Thundercat

Thundercat joins Questlove for a wide-ranging, deeply personal conversation that traces his journey from Compton and church gigs to global stages with Flying Lotus, Mac Miller, and beyond. He breaks down the spiritual impact of MF DOOM, how mentors like Dazz Band affiliate Reggie Andrews and his musician parents shaped his ear. Thundercat reflects on surviving LA’s realities, finding creative family with Kamasi Washington and crew, and the role comics, anime, and Disneyland played in building his singular universe. He and Questlove compare Jazz upbringings, talk bass gods (Stanley vs. Jaco), grief and growth after losing collaborators, and the daily work of staying present in a chaotic world. Thundercat's newest album, Distracted, is out now.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Quest Left Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Okay, put them on the table. Do you do what?
You make more sense? Right, because we're going to talk.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
We're gonna talk.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're talking about it.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yes, we're going to playing our spot nay Man a
year tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'm here, your name, I'm leaving. I'm leaving.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, where are you? Next? Thing?

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Next is the Australia, New Zealand and Tokyo in Japan.
I'm doing the Ronnie Foster.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm leaving on a midnight playing.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Ah. Okay, wait are we on? I'm sorry?

Speaker 4 (00:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (00:54):
All right, god I did that like Walter Crime. Good evening.
All right, So once again, ladies and gentlemen, you are
tuned into the platform that apparently is a haven for
bass players. Yes, we've had so far, James Alexander, we
have flee. You had none but coin words for our

(01:15):
guest today. Of course, the Mono Neon episode, which we
guys were highly happy with today, is no exception. I
got to get a drummer on here. Eventually, it's probably
reductive to just refer to our guests as a bass
player or a Grammy winning bass player. I really don't
know the proper superlative that could accurately describe our guest today.

(01:39):
He's definitely one of the quirkiest I mean, of course,
these are things you've heard about him. Quirky, genius, very distinctive,
very original. I love his work because it's full of
truth and humor and pain. It scares me to here
is music because these are often the thoughts that are
in my head.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh man.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, So as we celebrate Black Music Month, we at
QLs here are happy to welcome the one of the
only Thundercat to the show.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Thank you, bro Man, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
All right, number one, you got to show me the chain.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Okay, what's the Doom?

Speaker 3 (02:16):
I wore these because I wanted to get a chance
to talk to you about him.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
This is a very very special story.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
He hold it up to our you know, two of them.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
If you look on the inside, there's an inscription too,
there's a wow. This was These were created by Han Soolo,
who was the person who created the actual Doom mask.
And on the inside it says here lies Victor von
Doom aka Daniel du Malay rip. Nineteen seventy one. There's
a long there's a story behind him.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
What's the story.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Okay, so there is there's a little bit of a
history between me Flying Lotus Doom, you know, working on
a couple of things together, this specific moment where these
come about or these take effect. They were like some
things I think that were released or Adult Swim, and
it was like one song was called Between Friends and

(03:10):
Between Villains and it was kind of like Captain Murphy
Flying Lotus. So it's like it's kind of like you
know him, you know, spitting and like it's one of
those moments where from that fast forward there's so many
you know, like the legendary stories of how he really
was the villain slash, you know, be.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Doing all kinds of stuff like, man, wait a minute,
is that him? You know?

Speaker 3 (03:31):
No, these two take place after he's moved back to
London and I think they, oh, yeah, I'm forgetting. One
of the songs that was also leading to this, there's
a song called lunch Break on Grand Theft Auto five
where this was a moment of Doom also like kind
of you know, getting back into doing stuff. So it's
like it was kind of like the idea or notion

(03:52):
of getting getting a chance to work more with him
was like really you know, Oh my god, you know,
it's exciting, it's you know, and.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
How many songs were completed at all?

Speaker 3 (04:02):
I mean this, I feel like Flying Lotus would know more,
bit you know, but I know that there was a couple,
you know, and but nonetheless, i'd me again, I'm like,
I have a doom tattoo, you know what I mean?
Like again, come into the knowledge of doom is such
like a spiritual experience, you know what I mean, It's
like for anybody. And I think that's kind of why
the mass kind of even just resonates with people.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Well, I sort of experienced this firsthand when Kolkeith hmm,
you know, he came to me as you know, one
fourth of the ultraman Negin seas and then he had
this whole nother afterlife now doomed to me like because
of my age, I guess or my experience, you know,
and on third base in the gas face like he's

(04:45):
always been zev love X to me. And I had
to get accustomed to doom because they're so radically different, yeah,
than just your traditional break pieces and stuff. But I
would like to ask people that worship at the altar
of doom, like is there ever any curiosity into his

(05:06):
past his Clark Kent period?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (05:10):
And you got to For me, it's kind of like
I would have to go backwards because it's like I
removed by about ten, twelve, fifteen years and I would
come to discover that stuff later on before I.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
After right, Okay, that's why I want to know the
osmosis thing. For me, I got it. And again I come.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
I come from a history that with the dudes that
Sara where it was like do your history, No, no,
go backwards and know where things came from and leading
to these chains being made. There's like this him expression
to want to work more, but I would have to
go meet him in London because you know.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
He wasn't wasn't allowed by states.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
You know, good Lord, that did not age well right now.
But we were like, nah, whatever it takes, let's it
don't matter. I'm pulling up. I was like I saw
the goal, I saw the you know, the you know,
I know where we were going and what could have been man,
oh my god. Now I'm thinking about it, like, ah,
what could have been lying Lotus? And you know it's

(06:09):
we were building a nuke, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
I always at least in my head, and this is
weird for me to ask a question because like I know,
now I'm playing the role of journalists and you're the artist.
But also forget that in my day job, i'm one
of you. However, when you have an entire ecosystem. And
I mean this in the most lovinglessiest way. Ever, when

(06:34):
I say batch it crazy, I just meant like eccentric.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Oh you know, we got it?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Like someone has to play the straight person, do they not?

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Or like, look, there's the years of who.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Wants to be in the alpha in a room, like
in this situation, if it is Lotus, who's the alpha
and who's someone has to be fifty one forty nine?
Do they not?

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Or m speaking of it in that terminology? I think
no way.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
There's a place that exists in the heart of knowing
that the value of it is worth its ability to
figure it out.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
So it's almost as.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
If being the president and if it works, it works exactly.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
So like even when me and Lotus would look at
each other, it would be like this, it was like
it was like Star Trek.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
It was like make it so it was like here we.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Go, all right, see this is why I have this platform.
I think because of my drill Sergeant Dad like has
made me into such a control freak that I'm almost
afraid to have that level. I mean, I guess you
could say I might have had it with D'Angelo, but

(07:41):
even with him, by like month one, I think I
was operating in fear.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Because label people will drop by and you know, mind
you this is ninety six ninety seven, so everything's like
sexy and shiny, and yeah, you know they're thinking he's
going to come up with like one twelve's only you.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Right right and jeans with a big belt buckle and right, and.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
You know, by like the first year, I was like,
oh god, they're gonna blame me. They're gonna blame me
for this, blame me for this. So I just was
never in that.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Place that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
I would try to reel it backwards like the crazier
they got right, So right, okay, But I always wanted
to know that, what is your first musical memory in life?

