No matter where you stand on the death penalty, this is a powerful and personal conversation with a mother who has already lost one son and is about to lose another after they were both convicted of the 2002 robbery and murder of Ronnie Wipf. It’s a tale of two brothers, an imperfect system and the families devastated by a New Year’s Day murder. Linda Wood’s older son, Jake admitted to the actual murder and received life in prison, her younger son Tremane was convicted of the same crime, but received the death penalty. After the Oklahoma pardons and parole board recommended clemency for Tremane last week, Amy and T.J. recorded an entire episode about the case. Now, as his family waits to see if the Governor will follow the board’s recommendation, his mother and two nieces talk about the torturous past few months and the excruciating hours to come, waiting to find out if the man they describe as the glue of their family will be executed on Thursday.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, November the eleventh, and as
of this recording, we are forty eight hours away, less
than forty eight hours away from the execution of inmate
Tremaine Wood in Oklahoma. His family, in particular his mother
and his two young nieces, hugged him for the last
(00:24):
time months ago. They just had no idea that was
possibly going to be the last hug. Welcome everybody to
this episode of Amy and TJ. In Robes, I'm speaking
in particular about Linda Wood, Andreana Wood, and Brooklyn Wood,
the mother and two nieces of Tremaine, who are right
now Robes, holding out hope that Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Won't be the end, and they aren't sleeping, they aren't eating,
and they have experienced every emotion imaginable anticipating what could
possibly happen. No one knows what the governor is going
to decide, and he has until literally the eleventh hour,
moments before the scheduled execution, to make a decision whether
(01:09):
or not to grant Tremaine would clemency.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So you can only imagine, folks, what it's like for
that family right now. But we have covered this story.
Robock and I have been following this story for weeks.
We have a whole episode on the case itself. What
we're talking about a man, Tremain Wood, who is forty
six years old now, who was in his twenties when
he was a part of a robbery that took place
on New Year's Day back in two thousand and two,
(01:33):
a robbery in which a man ended up dead, stabbed
to death. Tremain Would and his brother were the two
who took part in this robbery. There was a back
and forth about who actually was the one who killed
the man, but Tremaine Wood's brother also convicted in this crime.
Robes he got life in prison. Tremaine ends up with
here we are on death row. There's all kinds of
(01:56):
questions and legal questions about the representation that Tremaine Would got,
which by all accounts, I think everybody agrees he did
not get adequate representation. This has led us now to
a clemency hearing that we just heard matter of about
a week ago, in which the clemency Board recommended yes,
in a vote of three to two, his life should
be spared. But that doesn't spare his life Robes. It
(02:17):
means then now the governor and that catches everybody up,
and that leads us to these three women, these three
young ladies that we had a chance to talk to.
We've talked to a lot of people over the years
and covered a lot of cases. I actually count remember
talking to someone this intimately who was this close to
having their loved one killed.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I have never had a conversation like we just had
with these three women who are going through something that
no mother and no family member would ever want to imagine.
And yet to sit down with them and to have
the time with them that we had with them, it
is impossible to not feel for these women to not
(02:54):
feel something for what is state sanctioned murder in this.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
So, folks, we want you to hear from them now.
And look, Robot and I we covered this case. We
pointed out we're not going through all the legalities in
the back and forth and the nuances and the legalities
of this case. This was a matter of talking to
three women who are days away from losing someone who
was possibly the most important person in their lives and
(03:23):
one of the most influential. So here now we want
you to listen to our conversation with Linda Wood, mother
of Tremaine Wood and Andrea and Brooklyn would his.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Nieces, and I imagine you all have in the past
at least week, been non stop. In fact, you were
just at an event for Trumont. Tell me how you're feeling,
what you've been doing, and what life is like right now.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Life for me right now is Tremaine's mother is stress
level one thousand. It is. My heart is so heavy
with the thought that my son could die in less
than two days. So that's kind of how my life
has been for these last few months. He has been
(04:13):
treated so badly at the penitentiary that and you know,
as a mother, the only thing you want to do
when your child is hurting is make it better, and
you can't. So it's been very stressful, very.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Stressful, madam.
Speaker 6 (04:29):
You say stressful, How does one prepare for the death
of their child.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
You don't. You don't prepare. I have tried to play
that scenario over in my mind a million times in
the last twenty one years, because we knew from the
day he was sentenced to death that that was very
real possibility. But my mind won't allow me to even
(04:58):
fathom him not being here any longer. I always go
back to the same thing. This cannot be the end
of my son's story.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You have been sitting with this, living with this for
more than two decades. But as we're speaking to you,
it is Tuesday afternoon, and in forty eight hours or so,
give or take, your sun may be there on death row,
his life about to end in these final forty eight hours.
(05:32):
How do you exist? Do you sleep? Do you rest? No?
Speaker 4 (05:39):
No, I don't sleep.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
I am.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
Mentally, emotionally and physically drained. I'm drained. I'm so tired,
but I can't sleep. It's hard for me to eat.
It's just it's torturous. It's torturous.
Speaker 8 (06:02):
Yeah, I'll definitely agree with Grandma and that one. It's
definitely it's hard to sleep. It's definitely hard. It's hard
to eat that have an appetite when you're sitting there
thinking that the person that you love the most and
you care about the most is going to be gone
in under forty eight hours.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
If this doesn't go the right way.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Brooklyn, why do you.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
There is?
Speaker 6 (06:27):
You just mentioned him as the most important person and
the closest person in your life.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
For folks who aren't aware of.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
That, you as a seventeen year oldly speaking on it,
Why is he that much to you?
Speaker 8 (06:38):
My uncle has made an amazing impact in my life.
He's helped me through multiple mental health crisis that I've
had within myself, and just multiple I used to get
bullied all the time in school and he's always helped
me through that and taught me that my worth isn't
measured by what other people say about me. It's measured
(06:59):
by what I think about myself and what I see
inside myself. And just because people put in bad and
you have to put good out.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
In the world just to receive it back, just because.
Speaker 8 (07:08):
You're not getting it in that moment doesn't mean that
you're never gonna get it.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
You have only known your uncle at seventeen as a
man behind bars, a convicted murderer on death row. And
a lot of people would look at your uncle's story,
his name and think they know and may think he's
a monster, may think he's evil, may think all sorts
of things. How would you describe the uncle you know?
Speaker 8 (07:37):
I would describe my uncle as a loving, caring person.
He pretty much puts you before he will put himself.
He'll give you what he has off his back like
the last shirt he has off his back and give
it to you because you needed it more than he
needed it in that moment. He's such a giving person,
and he'll put anybody before he puts himself, just to
(08:00):
make sure they're okay, or they feel right, or they're
mentally okay, they're doing good.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Out in the world.
Speaker 8 (08:06):
He will always put somebody before him.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Have you and Andreana the other?
Speaker 6 (08:14):
How old are you? Tell me twenty three? Right, yes,
this is your uncle as well. Now tell me what
year were you born?
Speaker 8 (08:21):
Two thousand and two?
Speaker 6 (08:23):
That was the year this crime took place, is it not?
Speaker 9 (08:26):
Yep, I was born a few months after.
Speaker 6 (08:30):
It's wild that that's the case. But how do you
explain to people, Explain to us how you go about
having a relationship, much less a loving and supportive one
with an uncle that you have never gotten a chance
to spend time with outside of a prison.
Speaker 9 (08:50):
I mean it was mostly just through telephone calls and visits.
I mean I've been going to visit him since he'd
been in like the actual county jail, before he before
the trial, before everything. I was she was taking me
as a baby to go visit, and so I've I
(09:11):
always knew about him, and I always got I always
got to talk to him growing up on calls and
everything like that, visits, and he just he's never been
a bad person in my eyes ever. And I mean
even when I got old enough, I I knew, you know,
(09:33):
of course I knew that he was in prison, but
I didn't I didn't really know what for until I
was in middle school. And that's when I really started
doing research on the case and and I really saw
how how badly everything was handled, and I was like,
my uncle doesn't deserve to be here. But it's it's
(09:55):
been very easy to have a good relationship with him.
Speaker 8 (09:58):
I love my uncle to who.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Linda tell me? Why why was that important? She was
a baby, she was edny bitty? Why was it important?
Will be visiting Carl.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I've had Andreana since she was one day old. I
brought her home from the hospital and I raised her.
It's it's funny you should ask that, you know, when
before Andrewa was born and before this crime was committed.
And I feel like I have a good personal relationship
(10:33):
with God. But I felt like God talked to me
and said, you know, there's a baby that will need you,
and you will need this baby, and people were like, no,
you're crazy. You know you didn't have all the kids
you're having, And I said, I'm telling you. God told
me that. And when she was born, well while her
mom was still pregnant, she decided she didn't want her.
