June 11, 2025 • 59 mins
A firefighter explains how “existential spite” has driven him throughout his life so far.
I’ve realized these descriptions don’t need to be that long. I am a gecko.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Hello? Is this sile Hi?
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi? Hello? What is your name?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
My name is Jack?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Jack?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
What up?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Jack? Here we are? It's what June? Oh shit, it's
June tenth. I've been five years since I've since I
first started dressing up as a gecko and talking to
people on the phone. I think maybe not exactly, but
it was June of twenty twenty that I started doing this,
So I didn't think that I would still that I
(00:32):
would still be doing this, which is cool that I
still am. And now I'm talking to you Jack.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well man, you know, on behalf of everybody. We all thanks,
thank you for like the stuff that you do.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Ah, Jack, what's up with you? Man? Tell me enough
of I don't want to say. I can't suck my
own dick today. What's going on with you? Jack? How's life?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well? I mean, you know, I can't complain. It's like
crazy times going on. I just went to Araby for
the first time, so interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
What how was your therapy experience?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, man, it was like, you know, an n take session.
So we just talked about like why I was there
in my life ship like that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, Well here's I'll I guess I'll say this is
you know, this is more of a I think a
ponder cast than a advice cast. I don't have any
advice for anything, but or maybe I do. I don't know.
But do you want to talk about the things that
you talked about in therapy on a public podcast or
(01:41):
would you rather talk about something else?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Man, we can talk about that if you want, dog,
you know, talk good to me.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
We talked. Hey, fuck you we can talk about if
you want.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
You know what, Fuck you, man, we can talk about
whatever you want. What do you want to?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Fuck you? Hey? Fuck you will talk about whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Fuck? All right, I guess you went all right?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Cool?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I mean I just graduated from a fucking fire academy.
Oh so yeah, I'm a fireman. And it's not like
a crazy year and a half dog Like I went
to went to the military, then I went to officer
school and and I I'm a firefighter EMT and all
(02:35):
that happened in like a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, Oh what was what was firefighter school?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Like a man, it's like it's like basic training but
like diet, you know, but it was just like a
lot of high intensity stuff that was the real challenge
and it's like, you know, I live in the South,
so it's like hot. You got like sixty pounds on
your back, you got like this gear on that insulates
(03:00):
from heat, and you're just like steaming in there. You're
crawling on the floor and you're like you can't see shit,
and you're just ragging shit and trying to find your
way out. So it's pretty fun. And then you know
there's also the fire.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Stuff, and uh, well, how old.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Are you, Jack, I'm twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Twenty seven, just graduated and now you're a firefighter. What
made you want to decide to be a firefighter? I
feel like, is that are most firefighters like around that age?
Or is that something you get into, like right out
of high school?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
They usually get around high school. I was like mostly
around people of that age, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, So I guess that's why I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Is that what made you want to decide to do that? Comparative? Well,
later in life, I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Trying to do the thing that you do, except like
actually do it, you know, I'm trying to be like
an actual therapist.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But uh, I don't know. It's like a lot of circumstance.
I came back after like army training and stuff, and
you know, my parents, you know, they're getting old, and
you know they're not They're not from this country, so
they have to deal with that topical issue, you know.
(04:21):
And I want to get my master's degree. So I
was like, well, if I work at Walmart, I'm gonna
blow my brains out. And you know, I want to
do something that's important to people. But at the same time,
I need time to like get experience so for my
master's application. So I just work for I just work
(04:44):
for two days and I'm off for four days. So
that's the kind of kind of gig that I wanted,
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Interesting. Okay, so you're a firefighter. Wait, which one the
firefighter job? Is the working for two days job?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Oh okay, you needed some side work to do while
you're pursuing your actual degree. Could that's so interesting that
being a firefighter is like a part time job. It
seems like, I guess enough part time hours. It's a
full time job with part time hours.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I mean it's forty eight hours, like straight up, straight up,
like it doesn't stop. It's forty eight hours. But once
you're done, you're four days off.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
So for two days you don't sleep at all.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
No, we sleep, but I mean we get woken up
by fucking alarms that tells us the like the emergency,
you just like go to sleep and then or with
throughout the day, any moment you hear due and then
like you hear this, lady just tell you what the
problem is, you go on a truck and then you
try to solve it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, so you're on call at the fire station for
forty eight hours straight, exactly exactly, okay, all right now
and now I get it. All right, So it's two
days a week where there's forty eight hours where you
cannot leave the fire station and you can sleep. But
if some shit goes down, you gotta wake up.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Exactly. Yeah, we have to. We have to respond to that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What do you guys do while there's not shit going down?
You just sit around?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I mean we do we sometimes it depends on the
shit we we have to do, like daily stuff to
maintain the station and equipment the truck. We got to
like train. If you don't practice this stuff, you know
you're gonna get like you can't perform. So then like
you know, that's people's lives. But then after all that shit, like, yeah,
(06:39):
I mean, you could be chilling, just like playing the
goddamn xbox do whatever the fuck you want. Some people
do with side hustles, like on the computer with their
free time. You know, a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So you're telling me, and next time I call nine
one one for like a fire I might be interrupting
somebody's crypto trading.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, homide, we're deep in doge.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Interesting. What kinds of people are the other firefighters? What's
their vibe?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Man, it's like a wide variety, wide variety of different people.
But like you know, a lot of them are like
a lot of them are just like you know, corn
corn bread eating. You know, they're pretty traditional American. Some
of them have like varying, varying educational stuff like I
(07:30):
have a bachelor's degree, and then a person in my
same shift he has a master's. Other people only have
a high school diploma, you know, just sorts of stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Have you Okay, so I know it took a year
and a half for you to be do the training,
but how long have you been at the job.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Oh dude, that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I'm just saying. It's like, take a year and a
half to do all the stuff that I did, like
the army stuff and the stuff. But I've only been
on the drop for like seven to eight.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Months, And how often have you like, uh, like, what
kind of shit has been going down in those seven
eight months? Like, are you going to fires every week? No?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It depends on the It depends on the fucking city.
Like if you're in a like a bigger metropolitan area,
those like fires every day. I lived in like a
smaller town, so it's mostly like medical calls. And honestly, dude,
like we get like a lot of like fucking uh
listesists and like you know people. I had one where
(08:35):
this lady was freaking out because she fucking she was
taking like some CBD gummies or some shit like PhD
gummies and then her fucking mom like gave her some
fucking like violence or some shit the fucking counterair or something,
but she was freaking out. I don't know why the
fuck you did that though?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
That sounds like a Tuesday for me.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, why was good?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, well, I mean taking a lot of vivants and
then I mean taking a bunch of like getting super
why would I mean, I guess that this woman was
not operating off of some kind of like medical theory.
But why would vivance help calm you down if you're
being if you're anxious for that?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Okade, I got I got no clue about that, though.
What did you just decide to do that? I just
try to do something about it and calming her down,
and we just waited for the paramedic to come. And
that's as much as we could do at that moment.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Okay, that's okay. Sorry I was interrupting you, But that's
what I was going to ask, is like, if I
call you and I'm like, yo, my homie's tweaking on
vivance and having a panic attack, what do you actually
what do you do?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well? Uh, well, we can't really do much because we
do have like no ock zone. We got a narcan.
We could do it with opioid stuff and like, you know,
if you have like a depressive episode, like we have
oxygen in order to like if you do like start hyperventilating,
we could chill you out with that. You can make
sure that you know you got the right oxygen on you.
(10:06):
I mean, but besides, like any like mechanical issue, if
it's like a psychological issue, all we could do is
just like be there for you to tell you to
calm down, homie.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, what does a depressive episode look like? Like
the type of amt.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
For Well, I'm telling you. I'm telling you, like, if
it's somehow like you have let's just say, like you
have asthma, you could do something like that. Like if
you're if something that's obstructing your airway, we could do
something about that. Like we could do a lot with
like airway airway stuff. But like if you're just tweaking out, homie,
(10:46):
like I mean, we just try your best, try our
best to chill you up.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Mm hmmm. How's the job been for you? Is that
like crazy and tough or do you like that schedule?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, dude, this is the only job, like the true
only job that I don't dread going to. It's probably
like people say, like most firefighters have something fucking wrong
with them because like a lot of them like relish
the job and it's like weird to like want want
(11:19):
to go into dangerous situations. Like a lot of the
people there that they sit down and then like you know,
they watch fucking they watch fucking Netflix and shit and
they're just like, man, I wish there was a car
accident right now, and I'm just like, I don't wish that,
but like other people do. You know, it's like kind
of weird.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here and say
that that doesn't make sense. You know. I think humans
we want to, you know, be doing shit. But why
But tell me why specifically you don't dread the job
and why you love it so much.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Uh well, it's one of the few jobs where you
can see the impact of what to do, like directly
in front of your eyes. You know, I used to
stock I used to work for like the postal service too.
I used to be a mailman, and you know, I
would fucking give somebody their fucking male and you know,
I give them the wave and all that, and uh,
(12:17):
you know I see them throw in the trash as
it was junk mail. He's just like, man, I guess that, Like,
what the fuck am I doing it for?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You know, I don't know why. I don't know why
I love that so much. I don't know why that's
so funny to me. God damn.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But as a firefighter, just just you're a mailman and
you're so proud of your job delivering the mail, and
you hand someone their mail and it's junk and they
throw it away. That's like, that's like, that's just such
a Charlie Brown esque scene.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Dude. I feel like Charlie Brown all the fucking time. Actually,
I feel like Charlie Brown a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Why do you feel like Charlie Brown a lot?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Because Charlie Brown tends to try his best, and whenever
he has like a moment of optimism, fate happens to
just push him down back to the state where he
was before. Yeah, he trudges along, you know. That's very Charlie.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Brown asked, mm hmm, what was the last thing you
had optimism for that fate?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Uh rejected, Ah, Man, Well, it's I don't want to
get political, but it's it's like, you know, the political landscape.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I guess, yeah, you can if you even get political,
if you want. Don't really give a shit.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, it's uh, it's uh uh, you know, my my
parents are like they're they're what you call, like, you know,
undocumented and all that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So that's pretty much sure.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's the crux of it all. You know this top
and you know the very topical topical moment, especially in
the state of California.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Sure, yeah, sure, I mean yeah, I mean, I yeah,
I understand that. But I guess I guess you can
still you trudge along anyway.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, it's just it's it's very discouraging, you know, when
you when you work for a country and like sixty
percent of it don't really care for your parents or
want them to go home or some stuff like that.
