Honoring Rev. Jesse L. Jackson Sr., Epstein Files Trauma, and the SAVE Act’s Voter Suppression Threat (with Rev. Mark Thompson & Afua Atta-Mensah)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tamika D.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Mallory and it shit Boy my Son in general.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are your host of TMI.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, Motivation and Inspiration, New.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Name, New Energy. What's going on? My song?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Lennond, I am Black, Blessed and Holly Favorite Tamika Days.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the TMI Show. Okay, that's what it is.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Motivation and inspiration.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's what's up. So we have a lot going on today.
You know, as we this week has been a heavy
week because we have had the loss of now our ancestor,
Reverend Jesse L. Jackson Senior. And you know, I have
known Reverend Jackson since I was a very very very

(00:47):
very little girl, and so the memories keep flowing. At times,
there's tears, at times, there's just moments when I'm laughing uncontrollably,
like literally, because he was a fun guy. And it's
so much the history. It makes you want to read back.
It just makes you want to look at old pictures.
It's so much. I'm not really good at finding pictures.

(01:08):
I don't know how people do it right. When folks
pass away, it seemed like people have one hundred pitches
on ready because maybe I don't know what they do.
Maybe somebody needs to teach me. Because in my phone,
I have photos that go back to twenty and twelve.
Like when I'm looking for stuff, I can go all
the way to twenty and twelve. I could not tell

(01:29):
you where to find one picture of one person. The
only reason why I knew where to find the two
pictures that I posted of Reverend Jackson. Meanwhile, over the
years I have a gazillion, but those two pictures I
knew because one Reverend Mark Thompson, who's going to be
coming up to talk to us in a moment, he
sent me a picture. There's a story behind it. And

(01:51):
then the other picture is from something a place where
I saw him in August of twenty twenty five, and
I remembered that they came and got me off the stage.
I was getting ready to be the keynot speaker at
the Chicago Bar Association gala, and I was as I
was getting ready to speak, they came and got me

(02:11):
and said that Reverend Jackson had just come in and
he wanted to see me. And I went down off
the stage and went over to where he was. And
so I remembered that that happened, because the other thing
that I remembered is that he was ailing. You know,
you could tell that he had his time was limited,
and so that that I just I just you know,

(02:32):
that stuck in my head and I'm like, I know
that date was so then I had to go look
up what was the date based upon the invitation that
was in my email, and then go to the phone
and I found it. I don't know how you do
that to twenty and twelve. I don't know, but people
know they do it all the time. Yeah they do.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I mean it's I figured out because you have time.
They have like year, date and all of that in
your phone.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
I get it. But what if you don't know what
year was that I took a picture.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
With, Well, you gotta know you got you gotta kind
of narrow it down because when I'm thinking about I
was just asking about, you know, the video that we
have him when you know the conviction of Derek Chauvin.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I don't know what it is. But my phone don't
recognize people's face because they don't they don't be doing
it sometimes, Like if I put my sign, nine hundred
million thousand photos come up.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
If I put like certain places I don't have to
put like people like it's like ten Linda and Ngelius,
my kids. Everybody, their faces is already in my people
so as soon as I touch one of their faces,
all the things come.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Up, so every body is not in there that way.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
So yeah, you just gotta I think what you do
is narrow the times, like you know, certain times and
events if you're like, Okay, I was with this person
at this event, what day was that?

Speaker 3 (03:46):
What year was that? And then you narrow it to
the year.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yes, so but I'm not really well. First of all,
you know, I don't really like taking pictures, and I'm learning.
I'm learning because my mentor, core Mass is Barry. She
loves to take pictures, and I'd be like, oh my god,
I don't want to take any more pictures. I hate
taking pictures. But as time goes on, I see the
importance because when Hazel Dukes passed away, it was really

(04:11):
difficult for me to find quality pictures of us. There
was a million pictures of me next to her, sitting
talking to her, you know, just in the same space,
even us grinning, smiling. There was a million, but they
were grainy because cameras weren't that good many years ago.
Some of them was dirty because we never cleaned the
camera when we used to take pictures. There was all

(04:31):
kinds of things that just didn't make it a good picture.
And so I could have posted a gazillion things, but
I didn't have it. And it's not just so much
about posting, but it's also for your own keepsake that
you could go back and remember the stories and the
situations that you was in and all of that, so
you know. But I did find this one picture when

(04:53):
Hazel passed, of Cora Berry and Hazel Dukes in a
suv coming to New York to cuss people out on
my behalf, and the picture is so hilarious and suit
up in the car like what, what's good?

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Who?

Speaker 1 (05:07):
And where where we're at?

Speaker 3 (05:10):
And I'll never forget that picture.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
You would never made that moment.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
When I see that picture, it just brings back the
whole moment.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Oh my god. So so many things have happened, but
long live revend Jesse L. Jackson. Reverend Jackson's his his
contribution to our society is one that will you know.
Now he gets to get his proper flowers, because now
the historians get to tell the story that is beyond

(05:37):
whether they liked his personality. You have to measure what
he did, and that is going to be I guess
the gift for his family is that because in his
life he to you know, it was a lot of hate,
and I'm sure some of it was something he did right,
because that's life. We all have moments where we make

(05:57):
bad decisions sometimes miss and I like to say decisions
because sometimes we know what we're doing ain't right, Like
that's just it. You know, you make a decision today
to be like, you know what, I'm gonna cut this
person off, and then everybody's mad at you. And guess
what that you earned it, as they would say. But overall,
when you look at his story, his family will finally

(06:21):
get an opportunity for it to be told that it
would be measurable to the sacrifice that they know that
he made. And so I am forever grateful to Reverend Jackson.
I'm grateful for him looking at me and believing that
I was somebody who was worth his conversation, his time,
And as I wrote on my post, I just thank

(06:41):
God that I was able to touch an icon because
that is who he truly, truly is fact. Absolutely, So
let's talk about these two issues real quick, because we
want to bring up the Reverend Mark Thompson, who's gonna
come on. He is one of Reverend Jackson's mentee and
also our dear brother. And I was, you know, thinking
who could bring the spirit to the show so that

(07:03):
we could, you know, really talk about Reverend Jackson's life.
And so he's going to be coming on to talk
to us. And then we have a great guest that
will be following Reverend Thompson, Mark as we call him.
So the two things I want to talk about is
number one. And I'm not gonna say much about this,
but the Epstein Files really got me messed up. No,

(07:29):
it's really, it's really serious. I didn't write this on
social media because I was like, I'm gonna talk about
it on the show the first day that I decided
to go down the Epstein rabbit hole, because before that,
I was like, white people doing white people shit. I
ain't got time for that. And remember when I was
up here, you and I were talking out it one day,
and I was making the case that it's not just

(07:50):
white Epstein, Okay, because the obsession with kids yeah, it's
in every community. It's in every community, and people do
sick sick shit. The difference is we would never be
able to get away with it in the same fashion
that these white people have done. And so I didn't

(08:12):
do but so much research. But one night, because this
damn perrimenopause be on my back at two and three
and o'clock in the morning when I cannot sleep. So
I woke up one night three in the morning, two
in the morning, and in fact it was before that.
I woke up about one o'clock and I started going
down the rabbit hole. So for an hour I was

(08:34):
on on line googling, I was watching videos. Then I
made it to YouTube, and I was being careful not
to be on like pages where they taking you down
like bullshit rabbit holes. I was really reading witness statements.
I was reading journals of young girls who were basically breeders, Forslain,

(08:58):
Maxwell and and old Boy and Epstein. I was on
in like CBS and CNN and reports from all of
these places and kind of piecing together what was fact
from fiction as far as I could see. By the
time too about two ten hit. I remember saying to myself, girl,

(09:24):
you gotta go to sleep. This shit is sick. You
have to go to sleep. You need to stop. And
I dozed off in like a couple of seconds. I
woke up again at two thirty. So that was a
twenty minute span from when I know that I was
dozing off to when I woke up. And the whole
twenty minutes that I was sleep, I was being stabbed.

(09:46):
Like I was telling somebody in the dream, Hey, they're
killing people, they eating babies, they breeding girls, they're doing this.
It's kidnapping. I'm explaining this to a person, and as
I'm talking out of my mouth to them, they looked
at me like oh yeah, and started stabbing me. And
I was being stabbed for a long time. I remember,

(10:08):
I felt like I was floating and I just kept
being stabbed, stab stab It's like they were stabbing me
in my stomach. This is happening to me in my dream.
So the next day, well, you know, I woke up
and I went back in the rabbit hole like a nutcase.
But the next day I told all of y'all, anybody
who would listening, I was like, yo, I was being
stabbed in my dream. The Epstein files are crazy. Then

(10:31):
I said, you cannot. You have to put this down.
It's too heavy, it's too much, and you gotta put
it down. Then I saw a video from Eric Bennet,
the artist, the great artist, and he said that he
went down the rabbit hole. He was all messed up
in the head, and that he had been hearing screams
for the whole day since reading things in these files.

(10:55):
Then I saw a guy on social media who is
a victim of sexual assaults, and he was explaining how
it had impacted him and messed him up. He was
a journalist who was supposed to have a report done
on what he had read in the Epstein files thus far,
and he said he could not get the files done.
He was crying. He was snot crying, okay. Then I

(11:20):
said I wasn't going back, but that perimenopause tapped me
on my shoulder, woke me up another night, and I
went back into the rabbit hole. And then after that
there was fires everywhere. Everything was burning when I went
back to sleep. I'm not saying this to sensationalize anything.
I'm telling you that this was my real experience that
every time I picked it up and really did my

(11:42):
reading and my research that shit entered my spirit. It
is dark. Its dark as hell when I say dark.
And the sad part is that it reminds me of something,
And I think that's why it disturbs me so much.
It reminds me of stories that I have read about
what was done to us while we were enslaved, right

(12:06):
like while we were living, while living, while we were
staying in Africa for all of that time, and we
traveled from the slave dungeons and went to different parts
where enslavement was happening in different places all around the continent.
It's not just Ghana. We learned stories of things that
happened to people in Kenya. We learned stories in Egypt. Yes,

(12:27):
we learned what we created, but we also learned of horrific,
horrific things that happened to people all over the continent.
And when I listened to the rape, the torture, the
things that we heard when we were in the dungeons
in Ghana and they told us about the rape that
went on and how on top of the women's whatever

(12:51):
that's called the cave or whatever it's called the dungeon
and whatever, and then it was a whole that led
in to the quote unquote master's house. Remember all of
these years later, many years later, since this happened to us,
you can still smell the stench of menstreal cycle and

(13:17):
just just everything feces everything. You could smell it in
that in the dungeons. And I knew it was a
menstrual cycle smell because as soon as we walked in there,
you and I think Angelo ran out, and the women
we were still able to stay. And that's because we
know the smell. We know the smell, like that's how

(13:38):
deep this shit was. And on top, remember they had
a staircase where he could look down and pick any
one of the slaves to the of the enslaved individuals
down to children, and they would have to go up
into his quarters and he would have sex with them,
torture them, abuse them, allow other people to come and

(13:59):
sleep with them. So this is reminiscent what was going
on with Epstein. They had Epstein had tracks underneath the
house that led into the ocean. What you think they
were doing with that, throwing bodies down into the ocean.
I mean, this situation is so dark, and I'm with
Eric Bennet. I know people saying they don't want the

(14:21):
experience that I had. They got too much other shit
going on to be getting bogged down in something else
dark that you got to pick up and deal with
and take on in your spirit. But it's just too
calm out here for me. It's too calm out here
for me. And I don't seen white people tass shit
up when they didn't. A friend of ours, our sister Carris,

(14:43):
she said this to me the other day. I don't
seen them tash shit up. They don't win the super Bowl.
They if they team don't win, they tash shit up. Okay,
I don't seen them have bar fights. I have seen
what they can can do. Meanwhile, people just walking around

(15:03):
like this shit is normal, and I am traumatized. I
don't know why what you men, You don't know why it's.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
It's not what I mean. Let me let me refrain
reframes that I know why you're traumatized. I just don't
know why. You don't understand why. You know they will
fight about the super Bowl and have bar fights and
all of that, and don't care about this because there's
a normalcy inside of a society that we don't live in, right,

(15:37):
And it's been for years, there's this dark underworld of
these people who they call the elites, who have this
is their reality, and they control the narrative of the media.
They control how it's perceived, they control what you hear,
they control all those things. So you're not seeing no outrage,
not because there is no outrage, but they have made
sure that the outrage doesn't rides to where there's a uprising.

