Passion and Persistence with Bobby Rahal

On this episode of Throttle Therapy, Katherine Legge speaks with legendary racing driver and team owner, Bobby Rahal. Rahal delves into his roots, discussing how his father's passion for racing inspired his own career. He reflects on the milestone moments of his career, including his Indy 500 victory as a driver in 1986 and as a team owner later on.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to this

(00:21):
week's episode of Throttle's Therapy with Me Catherine Legg. I
apologize to the listeners if I sound a little bit gravelly.
I have a cold at the moment. I used to
think I had a superior immune system, and then I
was tough, and then this is the second time I've
had a cold this year, so I don't think that's

(00:41):
true anymore. Unfortunately, but there was no way on God's
Green Earth I was going to miss today. He's one
of my heroes. He's one of the people I look
up to and when I have to push a little
bit harder, he's one of the people I think, what
would he do? And so I am beyond honored to
welcome Bobby rayhal aka Boss to the show today. Thanks

(01:05):
so much for joining us, Bobby.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
My Pleasure Cabin, My Pleasure good. You look very good
despite being under the weather a bit well.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Thank you. I don't feel it. I don't I don't
have a fever, and so it's just a cold, I think.
But I'm a big baby. I had to call my
mum earlier and tell her that I have man flu
because now I know what you guys go through when
you have a cold. So I really want to start
at the beginning. I know most part of this story.

(01:34):
I've done a fair bit of reading up on you,
and I've known you for gosh like twenty years, probably
now aging us. But I would like to start for
the listeners, I would like to start back at the beginning.
Baby Bobby, Okay, Like what got you interested in racing?
How did this crazy journey of your life start out?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well? I was very I mean, in the end, very
fortune that I grew up on a household. You know,
my father started racing in about the nineteen fifty seven
or eight in sports cars SCCA, and I grew up.
My life really was you know, during the summers in particular,

(02:20):
it was maybe little League baseball and going racing with
my father and my mother. She would always go as well.
And then when I had a younger brother, he would
tag along, but you know we would my father first car.
I remember my dad had just a street car was
a Triumph tr two British. There's a picture I think

(02:42):
in my book of me and my dad in front
of our house, this little tiny house and outside Chicago, Illinois,
and he and I are sitting in the car and
I was just captivated by cars through my father's passional
I must say my mother enjoyed going doing the racing
as well, and so growing up all through the sixties,

(03:05):
I felt so fortunate to witness that decade in particular.
But the period of time when motor racing really exploded,
uh in this country. And so you know, my summers
were going to Elkar Lake, to Ruth America, to Middle Ohio,
to Indianapolis Raceway Park. Uh. We racing Canada once or
twice a year because it was almost like going to

(03:26):
England in those days. Everybody had an English accent or
a Scottish accent French one. Yeah. Well we didn't go
that far east, mainly in Ontario. But yeah, I mean
our garage always had We always had sports cars on
an everyday basis, the Porsche's Alfa Romeos, things of that nature.
And then of course, and there was always a race

(03:47):
car in the garage and it was everything from the
Alfa Romeo, which my dad that was his everyday street car.
And in those days, you'd race once you drove to
the race, right and hope you didn't have an accident
that would keep you from getting back home again. Yeah,
pretty much, And so I just grew up around that,

(04:08):
and of course all the friends that came over and
the young adults at the time, guys that were five
ten years older, would hang out of my house because
we had the only race car in town, and it
was just an amazing environment. And that's that's how it
all started.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Did you go to school or university? Do you have
any aspirations to be anything other than a race car driver?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, I yeah, my family, if you raised you know,
you did it as a hobby. You went to got
your education, that was considered the most important thing first
and foremost. And then if you were able to get
a job that afford to do the ability to go
race them, maybe you did that and you did it
on the weekends, just as my father did. But so

(04:52):
I never had any real expectation. I never even thought
i'd drive a race car, frankly, but in between my
sophomore and junior year college, my dad had an old
Lotus racing car that was well past its prime, and
he said one day, hey, if you want to get
your sec license, go ahead, and you know, take the car.
And so I didn't need any convincing and off we wine.

(05:17):
This was That was May of nineteen seventy three when
I went to the SECA driver school.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
And where was that mid Ohio Ston.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
No, it was Mid America Raceway, which is just outside
it no longer exists, but just outside Saint Louis, you know,
a town called Winsville, Missouri. And yeah, I mean it
was I mean, yeah, what a dream come true for
me really, but again, no expectation, you know, know that, okay,
this was that that was going to be the end
of the line, frankly. But I started winning races and

(05:48):
didn't do that many, but I can. You're at the
bottom rung of the ladder and start winning races. And
over the course of that year, I met some people
that would play huge roles in my career. You know.
From there on I wanted whom was Jim Truman who
started the Red Rief in hotel chain and he lived
in Columbus. So I was going to college not far

(06:08):
from Columbus and we'd hang out together, just a super guy.
And then the following year he agreed to give me
like a thousand dollars to go racing. I thought that
was a tremendous amount of money, that somebody was actually
going to give you money to go racing, and it
just started a snowball from there. But yeah, the expectation

(06:28):
was nominal at best. And but as success came, you know,
you start thinking, now, maybe, yeah, who knows, right, Let's
give this a let's give it a shot. So when
I graduated college in nineteen seventy five, I didn't even
go to my college graduation. I had my first professional
fromer Atlantic Race in Edmonton, Alberta on that same weekend.