(10:56):
She was going to give her to my son, and
my son gave her to me, and Andreana became the
reason for me being able to make it through the
trial and the whole horror of them being accused of
a murder. This is before they were convicted.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
So when they were in the county jail, I would
go twice a week. I would because they wouldn't let
me see Jake and Tremaine on the same day. I
would take Andreana. She grew up the first three or
four years of her life going twice a week to
the Oklahoma County jail. And I thought it was important
because she needed to know them, and they needed to
(11:42):
know her. This was their niece, and almost everybody, given
the severity of the crime at hand, had cut Jake
off from seeing his kids. Tremaine wasn't allowed to see
his kids, and they needed, they needed some hope. I
(12:04):
just felt like Andreana was was hope, you know, it
was just hope that that we would make it through this.
And but by the grace of God, we have this bar.
But I thought it was important because every kid has
a right to know who their family is.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Linda, you mentioned Jake, your other son. You are mom
to three sons, but I cannot imagine as a mother.
Tremaine and Jake both tried and convicted of murder, and
there was a headline I read that said one brother
confessed to murder and got life without parole. Tremaine would
(12:44):
got death.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yes, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
If you can put into words what that is like
to live with, what that was like to experience.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I tell you, you know, And when you make choices in
your life, you know, your choice is your consequences, whether
consequences are good or bad. But when your life is
forever changed and you don't get a choice, it makes
it hard, It makes it difficult, and it's very hurtful.
My son Andre and I didn't get a choice in this.
(13:20):
You know, nobody said, hey, are you okay if we
go out and somebody gets murdered tonight and we go
to jail, are you okay? If we get the death penalty,
or are you okay if I commit suicide or you okay
if the state executes me. We didn't get a choice
in any of that, and so those choices were made
(13:41):
for us. And it's been really, really difficult when you
lose not one son, but two sons to the system,
and then the system is so bad, especially for people
who have mental health issues like Jake had serious, serious
mental health issues, and it just got to the point.
(14:03):
He was one of the strongest individuals. I thought that
I ever knew, you know, he could do time standing
on his head. But when I got the call in
the middle of the night that he had committed suicide,
it was devastating to lose one child, and now at
(14:24):
the thought that within forty eight hours I could lose
a second child. You know, one third of my heart
is already gone. If Tremaine dies, that's two thirds, and
it's hard to live with one third of a heart.
That's kind of.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Maybe all of you right now, what your last I
guess most recent interaction with Tremaine was what more interaction
you expect to have between now in the next forty
eight hours and all of you all's kind of assessment
how do you all think he's doing.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
My biggest fear has always been that if they executed Tremaine, he.
Speaker 7 (15:01):
Would be there scared and alone. Now Tremaine tells me
he's not scared to die. I don't know if I
believe that.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I don't know that he's scared to die, but I
feel like he's scared of the fallout afterwards for the
rest of us that are left here without him. Our
last interaction before we saw him on camera or on
the TV screen at the clinic's hearing, we had went
(15:32):
the weekend before that and saw and visited him. They
gave us one hour, and well, I think we at
an hour and thirty. Actually, no, we only stayed an
hour because we had to go oh yeah to the rally.
But you know, we never talked about him dying over
(15:53):
this whole twenty one years. He just didn't. We didn't
talk about me dying, We didn't talk about him dying,
And we probably should have had those hard conversations a
long time before we had him. And we only had
him when his number finally came up and we were
(16:14):
forced to have to have him because as the person
responsible as his next of ken. You know, I have
to know what do you want me to do? What
are your final wishes? Just tell me so I can
do it. And it's real difficult. And we all get
to go see him tomorrow as a family for what
(16:37):
if they execute him, will be the final visit that
we have. And I don't know how I feel about that.
I know that I can't ever tell him goodbye. I
cannot leave that visit and tell him goodbye in case
he dies. I just can't.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Brooklyn, do you know what you're going to say to
your uncle? What you're not going to say.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
To your uncle?
Speaker 8 (17:14):
I don't really know, because it's crazy to think that
it's his last visit before you could potentially be executed.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Like what what do you say?
Speaker 8 (17:25):
Like like they're like, I don't even know what I
would say, actually, But one thing I do know I
don't want to say is by to my uncle.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I do want to sit there and have to tell
my uncle.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
By and think that's the last memory I'm ever going
to have of him, seeing him just sitting there.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Andreana, what about you? And also how long Andreana do
you all know you all are going to get? And
how big of a.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Group are.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
People?
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And two people get too out hours. Then we switch
out with the next two and then the next two,
so everybody's gotten to see him for two hours.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
And Andreana, what about you? How do you also same questions?
How do you think your uncle is doing right now?
Speaker 9 (18:18):
I mean he yeah, I will say. Throughout all of
this recently, you know, you can this has like aged
him a lot, you know, and he still he still
(18:40):
stays positive, you know. He whenever we get to whenever
he gets to call us for the little fifteen minute
call we get, he he always tells us to keep
our head up and keep the faith and keep fighting
because it's not over till it's over. But I mean,
it's hard to think that this is this might be
(19:03):
the last visit we get. I mean, I I didn't
get to hug my uncle until I was twenty I'm
twenty three now, and when when was our last June?
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Was our last contact visit?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Wow?
Speaker 9 (19:27):
And I hate that that was the last hug that
I got to give my uncle because now we just
get to see him through the glass like it started
out with.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I think it's the last one. We'd probably hug him
a little bit tighter and held him a little bit longer.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Okay, wait, I'm gonna make sure I got that right.
So when you all do this, this plan planned visit
is going.
Speaker 9 (19:53):
To be through yeah, through.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yeah, a piece of it will be a contact visit.
Speaker 9 (19:59):
Yeah, we won't get to And I'm.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
Making sure I'll understood you right there, Linda, Is that
the last time you had a contact visit you didn't
know the execution was coming up?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Now, we knew the exit. We didn't have a date
at that time, but we didn't know that all of
this stuff that's been going on. We didn't know they
were going to snatch him up and throw him back
in H dungeon on H unit and isolate him and
take everything from him. No, we didn't know that. Had
(20:31):
we known, we probably, like I said, would have hugged
him a little longer, held him a little tighter.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Forgive me.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
I didn't know this, but you will have given and
you didn't know it. You possibly have given your loved
one his last hug.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
You just didn't know it was going to be the
last stuff. I'm sorry I did not realize.
Speaker 9 (20:50):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, I didn't know that there was a specific amount
of contact visits you could or couldn't have how does
that work? How often have you able to hold or
touch your son, Linda, over the years.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
You know he was in he was on h unit
behind glass, and we didn't get to have contact visits
for sixteen of the twenty one years. And then when
the ACLU got involved and said these living conditions are
not it, and so then the prison I guess, to
(21:26):
avoid any problems with the ACLU, decided to move death
row inmates to a unit and decided to let him
have contact visits. So for more years than not, I
didn't get to hug my son. And then the first
(21:49):
time it was amazing. It had been the first time
in probably eighteen years, because he spent two years in
the county jail where we couldn't have contact visits either.
The first time in eighteen years that I had got
to hug my son and it was I can't even
(22:09):
describe how it felt. I cried. And now to know
that he could possibly die, you know, death is forever
and we not get to hug him. That the next
time I may get to hug my sons in a
body bag is very very heart wrenching to me.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Linda, do you all have plans if this does go
through to be there when he is executed.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Now, I we will be here as a family. Tremaine
had to decide he wanted to be there. First of all,
he didn't want any of us to be there. I
told Tremaine it was his choice because he asked me
about a couple of people that he was going to
put on the list. When it's thirty five days before
(23:02):
the execution, they fill out what's called an execution packet,
and they have that on his birthday. Yeah, thirty five
days was on his birthday. And you know, he had
to put down the people who the people who would
witness his execution. You know, who he wants to be
in charge of where his body goes. He has to
(23:23):
put down what he wants for his last meal, and
who'll pick up his property, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
Well, on his birthday, on his birthday, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
And so who will be there in the room.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Well, the only person that'll be in the actual execution
chamber with him should he be executed, would be his
spiritual advisor and whoever's administering the drugs. The other people
sit outside. There's a glass window that's open and people
sit there and witness it. I think the state gets
(23:59):
so many witnesses and Tremaine is allowed I think five witnesses.
I'm not sure five or six or something like that.
