Nerd Sesh - Game 4 Reactions: Thunder BOUNCE BACK vs. Nuggets, Pacers DESTROY Cavs - The Volume

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Oh my god, how could he do that?
What Charles Darwin?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
The nerves is where it's at. Welcome everybody back into
nerd Sash as always, I'm Carson breber In alongside me.
Thank god, Logan cam In is back. I really thought
yesterday there was a chance that we had lost you
for good, Logan. But you're back. You're as bald and
as beautiful as ever, and you're ready to talk some
basketball and we need your insights. We need you on

(00:42):
this show. Man, me going solo, it's no good.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm chained back up to my radiator and I'm ready
to go.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Man, it was a terrible mistake to ever let you out.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
I know, I don't know what they were thinking.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Man, it will not happen again. But you came back
losing because you have what's known as Stockholm syndrome. We're
not gonna talk about that right now. We're gonna talk
about out the basketball. We had two games today. We're
also going to talk about Wolves Warriors because we didn't
get to that yesterday. But we have to start Logan
with what has been the best series of the second
round Peak basketball so far. The Oklahoma City Thunder got

(01:16):
a big ol win to even their series up at
two games a piece against the Denver Nuggets. This time
it's okay see who comes out with a clutch win
after Denver had taken games one and three in the clutch.
What was your biggest takeaway from OKC evening things up
in this series.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I mean, shout out OKC for winning this game, but
the Denver Nuggets can't win this series with the level
that NICOLEA. Jokic is currently had. I mean, this might
be the worst stretch of basketball I can remember from
Nikola Jokic, Like this is some of the absolute worst
I've ever seen Jokic play. If we take game one

(01:55):
out of the equation here and we just look at
Jokic's last three games, He's giving you twenty one twelve
and five with five turnovers a game on thirty three
percent from the field, eighteen percent from deep, and under
forty four percent true shooting. Carson, I've never seen Joker
flustered like this. He looked unconfident in himself. He looked

(02:21):
just flustered. And I think the last like the two
free throws that he misses at the end of the
game really encapsulate that too. Like he just looks rattled
in a way I've never seen Joker rattle before. And
I think it speaks to two things those numbers that
I mentioned. One, Oklahoma City really defends Joker at such
a high level. I mean, and you have to give

(02:42):
props to them for that. But like laid into this
first of all, early in this game, Jokic doesn't want
to go to the bucket in transition, is just passive,
like putting on his brakes early and giving it off
to Christian Brown or Russell Westbrook. Dude, the Thunder and
the Nuggets combined for the lowest amount of first quarter
points in playoff basketball history. So like one, it was

(03:06):
just an incredibly slow start from both of these teams.
But Joker comes out the gates super passive. And then
late in this game, Carson, he's one on one in
single coverage getting to that little floater area and he's
either missing or he's passing out. Like the Joker that
I have come to no one love and expect is
a guy that is going to in the game's biggest moments.

(03:28):
He's gonna back you down to that spot, He's gonna
get to that shot. He didn't do that late in
this game, and he has just consistently looked flustered. Man,
I don't know, I've never seen Joker like this, and
this was a really pivotal game. Denver can't win this
series as good as the role players played because I
thought the defense was great. I love the energy and

(03:49):
the consistent production that we're getting out of Aaron Gordon,
Russell Westbrook and Christian Brown. But the Nuggets can't get
this thing down done with the level that Jokic has
been at. Man has got to be better.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, he's got to be way, way better now. I
would say that we cannot talk about his struggles without
giving so much credit to this Oklahoma City defense, which
is by far the best in the league. Is in
my opinion, one of the greatest that we've seen in
the history of this sport and has defended him and
Denver better than anybody else. Has You asked me this

(04:24):
the other day and I said, well, I actually think
that Jokic has run into the two defenses that are
best equipped to give him trouble in these two playoffs series.
The Clippers have the best individual Yokic defender in Zubots,
who can really limit his ability to cook one on one.
But the thunder defend him best as a collective team
with their ability to pester him with doubles, their collective length,

(04:47):
they're insanely good hands, their physicality, their speed, rotating, disrupting
interior passes, getting out to shooters. They have given the
Nuggets offense fits in a way that nobody else has
this entire season, and honestly, nobody else has in the
Jokic reign in Denver, like even the Minnesota Timberwolves of

(05:08):
last year did not fluster Jokic in the Denver offense
to this extent. In fact, Logan three of the Nuggets
bottom five offensive performances this year by offensive rating, when
Yokic plays have come against the thunder Man. It's just
incredible what they have done. And this is easily the
worst playoff series of Jokic's career. Man, and that even

(05:30):
includes before he was at an MVP level. We can
go back to twenty nineteen, we can go back to
twenty twenty. He's played in sixteen career playoff series. Here
are where his numbers versus OKC rank among those series.
Five point three assists per game is fourteenth out of
sixteen series, five point eight turnovers per game. He has

(05:50):
a negative assist to turnover ratio that is by far
the most that he's ever averaged in a series. Thirty
nine percent from the field not just the worst he's
ever posted in the series. He had never been below
forty eight percent. It's by far the worst that we've
ever seen from him. Twenty one percent from three, worst
in his playoff career, forty nine percent through shooting worst.

(06:11):
So in terms of his scoring efficiency, it's by far
the worst we've ever seen him. In terms of his
playmaking impact, it's by far the worst we've ever seen him.
In terms of his ability to protect the basketball, it's
by far the worst that we've ever seen him. And yeah,
he has to wear that and he has to be
way better. And he almost cost the Nuggets Game three,
and he really did cost in this one.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
I completely agree, and he has in the presser. Man,
it's weird not that Jokic is taking ownership of it.
I really respect that Jokic recognizes how poorly he's been playing.
But that's what I'm saying, man, Like I think it's
in the back of his mind, Like Jokic knows he's
not pulling his weight. He's not as great as he

(06:52):
needs to be, And I don't know, man like, I
think he's I think he's okay. SE's defense has gotten
Jokic in his own head a little bit, Like he
is such a cerebral player and he's so smart and
he's so confident. But I don't feel that watching Jokic
play in these last couple of games, Like he seems

(07:13):
like he's dealing with obviously a great Okac defense, but
also trying to overcome doubting himself man Like, I don't
think he knows just how to get himself back into gear. Man,
he really looks rattled.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
But you have to give so much credit to the
Thunder defense, Like they have executed their scheme and their
game plan against him to perfection. Exactly what they hope
to do was frustrate and fluster him with the physicality
in the double teams, in the active hands, force him
into a bunch of turnovers, can test all of his
looks in the paint really well, make every finish, every

(07:47):
touch shot difficult where he's seeing extra bodies, and obviously
they just have great interior defenders, especially Chet, and force
him into a position where he is not comfortable in
the paint and he starts living on a more jump
shot heavy and perimeter heavy offensive diet, and then he's
just not as consistent there. And Logan, this was the

(08:07):
story of the playoffs last year, where against the Timberwolves
he did so much at such a high level, but
his jumper just wasn't there when he needed it most.
In this series, I mean, it's been a totally different
level of jokic struggles all around, but relying on the
jumper more when it hasn't been effective enough has been
a big problem for him. And I do give so

(08:28):
so much credit to the OKC defense for everything they're
doing to make him uncomfortable. But as you mentioned, like
the touch and the shot making, and when the good
looks are there, it's still not what it needs to
be from Jokic. He has gone from averaging one point
to one points per jump shot in the regular season,
just an insane, unbelievable jump shooting campaign, to zero point

(08:49):
nine to eight points per jump shot. That's a very
average number, and it's obviously not close to what he
was doing in the regular season. You even seen it
the free throw lot. I mean, this has been a
thing throughout the playoffs, but he's only seventy four percent
from the line. That number normally for yokicch is consistently
above eighty percent. And on those paint touch shots where
he is the best that we've ever seen, those little floaters,

(09:11):
the hooks, everything in the paint outside the restricted area.
He was fifty seven percent in the regular season. He
is forty six percent in these playoffs, and that number
is lower in this series. It's only forty percent. The
jump shooting numbers are significantly worse in this series, So
it hurts even more for the Nuggets because this really

(09:33):
felt like one that they had to get. Like we've
talked about this repeatedly. Winning all the clutch games is
Denver's path. Okase can blow them out like they did
in Game two. We've seen it multiple times between these
two teams this season, including the regular season. Denver has
to put themselves in a position where they're there and
they're just hanging in there through three quarters and then

(09:54):
you get down to the last few minutes and you're
the better team. This was a game where they had
an opportunity to do that, and Yo get struggling like
he did is what cost them and what made them
unable to execute that. And again, so much credit to
OKCS defense, like I cannot rave about them enough. But
at the end of the day, this is a guy
who I have called the best offensive player ever and

(10:14):
a big part of that equation is missing when the
jumper is off like it is. But he is also
just not attacking with the consistent aggression. He is not,
in my opinion, being assertive enough in the paint, and
when he is trying to be assertive, the thunder are
just doing a great job. So it's been an all
around brutal last three games for Yoki's the worst three

(10:35):
game stretch we've seen from him in the playoffs ever,
and up to this point, the worst series we've seen
from him in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, and just to add on about this game specifically,
nobody had a great offensive game on this one. This
was like the rock Fight of the playoffs. I truly
could not believe my eyes in the first quarter, Like
it was.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Brought by in the last twenty years. This is the
lowest combined field goal percentage of the playoff game in
twenty years.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Crazy stat and it's just even so it's that much
crazier that Jokic and Sga are both considered the two
best players on planet Earth and watching their offenses stall
out this stall out like this with staggering.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
But I will say we got to give Yannis his
respect because in a postseason where the other two guys
who I've had as my top three players have really struggled,
the leanness dominated and it was a favorable matchup for him,
like he absolutely destroys the pacers, always has and this
has been like a really tough matchup for Yokic. But