(06:50):
And that was the beginning of the of where we
are today.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Frankly, what did you study in college?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
I was a history major, and don't ask me. Yeah,
I didn't know what the hell I want I was, So,
you know, I'm really thankful that, as I tell people,
I don't know if I found racing or if found me.
I think maybe me, yeah, you know, because I was
I didn't know what I wanted to do. My dad
had his own business, but I knew I didn't want
to work for him. You know, it was easy for

(07:18):
me to make the decision to start this adventure, you know, thinking,
well what, you know, what the hell? What's won ye
out of my life? You know, see where it goes?
And that was my passion. Racing was my passion and
automobiles were my passion. And that hasn't changed, you know
since nineteen seventy five or seventy three. Really, I mean
it's here we are, what is that forty some years later? Yeah,

(07:39):
and really the passion of the interest, the love of
automobiles is as strong today as it was then.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Same with racing. I don't know that I'm that much
of a car enthusiast as I am a racing enthusiasts.
So with your dad, obviously you are very close with him,
and obviously I'm going to get into the Graham situation later.
But did he give you tips and tricks and teach
you how to race? Did was he like cuting dad
where he was like baseball Dad on the sidelines all

(08:07):
the time.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
No? Not really, I mean to be honest, when I
started racing, he really didn't come to a racist maybe
one or one or two, but but no, it was
kind of I was talking to someone the other day
and they said, well, I suppose you want to skip
Barber or Bob Bondrot, and I said, no, no, they
didn't have that in those days. I mean you basically

(08:31):
he started racing and it was kind of like on
the job training. You know, you either improved or you
stayed the same, or you got worse. I don't know,
but it was really kind of up to you. You
tool yourself basically, Yeah, he really, he really kind of did.
And you know, you also hung around people who were

(08:51):
you know, I had a mechanic in nineteen seventy five
that really taught me a lot as well. So there
were people like that that played a big role. But
as far as you know what's an apex, well you
kind of figured that one out, you know, so pretty
low key, I guess if you want to say anything

(09:11):
about the whole process, and you know, you know, and
yet here we are, and I think that that's the
way it was for everybody in those days, right.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
No telemetry to go off will be there, so that
you picked apart on the race track where you're going
to break out, and then you'd like push it a
little bit further and then you'd like go it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, I mean when I first started racing, I thought
the way you went faster is you just tried harder.
You know, we thought that, yeah, you know you didn't.
You didn't think about cambers or casters or tow in
or tow out or spring rates. I mean it was
just basically, oh, hell, well, you know, the car is
the car, and now it's just up to me to
make it faster. Well, thankfully you you end up finding

(09:47):
out that that's not just all about you, that you
can make material effect on the performance of the car
by tuning it. And uh you know that later again,
being around people who knew that that taught to you
that part of it. You know, that was obviously important.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back. Welcome back to Toronto Therapy. So you got
through your first year of racing. After that Edmonton I
guess debut, and then what happened from there? You want

(10:26):
a bunch of races and decided I'm all in, I'm
not going to go work, I'm going to do this.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well, yeah, I mean after seventy five seventy six, I
went to drive for the March racing car importer in
the United States by named Doug Sheerson, who I had
gotten to know And did you have any Lord March.
Oh I met Lord March. Yeah, that's a different guy,
that's a different Yeah. So March was actually it was

(10:51):
an acronym for fella named Moseley and Alan Reevees. These
were all English guys that were you know, they'd run
Formula two, Former two teams, Formula three anyway. And the
guy the designer of the of the car was founding
Robin Heard. So that's where they h came in. And
Robin Heard was a genius. He designed cars for Bruce McLaren,

(11:12):
was very critical to the early days of McLaren's success.
And then he started March Engineering and with these other
fellows and so, and it was kind of in Formula three,
the junior categories in form of open wheel categories in
Europe and in America. You know, previously it had been
like Lotus, for example, it was probably the dominant brand.
But by nineteen seventy four or five six, now of

(11:35):
a sudden you're getting its March Engineering. It's Rault, which
was a fund named Ron Taranak, who was Jack Brabham's
designer for many many years, you know, Lola Cars, which
was a very famous manufacturer for many many years. So
you had these junior categories and it was really an

(11:55):
unbelievable period of time because there were a lot of
young kids in Atlantic that was the formula in this country,
in North America, I should say, to participate in because
it really the competition was fierce, and in fact, in
nineteen seventy six, my main competition was Jill Bilineuve, who
I had raced against in seventy five, and you know,

(12:18):
we had been successful against Jill in seventy five, but
in seventy six he won just about everything and I
had a horrible year. I actually I've actually retired from
racing at the end of nineteen seventy six. I was
so frustrated and disappointed, disgusted, as you well know, you know,
your your enthusiasm, your confidence really takes a beating when

(12:39):
you don't have success. So you have a lot of
things that get in the way, and many of which
may or may not be your fault. And so at
the end of seventy six, I said forget it, I'm done,
and I went to work for an advertising agency in Chicago.
Oh yeah, and I thought, okay, now maybe with this,
now I can go race for fun. Anyway, about six

(13:01):
months after I started that job, my girlfriend at the
time and my ex mechanic, who had spoken up earlier, said,
you know, you're you're going to regret doing this. You
need you need to stick with it. You need to
you know, see it through, and introduced me to a
fellow in New York City who was on Wall Street
that had bought the Villain of Cars from the year before,
and he said, hey, I want you to come drive

(13:23):
for me. I'll pay you. I think he paid me
eighteen thousand dollars in nineteen seventy seven. I had a
lot of That was a lot of money for me
because I hadn't been paid before. You know, I was
always you know, you're living by, you know, by whatever
prize money you might make, which wasn't a lot anyway.
So I I went went, I'm retired out of racing,

(13:44):
retired out of the advertising business. And off we went,
and in nineteen seventy seven won a couple of races
in Atlantic and finished second to Shill in the Championship
a car. Gill then went on to Formula one that
year with Ferrari, and so seventy eight was really the
breakthrough year for me in many respects because I went

(14:04):
to New Zealand for the Tasman Series in Atlantic, you know,
one one one of the five races there. My teammate
was kk Rossberg, who would later be world champion with Williams.
So cool and uh and then that year had another
winner two with the Atlantic, and then also was asked
to go drive Delara's first Formula three car, and I

(14:27):
was hired to run selected Formula three races in Europe
with the idea that I would be the teammate to
Jody Schechter in nineteen seventy nine, and it all worked great.
In seventy eight I raced many of the great circuits
in Europe and then did the Canadian and US Grand
Priests as proposed, and then unfortunately Jody went to Ferrari

(14:53):
and James Hunt came to the Wolf Racing team and
they only wanted one when he only wanted one, a
one car team, and so yours truly was on the
outside looking in again. But anyway, you know, it was
a great, great kind of maturation process, did you so you.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Went from not racing very much to was like literally
racing every weekend all over the world.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
In seventy eight. I don't know how many races I
did that year. Probably if I think about it, there
must have been close to twenty five races, you know,
all over the world. And I mean it was you know,
and I raced some cam racing in seventy seven, seventy eight.
You know, anything I could get into, I tried to
I tried to drive, and and so yeah, I was

(15:38):
I was quite busy.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Did you was your ultimate goal Formula one?

