February 17, 2026 • 47 mins
What happens when medicine stops asking people to come to it—and starts showing up instead? In this episode of The Ripple Effect, Jenna Kim Jones dives into the Los Angeles Barbershop Blood Pressure Study, an innovative program from Cedars-Sinai built on one essential ingredient: trust.
Cardiologist Dr. Natalie Bello, barber Eric Muhammad, and study participant Marcus Byrd share how a familiar, trusted space became the setting for honest conversations about health, fear, and survival. Together, they unpack why Black men are disproportionately affected by untreated high blood pressure, how pharmacists embedded in barbershops changed outcomes, and what happens when care feels personal instead of clinical.
This conversation isn’t just about better health results—it’s about what becomes possible when communities are respected, listened to, and empowered to lead.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey there, I'm Jenikim Jones and welcome back to The
Ripple Effect, the show that reminds us that meaningful change
doesn't always start in a hospital or.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
A courtroom or a boardroom. Sometimes it starts in a
barber's chair. That's right, I want you to picture a
barber shop for a second. Right, the sound of the
Clippers sports on TV.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Conversations that manage to cover everything you know, from family
drama to politics to who's winning this weekend. Barbershops are
places where people show up regularly, they relax, and most importantly,
they trust the people around them. Okay, so now picture
someone coming into that barbershop and being like, hey can
I take your blood pressure? WHOA slow down? That probably
(00:48):
sounds a little bit strange or like maybe not the
right place. Okay. I mean if someone came in while
I was getting my haircut and they're like, hey, can
I take your blood pressure? I'd be like, no, you cannot.
I shot gun todyke ok and Donald's French Fry on
the way over. This is not gonna go well for me.
But truly, what if bringing your health care into a
(01:09):
familiar space that people trust, Maybe that's the missing ingredient
to really helping people. Today's episode is all about a
groundbreaking study out of Los Angeles that asked a simple
but radical question, what if we stopped asking people to
navigate a healthcare system that doesn't always work for them,
and instead brought care directly into a place where they
(01:31):
already feel safe. The Los Angeles Barbershop Blood Pressure Study
partnered black barbers with medical professionals to help treat high
blood pressure in black men, which is a condition often
called the silent killer and one that often goes untreated.
The results they weren't just better, they were dramatically better.
(01:52):
Today I'm joined by doctor Natalie Bellow, one of the
physicians behind the study, along with Eric Muhammad, a barber
who participated first hand, and Marcus Bird, a client whose
life was directly impacted by this work. This conversation is
about trust, innovation, and rethinking where serious things are allowed
to happen. So let's pull up a chair. Let's talk
(02:14):
about the ripple effects of meeting people exactly where they are.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Oh my goodness, doctor Bellow, thank you so much for
joining us today and taking time.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
To talk with us. We are really excited to have
you on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Thanks for having me, Johanna, I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I would love to learn a little bit about you
first before we dive into our topic today. Tell me
about you and how you became a cardiologist.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
As you said, I am a cardiologist. I have training
in both preventive cardiology, and I often say to my patients,
my job is to keep you away from people like me.
If I'm doing my job, you should never have to
see a cardiologist, which is sort of the beauty of
the barbershop study that we'll talk about later. I also
(03:05):
have training in cardiovascular imaging, so I love pictures and
looking at things. I'm a very visual person and so
that's part of what I do with my patients every day,
show them pictures of their heart, help them understand how
it works. If something's not working so well, what we're
going to fix. And I guess I got into cardiology
(03:25):
one because I like talking to people, helping people. And
I had several members of my own family who were
affected by heart disease, and so as I was going
through medical school, sort of resonated with me, why not
focus on something that affected my life personally and also
cardiovascular disease is the leading killer of people in the
(03:48):
United States, both men and women, and most women think
that it's breast cancer. And so I feel like that's
part of my mission is to get the word out
there that heart disease is what we have to be
careful about. And importantly, eighty percent of heart disease is preventable.
So things like controlling blood pressure, which the Barbershop study
(04:08):
has taught us how to do, are so so important
to keep people healthy.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Okay, I didn't know that about women. So I've learned
something today.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Great, hopefully everybody listening.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I know I'm going to be Oh, that's something to
add to my list of things to think about here.
That's so interesting, and you know, it's oftentimes it seems
like the things that you know hit us personally lead
you to what you want to do. So that's really
cool that you chose to get into cardiology and take
on that challenge of letting people know that we can
(04:39):
do something about it. Absolutely, So let's dive into this
study that we're going to talk about. Can you tell
me a little bit about doctor Ronald Victor this was
sort of his idea, And tell me a little bit
about how this study came to be.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
So doctor Victor was a cardiologist at Cedar Sinai in
Los Angeles where I currently am also now I've taken
over his position as the director of Hypertension. So doctor
Victor was really a visionary when it comes to thinking
about how can we meet people where they're at, provide
(05:17):
healthcare to them in their environment, whether it's where they live, work, play, prey.
But you know, so often medicine is people coming to
us in our clinics, in our hospitals, and we know
that's not very convenient. So the original LA Barbershops study
(05:40):
took two groups of men across Los Angeles centered around
different barber shops, and one group was considered the usual
care group, where the barbers were educated about high blood pressure,
taught how to measure blood pressure. Blood pressure readings were
done in the barber shops, and people were educated about
(06:01):
what their numbers were, if they were normal or if
they were high. If they were high, they were given
information about high blood pressure, told to see their doctors.
That was all that was on, so sort of like
a community health screening. The intervention arm had pharmacists in
their shops and they were randomized by barber shops, so
(06:23):
an entire barber shop would either be pamphlets or have
a pharmacist so that there wasn't cross contamination of somebody
sitting there and being like, oh, hey, I heard what
that pharmacist said. I'm going to go do that too.
So in the intervention, arm pharmacists were paired with the
individuals who had high blood pressure in the shops. They
(06:44):
would go in measure blood pressure, prescribe medications to individuals
to get their blood pressure to goal, and then have
discussions with them to make sure their medications were being tolerated, okay,
answer any questions or concerns, and then you know, sort
of keep measuring blood pressure until they were at where
(07:04):
we wanted their blood pressure to be. And so that
was really the special sauce was having that pharmacist there
who could be a resource for people to ask questions,
but also could just provide the care right there, right then,
without having any lag periods.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And you saw pretty dramatic results.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Yes, there absolutely were. So when everybody started, the average
blood pressure, the systemic blood pressure was one hundred and
fifty two to one hundred and fifty four millimeters of
mercury really high. So just to put it in perspective, now,
we want blood pressure to be less than one hundred
and thirty over eighty, so pretty far away from goal.
(07:46):
By six months, in the group that had access to
the pharmacists, their blood pressure declined by twenty seven millimeters
of mercury. In the control group, where people were told
your bloo pressure's high, see your doctor and many of
them did, their blood pressure only went down by about
nine millimeters of mercury. So, I mean, it's just a
(08:09):
remarkable intervention.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That's amazing. So this study gets off the ground. What
was the reaction?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Do you kind of know how people felt about it
when it was pitched? I mean, is this something doctors
were excited about.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I remember reading the results when they came out in
the New England Journal of Medicine, which is sort of
our you know, Oscars of Medicine. This is the place
to go grow when something new and exciting comes out.
And just to put it in perspective, a typical medication
lowers blood pressure maybe five millimeters of mercury, seven millimeters
(08:47):
of mercury. But each one millimeter of mercury, if you
can lower blood pressure to get it to gold that
can help prevent heart attack, stroke, and even dementia. So
every little bit counts. And the amazing thing I remember
reading this paper and saying, I can't believe. So by
just putting pharmacists in the community, having them interact with
(09:08):
people in barbershops, having barber's liaise with the pharmacists and
introduce them to their patients members clients to build this
trust and to get people on medications to talk through
side effects, they were able to reduce blood pressure by
more than twenty seven millimeters of mercury. Oh my god,
(09:30):
which is a mind boggling come out. And it really
it just sort of speaks to all you have to
do is be there, talk to people, establish relationships. Eric
Muhammad who was sort of our lead barber, and I
think the relationship between Ron and Eric is a really
(09:51):
special one. And Ron and Eric worked together, and Eric
really went out and vouched for this study in the
community and said, hey, these people are here, let's give
this a shot. They're looking to help us. You know,
high blood pressure is an issue. Black men are dying.
Why don't we see how this works for us? And
(10:14):
he really went out helped recruit other barbers he led.
