Celebrity Safety, Ice Protests, and Afro HOV - Guest Amy Torres

What's really going on inside Delaney Hall? Tamika D. Mallory and Mysonne sit down with Amy Torres, Executive Director of the New Jersey Alliance for Immigrant Justice, to break down the chaos at Newark's most controversial detention center, hunger strikes, elected officials being denied access, Mayor Ras Baraka's arrest, and the community uprising demanding answers.

NJAIJ is the state's largest immigration coalition, whose mission is to fight for policies that empower and protect immigrants. Recently Amy and NJAIJ were behind a package of Immigrant Protection bills that include a ban on 287(g) agreements and limitations on when law enforcement can collaborate with federal immigration agents.

Plus, the Kevin Hart roast debate and why some things just aren't a joke.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tamika d Mallory and.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
It shit Boy my son in general.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are your host of TMI.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, motivation and inspiration, new.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Name, new energy, put something Son Lennon, how you doing today,
I'm blessed.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
We cannot complain. Long weekend, but a good one. So
back back back.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
We have this pastive tourist season and have it entered
Gemini season. So that's where we are. Geminis are rising,
we have risen.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, I definitely celebrated the whole month in May. I
will bow out and allow the.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
To I'm only celebrated for two weeks and then that said,
I'm done. I'm not doing a whole month in June.
It's too expensive to celebrate.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I mean it is, but I think for me, in
my case, fifty is something that you said, celebrate the
whole month. You are a big celebration person. Like none
of my birthday. We might have a dinner or something
like that, but I don't really be like nah, I
really need to be involved with my birthday. And I
think this this year, celebrating making fifty, knowing so many

(01:15):
of my friends having made it for fifty, some of
them are incarcerated. At fifty I just literally just spoke
to one of my friends today has been in prison
for the last fifteen years, still fighting for his freedom.
So you know, it's a blessing every day, you know,
in the free world and above ground.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
So absolutely, it certainly is that. So let me just
tell you. You know, obviously people are deeply, deeply engaged in
this conversation around Kevin Hart's roast. It's still going on
at the roots picnic. I had the opportunity to have

(01:54):
some conversations with people who I will not name because
they didn't tell me to do so. But some of
them are in the field of the comic or comedian fields.
Some of them are celebrities in different different ways. And
you know, it was like main topic of discussion, and

(02:16):
I think that the consensus is this right here. The
consensus is that there's a few things that black people
hold the line on. First of all, you cannot, as
a white person just use the word nigga and nobody
say or do anything about it. That's just not going

(02:38):
to happen. The blacks are pretty consistent and unified that
white people cannot say nigga, even if there is debate
within our own community on whether or not we use it.
I can tell you right now that if Roland Martin
was in this conversation, he would say, you know, none

(03:02):
of us need to be using it. But that does
not mean that he'd be sitting here and let the
white man just use the use the language and be
okay with it. That's not a thing. So we are
largely unified around that. We are also largely unified majority

(03:22):
rule that you cannot call President and first Lady Obama
monkeys and do racist depictions of them. Again, there is
no unify there is excuse me no. Again, there is
no set rule that we all support and or agree

(03:45):
with the Obamas. So internally we have our own debate
on whether we feel that they did or that he
President Obama did enough for black people. Some of us
have the fact to back up what he did do,
and so we go back and forth on that and
this stuff that he does every day that I don't

(04:07):
agree with right now, but largely we as a community
are on the same page.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Delegations agreed.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
You cannot be out here trying to be racist and
put and and posting and doing and saying racist things
about the Obamas the third thing, and it's a list
and I'm sure if other people want to jump in
and put it in the comments section, the things that
the Black delegation has do that. But Black Delegation has

(04:45):
also largely agreed that we don't want George Floyd jokes,
rry nothing, leave him out of the conversation because George Floyd,
for us represents a lot of things, but he also
represents Ahmad Aubrey, Breonna Taylor, and George Floyd as this

(05:11):
one period of horrific, horrific murders and attacks against our people,
and then all of the racial violence, even if it
was verbal, that surrounds those three situations, and that it
sort of not so much culminates, but those things, the

(05:34):
tense nature of the time that we were in. When
you look at the uprising that took place as a
result of all of that, folks have real serious sensitivities
around George Floyd, real sensitive people almost lost their lives,
People did lose their lives out there sacrificing being a

(05:57):
part of the fight. Folks from all over the world
stood up for George Floyd. And I said this last week,
but I want to say it again and make sure
that it makes it to the air to the airwaves
that you know, George Floyd is not considerable, was not
considered a respectable negro. He was not in the category

(06:21):
of fairer skin college. So I don't know if you
went to college. I'm just saying, super college educated, blackmail
in fraternity, you know, in corporate clean background. He's not that.

(06:43):
And I think that makes it even more significant why
people stood up for him and said it matters not
to us his resume or his background or his rat sheet.
What matters to us is that we know how he
was killed, We know why he was killed, and we

(07:05):
know that the people who would like to oppress our
communities and would like to cause us harm, they support
the motherfucker that killed That's it, That's what we know.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh. I think that's I think that's part of the
larger framing of the conversation when you say that, right,
when we talk about this whole gross thing, I think
that people are a lot of people who are just saying, well,
it's just a joke, and he just said that and this.
I think that they're ignoring the fact that we're in
a time where people are normalizing racism, and they're utilizing platforms,

(07:39):
are utilizing their voices, they're utilizing social media to spread
the message to devalue the black person in the minds
of everyone, even us, right, because if they can say
so many things about you, they can say, oh, George
Floyd was this, Oh he deserved pretty much saying that
he deserves to die. It doesn't it doesn't matter. Why
would we defend him because he was nobody, He was

(08:00):
a bad person, he did wrong in his life, and
he deserved to die. And when we can devalue black
people and you can get somebody like Tony Henscliff that
can get up there and talk about him looking up
and saying, you know, can't breathe, and you can just
diminish the fact that he was killed in the way
he was killed and who he is, then you normalize

(08:21):
that behavior. And it actually is detrimental to us that
every person who might have this queen and I'm not
the person with the clean background, but it's detrimental to
you with the clean background, because once we normalize this
black people being killed, and we normalize that, we take
it as a joke. It's like they said, if you
if you're quiet, about your pain. Then they'll kill you
and say that you enjoyed it. Right, So if you

(08:44):
laugh at the murdering one of us, then they'll kill
you and say that it was funny. And I think
that that's what people are ignoring. This is this is
how it all starts. This is how it starts. It
starts by them devaluing you, and the dominic will make
it it seem like you nothing, and they going public
Lincoln keep saying it, and you just find and then
you become numb to it because you think, well, we

