'm gonna say, first of all, I'm in
Nicky Bella's camp on this. And by the way, Artom
didn't care. He also came out and like, this isn't
an issue. But I think the difference for us would
be you actually wore your wedding dress at your wedding
excellent point, as opposed to Nikki who just had this
dress that spoke to her that she loves so much
and she never got to wear it and she wants
(04:26):
to wear it for this special occasion. Um, I don't
know if I would have, if I would or will
care that much if you actually wanted to wear your
dress again, if you love it that much and it
makes you feel beautiful. But I I think if you've
never worn it. So in as far as Nikki goes,
I don't understand why people are fired up either this. Look,
(04:48):
you're gonna save ten fifty grand, however much these things
cost these days. Why not. I think it's a really
good headline because it says Nicky Bella wore her wedding
dress from John Cena and her wedding to artem But yeah,
when you dig a little deeper, so she had bought
the dress, she'd never worn it, which is the key.
Um gosh, I don't even know where my first wedding dresses.
(05:11):
That don't most people like. They vacuum seal it, put
it in a bag and then you just never touch
it again. I'm not going to save it when we
get married. I mean, I love you, but I think
I donate it. I think there's something beautiful. I mean,
oh my gosh. Sometimes you see women who are wearing
like their grandmother's wedding dress from the fifties, and it's
totally gorgeous. But I don't think i'll I don't feel
(05:34):
that attached to the stuff. To me, it's just I
would just get rid of it. I wouldn't want to
deal with storing it. Well, I don't know what you're
going to do. We actually haven't discussed this, but um,
for example, at Wells and Sarah's wedding, she had I
don't know, three, four or five dresses Nikki Bella talked
about having. This was one of several dresses that Nikki
wore as well. So is the dress even that big
(05:54):
of a thing anymore? I know this is probably a
celebrity deal where you wear multiple dresses. Oh interesting, as
opposed to that one wedding dress. So really a lot
of brides don't have just one dress anyway anymore. True, Well,
you're still the one you walk down the island, that's
the one, right. But I think you made such a
good point about you just said she felt beautiful in
(06:15):
and I think that hits the nail on the head
for me because at first you look at it and think, well,
this dress is attached to this past relationship but the
dress is really about the woman. I think it's about
you wanting to feel beautiful for the person that you love.
But it's about you feeling beautiful and so to me,
that moment people talk about the moment she said she
(06:37):
had cried in this stress. That's when you look in
the mirror and think, Okay, I feel like a bride.
I feel that this is the moment I want to
have on my wedding day that I've thought about. So
if she felt that in that moment about this dress,
I had to say it. But I think it's more
about you than it is about the guy, because again,
(06:58):
it's about you being the right person, but it's about
how you, how you've pictured looking for when you find
that right person. Can I tell everybody why this story
was personal to us, why it kind of hit home? Okay,
so um LZ. When we first moved in together, she
brought an ice bucket, this beautiful crystal ice bucket, but
(07:20):
it was monogrammed. You actually were excited about it? Yes,
I was excited because it said L and Cee l C.
I thought, wow, this is great Lauren and Chris Well.
Can I also say I love that you thought it
was great, because you could have thought that was so
weird moving in. I've already monogrammed you thought this is
(07:41):
so sweet. But it turns out Lauren's ex husband his
first name began with the letter C as well. So
just turns out those initials worked perfectly for both of us.
And so the ice bucket was from my first marriage. Yeah,
the ice bucket was from her first marriage. It was
a wedding gift to Lauren and her ex. But hey,
(08:03):
it can quickly transition into Lauren and Chris. So she
told me about this. I had no problem. It was
a beautiful ice bucket. It has our initials on it.
I believe in being environmentally friendly, and I did not
see the point and throwing that ice buck it away.
It speaks to your confidence in you in our relationship,
(08:24):
and I loved that it didn't bother Artem like you said,
Artem said, Artem said, I want you to be happy.
It shouldn't be a big deal if you're secure in
your relationship and where you're at. Um. I had a
friend of mine who told me that when she moved
in with her boyfriend, she made him get rid of
all the clothing that he'd worn with his ex. He
had to buy all new furniture, he had to redo
(08:46):
their house. She said, I think things are memories and
I am not moving into that environment. And she and
I talked about it for a while because it sounded
really extreme to me, as say, sounded expensive. What would
your reaction be if a woman had said that? Honestly
a bit of a red flag for me. Yeah, because
he goes back to what you're talking about, the confidence.
(09:07):
If I am with you and I love you, do
I need a new flannel shirt to prove it? You know? Look,
I get if you're walking around and it's odd that
you have so many pictures or keepsakes that remind you
of that other person. There are levels to this, but
I think to just hey, I need you to get
a new couch, knew everything we gotta paint. That's extreme.
(09:28):
That's a lot. To me, that's a lot. Okay, Well,
now we have to confess one other thing about when
we first started dating. Crap. What I had forgotten until
this very moment that when we first started dating, I
had a house, and I had one of those. It
was an older house, so it had like a front
sitting room that I never went in and you came
to pick me up and I wasn't ready yet. Shocker.
(09:50):
So I said, go just go chill, I'll be ready
in a minute. And you went in that room and
I come in to find you, and you go, huh,
you've still got your wedding photos framed in here. All
your setting pictures were still up. But speaks to your confidence.
It wasn't a big deal. No, I mean, I knew
you'd been married. I mean, look, I mean I am
definitely not going to be throwing stones in this glass house. No,
(10:12):
I mean married for quite some time. I have children.
So everybody brings baggage to a relationship. That's what makes
us who we are, and it's it's it's what got
us from here to there. And it's what I love
about you because you've grown from that. I've grown from
my relationships. So you can't have it both ways. Well,
and when my friends said get rid of everything, I thought,
(10:35):
now you're taking it to the point of your potentially
hurting the person you care about, right if you're telling
them get rid of your past, get rid of erase
your memories. I would never ask someone to erase their memories.
For me, that's part of what made them the person
they are. I don't think you can regret where you've been.
If you love where you are, you can't change your past.
If you like the person you are today, all those
(10:57):
things got us here. So I would never say get
rid of all this stuff whatever. Um, but I do
understand that some things you gotta You've got to talk
about it, right? Are some things a little too painful?
Is it? Hey? I don't know if I want you
to wear your wedding dress from the first person at
this marriage now, maybe everybody wouldn't have been okay with it.
(11:18):
And I actually think if Artem had said I don't
want you to do this, I think Nikki would have said, Okay,
no big deal. So let me ask you this, Elsie.
M hm. Is there a deal breaker? Is there one
thing you should not carry over from a prior relationship?
Can you think of anything? My first answer is trust issues? Right?
(11:43):
I love that That made you laugh. I'm being serious, Okay.
I was talking to another friend the other day. She's
going through a major marital issue. She has found out
her husband is having an affair, and she said to me,
how whether they stay together or not? She said, how
can I trust again and the analogy that I gave
(12:07):
her God. I mean that's tough, right because I've always
heard that phrase, once the mirror is broken, you can
put it back together, but you still see the cracks.
But I think you have to you have to trust again.
You have to give whether this person, whether her husband,
is deemed worthy of her trust again or not. First
of all, to me, it's all about effort. Are you
(12:29):
showing are you actively showing that you can change, that
you're sorry, that you're going to be better. But I said,
if you've got in a car accident, would you ever
drive again? Would you get behind the wheel? And I
think the answer is yes. And I especially think if
you're going if we're just talking about going into a
new relationship, you have to give that person your full
trust until they give you a reason not to. You
(12:50):
have to trust them and not carry over that past
issue because otherwise you're setting yourself up for failure. I
think it's a move on, but don't forget mm hmm,
you know, be vigilant, be smart. It's all about that communication.
