A Missing UFO General, $19 Million Cosby Verdict, and a Bachelorette Arrest

A retired Air Force general with ties to classified programs vanishes without a trace—no phone, no trail, and no clear answers. A jury awards millions in a decades-old civil case against Bill Cosby, reigniting questions about accountability and justice. Attorney David Ryan joins us, breaking down the rise in cybercrime, online threats, and how everyday digital behavior can quickly turn into a criminal case. Tune in for all the details. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's March twenty third, and guess what.
We have a stacked night of headlines. I'm Stephanie Leidecker
here as always with Courtney Armstrong and body move in.
We have Tahar, our producer in the hot seat, and
we just have Sam Work in.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
The boards right now.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
So if you want to call him eight eight eight
three to one crime because listen, we have a huge
show ahead and a stacked night of headlines. The Air
Force General with access to classified information about UFOs. We
discussed this a few weeks ago. He is still missing.
He's completely vanished. And now there's a second signist being

(01:01):
added to this list and they've had some crossover. Also,
Bill Cosby back in court civil lawsuit. The woman who
accused him of sexual abuse has now been awarded over
nineteen million dollars and guess what fifty three years later.
So justice might be slow, but there is so much

(01:22):
to unpack there. Also, we have a very special guest tonight.
We have Attorney David Ryan. He's going to join us
to discuss the rise of online threats, something we've been
talking about so so much recently. So he's going to
give us some actionable advice and also some disturbing allegations
that are really reshaping the legacy of civil rights icon

(01:43):
Caesar Chavez.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
I even get worked up as I'm talking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
So real action happening in this case as well, so
so much to talk about. Keep those talkbacks coming. If
you haven't left one recently, please do. And if remember,
there is swag written all over it. So ladies, Happy Monday.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Happy Monday.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Today it was a real Monday exactly. But now we
are here, I'm excited. We have a lot to dig
against you tonight.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Sometimes a Monday can be a Sunday, Senior, or it
is a straight Monday.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
And maybe today we call it Friday the sixth, like
Henry the sixth. Right, it's Friday the sixth, and then
tomorrow will be Friday the fifth, and then we'll get.

Speaker 6 (02:30):
All the way down to one and boom, there you.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Go, it's Friday.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, there's just count those blessings that hopefully you are
not online at an airport right now.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
I'm battling through that. Wows have been ringing all day.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
We've had people that work with us that are being
grounded at airports and it's really just a mess.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
You know, TSA is not getting paid and as.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
A result, people understandably have to call in and now
they're worried for losing their health insurance. It's been over
a month, so they're shorthanded during spring break in a
very very popular travel time and the lines could.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Be up to four hours.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
But the good news is apparently ice is the answer,
which you know, we shall see how that all shakes out.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
Well, it's all what like homeland security, right, like it
all falls under homeland security. So maybe maybe right, maybe
there's some crossover training there, right.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, I mean training being the operative word there, because
it doesn't appear that they've had too much TSA training
or training like X rays.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah the end, So.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Listen, our hearts are with the TSA agents. Though, who
are apps who are really showing up for free? And again,
I know we say this all the time, working for
free for what thirty eight days now or something there's
no real end in sight, and yeah, I don't even
have words for it. And anybody who is serving us
right now throughout the world, all of our servicemen and women,

(03:56):
we are thinking of you. We are praying with you
and for you, and thank you from the bottom of
our hearts.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
And get home safe, please, that's right.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
So speaking of working for you in the government and whatnot,
right this retired Air Force general, we're gonna go. We've
been talking about this for a hot minute, but it
seems to be gaining some momentum, you know, like it
seems to be gaining some momentum. So for our listeners,
maybe that missed the last couple of times we've talked
about it.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
We're gonna tell it.

Speaker 5 (04:24):
From A to Z because when it first came out,
we we were I think live when the news broke
that he was missing, so we talked about it a
little bit, but we didn't really have a lot of information,
and then the next time we talked about it, it
was just an update. So we're going to do from
start to finish, you know, excellent little ketchup, great, really
smarttle ketch up, a little set the table so that
when we talk about it in the future. The table

(04:45):
has been set, right. Okay, so this retired era Air
Force he was a major for it. I guess he
was right. He was a major general. His name is
William Neil McCasland. Okay, no been missing for nearly a
month after vanishing from his home in Albertquerque, New Mexico,

(05:07):
and investigators are describing this as a narrow and unexplained
window of time. And I'm going to get into that
in a minute. McCaslin, who he once led the Air
Force Research Laboratory. You guys like this is a smart cookie.
This guy he led the Air Force Research Laboratory. Just
let that sink in. It's one of the military's most

(05:29):
advanced science and technology divisions, and he had access to
highly sensitive aerospace and defense programs. Now, since he went missing,
there have been no confirmed sightings of him leaving his home.
There's no digital trail and almost no physical evidence pointing
to where he went missing. Right and then and then

(05:54):
there's a second disappearance that we were talking about that
might be kind of tied to this one. We're going
to get a second however, We're going to go over
the timeline of mccaslin's disappearance. First, Okay, so he went
missing on February twenty seventh, sometime between late morning and
early afternoon. His wife went out, she was running errands

(06:17):
and doing things, and when she came home, he was gone. Now,
investigators have narrowed it down to a one hour window.
He went missing in one hour. So authorities say there's
no surveillance footage. There's no doorbell video or neighborhood camera
evidence showing him leaving the house. His cell phone and

(06:38):
all his wearables were left behind, you know, eliminating the
ability to ping him somehow, right, like track his movements
or you know at you know, find me on your
Apple device, nothing like that. There's no way we can
electronically find him, right, He doesn't have his Apple Watch,
he doesn't have a device with a you know, tracker

(06:59):
on it.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Nothing.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
He doesn't have his eyeglasses either, right, his cell phone, yeah,
his glasses.