You know, he in his own barber shop, was a
shop in the study and helped enroll patients.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well, we're fortunate enough to have Eric joining us today. Eric,
welcome to The Ripple Effect. As doctor Bellow just mentioned,
you were a real part of this study success.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Thank you Jennifer for having me. It is such a
pleasure and honor to be on your show today.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
We feel like it's an honor because you're actually in
Thailand right now.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Yes, I currently live in Thailand.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That is amazing. I have family in Thailand, so I
understand the appeal. It's a fantastic place.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Really. What part of Thailand they live in?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Bangkok?
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, where are you at?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
I'm in Buquet. Oh, that's a.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Great place to be. I've been there and it's beautiful.
So yes, I know Thailand well. But I know that
the time difference from where I am and Thailand is
twelve hours. So thank you so much for doing this.
Tell me about your barbershop and what your community was like.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
You know, it's definitely a piece of the past that
may never be revisited again. The old barber shops have died.
I was even considered a new barbershop at one point
to the old barbers and the old barbershops. Although I
had been raised by them, and I kept a lot
(11:35):
of the spirit that the old barbershop had, I added
some new things. Most barbershops are now private booths and
appointment only, whereas in the old days appointments were unheard
of and the barbershop barbers didn't make appointments. They came
in as a walk in. They waited. Why because there
(11:56):
was a conversation. There was a basketball game, of football game,
a chess game to be played, and something to do.
It's a place to get away. At least you knew
if Saturday, Hey, I'm going to the barbershop, I got
three or four hours I can get away from the house.
The yeat a god. Barbershop had that we had conversation.
(12:17):
We were open to all conversation. I don't care if
you were two years old, if you could talk, I
wanted to hear from you, because if you have something
to say, we all should listen. It was a safe haven.
I grew up in an area where the color was blue,
and I opened up my barbershop where the color was red.
I have friends that are colored blue and now I
(12:40):
have friends that are wearing color red. We all must
come together, we all grow hair, and so it became
a spot where at least in this area, right here,
there would be peace.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
How did you come to find out years back about
the study? Were you interested in it right away when
you heard of it? How did that all come about?
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Well, in the barbershop, we often come across people looking
for customers because we have a lot of them, and
in the medical field, a customer is a patient. So
we'll have them come and they'll spend a day an hour,
and they'll look to get involved with our customer base,
(13:28):
and then they leave. They do nothing, they don't help anybody,
They take their information and then they next thing, you know,
I don't know, you're getting a phone call about something else.
I got a phone call one day and there was
a young lady on the other end asking me if
i'd be interested in a blood pressure study. I said, sure,
(13:49):
no problem, of course, I'm thinking here, you'll come from
one day again and you'll leave. Well, that wasn't the
case in this situation. They laying to me that no,
we would be there for a couple of weeks to
a month, acquiring data, and information on your customer base,
and then we would continue to care for them for
(14:11):
a year. Well, now my ears are wide open. I
couldn't believe what I was hearing. Yeah, and I said, well, sure,
of course, I'd love to. And the pharmacist that made
the phone call was surprised. I could hear it in
her voice, and so she says, are you sure? I
said yes, I'm sure. So I told her I would
(14:33):
be more than happy to be involved. And so she
came by with the doctor and we met and we
set up and I told them we're ready to go.
When we got started, it was a beautiful beginning because
we were the first shot.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Do you think that when you were talking to the
pharmacist and she's pitching you this idea, you know, you said,
she sounded like surprised you were into it. Why do
you think she was surprised?
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Well, I know why she was surprised. Everyone said, no, okay,
because most of us don't like it. We don't because
the norm is, like I said, you come and you
go and you do nothing, and you really just get
in our way. And you want to come on a
Saturday where we're at our most busiest, right and we
don't want to get involved in that. So yeah, most
(15:25):
barbershops said no in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
And you know, if people are scared, listen to them.
What are you afraid of? Maybe you know someone who
took a medication and had a really bad reaction. Let's
talk through that. Maybe you've had bad reactions. And pharmacists
are amazing, amazing human beings who have so much knowledge
and are such a wonderful compliment to what I do
(15:49):
as a physician. I love having pharmacists on my team
because they have the time and the skill and the
knowledge to talk through those things and to say, hey, actually,
maybe this medicine isn't the best one for this person.
Because I noticed XYZ. So it really was sort of
a genius idea to put the people with the knowledge
in there and just just get them out with boots
(16:12):
on the ground.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Okay, So Eric, how did this all come together in
your shop? How was this all set up?
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Well, you know, if I recall, it had to have
happened sometime around the beginning of the year, because most
of my clients thought that I was doing tax preparations.
We had tables, yeah, and staff that people have never
seen before with must.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Have been a big year for you. I guess all
these tables and computers.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
So no, we're doing We're doing a blood pressure study
and everyone gets a free reading. And I wanted to
make sure. And I know we have a guideline of
a customer base that you want, but I have a
total guideline of customer that need help. So although everyone
is not mail and over the age of thirty five
(17:06):
that comes in here, everyone that walks through this door
that wants a blood pressure reason should get one and
then they can make a decision as to what they
want to do.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, your customers, your clients, did they jump on board?
Was everybody okay, sure take my blood pressure? Or were
people kind of I'm not interested? This is my space.
I'm not I don't want to do that here.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Well, you know, even in my environment, with my support
and my nudging, you still have to understand it. The
reason why they're here is because black men don't go
to the doctor. And now the doctor is here. I
still don't want to see you, right right, So that
(17:49):
doesn't make a difference whether I come to you or
you come to me. I don't want to see you
because most of the time you have bad news. So yes,
of course we had mixed emotions. We had a lot
of men. No, absolutely, I do not want to even
know what it is today, let alone join the program
(18:11):
when they found out that they needed the program.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right. Did you have any people who change their minds
over time, who you know because they come in again
they see, okay, these guys are still here. Maybe they
heard from somebody else that it was going well. Did
anybody say no in the beginning and then change their
mind I.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Would have to say that's eighty percent of the people
that joined.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Really, Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
That know in the beginning and then eventually came back
around due to persistence and the fact that they were
there again. You can't be there for one day. See,
they're gonna turn you down thinking you're not gonna be
here next week.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right exactly, Oh, well they'll go away.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I don't have to deal it's impossible for you to
be here next week, or sure, I'll do it next time, right,
and next time they're still here, and we may sure
that we contacted everyone. I even changed the scheduling for
one particular client of mine that only got his haircut
at six o'clock in the morning. Oh my goodness, on Saturday,
(19:12):
can you have a staff come at six o'clock and
get him because I think he needs our help. Wow.
And he'd ended up becoming our spokesperson. Can you imagine that?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
He was in the commercials most of the publishing for
all of the news media and outlet. He's on the picture.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Yeah, And we had we had to bribe him, We
had had to get the staff to come in early.
Is this Marcus, that's Mark, Yes, that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Well, let's meet Marcus. Marcus. Welcome to the Ripple Effect.
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Absolutely. My name is Marcus Byrd. I'm in hospitality, uh,
and I'm always at the barbershop because it's important to
me for when I'm in front of customers, my appearance
matters most, right, So I always try to find a barbershop,
in particular that's in the neighborhood on the way to work.
I try to make sure that I can have convenience
(20:08):
to go and stop buy. There a barbershop in the
black community or even in my community, it's a place
to go. And you know, talking about the inner community,
talk about the things that are happening into the culture.
Anything that you could talk about or think about. It
goes on at the barbershop, your network. You make connections,
You tell the stories about your kids, your wife, your girlfriend,
(20:31):
or going in this case, you know about your health.
You know a lot of us men I wouldn't even
say in the black community because it's important. In our community.
We're so macho. We don't want to talk about those
daunting things about your health blood pressure, diabetes, or whatever
(20:52):
the case may be. And one day I came into
the barbershop and I see this sign in the window.
When I see these people in the back life what's
going on? Someone had a heart attack or something like?
What are these people back here getting their blood pressure check?
They're like, Oh, no, Marcus, maybe you should go back
there and talk to them. So I went back and
I talked to him to kind of find out what
(21:12):
was going on, and I was intrigued. They told me that, hey,
you know, we know that there's a lot of you
guys that don't either a have a medical or can
go and you know, see a doctor, and so we
want to, you know, share this program with the inner city.
And we thought it would be great for a place
where men like yourself, women who frequent these locations on
(21:36):
a weekly, monthly basis. So that's the reason that I joined.
I was one who you know, about eleven years ago,
I was an alcoholic. I'm still an alcoholic, but I'm recovering, right.
So my blood pressure was all over the board, you know,
drinking and using and all those different things that I
(21:57):
did to my body. When I went to the doctor,
they couldn't keep track of it, and they wanted to
always throw these different drugs at me, like okay, take
this and then try that. Well, that was doing more
harm to me then just you know, I could have
just went out there and kept using and boozing, right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So why am I doing all this work?
