March 18, 2025 • 39 mins
Who saw Jack Draper and Mirra Andreeva coming as Indian Wells champs? Not us—but look out, Rennae is calling it now: Wimbledon 2025 champs. We break down the intriguing matches in California and look forward to the second half of the Sunshine Double: Miami. Rennae is on the scene and reports back from who's looking good and who needs a win.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
This podcast is supported by B and P Party Bar
as part of their global commitment to tennis.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
At all levels.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
BNP Party Bar is the world's leading tennis sponsor and
the title sponsor of the B and P Party Bar Open.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Renee thub At Tennis Podcast.
I am on the road in Miami. Caitlin is at
home in New York, and we have so much to
talk about. Oh my god, Indivian, Wells, Mira andriv But
before we get to that, Caitlyn, you went to space
last week.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I have returned from Space the Final Frontier. Yeah. I
have to say, Isaac, my kid's Space camp. It was amazing.
Any parents out there who have a nurse highly recommend.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Although you have to.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Reference to the fact that the hotel is not exactly
like a five star hotel.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
It isn't even a hotel at all. It's a habitat.
It has no windows or blankets. The showers are rough,
and you know, conditions are less than ideal, but as
they would be in space. You don't even get to
take a shower in space. They use baby wipes. I learned,
which you know, those people who got stranded on the
space station for eight and a half extra months. They
(01:33):
were expecting hot showers and instead they got baby wipes,
So you know, not everything's easy in space forne He
had a lot of complaints about the food. My kid
had a lot of complaints about the rustic accommodations. But
also we did amazing things and went on moonwalks and
did missions and zero gravity training. So you know, this
is just a day in the life of a parent,
(01:54):
kind of similar to the mode you are in as
a coach. Do you feel like coaching and parenting is
probably kind of somewhat related. I got to see you
in action last week and it emails coaching, Alan Perez.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Coaching is a lot like parenting because you have this
you have to walk a fine line, as you know, right,
so you know, you want to teach your kid certain things, right,
You want to teach them certain things and certain habits
and trying to break other habits and things like that,
and sometimes you don't want to go too far. You
don't want to like break their spirit, but you also
(02:27):
don't want them to get away with too much. So
there's like that balance of like how much can you
tell them, how much can you keep reinforcing it right.
If they keep doing the same mistake, do you keep
harping on it or do you harp on it once
every five minutes or once every five seconds. So there's
that really unique balance with coaching, as I think it
is with parenting as well. How far do you go?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I was super impressed and enjoyed greatly. I've seen you
coach plenty of times, but it was really cool to
see Ellen Perez, who was playing with Yelena Ostapenko. They
had a pretty good run in Indian Wells. I thought
they came through some really intense matches, and it was
cool to see a player I hadn't paid very much
(03:11):
attention to, candidly, who you know, was sort of fun
and dynamic and had a good attitude, and you know,
it was nice to sit with you in sam Stosa
and sweat in the California sunshine, work on my tan
and get to watch some great tennis, which is why,
of course we love BNP probably about Open so much
because it's like, honestly, just the most fun. But I
have to say this is a great swing because it
(03:33):
brings us, obviously from Indian Wells to Miami, which I
want to talk to you about. But first, shall we
recap what a great Indian Wells that was? What a
great Indian Wells. I thought it was a phenomenal addition
to the tournament.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and if you had said to me, the winner
of these events are going to be Mira Andreva and
Jack Draper, I probably would have said, a It's possible, certainly,
Mirror after coming off of you know, her victory and
in the Middle East with tons of confidence, but still
(04:09):
to back go back to back is very, very difficult
for anybody, and particularly someone so young. So I would
have said maybe Mirror, but tough Jack certainly possible. I
don't know if he can close it out kind of thing.
So to actually see them both get through and when
you know, the biggest titles of their career, I know
(04:29):
Mirror just wanted to buy and but but this, this
is different. This is on another level in Ian Welles
and the way that she did it was just phenomenal.
To beat the players that she beat, and Jack to
beat the players he beat. So I don't know, what
do you What were your thoughts? What were your favorite
matches that you that you saw? You you saw a
lot of tennis as well.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Mirror and Dreva Iger Schmantek was a masterclass uh in strategy,
patient composure. I was so impressed with me Andreva, who
I agree, even though she just won last week or
the week leading up to the tournament in the Middle East,
Like yeah, I mean, winning this tournament on American soil
(05:12):
in really what is the biggest Master's one thousand level
tournament was pretty spectacular. Doing it to beat Eager and
Arena Seblanca in the final, that's a feat. It is
quite a feat. You know, obviously Arena is the defending champion.
This is just like a pretty amazing run from this.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Our buddy Boschen Function I think, is the one that
put a tweet out that's basically she just did the
same thing Madison Keys did to beat the same players.
So you know, the parody. The great thing is the parody.
Sometimes everyone's like, oh, yeah, these random winners. You know
that women's tennis is you know, there's no real leader
(05:58):
and all that sort of stuff. It's like who cares?
Like when you've got these great players coming through every
single week to be all these great players and we
know how good they are, Like Mira Andreva is going
to be a perennial top five player. I believe throughout
her entire career she has you know, she has the hoodspa,
(06:18):
she has the work ethic, she has the joy in
her tennis. You know, she loses a shit from time
to time, which she did in the final, but to
come through the matches that she did the way she
did was incredible, and so obviously you know how I feel.
I've put out a funny tweet about, Oh, I guess
women can coach, you know, referring to clearly referring to
(06:41):
Kashida Martinez and you know, some of the great And
it's funny because being here in Miami, we have a
I walked into the into the ego underneath the arena,
right that's where all the locker rooms are and everything.
And I walked in there and literally the first sign
I saw to my right was men's coaches locker room,
and Caitlin, and I tell you, it was in neon lights.
(07:04):
It was massive. So I looked at my right and
I'm like, Okay, well there's the men's locker room for
the coaches. Now where's the women's you know. So I'm
looking around and I'm looking around and looking for that
Neon sign right and go around the hallway, so you
imagine underneath a massive stadium. So then you see, you know,
women's players' locker room, men's players' locker room. I'm like, okay,
(07:25):
that's there, and where's the women's locker room. Where's our
big Neon lights? And so I said to one of
the women working the tournament who I've known for a
long time, Hey, you know where's the women's coaches locker
because I'm looking for that. And she goes, oh, it's
just down there. You see that little sign that says laundry,
it's over there on the left. So go in that door.
(07:47):
So we are opposite the player's laundry area, right, and
it is the size of a shoe box. I mean
it's not tiny. I've seen worse. I have to say.
Sometimes we women coaches get literally a toilet area to
like go to. So there's like like probably probably about
eight stalls in there and an open shower and one toilet.
(08:10):
And I just walked in and I just died. I
was like, no, women's locker room, big Neon signs up there, No, no, No,
I know there's clearly a lot more men's coaches, but
it's just the irony. And so when I was in
there yesterday, it was quite full actually because and I
realized there's actually a lot more of us than I
realized now, Like I go, Radwanska was in there, Kirsten
(08:33):
Flipkins was in there, Nicole Pratt's in there, I'm in there.
Of course, hit To Martinez is going to be in there. Zinska,
the woman who coaches Costchuker's in there. There's a couple
of the Japanese girls have coaches, women coaches, So it's
getting more and more. So I just want to shout
out to the tournaments. It's time to give us a
bigger locker room. Okay, great, anyway back to my back
(08:56):
to Indian Wealth.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
No, but I think that's a good indicator. And obviously,
you know, coming back to Mira Andreva, you know who
wasn't thrilled to see the positive dynamic, the incredibly thoughtful
coaching success story that this is in the making. Obviously,
it's something that you and I have discussed at length
on this podcast, especially after some of mir Andreva's results
(09:21):
earlier this season. So if you missed a gushing tribute
to Kunshidah as well as Renee's like very insightful description
of how it is that she knows Kenshiitah takes these
players through their you know, off season preparedness routines and
pre match routines. It was really insightful and I think,
you know, obviously hard work pays off, but at the
heart of it is just like a really really nice
(09:43):
dynamic between two people who are working together to achieve
amazing things. And I just want to call out quickly
before we get to the men, which is in a
lot of ways like a little bit more of an
interesting tournament for storylines. The one thing I'll sort of
say on the women's side is I was a little
shocked that Jung Chin Win's season has been so poor.