I told him that I would respect whoever he wanted
there or just know it couldn't be me. I don't
know that I can even be conscious when ten o'clock
Thursday comes.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
Did he specifically ask, though, that you that certain people
not be there.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yes, he didn't want any of us to be, especially me,
you know he Tremaine is worried, as are all of
us that you know, if you've never lost a child,
it is the most heart wrenching thing and you never
recover from it. You learn how to deal with it,
but you never recover. When my son Jake died, that
(24:48):
was just something spontaneous. It's not something that was planned
out like this. This has been the most tortuous thing,
counting days till you know your son could die. It's
just mentally torturous for all of us, so I can
only imagine what it is for him.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
But it was in a good day in the midst
of all the torture to hear the clemency board at
least recommend clemency for him was that a good day.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
It was a wonderful day. It was a miracle that
my son was far overdue for twenty one years. They
gave a break before they decided to vote, and we
all went outside. I could not go back in because
I could not stand to hear one more shred of
bad news for my son. So all of the rest
(25:42):
of my family went back in there, and I said,
I'm going to stay out here because I can't if
they deny him clemency, they'll have taken me out here
on a stretcher.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
And after I at least after I heard that third yes,
and the room kind of, you know us at least
we kind of just gasped, and some people started clapping,
and they told us to quiet down. And then me
and my uncle Tremaine's girlfriend jumped up and sprinted out
(26:15):
of the out of the building and I straight ran
straight to her car. Said they said yes, And then
I broke down in the parking lot like it was.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I broke down. It was a great day.
Speaker 7 (26:27):
It was.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
It was the what we had been waiting for, that
the person they had painted him to be through the
Attorney General's office. It uh, they finally saw through all
that and and saw that this guy got a raw deal.
(26:48):
You know, he didn't he wasn't adequately represented, none of that.
So yeah, it was a good your reaction.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So you have Andreana running out telling you, they said, yes,
can you tell me what you did, what you thought,
what you felt. I mean, I can't imagine the rush
of emotions.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I felt like for the first time in twenty one years,
I could breathe, if just for that moment, And it
was just for that moment, because it you know, there
was a lot of work to be done after that
to convince the governor to stay his execution to community sentence.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
Well in the husit, How has it gone on that front?
What do you think your chances are now that the
governor will decide in your favor.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
I can say that I hope that. You know, this
is his last year as governor, and all I can
say is that I hope that as a last act
of human compassion for a man who didn't kill anyone,
for a man who sat in that clemency hearing and
(28:02):
admitted I'm a broken person. I've made mistakes. I'm broken.
You know, if I could give this mother her child back,
I would, If I could have been strong enough to
stop my brother that night, I would, but I can't
go back it. I just I just pray that as
(28:25):
the last act of human compassion for someone that he
will he will do the right thing and stand up
and grant my son clemency.
Speaker 7 (28:35):
And Linda.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Much has been made about this law in the state
of Oklahoma that if you're a part of an act,
a criminal act that results in the death of someone,
you are just as culpable as the person who either
pulled the trigger or actually wielded that weapon that ended
(28:57):
that person's life. Feelings about that law, Well.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
First of all, I think it's the stupidest law that
was ever written in the history of the world. I mean,
if there are ten of us sitting here and we've
all got a gun and we all start shooting, only
one of ours bullets can kill somebody. So are we
all culpable by being at the scene. Probably? Yes. But
(29:27):
if I didn't kill this person, then I don't deserve
to die.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Do you think your son deserves to be behind bars
for the rest of his life.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
No. I think my son he was the least culpable
of everybody that anticipated in this crime, and I don't
just say that because he was my son, because Jake,
who did the actual killing, was my son too. I
(29:56):
think Tremaine was with the wrong people, in the wrong place,
at the wrong time. And I know he has shown
great remorse, great sadness, and has just about lost his
mind over it at certain times in the last twenty
one years. You know, I have always said that my
(30:18):
heart goes as a mother, and my heart goes out
to Ronnie With's mother, because I know that pain of
losing a child, whether you lose him to murder or
suicide or car wreck or whatever it is, it doesn't
make it any easier. And I just feel like he
is so remorseful, And you know, I'm also hopeful that
(30:46):
the governor will take into consideration that the victim's family
and the living victim they do not want to remain executed.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Have you been able to speak to the with family
at all over these decades a few decades.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
I haven't, and I you know we have. We have
tread real lightly as a family because there was so
many improprieties in Tremayne's case, you know, ineffective counsel and
prosecutorial misconduct, just a lot of things. So we've had
to tread lightly on what we could say and what
(31:24):
we could do, who we could speak to, because we
didn't want to take the chance of messing up any
chance that he had for any type of relief. It
hasn't been only in the last probably months that we
have really as a family gotten to speak out about
(31:45):
all of this, because he had so many things still
pending in different courts and things like that. I don't know,
i'd I don't even know what words I could say
(32:06):
to Barbara Withff to even to make it easier, because
I know when my son died, there was nothing anyone
could say that made it less painful. This situation with Tremaine.
People tell me all the time, you know, I am
so sorry. I feel bad for you, you know, But
(32:27):
those words, and I know people truly mean it, but
it doesn't make it any easier. So I don't think
there's anything I could say to her. But if there
was anything, is that my heart has always gone out
to her and I am so sorry for the loss
of her son.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
An opportunity to speak to the governor or anybody from
his office.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
No, not us as a family, Tremaine's attorneys have. We
haven't gotten to speak to the governor. I wish I
could speak to the governor because what I would say is,
if this was your son or your father, your brother,
your uncle, would you want someone to show them mercy
(33:12):
and grace or would you be so quick to execute them?
Speaker 9 (33:16):
So?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, what have What have Tremaine's lawyers told you? Have
they given you any reason to feel hope? Have they
cautioned you not to get your hopes up?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
I haven't really talked to Amanda since they saw the
governor yesterday. I know she's very busy filing stuff and
doing this and doing that, and and you know, on
Tremaine's behalf and it's a really busy time for all
of us. So I haven't really spoken to her. I
(33:47):
don't know. Have y'all spoken to you? Heard from uncle yesterday?
Speaker 8 (33:51):
He called us last night and he said that they
had called him and told him that the meeting was
that went really well.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
That sounded good, right, If the meeting went well, is
that a good thing?
Speaker 5 (34:04):
Right? That sounds good.
Speaker 9 (34:05):
It's but we.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Don't know what that means exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
It went well, Yeah, you don't know what that Yeah,
it's pretty remarkable even hearing you say that. I can
we can still we're looking at your faces and we
can still see your reservations. You're unwilling, excited.
Speaker 6 (34:23):
I only had two more things here. I'll start with actually,
because what's going on. When we first started this interview,
I'm not sure what happened, but there was something between
all of us and you, all three of you all
laughed about something, and I was like, wow, I didn't
expect laughter this entire interview. My question is, have you
found a little moments to be happy or to crack
(34:43):
a joke?
Speaker 8 (34:45):
I feel like and not like with anything like going
on with the case. I don't feel like we cracked
jokes with anything with that, but you do try to
find like little things.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Like in the day that do kind of try to.
We do joke with uncle Yeah a lot. Yeah, with
our uncle Al, and they try to.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
Joke with our dad as much as possible, just to
try to keep him in good spirits because he does
hide his most. We even joke with Mama, so we
try to. We me and Arona do try to keep
the mood very light when it comes just Momma, don't make.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Linda.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I want to ask you your son was twenty two
years old when this crime was committed. He's now forty
six years old. How have you seen him change over
these past twenty plus years? How has his life experience
changed him, prison changed him? And perhaps even his faith?
Speaker 4 (35:51):
You know, before Jake died in twenty nineteen, Tremaine was
I would probably say, I'm still always in Jake's shadow
as Jake's little brother. It wasn't until Jake died that
Tremaine came into his own and realized a lot of
(36:14):
things that I think he had been allowing his brother
to block his way of thinking. He had to come
into his own and realize, man, I had the ability,
and it bothers him every day that he says, if
I had just been strong enough to tell my brother no,
none of this would have happened. But I wasn't. And
(36:38):
you know, I mean he was a kid, He was
barely an adult when all this happened. And you know,
I don't think as we grow up and we grow older,
and some of us we never never learned. But I
think we don't think about long term consequences, Like now,
when you get my age, you think about long term
(37:01):
consequences because long term becomes short term, you know, and
I just I have seen Tremaine become a remarkable man.
He's always thinking of other people, he told me the
last time I saw him. He said, Mom, I just
(37:27):
want to say that, whether I live or whether I die,
I just want this everything I've been through to precipitate
a change for the other inmates who they'll try to
execute after me, he said, I just want there to
be a change in this broken system. And so even
(37:48):
in the final moments, when he's death is knocking at
his door, possibly he's still thinking about I want my
life to make a difference in people that still have
to come where I'm at now. And I'm very proud
of him As his mother, I'm proud for him to
be my son. He's amazing.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Uh And to jump on that point, you know there
are obviously the death penalty is a controversial issue in
this country, and people have very strong feelings on both
sides of the fence. I would love to have each
of you talk about the value of Tremayne's life and
what he can give back to this world, to your
(38:34):
family if he's allowed to live.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Tremaine is amazing. I think that what a waste it
would be for everyone in his world, the people that
know and love him, what a waste it would be
for him to die. He is always trying to give back,
(38:57):
and that's the sigh of him that people don't know.
