January 8, 2025 • 43 mins
If you’ve ever heard the term “estate planning” and thought it was something only for the old, wealthy, or those with children, think again. In today’s January Jumpstart podcast episode — designed to help you make 2025 one of your best years yet — we’ll be exploring how the process of organizing your will, as well as encouraging family members to do so, can be the key to unlocking a legacy of generational wealth for yourself and your loved ones.
Joining me for this conversation is the founder of the Association of Black Estate Planning Professionals, Attorney Aimee Griffin. Aimee is the principal attorney of Life & Legacy Counselors, an estate and business succession firm committed to creating, protecting, and transferring wealth. She is committed to strategic community economic development for Black people and serves as a corporate counselor, professor, and community educator. In today's conversation, we break down the steps of estate planning, highlight common mistakes to avoid during the process, and explore how estate planning can serve as a powerful tool for addressing the racial wealth gap.
About the Podcast
The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation
about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions
we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed
psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find
(00:32):
a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy
for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening
to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant
to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed
mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining
(00:58):
me for session three ninety three of the Therapy for
Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi. I'm Amy Griffin, an attorney and founder of the
Association of Black State Planning Professionals. Join me for this
special January Jumpstar episode designed to support you in making
twenty twenty five your best year yet.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
If you've ever heard the term of state planning and
thought it was something only for the old wealthy, are
those of the children, think again. In today's January Jumpstart episode,
designed to help you make twenty twenty five one of
your best years yet. We'll be exploring how the process
of organizing your will, as well as encouraging family members
to do so, can be the key to unlocking a
(01:53):
legacy of generational wealth for yourself and your loved ones.
Joining me for this conversation is the founder of this
association of Black estate Planning Professionals, Attorney Amy Griffin. Amy
is the principal attorney of Life and Legacy Counselors, an
estate and business succession firm committed to creating, protecting, and
transferring wealth. She's committed to strategic community economic development for
(02:17):
Black people and serves as a corporate counselor, professor, and
community educator. During our conversation, we will break down the
steps of estate planning, highlight common mistakes to avoid during
the process, and explore how estate planning can serve as
a powerful too for addressing the racial wealth gap. If
something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share
(02:40):
with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in
Session or join us over in the Sister Circle to
talk more about the episode. You can join us at
community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Amy is my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, so can you tell me how you got into
the specific practice of family and estate planning.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
As you know, lawyers can't tell a quick story. So
the truth is that my parents were civil rights activists.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I grew up in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I had a good government job, and so when you
have parents who are a civil rights activist, you see
things through the lens of black and white. And so
I was again overseeing contracting and procurement for a state
agency and realize black folks didn't have access. And with me,
if I'm overseeing contractor and procurement and there is no access,
I know that there's a significant problem. So at forty
(03:41):
I quit my good government job. With two kids, I
was a divorced mom. Went to law school because you
can't win the game if you don't know the rules.
After graduation from law school, I created the newly Black
Chamber of Commerce. It's not just to get a good job,
but how do you make good jobs for the community.
And so I was working with business owners to create
(04:03):
jobs and opportunities. And one of the business owners with
whom I work gotten contracts as a result of the
work that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
He died. He died with nothing in place.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
And so what I learned it's not just what you make,
it's what you keep that impacts our community.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
So I went back to law school.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And got my Master of Laws and elder law and
estate plan so it can be about strategically supporting folks
to not just build wealth, but how do we create
it for multigenerational purposes.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Thank you so much for sharing that story. I think
when people think about estate planning, we typically think about
like life insurance and inheritance, but I know that there's
much more. So can you give us a more comprehensive
understanding of what we mean when we say estate planning.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's a comprehensive look at not just your assets, but
your values. And we named are from Life Legacy Counselors
as a result of that, because it is being thoughtful
about what is it you want to have happened? Estate
planning answers three questions. First and foremost, what happens when
you die? That's what people think about, freak out about
and say, Okay, I'm dead. It doesn't really matter. The
(05:09):
second question is what happens if you're unable to care
for yourself. If you're unable to care for yourself, you
want the right people to make the right decisions for you,
because in many cases we've had circumstances where people don't
speak to family members again because of the actions taken
during incapacity. Also as the expenses of incapacity, what does
(05:30):
that look like and how do we plan for it?
But mostly what I think about is state planning is
pulling in your life insurance, your philanthropic work, and all
that kind of stuff to decide what is the legacy
that you want to leave, Because if you have a
great life insurance policy and leave it to someone who
doesn't out to manage money, or someone who has suddence
abuse issues, or no matter what it is, if there
(05:51):
is a structure and support to create multi generational wealth,
it's just often sometimes it's not just a best blessing,
it's a detriment. I tell people are the time. I'm
a professional pessimist because I've seen what can go wrong.
We've seen those lottery wedding shows where those people at
the end of the show they have nothing. But what
we know is, and inheritance is a lot like a
(06:12):
lottery weddings.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
If you don't have a.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Structure and a plan and support system in place, or
the right people with the right knowledge base in.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Place, what's going to happen. It'll just be lost.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So, according to a twenty twenty two Consumer Report survey,
seventy seven percent of black adults don't have a will.
So I wonder if you could share a little bit
about the history of why this has been challenging, especially
in the black community.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, if we start off from the fact that so
often the laws have been used against black people, right,
so we don't necessarily know that we have as the
resource those things that we can do to make it
to our betterment as well as so often we have
we talk to estate planning folks who don't value what
we are, who we are, and what we have, right,
(06:57):
and if we look at the racial wealth gap, we
know that we have a small percentage of what the
white counterparts have. And so if you go to meet
with a professional who has the conversation and doesn't respect
or honor the work that you've built, it's not encouraging
or valuing, right. And so one of the things that
I've been mindful about is how do we one work
(07:18):
with anybody wherever they are to support them, to be
thoughtful about how do we build multigeneration.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, if you.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Start off with very little, it can become much more
with each generation. If there is indeed a plan, or
we don't even know, we think we don't have enough
to matter.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
It's insignificant. And sometimes we have shame that's.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Associated with that which we've gained at this point, and
we think that we should have so much more, and
therefore we don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I appreciate you sharing that, and I wonder if you
could talk a little bit about because I think just
as a society, we don't do well with conversations about death,
especially our own right. So what is like the mental
health piece of the difficulty of even having this conversation
about estate planning?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Oftentimes we focus on just right.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Estate planning is more about thriving, because if we just
are surviving from day to day, that doesn't give us
the vantage point of thinking about how do we build
and grow and plan and strategically move to thriving. If
we are focused on if I can just get through,
we're not going to think about what happens when we
get through. So there is of course all the superstitions
around if I talk about it is going to happen, right,
(08:24):
I tell people, if you don't talk about, it's still
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And how do you see estate planning as something that
is a very important tool in generational will?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
What we know is that there are so many ways
in which the standard system is about taking your money right,
and most folks don't even understand.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
What probate is.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
And probate is the legal act of taking something that's
in your name out of your name if it doesn't
have a way to do it. And we don't understand,
you know, we hear about you know, what does a
will mean? We don't really know because we don't know
the conversation that it means that you've got to go
through the court system. And when you go through the
court system, we know that the court's are going to
(09:08):
get paid, right, and so we have to know the
strategies around how do we avoid and minimize the death taxes?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And there are death taxes that are truly taxes being
a state inheritance, but there are true death taxes that
are based on ignorance that if we can avoid probate,
we're safe and the money we don't have to pay
the court, and there are a lot of other things
we don't have to pay. We have to pay for bond,
but it's only if we are able to strategically maneuver
(09:37):
the process of transferring assets from a person who has
them built them and to the person they want them
to go to.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Can you share any examples of like generational wealth or
like legacy that you feel like you've helped to build
by helping someone with a state planning?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You used a great example with life insurance. So one
of the things that we encourage folks to do all
the time because even if you don't a lot of money,
if you haven't saved a lot of money, there are
things that you can do. For example, one of the
tools that we encourage people to do is when you
have a baby, be your child or your grandchild, to
get a whole life insurance policy owned by a trust
(10:16):
that is cash earning because it's cheapest when they're right
born right. Because what we know, life insurance pricing is
based upon your age as well as your health. When
you ran a new baby for six months. That's when
you are the youngest, right and then ideally the healthiest.