But I agree it's you know, it's the old theory
(13:11):
if you fall off a horse, get a bike, because
you're not good at riding a horse. Now that's not
the saying. Um, we should do a new segment called
dad Jokes of the Week, the most dramatic. What would
you not carry over from a previous relationship? You know
it is something we just mentioned. Pictures would be weird
to me if you're like, I love this wedding picture
(13:34):
or I love this picture. We talked about women looking beautiful.
I look amazing in this wedding photo. Look, if you
want to cut out your ex husband, I'd be fine,
but I think it'd be weird if if if someone
who you love and started dating seriously had pictures and things,
mementos and things from their ex, well, I would Okay,
I'll add a caveat. But if you have kids, I
(13:56):
think I remember we were in the Great Lockdown. I
was going nuts, and I was cleaning out your entire
house because they had nothing else to do. And I
love to organize. Oh my gosh, I love organizing, and
I learned even more about you doing that. I I
learned that Chris Harrison, literally, at face value, is an
incredibly organized, neat, clean person. But if you open a
(14:18):
cabinet door, things come falling out. I mean I opened
one cabinet in your house and you just had empty
cardboard boxes in there, Like, what are we doing? You
never know when you need a box. Well, that's true.
You never know. You're not an adult until you've saved
boxes and chords. But one, you know, you had photos
from like your first marriage, from that time, and we
(14:38):
saved all that. I saved all that because I think
the kids are gonna want to see it, and that matters.
I still have them. And you know, again, as I
you just pointed out, I had kids and watch these
children grow up for seventeen years before we got divorced.
So yes, a lot of those memories and things happened together,
and I will keep those, like you said, to pass
them on, but I definitely don't have them on display.
(15:02):
You're not gonna walk around our house here and awesome. Yeah,
but even you you mean you had been freshly divorced,
it was. It's something that I think I would understand
if you had a problem with that, where you're like, hey,
can you write pictures are emotional emotional and they bring
up emotion right away, and they bring up emotion for
everybody else who walks in your house say, we have
(15:23):
a party and people are walking around like is that
Chris with his ex wife? Right? Of course, and it's
something that's on display, like you said. And we'll going
back to my friend who told the guy she was
moving in with to get rid of everything. Something she
said did stick with me and really made me even
think about myself. I think I came home and probably
just you know, did that thing where I start a
fight with you because I'm having a thought of an
(15:44):
emotion and I'm not expressing it well. But she said,
you know, things are memories. Items are memories, and I
do think there's some truth to that. And actually one
thing you and I had talked about, which is an
important sort of next part of a relationship is building
a home together. The importance of that. We love our
house in Austin so much because we picked out everything together.
(16:06):
We chose everything from the wallpaper to the chairs to
all of it, and so this feels like our place.
And there is an importance of stuff both and letting
it go and getting those new building that new world together,
even if it's that physical item world. Should I throw
away the ice bucket, I'll throw away the ice bucket.
We still have it. I thought it broke. No, no, no,
(16:27):
it didn't. It's you. That's a great it's a great
ice bucket, really thick crystal, like someone spent a lot
of money on it. You know. Let's move on. I
think it's time for the next headline. Okay. For Dallas
(16:50):
Cowboy fans, we wish we could erased the last several weeks. Um.
This is an interesting story and it's not about sports,
but it is about Dallas cow Boys quarterback Deck Prescott,
who was hugely popular. He's popular for the franchise. He
handles himself incredibly well as the captain of this ship,
(17:10):
and is that leader in the locker room, leader in
the press room, always does and says the right thing. Well,
Dak arguably had one of the worst seasons of his career.
Got bounced from the playoffs a couple of weeks ago,
lost to the San Francisco forty nine. I'm from Dallas.
My heart is in this. I'm a huge Dallas Cowboy fan.
A few days later, I see the headline Dak breaks
(17:33):
up with his girlfriend, and I'm thinking, God, what a
crappy week this guy has had. He played terrible, his
team lost, He's getting hammered, I mean hammered in the press,
even a little bit of shade thrown by his own
franchise for the first time. And then I see he
breaks up with his girlfriend. Really a terrible week he's
(17:55):
he's having. But then the next day this headline hits. Well,
all of a sudden, I am interested in sports. I
actually turned to you and said, did you see the
sideline about Dak Prescott. I mean, I don't know any athletes,
but I do love you and your Cowboys fans, so
I didn't know who that was. One day after the
news breaks that he and his longtime girlfriend of a
(18:16):
couple of years split, news comes out that he is
dating someone new. Twenty four hours later, and he is dating.
At twenty nine years old, Dak Prescott is dating an
l s U Jr. A twenty year old swimmer at
L s U. Dak years old just signed a hundred
(18:36):
and sixty million dollar contract I believe somewhere around those
numbers is now dating a twenty year old junior in college. Now,
the reason you and I were talking about this so
much is the age difference thing. Do you get asked
about this a lot? I mean, you're I'm not great
at malf I think you're seventeen years older than Meldre.
(18:57):
Wait how old are you? But yes, all age difference,
and so immediately our thought has always been age is
not a big deal. It's not a big difference. But
is it hypocritical for me to say there is a
point in time in life when it does matter. You
and I always talk about the difference of life places,
(19:20):
and I also think the age difference thing is very
person a person. Now, I don't know. Maybe this um
young woman is incredibly mature for her age. And by
the way, maybe Dak Prescott is incredibly immature for his age,
but he's not. I've seen him in the public eye.
He is a very mature man. Oh you are such
a cowboys. I am no, I've just I mean, I've
(19:41):
seen him talk, in the way he handles himself, the
way the team looks at him. He wasn't born yesterday. Well,
the reason this stuck out to us is because to me,
and again I don't know either of them, but I
think it's potentially a big problem when you're talking about
someone who's in their professional life dating someone who's still
in their college life. Now, I did want to ask
(20:02):
you if she's an l s U swimmer. I don't
know our college sports on the same level of professional sports.
This is totally different. And I'll tell you what he's
because he's the quarterback for the Alice Cowboys. Yes, one
of the most storied, richest franchises in the history of sports.
It's a big deal. And to be the quarterback for
the Dallas Cowboys, it's like being, you know, shortstop for
(20:25):
the Yankees. It's a big deal. You are front and center.
I don't know if that comparison helps me, but you
so what struck me and struck a chord with me?
And again I'm dealing with is this hypocritical? I have
a nineteen year old daughter. This woman that Dac is
dating is barely a year older than my daughter, who's
(20:47):
also in college at TCU, And I immediately thought, what
if Taylor was dating a twenty nine year old man,
especially such a prominent man. I that made my heart
skip a beat. I'm not gonna lie now. I'm just
going with my gut emotion of how I felt about this.
And I'm not trying to throw judgment on this because
I don't know these people that well. I'm not friends
with Dak. I don't know this swimmer, But I just
(21:10):
thought from my own perspective, that would scare the hell
out of me as a dad. If my daughter said, hey, Daddy,
I met this wonderful man. First of all, man, she's like, yeah,
he's twenty nine years old, he's a stockbroker, he's or whatever.
That that would give me pause. Well, again, it's such
a life place difference. And I don't think I realized
this when I was in my twenties, are in college.
(21:31):
But when you look back, I remember my mom telling you,
telling me there's so much change that happens in your twenties.
I mean, you go through so many major life phases
between being in college, then just graduating and adjusting, then
your mid twenties when you're really hitting your stride in
your career. Then you're late twenties when you're thinking should
I settle down? Now? You go through like four phases
of life in those ten years. And would you say,
(21:55):
I mean you're again, I think you're older than me.
Would you say, looking back that your twenties are a
pivotal time of change versus your thirties, forties, fifties, How
would you compare them well? And yes, those you don't
know what you don't know, like, for example, my son's
twenty one, he's a junior, my daughter's nineteen, she's a freshman.
