QLS Classic: Terence Blanchard

As we celebrate the final week of Black Music Month 2026, revisit this 2021 episode of Questlove Supreme featuring renowned composer, musician, and arranger Terence Blanchard.

Blanchard's 30-year creative partnership with Spike Lee has made them, in Quest's words, "the best combo of film director and film scorer." While his work on the majority of Lee's films is remarkable in itself, it represents just one chapter in an extraordinary career spanning film and television.

Recorded as Blanchard prepared for his second Academy Award nomination for Da 5 Bloods, this conversation finds him sharing the true story behind his incredible journey with Questlove and Team Supreme.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
What's Up. It's June and that means it's Black Music Month,
and every year on Questlove Supreme and now The Quest
Love Show, we honor it by bringing you an episode
every day that celebrates black music.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's history and its impact.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
My team and I have selected episodes from our archive
that we feel are specially relevant to the celebration, offering history,
insight a little fun along the way. So be on
the lookout for four brand new episodes throughout June, each
connected to the past, president future of black music. We're
going to highlight trailblazers, innovators, cultural conduits, and revolutionaries whose

(00:45):
word continues to shape the world around us.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Happy June, Happy Black Music Month.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.
I'm your host, Quest Love. We have Teams Supreme with
us today. Uh, how are you good? I'm good.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
I'm excited about this episode.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
Good.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I like to wait?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Are these are the same glasses you always wear? I
always feel like you have a new pair of glasses
on every time I see you.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
No, I got like four of five different movies, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:25):
I feel Okay, I see where the money.

Speaker 7 (01:34):
Came through.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm waiting for folks, wait for both.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I see h Steve, what's up man?

Speaker 7 (01:47):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Nothing, that's great to know. I appreciate it. Uh on
paid Bill Man, everything is good. You mentioned earlier that
you are fasting.

Speaker 8 (02:02):
No, I'm not fasting. Thank you for pointing out my
lack of religious fervor.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Thank you.

Speaker 8 (02:09):
Yeah, he's just not drinking.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I'm just not drinking. So that's the same thing as
sort of fast day today, fantolo.

Speaker 6 (02:17):
I'm chilling man. I'm chilling man. Been looking forward to
this one. I'm a big terrorist Splancher fan. So yes,
he's been waiting on this one.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Man, for real.

Speaker 8 (02:24):
You just gave away here the guests.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
But well that's good. That makes my way, That makes
me enter away shorter on the episode too. Our guest
today is a renowned composer, musician, trumpeter, one time member
of the Loneld Hampton Orchestra and the world famous art
Blinky Jazz Messengers. Not to mention composer of too well

(02:49):
received operas, but it's his near thirty year association with
the great Oscar Winner. I'm sorry, I was like Spiker Winner.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, yes, with.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Oscar winner Spike Lee. His association with him for the
last thirty years is probably, in my opinion, probably one
of the best combo of film scorer and director. Thank
that I know for real in cinema history. And that's
just not blowing smoke. He's up for his second Oscar

(03:26):
nomination for scoring. Duh.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yes, five bloods.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Duh. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Love Supreme.
The Great Terrence Blanchard.

Speaker 7 (03:37):
How are you, yes, man, what's happening? How you guys
doing doing?

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Good?

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Brother?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Good to see you again. Man. We met like years
ago at the Grammys. This is probably twenty ten. My
group deported to change.

Speaker 6 (03:48):
Nominated and we met in like the Little Dinner or whatever,
and oh you were still you were one of the
coolest dudes there. Man, Like you were just super chill.
And everyone else I remember a lot of those people
they were kind of I don't know whatever, but you
were just super down to earth, novel remember that very
houghty tody.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
But you was folks. So I really appreciate that.

Speaker 7 (04:03):
Man.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Wait, can I can I ask a question? Fronte was
a h Wait the Grammys throws they threw dinners.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Well it's after the joint.

Speaker 6 (04:13):
So like so at the time when I went, the
one and only time I went, because I ain't I
don't really need to do that ship no more so
the time it was in the Staples Center, and like
it was they have the pre tail a little dinner.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, oh, I was about I'm like, wait a minute, yeah, yeah, okay,
the Governor's okay, that okay, that makes sense. I thought
the nomination dinner thing that I never knew about.

Speaker 9 (04:40):
And I've been in this joint for twenty years, but
they should make a documentary about the pre awards because
in that room, it's like the guys, the people best
liner notes, like yeah, like it's the fucking craziest room
you've ever been in.

Speaker 8 (04:56):
I met Amy Mann in that room and she was
just like chilling. She got an for Best liner Notes.
We're like, what did you get on here for? She's
like best liner Notes. I was like, that's not a thing.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
She was like, it is a thing.

Speaker 8 (05:07):
And that was the first time I met you. Because
he had to be my Grammy best day ever.

Speaker 7 (05:11):
You know, you know what's funny, but saying that, man,
I've been going to the Grammys a number of years,
and I remember when the pre show was just that man,
it was a pre show, not too many people. But
now it's like the hang dude, yeah, and.

Speaker 8 (05:26):
Like people get fully dressed up, like and it's like
two in the afternoon and you're like fully I was,
the guys are like bright red, they're ready to go,
like everybody's ready to.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Like yeah, I was going to say, I was going
to say that in my maybe six times that I've
done that, I always wind up sitting uh in the
Latin section, and that I was going to say that
the snark and energy that that section has every time

(06:00):
Jose Feliciano wednsday role. Now it's better now, but there
was a point where, like I I by my fourth year,
I was like I couldn't wait. I was looking forward
to just sitting in the Latin section so I could
hear them all get mad because you know sometimes when

(06:21):
you well, the voting system is way different now, but
there was a point where everyone had access to everyone's
category and this like before twenty ten, and you just
vote for the name, you know, so in the Latin section,
it's like, oh, I know Felice Navid, I know Jose Feliciano,
So let me vote for him. And that's how he
would like twenty years in a row, just win the category. Meanwhile,

(06:45):
like the most popular artist of that genre.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Just like even though he.

Speaker 8 (06:49):
Put out a record that year, he just he had
no idea.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
He just he definitely had no idea. He didn't. Where
are you right now, Terrence.

Speaker 7 (06:57):
I'm in New Orleans, man. I mean I moved LA,
you know, because I was teaching at duc LA. But
you know, my home is not really ready yet and
I needed to work and begin at the beginning of
the pandemic. Man, I just came back home, and I
came back. I've been here for a year. I'm going anywhere.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Okay, Wait, I'm glad you mentioned New Orleans. So I
will say that the last time that a musical giant
from New Orleans was on our show, which was Branford Marcellus.
If you know him, you already know what I'm about
to say is true. No one loves to deflate the
air out of any jazz urban legend balloons that I

(07:39):
fantasize about more than Branford. So like every everything that
you know, everything that I tried to romanticize over, like
what I thought music and jazz and musicianship was like
he was just gleefully deflate that. No, that wasn't you know, and.

Speaker 7 (07:57):
My boy, you know, and I think I always messed
with him. I said, man, you must failed debate class
in high school, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, yeah, so I was saying. But basically, the one
thing that he totally deflated my balloon on was this
notion that I was fed when I was a kid
about obsessively practicing. And you know, I brought up a

(08:29):
story about the time when his brother won a Grammy
and thanked his dad for like making me practice and
da da da da dah. So you know, I grew
up with this thing where my dad was like, Yo,
five to ten hours, da da practice practice practice, like
you know, straight backstage dad stuff. And you know, for
the record, I'll say that David Murray is probably the

(08:51):
only jazz figure that I met that has lived up
to that myth where he told me like he practices
eight to ten hours a day with his acts.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
So I'm just this is my first question. I'm just
asking for the gate.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Is the notion of the obsessive musician waking up at
five am and practicing the scales and exercise and going
till nine pm like before gig. Is that just some
myth that's been planned in my head that was never real,
you know, just to keep me off the streets by
my dad.

Speaker 7 (09:23):
Or but he's be single and don't have kids, you heard. Yeah, no, no, no, no, man.
I look, I get up early, and I do get
to work. I mean, I'll come in and I'll start
working because my studio is kind of separate from the house,
so I can make some noise and I disturb people.
But it depends on it depends on what you're dealing

(09:44):
with at the time.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Man.

Speaker 7 (09:45):
There are moments where I get up and I practice
all day because I know that I'm trying to get
in shape to do certain things, you know. And then
with my career, since I'm composing a lot, man, there
are moments when I'm just sitting in here writing, you
know what I mean. I had to in some rewrites
for the opera. I'm sitting here working on the television
show right now, and I'm getting ready to start working

(10:06):
on a film, and you know, so this is why
I spend a lot of my time. I think the
I think the most important thing about it all, bro,
is just to figure out what's the best way for
you to be effective. Because you can sit down in
practice for five hours, bro, but if you ain't really
focused and you're not.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
You know, and if you're not applying it the right way.

Speaker 7 (10:25):
No, thirty minutes to do you a lot better, you
know what I mean? Thirty minutes like really focus, accomplish something,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Really?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, someone told me to practice what I don't know which,
Well there's a theory behind that. Yeah, but what about
muscle memory? What about you know, whenever you see someone
practicing in a movie or already hear the answer my
head and it's real stupid, but whenever you see anyone

(10:56):
like that, the myth of practicing is like they start
their scales and see and then they go half note
d D da da. But it is practicing muscle memory
or is it strictly just exploring what you don't know?

Speaker 7 (11:14):
Is there's two forms. There is the muscle memory part,
but the thing about it you try to build up
that vocabulary to the point where you become flexible. So
there are other aspects of practicing where it's all mental,
where you try to send yourself in different directions and
see if your body can respond. And if your body
can't respond, that's when you go back to the muscle
memory part to kind of really figure out what is

(11:37):
it that I'm not doing. Oh, it's this interval that's
hanging me up. So let me come back here and
work on this interval, you know what I mean, until
I get that muscle memory down in my brain, and
then I could go back to doing the improvised stuff.
Because the thing about it, Bro, I like it. This
is what I tell my students.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (11:54):
It's like being It's like being Kyrie Irving, Bro, you
know what I mean. Of course he knows how to dribble,
but man, does he really know what he's going to
do when he's coming down on a fast break, you
know what I mean, right in the heat of the moment.
But he has to have the skills to like execute
anything that happens in his brain within the split second,
you know. So that's what you're trying to achieve by
practicing and breaking it down into the various elements.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Wow, Chris Branford to say that to.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Me, it's about to be a good class.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
A good class.

Speaker 7 (12:26):
I'm always relating stuff to the sports. You know what
I mean, Repelicans are playing the Lakers right now, but
I'm not looking at the screen.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
We appreciate your tention to thinking. Well, okay, So I
do have a trumpet question though, because the amount of
times that I've played with serious trumpet players, and I
always notice that usually I mean, if they're they're they're
sort of going, you know, hard in the paint. If
they'll usually tie out in forty minutes, like they'll start

(13:02):
holding your lip, all right, So can you explain that
whole thing like the UMBI sure, because someday.

Speaker 7 (13:09):
Yeah, yeah, the armbature. Well, think about it like this.
You know, you have a piece of metal that's pressed
up against your lips other than like a reed instrument.
Right now, I'm taking anything away from read instrument, just
talking about brass, right, it's a very strenuous thing to
have that thing up against your lips and use these
muscles right on both sides of your umber shore. So look, man,

(13:34):
that's why that's the only reason why you need to practice.
You got to condition yourself. You have to get strong,
you know, and it's there's no way around that. That's
the thing I try to tell my students.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (13:43):
Then Charlie Parker said, it ain't magic, it just seems
like it is, you know what I mean. So I
mean that part you have to just put in the
time an effort to build up the muscles. And that's
the thing, Like, that's like scaring me to death right now,
because man, I've been in the pandemic. I've been sitting
here chilling and right you know, I got some shows

(14:04):
coming up, so I got to get back and you know,
practice mode and set the build back up so I
can be in condition to play for.

Speaker 6 (14:11):
A show that you do about how long would you
say you played by yourself?

Speaker 1 (14:16):
What do you have to work up to? Oh?

Speaker 7 (14:19):
Man, I'm you know. The goal is always to try
to build up to play two hours. Wow, that's impossible
because you know you never really played two hours straight.
But that's that's what you try to put in your mind.
And then when it comes time to do the show. Listen, man,
some of the old musicians, Brother used to always you know,
pull my cold and stuff. You know, say, look, man,

(14:39):
why you got to be the first cat to play
the solo? Bro? Let them dudes jump out there. You
just played the melody that's a very strenuous melody on
your chops. You need to let them and you take
a break, go on the side and look cool and
just wait your time.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
You know.

Speaker 7 (14:52):
It's little things like that brouh over the course of time.
It really helps you to maintain because when you looked
at Myles Man, you know, look, bro, Miles had it.
You know. Miles used to would play some break, he
would stop, he would take a break, you know. And
when he would take that break, it was doing two things.
It was doing something musically and it was also doing

(15:12):
something physically. He was allowing himself to recover.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, I was a trumpet player.