(16:01):
They're gonna make sure of that. So you're going to see,
you know, here and there, people say things that come
into your algorithms, so they to you know that you
feel like you're supported in it, but they're not going
to let it rise to a level of public discourse
to where people are really doing what it actually needs
to be done.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
No. Yeah, And I'll say I am following more white
people right now than I ever have, and it is
because there are some of them who are really drum
mages on this and they're not letting it go and
they have big platforms and people are saying things, you know,
and I do see that, but the masses right if
y'all can tear it up about your favorite team, y'all

(16:41):
ought to be really going off and have the president
of the United States continuously gaslight people and say I've
been cleared, cleared by who cleared by paying bondy in them, Like,
are you freaking kidding me? I mean, it's just it's
a disgrace. It is ridiculous, and I am sick to
my stomach about what I have found. So I just

(17:01):
thought that we could start in setting the tone that
I'm pissed about the Epstein files, and it also reminds
me of what happened to us, and God only knows.
The stories haven't even been told. At least we got
some files on Old Boy to see what he was doing.
But imagine the files of the many, many, many, many

(17:24):
black bodies that were exploited as they traveled through the
Middle Passage. It's unbelievable. And the stuff is still happening
here today. Let me talk about my thought of the
day real quick. Next week we got to talk about Target.
There's been some updates. We've been meeting with the senior

(17:47):
level leaders there at Target, and there's been some big
developments in terms of where we stand. It would be
three hundred and eighty one days today actually as this
show is released, or any days, three hundred and eighty
one days from the beginning of the boycott, which coincides
with the three hundred and eighty one days of the

(18:09):
Montgomery bus boycott, and so we will have some updates
on that. Lastly, from my thought of the day, let's
talk quickly about the Save Act.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
Okay, God, God good listen.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Let's talk really quickly about the Save Act. Because you know,
I have to use the white folk programs sometimes because
they don't believe us when we say so. Now I'm
using Claude, So I have to go use the white
Folk AI because when you use when we try to

(18:53):
tell people I don't know, it seemed like we talk
words they don't understand. So I said, you know what,
let me going here and use white folks stuff. So
now I'm using Claude. Okay, because they don't want you
to use chat tbt AI in general, it's problematic, but
we are not going to be as a society able
to in any way get beyond it because it's already

(19:16):
taken over everything. So if you don't know how to
manipulate it for the things you need, I don't be
doing facial pitches and I don't just be on there
asking it for directions. And stuff like that. Because but
even Google has an AI thing. Now you ask it
a question and it follows up with the AI question. Right,

(19:37):
it's called Gemini. That it follows up with something called Gemini,
so you can ask it more questions. This is the unfortunately,
the way of the world. I didn't want a new
cell phone, to be quite honest with you, I'm fine.
I was fine with the elevens and the tens and
all of that, but they just keep on making you
put boxing you into these damn situations. So I understand
people who feel a way about the AI, but I

(19:58):
don't know where else to go to get the information.
So I could tell it to people who don't seem
to believe the things that we're telling them. So I
had to go to the White Folk program. So now
let me tell you what the white folks said about
the Save Act. Okay, So this is what I did.
I started asking some very specific questions. Because what happened

(20:23):
is that last week I posted something which was a
video from Ayana Pressley and a number of other people,
and Evette Clark also has a statement in it. It
was a post that I reposted from Revolt. It was
on their Instagram, and so they were, you know, they
had a slide that multiple people were on there talking

(20:47):
about the problem with the Save Act, and Ayana Pressley
mentioned that all of this is a problem. That's not
a problem that they're trying to start. The Republicans have
created us, so first of all. And so then in
the comment section, to get to my point, there are
people who are saying, oh my god, how did y'all

(21:10):
act like black people don't have passports? How did y'all
act like, you know, like we don't have the appropriate paperwork?
What the hell are you talking about? Like y'all ought
to be ashamed of yourselves for acting like we don't
have the things that we need to provide, the proper
proof of citizenship, to register the vote, to change your registration,

(21:33):
to do any of those things. You have to prove
your citizenship. And they are not allowing you to use
the new real ID because I guess the first ID
was fake. So now the new real idea you're supposed
to have, and that is not even a piece of
form of ID that is acceptable to these people. They
now want you to have a passport and or a

(21:57):
birth certificate. And the person in the comment section said
we got that. What you mean, yeah, we got passports
and we have birth certificates. First of all, let's just
be clear. See I know these things because a lot
of times people see life as you said. Erica Ford
told you this many years ago, and it sticks with us.

(22:18):
We see life through our narrow lens. Even if it
is a privileged lens, even if it's a privilege, and
even if I'm living in a house that I paid
for with millions of dollars and my bank account is packed,
I still see life through that small lens. It's still
unless you understand the experiences of people who have not

(22:39):
you do not know what you're talking about. Having a
passport is a privilege. It is a luxury. I know
people who live in Brooklyn who have never traveled from
Brooklyn to Manhattan. They have never been. They have no
reason to have a passport. It is not something that
they want to do spending their money to get a passport.

(23:02):
They might have their birth certificate, but now, guess what
if you go into the category around women who are married,
most women who got who are married, they never changed
their name on their birth certificate, so their other identification
might have their married name, but their maiden name is
on their birth certificate. Another category elderly people. Some of

(23:26):
them people born it before I think nineteen sixty. They
was born in the house. They don't even have a
birth certificate in the first place. My grandmother, I could
promise you everything that I know in the world. My
grandmother was a hard working woman, an honorable woman. But
she could not read.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
She could not guess the fact.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Okay, my other grandmother, my father's side, she may have
been able to read, but she also came up at
a time when I know for a fact her paperwork
wasn't everything matching. This is being done intentionally to suppress
voters as we are moving towards the midterm elections. They
are creating a problem that doesn't exist because there is

(24:11):
no widespread voter fraud at all.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Anywhere, because there's a million investigations that's proved that there's
not widespread voter.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
They get They sued in Pennsylvania forty three times. They
sued the Trump volks sued Pennsylvania forty three times, and
the people in Pennsylvania won the election. I mean the
lawsuit forty three times. There is no widespread voter fraud.

(24:40):
So your people who want to come on my page
and say y'all ought to be ashamed of yourselves that
you're arguing against something that doesn't matter. People should have ID.
We're not talking about ID because some states they do
make you show ID tail.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Time.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, sometimes they do. I haven't been asked all the
time time, but there have been times when I had it.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
But then you have to match your signature, right.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Your signature, so all of those count, and your and
and voting is a right, that is a right that
you are afforded as part of the governing laws of
our society. Okay, it is not. You don't have to
have a passport. You do not have to have a passport.
So I went to the white folk stuff because again
I said, let me get my data, because you know

(25:26):
they gonna say they got no data.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
That proved that what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
You know, you know, I asked a question, is there
a racial breakdown of the percentage percentage of Americans who
have passports? And let me tell you what it said,
Hispanics slash lent. You know people fifty five percent of

(25:53):
them have passports, fifty five percent White Americans, only four
forty two percent half passports. Black Americans only thirty four
percent of US half passports. Okay, now let's be clear
about something here. Y'all said that the Spanish speaking immigrants

(26:17):
are the problem, and more of them have passports than
white people and black people. So, actually, if your thing
is because y'all not saying that the black people, people
who look black right, who present as black, are going
into the voting polls and voting fraudulently, you also are

(26:41):
not saying that white people are the problem at all.
Y'all ain't got no problem with white immigrants. Ain't nobody
bothering white immigrants. The people that you have honed in
on are Spanish speaking people who are undocumented or documented,
who you later on find out you wrong for detained
in the first place. They got fifty five percent passport.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, it is defeating a purpose and is defeating the
purpose of the people you believe are here illegal or
voting illegally, and they already have passports.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
So that's not really a thing, So they're not they citizens.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
So and what you're doing is disenfranchising black people who
were born here because most of them don't have a
reason to travel outside of the earth. And we living
below the poverty line, so we're not traveling outside of
our communities every day.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
So some of us, especially if you live in the projects.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
If you live in the projects, the project household is generational, right,
and most of them don't go outside of the.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Prey go to the beach in Long Island. Maybe some
aunt or somebody comes by. It takes you somewhere nice,
and you might go there. And yes, this is true.
This is not us being classes because we know them.
I know people I know family members and friends who
have never left their borrow. They've never left their community.
I have family members who live down South that have

(28:03):
never gotten on a plane in their lives. In their lives.
In fact, I know people who could fly if they
wanted to, but they just don't. They don't take planes.
That's just not something they do. Jimani Williams, our public advocate,
is one of those individuals. He's done it to leave
the country once or twice, maybe twice, right, maybe when

(28:24):
he was a kid, he doesn't know. But in terms
of how he lives every single day, he does not
use a passport regularly. Because the man don't get on
planes and he does not fly that often. So imagine
if you're somebody who also does not have the means,
and I'm telling you that thirty four percent of black
people do not have a passport. Now you could sit

(28:45):
here and we could all with our privileged assets, say well,
you need to get one. Who's gonna pay? Are you
the person in my comments who's saying that people need
to get their passports? Are you going to pay for
the sixty six percent? Is a yeah, it would be
sixty six percent of the people who don't have passports?
Are you gonna go get it for them? Since you're

(29:06):
so you got so much to say, what are you
going to do to lift what is what is called
a poll tax? Because that is exactly what this is
that you are now making people with their human right
to vote, You are putting a poll tax in front
of them where they are going to have to pay
money in order to access the ballot box, which means

(29:27):
that they are being suppressed.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
So you got people who don't or get it grand
in the system, they tied to the system already, and
then they saying, you know what, I'm gonna go vote,
but it's like now I gotta pay the vote and
you tell me I got to go get some extra
shit that I don't I'm probably gonna never use again.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
And the only reason I'm getting is to.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Vote and I can pay my money.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
I'm just gonna stay home.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
I got it, and that's what they want.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
And that's exactly the point. So for anybody who is
thinking to themselves, well I have all of my stuff
or I know I could get it, and I unders standing,
you do kind of have to prove. You need to
understand what's happening and why these people there is an
intention when there is not a problem and you're trying
to fix it. I was trying to tell somebody the

(30:12):
other day that's like you got a tenant in your house,
and you go to the tenant and say, your water
is working fine, all the pipes and everything in this
house is fine, but we're tearing all of these pipes out. Anyway.
We know you don't have any issues, but we're just
gonna renovate. We're gonna tear everything up and we're gonna rebuild.

(30:33):
Guess what, First of all, that's a privilege. That's a
privilege that you now have the resources to be able
to renovate. But second of all, how dare you say
to the tenant and I'm gonna raise your rent and
you still you can you still gotta leave here, okay,
because we get ready to renovate the pipes in your place.

(30:53):
Ain't gonna be no hot water, ain't gonna be no
clean running water. And I need you to pay a
little bit for this inconvenience until we get it done,
a privilege that I am now responsible for. So it's
some bullshit and don't and we don't have time to
get into the issue of the birth certificates because I
went to look at it and it said the birth

(31:15):
certificates with the women who, like I said, they're maiden
names and their names on their ID not matching. But
you know who is said that will be disenfranchised the most,
and this is what they want. It's that elderly people
of all races, elderly people and of course black people,
who are so just. I don't want to call us stupid,

(31:37):
because that's not cool, but some of us are so gullible,
some of us are so up trumps, but that we
don't even understand the history of how our people, our
eldest couldn't even get paperwork because there was no hospital
that would deliver a black child in our society. They
wouldn't even give us the proper paperwork. You got people

(32:01):
who don't even have their first name on their birth certificate,
or they don't have their last name on their birth certificate.
That stuff was never corrected. That's reparations. If America wants
people to get the proper identification to be able, then
you need to You need to suspend all the fees,

(32:22):
open up all the agencies to look back at the
ancestral records of my grandmother and my great grandmother. So
if you want to implement a policy like that, I'm
all for it. Let's do it. Let's get every person
who is eligible for a passport and should have the
correct birth certificate. Let's get that done. But then, you

(32:44):
know what, that's a pilot program that turns into a
permanent program where you have to have agencies working with people.
You don't wait until you have fucked up America. You
have pissed people off. You shooting white folks in the
face on the streets while you're deporting people who some
of them, and what you said it was going to
be about criminals. And now we know you haven't even

(33:08):
done half. There's not even a fifty percent success rate
in detaining these hardened criminals who who are supposed to
be illegals in our country using their terminology. You've done
all of this, You've pissed people off. Folks don't want
y'all anymore. And we know that because every single election

(33:29):
that has happened between when Donald Trump took office and
right now, the Democrats have been wiping the floor with
them winning all types of things. And don't think mom,
Donnie is not also a part of that, okay. And
so now you realize your assets is about to be
put out of power to a certain extent in the

(33:49):
next election cycle, which is the midterm elections. And you
now want to impose on people a poll tax through
making them have proof of citizenship in order to register,
in order to change their registration, and to create all
kinds of chaos about a problem that doesn't even exist.
And your stupid ass is in my comments talking about

(34:11):
what you mean, we got id don't make what you're
talking about. It's insulting. Oh, it's so insulting that sixty
six percent of black people don't have a passport. Why
don't you take your ass down there to the passport office,
put on your social media, meet me here. I'm gonna
help you get it, you know what, get their documents together,
send all that stuff in for them to go nowhere.

(34:32):
And some of them who never traveled anywhere, should they
have a passport? Absolutely that as part of reparations in
this country. That I'm just saying every person should have
a passport because I'll tell you one reason, which is
not necessarily what you expect me to say, but we
might have to get the hell up out of here.
Every person should, every person who can should have a passport.