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Exactly? So I'm thinking like, okay, great, like I need
to find something that's going to work for me, for
an African American black male, right, And dealing with my
medical profession, I found out that taking all these different drugs,
it may have worked for a period of time, but
then the side effects was horrible. I encountered a couple
(22:41):
of horrific side effects, you know. One was and the
ogima of the lip where my lip burst because that
particular blood prussure medicine didn't jive with my body, with
my culture, right. So when I met a dare and
she started educating me on and you know, the different
(23:01):
formularities for the different cultures.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
She gave me hope, this is the pharmacist at the barbershop.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Yes, I sat down in the chair and the data
she did my blood pressure, it was through the roof.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
So I wanted to change. I wanted something different. And
at the time I had changed my life. I had
stopped drinking and using, and so I was on the
path to just like, you know, all the harm that
I did to my body over the year is now
it's time to you know, kind of get back in
front of it and kind of, you know, make sure
that I'm doing the right things.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
So, yeah, she.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Did my blood pressure. She's like, oh my god, I
need to connect with your doctor. What are you taking.
I told everything I was taking, told her all the
bad side effects that I had, and she's like, yes,
there's a lot of hospitals and doctors that they have
this formula. And so she was like, you know, hey,
these things don't work for everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Right, It's not a one size fits all exact situation.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So she caught my attention and so
she said, are you willing to get involved? I'm like sure,
And so it was convenient.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And Natalie, that convenience made a huge difference for the program,
didn't it.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
The beauty of having the pharmacists there in the shops
doing regular checkups because people get their haircut. Guys in
particular get their haircut pretty regularly, right, So it actually
is again sort of this great idea to meld the
two together. We've got a good cadence of people coming
in routinely to get you know, their hair trimmed up,
(24:37):
look nice and sharp. And it's a great opportunity to say, hey,
I changed your medication. Is there enough medication now that
your blood pressures at goal? Or should we keep going?
Do we need to give you another medication? Also, how
are you feeling? Did you have side effects?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Right?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
If you stop that medication and you're not going to
see me in my office for three months, that's a
large missed opportunity. Whereas if you're in the barbershop that
pharmacist is seeing you and you say, hey, I stopped it.
I didn't like that medicine. My feet swelled up. There
you go, there is you know, this quick turnaround time,
and okay, let's stop that and start a new medicine.
(25:14):
So there's just so much opportunity. And I think Cedar
Sigin I really saw how important and how impactful this
intervention was, and so over the years, we've you know,
really continued trying to push this, trying to promote this
method of community centered care to continue because it is
(25:38):
just so it's honestly mind boggling how much improvement we
can see by having this sort of intervention. And so
if we see that it works, why not do it? Marcus,
We've talked about the barbershop being a safe space, a
comfortable place where the community can gather and just talk
about stuff. Was it weird to have a pharmacist there
(25:59):
to take your blood pressure?
Speaker 6 (26:01):
It was daunting because I'm looking at the other people,
you know, the other men that kind of hide behind
that whole kind of machoism, right, And so I'm saying
to myself, like, well, maybe I can be the breakthrough.
Maybe if they see me coming in there, and maybe
(26:22):
if I take that first step and go ahead, And
you know, because she called my attention. But I was
kind of like, Okay, how is this going to work? Hm,
after our first conversation, it didn't matter how it worked
because of the fact that she came with knowledge, She
came with the things that she was telling me. She
had backing behind it, right, And so I'm one that
(26:45):
if I see something good, like I'm in sales, so
I'm gonna sell it. Right, that's great, And so I
sold it like everyone that came in there, and they
saw me. Right. So here's a great opportunity within our community,
within our barbershop that you can do a two for
one shot. Right, come in here, you get groomed, go
(27:06):
check your blood pressure, make sure you don't walk out
of this barbershop and Paul, because you have a stroke.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So scary. Yeah, I mean exactly when we talk to
doctor Bellow, she was saying, you know, a lot of
people don't even know they have high blood pressure. It's
something they don't even understand is happening to them because
they don't recognize the symptoms, or maybe they don't have
very many symptoms.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Right, right, You're absolutely right. It's not treated. I think
some of the reason why it's been called The silent
killer is because unlike other diseases where you might feel
something abnormal, you could have very high blood pressure and
feel okay. Some people do get blurry vision or headaches
or swelling, but often people go decades with very high
(27:54):
blood pressure levels and because they either don't have the
opportunity to interact with a healthcare provider, or sometimes it
gets kind of blown off. Oh you rushed you know,
you know what it's like. Uh, you were waiting in
the waiting room. You're angry, you're late for something. Why
is the doctor late. Oh, their blood pressures a little
high because we rush them in. We'll check it next time,
(28:16):
and maybe next time is two, three, five years, and
that missed opportunity. The person doesn't feel unwell. So that's
the sort of silent killer aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Marcus, what made you interested in participating in the study.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
I was eager to get my blood pressure down. I
was eager to get on the right pass because my
blood pressure, believe it or not, it affected me in
more ways than one. It affected my personal life. It
affected my ability to think clearly because of the headaches.
It affected a lot of things in I didn't want
to lose out on my marriage. I didn't want to
(28:54):
lose out. You know that I succumbed to some detrimental
health issues and couldn't see my grandchildren or my kids. Right,
So I was eager. And so the first maybe three months,
I saw a downward trend, right, I saw my numbers
going down. She took me off the medicines that I
(29:17):
was on, put me on the ones that study proven
for African American men that this would work and this
would alleviate all of those other things that men think
that it's going to play a part in their livelihood. Right,
first thing we think of is going, it's just gonna
do this, It's going to do that. The next month,
(29:40):
going to the second quarter, I started seeing I'm starting
She's giving me a target, and I'm hitting those targets right,
And so now I'm emotional because now it's a life changer.
Right now, it's like, uh, I'm not being this study.
(30:00):
I'm being like I'm being like someone that cares. It's
not like, Okay, I'm coming here and I'm doing this
job and I have a thousand patients, but I don't
have time to spend time with each patient. So I'm
just going to give you this prescription, and you taken
(30:22):
to come back and let me know if you had whatever.
This lady, this study, they honed into the culture.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Yeah, they.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
They cared. And so that made me become an advocate.
It was like, I'm proof in the pudding where it's
like my blood pressure was here and guys, let me
tell you something. My blood pressure is down. I'm in
the right range. I'm not a walking time bomb where
(30:55):
my head is about to explode, have an aneurysm, or
whatever the case may be. My livelihood is back, my
relations are great, all these different things that I can
share with them. I'm the proof in the pudding. Don't
be scared. You know the only thing that I can
tell you is that the little prick that they take
your blood, it's okay. It's a second, a millisecond.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
So the more that I went and the more that
I hit my target, because I love hitting targets. I
love get at home right, that made me really really
want to get involved. That made me want to be
an advocate. That made me want to do whatever you
want me to do to talk about this program called me.
(31:38):
So I was not only in magazines. There was times
I just stopped out of the barbershop when I knew
that they were there, weren't even my appointment, just to
let them know, Hey, guys, did you guys sign up
in the back?
Speaker 5 (31:48):
M h.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
It's a game changer. Go sign up.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
That's amazing. That's amazing. I mean truly life changing for you,
but then life changing for other people that you can touch,
that you can you know, inspire to go, Hey, this works.
It's working. That's what's so amazing about it. It's working,
you know, Yeah, absolutely, Eric. What was the study like
(32:12):
for you?
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Well, for me, I'd say I had the best experience
out of all of the other shops that were involved
because I was able to be trained directly by doctor
Victor himself since I was the first one. It was
doctor Victor himself that showed me how to put the
blood pressure cuff on properly, and he and you know,
and he gave me a lot of information during that
(32:35):
time that helped me out a lot. And during that time,
those those small things that I think that the community
will hold in their head that keep them back. When
you know that those little things don't really matter, and
the changes it it gives you a different viewpoint of
(32:57):
the direction of how to fix the problem too. And
so with him, Yeah, training me and just saying certain
things to me that eased me that I knew may
have been a problem for someone else helped me to
be able to do the same.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
That's amazing. I didn't realize you had training from doctor Victor.
That's really cool. It sounds like it was a positive
experience overall. What was your feeling about it. Were you
excited as it continued and you saw progress? What did
that feel like?
Speaker 5 (33:28):
Well? I loved the whole experience. I loved having the
staff in there. I kind of didn't like to see
them go. Yeah, when we got to a stumbling block
and couldn't recruit anymore barbershops, doctor Victor asked me for
some assistance. At that point, I knew that he had
(33:53):
a very good program, and I knew that his heart
wasn't a good place, and that was always important for me.