(11:34):
still that doesn't make up for the massive difference that
we've seen in their performance in these playoffs. So I
will say, as much as I love Shay, I regret
having him above Yannis when we did our player rankings.
I think that we have seen some of the issues
with his decision making in the playoffs, and I thought
he was good today. I'm just saying, like, Giannis is
so unbelievable, and props to him for holding up in

(11:55):
a postseason where so many other superstars have struggled.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, I don't feel any really differently about either of
these guys in a big, dramatic The one thing I
do want SGA to stop doing is just look, bro,
if you can't head a three, just stop shooting the
step backs in the pull up three, especially in crunch
time too. But anyway, it really hurts to lose a
game like this. When I thought Denver played so elite

(12:18):
on the defensive end, I thought their zone really gave
Oklahoma City fits for a portion of the game. They're
in that three to two for a portion of the game.
We actually got a little bit of a box and one,
and I thought that might have been the most effective.
It was like a box and one with Jokic in
the middle, and I really thought it worked well, and

(12:39):
so I think, okay, c should go back to that.
But to fluster this offense that way, to have off
shooting nights from so many guys, you get a really
bad jad UB game as well. It felt like Denver
had to capitalize and you get a lot of great
contributions to on the class and all these energy and
extra effort plays from Aaron Gordon, from Brown, from Russell Westbrook,

(13:01):
and you let it slip through your fingers. Like I
felt like this was the most important game in the
series thus far, and I really thought Denver needed it,
and somehow Sga was still the best player on the floor. Man,
even though I didn't feel like he played his best game,
he was the best player on the floor. And y'll
catch in this offense just didn't deliver in the clutch, man.
I don't I don't want to keep ragging on Denver,

(13:21):
but all the things we've talked about, yo kicch, not
trusting his shot, not being aggressive enough when you got
to feel the moment and just get to your looks.
But also, dude, some of this process late. What was
up with that like second or third to last possession
where dude, they just waste like fifteen to twenty seconds
where I'm screaming at my TV get a shot up.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, dude, I mean that's just another spot where I
have to give credit to the Oklahoma City defense. And
like that's where I would put most of the credit
in this game.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
What you're saying about a thousand per it goes in ways.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
This was the ultimate rock fight. And I know everybody's
look at this game and focus on how ugly the
offense was, how bad the shooting was, and I get it,
but I'll be damned if this was not one of
the best collective defensive performance. And I'm talking about both
teams first time scene. I thought they were both sensational defensively,
so like if you go through those clutch sequences, the

(14:18):
possession that you're talking about, they just blew up the
Nuggets action. They were trying to get Yokic coming over
top of screen. They had Jamal set a downscreen for him.
They switched Caruso onto him. Caruso blanketed Yokic, blew that up,
and so then Aaron Gordon is just kind of dribbling
around at the top of the key, like shit, what
do I do? They switched Caruso onto him, and Cruso's

(14:39):
clamping him, so like they took off twelve seconds of
clock and Cruso ends up kind of committing a silly
foul that bails them out. But that's just the Oklahoma
City defense doing special stuff, man, And I thought the
couple possessions before that were the same thing. Like if
you go to their third to last real possession, counting
the one that we were just talking about as the
last possession, they switched the Murray Yokic pick and roll,

(15:02):
which I don't think that Denver was expecting and Hartenstein
was all over Jamal. I mean he was doing a
great job of staying with him in space, and then
Mpja actually made a pretty smart cut, but okaysees defense
smothered him off that cut, so he had to force
up a really tough shot in the lane. Then the
next possession for Denver, Jamal takes a really tough off
balance fading threes. So they just took away the Nuggets'

(15:26):
ability to get any good looks out of their two
man game late in this one. And you can't overstate
how hard that is to do. This is one of
the best clutch offenses we've ever seen. Just what Denver
has been able to do over the last several years
with Jamal and Jokic in the playoffs, like it is
as reliable in action to get a good shot as

(15:46):
any we've seen. That's why Denver still scares you so
much in these fourth quarters. It's a huge part of
their title run. It's a huge part of them consistently
coming back against the Lakers. It was a huge part
of them taking a two to one lead in this series.
And the thunder shot that offense down It's incredible, dude.
I mean, they hold Yokics to seven of twenty two,
shooting them three assists. They forced him into the worst

(16:07):
playoff series of his life. They held jam all fifteen.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
That's the one thing that I don't think. I think
we have a tendency and I'm using the royal we
here yeah to really overreact to individual basketball games, like
with superstars and Hall's overrated or Ants sucks or Yokic
sucks now right. The one thing that really angered me
about regular season discourse was the downplaying of Oklahoma City's

(16:32):
historic defense, because I never felt like any of that
was fake. Now we talked about how some of the
statistics may have been a little inflated, but just the
collection of talent and what they put on tape, what
they proved like, I felt Oklahoma City proved themselves and
I've always felt like that was their biggest strength. In

(16:55):
these playoffs. Sga, I did feel like deserved MVP, and
I still feel that way, and I felt like he's
one of the three best players on planet Earth. Take
your pick. Those are true. But I always felt like
their superpower, in their best strength was this defense, and
that has proven itself, I really think in a big

(17:16):
way in this series and it's still the biggest reason
why I have the most confidence in them winning the
championship this season.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
You can't overstate it, man, and I've said that so
many times over and by the way, I said that
throughout the year, as people would sort of hyper fixate
on some of the OKC concerns that have been real
in this series that I think I probably downplayed in
the regular season because I have been worried about the
consistency of some of their shooters alongside Jay. I have
been worried about their collective decision making, like against the

(17:46):
zone like that has not been pretty. Okc's offense in
several of these games, but they still got out of
winning this one because the defense is that special. I
do think it's the best defense that we've seen since
the Four Pistons. I legitimately believe that it's the best
perimeter defense I have ever seen. And you see how
versatile they are in that they are still able to

(18:08):
force the ultimate center, this two hundred and eighty pound
bowling ball into the worst series of his life. Like
in every way, their rim protection, their speed on the perimeter,
forcing turnovers. They are a dominant, dominant defensive team. And
that's what got them through this one. I also thought
throughout the game they were able to force the exact

(18:31):
sort of shots that they wanted Denver taking. Like especially
in the first Quarterman, it was a lot of Christian Brown,
Russell Westbrook, and Peyton Watson threes, and that was a
theme throughout this game. Those guys combined to go four
of twenty. Again, those are shots that Okaysee wants the
Nuggets litting off of, and it allows them to make
life so hard on their stars and load up on them,

(18:52):
especially Jokic, and devote extra attention to him. Also, MPJ
just couldn't hit anything for the Nuggets in this one,
but it's no coincidence, man, And when you force a
team into three of their five worst offensive performances of
the year, that is what makes this team so special.
But Okase's fourth quarter offense did come through. It was
a slog through three quarters, but in that early fourth quarter,

(19:16):
and it started even in the late third quarter, the
very late third quarter, they started doing a much better
job of moving the ball against the zone and they
finally had a couple dudes step up who were legitimately
comfortable and confident knocking down threes off the catch, and
those two guys were Cason Wallace and Aaron Wiggins, who
I thought totally changed the dynamics of this game, especially

(19:36):
compared to lou Dort, who was having a disaster also
shooting postseason.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
I thought Caruso had a really good game too, man,
and I would play Bro. I would play Caruso maybe,
like I'm I bugging for saying like twenty five plus, Man,
I would have Caruso out.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
There a lot, bro bugging brother. He played twenty five plus, Well,
he should be starting. He should be playing way more
than doing.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
That's what I'm saying. I think he should play. I'm
saying moving forward in the series, I think he should
be getting starter level burned because there's a lot of
shit man that like Caruso is a great shooter, everybody
knows that Cruso is a great defender. Everybody, dude. That
one stop on Jamal Murray in transition was unreal. What
a big play, And I mean he was making big
play after big play in that stretch. He does so

(20:20):
many little things that positioning, like little subtle stuff that
you don't really pick up on screen. Setting. He's such
a good connector and he doesn't need the ball in
his hands at all to have an impact. It just
so happens that he is an elite shooter and is
capable in those other areas. But Okase, he's got guys,
and I think they just need to figure out who

(20:42):
the right guys are in each series. And I agree, Man,
if Dort's gonna be off like he was and it
wasn't even like regular off like Dort was clanging, clanging.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
And highway for the entire postseason, I.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Would be really okay calling audibles.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Oh more than that, dude. I mean, I was gonna
save the crusoe glaze for later, but we can get
to it now. I'm always down. I think he's the
role player this planet has ever seen. Absolutely he should
be starting, and if he's not literally starting, because dagnall,
he's rigid with the literal starting lineup. I mean we
saw this even with Josh Giddy last year, right, he
would not pull him from the starting lineup until I

(21:16):
think Games five and six against Dallas, even though he
was obviously hurting them. Regardless of whether or not he
makes that literal change or even if he goes with
casein starting over Dort. Dort has started every game this year,
so maybe he won't literally move off of him as
a starter for continuity's sake or whatever. But if Cruso
is not playing way more than Dart Dort, and if
he is not closing all of these games, that would

(21:37):
be a mistake because he is a clearly better basketball player,
and he has done every single thing at a higher
level than Dort in these playoffs. You call Cruso an
elite shooter, I am not comfortable with that, but he
is shooting the basketball much better than Lou Dort is
right now. Because Lou Dort is twenty five percent from
three in these playoffs. Crusoe is consistently at least looking

(21:58):
confident stepping into making these shots when that's really hard
for a lot of other guys to do. But it's
so much more than that. I mean, he is the
significantly more impactful all around defender just because he is
so insanely disruptive off ball and is a significantly better
rim protector. I think he's the better transition defender, and
he is like right there as an on ball pest

