June 26, 2026 • 34 mins
In this mini, Open Mike Eagle and Cousin Jake unpack the new Thundercat episode of The Questlove Show and the wider universe surrounding it—from Los Angeles' borderless music scenes to the mentors and misfits who shaped them.
Inspired by Thundercat's custom mask medallion and reflections on MF DOOM, Mike recalls collaborating with the late MC/producer, reflects on processing Daniel Dumile's passing through song ("For Doom"), and shares memories of appearing on television alongside Thundercat and Flying Lotus. Mike and Jake also explore the rewards and risks of artistic reinvention, what it meant to connect with Hip-Hop beyond commercial radio and video shows, and how educator and musician Reggie Andrews quietly influenced generations of artists.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Show is a production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Open Mic. Man, How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Man? I'm showing man keeping these plates spinning as usual?
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I like that.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I never added to my repertoire, but I'm spinning a
lot of plates myself.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
That's what we do these days. That's what we do
is people who work in creative industries, you very rarely
get to just focus on one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, and it's perfect because you know, it's funny. We're
talking about Thundercat on this mini episode of The Questlove
Show and his new album is called Distracted, And you know,
how do you handle distractions?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Oh? Man, I'd like distract myself from work with like
other work. Like I tend to have, you know, two
or three very big things, any constant attention, and then
a bunch of little stuff and admin it pops throughout
the day and it's like sometimes my treats to myself.
It's just the work that I want to do first,
(01:11):
the work I have to do.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's well said.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, let me ask you this then, like what in
your repertoire if you can say, like, what is your
favorite work to do outside of I'm gonna say, you know,
recording and making music your your impetus hum.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So, my favorite work to do is not what pays
me a lot, and I think that's typically how the
correlation goes. My favorite thing to do is technically work,
is making beats. I'm honestly just making a piece of
art for myself that's not attached to any expectation, and
it feels a little more creatively fulfilling because of that.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
How long into your vocal career have you been making beats.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I've been making beats the whole time.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Whole time.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Wow, I started making beats well before I started recording.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I did not know that. Okay, wow, you came in
on the production tip.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I mean when I say I was making beats, very
few of them were worth hearing about other people. And
even to this day, the vast majority of my beats
nobody hears. And it's because I am I have access
to so many really great producers that you know. I
don't try to force the issue on my stuff, because
(02:23):
you know, I don't think my stuff is quite that good.
But like I said, oftentimes it's stuff that I hear
in my head that I want to hear, and it
makes me feel good for having done it, even if
it's not gonna be my next song.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, well, I have to imagine too for somebody
that loves all music as much.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
As you seem to. I mean, you and I are
still good to know each other.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
But like I always thought, like in my rapper fantasy
camp or and my musician fantasy camp, one of the
best things would be like picking beats from other people
like that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Because yeah, I mean, you know what, this is the thing.
It is fun. But what I have found because I
have been doing some group stuff with my group previous
industries with video David Steel Rift, and the act of
picking beats with other people is very different than the
(03:15):
act of meat picking beats by myself. And so in
the fantasy camp situation, I'm like, oh, that could be fun.
It could also be a little tense, depending on what
people's tastes are.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, my best like musical friend, my best friend that
I can talk week to week about new music with.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We always laugh at the fact that a.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
New album will release and it could be in any
sub sector of genre, but especially in hip hop, and
we're always picking different favorite sections of it. And so
that's funny. I can only imagine when you have a band.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Made a groupmate that that creates I won't say acrimony,
but dissidence, you.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Know, yeah, yeah, it's it's just really interesting how something
can be a complete, you know, absolute smash for one
person and another person is just like I hate this,
you know, it's this is really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And since we last spoke too, and when this comes out,
you know, you have new music on the way, a
new single out which I truly dig. So I appreciate
that everyone who's listening to this, And you know, I
get this sense from reading the comments. So many people
are very well versed and open mic Eagle, but let
this be a reminder to do your dsp Googles and
check it out.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh for real? Yeah, I mean, I think, especially when
it comes to my podcasting exploits, my music is often
not front and center. So I certainly couldn't blame anybody
for not being aware if this is how they came
to me, because I'm typically not talking about my stuff.
But yeah, there's a lot of legacy, a lot of catalogs,
so if people are interested, there's a lot for them
(04:50):
to dig into.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
So, you know, I live on the East Coast. But
one of the things that fascinates me about the LA
music community period, especially of the last twenty five years,
it's just that, you know, walls don't seem to exist,
like so many folks have worked together, have shared studio
space together, done all these different things, and you know,
you and I are here. It kind of as a
supplement to the recent Thundercat episode of the Questlove Show,
(05:15):
and I happened to be there for the taping and
we're running it with our kind of slate, which is
something that started years ago with Quest Love Supreme of
Black Music Month. And you know, I'm curious being that
he's an LA guy and you've been in LA. I mean,
damn near thirty years. You shared with me recently. Is
there a relationship? Have you guys shared air? Is there
(05:37):
like you and Thundercat? Is there anything you know in
that dynamic?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well twenty years when I said.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You didn't move there, I got you.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, me and him have been in
a lot of rooms together. We famously, in my world,
performed together once on Hannibal Bursts television show. I was
sort of making my television performance debut and it was
in collaboration with Thundercat and Flying Lotus when I performed
(06:10):
on that show, and we didn't know each other super
well then, but we got to know each other quite
a bit after, and it run into each other quite
a few times since we have a lot of shared interests.
When he took that deep breath and started talking about
comic books, I was I was right there with him.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And him in the room.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I thought of, youmic because that was about I think
we Yeah, we did. We taped that episode in April
about fresh off of coming into LA the first time
you and I were in the room together and hung
out with you, Amir, Brittany Nick, the rest of the gang,
and you know, I got a sense of listening to
you talking about comic books and wrestling.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So when I watched his take a deep breath.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And then just kind of micro machine man yes through it,
I thought of because that's a passion I don't have.