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Oh there's something that did pop in my mind and
I vaguely remember it. I don't know if this was like,
you know, this is from a different era of like
I don't even know I'm remembering it wrong, I'm sure,
but I remember. I think this was in Detroit with
my mom.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
I think you born.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
I was born here in La Okay, raised in Compton
for maybe the first ten some odd years of my life.
Four Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm from Compton, like my
dad's really from Compton. Like my dad is like Compton Compton,
went to like Centennial and then when he when the family,
my dad married my mom and she was from Inkster, Michigan, and.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
She moved to La to be with my dad.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
And we at the in in that first few years
of life. I would I think they were maybe trying
to figure.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Out where we were going to go or.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
And I remember my mom always always make sure to
try to remind me of things, like you know, growing
up at church out there, or like I don't remember anything.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
I remember McDonald's.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
I remember, you know, like drawing the Ninja turtles and
getting in trouble falling off a swing. I think I
got in trouble for flashing my neighbor. Like I don't know,
I remember it's snowing a lot. I think I got
remember cat poop in Compton. No, no, no, this is
in Detroit, Detroy. No, not snowing in Compton.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay. I was like, wait a minute.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
From what I can remember growing up in Compton, I
just remember my grandma's back door that led to the kitchen.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I think I got in trouble. There a lot you
got in trouble.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
A lot didn't.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, I would imagine.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
I think there's a couple of there's like a couple
of moments that I can see in my brain, Like
I think there was a garage, and I think there
was like this brick wall around our house that was
blocking us off from the main road in the freeway
and everything, but it was like concrete. I think I
remember standing face in the corner with like a voice
changing helmet in my like my toy guitar. That was

(10:27):
like but but it wasn't like because I was in trouble.
I just think I liked the corner and I liked
how I was, like it made my voice sound, so
I would like base the corner and like play with
the toy. I don't know, maybe that sounds weird. I'm
pretty sure it does. But yeah, no, that's but it
was lived between Compton and for a small stint of
time Inkster, Michigan. Okay, and my first memory would be

(10:49):
singing this song. I don't know it was for church
or something with my brother where it was like I remember.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Take my life and let it be constantly created.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
And I don't remember what it was for. I feel
like there was a video and that was the only
time I can remember wearing a suit.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
I think I hated it ever in life.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, I think that was the I feel like I
remember it was like my mom had us in it
was like Christmas suits. I had like a green suit
with a bolo tie. It was like a seersucker and
I think that was my I was like, never again and.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
You stuck to that. Yeah. Okay. So when you said
you're from Compton, and I'm certain that that's maybe ninety
percent of your reactions, But I also realized that my
reactions are based on what I hear from the news. Yeah,
because we live where we live, I'm now questioning everything
I hear. So I will ask you, what do we

(11:44):
get wrong about Compton? And was that just marketing to
sell some records? Because the thing is is that my
mother's side of the family left Pittsburgh. Half of them
moved to Alta Dina, and I think my grandmother got
a house in Compton. So apparently I lived in Compton
in like for one year in nineteen seventy three while

(12:06):
my parents went to make a record, right, and you know,
I have slight memories of life childhood.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
And it wouldn't act. It wouldn't act.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, So I mean it wasn't just the marketing, like
what was your Compton neighborhood like, or more specifically, if
you were this quirky, eccentric kid or this person that
you are, now, how do you navigate that in your childhood?
Because I was that person in my neighborhood. Yeah, And
by the age of five, my parents were wise enough.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
To be like, we got to move.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
No, you no, Like you're staying in the house.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
So yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
They wouldn't let me go outside. They just thought, like,
you're way too vulnerable, you'll get beat up every day.
And so I just lived in the house with records.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
I hear you.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
There's a lot of intersectional points academically to socially that
existed for the places that we were growing up and
stuff like that. And I got two versions of the
story for what this is because there is the person
that's got their head in the clouds, so to speak.
That has to be kind of like all right, Stephen,
you know. And that takes place a little bit later

(13:15):
in life, like from maybe thirteen up. And that was
on meeting Reggie Andrews. But my name I always hear
the most.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah he is, Uh, was Reggie Andrews specifically responsible for
every musician? Yes, And because I hear the name Reggie
Andrews of course of the Dazz Band.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, it's like it's almost like a sitcom because like
for me, he's just the teacher, mister Andrews. You know,
he's like, you know, it's bald, big mustache, you know,
and like that old like it's almost like a vigner
and a TV show.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
It's like you and me and my heyday.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
And then when I only saw a video him in
the Dazz Band on the funeral and my jaw was
on the floor, I was like.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
So you didn't know let it whip or let it
or enjoy stick or no.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
I knew all the songs. I knew all the songs.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I knew everything, but again esthetically or seeing it in action,
I didn't know what that was. I was like I
always would hear, like mister Andrews was like, oh earth
wind and fire level, Like I would be like, I
mean the guy that wears the card again with the
with I'm like, nah, I know, I just don't see it.
And then I saw it and I was like, if
that's what he was instilling in me, Oh yeah, I'm
I'm there it is.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
How long did he teach at the school? Since it
was built from the ground up.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
There's a picture of him at the beginning of the
school getting built.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, with a silver shovel. Who else of note went there?
Because literally, you gotta be the twentieth person. I know,
that's name.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
And the far side Patrese Terrace Martin, I mean off
the top. That's just the first thing there's So there's
a lot. My teacher went to fire a horn section
of Gerald Albright.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Good lord? What was he teaching us?

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yes, good lord?

Speaker 2 (14:55):
What didn't he teach us? He taught us how to
be men.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
We used to have a program called Men of Life
delegation Tyres Gibson too. You know, my brother, my older brother,
Ronald good lord. But it's like he taught us how
to survive, like for real, for real, like he taught
us how to survive, Like our school was central to
multiple gang territories.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
How do you avoid that?

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Mister Andrews will whoop your asss Like he was that teacher.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
He'd be like, don't come in here with that, and
he would drop kick you in the hallway. For me
and my brother, he was like a second father. My
dad had known Reggie maybe since high school to college,
and so it was one of those things where like
mister Andrews was like, when they're of age, you know
where to send him because he started teaching early on,

(15:45):
I think. But in the bigger scheme of the experience
of growing up, we grew up on the line of
the line between Compton and Watts which was separated by
the one oh five Freeway.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, so it's like I don't know, like we kind.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Of slowly migrated further north, like landing in West Adams
by the time I was about thirteen fourteen, which is
where this all kind of meets in a different place.
Me in middle school, I would get picked up. We
were going to go to lack High School. I wanted
to go to Fairfax for illustration, like you know, I
was like I knew Tom McFarland went there. I was like,

(16:17):
I want to be I want to be an illustrator,
and my dad was like, absolutely not. Why because I
don't know if there's like an undertone of like, you know, nah,
you will you will definitely be broke for the rest
of your life. I don't know what that was, but
it was also like the wanting to be the illustrator

(16:37):
versus mister Andrews being at the helm. I think it
was my dad knew the importance of us being with
Reggie Andrews.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Is this him?