(10:04):
I wasn't expecting to beat Ego, especially on these slow courts,
but she really kind of faded, uh. And I wonder,
you know, she's a player that I really look forward
to watching. Obviously, these courts are you know, a little
bit to her favor because they're slower. She's having you know,
some struggles and it'll be interesting to see what, you know,
what happens, uh. And I think there's there's some other
(10:27):
players who are was kind of expecting a little bit
more from and uh, you know, not your sublankcaus or fountecs.
But I do wonder, like, what the the separation between
that top five and everybody else is starting to feel
pretty significant. And I'm not sure John chin Win is
in it, but I definitely think you know, Maddie Keys,
despite a pretty flat semi final performance, definitely earned it.
(10:50):
She has great matches. But that was a little bit
of an you know, sometimes people lay an egg and
turn of flat. That's kind of the downside of playing
such you know, big tennis. I think. So, I'm not
really particularly perturbed or worried about that, but I do
think there's a pretty big gap between the top few
and the rest, and it seems to be widening.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, that's an interesting take. I hadn't really gone into
like the x's and o's like that when it came
to you know, who's having the most success and who's
really separating himself. But having said that, you listen, Mery
Andreas certainly put a name into the hat as a
player that is going to be incredibly tough to beat.
Maddie Keys clearly look that semi final. How did I
(11:35):
how do I describe that? I think, look, there was
there was an opportunity in the very early part of
the second set. I believe it was one all in
a second set with Maddie, or it might have even
been the first game. But anyway, you know when you lose,
when you win a set or lose a set six love,
and surprisingly these guys sabal Anka and Keys have had
a lot of six love or six one sets. It's
(11:56):
usually Maddie that's putting the six love a six one
set on Sonca. And then you know, we saw it
at the us Ophm where it was a six love,
five three lead for Maddie and then she ended up
crumpling and losing that. But actually, I will not say crumpling.
That is not true because as you heard in my
interview with her, I thought Sabalanka started stepping up and
playing really, really, really well, which taught Maddie a lesson
(12:18):
for the Austrain Open final. Because the Austrain Open Final,
she said, I can't let that happen again. I cannot
play passively against Sablenka. And there's no question that she
was stepping up to the play against Sabalanca in Indian wells.
She just was making the unforced darious that she wasn't
making this strain open. And also Sabolenka was playing a
little bit better. But there was a moment in the
(12:41):
very beginning of the second set where Maddie had a
break point and I thought that if Maddie win, that
wins that game. I think I'm not saying she would
have won, but I would have said that it would
have been a very, very competitive match. But it was
a long, long game and she didn't get through it.
And then all of a sudden, the wheels it again,
turning way too much and Sabolenca, you could see the
(13:03):
relief over her because she knew how important that game was.
So there are really even though the score line was
a thrashing, there are really small little windows in tennis
matches that can change them really quickly, and that was
one of them. Because I rewatched it again and I
thought that moment was huge. Having said that Saballnka played
the match of a life in the finals, I have
(13:27):
to say I was so impressed with Mira's ability to
not crumble after losing the first set, because we saw
her get pissed off we hit that ball out of
the crowd. She's funny enough say I'm really sorry about
how I acted. As you would probably say, I think
she said in the ceremony, you would call that being
a brat. I love her honesty. Said, yes, I do
(13:50):
not like to see that. I do not like to
see balls being hit out of like that. I do
not like to see the way eager who has also
said sorry in her post. But we've got to do
a bed and listen. This is coming from someone who
had a really pretty good temper on the court. But
I was not a real ball hitter out of the court.
I was more a little bit more of a self
(14:11):
sabotage to myself. So this hitting balls out of the stadium,
it's got to stop. I think that that we, the
tennis administration's, you know, establishments, needs to make some blanket
rules that if you hit balls into the crowd or
out of the stadium or things like that, you lose
a game or you lose something enormous. Maybe not a
(14:34):
walk over immediately, but it has to be punishable with
a really big fine or something, because it's the only
way to stop it. Agree, and I think there's too
much ambiguity.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Agree, and I think get away with it. We talked
about this at length a couple of years ago with
the nervacuus open issue, and everyone was like, well, yeah,
but it happened to hit some parts.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
At Wembledon when he hit the ball into the crowd,
and they said, no, nothing.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well me, all abuse is way worse than racket abuse,
unless you're throwing a racket at somebody, because ball abuse
can hit people because these balls bounce, obviously. And I
actually thought EGA's near miss with the ball boy was atrocious.
I appreciate that she apologized for it. I appreciate that
you're bringing up mire Andreva. You know, you could see
(15:20):
the ball kild flinch terrified because the ball was coming
back at him unexpectedly pretty fast. And keep in mind
he's working in service of the player. Nobody deserves to
feel scared at their job ever, ever, Ever, And I think, yeah,
there's got to be somewhere between point penalty and a default,
which obviously you get the deef if you hit somebody,
but something between that that feels punitive enough to discourage
(15:43):
it is. Yeah, is that a completely the right move?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I agree with you. Yeah, look, I think that I
think that Ego was hitting the ball in the direction
of her players box. I think that's what the intention was.
She was mad. We saw that with Novak. I think
he was hitting the ball in the direction of his
players box back at the US Open, because if you remember,
(16:07):
it was during the COVID where the player's box was
in a little bit of a different area, and I
think he was like pinging it up there towards them
and obviously hit the lines. Lady, And you know Steph
sister pass hit that ball. He hit a ball at
d C. I've told this story on the pod many
times where he hit a ball into the crowd and
a guy caught the ball and it was flying. He
(16:28):
hit it the way Mira Andreva hit it, which was
very very direct, and a guy caught it. And I
said to the referee, who was literally sitting next to
me watching the match, no warning. He didn't even get
a warning. And the referee said to me, well, you know,
the guy caught it. I was like, what what what
has that got to do with a fine or a warning?
(16:52):
Like are you kidding? Because the guy caught it. What
if a girl, little girl is seven years of age.
It's heading right towards her head. We're hoping that she
catches it. So it's like we got to do.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
With ambiguous and before we get to before we get
to Miami, let's talk about the men. I thought, gooday, wait, wait,
wait wait wait.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Let me just finish one thing on mirror. To get
absolutely smashed by a player in straight sets without even
a contest like two and three, three and two. The
two times that she has lost her this year in Australia.
Once in Australia, Oh no, twice in Australia, I believe,
once in Brisbane, once in Melbourne, and then to get
smashed in the first set in the biggest final of
(17:33):
her career and have the Huitzba to like hang in
there and step that up. She hit that winner to
break serve in the second set, and you saw that
come on from her. She was putting her line in
the sand. Not today. You are not kicking my butt today.
And that to me as a seventeen year old when
(17:54):
I saw the school line, because I was in Miami,
I was actually on the practice court when she was playing.
I ended up subsequently watching the match. I was like,
this kid is special, not to refuse to get crushed
again by arguably the best hardcot player we've seen in many,
many years. Was so impressive, the way she stepped up
(18:14):
her game. I'm just I am blown away how special
this kid is. And I know everyone and the joke.
I don't know if you've seen it, Caitlin, I do.
I'm still on Twitter, which I'm still trying to get
off of, but I did put a funny tweet out
when Jack Draper beat Carlos Archiaz and this is what
people don't understand about my irony and my being an Australian.
(18:35):
I just wrote immediately afterwards, Jack Draper is going to
win Wimbledon, and it was just I'm kind of joking, right,
you know my humor, and I just love the English
getting all pumped up with this guy who's winning a
major title and he's beaten out Christ. I'm like, he's
gonna win Wimbledon. So I just wrote Jack Draper's gonna
win Wimbledon. The amount of people that wrote me on
(18:55):
this tweet, no, he's not. He's not even good on
grasp well, first of all, he's won title on grass,
so that's horseshit. If I could go through line by
line the amount of people write that wrote me on
Twitter about this. I'm like, guys, it's not that serious.
Calm down, stop putting pressure on him. What are you
talking about? Blah blah blah. I was like, oh my god,
(19:17):
he just beat the two times of ending Wimbledon champions.