I've actually never owned or read a comic book in
my life.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You've never read It's really interesting. So the only reason
that's really surprising is because we're around the same age,
and when we were young, there just wasn't a whole
bunch of stuff to do, so I'm amazed that you
never found yourself. Yeah, comic book was your only option.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I grew up in a household that didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
It always sounds like a religious thing, but like my
dad would never like watch anything science fiction, with like
one exception like the mad Max Road Warrior cannon. But
like like I didn't see Star Wars. I haven't still
not seen it the whole way through, like.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I am now okay, okay, yeah, and so car was
part of that.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The funny thing is is like I watched the Robert
Crumb movie back in the day, and I watched I
remember when American Splendor came out, and I was like,
Harvey Peak, like this looks like a comic.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I can get behind, like indie comics.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah yeah, but even still all these years later, I'm
sure promo wise, like people have sent me, like when
Czar Face or somebody would do like an item and
I'd said it, aid, I'd give it to somebody would
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
But yeah, man, I still got my comic book Virginity
and tact.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's what's up, man, Uh you know that's that's I'm like,
On one hand, Oh, it'd be a nice thing to
introduce you to. On the other hand, it's like, you know,
let him cook. Yeah, you're like and you're not missing
that much, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I mean I have personality.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And the funny thing is is like as a kid,
I think the other alternative was like, in terms of
tangible media, it was like baseball cards. Yeah yeah, you know,
not not in a collector way, but I just loved
looking through them, learning the status.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Same here since that, like I have I have a
collection of comic book trading cards from that era. But
in that era, it was all trading cards. It was basketball, football, baseball, everything,
and the same experience you discussed of just reading through
(08:57):
and trying to understand the stats and all of that.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I think of every time my mom, you know, must
have handed me a five dollar bill to try to
like be a cool.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Mom or like she knew that, Like I had waited
in the car for three or four hours, and.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I wish I wish I had now at this age,
Like it brought me delight at the time, but I
wish that I had done other things with that money,
you know, let alone, let her keep it, you know,
But you know, getting back to your point, like comic
books is one thing also, you know, and it's right
at the top of the episode.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know Thundercat.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
You mentioned him in Flying Lotus, you know, working with
you on the Hannibal Show. Also just his he walked
up at iHeart and I'm not a I don't pay
attention to jewelry and stuff like that, you know, but
he came in with a Doom medallion that he talks
about at the top of the episode and then elaborates
on his profound appreciation and collaborative.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Plans with Daniel Dumalay.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
And I thought of you as well, because I know
he's a north star in your life.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Hopefully I'm not miss speaking.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Oh no, that's that's absolutely the case, not only creatively historically.
I have a lot of Doom art here in my home.
People send me a lot of stuff like that, and
I tend to put it up in the house.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Did you I mean similar question when I asked about Thundercat.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I mean in your career, did you have any interactions
with Doom?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Not directly, I mean we have we got two songs together.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I'm on.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You mentioned zar Face earlier. I'm on a Zarface song
it features Doom. And when I had my show on
Comedy Central The New Negroes. Part of it was that
we had an original song for every episode, and we
did a collab with each one, and one of them
was done. We were able to get him on a
song for our Comedy Central show Wow Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So but did you, I mean at that point in
Doom's career, I know he was abroad a lot. I mean,
you never got to give him a pound or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I never did. I never did. By the time I
was in the even the beginning of having a career,
he was already out of the country and not allowed back.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I mean to me, when I think of the pandemic,
and I think of the ugly side of the pandemic,
which you know, from a health standpoint, was all of it.
And you know, Amir talks about this a lot, but
I think of sort of what you and I were
talking about, the lack of distractions that we sometimes have
gotten back to. But I think of the one battle
after another emotionally of twenty twenty into twenty twenty one,
(11:30):
and I think, you know, the loss of Doom learning
it and then learning that it was kind of after
the fact, at least for me, with the general public.
You know, that was that was one of the hardest
blows ever, you know, in terms of just mourning your heroes.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, I was. I remember that that was a New
Year's Eve when the announcement came out and I hadn't
heard it either. I remember I took a nap that
day so that I would be ready to hang out
that night, and I woke up from the nap to
people texting me that they were so worry about the
Doom news and I'm like, WHOA. So I'm like disoriented
(12:03):
coming back into consciousness and getting this terrible news, and
it really it put me down for like three or
four days. I feel like I feel like New Year's
Eve was like a Thursday that year or something like
that sounds about right, And I feel like through that
weekend I was just really in a bad, bad space.
But that was when it sort of occurred to me
(12:24):
that for the first time of my life, I needed
to directly and in real time wrap my way through
something in order to process it. And so the song
that I have that that is an elegy for him
is called for Doom. I wrote and recorded it like
(12:46):
that weekend. It was like four days after he passed
where I sort of was rapping about my feelings of
being a fan of his my entire life, how privileged
it was I felt to collab with him, how nervous
I was about it, how it felt to hear that news.
And it's sort of culminated in me realizing as I
(13:08):
was writing this rhyme that this piece of doom art
that I have in my house that's a photo of
him is not really him.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, And it was like the perfect code to the thing.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And that's very open mic ego of you two. Just
to kind of pull the rug at the end. That's
so interesting and it's funny, like, you know, I've worked
over twenty years kind of in the hip hop media side.
I don't the word journalists is weird, but you know,
I led hip Hop DX for a number of years
back in the.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Wow hip Hop DX man. Yeah, speaking of rest in peace,
like all.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Our work, but the work that you know, for my
seven years, they're gone off the internet.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
That really bothers me, like a lot more than people
might understand.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, I hope it comes back.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I was gonna talk to some of the folks that
are now at least own it. You know, try to
understand the logic behind that, but.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, it breaks my heart.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
But all that to say, you know, in DX and
then I spent for the last thirteen years I've been
part of Ambrosia for Heads, and I've known over the
time that you know, when we've cut still images sometimes,
especially in the later years, once there were glasses involved,
it's not always actually Doom, and that messes with you.
And I think that only adds to the legend.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I always think of like the Internet being shocked that
Humpty Hump was shocked G, but sometimes wasn't shocked G.
It's like Andy Kaufman and Tony Clifton. But I think
it adds like when you see both in the same
room at the same time and you're just like what, Yeah,
I think that contributes to that effect.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's just me a while to get to the point
of being able to appreciate Doom for being able to
pull that off, because I had the misfortune of being
at two of those shows okay where he wasn't there.
I went to one show that he actually he was
there in like four five, and then I'd say, like, oh,
(15:06):
six oh seven. Maybe I was at two shows where
it was not him, and that did not feel good,
just to be like a paying customer coming to see
him perform and you can tell very early and easily
that it's not really him. Yeah, that was not a
good feeling. And I came away from those events feeling like, oh,
that's kind of messed up that he doesn't care about
(15:30):
his audience enough to actually show up and perform. But
that is also before any of us understood what the
circumstances were behind that as well. But you know, he
also didn't put that out there so right.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
You remember on the second time, was that when he
was on the Loop a Fiasco Food and Liquor tour
as the opener.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
No one was I want to say, it was rock
the Bells out here. And another one it was a
New Year's Eve show, a big, huge New Year's Eve
show here in LA that had a bunch of rappers
on it, and he was the headliner, you know, with
the with the countdown and all of that, and it
just was not him. I talked to I'm homies with
(16:13):
John Robinson, who was a first collaborator of Duns, and
John Robinson was on the stage that night, and he
without saying too much of what he said. He was
telling me that the way that it went down it
was also a surprise to him. So yeah, it was.