And so let's say you do that. That encourages us,
enables us to have the lowest amount cost but still
(10:40):
have the value. And as a result, they can withdraw
from some of that for college because it will continue
to be interest bearing and grow.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
You can draw from.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Some of that as a down payment on the house,
and then what we know is when that child passes away,
that money goes back into the trust for the next
generation of the ways. Another way is that when we
think about home ownership, what are the things that we
talk about all as a community all the time, is
that home ownership is they're not making any more land,
(11:10):
so our land will continue to appreciate what money evaporates.
So if we strategically plan for a house that we
have that if I have three kids in one house
to leave to my three kids, I don't want them
to sell it. If there are multiple kids, that it
can become income producing property and as a result it
can continue to appreciate. All of my children can benefit.
(11:33):
But we don't do a distribution of all of the assets.
We distribute a portion so that it can continue to
grow from generation to generation. The trust principle can continue
to grow if we are thoughtful about how do we
protect it. One of the things that I tell folks
who have multile kids, don't just say if I have
three kids, to divide it equally, because then what we
(11:56):
know is all of our kids aren't created equal when
it comes to financial management. And so if we're thoughtful
about how do we strategically allow them to as opposed
to divide and disseminate, that they do what I call
is create and collaborate create wealth, and that they can
build an enterprise for multi generational wealth.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
But it's got to be that strategic planning. Jointly.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
We know that we can be thoughtful about how do
we work together. We can be strategic about building wealth.
But it's got to be an intentional thing. It's not
going to be a default setting.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Jimmy, how are you working with some of your clients
around some of the things that you mentioned right, like
the shame that maybe I should have more or do
I even really have enough to leave? What kind of
culturally responsive approaches are you using to working with your clients.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
We spend a lot of time doing education, right, we
probably connect with eight hundred people a month, educating folks
across the country because of webinars seminars, and I've had
people that say, you know, I've had to hear this
a few times to talk about what does that look like?
Because there are many times where it is the downside
(13:04):
of just knowing what happens if you don't plan. Because
we do a lot of stuff for the people that
we love and that we care about. If we are
thoughtful about that, strategic about that, we'll take those next steps.
I also like to work with a lot of churches
and community organizations so that they can use the benefit
of their trusted relationship to understand that we need to
(13:26):
have those conversations.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Even though it's not so easy.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Can you tell us a little bit about what does
happen if we don't plan.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
If there's not a will, there is the state that
you live in, and every state is slightly different. That
gets to determine who gets what, when and how, And
so a lot of times people think, oh, my spouse
will get everything. No, your spouse will get a percentage
of everything in most cases if you don't have any
sort of a will, But a will again directs probate.
(13:56):
And so let me just walk you a little bit
through what this typical probate process that someone takes the
will if there is one and a petition to the
court that identifies the assets that the person had that
passed away when that person passes away, the value of
the assets that the court has based on the value
(14:17):
it is provided to the court for court fees. The
more you have, the more you paid to the court. Right,
So that's I feel like scam number one because if
you're affluent and you've saved a lot of stuff, save
a lot of money, then you've got to pay the
court more. Then the second thing that happens is that
the court will put a notice in the paper that
(14:38):
says Amy died, does she owe you any money? And
you have to wait Sears and Robot comes to say
that I owe money. American Express, any hospital bills come
forward to say, Amy owes me money and that should
be paid before my grand joken should be paid. If not,
only do we wait for them to tell us, then
we have to wait for them to guarantee that I
(14:59):
am indeed or that my loved ones have indeed made
those payments.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
So there's a significant.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Waiting period before anything can happen, because what happens when
you pass away those things, those bank accounts, etc. Are
frozen until you are able to get what we call
letters of administration because then you have no authority to act.
You can't even open the mail of someone who's passed
away until the court gives you that direction. Depending on
(15:24):
the state that you're living in, some states have inheritance
taxes depending on the relationships and some do not. So
like I'm sitting in Maryland right now, so if my
niece receives anything from me, there is a percentage that
has to be paid an inheritance tax, and it has
to be approved by the court before any distributions are made.
(15:45):
So again probate that this is a state administration is
called probate and takes many times two to three years
before completion.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
So we encourage people to avoid probate.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
One we don't want to have to pay the court
fees and many times the legal phase, our significant as
well as the executor or the personal representative gets paid
a portion as well as praise the lord the lawyers.
So I encourage people to be thoughtful by what is
it we want to keep for the benefit of the ones.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
That we love more from our conversation after the break,
But first a quick snippet of what's coming up next
week on TVG.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I always say that beauty is a feeling, because, yes,
it's something you can see, but how does it make
you feel when you see that something that's beautiful or
someone that's beautiful? What does it leave on you? Does
it leave a good impression? Does it leave you inspired?
When we see beautiful garden, when we look at a
really gorgeous home, taking beauty out of the context of people,
we look at environments or anything that provokes you to
(16:43):
feel something emotionally, it is a feeling. So I always
talk about, yes, it's great to look great, it's great
to get adult hair cut, it's beautiful to have a
nice new outfit, But if it doesn't make you feel
better inside, then it's just a mass it's just a
band aid. It's temporary.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
So something that often comes up is that people are
trying to have conversations with maybe parents and grandparents about
the importance of the same planning. Can you give us
some conversation starters that we might be able to use
with the people in our family about how to talk
about this maybe sensitively.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
One of the things that I always tried to do
is living examples, right when Chadwick Boseman passed away, when
Aretha Franklin passed away, and Melva Hass there were all
those lawsuits and bringing up those examples. But I often
try to recommend to people to use themselves as an example,
because many times people will say to me that, oh,
(17:49):
my mom doesn't want to do it because she thinks
for trying to kill her off. Right, But if you've
had it yourself, if you've completed that plan for yourself,
you can use the examples in the experience, in the
conversation as a starter to say, this is what's going
on for me, or this is what happened when I've
done this. You make it not such a mystery because
we're often fearful about those things that we just don't know,
(18:11):
and also being very thoughtful. I always say to people,
it's one of those things that it's really important to
have relationship with people that you like. It's a hard conversation,
so don't just pick the first person that you see
in the yellow pages, where we don't have anymore. But
making sure that you reach out to someone with whom
you like. I always say that every law firm has
a personality, you know, core values. Make sure that you
(18:34):
identify someone with whom you find a connection, or else
it's not going to work because you're just going to
want to get through as of course, to really experience
because a lot of times people say to me, why
do I even need a lawyer? And I will say
to you, like Aretha Franklin didn't have a lawyer, but
she didn't do it right. As a result, her loved
one who has special needs was not taking care of
(18:57):
as well as she ends up paying a signal amount
of taxes that she would have not known that she
would have to pay. But only if we are able
to structure it appropriate. You don't know what you don't know,
and so I encourage people to have the benefit of
that professional to talk to and ask those hard questions.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So, Amy, how do we get started with this process?
And we are looking through Google like you recommended, right,
But what are we looking for at first? Are we
looking for a state planning attorney? And do they have
to be like in our state or can you work
with anybody in any state?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
No, you should work with a state planning attorney in
your state. Right, so that's first and foremost in your state.
But two, I say all the time that many times
we have a master of everyone. Right, I can I
get you out of jail if you ever broken back,
I can get you. But you know, we don't go
to doctors like that, so we shouldn't go to attorneys
(19:50):
like that. So there are many attorneys who are solopreneurs.
And you'll have an attorney who works all by him
or herself and has five are of expertise. That's not
typically the case, right, And so you can have those
two things that are interconnected. That makes sense. But if
you are at a state planning attorney, you shouldn't also
(20:12):
be doing criminal defense, right. Those two things don't really
align themselves. A lot of family lawyers and estate planners
are firm. We do business succession because that's really about
estate planning too, but it's state planning for a business
and being very thoughtful about that. But have the conversations.
