QLS Classic: Howard Hewett

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
What Up People?

Speaker 3 (00:10):
June is here and that means it's Flat Music Month,
and that Quest Love Supreme now the Quest Love Show.
We've taken this month seriously. It's our chance to celebrate
blat music, document its history, and recognize the impact it
continues to have on our culture around the world.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
GARYL.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
June, We'll be bringing you an episode every day.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
My team and I have gone back through.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
The archives and pulled to gather conversations, stories and moments
that help tell a biggest story about black music and
the people who shaped it. We also got four brand
new Quest Love Show episodes coming your way, spotlining artists, thinkers, innovators,
cultural shifters, revolutionaries from across the spectrum of black music, past,

(00:54):
present and future. Thanks for spinning. You're part of June
with us, Happy Black Music monk.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
All right, Oh damn, I'm paid bills. What the hell?

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Snap son, Jesus Christ, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Of course, I'm supreme. I'm sorry, Bill, Thank you very much. Yeah,
all right, starring up. Pay Bill Man, you're in the house.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
You even with even with a Tony You're you're still
with us.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
I know, I'm just close from not.

Speaker 6 (01:45):
I'm here for Billy.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
The second you complete, you got, you're not gonna mess
with this anymore. The second he got before you, Hell yeah,
I'm getting out. Bill loves Supreme. I taking everybody with
cover too, He says, right, exactly, all right, sir Steve,
you're still loyal, correct to Bill Sherman.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yes, okay, hey, at least you lord of somebody.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
We got Funicolo in the crib. What's up? Brother?

Speaker 7 (02:19):
You call us good bro? Yeah, I'm good man. Were
down twenty six?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Cause? Yeah, nice? We move, we move, we moveing weight son.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
I like the fact that we down twenty six actually
is a good thing, because normally that could mean like
Atlanta is down by twenty six or you.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Down twenty six thousand dollars? Exactly what it is?

Speaker 5 (02:40):
The game, na man?

Speaker 3 (02:43):
You know, it's still trying trying to live past fifty. Yes,
which is you know, struggle, super struggle.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
How are you?

Speaker 8 (02:52):
Hey?

Speaker 6 (02:53):
I'm good man, I'm feeling all right, feeling all right.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
We're good all right, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, what can
I say?

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Our guest is a freakin' legend known to us of course,
as one third of probably one of my favorite groups.
I don't know, I can't categorize Shalamar as a soul group.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I can't categorize them as a pop group or a
bookie group.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
But you know, I mean because they transitioned between disco,
between bookie and between new wave eighties pop, you know
they were everlasting. And you know, of course, our guest
today is, without saying, a singer's singer, a real singer
and awesome singer has had such a story career singing

(03:44):
the soundtrack of our lives. I don't even want to
waste one minute in my patent long nineteen minute intros.
I will just say, welcome to Quest Left Supreme, the
one and only Howard Hewitt.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Thank you, yes, indeed, thank you, thank you for coming.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, I can't wait till we're off of zoom so
we could have like real hand claps again, like the
last seven episodes were all.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Breathing.

Speaker 5 (04:12):
And that's what that's what it's a killer, because that's
exactly what it sounds like when you're in, when you're
in like a huge.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Crowd, like right, exactly right, all right, we'll be effects week.
How are you today? What's going on?

Speaker 5 (04:28):
Very good, very well, Just just like we were talking
earlier about I do my my daily walk and I'm
trying to stay ahead of this heat out here. It's
like crazy, man, really crazy out here in California. Well
where I am, it's different temperatures different, Yeah, Long Beach.
Out of the Long Beach. Yesterday it was like seventy

(04:49):
seven degrees out here all day yesterday was like a
hundred and real field was one hundred and eight. So
Jesus great, what one hundred and eight?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Man?

Speaker 5 (04:59):
It was one of those times you just stay in
that you stay in the house, you don't even go outside.

Speaker 6 (05:04):
Close the curtains.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Actually, you you mentioned something that this this actually might
be inspirational for me. How often do you have to
commit to the daily walk. I'll admit that I will
often let my work schedule become become my excuse to
get out of it.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
So I've been I've been.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Sort of religious about the daily walk, but in the
last two weeks I've sort of slacked off on it
just due to the scheduling of it.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
But how important is the daily walked? Because before we
were rolling, we were just basically.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Talking about the struggle to survive, especially for black people
to struggle to survive past fifty without.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
You know, some sort of condition happening. So you know,
like I'm.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Sure, I'm certain that most of us that are on
our walking thing is doing it for health reasons and whatnot.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
So conditioning, you know, conditioning. And but for me, especially
for the past year, since the since the pandemic, it
was almost like in the beginning of the pandemic, it
was a spiritual thing for me because it was like
it was almost like God said to me, he said,
I'm going to remove everything from you that can distract

(06:18):
you from me. You did what I'm saying. Me and
my girl broke up a couple of months before before COVID.
You know, my partner. I'm not saying that that's why
he took him away from here, but he passed Like
in the beginning, the very beginning of of COVID, I
known this this cat since I was twenty years old
and my best friend.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Right.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
So, but through my career, I've gone through you know, death,
my mom and dad. You know, I've gone through breakups
and all that kind of stuff. Some of the saddest
times that I spent in my career was spent on stage.
You did what I'm saying, because and I had my work.
I always had my work. And so so he said,

(07:00):
no distractions now and he said, he said, and I'm
gonna take that away from you right now, you know.
And then and then my next question in my spirit was,
now what you're gonna do? You know what I'm saying.
And so that's when I did a daily I did
a daily reading. I get up, I read a daily situation.

(07:22):
I read. I started from Genesis in my Bible and went,
I'm all the way up almost halfway through the New
Testament now, you know, and and all the way and
every day. Because when I built my house, I had
them build a deck off of right, I can I
can roll out of bed in five or six steps.
I'm right outside on my deck, you know what I'm saying.

(07:44):
So that was my daily devotion between me, God, Christ,
the Holy Spirit. And so it was like and with that,
I started a whole situation as far as like we
were being shut in, but that didn't mean that we
had to be conspictators. So like when I in the
beginning of the pandemic, you know, I got out on

(08:07):
my bike there's like a fifteen to twenty mile route
that I can take around my crib. I got out
on my bike and then in the middle of that
fifteen to twenty miles route, I decided I stopped to
take a break, and I said, well, let me go
on Facebook, my Facebook fan page Live. Let me go
on live for a minute. And I went on there
and all these people started flooding into the thing, what's up,

(08:31):
what's going while you're doing you know, what's happening? Blah
blah blah blah blah. And so then that told me
that people are in But you know, and the thing
about this pandemic, about this virus rather is that it
thrives on It thrived on low immune systems. It thrived
on load vitamin D deficiencies, which is really heavy and

(08:53):
all especially within black people, right, so and so like
it was like that when I started. When I started,
I said, Okay, I'm gonna do it my walk, because
I do it like a four mile walk. And then
and at first I was walking and had my had
my had my phone in my hand walking, I'm walking
and talking at the same time, right, and then I'm

(09:14):
like I wasn't getting any benefit from the walk actually
because I'm not pacing myself. So then eventually I did
in the middle of the four miles, after about two miles,
i'd stop at a specific place and then I talk right.
So first at first it was fac dot dot dot
and life right, fresh air cardio, all that leads to life,

(09:37):
you know what I'm saying. And then after we started
talking and I started having these conversations my my, you know,
take on what was happening as far as the last
administration was concerned, my take on you know, the virus,
my take on this, my take, and people were chiming in.
Then it became a conversation. So then I added fac

(09:57):
c at another C dot dot and like fresh air
cardio conversation, which adds the communication, understanding each other and
all that leads to life, you know what I'm saying.
So it's almost like now, after all this time, it's
like I feel like I'm obligated to get on there

(10:20):
for my people, so like, you know, the people that
have have dedicated themselves to being there, so I have
a dedication to that myself. So on top of that,
getting you know, my health and keeping my health up
and keeping everything up you know. It's it's like, okay,
I can. I can take the time to do all

(10:40):
that stuff. Sometimes, you know, the schedule will well like
get in the way as far as like how early
I start, how early I can get out there. But
I'm always going to get out there, you know what
I'm saying. Every day, every day, I'm out there every day.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (10:56):
Even on the weekend. I know, I don't come on.
I ain't on the weekend. I don't go live on
the weekend, but I get out there and do something
on the weekend, do a daily show. Okay, yeah, all right,
well yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
How are you just let it be known that you're
definitely the straw that broke the all right, fine if
you That's what I needed to hear, you know, because
people have been get on me like, yo, man, you
slacking off. Man, you you're committed your da da da
you're falling off, like you.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Know, my partners don't walk with and all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
So they were getting on me today about that, like
you ain't walked in like ten.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Days, a mirite. So all right, I now know.

Speaker 5 (11:35):
I now know that I have to It's important, man,
It's really important because you know, you all you know,
all you got. If you don't have anything else, you
know you got and you have your health. If you
if everything's jacked up, everything can.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Be going well.

Speaker 5 (11:47):
But if you don't have your health, man, that's crazy.
It's crazy. And then if stuff is jacked up and
your health is jacked up, that's like a whole other thing.
There's a whole other situation.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
You're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Well, I'm brother, you look awesome like you you look
great and great health.

Speaker 6 (12:05):
That's the five year old gold.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
That's it.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
Sixty five.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Late forties to me, like for real, for real, they
still look great. Six. So yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
The the question I want to pose to you, of course,
is the first question always ask on the show. Uh,
could you please tell us what your first musical memory was?

Speaker 5 (12:29):
My first musical memory, man was Actually I would think
Isley Brothers, Sam Cook and my grandmother's garage. When we
would have all the holidays we would we would it
would always be at my grandmother, my grandma fitz Hugh's house.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
And well, you mean records or in person.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
No records I'm talking about say damn.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
I was like, whoa, oh, you're talking about live as
far as no, no, no, no, no, no, I mean your first memory.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
All right, Yeah, that's that's one of musical because we played.
I wasn't I was when I was five years old,
four or five years old. I was in charge of
like playing the forty fives and stuff and and they
clear out the garage and put a turntable in there
and we had the forty fives and stuff. So I
remember chain Gang, Sam Cook and twists and shout of

(13:27):
course you know the Is brothers. Yeah, I remember, I did.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
You know.

Speaker 5 (13:32):
I did about about twenty cities with Ron Iley about
some years, about six seven, eight years ago. And usually
when I do a show, I'm usually I do my
show and I'm gone or else, or if I'm headlining,
I get there twenty minutes before I go on and
that's it. I don't want to get there and hang
around and stuff. And if I'm on before the headliner,

(13:55):
then I'm gone. But with Ron, when I was out
there with Ron and and uh II Brothers and with
Ernie and stuff, man, every night, I was like in
the wings, you know, I was just like watching because
he took me all the way back to when I
was like five years old, you know, five six, four,
six seven, years old and then he caught me. You

(14:16):
called me out on stage every once in a while, man,
and that was like, what, all right, cool? You know,
but that's my first as far as musical musical situation.
I think that's the foundation that I had. And then
you know, went into the whole gospel thing.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, yeah, I was going to say that.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Okay, that makes sense because usually every musical great has
some sort of DJ curation experience before they get into
their profession.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
So that makes sense that you were in charge of
the family collection.

Speaker 5 (14:51):
All DJs want to be singers, and all singers want
to be DJ's. I was saying. He's saying with Frankie
Crocker a lot back in to day, and uh, that
was one of my best partners.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
And what was he like? Man?

Speaker 7 (15:05):
Was he you know known him as that personality? Was
he really out there like that?

Speaker 5 (15:10):
Frank Frankie was the most down down nigga in the world,
you know. And I remember because when we first proper.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
All the time I heard him speak, and.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
You know, I said, I'm on the Quest Love Show.
I got to be proper nigga.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
No, no, you must an't listen to the question.

Speaker 5 (15:35):
He's done my homework, you know.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Now we keep it out of let it go.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
Now. Frank was down nigga boy. He was like and
it was like when I first met him, you know,
we it was we had a second time around out.
So we were a lot of the lot of the
promotion in New York and stuff, and and uh, we
got to the we got to w B L S
and h he wasn't ready yet. So lady that was

(16:00):
the rep that was from the record company, she said, Okay,
well we're waiting on Frankie. We'll go over down to
this other I forget whether the station was kiss or
something like that was kissing, And so we went down there,
did the interview and stuff, and then we came back
and like Frankie were sitting down in the in the
lobby of the BLS and Frankie comes out. When he
walks out, you know, this is tall, I mean, black

(16:23):
nigga man. He's like fine features, you know. And I
remember reading about Frankie when I was like fifteen, sixteen
years old, when he got into the into the thing
with the Paola thing. So I remember, I remember there
was like an article and Playboy, and of course, you know,
I never looked at the picture article, but it talked

(16:50):
about it talked about his whole ordeal with the Paola
situation and the fact at the time that he when
he came back after the piel, he came back winding
up under twenty fifth Street on the White Stallion.

Speaker 6 (17:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (17:03):
Yeah, yeah, he was all the saying, so like we
when he came out, he's stood up there and he
just kind of stood there, right, and we're sitting he said,
I got my spies out. I know y'all went to
the other station. Y'all heard you. That's how we started out, right,
So we went in and then he looked at it
and he was doing the interview and stuff, and he says,

(17:25):
you know, your voice reminds me of Gladys Night. And
I'm like, glad it's night. But come on, man, Gladys Night.
I'm flattered, but Gladys Night, that's a chick, right, So
and uh and so then that's that's how our whole
thing started out. And I kind of clammed up on
the on the interview because I also heard about the
Isley brother interview, the historic Eisley brother interview when they

(17:47):
got in the fight on on you know, they.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Never heard of that one. I've heard this looking at.

Speaker 5 (17:54):
Us fight live on the air.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
You know, that's a lot of eyes like that was
before any.

Speaker 5 (18:01):
That's that's before any of them passed away. So they
were all on.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
All of them. Christ Jasper about six.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
But take out. So like later on we said, you know,
I saw him, I think because we were there doing
the thing. I think it was at Madison Square or
something like that, one of those big festivals, and so
at the you know, when I saw him later on
that night or the next night or something, he said, look,
I got a house, you know, and in Beverly Hills,
you know, off Bendic Canyon, he said, he said, here's that.

(18:32):
You know that We exchanged numbers and stuff. He said,
when you're when you're back in town, when you're off
the road, give me a car. You come up, you know,
have some dinner. I said, cool, you know, let's go,
I said. And so a couple of two, three weeks later,
we're going. I'm home and I give him a call
and he says, yeah, come on left for dinner. And
I'm thinking, you know, all right, Frankie Cockett's house. I

(18:52):
know he got ladies all over the the whole thing.
I'm bowling, you know. And I got up there and
it was me, him and his mom, Miss Brocker, and
he took care of his mom, and like from that
point on we got jam type. It was like it

(19:12):
was that that was my that was my man. That
was my man. So dope, you know, yeah, he was.
He was. He was not the persona basically. I mean,
he lived large, you don't, don't get it wrong, and
he demanded his respect as far as that's concerned. But
he wasn't something unorderly, un you know, crazy.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
He had a house in Beverly Hills and he was
a New York personality too.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
Yeah, he up on house up on Benedict On off
of Benedict Canyon.