It was levels of theater happening.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Man. Shout out to John Robinson when I'm in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
He and I had lunch one time, I mean tour
in two thousand and seven and eight at this vegetarian
spot on west Ford Street, and he was always cool.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I'm a big Signs of Life fan, and.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah, aside the stuff he did with Doom and then
he had that whole album. One of the cool things
about Doom, and I think Dyla and Mad Live have
the same kind of mythology is that before producers were
talking about loaning beats, a lot of those productions just
felt like they because they would appear different places, and
especially with John Robinson and never he made that whole
(17:10):
album over Doom production, But it felt real because I
knew he was always inner circle as I understood it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You know, it is different when you know that those
artists have a connection versus you know, the label has
these beats, yes, paring them with somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah, somebody trying to get on wrapping over dilla beats. Yeah,
I'll share my little story. I never met Doom face
to face, but I interviewed him in two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
There's a lesser known thing that you remember back when,
like Sandbox.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Automatic and hip hop Site, the early online retailers of
the hip hop that you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And I love.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh yes, I spent I spent hours on him sites.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I spent not only.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Hours, I spent wages from Burger King, wages, all sorts
of jobs. And there was an exclusive kind of mashup
thing that was authorized by Doom called Nostradomas and it
was two thousand and three, and it was when NAS
had put out. It wasn't just the Nostradama stuff, but
it was recent, you know. I am and kind of
the early two thousands. Nas a cappellas put to Doom
(18:18):
and Matt Conaway veteran emir, and I just worked with
him on booking DJ Muggs.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
He offered me Doom. I was at the.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Time an editor at all hip Hop dot Com and
I spoke to Doohim for half an hour on the phone.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
And it's similar to kind of I think his music like.
On one hand, he.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Was super lucid and super he remembered things that really
shocked me. But on another hand, he was kind of
one take Jake and just like some things he would
talk about some things he wouldn't, and that added to
the mythology. But what always kind of blew me away
about that is I asked him at one point, I'm like,
you know, KMD comes under the third base story, you know,
(18:55):
as you've covered with your podcast and sodas Nas and
you know, as I understand it, you know, Pete Nice
was a big cultivator of CAMD and Doom and Search
obviously you know, signed NOAs to the production company and
you know, had a strong hand in the business side
of Illmatic. And it's so wild that at that point,
which was about ten years later, you know, after Emadic
(19:17):
and around, you know, the same time as the second
km D album, you have these guys interfacing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
In a way they might not even know about.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
And Doom had memories of meeting Nas, being in the
same room, sitting in the same studio sessions.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And the cool thing.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Is is that was three which a year later, Doom
really starts to occupy that amazing spot, you know, with multiple.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Albums, Victor Vaughn and Mad Villain and Food all dropping
into danger Doom.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, all of that stuff exactly, so you know, and
it lends itself to a question. And obviously we're talking
about Thundercat talking about Doom, but you know, to me,
he's always hip Hop's like greatest reinvent It's the one
that if I was explaining this stuff to my son
someday and why it means to me and why it
might be like comic books or it might be like
(20:07):
a great movie. Doom is that story? And you know,
I want to ask you, being a fan that you are, like,
can you speak to what that reinvention means to you
as an artist?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
To me, it's remarkable because it's such a difficult thing
to do when you have your business hat on, Like
it's one thing, you know, we're all creative forces. We
all have this creativity we have access to and that
tends to always perpetuate. But it's difficult when you have
stacked attention and notoriety and you've really nurtured a name,
(20:44):
You have people invested in that name, You might have
companies that invest in money to promote this name, and
for you to choose to walk away from that in
order to reapproach the business from a different creative lens.
I think think that's so risky, and I think that like,
it is a really powerful move because you're walking away
(21:07):
from everything. But I've also seen it not work because
it's such a difficult thing to do. You're an essence,
walking away from all of the work you've put in,
and unless you're arming people with the tools to tell
the world that this guy is now this guy, then
you're truly starting over from scratch, and it's really, it's really,
(21:32):
it's a really difficult thing to do. I always applaud
people and commend them, and I think there is something
to be said for how it helps rappers specifically age
more gracefully and rap because I feel like, oftentimes, you
come into this business seventeen eighteen years old, and you
(21:54):
have a particular sort of creative ethos that you're coming
at it from, and you have your experiences in the industry,
you have your experiences in life, and you come out
of at a different person. By the time you're thirty,
you're probably not very much like you were when you
were seventeen eighteen, and that might have been when people
(22:16):
were promoting you the hardest. So it makes sense that
you might want to step away from that and come
with a different perspective, a different direction. And so I
think that when you look at long careers in hip hop,
oftentimes you can point to, oh, there was a reinvention there,
(22:36):
there was a reinvention there, and that helped them adapt
to the different eras.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, that's a really good point. I think Doom exemplifies that.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Like I it was funny, like I try to, I
meet people sometimes that only know the hits of the
Beastie Boys, and you know, like, and that speaks exactly
to your point.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Who they were in the eyes of.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Def jam as eighteen seventeen eighteen year olds is vastly.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Different who they were at twenty one, you.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Know, And then how do you manage that image? How
do you reconcile that catalog and talk about it and
maybe disappoint people when you're not that One thing that
I've learned in the process of this Thundercat journey with
this conversation, which I truly love and I love the
fact and I'll call him Steven because that's how he,
(23:22):
you know, introduced himself to me too, Like I love
it when an artist it just enters the conversation to
talk about anything. I mean, very true of your your
quest love to show conversation last year of just like Hey,
I'm gonna meet the combo where it's at. They talked
a little bit about Distracted and you know, a dedication
to mac Miller, but it was also just I'm gonna
(23:43):
be human. And one of the things he spent a
lot of time talking about was mentorship. And he spoke
about a figure that I'm always curious about, Reggie Andrews,
and I learned about. You know, it's funny, like I
own some dazz band records that I've listened to and
I didn't know that name. But years ago I was
watching The Farside early in their career, an old interview
(24:04):
where they were talking about how this very musical person
came into their life and really kind of honed them
and cultivated them. And it was Reggie and they were
laughing because it was ten years past the Dad's band,
and they were making fun of his hairstyle and you know,
this pass a thing. But to really hear Steven, to
hear Thundercat drive home, how this one educator changed generations
(24:26):
of musicians at Loch High and other places in California.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I thought it was just super illuminating.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, you know, and it would have illuminated to me specifically.
I've been in this town, like I said, twenty years.
I didn't meet Thundercat till like I moved here in
two thousand and four. I don't think I met Thundercat
till like twenty fifteen, sixteen or something like that. What
it made me really understand was, Yeah, we've all been
(24:56):
here and we're all part of this grand creative community.