Speaker 5 (07:05):
So at the same time, there there are certain personal
items that are missing as well, so a wallet and
a backpack and a firearm. And this is creating some
conflicting signals about whether he left voluntarily or under unusual circumstances. Right, So,
despite you know, extensive search efforts, including involvement from the FBI.

Speaker 6 (07:30):
They've they've deployed drones, ground teams.

Speaker 5 (07:33):
There have been no confirmed sightings of him since that day.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
So and you'll remember his wife had spoken out, and
his wife spoke out and kind of really kind of
hushed the idea of this being maybe connected to some
of the secret information.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
He may be pretty too.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
And she even made sort of a you know, a
you know, dark humor kind of a joke about, well,
I guess he may have been, you know, taken by alien.
They they might have beamed him up. That would, you know,
make as much sense as anything at this point.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
But yeah, there really is.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
First of all, I find it interesting that it's not
on the front page of everything. This is somebody who's
a bit of a national treasure. He's worked very hard
for the United States government. Apps they should find him.
Like this should be all hands on deck, Nancy Guthrie style.
We are smart, we are masses, we care, we are capable.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Let's find him.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
They have deployed you know, expansive search teams, and they've
combed areas surrounding Albuquerque, including like really remote desert train
and like hiking zones, but again they haven't confirmed any
trace of him. But a piece of clothing was recovered
during the search, but authorities haven't confirmed whether it belongs

(08:53):
to him or not. But from my recollection, it was
like a gray sweatshirt that had air force right across it.
Officials haven't disclosed any condition or any details about the
condition of the house, like we don't know like did
they go in and wor things disarray. You know, they
haven't given us any information on any of the forensic
findings or whether or not there was like a sign

(09:15):
of disturbance, you know, like we're we're closed strewn about
from the dresser and I think we have been. You know,
these are key elements that remain unclear right now. Law
enforcement also has not publicly identified any persons of interest
or suspects obviously, and they haven't clarified whether or not
the case of being treated as criminal yet.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
If you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight,
and we are so glad you are with us. I'm
Courtney Armstrong here with Stephanie Leidecker and body movin. We
love to hear from you always and are at eight
A eight three one Crime Sam is in the studio
to take your calls at any time, and we are
talking about the disappearance of William near Mcastland and it's

(10:03):
now going into several weeks where he has been gone.
I had a question body, which is that a firearm
was with him? But I have read so many me too,
so many varying reports. I feel like that piece of
coverage is hasn't been clear from what.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
I've been reading.

Speaker 5 (10:24):
So last week when we were talking about it, I
had mentioned that the law enforcement said that the firearm
and the wallet were in the home, And you guys
are like what, And I was like, yeah, I'm reading
it right now, and I was literally reading it for
all one of the news sources. So after that night,
you know, we went and looked and there's conflicting reports

(10:46):
right now. In fact, right before going live tonight, Taha
was on the phone with the sheriff's office trying to
get clarification on this because it's a really big this
is a really big shill. This is like either the
gun was there or it wasn't. But again we don't
have any clarification. There are there's many credible websites and
you know, by websites, I mean news outlets that are

(11:08):
saying that it wasn't and some and I don't know,
maybe it's just the way they're wording it that's a
little bit confusing, But there is some confusion there.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, Like even just right now, the New York Post
is reporting that he left with his boots, his wallet,
and a revolver. By the way, leaving your home with
a revolver is very intentional. So he's going on a
walk or a hike without his wallet or with his wallet,
but without his phone and his eyeglasses. Yet you're taking

(11:38):
your wallet and your revolver, right, those seem important details.
Those I leave the house every second. If it were me,
the phone and the eyeglasses would never be with me,
and I would have forgotten them and would be looking
for those. I have a sneaking suspicion this guy is not,
you know, absent minded. He doesn't have any signs of dementia,

(11:59):
according to his wife, and his wife exactly, there was
nothing depressing happening in his world. But to walk out
of the house with your boots and your wallet and
a revolver, you know, Initially, I thought, oh, maybe he
to try to take his own life or something really tragic.

Speaker 5 (12:14):
Well, because that's what it implies. If he took his
wallet and his revolver, right, and that's it. It implies
that he left the home to you know, he's bringing
his ID for identification, right, and his gun for you know,
sad situation. So yeah, it's a very important detail that
we're still looking for clarification on. But I wanted to

(12:34):
talk about the second disappearance if we could real quick.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, So this is an.

