March 30, 2022 • 35 mins
Breaking Code Silence, the national advocacy organization for survivors, is discussed, featuring interviews with its director and offering options for advocacy and action. Kat Von D speaks with Paris Hilton about their mutual experience and using their platforms for change.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following episode contains disturbing and graphic accounts of survivor experiences.
It may not be suitable for younger audiences. Please listen
with care. What is this last year meant for you?
I just have never felt prouder in my life. I
feel I've done a lot of things in my life
(00:21):
that I'm proud of, but this, by far is the
thing that I'm most proud of. And just using my
voice and connecting with others and just the people who
have written me letters and who I've met, and just
people even coming up to me on the street and
just saying, like your documentary and what you did is
(00:42):
like helped change my life. And no, I'm finally being
believed and I'm you know, people never believed me, and
I thought I was crazy, And now because you've spoke out,
like I feel comfortable, like I can tell my story
and so many other people are coming out. So just
like to know that just by me being honest and
being vulnerable and real, touch so many people and really
(01:06):
got this huge conversation started. And now you know, the
media is talking about it. There's people who are coming
out and saying everything. There's people who work at these
places who now understand how best up it was and
they're coming forward and admitting what they were a part of,
and just yeah, like really turning my pain into a
(01:27):
purpose into such a huge way that you know, before,
I feel like so many people misunderstood me, and now
I feel like people understand me and they know like
what I've went through, and um, I just don't feel
alone anymore. I feel just so empowered and that I
have this whole family of survivors who are such amazing
(01:50):
people and so strong and resilient and we're just all
badasses that we went through all of that and we
made it through, and I'm just I'm so excited for
the future, and I'm so grateful to have both of
you as part of my team and all the work
that we've been doing together. It's like it's I never
(02:14):
thought I would be speaking like a Capitol Hill, Like
I literally feel like, I know it's cheesy or whatever,
but like El Woods Quekly Bond, you are. You're the
real life El Woods. I always had a dream of
being like that, but now that I actually it's pretty amazing.
(02:36):
From I Heart Radio London audio and executive producer Paris
Hilton this is Trapped in Treatment. We're your host's Rebecca
Mellinger and I'm Caroline Cole, one troubled Team industry survivor
and one investigator on a mission to expose the truth
of an industry plagued by controversy and to make sure
that no child has to experience the hell that is
(02:57):
Team Treatment. Yeah, after years of dealing with trauma on
(03:21):
our own, the time has finally arrived for survivors to
band together. After This Is Paris aired last year, the
outpouring of support was absolutely mind blowing, and for the
first time, many survivors felt that they could not only
share their experiences, but talk to their families and begin
(03:41):
the advocacy work that's necessary in order to create true change.
We saw so many survivors coming onto social media posting
their own photos and what they experienced at their particular facility.
We also heard from so many survivors saying that they
watched This Is Paris with their families and just like
what you just said, we're finally able to discuss the
(04:02):
hard topics that they've kept secret for so long. So
much work has been done over the last decade on
this industry, Survivors have been advocating for this for a
long time, but I think bringing it to the national
stage and beginning to share stories and create empathy is
what really has allowed this movement to explode absolutely, And
once we start to face that trauma, it just sparks
(04:25):
this inclination that we have got to do something. And
I've seen that across the community as a whole, to act,
to attack, to make right the injustice done to us.
And there's something therapeutic in that moment, like a light
at the end of the tunnel. Finding others, sharing stories
and being part of a community is some of the
most potent medicine for those who have kept their truth
(04:47):
hidden for years. A few months ago, Paris sat down
with Cat Vondie. You might know her as an amazing
tattoo artist, a musician, and so much more, but she's
also a survivor of pro Vocanian school. They sat down
to talk about Cat's story, the movement, and how it
felt to finally share it with the world. UM So,
(05:20):
I wanted to ask you what inspired you to become
a part of breaking coke Silence? UM? Well, I mean,
interestingly enough, obviously, once I saw um your documentary, UM
it definitely just like brought up a lot of memories,
and um, like I've said before, it's like, you know,
(05:41):
this happened twenty years ago to me, so a little
bit over twenty years ago. And so I've definitely done
the work in going to therapy and processing a lot
of like the trauma that I experienced. But then you know,
watching someone else retell their experience and it mirrorings so
much of your own, it's just, uh, I don't know,
it was it was just pretty alarming to me in
(06:03):
the net. And then and so right after I watched
your documentary, I googled to see if that you know, what,
what's going on with that place, and I was just
so shocked to see that it was actually still open
and functioning. So, um, I just felt like, more than ever,
it was the most important time to like come out
and share people my story. So this was the first
(06:24):
time that you ever have talked about it publicly? Yeah,
most definitely. I Mean, it's it's one of those things.
It's a it's a weird touchy subject because, um, I
think there is a lot of shame around it. I think, um,
you know, nobody wants to admit that at one point
in their life they were institutionalized or or that you know,
your parents would send you away to something like that. UM.
(06:45):
One thing that I did find interesting after I posted
my video talking about my experience was a lot of
people's responses were towards my parents. You know, I think
that people don't understand how we're not the only victims
and the equation. I think parents are the first victims
because these schools or institutes, they pretty much prey on
(07:08):
the fear that parents have, and you know, you go
to their website and they have these um you know,
uh stock images taken of random people, happy kids and uh,
you know, even seeing the facade of the front of
the school was really to me offensive because the kids
are actually never in that part of the school. Like
(07:29):
I I didn't see the sun for six months. UM
where I stayed had nothing. It didn't look pretty like
that at all. And I think if if places like
this continue to exist like that, obviously there has to
be a lot of change, and there has to be
regulation and I think a lot more transparency, you know. UM. Nowadays,
(07:51):
I think people are more savvy with the computer and
they can look up, you know, different testimonials and it's
a little harder to get away with it than isn't
when I, when I was sent you know, there wasn't um,
the internet as active as it is now. So but um,
you know, and and like you pointed out in your documentary,
this isn't it isn't cheap either, you know. And we
(08:12):
didn't come from money, so my parents having to put
their house on the loan just because they believed that
this place was going to help me in some way,
because that's what they were sold on. And um, and
I feel I feel terrible that my parents had to
go through that. You know, it wasn't their choice. Uh,
you know, if it if it was up to them,
they would have never put me in that place, if
they would have known what was going on, you know. Um.
(08:34):
And I don't know what it was like for you,
but for me, like I, I didn't have a line out.