Speaker 2 (16:46):
No, that's Don Cornelius.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Now come on, now, I know Don Cornelius.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
Is him?

Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, that ain't him.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Okay, I'm on an old episode of Soul Train.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
He played keyboards, So if he is on soul Train,
you're gonna blow my mind too.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
No, he's definitely want the dash man's on Soul Train.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
That looked like, no, no, that's not him. No, I
may not see man. I can't I see a like.
I know I can recognize people's faces, but mister Andrews
with a Jerry Crow Is is that him right there.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
On the far left? That's him on the far left?
Is that right there? That just pointed to the drummer. Yes, wait, no,
that can't be Reggie Andrews. No, hold on, it's a
whole lot of members.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Hold on, they've had members throughout the Yeah, that looked.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
That looked a little bit like need to me. I'm
like they had the softness of the face.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
I was like, wait, I definitely know one of these
catch is Reggie Andrews.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, because I'm saying, I was like, wait a minute,
all I see is a handlebar mustache.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
I can't I don't know how long he's had to
handle I now.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I feel like there should be a documentary short on
him on his mustache or just yes on the mustache.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
What did your parents do? I know your dad was
a musician.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, my dad both musicians. My mom used to play
in the Philharmonic. My dad what did he play? Flute,
floutist and a bit of percussion, and my U show
again also played grew up playing at Crenshaw Christian Center
and all that, And then my dad was more of
a road traveled musician who worked with many people like
Jody Wattley. Again, I was every you know, As I

(18:17):
get older, I just, you know, sometimes I don't remember
every last thing. But I know my dad was a
very working musician and then also kind of has been
working at Disneyland for the majority of my life. Yeah,
Pops is a real He's a g man. Really, he
is a g I'll never forget the day he got
the job working at Disneyland.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
That was a as a kid.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
It's like, I don't have too many core memories because
it's all washed over and all the things that we're
talking about, But I do remember seeing my dad in
a in a grass skirt playing in the Lion King
Parade or it was one of the it was like, it's.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
A core memory. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a
big deal.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
I remember he was blushing, he was trying to play
and he was playing.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
He was playing Jim Bay.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Really yeah, yeah, he was playing Jim Bay and he
was walking down and he was like you saw us,
like waving and stuff, and he's like, okay, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
I'll never forget it saved our lives, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
So would you often go to Disneyland like Rucini? Yeah,
like this explains everything. Yeah, Like I used to hang
out access to Disneyland this much. Then that means I
would hang out in Tomorrowland.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
I would hang out in tomorrow Land and play video
games and go see Captain the Yoh like I would.
Just there was a small window because right as a kid,
that's when all this stuff started happening, like right, which
we you know, here we go, you know, God bless
his heart. But I remember, I remember just going and
being like I want to get on any right, let
me just go hang out in the arcade. It was

(19:41):
like Beavis and butt heead, you know, like Zach and Cody,
but not no camera.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
What's the age difference between you and your brother?

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Two years?

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Okay, the older brother, and then there's ten is ten
the other way, so Jamial is ten years younger and
Ronald is two years older.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Ronald of course is monster drummer and you're young. What
does he play?

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Pianist? Keyboards and piano. He used to play accordion. Yeah,
my little brother used to play accordion.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
So he's instantly gonna like, how come this hasn't happened yet.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Maybe it's my fault. I need I need to go
ahead and get him that accordion. I'm like, bro, there's
not too many black dudes that play accordion, Bro, you
need to lock in.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Oh my god to do that. One of my most
treasure moments at the Tonight Show is us teaching speaking
of which I think when doom passed or I'm forgetting
when we did this, but we made where Al Jankovic
learn accordion. Yeah, and we did it on the Tonight Show.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
It's for the culture, bro, like it's jamil I'm saying, bro, like,
pick the accordion back.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, dude, oh my god, I will use him instantly.
Look in Brazilian music, Savuka.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Is it's important, man, monster Like imagine like keeping that
thing on you, you like, like, oh, what's pop it?

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Oh? Hold on? Let me just are y'all jamming right now?
Hold on?

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Coming from you guys? Lineage that would make absolute sense
to me.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Do you remember your first concert ever? Yes?

Speaker 2 (21:24):
I do, I think I do.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Who was it?

Speaker 3 (21:26):
It was Chucky Booker and Janet Jackson on the Rhythm
Nation tour and I wore a Ghostbusters outfit and I
remember Jane rubbing her booty and my mom trying to
cover my eyes.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
What.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
I never forgot that And that was the day I
fell in love with the tune Turned away too.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
That was my that's still my jents to this date.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
That does inform Yes, plane, if you were born twenty
years earlier, I can see those are your court structures.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
I jam chucky.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
See the novice would just say like, oh, George Duke,
George Duke example all day now, I.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
See is deep in the DNA.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You know. It's just when's the first time that you
got on a stage to perform for an audience, your
first audience, your first performance.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
First performance.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
That's a good question because there's again I don't know
if it's uh, you know, when you're growing up in church.
I don't know if that's I would consider that performing
for me because it's like I would always like to
consider the first performance the first time somebody paid me,
because everything else is just like everything else is like
what's your backup plan?

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Well, I mean like, okay, so I don't count church either,
and I don't count playing with my dad.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
Even That's what I'm saying, because it's like, it's not
it's it's part of the so the frech non family lineage,
non spiritual community gathering, something that you yourself created or
you got hired for.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Hmmm, like there were no bands in the school that
mister Andrews organized, you guys at or.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yes there was, and again I really think about this.
I know Fernando Pullam, who was also another one of
the music educators in Los Angeles, is of great importance
that you know, with the programming and stuff like that
for kids and music. But at the time that we
grew up to meet the Terraces, Ronalds, the Kumasies, we
had a lot of like care or a lot of
like like the like Nissan and the the Loniest Monk Institute.

(23:27):
They would come together, the Playboy Jazz Institution, they would
come together and find things and have like this. Mister
Andrews had a band called Multi School Jazz Band, and
it was like if you could play, it's not about
how well, it's like if you can play, bring bring
your kids here to.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Lock High School. You had to drive the Lock High School, which.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Was definitely like a challenge if you if you come
come through, if you dare after school, you know, hey man,
it's it's But at the same time, driving down Say
Street again, those friendships and the people that we meet
there are still our lifetime.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Go to the sto you know.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay, So the musicians that I grew up with. And
here's the thing that most people can't not fathom or whatever.
But I mean there's a period where I will say,
if you are a teenager or in your mid twenties,
especially in the sixties, and then you had this debaucherous

(24:27):
hedonism seventies sort of pushback existence, like everything that all
the ideas of the sixties just sort of whittled away,
and then people just went batshit crazy in the seventies.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
But here's the thing, though, you know, starting with like
Ronald Reagan's America, like the original one point o version
of Make America Great Again, suddenly turned this crazy deluge
of just conservatism, and so I kind of grew up
like my parents were super hip. Yeah, but then around

(25:03):
eighty one, suddenly we're a Christian household and you can't
listen to secular music. Yeah, I have prince punishments all
the time.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Prince punishments. That's crazy. So I mean he was in
his draws though.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, But I was like, the education was worth getting
my ass enrichment, yeah, exactly. However, I will say that
a lot of my I will say ninety five percent
of my music community suddenly had no references, Like I
defiantly listened to Prince so I can get that musical education,
whereas the closest they might listen to Stevie Wonder, but

(25:40):
most of the time they're listening to commissioned.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, and commissions and transfer commission Yeah. Like but Amy Grant, right, yeah,
you know, look, look knowing, No.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
My whole point is because I grew up in a
household knowing what bands were and who the idol That
stuff just whittled out in the eighties and by the
nineties is almost like nonexistent. If he's preparing you to
be musicians, who are you, guys looking up to when

(26:14):
all that's left is Tony Tony Tony and.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Men conditions and condition.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
By the time I got a record deal, there was
like seven bands left, right, So who are you idolizing?
Like I see myself in that? Or is this how
you wind up in suicidal tendencies?

