QLS Classic: Charlie Wilson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of course.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode
was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yo Yo Yo. What's up, y'all?

Speaker 3 (00:10):
This is Fonte Fontigelo here with this week's QLs classic.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
This week we talked to the.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Man, Uncle Charlie, the Legend Charlie Wilson, singer, songwriter, lead
vocalist for the Gap Band. Uncle Charlie Wilson talks about
signing the snoop, showing Michael Jackson the moonwalk in other ways,
his work has influenced.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Music and pop culture with the shop do We Do
We Let's Go.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
This one was originally released seven nineteen, This week July nineteenth,
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Long time ago, but still just as good. Charlie Wilson. Y'all,
q LES Classic Fonte Loo Right.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
This Suprema Suh suh, Supremo roll called Suprema suck Suck
Supremo role.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
What's the funkiest letter? Yeah a B yeah see her
d Yeah, No, no, it's Supremo roll.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
My name is Fante. Yeah, it ain't no other. Yeah.
I'm looking for my Wednesday lover.

Speaker 5 (01:34):
Supremo roll, Supremo.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
My name is Sugar. I don't take no crap. I
listened to the Gap band and I shop at the.

Speaker 5 (01:46):
Gap Agreement Supremo.

Speaker 6 (01:55):
If you were wondering what was that sound, It's just
Boss Bill Yeah, humping around so so disgusting.

Speaker 7 (02:06):
Oh, Suprema Son Son Supremo Rome.

Speaker 8 (02:12):
Yeah, and I'm coming out.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (02:15):
Uncle Charlie makes me. Why shout.

Speaker 7 (02:21):
So Supremo. Roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Roll My name is Charlie, Yeah, last name Wilson. Yeah,
that's no other. Yeah, let's burn some anb.

Speaker 5 (02:37):
Son Son Supremo. Roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo. Roll
Call Suprema.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
Son Son Supremo. Roll Call Suprema Son Son Supremo.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Roll all right. I just want you'll know from the
top that l threatened us if we use weed and
in our roll call, Ladies and gentlemen, this is another
special educational extravaganza episode of Quest Love Supreme. I am
your host Quest Love Jenkins uh and today I got

(03:12):
Team Supreme with me. We got a Fonte Cool Calculac Evans,
a Fonticicelo in the house.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
We have the mic Master Steve Funk you up. Frasier
aka Sugar Steve Hey sugar Steve. That's right, That's that's you.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Now, I'll take it.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
We can't forget a boss man over here. He's a
William Knuckles, Samwich Carter AKA, and last but not least,
we got the very lovely like Margaret AKA Clyde.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Rounding out the team.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Are our guest today, I will say, is simply without peer,
Ladies and gentlemen, Uh, no words will really ever describe uh,
the magic that exhumes from this man's voice anytime he sings.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
He's Uh.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
He's basically the six star General of vocalization of his
generation of A.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah he is.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know, he's literally inspired and you know he has
R and B children all over the map, on and
off the books. You name them from Aaron Hall, r Kelly,
Wynie Marsh the Boys to men genu Wine uh h town, Yes,
just name them literally, Uh, these are his children. He's
the one time member of one of the baddest funk

(04:35):
bands ever of the seventies and the eighties, the Gap Band.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
He's still criminally under praised. Uh, still operating now better
than ever. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the greatest Charlie
Uncle Charlie Wilson.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Wow, man, I've.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Been waiting for this moment. I don't know if it
feels like every episode. Of course, he was gonna start with,
I've been waiting for this moment, Yo, not for real,
I mean, but thank thank you for coming on the show.
I'm going to ask you the one question I'm certain
that you've been tired of answering your whole career, which is,
how in the world is Tulsa, Oklahoma home to one

(05:21):
of the funkiest people of all time.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I grew up That's where I was born, in Oklahoma City,
and I think, oh, I thought it was Tulsa. It
was Oklahoma City, which is eighty miles away. My mom.
We were just over visiting my grandmother, her mom, and
then I just she just actually just delivered right there
in Oklahoma City and we ended up going back to
the next day. You just cleaned it off, yeah, man, So,
I mean I went to school and Tulsa, Oklahoma from

(05:49):
from kindergarten all the way and to high school and
then went from there to Linkston. But but Tulsa's where
I grew up, and I went to school there, and
it's great.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
How well the history that I know of Oklahoma, especially
the history of black people in Oklahoma from the Black
Wall Street period to even now, Like Oklahoma is one
of the states that I don't necessarily think of black folk.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Being in.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I mean, maybe I'm ignorant of that fact, but I mean,
was there a high black population even despite the clan
presence of the Jim Crow area? And was there a
high presence of that? Like how did you even manage to?

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Oh? We had? Was the N word was used quite
easily there. I was growing up little boy. You couldn't
go in I remember this, running into Woolworths. We pulled
up on the side and I just opened up the

(06:54):
door because the milksheck stand was like you know, the
ice cream stand, which you could see it through the
room the door. So I just jumped out and ran
before we can get out, and they was like, don't
go in that door because we had our own interest.
He's supposed to go in the negro entrance. And so
my dad pulls up so he didn't. We could just
get out so we could go around there, but he couldn't.

(07:15):
That's the one way street, so he couldn't turn to
the right. So we got out and I just ran
through that door, the first door I seen, because the
ice cream stand is there, you know. So when I
got out, I just ran the door and they were
screaming out to me not to go in there, but
I just ran and jumped up on the stool that
spins around, and I was spinning around, and the white

(07:36):
guy had his little white hat, white uniform. And by
the time my mom and then got around to the
other door and they was coming to new it was
gonna be something because I went in the wrong door.
So they was running and man, that that man, I
think he had his hand back and my mama was screaming,
don't you do it. And I remember when I looked back,
they was running. She was dropping purse and everything. And

(07:58):
my dad said, you'll draw back, nub and so he was.
They was. He was getting ready to hit me, call
me a little the inward little boy, and oh man,
it was terrible. I was frightening the death. That was
all I wanted to was, you know, a milkshake. I
ain't no difference. And so that was the episode I
will never forget.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
And that environment was was always chose you.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
That and oh yeah, you had your own interests and
and and and you had your own uh you know,
water fountains to drink out of the water would barely
come out. And the white fountains, the water was like
a crispin cleans clean, just like a waterfall. Jump it.
So I would just I would. If this one didn't
come out of go to that one. My mom would
always grab my hand and snatch me away from it.

(08:37):
But I didn't get read. I was little. I just
was you know, this one didn't work, souse. I went
to this one. It was not good, you know, somewhat,
but uh. We had some uh, some pretty good friends
that lived across the street, which was mister Reynolds, right,
and you know the work than the name rentals and
so they had the aluminum and all of that stuff

(08:59):
that so we would go and play in his yard
and it's his factory yard. And and when it was
thunderstorms or tornadoes, we would go in. We could go
in that basement, the underground. Now, when of course we
were empires from Oklahoma.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Huh the rentals wrapped the Yes, yeah, they we had
a that's weird.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
So we're now learning that all masters of the Soul
Empire had their corporation the last one. When growing up,
my dad would be standing in water like three feet
but we.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Could use it to get away from it. My mom
would not leave the house. Go ahead, I'm not going.
I'm not going to stand in no water. She was
pretty uh, very outspoken, but she wouldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Were you guys? Was it a musical household?

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Musical? Yeah? My mom played piano and she taught us
all how to play everything. So you actually play, you
play panels? Well, yeah, the first thing I learned was that,
of course, you know drums in church, so.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
You're your mean weapon always was piano drums or okay.
So as far as like it's it's just you and
your three brothers in the household, did you have more.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Siblings, have a sister? She was that too. It's four
of us, okay all together?

Speaker 2 (10:14):
So what was the at least the band environment in
your high school or your your your school period?

Speaker 1 (10:21):
What was what was that into man and band we were?
You know? Of course, my oldest brother went first. He
was through all of the schools first, and it was
my sister to follow him through all of the schools.
The brother ron Correct Ronnie was there, and then my
sister Loretta was second, then I was third, you know,
so that already set presence of you know, there was
a musical family. So when I got there, it was you, Wilson,

(10:43):
you can sing, it's just oh, here's a microphone. And
it was just like I just it was just like
that ended up being a pet, you know, you know,
the class pet, the teacher's favorite or whatever, and let
him sing. And you know, so it was like that
all the way through school. And but when I got there,
you know, I had some friends who were very gifted

(11:03):
and talented as well. So we would form our own
little group and and man, we was pretty pretty. It
was ingenious.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Was there was there a black radio presence in Oklahoma
at that time? No, So how did you I mean,
because your your voice is I mean, you just automatically
assumed that you literally came out the womb being raised and.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Braised and smothered in soul.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
But in Oklahoma, how did you receive your education and information?

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well, first of all, my mom sang better than me
at that time, you know, I was she had chops
to wiggle her voice any kind of way. And so
when I first heard little Stevie Wan, I thought it
was a girl. And I said, hey, Mom, let me
say I can beat her. I can beat her. Mom,
I swear I can be He said, we'll go us
sit down. You ain't be no girl, It ain't bet no.

(11:58):
And then I find out it wasn't a girl. Was
a little Stevie Wonder. But I was like, I can
do that. I can do that. She was like, you're
not singing the blues up in here, so you know,
so it was it was. We went next door to
hear the records of all of Sam Cook, Helberry Fonte,
anything that was going on. Because at that time, you know,
it was just one chart. There was one radio and

(12:19):
James Bryn everybody was if you got on that chart,
that means you was a superstar. It was like no
black radio. No, it was just one radio and one chart,
and all of the big artists was on coming on
down that radio station, you know, white auburat.

Speaker 8 (12:33):
Pop radio station.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
It was like pop was it?

Speaker 2 (12:36):
So you're saying that your parents forbid you to sing
secular music in my household and couldn't do that. We
had to go next door.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
My dad is a preacher, my mom was the state
Minister of music, and it's not you not doing that
and then wow, so what could you listen to? What
would they we really have any you know, wentn't too
much to listen to. I mean we have had a
record player. We hear some Heya Jackson, are you hear
some Shirley Sees or something? You know, something like that,
And of course I'll be next door and listening to
what I want to listen to because they were the

(13:06):
what they weren't in church over there, so I could
go over there and uh and listen to whatever I
wanted to them shiny records and and you know, so
I had a great time, man, it was. It was
good and upgreen with we were brought up really good,
and the music scene was, like I say, next door
was just great for me because I could hear anything

(13:27):
that was on the radio.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Okay, So besides, I know Leon Russell is from the area.
But was there I know that you guys you were
his band at one point? Correct, yes, So how did
that partnership come about?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Well, we were playing this club I think it was
about fifty May hold about fifty people, and we was
playing late nights. We started about eleven twelve o'clock and
leave out at about five o'clock in the morning. So
it was. And they came in the club one night
and I was like, who's the white boys back there?
Just cause you know? And they was back back to

(14:04):
that party and and then nobody seemed to know who
they were. And then the next weekend they came back
all hair, all slick and sitting up straight. So they
wasn't drunk this weekend. So I went to the table
and said, you want to meet Leon Russell. I was like, yeah,
where's he at? He's like right of here, and I
was like, his hair combed it so right right, he's sober.