Speaker 8 (19:43):
Yeah, he was the highest plate like black radio jock
in the country.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
So was he doing syndicated back then or was it just.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
He was he was doing he would do. I think syndication.
Syndication was just coming in maybe not too long after that.
But but he had he's had that house. He had
that house up there for a long time.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Say that's what I was thinking. Put you in the paper.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Maybe you know, yeah, I see, But do you do
you remember the first album that you purchased with your
own money, with my own money.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
I don't remember which one of what it was exactly.
I can't say, uh back in the day because.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
I still be stolen to Just in case I'm saying
people have come stealing their first records.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah exactly. But see, you know I come, I come
from my household, my I have four older sisters. You
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Soyo wow, Okay.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
So you know two times I had to I think
an album. Though I do believe an album that I
would have purchased, it might not have been the very
first one with it like Parliament Funkadelic and you know
all that kind of stuff like Maggot Brains and I
love that Eddie Agel situation.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, I take it. I know you
were born in Ohio, but I don't know what city
you were born in.

Speaker 5 (21:23):
Akron, Akron, Ohio, Akron.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay, yeah, wait a minute, Okay, this explains it all right.
So I know that James Ingram is also from Akron, Ohio. Yeah,
and I assume that you two were really good friends fifteen.

Speaker 5 (21:43):
I met James when I was fifteen.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
So this is this explains why you two are also
seeing background and pyt together exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (21:52):
I was with James when he got the demo for
Just Once, you know, and he's like, man, listen, because
we lived right around the corner from each other at
that time. And he said, man, and he said, listeners,
what do you think about this? I said, Man, I
think that's a coble song. He said, man, this is
some there's some pop pussy right here.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Man.

Speaker 5 (22:19):
And I said, I said, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's
true boy. Because you know, but see when Jane, when
I was back in Ohio my group, my group was
called Life. We spelled the l yf E, so Life
Jennings won the first nigga to say that right when
we spelled l yfy Life Banding Show. And it was

(22:41):
like seven of us and we were like fifteen sixteen,
seventeen eighteen. I think Ricky Parker Ricky Fletcher was eighteen
nineteen years old, and so we were proteges of Revelation Funk,
which you know, James played keyboards and they were all
they were all like about four years older than us.

(23:03):
So James played keyboards insane background because he didn't consider
himself a lead singer right, and they had this lead
singer called named Bernard Lost and he's still back and
acting now. Bernard Lost him to this day could sing
me under this, under this, my desk over here, this
this boy really what is you're talking about? Going from

(23:24):
natural effortlessly up into your foss He had that back,
he had that down back then, tall lanky brother and
like a dance of red dance and sing the same time.
And it was like, I mean, they were funky. Revelation
Funk was funky.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Wait a minute, Okay, so what's the name that's the
group that James Ingram was in that he was playing
keyboards and.

Speaker 7 (23:44):
Revelation God, damn it, damn it, damn it, damn the
ones from U Dolomite.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
Yeah, weren't they movie movie?

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (23:54):
Yeah, yeah, okay, because they came out here. They came
out here. Bernard never came out here because he Lord
called him back to the church, fortunately, because there was
some crazy stuff that was happening. But they had this
cat named Woochie Wayne Arnold that came out. Wayne was
bad too. I don't know what he means ARNOLDI So

(24:19):
we were like nobody call. But they came, they came
out here, and then they only stayed together out here
about a year and a half, uh maybe two years
or so, and then they broke up and James stayed
out Dap the drummers stayed out t Tucker the bass
players stayed out here, so you know. And then for James,

(24:41):
arrest was his He started working with Ray Charles and
a bunch of other people and stuff, and you know,
in the studio and stuff.

Speaker 6 (24:48):
It was cool just to get this straight.

Speaker 8 (24:50):
James Ingram sounded like that at fifteen years old.

Speaker 6 (24:54):
No, nothing has ever changed.

Speaker 5 (24:56):
Well, he was about when I first met and he
was nineteen because he was about years older than me.
And uh yeah, I mean he had to all that
stuff down hard, it's like, but but he didn't develop
it and and really kind of take it out where
it's supposed to be until, you know, until he got

(25:16):
it until he went solo.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
So well, one more thing, so if you were friends
with James, were you at all in proximity of his
brother Philip at the time when Philip was developing a
switch MH switch also has achron connections, correct.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
Yeah, Philip Phillip was like Philip was his younger brother.
So Phillip's younger than me. And uh, Phillips group back
in Achron, uh man, what.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Was his name?

Speaker 5 (25:45):
I forget, I forget their name. The name we had,
We had weird names back there. There was a group
called Picket Fence. I don't know what that was about,
but it was like, you know, but but Philip was
with Raw Soul, I think it was. And I mean
that Akron was an amazing place to grow up man.
And the rubber was the rubber capital of the world
at that time, so so middle class was thriving. It

(26:09):
was like you know, it was it was and you
either did you either did music, you did you worked
in the rubber factory, or you were pimp one or
the other. You know that some cats tried to do
all three.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
All three, all three but rubbers.

Speaker 9 (26:24):
And I think the name of Phillips the group was
raw so if I'm not mistaken, but yeah, Philip had
a great voice and everything.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
And and when they came out with Switch, I didn't
even have a deal at that time. We were I
was talking to l about that just the other day,
because every time I listened to L, I hear Bobby,
you know what I'm saying, and it's just it's crazy.
And uh so they came out, and you know it
was like Eddie Flewell and the trumpet player, Eddie and I.

(26:56):
Eddie and I went to grade school, junior high, and
graduated high school together. So when they came out, I
was I would go. You know, I heard they were
coming out and bringing them out, and so I went
and hung out with them at the studio. You know,
while they were while they were calling, I called it,
I call your name or something like that, and I

(27:16):
would just sit there and all just listening to Bobby.
He could do that because I think it was his
false but that wasn't his false. That was that was
his natural voice, just like I was listening to Elle
the other night. Elle's false is his natural voice. That's
his natural voice, right, So you know it's it's it's
you know, it was amazing. It was amazing as far

(27:37):
as I was concerned. So, yeah, Philip and and and Eddie,
Yeah came out when Switch came out.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Question, I do remember.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
I think I remember during one of the interviews with
Don Carneli's on Soul Train where you talked about you
were actually dancing on the show.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
First is that true. Were y'all just joking with each other.

Speaker 5 (27:58):
I was never a soul drained dancer.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Okay, okay, okay, damn.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
I thought I heard okay there because because it was
said it said, it was said with a laugh, so
I was like, wait, I don't know if he's serious
or not, but okay, I knew if that was true.

Speaker 5 (28:13):
I was dating. Uh this this lady that worked for
down and there at the Soul Tirain Dance Studios Studios
in the office, in the front.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Office, Pam Brown.

Speaker 5 (28:23):
No, no, no, this is her names any cunning?

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait
a minute. Jesus Christ, I can't believe I'm talking to
you right now.

Speaker 10 (28:34):
How are you you've no, no, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
It just hit me.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
You literally have christened a human being with my all
time favorite name.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I read about this and ride on. You have a
daughter named Rainy Days.

Speaker 5 (28:49):
Rainy Days d a z rather yo.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
When I read that ship when I was ten years old,
I'm like, I'm gonna have a girl and I'm the
name of Rainy Days, Like it just wow.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's crazy.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
Her mom, you know, eventually became my wife. She's the
mother and my two older daughters. But when when Rainie
was born, Rainie was the only only child that I
didn't see come out, you know, because I was I
was on the road. I had my oldest darted with me.
She was like a year and a half at the time,
and so her mom was so huge. I was like, look,

(29:23):
I'm gonna take I'm gonna take Lakeiva. My oldest daughter's
name is Lakiva, you know, which was the name let
Kiva k I v E. Which is a name, which
is the name I made up when I was nineteen
years old. I used to go to Kent State for
a minute, and like, I used to walk past Kiva Hall,
this hall called Kiva Hall, and I say, every morning

(29:45):
i'm walking to my first class, I say, wow, Kiva.
Kiva would be a beautiful name for a little girl.
But I had a love on the front of Lucky.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
That is so black. You got all the names correct, Bill,
I got it.

Speaker 5 (30:02):
I got it.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Anything. Bill, and my friend Lafonte and Quest.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
Got you so like.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
But like.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
I took Lakeiva out on the road with me because
her mom was so huge. I just wanted her to
concentrate on being pregnant, not not having so she was
having to take care of my one and half kids.
So I took my daughter out on the road with
me so we would we would work at the time Shalamar,
we were working Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

(30:42):
So Thursday I finished the show. Monday, I mean Sunday rather,
I finished the show. Then Monday morning me and Kiva
would jump on the plane fly back here to l
a sit there.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
You know.

Speaker 5 (30:54):
I take her to the beach walker on the sand,
you know, a whole thing, trying to make that baby drop,
you know what I'm saying. And after after about three
weeks or so, going back and forth, back and forth,
I was like wiped out. So we were near Ohio
and I called her and I said, you know, how
do you feel? She said, it feels you know. I said, look,
me and Kiva are going to go to my mom's

(31:15):
house and just chill. So I went to my mom's
house and said enough. We got there on Monday and
like Tuesday or Wednesday, she had the baby right so
named her, named her after her mom. Her mom's name
was Raining, and so my partner and partner mine was out.
I got him a job working with the group. When
when when I was with the group and stuff. So

(31:36):
one of my best partners, so you know, he was
out on the road with her, and like we were
sitting in my in either his room in my room,
and like he said, so, uh.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I can tell you this is already going to be
my favorite interview.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
Man.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
I feel like member of the the bank.

Speaker 5 (32:03):
Howard you were, he said, And I and and he said, so,
you know your name the baby Rainie had the baby?
You said, yeah, said what, so, what's you gonna name her?
I took the times. What are you gonna name her Rainie?
After my you know? Said what what's the middle name

(32:23):
gonna be? Sid? I was thinking about.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Days the other story.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
She sees his interview think that she thinks that I
was drunk or something, when I mean the whole time.

Speaker 6 (32:41):
You was talking, I was just thinking.

Speaker 8 (32:43):
I was, like, I hope Howard remembers all the stories
of how how his kids were born, because not for nothing,
especially the girls. My dad used to call me every
year of my life up until he got like eighty
and tell me on my birthday, like how my conception
of how I was born? And it's just it's just
a love about the conception, the conception.

Speaker 6 (32:59):
I'm sorry, how was exception?

Speaker 8 (33:02):
But the day I was born? Yeah, but yes, say
those stories, tell them stories people loved.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
I was going to say there was a ten year
old reading write on magazine that it was really really
hell impressed with that name. At the time, I was like, Wow,
that's the greatest name ever. Raindy Days. All right, I'm
gonna have Raindy Days two point oh. All right, So
it's it's still in the cars for.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
She hated it when she was in grade school, but
when she got into junior high and in high school
and then all that time adulthood, she loves it. She
loves her name, you.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Know, nice nice is she in the Does does she
have musical talent?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Does she? I have no clue what.

Speaker 5 (33:44):
She came out of schools, came out of high school,
wanted to do, you know, wanted to get into the
business and stuff, and so like, you know, I gave
her my advice and she, you know, got herself a
little job started, you know, putting putting together. Her demo
was about three or four demos, three or four songs,
and she had got her head shots together and then

(34:05):
got herself a deal with this company called notting Hill.
You know, notting Hill was in la and as well
as in London, you know, in the UK. So she
was They were working on an album together, and then
halfway through the album she comes to me she says,
you know, Dad, I'm really not into this. I said,

(34:25):
what do you mean into it? She said, I'm more
interested in what I'm gonna wear than the music, you
know what I'm saying. So he was into the fashion
for Unfortunately, the people at at at notting Hill were
cool and they had put a single out in uh
in the UK that did fairly well. But you know,
she wasn't she wasn't into it, so they let her

(34:47):
go and then she got a position with Vera Wang
company you know, did that for.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
A while now, So she lived in London for a while.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
She went to London. She didn't live there, but she
spent a lot of time.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Okay, I see, I see, Okay, I do want to know. Okay,
first of all, before you get into your entry, do
you know exactly what the situation was that caused Jerald
Brown to leave Shalamar.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
That was your vacancy, because.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
Even with those first two records, I always felt like
I had, you know, the first two albums as a
kid or whatever. I had the Uptown Festival forty five
and what not, and it's like, I never thought his
voice blended in with that group. Well even even take that,
I mean, take that to the Bank, of course was

(35:44):
a classic song, no matter what. But I never felt
like his voice fit into He was like he was
like a grown adult, and I always felt like Jody
and Jeffrey represented like the kids.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
While he was like a proper adult or whatever.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
But what's the situation that caused him to vacate the group?

Speaker 5 (36:03):
I don't, I don't. I don't know the specific situation
exactly what happened. I think there was some stuff, some
questions about management maybe or about whatever, because you know,
Gerald had been been in the business for a while
with Soul Trained, with the Soul Trained gang and coming
from coming from Cincinnati, and that first Uptown Festival album,

(36:26):
the first that wasn't Gerald, that was this guy named
Gary Mumford. So they had.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Oh, okay, they.

Speaker 5 (36:32):
Had two lead singers before before me, right, So it
was Gary Mumford on Uptown Festival and then Jerald Brown.
Uptown Festival was one of those things where, you know,
back in the day with disco and stuff. That's why
I was never really a big fan of disco because
I always thought it was pretty fabricated music. And you know,

(36:55):
I was more into the into the band and the
real people that did it, because you do you know,
they would put together, you know, a song with with
studio musicians, studio vocalists, throw it out there, see if
it made some noise. If it made some noise, then
they go and put a group together. And that's how
Salomar basically, you know formed. So it was like Gary

(37:17):
Mumford on Uptown Festival and then uh, and then he
I think he went back to the church too, if
I'm not mistaken. And and then Gerald Brown came in.
They took him from you know, because it was Don
Cornelius and uh, Griffy right, you know, at first it
was Soul Trained Records, you know what I mean. And

(37:40):
so they brought Jerald Brown in and then they did
take that to the bank. They were out in the
middle of a promotional tour. I was working with this cat, uh,
Jeffrey Bowen at the time because I was with a group.
I was with a group down that was formed people,
that was formed by the People, and uh mat Jeffrey Bourn.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Jeffrey Bowen produced a song for You by the Temptations, right.

Speaker 5 (38:05):
Yep, and a bunch of Colin did Bonnie Pointer was
his lady and.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Here was his wife?

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Right dom Bonnie Point was his wife? And wait did
he did he produce?

Speaker 8 (38:15):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (38:16):
I think he co produced with George Clinton two songs
on guitarist.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Eddie Hazel Eddie Hazel's.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
Record, We Were, We Were, Well, we Were. He had
hired me because I I was this girl, Tammy Gibson
who used to sing for Stevie in Wonder Love. She
was looking and she came looking for me because I
was with a group that ended up We ended up
overseas for about a year and a half. This show
group called Beverly Hills, right and the people at Mavericks

(38:45):
Flat down in the Crenshaw District, John Daniels and and
Alonzo Daniels his brother. They put together show groups and stuff.
So this was one of the groups that they put together.
We ended up touring overseas for about, you know, about
little less than a year and a half or so,
and I was making like two.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Point fifty three years this around.