Speaker 2 (15:43):
You won that?

Speaker 1 (15:44):
It was you?

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, it was you know because again my when where
I grew up, my my dad was in the sports cars,
you know, not it was road racing. I mean I
really didn't have any interest in Indy Car at the
time because you know, I thought, you know, I mean
Formula one was my goal. And and you know when
I got to the Formula one that is Glenn and

(16:06):
it was the first race they had in Montreal in
seventy eight, you know, I was like, okay, really, in
five years, I'd gone from never having driven a race
card to being in Formula one. And that's not bad.
That's not bad. You know, that's why you're a legend
that you are. Will Yeah, but I didn't. My Formula
one career was unfortunately rather brief. And you know, if

(16:29):
I look back, I know I never I don't have
any regrets by any means. I mean, I I never
dreamed I would have a career like I've had, or
even what I'm doing now as a team I or
never dreamed of that when I first started. And yet
so for me to have any regrets would be really
kind of ridiculous. But certainly I wished I'd approached the

(16:50):
Formula one thing a little differently and and and maybe
had some adult leadership there rather than being a twenty
four year old kid thinking he knew everything.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
That happens to the best of ones.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, so, yeah, it happens. And in any event, Yeah,
I mean, you know, when I got on the grid
at Watkins Glenn in seventy eight, I just thought, in
the Formula one grid, I just kind of had to
pinch yourself.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
I made it. I felt that Indy. So after seventy eight,
then what was the draw to IndyCar How did that
transition happen?

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, you know, at that time seventy eight. Seventy nine
is when kart was actually started. I think seventy nine
might have been the first year, maybe seventy eight, but
for sure, more and more road courses were starting to
be put on the schedule. You know. In seventy nine
I did F two from two in Europe. I was

(17:48):
hired halfway through that summer to replace George Falmer, who
was a very famous driver in America really around the world.
He'd been hurt the year before in a Canon Craft
and I took his place for the same team and
one ut Laguna Seka one one out of five races
on the front row every race I ran that year

(18:10):
in Qualifine and again now I'm back with Jim Truman,
I'm back over here. Now it was clear that my
career now really had to stay kind of in North America,
although I still did endurance races like Lamal and others
near Murdering in nineteen eighty and eighty one, eighty two
for that matter, but really my focus was here. And

(18:33):
of course now now the interest because Indy car was
now racing on road courses. Now this had interest to me,
and so you know, I remember saying letters to Pat Patrick,
who had one of the top teams at the time
in Roger Penske. Yeah, it was it was don't call us,
we'll call you. And then in nineteen eighty one, Jim

(18:54):
Truman said to me, uh, you know, he says, you know,
I want to go to Indy. I want to have
our own team. I want you to drive the car.
You've got to find people to find to buy the
engines and the cars, and I'll put up everything else.
And that was certainly the best offer I had. Uh.
And of course I had known Jim now for at
that point about seven seven years or so. We're just

(19:15):
a wonderful man. So I said, done, let's go and
s Our Brookie year was Indian Car and eighty two
and at that time you had ten races, but three
of them I think were on road courses at the time.
So yeah, we had elkar Leg, we had Cleveland. That
was first year of Cleveland brand Prix.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
We were trying to think where else. In any event,
Emmy finished second in the championship my first year. We wanted,
you know, I wanted Cleveland and wanted Michigan on the oval.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Who won the championship that year.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Rick Mayrasson was first and I was second, and so
all of a sudden, then now the Pat Patrickson and
Roger Penskes are knocking on my door.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Right, it must have been a nice feeling.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Well yeah, but as I said, you know, Jim Truman
brought me to the day ants, so I was going
to go home with him and we had a great
period of time until he regrettably passed away right after
we won Indy in eighty six.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
So talking about Indy, the Indy Car was new to you,
and so the thought of winning the Indy five hundred
must have been a big draw to IndyCar for you.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah. Yeah, although you know, of course I again, I
we so our team was we had probably at the
time you could start an IndyCar team with maybe six people.
That's not like it is by Indians, right, because you
didn't have engineers per se. I mean that people did,
but you know, he was more. You know, you had
a really good chief mechanic who was really kind of
an engineer by trade. You know, guys like Jim McGee

(20:44):
and others. Great famously, you know, he worked with Mario,
he worked with Penske, you know, Great worked with Gordon
John Cock, I mean just great, a great guy.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Me.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, McGee was. McGee was. He worked for me in
ninety two and we won my last championship and the
guy was his. Talk about a hero, talk about a
titan of the sport. But in any event, going to Indy,
I mean Indy was the first time I went there.
You've been there, and you know, I mean I went
there for it was the first year of rookie orientation

(21:16):
and it was I think early April or something, and
went there and it was like thirty five degrees thirty
eight degrees. It was gray. It was a miserable weather,
Indiana weather, you know, just cold, windy Midwest. And you
know the speedway all the grand stands are painted battleship gray.
So yeah, it was gray, sky, gray, grandstands gray. I mean,
it was just depressing. And I remember going out and

(21:39):
you know, running and it was it was intimidating, you know.
And I had done Formula one at that point, i'd
gone to Lamon.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Had you done any other ovals by them?

Speaker 2 (21:48):
No, I've never done. The only oval I had done
prior to that was Phoenix, which was the first oval,
first race of the cart season. And none of us
had any experience in the team with ovals and you know,
and I had this view that, oh, well, can't be
very tough. All you do is turn left right. You
get there and it's like, oh, oh okay. Uh, you know,

(22:11):
it's like it's frightening. It's because when the car is
on handling on oval, it's, you know, maybe the scariest
thing you could ever do. And we qualified out of
two thirds of the way back on the on the
grid in the first race, and they caught me on
fire after at the first pit stop and that was it.
And we we were so shell shocked after that that
we didn't even go to the second race, which was

(22:32):
at Atlanta Speedway. You know Steve Horn who was our
team manager, he'd been with the VDS Racing team and
FORMA five thousand and can m He's from New Zealand,
great guy, very smart. He said, we're not going to Atlanta.
We need to get our act together before Indy because
at this rate, you know, we're not going to qualify.
And so we kind of with our tails between our legs,