(09:04):
deserve to die. Black people are supposed to get killed.
Look because if they laugh at it, they even think
it's funny when we talk about them getting killed, you know.
So that's I think that's the larger.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Framesly And you know, people are saying, well, they also
said this about Charlie Kirk, and they also said this
about that person. And I've said on the show, I
don't think Charlie Charlie Kirk jokes are funny either. But
I just want to make sure that it is very
clear that Charlie Kirk and George Floyd are not the
same thing, and they were not killed for the same

(09:35):
reasons and so when we try to compare people who
may have died by natural causes and or they took
their own lives to a man who was murdered by
the system, who was murdered by the system that also
murders our people every single day, that even right now,

(09:59):
there are people who may not be dead by their
eyes closed, with no more breath in their body, but
the constant stripping of our rights and the choking of
our reality, our existence, and our freedom is murdering us.
It is in fact a genocide of its own kind
that happens in our community. And Derek Chauvin plays a

(10:21):
role in that he becomes one of the actors who
is able to take what is theoretical to reality, and
he did it to George Floyd in front of the world,
and you're not gonna tell everything, And.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
It leads into these things like when we can do that.
These people are actually trying to fight to get Derek
Sharvin a parted right. They wanted him to be released.
I heard over the weekend that they did a moment
of silence for Derek Sharvin in Minnesota. Like these are
real things, and if you ignore those things and you
don't see how these things, you know, this rose plays

(10:57):
into that, it gives value, It gives queening to their argument. Look,
even everybody thinks the Joe nobody cares about George Floyd.
Derek Sharvin is the victim he and Derek Sharvin needs
to be recognized. Derek Sharvin should be free. You know
these things. This is a serious phys and I.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Think that's the way that you know there is there
is the ongoing conversation again around the breadth of nasty
or inappropriate jokes that were made. And I think every
community that those people represent should be pissed off about
it if that's what they choose. So if there's a

(11:34):
group of people who want to say that they are
pissed off about some other thing, maybe people who are
in the community that really fights to deal with suicide
rates and you know, and try to help people who
are potentially suicidal. If those if that group, which I

(11:55):
probably would be in support of, decided to say, you
know what, we are going to pull our money from
said comedian, or you know, we want to at least
verbally express our disdain with this, they should be able
to do that. As a black woman who happens to
also be a black leader in this society who stood with,

(12:20):
stands with and has talked to families members of George
Floyd who are pissed off about what took place. I
have a right to be upset about what I'm upset about,
and what and what and what and what pisses me off.
Are people who try to tell us that we need
to be policed in terms of what what moves us emotionally.

(12:43):
I said this, and I will say it again in
my closing. I believe that the killing of Pamela Turner
in Houston, Texas was probably one of the most horrific
police shootings of my entire life. Brionna Taylor. Obviously we
know the reasons why what happened to Brianna Taylor is

(13:06):
not even just I mean, it's I don't even know
what language you would use to describe how terrible it
is for this young woman's life to be cut short
for absolutely nothing. In the case of Pamela Turner, this
is a woman who was mentally unstable or mentally or
had mental health issues, very severe mental health issues, and

(13:30):
the people in the community knew it, including the officer
who killed her and he shot her while she was
on the ground because she had been digging in the garbage,
and they claimed she was a disturbance to the community
and he shot her while she was on the ground.
This is an older woman who did not deserve to

(13:51):
die that way, and if you ask me, she should
have received the same type of outrage, if not more
than Brionna Tail, just because she was an elder who
was mentally unstable, who was killed in the way that
she was. Now, I don't want to get people confused.
Of course, every single case should receive Brionna Taylor, and

(14:11):
even Breonna Taylor should have gotten more. But what I
am the point I'm making is when you think about
the vulnerability of Pamela Turner, people should have turned the
streets of America upside down for that woman, and it
didn't happen. And you know what I tell people all
the time, that is because we do not get to

(14:32):
control what pushes the lever of the people. You have
to be willing to flow with it and try to
organize people. And it does not mean that we should
not continue to save Pamela turn his name, and it
does not mean that we will stop saying Brianna Taylor's name.
But what it does mean is that if you are
a good leader and a good organizer, you will keep

(14:52):
pushing all the issues, but you know how to utilize
the one that has sparked the emotion of the people,
that gets the people behind the fight and bring everybody
else along. That's what we did with George Floyd. When
George Floyd was killed, we went to his family members
and said, we want to be able to use what
is happening in Kentucky and tie it to Minneapolis. Bring

(15:15):
those two things together so that Breonna Taylor, as a
black woman does not get missed in the source of
the sandwich. Of the two black men Ahmud are Brey
and George Floyd. And you know what they were more
than willing.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
To do that.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
They become families. They support one another. And that is
because you have to be strategic about how we move
when unfortunately the news cycle will only give one or
two of us, if that the opportunity to express our
outrage on and show what is happening in our communities,
and so you don't get to control that. So guess

(15:49):
what the rose the George Floyd joke and Kevin Hard
they all catching it. And we can argue that Tony
Hencliff or whatever his name is, that he's problematic. He
is absolutely problematic. He's a racist that's over there with
the MAGA people because he called Puerto Rico a swamp
while on at the Trump MAGA rally in New York.

(16:09):
So we already know who he is and we can
say whatever we want about him. If you do something
to harm me in the community, we have a right
to speak to you about it as well too. And
that's just where we are, and that's it. And I
don't think I don't think people should not express their
outrage against Tony Hankcliff. I think he should know. And
if he's in a movie, we shouldn't go see it.

(16:31):
So I don't want to take up a lot of
time today on my thought of the day, because we're
going to be hearing from one of the leaders who's
been on the ground at Delaney Hall. For those of
you who do not know, Delaney Hall the detention center
that is housing holding people who are immigrants and folks

(16:52):
who have been picked up from ice. There are other
people in the jail. This particularly is a place where
folks who have been and kidnapped by the way by
ice agents are being held and she's going to be
on to talk about the uprising that is happening at
the detention center. You all may not see it on
your media outlets. I think the media is doing a

(17:15):
horrible job and probably conspiring in some ways to suppress
news about what's taking place there, because the more they
show it, the more people will show up. And so
I want to give the bulk of our time today
to talk to her and make sure that we all
understand how we can plug in a quick, quick, quick

(17:38):
part too to what I was talking about last week
last week in my Thought of the Day last week,
I talked about this idea that celebrities can be seen
with people considered to be white supremacists. That's the worst part.
They could be white supremacist, but maybe they could be
you know, white people who have harmed another group of

(18:00):
people in some way, and maybe some folks wouldn't consider
them be white supremacists, but you know, whatever, it all
kind of runs in the same vein. But nonetheless they
can be seen with those individuals. But then when it
comes to black liberation fighters, when it comes to you know,
people who have been labeled controversial in some way, and

(18:23):
by the way most of the time, when you get
down to the meat of it all, they're what is
considered controversy is being made that way because the folks
who are the white supremacists, the folks who are who
are actively engaged in harm in our communities, have told
you that this person is toxic just because they call

