Tulsa Never Ended: The Battle for Repair and Justice Guest: Damario Solomon-Simmons, Esq., M.Ed.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, y'all.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Is Laureni Rosa with the latest with Laurena Rosa on
Black Effects and I cannot wait to see you guys
at the fourth Annual Black Effects Podcast Festival. Okay, we're
coming back to Atlanta, Georgia on Saturday, April twenty fifth
at Palman Yard and it's hosted by me alongside DJ
MV and charlottagnea God. We got drink chances of Noriega

(00:22):
and DJAFA. We got to keep a positive sweetye with
My Girl Christopher N.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Haslin.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
We got Reality with the King with My Guide, then
my brother Carlos King, and y'all know he does reality
commentary like nobody can now. We also have Don't Call
Me White Girl, the podcast I Love Mona and Club
five twenty podcasts, along with the Grits and Eggs podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
So this lineup sack Baby, turn up. You're also gonna
want to check out the.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Panels that we have lined up too, Feature and keV
on stage, Pika Sumpter, and John Holpe Bryant just to
name a few. Of course, it's way bigger than podcast.
We're bringing the Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses,
bus the food truck court to keep you fed while
you visit us. Okay, listen, you don't want to miss this.
Tap in and grab your ticket down at Black Effect

(01:08):
dot Com Flash Podcast Festival.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm Tamika D.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Mallory and it's your boy my Son in general.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
We are your host of TMI.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, Motivation.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
And Inspiration, New Name, New Energy.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Season six of the TMI Show is today, and I'm
quite excited about it. I mean, I remember a time
when we just started and we were in the back
of a little room which was almost a closet. You
remember that Janis and we were hot and just trying
our best, trying something new.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
And here we are now six seasons later.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Actually it's been more time because before we had a
podcast deal. Shout out to the Black Effect Podcast Network,
Brother Charlemagne and Sister Dolly. Before we had a deal,
we were doing our show on our own, just saying
that we had to find a forum to talk about
all the things that we encountered. It was street politicians

(02:08):
at the time. I still love that name. I swear
one day I'm going back to that name. I don't
know what I'm gonna do with it, but it was good.
But now we have grown and sort of not morph,
but I would say developed into this place where our
show is actually a home for many people who listen
to podcasts, who watch podcasts.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
I see people all around all the time.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
And sometimes when you are working on something and the
likes on social media are not where you want them
to be because you like, no, this was a good show,
like why aren't people engaged? And you think people aren't
paying attention And then I'm like in I don't know,
you know, Wes bubblehell somewhere and a person welcome to
me and say I saw such and such on your

(02:53):
show this and people actually tune in. They are subscribers,
thank god, have been consistently growing and it's a good
feeling to know that so many people have stayed with
us throughout this process of building and growing and shaping
and reshaping and rethinking. And we have to give a

(03:14):
lot of credit to the team that has stuck with
us through all of the different changes as well and
helped us to get to where we are. So shout
out to LaToya Bonn, And of course we have to
say Kat Trick, who helped to start us out who
believed in us before we had a deal, and out
of that relationship, we met Janice, who is our forever producer,

(03:34):
forever and ever and ever.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
I heard you tell.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Today you go were with you forever, you lived with us.
If we're building our uh yeah, we built in our
studio so she could produce podcasts for the rest of
her life.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
And so it's great to have this show.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
I felt excited, invigorated last season, and I feel even
better sitting here for season six beginning today.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Amen, And six starts today, you know, and it's a
beautiful dayside.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Oh that's good. This is like the real first Yeah,
that was like, dang.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's damned in summer outside, so you know, we we
had to go we all.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Scared to say it's summer. It's eighty five degrees and
we still like.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Damn the something because you know, to be forty degrees to.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Morrow, it's going to be going down thirty eight at
night in a couple of days and it's just stupid.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
So we just enjoying the whether, you know, we enjoy
the new season, like I said, like you said, you know,
we've gone through many different changes, you know, from Street Power.
I love Street politicians too, you know, we have to.
We might have to have like a half and half
street politicians, a k A T in my eyes, Like
I just love street politicians though, because we really are
street politicians, were on the streets, and we do politicians.

(04:44):
We have to I don't know. We got to ask
the people. I think we should ask the people. What
do y'all? What do y'all think? Is it better name?
Because I love TMI because it's Meek and my son's information,
but I also love street politicians. So give us your
thoughts because I've been rasing I ain't gonna lie. I
have in wrestling with this.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
So black wrestling black people, Yeah, wrestling, but I've been wrastling.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
That's what we're saying with.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
This idea of street politicians, because I really loved it,
you know, and at the time a lot of people
was like the politics. People don't like politics. The whole
world is politics.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
I'm telling you. You know what I'm saying, you better
be political.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
If you ain't political, man, then you out here wasting your.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Time speaking of politics.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Let me get into the first topic of season six.
I keep telling janis we need sound effect to make this.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
We need hot o little sound.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, we need sound defects on next episode.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I need you to come here with a good sound.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Like they have on I don't know. I guess one
of the Hot ninety seven shows and you'd be riding
and if doo doo, doom doom, what's that funk? Maybe
Flex got all of them.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Every DJ pretty much has its own sound. I like bombs,
he got bombs?

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Oh yeah, can something bomb? But somebody got doom doom
doom doom. I don't know who it is, but anyway,
I like that. That's always I love when they play that.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Anyhow.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
So the first topic that I have today is really serious.
It's really important. I mean, this is really serious. I
have been down a rabbit hole now, by the way,
I think about a year and a half ago, I
mentioned that I received this crazy bill from easy Pass,
and to be quite honest, at that time, it wasn't
even a deep I had two tickets that was like
seven dollars or something like that each, and they put

(06:29):
they put a fifty dollar penalty on each one. So
I only had a bill that was less than one
hundred and fifty dollars, and I was pissed off. I
came in here like nah, we're not gonna have this,
and people were really in the comments section like nah,
this is serious.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
You gotta know my situation.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
I'm dealing with this, I'm dealing with that, and it
was it was like a big moment for with people
expressing themselves about the damn toes. And so it cast
a state senator by the name of Leroy Kamri, he's
a state senator in Queens to contact me and say, hey, sis,

(07:08):
I saw you know what you were talking about in
terms of the tolls, and I'm working on legislation. And
so he introduced the legislation in Albany and it didn't
really move as it should have. Obviously, the whole damn
everything is going on. You know, what you have to
know for most people or for people who don't know,
is that legislation becomes prioritized. It's like a priority list,

(07:31):
and so if there was something else going on, maybe violence, prevention,
money or you know, or crimes against women or crimes
against another community, those become priority and then they kind
of push other things to the side.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
But one of the reasons why.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
I think that he was not at that time able
to get this particular bill passes because as I do
more research, what I'm finding out is that these states
legislators don't want to they.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Don't want to challenge the state. So this is actually
even worse.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
It's not like he just didn't do his job or
he wasn't serious about it. He was very serious, serious
enough to go and draft legislation to try to move
this thing forward because his constituents and other constituents around
the state of New York were hurting or are hurting,
and so he was out here doing like God's work.

(08:21):
And guess what well I'm now finding out is that
these people, these other state legislators, they do not want
to go up against the state to stop this predatory,
unjust system of fees on toes and all these different
I mean, the assessment, the fees, the registration, revoking the licenses,

(08:43):
people's license being suspended. People got two and three thousand
dollars worth of tickets and they and the that's the
just the ticket costs maybe two or three thousand, and
the fees are fifty thousand dollars, are y'all? I mean,
let let's be for real, let's be for free, like
this is in a state like New York. And by

(09:04):
the way, New Jersey has the same thing. And now
I'm hearing that is happening all over the country. But
in a state like New York where people are freaking
I mean, we're drowning in expenses, and everything is too high.
The rent is too high. They put the congestion pricing.
Everywhere you turn, there's money, money, money, money, money. Folks

(09:27):
are barely surviving, barely surviving, and the damn state is
charging you fifty dollars on a seven dollar ticket, a
seven dollars toll.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
There's no way to make sense to that.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
So I said something about it, and I saw, you know,
obviously people were really engaged. And then, such as life,
the next crisis comes about and we move on. So
now I don't know how this happened to me, Right,
I get a bill that says that I owe nineteen
hundred and so my dollars, and I'm like, huh, Like,

(10:03):
I try not to let things like this happen.

Speaker 5 (10:06):
Now.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
I'm not saying that I'm the best person in terms of,
you know, opening my mail and things of that nature.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
I already know.

Speaker 4 (10:13):
I'm sure there was some piece of mail that came
at some point that got buried in the pile of
other mail.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I'm not fine.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
I admit that, and I agree that I owe what
I owe for the ticket for the toes that I
didn't pay.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
What happened was my credit card somehow got deleted from
the system.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
There are people who are saying right now that it's
it's intentional, But that's a conspiracy theory that maybe through
some type of class action suit at some point we
may be able to find out that there's an actual
dumping of people's credit cards which leaves them vulnerable for
the mail mailing tickets, the mail in toll, which means

(10:54):
you don't have your easy Pass tracking. And now they
send you something in the mail, and again, if you
like me, it's possible that you don't see it. And
after a certain amount of time that's when they put
the fifty dollars on. So I got this bill that
says that I owe two thousand dollars, and I'm like, now,
I know for a fact that damn easy Pass is

(11:16):
in my window and I'm replenishing by the month. So
I called them because oh, first of all, I look
at it and I see there's two columns seven dollars,
eleven dollars, seven nine.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
You know, whatever the amounts are. And then this column
over here just says fifty dollars.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
Now at the bottom, this side that has the actual
toll amounts comes to three hundred and seventy seven dollars.
This column over here with the fifty dollars, which is
the fees, comes to sixteen hundred dollars. If you do
not feel that that is predatory, I don't know what

(11:57):
it is.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
That is unblole. I just I keep what.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
I cannot fathom how a three hundred and seventy seven
dollars bill we might as well the state of New
York and the state of New Jersey and wherever else
this is happening around the country.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
They are acting like racketeer. I thank you for that word.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
Now I'm gonna add that now to how I to
the narrative for how I speak about this, because they
are acting like they the crime boss. They're acting like
the damn mob that when they come for their product, it's.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Like they it's like giving you a loan and then
they putting thousand interests on it.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yet, like what exactly that's what I'm saying, that's not one.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Hundred dollars for you? How do I owe you ten
thousand US?

