July 13, 2026 • 51 mins
Oscar and Emmy winner Riz Ahmed sits down with Questlove for a personal conversation that spans music, art, identity, and purpose. Bonding over a lifelong love of music (especially Hip-Hop), the two reflect on the moments that have defined their careers. Riz also shares the inspiration behind recent projects, including the new series Bait and his bold interpretation of Hamlet. This episode captures an authentic exchange between two boundary-pushing artists whose stories stretch across the Atlantic.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeart Radio. All right,
ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Quest Loft Show.
I'm here at iHeart Studios, LA today. My guests maybe
one thousand miles away, but he's right up here on
(00:21):
your screen. An Oscar, an Emmy winner who's left to
mark on film and TV. Be it the Night of
Sounds of Metal, the Long Goodbye. You already know the range.
And this artist is using his talents and to raise
discussion and awareness. And right now he's bringing Hamlet back
to theaters, starring in and producing a new Amazon series Bait,
(00:46):
and beyond all that, he's a musician. Two awesome MC.
We're going to get into it. So many people tell
me how amazing it is to talk to him, and
I got to see for myself. So please welcome Rizama
to the Quest Love Show. How are you doing, brother?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What's up doing well? Man? It's an honor to be
talking to you.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Man.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, thank you for the kind intro.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Thank you, thank you. Where you talking to me from?
Right now?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I'm in New York. I'm here doing press for.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Hablet okay, and I know that's a taxing thing, so
I appreciate you taking the time to do this for us.
My first question to you is what is the early
snapshot you have of yourself as a kid as far
as your memories are concerned.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Now, one of the most prominent memories I would have
I was a few, you know. One of them is
like playing cricket and basketball in my driveway with my
big brother and spending the whole summers doing that. But
another thing I used to do on my own the
whole time is act out movies, fake movies. So I
would like kind of decide on like a genre, like
this is a crazy violent like action movie, or this
(01:55):
is like a Home Alone had just come out, so
I was like, this is like a kid comedy or whatever,
and just like act out these elaborate entire stories from
start to finish. I used to make a note of it.
I used to I used to name the film, give
it a title and a rating. If there was you
PG parental guidance to twelve or eighteen. And I had
this teenage mutant Ninja Tell's like book notepad with all
(02:20):
the list of all these, My favorite, the banger that
I was most proud of was Black Dragon. There was
a Motorcycle Kung Fu Trilogy. And this is like from
when I was young man. I just always used to
do that when I was like into like Bruce Lee
films and then Jackie Chan. So yeah, I used to
do that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Wait, did you film these or you just imagine them
that you were in it yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
No, no, this is much less impressive than you imagining.
I'd neither wrote these things down nor did I film them,
just run around and acting out the entire story and
playing all the different characters of these weird movies. The
only evidence of them left behind is somewhere in that
the turtle's note pad. It says black Dragon one, Black
(03:03):
Dragon two, Black Dragon three, eighteen R rated. Or you know,
it was just like this. I just was obsessed with it,
and I used to just make these, you know, action
explosion sound effects like that. Was My mom's nickname for me,
was Tush.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Tush, just because you were your own a fixed guy.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I was my sound guy. I was. Yeah, wrote
the theme tune.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Okay, Yeah. What was the vibe in your house growing up?
What did your parents do for a living. Were they
artistically inclined or they.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Weren't overtly artistic in a sense. But a lot of
my early memories with my mom would be sat down
in front of the TV watching VHS cassettes of Bollywood
films or of Pakistani TV that had been sent asscross
from Pakistan. My dad was a way a lot. He
was in shipping. My mom was a homemaker, and she
was a career for her sister, and she lost her
(03:57):
mom young, so she was kind of like the oldest
sibling holding a lot of different things together at the
same time without my dad around as much as he
would have liked to have been as well. He was
working on ships and stuff in different countries. And I
just remember like sitting in her lap watching these Pakistani
comedy sketch shows, soap operas, pop music videos, Bollywood films,
(04:19):
and the Bob Marley legend VHS tape with all the
music videos on there, like one of the earliest music videos.
I remember, the Buffalo Soldier, and yeah, it was just
it was so it was the TV and the music
and the film and the comedy and the drama. They
were all mixed together always, you know, on whatever VHS
(04:41):
cassette had just been sent over from Pakistan or whatever,
or someone had gone there and visited and brought it back.
That was like a happy place. You know, that was
a happy place for my mom, and you know, me
and her are home. You know, my older siblings were
at school, so it was kind of present in the house,
even though they weren't performers themselves. But you know, it's
(05:01):
interesting I say that, like sometimes there's this trope that
kind of like immigrant families are like often not artistically
inclined or kind of dissuade the kids from doing that
because it's unstable or whatever. But culture takes many forms,
and like we're steeped in culture obviously, from our food
to the fashion, to the clothes, the music, to the
religious songs to the you know, so like culture was
(05:24):
in the house. We brought so much culture with us
as an immant family, even if it wasn't kind of
turned into our over way.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
What was the cool kid item that you always wanted
in your household that you never got to have?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Do you remember Mask Mask? Ask the movie Mask Mask. Yeah,
it was like it was like an animated non not
Jim Carrey. There was an animated there was an animated
action kind of cartoon.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Called Mask Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It was like central you know that kind of thing,
and it was one of them toys. It was. It
was just like it was like a car that fired
plastic discs or whatever. You know. I just loved it.
It was kind of like a night Rider rip off. Really, okay,
I wanted that or the RoboCop truck. I never got
the RoboCop truck. Never got that. I've probably watched a
lot of violent films too young to be honest, if
(06:21):
I think about it. I remember my uncle was just
showing me Nightmare on Elm Street when I was like
six years old, and I'm watching like like RoboCop like
too young, you know, and RoboCop too, and so I
just wanted the RoboCop toys, but I never got them.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
You want to know something now, that Nightmare on Elm
Street just had its fortieth anniversary, like maybe a year
or two ago. I went to watch it for the
very first time in a movie theater, and I'm so
shocked because I don't know if this is general knowledge.
I've already seen those things because I thought, like, I
(06:56):
don't like bludgeon films or anything. Nightmare on Elm Street
you literally see no act of violence. Like I didn't
realize that at no point does he ever stab someone
or whatever, Like he'll grab someone from behind a curtain,
you'll hear screaming or whatever. But I just realized that
the genius of that whole thing is that all the
(07:17):
violence we think happens is inside our heads, Like besides
the suspense music. I never knew that, at least for
the first one. I've not watched the other one, so
you know, as far as I know, he was on
a stab of mission. But wow, I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, And I always remember just being so terrified of it.
This day, I can't watch horror movies. It was like, yeah,
my uncles would like be renting these movies and babysitters
and they were on Elm Street on one after another.
But I'm still kind of like remembering some crazy like images.
But you're right, it was more like images and the
imagination and the sound and the suspense. It wasn't like
(07:54):
people having their heads culled.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Right, even the Johnny Depp see with the blood, like
it's just blood splattering everywhere, but at no point does
he get stabbed. And halfway through the film, I was like, Yo,
this is no violence.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We're disappointed by that. Or is it like what did
you think? It's just kind of like a masterclass.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
When I left, I was just jaw drop that, like, wow,
there's no And I only noticed this only because Tarantino.
I told him a story about you know, verse of
our dogs or whatever, and he's like, no, correction, you
never see the ear getting sliced off. And he's like,
I turned the camera away. You hear it, but you
never see it. And I was like, oh, I never
(08:34):
knew that, but yeah, but still, yeah, that's even scarier
to me. Who's the one person in your life that
keeps you in check no matter what that grounds you?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I mean I feel like most of my family do that,
you know. I mean it's good and important to have
people in your life do not give two ships about
your quote unquote success, right, you know, who were just
like there to like have the same relationship with you
before you started doing you know, any anything or any
(09:13):
note and and kind of anchor you in that, you know.
I remember when we won an Oscar for Best Short Film.
I remember my cousin's group chat. Someone was like, yo,
you know, congratulations Risman PI four winning and one of
my cousins was just like really, not up on that
kind of stuff. Was like, okay, cool, is that like
(09:33):
a big deal?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Is that like when I won Regional Employee of the Month.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
They know what.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Direction this actually wasn't when I Want? Is when I
got nominated for Sound of Metal? And I said, is
that like when I got when I Want Regional Employee
of the Month. And then just before I could respond,
another cousin came in and said, now it's different because
you actually won that. You need people to take you
(10:05):
in that way and keep you know, it's important, and
you know, I don't want to be surrounded by like
sickophants and like transactional relationships. I'm kind of most of
my friends kind of kind of pre date any of
that or any of this.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So right, Yeah, I've visited or at least performed at
the Oxford campus twice, but I've always wanted to get
a different perspective on it. So, as a person of color,
what was the reality of being in an environment such
as Oxford?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I felt like a fish out of water? Really yeah,
on a cultural point of view, but also on a
class point of view, because actually you have different people
of color there from like different countries, like you got
the kids of princes and kings and dignitaries and the
zero point zero zero one percent of Bakistan or Nigeria
or whatever. They're there as well. But in terms of
like Black British Pakistani British like particularly that in that time,
(11:04):
it's like twenty something, you know, twenty years ago, twenty
five years ago. I definitely felt like an outsider, and
in many ways it was a great kind of lesson
for me, for like a training ground for going into
the film industry, where like, okay, your difference is also
something that can no know that can empower you. I
(11:24):
remember basically at Oxford I had been kind of like
m seeing at raves and on pirate radio stations and
stuff in London, and the whole kind of grime scene
was just exploding. Dizney Rascal was coming up, BBC Radio
had just launched music station Radio one Extra, and it
was just whole. There was just all this energy around,
this kind of boom of UK rap and UK sound
(11:46):
system culture going mainstream, and I was I felt missing
out on it. So I said, you know what, that
doesn't exist in Oxford. Let me let me try and
stop some of that. And so I started a club
night there was like hip pop and drum and bass,
and every week I was there on State, you know,
hosting and emceeing of a drum and bass and stuff
and got to like hone my craft. And it was
a kind of reminder in a way that if you
(12:06):
feel like you don't belong in a place, you can
kind of like try and I don't know, stretch, stretch
the parameters of that environment, you know, to make space
for you and others like you that actually that space
might be hungry for that. It might just you to
stick around in it rather than just be like, nah,
I don't belong here and leaving. So it was. It
(12:28):
was I think it was a gift and a curse
in many ways. It was. It was lonely at times,
it was challenging. It was a lot of friction around
like just be existing there, I felt. But it also
drove me to kind of like kind of, yeah, create
space for myself and people like me, And in many
ways I kind of continue trying to do that. In
the film business, what.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Was the best album that you purchased yourself?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I remember purchasing cassettes of singles, okay, more than albums.