You know, it's not like you could call your parents
or call somebody for help. I mean, even if you're hurt,
you can't call a doctor or or even the police
or in any kind of protective service. So you you
truly are trapped. Um. So yeah, I mean it's I
(08:54):
just can't believe this isn't just a narration of a
horror film and the reality when I talked about it
and think about it, I'm like, I can't believe this
actually happened to me. And the same thing with my parents,
my mom and my dad. People have just been writing
all of these like even threatening them, and my parents
(09:15):
had no idea and they have the best intentions. Yeah,
they think you're going to this normal boarding school. Like
they're completely conned. The parents are just as manipulated as
the children there, and they to my parents would have
never ever sent me somewhere like that. And I can
tell them, like you said, they cut us, cut us
off from the outside world. We couldn't call if we
(09:37):
tried to say anything. We tried to write a letter,
they would phone take away the phone privileges for our letters.
It was impossible. Yeah, exactly. But you know I think, um,
I think, I don't know. My one of the things
that helped me back from really talking about it publicly
is because I did want to, you know, spare my
(09:58):
parents the pain full um knowledge of what what happened
and what they accidentally put me through. Um, you know,
I don't, I don't. I don't believe that they should
be punished for that at all, and you know, I think, Um,
I mean, but in hindsight, I am grateful for that experience.
If if one thing I could take from it is
(10:18):
obviously I would never put my son through that. And yeah,
so yeah, it doesn't kill you, makes you stofer why
we are so you know, unfortunately it's not you know,
I think we're lucky in spite of our experience, we've
been able to thrive. But since I've posted this video,
I've gotten people messaging me saying, hey, my little brother
(10:40):
went and guess what. He committed suicide the minute he
got out. And so many kids that aren't able to
cope as I guess as well as we did. I mean,
I didn't cope very well through it. You know. The
first few years I drank until I was blind. So, um,
you know, that's no way to live and um, and
I don't know if it necessarily I mean, yeah, sure
we we we can grow from this and become stronger,
(11:02):
but there there's some scarring and um, and that's the
hand that we're dealt, you know. Now, it's just our
job to try our best to to to fix all
that as best as we can um. You know, I don't.
I don't want to be a victim. I don't want
to be uh, live a traumatized life. And I don't
(11:22):
want you to have insomnia, you know, like you do
and UM, you don't deserve that. Nobody does. UM. And
so now it's just a matter of like what do
we do to repair that? And you know what, And
it is a beautiful thing to get a lot of
people messaging I'm sure you're you're getting the same thing
saying like, man, you know, I'm so glad I'm not alone.
And and it's pretty scary how many people. I mean,
(11:44):
even in my comments, I was like, there's such a
high percentage of people that have experienced this UM and
that's probably why it's such a profitable industry. Unfortunately, they
are making money off the abuse of children. And yeah,
it needs to stop. That's why we're all coming together. Yeah,
(12:07):
i'd love to hear I've already heard your story, but
to the new listeners listening right now, could you please
tell me your story in any of the most traumatic
experiences that you're experienced or you saw having others. I mean,
it's a lot, so I won't take up too much
time trade to concise as much as possible. But UM,
(12:28):
you know, basically the reason that my parents sought out
this type of help was because when I was fifteen, UM,
I had already started tattooing, and I dropped out of
high school. UM, which is not something that you know,
you any parent desires for their child. And so UM
then being you know, quite conservative and very like religious
folks like, they just were terrified. And so we had
(12:51):
been going to a family therapist at the time, and UM, she,
without my knowledge, recommended that they put me in this place.
I'm sure she got a cut for this, you know.
I mean I hold her just as responsible as the
other places. UM. But UM, so my parents, I don't
I don't think they realized that they were literally signing
away their rights and my rights. UM. I mean this
(13:15):
is I don't. I don't know how this can be legal.
And UM, just like you, I had, UM, two men
and a female show up in my bedroom while I
was asleep. I don't know what time it was, it
was in the middle of the night, and UM threatened
that if I if I wasn't calm, if I resisted
in any way, they would handcuff me and so I
(13:36):
didn't resist. But then once the plane landed in Utah,
UM they blindfolded me when they put me into a car,
and so I have I had no idea where I was.
And once we arrived and got admitted UM, they did
a strip search and UM, which which I feel was
pretty unnecessary considering they just kidnapped me in the middle
(14:00):
of the night and watched me dress. But but I
think that's all part of it, you know. I think
that that the the degrading and the making you feel
powerless and small is really all part of this weird
power trip UM. So, like I said before, for the
next six months, I did not see the sun, I
didn't go outside UM, and we were forced to uh
(14:25):
follow these really crazy rules, everything from you know, not
talking out of line and UH to standing in formation
for hours on end. And the punishments were were extremely
cruel and strange. I mean, some of the more mild
things would be to be sitting on a chair facing
a wall for hours on end, UM. But then some
of the more extreme punishments would be you know, drugs, sedation.
(14:49):
They would inject you, usually in the butt with UM
with something that makes you a complete zombie. And uh
later you could be put to solitary confinement and um,
you know, that was one of the things watching your
documentary that was extremely triggering to me because in my mind,
you know, they obviously don't let you take photos in there,
(15:11):
but I could draw that room and seeing it come
to life even through an animation in that documentary, um,
oh man, it just brought back smells and just um
it's triggers. But um, so yeah, so so um. There
there was a lot of other violent stuff that happened,
(15:33):
and thankfully I was spared of of the physical abuse,
but I definitely saw it with other kids and um,
and then also amongst themselves and you know, they they
would be find places to not be as supervised. And
I saw some pretty traumatic things that are so graphic
that I don't think I should ever say them out loud,
(15:55):
but I'm sure you can attest to the same experience. Um.
And then obviously just being completely cut off from your
family the entire time. My experience was probably a little
different than yours because my parents put me in there
because they were terrified of the tattoo world, you know,
and I don't blame them. At the time, there was
no TV shows, there was you know, all you the
(16:15):
perspectivective on tattooing was really just about like hoodlums and
you know, you're either a hooker or in a gang
or something terrible, and so that, you know, they were
terrified and they didn't realize it was just a form
of self expression. So when I got admitted that that
was one of the things that they wanted to cure
me from UM and so the the I don't know
(16:36):
whose idea it was, but at one point the counselor
set me aside and basically told me that I had
contracted HIV from a tattoo. And this was after they
take your blood and a stool testament. You're in test
and all that, and so you're sitting there with somebody
who you think is qualified, who absolutely has zero credentials,
and they're telling you news like this as a fifteen
(16:57):
year old, I mean, I was, you know, I can't
even believe that that happened. And when I did get
admitted out, I was never told that wasn't that that
was just a joke, that that was false. I went
through my entire life up until I got tested again.