Speaker 6 (12:39):
Interesting crossover with David of all things.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Right, So David the pop star, you were refering David
the pop.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
Star like you wouldn't expect me to say that. However,
there is a six degrees of separation here kind of.
So the second disappearance involves a high level a high
level woman. She was a rocket scientist and her name
is Monica Reza, and she had professional ties to this
Air Force General William McCaslin. And she also disappeared under

(13:10):
unusual circumstances prior to this case. So Monica was last
seen on June twenty second of last year, so just
over the summer, around nine am. She was hiking near
Mount Waterman in California's Angels National Forest. Well, she vanished
during the hike and has not been seen or heard
from since. Literally, the person in front of her was

(13:32):
talking to her, stepped forward a little bit, turned around,
and she was not there, and they haven't seen her since. So,
just like the Air Force General, her disappearance has been
left very little physical evidence, with no clear trail explaining
where either of them went. Okay, And because of these ties, right, well,

(13:54):
guess who worked on this case. I'm guessing DAVID'SI the
PI right that has been hired by David's landlord, also
worked on Monica's case. And he he said, you know
that he has seen several reports comparing the two disappearances

(14:15):
right between Monica and you know, Monica Reza from the
JPL scientist and General Macaslon.

Speaker 6 (14:23):
And here's what he said.

Speaker 5 (14:24):
I have seen several news reports comparing the disappearance of
General Macassland to that of Monica Reza, a JPL scientist
who previously worked on top secret projects. I was heavily
involved in the search for Monica from the beginning and
continued until weather conditions forced us to stop last winter.
I probably spent thirty separate days searching for her and

(14:45):
spoke extensively with the group she was hiking with that day.
I am completely confident that there is no connection between
the two cases other than the fact that they both
worked in similar fields. I planned to begin assisting with
the search again in the coming weeks, and I I
hope we will finally locate her in the treacherous terrain
where she disappeared. So isn't that interesting though, because yeah,

(15:06):
we were just looking about you know, Listen, Steve Fisher
has been working on missing persons cases for decades. I
think he's located something like thirty people. So if he
says there's no connection, I tend to agree with him,
and I probably sound like a little bit of a simp.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
I'm not.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
I just do trust his instincts when it comes to
missing people.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
What is it? Simp? What is that?

Speaker 5 (15:28):
It's like somebody who if you sit like I simp
for you, Stephanie, that means you can never do any wrong.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
By the way, Okay, that was nice, Yes, stick around.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
When we come back, we're.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
Going to talk about the fact that a jury awarded
millions of dollars in a decade's old Bill Cosby case.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Keep it here, true grime tonight.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as
always with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So listen,
we will get to some new developments in Bachelor Nation,
some more fallout. Since the conversation last night, We've gotten
so many talkbacks and calls and dms, so we will

(16:25):
get to those, and we will keep those coming. But
also this landmark decision civilly speaking against Bill Cosby for
nineteen point five million dollars a civil lawsuit from fifty
three years ago. It's like wild listen. Sometimes justice does
take a long time. But I am so I don't

(16:48):
know what the word is. Excited isn't the right word?
But glad, I suppose or relieved that we're seeing some justice. Courtney,
do you want to fill us in sort of in
the backstory here?

Speaker 4 (16:58):
Absolutely so this civil verdict against Bill Cosby, as you said,
it's nineteen point five million that's been awarded to a plaintiff,
Donna Mott Singer, and she filed the civil lawsuit in
twenty twenty three, in which she accuses Cosby of drugging
and sexually assaulting her back in nineteen seventy two. At

(17:20):
the time, she was working as a waitress in Salsildo.
And what's kind of wonderful aside from this woman Mott
Singer getting her comeuppance, you know what, is due to her,
it's also bringing renewed attention to these decades old allegations
and it's raising new questions about accountability. Years after Bill

(17:44):
Cosby's criminal conviction was overturned, do you guys remember that
fact of.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Course, yes, oh yeah, because it was a non prosecutorial agreement.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, And so Bill Cosby has been free walking around
except for when he is embroiled in depth positions, which
is quite a bit of his time. So a little
bit more about this specific case. Donna Martins had says
that Bill Cosby invited her to one of his shows.
He gave her wine and a pill that she thought

(18:15):
was aspirin. However, she became disoriented and lost consciousness, waking
up in her own bed wearing only her underwear and
believing she had been assaulted. And this is one of
the oldest claims that's now being heard in court, and
this is under revived legal windows.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Which is a big deal.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
He also, in a deposition previously, had in fact said
that he had been giving her and perhaps others quayludes.
So quayludes, you know, again a little bit before my time.
But those were a straight up pill that made you.
It was a drug, right that was used I assume socially,
but could also cause you to be disoriented and really

(19:01):
knocked unconscious kind of the way maybe GHB or some
of the more street drugs that you see today.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Where people are getting roofeed.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
But essentially he roofeed her with a kualude and then yeah,
took advantage of her. And imagine all these years has
passed and now he's finally going to see some action,
and of course it has to be the wallet.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
And absolutely, and the only reason this lawsuit was allowed
was under California's Sexual Abuse and Cover Up Accountability Act,
and that act temporary temporarily lifts the statute of limitations
for older cases. So I call that a big win,
even though obviously no one should have to go through