Speaker 6 (15:17):
I played trumpet like in like middle school, high school
and stuff. And so I would always go and watch,
you know, I would just watch how they would keep
that when you talk about the amateur and my band
teacher would always say that it's like a muscle and
you had to work it. And so a good friend
of mine, Cy Smith, she's a singer and she's been
touring before prior to COVID and everything, she had been

(15:39):
touring with Chris Body and so and so I went
and saw her at Body Show and Body he does
exactly what you're saying, like he'll play a little bit
and then you have a girl come out play the violin.
They didn't play a little more than sousing. They didn't
play a little bit, you know what I mean. It's
it's total like attack and release.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
So that's that's not just yeah selectively.

Speaker 5 (16:03):
Wow, that's exclusive. People don't think don't think that. They
just think you're taking an artistic break.

Speaker 7 (16:08):
Well, it is both. I mean, it's both things. I
mean because part of it is you know, it's it's
ingrained in us because that's part of the orientation of
what what you've heard on all of the records that
you've studied, you know what I mean. It's like Miles
always knew how to use space. So that's always a
part of my thinking just musically. But but it serves
two purposes, you know, it serves an autistic money and

(16:30):
it also serves a physical mind.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
So that exercises that you guys.

Speaker 7 (16:35):
Oh yeah, there are a lot of exercises. They are
things that I do, you know, to sit down and
just and it has nothing to do with music. It's
just simply the strengthen these muscles.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
So okay, I was going to say, how damaging is
it to reach that? Okay, let's let's take a cat
like well, I was gonna say Minard Ferguson like Monard
is uh you know, is the sample at the beginning
of Lords to the Underground Funky Child, That's that's that's

(17:10):
Monard on a soft day. That's that's like that's Monard
playing Mary had a little lamb. So he's just you know,
Minard is closer to like the Clayton Gunnals rubble without
a pause, squeal t squeal, like he just plays in
for the longest time. What what muscles or like what

(17:32):
powers have to be activated in order to assisted or
hit that out the part? Because even even when playing
with Doc Severson, who's well within his eighties now, he
he goes from zero.

Speaker 7 (17:44):
To that's one hundred crazy. That's crazy watching him play Bro.
If I knew that Bro, I'd be doing it, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Okay, I'm glad.

Speaker 7 (17:53):
It's just a difference of muscle. The interesting thing that
I was a guy like that, I think a lot
of it has to do with the formulation here. I'm
not this is just me speculated because when you watch
guys who have that high high range. The lord register
sounds a little different. Yeah, you know what I mean.
And it's a it's a different and it's a different approach.

(18:15):
So you know, for me, man, I've always been like
Miles Davis, Clarck, Terry, Freddie Hubber, Woody Shaw type of
du you know. I like those nice brown tones when
you when you listen to Miles Davis playing that poor
game best record bro, his tone is just immaculate and
just I've been hooked since I was sixteen. You know,

(18:36):
that's back in the days when we used to have
the faux bar, you know in our house that had
like the flickering lights when you had the record player
under knee.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yes, yes, I have those. Oh god, I just myself.

Speaker 10 (18:48):
Yes, come on, it's so good and put on Miles man.

Speaker 7 (18:59):
And I was sitting down in my room in the
front of the house and just listen to Miles Davis
with those lights on all night long.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Okay, So with okay, I'm glad you answered that question
because sometimes I'll look at a at a musician and
kind of side eye them because I didn't realize that,
you know, you need a certain amount of tune or
or lungs to hit certain things now.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Form listen to this, be shocked that you didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
No.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I mean sometimes I just feel like in my head,
my first thing is like, okay, are you just being
psychosomatic right now? Like wow, just like I'm just thinking
that there is.

Speaker 7 (19:39):
A part to that, you know what there is? I mean,
there was a mental side. Tur It. Man, there's a
great classical trumpet playing in Charlitie Shalutor who played in
Boston Pops for years as a good friend of mine. Man,
I was backstage before showing night and I was doing
something and when I went up to hit this high
seat I was playing for him, I missed it, and
he goes, oh, man, stop thinking about it. You just

(20:01):
work because I'm standing there. Just go ahead do the thing.
And when I when he said that, you know, came
out just as clear as a bell. So there is
a part of the psychological part of it.

Speaker 6 (20:10):
I mean in terms of like dizzy, because he would
always you know, like blow his cheeks out. And I
remember as a as a kid, when I would play
my bands, you should always say like you don't do.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
That, don't do that.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
You know what I'm saying. Well, he.

Speaker 6 (20:26):
Was like, nah, don't do that, Dan, That's gonna mess
you up. So what is it about? What is it
about that that makes for I guess for bad playing
or improper form?

Speaker 7 (20:35):
Well, you know the thing about it, It was Disney
was such a freaking menture man. Because when you play
the trumpet, most people think you try to bring your
lips backward. You don't want to do that because that
creates a thin layer of skin, right, what you try
to try to focus forward? Right, and we try to
do what you try to create what we call a
pucker right. Well, dizzey, he blew all of the blove

(20:58):
of us in his cheeks, right yeah. Wow. And then
after he did that, that's why his chiefs could expand.
But when this could expand, what happened He created a perfect.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Punker m.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Because he had no choice.

Speaker 7 (21:14):
Wow, it worked for him. You know what I mean?
I don't. I don't just that.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
I ain't trying to blow out the blood. This is
my cheek. That don't sound fun.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Nobody ever told us kids that we would have stopped.

Speaker 7 (21:28):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
So as a drummer, I know the texture and tone
preferences that I have when I judge or do my whatever.
Ten second judgment on Okay, they have a good sound,
they have a good tone, but how is that how
do you judge that for trumpet players? All right, so

(21:58):
you mentioned Dizzy and I'll give you a weird R
and B example. So you know eighty one when did
original music Aquarium come out?

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Eighty one? All right?

Speaker 2 (22:09):
So I was ten years old when Stevie wonders do
I do?

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Comes out?

Speaker 2 (22:14):
And of course you know, he does this big ass
build up.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
And then Disney sort of in my mind, I'm thinking,
damn with that sort of introduction, I would expect Dizzey
to come out the gate like evil Knievel, like to.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Live up to that thing.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Instead, he held back and always wanted to, always wanted
to know, and not like I know in my world,
I've made a living out of less is more. As
much as I could hold back, I've made and that
takes a lot of faith to not want to show
up and I'll do drummers and you know, let your

(22:55):
egos start talking to you. But how do you so, okay,
why would you in choosing poor game best? Like, what
is it about that album that tells you like the
tone is immaculate and I'm assuming that you're speaking from
a A Jordan Game sixth level of perfection, like he's
just hitting it out the park.

Speaker 7 (23:17):
Yeah, it's a it's a well listen, it's a it's
that perfect marriage between like tone and expression like it.
For me, I prefer Miles because I love that tone,
but I also loved Dizzy, and I also loved a
lot of other guys that had like a more edgy
or sharper tone.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
You know.

Speaker 7 (23:37):
Uh. But the thing about Miles that got me bro was, man,
the dude say boo and just you just got a
whole bunch of information in those three notes, just the
way he played it. And I think it's because he
was so counter to everything else that was going on.
Everybody else was trying to, like you said, prove how

(23:57):
much they could play, and for him, it was really
just about expressing, you know, the lyrics behind those those
those those beautiful songs, you know, And it just took me.
It just caught me, caught my attention from the time
that I was like fifteen, sixteen years old, and I've
just been hooked ever since. Now that's my first impression. Now,

(24:21):
when you listen to Clifton Brown. Clifton Brown has a
totally different type of sound. But man, there's a thing
that's connected to the way he's phrasing the notes.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (24:34):
This is just an honesty and purity about it.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (24:36):
It just hits me right in my soul. And I
got to say this brother, the same thing with you. Brother. Look, man,
with that snare drum sound, bruh, Your snare drum sound bruh.
Had me jacked up for a long time. Yeah. No, seriously, seriously, man,
Yeah no, seriously.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (24:54):
It's like you know then you said that you gotta
do a movie and stuff you try to put cruise
then said, damn, I get that that.

Speaker 8 (25:02):
You don't have pluggins that have like the quest love plugins, right,
you know that those exist. I've heard, like if you
want that's there, there's like a plug.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, I've seen I've seen it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Okay, well track Masters knows about it very well.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh Jesus Christ. Right, So okay, this this is the
I guess, the perfect segue. Now, Okay, since you're talking
about your fandom for Miles Davis in real time discovering
at fourteen fifteen, First of all, how old were you
when you got serious about the trumpet?

Speaker 7 (25:34):
When I was about that age. You know, I had
a trumpet from the time I was in about fourth
grade elementary school.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Man.

Speaker 7 (25:40):
But look, I thought I was going to be athlete.
I thought I was going to play football. And you know,
I went to one of those by U classics, bro,
and I saw Grandma's team come off the bus. That
was it for me. Bro. I was like, big guys
following me around.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
What position did you play.

Speaker 7 (25:58):
When I was my litle league, man, I played lineback.
And you know what.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
About high school? At least?

Speaker 7 (26:08):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no no no. By the
time I got the high school, I already made that decision.
I knew I was gonna be as big as those dudes.
I just knew it wasn't gonna happen, you know what
I'm saying. So wow, No it was. I was about
fourteen fifteen round at the same time, and that was
at the same time that I wound up going to
the Archig School in New Orleans, New Orleans Center for

(26:28):
the Creative Arts, And that's where my life changed, man,
because they just introduced me to everything. You know, I
just clutching brown on a cam and everything. I just
I learned so much. That was the first time. Man,
I remember wanting to go to school every day, you know.
I remember I got sick one day and I had
to catch myself. My mom was said, boy, you should

(26:49):
stay home, and I was like, no, I got to
go to school. Damn that. I really just said it, right,
But it was like that because I was learning so much,
you know, every day.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, So I have I have a Miles question for you. Now, Okay,
I'll compare it or or at least parallel with all Right,
let me my north star is Prince. So I'll say that,
and I irk Prince fans to this day because I
will only hang on to seventy eight to eighty eight,
and it'll irk them to death because it doesn't validate

(27:20):
when they got hipped prop well he made Da Da
Da in nineteen ninety four and whatever. And to me,
it's like, you know, I mean, every everyone has a
streak period. I mean you go look at Stevie Wonders
discograph and say, okay, this was his streak period. So
just now, because I'm more or less discovered Miles in
my twenties and way after the fact, like it's it's

(27:43):
different when on the Corner is introduced to you as
a masterpiece as opposed to being around seventy three to hear. Right,
So how we're two babies. Well you're a too too
baby because your age are just every episode. So all right,

(28:07):
yeah so you were baby? No, But I just mean, like,
you know, were you able to discern the difference between
like what were your thoughts on, Like, Okay, I always
clown a song like I do I'm going to hell
for this, a song like Jean Pierre, which I'm so not.

(28:33):
I'm so not a fan of Jean Pierre. It's almost
like Showgirls, Like I've made fun of that song so
much that well, let me ask you this. You ever
clown something so much that you like it like a
Stockholm syndrome thing.

Speaker 7 (28:43):
Okay, but let me ask you this. Were you not
a fan of it from the beginning or just because
people you know ran it into the ground?

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Okay. So with with Miles's discography, I decided when I
was going to get into him that I was going
to go in chronological order, okay, And so you know,
so I started when I was fourteen, so I didn't
even get to like we want Miles and you're underrest
and all that stuff. I didn't get to there until
I was in my twenties, and by then I had,

(29:12):
you know, I ingusted so much of classic Miles that
and I haven't read the books or none of that stuff,
so I didn't even know about like what he was
going through in his life. But for me, I was
just like, I guess this is okay, Like I mean,
I just gave him cart blots for everything he does
is magic and gold. But like, what were you? And

(29:36):
I'm so glad I'm talking to someone not named Marcellus
because you know, both of them, for many reasons, have
have polar opposite opinions on him, especially but I just
needed a third party to hit me to that time period.