(22:52):
slunk back to Columbus, Ohio from Phoenix, and then we
brought in a guy named Lee Dykstra, who was a
great well known engineer, been around for since the sixties,
done a lot of you know, for people like Al
Holberts and and there was just a very sharp guy.
And all of a sudden things started coming around because
now we had a guy who understood what you know,

(23:14):
what corner weights, what that could do to it. Yeah,
we had no idea. Yeah, we were just yeah. And
as I said, I think we all thought we were
we we're road racing, we're better. I mean when I was,
you know, when I was watching the five High but
Mark Downy who won in seventy two, I was so
happy because it was a road racing guy showing those
old guys you know what it's all about. Well, you

(23:36):
know Mark down here was a special driver. So but
I thought, yeah, I mean it was it was, uh,
that year nineteen eighty two went from the first quarter
of that year, the first six months maybe was just
I mean it was it was intimidating, scary whatever. In
the next the remaining six months it was, man, this

(23:58):
is fun. Yeah, you know, this is good. And uh
and now of course it just took off from there.
But yeah, it was, Uh, there's a lot to turning left.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
You know, I know I used to think before I
did Ovals, I used to think that it was just
a sequence of fast corners that you'd string together, you know,
like going through the kink at Road America or something.
How wrong I was. We're going to take a quick break,
but we will be right back. Welcome back to Toronto Therapy.

(24:32):
How did you land in Ohio? Because you you've obviously
made that transition to Ohio. Now what happened?

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Well, Jim, that's what Jim Truman was based. Okay, And
you know in nineteen seventy five, when I graduated from university,
I thought, I said, you know, I'm not coming back
to Ohio. I mean, I just spent four years there,
and you know, I'm never doing this again. And yeah,
there I am five years later and and I'm I'm
in Ohio again. And and that's so, you know, it

(24:59):
was his team and it was great because it was
a great time to live and I lived there about
twenty five years. You know, a lot of racing history
and state of Ohio. Of course, midd Ohio is right
up the street. They had Cleveland, you know, come on
board in eighty two as well, so Ohio is a
good place for us to be good people. And you know,

(25:23):
so that's just how it kind of ended up. There
was that was part of the deal.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
It also where I started my American racing career with
Jim and Pam Griffith. And you know, so how many
years were you doing INDYCA Before you won the Indy
five hundred.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
So eighty two was my rookie year and we won
in eighty six, so our fifth year. But you know,
we had won two races in eighty two, eighty three,
we had an okay year one one, eighty four won
two races two in a row, actually Phoenix and Lagunesekah.
And then eighty five I won won three races and

(26:00):
should have won, could have well won my first championship
in eighty five, but Joe Vilno's brother took me out
at an oval and in uh In in Quebec place
called Santair, a little seven eight s mile oval never
had But I mean, so we had success. I mean,
we had been competitive, but you know, but also uh,
you know in eighty three we qualified on the second row.

(26:21):
I think it was at.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Indy in late your third year. That's pretty impressive.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, And eighty four eighty five. I was on the
outside front row and led the race from the start
in eighty six qualified four. So I mean we were
we were We were competitive on the ovals by eighty
three really because of all the people that the experience
that we had gained and were gaining. But yeah, I
mean so it's like anything. And Roger Penske says, you know,

(26:48):
when somebody asked the secrets of success, they'll always tell
you it's people. And he's dead right. You know, if
you're if you're able to surround yourself with great people
that you know, there's no guarantees, but POI, it makes
it a lot easier.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, so fast forward to your Indy win. I can't
imagine the emotion and like what that was like. But
then when you want it again as a team owner,
Like how did those emotions compare like the first time
you want it and then doing it again?

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well, I mean one when I want as a driver.
Of course, the dominating thing within our organization, our team
was you know, Jim's health, which was not good actually,
you know, he was diagnosed with colon cancer in nineteen
eighty four and it was just progressively, I mean they

(27:37):
had amount of very radical protocol to try to stem it,
and you know, it was kind of working, but not
kind of in By nineteen eighty five, it was pretty
clear that, you know, the end was not far away
for Jim. And of course he was so critical for
all of us in that team. He's the one who
you know, brought the team together. He's the one that

(27:59):
I mean, he was a raise that. You know, Jim
was a racer. He was a very successful sec A racer,
a very competitive guy and everything he did, and but
just the most honest, straightforward, ethical guy.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
So he was like a friend, like a friend and
the boss.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Kind of well, yeah, I tell people it was like
friend mentor father, good uncle, bad uncle. I mean, he
wasn't afraid to He wasn't afraid to tell you what
he thought, you.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Know, but that's the way you get it from them.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah. I don't know if I got from him, but
you know, hey, you know, you can't sugarcoat thanks, right
at some at some points you got to lay it
on the line. And in fact, the race was originally scheduled,
it was it was going to be the he was
He was born on the twenty fifth of May and
that was going to be the race date that year
and his birthday, and then it rained. He was fiftieth birthday,

(28:53):
fifty first birthday, and then it rain for three days straight.
So they delayed it a week, you know, till the
following weekend. And he barely made that that that weekend.
I mean, he was in very very bad shade, and
I mean it must have the win that yeah, So
to win that time, you know, as I say to people,
it's not often then you get to realize someone else's dreams,

(29:17):
you know, And for Jim that was a dream and
kind of I think supposedly he said to one of
our one of my friends, he says, well, now I
can go you know that we had, yeah that he
had we won this race, and now he could, you know,
go on.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
It's such an awesome kind of gift that you gave
back to him for doing everything though.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, I mean, but it was bittersweet for everybody else,
you know. I mean, yeah, there was no big price
ceremony like they have now, because we had everything was
delayed and now put it on top of Milwaukee. It
was me Rick and coming Cogan you know, in back
of the golf club. That was that was my that
was my banquet, right and uh and you know, of course, uh,

(29:56):
you know, Jim was Jim would end up dying nine
days after the race, and you know, so and for us,
you know, of course there's a lot of people thinking
what's the future it would be with that, right, I'm
Jim And luckily, you know, the people at redrid Fins,
which was Jim's company, there was a lot of great

(30:18):
support there. Jim's wife, great support, Steve Horn, you know,
everybody was like, okay, you know, we had a commandment
with blud Weiser, so we were going to raise the
rest of that year. But winning that race is what
really started the championship run. And we would win five
more races that year after Andy, so we win six
and all in the at that time, I think there's