(34:55):
I believe in that one hundred percent. And I also
believe in the reparations of an tree that would pay
for it.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
People scared to get a passport, They scared to go
outside the country because.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Scared you won't get back. I mean, this is just ridiculous.
That's what I have to say. My thought of the
day is that the Save America Act is designed to
disenfranchise people who are unlikely supporters of this administration. And
white folks, you better listen up, because only forty two

(35:26):
percent of you have passports. So not only are they
attempting to disenfranchise us as black people? They also coming
down your street. So if you sit there and want
to be Trump's, a Trumpster and a maga, just know
that you're about to be disenfranchised too. And elections have implications.
Elections have consequences. And guess what, it's not just about

(35:49):
who's running for president. Knock on the door just so
you know. It's your city council person, it's your state
represented is, It's everybody who's on the ballot in you,
your community, your congressional leaders, it's all of that. So
let's not be so racist till we stupid.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
That's what we are.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
All right, let's get into it. I guess y'all and
got me upset. But Reverend Mark Thompson is coming up
and immediately following Reverend Mark Thompson to remember Reverend Jesse L.
Jackson will be.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
A fear at to mens.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yes this week, While the death of Reverend Jesse L.
Jackson Senior is it was expected, but it's still very very,
very very painful. It's a sore spot for a lot
of people. And you know, I strive in my life

(36:47):
that one day when I go people who never met
me can say they felt an impact. But in this situation,
it's not. Of course, it's the people who don't know him.
And that means that the people who do know him,
people who got to spend time with him, people who
worked alongside him, people who just happened to meet him

(37:12):
once or twice, that the impact on us is really
really great and it means so many things. It's like
it signifies the end of a particular era. He's one
of the only people. It's not many people who lived
during the time that Doctor King lived but was fighting
as hard as Doctor King, who could tell stories that

(37:36):
were firsthand, you know, and you know his contributions are
just so significant. I saw the Essence magazine put out
a piece today on what Reverend Jackson taught us about boycotts,
about economic justice, and you know, just those types of
things we will see unfold for many days. And so

(38:00):
I thought to myself, way, wow, you know, I have
so many stories. I have so many stories of different encounters,
times that I served him, you know, days that I
spent all day in the car with him. And of
course Reverend Sharpton, who you know, my heart goes out too,
because I know that Reverend Sharpton in many ways walked

(38:20):
in Reverend Jackson's footsteps. You know, I watched them be
everything big brother, you know, a father figure. I watched
so much happen. So it's a lot of emotions that's
in that Tuesday morning. One of the people who contacted me,
very very very early in the morning, late in the
night to inform me of Reverend Jackson's passing was my

(38:43):
friend who is also another deep connection that I have
is our friend but to Reverend Jackson, and that is
Reverend Mark Thompson. And I thought that it would be
just special for us on the show to have Mark
to come and talk about some of his experiences. I mean,
you have your own at this point, all these years

(39:05):
you've met Reverend Jackson, I could just I'm just thinking
about a time recently. Well it was in August during
the Democratic National Convention where we've spent time with him,
and he was joking around but he couldn't really talk,
but he still was, you know, joking around with you.
And you know he just after a while he knew like, Okay,
I know this guy, see him often. You know, so

(39:28):
so many experiences, so many moments that I can remember,
but I do know that he loved him some, Mark Thompson.
He loved Mark Thompson and Mark love love, love love
Reverend Jackson as well. So today we are joined during
our show by Reverend Mark Thompson, who's been on the
show many times. He's our mentor, he's our big brother

(39:51):
and our friend. And today I'm sure Mark, you are
in your own sense of mourning about losing someone that
even though you were there at his bedside, you knew
he was going, the day was coming. But still the
impact of the moment it is, you know, something that
can't be expressed or really contained in words that the

(40:11):
English language provides us because it's such a huge loss.
So thank you first of all for joining us today,
and then also just thank you for being a constant
in Reverend Jackson's life, because I know you were there
as his real, real friend and supporter and his real
brother all the way until the last days.

Speaker 5 (40:30):
Well, thank you both, Tamika and Mice. It's always good
to be with you and grateful for the work that
you all continue to do.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
You all really are.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
And the inspiration to me more than you know it gets.
It can get lonely out here, on the front line.
So whenever your friends are standing up for what's right,
it's helpful. And it's a bit more lonely for me
this week because of Reverend Jackson. And you're right, I've

(41:02):
you know, I would talk to you, I'd been to Chicago,
I'd spend time with him even recently, and you think
you're prepared, but you never really are. And when I
got the call early this morning, I was like, okay, okay,
I wasn't prepared.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
I weren't expecting it this morning, but I knew the
day was coming.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
But it's really all the calls since then, because you know,
you do so much in a life with someone you
don't necessarily remember every detail, but others do. And people call, say, Mark,

(41:45):
we remember when you and him did this, and you
and him did that. And I just before joined you
got a text from Mayor Brandon Johnson in Chicago, and
we were together last time I was.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
We spent and out again.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
I had to spend time with Revend Jackson, and you know,
he just sent me some praying hands because he's someone
else that Reverend Jackson mentored and really started him on
his path. We kind of did that together, so it

(42:20):
has been. It has been quite an experience. And y'all
find this funny. Max's wife used to say, Mark, all
of your friends are old, did Gregory and Jesse Jackson

(42:40):
and people like that, and Walter foun Roy and with
all those old friends, when they all precede you in passing,
you're not gonna have no friends. And she wasn't really
saying that in a complimentary since of course she didn't
know I have y'all his friends.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
But I must admit those brothers made a difference in
my life. And you know, did Gregory and Reveren Jackson.
I shared something in common.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
There was a level of estrangement from our biological fathers.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
And we bonded around that.

Speaker 5 (43:17):
You know, a man who go through that ten to
do that, and so I think that's what made us
close as well. And lastly, I'll just say I remind
you know all the young people, listen to your elders,
tay he sit at their feet, but most importantly, listen

(43:41):
to those and appreciate those. Don't take for granted those
who believe in you.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
A lot of people in life.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
Aren't going to believe in you, even some of our
own family members don't. But Reverend Jackson believed in a
lot of us and that was meaningful at time.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
And he believed in me. And I'm grateful.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
I'm thankful, beautiful, you know as I sit here and
think to me, because was just saying that. You know,
we had many moments with the Reverend Jackson, and you know,
I was always enamored by his ability to articulate and
just reach people. You know, I remember the first time

(44:24):
I seen him on TV and I was a young
boy and he was running for president. I had never
just seen a black man have that statuetque that way
and speak in that manner and captivate so many different people,
you know, and later on actually meeting him and seeing him,
you know, it was like a superhero right right. And
then you know, my most fondest memory is when we

(44:48):
were in Minnesota and Derek Sharvin was convicted for killing
George Floyd and we were all in the room and
waiting to hear the verdict.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
It was me to Mek, it was.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Ben Crumb, it was shocked in and it was also
Jesse and jam It was just all of us, and
when the verdict was given, he started crying.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
You know. Ver Jackson started crying.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
I remember, and I remember hugging him and were really
just all hugged and just seeing him cry. And it
was like, while we actually are seeing the fruits of
the fight that he had put in for so many years,
you know, and he was and he was, you know,
you could tell that he was and he was airling
at that moment, but it didn't stop him from celebrating

(45:46):
the moment of actually seeing victory and understanding. I just
understood that he had contributed so much to that, you know,
and that was probably I think that was the most
touching moment. And then after that we was at the DNC.
He was just so playful with us, right, you know,
he wasn't really talking that much, but you could just
see the joy in his face as he looked with us.

(46:07):
He's seen people familiar that you know, were actually in
the work and him and Tamika had their own little
special thing. But when he's seen me, like she said,
he noticed me and was like, yeah, I always see
you around now and I'm really comfortable with you now
and I see the work that you're doing. So that
level acknowledgment was good for me as a as a person.
Mentored by Reverend Jackson, What was that like for you?

(46:30):
At what age was you first being mentored by it?

Speaker 5 (46:36):
I'll say around sixteen or seventeen. We first met in
the flesh.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
You about ninety years old. You mean to tell me, no,
I'm just messive with you.

Speaker 4 (46:46):
I know it seems like it.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Well, in our years and our years we got like
we like dog years out here for real.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
It seems like it. But I was about sixteen years old.
It was nineteen eighty three. Of course, I first saw
him on Sesame Street, and then I met him at
the moment he was running for president or announcing the run.
It was run, Jesse run in eighty three, and it

(47:14):
was electrifying. This generation had this Obama moment before that,
we had that just Jackson moment.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
And I remember him saying.

Speaker 5 (47:26):
That that campaign was not just about him winning, but
it was also about our self respect. And having heard
I am somebody, I didn't even realize there were folks
who thought I was a nobody at a young age
hearing that, so there's a reason he's saying that. And
then when he ran, he said, We've got to win
our self respect, and I knew there was a reason

(47:49):
for that.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Too. I had already been.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Raised in a civil rights church after the Civil Rights movement.
James Lawson was there before I came along.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
And my mother.

Speaker 5 (48:04):
Used to weep two times a year, on April fourth,
the day of Doctor King's assassination, and on Good Friday,
whenever Good Friday fell, and sometimes the two overlapped, and
I had a profound impact. My mother was very empathic.
Why do you cry all the time when that happened?

(48:27):
And she would tell me what that experience was like.
And so Reverend Jackson, more than any of Doctor King's disciples,
was the most visible, and, as you alluded to Mice,
the most prolific in recounting his story, the gospel of
Doctor King. Now, mind you, some of his disciples didn't

(48:48):
like that.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
That's a whole other thing. But he was the most
outspoken in reciting that gospel. So he literally was interpreting
the story of a man whose death made my mother cry.
And I watched her do that, and so I was
very curious about him and wanted to know more and
wanted to understand more. And then, of course, you know

(49:12):
when he when he heard my story, he was even
he was even more interested, and he was always looking
for people to to mentor.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
I mean, he was a social butterfly, you know, and
he loved all the young people he came in contact with.
That's that's why I loved you too, to make and
you my side. I mean y'all doing things. Yeah, rem
Jackson wanted to be in it. He wanted to be
in everything, right, So he was gonna leave. He wasn't
gonna leave any stone unturned. And so the campaign sixteen

(49:48):
seventeen years old and involved in the campaign at a
very young age. And then of course the South African Embassy.
You know, I'm out here going to jail with him.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
And s wonder and so I was just really.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
Consumed and in this incubator of activism, and that's that's
all I knew, mhm.

Speaker 4 (50:16):
And every step of the way, he would he would
share jewels with me, and he would give words of advice.
He always wanted to hire me, and I'll say, okay,
but for whatever reason never materialized.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
We maintained a personal relationship, and I'm kind of glad
it didn't become an employer employeeship because it would have
been different.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
The same thing about Reverend Sharpton. You know, I've never
been an employee.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
We've never been co workers U and I think for
a lot of reasons that makes a difference. Reverend Jackson
put Al Sharpton and me on at different times a
few years apart. But you wouldn't know Al Sharpton if
it weren't for the Reverend Jester Jackson. And you wouldn't
know Mark Thompson if it weren't for the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

(51:10):
He saw the importance of mentoring and then man, I
took my children around him, and he would always leave
an impact. He wanted that because he understood the struggle
we're in and he wanted to pass it forward. He

(51:31):
always did, And so I'm even thankful that my children
got to sit at his feet and be inspired by
him and touched to him and his garment. My condolences
to his children and his grandchildren, because you lose something
when your parent and your grandparents shares all that.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
Time and everybody else.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
And he did that with me and with so many
others that I'm just I'm thankful that he did.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
I do feel a little lonelier today this week.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
I feel I didn't think I would feel this way,
but to me get my side.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
I think at this moment, if we never thought about
it before, we are the adults in the room now.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
Oh yeah, and we have to be that way, act
that way, and men the divisions between all the other adults,
because this is no time for pettiness or self aggrandizement.
A lot of people want to do celebrity activism. Now

(52:41):
that won't save us. We need to learn from the
mistakes of our elders and our ancestors and come together.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
It's heavy, you know, as you were talking, I was
just thinking about the rooms that I sat in. I
was a little girl, so you know, I didn't know much.
All I could do was listen. And I tell you,
when young people are around, folks don't think you know

(53:13):
what's happening, right, They think that it's all over your head.
But actually young people know a lot. I was, let
me see what. It's a series that all we got into,
can't I can't remember anyway. I was watching the show
and there was a man who was in a wheelchair

(53:34):
and he was robbing people in various ways, and he said,
when you're down. They said, how did you get away
with all of this? And he said, when you're down,
here nobody pays attention, the Lincoln lawyers, and nobody sees
you when you're down here. And I feel like, as
a kid, you know, in many ways people overlook me. Now,

(53:56):
I don't mean that they didn't believe in me, because
to your point about how we know Reverend Sharpton, you
know me, you know not you, but the world knows
me because Reverend Sharpton believed in me and put me
on and Reverend richardson, so you know, I have to
say that. But still, as a kid, you know, people

(54:16):
don't think you're paying attention. And I paid attention to everything,
so I understood the nuances of the good days and
the bad days and the conflicts and all of that stuff.
And it's just those memories are things. Some of it
you'll share, some of it we will share, some of
it will never talk about. There'll be, you know, the
things that we will keep close to the chest. But

(54:39):
there's so many memories. I was thinking Mark that Reverend
Jackson obviously believed strongly that our economic justice was it
was the civil rights issue, right, And I wish you
could contextualize that for us today to just talk about

(54:59):
what what is it like, you know, working with him,
knowing that he cared so much about what corporations and
this is a man. Let me put a pin in
that and say, because there are some folks, you know,
today and tomorrow and the rest of this week, people
are going to celebrate him, but it won't be long
before there will be those who want to try to analyze,

(55:21):
you know, his contribution. And one thing we know for
sure is that from where we started, or at least
that's not safe from where we started, but where from
where Reverend Jackson picks up the baton to where we
are now, we can measure his impact. We can measure it.

(55:43):
We know what change. Or you talk about diversity, equity,
and inclusion, you can't talk about that without you talking
about Reverend Jackson and his economic justice fight for us
because he forced corporations to the table to deal with
black people. He forced more black and other board members

(56:09):
to Fortune five hundred companies. I know I was there again,
I was little, I was young, but I remember them
holding Coca Cola and other companies accountable for not having
the board members or not having you know, the proper
supply of diversity. I mean all of that. I remember
him talking about that and a lot of what has

(56:32):
been rolled back in this moment, it's things that Reverend
Jackson fought for. So why don't you talk a little
bit about your experiences and just knowing that that was
the work that he was so heavily focused on.

Speaker 5 (56:45):
Well, one thing I unfortunately have been hearing on the
news this week.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
You know, people.

