The Vail School District in Arizona has been forced to add extra security to protect teachers and students at Cienega High School after they posted a picture to their Facebook page showing a math teachers’ group Halloween costume. It was meant as a math joke, t-shirts that looked like they had blood stains on them with the words “Problem Solved” on the front, but it was interpreted by Charlie Kirk’s own organization, Turning Point USA, as mocking their late founder’s assassination. Even after the district posted an explanation and photographic proof that the teachers had worn the same costume the year before, some conservative activists and prominent national leaders doubled down, posting the teachers’ names, phone numbers and demanding they be fired. The school has had more than 3-thousand hateful messages, including death threats, with the school superintendent asking for better understanding.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, there're folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It is Tuesday, November the eleventh, and a group of
teachers is getting death threats. They've had to update security
on their school campus. Even a state official is demanding
that this group of teachers be fired. And get this
all because everybody is wrong. And with that, welcome to
(00:27):
this episode of Amy and TJ. All of this happening,
folks and robes because a mistake was made, mistakenly identified
them as doing something wrong. It catches fire, goes everywhere,
and nobody wants to come back and now admit we
made a mistake, We apologize.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
This story is appalling, and the more you get into
the details of it, it's such a sad statement of
where we are in this country when it comes to politics,
when it comes to understanding, when it comes to keeping
an open mind, giving peace people grace and recognizing that
maybe it's dangerous to jump to conclusions.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
This is and you'll hear these details, really, Roades, I
had not seen this make a lot of headlines before now,
and you're the one that brought it to my attention.
So I'm not sure how many people are aware of
what's going on, but this is happening out in Arizona
in particular, and it's connected to the death of Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So a group of math teachers at an Arizona high
school decided to put together a Halloween costume.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
And that Halloween.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Costume that was worn by this group of math teachers
led to a teacher saying he was so scared he
hid in his bathroom to cry so his wife wouldn't
see him cry. There was extra sheriff's deputies on campus
all week. The front office received phone calls with people
yelling things like are you ready to mother effing die
(02:00):
over a Halloween costume? Because someone saw a picture of
these teachers that was posted to the school's Facebook page
and said they are mocking Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
All right.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
To be clear, the shirts folks look like, and the
makeup they're dressed kind of like zombies, all right. They're
just kind of dirty shirts. They say problem solved on it,
and it has bloodstained for the most part. From what
I can tell, robes on the left side of the
shirt on the person's left the left arm, if you will,
is what they look like. So they're supposed to be
some kind of zombie. These are math teachers. So problem
(02:33):
solved was supposed to be a nod to math problems.
That is what the shirt looked like. It was posted
somewhere and it was misinterpreted. Correctcuse me, it was interpreted
absolutely wrongly and then spread and caught fire. When you're
talking about we have seen robes, people fired and threatened
(02:56):
and etc. For mocking the death of Charlie Kirk. So
what happened Charlie Kirk's own organization? I think robes probably
are the ones that really got this going, that is correct.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So this turning point. USA spokesperson Andrew Colvid he tweeted
that the teachers in that photo deserve to be famous
and fired. Now he since deleted that post, but it
accrued nearly ten million views. Damage done, Damage done. And
(03:32):
here's to me what even bothered me the most when
the district, the school district realized what was happening. The
school principal talks about waking up to a flood of
messages and being mortified because this of course wasn't the
intent of the Halloween costume, and they were trying to
do damage control. So they put out a statement saying
this had nothing to do with Charlie Kirk. This was
(03:53):
our teachers enjoying Halloween. They were wearing those T shirts
in the spirit of a zombie run that the school
was putting on later in the day, So they were
being zombies and they thought they had a math joke,
so they put that out there. And then here's the
really egregious part, I believe in turning Point. USA SPOKESPSID
Andrew Colovitt then took the district statement, posted it and
(04:18):
said he'd be relieved if they didn't intend to reference Kirk,
but that he didn't think everyone in the photo was innocent,
and he said teachers have been among the worst defenders
of mocking and celebrating Charlie's assassination, so he kept it
going even though the district gave a very innocent explanation
(04:40):
as to what the photo actually was showing.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I know though, everybody connected and that entire organization is
going to be hurting for quite some time for what
happened to Charlie Kirk. I just wish a cooler and
more sensible head could prevail and to give a little
grace that it's possible that initially the fure the the
outraids you had was wrong because you didn't have all
(05:06):
the information, and that's okay. But instead of we didn't
acknowledge that, we have to say yeah, okay, but still
I bet some of them were. And so you're still
a sign you're actually doubling now you have it all,
and you're doubling down on these being people who are
celebrating the death of this man. That is this we
can't we're getting We're never gonna get anywhere. This is
(05:29):
so upsetting that we just can't take a beat. They're
getting death threats. If you want to say they were
stupid and should have maybe assumed, I might start with
that conversation, but I'd still push back, say, hey, you
got on white T shirts, bold letters on it looks
like some blood down one side. Hmm, maybe somebody might, Hey,
(05:49):
just the head's up somebody maybe if you want to
make that argument. But rodes after hearing, oh have we
even said the big part? They can prove these were
the same damn Halloween costumes from last year.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And even when they did and posted a picture of
those same teachers wearing those same T shirts from the
year before, people said don't believe it.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
It's AI. It's a fake.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So even when you have photographic evidence proving that this
was not related to Charlie Kirk, it couldn't have been
if they had these T shirts and wore them the
year prior, and still people say they fake the time stamp.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
It's a fake photo.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
So you can't even convince people that it isn't connected
when you have photographic evidence that it is not connected.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I pray everybody listening, we got to do better and give.