(14:28):
So I asked him why was h why you you
came last week? You guys were pretty drunk. I said, well,
we was drunk. We just want to make sure we
heard what we heard last week. I heard it that
it wasn't a fluke. They wasn't a fluke, that we
wasn't drunk. So when I said so, what do you think,
said we heard exactly what we heard last week. This
is great.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
So were you performing as the gap? And by that
point okay, so he didn't too much like that name. No,
he was trying to make us change it.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
What year was that? I was in the early seventies
some time, I think seventy one seventy two. So where then.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Okay, so this is like right when a song for
you was just starting to Yeah, it's somewhere now. But
so we was starting to make a name from so.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
We were and he just sort of like, we said,
you want to go to the studio. So we went
to the studio and and checked him out. We played
a little bit. It was you know, quite late. We
was just you know, recorded to about ten and eleven
something like that, and when finally went home, went to sleep,
but and uh he had a show coming up, and
the invited us to the show. And I went to

(15:29):
see his show, and and uh he after the show,
he said, what did you think? I said, Man, your
band weak, my band to kick your band?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Uh he said really I was like yeah. So he says, okay,
he went to the studio and he says, well, following
over the studio, he gave us about I don't know,
five or six albums here we'll learned these albums. Learned this,
I said, what songs? Every one of them on all
of the albums. But see Py previously had told us,
which was what was the greatest things is the beginnings.
It's the beginnings and the endings of songs. What people remember,

(16:08):
They won't know what's in the middle of whatever if
you can get them in the front, and you got them.
So what we did is we just learned all of
the intros of all of the songs.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
You know what I'm saying. We just stopped playing to
him where we went.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
You know, he was fast enough to follow him, and
so he started off on one and then he went
to a whole different album and we just like and
had the keys that so and so when he when
he started playing the different keys, we just followed, looked
and followed the intros. And then then he just stopped
and looked at the site. You gotta be kidding me.
It's like, man, what else you want to do is nothing?
I'm good, he said, So let me. Can I ask

(16:42):
you a question? I said, yeah? He said, can I
put a drummer with your band? And can I put
another guitar with your band? I said, let's go, And
so he fired his other band and then we was
there and uh, just killing killing really and you on
keys for that I was on keys and I was
up dancing which he didn't like a lot. I was
about that was dangerous. I was young, twenty one, fast

(17:03):
feet and and and and jumping on his piano. I
would break all his his head help and steal the
the microphones and I would jump up on this piano
and jump down doing the split and all kinds of
crazy stuff. And he started taking the songs away from me.
And because I was stealing this show.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
That's similar to uh, Jimmy Hendrick steal in the spot,
like from Little Richard broh YEA yeah, yeah yeah Little
Richards still gotta go, bro, I can't have that yeah steal.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
So how long was it until?

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Did you guys stay with him until you recorded your
debut record in seventy seven, the one before when you
went to uh.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
No, we was we was him. We did. We did
one album on Gap and we did which sold about
maybe sixteen records in the neighborhood. And then we then
we did I stopped all that jazz album with him,
and and then and he wanted to He wanted me
to to They wanted me to leave the band and

(18:05):
uh and so they was and Elton John was coming
out and they wanted me to to to to take
go after him and I was like, because my brother's coming.
They was like, I just want you and I was like, no,
that's okay.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
So even then, did you guys like have a pack
like we're going to be a man and were did? I?
I was the pack leader with that vibe. I don't
know what everybody else's motivation.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Was, motives were for me, I was like, let's stay together.
And I was the only one that thought out that
was me. And I'm the one saying less you see
what I'm saying and uh, And I don't think they
really really didn't get that for so many years time out. Yes,
you guys played on stop all that jazz. Yes, if
you look at the end. Wait a minute, I have

(19:01):
that record, I think now I look again, I'm the
one that the little skinny one over him.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
That's me closer to him.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Wait, I'm about to tell Steve.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
You wouldn't know it, Steve, because there's a bunch of
Africans on the front cover, or I did not know
that was that's all of us.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
My brother's in the band, that we all all of
us and the white girl and other ladies that that
was the background singers, all of it was all of us.
Now I gotta go to Philly to find that record.
It's I have it.

Speaker 9 (19:25):
When when Leon Russell passed recently, I went out pretty
much part the entire catalog on vinyl, and uh, that
record stood out and not not because of the Africans
on the the music tell the truth the music.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
That that's that's a superb. Yeah, it's a great record.
Yeah yeah, wow. Okay, I did not know now which
one of you I think.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
I think I'm the ones right behind him, the most
skinny ones right closer to him.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I was young, quite I think that's me.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
I think that's me.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Right, Oh, look at the baby. Okay, all right, So
I could assume that all this activity happened inside of Oklahoma.
Mm hm, So where does the association with Lonnie Simmons
come into play? Am I to assume? Form storry to

(20:22):
hang on the most obvious question? I know the answer,
but uh, Gap, of course is the abbreviation for Greenwood, Archer,
and Pine. Yes, why were those particular three streets chosen
as the name of the band that.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Was black Wall Street? And all of the black owned
businesses or were very rich black people entrepreneurs, bankers, hotel, owners.
Everything was just black owned and very very rich. And
they had their own bus lines, they owned caf service,
they had their own everything. And on Greenwood Archer was

(21:00):
in this way, Pine was running this way, which made
an h so we was called a greenwod Arch and
Pine Street everything and it was just super barber. Anything
you can any business today was there in that particular area.
And they didn't need anybody or anything. They ran their
own thing and just just or Tulsa just didn't like
that to have these black all these black rich people

(21:22):
and didn't didn't use any other system, didn't use their system.
They had their own system. So they burn them out.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
So after that initial burning, was there ever an attempt
to resurge it throughout time in history. I think I've
only been to Oklahoma maybe once or twice. They tried
to rebuild and they burned them again.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Whoa damn. Yes, when did the rebuild. It was in
the twenties. After they burned it the ash, they tried
to rebuild again a few years later and just burn
them out again. As simple as that. It's like, no,
you it was it was too. It was too they
didn't need the outside world. It's like they didn't need
the outside Tulsa for anything. They had their own community,

(22:02):
own everything, and so that was like the help was
being taken from the white world, is what I'm trying
to say. But I you know, cutting myself up. Yeah.
So they they had their own system. The cabs went everywhere,
their buses went everywhere, you know, all of the grocery
stores and banks. Everything they had didn't have to bank

(22:24):
with Nope, they use their own banks.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Can I assume that your parents and your grandparents and
before then were they all in Oklahoma at the time.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Grandmother my mother was a very very very very little child.
She was born in twenty three stores around that time.
So my grandmother knew about it really well and told everybody,
but she they weren't allowed really to talk about it.
It was like a hush hush really oh yeah, because

(22:53):
you know, that was too much information because the way
they the way they burned everybody out, and it just
wasn't you're not supposed to talk about it. Wow, Yeah,
you could end up somewhere cut up in a sack
or somewhere missing because there was so many people missing
and they never found those people that could see and

(23:13):
actually say, you know, what was really going on because
there was police coming to houses and you know, and
and just get doing away with them families because getting
away with it. Yeah, they're getting away with it. So
it was pretty bad.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well, I knew that Singleton's uh Rosewood was semi based
on it. I mean it's not, but he said that
he borrowed, you know, bits of history from uh the
blood from from the Black Wall Street experience. So, uh,

(23:50):
how does Lonnie Simmons come into the picture and you
guys move into la It was years later. We actually
kind of was so heartbroken that we were trying to
figure out what we're gonna do because I mean, you know,
we've been on.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Tour with the guy. We was the band, we cut
the records, and we just thought everything was gonna blossom
from that platform and it just didn't work out that way.
And man, I was just so hot, so heartbroken, and
the band was kind of like just nervous. I said, Okay,
we went to California. We came out to Los Angeles
and we was bumping around in there for a year

(24:28):
just trying to figure out what. We ended up on
Tattoo Records, which was a subsidiary of R. C A
at that time. We tried m C A our over
there with Quincy Jones at the A and M Yeah,
which was we did a single a deal and I

(24:49):
was trying to get with him, but of course he
had you know, he had brother Johnson and all that stuff.
Your hands was full, so we ended up we ended
up with Tattoo Records, and it's just okay did okay
was not that that much.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
So Tattoo Records was real label because I remember when
Shaka Khan first signed her deal with Warner Brothers, at
least for the first two records, Tattoo Records was on it.
So who ran Tattoo I can't remember, but they had
a deal through Warner or yeah, I think so, or

(25:24):
just whatever label would was playing. Yeah, okay, I see,
it's actually weird. It's like confession time.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
So even though.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
At least by the second album with the Oops up
being a national single, when I first heard of you,
I thought you were a chef because there's a feature
one of your first features and Ride On magazine wasn't

(25:57):
yes trying to cook eggs? Yo? So like this is
the thing in I mean now, I mean, you know,
millennials are very fortunate now to get you know, a
plethora of information on their favorites via the Internet. But

(26:18):
you know, in nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty, you really
truly had three outlets if you're going to make it
as a black person, Git Jet, Ebony and Ride magazine.
I mean occasionally black stars they had a.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
What CPIA black beat.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Was okay, but yeah, in right On magazine they did
this this layout of of Charlie Wilson in the kitchen,
like but like a very extensive, like twenty photo of
you know, first, I take the cinnamon and.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yo, he made breakfast.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yo.