Does that count? Do you definitely want an album? No?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
No, what's your own money? Like, what's what's the first
single you purchased? Would you?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I remember? Was it Jade Don't walk Away?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah? Of course, yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And then also it was actually the first album might
have been a Prince album. It was Diamonds and Pearls?
Was that an album? Was it a single?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Ninety one? Diamonds and Pearls the album?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I think it might have been that, And to be honest,
I think I just it was like I was in
Woolworths or whatever and it was just like on sale
and you don't. I was like it was cool, But
Jade was like intentional. I bought the cassette. I accidentally
put myself onto Prince. It was just like the in
the like bargain bucket or whatever. But that and I
(14:05):
remember I had I had that, I very much like
kind of loved, but they would been gifted to me.
And that was Michael Jackson. That was Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Bad Okay, that was.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The one that I was just like kept, but I
didn't I didn't buy that amount of money?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah I got it?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Remember what yours was?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I mean, look for years I've lied to the press
and said, like, it was a Jackson five record, but
my first Gifted Records. Yeah, my mind was a Neils.
I liked Neil Saidaka's bad Blood because I like the
way that the logo looked spinning on the forty five.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I meet my diamonds and just thought that's cool. I mean,
I like the colors, dude.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
For me, I'll say that the first ten years of
record collecting, like was just based on if I like
the way that the print of the logo looked on
the turntable, and thus I didn't like Capitol Records. So
I was not into the Beatles until actually until I
moved to London. Then I got into the Beatles.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
But yeah, like, wow, we're just buying books.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
No no, no, no, I group. Yeah, well, yeah, I judge.
I judge books based on exactly. It's funny to say
that because one of my favorite films, Ega Wright's Showing
of the Dead is a brilliant Prince joke where I
guess they're trying to fight off zombies and they ran
(15:41):
out of weapon, so now they have to use records,
and they're going through the entire alphabet and they get
to the letter P and the guy's like, I can't
waste my Prints records, And then even as their lives
are on the line, they're like judging Prints albums, like, well,
this album was shited, so let's use the Batman album
and like so.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Hearing oh the Batman. The Batman Album was at a
special place in my heart because I was a kid
when that came out. What do you feel about that album?
I loved it, man, you know, it's so weird and cooler,
like had this weird, like acid kind of situation going
on in it. And I just remember the hype around
that Batman film coming out as a kid, and you
(16:23):
just feel the biggest deal ever that you know. It
just it was special to me at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
As a long like long time Prince fans kind of
say that that's the beginning of the end, But I
see that as a necessary album for him to have
a longer career, like Purple Rain sustained him for the eighties,
but then he needed another platform album to sustain him
for another decade. So from a term of effectiveness, I'll
(16:55):
let it go. But as as a knowing what Prince
is capable of, and as Cannon, we were kind of
indifferent on it at the time, but I loved it
only because the day after I graduated high school, my
dad let me he My dad was a world famous
like music being shopper, so basically that was like the
(17:18):
last time he let me just go ape ape shit
inside of a record store and buy whatever I wanted
because I graduated at high school and so that album
came out that day. So I still have like fond
memories of that album, even though it's not in my
top five Prince albums of all time, but you know,
it just it just.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Had a special place in my heart because the memories.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
You know, I can see that, what was the very
first live show that you attended?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Wow, that's a good you know. I don't know if
it was like the very first one I attended, but
it was. I mean the earliest ones I attended would
have been like some Pakistani pop kind of bands, and
like Bollywood, there were a lot of like touring Bollywood shows.
So I grew up in Wembley right and so close
(18:07):
to the arena and stuff like that, and so back
in those days, how a lot of the Bollywood stars
would make money is they would go on world towards
where they would perform the songs from the hits, the
hit songs from the hit films, right, so you'd acts
like Saman Khan whatever, these guys would come to London
and like do song and dance kind of things. And
(18:27):
I remember those for sure, and going to like Pakistani
pop things like Vital Signs and Jannon and these kind
of these kind of bands, you know, like nineties like
pop and rock bands from Pakistan that would come and
play like Wembley Conference Center or whatever, like you know,
the whole community would show up. It was like it
was a vibe. But really the first thing I thought,
(18:50):
so I saw those technically before, but the answer came
to my mind. One of the most impactful was I
think the ten year anniversary of Ninja Tune Records.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Okay, yeah Tune yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think it was like a ten anniversary or something
of that. And I went to that and Kid Kowala
was playing ah yeah, and I bumped into Talvin sing
over there, and Talvin Singh, who's like, you know, incredible
like Doubler electronic fusion artists from you know, big part
of that South Asian nineties kind of wave of music.
(19:25):
Him and It and Sonia and people like that Asian
Dub Foundation. I remember there was a cipher of teenagers
that we were like freestyling on the staircase, right, and
I remember Talvin sing like we stood there watching really
saw me, and he like yeah, and he like complimented me.
And I remember just feeling so gashed and I'm just
(19:48):
so encouraged. Like that sustained me for five years.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That was like Talvin Singh thought I was doing something,
you know, and he was like a cool guy in
the underground of that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Have you ever still go back and seen him since or.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You know, we connected once like many many years later,
but not not really not particularly. Yeah, I don't know
if he's listening, you know, shout out Talvin Singh's like
a real innovator there.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
You go, shout out to Talvim Singh, who are your
north star? Well, I would ask for five who are
your five north star mcs?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's just ems well I meant for you Yeah, yeah, okay,
just as.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
A lyricist, like who are your north Stars?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I feel like it's changed a lot. I feel like
before it was just all about kind of lyricism, and
you know, you know, as a teenager, it was just
all about kind of common and most entirely quality and
you know, the whole raucous kind of camp and all
of those guys.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Right And to this.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Day, I think Most Death is up there for me.
But I think it's changed now because it's more about
the range and the versatility of these artists and they're
kind of big bench that's really interesting to me now.
So whereas I would never have said this before, I
think now one of them is probably Mike Skinner from
the Streets.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The Streets, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, I would say Mike Skinner is up there. I
would say m i A is up there. You know,
I'm interested more now more than ever the genre bending.
I guess you could call them mcs who are kind
of like bending the form to their style. But I'd
still say Most Death. I mean, you know, honestly, I'm
a I'm just a huge, huge Kendrick fan again because
(21:36):
of the range of what he does and how he
bends as well. And I think I know someone who
I just really really love and rate that's like kind
of more contemporary to right now is Jay huss.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
In the UK.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So yeah, that's that's not necessarily my all time top five,
but off the top of my head, I mean I
think those a some mcs just always kind of think
they're just themselves, do you know what I mean? I
think that's the thing that I rate more than anything
now is someone who sounds like no one else, someone
who's like that could only be averse by them. You know.
It's just immediately distinctive in that way, in the way
(22:14):
that ODB was. I think, more than anything, I'm inspired
by people who are unapologetically themselves and doing something different,
Whereas before it was all about just lyricism and I
was skilling them junkie, right, yeah, just just just like
technical craft, you know what I mean, That's what I
was a big junkie. I think it's a different skill
(22:35):
to be like purely yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yourself, Like, yeah, I feel for you.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
What was Can I just pause? Was going to say,
I'm talking to quest Love. I can't move on from
that question without asking you the same question me, I
really you got an all time top five.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Well you just reminded me. I totally forgot when like
my period in London was between like ninety three and
I think we gave up our flat ninety seven ninety
eight in kennish Town, and but coming back I definitely remembered.
I think we did some shows with the streets. You
(23:17):
reminded me how much I used to listen to his
first record, his first few records. I like weird EMCs,
you know, like I dig and I'll chance, yeah, of course,
like I know that I have a world class athlete
in my own band, which I think because Tarika is
so technically proficient as an MC, I'll tend to champion
(23:41):
those that might not ever wind up on anyone's like
top ten list, even though I think, you know, I
still early cool Keith Edon Cool, Keith Paul Barman, Pastuus
of De La Soul, you know, of course, like Doom,
like just anyone that's like super weird like that too
(24:04):
out into Right now, I'm going through like my Doom
phase again, so I'll go through stages.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
But you know what's really interesting about Doom is that
he's right in the middle of that ven diagram of
weird m season like technical masters that like just really
headsy lyrically oriented fans would always also turn to.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's interesting, you know, I can't move on without talking
about Black dought for a minute because I think in
that period when I was most just like purely listening
to rap, I think, you know, most it would have
been Black Dot. And I actually got to tell you
that that Things for the Part album was just a
life changing album for me. Man. It was life changing
on so many levels in particular, like, yeah, just to
(24:45):
find a certain period of time in my life. And
I tell you something that I was just really gassed off,
and so many people in London were so gassed off.