(18:44):
out they're bullshit. So you know, you could be seen
with them, but you can't be seen with these other groups.
So you can be at major events, sit in theater rooms, events,
big tables with folks who there's a laundry list of

(19:06):
things that they are doing or have done that is
harmful to your people, but any of your people who
speak out against that stuff, you cannot. You have to
isolate yourself. You don't want to be seen. It's gonna
mess up your deal, it's gonna mess up your brand,
it's going to impact you know, various projects and things

(19:28):
that you're working on. And so that is the balance
that these celebrities seem to find themselves in, and oftentimes
they choose the other side, the side of what is
considered safe by those who are determining what you can
and cannot do. And so that was my part one.
And then I saw people in the comments, and I

(19:49):
also got a couple of phone calls, and so I
wanted to come back with a part two. My part
two to this conversation is that one of the things
that people say as a response to that question is, well,
I don't know the information, you know, I just I

(20:09):
just don't know the information. So I'd rather just stay
away from politics, or I just stay away from, you know,
from from from being in certain spaces or with people
that I don't really know all the details. And I
and since I don't understand this, since this stuff feels
complicated to me, then I just think that it's better

(20:34):
not so much safe, I won't say, but it's better
if I just don't engage too much so I don't
get myself in trouble. And they'll say things like because
I saw what happened when so and so said a thing,
and you know, and they got in trouble for it
because they weren't right. Here's the deal, And I really

(20:56):
truly do mean this. It's not that people don't or
can't understand the issues, because if you could take a
script and read it study it, understand it, and become
the person literally transform yourself, your mind, your body into

(21:17):
a script and a persona that has been developed by
others for you. If you can have conversations on the
environment and other very very important issues. If you can
sit down in an interview and talk about life and

(21:39):
talk about creation and talk about your aspirations. If you
can do business at tables with people with sponsorships and
other major opportunities. If you can do all of those things.

(21:59):
When it comes to politics, when it comes to social justice,
you could do that too. You could understand that too,
if you take the same time to read and get
to know. Yes, sometimes I have to ask people questions
because I'd be like, those words might not make sense
to me. But I'm also not an actor who is
able to take a script and a persona and become

(22:19):
a whole different person. See if I was that, I'd
probably be quicker at sometimes I can read this stuff
and be like, oh, I get it. I understand right,
Because it takes a certain level of brilliance. It takes
a certain level of understanding and awareness in order to
be able to do some of the brilliant things that
we see entertainers and artists doing every single day. So

(22:42):
it's not that you can't understand it. It is that
what happens in your life, brother, sister, sibling, is that
it is where you invest your time in reading and
getting to know. But also you have a coach. Your
coach is there helping you with your acting skills. You
have an agent. Your agent is there helping to find

(23:03):
the best opportunities for you that align with who you
are and how quick you pick up certain things, whether
it be comedy or singing or whatever it is that
you're in. You have a manager who helps to kind
of keep everything flowing. You have you know, other people,
finance folks that help you make good decisions about your money.

(23:25):
You have people around you that help you in different ways.
And the thing that you likely lack or you have
and it gets the least amount of public support and attention,
is a person who understands your blackness and understands the
social justice causes that's happening in our society and is

(23:46):
helping you to develop that muscle as well. And more
than likely, the problem is that the agent, the manager,
the publicity person, and the other people around you who
help make your life go around. They are the ones
ostracizing those who do know the information and who could
help you to be more politically astute and more able

(24:09):
to speak to the issues that deeply impact the people
who help you stay rich and help you stay popping,
and help you stay flied. So what I would say
in this moment, as some celebrities and others are trying
to figure out the route that they can take so
that they can be present for the revolution and present

(24:30):
for the resistance in this moment, is you need to
look at whether or not your agents are the ones
who are the enemy even within your own camp. You
need to look at whether or not your manager is
the problem within your own camp. You need to look
at whether or not your agents and the people around
you the people who are running your business, and they

(24:52):
are the ones rocking you to sleep and stopping you
from being able to stand up for what you know
is right in this moment, and you may not do it.
And guess what, I'm not a person that sits around
demanding that celebrities do anything, because I have had my
run of the gaming in that world and I know
how it works. My friends that are celebrities, I appreciate

(25:13):
them for who they are. When they decide to chime in,
that's great, we do it. If they don't, I see you.
But I'm not going to go out in the world
and say that celebrities need to lead our movement because
that has not been the case. There have been some celebrities,
like a Harry Belafonte who dedicated his life to being
in this work, and we appreciate that, but we know

(25:34):
that that's not going to be the majority of people.
So I'm not here to shame you. But what I
am here to say is that if you know better,
you do better. And it's possible that the people who
are leading your worlds every day are the same people
who are making you less and less sensitive to the
needs of your people.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
I think you said it all. That's a mic dropt
right there. You know, it's about celebrity safety is a
myth to me, you know, because these same celebrities want
to be safe and they want to stay away from
politics until something happens to them. And we see it
all the time. You know, immediately when these same systems
that they tell you don't get involved in and they

(26:17):
come for you, they'll reach out to us and say, hey,
this is going on, how do we deal with this?
The way you should have dealt with is when we
actually had the energy to get behind it, and we
was pushing it because it would get us all free.
You know, That's what we don't understand a lot of times,
we think that we only need to speak up about
something when we are directly impacted, and we don't realize

(26:38):
that we're always directly impacted. You know. We talk about
families who've lost loved ones, families who lost loved ones
to the streets, to the system, to just who've been
murdered by government officials and police brutality. We talk about
all those things, but then people are silent, and then
when it happens to them, they want the same people

(27:01):
who they were silent about to stay with them, you know,
And I think it's very unfortunate that this is a
growing reality in our community with our people. So, you know, celebrities,
you'll be safe. You know, look at Candace Owens. You
know she was oh this and that now she said
they used them. You know, now the same movement is

(27:25):
calling you a black token. You know, you and you
need black people to stay with you. And before when
na a CP was standing against racism for you, you
needed them, then it always comes back, you know, So
I would just I don't.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Think that Candice almost feels that she needs black people.
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
I think what she does now because everywhere you she
go down, she looks like she didn't do an apology
to her she called.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
She apologized to a white man. She apologized to Joe
Biden's son. That's another white man. She has yet to
say to black people. I was wrong on George Floyd
issue that I should.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Never try her best not to have to see exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
So that's what I'm saying. I don't think that she.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Feels I think at this point she'll get back to
that she's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
When it happens, come back, he'll come today. I don't
agree that she thinks she needs black people. I think
that she feels like I think she still feels the
way she feels about black folks and black issues. But
her major concern is that some of the white people
don't support her the way that they used to. So

(28:31):
that's my opinion. All right, let's go to our guests.
All right, So we're joined today by a guest who
is going to help us unpacked. What is happening at
Delaney Hall, which is a detention center in Newark, New Jersey.
Now you may remember that several months ago our fearless leader,

