QLS Classic: Jermaine Dupri

Hip hop icon and R&B hitmaker, Jermaine Dupri, tells 30 years of industry tales from Fresh Fest days to career-reviving remixes.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
This is Sugar Steven on this week's Quest Love Supreme.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Classic hip hop icon and R and B hit maker Jermaine.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Dupree tell us thirty years of industry tales from fresh
best days to career reviving remixes. Originally released August twenty second,
two thousand and eighteen.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
Suprema Some Suprema roll call Supremo S Supremo. Ro called
Suprema Sun Sun Supremo, roll call Suprema s Sun Supremo. Roll.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
My name is Questlove.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, spitting hot tracks, Yeah, interviewing the man.

Speaker 5 (00:56):
Yeah, the world's loudest high hand long time.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Primo Supremo, roll called Suprema something Supremo, roll called.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
My name is Sugar.

Speaker 6 (01:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:09):
Money ain't a thing, Yeah, because I don't have much.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, sucks for me. Supreme Supremo. You're going against Suprema
something Supremo.

Speaker 7 (01:23):
It shows up the hook, Yeah, like escape second LP. Yeah,
Boss Bill is my name? Yeah, O quls with JD.

Speaker 8 (01:31):
Supremo, So Supremo, Ro Supremo Supremo roll.

Speaker 6 (01:40):
Yeah, what the legend a D. Yeah, I've been down
with him, Yeah, because that was.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
The roll Supremo Supremo roll call Suprema Son something Supremo roll.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
Yeah, it's all about me.

Speaker 9 (01:58):
Yeah, celebrating twenty five years in this crazy ass industry.

Speaker 8 (02:05):
Yeah, h Suprema Subpremah Yeah sure, Son Sun Suppreva Subreeva
Son Sun Supreme.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Question on
the Supreme.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
All right, I gotta get this out once in the open.
Why do you Why are your high hats so loud
on your record? That is you do you be the
only person that mentions, the.

Speaker 5 (02:36):
Only person that ever asks why?

Speaker 9 (02:38):
Right, and and I'm glad that you ask why because
I feel like I don't get the credit for high
hats being that loud on records. Now, and I'm glad
that you're saying that because I did that deliberately. That's
my thing to make you know, like when I first,
I'm gonna tell you where I got it from, right,
I got it from seven seven seven ninety three elevels.

Speaker 6 (03:06):
You have to ask because your.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Okay, all right, right, wait are you? Are we about
to break this art right now? I'll let the credit ahead.

Speaker 9 (03:35):
Ahead, I mean the way that I hats sound on
that record. That's the focus. When I was younger and
I wanted I was playing drums, that's all. I used
to try to play that beat, and my focus was
that high hat. So then, you know, for some reason,
when I started making beats on a drum machine, I

(03:56):
just wanted my beats to sound like that. So once
I started making one and people said something about the
high head, I was like, oh, okay, this is my thing.
So then I did it on You Make Me Wanted
with Usher record, and it was like, that's the first.

Speaker 5 (04:11):
Time you've heard the.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Loud as his voice.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
Yes, very loud, and that's how I wanted.

Speaker 9 (04:17):
I wanted you to be a turn the record down
as low as you can possibly turn it down and
hear the vocals and.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
The high hat though as well.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Now we have like techno, you know, technology that doesn't
we don't have to spin on records anymore, you know,
because we used tourvive and whatnot. But the thing is
is that, uh usually shuffles and high hats leave an
imprint on the wax.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Like if you look at Thriller.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
The shuffle of Billy Jean leaves a sort of spiral
design inside the actual groove of the wax.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
So you're very technical.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
All of your Wait a second, you're staring at the
final of.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Come on, let me tell you something. This is something
I noticed when I was like three years old.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
It looks like, yeah, the grooves of all the other
songs and thriller a look normal, but Billy Jean like,
that's when I noticed, like, oh, high end, high end
Fidelogy stuff. They leave an imprint on the wax, which
leads to any time I've spun anything produced by you,
especially money, ain't the thing. There's this whole what's what's

(05:28):
the game we used to get as kids where you
do like spy?

Speaker 1 (05:32):
What was the spiral graph? It's not a game? But yeah,
is that still a thing today? Or is that like
did I just date myself? Sigh? Where you were?

Speaker 5 (05:48):
I don't know what that is?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Come on, spiro graph, will you take us? They're like, okay, well,
this is a classic quest of Supreme where I didn't
even officially introduce our guests. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to
another episode. I had to get the high hair. I'm
a drummer. I had to get the high hat question
out of the way. All right, So another episode of

(06:11):
Quest Love Supreme. Hello, Team Supreme. I assume that Fante
is fixing his countertop or his pool or whatever. Yeah, exactly.
I will say that enough has not been said about
our next guest, and I believe that he also agrees
with me that enough has not been said about him.

(06:33):
That's sort of like one of the dangerous things about
hip hop culture, or this disposable hip hop culture that
we have, where you know, we discover great resources and
we use them to the hilt, and then we kind
of are onto the next thing, and revisionism sets in
and usually the person with the biggest check gets to

(06:54):
rewrite history, and suddenly everyone has a floggy memory on
who pioneered what and and Whatnotuh. But I will say
that numbers don't lie. And for thirty five plus years, uh,
our guest today has been a figurehead and hip hop
in all the areas, be it as a producer, as
a songwriter, uh for some of the defining moments in

(07:15):
hip hop and R and B culture, or as a
label head, a manager, and as an artist in his
own right. I can even say a dancer. This man
is connected to more people that I care to announce.
If I announced them all, the show will be over.
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest of Supreme, the
one and only it shouldaine pre who.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
What an in?

Speaker 9 (07:36):
I didn't use that intro my djama, I'm gonna use
that's what ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
So how's it going? Man? It's going all right? So
for our listeners, And I'm trying to pack every question
I can.

Speaker 9 (07:52):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
First of all, I was shocked you were born in Asherville,
North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Isn't that the hippie community?

Speaker 9 (07:59):
I'm I'm not sure I was. I left there when
I was two, Okay, because I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Usually for the roots, usually Asheville, North Carolina is like
it's it's such a.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Hippie territory.

Speaker 5 (08:14):
It's a mountain town.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
So yes, like some of the things of like the boundaries,
but times a billion, Like there's always jam bands performing
there and you know we've done many a show there.

Speaker 6 (08:26):
Because it sounds like jd ain't been back. You know,
I was.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
I was put in Atlanta when I.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Was two, Okay, So what what major family moved to Atlanta?

Speaker 9 (08:38):
Because Atlanta's the big city to Ashville, and you know,
North Carolina is like that's what they look to I
guess back then it is the place to go to
have like fun. Like it's almost like how people go
from La to Vegas and you know what I mean,
it's like that type of situation.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
I think, I see, I think so.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Uh, as far as you got in the business early,
But what described what life was like in Atlanta? Because
usually I'll say that for me, my first my first
education on Atlanta, especially being how old I was, or
the the the unfortunate, uh, the Atlanta child murder situation

(09:18):
with Wayne Williams.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Who looks.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Boss Bill looking at me like, don't say nothing out
the line, but then he kind of looked like Walter Clyde.
Orange mccommodore's oh my god, wow wow, now that you
said he looked like Walter Clyde. Everyone's saying their head Walter,
I love you your gruman. Anyway, that was my introduction

(09:43):
to Atlanta. But what was your childhood like in Atlanta?
Like did they always have culture?

Speaker 9 (09:48):
And yeah, I think you know, you know, skating for
kids was the culture of Atlanta. Like so when you
see like at that movie was basically what child on
my childhood was That was it for me to go
to skate rink. You get away from your parents, you
get to listen to music, you get to dance, you
get to skate, you get to talk to girls. Everything

(10:09):
happened at the skate rink. That was for young kids
anyway coming up. Basically that was it for me. And
then talent shows. Atlanta was full of talent shows. All
the schools had talent shows. And you know, I was
just doing that, hitting schools and doing talent shows and
going to skate rink.

Speaker 5 (10:26):
It was not really much.

Speaker 9 (10:27):
It wasn't really much of a music scene in Atlanta,
but it was a it was a scene for like
dancers and the culture, like I'm saying, like skating and
stuff like that. Musically, it wasn't really We had s
O S Band and we had Brick and that was
you know in Peebo Bryson and those were people was like,
you know, he was like Rick Ross and Atlanta back then,

(10:48):
like that was his that's Peobo's town. He had.

Speaker 5 (10:54):
He had the penthouse downtown. You know, you used to
drive by my days.

Speaker 9 (10:58):
Like that's that's Ale's house and she'd be like, man,
I'm gonna get me one of them shits one day
like he's just.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
You know like that. So okay, Yeah, So was your
father always in the music industry or Yeah?

Speaker 9 (11:10):
From from what I can remember, my dad was basically
like a roadie that turned into like a road manager
that turned into like a you know, a production manager
more than anything. Because my dad played drums, so he
was like more like a production guy for the drummers
of Brick and you know, so Os band, and then
he got into you know, morphed into more doing more
production for you know, doing more production for all of

(11:32):
these artists. And I used to just be there rehearsal,
watching and looking and then cameo and you know, it
started growing, but it was just those those were the
main artists in Atlanta.

Speaker 6 (11:42):
How old were you at that point when you were
watching these bands?

Speaker 5 (11:45):
Like nine.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
That sounds about right? Yeah, like nine that sounds about right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Now, uh, we've discovered here on Quest Loves the pre
met all the name brand super producers have some sort
of DJ history before they went into production. So did
you have any DJ history prior to your Yeah?

Speaker 5 (12:12):
I mean.

Speaker 9 (12:14):
Well, when I went on the Fresh Vest at twelve,
Grandmaster D basically was showing me how to DJ. Like
I didn't know what to scratch, like scratch. He showed
me how to scratch. I used to just want to
always scratch. I used to go BEHD the turntables while
they was doing sound check and try to scratch and
he's like, yo, you know, don't don't don't touch my
touch my set. I'm gonna show you how to do it.
So I kind of, you know, I can say I
got personal lessons from Grandmaster D and jam Ass the

(12:36):
j of how to actually DJ and you know, actually
scratch and you know, go back and forth on the records.
Like that's what my introduction to DJing. So then I
left the tour and went home and I told my
parents that, you know, I want turntables for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's so weird because like coming up because run DMC uh, well,
because Jay actually scratched or run DMC records. I always
wonder why Larry Smith never let Grandmaster D physically scratch,
not until like the third record, when the open Sesame record.
Then I finally heard scratch and I was like, oh,

(13:12):
he can't cut. But everybody and their mother swore to
guy that like Grandmaster D was like stealing the show
at the fresh Vest, doing like all these tricks on
his head and so he was a legit bona fide DJ.

Speaker 9 (13:26):
Okay, yeah, I mean he was, you know, all the
tricks and they'll pick him up and he scratched, you know,
he with his mouth on the cross fader and yeah,
he was doing it.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
He was going so.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Being as though the fresh Fest was the first major
stadium tour for hip hop one, how did you get
on the fresh Fest to what was that shit?