(19:46):
this all the captain obvious stuff, but again, a little
bit of justice five decades plus later.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, and this excuse me.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
There are more and sixty other women who have accused
Bill Cosby of very very similar sexual misconduct over all
these decades, and the vast majority have never been prosecuted criminally.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
And we're not surprised.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
I mean, cut to now twenty twenty six, and we're
seeing whether it's in the Epstein files where a minimum
of one two hundred girls were sexually abused. Pam BONDI
just said this open air, you know, in front of
a hearing, that that is not up for dispute. Yet
still no charges have been done. If you look back

(20:34):
on Bill Cosby, can you imagine fifty three years ago,
how difficult it must have been for a young woman
to come forward to say that a celebrity assaulted her
like it didn't happen, and nobody really believed anybody. Sixty
women have come forward for Bill Cosby, and he comes
over there on his little rocker, coming in looking all elderly,
kind of like Diddy did when he went to trial.

(20:56):
These are abusers, and I feel slightly hopeful, and by
slightly I mean very hopeful that we are seeing a
title wave. A title wave is hitting where the light
is coming out from the dark period. And now you
know it might take a second, it might be a
slow drip, but nineteen point five million dollars is an

(21:17):
astounding settlement and long overdue.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Absolutely, and ps you said, look and old Bill Cosby
is at this point eighty eight years old, so he's
he's pretty old.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
No, I'm sorries though he doesn't apologize for anything, you know, Weinstein,
you know, sits down to do a nice little interview
behind bars. There's no there's no you know, apology, there's
no remorse. There's no regret for the behavior. The regret
is that they have been publicly shamed or in some
cases shamed and released.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's not as though people have completely ostracized them, and
if they.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
Have, it's deserved, warranted, absolutely anyway. So that's what we'll
call the good news. And as you said, Stephanie, maybe
this is you know, one more peg in the board
to get us toward justice for all body.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
What do you know.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
About another bachelorette issues.

Speaker 5 (22:18):
I don't know how much more I can take of this, Honestly,
I can take it a lot. I don't know how
I like, I need not to be talking about the Bachelorette,
but I'm heavily invested. So here, here we are I
really am invested in this scandal? So there's been another scandal,
you guys in the Bachelor. What do you want to

(22:39):
call it?

Speaker 6 (22:39):
The bachelor'sphear, Bachelor Nation, Bachelor Nation. Okay, let's let's do that. Bachelination. Well,
this one's.

Speaker 5 (22:46):
Tied to a former contestant named James McCoy Taylor. All right,
and he's again in some legal trouble. Right, So he
first appeared on season twelve of The Bachelorette. So past
your time, Steph, Right.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
I was season two in season one of the Bachelorette,
So okay, this is one hundred years ago, and it
was a very tight ship at that time, like Cassier
special was like they were not grading on a curve.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Which maybe has changed a bit over time.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
Well, so this was in twenty sixteen when he was
on the Bachelorette and the bachelor at the time was
Jojoe Fletcher. Well, he's been arrested again, because he's been
arrested before, but he's been arrested again in connection to
an assault case involving a teenage girl. And this Kate
states back to twenty twenty four and he pled guilty
already and he made a deal. But with this latest arrest,

(23:43):
the case that brought him to this is now back
in the spotlight. So he first rose to national attention
on The Bachelorette helt he built a following after appearing
on Jojoe Fletcher's twenty sixteen season.

Speaker 6 (23:56):
And this all.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
Stands from an incident on April fourth of twenty twenty four,
or what a nineteen year old girl told woman I guess.
Nineteen year old woman told police she met James at
a bar in College Station, Texas, and according to investigators,
the two of them went back to his house, where
the woman says the situation escalated. She told police that
she when she tried to leave, James blocked the exit

(24:20):
and physically restrained her, preventing her from getting out.

Speaker 7 (24:23):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
The woman said that he used his body weight to
pin her down and at one point took her phone,
cutting off any ability she had to like reach out
and like, you know, call for help. Right, So she
eventually she manages to break free, She flees the house
and later she calls the police. Right while officers documented
visible injuries and physical evidence that they had supported her

(24:47):
account of what happened. So James he denied the obligation,
saying the encounter was consensual and saying I would never
hurt anybody. So fast forward a year, right in April
twenty twenty five, he pled guilty to charges tied to
that case, and he was sentenced to community service, finds
and anchor management. And this is the key part. As

(25:11):
part of that agreement, he was ordered to have no
contact with the woman and was banned from the North
Gate entertainment district where they first met.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
Right.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
Well, now he's been arrested again in connection to this
same case. So officials haven't said exactly what he did,
but it's believed that he broke the rules of his
plea deal, which included no contact with the victims staying
away from certain areas, and that alone is obviously enough
to land him back in jail.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Wow, And we've gotten so much chatter, you know, dms
and you know, different talkbacks, et cetera, about even just
last night's discussion Lorette.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
That's one of those sort of buttons because listen, this
is a really complicated on and you know, it's pretty
unprecedented to date. There's so many people that are also
saying play the show. We grew up on Jersey Shore
play the show, you know, like some there is a

(26:13):
call for from audiences that they straight up just want
to see it, you know. And then I was having
a discussion earlier today with a former colleague, and you know,
we were kind of talking and one of the things
that was sort of surprising just about this particular bachelorette.
You know, obviously she was on the Netflix show and
she was getting out of a marriage or you know,
a relationship with her baby daddy and has two children,

(26:37):
and she was very vocal about the fact that right
before her you know interview, in her first day at
The Bachelor, she was you know, basically having sex with
her ex and her baby daddy, the one that's in
question in all of these conversations, Dakota. So she wasn't
really looking for true love, you know, if you're still

(26:58):
completely entangled with your ex and you're you know, making
The Bachelor at its core, it is actually a show
to find true love, or at least it was back.