(22:20):
and screen navigator and all the things that Dort does
at such a high level, so he's significantly more impactful
defensively overall, he is a way better decision maker. He
is a way better ball handler. He is a way
better driver and finisher. He is clearly better in terms
of transition offense. He's significantly better as a passer. Like
he's just a way more complete versatile player, Whereas it's

(22:42):
like Dort is a great on ball defender. But if
you are just going to have Jokic screen for Jamal
every single possession, especially in the clutch, like you can
get Lou off of Jamal in that matchup, and then
he's not gonna be as impactful overall as Caruso is,
where he is just gonna blow shit up all over
the court. And offensively, you can basically just funnel O

(23:05):
Case's offense into open lou Dort catch and shoot threes,
and if he's missing those shots, which he's missing badly
right now, he doesn't bring you anything else. Whereas Caruso
can attack a close out, he can make plays as
a driver, scoring or passing. So I am one hundred
percent on that boat. And thank god that Dagnault went
away from lou Dort and then he went to casein

(23:26):
and Wiggins in Caruso because if he hadn't, I don't
know if Oklahoma City wins this game. Like I thought
that lou Dort was costing them offensively that much. But
he did go to the right guys and they did
step up. And I do want to give Shay credit because,
like you said, man, this game was hard as shit
for everybody to score. Shake comes up with nine big
fourth quarter points. He had a couple of great downhill drives,

(23:49):
He made a tough shot in isolation, he got to
line a couple times. He made a nice swing pass
when he drew two to Jadub who quickly attacked the gap,
and he got a nice bucket versus the zone. Like
he was a big reason that they were able to
pull through late. And he was really phenomenal until the
last two minutes when, like you said, I mean, he's
just way too in love with the pull up three

(24:10):
right now in those clutch spots. He is shooting twenty
three percent from deep in these playoffs. Like I understand
he just got a shot up, but.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
I think he just needs to eliminate it from his
diet right now, or take one or two a game.
I mean, it's just if it's not going in, why
would you keep shooting it?

Speaker 2 (24:28):
And especially like if your legs are a little bit shaky,
if you're a little bit tight, that's the last It's.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Layton, I want you exactly, It's Layton game and you're tired,
like you've already exerted yourself. That's going to be the
toughest shot to make, and it's already. It's literally if
we were to list every shot that SGA could make,
it is the lowest shot on the total. It's like
literally the last one I want from Shay.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
It is. And the reason I think he's going to
it so much is because he just wants to be
able to get a shot up in isolation and he
knows if he set foot inside that three point line,
like there's gonna be multiple defenders coming his way. But
that's fine, man, I mean, you can get a shot
for somebody else. Stop forcing what has been by far
your most inefficient shot. That was frustrating. I honestly liked

(25:13):
it more when he pump faked and then spawn and
stepped through and put up that like eighteen footer. Yeah,
it was kind of a weird shot. It was better
than the step back threes that are contested over and
over again. But that's really my only gripe with him
in this game, Like within the context how hard it
was for everybody to score, how great the defense was,
and how aggressive the coverages that he was seeing were,

(25:34):
Like he was seeing to every single time he touched
the ball, and he still gave you a decently efficient
fifteen in the first half and was still more efficient
than everybody else and puts up twenty five in this game.
And I thought just really consistently made good decisions, Like
I thought that he was getting off the ball much
more quickly, he was moving it against the zone when

(25:57):
he's getting doubled, and his teammates just couldn't capitalized for
a vast majority of this game. But it wasn't like
Game three, we're down the stretch. It's like, Shay, you're
forcing bad shots, Like you need to be more selfless,
you need to do a better job of diagnosing what
you're seeing and creating for teammates. He was doing that
throughout this game, and it was just really rough to
watch his teammates for a while, but they came through

(26:18):
in the end, and he certainly wasn't perfect, but like
he was my far the best player on the floor
in this game, and that was huge for ok.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
See it was man when nobody else can get it going.
Sometimes that's the difference. And I think we're in for
I think we're in for some more really close games.
I wouldn't be surprised if OKC got like one more
blowout game versus Denver where they're shooting really hot. Denver
has an off shooting night, Jokic is off. I'm still

(26:47):
riding with OKC and seven. That was my prediction at
the start of the series. And it really is this
defense and why I believe in them. Man, if you
like again, the biggest thing we said this last episode,
we said this last two episodes. Now it's gonna be
three when we've been talking about Nuggets thunder. But if
Yokic isn't gonna be the best player on the floor,
advantage JOKC Like you can fill in any other variable

(27:09):
in Denver's And it's crazy because they have won two
games in this series where Yokic has been less than
the best player in the world and way lower than
his standard.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
I mean, Game one, he was incredible in the fourth quarter,
he was ridiculous Game three, he was bad.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm saying best player in the world, like Jokic level. Shit,
We've got.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Game one he had eighteen points on like ninety percentury
shooting in the fourth quarter and he had forty two
to twenty two and six or whatever. He wasn't perfect,
but that.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
We've gotten one game like that from Jokic, But we've
gotten way more where he has played bad Yokic games.
If we're gonna keep getting that, Okay, I can confidently
say I think Oklahoma City's gonna win this series. So
I think we're it's gonna go the distance. Both of
these teams are. They're battling right now. Man, this has
been one of my favorite series ever. But I just

(28:00):
if Yokic is gonna keep staying like he doesn't look confident. Man,
that's a difference to me. I've never seen Yokic look
like this. It is he's concerning, he really.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Is, man, Jokic will play better. It's not possible for
him to play worse than he has over these last
three games, and like the shot making will just improve.
But life isn't going to get meaningfully easier on him, Okay,
Seas intensity isn't going to let up. Their game plan
isn't going to change, like, they are going to continue
to make life as hard on him every game as

(28:31):
they can, and there will probably be a moment in
a game where he rises above that and he does
some crazy special shit like he did in the fourth
quarter of Game one, But those stretches have been very
few and far between in this series because outside of
that one quarter, and you can give him the entirety
of Game one like, it has been a whole lot

(28:51):
of struggle for Yokic and that is not fundamentally changing.
And that's because of okay ces defense man and just
how ridiculously disruptive they are. So I do think that
they are absolutely the better team. I mean, they've dictated
a majority of this series. That being said, I don't
think I would be encouraged by how this series has

(29:12):
gone if I'm okay see, because they have really struggled
against the zone last two games when Denver's gone to
it a lot, Okasee is just putting up about point
eight points per possession. That's ugly, that's rough. And I
said throughout the year, well, I think that you'd be
right to test okay C's ability to beat his own,
but overall, they were actually a really good offense against zone. Now,

(29:34):
when Dort looks totally uncomfortable taking open catch and shoot
looks or he's bricking them and he's taking more shots
from deep than anybody else on your team, like, that's
a huge problem. Chet Holmgren love the guy to death.
He does not look comfortable with shooting those threes off
the catch right now, and he's leaving a lot of
them flat in short, so I would be a little

(29:55):
worried about that. I do think that Shay's decision making
has been up and down in this It was good
in this game, so that is encouraging. But again, the
ability of some of his teammates to attack the zone
was not super pretty in this game. It was really
rough for a lot of it. So I would probably
be like concerned about some of the offensive issues. At

(30:16):
the same time, I would just feel even better about
my defense somehow than I did coming in, and like
it would just affirm how great they are. I do
need more consistency out of Chet and Jadab though, because Chet,
like again, his offense is gonna mostly come to him
within the flow of the game, but he has to
be able to knock down those looks off the catch.
And Jadub, who was just phenomenal in Game three, was

(30:38):
atrocious offensively in this game. His defensive first quarter was
just about the best defensive quarter I've seen from anybody
in these playoffs. Probably only his buddy Alex Caruso could
top it. I mean, he was wreaking havoc. But so
many out of control drives, so many forced shots, and
when Jadub has been off like he wasn't Game one

(31:00):
and like he was in this one, that's been the theme.
It's been forcing some of those really tough shots in
the lane. That's where I think he's gotta let the
game come to him a little bit more. And I
think he's got to look to be a playmaker more right,
try to collapse the defense and then make a read
and find a teammate instead of just forcing the issue
in the paint. So I do want to see those

(31:21):
two be better. At the same time, I'm talking about
how much credit we have to give to okc's defense.
We have to give so much credit to Denver's defense,
and when they are defending like this, they are very
clearly the second best team in the West, which is
very funny logan, because like, this is what I dreamt
of for them all year. Man, ninety percent of the year.

(31:44):
I said, once Denver figures it out defensively, once they
get serious on that side of the ball, they'll be
the second best team in the West. And it just
never happened in the regular season, and I started to
really lose hope that it was gonna happen, especially over
like that last month, and then they fire Malone and
it just felt like the wheel were coming off, and
instead they rallied in such a big way and they

(32:05):
are playing maybe the best defense I've ever seen from
them in these playoffs, Like it might be better than
it was in the twenty twenty three title run. Either way,
it's absolutely at that level at least, and it's so impressive.
They are locked in on the zone. They are shrinking
the shit out of the floor. They are still consistently
giving great closeouts, so like they are forcing a lot

(32:27):
of these OKC shooters, especially in the first half, this
was the case to either shoot against good closeouts or
put the ball on the floor. And then they're just
having to deal with this zone again where they're seeing
a bunch of bodies, They're not going to get a
clean drive into the paint. So now they have to
diagnose it again. They have to make the read, they
have to make a kickout pass, and then that teammate's
gonna draw a hard close out. Like everybody around. Shay

(32:50):
was really uncomfortable against this defense, which is a problem
for Okase's offense. But it also just speaks to how
great Denver's defense has been in the fact that they
haven't allowed anybody on Okac to be comfortable. And like,
when Denver is defending like this, that's when they're a
title contender. That's when they're a top five team in basketball.
So it is impressive that Okac was able to pull