Speaker 3 (26:29):
This is man that No, that moment, that what you're
saying right now, that's a real thing. I felt like
in a way, we had to feed off of each other, gotcha,
So growing up and realizing like I mean, it's like
it was almost like the movie Kids.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
It was kind of like we made our own rule.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Goddamn.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah. We would be outside me.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Me, me, Kamasi, Austin Peralta, like Zane Musa, like Ryan Porter,
Ronald we would just be.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
We would be doing whatever felt right to us.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
There's that and then the reality of there's this big
gap in bridge that doesn't exist that you're talking about
that nobody walked us across. But like growing up with
Reggie Andrews and my father and my mom who it
wasn't all just like Christian music. Growing up, it was
like we were listening to Tony Williams in Stanley Clark
and George Duke and I'm sorry, but that's what we

(27:27):
were listening to. There was no mistaking where to go.
So like I would be surprised growing up, even as
we're talking about this gap between like the bands and
all these things like this and then what the eighties
were into the nineties, there was like I would be
surprised because even for me, like growing up with the
household full of drummers, the stuff like just using like

(27:49):
like using Tony Williams as an example, the amount of
my friends that didn't know who Tony Williams was growing up.
It was almost like me and my brother or my
brothers were speaking like an alienanguage a lot of time.
And it's like if growing up with Miles and Tony
and John McLoughlin and and Alan Holsworth as preference, that
wasn't It was mostly a lot of gospel musicians that

(28:11):
were like inspiring more musicians growing up again, which is
where a lot of it would come out of. But
we were like we knew everything from the Manhattan Transfer
to John McLoughlin. There was no and then and then
and then you got Reggie Andrews being like, it's what
it's what you make it. Mister Andrews taught us it's
what you make it. So we would be outside. We

(28:32):
would like Kamasi got Kamasi got a Mustang like it
was like a seventy six months like not not.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
A good one, like one of the ones that have
break down.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
If we would have hit it, even getting rear ended,
we all would have been buried in the car. It
was like we had the drums and then the upright
bass and the Kamasi with the saxophones.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
I'd be in the.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
Back fit like a jinger piece and because Ronald always
had the front seat, so I'll be wrapped around the
bass drum in the bass and we would get to
the gig like man, they gonna pay us, and we also,
okay eat and they'd be like, man, this was This
was one of the joys of growing up, because you know,
people would hire us to do stuff and it'd be
funny as hell because we get to somebody's thing. You

(29:09):
know people, you know, people do the thing where they
hold the phone up and request something from the DJ
and even shut your answer.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
People will walk up.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
And be like, hey, hey, making y'all play some of Yeah,
making y'all play some I don't know. It's like, you know,
play some vibe music and COMMASI be like yeah yeah,
and you turn to us and be like, you're gonna
take play the message. Next step giant steps right and
like what you said you want you wanted to hear
some some prints? Okay, hold on, I'll be right, yeah,

(29:37):
I'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Just full till were you proficient in the fake book?

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh yeah, that's what we lived our lives by growing up.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
I think I explained this some previous episodes. If you're
learning to play jazz, we refer to the we refer
to the fake book is basically the Wikipedia of probably
the five hundred as standards that you have to know.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
You just got to know autumn leaves and it's just chords.
So and if you don't, this is the book. This
is the You're going to make it easy for every.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Jazz song you need to know before you even call
yourself a jazz musician. You called it fake book, which
was the opposite of I guess there's a real book counterpart.
But there were better there was better songs in the
fake book. R Yeah, yeah, I got that. Wait, first
of all, how did the bass call you? Why did
you choose the bass.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Against the bass gets no attention?

Speaker 3 (30:29):
It's not supposed to or something, right, But yeah, I
mean unless you're Charles Mingus and you punch somebody and
you know, I don't know, you know you got you got.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Like there's a slippery slope for said bass players.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Besides Larry Graham, like I really don't know. I mean
maybe Raphael, but even that, Rafael's usually one third of
another entity. Yeah, Like you don't see you know the
saxophone is supposed to be the yeah or the guitar.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
I always said the horn player line is funny for
me because it's like you got two modes with horn player.
It's like, if you not it's this is I mean,
no offense to anybody, but I always say it's the
line between Kenny g and Kenny Garrett.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Do you know what his email is? What's his Ny
Garrett's email? What's Oh I can't see it? Yeah, yeah,
I don't want to dox you. Well, I guess old
people are embarrassed and having a certain three letters after Yeah,
but it's his is no, no, no, no, you see it?

Speaker 2 (31:27):
You see it?

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yes, so yeah, he used to love let me know.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, like you know, like Tim Capello, the guy from
the Lost Boys movie where he had his shirt off
with the saxophone that used to like.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Haunt that haunted me. Yes, that was I mean the
song again. I love the Lost Boys. I love the song.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
But I remember I'll being like, man, playing saxophone with
your shirt off is crazy work. And then I got
Kamasi and we were on the other side listening to
Ordain at Coleman and and you know what I'm saying,
like and Coltrane and all this and Sonny Rollins and
like you know, and I'm sitting here like a.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Kids into free jazz.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Oh, we were going turbo as kids.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
Me.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Oh my god, seriously, like Pharaoh Sanders. We were on
the other side of the spectrum. And literally and figuratively,
Camassi we would just he would do, he would be
at school, and then afterwards we play a little bit
of PlayStation. But the rest of the night we were
running the streets, playing these standards and playing original tunes.
And again, I am so grateful for the years that

(32:26):
we spent doing that, you know, like the part where
we got to grow together. Because I'm looking at the
landscape of things now. Everything it doesn't go anywhere, it
just changes shape. Sometimes I look at it and I
look at the type of men that we've become, and
I go wow. And I look to the generations underneath us,
and it feels like they were just throwing off a
cliff when it comes to stuff in that. But then
at the same time, I go, as it should be,

(32:48):
because you have to make it yours. Whatever it is,
if you that's what it is for the next generations,
you just make it yours. Because we had no rules
to how we would show.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Up, all right, So you know, I went to school
with McBride, Yeah, Christian mcbriden and Kurt Rosenwinkle, and that
was my bloods and crips hey, because in order to
get Christian's respect you had to know straight jazz. But
then Rosenwinkle is also feeding you Captain beef Hart and

(33:21):
Mount of Vishu orchestra and stuff, and then on that
I'm cheating on both of them with Tariq.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
But the thing was is just that I never could
find cats that look like me that were really into
free jazz. Like I entered Miles Davis via Bitches brew right,
and then went backwards because I belonged to Columbia House
And I'm really dating myself with all these references, but
you know, getting its entire disc thing. But I just

(33:47):
never had cats to play free jazz with them, because
the thing was like, well, you learned the basics and
the foundation first, then you go to free jazz.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
But I never had it shows up. How it shows up,
we would be out.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
I just wish, you know, I wish I had that
experience with that, like who are your three base gods?