Speaker 8 (26:57):
I told my mom like yo, this and like wait,
we had what was for breakfast?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I mean he made a traditional breakfast. I forgot now,
But like I was doing the cinnamon and my friends
still like tell you what, Like in my head, I
wasn't connecting the oops up side your head guy with
this is Wilson.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
I mean he got a clean feather.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
He looked like Philip Ingram from Switch, Like he's feathered out, smooth,
smooth go tea.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
I thought he was a chef. So you know, like
do you remember I remember the shooting, I remember burning
my hand. I was in the pancakes and my hand
was too close to and I remember going up and
I was and they caught the picture with my mouth
because I was turned.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I did that. Yeah, I gotta give myself a reggae sorry,
real show.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Really, I burnt my hand and I did that.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
See and yeah, you've probably been like, ain't nobody gonna
read this? Why can I just talk about my new
single see Cynthia Hornet's Yeah. So well, I was gonna say, uh,
what was?

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Because I know that in Los Angeles that time period,
I mean, you can either roll with Clarence Avont or uh,
Dick Griffy, Right.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
You know, I don't know what Barry Gordy's vibe was.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I mean I know that his sister Iris Gorya was
sort of taking over the the reins of Finding Acts
at Motown between like seventy five and eighty five and
with Lonnie Simmons, So at least, what what was the
initial like, how did you guys hook.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Up with him? And it was me I hooked up
with him, and I said everybody the band just kind
of fell apart and they was everybody after nothing worked?
You know, the Tattoo record, that thing didn't work, and
so everybody was like, Okay, we was in Los Angeles
a whole year, and you know, those guys took a
leave of absence and I didn't know what a leave

(29:10):
of absence was. I quit my job. I quit my job,
and so did my oldest brother. He quit his job
because we was basically trying to do this thing for real,
and everybody just.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
You know, how do you Yeah, I was gonna say,
how do you survive?

Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's it's a do die. It's it's like, you know, man,
it's we I had cereal and water and uh, you know,
whatever breakfast would be. And we stayed fifteen in a
one two bedroom apartment with a lady who already had
four kids. And we were all on the floor. Yeah,

(29:50):
we was all on the one bathroom. We was all
on the floor. We was in the jungle there. And
it's like she must have believed in Harrison. Yeah, she
was a connection. I went to school with her two
of her kids, and we were very close and uh,
and that was the connection we had in Los anges
because they moved from Tulsa to Los Angeles. So when
we was coming out, we told him we were coming

(30:11):
and she said you come stay here. It was just
too many of us. And now I think she got
almost got kicked out her apartment because we was there.
We all rehearsing in that apartment. Man. We played down
by the food and blew out the circuit system trying
to get a man who owned the building.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
That birthday party. He come back to.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Jacket boom, he was like, get out, you don't get out.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
He was already mad at the woman. So that one
just blew it.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Get out.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Wow. So that that initial band, h, I guess you
got to get your first soul training appearance in seventy nine.
That initial band migrated from Tulsa.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
To know that the band didn't make it. That meant
that our that band did never make it to no
TV shows, no other records, so none of that. So,
like I said, I met Lannie and and his club
and uh because d J Rogers was there doing those
times and and and of course DJ used to pull

(31:14):
me on stage and and let me sing and and
like that. Yeah, the crowd club before it was was
at the Total Experience Club and where a lot of
Chaka Khan dramatics everybody used to play the Total Experience
nightclub everybody that was anybody played his club.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say because I think even priors,
uh that Niggas Crazy album was was was.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, it was. It was taped. There was a nightclub too. Yeah,
it was his had a night his nightclub. That's the
way he was. He was known for that and mm hm.
Him and Dick Griffy were cool. You know. I also
played that they were cool.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
But if you said him and take her for cool,
then that.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
It was like it was.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
It wasn't cool to that part.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
I mean, was he a nurturing guy or was he
shug Knightish Lonnie Lonnie Lonnie was Uh, it was I
want to say in the category maybe of a shure.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
The night he was could have been the first one.
But he was very a smooth one. He didn't get
if you got it upset, he wouldn't come get you
though he raised his voice. He just took action. Whether
the guys around him would because you know, it was
like and it would just be like that. But uh,
we that's how we started. It was from me and him.
It was our relationship that we did this whole thing about.

(32:44):
He would give me a contract or not keep it
a week and I give it back to him and
he keep it. He opened it and would be signed.
I don't know what that's saying. We did that for
a month two months, and but he was like, man,
whence you come? Because he heard me saying right and
it was like dude, that voice right there. And I
won't say what he said about the other artist that

(33:06):
was that, but he was like, dude, me and you
that we could make this happen. And I was just like, okay,
whatever I said. I just got to get my brothers
out here and so and he was like how many.
I was like it's two. So he says, okay, go
get them. So at the time, worre uh?

Speaker 2 (33:25):
I guess like Robert Goody Woodfield and Yarborough people's were they.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Becoming part of the family. Oh you have them too.
I brought them. I found found everybody that was on
that label. I did. Wow, it was me who got
brought everybody. He brought nobody. It was me brought everybody.

Speaker 8 (33:45):
That what you get for that?

Speaker 1 (33:47):
I was experienced, That's all you got. It was indeed
a total experience. That's what that was. But they went
in Texas and I I was on the road and
I went to this club and I seen y'all brow
on people's and up and I a friend of mine

(34:07):
that was was connected on the total experience side and
name was Rudy Taylor at that time, Rudy Taylor. And
I asked Rudy to get on the phone and called
line right away, and he called him. I said, I
got a group just just incredible, and I think we
should sign him like tomorrow, and he was like, well,
I said, I gotta go. You do it or not,
but they gonna end up with somebody else. And then

(34:29):
and he asked Rudy, Rudy how good He said, man,
you know, if Childie's Ears is good, and I'm telling
you they're good and they sing and live at the
night club. So he put me back on the phone.
He said, okay, man, you know, I was just tired
of just waking up. So if they're good, I signed them.
I said, okay, you need to sign them. And then
Goodie came right after it, you know, so it was
all friends and so I just put them all in there.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
So you know what I mean is that at one
point in time, if you had good ears and something
sounded good, it was worthy of getting signed, Like, not
once did he say, well, you know, does the girl
look good like what she looked like?

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Our market? No signed him.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Have you had someone that he passed on that eventually.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Made it or he didn't have anybody? No know what
I'm saying. Was there somebody that, oh that he didn't
try to bring to the fold that he didn't want? Yeah? No,
there was nobody that I brought that he didn't want.
I mean, he just It's like I had a guy
named Dorian Williams who who the actor? No, okay, yeah,
his name is Paul Williams actually, but we called him

(35:35):
Dorian and he was it was like Luther Vandros at
that time. And it was like and I said, this kid,
but everybody he didn't It was afraid of of knocking,
Like if I was on the stand, something was gonna
knock me off the stand. But I wasn't looking at
it like that. I'm like, this guy can sane. You
need to just get it done. So we did the
album on him, and did an album on on some

(35:58):
other actual that I had, and it just didn't put
the effort. Okay, yeah, he just put the effort in.
So at that time, he was like rolling in money
above above ground, so you know, it was nothing under
the table was all it was all up. So he
was like, whatever, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
So I have to ask how influential was Funkadelics. Let's
let's take it to the stage album to.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
You, because I feel like, you know, eighty seventy nine
to eighty was a transitional period that was really hard
for a lot of the seventy bands to cross over
and to maintain, like, you know, Ohio players imploded. Uh,
you know, at least a lot of the lead singers
of particular acts.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Have left for solo careers, and then the left the
left behind group members imploded.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
But you kind of just took the the p funk
absolutely uh uh, I'll say baton and kept it alive.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
And so what was was there any feelings on their
end of you guys sort of.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Taking their their modus operandi and and actually running good
with it.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
It was a couple of guys and and and the
band that you know, if say, if you come up,
George will call you up on the stage and if
they don't like it, they started doing the waltz, you know,
and so George made him stop doing the wats one
time I came on stage, but I already knew what
the Walts was because I was going with one of
the girls. It was from the from the Parliament Pocademics,
so I used to go with doing silver now yet, so.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
I already knew what that whole thing was.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
But so when the wa what's the wall, just like
he's washed up or whatever, and so George would just
go right over there and just don't do that. Don't
do that on him. So everybody stops and I'll just
take the mic and just rip the place apart. And
then I think after I I did that one time,
they was like, oh, he's not He's not a whimp.
But see, we was on the road with with with
the Parliament Funkadelic for years before we really had the

(38:09):
hit record, and then after we came off that's what
side your head was sort of bomp boring, But the
chant came from a crowd that was in Pittsburgh and ourselves,
you know, but they was chanting something, but the rhythm
was the same. So we came back and put the
oops up side the head because they you know, yeah, yeah,
I was going to say it was they was chanting

(38:29):
something and it wasn't what We couldn't understand it, so
we actually chant chant the the the oops up side
your head say oops, because they were saying gap band.
They was I think they were saying gap side to head,
gap band something like that. It was weird, but it wasn't.
It didn't have the real, the perfect rhythm. So we
had to go back and get that rhythm and put

(38:51):
it to that. But we were on a roll with
them for a long time. Man. And and of course
we was watching them every night, and George became very
protective and Bootsy and them became very protective of us.
And they made a push back and give us room
because I didn't have no room. I said, I can't.
I don't have any room to work. So Georye said,
I haven't been seeing here what you mean. I said, Man,

(39:11):
I ain't got no room. So they said, I'll make
him push back. So they pushed the stage back for us,
and uh and Bootsy saw us a couple of times
and then he'd give us some pinners and stuff. So
of course, quite naturally, man, that funk that they had
was infectious and so it rubbed off. And I just
loved them, and uh, of course I took some of
it and ran with it. What were those audiences? Like, man,
it was incredible? And see Bootsy was so strong that

(39:35):
that he was kicking George's butt. Okay, so George sometimes
had to let Boosie close really yeah, because man, he
would Bootsy would stump all over Parliament. Funkadeltic and they
had the same horn sections and everything. So but Bootsy
it was Boots's band.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
So so speaking of which, and we kind of mentioned it,
what were your feelings to Uptown Funk and how did
you because you know, I mean there have been think
pieces on these twelve artists could also get a piece
of the right, but you guys.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Did it, so technically they had to give it to me.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Are you a Grammy winner because it was a Record
of the Year or is that only for Song of
the year If you're listened to his song, right, song
of the year?

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Good song? Okay, So it wasn't song. It was record
of the year. That's for the perform it was. It
was my I remember my manager, he's in there now.
He was. I mean, he he calls such a stink.
That's what good managers do. He called a good manager.
He calls such a stink man on everything, and so
I think they was about tired of looking at him
and saying that he was good. He went straight to
the top with it, and and then it was like

(40:45):
then they just like, uh, well, we can't well song
of the year whatever it is, So they moved things around,
and so he was just saying, it's not fair. It's
not fair to the Gap band that they don't get
the you know, recognition, the recognition of it, and so
I remember that part then. So but anyway, man, it was, uh,
it was I reckon simple and they.