At some point, you have to believe something in front
of you and not just the lane you have chosen.
We are so sure that if this is happening on
this side, and this has happened on the side, then I.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Have to stick with my group.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
There's no way I could concede that I was wrong
or concede something to the other side. I have to double, triple,
quadruple down. And this is getting people hurt. These teachers
are being threatened. Who knows how far it's going to go.
But there is proof that they fine made a mistake
and shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Have worn them this year. Maybe it was in poor taste.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Let's go with that, but we have to give teachers
grace when we see we know they did not buy
these last year in anticipation of an assassination. They've had
these shirts for a year.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And look, most of these teachers who are in this
photo are not comfortable enough putting their names out with
any sort of commentary. But we have heard anonymously they
have spoken and said several of the teachers in that
photo are Charlie Kirk supporters. Several of the teachers in
that photo voted for Trump. So they were trying to say,
(07:48):
trust us, we had zero mal intent and we certainly
aren't against Kirk or the Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Is that message ever going to be amplified loud than
those first ten million likes or whatever it was spreading
this story. Are you ever going to be loud enough?
And even if you are, is the response going to
be the same one we're getting from turning point now?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, you can't take the toothpaste out of the I
can't put it back in the two.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
You can't put it back in the tube.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You can't culverhead an option of doing so.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Say hey, folks, heads up, need you to know this.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
But this wasn't the most egregious one to me, there
is a state official there robes this was the one
when I saw it, like you have a different public responsibility.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yes, Arizona State Representative Rachel Keshel, she's a Republican from Tucson,
and the first thing she posted on X when she
saw the district's response, she saw the fact that there
was another photo. She said, I am not buying this
BS story one bit. And she even said her daughter
graduated from that very high school the year before, and
(09:02):
her daughter told her those teachers never wore those Halloween
costumes the year before.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
That's what she's going with, right, so she knows better
and the principal is lying. The photo from last year
is a timestam. All of these things are AI. So
what do we do. We believe a kid who was
in high school there who may be heard possibly something
and she saw every and remembers every Halloween costume from
every teacher last year is her basis. This was my
(09:30):
problem with the statement from this state representatives. I must
firmly reject any attempts to downplay this incident as mere
math problem solving attire recycles from last year. So what
she said is okay, fine, even if it is from
last year, you still shouldn't be wearing that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Correct, Like, there is.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
No answer for this other than you all are wrong
because we say so. There is no room for conversation.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
She wants all of these teachers fired. She's demanding that
they all be fired. And look, some folks took it
even further. A conservative commentator on x posted the photo
alongside the names and phone numbers of all the teachers.
Guess how many views that post received? Twenty million views?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Okay, political violence, right.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
And this is the irony of all ironies.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
In an effort to be upset and try to point
the finger at people who incite political violence, people on
the other side are inciting political violence.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
The claim will be, we just want you to hound
these people, get them fired right in, make sure you
hurt their businesses. That's the idea of it's to think
that some people think it just stops there.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
What is that? What we have just expoke?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
We have put a target, literal target on the backs
of teachers and giving you directions.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
To find them.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Correct. Correct, that is.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
What we have done all because we can't just simply say,
you know what, we didn't have all the information we
got it wrong, find it in poor taste. Still, but
these teachers, obviously we're not trying to mock the death
of Charlie Kirk. Now, And how many are there in
that picture?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
It looked like around ten. Yes, I didn't count, but that's.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
A lot of people to get together and say, hey,
let's play this really poor joke.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
And this would have come weeks after they already saw
the firings, the condemnation and the repercussions of so many
other prominent folks who misstep, misspokes, said things they shouldn't have,
tweeted things they shouldn't have. So they already saw the
fallout from all of that in the days immediately after
(11:48):
Charlie Kirk's assassination. So why then would they do that
after having all that? Now it doesn't actually even make sense.
And you know, we talked about some of the reaction.