Speaker 9 (13:46):
Like? Well, I got on the fresh Fest because the
fresh Fest was created in Atlanta by a guy by
the name of Ricky Walker. Ricky Walker now create has
created Universe Soul Circus. Oh, the same guy. I created
that and then he went and did the circus thing now,
but he created the fresh Fest. And my father was

(14:06):
the production manager on the fresh Fest. And they just
needed to open act. You know, at that time, it
used to be like they need an opening act to
kill time or buy time or whatever it was. And
they just put anybody on, no in house music, playing
no iPods, yeah nothing, It wasn't nothing like that. They
needed somebody to you know, you know, I don't even
understand what that was. But they was buying time basically,

(14:26):
and you know, there was like we do y'all have
anybody to put on? And they suggested that I could
come out and dance, and they let me come out
and dance. And the show in Atlanta was the first
show of the fresh Fest and it worked well with
the time. So then it was like, well, can Jermaine
do this for the rest of the tour?

Speaker 5 (14:43):
And I ain't know what that was. My mother ain't
know what it was. Nobody knew what it was. Won
no money involved. It was just like, what was your routine?

Speaker 9 (14:50):
I had a dance routine where I came out to
its time and a couple of other records where I
just was just on stage freestyle and just dancing. And
I was little, so you know when you were a
little kid dancing the crowd goes crazy. So it was
like a it was kind of like the circus kind
of like you know what I mean, you just you
don't know what you're looking at. You it's watching and
it looks like I'm doing more than what I probably

(15:12):
was doing.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
So how many acts work or well, I know it
was fat boys who Denie and run DM Seed who
like I'm sure there had to been.

Speaker 9 (15:23):
GTFO was on the tour, Grandmaster Flash was on the tour.
Everybody was hot at that Arrow.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
Was on the tour.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
How long would each act get Probably.

Speaker 9 (15:33):
Like fifteen minutes. I mean they never had that many records,
and and Run Run was really like, you know, this
is my ship, so you gotta you know, oh, so
ill better hurry out, you know. Run Reverend Run had
a real you know, he had that real thing about him.
And Curtis Blow was on the tour, so it was
Curtis Blow, Run, DMC, the Fat Boys, who Denie, Grandmaster Flash,
the Dynamic Breakers, and I think Old Zon and Turbo WHOA, yeah, yeah, See.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
This is what I appreciate because I know as a youngster,
as a person that was young then you were definitely
in a fly on the wall situation.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Anyone else couldn't.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Like if I were whatever thirty plus years old at
the first, they'd be like, hey, get the fuck out
of it. But with you as a kid, I'm certain
that you allowed in spaces that.

Speaker 9 (16:20):
I wasn't supposed to be in. But at the same
time they was trying to tell me to get the
fuck out of there. But it was like I was
just like, no, I you know, I'm here, I'm not
paying attention to y'all doing this, and I'm not you know,
I've seen everything.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Anyone from that era never has a recollection like DMC
might you know. I'll ask him a few things and he, man,
my memory is fivevey, I don't remember man like you know.

Speaker 5 (16:40):
So I remember everything.

Speaker 9 (16:43):
And I've been trying to do this movie about basically
about my life kind of like that. And I've been
having people tell me that it's hard to do a
movie for a kid showing what I want y'all to
see that I saw.

Speaker 5 (16:59):
Go to Newtflix R rated and it's not.

Speaker 6 (17:03):
And it's not like a series too, because that's a
long life.

Speaker 9 (17:05):
That's that's I mean, I don't know how far to
get back, but I'm really more concerned about that because
what he's saying is that people, this is I know
the stuff. It's not even like history. It's like a
kid seeing what you don't understand. The kids saw like
I saw artists come to life, I saw artists doing drugs.
I saw I just saw everything that at twelve, you

(17:28):
don't really understand what you're seeing.

Speaker 10 (17:31):
And at the time, since you're going you're touring and whatnot.
Is your dad your only chaperone because he's.

Speaker 9 (17:36):
Working, not really chaperon. I'm out there basically by myself.
He's working, I'm running around all of these other guys
on my chaperones.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
That's why. That's why, like for.

Speaker 9 (17:45):
Really, that's why Houdini actually became like my brothers, and
you know, they became like the guys that was with
me all the time. Not that my father wasn't paying attention,
It was just that I saw that as a move
for me to start getting away from him and just
like hanging out more. And I wasn't like out late
at night and nothing like that. None of them, none
of the guys ever let me do anything like that.
It was just all about the tour and like when

(18:07):
the show was going on, I was everywhere at the show,
all over the place.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
This is this is how nerdy I am because it
didn't even occur to me to ask about like, oh,
the relationship you saw my nerd ass is trying to
figure out, well, wait a minute, what's the back line situation?

Speaker 1 (18:23):
So like what was sound check?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Like I know, monitors are ringing, like I'm trying to
figure out, like how does from a reduction standpoint, how
does the show run concurrently and smoothly without this DJ
being like who broke my mixer?

Speaker 5 (18:35):
And now they all had different sets, so it was
like it was like.

Speaker 9 (18:40):
Probably like five tables sitting in the back right, so
every time somebody come off, there'll move that table and
put that guy set up there, and nobody was nobody
was using the same turntables.

Speaker 5 (18:49):
That definitely wasn't happening on that tour.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
See, that error was scaring me because I know that
with dancers there's always skipping records.

Speaker 9 (18:56):
And that's what made jam Master J to me one
of the best live DJ ever because he knew, he
knew how.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
To you know, move in a land of where that
would never happen.

Speaker 9 (19:08):
He was like a drummer on He was like you
on stage, like he could really just like do whatever
he wanted with those turntables and make them, you know,
play the way he wanted them to play.

Speaker 10 (19:17):
So when they asked you, I'm sorry, I just want
when they asked you to do the record years later,
what was it down with the King Joint? Because that
was the that was the only time y'all worked together again.
The next Yeah, that must have been like a whole
full circle moment, since you know, going from a kid
and what you were saying, how you know, run with
such a boss on tour or whatever.

Speaker 9 (19:35):
I mean, it was all of us a full circle.
I signed who didn't need so Like it was a
complete full circle. Like I was a kid looking up
to these guys and they was teaching me and telling
me things, and then I felt so you know, connected
to them that I wanted to sign them and give
them what I felt like I was given to the
rest of the world.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
So when it was over, like the last day of
the fresh Vest, I don't even remember that. Well, well, okay,
were they all were? I know there were like two
or three Fresh fest Did you do it every year? Just?

Speaker 5 (20:06):
Yeah, eighty forty five and eighty six?

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Okay, So when the fresh Fest is officially over, like,
how do you return to normalcy? How do you go
back to Atlanta or whatever wherever your home base was,
assuming that you lived in Atlanta, Like, how do you
explain this to your friends?

Speaker 1 (20:23):
How do you explain what you saw?

Speaker 5 (20:24):
Like, well, that's that's what actually really happened.

Speaker 9 (20:27):
Is like when I was on I went on tour
at twelve, right, and in Atlanta wasn't a city that
was used to performing artists. We didn't we don't have
a performing art school or nothing like that. When when
I was twelve, so I was in a regular school
and I had a tutor. But when I came back
from tour and I took my grades back to the school,
the school system told my tutor that they couldn't accept it,

(20:49):
like they just like, we don't that's not We're not
used to this. We're not going to accept all of
this work. So I'm like, wait a minute, I did
this work. You're not gonna really make it seem I'm
not gonna ready be left back. I was on the
bus doing work like I had a tutor, So right
then and there, I was like, man, fuck this, I'm
not I'm not I'm not doing this. So it was
like my life changed right there, at like fourteen fifteen

(21:11):
years old. My life just changed. Was like I became
doing home study and I didn't go to school anymore.
And then it was just like the drive to make
sure that this didn't turn into something completely bad.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
But was it weird for you?

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Because you know, on tour, I don't know if you
had anyone to relate to that was your age. And
then you're not an environment in a school environment where
you have stop hops or a prime or you know,
just like regular.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
You know, sock hops causton. That's worse than this. What sop?
What's sop?

Speaker 5 (21:46):
What is that?

Speaker 1 (21:47):
That's the sophomore prime?

Speaker 5 (21:48):
What's a sop?

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Hop? Sp stop hops?

Speaker 6 (21:51):
I think.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Were you going to leave me out here alone? I
don't know because I heard you say sophomore shop shop
hops are.

Speaker 6 (22:00):
That's where John too, John, someone.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
That went to school in the eighties like that.

Speaker 6 (22:05):
It's a good reference.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
Please explained it to me.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I thought you said so right? Where I get it? Jay?

Speaker 5 (22:10):
You your I mean I was in two thousand, I
was twelve in the eighties.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
You're still twelve. Now, I get it what it was
you're young? I get it right.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Are like the senior dance things? You're going to your
junior prom, then you go on your senior prom.

Speaker 6 (22:26):
But it happened in the fifties.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
No, that's sock sock you're thinking of Greece. S o P.
I have a cold. So someone all right, okay, I'm
the oldest person in the room. Thank you, Steve. I
don't know what it is, your firstbeeing, your Hulu hoops,
your nerve fall. All. Right, here's here's my point.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
My point is that you know not I mean, I
don't know like what your relationships like with your cousins
or your like your your family, but just to not
to be isolated it from people your age, like, how
was it? Was it a lonely isolated experience where it's
just like hanging with these adults all the.

Speaker 9 (23:08):
Time and not nah, because I looked at it like
this was the only way I was going to get
close to what I was in love with at the time,
and these guys was dancing all day to turn you said,
you want to know what soundcheck was like? Soundcheck was
like because we had two stages. We had a middle
stage and we had a big stage right the rappers
was on the main stage, and then the stage in
the middle was all the dancers. So in soundcheck, all

(23:30):
the dancers would be out there dancing together at all
at one time, like just everybody dancing. So it's like
I'm getting the opportunity to see moves and all of
this stuff, and I'm not watching videos. I'm actually watching
this and I'm learning so it was to me it
was like being at school, but the school that I
wanted to be at.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
I first heard about you, like I before the internet,
right on magazine was like every every black teen is
like religion.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
You know what that is?

Speaker 5 (23:58):
J Yeah, yeah, okay, you better know.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
I think that was his first article.

Speaker 5 (24:03):
I was in there, shout out to Cynthia Horn and
she put.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Me in there. Yeah. I was going to say, d
do you remember being right?

Speaker 5 (24:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:09):
So I think at the time was sometimes Leather your
first project or how did you get into production?

Speaker 5 (24:18):
Well, let me sell you.

Speaker 9 (24:19):
Sometimes Leather were girlfriends of Hudini, right, Okay, So they
was out on the tour doing with the girlfriends out
on the tour do basically, and I was on the
side of the stage when these girls came up and
I was like, you know, checking them out. I'm young,
so I'm checking the girls out and they was you know,
they was a guy's performing. So then we just got
to know each other because they was out there like

(24:39):
I was out there and it was like, you know,
I'm running around, they running around. So then they picked
me up, take me what we go to catering or
whatever it is. Was something that had something to do
with touring. So, long story short, I learned that these
girls were from Atlanta. So then it was like, oh shit,
yeah from Atlanta. They was like, yeah, so we going
back home. When you get back home, call us and
we'll come pick you up. We got car, take you

(25:01):
get something to eat. They was really super nice and this,
that and the third. So when I got back at the.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Time, because I don't even remember it sometimes like now,
so they were older.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
Yeah that's not cool, but you don't remember.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
I remember.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
It's not good. I wasn't born then, Yo, you were
born when was on Yeah, that's when he was born.
When it came, when Rap City.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Came home whatever, all right.