Speaker 5 (56:53):
The corporate and legacy media can help but be negative
at some points, and so for every good thing they say,
they come up with something else.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
Well, you know, he and doctor King didn't really get
along in the end. Well, you know, maybe not. I
would challenge that they were both young men.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
But on April third, doctor King called Jesse Jackson's name
and he was doing a call and response with Jesse
Jackson around the economic boycount of one of the companies
they were talking to.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
I think it was either Seal Chester anp Atlantic. So
Doctor King.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
Would not have done that if he did not believe
in the work that Reverend Jackson was doing in that regard.
And so of course after Doctor King's martyrdom, after his crucifixion,
Reverend Jackson continued with that work and it made quite
a difference. We're doing something thing with the target boycott

(58:01):
and that's a good sign and we should continue that.
But we got to step it up because at that
time they were knocking a whole lot of folks off,
a whole lot of corporations who wouldn't hire us, who
wouldn't treat us.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
Right, and the corporations would theo. Revd. Jackson, Oh, here
he comes.

Speaker 5 (58:25):
He's gonna try to get some of us when he
was trying to get something for all of us. And
you know, sometimes we don't want to do those things
anymore because we want to go along and get along.
Everybody wants to be loved. Everybody wants to be popular.
No one really wants to carry the cross.

Speaker 4 (58:40):
But he carried it even when he knew it would
be used to villainize him, because.

Speaker 5 (58:48):
He saw the bigger picture. And you're right to Miko,
we have the receipts from that.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
No pun intended. You know. I think in our struggle
we all have to figure out.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Ways to do work that is scientifically miserable.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
And his was from the economic movement to voting rights.
No human being has ever registered more voters than the
Reverend Jesse Jackson. And the Democratic Party.

Speaker 5 (59:24):
Now taken over by a consultant class doesn't believe in
those strategies anymore, but those are the strategies that ultimately
will win. I was at a book siding with Howard
Bryant the other week. He's got the new book Kings
and Pause pawns about the conflict that existed between Jackie

(59:45):
Robinson and Paul Roberson. And even he was saying, you know,
by the time, by the end of Jackie Robinson's life,
everybody was sick of him. He was everywhere, he was
doing everything, and even some of our own people. You know,
we get to a point where Mice and Tamika and Mark,
they're too visible. We always see them doing stuff. We
don't want to hear nothing from them no more. But
who you gonna hear from? What are you going to do?

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
And we're actually not here.

Speaker 5 (01:00:10):
We all want to be loved, but we aren't just
here to make everybody comfortable. We're here to disturb those
who are too comfortable. And so, you know, I think
that we have a lot to learn from the Reverend
Jesse Jackson.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Some of us want to reinvent wheels. We don't need to.

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
The blueprint is there, The gospel has been written. We
had the Gospel of Christ and doctor King, and we
have the gospel of one of his apostles, whether you
want to call him a Paul or Peter in Reverend
Jesse Jackson as well as others. And we, as I said,
we're celebrating the release of Reverend James Lawson's book. Folks,
we need to read to understand. We're not going to

(01:00:57):
make it if we don't. And Reverend Jackson used to
always say his morning time when morning comes, and he
was talking about how there may be sorrow, but joy
coming in the morning. He saw his morning this week.

(01:01:18):
And if we want to see ours and wake up
one morning and see him again, we better find a
way to finish the work that he carried on from
Doctor Kate.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
I said it all the time. You know, we we've
mental Meka. We have a saying that there is no
such thing as a perfect leader. Right when you when
you look at the legacy of you know, Reverend Jackson
and what he accomplished, you know, in the amount of
years that he gave to fighting for black people, to
speaking on behalf of black people, the shots that he's

(01:01:53):
taken from his own people, you know, and it's it's
disheartening sometimes disheartening, because you know, when you look at
the legacy and you look at how much he sacrificed
and how much he you know, he took on his back,
and you know, times when it wasn't good and your
own people turn your back, and you constantly still fighting,
and then at eighty one years old, you know this

(01:02:16):
is your legacy. And then you have people who have
never done anything for anybody who will literally critique it
and say what somebody didn't do and what they don't deserve.
It's disheartening because actually being you know, in a position
to where you know you're seen as a leader where
you're fighting for your people and everything that you do
is for the betterment of the people. Know, we might

(01:02:37):
not always get it right, and you might make a mistake.
People critique, you know, and people have criticisms, and some
of them legit. But to attempt to act as if
Jesse Jackson did not fight on behalf of our people
and make so much headway and do so many things
that make us able to do and live in the

(01:02:58):
way that we do today, To act like that didn't happen,
it's just flabbergasted. I don't even understand those conversations, and
I no longer have them. And I say that about
all of our leaders. I don't agree with everything that
none of our leaders have done. And you can point
out and you might have this and that has happened,
but to act like people who've actually fought for us
and been on the front line, and when you look

(01:03:20):
and the history books record what they've done, you know
the level of sacrifice is given.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
This is unreal sacrifice. Let me say, Mark, well, as
we get ready to close. So we talked about the
serious stuff, but there's some funny things also that I remember,
and I just want to I want to join you
first in saying that to Reverend Jackson's family. I won't
go into naming everybody because I know I'll forget one

(01:03:49):
of my brothers and sisters. But to the entire family,
my heart goes out to you. I know that you
all were there to sit near him, and you knew
the day was coming, but like the rest of us,
is still shocking, it's still painful. To my condolences to
all of you who are under the care and leadership
of the Great Jackie Jackson. Okay, be clear of who

(01:04:13):
the queen is of his castle. And I was just
thinking in all of these memories that when I was
a little girl, Santita Jackson, which is Reverend Jackson's oldest child,
Is that correct, His oldest daughter used to give me
singing lessons at her apartment. My mother used to take

(01:04:35):
me on Saturdays after the rally to Santita's house in
New York and she used to give me singing lessons.
Like that's how far my relationship goes back with Reverend
Jackson's family. But a funny, funny, funny story, because you
sent me a picture that reminded me, and then Chairman

(01:04:56):
Roslyn Brock, who is the Chairman emeritus of the NAACP,
she sent me a picture that tied the two things
like a boat. So the picture, so the picture that
Roslyn sent me was of the Women's March. I took
a picture with Reverend Jackson and Roslin at the Women's

(01:05:16):
March and I had that day that picture. At that time,
everything was cool, but later on, you know the program,
there were no male speakers, with the exception of my
son and Jessiri X who did some entertainment.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
No, we actually did a spoken we accompanied Aja, so
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
It was me and Aja, right, so Aja was the
main person who was who gave a spoken word, and
then Jesseiri and my son were there, but there were
no male participants on the program. And so Reverend Jackson
walks up to the stage and I can spot him

(01:05:58):
from a mile away. I already see I know what
he's getting ready to do. And I that day I
told him, my suburban Jackson, you can't speak today because
you know, it's just everybody's gonna want to speak, all
the men. And so he was like, what what you know?
But anyway, he respected it and he did not speak
on the program, but I could tell every time I

(01:06:20):
would see him after that. So now that picture has
taken the day that it happened, and then for all
these years, every time I would see him, he was
still nice to me, but I know that he was
not happy with me for not allowing him to speak
that day with all those people, okay, all those people,
millions of people watching all over the world. And the

(01:06:42):
picture you sent me is sort of the culmination, if
you will. It ties the bowl on it, because that
was when you made me sit down with him to
talk about whatever. And you could see he's looking at
me like, yeah, what was the problem? And I was
explaining myself to him in Selma, Alabama. You took that

(01:07:02):
picture and that was the first time in a few years,
maybe about two years, that he and I had a
really good conversation. After I didn't let him speak on
the program at the Women's March. And I know some
people will say, well, why not, because he's an icon
and all of that, but it was just the rules
were the rules, and you know, he didn't follow nobody's

(01:07:23):
rules too much, Okay. He walked up into places and
told people what they were going to do, why they
were going to do it, and it was always purposeful.
So you know, those are the types of things, the
stories that you don't really get to share, but it's important.
It was so good for me to see those two
pictures today and remember where we started and then where

(01:07:46):
you brought us to because you were like, we're not
going to continue this. This is dead, it's over with.
It happened, and I believe that you explained to him,
like you know, Reverend, it was the women's program, right.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
Well, it's a little part of that. He when you denied.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Him, don't say when you denied and it was right.

Speaker 5 (01:08:07):
There were no men on program. I wasn't on program.
We were there in support. That's and and our quoting
his own daughter, Santita, we had Claudia Coven's memorial service
was about a week ago, ten days ago, and she said,
you know, you know, my father can't speak as Parkins,
but you know if he could, he be here trying
to priest to you.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
Rem Jackson would show up and just take.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
That and follow unjust rules.

Speaker 5 (01:08:34):
Yeah, I mean, that's just what it was. I have
a million stories about that. Just side Ben Hooks was
his nemesis in that regard Ben Hooks from presidenta a CP. Yeah,
he would when he would Jesson would walk in.

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
Uh, don't let him so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
But that's how Topeka was because we was on the
stage and I was the security, and I forgue was saying.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
He was he was to me.

Speaker 5 (01:09:02):
And if Tamika had the that's why Tamika is the leader.
She had the tmerity. Now a whole lot of his peers,
a whole lot of his peers and older people always
had come and then they were mad for ever. So
he leaves the stage and comes straight met Now in that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
Moment, there was a roll ship. He was the adolescent
and Tamika I would have.

Speaker 5 (01:09:33):
Mark, so he his his mother wouldn't let him speak, Mark.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
ChIL let me speak? Why won't she let me speak?
So it was my job to go change her mind.

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
Yeah, and I said, Reverend, no, man, this is a
this is not a this is not our day.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
And he never he couldn't get it. He just couldn't
get it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:55):
He spent a lot of time, a lot of time
with him after that because he just wouldn't let it go.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
I know he wouldn't. I told you he was acting
a little different towards me, like, hey, how you doing it?

Speaker 5 (01:10:05):
Because March and so finally, you know, we did have
that kind of relationship. It was advice he gave me,
and there was advice I gave him. And surprisingly I
didn't think he would always listen to me, but he did.
Ye everything I said to him, and he listened. And
it wasn't always comfortable, you know, but he would listen.

(01:10:26):
And I think he respected that. And so when you
came to sell them and we were in the same
space and hey, man, his to me, let's let's let's talk.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
But if you look at the picture, you can see
I'm telling him something like this was the women's program
I had been in meeting's Reverend Jackson, you know them
people I told, we promised, because honestly, Reverend Sharp then
would have been my direct next in line. Like before
even saying okay, I could bring Reverend Jackson to speak

(01:10:55):
my mentor the person who raised me in the movement,
where was he like, how can you? You can't just anyway?
We would have just been out of control. Because if
that's the case, well, by the way, right, because Mark
is also my mentor right, look but no, but if
that's the case, and this is for real, remember the
co chair of the march was what's the sister, Glorious

(01:11:21):
Steinem and Harry Belafonte. So if you was gonna have
a man speak, go get the man who allowed his
office to be used. The money ran through the bank
account and all of that. You know, give so much
love to Carmen Perez forgetting mister B to do that.
So Rem Jackson, you can't speak today, but I'm glad
you fixed it, Mark, because I wouldn't have been right

(01:11:43):
with myself if all of these years, I mean that's
been so many years ago, we done laugh joked, and
he and I have hugged and loved on one another
since then. That's the thing of the past. But imagine
that's what you said is so important. And we're gonna
close on this wounds men, the wounds in the movement,

(01:12:04):
because he would have passed today. If Mark did not say,
y'all gonna fix this, he would have passed. And I
would have been sitting and holding something. And guess what.
I have that with some other people in the movement,
and I need to preach to myself. And oh, by
the way, some of them have gone on that I

(01:12:25):
can't fix it. One person that I had no hard feelings, nothing,
It was nothing but love, and I spent time with
right before her death, and just the love and support
that I received from this woman. Today, I have been
mourning again, dealing thinking about Hazel and Dukes, my dukes,

(01:12:47):
my dukes. But I'm so happy to know that Reverend
Jackson whooa hm, that Reverend Jackson and my Dukes will
join one another. They together now, and they have so
many children that they raised, and we're all carrying the
torch and trying to do the work that they left

(01:13:08):
us with. So God bless them. Long live Reverend Jesse
Jackson and long live my dukes, because I know they
somewhere fussing about Trump right now. They're cussing Trump down
from heaven.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:13:24):
And as African people, we will call on their spirits,
will call on their ancestry to empower us in this fight.
And we pray to God dispatches their shoulders so that
we can stand upon them.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
I appreciate you both, y'all. This I'm getting to the.

Speaker 5 (01:13:42):
Age where I'm standing on the banks of Jordan just
watching the ships go by. I'm losing a lot of people.
So folks, yes to Meik is right. We need to
mend because we don't know how much time we have left.
And I'll say in Reverend Jackson's defense, you know, people
accused him even at the Minion, the Women's march, going
to the mic, going to the camera.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
But Rim Jackson understood and we're seeing it today.

Speaker 5 (01:14:08):
We don't have media anymore other than what we're doing
right here, and so every minute there was a media opportunity,
he used it for our people. Some folks thought he
was using it for himself, but he wasn't. He was
using it for us. And we may not have that
luxury any longer. So now is the hour to come together,

(01:14:31):
and now is the hour for all of us to
get a little bit, a little bit closer in his memory.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Yea, and he would have had something to say now
dot he was gonna get up there on that microphone
and talking it over them and real good.

Speaker 5 (01:14:44):
Well, you know, like I said he did. There were
a bunch of preachers didn't want him to go to
the main Man march. Oh fharra, CON's gonna turn everybody
into a Muslim.

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
No.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
And I went to rim Jackson. I knew that pressure
was on him. I said, Reverend, And I'm I'm not
even thirty at that point. I'm not even thirty years old.
And if you can believe that, I said, Reverend, I
don't mean to be disrespectful, but you have to come
to the million man March, and you have to speak.
This is bigger than all of us, and what you
will say not only will be important, but I said, anybody,

(01:15:18):
it's pretty clear anybody who doesn't come is not gonna
be as relevant as they were anymore.