Speaker 7 (29:55):
Well you know what it was. You know what it
was for me, Mancy. I was always fascinated with Miles
because Miles is always the underdog. A lot of people
don't realize that, you know, Yeah, man and Billy X
Sign's band, you had Dizzeygill eSPI and uh Fat Fast
and Viral in the band, and he was like one
of the third fourth trumpet players in the band. And

(30:16):
it wasn't He wasn't one of the strongest guys, you
know what I mean. Wow, So you know, he was
always like the underdog. So that's why he went a
totally different direction. So for me, I've always been fascinated
with everything Miles did because I'm kind of like a
historian when it comes to him. I guess, you know,
I don't know if history is the right word, but

(30:38):
you know, I'm always fascinated by the things that he
wanted to do because he was so heavily affected by
that earlier period of playing with Bird and playing with
Benny x Stein in that band that it made him
forced him to find this other approach that was totally
different from the Royal Eldridge's and Disy Gillspies and all
of those guys, right, and then finding that approach, he

(31:01):
just all of a sudden blazed the whole new trail.
And then you can see he just never looked back
from that point. He just kept moving and kept moving forward,
and that was his thing. So by the time he
got to doing Jean Pierre, We Want Miles and all
of those things, you know, I wasn't looking for and
I know this made be sacles to say. But I
wasn't looking for the next big musical breakthrough for Miles,

(31:24):
you know what I mean. I was just fascinated by
why he made those choices and just watching the journey. Yeah,
they have they have to be a reason. You know,
I didn't think that. You know, I got a chance
to meet him around that period. You know, he saw
me play and uh at this jazz festival in Florida.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Men.

Speaker 7 (31:44):
And unbeknownst to me, when I was in Italy, he
did an interview with some Italian journalists and he said
they asked him, so, who do you like out of
the young players? And he said, I like Terrence. But
I didn't know he said this.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
So wow.

Speaker 7 (31:59):
Yeah, so all of these journalists. I come out of
the hotel and Perugia and all of the journalists come
running up to me, you know, and they said, well,
what do you think about what Miles said about you?
And I go, you know it's Miles, you go, so
what are you?

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Right?

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Right?

Speaker 5 (32:14):
Right?

Speaker 7 (32:14):
Right? This is direction. So after that, he had a
show that night and al Foster was playing drums right
and uh. I'll never forget it.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Man.

Speaker 7 (32:25):
When they came off the stage, they would always clear
path for Miles, you know, always everybody had to step back,
and I was standing there and Al could see, you know,
me looking at Miles. And then he just knew I
never met Miles, and he said, men, come on back
and introduce you to Miles. And when I walked in,
Miles was you know, I was like, he said, keep

(32:46):
doing what you're doing, motherfucker, you know wow. And he
was always cool with me, man, every time I was
seeing him after that. So for me, I didn't look
at him as a person, you know, I always still
thought he was always making moves, strategic move You didn't

(33:07):
have to aglieve with him. You didn't have to like him,
you know what I mean. But he was making moves
in his mind. So when I hear those records, that's
what I hear. I love to too. I think I
think those records are brilliant because you don't see anything
like that. You haven't seen anything like that since that record,

(33:27):
where you have somebody like of that caliber who's not
taking that music lightly, you know what I mean, who's
really coming at it from a place where he's trying
to do something interesting and trying to contribute and.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Not troduced by Marcus Miller, not.

Speaker 7 (33:44):
Trying to take advantage, you know what I mean. That's
the thing that I really dug about that record. You know,
I love that record, you know, it's one of my
favorite favorite records. But that's I dig about Miles. I
want my career to be like Miles. I don't want
to sound the same if you pick up a record
from now and then to pick up a record from
from from me twenty years ago. You know what I
mean to me that that's that's the tragedy, you know,

(34:06):
because life, the life would be boring if you did
the same ship all the time, you know.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
For real.

Speaker 6 (34:15):
Man, One question I had about Miles, and I've talked to.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Being glassproow, Like we debated this before, would.

Speaker 6 (34:21):
You say that Miles, because in my mind, the way
I came into him was he kind of the first
guy to to create what we now know as smooth jazz,
so to speak, Like, I know, it's kind of looked
as a as a it's smooth jazz has looked at
as kind of a pejorative now, you know what I'm saying.
But at the time when I got into jazz, I

(34:43):
was a kid, and so you know, kind of blue.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
That was like homework music for me, you know what
I'm saying. And I was like, okay, I can put
this song. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (34:53):
I'm like, yo, yeah, because I never thought about it.
I never thought you would kind of blue and that
and that. But I can see where you're going with that.
I never thought about that with Mius. You know what
I thought you were going to say, was was it
true at Miles was the guy that created like the
fusion thing? And I like, yeah, because those those guys

(35:14):
were coming at it from all different angles, you.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (35:16):
But I'd have to put some thought into that about
the smooth jazz thing because you know, even though, because
you know it's funny before you said the kind of blue,
I was going to say, because you know, you had like, uh,
Lucky Thompson and all of those guys, they were one
more of the R and B is kind of instrumental music.

(35:37):
And then I kind of let in years later to
like a Groover Washington.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Kind David Sanborn and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 (35:44):
Yeah. So but when you threw you threw me for
a loop with the cod.

Speaker 6 (35:50):
I mean that was just me as a gig, Like
were talked about this kind of where you are when
you come to the music, what your experience is with it,
and so for me it would come on.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
I'm like, this is just chill ship. I do my
homework too.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
But I think before smooth jazz, there was cool, and
cool was you know, Bertha Cool, which is probably a
better example of smooth jazz. You know. Actually, Steve, you
are the Creed tailor uh expert here. Now I'm a
Cretailor fan only because a lot of his stuff is
so breakbeat oriented, you know, all that Bob James stuff,

(36:27):
all the you know, all the all this stuff, even
Krover like. But I know that jazz experts or the
jazz police, will you know, give that a raspberry down
in two seconds? But I don't know.

Speaker 7 (36:44):
I would think that won't worry from New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Listen you how did you escape the cult?

Speaker 7 (36:52):
Then here's here's the thing about we don't deal with
the jazz poof you know what I mean, There's a
there's a different between like upholding something right and moving
something forward, you know what I mean? Like, well, I've
been teaching I'm not teaching it now, but when I
was working at the Monk Institute, man, I hung around
Herbie and Wayne for over fifteen years, you know what

(37:16):
I mean, And being around those dudes, they constantly make
you think about things. And Wayne Charlotte used to say,
jazz means I dare you.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 7 (37:25):
So that's the way that I look at it. Wow,
I don't like. I don't like the divisions and music,
you know, because we already have too many divisions in life,
you know, we don't need divisions of music. As a
matter of fact. I remember years ago when I was
with all Blakey Man. We were in Paris, and I
don't know if you know Marvel Miller was very jazz pianist.

(37:46):
Would we would? I hate that meit this, But we
was homesick, so we went to McDonald's and shit, be the.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Only one that would go to in America that there.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Are exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Ship.

Speaker 8 (38:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (38:10):
While we were sitting there, man, I remember we heard
Nancy Wilson, we heard uh, we heard some R and B,
we heard some classical music, and it was all being
played from the same station.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Oh Europe, Oh Europe, you know.

Speaker 7 (38:27):
And it was all African American artists. I'm assuming classical.
I was assuming the classical person, and I was sitting
there saying wow, and and it was deep because it
took us a minute to realize it because when you,
you know, you first sit down, you kind of think, oh,
this is just gonna be like some R and B
stuff that's playing. The next thing, you know, it's like
Timmy finn, I got something that's playing, What what the hell?

(38:47):
And then if something else playing, and I went, see, man,
this is what's really cool because then we're starting to
see the breath of who we are as a community bro,
not this kind of localized yeah, you know, and it
keeps people fearful, keeps people fearful of trynics experience something different,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, all right, Steve, I'm asking your question unless you're
going to ask you right now.

Speaker 11 (39:13):
Well, I have a question, but I doubt you know
what it is.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Okay, Well then I'm taking your question.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Okay, I can wait.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
All right, ask your question, Steve. No, I don't want
to ruin I don't want to ruin your flow. I
was going to ask what was the first album that you.

Speaker 11 (39:33):
Oh no, that's not my My question is where's your
album collection right now? So we can pull up and
you know that's the question.

Speaker 7 (39:42):
You know what, you know what's funny about that, bro? Man,
My wife just has some cabinets built and we put
all the records over over there, you know, and I
got my turntable over there and everything.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
I've switched everything over the digital.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Dude, Okay, you off the floor.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Save space.

Speaker 7 (40:04):
No no, no, no, no, it's not you know, you know,
you know, I get I know a lot of dudes
like that.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
I get it. I get it. You know.

Speaker 7 (40:20):
It's it's interesting, man, because uh I felt bad one day, man,
when my kids they were they were little. They're grown now,
but when they were little, I felt bad.

Speaker 5 (40:29):
Man.

Speaker 7 (40:29):
I pulled out the turntable and I gave him some records,
and the watching them put the needle on the thing
and with such amazement in their eyes, was.

Speaker 8 (40:37):
Like, I went, wow, Right, my daughter just found CDs yesterday.
She's like, what are these? I was like, really, ship, Yeah,
she took and then she took them. She took them
and she used them to paint on they like to
paint to make art out of because she didn't know
what to do.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
With the season. It was a moment.

Speaker 7 (40:55):
A good friend of mine, a good friend of mine,
he used to sell records here. He had a he
had a store any walls ago, we're read just how
was hanging out and my daughter Sidney, who was living
in Brooklyn. Man, he knows she's a musician, she's a
songwriter and everything. So he pulls out in one of
the first Sony Walkman.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
The Yellow Ones, first one.

Speaker 7 (41:15):
Yeah yeah, and he gave it to her.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
What's she doing with dad?

Speaker 7 (41:19):
She told, I said, I gave her this long, long
lecture about you don't even know what you have. You
need to respect what it is you have, blah blah blah,
because it was in pristine condition, you know what I mean. Wowe,
it's still worked. I mean you know she has it.
She has it wrapped up in in uh in her room.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Now. I didn't let her take her to Brooklyn like.

Speaker 5 (41:41):
You guys and bragging writs real quick about your kids though,
because I didn't know about your daughter as a songwriter.

Speaker 7 (41:46):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah. My son actually wrote some stuff
from one of my albums.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Man.

Speaker 7 (41:50):
You know he's a great songwriter to Jay poetry, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
We're about to follow him Terrence with the name.

Speaker 7 (41:59):
Jay Ray Oliver, but the red spelled like r E.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
I okay, and then what's your daughter?

Speaker 7 (42:06):
My daughters like her name is Sydney, but she Tom.
She's got like Tom girl or something that's I hamble on.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I g you know, I can't.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
That's fine.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
I just wanted to know at least we can find myself.

Speaker 7 (42:18):
That's one of my first record with a band called
about the releasing, you know, against Priest Nice.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
All right, yeah, but okay, So what was the first
album that you purchased?

Speaker 7 (42:34):
Oh, man, okay, I have to class fighter. See it
was funny because you were talking about me and Ferguson
the other big Me and not Ferguson fan when I
was a kid. So some of that stuff with some
of the first stuff I bought. But when I really
started to get serious about jazz, man, it was Miles
David's Funny, My Funny, Valentine Live and Brown and Roach

(42:58):
Max Roach and Clipping Brown.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
With Jackie on it.

Speaker 7 (43:03):
Yes, okay, I used to wear those records out.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
I've gotten to jazz early.

Speaker 7 (43:09):
Yeah, because you know, living in New Orleans, man, I mean,
you know, you're just exposed to all of these great musicians.
You hear guys playing instruments all the time. You know,
so you just kind of is this in your system?

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Can I ask my question now?

Speaker 11 (43:23):
I mean, yes, it's not related to vinyl records or anything,
but your your actual trumpet.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yes, for people who.

Speaker 11 (43:32):
Have seen you play live or on video, it looks
different than normal trumpet. And I think me and our
viewers might be curious, what's the difference between your trumpet
and quote unquote normal trumpet, and like, does it have
anything to do with the you know, the mouthpiece especially
looks looks different. Does that have anything to do with

(43:52):
what we were talking about earlier the physical aspect of
having a.

Speaker 7 (43:56):
Little bit I mean it's maybe by a guy named
David on that and the models Roger a I'm sorry,
r a Ja. And what he does is when you
see it, it has a lot of thick bracing on it,
and the reason why the mouthpiece is there, and it's
actually removable, but it takes a long long time to
unscrew because what he's trying to do is to try

(44:18):
to create a really tight fit, so nothing really vibrates
in the metal. But when you get to the bell,
he makes a really really large bell that's dense and
when you pluck it, man, it rings right, So that's
the only thing that resonates on the horn. And his
theory is that by keeping everything else so rigid, the

(44:38):
sound goes through the horn rather quickly and creates a
broader tone coming at the bell.

Speaker 11 (44:45):
And what about the physical aspect of is it easier
on your on your mouth?

Speaker 7 (44:51):
No, I mean it's the same. I mean, he would
like to tell you it's easier because you know, it's
slotted better, and blah blah blah. It's still a trumpet.
It's still still a pH demanding thing.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
You know.

Speaker 7 (45:01):
That was a great trumpet player. Man, I was telling him.
I said, Man, I'm trying to get to the point
it doesn't hurt. He said, man, it hurts. Let it go.

Speaker 6 (45:12):
Man, what is the difference between I used to I
mean playing I still never really knew trumpet, corn it,
and flugel.