Is I'm sure you heard this. The drum and bassed
lick at the end, the drum and bass break at
the end, Yeah, yeah, worry about me, you know what
I mean? Yeah, And so at the end when it
(25:06):
just drops and drummer and it only does it for
like twenty seconds or whatever. But I just felt, I
don't know, you know, that was that was like mid nineties, right,
so it's like the heyday of jungle and drummer bass.
I'm going to this and it just brought in together
in a way that was just I don't know, man,
it just felt like I felt seen. I feel like
it made that track even more beloved in the UK
(25:27):
that it just went into that double time drummer based
thing at the end of that track. But yeah, I
mean that's that's probably one of the first That and
I think the Mystery of chess Boxing were the first
two things that I like learned off by heart, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, you know my I've told the story before of
you know, I was. I was fortunate enough to kind
of be there at the very beginning of when like
jungleists and drum and bass were like starting to be
a thing, and when we decided to move to London
for real, for real. The first thing we did was
(26:00):
we went to a nightclub and they started playing Anita
Baker and we were like laughing at London, like, oh
my god, why are they listening to like slow jams?
Why are they playing sweet Love in the in the
in the nightclub? And then when that hook came up, Yo,
I was scared for my like, we I wish did
(26:22):
you guys.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Meet to London? Why did you meet to London? You
guys just wanted to change up, taking some new influences.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
You know, it's weird. Okay. So we had spent two
years in this massive bidding war. We got the record
deal of our dreams and then the album was finished,
and then we realized that the label not only did
the label who just started a black division we were
on Geffen Records, that they weren't prepared to really promote us.
(26:51):
But then on top of that, you know, ninety three
was kind of like a shifting year for creativity and
black music, of which we got by because suddenly it
was a novelty being a band, like we were one
of that when we got first got signed, I think
seven black bands still had a record deal, whereas you
(27:12):
know in the seventies there were thousands, you know what
I mean. So we just decided the very last minute,
we have to do what Jimmy Hendrix did. So the
second we finished our album, we met Giles Peterson. We
booked a week at the Jazz Cafe, and then with
the money we made from that, we just got a
(27:32):
flat in Kennish Town and just never came back home.
We decided to make London our hub, and then we
just worked Europe literally for four years, and eventually the
label was like, all right, you guys got to come
back home and like be for real. So for things
fall apart. We finally came back to America, but for
(27:54):
the most part, Like I don't think we would have
made a dent had we just relied on on whatever
buzz we were going to get America, Like we felt
we had to go to London to the world and
then come back home newly, newly improved, and you.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Know, asol, I love that. I love that. Yeah, And
it's so it's so kind of amazing to see more
of that cross pollination between you know, music coming out
of London in the UK and the US and seeing
the moment that the UK rappers also having as well
over there just out of interest, would you say you
got me? Is still like the most played and like beloved.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, that's that's our most popular And I literally did it.
Like when we left London and you know, came back
home to start recording, I knew that, Like the last
project I worked on that was like London Base, I
did something with Ronnie Size, and you know, I was
just like, yo, man, I want to I want to
(28:57):
do something that you know, it gives us a a
tip of the hat or not to where we came from.
Like I thought Jungle was going to be like the
biggest thing ever. So I was just like, I want
to come out the gate before like America catches on
and America didn't. However, I do believe now that we're
(29:19):
flirting with like Jersey house, especially where like where lil
Uzi Verd is going and like these artists that are
using Jersey House music and the speed of it. I
think maybe now we might be ready for it, because
at least where we are as far as where the
country is, even though we're trying to remain zen and
(29:41):
calm through this ordeal that we're going through. I almost
feel as though the soundtrack to junglest is like this
is the time to unleash it, like that feeling of
urgency in the air. So yeah, man, I just wanted
to do it just as a tip of the hat
to the place where we came.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
From a ran that deep. I thought maybe you guys
were just playing around with different drum breaks, but it's
so beautiful to know that it came from being steeped
in that and around that.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I mean, jungle music is like, you know, a very particular,
very UK thing, and I think it caught on a
lot more in Canada, Toronto in particular, because the kind
of Caribbean kind of connection. It's obviously, so much of
UK black music comes out of that connection to like
dance or and Caribbean music and how that blends with
like electronic music. But but of course it's always been
(30:31):
that bridge. Like if you think of garage, garage came
out of like what it's called garage because the Paradise garage, right,
and it was like US H and G as they
see H and G was house and garage that was
American stuff and your two step carriage which is called
UK garage, right, and then that was just you know,
slightly different. But to this day, I would say that Gabriel,
(30:52):
that the Roy Davis Junior pevn ever Itt sung is
at least for my generation, a lot of people's number
one track, you know, of all time. That's the kind
of redemption song or whatever of garage heads. Do you
know what I mean? Is it's a US track, is
Roy David Junior and Peven Ever So, yeah, I'm glad
to see that kind of like that dance floor kind
(31:13):
of cross put pollination more.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It's funny you mentioned him because one of my favorite
songs of his that I spend there's a jazzy tune
that he did call you get Me, which it's more
of a two step uh production. But yeah, that's that's
a song that I think has fallen under people's radar,
(31:36):
and I feel as though that song is waiting to
be discovered.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So is this a Roy Davis Junior's track or.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah you got Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, he's kind of like he's just he's so incredible
and so talented and and from what I understand, it's like,
you know that there was like a whole crazy backstory
around that track, and yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Got one day and find out about it. I finally
connected with him, like I think like two or three
years ago, finally got to meet him and give him
his his flowers. I always wanted to know, So, what
(32:21):
is the one lesson in life that you had to
learn the hard way?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
So many man, but I think I think, like I'm
trying to find a way of saying is that doesn't
sound super basic, but I'm gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Just come with it.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
It's about kind of like not of like just just
just not the power of not performing. And what I
mean by that is I grew up code switching a lot,
you know, I grew up in a certain kind of
word that was not privilege, but you know, it wasn't
like crazy intense or violent or anything which was not privileged.
(33:05):
And I've got a government scholarship to a private school.
So there was like this class code switching that came
from an immigrant Pakistani background and household. But I was
in Britain and there was that code switching, and it
was the nineties of it said, and it was like,
you know, this explosion of South Asian British culture and
you know, garage and drum and base, and there was that,
(33:25):
and I had all these different identities and I feel
like for so much in my life I had been
code switching, so much so that when I was starting
out both as a professional actor and MC, I was
really eager to keep those two things different, just kind
of some kind of just like instinctive compartmentalizing I would do.
And I think I feel like I'm almost making up
for lost time now of just really bringing together those
(33:49):
supposedly contradictory parts of myself in the things that I'm
making and bringing together the music with the film, bringing
together the just those unapologic sides that I would sometimes
instinctively like edit right. And it sounds like a kind
of pretty basic lesson to learn. But even when I
thought I was being unapologetically myself, I was still kind
of like shifting gears instinctively, you know. And I want
(34:11):
to kind of like come into the room with all
of my mess and just be like, yeah, this is
my mess, this is it is all of it. And
I think that's something that has just helped me feel
more calm and in touch with who I am, you know. Yeah,
so like with a show like Bait that we made,
(34:33):
you know, bringing a soundtrack together around that and having
tracks on them myself and bringing to my favorite artists
from around the world into that, or with the Long
good Bye the short film, you know, just kind of
blending almost like soliloquies and spoken word with like that
action thriller kind of film language and just trying to
(34:56):
kind of put it all in one part. And I
think that's what I like, you know, I have that
kind of eclictic taste, and I have those different sizes
of myself and I want to kind of express it
all and not kind of whole different parts of myself back.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, so you have to build your own platform so
that you can express all the facets of yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Thank you very succinctly put yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, it's understandable. You once said that you'd rather be
broke than to be type cast. Now looking back, what
was the hardest what was the hardest know you had
ever had to say? And you know, I know how
integrity and personal code is to manage in an industry
(35:41):
in which, you know, minorities are constantly having to jump
hurdles and codes, which but like for you, what was
one of the knows that you had to give that
would have been like either lucrative for you or.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I mean, I I guess I'm just wondering if I
should say it, But like there's a there's you know,
I mean, I don't want to say.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh yeah, you don't just say the movie or whatever.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I mean, yeah, I mean, when I came off the
back of the Night Of, I offered a big lead
role in a big TV series on net Please, playing
a lead roles like an actually kind of thriller thing,
And it went on to be a huge, huge, huge hit,
and it was very successful, and you know, I think
it probably would have done a lot for me kind
(36:33):
of straight off the Night Of into something like that,
And and I couldn't do It wasn't even so much
about the role that I was playing in terms of
type casting. It was definitely for me kind of like
would have been a great look. It was just the
basic storyline was was about terrorism, and it was very stereotypical,
and it's portrayal of Muslim characters. And even if I
(36:54):
would get to transcend that stereotype and I would get
to play that, you know, just kind of like lead
guy role and be unshackled by that, I saw what
it was doing to everyone else around me and the story,
and it was I just do it, And sometimes I
kind of look back it was like, man, that would
have you know, that would have been a great look.
(37:15):
But if you at the overall of my journey, I'm
very pleased that I didn't do it because to me,
like having a career is not an end in itself,
Like telling stories, it's kind of not an end in itself.
It's about what you're saying with it. It's about how
you're trying to push culture and try and challenge people,
challenge yourself, you know, and like falling back on some
(37:37):
of the lazy narratives for me is like that's the
opposite of what I want to be doing with my time?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Are you given agency to have a conversation with the
screenwriter or the director or the producer that, look, I'd
like to adjust some things in this character or given
more of a soul.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Course I've done that loads, But I mean, I just like,
sometimes it's baked into the story. You're not going to
change a thing, Like do you know what I mean?
If it's that is it's not like icing on the cake.