This wasn't just from Yes, it's very specifically probably got
turned up by turning Point USA. But when you have
the Florida governor weighing in, when you have a Senator
(12:11):
from Utah weighing in, when you have a founder of
a political group for students that has a million followers,
weighing in.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
These are all prominent names who have a lot of.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Followers, who people believe and rely on for real and
true information.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They're telling them what to do. They're telling them to
be outraged, and they're telling them to go after these people.
And they're telling them that it's okay to do so
because we are interpreting what they did as completely wrong
and they deserve no grace. Also, don't explain, they don't
even deserve us listening to their explanation.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That is how debate is taking place in this country.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know what's fascinating to me, So I mentioned Florida
Governor Ron DeSantis. He initially posted on x that these
teachers were glorifying a murder. Then he later posted the
district statement of course, explaining what the photo actually was.
And he's said people can quote decide for themselves. And
(13:04):
then when reporters have followed up and said, hey, now
that you know more about the story, you know, what
do you have to say about the situation, and his
representatives referred them to his comments on Twitter, and he
refused to say anything else. And then we have I
think one of the scary things is when you have
representatives and people in power and places of respect. When
they are calling into question the integrity of a school
(13:28):
district a principle and saying everyone's lying to cover it up.
It's just sowing these seeds of complete and total distrust
in anyone and everyone, and that's.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Chaos in any institution. Don't believe it because we say
don't believe it. This isn't This is just an unreasonable
story to me. Now, it's unreasonable, and it's highlights how
we have debate in this country. You know, we hate
We go out of our way to make sure we
don't criticize. People have their feelings on whatever side or
(13:59):
the other.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That maybe they were initially upset or maybe something in
the back of their mind things right, that they were
trying to mock this person that they loved and the
death of this person that they love. I try to
leave some room for that. This is just not one
of those situations where it's up for interpretation. Necessarily. We
know they did not put these outfits together to mock
(14:27):
the death of Charlie Kirk like we know that, and
there's reasonable doubt even of what the other side is saying.
That's enough for us to pump the brakes and not
send armies of outraged, emotional people their way. I hate
(14:48):
this story so much. This is devastating about our political discourse.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I hate you know, this is a small town in Arizona,
a tight knit community, and when you start to read
the for reports, I mean all last week, the students
were scared to go to school. Half the teachers in
that photo didn't show up for the first couple of days.
They were so scared to come to school. There were
threats and rumors that snipers were going to be taking
(15:14):
out students, taking out teachers. In an era of political
violence and school shootings and all of the.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Just unbelievably.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Violent vitriol we have, can we take a step back
and recognize that these folks are scared to go to work,
kids are scared to go to school. The learning process
is being disrupted for what.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
They don't seem to care because they think it is
a more just cause they have, which is to get
these people fire, to draw attention to these people. That's school,
that school, just to send people to their homes for
whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
That is.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Justification or what they believe, and what they believe just happens.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
To be wrong. They made a mistake.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You didn't have all the information, Like we gotta be
big enough to say oops and understand your responsibility as
leaders to bring the temperature down. The Santas had the information,
the state lawmaker has the information, but she still keeps
doubling down. Such costumes aren't harmless fun. They normalize the
(16:28):
unthinkable political assassination because she won't just say, you know what,
these are Arizona citizens. I represent them as well. I'm
gonna go have a conversation with them and maybe we
can come to a better place that is leadership.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Her daughter went to that high school.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
She knows these teachers.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Yes, that blows my mind.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
And we mentioned the conservative commentator who posted the names
and phone numbers. Okay, how about a senator, a Republican
from Utah, Senator Mike Lee also posted the teachers names
and phone numbers and said, anyone else think this might
be the best advertisement ever for school choice and homeschooling.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Okay, so you're telling me now, this is what we
do us, Senator, We ain't got many of them.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
These are a prestigious job.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And he is saying this is okay to dock.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
It's really hard It makes me feel sick thinking about
where our country is right now. Our government is shut down,
folks aren't getting paid. It's incredibly difficult to see that
this is still going on in the midst of all
of that. So obviously we talked about how the district
tried to show that they had a photo proving that
(17:52):
this wasn't a Halloween costume based solely on Charlie Kirk's asassination.