(30:40):
maybe about fourteen races, So that's amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
So cecling back to the winning it as a team owner,
I'm winning it as a driver.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Oh yeah. So, I mean you think you know what
winning the five hundred does for you as a driver,
but you really don't know until it happens. And I'll
tell you, I mean, it changes your life both personally
and professionally. You know, and uh and so from from
a driver, he has such a huge impact on the

(31:11):
person the driver that you've got this win under your
belt and it describes you. And you know, I'm I'm
always introduced. I've never introduced as the three time IndyCar champion.
I'm always introduced as in nineteen eighty six, eighty five
hundred champion. And oh yeah, by the way, he won
three championships, which to me was a lot more difficult, right,

(31:33):
But that's the impact of or I've won four times
in a row of Laguna Sick and I've never introduced
as the fourth time the going Sega winner. And that's
just the impact. As an owner, it's different because you know,
it's more about the team, and it's more and the driver,
you know, personally as the owner of the team or
co owner of the team in this case, yeah, it's great,

(31:56):
but really the focus is on the driver and on
the individ within the team. And so I mean, I
think it's in some respects it's more satisfying to win
the race as an owner because you truly do appreciate
everything that goes into it, you know, when you're a driver,
you know, yeah, maybe you do. I'm sure, you talk
about you know, couldn't do without my team and blah

(32:17):
blah blah. But you know every driver would also tell you, well,
you know, if I hadn't been in the car, wouldn't one.
So you know, there's that ego that you got. That
guy in the car has got to have a woman
has to have an ego, and so in any event,
it's very satisfying to win it. You know, it's a
huge challenge, so difficult, and you only get one shot

(32:39):
out of the year, you know, so if you don't
make it this year, you got to wait three hundred
and sixty four days till the next next opportunity. So
it's I would just tell you, you know, organizationally and everything,
it's it's very rewarding as an owner, but it's a
very different feeling compared to a driver.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, that's why I asked, because I would imagine that
it would be. It's like a different set of emotions.
So talking about ownership, like, obviously you had the amazing
career that you had, you won the championship like three times,
am I right? And then how did the transition come
from driving to team ownership and the decision to retire

(33:18):
or not race anymore, and like how did that work?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
For years? I mean when people would say you're going
to start your own team already, like no way, you know,
why would I want to do that?

Speaker 1 (33:27):
You know?

Speaker 2 (33:28):
But I in nineteen eighty one or I'm sorry ninety one,
I was really kind of in between. I had driven
Fort Gallas Craco in eighty nine and ninety and ninety one.
They want me to come back, but I was working
on the Honda program at that time, and I really
wanted the latitude to kind of either take that where

(33:49):
I wanted to take it, or because I had talked
to a number of teams about either bringing me on
and I'd bring the Honda program with me, or I
talked to Roger Penske's sponsor and gunning Jim Williams, who
had been a supporter of the Penske Racing team, and
I talked to him about being my partner, coming and

(34:12):
joining me and starting my own team, and you know,
we met several times. It never happened, but but I
wanted that latitude and I and the freedom to kind
of go where I wanted to go. And I really
couldn't find it, but I did that. I wanted this
really because I want control over my future. And I
had seen a lot of drivers who were in their

(34:32):
forties at that time, you know, really feel that they
were retired before they should have been, you know, that
somebody else was making that decision, and they really became
embittered to a large degree. Yeah, And I thought, God,
what a horrible thing to invest yourself in this sport
as deeply as you do for all those years, and

(34:55):
then to be angry at it at the end of
the end. You know, I just thought that I and
imagining worse well as it was things I ended up
having to go to. I did a deal, a one
year deal with Pat Patrick, and he had good you know,
he had Jim McGee. Pat had had very successful teams.
But Pat had run a foul of the Illmore engine people.

(35:17):
And when he went to Alfa Romeo as the engine supplier,
and Alpha had somehow gotten their hands on one of
the Olmore engines, so you know, they could kind of
reverse engineer it if they wanted to. And so Pat
was unable to get the Olmoor engine, which was the
engine to have at the time, and the sponsor, which
was Miller Brewing Company, had made and made it a

(35:41):
prerequisite that they had to have illmore engines because they'd
suffered through the ALFRO program for a couple of years. Well, anyway,
he wouldn't get it. And the guy was head of
advertising marketing, and Miller came to me and he said, well,
why don't you start the team? Why didn't she start
your own team? We'll sponsor you, right, Okay, Well I

(36:02):
hadn't really thought of that. That maybe happened a little
sooner than I thought it would, but you know, they
made a long term commitment to me and Pat. You know,
it was a great gentleman about he understood, and uh.
Ended up basically we bought the assets. Me and Carl Hogan,
who became my partner in the first few years, bought

(36:24):
the assets of Patrick Racing and we had a ready
made team. Great people in that organization. Scott Ramke, who
would be my right hand man for many years, was
in that group at the time. And uh, and of
course uh, now we have Miller.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
And of course, so we ended up winning the championship
in nineteen eight. In the next year, which was very
satisfying to me because a lot of people would tell
you you can't drive. You can't drive and and and
and you know, win races and own the team at
the same time. Well, we proved them wrong, which was great,

(37:01):
and of course that ended up being my last championship.
But that's the start, and it really was kind of
a trying to, you know, make all these pieces fit,
and the key one being Honda, which we would then
bring into IndyCar in nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
So was it hard to do the team ownership and
leadership role as well as the driver roller at the
same time.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Uh No, I don't think so. I mean, Carl handled
the finances to a large degree in terms of, you know,
just the budgets. And as I said earlier, the key
you know I handled the sponsors really was aside from driving,
you know, I was you know, we had other sponsors
besides Miller, several of whom had had relationships with me prior.
But once again, as I mentioned earlier about people we had,

(37:46):
it was a great group of people. Jim Prescott, who
still works for me and had started with me in
nineteen seventy nine in canam he was the crew chief.
He had Scott Remke, who was kind of the right
hand guy to Jim McGee. We had Jim McGee who
was really the team manager. I mean it was a
We had two engineers from England that we were on

(38:08):
on contract that did aerrow work for the team, So
I mean we it was. It was. It was a
single car team played with a tight knit team and
many of the people that were in that team are
still in racing today. In any event, we and we
went with a very bulletproof combination of the Chevy Ilmore
engine and the Lola chassis and it just, you know,

(38:29):
everything everything just worked. You know. When I was there
on a race weekend, I you know, I really was
there as a driver, although you know you always have
things on the side, you know, their owner related, but
I could, I could really foot when when I got
on the race car, I could focus on being a driver.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
If anybody else won either a championship or the five
hundred as a driver and a team miner, or are
you the only one?