You know, it's a bit it's a bit disheartening. But
I try, I just you know, I just try my best.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
As you say, yeah, no, sure, sure, I mean what
as a firefart, you work for like a county, right,
a city? Yeah, a city, I'm gonna assume. I mean sure,
you know, yeah, if you want to get bigger about it,
you can look at it like that, but like what
about your your city or forget about that, I mean,
(15:16):
just the people whom you who you serve directly, do
you feel.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
That's why I try not to. That's why I try
not to bring that stuff into me with the job.
But when I go home, you know, that's you know,
that's what I see, frankly, But I don't. I don't work,
and that's what I think about, you know, when an
emergency happens, I don't think about how this guy is
fucking voted. I'm just like, this guy's in fucking trouble.
(15:43):
I need to help him out however I.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Can, right of course, of course. Hm, I'm still I'm
very I'm very curious on again, still on the thread
of you feeling like Charlie Brown all the time.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, but that's how I feel like Charlie Brown. It's like,
you know, I have two government jobs, and you know,
and it seems I am wary of the government, especially
in terms of how they view my family. And I
(16:27):
try my best to do my job, and I do
it well, but when I go home, I just, you know,
I get a little bit shaded about it because it's
it's really the crux of a lot of my problems
in my personal life is that. So I have this
(16:50):
optimism for working for my country in my city and
helping people and you know, doing my best, but at
the same time that gets shot down by all the
political happenings.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
You know, yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny. Okay, wait, now,
I don't want to get political, but I also kind
of do a.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Little bit well that's you get go man.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
You know what? Yes, you're right, Yes, you're right, it
is it is. What's your name? Jack?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yes? Jack?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Sorry, it's bad names. I've been on I've been thinking
a lot about like uh fucking and now I'm gonna
I'm gonna go on a philosophical rant. Oh god, well,
like because I think like, like, okay, like like loving
America or really like loving anything. I think inherent to
(17:50):
like loving something or belonging to something, like true patriotism
is is being viciously critical of that which you love
and belong to.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You know what I mean, Yeah, of course because you
love it.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Because you love it so I so so by being
a man who in such a pure way serves his
country and yet is critical of it and feel it
feels betrayed by it. I don't think you you, I
(18:32):
guess from that perspective, you don't live in a contradiction
at all. You live in you know. I mean, you're
a you're a you're a you're a patriot. You're doing
what you're I think should be doing. If you're a patriot.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Well, it's not just for you, know, I don't want
to be the stereotype. It's not just for country. You know,
there's I do it because it's a it's a thing
to do regardless of like you know, the whole country stuff.
And you know, I do love my country. It's just like, uh,
I mean, you know, if you if you believe life
(19:13):
is suffering, which I believe it is, and that everybody suffers,
you inherently have compassionate for your fellow man. So you're
you have you're prompted to want to quell that suffering
as much as you can. And you know, I know
I suffer.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So you know what's so funny is I I forgive
me listeners if I referenced this on an earlier podcast,
because I'm sure I have. It's one of my favorite
Onion articles. Do you know the one I'm talking about?
It goes existentialist firefighter delays three deaths, And it's so
(19:51):
funny because like, that's you. That's what you're doing every
time you're really you're going out there delaying deaths every day,
putting that's that's what it is, don't putting your death
closer to now to help delay the deaths of others.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Pretty much as it's pretty much how it is man.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
But so I'm trying to I'm trying to think here
again we can talk about you. Is this is wait?
Is this what you were talking about with your therapist?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You were just okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, this is what I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Tell tell me, tell me more if you want. I
got this like kind of conflict you're having internally.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's honestly, it's just, uh, sometimes I just get fucking
mad at society because you know, we we we we
deal with all this and it's like greater stuff like too,
like we deal with all this cate categorization, and and
(21:05):
we just put ourselves in these boxes and we hate
ourselves for reasons that don't even make sense, that are
just social constructs. But yet here we are in this
fucking clusterfuck of whatever the fuck is going on right
now that just makes everybody else suffer. And I and
that's what I'm in the middle of it, just like
(21:28):
like what do I do? You know?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What did your what did the therapist say?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, it was it was like the first session, so
that they're just like, well, well, we'll deal with this
the next session. But she said, she said, like she
understands where my anger is from. She she gets it.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Sure, but then again I didn't pay her, so yeah,
it's true if she didn't understand where your anger was
coming from.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean, is that that it's not that hard. I
don't think to understand where your anger is coming from. Wait,
hold on, I'm trying to see if I'm trying to
see if I understand where I think I understand where
your anger is coming from. I mean, yeah, you're in
a you're in a crisis about like, oh, I'm working
so hard to do all this and then it seems
(22:23):
like nobody really gives a fuck on like a global scale. Yes,
but I don't know, I can I just from from
my uh personal opinion perspective looking at uh, your life
is like your kind is like you're kind of doing
(22:44):
the best that you can. I think, what like one
of the subjects I think about a lot when I
just sit around and think or whatever, is like like
like the the onus of the individual versus the onus
of society and because it's like it's like, well, you
sit there and you want things to get better, and
(23:06):
you you know, if you really want to go crazy
mode and not going crazy whatever, if you really want
to you know, do a bunch of ship. Yeah, you
can pick some cause that you have and you can
protest and you can work on it, and you can
you know, vote, of course you can do all these things.
But there comes a point where you where like, uh,
(23:28):
I'm also I'm also big on like what is within
my control and what is not? And there's also a
it's like when it comes like societal issues, there becomes
a little bit of a point where you're like, when
is when is when do I when? When do I
throw up my hands? You know? When do I throw
up my hands and go? A lot of this is
out of my control and for you you are doing,
(23:53):
like to look around. I really hope I'm trying to
hone in on a point here is for you to
look around, and it's everything you see is on fire metaphorically,
and then you go and then you go, Okay, in
response to everything around me metaphorically being on fire, I'm
going to literally go and put out fires. And I
(24:17):
like that.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, and I like that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I like that about your life, Jack, That's cool. I
think that's really cool. I think that's a good thing.
I think that's a good response to fighting the metaphorical
fires is to fight real ones. I think that's a
good Uh, that's a good vibe.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
That's a good point, man, very good point.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Do you got do you? Is there an Xbox in
the fire station? Uh?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I mean sometimes people bring it. I mean I can
bring my own PlayStation. But yeah, what do.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You What do you got on the what do you
got on the PlayStation?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Ah? Man, people are gonna uh dude, I played fucking
overall Watching Dark Souls. Those are the fucking games that
I play.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay, why why why did you think that people would
be upset about that? Millions and millions of people play
those games.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I don't fucking know. I don't know. I just thoughted
up because it's just such a juxtaposition of two games
just seems weird.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Overwatching Dark Souls. Yeah, what is Uh? I don't really
know much about Dark Souls. I just know it's like,
I know, it's I know it's hard. That's what I
know about it.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, Like one, like Overwatching, like it's a very cutesy
game and all that, and then like fucking I played like,
well I'm born now going to the beginning of like
Dark Souls, like this gritty, like gothic, fucking fuck you
kind of a game.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Are the other are the other firefighters also like inexistential
crisises or like what do you think is going on
in their bro what do you think is going on brains?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Well, everybody has like you know and apparently like a
special human experience, So I don't really know what the
fuck's going on. But a lot of them are like,
you know, I think they just go home, have a
few beers, like fucking watch sports and just you know,
people like live with their families and just big chilling
(26:20):
until like the next time they got to come here.
But who knows what they have in their own personal life.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, how's how's your personal life gone?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
You know, it's you know, I did. I have been
fucking complaining for about like fucking thirty minutes. But like comparatively,
like I live a pretty good life, like I do,
Like I have a good as you know, I got
a fiance, I have a bachelor's degree. I have a
kick ass job. People say, like it's one of the
(26:54):
greatest jobs people can have. You know, I have the
benefits of military benefits and these benefits, I actually own
a home and my parents live in it and all that.
I mean, you know, prices are going up and fucking
I I'm broke as ship. But like comparatively to a
lot of people, I mean, I'm love. It's good, you know,
(27:18):
but sometimes when I yes, no, go ahead. But if
they you know, the point of contention here, it's just like, uh,
you know, I here's here. Let me tell you the truth.
I would give all the ship that I've ever done away,
like all the all this ship. I would give it
all away as my parents truly had had like it
(27:42):
had the shot to be citizens of these United States,
you know. So that's that's all. That's all they've ever
wanted ever since they got here. M I'd throw it
all with m hmm, I saw it all. M hm.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Where can I ask where they're from?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Uh? Therefore south as a border?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
What is the like actual I was reading a little
bit about this, like what what What is the actual
process of becoming a US citizen?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It depends on like and and now I'm talking about
a subject that I'm not an expert that so I mean,
if I'm saying something, if I've been wrong, you know,
excuse me. But under their circumstances where they came here,
you know, illegally, and all that in the traditional sense,
they have this penalty of ten years where they would
(28:39):
have to go back to their home country and then
they would have to wait that out and then particularly
apply it again. However, since you know, I am a
whe where I am a member of the United States Military,
I I've put two petitions to Homeland Security for a
(29:01):
parole in place, which means that they'll take off that
ten year penalty and for one year they cannot be
they cannot be deported. But it's in that system, and
it's gonna take like a year and a half and
it's only you know, I still have a year to wait.