You know, at the age of seventeen or eighteen, and uh,
(17:18):
and then realized that, Okay, cool, I I'm gonna be okay.
But it's a it's a complete, you know, psychological awful
thing to do to somebody. And I wasn't the only one,
you know, I was in one of the girls that
I was in there with Ashley. She she experienced some
of the same things where they, you know, told her
(17:39):
she had a disease that she didn't have in order
to scare her from doing something else. And UM, there's
no way this is legal. You know. Since then, I
have looked up the counselor that was in charge of
my case, and UM, I don't wish anybody poorly. I
really don't, not even my worst enemies, but that man, Um,
(18:00):
the fact that she's still working with children is horrific
to me. And UM, a part I guess a desire
or wish for me would be that somehow she would
be held accountable for what she's done as well. UM,
I mean there were plenty of counselors there that were awful,
but UM remember all their names. Yeah, they'll be held
(18:23):
accountable and they're going to be exposed. I'm not going
to say their names. Right now. But yeah, and it's
hard because you know, you don't want to live this
life full of like rage and revenge like I I don't,
you know, I've worked so hard my life to live
like a happy, positive life and this was something that
was tragic and it happened. But I'm just so grateful
to you that you have just shined a huge light
(18:45):
on this, because I don't know if I would have
necessarily had the courage to do it if you hadn't.
So I just want to say thanks for that. And
I'm sure everybody else feels the same way. Thank you.
I'm so happy that you are helping me shine a
light on this because we're just so lucky that we
have these platforms where we have a voice, and a
lot of the people they they don't have that voice,
(19:08):
and they've been called liars and they've not been believed
to the fact that we both are coming together is
so validating to them and they're finally being believed and
it's it's such a healing thing and it's empowering so
many and this community we love you guys, we see survivors,
We support you, we stand with you, and this community
(19:30):
is so amazing and loving. Like I was reading your
comments after the video you posted on Instagram TV and
I was just like crime, just reading all the stories,
how much love and support. It's really incredible. Yeah, yeah,
most definitely. I guess the last thing I'm gonna I
just wanted to say before I leave is just to
to the parents out there that are watching this if
(19:51):
if you know, if if you've been recommended these schools, Um,
they are extremely manipulative. I mean I posted to to
tell followers to co check out their Yelp reviews, and
then moments later they made it to where you can't
read them anymore. But if you were to have read
all the testimonials, you would be in in a complete
(20:11):
state of horror. And so I think just to do
your due diligence whenever you're looking into getting or seeking
help for you for your child, um, don't just fall
for whatever marketing that these these huge companies have. And
so um, yeah, I think I'm hoping. I mean that
that's truly where where the power is in right now
(20:31):
is is educating parents and knowing that there there are
other options. There is other options, there's other places that
don't do this, but there's so many places that do.
It's it's mind blowing. Yeah. I want to thank you
so much, of course, Sonka. I'm sending you so much
love and I'm so grateful for you and you're using
(20:53):
your voice and continuing mutual Yeah, and thanks for having me.
Thank you. Katherine McNamara is a survivor who has overcome
(21:29):
so much. She speaks often about how activism is what
gave her focus and allowed her to deal with her trauma.
In the past year, there's been tremendous, tremendous movement forward
as far as changes in laws, UH, largely due to
(21:49):
not only the work that Paris Hilton has done with
her documentary, but also the organization breaking code silence. And
there's actually quite a long history of activism and advocacy
in the survivors space UM that spans back um a
couple of decades at least. So can you tell us
(22:10):
how did you become involved in the activism space around
T t I facilities and and team residential centers. In
two thousands seventeen, when I, like I was waking up
all over again, I joined like a Facebook support group
and like I just had this like fire under my butt,
So like I work in like cybersecurity UM, which just
(22:34):
kind of like, I mean, I didn't join cybersecurity because
like provocanean school, but it's just kind of ironic because like,
you know, they wanted me to play on the computer
lesson now I just make you know, I do that
for a living. So I joined that community and I
noticed that like, uh, you know, like no I knew
how to do records, polls and very analytical and stuff
like that. So I started like like digging in. Like
(22:55):
I think a lot of times when people like wake up,
they start to like research like the industry and like
the people that hurt them and stuff like that. And
I started seeing like how everything kind of tied together.
And I befriended a couple like really really good people
who I'm like still friends with his day, who kind
of took me under their wing, and like I kind
of bounced stuff off of them, and as I like woke,
(23:16):
like I found stuff like I would like posted in
the groups like oh my, like look at this, Like
so I learned that like really quickly, if I do
like uh holes of records from like court cases, I
could get some of the evidence too, And like I
was starting to find like evidence of byb It's not
just we remember it being abusive, but here's stuff that
we you know, uh, stuff that's really abusive. Like here's
(23:37):
proof that it happened. Um. And as like I dug
into it further and further, I was like, you know,
you know, I started getting more organized with other people.
Um and you know, like I think I was doing
kind of like guerilla activism, and then the Pair Silton
documentary came along, and um, you know, like that's I
think when we started formally getting uh more like organized.
(24:00):
Just because of that, Like you know, there's just gonna
be this this big things coming that's going to be
a lot of momentum. Let's go ahead and use that
to like try to make the most growth. Like you know,
the gorilla stuff works really well, and he's like you know,
like pop up little like activism projects. But the reality
is to stop an industry this powerful, you do need
to have like a multilayered approach like research. You need
(24:23):
to have investigation, you have to have legislation and regulation
like that. You can't just you can't just protests like
and and expect that this multi billion dollar industry to
go away or get regulated. You need to actually have
some sort of formal organization and uh and you know
(24:43):
more than just like your rag tag team of like
three friends. Um, Like last weekend, I was working on
a timeline of like T T I events and so
like there's this like a whole like fifty years of
really depressing events. See do provocane in school, like you know,
you know j r C things coming out. But like
in the last like two years, there's been some really
(25:05):
momentous like like improvement. There's like a Montana bill that
passed in two thousand nineteen that moved the oversight over
to DHS. There was the UTAHS seven, there was the
Missouri's bills, There's organ bills, and there's like you know,
it's this long progression of like depressing to like really
optimistic that when like I don't I think that we're
(25:26):
in this great like time to change what like what
people think of as far as like adolescent care, congregate care. Uh.