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Well in terms of championships, you know a j point
you know myself. I think Parnelli Jones was the other
one who won. I guess that would be as drivers
who were then became owners. There's three of us who
have won the five hundred. That's really so not manny.

(39:14):
And a lot of people own in the earlier years,
a lot of people, even even Mario owned his own
team in the late sixties mid sixties or so, in
part because that was kind of the way you had
to do it. But you know, a lot of people
didn't like the idea of being responsible to a team,
to people everything else.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
You're all scare me, like, what if you don't get
this once is that you think you're going to get
and you still have to pay the people? That's terrifying.
Do you think that being a driver and then subsequently
owning a team, do you think that taught you all
the business stuff that you needed to do with the
dealerships and everything else later on, or do you do
you think that like gave you an education in real

(39:55):
life kind of thing or was there things that you
realized that you didn't know? Still?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Oh, well, I think for sure. I was always very
I was always very involved in the business side of racing.
I e. Sponsors, going on finding my own sponsors. I
mean I always thought that if I found the sponsorship,
then I could kind of go where I wanted to go. Yeah,
that I wasn't dependent. And if you look at many
of those sponsors that I've had over the years, that's

(40:21):
that's they came from, like the Miller sponsorship deal or
the red VERI fin I mean, these were all personal
relationships that grew into commercial relationships, you know. So I
was always interested in the business side of things. There's
no quator's no question that you know, probably when we
set the team up with Jim Truman in nineteen eight

(40:42):
to eighty one. Actually, now you're in there putting budgets together.
You're in there, you know, how many spare parts can
you buy? How many this that you know? I mean,
you know now you have an awareness for oh yeah,
that stuff does cost money, you know, and you can
only do as much as you can with the money
you have, right, So I think that's, uh, that's where

(41:04):
it all happened. But I always had that that business
interest in motorsport anyway, and it just kind of yeah,
what do you think off from there?

Speaker 1 (41:13):
The biggest misconception that fans have about running and owning
an indie car team, for example, what do you think
it is?

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Like?

Speaker 1 (41:21):
What would you like to impart to the fans about
how difficult it is or what it takes or.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, well, it's just just a tremendous amount of work.
I mean it's a ton of work, you know, you know,
as you say, I mean, it's all reliant on how
much sponsorship you can attract. I mean, there's you know,
there are times when you have to if you're short,
you know, you know, you have two choices, either shut
the thing down or you you know, you get into
your back pocket and bring out your wallet, right, And

(41:50):
so it's it's uh, but it's just a lot of work.
And uh, but you know it's not it's not five
days a week. It's not nine to five, twenty four
to seven, three sixty five. And that's just the way
it is.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
I think you must have had so much experience with
like team culture, from going you know, through everything and
then creating your own team, and even I've seen it
over over the years, like how Railed or Roll's developed
team culturally wise, and how much of a difference that makes.
And I guess that circles back to your comment about

(42:29):
people like it must be so difficult to put it's
like a puzzle putting all the different people in the
right places to create that that you know what you
want to create, but like if one of them is wrong,
then it can set the whole thing off.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I mean, that must be so fragile right now, because
you can you can attract all the best guys in
the you know, in the paddock, and yet they all
get together and the yeah, and you know, you're supposed
to say, hey, all in this together, we're all going
where we want to go, right and yeah, well yeah,

(43:04):
and so it's I mean, it can be very frustrating
at times. You know. I always believe that you lead
by example. Yeah, and if you if you provide that,
you know that leadership and you're there to be counted
on and you're there good times and bad and and uh,
you know, you invest in people, you invest in you know,

(43:26):
if you look at the building we've recently built in Indianapolis.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
As I tell people, if anybody questioned Mike Lanigan or
my commitment to motorsport, I think that building pretty much
answers that question, you know. And we just try to
create the best possible environment for our team. And you
know it's worked at times, it hasn't worked as often
as I would like, but we continue to you know, tweak,
you know, bring in the elements and shop newer elements.

(43:54):
We continue to look for that magic. You know, how
do you how do you create these the successful organization?
And you know last year we brought Jay Fryan and
Jay's fantastic and I think it is a huge plus
for us. And he's got great respect in the Paddock area.
So you know, it's you know, it's like anything. Everybody
looks at who's there and they decide, oh, yeah, I

(44:16):
want to be a part of that, right or or
you know, or maybe they just think about, well, what's
you know, the money, Yeah, what's the money? And some
you know, oftentimes I prefer not to hire people that
are just in it for the money, because they they'll
leave you just for the money too. You want people
who are who are sold, you know, who believe in
in what you're trying to do.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
It has to be like a family.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, it really does.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
We're going to take a quick break, but we will
be right back. Welcome back to Toronto Therapy. So is
that in part why you moved to Indy from Columbus
to Indy because you were thinking that there's more people

(45:03):
and more indycop people in Indy and so yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, I mean there's good good aspects of that, and
there's not there's there's bad. You know, it doesn't mean
it doesn't take much for somebody to leave you when
you're all in Indy because the guys who rolls a
toolbox down the street right have options, you know, whereas
if you're you know, when we were in Columbus, uh,

(45:27):
you know, in IndyCar racing when I first came in,
you had Craco and Los Angeles. Penske was in Reading, Pennsylvania,
Carl Hawes was in Chicago. We were in Columbus. I mean,
people were kind of all over the place, and it
was really hard for people to leave that, you know,
because it wasn't just roll in your your toolbox down
the street.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Did your issues out with each other?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
I think it's like NASCAR, same thing holds true. And
and you know Charlotte. You know, if you're in NASCAR,
you're in Charlotte and that's good and that's bad. You know,
So it's you know, it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
How did you meet Lanigan and your current partners?