It had nothing to do with it, and that's because
they had worn it the year before. But we know
what the math department was actually considering wearing for their
Halloween costumes. And when you hear this story, it makes
this whole thing feel even more frustratingly senseless, stupid. And
(18:19):
we want you to stay tuned for this part of
the story and and and continuing our conversation about what's
going on in the state of Arizona. And certainly it's
become a national story where these group of math teachers
(18:40):
in Arizona put on a Halloween costume for the second
year in a row, but this year, in the wake
of the Charlie Kirk assassination, it was misinterpreted and then
it became something that just is difficult to watch and
witness where we have teachers afraid to go to work,
students afraid to go to school, and teachers' names, phone
(19:03):
numbers put out for folks who are angry at this
picture to put out messages of hate violence. I mean,
it really is just a disturbing and escalating situation. The
temperature has not come down because the state lawmakers and
lawmakers around the country who want to believe that this
(19:26):
was politically motivated, they're not backing down despite the proof
that it wasn't. So the math department actually put out
that they were going to do a group costume this
year based on the gen Alpha the word of the
year six seven, and they thought that would be fun.
But they decided to not have this more probably timely
(19:49):
Halloween costume out because they didn't want to spend more money.
They wanted to save their high school and their school
district money, so they decided to reuse the same Halloween
costume they had from last year.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So teachers were doing their jobs. Everybody knows a big
part of being a teacher that is being very frugal,
being very resourceful, and making money stretch. So they were
actually in the process of being good teachers. As all
this happened to him, that just adds to the story.
Nobody's gonna believe that either. I guess that's just gonna
that just adds another element to the holy hell to
(20:23):
this story. It's it's just a shame. I hated for
those teachers. I hated for that district, that area, that
even for the state of Arizona at this point, to
see to see how they are leading the way almost
in this story on in the opposite direction of what
(20:48):
we were hoping they were going to lead us. And
that includes turning point USA, continuing on that legacy of debate,
of discourse, of continuing that on. Absolutely we just saw.
We are so offended at what happened to Charlie Kirk.
It's all because he was saying something. So let's all
bring the temperature down. You remember all that, You remember
(21:10):
that memorial service? Did they get up time after time?
I know they pointed some political fingers, but wasn't that
more of a commitment, right? We all try the words
matter that we all both sides left right, and I
know they tried to blame each other, but still we agreed.
We all agreed that this isn't what we need to
keep doing, And yet here we are, they sick demond teachers.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Who are still now fearing for their lives and fearing
for their famili's safety because of a Halloween costume that
had no mal intent. They actually won a costume contest
with those same T shirts the year before, and so
they thought, you know, they were good enough for last year.
We wanted the whole contest, the costume contest with these
(21:54):
T shirts. Let's just wear them again.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
The school superintendent put a statement that I actually really
appreciated and it goes in line with what you're saying, babe.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
And I think that maybe, man, if.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
The lawmakers who are holding firm and doubling down on
their initial reaction to that photo, if they could just
take what the school superintendent said to heart, maybe they
could have a change of heart.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
He said, this horrific loop of.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Flinging pooh and insults at others who we think disagree
with us will never be broken online or via a
phone call or via an email. It's only going to
be broken by stepping out and meeting our neighbors. What
if the head of Turning Point usay, what if some
(22:48):
of these senators and lawmakers and conservative commentators actually went
and met with these teachers.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Would they walk away.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Feeling and thinking and saying the same things they are now?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The leader in this situation should not be the local
school superintendent. We got, we got centers, us senators involved.
There should be different and bigger voices. But I hope
I pray they do listen and some cooler heads can
prevail and this now turn into maybe maybe this is
a reason for this robes and this ends up being
(23:22):
a bigger story as a bigger show of support and understanding,
and maybe it can become something bigger, because right now
it's just a disappointment. I hope it's this is not
just you know, when you get politicians involved on something
like this, it's these are fundraising moves for them, right
They're firing up their people, they're firing up their base.
They got elections to win. I hope it's not just
just that over some teachers. That Senator Lee thing is
(23:45):
their names and numbers and addresses. That's that's that's that's tough.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I actually had to reread it and make sure that
I saw it for what it was, and that is
just a sad and appalling state of where we are.
But look, yes, the school superintendent is leading the way,
and perhaps he can shine a light or shed some
light on what is going on, and maybe one of
(24:10):
these politicians will step up and say, I got it wrong.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
What do you think the chances of that are.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I will stay optimistic today because we don't everybody else's
We're down enough. We've got enough stuff to be down about.
Let me be upbeating optimistic about this one, but really
thinking about you all out there in Arizona, and.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You will play this.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I encourage everybody, and I do this all the time.
Just give it a beat before your initial emotion is outrage,
don't lead with that. Just a little investigation doesn't even
take long. A quick Google search and you can find out,
Oh that's not what I thought it was. We've seen
it time and time again. I always go back to
Princess Kate and everybody. Miss Ray had celebrities apologizing for
(24:54):
things they said about her, that whole photo thing. Oh yeah,
by the way, yeah, oh she has cancer.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
You know, Just give it a beat, give people a little.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Grace, and do a little investigation, and maybe maybe you'll
find out there's a there's no justification for your initial outrage.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I love that and with us everyone. Thank you for
listening to us. We appreciate it, and we appreciate you.