Speaker 8 (27:09):
In the day.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Or is it just like you know, shock TV.

Speaker 5 (27:13):
I don't know people are on people on TV for TV.
But you know, it's so funny about that is. As
you were saying that about her, Sam was like nodding
his head, yes, because he pays attention to that show.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Yes, Sam, don't you?

Speaker 6 (27:24):
Sam is like invested in the show.

Speaker 9 (27:26):
I do.

Speaker 10 (27:26):
And I feel like it's one thing where you know,
this stuff happens on camera, because that's kind of controlled chaos.
It's another where it's like it's off camera, it's in
their personal lives, and that's.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, pretty utally greet Yeah, Like so what is the
point here?

Speaker 2 (27:40):
You have a bachelorette, You have all of these guys
taking off time from work and investing thirty days of
their lives to go on this to allegedly find love.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Well, we don't know that. I mean, I don't know
all of them, but I don't think all them are.
Maybe I'm just all of them.

Speaker 6 (27:57):
No, of course not.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
And ideally you think you're gonna go you with somebody
who's a not you know, an abuser or somebody who's
in the throes of a domestic violent relationship, but also
somebody who also equally wants to find love or be
in a relationship.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
And if you're completely you know.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Messing around with your ex just before you go onto
the show, I don't know even as you know, producers
back in the day ta how correct me?

Speaker 3 (28:21):
If I'm wrong, that would have been foul play.

Speaker 8 (28:23):
That would have been completely a no no, And just
wonder I.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Would I think it would have. You would have been
kicked out of production day one. Maybe they would have
delayed the shoot. But the fact that they shot the
whole thing and now it's being benched is it's so
confusing to me.

Speaker 11 (28:38):
Well, I had an issue a little bit also with
the you know, the five contestants that are there five
men that are suing right.

Speaker 8 (28:45):
Now over it? So maybe there is a world where
they were. You know, you both could be true you
were looking for love?

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, it could be both, right, get a.

Speaker 11 (28:52):
Little clout and you want Yeah, there is a world
I think both exist. But going back to what you
were saying, Yeah, early on when we worked back at
the Bachelor, you know horse and Buggy days, when we
had to go to work in that format, I think
at that time they really really were scrutinized. I mean,
my part of my job was to let people know,
sorry you felt failed a psych evaluation test, or sorry

(29:14):
you have some sort of a sexually transmitted disease.

Speaker 8 (29:17):
So you can't be a part of it.

Speaker 6 (29:18):
Like, I mean, oh my god, no way. How many people?

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Did you have a lot of people?

Speaker 11 (29:24):
Well, I did sign something that but I supposed to
even say some of this, but so I was a
specific number. But the worst thing in the world is
to tell someone has no idea that they have these things.

Speaker 8 (29:35):
Bad news, you're not going to be on the show.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Sorry you have That's also telling.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Like they were doing every level of STD testing, psych evaluations,
you know, doing a deep die background investigation. If there
was any sense that you had suicidal tendencies, if there
was any sort of abuse in your life period, whether
you were a part of the abusive relationship or you
were kind of prone it, maybe you were raised in

(30:01):
an extreme relationship or in an extreme household. Those will
be things to take into consideration psychologically speaking, not because
that doesn't make you lovable and a great catch, but
mostly it might not make you a great fit for
thirty days in this pressure cooker to love, because it's
really an intense schedule. I mean, body, you know, it's
thirty aggressive days.

Speaker 6 (30:22):
I was there for like sixty days. It was terrible.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
Even when we worked on shows, I would come out
a body bag. You know, you really do.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
It's exhausting. Every night, every everybody cries all day. Even
the staff starts to cry. It's just because the.

Speaker 6 (30:39):
Whole every scene, I'm crying. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, they always say, you know, psychologically, what is it
six days in Within six days, everybody sort of starts
to kind of get emotional and you know, starts to
cry and also starts to share.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
And become vulnerable. You know, it's all part of the process.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
But if you have somebody who has some real late
and stuff that hasn't been dealt with again, it doesn't
make you unlovable or you know, unable to find love.
It just might not make you a great person to
have in this house for thirty days with so many
other people with cameras in your face. It might make
you more aggressive, it might make you more sensitive, It

(31:18):
might make you it might trigger you.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, it's very triggering. It's very triggering isolated environments.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, Hey, make sure you stay with us because we
have an amazing guest coming up. He's an attorney who's
also going to be giving us real tips on sort
of all this online craziness that we've been talking about
you know, stuff that Courtney's been covering, the seven six
four network, online hate groups and kind of how to
keep us safe, So please stay with us. And this

(31:47):
devastating news that we've been covering closely. Caesar Chavez, you know,
who was this activist and civil rights greatness. It seems
like the ties are changing in that and he's being
really accused of some awful things and as a result,
major change is in the air.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Like that thought he was really devastating.