Speaker 5 (39:05):
This is like seventy seven seventy seven, because I brought
seventy eight in seventy seven. Out the end of seventy seven,
I was in Helsinki, Finland, which was the first gig
that we did. And then we went to Geneva, Switzerland,
and I read that because I brought we brought seventy
eight nineteen seventy eight in in Geneva, Switzerland, and then

(39:26):
we went on to ben the Dorm, Spain, Santa Pez, France.
We're all over the place. I was making two point
fifty three hundred a week, you know what I'm saying.
But I was having them ball I was like twenty two,
about twenty two years old.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Again, I'm pulling out my inflation calculator just to see,
just to see. So when you're saying the show group,
you're saying in terms of like, uh, you guys, because
I think heat Wave was sort of in the same
situation where they were perform more on like army bases
or clubs of the day.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Is that the same situation.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
No, we never did army bases. But when I say
show group, I mean like a top forty group. You
know what I'm saying we did everything from Disco Infernal
to Mandy you know what.

Speaker 6 (40:12):
Today.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
So yeah, and it's like you you know, did you
know Afternoon Delight all that kind of stuff. You know,
it was like, you know, it was my stuff, old
stuff exactly. We didn't do any original stuff. It was
just and it was like, you know, so.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
But wait, by the way, guys, two point fifty back
in nineteen seventy seven was one thousand, one eighty seven
and eighty six cents by today.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
That was that was good, That was cool money.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
I wish I would have felt that. Then I came
back a year and a half with about five hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
That was this.

Speaker 5 (40:49):
But so, you know, so like I came back and
and all the Mavericks Flat was was a really interesting
place where on the weekend it was a club and
on the week days that's where we rehearsed. We would
rehearse the band, and anytime we had a show that
we wanted to try out on people at a live audience,

(41:10):
we would play at Mavericks Friday and Saturday the night
and so it was like, you know, I mean, Mavericks
was interesting in that you could look out in the
audience at any time. Shaka Khan would be sitting out there,
or Lionel Richie when he was with the Commodores, or
Richard Pryor hung out there all the time. And it
was it was just it was just a great place
to like cut your teeth as far as like you know, uh,

(41:34):
the way that you do your show, the whole thing,
and uh. And it was located Crenchhall right Crenshawn Stocker,
right on the corner of Crenshaw on Stocker.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
So this point in Crenshaw, because I also know that
it was Total Experience.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Also a club on Crenshaw as well, so right up
the street.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
As far as the black clubs are concerned, you're saying
at Maverick Flats and Total Experience, and like where.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Were the other nightlife for black people to go to?

Speaker 5 (42:02):
Strawberry Hill was a club there. I don't know, a
whole bunch of clubs around there, bit because I hung
at Mavericks all the time.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
You know.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
It was like I had a key to Mavericks at
one time. So you know, that was my that was
my hang that was my hanging spot, you know. So
there's other guys in Dolls. I think was a was
a club, but I think that was a little bit
before I got there, you know, guys and downs, But
I'm not really familiar with the whole bunch of the
clubs over there.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
So you're saying that if you if it's nineteen seventy seven,
seventy eight, seventy nine and you're a black professional, chances
are like you're hanging in on Crenshaw Boulevard at a club.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
So we weren't really doing like West Hollywood back then,
or no.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
I didn't do a lot of West Hollywood back then,
because that was like I got to I got out
here in LA in nineteen seventy six, you know, and
so I hooked up with the people with Mavericks about
to about two months after I got out here, you know,
and we and John Daniels told me what he what,
what he was, what he wanted to do. He had

(43:10):
a he had a bunch of show groups, and one
of his main show groups was this group called the
Love Machine. It was like seven seven fine, Fine with
Kathleen Bradley, who was the first black model on The
Price is Right.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
She was in.

Speaker 5 (43:30):
From Friday, Yeah, she was in that's what she shut
up Bilt and Uh, he's done. He's done over there.
It's like man. So yeah, she she was in. She
was in the Love Machine and six other beautiful women.

(43:54):
They and they went all around the world. When I
first went down there, the cat T Tucker that played
base for Revelation Funk like I said at that time.
By that time they were broken up and T was
playing for the Love Machine. And I called T one day.
I said, I got his number.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
I called him.

Speaker 5 (44:12):
I said, Yo, Man, I'm in town. Blah blah blah.
I said, man, come down to Maverick slat. I'm rehearsing today.
You know, I'm playing with this group called Love Machine.
So me and my cousin went down to Maverick flat
and stuff, and they were rehearsing at that time to
do a showcase that night for Tom Jones, because Tom
Jones wanted them to open up for him. So you know,

(44:35):
that was how that whole thing came about. And then
we started putting the group and stuff together. But I
was working there, went overseas, came back from there. We
broke up. The group. Beverly Hills broke up after about
a year little less than a year and a half
over in England and came back and I started kicking
around LA and then that's when I hooked up with

(44:56):
Jeffrey Bowen, you know, to he was doing this out,
this solo album on Eddie Hazel, you know, and he's.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Please describe with what Eddie Hazel was like.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Besides George Clinton, I really haven't gotten a straight story
about Eddie Hazel.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
He was.

Speaker 5 (45:14):
He was an interesting cat in that you really couldn't
get a good feel for Eddie because he was he was.
He was high a lot of times, you know, he
was he was like, you know, an amazing guitar player,
maggot brains. That's Eddie, you know, right, Eddie Hazel. And
but he was he I mean, I I just smoke.

(45:36):
We but he smoked weed.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
You know, I don't know what that means. You go back, yes,
you so.

Speaker 5 (45:50):
But but he was cool, I mean real cool, real
cool brother.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
But so you're saying that Eddie Hazel once potentially had
a deal on Motown Records that fell through.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
M hm. I don't know if it fell through because
they were they you know, Eddie, Jeffrey was producing it
and then we were working because after I came, like
I said, Tammy came and got me because she wanted
me to do this. She was she was contracting the
backgrounds or that they were doing. So I went in

(46:20):
and did the sessions. Me, Tammy, this girl Kathy James,
I forget I think that was the name, and we
went in and did the session. And then after after
we got done with the tunes and stuff, Jeffrey Cone
Jeffrey Bowen came to me. He said, you know, man,
I love your vocals. I love it. This is going
to be a self contained situation, so you know, I'd
love for you to be a part of It's going

(46:41):
to be you, Tammy and the girl that we were
working with. And I said, cool, you know that's that's great.
He said, I can get you in. He said, we
can start working on the contracts, you know, but I
can get you into the union tomorrow, right And I
said cool, okay, So the next day I joined after
you know what I'm saying, and all the checks and

(47:02):
we started and it was like I wasn't contracted yet,
you know. So if you're an uncontracted artist, you have
to get paid from the time you walk into the
studio the time you walk out of the studio. So
Jeffrey would book book the time for like eight o'clock,
you know, in the evening. He wouldn't show up for

(47:22):
whatever reasons, I don't know, until midnight, and then we
would work till about, you know, about four or five
o'clock in the morning, So that's like nine hours you know,
at about one hundred and thirty hundred and forty whatever
the scale was at that time, if you were doing
a solo or you know, inflation inflation count, it's.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
A lot of money, bill, it's a lot of money.

Speaker 6 (47:43):
It's a lot of money right there. So that sounded
like that.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
Yeah, So like you know, but then after about working
about a couple of months, you know, started getting kind
of flaky, you know what I'm saying, kind of shaky
as far as like the checks we weren't reflecting the
time that we you know, that we were in the studio.
And so then I called a meet. I took my lady.
I took my lady to work. She worked at you know,

(48:07):
like I said, for dying down at the SOULDI trained
dance studios up in West Hollywood, and I took her,
dropped her off of work, told her, I'm going to
the Motown building and have a meeting. Right, So I'm
sitting in a meeting on the fifteenth floor, and I'm like,
you know, y'all giving me the motown running around blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah, you know, blah blah,

(48:28):
getting all this stuff off my chest. And the phone rings, right,
and this Angelo Bond was his co producer. Angelo answers
the phone and he looks at me and he says,
it's for you. I said, it's for me. I said,
if it's my lady, tell her I'll call her. I'll
call her back.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Right.

Speaker 5 (48:45):
He said, well, not a lady, and it sounds like
it's a long distance. That was before cell phones. When
you hear the crackling on the phone, right, he.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Said, you know it's nine dollars a minute, he said.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
He said, it's not a lady, it's a guy, and
it sounds like it's long distance. So I take the
phone and it's Jeffrey Daniel. Right. They were in New
York at the time, in the middle of this promotional
tour whatever it was that they got into an argument about.
I never he said, he told me some I forget

(49:18):
exactly what it was. Because I wasn't one interested in
why with this was happening. It's like, what are we
getting to as far as like this phone call and
he said that you know that Jerald Brown that Jerald said, Hey,
when y'all can see it my way, give me a call.
And he jumps on the plane and leaves. Oh, they're
in the middle of a promotional tour you did, and

(49:38):
so like he says, I know, you know because they
it's Mavericks Flat. All the soul trained people used to
come down to Mavericks Flat all the time. I first
I first met Jeffrey and Jody before Shallamar at Mavericks Flat,
right and say, so they used to come there and
they used to show They used to see the show
that I did with Beverly Hills there right, Well, there's

(50:00):
three degrees of separation. That's crazy, you know what I'm saying.
So they saw the show. Jeffrey before before Shala Maar resisted,
Jeffrey had told me, man, I love your vocals. I said,
I love your dancing man. You and Jodie. I used
to watch them before I even left Ohio on soul train.
I see them dancing. Wow, that's great, that's great. So

(50:21):
he says, I know we you know we I know
you know that we formed Shalamar and blah blah blah.
We got to take that to the bank out there
when in the middle of promotional tour, we want to
offer you an equal position in the group, you know,
as lead singer. And I said, I said, well, okay,
and he told me all this stuff and then he says,
you're at the Motown building, right, I said yeah. He

(50:42):
said where are you. I'm up on the fifteenth floor.
He said, well, so large offices are down on the
ninth floor in the same building. And we talked and
we already talked to Dick Griffin and he he's waiting
for you to, you know, for you to get in
touch with him. So like, you know, so he talked
a little about longer. I get off the phone and
I tell Jeffrey Bowen and I tell Angel Obaum what

(51:05):
to do?

Speaker 2 (51:06):
No, I said what?

Speaker 5 (51:07):
And then the Angel says, man, Chellamar is just a
fly by night disco group. They'll never amount to anything.
And then you don't want to get involved with Solar
that you're you're you got the potential to be with Motown,
you know. And then Jeffrey started talking some stuff, and
when things like that happen, I have a tendency just
to kind of sit back, and ever since I was
a kid, if I did, if I had to think,

(51:29):
you know, I want to sit back and take in
everything that they're saying. So I'm listening, and when they
get done, I said, well, my car is parked on
the street. I need to go put some money in
the middle.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
No.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
I went down to the ninth floor, got in, talked
to Dick. This was on a Friday, right, and and
Dick reiterated what Jeffrey the offer Jeffrey made and uh,
I said, I told him. I said, no, I'm really interested.
I said, but I got to give these people upstairs
a chance to rectify themselves, because even though I didn't

(52:07):
have contracts, my words was still you know, worth the
word contract. Right. So I called them and told them, look,
I'm gonna be home. If you guys want to rectify
this thing, let me know, call me, right And so
all night Friday night nobody called. Saturday morning, I called
Dick and I went over to his house, watched the

(52:30):
videotape of a Shalamar show, and then I was sitting
in this rocking chair, right. I remember I was watching
the show, was sitting this rock and said. The show
goes off, and Dick says, well, sing something.

Speaker 7 (52:41):
You know.

Speaker 5 (52:41):
Jeffer and Joe to say, you're a great singer. Sing something.
I said, I said, right here, I compel them, you know.
He said yeah. And I said to myself, I said, well, lord,
you know me and you so I broke in. I
broke in the field of Fire by Peobo Bryce, I
compella something that to me, you know, and yeah, And

(53:02):
he got to the first verse half the hook, and
Dick says, okay, okay, okay, I'll be right back. He
goes upstairs, comes back down. He has like goes in
one pocket. He has some cash. He said, here's some cash,
you know, leave which old lady pay some bills. He
went in the other pocket and brought out an airline
ticket and that was pre nine to eleven. I could
ride on your ticket. You know, I could ride up

(53:24):
right on my head right, I could ride. You didn't
have to have a specific name, he said, here's an
airline ticket. You got to be on the red eye
out tonight. Meet the group of New Jersey tomorrow, as
they moved from New York to New Jersey. He said,
meet the group of New Jersey tomorrow, he said, because
and go over the lift sync and the choreography of
Take That to the Bank. He said, because Monday you

(53:46):
got a TV show to do. And I'm like, you know,
I'm like, you know, being from Ohio, think about Ohio?
Is that the prereconsist As far as our being from
a house, you got to be cool about everything, you
know what I'm saying. So like, I'm like, okay, okay,
you think you can handle it. Oh, sure I can
handle Inside. I'm like, I got a job.

Speaker 7 (54:09):
Well, I would have asked, what was Dick Griffy? Like, Man,
it's been about me.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Let me add on to that.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Fonte Howard, We've we've asked at least seven people this question,
and they kind of glide by the situation. Okay, I know,
I know the brother's not here right now, but can
you give us a real, real in quotations, Dick Griffy's situation?

Speaker 5 (54:37):
Uh, He's Dick. Dick was was a very should I say,
complex character in certain ways, but very direct in other ways.
And as far as like you know, he used a
lot of under the thumb type of tactics to keep things,
you know, in in tact as far as his so,

(54:59):
but that was his thing, that was how that was
where he came from. For instance, uh, for instance.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
All right, all right without without you compromising your position?
Were there any buildings with balconies on them utilized.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Office from nine to five?

Speaker 5 (55:22):
I don't think that happened with Dick, you know, with
the five heartbeat situations, you know. But but I've heard
of certain situations with other characters of who we won't
you know, going to right now also doing that whole.
But I don't think Dick ever ever did that type
of thing. But he was, he was, he was you know,

(55:42):
he was a gangst gangster type of cat, you know.
And and but he respected if you stood up for
what you you know, stood for, you.

Speaker 8 (55:52):
Know, five minutes the first time you stuttered, huh five
minutes we've been talking.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
It's the first time because because you want to be
because respectful, Yeah, because you want to be because because
I have I have much respect for it. Because Dick,
thank god, you know, Dick was a vehicle that was
chosen to get my foot in the door, you know
what I'm saying. And and as long as you you know,

(56:18):
once you get your foot in the door, it's up
to you to put to open up the door and
get in there. So like, you know, I appreciate the
the opportunity that Dick presented to me and and and
respected him, you know, immensely, and and missing dearly now.
But you know, I mean we had our drag knockdown,

(56:38):
drag out fights, man, and and it was like, you know,
when if I felt something, if I felt this was
not the way that this should be, he really he
really didn't like me going out and and and working
with people like Quincy, working with people like uh other
other producers and stuff, because then I can see, you know,

(56:59):
how it was really supposed to be done, and.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
How and how the real business looked like.

Speaker 5 (57:04):
The business was supposed to be done. And he didn't
like for me to do that, but I was going
to do that. I went out and work with Stanley,
when I work with George, you know, yeah, man, and
all those and and like I said, Quincy and you know,
so I could see how that whole thing was supposed
to go down, you know. And as far as financially

(57:26):
everything is concerned.