Speaker 7 (45:19):
Well, I mean both of all three of those. It's
really about tone. I mean they're going to feel different
just because of the tubing and everything is going to
feel like really kind of open. It's you know, corn it.
For me, it feels a little more restrictive, you know,
But it's just about tone, you know. And and it's
kind of interesting because I haven't played corner out of
fluhorn a long, long long time.

Speaker 6 (45:41):
I guess the notes are still the same as the
trumpet though it's the same finger and everything, gotcha, exactly
the same, just different.

Speaker 11 (45:49):
Why did why did art Farmers stop playing trumpet and
only play flug on exclusively?

Speaker 1 (45:55):
He did it? He plays a fluppet, Yeah, he can.

Speaker 7 (45:58):
He came up. Well, the same guy, the same guy
that me and my horn made his horn, and he
came in between a trumpet and a fluval horn and
that they called it the flumpet, you know, and it
was designed to kind of bring those physical sin ways
together to create a tone that's kind of in between.

(46:18):
But he had, he had, he had. That was something
A lot of that is like in your in your head, man,
what you're trying to hear, you know what I mean.
And that's the beauty of any artistry, you know. You know,
That's what I try to teach my kids. It's like
I can't tell you who you are. You know, I
could just give you the twos to kind of help
you to develop your ideas, but who you are is

(46:41):
you're an individual. You have to do that investigation yourself.
And the more you do that, the more you trust it,
the more you start to see that maybe you're not
like somebody else. Maybe you do like a different tone,
maybe you do like a different set up on your
drums than somebody else. And that's okay as long as
you're expressing what it is you want to express.

Speaker 11 (46:59):
I was just wondering if you still play other types
of if you play other brands or models of trumpet,
or just exclusively the one that we see you with.

Speaker 7 (47:09):
Yeah, just the moment I'm you know, I haven't played
a horn that plays as for me, at least plays
as well as his for me, you know, And maybe
it's just because I'm accustomed to him.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
But there's a certain.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
You know.

Speaker 7 (47:28):
Maurice Andre was this great classical trumpet player from Paris,
man and he made a comment one time and it
stuck with me.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
You know.

Speaker 7 (47:36):
He said there were moments in time that he would
play that he would forget that he had a horn
in his hand, you know, And sometimes you're playing them
on thatt it's kind of like that, you know what
I mean. It's like the trumpet is just what it is.
It's an instrument.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Man.

Speaker 7 (47:51):
My trumpet teacher always used to say, you know, he
would point to the trump and goes, what does that mean?

Speaker 1 (47:57):
What is that?

Speaker 7 (47:58):
And I'm always given this scientific answer, man, you know, like, oh,
it's a two man. It's blah blah blah blah blah.
He goes, no, man, it's a mirror of the mind.
It's a mirror of.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
The mind, you know.

Speaker 7 (48:10):
And uh, that's the way that I kind of look
at it. With his horns when I'm playing his horns,
I don't I get to the point where I'm not
thinking about playing the trumpet, you know, it's about trying
to convey an idea to an audience. Growing up in
New Orleans, especially at the age in your formative years,

(48:33):
what was your relationship with pop or soul music at
the time? Like cats I saw, you know cats that
I grew up with in the seventies. You know, they
they were you know, they were looking to like Pee
Wee from the Ohio Players, or like William King from
the Commondors.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Like every high school wanted to play like love roller
Coaster or that sort of thing. Like where what was
your relationship with just modern music at the time?

Speaker 7 (49:02):
What it was Bernie well Wall, Yes, indeed, Bernie Paulamer, Funker, Bellis,
earth Wind and Fire Cool in the Gang Mandrel, you know,
all of those groups. Man, that was the stuff that
I used to listen to. As a matter of fact,
I used to play keyboard in the pop band when
I was in high school and really dug it, you

(49:22):
know what I mean, had a lot of fun doing it, man,
and then continued to do it. You know, even when
I got to college a little bit. We used to
we used to do a lot of that stuff, playing
those gigs, and I always had fun. Listen, man, I've
always loved that music. You know. That's why I loved
Prince so much, because Prince, to me, was like a throwback.
You know. Obviously he come out of James Brown. You
could hear all of that stuff. You could hear, you know,

(49:45):
where he paid reverence a lot of people that had
come performed. But the thing that I liked about Prince's
kind of like Myles to me, and that you know,
with all of those albums, bro, he was trying something
different and he was always finding something new to express,
you know, and uh he was unapologetic about it. I
just listen, man, you know, he was the only artist

(50:06):
that I saw at the time that could have like
a like a heavy metal tune in a country tune
on the same album, you know what I mean, right,
and it'll still sound like him, you know what I mean.
It's like you had to tip your hat to that.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
So so funking soul wasn't a four letter word to
you at the time.

Speaker 7 (50:23):
Never, never, ever.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Okay, So now I'll go back to my original question,
because I know that you've had associations with Ellis Marcellus
and and his kids. Uh, how did you?

Speaker 1 (50:40):
How did you?

Speaker 2 (50:41):
How did you escape the at least in my personal,
uh point of view, the this kind of get out
cultish jazz cultish regime of Marcella's seriousness, which you know,
depending on which morsels you talk to is either some

(51:02):
of them are wide open or rebellious or some are
very much like you must study the book of you know,
chapter Jazz Verse Swing.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
You know, Yeah, how did you escape that?

Speaker 7 (51:16):
Well? I mean, listen, man, you know, at a certain
point of your development, those things are really appropriate to
help you to just decipher information, you know. So when
I was a young kid, all of that stuff was
was really it's really great to make me sit down
and focus in practice, you know. But at the same time, bruh,

(51:37):
I'm still a compassionate, feeling person. I'm not going to
deny what it is that I feel in my soul,
you know what I mean. I'm not going to turn
I give you another example, you know, forget to mysels.
I'll just go to the church. You know, I grew
up in a congregational as church in New Orleans. Man
Andrew Young was a member of my church.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
You know.

Speaker 7 (51:57):
Yeah, he grew up in my church, you know. So
it was it was interesting because as long as I
play classical music, man, those people love me, you know
what I mean. When I started to become a jazz musician,
they used to say, well, you know that's that jazz
is fine, but you keep keep up with your classics.

Speaker 5 (52:12):
You hear.

Speaker 7 (52:12):
And I'm like, you know, that would always bug me
because I love music period. You know, there's things that
I feel that I can't I will not ever deny,
you know. So, so when I'm when I'm listening to
you know, uh, when I'm listening to when I'm listening
to jodasy Right and and and Jodaicy, some of that

(52:37):
ship is like like really funky, you know, I still
feel something just as much as when I'm listening to women.
And I know people say that as a as a thing.
You know, I don't. I'm not doing that, you know,
I look at you know, this world is a vast world, man,
and God has given all of us different talents to

(52:59):
express things in various ways. So there shouldn't be one
way to skin a cat, you know what I'm saying.
And as long as you're coming at it from a
point of view of honesty and sincerity, who gives the
ship what it is that you you know what I mean?
It's like, that's my personal opinion for me. I think

(53:21):
all of that divisive stuff is a way that has
kept black people separated from each other in a way
that's unnecessary, you know. And I think it's kind of
hard for us to see that sometimes.

Speaker 5 (53:32):
And maybe it's funny because we interviewed him two May
and I feel like in a way, he had to
fight that fight, so maybe other people wouldn't, because he
definitely was vocal about how people felt about him making
that transition in the R and B and whatnot.

Speaker 7 (53:44):
Oh look, you know with my band The E Collective,
I heard it. You know, I've been here. You know
when we did that, man, it was funny. It was
funny when we did our first tour of Europe. Dude,
it was funny. Every time we got out in the
audience and we saw great hair, we go, oh shit,
you know, okay, it's gonna be one of them.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Nice.

Speaker 7 (54:03):
But the funny part about it, man, you know when
the band will start to play, and you know, Oscar
Sene is the drummer, man, and he's got a strong
pocket man, And when the band will start to play,
people start tapping their feet and they will start grooving
to the music, and we say, oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
So for me, man, music is music, dude, you know

(54:24):
what I mean. It's it's uh, you know, it's I
don't know. I hate the labeling of things because I've
seen it just keep us apart rather than bring us
together for too long. And I just wish we could
just turn turn that around. We haven't learned from like Herbie.

(54:46):
You know what I'm saying, Because Herbie was showing us
this years.

Speaker 5 (54:50):
Ago, you know what I mean, right, y'all was still
having a conversation and Mobeta Blues.

Speaker 7 (54:56):
Yeah, Oh listen, man, Man, you know what, we did
more better blues. It was kind of fun because when
when when the movie hit, we were like in the
top ten on radio charts in d C or some SI.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
You're from DC to this episode Born and Raised Howard.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
This episode?

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Okay today youtu baby born in DC.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
I got you today's narrative.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
So with what would you say? Is your your Well,
I know you played with Hampton? Uh, but what was
your first professional I made it. I don't have to
have a part time job. I'm officially gigging. Like, what
was your first official moment playing with all Blake? Oh?

Speaker 1 (55:45):
So Messengers came first?

Speaker 7 (55:47):
Yeah, man, when I was about nineteen years old, I
joined that band and I had to leave school. I
was going to Rutgis University in New Jersey and with
Regina bell Man.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
You know, okay, this is up. Yeah, all the school together.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Yeah, even though she went to us. That's dope.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Ok yeah, I did not know. Yeah, so what was
that old key? Tell us about the experience playing with
our Oh man.

Speaker 7 (56:10):
Bruh here with that? Sorry?

Speaker 8 (56:12):
What year were in the Messengers?

Speaker 7 (56:14):
It was from eighty two to eighty six, And I
tell people, man, I was there for four years. But
our aged like about forty. I was a young little
kid from New Orleans, fresh off the farm. Bro it was.
And then my first tour with him was like ten
weeks in Europe.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Dude, Wow, tell us everything about it, man from New Orleans.

Speaker 7 (56:35):
Bro I spoke a little bit of Spanish, brou. It
was a trip just trying to eat.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Oh my god.

Speaker 7 (56:41):
And then we hit London the last two weeks of
the tour. Bro I was so happy to hear English English. Man.
It was crazy, bro it was. It was crazy. But
you know, listen, man, I learned a lot about the world.
And I came back and I remember I came back
and I was telling my mom about my cousin and stuff.
I said, you know, we need to figure out a

(57:01):
way to get these kids to travel to see the world,
because that's the education, you know. And I learned. I
learned a great deal. And Art was the type of guy, man,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
He he had.

Speaker 7 (57:13):
An Art was an interesting personality, you know what I mean.
He he was the kind of guy he could bullshit
you all day long. But then man, they'd be th
those moments brou where you would sit down and have
a conversation about him, a conversation with him and Bruh,
it would be like life lessons, man, you know, And
those were always the moments that I truly cherished having

(57:36):
with him because you know, it would be like one
on one in the dressing room and he would just
start talking about some things, and he opened my eyes
to a lot of stuff, Bro. And the way I
run my band is still based on the way he
ran his band by giving guys opportunities a lot, allowing
him to contribute to the to to the the repertoire

(57:57):
of the group, and to the concept of what's happening
with the band. You know, I owe a huge that
of gratitude to that man because he really turned me around.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (58:08):
For four years, Dude, think about this.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Four years.

Speaker 7 (58:12):
I met all of my jazz heroes playing with him.
That's all. I met them all playing with.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Him because Max Roach was around them too, right, Like, man.

Speaker 7 (58:21):
Max, Okay, we're playing this club in New York, fat Tuesdays.
And then the table and it was a small little
club and then the table right in front was Max Roach, Uh,
Jack dsh and Net and I think Elvin Jones and
the three of them were sitting there, you know, and
I was like, Yez, you know, I'm fire. You know,

(58:48):
I'm in my early twenties and I'm trying. I'm trying
to play it off and be cool, but you know,
on the inside, I was sweating bullets. Man, Remember And
I remember walking by Max and Max was like, really
strong man. He grabbed my calf. I don't know why
he did it, but he grabbed my caf.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
You said, man, look at the calves.

Speaker 7 (59:12):
And I couldn't go nowhere. That was a funny part.
I forgot to tell you that part.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
I couldn't do it.

Speaker 7 (59:17):
I was stuck.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
I was like, damn, you know.

Speaker 4 (59:20):
Like next generation sharecrop a.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Talk wait Terrence. When you are when you're young and
you're in this institution, Yeah, how do you not how
do you resist the temptation to not flex?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Oh okay, So like when I DJ.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
When I DJ, it's me and in the audience, but
the second one of my peers comes in the DJ boost,
then the temptation, then the temptation to like play that rare,
obscure Japanese record that I brought that only we get
like the temptation in the flex, and I normally lose

(01:00:02):
my audience if I do it, and I might, you know,
and sometimes I've gave it, given it and just let
the audience, you know, uh, Prins fans. Everyone loved that ship,
whatever it is, AnyWho you.