They don't know, the part of you know him that
while in prison inmates that had no shoes, he would
take shoes off of his own feet and give him
to somebody that didn't have any or couldn't didn't have
money on their books to buy some before he got
(39:18):
sent back over to H unit. He would cook meals
and feed hungry inmates who had no commissary. You know,
that's the kind of man he is. And despite what
he has been going through for the last two decades,
he still finds time to encourage these kids, to encourage
(39:39):
my two great grandkids that I'm raising, to just be
an inspiration to everybody and try to mentor to young
people that this is not what you want to do,
This is not how you want to end up. You
don't you know. I have a little great grandson in
here who's not and he's been going through some things.
(40:02):
And when I took my great grandkids to see him
and he talked to him, he said, he said, you
don't want to end up in here. You don't, this
is not what you want. You know, you need to
stay in school and do good and you know, straighten
up your attitude. And it's just that's why I say,
(40:24):
this just cannot be the end of Tremayne's story. He
has so much left that he wants to give to
the world and the people that are in the world
around him.
Speaker 8 (40:36):
So yeah, like like Grandma said, he's definitely a mentory
an inspiration for us. He's definitely guided us through a
lot of things, whether that'd be like school, like arguments
with people, like he wants to get both sides.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
He doesn't want to hear just one.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
Side and say, oh, well, Brooklyn, you're in the wrong
because of this, and there's no even both sides, and
then he'll give you his honest, unbiased opinion on it.
And just for giving his situation, you wouldn't see, you
wouldn't feel somebody would have such a positive attitude and
such a positive outlook on how you should be in
(41:16):
life and just try to be such like a positive
influence on people, like stay stay in school, like don't
don't argue with your parents all the time, Like make
sure you clean your room up, make sure your your
grades are good because you have He will always tell
you that you have the you have the possibility to
make a change, so do it.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
And you can't do.
Speaker 8 (41:38):
It if you're falling behind, if you're slacking, if you're
getting in trouble all the time, you can't do that.
So my uncle is definitely just a big part of
my life, a big person that keeps me going and
just like keeps me up in the morning and keeps
me keeps from I don't know, going in sane practically,
(42:00):
and he.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Has, uh, he has. Both of his kids were grown
before he got to see them. They were three and
ten months old when when he went to prison, and
so by the time he got to have a relationship
(42:21):
with his two boys, they were grown. And I made
sure that Brendan got to go see him. I took
him to the prison to see him several times. And
you know, I'm not real close. Of course, this has
brought us closer. I wasn't really close to those two
(42:45):
of my grandchildren because growing up they weren't allowed to
be around us. Their families. You know, they punished all
of us for what Tremaine did and what Jake did,
and but I didn't care about that. I just wanted
him to be able to have a relationship, and now
he does. He has a great relationship with both of
(43:06):
his kids, and he is just so positive with them
and encourages his son. He has a son in the military,
and he just encourages him and his other son who's
who lives here in Oklahoma City. He encourages him to
be the best you can be. And even then he goes, Mom,
maybe me coming to prison was a good thing because
(43:28):
it stopped this cycle of criminal activity, of violence of
you know, all of this. It's stopped because my kids
now have you know, they've done good. And you know,
he's just he's just an amazing, amazing, amazing guy.
Speaker 9 (43:50):
He is.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, we are thinking of all of you, your family.
We know how what we don't know. We can only
how difficult these next few hours will be for you all.
But everyone will be waiting to see what Governor Stit decides,
And we are thinking of you, and we are hoping
(44:15):
for the best for your family, and we appreciate you
opening up and being vulnerable and talking about something so
incredibly painful. But I know that the hope is that
there will be changes in the system, and certainly we
know that you hope your loved one, that Trumaine will
(44:35):
be able to continue this beautiful relationship he has with
all of you.
Speaker 9 (44:39):
So thank you, thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah, thank you. This is if there's one thing I
could end this one, it would be our family, his
legal team. They've all been amazing and we are all
stronger than the storm we are going through.
Speaker 9 (44:57):
And there is one thing out, one more thing I
would like to put out there, just for everyone to know.
They have currently moved my uncle to death watch, and
that's they put him in a cell that's right next
to the execution the execution chamber chamber, and he's under
(45:18):
they took they've taken everything from him except a book
and his tablet to be able.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
To call us, to call you, well me.
Speaker 9 (45:28):
They've blocked everybody else's number but mine, and he's under
twenty four hour surveillance. I mean, he doesn't get good meals.
I'll tell you that right now. We've seen that firsthand
in visits with what they what they are feeding him,
and it's not.
Speaker 6 (45:48):
It's what are you the only one that's getting uh,
that's not blocked.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
He's only calling you.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
We have no idea, it just you know. One of
the rules for once they're to death watch, which is
seven days prior to the execution date, is that they
are the the inmate is supposed to have unlimited access
to the phone to stay in touch with the mediate family.
Yet right after the clemency hearing, everybody's numbers blocked. They
(46:20):
won't let us talk to him. And that is very,
very tortuous because as his mother, you think i'd be
the last person they would block.
Speaker 9 (46:30):
But you know, I'm I'm at the point because I'm
the only person you can call, and I'm having to
you know, drive around and come here, you know, to
go to edmind just so we can get a chance.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
To talk to him.
Speaker 6 (46:48):
That seems like that should have been corrected. That's like
that was a mistake that should have or could have
been corrected.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
Journey's attempted to try to but they say, the prison
say it's above them.
Speaker 8 (46:58):
Yeah, they keep saying that it's above their ward and
the their highest person there, it's above her.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (47:07):
Well no, thank you for actually that's a good no
getting to look a good detail to know.
Speaker 5 (47:12):
Thank you for that. And again for I want you.
Speaker 6 (47:14):
All to know, if you'll get a chance, if you'll
listen to podcasts, go back and listen to our Amy
and t We did a full podcast on this case
and following this story before we ever decided we wanted
to reach out. We watch that entire live stream of
that clement'sy hearing every second of it. So we have
been We just want to know where we're coming from.
This is a story and a lot of frankly executions
(47:36):
we've been following this year because the country has been
executing folk left and rank, but it was a case
we were interested in, passionate about, and quite frankly, we
can say out loud we're on your side about on
this one in a lot of ways. So really we
wish you all the best with what you're going through
and hopefully we talk to you again in better circumstances.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Thank you guys, And
as of this recording, Tremainwood is set to be executed
by lethal injection. It's set to take place in the
state of Oklahoma at ten am Local time eleven am
Eastern time here and again the governor Governor Kevin Stidt
has until that ten am deadline to intervene if he
(48:20):
so chooses, But it should be noted during his tenure
as governor, the Pardons and Parole Board has recommended clemency
in four cases. He has only granted it in one case,
and that was back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
And since he took office as.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Governor in twenty nineteen, sixteen people have been executed in
that state. So this is certainly a familiar situation that
his office says he takes very seriously.
Speaker 5 (48:48):
But we wait.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
I learned so much from these ladies about the process.
Many of these cases we covered. I didn't I didn't know,
And I think that was the most gut wrenching part
that the hug they gave him, they didn't realize it
was going to be the last. They will get to
see him one more time, but through a glass. This
is just again we follow these cases. We always say
ropes are ever any little bit the question of any kind.
(49:13):
Let's err on the side of not killing somebody because
you can't correct that mistake. This is certainly one of
those that rises to the level of something not quite right.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
So no rush.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
And also we should note the family of the victims
don't want the execution to go forward. So I always
say I will I will be on board with any
law if they say, we'll let the victims family.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Decide, you know, and we have covered so many of
these cases at this point that it is something that yes,
I mean, there's a lot of things we'd love to
change about our legal system, but certainly that's one of
the glaring issues. If the family of the victims do
not want the convicted killer of their loved one to
be executed, that should be the final, say period period A.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Right, folks, We always appreciate you spending some time with us.
This is when we're keeping a close eye on as
always top right corner of your Apple podcast app where
our show page it says follow there you can click that.
This one will have updates. We don't want you to
have to go hunting for some of these updates we
do have. This is when we're going to stay on
top of so by all means, click that and keep
hanging with us. We always appreciate you, folks for hemy robot.
(50:22):
I'm TJ.
Speaker 5 (50:23):
Holmes. We'll talk to y'all real soon.
Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, November the eleventh, and as
of this recording, we are forty eight hours away, less
than forty eight hours away from the execution of inmate
Tremaine Wood in Oklahoma. His family, in particular his mother
and his two young nieces, hugged him for the last
(00:24):
time months ago. They just had no idea that was
possibly going to be the last hug. Welcome everybody to
this episode of Amy and TJ. In Robes, I'm speaking
in particular about Linda Wood, Andreana Wood, and Brooklyn Wood,
the mother and two nieces of Tremaine, who are right
now Robes, holding out hope that Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Won't be the end, and they aren't sleeping, they aren't eating,
and they have experienced every emotion imaginable anticipating what could
possibly happen. No one knows what the governor is going
to decide, and he has until literally the eleventh hour,
moments before the scheduled execution, to make a decision whether
(01:09):
or not to grant Tremaine would clemency.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So you can only imagine, folks, what it's like for
that family right now. But we have covered this story.
Robock and I have been following this story for weeks.
We have a whole episode on the case itself. What
we're talking about a man, Tremain Wood, who is forty
six years old now, who was in his twenties when
he was a part of a robbery that took place
on New Year's Day back in two thousand and two,
(01:33):
a robbery in which a man ended up dead, stabbed
to death. Tremain Would and his brother were the two
who took part in this robbery. There was a back
and forth about who actually was the one who killed
the man, but Tremaine Wood's brother also convicted in this crime.
Robes he got life in prison. Tremaine ends up with
here we are on death row. There's all kinds of
(01:56):
questions and legal questions about the representation that Tremaine Would got,
which by all accounts, I think everybody agrees he did
not get adequate representation. This has led us now to
a clemency hearing that we just heard matter of about
a week ago, in which the clemency Board recommended yes,
in a vote of three to two, his life should
be spared. But that doesn't spare his life Robes. It
(02:17):
means then now the governor and that catches everybody up,
and that leads us to these three women, these three
young ladies that we had a chance to talk to.
We've talked to a lot of people over the years
and covered a lot of cases. I actually count remember
talking to someone this intimately who was this close to
having their loved one killed.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I have never had a conversation like we just had
with these three women who are going through something that
no mother and no family member would ever want to imagine.
And yet to sit down with them and to have
the time with them that we had with them, it
is impossible to not feel for these women to not
(02:54):
feel something for what is state sanctioned murder in this.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
So, folks, we want you to hear from them now.
And look, Robot and I we covered this case. We
pointed out we're not going through all the legalities in
the back and forth and the nuances and the legalities
of this case. This was a matter of talking to
three women who are days away from losing someone who
was possibly the most important person in their lives and
(03:23):
one of the most influential. So here now we want
you to listen to our conversation with Linda Wood, mother
of Tremaine Wood and Andrea and Brooklyn would his.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Nieces, and I imagine you all have in the past
at least week, been non stop. In fact, you were
just at an event for Trumont. Tell me how you're feeling,
what you've been doing, and what life is like right now.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Life for me right now is Tremaine's mother is stress
level one thousand. It is. My heart is so heavy
with the thought that my son could die in less
than two days. So that's kind of how my life
has been for these last few months. He has been
(04:13):
treated so badly at the penitentiary that and you know,
as a mother, the only thing you want to do
when your child is hurting is make it better, and
you can't. So it's been very stressful, very.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Stressful, madam.
Speaker 6 (04:29):
You say stressful, How does one prepare for the death
of their child.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
You don't. You don't prepare. I have tried to play
that scenario over in my mind a million times in
the last twenty one years, because we knew from the
day he was sentenced to death that that was very
real possibility. But my mind won't allow me to even
(04:58):
fathom him not being here any longer. I always go
back to the same thing. This cannot be the end
of my son's story.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You have been sitting with this, living with this for
more than two decades. But as we're speaking to you,
it is Tuesday afternoon, and in forty eight hours or so,
give or take, your sun may be there on death row,
his life about to end in these final forty eight hours.
(05:32):
How do you exist? Do you sleep? Do you rest? No?
Speaker 4 (05:39):
No, I don't sleep.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
I am.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
Mentally, emotionally and physically drained. I'm drained. I'm so tired,
but I can't sleep. It's hard for me to eat.
It's just it's torturous. It's torturous.
Speaker 8 (06:02):
Yeah, I'll definitely agree with Grandma and that one. It's
definitely it's hard to sleep. It's definitely hard. It's hard
to eat that have an appetite when you're sitting there
thinking that the person that you love the most and
you care about the most is going to be gone
in under forty eight hours.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
If this doesn't go the right way.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Brooklyn, why do you.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
There is?
Speaker 6 (06:27):
You just mentioned him as the most important person and
the closest person in your life.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
For folks who aren't aware of.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
That, you as a seventeen year oldly speaking on it,
Why is he that much to you?
Speaker 8 (06:38):
My uncle has made an amazing impact in my life.
He's helped me through multiple mental health crisis that I've
had within myself, and just multiple I used to get
bullied all the time in school and he's always helped
me through that and taught me that my worth isn't
measured by what other people say about me. It's measured
(06:59):
by what I think about myself and what I see
inside myself. And just because people put in bad and
you have to put good out.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
In the world just to receive it back, just because.
Speaker 8 (07:08):
You're not getting it in that moment doesn't mean that
you're never gonna get it.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
You have only known your uncle at seventeen as a
man behind bars, a convicted murderer on death row. And
a lot of people would look at your uncle's story,
his name and think they know and may think he's
a monster, may think he's evil, may think all sorts
of things. How would you describe the uncle you know?
Speaker 8 (07:37):
I would describe my uncle as a loving, caring person.
He pretty much puts you before he will put himself.
He'll give you what he has off his back like
the last shirt he has off his back and give
it to you because you needed it more than he
needed it in that moment. He's such a giving person,
and he'll put anybody before he puts himself, just to
(08:00):
make sure they're okay, or they feel right, or they're
mentally okay, they're doing good.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Out in the world.
Speaker 8 (08:06):
He will always put somebody before him.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Have you and Andreana the other?
Speaker 6 (08:14):
How old are you? Tell me twenty three? Right, yes,
this is your uncle as well. Now tell me what
year were you born?
Speaker 8 (08:21):
Two thousand and two?
Speaker 6 (08:23):
That was the year this crime took place, is it not?
Speaker 9 (08:26):
Yep, I was born a few months after.
Speaker 6 (08:30):
It's wild that that's the case. But how do you
explain to people, Explain to us how you go about
having a relationship, much less a loving and supportive one
with an uncle that you have never gotten a chance
to spend time with outside of a prison.
Speaker 9 (08:50):
I mean it was mostly just through telephone calls and visits.
I mean I've been going to visit him since he'd
been in like the actual county jail, before he before
the trial, before everything. I was she was taking me
as a baby to go visit, and so I've I
(09:11):
always knew about him, and I always got I always
got to talk to him growing up on calls and
everything like that, visits, and he just he's never been
a bad person in my eyes ever. And I mean
even when I got old enough, I I knew, you know,
(09:33):
of course I knew that he was in prison, but
I didn't I didn't really know what for until I
was in middle school. And that's when I really started
doing research on the case and and I really saw
how how badly everything was handled, and I was like,
my uncle doesn't deserve to be here. But it's it's
(09:55):
been very easy to have a good relationship with him.
Speaker 8 (09:58):
I love my uncle to who.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Linda tell me? Why why was that important? She was
a baby, she was edny bitty? Why was it important?
Will be visiting Carl.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I've had Andreana since she was one day old. I
brought her home from the hospital and I raised her.
It's it's funny you should ask that, you know, when
before Andrewa was born and before this crime was committed.
And I feel like I have a good personal relationship
(10:33):
with God. But I felt like God talked to me
and said, you know, there's a baby that will need you,
and you will need this baby, and people were like, no,
you're crazy. You know you didn't have all the kids
you're having, And I said, I'm telling you. God told
me that. And when she was born, well while her
mom was still pregnant, she decided she didn't want her.
(10:56):
She was going to give her to my son, and
my son gave her to me, and Andreana became the
reason for me being able to make it through the
trial and the whole horror of them being accused of
a murder. This is before they were convicted.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
So when they were in the county jail, I would
go twice a week. I would because they wouldn't let
me see Jake and Tremaine on the same day. I
would take Andreana. She grew up the first three or
four years of her life going twice a week to
the Oklahoma County jail. And I thought it was important
because she needed to know them, and they needed to
(11:42):
know her. This was their niece, and almost everybody, given
the severity of the crime at hand, had cut Jake
off from seeing his kids. Tremaine wasn't allowed to see
his kids, and they needed, they needed some hope. I
(12:04):
just felt like Andreana was was hope, you know, it
was just hope that that we would make it through this.
And but by the grace of God, we have this bar.