So I just sort of said he's gonna win Wimbledon
as a joke. But my god, Jack don't win Wimbledon.
So I can literally put that tweet back up. And
then as a joke when Miro Andreva won, guess what
I wrote Caitlin on Twitters.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Got to win Wimbledon's.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Mirror andreve is gonna win Wimbledon. And then of course
litany of people again writing me, what are you talking about?
She lost in the first round last year, she can't
play on grant. I'm like, oh my god, you people
just don't understand humor. And also she can win Wimbledon
because her serve has gotten so much better and her
(19:56):
ability to plan any surface. Just wait, now, did I
say that they were gonna both gonna win wiledon We'll see,
we'll see.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I mean that's on you for being on Twitter. So
I feel like if you want to spend your energy
on that space, then that is your choice, and you're
gonna get a whole lot of nonsense because everyone's just
sitting there waiting to have their feelings hurt. Which you know, if.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I had one guy, I had one guy. Caitlyn came
after me and said, oh, what are you talking about.
He's got to win seven matches to win a Grand
Slam and best of five and I'm like, really.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
This is what you deserve. So but let's talk about
Let's talk about Jack Draper.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I thought Runa match was disappointing only because I know
Runa had played a great tournament. I got to watch
him a lot early.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I love his game.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's so explosive and he's such a character. I watched
him play Quarantine mute at an outer court and I
like the personalities, as you know, and to me, I
think he played a little bit flat, which is not
to take anything away from Jack Draper, who obviously came
through the much much harder test of Carlito's alcoraz On.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The way in I saw him, I was in the
players area. I was on the second floor, he was
on the bottom floor, and there's this area in the
players little area where the locker rooms are where they
have the defending champions photos up there, the singles and
the doubles, which is nice that they put the doubles
up there. And I saw him. He was old by himself,
and he looked up and he took his phone out
(21:51):
and he took a photo of it. I was above
him and I was looking down, and I told him
because I saw him the next day so sleep taking
a photo. He goes, oh, you know you have to
take a photo. Oh he's so cute, So I mean,
come on.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
But I think what I liked about his reaction to
his loss. And a couple of people, you know, on
the internet took issue with this, like they were like
he was making excuses. I actually don't think he was
making excuses. I think he was taking accountability, which is
I didn't play that well, I didn't practice that well.
I didn't feel like myself, which everyone who's ever played, frankly,
(22:24):
any sport, much less tennis, knows sometimes you go out
there and you just don't feel yourself. And I think that,
to me is an understanding, not in any way to
take away from your opponent, but just just to sort
of say like, hey, I know I'm capable of more.
I didn't show up to my fullest capability, and like
this gives me stuff to work on going forward, which
again is sort of an approach. I really like that. Said, like,
(22:44):
Jack Draper is so fun for tennis. He's fun at
the top of the game. He's extremely charismatic. I like
his swaggy sort of approach. And to me, you know,
the storylines coming out of the men's side were really
exciting in this tournament. I thought they were. I thought
we had a great couple of last rounds with you know, Mehdi,
(23:05):
with with Runa and you know, obviously with Carlitosen and
Jack as our semi finalists. Like it was exciting and dynamic,
and I feel like the men now finally we have
some parody. I got to watch Novak Djokovic early. He
lost in a bizarre showing, which, you know, if you're
Andy Murray, I don't know what you are sort of
(23:25):
saying to Novak, do you have any idea what that
approach is? Right now? Novak seems like, you know, out
of sorts.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
You know, again, I thought, you know, I get to
I'm lucky because you know, being on the road. Now coaching,
I get to see a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
And Novak Djokovic has always been the type of person
who literally breaks down everything to the minutia, like we
are talking food, diet, training, hyperbaric chambers, travels with you know,
(23:58):
specific things. He just is always looking for the edge, right,
which is great. It's what has made him great. He's
always looking for that extra edge. And to watch him
yesterday on the grassed area of the Dolphin Stadium, so
you know where Cena coord is in Miami, all the
players are out there sort of doing their warm ups
(24:20):
and Novak was out there doing his warm up and
I saw him standing over there. They were about maybe
twenty meters away from me, sixty feet away from me,
and he's standing there talking to Andy about something on
his forehand. And the amount of times that I'd seen
him do that on a practice court or off of
(24:40):
the court. He just is just that a session with
wanting to be better and make something better. And I
know that Andy is also into the minutia of everything tennis,
whether it be his rackets, his strings, the way this,
or the way that. So I don't know, I don't
know if it's a good combination in some ways because
they're both so TechEd nicol and so like Granular. I
(25:04):
don't know, it's an interesting situation. I think. In the end,
and I've said this for a year, and I'll give
a lot of credit to Andrea Pekovich, at some point
you hit an age where things just get harder. And
at thirty eight years of age, you get that little
(25:24):
bit slower, You get that little bit nor more nervous,
you get that lack of You got that little bit
more lack. I don't even know how to put it.
You get less confident. And he hasn't won a tournament
since he won the Olympics last year, and he won
one tournament last year. And I don't care who you
are or how great you are. Just like Serena coming
(25:45):
to the end of her career, winning matches felt really big.
And I feel like Novak, as great as he played
in Australia, that injury really hurt him and it might
all turn around by the time and of course Wimbledon
comes around, which we know he's the best player in
the world on over the last ten to fifteen years,
(26:06):
even though Carlos has got him the last couple of times,
it's like, I just think it's getting harder, and I
just think he's losing confidence. And I don't care who's
in your corner, whether it be Annie Murray or Jesus
Christ superstar. You got to do it yourself. You got
to convince yourself you're still good enough to win these matches. Yeah,
and these guys are only getting better and better and better,
(26:29):
I can. The key is that these players, they are
starting to realize that he's not invincible. And that's the
key as well. The mental victory for these players is
not as hard. So physically he's getting a little bit
less and mentally a little less, and these players are
getting a little stronger and they feel like they can
beat him now, and that is massive.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I don't see him winning Miami, which is my way
of transitioning us over to the second half of the
Sunshine Double at the Miaomi Miami Open, which is where
you now find yourself. I might try to get down
there towards the end of the tournament, just because you know,
I like the humid either, yes, and I like sunshine,
(27:12):
and it's still very cold up here in New York.
But what are you thinking in terms of the first
half of the Sunshine Double setting us up for the
second half. Do you see anybody going to be able
to sort of put in strong performances back to back
or is this going to kind of be a dealer's
choice of you know, wild outcomes just in another direction
(27:32):
in another week and a half.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, I think we might get two completely different winners
this week. I don't see Jack Draper going back to back.
I think that's going to be really, really hard for him.
I'm not saying he's not capable, you know, clearly, I
think he's gonna win Wimbledon. So jokes, people jokes, but
I do think that. God, I hope you wins. I'll
look like a legend. But I think that it's very, very,
(27:59):
very hard to win Sunshine Double. They are completely different
feelings on the court. Not only are they different the surfaces.
This is a little bit quicker here in Miami. The
humidity makes the world a difference to how the ball
plays as well. And guess what, it's a different ball.
So last week we had Wilson, I believe, is it Wilson, Yes, Wilson.
(28:21):
This week dune Lot, completely different ball. It gets dead
as a doornail. After three or four games, we've got
We've had the worst wind for three days here in Miami,
so that's also a factor. Yes, we had winded India
wells as well, so the players are just probably like, oh,
this fucking wins. Like there's just nothing worse than playing
(28:42):
in wind when you're a tennis player or a golfer
or anything outside. But I do see two different people
winning this tournament. I think it's very, very hard to
do the Sunshine double. We'll see if you know sable
Anka can come back and back it up here. Can
an American do something special the women's side, whether it
be Jaspagul or Mattie Keys, can she bounce back? I
(29:03):
hope Mattie Keys looks at that match and just like
literally just throws it away and just says, look, first
loss of the year. Who cares. Sable Anca got crushed
by rebarking a couple of years ago in Brisbane, same
score line, and then went on and won the Australian Open,
So you can have days like that. So I hope
that maybe Maddie comes back and has an even better
(29:24):
tournament in Miami, because I think clearly she practices in Florida.