And I think that the public is starting to see that,
you know, the nineteen sixties psychology it doesn't really work
like that, the version therapy, attack therapy, Like we need
to change how we treat these kids that are in
(25:46):
these programs. So, like we talked about a little bit earlier,
when This Is Paris premiered, there was this overwhelming swell
of survivors who came onto social media telling their own story,
(26:10):
both at pro Vocainian School and every single other program
within the United States, and Paris felt so connected to
this community, a community that she's never felt connected to before,
and so she really felt like she wanted to do
something tangible. She wanted to be with the survivor community
in person. So that's when we decided to partner with
(26:30):
Breaking Coach Silence and host a survivor rally outside of
pro Vocanian School so that we could show all of
the students still in there that there were people fighting
for them on the outside, and even for those of
us who didn't go to pro Vocanian School. Provo in
Utah in and of itself, had really kind of become
the figurehead of the industry. So when we got the
(26:52):
message that we were having this rally, me and at
least ten other people that I had seen in over
fifteen years all migrated to Utah and this was the
first time I was actually introduced to this community in person,
and seeing the numbers of people who showed up in Utah.
People drove for twelve hours to get there. They flew
(27:15):
in from Alaska, and we really had representation across the
entire United States. And to see everybody stand together, holding hands,
holding up signs, it really was just remarkable. I can't
tell you how many times I cried during that trip.
It was highly emotional and also deeply deeply validating to
(27:36):
what we had all experienced. And that's when we met,
and that's really when we started this journey together, which
I'm so grateful for. So let's talk to Paris about
what it was like for her. So what was it
like standing outside of pro Volcanian School of the Girls
campus when you went over there with the people that
you had been in the facility with? What were you thinking?
(27:58):
I was just it felt so good just to be
outside those doors and to know that they were terrified,
because right when where we landed at the airport, they're like, yeah,
they called the police, like they were like literally trying
to like still control us, even though they were like
adults out there, And it just made me feel really
(28:20):
good to know, like I was hoping because I know
that they're very weird about the kids looking outside the window.
But I was hoping that, like they were, the kids
in there were seeing that, or that maybe someone on
a higher level would see it on TV or something,
just to know that that I was out there and
we were all there together fighting for them and what
(28:41):
they put myself into so many others through. They deserve
that and so much more. They deserve to be in prison.
What are your hopes for the future of this movement?
I just look forward to continuing all of our work
together and passing our federal bill, and I want, you know,
(29:02):
these places to be safer for kids, and for all
the abuses that have happened to myself and so many
others to be illegal, and then to take this to
an international level, so you know, this is a not
just happening in the United States. This is happening all
around the world, and no child should have to suffer
like this and be traumatized. It's just it needs to stop.
(29:28):
If you could think back, what type of support did
you need at the time. I just feel like with parents,
instead of just going you know and speaking to someone
you hardly know and then sending your kids away just
to I feel like if my parents would have just
(29:48):
spoke to me and talked to me, and I could
have explained to them that, you know, I just wanted
to be able to go out for a little bit
that I don't know that is feel like I didn't
do anything like wrong to go there, so it's hard
to describe what I would need. I just feel like
I just hope that any parents listening to this can
(30:10):
understand that sending your kids to these places is the
worst possible thing that you could ever do. And any
of these places, they'll still lie and say they're good,
but they're not. Um. So yeah, I don't know. I
feel like it's just important just to speak with your
kids and let them know that you love them and
(30:32):
support them and and try to speak with them in
that way and not you know, I have them kidnapped
in the middle of the night and taken to the
scariest place in the world. And what I hear you
saying to which I think is such an important part
of this movement. Like I always say that we're doing
legislative change, which is incredible, but we're also creating cultural change,
(30:55):
which is even more challenging. But it's like you're a
teeny r that's what we do, right, Like, that's when
you're in your adolescence, you're discovering your independence. You're going
to push the boundaries. And so I think that there's
so many parents that either get terrified from this kind
of behavior or they just want to quite honestly like
(31:15):
control their kids and they can't deal with it and
they don't want to deal with or they have other
priorities or like, you know, whatever is going on. Um.
You know, every family has their own issues. But it's
like we have to as parents. You know. Now I've
got two kids, and we've got one on the way
in November. Uh, how can I as a parent like
(31:36):
actually provide for them in that kind of a way
and understand as they start to get older? O. Our
girl is fourteen, you know, and so she's starting to
do the teenager and stuff. And I think that's such
a huge, huge part of it. Yeah, I think, like
I can imagine too, like when I have kids, I'm
gonna want to be protective of them as well. But
(31:57):
I would I now know what these places are like,
I would I would never a billion years ever do that. Um.
But yeah, I think it's important for parents to understand
that all teenagers all, but most you know, they become
a little bit of a rebel because they're just like
feeling like they're a little bit grown up or whatever.
(32:18):
And I think when you're too strict with them, that's
when they will rebel even more if you don't let
them do anything. So I think it's just good to
like give a balance and maybe give some rules and like, okay,
you have to come home at this whatever curfew. I
don't know. There's just so many other ways to deal
with it than just sending them away, for sure. So
(32:43):
if you had the opportunity to get on the phone
with a kid who is currently at Provocani in school,
what would you tell them? I would say, I've been there,
I know exactly how you feel, and I'm so sorry
that you are having to go through this because I
(33:05):
know how painful and terrifying it is. Well, I want
you to know that I am out here with all
of a huge group of amazing people who are all
standing up for you, and we're doing everything in our
power to get this place shut down, change the rule,
anything just to make it better or to not exist
(33:28):
anymore so that you don't have to go through this anymore.
And that things are gonna be okay one day, and
just to be strong because it's going to be the
hardest thing that you're ever going to go through in
your life. But one day you'll be out and we'll
be happy hopefully. Well yeah, we are so so grateful
(33:54):
for you for a million one reasons, but particularly for
sort of allowing us to be on this journey with
you and to fight beside you. Has been the greatest
year of my life, the most impactful, the most purposeful,
and you know is is setting us up for a
(34:16):
life full of activism in this space, because I think
the minute anyone obviously survivors understand this, but the minute
anybody starts to understand what's happening for their kids, you
can really no longer turn a blind eye. It would
be impossible. And so that's the goal. Let's get everybody
to understand how bad these places are and and make
(34:37):
that final push to closing them down. No, I love you,
girls and so happy and proud to have you buy
my side, and just what we've done is truly amazing,
and this is just the beginning. We love you too, Paris,
and we're so happy to be on this ride with you,
(34:58):
but we're not done because the tree industry is far
larger than just pro Vocanian school. It's a national and
international trend. We don't plan to stop here because it's
not the only one. I mean, it's just it's replicated
and it's it's replicated by the UHS programs, it's replicated
by sequel programs, it's replicated by a Kadia program. Next
(35:19):
time on trapped in Treatment
The following episode contains disturbing and graphic accounts of survivor experiences.