Speaker 5 (32:10):
Actually, I mean, like person, this is just really sad,
so an upsetting. So there's new and disturbing, you know,
allegations and they're really you know, they're really reshaping the
legacy of civil rights icon Caesar Shavas. Okay, he's the
co founder of the United farm Workers and a figure

(32:32):
long celebrated for championing labor rights. Well, a recent investigation
and new public statements, including one from his longtime colleague
Dolores Werta, accused Caesar Shavaz of sexually abusing women and
girls during the height of the farm worker movement. Excuse me, frog.

(32:55):
So these allegations, and you know, some are dating back decades,
they're now prompting a national reckoning over how to reconcile,
you know, his impact with these claims, and whether or
not institutions should continue to honor his name. So here's
what's all about the allegations and who are making them?

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
So, in March of twenty twenty six, Delores Wertha publicly
stated that Caesar Shabas sexually abused her decades ago, and
she said she stayed silent to protect the farm worker movement.
And this is such I mean, this woman, Dolores wortha
to me, Oh my god, what an amazing woman. She

(33:36):
put aside her own need for personal justice to help others.
I mean, think about that, Think about suffering in silence
for decades because you want to protect the farm worker movement.
So she really said it sounds to me, and the
way I read this is that she really sacrificed her

(33:57):
own happiness for many, many, many other peop people. So
this now, Dolores, she's a longtime labor leader herself, okay,
And her allegation makes her the highest profile accuser, which
really is adding weight to this broader investigation into Caesar
Sshava's behavior. So this New York Times investigation cited evidence

(34:20):
that Caesar Shavas allegedly groomed and abused multiple young girls
during his leadership with the United farm Workers, and some
allegations are dating back to the nineteen sixties, including claims
involving underage girls connected to the movement. Huerta Doloresauata described

(34:40):
the experience of something she carried for decades later, saying,
now she understands herself as a survivor of sexual abuse.
Oh my god, this is just so upsetting to me.
I mean, these it's so upsetting. They're very vulnerable. They're
very vulnerable, these people, and you know, it just breaks
my heart that this is now, you know, coming out,

(35:05):
and you know, he just wasn't the man everyone thought
he was.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
Thank god, it's coming out.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
I mean, I feel like this, this flood is never ending,
seemingly well, you know, great people on the nose that
we all admire and look up to, that are famous
and wealthy and elite, and it's so upsetting to see
this fall from grace. But thank goodness, you's speaking up
and that others can hear that silence is not the

(35:32):
answer and helps nobody other than the predator.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, And you know, advocates are saying
that all these allegations highlight this really broader culture of
silence and fear that exists within parts of the farm
worker movement, especially for the women. You know, these women are,
like I said, very vulnerable, and you know, for him
to take advantage of that situation and the environment he
was in just really just repulses me.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Sickening. It's sickening.

Speaker 5 (36:00):
Orts are suggesting abuse and harassment were often underreported, of
course to power dynamics, and that's something of immigration, fears,
right and retaliation in agricultural communities. So you have to
understand the power imbalance here and the power that Caesar
like had over these people. I mean literally can take

(36:21):
you in and take you out. You know, I brought
you here, I can bring you back.

Speaker 7 (36:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
And so people say they suffer in silence and fear,
and women in the movement have sense built their own
advocacy efforts, including campaigns like the Bandana Project, which I
hope everybody goes and researches. And this project is basically
created to address sexual violence in the fields. So you're working,

(36:45):
right you maybe you're harvesting asparagus, okay, and you're getting
sexually assaulted while you're at work. Yeah, it's horrible. And
that's just hard labor too.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Oh it's still the son.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
This is not an easy job. Now you have somebody
who you really admire in your whole life in so
many ways, is dedicated to you. I mean we all have,
you know, praised him. Frankly, you know, there's so many
streets named after him, and schools and museums and roads
in Los Angeles specifically. I can think of many things

(37:21):
that are named after him for what seemed like all
the right reasons, and then you find out this clown
has been taking advantage of all these young girls.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
It's just also, I don't recall if it was indeed
Dolores Wuerta or if it was another woman. I believe
it was Dolores who said something to the effect of
Caesar Chave said from when she was thirteen, he knew
they should be together. So just really, you know, the grooming,

(37:55):
which we've spoken about so much, and so many capacities.