You don't know what you don't know, but at the
(22:15):
time you think you do right. And this is where
it gets interesting of protecting your children and thinking of
this dynamic of twenty nine and and this woman who
was a teenager a year ago and their dating is.
She may feel like she has control of this situation,
may feel like she's fine, but does she know you know,
(22:37):
she just doesn't have those that life experience. And to
going back to your question, Yes, in your teens, your
late teens into your early twenties, you are growing and
learning so much and you are just getting these life experiences.
It's why we all date and break up and you
have heartbreak and someone cheats on you, and it's where
all a lot of those silly antics happen is in
(22:58):
those early formative years. And to jump right into something
that is so extreme on many levels, not just the age,
but to somebody who is so famous and world renowned,
it makes it even that much more interesting. And you
bring up the dad thing, and my child, Dak, actually
met this woman through the dad. The dad does something
(23:22):
in insurance or something he deals with the Dallas Cowboys,
and that's how they met. Oh, there's a lot to
unpack there. Yeah, there was like a post, an Instagram
post on the dad a while back about, you know,
kind of joking about he and Dak being best friends.
And so that is clearly how Dak met his daughter
and they have started dating. Now she's still in school,
so this isn't a day to day thing, so who
(23:42):
knows what it is. But I just found it very interesting. Obviously,
it hit a chord with me, and I know most
of you out there are parents as well, and just
thought we would have strong feelings about this. Well, I
look at our our age difference is bigger, right, But
you and I have talked about how if we'd met
at a different time, maybe we wouldn't be together. Timing
(24:03):
is important. If I was in my early twenties, I
would have been in a totally different life place and
would it have worked out. I don't know. I mean
we started dating when I was in my early thirties,
which is I'm well into my career. You know, we
both were established in our careers and that was different.
And I think that timing matters and life place matters
(24:26):
way more than the number of age. Life place matters. Yeah,
and by the way, I mean we're we lived in
l A for decades. There's very immature fifty year olds
in l A. There are some fifty some things I
wouldn't date in l A. Well, I find it interesting too.
Upon my divorce, I started dating, and I dated a
(24:46):
wide range of ages from older than me, too younger
than me, And I found you get to a certain
point again, this has to do with life place and experience.
What do you share, what do you have in common?
What conversations are you having on a very deep level?
With you and I we found that we had a
lot of commonality. We hit a lot of those buttons
(25:07):
together and checked off a lot of those boxes, which
is partly why we fell in love. As we've realized
we were in the same life place and UM could
go forward. But if you are dating someone that just
got out of their teenage years and is partying in college,
it's like, I don't know. I mean, I have conversations
with with my daughter and her roommates and her sorority sisters.
(25:30):
These aren't conversations I want to take much further than
just finding out how they're doing and hearing the stories.
So here's the question. If if Taylor came to you
tomorrow and said, God, I'm sweating now. I am dating
this guy. He's almost thirty, he's a we'll use your phrase,
he's a stockbroker, something like that, what do you say
(25:51):
to her? What do you say? I would have to
have a very long conversation, and I would want to
meet this man. A lot of it would have to
do with who this man is, what are his intentions?
And again they're just dating and just starting. So I
don't mean, what are your intentions of marrying my daughter?
But who are you? And what is it about my
daughter you find interesting at the age of twenty, you know, like,
(26:16):
what what is she offering that you find so fascinating
and where's the depth and the meaning behind this relationship?
So I would I would want to have that discussion
with her. What does she seeing him, what is she
getting from this? And who is he? And what's he
yell about? And that might be way overstepping my bounds.
As I say that, I realize it is that early
(26:37):
in a relationship, but it is to me a little extreme. Well,
we wish dak all the best. I wish I wish
the Dallas Cowboys the best. Okay, deep down and yeah,
I mean look, it's the judgment part is is difficult
in all this. But I just you and I found
(26:57):
it very interesting. And that was one of the most
dramatic headlines of the week. The next dramatic headline brings
me to our guest today. Bonnie Bartlett, year old actress,
just released a memoir Middle of the Rainbow, where she
made it known that her marriage to Bill Daniels, famous
(27:18):
actor in his own right was an open marriage for
many years. They have made it work. They've been married
for seventy two years. I have a lot of questions.
We're going to get answers from Bonnie Bartlett when we
come back. Welcome back to the most dramatic podcast ever.
(27:48):
I'm Chris Harrison. Time to bring on my guest today.
Bonnie Bartlett, year old actor, just released a memoir Middle
of the Rainbow. You may know here from so Hopes
Little House in the Prairie, saying elsewhere, most recently in
Golden Girls better called sal An amazing career, Emmy Award
(28:08):
winner married to Bill Daniels, who you guys might remember
as Mr Feenie on Boy Meets World. That's right, Mr
Feenie married to Bonnie Barlett for seventy two years. In
her memoir, she goes into her amazing career in Hollywood.
But one of the things I wanted to touch on,
and one of the things that struck me is her relationship,
(28:30):
her marriage and how in the early fifties they were married,
their marriage was open. What does that mean? How did
they stop that which they did, how did they claw
it back? And how do they still have that trust?
How do they keep going for this many decades? Bonnie,
(28:51):
thank you so much for your time. How are you
doing today. I'm fine, I'm a good shape. Congratulations on
the book Middle of the Rainbow, and thank you for
giving us such an intimate glimpse into your amazing life
in Hollywood. Um, this show in particular is about relationships
and about love, and this look inside your marriage over
(29:15):
the last seventy two years is just fascinating. So thank you.
You're welcome. I'm glad. I'm glad. I mentioned earlier. You're
married to Bill Daniels. Mr Feeney, please how John app
One of the great revelations from this book was that
early on you were eighteen years old when you got
(29:36):
married and I believe nineteen fifty one, and you guys
had an open relationship. We didn't think of it that. Okay,
that's what I was going to ask. You paid me
a picture of your relationship and and if you could
define it to us, what was it? Well, we kind
of grew up together. We're very young. Bill and I
(29:58):
were just great friends, great lovers, great We just loved
to be with each other all the time. And later
on when things got a little more difficult and we
could had to be a part a lot and stuff
like that. And we were in a culture in New
(30:19):
York when we went to New York, and a culture
that was very free and easy. It was before aids
aids changed that culture. But you mentioned that this is
the nineteen fifties, and Grant and I was not around
in the nineteen fifties. But my image is that was
a really buttoned up conservative time. We think of the
sixties as being really free and into the seventies, that's right,
(30:41):
and that's why because the fifties, you were you know,
you were still the Victorian thing was still creeping in.
We couldn't have sex and lest we got married, you know.
And then yes, then the sixties rolled in and it
was like while than Woolley, and you had to find
(31:01):
your way through it. And if you did, you you
were good. And when we were together we were fine.
It's just when we had to be separated or there
were times, yes, yes, very much, times when Bill was
just too difficult for me and I, uh, but he
was so funny, you know, as I would say, you know,
(31:24):
I just don't think I should be married to you.
I just still think it's always out come on you.
You're crazy about it both, so you wouldn't consider it
an open marriage. But both of you had affairs early on,
and and did you know about each other's affairs? Oh, yes, yes,
(31:45):
mostly mostly yes, of course. I didn't have a lot
of affairs. Bill had a lot, some dalliances on the road.
I experienced something that today women go through three and
four times before they get married. You know. Well, that's
what it sounds like. It sounds like y'all were very
good friends. You still had some growing up to do,
and it seems like you guys did that together exactly.
(32:08):
That's what we did together. And and and the book
will Will talks about that. I mean that, that's what
the book. That's part of what the book is about.
The book is really about the I've had a ninety
three years on this earth and the changes that have
happened during that time. It's a history, it's a it's
(32:29):
a learning thing, which is the way it was then.
