May 14, 2026 • 35 mins
Amanda is dating an amazing man named Eduardo. He treats her wonderfully, and their physical chemistry is undeniable, but there’s one major problem: he’s married with two kids. They sneak away on secret weekend getaways and even meet up in empty parking lots, but Amanda is starting to wonder how long this double life can really last. Eduardo keeps promising that he’ll leave his wife for her, but the question is no longer whether he will, it’s how long Amanda is willing to live in limbo while she waits.
In our second session, Savannah attends a work party and finds herself in an unexpectedly flirtatious conversation with her boss’s attractive husband, who seems to be giving her a little too much attention. When her boss overhears, the atmosphere at work shifts. Ever since, Savannah has been met with the cold shoulder, and it escalates when her boss gives her an incorrect project deadline, causing Savannah to turn in her work a full week late. Now Savannah is stuck wondering how to handle the fallout. Should she address the issue directly with her boss, involve HR, or let it go and hope things settle down on their own?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And he's a good man. But you know he's marrying
and I see this, I see the problem here.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Yeah, two kids, Amanda. What if I told you that
being in a relationship with you could very well be
making his unhappy marriage tolerable.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Woof o. It's therapy Thursday. Three friends gathered round to
give therapy because therapy is good for you, and therapy
can help you through situations.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I'm Ellan Kay, I'm Ryan Mano, and.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm Sarah ash So. Sarah is a licensed therapist. Sarah,
you've seen and heard pretty much everything.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I've heard quite a bit over the years.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
One of the most fun things that I love to
do with you, Sarah, is well, pick a restaurant, will
go have lunch. Usually if there's a lobster salad on
the menu, Sarah will order, and then we'll we'll talk
and and you never break patient confidentiality, of course, but
there are situations that we'll talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
There are because there are so many common themes that
run through life, and it's always interesting, never a dull moment.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Here's another question I've always wondered from therapists. Do you
ever stop sort of sizing people up? You know, when
you go through life, you just kind of like that.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
No, I get I could actually get asked that question
a lot, and I think there is sort of a
switch that turns off. Okay, you're not working, so I'm
not constantly analyzing. If somebody asked me a question, then
I can go back into that therapist role and kind
of become more analytic. But it's not something that happens all.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I think one of these podcasts you have to analyze, Ryan.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, we could do. We could do like a series.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah. And by the way, don't think you're off the
hook either, Ellen.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
No, I would love to. I would love analysis. I
would like to know who and what I am. You
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I would be really fun. I'd love to do.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Aren't we blind to We really are.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Many times we can be We're looking for a validation
of what we already think is true. Oh and so
we can often have tunnel vision.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
And do we surround ourselves ourselves with people who validate
what we think?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely all the time. That's why it's like
an echo chamber. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can create our
own echo. That's fascinating, and that's why it can be
really hard to open ourselves up to other perspectives.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I'm constantly in the pursuit of blissful happiness. Yeah, and
so if something takes me off that track, I think
I feel it more than the average bear she does
I do. I get like I can go into it
and just feel like why oh yeah, Like I get
so in my head if something negative comes along where
it could just be something that can be fixed.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And then you know what happens to you as one
of Ellen's confidants for a long long time over a decade,
I then don't want to downplay it because it means
so much to her, of course, but in my brain
I want to go, hey, it's no big deal. But
if I say that, then it's like, oh, you're not
hearing me.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Is it generally relationally like if you feel someone is
upset with you?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yes? Where Yes, yes totally. That's why I'm a people pleaser.
I do believe that. But also I didn't grow up
that way. I know this is about me. We're going
to get to Amanda in a minute, but I was
just thinking I'm the fifth out of six kids, and
I was always happy, go lucky and didn't bring drama
to the family. I was just always that kid and
(03:33):
that made me really happy. Plus I was a swimmer,
and so my endorphins are always going anyway. I would
like to get to a h Let's get to a medal,
all right, Amanda, welcome. You are on with Therapy Thursday
the podcast and licensed therapist Sarah Dash.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I'm good? How are you good? Amanda? So Sarah's here
for you. You've got a big concern. Does it feel
like a weight on your back?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It does like a huge weight carrying it around all
the time.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Tell Sarah what's going on?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
All right?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So I never thought it would be that woman, but
you know, the one waiting for the married man to
leave his wife. But here I am two years later,
and I'm still waiting for Eduardo h two years two
years okay to yeah yeah. And he said he's never
(04:31):
felt this kind of connection before. He tells me I'm
his peace and his best friend and you know, the
person who finally understands him. When we're together, it's it
feels real. You know. We talk every day and he
tells me what's the future with me? The pictures waking
up next to me for the rest of his life.
(04:52):
But then you know, reality sets in and uh like,
there's always a reason he can't leave. Okay, you know,
first it was financial, and then the kids are too young,
and then his wife was going through a hard time,
and now it's the housing market and the guilt and
the fear of hurting everybody.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Okay, Amanda, I'm hearing that. He says some very kind things,
some very loving things. But I want you to pay
attention to his behavior because behavior is the language that
we want to listen to. It's much more informative than words.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, all right, Well, I mean his behavior is he's
wonderful when we're together, and he makes time for me
in his life. But you know, he has two kids
and he's saying he can't imagine not seeing them every
single day. And I get that, I really do. I
wouldn't want to come between a father and his kids,
you know. But where does it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Leave me when when you're with him and he's saying
these nice things, Are you usually naked in bed? Is
it pre during or after sex? Because I think this
is a it is, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It's it's all the time. He's wonderful to me, he
really is.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You do regular things like, you know, go to the
movies or dinner or whatever. I know you're hiding the relationship,
but do you Are you able to have some normalcy?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
We are, you know, we have to hide it, so
we do like secret weekends and it's always a hidden
dinner or you know.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Okay, Amanda.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Have you ever heard in a parking lot? You know?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Oh god, okay, that's that's exciting. Have you ever by
the side of the room.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
It's exciting, you.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Know, right well, and being creative and you know, okay, Amanda.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Have you heard of something called intermittent reinforcement?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
No, okay.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
It's why gambling is addictive. It's because the reward comes
unpredictably and inconsistently, and that is a harm out hall
mark of an affair. That's what makes it so seductive, exciting, erotic.