I'm Amy Roebuck alongside t. J.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Holmes. We will talk to you soon.
Hey, there're folks.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
It is Tuesday, November the eleventh, and a group of
teachers is getting death threats. They've had to update security
on their school campus. Even a state official is demanding
that this group of teachers be fired. And get this
all because everybody is wrong. And with that, welcome to
(00:27):
this episode of Amy and TJ. All of this happening,
folks and robes because a mistake was made, mistakenly identified
them as doing something wrong. It catches fire, goes everywhere,
and nobody wants to come back and now admit we
made a mistake, We apologize.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
This story is appalling, and the more you get into
the details of it, it's such a sad statement of
where we are in this country when it comes to politics,
when it comes to understanding, when it comes to keeping
an open mind, giving peace people grace and recognizing that
maybe it's dangerous to jump to conclusions.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
This is and you'll hear these details, really, Roades, I
had not seen this make a lot of headlines before now,
and you're the one that brought it to my attention.
So I'm not sure how many people are aware of
what's going on, but this is happening out in Arizona
in particular, and it's connected to the death of Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So a group of math teachers at an Arizona high
school decided to put together a Halloween costume.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
And that Halloween.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Costume that was worn by this group of math teachers
led to a teacher saying he was so scared he
hid in his bathroom to cry so his wife wouldn't
see him cry. There was extra sheriff's deputies on campus
all week. The front office received phone calls with people
yelling things like are you ready to mother effing die
(02:00):
over a Halloween costume? Because someone saw a picture of
these teachers that was posted to the school's Facebook page
and said they are mocking Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
All right.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
To be clear, the shirts folks look like, and the
makeup they're dressed kind of like zombies, all right. They're
just kind of dirty shirts. They say problem solved on it,
and it has bloodstained for the most part. From what
I can tell, robes on the left side of the
shirt on the person's left the left arm, if you will,
is what they look like. So they're supposed to be
some kind of zombie. These are math teachers. So problem
(02:33):
solved was supposed to be a nod to math problems.
That is what the shirt looked like. It was posted
somewhere and it was misinterpreted. Correctcuse me, it was interpreted
absolutely wrongly and then spread and caught fire. When you're
talking about we have seen robes, people fired and threatened
(02:56):
and etc. For mocking the death of Charlie Kirk. So
what happened Charlie Kirk's own organization? I think robes probably
are the ones that really got this going, that is correct.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So this turning point. USA spokesperson Andrew Colvid he tweeted
that the teachers in that photo deserve to be famous
and fired. Now he since deleted that post, but it
accrued nearly ten million views. Damage done, Damage done. And
(03:32):
here's to me what even bothered me the most when
the district, the school district realized what was happening. The
school principal talks about waking up to a flood of
messages and being mortified because this of course wasn't the
intent of the Halloween costume, and they were trying to
do damage control. So they put out a statement saying
this had nothing to do with Charlie Kirk. This was
(03:53):
our teachers enjoying Halloween. They were wearing those T shirts
in the spirit of a zombie run that the school
was putting on later in the day, So they were
being zombies and they thought they had a math joke,
so they put that out there. And then here's the
really egregious part, I believe in turning Point. USA SPOKESPSID
Andrew Colovitt then took the district statement, posted it and
(04:18):
said he'd be relieved if they didn't intend to reference Kirk,
but that he didn't think everyone in the photo was innocent,
and he said teachers have been among the worst defenders
of mocking and celebrating Charlie's assassination, so he kept it
going even though the district gave a very innocent explanation
(04:40):
as to what the photo actually was showing.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I know though, everybody connected and that entire organization is
going to be hurting for quite some time for what
happened to Charlie Kirk. I just wish a cooler and
more sensible head could prevail and to give a little
grace that it's possible that initially the fure the the
outraids you had was wrong because you didn't have all
(05:06):
the information, and that's okay. But instead of we didn't
acknowledge that, we have to say yeah, okay, but still
I bet some of them were. And so you're still
a sign you're actually doubling now you have it all,
and you're doubling down on these being people who are
celebrating the death of this man. That is this we
can't we're getting We're never gonna get anywhere. This is
(05:29):
so upsetting that we just can't take a beat. They're
getting death threats. If you want to say they were
stupid and should have maybe assumed, I might start with
that conversation, but I'd still push back, say, hey, you
got on white T shirts, bold letters on it looks
like some blood down one side. Hmm, maybe somebody might, Hey,
(05:49):
just the head's up somebody maybe if you want to
make that argument. But rodes after hearing, oh have we
even said the big part? They can prove these were
the same damn Halloween costumes from last year.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And even when they did and posted a picture of
those same teachers wearing those same T shirts from the
year before, people said don't believe it.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
It's AI. It's a fake.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
So even when you have photographic evidence proving that this
was not related to Charlie Kirk, it couldn't have been
if they had these T shirts and wore them the
year prior, and still people say they fake the time stamp.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
It's a fake photo.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
So you can't even convince people that it isn't connected
when you have photographic evidence that it is not connected.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I pray everybody listening, we got to do better and give.