(33:10):
this one out because Denver defensively is playing at a
level that is so so far above anything they did
in the regular season.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, it just it's just not enough, man.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, well it's certainly not enough if Jokic is gonna
struggle like this. Like, I think Okac is better and
way more.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I think the one area I do think they can
be way better at and this wasn't as big of
an issue in this game, but late the straight line drives, man,
and there's just a few instances even in the zone.
It wasn't a lot in this game, but Sga got
a few easy buckets. I felt like Jadab had won
where he got right to the hoop.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Well, Jadab did have a great one, but that's because
they basically had two one SGA and he immediately attacked
off the off the catch and he was driving right
into that gap. So that was a great take. I
think the extent to which they have made life hard
on OKAC is outstanding, Like considering what I thought they
would be capable of defensively coming into these playoffs, there's

(34:15):
not a critical word I could say about Denver's defense
in this series outside of not trying basically in game two.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
I'm really impressed with Denver's defense, but I do think
it's gonna bounce back in Okac's favor. I think they're
due for a better shooting game. They have to be right, yeah, yeah, right,
Like it has to balance itself out. So I'm impressed
with Denver, but I kind of have a feeling that
OKAC is gonna break through one of these next couple games.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I agree, and that's why I said, like Denver has
to get all of the clutch games to have a
real chance to win this series, that's where they're gonna win.
So to lose one of those is so costly. And
for OKAC to win one of those, they have to
feel really good about. And even though the offense was
rough overall, to like be the team that pulls through
and has the better process in the clutch and in
the fourth quarter, I think they have to feel really

(35:01):
good about. We do have a donation, thank you very
much from klout. Did Aaron Wigan save basketball? Absolutely? As
he does every time he sets foot on the floor,
like shout out to him, And I mean, he was
so big. They need to play him absolutely, and I
think that he and Casin and Caruso they are the
heroes of this game. We already talked about Caruso over Dort,
but I just don't think you can hammer home enough

(35:24):
how special Okase's depth is in how much they need
to be willing to use it. Like if lou is
going to shoot twenty five percent from three, you have
the depth to go away from him, and you have
so many good options and you should absolutely do so,
especially Caruso because he's just also a freakish defensive player.
And Cason is a great defensive player. And if these

(35:46):
guys are going to give you way more offensive value,
just go with them. Because Caseen is also certainly a
much more versatile offensive player in terms of his decision
making as a passer. He's a good driver and finisher.
So they should absolutely rely on those guys. If there's
one other role player who I just want to shout out,
it's Jay Will. I just think he's done a nice
job on Yolkic in his minutes, and I think that

(36:08):
he's made some shots for them, and he's been impressive.
They just have such a ridiculously good team.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
You can't believe that didn't punish them more for running
j Will man. That seems like that would be the
exploitable guy, but they haven't been able to do it. It's
it's really surprising.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, I don't like it when they go Jay Will
as the lone big, but when he's playing with Chet,
then I do like it because you can have a
guy who's at least a pretty big body in j Will.
I mean he's undersized for a center, but he's thick,
and then you have Jet still on the back line.
So I think if that's been a good look for them.
The other area in which they have really impressed me

(36:45):
is their ability to dictate the glass in several of
these games. Like I talked about after Game one, this
one really showed us where these teams have advantages, Like,
okay see, he's gonna win consistently in transition, they're gonna
consistently win the turnover battle. Denver going to win the
battle on the glass. That hasn't been the case. Okay
see has just been so quick to the ball. Hartenstein
and Chet have been really good on the boards, and

(37:08):
they've been able to win that battle, which is significant
because they're just generating a lot more chances. And it's
crazy how poorly they've shot the ball from deep. What
are they shooting from three in this series, Logan, I'm
looking it up right now. They are shooting thirty two percent.
But that's all because of Game two. Like outside of that,

(37:30):
I mean, it's been a lot of really rushing Night's.
Game one, they shot okay, but the last two games.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
I mean, this is three point shooting team in basketball
in the regular season.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Since January first. Since January first, they were tops of
the league. And it definitely has not been the case
in this series, and again, a lot of those guys
don't really feel comfortable taking the shots, so you have
to go with the guys who are comfortable taking the shots.
This is a massive win for Oklahoma City and it
wasn't pretty. And like I said, I wouldn't feel better

(38:02):
about the Thunder than I did coming into this series,
Like I think that their flaws have looked more significant
than I thought coming into it. But I would also
say like the only team who probably really feels encouraged
right now with how the second round is going is
the Indiana Pacers. I think Boston would be disappointed with
their performance, even like the Timberwolves being up to one,

(38:23):
did they feel good about how they've played with Steph
out for all but twelve minutes of this series. Like No,
I wouldn't say so. And because of their special defensive foundation.
I do believe in the Thunder so much and is
a huge one man. I mean, this feels like the
game that swings the series Game four, knowing that OKAC
has more of the ability to win one of these

(38:44):
last few games convincingly, knowing how important the clutch games
are and how shaky OKAC had looked there and how
good Denver had looked there like that. Being reversed is
so significant for so many reasons, so it's just a
massive win for them. Enough on that game. We talked
about that one for forty minutes, but an MF had
a lot to say. I absolutely love that series and
this was another epic installment. We're gonna take a quick break,

(39:05):
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Speaker 2 (41:34):
Last two games, okay, see is shooting twenty five percent
from three Logan, So, even though obviously Denver also shot
the ball very poorly from deep in this one, a
lot of that was their questionable shooters taking a majority
of the shots. And I think, okay, so, you should
honestly feel solid about coming out of a two game
stretch with one win when they shot the ball that

(41:55):
poorly at the volume that they've been shooting it from three.
Let's talk about a team it could not possibly have
shot the ball better. Logan. The Pacers put up eighty
points in the first half against Cleveland. They end up
delivering only a twenty point win, which is just so
insufficient for how completely dominant this game was. Because it

(42:15):
was a forty one point lead at the half. They
take a commanding three to one lead in this series.
What do you have to say about those Indiana Pacers
this game?

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Was it felt like over in the first half.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Man, it sure was.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Cleveland just didn't bring it. I was stunned. Stunned man,
Indiana's defense I didn't know also could reach this level.
I thought that. I thought this is gonna be the
biggest liability of any team remaining in the field. Maybe
the Knicks defense, I trust less, you know, I don't know.
I think it's pretty close between both of those teams.
But I didn't think Indiana was capable at defending at

(42:58):
this level. And I'm just prized. I thought the zone
kind of gave Cleveland fits. And obviously Cleveland isn't at
full strength. I think that's important to mention, just because
Garland's dealing with the little injury, right.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Sorry, I was just gonna say he ended up being
the best player on the floor for them. It was
in garbage time. He didn't do anything, but they have
all their guys out there except Donovan Mitchell then hurts
his ankle in this.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah he's out.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah, I said, you're saying about them not being at
one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I think it's just. But also, Donnie didn't even come
back in the second. It didn't matter.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
You know, this game is the forty one game.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, exactly, they do. They eighty pieced him in the
first half. I don't know if I've ever seen that before.
Eighty is ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Seed did it a couple of days ago. Battle Okay,
he did in Game two they had eighty seven.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
That's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
That was the most diff half.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Offenses are these are the best offenses And that's the
people want to hate on the three ball. Man, that's
the magical thing that can happen when the three ball
is going shout out, miles turn.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
And yet you've never seen better defense. And if I
had to pick what's the theme of the playoffs, I
would say have been more impressed with the defense than
the offense collectively.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Did Do you think it came down to experience? Man,
I don't get it. Like, I don't know who to
lay this blame at if it lays at Kenny Atkinson's feet.
Cleveland looked completely overwhelmed in this game, and I think
they're done, Like I think this decided. I think Cleveland's
goose is cooked. Man, I can't see Cleveland winning three

(44:29):
straight games against this Indiana team.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Logan Cam that is mister negative today, man, he wants
to start with where things went wrong for the Nuggets,
where things went wrong for the Cavs. Truthfully, I thought
that this was just a special half of basketball from Indiana,
one of the best I've ever seen. And that's not
to say that Cleveland did not also play very badly.
But if I were to pick a side, like what
would I focus on first, It's Indiana. That being said, you,

(44:54):
mister Negative, have chosen to talk about the Cleveland Cavaliers
and their issues, so we can start there. But at
the same time, I think the their issues start with
Indiana just being so insanely good defensively in this game.
They were so sped up by the Pacers ball pressure,
and that just forced them into so many mistakes. Everything
felt rushed for them. They had so many turnovers in

(45:16):
the first half of this game, and then obviously like
they could not keep up with the Pacer shooting, because
it was absolutely absurd. They just did not match Indiana's
intensity or physicality in this game, and that is inexcusable.
Like you can have one of those games where you
get smacked in the face, and you just don't have
a response if you're up one to zero in a series,

(45:38):
you can't have it when you're down too one. That's
a backs against the wall kind of spot where you
have to be the team that has more urgency. You
have to be the team that is quicker to the
fifty to fifty balls. That was not the case in
this game. Indiana was the team who was playing harder,
but they were also just the team that was playing
better man and then I thought that the Cavs did
start to really unravel late in the first half. DeAndre

(46:02):
Hunter was abominably bad in the first half of this game,
just in this game. I mean, he was terrible, and
I don't think that that's a coincidence given the whole
spat that he got into with Benedict Mathern. Maybe it
is a coincidence, but he made so many mental errors
in so many bad decisions where he forced some shots
that I really didn't like. He had a really bad

(46:24):
turnover in this game, and he has three turnovers in
his sixteen minutes, in which he also goes zero for
four from the field. He made a number of mistakes
defensively in the zone, like had a number of fouls,
just really spacey, kind of dumb game from him, and
he lost his composure. Max Strusse had a tech as

(46:46):
things were really spiraling. So if you want to play
blame pie man, I mean, I think it lays at
the feet of just about everybody. I didn't think that
there was anybody who was good for Cleveland in this game.
Like Garland puts up his numbers, but he was bad
in the first half, and I think still clearly is
bothered by the toe. He falls down multiple times again
in this game. They called the foul on TJ McConnell

(47:06):
when he basically didn't touch him because Garland just lost
his balance because his balance has been out of whack
because his toe is sprained, Like he is the one
to do. I do still think you see being affected
by the injury. But I mean, at the end of
the day, the Pacers were just way way, way, way
way better and anything having to do with Garland's toe
had very little to do with the forty point differential.