Speaker 5 (37:59):
Yeah, you know, and you know there's a lot of
things now tied to you know, Caesar's legacy that are
now in question too, which I to me, aren't all that,
you know, the more important thing is justice and recognition
of what he's done. But for other people, legacy is
a big deal. And you know, following all these allegations,

(38:19):
organizations that have been tied to Caesar, have they been
canceling their events and all their public celebrations, including stepping
back from Caesar Shava's Day observations, which is coming up
it's March thirty first.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, they wasted no time, by the way, and Courtney,
what do you agree these This is like very fast acting,
like they are looking quick down anything and everything that
can be associated, which I do.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
Have to say, and we were speaking about this a
little bit before the show. Yes, the action is swift,
it is public, and it's really visible down or up
to as you said, body cancer, canceling.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Caesar Javas Day. Well, to feel like this is.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
You know, something that goes against all of the other
people of high regard. All these white men with tons
of cash. Their names are getting pulled off of buildings
per se or.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
No, they're getting put on buildings real time. No, no,
they're getting put on buildings as we speak regularly. There
a list of names that are in the Epstein class
is abhorrent and there has been no action taken whatsoever,
Pam Bondi or Department of Justice. They have specifically acknowledged
twelve hundred women have either come forward or testified or

(39:39):
made reports with the FBI over twenty years, and they
don't have enough information to take a case that one
single person. Yet, Caesar Chavez, we all love and have
respected he's going down and boom.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Action and taken a holiday back.

Speaker 6 (39:54):
And don't take it wrong. We do think Caesar should
be going down, right.

Speaker 5 (39:58):
Yes, not that all the other ones need to as well,
Like I appreciate the same standard.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Right exactly that I appreciate the action ability here.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
You know, it's I don't know what that says, but
it doesn't really speak to Yeah, where are all the other ones? Right?
This is my point.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
This feels to me like the exception that proves the rule,
and this exception is it's a lot easier for a
man with brown skin who was the face of a
immigrant farm immigrant.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, exactly, to exactly, And that's because the white male
ex stem class wants us all fighting amongst ourselves.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
We're all racially divided.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh, we don't want the gays in the streets in
the this color and that color.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
They're all enemies.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Uh you know what, news flash, if you think the
person across the street from you, who you've never spoken to,
who is a different color than you, or a different gender,
or a different they identify different than you, please go
across the street and just give them a hug. Because
this has all been manufactured. We've all been fighting with
each other because the people above us have wanted it

(41:09):
that way. And I see action like this, a holiday
being removed that certainly doesn't give these young ladies back
their lives, but it's a start, and it's a show
that we are not celebrating this demonic behavior.

Speaker 6 (41:23):
Period period period snap. Well guess what.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Stuff.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
That's not all they're doing, though, So cities and institutions
are also on top of, you know, stepping back from
you know, the Caesar Shabas Observation Day. They're also removing
statues and guess what, they're renaming streets. We were just
talking about the street. That's great, and they're reconsidering honors
that have been associated with Caesarshavas. I mean, listen, if

(41:51):
you live in LA and you live on Caesar Shauvas Street.

Speaker 8 (41:55):
You're going to be getting your name.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
We know you're going to be getting a new name,
or if you live in Irvine, you know somewhere right.
You know, I grew up in Orange County and it's
a lot of farm work out there. I mean people,
I don't think people understand, like in California at least,
like it is a lot of agriculture work there. And
these are people that were my friends, you know what

(42:18):
I mean, Like, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (42:20):
It's just it's really hard to work. So it's so
it's such hard work.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
I see things on the news today even I know
I'm jumping subjects right now, but I know we mentioned
it earlier, but even as we're talking, it's popping up again,
having ice agents at the airports and tackling a young woman.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
With her child.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
It is so upsetting if you don't have a visceral reaction,
no matter what your politics, no matter what your religious beliefs.
Since when do we all have to be exactly alike?
Like we should be celebrating all the differences. I thought
that was the whole point. And seeing that in an
air I thought that was so regulating and disgusting. I
just I feel like we're all about to shift, and

(43:02):
I think the masses we are good, and all of
this noise, it's going to keep coming up and bubbling
up until enough is enough. I don't know what the
answer is after that, but I don't know. I'm getting
itchy and my skin.

Speaker 8 (43:14):
I'm glad it's all coming out, though, I mean.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
I want to be productive about it.

Speaker 8 (43:19):
I just thought I was just going to say that
for me, like I don't.

Speaker 11 (43:21):
I don't know if anyone else has this, but we've
talked tonight about two different public figures that I've had
a lot of respect for growing up, like Bill Cosby.

Speaker 8 (43:31):
They loved him Bill Cosby's. I don't know if it's
just me, but I don't even know how to.

Speaker 11 (43:39):
I don't know how to deal with the emotions of
the fact that there was someone that I looked up
so highly now that I now have so little respect
for when I hear what they've done. I'm still I
guess I'm still trying to.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Know what both things can be true.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
And just because somebody is a great actor doesn't make
them a person of great character. And I think speaking
for myself, growing up, there was so much there was
so much appeal to somebody having fame and fortune. Like
I remember coming to Los Angeles and being WHA, my goodness,
this is where all the magic happens in all the
movie stars. And now to find out that so much

(44:14):
of that was really happening in dark shadows. And you know,
I think politics is the most important thing in the world,
our government. We're in the United States of America, the
greatest country on earth. I was raised, like my father
was buried holding an American flag. We take it serious.
So to now be seeing that the people that we
voted for, and by the way, we it doesn't matter

(44:35):
who you voted for, they may have been aware of
all things happening. Epstein seems like everybody knew about it
and just kind of look the other way. And I
think we could all agree. Nobody likes seeing the Bachelorette.
That's violent. That doesn't work for anybody, right, even if
you love reality TV. We're all like, Eh, that doesn't

(44:55):
feel good. We don't like the pedophilia. We're seeing it everywhere,
and I know we're all getting fatigued. But I do
believe changes in the air, and we're seeing it in
small and big ways. Maybe it'll take fifty three years,
as in the case of Bill Cosby.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
But you know what, justice comes. That justice does come.