Speaker 8 (57:27):
So it's kind of like a you feel like it's
kind of like a learning process that he was the
beginning of the learning process, because I was wondering when
you got excited about getting a job and everything, at
that moment, you don't wonder, well, what do I have
any say in the songs that we sang? And you know,
like all the business stuff that, like in retrospect, you
may have, but at the same time.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
You didn't have it at that time.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
Yeah, well, at first, at first, I didn't want to
have any sale as far as we're concerned, because because
my whole thing was like, I want to learn, I
want to look at it. I'm not I don't want
to come here and act like I know what I'm
doing because I had never been in the recording a
real recording studio at all up to that point, you know,
like you know and and and Leon Silvers, you know,

(58:08):
like you know, it was like a learning process. I
saw how he worked, I saw how his uh, his
crew work, his cruel writers, Will Shelby, Kevin Spencer, and
I would sit back a lot of times. I was
back the first song that I really participated on and
in participated in writing and felt comfortable enough to present

(58:32):
it to them as far as writing was concerned, was
for the lover in you, you know, and so yeah,
so like you know that was me and Dana Myers
and like so, I mean we had a thing where
were reprint presented to the people to his his cruel,
his stable writers and stuff, and they would say veto.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
You know or.

Speaker 5 (58:55):
So you know it was like it was it was
a learning process for me. I didn't want to jumping there.
I know, I want to write down.

Speaker 8 (59:04):
I want a lesson that a lot of the youth here.
So that's why I want you to tell.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
So let me let me ask them. So with So,
your first album with is Big Fun?

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Correct, I got it? Okay? When I was the kids like,
oh the Dolphin record, it.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
Would kill would killer?

Speaker 7 (59:21):
Wells, I thought there was dolphins too, are black?

Speaker 5 (59:30):
Actually actually there were barrels that we were sitting on
and they're superimposed.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Barrels.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
Okay, the classic moment.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
So with barrels, Okay, with Big Fun. Yeah, So walk
us through the process of one. Like, by this point,
when you're doing Big Fun, how long have you been
in the group, what's your jelling situation?

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Now complete disclosure.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
I'm probably the only human being on earth that has
not seen unsung. I've heard it might have been a
tense episode. I don't know, So I'm kind of asking
you this, you know, from the total naivete of not
knowing what the situation was, But what was how long

(01:00:24):
was it before after that New Jersey first gig with him,
until you started recording Big Fun And what was the
gelling situation? Like with you, Jeffrey and Jody.

Speaker 5 (01:00:37):
It was, you know because when we first when I
first got there, we were like thrown together, you know,
when I first got to Jersey and we were, you know,
we I was in all day Sunday, I was in
a I forget. It was either Josie's room or Jeffrey's room.
I forget. But it was crammed into, you know, like
learning the lip sync. I studied the lip sync, you know,

(01:00:59):
while I was flying across country, and and then learning
the choreography because I'm used to singing, I used to
I'm not used to dancing. I'm a singer, right, so
you know that choreography. And so then we we got
that together, and then we continued on from uh, the
rest of that promotional tour, which if I'm getting I'm

(01:01:21):
trying to get I'm at that point now where I'm
even trying to get the timelines together because I'm I'm
writing a book. I want to write my book, you know,
so I need to get these timelines together myself. So
when I got I think I got there in New Jersey,
it had to been winter time because I had to
I had to buy an overcoat because I didn't have
an overcoat. So I went to this this clothing store

(01:01:43):
in New Jersey thing it was called Heaven on Earth
or something like that, and and bought this overcoat, you know.
So so that was so it had to been like
about maybe November, uh, November, September, October, November, December time.
And then we finished up that promotional tour at the

(01:02:06):
Copa Cabana, you know, in New York. And then as
soon as we flew back to back to La which
was the beginning of seventy nine, I believe, because it
was seventy eight. Yeah, the beginning of seventy nine, we
started immediately recording the Big Fun album. Went in and

(01:02:28):
started putting that whole whole thing together, and it took us.
It took us, you know, four or five six months,
or so four or five months or so to do
the whole album, and then we put, then we put,
so we went, So that takes us into towards the
end of seventy nine, you know, the middle mid towards

(01:02:50):
the end of seventy nine, and then put Second time
Around out there, and Second Time Around at first was
kind of creeping up the charts, you know what I'm saying.
But it wasn't. It wasn't until we did a remix.
Back then, that's when remixes were real big, you know
what I'm saying. So, yeah, twelve inches and stuff. So
I forget who did the remix. We did a remix

(01:03:11):
on it, put it out there, and then it like
screamed up the charts. So like that was towards the
end of end of seventy nine into eighty you know
what I'm saying. So it was like from that time
then we had a hit record in eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Wow, can you describe what working with Leon Silvers is? Like?
Do you have any do you have any big Fred
Lewis stories to go with it? And I'm playing.

Speaker 5 (01:03:39):
It was like I know that at one point, you know,
because Leon is like a stickler for backgrounds, and stuff
like that. I mean, just like Stickler for backgrounds, and
like I remember going in there one time and there
was a part I was supposed to be doing that day,
and like he we started out, I could tell it
was gonna be one of those days. We're like, that's good,

(01:04:01):
it sounds great. Let's do it again. Uh. And then
he's like, you know, and and that after about after
about forty five minutes, and so I said, Lee, I said, man,
I can't do this today. They'll start a getting tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Man he was. He was just a test mast Like
all right, I.

Speaker 5 (01:04:21):
Mean I mean phrasing, you know. And when you talk
about Howard Hewitt sound, I would give a big portion
of that. The kudos up to Leon for helping me
develop the Howard Hewitt sound. You know, I had my sound,
you know, going from the natural to the fast, you
know before I left out Ohio. You know, when I

(01:04:44):
was a kid, I developed that in my mom's bathroom
with all the all the tile and everything, with the
you know, built in reverb that you got in the bathroom.
So I developed that natural going into the falls back then.
But he helped me develop that other like staying like
Stickler as far as phrasing is concerned, you know, looking
at at every nuanced all those ad libs that you

(01:05:06):
think are ad libs on there, on those there ain't
no ad libs. We we thought that stuff out, you
know what I'm saying. He put it, put it there,
put it here, put it there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:05:18):
Do you remember like a moment of time when that
when that happened, when you thought, all right, I don't
know about this, but like, no, you gotta you gotta
do that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:25):
And it worked, Oh yeah, worked every time. But like
those those type of things were like are you sure
that's that's that's gonna work in there? You know yeah,
and that poompom boom boom, and it just fell right
in places like but do.

Speaker 7 (01:05:41):
You have any memories of recording because like two of
my favorite shadow my songs of all time, over and
over and Let's find a Time for Love.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Remember those sessions?

Speaker 5 (01:05:53):
Yeah, I remember over and over like it was like yesterday,
because that was when I was the only one in
the group basically, you know, Jeffrey and Jody had already split,
so like at that time I wanted to do I
wanted to do my solo thing. But Dick says, well,
you know, you still got two and a half three
years left on this contract. So you either got it.

(01:06:15):
You're either gonna do it, you know, go you just
sit around and ride it out, go to court, you know,
or move to England or wherever where Jeffrey Jody moved to. Well,
so you can do another you know, another album. And
so of course I hate court. I don't like court.
You know, courts, like of course, like the court's like
a nightmare Vegas. You know what I'm saying. You're just

(01:06:36):
going to you don't know what's happening. So so like
you know, but we recorded that over and over at
that time, did the video and that whole thing that
was when in the videos like me and Mickey Free
you know me Mickey and Leonne in that video and
uh and Let's time Let's find the Time for Love?
Was that the song you said, Let's time that's it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Yeah, Let's find a time for love? Yeah? Absolutely not
on the look is it?

Speaker 5 (01:07:01):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Yeah? That was was that?

Speaker 7 (01:07:07):
I think that was on three for Love? Let Me
let me hold them let me Yeah? No, no, no it wasn't.
It was on Friends.

Speaker 5 (01:07:17):
No, I think it's going Uh, let me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Find out that you're a fan of Go for It, Yo,
like on the loaf, like you bullshit, like you deep
cut cat, but cool dog Hey man, I rocked that album.

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
Yo, here you go Manen finding Time for Love that
was on Go for It wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
That was it wasn't friends. I mean that was for Love.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
It's just a beautiful song, man, just it really it is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
I love that record. But do you remember recording it.
Do you remember like recording that joint or like that session.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
I don't. I don't really really remember anything that's out
of my mind about recording except that it was just
a nod boom boom boom boom damn.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Now I'm looking for it. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:08:15):
And the thing and the thing that that really that
really stood out to me as far as that song
was concerned, also was just the combination of me and
Jody Wiley.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Man, it was like it was on Big Fun. It
was on Big Fun, Big Fun.

Speaker 5 (01:08:27):
That was the first album. Yeah, I think that was
the first time we really realized the magic that the
combination of our of our voices really projected out there.
It was it was, you know them, the timbre of
her voice and my voice together even on the background.

Speaker 7 (01:08:44):
Situation was like, amazing, amazing, that's a gorgeous song man,
a great performance by all right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
I don't necessarily want you to throw him under the rug,
but can you answer two questions for me? Because you know,
I just gotta know because again, like it's also my
perception of Shalamar coming from a ten year old. But
every time I turn around, like Jeffrey Daniel had a

(01:09:11):
guitar in his hand, but I don't recall him playing guitar.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Was he always air guitaring?

Speaker 5 (01:09:17):
Well, he was air guitar sometimes, but you know he
knows how to play. You know, he really stuck to
it and he really he can he can play it now,
you know what I'm saying. He really knows how to
play now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
And that's him singing on pop along Kid.

Speaker 5 (01:09:31):
Yeah, that's him singing on a long Kid.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, Okay, I get I get it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
No, I just wanted to make sure I didn't know
if that was him, that was you, if he was
giving much singing duties or not. Okay, from from one
from one to impossible? How hard were they on the
choreography front of things? Because you guys, you guys really
had a together, you know, It's almost like I wish

(01:09:57):
it was five of you because you guys were doing
shit that was like for our listeners out there, if
you if you can, if you could demo, if you
could demo, if you could google. A song called Shoe
Shoeshine by the Dynamics Superiors, in my opinion, is one
of the greatest performances ever on Soul Train, in which

(01:10:20):
they literally act out every word that's saying, like this
is past Charlie Atkins, this is past Brook Payne as
far as choreography is concerned. But yeah, I was saying
that the choreography that you guys had, even if you say,
like I'm not a dancer, somehow, in my mind I
just always walked away with like Schallamar really had great

(01:10:42):
polished choreography, Like how hard were how hard?

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
And like how much time did you guys spend on
those routines?

Speaker 5 (01:10:52):
Spending a lot of time on the routines Jody. Jody
was really instrumental as far as like putting together a
lot of routine. Jeffrey would throw his his his situation
in there a lot, and I at far, I mean,
I was just you know, because one of the things
that that I was concerned about was the fact that
I sing, and when you sing, it is like you

(01:11:13):
got to breathe, and you got the and you're breathing
if you're out of breath, you know what I'm saying.
And so that's when I, you know, I did the
I did the choreography and went through the quote. But
I told them, let's make be conscientious of the fact
that I'm singing. You know what I'm saying. You got

(01:11:33):
you know, you guys, I'm saying, I'm singing, I got
to hit those notes that I created on those albums
and all that kind of stuff, so you know, so
that's yeah, like you you know, and then then get
you know what I'm saying, So you know, it was
like then we started being I think we started being conscientious.

(01:11:54):
They started being conscientious of that, and that's when the
whole situation of like, you know, there's in choreography a
lot of times less is more, you know what I'm saying,
and the human mind, the human brain can only just
take so much, you know, So I would rather people
walk away from a concert saying, man, you remember when

(01:12:16):
they did this thing together, boom boom, boom boom. They
were together, and then Howard broke off and they broke on.
Then they came back and did it together. And so
I would rather that than a whole bunch of stuff
that they're not really gonna remember anyway. And so Jeffrey
and Jody were on it. Jeffrey's whole backsliding thing that
he had. Eventually, he's the one that taught Michael how

(01:12:38):
to do that, and Michael named it the moonwalk. Jeff
taught him how to do that. So but at the
you know, during the show, we would play the song
called what was it called I Forget It? But it
was first first part of writing the Socket. It's called
writing the Socket. Yeah, yeah, and we and they were
being Then the band would break down into this funky

(01:13:00):
groove and me and Jody would be on one side
of stage rocking, and Jeffrey be all the way on
the other side of the stage, and Jody and I
would pull this imaginary rope right and pull it and
boom like that, and Jeffrey would backslide all the way
across the stage.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Man.

Speaker 5 (01:13:17):
First, all people on the on the floor, It's guaranteed
they're standing up because they think he's on like a
conveyor belt.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
That's how.

Speaker 5 (01:13:26):
Until that. From that point on we could do anything.
We would do it. It was on, It was on.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
So do you have any do you have any knowledge
of because I know that Jeffrey was also trying to
get another group off the ground, the one that with Casper,
Coolly and Casper like his other dancers. There was there
was like I think it was like a singing group whatever.

(01:13:51):
I assume that he was trying to bring them through
the solar channel. Did anything ever happen.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
To that project, I'm not sure. I remember Casper and
Cooley though definitely Casper and Cooley actually went over first
because we were we were going overseas for a promotional
thing for about six weeks, so that's when Michael wanted
to learn the backslide, So first Cap and Coley, Casspar
and Cooley went over there to try and teach it
to him, but for some reason he couldn't grasp it

(01:14:17):
from them. So when we came back from uh, from
the promotional to it, that's when Jeffrey went over and
taught him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
How to do.

Speaker 5 (01:14:26):
But I think the the group was called, uh, what
was the what's the name of the group?

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
I forget to forget, I'm forgetting. Yeah, I'm blink right now.

Speaker 5 (01:14:36):
It's a it's a. It was a dance group basically,
and yeah, and like I don't know whether Jeffrey was
trying to make it into a singing group too and
maybe bring it to Dick or whatever, but nothing really
came of it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Okay, So at the time when second time around becomes
a big ass hit and it's definitely established that you're
in in a you know, a well established group that's
not going to have to struggle, at least in our eyes,
it's like, oh, you made it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Right out the box. How different does your life change?

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
Like? What is it to be a young successful blackmail
with a hit group? In Los Angeles, California nineteen.

Speaker 5 (01:15:33):
Eighty goopies were crazy, you know, but wet ass pussy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Did you just say that?

Speaker 8 (01:15:44):
And it made so much sense between me and Steven
Howard And I'm afraid the resident or feeling there too.

Speaker 6 (01:15:50):
I just don't know if every was there.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
Too out of context leave it out in context. They
just trust me listeners a conversation had.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Earlier, but.

Speaker 5 (01:16:04):
In a sense that was one of the changes, because
you know, I had dealt with with the whole groupie
thing since I was like, you know, young, very young,
like even in the gospel situation there you had your
gospel groupies, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
And when I, oh, yeah that's what they was holy
from the way stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:16:22):
Man, you know, the Lord told me to give this
to you. Okay, you know so, but but then you know,
and then I had, you know, when I when I
went into the R and B situation back in back
in Ohio, we had our our fans that follow us

(01:16:42):
around and then going overseas with the group with Beverly Hills,
you know, yeah, I can't yeah, yeah, foreign situation. When
I get with the group, I'm like, you know, I'm like, man,
I got this down. This is like I've been dealing
with this for a long time. There ain't nothing like
hit record groups. Hit record groups are the ones that, like,

(01:17:03):
you know, you come all of a sudden, it's like, oh,
how did you get in here? You know, and so
you know it that after a couple of years of that,
that really made me look at that whole thing and
and look and see, uh, you know, that's not something
I really want to deal with as far as that's concerned, because.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
It's not like they know me.