And and we we took it. We didn't we we
didn't speak up. We didn't we we couldn't. If we
did speak up, we got pushed down. So things all
of women have made made it change. And the all
(32:51):
the old men can't do everything. That any man in
power I thought he could do anything, and they did
and we put up with it. Now that's not so.
So how did you guys make it work? How did
you and Bill? Because I know there was one final
affair that really drew that was later on, that was
(33:11):
very paid, that was very yes, that was a big
shot in the seventies. And that's when Bill made the
choice too let his career go. He knew he had
to make a living, but I mean he didn't. He
had been offered three shows in New York after seventeen
seventies Chicago, Bob fosse uh, And he said, no, I
(33:36):
want to go to California and I want I'll work
in film or whatever there is, but I want to
be have a house and I want to have uh
the kids there, and I want I want to just
do whatever. He didn't want to do television. He thought
he would be doing enough film. Turned out that television
(33:56):
was the best thing that ever happened to Bill. He
loved it, loved it. I'm just curious how you found
the trust again. Well, it took time. But you know,
he's a great father. He's a great he's very domestic.
He we we had suddenly we had weekends where we
could do things with the kids. Always in New York.
(34:18):
Every Christmas, everything, he had two shows. Other people were celebrating,
and Bill always had two shows to do. And you know,
it was okay, It's what he aimed for. But when
the kids came along, it wasn't good. It wasn't good anymore.
When did you share this story with your with your
kids or your friends? Did everybody find out when this
(34:39):
book came out? My children haven't read the book. Interesting
they're not interested. We were there, mother and father very
glad to be with us. We were very They saved
our lives, they saved our marriage. The boys because they
were so great. I was just curious if there was
ever a time when you would sit them down and
(35:00):
talk about as their adults. And No, I'm not a
person who says, now, let's let's talk about this. I'm not.
I'm just not that kind of person. Yeah, you guys
just kept plowing through, living your lives right, doing what
is what is what is. And I, for me, California
meant I got to work a lot, So I went
(35:22):
back to work. I had stopped working with when the
boys were a little I stopped because it was too hard.
But you know, commercials, a few little things. But when
I when we got to California and I had Bill
doing all kinds of things with boys, and he could
(35:44):
take them to school, and he could pick them up,
and he could do all of that stuff. I mean,
he was in heaven. And and because he was so happy,
I was happy and able to do to do the
things I wanted to do. You guys have been together
seventy two years, a lifetime together. A lot of the
listeners are married, we've been divorced. We we've been through
(36:07):
it all, and we talk a lot about relationships here.
Is there a takeaway from your seventy two years? Is
there a lesson that we should know about making it
work and sticking with it? I think every case is different.
Each case is different. If if you're living with somebody
(36:30):
who has a drug problem, if you're living with somebody
who's an alcoholic, like and they don't change, if the
person can change, if the problem is such that they
can change, which is what Bill. Finally, did you know
if you fall in love with somebody else, that's a problem.
Fortunately for us, we never got involved, right, You guys
(36:53):
never fell in love with anybody else. There. There were
those affairs, but you always came back to each other,
that's right. As I say, at one point, I thought,
oh god, I've got to have an easier life. It's
got to be better than this angry guy. Uh. But
there's nobody out there like Bill that I met. You
know that I would it. We're lucky. We're just lucky. Yeah,
(37:18):
we it worked out. I mean, we can't imagine not
being together. Let me put that away. We can't imagine
it and now we're old, we take care of each
other and it's great. Yeah, it was just you said
building trust took time. I'm just curious if there was
something in particular, because it sounds like y'a weren't great communicators.
(37:40):
How you were able to build that trust back? Well,
we were together all the time. We we we were
in the same room, the same house. I think it's
very hard to have a marriage where you're not together.
What's the point, right? There were some amazing anecdotes and
a memoir as well. You mentioned coming up around the
(38:03):
same time that Marilyn Monroe did well. Marilyn was a
big star and she to studied with Lee Strasburg, and
I was Lee's secretary and friend and so forth, and
so I kind of helped her out in class, and
she she always she was. She was a lovely girl.
(38:25):
We loved her. We all loved her. I saw her
a lot at the Strasburg's and I guess I saw
the best part of Marilyn Monroe. I don't know. I mean,
what she created was incredible, and she was an incredible comedian.
She wanted to do try to do theater, and Lee
encouraged her and maybe he shouldn't have because I, Oh,
(38:53):
she wanted to learn. She was such a student. She
wanted to learn, and she wanted to she was interested
in everything, and she had a very good brain. No education,
no background, no support, no support at all. Interesting as
a as a girl growing up terrible, terrible, So that's hard.
(39:15):
You've got to have some support somewhere. The book is
Middle of the Rainbow memoir by Bonnie Barlett. If there
is a takeaway from this book that you hope everyone
will read, what is that? What is the takeaway? What
is what is the lesson you hope we take away
from this? Well, as I say in the book, I
(39:37):
hope that I have left some footprints in the sand,
so that it's kind of a history of a life.
Ah a successful life, a celebration in a way of
the life and getting through life is all about solving problems.
(40:01):
And that's what this book is about. M beautiful and
is if you gave after seventy two years, gave us
one bit of advice for marriage and making it work,
what is it? You have to create your own guidelines,
You have to create I love that and I completely agree.
(40:26):
And speaking speaking of unique Bonny, you were that absolutely
unique and thanks thanks for sharing so much of your
life with us in this book. Again, it's the Middle
of the Rainbow, the memoir by Bonnie Bartlett, her life,
her times, her love and career. It is spectacular and
(40:47):
just thank you for being here today and opening up
with us. Truly appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you to
my guest, Bonnie Bartlett. Incredible story thinking of the times
that you grew up in, cut her teeth in this
business from the fifties, sixties, seventies and on um. Incredible
knowledge and it's always important, I think, to hear from
(41:09):
the past so we can learn how to live in
the present. So Bonnie Bartlett, thank you so much. LZ.
Thanks for being a part of this as well today
and thank you for listening. I can't wait to talk
to you again next week because we have a lot
more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and make sure
(41:30):
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
I'll talk to you next time.
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and I heard
radio podcast. Hello everybody, and welcome to the most dramatic
podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison. I am so excited to
be back with you each week, and the more I've
gotten into doing this podcast, the more excited I get
every week. And I miss not talking to you, So
(00:23):
I look forward to our time together. And I want
to say thank you to everybody that we have run
into over the last two weeks. Elzi and I have
been traveling. We were at the much talked about now
Golf tournament in Orlando. I don't know if that that
tournament has ever had so much press because I think
thinking thinks in large part to Ben Higgins running into
(00:45):
Chris Lane wells Adams was there, Ben's wife Jessica, and
of course Sarah was there. L Z was there with me,
and we had a phenomenal time. But the best part
of it for me anyway, was running into all of you.
We ran into so many people while and around at
events or at the golf course and came up and
said hello, which we always love. But what I really
(01:07):
enjoyed personally was how many of you said you're listening
to the podcast, how many said it's touched you. You
were emotional. I I love it. I love all the notes.
I appreciate it so much. And it was wonderful to
see so many people. And then Elsie and I went
to New York caught a little Broadway which was spectacular,
and met even more people. But I was I'm wondering
(01:29):
if this happens to anybody else, You have these little
moments in life, they just kind of kick you in
the ass and and humble you a little bit and
put you in your place in a good way. Lauren
and I after Sunday, we're leaving Orlando and we were
at the airport. I was trying to catch that the
Cowboys forty game unfortunately, and Lauren was not watching the game.