It is the cake. Sometimes it was that okay.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So Baita is a series that draws some parallels frankly
that you know that we're living in right now as
far as like you know, xenophobia, anti immigration views. But
when when did the idea start to crystallize as far
as you developing this.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Well, crystallized quite late on. But I've been scribbling down
kind of ideas and anecdotes for about since about twenty fourteen.
Obviously what started happening started to become more well known
in America, and kind of there was this widening gap
between my public and private self. You know, it's I
don't know. The same week that it got announced I
(38:52):
was in Star Wars was the same week I got
banned from my local Tesco supermarket for suspected shoplifting just
because I was like wearing bizarre clothes. My washing machine
had broken. I was dragging around a massive laundry bag
full of dirty clothes. They thought, like, who is this guy?
Is he like unhoused, like you know whatever. It was.
The whole thing was just it was just like you know,
(39:12):
people think as soon as people think you're going to
be on a yacht with hand solo, but it's like
you still go to your laundry washing me see still breaks.
It's still human world. Yeah, And so that gap between
your public and private self started creating more stressful and
kind of slightly hilarious situations, and I just kept starting
making a note of them. And I knew I wanted
to make something about that. And someone once told me
(39:35):
that gap between your public and private self is how
much shame you carry, right, And I knew I wanted
to make a kind of suppersive comedy within that playground
of shame, and and and so I started drawing from
all these very very specific and personal things, and so
many things in the show. I mean, I remember in
(39:58):
the end of You doing My Kennich Town at the
end of episode one. My character has a panic attack
at Kenish Town Forum. Okay, that that happened to me
when I was booed off stage supporting Wu Tang clan.
What yeah, yeah, Wu Tang were like two and a
half hours late. So when someone finally came out on stage,
you know, I came out and I was like, yeah,
that's not method.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Man, oh you got Oh no, that's unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, but I stayed. I stayed the course and just
did an a cappella and I knew there would be
kind of a more lyric our in the crowd, and
you know, the booze turned to cheers. Short set I've
ever done two minutes, turned the booze around some cheers.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
And got out of it.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
That was me.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, too many, thank you. And and so there's so
many things like you know, my character gets jumped as
a kid in a park in Wembley. That was the
park behind my parents' house. You know, it's a sweet
shot they do to get sweets on Eve. We'd go
there like it's even being approached by m I five
to spy for them. That's happened to me like three
times since I've becoming actor.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
I was going to ask you, as you mentioned that,
have you ever unfortunately had to name drop who you
are in terms of getting out of a situation that
if you weren't who you were, it would have gone downhill?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
This is what I'm talking about is the opposite. They
approached me because I was an actor that was increasingly
well known. When when the security services were approaching me,
they were like, you're an actor with a profile almost
can you can you inspire for us? Can like? Can
we talk to you? Can you help us with messages? So?
And I just kind of shut the door to that,
you know, But that's why I's depicted in the show. Right,
(41:39):
let's happened to you several times. But what in terms
of name dropping who I am? Now, it wasn't that,
But I had a weird thing happened actually once at
the airport in America. Was in Canada, Canadian border.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Next thing he threw, Yes, they're the most intense he
throw in Canada.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Canada is intense, and MYAMMI is intense. Miami with the
Cuban staff there who are like super like you know, Patriot,
like there's a whole thing there.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, that's ass backwards.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I went to this thing while I was getting pulled
aside in Canada or something, and they will keep you
there for a long time. And this guy called me
up and he goes. Finally, after the age is waiting
and being rude, he goes and usually talk to someone.
And I took the phone from him and it was
a woman and she goes, can I tell you at
home we have a light sabered pizza cutter.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
What. I was like, okay, And he took the phone
back and he goes to my wife and I was
like okay, and he starts nodding and filling in the paperworkers. Okay,
now you've done that and performed for me in some
way like you can bounce. And then I go with
your wife, yeah, he goes, yeah, he goes, she's over there,
and he points down the desk and like five kiosks
down it's his wife is also a border control person
(42:58):
of the desk, didn't me. I was like, this is
so surreal. So it probably did help it go me
out in some situations. And I didn't get stopped as
much off that. But it was like a decade where
coming to the US was like three and a half hours.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
You know, I apologize it, trust me. It got different
once I turned forty five and suddenly people my age
were the border patrol people. But even then I knew
I had to look like questlove. So I had to
wear a lego heart and have my afro pick out
and you know.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And yeah before your public self. Yeah, it's guess what
bait is about. Really, it's about that, you know, Yeah,
trying to see what people expect you to be.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
You made this for me wearing like a so let
me ask. So, Shakespeare has been a passion of yours
since your teens, and this year you're in Hamlet. So
what about the classics, especially for this one attracted you
to this role and in this particular interpretation of it? Like,
(44:06):
what was the journey that it took to get here?
Speaker 2 (44:10):
You know, it was a long journey, he said. Like
when I was a teenager, I felt like Shakespeare was
the exact thing that I was. Epitomized everything that I
was on the outside of. Right, it's like this stuffy
British establishment thing. And I had an amazing teacher, a
white Jewish guy from Wolverhampton who happened to speak fluent Punjabi.
(44:34):
He took me under his wing, he gave me the plane, said,
you feel like an outsider. Well, actually, sort of the
characters the heart of these plays. So this guy Hamlet,
you know, the most famous was Revered Shakespeare plays the
heart of all this stuffiness you feel like doesn't belong
to you. Check it out. He feels like you feel,
And like so many teenagers and so many people of
all ages around the world, like I saw what this
(44:55):
guy's feeling, and I think it's actually how we're lot
also feeling right now, which is like, is the world
going crazy? Or have I lost my mind? You know,
that's the central kind of thread in a way in Hamlet,
and that feeling is something I latched onto and I've
felt to different degrees throughout my life, and I think
we all feel that way right now, and so I
(45:15):
just really connected with it emotionally. I created connected with
the language, the rhythm, the flow, the percussion of it.
It reminded me of rap music in that way. But
also a thing that really kind of struck me was
that this quintessentially British play felt like this is the
brownest thing I've ever read. This is like growing up
in Wembley. This is about family due to honor, love
(45:40):
kind of being you know, who you can and can't marry,
being a family decision. You know, spirits in the afterlife
feeling like they're part of people's lived experience. It just
felt like very very relatable to me coming from an
immigrant community. You know a lot of these old classic
feel more relevant and more real almost setting some of
(46:02):
these kind of just now. So yeah, all of those
things kind of blew me away and it changed out
how I saw myself in relation to the culture, and
I thought I wanted to. I want to make a
film of Hamlet, Like when I was seventeen, I remember
thinking that. I was like, I want to, you know, yeah,
kind of blow it open and create a version that
(46:22):
like a lot of people can see themselves in.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Right now, What is your relationship with making music?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I just put out of track two days ago. It
was my first track in about four and a half
years with Cass is Dead. You know Cass, the UK rapper.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
I've heard, but not not overly familiar.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
It's amazing, man, you You've got to checking stuff out.
He's like a cult kind of figure.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Okay, UK.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
So yeah, we've got the Bait as a soundtrack, and
I've got a couple of tracks on there, so I
exec produced the soundtrack. Georgia Smith is doing the lead
song on it.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Ah damn sure you know, of course.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, it's a Bond themed TV show, right, so we
needed a Bond song. So Georgia is doing our Bond song.
It is a timeless, four blown Bond song.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
It's like nice, she's doing her shairly bassy thing.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
She's doing that full blown.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah nice.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
And then and so I just dropped this track with
cass is Dead. All we good. It's just dropped two
days ago. And that's also on the Bait soundtrack.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Okay, My second to last is how has fatherhood changed you?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
It's maybe a lot more tired.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Just look on your face right now, tell.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Me, you know see how he's changing broke Like I
mean it just you just have less time to like
fuck around with stuff that you can't be bother to do,
or you just start at the time, just you just
start stripped back to the essentials that what do you
really care about? Who do you really care about? It's
just that you know, and if you're going to kill
yourself make a TV show over like ten years or
(47:56):
a movie over fifteen years, you better really care about it.
So I'm proud to say, like these two things that
are at the same time, they're very different, but I'm
deeply passionate about what they have to say and putting
them out there in the world. And yeah, I hope
people can feel that when they experience it.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Well, my final question is food related though, what is
what is your local food heaven destination spot.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Local food heaven destination spot. Yes, I'm going to shout needus.
Grill Needs is a classic East London curry house and
it features heavily an episode four of Bait. It is
like every episode of Bait is like almost takes place
in the different genre. And episode four is like Richard
(48:42):
Lincolay a walk and talk, and it's a walk and
talk through immigrant East London rather than like touristic Paris, right,
And so it starts in Needs and it's in Needws
and it's just banging Beryanni and Helem and Nihari and
my mouth is watering even talking about it. But yeah,
sharing Needs, man, it's just one of my faves.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, I thank you for doing this, uh, I appreciate
your artistry. Man, and you know, hopefully we can have
a longer conversation about your because I have a billion
questions about sound of metal. But I really admire you
as everything that you've done in music and in film
and and your artistry.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Man, And thank you so much brother. Likewise, man, you
know your music and what you what you've created, it has
been a has inspired me for years and years man,
And what you're doing now is doing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
So thank you, Bro, appreciate it. Ris I met on
the Quest Love Show and we'll see you guys next Gogram,
Thank you. Quest Love Shows hosted by Me Mirror Questlove Thompson.
Executive producers are Sean g Brian Calhoun and Me. Produced
(49:58):
Brittany Benjamin Jacob Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown,
Edited by Alex Conroban. iHeart Video supported by Mark Canton, Logos,
graphics and animation by Nikol and Loewe. Additional support by
Lance Cordon. Special thanks to Kathy Brown. Special thanks to
(50:23):
Sugar Steve Mandeli. Please subscribe, rate, review, and share The
Quest Love Show wherever you stream your podcast, make sure
you follow us on socials that's at q LS. Check
out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes, including Quest Love
Supreme Shows, and our podcast archives. Quest Love Show is
(50:47):
a production of iHeart Radio
Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeart Radio. All right,
ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Quest Loft Show.