Speaker 9 (25:23):
So so yeah, so you know they lived in Atlanta,
and basically at this particular point time, I was so
deep into hip hop and I was paying attention to
everybody's movement. And Herbie Lovebug was moving. At this particular
point time, he had Salt Pepper. I think he had
just dropped Kid and Play and Kwame was you know,
he had what I thought I was, you know, what

(25:46):
I was looking at trying to figure out, yeah movement.
So the girls, they was, you know, they was into
Salt pepper, and some kind of way, I found out
that they wanted to be rappers or they was rapping
or whatever, and out of nowhere, I just said, well,
y'all should let me write y'all songs. I don't know
what I was thinking about, because I ain't have no
drum machines or nothing, but I just felt like I
could do it. And they was like, Okay, well, how

(26:08):
are you gonna do it? And I'm like, we'll figure
it out, right, So, and I'm guessing that I'm thinking
that when I said this to them, I didn't. I
didn't think they was gonna take me up on it.
They called my phone when I got back home, or
they called my house and they was like, we're gonna
come over your house. So they came up with my
house and they came. They got really familiar with my
mom and got you know, really friendly, and my mother
trusted them, and I start going out hanging out with them,

(26:30):
and it was all about just hanging out. And then
I was always talking about making music. So then I
figured out how to call the drummer from Brick Eddie Irons.

Speaker 5 (26:39):
He was the drummer for Brick. I called him. He
had a studio called twenty five sixteen in Atlanta. So
I called him.

Speaker 9 (26:44):
I'm like, yo, I want to make some records and
he was like, okay, what you want to do and
I'm and I'm and I'm bartering his services. Yeah, I'm
bartering his services, like yo. And at this point, come fifteen, Okay, Yeah,
that's the thing that's amazing me because there's for you
soject either technically yeah, well nah, well yeah I did

(27:05):
so so ultimately, like my first song, Shoddy wrote my
first song and this is yeah. MC shoddy wrote the
first song that I ever did, and that he taught
me how to write songs basically watching him write this
song for me. So when he wrote this song it's
called It's Me that I used to perform on the
Fresh Fest, it was a song that he wrote, but

(27:25):
he wasn't really saying everything that I wanted to say.
So I was in this position where I had this
song while I was saying these lyrics that he wrote,
but I wanted to say something else, and I wasn't
skilled enough to change the lyrics. While I was on stages,
I thought I was just gonna destroy the song. So
so I did the song the way I had learned
the song because I wasn't skilled enough to change it,
but I knew in my mind I wanted to change

(27:46):
the lyrics. So long story short, he got me into writing.
So from the Fresh Fest. I came off the Fresh
Fest in eighty six with a rapping and writing songs, right,
so and and I jumped the piece because I met
Chad Elliott?

Speaker 5 (28:01):
Who was who was? He came in second place to
the Fat Boys in the Disco Fever dude.

Speaker 11 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, you remember crash Groove. Yeah, so he's real.
Oh my god, Yeah, where is Chad Elliott? He's here,
He's in New York.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Chad.

Speaker 9 (28:23):
Chad actually is gonna induct me into the Songwriters Hall
of Fame Thursday.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
Yes, so wait he has a oh some give you.
I'm gonna give you all this history.

Speaker 9 (28:32):
So so you know Chad, Me and Chad because you
said nobody I hung out with. So I met Chad
later on in the Fresh Fest in like eighty five.
So eighty eighty three, eighty four, eighty five, eighty forty five,
and eighty six was the fresh Fest.

Speaker 5 (28:49):
So in eighty five I met Chad.

Speaker 9 (28:52):
We started. They put Charlie Stetler. You know Charles Stetler,
you know child steps Man. Yeah, okay, Charles Stetler was
the fat Boy, his manager, He managed Chad. He started
managing Chad after the Disco Fever contest. He came to
the tour and said, if the Fat Boys stay on
this tour, y'all gotta put Chad Elliott on this tour

(29:12):
because Jermaine's opening. So he made Chad the second opener
after me. So it was like, I go in, Chad go,
and then people start trying to pit us together and
it never worked.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
We weren't you know, we didn't really care about it. Yeah,
well that didn't happen. It was just like kicking it.

Speaker 9 (29:26):
And then it was like we should be a group.
So this was like the first version of Chris Cross actually,
if you think about it, one dark skinned, light skin kid.
So fast forward to that, Me and Chad really start
hanging out. So at the end of the tour, you
want to know what happened at the At the end
of the tour, I moved to Brooklyn with Chad Elliott,
so he lives he lives in Brooklyn. I came here

(29:48):
to Brooklyn and I lived almost a year with him
in Brooklyn, basically soaking up every bit of hip hop
and New York culture that I could actually right rebit
of it everything.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Were you in Brooklyn eighty six, eighty seven, eighty eight.

Speaker 9 (30:03):
Yeah, right when everything happened, Everything's got you know, jay
Z's coming to life in Fort Green and Big Daddy
Knees recording demos in Fresh Gordon's house in Fort Green projects,
all of this stuff. I'm right down the street from
this and knowing that this is happening, right, So I'm
staying in in.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
Brooklyn on No.

Speaker 9 (30:25):
Stern, New York Street, Eastern Parkway just for anybody's listening to. Yeah,
who's staying over there? And I don't actually know that?

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, but yeah, that's right after there's a certain night
club I whant they ask you about? But yeah, I
was about to say, cueue that up? Do you have
a Latin quarter story?

Speaker 6 (30:43):
No, thank you Lord.

Speaker 5 (30:45):
I couldn't get in there.

Speaker 6 (30:48):
That was too young.

Speaker 9 (30:49):
So so yeah, So Chad actually introduced me to break
beats and the sound of New York at that particular time,
and that's when my appetite for production and making records
came to life.

Speaker 5 (31:06):
So what happened was.

Speaker 9 (31:07):
I would take break beats and I would play the
breaks and I would start writing, and I knew.

Speaker 5 (31:12):
That you had to, you know, catch the break and
play another one.

Speaker 9 (31:14):
So we was we you know, we had a box
and we started pause taping and making these beats with
break beats. So that's basically how I started. So when
I got back to Atlanta, that's the part of the story.
That's when I made the call and I'm like, yo,
I want to.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Make some record culture to Atlanta.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
Well, I don't think people heard it.

Speaker 9 (31:32):
That's what made me become more of a producer because
I told this guy sample these beats.

Speaker 5 (31:37):
I told him, I want this beat to be the song.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
What was your weapon of choice back then? Like? What
machine did they?

Speaker 5 (31:45):
I mean, I think they had.

Speaker 9 (31:46):
He had a what was it, DM DMX That's what
he had, right, So you couldn't really sample. So then
I found these these white guys across on the other
side of town. They had an emulator. Emulator could sample,
so I'm like, shit, they could do it with this machine.
They didn't want to do it either. They didn't understand

(32:07):
what I was saying. It was like, you want us
to take people's music and I'm like, yes, take moral culture.

Speaker 5 (32:12):
I'm like, yo, take the beat.

Speaker 9 (32:13):
I want to wrap over this beat. So then they
try to recreate the breaks with drum sounds and I'm like, ew, like,
this is not what I'm talking about, right, So the
frustration of this made me become a producer. So then
I just started like, I'm gonna figure this out.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
See this is weird. So you're the first person of
a note that I know that's not from New York.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
That persisted until they found a satisfactory production technique that
they knew in their heart they felt with hip hop
because usually anyone else that I talked to from other territories,
it's just like, okay, well I'll just do it on
the drum machine, and you know, I hate it.

Speaker 5 (32:55):
I hate it.

Speaker 9 (32:56):
Like when I heard you, I was like, oh my god,
this is is he real? Like this guy understands what
I'm talking about. I'd be hating to hear drummers just
play beats and it don't sound.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Like like that.

Speaker 5 (33:07):
I wanted to sound like, like, tune the snail a
little bit, make it do something right. So this was
what I was going through.

Speaker 9 (33:13):
So the frustration that I was going through and not
hearing beats the way I wanted forced me to become
a producer and start like hitting the drum machines and
whatever whatever. So long story short, I got in there
and I started getting Eddy to, you know, let me
touch the drum machine and give him ideas about the
Silk Times Leather record. And I wrote a song called
the Woman in Me or something like that, and I think, no,

(33:36):
work it out, work it out by Silk Times leathern
we gotta deal with Warner Brothers.

Speaker 5 (33:40):
They got signed.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Okay, yeah, they was pretty girls.

Speaker 9 (33:43):
And you know, I think that's what they was going
for more than the music. They didn't really care about
the music. They didn't really care about me. But I
think they was into the girls and they thought they
could sell them based on how they look.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
So at what point are the training wheels taking off?
And then you are like, okay, I can make these beats.
Now supposed to sample this and sample that?

Speaker 9 (34:02):
Well, Silktimes Love I think they sold fifteen thousand copies.
So fifteen thousand copies to the writer of all the
music is like, you know, fifteen thousand dollars maybe or
something like. You know, So I took that money and
I went and put my drum machine on Layoway and
I got a five h five drum machine. I put
on Layoway right because I didn't really have all my money,
but I had enough to put the drum machine on Laiway.

(34:23):
When I got the back end of my money, I
went and got the drum machine. So then I start
making beats, but the beat still didn't sound like I
wanted them. So I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna
make this beat of how I wanted to be. When
I get to the studio, I'm gonna change the sounds.
I'm gonna have him change the sound. So I started
going to the studio and I was telling Eddie changed
the sound or the kick. I wanted to sound like this,
and I wanted to sound like this, and nobody was

(34:43):
getting what I was saying. It's like, okay, this is
just killing me. So then I got another check from
the Silk Times Leather album that allowed me to get
en Sonic EPs. Ah okay, right, So when I got
the n Sonic EPs, I thought I had walked into
heaven because I could sample and I could do everything
that I've been telling everybody else to do.

Speaker 5 (35:03):
So I just stayed up night after night after night.
I stayed. I ain't read nothing.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
I just read.

Speaker 5 (35:13):
I don't read nothing.

Speaker 9 (35:14):
I just started messing with it because I because I
already dreamed that. They told me at the store that
it would do what I wanted. So if I'm thinking,
if you tell me it's gonna do what I want,
then I'm gonna start trying to do what I want.
I seen the sample button. I'm trying to do what
I want. And I learned immediately that it didn't do
what I want. But you know that's the learning car thing.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Yeah, I caught on.

Speaker 9 (35:33):
So with that, I just started making songs because the
EPs was easier, And I started making songs and just
doing my own little demos. And I met Left Eye
and then she started living with me, and she was.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
So she moved from Philly to Atlanta.