(01:51):
But we were talking and chatting and we've been there
for a little bit and right as our food arrived
and this woman walks up. Now there's no reason really
for me to be cranky, but I was tired, sunburn,
probably a little dehydrated, been a long week, and I'm
just sitting there about to watch the Cowboy game. This
woman who had been sitting next to me came up
(02:12):
to me and at very first that that moment I
was I was thinking about being a little cranky, and
the first sentence she says to me is, Chris, I
didn't want to come up to you, but my mom
listened to your podcast and she said, you love when
people come up and say hello, and it immediately just
and put me in my place, put me in a
(02:33):
better mood. And we had an amazing conversation. I'm really
glad she came up, and I'm glad all of you
came up to us this week. Lauren and I had
a blast with everybody. Each week, Elz and I are
going to talk about the headlines, the stories that make
us talk, the things we're discussing in our own lives, well,
the headlines about relationships especially, and I love the name
(02:57):
that you came up with the most dramatic headlines of
the week with el Hi. Everybody, well, oh my gosh.
The first one I wanted to talk about Nikki Bella.
I don't know if you all have seen this, but
Nicky Bella star of w W E Married, got married
in August to Artem of Dancing with the Stars UM.
I used to interview both of them a lot, and
they're both so wonderful. But they get married and now
(03:17):
their wedding is airing in her special about her wedding
on E and it comes out that Nikki, we're a
couple of wedding dresses and that one of them was
from when she was engaged to actor John Cena. So
everybody was talking is talking about this because can you
wear a wedding dress from another marriage relationship when you're
(03:43):
marrying someone else, And I completely I think you can.
I support Nikki on this, but I was surprised how
fired up people were, and that makes me want to
ask you, what if I said to you, I'm gonna
dig out the old one, We're going to recycle, reuse,
and you know I'm going to throw it back on.
(04:04):
I think I'm gonna say, first of all, I'm in
Nicky Bella's camp on this. And by the way, Artom
didn't care. He also came out and like, this isn't
an issue. But I think the difference for us would
be you actually wore your wedding dress at your wedding
excellent point, as opposed to Nikki who just had this
dress that spoke to her that she loves so much
and she never got to wear it and she wants
(04:26):
to wear it for this special occasion. Um, I don't
know if I would have, if I would or will
care that much if you actually wanted to wear your
dress again, if you love it that much and it
makes you feel beautiful. But I I think if you've
never worn it. So in as far as Nikki goes,
I don't understand why people are fired up either this. Look,
(04:48):
you're gonna save ten fifty grand, however much these things
cost these days. Why not. I think it's a really
good headline because it says Nicky Bella wore her wedding
dress from John Cena and her wedding to artem But yeah,
when you dig a little deeper, so she had bought
the dress, she'd never worn it, which is the key.
Um gosh, I don't even know where my first wedding dresses.
(05:11):
That don't most people like. They vacuum seal it, put
it in a bag and then you just never touch
it again. I'm not going to save it when we
get married. I mean, I love you, but I think
I donate it. I think there's something beautiful. I mean,
oh my gosh. Sometimes you see women who are wearing
like their grandmother's wedding dress from the fifties, and it's
totally gorgeous. But I don't think i'll I don't feel
(05:34):
that attached to the stuff. To me, it's just I
would just get rid of it. I wouldn't want to
deal with storing it. Well, I don't know what you're
going to do. We actually haven't discussed this, but um,
for example, at Wells and Sarah's wedding, she had I
don't know, three, four or five dresses Nikki Bella talked
about having. This was one of several dresses that Nikki
wore as well. So is the dress even that big
(05:54):
of a thing anymore? I know this is probably a
celebrity deal where you wear multiple dresses. Oh interesting, as
opposed to that one wedding dress. So really a lot
of brides don't have just one dress anyway anymore. True, Well,
you're still the one you walk down the island, that's
the one, right. But I think you made such a
good point about you just said she felt beautiful in
(06:15):
and I think that hits the nail on the head
for me because at first you look at it and think, well,
this dress is attached to this past relationship but the
dress is really about the woman. I think it's about
you wanting to feel beautiful for the person that you love.
But it's about you feeling beautiful and so to me,
that moment people talk about the moment she said she
(06:37):
had cried in this stress. That's when you look in
the mirror and think, Okay, I feel like a bride.
I feel that this is the moment I want to
have on my wedding day that I've thought about. So
if she felt that in that moment about this dress,
I had to say it. But I think it's more
about you than it is about the guy, because again,
(06:58):
it's about you being the right person, but it's about
how you, how you've pictured looking for when you find
that right person. Can I tell everybody why this story
was personal to us, why it kind of hit home? Okay,
so um LZ. When we first moved in together, she
brought an ice bucket, this beautiful crystal ice bucket, but
(07:20):
it was monogrammed. You actually were excited about it? Yes,
I was excited because it said L and Cee l C.
I thought, wow, this is great Lauren and Chris Well.
Can I also say I love that you thought it
was great, because you could have thought that was so
weird moving in. I've already monogrammed you thought this is
(07:41):
so sweet. But it turns out Lauren's ex husband his
first name began with the letter C as well. So
just turns out those initials worked perfectly for both of us.
And so the ice bucket was from my first marriage. Yeah,
the ice bucket was from her first marriage. It was
a wedding gift to Lauren and her ex. But hey,
(08:03):
it can quickly transition into Lauren and Chris. So she
told me about this. I had no problem. It was
a beautiful ice bucket. It has our initials on it.
I believe in being environmentally friendly, and I did not
see the point and throwing that ice buck it away.
It speaks to your confidence in you in our relationship,
(08:24):
and I loved that it didn't bother Artem like you said,
Artem said, Artem said, I want you to be happy.
It shouldn't be a big deal if you're secure in
your relationship and where you're at. Um. I had a
friend of mine who told me that when she moved
in with her boyfriend, she made him get rid of
all the clothing that he'd worn with his ex. He
had to buy all new furniture, he had to redo
(08:46):
their house. She said, I think things are memories and
I am not moving into that environment. And she and
I talked about it for a while because it sounded
really extreme to me, as say, sounded expensive. What would
your reaction be if a woman had said that? Honestly
a bit of a red flag for me. Yeah, because
he goes back to what you're talking about, the confidence.
(09:07):
If I am with you and I love you, do
I need a new flannel shirt to prove it? You know? Look,
I get if you're walking around and it's odd that
you have so many pictures or keepsakes that remind you
of that other person. There are levels to this, but
I think to just hey, I need you to get
a new couch, knew everything we gotta paint. That's extreme.
(09:28):
That's a lot. To me, that's a lot. Okay, Well,
now we have to confess one other thing about when
we first started dating. Crap. What I had forgotten until
this very moment that when we first started dating, I
had a house, and I had one of those. It
was an older house, so it had like a front
sitting room that I never went in and you came
to pick me up and I wasn't ready yet. Shocker.
(09:50):
So I said, go just go chill, I'll be ready
in a minute. And you went in that room and
I come in to find you, and you go, huh,
you've still got your wedding photos framed in here. All
your setting pictures were still up. But speaks to your confidence.
It wasn't a big deal. No, I mean, I knew
you'd been married. I mean, look, I mean I am
definitely not going to be throwing stones in this glass house. No,
(10:12):
I mean married for quite some time. I have children.
So everybody brings baggage to a relationship. That's what makes
us who we are, and it's it's it's what got
us from here to there. And it's what I love
about you because you've grown from that. I've grown from
my relationships. So you can't have it both ways. Well,
and when my friends said get rid of everything, I thought,
(10:35):
now you're taking it to the point of your potentially
hurting the person you care about, right if you're telling
them get rid of your past, get rid of erase
your memories. I would never ask someone to erase their memories.
For me, that's part of what made them the person
they are. I don't think you can regret where you've been.
If you love where you are, you can't change your past.
If you like the person you are today, all those
(10:57):
things got us here. So I would never say get
rid of all this stuff whatever. Um, but I do
understand that some things you gotta You've got to talk
about it, right? Are some things a little too painful?