Speaker 8 (41:06):
Was chatting it and so hey, so it came to
a quicker conclusion than the Robin Marvin Gaye situation.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
We got paid for whatever. He's happy, you know.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Nineteen eighty also brought another uh what I would assume
for you a bucket list pairing, uh you singing background
on I ain't going to stand for it with Stevie.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
So I mean, I'm just assuming that this guy's your hero. Yeah,
assuming we can assume that. You don't have to assume
no more. It's one of my heroes.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
So what was that experience like for you to work
with Prime Stevie, especially when, like I know how some
artists could have. I've seen artists ego trip and kind
of shun out of anyone that's remotely capable of out

(42:10):
seeing them or outshining them. And always wanted to know
because there's two versions of I Ain't gonna stand for it.
The version on forty five goes about maybe thirty seconds
longer than the album version. And I was always impressed
with the fact.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
That you.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Saying so disciplined when you could have easily just started,
you know, your vocal acrobatics.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
What was that whole experience like recording with them? Let
me tell you that is not the version at all.
That that's not the best version. There's another one, now,
the version that we actually did in the beginning you
knew what's coming. Yeah, that version that he did, he
couldn't get that. We recorded that version in botic sound,
which is Ike Turner study. Wow really and that version

(43:03):
with the wo wo walk oh man, that one right there,
he had the thing around his neck to make himself
a microphone and we all singing around him. That was
the version. And I used to answ him, where's that version?
He said, I couldn't couldn't couldn't get the version of
the tape back from from Ike. I think that the
it was I was looking for my gun.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Said, yeah, we couldn't get that.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
He couldn't get that, but anyway, it was something I
never get got the real story from why we didn't
use it. So he was trying to recreate it after,
like years later, to try to recreate it. I said, where, Yeah,
when was the first one?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
There?

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Man, I can't now, I can't remember the year now
i'm a little It came out in eighty, No it was.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I assume he wasn't doing nothing between seventy six and eighty.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
It was eighty. Then it came out. We did it.
We did it in seventy nine, seventy nine in the version.
I'm thinking something like that late night. How did you
meet Stevie? Yeah? I met Stevie from the album from

(44:15):
when I was with Shelter with Leon Russell. We went
out to Los Angeles to mix the record Magician's Holiday
and he was still in the record plant, just running
over time like you always do, right in there and
he was a begone and he was our and a
half two hours. So they had the record and this
guy Spike, who was one of inch Steve's engineers. He

(44:39):
had heard the record, so they had told Stevie about
this guy singing. So Steve heard the record and that
was my first time meeting. It was in seventy something,
seventy five someone like that. But anyway, I sit down.
He sit me at the piano with him, and he
started playing and he asked me sang this, and I
sang that, and he sang the part another part, and
we was going off each other like that, and then

(45:00):
he was like, hey, man, you're bad man. I like you, man,
what is that like? What was that like? For you? Believe?

Speaker 2 (45:11):
I couldn't even say the part, man, I couldn't even
get my licks out.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Man. I was shaken and like a nervous, like you know,
that was my first time and we've been friends ever
since then, That's what's up. Yeah, I just was just
nervous and uh and uh you know, so that was
my first time meeting them. And then, like I said,
it happened again and he wanted to get being on
that record and then and we couldn't do it at

(45:35):
the time. We was on tour. He offered Center a plane,
a jet and and Uh, of course everybody was nervous.
I ain't get on no chet trying to get rid
of Charlie Wilson.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Try to get rid of the Charlie Wilson. Stupid people,
what they think about it.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I was young at the time, man, but these guys
are they're probably getting hide confused. I'm like, dude, he
just want us to sing on the record. Get out
of here. So anyway, that next uh, that next two
days later, I just popped on a jet and uh,
and then everybody followed me, and I guess right after that,
I'm gone, I see y'all going to stay with Steve
and so I got back and did the vocals and uh,

(46:20):
but I heard I said, where's the other version? And
he was like, that's a long story. I was like, okay,
I think anything.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Wait, uh, you know what it's everything's coming to me
now as you're talking. I gotta go back to p funk.
Can you please tell me the origin of new Spaceship?

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (46:45):
What's that an old track that you sang on? Because
there's no way in hell and we're referring to new
Spaceship on the.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
On the George Clinton, George Clinton People All Stars awesome,
power fully operational mothership.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
But they called it T A T A old P
whatever the initials opp? Whatever the initials opp.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Dude, when that record came out, you know we were
skimming through it, and you know I do the occasional
ten second audition, and dude, I'm saying like, I don't
even know if you remember the Steve, but when we

(47:27):
were recording uh Voodoo with D'Angelo, it's all he listened to. Man,
it was like a where did like was it a
track that George just gave you to sing over or just.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Me I personally, I don't even remember.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
You don't remember New Spaceship. I don't remember it. Oh
Jesus Christ, here let me see, ladies and gentlemen, this
is new Spaceship. I have to hear it from the
ABC threep George, George Clinton, the p Funk All Stars.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yes, uh on course of Supreme right here. This is
one of my favorite songs ever. I remember.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Now, okay listen, let me tell you the story. Are
you ready to hear the story?

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yes, okay, listen, he is ready.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
That was my version. We was talking about sly Stone.
This is how so I'm going in. I'm like, I'm
marking slide.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
We're talking about this, and so he said, man, Charlie
Whistle does a great version of slid Stone. So I
was I was like, when I'm around slide back of
the day, this is how he would be. And that's
where that vocal came. And I started doing that. So
all of that and they kept it. They kept all
of that. And then because that's how we was doing
it in at the beginning, before he got anything, I'm
marking sly and then I turned to do my own

(49:05):
thing with the with the with the Charlie Wilson thing
around it. So it was like, man, this is a
great some great ship right here. I think I'm gonna
keep this. And so he did, and I wasn't paying
attention to it. I was, I'm gone, I do my
thing and I'm born out. I'm done. What year was that?
I can't remember the year? Well, I know that's when
it came out, But was it the old song that
they had? It had to be it had to be.

(49:29):
Uh had to be a ninety four or ninety four
because I got but that just sounded like sev.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
I'm like, it sounds like Jerome Big Brilly on drug
backing track.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, well, we was recording it for that particular we
was trying to get something. He was trying to get
this thing and y'all got it and we got and
we just started I started acting like slide. We was
laughing about that, and uh, he said, go Howard Sly singing,
and I was just like, that's how I started swat
that the voice that sounded like that I was marketing.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
So I've had the pleasure of wait wait that songs
from the nineties.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Steve Steve.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Steve was one of the engineers on d'angelo's Voodoo.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
So like during the.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
First month of us recording out Electric Lady.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
D had the CD.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
George gave it to him before it came out, and
that's all he played for me all the time, and
like we were just wow, flabbergasted, like flabbergasted at you
guys nailing classic p funk in the nineties.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Twenty years after that, after that time period, I just
I just I just was going, uh uh sometime I
have a problem moderating of then. I was, you know,
you put yourself, he puts us too much on your
on yourself, put too much on yourself. And I just

(51:05):
never never liked the fact that the ad lives. It's
just they just want me to just just be just
be Charlie Wilson whatnot.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
I mean, it was like and so it was like, okay, uh,
what what is the what is the what's the title?

Speaker 6 (51:22):
And what?

Speaker 1 (51:23):
It was like, No, you just you just you just
give me some little whatever.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Yeah. So I was just like that.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
But then I noticed that everybody always liked that. So
it's always either it's just always just go off the
top of the head with feeling. But this is the
thing though, it's real.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
I'll be one of the Okay, I'm all, I'm one
of those people. That's okay, I took I took you
for granted, because the thing is that, I mean, when
you grow up in a time period and you just
see all this greatness, you know you do it.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
It's just that's just what he do. He's great.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
So you you've sat you've done uh the Fallon Show
with us like maybe three or four times. You sat
him with us twice, and there's one point where you're
we can clearly hear you through the vents doing your
vocal warm ups, and we're all looking at each other

(52:21):
like it it was the most It was like a
monster movie, like we just we're at the vocal event
like listening to him, and it was how do you
how do you warm up your your your your instrument?

Speaker 1 (52:43):
How do you preserve?

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Because like you I saw I saw clips of recently
to show you to hear, and like all these songs,
you're singing in the same key.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
When I was, when I was, when I was, back
when I was young, and that's still saying. I don't
We didn't change the keys for me, and everybody used
to say, man, my brother may need to change the key.
I said, man, that ain't gonna sound right. He's your
key and the ease my key. When from when I was,
when we was younger, that was in my twenties, and
that's we wrote all the stuff in those keys and
that was it. So I still sang all the keys,
the songs in the same keys, and we wrote all

(53:12):
them in. And it's like I said, it won't sound right,
might push out. I have to push to get it out.
But why would I change the keys? But but I
warm up, uh you know, nine nine nine, Then I

(53:38):
do that till till it's clear what I did break
in because clear, you have to this mucus and things
this and there. You know you study with Seth Riggs
or did Yeah, Michael Jackson, I didn't go there very long,
but I did study with him, and he told me
how the great Foster, he was the one that gave
me those warm ups and I never stopped using those

(53:59):
warm ups. And Stevie was going to him. And Stevie
used to do a with a note at the same
time minus behind. But he used to do that, but
it was more he was dead on accurate, like if
he was hitting warm up right, yeah wow, And so
I would used to try that all day. And why

(54:20):
why is seth riggsy go to guy? This guy had?
This guy was phenomenal him and his daughter too. They
were just, uh, he could warm you up and then
he could have you doing things that you didn't ever
think you could do. And I just didn't get a
chance to go back. I was devious too back in
those days, and so I started doing a lot of
other things to have going to the vocal coach. And
but he was he was just the most incrediblest guy

(54:43):
I've ever been close to. While he was warming me
up and he started doing things that I never thought
I could do, and he said, so held warm me up,
and then we got through warming warming me up. Then
he would start doing these things and he was doing
before I got warmed up, and then he told me
to do it and I would hit it, and I
was like wow. I said, see, it's just an instrument.