So she's used for the conditions. So so we'll see
there rebarking our breakthrough. I don't know. I think al
Choraz might be the one. He gets a tremendous amount
of support here in Miami. He gets support everywhere he goes.
What do you back in the draw here?
Speaker 3 (29:46):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:47):
A man curious? I wish she wouldn't, to be honest,
I'm pretty over the neurious experience. Eh. Just you know,
Oh you don't care? Cool me neither. Keep a moment next,
h You know who I would love to see do well? Who? Also,
to your point about training in the South Florida humid,
(30:07):
you know thick con conditions is Cocoa Goff.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
What do you think about Coco?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
How do you? How do you? And this is kind
of what I meant about talking about the disparity between
the top few players and the rest of the field.
It feels to me a little bit And I love Coco,
So this isn't a diss It's just it feels to
me that the IgA Sebele Anka, Matty Keys, Mirror, Andreva
Cohort has pulled ahead a little bit of your Jess Bagoulas,
(30:35):
your Cocoa, goffs, your jun Cheng wins, you're like kind
of bottom half of the big of the top ten,
and beyond Coco is somebody who has been in both
groups as his jess Maybe this is harsh, I don't know,
but like it's I'd love to see Jessica or Coco
go deep and I don't know what their state of
(30:55):
their games is right now.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah. You know, look, Coco is so unique because when
she's great, she's so great, and then she's you know, unfortunately,
and she's talking, she talked about it, impressed. She's like, look,
I started the year really well, United Cup, all these things.
But look, you know, I'll say it again. You know,
(31:19):
her technique fails under pressure at times and when you're
playing outside, and a lot of her success at the
end of last year and even at the beginning of
this year was played indoors, and so there's no wind,
there's no sun, there's no variables, and when you have
bad even you have technique that's questionable at times, whether
it be the second serve and the service motion and
(31:40):
the service script and all that sort of stuff. And
the forehand, it's like when there's wind and when there's
natural things going on around you, it affects your game more.
And so look, she practices in this all the time.
She practices and lives in Delray Beach area, so she's
getting wind all the time, so she should be used
(32:00):
to it. But you know, speaking of seeing people behind
the scenes, Look, I adore Coco Gough. I think she
is the nicest kid. She is so personable when you
see her. We talk about her thing that she invested
in Unrivaled Basketball, which is here in Miami, and I
went and saw it the other day and we just,
(32:22):
you know, we get along really well and we talk
and I hate talking about her critically because I think
she's just such a special person. But it is my
job to also try and teach people why, right, why
she doesn't have the success so they think she should.
And that's why her technique on her forehand and stuff
is always going to be a problem for her going forward.
So it's a matter of can she get over those humps.
(32:44):
Can she get through the tough three sets match, which
she didn't last week, And we'll see, She's going to
have unbelievable support here in Miami, and maybe this is
the breakthrough that she needs going into the clay, which
we know she plays well on so totally, I don't know.
It's a work in progress. It's going to be a
work in progress with the forehand and with the serf
going forward for the rest of her career. And when
(33:05):
she loses, that is why she's going to lose. So
it's that's why we always talk about it. You know,
Mattie Keith, Why did she lose? Well, we've talked about
it for a long time about her anxiety and going
for too much and all that sort of stuff. So everyone,
no one, no one's immune from being criticized, not criticized,
but understanding why they lose, Yeah, for sure, And that's
(33:27):
why she loses. I So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I want to end this on one or two more
names that I think people who listen to this podcast
are probably curious about, who we haven't talked about so much.
Pretty recently you mentioned a curious There's a reason we
haven't talked about him because he's not really playing tennisee often.
We'll see what happens in Miami. We know he's going
to be at all the parties and brand appearances, and
then probably nothing else. Naomi Osaka. She's also been a
(33:54):
ton of brand work, but not a ton of court
work in the last like year or two since coming
back from attorney leave. You know, get that bag on
one hand, On the other hand, like, how emotionally invested
do I need to be in the Nemeasaka come back,
especially when she hares and has the team around her
that she does. I don't know. I can't tell you.
I'm tremendously emotionally invested, but hard to imagine she shows
(34:17):
up in a big way. And then daniel Collins, who
won this tournament last year, who you know, is a
fan vector of emotions. I love her, but also she's
a little bit more like, you know, like a lot
of people with strong personalities, myself included. You know, we're
not for everybody.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
But yeah, daniel I'll tell you what I coached against
her in doubles last week in Indian Wells in the
first round. And I don't know if that's the much
you were at. Now you're at the second round and
they loved her there. Oh my god. The moment she
stepped on court, the crowd in Indian Wells was like
could not get enough of Danielle Collins. So I think
(34:56):
you said it right. You either love her or you
hate her. There's no in between, there's.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
No yeah, you can't.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You love it or you hate her. Yep, And so
it'll be this is obviously a completely huge week for her.
I'll get to her before I get to Naomi because
Daniel Collins clearly is the defending champion, So she has
a tremendous amount of points coming off the calendar's ranking
(35:23):
this week and in two weeks time, because she won
Charleston as well, So the majority of her points are
coming off if she doesn't defend them. So for people
that don't understand the ranking, the way it works, it's
a twelve month rotation of points. Your points go off
the week, that same week the next year. Let's say
Miami didn't happen, you would lose your points. It's like
(35:46):
too bad, or if you got injured, too bad. So
she either has to win this tournament or she will
drop in the rankings, and same with Charleston. So she's
under a tremendous amount of pressure to do well. She's
the one that decided to come back and play another year,
and so a lot is a lot is going to
drive I think her future in the next three weeks,
so we'll see how she does. Clearly she loves playing
(36:08):
in Miami. In Miami, she's a Florida girl, Saint Petersburg, Florida.
She's used to the weather, she's used to the wind,
and so I expected to have a pretty good tournament.
We'll see how she goes. Naomi Osaka, she has a
tough she has a stard oops of the first round.
I see her getting through that, and then she plays
(36:28):
sam Sonova in the second round. That is going to
be a big hitting affair. She can get through sam Sonova,
We'll see because that is an opportunity for her to
maybe get the confidence. And she's in Casakina section there,
so I see her hitting at Casakina off the court.
If she plays well, it's always in Naomi's hands how
well she plays. But at the same time, you got
(36:49):
to get through these players. They're going to make a
lot of balls and make you play. And when she
played Osorio in the first round of Indian Wells, my
first thought was, Ooh, that's not a good draw for her,
because so Sorrio makes a gazillion balls and will make
you play. And so there's a lot of pressure on
you to hit winners, so if you're not super confident,
whereas sam Sonova, for example, is going to hit winners
(37:11):
or make mistakes. So it's an interesting juxtapose for her there.
You know who's going to get the first strike. I
don't know. She's a Miami girl herself. She grew up
in the Boca area Delray area as well, so she's
used to these conditions. We'll see. It'd be nice for
her to break through, but I think it's becoming a
little bit like Novak, harder and harder to get the
(37:32):
confidence back. And I don't care who you are and
how great a career you've had. At some point, when
you lose your confidence, it's hard to get it back
unless you break through that wall. And that wall is
getting harder and harder and thicker and thicker because the
players are so good around her.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
You know, the parting fart I'll share here, and then
I've got to let you get back to your coaching
duties and I got to run around here. You know
who would be great in Naomi's bucks to Novak steps
to Sade is Andy Murray.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
No way, I would love to for Andy Murray I
want Andy Murray to spend two years at home and
feel like I feel like with four kids at home,
I feel like he feels like that's like solitary confinement,
to be home with his four kids and his wife. Like, dude,
I love you. I love Andy Murray so much. He
(38:26):
knows how much I love him. But my god, these
blokes they just like to be on the road. Family.
Go see.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I know I'm serious, and be like, not on my watch.
She doesn't want tobe. She's just like, get out of Andy.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
The reason we have four kids, the reason we're still
married is because you're never okay. You know, oh Renee substairs.