Speaker 7 (01:00:24):
Know, being with I get what you're saying. I understand
because you know being with Art Man. Here's the thing
you got to remember, that was a long lency a
great musicians that came in up man before you, before
any of us. Right, so you already humbled just by
being in the band. And look at some of those
dudes would come by and hang out.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Man, you got back.

Speaker 7 (01:00:41):
Then you got to remember man, Woody Shaw would show up,
Freddie Hubber would show up, and those dudes would just
be sitting in the club hanging out. Damn okay, all right, man,
he's here checking me out, all right. Adie Henderson was
another one. And then the other part of it too
is that you know, we really wanted to learn, you know,
the our thing was, but I know my thing was

(01:01:03):
I wanted to learn as much as I could about
playing music because for some reason, even though I was young,
I knew that that moment was something to cherish, you
know what I mean. I didn't try to take it
for granted. So every little thing that I could, I
tried to milk as much out of it as I could,
you know. So I was like a fly on the wall.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (01:01:24):
Sometimes, Man, the guys would come by and they'd be
hanging in the dress room bro, and I would just
be sitting in a quiet as a church mouse, bro,
not saying a word, just watching and listening to these
conversations that's being had with Dexa Gordon or or or
you know, Walter Davis or Herbie or Algiol came by

(01:01:44):
side saying, well, one time Stanley Clark will come by
and play with us, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
But I've been more on stage, Like what because I
know that if you're in that position like the Temptations
has not to start showing off. We I mean, I'm
not saying you could take extra bars or not without
Art getting upset with you, but like what stops you
from showing off or we can't do that? Because I
could tell when like if cats knew it and I'm

(01:02:13):
watching them and suddenly like they're doing extra ship that
they don't need to be doing.

Speaker 7 (01:02:17):
I cure us of that because I.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Mean, he says, stop playing for the musicians.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
God damn it, thank you because I paid for his ticket,
and I would like to thank you because that did
not pay.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
For that ticket. That you're impressing what.

Speaker 7 (01:02:32):
He said, they're going to ask you for a free ticket.
And he said, you're gonna have to filing hands off
of one goddamn beer because they're not gonna buy nothing.
So stop paying.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Get out the mirror.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
I love it, but I'll take that. I'll take that advice.

Speaker 7 (01:02:46):
Like if I'll tell you this, but I will tell
you this, I will tell you this. Art was a
type of dude if your job, your job was always
in jeopardy, you know what I mean. So sometimes what
he would do is, man, he bring a dude up
on your instrument on the bandstand.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Oh no, that was.

Speaker 7 (01:03:05):
When you had to show out, you know what I'm saying.
So because exactly, and I remember, I forgot who it was.
I forgot who. I don't forgot who the trump player was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
He said, y'all play a ballad together. I want.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
I don't know him.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Wow, that was.

Speaker 7 (01:03:28):
Art man, you know. And then and then if there
ever was an inkling that Art was unhappy with somebody,
you kind of knew because there would be a whole
bunch of dudes with that instrument showing up to the gig.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
I'll never forget one time.

Speaker 7 (01:03:44):
Man, there was a whole bunch of ixophone player showed
up and they were just sitting on the side of
the stage. Man, I was like, damn. And when it
got time for Art to let him come up and play.
He let him come up. It was about five or
six of them. He let him come up and play,
and then he called Smedie's St Marvers. Betty Smith was
in the audience. He called him up to come play
the drums. Then he went in the dressing room.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
He was chilling.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
He was like, yeah, yeah, wow, that's coow. So why
why did you and uh Donald Harrison decided to leave
uh in your fourth year with uh Bar Polikey.

Speaker 7 (01:04:18):
Well, we knew it was time, man and and and
our band was the type of band where it was
like a finishing school for young musicians, so we didn't
want to occupy the space any longer. We knew other
musicians should have gotten that experience, and they've gotten signed
the Columbia Records. We had already made a record with
George Wien's label on Concord Records, but Columbia. George Butler

(01:04:39):
had signed us to Columbia and we.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Were getting I was gonna say, can you can you
describe what?

Speaker 7 (01:04:46):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I know many people that worked with George Butler, especially
like during that period, what what was Butler like? As
was he an a r of jazz at Columbia or
was he.

Speaker 7 (01:04:59):
The vice president in our jast? He was, man, George
was a cool dude with me. Man, you know, I
know a lot of people had took issue with George.
George was the type of guy you know he was.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
He was.

Speaker 7 (01:05:13):
How do I say it? He knew how to maneuver,
you know, and in his maneuvering, you know, some people
didn't like what it is that he would do. But
he was good by us, you know what I mean.
And I remember even after me and Donald the band
split up, he signed me on as a you know,

(01:05:34):
as a solo artist there. And uh, we always had
like a really great relationship. Man. You know, I had
told him, I had told him this very vogue funny
story one time, man, and you know it was funny
because George was a real proper guy.

Speaker 5 (01:05:48):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:05:50):
But but we would hang out and uh, have some
drinks and he'd be like with some friends, told tell
them that story, tell him that story.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
He's a funny dude.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I'm afraid to ask for that story now.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
No, not just because I'm here. You would do it,
would you? You would do it if I want to
hear because.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
I'm okay, Okay, that's fine, because I just want you
to know I'm raunchy, So I could probably challenge you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Yeah, maybe, yeah, probably Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Well, at the time, at the time when when you
and Donald were heading up the band, how do you
how are decisions made creatively as far as what direction
to go or who gets what or who?

Speaker 7 (01:06:34):
Yeah, that was that was a tough one. I mean,
you know, it was a tough thing. But that we
looked at the band as like a workshop man, you know,
so everybody was bringing the material and that's basically how
we did it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:06:46):
Uh, He'd write music, I'd write music. And then the
interesting thing about it, like sometimes he would write music
and I would be influenced by what he was writing.
So that's why the band had a sound, you know
what I mean? Because I think even though we were
all writing different material, I think we were all kind
of like on the same page music, you know. And
then around that time, man having that band together. You

(01:07:09):
know Ralph Peterson who we just lost, God rest his soul.
He was like one of the one of the first,
one of the drummers in the band, Marvin Smadie Smith
was one of the drummers in the band. And then
we had Carl Allen uh and you know, you know
how it is, and there, you know, with a drummer
concept the tone for any band, you know what I mean.

(01:07:30):
So that was also one of the things that kind
of helped take the sound of the group when the
drummers were changed.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
I can imagine that your kind of instant foray into
the world of scoring for movies wasn't exactly like a
goal or at least I assumed. So half the time
you wind up in places that you didn't plan on.
It just happens to you. So how did you even
get involved in the world of scoring?

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Man?

Speaker 7 (01:08:04):
You know, you know, I'm glad you asked that question, man,
because I you know, I've been asked that question a
lot of well, not that question, I've been asked what's
you know, what would you tell young composers? And I'm
always at a loss because I'm like, man, I wasn't
looking for this and it just fell on my lap.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:08:21):
We were doing the pre recorded music for more Better
Blues for the actors to act to, you know, and
I was getting ready to do my first record solo
project I was just telling you about for George Butler
Columbia Records. So I had written a song man for
the Kids that were mastered in South Africa, and it
was called Cinciuato. And we had taken a break in

(01:08:42):
the studio and I was playing it on the piano
and Spike walk by and he heard it and he said, man,
what is that? And I said, oh, man, this is
this thing called Sincuato. He goes, can I use it?
I go, yeah, yeah, sure. And we just recorded it
just as a solo trumpet piece back then, and and Denzel
shot the scene and it's a scene when he's on
the bridge playing right right, and then uh, they got

(01:09:02):
to they got back to the editing room. Spike was
trying to fill it in. He put training notises and
it still wasn't really making what wasn't doing what he
wanted to do. So then he came back to me
and He said, hey, man, you think you could write
a string arrangement for this?

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
You know?

Speaker 7 (01:09:16):
And I always tell my students that's the moment. Well
you know you lie, you know, And I said, absolute, hell, yeah,
I can write arrange before. You know what I mean. So,
I mean what I did to calling my teacher, man,
and you got to tell me what to do. Dude,

(01:09:37):
you know you had.

Speaker 6 (01:09:38):
Never done it before. You had no clue of how
to do it. Friday, No, man, Wow.

Speaker 7 (01:09:42):
I studied composition, you know what I mean. But but
but I never had to do that. And as a
matter of fact, that's what he told me, he said,
trust the training. I was like, dude, that's not the
I was looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Wait, so there's there's a musical motif of yours that
I've heard and least three or four of Spikes films.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
I'm this could be it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
I've been looking for it for starters, like I'm mad
that with the exception of Malcolm X, like most of
your Spike scores are not available. What is the name
of the song that is do the Right Thing?

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
It's in Mo Better.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
It's also in Malcolm X. But I can never find anywhere.
But it's like, uh, It's like Spike has used this
at least in ten music cues Malcolm X. But how

(01:10:44):
come that is not it's not anywhere that's available.

Speaker 7 (01:10:49):
Yeah, but what you're probably singing is the jazz version.
There's another, there's some other versions of it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
And I've heard it as instrumental, I've heard as strings.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
I've heard it.

Speaker 7 (01:10:58):
As yeah, that stuff that You're right, that stuff listen
that that's that's a big thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:11:05):
I've been you know, I was talking to a publisher
about about that recently as a matter of fact, about
trying to do something to you, because people have been
asking me about that. You know, Yeah, when you start
to think about your legacy for your kids and everything
like that, and you know now that we've reached this
benchmark working together for thirty years, which is something you

(01:11:25):
didn't realize.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
A couple of years ago.

Speaker 7 (01:11:30):
When we now, a journalist asked us a question, how
does it feel to be working together for thirty years?

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
We're like, thirty years?

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Has it? Has it been that long?

Speaker 7 (01:11:40):
But you know, I was thinking about exactly that, bro
about trying to.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
I need I need a box set. I need a
box set for real, your entire history, every music cue
with with with Spike or at least just your your
entire story, because even the non Spike stuff you've done.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
But can we can I.

Speaker 5 (01:12:00):
Ask you, though you and Spike, can you just tell
us the quick quickness of that story and how y'all
even connected?

Speaker 7 (01:12:06):
Because well, you know, we connected just because there was
a musician named Harold vic jazz musician. He was friends
with his father, and he wanted to put together a
group of musicians that were young and old for these
sessions to do the right thing in school days and
all of that stuff. So I think it was school days.

(01:12:29):
So he hired a bunch of us, you know, to
play on it. And as a matter of fact, there's
a video man that's floating around of one of the sessions.
It's like who's who in jazz at the time in
New York City. It's pretty crazy and I'll never forget it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
Did who was there? Tell us about it?

Speaker 5 (01:12:45):
Was there?

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (01:12:45):
Just a lot of local guys, you know, you know,
Branfa was there, John Faddis was there. You know, a
bunch of folks. But I remember, man, I was a
big Lakers fan, right, so, and man, it had just
beat the Celtics burn. So I walk into the first session,
but I got had, I got my teacher, I got
my purple gold converse on, and I don't really know Spike,

(01:13:09):
oh God at all, you know. So I walk in
and he just looked me up and down and goes
Vaker's fan.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Huh uh boy.

Speaker 7 (01:13:22):
It's up man, you know, come on the next thing,
you know, man, he had me how take him back?
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
So how did how did that narrow down though, Terrence?

Speaker 5 (01:13:32):
Because you said it was a room full of musicians,
dope musicians, local musicians, mister Lee, but somehow it narrowed
down to just Spike in Terrence.

Speaker 7 (01:13:40):
Well, that happened when we started to do well was
a couple of things that happened.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:13:45):
Lenny White had he was he had this all girl band.
I forgot the name of the group, and he wanted
myles to play on this track. He couldn't get my house,
so he asked me to play me the thing on it,
and Spike used it in the in the song. So
Spike found out that that was me that played the soul.
So then we kind of connected on that. And then
when it came time to do the right thing. We

(01:14:06):
kind of just connected a little bit together, but it
really happened on a moleit of blues when we were
doing those pre records. You know, we started doing pre
records and hearing me playing the piano, That's when everything
started to turn around, you know. And it's been an
interesting journey with my brother Man. You know he is.
He's brilliant, man beyond belief. He's loyal beyond belief. And

(01:14:27):
one of the things I got to tell you, guys, Man,
a lot of people don't really notice Man, but fights
for people. He fights for people, Man, and I've never
seen him miss an opportunity to to to to fight
for African American artists or like when we were in London, Man,
you know, we were at the Baptist and I'm drawing

(01:14:51):
a blank on my man's name.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
They did the movie.

Speaker 7 (01:14:57):
About the rock and roll singer. Yeah, what was the
guy who played played the character?

