December 23, 2025 • 44 mins
On this episode of Throttle Therapy, Katherine Legge is joined by Mike Shank of Meyer Shank Racing, to explore his journey from attending races at Mid-Ohio as a child to becoming a successful team owner. Shank shares his experiences in racing, including his early career in Formula Atlantics and his transition to sports car racing. They also discuss the impact of the IMSA-Grand-Am merger, the importance of charters in motorsports, and the challenges facing NASCAR.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an Iheartwoman's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can
find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to this week's
episode of Throttle Therapy with Me Catherine Legg. And this week,
(00:30):
I am honored to be joined by one of my
former bosses. I would also like to call him a friend.
He's somebody who I very much look up to. He's
fought his way through the sport and done everything the
right way, the proper way, the hard way, and I
think his success has been a testament to all of
the hard work and hours that he's spent in racing.
(00:52):
He's definitely got the heart of a racer and I
am very proud to welcome Mike Shank to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Hey Mike, Hey Kapin.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thanks for joining me. I know that you're based up
there in Ohio, and I know it's that time of
year that it's particularly miserable, But is there you just
your love of racing would just keep you in Ohio
for forever?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well that's yeah, kind of yes. So this is where
it all started for me Middle Ohio, specifically when in
the late seventies, when my dad started taking me to
races when I was seven or eight something like that,
nine and going to Middle Ohio every weekend with him.
He was a crew guy on a some kind of
(01:36):
production car like an MG or Fiat or something like that,
and that's what got me early on at the track.
And I loved it. And I was a car person anyways.
As a three year old, I could listen to the
car engine and know what they were V eight or
straight sixes or four cylinders or you know modified way. Yeah,
I just had it was just it's just kind of
(01:56):
bred into me, you know. But the passion though, the
for racing started with my dad, like a lot of us,
like you do with your dad, and it just couldn't
I couldn't escape it. I tried it with boats for
a while. I still love boats today, but I tried
it with boats for a while back then, and water
skiing and all kinds of stuff, but nothing got me
(02:18):
anywhere close to the rush I got from driving race cars.
So it all started in Ohio, Central Ohiso, and I
just committed to staying here because my mom was here,
My dad passed away a long time ago, and my
mom was here and I just didn't want to leave
her to be honest and take care of her, so
I stayed here to do that. But in the meantime
the business was building, the race and the driving and
(02:40):
then the eventually the preparation shop.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Did your mom light racing as well or was it
just a dad thing?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
She tolerated it, you know, she wasn't into it like
me and my dad were, but she did come. She
supported it, she did. You know, my parents were very
modest folks. We weren't poor by any means, but we
could no way and you can relate to this more
than anyone. We could no way afford to do what
we're doing, not even close even back then. I mean,
if we you know, we spend one hundred thousand on
(03:07):
a set of brake pads this year. You know, one
hundred gram would one hundred graham would have gotten me
through a whole year of Pro Formula two thousand or
Pro Sports two thousand. You know, it's just the perspective
is so different now. Well, the one thing that did
teach me is that and this sounds so bullshit cliche,
but anything is possible. And again you know this, Everything
(03:31):
is possible. You just got to figure out a way
to make it happen. And I never gave that up.
I took a dog to a bone. I just did
not let off that bone ever, and in eventually it
really came around for us.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So you started by running like Formula Atlantics and stuff
in s SCA right, yep, yep, because I have here
one of your biggest achievements was you won Novice of
the Year at this SCCA Ohio Racing nine eighty nine.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, that's like, that's like saying you want a blue
ribbon at a Pyicon. You know, no, it's not.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I think it's lovely. You won the nineteen ninety six
Players Atlantic CT Championship as well, So you weren't You
were a good driver.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well back then I thought I was really really good, right,
I thought I And by the way, I ended up
doing one irl race in ninety seven eight I can't remember. Yes,
that was yeah, that was the top for me. But
but since.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Then an Oldsmobile, folks, no old mobile.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It is my father's old mobile. As it turned out, though,
on the driving skills side, I was average, maybe a
little above average when I was driving a lot and
driving cars for other people, but not compared to even
you know, all the people, including yourself, that I've come
in touch with later in life, were just just better.
And my problem for me personally wasn't a physical thing. Ever,
(04:56):
it was a mental thing. And for me, multitasking at
a super high level and being able to take one
more input when I'm already kind of maxed, that's just
my brain. I would I'd fuck up and I'd be
in a wall, or I'd spin, or I'd lose any brain.
It's a weird thing mentally for me, on multitasking extreme conditions,
(05:18):
I kind of control the leite in my brain sometimes
and for lack of better word, I lose my way
and it destroyed my race, my driving, my racing driving.
Uh thankfully, you know, I didn't have any other way
to make a living, so I had to figure something out,
and the car preparation site in parallel was coming along,
and that obviously dominated and took off after a while.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Did you go to college or have any aspirations to
be like a fireman or an economist or anything random
when you were in school.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Katherine, I graduated in drinking beer and driving cars and
race girls. Right, Like, I had a one point eight
one point eight great point average. I'm not kidding one
point eight, so there was a zero college. But what
I had was a work ethic, and I went to
work for one and a half years as a ligne
(06:08):
mechanic at a Maser dealership. That's the only job I've
ever had outside of racing, and that was in the
late eighties, and it was enough to get a loan
for my first swift sports car sports youth outand okay,
and I got a load in and I destroyed that.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Car by the way, so well, no, and you didn't
have the money to rebuild it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I'm guessing it basically bankrupted me. But we kept going.
You know, we did never fail, even when Fay was
all over me.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We never stopped keep on keeping on. That's the same
story as me, I feel like. But it surprises me
that you say that you can't multitask in your brain,
because I've seen you do it so many times, and
it seems like with running the business anyway, like you've
got all of these bulls in the air, and you're
a master at keeping everything going and knowing what everybody's
(06:54):
doing and like so it would seem like it would
be your forte, not something that would we'll make you
a driver.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
But I you know, not all of people who see this,
but I've developed lips in these old paper lists. The
way I found that I have to deal with that
problem I have. I have to do one thing at
a time, and I've got to mark it off when
I got it done. And that's the way for me
that I can. I can multitask as long as I
keep track of the multitasks. I'm not doing it by memory.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So I'm the same.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, got to have it right.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, I'm the same with the writing it down though,
Like even my diary is a paper diary because I
have it on my phone too, but it's like a
visual thing to me, like if I see it in
black and white like a list, it can't be on
my phone or on my computer. It has to be
right Now.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The truly great people at what we do in our sport,
the truly ones that are making millions a year, they
have an ability in my opinion, and you're in that
group too. You have an ability to do it at
a high intensity level. Now I'm not talking just about
if hiring people and working with people. I'm talking about
when your life is on the line driving a race
car and making decisions to advance your position or the
(08:03):
team or whatever you're doing. That's where I really failed, right,
and or didn't do as well I think I should
have so. But now, but now, seeing all these folks
that I've worked with over the years, I've seen how
possible it is, and it's a cool thing.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So you were driving, and in parallel you were setting
these cars up, and then at some point, and I've
got it written down here, here we go, nineteen ninety
nine you were Sam Hornish's car, and it was that
you were first fora and too running the team.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
No so night well in a pro level. Okay, in
ninety six when I did Toyota Atlant which is a
pro you know, seer of wrong like Indy Lights, right,
I started in Atlantic then and I ran myself and
one other guy in an Atlantic car and that was
a start in ninety six, and then we built the
Atlantic team up tour in ninety nine. We were really
(08:55):
damn good at it, and Dale, who you worked with
a lot, was my lead, right, and we built the
Atlantic side up to a point where guys like Sam
would come to us and drive for us, right, and
he did a hell, he did a great job for us.
And but the tough thing about that is a call.
And this just came up in the NASCAR trial yesterday.
(09:18):
The idiot prosecutor or whoever's on twenty three eleven side
said that in nineteen ninety six the split made it
better for Indy car, you know it just the split
actually drove me out of the drove me out of
open wheel racing. And that's why in two thousand and
four I ended up in sports car racing because of
(09:40):
the split. It affected so many people in our It
just the whole, the whole. When they split in ninety six,
it diverted everybody and everything and all the assets it
takes to do it and the people that care, the fans.
It split everybody and created two devisive and if it
happens in NASCAR, by the way, it will be disaster.
(10:01):
So my point in this, I hope you're right. But
in my point in this is that in my open
wheel career was all open wheel, open wheel until two
until two thousand and two, three I lost my Atlantic deal.
Our team did terrible that year. The parents that were
paying us to run. Their kids literally left us midyear.
It was terrible. Didn't know what we're going to do.
(10:24):
This is three and picked up pick up the day
Dale and I were the only people working here. We
ended up scrambling, just did some odd oddball race card
subcontract stuff and in four I discovered this thing called
Daytona Prototype and took every penny I had. We refinanced
(10:45):
the house. Jim France helped me. We bought a Dorin
DP and that's what really set the trajectory or on today.
That means we went away from open Wheel, which was
my true love, the Indianapolis five hundred, and the way
I could stay in racing at that point was to
go sports car racing. And it was the absolute move.