Speaker 5 (01:17:25):
They just know what they think about me. They knew me,
they might not even like me so like so that
so I ended that whole thing that was That was
a change in my life. But you know, as far
as the responsibility, I think you started getting at least
I did, anyway, started getting a sense of responsibility of
what you're saying because you know that people are really

(01:17:48):
listening to you, you know what I'm saying, and it's
like and that's with that comes responsibility. It's like, you know,
I got to like I said, I came from I
came from a whole house of women, you know, like
my mom, my mom, my four sisters, and then me
and my dad were the only testosterone, you know walking

(01:18:08):
around there for about three or four years until my
younger my younger brother came. But you know, but I
always looked at that and that always kind of shaped
what I would allow myself to, you know, to say
in my music and what I do and what I
and what I project project as far as the music

(01:18:29):
is concerned. So you know, but I mean it was
it was because at the time, was we were only
second time around was out there. I think it was
like I think I was about twenty three, twenty three
years ago, you know, so young. We were really really young.
Jeffrey's only like a couple of months older than I am,
and Jodie's like, I forget, like about three four years younger.

(01:18:51):
But you know, we were young, you know when that
whole thing went down. So it was it was a
big adjustment, and big adjustment.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
Is there any I mean not preparing you, but did
it ever get to the point where, especially when you're
young and impressionable, you have ideas of what starter was
like like, oh, there's a limousine and there's a bodyguard.
But I mean, was there just ever a time when
you just couldn't do something simple like just go to
the seven eleven to get you know, that would stick

(01:19:24):
of gum or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Was it like that or was it just.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
Could you still have a personal life or was it
like constantly being chased around and that sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:19:38):
Not being chased around? I think it was like, you know,
here in the States, you you had to realize you
had to get a sense of where you could go
and where you couldn't go. You did It's like you know, places,
there's places that even now I won't go because I
won't be. It won't be you know, like you want
a piece, yeah you're eating it was I don't mind.

(01:20:00):
And you know, autographs and stuff, that's a part. You
asked for it, you got it, Toyota, you know what
I'm saying. So that's a whole thing. But like you know,
the place that was really difficult to get around was
was in the UK once when it when everything hit
in the UK, because the UK is so condensed, you

(01:20:21):
know what I'm saying. I mean, the the whole island
is what Boble's biggest California, but you got all kind
of people in there and then and so once once
we hit there, it was like, I mean, it was
hit hit. Jeffrey went on top of the pops did
his thing the next day. It was like bam, it
was crazy, and.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Uh, can you explain that situation.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Because I've seen him do uh night to remember where
he's just pop locking by himself. And you know, even
I went to live there for a couple of years
and they still talk about like that being such a
game changing moment. I know that Jeffrey also hosted the
British version of Souldiering Soultring six twenty or whatever it

(01:21:07):
was called. But what was the situation that both you
and Jody didn't make that promotional tour and Jeffrey just
decided to pop lock and then well, to give you
guys a backstory, I believe that the legend is that
you guys were supposed to perform on Top of the Pops,
but something happened, so he decides, I'm just gonna pop lock,

(01:21:29):
and he does the moon walk on the show, and
suddenly you guys become instant mega celebrities.

Speaker 5 (01:21:36):
That's how I always say, whatever we were, whatever we
are over there in the UK, I mean we still
Jeffrey and I and Carolyn Griffy still tour over there now,
and we out we've carved out a real niche out there,
real good niche over there where we're doing festivals with
sixty seventy thousand people over there is now you know so,
And but what happened was all right? That happened was

(01:22:05):
we have been on the road so much. Also, Jody
was like pregnant with her first her first child or daughter, Lauren,
and uh, and I was trying to piece together what
little bit was left of my first marriage you know,
and which didn't happen. You know, it didn't work. But
but we have been on the road so much for

(01:22:26):
so long, we said, and at the time I can
make you Feel Good. There's another song that that me
and I get we wrote, we wrote together, and and
I Can make You Feel Good came out over there.
I Can make you Feel Good blown up, you know,
going up to charts, and took so long for us
to decide what we're going to do. By the time

(01:22:47):
he got there, I Can make you Feel Good had
had fallen to number two and Top Fox was the
number was was a program where they only did number
one records on there, so so he couldn't do he
couldn't do I Can make You Feel Good. But then
somehow I forget what happened. They they arranged it so

(01:23:09):
he could come back on there since he was all
the way all the way over because it felt the
number two on his way over there.

Speaker 7 (01:23:15):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:23:18):
That's cold, I know, so like like they said, you know,
they said, well, you know, yo, we can get him
on here. You can do you know, do a dance,
because he was going to do a dance thing to
I Can make You Feel Good. But he ended up
doing it to night, remember, yes, and I think that
was going to be the next single anyway or something
like that. So he went on there, and Top of

(01:23:41):
the Pops is the type of show. It came on
every Thursday, you know. And and if you went on
Top of the Pops and and Kill Friday, you saw
your album sales go go through the roof. That's how
how how instantly impactful. You know that that show was
to the UK. So man, he went on there. They

(01:24:01):
went crazy. Man, they went crazy. It was like it
was like, you know, we couldn't we couldn't walk down
the street apps time. And then we went over there.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
You know, I was going to say that in some
weird way, you guys, not going over there almost served
the group better because of that very specific Hey guys,
I don't know if you I don't know if you remember,
but when Leon had did our show, he had mentioned

(01:24:38):
a Shalamar video that it's escaping me right now. But
I went, I forget the title, but I went to
actually look it up on YouTube, and I have to
say it it's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
Probably in my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
I thought the emergency video for the Whispers was the
weirdest video from the Solar cannon with them arguing inside of.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
A phone booth.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
But you guys have a very it might have been
for the song you just mentioned. It was like you
were in a garden or do you not remember in
a garden? Like you're in a flower shop or something
like that.

Speaker 5 (01:25:19):
It's like, I don't want to be the last to know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
Yo, Okay, who conceptualized? Have you guys seen this video? Y'all?

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
No, forget forget keep on love of Me, forget all
the weird videos that have come from Solar.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
Records, like this tops every Oh my god everything.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
I only I only wish I had a time machine
to go back to Leon Silver's interview so we could
talk about this video so.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
War because I looked it up way after after we
did the interview. What was who conceptualized that video?

Speaker 5 (01:25:59):
Dude? It's like, didn't white It's like meats and one
of them flop hats on and something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
It's like an anti bellum, Like what's going on in
this video?

Speaker 5 (01:26:13):
I don't want to be the last you know, if
you're gone? Yeah, man, it was like that was back
in it. That was back We did three videos in
the same day.

Speaker 8 (01:26:26):
Man.

Speaker 6 (01:26:30):
This was the last one.

Speaker 5 (01:26:36):
I don't know who came up with their concept, because man, wow,
your hair was I mean, but but it's just like,
what was it the night to remember? I think when
Jeffrey was the bartender, the waiter or the bar, he
came out the closet and I'm like, that's not cool.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
Yeah, that that video was weird.

Speaker 8 (01:26:59):
But this, this, this takes the click, this taste, man,
this white face.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
This is the one time I wish the show had
a visual component. Everybody looking at it now, this this
is the oddest thing.

Speaker 5 (01:27:10):
Yo, Man is crazy. Like I said, but we did
three videos. I remember it was. It's nice to remember.
I don't want to be the last. And this tune
called work work it Out, work it out, you know right,
check out, work it out? Work it out?

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Is like that, that's even that's even crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:27:31):
It's even weirder. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
So who directed these videos? Bill Parker, Jesus Christ. It's weird.
You're right, I'm sorry, I'm like looking at it right now.

Speaker 5 (01:27:43):
But work it out? Yes, we got balloons working out. Yes, yes,
and then the balloons go back.

Speaker 7 (01:27:53):
But I mean, but really though, I mean, those videos
are weird, but I really looking back at it videos
were really something that I think it took a lot
of like black artists a while to figure out, you
know what I'm saying, like what it was because a
lot of those like early ages, I mean, they you could.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
Tell that they didn't know what the fuck to do,
you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying.
I mean, you look at it, don't look any further video.
It's just like what in the hell you know what
I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:28:18):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Right? Uh, don't look any further video from Dennis Edwards insight.

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
Yeah, but I will admit, like you guys, the whole
Solar Cannon, all the groups, including the Lakeside videos, and
even though I'm coming like at least like the fact
that you guys we're thinking forward as far as the
visual component that most groups weren't even thinking of back then,

(01:28:46):
you know, so it's almost like and that probably explains
I'm gonna get into.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
Yeah, for the life of me, I don't even know
how you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:28:54):
Were successful in getting a deck giveaway on MTV at
a time when MTV was.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
Very slow to play back black videos. But wait, I
do have a question. I gotta go to Charlene and
Willis's theme. Please. Why wasn't Somewhere There's a Love for
Me ever released as a single?

Speaker 5 (01:29:15):
Amazing song the way that people respond to it, man,
you would single, you would think it was it was
a single at some point because it's like they go crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
That Different Strokes episode, did y'all justice? Like that's you know,
for those.

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
Who don't know, you know, when Janet Jackson first was
on Different Strokes like that was her and will In
Todd Bridge's song on on on that show.

Speaker 5 (01:29:43):
So I didn't. I didn't know that, you know, I
didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
You never knew that.

Speaker 5 (01:29:47):
I never knew that. I didn't. I never really watched
Different Strokes that much.

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
But song placement. Man, again, I was a ten year old,
so it's like, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:29:58):
Can you explain why me being aware of what you
guys's records were as they came out. I do remember
being very shocked and surprised when Gofer it was just
like in the record Ben and I was like, well, wait,
where's the.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
Single at how come? I almost felt like it was
just put out there. It was just arbitrarily like what
was was God for a bunch of throwaway songs or
it was.

Speaker 5 (01:30:22):
It was there was we were going. Uh, Solar was
going from r c A Distribution to Electure Distribution, to
complete to complete their obligation to r c A. Each
group on the on the on the Solar label old
r c A. Another another album, one more album and

(01:30:43):
then we could then Solar could move on to Electure Distribution.
So it was like it was we called we used
to call it the Throwaway album. But on that album,
you had you had Sweeter as the Days Go By,
you had you know, this talk to Me, which was
which was like a crazy crazy things. James and I

(01:31:06):
did a song on there called you Got Me Right,
you know, one of those urgency things, you know, and
and but that's what it was. We used to call
it the throwaway album, you know. And that was because
we had to fulfill the obligation to h RCA disabusing
company and so that they can move on to the

(01:31:28):
Electric election.

Speaker 3 (01:31:30):
So at the time, though, and you know, like Thuraway albums,
are you know Frank Zapple was famous for it. Uh,
you know, Prince did Cast and Disorder. Like Thuraway albums,
there's nothing new about it. But at the time, are
you feeling like, well, we do have a are you
thinking about it in terms of legacy, like, well, I
don't I don't want to just put a stinker out

(01:31:50):
there or something that doesn't have all this promotion or something,
because you guys are basically releasing it knowing that it's
going to be dead in the water anyway. But did
you feel any sort of way about that as a group,
like we don't want to waste a shot, especially when
we have this much momentum.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
Mmmm.

Speaker 5 (01:32:08):
We really didn't think about that a lot because I
guess we were depending on the guidance of the record
company as far as that's concerned. You know, they said, Okay,
we're gonna do this. It's gonna be cool, blah blah blah,
and like I said, some some uh sweeter as the
days go by. That was that was a that was
a pretty you know, it turned out to be a

(01:32:29):
pretty especially overseas, turned out to be a pretty popular
song and stuff. So it wasn't it wasn't like we
put it wasn't like if you listen to the album,
wasn't like we put a stinker out there. There was
some stuff on, there was some stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
Sorry about that. I didn't mean stinker.

Speaker 3 (01:32:43):
But in terms of releasing it knowing that you're just
going to go put all the energy in front of
the Friends album.

Speaker 5 (01:32:50):
That's yeah, yeah, in front of the album with the
new distribution company. Now, I think we were you know again,
we were so we were still at that point, we
were still was pretty young in the business, and like
so we were we were depending if Dick said we're
gonna put it with you know, get a throw Way album.
Leon I said, we're gonna do a throw Way album. Okay,
all right, cool, let's do it. Let's get in there

(01:33:12):
and work, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
But I also noticed that this was the album that
the three of you really got to contribute a lot
of your personal songs to it, right.

Speaker 5 (01:33:19):
Right, especially Jeffrey. Jeffrey did a lot of stuff on there.

Speaker 3 (01:33:22):
And so in your in your mind, like what's what's
your favorite album of v Shallamar Cannon?

Speaker 5 (01:33:28):
I think like I really dig Three for Love. I
dig Three for Love because of the the politics of
it and as far as because Lee Young Junr told
me when I first got with the group, because up
until that time, it was a lot of caricatures as
far as album covers concerned. You know, the Uptown Festival

(01:33:53):
album cover was a cartoon.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
Type of character, the disco gardens and.

Speaker 5 (01:33:58):
Disco guard and and also you know even the big fun.

Speaker 10 (01:34:03):
Album you know, on thee and stuff and still you know,
but Lee told me, man, you have to establish your
faces as far as the group is concerned when people,
you have to establish it so that when people.

Speaker 5 (01:34:16):
Say Shalomar, they think of Howard, Jeffrey and Jody because
they see it. And then and on the on the
legal tip, you know, that was very cool. So that
was that was really important to me as far as
that album was concerned. Which album, which album was for
the lover and you on? Was that on three for Love?

(01:34:36):
That was on three for Love?

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
I believe, I believe, Yeah it's on yeah, yes.

Speaker 5 (01:34:41):
And what you were talking about in the very beginning
of the of this whole of this whole show was
very important because when I first got with the group,
it was like, you know, Shalamar the disco group, you
know what I'm saying, And like, like I said, I
wasn't a big fan of disco, you know what I'm saying.
So my thing was like, that's we need to establish

(01:35:02):
this as a as a as a group, as a
as a whatever you want to pop, R and B whatever,
not disco. So when we did for the Lovering You,
for the lover and You was very instrumental in doing that,
taking us from the disco group into you know, when
they started talking about Shalamar, you know, after for the

(01:35:22):
Lovering You, it was like, yeah, the group Shalamar, the
singing group, pop group, R and B group, But you know,
put the disco group out of the picture.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
What was the name, Where did the name come from?
What was the meaning of the name Chalamar.

Speaker 5 (01:35:38):
This is there's this cat named Sis Simone Susan who
brought h Uptown Festival to Dick and Don Cornelia's Uptown
Festival was like a medley of motown hits, you know,
so like uh, you know, in the disco, in the
disco format. And so Simone Soussan was this cat. And

(01:36:00):
there was a there was a garden over in the
Middle East or something like that called Shalomar Garden. It
was a s H L I M A R. You know,
shalle Mar.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
It was this.