(55:05):
It's going to get you to do everything.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
So from a non me being an obvious non singer
barely talking, what is because I would think that if
you activate your voice for thirty five to forty five minutes,
you might wear it out. So you have to get

(55:27):
it in motion and exercise it just to keep the.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, you get it warmed up, and then after you
do the correct exercise and for thirty minutes, then you
can go and hit the notes that you want to hit.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Do you sing from your diaphragm as all singers are
supposed to.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Be supposed to do? Yeah, it comes sometimes and sometimes
are you initially singing from your throat? But at the beginning,
until I met him and then he showed me how
to well, actually they told me that taught me that
in high school and in college. But again, you know,
you're not listening to a lot of people. My mom
used to tell me that, and but this guy Seth,

(56:04):
he was telling me how how you're supposed to sing,
and and I always wanted him to come to the
studios with me and and work on my verses when
I'm doing verses while I'm saying, you know, recording vocals,
because he would do that with a lot of artists, superstars,
make sure the breathing is right going into the next
phrase and stuff.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
How do you preserve like so like after a show,
what's your ritual like after after the show is done?

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I have no rituals about nothing. Okay, scarf on your
I don't have rituals at all. And the only ritual
I have is uh, if you want to use the rituals,
it would be. My wife is the ritual. She is
the ritual. That's she makes sure that I'm warm, and
she makes sure that I'm drinking something warm. And then

(56:51):
my guy at temporal, he's he keeps some warm stuff
with me, hot water and honey, and and that's it. Man.
And I when I get off the stage, I do
the wrong thing. I'm talking loud and I'm hollering and
I'm going crazy out. It's never I'm talking soft. You know,
I come from one side of the family who talks
loud and my father's side, my mom's side talks loud

(57:13):
and my father's side talks off. And so I just
stepped the mom's side. I'm just loud.

Speaker 8 (57:17):
I was just gonna say, this is not like a
manual for all singers, because you're you're blessed.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Nonethe less.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yes, so it's not an arefa the Luther thing where
you have to turn off and well.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Let me tell you something about about air conditions. It'll
rip you up. And if you got to saying I
wouldn't be serious. You're serious.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
This is the one thing that Tarik and I Tarik
is the It could be the middle of summer and
he'll make the driver turn off the air conditions and
make us all suffer in the car. And he's like,
I won't have a voice for a showtime. Absolutely not,
that's a cycle whatever. Tarika hasn't smoked in about five

(58:00):
years now. Really yeah, okay, listen, that is absolute truth
right there. You do not you want to have the
temperature in the car off just at.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Least seventy five degrees wow, Okay, at all times if
you want to sing if you want to have good voice. Now,
if I had to sing the night, I wouldn't be
in this room. Oh you wouldn't. Okay, Now it's too
cold in here, I see, but it's you. It'll tear
you out. You notice I'm kick clear in my throat

(58:31):
because the cold air is get into it. But I'm
just talking. So but it's not just.

Speaker 8 (58:35):
Because a recording studio.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Yeah it's not.

Speaker 8 (58:38):
And it's always colding.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
You know. When I'm in recording, I ain't. We don't
have that. You're gonna shut that down, so we won't
be doing vocals in that studio, not Willson.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
So by the time that uh gap in three, four
and five come out, when you guys are really fully operational,
well I always wanted to know because when I when
I spoke of the let's take it to the stage
character with you're like provoking people like Dann suckling' you
know whatever. Yea, What was your relationship like with your

(59:13):
band contemporaries back then? Like were there rivalries with comfunction
or or you know all these other bands like yeah,
I'm gonna show y'all what's up and you.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Know that sort of thing every single night.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
So in hindsight, what was the band that got under
your skin?

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Like, yo, man, we're going to take it. What it's like,
It's like this we were. It was comfunction basically because
they would put from seriously I hympathetically just throwing a
dark Kno, let me tell you why. It's because they
went put fringes on their uniforms, and it was like, okay,
you know we've been we do cowboys. We went fringes
woking home. But they wouldn't put fringes on their uniform

(59:56):
and so we were thinking, like, okay, they already you know,
they got the big records from back in the day
and all of that stuff. But it's it's we were
still like this. Uh, but we were would it come
down to stage? It was like do a die? But
the worst, the worst rivalry was Charlie Wilson and Roger Troutman,

(01:00:19):
Zapp and Gap because computer love No. Me and Roger
were like this I'm talking about when I say tight,
Me and him was like this like the brothers, his brothers,
his brothers and my brothers. They did not like me
and Roger to be tight. They did not want it. Period.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
He tell us about Larry because that's every of every artist,
of all the artists we've had on the show, that
could have told us Larry Troutman stories we've not asked,
especially with like because I know that Zapp in the
time had rivalries as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
What was it like with with the Troutman clan and
working with them? And it was great? It was, I mean,
you know, just like I said, Ma, and Roger was
so tight. It was. But Roger had the edge because
he was using a talk box and so and I
shoud tell him, is you cheating? You ain't singing out
every night? No, he was a talkbox, so, I mean,

(01:01:28):
so he was saying, he just grabbed my throat like this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Tolls. Well. He would also do tricks like he wore
the underwear that lit up and they did crazy tricks
in concert.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
So why why is it that when I want to
hear computer Love now it's I'm about to say, Gwyn Guthrie,
Shirley Murdoch singing your parts.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
There's two versions of computer Love and for some reason,
your your vocals are not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
On the they come in at the end, they come
into the ad libs even yeah, yeah, on the fade out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Why is that? Well, it's like this, Oh God. The
beginning of the relationship with that record and the way
they took basically they I went had a tape and
I played it for the total experience Lonnie, and they
was like, I ain't never hit and so wait a minute,

(01:02:30):
So uh, I said, okay, And I think he was
kind of a little upset going on clock.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
So they didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
So who told you to go? Say yeah? But anyway,
you didn't like it, I said, so you don't mind
it coming out. It ain't gonna be no hit. I
was like, okay, we didn't have a hit at the time.
So the record came out about two about a year
and a half later. Yes, it did, and from the
time I had got to cassette it was a year

(01:03:02):
and a half later. But I thought the record gonna
come out faster than it did, but it didn't. And
then when it did, it's just shooting up the charts.
But they didn't want to say featuring Charlie Wilson because
it hadn't gotten the no you know, it's no clearanton things,
so it's just me and just so I'm on there.
So it goes when it gets to like number four
or three, somewhere they sued him and made them take

(01:03:24):
my vocal off.

Speaker 6 (01:03:25):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Yeah, so and then of course they had to strap
scram around to try to get another version. And by
that time you in the top five. Man, I mean,
the record is already it's out there, beasts. And so
they put the Shirley Murdock version out and then and
it stayed there for a minute, and I think it
just started on the way because people used to the
other version. You just can't just throw another version hello

(01:03:48):
and having it, having it, having it doesn't doesn't matter
who's singing it. And no disrespect to Shirley murder because
she was killing the version she married you well that
that was. But that version was already out, you know,
and he was that version. So and it started taking
a die. But everybody always knew that record. Doesn't matter

(01:04:09):
when they stopped. But anyway, Uh, the record ended up
being such a great record. And every time Roger would
see me, if if if he looked on the side
and saw me while he was doing the record, he
would stopped the band. Boom. Okay, this record would not

(01:04:29):
be possible without this guy. It would not be possible
without this man. Right, he looking at me, and I'm like,
don't do it, don't do it without this man. So
would I further do on account three? I want you
all to help me call his name, and so I
would go up there and kick my own ass because

(01:04:50):
we had to perform after that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
So me and the man coffee together because it was
a rap.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
After that, Me and Roger come on, Yeah, we just
slaughtered the place. Yeah. When you talk about Shirley Murdoch, incredible. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
The producer for s w V, Brian Allix and the
Morgan It was a huge fan and he talks about
how his whole idea for s w V was that
he wanted to take your melody and he kind of
saw Coco as like a Shirley Murdoch and like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Week he was weak for you. Yeah, it was for Charlie. Yeah,
because we already had a song was that same melody,
We had a record already that so he took that
one and made it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Did you catch that the initial inception like this sounds familiar?
Let me tell you in hindsight, you know, I wrote
this as a tribute to you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
You are my You're my style, your everything to me.
You are my pride. So he did it so weak
at the knees as a Capitol record, so I mean,
I mean the last one of the glass Gap Band records,
and so a total experience I think seven six or
seven seven somewhere there. So he just straight took that

(01:06:15):
same melody and just I mean it, I get so weak.
But Brian wanted to write for me and we just
never got a chance to get around to that. But
he had great success with the SWV Man Good Luck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
So with Gap Band four, with with Early in the Morning,
and and and you dropped the bomb on me and
very unlikely Outstanding because it's weird because I purchased.

Speaker 6 (01:06:41):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
But I'm saying that, you know, at the time when
I when I got Gap in four, I didn't realize that,
you know, to me, Outstanding was just quality, quality filler, right.
I didn't see it as, oh, this this might be
the biggest single of his career, just like oh it's
closing side to you?

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
When did you drop the side too? Let's get to that.
But I mean, how is that when you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Wrote outstanding in your head, did you realize that this
was going to dominate every two step barbecue in the
history of black gatherings.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Of all time when that record was Yeah, I went
I we was working on that record, me and the
Drama cat Horn. When we was working on that record,
it felt so so so good to me that it
was like I couldn't believe that the vibe on it
that was that man and had so much emptiness love

(01:07:39):
that was there. It's just it was so you know,
it was it's the spacing of it was just great.
And I didn't know it was going to be around
that long, but I know it felt so good to me,
and it was sounded like the best record at that
when that album to me was sound like that was
the best record to me. But you know, and then
it just everybody started sampling and using it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Did you did you guys work on both versions, like
the remix and this album version at the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
No, so you did the remix in.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
Hindsight after the album was done, And yes, okay, that's
that's what I wanted to know. Yes, all right, I
have a question about you dropped the bomb on me. Okay,
So American.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
Music Awards nineteen eighty two, you guys are performing you
dropped the Bomb on Me. Now I'm watching this on
a small black and white television Quest Love Supreme listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
At one time, everything wasn't in plaid. Wait, don't say wow,
like you know, I'm just I remembering, all right, Oh
thank you. I thought you're trying to disassociate yourself from
my age.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Wow, At the last twenty seconds of that performance, something
so miraculous happened, and I cannot believe.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
The world didn't rave over it. I thought it was you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
I think he told me he was your trumpet player.
Someone did the moonwalk, and I'm looking at my mom
and my.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Dad, like do you see us?