But I thought it was important because every kid has
a right to know who their family is.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Linda, you mentioned Jake, your other son. You are mom
to three sons, but I cannot imagine as a mother.
Tremaine and Jake both tried and convicted of murder, and
there was a headline I read that said one brother
confessed to murder and got life without parole. Tremaine would
(12:44):
got death.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yes, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
If you can put into words what that is like
to live with, what that was like to experience.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I tell you, you know, And when you make choices in
your life, you know, your choice is your consequences, whether
consequences are good or bad. But when your life is
forever changed and you don't get a choice, it makes
it hard, It makes it difficult, and it's very hurtful.
My son Andre and I didn't get a choice in this.
(13:20):
You know, nobody said, hey, are you okay if we
go out and somebody gets murdered tonight and we go
to jail, are you okay? If we get the death penalty,
or are you okay if I commit suicide or you okay
if the state executes me. We didn't get a choice
in any of that, and so those choices were made
(13:41):
for us. And it's been really, really difficult when you
lose not one son, but two sons to the system,
and then the system is so bad, especially for people
who have mental health issues like Jake had serious, serious
mental health issues, and it just got to the point.
(14:03):
He was one of the strongest individuals. I thought that
I ever knew, you know, he could do time standing
on his head. But when I got the call in
the middle of the night that he had committed suicide,
it was devastating to lose one child, and now at
(14:24):
the thought that within forty eight hours I could lose
a second child. You know, one third of my heart
is already gone. If Tremaine dies, that's two thirds, and
it's hard to live with one third of a heart.
That's kind of.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Maybe all of you right now, what your last I
guess most recent interaction with Tremaine was what more interaction
you expect to have between now in the next forty
eight hours and all of you all's kind of assessment
how do you all think he's doing.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
My biggest fear has always been that if they executed Tremaine, he.
Speaker 7 (15:01):
Would be there scared and alone. Now Tremaine tells me
he's not scared to die. I don't know if I
believe that.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I don't know that he's scared to die, but I
feel like he's scared of the fallout afterwards for the
rest of us that are left here without him. Our
last interaction before we saw him on camera or on
the TV screen at the clinic's hearing, we had went
(15:32):
the weekend before that and saw and visited him. They
gave us one hour, and well, I think we at
an hour and thirty. Actually, no, we only stayed an
hour because we had to go oh yeah to the rally.
But you know, we never talked about him dying over
(15:53):
this whole twenty one years. He just didn't. We didn't
talk about me dying, We didn't talk about him dying,
And we probably should have had those hard conversations a
long time before we had him. And we only had
him when his number finally came up and we were
(16:14):
forced to have to have him because as the person
responsible as his next of ken. You know, I have
to know what do you want me to do? What
are your final wishes? Just tell me so I can
do it. And it's real difficult. And we all get
to go see him tomorrow as a family for what
(16:37):
if they execute him, will be the final visit that
we have. And I don't know how I feel about that.
I know that I can't ever tell him goodbye. I
cannot leave that visit and tell him goodbye in case
he dies. I just can't.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Brooklyn, do you know what you're going to say to
your uncle? What you're not going to say.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
To your uncle?
Speaker 8 (17:14):
I don't really know, because it's crazy to think that
it's his last visit before you could potentially be executed.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Like what what do you say?
Speaker 8 (17:25):
Like like they're like, I don't even know what I
would say, actually, But one thing I do know I
don't want to say is by to my uncle.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I do want to sit there and have to tell
my uncle.
Speaker 8 (17:37):
By and think that's the last memory I'm ever going
to have of him, seeing him just sitting there.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
Andreana, what about you? And also how long Andreana do
you all know you all are going to get? And
how big of a.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Group are.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
People?
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And two people get too out hours. Then we switch
out with the next two and then the next two,
so everybody's gotten to see him for two hours.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
And Andreana, what about you? How do you also same questions?
How do you think your uncle is doing right now?
Speaker 9 (18:18):
I mean he yeah, I will say. Throughout all of
this recently, you know, you can this has like aged
him a lot, you know, and he still he still
(18:40):
stays positive, you know. He whenever we get to whenever
he gets to call us for the little fifteen minute
call we get, he he always tells us to keep
our head up and keep the faith and keep fighting
because it's not over till it's over. But I mean,
it's hard to think that this is this might be
(19:03):
the last visit we get. I mean, I I didn't
get to hug my uncle until I was twenty I'm
twenty three now, and when when was our last June?
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Was our last contact visit?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Wow?
Speaker 9 (19:27):
And I hate that that was the last hug that
I got to give my uncle because now we just
get to see him through the glass like it started
out with.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
I think it's the last one. We'd probably hug him
a little bit tighter and held him a little bit longer.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Okay, wait, I'm gonna make sure I got that right.
So when you all do this, this plan planned visit
is going.
Speaker 9 (19:53):
To be through yeah, through.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yeah, a piece of it will be a contact visit.
Speaker 9 (19:59):
Yeah, we won't get to And I'm.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
Making sure I'll understood you right there, Linda, Is that
the last time you had a contact visit you didn't
know the execution was coming up?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Now, we knew the exit. We didn't have a date
at that time, but we didn't know that all of
this stuff that's been going on. We didn't know they
were going to snatch him up and throw him back
in H dungeon on H unit and isolate him and
take everything from him. No, we didn't know that. Had
(20:31):
we known, we probably, like I said, would have hugged
him a little longer, held him a little tighter.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
Forgive me.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
I didn't know this, but you will have given and
you didn't know it. You possibly have given your loved
one his last hug.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
You just didn't know it was going to be the
last stuff. I'm sorry I did not realize.
Speaker 9 (20:50):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, I didn't know that there was a specific amount
of contact visits you could or couldn't have how does
that work? How often have you able to hold or
touch your son, Linda, over the years.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
You know he was in he was on h unit
behind glass, and we didn't get to have contact visits
for sixteen of the twenty one years. And then when
the ACLU got involved and said these living conditions are
not it, and so then the prison I guess, to
(21:26):
avoid any problems with the ACLU, decided to move death
row inmates to a unit and decided to let him
have contact visits. So for more years than not, I
didn't get to hug my son. And then the first
(21:49):
time it was amazing. It had been the first time
in probably eighteen years, because he spent two years in
the county jail where we couldn't have contact visits either.
The first time in eighteen years that I had got
to hug my son and it was I can't even
(22:09):
describe how it felt. I cried. And now to know
that he could possibly die, you know, death is forever
and we not get to hug him. That the next
time I may get to hug my sons in a
body bag is very very heart wrenching to me.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Linda, do you all have plans if this does go
through to be there when he is executed.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Now, I we will be here as a family. Tremaine
had to decide he wanted to be there. First of all,
he didn't want any of us to be there. I
told Tremaine it was his choice because he asked me
about a couple of people that he was going to
put on the list. When it's thirty five days before
(23:02):
the execution, they fill out what's called an execution packet,
and they have that on his birthday. Yeah, thirty five
days was on his birthday. And you know, he had
to put down the people who the people who would
witness his execution. You know, who he wants to be
in charge of where his body goes. He has to
(23:23):
put down what he wants for his last meal, and
who'll pick up his property, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
Well, on his birthday, on his birthday, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
And so who will be there in the room.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Well, the only person that'll be in the actual execution
chamber with him should he be executed, would be his
spiritual advisor and whoever's administering the drugs. The other people
sit outside. There's a glass window that's open and people
sit there and witness it. I think the state gets
(23:59):
so many witnesses and Tremaine is allowed I think five witnesses.
I'm not sure five or six or something like that.
I told him that I would respect whoever he wanted
there or just know it couldn't be me. I don't
know that I can even be conscious when ten o'clock
Thursday comes.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
Did he specifically ask, though, that you that certain people
not be there.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yes, he didn't want any of us to be, especially me,
you know he Tremaine is worried, as are all of
us that you know, if you've never lost a child,
it is the most heart wrenching thing and you never
recover from it. You learn how to deal with it,
but you never recover. When my son Jake died, that
(24:48):
was just something spontaneous. It's not something that was planned
out like this. This has been the most tortuous thing,
counting days till you know your son could die. It's
just mentally torturous for all of us, so I can
only imagine what it is for him.
Speaker 6 (25:07):
But it was in a good day in the midst
of all the torture to hear the clemency board at
least recommend clemency for him was that a good day.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
It was a wonderful day. It was a miracle that
my son was far overdue for twenty one years. They
gave a break before they decided to vote, and we
all went outside. I could not go back in because
I could not stand to hear one more shred of
bad news for my son. So all of the rest
(25:42):
of my family went back in there, and I said,
I'm going to stay out here because I can't if
they deny him clemency, they'll have taken me out here
on a stretcher.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
And after I at least after I heard that third yes,
and the room kind of, you know us at least
we kind of just gasped, and some people started clapping,
and they told us to quiet down. And then me
and my uncle Tremaine's girlfriend jumped up and sprinted out
(26:15):
of the out of the building and I straight ran
straight to her car. Said they said yes, And then
I broke down in the parking lot like it was.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I broke down. It was a great day.