Is you never know when it's going to be good.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Oh yeah, and so when.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It is good, it's amazing. It's bad, you remember when
it was good, and it keeps you hooked in because
you're waiting for that reward to come back around.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
He's a craps table.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Oh yeah, Wardo.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
He sounds swarthy to me. Is he like like you
would picture an EDWARDO like this handsome you know, what's like,
what's his what's his swagger?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I mean he's funny, smart, like we talk about who
challenges my like perspective on things? It's pretty great, Amanda.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Do you have low self esteem? I'm just curious, just
just in general, would you define yourself for a.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Discuse a person who has those self esteem? Know they
have those self esteem?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Okay, yeah, most people, I would think, I think they do. Yeah, okay,
what's your esteem? Like just your self talk?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
It's pretty good. I mean, like I have a good
view of myself. That's why I'm here. And I'm like,
I'm surprised that i'm this person, you know, because I
don't like to be put second. I don't think I
should put myself on hold for somebody else. But here
I am. You know, like, I know I'm worthy of
a good man, and he is a good man. But
(08:20):
you know he's married, and I see this. I see
the problem here.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
You know, kids, Amanda, what if I told you that
being in a relationship with you could very well be
making his unhappy marriage tolerable.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
WHOA, Oh, I don't know, I guess no.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Think about it. Like, yeah, think about it like this,
whatever's going on in the marriage, whatever in his by
his perception, certain needs aren't being met. You're meeting those needs. Therefore,
he really has no reason to leave that marriage. Your
availability is making the marriage tolerable. I want you to
(09:03):
keep that in mind. And he would actually be more
likely to leave his wife if you ended things. Oh
my god, that's how I see it.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, if she ends things, do you see him coming
back to her eventually or is that just going to
be the end there and he'll start something with someone
else fresh.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, it's possible because he has shown us, you know,
by your description, he's showing you how he deals with
problems in his marriage. He doesn't work out the problems
in the marriage. He seeks support outside the marriage. And
I would be concerned if this behavior would show up
with you. Should he actually leave his wife?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I mean, of course, I want to say it wouldn't,
but I mean that makes a lot of sense, you know,
I mean I don't want to believe that.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I have a girlfriend who is in a relationship with
a married man. He is set rated physically, same scenario,
two or three kids, and so they are always fighting,
getting back together, fighting, getting ba together. She even once
took a restraining order out on him because he was
so addicted to her and said, you're the love of
(10:16):
my life. And he was coming to wherever she was
she travels for work. He would fly to that city.
I mean it was like this.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Obsession that's kind of gross.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, and so she finally she's she's still dabbling, I
would say, but he can suck her back in so easily,
just with his words. Yeah, and the physicality she said.
She told me when she started getting intimate with him.
She said, it was like her whole body woke up.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Okay, consistency, consistency builds trust. Unpredictability can like create obsession.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Oh that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me.
Hey really quick, Amanda, what are your friends? Do your
friends know?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Okay, so he's.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
What do you think, Sarah?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Could he leave? Of course often times people don't. It's
impossible to know. It's another question would be can the
relationship survive if he's not married. It's part of him
being married. We've talked about this before. You know, the
transgressive arousal. You know something is very powerful because something's
(11:30):
powerful because it's forbidden. Without that taboo, it loses the
erotic factor.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
If you didn't have to sneak. Do you think he
would be this much of a snack?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, I think so, I mean, but then I'm like,
you know, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, look,
you know, he's like he should know by now if
if he wants me, and if he wants to be
with me and I want to be with him, I'm
willing to give a go. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Are you willing to leave?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah? I mean I've pulled him that before, and then
he looks me in the eyes and he's like, please,
don't give up on us. You know, behavior is language.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Remember what we said earlier. Behavior is the language you
want to listen to, not the pretty words. It's pillow talk.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I love. There's a quote I love. I've used this
a lot, and maybe you agree or disagree, Sarah, but
we encourage what we tolerate, and right now you are
encouraging him by tolerating this for two years you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, you have educated him, You've really educated him. He's
learned that he doesn't have to.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Leave, not at all. Why would he's getting what he
wants here, and he has what he has here, there's
a safe he's just.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
He's a world has not gotten busted? Like, how for
two years with this relationship? How has he not been caught?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I don't know, We don't. We're really careful, but we
almostly kind of just sometime tidy plain sight, you know,
like oh interesting?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Really will you show up at the restaurant where he
and his family are?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, but like we won't lie about he won't lie
about where he's going. He just you know, there's it's
we try to lie at least as possible to keep
from getting caught.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Have you ever come close to threatening to tell his
wife or to come out with it?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Right?
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Has it? Has something pissed you off so much that
you're like, you know what, F you, I'm gonna I'm
gonna tell her.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
No, I wouldn't do that because I I don't want
I mean, I I know how hurtful this is, but
I don't want anybody to get hurt, you know, like
I don't want to pause pain every time by doing this.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
The marriage, The marriage is being hurt. She is she
is actually she's actually being hurt, whether she knows it
or not, that that doesn't make it right.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I get that, but like I wouldn't go to her
and purpose her to get back at Ham or something.
I wouldn't do.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
What about the kids? Do you ever think of the kids?
Do you do the kids enter your mind?
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Do you know the kids?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I know them, Yeah, I don't like, I just I
just know I've met them, like, but not in this contact.
I just know them from the being around the family before.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
This would be an interesting This is what I would
ask him as a question if I could, just if
I was just like a fly on the wall, I
would be like, do you realize that you are doing
this to your children? Oh, you're doing it too, yes,
your marriage, but you're doing this to your two children.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
It's a betrayal of the family unit, not just the wife.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I agree with that, and so that might put things
in a harsh perspective, but that's really the truth. And
it just feels like you guys are so sexed up
with each other that that reality, like you said, reality,
I think you even said reality comes roaring in.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, it does, it does. I mean it's wonderful being
with him, and then reality sets in of all the
consequences all you know is he going to be with me?
Is he not going to be with me? What am
I waiting around for? I am wasting time? You know?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
What I know is that you're putting a lot of
energy and a lot of time into a relationship that
has not been reality tested.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right right? Yeah? I agree? I agree?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Have you ever dated while.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I'm alone with his family? Well?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
And that sucks to go to bed every night knowing that,
right that he where's he? Where's he sleeping? He's in
bed with his wife.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
If you knew that he was not going to leave
his wife for five years, would you stay?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I don't think so. No, not for five years?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
All right, because that's likely what's going to happen, because
I keep hearing excuse after excuse after excuse. There's no
plan in place?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Right, you should know by now if he wants to
be with me or no.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
You know, you should know now whether you want to
be with him.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Okay, yeah, I'm going to ask you one more question.
Did this when you guys began this was was he
already Did he come into this with you with a
as far as you know, a desire to no longer
be married to her?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Like?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Was the marriage kind of unraveling and then you showed
up or did you showing up unravel the marriage?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Oh that's a good, good question.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I think there were some problems, but nothing that couldn't,
you know, be fixed. I guess it wasn't like ending.