(28:54):
Well let me not say that because I don't even
know what Rid's got going on right now.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
So go back.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
That Mayor Rasbaraka, who's been on this show several times,
was arrested at that detention center and it created obviously
a national crive which want to get him out, but
it also exposed what was happening. They're at the same
detention center, Delaney Hall. Since then, many elected officials and

(29:22):
leaders have been denied entry to do checks within the
and they're supposed to be able to, you know, anything
about the way the system operates. It is supposed to
supposed to. I don't know if it's all states, but
I know certainly in New York and New Jersey that
an elected officials should be able to show up to
do a wellness check at a prison or jail at

(29:44):
any time day or night. The two in the morning,
they're supposed to be granted entry. And so everybody included
the governor, who you know will talk more about her
role as of recent but she also was denied entry.
Now I see that they're starting to ow in the
jail again and allow for wellness checks, but nevertheless that

(30:05):
did not happen. There's much controversy around things happening at
the jail, hunger strikes by incarcerated individuals inside. There is
a lot and there is an uprising taking place in Newark,
New Jersey right now by people who are holding the
line and calling for accountability at the detention center. One
of the people who has been there is joining us today.

(30:27):
Her name is Amy Torres. She is executive director of
the New Jersey Alliance for Immigrant Justice and it is
the state's largest immigration coalition whose mission is to fight
for policies that empower and protect immigrants. Recently, Amy and
the NJAIJ were behind the package of immigrant protection bills

(30:52):
that includes a ban on two to eighty seven g
agreements and limitations on when law enforced can collaborate with
federal immigrant immigration agents. I just want to make sure
that anybody who missed that that we restated that the
bill to eighty seven g it bans local law enforcement,

(31:14):
so that's your local police department and other law enforcement agencies.
From collaborating with federal agencies so that you can isolate
the bad actors. Because what I see here, and I
know it's more to the bill, but what I see
what I see is, in fact, the collaboration has made

(31:35):
the situation worse at blame Hole. So, Amy, thank you
for joining us on the TMI show. I think we
framed it and now we'd love to invite you to
talk about where we started, how we got here, and
where we are now.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah. So you definitely started back a year ago, almost
to the date when maryor Baroco was arrested outside and
then when the Department of Justice put charges against our
Congressoman Lamonica mcgiver facing seventeen years in prison. Right, So,
Delaney Hall is the first immigration detention center opened by

(32:12):
President Trump once he returned to office. The owners of
Delaney Hall are this private prison corporation named Geogroup. Geogroup
probably sounds familiar because they've been talked about a lot,
but Geogroup is one of the first corporate packs to
max out their campaign spending in twenty twenty four, and

(32:32):
they max it out entirely to the Donald Trump reelection campaign.
We knew that there was an open ice request for
facilities way back under the Biden administration in twenty twenty four,
and we started raising the alarm about Delaney Hall because
we knew who Geogroup was and we knew it was
sitting empty. But the collaboration exists at all levels. Right,

(32:55):
we're going to get down to local law enforcement and
federal immigration enforcement. But here you have a mega million
dollar corporation giving money to a presidential re election campaign
and then being awarded one of the first contracts and
setting the tone for what immigration policy looks like in
the second term. And arrest of a mayor right opening

(33:18):
despite local laws and in in violation of local inspections,
no permits. And then when we have a congress Member
Lamonica mcgiver who's exercising her oversight authority. The constitution gives
her this authority, she's doing her job, they charge her,
and she's facing seventeen years in prison. So what happens

(33:41):
at Delaney Hall is an indicator for what happens everywhere
in every detention center. And I think a lot of
people feel surprised when they realize, you know, Alligator Alcatraz
may be in one place, but Delaney Halls a stone's
throw from New York City, and the reason that it's
there is that it's incredibly close to NewYork Liberty International Airport,

(34:05):
where Geogroup also has an Ice air transfer contract. So
the web between how money functions and how profit is
a piece of all of this cannot be ignored. So
now let's move to local law enforcement. Let's say I
get pulled over because I have a broken tail light,

(34:29):
not that serious. I would get a ticket or a
summons or something like that. Maybe I get profiled as
having something else or something else is said about me
driving at night, whatever I'm charged with over the course,
without interaction with local police. They can then make the
determination should I hand amy over to immigration enforcement or

(34:53):
not based on the charge alone. And Mikey Cheryl signed
some bills early this winter that effectively said, we really
shouldn't be doing that, but sometimes you can do it,
and you can do it for certain violent or serious offenses.

(35:14):
But what that means is that when we have a
police force and a state police force that's racially profiling
one of the most diverse states in the country. Keep
in mind it's New Jersey where a state trooper was
on the payroll with a Nazi tattoo across his neck
for a long time before media paid attention to it.
When you have a racist police force in one of

(35:35):
the most diverse states in the nation, and it's charges
alone that can hand you over to a permanent consequence
like ice, you can guess what police want to do.
All right, I'm going to overcharge this person because I
know it's going to fail in the courts, but before
it even gets to court, I'm going to skip over
the entire due process and just hand them over to
immigration enforcement.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
This is deadly.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
It is everything that we hate about the criminal legal system.
That is the ceiling for what immigration detention looks like.
And I'll give you another example. There was a man,
John Wilson Brutus just a few days before Christmas last year.
He entered Delaney Hall and with two within twenty four hours,

(36:20):
he was dead, a healthy forty year old man. His
death was not announced for days later. His family demanded
an independent autopsy, but nothing came of it. Because that's
who these corporations are. It's all about who do you
get in the door. There's a drop in the bank account,

(36:41):
and then if you get someone out the door. Well,
hopefully we'll just get a couple more in to take
their place.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Wow. So, you know, I was part of the protest
when Rasparaka was arrested. I was one of the people
outside at the protest, and I seen how you know,
it was a growing call for people to release him
and just actually for people to allow the state to
govern how De Laney Hall was run. You know, they

(37:08):
were saying that it wasn't run within the procedures of
New Jersey, that they weren't complying with anything. So now
that we have this new protest, what is the foundation?
You know, I'm watching I see now that the National Guard.
It looks like the National Guards out there. They have
riot gear, they have all this. Why are they out there?