(47:28):
At halftime, Donovan Mitchell was struggling to finish, he was
settling more and Jared Allen was struggling. I mean he
was fumbling passes. He didn't give you anything offensively. I
thought that Mobly had difficulty creating it. The Pacers just
do such a great job of extending their defense out
and bringing that constant pressure where Mobley is comfortable handling

(47:50):
for a seven footer, but he's not comfortable handling against
pressure thirty feet from the bass. He really is going
to kind of shrink in that situation, and that's the
spot that Indiana put him in repeatedly. And then their
collective rebounding and their defense wasn't good enough. But I
was really disappointed in the Caves. I want to be clear,
I was very disappointed, but I was more so just
impressed by the Pacers.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Well, I mean, I thought they did a really good
job of taking away the two shots that Cleveland wants
to get to, right like attempts at the rim and
from behind the arc. And that's what was weird out
of the break. Don't get me wrong, it's really hard
overcoming a deficit like that at the half. You're not
expecting ever to win a game like that. But the
Calves were done in the third quarter. They were completely deflated.

(48:32):
You're talking about them fumbling passes like kickout passes to
the mid range, just guys not holding onto the ball,
letting it go out of bounce, like just ugly in
bad turnovers in a spot where it's like it's gut
check time. We got to bring it man, and they
didn't answer the call. But Indiana did such a good
job and that's one of their superpowers of if they

(48:53):
do get defensive stops, just getting out on the break
and letting it fly and their shoes shoting. I thought
did a good job against the zone in this one.
I thought the zone would be more effective against them Indiana.
That's what's special about this team, and they are so
talented offensively that if you're having an off defensive night,

(49:13):
they can just bludgeon you in a way that other
teams aren't capable of because everybody on their roster can shoot.
Everybody on their roster is going to play unselfishly and
hunt the open shot. Everybody on their team can attack
a close out. There's just nothing that you can concede
to Indiana. You know what I mean against certain teams,

(49:34):
if it's ok, see all right, well we're gonna try
to funnel lou Dort Three's we want himhucking up shots
because he's the weak point. There is no weak point
in Indiana, right, Like your weakest link is gonna be
a thirty five percent shooter or a thirty seven percent shooter,
right your weak link is still gonna be able to
get to the rim. That's why Indiana's special, and they're

(49:54):
capable of doing this if you don't bring your a game. Man,
I'm super impressed. And I think two I thought we
did see, not that this is the biggest thing. And
I think sometimes people can blow this out of a portion.
I do think playoff experience mattered, man Like Indiana seemed
ready to go. They knew the stakes, they knew what
they needed to bring to night, and they brought it Cleveland, didn't.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
They brought it. They're also just really damn good dude,
And I do think this is such a statement win
for them. Above all else, you have to think about
the journey of the Indiana Pacers this year and how
incredible it really has been. They started the year nine
and fourteen. Logan Halle was struggling with the back issues.

(50:34):
He was in a shooting slump. The whole team was
really struggling. Accordingly, since they broke out of that, and
since Halle really got right, they are forty four and
fifteen when he plays. That is a sixty one win
pace for three quarters of the season, and that includes
the playoffs. Two series of playoff basketball. Now almost they

(50:57):
have been playing at an elite level, a sixty win
level for three quarters of the season now, and I
think this is a team that can win the title. Now.
We actually talked about this after Game two. We had
somebody ask like, do you think the Pacers are capable
of winning the title? And I said, if they get
past the Cavs, I can't put them confidently below anybody

(51:22):
other than Boston and OKC in terms of my rankings. Like,
I like them as much as everybody else in the field,
and now I just feel even better about them after
a performance like this. But their offense is as great
as it gets, and when you are comparing them to
the top two contenders who I have had in those
top spots end to end this entire year, Oka see

(51:44):
in Boston. I trust the Pacers offense a good bit
more than those offenses, because with Boston I have more
questions about the decision making of their stars. With what
we've seen from Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. They don't
have as many layered actions. They don't have the sort
of consistent ball movement that Indiana does. They don't have

(52:06):
the consistent elite pace that Indiana plays with, where it's like,
I know that they're always going to make the right
decisions and get the right shots. Boston's offensive ceiling is stratosphereical.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Do you like their identity better?

Speaker 2 (52:17):
I just trust Indiana more on a game to game basis. Like,
if you ask me who has the higher offensive ceiling, well,
Indiana's offensive ceiling is really high. Boston's is still probably
higher though, because when Tatum and Brown are relentlessly attacking
mismatches and getting whatever they want and everybody around them
can shoot it combined fifty threes and make forty five
percent of them, well, shit, man, there's nothing that you

(52:39):
can do about that. But the process is shakeier with Oka. See,
the offensive process is shakier. We've seen that exactly in
this series.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
What I just like is they've got so many guys
that are elite at one thing or the other. Right
like McConnell. When Halliburn's not out there is an elite
decision maker in short mid range shooter. You know, if
it's Nie Smith on the wing right, he's a great shooter.
If it's Obie Topping, he's amazing lob threat. And when

(53:08):
you can get him out in the open floor, it's
like everybody does their job, fills their role and does
it at a high level. And the thing we're talking
about with Okay, see when one guy's not giving it
to you've got a guy off the bench that you
can turn to right that you trust a relative amount.
If it's nem Hard and I'm just using that with
the guard rotation in general, because he starts sometimes right,
But Hallie, Nemhard, McConnell, and they all buy in and

(53:32):
they're all on the same page. I think rhythm's a
really good word to use, Carson. They always seem so
in sync and connected.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
They get great shots as consistently as any team in basketball,
and they play together and they play the right way.
Also plays does efficient basketball.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
And it doesn't really matter the specific lineup, right, you
have so many different lineup combinations that you can go
with and they'll all kill you.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Absolutely. The offense is insane. But we've known that. I mean,
that was the case last year. This was the number
two regular season offense last year. They were the number
one playoff offense last year. The reason that I think
this is now a team that can win the title,
and I didn't think that last year, even when they
made the Eastern Conference finals, is because their defensive improvement
is that massive, and they've done that with really minimal

(54:23):
personnel changes, which is so impressive. But it all starts
with that ball pressure. Man. It all starts with their
ability to be so disruptive at the point of attack,
to speed teams up, to extend their defense, to make
ball handlers uncomfortable. Look at what they've done to Tygerome
this entire series, and look at what they've done to
the entire Cavs offense in this game. It's so impressive.

(54:44):
And they are deep with good perimeter defenders Nie Smith,
nowhard TJ. McConnell. These are guys who hillaciously pressure the
ball and then Benettict Maatherin, he picks up, he defens
and he's a really good athlete. Tyres Halliburn has been
really good defensively in these playoffs. Is engaged as hell,
and he's got the size and the length and the
hands to make plays on that side of the ball.

(55:05):
Everybody competes their ass off on the perimeter. That's where
it starts. I also think Miles Turner has been excellent
protecting the rim in these playoffs, and I think it's
probably the best defense I've ever seen from him. And
they have no weak points. There's nobody who you can
go at, who has clear physical limitations, who is not
going to compete, who you can exploit, and like that's

(55:26):
a really significant thing to just be that solid defensively.
They don't have the elite personnel that some other teams do,
and that's why I still think their defense is certainly
a notch down from the best of the best. But
they're very solid all around. So when you have the
offense that I trust probably the most out of the
remaining field, Like, if they take care of business against

(55:48):
the Caves, I'm gonna like their offense more than anybody
else who advances to the conference finals. And their defense
is as solid as it is. There's nobody who I
look at and say the Pacers can't beat. Would I
pick them to beat Boston or Okac? Absolutely not. Would
I be shocked, Like, can I not envision a world though,
where they do take Boston down in seven, like if

(56:10):
Boston's offensive process is just a little sloppy and they're
not shooting the ball super well. Again, like I would
be surprised if that happened. Certainly, I do think that
Boston has more margin because of their two way greatness
and all their shooting et cetera, et cetera. But I
can't say that I can't see a world in which
that happens. I can't say that I can't see a
world in which Indiana beats any team that is out there.

(56:32):
Like everybody is flawed, and that's what we're seeing from Boston,
that's what we're seeing from Okac, that's what we've seen
from the Cavs, and Indiana is the team that has
really shown us that. So like again, I just want
to apologize to the Indiana Pacers. And I called them
the most underrated team in basketball like a month before
the playoffs when we did that show with Hoop Venue,
and I still significantly significantly underrated them. And that really

(56:58):
is just all about the defense, how much they've improved there,
which I don't think I fully appreciated until the playoffs.
Like I knew that they were a better defense, and
we talked about that, but it's been so damn good
in the postseason and it's a real difference maker, and
their offense really makes them as dependable as it gets
in the NBA. So I mean, thank god, I'm not

(57:19):
somebody who like picked the Bucks to beat them or
anything like that. And I've always been a Halle Truther,
but still did not think that I would view them
as a legitimate title contender. And now I think that
you have to at least say that they have a chance.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
They were my dark horse them in Minnesota were my
dark horses coming into it. And yeah, I don't act
like I was super high on them. Who do you
think has the bigger the best chance to beat Boston?
Do you like New York and Indiana? Oh?