You know, it wasn't great, but it wasn't ending.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Did you how did you meet Eduardo?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I met him through work.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay, is he okay?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
We'll leave it there.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, thank you, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Okay, what are you going to do? What are you
going to do? Man, if you if you had to
make a decision today, a decision you could not go
back on.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
My heart spells me to stay, and my gut tells
me to go, and if he really wants me, then
he will leave his life and come get me. And
like you said, okay, try to think.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Try to think about what you want, not what you
hope he's going to write.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
What do I want him? But I want a life.
I don't want to be the side piece forever on
the side.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Of the road.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Right, As exciting as that may be.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Sarah likes it, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, yeah, look, having the experience of my friend who
has been in this same movie, you will stay as
long as humanly possible, and that this way, and I
believe that this is why my friend is still in
You don't have to think about other people and date
other guys because you know what you're getting with the
(18:09):
married man.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
It's true. I would encourage you to think about what
being with an unavailable partner actually serves you. How does
that serve you? I should say, And that's that's a
bigger question, and that's a longer, you know, discussion, but
it is something to consider. It's like, how does this
work for you rather than against you? Because maybe that'll
(18:31):
give you some insight as to why you continue to
tolerate this uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, it's almost like it's safer, you know, because I
know what I'm getting. I know what the boundaries are.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, just think of what you could be missing out on.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Right, it's risky out there, but.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It could be wonderful.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I think it's risky in there.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Yeah, it's risky on the.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It's risky on the side of the roads, no matter
how exciting.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Oh my gosh, Okay, Well, so Amanda, have I mean, like,
do you feel like you've made any progress on this podcast?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I do.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I really do. Like You've given me a lot to
think about in a lot of insight, and I don't
have to make a decision what's best for me and
not for him.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Sarah.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
You probably, I know you've seen this probably multiple times.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, many times. What's the key, the key to getting
out of it or the key to finding her?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Hat? I guess Yeah, I guess he's not getting out
of it. That's what we've determined. Right.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
This is great for him, think about it. This is great. Yeah,
this situation works beautifully for him.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
That reminds me so the guy with my friend, the
married guy. You know what he said, I have such
I have love at home and I've got love with you.
Have so much love in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yes, Okay, a.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Corner co of abundance of life taking and.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Both women are allowing it. I'm sure the wife they're
separated physically. I'm sure the wife knows well. He's out
there doing stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, he's got the best of both worlds.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
It's great for him.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It's maddening, it is.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Wow, Amanda, you are actually making it easy for him
to stay married. I know it doesn't feel like that
you're making this easy.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Trust Sarah, she's seen this so many times.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
You know, I'm looking at your name, Amanda, and I'm
just it's it's coming to me right now. He's a man.
All right, good luck out there?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, all right, well please let us know.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I will thank you. Bye, Amanda, Sorry bye.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
What do we think now that she's off the line. Yeah, yeah, no,
you're good. What do we think just with her? Not yet?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think she really doesn't want to leave. I think
she does believe that he is her true love, and
I don't think she can possibly know whether he is
a true love because the relationship has not been reality tested.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Is there a chance that he is, though? Is there
a chance that he's actually like, holy shit, I love
her absolutely?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, there's a chance. I don't want to discount that as.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
In the movie. Sometimes yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
It can happen in real life. But okay, I was
talking about the intermittent reinforcement and the gambling. Yeah, every
once in a while you could hit a jackpart.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Have you had clients that have hit the jackpot with
an affair.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I'd have to think long and hard to find one.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, okay, so it's that a frequency. No. Now we
got Savannah who wrote to us so you can get
a hold of us multiple ways. Hit us up on
the top button on iHeart. You can also write to us,
call us whatever it is. This is a Savannah, she says.
(22:07):
I report your female boss, who happens to have a
very handsome, confident husband. He's like Don Draper mixed with
Richard Gear Silver Fox kind of stuff. At our company
anniversary party a few months ago, her husband was really
friendly and chatty with me, and I was just being
polite by engaging in the innocent, slightly flirty conversation. I'm single.
(22:30):
I don't like bringing a plus one to company functions,
but this was the first one he attended, and he
was giving me lots of attention. He was laughing and
telling me funny stories about tennis with his buddies, and
then he told me I look great, and the wife
heard him say it. All right, So now, and now
(22:50):
everything has gone cold at work, she said. That's the
very moment things between she and I turned icy cold.
Cold shoulder Shorty responses the whole thing last week. Turned
in an important report to senior leadership a full week late.
She's the one who verbally gave me the deadline. Okay,
so there's sabotage here, setting her up, setting her up.
(23:12):
Do I bring it up? We both know what's happening.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Savannah, Okay, I have an idea about what I think
about this, but I'm going to ask the two of
you first. Does she bring it up or not?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Of course she brings it up, she puts it right
out there on the table.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
I also would say, yes, you have to confront.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It, and I would say absolutely not. You're now and
I'll tell you why. Do I really want to tell
you why?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yeah, no, I want to know.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I want to tell you why. It's it's let this go,
Let this go. Take a step back, slightly more boundaried.
Document everything. Somebody says reports to Friday. Send a text
or an email just to confirm reports you Friday, create
a paper trail. You want to document things, but don't.
(24:02):
This is not a conversation. It's going to be helpful.
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
What do you think would happen if there were a conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I think you're going to create a situation that's even
more awkward and tense. You're going to bring it to
the forefront, and usually I would I am very much
about direct communication and transparency, but in this situation, I
really believe it's unwise. Okay, what the best settle?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
But it's clear that this boss is already now on
somewhat of a war path, you know. So what's your
advice to think.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
She thinks the boss is on the war path?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Don't want to presume that something is an action that
you can't be certain of, especially when you're dealing with
the boss.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
That's fascinating. I think that that's really healthy advice right there.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I mean, we do project things, Yeah, we do. Maybe
she did miss hear something, and I'm not doubting her reality.
I don't think she's being dishonest, but maybe she feels
uncomfortable about something that happened, and so she's perceiving that
the boss is doing these things when in fact she
may not be. That's why you don't want to bring
(25:13):
up something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Okay, So is it then possible that maybe even the
husband wasn't flirting with her? Right? Like? Did she misread that? Even?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Good question? It's interesting because she describes him in terms
that makes me think she was quite attractive.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Attracted him one hundred percent. Try a silver fox kind
of stuff. Don draper mixed with Richard gear and then
she puts, he was giving me lots of attention. It's
all caps, lots of attention.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
But Ellen, that could have just been her perception.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
She was I'm telling you as a woman, she liked it.
I think she liked the attention.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think I think it felt good. And don't flirt
with other women's husbands, especially if they are your boss.
That is a very unwise decision.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
It sounds like she lingered. She could have said excuse me,
She could have made up anything to get away from him,
and then he has to go and say you look great,
and the boss wife hears him say, guys.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
We don't know the context of that conversation. She may
have said, oh, yeah, I'm down thirty six pounds. I've
been doing you know, pilates, right, and he goes, oh
you look great.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah right, yeah, very innocent, very true. Yeah. But the
way that this wife reacted, I feel like maybe there
could be cheating history with this couple, and maybe the
wife has her radar on. They're at a work event.