I'm here at iHeart Studios, LA today. My guests maybe
one thousand miles away, but he's right up here on
(00:21):
your screen. An Oscar, an Emmy winner who's left to
mark on film and TV. Be it the Night of
Sounds of Metal, the Long Goodbye. You already know the range.
And this artist is using his talents and to raise
discussion and awareness. And right now he's bringing Hamlet back
to theaters, starring in and producing a new Amazon series Bait,
(00:46):
and beyond all that, he's a musician. Two awesome MC.
We're going to get into it. So many people tell
me how amazing it is to talk to him, and
I got to see for myself. So please welcome Rizama
to the Quest Love Show. How are you doing, brother?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What's up doing well? Man? It's an honor to be
talking to you.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Man.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, thank you for the kind intro.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Thank you, thank you. Where you talking to me from?
Right now?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I'm in New York. I'm here doing press for.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Hablet okay, and I know that's a taxing thing, so
I appreciate you taking the time to do this for us.
My first question to you is what is the early
snapshot you have of yourself as a kid as far
as your memories are concerned.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Now, one of the most prominent memories I would have
I was a few, you know. One of them is
like playing cricket and basketball in my driveway with my
big brother and spending the whole summers doing that. But
another thing I used to do on my own the
whole time is act out movies, fake movies. So I
would like kind of decide on like a genre, like
this is a crazy violent like action movie, or this
(01:55):
is like a Home Alone had just come out, so
I was like, this is like a kid comedy or whatever,
and just like act out these elaborate entire stories from
start to finish. I used to make a note of it.
I used to I used to name the film, give
it a title and a rating. If there was you
PG parental guidance to twelve or eighteen. And I had
this teenage mutant Ninja Tell's like book notepad with all
(02:20):
the list of all these, My favorite, the banger that
I was most proud of was Black Dragon. There was
a Motorcycle Kung Fu Trilogy. And this is like from
when I was young man. I just always used to
do that when I was like into like Bruce Lee
films and then Jackie Chan. So yeah, I used to
do that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Wait, did you film these or you just imagine them
that you were in it yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
No, no, this is much less impressive than you imagining.
I'd neither wrote these things down nor did I film them,
just run around and acting out the entire story and
playing all the different characters of these weird movies. The
only evidence of them left behind is somewhere in that
the turtle's note pad. It says black Dragon one, Black
(03:03):
Dragon two, Black Dragon three, eighteen R rated. Or you know,
it was just like this. I just was obsessed with it,
and I used to just make these, you know, action
explosion sound effects like that. Was My mom's nickname for me,
was Tush.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Tush, just because you were your own a fixed guy.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I was my sound guy. I was. Yeah, wrote
the theme tune.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Okay, Yeah. What was the vibe in your house growing up?
What did your parents do for a living. Were they
artistically inclined or they.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Weren't overtly artistic in a sense. But a lot of
my early memories with my mom would be sat down
in front of the TV watching VHS cassettes of Bollywood
films or of Pakistani TV that had been sent asscross
from Pakistan. My dad was a way a lot. He
was in shipping. My mom was a homemaker, and she
was a career for her sister, and she lost her
(03:57):
mom young, so she was kind of like the oldest
sibling holding a lot of different things together at the
same time without my dad around as much as he
would have liked to have been as well. He was
working on ships and stuff in different countries. And I
just remember like sitting in her lap watching these Pakistani
comedy sketch shows, soap operas, pop music videos, Bollywood films,
(04:19):
and the Bob Marley legend VHS tape with all the
music videos on there, like one of the earliest music videos.
I remember, the Buffalo Soldier, and yeah, it was just
it was so it was the TV and the music
and the film and the comedy and the drama. They
were all mixed together always, you know, on whatever VHS
(04:41):
cassette had just been sent over from Pakistan or whatever,
or someone had gone there and visited and brought it back.
That was like a happy place. You know, that was
a happy place for my mom, and you know, me
and her are home. You know, my older siblings were
at school, so it was kind of present in the house,
even though they weren't performers themselves. But you know, it's
(05:01):
interesting I say that, like sometimes there's this trope that
kind of like immigrant families are like often not artistically
inclined or kind of dissuade the kids from doing that
because it's unstable or whatever. But culture takes many forms,
and like we're steeped in culture obviously, from our food
to the fashion, to the clothes, the music, to the
religious songs to the you know, so like culture was
(05:24):
in the house. We brought so much culture with us
as an immant family, even if it wasn't kind of
turned into our over way.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
What was the cool kid item that you always wanted
in your household that you never got to have?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Do you remember Mask Mask? Ask the movie Mask Mask. Yeah,
it was like it was like an animated non not
Jim Carrey. There was an animated there was an animated
action kind of cartoon.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Called Mask Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It was like central you know that kind of thing,
and it was one of them toys. It was. It
was just like it was like a car that fired
plastic discs or whatever. You know. I just loved it.
It was kind of like a night Rider rip off. Really, okay,
I wanted that or the RoboCop truck. I never got
the RoboCop truck. Never got that. I've probably watched a
lot of violent films too young to be honest, if
(06:21):
I think about it. I remember my uncle was just
showing me Nightmare on Elm Street when I was like
six years old, and I'm watching like like RoboCop like
too young, you know, and RoboCop too, and so I
just wanted the RoboCop toys, but I never got them.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
You want to know something now, that Nightmare on Elm
Street just had its fortieth anniversary, like maybe a year
or two ago. I went to watch it for the
very first time in a movie theater, and I'm so
shocked because I don't know if this is general knowledge.
I've already seen those things because I thought, like, I
(06:56):
don't like bludgeon films or anything. Nightmare on Elm Street
you literally see no act of violence. Like I didn't
realize that at no point does he ever stab someone
or whatever, Like he'll grab someone from behind a curtain,
you'll hear screaming or whatever. But I just realized that
the genius of that whole thing is that all the
(07:17):
violence we think happens is inside our heads, Like besides
the suspense music. I never knew that, at least for
the first one. I've not watched the other one, so
you know, as far as I know, he was on
a stab of mission. But wow, I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, And I always remember just being so terrified of it.
This day, I can't watch horror movies. It was like, yeah,
my uncles would like be renting these movies and babysitters
and they were on Elm Street on one after another.
But I'm still kind of like remembering some crazy like images.
But you're right, it was more like images and the
imagination and the sound and the suspense. It wasn't like
(07:54):
people having their heads culled.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Right, even the Johnny Depp see with the blood, like
it's just blood splattering everywhere, but at no point does
he get stabbed. And halfway through the film, I was like, Yo,
this is no violence.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
We're disappointed by that. Or is it like what did
you think? It's just kind of like a masterclass.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
When I left, I was just jaw drop that, like, wow,
there's no And I only noticed this only because Tarantino.
I told him a story about you know, verse of
our dogs or whatever, and he's like, no, correction, you
never see the ear getting sliced off. And he's like,
I turned the camera away. You hear it, but you
never see it. And I was like, oh, I never
(08:34):
knew that, but yeah, but still, yeah, that's even scarier
to me. Who's the one person in your life that
keeps you in check no matter what that grounds you?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I mean I feel like most of my family do that,
you know. I mean it's good and important to have
people in your life do not give two ships about
your quote unquote success, right, you know, who were just
like there to like have the same relationship with you
before you started doing you know, any anything or any
(09:13):
note and and kind of anchor you in that, you know.
I remember when we won an Oscar for Best Short Film.
I remember my cousin's group chat. Someone was like, yo,
you know, congratulations Risman PI four winning and one of
my cousins was just like really, not up on that
kind of stuff. Was like, okay, cool, is that like
(09:33):
a big deal?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Is that like when I won Regional Employee of the Month.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
They know what.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Direction this actually wasn't when I Want? Is when I
got nominated for Sound of Metal? And I said, is
that like when I got when I Want Regional Employee
of the Month. And then just before I could respond,
another cousin came in and said, now it's different because
you actually won that. You need people to take you
(10:05):
in that way and keep you know, it's important, and
you know, I don't want to be surrounded by like
sickophants and like transactional relationships. I'm kind of most of
my friends kind of kind of pre date any of
that or any of this.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So right, Yeah, I've visited or at least performed at
the Oxford campus twice, but I've always wanted to get
a different perspective on it. So, as a person of color,
what was the reality of being in an environment such
as Oxford?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I felt like a fish out of water? Really yeah,
on a cultural point of view, but also on a
class point of view, because actually you have different people
of color there from like different countries, like you got
the kids of princes and kings and dignitaries and the
zero point zero zero one percent of Bakistan or Nigeria
or whatever. They're there as well. But in terms of
like Black British Pakistani British like particularly that in that time,
(11:04):
it's like twenty something, you know, twenty years ago, twenty
five years ago. I definitely felt like an outsider, and
in many ways it was a great kind of lesson
for me, for like a training ground for going into
the film industry, where like, okay, your difference is also
something that can no know that can empower you. I
(11:24):
remember basically at Oxford I had been kind of like
m seeing at raves and on pirate radio stations and
stuff in London, and the whole kind of grime scene
was just exploding. Dizney Rascal was coming up, BBC Radio
had just launched music station Radio one Extra, and it
was just whole. There was just all this energy around,
this kind of boom of UK rap and UK sound
(11:46):
system culture going mainstream, and I was I felt missing
out on it. So I said, you know what, that
doesn't exist in Oxford. Let me let me try and
stop some of that. And so I started a club
night there was like hip pop and drum and bass,
and every week I was there on State, you know,
hosting and emceeing of a drum and bass and stuff
and got to like hone my craft. And it was
a kind of reminder in a way that if you
(12:06):
feel like you don't belong in a place, you can
kind of like try and I don't know, stretch, stretch
the parameters of that environment, you know, to make space
for you and others like you that actually that space
might be hungry for that. It might just you to
stick around in it rather than just be like, nah,
I don't belong here and leaving. So it was. It
(12:28):
was I think it was a gift and a curse
in many ways. It was. It was lonely at times,
it was challenging. It was a lot of friction around
like just be existing there, I felt. But it also
drove me to kind of like kind of, yeah, create
space for myself and people like me, And in many
ways I kind of continue trying to do that. In
the film business, what.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Was the best album that you purchased yourself?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I remember purchasing cassettes of singles, okay, more than albums.