So that's that. That's where I'm at. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Okay. So you as a military okay, sorry, hold on,
I'm trying to piece together your life. You you have
a government job as a firefighter and then a government
job in the military, okay, okay, And so as a
member of the military, you are eligible to like petition
(29:47):
for your parents to get citizenship.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yep, That's basically what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
And there's a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit that is keeping
that in the system for a year, so your parents
still are dealing with insecure status for like a year, yes, yes,
but then what happened and are we and after that
year is up, they.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Don't make a decision. They'll make a decision. You know,
not all positions are guaranteed. It's like case by case basis,
and who knows, Like if you know, the current administration
wants to change the certain those certain qualifications and can
make it either easier or more difficult. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Mm hmmmm what yeah? What are they? You said? It's
a case by case basis, Like do you do you
have any idea what they.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
It looks like, Uh, criminal background mostly and like you know,
like whether you're on welfare or not, the stuff you've done.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But I think, oh, sorry, Jack, your phone fucked up again?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Oh sorry, I said, whether you pay taxes? Criminal history, Uh,
the stuff you've done, whether you can do in any
other crimes stuff like that. M hm.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And how long how long have your parents been in
the States For.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
As long as I've been alive. I think it's probably
like thirty years now.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
God damn, that's crazy after that long, really, Like that's
crazy to me that like after that long it's still
I had.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
To sign a contract for them to get a shot
at it, and it is a shot.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That's crazy. So but if you aren't, if you aren't,
like if your son's not in the military, like, what
the fuck do you do?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I guess fucking get a million dollars and then fucking
do that?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What can you can you buy citizenship?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's what the current administration is talking about. I'm not
sure if it's a million or what. It's some sort
of exorbitant amount, but he's been talking about it. It's
like some sort of gold card or whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Huh yeah, do you have siblings? Yes, how are they doing?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Uh? Well, you know one of them is doing the
same situation as my parents, and then you know another
one's just like trying to start their own life.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
So wait, you have a sibling who was not born here, right?
And then do they and they have to deal with
the exact same shit that your parents do.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, it's even worse because I was talking to him.
I talked to an immigration lawyer to deal with all
this stuff, and he said if I wanted a petition
for him directly, it would take thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
What the fuck?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yep, So apparently one of my parents would need to
get naturalized first, and then he can get a shot
at it.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
When he says it will take thirteen years, does that
mean like he has to go back to where he
came from and then wait thirteen.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Years thirteen years in the United States?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Okay, so he'll spend thirteen years in the United States,
but he doesn't become it. But it requires thirteen years
to be a citizen.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Not a citizen, he would like get the same like petition,
like parole in place, like it'd be like that same thing,
and then he would get a shot at being a
naturalized citizen. It's not like it's not an automatic picket.
There's steps.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
But during those thirteen years, like motherfuckers, can't just think
it happen, anything can happen to him.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, damn.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And you said your other sibling is like not he's
that kind of doing their own thing.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, he's just doing their own thing.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Are you close with them? Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah hmm.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And what and your therapist didn't tell you anything.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I was talking to them about it, and they said
I was justified in my anger. And I was telling
them basically like how I'm motivated by existential spite about it.
And I was telling them like, you know, I don't
think this is a healthy mechanism to motivate myself. And
(34:44):
they were just basically like, uh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right,
there's healthier ways to do it. And then we're gonna talk.
We're gonna work that through. Basically, they said, like, you know,
it's just an intake, so they're gonna we're gonna work
through those negative.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
I've never heard that word before. Existential spite.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Can you explain what that means to you? Existential spites?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, I'll explain it. Given the situations that I've, like,
you know, been through, where like all this shit piles
on you, and you know, you're backed in a fucking corner,
and it seems like the fates themselves have vendetta towards
your life. Like it just seems that the only way
(35:38):
to move forward is to hate, Like the position you're in,
your very own hate. You should hate the fates, like
you should get revenge on the fates for doing this
to you by living a good life. That's how I
feel about it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Okay, a couple of things. What I I don't think
I have a strong I don't think I have a
strong understanding of what absurdism is but I think it's
something kind of like this. But also actually, what I
(36:23):
was going to say before you explained existential spite is
like I feel like, maybe sorry, maybe I'm being maybe
this is just like semantics or whatever, but like existentialism
or maybe this is nihilism. Uh, just the the idea
that they're even the idea, Okay, the idea that there
even are fates to spite, I feel like, is not
(36:51):
like do you believe in fates? Like do you believe
that there are like forces that exist like God, like.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I make I'm agnostic, so I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
So you believe there might be fates that exist that
are that hate you.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Sometimes it feels like that, Oh you know, it's a
ridiculous thing to think about, but sometimes it feels like that,
Like you know when you know when you want to
you want to hate something and there's nothing for you
to hate, so you just invent.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Something and you said it is and you said you
believe it's unhealthy, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
To be motivated by by fight because it makes you
hate everything.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Okay, that idea, I'm the idea. Basically I kind of
believe through operating like this in my life and through
kind of observing ship and talking to people in my
(38:02):
real life and on this podcast and stuff. It might
not be this binary, but like you can kind of act.
I think out of fear or love and through and
it's dynamic and people are dynamic and narratives are dynamic.
(38:24):
And yeah, all that, and I've personally lived probably lived
most of my If you took everything I've ever done
in my entire life, I would say a lot of
it is fear, for sure. Yeah, hold lot, I'm actually thinking.
(38:47):
I was you know what I was gonna. I was
gonna try to make a joke and I was going
to say something like wiping. I don't know if I
wiped my ass out of fear of love. But now
I'm gonna challenge myself to decide if I wipe my
ass out of fear of love. I think I wipe
my ass out of love. I think I wipe my
ass out of love because I love well the fun.
You could wipe your ass out of fear of love.
You could have You could be afraid that you have
a stinky asshole and there are the cancer that people
(39:11):
will judge you. You can you can be wiping your ass.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Because instead of like up and down.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you or you call
wipe your ass out of love because you love yourself
and so you want to clean an asshole. I should, Yes,
I I think I wipe my ass out of a
fear of discomfort when I'm like walking around and I
(39:40):
have shit in my ass. But you can also But
either way, you wipe your ass either way with a
motive behind. It didn't matter that much anyway, Okay, fear
and love and your life is typically I think gonna
be better the more you can operate from love and
(40:04):
not fear. Although again in my personal life, I feel
as though I have gotten to a lot of places
that I enjoy. I have gotten a lot of good
results via things that I did operating out of fear.
(40:28):
And I was pretty miserable. I'm pretty miserable anytime I'm
operating out of fear, I'm pretty fucking miserable. And when
I look back, part of me is like, and this
is something I can I can only come to looking back.
But when I look back, I'm like, oh, I probably
(40:51):
could have gotten similar results if I did the same
exact shit, but I operated from a place of love,
you know, because look you're gonna go to work and
you're gonna put out fires, and you're gonna try to
(41:12):
live your best life and you're gonna, you know, try
to be a good boyfriend or you know, exercise or
be a good son to your parents, or you're gonna
do all the ship anyway, like the the the action,
the actions are the actions themselves. They're like objective. So
(41:34):
if you're gonna do it, you might as well reframe
it and be doing it from a place of you know,
I love helping people, I love my parents, I love
myself all that, you know. Stupid ship. You know, I'm
(41:55):
trying to get I'm trying to get more on that train.
I'm realizing this, Yeah, because I because yeah, that's the thing.
Despite the doing thing, I always thought I've always thought
doing things that a spike was really fucking stupid. Like
uh like I'm uh like when you you ever, you
(42:15):
ever on Instagram and you see a thing where it's
like a guy with a cool watch and he's like
yeah and he's like and he's like he's like you
got and he's like you got a lot of people
to prove wrong. Today, I'm like, what a stupid, fucking
reason to do anything to prove someone wrong. You know,
it's so fucking stupid, really stupid reason to do anything.
(42:39):
But also love, I think, like you know, love can
take a lot of different forms, you know, like it's
not doesn't have to just necessarily be like positive. Yeah,
maybe I don't know. Existential spite you do, you feel
so you feel that way right now? You're living out
of spite. But you're trying to spite fate. But you
(43:02):
don't even believe in fate. So how so you're trying
to spite something that you don't even believe.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I spite in spite, in spite of your own circumstances.
Like you hate said, since you hate the position you
are in now, that motivates you to try to beat it.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
You know, yeah, yeah, yes, okay, sorry everyone, I have
to give some context real quick. Halfway okay, two seconds ago,
while we were recording the computer, my computer shout out
and it's still might shut out, who knows, But so
I I I had to, like I spent like an
(43:50):
hour fixing it, and then I called Jack back and
so now we we so in in the in a
split second that you that between whatever I was just saying,
before and now there has been in real time an hour.
