May 7, 2026 • 14 mins
How do some small businesses stand the test of time? In today’s mini episode, Maya talks with Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and host of “The Unshakeables” podcast, about what helps businesses endure across generations – from adaptability and grit to a deep connection with their communities.
This episode was made in partnership with Chase for Business. Listen to “The Unshakeables” here. Listen to our previous conversation with Ben, “Boost Your Resilience At Work.”
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Pushkin Hey everyone. In honor of Small Business Week, I
sat down with Ben Walter, the CEO of Chase for Business.
(00:36):
He's also the host of the Unshakables podcast, where small
business owners share the defining moments that tested them and
how they found a way through at a moment when
so much can feel uncertain. We talked about those comforting
places that hold steady in a sea of change. Maybe
it's a neighborhood market or a family run restaurant, somewhere
(00:59):
that feels familiar and keeps you coming back year after year.
I find it fascinating how local spots like these seem
to carry the history of a neighbor with them, even
as the neighborhood itself changes. Recently, Ben sat down with
the family behind Borgottis, Ravioli and egg Noodle for his podcast,
(01:19):
It's a family run pasta shop that's been on Arthur
Avenue in the Bronx for nearly a century. Arthur Avenue,
known as the Boroughs Little Italy, has long been a
hub for Italian American businesses and culture, But like many
neighborhoods in New York and beyond, it's constantly evolving. As
longtime residents move out and new communities move in. I
(01:41):
wanted to talk to Ben about how a place like
Borgottis doesn't just survive, but stays true to itself, how
it maintains its character over time, what it holds on too,
and where and when it's willing to adapt. I hope
this conversation gets you thinking about the special places in
your community, the change they've outlasted, and the stories they carry. Okay,
(02:03):
here's my conversation with Ben.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
When you meet a business like Borgoeis, you really get
a sense of a business that has this larger purpose,
both in terms of the role that it has played
in the family and the role that it's played in
its community. I think it represents sort of a constant
in a sea of change. You know, there are families
who've been getting their holiday meal from Borgatti's for you know,
(02:29):
over fifty years. You have people who remember eating that
at you know, at Christmas at their grandmothers fifty years ago,
who are still serving the same meal today. And in
a world that feels topsy turvy and you know, changing
faster than ever, I think that brings a source of
comfort to many.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
There's a reason places like Burgottis can feel so emotionally grounding.
Familiar environments contribute to our sense of stability. They remind
us who we are and where we come from. That
can be especially powerful during moments of uncertainty, when our
brain is looking for cues that the world is still
somewhat predictable. A beloved community business can become one of
(03:05):
those stabilizing cues. What elements have endured at borgottis over time,
So whether it's recipes or processes or rituals with customers.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I mean, it's absolutely still the original recipes from I
guess the fourth generation's great great grandmother. They still serve
many of the original families as customers that they did
all those years ago, and they've maintained their absolute commitment
to quality. They don't cheap out on the ingredients, they
don't short circuit the process. They make them the way
(03:37):
that they were always made, with a focus on really
quality product to the customer.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It takes a lot of effort to sustain, like you said,
the quality of a business over time, to make sure
you're not skimping when it comes to high quality ingredients
that you are allowing certain tried and tested processes to
remain in place, so a lot of investment involved in
keeping an establishment like Burgotti's the same over time. What
(04:05):
do you think are some of the biggest threats to
businesses like Borgotti's right now?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Funny enough, the number one threat they as a business
haven't faced, but I see clients face it all the
time is the threat that no one in the business
wants to keep going. Very often it was immigrant families
who started the business, and by the third generation, they're
just interested in a different life. So they are fortunate
to have a really tight knit family that has resisted that.
(04:31):
Number two is neighborhoods do shift. While they have been
able to compensate for it through their online sales, that
has been an issue so that, you know, many of
the original Italian American families have moved out of Little
Italy in the Bronx, so that the character of the
neighborhood has changed. And then finally, there's technology you can
get now decent quality ravioli that is high mass manufactured
(04:56):
that probably wasn't available when they started their shop, you know,
back in nineteen thirty five. Now I still think they
serve a superior product and I've had it. It's delicious
and it's handmade and it's artisanal, and there is a
desire for that. So they've been able to to lean
into that angle of it. But like any business, you know,
they're facing it. Whether it's a changing character of the neighborhood,
a changing character of the technological background, a changing narrative
(05:21):
of customer taste. You know, the world changes.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
One of the hardest parts of adapting to change is
knowing what to keep as is and what to improve.