Speaker 1 (12:43):
That's the TV show.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
That's the TV show, which TV shows is based upon.
Those crime shows are based upon stuff that happened with
the mafia, the mob, the drug dealers. You owe them,
you ain't got their product for X amount of dollars,
and then they come to you and say, now you
owe me ten times plus your watch, and I might

(13:05):
sleep with Tamama. They might as well say that that
I would have to pay somebody sixteen hundred dollars on
a three hundred and seventy seven dollars toll bill. It said,
come on, it's egregious, no way so what I have.
So when I got that bill, that was the Lord's
way of reminding me that I said I was gonna
work on this. He said, He said, you told the

(13:27):
people something, You promised the people you was gonna get
something done, and then you went off over here. And
that's important too, But this here is how you keep
people in poverty and how you mess up. If there's
a man who's on my page right now talking about
how he lost his job because he lost his driving license,
his license, which means he could not drive for the

(13:50):
job that he was working for. Are this is Kathy Hopel,
Mickey Cheryl, she just got there, couple. This is just
very you know, fairly new. So maybe this hasn't come
across her desk yet. And so we're gonna give her
that bo We're gonna put it on her desk because
the problem is that what we're hearing is that the toes,
the way that it works is basically when you cross

(14:12):
from New York to New Jersey. There's some other shit
they got going on with the double something charges that
goes on in there.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
This is absolutely outrageous.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
So Senator Comrie, as I said, to his credit, he
drafted this legislation and worked on it. And then I
love a good politician who says, you know what, I
see this other sister who's also concerned about this issue.
She's a firehouse. I'm going to put this in her

(14:43):
in her camp. She's on it. This is something she
cares about, she's passionate about. Let's get her out there
really working to get this legislation passed. So Monica Martinez,
Senator Monica Martinez, who's also from New York, is working
alongside senators from New Jersey. They have put forth the

(15:04):
end the Toll Trap bill. I love that they calling it.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
It's the track.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
It's the baby, no question, and I ain't talking about
a trap. It's the track for real. So they put
forth the end the Toll Track bill. And we are
now at Until Freedom organizing around this. We're gonna hold
our first virtual town hall so that we can hear
from the people who are the senators who are leading

(15:30):
the bills. We're gonna hear from some lawyers about cases
that they have.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Fought fifty thousand hours.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
I had somebody else saying, Lucinda Cross, she's writing in
the comments that the bill that she owns is enough
for a down payment on the house. This is unacceptable.
We should be demanding, demanding that the state do something
about this. And I'll say this right, I'm gonna get
to my thought of the day very quick today so
that it can all come together because we got a
good guests, a good guest. I'm so proud that we

(15:57):
have this brother up here with us today. But I'm
gonna shift from the toll thing. I want anybody who's
out there listening, whether you have the issue or not,
or you know, somebody tapping with us. Make sure that
you are paying attention when we drop the information about
the virtual town hall, because during that time you will

(16:19):
hear from again the legislators who are carrying the bill.
You will also hear from an attorney or two who's
worked on some of these cases to help people who
are dealing with this predatory, unjust oppression. Okay, it's oppression.
We're living under oppression. When the two columns, the one

(16:39):
with the fees is more than the damn one with
the actual cost of the tolls, it's oppression. It is ridiculous.
So you'll hear from the attorneys, and you will also
hopefully hear from a few people who are damned survivors.
Survivors were calling ourselves survivors. If you made it out,
however you can, because there's different things that people have done.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
They negotiate, they do.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
And in the hotel, got time to be sitting in
your house waiting on hold and having to argue with
somebody or talk to somebody in the phone.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
About the damn told the bill being so high.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
You can't because I guess, because guess what if the
fee was four dollars or five dollars or six dollars,
guess what people would do?

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Pay it and just say, hey, I messed up.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
That's it fifty dollars cause it's And by the way,
there's so many people with the problem.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
There's so many.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
People with the problem that you can't say that the
big fee is making people pay the bill. It's still
an issue. Does anybody work for the people or does
everybody just work for self? So anyway, at this virtual townhall,
you'll have an opportunity to get the charge forward, like
what are we going to do to organize and we

(17:55):
will be in touch with you so that you can
continue to be a part of the movement. And then
we're gonna have an in person meeting where people will
be able to come and hear and allow attorneys to
look at their particular case to see if they will
take them on. We will hear stories live from the
floor of folks who are experiencing this, and.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
We'll make sure that the legislators.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Have people present to take again those live stories and
make it a part of their advocacy as they walk
the halls of their stayhouses. So that's what we're working on.
Tapping with us, Stay.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
With us, to do their work.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Now, let me go quickly to my thought of the
day today, because it ties right in.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
It's the same damn thing, these damn.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
Return policies for all of these stores where now you
can't find a thing when you go.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Men have a.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
Different situation because sometimes I go buy things for men
in the stores and I see that I'll still got
things on the shelves and on the rat It's still
you can still get some nice things for men. But
as it relates to women, we hardly can find anything
at the store.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
They have literally reduced shopping for.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
Us and narrowed it to pretty much online primarily. You
would agree with that, right, Janie. It's primarily online. So
if you want anything you gotta you can't just go
pick up the things that you want. You go into
these major stores, the Bloomingdale's, the Sacks, the nord Strums,
the even Mema Marcus. Nema Marcus has five things on

(19:36):
the on the on the racks. It's not even like
you going into Nema Marcus, which is this big, fancy
store and you think that you're just gonna have just
you know, lots and lots and lots of items. They
might they have the smallest inventory. To me, I might
be wrong, but that's what I see when I go
to a Nema Marcus, and then the stores don't really

(19:56):
have sizes, so then that's the whole other thing.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
So you end up on line.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Looking at these these big websites and ordering different items,
especially if you want to try to find something that's
within a reasonable cost, because that's a whole different thing.
Then when it comes time to return the stuff, the
policies are absolutely ridiculous short timeframes. To be able to

(20:21):
turn stuff in, you gotta email somebody who God knows
where they are so that they can decide whether they
want you to return the product. They asking you all
these damn questions. You got to take all these pictures
and stuff to send it.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Back to them.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
You are actually doing extra work to buy things, just
spending your money.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
We are spending our money as consumers.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
And they're putting all this extra work that you got
to pay for the shipping to return the items. They've
giving you seven days sometimes to be able to get
the product. So god damn if you're traveling when it comes,
if you don't make it back in time to review
the thing, to look at the item, to try it on,

(21:08):
you can't send it back. Then other places maybe they
have fourteen days. Then they'll tell you, well, we're gonna
take x y z percent out of it cuz you know,
you know, or.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
You could keep it, and then we do this.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
I mean, the list of things is so expensive that
I sound like an idiot trying to explain it to you.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
It's ridiculous these policies.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
And shout out to Revolve because I appreciate that Revolve
allows you to get a product, to look at it,
to try it on, whatever, and they give you an
ample amount of time to send it back. But all
these other people, these little stores, the emailing to ask
for permission like you a damn child with your money
to return items.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
It is ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
And my thought of the day today is that between
the tolls in the Tri State area and around the country,
between the return policies for all of these stores, we
have allowed these companies and governments and others to just
determine for us how we're gonna spend our money. They

(22:12):
get to control our money. We spend with them, and
we get disrespected. They don't accommodate you. God forbid you
a day late. Or two days late trying to return
something because you have a situation. They are literally holding
us by the neck around the money that we're spending
to make them who they are.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
We have to start demanding that.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
Things are done with a level of customer service and
respect for the person spending their money that these folks
will deserve. For us to make their companies million dollar,
billion dollar companies, how.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Many people you think gonna do that? And that's what
the issue is. They know they've studied the trend right,
they study the trends, and they know that there are
a lot less women going to the stores. Women are
ordering online. Then when we go in the store, it's
still a full session because most men does not ordering
on We might order here and there's some shoes here,
and there's some boots or something like that, but for
the most part, I need to go to the store

(23:10):
and put on myself. So in this technology era where
AI and everything is replacing, women have to say, yo,
we want to get more. We want to get back
to being personal, we want to get back to going
to the store. We need these stores to have the
stuff on the shelf because the way that you're going
about it, it limits the way that that we're able to
even engage. We getting closed we don't want, then we

(23:31):
got a process about getting it back. Then we got
to go through all of this all over again, and
then some.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
Of the times and you need to dress tonight.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, So that's what I'm saying, ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
So that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
It is ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
But I think when you ask a question, how many
of us are going to do something what happens in life?
And as far as I know as being a person
who you know, organizes, somebody got to be the one
to say it so other people will go mean for real.
And then but then people want to know, Okay, what
should we do? What's the next step? And I'm just

(24:07):
saying that since I'm walking down New York and New
Jersey's ass, I'm gonna come on over here too and
figure out what kind of lawsuits can be filed?

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Like what can we do to address this? Now?

Speaker 4 (24:22):
If I'm being crumple, he'll tell me if I because
you know, I call Ben at one o'clock in the
morning and say Ben, you home, Ben, listen, love, tell Jenney,
don't be mad.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I'm calling Ben.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
How we suit these people about X y Z thing
and Ben be like, well, that's a private business.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
To me.

Speaker 5 (24:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
If there's a I'd be like, well, come on, Ben,
this gotta be away, gotta be away, and then he'll.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Call me back three days later.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
I say, you know, I was thinking about da da
da da da thing, you know, and maybe you could
get some people together to do so and so, so
what I'm gonna do is push it out there to
all the attorneys people who are listening right now. Some
of them just, you know, you're just brilliant. Think about it.
What can we do to say? And maybe it's not

(25:07):
every business, but maybe it's just looking at a few
of the worst actors, because I know a few I
ain't gonna put their name out there today, but I
know a few of the worst actors.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Just just say we're not gonna shock with you no more.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
It's a simple thing.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
You gotta I think. I think I'm telling you. As
we move towards technology and AI you, we lose quality,
we lose interaction, we lose the humanness of everything. You know,
so and you what you're describing is something that's human.
And when we come from an era where we had
human interaction. These kids don't go outside nothing. They want

(25:42):
to be online all day. They don't even know the
process of going to the stores and trying on things
and all of the engagement with different people. You meet people,
you learn different things, like we are being so segregated
and just divided because what it does is it takes
away the emotion she knew, and the empathy and the
connection with other people, and they able.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
To control you the yeah, and also they hide the terms.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
The policy turns and so deep that you don't even really.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Know, like my bills be coming before. They don't even
send you bills in the mail no more.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yes, they do you acting.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
I've been checking my mailbox every day. They stopped sitting
in my corn edison, but they stop sitting it. I've
been looking for all day because I like, I like
the paper. But then when I go on my email,
the thing is then I'm like, well, where's the paper
at I got this for four street months, where's the paper?
The paper?