(44:12):
But sorry, Jack, and this is weird. I'm gonna try
to get back into our conversation because what the thing, Okay,
the thing that got cut out that I wanted to
tell that I told you but that I wanted to record,
was that, yeah, I've personally, I would be lying, is
that I would be lying to you if I told
(44:33):
you that I haven't in my own like personal life
achieved certain like empirical outcomes via by being fueled by
like hating myself or like hating my life or whatever,
you know, Like i'd it would be wrong to say
(44:53):
that that's not an effective fuel, but that I also
I but that I also kind of believe that I'm
also I try, I try to be like optimistic. That
it's that that you that it is possible to achieve
like effective results that you want by not hating yourself
(45:17):
and operating out of some form of of love. You know,
it feels weird to get back into this conversation with
you after a full hour of losing momentum. But but
but I know you were talking a little bit about uh, yeah,
(45:38):
like going against like fate. You know, do you do
you do you do you so you feel like do
you feel like you're working in spite of fate?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, because like it feels like my life the cards
have always been stacked against me, given like my demographical makeup,
you know, like, you know, I'm a first generation American.
I'm the first person in my family who's like got
a college degree, been in the military, who's been a firefighter.
(46:18):
And it's you know, it's sometimes I feel like I
don't really belong in these places because I think of
like because like, let's just give you this instance. I
was working with somebody like during the summer, like in construction,
(46:38):
and they were like the same demographic that I was.
You know, we were both laborers, with the differences that
I was an American citizen than this guy. He came
from some you know, he came from some of my
Hispanic country. He didn't have like any citizenship or anything.
He couldn't speak English. We only spoke in like Spanish,
(46:59):
and that was that was the difference. So I I
talked to myself about, man, I could this could happen
to me? You know, I could be that guy, And
there's so many people like that around here in this country.
That that's what I mean by like things are like
stacked up against me, that it's like the fates. It's
that circumstance.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Mmm. I also wanted to ask, like, I guess with
that uh operation from existential spites like moving forward, what
do you what do you hope to accomplish out of that?
Out of that spite?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, that's why I'm like going to the to the
counselor if I went today. It's because I know, I know,
in my heart of hearts, like it's not you know,
it's not a healthy thing to do, but like I've
done so much with it, like like even like talking
about it right now, I guess you're like pumped up
because it's it's like it's like self defense mechanism. You know,
(48:02):
when when the card is stacked up against you and
you're trapped in that corner. You're trapped in that corner,
the only thing you want to do is fight, right,
and if you fight all the time, you just get
so like tired and defeated. And sometimes I feel.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Like that, you know, you know, maybe you know, actually
what you just said brings up kind of a thing
where I'm like, uh, because again I'm trying I try
to be optimistic that you can achieve good results via
like being fueled by I guess more like traditionally healthy things.
(48:36):
What you just said was interesting because it's like, well, okay,
maybe like I'll show them, I'll prove them wrong or
you know, I I I want to work in spite
of shit. Like it is an effective fuel when balanced,
you know, you know, like like like maybe it's an
effective fuel when two point and then after a certain
(49:01):
point become it's like maybe finding the balance. Maybe maybe
that fuel itself is fine, but it's like finding the
balance of how much how much to hit that gas pedal?
You know, maybe maybe maybe that's it.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Well, part of me is afraid of letting that part
of me go because it's been such a motivator, like
and it's fucked up to think about that, Like me
being like happy and healthier may make me less motivated.
Like that's that's the thing that scares me. Like what
if I can't go anymore? You know, I get complacent.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I I only have again, I only I only have
my own data to work off of. I will say
that like since I like for me, like like since
since I've been feeling better, I kind of care. I
care a lot less about, like certain success metrics, which
(50:01):
I think does lead to them going down. But I
found new metrics to care about, and those metrics are
going up, and like personal mental health and happiness becomes
its own metric, and then that goes up. You know,
but it is if but but you know, it is
(50:24):
hard to It is hard to tell. My strategy was that,
like UH, I would hate myself for a certain amount
of time until I got to a certain place, and
then once I was there, I would try to learn
how to not hate myself.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
But the thing is is that it never stops. Like
you always want you always want to There's always a new.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Thing, Yes, there is always of course, you know, there
is always gonna be a new thing. But I don't know,
I don't know. I was talking to him, Do you
have any I don't know how. I don't know how.
You don't strike me as an extremely online guy, But
(51:12):
do you do you know who doctor K is?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah, yeah. I was on his podcast like four years
ago and I was like, I don't know why, but
I was watching a little bit of it the other
day and in it, I'm talking about UH, and he's
kind of like a like he's a little he's like
a spiritual dude. And we were talking about like the
concept of like there, you know, like once I get there. Yeah,
(51:42):
And I was kind of saying like, I don't know
if there is a there, and he was like, yeah,
I don't think there is a there either, And if
I went back on there, I would be more skeptical.
I looa dude, I dude, it's all this is all
theory crafting. But I low key think I low key
think there might be a there. I don't have enough data,
(52:03):
but I low I low key think there might be
a there.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Like self actualization there or Nirvana there.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Uh no, not nothing like that, but like, uh like
for me, my my version of there was like like
for the for the past five years, at any given time,
if you asked me how I was doing, I would
probably say, like, I'm okay or whatever. But I would
only for like a little only only sparsely, would I
(52:34):
say I'm doing great and for the past and only
I'm dude, Jack, I'm like only as of less than
a month ago, maybe like three and a half weeks,
four weeks, could I if you asked me how I
was doing could I say I'm actually doing great and
(52:57):
for me fantastic, and I appreciate you saying that, and
for me, that's there. And I never felt that way before,
and now that I feel that way, I'm like, yo,
am I there? But then this morning I was like
feeling kind of like shit, and I was like okay,
but and then I was like, okay, there can't be there,
Like I can't. There's no fucking way. I'm like done
(53:18):
with adversity or anything forever. Like I think just like
all of that shit is kind of like you know,
depression or whatever the fuck is like inherent to the
human experience. But so I don't know, maybe there's no
a there. But I was at least for three weeks ago,
at least as a three weeks feeling like there is
(53:39):
a there. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm
just yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
What if there like actually exists? But like it's like
the same idea of like like Buddhists, like zen Buddhism,
like nirvana, like you can always have it, but you
you need to get it, but if you if you
search for it too hard, like it push it repels itself,
(54:07):
like you could have it, like like an oasis, like
a cloud moving across the sun or something like. You
can always have it, but if you search for it
too much, if you try too hard to get it,
if you like instead, if you just allow yourself to
be there, it'll be there. M hm.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Oh man, No, I know, I know what you're talking.
I've like, I've I've thought about that shit because I
know that that's the whole Buddhist thing of like desire
is suffering, so if you don't desire, you will not suffer.
But I always, I always felt that was so paradoxical,
you know.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yes, the way I took it, Yeah, the way I
took it is that it's like an ideal, you know,
that's the ideal of what you want to do. And
of course ideals, like ideals are perfect and we're not.
But if you can like train yourself to do that,
you can you can have like at least a little
bit of it.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Oh, yes, I like that. It's it's it's an ideal
to be striven for, not necessarily. It is an ideal
to be striven to go towards not necessarily, it's not
necessarily that Buddhism is saying, like Hey, this is a
state that exists, you know. Actually, Jack, actually Jack, sorry
(55:29):
Jackie there. Yeah, actually Jack, I don't know who was.
I don't know who was just calling you to tell
you that you gotta go. But actually I'm looking at
my computer right now and I've got like probably sixty
seconds before it craps out again. So I'm gonna dude,
I really I really appreciate. First of all, I really
appreciate you should wait call letting me call you back
(55:51):
after an hour to finish this conversation. Sorry, I know
that was kind of annoying, but again, I really appreciate
this whole conversation, man. And I hope I hope you
get whatever it is that you're going after. And man,
is there is there anything else you want to say
to the people of the computer before we go?
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Nah? I just do for you, man, Just just I hope.
I hope you stay there. I really do you. I
hope you there, and I'm trying to and I'm trying
to get there, you know, and to everybody is like
in a similar position like me. You know, just do
your best, you know. I I certainly empathize and feel
(56:29):
for you, but you know, just as as you said,
just try to do everything with love as best as
you can.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Thank you, Jack. I'll let you get back to whoever
is whoever is yelling.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
At you, all right, have a good night.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Get hey, Thank you Jack, take care man.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Thank you Yo.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
That was that guy was sick. Okay, hold on, I
want to record this post call thought, but my computer
is is about to he is about to get fucked.
But now, that conversation was awesome. I liked that conversation
so much that I called Jack back after an hour
so we could finish it. But I hope he's doing
all right. And I don't know if there's a there.
(57:16):
I don't have enough data. I've only felt I've only
felt mentally healthy for three weeks, so I don't know
if there's a there yet. But we'll see. We'll see
how long it goes. I'm optimistic. I think I think
there might be a there. I don't know. I don't
know anything. All right, my computer is about to die. Okay,
hold on, hello, folks, it's Lyle here. That's the end
(57:38):
of this episode. But get this, I'm releasing a bonus
episode this week. That's right, an entire extra hour of
the podcast that you can listen to by becoming a
Premium member of Therapy Gecko over at therapy Gecko dot
supercast dot com. Supercast subscribers get access to bonus episodes,
(58:00):
They get a completely ad free podcast feed of the
regular show, they get recordings from my live shows, members
only streams, and they help support my ability to continue
doing this podcast. So here's a clip from this week's
members only bonus episode, good luck watching a bunch more
Dogs Die. I hope that I was going to say,
(58:24):
I hope you enjoy it, but whatever. I hope that
I hope that it doesn't fuck you up too much.
But you but I assume that if you go to
be a veteran veterinarian, but maybe there's a part of
you that likes to watch dogs die because you go
into it knowing that you're going to do that a lot.
(58:46):
So I wanted to leave room to wish that upon you,
if that's what you wanted, If that makes any sense.
If you want to hear this full conversation, you can
sign up to become a premium member at therapy Gecko
dot supercast dot com, or find the link in the
episode description that's therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com. All right,
(59:11):
I have nothing else to say. Therapy goes on the line,
taking your phone calls every night. Therapy goes to his
side's teaching you aloud to the men.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
Of your life. Money's not ready, an expert
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Hello? Is this sile Hi?