I encourage people. We have webinars all the time and
most estate planners do. And then interview the attorney, get
(20:37):
to know what their values are and get to think
about what's important to them and make sure that's an alignment. Right,
And so we really want you to be comfortable enough
to ask the hard questions and to share your soul
about what keeps you up at night about leaving stuff
for your children or your grandchildren. Now, again we're a
big focus on multi generational wealth building, so we're very
(20:57):
thoughtful about not just your child, but your children's children.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Okay, so we've done our research, found the person that
we feel comfortable with, we've interviewed them. What is the
first step in this process of starting estate planning.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
We ask people to complete information about what's important, and
who's important and what exists. What's really important is also
that we have a plan for everything, all of your assets,
be it your digital assets, your financial assets, and your
sentimental assets. Right, because I don't want to leave a
dollar on the table. It used to be in the
(21:31):
newspaper that you can see unclaimed property notices. Sometimes people
don't really know what assets exist. Many times, if we
don't have a plan, we leave what I call a
scavenger hunt for our loved ones because they.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Don't know where the assets are or what the assets are.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Back in the day, we could sit in someone's house
for a quarter and all of the bank statements would
come through. Now we have everything online. There are banks
that aren't bricks and mortar anymore, So we got to
be able to identify what indeed exists. And then wanting
to make sure that we are caring for the people
that we care about, especially if you have minor children. Right,
(22:10):
if you have minor children, being thoughtful about what's going
to happen for them, who's going to be involved in
their lives, and how do we support them. We do
a thing called a child Development Plan for our minor children.
And again, as I said earlier in regards to Aretha Franklin,
if your loved one has special needs and receives governmental benefits,
(22:31):
you need to be thoughtful on how do we protect that,
because it doesn't take a lot to throw them off
of their benefits. And so we want to make sure
that we are protecting them and making sure that they
can have a quality of life that they want.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
So making that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Roadmap to the riches through the trusts or whatever the
estate plan looks like, and so how do we want
to plan for it, making sure that we've taken to consideration,
what are the strengths as well? As the areas of
weakness that our loved ones are challenged with that we
can create an action plan so that we can support
them that live the best life that they can have.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So when you said digital assets, Amy, are you talking
about like passwords, pictures? Like what are digital assets?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
All of the above now especially it used to be pictures,
Facebook pages, but now it's cryptocurrency. It's also your hotel
redeem points, your credit card rewards, all of those things
that we take for granted that we've spent a lot
of money to earn those things, so we need to
be able to manage them as well.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So you can give that to somebody else.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Absolutely, Remember it's not like it's a gift. They're earned.
Those things that are earned we get to be thoughtful about.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Okay, And you mentioned sentimental assets, so is that like
your wardrobe and those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
So, actually, if you can see behind me, you see
there's a picture of Thurgod Marshall and z Or in
Neil Hursty. That was a plaque that my mother received.
My mother is no longer living. There are heirlooms that
people really care about as well, and can us significant fights, right,
and so we encourage people to have a plan for
so many of those things, and we tell people greed
(24:08):
and grief are the two g's we have to guard
again because we don't really know what's going to happen,
but we know that they're going to feel some kind
of way. People that you love and so we get
to support them to make sure the heirlooms that they
have that means something to them get passed along.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So as a part of your planning, amy, is there
like a checklist that you have your clients go through
of like looking through everything in their house that they
may want to leave for someone after they're gone.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Most people say, oh, I don't have much, but the
reality is we all have a lot, whether or not
it's significant financial value, but what is valuable to someone
is based upon a lot of times the relationship that
you have. So we encourage people just walk through your house.
And sometimes it's easier to walk through with someone that
you love that notices things that you wouldn't notice because
(24:53):
we don't see what's there because we're used to seeing
it at so encouraging folks to take those steps to
take a picture of the room and sometimes those things
that we've taken for granted because they've been in our
family for.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So long we don't even see anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So encouraging folks to have a new, fresh eye look
as we walk through.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So in addition to figuring out what happens with the fts,
what other pieces are there of estate planning?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
How do we incentivize our young folks to have and
do and be what you've called them to. What we
know is that we want to make sure our loved
ones have the resources that they need to do whatever
they want to do, but not to have so many
resources that they don't do anything.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Many times we've had people.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Where just grief has just stuck them and they can
just not move because they have the resources that they
are not necessarily compelled to do anything, But then they
will sort of in essence waste the resources that are
available to them. Another thing that we encourage people to
do is if they have the value of philanthropy by giving,
and many many many Black folks do by either through
(25:58):
our houses of faith or just through our HBCUs or whatever.
There are many times when we give alanthropically. We encourage
people to incentivize that as well. They can do that
when they've passed away, but they can also encourage our
young folks to have that opportunity. I really want people
to be thoughtful about how do we teach children from
the time that they are young to have the mindset
(26:21):
of welcome And it may not seem like wealth because
they're starting out one spot. But I encourage folks in
many cases at the age of when the children are
teenagers or preteens to participate in the trust management so
that they can be thoughtful. And how do we coordinate
and strategically invest in the future for not just our kids,
(26:41):
but our kids' kids so they can be plannful of them.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
More from our conversation after the break And where does
the estate plan live? Amy, Like, I'm guessing the lawyer
has a copy. Is there somebody in the family who
is like entrusted with a copy? What's the process of
(27:05):
how the estate plan even like how do people even
know it exists?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So it depends, which is every lawyer's answer to every question.
But in Maryland and in some states but not the district,
the court can keep your will for safe keeping right
for five dollars in Maryland for a lifetime.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
You can keep the will at the register of wills.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
However, when I say one of the problems with probate
is that it is a public thing. Right anybody anywhere
can look at the will once you've passed away and
has published, and unfortunately it becomes a public process, and
many times vultures are looking at your assets and then
(27:47):
going after your heirs and your loved ones that they
see on the petition to go to seek them out
and to try to take advantage of their grief, and
unfortunately many times it happens. With that being said, I
encourage people to avoid probate, which is having a private
estate plan, which is oftentimes a trust. And so with
(28:07):
that being said, there is oftentimes a copy with the
attorney and the original is with the testator or the
person who has the estate plan, and I encourage people
to sometimes give a portion.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Now there are people think, oh, it's because we don't
want to give them.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
The whole thing is we don't want them to knock
them off in order to get the assets. But what
are the clauses that we often put in our estate
plans is that the slayer cannot benefit so that even
if they have this thought that if they've done something
to facilitate the end of life for our test stator,
they won't get anything as a result. That also reminds
me that we also have a pullboy in Bimbo clauses
(28:45):
for people who remarry after death. So we keep all
of those rules in place so that we can protect
multi generational if we have the plan, and that's why
we encourage people to have that strategic plan. You can
have a copy and you can form your executor or
your success or trustees where that plan is kept. And
it's often not safe or something to.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That effect, and is the successor typically like a family
member or like some other trusted person.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Or some other trusted person. It can be your family member,
but it depends.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I always say, if Pooky is your oldest child and
the Pooky has never managed money and doesn't manage money regularly,
don't appoint that Pooky.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
A lot of times people say, oh, he'll step up
when I pass away when I need them to.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
No, they won't. No, they won't.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So identify someone who manages money and has utmost integrity, right,
and then a backup to that person, because you don't
know who's going to be there when you need them
to be there as well as we want very specific
rules so that they can make sure that they're doing
exactly what you would want them to do, not what
they or their spouse would want them to do.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
So what kinds of things that you can encourage younger
people to think about, maybe even before they have a family,
in thinking about protecting their future, before they really feel
like they've created something. What kinds of conversations are things
should they be thinking about. Get in the mindset of
this thinking.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
What we know is again I'm a professional pessimist, right,
is that you should have your first estate plan at
the age of eighteen. And I tell people the story
all of the time. My baby girl was in college
and in a car accident in the hospital and I
was five hours away and did not have legal authority
to talk to the hospital. Praise the Lord, she's fine.
(30:29):
But at eighteen, we know that our children, although legally
of age, don't have the capacity or don't have the
wisdom in many cases, to manage all of those things
that are necessary. And if you are single, if you
are not married, or don't have any children, or don't
have that legal structure in place, that means the court's
(30:50):
going to identify someone who's going to act in your
behalf right, because someone's going to be appointed if you
are unable to. And the truth is, you don't want
that nger to be the one who's going to make
the rules. You don't want them to be whoever the
court identifies because they don't know you or care about
what your values are, but they're paid to be expedient
(31:11):
and efficient.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I think the other thing amy is that so many
young people are pessimistic, like you talked about right about
the future and feel like, oh, what am I even
going to protect? Right? Like what's even going to be happening?
What would you say to help manage any anxiety people
have around that the.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Most important thing that anybody has is a life right,
and so if we are thoughtful and careful, we want
to protect the life that we have. It's not about
the millions. The most important thing is your life, and
so we want to make the decisions about our life.