But the relationships that they have over on that jazz
side are cultivated by those years they spent in the trenches,
running around the city, playing stuff out of the fake
book and being mentored in this case by that one person.
And to me, it illuminates the sort of distance between
(25:18):
the different creative communities here. Like I was in I
was on the rap side. So you know, we were
doing stuff over a project blode and which were the
descendants of the people from the Good Life Cafe, and
so we were very rap heavy, to the point where
even the producers involved in our circle split off and
(25:39):
started doing the low end theory thing. And then that
became a whole other thing, and it's funny I ended up,
you know, connecting with Thundercat through largely through Flying Lotus
and the beat scene which developed over there. So to me,
it was just an interesting peak into a history that
was happening while I was here. But it was like
(26:00):
over there in a community that I wasn't involved in.
I thought that was really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, I think that happens a lot, like, you know,
similar to you.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I moved to Philly and O two and it's funny,
like I just went to the roots picnic and spent
most of it. We taped content, you know, taped interviews
Saturday and Sunday, so I wasn't out there mixing up.
But there are so many people in Philly that folks
will always but oh you must know so and so, and.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I don't you know, I've heard of them. I've heard
of them.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
But you know, I spent my trenches were not in studio,
you know, they were covering, they were listening, they.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Were working, they were one to one, they weren't.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Necessarily communal, And it was always fascinating to learn that
there are so many times you were in a room
with somebody that you don't even realize and then years
later you form a bond and you realize, you know,
and ThunderCats that I really dug his energy.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I also just appreciate. I'm a big fan of just
self deprecation.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
And I love the way I found it inspiring, the
way he leaned into, you know, handle kind of being
bullied or being teased or being ostracized in school, and
also yet coming from an environment that I feel like,
you know, the environment that he described of Compton and
other parts of Los Angeles was very much the John Singleton,
(27:15):
you know, Hughes Brothers. Like literally he said his house
was shot at, and I thought that that's wild, because
he doesn't lead with that in his public facing persona.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
You know, I mean, you know, that's that I want
to say, is that unfortunate? Something like that, But it's
partitive course, like I know, I know that story all
too well. And so one of the things I was
connected with that he was talking about was how people
he was around, like in school, didn't understand or had
(27:43):
no awareness of the music he was listening to. Because
to me, that goes right along with that. It's like
you're all in school with these people, you might have
grown up with these people. Some of these people are
in the streets doing street stuff, and then some of
us are in the house learning how to play an
instrument or I was, you know, somewhere learning how to
break dance or doing graffiti like and so my experience
(28:05):
and interest would take me away from what my homies
were doing, and my homies would be in the streets,
creating the stereotype people understand my neighborhood by you know,
But I'm having this whole different experience and it's like, yeah,
I've throughout my life, I've just known so many people
who like myself, kind of have that experience where you know,
(28:27):
this environment, this environment is in you, but it's just
not a part of you in such an overt way
like it can be with other people.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, And I'm just curious to you, like, what do
you think. I don't the term weird, especially in this
political climate, is such a loaded adjective all of a sudden,
But you and I are just meaning like alternative, different,
out there music. But what do you think, you know,
raising yourself on that diet, what do you think it
did for you in those formative years of being an adolescent,
(28:55):
regardless of you as a creator.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I mean, I think it was. Actually it made my
life feel tougher at the time that I didn't have
the same sort of common touchstones that other people have.
And we would sit around and talk about music, and
you know, they'd be talking about mcavelly and I'd be
listening to MF. Doom's first twelve inches, you know what
I'm saying, Like it felt. It used to often feel
(29:17):
like socially, me and my friend group was on another
planet compared to everybody else because we weren't you know,
in my high school it was do you like Biggie
or do you like pop? Right, and we were like,
we don't care about either of these people because we're
over here spinning on our heads and listening to diamond
D And you know what I'm saying. Like, So it
(29:38):
didn't feel good at the time socially to have a
different set of interests. You know, we liked what we
like and that was cool. But when I think back
on it now, it's like, oh yeah, right, Like that's
like following our interest to that degree and finding these
(29:59):
sources of other me music. This made us who we were,
And oftentimes I get tickled sometimes when I'll you know,
see something on Facebook and it's somebody I knew from
high school talking about how they just, you know, bought
a Doom album or something, you know what I'm saying,
And I'm like, that's cute.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You have a vivid memory of you coming in, you know,
playing something, or you couldn't talk about it then, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, or not feeling like I could a lot of
times when I think back on it too, those the
distance between me and other people oftentimes was more stark
in my mind than it wasn't real life. Sure, I
just didn't feel a lot of license to discuss what
it was I was into with people because I didn't
feel like there was enough common ground.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
When I would go.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Into a record store in ninety nine two thousand, I
was in my teens and I asked, you know, hey,
do you guys have the Black Delicious aided you know
eight a GEP?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
And they, oh, you like that?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
And you could have a conversation with somebody who spoke
your language. It meant like the world got real small
and it was fun. It was so exciting, and I
I don't get that same joy in connecting with people
that way. I mean, do you find that it's different
these days with that I don't know, Like, maybe it's
(31:20):
because of just the way we access music.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I'm just like, oh, it's cool, you got it loaded
iPod or but like it just feels different. I don't know.
Maybe I'm being cynical or jaded about it.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, I think that part of what you're describing is
the effort that it used to take to find stuff
that wasn't on the radio. Like just that alone, the
steps you had to take to find music that wasn't
just being served to you on television on the radio.
You know, the people who were willing and interested in
(31:50):
taking those steps, they felt a kinship with each other.
And now not only do we all have every genre
of everything at our fingertips, we also all live under
a different algorithm that's giving us a different digital product
line of music every day. So now it's just so
(32:11):
much more fractured. Yeah, and it takes so much less
effort that I think it's hard to tell how much
you and this person are alike now based on having
a shared interest in a particular piece of music.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That's real. Your point is valid to like, the algorithms
that be are forcing me right now to get really
into Tom Mish. It might be working, it might not be.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
But like I appreciated our discussion in LA and it's
in one of these mini episodes where you kind of
spoke to the effect of XTC's Mummer and you were like,
that's what I'm listening to right now. And I still
try to do that, whether it's a CD, it's an
albums I'm streaming, like play it, play it again, play
it some more.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And yesterday Amir was talking about, you know, he's very.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Much on a Steely Dan journey right now, because he
was like, yeah, I feel like we're always all of
us are always on a Steely Dan journey. But that
is a habit that I'm trying to keep an integrate
and that way, the person I run into or meet
that we get to talking and they are talking about
what's currently in my ears.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Then it means a little more.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
That's real.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's real, yo, man, Thank you. I encourage everyone. I mean,
certainly if you got this far, you probably checked it
out Thundercap. But it's a great episode, it really is. Yeah, absolutely,
and more many episodes coming. The Roots have a lot
of dates this summer. I tried to get a mirror
on one yesterday. Our guest showed up early and sometimes
that throws things off. But he will be back in
(33:32):
the mix soon come.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
But in the meantime, I'm having fun wrapping with you.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Might Awesome Always A Pleasure Question Show is a production
(33:57):
of iHeart Radio.