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi? Hello? What is your name?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
My name is Jack?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Jack?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
What up?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Jack? Here we are? It's what June? Oh shit, it's
June tenth. I've been five years since I've since I
first started dressing up as a gecko and talking to
people on the phone. I think maybe not exactly, but
it was June of twenty twenty that I started doing this,
So I didn't think that I would still that I
(00:32):
would still be doing this, which is cool that I
still am. And now I'm talking to you Jack.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well man, you know, on behalf of everybody. We all thanks,
thank you for like the stuff that you do.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Ah, Jack, what's up with you? Man? Tell me enough
of I don't want to say. I can't suck my
own dick today. What's going on with you? Jack? How's life?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well? I mean, you know, I can't complain. It's like
crazy times going on. I just went to Araby for
the first time, so interesting.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
What how was your therapy experience?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, man, it was like, you know, an n take session.
So we just talked about like why I was there
in my life ship like that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, Well here's I'll I guess I'll say this is
you know, this is more of a I think a
ponder cast than a advice cast. I don't have any
advice for anything, but or maybe I do. I don't know.
But do you want to talk about the things that
you talked about in therapy on a public podcast or
(01:41):
would you rather talk about something else?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Man, we can talk about that if you want, dog,
you know, talk good to me.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
We talked. Hey, fuck you we can talk about if
you want.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
You know what, Fuck you, man, we can talk about
whatever you want. What do you want to?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Fuck you? Hey? Fuck you will talk about whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Fuck? All right, I guess you went all right?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Cool?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I mean I just graduated from a fucking fire academy.
Oh so yeah, I'm a fireman. And it's not like
a crazy year and a half dog Like I went
to went to the military, then I went to officer
school and and I I'm a firefighter EMT and all
(02:35):
that happened in like a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, Oh what was what was firefighter school?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Like a man, it's like it's like basic training but
like diet, you know, but it was just like a
lot of high intensity stuff that was the real challenge
and it's like, you know, I live in the South,
so it's like hot. You got like sixty pounds on
your back, you got like this gear on that insulates
(03:00):
from heat, and you're just like steaming in there. You're
crawling on the floor and you're like you can't see shit,
and you're just ragging shit and trying to find your
way out. So it's pretty fun. And then you know
there's also the fire.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Stuff, and uh, well, how old.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Are you, Jack, I'm twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Twenty seven, just graduated and now you're a firefighter. What
made you want to decide to be a firefighter? I
feel like, is that are most firefighters like around that age?
Or is that something you get into, like right out
of high school?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
They usually get around high school. I was like mostly
around people of that age, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, So I guess that's why I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Is that what made you want to decide to do that? Comparative? Well,
later in life, I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Trying to do the thing that you do, except like
actually do it, you know, I'm trying to be like
an actual therapist.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But uh, I don't know. It's like a lot of circumstance.
I came back after like army training and stuff, and
you know, my parents, you know, they're getting old, and
you know they're not They're not from this country, so
they have to deal with that topical issue, you know.
(04:21):
And I want to get my master's degree. So I
was like, well, if I work at Walmart, I'm gonna
blow my brains out. And you know, I want to
do something that's important to people. But at the same time,
I need time to like get experience so for my
master's application. So I just work for I just work
(04:44):
for two days and I'm off for four days. So
that's the kind of kind of gig that I wanted,
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Interesting. Okay, so you're a firefighter. Wait, which one the
firefighter job? Is the working for two days job?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Oh okay, you needed some side work to do while
you're pursuing your actual degree. Could that's so interesting that
being a firefighter is like a part time job. It
seems like, I guess enough part time hours. It's a
full time job with part time hours.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I mean it's forty eight hours, like straight up, straight up,
like it doesn't stop. It's forty eight hours. But once
you're done, you're four days off.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
So for two days you don't sleep at all.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
No, we sleep, but I mean we get woken up
by fucking alarms that tells us the like the emergency,
you just like go to sleep and then or with
throughout the day, any moment you hear due and then
like you hear this, lady just tell you what the
problem is, you go on a truck and then you
try to solve it.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, so you're on call at the fire station for
forty eight hours straight, exactly exactly, okay, all right now
and now I get it. All right, So it's two
days a week where there's forty eight hours where you
cannot leave the fire station and you can sleep. But
if some shit goes down, you gotta wake up.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Exactly. Yeah, we have to. We have to respond to that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
What do you guys do while there's not shit going down?
You just sit around?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I mean we do we sometimes it depends on the
shit we we have to do, like daily stuff to
maintain the station and equipment the truck. We got to
like train. If you don't practice this stuff, you know
you're gonna get like you can't perform. So then like
you know, that's people's lives. But then after all that shit, like, yeah,
(06:39):
I mean, you could be chilling, just like playing the
goddamn xbox do whatever the fuck you want. Some people
do with side hustles, like on the computer with their
free time. You know, a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So you're telling me, and next time I call nine
one one for like a fire I might be interrupting
somebody's crypto trading.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, homide, we're deep in doge.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Interesting. What kinds of people are the other firefighters? What's
their vibe?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Man, it's like a wide variety, wide variety of different people.
But like you know, a lot of them are like
a lot of them are just like you know, corn
corn bread eating. You know, they're pretty traditional American. Some
of them have like varying, varying educational stuff like I
(07:30):
have a bachelor's degree, and then a person in my
same shift he has a master's. Other people only have
a high school diploma, you know, just sorts of stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Have you Okay, so I know it took a year
and a half for you to be do the training,
but how long have you been at the job.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Oh dude, that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I'm just saying. It's like, take a year and a
half to do all the stuff that I did, like
the army stuff and the stuff. But I've only been
on the drop for like seven to eight.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Months, And how often have you like, uh, like, what
kind of shit has been going down in those seven
eight months? Like, are you going to fires every week? No?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It depends on the It depends on the fucking city.
Like if you're in a like a bigger metropolitan area,
those like fires every day. I lived in like a
smaller town, so it's mostly like medical calls. And honestly, dude,
like we get like a lot of like fucking uh
listesists and like you know people. I had one where
(08:35):
this lady was freaking out because she fucking she was
taking like some CBD gummies or some shit like PhD
gummies and then her fucking mom like gave her some
fucking like violence or some shit the fucking counterair or something,
but she was freaking out. I don't know why the
fuck you did that though?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
That sounds like a Tuesday for me.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, why was good?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, well, I mean taking a lot of vivants and
then I mean taking a bunch of like getting super
why would I mean, I guess that this woman was
not operating off of some kind of like medical theory.
But why would vivance help calm you down if you're
being if you're anxious for that?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Okade, I got I got no clue about that, though.
What did you just decide to do that? I just
try to do something about it and calming her down,
and we just waited for the paramedic to come. And
that's as much as we could do at that moment.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Okay, that's okay. Sorry I was interrupting you, But that's
what I was going to ask, is like, if I
call you and I'm like, yo, my homie's tweaking on
vivance and having a panic attack, what do you actually
what do you do?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well? Uh, well, we can't really do much because we
do have like no ock zone. We got a narcan.
We could do it with opioid stuff and like, you know,
if you have like a depressive episode, like we have
oxygen in order to like if you do like start hyperventilating,
we could chill you out with that. You can make
sure that you know you got the right oxygen on you.
(10:06):
I mean, but besides, like any like mechanical issue, if
it's like a psychological issue, all we could do is
just like be there for you to tell you to
calm down, homie.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, what does a depressive episode look like? Like
the type of amt.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
For Well, I'm telling you. I'm telling you, like, if
it's somehow like you have let's just say, like you
have asthma, you could do something like that. Like if
you're if something that's obstructing your airway, we could do
something about that. Like we could do a lot with
like airway airway stuff. But like if you're just tweaking out, homie,
(10:46):
like I mean, we just try your best, try our
best to chill you up.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Mm hmmm. How's the job been for you? Is that
like crazy and tough or do you like that schedule?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, dude, this is the only job, like the true
only job that I don't dread going to. It's probably
like people say, like most firefighters have something fucking wrong
with them because like a lot of them like relish
the job and it's like weird to like want want
(11:19):
to go into dangerous situations. Like a lot of the
people there that they sit down and then like you know,
they watch fucking they watch fucking Netflix and shit and
they're just like, man, I wish there was a car
accident right now, and I'm just like, I don't wish that,
but like other people do. You know, it's like kind
of weird.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here and say
that that doesn't make sense. You know. I think humans
we want to, you know, be doing shit. But why
But tell me why specifically you don't dread the job
and why you love it so much.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Uh well, it's one of the few jobs where you
can see the impact of what to do, like directly
in front of your eyes. You know, I used to
stock I used to work for like the postal service too.
I used to be a mailman, and you know, I
would fucking give somebody their fucking male and you know,
I give them the wave and all that, and uh,
(12:17):
you know I see them throw in the trash as
it was junk mail. He's just like, man, I guess that, Like,
what the fuck am I doing it for?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You know, I don't know why. I don't know why
I love that so much. I don't know why that's
so funny to me. God damn.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But as a firefighter, just just you're a mailman and
you're so proud of your job delivering the mail, and
you hand someone their mail and it's junk and they
throw it away. That's like, that's like, that's just such
a Charlie Brown esque scene.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Dude. I feel like Charlie Brown all the fucking time. Actually,
I feel like Charlie Brown a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Why do you feel like Charlie Brown a lot?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Because Charlie Brown tends to try his best, and whenever
he has like a moment of optimism, fate happens to
just push him down back to the state where he
was before. Yeah, he trudges along, you know. That's very Charlie.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Brown asked, mm hmm, what was the last thing you
had optimism for that fate?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Uh rejected, Ah, Man, Well, it's I don't want to
get political, but it's it's like, you know, the political landscape.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I guess, yeah, you can if you even get political,
if you want. Don't really give a shit.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, it's uh, it's uh uh, you know, my my
parents are like they're they're what you call, like, you know,
undocumented and all that.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So that's pretty much sure.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's the crux of it all. You know this top
and you know the very topical topical moment, especially in
the state of California.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Sure, yeah, sure, I mean yeah, I mean, I yeah,
I understand that. But I guess I guess you can
still you trudge along anyway.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, it's just it's it's very discouraging, you know, when
you when you work for a country and like sixty
percent of it don't really care for your parents or
want them to go home or some stuff like that.