Speaker 4 (26:34):
Sometimes I understand that certain things m hm. I understand
that certain things we're probably never going to go back to.
But the least we can do is force these people
to have a standard for how they deal with us
about our money, Like, it's just completely crazy to me
that I'm out of town if I order a shirt

(26:55):
or whatever. And and by the way, they have a
policy that they're going to you between seven to ten
days or when it becomes available, and then it gives
to my house. And I got to go out of
town and I'm not back for six or seven days.
How the hell you're gonna tell me that because I
didn't see it and do all the things to return
it in that timeframe. That's ridiculous. That and that's how

(27:19):
they're keeping your money. All this stuff is predatory. And
to your point, what people are going to do about
it is they need to know. They need to know
there are other people that see it and understand it,
and that we're not powerless. We are the holder of
the dollar, and with the dollars being limited because it's
shrinking the amount of money that's out here moving around,
we should all be a lot smarter about how we're

(27:41):
spending and who we're spending it with. So that's what
I have to say. And we're about to have a
wonderful guest that is coming up joining us right now,
so stick with us. Well, we're back for a season
six of the t on My Show, and we appreciate
everyone who is joining us today because, in true OO
TMI fashion, we're starting with a friend, our friend.

Speaker 5 (28:05):
Yes, come on, come.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
On, it is attorney to Mario Solomon Simmons. But he's
more than a friend. You are our brother, and we
are so happy to have you with us today. You've
been on the show before, but this is in perpose, yes,
a whole new thing. You've got your Tulsa hat on today.
We're gonna talk about all of that. But let me

(28:29):
just pop my paper out so I can put some
respect on your name. With all that you are doing
and have done, I'm gonna call you do Mario, if
that's all right, So do Mario, Reverend Simmons. It's the
last time I'm saying Reverend Simmons. It's my brother. But anyway,
De Mario is a nationally recognized racial justice attorney and
civil rights strategist, the founder and president of Justice for Greenwood,

(28:53):
an attorney for the last for the last living survivors
of the nineteen twenty one Tulsa Ray massacred but now
it is one survivor.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, one survivor left. We'll talk about that, the.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Leading voice and the fight for Greenwood reparations and descend
to justice. And also also and there's a whole bunch
of other stuff that it says here about you. But
I think the thing that is so important because I
know how hard it is. Both of us know my
son has three books, and we know how hard it
is to do the work of writing the story down

(29:28):
and telling your truth, and not your truth, but the truth.
And so you are author of redeem a nation, the
century long battle to restore the soul of America. We
are so grateful to have our brother, Attorney de Mario
Solomon Simmons with us today.

Speaker 5 (29:45):
Man, psit to be here. Yes, grateful, it's amazing. We've
been trying to get me in studio for some time.
Made it so, Mama, we made it.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
It's right when you're supposed to be here. And now
that you have this book, which I see that Stevenson
has written a blurb, is he inside also?

Speaker 5 (30:04):
I mean you mean some quotes from here?

Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, oh, inside the book? I mean who else?

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Right, if we're trying to tell this type of story
about redeeming the soul of this nation, but a Brian
Stevenson to go to to partner with.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
So I want to hear all about all the things.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
But before we start all of that, as I said,
you got that good tolta hat on, and the people
want to know all.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
About where you come from.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
Who are you the man, not the strategist, not of
the attorney, all of that, But you have a beautiful
wife and a family, and we want to know more
about that.

Speaker 5 (30:40):
De Mario, Well, I'm to Mario Solomon Simmons. I'm from
North Tulsa, Oklahoma and black Black community, which is the
successor to the Greenwood community. Listen, I'm from a single
parent house or my mother Kathy Brown Banks. Shout out
to my mom. She has cerebral palsy. I grew up
with her and my little brother, single mother on SSI,

(31:00):
and so you know, I'm somebody that struggled with speech impediment.
I had issues in school, almost died a couple of
times growing up with asthma. Spent a lot of time
at ICUs and hospitals. My teeth was all jacked up.
For my mother, I don't know how she got me
bracest through the state. So for my grandparents, Mama and
Daddy Brown. You know, I probably wouldn't be sitting here

(31:20):
with you today. Graduated high school to the bottom of
my high school class, two thirty two out of two fifty,
made a sea in Driver's Dead. That's because the coaches
like me, you know, got myself into some trouble, got arrested.
You know, I grew up. I graduate high school ninteen
ninety four, So I'm growing up right in the middle
of the gang in crack academic as it hits Tulsa,
and I'm going through that change in my life.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
And my crack was in Tulsa.

Speaker 5 (31:43):
I'm serious, Crack was everywhere unfortunately. I mean, you know,
you've seen snowfalls, Snowflake and when they go over to
Arkansas whatnot. That stuff is real. They come into these
communities and people didn't really know what was going on,
and so, you know, just surviving through all of that
up and wanting to be just like the typical black kid.

(32:04):
You know, I'm going to the NFL. I want to
hang out on the streets, you know, I'm playing football.
I was a pretty good football player, but I tore
my a cl and I got arrested, and my grades
were bad and had a very bad attitude. So I
went to my I lost all my major college scholarships
big schools. Go to a small school in Oklahoma. Get
disgruntled with that. I dropped out of school, moved back home,

(32:27):
got disgruntled again, moved to Dallas, Texas. Talked to my wife, Mia,
who's a all white my girlfriend at the time, talked
to her to dropping out of her college and moving
to Dallas with me. And was down there and everything
that could have gone wrong went wrong. Wow, wrecked our car.
You know, the job was supposed to have didn come
through living in these wack apartments, roaches, and it's like

(32:48):
that that was the thing that just changed the life.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
The roaches.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
Look, I grew up income, I had grown and weird.
And from that moment, you know, I call that my
semester in life, and I really wish everybody could have
a semester see what real life is like, especially as
a black man. You were out there without an education,

(33:12):
without any real options. You know, I had options, but
I was acting like I didn't have all t And
I'm making eight nine dollars an hour. I'm hustling trying
to figure it out. It's like, man, it's a better
life for me. Came back home, went to Tulsa Community College,
finished there. They went to ou University of Oklahoma and
fulfilled my dream to play football at University of Oklahoma. Walked on,
earned a scholarship, earned letters. That's where my old ring

(33:33):
kids right here. And then at that point, after the
next seven years, I got my undergraduate degree in African
ath American studies, my master's degree in higher education, and
my law degree. And in between that spent time in
West Africa doing postgraduate studies and African studies, and then
over in Oxford they braced Noose College study in law
and did that in seven years. Came back to tuls

(33:54):
in tween twenty four, started my law practice and just
been grinding ever since.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
You got your shit together.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, so, you know, we met you in side Tulsa
and we went there and I was watching you give
an argument for the survivors of the trust and I
actually i've actually watched you right, and it was just amazing.
It was one of the best. Not for real, like
you know, I've been around. I had some little touches
with the law. I owe some attorneys, and I heard

(34:24):
some litigation, you know, but it was like excellent litigation,
and so what really made you want to take that path?

Speaker 5 (34:31):
Yeah, that great question. Listen. Like I said, I grew
up in North Tulsa, in Greenwood. I went to middle
school on Greenwood Avenue, Carbon Middle School. I went to
Booker T. Washington High School, which is the crown jewel
of Greenwood. I never heard about the massacre. I knew
nothing about my history as a as a descendant. I'm
not a as someone who comes from the Greenwood community.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Right.

Speaker 5 (34:50):
Wow, when I went to OU, I mean followed nineteen
ninety seven. I'm sitting in class my professor. I can
see him today. Man, he's deceased. Now shout out to
doctor Keper new Rock Cam. This guy's about six foot
five by three hundred and thirty pounds. He had long
locks and a shave mohawk type haircut, so any other
James Errol Jones boys. So there's a very intimidated and

(35:11):
I'm sitting in the back. I'm chilling on my athlete.
I'm just trying to chill. And he started talking about Tulsa.
Of course, at the time, they called the Tulsa Race riot.
And he's talking about Tulsa and how we were the
richest most organized community in the history of Blackpool.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
And I'm like, that's not no at the place I know,
I don't know, no way.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
And I was like, man, should I say something? And
I was like, you know whatever, raised my hands like
I'm from Tulsa. That's not true. I mean, he's just
he's just he's just obliterated. And I was so embarrassed.
I could not believe. And I was a history made
my social degrees in history. Wow, I could not believe it.
So that day it clicked to me that my life's

(35:48):
purpose was to make sure that people knew about my
community and that we get the justice and reparations that
we that was deserved at the time. And so from
nineteen nine s that's I'm a thirty years as an undergraduate,
I just do law, clerk, lawyer. I've been on this
journey trying to get justice and reparations.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Well, man, the work that has gone into this process
and still no real justice.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
I mean filled to now.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
I mean you see little cracks in the ceiling, if
you will, we see the.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Light, but no full justice.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Talk about the process and how hard it has been
to stick with having every door you kick open, say
find a way to slam it shut again, while representing
actual people who were there, who were physically impacted by
the massacre, and you have to go to them to
tell them that the door has been slammed again.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Right right, right, man? You know it's I always talk
about the work that we do, the civil rights is
racial justice work. You're gonna lose so much more than
you win. And you got to accept that and understand
that we're going to be up against the odds, obstacles
and opposition every day. So you know, you have to
be built for this word. So, by the grace of God,
I'm built to absorb a lot of that damage. But

(37:10):
it hurts. And you know, many times I'm like, man,
I can be doing something this way easier, and I
could be making way more money right with my skills set.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Just like people be saying this and that, and I'd
be like, man, the cases that fight with sue rights,
I don't make the way money.

Speaker 5 (37:28):
Now people see this, people are quit. You guys understand
that people are quate TV and being on the radio
and the news with money. That's not it. And really,
when you're a civil rights champion or a lawyer using the
TV and media as a tool. It's you know, it's
not like, Okay, I want to see myself. I need

(37:49):
everything to help me in public opinion. It's one of
those things. But to be working with folks you mentioned,
you know, so since ninety seven. First of all, once
I learned about the massacre, I realized so many people
I knew growing up.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Wor wow? What is what? What makes you? What qualifies
you as a survivor.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
So the way we define it at Justice for Greenwood
is you had either you lived either you or your
relative lived in Greenwood, our own property in Greenwood, or
in Greenwood at the time of the massacre or the next.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
Ye oh, six months after, so you had to live
there for six more months after or anytime.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
Anytime, Yeah, if you had yeah, that's six months. Because
you're dealing with complete you know, we're going to talk
about the you know, if you look at the damage here,
you're talking about if you there this this picture is
a couple weeks after, so the damage was there. So
that's how we just find if someone as an actual survivor,
right right, And so once I realized I'm like, man,
there's so many people. Then as a as a lawyer.