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Base gods Stanley, Jocko and if I uh in Anthony
Jackson of course.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Okay, the legendary Anthony Jes sir, yes, yes, sir, straight up.
So what is your morning routine? What is the first
thing you do in the first half hour of your day.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
I try not to cry, and then I try to
like not pick my I mean I try not to
pick my phone up. And then the first half hour
is like it's really jolting for me because it almost
feels like somebody threw cold water on me.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
So in that thirty minutes, if I'm not careful, how.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Long does it take you to not grab the Because
the thing is I wake up feeling great, yeah, and
then the second I want to feel like it's twenty
twenty six. Yeah, I picked the phone up. Sometimes the
evidence sort yeah, oh we're living in hell right now.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Out the gate that I feel with letting, like letting
two hours go by, yeah and bliss. Yeah, is like
I'm doing it as a daily practice, like do not
pick your phone up till ten.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
But of course, like yeah, well for you though, like
for me, Like for me, I have my little routine.
I love to go get my little coffee and read
some comics.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
You know.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
I trained boxing, okay, as often as possible, So everything
is always me. It's kind of leading up to that
for me until there's after. So there's before and then
there's after working out for me, and it's like, I
don't know, I feel like again. I didn't realize we
were crazy in LA until maybe just the last.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Couple of years.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Somebody had to bring it to my attention. She was like,
you do know you're crazy right now? I was like,
is this why you ended?

Speaker 1 (35:44):
All right? One of the one of the greatest song
endings of all time? Okay, initially I gave this award
to Prince's Dinner with Dolors because I love the line
no more, that's the end and the song stops. But
when you said you know, I'm from Los Angeles, right,

(36:04):
it's one thing. If it just cut off there, I
would have been like, oh, that's clever. It had been
another thing if the laugh that ensued afterwards was like
in studio banter. But the fact that you mixed it
and you know, put the effect on the laugh that
made me listen to that song like ten times over

(36:24):
just to analyze everything about it. How self aware of
you and I'm assuming that all of your therapy talk
in your records is real life the experiences.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
I do need another therapist to be honest.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Hey, dog, I have three of them right now at
the moment, so there's no I'm saying I'm going full
in on therapy.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
I have three, man, so I'm about to about to
be right behind you. Help help, let's help, please help.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
When did you become self aware that you need to
live your authentic life? Because I was told to hide this.
I think I look at you kind of with envy
because the answer for me was like hide, don't go
outside because you'll get picked on, you'll get bullied.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
And then we were getting shot at for sure, but.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
He was staying inside. You would get shot at it
even if he was inside in La like that's that's
one of the reasons why we moved from Compton though,
you know, like.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
My dad, the Compton thing was real.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
It was to have made.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
It's like, yeah, can I ask what was this straw
that broke the camel's back?

Speaker 3 (37:32):
That it was definitely somebody shooting at my dad on
the porch from across the street eight.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Just for fun or probably high off a showroom or something.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Oh god, And when my dad tells me because it's like,
you know, again, growing up in that area, you would
you could fall victim to it no matter. At any point.
If you asked Vince Staples, he would tell you the
same thing. Growing up in LA in this certain area.
It doesn't mean that you it's always adjacent. It's right here.
It's right here. It doesn't mean you got to get
touched by it, but it's still right here.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
You can hit you it anymore.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, And my dad tells me, because I was probably
a baby when it happened, but he was. I was like,
I didn't understand why we moved so much, you know,
a younger, he told me, And it stuck maybe twenty
years later or so where he was like, yeah, man,
I was on the porch and all I saw was
like dust, you know, like a dust and you see dust.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
And my dad said he could see it.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
He could see a dude in the distance by the
grocery store, just like aiming at him on the porch.
And I think that that was the straw that literally
and figuratively broke the camel's back.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
So yeah, it did.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Like growing up in that area was But at the
same time, my high school homecomings and all our games
used to get shot up.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
So this was not weird to me.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
I never thought I see the day where most of
the humor I have is there's at least twenty tragic
stories that would have paralized any other human being. Yeah,
but now if I were seeing up comed like, I'd
be the king of comedy.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
The line that you're talking about that existed where it
was like, how did I know to just be? If
I showed you a picture of my mom, you know, like,
I'm starting to realize more and more, no matter what
the case is. My mom was like my mom was like,
it don't matter be who you are. And I see
it and I'm like looking at her out and I'm like,
you know, you have the years with your mama, whoop
your ass and you'd be like, you did this to me,

(39:21):
And it's like, no, I did this to myself. After this,
after you can acknowledge that you then it's your turn
to realize that it's you doing this to yourself at
this point, you know. So I'm looking at my mom
and me in my older age, and I look at
her and I'm like, my mom is maybe the coolest person.
I'm like, I see why my dad married her, Like
my mom. I get everything from my mom. I get
my sense of style from my mom. I get my

(39:42):
inability to see, my ability to see. I get all
of it from my mom. And even when it comes
to the part where like I make the joke about
that's the last time I wore a suit, my mom
believed who I was the whole time.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
She would see me drawing. She didn't question it.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
So when you said I never want to wear a
suit again, that.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Was my mom did. She was like, we'll do what
you gotta do.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
No, damn, this is the generational thing, man, because you
were given agency.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, mister Andrews, and my parents were like.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
You were respected.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Like what do you think, Oh, I wasn't respected. Well,
I still got shot at That's what I'm saying. Like
I was doing as Kamasi. He'd be like Steve.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
They thought.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
They used to call me snoopy because it was like
I couldn't It was almost very something. I used to
look like a girl when I was a kid. I
used to get like mistaken for a girl when I
was a kid. Those used to be absolute horror stories
and like trauma. Right. It would be like even the
way I dressed, mister Andrews the way I would get
picked on all the time. I just didn't care. It
was like some pooty tang level. Like I was crashed

(40:42):
out on a rival. So there's a part where you
could do your worst. I'd be like, I do not care, Bro,
We're gonna die. I'm like you probably before me because
I got at least I got on Mickey Mouse here
so they won't shoot the mouse.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
But oh my god, have you ever met the cats
from Fishblone? And I believe they weren't at your high school.