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:15:10):
When Rommy won Best Actor at the Bafts, you would
have thought Spike One. He jumped up and he was
so happy for Rommi, you know what I mean, Because
you know, we're just trying to break down these barriers, Man,
and create equal opportunities for a lot of people, you know,

(01:15:31):
we Man, We'd being interviews together and people would ask
me a controversial question in l A and he would
grab me and he goes, don't answer that. He said,
let me answer that, because you got to work in
this town. He's always doing stuff like that. A lot
of people don't really realize that. And he's Listen. I've
met people who have come to me and said, man,

(01:15:54):
Spike is your biggest advocate. He's been fighting for you
to get these nominations for me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
So so dope, Man, Yeah, I voted for you.

Speaker 7 (01:16:02):
You do, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
I voted. Hey, I have two uh better questions for you.
One were you Denzel's teacher as far as the fingering
all that stuff? How how long did that take? What
was the process like? And now fast man?

Speaker 7 (01:16:19):
You know, we had to learn because at first, I
mean I had never done that before. So at first
I started making like little videos for him and I
would send him to him out of LA and that
was kind of helpful. But we got him a teacher
out in LA just to show him how to buzz.
And then when we when he came to New York,
New York, what I figured out was you know, hey, man,

(01:16:40):
I need to write out the fingerings just on a
piece of paper. So for all of the tunes, he
had like sheets of paper with just the fingers. So
between running how the buzz and the fingers, he actually
kind of learned how to play all the melodies.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
You know. So really, what's buzzing just when you take
the mouthpiece.

Speaker 7 (01:17:01):
Trying to get a sound on. That's how you get
a sound out of producing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
So is that him playing one again? Never?

Speaker 7 (01:17:13):
You know what that is?

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
That's my worst nightmare.

Speaker 7 (01:17:15):
You know what that is?

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
What?

Speaker 7 (01:17:17):
First of all, you had to be there. It was
hilarious because we started when we started doing takes, Spike
up saying it's not messed up enough, man, it's not
right in front of me, man. And what I started
to do was I started to move to trumpet off
to the side of my left where I could never
really play right, really tried to play right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
So that's what you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Hear, man, I'm telling you. In the history of cinema,
short of maybe like a Sault film or or any
of those like extreme worry, violent like in the movie,

(01:18:01):
that is my worst in.

Speaker 4 (01:18:05):
Your mouth with your own instrument, that's not.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
That that leads to it. I'm gonna get you at
the drune that that leads to it. Yes, But my
second question, my second.

Speaker 7 (01:18:16):
We need for that movie. What what the lobby spike
because I know it's sitting around somewhere. We need to
have him find the outtakes of Robin Hacke.

Speaker 6 (01:18:26):
Yes, I was gonna ask you, man, I was gonna
ask you, did you have any interaction with Robin while
you on the set?

Speaker 7 (01:18:30):
He was, He was a sweetheart, He was a nice guy.
But let me just tell you this. Everybody would shoot
that scenes and other dudes are being at trailers. Robin
Hans would shoot his scene.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Everybody.

Speaker 7 (01:18:40):
Everybody was on set. Everybody every single time was on set.

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
Hurry up and ask you a question to me. I
want to ask Hm about that after party scene. Come on,
can we come on?

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Okay, Well, I have a question. I asked Brand for
this on his episode, but his answer didn't satisfy me
enough because I want to know the science of the scene.
So at the very beginning, when they're doing say hey, yeah,
there's there's a really genius point, you know, where shadows

(01:19:12):
sort of interjects and and takes over. The song keeps
or no, no, no, where Denzel's character prevents Wesley Snipe's
character from hogging up the solo spot. And but to me,
that moment of interruption was so authentic, and you guys
kept it on the soundtrack sort of the messed up

(01:19:35):
and that part where how how was that choreograph because
it wasn't like they had to shoot that scene first
and you guys are in post following them so like,
but it's so spot on, imperfect.

Speaker 8 (01:19:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:19:49):
No, we just did it in the studio, man, I remember,
you know, we did a couple of takes of it,
you know where Brianford would just play then all of
a sudden, I would just interrupted.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
And it's the idea was that to make sure that
it happens on the soundtrack, of all things?

Speaker 7 (01:20:04):
Oh, on the soundtrack, you know what that's that's a
good question. Yeah, well back then we were trying to
just make sure that whatever we put on a soundtrack
was kind of authentic and true to what people saw
on the screen. I know a lot of times people
take alternate takes and put on the soundtracks, but you know,
Spike wanted people to experience to see.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
And I thought that was such a bold move because
it's like, even without context, I always wondered like people
for the few people that like just had the soundtrack
or heard the soundtrack without knowing the context for which
that occurred. But for me, hearing that mistake on there
was definitely like one of the key moments where like,

(01:20:44):
you know a lot of my my trademarks of what
I do musically is quote sounding messed up.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
But for me, hearing that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Was just like such a come to Jesus moment, like,
oh you can. You could purposely fuck up the record
and it'd be.

Speaker 7 (01:21:01):
Cool, Like I don't you know what I break? You
used to say, Man, I breaks to say. I try
to make my drum sauce sound like I said of
drums falling down the flight of stairs.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
Wow. Wow Wow. So with ask your uh uh at
the party because I want to ask another scoring.

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
I just wanted to have how many moments you had
where they were like so in the after party moment,
one of the famous scenes about you know, get the
people what they want.

Speaker 4 (01:21:28):
If you play to people like people to our people
will come, The people will come. Who is who is
Trece Blanchard in that conversation?

Speaker 7 (01:21:36):
Huh? That's interesting? Well, I'm I'm definitely not totally in
that direction. But just one thing I will say, and
I got this from all Blak, and he said, never
play above your audience, never played beneath him, just play
straight to him.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:21:50):
And that's what I firmly believe. I think there has
to be a combination of both things.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:21:55):
I don't want to be that jazz musician who so
aricant to always think that people have to come up
to my level to experience what it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Is that I do. No, they want to need them
where they are right.

Speaker 7 (01:22:05):
That makes no sense, you know. So for me, I
try to create music that helps heal souls and helps
to kind of change some hearts and minds about it's
a ission. So if I got to come to you,
that's what I'm going to do.

Speaker 4 (01:22:17):
And what's pop top forty fun to make?

Speaker 7 (01:22:20):
Oh it man, We've been We've We've done these shows
around the world and a lot of different countries with orchestras,
and the shows of the shows are the music of
Spike me and we have visuals and we'll bring we'll
bring vocalists out and sing all of the songs and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
And they're very hard to get into terrence.

Speaker 7 (01:22:39):
Yes, that's one of the hits people, booty booty, booty
titty titty.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
But how sorry, how how when you're presented with uh,
a new challenge, a new project, how how long does
it take you to even begin to craft? What is
it going to be? Or is it so shotgun where

(01:23:08):
it's like a gun to your head. You're giving it
daily and in three weeks you got to come up
with something.

Speaker 7 (01:23:15):
You know, man, you know what it's brouh. It's gotten
to the point now where I just tell myself just start,
just start, you know what I mean? Because I used
to freak out and try to overthink things a lot
of times. Man, And when you sit down thinking too much,
you're not really accomplishing anything. That's why when I'm not working,
when i'm in between like projects, bruh, that's when I'm

(01:23:36):
doing my homework on my plugins, on my sound design,
on everything that I need to do. So when it's
time for me to work, I could just go ahead
and do certain things, you know what I mean. So
for example, you know, I'm working on a project and
I needed to craft a certain type of thing sound
for the show, and the first start in my mind was, Oh,

(01:23:57):
I need these types of drums. Let me get these
drums up boom when we start play some rhythms, and
once I start putting these rhythms in the next thing,
you know, that's the sparkling idea of like, oh, I
need to create this sequence baseline, so let me get
in here and start messing around with the sequencer and
the thing and put that together, and I need to
have something in the middle. So it's almost like it's

(01:24:17):
like putting together a puzzle, you know, but the puzzle
is like specifically designed for whatever project that you're working
on at the time. Because all of the inspirations and
this is the thing, man, this is one of the
things I always tell my kids. I said, look, man,
look at your craft, because you never know where inspiration
is gonna come from. Sometimes it's rhythm, sometimes it's a melody.

(01:24:38):
Sometimes it's just a sound. Sometimes it's a group of harmony,
harmonic progressions. It could be a lot of different things,
you know, but if you have your tools together, whatever
it is, you'll be able to take it further and
find what's fine. You'll be able to flush the idea out.
That's the thing that I always used to say. My

(01:25:00):
my teacher used to tell me all the time, it's
like whidbling, you know, just chipping away at it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Okay, Spike Aside and our audience should know that you've
done many a classic film. You've done sugar Hill, the Ink,
Well Eves by You, You've done Uh, you did you
with uh what's your name?

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Yeah, Angelina?

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
I remember I believe that you did Friday or Next
Friday with you? What what non Spike associated project was
enjoyable to you?

Speaker 7 (01:25:42):
All of them?

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Man? Are you kidding?

Speaker 7 (01:25:45):
All of them? The Friday series was hilarious, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Right?

Speaker 7 (01:25:49):
I mean, you know, watching Mike Man in those scenes
that dude, it's funny.

Speaker 10 (01:25:53):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (01:25:55):
Those were fun.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:25:56):
Working with George Lucas on Redtails was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
All right.

Speaker 7 (01:26:01):
I mean you know it's it's about working with Casey
Lemons on Harriet. You know, we worked on some other
things together, a bunch of movies together. The guy that
I did Geo with is actually the guy that wrote
the libretto for my first opera, Michael Christoffer. You know,
doing Love and Basketball that was like really a lot
of fun. I had a great time doing that because

(01:26:22):
for me, man, It's like it goes back to the
thing I was telling you about earlier. It's about learning
and expanding. You know, all of those all of those
projects helped me to grow in a lot of different ways.
You know, I'm not the guy that ever think that
I have it together. You know, I'm always trying to
acquire knowledge and experiences, you know, and I look at

(01:26:45):
all of those things. What was the TV show that
I did with Halle Barry Their eyes were watching God?

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
Oh wow?

Speaker 5 (01:26:51):
Yeah, Michael, yeah, yeah. You know, No, you don't do
projects unless you really feel I'm on terrence.

Speaker 7 (01:26:59):
Just sense of doing it as a matter of fact.

Speaker 5 (01:27:01):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:27:01):
What's interesting about that, and it was when I first
got in the business, man, I had to turn down
eleven scripts, you know, and I hated doing it, but
I had to do it for a reason because you know,
all of the leven scripts were black films, you know,
and one of the things that I tried to do
was and they weren't you know, like Harriet Clublin or

(01:27:23):
anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:27:25):
One of the things that I was trying to make
a point to my agent at the time. It's a
different age. I have a different agent now, was I
don't want you to see me that way. You know,
I don't mind doing those films. I don't have a
problem doing those pictures, but I'm turning them down because
that's all you're bringing to me, you know what I mean.
And you need to see me in such a way

(01:27:46):
where anything should be on my table, not just that,
you know. And I paid a price for it. I
didn't work for for a long time, you know what
I mean. But I just felt like if I didn't
take a stand, they will just see me as one thing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
They would typecast you.

Speaker 7 (01:28:05):
And I hated it because I wasn't trying to make
an indictment on the films, you know, you see what
I mean. It wasn't that I wasn't trying to make
an indictment on the films. What I was saying about
was to my agent, It's like, yo, dude, really, I mean,
because I have a certain part. It became comical. I'm like,
eleven scripts, dude, really really eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
Any notable films that you had to turn down or
that you've turned down that were like a damn. I
didn't know that Avatar was going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
I really wanted to do the Miles movie.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
You know, I was going to ask you you.

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
Died you? No?

Speaker 5 (01:28:47):
You?

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
Yeah. I think it was good to see.

Speaker 7 (01:28:50):
When they were talking about doing it. You know, Miles listen,
that's my hero, so right, you know, I wanted to
be a part of it.

Speaker 6 (01:28:56):
Although I did like i'd been like what Glasser did
for I mean, I didn't have no problems with the
music I thought the movie was in, but I really
did like what glass did for that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Yeah, okay, so scoring I'm not. I'm not a full
time scorer, so I'm not that deep in the poem,
still in the shallow end of it. And shout out
to Spike who got me my first scoring thing with
the commercial. But what I what I do notice is

(01:29:29):
that I'm used to it now. But in the very
beginning I used to be frustrated because oftentimes you're having
sort of creative direction conversations with people who aren't necessarily.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
They don't speak the language. It's very frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
So but the thing is is that how do you
handle Like I learned early, and it's hard, especially hard
for me because I learned early in scoring that drums
get in the way. So I took drums. You know,
if you're asking a drummer to score a film and
then I take drums out of it. I've learned like
to stay out of the dialogue's way and all those things.

(01:30:08):
But now I kind of have a new system where,
you know, I've dealt so much with with people with
people like knowing what they don't want as opposed to
what they do want, whereas I'll just ask them, Okay,
you obviously have like something in your head five songs,
Give me five songs in your head that you think

(01:30:29):
fits the scene, and then I can craft around that
and it makes it easy. But what's your what's your
process in dealing with someone that doesn't speak the language
and kind of makes you go back, like what was
your hardest task as a filmmaker If you're not.