Flexibility means staying aligned to your deeper values while updating
your strategy as circumstances shift. For a small business owner,
that might mean holding on to the quality, care, or
purpose that drew customers in in the first place, while
(05:45):
also being open to new tools, new customers, and new
ways of reaching them. That balance between continuity and change
is often what resilience looks like. What do you think
are some of the magic ingredients that help a business
like the stick around for so long.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
The number one is adaptability. It's a willingness to change,
but the ones who adapt are the ones who thrive.
I would say second is the absolute, unrelenting grit and
dedication of the owners. Yeah, it's force of will. I
mean these are businesses that have made it through COVID,
through the Great Recession, through all of these things, through
the Great Depression. In this case, that's frankly been probably
(06:21):
the most common trait of the people we've had on
our show, and Borgatt's itself is a great example. Their
key machine broke down at the most important time of
year and they had to figure out what to do.
And that's what small business owners do every day, is
they just find a way through.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
How did they solve for this problem of the machine
breaking down.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
They managed to get it fixed in time, but in
the meantime they were doing an awful lot of stuff
by hand. You'll have to listen to the episode to
get the full details.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Okay, so we talked about adaptability, we talked about grit,
any other traits that you see across companies that somehow
find ways to endure.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
The common thing is a commitment to something larger than
just this year's profit. If you were to talk to
any of the small businesses we have met that have
lasted for years and you ask them what the purpose
of their business is, none of them would talk about
to make money. None of them would talk about their financials.
(07:17):
They would all talk about the product or service that
they provide, the impact that has on the lives of
their customers and their communities. All of them and their
brands are all anchored in that. You cannot make a
business work without the dollars and cents, but it will
not last on dollars and cents only. So whether it's
mission driven, you know, we have businesses who are trying
(07:38):
to solve an environmental problem, or an energy problem, or
a health problem, or businesses like this that are trying
to sort of be part of the fabric of the community.
The ones who last are very rarely focused on this
quarter or even this year beyond sort of the near
term need to run the business. They're running something that
has a higher purpose, and that higher purpose is very personal.
(07:59):
So in the case of Borgatis, it's being part of
the neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, I want to talk a bit about how a
business like Burgottis can contribute to the identity of a community.
How do businesses like this one contribute to positive change
or growth.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I think they do it in a few ways. One
is they give the neighborhood a sense of place. If
you think about that neighborhood you grew up in where
there's that place that you always used to go to
and it's still there all those years later. That gives
the place an anchoring and it gives people confidence to
invest in that area. So that's number one. Number two,
I would say they support more than just their business.
(08:40):
So if you look across the country and survey after
survey reveals this, small business owners are some of the
most philanthropic people in their local communities. Who sponsors your
local softball team, it's the local business in the local
community who wants to have both a business and a
philanthropic impact at home, and they tend to reinvest directly
(09:01):
in their community. So small businesses, they don't just sell locally,
they hire locally. Yeah, and that's a self feeding positive
loop that helps neighborhoods thrive economically.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
What then, is describing goes beyond economics. Relationships are what
transformed a collection of streets and buildings into a neighborhood,
and small businesses are where these relationships flourish, where people
go to gather and to build trusted friendships. Restaurants like
Borgatti's help create a feeling that a place is not
(09:33):
simply where you live, but where you belong. What do
you think communities lose when these kinds of small businesses disappear,
and what role do you think customers community members can
play in helping them survive.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
When neighborhoods lose their small businesses, they lose their character.
It's that simple. And that doesn't just mean retail stores,
by the way. It can be the local law and
care shop, it can be the local doctor. Those businesses
know their local communities in a way that others can't.
They're able to respond to those communities in ways that
others can't. And when you lose that, you don't just
(10:09):
lose the character, you lose the permanence. There's so much
transience in the world today. A little bit of permanence
is a healthy counterbalance.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Couldn't agree more. It's definitely a stabilizing force. And it's
a long term relationship builder, you know it is.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I mean, I live in a small town outside New
York City. I know the dry cleaner personally, I walk in,
I hander my stuff. She knows that I don't like
starch on my shirts, you know, And that's comforting. And
these local communities drive social connection in a way that
goes beyond just friends and family.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, we had the former US Surge in General on
a slight change of plans who talked about the loneliness
epidemic that we're all living through. And there's some really
compelling research from the happiness literature showing that it is
these small daily interactions with people in our community, not
even with our closest friends or our family, that really
(11:03):
help boost our sense of belonging. So the conversation with
the barista, the small interaction you might have at the
laundromat like you were describing, then these are part of
the fabric of our everyday lives and they really do
have a profound impact on our sets of well being
and social lives.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They do. And you also asked what can customers do.