(41:18):
But yeah, that's almost like the same existence with their
family seven weirdos like oh yeah made a pack to
oh yeah stick together? Wow you unpacked so much with that.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
That's this real. It's my parents brother, Yeah, that's real.
My brother used to get bullied all the time.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Older brother. He would get picked on. People would steal
his stick bag. Yeah, like people would take his hand.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
That's blasphemous.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
There's a I was that little brother, like get your
hands off my brother and just jump on you and
kill you.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I was definitely that kid.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
You'd have to pull me if I saw you touch
my brother, I would you'd have to pull me off.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
If you with a spatula. I would be on you
like a badger.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
But it's also because I knew where I subconsciously, I
think that somewhere between it was almost like growing up.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
If I had to describe what it felt like.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
When I can think about it cinematically, somewhere between Hollywood shuffle,
don't be a menace to South Central and literally menace
to society. For me, that's what my memory of said.
Things of this nature were somewhere in between because I
could see the line. I think the Waynes Brothers made
it clear to be able to see it. So I
saw the joke when I saw the when I saw that,

(42:26):
when I saw Robert Townsend, when I saw the Waynes Brothers,
I was like, oh, yeah, this is a stick. I
was like, oh, yeah, you're gonna it was like okay.
I would be did we be you know, it would exist.
You'd be like, where are you from?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Homie? Did be like this?

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Uh, go ahead and kill me bro I don't even
I don't even know. I was like, do you know
where you're from? That would be in the back of
my mind. I wouldn't ask that.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
I was like, yeah, no. But but if walking.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Up on me and talking to me. I would imagine
you couldn't tell what was going on. I would be
talking about screwdrivers and hammers and like PlayStation and so
you would try to be banging on me, and i'ld
be sitting there looking off into space, and I'd be like,
I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
I probably sounded like snoopy. That's what I was told
when I was younger.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
So my thing is I had to get out Hooker Crook.
And I don't know how I willed myself out of
West Philly stories too. Yeah, it's I willed myself out
of it. But I mean, and I will admit, like
when we finally moved to Europe, that was the first

(43:25):
time where I could like wow, like wow, I made it.
And then the fear of I gotta do what I
gotta do to never go back to West Philly, which
is why this is one of ten jobs, Like I'm
never going back to West Philly. But in my mind
it's always like, Okay, I'll take this job, and I'll
write this book and I'll do this. Ain't for you, though,

(43:47):
did you ever have a moment where, well, it almost
sounds like you had no fear of whatever was going
to happen to you, or it was just so normal
that it's like, hey, it is, that's what it is.
But I mean, did you ever have a moment where
you actually felt like, Okay, that chapter of my life

(44:09):
is now two blocks behind me in the rear view mirror.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Or I think that there was so many things to
focus on that there's a part of me that couldn't
I couldn't even think for the most part, Like I
mean jokingly, it was kind of like, so I got
to learn to read music, then I gotta wear a suit,
then I gotta show up, and then I gotta like
keep my art book with me, and then I gotta
go to church after and then and then I got

(44:33):
to like have homework done, and then I gotta go
on tour with you know.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
And like as a part of me where I was.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Like, I don't think at any point I could ever see,
I was like I didn't even know what death was.
I was just kind of like, all right, I guess
I wasn't thinking so much. I think there's a part
where I was like I wasn't aware of the fear,
if that's a better way to put it. So like
I think I was just more so just kind of
like observant of things.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
All right, So I pay thousands of dollars to learn
how to live in the present, and you know, and
I maintained the gift of the first pandemic. This is
the second pandemic, by the way, we full in it. Right,
So the first pandemic, the gift was Okay, I got
to get some therapy. I got a bunch of issues
I've been holding on to you. I can't get a

(45:19):
proper relationship or a relationship with myself or anything. And
so I had to do a lot of cleanup for
three years to our pandemic. Now I figured out the
only way I'm really going to survive this period that
we're in with my brand intact is literally this day,

(45:39):
this day, every great day, all right, tomorrow, I'm gonna
say the same thing this day. Yeah, I almost feel
like you're I think your parents instilled in you the
idea of living in the present.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
I'm actually going to this may this made trip out
of it. It was actually Erica. That's yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I can see that.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
That was Erica that taught me that you're right.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
I can see that the younger me was just like
my art book was like another world for me. You know,
playing with my friends was like the best thing ever.
But it was on meeting Erica that for me was
like right here, this is where you're at, this is
this is you can always do this.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
It was heard that taught me right here. Wow yeah
okay Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Have you ever had a regular job?

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Eh? No, I think working at a comic store is
considered regular either.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I was like, are you big?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
You're a big I'm a comic.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
So do you like comics? No? Like, how bad is
your collection?

Speaker 2 (46:46):
This crash out worthy? It's where somebody being like, you need.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Help, but what's your most valuable one?

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Most valuable comic?

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Like, are you a I gotta get Edition one? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:58):
I'm definitely that guy.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Okay from me at this moment in life again, you know,
like you know, I was, I look at Marvel and
DC like it's like bloods and crips.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
There's a part where my dad, what side are you on?
I am through and through Marvel, kid, Let's keep let's
be clear about that one.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Marvel the Bullpen crash out level insanity from the forties,
I go less go. You know why Batman sticks around
two because that's like crash out level like depression. Like
if you ever watched those early Batman's and you go like,
what was Batman? It was like that was full blown autism,
Like that was yes, yes, you just goes see he's
still here. Yes, it's like, oh, they made him rich later,

(47:34):
way later. But it was like bro was in soup
lines with a sock on his head, like helping the cops,
like there's no such thing, and so like that's why
Batman will always stick to me. But like that's like real,
Like there's there's some realness to Batman. But Marvel, Marvel
for me as a child, was everything and it still
is because it even informed the next generation of comics

(47:55):
where we have the image comics and all this stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
It was Marvel that did that, like it If Marvel didn't,
if Marvel.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Didn't pay Todd McFarlane absolute shite to do everything, if
he didn't stand up and go, who's coming with me
and leave to make image, we wouldn't have this generational
like uh, like, we wouldn't have this fandom like we
do from the sixties, the Silver Rage from the sixties
into where Tom McFarland shows up and leaves and creates
image and all the things that have been from the

(48:23):
newer writers like Trad Moore to Donnie Kates or Ryan Stegman, Like, yeah, no,
I'm a real nerd with this stuff.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
And you know what I mean, Like it's we wouldn't
have that. So it's a I'm sorry, I'm about to
start crashing out.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Probably I want to know this. You know, first I
felt insecure because.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
I do not hide.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
One of my biggest shames in the world is because
people think that I'm that level nerd. Around like maybe
seven years ago, it started being hey, man, I know
you have every record that ever existed, but I got
some of you don't got. And then they'll pull out
this thing and instantly I got to get performative, like no, yo, outside, no,

(49:07):
when I tell you, I know I own eighteen of
like the most like maybe the first words that got
himself printed on paper as a cartoon or some sort
of right, and again people are like, what is he
want for his birthday? Well, he has every record, he
has all the soul drains, right is he in the comics?
And my assistants don't know. Yah, And so I can

(49:30):
say that I have an immaculate, like Ace comic collection.
I have no clue what the hell I have, but
I do know based on the ah, you know what
this is, right dog? Come on, man, what's my name?
Of course I know what it is. Yeah, yeah, And

(49:50):
so that's I I wasn't allowed And that's what I
want to talk to you about, especially with your love
of anime. Yeah. A big part of my turnaround was me.
All right, So the first time I'm just psychedelics. I
watched Fantasia Wow.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
And that's the right way to do it. Actually, that's
the only way to do.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
It, like for real, because there's inspiration, like for a
person that's trying to channel his higher consciousness and all
that stuff like that is and for me, you know,
after watching it seventeen times, I'm like, what else is
out there? And people are like, dude, how are you
not on anime?