Speaker 9 (35:48):
Yeah, okay, So she moved from Philly to Atlanta, and
she hooked up with this guy named Ian Burke who
brought her to my house. Now I didn't have nothing
at this and I just had equipment that I had
just bought, and I was working, and he was like,
you should go over to Jad's house and y'all work.
So she came up to my house. We started working
and we was writing songs basically together. And then I
went to the mall with the DJ from Silk Tom's

(36:11):
Leather and I saw Criss Cross and they was in
the mall already just chilling.

Speaker 5 (36:16):
So that's a real story, Okay.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
All this time I thought, I was like, Oh, that's
marking a story like church.

Speaker 5 (36:23):
One real story. I went to the mall.

Speaker 9 (36:26):
I'm in the mall shopping and I'm looking in the
corner and it's these kids that people are actually paying
attention to. And I'm like, why are y'all paying so
much attention to these kids? And I'm thinking, like, okay,
maybe it's like one of these Nickelodeon groups. I don't know,
something like that. So I walk over to him. I'm like, yo,
what's up? They like, what's up? I'm saying, like, what
do y'all do? They're like, we don't do nothing. We
just kick it, Like y'all just kick it. I'm like,

(36:48):
why is people? Why the girls like all that y'all
and they like, that's cause that's what we do. We
got girls like that. What's happening? And it was like
eleven eleven eleven eleven, twelve years old, and I'm like,
they knew what swag was. They swag was. They was
the definition of swag to me at that time, I
didn't even have that type of swag.

Speaker 5 (37:06):
I was just trying to be a producer.

Speaker 9 (37:08):
These guys was in the mall flexing, talking to girls,
spending money, all kinds of things and getting sneakers. So
I was like, damn, where y'all get all this from?
All y'all a group. They're like, Nah, we don't rap,
we don't do none of that. We just come to
the mall.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
We cool.

Speaker 9 (37:22):
Everybody like us because we cool, and I'm like, okay.
Immediately I just stopped and my mom was like, s
if I write them a song.

Speaker 5 (37:33):
This shit is gonna go.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Did they know who Jermaine Dupre was?

Speaker 10 (37:36):
No?

Speaker 9 (37:37):
They thought I was like a pervert or something. I
swear they thought they was like, why do you want
my number? Because I asked them for their number. And
then luckily one of the the mothers, one of their mothers,
walked up and she read Jet magazine. So in the
Jet magazine that had just come out, there was like
a little issue about article about female rappers and it

(37:57):
had Salt and Pepper and the girls grew girl groups
that are coming behind them, and Silktimes Love It happened
to be one of those groups. So she recognized the
DJ from being in the Jet magazine, so she was like,
I know her. I seen her in the Jets, So
they are somebody that saved me because Chris, and Chris
was like, nah, I'm not giving you my number like
you said.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
It was or in Atlanta about the.

Speaker 9 (38:19):
Missing, missing and murdered kids, and they was from that neighborhood,
so you know, it was a stranger danger, you know
of a situation. So I'm telling them like, y'all want
you to come over to my house and kick it,
and they were still like come over to your house
and kick it?

Speaker 5 (38:33):
What is what are we doing?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Like?

Speaker 9 (38:34):
Cause they weren't into music, so they didn't even understand
what I was trying to get them to do. So
you know, that passed and I would like go get
them from school and just try to hang out with them,
and I become their friend more than just talk about music.
So I did that and then I started noticing that
they was in the back seat rapping to music that
I was playing and they was rapping all the lyrics

(38:55):
and really doing that shit in the car like that.
Ice Cube America's Most Wanted the whole album.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Wow, I heard pays some mother fuck.

Speaker 5 (39:05):
They was going crazy in my car.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Let's word for me, Tomath.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
The kids actually gravitating towards it that I actually like
because usually, like the generation with the Divide, kids are
always liking the ship that I don't like.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 7 (39:17):
I was about the same age as as Chris Carson
came out hold On and like America's Most Wanted, like
ice Cube was my shit around and avoidable.

Speaker 9 (39:23):
Yeah, that's that's what they was like ice Cube fanatics,
but it's all they wanted to hear was ice Cube.
So we play a whole ice Cube tape from their
house to my house, and they was rapping all the lyrics.
So I was thinking, like, okay, so if they like
this like this and they rapping every word and they
doing all the inflections, they sound just like he sound
when he moves his voice. I said, if I figure
I how to do that and write a song for

(39:44):
them that they like, they possibly could do the same
thing for me. So then I just went in the
house and I told them, so, I'm gonna write a
song for y'all and if y'all like it, I need
you all to rap it, just like y'all doing this
ice cube shit. And they was like, okay, whatever. So
I did this song where I sampled Michael Jackson and
Paul McCartney called the Girl's Mind, and I was trying
to make them fight about the girl is Mine. And

(40:07):
this was the song that I wrote and I sampled
Paul McCartney Michael Jackson, and I put Left Eye on
the record because she was the girl.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
Girl listen, listen never she's the girl.

Speaker 9 (40:28):
So it was like my idea, like the girl is mine,
he's Paul McCartney, he's Michael Jackson, and she's the girl.

Speaker 5 (40:33):
This was my whole little scheme.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Okay, even though you won't let the public ever hear this.
Do you know where that tape is?

Speaker 5 (40:40):
I mean, it's a tape. Yeah, I know, it's a tape.

Speaker 9 (40:42):
Okay, So you know that was the beginning. I'm starting
to make these songs. And then I realized that they
weren't Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. They were little ice
cubes like they want. They were from the south west
side of Atlanta, which people call the Watots, that's where

(41:03):
they're from. And they would come home from school and
tell me stories about how Jamay, you don't even know.
It's little kids in my school. It's eleven years old.
They selling all a dope. They got all the dope,
and they had like socks where they wear shorts and
they have like multiple socks and they put all the
work inside the socks and they go to school. So
they used to give me all this game and I
ain't know about because I didn't finish school like that

(41:23):
and I ain't go with these kids. So I used
to just listen to them and be amazed, like damn,
this is crazy, and I'm like, who knows about this?
So then I just start thinking about them wrapping ice
cube and the stories they was telling me, and I'm like,
little boys in the hood, this is what y'all are.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Y'all are little boys in the hood.

Speaker 9 (41:41):
It's boys in the hood with y'all are little boys
in the hood, and y'all see the crazy shit that
everybody else sees, but don't nobody actually believe it. So
that was my goal to write a song called Little
Boys in the Hood. I wrote this song, and I
sent the song to Jodah Butcher and Pilly. And when
I sent the song to Jodah Butcher, he hit me
right back like I love it, let's sign them. And
I was like, what, oh shit, we got a deal.

(42:02):
Just like that, he was ready to go. So then
he brought us the rough house for basically it wasn't
real deal. It was you know, development deal. So it
was a five song development deal. I didn't have five songs.
I had four songs, and he was like, well, we
need five songs. So on the night or the day
before we was going to Philly, I wrote jump.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Classics always written.

Speaker 5 (42:31):
I wrote this song. I wrote this song in thirty minutes.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yo, everything song?

Speaker 6 (42:36):
Where did it start from?

Speaker 11 (42:37):
What?

Speaker 6 (42:37):
Jump start?

Speaker 9 (42:38):
Like?

Speaker 6 (42:38):
What was the first thought in your mind?

Speaker 5 (42:40):
Kids?

Speaker 9 (42:41):
Something something something kitty, something kitty. So I went after
Michael Jackson like he was a kid. This was they
was they was kids. So he was a kid artist,
sample something Michael Jackson. So I started playing with the
turntables and I heard this ABC and I was like,
I shouldn't let it play all the way out of
shitch it and just catch something. And I don't know

(43:02):
what made me do that, and I just caught the
first part boom boom boom, and I left it and
I was like, this ship sounds crazy. I went back
and I did it again. Boom boom stopped it and
I'm like, I'm not letting the.

Speaker 5 (43:12):
Rest of it play. I'm gonna just keep doing like that.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Wait mother trying to wait to do not say do
not say it like we all know that's I want
you back, And.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
I mean I said the wrong song. My bad.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
I got to say, come on, dog, you know that
I do now.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
I want you, I said a b C. I said
ABC because I was she still.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Didn't know that I want you.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Here's the ship that's killing me. The ship that's killing
me was the whole genius of that song is the
fact that you managed to find a way to make
funky worm oh sh match perfectly in key. I mean, look,
I love the bomb Squad to death, but we know
the calling card was just throw it on the wall
and see what works. They were not atonal and you

(44:16):
know radical. So when I first heard that ship, I
was like, yo, there's some genius ship, Like how do
he know that these ships are going to seem to
be in the same bpms and in the same key.
So I'm thinking this whole time you scientific experience. But
as with every producer that comes on the show, their
their PEACI resistance is always like some afterthought, like ten

(44:39):
minutes ship, like I got, well, no, what the.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
Funky worm part. I played with it for a minute
to get it to sound like that, or you bend
it down to yeah, yeah, yeah, I was.

Speaker 9 (44:50):
That was that was like, oh, let's go, because you know,
like I said, you got to think about it. I
just explained to you exactly who Chris Crust was. Chris
Cruss was two kids from the Hood that I was
in love with, the West Coast Rappers basically ice Cube
at that point in time, right, So the Funky Worm
was me grabbing what I thought was the West Coast
for them so that they would like it. The sample

(45:13):
was me trying to find something that was like Kitty
because Michael Jackson was a kid in this era. So
I was just trying to put all these elements into
this one song out of every song. I mean, we
already had to deal with little boys in the Hood,
but I was just like, it could be better than this,
and it could be better than this, and I just
started and I started thinking about every element of hip
hop that I could give these kids, because I knew

(45:34):
that they could rap at this point, like if they
was really rapping what I was doing, they I mean,
for whatever reason I said they could rap, they was rapping.
Whatever I sent them, they would do it. So I
was like, shit, let's diss ABC and let's just let's
just go all the way here.

Speaker 10 (45:53):
Can I just asked, this might be a crazy question,
But now that the bail is up and Chris I
know now that Chris Cross didn't write their lyrics leave
me alone? Is that that was a surprise me A
little bit just not a little bit of a surprise.
I thought more of a collaboration. But does that mean
the same thing for another bad creation in that way?
Like I used to to assume that, like Michael Bimins
did the same thing.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
You were. I get it.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
I get it.

Speaker 10 (46:18):
The first like child rappers or bow Wow, the first
kid rapper to really start writing.

Speaker 5 (46:23):
Then you know.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
JD wrote everything.

Speaker 6 (46:26):
No, he didn't know bow Wow wrote some stuff? Right,
come on?

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Can I get to the science of him as a producer?
I'm sorry, question, but listen, wait, act, but I'm just
saying that in terms of of of who taught you,
because this is the thing. You're the first producer that
I've spoken to since the show that it is putting

(46:52):
marketing savvy also in his production thoughts, because even me
as a producer, I'm certain that there's some you know,
like the equivalent of when you lose your glasses and
they're on your forehead. Now I'm thinking like, damn, what
hopper shit should the Roots have done to really grab
fans of like live music that we didn't do? Because

(47:14):
never once in my history did I think of, Oh,
what's what's the marketing thing?