Speaker 6 (01:15:23):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:15:24):
And we both went to the airport. We got on
separate planes, and I think we still I don't even know.
We all had cell phones. Then we seen to be
something still had pages. So my page is going off
and it's Reverend Shockton.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Mack.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
What did you say to him he coming out?

Speaker 5 (01:15:43):
I said, well, I told him this is too important
ignore And sure enough in his way, because we went
to remember his his his one of his teachers and partners,
and a mentor to us all who doesn't whose name
isn't called enough was doctor Ron Walters, the political scientist
University of the greatest political sciences since the boys. And

(01:16:03):
so they came up with the voting rights plan. They
came up with the voter registration plan. The registered millions
of voters at every turn, and they talked about what
were we going to say at the Millionaire in March,
And when he came in and said what he asked us,
what can a million men do? We need to go back,
and even Minister fair Con said that was the greatest speech,

(01:16:25):
oh day.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
And so what can a million men do?

Speaker 4 (01:16:29):
What can a million men do?

Speaker 5 (01:16:31):
And so mices we talk about million kings and doing
something with men. We need to dust that one off
to people. Talk about the Democratic Convention speeches and those
were great but we.

Speaker 4 (01:16:42):
Need to dust off. What can a million men do?

Speaker 5 (01:16:44):
Because he was talking to a million men, but he
was talking to every single individual mail under the sound
of our voices, and.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
So we're thankful to him.

Speaker 5 (01:16:54):
My you know, my heart is heavy, and y'all stay
close to me because I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
Yeah, you're gonna be all right. It's on you now
you are him. I asked bishoply A daughtery to come
to a meeting with me that was pretty important this week,
and she said to me that it was just an
interesting space for her because under normal circumstances she would
have been with Alexis Herman in those environments taking counsel

(01:17:24):
from Alexis Herman. And for people who don't know who
Alexis Herman is, you should go and look her up.
She's also a leader. She worked for President Clinton and
she's a great strategy lad. Right, so she was a
Secretary of Labor. She was an amazing strategist as well.
And so I looked at her and said, you are
now the Alexis Herman, right, because now people are going

(01:17:47):
to depend on you, and there are many who are
dependent on me and depending on different people because those
before us have gone on. And so Mark, I have
to say to you today that you know when you
say what am I gonna do? Just keep picking up
the phone because so many of us are calling on
you now to get the advice that we would have

(01:18:09):
received from your predecessors. So you have taken on. You
got the torch, brother, carry.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
It, you got the juice now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
That's right, But you can't speak at the women's event.
I'm gonna tell you right now. I love you, Mark.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
All right, thank you, Mark, thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
All all right? Friends have joined you know us with
our friends. We love to have folks on this show.
Who are our friends that are doing really, really, really
really big things. And today we've been joined by someone.
I don't even know how she got here, because you know,
sometimes they don't want to talk to us. They'd be like,
this might be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
Big, little controversy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
I'm the boss, Boss, that's right, I fear I to Mensa,
who is my dear sister. Is the New York City
Chief Equity Officer and the Commissioner on New York City's
Office of Equity and Racial Justice. She's also an activist,
a strategist, an organizer, and a lawyer, and quite frankly

(01:19:18):
a woman, a black woman who is for the black people,
plus a whole lot of other people. And I'm so
excited for you to join us here today. The last
time we sat together, you were working on a campaign,
and now you are actually working for the mayor's office,
a black person who is working at a very senior

(01:19:39):
commissioner level for Mayor Zorhanmandani, and we're excited about what
you're doing. You're doing a hard, heavy lifting on racial
justice over there.

Speaker 7 (01:19:50):
Let's just say it is a labor of love, LA, but.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
It's lately absolutely l Yeah, work is supposed to be labor,
so let us but I can imagine that being in
an administration that unfortunately, no matter how different Mayor Mam
Donnie is, and we all know, I mean, I think
what we're going to talk about where you came from professionally,
and how you decided to dedicate so much of your

(01:20:17):
life to Mam Donnie's campaign because you guys gave up
every bit of your lives I know. Was it was extensive.
It wasn't like a regular campaign because he wasn't a
regular candidate thirty three years old at the time, you know,
arab which never happened. Progressive, anti all kind of things.

(01:20:38):
I mean, that is unheard of. And so the type
of work that it took to get him across the
finish line was so many communities required that you all
gave up so much of yourselves. And first of all,
thank you for doing that. I know the hurdles and
the hard times, but this is a historically racist city.

(01:21:00):
That's just the truth. You ain't saying it, I'm saying it.
It just is. And so when you go to be
even I don't care who you are, you could be
the most progressive, forward thinking, inclusive person. You are moving
into city Hall which has racist structures that exist just

(01:21:20):
by the nature of systemic issues that have been there
since forever, forever more. And we have watched multiple administration's
work to break those things down. And now you guys
have to do a lot of work. So being in
the racial justice area has to be a mammoth task
because you're looking at something that if it was up
to a whole bunch of people around the city, state,

(01:21:42):
and the country, you would this disposition wouldn't even exist,
or these two positions wouldn't even exist. So how does
that feel? That's big?

Speaker 7 (01:21:52):
Well, first and foremost, thank you for having me. It's
just amazing to be sitting with you, two, two folks
who are deeply respecting admire for your work. So i'd say,
like this, it is absolutely a herculean task, right like,
this is not for the week. I move with this
intention because it's important and we need to have it done.
But listen, some of the credit has to go to

(01:22:13):
New Yorkers, right like this work. This office was created
because in twenty twenty two, New Yorkers came to the
ballot box for a charter amendment specifically to tackle issues
of equity and racial justice, and to say that this office,
the Mayor's Office for Equity and Racial Justice, should be created,
and that the Commission Core should be created as a
watchdog to make sure that there are commitments made in

(01:22:36):
regards to racial equity and equity generally for this city.
And so this is the will of New Yorkers who
are coming together and said by majority in twenty twenty two,
this needs to happen. This office was created in twenty
twenty three, and I am the second person to hold
this role. All that being said, it is herculean mammoth.

(01:22:56):
As you said in Nature because this is not about intention.
If it was about good intention, we can believe that
things would have been shifted in other administrations in progress
was made, But these are about structures that you made right.
There are real structures and laws that have created hurdles
on way too many New Yorkers for too long, and
we both have to see it right, call it out,

(01:23:17):
and then do the shifting that needs to happen to
make sure that government is meeting its people in the
way that is accessible and real. And that's really what
this is about, directly, that we are being clear that
because of both systemic and current realities, hurdles have been
enacted upon different segments of communities, and it is the
job of government right to meet the needs of its people.

(01:23:40):
And what this demand is about is making sure that
all the city agencies are furthering this to make sure
that our tax dollars are well at work serving the
very communities in the manners of which they it is needed.
So it's same for the you know, for the faint
of heart. This is a mayor, to your point, said
we could do big, bold things, particularly at a time

(01:24:01):
where trust in government has atrophy.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Absolutely for a wholestal reason.

Speaker 7 (01:24:05):
So it's not just enough to have intention. There has
to be work. There's going to be struggled. It wasn't
all built in a day. It's not going to be
reconstructed in an administration. But our job is to do
as much as we can in the time we have there.
So I am humbled by the opportunity, also at all
of the hurdles, and look forward to working for folks

(01:24:28):
to make these shifts that we need to make, to
be pushed to do it right, to continue to be
pushed to do it, to be held in accountability, hopefully
in love to I don't believe that two are incongruent.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
That's right.

Speaker 7 (01:24:39):
But to move this stuff forward, it's going to take
all of us New Yorkers to do it is going
to take an out pouring of support across the country
so that New York can remain a model. You know,
you named a couple of things I am. I am
an unabashed New Yorker. So I think we are the
center of the known universe, that right, and that we
should be a model for how things could and should
move forward and equitable way, because equity, affordability, with our

(01:25:03):
equity is futile, right, It loses its meaning if we
do one without the hearth.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
So with all I said, do you feel pressure? Like
as like, do you feel pressure? Because you know, I'm
very excited about this administration. I'm very excited about the possibilities.
I'm watching the man just hit the ground running, you know,
trying to actually do the things he said during the campaign,
you knowing how passionate.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
You are, how qualified you are, how.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
Connected to our communities you are, and you know they're
gonna say, well, she's gonna do it, she has to
do it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:39):
So do you feel pressure?

Speaker 6 (01:25:41):
Absolutely? Absolutely so.

Speaker 7 (01:25:44):
So I'll say a few things right, As an organizer,
I am clear that there's no one person right, that
this has to be part of a collective ongoing because
even when we make progress, right, there is an onslaught
to try and take us back. So the pressure I
feel is in many steads, right. I feel pressure as
an individual who wants to be a part of showing

(01:26:07):
that government can and should serve its people unapologetically. It
should make people's day to day's lives better. Like public
servants and our north stars, how do we make people's
lives better? How do we make this work better? How
do we make the nose that we initially get as
short side? But when my daughter say side quests, ort
to waiter yes, right and clearly again, I say, hear

(01:26:30):
me say this again and again. As an organizer, I'm
not a martyr.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:26:34):
I do this work because I want to see things
change in our lifetime.

Speaker 4 (01:26:38):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:26:38):
There are a lot of reasons I do it, But me,
I want better for this city that I love. I
want my kids and your kids and our grandkids to
have a better city. I want people to live in dignity.
I don't want people leave in New York because they
say I can't afford it, or it's too hard to
live here anymore, or the systems that we're supposed to
empower me were turned against me. I want to stem

(01:27:00):
that outward migration of folks leaving New York. If you
want to move to New York because you want to
be close to your family, fine, But I don't want
anyone pushed out of New York, right. I don't want
communities that have made different neighborhoods of New York global
destinations having to move right, and so that there's a
pressure that comes with that and then you know, in
black communities, I will say, you know, we are rightfully

(01:27:23):
vocal and people will.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
Let you know and apprehensive, right because let me tell you,
I know that there are people I sell people folks
all the time. People like simple information, right, They got
enough complicated stuff. It's complex issues all around them. They're
trying to deal with, trying to figure out how to
pay it, what to do, how to handle, how to go,

(01:27:45):
how to come. So when you taught me you're the
Commissioner on Racial Justice and all this, they want to
know what does that mean for my life? Like? Should
I care about this? Is this just some big title
that's gonna be about, like you know, some big thing
that doesn't impact Monday to Sunday to Monday, Sunday to Saturday.

(01:28:11):
I gotta get here, come back, eat food park. And
I need to know if your position handles those things.
And I know the answer, but I would love for
you to make it clear to folks that they can
understand how it comes down to like the nitty greedy
as they say.

Speaker 6 (01:28:28):
Yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 7 (01:28:30):
So first and foremost, this office is seen as being
able to look across other agencies. Right, there have been
many equity officers in different agencies, but it makes sense
to be rowing in one in the right direction together.
So part of this was created to go or cross,
so there's no stilization, but to like the tangible, how
does this make my life better? It is coordinating all

(01:28:53):
of the different plans that the different agencies have and
saying this is the way that the city is going
to move forward, both in the short term in the
long term. And then what that looks like is I
can give examples now things like men Teach, a program
that is amazing. It encourages men, particularly men of color,
to become teachers based on the data that we know

(01:29:14):
that if you have more men of color teachers, they
have impact on young boys, Black, Latino, and Asian, and
that that has tangible benefits for New Yorkers. And so
it is an amalgamation of programs coming together and saying like,
we have to actually look at how city government focuses
with the lens of equity so that we're ensuring that
these programs that roll out are done in a way

(01:29:34):
of intention. As I said, this office was created in
twenty twenty three coming out of a pandemic recovery and
at that time, a charge was heavily based on rightfully,
so like making sure that recovery efforts are evenly distributed.
You know, we came out of snowstorms traditionally, not in
this administration, but at previous administrations. We know that outer boroughs,

(01:29:57):
especially in different neighborhoods, didn't get the same type of
access to sanitation services and snow removal, which made their
day to day difficult, Like they couldn't even get to
work because they still digging out in Sheepshood Bay or
in eastern New York while meanwhile, like the Upper eight
east Side is well, people still pissed off. Just so
you now better, right, okay, get better? But so those

(01:30:22):
are how like, how do we take this macro idea
to your point of equity and racial justice and make
sure it impacts people's day to day lives. It is
ensuring that the wheels of government that we have right
now are acting in a way that is conducive to
allow people to live in dignity, to allow them to
get to work, whether that's something as small as making
sure that streets are paved or excuse me, cleared equally,
that sanitation is done equally the access to health services

(01:30:44):
are done equally, all those different things that allow people
to actually receive government in a way that is like dignified.

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
Right, because because there are people who would say, then
you know us we talk. This is the show where
we say all the things okay, And I can imagine
someone saying, you're right equal because equally, downtown, the garbage
was there for too long, the snow was still blocking
the entrances for too long, so it was equally. It

(01:31:17):
equally pissed people off. But I do understand what you're
saying that that's sarcat Well, it's not, but it is.
But when we're talking about looking at all the agencies
and you explain through a sanitation lens, that wasn't something
that I would have even thought about to say that
there has to be equal services for all communities and

(01:31:39):
just never I just thought that that was a thing.
So for you to even mention that, it means that
at some point there wasn't or it was not what
it should be.