(37:30):
I seen a man getting arrested. A young man was speaking.
He was a black guy, and I heard him explaining
that this is what black people have been experiencing for
four army Unfortunately. You know, I'm glad that everyone is here,
but this is what we've been telling y'all for years.
And the next thing I know, he was snatched up.
So kind of give me some insight onto the reason
why right now they're protesting and you know why this

(37:54):
why has this been this uptick in the way that
the police are dealing with the people out there who protests.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah, you know, in the earlier segment you were talking
about like we don't get to choose what things the
media picks up and doesn't And sometimes they pick up
stuff and run and they get it wrong often. And
I think what's really interesting with Delaney Hall is that
immigration has become such a popularly unpopular thing. And we

(38:22):
had a story about the largest hunger strike on the
East Coast at the largest immigration detention, one of the
largest in the country, but certainly the largest here on
the East Coast, three hundred people going on strike, and
that made a lot of news, right, But then the
subsequent response was, let's make sure that these protests about

(38:44):
something that's really legitimately wrong don't get out of hand,
because if we do, the National Guard is going to
come in. And so you have all of these people
activated again around these systems for profit, these systems of unfairness,
the system built on racial capitalism, activated again. And because

(39:05):
there's a threat from Washington and Bevino tweeting from his
phone when he's on a layover in Newark, suddenly we
have New Jersey State police in the street, shoving people around,
deploying tear gas, using flashbangs, and last night circling up
around them and arresting over forty people, including some people

(39:27):
who are both credentialed and citizen press. So I think
there's a moment here where people are back in the
streets of New Jersey's largest city, our most diverse city,
and they're remembering what it was like to be back
in the streets in twenty twenty over the same things,

(39:47):
and they're seeing everything that we said was supposed to change.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
I had a really tough moment last night because you know,
the city of Nork and acted a curfew. They said
it was at nine pm and for a half mile
radius around Laney Hall. I had a really good friend
call me and he said, Amy, no one is answering
my phone call. I'm trying to comply, and I don't
know where to go. I'm outside the barricade and they
keep telling us leave. I walked down to Ramus Avenue.

(40:17):
I saw two vans ful of police and riot gear,
and I decided to go back to the barricade because
at least there were less cops there, he went to
the other intersection. I'm on the phone calling every public
office that I know, asking where does the curfew zone stop?
Because what we have is a mass protest where police
are ready to kick your ass or spray you in

(40:40):
the face to get you out of there. But we
also have counter protesters and infiltrators who are actively doxing people.
We have a MAGA rally that started on Saturday, but
infiltrators who've been posting footage of the protests since last Tuesday.
So you're telling tell me that in order for someone

(41:01):
to run away from police violence, they have to run
into the night where someone else might be waiting to
cause them harm.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
It's it.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
I grew up in West Texas, and it's it triggered
like Sundowntown stuff like I remember. I remember I grew up.
I thought, moms always drive, Moms always go, moms always
drive on road trips because my dad's Filipino and he
didn't want to drive through these small towns. He wanted
my mom driving. And I just cannot believe that feeling,

(41:34):
that formative feeling that I had growing up is something
that I'm experiencing in twenty twenty six in New York,
New Jersey, simply because we cannot meet well, let me
not say we the government cannot meet the needs and
demands of the hunger strikers, and therefore they're doing everything
in their power to suppress the people supporting them.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Who would just say, are some of the lead organizers
out there? It's okay not to say if you think
that's also the best strategy, but who would you say,
are some of the lead organizers that people can tap
in with if they want to support, if they want
to show up. And also, I guess the next question
would be what is the is there is there a

(42:19):
plan now that we are seeing more attempts from city
and state government to sort of I don't want to
say diminished, but more so contained and as you said,
push back the protest. What is the plan is it
for more people to show up? Are people saying maybe

(42:41):
folks shouldn't be there as to not cause more law
enforcement to engage? What would you say?

Speaker 3 (42:51):
So, there's no movement in history that hasn't been one
without a diversity of tactics, right, And I think looking
back we kind of flatten and okenize who the leaders
were who pushed this who you know. There's history is
written by the victors, or at least like the people
most visible in the fight. And I really want to
say that this fight at Delaney Hall and this fight

(43:14):
against attention in New Jersey has a very very long
history and has included so many sectors. I mean, we
have people going after the food distributor at Delaney Hall.
We have people tracking who's leasing the vans to ICE.
This is really a multi effort fight, but it's centered
around the demands that people on hunger strike have put out.

(43:37):
They've said this is their last resort. They want to
be released. They want to start with the medically vulnerable,
the elderly, and the youth. There are people in Delaney
Hall right now with disabilities. There's a blind man in
medical isolation. ICE is calling it medical isolation. You and
I call it solitary confinement for being blind. There's a

(44:00):
man with cancer, he has a terminal illness, he has
a projected life expectancy, just wants to spend it with
his family, and he's in Delaney Hall. These are their
last resort.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
It's day.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Eleven now of the hunger strike and they're asking for releases.
Governor Cheryl has said, Look, if we de escalate, we
can restore visitation hours. Visitation hours stopped because of the strike.
People don't go on strike because of visitation. Visitation hours
were withheld as a means of retaliation. And it's very

(44:39):
clever to say restore visitation hours because you want to
guess how many people actually visited their loved ones yesterday?
Five people got in.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Two units, including the unit with the highest number of
people on strike and the women's unit, are locked down.
Five people got in. So when we're negotiating with ICE
about what is acceptable or not acceptable behavior, we have
to remember this is an agency that is built on lies.
It is designed to deceive and defraud people.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
They say they need.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
New Jersey Police to escort them during the shift change.
This is the largest private prison company in America. If
anyone can afford overtime, you don't think it's them. Look
at the budget ICE already has and they're asking for more.
You think that agency can't afford a little bit of overtime.
We can't negotiate with liars, but what we can do

(45:40):
is uplift the demands of people on hunger strike who
are saying we need to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, so what do you need, Like, where do people.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Go?

Speaker 3 (45:52):
People need to call Mikey Cheryl because she might not
be able to go inside, but she has to make
sure that no one else goes in before her.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
But only the impression that yesterday Congressman, Congressman Jeffreys and
some others were allowed in. Yeah, are they preventing the
governor and allowing congressional leaders.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
So congressional leaders are allowed to go in again. Sometimes
they made Representative Rob Menendez sleep in the rain last
Friday night. But they do have constitutional authority to go inside.
The governor doesn't. And that's you know, that's part of
the constitution. But here's what is within Governor Cheryl's power.

(46:35):
She has a state funded legal services program that is
only meeting eighteen percent of detention and deportation needs on
the ground right now. Eighteen percent. That program needs money.
We're about to have the World Cup. There's no investment
in know your Rights. What's going to happen to all

(46:55):
of the international tours? Much less people coming from across
New Jersey across the region to watch these games or
go to fan parties and be profiled by the same
immigration officers that are currently pushing people into eighteen wheelers.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
We need fully funded legal services. We need to close
the loopholes that do allow local police to collaborate with ice.
Delaney Hall would be nowhere near as full if we
weren't having our local pd do the job of immigration
officers for them.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
That's how we support you.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
So there's a lot of I mean, you know, open
your phone, there's a million different requests. I think everyone
can do something. My priority is always going to be
the families. There are people who are actively getting released.
There were people who were released after retaliator retaliatory attack,
and it's only because their bond funds started getting honored.