Customers can support their local small businesses.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, you know, our one of the little local supermarkets
was at risk of shutting down. And you do see
communities rally, whether it's to keep a local movie theater alive,
to keep a small grocery store alive. It's actually a
very uplifting thing when you see people say, you know what,
we are not willing to let this particular establishment go.
(11:46):
We'll do what it takes and it's petitions. It's making
sure that they're prioritizing getting their groceries from the small grocery,
you know.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And you know sometimes sometimes that does come at a
bit of a price premium, but you give what you
pay for.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
If someone's thinking, you know, I want to I want
to start something from scratch and I want it to
endure for decades to come, what advice would you give
to them?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I would say, first of all, really do your research
on what you're going to do and why. Know why
you'll be good at it, know why it's important, and
why you have that passion for it. It very rarely
works if that passion is I want to make a buck,
and you need to have a really deep understanding of
what the purpose of that business is and why you
think you can achieve that purpose. If you have those
(12:28):
two things and the grit to drive through my experiences,
most places make it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Hey, thanks for listening to my conversation with Ben Walter,
the CEO of Chase for Business and host of The
Unshakables podcast. You can check out Ben's episode of The
Unshakables featuring Borgatti's and an episode we recorded last year.
For a slight change of Plans when I talked to
Ben about staying resilient in the workplace. We'll link to
(13:17):
both episodes in the show notes, and we'll be back
next week with another episode of A Slight Change of Plans.
I'll see you then. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written,
(13:37):
and executive produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change
Family includes our showrunner Alexandra Garratin, our editor Daphne Chen,
our lead producer Megan Lubin, our associate producer Sonia Gerwit,
and our sound engineer Erica Huang. Louis Scara wrote our
delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals.
(14:00):
A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries,
so big thanks to everyone there, and of course a
very special thanks to genuine
Pushkin Hey everyone. In honor of Small Business Week, I
sat down with Ben Walter, the CEO of Chase for Business.
(00:36):
He's also the host of the Unshakables podcast, where small
business owners share the defining moments that tested them and
how they found a way through at a moment when
so much can feel uncertain. We talked about those comforting
places that hold steady in a sea of change. Maybe
it's a neighborhood market or a family run restaurant, somewhere
(00:59):
that feels familiar and keeps you coming back year after year.
I find it fascinating how local spots like these seem
to carry the history of a neighbor with them, even
as the neighborhood itself changes. Recently, Ben sat down with
the family behind Borgottis, Ravioli and egg Noodle for his podcast,
(01:19):
It's a family run pasta shop that's been on Arthur
Avenue in the Bronx for nearly a century. Arthur Avenue,
known as the Boroughs Little Italy, has long been a
hub for Italian American businesses and culture, But like many
neighborhoods in New York and beyond, it's constantly evolving. As
longtime residents move out and new communities move in. I
(01:41):
wanted to talk to Ben about how a place like
Borgottis doesn't just survive, but stays true to itself, how
it maintains its character over time, what it holds on too,
and where and when it's willing to adapt. I hope
this conversation gets you thinking about the special places in
your community, the change they've outlasted, and the stories they carry. Okay,
(02:03):
here's my conversation with Ben.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
When you meet a business like Borgoeis, you really get
a sense of a business that has this larger purpose,
both in terms of the role that it has played
in the family and the role that it's played in
its community. I think it represents sort of a constant
in a sea of change. You know, there are families
who've been getting their holiday meal from Borgatti's for you know,
(02:29):
over fifty years. You have people who remember eating that
at you know, at Christmas at their grandmothers fifty years ago,
who are still serving the same meal today. And in
a world that feels topsy turvy and you know, changing
faster than ever, I think that brings a source of
comfort to many.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
There's a reason places like Burgottis can feel so emotionally grounding.