Andy Murray doesn't spend enough time with his kids, That'll
be the thing that will be the headline. And then
I'm gonna have to be like, oh my god. It's
kind of like, well, you're doing this to your sad
Draper is gonna win get it too much.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You're doing it to yourself.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
So are usual?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
All right? Talk to you today, Thanks everybody, and we'll
see you with a wrap up maybe a midweek mid week. Yeah,
and we'll give you all the lockdown of Miami. All right, guys,
We'll see you next week bye,
This podcast is supported by B and P Party Bar
as part of their global commitment to tennis.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
At all levels.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
BNP Party Bar is the world's leading tennis sponsor and
the title sponsor of the B and P Party Bar Open.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Renee thub At Tennis Podcast.
I am on the road in Miami. Caitlin is at
home in New York, and we have so much to
talk about. Oh my god, Indivian, Wells, Mira andriv But
before we get to that, Caitlyn, you went to space
last week.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I have returned from Space the Final Frontier. Yeah. I
have to say, Isaac, my kid's Space camp. It was amazing.
Any parents out there who have a nurse highly recommend.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Although you have to.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Reference to the fact that the hotel is not exactly
like a five star hotel.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
It isn't even a hotel at all. It's a habitat.
It has no windows or blankets. The showers are rough,
and you know, conditions are less than ideal, but as
they would be in space. You don't even get to
take a shower in space. They use baby wipes. I learned,
which you know, those people who got stranded on the
space station for eight and a half extra months. They
(01:33):
were expecting hot showers and instead they got baby wipes,
So you know, not everything's easy in space forne He
had a lot of complaints about the food. My kid
had a lot of complaints about the rustic accommodations. But
also we did amazing things and went on moonwalks and
did missions and zero gravity training. So you know, this
is just a day in the life of a parent,
(01:54):
kind of similar to the mode you are in as
a coach. Do you feel like coaching and parenting is
probably kind of somewhat related. I got to see you
in action last week and it emails coaching, Alan Perez.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Coaching is a lot like parenting because you have this
you have to walk a fine line, as you know, right,
so you know, you want to teach your kid certain things, right,
You want to teach them certain things and certain habits
and trying to break other habits and things like that,
and sometimes you don't want to go too far. You
don't want to like break their spirit, but you also
(02:27):
don't want them to get away with too much. So
there's like that balance of like how much can you
tell them, how much can you keep reinforcing it right.
If they keep doing the same mistake, do you keep
harping on it or do you harp on it once
every five minutes or once every five seconds. So there's
that really unique balance with coaching, as I think it
is with parenting as well. How far do you go?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I was super impressed and enjoyed greatly. I've seen you
coach plenty of times, but it was really cool to
see Ellen Perez, who was playing with Yelena Ostapenko. They
had a pretty good run in Indian Wells. I thought
they came through some really intense matches, and it was
cool to see a player I hadn't paid very much
(03:11):
attention to, candidly, who you know, was sort of fun
and dynamic and had a good attitude, and you know,
it was nice to sit with you in sam Stosa
and sweat in the California sunshine, work on my tan
and get to watch some great tennis, which is why,
of course we love BNP probably about Open so much
because it's like, honestly, just the most fun. But I
have to say this is a great swing because it
(03:33):
brings us, obviously from Indian Wells to Miami, which I
want to talk to you about. But first, shall we
recap what a great Indian Wells that was? What a
great Indian Wells. I thought it was a phenomenal addition
to the tournament.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and if you had said to me, the winner
of these events are going to be Mira Andreva and
Jack Draper, I probably would have said, a It's possible, certainly,
Mirror after coming off of you know, her victory and
in the Middle East with tons of confidence, but still
(04:09):
to back go back to back is very, very difficult
for anybody, and particularly someone so young. So I would
have said maybe Mirror, but tough Jack certainly possible. I
don't know if he can close it out kind of thing.
So to actually see them both get through and when
you know, the biggest titles of their career, I know
(04:29):
Mirror just wanted to buy and but but this, this
is different. This is on another level in Ian Welles
and the way that she did it was just phenomenal.
To beat the players that she beat, and Jack to
beat the players he beat. So I don't know, what
do you What were your thoughts? What were your favorite
matches that you that you saw? You you saw a
lot of tennis as well.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Mirror and Dreva Iger Schmantek was a masterclass uh in strategy,
patient composure. I was so impressed with me Andreva, who
I agree, even though she just won last week or
the week leading up to the tournament in the Middle East,
Like yeah, I mean, winning this tournament on American soil
(05:12):
in really what is the biggest Master's one thousand level
tournament was pretty spectacular. Doing it to beat Eager and
Arena Seblanca in the final, that's a feat. It is
quite a feat. You know, obviously Arena is the defending champion.
This is just like a pretty amazing run from this.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Our buddy Boschen Function I think, is the one that
put a tweet out that's basically she just did the
same thing Madison Keys did to beat the same players.
So you know, the parody. The great thing is the parody.
Sometimes everyone's like, oh, yeah, these random winners. You know
that women's tennis is you know, there's no real leader
(05:58):
and all that sort of stuff. It's like who cares?
Like when you've got these great players coming through every
single week to be all these great players and we
know how good they are, Like Mira Andreva is going
to be a perennial top five player. I believe throughout
her entire career she has you know, she has the hoodspa,
(06:18):
she has the work ethic, she has the joy in
her tennis. You know, she loses a shit from time
to time, which she did in the final, but to
come through the matches that she did the way she
did was incredible, and so obviously you know how I feel.
I've put out a funny tweet about, Oh, I guess
women can coach, you know, referring to clearly referring to
(06:41):
Kashida Martinez and you know, some of the great And
it's funny because being here in Miami, we have a
I walked into the into the ego underneath the arena,
right that's where all the locker rooms are and everything.
And I walked in there and literally the first sign
I saw to my right was men's coaches locker room,
and Caitlin, and I tell you, it was in neon lights.
(07:04):
It was massive. So I looked at my right and
I'm like, Okay, well there's the men's locker room for
the coaches. Now where's the women's you know. So I'm
looking around and I'm looking around and looking for that
Neon sign right and go around the hallway, so you
imagine underneath a massive stadium. So then you see, you know,
women's players' locker room, men's players' locker room. I'm like, okay,
(07:25):
that's there, and where's the women's locker room. Where's our
big Neon lights? And so I said to one of
the women working the tournament who I've known for a
long time, Hey, you know where's the women's coaches locker
because I'm looking for that. And she goes, oh, it's
just down there. You see that little sign that says laundry,
it's over there on the left. So go in that door.
(07:47):
So we are opposite the player's laundry area, right, and
it is the size of a shoe box. I mean
it's not tiny. I've seen worse. I have to say.
Sometimes we women coaches get literally a toilet area to
like go to. So there's like like probably probably about
eight stalls in there and an open shower and one toilet.
(08:10):
And I just walked in and I just died. I
was like, no, women's locker room, big Neon signs up there, No, no, No,
I know there's clearly a lot more men's coaches, but
it's just the irony. And so when I was in
there yesterday, it was quite full actually because and I
realized there's actually a lot more of us than I
realized now, Like I go, Radwanska was in there, Kirsten
(08:33):
Flipkins was in there, Nicole Pratt's in there, I'm in there.
Of course, hit To Martinez is going to be in there. Zinska,
the woman who coaches Costchuker's in there. There's a couple
of the Japanese girls have coaches, women coaches, So it's
getting more and more. So I just want to shout
out to the tournaments. It's time to give us a
bigger locker room. Okay, great, anyway back to my back
(08:56):
to Indian Wealth.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
No, but I think that's a good indicator. And obviously,
you know, coming back to Mira Andreva, you know who
wasn't thrilled to see the positive dynamic, the incredibly thoughtful
coaching success story that this is in the making. Obviously,
it's something that you and I have discussed at length
on this podcast, especially after some of mir Andreva's results
(09:21):
earlier this season. So if you missed a gushing tribute
to Kunshidah as well as Renee's like very insightful description
of how it is that she knows Kenshiitah takes these
players through their you know, off season preparedness routines and
pre match routines. It was really insightful and I think,
you know, obviously hard work pays off, but at the
heart of it is just like a really really nice
(09:43):
dynamic between two people who are working together to achieve
amazing things. And I just want to call out quickly
before we get to the men, which is in a
lot of ways like a little bit more of an
interesting tournament for storylines. The one thing I'll sort of
say on the women's side is I was a little
shocked that Jung Chin Win's season has been so poor.