Speaker 5 (01:36:13):
There was this uh, there was this botanical garden that
this potentate or somebody you know, put together for his lady,
you know, and and so like there was this beautiful garden.
That's how they got disco garden out of it. And
then they changed the.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
I to the A and s A A L A
M A L s H s H A L A
M A R.

Speaker 7 (01:36:36):
Yeah, okay, what can you what can you tell us
both legally and and respectfully about Jody's situation and why
she's not torn with the band currently with us currently.

Speaker 2 (01:36:48):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:36:49):
At the time, we we got an offer Jeffrey, like
I think it was about twenty years ago, seventeen twenty
years or so ago. We we uh uh got well,
Jeffrey got an offer to do five gigs over in Asia,
over and throughout Japan and stuff, and so you know,
we called Jody, we said, you know, jeff called me.

(01:37:11):
I said, yeah, I'm down, I'm cool, it'll be fun.
And then we called Jody and Jody said, well, I
don't think I really want to revisit that part of
my life, you know, and and which you know you
can't say, I mean, she she, You know, everybody didn't
have the same you know, it's a situation you can do.

(01:37:31):
You know, three people, two people can experience the same.

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
Exact thing and come different experiences.

Speaker 5 (01:37:39):
Two different experiences. So you got three people who experienced
the same exact thing and came away with three different
uh experiences. So at that time, Jeffrey and I went
and we did the shows by herself. We put the
band together and we did the shows ourselves, you know,
and uh. And then in fact we went on to
do a bunch of stuff in the UK. We went

(01:38:02):
to Africa a couple of times with that light, with
just me and Jeffrey. And then when we wanted to
bring the female entity back into it, Carolyn Griffy who
is Dick Griffy's daughter, and she was she was singing
background for me on a lot of my solo stuff,
you know, and so she had the history of the group,

(01:38:23):
she had the passion of the group. So we didn't even,
we didn't even. And also she had she has an
amazing voice. I love her, I love her instrument. And
we didn't even audition to anybody else. We just offered
the position.

Speaker 7 (01:38:39):
Yeah, how was your how was your relationship before mister
Griffy when he passed? How was our relationship at that
time right before he passed?

Speaker 5 (01:38:48):
Me and Dick, Yeah, yeah, and we were we were
we were at each other's about something. I forget what
it was. I forget what it was. He didn't, And
it was funny because, like, you know, he was just
he was just learning about texting and stuff at that
time and accidentally sent it to me. I'm like, nigga,

(01:39:16):
you know, and I just I just laughed, you know,
and and I forget what it was we were arguing
about at that time, but I loved him. I loved it,
you know. And then we had a bitter sweet thing
when he passed, Yeah, seventy something, you know, and like

(01:39:39):
you know, it was it was, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:39:41):
It was sad.

Speaker 5 (01:39:41):
I never got a chance to see him right when
before he passed. We had a couple of meetings before
he got before he got sick, and uh, you know,
but we were arguing about something then. I forget what
it was.

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
But wow, you know, I know, I know I brought
it up earlier, but kind of want to revisit it.
I know that you and James Ingram are singing on
p YT. Are you at all involved on the original
version of p YT the slower before it turned into

(01:40:14):
the version that's on Thriller. There's another alternative, slower, smoother
version of Yeah. Yeah, a slower version. Are you on
that version at all? Or is it just the version
that's on Thriller?

Speaker 5 (01:40:27):
Just a version is on Thriller. I didn't even know
there was a slower version.

Speaker 2 (01:40:31):
Out, you know, you know good well, yeah, they left
no stone unturned, like they kept.

Speaker 5 (01:40:37):
Where the background sampled from the from the no.

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
No, no, no, it's completely different recording. Just the title.

Speaker 3 (01:40:44):
They shared the title, that's all. Like they turned into
something totally totally different. But speaking of speaking of Griffy again,
you know, MTV was was just a baby, and of
course they were world famous for really not focusing on
that many black acts. And yet I remember at the

(01:41:06):
same time when they started slowly playing Billy Jean and
beat It, you guys were one of the few groups
that they slowly letting the door, along with like Prince
and Lionel, Ritchie, Eddie Griant. How do you do you
know how that happened? Like how was was that the
making of Dick Griffy or like.

Speaker 5 (01:41:28):
I don't know what the politics were as far as
what the politics were as far as getting all that
into in uh into the playlist, but at the time
it was just it was just us and Michael and
but you know, don you had that you had that
famous interview with David Bowie and Bowie. Yeah, and I
think at that point they started kind of re re

(01:41:50):
looking at certain situations. When David Bowie comes up to usist,
how can you call yourself a music channel and and
you not playing black music? It's like it's crazy, you know,
so so like, but I'm not sure about the politics.
It was just you know, people they the promotion. People
kept pushing it, kept pushing it. But at the time,

(01:42:11):
like I said, it was just it was just us
and Michael at the time that they were playing.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
Okay, So can I assume that the look was technically
kind of sort of maybe your first solo record, but.

Speaker 5 (01:42:28):
Kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:42:31):
Okay, it was the last.

Speaker 5 (01:42:33):
It was the last album that we did that Jeffrey
and Jody and I did together. But they participated just
like they equally as far as like just like we
used to do all the rest of the projects and stuff.
There's a tune on there called you Are the You're
the One for me, man. Check that tune out if
you get a chance to check that TOI.

Speaker 3 (01:42:53):
Oh, I know I know it well, I know it well,
but I just wanted to know, like the working process.
Speaking of the Look, I know, I know, and you
know I'm a Philadelphian. So I feel like a bad
Philadelphian because I'm gonna ask you this question.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
But I know that you wrote the Look with Stanley Clark.

Speaker 3 (01:43:11):
Now personally one of my all time favorite how Youwit songs,
non shallow mar related, But really, if I'm honest with it,
this is probably my all time favorite song of yours.

Speaker 2 (01:43:22):
Is Heaven Sent?

Speaker 3 (01:43:24):
Now you know, as a jazz head, you know this
is a guy that's you know, done, returned it forever,
doesn't change the world.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
Of bass music. I feel really silly that this is also.

Speaker 3 (01:43:35):
Might be my favorite Stanley Clark song, being as though
he has such an intricate history with his bass, but
this one particular song says could you What I really
want to know is why didn't you say that for
your own project? Yes, even though it made noise on
his record, I almost felt like because when it came out,
I felt like, oh, this is the how are you

(01:43:57):
were solo joint?

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
And then I couldn't find it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:00):
She's looking for forever, and then finally it's like it's
buried on you know the Stanley Clark record.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
Did you talk about that song?

Speaker 5 (01:44:09):
That song? It was was one of the first times
that I ventured, one of my first ventures off from Solar,
you know what, I'm right, And so, like I said before,
Dick wasn't really a big fan of that, but you know,
it was like you gotta you can't just you know,
keep people sold up in certain situations. So it was

(01:44:30):
when Stanley, because Stanley and I met first, and then
he un me to George and when we met, we
had a mutual friend that was his accountant, I think,
and then he did some he doesn't work for me,
and then he introduced me to Stanley. Stan was a
fan of you know, the Salomar stuff, and I was

(01:44:51):
definitely a fan of Stanley. It's because my first instrument
that I learned how to play when I was like
twelve years old was bass, So you know, I was
the Stanley was like the cat, right, So we just
started working together. And there was another cat that wrote
that song. I think he passed away. I can't remember

(01:45:12):
that wrote a lot on Heaven sent Heaven said, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
Okay, I gotta look it up.

Speaker 5 (01:45:20):
Yeah, I can't remember his name. There was some I
remember there was some stuff that was going on with
him and Stanley, but you know, we got we you know,
we went in and started recording, started messing around with it,
and it was just it was it was just slated
to go on his album. It wasn't slated to go
on my album. And that was before I think, you know,

(01:45:41):
the whole concept of putting a song. You could put
it on this album, I'll do it that album, put
it on my album. You know what I'm saying. We
weren't doing that then.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Is this song is it? Is it still in your repertoire?

Speaker 5 (01:45:54):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely definitely. I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:45:59):
I was just gonna ask, what was the creative chemistry
like Stanley and George working together?

Speaker 2 (01:46:05):
What were they like in the studio together?

Speaker 5 (01:46:07):
Man? It was like because because I did a lot
of the Clark Duke, uh and a lot of involved
in a lot of that, especially the videos I do,
these little crazy cameo appearances on the videos didn't make
any sense all of a sudden, I'm there, you know
what I'm saying. It was amazing. I mean, George just

(01:46:30):
working with George, so George was just I mean, if
you didn't know anybody that didn't. All the whole bottom
part of George's house in Hollywood, uh, lower Hollywood Hills,
basically off of Franklin. The whole bottom part of his
house was his studio. Everything room, studio, you know, everything,

(01:46:52):
the lounge, everything was. The studio had a he had
his wine cellar down there and stuff, and I mean
it was it was just we We would just go
in there and it was a place to go in
and just be creative and working with and then watching
him and Stanley together was just a double double situation,

(01:47:15):
double dose of what you know, George did and it
and it and it was was enhanced by Stanley's stuff.
Stanley do some stuff, George would enhance it with his thing.

Speaker 2 (01:47:28):
I mean it was.

Speaker 5 (01:47:29):
It was a major, major creative, total creative atmosphere in there.

Speaker 2 (01:47:35):
That's beautiful, man. Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
Could you what was the audition process like for Mickey
Free and Delisa Davis once Jeffrey and Jody left, uh, challabar.

Speaker 5 (01:47:49):
Well, for Mickey, there wasn't really an audition situation. Mickey
was working on a project I think with Leon, you know,
and Mickey was like basically, you know, this prince like
uh player cat and and he was working out of
a studio masters, and so I would come there. I

(01:48:11):
was working on something, and then we see each other,
I think with these studio masters of Larbie a studio
I can't remember, but we crossed each other across the path.
Hey man, what was up?

Speaker 2 (01:48:20):
Hey man?

Speaker 5 (01:48:21):
What's up? And then keep on going right, and then
we started talking and stuff. And Mickey is Mickey if
he ever decided to put this guitar down and not
do music anymore, he could be a stand up comedian
for real. That that nigga had me cracking up the

(01:48:41):
whole time. And so then that's when I talked to
Leon because like I said, they were they were working
on something. And then I said, well, why don't I
bring you know, uh Mickey in, which changed the whole
situation of the group, you know, because Mickey was more
of this rock cat and I was just looking to

(01:49:01):
do something to pass the time for two and a
half years, you know, so you know, and we went
into the whole you know, we went into the whole
rock thing. You know. I always had my dressing room
when Jeffrey was in the group. It was me and
Jeffrey had a dressing room, right, we just went together.
Joey would have her own dressing room, but it's just
you know, the camaraderie of it, you know. So Mickey

(01:49:22):
and I had our dressing room together. Our theme song
in the dressing room was Rebel Yelle, which would call
leather gloves on and the built can you know what
I'm saying? And were ready to go out there and
deal man, So like it changed the whole thing. Now

(01:49:45):
with Deleisa, we Dick came up with this idea of
involving a lot of the local different local radio stations
across the country and do this contest contest to find
the girl for Saloman, you know. And it involved the

(01:50:07):
local radio stations and and all of them. They put
together this thing. They had auditions Don Lewis. Don Lewis
auditioned in New York. That's when I first met Don Lewis.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
I don't remember, I was I was all episode. I
missed that episode. Yeah, was our last pre COVID interview.

Speaker 5 (01:50:30):
Oh yeah, I remember Don coming out with these hot
pants and these and these uh uh what they called
fish net stockings. Right for years, I called her fish
net right because she didn't she didn't win the audition,
and Delease because she won the New York audition, and

(01:50:51):
then she was then they flew they flew her to
l A and one it was here's l A in
l A. One of the time she was in LA
that's when she forgets she connected with the different world
people are are, yeah, the different world people. But for
years after I knew and you know, after I knew
don for years, I can never really remember her name,

(01:51:12):
but I call her fishnets, you know, so you know,
but that was the process. You know. De Lisa was
from Nashville. So when we went to Nashville, did the
did the audis and there.

Speaker 3 (01:51:24):
So this this was nationwide's nationwide Yeah, oh wow, okay,
Georganashville all all over the place.

Speaker 5 (01:51:32):
We're all over the place.

Speaker 3 (01:51:33):
By the way, did did Mickey ever share any of
that basketball Charlie Murphy story with you at all?

Speaker 5 (01:51:39):
The day after he said, he told you after the
day after it happened. Man, That's why when people called me,
when people called me after Dave Chappelle did it, and
years later when people called me and told me, man,
you see that skit, the Charlie Murphy Hollywood stories and
on Dave Chapelle. They did a thing.

Speaker 11 (01:51:58):
They talked about Mickey going up and going up to
Princess House. I said, Man, Mickey called me the day
after they the day after they did that, and so
were up at We were up at Shortcats House man
last night, and and Eddie Murphy and Charlie Murphy. Everybody
came up and played basketball, he said. Prince Prince went
out there in his heels and was dunking. He said, Man,

(01:52:23):
anybody wants some pancakes?

Speaker 2 (01:52:28):
Wait a minute, he called me.

Speaker 5 (01:52:30):
He called me the day after a day after that
went down.

Speaker 3 (01:52:34):
Wait, can I get this fronte because I'm gonna forget this.
Also on the Look, you worked with the legendary David
Hawk Wazinski formerly of Rufus.

Speaker 5 (01:52:46):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:52:47):
Yeah, could you talk to like that? That's a cat
I definitely want to interview as well. Liked you talk
about the process of songwriting with him and working with him.

Speaker 5 (01:52:56):
It was wild Hawk was wild. His studio. It was
called it was up in the Hills, off of a
law off, the off, the one on off, the one
on one. Uh, Laurel wasn't law can I can't remember?

Speaker 2 (01:53:10):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (01:53:10):
It was up in the Hills and the name of
the studio was called Food in the Hill.

Speaker 2 (01:53:16):
You know what I'm saying, Called fool Hill, Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:53:19):
Pool in the Hills Studios.

Speaker 2 (01:53:21):
So it was like me him, Mickey, we had it.

Speaker 5 (01:53:25):
Yeah, it was just the whole writing process and would
get serious then all of a sudden it would just
go off to change somewhere else and we were just
you know, we were just up there. We had we had,
you know, interesting situation visitors up there in and out and.

Speaker 2 (01:53:44):
I as see what you're going.

Speaker 5 (01:53:48):
And so like, you know, but it was but but
the creative situation of it when we would be on
track was amazing. It was amazing. We got a lot
of work done, a lot of creative looking at we did.
One of the songs we did was called my Girl loves.

Speaker 2 (01:54:04):
My Girl loves Me. That's my ship, you know, yeah, yeah,
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:54:15):
Probably to you like this was like all right, I'm
just gonna do this bid and then get out here
and do my solo Jowin. But you know, for a whatever,
a past the time record, at least in your words,
like I the the Heartbreak record was actually kind of dope,

(01:54:35):
and I do I do want to know the story. Okay,
so I know the history of Dean Pittsford because I
went to perform An arts high school. So Dean Pittsford,
of course you know he's he's he's a fellow e
gotter Bill. You should know this person. He wrote, I
mean from Godspell, the Fame. He wrote like a lot
of Broadway stuff. He won Matt Grammys and a Tony

(01:54:58):
and Emmy. I know that him and Bill Wolford wrote
uh about to say footloose? Well, they wrote that too.
They wrote dancing in the sheets, sheets like.