Does that count? Do you definitely want an album? No?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
No, what's your own money? Like, what's what's the first
single you purchased? Would you?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I remember? Was it Jade Don't walk Away?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah? Of course, yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And then also it was actually the first album might
have been a Prince album. It was Diamonds and Pearls?
Was that an album? Was it a single?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Ninety one? Diamonds and Pearls the album?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I think it might have been that, And to be honest,
I think I just it was like I was in
Woolworths or whatever and it was just like on sale
and you don't. I was like it was cool, But
Jade was like intentional. I bought the cassette. I accidentally
put myself onto Prince. It was just like the in
the like bargain bucket or whatever. But that and I
(14:05):
remember I had I had that, I very much like
kind of loved, but they would been gifted to me.
And that was Michael Jackson. That was Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Bad Okay, that was.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The one that I was just like kept, but I
didn't I didn't buy that amount of money?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah I got it?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Remember what yours was?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I mean, look for years I've lied to the press
and said, like, it was a Jackson five record, but
my first Gifted Records. Yeah, my mind was a Neils.
I liked Neil Saidaka's bad Blood because I like the
way that the logo looked spinning on the forty five.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I meet my diamonds and just thought that's cool. I mean,
I like the colors, dude.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
For me, I'll say that the first ten years of
record collecting, like was just based on if I like
the way that the print of the logo looked on
the turntable, and thus I didn't like Capitol Records. So
I was not into the Beatles until actually until I
moved to London. Then I got into the Beatles.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
But yeah, like, wow, we're just buying books.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
No no, no, no, I group. Yeah, well, yeah, I judge.
I judge books based on exactly. It's funny to say
that because one of my favorite films, Ega Wright's Showing
of the Dead is a brilliant Prince joke where I
guess they're trying to fight off zombies and they ran
(15:41):
out of weapon, so now they have to use records,
and they're going through the entire alphabet and they get
to the letter P and the guy's like, I can't
waste my Prints records, And then even as their lives
are on the line, they're like judging Prints albums, like, well,
this album was shited, so let's use the Batman album
and like so.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Hearing oh the Batman. The Batman Album was at a
special place in my heart because I was a kid
when that came out. What do you feel about that album?
I loved it, man, you know, it's so weird and cooler,
like had this weird, like acid kind of situation going
on in it. And I just remember the hype around
that Batman film coming out as a kid, and you
(16:23):
just feel the biggest deal ever that you know. It
just it was special to me at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
As a long like long time Prince fans kind of
say that that's the beginning of the end, But I
see that as a necessary album for him to have
a longer career, like Purple Rain sustained him for the eighties,
but then he needed another platform album to sustain him
for another decade. So from a term of effectiveness, I'll
(16:55):
let it go. But as as a knowing what Prince
is capable of, and as Cannon, we were kind of
indifferent on it at the time, but I loved it
only because the day after I graduated high school, my
dad let me he My dad was a world famous
like music being shopper, so basically that was like the
(17:18):
last time he let me just go ape ape shit
inside of a record store and buy whatever I wanted
because I graduated at high school and so that album
came out that day. So I still have like fond
memories of that album, even though it's not in my
top five Prince albums of all time, but you know,
it just it just.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Had a special place in my heart because the memories.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
You know, I can see that, what was the very
first live show that you attended?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Wow, that's a good you know. I don't know if
it was like the very first one I attended, but
it was. I mean the earliest ones I attended would
have been like some Pakistani pop kind of bands, and
like Bollywood, there were a lot of like touring Bollywood shows.
So I grew up in Wembley right and so close
(18:07):
to the arena and stuff like that, and so back
in those days, how a lot of the Bollywood stars
would make money is they would go on world towards
where they would perform the songs from the hits, the
hit songs from the hit films, right, so you'd acts
like Saman Khan whatever, these guys would come to London
and like do song and dance kind of things. And
(18:27):
I remember those for sure, and going to like Pakistani
pop things like Vital Signs and Jannon and these kind
of these kind of bands, you know, like nineties like
pop and rock bands from Pakistan that would come and
play like Wembley Conference Center or whatever, like you know,
the whole community would show up. It was like it
was a vibe. But really the first thing I thought,
(18:50):
so I saw those technically before, but the answer came
to my mind. One of the most impactful was I
think the ten year anniversary of Ninja Tune Records.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Okay, yeah Tune yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I think it was like a ten anniversary or something
of that. And I went to that and Kid Kowala
was playing ah yeah, and I bumped into Talvin sing
over there, and Talvin Singh, who's like, you know, incredible
like Doubler electronic fusion artists from you know, big part
of that South Asian nineties kind of wave of music.
(19:25):
Him and It and Sonia and people like that Asian
Dub Foundation. I remember there was a cipher of teenagers
that we were like freestyling on the staircase, right, and
I remember Talvin sing like we stood there watching really
saw me, and he like yeah, and he like complimented me.
And I remember just feeling so gashed and I'm just
(19:48):
so encouraged. Like that sustained me for five years.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That was like Talvin Singh thought I was doing something,
you know, and he was like a cool guy in
the underground of that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Have you ever still go back and seen him since or.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You know, we connected once like many many years later,
but not not really not particularly. Yeah, I don't know
if he's listening, you know, shout out Talvin Singh's like
a real innovator there.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
You go, shout out to Talvim Singh, who are your
north star? Well, I would ask for five who are
your five north star mcs?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's just ems well I meant for you Yeah, yeah, okay,
just as.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
A lyricist, like who are your north Stars?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I feel like it's changed a lot. I feel like
before it was just all about kind of lyricism, and
you know, you know, as a teenager, it was just
all about kind of common and most entirely quality and
you know, the whole raucous kind of camp and all
of those guys.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Right And to this.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Day, I think Most Death is up there for me.
But I think it's changed now because it's more about
the range and the versatility of these artists and they're
kind of big bench that's really interesting to me now.
So whereas I would never have said this before, I
think now one of them is probably Mike Skinner from
the Streets.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The Streets, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, I would say Mike Skinner is up there. I
would say m i A is up there. You know,
I'm interested more now more than ever the genre bending.
I guess you could call them mcs who are kind
of like bending the form to their style. But I'd
still say Most Death. I mean, you know, honestly, I'm
a I'm just a huge, huge Kendrick fan again because
(21:36):
of the range of what he does and how he
bends as well. And I think I know someone who
I just really really love and rate that's like kind
of more contemporary to right now is Jay huss.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
In the UK.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So yeah, that's that's not necessarily my all time top five,
but off the top of my head, I mean I
think those a some mcs just always kind of think
they're just themselves, do you know what I mean? I
think that's the thing that I rate more than anything
now is someone who sounds like no one else, someone
who's like that could only be averse by them. You know.
It's just immediately distinctive in that way, in the way
(22:14):
that ODB was. I think, more than anything, I'm inspired
by people who are unapologetically themselves and doing something different,
Whereas before it was all about just lyricism and I
was skilling them junkie, right, yeah, just just just like
technical craft, you know what I mean, That's what I
was a big junkie. I think it's a different skill
(22:35):
to be like purely yourself.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yourself, Like, yeah, I feel for you.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
What was Can I just pause? Was going to say,
I'm talking to quest Love. I can't move on from
that question without asking you the same question me, I
really you got an all time top five.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Well you just reminded me. I totally forgot when like
my period in London was between like ninety three and
I think we gave up our flat ninety seven ninety
eight in kennish Town, and but coming back I definitely remembered.
I think we did some shows with the streets. You
(23:17):
reminded me how much I used to listen to his
first record, his first few records. I like weird EMCs,
you know, like I dig and I'll chance, yeah, of course,
like I know that I have a world class athlete
in my own band, which I think because Tarika is
so technically proficient as an MC, I'll tend to champion
(23:41):
those that might not ever wind up on anyone's like
top ten list, even though I think, you know, I
still early cool Keith Edon Cool, Keith Paul Barman, Pastuus
of De La Soul, you know, of course, like Doom,
like just anyone that's like super weird like that too
(24:04):
out into Right now, I'm going through like my Doom
phase again, so I'll go through stages.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
But you know what's really interesting about Doom is that
he's right in the middle of that ven diagram of
weird m season like technical masters that like just really
headsy lyrically oriented fans would always also turn to.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's interesting, you know, I can't move on without talking
about Black dought for a minute because I think in
that period when I was most just like purely listening
to rap, I think, you know, most it would have
been Black Dot. And I actually got to tell you
that that Things for the Part album was just a
life changing album for me. Man. It was life changing
on so many levels in particular, like, yeah, just to
(24:45):
find a certain period of time in my life. And
I tell you something that I was just really gassed off,
and so many people in London were so gassed off.
Is I'm sure you heard this. The drum and bassed
lick at the end, the drum and bass break at
the end, Yeah, yeah, worry about me, you know what
I mean? Yeah, And so at the end when it
(25:06):
just drops and drummer and it only does it for
like twenty seconds or whatever. But I just felt, I
don't know, you know, that was that was like mid nineties, right,
so it's like the heyday of jungle and drummer bass.