Speaker 2 (57:50):
I think Indiana is a significantly better basketball three.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I agree. I truly think it either because I think
the recipe is there. I think it's make a Tatum
off series Brown a little off as well. I think
KP would have to be out and off. But it's
like I wouldn't like you said, dude, I think you
said it well. I wouldn't be shocked it wouldn't stun me.
Indiana's very capable, and just the level that Boston's at
is not instilling any faith in me that they're just

(58:15):
going to go through the playoffs like they did last year.
I'd give Indiana a really good chance, and I think
at minimum, if we get that, I think it probably
goes six. Man, Like, this team ain't going down easy.
I think they're going to apply some pressure to Boston.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Oh absolutely, it's at least going six. Like Indiana's offensive
floor is so damn high, and Boston's offensive floor right
now doesn't feel very high. Like I am confident that
Boston is going to come back and beat New York
because I don't think that New York is going to
continue to produce the defensive results they did in the

(58:50):
first two games. They did a great job. Boston also
melted down in a freakish kind of way and shot
the ball so horribly, and like Game three, you saw
a big reversal of that. And I think that they've
things and they're just the much better team when it
comes to Indiana, though, I think that they can consistently
produce elite offensive results against Boston in a way that
New York cannot because while Boston can really key in

(59:15):
on a Jalen Brunson and can exploit some of their
offensive week points like a Mitchell Robinson or like a
Josh Harten, basically ignore those guys. There's nobody who you
can do that too. On the Pacers. There's such a
collective effort and they're just a much more difficult offense
to guard in totality because of that, and they're really
solid defense. Like I still think it's gonna be hard

(59:37):
for them to slow Boston down consistently. Boston to some
extent kind of has to slow themselves down when they're off,
but they're gonna fight and they are not going to
have dues you can just look at and say, oh,
he's food. I'm gonna go at him over and over again.
So I just want to hammer home how great Indiana is.
You're talking about a huge sample size of them playing

(59:57):
fantastic basketball, and they they have to get credit for that.
Specifically in this game. Props to Pascal Siakam on like
probably one of the best shot making performances and a
half that you'll ever see in your life. I mean,
he was just cooking attacking Max Struce out of the
post early, punishing some mismatches there. But then he also

(01:00:17):
just like started raining threes and contested middies as the
half went along. Miles Turner, similar thing. I thought that
he got to some really good looks early, but then
also he's just raining threes. Like. Their collective ball movement
was incredible. They created a bunch of good shots. They
were consistently getting good looks from the corner against the zone,
Like they had a totally different level of composure and

(01:00:39):
efficiency against the zone. They were so so good in
terms of their ability to create the shots they wanted.
At the same time, whenever they had to take a
tough shot, they made it, and they made it over
and over again, and whenever they had an open shot,
they made it to an absurd degree. Like they were
twelve of eighteen from three in the first half. So
just a sparkling two way perform Mormans Man. I mean,

(01:01:01):
they put up eighty points in the first half, and
I think there's a strong argument to be made that
they were better defensively at least as good. Like I
would say I was more impressed by the defense at
least because the offense was phenomenal but some of the
shot making stuff, you're like, Okay, yeah, you're a good shooter.
How consistently are you making that shot? Whereas defense, it

(01:01:23):
was like every single possession they were preventing the Cavs
from getting a rhythm. They were making life hard on them,
and I think in that sense that impressed me more
from the first half. But I mean, they get eight
pluses on both sides of the ball.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Do you want to dress the elephant in the room.
Do you think the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Calves are the twenty fifteen Hawks?

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
No? No, no, no, we already we already did that one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
I mean, look, man, conversations changed when you're down forty
and a half and you are healthy, not the chill bro. No,
I'm not saying I think over but I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Understand is a good question to ask. I do think
that is oppression question.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
I don't really think so, man. I think that this
has a lot more to do with the Pacers being
sick and everybody underrating the Pacers. I think that includes us.
Even as we were saying that this is the most
underrated team in basketball, like I was still again significantly
underrating them. So that's what it's more about to me.

(01:02:23):
The Pacers just putting together a phenomenal game and a
really impressive series. And like, obviously they beat the Calves
with all their guys out there in this game, but
in game one there was no Garland. In game two,
the Pacers eeeked out a win where there was no
Garland or MOBILEI or Hunter. So I do think that
context is important. This is a really ugly game for
the Calves, very very ugly, But it's not enough for

(01:02:45):
me to say they're overrated, especially because, like I always
viewed them as a clear third team to Okay see
in Boston end to end this year, I said, yeah,
I think if they belong in conversations with those teams
more than anybody else. Absolutely, I thought that they were
a clear third team better than the field. I also

(01:03:05):
thought that because of some of their defensive vulnerabilities, I
couldn't put them at the same level as OKAC in Boston.
So no, I don't feel like they should be looked
down upon and like written off.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
I agree they definitely have under delivered, but I don't
think they're overrated by any means.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
I mean, it's hard and I understand if people are like, well,
how can you say that when they just got blown out.
It's like, this is the only game when they've got
blown out while actually having their dues. I mean, they
took care of business in game three. Games one and two,
they didn't have their guys, And like, I know that
Pacers fans get upset when people talk about injuries against them.
I want to be clear. I think the Pacers are
phenomenal and absolutely deserving of going to the Eastern Conference

(01:03:49):
Finals if they get things done. I want to be
as positive about them as possible, but I also want
to be fair to the Cavs and not be overly
negative and say this was a horrible performance, but it
feels worse because of the context that they were put
in in part because of key injuries to keep players. Now,
obviously they also choked away Game two, but they choked

(01:04:11):
away Game two down three of their five best.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Players I had in the same amount of regular season success.
That is the other area that I want to hit on, though,
is the fact that they did waste the Donovan Mitchell game.
And yeah, we knew it was gonna come back to
bite them. I didn't think it was gonna be like this,
you know, I thought it would maybe they go down
with more of a fight than this, But we knew
it was gonna come back to get them, and it
ultimately does. Man, you can't waste a game like that

(01:04:35):
because it again, man, that basketball pendulum. We knew Donovan
was gonna be due for a game like this as well.
You know. Again, maybe not to this extent, but Donovan
can't give you forty and eight every night. No, he
had to capitalize on those games.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
He can't. But I was drinking the d Mitch kool
aid after the last two games, and I thought he
was to get what he wanted. Yeah. No, I definitely
was not expecting a Donovan Mitchell clunker. And like, listen, man,
I said after Game three that I viewed the Calves
as slight favorites to come back and win the series.
I said, absolutely, Indiana can win the series. But I
felt really good about the Calves. So are they overrated?

(01:05:12):
I'm gonna say definitely, not by as much as a
lot of people want you to think right now. And
I'm gonna say, let's see how they respond, because they're
not done yet. I mean, do you think the series
is over? Like, do you think the Calves are dead?

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
I just don't think they can win three in a row.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
I can't say that they're dead. I think that they're
too good to call them dead. I still think the
Calves are a great basketball team. I do think that
they are a special offense. Now, obviously, if Donovan Mitchell
can't play because of this ankle thing, well then okay, yeah,
then they're dead. I mean, I guess we'll have to
see what the injury status is. And I still don't
think that Garland looks right out there. But if Mitchell

(01:05:52):
is able to play and he's reasonably healthy, like, I
think that they at least get Game five. And the
only way this series is over is if Indiana broke
their will. We know how long the odds are coming
back from three to one down, but I can't say
that they're incapable of that. With how great their offense is.
It's certainly unlikely, but I can't say that it's impossible

(01:06:14):
until we see what's going on with Donovan Mitchell. And listen,
if they come out flat in Game five, well then
that's embarrassing, and then that means that their spirit was
broken and there's no excusing that you can't go out
there and get dogged in back to back do or
Die games and this one already, like it's inexcusable. It's
inexcusable for the Cavs, but within the context of the
series compared to what we saw from them this entire year,

(01:06:37):
Like I think, you do have to acknowledge what they
were going through in the first two games and the
spot that that put them in. But if they are
to come back from three to one down, they need
great Donovan Mitchell again, they need great Darius Garland. They
need great collective three point shooting, which they just have
not gotten in this series. Ironically, this ends up being

(01:06:58):
their best three point shooting game when all is said
and done, and really the biggest thing maybe I mean,
those star performances are huge, but they need to be
the ones setting the tone on the boards and on
the defensive end. That's what happened in Game three, Like
lots of great offensive stuff, they dominated the offensive glass
and they fucking brought it defensively this game. It was

(01:07:22):
a complete reversal. Indiana set the tone defensively. They were
the ones dictating the glass, which really shouldn't be the case.
The Calves should be able to dictate the glass more,
I think that they could go to their double big
looks more like maybe you could be critical of Kenny
Atkinson there, just in terms of the fact that he
never fully leaned into just playing his best players outside

(01:07:43):
of Donovan Mitchell a ton. But again, everything is weird
with this series because now we're talking about like two games.
This has been a two game series where the Calves
have actually had all of their four best players available,
So it makes some of the analysis a little bit weirder.
But the path back is very long for Cleveland, especially
with how good Indiana is, and if Mitchell and Garland

(01:08:04):
are both going to be hampered, then I do think
that it's probably over. But I won't write them off
until I know that Donovan Mitchell is not one hundred percent,
because that man is capable of special stuff. This offense
is capable of special stuff, This defense can be really
damn good. This was just a terrible performance by them
and an incredible performance by Indiana.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
I don't think they're coming back from this. It's a
lot to ask for me, like, and also I think
another thing that you got to mention too is I mean, like,
literally Indiana has completely made Ty Jerome one of the
best bench players in the league. Like a non factor.
It's like, for sure, when you know, I mean like
he was wasn't the biggest components of like them having
an elite offense, right, but it was a component the
fact that he could generate really great looks for you

(01:08:46):
with Garland or Mitchell off the floor, He's a non factor,
DeAndre Hunter. I mean, I'm not picking on UVA Cavs specifically,
but they were both bad and have been bad in
this series. And Drey was really bad in this game too,
Like you know, that was a strength of this CASS
team is their death. And if those guys are going
to play below their means and you're not gonna get
all your juice out of your stars, it's like, I

(01:09:08):
just think it's and you're down three to one already.
I do think it's too much of an uphill battle
to climb back from.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
I see what you're saying. What I would also say
is like after Game three, I was looking at the
Calves and I was like, this is exactly what I
wanted to see out of them, with the exception of Garland,
and I know that they're capable of that, So like, yeah,
I totally agree. It's unlikely that they summon it in
three consecutive games and they check all the boxes they need.