(11:06):
You literally are sitting at a fork in the road
and you don't know what the hell to do. That
was it that that was literally it, and we picked
the right fork and we got really lucky that way,
and it led to all these great professional level networking
that you know is so important to kind of we're
at today.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Really So was that during the IMPS Grandam split as well?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
There that was yes, So I was on the Grand
Am side with Jim Franz, that's Daytona Prototype, that's DP.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, because I raced in two thousand and five, I
raced a DP cor for Robinson Racing at Daytona and
that was the last time I remember driving in Grandam.
And then I went back to Open Wheel. Actually I
think I went, Yeah, I did, and then I went
to Europe. But then all of a sudden, when I
came back, it was INSE and so I didn't really
(11:58):
know how that joint and didn't go back together. And
I remember how Champcar and IndyCar joined and got back together,
but I didn't remember or I didn't really know. It
wasn't part of it how IMSA and Grandam didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, and thirteen or fourteen, you know, we got it
all back together. Jim bought Don out your old boss
and that helped, and that really set the path for
sportscar racing today and how incredibly healthy it is getting
yet again, you had two sports cars series, two IndyCar series,
didn't work, They get back together. Two sports car series
don't work, they get back and we're talking about North
(12:33):
America area and then we're back together again. It really
is driving the popularity and the you know strength of
IMSA today, you know, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
A fan base because people know that it's the premier
sports car series. And in North America now there's only
three series, right, there's IndyCar, there's NASCAR and there and
there's EMS and so they have a home rather than
it being split.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back. Welcome back to Toronto Therapy.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So going back to the NASCAR stuff real quick, because
I've been following that and obviously that's a well that
I'm now entrenched in. Do you think that all the
IndyCar teammates such as yourself are looking at this thinking
whatever happens from this will then maybe flow over to
IndyCar as well.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
No, not really. You know, we have for you know,
we have franchises charters in IndyCar now, Jim Meyer and
I own two of them, right, So we have a
version of what a version of what they do. It's
not totally the same, especially the way it's funded. I
don't want to see for the sake of motorsports, you know, overall,
especially with drive to survive in the Formula One, popularity
(13:48):
gain in the last four years, and I feel like
that has helped all of us rise the tide on
all the boat's roads. I think this has potential to
hurt the whole world in motorsports if NASCAR.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Does even one.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I don't know about F one, probably not F one,
but certainly everything that we do, he will have not
a good effect on. Now, you can argue it the
other way. You could say, hey, listen, if NASCAR goes
away or the version it is today that is so
dominant in North America, maybe that could actually help IndyCar
in sports car. I don't look at it that way though,
I really don't. I look at it we need to
(14:27):
make IndyCar better in sportscar better, and we need to
focus on that and not someone else's failure or problems.
I'm a diehard supporter of the NASCAR side of this,
and we could go down that rabbit hole forever. There's
lots of reasons. Yeah, Jim front, Yeah, my loyalty to
Jim is be here. But take that to the side.
(14:47):
You just look at the facts of what's going on here.
I think they're playing with fire here that Michael Jordan
doesn't even realize that could have a knockoff effect of
I mean, you think about so many people that could
be affected by NASCAR coming apart or really changing the
families the crew, the families of the crew, that the
amount of people that industry feeds. And I saw the
(15:09):
effect that had an IndyCar when IndyCar split. So if
the courts forced NASCAR to diverse, diverge and another series
is great, it will destroy stock car racing in my
opinion in North America based on just what's happening, I
would what's happened to sports car?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah? Do you think though that there's a real chance
of that happening? In my opinion, I think, you know,
if NASCAR win, I think front row and twenty three
eleven probably go away, and that opens up charts for
other people, and there's plenty of people who want them.
And if twenty three to eleven win, then I think
it changes the charter system for everybody. I didn't think
(15:46):
that having a separate series would be a viable option
really because NASCAR owns so many of the tracks that
we raised that how would that even work.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
If they If the course determined that it's monopolistic in
what they're doing, they courts could force them to sell
the tracks or do some version of how they own
it now and listen, like they could just pull the
charter off. You could just NASCAR race without charters, and
let me tell you from a business perspective, that is
playing with fire. Charters are the fuel for our world now.
(16:18):
They're not perfect. They're not perfect in anycar. They're not
perfect in NASCAR. Everyone will tell you that part. But
it's a basis that we all can go forward in business.
Michael and the furniture or front Row argue that it's
not fair to me the way I've grown up out
of the dirt to the top here and I know
what they have to raise compared to what we have
(16:39):
to raise an IndyCar. They have it beyond good. They
have to raise less money than we do to do
it because of the charter system. They more races and
more and more TV numbers, more people, more eyeballs, they
hear what I'm saying. NASCAR have to raise less money
per year per car than we do an IndyCar because
(17:00):
of the charter in the financial gain all of the
owners get from the chart.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Have you ever thought about going down the NASCAR route
and trying a team in NASCAR all the time? Would
you still consider it, Like, depending on what happens with
this court case, obviously, but if a Chelter came up
for sale and you're like, screw it, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Obviously, Yes, this needs to settle down. It depends on
the economics. The economics of NASCAR, Michael says, doesn't work
when I look my math at it. If you are
a charter team, then that the model can easily work. Period. Like,
I don't know what you know, Denny. They came out
that Denny makes fourteen million a year. God love them
that god level. I wish that's not the new model.
(17:39):
I mean, he's the guy that deserves it. I'm not
arguing that. I'm just saying, when you have a fourteen
million dollar driver on your payroll, that's a hard not
to overcome percentage wise, to compare to operating the team. Right,
So Joe Gibbs chooses to have Denny because he's a
champion driver, Okay, great, you know or you know they're
paying babblah. I think five millionaire, which is a very
(18:01):
very good salary. He's worth it, got it. But you know,
like a lot of this is self driven. You know,
you want the best. You got to pay for the best.
I am such a believer in charters and what they
do for teams on the indy car side. We've already
seen it. How it's an increased starting bottom line value
of what we own compared to having twenty cents on
the dollar if we have to go to auction, if
(18:22):
we're done racing. I just think it's just a wonderful
place to be compared to where we were.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay, So I'm saying it here now. I'm Mike. You
come over to NASCAR agent, I will drive for you
and we'll live happily.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Ever, well, that's very possible, very possible, But unfortunately, unfortunately,
you know, I'm getting older in the it's weird, like
I'm getting older and the business is going better than
it ever has. I'm going the wrong. I got the
timing all weird now, so I don't know what I'm
going to do.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
No, that's the way it happens, and I actually want
to get okay, So I will get back to that now.
So you you really kind of took off as a
team from from the Grandam and then following imsidays because
you hooked up with Honda and Akira, you hooked up
with Jim Meyer. You hooked up with liber Liberty.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, yeah, the media.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And so it was like this snowball effect where as
soon as you and that's obviously how we know each
other because I drove for you for a few years
in the NSX and by the way, to this day,
still the best team that I've driven for.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Very kind you to say that.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
So, Christina, I've got a couple of really funny and
today es. Actually, So Christina and I were talking the
other day because we've become close friends when we stay
in touch, and we were obviously teammates yet she's great,
But we were talking about driving for you and like
how wonderful it was and how we had the best
car and we knew it always had the chance and
we knew that you believed in us and all the
things right like that we took for granted at the time.
(19:49):
I feel like, but isn't normal. And we were talking
about we've actually called it daddy issues now because we
were like when Mike was on the radio, you to
hear in his voice what he was thinking, like if
he was disappointed in you, if he was happy, if
you were doing a good job, like you didn't need
to tell us you're doing a good job. You could
(20:10):
just like you could tell from the radio communications. And
we were discussing it and we realized that we had
this in common, that we were really keen to impress
you and do a good job, so that on the
radio you were saying, yeah, a good job, and like
you were pleased with us. And so we decided that
you're the only team owner we've ever had, like Daddy
issues with.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, I don't know what that's good or but probably bad,
probably not good.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I think AJS probably would say the same thing. So
you've had so many great drivers drive for you. Yeah,
obviously apart from me, you had, you've had the Oz's
you've had, But these people are really really good people too,
like Oz and Justin and aj Like. If you look
at the list of drivers you've had, you've had some
of the best drivers to work with as well as
(20:53):
best drivers, And it makes me think, you know, you
must look back on all of those times with all
of this people, to Justin's and the ouses and everybody,
and just have an immense sense of pride that you
got to achieve what you did with those people.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
If you look at the core of all those people
you just listed in concluding yourself, we all came from
a very similar space how we were raised I'm guessing,
which was modest and had to fight for almost every
single thing we did in our life in racing, and
there's a commonality that bonds us all there. And also
(21:29):
I think I have a sense of people. I think
when I sit down with them and if we we
have a common I don't know what to say because
we're not we won't get we don't get pushed around,
and we get shoved around. But basically we're nice people
at the core. We're nice people. Well, we respect our elders,
our parents, we respect people that came before us. We
(21:52):
have this base thing and all those A lot of
those people you just mentioned are that way. And I
tell you the newer guys that I'm working with now,
Alex Blow, even Scott Dixon. Now these guys that you know, Nick,
you Yoli, you know, like these guys are all like
reasonable people to begin with. There's no there's no Prima Donna's,
there's no like they're they we all have this kind
(22:13):
of base, for the most part, commonalty. And that's what
I look back on and think about, how cool that was.