(38:50):
So in ninety in two thousand and one, I got
real fortunate to get connected with two thousand and two,
I got connected with Professor Charles Ogletree and.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I love love of that's something there, you.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
Know, I can't believe he's gone and got no Professor
Charles ogle Street great mentor of mine and Johnny Cochran,
and they had an organization called the Reparations Court Nating Committee,
that's right. And so in the early two thousands they
came in and they bought in some of the greatest black,
greatest black lawyers, mostly black lawyers from all around the nation,
Willie Gary, Dennis Suite, Michelle Roberts. I mean, just amazing

(39:24):
group to try to do a litigation in federal court.
And I got connected with them. Was a clerk, a
law clerk, and then I so I got to travel.
So at that time I got to really get involved
with a lot of more survivors that I didn't know about.
And we all believed, the whole community believed, because remember
the massacre was hidden for over seventy five years, also

(39:45):
denied it happened. Once it became a lot more known,
and we had this all star team of attorneys. It's
like a snow way. We can't get justice. Everybody thought,
once people heard the story, we would get justice, and
you got you got Professor Charles O. Tree right, And
we didn't get justice. And then they went to the
Supreme Court and the Supreme Court kicked the case out

(40:07):
without comment. Now at the time, I didn't know that
that's just what they that's what it said. I thought
it was like, it was terrible they kicked the case out.
But it me and my mom, like you could at
least comment it. But you know, that's just what they
say without comment. And we were so devastated at that time.
But I thought I was lower. I thought I thought
that was the lowest point. But when you sitting there
and you seeing daily literally these people die and they're hoping.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
For justice, and then you can't get it to them,
can't get.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
It to him fast and you can't get it to
him fast enough. And then we get to the point
where we only have three living survivors. And you guys
got to meet too of us. You got to meet
mother Fletcher and mother Randall. And you know, over the
last six years, I spent so much time with and
also uncle Red. He was van Ellis. They both you know,
they both deceased, and it's it's it's it's an emotional deal.

(40:56):
I spent so much time with him, going back and
forth to DC, going back and forth to Oklahoma City,
going back and forth to court hearings, and knowing that
these folks are over one hundred years old, most.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Physically shouldn't even be traveling around trying to be out.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
That's it. On the porch, that's it.

Speaker 5 (41:14):
And they are here, you know, showing up. I remember
our first court hearing we had in September of twenty
twenty one, and it lasted like six and a half hour,
which a long time for emotion to dismiss you. And
we took a break and we had all three of
the survivors there and I asked them if they want
to you know, they tired, they want to leave, And
they said, well, how much long do you think it's

(41:35):
gonna be? I really don't know. And then they said, well,
if you're going to be here, we got these guys
were one hundred and seven hundred and eight hundred and one.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
He could have just got out of there.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Yeah, you were like their grandson who they believed could
bring them justice. And even if when they passed and
it wasn't exactly, but they still know you were commit this.

Speaker 5 (42:01):
So to that question, and I talked about this in
the book. There was a time when we had our
case dismissed in July twenty three at the district court.
Look that's what y'all came down the previous year, suf
frequent year. And I was I was taking my wife Mia,
We're going to dinner and I pull up parking the
car and I get a text message from this local

(42:22):
journalist and he says, you've cared a comment on your
case been dismissed. And I'm like, I looked. I pulled
up the dock at case dismissed. I sat in the car.
I was just I was just devastating. I sat in
the car about fifteen minutes me and said, well, let's
just let's go home. Go home. She goes inside of
the open up garage. She goes there and says, just
give me a moment. I sat in the car for

(42:44):
like thirty minutes and then I was literally just like
deject and then it just hit me. I said, oh damn.
I got a call of survivors, because I don't want
them to find out from the news, right right, So
I call a SAVIARBS called their caretakers, get him on
the fore and I tell them what's happening. And I'm
in tears. I'm trying to keep it together. I'm trying

(43:04):
to be a prof flor, but I'm feeling like I
have just failed these people. And Uncle Red man, he said,
can we appeal? And it was like I got a
Jodah energy. He got n we can appeal.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
I said.

Speaker 5 (43:23):
It was just like, you know, like Superman, but the
Krypto Niite they took the cryptoin. I was like, oh, yeah,
we can appeal. And it was just like that's that's
what they gave me. So to your enagy, they they
they knew that we were fighting so hard on they
had and they appreciate. Every time I saw un Cared,
who passed away at one hundred and three on October tenth,

(43:43):
twenty twenty three, he would always grab my hands, said,
my man, my man, my man, I've never had this
before in my life. Every time I saw him. And
there was a very famous picture of Uncle Red when
we went took them to Congress in May May nineteen
twenty twenty one. It was testifying. He's reading and he says,
we're not just black and white pictures. We're flesh and blood.

(44:05):
We are real people, and we're still here and we're
still looking for justice. So when he, you know, to
see him pass and I talk about this in the book.
You know, I had finally taken a little time off,
which was three days, and I went fishing and I
didn't have my phone on. I had my director of
security with me, and we get a phone call back
to back to back from one of the family members

(44:27):
and I'm like, man, keep calling him back and see
what's going on and call him. He's like, I only
want to talk to tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
That's every time.

Speaker 5 (44:37):
I know.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Sa Folks is like, who is this? Tell to call me?

Speaker 5 (44:44):
So I called him and I actually thought it was
the grandson of Mother Fletcher. And I thought it was
Mother Fletcher because she was one hundred and nine at
the time. Jeez, I'm thinking, okay, but it was Uncle
Red and it was just like so devastating when he
passed away. And then you of course, Mother Fletcher passed
away this past November at one hundred and eleven years old,
and I was with her in her hospital bed and

(45:04):
we got a little video, and I mean literally she's
on her deathbed, but her mom was that our body
was shut and she was still wanting, wanting justice. She
was freezing cold with the barber shutting down, and she
was there just like trying to rumble. Was like, man, the.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Spirit of this la dang worrior of spirit, the spirited
this lady. So give us a little context of the book.
What made you want to write this book?

Speaker 5 (45:32):
Great question. A couple of things. Number one one thing
I said. I grew up low income. I grew up
as a hardhead. I grew up getting all the type
of stuff I don't want to. But I grew up
as a reader. And my mother, I don't know how she.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
They didn't play that. They said you had to read
a book.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
Well, and she bought me this World of Cyclopedia set. Yeah,
and so I know for people today, yeah, classic, that
was the.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
Biggest Yeah one you borrowed the neighbor borrow to do
a project.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
They want it back.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a major expense. And so I read
those and I read them, I mean all the time.
You know, it's not like today. Listen, she might have
still been paying it before she paid. This is a
serious deal, right. So I remember reading those encyclopedias over

(46:26):
and over and over, and I always saw myself like,
I want to be I want to be one of
these people, right that's doing something great in history and
particularly fighting for black people. So then you know understanding
also that for eighty I didn't want a kid ever
anywhere in the world, not just in Tulsa. They say
they don't know about the Tulsa race math, they don't
know about green they don't know about I didn't know that.

(46:50):
They don't know the greatness of our people. They don't
understand what built Greenwood, you know, because as Greenwood was
just as much a physical location as it was a
state of mind. And understanding what that state of mind
that black people had at the time, how do we
How the hell did people come out of one generation
of enslavement and be able to build the most prosperous,
most organized, the greatest black community in the history of

(47:13):
this nation. How were they able to do that? Get
bond from the sky? Three thousand people disappeared, eight thousand
people homeless, fifteen hundred and fifty homes in businesses destroyed,
billions of dollars in property and income and lives lost
wiped away, sustain that be able to kind of rebuild

(47:33):
the community again and then go through urban renewal. So
the massacre was was physical violence. Urban renewal. It is
policy violence. Just like these toads you're talking about. Policy
still violent. It's still violence, right, no question. So I
always I wanted to make sure that people knew the story.

(47:54):
And it's not just a story. It's not just history,
it's not just the legal battle. But it's also a blueprint.
It's a blueprint how we can recreate greenwoods all around
this nation, from Seattle to Brooklyn to Denver to la
wherever you are. If you have this book, it's going
to give you a blueprint to understand what these black
people are able to do and what we can do today.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
I mean it's heavy, you know, and and to know
that there are other communities that have faced similar challenges.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
I think about Rosewood right in Borida.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
And how you know, still a fight exists for our
what is it for our human rights?

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Right?

Speaker 4 (48:34):
Like basic human rights that we deserve reparations for the
harm that has been caused to our community that is
documented well yes, well documents and here you are again.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Some people would call you insane that you.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
Would take time away from your life, your family and
all the things to sit and write a book.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Because writing a book, this was a.

Speaker 5 (49:00):
Big old book.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
This my book is like what happened?

Speaker 4 (49:05):
Is?

Speaker 1 (49:06):
This is?

Speaker 5 (49:07):
I got over three hundred footnotes here wowes here.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
This this is real word.

Speaker 5 (49:13):
But it's an easy read though, But it's just well researched.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah, no, I mean, listen, it's a good read. That's
the main thing.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
But to do that, to try to document the history
again as if the story needs to keep being told,
you have to because they will erase it if possible,
So we have to keep telling the story over and
over again. Tell me what it's been like for your family,
on for you, for Mia being there as your wife,

(49:42):
who she looks she picked a good one.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
It might have been hard at the beginning, but living
all right?

Speaker 5 (49:52):
Shout to my wife, Mia Flippings.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (49:54):
What has that been like to have the support of
your family to say, keep going and keep doing all
these insane things, showing up the court day after day
and doing all the things that you do.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
Man, great question. I could not do without my family
and with MIA's support, and I take them through a lot.
You know, I talk about this in the book, and
a lot of people don't know. You know, I had
what they call a heart event as I was getting
ready for that Supreme Court hearing that you came down
because I had never done that before.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
I'd never been to one before.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
That was real serious shit with the black thing and
the justices step behind the curtain.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
That was serious.