Speaker 4 (50:26):
Boy?

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Watches that talk about just your obsession and entry into cartoons, anime, oh, comics?

Speaker 3 (50:37):
What is it?

Speaker 4 (50:38):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
This is your soul train? What soul train is to me?

Speaker 2 (50:41):
This is.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
What is it?

Speaker 3 (50:46):
It just depends on where you're starting from, because there's
a part where I'm genuinely like, you know, there's different
eras of it again when it comes from the sixties
to the seventies to the eighties again with the coming
out of World War Two, where it's like, you know,
Betty Betty Boop at the time was kind of like
more influential character in comics and tunes, and so they
were kind of following suit and trying to like, you know,
appeal to the American audience, you know, which create which
created like wee buu culture or like jet panophile level

(51:07):
otaku kind of stuff like that. But there's a part
where it's also kind of like somewhere along the lines
of between working at a comic store and then growing
up with Kamasi, we were really into that. So there's
a part where it was kind of like, I've my
first experience with the anime was like in maybe I
don't even know what.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
To call it.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
At this point, I would say this is the silver
age of the eighties into the nineties was like the
silver age because now we're kind of living in a
post of it, and a lot of the time the
things that people get excited about about it, it's really
like not worth his weight in gold. I'm gonna just
be honest, because reality is the level of manic depressive
that it would create with the art. If the artist,
if I'm like, if they're not depressed, this's just not
going to be good. I'm sorry, it's just what it is,
just like music. But it's the part where I'm just like,

(51:43):
it just depends on where you're asking that from. And
for me, where it starts is the realization that everything
we watched in the eighties was Japanese animation.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Okay, so once a year I'll allow myself to watch
Tarik's Hot ninety seven free style. Yeah, because especially in
the age of the podcast.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Bro, Yeah, I probably need some like some magnesium. I'm
probably like right on the edge of crashing out and
running into the like.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
No, no, no, no. But here's the thing. I never thought
I get the ideal intellectual explanation of comic history than what.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
You just gave me, like camal t because I'm like, a,
here's the thing, man, It's like I started boxing, is it.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
I'm okay, I'm gonna go slightly rogue. I'm gonna have
another Jamie Lee Curtis moment where I'm gonna do this.
I owe you an apology. No, I owe you an apology. Okay,
so before you know, the twenty twenty thing was me
dealing with a lot of issues. But I was so

(52:53):
socially avoiding and had anxiety about just people in jail.
Animal the way that you were like yo, man, like
let's hang out, let's jam, and the way I would
try to make matrix bullet eye, because I mean there
was a whole other it was you glassper Chris dave

(53:13):
O Man, let's say out, listen, and I would have
so much literally like anxiety, like crazy.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
No.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
But thing was I think I was too, and I
saw that you guys were my squad. But I just
saw y'all it's so technically advanced past me that I
think subconsciously I thought, nah, man, I'm gonna get I'm
gonna get caught like they'll they'll, they'll, they'll find me

(53:42):
out like everyone always lives in this whole, like I'm
gonna be found out as a broad thing.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
And marriages a lot of failed marriages based on.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Find out about me. But is that way, Kama see,
I know Lotus has to be feeling some sort of way.
We have not spoken. We might have said one sentence
to each other and I'm a massive Lotus fan.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Yeah, I like he's like Batman. He is like literally
like Batman.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
But I'm regretting now like I'm and now on my head,
I'm just thinking, like man, like all the enlightenment I
could have had in twenty ten on if I just
texted this motherfucker back when he texted like, I'm now
regretting the friendship we should have had in the last

(54:30):
fifteen years just based on this. Oh man, this is like,
this is our first real conversation even though we see
each other all the time. H And all right, so
this has evolved mere talking. I'm not trying to carjack
the James looking at me like this is about to
turn into open my eagle thing? All right? Who are
the five creatives that are your north Star?

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Five creatives that are my north Star?

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Yes, any any area doesn't have to be musicians.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Okay, definitely Stanley Clark. Definitely Stanley Clark.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
All Right, because I'm from Philly, I can't believe I'm
saying this, Like what era of Stanley Clark is yours?
Because wait, speaking of which, are you Team school Days
or Team Town Team Town?

Speaker 4 (55:18):
Who?

Speaker 1 (55:19):
And it's tea. I know what you mean, it's team Town,
the solo that you have to memorize in order to
get respect.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
I think that any transcribing of Jocko's said knowledge or solos,
it's in the transcribing the solos, it's there's a path
to understanding, to get better, which is why it's so key,
you know what I mean. Like in specifically with Jocko's,
Jocko reminds me of Charlie Parker because of the part

(55:52):
where it's like the phrasing and the types of things
that he would do. It's a vast comprehension of the
chortal structures of things to where it's like it doesn't
have to start in the same place, it doesn't have
to start all these things, these tropes that we've come to.
Even if you know, like like even where Frank Zappa said,
you know, there's no such thing. You're not improvising, you know,
it's like it's okay, Frank Beethoven, like all right, all right,

(56:13):
we all suck, thank you, But there's a part where
it's like Jocko's Like one of my favorite solos other
than teen Town, actually is on Ursula Dudziak's album, where
him and Michael Urbaniac in Erzla Dudziak, who's married to
Michael Urbaniac. I'm pretty sure they're still married. It's his
solo in the beginning of Roxanna. For me, it's not
teen Town was just iconic, but his solo in the

(56:34):
beginning of Roxanna, on on, on.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
On, I gotta go back to this, Okay.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
It's this moment, and there's a story.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
I think there's always even the story of him, like
the way he would read and how he would turn
papers upside down and read the stuff he was just like,
you know, this is one of those moments and it's.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Like, I never know you could do that.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Yeah, Jocko was full tilt. But if you're saying, if
you're asking me like teen Town versus A school days, Yeah, Stanley.
Stanley to me, in all his knowledge and everything that
he was bringing into his own music is unmatched. It's
unmatched again, from the Pharaoh Sanders years to the Return

(57:11):
Forever years. This man is carrying the legacy of jazz
on his back with Tony Williams and you know what
I'm saying and spearheading it, yes, alongside the other ones
that we love. But the reality is Stanley to me
Jocko's first album for Me, it has an air of
this if you're putting it against those two, which are
kind of like they're two different eras of their creative

(57:33):
process and who they are. School Days for me versus
Weather Reports, Team Town to me, Oh my god, I'm
Stanley all day. And there's the reason why is because
everything from the personnel to how Stanley presented himself in
this moment, there was no guessing what type of artist

(57:56):
Stanley was, you know, like the part where Jocko ended
his solo album and him playing piano, you were.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Left to be like, what the hell, what is this?