Speaker 1 (47:19):
We need? A new earthworod and fire. Why don't you guys?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
You know, I'm I've never heard a producer talk like
a manager. So what I really want to know is
where did you get your manager marketing savvy from?

Speaker 5 (47:33):
Because that from the doors being closed? Right.

Speaker 9 (47:35):
So, when I was here in New York and I
had Silk Times Leather, I knew Red Alert and Chuck
Chill Out from being on the Fresh Fest and I
knew them as a kid. And then when I started
making records, I'm thinking like, oh, I'm gonna just run
up on here and they gonna play my records.

Speaker 5 (47:47):
It's cool. I know these guys.

Speaker 9 (47:49):
So I went up to you know, to radio shows,
and Red was like, this shit is wack, like this
ain't this, ain't no, this ain't a ork Jed.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
And I'm like, and they told you at the time,
you're like fifteen.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
They told me.

Speaker 9 (48:01):
And they also was like, Atlanta's not you know, it's
a country y'all niggas country and blah blah blah blah.
So I started building this mindset that it was gonna
be hard for me to make music anyway or to
put my music out because people weren't gonna listen to it.
That's what I just started thinking. So I started thinking
about everything that I could possibly do to get people
to pay attention to my artists besides the music as

(48:25):
well as the music. So and then left I was
big on helping me do that because she was starting
to put this condom over her left eye and just
thinking of crazy shit. So I was cutting my eyebrows off,
and I was doing all you know, haircuts and ear
rings and nose and we was doing everything that we
could possibly do to make people pay attention to us.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Right.

Speaker 9 (48:44):
So then it was like, we need something else. We
got the song I got jumped, We need something else.
When I did a jump. When we did jump, they closed,
weren't even on back was when we did jump, they
didn't have braids. Let me say this, they didn't have
braids on the first on the jump cover. They don't
have braids. If you look up, they got fla they
got flat tops, right, they didn't have braids. So then
it was like, we gotta take this another level. We

(49:05):
gotta take it to another level. We're gonna go to
the mall. You're gonna put your jump on backwards, and
we're gonna see how this works. And they was like
why and I'm like, just listen to me. Put the
jump on backwards. He had to jump on already. I
just said, flip the shit around.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
Let's go to the mall.

Speaker 9 (49:18):
He put his jump on backwards and we went to
Linux Square and it looked like he had a sign
on his chest that said come towards me. People was
walking up to this kid, and I was like and
I just sat back, like, oh, this is it. It's
over It's over with.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
This is over with.

Speaker 9 (49:33):
Because once these people hear this song and they see
that they dressed like this were gone And I don't
know what was the attraction with the backward James.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
It just happened like that.

Speaker 6 (49:41):
You don't know what made you go turn it around
or do something I do.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
No, I mean, he's the only person I knew that
spoke of a marketing angle and shit that I never
even once bothered to think about.

Speaker 5 (49:53):
Yeah, we was trying to do things.

Speaker 9 (49:55):
We was in the house making tied our shirts and
tied our jeans and just trying to you know, because
you ain't got shit, you try.

Speaker 5 (50:01):
To make something right. So that's what it was.

Speaker 9 (50:03):
We didn't have nothing, so it was like, what can
you do to make that sweatshirt look better than what
it does?

Speaker 5 (50:08):
Right now? Cut the sleeves off. You know, we just
try anything right.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
So it's just to try to get attention and put
the word quest love over it.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
And that.

Speaker 9 (50:19):
This jumper was already one hundred sizes too big. It
was like a Jibo jumper where you could get in
there with him, right, So it's just like just flip
it around, just flipping around. So he flipped it around
and it you know, people were like bugging out, like
where did you buy this at?

Speaker 5 (50:33):
And I'm like, it's the same shit you got on.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
But were they fearless enough to be like any crazy shit,
I'll do it, because I would have.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Been like.

Speaker 5 (50:43):
They they started doing talent shows.

Speaker 9 (50:46):
I started taking them to do talent shows and performing
songs before we had jumped. So they started getting the
bug to be artists. And they started seeing how more
people liked him than what was liking them in the mall.
So once you get that going, then you start trying
to make sure that people recognize you.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
So how did you feel about when another bad creation
was starting to garner steam and you know, in your
head you're like, Okay, this is good for us, like
we have someone to compare them to, And no.

Speaker 9 (51:12):
Nah, I wasn't really paying too much attention to that.
It's time because another bad creation is from College Park.
We all from College Park, right, say all of my
like me and Dallas Austin is like this, that's my dude,
Like so we all they was all at my house,
Like when.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
He making ABC, I was at the studio with him.
He was doing this, like we all cool.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
They feel a certain way with inside out that.

Speaker 9 (51:36):
I mean, you know, at one point it was like listen,
JD got a little boy group. We got a little
boy group. It's a competitiveness going on. So I started
feeling that this competitiveness of people talking. So I was like,
you know what, y'all gonna be real rappers. And if
you're gonna be a real rapper, we're gonna We're gonna
make sure that people know that they want to be
an R and B group and y'all over real rappers.

(51:57):
And that's the only way we could make people understand
that was to say something about them.

Speaker 10 (52:01):
So at this point, how are you splitting up your
brain because you said that you and Left Eye or
y'all are friends. She just got to the condom in
the eye and where is the where's the TLC bus?

Speaker 5 (52:13):
No, no listen.

Speaker 9 (52:14):
So at the same time that I'm making Chriss cross,
Ian introduces Left Eye to t Bos. So then they
become a group in my house called second Nature and
they become my group. And the way t Bos sings
is did Jermaine do pre style of singing? Like the

(52:35):
way she sounds? The way reason why she sounds that's
me because you can hear me, that's me doing that. Now,
that's how she sounds because I demoed the songs and
I told her she should sing like me and for
the rest of her life. I mean, it became the
It just became the cool thing for her. So the
first song that I did for her was this song
called I Got It Going On and it was like,

(52:57):
oh God, it going and that's the tone that she took.
And Dallas heard that and started making these TLC records
and they used that tone for the rest of her
their career.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
But why didn't you.

Speaker 5 (53:13):
Sign them?

Speaker 9 (53:14):
Because the boys got signed first, right, So I was
more connected to Chriss Cross and more into their project, right,
and then left. I called me one day and she
was like, Yo, we just had this meeting with Pebbles.
If y'all watch the VH one movie, she makes this
phone call and she calls somebody, but they don't say
it's me. She's calling me, and she's calling me to
see if I'm cool with them having the meeting, right,

(53:37):
And I said, yeah.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Go ahead having me. I'm cool.

Speaker 9 (53:40):
At that point, I wasn't thinking about having all of
the artists under my unbrother. I was thinking about them
getting signed so I could get some more money to
make records. So I was like, shit, if they gonna sign,
you just make sure I produce it when I get
some money. So I encouraged them to get signed to
the face and you know that was my group walking
out the door.

Speaker 5 (53:58):
But they all started at my house.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
With UH. I believe.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
I believe my internship at UH at Roughhouse was the
first day that you guys went to Europe to open
up for Michael Jackson. Because I know, I know that
Chris Cross opened up for Michael Jackson on the Dangerous Tour.
Then yes, so what was were you a part of

(54:36):
their setup it?

Speaker 1 (54:38):
What was that ship like?

Speaker 2 (54:39):
And how could like where the audience is as familiar
with you guys there as it was in the States.

Speaker 9 (54:47):
Totally jump was crazy, Oh it did. Being on tour
Michael Jackson was just like nothing that you could ever imagine,
you know what I mean. It's like the way this
guy came into his show. Just just the whole setup
of the whole ship, like save f instance, this was
like the cafeteria area when you're eating right, and you

(55:08):
know how cafeterias are when you're in tour, it's the
open or it's a place that you go into. Well,
on his tour, it was always an open space. They
did it in the open space. They didn't do it
inside the thing because he wanted everybody to see when
he was coming in, and how they draped us off
so we wouldn't see him where he went.

Speaker 5 (55:25):
It was like like they would like, he's coming.

Speaker 9 (55:28):
So you're sitting there knowing that he's going, and he's
walking by, but you could see him on the way
in because he had a police following him.

Speaker 5 (55:40):
He would do this was real ship.

Speaker 9 (55:42):
He would come in and then he'll cross and then
he would and he would you know, he had He
would tell the managers, you know, tell Chris, I'm in
the you know, I'm in my dressing room, come hog,
let me whatever before they whatever. So he never let
me go because it was just like, you know, not
too many people go in the dress room. So christ
Nam there go back there kicking with them, and they'll
come back and they be like, yo, he fucking with us,

(56:02):
Like he really be like he know who we are?

Speaker 5 (56:04):
Da da da da dah.

Speaker 9 (56:05):
Because that's why I was always trying to figure out
if Sony made the move, because everybody was on Sony
to put crisscross on there, and he was really more
like really focused on Crisscross being on his tour, and
he liked the fact that they.

Speaker 5 (56:17):
Was young and they had that energy to give before
his show came on.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Was it was it easy to teach them, like, uh,
things that you don't learn. Uh you know, I mean
they're they're in stadiums, in soccer stadiums. I know he's
playing like eighty five thousand people, Like, how do you
teach them how to project to eighty five thousand.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
People's That's what I tell people all the time.

Speaker 9 (56:44):
You know, I got this TV show, The Rap Game, Well,
I teach these kids and I try to tell these
kids all the time, like everybody think they can rap,
and everybody think they got the swag, but they ain't
really got that shit like what I've seen Crisscross, Like
I said, when I met them, they had a whack
that I had never seen in eleven and.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
Twelve year olds.

Speaker 9 (57:03):
So they was instantly easy to grab on to what
they were supposed to do to continue to have that
swag that they thought they had before. So when their
record blew up, they was doing shows every day. Chris
Cross was like the first rap group to do K
and O Summer Jam. Then catch a helicopter to do
Power one oh six in the same day, and then

(57:25):
get on a plane and come back to New York
and do something the next day.

Speaker 5 (57:27):
Like that's how they was. They were performing because of
that song.

Speaker 9 (57:30):
So they got the practice in and they got enough
practicing to know that when we get out here, we're
gonna go into a stadiums.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
They their mentality was we gonna kill this, and they
just was into it.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Was it overwhelming for them, Like it's to start at
that level, Like how do you how do you come
down from that level when you're you know, one of them.
I'm certain that you didn't have any idea that this
I just want to sound like seven eight million units.

Speaker 5 (57:57):
Yeah, you don't know what to do. You're just going
with the flow, you know.

Speaker 9 (58:01):
It's like I said, it's like a it was a
thing that wasn't even supposed to happen, and I've learned
that these kids could rap and they did it and
it just turned into that and you just like sitting
back watching like this is crazy.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
And it wasn't hard to keep them focused at all
on nah.

Speaker 9 (58:14):
I mean, because like I said, once again, once they
realized that they was rappers, and people was looking at
them like this. They were so into it.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
I wouldn't. I didn't have any problem they was so
their appetite was worse than mine.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
So it was through them that you got to develop
your label.