Speaker 7 (26:27):
It was.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
It was the what we had been waiting for, that
the person they had painted him to be through the
Attorney General's office. It uh, they finally saw through all
that and and saw that this guy got a raw deal.
(26:48):
You know, he didn't he wasn't adequately represented, none of that.
So yeah, it was a good your reaction.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So you have Andreana running out telling you, they said, yes,
can you tell me what you did, what you thought,
what you felt. I mean, I can't imagine the rush
of emotions.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I felt like for the first time in twenty one years,
I could breathe, if just for that moment, And it
was just for that moment, because it you know, there
was a lot of work to be done after that
to convince the governor to stay his execution to community sentence.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
Well in the husit, How has it gone on that front?
What do you think your chances are now that the
governor will decide in your favor.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
I can say that I hope that. You know, this
is his last year as governor, and all I can
say is that I hope that as a last act
of human compassion for a man who didn't kill anyone,
for a man who sat in that clemency hearing and
(28:02):
admitted I'm a broken person. I've made mistakes. I'm broken.
You know, if I could give this mother her child back,
I would, If I could have been strong enough to
stop my brother that night, I would, but I can't
go back it. I just I just pray that as
(28:25):
the last act of human compassion for someone that he
will he will do the right thing and stand up
and grant my son clemency.
Speaker 7 (28:35):
And Linda.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Much has been made about this law in the state
of Oklahoma that if you're a part of an act,
a criminal act that results in the death of someone,
you are just as culpable as the person who either
pulled the trigger or actually wielded that weapon that ended
(28:57):
that person's life. Feelings about that law, Well.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
First of all, I think it's the stupidest law that
was ever written in the history of the world. I mean,
if there are ten of us sitting here and we've
all got a gun and we all start shooting, only
one of ours bullets can kill somebody. So are we
all culpable by being at the scene. Probably? Yes. But
(29:27):
if I didn't kill this person, then I don't deserve
to die.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Do you think your son deserves to be behind bars
for the rest of his life.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
No. I think my son he was the least culpable
of everybody that anticipated in this crime, and I don't
just say that because he was my son, because Jake,
who did the actual killing, was my son too. I
(29:56):
think Tremaine was with the wrong people, in the wrong place,
at the wrong time. And I know he has shown
great remorse, great sadness, and has just about lost his
mind over it at certain times in the last twenty
one years. You know, I have always said that my
(30:18):
heart goes as a mother, and my heart goes out
to Ronnie With's mother, because I know that pain of
losing a child, whether you lose him to murder or
suicide or car wreck or whatever it is, it doesn't
make it any easier. And I just feel like he
is so remorseful, And you know, I'm also hopeful that
(30:46):
the governor will take into consideration that the victim's family
and the living victim they do not want to remain executed.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Have you been able to speak to the with family
at all over these decades a few decades.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
I haven't, and I you know we have. We have
tread real lightly as a family because there was so
many improprieties in Tremayne's case, you know, ineffective counsel and
prosecutorial misconduct, just a lot of things. So we've had
to tread lightly on what we could say and what
(31:24):
we could do, who we could speak to, because we
didn't want to take the chance of messing up any
chance that he had for any type of relief. It
hasn't been only in the last probably months that we
have really as a family gotten to speak out about
(31:45):
all of this, because he had so many things still
pending in different courts and things like that. I don't know,
i'd I don't even know what words I could say
(32:06):
to Barbara Withff to even to make it easier, because
I know when my son died, there was nothing anyone
could say that made it less painful. This situation with Tremaine.
People tell me all the time, you know, I am
so sorry. I feel bad for you, you know, But
(32:27):
those words, and I know people truly mean it, but
it doesn't make it any easier. So I don't think
there's anything I could say to her. But if there
was anything, is that my heart has always gone out
to her and I am so sorry for the loss
of her son.
Speaker 6 (32:47):
An opportunity to speak to the governor or anybody from
his office.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
No, not us as a family, Tremaine's attorneys have. We
haven't gotten to speak to the governor. I wish I
could speak to the governor because what I would say is,
if this was your son or your father, your brother,
your uncle, would you want someone to show them mercy
(33:12):
and grace or would you be so quick to execute them?
Speaker 9 (33:16):
So?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, what have What have Tremaine's lawyers told you? Have
they given you any reason to feel hope? Have they
cautioned you not to get your hopes up?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
I haven't really talked to Amanda since they saw the
governor yesterday. I know she's very busy filing stuff and
doing this and doing that, and and you know, on
Tremaine's behalf and it's a really busy time for all
of us. So I haven't really spoken to her. I
(33:47):
don't know. Have y'all spoken to you? Heard from uncle yesterday?
Speaker 8 (33:51):
He called us last night and he said that they
had called him and told him that the meeting was
that went really well.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
That sounded good, right, If the meeting went well, is
that a good thing?
Speaker 5 (34:04):
Right? That sounds good.
Speaker 9 (34:05):
It's but we.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Don't know what that means exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
It went well, Yeah, you don't know what that Yeah,
it's pretty remarkable even hearing you say that. I can
we can still we're looking at your faces and we
can still see your reservations. You're unwilling, excited.
Speaker 6 (34:23):
I only had two more things here. I'll start with actually,
because what's going on. When we first started this interview,
I'm not sure what happened, but there was something between
all of us and you, all three of you all
laughed about something, and I was like, wow, I didn't
expect laughter this entire interview. My question is, have you
found a little moments to be happy or to crack
(34:43):
a joke?
Speaker 8 (34:45):
I feel like and not like with anything like going
on with the case. I don't feel like we cracked
jokes with anything with that, but you do try to
find like little things.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Like in the day that do kind of try to.
We do joke with uncle Yeah a lot. Yeah, with
our uncle Al, and they try to.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
Joke with our dad as much as possible, just to
try to keep him in good spirits because he does
hide his most. We even joke with Mama, so we
try to. We me and Arona do try to keep
the mood very light when it comes just Momma, don't make.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Linda.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I want to ask you your son was twenty two
years old when this crime was committed. He's now forty
six years old. How have you seen him change over
these past twenty plus years? How has his life experience
changed him, prison changed him? And perhaps even his faith?
Speaker 4 (35:51):
You know, before Jake died in twenty nineteen, Tremaine was
I would probably say, I'm still always in Jake's shadow
as Jake's little brother. It wasn't until Jake died that
Tremaine came into his own and realized a lot of
(36:14):
things that I think he had been allowing his brother
to block his way of thinking. He had to come
into his own and realize, man, I had the ability,
and it bothers him every day that he says, if
I had just been strong enough to tell my brother no,
none of this would have happened. But I wasn't. And
(36:38):
you know, I mean he was a kid, He was
barely an adult when all this happened. And you know,
I don't think as we grow up and we grow older,
and some of us we never never learned. But I
think we don't think about long term consequences, Like now,
when you get my age, you think about long term
(37:01):
consequences because long term becomes short term, you know, and
I just I have seen Tremaine become a remarkable man.
He's always thinking of other people, he told me the
last time I saw him. He said, Mom, I just
(37:27):
want to say that, whether I live or whether I die,
I just want this everything I've been through to precipitate
a change for the other inmates who they'll try to
execute after me, he said, I just want there to
be a change in this broken system. And so even
(37:48):
in the final moments, when he's death is knocking at
his door, possibly he's still thinking about I want my
life to make a difference in people that still have
to come where I'm at now. And I'm very proud
of him As his mother, I'm proud for him to
be my son. He's amazing.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Uh And to jump on that point, you know there
are obviously the death penalty is a controversial issue in
this country, and people have very strong feelings on both
sides of the fence. I would love to have each
of you talk about the value of Tremayne's life and
what he can give back to this world, to your
(38:34):
family if he's allowed to live.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
Tremaine is amazing. I think that what a waste it
would be for everyone in his world, the people that
know and love him, what a waste it would be
for him to die. He is always trying to give back,
(38:57):
and that's the sigh of him that people don't know.
They don't know, the part of you know him that
while in prison inmates that had no shoes, he would
take shoes off of his own feet and give him
to somebody that didn't have any or couldn't didn't have
money on their books to buy some before he got
(39:18):
sent back over to H unit. He would cook meals
and feed hungry inmates who had no commissary. You know,
that's the kind of man he is. And despite what
he has been going through for the last two decades,
he still finds time to encourage these kids, to encourage
(39:39):
my two great grandkids that I'm raising, to just be
an inspiration to everybody and try to mentor to young
people that this is not what you want to do,
This is not how you want to end up. You
don't you know. I have a little great grandson in
here who's not and he's been going through some things.