It's the first one he's attended. Here's Savannah, she has
no plus one, and she sees some giggling and laughing
(26:42):
and engagement. So with her background with this guy, she's like,
oh my god, he's strayed before I got to get
over there. And then there he is giving her the evidence.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And that is a great point because maybe she is
actually very angry with her husband. Yes, but it's an
opportunity to kind of discharge that anger by placing it
on the subordinate.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
She filled in a lot of gaps there. Really that
you filled in a lot of holes.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Okay, but she put the grenade on Savannah when really
maybe it's intended for her husband, mister Don Draper, Yeah,
Richard gear guy. Okay, well do you think these are
fictitious holes?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
I just think we need more information. I think that
let's just again go to that you look great thing,
like I said you maybe she said I lost it.
There's a difference between yeah, you look great or you
look great? Okay, bit different, right, So how was it
we need to know?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well, because of the wife's automatic icy behavior, I believe
that it was a flirtatious. Savannah even said he was flirting,
that he was flirtatious. So I think when he says
you look great, he was probably flirting.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Okay, and again.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
We are relying on her perception. But for the sake
of argument, let's just say her perceptions are at say everything. Yeah,
she's saving it accurately, we're seeing workplace retaliation. How do
you deal with it?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
So is there like an internal way to deal with it?
Could she then go, you know, to HR and go listen,
this thing got a little like dicey at the party.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
She could. I would take that step.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yet, I think that's pretty extreme. I mean, yeah, you're
at a party and then now okay, yeah, your boss
sabotaged you on a deadline and things are icy cold.
But Hr, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I just stay calm, professional document things, start putting it
in writing slightly more boundaried. Give it some time to
play out before you do anything like that.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Okay, I don't know, I think that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
And don't flirt with your boss's.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, I think I think he's I think he's a cheater.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
No, and he could be.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I just think to have that instant of reaction.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I mean, jealousy is a strange thing. Yes, I think
jealousy actually gets a really really bad name.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Wait, explain that. What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Because I believe there's such a thing as healthy jealousy. Oh,
I think it tells us what matters. Oh, it's certainly
very primal.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Ryan says he never feels jealousy.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
I really don't. I'm pretty confident that.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You are the one who suggested tracking each other. Why
for safe, for you can see where she is at
all time?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
No, no, no, no, no, no, it's not that at all. It's
because we both lead very busy lives. We don't always
get a chance to check in or talk. You know,
she's got kids, I don't know. Anti tracking know it's
it's a good thing when we can't communicate, it's fine.
I don't track for jealousy's sake at all at all.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And I think it's weird you've never felt jealousy.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Because I'm so calm and I always feel like it's
like that let them philosophy. If someone's not going to
do you right, let them, that's it. I'm not going
to live my life in this like, oh God, where
are you? What are you doing? What's wrong? I hate that?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I don't think and I don't think there's anything wrong
with that. I think if you ever do feel jealous also,
that's not a horrible thing.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
I here I turned my jealousy into humor, Like, there's
this there's this guy. He's a florist and he's always
trying to send her flowers and stuff. Okay, it's it's
it's weird, right, but I like mock him in a
funny way. I don't I'm not threatened by the florist, right,
but I will. I will say.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Things like like, you know, did Dan send you tho?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I'll just make you know, I'll just make jokes about it.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
A lot of flowers.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No, Like, you know, there was a move recently. He's like,
can I get your new address? And I was like,
please do not give this creepy your new address. Right,
it's weird. Yeah, Like, you know, I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
One time there was a guy at a party that
was kind of chatting me up and stuff, and my
husband saw it, came over and I was just innocently.
I didn't even really realize there was a flirt going
on on his part, right, And then we talked about
it when we got home. I said, hey, like, what
is he like hitting on me hard?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Or was he?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And my husband said, look, I don't know, but I'm
going to tell you if he was. I would have
taken him out. Yeah, yeah, I would have punched him
in the face.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And I loved that, Yeah, I loved that he was
like chivalrous. Yes, it made me feel really good, like, oh,
he really like he cares so much that he could
get a little jealous.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I think I completely understand that. I think that it
makes a lot of sense. Again, jealousy tells us what matters.
There's a difference when it turns into toxic jealousy. And
that's that would be when I'm trying to control you, oh.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
In order to feel safe.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
And I see that because even in this situation with
the florist, not to go back to this weirdo, but
uh like when I go on a little rant about
how ridiculous it is, she she'll tell me like that
kind of turns me on. When you when you when.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
You sound a little bit jealous of the flora, you.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Guys, I'm I'm not jealous of the flora.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
What's his name?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I don't want to say his name. Tray his trust.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Okay, you can be vulnerable, you can tell us.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
No, I don't think he actually does. His name's in
the Instagram.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Okay, have multiple locations.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
No, it's just one.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Here's here's what does like irritate me a little, but
it's so bizarrely creepy.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
At one point years ago, this was during the pandemic.
So he's been like he's had this whole like.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
This has gone for years, you guys.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
He mailed her a catwoman leather suit and asked if
she would wear this in a video like he has.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
He said, this is obsession.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
It's weird. I'm not jealous of it, but I'm just
like you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
She could put that suit on and make money on OnlyFans.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I think she did, No, Ryan, Yeah, I don't know.
At one point, yeah, a little stalker. No No, No, No,
she didn't.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I saw her in a cat suit.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Okay, I mean then that was the cat suit that
this guy sent.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Does she think it's like all car ish?
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Now? She does cat suits?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Odd?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah, And so when I'm like, oh, is this this guy?
So I'll make jokes and then she's like you know what,
it kind of turns me out when you get when
you feel when you act like that.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Do you think you know the whole truth about the floor?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You do?
Speaker 4 (33:14):
No?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I do you don't think that there.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Was No, No, I know the whole I know the
whole truth I do, and I'm not jealous. I just like,
I just think it's sad. It's like, move on, bro.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I think they had a thing.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
God, you're such a stir you just can't. You can't
resist because they're weird.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
That's that's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
And I don't want him having because I live there now,
I lived. I'm like, they're five days a week. I
don't want him having my address.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You don't want him sending you a cat?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
No, But don't we get what we're receptive to? Meaning
if I was being flirted with at a bar or
a party, Am I not presenting myself as open to that?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Uh huh? Right? And I'm not saying she didn't at
one point, That's what I mean. Yeah, at one point.