Speaker 7 (01:30:44):
Gonna, we're not gonna, We're not gonna go.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
There, you know, that's hold down to them.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
Where you have to go back and do something over
again and over and over.

Speaker 7 (01:30:57):
No, No, I've never had to had had that. It's
more along the lines of just trying to find a
baseline of communication, you know what I mean. Miles, who
was my mentor in this business. That was one thing
that he told me. He said, that's what you're really
being paid for. He said, listen, man, we all can
write music for film.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:31:17):
You know it's it's it's really about following the story
and becoming a storyteller with your music.

Speaker 1 (01:31:22):
He said.

Speaker 7 (01:31:23):
The hard part is just trying to figure out which
way to go with that because a lot of times
there's so many ways to deal with it. You know,
you have to find that common ground with the person
who's producing the project. And that's where you know, a
good friend of mine, Mike Post, you know, he's a
great TV Yeah. Yeah, Mike told me one time he said, listen, man.
He had a project and he said he was having

(01:31:46):
an issue talking to a director, and I thought this
was brilliant man. He said, man, why don't you come
over to my studio. And Mike would just sit down
and play a chord and say, all right, tell me
what you feel, and then he would write it down
other coordins, they tell me what you feel, And he
created a baseline of communication. From that point of view,

(01:32:07):
I try to do more of what you what you
were just talking about. I mean, you know when I
when I said, listen, tell me what it is, that
you're hearing. If you have a playlist, send me the playlist.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:32:21):
And and you're always trying to get at the core.
But here's here's the here's the thing about it, though.
You know, the people who are coming to you have
to be open to stuff too.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
And they have to trust you.

Speaker 7 (01:32:35):
They have to trust you. And when and when and
when there isn't that trust, it can be rough.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:32:42):
Look but look, man, but sometimes as a musician, you
gotta you gotta open up your eyes to listen. I
just worked with Regina.

Speaker 1 (01:32:49):
King on Miami.

Speaker 7 (01:32:52):
In Miami, and you know, when we first started talking
about the score, you know, I had pitched a lot
of different ideas to and I sentiment she said, well no,
I kept thinking, she said, I think it should be
just like one instrument. I kept pitching these other ideas
to her, and she and looked to her credit, she
checked it all out, listened to everything, you know, and

(01:33:13):
then she said, you know, because you know it was
the first time doing it, you know, first time reco there.
So she went through the process and she said, yeah,
but I'm still feeling this other thing. So we went
that direction and we just decided to just do piano,
and it wound up being beautiful and wound up being
a very unique thing. Everybody's talking about the music for
the film, you know, and that's just where me as

(01:33:34):
a film composer, you know, I came at it with
a certain thing, but I had to sit back and go, Okay, I'll.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
See where she's coming from.

Speaker 7 (01:33:41):
I went to them, you know, with another director too,
similar kind of situation, so both people have to be
open on both sides. And when you run into that
situation where you don't have that, it's just difficult. It's
I mean, there's no other way around it, because the
word is collaboration, you know, not the hattership, you know
what I'm saying. So that's that's where for me, I've

(01:34:05):
been blessed, you know, because most of the people that
I've been working with are true collaborators.

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:34:12):
I've had people tell me sometimes, damn, bro, you gave
me some insight into my film that I didn't see,
which is a compliment. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
Then I've had people, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:34:21):
Who expand my horizons by getting me to see a
bigger picture about how to tell stories, you know. So
it's the reason why I love doing this.

Speaker 6 (01:34:30):
Have you learned or have it hasn't been your experience
that doing film composing for film and TV and stuff
has been your experience that that has helped you in
your regular quote unquote recording career, because you know, because
for me, man like that, you know, as a young man,
when I was younger, I would take rejection like really personally,

(01:34:52):
like you know a lot of us do. But then
when I started doing stuff for TV and music and
you know, TV and movies whatever, it's just like, hey,
if a song don't work, it just don't work.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
Just do another song.

Speaker 6 (01:35:03):
You don't think about it, you know, you don't take
it personally. It's just like, don't mean all right, I'm
the worst songwriting the words. It's like, Yo, this shit
didn't work.

Speaker 7 (01:35:10):
Just do another one, right, and that's it. And that's
you're out, man, Because then it's not an indictment.

Speaker 1 (01:35:14):
On you, you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:35:15):
That's the thing. When you realize that, it kind of
frees you up from all of that other stuff that
comes along with that. You know, when you realize, like, man,
look it's still in you. Just go try something else,
you know what I mean? And I go and listen.

Speaker 5 (01:35:28):
Bro.

Speaker 7 (01:35:29):
Sometimes I go through that before it gets to the director.
I'm saying, I'll work on some stuff. And while I'm
doing it, Bro, I'm sitting there going what it's missing something?
It's missing something. Let me go ahead and work on that,
boom and I'll do that for a day or two, bro,
and then come back and I go, you know what
is missing the real que? So let me this away

(01:35:53):
and start over from scratch. How has that helped you
in your hold the live performance?

Speaker 6 (01:35:59):
Yeah, just a live performance, and also when recording your records,
house film composition helps you in that area.

Speaker 7 (01:36:03):
Oh man. Look, eventually it opened my eyes up to
about using different colors on the band stand. Even when
I had my jazz band, I was still putting using
the pedals and stuff on my horn, you know, effects
on my horn, and which eventually let me into the ecollective.
You know what I mean, Because for me, like I

(01:36:24):
told you earlier, it's about utilizing these tools to tell
a story. Bro, you know what I mean. And it's
kind of funny, you know, It's like everybody there was
this great guitarist, man, I guess you got to know
Leonella Wake and played with Herbie.

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):
Yeah, I was going to ask this man, I love him. Man,
he's dope.

Speaker 7 (01:36:41):
So you know when Leone was in my band, Man,
we do these shows and Leonete would be playing and
have these loops going and all of this stuff going on,
and everybody would always come up after the show and
want to look at the pedals, you know, and they
wanted to so it said, bro, Okay, he's got the pedals,
but the pedals are tools. It really here, you know
what I mean, It's not my mind. So that's the

(01:37:04):
thing that film helped me to realize. It's like, you know,
are you still trying to tell the story the same
way that Miles told the story? And he's not even
doing it that way anymore. So and look, I got
to tell you this story. This was this was man,
this was funny. Uh but it was a wake up
call for me. So I'm on tour with Herbie Hancock.

(01:37:25):
This was right before Barack Obama was elected the first time,
and we were on tour in Europe and we were
playing some some of the Herbie's classic tunes, but he
had put these new arrangements on them, so we had
to speak like a child, and he had put a
lot meter in it and did some other stuff to it.

(01:37:46):
And then one day at soundcheck, man he started playing
a straight ahead version to speak like a child. So
Kendrick Scott, the drummer, he dumped up and started playing,
and James Jenis was playing base and he started walking
and Herbie started playing and we were just sitting there going,
that's killing, you know what I mean, And because they
sounded like old Herbie from the Blue Note Manday, Yeah,

(01:38:09):
that was killing and Herbie, you know, we were trying
not to maken use because we didn't want Herbie to
see how we were reacting to what he was doing. Man,
Herbie stood up and he goes, that just sounds so
old to me.

Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
Wow, And we were like.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
Yeah, trying to play it off.

Speaker 7 (01:38:28):
Yeah right, okay, all right, all right, yeah, yeah, that's
an ulster.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
How do you how do you stop from being in
but how do you stop from being in your head?
Because I think oftentimes, I know many are artists that
will make all these new arrangements of their same songs
because they think that the audience has been there at
all nine thousand shows of their entire career. Yeah, and oftentimes, yes,

(01:38:54):
the audience wants the meat and potatoes version of the
song that would served to them as they were it
because you're there to serve their memory, or at least
the audience thinks that you're there to serve their memory.
But how do you how do you stop from going
down that that rabbit hole of reinvention to the point
where you lose the original script.

Speaker 7 (01:39:17):
I just don't do the reinvention part, you know what
I mean, because I know what you're talking about, because
and I've seen it do exactly that. So I try
to stay away from it a little bit. I mean,
you know, every nine and then we might do something.
But the stuff that happens with us, it happens naturally.
It may just happen over the course of us playing

(01:39:37):
every night. Guys may throw a little something in it
all a sarther room. But I try to go that road,
you know, because what we try to do is we
try to just keep moving forward, you know, excuse me.
So for us, you know, we have an object and

(01:39:58):
that that's in can Now. I still have to to
finish where we did the music of Wayne Shorter with
the Turtle out and string quartet, you know, and it's
a really cool album, and uh, you know, we got
to we're gonna once we put that out, we'll probably
be turning out music.

Speaker 2 (01:40:17):
I got to ask before we wrap up about what
made you want to create? First of all, how does
one create an opera?

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
I even reading that, like, I don't know, I had
the hiccups, Like obviously I felt I felt very overwhelmed,
Like wait a minute, how does one it even begin
to craft an opera? Like, so walk us through, uh
in creating operas? And how how does it start?

Speaker 7 (01:40:48):
Okay, it starts by somebody coming up to you and saying, man,
we want you to write an opera, and me bending
over the table trying to smell their breath to make
sure they weren't drunk. Do you have the right, dude,
me write an opera? And they say, ye know. And
you know the guy Jim Robinson, who's become a really
good friend of mine, he was like yeah, he said,

(01:41:09):
I love the album The Tale of God's Will. And
they were trying to find some diversity and you know
what they were doing and creating new operas in Saint Louis.
So once they hired me, they listen, man, they were
smart about how they did it. So once they signed
me up, commission me to do this, they brought me
to see their season and I actually just sat there

(01:41:33):
and went to a bunch of operas in Saint Louis, right.

Speaker 4 (01:41:37):
Yes, St. Louis.

Speaker 7 (01:41:38):
Yeah. And then and then once I once I did that,
then you know, they paired me.

Speaker 1 (01:41:44):
You know, I.

Speaker 7 (01:41:45):
Started writing some sketches out and look, bro it it
is a daunting task. And the first time I did it,
I was so freaked out about it. They had to
reschedule my premier, you know what I mean. I was
supposed to open one year and I said, no, no, no, no, no,
he ain't ready. Let's do another year. Because I was
the one, you know, because I was just trying to

(01:42:07):
do so much research and I was just like overwhelmed
with the whole idea. But it was my composition teacher again, Roger.
He said, man, stop trying to write an opera. Just
tell a story, you know. And when once he did that,
that kind of freed me up. And then I thought
about something a friend of mine was saying. You know,
he said, listen, bro, look go ahead and just write
your stuff, write your oper and tell your story. He said,

(01:42:29):
if it doesn't work. You can just say that just
ain't my ship, you know what I mean. I tried
it my thing, and I did, and I just tried
to be as honest as I could. But here's the thing.
My father wanted to be an opera singer. My father
was a bartrone. So I used to hear operatic music
in the house all the time, you know what I mean,
And all of that, all of those tones, all of

(01:42:49):
those those lines, and all of that development of how
an orchestra can have a rush of energy, all of
that was in my system. You know. I didn't really
realize that. Yeah, And then when I started, when I
had the first draft of the melodic lines, man, we said,
actually before then, you know what they did, which was beautiful.

(01:43:12):
And then, man, if anybody wants to write an operation
to do this, what they did was they had a
group of actors just read the libretto like a play,
and I recorded it right because then I could hear
the story, you know what I mean, I could hear
it unfold. I could hear the inflections and the voices
and all of that stuff. So once I got the

(01:43:33):
melodic line down, then we just started having workshops with singers.
Man and I started learning about how to write for voice,
because come on, writing for an instrument, bro, I'm writing
for cello. The cello's rangers from here to here, you know,
I know what it is, you know, But every baritone
is different, you know what I mean. So some people
call themselves baritone, and then more of a bass baritone
they could produce more lowtones, and some other guys are

(01:43:55):
more like in the tenor range. So I had to
go through all of that. But the main thing about
it all is that they basically just kind of like
ushered me through every step of it. And then once
I got through it, man, when it came time to
do the second one, I just had so I had
more experience and I just felt more comfortable with what
it is that I wanted to do. And I got

(01:44:16):
to tell you, it's so rewarding, man, because you sit
in a room all day writing these lines. But man,
when these guys start to move around stage singing these
lines and these words and they bring in the lighting
and the boardrobe and all of this stuff, it's a
really powerful thing. And I tell people it's the highest
form of a musical that your lover ever see. You

(01:44:39):
know what I mean, I think there's room for all
different types of people to experience opera, you know. And
I'll just.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
Say this and I'll let it go.

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
Will you do a third.