At some point, you have to believe something in front
of you and not just the lane you have chosen.
We are so sure that if this is happening on
this side, and this has happened on the side, then I.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Have to stick with my group.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
There's no way I could concede that I was wrong
or concede something to the other side. I have to double, triple,
quadruple down. And this is getting people hurt. These teachers
are being threatened. Who knows how far it's going to go.
But there is proof that they fine made a mistake
and shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Have worn them this year. Maybe it was in poor taste.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Let's go with that, but we have to give teachers
grace when we see we know they did not buy
these last year in anticipation of an assassination. They've had
these shirts for a year.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And look, most of these teachers who are in this
photo are not comfortable enough putting their names out with
any sort of commentary. But we have heard anonymously they
have spoken and said several of the teachers in that
photo are Charlie Kirk supporters. Several of the teachers in
that photo voted for Trump. So they were trying to say,
(07:48):
trust us, we had zero mal intent and we certainly
aren't against Kirk or the Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Is that message ever going to be amplified loud than
those first ten million likes or whatever it was spreading
this story. Are you ever going to be loud enough?
And even if you are, is the response going to
be the same one we're getting from turning point now?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, you can't take the toothpaste out of the I
can't put it back in the two.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
You can't put it back in the tube.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You can't culverhead an option of doing so.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Say hey, folks, heads up, need you to know this.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
But this wasn't the most egregious one to me, there
is a state official there robes this was the one
when I saw it, like you have a different public responsibility.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yes, Arizona State Representative Rachel Keshel, she's a Republican from Tucson,
and the first thing she posted on X when she
saw the district's response, she saw the fact that there
was another photo. She said, I am not buying this
BS story one bit. And she even said her daughter
graduated from that very high school the year before, and
(09:02):
her daughter told her those teachers never wore those Halloween
costumes the year before.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
That's what she's going with, right, so she knows better
and the principal is lying. The photo from last year
is a timestam. All of these things are AI. So
what do we do. We believe a kid who was
in high school there who may be heard possibly something
and she saw every and remembers every Halloween costume from
every teacher last year is her basis. This was my
(09:30):
problem with the statement from this state representatives. I must
firmly reject any attempts to downplay this incident as mere
math problem solving attire recycles from last year. So what
she said is okay, fine, even if it is from
last year, you still shouldn't be wearing that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Correct, Like, there is.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
No answer for this other than you all are wrong
because we say so. There is no room for conversation.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
She wants all of these teachers fired. She's demanding that
they all be fired. And look, some folks took it
even further. A conservative commentator on x posted the photo
alongside the names and phone numbers of all the teachers.
Guess how many views that post received? Twenty million views?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Okay, political violence, right.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
And this is the irony of all ironies.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
In an effort to be upset and try to point
the finger at people who incite political violence, people on
the other side are inciting political violence.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
The claim will be, we just want you to hound
these people, get them fired right in, make sure you
hurt their businesses. That's the idea of it's to think
that some people think it just stops there.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
What is that? What we have just expoke?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
We have put a target, literal target on the backs
of teachers and giving you directions.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
To find them.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Correct. Correct, that is.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
What we have done all because we can't just simply say,
you know what, we didn't have all the information we
got it wrong, find it in poor taste. Still, but
these teachers, obviously we're not trying to mock the death
of Charlie Kirk. Now, And how many are there in
that picture?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
It looked like around ten. Yes, I didn't count, but that's.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
A lot of people to get together and say, hey,
let's play this really poor joke.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
And this would have come weeks after they already saw
the firings, the condemnation and the repercussions of so many
other prominent folks who misstep, misspokes, said things they shouldn't have,
tweeted things they shouldn't have. So they already saw the
fallout from all of that in the days immediately after
(11:48):
Charlie Kirk's assassination. So why then would they do that
after having all that? Now it doesn't actually even make sense.
And you know, we talked about some of the reaction.
This wasn't just from Yes, it's very specifically probably got
turned up by turning Point USA. But when you have
the Florida governor weighing in, when you have a Senator
(12:11):
from Utah weighing in, when you have a founder of
a political group for students that has a million followers,
weighing in.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
These are all prominent names who have a lot of.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Followers, who people believe and rely on for real and
true information.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They're telling them what to do. They're telling them to
be outraged, and they're telling them to go after these people.