Speaker 5 (50:33):
So you know, I've been practicing law over twenty years,
twenty years that at that point, I've done a lot
of cases, done a lot of trials, all that type
I've done, but I had never done any appellet work,
had never been to the Supreme Court. And when our
team this is just a great example talking about me
a support and what it takes to the family. When
our team, when we when we got the opportunity, we
had to fight to get the appeal. Then we had

(50:54):
to fight for them to run us a hearing. And
I was thinking, Okay, great, I've done it. I've hired
a pell attorney. They can argue the case. We'll just
split it up with something. And they were like, no,
you just need one person. Because you remember the other
side argued three or four people, They're like, not even
you have one person. I was like, they said, tomorrow
needs to be you. Nobody is no, nobody knows this
case and this issue better than anyone. But I'm like,

(51:15):
I've never been in a pellet turn. So I just
went into like this. I had six weeks. So what
you saw was after I only had six.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
It was excellent.

Speaker 5 (51:22):
Thank you so good, thank you. I don't almost good.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
I know all the stuff we do is almost killing yourself.

Speaker 5 (51:31):
No, no, that's right. Because I was I was grinding
and getting prepared and Mia was trying to tell me,
you know, you need to relax, you need the rest,
and I'm just like, I'm doing like literally eighteen twenty
hours a day.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
And then I wasn't feeling good and I was just
kind of wheezing a little bit, and I said, well,
maybe I'm just some allergies, maybe my asthma. I had
an asthm attacking a long time. We go to the
hospital and I tell them I'm having a little wheeze
and short of breath or whatever, and they come out
with a wheelchair and I'm like, yo, I just I
just need a halo something. What was all this? They're like, nah,
we don't play, We're gonna go check your Heart's like, man,
you got nothing wrong with my heart? What you're talking about?

(52:04):
And me, it was like you better getting that that
look shen't even said she just gave me that look
like exactly. I get in there, they do the EKG
that come in. I'm just sitting there and he was like, yeah,
we're doing just some more tests. You had a heart event.
I was like a heart event, Like, well, we think
you may have a small heart attack. I'm like what.

(52:24):
So I had to go through all this procedures and
get a CT scan and with dye and all this stuff.
And you know, that was a big lesson for it
because I could have died, I could have left everything,
and I had to make the choice. I want to
be here for my family, I want to be here
for my community, but also, and I know you as,

(52:47):
I need to be here for myself. Yes, right. And
so I talk about this towards the end of the
book that I have intentionally started to do a little
better taking care of myself, getting rest because thinking about, man,
I'm about to die, I'm about to leaving my wife,
my mother. I take care of my mother. I'm a
mother's caretaker, you know. I mean she still lives by herself,

(53:08):
but I take care of Yeah, you know, she needs
me here, My wife needs me here, My nieces and
nephew need me here. And so as much as I'm
committed to this work, this is my life's passion, I
got to be committed to my life. And that is
something that I learned through this process.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Good stuff.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
I was just gonna say, talk about the book more
highs and lows. What was the good parts, the bad parts? Hard?

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Was it to write?

Speaker 4 (53:35):
Hard?

Speaker 5 (53:36):
Hard?

Speaker 4 (53:37):
Hard?

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Yeah? Hard? You know, and you know you've written two
her books, you got three books. I mean, this took
me over four years, over four years to get this
book in, you know, the first version of it. On
my first manuscript, the book, my contract called for eighty
five to nine five thousand words. I submitted like almost

(54:00):
two hundred thousand words. You know, I had so much
I wanted to say. But at the same time, as
you all know, when you're writing a book, you're trying
to put people on the scene. You try. It's a
different type of writing than I came to as a lawyer, right,
And so that was that was I want to I'm
so trained to everything I say. I want to be
able to just prove the site and prove it to

(54:20):
you because it's so crucial. But it's like, ah, too much,
too much. So that was very very difficult, you know,
even thinking about you thinking about this, you know, I
don't know if people can actually see the book cover
the cover Folko. Yeah, So it's like going through the
photos and you know, I've been working on this stuff
for almost thirty years. I've seen a lot of the photos.
But as I was thinking about photos for the book,

(54:43):
I actually found and came across some photos I had
never seen before, which was amazing. So like like and
seeing some of the photos am so devastating. Because even
the photo on this book when you see the lady
here in white and I'm thinking, I had never seen
this photo before, and I was thinking, man, what is
this lady thinking? Right?

Speaker 3 (55:03):
This?

Speaker 5 (55:03):
Is this in front of her home? Is this her business?
Is she looking for her father or husband, her son?
Does she know where what's going to happen next? And
then you look at the two white men that's just
casually sit standing in the middle of the street. We're
done so it's like a Michael Cosum of what we're
dealing with for our lives. Right, We're like fighting for
our lives, and the white society is just like going home,

(55:25):
just just kicking it. I mean, and I even like
with this No Kings deal, just like if you're really
talking about protestings and stuff like that, that ain't just
on Saturday morning you dress up as John Travolta or
put on some costume, like you know, this is really
impactful and you got to be willing to take the
hits I got off.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
No, no, no, And if you just put a pin
in that, I think that an overwhelming majority of people
out there at the No Kings protests really want to
see it unchange.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
But of course there is a focus. Media is going
to focus on a.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Few people are not a few, a lot of people
who are not really there for the right reasons.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
That's why you see where I'd be sitting now. So
we did that already.

Speaker 5 (56:09):
Yeah, it's like these white guys there. Her whole world
is devastated forever probably, you know, just devastated.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
Sod was already problems before we even get here, and
now there's physical devastation. As you said already had been
mine warfare. You know, it's just anyway, go ahead, no.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
No, no good point. And so some of the other
things I learned through the process. You know, I'm thinking,
I've been looking at this for a long time, and
you learn things like, man, I learned about a man
who was running for his life and he dressed up
as a woman he could because they were killing all
the just killing all They killed all black women too,
but they was definitely killing, trying to killed all as
many black men as they could. He dressed up as

(56:52):
a woman, and he gets into it this white church
where they had women and they were kind of protecting them.
He was there for two whole days, not eating, not
saying anything anybody because he didn't want to be outed
that he was a man. Because he was dressed up
as a woman to protect his life. I had never
saw that before, and so things like that was so difficult.
It's like it's like I'm learning about it the first time,

(57:12):
and I'm thinking, man, it's could be somebody that I know,
they're relative, I know they're descendant, somebody that maybe live
next door to some of my relatives.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
So what do you want people to get from this book, like,
you know, you're telling this story, Like, what do you
want the reader to feel at the end of this book.

Speaker 5 (57:31):
Yeah, I want people to feel a couple of things.
Number One, it's a lot of history in this book,
but it's not a history. It's a lot of legal
strategy and a legal battle, but it's not a legal book.
I want people when they get to the end of
this book really understand a blueprint how to move forward,
particularly in Black communities. You know, my last chapter is
called Think Greenwood, and it's the five Think Greenwood principles

(57:53):
that created the Greenwood community, and it's community love. Number
two was freedom mind. State is ownership, and we're not
just talking about ownership of properties. We're talking about ownership
of our mentality, ownership of our culture. Number four it's
wealth circulation. And again we're not just talking about money transferring.
We're talking about wisdom transferring, circulating our health, how we

(58:14):
live with each other. Number five will for resilience, and
so I want people to see that understand that this
is what created the greatest community in Black America's history
at the time, and we can recreate that. And I
want people to understand that Greenword was created in the Deer.
In the Deer period where black folks were under attack, lunchings, massacres,
and everything was happening, that's the same period we live

(58:36):
in today. I call it maga delusion, meaning that Maga
delusion is dealing with the same racism and violence of
than the Deer, But we're also dealing with the open
corruption and just the disdain for any semblance of truth.
You know, water's not wet, the sun is not hot,
guy's not blue.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
That's the world we.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Live in, the misinformation. So we have to understand and
take the lessons that we learned from Greenwood and translate
them today. And the last thing I hope people understand
is that and I know this is a big discussion
right now about like financial literacy and budgeting and hustle harder,
That's not what built green It was community love, it

(59:20):
was communal living. It was not a scenario where we
have to think we're going to continue to outpace the system.
That doesn't mean we don't have to understand how the
system works. We absolutely should, but we need to understand
that we are we are social people, we are communal,
communal people, and that's how we build ourselves up not
trying to be overly individualistic. We're trying to be overly

(59:41):
about the.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Bag that is.

Speaker 5 (59:43):
That is not who we are, and that's not how
we build our communities. And when you look at Greenwood,
like you said, Rosewood, Wilmington, North Carolina, all over the place,
these massacres happen. The only thing make Greenwood unique is
the side scope and scale of the destruction. How many people,
not of people, realize that Greenwo is bigger than Harlem
at this heyday, right, And so I want people to
really understand that story, understand the history, understand the legality.

(01:00:07):
But then they say, and I can use this book
and the Blue Princess in here, and I can take
it to my community and we can replicate the successes
they've had in Toss over the last five.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
I guys, I have so many questions. I think. The
first thing what I want to know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
One thing I want to know is what would you
say if you knew of a community that was trying
to build the new Greenwood, the new roads, would the
new whatever?

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
What would you say?

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Is one thing they need to be thinking about in
terms of how to protect it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
So that's one thing I want to know what would
they do there? And then well let's just answer that first.

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
That's such a great question, such a great question because
we know that the violence comes when we were successful,
and anytime we're successful, violence comes. Anytime we have something,
violence comes. And you know, we don't have access to
tanks and and fighter jets and things of that nature.
You know, So what the main thing we can do
to protect ourselves now is being community, being community with them.

(01:01:07):
That's about the number one principle is community love. I
say that because you know Dick Roland, who was about
to be lynched, a nineteen year olds two shine boy.
That's what started the massacre. The community love was so
strong that the richest most powerful man black man in
Tulsa and in the nation, some of them in the
nation came together to protect Dick Roland's life and they
protected all this destruction. Dick Roland's life was protected. And

(01:01:32):
so while the community ended up, you know, suffering a lot,
the community came together with such loss happening. And that's
what we have to do.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
That's I think, that's what I mean to cut you off,
but that's what they say that we've lost, right, it's
a in as we gain certain civil rights freedoms, we've
lost the sense of community and everybody is in this
space of self and I think we really have to
get back to that sense of community, because that's what
drove us through slavery, drove us through everything. There was
this sense of family or everything was cultural. We were united.

(01:02:03):
And now you hear conversations with the most successful people,
you know, with people just got a little bit of successful. Well,
that ain't for me, and I'm not that we not
a monolifting And I hate hearing I mean too, like,
what is that you're right? Like?

Speaker 6 (01:02:16):
Right do we?

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Why do we the only people that say I don't
I don't hear nobody else saying not anlifting? Why do
we have to make sure that people know that we're
not all on the same page?