Speaker 7 (01:44:50):
Yeah, as a matter of fact, that there's talks about
that now. But you know, when my opera came to
New Orleans, man, it was a bit of a controversial thing.
That were a lot of people who were seizing ticket
holders who wouldn't release their tickets and didn't come to
my show, you know. Yeah, but I said that cool. Yeah,
that's cool. I mean because the people that did come

(01:45:11):
packed the place.

Speaker 1 (01:45:12):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:45:13):
And when they packed it, I remember this brother man,
he came up to me. He must have been like
seventy five years old, and one thing he said, he said, Man,
if this is opera, I will come right, I said,
And that was the best compliment I could have ever gotten,
because what it made me feel like was, that's part
of what's missing in the opera is our called it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:35):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 (01:45:36):
Those story someone who never would have been got into
opera otherwise if not for.

Speaker 7 (01:45:40):
You, because he could relate to the story. You know
what I mean. The story was Neil Griffith in nineteen
sixty five, so he can really relate.

Speaker 5 (01:45:47):
And I was going to ask you, why is full
circle moment? Like I thought about New Orleans, and I
thought about Casey Lemons being like the director of his opera,
like out of all the directors.

Speaker 7 (01:45:57):
Made me what she did that's the second when she
wrote for Okay, my brother for the second one, because
you know, I love Casey man, and and uh, when
it came time to do Charles Blows book, I had
to have her that. What was funny was they flew,
they flew d to Saint Louis man to hang out.
And man, you know, Casey is like a dog with

(01:46:20):
a bone.

Speaker 5 (01:46:20):
Man.

Speaker 7 (01:46:20):
So wherever you saw Charles walking with Casey right behind,
you know, asking ques like three days. But she she
did her thing.

Speaker 4 (01:46:29):
She was brilliant.

Speaker 5 (01:46:31):
Yeah, I feel like she's a little unsung, but she
sung a lot of places.

Speaker 7 (01:46:35):
I mean looking man, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:46:39):
Oh, I was gonna say, man, my favorite score of
yours and I think some of just my favorite music
of yours. It's from a movie that wasn't that popular,
but I love what you did for it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:49):
She hate me scoring?

Speaker 4 (01:46:50):
Why you do it?

Speaker 1 (01:46:52):
Dude? Man?

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
I love that fucking score. That ship is gorgeous. Dude,
shn't like I mean, the movie was the movie, but
the score, and.

Speaker 4 (01:47:02):
We already spike about the movie, so you don't got
to hold.

Speaker 7 (01:47:05):
Up a lot of people are.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
Yeah, but the score. Man.

Speaker 6 (01:47:11):
I love you know what you did, and like your
record with Rob Me don that, Adam and Eve and Eve.

Speaker 7 (01:47:16):
You know that dude? Man? You know me playing some
of the keyboard lines on that. Yeah, ask your boy
Derek is playing based on that? Man?

Speaker 6 (01:47:25):
Yep, Yeah, what do you remember recording by because that
that melody? Like, I just I love that man.

Speaker 7 (01:47:33):
I just remember being in the studio with him and
the energy was just like on point from the first
take and it just felt like I don't know how
to explain it. I guess you guys have gone through this.

Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:47:44):
You start off doing that track and it has that
energy and you think that's sitting and somebody adds something
and it just keeps you know what I mean, And
that's what was happening with that track man. You know, man,
we just had so much fun and Raoul was open
to it all.

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
You know, you could.

Speaker 7 (01:48:00):
I remember there's this there's this little solo keyboard line
that I played right going into one of the transitions,
and he was he was cool with everything. Man, you know,
so we just we were just going for it, having fun.

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
Well I'm I'm predicting, yes, even if it's against my
own film. Oh no, only because but the thing is
Trend and Atticus are Actually it's it's so weird when
the Academy allows a nominee to to come in twice

(01:48:36):
because it's just gonna split. They're in for two films.
They're in for.

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
Souls, there for Mink. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
So yeah, so like this this could be a year.
But not to gas you up on that, but is
that I mean, I know the PC answers. Yes, I
don't get caught up in those things. Do it for
the love, but you know, it's it has to be

(01:49:03):
an exhilarating honor too.

Speaker 4 (01:49:05):
And this day tomorrow is voting day.

Speaker 7 (01:49:08):
So just saying no, look, man, no, I ain't got
no shame in my game when any of that comes across,
you know what I mean. I never thought this would
happen to me, Are you kidding? Dude? I thought I
was gonna be a dude who had a day job
and play jazz because I love playing music, so all
of this stuff is grazy gravy, you know what I mean.
And then to be recognized in such a way and

(01:49:29):
amongst some of some of the films that some have
been some of the greatest films that have been produced. Man,
it's a huge honor, you know what I mean. I mean,
you're right, it's not it's not the reason that we
do this, obviously, you know what I mean. We've had
a passion for just being creative, period. But but the
honor itself is huge, you know what I mean. It

(01:49:52):
doesn't go past me, you know what I mean. I'm sorry.
My father's not around to see that, you know. And
probably a good thing because they would have to keep
his ass off the stage if you have the show.
But you know, it's one of those things that makes
you proud for your family, my kids, because they really
get a big kick out of it. My wife.

Speaker 1 (01:50:13):
Man.

Speaker 7 (01:50:14):
Hell yeah, when I got nominated the first time, Man,
I was on the road. I came home. Man, it
was like ship all over the house everywhere. Man, I couldn't.
I was tired. I said, Man, I just want to relax, Man,
So you know, I said, I'm going upstairs. One of
them says, all over the big.

Speaker 4 (01:50:32):
Yeah, because Oscar me escra oh was coming extra zero.

Speaker 7 (01:50:38):
All of the events when we went to that was
for her. That had nothing to do with me, you
know what I mean? I just that was it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:47):
Yes, if anyone is on their way to uh An
e Got or a ghetto, I definitely feel.

Speaker 7 (01:50:54):
To you man and thank you for sir.

Speaker 5 (01:50:57):
I was gonna ask, does it mean something that that
John teases in the in the category with you in
New Orleans?

Speaker 7 (01:51:02):
Brothers my brother man. You know I've been doing that, dude,
man since she was a little kid. You know. As
a matter of fact, one of the Knights that we
played at the jazz Fest, we did a night show
at the club here a snug Harbor and John Baptiste
was that after entertainment when he was a young kid.
Man came up before behind her, Herbie Hancock. So when
I saw him doing all this stuff he's been doing

(01:51:23):
in New York and we just recently, not too long
before the pandemic did a show together at Carnegie Hall, Man,
and we texted back and forth. You know the nominations.

Speaker 5 (01:51:33):
Can I just say too, because I just realized in
this conversation that meanwhile We've had three people who worked
with you on the on this show from New Orleans,
PJ Moore and of course Tank, of course John Baptiste.
But I want to defend us and say, the reason
that we waited so long to have you is because
in our minds we was coming to New Orleans and
we was going to have a real.

Speaker 4 (01:51:51):
Show with Terror.

Speaker 5 (01:51:53):
That is the only reason that it took us so
long to get down that.

Speaker 7 (01:51:57):
That's a great look, Tank, Tank. You know, we did
a song for one night Miami. I know, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:52:02):
It's awesome.

Speaker 7 (01:52:06):
And it's funny because it's one of those things where
you want to tell your students on him and all.
That woman came in here and did two takes and
it was done.

Speaker 2 (01:52:13):
Yeah right, that.

Speaker 4 (01:52:14):
Sound right that girl? And PJ big up to him.

Speaker 7 (01:52:16):
Too, Oh, PJ too. He was another man. I remember
the first time I met him, he told me he
was a musician. He was a young kid. I must
have been about twenty and twenty one years old, and
I'm like, yeah, okay, man. And then for some reason
he sent me something this stuff and I went, wow,
what And then I lost track of him, you know
what I mean. And then when I found track of
him again. He was like PJ. I was like, Okay,

(01:52:40):
that's bound to happen, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:52:42):
Sure.

Speaker 7 (01:52:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:52:45):
Oh man, we have to ask like last quot, last
last question man, the when the levees broke.

Speaker 2 (01:52:52):
Oh oh damn, I totally.

Speaker 6 (01:52:54):
Forgot yeah, man, like just to talk about that experience,
just you know, the just the emotional joy of scoring that.

Speaker 7 (01:53:01):
Well, you know the wild part about that, man. You know,
going through that period of in our history, bro was
a traumatic thing, you know, because there was something you
never thought, whatever really happened in this country, and then
the way it went down, the way we were talked
about is being refugees. It was so disrespectful to look
on the television and see people that look like people

(01:53:21):
in my family and they were being called such things.
You know. It was like you couldn't You wanted to scream,
but there was no place to go, you know what
I'm saying. So we were in the listen. I had
to go to la because I had an apartment there.
Because we couldn't come back to the warts. I couldn't
find my mom for two weeks when I finally found

(01:53:44):
When I finally found my mom and said mom been
calling you for two weeks. I said, I heard that
thing buzzing in my purse. We were doing the music
to Spike lee movie Inside Man. Yeah, and normally he'd

(01:54:04):
fly me to New York, but he said, no, man,
you stay with your family in l A. And I'm
coming to you. And when he came to my apartment,
he made he walked in the door. The first thing
he said was he didn't even say hi. He said, Man,
I'm doing a documentary on those levees and I'm gonna
give those people a chance to tell their story. And
you know, my respect for him went through the roof
right at that moment, you know. And that's the most

(01:54:25):
comprehensive thing I've ever seen done on all the cultures
of New Orleans, you know. And to to watch it,
you know, we were actually recording and music the Inside Man.

Speaker 1 (01:54:36):
That's how he.

Speaker 7 (01:54:36):
Found out that my mom hadn't gone in the house.
Ship you know, I was out there. Yeah, I come
back in for a playback. And then Spike goes, we're
gonna feel mel your mom going in the house. I'm like,
what you know? And my mom said, well, people need
to see what we're going to you know what I mean.
And that was one of the reference things to do
with my mom because you know, I'd went to the

(01:54:58):
house the night before. I already knew what was up,
what was about to go down, And when she said,
I hope my house is fine, it just broke, you know,
breaks you up. She had a friend of hers who
had come home, got out his car, saw his house,
and had a heart attack and died right in front
of the house.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
Shit, you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:55:18):
So there were a lot of stories like that that
were going on. So when it came time to make
the record, man, you know, I kept wondering if I
was sounding angry because I was pissed. You know, I
was just pissed. I kept being pissed. I'm like, you know,
this is America. This shit shouldn't happen. Who designed those levees.
If it was one of us, we'd be in jail,

(01:55:38):
you know what I mean. It's just that's simple. You know,
it's faulty design. And people lost their lives because of
when people lost their homes because of it. So I
kept trying to say to myself, don't sound angry, don't
sound angry. But all of those stories, all of those
arrangements I kind of based off of stories that happened,
you know, during that period. And one of the blessed

(01:55:59):
things about it is that once we did it and
recorded it, you know, and released it, man, this one
guy came to one of our shoulder and he said, Man,
he said, I lost my best friend in Katrina. And
he said, I wasn't wasn't able to mourn. And he said,
and then, you know, they were having a memorial for him,

(01:56:20):
like a year afterwards, and he said, I put your
album on and as I was listening to it, he said,
as I was pulling up to the church funeral, dirt
started to play and he said, I just lost it.
And he said that was the first time he could
ever moan the lost more one the loss of the friend.

(01:56:42):
So you know, when you hear stories like that, you know,
you feel like that's why you create music, to help
people like deal with stuff, you know. And and one
of the things we kept saying with that album. One
of the things we said with the breathless stuff, with
the gun violence, you know, it's like, let the music
absorb you, Let the music absorb your frustration and pain.

(01:57:03):
Strategic about how we move forward, you know, and creating
a more equitable life for us in this country.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
That's real. Thank you for sharing that, man, Thank for
sharing that. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:57:15):
Thank you on behalf of on pay Bill Sugar Steve
and Fan Tikolo and like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:57:22):
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Flowers, flowers, flowers, flowers.

Speaker 1 (01:57:25):
Thank you for all you do man.

Speaker 6 (01:57:26):
Your music, like all your music, it definitely becomes just
like a whole other character in all the movies that
you do.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
And I watch them just as much for your music
as I do movies. Like for real, that is.

Speaker 4 (01:57:41):
That is listening truth.

Speaker 3 (01:57:43):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:57:43):
Yeah, yes, absolutely, I love what you guys do. Man,
So keep it up, man.

Speaker 1 (01:57:48):
Thank you all right, this quest love.

Speaker 2 (01:57:51):
Then we'll see on the next ground round of Supreme.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:57:59):
Yoh what's up? Sponte.

Speaker 6 (01:58:00):
Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at
QLs and let us know what you think.

Speaker 1 (01:58:05):
You know it should be next to sit down with us.

Speaker 6 (01:58:06):
Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, Ali Peace.

Speaker 1 (01:58:18):
How Much Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (01:58:23):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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