And they're telling them that it's okay to do so
because we are interpreting what they did as completely wrong
and they deserve no grace. Also, don't explain, they don't
even deserve us listening to their explanation.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That is how debate is taking place in this country.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know what's fascinating to me, So I mentioned Florida
Governor Ron DeSantis. He initially posted on x that these
teachers were glorifying a murder. Then he later posted the
district statement of course, explaining what the photo actually was.
And he's said people can quote decide for themselves. And
(13:04):
then when reporters have followed up and said, hey, now
that you know more about the story, you know, what
do you have to say about the situation, and his
representatives referred them to his comments on Twitter, and he
refused to say anything else. And then we have I
think one of the scary things is when you have
representatives and people in power and places of respect. When
they are calling into question the integrity of a school
(13:28):
district a principle and saying everyone's lying to cover it up.
It's just sowing these seeds of complete and total distrust
in anyone and everyone, and that's.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Chaos in any institution. Don't believe it because we say
don't believe it. This isn't This is just an unreasonable
story to me. Now, it's unreasonable, and it's highlights how
we have debate in this country. You know, we hate
We go out of our way to make sure we
don't criticize. People have their feelings on whatever side or
(13:59):
the other.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That maybe they were initially upset or maybe something in
the back of their mind things right, that they were
trying to mock this person that they loved and the
death of this person that they love. I try to
leave some room for that. This is just not one
of those situations where it's up for interpretation. Necessarily. We
know they did not put these outfits together to mock
(14:27):
the death of Charlie Kirk like we know that, and
there's reasonable doubt even of what the other side is saying.
That's enough for us to pump the brakes and not
send armies of outraged, emotional people their way. I hate
(14:48):
this story so much. This is devastating about our political discourse.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I hate you know, this is a small town in Arizona,
a tight knit community, and when you start to read
the for reports, I mean all last week, the students
were scared to go to school. Half the teachers in
that photo didn't show up for the first couple of days.
They were so scared to come to school. There were
threats and rumors that snipers were going to be taking
(15:14):
out students, taking out teachers. In an era of political
violence and school shootings and all of the.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Just unbelievably.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Violent vitriol we have, can we take a step back
and recognize that these folks are scared to go to work,
kids are scared to go to school. The learning process
is being disrupted for what.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
They don't seem to care because they think it is
a more just cause they have, which is to get
these people fire, to draw attention to these people. That's school,
that school, just to send people to their homes for
whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
That is.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Justification or what they believe, and what they believe just happens.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
To be wrong. They made a mistake.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You didn't have all the information, Like we gotta be
big enough to say oops and understand your responsibility as
leaders to bring the temperature down. The Santas had the information,
the state lawmaker has the information, but she still keeps
doubling down. Such costumes aren't harmless fun. They normalize the
(16:28):
unthinkable political assassination because she won't just say, you know what,
these are Arizona citizens. I represent them as well. I'm
gonna go have a conversation with them and maybe we
can come to a better place that is leadership.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Her daughter went to that high school.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
She knows these teachers.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Yes, that blows my mind.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
And we mentioned the conservative commentator who posted the names
and phone numbers. Okay, how about a senator, a Republican
from Utah, Senator Mike Lee also posted the teachers names
and phone numbers and said, anyone else think this might
be the best advertisement ever for school choice and homeschooling.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Okay, so you're telling me now, this is what we
do us, Senator, We ain't got many of them.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
These are a prestigious job.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And he is saying this is okay to dock.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
It's really hard It makes me feel sick thinking about
where our country is right now. Our government is shut down,
folks aren't getting paid. It's incredibly difficult to see that
this is still going on in the midst of all
of that. So obviously we talked about how the district
tried to show that they had a photo proving that
(17:52):
this wasn't a Halloween costume based solely on Charlie Kirk's asassination.
It had nothing to do with it, and that's because
they had worn it the year before. But we know
what the math department was actually considering wearing for their
Halloween costumes. And when you hear this story, it makes
this whole thing feel even more frustratingly senseless, stupid. And
(18:19):
we want you to stay tuned for this part of
the story and and and continuing our conversation about what's
going on in the state of Arizona. And certainly it's
become a national story where these group of math teachers
(18:40):
in Arizona put on a Halloween costume for the second
year in a row, but this year, in the wake
of the Charlie Kirk assassination, it was misinterpreted and then
it became something that just is difficult to watch and
witness where we have teachers afraid to go to work,
students afraid to go to school, and teachers' names, phone
(19:03):
numbers put out for folks who are angry at this
picture to put out messages of hate violence. I mean,
it really is just a disturbing and escalating situation. The
temperature has not come down because the state lawmakers and
lawmakers around the country who want to believe that this
(19:26):
was politically motivated, they're not backing down despite the proof
that it wasn't. So the math department actually put out
that they were going to do a group costume this
year based on the gen Alpha the word of the
year six seven, and they thought that would be fun.