(47:52):
There's amazing bond programs in New Jersey for Friends of
New Jersey and New York. In New York and Vision
Freedom Fund, same thing, and we get people transferred from
New York all the time and back and forth. So
you're giving to one, you're really helping all. We need
legal services. We need the governor to fund them. You

(48:12):
don't have a right as a non citizen. When you're
a US citizen, you have a right to an attorney.
When you're not, you can get an attorney but you
have no right to a publicly funded one, and your
chances substantially increase when you have an attorney on your
side in immigration jail, because otherwise the consequences are permanent.
You're never getting out or you're getting deported. So I

(48:36):
think you know it is again when we are negotiating
the false urgency of what Ice says and what escalation is,
we're ignoring what can actually be done. Will people still
be protesting if Delaney Hall is empty? So let's get
let's get to work on emptying it out. Get a
lawyer for every person inside, right, we need every elderly

(48:59):
person out, we need every young person out. We need
everyone with a chronic illness or who's on medication management.
We need them out, and we need attorneys to get
them there so that we can work toward everyone else
who has a chance to not be detained. So, you know,
I think the state police response has been so unfortunate

(49:21):
because it just affirms all of the things that we
already know about these broken systems, and it allows politicians
to come to quick or easy solutions that de escalate.
But there's still people on strike inside and that's not
that's not going away. Even if New Jersey State police

(49:43):
pulled out today, those folks are still on strike and
it's day eleven, and you know, transfers are happening all
the time, people are getting sick all the time. It's
it's it's unfortunate. It's a lose lose situation for everyone.
But I see New Jerseyans, I see New Yorkers. I
see everyday people taking every possible action they can. I

(50:07):
don't always see my state government doing that.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
I think this is you know, this is paramount to
the issue. Right now, we talk about politics, and we
talk about elections and we tell people to go vote
right these are the issues that we have. I was
listening to our friend Jolly Goodginger and his frustration this
morning on his Live and him expressing, how, you know,
it's not about partisan, it's by price should be a

(50:32):
bipartisan effort that we talk about the right things. We've
elected people on the left and we went and these
people they come and they advocate and they tell you
this is who I'm going to be and I'm going
to do this, and then when it comes time, they're
so far to the middle they want to be, you know, bipartisan.
They want to be politically correct and not just do
the right thing for the people, the constituents who actually

(50:54):
vote for them. So it's very disheartening when you have
the state police, you know, conducting the type of you know,
kettle thing with the with the people in the streets
and and actually participated with ice. It's just it really
demoralizes us as voters, as individuals because it's like we
know right from wrong and we can't get we can't

(51:17):
actually elected officials that are willing to just do the
right thing all the time. It always have to compromise
and and and and and sacrifice the people who are
actually on the right side of history. So you know,
I applaud you and everyone who's out there, you know,
because I understand the sacrifice is taken. You know, we've

(51:37):
done in many days and probably we'll probably be out
there eventually to come down to the stand with the people.
But it's just really disheartened. You know, continue to fight,
continue to work because you're on the right side of history.
So we just want to say thank you for being
here and whatever we can do to amplify you and
and help the people in Delaney Hall and people outside
of Delaney hall, we're here to do it.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, there's so many people
doing all kinds of work on the ground. There's almost
no effort you can plug into. That's wrong at this point.
But at this at this juncture, it's not what people
are doing to support people. It's what our government is
doing to us.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
And where are they doing their jobs? Not asking them
to do something that is not already a part of
their jobs. And I think that's important because I see
people saying, well, what are they supposed to do? Just
their jobs? Just use your imagination, right, and there's power,
there's power, and being the governor of a state, you know,
I've also you know, I've been called by a few

(52:39):
people who have concerns about the city and how Maya
Baraka is engaged in this situation in which I told him,
you know, send me what you want me to send him,
because he's always open to listen, and here he is not.
So it is not a what do you call it?
He's not bulletproof, like you know, he's a human person

(53:00):
who can hear other people with ideas, concerns and suggestions.
But we need to treat him like an elected official.
We shouldn't treat him like you know, he's he has,
he applied for a job, he's been elected to it,
and if there's a problem, we have to go to
him and talk to him and let him know what

(53:20):
the problem is, you know, because when the folks called me,
it was almost like, hey, I know that may of
Baraka's your friend, and I don't want and I'm like,
get to the point so I can go to him
and say, hey, man, this is what the folks are saying.
What can we do to ensure that nothing we do
and say harms the people who are righteously president. And

(53:44):
so I'm just waiting on folks to send me a
good little letter so I can shoot it on over all.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
Right, let me get it for you today. Actually, But yeah,
I mean it's always it is. You are going to
always say the wrong thing when you're engaged in the
wrong argument. And right now it's about who can de escalate.
Should it be ice who de escalates, Should it be
the national Guard who de escalates? None of us want
the national Guard there. I don't want to see myself

(54:10):
or my friend. You know, I got shoved in front
of a car by immigration officers the same day that
Senator Kim was sprayed. We don't want that. I don't
want to see my friends hit with sandbags. I don't
like seeing my friends getting tear gassed. But we're already
in a false choice. People are protesting because the demands
inside are not being met. To meet the demands, that's it.

(54:32):
And then there's nothing better to de escalate a situation
than making sure the job is done. And that's just
not where folks are right now.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Not folks could do better job. I mean it's very clear,
and I know it's she's new, but that's how the
job works. Soon as you get in problems are like
day one, like that's just that's the nature of a
Mayam of Donnie has had to accept that reality. In
New York day one, people are like waiting for this,

(55:01):
you know, beautiful moment when you feel comfortable in your seat,
you sit down. Several weeks, several moments later, they can
be major crises and she could do a better job
to help ensure that. Again, as Mysan said, what you
ran on is exactly how you behaved in this position.
And we know that that you know she was able

(55:26):
to win by saying she would be a protective of
the people, and guess what, the people outside and inside
should both be included in that theory. And so, you know,
so we we want to push her to do what's right,
and we shouldn't be afraid to do that.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Obviously the city government they can do but so much.
But there's more that can be done by everybody that's
involved to protect the citizens of New Jersey.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
I fully agree. I fully agree the citizens and non citizens.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Thank you so much, Amy Torres. Thank you for director
of the New Jersey Alliance for Immigrant Justice. We appreciate
you and we want to have you back to keep
us updated and we will at until Freedom. We've already
sent some folks, but we'll be out there to work
with you all and to see how we can support.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Yeah, we'll see you there.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Thank you much love for Amy Torres joining us and
just you know, updating us about what's going on inside
Newark at Delaney Hall. I've been watching just on the
news and it's really intense. You know, we've been in
those situations, so we understand how serious it is, how
scary it is. But when you understand that you're standing

(56:44):
up for something that is right, you know, you're willing
to sacrifice. So I want to just comend everyone out
there once again. Our brother Jolly Good Ginger's out there.
He's been heckled by MAGA supporters. Some guy even threatened
him almost it looked like he was about to get
into a fight out there. But I've seen his frustration
and today, you know, when he was just talking about
how this you know, this system and the elected officials