That was six seven years ago. Now it's like, Okay,
we don't. We've got to we gotta get rid of
the floorst Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Has she ever requested that the flores cease and desist
from all context?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
No, she's stopped responding though.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, but she's got to be honest. She has to say,
my new boyfriend is really jealous and he knows about
the cat suit.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I had a weak.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Moment and he's disgusted by the cats. I can't, Bryan,
this is so funny, this is hysterical.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
So what does Savannah do? Guys, I don't know. Let's
wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Was she talking about.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
I took us off?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
No, it's I agree document take a step back, slightly
more boundaried, and be more mindful in the future.
And he's a good man. But you know he's marrying
and I see this, I see the problem here.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You know.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Yeah, two kids, Amanda. What if I told you that
being in a relationship with you could very well be
making his unhappy marriage tolerable.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Woof o. It's therapy Thursday. Three friends gathered round to
give therapy because therapy is good for you, and therapy
can help you through situations.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I'm Ellan Kay, I'm Ryan Mano, and.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm Sarah ash So. Sarah is a licensed therapist. Sarah,
you've seen and heard pretty much everything.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I've heard quite a bit over the years.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
One of the most fun things that I love to
do with you, Sarah, is well, pick a restaurant, will
go have lunch. Usually if there's a lobster salad on
the menu, Sarah will order, and then we'll we'll talk
and and you never break patient confidentiality, of course, but
there are situations that we'll talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
There are because there are so many common themes that
run through life, and it's always interesting, never a dull moment.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Here's another question I've always wondered from therapists. Do you
ever stop sort of sizing people up? You know, when
you go through life, you just kind of like that.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
No, I get I could actually get asked that question
a lot, and I think there is sort of a
switch that turns off. Okay, you're not working, so I'm
not constantly analyzing. If somebody asked me a question, then
I can go back into that therapist role and kind
of become more analytic. But it's not something that happens all.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I think one of these podcasts you have to analyze, Ryan.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, we could do. We could do like a series.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah. And by the way, don't think you're off the
hook either, Ellen.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
No, I would love to. I would love analysis. I
would like to know who and what I am. You
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I would be really fun. I'd love to do.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Aren't we blind to We really are.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Many times we can be We're looking for a validation
of what we already think is true. Oh and so
we can often have tunnel vision.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
And do we surround ourselves ourselves with people who validate
what we think?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely all the time. That's why it's like
an echo chamber. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can create our
own echo. That's fascinating, and that's why it can be
really hard to open ourselves up to other perspectives.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I'm constantly in the pursuit of blissful happiness. Yeah, and
so if something takes me off that track, I think
I feel it more than the average bear she does
I do. I get like I can go into it
and just feel like why oh yeah, Like I get
so in my head if something negative comes along where
it could just be something that can be fixed.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
And then you know what happens to you as one
of Ellen's confidants for a long long time over a decade,
I then don't want to downplay it because it means
so much to her, of course, but in my brain
I want to go, hey, it's no big deal. But
if I say that, then it's like, oh, you're not
hearing me.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Is it generally relationally like if you feel someone is
upset with you?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yes? Where Yes, yes totally. That's why I'm a people pleaser.
I do believe that. But also I didn't grow up
that way. I know this is about me. We're going
to get to Amanda in a minute, but I was
just thinking I'm the fifth out of six kids, and
I was always happy, go lucky and didn't bring drama
to the family. I was just always that kid and
(03:33):
that made me really happy. Plus I was a swimmer,
and so my endorphins are always going anyway. I would
like to get to a h Let's get to a medal,
all right, Amanda, welcome. You are on with Therapy Thursday
the podcast and licensed therapist Sarah Dash.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I'm good? How are you good? Amanda? So Sarah's here
for you. You've got a big concern. Does it feel
like a weight on your back?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It does like a huge weight carrying it around all
the time.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Tell Sarah what's going on?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
All right?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So I never thought it would be that woman, but
you know, the one waiting for the married man to
leave his wife. But here I am two years later,
and I'm still waiting for Eduardo h two years two
years okay to yeah yeah. And he said he's never
(04:31):
felt this kind of connection before. He tells me I'm
his peace and his best friend and you know, the
person who finally understands him. When we're together, it's it
feels real. You know. We talk every day and he
tells me what's the future with me? The pictures waking
up next to me for the rest of his life.
(04:52):
But then you know, reality sets in and uh like,
there's always a reason he can't leave. Okay, you know,
first it was financial, and then the kids are too young,
and then his wife was going through a hard time,
and now it's the housing market and the guilt and
the fear of hurting everybody.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Okay, Amanda, I'm hearing that. He says some very kind things,
some very loving things. But I want you to pay
attention to his behavior because behavior is the language that
we want to listen to. It's much more informative than words.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, all right, Well, I mean his behavior is he's
wonderful when we're together, and he makes time for me
in his life. But you know, he has two kids
and he's saying he can't imagine not seeing them every
single day. And I get that, I really do. I
wouldn't want to come between a father and his kids,
you know. But where does it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Leave me when when you're with him and he's saying
these nice things, Are you usually naked in bed? Is
it pre during or after sex? Because I think this
is a it is, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It's it's all the time. He's wonderful to me, he
really is.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You do regular things like, you know, go to the
movies or dinner or whatever. I know you're hiding the relationship,
but do you Are you able to have some normalcy?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
We are, you know, we have to hide it, so
we do like secret weekends and it's always a hidden
dinner or you know.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Okay, Amanda.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Have you ever heard in a parking lot? You know?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Oh god, okay, that's that's exciting. Have you ever by
the side of the room.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
It's exciting, you.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Know, right well, and being creative and you know, okay, Amanda.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Have you heard of something called intermittent reinforcement?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
No, okay.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
It's why gambling is addictive. It's because the reward comes
unpredictably and inconsistently, and that is a harm out hall
mark of an affair. That's what makes it so seductive, exciting, erotic.