Is it? Hey? I don't know if I want you
to wear your wedding dress from the first person at
this marriage now, maybe everybody wouldn't have been okay with it.
(11:18):
And I actually think if Artem had said I don't
want you to do this, I think Nikki would have said, Okay,
no big deal. So let me ask you this, Elsie.
M hm. Is there a deal breaker? Is there one
thing you should not carry over from a prior relationship?
Can you think of anything? My first answer is trust issues? Right?
(11:43):
I love that That made you laugh. I'm being serious, Okay.
I was talking to another friend the other day. She's
going through a major marital issue. She has found out
her husband is having an affair, and she said to me,
how whether they stay together or not? She said, how
can I trust again and the analogy that I gave
(12:07):
her God. I mean that's tough, right because I've always
heard that phrase, once the mirror is broken, you can
put it back together, but you still see the cracks.
But I think you have to you have to trust again.
You have to give whether this person, whether her husband,
is deemed worthy of her trust again or not. First
of all, to me, it's all about effort. Are you
(12:29):
showing are you actively showing that you can change, that
you're sorry, that you're going to be better. But I said,
if you've got in a car accident, would you ever
drive again? Would you get behind the wheel? And I
think the answer is yes. And I especially think if
you're going if we're just talking about going into a
new relationship, you have to give that person your full
trust until they give you a reason not to. You
(12:50):
have to trust them and not carry over that past
issue because otherwise you're setting yourself up for failure. I
think it's a move on, but don't forget mm hmm,
you know, be vigilant, be smart. It's all about that communication.
But I agree it's you know, it's the old theory
(13:11):
if you fall off a horse, get a bike, because
you're not good at riding a horse. Now that's not
the saying. Um, we should do a new segment called
dad Jokes of the Week, the most dramatic. What would
you not carry over from a previous relationship? You know
it is something we just mentioned. Pictures would be weird
to me if you're like, I love this wedding picture
(13:34):
or I love this picture. We talked about women looking beautiful.
I look amazing in this wedding photo. Look, if you
want to cut out your ex husband, I'd be fine,
but I think it'd be weird if if if someone
who you love and started dating seriously had pictures and things,
mementos and things from their ex, well, I would Okay,
I'll add a caveat. But if you have kids, I
(13:56):
think I remember we were in the Great Lockdown. I
was going nuts, and I was cleaning out your entire
house because they had nothing else to do. And I
love to organize. Oh my gosh, I love organizing, and
I learned even more about you doing that. I I
learned that Chris Harrison, literally, at face value, is an
incredibly organized, neat, clean person. But if you open a
(14:18):
cabinet door, things come falling out. I mean I opened
one cabinet in your house and you just had empty
cardboard boxes in there, Like, what are we doing? You
never know when you need a box. Well, that's true.
You never know. You're not an adult until you've saved
boxes and chords. But one, you know, you had photos
from like your first marriage, from that time, and we
(14:38):
saved all that. I saved all that because I think
the kids are gonna want to see it, and that matters.
I still have them. And you know, again, as I
you just pointed out, I had kids and watch these
children grow up for seventeen years before we got divorced.
So yes, a lot of those memories and things happened together,
and I will keep those, like you said, to pass
them on, but I definitely don't have them on display.
(15:02):
You're not gonna walk around our house here and awesome. Yeah,
but even you you mean you had been freshly divorced,
it was. It's something that I think I would understand
if you had a problem with that, where you're like, hey,
can you write pictures are emotional emotional and they bring
up emotion right away, and they bring up emotion for
everybody else who walks in your house say, we have
(15:23):
a party and people are walking around like is that
Chris with his ex wife? Right? Of course, and it's
something that's on display, like you said. And we'll going
back to my friend who told the guy she was
moving in with to get rid of everything. Something she
said did stick with me and really made me even
think about myself. I think I came home and probably
just you know, did that thing where I start a
fight with you because I'm having a thought of an
(15:44):
emotion and I'm not expressing it well. But she said,
you know, things are memories. Items are memories, and I
do think there's some truth to that. And actually one
thing you and I had talked about, which is an
important sort of next part of a relationship is building
a home together. The importance of that. We love our
house in Austin so much because we picked out everything together.
(16:06):
We chose everything from the wallpaper to the chairs to
all of it, and so this feels like our place.
And there is an importance of stuff both and letting
it go and getting those new building that new world together,
even if it's that physical item world. Should I throw
away the ice bucket, I'll throw away the ice bucket.
We still have it. I thought it broke. No, no, no,
(16:27):
it didn't. It's you. That's a great it's a great
ice bucket, really thick crystal, like someone spent a lot
of money on it. You know. Let's move on. I
think it's time for the next headline. Okay. For Dallas
(16:50):
Cowboy fans, we wish we could erased the last several weeks. Um.
This is an interesting story and it's not about sports,
but it is about Dallas cow Boys quarterback Deck Prescott,
who was hugely popular. He's popular for the franchise. He
handles himself incredibly well as the captain of this ship,
(17:10):
and is that leader in the locker room, leader in
the press room, always does and says the right thing. Well,
Dak arguably had one of the worst seasons of his career.
Got bounced from the playoffs a couple of weeks ago,
lost to the San Francisco forty nine. I'm from Dallas.
My heart is in this. I'm a huge Dallas Cowboy fan.
A few days later, I see the headline Dak breaks
(17:33):
up with his girlfriend, and I'm thinking, God, what a
crappy week this guy has had. He played terrible, his
team lost, He's getting hammered, I mean hammered in the press,
even a little bit of shade thrown by his own
franchise for the first time. And then I see he
breaks up with his girlfriend. Really a terrible week he's
(17:55):
he's having. But then the next day this headline hits. Well,
all of a sudden, I am interested in sports. I
actually turned to you and said, did you see the
sideline about Dak Prescott. I mean, I don't know any athletes,
but I do love you and your Cowboys fans, so
I didn't know who that was. One day after the
news breaks that he and his longtime girlfriend of a
(18:16):
couple of years split, news comes out that he is
dating someone new. Twenty four hours later, and he is dating.
At twenty nine years old, Dak Prescott is dating an
l s U Jr. A twenty year old swimmer at
L s U. Dak years old just signed a hundred
(18:36):
and sixty million dollar contract I believe somewhere around those
numbers is now dating a twenty year old junior in college. Now,
the reason you and I were talking about this so
much is the age difference thing. Do you get asked
about this a lot? I mean, you're I'm not great
at malf I think you're seventeen years older than Meldre.
(18:57):
Wait how old are you? But yes, all age difference,
and so immediately our thought has always been age is
not a big deal. It's not a big difference. But
is it hypocritical for me to say there is a
point in time in life when it does matter. You
and I always talk about the difference of life places,
(19:20):
and I also think the age difference thing is very
person a person. Now, I don't know. Maybe this um
young woman is incredibly mature for her age. And by
the way, maybe Dak Prescott is incredibly immature for his age,
but he's not. I've seen him in the public eye.
He is a very mature man. Oh you are such
a cowboys. I am no, I've just I mean, I've
(19:41):
seen him talk, in the way he handles himself, the
way the team looks at him. He wasn't born yesterday. Well,
the reason this stuck out to us is because to me,
and again I don't know either of them, but I
think it's potentially a big problem when you're talking about
someone who's in their professional life dating someone who's still
in their college life. Now, I did want to ask
(20:02):
you if she's an l s U swimmer. I don't
know our college sports on the same level of professional sports.
This is totally different. And I'll tell you what he's
because he's the quarterback for the Alice Cowboys. Yes, one
of the most storied, richest franchises in the history of sports.
It's a big deal. And to be the quarterback for
the Dallas Cowboys, it's like being, you know, shortstop for
(20:25):
the Yankees. It's a big deal. You are front and center.