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
He's walking like this is this is a year before
Michael Jackson did at Motown twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
At the very end, either was it you? Was it? Now?
I was this kid that I found. His name was
Baby Gap, and I named him Baby Gap. Okay, yeah,
because he's also dancing on Beeper Free. Okay, now it
makes sense. Yeah, okay, maybe he had the same outfit
on you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
But literally he just grabs the mic stand and he
does just the most exaggerated moonwalk, like even more exaggerated
than Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
And I was like, how's the world not seeing this
right now?

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Like why?

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
And the next day in school was like, did y'all
see this? They're like it was like snuffle up. I guess, like,
no one believe me. He was walking backwards, but from okay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Yeah, it's and the way it's like, I don't want
to deflate Michaels, but he used to come to the
shows and in the corner on the stage still and
watched and watched and watched watch baby Gap do it
and how he did it and everything, and but that
told story was never never told. So it's all y'all
did it first?

Speaker 8 (01:10:13):
That's a moonwalk battle. Then because dude from Shallamar he
claims that he created it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Too, I mean he, yes, he did. Daniels went to
this house.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
But I'm telling you, if they did it on the
American Music World, then I'm like, then they must have
been doing it a lot. Yeah, and the world must
have seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
But they That was the first time I saw a
commercial artist, not like a dancer on soul Trae or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
It was the first time it was uh nationally and national. Yes,
scene was by us, Yes, and we was the first
on that particular show. Was the first black artist to
ever have pyro as well, Yes, we had power and
the other only Somebody's had power was Kissed and then
they just were saying that we couldn't use the Pyro.
And then that's when line said, well, well why does

(01:10:58):
kiss use the Pyro? And the guy was like, m
so we're using Pyro, you ain't get the band. So
it was like one of those shook night moves and
so we so we had Pyro. It was the first
ones to have that on American musical black.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
I don't know if it's just contractual whatever, but for
some reason, Gap Being five is nowhere to be found,
like not on streaming, not on reissues. Is it was
that just like a in your eyes like a still
born child or it's party Trade was on that album
and yeah, it's like the Big Records was there and.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
I'm ready, you're ready, Like yeah, that's it's so hard
to find. Yeah, it's I don't quite no, it's just
it's yeah, it's like control it with Gold. It was
just like, is Loney Simmons still alive now or he

(01:11:55):
is still alive from my us for my knowledge, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
So does he still control the Masters and all that?

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
And that?

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Like no, so he sold it out, Okay, it's probably
through Universal. So now we gotta get to I'll Find
My Baby? Yeah, so was I Found My Baby?

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Was that a song?

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Where was it like accidental where it's like you realize, like,
oh man, I did the same song already or was
it intentionally trying to follow up outstanding?

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Well, it wasn't my idea to do that, but it
was somebody's idea. It's like, give me another of course.
And uh, and I was telling him like, dude, listen,
that record is already too big. You want to you
don't want to fool or that shoe is big. Put
your foot in that shoe. It's a sass twenty two now,
whereas Sae ten is not gonna fit. He didn't understand

(01:12:44):
what I was talking about, but he tried it, So
I tried it with him. And and uh, I don't
know if you remember the video. Do you remember the I.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Remember where someone kid was missing? They were handing out flyers.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Yeah? Yeah, But did you see the street version, I
mean while we was in the street doing thehocography. Did
you see the news clip when I got knocked out?
You never seen that, boy?

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
I see, I remember it long ago on video jukebox.
Wait you got knocked out?

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Yeah? Man, so what so so listen, we're we're we're
going down the street. All the whole group is going.
So baby Gap is flipping. He's supposed to flip, right,
so he's flipping and so when I back up, I
don't like when he comes right down on the top
of my head with his flip, and uh, man, I

(01:13:38):
was just out. I was.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
I was more embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
I was more embarrassed that I hit this concrete than anything.
And I was still on the video. I don't know
they they didn't care, but it was on the news.
It was on the news because the news cameras there
because we had shut the street down and so the
news was there and they called it on it. And anyway,

(01:14:02):
I remember laying there, uh and I was like, and
I watched everybody feet come, but I was I was
more embarrassed to get up than anything. So I just
laid there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
So, Okay, there's there's there's another song on the Gap
Being six record that I've been dying to know about,
probably Boss Bill too, not Be for Freak. I love
be for Freak By the way you do that, dude,
that was a soul trained staple. Wow, that's my song. However,
a very interesting song and an even more interesting video.

(01:14:35):
Now I had to do some purple investigation and purple
investigation in oh, I know where you're going. Well, I
forgot about this until just now. Yes, so there's a
song called Disrespectful that has a very interesting video, yes, yes,

(01:14:57):
depicting y'all killing the stage and this rather height challenged
height challenged the rock star with the bouffont and these
two big bodyguards acting disrespectful. Oh, I will never forget
this video. The second I saw Alan Leeds, I was like, yo,

(01:15:18):
did Prince and Charlie Wilson ever have beef for something?
Because what's the Have you ever seen the Disrespectful video?
It's like it's it's it's animated, it's not even lyric
it's I don't even think there's lyrics to it. It's
sort of like almost like they're there.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
Let's take it to the stage songwhere he's talking smack
And so I asked Alan Leeds, Princess tour manager at
the time. I was like, okay, So the song came
out in eighty four, I said, did something happen between
Prince and Charlie Wilson that made the song come up
like disrespectful and Alan couldn't remember. He's like, I don't know,
it's maybe Charlie wanted to sing on stage with Prince

(01:15:55):
is something?

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
What is what is the origin of disrespectful?

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
And can I assume that it was directed?

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
You had your chance chance to dance to disrespect you
won't let me on? But what happened?

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
Well, I love Prince man, we all love Prince and
this is.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
The hindsight and this song, this song is thirty years ago,
so yeah it's and so hey, man, see this beef
we can talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
I mean, we always talked about He's always like, man,
it's my favorite band and all of that. And and
then once I saw him, I treated some young kids
and and it was just like, how is it. I
was like, you're not gonna even You're not gonna even
take the picture, or you're not going I was looking.
I was like that's wrong. And then it was like

(01:16:47):
I've seen things happen, and I've seen it was like
you walk past me and don't say nothing, and you
are just like and then we're supposed to do some
stuff together and and you change your mind and it's
like I had me all hyped, and it's like, okay,
so it's like I gotta get at you. I got
I gotta gone on cut you now. I'm about to

(01:17:10):
cut you, naster because I know you. I know you
am I to cut you now, see, And so you know.
And then somebody from my clique, some crew members, he
called and I think my room was something, and some
crew members answered the phone. I had already left, and

(01:17:32):
and they said something that was to him that was
not right. And I fired those guys because when they
said what they said, I fired him right on the spot.
But they shouldn't have said that. And I think he
might have took offense to that too, so and hey man,
but anyway, but it's just we never not not not

(01:17:55):
got along. And he was just like Steve, you got
the big head.

Speaker 8 (01:18:03):
But anyway, y'all never had to come to Jesus moment
either though, No.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Not not really. I mean, we could have, we could have,
but at the time I was I was in my
disease of getting high and and it's like and he
was waiting on me, and I said, I'm coming, I
promise you. Wow, I beat up and you're coming from

(01:18:31):
jump up, coming up on my way so five minutes
turned into whatever. So when I did get there, he
was already gone and and so got me back. So
when we played the glam Slam Prince coming Down, I said, okay,
I forgot about when I was getting high, but I

(01:18:53):
was sober the ends all waiting and I think he
probably thought I was doing it on purpose. That was
not on purpose. It's like, hey, So I sit there,
looked at the door, the bodygup, still there with his headphone.
I says, coming, see hey, coming. He's notorious for that though. Yeah.
So finally I looked at the hallway and gone. Everybody
was going in the building. I was like, then, I
thought back like two years ago. I was like, uh,

(01:19:16):
you got okay. So I never got a chance to
talk to him. I sent message to him about it
after I was sober so many years. Hey, man, that
wasn't done on purpose.

Speaker 8 (01:19:25):
Man, you know that's a part of the process, right yeah, yeah,
so hey.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
And then but anyway, I would leave him alone right
now because I got cut up talking about him one time.
Fans told me up, So I don't want to go
back through that. I'm alive. I testify and tell people
that I'm always on drugs and that that that's why
I'm alive. I remember you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
Uh it was this was a couple of years ago
when Casey and Jojo had their reality show and you
were talking to them just about sobriety, and you told
them straight up, just like, listen, this is You're gonna
be out on tour and it's gonna be someone offering
you a drink and you ain't gonna be.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Able to say no, you able to turn it down?

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
How have you Because at the time when when we met,
this was years ago at the Grammys in twenty ten
and you were performing at the Pretails and when this
was when my bandformn Exchange No nominated and we met
real briefly and then you performed at the Pretails and
killed it. And I remember at the end you was like,
you know, I beat prostate cancer. I got twenty years sober,
like you was just going in. So how have you

(01:20:24):
you know, enable to tour and everything? How what is
that daily walk of sobriety.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Like for you? I got my wife with me, so
she's she's a rehab and so we Uh it's just
like and for so many years she was, I guess
known as the enemy and because she was just stopping
the don't matter family, people don't matter. How long have
you guys been married? Twenty two wow, every single day,

(01:20:50):
twenty four hours a day we were together. But it's
like it's like when she told me she would be
with me, you know, and whatever, no matter what that that.
I was young when I was heard those words, but
you know, within young being like wanting to be in
love with somebody, for real love you. So when I

(01:21:12):
finally got it, I understood it, and so I just
let her have the way of whatever it is. You know, hey, man,
who is that? Now? There's no backstage. I don't care
who it is. And so people used to come and
sneak things and hide them in my hand. I'm like, man,
I don't get high no more. I heard that, But
why are you putting it in my head? If you
heard that?

Speaker 6 (01:21:33):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
So after that, she heard me say that, so she
she cut everybody, didn't matter who it was. Kids don't matter.

Speaker 6 (01:21:39):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Now, y'all right?

Speaker 8 (01:21:43):
Because a tribune or is she writing songs? You guys
write songs together, and then she writes because the record
she's like every.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Song, Yeah, she's writing with me. Now she's like, because
I sometimes I have problems, you know, trying to figure
out what I want to say, and she's she has
something used to say and she writes them from me.
And like if I'm singing the vocals or something, and
I'm coming and I'm I'm going down, I'm getting my
things on. I'm really I'm getting going into it as

(01:22:12):
far as I'm concerned. Then I look up and she's
talking to the engineer and I'm looking. I'm like, dude,
you're not shopping, so you push the button. Man, we
got to start over. I'm like, start over, man, you're serious.
She's like a man, Hey, talk to your wife. She said,
you ain't put it down right enough.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
So I'm like, wow, that's the better half of you.
Bet that's bet half.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
So that was the first time when I first heard that,
I was like, wow, can I just get warmed up first,
I'm just getting warmed up. She's like, no, you're gonna sing.
You sang so.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
So obviously, as music fans and geeks that we are,
you know, a lot of the stuff that we're talking
about with you, you know, these are like the highlights
of our lives. But I mean, for every person's highlight
that could have been your personal hell. How you know
I've read the the part of your life when you

(01:23:13):
were homeless, and like how how does it get to
that point where it's just like like what was that
first night light, that first night like for you?