Quest Love Show is a production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Open Mic. Man, How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Man? I'm showing man keeping these plates spinning as usual?
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I like that.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I never added to my repertoire, but I'm spinning a
lot of plates myself.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
That's what we do these days. That's what we do
is people who work in creative industries, you very rarely
get to just focus on one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, and it's perfect because you know, it's funny. We're
talking about Thundercat on this mini episode of The Questlove
Show and his new album is called Distracted, And you know,
how do you handle distractions?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Oh? Man, I'd like distract myself from work with like
other work. Like I tend to have, you know, two
or three very big things, any constant attention, and then
a bunch of little stuff and admin it pops throughout
the day and it's like sometimes my treats to myself.
It's just the work that I want to do first,
(01:11):
the work I have to do.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's well said.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, let me ask you this then, like what in
your repertoire if you can say, like, what is your
favorite work to do outside of I'm gonna say, you know,
recording and making music your your impetus hum.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So, my favorite work to do is not what pays
me a lot, and I think that's typically how the
correlation goes. My favorite thing to do is technically work,
is making beats. I'm honestly just making a piece of
art for myself that's not attached to any expectation, and
it feels a little more creatively fulfilling because of that.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
How long into your vocal career have you been making beats.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I've been making beats the whole time.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Whole time.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Wow, I started making beats well before I started recording.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I did not know that. Okay, wow, you came in
on the production tip.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I mean when I say I was making beats, very
few of them were worth hearing about other people. And
even to this day, the vast majority of my beats
nobody hears. And it's because I am I have access
to so many really great producers that you know. I
don't try to force the issue on my stuff, because
(02:23):
you know, I don't think my stuff is quite that good.
But like I said, oftentimes it's stuff that I hear
in my head that I want to hear, and it
makes me feel good for having done it, even if
it's not gonna be my next song.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, well, I have to imagine too for somebody
that loves all music as much.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
As you seem to. I mean, you and I are
still good to know each other.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
But like I always thought, like in my rapper fantasy
camp or and my musician fantasy camp, one of the
best things would be like picking beats from other people
like that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Because yeah, I mean, you know what, this is the thing.
It is fun. But what I have found because I
have been doing some group stuff with my group previous
industries with video David Steel Rift, and the act of
picking beats with other people is very different than the
(03:15):
act of meat picking beats by myself. And so in
the fantasy camp situation, I'm like, oh, that could be fun.
It could also be a little tense, depending on what
people's tastes are.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, my best like musical friend, my best friend that
I can talk week to week about new music with.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We always laugh at the fact that a.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
New album will release and it could be in any
sub sector of genre, but especially in hip hop, and
we're always picking different favorite sections of it. And so
that's funny. I can only imagine when you have a band.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Made a groupmate that that creates I won't say acrimony,
but dissidence, you.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Know, yeah, yeah, it's it's just really interesting how something
can be a complete, you know, absolute smash for one
person and another person is just like I hate this,
you know, it's this is really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
And since we last spoke too, and when this comes out,
you know, you have new music on the way, a
new single out which I truly dig. So I appreciate
that everyone who's listening to this, And you know, I
get this sense from reading the comments. So many people
are very well versed and open mic Eagle, but let
this be a reminder to do your dsp Googles and
check it out.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh for real? Yeah, I mean, I think, especially when
it comes to my podcasting exploits, my music is often
not front and center. So I certainly couldn't blame anybody
for not being aware if this is how they came
to me, because I'm typically not talking about my stuff.
But yeah, there's a lot of legacy, a lot of catalogs,
so if people are interested, there's a lot for them
(04:50):
to dig into.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
So, you know, I live on the East Coast. But
one of the things that fascinates me about the LA
music community period, especially of the last twenty five years,
it's just that, you know, walls don't seem to exist,
like so many folks have worked together, have shared studio
space together, done all these different things, and you know,
you and I are here. It kind of as a
supplement to the recent Thundercat episode of the Questlove Show,
(05:15):
and I happened to be there for the taping and
we're running it with our kind of slate, which is
something that started years ago with Quest Love Supreme of
Black Music Month. And you know, I'm curious being that
he's an LA guy and you've been in LA. I mean,
damn near thirty years. You shared with me recently. Is
there a relationship? Have you guys shared air? Is there
(05:37):
like you and Thundercat? Is there anything you know in
that dynamic?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well twenty years when I said.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You didn't move there, I got you.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, me and him have been in
a lot of rooms together. We famously, in my world,
performed together once on Hannibal Bursts television show. I was
sort of making my television performance debut and it was
in collaboration with Thundercat and Flying Lotus when I performed
(06:10):
on that show, and we didn't know each other super
well then, but we got to know each other quite
a bit after, and it run into each other quite
a few times since we have a lot of shared interests.
When he took that deep breath and started talking about
comic books, I was I was right there with him.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And him in the room.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I thought of, youmic because that was about I think
we Yeah, we did. We taped that episode in April
about fresh off of coming into LA the first time
you and I were in the room together and hung
out with you, Amir, Brittany Nick, the rest of the gang,
and you know, I got a sense of listening to
you talking about comic books and wrestling.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So when I watched his take a deep breath.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And then just kind of micro machine man yes through it,
I thought of because that's a passion I don't have.