And I've had some characters too. We've had people that
have gone to prison, have people, We've had so many
characters that's over. You know. We had I Paul Tracy
for a couple of years, which was, you know, awesome,
you know, like I got great Paul stories. I really
(22:33):
actually really liked Paul characters, just true racing characters and
awesome people of the industry. I feel so lucky to
be able to the first famous person that I thought
almost blew me away, that ever called me was Johnny Rutherford.
And Johnny called me the old the old man. He
called me because he wanted me to and I did.
(22:55):
I ran his son. His name was John Rutherford. I'll
never forget that. I finally got to point in racing
where it's someone that I considered made it in racing
called me and it was one of the best days
of my life. And I kept his number in my phone.
Back then, I just thought it was the coolest thing.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
You know, it is the coolest thing. Did you have
any like Prima Donna ones who you wouldn't say hi
to anymore?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Ever, there's a couple but I'm not going to talk
about him too much. But not many. I mean, I
don't know. Yeah, I can probably count two to four
people that really disliked me from whatever reason in this world.
I mean, I think I've tried to really cover my
tracks respect people. Even when it's time to move on,
we move on, and it can maintain. I've worked pretty
(23:40):
hard at treating people, not just drivers. So everybody that
works for us, and you know a lot of them, Catherine.
There's five, yeah, five of them, and I'm trying to
talk quiet, but there's five of them that you work
with here, that have been with me for twenty years.
And I bought them all of rolets and I'm going
to give it to them, you know, next week, and
I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
That's amazing. Yeah, and yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And anything we've all you included, we've all worked for
the role X twenty four for much of our lives,
you know, and you always the drivers always get rolexes
and the owners. But some of these guys are going
to get that, and they deserve guys like Justin and
people like that.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, that's awesome. I love Justin. Still one of the
best cre chiefs that I've ever worked with to this day.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
So speaking about like he runs it all.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Now. Yeah, I stow that he's a director of competition
or something to the west. Oh great, that's amazing. He
deserves it. I mean, he works so hard and he's
so calm. The thing is one thing that I really
appreciate about him, even when I was getting like up
and down like I do, or if you weren't, if
you were mad or whoever wherever, he's just like level
(24:48):
and he brings everybody like peace.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, I agree. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I love that. So yeah, talking about Rolex twenty four
and the big races, when you won the NI five
hundred as your first Indy car went as a team owner,
there was was it just like shock and disbelief or
was it like, yeah, we knew this was coming, we
deserved it. Like what taught me through the emotions and
(25:14):
like what that was a springboard for because it's just
such a really cool underdog story.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, it's it was. I just got chills when you
just said that. I hadn't thought about it for a while.
You just said that. I just got chills, good on
my right arm. It was, well, me, let me put
it to this one. Growing up, I listened I can
remember working on cars in my shop my dad's garage
and listening to the Indy five hundred or during the
(25:42):
week during the Indy five on on the radio. The
radio networks that we'd have or used to we used
to get the Indie Stars delivered to Columbus every day
after so we'd have the current news on what's going on,
and we're I'm so into the Indy five hundred. I
only went to it one time ever, prior to the
go to winning the race, actually, but wow, sitting on
(26:06):
the stand, sitting on the stand that day, I was
on Jack Harvey's stand. I was talking to Jack. I
was a strategist, I guess, and I talked to him
on the radio. Jim Meyer was Caddy Corny to me
on a stand on the stand. Also just mostly listening,
and I'm working with Jack bust of the time. But
I'm watching Elio like just kind of running the top
five all day and I'm and this is a part time.
(26:28):
This crew we just you know, picked up and like
they have and and the first s up comes goes
and comes in fifth and comes out fourth. I'm like, huh,
all right, and he then he runs up to the
lead and then misses around and I just keep looking.
I look over at Jim, and Jim just share shrugs
his shoulder, you know, with twenty laps to go or
fifteen laps to go, I said to the engineer that
(26:48):
was on Jackscar, I said, like, I'm done. I got
I can't, I can't focus anymore. I gotta someone's got
to talk to Jack because I'm like, I like this
is gonna this could have happened. And when he crossed
the line and I just collapsed. It's like imagine a
horse person win the Kentucky Derby, or golfer winning Augusta
or like for us in our world that your your
(27:08):
your world. In my world that we've lived in our
entire lives, it is dreamlike state that has changed everything
for me going forward. I mean, we had a good run.
We had we had won a bunch of you know,
some cool races up to that point, but that led
to a snowball effect that is still It's a gift
that never stops giving. It just keeps giving. And I'm fortunate,
(27:30):
you know, we still race that car. That car is
still in rotation at the end of five hundred right now,
and we'll retire it here after you know, when when
the car comes up, but uh, that that car. I
have the right rear tire in my office here and
there's a there's a picture of me on the wall
over here and I jumped on on the I don't
even remember doing that. I can't see it really well,
(27:51):
but it's me straddling the Pentland when Elliot is going
by for the check and the flag that someone caught.
I don't remember doing it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
And I can encourage, you know, not to stop trying
to do the NDY five hundred, Catherine, just because the
effect it has on your life is just it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
It's such a weird feeling, like it's almost an addiction.
You just want to keep doing it, and you want
to do it in the best equipment you can. And
even if you're not in the best equipment, you're like
something special could happen, because it's happened before. Like you've
got to be there, You've got to be in it
to win it. And so last year when I didn't
get a car because we tried really hard and I
couldn't get chassis. Once once Honda like allocated me the
(28:32):
engine that was allocated to Ganassi. It was really late
and so we thought we'd get a car and we didn't,
and it was honestly devastating. It was like, you feel
so much loss. I think it's different if you decide, Okay,
I'm not going to race anymore, I'm not going to
do the five hundred and even whatever it is. But
this year I'm pushing really hard, really early, because ALFA
(28:54):
said that they will commit to doing it. So I
just need to find a home for it. And I
need to find a good home for it, because as
you very well know, the difference in cars at Indy
is incredible, and it's the smallest things in the attention
to detail that you're really good at that makes the
(29:14):
biggest difference. And so you can't just throw a car
at it, because you're going to be at the back
every single day.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Every single day we work on the Indy five hundred,
I can tell you that, and if you're not that
focused on it, it's going to be tough. And we
and in the last two years we've had the something
I'm very proud of. In the last two years in qualifying,
we've had the fastest Honda for the last two years
and I am extremely proud of that because that speaks
to the detail that you're speaking of. The quality quality
(29:42):
car is all about everything, every this, and that's not me.
That's the people that work here. And it's Adam you
know that runs the program. It's it's it's it is
so hard. And I understand your your plight, your problem,
I really do. And yeah, and uh yeah, it's tough.
There's a real there's a there is a problem with
(30:04):
the what's available just period, what's available, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, gone of the days that you had to outqualify
like six or seven cars to get into the race.
Do you think that those days will ever come back?
Do you think with the new car coming out, is
it twenty seven or twenty eight or twenty eight, then
there'll be an influx of teams.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I don't know. I don't see it being ever more
than thirty thirty five, thirty six, even with the new car.
I think for a team like take Dryer Rheinbold that
comes in, that's all the race they do, which is
fine and great, and they come in as an open team,
you know, which is fine. But to race IndyCar without
(30:43):
a charter right now is is the premise. Finding that
out right now is very difficult. You're not even eligible
for the Leader Circle program, which you know Roger has
raised for twenty twenty six and I'm so grateful for it.
It's really it's really tough. So I don't know. So
I don't know what the compelling argument would be. I
(31:04):
guess for a person to come out of nowhere unless
they had enough money for you to do in the
only and dry, or do it as good as anyone
could ever do it. Considering they do, that's the only
in my opinion, they do a great job. But man,
the detail we put in, the effort, in the NonStop
development of all the littlest things, it's hard to overcome.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And all the money that gets spent just for that
one race that you can justify over a season. If
you're doing a season and like the lights of Ganassi,
spending all that money and having all those really you know,
clever people as well, and everybody kind of pushing each
other to be the best, I think that they'll struggle
as well, unless there's another manufacturer that maybe comes in
and then the money and the support comes from there
(31:46):
and other teams to say, like if you were going
to go and do NASCAR, and another manufacturer was going
to go over there. If the same thing happened in reverse,
and like I don't know, Dodge or Ford or whoever
came and did it in reverse, then maybe it would
be plausible. But I think that the franchise would have
to change as well, because it would have to somebody
(32:06):
would have to sell their franchises, like maybe a Dale
who was looking to sell them before to said new team.
And it would listen to you to the landscape to.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Your point, are you right? You're that's I think you're
You're a good shot on this. I mean, if a
third manufacturer came in, it could really change the dynamic.