Speaker 7 (01:31:48):
Yeah, I would say people's lived experiences would tell you
it's not what it should be. My mom, I'm a
second generation New Yorker. My mom was born a Harlem
hospital and stories ag nausea right about what it's been
in different times and iterations. So part of this is
making sure that, as I said, we continue with the
sanitation like that it's equal. And I would even push
a little further if we think about right. We've been

(01:32:10):
talking about this in the lens of racial justice, which
is right, but also we think of an equity lens
to your point, when snow or other things aren't remediated
and block access the passageway, are differently abled brothers and sisters, right,
are disproportionately impacted. So we have to have a full
mindset of how what we think the day to day

(01:32:30):
things have impacts on people's ability to get around, kids can.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
Get into the schools, size the whole thing. And no,
I understand. So we're talking about education, we're talking about transportation.
Sanitation comes under transportation or as that its own zone,
so DT and then department and sanitation okay, and then
that would be health issues housing absolutely wow.

Speaker 6 (01:32:58):
Right, So and this is just within the city.

Speaker 1 (01:33:01):
That's a lot of work. It's a lot of work,
my so is something.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
So, but just listening to you and understanding all of
those things I know for me as I do work.

Speaker 3 (01:33:15):
I try to.

Speaker 2 (01:33:15):
Hone in on one or two things that I want
to be personally focused, though you know you have a
big job. Are there two one or two things that
you're saying in this position right now? These are the
things that I want to focus on, that I want
to make major change, that I want to impact, like
it's going to be part of the legacy that I
leave when I'm out of this position and I've moved on.

Speaker 6 (01:33:37):
So I appreciate the question. I'd say two things.

Speaker 7 (01:33:40):
One, you know, right now we are laser focused on
making sure to see through the mayor's commitment that the
plan is released within the first one hundred days of office.

Speaker 6 (01:33:51):
Right that's April tenth.

Speaker 7 (01:33:53):
So that is a priority, right that the mayor has
said this, It is not whether it is when, and
it is before April tenth. And then i'd say the
second piece is I'd love to come back because once
that plan is released and then there's a full understanding
of all the different recommendations, I'd love to be able
to come back and say.

Speaker 6 (01:34:12):
These are our priorities.

Speaker 7 (01:34:13):
Wow, So it's a it's a TUFA yeah, yeah, I mean, because.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
I know you're gonna do great things, and I just
want to hear, Like I was watching a documentary on
Barbara Lee yesterday and they were talking about when she
was the sole person that voted against the war after
nine one one, and she was criticized and all things,
and then how people started to get behind it and
it created her legacy. We all have different moments in

(01:34:40):
things that create our legacy. And Obama wanted Obama kay,
and he wanted first to you know, certain things. So
I just wanted just to hear your focus going in.
But it makes sense, you know, because you got you
got to get the agenda then and then at that
point you could say, this is exactly where I want
to put all my.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
Energy because we don't, like you said, one administration what
you all are going to have to and so by
the second one. But then the problem with that is
that you're going to be a deputy mayor, so it
won't be you'll no longer be a commissioner, So then
I don't know, hopefully this will still be under your
portfolio too. I mean, it just has to be like,

(01:35:17):
what are we talking about here?

Speaker 7 (01:35:19):
I will say that there is a lot of work
to move and you listen, and it has to move
it all up, and it has to move at all levels.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
You know, there was there was no better person to
be chosen just because of your background, which is what
I want to get into. One thing I love about
this administration. My son joked about being the crime boss,
and you know, I can't say you thought it was funny,

(01:35:49):
but you have to laugh to keep from crying sometimes
about the racism and the attacks that we received. I
didn't think it was funny at all. The whole time.
I was upset. I was hurt the way they put
not just him, but many of us in the papers. Zakia,
I'm sorry was improperly called a cop killer. I mean,

(01:36:10):
this was not and everybody's like, come on, you know
what the New York Post does. But it does not
feel good when you're at the center of these things
because other it has implications. You're online, your name is
being trashed or whatever. So I don't think it's funny
at all. And when I think about what is to

(01:36:32):
come for you, right and knowing one where you come
from your activists, it's in your bones, it's who you've
always been. And I appreciate that this administration has so
many people like you on different levels, whether it's transitioned
to inside of government. They have so many people. But

(01:36:53):
I know the storms that are coming that you have
not yet reached, and I think that your background prepares
you for that because you're used to it. Do you
feel that what I'm saying is true or you're like, no, no, no,
these are different kinds of attacks.

Speaker 6 (01:37:10):
Well, I'll say a few things.

Speaker 7 (01:37:11):
I agree one hundred percent that that these attacks are
not funny, right, and I understand the inclination to laugh
to keep from crying, but they are dangerous, right One.
The misinformation about what the work that you my sign
have done, that you've done to Meeka and others is
dangerous and it seeks to create, you know, a fear

(01:37:33):
of folks coming into movement work right, and we know
you know, you're supposed to come into movement with a love, righte,
a love for people, a love for for wanting to
see things better. And the visceral reactions and the hatred
are are real and have had impact. They have emotional impact, right,
they have a safety impact, They have financial impact absolutely,
And so I don't for a moment want to dismiss

(01:37:57):
what that looks like and what it means, particularly now
when we have different levels of violence perpetrated against people
because of misinformation that is put out and so losing
it out.

Speaker 6 (01:38:10):
And so it is. It is no small thing.

Speaker 7 (01:38:12):
And I would say, you know, throughout the course of
the campaign, we saw the mayor targeted. The mayor is
still targeted, and it is unfortunate and wrong. And that's
why I continue to lift up in times of darkness
other New Yorkers. Right, it may sound crazy, We know that.
You know, sometimes New Yorkers, we could be our best

(01:38:36):
cheerleader and at times our most vocal opponent. But when asked,
New Yorkers went to the ballot and chose a Charter
amendment for issues of equity and racial just when they
had an opportunity, they chose a mayor who had an
agenda that was about hope and opportunity for all New Yorkers.
And so I continue to believe that we have to

(01:38:57):
do the work to say it is okay to come
out for hope an opportunity, It is okay to understand
that opportunity for one does not mean at the expense
of others, and that we have to have a restructuring
of how government operates to make sure that it works
for all of us, and so lifting those things up,
saying it, and doing the work unfortunately comes with a target.

(01:39:18):
In this time that we're in, I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:39:21):
Look forward to it.

Speaker 7 (01:39:22):
I look to be hopefully surrounded by folks who are
joining this fight because they are impacted and realize that
it has real impact for themselves and their and their
loved ones and their community. But to act as if
it's not out there would be would just be untrue.
And so I don't believe that we get into movement
work to hide things from the people. Folks who were

(01:39:44):
organizing and advocating do it at times at their own
personal jeopardy because they have a faith about something.

Speaker 6 (01:39:50):
That moves on before and after them.

Speaker 3 (01:39:53):
That was good, That girl good.

Speaker 7 (01:39:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:00):
So in this first two weeks that you've had this position.

Speaker 1 (01:40:04):
This is week be full.

Speaker 6 (01:40:06):
Last week was my full first week. So we are
on day seven seven as you enter.

Speaker 3 (01:40:11):
Into your second week.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
Is there anything that you know that shocks you about
this like government? You know, because you're not like a
government person, you're activist. You've been in the streets and lawyers,
so you've seen it from Is there anything that you're
looking like, Wow, this is a lot different than I anticipate.

Speaker 7 (01:40:29):
You know, I didn't know how big, how many like
government employees there are city workers there.

Speaker 6 (01:40:35):
There are a lot.

Speaker 7 (01:40:36):
So I'm learning about that. I'm learning new agencies that
you didn't even know. I did not know exists.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
And Bayfiel's be doing stuff for us, and they might be.

Speaker 6 (01:40:46):
They might just don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:40:47):
So so I do want to, you know, to continue
with a little piece of hope and opportunity. I do
want to lift up the civil service, the public servants,
the workers who you know, part of their job is
to go if they're doing it right, you go day
to day without knowing that existed.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
That means your dame was wow. Wow.

Speaker 7 (01:41:04):
And I'm learning a lot, you know, I need you
all to keep me covering in prayer.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
And you're so smart, but you got to learn. It's
a different learning curve, a different learning curve, and you're
working for a mayor who is super smart. This man
I watched him take We went to a meeting with
him a few This was this might have been the
meeting before he took office and he already won, but
it was in that little transition period he came to

(01:41:32):
a meeting with the crisis Management system's leadership, which is
for people who don't know that is the civilians that
do violence prevention work in New York City, well in
New York. And so he walks into the meeting, he
sits down. Now we have presentations, We've got decks with

(01:41:54):
details every single thing about how much it's spent, how
much more we would need and not we, because I
don't we until freedom don't get a dime. I've never
received the dime. And I helped to start the crisis
Management system in twenty fourteen. I was I'm one of
the founders, but I've always been working nationally. So once

(01:42:17):
it got up and rolling and I did what I
needed to do to help them, I left and was
doing a whole bunch of things, as you know, around
the nation. And I never stayed here to create a
site for a violence prevention site. I just or have
always supported and so I never opened a violence prevention
site or any of that. But nonetheless I say we

(01:42:39):
because it is my community, and so we have all
these plans and decks and want him to understand the
details what the crisis management system is, how it started,
what the goals are who are the people that work
within it. We just had five hundred and that's not
even a full that's like twenty five percent of the
people who work with in this system, people formerly incarcerated mothers,

(01:43:03):
you know, who've lost their children. I mean, we got
all the decks with the stuff, and he comes in.
He sits down, and we spread out all his paper
and all this whiteboard stuff, and he says, so let
me start. The man knew almost all of the stuff
that was in the deck, Sofia, he just sat down

(01:43:23):
and started being like, and so you are only work
nine to five, Well, how does that work? Or eight
hours a day? Because you know people move that around.
He said, so you're saying you need twenty four hours.
We have to try to figure that out if this possible. Phases,
he knew how many sights some stuff was given to him.
Obviously Erica Ford had worked on making sure he was prepared.

(01:43:45):
But you can tell the level of detail that he himself,
especially as a New York State assembly member, had been
into the weeds to learn it and whatever you tell
him at twelve o'clock, at five and six o'clock, he's
saying it like he knows it. Right, that's very powerful

(01:44:06):
because everybody's brain. But I guess that's a thirty four
year old break because I remember when mine used to
work like that. It don't work like that anymore, you know,
and I am. And so now that means everybody around him,
you guys have to be smart and quick because you
did you. I mean, what's the point if he knows
things and you can't teach him or tell him anything?

Speaker 7 (01:44:27):
So you're on a different learning curve. Listen, we are on.
But so one, yes to what you said about the mayor.
I think part of what you are are articulating for
folks is a mayor who is hyper focused on how
these important programs and policies impact people's lives. Yeah, right,
And so it requires a level of detail and understanding

(01:44:48):
so that when they're with like the different CMS providers,
it can get right to the meat of how do
we support these programs, like what what are the hurdles
that we need.

Speaker 1 (01:44:57):
To that's that's right. So he's what he said, he said,
I and all and stuff, So now tell me what's
the problem, right to get into it.

Speaker 7 (01:45:04):
And so what it requires, to your point is, are
people at all levels, the deputy mayor level, the commissioner level,
the advisors, the policy analysts who are similarly locked in
and want to get to the heart of the batter
and figure things out. So it is, it is both
of It has been a journey. It is you know,
amazing learning curve and it.

Speaker 6 (01:45:25):
Is to my So it's a lot.

Speaker 7 (01:45:27):
It's just a simple right, I I too, am no
longer thirty four And it is a lot is required
because a lot is expected.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
Yeah, tell us your background, Where did you come from?
How did they find you to say come work with
us on the campaign.

Speaker 7 (01:45:47):
So you know, before joining the campaign, that was working
at an organization called Community Change as their chief of programs,
kind of overseeing issue campaigns, electoral campaigns policy. And that
for me came out of my background of serving as
the executive director of a base building organization here in
New York.

Speaker 6 (01:46:06):
Community Voices heard, and.

Speaker 7 (01:46:08):
So I had had the privilege, through my time at
Community Change of going across the country to provide support
and strategy to community based organizations across the country in
Mississippi and Louisiana, Michigan and a New Mexico, a bunch
of places in between. And you know, had some mutual
friends who have been steadfast early supporters of the mayor

(01:46:31):
who called and said, Fear, we need you to come in.
We'd love for you to think about what would look
like to help and do the politics for this campaign.
And for me it was an opportunity for a few things.
One to like finally be in New York mostly as
opposed to like traveling all the time, but also to

(01:46:51):
be a part of a campaign that I felt was inspiring,
that was important, that was rooted in trying to make
a city I love better for myself, my family, and
where I thought there was a real role to play
to counter any narrative about a lack of understanding of
issues of race and how it plays into the you know,
policy and politics, gender and all the different confluence of

(01:47:16):
different identities that we know that folks are steeped in.

Speaker 6 (01:47:20):
And so you know, it was a.

Speaker 7 (01:47:23):
As you said, robust in the campaign that had a
let's say, a lot of attention. And I had some
good folks who took me aside after who said we
need you.

Speaker 6 (01:47:34):
To come in. Yeah, we need you to come in.

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
Like me, I texted, call, sent a bird, told other people,
conspired with people a FIA has to stay.

Speaker 7 (01:47:46):
So yeah, that's part of the pressure campaign. You can
talk about my pressure so listen. It was a confluence
of a of a lot of different pieces of you know,
I talk about my organizer background, but I started at
the legal aids and so part of my movement from
lawyer to organizer was just frankly based on a power

(01:48:08):
assessment of frustration of doing important work, but just you know,
too many times seeing judges go a certain way, or
by the time we won a case, it felt like
almost we lost a case because a bunch of the
plaintifs either moved on or just a host of different pieces.
And so the idea of organizing of everyday people coming
together and doing SuperOrdinary things.

Speaker 6 (01:48:30):
For the love of theirselves.