So I don't want people to take that for granted.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So what's the difference between a four one K and
an iri? Like how would we decide what we want
to do in terms of thinking about the insurance plan?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
So the FURL one K is a retirement plan that
is employer's sponsor, and ideally I tell everybody if your
employer is matching you, make sure you put as much
as you can and don't leave forty cents on the table.
If they're going to match, make sure you're getting all
of that return. IRA is an individual retirement plan that
(32:18):
you have funded, and there are two different kinds. There
is the pre tax and then there's the post tax,
which is the wroth IRA. And I'm not trying to
be that specific, but knowing this, when you have a
pretax IRA, that means the money comes before it has
been taxed by your FAIKA, your federal taxes. All of
(32:40):
that stuff is in the account, which brings your taxable
amount lower.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
But when you take the money out of that IRA,
that's when Uncle Sam is going to hit it, and
Uncle Sam will hit it, right, and it is often.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Appreciated, so there's more money in it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And so oftentimes people put their money in an IRA
pull it out expecting that when they're older and no
longer working, that it's at a lower tax rate, and
therefore that's why they want to defer the taxes until
later However, a rough IRA is money that I've put
in that's already been taxed.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
After I've received my paycheck.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I put money into my IRA, and therefore when I
pull it out, it does not.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Have to be taxed by Uncle Sam.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
It has already been taxed, and so that's a benefit
all by itself. But there are limits on how much
you can put in that pre tax dollars. So I
encourage people to be very thoughtful about taking advantage of
every opportunity. And one of the things that I say
as an estate planning attorney, I encourage folks that you
should all have attorneys and we should all have a
(33:45):
financial advisors because we should be very strategic, and the
younger you are start saving that money sooner because we
always talk about the time value of money is significant.
There is no better way to have your money grow
than through time.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Thank you for them. So you've talked about, you know,
working with churches and feeling like that's a really good place,
like well all the trust basically of the congregation. To
have this estate planning conversation, what are the things would
you suggest for the black community to get more comfortable
with the estate planning process and to really recognize the
importance of it.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So one of the things that bothers me a lot
is the fact that we lose so much land as
a people, that we've lost so much plann We complain.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
About the gentrification because we don't plan for it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
If I leave my house and it goes through probate
and I have three kids, there's only one way to
give a third of a house to a child, and
that's by selling the house. And what we know is,
especially in this area, when the appreciation is so great,
we're not going to be able to recoup that property
in many times, So I encourage us to be thinking
not just short term, but think long term. That property
(34:53):
is going to appreciate over time, and they're not making
any more land. So what we know is if we
can create and protect strategies for our wealth, building land
should be the foundation for it.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
We should be truly far sighted.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
We know that we're losing land through air properties because
so many times we have great grandparents who had a property,
but nobody wants to live on that land anymore, and
as a result, that land end up being sold for
taxes because nobody's caring for it, being thoughtful about it.
I encourage folks to take the time to realize that
you don't have to live there to make it value.
(35:30):
You just have to make sure that you care for
it and have that longer vision for it. I talk
a lot about the racial wealth gap, but that is
all tied into our land, our economy, and if we
as an individual, if my personal property I don't take
the steps to protect it when I pass away, that
(35:50):
value of the probate value of the house goes down,
and that impacts the comps on all.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Of my community and my neighbors.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So it is not just about me, but it's about
my family and my community by me taking the steps
that are necessary to protect those assets.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
For like that example, right with a land, let's say
somebody does have three children, and you're saying, like, don't
just give it to the oldest or whatever, like, think
about another way to kind of continue to protect the
land or what would be some alternatives to just giving
it to one of the children.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Thank you for asking that question.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
One of the things that we do, and I'm going
to say ninety five percent of the time I tell people,
do not put your kids name on the deed with you, right,
do not put your kids name on the deed with you,
because that will create a capital gains impact.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
The second thing that I would say is that being.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Thoughtful about and protecting that property with a trust right.
And so a trust is a probate avoidance vehicle, and
it's a private vehicle. That means that when I pass away,
my assets don't need to go through probate, but it
has to follow the rules. The trust is really just
a rule book that says what happens to my assets
when I am no longer here, how do I strategically
(37:02):
build it from generation to generation.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I get to make those rules.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
And so if I have a house, Let's say I
have three kids and one of the kids wants to
live in the house, they have to pay. Let's say
that they have to pay to live there, and it's
a percentage of the fair market rental value, and so
it goes back into the trust. Let's say there's no
mortgage on the house whatsoever, he has to pay so
that the property taxes are maintained, the homeowner's insurance are maintained,
(37:30):
as well as the maintenance is kept up on the house.
And there's resources to do that. If nobody wants to
live in the property, then we are able to rent
it out and then all three of the children get
a benefit from the income of that property. But I say, consistently,
do not give one hundred percent of what comes in out.
Let's keep a portion to continue to grow the principle
(37:52):
as well as what we are knowing that real property
is going to continue to need maintenance. So if we're
thoughtful about protecting that, we can do it and build
multi generational wealth. We preserve it for the venefit of
the children. We are making sure that it does not
impact or not impacted by a divorce of any of
the children, and therefore can be maintained as a benefit
(38:13):
for the children's.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Children following through the bloodline.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
All of those things that we can plan for by
strategically building the right rules.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So you can put it in your trust that this
house should never be sold and.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Never say never, never say always, right, because if there
is a great opportunity and it's gazillion benefits, But then
I say that what the resources should be used for
to buy other land? Right, and so we should never
be a landless people if we have the thoughtfulness to
do it.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Can you talk about maybe some of the other kind
of common mistakes that you see or things that you're like,
oh no, let's reconsider that. What are some things that
kind of come up in your sessions with clients.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
So a couple of things is that when we don't
plan for our business is too I mention that, ever
so briefly, that if people have a business that means
a business that has its own ein that is separate
and distinct from you as a person, like a limited
liability company or a corporation, that they should have a
strategy as well for what happens when someone passes away,
(39:14):
because we don't want that to go through probate either.
That's one of the common mistakes. The other mistake is
that when someone needs long term care planning that if
you need to go into a nursing home or need
to have services in your home and you want everyone
to support to have that, what there will say to
you right away is to spend down all your money.
(39:37):
I will tell you that you should be thoughtful about
how do we plan and protect that in many case
we can preserve some of those assets. If indeed you
have that conversation with an attorney. But you've got to
have the conversations, and that's when I encourage people to
be thoughtful about how do we want to protect it?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
What do we want to be thoughtful of in.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Thinking multi generationally, because it's not just while we're planning
for your kids and your kids' kids, and not just
your biological kids. I encourage folks to be thinking about
who are the people that we care about that may
or may not be our bloodline, because in many cases
we can be strategic about how do we protect and
promote our values and invest in the people that we love.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Amy is there any kind of directory that exists for
us to find a state planning people lawyers in our states?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
So I have created the Association of Black Estate Planning
Professionals because what we know is there is unfortunately not
a lot of us right. There's not a lot of us,
and so I want us to be able to be
connected to not just skin folk, but kinful right because
we know that that's not necessarily always the truth. And
the Association of Black State Planned Professionals identifies attorneys, financial advisors, accountants, realtors,
(40:52):
all of those folks who really have impact on economic empowerment.
Because we are committed to bridging the racial wealth. Also,
I'm a lifetime member of the National Bar Association that
has a real property and trust in the States section,
as a member of the National Black Lawyers Associations and
the Justice Connection. So there are those black organizations that
(41:14):
are committed to providing the connection to those folks who
care about us to achieve the community that we really
want to see.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Thank you so much for this, Amy, I really appreciate
all the information that you've shared. Where can people stay
connected with you and maybe participate in one of these
webinars that you've talked about. What is your website as
well as any social media channels you'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
We are Life and Legacy Counselors on Facebook and Instagram.
We are not on x We are in LinkedIn our website.
We have two URLs that will get you there. One
is your Estate Planning Attorney dot com. I think that's
the easier, but also Life and Legacy dot law. Almost
every week we have a webinar or a seminar, so
(41:59):
we encourage you to check us out.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Thank you for that, Amy. We will be sure to
include all of that in the show notes. Thank you
so much for spending some time with me today. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
I thank you so much for doing this because we
know that when we know better, we can do it.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I'm so glad Amy was able to join me for
this conversation. To learn more about her and her work,
visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash Session three ninety three, and don't forget to text
this episode to two of your girls right now and
tell them to check it out. If you're looking for
a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at
Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you
(42:40):
want to continue digging into this topic or just be
in community with other sisters, come on over and join
us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of
the Internet designed just for black women. You can join
us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This
episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Zaria Taylor, and Tyrie Rush.
Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so
(43:03):
much for joining me again this week. I look forward
to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take
good care
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation
about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions
we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed
psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find
(00:32):
a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy
for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening
to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant
to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed
mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining
(00:58):
me for session three ninety three of the Therapy for
Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi. I'm Amy Griffin, an attorney and founder of the
Association of Black State Planning Professionals. Join me for this
special January Jumpstar episode designed to support you in making
twenty twenty five your best year yet.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
If you've ever heard the term of state planning and
thought it was something only for the old wealthy, are
those of the children, think again. In today's January Jumpstart episode,
designed to help you make twenty twenty five one of
your best years yet. We'll be exploring how the process
of organizing your will, as well as encouraging family members
to do so, can be the key to unlocking a
(01:53):
legacy of generational wealth for yourself and your loved ones.
Joining me for this conversation is the founder of this
association of Black estate Planning Professionals, Attorney Amy Griffin. Amy
is the principal attorney of Life and Legacy Counselors, an
estate and business succession firm committed to creating, protecting, and
transferring wealth. She's committed to strategic community economic development for
(02:17):
Black people and serves as a corporate counselor, professor, and
community educator. During our conversation, we will break down the
steps of estate planning, highlight common mistakes to avoid during
the process, and explore how estate planning can serve as
a powerful too for addressing the racial wealth gap. If
something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share
(02:40):
with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in
Session or join us over in the Sister Circle to
talk more about the episode. You can join us at
community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Amy is my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, so can you tell me how you got into
the specific practice of family and estate planning.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
As you know, lawyers can't tell a quick story. So
the truth is that my parents were civil rights activists.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I grew up in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I had a good government job, and so when you
have parents who are a civil rights activist, you see
things through the lens of black and white. And so
I was again overseeing contracting and procurement for a state
agency and realize black folks didn't have access. And with me,
if I'm overseeing contractor and procurement and there is no access,
I know that there's a significant problem. So at forty
(03:41):
I quit my good government job. With two kids, I
was a divorced mom. Went to law school because you
can't win the game if you don't know the rules.
After graduation from law school, I created the newly Black
Chamber of Commerce. It's not just to get a good job,
but how do you make good jobs for the community.
And so I was working with business owners to create
(04:03):
jobs and opportunities. And one of the business owners with
whom I work gotten contracts as a result of the
work that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
He died. He died with nothing in place.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
And so what I learned it's not just what you make,
it's what you keep that impacts our community.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
So I went back to law school.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And got my Master of Laws and elder law and
estate plan so it can be about strategically supporting folks
to not just build wealth, but how do we create
it for multigenerational purposes.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Thank you so much for sharing that story. I think
when people think about estate planning, we typically think about
like life insurance and inheritance, but I know that there's
much more. So can you give us a more comprehensive
understanding of what we mean when we say estate planning.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's a comprehensive look at not just your assets, but
your values. And we named are from Life Legacy Counselors
as a result of that, because it is being thoughtful
about what is it you want to have happened? Estate
planning answers three questions. First and foremost, what happens when
you die? That's what people think about, freak out about
and say, Okay, I'm dead. It doesn't really matter. The
(05:09):
second question is what happens if you're unable to care
for yourself. If you're unable to care for yourself, you
want the right people to make the right decisions for you,
because in many cases we've had circumstances where people don't
speak to family members again because of the actions taken
during incapacity. Also as the expenses of incapacity, what does
(05:30):
that look like and how do we plan for it?
But mostly what I think about is state planning is
pulling in your life insurance, your philanthropic work, and all
that kind of stuff to decide what is the legacy
that you want to leave, Because if you have a
great life insurance policy and leave it to someone who
doesn't out to manage money, or someone who has suddence
abuse issues, or no matter what it is, if there
(05:51):
is a structure and support to create multi generational wealth,
it's just often sometimes it's not just a best blessing,
it's a detriment. I tell people are the time. I'm
a professional pessimist because I've seen what can go wrong.
We've seen those lottery wedding shows where those people at
the end of the show they have nothing. But what
we know is, and inheritance is a lot like a
(06:12):
lottery weddings.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
If you don't have a.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Structure and a plan and support system in place, or
the right people with the right knowledge base in.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Place, what's going to happen. It'll just be lost.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So, according to a twenty twenty two Consumer Report survey,
seventy seven percent of black adults don't have a will.
So I wonder if you could share a little bit
about the history of why this has been challenging, especially
in the black community.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, if we start off from the fact that so
often the laws have been used against black people, right,
so we don't necessarily know that we have as the
resource those things that we can do to make it
to our betterment as well as so often we have
we talk to estate planning folks who don't value what
we are, who we are, and what we have, right,
(06:57):
and if we look at the racial wealth gap, we
know that we have a small percentage of what the
white counterparts have. And so if you go to meet
with a professional who has the conversation and doesn't respect
or honor the work that you've built, it's not encouraging
or valuing, right. And so one of the things that
I've been mindful about is how do we one work
(07:18):
with anybody wherever they are to support them, to be
thoughtful about how do we build multigeneration.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, if you.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Start off with very little, it can become much more
with each generation. If there is indeed a plan, or
we don't even know, we think we don't have enough
to matter.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
It's insignificant. And sometimes we have shame that's.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Associated with that which we've gained at this point, and
we think that we should have so much more, and
therefore we don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I appreciate you sharing that, and I wonder if you
could talk a little bit about because I think just
as a society, we don't do well with conversations about death,
especially our own right. So what is like the mental
health piece of the difficulty of even having this conversation
about estate planning?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Oftentimes we focus on just right.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Estate planning is more about thriving, because if we just
are surviving from day to day, that doesn't give us
the vantage point of thinking about how do we build
and grow and plan and strategically move to thriving. If
we are focused on if I can just get through,
we're not going to think about what happens when we
get through. So there is of course all the superstitions
around if I talk about it is going to happen, right,
(08:24):
I tell people, if you don't talk about, it's still
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
And how do you see estate planning as something that
is a very important tool in generational will?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
What we know is that there are so many ways
in which the standard system is about taking your money right,
and most folks don't even understand.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
What probate is.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
And probate is the legal act of taking something that's
in your name out of your name if it doesn't
have a way to do it. And we don't understand,
you know, we hear about you know, what does a
will mean? We don't really know because we don't know
the conversation that it means that you've got to go
through the court system. And when you go through the
court system, we know that the court's are going to
(09:08):
get paid, right, and so we have to know the
strategies around how do we avoid and minimize the death taxes?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And there are death taxes that are truly taxes being
a state inheritance, but there are true death taxes that
are based on ignorance that if we can avoid probate,
we're safe and the money we don't have to pay
the court, and there are a lot of other things
we don't have to pay. We have to pay for bond,
but it's only if we are able to strategically maneuver
(09:37):
the process of transferring assets from a person who has
them built them and to the person they want them
to go to.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Can you share any examples of like generational wealth or
like legacy that you feel like you've helped to build
by helping someone with a state planning?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You used a great example with life insurance. So one
of the things that we encourage folks to do all
the time because even if you don't a lot of money,
if you haven't saved a lot of money, there are
things that you can do. For example, one of the
tools that we encourage people to do is when you
have a baby, be your child or your grandchild, to
get a whole life insurance policy owned by a trust
(10:16):
that is cash earning because it's cheapest when they're right
born right. Because what we know, life insurance pricing is
based upon your age as well as your health. When
you ran a new baby for six months. That's when
you are the youngest, right and then ideally the healthiest.
And so let's say you do that. That encourages us,
enables us to have the lowest amount cost but still
(10:40):
have the value. And as a result, they can withdraw
from some of that for college because it will continue
to be interest bearing and grow.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
You can draw from.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Some of that as a down payment on the house,
and then what we know is when that child passes away,
that money goes back into the trust for the next
generation of the ways. Another way is that when we
think about home ownership, what are the things that we
talk about all as a community all the time, is
that home ownership is they're not making any more land,
(11:10):
so our land will continue to appreciate what money evaporates.