Is you never know when it's going to be good.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Oh yeah, and so when.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It is good, it's amazing. It's bad, you remember when
it was good, and it keeps you hooked in because
you're waiting for that reward to come back around.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
He's a craps table.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Oh yeah, Wardo.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
He sounds swarthy to me. Is he like like you
would picture an EDWARDO like this handsome you know, what's like,
what's his what's his swagger?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I mean he's funny, smart, like we talk about who
challenges my like perspective on things? It's pretty great, Amanda.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Do you have low self esteem? I'm just curious, just
just in general, would you define yourself for a.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Discuse a person who has those self esteem? Know they
have those self esteem?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Okay, yeah, most people, I would think, I think they do. Yeah, okay,
what's your esteem? Like just your self talk?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
It's pretty good. I mean, like I have a good
view of myself. That's why I'm here. And I'm like,
I'm surprised that i'm this person, you know, because I
don't like to be put second. I don't think I
should put myself on hold for somebody else. But here
I am. You know, like, I know I'm worthy of
a good man, and he is a good man. But
(08:20):
you know he's married, and I see this. I see
the problem here.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
You know, kids, Amanda, what if I told you that
being in a relationship with you could very well be
making his unhappy marriage tolerable.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
WHOA, Oh, I don't know, I guess no.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Think about it. Like, yeah, think about it like this,
whatever's going on in the marriage, whatever in his by
his perception, certain needs aren't being met. You're meeting those needs. Therefore,
he really has no reason to leave that marriage. Your
availability is making the marriage tolerable. I want you to
(09:03):
keep that in mind. And he would actually be more
likely to leave his wife if you ended things. Oh
my god, that's how I see it.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, if she ends things, do you see him coming
back to her eventually or is that just going to
be the end there and he'll start something with someone
else fresh.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, it's possible because he has shown us, you know,
by your description, he's showing you how he deals with
problems in his marriage. He doesn't work out the problems
in the marriage. He seeks support outside the marriage. And
I would be concerned if this behavior would show up
with you. Should he actually leave his wife?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I mean, of course, I want to say it wouldn't,
but I mean that makes a lot of sense, you know,
I mean I don't want to believe that.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I have a girlfriend who is in a relationship with
a married man. He is set rated physically, same scenario,
two or three kids, and so they are always fighting,
getting back together, fighting, getting ba together. She even once
took a restraining order out on him because he was
so addicted to her and said, you're the love of
(10:16):
my life. And he was coming to wherever she was
she travels for work. He would fly to that city.
I mean it was like this.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Obsession that's kind of gross.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, and so she finally she's she's still dabbling, I
would say, but he can suck her back in so easily,
just with his words. Yeah, and the physicality she said.
She told me when she started getting intimate with him.
She said, it was like her whole body woke up.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Okay, consistency, consistency builds trust. Unpredictability can like create obsession.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Oh that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me.
Hey really quick, Amanda, what are your friends? Do your
friends know?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Okay, so he's.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
What do you think, Sarah?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Could he leave? Of course often times people don't. It's
impossible to know. It's another question would be can the
relationship survive if he's not married. It's part of him
being married. We've talked about this before. You know, the
transgressive arousal. You know something is very powerful because something's
(11:30):
powerful because it's forbidden. Without that taboo, it loses the
erotic factor.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
If you didn't have to sneak. Do you think he
would be this much of a snack?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, I think so, I mean, but then I'm like,
you know, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, look,
you know, he's like he should know by now if
if he wants me, and if he wants to be
with me and I want to be with him, I'm
willing to give a go. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Are you willing to leave?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah? I mean I've pulled him that before, and then
he looks me in the eyes and he's like, please,
don't give up on us. You know, behavior is language.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Remember what we said earlier. Behavior is the language you
want to listen to, not the pretty words. It's pillow talk.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I love. There's a quote I love. I've used this
a lot, and maybe you agree or disagree, Sarah, but
we encourage what we tolerate, and right now you are
encouraging him by tolerating this for two years you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, you have educated him, You've really educated him. He's
learned that he doesn't have to.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Leave, not at all. Why would he's getting what he
wants here, and he has what he has here, there's
a safe he's just.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
He's a world has not gotten busted? Like, how for
two years with this relationship? How has he not been caught?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I don't know, We don't. We're really careful, but we
almostly kind of just sometime tidy plain sight, you know,
like oh interesting?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Really will you show up at the restaurant where he
and his family are?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, but like we won't lie about he won't lie
about where he's going. He just you know, there's it's
we try to lie at least as possible to keep
from getting caught.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Have you ever come close to threatening to tell his
wife or to come out with it?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Right?
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Has it? Has something pissed you off so much that
you're like, you know what, F you, I'm gonna I'm
gonna tell her.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
No, I wouldn't do that because I I don't want
I mean, I I know how hurtful this is, but
I don't want anybody to get hurt, you know, like
I don't want to pause pain every time by doing this.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
The marriage, The marriage is being hurt. She is she
is actually she's actually being hurt, whether she knows it
or not, that that doesn't make it right.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I get that, but like I wouldn't go to her
and purpose her to get back at Ham or something.
I wouldn't do.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
What about the kids? Do you ever think of the kids?
Do you do the kids enter your mind?
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Do you know the kids?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I know them, Yeah, I don't like, I just I
just know I've met them, like, but not in this contact.
I just know them from the being around the family before.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
This would be an interesting This is what I would
ask him as a question if I could, just if
I was just like a fly on the wall, I
would be like, do you realize that you are doing
this to your children? Oh, you're doing it too, yes,
your marriage, but you're doing this to your two children.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
It's a betrayal of the family unit, not just the wife.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I agree with that, and so that might put things
in a harsh perspective, but that's really the truth. And
it just feels like you guys are so sexed up
with each other that that reality, like you said, reality,
I think you even said reality comes roaring in.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, it does, it does. I mean it's wonderful being
with him, and then reality sets in of all the
consequences all you know is he going to be with me?
Is he not going to be with me? What am
I waiting around for? I am wasting time? You know?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
What I know is that you're putting a lot of
energy and a lot of time into a relationship that
has not been reality tested.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Right right? Yeah? I agree? I agree?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Have you ever dated while.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I'm alone with his family? Well?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
And that sucks to go to bed every night knowing that,
right that he where's he? Where's he sleeping? He's in
bed with his wife.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
If you knew that he was not going to leave
his wife for five years, would you stay?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I don't think so. No, not for five years?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
All right, because that's likely what's going to happen, because
I keep hearing excuse after excuse after excuse. There's no
plan in place?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Right, you should know by now if he wants to
be with me or no.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
You know, you should know now whether you want to
be with him.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Okay, yeah, I'm going to ask you one more question.
Did this when you guys began this was was he
already Did he come into this with you with a
as far as you know, a desire to no longer
be married to her?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Like?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Was the marriage kind of unraveling and then you showed
up or did you showing up unravel the marriage?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Oh that's a good, good question.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I think there were some problems, but nothing that couldn't,
you know, be fixed. I guess it wasn't like ending.
You know, it wasn't great, but it wasn't ending.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Did you how did you meet Eduardo?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I met him through work.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay, is he okay?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
We'll leave it there.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, thank you, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Okay, what are you going to do? What are you
going to do? Man, if you if you had to
make a decision today, a decision you could not go
back on.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
My heart spells me to stay, and my gut tells
me to go, and if he really wants me, then
he will leave his life and come get me. And
like you said, okay, try to think.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Try to think about what you want, not what you
hope he's going to write.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
What do I want him? But I want a life.