Speaker 7 (01:48:31):
And their families deeply shaped me. So that idea of
organizing of everyday people coming together to do things that
changed their lives and change the lives of a lot
of people has centered me. I think that it's exciting
to have a lot of movement people coming into government
who are humble and who are learning, but who have

(01:48:52):
an unapologetic north star of how to make people's lives better,
how to ensure that the affordability agenda of you know,
fast and free buses, a free childcare, a rent freeze,
how to make sure it happens, and how to hopefully
change the course of what is possible.

Speaker 6 (01:49:09):
It's for city.

Speaker 4 (01:49:10):
Government, So.

Speaker 3 (01:49:12):
You know, I asked the dog quest.

Speaker 2 (01:49:14):
Okay, So first I want to know, before I met
the man, I just watched him and I was like,
it's you know, I like do it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:20):
I like the things he's saying, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
But when I got into the room with him and
we started to engage, I was just immediately just taken
by this level of authenticity that he has. Like when
he's talking to you can tell and he's authentically having
a conversation with you. He's listening intently, he's he is
really taking in everything you say. And then probably two

(01:49:43):
days later after this, he was on the float on
one twenty fifth Street, right and.

Speaker 3 (01:49:48):
I'm walking down the block, just walking on the side.

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
He sees me and he soluts me like across the street,
and and just from that interaction, it just showed how
personal he is and how intentional he is.

Speaker 3 (01:49:59):
So I want to know, like, how was your first interaction.

Speaker 7 (01:50:03):
Yeah, I'd say a few of those things resonate with me. Uh,
the intention, the both like urgency but also humility is
something that stuck with me. And then, frankly, I'll say
the excitement of both the folks who were already on
the campaign who were just amazing and believers, and the
excitement of you know, it sounds tripe, but it's real

(01:50:24):
of young people, right, Like one of the I have
a I have two kids, and it was one of
my daughters who's like, mom, I really like this mister Zorram.

Speaker 6 (01:50:34):
That was the thirteen year old.

Speaker 7 (01:50:37):
Oh yeah, they love him, they love And so to
see so many young folks make clear their intention of
they want this, they want this city to be something
that they can be a part of, was particularly moving
for me because it was a manifestation of what a
lot of us and movement have been talking about for

(01:50:58):
many an election cycle, an electure. So to actually see
it happening made clear to me. I was like, this,
this is something I want to be a part of.
This is something I hope to be able to shape
and to be able to work with people who are
just unapologetic about talking about what this vision could look like.

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
And were you shocked, like you're gonna say that like
y'all saying we saying that. I was.

Speaker 6 (01:51:23):
I don't think it was shocked.

Speaker 1 (01:51:24):
I was refreshed when they said, like there's a genocide
happening in Palestine, you didn't go we in trouble now.

Speaker 7 (01:51:33):
I think to my son's point, what we are seeing
as part of like this distrusting government of people not
saying the thing. And authenticity is a simple word, but
it is such a rarity. And people saw, I think,
in him, both of their own hopes and dreams. Different
members of community saw something that for them was a
firse rite, someone who looked like them, who worshiped in

(01:51:56):
the same way, who may have been from like have
family members from a say country, That gave some hope,
but also someone who could both talk to larger issues
but also make clear the day to day needs that
so many we're grappling with. So it was refreshing where
that was just the understanding for that is how we
are going to move forward. And yeah, and even amidst

(01:52:20):
all of that, I am very clear that we are
now at the hard part. Yes, the governor, yes, where
you can say it, but then you might might got
a change, You might put like a the and some
other words before and then that's just and now there
are more people that have to be covered in all

(01:52:41):
your communications, all your intention all your actions, and we
have to be able to understand that. It doesn't mean
that things should change, but we have to respect that
there's a difference between how you communicate when you're on
a campaign trail and how you communicate as mayor and
team running a city with a million.

Speaker 1 (01:53:03):
How many people here?

Speaker 3 (01:53:04):
Eight?

Speaker 7 (01:53:04):
How many northern seven? It's over, it's between seven and
nine million. We've lost a little bit of population. So yes, right,
and so I'm gonna keep yeah, like a window for
the world, hopefully a model for the nation.

Speaker 6 (01:53:22):
But it's not a small thing.

Speaker 2 (01:53:25):
So my second part, my question is so now in
this administration, you pretty much are like the condouan to
the community, especially the black community.

Speaker 3 (01:53:34):
And when we look when.

Speaker 2 (01:53:37):
You have been deputized the h n I C inside
this this administration, and that comes with a lot because
you know, black people are gonna challenge you.

Speaker 3 (01:53:46):
They're gonna say this ain't right, this is how is
that right?

Speaker 2 (01:53:49):
Because I know because I hear it all the time,
because every you work with the man, why this ain't happening,
And I'd be like, well, just calm down a little
bit and I and then when I get the thing,
did I tell her?

Speaker 3 (01:54:01):
And then she gonna call you? So how is that navigating?

Speaker 2 (01:54:04):
Because we know how black people are and you're going
to be in a certain position, and how is that?

Speaker 7 (01:54:11):
So let me say this, while I absolutely understand and
respect them and deep appreciation for the the the coalition
of different of different communities, and wanted to make sure
they have folks they can talk to. The expectations should
be that every door is open to every community. And
what I mean by that is I am happy to

(01:54:33):
be one of many people who hear directly from impacted communities,
and I want to make sure that pressure is equally
applied because our business is city business, and city business
is our business, and so there is no one gatekeeper,
nor should there be one gatekeeper. There should be a

(01:54:55):
multitude of people who take our communities as vital and
important and parts of a strong sulf. And so I'm
happy to be I'm part of an orchestra that is
singing or playing the music of equity.

Speaker 6 (01:55:08):
But it's got to be an orchestra.

Speaker 1 (01:55:10):
Yeah. In other words, she didn't say this, I'm saying it.
Call them white folk over there too and tell them
about how you feel, because it's not fair for us
to or which we're gonna do it anyway. So I
don't think of calling anybody else except you and of
course Jamilla, because we are familiar with who we're familiar with.

(01:55:32):
You could have been the head of sanitation for real,
you could have been in transportation, and we're gonna call
you to talk about health and the school problem. That's
just what we go That's because that's how well. Also,
access has been so limited for different communities, not just
a black community. I would imagine that there is a

(01:55:54):
person who may be of Latino descent who's listening, who's
listening to this conversation, like, oh, I won't have it
anybody I don't know who' call like, you know, because
we've had to fight. This is not a thing. And
that's why there were people who challenged the idea, the
fact that there was no black deputy mayor, and there
has been a black deputy mayor since I think before Bloomberg, right,

(01:56:18):
or maybe Bloomberg, No Giuliani. In fact, I mean, we're
not gonna get you into all of those conversations today.
But since Giuliani there has been a black deputy mayor.
So some of us have an issue with that. And
that's okay because we we well, not that it's okay
that it didn't happen, but it is okay that we
have to have a push and pull. There's gonna be

(01:56:39):
places where we don't agree things we have to say.
But people that didn't just happen. Giuliani did not wake
up in the morning and say, oh, I'm just gonna
go a point a black deputy mayor. That happened because
people fought really hard to ensure that we have position,
we have access, and at our comunities are respected. And

(01:57:02):
so yeah, if I'm trying to get, you know, some
help because somebody was arrested and I think that they
may be being done wrong. Yeah, I could try to
call all these people, but I'm just call you the
same way I call Tiffany Raspberry. When she was in
the Adams administration. I called Tiffany, She like, what is this?

(01:57:22):
The flowers ain't right on Hunt seventeenth Street. No, what
was the thing? I called Tiffany about every other week? Rats?
And this lady, this lady was into governmental affairs. She's
in Washington, DC going to work with people who are
you know, obviously elected officials, big business people. She's meeting

(01:57:44):
with the mayor. And here's Tamika Mallory. I need you
to call me back. It's very important. She's like, what
happened girl on one twenty sixth Street between what behind
the Apollo. There's rats and there's people with needles, and
there has to be something done. I called to one
day complaining about some other issues, nothing to do with

(01:58:07):
the things that's in her portfolio. But people want they
want yes, they want computer, yeah, but they want you
to do that job. But they also want somebody over
there to answer the phone call about my particular needs
and to his credit with all the issues, because you know,
I'm Eric Adams. I have plenty to say about him.

(01:58:27):
You didn come up here for that. We could call
him too and say, mister mayor, this ain't right, that
ain't right, and that has to if you don't, if
you're not doing that, you can't serve this city properly.
It's too much going on. You know, you got to
be able to pick up the phone. So God bless you, Yes,
because I got some stuff you on my list. I don't.

Speaker 7 (01:58:50):
I'd say that constituent services are. It's what you said
they thank you for very important. I want to encourage
people to make sure that to press upon and have
expectations across the board because we are absolutely here to
serve you right, to make sure that services run well,
to get that feedback right so that we're clear and

(01:59:11):
get real time situational awareness of what's happening. Some folks
I'll be included, will help direct people to is it
we want to make sure it's the Office of Mass Engagement.

Speaker 1 (01:59:20):
What are the appropriates about that? What does that mean?

Speaker 7 (01:59:23):
So it's the recreation of the Community Affairs Unit under
the leadership of uh OF Tasha Vaan Opkins, Office of
Mass Engagement that will engage the masses so you can
call over there to complain about the rats, to lift
up issues the USC, so that information is spread across agency,
so that we can have an intersectional and clear approach

(01:59:45):
about like where and how and but you know, all
jokes aside too, and you raise this point to meek
of like we should make sure that are in our communities,
Black communities, Latino Asian American wherever that folks understand and
have an expectation that folks should be accountable to even
if you don't have someone you can name or you
don't have someone on speed dial that that like there's

(02:00:06):
an expectation of folks to be responsive right within.

Speaker 6 (02:00:10):
Reason all this, but like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:00:12):
Absolutely be saying what's going on in your communities and
how it is impacting you in what you need government
to do for you, and.

Speaker 1 (02:00:17):
If the agency's work properly, then you should be able
to call the people locally who are supposed to deal
with certain things and it move and not have to
be calling you about it. But the rat situation, as
you know, city became a super problem that you know,
I'm being funny that I called Tiffany, but it wasn't
one rat. We're talking about two hundred rats on one street.

(02:00:41):
That's that's a problem that requires like some serious focus
from a lot of people. Who do you call if
rats are problem? Now I'm really big on I don't
know if you know this. You may not, As my
dear friend, I think I didn't. I never Maybe you
don't know. This is an area that I literally will
work for. I don't want to work in government at all,

(02:01:03):
but I would go to work in the mayor's office
if somebody put me in the place of helping figure
out about the rats. That is very serious to me
because I am sure it's not just esthetics, and you know,
of course I'm scared lifeless, but it's public healthish.

Speaker 6 (02:01:21):
It's a wholest of issue.

Speaker 1 (02:01:21):
You're eating the food, you bringing germs around. It's disgusting.
I cannot take it. I'm really big on this. They know.
I send videos to people every day. Did you see
one that's over there? It's over there. I'm very big
on this, and I know a lot of people who
are living just living with it. They running around, they
can't get angela Ye had a whole thing where she

(02:01:41):
couldn't get out of her house in the morning. She
used to have to and she lived, you know, angela
Ye living all right, and she used to have to
bang her way out because at the time that she left.
Remember she was on a six o'clock in the morning,
so she had to leave at four thirty, so it's.

Speaker 3 (02:01:55):
Dark time, that's the time.

Speaker 7 (02:01:59):
So I don't know who is specifically charged with rat remediation,
but I can assure you I will come back to
you know, you.

Speaker 3 (02:02:05):
Don't have a rats are before? We need another rat, not.

Speaker 1 (02:02:08):
Me, but somebody because because you have to be you
have to be willing to like look at them and
touch them, and that I ain't in. You can spot
them every pock and spot every moorre, but I ain't
getting ready to do nothing. You're not gonna have me.

Speaker 7 (02:02:20):
In the room where they put them up on the
screen and you see it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:24):
How did this conversation go to rats? But that leave
it to me? And I told the mayor. He thinks
I'm crazy because I have said you still dealing with rats, right?
Don't let the rats get off the I told Elle,
the chief of staff. Hey, she's like, yeah, yeah, you
know like what you're about to say. I said, Elle,
the rats, please make sure the agenda and hear y'all
say anything about their We.

Speaker 7 (02:02:47):
Don't want the rats anywhere near the fast and free busses.
We need some that is so good? You so good,
you amazing a fear.

Speaker 2 (02:02:54):
Well, we appreciate you and we love you, and we
know that you're going to do amazing things and we're
going to be proud of you and me the clown boss,
I'll be raising here and raising my hand.

Speaker 1 (02:03:04):
That's right. We look forward to your leadership, and one
day you're going to be mayor. Yeah, I know it
for sure. We speaking because it has to be said
so that somebody can claim it when it happens. You're
going to be mayor, because that's just who you are
to our people. You are been so authentic. You tell
us what you can do, what you can't do. Make

(02:03:24):
sure you keep that and do not let the people,
not black people, the people drive you crazy.

Speaker 7 (02:03:31):
Well, I it's just been an absolute pleasure and joy
to be with you all today. Please continue to you know,
keep me in prayer, hold folks accountable, give me information
so I can can learn and hear, and make sure
to be sharing that. I am excited to serve under
this mayor and I look forward to be part of
this larger coalition that will move.