Speaker 8 (01:55:08):
The streets to a child here, excuse me, mister Hewett.

Speaker 6 (01:55:13):
And I know I called you Howard the whole time.

Speaker 8 (01:55:14):
But a young child who hears that song you sang
the first time you heard somebody said it was dancing
in the I mean they're.

Speaker 2 (01:55:21):
Talking about getting it on and they talking about the sheets.

Speaker 6 (01:55:23):
Kids don't even hear that part. You just hear them.

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
I was a kid and I heard that your friends.
You know, Yes, I now grab your coat when we're
going home, That's what he says.

Speaker 6 (01:55:34):
Yeah, I'm enlightened. As of today, I am enlightened.

Speaker 2 (01:55:38):
Yes, she thought I was dancing in the streets. But wait,
can I can.

Speaker 3 (01:55:41):
I just ask though, yes, the song was a bona
fide hit, but did anyone ever raise the question that
it might be a tad bit derivative of nineteen ninety
nine at all?

Speaker 5 (01:55:51):
Well, you know, the thing, the whole the way that
whole thing came about was at the time, like I said,
it was just me. I don't even think I had
Mickey in the group the time. It was just it
was just me and and Dean Pittford called and wanted
me and Leon to come to the to the Paramount
Studios and listen and look at this movie that he

(01:56:13):
had and he had temporary music in it, you know,
just stuff. And then when it came to the park
where he had written you know, for dancing and sheets,
he said, this is where I want, you know, shalamar
thing to be. And so, like you know, we watched
a movie, we talked, got blah blah blahlah, and Leon
and Leone and I are walking back to the UH

(01:56:36):
to the the parking lot and I said, well, what
do you think you know? He said, well, I got
a whole lot on my plate. I don't think that's
gonna be a big movie, you know what, I'm saying
it's it's like and I got I got a whole
lot on my plate. I don't really, I'm not I'm
not really gonna have time to do it. He said,
well what do you think? I said, well, I don't

(01:56:56):
think it's gonna be a big movie either, you know,
but god, I ain't gonna throw Leon under the bus
like that. It was me too, I said, I don't
think it's going to be a big movie.

Speaker 3 (01:57:10):
You saw Footloose and you were just like, man, whatever,
you know, okay, you.

Speaker 5 (01:57:15):
Know, because because it was it was just you know,
this guy, this cat teaching white folks how to dance
and all that. You know, It's like, you know, it's like, hey,
you know, I don't think it's going to be that
big of a movie. But I said, but being with
the position that the group, which I was gonna have
to keep on at that time, I knew Dick Griffy

(01:57:35):
wasn't gonna allow me to get out of my contract,
so I had to keep on with the group. I said,
but given the position that the group is in at
this time, I said, I think it would be a
good even though I don't think it's gonna be a
I don't think it's a great movie. They're gonna put
a push behind it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:54):
Yeah, good look, it'll be a good look promotional thing.

Speaker 5 (01:57:58):
So it would be you know, why not do it?
I'll do it. I put it, you know, do the
do the song, put it in there, shallow my name
lives hoever, you know what I'm saying. So I know,
I had to go to Solar, to the legal department
in Solar when somebody called me one morning and then

(01:58:18):
the soundtrack had been out there and it is sold.
Because at that time, soundtracks weren't really big. People really
didn't look at soundtracks, you know, and that was like
the first the first bid of the first one of
the first big soundtracks out there. But I had to
go to Solar and say because somebody called me that
particular morning said, uh, you've been checking out the Footloose

(01:58:42):
soundtrack and said now, I was, hey, man, they sold
platinum already. I said, what there, you know? And so
I go I go to and talk to Virgil Roberts
at the at the record company. I went down to
the record company. I said, man, Vergil, you've been checking
the Dancing the Footloose soundtrack. Virgil goes in yeah, you

(01:59:03):
know about how these these things really don't don't sell
a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:59:07):
You know, it's not a sound.

Speaker 5 (01:59:11):
And that said I said, dude, it's platinum. Somebody told
me it'slat Yeah, there's no way, no way, platinum. And
then that's it took off from there. Man, it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:59:21):
But I was about to say, you guys, double dip,
because isn't the only Grammy for Shallamar also for your
participation on the Beverly Hills cop so yeah, for don't
get Stopped in Beverly Hills.

Speaker 2 (01:59:34):
So it was almost like eighty four was the year.

Speaker 5 (01:59:37):
Of Yeah that was Hawk with Linsky. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
double dip. That's that's that's right. We didn't I don't.
I don't think we know. We didn't win anything for.

Speaker 3 (01:59:51):
Well that well, the soundtrack one a Grammy, So I
assume that someone gets that.

Speaker 2 (01:59:58):
Uh, you know that sort of thing.

Speaker 7 (02:00:02):
I was gonna I was gonna ask you out man,
what can you tell us about your marriage to near
people's I used to always watch the Party Machine when
I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (02:00:10):
Jesus I got.

Speaker 6 (02:00:12):
First, like so I felt like a little celebrity couple.

Speaker 2 (02:00:16):
Yeah, the original jame b.

Speaker 5 (02:00:20):
I gotta say.

Speaker 2 (02:00:23):
Kay, no, no, no, no, no, never mind, keep going.
That's a good story, right there was.

Speaker 5 (02:00:32):
There was a cat. There was a cat Jerome Gasper,
who was an r cat for PolyGram. I think at
the time it's a good friend of mine and so
and maybe prefaced it. Also. I had a I had
a condo and Handcock Parker that at that time, and
I had this in my bedroom. I had this big
you know, remember the rear projections, big screen TVs. I

(02:00:53):
had a big rear projections, big screen TV at the
bottom of my bed. And uh, every morning I wake up,
you know, turn on the TV, flip through the channels,
get the channel eleven or nine or whatever, and I
see Fame was on, you know, you know what I'm saying.
And there I said, man, there's this fine woman that

(02:01:14):
comes on Fame. You know, I never I never waited
for the credits or anything. I just wanted to look
at her, you know what I'm saying. And then I
keep it on Fame on the channel where Fame was
for about you know, ten fifteen minutes. If she didn't
come on the screen, I'd start flipping through the channel.
But I'm sitting there. Yeah, fine, you know what I'm saying.

(02:01:38):
So this guy's er own Gaspar called me and uh
he said, he talked. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah yeah. Howard Howard, Howard Howard.

Speaker 2 (02:01:47):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:01:48):
He said, man, we just we just signed the girl
from fame, you know, to a contract or a PolyGram.
I want you to do a few songs on her.
I wanted to a couple of two, three songs on her.
I said, well, whi's the girl there's near people's. I said, well,
which girl?

Speaker 2 (02:02:01):
You that?

Speaker 5 (02:02:03):
Same he said? He said, I sent you overnight a compilation,
uh via a tape to you. And I said, okay, cool.
Next morning the FedEx cons, they they get the tape.
I put the tape in my VH just seeing and
I said, ladies general near people And she comes walking
out on stage. I pushed cars and I called, I'm in.

Speaker 2 (02:02:25):
I mean, I'm on my way.

Speaker 5 (02:02:32):
Whatever you want me to do on there, you know.

Speaker 6 (02:02:34):
And soul Train was first.

Speaker 8 (02:02:36):
I said, I messed up that timeline in my kid
here because I was like, oh, I thought soul Train
was first. With soul Train was after the two of
your hosts.

Speaker 2 (02:02:43):
And she was never on soul Train. He was never
she was on Party Machine.

Speaker 3 (02:02:50):
Sorry but to our long but to our younger gen
Z listeners, she's all she's the hot mom on Pretty
Little Liars.

Speaker 2 (02:02:59):
So that's what that's what everyone knows her as, like, Yes.

Speaker 5 (02:03:07):
We worked on we worked on the album and really
got you know, got got really close. So she's she's
a good ladies, she's a good woman. We have our son.
We have Christopher is uh our son, you know, and
it's amazing. We just we just had lunch about two
weeks or so ago, she and I, Christopher, her other

(02:03:27):
daughter and stuff. It's like this, it's very cool. It's
very cool.

Speaker 6 (02:03:31):
First response and be like, let's we just had lunch.

Speaker 3 (02:03:38):
No wait, I gotta say though, Damn, I didn't wait
because I know we got to end this episode eventually sometime, however,
I will.

Speaker 2 (02:03:47):
I got this. What is okay?

Speaker 3 (02:03:49):
This is always what I always wanted to know when
an artist does their signature, like when they do the
Token Gods song on their record.

Speaker 6 (02:04:02):
I E.

Speaker 2 (02:04:04):
Love that sort of thing. Where is are you at
a place in your life?

Speaker 3 (02:04:09):
What it's sort of like because we we didn't even
get into the personal comings and going through life in
the turmoil whatever, like we're just on the creative and
the things. But at that point, the fact the fact
that say Men became such a signature song for you,
m h, Like, where were.

Speaker 2 (02:04:28):
You in your life that that song.

Speaker 3 (02:04:32):
Made made its appearance and the way that you delivered it,
like we really believed it. So were you at a
transitional phase in your life where that song came right
in time?

Speaker 5 (02:04:44):
Okay? So before I left the group, before I left
Salomar at the time, like two or three years, two
or three years before I left Salomar, I always had
the situation I wanted to do a solo album. So
I remember praying, seriously, pray prayer. I said, Lord, when
I'm by myself, when I'm solo, when I'm when I'm

(02:05:05):
responsible for what I say, I said, I promised that
I will honor you on every solo project that I do,
you know, and and I have. So say Man was
the first, was on the Ey Committal Love album was
the first solo and then on and on. But when
I finally rolled my contract out, I had a lecture,

(02:05:27):
you know, if you know the term electure, had first
rights or refusal on everything that came off of Solar Right,
So I had to give them. I had to. I
had to go through them before I could go anywhere else,
you know, as far as my solo situation was concerned.
So you know, at the time, e lecture was like
cold as ice. They didn't they had. All they had

(02:05:49):
over there was the eagles and and and that whole thing,
and and and so. Like I told my attorney, I said, okay,
so they have to have first rights or refusal, and
they in other words, they have to you know, decline
the deal that we bring to them. You know, you
know what I'm saying. So I said, if that's the case,
why don't we just make this deal so ridiculous that

(02:06:13):
they're gonna decline it.

Speaker 2 (02:06:15):
You did, so you.

Speaker 5 (02:06:20):
Put all kinds of stuff in there, bumps here.

Speaker 2 (02:06:23):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:06:23):
The money was like unheard of for the first time
solo arts, even though I had the success with Shalamar,
was crazy. And we took it to him, Bob Krasnow,
who was head of them.

Speaker 2 (02:06:35):
Yeah, Bob says, he calls your bluff.

Speaker 5 (02:06:40):
He says, okay, what else.

Speaker 8 (02:06:45):
You know?

Speaker 5 (02:06:45):
So so, like, you know, okay, they accepted it. So
it was a great deal monetarily, and the company was
a great turnout to be a company, a great company,
but it was almost like I just describe a Solar
Electra like a twelve cylinder car and you're only running
on six cylinders, you know what I'm saying. And because

(02:07:08):
they did their job, they did their situation as far
as the urban R and B situations concerned, but the
pop department over there never came to the party. So
you know, it was like it was a whole thing.
But getting back to when I first went to the thing,
I had the new record company and I had a
new management company. So this was in nineteen eighty five

(02:07:31):
when I first left the group, and so I had
a meeting with the new record company. I had a
meeting with an RCAT and a new record company had
a meeting and with the new management company that I
had hired, and I went in. I was excited about
doing my first solo project. Shook everybody's hand, and I
sat down and I said, first of all, before we

(02:07:52):
get started in this meeting, I said, I want to
say I want to do a song to the Lord
on this album.

Speaker 2 (02:08:00):
It was like, that's how you started the.

Speaker 5 (02:08:02):
Meeting, That's how I started the meeting, Okay, And so
I want to do a song to the Lord on
this and like it's like you can hear crickets in there.
This is eighty five. This I don't know when Jesus
Is Love came out, but.

Speaker 3 (02:08:16):
This, that was eighty But again it was a rare move,
like open the door. You normalized it when you did it,
then everyone started doing it.

Speaker 5 (02:08:25):
Or real but it wasn't. But at the time it
was like, you know, I'm talking about putting you know,
Denise would do a gospel album, then she come back
and do an R and B album. I was talking
about combining putting that on there. You know what I'm saying.
And so like you know, this one cat starts talking, well,
you know Howard, you don't we might get into we

(02:08:46):
want to take your career in the sex symbol direction,
might not be conducive to religious overtones, and this and
that and that and this, and then my management companies,
the cat from my management he started talking because I
hadn't even talked to him about that yet, right, And
so I'm sitting again, I said, I sat, I sat
back and I listened. I listened what they were saying,

(02:09:08):
and all the time in my head, I'm saying, okay, Lord,
you know what am I supposed to do here?

Speaker 2 (02:09:13):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (02:09:14):
And so when they got done talking, I said, you
know what, I hear you, and I understand you, and
I can I can dig where you're coming from. I said,
but maybe because because in my mind too, man, is
that these people got to promote my record. I don't
want to get anybody, you.

Speaker 2 (02:09:33):
Know, if you want to give them something that they're
enthusiastic about as well.

Speaker 5 (02:09:36):
Yeah, sour about promoting the record and stuff. But I
had to stand, you know, I had to stand for
what I had promised. And when I said, I said, look,
I said, I understand it. I hear where you're coming from.
This nineteen eighty five, I said, But let me just
let me let me go back and let me rephrase
what I said. I said, let me say that I'm

(02:09:59):
going wanting to do a song.

Speaker 2 (02:10:04):
Ask him, and asked, like.

Speaker 5 (02:10:06):
I'm going to do a song to the Lord on
this album. Hit My promise to him sits up here
as far as like my priorities and if it's like
you know, and and I'm going to do a song
to the Lord on this album. So I said, we
can talk about everything else now, you know. So we
talked about everything else, and then then you know, we

(02:10:27):
went away once once Monte Seward, who's co writer on
that on that on Same Men. When we put it,
when we put it together, man, it was like it
was great. But I will say that it was nineteen
eighty five around that time or so, and then I

(02:10:48):
I was dating as a girl in Miami. Litt was.
Her family was in Miami. So I remember we were
going to spend Thanksgiving there with her family. She had
moved to la and we were going to send spend Thanksgiving.
So I was in the in the studio, you know,
the whole day, and she had already flown down there,
and I was gonna get on the Red Eye and

(02:11:08):
meet her there, right. So I get on a plane
and Monty and I had come up with the track,
like a real rough track for SA Men, and I
knew that's what I wanted to be, you know, the
inspirational song. So I jump on the red Eye going
to Miami and I get on the plane, I put

(02:11:29):
my headphones on, I put the cassette in. It was
on the cassette, you know, and so I was listening
to about three or four songs that I still had
to write melodies and lyrics to. And at the end
of that cassette was a was like a real rough
track of say Men, I mean one of the and
it didn't even go all the way through it just
you know, it's just a real rough track of Samen.

(02:11:51):
And when it came on, all these lyrics started coming
to me, and it's like, you know, it's time to
say goodbye from now. You know, we'll have our second
time around, second time around. You know we'll have our
second time around. But before we go, there's something I
got to say. Everything's not what it seems. There's a
stronger force behind the scene. He's in our lives every day.