It may not be suitable for younger audiences. Please listen
with care. What is this last year meant for you?
I just have never felt prouder in my life. I
feel I've done a lot of things in my life
(00:21):
that I'm proud of, but this, by far is the
thing that I'm most proud of. And just using my
voice and connecting with others and just the people who
have written me letters and who I've met, and just
people even coming up to me on the street and
just saying, like your documentary and what you did is
(00:42):
like helped change my life. And no, I'm finally being
believed and I'm you know, people never believed me, and
I thought I was crazy, And now because you've spoke out,
like I feel comfortable, like I can tell my story
and so many other people are coming out. So just
like to know that just by me being honest and
being vulnerable and real, touch so many people and really
(01:06):
got this huge conversation started. And now you know, the
media is talking about it. There's people who are coming
out and saying everything. There's people who work at these
places who now understand how best up it was and
they're coming forward and admitting what they were a part of,
and just yeah, like really turning my pain into a
(01:27):
purpose into such a huge way that you know, before,
I feel like so many people misunderstood me, and now
I feel like people understand me and they know like
what I've went through, and um, I just don't feel
alone anymore. I feel just so empowered and that I
have this whole family of survivors who are such amazing
(01:50):
people and so strong and resilient and we're just all
badasses that we went through all of that and we
made it through, and I'm just I'm so excited for
the future, and I'm so grateful to have both of
you as part of my team and all the work
that we've been doing together. It's like it's I never
(02:14):
thought I would be speaking like a Capitol Hill, Like
I literally feel like, I know it's cheesy or whatever,
but like El Woods Quekly Bond, you are. You're the
real life El Woods. I always had a dream of
being like that, but now that I actually it's pretty amazing.
(02:36):
From I Heart Radio London audio and executive producer Paris
Hilton this is Trapped in Treatment. We're your host's Rebecca
Mellinger and I'm Caroline Cole, one troubled Team industry survivor
and one investigator on a mission to expose the truth
of an industry plagued by controversy and to make sure
that no child has to experience the hell that is
(02:57):
Team Treatment. Yeah, after years of dealing with trauma on
(03:21):
our own, the time has finally arrived for survivors to
band together. After This Is Paris aired last year, the
outpouring of support was absolutely mind blowing, and for the
first time, many survivors felt that they could not only
share their experiences, but talk to their families and begin
(03:41):
the advocacy work that's necessary in order to create true change.
We saw so many survivors coming onto social media posting
their own photos and what they experienced at their particular facility.
We also heard from so many survivors saying that they
watched This Is Paris with their families and just like
what you just said, we're finally able to discuss the
(04:02):
hard topics that they've kept secret for so long. So
much work has been done over the last decade on
this industry, Survivors have been advocating for this for a
long time, but I think bringing it to the national
stage and beginning to share stories and create empathy is
what really has allowed this movement to explode absolutely, And
once we start to face that trauma, it just sparks
(04:25):
this inclination that we have got to do something. And
I've seen that across the community as a whole, to act,
to attack, to make right the injustice done to us.
And there's something therapeutic in that moment, like a light
at the end of the tunnel. Finding others, sharing stories
and being part of a community is some of the
most potent medicine for those who have kept their truth
(04:47):
hidden for years. A few months ago, Paris sat down
with Cat Vondie. You might know her as an amazing
tattoo artist, a musician, and so much more, but she's
also a survivor of pro Vocanian school. They sat down
to talk about Cat's story, the movement, and how it
felt to finally share it with the world. UM So,
(05:20):
I wanted to ask you what inspired you to become
a part of breaking coke Silence? UM? Well, I mean,
interestingly enough, obviously, once I saw um your documentary, UM
it definitely just like brought up a lot of memories,
and um, like I've said before, it's like, you know,
(05:41):
this happened twenty years ago to me, so a little
bit over twenty years ago. And so I've definitely done
the work in going to therapy and processing a lot
of like the trauma that I experienced. But then you know,
watching someone else retell their experience and it mirrorings so
much of your own, it's just, uh, I don't know,
it was it was just pretty alarming to me in
(06:03):
the net. And then and so right after I watched
your documentary, I googled to see if that you know, what,
what's going on with that place, and I was just
so shocked to see that it was actually still open
and functioning. So, um, I just felt like, more than ever,
it was the most important time to like come out
and share people my story. So this was the first
(06:24):
time that you ever have talked about it publicly? Yeah,
most definitely. I Mean, it's it's one of those things.
It's a it's a weird touchy subject because, um, I
think there is a lot of shame around it. I think, um,
you know, nobody wants to admit that at one point
in their life they were institutionalized or or that you know,
your parents would send you away to something like that. UM.
(06:45):
One thing that I did find interesting after I posted
my video talking about my experience was a lot of
people's responses were towards my parents. You know, I think
that people don't understand how we're not the only victims
and the equation. I think parents are the first victims
because these schools or institutes, they pretty much prey on
(07:08):
the fear that parents have, and you know, you go
to their website and they have these um you know,
uh stock images taken of random people, happy kids and uh,
you know, even seeing the facade of the front of
the school was really to me offensive because the kids
are actually never in that part of the school. Like
(07:29):
I I didn't see the sun for six months. UM
where I stayed had nothing. It didn't look pretty like
that at all. And I think if if places like
this continue to exist like that, obviously there has to
be a lot of change, and there has to be
regulation and I think a lot more transparency, you know. UM. Nowadays,
(07:51):
I think people are more savvy with the computer and
they can look up, you know, different testimonials and it's
a little harder to get away with it than isn't
when I, when I was sent you know, there wasn't um,
the internet as active as it is now. So but um,
you know, and and like you pointed out in your documentary,
this isn't it isn't cheap either, you know. And we
(08:12):
didn't come from money, so my parents having to put
their house on the loan just because they believed that
this place was going to help me in some way,
because that's what they were sold on. And um, and
I feel I feel terrible that my parents had to
go through that. You know, it wasn't their choice. Uh,
you know, if it if it was up to them,
they would have never put me in that place, if
they would have known what was going on, you know. Um.
(08:34):
And I don't know what it was like for you,
but for me, like I, I didn't have a line out.