I don't want to be the side piece forever on
the side.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Of the road.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Right, As exciting as that may be.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Sarah likes it, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Well, yeah, look, having the experience of my friend who
has been in this same movie, you will stay as
long as humanly possible, and that this way, and I
believe that this is why my friend is still in
You don't have to think about other people and date
other guys because you know what you're getting with the
(18:09):
married man.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
It's true. I would encourage you to think about what
being with an unavailable partner actually serves you. How does
that serve you? I should say, And that's that's a
bigger question, and that's a longer, you know, discussion, but
it is something to consider. It's like, how does this
work for you rather than against you? Because maybe that'll
(18:31):
give you some insight as to why you continue to
tolerate this uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, it's almost like it's safer, you know, because I
know what I'm getting. I know what the boundaries are.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, just think of what you could be missing out on.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Right, it's risky out there, but.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It could be wonderful.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I think it's risky in there.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Yeah, it's risky on the.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It's risky on the side of the roads, no matter
how exciting.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Oh my gosh, Okay, Well, so Amanda, have I mean, like,
do you feel like you've made any progress on this podcast?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I do.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I really do. Like You've given me a lot to
think about in a lot of insight, and I don't
have to make a decision what's best for me and
not for him.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Sarah.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
You probably, I know you've seen this probably multiple times.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, many times. What's the key, the key to getting
out of it or the key to finding her?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Hat? I guess Yeah, I guess he's not getting out
of it. That's what we've determined. Right.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
This is great for him, think about it. This is great. Yeah,
this situation works beautifully for him.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
That reminds me so the guy with my friend, the
married guy. You know what he said, I have such
I have love at home and I've got love with you.
Have so much love in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yes, Okay, a.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Corner co of abundance of life taking and.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Both women are allowing it. I'm sure the wife they're
separated physically. I'm sure the wife knows well. He's out
there doing stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, he's got the best of both worlds.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
It's great for him.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It's maddening, it is.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Wow, Amanda, you are actually making it easy for him
to stay married. I know it doesn't feel like that
you're making this easy.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Trust Sarah, she's seen this so many times.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
You know, I'm looking at your name, Amanda, and I'm
just it's it's coming to me right now. He's a man.
All right, good luck out there?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, all right, well please let us know.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I will thank you. Bye, Amanda, Sorry bye.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
What do we think now that she's off the line. Yeah, yeah, no,
you're good. What do we think just with her? Not yet?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I think she really doesn't want to leave. I think
she does believe that he is her true love, and
I don't think she can possibly know whether he is
a true love because the relationship has not been reality tested.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Is there a chance that he is, though? Is there
a chance that he's actually like, holy shit, I love
her absolutely?
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, there's a chance. I don't want to discount that as.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
In the movie. Sometimes yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
It can happen in real life. But okay, I was
talking about the intermittent reinforcement and the gambling. Yeah, every
once in a while you could hit a jackpart.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Have you had clients that have hit the jackpot with
an affair.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I'd have to think long and hard to find one.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, okay, so it's that a frequency. No. Now we
got Savannah who wrote to us so you can get
a hold of us multiple ways. Hit us up on
the top button on iHeart. You can also write to us,
call us whatever it is. This is a Savannah, she says.
(22:07):
I report your female boss, who happens to have a
very handsome, confident husband. He's like Don Draper mixed with
Richard Gear Silver Fox kind of stuff. At our company
anniversary party a few months ago, her husband was really
friendly and chatty with me, and I was just being
polite by engaging in the innocent, slightly flirty conversation. I'm single.
(22:30):
I don't like bringing a plus one to company functions,
but this was the first one he attended, and he
was giving me lots of attention. He was laughing and
telling me funny stories about tennis with his buddies, and
then he told me I look great, and the wife
heard him say it. All right, So now, and now
(22:50):
everything has gone cold at work, she said. That's the
very moment things between she and I turned icy cold.
Cold shoulder Shorty responses the whole thing last week. Turned
in an important report to senior leadership a full week late.
She's the one who verbally gave me the deadline. Okay,
so there's sabotage here, setting her up, setting her up.
(23:12):
Do I bring it up? We both know what's happening.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Savannah, Okay, I have an idea about what I think
about this, but I'm going to ask the two of
you first. Does she bring it up or not?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Of course she brings it up, she puts it right
out there on the table.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
I also would say, yes, you have to confront.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
It, and I would say absolutely not. You're now and
I'll tell you why. Do I really want to tell
you why?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yeah, no, I want to know.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I want to tell you why. It's it's let this go,
Let this go. Take a step back, slightly more boundaried.
Document everything. Somebody says reports to Friday. Send a text
or an email just to confirm reports you Friday, create
a paper trail. You want to document things, but don't.
(24:02):
This is not a conversation. It's going to be helpful.
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
What do you think would happen if there were a conversation.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I think you're going to create a situation that's even
more awkward and tense. You're going to bring it to
the forefront, and usually I would I am very much
about direct communication and transparency, but in this situation, I
really believe it's unwise. Okay, what the best settle?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
But it's clear that this boss is already now on
somewhat of a war path, you know. So what's your
advice to think.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
She thinks the boss is on the war path?
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Don't want to presume that something is an action that
you can't be certain of, especially when you're dealing with
the boss.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
That's fascinating. I think that that's really healthy advice right there.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
I mean, we do project things, Yeah, we do. Maybe
she did miss hear something, and I'm not doubting her reality.
I don't think she's being dishonest, but maybe she feels
uncomfortable about something that happened, and so she's perceiving that
the boss is doing these things when in fact she
may not be. That's why you don't want to bring
(25:13):
up something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Okay, So is it then possible that maybe even the
husband wasn't flirting with her? Right? Like? Did she misread that? Even?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Good question? It's interesting because she describes him in terms
that makes me think she was quite attractive.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Attracted him one hundred percent. Try a silver fox kind
of stuff. Don draper mixed with Richard gear and then
she puts, he was giving me lots of attention. It's
all caps, lots of attention.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
But Ellen, that could have just been her perception.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
She was I'm telling you as a woman, she liked it.
I think she liked the attention.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think I think it felt good. And don't flirt
with other women's husbands, especially if they are your boss.
That is a very unwise decision.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
It sounds like she lingered. She could have said excuse me,
She could have made up anything to get away from him,
and then he has to go and say you look great,
and the boss wife hears him say, guys.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
We don't know the context of that conversation. She may
have said, oh, yeah, I'm down thirty six pounds. I've
been doing you know, pilates, right, and he goes, oh
you look great.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah right, yeah, very innocent, very true. Yeah. But the
way that this wife reacted, I feel like maybe there
could be cheating history with this couple, and maybe the
wife has her radar on. They're at a work event.