(10:04):
I wasn't expecting to beat Ego, especially on these slow courts,
but she really kind of faded, uh. And I wonder,
you know, she's a player that I really look forward
to watching. Obviously, these courts are you know, a little
bit to her favor because they're slower. She's having you know,
some struggles and it'll be interesting to see what, you know,
what happens, uh. And I think there's there's some other
(10:27):
players who are was kind of expecting a little bit
more from and uh, you know, not your sublankcaus or fountecs.
But I do wonder, like, what the the separation between
that top five and everybody else is starting to feel
pretty significant. And I'm not sure John chin Win is
in it, but I definitely think you know, Maddie Keys,
despite a pretty flat semi final performance, definitely earned it.
(10:50):
She has great matches. But that was a little bit
of an you know, sometimes people lay an egg and
turn of flat. That's kind of the downside of playing
such you know, big tennis. I think. So, I'm not
really particularly perturbed or worried about that, but I do
think there's a pretty big gap between the top few
and the rest, and it seems to be widening.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, that's an interesting take. I hadn't really gone into
like the x's and o's like that when it came
to you know, who's having the most success and who's
really separating himself. But having said that, you listen, Mery
Andreas certainly put a name into the hat as a
player that is going to be incredibly tough to beat.
Maddie Keys clearly look that semi final. How did I
(11:35):
how do I describe that? I think, look, there was
there was an opportunity in the very early part of
the second set. I believe it was one all in
a second set with Maddie, or it might have even
been the first game. But anyway, you know when you lose,
when you win a set or lose a set six love,
and surprisingly these guys sabal Anka and Keys have had
a lot of six love or six one sets. It's
(11:56):
usually Maddie that's putting the six love a six one
set on Sonca. And then you know, we saw it
at the us Ophm where it was a six love,
five three lead for Maddie and then she ended up
crumpling and losing that. But actually, I will not say crumpling.
That is not true because as you heard in my
interview with her, I thought Sabalanka started stepping up and
playing really, really, really well, which taught Maddie a lesson
(12:18):
for the Austrain Open final. Because the Austrain Open Final,
she said, I can't let that happen again. I cannot
play passively against Sablenka. And there's no question that she
was stepping up to the play against Sabalanca in Indian wells.
She just was making the unforced darious that she wasn't
making this strain open. And also Sabolenka was playing a
little bit better. But there was a moment in the
(12:41):
very beginning of the second set where Maddie had a
break point and I thought that if Maddie win, that
wins that game. I think I'm not saying she would
have won, but I would have said that it would
have been a very, very competitive match. But it was
a long, long game and she didn't get through it.
And then all of a sudden, the wheels it again,
turning way too much and Sabolenca, you could see the
(13:03):
relief over her because she knew how important that game was.
So there are really even though the score line was
a thrashing, there are really small little windows in tennis
matches that can change them really quickly, and that was
one of them. Because I rewatched it again and I
thought that moment was huge. Having said that Saballnka played
the match of a life in the finals, I have
(13:27):
to say I was so impressed with Mira's ability to
not crumble after losing the first set, because we saw
her get pissed off we hit that ball out of
the crowd. She's funny enough say I'm really sorry about
how I acted. As you would probably say, I think
she said in the ceremony, you would call that being
a brat. I love her honesty. Said, yes, I do
(13:50):
not like to see that. I do not like to
see balls being hit out of like that. I do
not like to see the way eager who has also
said sorry in her post. But we've got to do
a bed and listen. This is coming from someone who
had a really pretty good temper on the court. But
I was not a real ball hitter out of the court.
I was more a little bit more of a self
(14:11):
sabotage to myself. So this hitting balls out of the stadium,
it's got to stop. I think that that we, the
tennis administration's, you know, establishments, needs to make some blanket
rules that if you hit balls into the crowd or
out of the stadium or things like that, you lose
a game or you lose something enormous. Maybe not a
(14:34):
walk over immediately, but it has to be punishable with
a really big fine or something, because it's the only
way to stop it. Agree, and I think there's too
much ambiguity.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Agree, and I think get away with it. We talked
about this at length a couple of years ago with
the nervacuus open issue, and everyone was like, well, yeah,
but it happened to hit some parts.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
At Wembledon when he hit the ball into the crowd,
and they said, no, nothing.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well me, all abuse is way worse than racket abuse,
unless you're throwing a racket at somebody, because ball abuse
can hit people because these balls bounce, obviously. And I
actually thought EGA's near miss with the ball boy was atrocious.
I appreciate that she apologized for it. I appreciate that
you're bringing up mire Andreva. You know, you could see
(15:20):
the ball kild flinch terrified because the ball was coming
back at him unexpectedly pretty fast. And keep in mind
he's working in service of the player. Nobody deserves to
feel scared at their job ever, ever, Ever, And I think, yeah,
there's got to be somewhere between point penalty and a default,
which obviously you get the deef if you hit somebody,
but something between that that feels punitive enough to discourage
(15:43):
it is. Yeah, is that a completely the right move?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
I agree with you. Yeah, look, I think that I
think that Ego was hitting the ball in the direction
of her players box. I think that's what the intention was.
She was mad. We saw that with Novak. I think
he was hitting the ball in the direction of his
players box back at the US Open, because if you remember,
(16:07):
it was during the COVID where the player's box was
in a little bit of a different area, and I
think he was like pinging it up there towards them
and obviously hit the lines. Lady, And you know Steph
sister pass hit that ball. He hit a ball at
d C. I've told this story on the pod many
times where he hit a ball into the crowd and
a guy caught the ball and it was flying. He
(16:28):
hit it the way Mira Andreva hit it, which was
very very direct, and a guy caught it. And I
said to the referee, who was literally sitting next to
me watching the match, no warning. He didn't even get
a warning. And the referee said to me, well, you know,
the guy caught it. I was like, what what what
has that got to do with a fine or a warning?
(16:52):
Like are you kidding? Because the guy caught it. What
if a girl, little girl is seven years of age.
It's heading right towards her head. We're hoping that she
catches it. So it's like we got to do.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
With ambiguous and before we get to before we get
to Miami, let's talk about the men. I thought, gooday, wait, wait,
wait wait wait.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Let me just finish one thing on mirror. To get
absolutely smashed by a player in straight sets without even
a contest like two and three, three and two. The
two times that she has lost her this year in Australia.
Once in Australia, Oh no, twice in Australia, I believe,
once in Brisbane, once in Melbourne, and then to get
smashed in the first set in the biggest final of
(17:33):
her career and have the Huitzba to like hang in
there and step that up. She hit that winner to
break serve in the second set, and you saw that
come on from her. She was putting her line in
the sand. Not today. You are not kicking my butt today.
And that to me as a seventeen year old when
(17:54):
I saw the school line, because I was in Miami,
I was actually on the practice court when she was playing.
I ended up subsequently watching the match. I was like,
this kid is special, not to refuse to get crushed
again by arguably the best hardcot player we've seen in many,
many years. Was so impressive, the way she stepped up
(18:14):
her game. I'm just I am blown away how special
this kid is. And I know everyone and the joke.
I don't know if you've seen it, Caitlin, I do.
I'm still on Twitter, which I'm still trying to get
off of, but I did put a funny tweet out
when Jack Draper beat Carlos Archiaz and this is what
people don't understand about my irony and my being an Australian.
(18:35):
I just wrote immediately afterwards, Jack Draper is going to
win Wimbledon, and it was just I'm kind of joking, right,
you know my humor, and I just love the English
getting all pumped up with this guy who's winning a
major title and he's beaten out Christ. I'm like, he's
gonna win Wimbledon. So I just wrote Jack Draper's gonna
win Wimbledon. The amount of people that wrote me on
(18:55):
this tweet, no, he's not. He's not even good on
grasp well, first of all, he's won title on grass,
so that's horseshit. If I could go through line by
line the amount of people write that wrote me on
Twitter about this. I'm like, guys, it's not that serious.
Calm down, stop putting pressure on him. What are you
talking about? Blah blah blah. I was like, oh my god,
(19:17):
he just beat the two times of ending Wimbledon champions.
So I just sort of said he's gonna win Wimbledon
as a joke. But my god, Jack don't win Wimbledon.