I've actually never owned or read a comic book in
my life.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You've never read It's really interesting. So the only reason
that's really surprising is because we're around the same age,
and when we were young, there just wasn't a whole
bunch of stuff to do, so I'm amazed that you
never found yourself. Yeah, comic book was your only option.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I grew up in a household that didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
It always sounds like a religious thing, but like my
dad would never like watch anything science fiction, with like
one exception like the mad Max Road Warrior cannon. But
like like I didn't see Star Wars. I haven't still
not seen it the whole way through, like.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I am now okay, okay, yeah, and so car was
part of that.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The funny thing is is like I watched the Robert
Crumb movie back in the day, and I watched I
remember when American Splendor came out, and I was like,
Harvey Peak, like this looks like a comic.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I can get behind, like indie comics.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah yeah, but even still all these years later, I'm
sure promo wise, like people have sent me, like when
Czar Face or somebody would do like an item and
I'd said it, aid, I'd give it to somebody would
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
But yeah, man, I still got my comic book Virginity
and tact.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's what's up, man, Uh you know that's that's I'm like,
On one hand, Oh, it'd be a nice thing to
introduce you to. On the other hand, it's like, you know,
let him cook. Yeah, you're like and you're not missing
that much, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I mean I have personality.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And the funny thing is is like as a kid,
I think the other alternative was like, in terms of
tangible media, it was like baseball cards. Yeah yeah, you know,
not not in a collector way, but I just loved
looking through them, learning the status.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Same here since that, like I have I have a
collection of comic book trading cards from that era. But
in that era, it was all trading cards. It was basketball, football, baseball, everything,
and the same experience you discussed of just reading through
(08:57):
and trying to understand the stats and all of that.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I think of every time my mom, you know, must
have handed me a five dollar bill to try to
like be a cool.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Mom or like she knew that, Like I had waited
in the car for three or four hours, and.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I wish I wish I had now at this age,
Like it brought me delight at the time, but I
wish that I had done other things with that money,
you know, let alone, let her keep it, you know,
But you know, getting back to your point, like comic
books is one thing also, you know, and it's right
at the top of the episode.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know Thundercat.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
You mentioned him in Flying Lotus, you know, working with
you on the Hannibal Show. Also just his he walked
up at iHeart and I'm not a I don't pay
attention to jewelry and stuff like that, you know, but
he came in with a Doom medallion that he talks
about at the top of the episode and then elaborates
on his profound appreciation and collaborative.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Plans with Daniel Dumalay.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
And I thought of you as well, because I know
he's a north star in your life.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Hopefully I'm not miss speaking.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Oh no, that's that's absolutely the case, not only creatively historically.
I have a lot of Doom art here in my home.
People send me a lot of stuff like that, and
I tend to put it up in the house.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Did you I mean similar question when I asked about Thundercat.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I mean in your career, did you have any interactions
with Doom?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Not directly, I mean we have we got two songs together.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I'm on.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You mentioned zar Face earlier. I'm on a Zarface song
it features Doom. And when I had my show on
Comedy Central The New Negroes. Part of it was that
we had an original song for every episode, and we
did a collab with each one, and one of them
was done. We were able to get him on a
song for our Comedy Central show Wow Wow.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So but did you, I mean at that point in
Doom's career, I know he was abroad a lot. I mean,
you never got to give him a pound or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I never did. I never did. By the time I
was in the even the beginning of having a career,
he was already out of the country and not allowed back.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I mean to me, when I think of the pandemic,
and I think of the ugly side of the pandemic,
which you know, from a health standpoint, was all of it.
And you know, Amir talks about this a lot, but
I think of sort of what you and I were
talking about, the lack of distractions that we sometimes have
gotten back to. But I think of the one battle
after another emotionally of twenty twenty into twenty twenty one,
(11:30):
and I think, you know, the loss of Doom learning
it and then learning that it was kind of after
the fact, at least for me, with the general public.
You know, that was that was one of the hardest
blows ever, you know, in terms of just mourning your heroes.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, I was. I remember that that was a New
Year's Eve when the announcement came out and I hadn't
heard it either. I remember I took a nap that
day so that I would be ready to hang out
that night, and I woke up from the nap to
people texting me that they were so worry about the
Doom news and I'm like, WHOA. So I'm like disoriented
(12:03):
coming back into consciousness and getting this terrible news, and
it really it put me down for like three or
four days. I feel like I feel like New Year's
Eve was like a Thursday that year or something like
that sounds about right, And I feel like through that
weekend I was just really in a bad, bad space.
But that was when it sort of occurred to me
(12:24):
that for the first time of my life, I needed
to directly and in real time wrap my way through
something in order to process it. And so the song
that I have that that is an elegy for him
is called for Doom. I wrote and recorded it like
(12:46):
that weekend. It was like four days after he passed
where I sort of was rapping about my feelings of
being a fan of his my entire life, how privileged
it was I felt to collab with him, how nervous
I was about it, how it felt to hear that news.
And it's sort of culminated in me realizing as I
(13:08):
was writing this rhyme that this piece of doom art
that I have in my house that's a photo of
him is not really him.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, And it was like the perfect code to the thing.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
And that's very open mic ego of you two. Just
to kind of pull the rug at the end. That's
so interesting and it's funny, like, you know, I've worked
over twenty years kind of in the hip hop media side.
I don't the word journalists is weird, but you know,
I led hip Hop DX for a number of years
back in the.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Wow hip Hop DX man. Yeah, speaking of rest in peace,
like all.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Our work, but the work that you know, for my
seven years, they're gone off the internet.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
That really bothers me, like a lot more than people
might understand.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, I hope it comes back.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I was gonna talk to some of the folks that
are now at least own it. You know, try to
understand the logic behind that, but.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, it breaks my heart.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
But all that to say, you know, in DX and
then I spent for the last thirteen years I've been
part of Ambrosia for Heads, and I've known over the
time that you know, when we've cut still images sometimes,
especially in the later years, once there were glasses involved,
it's not always actually Doom, and that messes with you.
And I think that only adds to the legend.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I always think of like the Internet being shocked that
Humpty Hump was shocked G, but sometimes wasn't shocked G.
It's like Andy Kaufman and Tony Clifton. But I think
it adds like when you see both in the same
room at the same time and you're just like what, Yeah,
I think that contributes to that effect.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's just me a while to get to the point
of being able to appreciate Doom for being able to
pull that off, because I had the misfortune of being
at two of those shows okay where he wasn't there.
I went to one show that he actually he was
there in like four five, and then I'd say, like, oh,
(15:06):
six oh seven. Maybe I was at two shows where
it was not him, and that did not feel good,
just to be like a paying customer coming to see
him perform and you can tell very early and easily
that it's not really him. Yeah, that was not a
good feeling. And I came away from those events feeling like, oh,
that's kind of messed up that he doesn't care about
(15:30):
his audience enough to actually show up and perform. But
that is also before any of us understood what the
circumstances were behind that as well. But you know, he
also didn't put that out there so right.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
You remember on the second time, was that when he
was on the Loop a Fiasco Food and Liquor tour
as the opener.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
No one was I want to say, it was rock
the Bells out here. And another one it was a
New Year's Eve show, a big, huge New Year's Eve
show here in LA that had a bunch of rappers
on it, and he was the headliner, you know, with
the with the countdown and all of that, and it
just was not him. I talked to I'm homies with
(16:13):
John Robinson, who was a first collaborator of Duns, and
John Robinson was on the stage that night, and he
without saying too much of what he said. He was
telling me that the way that it went down it
was also a surprise to him. So yeah, it was.