That's it's beyond the data for you. And so he
had a genuine desire to really understand this problem and
fix it. And when you have someone with that much passion,
(34:14):
I think it's pretty easy to get whisked in behind
them and go ye. You know, it's a magical thing
when you have that type of love and desire. And
so when I saw that in him, and I saw
that drive, and I knew that his heart was good,
I had no problem. And then I went on the
(34:38):
streets and I went to talk to the barbers myself.
Good for you, and dispel everything that you were concerned about.
I know, I understand, I know we all have been
through this. And luckily, again, I had been around for
quite some time at that point, I'd been open for
fifteen years, and so I knew a lot of the guys,
(35:01):
and well, they just needed someone that they needed a
common face, yep. And we started picking up shops and
we started picking up help. And that was what I
wanted to make sure that the study understands that without
the barber's nuds, you can forget about it. Yeah, it's
(35:22):
not just us opening the door to let you in,
because when you leave, you go.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I think a lot of it is that trust.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
There was a Time magazine article I read about this
and they said, really like they felt like the story
was about trust as much as medicine. Really, absolutely, what
do you think about that? I think that that's so true.
And I think, you know, and I say this as
a white woman, but you know the fact that people
were brave enough and people like Eric and some of
(35:55):
the other guys out there were willing to vouch for
this and say, hey, let's give this a shock because
we're going to benefit from this. I think being able
to go into a situation where you see someone who
looks like you providing care, that just sort of breaks
down some of the hesitation that people can have when
(36:17):
they're accessing care. Sure feel a little more comfortable asking
questions that you might not. I mean, I feel the
same way when I have a female doctor compared to
a male doctor. There are things that I can say
to her that we have shared experiences, and so I
think it's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
That's what I think was part of the secret sauce,
because medicine doesn't have a good track record of, you know,
doing the best thing always for people. And I think
we still deal with the legacy of systemic racism and
things like what happened in Tuskegee and at many other
medical centers. And you know, I think that onus is
(36:58):
on us now to make it safe and how people
feel like it's okay to trust us, because I don't
blame people for saying, hey, I don't want to be
part of a research study, what are you going to
do to me? And so I think that speaks it
like the importance of trust really and how special this
intervention was because you do have that relationship building, Marcus.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Our show is called the ripple effect. You know, we're
always curious about the ways that one idea can spread
its ripples to affect the lives of so many others.
And it seems to me that you're one of those ripples.
How did this study affect you?
Speaker 6 (37:35):
What made me look at the world differently is that
you know, again I mentioned, you know the damage that
I did earlier into my body, right, and I wasn't
the only one in my circle. There was others that
was in my circle. And you know, just one of
my brethrooms. They passed away on January the sixth, so
(37:57):
this year, and I spoke to him on Christmas and
he told me that, Marcus, you changed my life. I
didn't stop soon enough, but you changed my life. Whatever
I can tell you is that you have to continue
to tell your story. And so part of my story
(38:20):
is not only being sober. But part of my story
is also being take care of you. Go to the doctor,
and I promise you, Jenna. When I got off the phone,
I called all of my friends. When is the last
time you've been to the doctor. When is the last
time you checked your sugar? When is the last time
(38:40):
you check your blood pressure? Go to the doctor. I
put something on Facebook about my friend. He's very known
in the community, and I put at the end, go
to the doctor. Do you know how many people that
have responded and said thank you? That's a life changer.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
It is.
Speaker 6 (38:58):
That's a life changer. It's a life changer when you
can a jump over the hurdles, Like we have hurdles
throughout our life every day. But if you can make
it over one hurdle, you can back up and you
run again, and you can make it over the second
and the third, but you have to make the effort.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That's beautiful. I'm so sorry about your friend, and I'm
grateful for the example that you're sharing, Natalie. Was there something.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
About this study and what you've seen from it that
surprised you even more than the data. Was there something
that touched you or made you go, oh wow, I
didn't even think of that.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
So I will say since.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
I've become involved in the study and I've had a
chance to meet some of the guys who were in
the original study, that to me has been part of
the most amazing and also the thing that sort of
kept us going along is hearing how it impacted people's lives.
(39:57):
Hearing some of the guys I really just took this
education and knowledge and then shared it with their sons,
their friends, their coworkers, and you know, I think you
talk about this ripple effect. This all it took was
(40:18):
one person, and how many lives they've touched, You know,
you can't count what didn't happen. But that, to me
is the most exciting part is to see these guys
a decade later who still have their blood pressure controlled,
who are still going to the doctor, who are encouraging
people in their communities to do this, They're participating in
(40:39):
health fairs, they're getting out knowledge in all different ways.
That to me is sort of doctor Victor's legacy. And
I always get choked up about it because it's like,
I hope I can do something like that with my
career as well.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Well. It sounds like you are you're continuing, I'm trying.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, yeah, No, I mean, and what you're talking about
can be like generational. I mean you're talking fathers, sons,
family members, uncles, brothers. I mean, just teaching and sharing
and that changes, you know, the son who listens and goes, Oh,
I want to make sure I always go to the
doctor and I always know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And that's amazing and it is exactly what we talk about.
We're the ripple effect. We need more people who are
open to trying new things, even when it might not
be the normal thing or it might feel Oh, I
don't know, this is different. And I'm grateful that this
was such a positive experience for you.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You were so open to the idea of the study
working in your community, and you were able to create
so many ripples. So what advice would you have for
others looking to do good and create their own ripples.
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Well, you know, when it comes down to creating a ripple,
you don't think about doing it before it happens.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
That's true.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
You just do something and it ripple happens. So the
most important thing is to do something because in the
process of having an idea if it sits inside your
head with no action now, then the idea will die.
(42:23):
So now we've empowered not just the barbers, but we've
shown the customers and the clients too that with one
small action you can create a change in yourself and
in many others. And so if you can look at
the beautiful ripple and get excited about it, I think
(42:47):
you'll want to make more ripples.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's what I think too, And that's what we're trying
to do. Inspire people to create more, to do more
because we need it in this world. And we're so
grateful for you. Eric, Thanks so much for chatting with us.
It's been a real.
Speaker 5 (43:01):
Pleasure, absolutely my pleasure as well. You know. I want
to thank you, and I want to say thank you
for not just having me on the show, but for
having this show inspiring people to do something. For me,
that's just the foundation and just doing something, because so
(43:26):
many of us sit back and wait for something to
happen and complain when it doesn't happen. Well, if you
do something, if you start something, you're much further ahead
than starting nothing. So for you, I thank you and
I commend you for having something and doing something that
(43:47):
helps helping people in a tremendous way. So thank you
for having me and thank you for having your show.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
You know, I want to give a big shout out
to a Dare She She was amazing inspiration, you know,
very smart. I want to give a shout out to
the Cedar Side nineteen and the whole all of the
doctors and funding behind it. Whoever thought of this, Big kudos,
life changing. You saved my life, I know, and I
(44:16):
just wish that there's more funding that comes to play
for things like this. You know, this world has, you know,
is trying to take away health and all the different
benefits and even on a micro level, for you guys
to come out and go to the barbershops, the beauty
shops and touch the people within the inner city. I
(44:38):
take my head off. I'm proud to be a part
of this study. Like I tell my higher power that
utilize me in the way that I can help others.
And I say this to the study, utilize me to
help others, and I'm there.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Well, I'm so grateful for your example, just the idea
that you took this and you made it even bigger.
You know, you made the steps to change your life
and change your health, and then you turned around and
are sharing that with other people. That ripple effect, I
know will continue to go beyond. And I'm so grateful
for you chatting with us today. Thank you so much, Marcus. Okay,
(45:22):
so it sounds like we've got to get barbershop studies
funded around the country. That's step one and obviously very
easy one. Okay, but really think about this. This study
shows that medical care doesn't have to feel cold or complicated.
It doesn't have to feel scary intimidating. Sometimes it can
just sound like a happy place where clippers are buzzing
(45:43):
and laughters in the background, and someone you trust is saying, hey,
why don't you do this, let's take care of you.
I'm wondering where else could we implement this kind of healthcare,
Where else can we bring the healthcare to the people.
I would love this. It would make my life so
much more comfortable because I'm kind of scared to go
and I would love to be able to be in
a safe place with people I know care about me.
(46:06):
What doctor Bellow and her colleagues created alongside barbers and
community members like Marcus, it's a blueprint for thinking differently
about care. One rooted in respect, partnership, and dignity, and
the ripple effects of that kind of thinking they're enormous.
So if you want to dig deeper into the study
or learn more about how this work came together, check
(46:28):
out the show notes. It's powerful stuff and it's all there.