Speaker 9 (58:30):
Yeah, so Chris crossed SOA eight million, and then Sony
wanted to do more business with me, right, and they
wanted me to have my own label, and they wanted
to see what I could bring. They didn't know they
I was nineteen years old, by the way. They didn't
know what I could do.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
So what did you see an Escape that told you, Okay,
you guys are next. I see how I can well.

Speaker 9 (58:47):
Escape came to my house. The same guy I who
brought Left out of my house. He brought Escape to
my house to sing for my birthday. And there was
this girl group from College Park that was out there
doing things and they came and they sung Happy Birthday
to me, and I was just like, y'all sound different
than regular happy birthday than I'm usually here. I'm just
I'm liking this happy birthday, right, So I'm like, when

(59:09):
I get my label, I'm gonna sign y'all. And they
was like, yeah, okay, what if I ain't have social death.
I just told them I was gonna do it, same
thing I did with Sometimes, Like I just said, I'm
gonna do it. I ain't have no label yet, but
I knew I was gonna get one because we was
selling too many records. So they came and like, I
got my deal, and I'll call in. I say, y'all
want to sign these girls? And at that point, I

(59:31):
knew that I had to define myself as a producer,
because that's what I wanted people to pay attention to me.
As as a producer, you have to show people that
you have the skill to do more than what people
thought you could do as you know, just rap music
or whatever.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
This that and the third. And I had all of
this other.

Speaker 9 (59:48):
Musical talent inside my body that I hadn't let out
on the Crisscrush record. And I signed Escape and I
started writing their songs. And the first song I wrote
for them was just kicking It and I, you know,
and and I made Candy sing just like I made
Tea Boss sing that's why She's low in that song,
and you know, it was the same. I had already

(01:00:08):
been setting myself up for this type of stuff, so
I just was sending whoever came in through the same
process that I had already started earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Now, I mean around ninety three, ninety four, ninety five.
I mean we're getting into what I feel like the
true the business element of hip hop, where now bad
boys developing, bad boys developing, Death Row's developing. But then
there's also like kind of we're entering the danger zone,

(01:00:36):
like it's not well. I mean, you've been around since
you was twelve, so I'm sure you saw some dark
shit that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
You know, yeah, twelve years shouldn't be seeing.

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
But I mean I've seen people get stabbed after midnight
in Philly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Jesus Christ the spaghetti Factory.

Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
I wasn't born yet.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
It was on Spring Garden Spring Gardens who anyway, but it's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
At least at that time in ninety four, I considered, okay,
now the business mecca to be New York, which is
Puffy La, which is sug and Atlanta which is you
and Okay, I'll throw in uh Houston, which, of course
because I fear for my life.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Jay. Friends.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So now that you're you're empire, how do you deal
with the not the muscle aspect, but now you're playing
with the big dogs, and you see what's going on
rivalry wise and all that stuff. You've kind of been
Switzerland with all this stuff. As far as Neutral been
cool with New York Cats, he's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Been cool with LA.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
How hard was it to maneuver, you know, through what
was developing and hip hop at the time in ninety
three ninety four.

Speaker 9 (01:01:54):
Well, it wasn't for me because I felt like, you know,
I started out on the fresh face. So I started
out with everybody being my friend. So that was my mentality.
So like when Puff started doing parties here in New York,
I heard about him. I come to New York and
come to Puff parties and see what it was. I
wanted to be around all my competition to see what
they was doing. So I came to New York. I
became Puff's friend. We called it hang it Out. I

(01:02:15):
go to his party's party kick and see how he's
throwing parties. And I go back to Atlanta. I throw
my parties right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
And then.

Speaker 9 (01:02:23):
Once I would come back to Atlanta and throw my parties,
I would say, like, Yo, I met these guys. I
need to call them down to Atlanta and come, you know,
come party with what I'm doing, right, And they and
they I think my non interest in what they was
doing was interesting to them. Like I wasn't interested in
what whatever they was, Whatever they was doing, that was cool.

(01:02:44):
I was still trying to do what I was doing,
you know what I'm saying. So, like when all the
artists or record labels was doing rap, I went and
did R and B album, so they wouldn't really they
couldn't follow.

Speaker 5 (01:02:55):
I didn't have no pattern that everybody was going on.
I was going through. Like when I did Escape, nobody
else was making R and B. You know R and
B groups.

Speaker 9 (01:03:02):
Everybody wanted the rat right, So then when I would
did the Brat, nobody wouldn't fucking with female rappers. They
was all trying to do guys, and it was like
so I just kept seeing this like, oh, I'm a
maneuver like this, I'm gonna do something differ, I'm gonna
do something different. So long story short, I just I
saw that as my place. I saw these guys just
trying to fight for the same space, and I'm like, shit,
I'm cool, I'm getting my money, I'm doing I'm doing

(01:03:23):
in my own space, and I'm gonna just be cool
with them. I didn't even know like how serious this
East Coast West coast thing was getting. So I invited
both Puff and Shug to my birthday party in Atlanta
and not thinking about anything, like, you know, just come.
I want you all to be there. I want to

(01:03:44):
have that flavor in Atlanta and at my birthday party,
I don't know, somewhere around before well, this is when
it hit the fan.

Speaker 5 (01:03:57):
I remember, this is this is when it hit fans.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Wait a minute, that was your birthday in the movie,
but they never said it was.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
It was my birthday party when the ship hit the fan.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
I didn't even know.

Speaker 9 (01:04:10):
Yeah, and I didn't I didn't realize that that was
what was happening. But they both were brought to Atlanta
by me, and they came to Atlanta and you know,
they were eyeing each other throughout the party and it
was like a thing. But I'm thinking, you know, that's
how hip hop is. And then it got to it
after my after my party, went to an after party,
and you know, words was said and somebody got killed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Y'all. I didn't even know. Okay, that's course. Now I'm
like trying to figure out where, like where does the
B side fit into this okay, so so so there's
so many stories.

Speaker 9 (01:04:51):
But all right, So, when like I said, me and
Puff was cool throughout this whole period of making music,
and at this time, Functified came out, and it was
three hot records that came out. One was super Hot,
which was Flavoring in Your Ear, the second one was
Functified with Me and the Brat, and then the third
was Juicy Fall of Hip Hop. People that it wasn't

(01:05:12):
a successful record like Functified and Plaving Year, so Big
was all. Big was so frustrated with the fact that
we was having success and Flavor Year was killing him
and he was coming on stage and people weren't really
like understanding who they was looking at. So then Big thought,

(01:05:34):
I'm gonna get cool with JD and I'm gonna get
him to make me a beat. So every day we
went on this tour, we went on a chintlest circuit
tour where it was just these three artists to Brad,
crag Back and Biggie and we went all around the
little chitting thirds and did all these shows. So in
that time period, me and Biggie became really cool, and
he talked to me all the time about how did,

(01:05:54):
like how did you get honeyed?

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
How you get honey popping?

Speaker 6 (01:05:57):
Like that?

Speaker 9 (01:05:57):
Like why people don't like my record? Like he used
to asked me all kind of crazy questions, like because
he was under the impression that nobody like she was nobody,
like because we was in the South, but what this
is not New York, this is the South. We was
in Florida, we was doing in Atlanta. Juicy wasn't nothing serious,
nothing but the numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
So that was all New York. That's all Northeast, all Northeast.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
That's crazy because even culturally, I would think that when
the smoke clears mm hmm, Juicy sort of inched everybody
freestyle over yeah, out of your ear.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
But I feel like Juicy is more iconic.

Speaker 5 (01:06:35):
It is, but it was like it took forever.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
You had to die too.

Speaker 5 (01:06:38):
No, No, it wasn't that. It was it just had
to be worked. It was just, you know, it was
the beginning of working your rap records.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Hard sell.

Speaker 9 (01:06:44):
It was a hard sell work. The Juicy record was
a hard sell for for for the other areas, like
the South, you know what I mean. It's almost like yeah,
so you know, Biggie was like, yo, you know, make
me a record, do something for me, man, let me
do something, do something. So he asked me so many
times that once they released Big Papa, he wanted me

(01:07:05):
to do the Big Papa. So he told Puff JD's
doing the remix of Big Papa. Because he didn't believe
in the success of Big Paper. He didn't think it
was gonna work. He thought they was gonna have to
put out the JD version.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
In Indiana where I grew up. That's the version. That's
the version we heard on the radio all the time. Damn, goddamn.
All right.

Speaker 9 (01:07:28):
So when Biggie, when Biggie came to do well what
So Biggie said, Yo, I want to do a real remix.
I want you to redo the beat. I don't want
to rap over this, I want you to take Let's
do a real remix. So he wanted to actually make
a new song. In his mind, he was like, Yo,
I'm gonna go to Atlanta. I'm gonna make a new
record and it's gonna relaunch my career. So he came
to Atlanta. I said, we're gonna re vocal Big I

(01:07:51):
mean Big Papa. I'm gonna give you a beat and
you could do the rap over. So I made the
beat and he rapped the song over when he finished rapping,
because he rapped the song so fast and he was
done so quick. When he finished, He's like, let's make
another song. And he was like, where honey at? And
I'm like, who you talking about it? He was like, Brat,
what's she hit her over here? Brad Brat actually lived

(01:08:14):
upstairs in my mother's house, so she was upstairs and
he ain't no, So I was like, she upstairs, I
tell her come now, So he came downstairs. He was like, Yo,
I want to do so on honeyman make a record
and do some on honey. I'm like, all right, let's
do it. So I wouldn't. I was just like I
know what he want. I was just trying to think of,
like what would be a jump fast record for Biggie

(01:08:35):
if I could give him that record, and I wanted
to give him a loop.

Speaker 5 (01:08:39):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 9 (01:08:39):
I wasn't trying to just make a beat. I was like,
we're gonna sample something. You know, we're gonna figure it out.
And I put up the outstanding beat the loop, and
I was like, rap over this, and you know this
guy's look incredible. He made that beat sound like it
had a bass line on it before I even put
the bassline on there. So then I was just like,
he was like, brat, you're gonna come in after me.
So he started making the song and I'm trying to

(01:09:02):
make the beat at the same time while he's rapping,
and this song just happened. That's why we don't have
no titles called the B side. It was just like,
what's the name of this song?

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
Went fuck? That just rap and it was like that's
how the song came about.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
So man, all right, so I okay, I'm skipping a
little bit because I know we got limited time. But
even though I mean, you're you're associated with many artists,
I always feel like your crowning achievement as a producer
was working with Usher.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
First of all, how does that happen? Because you you spearheading,
like how do you take the little kid who did
just call me a mac? And how did you how
did you take him and fully develop him into the
artist as far as like choosing his songs and like

(01:09:58):
what was it that?

Speaker 9 (01:10:01):
It's basically the same situation that I had already been through,
right I started Usher, Usher came to me when Chris
Crust was popping and he asked me to sign him.
I told him no because I was tired of dealing
with parents at this particular point point Whence Chris Cruss
was getting big and they parents was like arguing and fighting.
It was all a parents and I'm like, I'm not
dealing with this shit no more. I don't want no

(01:10:23):
kid rappers, I mean kid artists. So I passed on
signing Usher, and then Face signed Usher, right, So then
that called me a mac album didn't really really work,
but everybody felt like Jamaine could revive your career if
you go to a remix. So they brought me, what's
the song think of You?