So I can literally put that tweet back up. And
then as a joke when Miro Andreva won, guess what
I wrote Caitlin on Twitters.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Got to win Wimbledon's.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Mirror andreve is gonna win Wimbledon. And then of course
litany of people again writing me, what are you talking about?
She lost in the first round last year, she can't
play on grant. I'm like, oh my god, you people
just don't understand humor. And also she can win Wimbledon
because her serve has gotten so much better and her
(19:56):
ability to plan any surface. Just wait, now, did I
say that they were gonna both gonna win wiledon We'll see,
we'll see.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I mean that's on you for being on Twitter. So
I feel like if you want to spend your energy
on that space, then that is your choice, and you're
gonna get a whole lot of nonsense because everyone's just
sitting there waiting to have their feelings hurt. Which you know, if.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I had one guy, I had one guy. Caitlyn came
after me and said, oh, what are you talking about.
He's got to win seven matches to win a Grand
Slam and best of five and I'm like, really.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
This is what you deserve. So but let's talk about
Let's talk about Jack Draper.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I thought Runa match was disappointing only because I know
Runa had played a great tournament. I got to watch
him a lot early.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I love his game.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's so explosive and he's such a character. I watched
him play Quarantine mute at an outer court and I
like the personalities, as you know, and to me, I
think he played a little bit flat, which is not
to take anything away from Jack Draper, who obviously came
through the much much harder test of Carlito's alcoraz On.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The way in I saw him, I was in the
players area. I was on the second floor, he was
on the bottom floor, and there's this area in the
players little area where the locker rooms are where they
have the defending champions photos up there, the singles and
the doubles, which is nice that they put the doubles
up there. And I saw him. He was old by himself,
and he looked up and he took his phone out
(21:51):
and he took a photo of it. I was above
him and I was looking down, and I told him
because I saw him the next day so sleep taking
a photo. He goes, oh, you know you have to
take a photo. Oh he's so cute, So I mean,
come on.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
But I think what I liked about his reaction to
his loss. And a couple of people, you know, on
the internet took issue with this, like they were like
he was making excuses. I actually don't think he was
making excuses. I think he was taking accountability, which is
I didn't play that well, I didn't practice that well.
I didn't feel like myself, which everyone who's ever played, frankly,
(22:24):
any sport, much less tennis, knows sometimes you go out
there and you just don't feel yourself. And I think that,
to me is an understanding, not in any way to
take away from your opponent, but just just to sort
of say like, hey, I know I'm capable of more.
I didn't show up to my fullest capability, and like
this gives me stuff to work on going forward, which
again is sort of an approach. I really like that. Said, like,
(22:44):
Jack Draper is so fun for tennis. He's fun at
the top of the game. He's extremely charismatic. I like
his swaggy sort of approach. And to me, you know,
the storylines coming out of the men's side were really
exciting in this tournament. I thought they were. I thought
we had a great couple of last rounds with you know, Mehdi,
(23:05):
with with Runa and you know, obviously with Carlitosen and
Jack as our semi finalists. Like it was exciting and dynamic,
and I feel like the men now finally we have
some parody. I got to watch Novak Djokovic early. He
lost in a bizarre showing, which, you know, if you're
Andy Murray, I don't know what you are sort of
(23:25):
saying to Novak, do you have any idea what that
approach is? Right now? Novak seems like, you know, out
of sorts.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
You know, again, I thought, you know, I get to
I'm lucky because you know, being on the road. Now coaching,
I get to see a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
And Novak Djokovic has always been the type of person
who literally breaks down everything to the minutia, like we
are talking food, diet, training, hyperbaric chambers, travels with you know,
(23:58):
specific things. He just is always looking for the edge, right,
which is great. It's what has made him great. He's
always looking for that extra edge. And to watch him
yesterday on the grassed area of the Dolphin Stadium, so
you know where Cena coord is in Miami, all the
players are out there sort of doing their warm ups
(24:20):
and Novak was out there doing his warm up and
I saw him standing over there. They were about maybe
twenty meters away from me, sixty feet away from me,
and he's standing there talking to Andy about something on
his forehand. And the amount of times that I'd seen
him do that on a practice court or off of
(24:40):
the court. He just is just that a session with
wanting to be better and make something better. And I
know that Andy is also into the minutia of everything tennis,
whether it be his rackets, his strings, the way this,
or the way that. So I don't know, I don't
know if it's a good combination in some ways because
they're both so TechEd nicol and so like Granular. I
(25:04):
don't know, it's an interesting situation. I think. In the end,
and I've said this for a year, and I'll give
a lot of credit to Andrea Pekovich, at some point
you hit an age where things just get harder. And
at thirty eight years of age, you get that little
(25:24):
bit slower, You get that little bit nor more nervous,
you get that lack of You got that little bit
more lack. I don't even know how to put it.
You get less confident. And he hasn't won a tournament
since he won the Olympics last year, and he won
one tournament last year. And I don't care who you
are or how great you are. Just like Serena coming
(25:45):
to the end of her career, winning matches felt really big.
And I feel like Novak, as great as he played
in Australia, that injury really hurt him and it might
all turn around by the time and of course Wimbledon
comes around, which we know he's the best player in
the world on over the last ten to fifteen years,
(26:06):
even though Carlos has got him the last couple of times,
it's like, I just think it's getting harder, and I
just think he's losing confidence. And I don't care who's
in your corner, whether it be Annie Murray or Jesus
Christ superstar. You got to do it yourself. You got
to convince yourself you're still good enough to win these matches. Yeah,
and these guys are only getting better and better and better,
(26:29):
I can. The key is that these players, they are
starting to realize that he's not invincible. And that's the
key as well. The mental victory for these players is
not as hard. So physically he's getting a little bit
less and mentally a little less, and these players are
getting a little stronger and they feel like they can
beat him now, and that is massive.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I don't see him winning Miami, which is my way
of transitioning us over to the second half of the
Sunshine Double at the Miaomi Miami Open, which is where
you now find yourself. I might try to get down
there towards the end of the tournament, just because you know,
I like the humid either, yes, and I like sunshine,
(27:12):
and it's still very cold up here in New York.
But what are you thinking in terms of the first
half of the Sunshine Double setting us up for the
second half. Do you see anybody going to be able
to sort of put in strong performances back to back
or is this going to kind of be a dealer's
choice of you know, wild outcomes just in another direction
(27:32):
in another week and a half.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, I think we might get two completely different winners
this week. I don't see Jack Draper going back to back.
I think that's going to be really, really hard for him.
I'm not saying he's not capable, you know, clearly, I
think he's gonna win Wimbledon. So jokes, people jokes, but
I do think that. God, I hope you wins. I'll
look like a legend. But I think that it's very, very,
(27:59):
very hard to win Sunshine Double. They are completely different
feelings on the court. Not only are they different the surfaces.
This is a little bit quicker here in Miami. The
humidity makes the world a difference to how the ball
plays as well. And guess what, it's a different ball.
So last week we had Wilson, I believe, is it Wilson, Yes, Wilson.
(28:21):
This week dune Lot, completely different ball. It gets dead
as a doornail. After three or four games, we've got
We've had the worst wind for three days here in Miami,
so that's also a factor. Yes, we had winded India
wells as well, so the players are just probably like, oh,
this fucking wins. Like there's just nothing worse than playing
(28:42):
in wind when you're a tennis player or a golfer
or anything outside. But I do see two different people
winning this tournament. I think it's very, very hard to
do the Sunshine double. We'll see if you know sable
Anka can come back and back it up here. Can
an American do something special the women's side, whether it
be Jaspagul or Mattie Keys, can she bounce back? I
(29:03):
hope Mattie Keys looks at that match and just like
literally just throws it away and just says, look, first
loss of the year. Who cares. Sable Anca got crushed
by rebarking a couple of years ago in Brisbane, same
score line, and then went on and won the Australian Open,
So you can have days like that. So I hope
that maybe Maddie comes back and has an even better
(29:24):
tournament in Miami, because I think clearly she practices in Florida.
So she's used for the conditions. So so we'll see
there rebarking our breakthrough. I don't know. I think al
Choraz might be the one. He gets a tremendous amount
of support here in Miami. He gets support everywhere he goes.