And of course I want to hear from you. The
next time you're thinking about helping, whether it's health service
or community, ask yourself this, where do people already feel safe?
That might be where real change can begin. I don't
know what do you think? Tag me at Jenakin Jones
or use the hashtag ripple effect and we can talk
(46:50):
about it until next time. Stay curious, stay connected, and
please keep those ripples moving outward.
Hey there, I'm Jenikim Jones and welcome back to The
Ripple Effect, the show that reminds us that meaningful change
doesn't always start in a hospital or.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
A courtroom or a boardroom. Sometimes it starts in a
barber's chair. That's right, I want you to picture a
barber shop for a second. Right, the sound of the
Clippers sports on TV.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Conversations that manage to cover everything you know, from family
drama to politics to who's winning this weekend. Barbershops are
places where people show up regularly, they relax, and most importantly,
they trust the people around them. Okay, so now picture
someone coming into that barbershop and being like, hey can
I take your blood pressure? WHOA slow down? That probably
(00:48):
sounds a little bit strange or like maybe not the
right place. Okay. I mean if someone came in while
I was getting my haircut and they're like, hey, can
I take your blood pressure? I'd be like, no, you cannot.
I shot gun todyke ok and Donald's French Fry on
the way over. This is not gonna go well for me.
But truly, what if bringing your health care into a
(01:09):
familiar space that people trust, Maybe that's the missing ingredient
to really helping people. Today's episode is all about a
groundbreaking study out of Los Angeles that asked a simple
but radical question, what if we stopped asking people to
navigate a healthcare system that doesn't always work for them,
and instead brought care directly into a place where they
(01:31):
already feel safe. The Los Angeles Barbershop Blood Pressure Study
partnered black barbers with medical professionals to help treat high
blood pressure in black men, which is a condition often
called the silent killer and one that often goes untreated.
The results they weren't just better, they were dramatically better.
(01:52):
Today I'm joined by doctor Natalie Bellow, one of the
physicians behind the study, along with Eric Muhammad, a barber
who participated first hand, and Marcus Bird, a client whose
life was directly impacted by this work. This conversation is
about trust, innovation, and rethinking where serious things are allowed
to happen. So let's pull up a chair. Let's talk
(02:14):
about the ripple effects of meeting people exactly where they are.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Oh my goodness, doctor Bellow, thank you so much for
joining us today and taking time.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
To talk with us. We are really excited to have
you on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Thanks for having me, Johanna, I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I would love to learn a little bit about you
first before we dive into our topic today. Tell me
about you and how you became a cardiologist.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
As you said, I am a cardiologist. I have training
in both preventive cardiology, and I often say to my patients,
my job is to keep you away from people like me.
If I'm doing my job, you should never have to
see a cardiologist, which is sort of the beauty of
the barbershop study that we'll talk about later. I also
(03:05):
have training in cardiovascular imaging, so I love pictures and
looking at things. I'm a very visual person and so
that's part of what I do with my patients every day,
show them pictures of their heart, help them understand how
it works. If something's not working so well, what we're
going to fix. And I guess I got into cardiology
(03:25):
one because I like talking to people, helping people. And
I had several members of my own family who were
affected by heart disease, and so as I was going
through medical school, sort of resonated with me, why not
focus on something that affected my life personally and also
cardiovascular disease is the leading killer of people in the
(03:48):
United States, both men and women, and most women think
that it's breast cancer. And so I feel like that's
part of my mission is to get the word out
there that heart disease is what we have to be
careful about. And importantly, eighty percent of heart disease is preventable.
So things like controlling blood pressure, which the Barbershop study
(04:08):
has taught us how to do, are so so important
to keep people healthy.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Okay, I didn't know that about women. So I've learned
something today.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Great, hopefully everybody listening.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I know I'm going to be Oh, that's something to
add to my list of things to think about here.
That's so interesting, and you know, it's oftentimes it seems
like the things that you know hit us personally lead
you to what you want to do. So that's really
cool that you chose to get into cardiology and take
on that challenge of letting people know that we can
(04:39):
do something about it. Absolutely, So let's dive into this
study that we're going to talk about. Can you tell
me a little bit about doctor Ronald Victor this was
sort of his idea, And tell me a little bit
about how this study came to be.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
So doctor Victor was a cardiologist at Cedar Sinai in
Los Angeles where I currently am also now I've taken
over his position as the director of Hypertension. So doctor
Victor was really a visionary when it comes to thinking
about how can we meet people where they're at, provide
(05:17):
healthcare to them in their environment, whether it's where they live, work, play, prey.
But you know, so often medicine is people coming to
us in our clinics, in our hospitals, and we know
that's not very convenient. So the original LA Barbershops study
(05:40):
took two groups of men across Los Angeles centered around
different barber shops, and one group was considered the usual
care group, where the barbers were educated about high blood pressure,
taught how to measure blood pressure. Blood pressure readings were
done in the barber shops, and people were educated about
(06:01):
what their numbers were, if they were normal or if
they were high. If they were high, they were given
information about high blood pressure, told to see their doctors.
That was all that was on, so sort of like
a community health screening. The intervention arm had pharmacists in
their shops and they were randomized by barber shops, so
(06:23):
an entire barber shop would either be pamphlets or have
a pharmacist so that there wasn't cross contamination of somebody
sitting there and being like, oh, hey, I heard what
that pharmacist said. I'm going to go do that too.
So in the intervention, arm pharmacists were paired with the
individuals who had high blood pressure in the shops. They
(06:44):
would go in measure blood pressure, prescribe medications to individuals
to get their blood pressure to goal, and then have
discussions with them to make sure their medications were being tolerated, okay,
answer any questions or concerns, and then you know, sort
of keep measuring blood pressure until they were at where
(07:04):
we wanted their blood pressure to be. And so that
was really the special sauce was having that pharmacist there
who could be a resource for people to ask questions,
but also could just provide the care right there, right then,
without having any lag periods.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And you saw pretty dramatic results.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Yes, there absolutely were. So when everybody started, the average
blood pressure, the systemic blood pressure was one hundred and
fifty two to one hundred and fifty four millimeters of
mercury really high. So just to put it in perspective, now,
we want blood pressure to be less than one hundred
and thirty over eighty, so pretty far away from goal.
(07:46):
By six months, in the group that had access to
the pharmacists, their blood pressure declined by twenty seven millimeters
of mercury. In the control group, where people were told
your bloo pressure's high, see your doctor and many of
them did, their blood pressure only went down by about
nine millimeters of mercury. So, I mean, it's just a
(08:09):
remarkable intervention.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That's amazing. So this study gets off the ground. What
was the reaction?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Do you kind of know how people felt about it
when it was pitched? I mean, is this something doctors
were excited about.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I remember reading the results when they came out in
the New England Journal of Medicine, which is sort of
our you know, Oscars of Medicine. This is the place
to go grow when something new and exciting comes out.
And just to put it in perspective, a typical medication
lowers blood pressure maybe five millimeters of mercury, seven millimeters
(08:47):
of mercury. But each one millimeter of mercury, if you
can lower blood pressure to get it to gold that
can help prevent heart attack, stroke, and even dementia. So
every little bit counts. And the amazing thing I remember
reading this paper and saying, I can't believe. So by
just putting pharmacists in the community, having them interact with
(09:08):
people in barbershops, having barber's liaise with the pharmacists and
introduce them to their patients members clients to build this
trust and to get people on medications to talk through
side effects, they were able to reduce blood pressure by
more than twenty seven millimeters of mercury. Oh my god,
(09:30):
which is a mind boggling come out. And it really
it just sort of speaks to all you have to
do is be there, talk to people, establish relationships. Eric
Muhammad who was sort of our lead barber, and I
think the relationship between Ron and Eric is a really
(09:51):
special one. And Ron and Eric worked together, and Eric
really went out and vouched for this study in the
community and said, hey, these people are here, let's give
this a shot. They're looking to help us. You know,
high blood pressure is an issue. Black men are dying.
Why don't we see how this works for us? And
(10:14):
he really went out helped recruit other barbers he led.
You know, he in his own barber shop, was a
shop in the study and helped enroll patients.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well, we're fortunate enough to have Eric joining us today. Eric,
welcome to The Ripple Effect. As doctor Bellow just mentioned,
you were a real part of this study success.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Thank you Jennifer for having me. It is such a
pleasure and honor to be on your show today.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
We feel like it's an honor because you're actually in
Thailand right now.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Yes, I currently live in Thailand.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That is amazing. I have family in Thailand, so I
understand the appeal. It's a fantastic place.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Really. What part of Thailand they live in?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Bangkok?
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, where are you at?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
I'm in Buquet. Oh, that's a.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Great place to be. I've been there and it's beautiful.