You're right. I didn't think of that, but I would
love for that.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
By the way, always talk about it like a year
or so ago, But then I think I've heard that
that's died down, So I don't know whether whether that's
likely anymore or not. But it's such a shame because
it's such a good product, like IndyCar is such a
great race series to watch, and I think that it
(32:48):
needs its its moment to shine, not just the Indy
five hundred, but the indiecurr in general, because they've all
they've got all these fans now because of drive to
survive that are into f one. But if we had
had drive to survive first, I think would have been
fans of IndyCar.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, I agree. I couldn't agree more. And we've tried
to do a couple of those kind of sugars in
IndyCar and they just haven't taken off. It's too late
now probably, but I.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Do agree been done.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, I've been done. That's right.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
We're going to take a quick break, but we will
be right back.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Welcome back to Toronto Therapy.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I would be remiss not to mention your lovely wife
and partner in crime, Mary Bear. Yes, and you must
say hi to her for me. But she's also been
a super integral part of MSR, and she's been on
the business side invaluable to you, and you've been partners
(33:53):
in crime. I think everything in life leads you done
path right, Like without her would you have been able
to do what you've done. Does she love racing or
does she just love the business aspect? Like what is
it that drives her?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah? She you know to everything you said is just
completely true. And I've certainly We've had our challenges, like
people do in life. I've made some bad decisions, you know, also,
but she is, you know, one of the most loyal, hardworking,
conservative people, and that's what's really got us through this.
(34:29):
So I'm I'm probably like for racing for me, and
you probably be the same way. I want to throw
everything at it. So if there's a set of dampers
that cost fifty grand for the old Daytona prototype car,
I'm trying to figure out a way. But she put
the brakes on that. That really saved my ass financially.
I can't tell you how many times and over time,
(34:51):
you know, it's so all the way up to Jim Meyer,
which is all the way through twenty seventeen, in our
first year in the NSX, she just was just really
conservative person and that if nothing else served me well
and me personally well, right, but ultimately serve the bits
even better, right, which is the real statement here, you know.
(35:12):
So she's been very tough. She's very tough, she's very strong,
she's very independent, she does not get pushed around, she's
very opinion it. She has all these things. But it's
a combination for me that helped on the just so
I'm just talking about business right now. You know, like
really made the business sing. When you don't have debt
in racing, it is a miracle of modern science. Right.
(35:34):
And when I met when we did the NSX program,
we had no you know, we have no we had
no debt and that's really what allowed us to weather
these you know, these values you get in financially. And
I owe a lot to her, and I can't I
don't want to. I don't want to tell her that
too too loud here, but uh, you did a lot.
I will also say, and this is a good time
to talk about Jim Meyer.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, I was going to ask about Jim and your
relationship with him and your friendship now as well.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Jim Meyer came in twenty I met him in twenty seventeen.
He's a sponsor with Jack Harvey. I met him there.
I like to tell him I baited him, hooked him
at that point, which he gets really mounded right sing that.
And he has single handedly him and his family, Jim
Meyer and his family have single handily changed our lives forever.
(36:21):
We would have never run won the Indy five hundred
with that him, we would never be the size we
are today without him. His loyalty and his generosity is
beyond reproach. But I will tell you one thing, and
you and I have seen a million wealthy people come
into this sport. Right. They come in and they go
about five years at a time, right, or maybe a
little bit more for thumb. But Jim, I just he
(36:44):
invested initially and I don't let him put any money
in beyond that, right, And there's times that we could
have used it, but I really stick to that, and
it's really kept our relationship I think, very genuine and upfront.
And I don't go to him every month for money
and to keep going, and that's critical. But I can't
say enough about what he's brought to this team from
(37:07):
a networking perspective, a guidance perspective, teaching me about everything
business wise, really take it to another level. And also
on top of that, Captain, he brought Liberty Media, who
as we all know, owned Formula One. They owned thirty
percent of the team. Yeah, and he brought them and
brought me up a real business perspective of how to
(37:28):
look at things and how to react to things. Good end,
bat when we got disqualified from Dayton, you know at
the roll twenty twenty three that was devastating to us.
It changed our lives, but he was there through it all.
The carved a path to redemption essentially and worked our
way out of it, and he was a big part
(37:48):
of that. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
For him, does he just love racing or does he
love the business aspect of helping you build MSR like
what drives Jim?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, I would say yes to all of that. He
loves specifically IndyCar Race and he's grown to love sports car.
But he came up with you know, he you know,
he moved to Indianapolis in nineteen eighty and ended up
running RCA in town and they sponsored cars over the
years and eighties and nineties. RCA did on an IndyCar
and he loves IndyCar and has a real path for it,
(38:21):
and that's how it really got going. But now his
son Tim runs our commercial side for us and works
full time of course, Michael and he does. Yeah, he
loved this.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
He had Sirius XM or he was part of Sirius
XM or he's on the board of Sirius XM or
something as well. Right, That's how I knew.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, he was the CEO for fifteen years, fourteen years,
so he ran serious. He bought he bought Pandora while
he was there. Then he retired three or four years
ago and stayed on the board. But now he's even
off the board, so he's not involved with serious at
all anymore. But in that those relationships are what really
move us, you know, and the relationships are what put
(39:00):
us where.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
We're at it, Like with those kind of credentials as well,
you know that when he's giving you business advice, you
should probably take it.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I do, especially with how to react the boards and
probably run companies and just how the pressures those folks
see when we're trying to sell them on something, and
you know, a perspective that I just had zero. You know,
I'm kind of an operations guy, right, but I've grown
into a business guy and I spend more of my
time on business than operations today, and I'm good with it.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Where do you want to go from here? What do
you see the future for both yourself and MSR as? Like,
what are your hope streams and aspirations?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Right now, we're at the biggest we built this building for.
We have two we have two full time ms GTP
cars and we have two and a half Indy cars.
That is the max we can be right now. So
from a pure sizing standpoint, that's about all we can
do unless we decide to do something in NASCAR, which
that remains to be seen. But what I continue to
(40:01):
strive on is to get the best people in the
world in this building. How can I do That's that's
why I spend thirty forty percent of my time every day.
Is the people that we have are the best. How
do I keep them? But how do I also attract
some other people that can make us stronger or we
feel as strong. That's all I think about. That can
be engineer, a mechanic, a driver, whatever it is. That's
(40:22):
what my strategy is. So we want to win championships,
we want to win races, of course, but I want
to get the best people on the planet here. That's
really what I care about because everything else will come.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Is that more difficult being in Ohio, you think than
being in someone like Indie where the most of the
teams are based.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I get that, asked a lot, and yes it
is not just law physics there, right. But the good
news is when I finally do get them to come here,
they're here and they love it, so they can't pick
their toolbox up computer. Yeah, and you know we try to,
you know, make sure we keep them happy. Our retention
rate is pretty good, you know we you know, I'm
(41:00):
pretty proud of our retention. Right. It's not perfect, and
it's certainly not perfect to work here. We have our problems,
But I genuinely care about people and want to try
to figure out ways to make them happy, even in
their darkest day, their personal darkest days. If I can
figure out a way to keep them here and happy,
if as long as they're willing to produce at the
(41:20):
level I need them to produce, that that I'm going
to do everything in my power. And it's almost always
money related, but not always, Yeah, but not always.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But to join in the first place, they want to
join a winning team, and so your credentials speak for
themselves in that, Like nobody wants to join back of
the grid team if they can join a front of
the grid.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Team, right, yeah, Yeah, But I also believe that they
want to be respected and heard and heard a lot
of times you don't get heard, you know what I'm saying, right,
and we try to do that. It's not perfect, but yes,
everything is results driven. You're not going to call me
to do the NY five hundred unless you think there's
a reason and you should do that, and that means
(42:01):
we're going to perform or anybody else, whether it's a
driver response or whatever it is. And so the pressure
to keep that going. You know, we just finished six
and eighth in the championship. That's the best we've ever
done in IndyCar and it took us eight years in
IndyCar to do that. Is not trivial. It's so difficult.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, but it's impressive, honestly because you're up against some big,
big teams, like the big machine teams that have a
lot a lot of money and a lot of resources
and manufacturer relationships that go back decades, you know. So
I think it's impressive what you've done. I'm going to
leave you on I was reading an ESPN article from
(42:45):
that was written by Marshall Prewet. I'm going to leave
you and the readers on this last quote, which I
thought was amazing. He says, in a world of petty
horners and wolves, be a mic shank And I love
that quote. So much because I think a lot of
people or should take that to heart.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Well, that's very that's very kind of Marshal to say that,
but we certainly try, we really do.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah. Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining me.
It was really interesting to hear a lot about your background.
I'm sorry we jumped around so much, but you know
you have my number for when you're going to do
the NASCAR thing and you need somebody to drive the endycuff. Ah.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, we'll see, we'll see what happens to anything possible exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Stay warm up there in Ohio and I'll catchulater. Thanks mate, all.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Right, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Thanks for listening to Throttle Therapy. We'll be back next
week with more updates and more overtakes. We want to
hear from you. Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts
and tell us what you want to talk about. It
might just be the topic for our next show. Throttle
Therapy is hosted by Katherine Legg. Our executive producer is
Jesse Katz, and our supervising producer is Grace Feuce. Listen
(43:56):
to Throttle Therapy on America's number one podcast network, I
Heart Open your free iHeart app and search. Thrototherapy with
Catherine leg And start listening
Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an Iheartwoman's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can
find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to this week's
episode of Throttle Therapy with Me Catherine Legg. And this week,
(00:30):
I am honored to be joined by one of my
former bosses. I would also like to call him a friend.