Speaker 6 (01:02:27):
No, Like, what is what is the benefit of It's
no real benefiting, you know, in a in a in
a society, we have coalitions and groups and power of blocks,
of voting blocks.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
You want to be on the same page as much
as you can be. I totally agree with that. And
we we have lost a lot, but we can get
back to it if we understand, Like again, looking at
the case study. That's why this book is a case study.
How do we get back to that, How do we
make sure we are working together, loving on each other
half community love, and not internalizing some of the neir

(01:03:00):
that come from the other side. You know. You know,
doctor King said he felt like he made a mistake
and maybe integrate us into a burning house. He was
talking about a lot of things, and one of the
things I believe he's talking about is the mentality and
the culture of America. Because American culture is individualistic. American
culture is about the bag. American culture is violent. American
culture is about exploitation. That's that's what Americans built on.

(01:03:22):
That's what I say to my authors, know that this country.
Although the book says a century long battle to restore
the soul of America, I start off saying America does
not have a soul. It has not and it cannot
have a soul into it it redeems itself. And how
does the redeem it self about paying reparations to the
people that they've they've harmed. And so that's what we are.

(01:03:43):
But the more that we take on American culture, the
more that we take on individualistics, all about the money
and I'm gonna be a big capitalist and that is
the American culture. That is not the culture that built
the greenwoods.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Of the world.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
It's funny, you know, you're saying this because when we
each before we got ready to travel to Africa, obviously
everybody was telling us be careful, they don't like us.
And you know, we've heard the narratives even at home
that Africans don't love us, and they don't you know,
they see they look down on us and all the things.
And I never necessarily believed it because I have good

(01:04:22):
relationships with African people, but it does make you feel like,
when we go over here, are they going to like
treat us?

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Funny, like, how is it gonna be?

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
And of course, as soon as we touched the ground,
there was so much love and so much care, and
so much of a desire to connect with us, to
learn from us. And what I realize is that narrative
is coming from a particular place. It's when Africans come
over here and become Americanized that's the problem. The problem

(01:04:51):
is that people who have met African folks who treat them,
you know, treated them like whatever, treated We're indifferent towards them.
Those are people who have now learned that we as
Black Americans are seen as the bottom of the batrel
here in this country.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
And they don't have to respect us.

Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
That is something they picked up people, because that is
not the culture that exists in the motherlands. It's not
I don't feel that way, and so I think you're right.
It is that most of us if we just take
away all of the American eyes whatever that we all have, well,
all of the culture, we all participate in this culture,
if we take it away and we strip it, we

(01:05:31):
find the opportunity to do this for ourselves. I don't
know how we're going to make America deal with its
own soul, but I know we as black people need
to deal with our own like we have a sole
issue as well that we're going to have to address
if we ever want to be in a place where
we can build real communities, you know, for our children.

(01:05:51):
And I look forward to that. You know, you know,
you text me whatever they checking on me. After seeing
people just saying crazy the things about me. It's just
bold face lies, bold face lies, and we do that
to one another because we've been taught that that's the
way that we communicate it's about scarcity.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
You you how come you're getting attention and I'm not
getting attention. Things like that, and we will not build
the beloved community with that type of attitude towards our
brothers and sisters.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
It wasn't a question. I was just rinking, Oh no,
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:06:24):
That's I think that's good. And also when you talked
about people coming from the different African countries, have to
realize too. First of all, they've been colonized.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Right, so they get what they've been through exactly that
we caused. By the way.

Speaker 5 (01:06:37):
America, who's the week? Who's the week?

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
So I have to include us some degree, because if
we're not turning over tables to say that we do
not want our money to pay for genocide and wars
and all of that, then we become you know, right, we.

Speaker 5 (01:06:56):
Get so happy with complicit, Yes, a hundred percent. And
also we have to realize to a lot o your book,
don't don't.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
Get on here with us and mess up and then
and then you know, then when you get back you're
publishing company is like, what the hell happened?

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
You went over there with them? The interview is over? Great,
Thank you so much, I make my living as a lawyer,
right right, that's great. We're gonna make some money also
as an auf.

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
Redeem a nation the century long battle to restore the
soul of America. Attorney the Mario Solomon Simmons from Tosa, Oklahoma.
We have to shout out our sister, Tiffany. We didn't
talk about you being one of the attorneys to fight
for her brother, Terrence Crutcher, and there was a win.
We should make sure be coming that there was a

(01:07:49):
win in the last few and Tiffany, oh, my lord,
on the battlefield, battlefield, not just for her brother, but
also for families who have been killed by the state,
state sanctioned violence. And she is out there traveling the
country standing up for folks and then being involved in
every other type of civil rights cause istory that you

(01:08:11):
can think of.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
And kind of holds them.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Book talks, some people like me who need to sell
books and just doing so many great things, and to
get a good win is always important to keep us going.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
So talk about what happened.

Speaker 5 (01:08:23):
Yeah, I want to talk about that win. For sure.
We had a scenario where for those who don't know,
Tiffany Crutcher is a twin is a twin brother named
Terence Crutcher who on September sixteen, twenty sixteen, he was
shot with his hands up in the air, walking away
from a white police officer by the name of Betty
Joe Share, a white Tulsa police officer and Betty Joe Shelby.

(01:08:44):
He was unarmed. He was shot in the chest. He
was allowed to lay on the ground and bleed out
for two and a half minutes without anyone coming to
us aid. In fact, there was three other officers on
the scene and a helicopter up above, and when she
shot him unjustly, unlawfully, constitutionally, they all came to her
aid while Terrence laid out bleeding and died. And Tiffany

(01:09:07):
was a position in Montgomery, Alabama, living her life, successful,
enjoying herself. When this happened. She has moved back home,
started to Terrence Crutches Foundation, and as you said, doing
great things around the country. Well, the officer was indicted,
but she was acquitted after a trial in twenty seventeen.

(01:09:30):
Now you're talking about a heart blow blow. Now was
it a blow that she got acquitted? But then something
happened has never happened in my legal career. The jury
sent a note to the court that's of record saying,
although we acquitted her, we don't find her blameless. We
just didn't feel like there was any evidence that she

(01:09:51):
did anything else out of her training. Now that was
that is like pouring salt into a wound. You let
someone off criminally, but then you said it up blameless.

Speaker 4 (01:10:00):
So our legers, for their ego, for that personal to
be able to say, oh, we did at least do this,
you know, we said it wasn't all the way justified.

Speaker 5 (01:10:11):
Yeah, absolutely crazy. So then we follow our civil lawsuit
in May of twenty seventeen, and if we've had so
many roadblocks dealing with so much an injustice, and the
case was dismissed in twenty twenty three at the district
court level, so we had to appeal that how to
be appelled in just earity again we had to go
to the Tenth Circuit, which is endeavor. At last May,

(01:10:32):
we argued that shout out to Karen Courtlock, who's my
co counsel here out of New York, Gibson and done.
And on March thirtieth, just two weeks ago, we found
out the Tenth circuit reversed the dismissal and they had
given Betty Joe Shelby something you guys talk about all time,
qualified right and qualified immunity is something that protects these

(01:10:52):
rogue and corrupt cops, something we got to get rid of.
He the court reversed it and said there's no way
essentially that she could get qualified community because he was unarmed,
he was he was compliant, he was not a threat,
and she was at a far distance. So that's that's
been just an amazing thing for us. It's really made

(01:11:13):
the family get some hope. We're hoping that the City
of Tulsa and our new mayor, a new black mayor,
our first black mayor you met, brother Mayor Monroe Nichols.
We hope that they do the right thing and resolve
this case with this family so they don't have to
go through any more litigation. But if they will not,
we're gonna have the biggest trial in Tulsa history. Y'all
gonna come the biggest trial in Tulsa history. We're gonnaut

(01:11:34):
Betty Joe Shelby on the stand. We're gonna put the
city of Tulsa on the stand because what happened to Terrence,
you know, when he was shot. They had eyewitnesses to
the shooting that they may leave this scene. This is
on video. When she was she was supposed to go
directly to the police station and give us state. They
sent her somewhere else for three days before she was interviewed.
So so much that didn't come out in the little

(01:11:56):
trial that will come out in our troth.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Wow, Wow, how do you feel?

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
I'm sorry, Mice, I don't know if you had a
good thing, but I was gonna say, how do you
feel when you see that at the same time that
there's a win in Tulsa. Then you flip over here
and Breonna Taylor's family has a major blow in terms
of the indictments being or the charges being dropped against
the two offices responsible for not even killing her, just

(01:12:21):
responsible for the chaos that was created that night.

Speaker 5 (01:12:26):
You know, it's it's devastating to see that. And I
was just just, you know, we're living, like I said,
mag a delusion. Like you know, we've lived in racist
societies before. I mean, that's our whole experience. But just
duo in and just say we're just gonna partner people,
you know, when when Trump came in and he partnered
the January sixth folks, at that point I knew it
was on. We know where we are. So's it's devastating

(01:12:48):
and to go through all of that. Of course, you
guys were very instrumental on the ground there in Kentucky
making sure that was going through. And see that reverse.
That really tells us that we have a lot of
work cut on behalf. You got to do our work
internally as a community. We got to also make sure
we're engaging in the political process the best way we can.
And what I'll talk about in the book, well, I
think this is so timely today is because I'm saying
we are not trying to go back to the status quote.

(01:13:10):
We're trying to build something new. And so we need
politicians and those asking for the vote to be talking
about really doing something different, not reform, not status quote,
not going back to normal, because normal had us getting
shot by our hands up. Normal was a mass incarceration.
Normal is a health disparities, maternal Black women dying way
more than other people when they're having a baby. We

(01:13:32):
need something new, bold, and different. That's how we redeem
this nation.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
I'm glad.

Speaker 4 (01:13:40):
It's nothing else to do that to get this.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
Redeeming nation by Brother Tomorroo slimon seven, Get the Boy.
It's a pleasure man. The work that you do, you know,
is it's indescribable.

Speaker 5 (01:13:53):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
You know, people need front line fighters. You know, we
do our part, but we need that legal aspect. We
need people that we know understand the law and and
and utilize it for the sake of our people's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
Because you can be doing anything else.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
One of less sound like to say. You know you're
saying in front line, and I am on the front line.
But I'm hoping. We have a campaign kind of Greenwood
eleven thousand and doing the massacres about eleven thousand black
folks letting green. So we're looking for black folks to
get engaged with this book, but engage with this campaign
that is going to redeem a nation. Dot com getting
the book, reading the book, but then also taking the

(01:14:30):
toolkit that we provide for free. If you can use
that tool kit, sign the players. It's a workbook there
that you can engage your family, your sorority, your organization,
your church, and you can get on the front lines
yourself and then connect with us at Justice Forgreenworock dot
org and we will put you. We will give you
an assignment, we will give you something to do so
you can be actively because we need all of us. Know,

(01:14:53):
this is a war, this is you know, they're trying
to take us back to Enslave. Seriously, people, it's not
a joke. They should see what's going on. This is
not a joke these folks. Hey, I come from a
community that was bond from the air. They will do
just again, we need community. We need to be all
on the front lines. But we cannot just be on that.
We have to understand what time it is. And this

(01:15:14):
book will give you the understanding.