It was levels of theater happening.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Man. Shout out to John Robinson when I'm in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
He and I had lunch one time, I mean tour
in two thousand and seven and eight at this vegetarian
spot on west Ford Street, and he was always cool.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I'm a big Signs of Life fan, and.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah, aside the stuff he did with Doom and then
he had that whole album. One of the cool things
about Doom, and I think Dyla and Mad Live have
the same kind of mythology is that before producers were
talking about loaning beats, a lot of those productions just
felt like they because they would appear different places, and
especially with John Robinson and never he made that whole
(17:10):
album over Doom production, But it felt real because I
knew he was always inner circle as I understood it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You know, it is different when you know that those
artists have a connection versus you know, the label has
these beats, yes, paring them with somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah, somebody trying to get on wrapping over dilla beats. Yeah,
I'll share my little story. I never met Doom face
to face, but I interviewed him in two thousand and three.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
There's a lesser known thing that you remember back when,
like Sandbox.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Automatic and hip hop Site, the early online retailers of
the hip hop that you.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And I love.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh yes, I spent I spent hours on him sites.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I spent not only.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Hours, I spent wages from Burger King, wages, all sorts
of jobs. And there was an exclusive kind of mashup
thing that was authorized by Doom called Nostradomas and it
was two thousand and three, and it was when NAS
had put out. It wasn't just the Nostradama stuff, but
it was recent, you know. I am and kind of
the early two thousands. Nas a cappellas put to Doom
(18:18):
and Matt Conaway veteran emir, and I just worked with
him on booking DJ Muggs.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
He offered me Doom. I was at the.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Time an editor at all hip Hop dot Com and
I spoke to Doohim for half an hour on the phone.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
And it's similar to kind of I think his music like.
On one hand, he.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Was super lucid and super he remembered things that really
shocked me. But on another hand, he was kind of
one take Jake and just like some things he would
talk about some things he wouldn't, and that added to
the mythology. But what always kind of blew me away
about that is I asked him at one point, I'm like,
you know, KMD comes under the third base story, you know,
(18:55):
as you've covered with your podcast and sodas Nas and
you know, as I understand it, you know, Pete Nice
was a big cultivator of CAMD and Doom and Search
obviously you know, signed NOAs to the production company and
you know, had a strong hand in the business side
of Illmatic. And it's so wild that at that point,
which was about ten years later, you know, after Emadic
(19:17):
and around, you know, the same time as the second
km D album, you have these guys interfacing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
In a way they might not even know about.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
And Doom had memories of meeting Nas, being in the
same room, sitting in the same studio sessions.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And the cool thing.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Is is that was three which a year later, Doom
really starts to occupy that amazing spot, you know, with multiple.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Albums, Victor Vaughn and Mad Villain and Food all dropping
into danger Doom.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, all of that stuff exactly, so you know, and
it lends itself to a question. And obviously we're talking
about Thundercat talking about Doom, but you know, to me,
he's always hip Hop's like greatest reinvent It's the one
that if I was explaining this stuff to my son
someday and why it means to me and why it
might be like comic books or it might be like
(20:07):
a great movie. Doom is that story? And you know,
I want to ask you, being a fan that you are, like,
can you speak to what that reinvention means to you
as an artist?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
To me, it's remarkable because it's such a difficult thing
to do when you have your business hat on, Like
it's one thing, you know, we're all creative forces. We
all have this creativity we have access to and that
tends to always perpetuate. But it's difficult when you have
stacked attention and notoriety and you've really nurtured a name,
(20:44):
You have people invested in that name, You might have
companies that invest in money to promote this name, and
for you to choose to walk away from that in
order to reapproach the business from a different creative lens.
I think think that's so risky, and I think that like,
it is a really powerful move because you're walking away
(21:07):
from everything. But I've also seen it not work because
it's such a difficult thing to do. You're an essence,
walking away from all of the work you've put in,
and unless you're arming people with the tools to tell
the world that this guy is now this guy, then
you're truly starting over from scratch, and it's really, it's really,
(21:32):
it's a really difficult thing to do. I always applaud
people and commend them, and I think there is something
to be said for how it helps rappers specifically age
more gracefully and rap because I feel like, oftentimes, you
come into this business seventeen eighteen years old, and you
(21:54):
have a particular sort of creative ethos that you're coming
at it from, and you have your experiences in the industry,
you have your experiences in life, and you come out
of at a different person. By the time you're thirty,
you're probably not very much like you were when you
were seventeen eighteen, and that might have been when people
(22:16):
were promoting you the hardest. So it makes sense that
you might want to step away from that and come
with a different perspective, a different direction. And so I
think that when you look at long careers in hip hop,
oftentimes you can point to, oh, there was a reinvention there,
(22:36):
there was a reinvention there, and that helped them adapt
to the different eras.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, that's a really good point. I think Doom exemplifies that.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Like I it was funny, like I try to, I
meet people sometimes that only know the hits of the
Beastie Boys, and you know, like, and that speaks exactly
to your point.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Who they were in the eyes of.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Def jam as eighteen seventeen eighteen year olds is vastly.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Different who they were at twenty one, you.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Know, And then how do you manage that image? How
do you reconcile that catalog and talk about it and
maybe disappoint people when you're not that One thing that
I've learned in the process of this Thundercat journey with
this conversation, which I truly love and I love the
fact and I'll call him Steven because that's how he,
(23:22):
you know, introduced himself to me too, Like I love
it when an artist it just enters the conversation to
talk about anything. I mean, very true of your your
quest love to show conversation last year of just like Hey,
I'm gonna meet the combo where it's at. They talked
a little bit about Distracted and you know, a dedication
to mac Miller, but it was also just I'm gonna
(23:43):
be human. And one of the things he spent a
lot of time talking about was mentorship. And he spoke
about a figure that I'm always curious about, Reggie Andrews,
and I learned about. You know, it's funny, like I
own some dazz band records that I've listened to and
I didn't know that name. But years ago I was
watching The Farside early in their career, an old interview
(24:04):
where they were talking about how this very musical person
came into their life and really kind of honed them
and cultivated them. And it was Reggie and they were
laughing because it was ten years past the Dad's band,
and they were making fun of his hairstyle and you know,
this pass a thing. But to really hear Steven, to
hear Thundercat drive home, how this one educator changed generations
(24:26):
of musicians at Loch High and other places in California.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I thought it was just super illuminating.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, you know, and it would have illuminated to me specifically.
I've been in this town, like I said, twenty years.
I didn't meet Thundercat till like I moved here in
two thousand and four. I don't think I met Thundercat
till like twenty fifteen, sixteen or something like that. What
it made me really understand was, Yeah, we've all been
(24:56):
here and we're all part of this grand creative community.
But the relationships that they have over on that jazz
side are cultivated by those years they spent in the trenches,
running around the city, playing stuff out of the fake
book and being mentored in this case by that one person.