So if we strategically plan for a house that we
have that if I have three kids in one house
to leave to my three kids, I don't want them
to sell it. If there are multiple kids, that it
can become income producing property and as a result it
can continue to appreciate. All of my children can benefit.
(11:33):
But we don't do a distribution of all of the assets.
We distribute a portion so that it can continue to
grow from generation to generation. The trust principle can continue
to grow if we are thoughtful about how do we
protect it. One of the things that I tell folks
who have multile kids, don't just say if I have
three kids, to divide it equally, because then what we
(11:56):
know is all of our kids aren't created equal when
it comes to financial management. And so if we're thoughtful
about how do we strategically allow them to as opposed
to divide and disseminate, that they do what I call
is create and collaborate create wealth, and that they can
build an enterprise for multi generational wealth.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
But it's got to be that strategic planning. Jointly.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
We know that we can be thoughtful about how do
we work together. We can be strategic about building wealth.
But it's got to be an intentional thing. It's not
going to be a default setting.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Jimmy, how are you working with some of your clients
around some of the things that you mentioned right, like
the shame that maybe I should have more or do
I even really have enough to leave? What kind of
culturally responsive approaches are you using to working with your clients.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
We spend a lot of time doing education, right, we
probably connect with eight hundred people a month, educating folks
across the country because of webinars seminars, and I've had
people that say, you know, I've had to hear this
a few times to talk about what does that look like?
Because there are many times where it is the downside
(13:04):
of just knowing what happens if you don't plan. Because
we do a lot of stuff for the people that
we love and that we care about. If we are
thoughtful about that, strategic about that, we'll take those next steps.
I also like to work with a lot of churches
and community organizations so that they can use the benefit
of their trusted relationship to understand that we need to
(13:26):
have those conversations.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Even though it's not so easy.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Can you tell us a little bit about what does
happen if we don't plan.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
If there's not a will, there is the state that
you live in, and every state is slightly different. That
gets to determine who gets what, when and how, And
so a lot of times people think, oh, my spouse
will get everything. No, your spouse will get a percentage
of everything in most cases if you don't have any
sort of a will, But a will again directs probate.
(13:56):
And so let me just walk you a little bit
through what this typical probate process that someone takes the
will if there is one and a petition to the
court that identifies the assets that the person had that
passed away when that person passes away, the value of
the assets that the court has based on the value
(14:17):
it is provided to the court for court fees. The
more you have, the more you paid to the court. Right,
So that's I feel like scam number one because if
you're affluent and you've saved a lot of stuff, save
a lot of money, then you've got to pay the
court more. Then the second thing that happens is that
the court will put a notice in the paper that
(14:38):
says Amy died, does she owe you any money? And
you have to wait Sears and Robot comes to say
that I owe money. American Express, any hospital bills come
forward to say, Amy owes me money and that should
be paid before my grand joken should be paid. If not,
only do we wait for them to tell us, then
we have to wait for them to guarantee that I
(14:59):
am indeed or that my loved ones have indeed made
those payments.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
So there's a significant.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Waiting period before anything can happen, because what happens when
you pass away those things, those bank accounts, etc. Are
frozen until you are able to get what we call
letters of administration because then you have no authority to act.
You can't even open the mail of someone who's passed
away until the court gives you that direction. Depending on
(15:24):
the state that you're living in, some states have inheritance
taxes depending on the relationships and some do not. So
like I'm sitting in Maryland right now, so if my
niece receives anything from me, there is a percentage that
has to be paid an inheritance tax, and it has
to be approved by the court before any distributions are made.
(15:45):
So again probate that this is a state administration is
called probate and takes many times two to three years
before completion.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
So we encourage people to avoid probate.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
One we don't want to have to pay the court
fees and many times the legal phase, our significant as
well as the executor or the personal representative gets paid
a portion as well as praise the lord the lawyers.
So I encourage people to be thoughtful by what is
it we want to keep for the benefit of the ones.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
That we love more from our conversation after the break,
But first a quick snippet of what's coming up next
week on TVG.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
I always say that beauty is a feeling, because, yes,
it's something you can see, but how does it make
you feel when you see that something that's beautiful or
someone that's beautiful? What does it leave on you? Does
it leave a good impression? Does it leave you inspired?
When we see beautiful garden, when we look at a
really gorgeous home, taking beauty out of the context of people,
we look at environments or anything that provokes you to
(16:43):
feel something emotionally, it is a feeling. So I always
talk about, yes, it's great to look great, it's great
to get adult hair cut, it's beautiful to have a
nice new outfit, But if it doesn't make you feel
better inside, then it's just a mass it's just a
band aid. It's temporary.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
So something that often comes up is that people are
trying to have conversations with maybe parents and grandparents about
the importance of the same planning. Can you give us
some conversation starters that we might be able to use
with the people in our family about how to talk
about this maybe sensitively.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
One of the things that I always tried to do
is living examples, right when Chadwick Boseman passed away, when
Aretha Franklin passed away, and Melva Hass there were all
those lawsuits and bringing up those examples. But I often
try to recommend to people to use themselves as an example,
because many times people will say to me that, oh,
(17:49):
my mom doesn't want to do it because she thinks
for trying to kill her off. Right, But if you've
had it yourself, if you've completed that plan for yourself,
you can use the examples in the experience, in the
conversation as a starter to say, this is what's going
on for me, or this is what happened when I've
done this. You make it not such a mystery because
we're often fearful about those things that we just don't know,
(18:11):
and also being very thoughtful. I always say to people,
it's one of those things that it's really important to
have relationship with people that you like. It's a hard conversation,
so don't just pick the first person that you see
in the yellow pages, where we don't have anymore. But
making sure that you reach out to someone with whom
you like. I always say that every law firm has
a personality, you know, core values. Make sure that you
(18:34):
identify someone with whom you find a connection, or else
it's not going to work because you're just going to
want to get through as of course, to really experience
because a lot of times people say to me, why
do I even need a lawyer? And I will say
to you, like Aretha Franklin didn't have a lawyer, but
she didn't do it right. As a result, her loved
one who has special needs was not taking care of
(18:57):
as well as she ends up paying a signal amount
of taxes that she would have not known that she
would have to pay. But only if we are able
to structure it appropriate. You don't know what you don't know,
and so I encourage people to have the benefit of
that professional to talk to and ask those hard questions.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So, Amy, how do we get started with this process?
And we are looking through Google like you recommended, right,
But what are we looking for at first? Are we
looking for a state planning attorney? And do they have
to be like in our state or can you work
with anybody in any state?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
No, you should work with a state planning attorney in
your state. Right, so that's first and foremost in your state.
But two, I say all the time that many times
we have a master of everyone. Right, I can I
get you out of jail if you ever broken back,
I can get you. But you know, we don't go
to doctors like that, so we shouldn't go to attorneys
(19:50):
like that. So there are many attorneys who are solopreneurs.
And you'll have an attorney who works all by him
or herself and has five are of expertise. That's not
typically the case, right, And so you can have those
two things that are interconnected. That makes sense. But if
you are at a state planning attorney, you shouldn't also
(20:12):
be doing criminal defense, right. Those two things don't really
align themselves. A lot of family lawyers and estate planners
are firm. We do business succession because that's really about
estate planning too, but it's state planning for a business
and being very thoughtful about that. But have the conversations.
I encourage people. We have webinars all the time and
most estate planners do. And then interview the attorney, get
(20:37):
to know what their values are and get to think
about what's important to them and make sure that's an alignment. Right,
And so we really want you to be comfortable enough
to ask the hard questions and to share your soul
about what keeps you up at night about leaving stuff
for your children or your grandchildren. Now, again we're a
big focus on multi generational wealth building, so we're very
(20:57):
thoughtful about not just your child, but your children's children.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Okay, so we've done our research, found the person that
we feel comfortable with, we've interviewed them. What is the
first step in this process of starting estate planning.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
We ask people to complete information about what's important, and
who's important and what exists. What's really important is also
that we have a plan for everything, all of your assets,
be it your digital assets, your financial assets, and your
sentimental assets. Right, because I don't want to leave a
dollar on the table. It used to be in the
(21:31):
newspaper that you can see unclaimed property notices. Sometimes people
don't really know what assets exist. Many times, if we
don't have a plan, we leave what I call a
scavenger hunt for our loved ones because they.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Don't know where the assets are or what the assets are.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Back in the day, we could sit in someone's house
for a quarter and all of the bank statements would
come through. Now we have everything online. There are banks
that aren't bricks and mortar anymore, So we got to
be able to identify what indeed exists. And then wanting
to make sure that we are caring for the people
that we care about, especially if you have minor children. Right,
(22:10):
if you have minor children, being thoughtful about what's going
to happen for them, who's going to be involved in
their lives, and how do we support them. We do
a thing called a child Development Plan for our minor children.