You know, it's not like you could call your parents
or call somebody for help. I mean, even if you're hurt,
you can't call a doctor or or even the police
or in any kind of protective service. So you you
truly are trapped. Um. So yeah, I mean it's I
(08:54):
just can't believe this isn't just a narration of a
horror film and the reality when I talked about it
and think about it, I'm like, I can't believe this
actually happened to me. And the same thing with my parents,
my mom and my dad. People have just been writing
all of these like even threatening them, and my parents
(09:15):
had no idea and they have the best intentions. Yeah,
they think you're going to this normal boarding school. Like
they're completely conned. The parents are just as manipulated as
the children there, and they to my parents would have
never ever sent me somewhere like that. And I can
tell them, like you said, they cut us, cut us
off from the outside world. We couldn't call if we
(09:37):
tried to say anything. We tried to write a letter,
they would phone take away the phone privileges for our letters.
It was impossible. Yeah, exactly. But you know I think, um,
I think, I don't know. My one of the things
that helped me back from really talking about it publicly
is because I did want to, you know, spare my
(09:58):
parents the pain full um knowledge of what what happened
and what they accidentally put me through. Um, you know,
I don't, I don't. I don't believe that they should
be punished for that at all, and you know, I think, Um,
I mean, but in hindsight, I am grateful for that experience.
If if one thing I could take from it is
(10:18):
obviously I would never put my son through that. And yeah,
so yeah, it doesn't kill you, makes you stofer why
we are so you know, unfortunately it's not you know,
I think we're lucky in spite of our experience, we've
been able to thrive. But since I've posted this video,
I've gotten people messaging me saying, hey, my little brother
(10:40):
went and guess what. He committed suicide the minute he
got out. And so many kids that aren't able to
cope as I guess as well as we did. I mean,
I didn't cope very well through it. You know. The
first few years I drank until I was blind. So, um,
you know, that's no way to live and um, and
I don't know if it necessarily I mean, yeah, sure
we we we can grow from this and become stronger,
(11:02):
but there there's some scarring and um, and that's the
hand that we're dealt, you know. Now, it's just our
job to try our best to to to fix all
that as best as we can um. You know, I don't.
I don't want to be a victim. I don't want
to be uh, live a traumatized life. And I don't
(11:22):
want you to have insomnia, you know, like you do
and UM, you don't deserve that. Nobody does. UM. And
so now it's just a matter of like what do
we do to repair that? And you know what, And
it is a beautiful thing to get a lot of
people messaging I'm sure you're you're getting the same thing
saying like, man, you know, I'm so glad I'm not alone.
And and it's pretty scary how many people. I mean,
(11:44):
even in my comments, I was like, there's such a
high percentage of people that have experienced this UM and
that's probably why it's such a profitable industry. Unfortunately, they
are making money off the abuse of children. And yeah,
it needs to stop. That's why we're all coming together. Yeah,
(12:07):
i'd love to hear I've already heard your story, but
to the new listeners listening right now, could you please
tell me your story in any of the most traumatic
experiences that you're experienced or you saw having others. I mean,
it's a lot, so I won't take up too much
time trade to concise as much as possible. But UM,
(12:28):
you know, basically the reason that my parents sought out
this type of help was because when I was fifteen, UM,
I had already started tattooing, and I dropped out of
high school. UM, which is not something that you know,
you any parent desires for their child. And so UM
then being you know, quite conservative and very like religious
folks like, they just were terrified. And so we had
(12:51):
been going to a family therapist at the time, and UM, she,
without my knowledge, recommended that they put me in this place.
I'm sure she got a cut for this, you know.
I mean I hold her just as responsible as the
other places. UM. But UM, so my parents, I don't
I don't think they realized that they were literally signing
away their rights and my rights. UM. I mean this
(13:15):
is I don't. I don't know how this can be legal.
And UM, just like you, I had, UM, two men
and a female show up in my bedroom while I
was asleep. I don't know what time it was, it
was in the middle of the night, and UM threatened
that if I if I wasn't calm, if I resisted
in any way, they would handcuff me and so I
(13:36):
didn't resist. But then once the plane landed in Utah,
UM they blindfolded me when they put me into a car,
and so I have I had no idea where I was.
And once we arrived and got admitted UM, they did
a strip search and UM, which which I feel was
pretty unnecessary considering they just kidnapped me in the middle
(14:00):
of the night and watched me dress. But but I
think that's all part of it, you know. I think
that that the the degrading and the making you feel
powerless and small is really all part of this weird
power trip UM. So, like I said before, for the
next six months, I did not see the sun, I
didn't go outside UM, and we were forced to uh
(14:25):
follow these really crazy rules, everything from you know, not
talking out of line and UH to standing in formation
for hours on end. And the punishments were were extremely
cruel and strange. I mean, some of the more mild
things would be to be sitting on a chair facing
a wall for hours on end, UM. But then some
of the more extreme punishments would be you know, drugs, sedation.
(14:49):
They would inject you, usually in the butt with UM
with something that makes you a complete zombie. And uh
later you could be put to solitary confinement and um,
you know, that was one of the things watching your
documentary that was extremely triggering to me because in my mind,
you know, they obviously don't let you take photos in there,
(15:11):
but I could draw that room and seeing it come
to life even through an animation in that documentary, um,
oh man, it just brought back smells and just um
it's triggers. But um, so yeah, so so um. There
there was a lot of other violent stuff that happened,
(15:33):
and thankfully I was spared of of the physical abuse,
but I definitely saw it with other kids and um,
and then also amongst themselves and you know, they they
would be find places to not be as supervised. And
I saw some pretty traumatic things that are so graphic
that I don't think I should ever say them out loud,
(15:55):
but I'm sure you can attest to the same experience. Um.
And then obviously just being completely cut off from your
family the entire time. My experience was probably a little
different than yours because my parents put me in there
because they were terrified of the tattoo world, you know,
and I don't blame them. At the time, there was
no TV shows, there was you know, all you the
(16:15):
perspectivective on tattooing was really just about like hoodlums and
you know, you're either a hooker or in a gang
or something terrible, and so that, you know, they were
terrified and they didn't realize it was just a form
of self expression. So when I got admitted that that
was one of the things that they wanted to cure
me from UM and so the the I don't know
(16:36):
whose idea it was, but at one point the counselor
set me aside and basically told me that I had
contracted HIV from a tattoo. And this was after they
take your blood and a stool testament. You're in test
and all that, and so you're sitting there with somebody
who you think is qualified, who absolutely has zero credentials,
and they're telling you news like this as a fifteen
(16:57):
year old, I mean, I was, you know, I can't
even believe that that happened. And when I did get
admitted out, I was never told that wasn't that that
was just a joke, that that was false. I went
through my entire life up until I got tested again.