I'm going to this and it just brought in together
in a way that was just I don't know, man,
it just felt like I felt seen. I feel like
it made that track even more beloved in the UK
(25:27):
that it just went into that double time drummer based
thing at the end of that track. But yeah, I
mean that's that's probably one of the first That and
I think the Mystery of chess Boxing were the first
two things that I like learned off by heart, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, you know my I've told the story before of
you know, I was. I was fortunate enough to kind
of be there at the very beginning of when like
jungleists and drum and bass were like starting to be
a thing, and when we decided to move to London
for real, for real. The first thing we did was
(26:00):
we went to a nightclub and they started playing Anita
Baker and we were like laughing at London, like, oh
my god, why are they listening to like slow jams?
Why are they playing sweet Love in the in the
in the nightclub? And then when that hook came up, Yo,
I was scared for my like, we I wish did
(26:22):
you guys.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Meet to London? Why did you meet to London? You
guys just wanted to change up, taking some new influences.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
You know, it's weird. Okay. So we had spent two
years in this massive bidding war. We got the record
deal of our dreams and then the album was finished,
and then we realized that the label not only did
the label who just started a black division we were
on Geffen Records, that they weren't prepared to really promote us.
(26:51):
But then on top of that, you know, ninety three
was kind of like a shifting year for creativity and
black music, of which we got by because suddenly it
was a novelty being a band, like we were one
of that when we got first got signed, I think
seven black bands still had a record deal, whereas you
(27:12):
know in the seventies there were thousands, you know what
I mean. So we just decided the very last minute,
we have to do what Jimmy Hendrix did. So the
second we finished our album, we met Giles Peterson. We
booked a week at the Jazz Cafe, and then with
the money we made from that, we just got a
(27:32):
flat in Kennish Town and just never came back home.
We decided to make London our hub, and then we
just worked Europe literally for four years, and eventually the
label was like, all right, you guys got to come
back home and like be for real. So for things
fall apart. We finally came back to America, but for
(27:54):
the most part, Like I don't think we would have
made a dent had we just relied on on whatever
buzz we were going to get America, Like we felt
we had to go to London to the world and
then come back home newly, newly improved, and you.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Know, asol, I love that. I love that. Yeah, And
it's so it's so kind of amazing to see more
of that cross pollination between you know, music coming out
of London in the UK and the US and seeing
the moment that the UK rappers also having as well
over there just out of interest, would you say you
got me? Is still like the most played and like beloved.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, that's that's our most popular And I literally did it.
Like when we left London and you know, came back
home to start recording, I knew that, Like the last
project I worked on that was like London Base, I
did something with Ronnie Size, and you know, I was
just like, yo, man, I want to I want to
(28:57):
do something that you know, it gives us a a
tip of the hat or not to where we came from.
Like I thought Jungle was going to be like the
biggest thing ever. So I was just like, I want
to come out the gate before like America catches on
and America didn't. However, I do believe now that we're
(29:19):
flirting with like Jersey house, especially where like where lil
Uzi Verd is going and like these artists that are
using Jersey House music and the speed of it. I
think maybe now we might be ready for it, because
at least where we are as far as where the
country is, even though we're trying to remain zen and
(29:41):
calm through this ordeal that we're going through. I almost
feel as though the soundtrack to junglest is like this
is the time to unleash it, like that feeling of
urgency in the air. So yeah, man, I just wanted
to do it just as a tip of the hat
to the place where we came.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
From a ran that deep. I thought maybe you guys
were just playing around with different drum breaks, but it's
so beautiful to know that it came from being steeped
in that and around that.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I mean, jungle music is like, you know, a very particular,
very UK thing, and I think it caught on a
lot more in Canada, Toronto in particular, because the kind
of Caribbean kind of connection. It's obviously, so much of
UK black music comes out of that connection to like
dance or and Caribbean music and how that blends with
like electronic music. But but of course it's always been
(30:31):
that bridge. Like if you think of garage, garage came
out of like what it's called garage because the Paradise garage, right,
and it was like US H and G as they
see H and G was house and garage that was
American stuff and your two step carriage which is called
UK garage, right, and then that was just you know,
slightly different. But to this day, I would say that Gabriel,
(30:52):
that the Roy Davis Junior pevn ever Itt sung is
at least for my generation, a lot of people's number
one track, you know, of all time. That's the kind
of redemption song or whatever of garage heads. Do you
know what I mean? Is it's a US track, is
Roy David Junior and Peven Ever So, yeah, I'm glad
to see that kind of like that dance floor kind
(31:13):
of cross put pollination more.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It's funny you mentioned him because one of my favorite
songs of his that I spend there's a jazzy tune
that he did call you get Me, which it's more
of a two step uh production. But yeah, that's that's
a song that I think has fallen under people's radar,
(31:36):
and I feel as though that song is waiting to
be discovered.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So is this a Roy Davis Junior's track or.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah you got Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, he's kind of like he's just he's so incredible
and so talented and and from what I understand, it's like,
you know that there was like a whole crazy backstory
around that track, and yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Got one day and find out about it. I finally
connected with him, like I think like two or three
years ago, finally got to meet him and give him
his his flowers. I always wanted to know, So, what
(32:21):
is the one lesson in life that you had to
learn the hard way?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
So many man, but I think I think, like I'm
trying to find a way of saying is that doesn't
sound super basic, but I'm gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Just come with it.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
It's about kind of like not of like just just
just not the power of not performing. And what I
mean by that is I grew up code switching a lot,
you know, I grew up in a certain kind of
word that was not privilege, but you know, it wasn't
like crazy intense or violent or anything which was not privileged.
(33:05):
And I've got a government scholarship to a private school.
So there was like this class code switching that came
from an immigrant Pakistani background and household. But I was
in Britain and there was that code switching, and it
was the nineties of it said, and it was like,
you know, this explosion of South Asian British culture and
you know, garage and drum and base, and there was that,
(33:25):
and I had all these different identities and I feel
like for so much in my life I had been
code switching, so much so that when I was starting
out both as a professional actor and MC, I was
really eager to keep those two things different, just kind
of some kind of just like instinctive compartmentalizing I would do.
And I think I feel like I'm almost making up
for lost time now of just really bringing together those
(33:49):
supposedly contradictory parts of myself in the things that I'm
making and bringing together the music with the film, bringing
together the just those unapologic sides that I would sometimes
instinctively like edit right. And it sounds like a kind
of pretty basic lesson to learn. But even when I
thought I was being unapologetically myself, I was still kind
of like shifting gears instinctively, you know. And I want
(34:11):
to kind of like come into the room with all
of my mess and just be like, yeah, this is
my mess, this is it is all of it. And
I think that's something that has just helped me feel
more calm and in touch with who I am, you know. Yeah,
so like with a show like Bait that we made,
(34:33):
you know, bringing a soundtrack together around that and having
tracks on them myself and bringing to my favorite artists
from around the world into that, or with the Long
good Bye the short film, you know, just kind of
blending almost like soliloquies and spoken word with like that
action thriller kind of film language and just trying to
(34:56):
kind of put it all in one part. And I
think that's what I like, you know, I have that
kind of eclictic taste, and I have those different sizes
of myself and I want to kind of express it
all and not kind of whole different parts of myself back.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, so you have to build your own platform so
that you can express all the facets of yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Thank you very succinctly put yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, it's understandable. You once said that you'd rather be
broke than to be type cast. Now looking back, what
was the hardest what was the hardest know you had
ever had to say? And you know, I know how
integrity and personal code is to manage in an industry
(35:41):
in which, you know, minorities are constantly having to jump
hurdles and codes, which but like for you, what was
one of the knows that you had to give that
would have been like either lucrative for you or.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
I mean, I I guess I'm just wondering if I
should say it, But like there's a there's you know,
I mean, I don't want to say.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh yeah, you don't just say the movie or whatever.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I mean, yeah, I mean, when I came off the
back of the Night Of, I offered a big lead
role in a big TV series on net Please, playing
a lead roles like an actually kind of thriller thing,
And it went on to be a huge, huge, huge hit,
and it was very successful, and you know, I think
it probably would have done a lot for me kind
(36:33):
of straight off the Night Of into something like that,
And and I couldn't do It wasn't even so much
about the role that I was playing in terms of
type casting. It was definitely for me kind of like
would have been a great look. It was just the
basic storyline was was about terrorism, and it was very stereotypical,
and it's portrayal of Muslim characters. And even if I
(36:54):
would get to transcend that stereotype and I would get
to play that, you know, just kind of like lead
guy role and be unshackled by that, I saw what
it was doing to everyone else around me and the story,
and it was I just do it, And sometimes I
kind of look back it was like, man, that would
have you know, that would have been a great look.
(37:15):
But if you at the overall of my journey, I'm
very pleased that I didn't do it because to me,
like having a career is not an end in itself,
Like telling stories, it's kind of not an end in itself.
It's about what you're saying with it. It's about how
you're trying to push culture and try and challenge people,
challenge yourself, you know, and like falling back on some
(37:37):
of the lazy narratives for me is like that's the
opposite of what I want to be doing with my time?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Are you given agency to have a conversation with the
screenwriter or the director or the producer that, look, I'd
like to adjust some things in this character or given
more of a soul.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Course I've done that loads, But I mean, I just like,
sometimes it's baked into the story. You're not going to
change a thing, Like do you know what I mean?
If it's that is it's not like icing on the cake.
It is the cake. Sometimes it was that okay.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
So Baita is a series that draws some parallels frankly
that you know that we're living in right now as
far as like you know, xenophobia, anti immigration views. But
when when did the idea start to crystallize as far
as you developing this.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Well, crystallized quite late on. But I've been scribbling down
kind of ideas and anecdotes for about since about twenty fourteen.