Speaker 2 (46:04):
And then Mike? I actually, uh, I known Mike because
he was always involved in Indye Lights with a driver
named Eric Bachelor. Oh wow, yeah, and uh and you
know then when Graham went to Form Atlantic, he went
to drive for Bachelor and and Mike was a co
owner with Bachelor and uh yeah. And then then Graham

(46:27):
went to Newman Hawes Lanigan racing in any Car and
Mike was there. So I got to spend a lot
more time with Mike and just learned what an impressive
guy he is. And uh and soh uh the yeah,
David Letterman. Letterman came from I was on the show

(46:48):
and after I went in eighty six. Yeah, I didn't
know that he had I didn't know he was from Indianapolis.
I didn't know he was a huge Indy car guy. Uh.
He used to come to races with us, and then
one day he said, you know, if you're ever looking
for a partner, I'd love to join you. So at
the end of nineteen ninety five that opportunity came. So
David and I've been together since nineteen and the ninety five,

(47:10):
So we're going on or what is that forty forty
years or thirty years.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
One of the common themes I'm hearing from this conversation
is that the relationships that you've created and managed to
hold on to you this entire time has basically been
the fundamentals for everything that you've done. Like you haven't
had people come and go. You've had these relationships and
created these relationships, and they've like created what you have

(47:37):
now to you.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, I mean we've lost people at times that you
know it was I mean, that's racing, you know, it's
just the nature of the beast. You hate to see people.
Good people go. Yeah, some people you don't mind seeing go.
Some people you mind a lot, right, depending on who
it is. But but you know, you just keep you know.
It's kind of interesting. In our dealerships, we have a

(47:59):
pro or we have a thing called reach, which means
Ray Hall employees always come home. And that's some when
you lose a salesman, right, he goes to the next
guy down the street, comes the guys waving my raine.
And then a year or two later he's back because
you know what, the grass wasn't greener over there, right,
And so you know, even are sure we have a
couple of guys that have come back to us. I'm

(48:21):
really pleased that they have because I was not happy.
I was sad when they left loved us, you know,
and uh so they're back and then you know this
has happened on more than one occasion, so you know,
it's all again. It's all about creating that environment within
our organization that people were people want to be a
part of that. So we worked very hard on creating
that environment.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
So I know, I don't have you for very much longer,
and I want to be completely selfish here and get
the driver related questions in. I'm going to start with
Graham because that's the that's the most obvious one. Have
you I mean, now it's a different question because obviously
you guys have been rubbing along together for her for
a while now. He's been professional for Kraiki.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
One time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, like at the beginning when he said, Daddy, I
want to be a race club driver. But we like, yes,
this is awesome and I'm going to help you and
I'm gonna or we like, oh god, I wish i'd
given you some golf clubs or a tennant tracket.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yeah, well, and I had. I had given him golf clubs,
and he was good. He was a good golfer.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I was not supportive. I was not in favor of
him driving, Yeah, because I really felt that I didn't
want him to feel like he had to or I
didn't want him to feel like, you know, there's enough
pressure on you as it is to carry that, right,
and it's like Al Junior with Al senior, Michael with Mario.
Uh uh, it's it's uh Marco for that matter. I mean, yeah,

(49:48):
other advantages. Yeah, there's advantages, but there's also a lot
of expect lots of expectation, uh maybe demands of things
that you have to deal with. And and so I
never really reminded him to make his you know, his
own footprints, so to speak. But it was clear, you know,
when he was six seven years old, it was clear
that you know, he was like me as a six

(50:10):
seven year old in terms of cars. It was cars, cars, cars.
And I mean if you look at what he's doing
with his business now also, I mean, what is it,
it's cars, cars, cars, right.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
But also he got his business acumen from you, obviously.
I mean he's been really successful at doing that. And honestly,
it's impressive how young he was when he started.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Well, I I give him a tremendous amount of credit
because you know, he's a smart guy. And and he works.
He's got a huge work ethic, which I think is
so critical in racing, let alone anywhere else. And so
I think that you know, he had all that stuff up.
The examples of our dealerships, you know, the example of

(50:49):
what I did in my career, where you know, a
lot of guys don't worry about what's going to happen,
you know, in part two of their lives until they
get there, and then it's like, oh god, now what
whereas you know, whereas you know he I mean, he
got into his business as a teenager and I thought
he was crazy. But anyway, but any time he's yeah,

(51:11):
he's he's uh, you know, him driving for Newman Hawes,
you know that's a big deal. Him vying for Chip Canassi,
that's a big deal. And uh and then coming to
us and yeah, my only regret is we haven't given
him as much success as he's probably deserved. But h
or put him, you know, put the right places together.
But you know, we never give up. And and there's

(51:33):
no question that you give him a good car, he'll
be up front every time, and as he showed last
year on a number of occasions. So do you think
these Oh god. You know, that's a that's a good
question because I don't I have you know, I don't know.
I mean you got to believe that, you know, I
believe there's going to be some expectation there. Just where

(51:54):
is it? Kind of is it drag racing or is
it you know, sports car racing or Indy car race? Seen?
My sense is that I doubt they will, But what
do I know?

Speaker 1 (52:06):
It is yet to be seen. What do you think?
I mean, you've worent with some absolute legends, and you've
raced against some absolute legends. What do you think that
they're really good drivers?

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Having common I think racing. To be successful in racing,
I mean yeah, I mean do you have to have
some skills? Yeah? Do you have to have this, you know,
going fast not have to bother you? Yeah? But it's
again to me, it's hard work. I think it's intelligence.
You know. The guys that win all the time, are
they're smart, They're not making mistakes, They're not you know,

(52:37):
they're staying focused. You know, staying focused. And it's one
thing you've seen when you start racing, you know, it's
hard to focus for twenty minutes and then it becomes
hard to focus for an hour race. Then it's a
two hour race. Now you're an India, it's three and
a half hour race. Right to me, it's all about
you know, the guys that I have always been successful

(53:00):
are really the ones that just mentally could deal with
it all lap after a lap after a lap, and
whether that was the discipline to do it, whether that
was the competitive drive to do it, whether it was
whatever it might be, but I really think that it was.
It's much more of a mental sport than it is
a physical sport. And that's why you see, you know,