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Right?

Speaker 9 (01:10:45):
So they brought me think of You and they said, Jamae,
please do a remix to think of You. So I
did a remix to think of You. And in the
midst of that, I felt like the song needed a
bridge cause I was just trying to figure out some
way to make my remix feel different than the record.
So I added a bridge to the song and I
told Usher he had to come in and sing the
bridge over. So when he came in, he sung the
bridge that I had written for him and he sung

(01:11:05):
it just like I had him, like I did it.
And then they heard his vocals and they was like,
oh shit, what did you do to him? And I'm like,
I just told him to sing the bridge? And they
was like, well, would you work on his next album?
Like just take him and do whatever the hell you
want to do with him, And I'm like that sounds crazy,
but okay, and I ain't know what to do, you know,
I mean, I didn't know. They just put it in

(01:11:26):
my hands and I felt and I found out that
if it didn't work with me, Usher would have probably
got dropped, right, So yeah, So, I mean, you know,
Usher came to my house and he became like a
social death artist. He basically stayed in my house every
night and we just talked and worked and talked and
worked and talked and worked until we got to my way.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Well, what's the process of you getting these songs album?
Because I mean, these aren't like average songs, these are
like staples you make me wonder and all that stuff like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
How did you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
What's your process of getting to know the artists and
what type of songs the right song?

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
And hoot it?

Speaker 9 (01:11:58):
I mean, well, I went through a bunch of record
I've started making songs that I thought were like I
don't even know what you could call the first songs,
but I know that he said, y'all, I don't want
to be like that. I want to be like Bobby Brown.
I want Bobby Brown to fear me. So then I
started looking at my prerogative.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Check.

Speaker 9 (01:12:17):
So I started looking at my prerogative and I'm like, okay, well,
I'm thinking like, I can't.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
Make no harder record than my prerogative.

Speaker 9 (01:12:24):
This shit is crazy, and Teddy Rowley's my idol, so
I'm not. I'm like, he, I can't make a better
record than my prerogative. So I was just trying to
make records that I felt like would go to bat
with these songs at least, right. So I made Nice
and Slow and I played it for La and he
didn't like that song, and I'm like, how do you
don't like this song? And I'm like, nobody's doing this,

(01:12:45):
nobody's doing you hear how Usher's singing seven on the
top top dudes in the streets.

Speaker 5 (01:12:51):
I'm saying, who you know talking like this?

Speaker 9 (01:12:53):
As an R and B artist, they wonn't getting none
of that shit, so that song was like put to
the side. So then Usher was like, man, this I
need something like prerogative. This is my I want this
ship my way and I was like, oh, my way, okay,
let's do that. Let's do it your way, and we

(01:13:15):
started making my way and then we got to my way.
My way was probably gonna be the first single. I
didn't have You Make Me Want him, and my Way's
probably gonna be the first single. And I wrote him
a rap.

Speaker 5 (01:13:24):
He was rapping it. It just felt like it was
like the new sounds for Usher, but I still wasn't convinced.

Speaker 9 (01:13:30):
I wasn't sold yet. I was like, uh, d ain't
like nice and slow and I was on the nice
and slow shit. I was trying to get that off
like the singing rap type singing right, and they weren't
really soul on it. So LA was like, we're gonna
put out My Way as the first single. And when
he told me that, I left the office and I
went home and I started making you make Me Want him?

(01:13:52):
And I was like, I just felt like he didn't
have that one yet. I was didn't he didn't have
that one, So I started making you make Me want
and I wrote the first verse and I had to
hook and I played it for USh and he was like, man,
I ain't really what I'm talking about, because he wanted
tomorrow way. He wanted the prerogative, you know, he wanted that.
So I was like, I say, you tripp him. So

(01:14:13):
I left and I took this song back to the
Face and I played the song for l A and
he was like, yo, go finish that song right now.

Speaker 5 (01:14:18):
That's it.

Speaker 9 (01:14:19):
So I went back to the studio and I finished
you know you make me want to and I got
Usher on the song and he sung the song like
he loved it, and the rest is history.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
How often do you have to browbeat your artist when
it comes to vocals?

Speaker 5 (01:14:34):
Bribe?

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
No, browbeat. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
I've made it known on the show that the one
process of production I hate the most is vocal takes.
I hate that shit. So usually I have someone else
because I don't have a good chemistry. Yeah, I don't
have the patience.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
So how do you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
Especially at the time, I mean, I mean, pro tools
was the thing here and there, but you weren't mid nineties,
early mid nineties.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
You work, yeah, literally working this well.

Speaker 5 (01:15:04):
See, my thing is this.

Speaker 9 (01:15:06):
You know, if you can really sing and you understand
music and you listen to my demo, then automatically it's
gonna sound better than what I'm listening to anyway, or
what I'm thinking anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:15:18):
Right, So that's how I make my records.

Speaker 9 (01:15:20):
I'm like, listen to me first, and do exactly what
I'm doing, but do it the way you would do
it in your real singing voice. So most of the
time when they do that, that shit starts starting to
sound way better than what I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
So for every for every hit that you have that
I wrote.

Speaker 9 (01:15:40):
So I mean, I did this last like two weeks ago,
three weeks ago at the ASCAP convention in LA and
it was like going start play go under the Hood
of Confessions, and I gave them basically a snap look
at how I wrote that song and how the song
came about and let them, you know, listen to me
actually sing a song like that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
That's interesting. I would know. I would love to hear that.

Speaker 7 (01:16:05):
No, not just because it's interesting, Like I was the
type of kid that took all my toys apart because
I wanted to see how they worked. So like to
be able to hear a demo, your demo of a
song like nice and Slow or something like that, but
just is fascinating to me. It's bad, but you know,
but it's still but if I heard it, I could
still hear how from that to the version that we do.

Speaker 9 (01:16:26):
And that's why when you introduce when you sound get
the credit. I feel like people don't really understand that
those Usher records is why Trey songs sound the way
he sounded and the way Chris Brown started singing the
way he sings.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
This is these records created that sund Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Definitely the template for it. I know that. Also, Mariah
came to you at a crucial point in her career.
Not a crucial point.

Speaker 5 (01:16:53):
I did always be my baby, That's what I'm talking about.
That wasn't crucial.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
She was the thing was you gotta understand though, always
be my baby in Fantasy Remix. That was a very
radical term for her, at least from the tutelage that
she was under with Tommy Mintolan with making sure that
I mean okay, like dude, dream Lover had the break
being and all that stuff. It was cute, but it's

(01:17:16):
still like it was in major key like it wouldn't
start no riot at no mall in America, but at
least with nineteen ninety five, with her insistent like yo,
I'm trying to make some shit that like I would
listen to in the club, like her going to Wu
Tang and Puffy and going to you. It's like that

(01:17:36):
was in my eyes radical, which you know, getting the
record and being a connoisseur of credits, I'm like, oh,
they're loosening the reins on her.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
They're letting her work with us. Yeah, and that's what it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
So first of all, in working with her, was it
a thing of like you getting extrustions like don't go
to hardcore, don't you know we already have one moot tak,
so only just try to give her no.

Speaker 9 (01:18:03):
We had this conversation last night. I'm I'm the musical
person when it comes to Mariah Carey, she's the rapper.
It completely a flip when we go in the studio.
We had the same conversation last night.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
Oh, so you're the conservative one and she's the one that's.

Speaker 9 (01:18:18):
Yeah, because I'm like, I'm trying to protect who she
is at all times because I feel like I feel like,
you know, she has an image that you can you know,
if you can keep it in this space, just don't.
You ain't got to go overboard. You could just keep
it in this space and put like you just said,
she had a loop, but it wouldn't get people killed.
It was still what we liked, but it was not crazy.

(01:18:40):
And I'm always like, let's make records like that, like
let's continue the seventeen million, twenty million spot. I'm cool,
what's wrong with it? Was never broken? Let's let's do
it or you on the Grunde came out and like
that's basically what she wants to do. So it's like
Mariah's a rapper. The first day I worked with Mariah
where I came to the student, she brought cream and

(01:19:01):
she said I wanted to sing over this.

Speaker 5 (01:19:03):
And when she was.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
And I said, so, how were you like back a
little bit?

Speaker 9 (01:19:08):
And I'm like what And I and Tomy Mattle was
standing there when she did this, and I'm thinking, like
you said, I'm like, I'm not fucking with this cream ship.

Speaker 5 (01:19:17):
That's not going to happen. I'm not doing this. Was
it the fear of you didn't want to be the
guy that the career? Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
Knew because that would have been a great idea.

Speaker 5 (01:19:31):
At the time when she asked me to do.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
It would have made amazing, but you didn't want to
be a guy holding the.

Speaker 9 (01:19:36):
And I and like, like I said, I'm I have
a super super musical side of me. Right when I
start doing R and B records, I turned into a
very musical person that wants to hear a lot of
different chords and different things and the way the song
is supposed to go.

Speaker 5 (01:19:51):
So and I had just did you know usher? So
it was it was R and B time for me, right,
So I was like, I need.

Speaker 9 (01:20:00):
Something that fits into what I just did with so
I'm having success here, Let's do something that has this field.
So then Manuel started playing the boom and I'm like,
see if we put some eight o weight on that ship,
it's oh we that's all. I believe in eight o
weight on anything.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
And that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
It's about this period. Okay, Now I'm using a fantine term.
What's the division of labor as far as uh, who
is in your team, your production team? As far as Okay,
it's nineteen ninety seven and I'm riah carry I want
to get it. Make sure that you know I'm rya
carry Okay, I work with my car. I'm like, yo,
produce a record? What is team dupre like, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Songwriting? So what's the songwriting session? Like?

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
He's like, do you have something or is it like
you work?

Speaker 9 (01:20:55):
Yeah, he's you just work right off the you know,
right off the cop he's he's an extra keyboard player,
guitar player, you know, he plays instruments. And I play
what I play, and then I make the beats and
I have the ideas basically, and I write, I write
the lyrics. Basically it will have it, you know if
with Usher, that's how it was. It was me and
him and we basically did the song that whole album
like that, and we went Tim Mariah was me and

(01:21:17):
Emay when we made always be my baby.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
The engineer or or mix your own records as well.

Speaker 5 (01:21:23):
Nah, yeah, I mean I do it, you know, I
do my rough before it goes. But I don't yeah,
don't touch that.

Speaker 10 (01:21:29):
Amir mentioned nineteen ninety seven, and I always I feel
like with Atlanta something happened between like ninety six and
I don't know ninety nine where of course, starting with you,
the music industry just built faster than any other industry
in most major cities.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Can you kind of or Jack the Rapper, Well, all.

Speaker 6 (01:21:46):
I mean you got to consider all those things, like
conferences were coming.

Speaker 10 (01:21:49):
You did have Freaknick, but like it just was a
crazy like five years in Atlanta, and I don't know
if everybody understands and how it broke down and whatnot.