You know, at the age of seventeen or eighteen, and uh,
(17:18):
and then realized that, Okay, cool, I I'm gonna be okay.
But it's a it's a complete, you know, psychological awful
thing to do to somebody. And I wasn't the only one,
you know, I was in one of the girls that
I was in there with Ashley. She she experienced some
of the same things where they, you know, told her
(17:39):
she had a disease that she didn't have in order
to scare her from doing something else. And UM, there's
no way this is legal. You know. Since then, I
have looked up the counselor that was in charge of
my case, and UM, I don't wish anybody poorly. I
really don't, not even my worst enemies, but that man, Um,
(18:00):
the fact that she's still working with children is horrific
to me. And UM, a part I guess a desire
or wish for me would be that somehow she would
be held accountable for what she's done as well. UM,
I mean there were plenty of counselors there that were awful,
but UM remember all their names. Yeah, they'll be held
(18:23):
accountable and they're going to be exposed. I'm not going
to say their names. Right now. But yeah, and it's
hard because you know, you don't want to live this
life full of like rage and revenge like I I don't,
you know, I've worked so hard my life to live
like a happy, positive life and this was something that
was tragic and it happened. But I'm just so grateful
to you that you have just shined a huge light
(18:45):
on this, because I don't know if I would have
necessarily had the courage to do it if you hadn't.
So I just want to say thanks for that. And
I'm sure everybody else feels the same way. Thank you.
I'm so happy that you are helping me shine a
light on this because we're just so lucky that we
have these platforms where we have a voice, and a
lot of the people they they don't have that voice,
(19:08):
and they've been called liars and they've not been believed
to the fact that we both are coming together is
so validating to them and they're finally being believed and
it's it's such a healing thing and it's empowering so
many and this community we love you guys, we see survivors,
We support you, we stand with you, and this community
(19:30):
is so amazing and loving. Like I was reading your
comments after the video you posted on Instagram TV and
I was just like crime, just reading all the stories,
how much love and support. It's really incredible. Yeah, yeah,
most definitely. I guess the last thing I'm gonna I
just wanted to say before I leave is just to
to the parents out there that are watching this if
(19:51):
if you know, if if you've been recommended these schools, Um,
they are extremely manipulative. I mean I posted to to
tell followers to co check out their Yelp reviews, and
then moments later they made it to where you can't
read them anymore. But if you were to have read
all the testimonials, you would be in in a complete
(20:11):
state of horror. And so I think just to do
your due diligence whenever you're looking into getting or seeking
help for you for your child, um, don't just fall
for whatever marketing that these these huge companies have. And
so um, yeah, I think I'm hoping. I mean that
that's truly where where the power is in right now
(20:31):
is is educating parents and knowing that there there are
other options. There is other options, there's other places that
don't do this, but there's so many places that do.
It's it's mind blowing. Yeah. I want to thank you
so much, of course, Sonka. I'm sending you so much
love and I'm so grateful for you and you're using
(20:53):
your voice and continuing mutual Yeah, and thanks for having me.
Thank you. Katherine McNamara is a survivor who has overcome
(21:29):
so much. She speaks often about how activism is what
gave her focus and allowed her to deal with her trauma.
In the past year, there's been tremendous, tremendous movement forward
as far as changes in laws, UH, largely due to
(21:49):
not only the work that Paris Hilton has done with
her documentary, but also the organization breaking code silence. And
there's actually quite a long history of activism and advocacy
in the survivors space UM that spans back um a
couple of decades at least. So can you tell us
(22:10):
how did you become involved in the activism space around
T t I facilities and and team residential centers. In
two thousands seventeen, when I, like I was waking up
all over again, I joined like a Facebook support group
and like I just had this like fire under my butt,
So like I work in like cybersecurity UM, which just
(22:34):
kind of like, I mean, I didn't join cybersecurity because
like provocanean school, but it's just kind of ironic because like,
you know, they wanted me to play on the computer
lesson now I just make you know, I do that
for a living. So I joined that community and I
noticed that like, uh, you know, like no I knew
how to do records, polls and very analytical and stuff
like that. So I started like like digging in. Like
(22:55):
I think a lot of times when people like wake up,
they start to like research like the industry and like
the people that hurt them and stuff like that. And
I started seeing like how everything kind of tied together.
And I befriended a couple like really really good people
who I'm like still friends with his day, who kind
of took me under their wing, and like I kind
of bounced stuff off of them, and as I like woke,
(23:16):
like I found stuff like I would like posted in
the groups like oh my, like look at this, Like
so I learned that like really quickly, if I do
like uh holes of records from like court cases, I
could get some of the evidence too, And like I
was starting to find like evidence of byb It's not
just we remember it being abusive, but here's stuff that
we you know, uh, stuff that's really abusive. Like here's
(23:37):
proof that it happened. Um. And as like I dug
into it further and further, I was like, you know,
you know, I started getting more organized with other people.
Um and you know, like I think I was doing
kind of like guerilla activism, and then the Pair Silton
documentary came along, and um, you know, like that's I
think when we started formally getting uh more like organized.
(24:00):
Just because of that, Like you know, there's just gonna
be this this big things coming that's going to be
a lot of momentum. Let's go ahead and use that
to like try to make the most growth. Like you know,
the gorilla stuff works really well, and he's like you know,
like pop up little like activism projects. But the reality
is to stop an industry this powerful, you do need
to have like a multilayered approach like research. You need
(24:23):
to have investigation, you have to have legislation and regulation
like that. You can't just you can't just protests like
and and expect that this multi billion dollar industry to
go away or get regulated. You need to actually have
some sort of formal organization and uh and you know
(24:43):
more than just like your rag tag team of like
three friends. Um, Like last weekend, I was working on
a timeline of like T T I events and so
like there's this like a whole like fifty years of
really depressing events. See do provocane in school, like you know,
you know j r C things coming out. But like
in the last like two years, there's been some really
(25:05):
momentous like like improvement. There's like a Montana bill that
passed in two thousand nineteen that moved the oversight over
to DHS. There was the UTAHS seven, there was the
Missouri's bills, There's organ bills, and there's like you know,
it's this long progression of like depressing to like really
optimistic that when like I don't I think that we're
(25:26):
in this great like time to change what like what
people think of as far as like adolescent care, congregate care. Uh.