(53:24):
I think like Scott Dixon's really smart guy. You know,
he knows knows exactly how to get those fuel numbers
that he has to get and can do it and
still go fast, and not everybody many people can do that.
So I really do think it's the mental side is
oftentimes not even mentioned, and yet to me, that's the
most critical aspect of it I agree on.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
I think it's all mental, and I think confidence and
everything plays such a big role. How do you as
a team owner, how do you manage their expectations and
the personalities and the drives and how they mesh together
and you do it just drawing from experience.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Well, I think you know the people you're looking for.
You know, you see you know other teams with them,
but you see them at other teams and how they respond,
how they work within it, and you know the you
know the you know, the pipeline's pretty good about Oh
this guy is really good here, but he's not you know, anybody.
There's a lot of people that can go fast. There's

(54:23):
a lot of people can't win racist and there's a
big difference between the two. And so you know, you
just see how people respond, react, behave handle themselves. And
the ones that are really professional, those are the ones
you want. Those are the guys that will deliver the
goods for girls that mare.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah, do you think that. I remember back in the day,
all the drivers have personalities, right, like, and that's what
drew the fans, Like you were an individual and you
had a personality, and like people either loved you hated you,
and it was the same light across the board. Whereas
now I feel like there's a lot of bought drivers
out there. They are like cookie cutter and they don't

(55:04):
have that, And I think that might be a little
bit of the reason why the sponsorship kind of landscape
has changed as well, because you're not buying into like
an individual as much. And I think that I think
racing would maybe benefit from bringing back personalities such as
yours and Graham's a great example, right. But then there

(55:24):
are a lot of European drivers, let's say me not
included obviously, but are very much just you could substitute
them for another driver. It's just a different name and
it's the same kind of person.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Well, yeah, it's interesting today. You know, when I was driving,
you know, there were many drivers that I wouldn't have
a hot dog with, you know, I mean it was just,
you know, there was there was one guy that I
you know, and it's kind of I don't understand how
because we were so different, But there's one guy that

(55:58):
I really kind of had a personal relafationship with, and
that was Al Junior. Uh, even before we became teammates. Uh,
there's I don't know why. And again, you know, Al
from Albuquerque in the desert, He's this, he's that. I'm
from Chicago, I went to college, so totally different people,
and yet somehow there was something that we clicked between us.

(56:21):
And really he was about the only guy and and so,
and the rivalries that were created by this lack of
you know, you know, especially in the you know, the
era prior to mine, and guys are doing sprint car
races and you know, dirt races and then they're going
IndyCar races and the racing every weekend and they're you know,
they're having fights, they're doing this and that, Like you

(56:43):
say that to developed this these person and you look
at A. J. Foyt, right, Yes, yeah, the guy. The
guy's a hard ass, right and you know and uh
and you know then you had him and Mario and
they didn't like each other. You know, they were super
competitive against each other. Now they guess, I think they
like each other a lot more. But Bobby Unswer was
a character and a half, right, and some guys were

(57:06):
okay with that, and a lot of guys weren't, you know.
So it's it's, yeah, you all see that. Everybody's like,
you know, they're they're hugging, they're holding his hands, they're kissing.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Yeah, I mean, bring personalities. I would love to see
it go back because I think then the fans and
the sponsors get behind those personalities and like your team
A J. Or your team Bobby or you know.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's no question that there's
a rivalry between myself and and the Andretti's, you know,
and uh, there are other rivalries. So and maybe it
was Michael instead of Mario, maybe it was both whatever,
but you know, uh, you know, to me, you know,
when you beat Mario Andretti on a given day, that
you'd really done something special because I always considered Mario

(57:54):
to be if out the best or one of the best.
And yeah, so it's just different today. And I do
think that demands are so much different also today than
they were. They were always it was always demanding being
a driver in a racing program with sponsors and everything else,
but it's it's really demanding these days. And you're like,

(58:15):
and you know, you gotta you know, you got it.
If you're not doing it, if you're not doing an
appearance somewhere, you're plugging, typing away on your phone with
you with your followers and all this other I mean,
it just goes, you know, it goes. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
So the other thing that I think has changed so
much that you've been like a witness to is technology
and since back then to now the amount of money
and everything, I mean, damp has cost like one hundred
grand or something crazy now and the amount that technology
has changed, Like for you to stay on the forefront
of that, is it a daily struggle to keep up

(58:50):
with everything new coming out?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
It is, it is, and it's uh. You know, of course,
in any car is really your damper programs, right, those
are the only things that you can really personally affect
or create an advantage over others. So you throw tremendous
amounts of money at people or at the equipment or
whatever you need the testing equipment in order to create
the best system since everything else is pretty spec. You know,

(59:16):
when I drove, there wasn't a lot that a spec
and if anything really maybe even the engines weren't because
you could build your own engines when I first started racing.
But it's it's and it's so close today because of
that lep reliance on spec kind of philosophy. So the
differences are small and yet they're big. You know, small
differences make big big change. Small changes make big differences,

(59:39):
and so it's it's so close. It's crazy, you know
how close it is. Even on road courses, you know
where you have a road America four mile long track
and the difference in the grid is like ten a
tenth of a second over four miles. I mean that's nothing.
That's nothing, right, So it's I mean, that's kind of
what makes the racing so exciting because it you can

(01:00:00):
come from anywhere on the grid just about and be
competitive in a race. But yeah, the sophistication, that's the
biggest change. You know. You know when I said when
I first started, we might have six guys on an
indiecar team, and here we are now it's you know,
if you have a three car team, you've got one
hundred people there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
It's been honest. Yeah, it's totally crazy, Bobby. I could
talk to you all day. I still have so many
questions about NASCAR and women are racing and all these things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Better.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
It means you'll have to come back on exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
It'll do far too. We'll do far too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I would love that so much. Thank you so much
for taking the time to talk to me. You are
my hero. I hope that you have a great rest
of the week and I wish you all the luck
in the twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Thank you, Thanks very much'm Mery Christmas to you and
your family.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Thanks Bobby, thanks for listening to Throttle Therapy. We'll be
back next week with more updates and more overtakes. We
want to hear from you. Leave us a review in
Apple Podcasts and tell us what you want to talk about.
It might just be the topic for our next show.
Throttle Therapy is hosted by Katherine Legg. Our executive producer

(01:01:06):
is Jesse Katz, and our supervising producer is Grace Fuse.
Listen to Throttle Therapy on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
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