Speaker 4 (01:15:15):
All right, thank you so much for being with us,
my brother, and we're gonna be you know, we have
to host you once the book is out and get
our people in New York to come out and see you.

Speaker 5 (01:15:26):
That's right.

Speaker 6 (01:15:29):
Here.

Speaker 5 (01:15:29):
May Twell be here, Slope Park, Parks Park, Slow Park.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
You gotta stay for my birthday parties.

Speaker 5 (01:15:36):
Okay, I'm coming in. Well, I'm gonna be DC on
a thirteen. I'm coming in on May tenth doing media.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
And the book.

Speaker 5 (01:15:43):
The book be May twelve.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
You know that people who live in like this is
just a New York tip. If we live in Harlem
and Manhattan, we won't really go to flow. So you
gotta like supposed to have two different events. This is
two different sides of Away Park, Slow and Harlem. It's
two different sides of the world.

Speaker 5 (01:16:07):
Is can you you help me get you know, we
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Let's do it. Let's do a coffee conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:16:14):
Let's do what I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
All right, Let's make it happen. Thank you so much
for joining us to Mario.

Speaker 5 (01:16:18):
We love you, you appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:20):
We stand up redemtion.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
That was so good.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Shout out to our brother the Mario Salomon Simmons in
his excellent book Man. I just love his energy. Man
ever since the first day I met him, Like I
said during the interview, just watching him present the case
for the survivors of the.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
The Supreme Court of Oklahoma, that was something I don't
never been to anything like that, but.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
No, I would usually watch those on television, but this
was the first time I actually sat there and he
had them in awe mm hmm because the way that
he presented his case and he was so well spoken,
he had his details, he had all of the facts.
They couldn't really, even though they denied that. I know
they went back because it's just probably just some racist

(01:17:15):
shit they got going on. But on his face, they
couldn't look them in the face and tell him anything
he said was wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
No, no, no.

Speaker 4 (01:17:22):
If you remember, at least one of the female justices
he said, he was like like, wow, like you proved
this case very well and in person like their immediate
reaction was their true reaction. That's what I'm the problem is. No,
I'm saying I'm agreeing with you. I'm supporting what you said.

(01:17:43):
That's why I said, no, No, you not not. You
could tell maybe no, no. The woman set it out
of her mouth, and they gave us a sense of
hope because as they went down the panel or however,
I don't remember exactly what happened, but I do remember
multiple people, their energy, the way they would looking some
of the questions, because remember they got to ask questions,

(01:18:05):
and as they were asked, you could tell.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
Ye, the States the States lawyer was terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
Yeah, he was terrible, and they had proven he the
Mario had proven the case period. He was masterful in
his presentation. What happened, and what happens often is they
went behind those curtains.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Yeah, and they don't want they don't want to have
presidents in which they do something that alters the current
state of the law. Right, And they know in order
what they were about to do was set of presidents
to show that these people deserve, you know, to be compensated.
And they know that would have rolled back until.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Right, well, they would have had to do, but then
other massacres.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
Yeah, and it would have went into reparation, and they
didn't want to open the door for reparation. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
They went behind the curtain and said, you cannot give
these negroes an inch because they'll take him out.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
He can't do it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:02):
And it's really sad, But I think that this book
is just what we need in this time we need
to support I know how listen As an author, I
know how much we need people to purchase books when
we take the time to pour everything we have into it,

(01:19:25):
to really put a not a truth, not a version
of the truth, but the truth in the world. And
I hope that people will support brother de Mario. He's
a humble giant and a masterful attorney, and he's a
community leader, he's a nation builder, and we need to
support our brother in doing that. So redeemination the century

(01:19:48):
long battle to restore the soul of America. By attorney
to Mario Solomon Simmons.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
Please support the land, support.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
The brother because he's doing the work. Yeah, and that
brings me to my I don't get it, you know,
And we talked when we talk about a lawyer, right,
this situation requires a lawyer, you know. Throughout this week.
There's been a lot of talk all week, the last
couple of weeks, you know, but it's I've been seeing
it pop up in here and I've made a couple
of comments on my social media about this situation. I

(01:20:19):
don't know if you've been very in tune with it,
because you don't really be caring about the hip hops
and all that stuff. You know, you're here and there.
You'll come to me and hear something. But there was
a situation with Gucci Maine and his artist Poushisty. Now
Poushisty has just recently came home from prison after serving
about five years, and he was on house arrests with

(01:20:43):
an ankle monitor and only for about six months. And
in the six months he's been home, he's gone a
lot of attention.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Yeah, I can't wait to see where you're going with
this because from the Mario to this is very low vibration.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
It's not really low viperating. It's just a reality of
what we're going. Because the thing is this podcast, right,
it is culminated of different It is culminated. It is
a culmination, but it is culminated of different aspects of
like culminated work.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Because it is culminated, culminated ahead if you like.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Me to say culmination. Cool, I can see this.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
It was just funny good.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
But it consists of aspect.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
There we go.

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
You know that we have the political aspects we have,
you know, the toes that you talk about, We have
the head that you do. We have different things, but
every now and then they're hip because you know, my my.

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
No hip hop has has implications across the world and
in our community.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
Yeah, so when we're talking when we're talking about a
lawyer and Poshay is going to need a lawyer in
this situation. So there's definitely, you know, a connection there. So,
like I was saying, he's just been home for six
months and he's got garnered a lot of attention.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Has been home six months. Yes, I didn't even was
in jail.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
Yes you didn't hear me. Just start off. Okay, don't
worry about it. You probably a little time. But anyway,
he's been home for six months, he's gone a lot
of attentions for a couple of records, have been high
on the charts. He's like one of the premium at
the Thewaiians. I don't like calling ryans with the young
kids listen to I like the young kings. I call
him young kings, but they listened to him.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Is he a drill?

Speaker 3 (01:22:33):
Yeah, he's he's from he was going. Yeah, he's right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
I'm up on it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
He's the one that the mask they wear with the.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
Little nod.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
He's singing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
I mean, what is his rap?

Speaker 6 (01:22:50):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
How do you call it rap?

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
I mean, I'm not really like a person that listens.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:22:55):
The song he got was about him actually robbing. Somebody
told me get it back. I know it's called get
it back in Blood. That's one of his main songs.
To him and little Dirk had to get it back
in blood? You said, okay, so at anyway, so he's
gone a lot of attention ships. He's been home, and

(01:23:16):
you know the word was that Yo Gotti wanted to
sign him. Yo Gotti and Gucci Man don't really get along,
right Yo Gotti like Yo, listen because he from Memphis.
So Yo Gotti like, Yo, come home. You know what
I'm saying. We signed you, We're gonna get you your money.

Speaker 5 (01:23:33):
Woom boom.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
And he didn't feel like the deal that Gucci gave
him really was good. They told him like, yeah, this
ain't really the deal you signed. Pretty much a slave
deal over here. So who Shiste went to Gucci Man
said he went out to deal. Gucci Man, I'm not
letting you have to deal you. No, you're gonna have
to do this. So what you're gonna have to finish
this whole deal probably about seven eight albums you locked in.

(01:23:59):
He didn't want to let him out deal. So allegedly
he's supposed to call them to a meeting. They had
a meeting. In that meeting, you know, Pus Shasky came
there with allegedly came there with his father and a
couple of other dudes, and they robbed him and made
him sign himself out of the deal, made him sign
the deal and say pus Shasky's out. So afterwards this

(01:24:21):
happened a few months ago. The Feds just picked them up.
So you know, the word on the street is that
Gucci Man signed a statement told the Feds would happened,
he got snatched up, they got the video. Whatever's going on.
I don't know. All these things are alleged. So there's
been a lot of talk on whether you know Gucci
Man is a snitch, whether pou Shinsky is right, pou

(01:24:41):
Shasky's wrong on us. A lot of people don't care
about the snitch, you know, with you're a civilian, if
you've never been engaged in any street life. Everybody's like, oh,
why do y'all care about the street life and this
and that, and that's cool, and you might. You're one
hundred percent right, none of us should be engaged in
the street life. Just completely. I'm one hundred percent right.
I think that what pool Shisty did was the dummest thing.

(01:25:04):
I think after you serve a bunch of time in prison,
if allegedly if he did that, I think it's the
dummest thing that happened. If you come home from prison
after serving his time and you put yourself in this
type of situation. It's really doesn't make my sense. With
that being said, Gucci Man know who pou shist did, right,

(01:25:25):
and pool Shisty has a reality of who he think
Gucci Man did. Because Gucci Min presents himself as the
street person. You know, Gucci Man has a history of
quote unquote violence and all these things throughout his whole history.
This is what Gucci Man has made a career off.
You know, So my with my out don't get it here,
right is there was a versus what Jizi and Gucci Man.

(01:25:50):
It was, you know, I mean Jizi had this conversation.
I really respected the way he can he can handle
the situation. They had a twenty almost twenty year beef
where one of Jizi's friends lost his life. Allegedly, Gucci's
been screaming for years that Jiezi sent this person to
rob him and kill him and all this stuff. So
this is what's been going floating around for years. Jiezi

(01:26:12):
has denied all that Gucci's been saying it for years,
And in that whole versus, Gucci was putting out of energy.
That was just yo, I'm here for this. You know
he spoke, he talked about the man who was killed,
said he's smoking on him. And you know you sent
them to me. You send some more. We're gonna send

(01:26:33):
him back in the box. Is free killed? This is
all now boos shist he's sending in an audience with
Gucci like, yeah, I'm right on my man, because this
is the energy that you put out. This is who
is CEO is if they ready to turn up. Now,
this is real street dudes that abide by the glass
that you say that you are bad by. So now
when you put that energy out there, they rhyme with you.