(57:07):
and the people who are supposed to be for us
aren't doing what they're supposed to do. And if people
are going to have to have some level of revolution,
it's not going to be They're not going to do
it because we ask them to do it or because
we vote for them. This he's saying right now. If
you're looking at this government, if you're looking at what's
happening at the Lady Hall, if you're looking at what's
happened around this country with voting rights, if you're looking

(57:27):
at anything, and you don't understand the moment that we're in,
if you don't understand that the revolution and that those
people who are the freedom fighters and those people who
actually want to see the beloved community and want to
see a just country are going to really have to
stand up and fight, you know, So shout out to
him because we know how how pure as hert is

(57:50):
and how when you talk about white people who are
supposed to be allies, you know, and co conspirators and
co defendence, he's one of those individual So you know,
I just see him actively. It's like I was having
this conversation with you before a lot of our leaders
got to a point where they just were frustrated because

(58:11):
they didn't see didn't see the people understand the seriousness
of a moment. And that level of fatigue happens when
you're when you're a freedom fighter, when you somebody that
sees everything, you like, why aren't people fighting? You know,
a lot of leaders have become what we call, you know,
quote unquote sellouts because what happens is they've been fighting

(58:32):
for the system and fighting for people so long that
they don't see the people fight. So they say, you
know what, I'm not gonna fight for you when you
ain't gonna fight for you. I'm gonna go on and
get me a couple of dollars and I'm gonna move
into the sunset because I don't sacrificed too much and
even though that's not a mentality we would have, but
I'm telling you that's what happens with a lot of
our leaders.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Absolutely I have something to say about that, but we'll
do it on a different show at a different time.
This conversation I was in this morning, I saw a
post and a post said they're looking for liberation and
we're looking for a revolution. We are not the same.
And it was a group of black women, younger black

(59:12):
women in politics who are saying they're looking for a revolution,
and just it kind of flows what you're saying. But anyway,
I will not be labor and that.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Brings me to my I don't get it for today.
So you know, as we mentioned, we were at the
Roof's Picnic this week. It was amazing. It's like a family.
If you've never been to the Roofs Picnic, you should
go there. It's thousands of people, three different stages with
some of your favorite artists performing on different stages at
different times. Food is really just like a black Fathly reunion.

(59:45):
And shout out to our brother Tyler Quaali, shout out
to Dave Chappelle, brother Kenny Burns. A lot of people
that I haven't seen in a long time. You know,
it was just it was an amazing event and I
see bring he performed, seen day I sold before. You know,
I've seen Tai live perform. You know, I love to

(01:00:08):
watch him before. So there's a lot of people I
see performance. Unfortunately, I didn't stay for the second day
because my fatherly duties called oats, had to get back
and be a soccer dad on Sunday. But everyone knows
that jay Z and the Roots performed and it was
it was one of those nostalgic moments when jay Z

(01:00:31):
came out there as afro Hove and afro Hove had
a lot to say. He kicked it off with this
freestyle and it's gone viral. People been talking about the freestyle,
which he addressed a lot of different individuals who have
been saying things about him, disparaging things about him, his family,

(01:00:53):
you know, people who have tried to get him arrested,
people who have put cases on them, people who have
you know, try to co sign things that put him
in the most negative light ever. And you know a
lot and most times, as we know, jay Z is
very solid. He very rarely says anything, but he'll come
out in the verse here and there. Now, a couple

(01:01:16):
months back, he did an interview with this young man.
He was talking about how he didn't think there was
room for battle rap in the culture anymore because of
that got you know, so that alluded it became dangerous,
and it was and people were picking sides and it
was it was kind of dangerous. And he had made
that comment, you know, and in light of him making

(01:01:39):
this freestyle after Root's picnic, a lot of people came
back with that about him saying about how he didn't
think there was room for battle rapping anymore, you know,
based on his freestyle which people considered battle rap. So
for my I don't get it, right, I don't I
don't get how people think what he did was battle rap, right.

(01:02:01):
I think what he did was a response to disrespect,
not just disrespect, but to things that harmed him and
his family. You know. It's just like doing an interview
and you say things and you talk about and you
express your feelings. I don't think he was trying to
battle anyone. I think the people that he talked about

(01:02:23):
has did things that got on his skin that had
he been in their face, that might have been a
violent confrontation. I think the things that he spoke about
that people have said about him and disparaged him, and
people the way people have trampled over his name for
the last couple of years. I think it was a
human response. I don't think it was battle rap, you know.

(01:02:44):
And I think and even though if you do think
it's batter rap, I think it was called for. I
don't think. I don't think he's interested in going to
a back and forth with anybody. You say averse, I
say averse, and we get to compare it and this
and that. I think the people that he's talking about
he has no interest in mending the friendships. He has

(01:03:05):
no interest in just you know, peaceful competition with you.
I think he has deemed these people on the other side,
these people are his ops, right, and he's speaking to
them and letting them know that he sees them and
this is what he thinks of them, you know. So
I don't think it's bad rep. So I don't know
why people say it's batterle webs. No, it's not bad rap.
It's a rapper utilizing his platform, utilizing his skill set

(01:03:30):
to talk about things that really bothered him because he wasn't.
He was talking about Tony Buzzby, the person who put
these cases on him. He talked about Tory Lanez and
his father who who have blamed Rock Nation for everything
that's going wrong in his life. He talked about his
long lasting few with his formal business partner, you know, Dang,
who has said what he had to say back and

(01:03:51):
forth about jay Z. You know. He talked about Osquino,
who gets on platform that says what he wants about
jay Z and these and the things that they're saying.
And it's not like yo, you can't rap and not
rap better than you and this and that. They're talking
about his family, they're talking about him as a man,
they discredit him, And I think at this point it
was a response, you know, And I think that's just

(01:04:11):
human nature. I think as a man, if you don't
respond to some of those things that were said, you know,
people are gonna have to have some level of question,
you know. And jay Z usually does a response to
a lot of people, they say, but they knew eventually
that there would be a verse that comes out. Will
you get a ball? You get two bars of him

(01:04:32):
expressing how he feels about what you said. About him,
you know, so I really don't get while people are
all you said, no, he's what he's saying is in
the essence of battle rappers. Now, when you look at
the Drake and the Kendrick situation and you see how
the world was so divided as two dope artists were
back and forth, and I don't think he says it.