He's somebody who I very much look up to. He's
fought his way through the sport and done everything the
right way, the proper way, the hard way, and I
think his success has been a testament to all of
the hard work and hours that he's spent in racing.
(00:52):
He's definitely got the heart of a racer and I
am very proud to welcome Mike Shank to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Hey Mike, Hey Kapin.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thanks for joining me. I know that you're based up
there in Ohio, and I know it's that time of
year that it's particularly miserable, But is there you just
your love of racing would just keep you in Ohio
for forever?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well that's yeah, kind of yes. So this is where
it all started for me Middle Ohio, specifically when in
the late seventies, when my dad started taking me to
races when I was seven or eight something like that,
nine and going to Middle Ohio every weekend with him.
He was a crew guy on a some kind of
(01:36):
production car like an MG or Fiat or something like that,
and that's what got me early on at the track.
And I loved it. And I was a car person anyways.
As a three year old, I could listen to the
car engine and know what they were V eight or
straight sixes or four cylinders or you know modified way. Yeah,
I just had it was just it's just kind of
(01:56):
bred into me, you know. But the passion though, the
for racing started with my dad, like a lot of us,
like you do with your dad, and it just couldn't
I couldn't escape it. I tried it with boats for
a while. I still love boats today, but I tried
it with boats for a while back then, and water
skiing and all kinds of stuff, but nothing got me
(02:18):
anywhere close to the rush I got from driving race cars.
So it all started in Ohio, Central Ohiso, and I
just committed to staying here because my mom was here,
My dad passed away a long time ago, and my
mom was here and I just didn't want to leave
her to be honest and take care of her, so
I stayed here to do that. But in the meantime
the business was building, the race and the driving and
(02:40):
then the eventually the preparation shop.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Did your mom light racing as well or was it
just a dad thing?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
She tolerated it, you know, she wasn't into it like
me and my dad were, but she did come. She
supported it, she did. You know, my parents were very
modest folks. We weren't poor by any means, but we
could no way and you can relate to this more
than anyone. We could no way afford to do what
we're doing, not even close even back then. I mean,
if we you know, we spend one hundred thousand on
(03:07):
a set of brake pads this year. You know, one
hundred gram would one hundred graham would have gotten me
through a whole year of Pro Formula two thousand or
Pro Sports two thousand. You know, it's just the perspective
is so different now. Well, the one thing that did
teach me is that and this sounds so bullshit cliche,
but anything is possible. And again you know this, Everything
(03:31):
is possible. You just got to figure out a way
to make it happen. And I never gave that up.
I took a dog to a bone. I just did
not let off that bone ever, and in eventually it
really came around for us.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So you started by running like Formula Atlantics and stuff
in s SCA right, yep, yep, because I have here
one of your biggest achievements was you won Novice of
the Year at this SCCA Ohio Racing nine eighty nine.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, that's like, that's like saying you want a blue
ribbon at a Pyicon. You know, no, it's not.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I think it's lovely. You won the nineteen ninety six
Players Atlantic CT Championship as well, So you weren't You
were a good driver.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well back then I thought I was really really good, right,
I thought I And by the way, I ended up
doing one irl race in ninety seven eight I can't remember. Yes,
that was yeah, that was the top for me. But
but since.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Then an Oldsmobile, folks, no old mobile.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It is my father's old mobile. As it turned out, though,
on the driving skills side, I was average, maybe a
little above average when I was driving a lot and
driving cars for other people, but not compared to even
you know, all the people, including yourself, that I've come
in touch with later in life, were just just better.
And my problem for me personally wasn't a physical thing. Ever,
(04:56):
it was a mental thing. And for me, multitasking at
a super high level and being able to take one
more input when I'm already kind of maxed, that's just
my brain. I would I'd fuck up and I'd be
in a wall, or I'd spin, or I'd lose any brain.
It's a weird thing mentally for me, on multitasking extreme conditions,
(05:18):
I kind of control the leite in my brain sometimes
and for lack of better word, I lose my way
and it destroyed my race, my driving, my racing driving.
Uh thankfully, you know, I didn't have any other way
to make a living, so I had to figure something out,
and the car preparation site in parallel was coming along,
and that obviously dominated and took off after a while.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Did you go to college or have any aspirations to
be like a fireman or an economist or anything random
when you were in school.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Katherine, I graduated in drinking beer and driving cars and
race girls. Right, Like, I had a one point eight
one point eight great point average. I'm not kidding one
point eight, so there was a zero college. But what
I had was a work ethic, and I went to
work for one and a half years as a ligne
(06:08):
mechanic at a Maser dealership. That's the only job I've
ever had outside of racing, and that was in the
late eighties, and it was enough to get a loan
for my first swift sports car sports youth outand okay,
and I got a load in and I destroyed that.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Car by the way, so well, no, and you didn't
have the money to rebuild it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I'm guessing it basically bankrupted me. But we kept going.
You know, we did never fail, even when Fay was
all over me.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We never stopped keep on keeping on. That's the same
story as me, I feel like. But it surprises me
that you say that you can't multitask in your brain,
because I've seen you do it so many times, and
it seems like with running the business anyway, like you've
got all of these bulls in the air, and you're
a master at keeping everything going and knowing what everybody's
(06:54):
doing and like so it would seem like it would
be your forte, not something that would we'll make you
a driver.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
But I you know, not all of people who see this,
but I've developed lips in these old paper lists. The
way I found that I have to deal with that
problem I have. I have to do one thing at
a time, and I've got to mark it off when
I got it done. And that's the way for me
that I can. I can multitask as long as I
keep track of the multitasks. I'm not doing it by memory.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So I'm the same.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, got to have it right.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, I'm the same with the writing it down though,
Like even my diary is a paper diary because I
have it on my phone too, but it's like a
visual thing to me, like if I see it in
black and white like a list, it can't be on
my phone or on my computer. It has to be
right Now.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The truly great people at what we do in our sport,
the truly ones that are making millions a year, they
have an ability in my opinion, and you're in that
group too. You have an ability to do it at
a high intensity level. Now I'm not talking just about
if hiring people and working with people. I'm talking about
when your life is on the line driving a race
car and making decisions to advance your position or the
(08:03):
team or whatever you're doing. That's where I really failed, right,
and or didn't do as well I think I should
have so. But now, but now, seeing all these folks
that I've worked with over the years, I've seen how
possible it is, and it's a cool thing.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So you were driving, and in parallel you were setting
these cars up, and then at some point, and I've
got it written down here, here we go, nineteen ninety
nine you were Sam Hornish's car, and it was that
you were first fora and too running the team.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
No so night well in a pro level. Okay, in
ninety six when I did Toyota Atlant which is a
pro you know, seer of wrong like Indy Lights, right,
I started in Atlantic then and I ran myself and
one other guy in an Atlantic car and that was
a start in ninety six, and then we built the
Atlantic team up tour in ninety nine. We were really
(08:55):
damn good at it, and Dale, who you worked with
a lot, was my lead, right, and we built the
Atlantic side up to a point where guys like Sam
would come to us and drive for us, right, and
he did a hell, he did a great job for us.
And but the tough thing about that is a call.
And this just came up in the NASCAR trial yesterday.
(09:18):
The idiot prosecutor or whoever's on twenty three eleven side
said that in nineteen ninety six the split made it
better for Indy car, you know it just the split
actually drove me out of the drove me out of
open wheel racing. And that's why in two thousand and
four I ended up in sports car racing because of
(09:40):
the split. It affected so many people in our It
just the whole, the whole. When they split in ninety six,
it diverted everybody and everything and all the assets it
takes to do it and the people that care, the fans.
It split everybody and created two devisive and if it
happens in NASCAR, by the way, it will be disaster.
(10:01):
So my point in this, I hope you're right. But
in my point in this is that in my open
wheel career was all open wheel, open wheel until two
until two thousand and two, three I lost my Atlantic deal.
Our team did terrible that year. The parents that were
paying us to run. Their kids literally left us midyear.
It was terrible. Didn't know what we're going to do.
(10:24):
This is three and picked up pick up the day
Dale and I were the only people working here. We
ended up scrambling, just did some odd oddball race card
subcontract stuff and in four I discovered this thing called
Daytona Prototype and took every penny I had. We refinanced
(10:45):
the house. Jim France helped me. We bought a Dorin
DP and that's what really set the trajectory or on today.
That means we went away from open Wheel, which was
my true love, the Indianapolis five hundred, and the way
I could stay in racing at that point was to
go sports car racing. And it was the absolute move.