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
When well, first of all, you don't probably you don't
thank you that you're homeless, conseider, You might be at
somebody how smoking all night. You might be somebody. You're
just there and some some some spot. You know what
I'm saying, You there, and then then the next day
you ain't even like nowhere to I left that spot,
so I ain't got well I'm gonna go. So you
just there and because of who you are, you could

(01:23:46):
be there, uh follow me or don't even register that
your you don't register that way until you feel guilty.
And you're gonna leave out of there right now. If
you leave out of there, now where you're going? So
now at nighttime you can probably get in any of
those doings dope door dope pimps, who's ever doors because
they know who I am and so and after you

(01:24:07):
think you can wear your welcome at thin, then you
go somewhere cton and pretty soon at the end of
the day. Then where you're going to because I didn't
move by day. It was at a nine night, you know,
and so and so if you left there, then where
you're going. So after you found the found some cool
place to lay down and nobody's looking at you. So

(01:24:29):
that's where you did it. Off. Somebody was homeless and
they had some perfect spot in between some shopping carts
and put that brick there and put a little piece
of carpet and they said, go in there and put
stuff around it so nobody could see. It was me
in there. And that's that's where I slept.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
And how does it go from Because we spoke briefly
off air when you were saying, how y'all weren't really
making a lot of money off the total experience.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Of money or none?

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
I an't no money, but so was this was pretty
much the only source of income just from touring and shows.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
I ain handle income.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
Wow, So not even the sampling of outstanding.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
Back in the day it was oncoming.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
So jesus, wow, man, I see wow. Well my questions
I will read the fine print.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:25:26):
One question I have for you was in regards to
like covers of your songs when people cover your stuff.
Two of some of my favorite gap band songs I've
discovered through the cover and then I went back and
heard the original and uh, Mary Mary Jay she covered
I'm in Love and then Jacket Edge they covered Wednesday
Love Her.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
What did you think of those covers? I thought they
were great, But what do you as the songwriter? You think?
It's like it's it made me feel proud. I mean,
when there's another generation is recording your records. I was
just really happy about the fact that that and then married.
So I know, million or two read records off of
that had albums and saw my brother he was the
primary writer, so he was happy and because they actually

(01:26:08):
he got paid. But at that time some kind of way,
he was doing his thing. And but Jacket Edge, of course,
that was another group that was had I hadn't, I
guess inspired. So I was happy about that that somebody
was recording now records. I mean I could re record

(01:26:28):
those records. I mean I can say that you were
already done. You don't go back and redo your own records.
I just didn't feel that way unless you was doing
it for published another The ownership of the songs you
can record them and just there now they belong to you,
you know, the re recorded version. Yeah, but I was,

(01:26:49):
I was. I enjoyed, man, I was glad that people
were doing it. You know, I wasn't angry at all.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
In two thousand and four, I think it was two
thousand and four you covered less Chill.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
Yeah, fool people with that. I put it on and
they're like, remember right right, Well, the reason I did
it is because he had done Yearning that one time.
They did like, this is one of my favorite record,
So I'll do this one, and I just did it.

Speaker 8 (01:27:17):
Do you have like, because I know you've done a
lot of features, do you have number one? Have you
said no? And is there requirements in your mind to
what you will not do?

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
Uh? I've been pretty I've stayed uh in my lane
pretty much, meaning uh you know R and B adult contemporary,
and that lane is you know, I paved the way
of somewhat nobody was really you know before that lane

(01:27:50):
was just really like being used a lot. Now I
think we came in there and just busted the place up,
and uh so I've been very happy there. And uh,
I don't think I would just be trying to do
hip hop record. So although I've sang on a lot
of hip hop records, but Charlie Wilson, I don't think
I would be doing on hip hop record or something
for some twelve year olds. I can't. What is that

(01:28:11):
for me? Right? That's okay? And I won't do that.
And like people, well.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
I was young, now young man, I was a kid.
I'm basically, but it won't be.

Speaker 8 (01:28:23):
Young Charlie Wilson like, now we're.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Not doing that. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't cross
that line. And to try to do do it for what,
you know, it's like to disappoint the fans that buy
the physical sales all the time for me or download
the streams for me. They I mean, why would I
do that? Now? I would go and sing with an
e mail or you know, you know, tied of the

(01:28:46):
curator or just you know, because they asked me to
come sing on some records, I'll do that and and
and basically their fans are buying their not my fans
ain't going to try to look for see what I'm saying.
So in that moment, what I'm gonna be what Tyler
want me to be at that moment. So whatever, whatever
I'm saying, whatever it is, then that's what we're doing

(01:29:08):
together at that moment. He's on the ground. Anyways, he
got his own friend about to say, he's got his
own following.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
So how surreal is it to I mean, you've done
something that not many rappers have been able to do.
You've actually transcended generations of hip hop artists, whereas you know,
doing the stuff with Snoop and and and and Death
Row Family then and now even twenty five years after that,

(01:29:38):
still going strong with stuff on Kanye's record and.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Working for Yeah, for Snoop, A girl, that girl that
and Bush.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Yeah. Yeah, So I mean, how how surreal is Are
you ever surprised now when you get a call like from.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
A nineteen year old Yeah? Yeah, I mean I was.
I've turned a few of them down. I was like, man,
and I know it's like they said, but he's up
and coming. I said, I'm up, still up and coming,
but I'm not gonna be I'm not coming over there.
So it's just like, just give me a minute to
just take a moment to relax and breathe. Let me
see what it is that this guy's doing, this kid's doing.
You know what I'm saying. I just don't want to

(01:30:15):
be the hook guy for every up and coming guy.
So it's like, you know, I mean, I'll, I mean,
I gotta understand what the worth is here and for people, man,
you just would you do it for me? And now
when they asked me what I do it for me?
Then I think about, Okay, what I'm lending to them.
I was like, this would be great for the kid,
and he wants to It's something he gonna never forget.

(01:30:35):
And that's the reason why I say yeah, Because if
I go to a room where a nineteen year old
kid and her mama or his mama always talked about me,
and they listened to all the records that I've done
with Kanye or for Real or Snoop or you know
or whoever you know, Master p Ye back in those days,
whoever it was, you know, so they get a chance
to have that same thing. So then I start obliging

(01:30:57):
because I would think about what I felt like when
somebody was turned me down. And so that's the reason
why I go this is also a good problem to have, though.
It's a good problem because if they don't call you
at all, and then where you be.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Do you do you now feel as though you're in
somewhat of endangered species territory?

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
Because singing right now isn't really a factor in black
music now, because I mean, if you thought the talk
box was cheating an auto tune?

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
Is you know what I mean?

Speaker 6 (01:31:27):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
What is that then? Talent? I mean words?

Speaker 2 (01:31:31):
I mean just basic things that melody structure. Yeah, it's
it's it's almost as if it's kind of like the
Things Fall Apart story with the Warrior, the very skilled
warrior comes back.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
To its homeland and don't even recognize it. It sees
that you know, it's it's changed. So I mean, do
you now feel do you sen? Do you do you
sing with a sense of purpose that like there's only
a few of us left. There's you, There's Ronald Eisley.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
There's Stevie. Stevie.

Speaker 2 (01:32:03):
I mean, how do you how do you feel just
in terms of your craft and where it stands now
in twenty sixteen, Whereas personally you're fine, but just as
an art and the craft itself and where we're singing

(01:32:25):
and the traditional black singing is concerned might be an
endangered species, Like do you have thoughts about that?

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
I have never I haven't really really thought about it
in that way, but I I do sing to protect
the brand. I protect my brand and protect the R
and B vibe of my life. That's what it is.
And R and B I sing to protect that. And
for those who are who can't get that done, then
I'm the only one out here doing it, and so
I have to protect it. And I go hard every

(01:32:56):
time I go, and may try to make sure I'm
correct with it and not to try to to let
the the our community down of of of R and
B and and what it is. And you haven't trust me,
you haven't, you know. I just I'm just trying to
protect the brand. Man, It's my brand first and then
and then of course you know, I know how it

(01:33:17):
is what it is now this day, even compared to
like a couple of years ago, a few years ago,
or ten years ago, it's totally different now. And if
you're not smart enough to to grasp all what's going
on now, man, you're gonna definitely be left behind. And
so hey, man, streaming is in and and you know,
come on, man, anybody oh forty years or fifty years

(01:33:39):
old ain't streaming. Basically they are screaming, but they ain't streaming.
What are they streaming? They're not even that They're giving
it stuff to their granddaughter to come on, man, this
is the technology is moving fast. And if you're not
moving fast with the technology and things with things are
being done. I mean I have an number one gospel

(01:34:00):
record now because of the way things are done. I
was number one, Timber, that's I'm blessed. There was number
debuted number one, and you got these gospels. Some of
these gospel always been on the Choice for twenty nine weeks,
peaking at number four, and then I debut at number one. Hello.

Speaker 8 (01:34:16):
So is it safe to say, on the back of
his question that if you when you are working with
certain R and B or soul artists, that they must
be the ship thing, because then you look at Laila
half the way you picked Layla, you pick Robin Thick.
So in your mind, these are people who to you
might be on that line of longevity.

Speaker 6 (01:34:31):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
I only picked those people because they always wanted to
sing with me, and I just never gave. I never
had the time to put them on. And so when
I was making these records, I started naming the people
that said, ask me what I sing with him, and
so that's what I did.

Speaker 8 (01:34:43):
So you still got a little bit of a list
left to them, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
Sure because a lot of people we ain't done the
Charlie Wilson, I haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Haven't got you that for yet. It's like it's I
have I have a lot a lot of people I
still want to work with. It's like I asked, I
asked quests.

Speaker 8 (01:35:02):
He just I don't know if you heard. He just said, yeah,
last I asked.