You know, it's a bit it's a bit disheartening. But
I try, I just you know, I just try my best.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
As you say, yeah, no, sure, sure, I mean what
as a firefart, you work for like a county, right,
a city? Yeah, a city, I'm gonna assume. I mean sure,
you know, yeah, if you want to get bigger about it,
you can look at it like that, but like what
about your your city or forget about that, I mean,
(15:16):
just the people whom you who you serve directly, do
you feel.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
That's why I try not to. That's why I try
not to bring that stuff into me with the job.
But when I go home, you know, that's you know,
that's what I see, frankly, But I don't. I don't work,
and that's what I think about, you know, when an
emergency happens, I don't think about how this guy is
fucking voted. I'm just like, this guy's in fucking trouble.
(15:43):
I need to help him out however I.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Can, right of course, of course. Hm, I'm still I'm
very I'm very curious on again, still on the thread
of you feeling like Charlie Brown all the time.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, but that's how I feel like Charlie Brown. It's like,
you know, I have two government jobs, and you know,
and it seems I am wary of the government, especially
in terms of how they view my family. And I
(16:27):
try my best to do my job, and I do
it well, but when I go home, I just, you know,
I get a little bit shaded about it because it's
it's really the crux of a lot of my problems
in my personal life is that. So I have this
(16:50):
optimism for working for my country in my city and
helping people and you know, doing my best, but at
the same time that gets shot down by all the
political happenings.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
You know, yeah, yeah, you know, it's funny. Okay, wait, now,
I don't want to get political, but I also kind
of do a.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Little bit well that's you get go man.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
You know what? Yes, you're right, Yes, you're right, it
is it is. What's your name? Jack?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yes? Jack?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Sorry, it's bad names. I've been on I've been thinking
a lot about like uh fucking and now I'm gonna
I'm gonna go on a philosophical rant. Oh god, well,
like because I think like, like, okay, like like loving
America or really like loving anything. I think inherent to
(17:50):
like loving something or belonging to something, like true patriotism
is is being viciously critical of that which you love
and belong to.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You know what I mean, Yeah, of course because you
love it.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Because you love it so I so so by being
a man who in such a pure way serves his
country and yet is critical of it and feel it
feels betrayed by it. I don't think you you, I
(18:32):
guess from that perspective, you don't live in a contradiction
at all. You live in you know. I mean, you're
a you're a you're a you're a patriot. You're doing
what you're I think should be doing. If you're a patriot.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Well, it's not just for you, know, I don't want
to be the stereotype. It's not just for country. You know,
there's I do it because it's a it's a thing
to do regardless of like you know, the whole country stuff.
And you know, I do love my country. It's just like, uh,
I mean, you know, if you if you believe life
(19:13):
is suffering, which I believe it is, and that everybody suffers,
you inherently have compassionate for your fellow man. So you're
you have you're prompted to want to quell that suffering
as much as you can. And you know, I know
I suffer.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So you know what's so funny is I I forgive
me listeners if I referenced this on an earlier podcast,
because I'm sure I have. It's one of my favorite
Onion articles. Do you know the one I'm talking about?
It goes existentialist firefighter delays three deaths, And it's so
(19:51):
funny because like, that's you. That's what you're doing every
time you're really you're going out there delaying deaths every day,
putting that's that's what it is, don't putting your death
closer to now to help delay the deaths of others.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Pretty much as it's pretty much how it is man.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
But so I'm trying to I'm trying to think here
again we can talk about you. Is this is wait?
Is this what you were talking about with your therapist?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You were just okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, this is what I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Tell tell me, tell me more if you want. I
got this like kind of conflict you're having internally.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's honestly, it's just, uh, sometimes I just get fucking
mad at society because you know, we we we we
deal with all this and it's like greater stuff like too,
like we deal with all this cate categorization, and and
(21:05):
we just put ourselves in these boxes and we hate
ourselves for reasons that don't even make sense, that are
just social constructs. But yet here we are in this
fucking clusterfuck of whatever the fuck is going on right
now that just makes everybody else suffer. And I and
that's what I'm in the middle of it, just like
(21:28):
like what do I do? You know?
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What did your what did the therapist say?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, it was it was like the first session, so
that they're just like, well, well, we'll deal with this
the next session. But she said, she said, like she
understands where my anger is from. She she gets it.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Sure, but then again I didn't pay her, so yeah,
it's true if she didn't understand where your anger was
coming from.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean, is that that it's not that hard. I
don't think to understand where your anger is coming from. Wait,
hold on, I'm trying to see if I'm trying to
see if I understand where I think I understand where
your anger is coming from. I mean, yeah, you're in
a you're in a crisis about like, oh, I'm working
so hard to do all this and then it seems
(22:23):
like nobody really gives a fuck on like a global scale. Yes,
but I don't know, I can I just from from
my uh personal opinion perspective looking at uh, your life
is like your kind is like you're kind of doing
(22:44):
the best that you can. I think, what like one
of the subjects I think about a lot when I
just sit around and think or whatever, is like like
like the the onus of the individual versus the onus
of society and because it's like it's like, well, you
sit there and you want things to get better, and
(23:06):
you you know, if you really want to go crazy
mode and not going crazy whatever, if you really want
to you know, do a bunch of ship. Yeah, you
can pick some cause that you have and you can
protest and you can work on it, and you can
you know, vote, of course you can do all these things.
But there comes a point where you where like, uh,
(23:28):
I'm also I'm also big on like what is within
my control and what is not? And there's also a
it's like when it comes like societal issues, there becomes
a little bit of a point where you're like, when
is when is when do I when? When do I
throw up my hands? You know? When do I throw
up my hands and go? A lot of this is
out of my control and for you you are doing,
(23:53):
like to look around. I really hope I'm trying to
hone in on a point here is for you to
look around, and it's everything you see is on fire metaphorically,
and then you go and then you go, Okay, in
response to everything around me metaphorically being on fire, I'm
going to literally go and put out fires. And I
(24:17):
like that.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, and I like that.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I like that about your life, Jack, That's cool. I
think that's really cool. I think that's a good thing.
I think that's a good response to fighting the metaphorical
fires is to fight real ones. I think that's a
good Uh, that's a good vibe.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
That's a good point, man, very good point.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Do you got do you? Is there an Xbox in
the fire station? Uh?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I mean sometimes people bring it. I mean I can
bring my own PlayStation. But yeah, what do.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You What do you got on the what do you
got on the PlayStation?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Ah? Man, people are gonna uh dude, I played fucking
overall Watching Dark Souls. Those are the fucking games that
I play.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay, why why why did you think that people would
be upset about that? Millions and millions of people play
those games.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I don't fucking know. I don't know. I just thoughted
up because it's just such a juxtaposition of two games
just seems weird.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Overwatching Dark Souls. Yeah, what is Uh? I don't really
know much about Dark Souls. I just know it's like,
I know, it's I know it's hard. That's what I
know about it.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, Like one, like Overwatching, like it's a very cutesy
game and all that, and then like fucking I played like,
well I'm born now going to the beginning of like
Dark Souls, like this gritty, like gothic, fucking fuck you
kind of a game.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Are the other are the other firefighters also like inexistential
crisises or like what do you think is going on
in their bro what do you think is going on brains?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Well, everybody has like you know and apparently like a
special human experience, So I don't really know what the
fuck's going on. But a lot of them are like,
you know, I think they just go home, have a
few beers, like fucking watch sports and just you know,
people like live with their families and just big chilling
(26:20):
until like the next time they got to come here.
But who knows what they have in their own personal life.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, how's how's your personal life gone?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
You know, it's you know, I did. I have been
fucking complaining for about like fucking thirty minutes. But like comparatively,
like I live a pretty good life, like I do,
Like I have a good as you know, I got
a fiance, I have a bachelor's degree. I have a
kick ass job. People say, like it's one of the
(26:54):
greatest jobs people can have. You know, I have the
benefits of military benefits and these benefits, I actually own
a home and my parents live in it and all that.
I mean, you know, prices are going up and fucking
I I'm broke as ship. But like comparatively to a
lot of people, I mean, I'm love. It's good, you know,
(27:18):
but sometimes when I yes, no, go ahead. But if
they you know, the point of contention here, it's just like, uh,
you know, I here's here. Let me tell you the truth.
I would give all the ship that I've ever done away,
like all the all this ship. I would give it
all away as my parents truly had had like it
(27:42):
had the shot to be citizens of these United States,
you know. So that's that's all. That's all they've ever
wanted ever since they got here. M I'd throw it
all with m hmm, I saw it all. M hm.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Where can I ask where they're from?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Uh? Therefore south as a border?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
What is the like actual I was reading a little
bit about this, like what what What is the actual
process of becoming a US citizen?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It depends on like and and now I'm talking about
a subject that I'm not an expert that so I mean,
if I'm saying something, if I've been wrong, you know,
excuse me. But under their circumstances where they came here,
you know, illegally, and all that in the traditional sense,
they have this penalty of ten years where they would
(28:39):
have to go back to their home country and then
they would have to wait that out and then particularly
apply it again. However, since you know, I am a
whe where I am a member of the United States Military,
I I've put two petitions to Homeland Security for a
(29:01):
parole in place, which means that they'll take off that
ten year penalty and for one year they cannot be
they cannot be deported. But it's in that system, and
it's gonna take like a year and a half and
it's only you know, I still have a year to wait.