(11:06):
You literally are sitting at a fork in the road
and you don't know what the hell to do. That
was it that that was literally it, and we picked
the right fork and we got really lucky that way,
and it led to all these great professional level networking
that you know is so important to kind of we're
at today.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Really So was that during the IMPS Grandam split as well?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
There that was yes, So I was on the Grand
Am side with Jim Franz, that's Daytona Prototype, that's DP.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, because I raced in two thousand and five, I
raced a DP cor for Robinson Racing at Daytona and
that was the last time I remember driving in Grandam.
And then I went back to Open Wheel. Actually I
think I went, Yeah, I did, and then I went
to Europe. But then all of a sudden, when I
came back, it was INSE and so I didn't really
(11:58):
know how that joint and didn't go back together. And
I remember how Champcar and IndyCar joined and got back together,
but I didn't remember or I didn't really know. It
wasn't part of it how IMSA and Grandam didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, and thirteen or fourteen, you know, we got it
all back together. Jim bought Don out your old boss
and that helped, and that really set the path for
sportscar racing today and how incredibly healthy it is getting
yet again, you had two sports cars series, two IndyCar series,
didn't work, They get back together. Two sports car series
don't work, they get back and we're talking about North
(12:33):
America area and then we're back together again. It really
is driving the popularity and the you know strength of
IMSA today, you know, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
A fan base because people know that it's the premier
sports car series. And in North America now there's only
three series, right, there's IndyCar, there's NASCAR and there and
there's EMS and so they have a home rather than
it being split.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back. Welcome back to Toronto Therapy.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So going back to the NASCAR stuff real quick, because
I've been following that and obviously that's a well that
I'm now entrenched in. Do you think that all the
IndyCar teammates such as yourself are looking at this thinking
whatever happens from this will then maybe flow over to
IndyCar as well.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
No, not really. You know, we have for you know,
we have franchises charters in IndyCar now, Jim Meyer and
I own two of them, right, So we have a
version of what a version of what they do. It's
not totally the same, especially the way it's funded. I
don't want to see for the sake of motorsports, you know, overall,
especially with drive to survive in the Formula One, popularity
(13:48):
gain in the last four years, and I feel like
that has helped all of us rise the tide on
all the boat's roads. I think this has potential to
hurt the whole world in motorsports if NASCAR.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Does even one.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I don't know about F one, probably not F one,
but certainly everything that we do, he will have not
a good effect on. Now, you can argue it the
other way. You could say, hey, listen, if NASCAR goes
away or the version it is today that is so
dominant in North America, maybe that could actually help IndyCar
in sports car. I don't look at it that way though,
I really don't. I look at it we need to
(14:27):
make IndyCar better in sportscar better, and we need to
focus on that and not someone else's failure or problems.
I'm a diehard supporter of the NASCAR side of this,
and we could go down that rabbit hole forever. There's
lots of reasons. Yeah, Jim front, Yeah, my loyalty to
Jim is be here. But take that to the side.
(14:47):
You just look at the facts of what's going on here.
I think they're playing with fire here that Michael Jordan
doesn't even realize that could have a knockoff effect of
I mean, you think about so many people that could
be affected by NASCAR coming apart or really changing the
families the crew, the families of the crew, that the
amount of people that industry feeds. And I saw the
(15:09):
effect that had an IndyCar when IndyCar split. So if
the courts forced NASCAR to diverse, diverge and another series
is great, it will destroy stock car racing in my
opinion in North America based on just what's happening, I
would what's happened to sports car?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah? Do you think though that there's a real chance
of that happening? In my opinion, I think, you know,
if NASCAR win, I think front row and twenty three
eleven probably go away, and that opens up charts for
other people, and there's plenty of people who want them.
And if twenty three to eleven win, then I think
it changes the charter system for everybody. I didn't think
(15:46):
that having a separate series would be a viable option
really because NASCAR owns so many of the tracks that
we raised that how would that even work.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
If they If the course determined that it's monopolistic in
what they're doing, they courts could force them to sell
the tracks or do some version of how they own
it now and listen, like they could just pull the
charter off. You could just NASCAR race without charters, and
let me tell you from a business perspective, that is
playing with fire. Charters are the fuel for our world now.
(16:18):
They're not perfect. They're not perfect in anycar. They're not
perfect in NASCAR. Everyone will tell you that part. But
it's a basis that we all can go forward in business.
Michael and the furniture or front Row argue that it's
not fair to me the way I've grown up out
of the dirt to the top here and I know
what they have to raise compared to what we have
(16:39):
to raise an IndyCar. They have it beyond good. They
have to raise less money than we do to do
it because of the charter system. They more races and
more and more TV numbers, more people, more eyeballs, they
hear what I'm saying. NASCAR have to raise less money
per year per car than we do an IndyCar because
(17:00):
of the charter in the financial gain all of the
owners get from the chart.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Have you ever thought about going down the NASCAR route
and trying a team in NASCAR all the time? Would
you still consider it, Like, depending on what happens with
this court case, obviously, but if a Chelter came up
for sale and you're like, screw it, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Obviously, Yes, this needs to settle down. It depends on
the economics. The economics of NASCAR, Michael says, doesn't work
when I look my math at it. If you are
a charter team, then that the model can easily work. Period. Like,
I don't know what you know, Denny. They came out
that Denny makes fourteen million a year. God love them
that god level. I wish that's not the new model.
(17:39):
I mean, he's the guy that deserves it. I'm not
arguing that. I'm just saying, when you have a fourteen
million dollar driver on your payroll, that's a hard not
to overcome percentage wise, to compare to operating the team. Right,
So Joe Gibbs chooses to have Denny because he's a
champion driver, Okay, great, you know or you know they're
paying babblah. I think five millionaire, which is a very
(18:01):
very good salary. He's worth it, got it. But you know,
like a lot of this is self driven. You know,
you want the best. You got to pay for the best.
I am such a believer in charters and what they
do for teams on the indy car side. We've already
seen it. How it's an increased starting bottom line value
of what we own compared to having twenty cents on
the dollar if we have to go to auction, if
(18:22):
we're done racing. I just think it's just a wonderful
place to be compared to where we were.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay, So I'm saying it here now. I'm Mike. You
come over to NASCAR agent, I will drive for you
and we'll live happily.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Ever, well, that's very possible, very possible, But unfortunately, unfortunately,
you know, I'm getting older in the it's weird, like
I'm getting older and the business is going better than
it ever has. I'm going the wrong. I got the
timing all weird now, so I don't know what I'm
going to do.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
No, that's the way it happens, and I actually want
to get okay, So I will get back to that now.
So you you really kind of took off as a
team from from the Grandam and then following imsidays because
you hooked up with Honda and Akira, you hooked up
with Jim Meyer. You hooked up with liber Liberty.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, yeah, the media.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And so it was like this snowball effect where as
soon as you and that's obviously how we know each
other because I drove for you for a few years
in the NSX and by the way, to this day,
still the best team that I've driven for.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Very kind you to say that.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
So, Christina, I've got a couple of really funny and
today es. Actually, So Christina and I were talking the
other day because we've become close friends when we stay
in touch, and we were obviously teammates yet she's great,
But we were talking about driving for you and like
how wonderful it was and how we had the best
car and we knew it always had the chance and
we knew that you believed in us and all the
things right like that we took for granted at the time.
(19:49):
I feel like, but isn't normal. And we were talking
about we've actually called it daddy issues now because we
were like when Mike was on the radio, you to
hear in his voice what he was thinking, like if
he was disappointed in you, if he was happy, if
you were doing a good job, like you didn't need
to tell us you're doing a good job. You could
(20:10):
just like you could tell from the radio communications. And
we were discussing it and we realized that we had
this in common, that we were really keen to impress
you and do a good job, so that on the
radio you were saying, yeah, a good job, and like
you were pleased with us. And so we decided that
you're the only team owner we've ever had, like Daddy
issues with.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, I don't know what that's good or but probably bad,
probably not good.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I think AJS probably would say the same thing. So
you've had so many great drivers drive for you. Yeah,
obviously apart from me, you had, you've had the Oz's
you've had, But these people are really really good people too,
like Oz and Justin and aj Like. If you look
at the list of drivers you've had, you've had some
of the best drivers to work with as well as
(20:53):
best drivers, And it makes me think, you know, you
must look back on all of those times with all
of this people, to Justin's and the ouses and everybody,
and just have an immense sense of pride that you
got to achieve what you did with those people.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
If you look at the core of all those people
you just listed in concluding yourself, we all came from
a very similar space how we were raised I'm guessing,
which was modest and had to fight for almost every
single thing we did in our life in racing, and
there's a commonality that bonds us all there. And also
(21:29):
I think I have a sense of people. I think
when I sit down with them and if we we
have a common I don't know what to say because
we're not we won't get we don't get pushed around,
and we get shoved around. But basically we're nice people
at the core. We're nice people. Well, we respect our elders,
our parents, we respect people that came before us. We
(21:52):
have this base thing and all those A lot of
those people you just mentioned are that way. And I
tell you the newer guys that I'm working with now,
Alex Blow, even Scott Dixon. Now these guys that you know, Nick,
you Yoli, you know, like these guys are all like
reasonable people to begin with. There's no there's no Prima Donna's,
there's no like they're they we all have this kind
(22:13):
of base, for the most part, commonalty. And that's what
I look back on and think about, how cool that was.