(01:04:53):
So these people don't really have a beef. They just
don't like each other. They think they're better rappers than
the other person. You know, they might or they might
not really like each other, but they don't have a
beef to where is they want to see each other,
want to fight each other prior to this, Drake might
want to fight Kendrick now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Because you call.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Yeah at that point, because I think I think it went.
I think it went further than it probably should have.
You know, I think I think that they have grown
to be a level of animosity. But it's it started
on hip hop, right. The beef that they have had
started on hip hop. It started with probably, oh you

(01:05:32):
think you as good as me. I think I'm better
than you, so I'm rap better. And then what happens
is immatured. So when you start hearing things, you know,
getting dirt on someone. Oh they say he mess with
underage girls, or they say he do this and that.
You add that to your catalog. So now when you
battle it, we're done separated because there's this this war
for who is the top rapper. And now I'm growing

(01:05:53):
not to like you. Now there's growing animosity. So now
I'm gonna say this and that back and forth about you,
you know, and then that it morphs into that. And
I think that's what Jay was saying. I think he's saying,
at that level of competition breathes nothing but disrespect that
divides the whole culture, you know, And I think at
his age he would rather not compete with anybody, especially

(01:06:16):
in that regard. But I think he's saying, y'all, people
have disrespect and play with my name so much, and
you keep playing with my name like I'm not who
I am. You know what I'm saying. So I'm gonna
give you a ball, but this ain't no battle rap
back and forth. We me and you gonna go ball
for ball, and I'm gonna make a song like I
did with nas. No. I don't think. I don't think.

(01:06:38):
I think he believes that the culture is too far
gone at this point to have that level of battle rap.
That's just my perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I think that it's not battle rap. I think it's
battle marketing. I think that on one side, he definitely
decided that, you know what, I don't let y'all just
shoot shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot shoot, And at some
point I'm gonna say what I want to say on
my platforms in spaces that you know, feel like the

(01:07:12):
right moment for me to address things. Because, by the way,
it's not that Beyonce doesn't say anything about what people
say about her. She just puts in her music right Like,
you'll see different moments when in her music, even she's
even talking about her own husband and things that have
happened in her relationship she might not address at all,

(01:07:34):
but she does find a way to let you know
that she's tapped into the culture. And you know, he
in that particular moment, what I saw is a person
who's like, I don't generally do shows like this, but
when I do, I need to be my authentic self,
and my authentic self feels like f some people and

(01:07:56):
I'm gonna say it. But it's also a marketing too.
Because that roots picnic moment is the precursor to the
Yankee Stadium and I think probably will be Barclays, but
definitely the Yankee Stadium concerts. And all it does is

(01:08:17):
get people excited that they don't know what more he
might say or what other people are gonna do in
retaliation of it, and it just builds up more and
more energy. The one thing that the rock nation world
knows how to do is market anything, even a crisis.

(01:08:37):
That's what they do well. They know how to jay
Z is not even actively on social media, and yet
he's the biggest thing being discussed on social media often
a lot, not just when he did something that gets
talked about. But if you bring him up, people know

(01:08:59):
what they say. If you talk about me, you'll get
some attention, because when you talk about yourself, ain't nobody
paying attention. And so jay Z is one of those
people that just by bringing him up, people are going
the algorithm will in fact push it and there will
be a response. And so he knows that. And they're
about to have these big concerts. They've got people people,

(01:09:21):
by the way, people already paid for these tickets from
the lowest number because I've seen some tickets. At first,
I was like, what kind of prices are these? But
then I see that their tickets at different levels. That
makes it accessible and also some super expensive stuff. And
people want to show and the show. It's like, what's
it called? Four play? The show does not begin when

(01:09:45):
you get there on July. Whatever day the show began,
the four play happened at the Roots Picnic. And it's
greasing you up and getting you all hot and heavy
so you can be excited to see what's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
Reason you are? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
I mean, we're grown on this show. Reason you up
and getting you nice and hot, heavy and ready for
Yankee Stadium.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
That's it, that's all. That's battle marketing. I met what
I said. I'm not looking to go back and forth
with you because I said what I said, and that's
pretty much. And you can do what you want because
you got your own voice. That's cool. But I met
what I said. That's the battle, and the marketing is here.
Come get a little more of it over in July.
You get the ticket, yet it's a few left up

(01:10:36):
there the top.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Get you on, get you some, get you some. That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
It's not it's not hard to understand, and the man
does he listen. You know us, we go to rock
Nation and walk in the door and get the argue
on with several people about whatever. We We always debate,
we be we debate. I've been debating with Charlemagne all weekend.
You debate with him too. We all have debate, and

(01:11:05):
I mean all. I'm on a chat of black people
right now. That's what I was talking about. You're looking
for liberation and I'm looking for and others are looking
for revolution. We in the debate right now, up right
now about what is the right way to approach X,

(01:11:25):
Y and Z. And the debate is strong, it is.
There is no lack of sometimes contention, but definitely pushing
pull between black folks and our and our you know,
groups and silos and all the places where we exist.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
I was on a call last night shout out to
Win with black Man, and you know, it's always interesting
and just humbling just to be a spaces with elected officials.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Jim Conver was on the call, Marc Morio was on
the call out of the you know, the major players
and you know, and they asked my opinion, and when
I come with my opinion, it's always rooted in the
streets and the culture and just the barber shops, the
basketball course with the average individual from our community is
and they were very receptive to it, even though it

(01:12:15):
didn't coincide with the way that they normally do things,
and they respected it, you know. And he shot in me.
They said, Yo, to do the chat is going crazy,
they say, And that's what we need. We have been
hoting this brother. That's the boys. That's what we're talking
about right there. So you know, it's just different kinds
of strategies. Historically, we've done things different, you know, And

(01:12:35):
I think that's why we created Until Freedom. It's not
that we didn't respect anybody else's strategies for liberation or
revolution or how they thought it was they should go
about it. We just wanted we just had our own
ideology of how it should go, and we wanted to
employ and you know and unite with other individuals and

(01:12:58):
give space and voices to the people who who felt
our ideology. So that's the moment we're in. Like Amy
just said, you know, it's gonna take all different methods
and strategies for us to get where we need to go.
Before I end this show. I want to give a
shout out to my brother Tariq aka Black Thought for
giving me those tickets to the Roots Picnic and extending

(01:13:21):
the hospitalities. One of my favorite lyricists and also one
of my favorite people, one of the dopest individuals in
the world, my salutory brother. I'm mad that I didn't
stay for his performance, but I had to get back
and be a daddy. But love you, tweek. Keep going
doing what you do. That brings us to the end
of another episode of TMI. Shout out to Amy Torres,
the executive director of the New Jersey Alliance for Immigrant Justice.

(01:13:44):
Thank you for the updates and information about what's going
outside the Ladyhorn, Newark. Shout out to everyone who has
always supported us, making us a number one, I mean
number one podcast in the world. Make sure you follow
us on Instagram at TAMI Underscore Show. Make sure you
follow us on YouTube at TMI Show PC. I'm not

(01:14:05):
gonna always be right to make it the malories and
I can always be wrong, but we will both always
and I mean always, be authentic. Babe.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Listen to the TMI podcast on the Black Effect Network,
on iHeartRadio, or anywhere podcasts are available, or

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
Catch the video version on YouTube at TMI show PC