Speaker 9 (01:21:57):
I mean, well, like you said, it was Freaknick. It
was things weren't happening in other major cities that that
people were like looking like in post Olympics.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
So what point?

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
What point was Atlanta seeing as you know, because I
know that Northeast Northeastern people are very cocky and whatever,
like you country five, Suddenly Atlanta's the ship.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Like when do you feel that Atlanta like.

Speaker 9 (01:22:22):
Arrived, Like when when I was when I was having
parties and everybody started coming. When when when if JERMAINI
pre have a party, everybody was going to Atlanta for
the party. Freak Nick was the start of this, But
then I started, you know, I did this. How can
I live weekend where.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
Your version of the n W a pool party? No?

Speaker 5 (01:22:43):
No, no, no, no, no, matter of fact, it wasn't.

Speaker 9 (01:22:45):
It was My thing was called can I live right,
because I had just did I had just did the
Money Anything record. And what what was interesting, what I
was getting back was that people felt like in the South,
I introduced them to jay Z right because people in
the South weren't listening to Reasonable Hell, you know, that
wasn't their album. They weren't into that, none of those

(01:23:06):
records in Atlanta, none of that was happening. So people
was like they felt like I was introducing them to
them and and Jay and everybody was coming to Atlanta,
you know, taking this love.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Yeah, people come to you to besides.

Speaker 9 (01:23:19):
Yeah, So that's what happened, so people, I think people
started paying attention to this, like this momentum. You know,
Mace came to Atlanta for my birthday party to get signed.
Nelly came to Atlanta to try to get me to
sign him. At my birthday party, I had this crazy
birthday party at the High Museum on P Street, and
I had all of.

Speaker 5 (01:23:36):
Those guys there.

Speaker 9 (01:23:37):
I had new Audition there, I had Maya, Elton John,
everybody was you know, whoever was somebody was trying to
be at Jamaine the pre party and people were like,
I remember like yesterday that even the paper. It said,
what does Jamaine Dupree have just making everybody wanted like
Elton John, what do you have a reason to be
around BBD and Maya and Jermaine Deprie.

Speaker 5 (01:23:58):
What's the purpose? What's what's internection?

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
I'm trying to imagine that conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:24:02):
Now, Well, you know Elton John like for real, like
he loves black.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
Music, but still it's just an odd parent.

Speaker 9 (01:24:09):
Yeah. Well, I mean he wanted me to know he
was cool and he came to party. But I think
that's what it was, what you're talking about. It was
just like people saw that happening, and it was it
was just like like I said, I wasn't paying attention
to everybody else. Whatever people was doing in New York,
that's what they was doing in New York. I. I
was determined to make Atlanta stand out just like New

(01:24:30):
York in LA Like.

Speaker 10 (01:24:31):
See, then there was a point when Atlanta started taking
in this and pushing his chest out with pride to
the point where like it wasn't so much the Northeast
record would get played first. Now Atlanta is supporting each
other on the radio, and it's records that you would
never hear other places. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I just
think that people don't really understand that about Atlanta in
that way, Like I always say that about like somebody
like Rashida, Like Rashida is a star in Atlanta because

(01:24:52):
of Atlanta and Atlanta Radio and everybody embracing her.

Speaker 5 (01:24:56):
When she was seeing Yeah, I mean it was you know,
it was a it was a it.

Speaker 9 (01:25:00):
It was a tug of war type of mentality because
people weren't really receptive of things that was coming from
Atlanta like that, almost to the point where Jermaine Duprex
was getting the success. So a lot of people in
Atlanta was mad at me because I was getting success
that a lot of them weren't getting at the same time.
So it was like they didn't understand why my records

(01:25:20):
was working. So then they that I've heard people say
crazy shit about my records and you know, jd ain't
from Atlanta and here I don't sound like outcasts and
this that and the third like it was. But my
my childhood and my life was different than that.

Speaker 5 (01:25:32):
I wasn't. I didn't grow up in Atlanta. I grew
up on tour.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
So can you explain can you explain the science of
what would be now known as trap culture because initially
I thought that you guys were more of a refined
what was supposed to be Miami's identification of bass music.
I always felt that you guys were a more refined

(01:25:56):
bass music, Like you guys did better work with those
type of planet rock beats and stuff, you know, and
then trap culture.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Develops. How how do you feel, like, are you in
your heart the old.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
I know, you're technically not supposed to agree with this,
like are you the old schooler that's sort of looking
like okay whatever, or like are you still about like
if kids are about it, then that's the future and
I support it and that sort of well, I.

Speaker 9 (01:26:28):
Mean, it's it's hard to it's hard for me to
even have talk about this because if you listen to
Jermain du Pre records that are like some non social
death artist records, the records are trap. Like if you
listen to Grills by Nelly. Okay, this was before people
start saying trap records, this is, but but it's by

(01:26:52):
Nelly and it became a number one that top one
hundred records and it's not connected to the trap.

Speaker 5 (01:27:00):
It don't come off like that's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
What that is.

Speaker 5 (01:27:02):
But the sound of the record. The sound of the
record is one.

Speaker 8 (01:27:09):
Boom.

Speaker 5 (01:27:09):
It's all the same elements.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
You know.

Speaker 9 (01:27:11):
The eight eight is overbearing, the small little kick, the
Franchise Boys, Bone Crusher, young Bloods, all of this shit
is what you're basically listening to now. So to me,
i'm i'm I think people disconnect me from being with
that sound. But that's that's been the sound like you
make me wanted to me, sounds like a trap record.

Speaker 5 (01:27:32):
Guitars on it, right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
Music.

Speaker 5 (01:27:35):
Yeah, So I just I don't look.

Speaker 9 (01:27:36):
At it as I look at it as like people
were listening to that sound and they just decided what
to do. I also feel like trap music ultimately, I
don't like that title because I think people use that
title to let us in as opposed to just saying
it's the Atlanta sound. I wish people would stop calling
it trap and say Atlanta music like they say everybody else.

(01:28:00):
That's that La sound, that's that New York sound, That's
that Atlanta sound. Stop saying trap because trap makes it.
Puts it in a box and it's like, Okay, you
got a trap set. No, this is two hours of
Atlanta music. Music from all of the artists in Atlanta.
You go to New York right now, you're gonna hear
two hours of records from Atlanta. Stop saying trap. That's

(01:28:20):
what I wish people would do.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
So what do you feel now? Is the future like
are you done with Atlanta or is it just starting?
Like for you? Is there more to reveal to the
world as far as what your next move is going
to be? I don't know.

Speaker 9 (01:28:35):
As executive or nah, I mean I you know, you
have to continue to keep finding ways to open the
doors for Atlanta. So I got the TV show, and
you know, with the TV show, I bring five kids
to Atlanta and expose them to what kids in Atlanta
are exposed to. Kids in Atlanta have it better than

(01:28:55):
mostly every other city kids out here period.

Speaker 5 (01:28:59):
Like in Brooklyn.

Speaker 9 (01:29:00):
I don't think they have talent shows for kids with
kids can do do things. I don't think they have
skating rinks where they allow you to perform. I don't
think they have it just when you want to be
an entertainer. In Atlanta, we have more elements than you know.
I find out because these kids coming, they're like, yo,
we don't have nothing. Like one of the kids came
from Chicago and she was talking about how they close
the skating rinks and kids don't really have anything to do.

Speaker 5 (01:29:22):
Right in Atlanta, the kids got they can go.

Speaker 9 (01:29:25):
To things and perform and people see them and do
just so many different outlets that people are opening that
we already had Wednesday, every Wednesday, every Monday, every Sunday.

Speaker 5 (01:29:36):
This is going on.

Speaker 9 (01:29:38):
So with all of this stuff going on, I'm still
pushing Atlanta culture. I think that that's that's the most
you know, that's the most important thing. And I still
feel like Atlanta's yet to have their Kendrick Lamar or
their j Cole or.

Speaker 5 (01:29:53):
Their jay Z. Yet in this era.

Speaker 9 (01:29:56):
We had it prior to No No, No, No No,
I'm saying we had it prior. I'm just saying I'm
saying in this era. In this era, it feels like,
you know, it's a new artist every week, right, feel
like it's a new hot artist every week. So I'm
just saying, I still feel like the city is so
hot that one of these rappers that people look at

(01:30:17):
as a problem rapper, because like I said, they label
everything in Atlanta so much as trapped that they don't
fear anything, right, you know what I mean? If you say, oh,
he's just that's that's just trapped. So it don't it
don't ever get into the box of oh ship you
know this guy. You know what I'm saying, it's never that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
Who do you feel that's unbeknowns to us?

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
But who do you feel that's bubbling under that's gonna
make an impact right now?

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
Like what artists do you feel that are?

Speaker 9 (01:30:44):
I mean, it's a lot of underground artists in Atlanta
that really raped that that could possibly do this. I
feel like I felt like Saha was gonna be that
guy for a second. You know, he's with the right
crew and he understands what I'm talking about. Like a
lot of people might not even know that this is
from Atlanta, Chicago. No, he's from He's from He's from

(01:31:04):
the East side.

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
Of Atlanta, and he I know that Kanye was from Atlanta, Atlanta.

Speaker 9 (01:31:09):
Too, So I mean, you know, like I said, it's
it's it's we still got room because of how people
put it in the box. If people open up the
box and do what I'm doing, and it might be
a little different. But I'm saying I wish people would
stop that because I think trap the word trap music.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
Came from E D E.

Speaker 9 (01:31:24):
M d j's wanting the ability to play rap music,
and they said, and call it and not call it
rap music.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Let me as we're talking about wait, can I can? I?

Speaker 5 (01:31:36):
It's what I pushed open the trap.

Speaker 6 (01:31:39):
No, it's never a battle, boss, it's never a battle.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
I'm about to about the reign on parade.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
How happy are you to do an interview in which
no one has to ask you any Jana Jackson questions, Yes,
it is, that's why.

Speaker 6 (01:31:57):
No, Actually I didn't. I have little John questions that one.

Speaker 1 (01:32:00):
I want to be the first.

Speaker 5 (01:32:01):
I mean, listen me, let me say this. I don't.

Speaker 9 (01:32:07):
I don't look at any of that as a problem
because my life is not regular, right, And if you
if you don't understand that your life is not regular,
then you won't be celebrating your life the way you're
supposed to write. I had a girl tell me, like, Nigga,

(01:32:28):
do you even know that I don't know another person
that's dated James Jackson. This is what the girl told me, right,
And I'm like, I'm thinking, I'm listening to her. I'm like,
and I'm listening to her in a in a not
paying attention to what she's saying, mindset. But then it
hit me like that's what people actually think. So if
you don't ask me the questions, and it didn't, it

(01:32:49):
wasn't something that resonated in your life.

Speaker 5 (01:32:51):
But I'm saying.

Speaker 9 (01:32:54):
And it overshadows, but I'm saying, she's such a cultural
staple in our culture that it's hard for people to
ignore it.

Speaker 5 (01:33:04):
Right, so I understand it. It's not something that you know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:07):
It is what it is. Okay, well, ask one question.