And I think that the public is starting to see that,
you know, the nineteen sixties psychology it doesn't really work
like that, the version therapy, attack therapy, Like we need
to change how we treat these kids that are in
(25:46):
these programs. So, like we talked about a little bit earlier,
when This Is Paris premiered, there was this overwhelming swell
of survivors who came onto social media telling their own story,
(26:10):
both at pro Vocainian School and every single other program
within the United States, and Paris felt so connected to
this community, a community that she's never felt connected to before,
and so she really felt like she wanted to do
something tangible. She wanted to be with the survivor community
in person. So that's when we decided to partner with
(26:30):
Breaking Coach Silence and host a survivor rally outside of
pro Vocanian School so that we could show all of
the students still in there that there were people fighting
for them on the outside, and even for those of
us who didn't go to pro Vocanian School. Provo in
Utah in and of itself, had really kind of become
the figurehead of the industry. So when we got the
(26:52):
message that we were having this rally, me and at
least ten other people that I had seen in over
fifteen years all migrated to Utah and this was the
first time I was actually introduced to this community in person,
and seeing the numbers of people who showed up in Utah.
People drove for twelve hours to get there. They flew
(27:15):
in from Alaska, and we really had representation across the
entire United States. And to see everybody stand together, holding hands,
holding up signs, it really was just remarkable. I can't
tell you how many times I cried during that trip.
It was highly emotional and also deeply deeply validating to
(27:36):
what we had all experienced. And that's when we met,
and that's really when we started this journey together, which
I'm so grateful for. So let's talk to Paris about
what it was like for her. So what was it
like standing outside of pro Volcanian School of the Girls
campus when you went over there with the people that
you had been in the facility with? What were you thinking?
(27:58):
I was just it felt so good just to be
outside those doors and to know that they were terrified,
because right when where we landed at the airport, they're like, yeah,
they called the police, like they were like literally trying
to like still control us, even though they were like
adults out there, And it just made me feel really
(28:20):
good to know, like I was hoping because I know
that they're very weird about the kids looking outside the window.
But I was hoping that, like they were, the kids
in there were seeing that, or that maybe someone on
a higher level would see it on TV or something,
just to know that that I was out there and
we were all there together fighting for them and what
(28:41):
they put myself into so many others through. They deserve
that and so much more. They deserve to be in prison.
What are your hopes for the future of this movement?
I just look forward to continuing all of our work
together and passing our federal bill, and I want, you know,
(29:02):
these places to be safer for kids, and for all
the abuses that have happened to myself and so many
others to be illegal, and then to take this to
an international level, so you know, this is a not
just happening in the United States. This is happening all
around the world, and no child should have to suffer
like this and be traumatized. It's just it needs to stop.
(29:28):
If you could think back, what type of support did
you need at the time. I just feel like with parents,
instead of just going you know and speaking to someone
you hardly know and then sending your kids away just
to I feel like if my parents would have just
(29:48):
spoke to me and talked to me, and I could
have explained to them that, you know, I just wanted
to be able to go out for a little bit
that I don't know that is feel like I didn't
do anything like wrong to go there, so it's hard
to describe what I would need. I just feel like
I just hope that any parents listening to this can
(30:10):
understand that sending your kids to these places is the
worst possible thing that you could ever do. And any
of these places, they'll still lie and say they're good,
but they're not. Um. So yeah, I don't know. I
feel like it's just important just to speak with your
kids and let them know that you love them and
(30:32):
support them and and try to speak with them in
that way and not you know, I have them kidnapped
in the middle of the night and taken to the
scariest place in the world. And what I hear you
saying to which I think is such an important part
of this movement. Like I always say that we're doing
legislative change, which is incredible, but we're also creating cultural change,
(30:55):
which is even more challenging. But it's like you're a
teeny r that's what we do, right, Like, that's when
you're in your adolescence, you're discovering your independence. You're going
to push the boundaries. And so I think that there's
so many parents that either get terrified from this kind
of behavior or they just want to quite honestly like
(31:15):
control their kids and they can't deal with it and
they don't want to deal with or they have other
priorities or like, you know, whatever is going on. Um.
You know, every family has their own issues. But it's
like we have to as parents. You know. Now I've
got two kids, and we've got one on the way
in November. Uh, how can I as a parent like
(31:36):
actually provide for them in that kind of a way
and understand as they start to get older? O. Our
girl is fourteen, you know, and so she's starting to
do the teenager and stuff. And I think that's such
a huge, huge part of it. Yeah, I think, like
I can imagine too, like when I have kids, I'm
gonna want to be protective of them as well. But
(31:57):
I would I now know what these places are like,
I would I would never a billion years ever do that. Um.
But yeah, I think it's important for parents to understand
that all teenagers all, but most you know, they become
a little bit of a rebel because they're just like
feeling like they're a little bit grown up or whatever.
(32:18):
And I think when you're too strict with them, that's
when they will rebel even more if you don't let
them do anything. So I think it's just good to
like give a balance and maybe give some rules and like, okay,
you have to come home at this whatever curfew. I
don't know. There's just so many other ways to deal
with it than just sending them away, for sure. So
(32:43):
if you had the opportunity to get on the phone
with a kid who is currently at Provocani in school,
what would you tell them? I would say, I've been there,
I know exactly how you feel, and I'm so sorry
that you are having to go through this because I
(33:05):
know how painful and terrifying it is. Well, I want
you to know that I am out here with all
of a huge group of amazing people who are all
standing up for you, and we're doing everything in our
power to get this place shut down, change the rule,
anything just to make it better or to not exist
(33:28):
anymore so that you don't have to go through this anymore.
And that things are gonna be okay one day, and
just to be strong because it's going to be the
hardest thing that you're ever going to go through in
your life. But one day you'll be out and we'll
be happy hopefully. Well yeah, we are so so grateful
(33:54):
for you for a million one reasons, but particularly for
sort of allowing us to be on this journey with
you and to fight beside you. Has been the greatest
year of my life, the most impactful, the most purposeful,
and you know is is setting us up for a
(34:16):
life full of activism in this space, because I think
the minute anyone obviously survivors understand this, but the minute
anybody starts to understand what's happening for their kids, you
can really no longer turn a blind eye. It would
be impossible. And so that's the goal. Let's get everybody
to understand how bad these places are and and make
(34:37):
that final push to closing them down. No, I love you,
girls and so happy and proud to have you buy
my side, and just what we've done is truly amazing,
and this is just the beginning. We love you too, Paris,
and we're so happy to be on this ride with you,
(34:58):
but we're not done because the tree industry is far
larger than just pro Vocanian school. It's a national and
international trend. We don't plan to stop here because it's
not the only one. I mean, it's just it's replicated
and it's it's replicated by the UHS programs, it's replicated
by sequel programs, it's replicated by a Kadia program. Next
(35:19):
time on trapped in Treatment
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