And again, as I said earlier in regards to Aretha Franklin,
if your loved one has special needs and receives governmental benefits,
(22:31):
you need to be thoughtful on how do we protect that,
because it doesn't take a lot to throw them off
of their benefits. And so we want to make sure
that we are protecting them and making sure that they
can have a quality of life that they want.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
So making that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Roadmap to the riches through the trusts or whatever the
estate plan looks like, and so how do we want
to plan for it, making sure that we've taken to consideration,
what are the strengths as well? As the areas of
weakness that our loved ones are challenged with that we
can create an action plan so that we can support
them that live the best life that they can have.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So when you said digital assets, Amy, are you talking
about like passwords, pictures? Like what are digital assets?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
All of the above now especially it used to be pictures,
Facebook pages, but now it's cryptocurrency. It's also your hotel
redeem points, your credit card rewards, all of those things
that we take for granted that we've spent a lot
of money to earn those things, so we need to
be able to manage them as well.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So you can give that to somebody else.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Absolutely, Remember it's not like it's a gift. They're earned.
Those things that are earned we get to be thoughtful about.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Okay, And you mentioned sentimental assets, so is that like
your wardrobe and those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
So, actually, if you can see behind me, you see
there's a picture of Thurgod Marshall and z Or in
Neil Hursty. That was a plaque that my mother received.
My mother is no longer living. There are heirlooms that
people really care about as well, and can us significant fights, right,
and so we encourage people to have a plan for
so many of those things, and we tell people greed
(24:08):
and grief are the two g's we have to guard
again because we don't really know what's going to happen,
but we know that they're going to feel some kind
of way. People that you love and so we get
to support them to make sure the heirlooms that they
have that means something to them get passed along.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So as a part of your planning, amy, is there
like a checklist that you have your clients go through
of like looking through everything in their house that they
may want to leave for someone after they're gone.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Most people say, oh, I don't have much, but the
reality is we all have a lot, whether or not
it's significant financial value, but what is valuable to someone
is based upon a lot of times the relationship that
you have. So we encourage people just walk through your house.
And sometimes it's easier to walk through with someone that
you love that notices things that you wouldn't notice because
(24:53):
we don't see what's there because we're used to seeing
it at so encouraging folks to take those steps to
take a picture of the room and sometimes those things
that we've taken for granted because they've been in our
family for.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So long we don't even see anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So encouraging folks to have a new, fresh eye look
as we walk through.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So in addition to figuring out what happens with the fts,
what other pieces are there of estate planning?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
How do we incentivize our young folks to have and
do and be what you've called them to. What we
know is that we want to make sure our loved
ones have the resources that they need to do whatever
they want to do, but not to have so many
resources that they don't do anything.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Many times we've had people.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Where just grief has just stuck them and they can
just not move because they have the resources that they
are not necessarily compelled to do anything, But then they
will sort of in essence waste the resources that are
available to them. Another thing that we encourage people to
do is if they have the value of philanthropy by giving,
and many many many Black folks do by either through
(25:58):
our houses of faith or just through our HBCUs or whatever.
There are many times when we give alanthropically. We encourage
people to incentivize that as well. They can do that
when they've passed away, but they can also encourage our
young folks to have that opportunity. I really want people
to be thoughtful about how do we teach children from
the time that they are young to have the mindset
(26:21):
of welcome And it may not seem like wealth because
they're starting out one spot. But I encourage folks in
many cases at the age of when the children are
teenagers or preteens to participate in the trust management so
that they can be thoughtful. And how do we coordinate
and strategically invest in the future for not just our kids,
(26:41):
but our kids' kids so they can be plannful of them.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
More from our conversation after the break And where does
the estate plan live? Amy, Like, I'm guessing the lawyer
has a copy. Is there somebody in the family who
is like entrusted with a copy? What's the process of
(27:05):
how the estate plan even like how do people even
know it exists?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So it depends, which is every lawyer's answer to every question.
But in Maryland and in some states but not the district,
the court can keep your will for safe keeping right
for five dollars in Maryland for a lifetime.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
You can keep the will at the register of wills.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
However, when I say one of the problems with probate
is that it is a public thing. Right anybody anywhere
can look at the will once you've passed away and
has published, and unfortunately it becomes a public process, and
many times vultures are looking at your assets and then
(27:47):
going after your heirs and your loved ones that they
see on the petition to go to seek them out
and to try to take advantage of their grief, and
unfortunately many times it happens. With that being said, I
encourage people to avoid probate, which is having a private
estate plan, which is oftentimes a trust. And so with
(28:07):
that being said, there is oftentimes a copy with the
attorney and the original is with the testator or the
person who has the estate plan, and I encourage people
to sometimes give a portion.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Now there are people think, oh, it's because we don't
want to give them.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
The whole thing is we don't want them to knock
them off in order to get the assets. But what
are the clauses that we often put in our estate
plans is that the slayer cannot benefit so that even
if they have this thought that if they've done something
to facilitate the end of life for our test stator,
they won't get anything as a result. That also reminds
me that we also have a pullboy in Bimbo clauses
(28:45):
for people who remarry after death. So we keep all
of those rules in place so that we can protect
multi generational if we have the plan, and that's why
we encourage people to have that strategic plan. You can
have a copy and you can form your executor or
your success or trustees where that plan is kept. And
it's often not safe or something to.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That effect, and is the successor typically like a family
member or like some other trusted person.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Or some other trusted person. It can be your family member,
but it depends.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Now.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
I always say, if Pooky is your oldest child and
the Pooky has never managed money and doesn't manage money regularly,
don't appoint that Pooky.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
A lot of times people say, oh, he'll step up
when I pass away when I need them to.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
No, they won't. No, they won't.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
So identify someone who manages money and has utmost integrity, right,
and then a backup to that person, because you don't
know who's going to be there when you need them
to be there as well as we want very specific
rules so that they can make sure that they're doing
exactly what you would want them to do, not what
they or their spouse would want them to do.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
So what kinds of things that you can encourage younger
people to think about, maybe even before they have a family,
in thinking about protecting their future, before they really feel
like they've created something. What kinds of conversations are things
should they be thinking about. Get in the mindset of
this thinking.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
What we know is again I'm a professional pessimist, right,
is that you should have your first estate plan at
the age of eighteen. And I tell people the story
all of the time. My baby girl was in college
and in a car accident in the hospital and I
was five hours away and did not have legal authority
to talk to the hospital. Praise the Lord, she's fine.
(30:29):
But at eighteen, we know that our children, although legally
of age, don't have the capacity or don't have the
wisdom in many cases, to manage all of those things
that are necessary. And if you are single, if you
are not married, or don't have any children, or don't
have that legal structure in place, that means the court's
(30:50):
going to identify someone who's going to act in your
behalf right, because someone's going to be appointed if you
are unable to. And the truth is, you don't want
that nger to be the one who's going to make
the rules. You don't want them to be whoever the
court identifies because they don't know you or care about
what your values are, but they're paid to be expedient
(31:11):
and efficient.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I think the other thing amy is that so many
young people are pessimistic, like you talked about right about
the future and feel like, oh, what am I even
going to protect? Right? Like what's even going to be happening?
What would you say to help manage any anxiety people
have around that the.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Most important thing that anybody has is a life right,
and so if we are thoughtful and careful, we want
to protect the life that we have. It's not about
the millions. The most important thing is your life, and
so we want to make the decisions about our life.
So I don't want people to take that for granted.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So what's the difference between a four one K and
an iri? Like how would we decide what we want
to do in terms of thinking about the insurance plan?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
So the FURL one K is a retirement plan that
is employer's sponsor, and ideally I tell everybody if your
employer is matching you, make sure you put as much
as you can and don't leave forty cents on the table.