So that's that. That's where I'm at. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Okay. So you as a military okay, sorry, hold on,
I'm trying to piece together your life. You you have
a government job as a firefighter and then a government
job in the military, okay, okay, And so as a
member of the military, you are eligible to like petition
(29:47):
for your parents to get citizenship.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yep, That's basically what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
And there's a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit that is keeping
that in the system for a year, so your parents
still are dealing with insecure status for like a year, yes, yes,
but then what happened and are we and after that
year is up, they.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Don't make a decision. They'll make a decision. You know,
not all positions are guaranteed. It's like case by case basis,
and who knows, Like if you know, the current administration
wants to change the certain those certain qualifications and can
make it either easier or more difficult. You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Mm hmmmm what yeah? What are they? You said? It's
a case by case basis, Like do you do you
have any idea what they.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
It looks like, Uh, criminal background mostly and like you know,
like whether you're on welfare or not, the stuff you've done.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But I think, oh, sorry, Jack, your phone fucked up again?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Oh sorry, I said, whether you pay taxes? Criminal history, Uh,
the stuff you've done, whether you can do in any
other crimes stuff like that. M hm.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And how long how long have your parents been in
the States For.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
As long as I've been alive. I think it's probably
like thirty years now.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
God damn, that's crazy after that long, really, Like that's
crazy to me that like after that long it's still
I had.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
To sign a contract for them to get a shot
at it, and it is a shot.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That's crazy. So but if you aren't, if you aren't,
like if your son's not in the military, like, what
the fuck do you do?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I guess fucking get a million dollars and then fucking
do that?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What can you can you buy citizenship?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
That's what the current administration is talking about. I'm not
sure if it's a million or what. It's some sort
of exorbitant amount, but he's been talking about it. It's
like some sort of gold card or whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Huh yeah, do you have siblings? Yes, how are they doing?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Uh? Well, you know one of them is doing the
same situation as my parents, and then you know another
one's just like trying to start their own life.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
So wait, you have a sibling who was not born here, right?
And then do they and they have to deal with
the exact same shit that your parents do.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, it's even worse because I was talking to him.
I talked to an immigration lawyer to deal with all
this stuff, and he said if I wanted a petition
for him directly, it would take thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
What the fuck?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yep, So apparently one of my parents would need to
get naturalized first, and then he can get a shot
at it.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
When he says it will take thirteen years, does that
mean like he has to go back to where he
came from and then wait thirteen.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Years thirteen years in the United States?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Okay, so he'll spend thirteen years in the United States,
but he doesn't become it. But it requires thirteen years
to be a citizen.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Not a citizen, he would like get the same like petition,
like parole in place, like it'd be like that same thing,
and then he would get a shot at being a
naturalized citizen. It's not like it's not an automatic picket.
There's steps.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
But during those thirteen years, like motherfuckers, can't just think
it happen, anything can happen to him.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, damn.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And you said your other sibling is like not he's
that kind of doing their own thing.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, he's just doing their own thing.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Are you close with them? Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah hmm.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And what and your therapist didn't tell you anything.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I was talking to them about it, and they said
I was justified in my anger. And I was telling
them basically like how I'm motivated by existential spite about it.
And I was telling them like, you know, I don't
think this is a healthy mechanism to motivate myself. And
(34:44):
they were just basically like, uh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right,
there's healthier ways to do it. And then we're gonna talk.
We're gonna work that through. Basically, they said, like, you know,
it's just an intake, so they're gonna we're gonna work
through those negative.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
I've never heard that word before. Existential spite.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Can you explain what that means to you? Existential spites?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, I'll explain it. Given the situations that I've, like,
you know, been through, where like all this shit piles
on you, and you know, you're backed in a fucking corner,
and it seems like the fates themselves have vendetta towards
your life. Like it just seems that the only way
(35:38):
to move forward is to hate, Like the position you're in,
your very own hate. You should hate the fates, like
you should get revenge on the fates for doing this
to you by living a good life. That's how I
feel about it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Okay, a couple of things. What I I don't think
I have a strong I don't think I have a
strong understanding of what absurdism is but I think it's
something kind of like this. But also actually, what I
(36:23):
was going to say before you explained existential spite is
like I feel like, maybe sorry, maybe I'm being maybe
this is just like semantics or whatever, but like existentialism
or maybe this is nihilism. Uh, just the the idea
that they're even the idea, Okay, the idea that there
even are fates to spite, I feel like, is not
(36:51):
like do you believe in fates? Like do you believe
that there are like forces that exist like God, like.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I make I'm agnostic, so I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
So you believe there might be fates that exist that
are that hate you.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Sometimes it feels like that, Oh you know, it's a
ridiculous thing to think about, but sometimes it feels like that,
Like you know when you know when you want to
you want to hate something and there's nothing for you
to hate, so you just invent.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Something and you said it is and you said you
believe it's unhealthy, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
To be motivated by by fight because it makes you
hate everything.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Okay, that idea, I'm the idea. Basically I kind of
believe through operating like this in my life and through
kind of observing ship and talking to people in my
(38:02):
real life and on this podcast and stuff. It might
not be this binary, but like you can kind of act.
I think out of fear or love and through and
it's dynamic and people are dynamic and narratives are dynamic.
(38:24):
And yeah, all that, and I've personally lived probably lived
most of my If you took everything I've ever done
in my entire life, I would say a lot of
it is fear, for sure. Yeah, hold lot, I'm actually thinking.
(38:47):
I was you know what I was gonna. I was
gonna try to make a joke and I was going
to say something like wiping. I don't know if I
wiped my ass out of fear of love. But now
I'm gonna challenge myself to decide if I wipe my
ass out of fear of love. I think I wipe
my ass out of love. I think I wipe my
ass out of love because I love well the fun.
You could wipe your ass out of fear of love.
You could have You could be afraid that you have
a stinky asshole and there are the cancer that people
(39:11):
will judge you. You can you can be wiping your ass.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Because instead of like up and down.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you or you call
wipe your ass out of love because you love yourself
and so you want to clean an asshole. I should, Yes,
I I think I wipe my ass out of a
fear of discomfort when I'm like walking around and I
(39:40):
have shit in my ass. But you can also But
either way, you wipe your ass either way with a
motive behind. It didn't matter that much anyway, Okay, fear
and love and your life is typically I think gonna
be better the more you can operate from love and
(40:04):
not fear. Although again in my personal life, I feel
as though I have gotten to a lot of places
that I enjoy. I have gotten a lot of good
results via things that I did operating out of fear.
(40:28):
And I was pretty miserable. I'm pretty miserable anytime I'm
operating out of fear, I'm pretty fucking miserable. And when
I look back, part of me is like, and this
is something I can I can only come to looking back.
But when I look back, I'm like, oh, I probably
(40:51):
could have gotten similar results if I did the same
exact shit, but I operated from a place of love,
you know, because look you're gonna go to work and
you're gonna put out fires, and you're gonna try to
(41:12):
live your best life and you're gonna, you know, try
to be a good boyfriend or you know, exercise or
be a good son to your parents, or you're gonna
do all the ship anyway, like the the the action,
the actions are the actions themselves. They're like objective. So
(41:34):
if you're gonna do it, you might as well reframe
it and be doing it from a place of you know,
I love helping people, I love my parents, I love
myself all that, you know. Stupid ship. You know, I'm
(41:55):
trying to get I'm trying to get more on that train.
I'm realizing this, Yeah, because I because yeah, that's the thing.
Despite the doing thing, I always thought I've always thought
doing things that a spike was really fucking stupid. Like
uh like I'm uh like when you you ever, you
(42:15):
ever on Instagram and you see a thing where it's
like a guy with a cool watch and he's like
yeah and he's like and he's like he's like you
got and he's like you got a lot of people
to prove wrong. Today, I'm like, what a stupid, fucking
reason to do anything to prove someone wrong. You know,
it's so fucking stupid, really stupid reason to do anything.
(42:39):
But also love, I think, like you know, love can
take a lot of different forms, you know, like it's
not doesn't have to just necessarily be like positive. Yeah,
maybe I don't know. Existential spite you do, you feel
so you feel that way right now? You're living out
of spite. But you're trying to spite fate. But you
(43:02):
don't even believe in fate. So how so you're trying
to spite something that you don't even believe.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I spite in spite, in spite of your own circumstances.
Like you hate said, since you hate the position you
are in now, that motivates you to try to beat it.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
You know, yeah, yeah, yes, okay, sorry everyone, I have
to give some context real quick. Halfway okay, two seconds ago,
while we were recording the computer, my computer shout out
and it's still might shut out, who knows, But so
I I I had to, like I spent like an
(43:50):
hour fixing it, and then I called Jack back and
so now we we so in in the in a
split second that you that between whatever I was just saying,
before and now there has been in real time an hour.
(44:12):
But sorry, Jack, and this is weird. I'm gonna try
to get back into our conversation because what the thing, Okay,
the thing that got cut out that I wanted to
tell that I told you but that I wanted to record,
was that, yeah, I've personally, I would be lying, is
that I would be lying to you if I told
(44:33):
you that I haven't in my own like personal life
achieved certain like empirical outcomes via by being fueled by
like hating myself or like hating my life or whatever,
you know, Like i'd it would be wrong to say
(44:53):
that that's not an effective fuel, but that I also
I but that I also kind of believe that I'm
also I try, I try to be like optimistic. That
it's that that you that it is possible to achieve
like effective results that you want by not hating yourself
(45:17):
and operating out of some form of of love. You know,
it feels weird to get back into this conversation with
you after a full hour of losing momentum. But but
but I know you were talking a little bit about uh, yeah,
(45:38):
like going against like fate. You know, do you do
you do you do you so you feel like do
you feel like you're working in spite of fate?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, because like it feels like my life the cards
have always been stacked against me, given like my demographical makeup,
you know, like, you know, I'm a first generation American.