What do you back in the draw here?
Speaker 3 (29:46):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (29:47):
A man curious? I wish she wouldn't, to be honest,
I'm pretty over the neurious experience. Eh. Just you know,
Oh you don't care? Cool me neither. Keep a moment next,
h You know who I would love to see do well? Who? Also,
to your point about training in the South Florida humid,
(30:07):
you know thick con conditions is Cocoa Goff.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
What do you think about Coco?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
How do you? How do you? And this is kind
of what I meant about talking about the disparity between
the top few players and the rest of the field.
It feels to me a little bit And I love Coco,
So this isn't a diss It's just it feels to
me that the IgA Sebele Anka, Matty Keys, Mirror, Andreva
Cohort has pulled ahead a little bit of your Jess Bagoulas,
(30:35):
your Cocoa, goffs, your jun Cheng wins, you're like kind
of bottom half of the big of the top ten,
and beyond Coco is somebody who has been in both
groups as his jess Maybe this is harsh, I don't know,
but like it's I'd love to see Jessica or Coco
go deep and I don't know what their state of
(30:55):
their games is right now.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah. You know, look, Coco is so unique because when
she's great, she's so great, and then she's you know, unfortunately,
and she's talking, she talked about it, impressed. She's like, look,
I started the year really well, United Cup, all these things.
But look, you know, I'll say it again. You know,
(31:19):
her technique fails under pressure at times and when you're
playing outside, and a lot of her success at the
end of last year and even at the beginning of
this year was played indoors, and so there's no wind,
there's no sun, there's no variables, and when you have
bad even you have technique that's questionable at times, whether
it be the second serve and the service motion and
(31:40):
the service script and all that sort of stuff. And
the forehand, it's like when there's wind and when there's
natural things going on around you, it affects your game more.
And so look, she practices in this all the time.
She practices and lives in Delray Beach area, so she's
getting wind all the time, so she should be used
(32:00):
to it. But you know, speaking of seeing people behind
the scenes, Look, I adore Coco Gough. I think she
is the nicest kid. She is so personable when you
see her. We talk about her thing that she invested
in Unrivaled Basketball, which is here in Miami, and I
went and saw it the other day and we just,
(32:22):
you know, we get along really well and we talk
and I hate talking about her critically because I think
she's just such a special person. But it is my
job to also try and teach people why, right, why
she doesn't have the success so they think she should.
And that's why her technique on her forehand and stuff
is always going to be a problem for her going forward.
So it's a matter of can she get over those humps.
(32:44):
Can she get through the tough three sets match, which
she didn't last week, And we'll see, She's going to
have unbelievable support here in Miami, and maybe this is
the breakthrough that she needs going into the clay, which
we know she plays well on so totally, I don't know.
It's a work in progress. It's going to be a
work in progress with the forehand and with the serf
going forward for the rest of her career. And when
(33:05):
she loses, that is why she's going to lose. So
it's that's why we always talk about it. You know,
Mattie Keith, Why did she lose? Well, we've talked about
it for a long time about her anxiety and going
for too much and all that sort of stuff. So everyone,
no one, no one's immune from being criticized, not criticized,
but understanding why they lose, Yeah, for sure, And that's
(33:27):
why she loses. I So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I want to end this on one or two more
names that I think people who listen to this podcast
are probably curious about, who we haven't talked about so much.
Pretty recently you mentioned a curious There's a reason we
haven't talked about him because he's not really playing tennisee often.
We'll see what happens in Miami. We know he's going
to be at all the parties and brand appearances, and
then probably nothing else. Naomi Osaka. She's also been a
(33:54):
ton of brand work, but not a ton of court
work in the last like year or two since coming
back from attorney leave. You know, get that bag on
one hand, On the other hand, like, how emotionally invested
do I need to be in the Nemeasaka come back,
especially when she hares and has the team around her
that she does. I don't know. I can't tell you.
I'm tremendously emotionally invested, but hard to imagine she shows
(34:17):
up in a big way. And then daniel Collins, who
won this tournament last year, who you know, is a
fan vector of emotions. I love her, but also she's
a little bit more like, you know, like a lot
of people with strong personalities, myself included. You know, we're
not for everybody.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
But yeah, daniel I'll tell you what I coached against
her in doubles last week in Indian Wells in the
first round. And I don't know if that's the much
you were at. Now you're at the second round and
they loved her there. Oh my god. The moment she
stepped on court, the crowd in Indian Wells was like
could not get enough of Danielle Collins. So I think
(34:56):
you said it right. You either love her or you
hate her. There's no in between, there's.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
No yeah, you can't.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You love it or you hate her. Yep, And so
it'll be this is obviously a completely huge week for her.
I'll get to her before I get to Naomi because
Daniel Collins clearly is the defending champion, So she has
a tremendous amount of points coming off the calendar's ranking
(35:23):
this week and in two weeks time, because she won
Charleston as well, So the majority of her points are
coming off if she doesn't defend them. So for people
that don't understand the ranking, the way it works, it's
a twelve month rotation of points. Your points go off
the week, that same week the next year. Let's say
Miami didn't happen, you would lose your points. It's like
(35:46):
too bad, or if you got injured, too bad. So
she either has to win this tournament or she will
drop in the rankings, and same with Charleston. So she's
under a tremendous amount of pressure to do well. She's
the one that decided to come back and play another year,
and so a lot is a lot is going to
drive I think her future in the next three weeks,
so we'll see how she does. Clearly she loves playing
(36:08):
in Miami. In Miami, she's a Florida girl, Saint Petersburg, Florida.
She's used to the weather, she's used to the wind,
and so I expected to have a pretty good tournament.
We'll see how she goes. Naomi Osaka, she has a
tough she has a stard oops of the first round.
I see her getting through that, and then she plays
(36:28):
sam Sonova in the second round. That is going to
be a big hitting affair. She can get through sam Sonova,
We'll see because that is an opportunity for her to
maybe get the confidence. And she's in Casakina section there,
so I see her hitting at Casakina off the court.
If she plays well, it's always in Naomi's hands how
well she plays. But at the same time, you got
(36:49):
to get through these players. They're going to make a
lot of balls and make you play. And when she
played Osorio in the first round of Indian Wells, my
first thought was, Ooh, that's not a good draw for her,
because so Sorrio makes a gazillion balls and will make
you play. And so there's a lot of pressure on
you to hit winners, so if you're not super confident,
whereas sam Sonova, for example, is going to hit winners
(37:11):
or make mistakes. So it's an interesting juxtapose for her there.
You know who's going to get the first strike. I
don't know. She's a Miami girl herself. She grew up
in the Boca area Delray area as well, so she's
used to these conditions. We'll see. It'd be nice for
her to break through, but I think it's becoming a
little bit like Novak, harder and harder to get the
(37:32):
confidence back. And I don't care who you are and
how great a career you've had. At some point, when
you lose your confidence, it's hard to get it back
unless you break through that wall. And that wall is
getting harder and harder and thicker and thicker because the
players are so good around her.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
You know, the parting fart I'll share here, and then
I've got to let you get back to your coaching
duties and I got to run around here. You know
who would be great in Naomi's bucks to Novak steps
to Sade is Andy Murray.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
No way, I would love to for Andy Murray I
want Andy Murray to spend two years at home and
feel like I feel like with four kids at home,
I feel like he feels like that's like solitary confinement,
to be home with his four kids and his wife. Like, dude,
I love you. I love Andy Murray so much. He
(38:26):
knows how much I love him. But my god, these
blokes they just like to be on the road. Family.
Go see.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I know I'm serious, and be like, not on my watch.
She doesn't want tobe. She's just like, get out of Andy.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
The reason we have four kids, the reason we're still
married is because you're never okay. You know, oh Renee substairs.
Andy Murray doesn't spend enough time with his kids, That'll
be the thing that will be the headline. And then
I'm gonna have to be like, oh my god. It's
kind of like, well, you're doing this to your sad
Draper is gonna win get it too much.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You're doing it to yourself.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
So are usual?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
All right? Talk to you today, Thanks everybody, and we'll
see you with a wrap up maybe a midweek mid week. Yeah,
and we'll give you all the lockdown of Miami. All right, guys,
We'll see you next week bye,
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