If they're going to match, make sure you're getting all
of that return. IRA is an individual retirement plan that
(32:18):
you have funded, and there are two different kinds. There
is the pre tax and then there's the post tax,
which is the wroth IRA. And I'm not trying to
be that specific, but knowing this, when you have a
pretax IRA, that means the money comes before it has
been taxed by your FAIKA, your federal taxes. All of
(32:40):
that stuff is in the account, which brings your taxable
amount lower.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
But when you take the money out of that IRA,
that's when Uncle Sam is going to hit it, and
Uncle Sam will hit it, right, and it is often.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Appreciated, so there's more money in it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
And so oftentimes people put their money in an IRA
pull it out expecting that when they're older and no
longer working, that it's at a lower tax rate, and
therefore that's why they want to defer the taxes until
later However, a rough IRA is money that I've put
in that's already been taxed.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
After I've received my paycheck.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I put money into my IRA, and therefore when I
pull it out, it does not.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Have to be taxed by Uncle Sam.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
It has already been taxed, and so that's a benefit
all by itself. But there are limits on how much
you can put in that pre tax dollars. So I
encourage people to be very thoughtful about taking advantage of
every opportunity. And one of the things that I say
as an estate planning attorney, I encourage folks that you
should all have attorneys and we should all have a
(33:45):
financial advisors because we should be very strategic, and the
younger you are start saving that money sooner because we
always talk about the time value of money is significant.
There is no better way to have your money grow
than through time.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Thank you for them. So you've talked about, you know,
working with churches and feeling like that's a really good place,
like well all the trust basically of the congregation. To
have this estate planning conversation, what are the things would
you suggest for the black community to get more comfortable
with the estate planning process and to really recognize the
importance of it.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So one of the things that bothers me a lot
is the fact that we lose so much land as
a people, that we've lost so much plann We complain.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
About the gentrification because we don't plan for it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
If I leave my house and it goes through probate
and I have three kids, there's only one way to
give a third of a house to a child, and
that's by selling the house. And what we know is,
especially in this area, when the appreciation is so great,
we're not going to be able to recoup that property
in many times, So I encourage us to be thinking
not just short term, but think long term. That property
(34:53):
is going to appreciate over time, and they're not making
any more land. So what we know is if we
can create and protect strategies for our wealth, building land
should be the foundation for it.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
We should be truly far sighted.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
We know that we're losing land through air properties because
so many times we have great grandparents who had a property,
but nobody wants to live on that land anymore, and
as a result, that land end up being sold for
taxes because nobody's caring for it, being thoughtful about it.
I encourage folks to take the time to realize that
you don't have to live there to make it value.
(35:30):
You just have to make sure that you care for
it and have that longer vision for it. I talk
a lot about the racial wealth gap, but that is
all tied into our land, our economy, and if we
as an individual, if my personal property I don't take
the steps to protect it when I pass away, that
(35:50):
value of the probate value of the house goes down,
and that impacts the comps on all.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Of my community and my neighbors.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So it is not just about me, but it's about
my family and my community by me taking the steps
that are necessary to protect those assets.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
For like that example, right with a land, let's say
somebody does have three children, and you're saying, like, don't
just give it to the oldest or whatever, like, think
about another way to kind of continue to protect the
land or what would be some alternatives to just giving
it to one of the children.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Thank you for asking that question.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
One of the things that we do, and I'm going
to say ninety five percent of the time I tell people,
do not put your kids name on the deed with you, right,
do not put your kids name on the deed with you,
because that will create a capital gains impact.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
The second thing that I would say is that being.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Thoughtful about and protecting that property with a trust right.
And so a trust is a probate avoidance vehicle, and
it's a private vehicle. That means that when I pass away,
my assets don't need to go through probate, but it
has to follow the rules. The trust is really just
a rule book that says what happens to my assets
when I am no longer here, how do I strategically
(37:02):
build it from generation to generation.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
I get to make those rules.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
And so if I have a house, Let's say I
have three kids and one of the kids wants to
live in the house, they have to pay. Let's say
that they have to pay to live there, and it's
a percentage of the fair market rental value, and so
it goes back into the trust. Let's say there's no
mortgage on the house whatsoever, he has to pay so
that the property taxes are maintained, the homeowner's insurance are maintained,
(37:30):
as well as the maintenance is kept up on the house.
And there's resources to do that. If nobody wants to
live in the property, then we are able to rent
it out and then all three of the children get
a benefit from the income of that property. But I say, consistently,
do not give one hundred percent of what comes in out.
Let's keep a portion to continue to grow the principle
(37:52):
as well as what we are knowing that real property
is going to continue to need maintenance. So if we're
thoughtful about protecting that, we can do it and build
multi generational wealth. We preserve it for the venefit of
the children. We are making sure that it does not
impact or not impacted by a divorce of any of
the children, and therefore can be maintained as a benefit
(38:13):
for the children's.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Children following through the bloodline.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
All of those things that we can plan for by
strategically building the right rules.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So you can put it in your trust that this
house should never be sold and.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Never say never, never say always, right, because if there
is a great opportunity and it's gazillion benefits, But then
I say that what the resources should be used for
to buy other land? Right, and so we should never
be a landless people if we have the thoughtfulness to
do it.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Can you talk about maybe some of the other kind
of common mistakes that you see or things that you're like,
oh no, let's reconsider that. What are some things that
kind of come up in your sessions with clients.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
So a couple of things is that when we don't
plan for our business is too I mention that, ever
so briefly, that if people have a business that means
a business that has its own ein that is separate
and distinct from you as a person, like a limited
liability company or a corporation, that they should have a
strategy as well for what happens when someone passes away,
(39:14):
because we don't want that to go through probate either.
That's one of the common mistakes. The other mistake is
that when someone needs long term care planning that if
you need to go into a nursing home or need
to have services in your home and you want everyone
to support to have that, what there will say to
you right away is to spend down all your money.
(39:37):
I will tell you that you should be thoughtful about
how do we plan and protect that in many case
we can preserve some of those assets. If indeed you
have that conversation with an attorney. But you've got to
have the conversations, and that's when I encourage people to
be thoughtful about how do we want to protect it?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
What do we want to be thoughtful of in.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Thinking multi generationally, because it's not just while we're planning
for your kids and your kids' kids, and not just
your biological kids. I encourage folks to be thinking about
who are the people that we care about that may
or may not be our bloodline, because in many cases
we can be strategic about how do we protect and
promote our values and invest in the people that we love.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Amy is there any kind of directory that exists for
us to find a state planning people lawyers in our states?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
So I have created the Association of Black Estate Planning
Professionals because what we know is there is unfortunately not
a lot of us right. There's not a lot of us,
and so I want us to be able to be
connected to not just skin folk, but kinful right because
we know that that's not necessarily always the truth. And
the Association of Black State Planned Professionals identifies attorneys, financial advisors, accountants, realtors,
(40:52):
all of those folks who really have impact on economic empowerment.
Because we are committed to bridging the racial wealth. Also,
I'm a lifetime member of the National Bar Association that
has a real property and trust in the States section,
as a member of the National Black Lawyers Associations and
the Justice Connection. So there are those black organizations that
(41:14):
are committed to providing the connection to those folks who
care about us to achieve the community that we really
want to see.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Thank you so much for this, Amy, I really appreciate
all the information that you've shared. Where can people stay
connected with you and maybe participate in one of these
webinars that you've talked about. What is your website as
well as any social media channels you'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
We are Life and Legacy Counselors on Facebook and Instagram.
We are not on x We are in LinkedIn our website.
We have two URLs that will get you there. One
is your Estate Planning Attorney dot com. I think that's
the easier, but also Life and Legacy dot law. Almost
every week we have a webinar or a seminar, so
(41:59):
we encourage you to check us out.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Thank you for that, Amy. We will be sure to
include all of that in the show notes. Thank you
so much for spending some time with me today. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
I thank you so much for doing this because we
know that when we know better, we can do it.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I'm so glad Amy was able to join me for
this conversation. To learn more about her and her work,
visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash Session three ninety three, and don't forget to text
this episode to two of your girls right now and
tell them to check it out. If you're looking for
a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at
Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you
(42:40):
want to continue digging into this topic or just be
in community with other sisters, come on over and join
us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of
the Internet designed just for black women. You can join
us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This
episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Zaria Taylor, and Tyrie Rush.
Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank y'all so
(43:03):
much for joining me again this week. I look forward
to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take
good care
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