(40:02):
And when I took my great grandkids to see him
and he talked to him, he said, he said, you
don't want to end up in here. You don't, this
is not what you want. You know, you need to
stay in school and do good and you know, straighten
up your attitude. And it's just that's why I say,
(40:24):
this just cannot be the end of Tremayne's story. He
has so much left that he wants to give to
the world and the people that are in the world
around him.
Speaker 8 (40:36):
So yeah, like like Grandma said, he's definitely a mentory
an inspiration for us. He's definitely guided us through a
lot of things, whether that'd be like school, like arguments
with people, like he wants to get both sides.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
He doesn't want to hear just one.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
Side and say, oh, well, Brooklyn, you're in the wrong
because of this, and there's no even both sides, and
then he'll give you his honest, unbiased opinion on it.
And just for giving his situation, you wouldn't see, you
wouldn't feel somebody would have such a positive attitude and
such a positive outlook on how you should be in
(41:16):
life and just try to be such like a positive
influence on people, like stay stay in school, like don't
don't argue with your parents all the time, Like make
sure you clean your room up, make sure your your
grades are good because you have He will always tell
you that you have the you have the possibility to
make a change, so do it.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
And you can't do.
Speaker 8 (41:38):
It if you're falling behind, if you're slacking, if you're
getting in trouble all the time, you can't do that.
So my uncle is definitely just a big part of
my life, a big person that keeps me going and
just like keeps me up in the morning and keeps
me keeps from I don't know, going in sane practically,
(42:00):
and he.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Has, uh, he has. Both of his kids were grown
before he got to see them. They were three and
ten months old when when he went to prison, and
so by the time he got to have a relationship
(42:21):
with his two boys, they were grown. And I made
sure that Brendan got to go see him. I took
him to the prison to see him several times. And
you know, I'm not real close. Of course, this has
brought us closer. I wasn't really close to those two
(42:45):
of my grandchildren because growing up they weren't allowed to
be around us. Their families. You know, they punished all
of us for what Tremaine did and what Jake did,
and but I didn't care about that. I just wanted
him to be able to have a relationship, and now
he does. He has a great relationship with both of
(43:06):
his kids, and he is just so positive with them
and encourages his son. He has a son in the military,
and he just encourages him and his other son who's
who lives here in Oklahoma City. He encourages him to
be the best you can be. And even then he goes, Mom,
maybe me coming to prison was a good thing because
(43:28):
it stopped this cycle of criminal activity, of violence of
you know, all of this. It's stopped because my kids
now have you know, they've done good. And you know,
he's just he's just an amazing, amazing, amazing guy.
Speaker 9 (43:50):
He is.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, we are thinking of all of you, your family.
We know how what we don't know. We can only
how difficult these next few hours will be for you all.
But everyone will be waiting to see what Governor Stit decides,
And we are thinking of you, and we are hoping
(44:15):
for the best for your family, and we appreciate you
opening up and being vulnerable and talking about something so
incredibly painful. But I know that the hope is that
there will be changes in the system, and certainly we
know that you hope your loved one, that Trumaine will
(44:35):
be able to continue this beautiful relationship he has with
all of you.
Speaker 9 (44:39):
So thank you, thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah, thank you. This is if there's one thing I
could end this one, it would be our family, his
legal team. They've all been amazing and we are all
stronger than the storm we are going through.
Speaker 9 (44:57):
And there is one thing out, one more thing I
would like to put out there, just for everyone to know.
They have currently moved my uncle to death watch, and
that's they put him in a cell that's right next
to the execution the execution chamber chamber, and he's under
(45:18):
they took they've taken everything from him except a book
and his tablet to be able.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
To call us, to call you, well me.
Speaker 9 (45:28):
They've blocked everybody else's number but mine, and he's under
twenty four hour surveillance. I mean, he doesn't get good meals.
I'll tell you that right now. We've seen that firsthand
in visits with what they what they are feeding him,
and it's not.
Speaker 6 (45:48):
It's what are you the only one that's getting uh,
that's not blocked.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
He's only calling you.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
We have no idea, it just you know. One of
the rules for once they're to death watch, which is
seven days prior to the execution date, is that they
are the the inmate is supposed to have unlimited access
to the phone to stay in touch with the mediate family.
Yet right after the clemency hearing, everybody's numbers blocked. They
(46:20):
won't let us talk to him. And that is very,
very tortuous because as his mother, you think i'd be
the last person they would block.
Speaker 9 (46:30):
But you know, I'm I'm at the point because I'm
the only person you can call, and I'm having to
you know, drive around and come here, you know, to
go to edmind just so we can get a chance.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
To talk to him.
Speaker 6 (46:48):
That seems like that should have been corrected. That's like
that was a mistake that should have or could have
been corrected.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
Journey's attempted to try to but they say, the prison
say it's above them.
Speaker 8 (46:58):
Yeah, they keep saying that it's above their ward and
the their highest person there, it's above her.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (47:07):
Well no, thank you for actually that's a good no
getting to look a good detail to know.
Speaker 5 (47:12):
Thank you for that. And again for I want you.
Speaker 6 (47:14):
All to know, if you'll get a chance, if you'll
listen to podcasts, go back and listen to our Amy
and t We did a full podcast on this case
and following this story before we ever decided we wanted
to reach out. We watch that entire live stream of
that clement'sy hearing every second of it. So we have
been We just want to know where we're coming from.
This is a story and a lot of frankly executions
(47:36):
we've been following this year because the country has been
executing folk left and rank, but it was a case
we were interested in, passionate about, and quite frankly, we
can say out loud we're on your side about on
this one in a lot of ways. So really we
wish you all the best with what you're going through
and hopefully we talk to you again in better circumstances.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Thank you guys, And
as of this recording, Tremainwood is set to be executed
by lethal injection. It's set to take place in the
state of Oklahoma at ten am Local time eleven am
Eastern time here and again the governor Governor Kevin Stidt
has until that ten am deadline to intervene if he
(48:20):
so chooses, But it should be noted during his tenure
as governor, the Pardons and Parole Board has recommended clemency
in four cases. He has only granted it in one case,
and that was back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
And since he took office as.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Governor in twenty nineteen, sixteen people have been executed in
that state. So this is certainly a familiar situation that
his office says he takes very seriously.
Speaker 5 (48:48):
But we wait.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
I learned so much from these ladies about the process.
Many of these cases we covered. I didn't I didn't know,
And I think that was the most gut wrenching part
that the hug they gave him, they didn't realize it
was going to be the last. They will get to
see him one more time, but through a glass. This
is just again we follow these cases. We always say
ropes are ever any little bit the question of any kind.
(49:13):
Let's err on the side of not killing somebody because
you can't correct that mistake. This is certainly one of
those that rises to the level of something not quite right.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
So no rush.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
And also we should note the family of the victims
don't want the execution to go forward. So I always
say I will I will be on board with any
law if they say, we'll let the victims family.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Decide, you know, and we have covered so many of
these cases at this point that it is something that yes,
I mean, there's a lot of things we'd love to
change about our legal system, but certainly that's one of
the glaring issues. If the family of the victims do
not want the convicted killer of their loved one to
be executed, that should be the final, say period period A.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Right, folks, We always appreciate you spending some time with us.
This is when we're keeping a close eye on as
always top right corner of your Apple podcast app where
our show page it says follow there you can click that.
This one will have updates. We don't want you to
have to go hunting for some of these updates we
do have. This is when we're going to stay on
top of so by all means, click that and keep
hanging with us. We always appreciate you, folks for hemy robot.
(50:22):
I'm TJ.
Speaker 5 (50:23):
Holmes. We'll talk to y'all real soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Medal of Honor: Stories of Courage
Rewarded for bravery that goes above and beyond the call of duty, the Medal of Honor is the United States’ top military decoration. The stories we tell are about the heroes who have distinguished themselves by acts of heroism and courage that have saved lives. From Judith Resnik, the second woman in space, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice, these are stories about those who have done the improbable and unexpected, who have sacrificed something in the name of something much bigger than themselves. Every Wednesday on Medal of Honor, uncover what their experiences tell us about the nature of sacrifice, why people put their lives in danger for others, and what happens after you’ve become a hero. Special thanks to series creator Dan McGinn, to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society and Adam Plumpton. Medal of Honor begins on May 28. Subscribe to Pushkin+ to hear ad-free episodes one week early. Find Pushkin+ on the Medal of Honor show page in Apple or at Pushkin.fm. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkin Subscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plus
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com