Speaker 6 (02:03:53):
This pieces forward. So just thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:03:55):
Yeah, and you guys, you know you have to deal
with the Donald Trump factor to the Trump administration. So
I would imagine that there is a even though you
are in government now, but there's still an organized side
of you muscle that you would have to flex to
make sure that the people know how to back you
up when it comes when they start trying to fight

(02:04:16):
you because they're going to do that. They don't want
racial equity in New York City or anywhere else. And
when you start saying words like yeah, it's a beacon
of hope. Oh so now you want that to spread
to New Jersey and then Pennsylvania and all the way
down to the south. They don't want that. And so

(02:04:37):
we're excited to see it, but we also know the
fight is going to require us to stay engaged, so
you can depend on us to do that. Thank you
of Fia Tremenza. Thank you, and thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:04:51):
Shout out to the brilliant Feah. She shocked man, you know,
just just listening to her and just understanding disadministration. You know,
like I've been, I've been excited since this administrator started.
You know, nothing is perfect, but I just really feel
like there's a level of authenticity and there's a real

(02:05:12):
want to do something different to create for what we
want to see in New York. So it was interesting
hearing her, just a breath of fresh air, just seeing
someone like her, knowing she's in position and she actually
wants to do the work.

Speaker 1 (02:05:26):
I'm impressed. By because even talking to us, you know,
it only takes one sound bite to get you in
the news for six weeks, getting in trouble about something
that happened on the TMI show, and you know, we
gonna tell it as we feel. But I appreciated how
she wasn't doing a spend, but she was just making

(02:05:48):
sure that we didn't put words in her mouth, that
her messaging was consistent with what she believes, and that
she was professional, and it was very I appreciated the
way in what she car read the tone. She didn't say,
well I don't agree, or you know, it wasn't It
wasn't so much that, but she made she made sure
to represent more than just black folks, because that's important, right, Like,

(02:06:14):
these people are not the mayor of black people. We're
gonna have to, unfortunately accept that if we want mayor
black people, we're gonna have to figure out who that
is and then hire them, put them in position, and
let them be mayor of black people. She is in
the office of the mayor of New York City, and

(02:06:36):
as she said, somewhere between seven and nine million people.
That's a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (02:06:41):
It's a lot. It's a whole and.

Speaker 1 (02:06:42):
It's a lot of work that goes with that. So
I appreciate a fear. I know. She's passionate and you
can hear that and she's just but she's real because
she's like, oh this is not this is this is real.
This is serious.

Speaker 3 (02:06:55):
Job.

Speaker 1 (02:06:57):
Yeah, just two jobs. She's she's the Chief Equity Officer,
but then she is also the Commissioner of Equity and
Racial Justice. That's two different things.

Speaker 3 (02:07:10):
Sounds like a lot.

Speaker 7 (02:07:11):
I should have asked her that you get two different
pay checks. Tell loan, miss that's about that should be
about five at the time.

Speaker 1 (02:07:18):
And the city don't even pay that.

Speaker 2 (02:07:20):
I need a check, so for my I don't get
it today.

Speaker 1 (02:07:29):
Please God, don't talk about Trump.

Speaker 3 (02:07:31):
No, I was gonna talk about Oh my.

Speaker 2 (02:07:33):
Godot no, but I'm not going to talk about Trump.
Was know what I'm not because there's something that's been
you know, just you know, I just have to say
things how.

Speaker 3 (02:07:44):
They are, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:07:45):
I was gonna talk about Trump, and I don't even
know how to compare him to Obama, you know, because
and it has to do with the All Star Game.
So I was just talking about I've seen Obama at
the All Star game, just seeing how he's just such
a class act. You know, everybody that came into content
tack with him the way he just he just has
an aura he does that is just amazing.

Speaker 3 (02:08:06):
He does, you know, he and.

Speaker 1 (02:08:07):
He just and there is no perfect leader. He definitely
he's he He is not attending games where people are
booing him.

Speaker 2 (02:08:16):
Because it's just they're not at all people It is said,
this is my favorite person. And Anthony Edwards, who was
the MVP of the game, we're just talking about how
he wanted to really play good for Obama. He he
was going to crack him for him, and he was.
He said, He's my favorite person in the world. So
I was going to talk about that because I just
didn't even understand the comparison to them. When people make

(02:08:37):
those comparisons just it's actually just disrespectful.

Speaker 3 (02:08:41):
But then I saw Lebron James at the Prescot.

Speaker 2 (02:08:46):
M H and you know, the Israeli reporter how do
you know Israel because they said they said it's from
the Israeli Times or something. I don't know exactly which
paper or but they actually was someone from that represented
Israelis and he was talking and you know, everyone has

(02:09:07):
the right to their own opinions. You know, you have
your own political stances, and we all have different political stances.
And saying that you support Israel, no, listen, he said
that he had put that, he put the whole statement.
You know, there are a lot of a lot of

(02:09:28):
people that said, we don't want to be political. No,
not in that press. He put out a whole statement
that's said he supported And here again he says that,
you know, he's heard so many good things about Israel
and he can't wait to go there. And you know,
it's disheartening when you look up to a player, you know,

(02:09:49):
because I love Lebron James. I think there's so many
things that he does as an athlete, like he's hands
down probably the top athletes in basketball players is top
five ever who ever played the game, you know, But
it was so disheartening to hear that and have never
heard him say one thing about the Palestinians losing it

(02:10:12):
life was It's so disheartening to know that we're in
a time where the world is seeing kids and babies
die still to this day, and he's never said one
thing about that, never, And it's really disheartening to me,
and I just don't. I really don't get how you

(02:10:32):
have a platform that big, you know and understand, and
you're not blind to what's happening. You see the death,
you see the loss of life, You see people actually
being killed, You see an administration. You watch what then
y'ahoo is doing. You know who is the prime minister
of Israel. And never one time have you ever said

(02:10:55):
anything on behalf or in support of people who are losing.

Speaker 1 (02:11:00):
Their lives, who are being killed.

Speaker 3 (02:11:02):
Who are being killed, being murdered.

Speaker 1 (02:11:04):
Because we don't say they're losing their lives, because you
could have died of heart exactly, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:11:12):
Being bombed to death, murder and the fact that you're
probably arguably the biggest athlete in this world, and you
have a platform and you constantly see the need to
speak up on behalf of Israel, but to never say that,
you know, I don't even want to see the Palestinian
people being murdered, that I want to see an end

(02:11:32):
too this, But just to say that you stand by Israel,
you can't wait to go to Israel, never have said
anything about Palestine. It's just it's so disheartening to me.
And that's why I just got I want to shout
out people like Kyrie who even with the backlash, has
always stood firm.

Speaker 3 (02:11:49):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:11:49):
He you see him representing something that's that stands for
the people in Palestine. You might see him wear a scarf,
you might see him wear a hat, you might see
where a button and he's, oh, he's been vocal, you know,
and he utilizes his platform and he's lost a lot.
And that takes integrity for me, and you know, and

(02:12:10):
that's why he's my favorite. This Like, we've had the
Jordans and then we had the Kareem Abdujabbars who were
willing to take on that stance because there was a
humanitarian crisis, who wanted to stand on the side of
the people. And it really hurts me because I actually, like,
I love the Bar's time, he had schools, He's done

(02:12:31):
so much for our people. But I just don't understand
how you constantly can utilize your voice to speak on
one half of something and just ignore the half with
people are being killed and murdered and not even acknowledge
it one time. It's so obtuse, right, It's so obtuse

(02:12:52):
for you to utilize, to constantly utilize your platform for
that and it's disheartening to me.

Speaker 3 (02:12:57):
So I wanted to just shout out.

Speaker 2 (02:12:58):
Someone like Kyrie, who I've watched as a young boy,
young boy from nineteen years old, came into this league
and he's always stood with principals. He's always still with morals.
He was willing to sacrifice, compromise, and even lose because
humanity was the most important thing.

Speaker 1 (02:13:16):
Then Lebrenan, mean, he don't believe that shit. Don't you
let him sit there and tell he don't believe it
at all. These people are doing what these managers and
all these folks that these handlers tell you, And that
doesn't mean that the man that handlers are connected to

(02:13:39):
Israel in some way. Even black people will be scared
to death. Black people, Latinos people, white folks that are
not even Jewish, just people in general get so nervous
about the possibility of losing money or losing access or

(02:14:01):
being like Kyrie, who's taking some massive, massive blows for
his support of the Palestinian people and his You know,
lebron has said things on behalf of black folks who've
been killed. But Kyrie has a different way. He takes
it to the next level. Kyrie is out here with us.

(02:14:22):
He gonna send money, you know, time walk the street.

Speaker 3 (02:14:26):
And that's to me is what it is to be right.

Speaker 1 (02:14:29):
Why why why why do you want.

Speaker 2 (02:14:31):
To get hundreds and millions of dollars and you can't
contribute to the to the benefit of humanity, really contributed
to it.

Speaker 1 (02:14:40):
Because see, this is the thing he would probably say,
nobody knows what he's done, right, maybe he has.

Speaker 2 (02:14:48):
You know, we know, we know that you said I
support Israel. No, I know that that you said that
you can't wait to go to Israel.

Speaker 1 (02:14:54):
I know that, But I'm not even talking about that.

Speaker 4 (02:14:55):
I was.

Speaker 1 (02:14:56):
I was more so honed in than on black issues, right,
like black issues. I don't know if Lebron James gave
money to Trayvon Martin's family, I don't know. Out of
ass we ain't never discussed that. And shout out to
Sabrina Fulton. Is her sixtieth birthday this week as well.

(02:15:17):
So it's just a lot of things going on with people,
people living, people passing, a lie happening. I love you
so much, Sabrina. But I don't know. He may have.
He may have given Mike Brown's family. He may have.
We don't know, but there's something to be said about
a person like Kyrie who doesn't go around telling it,
but he ain't gonna stop you from saying that if

(02:15:39):
that's what you choose to do. There are people who
put you under NBA that they don't want anybody to
know that they supported certain causes because they're so concerned
about these managers and what the people gonna say, and
you you know, in the league and whoever these big
shots are, who again I want to be, because what

(02:16:00):
they will try to do is say that I'm saying
that Jewish people or people or Israelis are the ones
or Zionists. Rather, that's what they'll try to say, are controlling,
which would be a trope, right, are controlling the way
that celebrities influences people with money moved. That's not what

(02:16:21):
I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I have watched
black folks, black folks who ain't never traveled to Israel.
They don't even know what the word Zionism means. And
still they will tell you, oh, no, you can't say
that because the mask gon be mad you're talking about
don't don't know. That's what they do. And so it's

(02:16:44):
sad because Kyrie is an example of someone who, first
of all, has studied history. Kyrie is a student of history.
He knows, he understands, and the rest of these people,
that's not their concern, right, It ain't got nothing to
do with me. I worked my way up, I worked
my way out, and I'm not about to lose my

(02:17:06):
fortune because or lose my fortunate status because I decide
to step into this thing over here. That and it's
really sad, But I can tell you one thing. When
Lebron was told to shut up and dribble, that's also
what they're telling him about Palestine. Shut up and play

(02:17:29):
basketball and talk about You mean, you heard great things,
that's all you heard? Are you kidding me? You heard
great things about a place where there are streets that
Palestinians can't even walk on the same street with the Israelis.
You heard about that because we saw it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:49):
Literally, and it's crazy. And I was watching a video
when Nan y'all who was in America, and he got
like a standing ovation with all of the elective It was.

Speaker 3 (02:17:59):
Just one of the weirdest things.

Speaker 1 (02:18:01):
I just think that the other day you can't get
around because y'ahoo was in town.

Speaker 2 (02:18:06):
Yeah, Now, when he was in town, they had a
meeting and they stood in clapp for this man for
like ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (02:18:13):
That was your boy. The other what's the football team?
One of them football teams', you know, I don't know
the names, but it was the owner of the football
team who was given Yahoo a signed football I think,
and they was giving him some kind of award for
being the great this man.

Speaker 3 (02:18:28):
No, this was like a congressional meeting.

Speaker 1 (02:18:32):
Oh that might have been. It's been, but it was
a football owner, a football owner of a team owner.
I remember I saw this, and the man is classified
as a war criminal. But it gives you an understanding
of why, to go back to an earlier point, the
Epstein files are as they are, and nobody has really

(02:18:55):
been held accountable for it, right because just like other
nations are holding folks accountable, they have literal trials and stuff.
They have open investigations in other nations where people have
to step down from major positions because they have been

(02:19:18):
named in the Epstein files. Okay, in other countries. America
ain't doing shit about what has happened, just throwing just
laying Maxwell in jail. That ain't shit. That happened because
you almost had no other choice but to do something
that there is a rosta, including including the President of

(02:19:43):
the United States, who are implicated in those files. And
for whatever reason, America just turns its blind eye, can't see,
can't hear, and can't do anything about it. And it's
the same thing that happened every time the United Nations
voted on whether or not funding and and and sanctions
should be stopped. The funding should be stopped and sanctions

(02:20:05):
should be put on Israel for killing the Palestinian people
and and doing Jenny, as they would say, you can't
not supposed to say the whole word and doing Jenny
or the Palestinian people. America would be one of the
only nations that sent the black woman to sit her
ass there and raise her hand against people fighting for

(02:20:29):
the civil rights of Palestinians. And that is the same
thing that's happening with the damn Epstein files. America is
again allowing this to happen and doing nothing, while other
nations around the damn world are like, unfortunately, you can't
be our whoever whoever and you in the files.

Speaker 2 (02:20:52):
Yeah, files is so I don't even know. It's too
dark in them files, y'all every day. I don't even
want to talk about that. We've come to the end
of another episode of TMI. Shout out to Afia Atamenza
and our brother Mark Thompson. Make sure you follow us
on Instagram at TMI Underscore Show and on YouTube TMI
Show PC. I'm not gonna always be right to me.

(02:21:14):
It's not gonna always be wrong, but we will both,
but I mean both always be authentic. R P to
the late great revend Jesse Jackson. You may be gone,
but you'll never be forgotten.

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