(01:09:36):
I can't say it's impossible, and I won't say it's impossible.
Let's see, it's really really hard, that's for sure, but
I can't say it's impossible. But again, you got to
consider man. So much credit has to be given to
the Pacers. They have been an elite basketball team for
a vast majority of the year, and they're showing everybody
exactly why. We have a generous donation from boleron nine.

(01:09:56):
Pacers depth also limits injury unlike other teams. It's true,
it's a fair point. They can play ten quality basketball players.
They've got ridiculous depth. Calvs also have great depth, though,
and they didn't really overtax their stars with minutes. They
all just ended up getting hurt anyways. But I mean,
that's absolutely something that makes the Pacers so special. What
Matherin can give you, what TJ. McConnell can give you

(01:10:19):
off the bench, what Obi can give you off the bench,
Jars Walker defensively, just a ton of good basketball players,
and everybody in their starting five does their job at
a high level. We have a chat that pertains to
the Timberwolves Warriors game, So we'll get to that now.
Kayley says, shout out Julius Randall parentheses. Never thought i'd
say that, Logan. Shout out Julius Randall. I mean, he

(01:10:40):
is a big component of the Timberwolves taking a two
to one lead in a game that was maybe a
little bit closer than what they signed up for in
Steph Curry's absence. What did you take away from their
Game three performance?

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
I mean, not a whole lot, shouted Julius Randall. Shout
out Anthony Edwards, Shout daniels. I mean, look, if you're
gonna get good offensive games from Randall and McDaniels, Randall
McDaniel mentioned, shout out Randall McDaniel, shout out, look, if
you're gonna get great games and good shooting nights from
those guys, I'm confident Minnesota man like and An is

(01:11:16):
normally really consistent, and I trust him to get his looks.
He's been really off just finishing at the rack, which
has been really strange. We talked about that a lot too.
But if Randall McDaniels is gonna pull their weight, it
takes a lot of pressure off of Van and the
rest of this team to do a lot and then
they can lock up defensively. To me, those guys are
really big question marks, but their ceiling game to game

(01:11:39):
is really high. I do want to give a ton
of credit to Randall, though I never thought I'd be
saying that either, but he has played excellent basketball in
these playoffs. Situationally, he's been excellent. He's been great as
a decision maker, and he hasn't been forcing the issue,
which is always the biggest Randall thing. Also shut out
Jimmy Buckets and especially kaminga man. I didn't kaminga thirty

(01:12:03):
piece was not was not on my twenty twenty five
NBA Playoffs Bengo card, I'll tell you that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Yeah, I think that you have to give a lot
of credit to the Warriors for making this game as
close as they did. I do want to give credit
to Randall, though, because I do think that he's been
the most impressive Timberwolves player in these playoffs, and I
mean that relative to my expectations for them. I thought
that he was really really good in this one. I
thought that, especially in the second half, he was just

(01:12:32):
very composed doing the same stuff that he was doing
in Game two, where he's attacking where he has an
advantage out of the post in isolation, he's drawing the
defense in he's making the kickout pass. I mean, is
that twelve assists for him in back to back games,
Like he has just been dining and really dissecting the defense.
First half, I thought he was forcing it against Dre

(01:12:53):
one on one a little too much, where I don't
like that as much. But when he has anybody else
on him, he hasn't advantage physically and he's made the
most of it. And it was a rough first half.
I mean, it was a really rough first half for
the whole Timberwolves offense. They had forty points. But then
he did a really nice job of getting down hill.
He found the three ball more, which was also big

(01:13:15):
because that had been really off for him for several games.
But it's been interesting to watch him attack this Warriors
defense that seems more concerned with his shooting threat than
his downhill threat. And I thought that he was able
to get those driving angles, get good looks at the rim,

(01:13:36):
and then obviously actually finished them in the second half
of this game at a level that we hadn't seen
from him in the first couple games of this series,
so I did come away from this one impressed by
both of the Timberwolves stars in the second half. That
being said, still a little closer than I think they
probably would have liked to see. And I did think
in the first half the Warriors defense was able to

(01:13:58):
still give them some real trouble and they still forced
them into eighteen turnovers in this game. Like I haven't
been impressed by the Timberwolves offense in this series, I'll
say that I think that Randolin and have been pretty
good in Games two and three, but they were also
really really bad in Game one. Now, this Warriors defense
is also really good, and I mean they were the

(01:14:20):
number one defensive basketball after the Jimmy Butler trade. But
I do feel a little more concerned about the Timberwolves
offense than I did coming into this series. I feel
more similar to the Timberwolves offense now as I did
like going into the playoffs when I was a little
more concerned about it. On the Warriors side, it's the
best Jimmy game of the series by far, just way

(01:14:41):
more aggressive than he has been previously going at Dante DiVincenzo,
using his strength, going at nas Reed, using his quickness,
playing very downhill, wasn't great finishing at the rim, but like,
that's okay. He was attacking, that's the most important thing.
He was getting solid looks at the rim couple threes,
Like you're really not gonna get much better out of

(01:15:03):
him than thirty three seven and seven like he gave
you in this one. I will say though, down the stretch,
still too passive, Like last eight minutes of this game
zero points on zero for four shooting with one turnover.
I get it. It's a high bar if you're saying
I need you to give me more than thirty three
seven and seven, especially considering that in the first two

(01:15:25):
games of this series it didn't really look like he
had the juice to give you that. Like I was
really worried about his explosiveness with the glued and he
was just being more passive and wasn't really producing at
the level they needed from him whatsoever. This game was
a big improvement, but still down the stretch, like they
just needed him to be Superman and they needed him
to be Batman to use his terminology, and he was

(01:15:47):
not capable of doing that. And then like they were
running their clutch offense more through Kaminga, who was great
in this game. But when I have Jimmy Butler on
the floor, I don't want my clutch offense running through
Jonathan Kaminga in the half court where he'sing and he's
settling for like these mid range jumpers and turnarounds. That
was not good overall, though. I mean, I think the

(01:16:07):
theme of this game. The takeaway is just that the
Warriors offensive supporting cast is not good enough. Brandon Pajemski
has really struggled in this series, has struggled to put
together any sort of consistency in these playoffs offensively, but
really does not look comfortable in his shot. Moses Moody
basically has fallen out of the rotation again and has

(01:16:29):
looked uncomfortable with his shot. The one dude who really
has stepped up consistently has been Buddy Healed, and then
Jonathan Kminga was great in this game.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
What do you think about Dre in this game?

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
I thought that Drey was a little too careless with
the basketball. I thought that he was struggling offensively, and
then I didn't like how he fouled out. I really
didn't like it. That looked like a pretty clean block
to me, So I did not like that. Yeah, but yeah,
he's got to be better.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
He does. I just it really sucks when you're down
stuff that like you just got to He's got to
be better, especially just protecting the rock Man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Yeah, absolutely, I do think defensively, I've been impressed by him,
and I've been impressed by the whole Warriors team. I
think they've been quite good overall.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
I'll ask you to follow up again. My answer has
not changed. Do you think the Warriors make it to six?

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
No, I don't think that they do. I do want
to give credit to though, to the guy who gave
them a chance to steal one in this one, alongside
Jimmy Butler. I do want to talk about the Jonathan
Kaminga experience because I've seen a lot of discourse after
this performance talking about Kaminga and I think it's an
interesting topic. So I first want to give credit to

(01:17:39):
where he was great in this game, which was in
a lot of areas. I thought that he was phenomenal
attacking in transition. I thought that you really felt his
unique ability to pressure the rim on this team just
being by far the best athlete out there was valuable.
I thought that for the second straight game he was
really good as a cutter, and then for the second
straight game he was also really good as a jump shooter.

(01:18:00):
I mean, in game two, you saw him working from
the mid range. In this one, he knocks down three triples. Now,
a couple of them are at the very very end
of this game, but like, he is feeling it offensively
right now, and he has a level of juice and
ability to create a shot for himself that this team
really really needs when Steph is not out there. That's

(01:18:21):
why I want to explain how I think it makes
perfect sense for Kaminga to be out of the rotation
when Steph is available, like Kaminga has been throughout these playoffs,
and why I also think it makes perfect sense for
him to be playing as much as he is right now,
and why I think he's really important to the Warriors
when Steph Curry is out, because I'm seeing a lot
of people who are like, Okay, Kaminga's playing this, well,

(01:18:42):
what the hell? Why was he not in the rotation?
Why is he not consistently getting twenty minutes a night
for this team or whatever. And the reason for that
is when Steph and Jimmy Butler are out there, you
got to think about what the Warriors need. What the
Warriors need alongside them are shooters, good decision makers, consistently
engaged defenders, smart off ball movers because they have the

(01:19:07):
high end offensive shot creation that they need. What they
need are guys who are going to compliment them in
filling all the gaps and do all of the good
role player stuff. Jonathan Kaminga is usually none of those
things that I just mentioned. He's a bad decision maker,
he's a bad passer, he has bad feel offensively, he's
a bad shooter thirty percent from deep. He's a very

(01:19:28):
spacey defender. So he is somebody who is not good
at filling those specific holes that the Warriors need when
they are at full strength. And he has had many
chances to prove otherwise. He has had four years to
develop and prove otherwise, during which he has consistently been
given minutes. In fact, even after he came back from

(01:19:50):
his injury in the home stretch of this season, up
until the Clippers game, the last game of the regular season,
when the Warriors were in like a full on playoff environment.
Jonathan Kminga was playing twenty one minutes per game, so
he had many chances to show that he could slot
into that role effectively, and he was consistently bad. He
wasn't doing any of the things that they needed from