So yes, I know Thailand well. But I know that
the time difference from where I am and Thailand is
twelve hours. So thank you so much for doing this.
Tell me about your barbershop and what your community was like.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
You know, it's definitely a piece of the past that
may never be revisited again. The old barber shops have died.
I was even considered a new barbershop at one point
to the old barbers and the old barbershops. Although I
had been raised by them, and I kept a lot
(11:35):
of the spirit that the old barbershop had, I added
some new things. Most barbershops are now private booths and
appointment only, whereas in the old days appointments were unheard
of and the barbershop barbers didn't make appointments. They came
in as a walk in. They waited. Why because there
(11:56):
was a conversation. There was a basketball game, of football game,
a chess game to be played, and something to do.
It's a place to get away. At least you knew
if Saturday, Hey, I'm going to the barbershop, I got
three or four hours I can get away from the house.
The yeat a god. Barbershop had that we had conversation.
(12:17):
We were open to all conversation. I don't care if
you were two years old, if you could talk, I
wanted to hear from you, because if you have something
to say, we all should listen. It was a safe haven.
I grew up in an area where the color was blue,
and I opened up my barbershop where the color was red.
I have friends that are colored blue and now I
(12:40):
have friends that are wearing color red. We all must
come together, we all grow hair, and so it became
a spot where at least in this area, right here,
there would be peace.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
How did you come to find out years back about
the study? Were you interested in it right away when
you heard of it? How did that all come about?
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Well, in the barbershop, we often come across people looking
for customers because we have a lot of them, and
in the medical field, a customer is a patient. So
we'll have them come and they'll spend a day an hour,
and they'll look to get involved with our customer base,
(13:28):
and then they leave. They do nothing, they don't help anybody,
They take their information and then they next thing, you know,
I don't know, you're getting a phone call about something else.
I got a phone call one day and there was
a young lady on the other end asking me if
i'd be interested in a blood pressure study. I said, sure,
(13:49):
no problem, of course, I'm thinking here, you'll come from
one day again and you'll leave. Well, that wasn't the
case in this situation. They laying to me that no,
we would be there for a couple of weeks to
a month, acquiring data, and information on your customer base,
and then we would continue to care for them for
(14:11):
a year. Well, now my ears are wide open. I
couldn't believe what I was hearing. Yeah, and I said, well, sure,
of course, I'd love to. And the pharmacist that made
the phone call was surprised. I could hear it in
her voice, and so she says, are you sure? I
said yes, I'm sure. So I told her I would
(14:33):
be more than happy to be involved. And so she
came by with the doctor and we met and we
set up and I told them we're ready to go.
When we got started, it was a beautiful beginning because
we were the first shot.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Do you think that when you were talking to the
pharmacist and she's pitching you this idea, you know, you said,
she sounded like surprised you were into it. Why do
you think she was surprised?
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Well, I know why she was surprised. Everyone said, no, okay,
because most of us don't like it. We don't because
the norm is, like I said, you come and you
go and you do nothing, and you really just get
in our way. And you want to come on a
Saturday where we're at our most busiest, right and we
don't want to get involved in that. So yeah, most
(15:25):
barbershops said no in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
And you know, if people are scared, listen to them.
What are you afraid of? Maybe you know someone who
took a medication and had a really bad reaction. Let's
talk through that. Maybe you've had bad reactions. And pharmacists
are amazing, amazing human beings who have so much knowledge
and are such a wonderful compliment to what I do
(15:49):
as a physician. I love having pharmacists on my team
because they have the time and the skill and the
knowledge to talk through those things and to say, hey, actually,
maybe this medicine isn't the best one for this person.
Because I noticed XYZ. So it really was sort of
a genius idea to put the people with the knowledge
in there and just just get them out with boots
(16:12):
on the ground.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Okay, So Eric, how did this all come together in
your shop? How was this all set up?
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Well, you know, if I recall, it had to have
happened sometime around the beginning of the year, because most
of my clients thought that I was doing tax preparations.
We had tables, yeah, and staff that people have never
seen before with must.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Have been a big year for you. I guess all
these tables and computers.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
So no, we're doing We're doing a blood pressure study
and everyone gets a free reading. And I wanted to
make sure. And I know we have a guideline of
a customer base that you want, but I have a
total guideline of customer that need help. So although everyone
is not mail and over the age of thirty five
(17:06):
that comes in here, everyone that walks through this door
that wants a blood pressure reason should get one and
then they can make a decision as to what they
want to do.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, your customers, your clients, did they jump on board?
Was everybody okay, sure take my blood pressure? Or were
people kind of I'm not interested? This is my space.
I'm not I don't want to do that here.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Well, you know, even in my environment, with my support
and my nudging, you still have to understand it. The
reason why they're here is because black men don't go
to the doctor. And now the doctor is here. I
still don't want to see you, right right, So that
(17:49):
doesn't make a difference whether I come to you or
you come to me. I don't want to see you
because most of the time you have bad news. So yes,
of course we had mixed emotions. We had a lot
of men. No, absolutely, I do not want to even
know what it is today, let alone join the program
(18:11):
when they found out that they needed the program.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Right. Did you have any people who change their minds
over time, who you know because they come in again
they see, okay, these guys are still here. Maybe they
heard from somebody else that it was going well. Did
anybody say no in the beginning and then change their
mind I.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Would have to say that's eighty percent of the people
that joined.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Really, Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
That know in the beginning and then eventually came back
around due to persistence and the fact that they were
there again. You can't be there for one day. See,
they're gonna turn you down thinking you're not gonna be
here next week.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right exactly, Oh, well they'll go away.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I don't have to deal it's impossible for you to
be here next week, or sure, I'll do it next time, right,
and next time they're still here, and we may sure
that we contacted everyone. I even changed the scheduling for
one particular client of mine that only got his haircut
at six o'clock in the morning. Oh my goodness, on Saturday,
(19:12):
can you have a staff come at six o'clock and
get him because I think he needs our help. Wow.
And he'd ended up becoming our spokesperson. Can you imagine that?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
He was in the commercials most of the publishing for
all of the news media and outlet. He's on the picture.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Yeah, And we had we had to bribe him, We
had had to get the staff to come in early.
Is this Marcus, that's Mark, Yes, that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Well, let's meet Marcus. Marcus. Welcome to the Ripple Effect.
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Absolutely. My name is Marcus Byrd. I'm in hospitality, uh,
and I'm always at the barbershop because it's important to
me for when I'm in front of customers, my appearance
matters most, right, So I always try to find a barbershop,
in particular that's in the neighborhood on the way to work.
I try to make sure that I can have convenience
(20:08):
to go and stop buy. There a barbershop in the
black community or even in my community, it's a place
to go. And you know, talking about the inner community,
talk about the things that are happening into the culture.
Anything that you could talk about or think about. It
goes on at the barbershop, your network. You make connections,
You tell the stories about your kids, your wife, your girlfriend,
(20:31):
or going in this case, you know about your health.
You know a lot of us men I wouldn't even
say in the black community because it's important. In our community.
We're so macho. We don't want to talk about those
daunting things about your health blood pressure, diabetes, or whatever
(20:52):
the case may be. And one day I came into
the barbershop and I see this sign in the window.
When I see these people in the back life what's
going on? Someone had a heart attack or something like?
What are these people back here getting their blood pressure check?
They're like, Oh, no, Marcus, maybe you should go back
there and talk to them. So I went back and
I talked to him to kind of find out what
(21:12):
was going on, and I was intrigued. They told me that, hey,
you know, we know that there's a lot of you
guys that don't either a have a medical or can
go and you know, see a doctor, and so we
want to, you know, share this program with the inner city.
And we thought it would be great for a place
where men like yourself, women who frequent these locations on
(21:36):
a weekly, monthly basis. So that's the reason that I joined.
I was one who you know, about eleven years ago,
I was an alcoholic. I'm still an alcoholic, but I'm recovering, right.
So my blood pressure was all over the board, you know,
drinking and using and all those different things that I
(21:57):
did to my body. When I went to the doctor,
they couldn't keep track of it, and they wanted to
always throw these different drugs at me, like okay, take
this and then try that. Well, that was doing more
harm to me then just you know, I could have
just went out there and kept using and boozing, right.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So why am I doing all this work?