I don't know if that comparison helps me, but you
so what struck me and struck a chord with me?
And again I'm dealing with is this hypocritical? I have
a nineteen year old daughter. This woman that Dac is
dating is barely a year older than my daughter, who's
(20:47):
also in college at TCU, And I immediately thought, what
if Taylor was dating a twenty nine year old man,
especially such a prominent man. I that made my heart
skip a beat. I'm not gonna lie now. I'm just
going with my gut emotion of how I felt about this.
And I'm not trying to throw judgment on this because
I don't know these people that well. I'm not friends
with Dak. I don't know this swimmer, But I just
(21:10):
thought from my own perspective, that would scare the hell
out of me as a dad. If my daughter said, hey, Daddy,
I met this wonderful man. First of all, man, she's like, yeah,
he's twenty nine years old, he's a stockbroker, he's or whatever.
That that would give me pause. Well, again, it's such
a life place difference. And I don't think I realized
this when I was in my twenties, are in college.
(21:31):
But when you look back, I remember my mom telling you,
telling me there's so much change that happens in your twenties.
I mean, you go through so many major life phases
between being in college, then just graduating and adjusting, then
your mid twenties when you're really hitting your stride in
your career. Then you're late twenties when you're thinking should
I settle down? Now? You go through like four phases
of life in those ten years. And would you say,
(21:55):
I mean you're again, I think you're older than me.
Would you say, looking back that your twenties are a
pivotal time of change versus your thirties, forties, fifties, How
would you compare them well? And yes, those you don't
know what you don't know, like, for example, my son's
twenty one, he's a junior, my daughter's nineteen, she's a freshman.
You don't know what you don't know, but at the
(22:15):
time you think you do right. And this is where
it gets interesting of protecting your children and thinking of
this dynamic of twenty nine and and this woman who
was a teenager a year ago and their dating is.
She may feel like she has control of this situation,
may feel like she's fine, but does she know you know,
(22:37):
she just doesn't have those that life experience. And to
going back to your question, Yes, in your teens, your
late teens into your early twenties, you are growing and
learning so much and you are just getting these life experiences.
It's why we all date and break up and you
have heartbreak and someone cheats on you, and it's where
all a lot of those silly antics happen is in
(22:58):
those early formative years. And to jump right into something
that is so extreme on many levels, not just the age,
but to somebody who is so famous and world renowned,
it makes it even that much more interesting. And you
bring up the dad thing, and my child, Dak, actually
met this woman through the dad. The dad does something
(23:22):
in insurance or something he deals with the Dallas Cowboys,
and that's how they met. Oh, there's a lot to
unpack there. Yeah, there was like a post, an Instagram
post on the dad a while back about, you know,
kind of joking about he and Dak being best friends.
And so that is clearly how Dak met his daughter
and they have started dating. Now she's still in school,
so this isn't a day to day thing, so who
(23:42):
knows what it is. But I just found it very interesting. Obviously,
it hit a chord with me, and I know most
of you out there are parents as well, and just
thought we would have strong feelings about this. Well, I
look at our our age difference is bigger, right, But
you and I have talked about how if we'd met
at a different time, maybe we wouldn't be together. Timing
(24:03):
is important. If I was in my early twenties, I
would have been in a totally different life place and
would it have worked out. I don't know. I mean
we started dating when I was in my early thirties,
which is I'm well into my career. You know, we
both were established in our careers and that was different.
And I think that timing matters and life place matters
(24:26):
way more than the number of age. Life place matters. Yeah,
and by the way, I mean we're we lived in
l A for decades. There's very immature fifty year olds
in l A. There are some fifty some things I
wouldn't date in l A. Well, I find it interesting too.
Upon my divorce, I started dating, and I dated a
(24:46):
wide range of ages from older than me, too younger
than me, And I found you get to a certain
point again, this has to do with life place and experience.
What do you share, what do you have in common?
What conversations are you having on a very deep level?
With you and I we found that we had a
lot of commonality. We hit a lot of those buttons
(25:07):
together and checked off a lot of those boxes, which
is partly why we fell in love. As we've realized
we were in the same life place and UM could
go forward. But if you are dating someone that just
got out of their teenage years and is partying in college,
it's like, I don't know. I mean, I have conversations
with with my daughter and her roommates and her sorority sisters.
(25:30):
These aren't conversations I want to take much further than
just finding out how they're doing and hearing the stories.
So here's the question. If if Taylor came to you
tomorrow and said, God, I'm sweating now. I am dating
this guy. He's almost thirty, he's a we'll use your phrase,
he's a stockbroker, something like that, what do you say
(25:51):
to her? What do you say? I would have to
have a very long conversation, and I would want to
meet this man. A lot of it would have to
do with who this man is, what are his intentions?
And again they're just dating and just starting. So I
don't mean, what are your intentions of marrying my daughter?
But who are you? And what is it about my
daughter you find interesting at the age of twenty, you know, like,
(26:16):
what what is she offering that you find so fascinating
and where's the depth and the meaning behind this relationship?
So I would I would want to have that discussion
with her. What does she seeing him, what is she
getting from this? And who is he? And what's he
yell about? And that might be way overstepping my bounds.
As I say that, I realize it is that early
(26:37):
in a relationship, but it is to me a little extreme. Well,
we wish dak all the best. I wish I wish
the Dallas Cowboys the best. Okay, deep down and yeah,
I mean look, it's the judgment part is is difficult
in all this. But I just you and I found
(26:57):
it very interesting. And that was one of the most
dramatic headlines of the week. The next dramatic headline brings
me to our guest today. Bonnie Bartlett, year old actress,
just released a memoir Middle of the Rainbow, where she
made it known that her marriage to Bill Daniels, famous
(27:18):
actor in his own right was an open marriage for
many years. They have made it work. They've been married
for seventy two years. I have a lot of questions.
We're going to get answers from Bonnie Bartlett when we
come back. Welcome back to the most dramatic podcast ever.
(27:48):
I'm Chris Harrison. Time to bring on my guest today.
Bonnie Bartlett, year old actor, just released a memoir Middle
of the Rainbow. You may know here from so Hopes
Little House in the Prairie, saying elsewhere, most recently in
Golden Girls better called sal An amazing career, Emmy Award
(28:08):
winner married to Bill Daniels, who you guys might remember
as Mr Feenie on Boy Meets World. That's right, Mr
Feenie married to Bonnie Barlett for seventy two years. In
her memoir, she goes into her amazing career in Hollywood.
But one of the things I wanted to touch on,
and one of the things that struck me is her relationship,
(28:30):
her marriage and how in the early fifties they were married,
their marriage was open. What does that mean? How did
they stop that which they did, how did they claw
it back? And how do they still have that trust?
How do they keep going for this many decades? Bonnie,
(28:51):
thank you so much for your time. How are you
doing today. I'm fine, I'm a good shape. Congratulations on
the book Middle of the Rainbow, and thank you for
giving us such an intimate glimpse into your amazing life
in Hollywood. Um, this show in particular is about relationships
and about love, and this look inside your marriage over
(29:15):
the last seventy two years is just fascinating. So thank you.
You're welcome. I'm glad. I'm glad. I mentioned earlier. You're
married to Bill Daniels. Mr Feeney, please how John app
One of the great revelations from this book was that
early on you were eighteen years old when you got
(29:36):
married and I believe nineteen fifty one, and you guys
had an open relationship. We didn't think of it that. Okay,
that's what I was going to ask. You paid me
a picture of your relationship and and if you could
define it to us, what was it? Well, we kind
of grew up together. We're very young. Bill and I
(29:58):
were just great friends, great lovers, great We just loved
to be with each other all the time. And later
on when things got a little more difficult and we
could had to be a part a lot and stuff
like that. And we were in a culture in New
(30:19):
York when we went to New York, and a culture
that was very free and easy. It was before aids
aids changed that culture. But you mentioned that this is
the nineteen fifties, and Grant and I was not around
in the nineteen fifties. But my image is that was
a really buttoned up conservative time. We think of the
sixties as being really free and into the seventies, that's right,
(30:41):
and that's why because the fifties, you were you know,
you were still the Victorian thing was still creeping in.