Speaker 1 (01:35:06):
Him, last one that did. Oh, what's gonna happen? Yeah,
I asked him when we did what the foul in
the last time? I said, man, we got to get
this record done and said, you got it. We're gonna
get that done.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
Done that yet you got You gotta understand that the
first time he came and sat in with us, there
wasn't even introductions, like we were just versing the songs,
like recapitulating his songs. Uh, and then he just stormed.
He stormed in our room like the kool Aide man,
like through the wall and just grabbed them. It was

(01:35:49):
something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
Yeah, you came in like theola. It wasn't even not
Because you gotta understand you know the way they play,
and this room is small. And when I walked in
was no that you should you should hear how it sounds.
And we've been in there everything is will sound like
a freaking record up from there, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
I'm like, hey, man, that we got got right on
top of that. I was like, hey, he to be
like sound that things sounded good?

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
It ain't no lie he do. He hadn't sounded so
good up and then I got to go on on
give him some props on that, and and uh, you know,
you know all those guys, you know, Chris got all
those guys. Man, those guys is playing up and there
they're not fooling around you. And and so to hear
that back like that, and then they had a vocal
on that. Yet I just went in, not even warming
up a little bit, warming up downstairs and uh and

(01:36:40):
down the hall, and I just went in on it
and so and he's already recording and then uh he
had and they said get that. So it was.

Speaker 3 (01:36:47):
It was the greatest entrance of all time. There was
no first name, Charlie, last name. I always was curious about.
I'm gonna get your sucker and the red Yeah, I'm
Gonna Get your Tucker and you're so cute.

Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
I really like like ever like UV for us? How
did that come about? How did you? We were in Uh,
we was in the studio and I forgot about I'm
Gonna Get Your Sucker. Movie was going and uh they
asked us a duel. Could we do this soundtrack? But
then they said you only have a few hours. Oh good?

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
Oh yeah. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
It was like it's like, okay, we want you to
do it. But I said, they don't really want us
to do that. Man, see you got like two hours
to do it. You say no, said. They probably said, well,
they can't do it right. When this one was about
this is over on drugs, They're not gonna be able
to do it, everybody said get the gap be in.
It's like because you know, uh, the Wayne brothers, they
you know, it's like get the gap bed, you know,

(01:37:46):
to do it. They said, well, okay, but give them
two hours to do it. I said, be back, and
I was like we started on the vibe. I was like,
be back, be back in two hours. And so I

(01:38:08):
mean when they came back within an hour, the guy
was like, are you kidding me? It's like, no, man,
push play, and then it was like I didn't really mind.
I just turned around walked off because I knew that
you was You're trying to you know, you're trying to
underestimate me man. So me and my brothers was like,
let's got the thing done and then the next record?

(01:38:28):
Can you give another one? You don't know, no timeframe
on it. Can you give another record? I was like yeah.
When I was at the house there and had the
studio inside the front room, and then and I wanted
to play move again so bad bed bed bend compete
if you did you know that thing I wanted to
play and you know, yes, yeah, never ever So I

(01:38:55):
did that one and and hand that one in and
they was like, we love them both, and so give
me my day money.

Speaker 3 (01:39:01):
Wait a minute before we stopped, I totally forgot weada
mentioned Mercedes Boy.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
Oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
What what was that experience like? Because I initially thought
Ellien Face did it when? And I forgot that you
were you wrote that? Was she your artist first?

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
Or thank you so much? I got to figure it out.
I did. I'm sorry. That was a great song. I
was a great song. And that was your first pop
I mean your first top ten. Yeah, and then and

(01:39:41):
then you know, basketball was so cool. And then after
she had went there, I caught pneumonia. Well I caught
pneumonia and I went down and then she had met them,
and then she was so she was initially your artist.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Well we were, yeah, had the time, Okay, okay, So
and then you intended on producing that whole.

Speaker 1 (01:40:03):
I produced the whole album. I did produce. The only
thing they put was girl girlfriend and another record that
had one that was it.

Speaker 8 (01:40:11):
No shade, but baby Face said it was another whole
big dude, not that I'm just just it was a
big she had another never mind she was popular.

Speaker 2 (01:40:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeahs yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:40:29):
The people because they heard the banker was you know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:32):
I rolling right now? Is everything right now?

Speaker 9 (01:40:35):
That was.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
Why he just killed any chances we had getting pebbles
on the show. Thank you. Yeah, So you did that record?
You did? I did the whole. I did the whole album.
Have we uh everything? Any definite questions? Yeah? I was,
yeah the dog father like how because you was all
over that album.

Speaker 3 (01:40:56):
And to me, that was when I guess I won't
say come back, but I mean because that wasn't a
very successful record with Snoop, but that was it was great. Yeah, yeah,
it was shot up his boss Bill for even bringing
that back into my parameter because I think none of
us gave the dog Fill a chance because of like
doing this giving a chance.

Speaker 2 (01:41:15):
Yeah, Dre wasn't on it, and because New like consciously
turned down the whole gangster element of the record, right.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
And it was and I went back to it. It's
a great record. It's a really great record. And I
was like, man, Charlie all over this, he's singing his
ass off. How did you you guys hook up at
that time? Well, me and Snoop was up, and of course,
you know, we were close. And I met him in
ninety five, ninety five, ninety six, and that time I

(01:41:44):
was just getting clean, sober, and I was just been
in his life since then. But while I was getting sober,
I was sober and just you know, my new life.
I'm living out this new life. In the beginning parts
of it, I'm with him and my wife, Snoop. I'm
a Snoop. I'm sorry, you guys can smoke that around.

(01:42:10):
He was like, what it's like, you got to put
that out everybody? It was park everybody. She made everybody
put it out. He's not coming in there. You got
to put it all out. So uh, just a beautiful thing.
So we I was there and I just started singing
with him, and of course I just took over where

(01:42:31):
Nate Dogg you know, left off, and basically, you know,
it was that whole thing was falling aparts, basically, and
me and Nate was to do to do a record together.
That never happened. That great. We never got a chance.
And he asked me like a couple of few times,
and I was like, okay, let's do it. I was,

(01:42:51):
of course, you know, I'm beginning to start working now,
and of and I didn't get a chance to get
back over there fast enough. And uh we talked on
the phone. I said we're gonna do it. Let's do
it next week and he said okay. Then he had
a struck. Damn wow. I missed that, man. I missed
that dude. He was very and he had some great

(01:43:13):
ideas of how we could do it too, and it
would have been the bomb, his vocal sound and my
little sound. It was just been like, are there any
other collaborations that we could I did. I was real
pocket that was there and when the day I was
in the studio and I think he had just mentioned

(01:43:33):
my name with like three seconds, and I opened the
door and when they turned around, everybody was jumping up
and down and I was like, what's going on. I'm
looking around and he was like, I just called your
name just now. If Charlie Wilson was here, we could
fuck this place then and now. And I was like,
he said, I got this idea, listened to it and
I was like, wow, that's one of mine. He was like, yeah, yeah,
we're flipping it. And he said can you do this?

(01:43:54):
When I was like yeah, but I mean it was
snoopy in three minutes, can't do it in three And
I said I'll do it. And I went over there
with snooping and again after that again then Park got
killed and you know after that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:15):
Wow, So what's the future for Uncle Charlie Wilson. Do
you like us when we call you Uncle Charlie Wilson?

Speaker 1 (01:44:23):
That's good? Well, yeah, it's okay, man, I listen quest man.
I just I'm just so blessed to be here at
now of what I'm doing now, it doesn't matter what
it is. I'm the only guy that's ever come out

(01:44:44):
of a group that late to try to do something
solo because everybody turned me down. And it was like, dude,
come on, are you serious. I'm like yeah, but I
mean that was really where it's way past the actual
you know, of trying to do something that I thought
would happen, and it ended up having and in any way,
and I've been having number one since then and since
two thousand and seventeen already, so every year I was

(01:45:06):
putting out a record, so almost you know. So, but
but it's I don't know what's what's what's for me next? Man?
I just I just thank god. I just go from
day to day and and my management, P music group,
my compare and led by him, and and you know,
it's just you know, and Sonya Mickel and and and

(01:45:29):
that whole staff and and Michael and everybody is just
doing things for me and and I just get up
when they put it together. I get up and go
do it. And I would love to do this movie,
you know, the movie and uh, and so I could
tell all the other stuff that I didn't sell in
the book and stuff that I didn't say today. It's
just like it's so much, it's so much to this
to me, and that I haven't got a chance to

(01:45:51):
to to say and get out of my spirit and
and not just just cut my own face off or whatever.
But hey, the truth is the truth. And so if
I'm gonna tell the truth on you, it can help
tell the truth on me, you see. So, but I'm
not like to point the finger. I'm just gonna tell
the truth and just have And it's gonna something that's
gonna make me look bad. Hey can't make me. I

(01:46:14):
can't make me look bad because I'm looking too good
right now. So you're looking good, looking good, So I
can't make me look bad. You have children, You have kids, man, Man,
kids have grown folks.

Speaker 8 (01:46:26):
They ask you for that?

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
How many they asked me for cars as.

Speaker 2 (01:46:33):
He asked me.

Speaker 1 (01:46:34):
They want houses and cars? And I was like, hey, god, damn,
give my brother break. How older that held up? Man?
They old?

Speaker 2 (01:46:43):
It's so old.

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
I'm just saying, wow, it might be young, man, young,
but but you know, I'm looking look at them. I
look at their kids, like what you want? Come on now,
I give you what you want? Can they sing to? Uh?
One of my daughters could sing, and she just never
did yeh And the other one just tone deaf, and

(01:47:07):
they act like she can sing. I can't I toned that.
I'm sorry, that's like it's like a it's like a
dark skin in the balls.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
She swept down and I'm like, oh daddy, I'm like, okay, Ship,
that's just worse.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
You just kill me right there with the dark all right, Well,
thank you uncle Charlie for doing my show.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
Hold on, shut up, it's been a dream man. Thank
you man. Should we even do reflections? I mean, I
think just an episode, that's it. You know what I'm saying.
I can't look bad because I'm looking too good. That's
a life quote right there.

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
That is well on behalf of Frantic a little uh
like your boss Bill, Unpaid Bill.

Speaker 3 (01:47:57):
And Sugar Steve and the great Charlie Bullson. This is
Quest Love of Quest Love Supreme, side and off. We'll
see you on the next caround.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Thank you. Yeah, and when we do this goddamn Boots
and CHILDI Wisdom Project, we ain't gonna see y'all next
time until we do this fucking rock now.

Speaker 2 (01:48:12):
Cool. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This
classic episode was produced by the team APT Pandora. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

(01:48:35):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Episode Transcript

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Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

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