I'm the first person in my family who's like got
a college degree, been in the military, who's been a firefighter.
(46:18):
And it's you know, it's sometimes I feel like I
don't really belong in these places because I think of
like because like, let's just give you this instance. I
was working with somebody like during the summer, like in construction,
(46:38):
and they were like the same demographic that I was.
You know, we were both laborers, with the differences that
I was an American citizen than this guy. He came
from some you know, he came from some of my
Hispanic country. He didn't have like any citizenship or anything.
He couldn't speak English. We only spoke in like Spanish,
(46:59):
and that was that was the difference. So I I
talked to myself about, man, I could this could happen
to me? You know, I could be that guy, And
there's so many people like that around here in this country.
That that's what I mean by like things are like
stacked up against me, that it's like the fates. It's
that circumstance.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Mmm. I also wanted to ask, like, I guess with
that uh operation from existential spites like moving forward, what
do you what do you hope to accomplish out of that?
Out of that spite?
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, that's why I'm like going to the to the
counselor if I went today. It's because I know, I know,
in my heart of hearts, like it's not you know,
it's not a healthy thing to do, but like I've
done so much with it, like like even like talking
about it right now, I guess you're like pumped up
because it's it's like it's like self defense mechanism. You know,
(48:02):
when when the card is stacked up against you and
you're trapped in that corner. You're trapped in that corner,
the only thing you want to do is fight, right,
and if you fight all the time, you just get
so like tired and defeated. And sometimes I feel.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Like that, you know, you know, maybe you know, actually
what you just said brings up kind of a thing
where I'm like, uh, because again I'm trying I try
to be optimistic that you can achieve good results via
like being fueled by I guess more like traditionally healthy things.
(48:36):
What you just said was interesting because it's like, well, okay,
maybe like I'll show them, I'll prove them wrong or
you know, I I I want to work in spite
of shit. Like it is an effective fuel when balanced,
you know, you know, like like like maybe it's an
effective fuel when two point and then after a certain
(49:01):
point become it's like maybe finding the balance. Maybe maybe
that fuel itself is fine, but it's like finding the
balance of how much how much to hit that gas pedal?
You know, maybe maybe maybe that's it.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Well, part of me is afraid of letting that part
of me go because it's been such a motivator, like
and it's fucked up to think about that, Like me
being like happy and healthier may make me less motivated.
Like that's that's the thing that scares me. Like what
if I can't go anymore? You know, I get complacent.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
I I only have again, I only I only have
my own data to work off of. I will say
that like since I like for me, like like since
since I've been feeling better, I kind of care. I
care a lot less about, like certain success metrics, which
(50:01):
I think does lead to them going down. But I
found new metrics to care about, and those metrics are
going up, and like personal mental health and happiness becomes
its own metric, and then that goes up. You know,
but it is if but but you know, it is
(50:24):
hard to It is hard to tell. My strategy was that,
like UH, I would hate myself for a certain amount
of time until I got to a certain place, and
then once I was there, I would try to learn
how to not hate myself.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
But the thing is is that it never stops. Like
you always want you always want to There's always a new.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Thing, Yes, there is always of course, you know, there
is always gonna be a new thing. But I don't know,
I don't know. I was talking to him, Do you
have any I don't know how. I don't know how.
You don't strike me as an extremely online guy, But
(51:12):
do you do you know who doctor K is?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah, yeah. I was on his podcast like four years
ago and I was like, I don't know why, but
I was watching a little bit of it the other
day and in it, I'm talking about UH, and he's
kind of like a like he's a little he's like
a spiritual dude. And we were talking about like the
concept of like there, you know, like once I get there. Yeah,
(51:42):
And I was kind of saying like, I don't know
if there is a there, and he was like, yeah,
I don't think there is a there either, And if
I went back on there, I would be more skeptical.
I looa dude, I dude, it's all this is all
theory crafting. But I low key think I low key
think there might be a there. I don't have enough data,
(52:03):
but I low I low key think there might be
a there.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Like self actualization there or Nirvana there.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Uh no, not nothing like that, but like, uh like
for me, my my version of there was like like
for the for the past five years, at any given time,
if you asked me how I was doing, I would
probably say, like, I'm okay or whatever. But I would
only for like a little only only sparsely, would I
(52:34):
say I'm doing great and for the past and only
I'm dude, Jack, I'm like only as of less than
a month ago, maybe like three and a half weeks,
four weeks, could I if you asked me how I
was doing could I say I'm actually doing great and
(52:57):
for me fantastic, and I appreciate you saying that, and
for me, that's there. And I never felt that way before,
and now that I feel that way, I'm like, yo,
am I there? But then this morning I was like
feeling kind of like shit, and I was like okay,
but and then I was like, okay, there can't be there,
Like I can't. There's no fucking way. I'm like done
(53:18):
with adversity or anything forever. Like I think just like
all of that shit is kind of like you know,
depression or whatever the fuck is like inherent to the
human experience. But so I don't know, maybe there's no
a there. But I was at least for three weeks ago,
at least as a three weeks feeling like there is
(53:39):
a there. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm
just yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
What if there like actually exists? But like it's like
the same idea of like like Buddhists, like zen Buddhism,
like nirvana, like you can always have it, but you
you need to get it, but if you if you
search for it too hard, like it push it repels itself,
(54:07):
like you could have it, like like an oasis, like
a cloud moving across the sun or something like. You
can always have it, but if you search for it
too much, if you try too hard to get it,
if you like instead, if you just allow yourself to
be there, it'll be there. M hm.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Oh man, No, I know, I know what you're talking.
I've like, I've I've thought about that shit because I
know that that's the whole Buddhist thing of like desire
is suffering, so if you don't desire, you will not suffer.
But I always, I always felt that was so paradoxical,
you know.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yes, the way I took it, Yeah, the way I
took it is that it's like an ideal, you know,
that's the ideal of what you want to do. And
of course ideals, like ideals are perfect and we're not.
But if you can like train yourself to do that,
you can you can have like at least a little
bit of it.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Oh, yes, I like that. It's it's it's an ideal
to be striven for, not necessarily. It is an ideal
to be striven to go towards not necessarily, it's not
necessarily that Buddhism is saying, like Hey, this is a
state that exists, you know. Actually, Jack, actually Jack, sorry
(55:29):
Jackie there. Yeah, actually Jack, I don't know who was.
I don't know who was just calling you to tell
you that you gotta go. But actually I'm looking at
my computer right now and I've got like probably sixty
seconds before it craps out again. So I'm gonna dude,
I really I really appreciate. First of all, I really
appreciate you should wait call letting me call you back
(55:51):
after an hour to finish this conversation. Sorry, I know
that was kind of annoying, but again, I really appreciate
this whole conversation, man. And I hope I hope you
get whatever it is that you're going after. And man,
is there is there anything else you want to say
to the people of the computer before we go?
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Nah? I just do for you, man, Just just I hope.
I hope you stay there. I really do you. I
hope you there, and I'm trying to and I'm trying
to get there, you know, and to everybody is like
in a similar position like me. You know, just do
your best, you know. I I certainly empathize and feel
(56:29):
for you, but you know, just as as you said,
just try to do everything with love as best as
you can.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Thank you, Jack. I'll let you get back to whoever
is whoever is yelling.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
At you, all right, have a good night.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Get hey, Thank you Jack, take care man.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Thank you Yo.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
That was that guy was sick. Okay, hold on, I
want to record this post call thought, but my computer
is is about to he is about to get fucked.
But now, that conversation was awesome. I liked that conversation
so much that I called Jack back after an hour
so we could finish it. But I hope he's doing
all right. And I don't know if there's a there.
(57:16):
I don't have enough data. I've only felt I've only
felt mentally healthy for three weeks, so I don't know
if there's a there yet. But we'll see. We'll see
how long it goes. I'm optimistic. I think I think
there might be a there. I don't know. I don't
know anything. All right, my computer is about to die. Okay,
hold on, hello, folks, it's Lyle here. That's the end
(57:38):
of this episode. But get this, I'm releasing a bonus
episode this week. That's right, an entire extra hour of
the podcast that you can listen to by becoming a
Premium member of Therapy Gecko over at therapy Gecko dot
supercast dot com. Supercast subscribers get access to bonus episodes,
(58:00):
They get a completely ad free podcast feed of the
regular show, they get recordings from my live shows, members
only streams, and they help support my ability to continue
doing this podcast. So here's a clip from this week's
members only bonus episode, good luck watching a bunch more
Dogs Die. I hope that I was going to say,
(58:24):
I hope you enjoy it, but whatever. I hope that
I hope that it doesn't fuck you up too much.
But you but I assume that if you go to
be a veteran veterinarian, but maybe there's a part of
you that likes to watch dogs die because you go
into it knowing that you're going to do that a lot.
(58:46):
So I wanted to leave room to wish that upon you,
if that's what you wanted, If that makes any sense.
If you want to hear this full conversation, you can
sign up to become a premium member at therapy Gecko
dot supercast dot com, or find the link in the
episode description that's therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com. All right,
(59:11):
I have nothing else to say. Therapy goes on the line,
taking your phone calls every night. Therapy goes to his
side's teaching you aloud to the men.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
Of your life. Money's not ready, an expert
Host
Lyle Drescher
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