We couldn't have sex and lest we got married, you know.
And then yes, then the sixties rolled in and it
was like while than Woolley, and you had to find
(31:01):
your way through it. And if you did, you you
were good. And when we were together we were fine.
It's just when we had to be separated or there
were times, yes, yes, very much, times when Bill was
just too difficult for me and I, uh, but he
was so funny, you know, as I would say, you know,
(31:24):
I just don't think I should be married to you.
I just still think it's always out come on you.
You're crazy about it both, so you wouldn't consider it
an open marriage. But both of you had affairs early on,
and and did you know about each other's affairs? Oh, yes, yes,
(31:45):
mostly mostly yes, of course. I didn't have a lot
of affairs. Bill had a lot, some dalliances on the road.
I experienced something that today women go through three and
four times before they get married. You know. Well, that's
what it sounds like. It sounds like y'all were very
good friends. You still had some growing up to do,
and it seems like you guys did that together exactly.
(32:08):
That's what we did together. And and and the book
will Will talks about that. I mean that, that's what
the book. That's part of what the book is about.
The book is really about the I've had a ninety
three years on this earth and the changes that have
happened during that time. It's a history, it's a it's
(32:29):
a learning thing, which is the way it was then.
And and we we took it. We didn't we we
didn't speak up. We didn't we we couldn't. If we
did speak up, we got pushed down. So things all
of women have made made it change. And the all
(32:51):
the old men can't do everything. That any man in
power I thought he could do anything, and they did
and we put up with it. Now that's not so.
So how did you guys make it work? How did
you and Bill? Because I know there was one final
affair that really drew that was later on, that was
(33:11):
very paid, that was very yes, that was a big
shot in the seventies. And that's when Bill made the
choice too let his career go. He knew he had
to make a living, but I mean he didn't. He
had been offered three shows in New York after seventeen
seventies Chicago, Bob fosse uh, And he said, no, I
(33:36):
want to go to California and I want I'll work
in film or whatever there is, but I want to
be have a house and I want to have uh
the kids there, and I want I want to just
do whatever. He didn't want to do television. He thought
he would be doing enough film. Turned out that television
(33:56):
was the best thing that ever happened to Bill. He
loved it, loved it. I'm just curious how you found
the trust again. Well, it took time. But you know,
he's a great father. He's a great he's very domestic.
He we we had suddenly we had weekends where we
could do things with the kids. Always in New York.
(34:18):
Every Christmas, everything, he had two shows. Other people were celebrating,
and Bill always had two shows to do. And you know,
it was okay, It's what he aimed for. But when
the kids came along, it wasn't good. It wasn't good anymore.
When did you share this story with your with your
kids or your friends? Did everybody find out when this
(34:39):
book came out? My children haven't read the book. Interesting
they're not interested. We were there, mother and father very
glad to be with us. We were very They saved
our lives, they saved our marriage. The boys because they
were so great. I was just curious if there was
ever a time when you would sit them down and
(35:00):
talk about as their adults. And No, I'm not a
person who says, now, let's let's talk about this. I'm not.
I'm just not that kind of person. Yeah, you guys
just kept plowing through, living your lives right, doing what
is what is what is. And I, for me, California
meant I got to work a lot, So I went
(35:22):
back to work. I had stopped working with when the
boys were a little I stopped because it was too hard.
But you know, commercials, a few little things. But when
I when we got to California and I had Bill
doing all kinds of things with boys, and he could
(35:44):
take them to school, and he could pick them up,
and he could do all of that stuff. I mean,
he was in heaven. And and because he was so happy,
I was happy and able to do to do the
things I wanted to do. You guys have been together
seventy two years, a lifetime together. A lot of the
listeners are married, we've been divorced. We we've been through
(36:07):
it all, and we talk a lot about relationships here.
Is there a takeaway from your seventy two years? Is
there a lesson that we should know about making it
work and sticking with it? I think every case is different.
Each case is different. If if you're living with somebody
(36:30):
who has a drug problem, if you're living with somebody
who's an alcoholic, like and they don't change, if the
person can change, if the problem is such that they
can change, which is what Bill. Finally, did you know
if you fall in love with somebody else, that's a problem.
Fortunately for us, we never got involved, right, You guys
(36:53):
never fell in love with anybody else. There. There were
those affairs, but you always came back to each other,
that's right. As I say, at one point, I thought,
oh god, I've got to have an easier life. It's
got to be better than this angry guy. Uh. But
there's nobody out there like Bill that I met. You
know that I would it. We're lucky. We're just lucky. Yeah,
(37:18):
we it worked out. I mean, we can't imagine not
being together. Let me put that away. We can't imagine
it and now we're old, we take care of each
other and it's great. Yeah, it was just you said
building trust took time. I'm just curious if there was
something in particular, because it sounds like y'a weren't great communicators.
(37:40):
How you were able to build that trust back? Well,
we were together all the time. We we we were
in the same room, the same house. I think it's
very hard to have a marriage where you're not together.
What's the point, right? There were some amazing anecdotes and
a memoir as well. You mentioned coming up around the
(38:03):
same time that Marilyn Monroe did well. Marilyn was a
big star and she to studied with Lee Strasburg, and
I was Lee's secretary and friend and so forth, and
so I kind of helped her out in class, and
she she always she was. She was a lovely girl.
(38:25):
We loved her. We all loved her. I saw her
a lot at the Strasburg's and I guess I saw
the best part of Marilyn Monroe. I don't know. I mean,
what she created was incredible, and she was an incredible comedian.
She wanted to do try to do theater, and Lee
encouraged her and maybe he shouldn't have because I, Oh,
(38:53):
she wanted to learn. She was such a student. She
wanted to learn, and she wanted to she was interested
in everything, and she had a very good brain. No education,
no background, no support, no support at all. Interesting as
a as a girl growing up terrible, terrible, So that's hard.
(39:15):
You've got to have some support somewhere. The book is
Middle of the Rainbow memoir by Bonnie Barlett. If there
is a takeaway from this book that you hope everyone
will read, what is that? What is the takeaway? What
is what is the lesson you hope we take away
from this? Well, as I say in the book, I
(39:37):
hope that I have left some footprints in the sand,
so that it's kind of a history of a life.
Ah a successful life, a celebration in a way of
the life and getting through life is all about solving problems.
(40:01):
And that's what this book is about. M beautiful and
is if you gave after seventy two years, gave us
one bit of advice for marriage and making it work,
what is it? You have to create your own guidelines,
You have to create I love that and I completely agree.
(40:26):
And speaking speaking of unique Bonny, you were that absolutely
unique and thanks thanks for sharing so much of your
life with us in this book. Again, it's the Middle
of the Rainbow, the memoir by Bonnie Bartlett, her life,
her times, her love and career. It is spectacular and
(40:47):
just thank you for being here today and opening up
with us. Truly appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you to
my guest, Bonnie Bartlett. Incredible story thinking of the times
that you grew up in, cut her teeth in this
business from the fifties, sixties, seventies and on um. Incredible
knowledge and it's always important, I think, to hear from
(41:09):
the past so we can learn how to live in
the present. So Bonnie Bartlett, thank you so much. LZ.
Thanks for being a part of this as well today
and thank you for listening. I can't wait to talk
to you again next week because we have a lot
more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and make sure
(41:30):
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
I'll talk to you next time.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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