Familiar environments contribute to our sense of stability. They remind
us who we are and where we come from. That
can be especially powerful during moments of uncertainty, when our
brain is looking for cues that the world is still
somewhat predictable. A beloved community business can become one of
(03:05):
those stabilizing cues. What elements have endured at borgottis over time,
So whether it's recipes or processes or rituals with customers.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I mean, it's absolutely still the original recipes from I
guess the fourth generation's great great grandmother. They still serve
many of the original families as customers that they did
all those years ago, and they've maintained their absolute commitment
to quality. They don't cheap out on the ingredients, they
don't short circuit the process. They make them the way
(03:37):
that they were always made, with a focus on really
quality product to the customer.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It takes a lot of effort to sustain, like you said,
the quality of a business over time, to make sure
you're not skimping when it comes to high quality ingredients
that you are allowing certain tried and tested processes to
remain in place, so a lot of investment involved in
keeping an establishment like Burgotti's the same over time. What
(04:05):
do you think are some of the biggest threats to
businesses like Borgotti's right now?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Funny enough, the number one threat they as a business
haven't faced, but I see clients face it all the
time is the threat that no one in the business
wants to keep going. Very often it was immigrant families
who started the business, and by the third generation, they're
just interested in a different life. So they are fortunate
to have a really tight knit family that has resisted that.
(04:31):
Number two is neighborhoods do shift. While they have been
able to compensate for it through their online sales, that
has been an issue so that, you know, many of
the original Italian American families have moved out of Little
Italy in the Bronx, so that the character of the
neighborhood has changed. And then finally, there's technology you can
get now decent quality ravioli that is high mass manufactured
(04:56):
that probably wasn't available when they started their shop, you know,
back in nineteen thirty five. Now I still think they
serve a superior product and I've had it. It's delicious
and it's handmade and it's artisanal, and there is a
desire for that. So they've been able to to lean
into that angle of it. But like any business, you know,
they're facing it. Whether it's a changing character of the neighborhood,
a changing character of the technological background, a changing narrative
(05:21):
of customer taste. You know, the world changes.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
One of the hardest parts of adapting to change is
knowing what to keep as is and what to improve.
Flexibility means staying aligned to your deeper values while updating
your strategy as circumstances shift. For a small business owner,
that might mean holding on to the quality, care, or
purpose that drew customers in in the first place, while
(05:45):
also being open to new tools, new customers, and new
ways of reaching them. That balance between continuity and change
is often what resilience looks like. What do you think
are some of the magic ingredients that help a business
like the stick around for so long.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
The number one is adaptability. It's a willingness to change,
but the ones who adapt are the ones who thrive.
I would say second is the absolute, unrelenting grit and
dedication of the owners. Yeah, it's force of will. I
mean these are businesses that have made it through COVID,
through the Great Recession, through all of these things, through
the Great Depression. In this case, that's frankly been probably
(06:21):
the most common trait of the people we've had on
our show, and Borgatt's itself is a great example. Their
key machine broke down at the most important time of
year and they had to figure out what to do.
And that's what small business owners do every day, is
they just find a way through.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
How did they solve for this problem of the machine
breaking down.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
They managed to get it fixed in time, but in
the meantime they were doing an awful lot of stuff
by hand. You'll have to listen to the episode to
get the full details.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Okay, so we talked about adaptability, we talked about grit,
any other traits that you see across companies that somehow
find ways to endure.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
The common thing is a commitment to something larger than
just this year's profit. If you were to talk to
any of the small businesses we have met that have
lasted for years and you ask them what the purpose
of their business is, none of them would talk about
to make money. None of them would talk about their financials.
(07:17):
They would all talk about the product or service that
they provide, the impact that has on the lives of
their customers and their communities. All of them and their
brands are all anchored in that. You cannot make a
business work without the dollars and cents, but it will
not last on dollars and cents only. So whether it's
mission driven, you know, we have businesses who are trying
(07:38):
to solve an environmental problem, or an energy problem, or
a health problem, or businesses like this that are trying
to sort of be part of the fabric of the community.
The ones who last are very rarely focused on this
quarter or even this year beyond sort of the near
term need to run the business. They're running something that
has a higher purpose, and that higher purpose is very personal.
(07:59):
So in the case of Borgatis, it's being part of
the neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, I want to talk a bit about how a
business like Burgottis can contribute to the identity of a community.