And I've had some characters too. We've had people that
have gone to prison, have people, We've had so many
characters that's over. You know. We had I Paul Tracy
for a couple of years, which was, you know, awesome,
you know, like I got great Paul stories. I really
(22:33):
actually really liked Paul characters, just true racing characters and
awesome people of the industry. I feel so lucky to
be able to the first famous person that I thought
almost blew me away, that ever called me was Johnny Rutherford.
And Johnny called me the old the old man. He
called me because he wanted me to and I did.
(22:55):
I ran his son. His name was John Rutherford. I'll
never forget that. I finally got to point in racing
where it's someone that I considered made it in racing
called me and it was one of the best days
of my life. And I kept his number in my phone.
Back then, I just thought it was the coolest thing.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
You know, it is the coolest thing. Did you have
any like Prima Donna ones who you wouldn't say hi
to anymore?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Ever, there's a couple but I'm not going to talk
about him too much. But not many. I mean, I
don't know. Yeah, I can probably count two to four
people that really disliked me from whatever reason in this world.
I mean, I think I've tried to really cover my
tracks respect people. Even when it's time to move on,
we move on, and it can maintain. I've worked pretty
(23:40):
hard at treating people, not just drivers. So everybody that
works for us, and you know a lot of them, Catherine.
There's five, yeah, five of them, and I'm trying to
talk quiet, but there's five of them that you work
with here, that have been with me for twenty years.
And I bought them all of rolets and I'm going
to give it to them, you know, next week, and
I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
That's amazing. Yeah, and yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And anything we've all you included, we've all worked for
the role X twenty four for much of our lives,
you know, and you always the drivers always get rolexes
and the owners. But some of these guys are going
to get that, and they deserve guys like Justin and
people like that.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, that's awesome. I love Justin. Still one of the
best cre chiefs that I've ever worked with to this day.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
So speaking about like he runs it all.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Now. Yeah, I stow that he's a director of competition
or something to the west. Oh great, that's amazing. He
deserves it. I mean, he works so hard and he's
so calm. The thing is one thing that I really
appreciate about him, even when I was getting like up
and down like I do, or if you weren't, if
you were mad or whoever wherever, he's just like level
(24:48):
and he brings everybody like peace.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, I agree. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I love that. So yeah, talking about Rolex twenty four
and the big races, when you won the NI five
hundred as your first Indy car went as a team owner,
there was was it just like shock and disbelief or
was it like, yeah, we knew this was coming, we
deserved it. Like what taught me through the emotions and
(25:14):
like what that was a springboard for because it's just
such a really cool underdog story.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, it's it was. I just got chills when you
just said that. I hadn't thought about it for a while.
You just said that. I just got chills, good on
my right arm. It was, well, me, let me put
it to this one. Growing up, I listened I can
remember working on cars in my shop my dad's garage
and listening to the Indy five hundred or during the
(25:42):
week during the Indy five on on the radio. The
radio networks that we'd have or used to we used
to get the Indie Stars delivered to Columbus every day
after so we'd have the current news on what's going on,
and we're I'm so into the Indy five hundred. I
only went to it one time ever, prior to the
go to winning the race, actually, but wow, sitting on
(26:06):
the stand, sitting on the stand that day, I was
on Jack Harvey's stand. I was talking to Jack. I
was a strategist, I guess, and I talked to him
on the radio. Jim Meyer was Caddy Corny to me
on a stand on the stand. Also just mostly listening,
and I'm working with Jack bust of the time. But
I'm watching Elio like just kind of running the top
five all day and I'm and this is a part time.
(26:28):
This crew we just you know, picked up and like
they have and and the first s up comes goes
and comes in fifth and comes out fourth. I'm like, huh,
all right, and he then he runs up to the
lead and then misses around and I just keep looking.
I look over at Jim, and Jim just share shrugs
his shoulder, you know, with twenty laps to go or
fifteen laps to go, I said to the engineer that
(26:48):
was on Jackscar, I said, like, I'm done. I got
I can't, I can't focus anymore. I gotta someone's got
to talk to Jack because I'm like, I like this
is gonna this could have happened. And when he crossed
the line and I just collapsed. It's like imagine a
horse person win the Kentucky Derby, or golfer winning Augusta
or like for us in our world that your your
(27:08):
your world. In my world that we've lived in our
entire lives, it is dreamlike state that has changed everything
for me going forward. I mean, we had a good run.
We had we had won a bunch of you know,
some cool races up to that point, but that led
to a snowball effect that is still It's a gift
that never stops giving. It just keeps giving. And I'm fortunate,
(27:30):
you know, we still race that car. That car is
still in rotation at the end of five hundred right now,
and we'll retire it here after you know, when when
the car comes up, but uh, that that car. I
have the right rear tire in my office here and
there's a there's a picture of me on the wall
over here and I jumped on on the I don't
even remember doing that. I can't see it really well,
(27:51):
but it's me straddling the Pentland when Elliot is going
by for the check and the flag that someone caught.
I don't remember doing it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
And I can encourage, you know, not to stop trying
to do the NDY five hundred, Catherine, just because the
effect it has on your life is just it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
It's such a weird feeling, like it's almost an addiction.
You just want to keep doing it, and you want
to do it in the best equipment you can. And
even if you're not in the best equipment, you're like
something special could happen, because it's happened before. Like you've
got to be there, You've got to be in it
to win it. And so last year when I didn't
get a car because we tried really hard and I
couldn't get chassis. Once once Honda like allocated me the
(28:32):
engine that was allocated to Ganassi. It was really late
and so we thought we'd get a car and we didn't,
and it was honestly devastating. It was like, you feel
so much loss. I think it's different if you decide, Okay,
I'm not going to race anymore, I'm not going to
do the five hundred and even whatever it is. But
this year I'm pushing really hard, really early, because ALFA
(28:54):
said that they will commit to doing it. So I
just need to find a home for it. And I
need to find a good home for it, because as
you very well know, the difference in cars at Indy
is incredible, and it's the smallest things in the attention
to detail that you're really good at that makes the
(29:14):
biggest difference. And so you can't just throw a car
at it, because you're going to be at the back
every single day.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Every single day we work on the Indy five hundred,
I can tell you that, and if you're not that
focused on it, it's going to be tough. And we
and in the last two years we've had the something
I'm very proud of. In the last two years in qualifying,
we've had the fastest Honda for the last two years
and I am extremely proud of that because that speaks
to the detail that you're speaking of. The quality quality
(29:42):
car is all about everything, every this, and that's not me.
That's the people that work here. And it's Adam you
know that runs the program. It's it's it's it is
so hard. And I understand your your plight, your problem,
I really do. And yeah, and uh yeah, it's tough.
There's a real there's a there is a problem with
(30:04):
the what's available just period, what's available, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, gone of the days that you had to outqualify
like six or seven cars to get into the race.
Do you think that those days will ever come back?
Do you think with the new car coming out, is
it twenty seven or twenty eight or twenty eight, then
there'll be an influx of teams.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I don't know. I don't see it being ever more
than thirty thirty five, thirty six, even with the new car.
I think for a team like take Dryer Rheinbold that
comes in, that's all the race they do, which is
fine and great, and they come in as an open team,
you know, which is fine. But to race IndyCar without
(30:43):
a charter right now is is the premise. Finding that
out right now is very difficult. You're not even eligible
for the Leader Circle program, which you know Roger has
raised for twenty twenty six and I'm so grateful for it.
It's really it's really tough. So I don't know. So
I don't know what the compelling argument would be. I
(31:04):
guess for a person to come out of nowhere unless
they had enough money for you to do in the
only and dry, or do it as good as anyone
could ever do it. Considering they do, that's the only
in my opinion, they do a great job. But man,
the detail we put in, the effort, in the NonStop
development of all the littlest things, it's hard to overcome.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And all the money that gets spent just for that
one race that you can justify over a season. If
you're doing a season and like the lights of Ganassi,
spending all that money and having all those really you know,
clever people as well, and everybody kind of pushing each
other to be the best, I think that they'll struggle
as well, unless there's another manufacturer that maybe comes in
and then the money and the support comes from there
(31:46):
and other teams to say, like if you were going
to go and do NASCAR, and another manufacturer was going
to go over there. If the same thing happened in reverse,
and like I don't know, Dodge or Ford or whoever
came and did it in reverse, then maybe it would
be plausible. But I think that the franchise would have
to change as well, because it would have to somebody
(32:06):
would have to sell their franchises, like maybe a Dale
who was looking to sell them before to said new team.
And it would listen to you to the landscape to.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Your point, are you right? You're that's I think you're
You're a good shot on this. I mean, if a
third manufacturer came in, it could really change the dynamic.