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Exactly? So I'm thinking like, okay, great, like I need
to find something that's going to work for me, for
an African American black male, right, And dealing with my
medical profession, I found out that taking all these different drugs,
it may have worked for a period of time, but
then the side effects was horrible. I encountered a couple
(22:41):
of horrific side effects, you know. One was and the
ogima of the lip where my lip burst because that
particular blood prussure medicine didn't jive with my body, with
my culture, right. So when I met a dare and
she started educating me on and you know, the different
(23:01):
formularities for the different cultures.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
She gave me hope, this is the pharmacist at the barbershop.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Yes, I sat down in the chair and the data
she did my blood pressure, it was through the roof.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
So I wanted to change. I wanted something different. And
at the time I had changed my life. I had
stopped drinking and using, and so I was on the
path to just like, you know, all the harm that
I did to my body over the year is now
it's time to you know, kind of get back in
front of it and kind of, you know, make sure
that I'm doing the right things.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
So, yeah, she.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
Did my blood pressure. She's like, oh my god, I
need to connect with your doctor. What are you taking.
I told everything I was taking, told her all the
bad side effects that I had, and she's like, yes,
there's a lot of hospitals and doctors that they have
this formula. And so she was like, you know, hey,
these things don't work for everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Right, It's not a one size fits all exact situation.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So she caught my attention and so
she said, are you willing to get involved? I'm like sure,
And so it was convenient.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And Natalie, that convenience made a huge difference for the program,
didn't it.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
The beauty of having the pharmacists there in the shops
doing regular checkups because people get their haircut. Guys in
particular get their haircut pretty regularly, right, So it actually
is again sort of this great idea to meld the
two together. We've got a good cadence of people coming
in routinely to get you know, their hair trimmed up,
(24:37):
look nice and sharp. And it's a great opportunity to say, hey,
I changed your medication. Is there enough medication now that
your blood pressures at goal? Or should we keep going?
Do we need to give you another medication? Also, how
are you feeling? Did you have side effects?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Right?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
If you stop that medication and you're not going to
see me in my office for three months, that's a
large missed opportunity. Whereas if you're in the barbershop that
pharmacist is seeing you and you say, hey, I stopped it.
I didn't like that medicine. My feet swelled up. There
you go, there is you know, this quick turnaround time,
and okay, let's stop that and start a new medicine.
(25:14):
So there's just so much opportunity. And I think Cedar
Sigin I really saw how important and how impactful this
intervention was, and so over the years, we've you know,
really continued trying to push this, trying to promote this
method of community centered care to continue because it is
(25:38):
just so it's honestly mind boggling how much improvement we
can see by having this sort of intervention. And so
if we see that it works, why not do it? Marcus,
We've talked about the barbershop being a safe space, a
comfortable place where the community can gather and just talk
about stuff. Was it weird to have a pharmacist there
(25:59):
to take your blood pressure?
Speaker 6 (26:01):
It was daunting because I'm looking at the other people,
you know, the other men that kind of hide behind
that whole kind of machoism, right, And so I'm saying
to myself, like, well, maybe I can be the breakthrough.
Maybe if they see me coming in there, and maybe
(26:22):
if I take that first step and go ahead, And
you know, because she called my attention. But I was
kind of like, Okay, how is this going to work? Hm,
after our first conversation, it didn't matter how it worked
because of the fact that she came with knowledge, She
came with the things that she was telling me. She
had backing behind it, right, And so I'm one that
(26:45):
if I see something good, like I'm in sales, so
I'm gonna sell it. Right, that's great, And so I
sold it like everyone that came in there, and they
saw me. Right. So here's a great opportunity within our community,
within our barbershop that you can do a two for
one shot. Right, come in here, you get groomed, go
(27:06):
check your blood pressure, make sure you don't walk out
of this barbershop and Paul, because you have a stroke.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
So scary. Yeah, I mean exactly when we talk to
doctor Bellow, she was saying, you know, a lot of
people don't even know they have high blood pressure. It's
something they don't even understand is happening to them because
they don't recognize the symptoms, or maybe they don't have
very many symptoms.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Right, right, You're absolutely right. It's not treated. I think
some of the reason why it's been called The silent
killer is because unlike other diseases where you might feel
something abnormal, you could have very high blood pressure and
feel okay. Some people do get blurry vision or headaches
or swelling, but often people go decades with very high
(27:54):
blood pressure levels and because they either don't have the
opportunity to interact with a healthcare provider, or sometimes it
gets kind of blown off. Oh you rushed you know,
you know what it's like. Uh, you were waiting in
the waiting room. You're angry, you're late for something. Why
is the doctor late. Oh, their blood pressures a little
high because we rush them in. We'll check it next time,
(28:16):
and maybe next time is two, three, five years, and
that missed opportunity. The person doesn't feel unwell. So that's
the sort of silent killer aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Marcus, what made you interested in participating in the study.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
I was eager to get my blood pressure down. I
was eager to get on the right pass because my
blood pressure, believe it or not, it affected me in
more ways than one. It affected my personal life. It
affected my ability to think clearly because of the headaches.
It affected a lot of things in I didn't want
to lose out on my marriage. I didn't want to
(28:54):
lose out. You know that I succumbed to some detrimental
health issues and couldn't see my grandchildren or my kids. Right,
So I was eager. And so the first maybe three months,
I saw a downward trend, right, I saw my numbers
going down. She took me off the medicines that I
(29:17):
was on, put me on the ones that study proven
for African American men that this would work and this
would alleviate all of those other things that men think
that it's going to play a part in their livelihood. Right,
first thing we think of is going, it's just gonna
do this, It's going to do that. The next month,
(29:40):
going to the second quarter, I started seeing I'm starting
She's giving me a target, and I'm hitting those targets right,
And so now I'm emotional because now it's a life changer.
Right now, it's like, uh, I'm not being this study.
(30:00):
I'm being like I'm being like someone that cares. It's
not like, Okay, I'm coming here and I'm doing this
job and I have a thousand patients, but I don't
have time to spend time with each patient. So I'm
just going to give you this prescription, and you taken
(30:22):
to come back and let me know if you had whatever.
This lady, this study, they honed into the culture.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Yeah, they.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
They cared. And so that made me become an advocate.
It was like, I'm proof in the pudding where it's
like my blood pressure was here and guys, let me
tell you something. My blood pressure is down. I'm in
the right range. I'm not a walking time bomb where
(30:55):
my head is about to explode, have an aneurysm, or
whatever the case may be. My livelihood is back, my
relations are great, all these different things that I can
share with them. I'm the proof in the pudding. Don't
be scared. You know the only thing that I can
tell you is that the little prick that they take
your blood, it's okay. It's a second, a millisecond.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
So the more that I went and the more that
I hit my target, because I love hitting targets. I
love get at home right, that made me really really
want to get involved. That made me want to be
an advocate. That made me want to do whatever you
want me to do to talk about this program called me.
(31:38):
So I was not only in magazines. There was times
I just stopped out of the barbershop when I knew
that they were there, weren't even my appointment, just to
let them know, Hey, guys, did you guys sign up
in the back?
Speaker 5 (31:48):
M h.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
It's a game changer. Go sign up.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
That's amazing. That's amazing. I mean truly life changing for you,
but then life changing for other people that you can touch,
that you can you know, inspire to go, Hey, this works.
It's working. That's what's so amazing about it. It's working,
you know, Yeah, absolutely, Eric. What was the study like
(32:12):
for you?
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Well, for me, I'd say I had the best experience
out of all of the other shops that were involved
because I was able to be trained directly by doctor
Victor himself since I was the first one. It was
doctor Victor himself that showed me how to put the
blood pressure cuff on properly, and he and you know,
and he gave me a lot of information during that
(32:35):
time that helped me out a lot. And during that time,
those those small things that I think that the community
will hold in their head that keep them back. When
you know that those little things don't really matter, and
the changes it it gives you a different viewpoint of
(32:57):
the direction of how to fix the problem too. And
so with him, Yeah, training me and just saying certain
things to me that eased me that I knew may
have been a problem for someone else helped me to
be able to do the same.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
That's amazing. I didn't realize you had training from doctor Victor.
That's really cool. It sounds like it was a positive
experience overall. What was your feeling about it. Were you
excited as it continued and you saw progress? What did
that feel like?
Speaker 5 (33:28):
Well? I loved the whole experience. I loved having the
staff in there. I kind of didn't like to see
them go. Yeah, when we got to a stumbling block
and couldn't recruit anymore barbershops, doctor Victor asked me for
some assistance. At that point, I knew that he had
(33:53):
a very good program, and I knew that his heart
wasn't a good place, and that was always important for me.
That's it's beyond the data for you. And so he
had a genuine desire to really understand this problem and
fix it. And when you have someone with that much passion,
(34:14):
I think it's pretty easy to get whisked in behind
them and go ye. You know, it's a magical thing
when you have that type of love and desire. And
so when I saw that in him, and I saw
that drive, and I knew that his heart was good,
I had no problem. And then I went on the
(34:38):
streets and I went to talk to the barbers myself.