How do businesses like this one contribute to positive change
or growth.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I think they do it in a few ways. One
is they give the neighborhood a sense of place. If
you think about that neighborhood you grew up in where
there's that place that you always used to go to
and it's still there all those years later. That gives
the place an anchoring and it gives people confidence to
invest in that area. So that's number one. Number two,
I would say they support more than just their business.
(08:40):
So if you look across the country and survey after
survey reveals this, small business owners are some of the
most philanthropic people in their local communities. Who sponsors your
local softball team, it's the local business in the local
community who wants to have both a business and a
philanthropic impact at home, and they tend to reinvest directly
(09:01):
in their community. So small businesses, they don't just sell locally,
they hire locally. Yeah, and that's a self feeding positive
loop that helps neighborhoods thrive economically.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
What then, is describing goes beyond economics. Relationships are what
transformed a collection of streets and buildings into a neighborhood,
and small businesses are where these relationships flourish, where people
go to gather and to build trusted friendships. Restaurants like
Borgatti's help create a feeling that a place is not
(09:33):
simply where you live, but where you belong. What do
you think communities lose when these kinds of small businesses disappear,
and what role do you think customers community members can
play in helping them survive.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
When neighborhoods lose their small businesses, they lose their character.
It's that simple. And that doesn't just mean retail stores,
by the way. It can be the local law and
care shop, it can be the local doctor. Those businesses
know their local communities in a way that others can't.
They're able to respond to those communities in ways that
others can't. And when you lose that, you don't just
(10:09):
lose the character, you lose the permanence. There's so much
transience in the world today. A little bit of permanence
is a healthy counterbalance.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Couldn't agree more. It's definitely a stabilizing force. And it's
a long term relationship builder, you know it is.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I mean, I live in a small town outside New
York City. I know the dry cleaner personally, I walk in,
I hander my stuff. She knows that I don't like
starch on my shirts, you know, And that's comforting. And
these local communities drive social connection in a way that
goes beyond just friends and family.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, we had the former US Surge in General on
a slight change of plans who talked about the loneliness
epidemic that we're all living through. And there's some really
compelling research from the happiness literature showing that it is
these small daily interactions with people in our community, not
even with our closest friends or our family, that really
(11:03):
help boost our sense of belonging. So the conversation with
the barista, the small interaction you might have at the
laundromat like you were describing, then these are part of
the fabric of our everyday lives and they really do
have a profound impact on our sets of well being
and social lives.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They do. And you also asked what can customers do.
Customers can support their local small businesses.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, you know, our one of the little local supermarkets
was at risk of shutting down. And you do see
communities rally, whether it's to keep a local movie theater alive,
to keep a small grocery store alive. It's actually a
very uplifting thing when you see people say, you know what,
we are not willing to let this particular establishment go.
(11:46):
We'll do what it takes and it's petitions. It's making
sure that they're prioritizing getting their groceries from the small grocery,
you know.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And you know sometimes sometimes that does come at a
bit of a price premium, but you give what you
pay for.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
If someone's thinking, you know, I want to I want
to start something from scratch and I want it to
endure for decades to come, what advice would you give
to them?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I would say, first of all, really do your research
on what you're going to do and why. Know why
you'll be good at it, know why it's important, and
why you have that passion for it. It very rarely
works if that passion is I want to make a buck,
and you need to have a really deep understanding of
what the purpose of that business is and why you
think you can achieve that purpose. If you have those
(12:28):
two things and the grit to drive through my experiences,
most places make it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Hey, thanks for listening to my conversation with Ben Walter,
the CEO of Chase for Business and host of The
Unshakables podcast. You can check out Ben's episode of The
Unshakables featuring Borgatti's and an episode we recorded last year.
For a slight change of Plans when I talked to
Ben about staying resilient in the workplace. We'll link to
(13:17):
both episodes in the show notes, and we'll be back
next week with another episode of A Slight Change of Plans.
I'll see you then. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written,
(13:37):
and executive produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change
Family includes our showrunner Alexandra Garratin, our editor Daphne Chen,
our lead producer Megan Lubin, our associate producer Sonia Gerwit,
and our sound engineer Erica Huang. Louis Scara wrote our
delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals.
(14:00):
A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries,
so big thanks to everyone there, and of course a
very special thanks to genuine
Hosts And Creators
Ben Walter
Kathleen Griffith
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Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.