(02:12:14):
He's right there when we call and him it's where
And I'm writing and I'm writing, and there was this
lady sitting next to me. And then when I got
to the second I got to the second verse where
it says talks about cattle on a thousand hills. My
mom used to always tell me when I was a kid,
she says, you're the King's kid. You're the King's kid,
you know, and the king and he had you know,

(02:12:36):
your God's child. This is what she was saying. And
there's and she would always tell them there's golden cattle
on a thousand hills, and that's yours. You know, that's
yours because you're you're the King's kid, that's ours. You know,
we're children of the God's God. And so when I
started writing now, I said, you know, I know there's
someone who don't believe. Sometimes it's very hard to see
living those life every day. Some things don't go away,

(02:12:59):
but be without is not his will. There's cattle on
a thousand hills. Man, it hit me. I'm like writing
it's cattle on a thousand hells.

Speaker 2 (02:13:08):
There it hit me.

Speaker 5 (02:13:09):
There, tears started coming down, and this lady sitting next
to me, like, what the hell is happening? Oh, you know,
can I can I move my seat or something like that.
But by the time by time it touched down in
h at Miami International Lyrically, the song was totally done.

Speaker 8 (02:13:32):
It's crazy because you know, most people when they hear
that song, no matter how many times they hear that song,
they feel the same way you felt when you wrote it.

Speaker 6 (02:13:38):
Like it's one of those songs where it just catch
you no matter where you are, Like.

Speaker 5 (02:13:43):
It's an ultimate It's an ultimate craze song.

Speaker 6 (02:13:46):
How they go to a single. They didn't even want
the gospel song.

Speaker 3 (02:13:49):
And then it became a single because they playing they
were playing the album cut on black radio, right, they
had to make.

Speaker 6 (02:13:54):
So that Black radio made it a single.

Speaker 5 (02:13:56):
Yeah, they played it. I mean, you know, Donnie Simpson
ended in show, so he ended with a whole bunch
of black radio uh shows across the across the country,
you know, uh ended it with it. And and then
I did it at one of Black Black Radio Exclusive

(02:14:16):
b r E. Remember I was sitting Miller's things. I
closed up the closed up the whole uh uh convention
with that song.

Speaker 7 (02:14:24):
And so I remember from from like you did it
also on the Robert Townsend part of the Grime Robert Towns.

Speaker 5 (02:14:32):
Yeah, when Robert, when Robert got in touch with me,
that's because I'm still my boy. We we you know,
we're really good friends still now. But like when he
approached me about it, he called it and called and
asked and asked for a meeting. So I went over
to where he was doing some stuff and went into
the office and stuff, and he says, man, you know,
I'm getting ready to do my my uh my Partners

(02:14:55):
the Crime, my you know, HBO special, and he said,
I would love for you to do you say amen?
I said, oh man, that's what's up. Okay, that's cool.
I love to be honest. And then he says, I
want to sing it with you. Oh like and my mind,

(02:15:15):
you know, do you sing? I mean, I don't know
if you and I guess because I don't, you know,
my face kind of tells all kind of stuff when
I'm thinking. Sometimes unfortunate, but like, you know, he looked
at me and he said, hey, man, you know, this
is my first special, this is my first HIO special.
And I couldn't find I couldn't think of any other

(02:15:36):
way to thank God, you know, for this first special
thing in this with you, and it came off so
cool and and what was interesting about that was that
at the time when the Partners in Crime uh special
air I was my second solo album, had already been released.

(02:15:58):
I commit to Love was in the bend second oh forever,
and never was out. Yeah, I've already been released. But
once that, once Partners in Crime aired across the country,
you know, record stores had to reorder I Commit to
Love because everybody flowed, you know, flooded in, you know,
looking for say amen, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:16:19):
I was gonna say it was it was was this
the this is pre Sylvia Rome. So this is like
the Bob Maryland era of Electriob Merton. Bob Merland always
called Marland. Was he there at the time or is
it now? Well Rock President was ahead, but Merlin, Bob
wasn't there at the time, was he or did he
come in like eighty eight eighty nine?

Speaker 5 (02:16:38):
Okay, I don't, I don't remember him, but.

Speaker 2 (02:16:40):
That I didn't. I mean, but afterwards, did they of
course acknowledge that? Okay? You was he was on point
with this.

Speaker 5 (02:16:48):
Then, you know, because Bob and I had had had
created a routine of like whenever I would start, whenever
I get ready to start an album, I would I
would call it. If I was in the New York,
I go have a meeting with him. If I was
here and here's in New York. We we talk on
the phone and just talk about and talk about the direction,
talk about what I want to do, blah blah blah

(02:17:10):
blah blah. And at the end of every after say man,
at the end of every conversation, Bob say, well, I
know you're gonna do another one of those gods songs, right,
I'm gonna do another guy song.

Speaker 2 (02:17:26):
It's gonna be.

Speaker 5 (02:17:28):
Because, of course, after the success and the popularity is say, man,
of course it was. It was everybody's idea. Then you know,
wait they.

Speaker 2 (02:17:37):
Took credit for it.

Speaker 5 (02:17:38):
Yeah yeah yeah, so wait before we wrap, I got one.

Speaker 2 (02:17:42):
Unless you had something I just wanted to say, man,
show me, yes, thank you. I don't know.

Speaker 7 (02:17:50):
I don't know if you know, like how popular that is.
Me and my wife we danced a step that is
a very popular stepping song, you know what I mean.
But that's just I just a gorgeous song man, beautiful
performance everything.

Speaker 2 (02:18:05):
What was the inspiration for that? And what was it
like recording it?

Speaker 5 (02:18:10):
Don nettlesby and uh Terry Kochay. You know it was
this writing partner, Terry kole Fay. It was actually coffee,
he spelled it, but he wanted to co face. So
that's cool. That's all good, you know. So they wrote
this track. I forget how we got, I forget how
we connected, but they got this track to me, man,

(02:18:33):
and like and when when I heard this track, I
just moved into this new crib and I didn't have
any recording equipment up or anything. So I'm like, I
got this track, and I was like, man, this track
is amazing. It's an amazing, amazing track. And so I
didn't have any recording equipment set up, so I had,
but I had two boomboxes that recorded you did. So

(02:18:56):
I laid down in the in the middle of my
floor and up in my up in my bedroom, and
I had like probably a bottle red wine, you know,
and I put one box on one side, one box
on this I put concess in and I started bouncing things,
you know, from that, and I started coming up with

(02:19:17):
with h you know, different scenarios, different things I wanted
to think about things that romantic stuff that I wanted
to do with my woman, for my woman and all
that and like and then that hook came. And then
the hook was just so money man. It was just
it was you know, it was like you know, like
you do some songs in it in it and and

(02:19:38):
it's like fighting you pulling teeth to make just go
here and they fit melody and you know, uh, praising
life man, show me. It was like butter and it
just came down and were like you to let me know,
just to let this go, hell me show me, you know,

(02:20:06):
it's like and then the video was like crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:20:09):
Man, I remember that video. Yeah, of course you know
what was hated. Yeah we did, yeah, very much, so
very much.

Speaker 8 (02:20:23):
So I just wanted to say, if I was USh
must be a very religious experience. And the way that
you put these songs together and the way that the
at least the ladies or if some of the fellas
received them live, like do you see that in the
crowd do you see people responding in a way that's
like like most shows crazy.

Speaker 5 (02:20:42):
It's crazy. If I had a dollar for every time
a cat came up to me, man, you helped me out, Man,
i'd be I'd be a multi millionaire at this time.
And and like I always say, you know, my thing
is like, you know, some cats don't know what to say,
you know what I'm saying. So my thing is like, okay,

(02:21:05):
I'll give you what to say. You can say, listen
to Howard listen out show me uh once twice three times,
you know, and and listen to how I listen and
I tell them, now I can get you to the bedroom.
I can get you through the bedroom. Door, but you
got the bedroom with you, right, So I like all

(02:21:26):
the credit. And then when I do, when I do
the shows, I mean, it's so it's so beautiful because
you know, before BC, before COVID, anyway, I would spend
most of my time in the audience rather than on
stage because I like to I like to feel my audience.
I like to have them participate. And it's a beautiful

(02:21:46):
thing because you know a lot of cats, they're there
with their women and they're with the lady and their
pointing come sing to her. Yeah, you know, because she
ain't gone.

Speaker 2 (02:21:59):
Home with me? Right, I love it all Right?

Speaker 3 (02:22:04):
Well, I got to ask this one last question because
you know, I've asked one too many souldiering questions. But
I know that you took over the theme to the
show in eighty seven with George Duke. What was what
was the well, Like, what was the process? Like basically
Don just asked you guys to do it? Or like,
how how did that go down?

Speaker 5 (02:22:24):
Don asked George to do it, and George asked me
to do it. You know what I'm saying. So it
wasn't it wasn't a collaborative situation as far as I
ask concerned. But you know, George said, George, you know,
George and I wrote a bunch of stuff, you know,
through the years, and a bunch of theme songs for
this and and that and and I mean we did
a song for he said. He said, how I want

(02:22:47):
you to come write these lyrics, you know, for this
pop artist over in Japan. Right, I forget the cat's name,
he said, But you can't get deep. This dude is
not deep. You can't get deep. It's got to be shallow.

Speaker 2 (02:23:02):
So I love you, you baby. On my mind, I
think about that time.

Speaker 5 (02:23:08):
I wrote called New York Girl. You know, it's like
it's like, you know, I can't even remember the lyrics,
but but it was. That's the perfect But now with
the Souldier Award thing, uh don, George was taken over
all the stuff as far as that's concerned. And then
he asked me to come in and do uh do

(02:23:29):
some ad libs and stuff on the on the So yeah,
So what is.

Speaker 3 (02:23:35):
It, I guess in closing, what is it that you've
what is it that you've learned that made you a
wiser human being? Like it just in your your your
your journey mm hmm to this point that that's brought
you here to this day, that still has you here.

Speaker 5 (02:23:52):
You know, that's that's the deep question, because you know,
you learn so much on your way, in different scenarios,
in different places. I think one of the things though,
that's most important as as an artist for me and
as a man, as with your integrity, as far as
as concerned, is to let your yes be yes, and

(02:24:14):
your no byo no. You know what I'm saying, Understand
and do and say what you're gonna do, what you're
gonna You know, like I said in the earlier situation,
my word was was worth more even before I knew
that my word was worth more than than anything any
piece of paper I could sign. You know, your integrity
will follow you through this business closer than anything else will.

(02:24:38):
All you can do, you can do all that, you
can have all the hit records you want, all the
you know, the love people love. But if you are
a flaky person and and and and deal in uh
situations where your integrity is not you know intact, you
know is it doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't mean

(02:24:59):
because at the end of the day to day it's
going to be about who this man, what you as
a man is about what are you about? You know,
you can do all the music and people say, what
do you want? What do you want your music? Want
people to remember about your music? I want to remember
the integrity in my music that I stayed. I stayed

(02:25:19):
in av I have people saying you should put rapper
and you used to put a rap thing, you should
do some talk about you know, sex and all this
kind of stuff. Now that's not my lane. You know
what I'm saying. My lane is like here and stay here,
and I have to. When I got in this business,
I wanted to be I wanted to achieve longevity. I

(02:25:43):
didn't want to just come into this business, make a
couple of hit records and then go laid out on
the beach. You know what I'm saying. I wanted to
work at it. I wanted to work the work ethic,
what it takes to keep and stay and keep your
integrity in this business. And as a man, you know, man,
it's like you know where I where I've come as

(02:26:06):
far as where I am now, is that I can
look in the mirror and say I like that cat.
He's cool. It's all right, It's cool. You know what
I'm saying, and I've had my my, my, my craziness
and all that, but hey, it's about you know, praise God.
That's that's all I can say. Praise God.

Speaker 2 (02:26:27):
That's all you can say.

Speaker 3 (02:26:28):
Man, Well, thank you very much, brother Ewett, thank you
for doing our show. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 5 (02:26:36):
Pleasure, zero my pleasure, sugar.

Speaker 2 (02:26:38):
Steve, are you are you gearing up to.

Speaker 5 (02:26:40):
Say knocked out over there a minute ago?

Speaker 2 (02:26:45):
Now that's just the weired talking. I'm serious. I'm on
the scissor tonight. So you got a cold. I never
went fully unconscious. But wait, Steve, you're sick. Oh.

Speaker 8 (02:26:59):
I told you tell people that you got to do
disclaimers and stuff.

Speaker 6 (02:27:02):
You can't just put that out there.

Speaker 5 (02:27:05):
A good thing.

Speaker 8 (02:27:06):
We're on zoom, right, I said, But look they worked, Sieve,
like three hours ago.

Speaker 7 (02:27:16):
I was gonna say, Howard man, like some years ago.
This has been over a decade ago. I actually met you.

Speaker 2 (02:27:21):
I ran in you. It was real quick.

Speaker 7 (02:27:23):
It was an lax and if I'm not mistaken, I
think it was it was lax. But you were just
just as you are now, man, super cool. And I
just walked up. I was like, yo, man, I'm a
big fan and like you were just kind of low key,
so I didn't want to blow your spot up, you
know what I mean? Because I was like, all right,
I don't want to make people notice. And then it's
like thirty more people coming, so I just I was like, yo,

(02:27:44):
I'm a fan.

Speaker 2 (02:27:44):
Brother. He was like, thank you, man, like.

Speaker 7 (02:27:45):
Super cool, and I started the tweet. I was like, yo,
I just met how you and I thought, I was like,
I don't know what was he doing out here, so
let's me not I don't want to blow spot up
or whatever, but sneaking, you know, right, But you were
super cool, and I just I never forgot that man,

(02:28:07):
and just where you were a class act and you
still are.

Speaker 2 (02:28:09):
And I just thank you for the music and for
all your con man for absolutely.

Speaker 5 (02:28:15):
I always say, man, we're all in this thing together.
Ain't none of us getting out of this thing alive,
you know what I'm saying, So we might as well
might as well do this together and be as as
cordial and respectful and right, you know, as as possible. Unfortunately,
some of my peers, you know, use their celebrity as

(02:28:35):
an excuse to be rude to people. But you know,
it's like, especially in this business, it's like, we're not athletes.

Speaker 7 (02:28:41):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:28:42):
Sometimes athletes they want people to hate them because they'll
come to the stadium to hate them. But if in
this business, if somebody hates you, they ain't gonna buy
your records.

Speaker 6 (02:28:52):
Are customer service true?

Speaker 5 (02:28:55):
Truthactly?

Speaker 2 (02:28:56):
Well, we thank you for doing our show on behalf
of Scissor Steve and unpaid Bill. Putting the kids to
bed right now.

Speaker 3 (02:29:06):
Fontigelo and Laiya this quest love once again the immortal
Howard Hewitt Quest Love Supreme and we will see you
next go round.

Speaker 2 (02:29:15):
Thank you, yo, what's up?

Speaker 7 (02:29:19):
This is fante. Make sure you keep up with us
on Instagram at QLs and let us know.

Speaker 2 (02:29:24):
What you think we should be next to sit down
with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:29:29):
Peace Must Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Laiya St. Clair

Questlove

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Betrayal Weekly

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}QLS Classic: Howard Hewett