You're right. I didn't think of that, but I would
love for that.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
By the way, always talk about it like a year
or so ago, But then I think I've heard that
that's died down, So I don't know whether whether that's
likely anymore or not. But it's such a shame because
it's such a good product, like IndyCar is such a
great race series to watch, and I think that it
(32:48):
needs its its moment to shine, not just the Indy
five hundred, but the indiecurr in general, because they've all
they've got all these fans now because of drive to
survive that are into f one. But if we had
had drive to survive first, I think would have been
fans of IndyCar.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, I agree. I couldn't agree more. And we've tried
to do a couple of those kind of sugars in
IndyCar and they just haven't taken off. It's too late
now probably, but I.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Do agree been done.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, I've been done. That's right.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
We're going to take a quick break, but we will
be right back.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Welcome back to Toronto Therapy.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I would be remiss not to mention your lovely wife
and partner in crime, Mary Bear. Yes, and you must
say hi to her for me. But she's also been
a super integral part of MSR, and she's been on
the business side invaluable to you, and you've been partners
(33:53):
in crime. I think everything in life leads you done
path right, Like without her would you have been able
to do what you've done. Does she love racing or
does she just love the business aspect? Like what is
it that drives her?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah? She you know to everything you said is just
completely true. And I've certainly We've had our challenges, like
people do in life. I've made some bad decisions, you know, also,
but she is, you know, one of the most loyal, hardworking,
conservative people, and that's what's really got us through this.
(34:29):
So I'm I'm probably like for racing for me, and
you probably be the same way. I want to throw
everything at it. So if there's a set of dampers
that cost fifty grand for the old Daytona prototype car,
I'm trying to figure out a way. But she put
the brakes on that. That really saved my ass financially.
I can't tell you how many times and over time,
(34:51):
you know, it's so all the way up to Jim Meyer,
which is all the way through twenty seventeen, in our
first year in the NSX, she just was just really
conservative person and that if nothing else served me well
and me personally well, right, but ultimately serve the bits
even better, right, which is the real statement here, you know.
(35:12):
So she's been very tough. She's very tough, she's very strong,
she's very independent, she does not get pushed around, she's
very opinion it. She has all these things. But it's
a combination for me that helped on the just so
I'm just talking about business right now. You know, like
really made the business sing. When you don't have debt
in racing, it is a miracle of modern science. Right.
(35:34):
And when I met when we did the NSX program,
we had no you know, we have no we had
no debt and that's really what allowed us to weather
these you know, these values you get in financially. And
I owe a lot to her, and I can't I
don't want to. I don't want to tell her that
too too loud here, but uh, you did a lot.
I will also say, and this is a good time
to talk about Jim Meyer.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, I was going to ask about Jim and your
relationship with him and your friendship now as well.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Jim Meyer came in twenty I met him in twenty seventeen.
He's a sponsor with Jack Harvey. I met him there.
I like to tell him I baited him, hooked him
at that point, which he gets really mounded right sing that.
And he has single handedly him and his family, Jim
Meyer and his family have single handily changed our lives forever.
(36:21):
We would have never run won the Indy five hundred
with that him, we would never be the size we
are today without him. His loyalty and his generosity is
beyond reproach. But I will tell you one thing, and
you and I have seen a million wealthy people come
into this sport. Right. They come in and they go
about five years at a time, right, or maybe a
little bit more for thumb. But Jim, I just he
(36:44):
invested initially and I don't let him put any money
in beyond that, right, And there's times that we could
have used it, but I really stick to that, and
it's really kept our relationship I think, very genuine and upfront.
And I don't go to him every month for money
and to keep going, and that's critical. But I can't
say enough about what he's brought to this team from
(37:07):
a networking perspective, a guidance perspective, teaching me about everything
business wise, really take it to another level. And also
on top of that, Captain, he brought Liberty Media, who
as we all know, owned Formula One. They owned thirty
percent of the team. Yeah, and he brought them and
brought me up a real business perspective of how to
(37:28):
look at things and how to react to things. Good end,
bat when we got disqualified from Dayton, you know at
the roll twenty twenty three that was devastating to us.
It changed our lives, but he was there through it all.
The carved a path to redemption essentially and worked our
way out of it, and he was a big part
(37:48):
of that. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
For him, does he just love racing or does he
love the business aspect of helping you build MSR like
what drives Jim?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, I would say yes to all of that. He
loves specifically IndyCar Race and he's grown to love sports car.
But he came up with you know, he you know,
he moved to Indianapolis in nineteen eighty and ended up
running RCA in town and they sponsored cars over the
years and eighties and nineties. RCA did on an IndyCar
and he loves IndyCar and has a real path for it,
(38:21):
and that's how it really got going. But now his
son Tim runs our commercial side for us and works
full time of course, Michael and he does. Yeah, he
loved this.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
He had Sirius XM or he was part of Sirius
XM or he's on the board of Sirius XM or
something as well. Right, That's how I knew.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, he was the CEO for fifteen years, fourteen years,
so he ran serious. He bought he bought Pandora while
he was there. Then he retired three or four years
ago and stayed on the board. But now he's even
off the board, so he's not involved with serious at
all anymore. But in that those relationships are what really
move us, you know, and the relationships are what put
(39:00):
us where.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
We're at it, Like with those kind of credentials as well,
you know that when he's giving you business advice, you
should probably take it.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I do, especially with how to react the boards and
probably run companies and just how the pressures those folks
see when we're trying to sell them on something, and
you know, a perspective that I just had zero. You know,
I'm kind of an operations guy, right, but I've grown
into a business guy and I spend more of my
time on business than operations today, and I'm good with it.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Where do you want to go from here? What do
you see the future for both yourself and MSR as? Like,
what are your hope streams and aspirations?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Right now, we're at the biggest we built this building for.
We have two we have two full time ms GTP
cars and we have two and a half Indy cars.
That is the max we can be right now. So
from a pure sizing standpoint, that's about all we can
do unless we decide to do something in NASCAR, which
that remains to be seen. But what I continue to
(40:01):
strive on is to get the best people in the
world in this building. How can I do That's that's
why I spend thirty forty percent of my time every day.
Is the people that we have are the best. How
do I keep them? But how do I also attract
some other people that can make us stronger or we
feel as strong. That's all I think about. That can
be engineer, a mechanic, a driver, whatever it is. That's
(40:22):
what my strategy is. So we want to win championships,
we want to win races, of course, but I want
to get the best people on the planet here. That's
really what I care about because everything else will come.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Is that more difficult being in Ohio, you think than
being in someone like Indie where the most of the
teams are based.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, I get that, asked a lot, and yes it
is not just law physics there, right. But the good
news is when I finally do get them to come here,
they're here and they love it, so they can't pick
their toolbox up computer. Yeah, and you know we try to,
you know, make sure we keep them happy. Our retention
rate is pretty good, you know we you know, I'm
(41:00):
pretty proud of our retention. Right. It's not perfect, and
it's certainly not perfect to work here. We have our problems,
But I genuinely care about people and want to try
to figure out ways to make them happy, even in
their darkest day, their personal darkest days. If I can
figure out a way to keep them here and happy,
if as long as they're willing to produce at the
(41:20):
level I need them to produce, that that I'm going
to do everything in my power. And it's almost always
money related, but not always, Yeah, but not always.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But to join in the first place, they want to
join a winning team, and so your credentials speak for
themselves in that, Like nobody wants to join back of
the grid team if they can join a front of
the grid.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Team, right, yeah, Yeah, But I also believe that they
want to be respected and heard and heard a lot
of times you don't get heard, you know what I'm saying, right,
and we try to do that. It's not perfect, but yes,
everything is results driven. You're not going to call me
to do the NY five hundred unless you think there's
a reason and you should do that, and that means
(42:01):
we're going to perform or anybody else, whether it's a
driver response or whatever it is. And so the pressure
to keep that going. You know, we just finished six
and eighth in the championship. That's the best we've ever
done in IndyCar and it took us eight years in
IndyCar to do that. Is not trivial. It's so difficult.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, but it's impressive, honestly because you're up against some big,
big teams, like the big machine teams that have a
lot a lot of money and a lot of resources
and manufacturer relationships that go back decades, you know. So
I think it's impressive what you've done. I'm going to
leave you on I was reading an ESPN article from
(42:45):
that was written by Marshall Prewet. I'm going to leave
you and the readers on this last quote, which I
thought was amazing. He says, in a world of petty
horners and wolves, be a mic shank And I love
that quote. So much because I think a lot of
people or should take that to heart.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Well, that's very that's very kind of Marshal to say that,
but we certainly try, we really do.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah. Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining me.
It was really interesting to hear a lot about your background.
I'm sorry we jumped around so much, but you know
you have my number for when you're going to do
the NASCAR thing and you need somebody to drive the endycuff. Ah.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, we'll see, we'll see what happens to anything possible exactly.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Stay warm up there in Ohio and I'll catchulater. Thanks mate, all.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Right, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Thanks for listening to Throttle Therapy. We'll be back next
week with more updates and more overtakes. We want to
hear from you. Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts
and tell us what you want to talk about. It
might just be the topic for our next show. Throttle
Therapy is hosted by Katherine Legg. Our executive producer is
Jesse Katz, and our supervising producer is Grace Feuce. Listen
(43:56):
to Throttle Therapy on America's number one podcast network, I
Heart Open your free iHeart app and search. Thrototherapy with
Catherine leg And start listening
Host
Katherine Legge
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