But they decided to not have this more probably timely
(19:49):
Halloween costume out because they didn't want to spend more money.
They wanted to save their high school and their school
district money, so they decided to reuse the same Halloween
costume they had from last year.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So teachers were doing their jobs. Everybody knows a big
part of being a teacher that is being very frugal,
being very resourceful, and making money stretch. So they were
actually in the process of being good teachers. As all
this happened to him, that just adds to the story.
Nobody's gonna believe that either. I guess that's just gonna
that just adds another element to the holy hell to
(20:23):
this story. It's it's just a shame. I hated for
those teachers. I hated for that district, that area, that
even for the state of Arizona at this point, to
see to see how they are leading the way almost
in this story on in the opposite direction of what
(20:48):
we were hoping they were going to lead us. And
that includes turning point USA, continuing on that legacy of debate,
of discourse, of continuing that on. Absolutely we just saw.
We are so offended at what happened to Charlie Kirk.
It's all because he was saying something. So let's all
bring the temperature down. You remember all that, You remember
(21:10):
that memorial service? Did they get up time after time?
I know they pointed some political fingers, but wasn't that
more of a commitment, right? We all try the words
matter that we all both sides left right, and I
know they tried to blame each other, but still we agreed.
We all agreed that this isn't what we need to
keep doing, And yet here we are, they sick demond teachers.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Who are still now fearing for their lives and fearing
for their famili's safety because of a Halloween costume that
had no mal intent. They actually won a costume contest
with those same T shirts the year before, and so
they thought, you know, they were good enough for last year.
We wanted the whole contest, the costume contest with these
(21:54):
T shirts. Let's just wear them again.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
The school superintendent put a statement that I actually really
appreciated and it goes in line with what you're saying, babe.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
And I think that maybe, man, if.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
The lawmakers who are holding firm and doubling down on
their initial reaction to that photo, if they could just
take what the school superintendent said to heart, maybe they
could have a change of heart.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
He said, this horrific loop of.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Flinging pooh and insults at others who we think disagree
with us will never be broken online or via a
phone call or via an email. It's only going to
be broken by stepping out and meeting our neighbors. What
if the head of Turning Point usay, what if some
(22:48):
of these senators and lawmakers and conservative commentators actually went
and met with these teachers.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Would they walk away.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Feeling and thinking and saying the same things they are now?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The leader in this situation should not be the local
school superintendent. We got, we got centers, us senators involved.
There should be different and bigger voices. But I hope
I pray they do listen and some cooler heads can
prevail and this now turn into maybe maybe this is
a reason for this robes and this ends up being
(23:22):
a bigger story as a bigger show of support and understanding,
and maybe it can become something bigger, because right now
it's just a disappointment. I hope it's this is not
just you know, when you get politicians involved on something
like this, it's these are fundraising moves for them, right
They're firing up their people, they're firing up their base.
They got elections to win. I hope it's not just
just that over some teachers. That Senator Lee thing is
(23:45):
their names and numbers and addresses. That's that's that's that's tough.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I actually had to reread it and make sure that
I saw it for what it was, and that is
just a sad and appalling state of where we are.
But look, yes, the school superintendent is leading the way,
and perhaps he can shine a light or shed some
light on what is going on, and maybe one of
(24:10):
these politicians will step up and say, I got it wrong.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
What do you think the chances of that are.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I will stay optimistic today because we don't everybody else's
We're down enough. We've got enough stuff to be down about.
Let me be upbeating optimistic about this one, but really
thinking about you all out there in Arizona, and.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You will play this.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I encourage everybody, and I do this all the time.
Just give it a beat before your initial emotion is outrage,
don't lead with that. Just a little investigation doesn't even
take long. A quick Google search and you can find out,
Oh that's not what I thought it was. We've seen
it time and time again. I always go back to
Princess Kate and everybody. Miss Ray had celebrities apologizing for
(24:54):
things they said about her, that whole photo thing. Oh yeah,
by the way, yeah, oh she has cancer.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
You know, Just give it a beat, give people a little.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Grace, and do a little investigation, and maybe maybe you'll
find out there's a there's no justification for your initial outrage.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I love that and with us everyone. Thank you for
listening to us. We appreciate it, and we appreciate you.
I'm Amy Roebuck alongside t. J.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Holmes. We will talk to you soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders takes you back to 1983, when two teenagers were found murdered, execution-style, on a quiet Texas hill. What followed was decades of rumors, false leads, and a case that law enforcement could never seem to close. Now, veteran investigative journalist M. William Phelps reopens the file — uncovering new witnesses, hidden evidence, and a shocking web of deaths that may all be connected. Over nine gripping episodes, Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders unravels a story 42 years in the making… and asks the question: who’s really been hiding the truth?
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com