And to me, it illuminates the sort of distance between
(25:18):
the different creative communities here. Like I was in I
was on the rap side. So you know, we were
doing stuff over a project blode and which were the
descendants of the people from the Good Life Cafe, and
so we were very rap heavy, to the point where
even the producers involved in our circle split off and
(25:39):
started doing the low end theory thing. And then that
became a whole other thing, and it's funny I ended up,
you know, connecting with Thundercat through largely through Flying Lotus
and the beat scene which developed over there. So to me,
it was just an interesting peak into a history that
was happening while I was here. But it was like
(26:00):
over there in a community that I wasn't involved in.
I thought that was really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, I think that happens a lot, like, you know,
similar to you.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I moved to Philly and O two and it's funny,
like I just went to the roots picnic and spent
most of it. We taped content, you know, taped interviews
Saturday and Sunday, so I wasn't out there mixing up.
But there are so many people in Philly that folks
will always but oh you must know so and so, and.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I don't you know, I've heard of them. I've heard
of them.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
But you know, I spent my trenches were not in studio,
you know, they were covering, they were listening, they.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Were working, they were one to one, they weren't.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Necessarily communal, And it was always fascinating to learn that
there are so many times you were in a room
with somebody that you don't even realize and then years
later you form a bond and you realize, you know,
and ThunderCats that I really dug his energy.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I also just appreciate. I'm a big fan of just
self deprecation.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
And I love the way I found it inspiring, the
way he leaned into, you know, handle kind of being
bullied or being teased or being ostracized in school, and
also yet coming from an environment that I feel like,
you know, the environment that he described of Compton and
other parts of Los Angeles was very much the John Singleton,
(27:15):
you know, Hughes Brothers. Like literally he said his house
was shot at, and I thought that that's wild, because
he doesn't lead with that in his public facing persona.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
You know, I mean, you know, that's that I want
to say, is that unfortunate? Something like that, But it's
partitive course, like I know, I know that story all
too well. And so one of the things I was
connected with that he was talking about was how people
he was around, like in school, didn't understand or had
(27:43):
no awareness of the music he was listening to. Because
to me, that goes right along with that. It's like
you're all in school with these people, you might have
grown up with these people. Some of these people are
in the streets doing street stuff, and then some of
us are in the house learning how to play an
instrument or I was, you know, somewhere learning how to
break dance or doing graffiti like and so my experience
(28:05):
and interest would take me away from what my homies
were doing, and my homies would be in the streets,
creating the stereotype people understand my neighborhood by you know,
But I'm having this whole different experience and it's like, yeah,
I've throughout my life, I've just known so many people
who like myself, kind of have that experience where you know,
(28:27):
this environment, this environment is in you, but it's just
not a part of you in such an overt way
like it can be with other people.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, And I'm just curious to you, like, what do
you think. I don't the term weird, especially in this
political climate, is such a loaded adjective all of a sudden,
But you and I are just meaning like alternative, different,
out there music. But what do you think, you know,
raising yourself on that diet, what do you think it
did for you in those formative years of being an adolescent,
(28:55):
regardless of you as a creator.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I mean, I think it was. Actually it made my
life feel tougher at the time that I didn't have
the same sort of common touchstones that other people have.
And we would sit around and talk about music, and
you know, they'd be talking about mcavelly and I'd be
listening to MF. Doom's first twelve inches, you know what
I'm saying, Like it felt. It used to often feel
(29:17):
like socially, me and my friend group was on another
planet compared to everybody else because we weren't you know,
in my high school it was do you like Biggie
or do you like pop? Right, and we were like,
we don't care about either of these people because we're
over here spinning on our heads and listening to diamond
D And you know what I'm saying. Like, So it
(29:38):
didn't feel good at the time socially to have a
different set of interests. You know, we liked what we
like and that was cool. But when I think back
on it now, it's like, oh yeah, right, Like that's
like following our interest to that degree and finding these
(29:59):
sources of other me music. This made us who we were,
And oftentimes I get tickled sometimes when I'll you know,
see something on Facebook and it's somebody I knew from
high school talking about how they just, you know, bought
a Doom album or something, you know what I'm saying,
And I'm like, that's cute.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You have a vivid memory of you coming in, you know,
playing something, or you couldn't talk about it then, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, or not feeling like I could a lot of
times when I think back on it too, those the
distance between me and other people oftentimes was more stark
in my mind than it wasn't real life. Sure, I
just didn't feel a lot of license to discuss what
it was I was into with people because I didn't
feel like there was enough common ground.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
When I would go.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Into a record store in ninety nine two thousand, I
was in my teens and I asked, you know, hey,
do you guys have the Black Delicious aided you know
eight a GEP?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
And they, oh, you like that?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
And you could have a conversation with somebody who spoke
your language. It meant like the world got real small
and it was fun. It was so exciting, and I
I don't get that same joy in connecting with people
that way. I mean, do you find that it's different
these days with that I don't know, Like, maybe it's
(31:20):
because of just the way we access music.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I'm just like, oh, it's cool, you got it loaded
iPod or but like it just feels different. I don't know.
Maybe I'm being cynical or jaded about it.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Well, I think that part of what you're describing is
the effort that it used to take to find stuff
that wasn't on the radio. Like just that alone, the
steps you had to take to find music that wasn't
just being served to you on television on the radio.
You know, the people who were willing and interested in
(31:50):
taking those steps, they felt a kinship with each other.
And now not only do we all have every genre
of everything at our fingertips, we also all live under
a different algorithm that's giving us a different digital product
line of music every day. So now it's just so
(32:11):
much more fractured. Yeah, and it takes so much less
effort that I think it's hard to tell how much
you and this person are alike now based on having
a shared interest in a particular piece of music.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That's real. Your point is valid to like, the algorithms
that be are forcing me right now to get really
into Tom Mish. It might be working, it might not be.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
But like I appreciated our discussion in LA and it's
in one of these mini episodes where you kind of
spoke to the effect of XTC's Mummer and you were like,
that's what I'm listening to right now. And I still
try to do that, whether it's a CD, it's an
albums I'm streaming, like play it, play it again, play
it some more.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And yesterday Amir was talking about, you know, he's very.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Much on a Steely Dan journey right now, because he
was like, yeah, I feel like we're always all of
us are always on a Steely Dan journey. But that
is a habit that I'm trying to keep an integrate
and that way, the person I run into or meet
that we get to talking and they are talking about
what's currently in my ears.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Then it means a little more.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
That's real.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's real, yo, man, Thank you. I encourage everyone. I mean,
certainly if you got this far, you probably checked it
out Thundercap. But it's a great episode, it really is. Yeah, absolutely,
and more many episodes coming. The Roots have a lot
of dates this summer. I tried to get a mirror
on one yesterday. Our guest showed up early and sometimes
that throws things off. But he will be back in
(33:32):
the mix soon come.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
But in the meantime, I'm having fun wrapping with you.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Might Awesome Always A Pleasure Question Show is a production
(33:57):
of iHeart Radio.
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Laiya St. Clair
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