Obviously what started happening started to become more well known
in America, and kind of there was this widening gap
between my public and private self. You know, it's I
don't know. The same week that it got announced I
(38:52):
was in Star Wars was the same week I got
banned from my local Tesco supermarket for suspected shoplifting just
because I was like wearing bizarre clothes. My washing machine
had broken. I was dragging around a massive laundry bag
full of dirty clothes. They thought, like, who is this guy?
Is he like unhoused, like you know whatever. It was.
The whole thing was just it was just like you know,
(39:12):
people think as soon as people think you're going to
be on a yacht with hand solo, but it's like
you still go to your laundry washing me see still breaks.
It's still human world. Yeah, And so that gap between
your public and private self started creating more stressful and
kind of slightly hilarious situations, and I just kept starting
making a note of them. And I knew I wanted
to make something about that. And someone once told me
(39:35):
that gap between your public and private self is how
much shame you carry, right, And I knew I wanted
to make a kind of suppersive comedy within that playground
of shame, and and and so I started drawing from
all these very very specific and personal things, and so
many things in the show. I mean, I remember in
(39:58):
the end of You doing My Kennich Town at the
end of episode one. My character has a panic attack
at Kenish Town Forum. Okay, that that happened to me
when I was booed off stage supporting Wu Tang clan.
What yeah, yeah, Wu Tang were like two and a
half hours late. So when someone finally came out on stage,
you know, I came out and I was like, yeah,
that's not method.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Man, oh you got Oh no, that's unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, but I stayed. I stayed the course and just
did an a cappella and I knew there would be
kind of a more lyric our in the crowd, and
you know, the booze turned to cheers. Short set I've
ever done two minutes, turned the booze around some cheers.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
And got out of it.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
That was me.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, too many, thank you. And and so there's so
many things like you know, my character gets jumped as
a kid in a park in Wembley. That was the
park behind my parents' house. You know, it's a sweet
shot they do to get sweets on Eve. We'd go
there like it's even being approached by m I five
to spy for them. That's happened to me like three
times since I've becoming actor.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
I was going to ask you, as you mentioned that,
have you ever unfortunately had to name drop who you
are in terms of getting out of a situation that
if you weren't who you were, it would have gone downhill?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
This is what I'm talking about is the opposite. They
approached me because I was an actor that was increasingly
well known. When when the security services were approaching me,
they were like, you're an actor with a profile almost
can you can you inspire for us? Can like? Can
we talk to you? Can you help us with messages? So?
And I just kind of shut the door to that,
you know, But that's why I's depicted in the show. Right,
(41:39):
let's happened to you several times. But what in terms
of name dropping who I am? Now, it wasn't that,
But I had a weird thing happened actually once at
the airport in America. Was in Canada, Canadian border.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Next thing he threw, Yes, they're the most intense he
throw in Canada.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Canada is intense, and MYAMMI is intense. Miami with the
Cuban staff there who are like super like you know, Patriot,
like there's a whole thing there.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, that's ass backwards.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I went to this thing while I was getting pulled
aside in Canada or something, and they will keep you
there for a long time. And this guy called me
up and he goes. Finally, after the age is waiting
and being rude, he goes and usually talk to someone.
And I took the phone from him and it was
a woman and she goes, can I tell you at
home we have a light sabered pizza cutter.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
What. I was like, okay, And he took the phone
back and he goes to my wife and I was
like okay, and he starts nodding and filling in the paperworkers. Okay,
now you've done that and performed for me in some
way like you can bounce. And then I go with
your wife, yeah, he goes, yeah, he goes, she's over there,
and he points down the desk and like five kiosks
down it's his wife is also a border control person
(42:58):
of the desk, didn't me. I was like, this is
so surreal. So it probably did help it go me
out in some situations. And I didn't get stopped as
much off that. But it was like a decade where
coming to the US was like three and a half hours.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
You know, I apologize it, trust me. It got different
once I turned forty five and suddenly people my age
were the border patrol people. But even then I knew
I had to look like questlove. So I had to
wear a lego heart and have my afro pick out
and you know.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And yeah before your public self. Yeah, it's guess what
bait is about. Really, it's about that, you know, Yeah,
trying to see what people expect you to be.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
You made this for me wearing like a so let
me ask. So, Shakespeare has been a passion of yours
since your teens, and this year you're in Hamlet. So
what about the classics, especially for this one attracted you
to this role and in this particular interpretation of it? Like,
(44:06):
what was the journey that it took to get here?
Speaker 2 (44:10):
You know, it was a long journey, he said. Like
when I was a teenager, I felt like Shakespeare was
the exact thing that I was. Epitomized everything that I
was on the outside of. Right, it's like this stuffy
British establishment thing. And I had an amazing teacher, a
white Jewish guy from Wolverhampton who happened to speak fluent Punjabi.
(44:34):
He took me under his wing, he gave me the plane, said,
you feel like an outsider. Well, actually, sort of the
characters the heart of these plays. So this guy Hamlet,
you know, the most famous was Revered Shakespeare plays the
heart of all this stuffiness you feel like doesn't belong
to you. Check it out. He feels like you feel,
And like so many teenagers and so many people of
all ages around the world, like I saw what this
(44:55):
guy's feeling, and I think it's actually how we're lot
also feeling right now, which is like, is the world
going crazy? Or have I lost my mind? You know,
that's the central kind of thread in a way in Hamlet,
and that feeling is something I latched onto and I've
felt to different degrees throughout my life, and I think
we all feel that way right now, and so I
(45:15):
just really connected with it emotionally. I created connected with
the language, the rhythm, the flow, the percussion of it.
It reminded me of rap music in that way. But
also a thing that really kind of struck me was
that this quintessentially British play felt like this is the
brownest thing I've ever read. This is like growing up
in Wembley. This is about family due to honor, love
(45:40):
kind of being you know, who you can and can't marry,
being a family decision. You know, spirits in the afterlife
feeling like they're part of people's lived experience. It just
felt like very very relatable to me coming from an
immigrant community. You know a lot of these old classic
feel more relevant and more real almost setting some of
(46:02):
these kind of just now. So yeah, all of those
things kind of blew me away and it changed out
how I saw myself in relation to the culture, and
I thought I wanted to. I want to make a
film of Hamlet, Like when I was seventeen, I remember
thinking that. I was like, I want to, you know, yeah,
kind of blow it open and create a version that
(46:22):
like a lot of people can see themselves in.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Right now, What is your relationship with making music?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I just put out of track two days ago. It
was my first track in about four and a half
years with Cass is Dead. You know Cass, the UK rapper.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
I've heard, but not not overly familiar.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
It's amazing, man, you You've got to checking stuff out.
He's like a cult kind of figure.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Okay, UK.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
So yeah, we've got the Bait as a soundtrack, and
I've got a couple of tracks on there, so I
exec produced the soundtrack. Georgia Smith is doing the lead
song on it.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Ah damn sure you know, of course.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, it's a Bond themed TV show, right, so we
needed a Bond song. So Georgia is doing our Bond song.
It is a timeless, four blown Bond song.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
It's like nice, she's doing her shairly bassy thing.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
She's doing that full blown.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah nice.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
And then and so I just dropped this track with
cass is Dead. All we good. It's just dropped two
days ago. And that's also on the Bait soundtrack.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Okay, My second to last is how has fatherhood changed you?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
It's maybe a lot more tired.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Just look on your face right now, tell.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Me, you know see how he's changing broke Like I
mean it just you just have less time to like
fuck around with stuff that you can't be bother to do,
or you just start at the time, just you just
start stripped back to the essentials that what do you
really care about? Who do you really care about? It's
just that you know, and if you're going to kill
yourself make a TV show over like ten years or
(47:56):
a movie over fifteen years, you better really care about it.
So I'm proud to say, like these two things that
are at the same time, they're very different, but I'm
deeply passionate about what they have to say and putting
them out there in the world. And yeah, I hope
people can feel that when they experience it.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Well, my final question is food related though, what is
what is your local food heaven destination spot.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Local food heaven destination spot. Yes, I'm going to shout needus.
Grill Needs is a classic East London curry house and
it features heavily an episode four of Bait. It is
like every episode of Bait is like almost takes place
in the different genre. And episode four is like Richard
(48:42):
Lincolay a walk and talk, and it's a walk and
talk through immigrant East London rather than like touristic Paris, right,
And so it starts in Needs and it's in Needws
and it's just banging Beryanni and Helem and Nihari and
my mouth is watering even talking about it. But yeah,
sharing Needs, man, it's just one of my faves.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, I thank you for doing this, uh, I appreciate
your artistry. Man, and you know, hopefully we can have
a longer conversation about your because I have a billion
questions about sound of metal. But I really admire you
as everything that you've done in music and in film
and and your artistry.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Man, And thank you so much brother. Likewise, man, you
know your music and what you what you've created, it has
been a has inspired me for years and years man,
And what you're doing now is doing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
So thank you, Bro, appreciate it. Ris I met on
the Quest Love Show and we'll see you guys next Gogram,
Thank you. Quest Love Shows hosted by Me Mirror Questlove Thompson.
Executive producers are Sean g Brian Calhoun and Me. Produced
(49:58):
Brittany Benjamin Jacob Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown,
Edited by Alex Conroban. iHeart Video supported by Mark Canton, Logos,
graphics and animation by Nikol and Loewe. Additional support by
Lance Cordon. Special thanks to Kathy Brown. Special thanks to
(50:23):
Sugar Steve Mandeli. Please subscribe, rate, review, and share The
Quest Love Show wherever you stream your podcast, make sure
you follow us on socials that's at q LS. Check
out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes, including Quest Love
Supreme Shows, and our podcast archives. Quest Love Show is
(50:47):
a production of iHeart Radio
Hosts And Creators
Laiya St. Clair
Questlove
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