(01:26:53):
They think this is who you are. Now we fast
forward to this situation, right, they feel like you you
present yourself as a street dude. You know they street dudes.
So in the street rules, you respect the jukes. If
you get robbed, you to give it up. You respect

(01:27:15):
the dicks. You don't get killed, you don't go to
the police. You respect the gicks. You try to get
your money back, or you respect the jicks you separated.
That's the laws of the street. Now, people that are
saying you shouldn't you should go to the police, I
get it. I'm just trying to say that people are
not acknowledging that Gucci min has presented itself as this

(01:27:35):
top tier street individual. He brags about the body he caught,
he brags about how gangster he is. He always somebody
he's never going to the police. This is who Gucci
Man presented. So what happens is these young kids who
felt like they was being jerked thought they was dealing
with the street individual because that's the energy, that's the persona,
that's what you glorified. That's where you got your name from,

(01:27:58):
being the street individual. So my problem is, I'm not
mad that Gucci went to the police because that's who
you've been. I've been telling people for years. When Gucci
Man is screaming that somebody shot him and Jeezi did this,
that's snitching for years. It's been for years when we
was all in the streets, I was like, that man
is snitching, like everybody knows. And if you got shot

(01:28:19):
or you shoot somebody and somebody say and you telling
somebody who did it the police, you putting the police
on me. That's been snitching. So I'm confused that why
now in this situation where they allegedly saying that Gucci
Man is telling that people want to say that he's
a businessman in the civilian I don't get that part.

(01:28:40):
Y'all was golifying Gucci Man when he was on the stage.
Somebody's smoking on Pooky Log and he gonna send your
bodies back and is free killed, and y'all were saying, yeah,
he gangstering. Jeezi saw because he's like, yeah, we've grown men.
I'm trying to change our ways because these kids is
watching us. We've been through all of this. You're still
talking about that. These kids is dying and every day

(01:29:00):
because of the shit that we created. And people were
saying Gucci was soft, but now I mean that Jeezy
was soft. But now it's a situation where Gucci actually
has to deal with somebody that matched his energy, because
that's the energy you made him feel that you was on.
So he came to you. People say, Yo, he done No.
He thought he was dealing with another even though it's

(01:29:21):
still stupid, but he thought he was dealing with another
street dude, and he handled it the way that you
handled in the street, because that's what you told him
you was, That's what you told the world. He was
whether he.

Speaker 5 (01:29:32):
Had crash out or not.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
He thought he was dealing with another crash out. We
was gonna crash out together. But no, Now y'all want
to pump that he's a businessman and I'm cool and
I want all of us to evolved. I'm not going
to find any street thing. I'm not going find any
street rules, principles or nothing. What I'm trying to explain
to you is this, you can't have it both for you.
And this is what I've been trying to say. When

(01:29:54):
you say you evolved and you changed from the streets,
then that's who you're supposed to be. Don't try to
get the accolades and the celebration from the streets for
being street when you not street. That's what I'm trying
to say, because the people who are street, it's gonna
match you with the street. And heard Charlomagne saying, Yo,
you know he wouldn't do that. It was a white man.

(01:30:14):
Why nobody grab with the white CEO because they know
the white CEO is going to police. They know the
white CEO ain't the street person. He never presented itself
to be street. He ain't say you're gonna shoot nobody.
He ain't say you're killing any but he is. But
they know that the gangs that what he gonna use
is the law, and the ain't know that. So when
you present yourself that you're not with the law and

(01:30:35):
I will never snitch and I ain't telling, then understand
the people who not with the law as well, is
gonna meet you right there in the streets. You can't
compare it to I understand. It's no street dude gonna
grab up Lee or none of them because they know
they got the police on speed there matter.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
They also got the gangster on speed.

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
Matter of fact, they're not even coming to the meeting
with you because they know that you hostile and they're
gonna have the Feds with them in the media, they
gonna they gonna do. It's gonna be three or four
white dudes that got guns. They on a federal payroll,
they got license to carry, They're gonna shoot, send a mask,
all of that. That's who's gonna be with them, because

(01:31:16):
they understand I'm not built for none of that. So
when you come to a situation and you hand them
like a street dude with another street dude, that's what
comes with it. So I'm just I just want you
to understand it's not about glorification the street life. It's
not about buying buy street codes, and they are the
stupidest things in the world. What I'm just trying to say,
as a man, when you make a claim of this

(01:31:37):
is who you are, then deal with what comes with
being who you are. If you if you say that
you're a businessman, be a businessman all the way. Don't
be a businessman with gangsters, but be gangster us with businessmen.
It don't work like that. You can't pick and choose.
You don't have it both ways. I want you to
be honest and say I'm not with that, That's not

(01:31:58):
who I am. Till these kids to a god, these
kids in a proper way. These kids are here killing
each other, and they killing each other because they think
that they following that they idle. They idel was a gangster, right,
You probably created Pulls Shasty because he is watching what
you mean, was like, oh, this is what it is,
this is who you are. And then when you got

(01:32:19):
him in the arena and you still doing that at
forty plus years old, it don't make sense. It never
made sense. So stop. That's what I'm trying to say,
stop trying to be something you know, and stop getting
mad at people because they think you something you're not,
because that's the image that you projected them. Because when
they think that's the energy, people gonna match the energy.

(01:32:41):
If I'm in the if you're in the streets and
somebody's arguing with a killer and they know this argument
could turn into somebody getting killed, they gonna react first
because they know that's the energy. You put a load.
That dude is a killer. And once you was telling
them you're gonna threat, you make a threat to them,
they figure they gotta get you first. This is the
law or the jungle. So not in the jungle. You're

(01:33:01):
not a lion, you're not a tiger united being. Just
stay outside on the sidewalk, be a businessman and do business.
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
Well is that the man that has that Kisha keisha cure? Yeah,
that's a that's her husband. He seemed like a businessman
to me. I didn't know he was in in the street.

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
I don't know much of anything, but he's They seem
very like and I don't mean this, I'm not using
this term to disrespect them, but they have they very
commercial to me, like you know, this is like, this
is like hip hop royalty, you know, because.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
You know what I'm saying. There's there's been a level
of celebration for them because she's.

Speaker 1 (01:33:46):
I know the story, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:33:48):
So she's been more business or cleaning them up. But
if you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
You're saying that, see I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:33:54):
I remember you and Jeez discussing the the versus situation,
and I know that there was a lot of talk
about it at the time, but I didn't watch it
to know like the specifics of what you're saying. So
as a person who doesn't know, I'm trying to like
piece together this big puzzle of all these different players

(01:34:15):
and it just, you know, sounds like mess.

Speaker 3 (01:34:19):
And then on top of that, then on top of it,
after you do this stuff, after he gets locked up,
you make a song called crash out when you talk
about the kid, so you pull him more fight. You
can't be a businessman with you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
So wait a minute.

Speaker 4 (01:34:34):
He went to, oh, this is just the other day
that they got arrested for this situation.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
Yes, oh, because you know I saw talking about this.

Speaker 4 (01:34:41):
Now I know what's that boy's name with all of
the tattoos, on his face that he was telling what's
his name, yeah him. I saw him on the social
media saying that he had been telling people something about.

Speaker 1 (01:34:59):
It's so any layers and levels. Still they're saying it's.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
Mass, it's or nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:35:04):
But but it can get people hurt that I'm sharing part.

Speaker 3 (01:35:07):
And that's what I'm saying like this.

Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
Because I knows mass.

Speaker 3 (01:35:10):
If people just were able to acknowledge that I'm not
built for this and they just went to the sidewalks,
it would be a lot less people in the streets.

Speaker 4 (01:35:18):
But that makes people feel when you say the sidewalks,
you know, people don't like to hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:22):
We're just like red.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
Because I have no because I don't want to do
twenty or thirty years in jail. I don't want you
to do something to me, to have to protect myself
and have to harm you. So I realized, I'm a civilian.
I'm not a tough guy. I'm not trying to tough you.
I'm not trying to embarrass you. I don't want no
problems with you. I'm gonna defend myself. Other than that,
I don't want no problems with nobody. I am a civilian.

(01:35:47):
Every I'm not in the streets because I followed the law.
You know what I'm saying, that's I'm following the law.

Speaker 1 (01:35:52):
No you're not. You don't follow y'all don't follow the law.

Speaker 3 (01:35:55):
I'm not calling the law, but I'm following the law.
I followed the room.

Speaker 4 (01:35:58):
I told you to call the police or somebody not
doing that. I said you should call the police.

Speaker 5 (01:36:04):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
I mean, you know, I can't tell you the last time.

Speaker 4 (01:36:08):
I don't know the last time I dial nine one.
Have found even even when like dealing with an emergency
situation where somebody is sick and you're trying to help them,
I don't call my sister or some other nurse or somebody.

(01:36:29):
I just don't know the last time I died nine
one one. That'specially kind of second.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
It's actually because the reality situation is most of the
time then now one comes into our community.

Speaker 4 (01:36:41):
Yeah, it's dangerous, but it's but it is crazy to
me that we're so like we're trained that way.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
It's just it's just think it's better.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
For us because when we trained ourselves is that we
can fix our own problems in our community. We don't
need to call be able to call credible individuals in
certain aspects of life and say hey, I need you
to do this, and I need you to do this.
It makes us more self sufficient.

Speaker 4 (01:37:08):
That's a fact. We are definitely able to do that. Well,
there's that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
It's still it's still massy, but listen, we live and
mess sometimes. Really just don't get why people wanted to
celebrate Gucci Man for being gangster when he was talking
about smoking on Pooky log and sending back dead bodies
when he was versus Jeezy. But then I want to

(01:37:36):
say he's not a gangster when he's actually confronted by
a gangster and say he's a business I don't get
that far because you want you can't celebrate somebody for
being a gangster one minute and then say no, they're
not a gangster, he's a businessman. It don't really make
sense to me. That brings us to the end of
another episode, which is actually the first episode of our

(01:37:57):
new sixth season of d We appreciate you. Thank you
for supporting us, carrying us through six whole season of
being the number one podcast in the world. We appreciate you.
We couldn't do it without you. Make sure that you
tell us what you want, tell us what you like,
what you don't like, tell us you hate us, tell
us you love us. Who do y'all want to say? Interview?

(01:38:18):
What do y'all wanted to talk about? Give us all
the topics of everything that you feel. Because I'm not
gonna always be right, Tamika d mal reason, I can
always be wrong, but we will both always and I
mean always, be authentic.

Speaker 4 (01:38:31):
Please listen to the TMI podcast on the Black Effect Network,
on iHeartRadio, or anywhere podcasts are available, or catch

Speaker 3 (01:38:40):
The video version on YouTube at TMI show PC

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Mysonne

Tamika Mallory

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Betrayal Weekly

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Tulsa Never Ended: The Battle for Repair and Justice Guest: Damario Solomon-Simmons, Esq., M.Ed.