(01:20:12):
him in terms of what I was talking about with shooting,
with smart cutting, with good decision making, good passing, feel,
consistent defensive effort, et cetera. Now it's a different game.
Now it's a different roster because Steph is out. They
just need an infusion of talent and offensive creation wherever
they can get it, and Kaminga at his best brings
that he's aggressive, he can get downhill. He's a top

(01:20:33):
ten raw athlete in the sport, like truly a freak
raw athlete, and that's when he's shined. Like even earlier
in the year, he had a phenomenal game against the
Rockets and led them to a win when they were
down Steph. Like when Steph is out, Kaminga averages almost
twenty points per game because he has the opportunity to
step into more of a role that suits him. His

(01:20:56):
ceiling for a player of his level is really high
because he's an extremely gifted basketball player in some ways,
but he's an extremely limited basketball player in other ways,
and when Steph and Jimmy are out there, his significant
limitations and the low floor that comes from those is
more significant than the high ceiling that he can give

(01:21:19):
you when he is in a position that is best
suited for him. So that's my take on that. That's
why I think it makes sense that he shouldn't play
when this team is at full strength, and that he
is very valuable for them right now. And that's why,
like I just think he needs to be on a
different team for a number of reasons. I think he
needs to be on a different team because I think

(01:21:40):
individually he could shine more and the Warriors do not
get the most potential out of him because he's not
in the right spot basically to do what he does best.
And we'll see what he can develop into elsewhere, but
it's going to be elsewhere that he has the opportunity
to do it. Really.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Yeah, good synopsis, and I agree with most everything which
you said, but like you don't even see an opportunity
for him to play in like non Steph minutes or
something like that, Like where all right, well, we don't
have our offensive number one out there, maybe him give
us a little bit of a pop. Do you think
that has to do more with the fact that he
needs rhythm, like he needs to get going beforehand, or the.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Tough thing is non steph minutes when he is healthy.
Those are the Jimmy minutes. That's when Jimmy runs this show. Well.
In the regular season, Kaminga and Jimmy lineups were really
really bad, and in the playoffs offensively, I still think
that they have like a negative eleven relative in those minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
If you could get Kaminga, I thought he did a
really good job attacking closeouts and against lower footed defenders.
I think that if you could get him, you know,
I don't know exactly what the lineup looks like, but
like a small ball five, maybe lineup with Like, fuck,
that's the shooting sucks. That's the only thing. It sucks
about that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
That's the biggest problem. That's thing about playing Jimmy and
Kaminga together. What I would say is, like the last
couple games, I've been impressed not just by like him
catching fire as a jump shoot or whatever. Like his
cutting's been really good, and that's something that has not
consistently been good for kaminga whatsoever. So when he's doing that,
I mean, that's where he brings his most value offensively.

(01:23:21):
But I still think that fundamentally this team needs shooting
most because we know what teams are going to try
to do, and they're going to try to force everybody
other than Steph to beat them as shooters, and kamingas
shooting well right now, but that's not reliable. So like
I want to give him his credit, but I also
want to like make sure we keep the discourse realistic

(01:23:41):
because there are a lot of people who I presume
are not Warriors fans, who have not been through this
entire journey and watch these games closely, and they know
he was highly drafted. They see the flashes, and they
see the talent, and as a Warriors fan and as
somebody who's watched basically every game of Jonathan Mingo's career
close to it, the reality is not as fun as
the highs not most do.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
You think he needs to go to like a bad team,
like a team that it doesn't have, Like what I'm
saying is.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
And under the Raptors all they want are rangy athletic wings.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
Well, you can bet Grady Dick, Yeah, Grady Dick.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
No, I don't think he should actually go to the
Raptors if they added another one of those guys. But yeah,
I think he's best served in like a spot where
he has opportunity to grow. The concern now is he's
four years deep. Yeah, so like this isn't a super
young player we're talking about anymore. This is a guy
who's about to get his second contract. And what is
that second contract going to look like? When you're like, Okay,

(01:24:37):
there is this upside because of your athletic profile, but
there's so many other areas that you still haven't developed.
Do we believe that you are a cornerstone or are
you just a guy who has really good stretches. I
still lean on the side of the ladder. I don't
think he's a cornerstone. I don't think he's a future star.
But if he ever is going to blossom, it's not
going to be with the Warriors. It's not the right spot.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
I think it could be like a really hot, I impact
role player, like an elite role player. I just don't
see that that smart ceiling well, I just mean.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
That would just have to take such a level of
consistency from him doing the little things, which has been
his exact failure as a player up to this point.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
My thing is he's still so young. Like I get
that he's four years DBLs and figured out some of
those things, but it's like, when you've got these kind
of athletic traits, if he can put it together mentally
at eighty percent, you're still getting a really impactful player.

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
I think Aaron Gordon Ark where you know, he ends
up going to a team that really gets the best
out of him. I guess the frustrating thing is just
like he's been in a spot where he's been asked
to be a role player from the jump, and I
understand that's a difficult adjustment for a young player who's
so talented to make, but it shouldn't be an adjustment
where in four years you see almost no progress.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
Yeah. I was originally going to suggest that you send
him to a spot like Indiana because I think that
I think it'd be fun to see an athlete like
that with the passing, But it's like their front court
is already so crowded. It's like, I do think he
needs to go to a spot that just doesn't have Uh,
you know that's just desperate for players and talent. And hey, man,

(01:26:09):
if Kaminga has a couple other good games, so maybe
it could potentially raise his stock a little bit and
get finally dealt in this offseason.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Well, it's not going to be a deal at this point.
He's gonna be a free agent.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
You got to give him the bag.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
Bro, No, I don't think they should give him the
bag at all. Man, We've already been through this.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
I know. That's just so crazy to me that you're
just gonna you just let the fourth pick go seventh. Damn,
I didn't realize Kminga was that late. I thought he
was fourth.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Get ready to learn Scottie Barnes, my friend.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
But again, man, you just wasted a first round pick. Bro.
Nothing You actually got nothing out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
Bro is literally espousing the sunken cost fallacy to me right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
Now, Nothing out of it?

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
Yeah, tough luck. You messed up the pick and you
should have traded him earlier. That's life. Sometimes you can't
fix it now. You don't dig yourself out of a
hole by digging deeper.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
I mean, what would you give it?

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
What is the dollar?

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
I can't get that big of a contract. When am
I give him like ten million a year?

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
Not even close. Dude, He's gonna ask for at least
twenty five million years, paying him that he wanted the max.

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Nobody hell is given Kaminga twenty five a year bruh.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Maybe somebody, maybe somebody bites on that potential. I wouldn't
do it, But maybe you're joking. I'm not joking.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
You're saying, hypothetically someone could sign him to a four year,
one hundred million dollar deal. You think that's feasible for Kamingo.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
I'm saying that's certainly what he's expecting. He's not going
to come back on basically his rookie contract. He thinks
he's a future star man.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
He hasn't done anything well, you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
And I know that he doesn't want to hear that.
And now he's coming off of a playoff run where
he just dropped thirty after he had eighteen.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
I go go get your go get your bread. I
guess man, but I think that's a gross overpay if
that's his price.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Yeah, I wouldn't do that. At the same time, at
ten million dollars, I would absolutely pay Jonathan Kaminga. I
mean that's worth the risk, but no, that's not the contract.
He's going to get a big contract. He's going to
get a relatively big contract, or at least that's what
he's looking for. So shout out KAMINGA man, been two
really really good games. I just wanted to give my

(01:28:19):
take on what I think some people who aren't closely
watching the Warriors might miss in the whole Jonathan kaminga
saga to the question that you asked. No, I don't
think the Warriors are going to push this to Game six,
which would be their opportunity to get Steph back. But
with how well their defense has played, I can't say

(01:28:41):
that it's not possible. Like they were right in this game. Obviously,
they gave the Timberwolves fits in Game one, and Randall
and Ant have adjusted and I think they've gotten a
much better sense of how to attack this defense. But
when you got the number one defense in basketball for
last third of the season, like that does translate and
that does give you floor. I just think the Warriors

(01:29:01):
offense is really really limited and that's where they struggle,
and I expect them to continue to struggle. On that note,
Logan Camden, is it true that we are going to
be back tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
I'm chaining my radiator. I will be here tomorrow night.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
You don't have any damn saying the matter. You're gonna
be back here and we'll talk about Timberwols, Warriors, we'll
talk about Nick Celtics. Both of those game fours. Cannot
wait for them. If you enjoyed this show and you've
been enjoying the playoff basketball, well I hope you continue
to enjoy this journey with us. We have been live
basically every night of the postseason, and we'll continue to

(01:29:37):
be throughout this second round. So you can find all
of our full episodes right here on YouTube. Of course,
you can join us live postgame or you can watch
them back after the fact. You can listen to our
podcast across all audio platforms, and you can follow us
across social TikTok and Instagram at nerd sesshon Twitter, at
nerd underscore Session to see clips from the show, graphics
from the show, and all of our good old fashioned

(01:29:58):
trivia content. We just have a high old time. Don't
be logan mm hmm. He's got to say that he's
chained his radiator, and if he says no, then I
press him against the hot radiator.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
No, it's really enjoyable. I have a great time. Thank
you very much, so please don't please don't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Thank you very much. And that is ten V bucks
to you, my friend. That's going to be a new skin.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
I'm getting.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
Hell yeah, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
With that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
As always appreciate you guys. I've been Garson Braber, I've
been Logan Candid and this was an ird sash.

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Nerd Sesh - Game 4 Reactions: Thunder BOUNCE BACK vs. Nuggets, Pacers DESTROY Cavs

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nerd Sesh - Game 4 Reactions: Thunder BOUNCE BACK vs. Nuggets, Pacers DESTROY Cavs