Good for you, and dispel everything that you were concerned about.
I know, I understand, I know we all have been
through this. And luckily, again, I had been around for
quite some time at that point, I'd been open for
fifteen years, and so I knew a lot of the guys,
(35:01):
and well, they just needed someone that they needed a
common face, yep. And we started picking up shops and
we started picking up help. And that was what I
wanted to make sure that the study understands that without
the barber's nuds, you can forget about it. Yeah, it's
(35:22):
not just us opening the door to let you in,
because when you leave, you go.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I think a lot of it is that trust.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
There was a Time magazine article I read about this
and they said, really like they felt like the story
was about trust as much as medicine. Really, absolutely, what
do you think about that? I think that that's so true.
And I think, you know, and I say this as
a white woman, but you know the fact that people
were brave enough and people like Eric and some of
(35:55):
the other guys out there were willing to vouch for
this and say, hey, let's give this a shock because
we're going to benefit from this. I think being able
to go into a situation where you see someone who
looks like you providing care, that just sort of breaks
down some of the hesitation that people can have when
(36:17):
they're accessing care. Sure feel a little more comfortable asking
questions that you might not. I mean, I feel the
same way when I have a female doctor compared to
a male doctor. There are things that I can say
to her that we have shared experiences, and so I
think it's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
That's what I think was part of the secret sauce,
because medicine doesn't have a good track record of, you know,
doing the best thing always for people. And I think
we still deal with the legacy of systemic racism and
things like what happened in Tuskegee and at many other
medical centers. And you know, I think that onus is
(36:58):
on us now to make it safe and how people
feel like it's okay to trust us, because I don't
blame people for saying, hey, I don't want to be
part of a research study, what are you going to
do to me? And so I think that speaks it
like the importance of trust really and how special this
intervention was because you do have that relationship building, Marcus.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Our show is called the ripple effect. You know, we're
always curious about the ways that one idea can spread
its ripples to affect the lives of so many others.
And it seems to me that you're one of those ripples.
How did this study affect you?
Speaker 6 (37:35):
What made me look at the world differently is that
you know, again I mentioned, you know the damage that
I did earlier into my body, right, and I wasn't
the only one in my circle. There was others that
was in my circle. And you know, just one of
my brethrooms. They passed away on January the sixth, so
(37:57):
this year, and I spoke to him on Christmas and
he told me that, Marcus, you changed my life. I
didn't stop soon enough, but you changed my life. Whatever
I can tell you is that you have to continue
to tell your story. And so part of my story
(38:20):
is not only being sober. But part of my story
is also being take care of you. Go to the doctor,
and I promise you, Jenna. When I got off the phone,
I called all of my friends. When is the last
time you've been to the doctor. When is the last
time you checked your sugar? When is the last time
(38:40):
you check your blood pressure? Go to the doctor. I
put something on Facebook about my friend. He's very known
in the community, and I put at the end, go
to the doctor. Do you know how many people that
have responded and said thank you? That's a life changer.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
It is.
Speaker 6 (38:58):
That's a life changer. It's a life changer when you
can a jump over the hurdles, Like we have hurdles
throughout our life every day. But if you can make
it over one hurdle, you can back up and you
run again, and you can make it over the second
and the third, but you have to make the effort.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That's beautiful. I'm so sorry about your friend, and I'm
grateful for the example that you're sharing, Natalie. Was there something.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
About this study and what you've seen from it that
surprised you even more than the data. Was there something
that touched you or made you go, oh wow, I
didn't even think of that.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
So I will say since.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
I've become involved in the study and I've had a
chance to meet some of the guys who were in
the original study, that to me has been part of
the most amazing and also the thing that sort of
kept us going along is hearing how it impacted people's lives.
(39:57):
Hearing some of the guys I really just took this
education and knowledge and then shared it with their sons,
their friends, their coworkers, and you know, I think you
talk about this ripple effect. This all it took was
(40:18):
one person, and how many lives they've touched, You know,
you can't count what didn't happen. But that, to me
is the most exciting part is to see these guys
a decade later who still have their blood pressure controlled,
who are still going to the doctor, who are encouraging
people in their communities to do this, They're participating in
(40:39):
health fairs, they're getting out knowledge in all different ways.
That to me is sort of doctor Victor's legacy. And
I always get choked up about it because it's like,
I hope I can do something like that with my
career as well.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Well. It sounds like you are you're continuing, I'm trying.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, yeah, No, I mean, and what you're talking about
can be like generational. I mean you're talking fathers, sons,
family members, uncles, brothers. I mean, just teaching and sharing
and that changes, you know, the son who listens and goes, Oh,
I want to make sure I always go to the
doctor and I always know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
And that's amazing and it is exactly what we talk about.
We're the ripple effect. We need more people who are
open to trying new things, even when it might not
be the normal thing or it might feel Oh, I
don't know, this is different. And I'm grateful that this
was such a positive experience for you.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You were so open to the idea of the study
working in your community, and you were able to create
so many ripples. So what advice would you have for
others looking to do good and create their own ripples.
Speaker 5 (41:51):
Well, you know, when it comes down to creating a ripple,
you don't think about doing it before it happens.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
That's true.
Speaker 5 (42:00):
You just do something and it ripple happens. So the
most important thing is to do something because in the
process of having an idea if it sits inside your
head with no action now, then the idea will die.
(42:23):
So now we've empowered not just the barbers, but we've
shown the customers and the clients too that with one
small action you can create a change in yourself and
in many others. And so if you can look at
the beautiful ripple and get excited about it, I think
(42:47):
you'll want to make more ripples.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's what I think too, And that's what we're trying
to do. Inspire people to create more, to do more
because we need it in this world. And we're so
grateful for you. Eric, Thanks so much for chatting with us.
It's been a real.
Speaker 5 (43:01):
Pleasure, absolutely my pleasure as well. You know. I want
to thank you, and I want to say thank you
for not just having me on the show, but for
having this show inspiring people to do something. For me,
that's just the foundation and just doing something, because so
(43:26):
many of us sit back and wait for something to
happen and complain when it doesn't happen. Well, if you
do something, if you start something, you're much further ahead
than starting nothing. So for you, I thank you and
I commend you for having something and doing something that
(43:47):
helps helping people in a tremendous way. So thank you
for having me and thank you for having your show.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
You know, I want to give a big shout out
to a Dare She She was amazing inspiration, you know,
very smart. I want to give a shout out to
the Cedar Side nineteen and the whole all of the
doctors and funding behind it. Whoever thought of this, Big kudos,
life changing. You saved my life, I know, and I
(44:16):
just wish that there's more funding that comes to play
for things like this. You know, this world has, you know,
is trying to take away health and all the different
benefits and even on a micro level, for you guys
to come out and go to the barbershops, the beauty
shops and touch the people within the inner city. I
(44:38):
take my head off. I'm proud to be a part
of this study. Like I tell my higher power that
utilize me in the way that I can help others.
And I say this to the study, utilize me to
help others, and I'm there.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Well, I'm so grateful for your example, just the idea
that you took this and you made it even bigger.
You know, you made the steps to change your life
and change your health, and then you turned around and
are sharing that with other people. That ripple effect, I
know will continue to go beyond. And I'm so grateful
for you chatting with us today. Thank you so much, Marcus. Okay,
(45:22):
so it sounds like we've got to get barbershop studies
funded around the country. That's step one and obviously very
easy one. Okay, but really think about this. This study
shows that medical care doesn't have to feel cold or complicated.
It doesn't have to feel scary intimidating. Sometimes it can
just sound like a happy place where clippers are buzzing
(45:43):
and laughters in the background, and someone you trust is saying, hey,
why don't you do this, let's take care of you.
I'm wondering where else could we implement this kind of healthcare,
Where else can we bring the healthcare to the people.
I would love this. It would make my life so
much more comfortable because I'm kind of scared to go
and I would love to be able to be in
a safe place with people I know care about me.
(46:06):
What doctor Bellow and her colleagues created alongside barbers and
community members like Marcus, it's a blueprint for thinking differently
about care. One rooted in respect, partnership, and dignity, and
the ripple effects of that kind of thinking they're enormous.
So if you want to dig deeper into the study
or learn more about how this work came together, check
(46:28):
out the show notes. It's powerful stuff and it's all there.
And of course I want to hear from you. The
next time you're thinking about helping, whether it's health service
or community, ask yourself this, where do people already feel safe?
That might be where real change can begin. I don't
know what do you think? Tag me at Jenakin Jones
or use the hashtag ripple effect and we can talk
(46:50):
about it until next time. Stay curious, stay connected, and
please keep those ripples moving outward.
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