It's the first one he's attended. Here's Savannah, she has
no plus one, and she sees some giggling and laughing
(26:42):
and engagement. So with her background with this guy, she's like,
oh my god, he's strayed before I got to get
over there. And then there he is giving her the evidence.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
And that is a great point because maybe she is
actually very angry with her husband. Yes, but it's an
opportunity to kind of discharge that anger by placing it
on the subordinate.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
She filled in a lot of gaps there. Really that
you filled in a lot of holes.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Okay, but she put the grenade on Savannah when really
maybe it's intended for her husband, mister Don Draper, Yeah,
Richard gear guy. Okay, well do you think these are
fictitious holes?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
I just think we need more information. I think that
let's just again go to that you look great thing,
like I said you maybe she said I lost it.
There's a difference between yeah, you look great or you
look great? Okay, bit different, right, So how was it
we need to know?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well, because of the wife's automatic icy behavior, I believe
that it was a flirtatious. Savannah even said he was flirting,
that he was flirtatious. So I think when he says
you look great, he was probably flirting.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Okay, and again.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
We are relying on her perception. But for the sake
of argument, let's just say her perceptions are at say everything. Yeah,
she's saving it accurately, we're seeing workplace retaliation. How do
you deal with it?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
So is there like an internal way to deal with it?
Could she then go, you know, to HR and go listen,
this thing got a little like dicey at the party.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
She could. I would take that step.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yet, I think that's pretty extreme. I mean, yeah, you're
at a party and then now okay, yeah, your boss
sabotaged you on a deadline and things are icy cold.
But Hr, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I just stay calm, professional document things, start putting it
in writing slightly more boundaried. Give it some time to
play out before you do anything like that.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Okay, I don't know, I think that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
And don't flirt with your boss's.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, I think I think he's I think he's a cheater.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
No, and he could be.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I just think to have that instant of reaction.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I mean, jealousy is a strange thing. Yes, I think
jealousy actually gets a really really bad name.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Wait, explain that. What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Because I believe there's such a thing as healthy jealousy. Oh,
I think it tells us what matters. Oh, it's certainly
very primal.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Ryan says he never feels jealousy.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
I really don't. I'm pretty confident that.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You are the one who suggested tracking each other. Why
for safe, for you can see where she is at
all time?
Speaker 4 (29:31):
No, no, no, no, no, no, it's not that at all. It's
because we both lead very busy lives. We don't always
get a chance to check in or talk. You know,
she's got kids, I don't know. Anti tracking know it's
it's a good thing when we can't communicate, it's fine.
I don't track for jealousy's sake at all at all.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And I think it's weird you've never felt jealousy.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Because I'm so calm and I always feel like it's
like that let them philosophy. If someone's not going to
do you right, let them, that's it. I'm not going
to live my life in this like, oh God, where
are you? What are you doing? What's wrong? I hate that?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I don't think and I don't think there's anything wrong
with that. I think if you ever do feel jealous also,
that's not a horrible thing.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
I here I turned my jealousy into humor, Like, there's
this there's this guy. He's a florist and he's always
trying to send her flowers and stuff. Okay, it's it's
it's weird, right, but I like mock him in a
funny way. I don't I'm not threatened by the florist, right,
but I will. I will say.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Things like like, you know, did Dan send you tho?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I'll just make you know, I'll just make jokes about it.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
A lot of flowers.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No, Like, you know, there was a move recently. He's like,
can I get your new address? And I was like,
please do not give this creepy your new address. Right,
it's weird. Yeah, Like, you know, I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
One time there was a guy at a party that
was kind of chatting me up and stuff, and my
husband saw it, came over and I was just innocently.
I didn't even really realize there was a flirt going
on on his part, right, And then we talked about
it when we got home. I said, hey, like, what
is he like hitting on me hard?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Or was he?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And my husband said, look, I don't know, but I'm
going to tell you if he was. I would have
taken him out. Yeah, yeah, I would have punched him
in the face.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And I loved that, Yeah, I loved that he was
like chivalrous. Yes, it made me feel really good, like, oh,
he really like he cares so much that he could
get a little jealous.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I think I completely understand that. I think that it
makes a lot of sense. Again, jealousy tells us what matters.
There's a difference when it turns into toxic jealousy. And
that's that would be when I'm trying to control you, oh.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
In order to feel safe.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
And I see that because even in this situation with
the florist, not to go back to this weirdo, but
uh like when I go on a little rant about
how ridiculous it is, she she'll tell me like that
kind of turns me on. When you when you when.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
You sound a little bit jealous of the flora, you.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Guys, I'm I'm not jealous of the flora.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
What's his name?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I don't want to say his name. Tray his trust.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Okay, you can be vulnerable, you can tell us.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
No, I don't think he actually does. His name's in
the Instagram.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Okay, have multiple locations.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
No, it's just one.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Here's here's what does like irritate me a little, but
it's so bizarrely creepy.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
At one point years ago, this was during the pandemic.
So he's been like he's had this whole like.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
This has gone for years, you guys.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
He mailed her a catwoman leather suit and asked if
she would wear this in a video like he has.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
He said, this is obsession.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
It's weird. I'm not jealous of it, but I'm just
like you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
She could put that suit on and make money on OnlyFans.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I think she did, No, Ryan, Yeah, I don't know.
At one point, yeah, a little stalker. No No, No, No,
she didn't.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I saw her in a cat suit.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Okay, I mean then that was the cat suit that
this guy sent.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Does she think it's like all car ish?
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Now? She does cat suits?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Odd?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah, And so when I'm like, oh, is this this guy?
So I'll make jokes and then she's like you know what,
it kind of turns me out when you get when
you feel when you act like that.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Do you think you know the whole truth about the floor?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You do?
Speaker 4 (33:14):
No?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I do you don't think that there.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Was No, No, I know the whole I know the
whole truth I do, and I'm not jealous. I just like,
I just think it's sad. It's like, move on, bro.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I think they had a thing.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
God, you're such a stir you just can't. You can't
resist because they're weird.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
That's that's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
And I don't want him having because I live there now,
I lived. I'm like, they're five days a week. I
don't want him having my address.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You don't want him sending you a cat?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
No, But don't we get what we're receptive to? Meaning
if I was being flirted with at a bar or
a party, Am I not presenting myself as open to that?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Uh huh? Right? And I'm not saying she didn't at
one point, That's what I mean. Yeah, at one point.
That was six seven years ago. Now it's like, Okay,
we don't. We've got to we gotta get rid of
the floorst Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Has she ever requested that the flores cease and desist
from all context?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
No, she's stopped responding though.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, but she's got to be honest. She has to say,
my new boyfriend is really jealous and he knows about
the cat suit.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I had a weak.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Moment and he's disgusted by the cats. I can't, Bryan,
this is so funny, this is hysterical.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
So what does Savannah do? Guys, I don't know. Let's
wrap it up.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Was she talking about.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
I took us off?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
No, it's I agree document take a step back, slightly
more boundaried, and be more mindful in the future.
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