Speaker 1 (58:06):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (58:07):
And it's like it gave way to so many other things.
But Stanley Stanley was like, I think that life is
just a game. Changed my life. Like after there's me
before hearing life is just a game. There's me my
mom paying me twenty dollars to learn Stanley Clark solo really,
and then there's me realizing it's him singing what he's saying,

(58:28):
and like the whole span of the album, him doing
this concerto at the end of the album, Life is
just a game. It just it still haunts me to
this day that helicopter sound at the end of the song.
I can It's like I can see myself almost like
it's a straight line to my I don't have.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
My memory is really blurry and fuzzy.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
You're totally making me recontextualize, like.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Stanley's the man. He is the man.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
One of the coolest moments I ever saw Prince was
in concert, and I believe Stanley was in the audience.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
That had to be funny.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
He got on bass and they did school days verbatim.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I think I saw footage of this, did you posts?

Speaker 1 (59:22):
I might have, but he did it verbatim, And that's
the first time I said, oh, so Prince does no
ventral quism, because there's a thing where I'd ask him,
like he would do a cover song but then not
learn the lyrics. Yeah, And I think that was just
an exercise for him to not be too derivative of
someone's things, but just let it inspire enough to get

(59:44):
into it and I do my own thing. But when
he did it note for note, I was like, oh, okay,
so you can show me that you've proven Okay, I
got that speak Wait, speaking of bass, the last time
we played you grabbed a four string and I'd never
you know, I'm thinking, oh, any bass player can get

(01:00:07):
on any acts and bring the magic up. What is
the muscle memory? Like when you don't have the two
extra strings on the Berserker to go to Well, because
I saw you literally thinking yeah, or trying to go
back to Well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
It's in a way, it's like, again, this is all
it's a matter of knowing the neck to a major degree.
So there's a part of it where I'm just kind
of like, I think knowing the neck in this manner,
it's just it's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Almost it's I literally it's like you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Don't ever not know those four strings, you know, so
even knowing the different places that the octaves exist where
you know, it's like, but it's always about a lot
of the time those two other strings just offer a
different type of facility that's a bit more stated than
just a simple line on the tymple baseline. So a
lot of time, it's more so like it's pretty fun
for me, like because I already know somebody's usually like, oh, yeah,

(01:00:55):
here's a real challenge of four string, and it's like, oh,
it's a real challenge of forestring.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
You know, it's like it's a part to me.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
That's like whatever, whatever works, buddy, you know what I mean,
Like cause it's like going into the years of the
records of me playing on for a string.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I don't even have to you know, I can.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Is there a smaller bodied acts that can accommodate a
six string or do you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I would never wish that on anybody that's that would
be like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
But how's your upper strength? Because like I know now,
Bootsy Collins, yeah, doesn't play his bass for that very reason.
He's just like, my back has killing me, and I
never knew that. You guys have to deal.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
With I'm going to I'm like, I'm going out on them.
I'm dying on this hill. Let let it disintegrate my back.
Bro I'm ready for me. I just knew, like it
doesn't matter. I'm gonna do that. I will do that
till my dying day, Like in the manner in which
I saw, you know, like when we watched Ozzie in
this final performance where he's like, you're gonna have to
pry me from this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
It's like the reality is a lot of the time,
it's about what it is to you, and it's what
it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
It's like some Bruce Lee stuff. It's like, it is
what you say it is.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
I don't go around telling people I've been in pain
the whole time playing my hands hurt. That's just what
comes with it, and it only hurts when you stop.
When you lose a trusted collaboratory.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
How do you cope through that? Because I happen to
see you, like the night before that, I knew D'Angel
was going to you, know, so I was like, really
my feelings and I know that you you want on
a record a lot talking about like Max passing and
how that affect your life and everything, and like I again,
I so wanted to come up to you to be like,

(01:02:32):
how do you cope with the shit? Because I didn't
want to get to a place where I like start
and I don't mean self harming like whatever. I mean
like me, I could binge it or whatever, like anything
that puts me in danger. How did like, how did
you allow yourself to have that grief as far as
like not affecting your creativity or oh it did it

(01:02:53):
affect your creativity?

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Oh man?

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
Yeah, losing Mac was very complicated, very complicated to navigate,
thank God, I had Flying Lotus there with me in
that moment, because it's like he kept me moving forward
until we both until we both till fail. It was
like we were working on the again. This was it

(01:03:19):
was very weirdly like it became this dark pit of
a hole in my life that was like it was
just like it felt like, uh, I've had a few
moments with you know, like from Austin to Meg to
you know, Zaane, to my few friends that were like

(01:03:39):
that crossed over in this manner, But this moment was
so deafening. And it wasn't just because like it was
there was my Mac that was dying, and then it
was the world's Mac that was dying, you know. I
mean there's a part where I uh, for a long time,
if I had to compare it to something, it was
like somebody through a grid made next to me and

(01:04:01):
I couldn't see straight for years and still I'm still
you know, you go, it goes in waves.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
How hard was it to release this song into the
world and not hang on to it for like yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
The reason why this felt like such the right thing
to do with this is because of what it did
for me when I would hear it, I think that
in so many places that the trauma.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Could like rest, which it does.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
There's a part where when I heard this song, it's
like the thing where we were talking about Stanley Clark
with life is just a game. When I hear this song,
I can only see the good that we did. I
can only see the person he really was. I would
never cry hearing this. That song, to me is the Mac.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
That I knew outside she knows too much.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Yeah, Like that was like I see that and the
everything from his whimsical silliness and even the message of it,
and like knowing the things around and what this was
for us, and like I'd see it and I would
see the one time I would wear a suit. We
always joked about the video. We would always be like, man,
how are we gonna shoot this video? And I was like,

(01:05:14):
you know, we get some get some ultra Goliath glasses
with like some tuxedos with the frilly shirts, and you
do the guitar and I got the bass, and you know,
we just you know, being like you know, somewhere between
David Ruffin and the Temptations and just like you know,
the It was really like this thing where we were like,
oh man, this is like this was like this Mac again.

(01:05:35):
I always I've compared him to like a one man
rat pack, you know what I mean, Like he was
the embodiment of cool with this stuff. So even in
those in this moment, for me, I only saw me
and him in the suits with the glasses, with the
bass and the guitar, just talking shit, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Well, I thank you and I apologize for this long
overdue conversation. Oh man, I'm a massive, massive, massive fan
of your work, so.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Quest, I've been in this my whole life. I've been
a fan of your work.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
Well, I thank you for that, man, and hopefully this
will be the first of many conversations. I'm man Undercat,
thank you. This was the Quest Love Show, Thundercat our guest,
and uh we'll see you on the next go round,
all right, see you. Quest Love Show is hosted by

(01:06:28):
Me amir guest Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean
g Brian Calhan and Me. Produced by Britney Benjamin and
Jake Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown, edited by
Alex Conroth. iHeart Video support by Mark Canton Logos Graphics

(01:06:52):
and animation by Nick Paloe, additional support by Lance Coleman,
Special Things to Kathy, Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel.
Please subscribe, rate, review, and share The Quest Loup Show
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(01:07:18):
of QLs episodes, including the Quest Loup Supreme Shows, and
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