Speaker 5 (45:14):
And you know what's weird is we have to get
a madder about it, No we do. It just seems
like the amount of sexual assault cases that even just
we're covering has of course crippled. I feel like that's
all we talk about anymore.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
All of a sudden, too, it just seems as though,
and again I have to say, thank god we have
the ability to talk about it together and anyone listening,
and for those sharing their stories, because now imagine how
many people within the sound of my voice have been
silenced and have been living under this veil of shame
that they've done something wrong.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Now you find out.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Oh wait, no, no, I was the victim and you
were the survivor, and you know, you look back, you
get angry, can't get those.

Speaker 6 (45:55):
Just realized how stupid I am.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
I said that Dolores was a hero for staying silent
to sacrifice for the community, but just I just realized.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
In her mind, yeah, okay, I don't want to make
sure she was that as she was. She sacrificed, but
she shouldn't. Again, nobody do no more Dolores ing. Yeah,
you don't have to take it to the grave. You
can heal from all of it, and you're probably way
more backed up than you think. Honestly, like this uproar

(46:24):
should at least make those who have experienced you know
what I mean, you imagine and again going up against
these big names.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
We're still afraid to do it.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Collectively, we're not doing anything actionable really of the Epstein files,
have you seen any big arrests one an investigation?

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Well, listen, stick around because at the top of the hour,
we're going to be joined by Attorney David Ryan. He's
the former chief of the National Security Division at the
US Attorney's Office.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
We're going to talk about all.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
Sorts of CI issues that we are all facing. Keep
it here, True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and body move in.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
So listen.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
If you've missed any of the first hour of the show,
you do not have to stress at all. You can
just catch us right after as a podcast and reminder,
we have TAHA here, we have Oh.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Sam is in the big seat tonight.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
So he's waiting for your call eight eight eight three
one crime or please you can always leave us a
talk back.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
We love them.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
So we're really excited right now because we have Attorney
David Ryan joining us.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
He's here to discuss all the scary.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Things we've been talking about about, all this online threats
that we've been discussing, some of the groups and things
that we covered in our podcast in Cells, and we
finally have the person here who is going to.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Put us all in line.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
So David, welcome to the show. Thanks for shving me Court,
and you will give a little backstory.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Go ahead, Court.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
Yeah, we're all so happy to have you. David, And
he is an attorney. David is the former chief of
the National Security Division Section at the US Attorney's Office
in Los Angeles. And David Ryan's investigated and prosecuted cases
cases involving domestic and international terrorism efforts, cyber intrusions, cyber hacking,

(48:33):
and cyber stalking.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
So David Ryan is really the guy.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
And he is also currently at the law firm Mongertoles
and Olsen. And we're going to ask you every question.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
He sure is.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
He's a bit of a smarty pan. Yes, and we
had Stephanie mentioned in Cells. We had the pleasure while
Katie Studios was producing the podcast series in Cells of
David really walking us through, for example, the seven six
four network, which we will go into later. But David,

(49:09):
can you just start us off and let everybody know
sort of what is the National Security Division and what
does it do?

Speaker 12 (49:17):
Sure, the Department of Justice has a National Security Division
works with the FBI's national security agents to investigate prevents
and if necessary, prosecute crimes of terrorism, domestic terrorism or
international terrorism and counter intelligence or espionage crimes, which would
include things like foreign government sending agents into the country

(49:40):
to either steal secrets, influence the political system, influence elections,
or in some cases threaten or commit violence against dissidents
from their country or are living in our country.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Oh, that is a hard job, and that sounds a
real serious job. Yes, exactly, Like you're the one keeping
us safe because everything you just described all the stuff
that we're most fearful of, quite frankly, so you know,
thank you for doing that.

Speaker 12 (50:07):
Yeah, it's been an increasingly complex national security threat landscape,
to say the least, over the last ten years.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Oh, I have that.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
I can you tell us a little bit about specifically
the counter intelligence aspect of the National Security Division.

Speaker 12 (50:26):
Yeah, A significant trend over the last decade in national
security has been the rise of the counter intelligence mission.
You know, after nine to eleven, the FBI and Department
of Justice National Security Apparatus was really set up as
a counter terrorism focused apparatus focused on Al Qaeda and

(50:47):
then ISIS, but really starting in earnest with the twenty
sixteen election, the counter intelligence focus increase, in part due
to the Russian influence in that election, as well as
an increased effort by China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia
to engage in other forms of what we would refer

(51:07):
to as malign foreign influence.

Speaker 7 (51:10):
That generally falls into a couple of major buckets.

Speaker 12 (51:13):
One is traditional espionage, attempting to steal secrets, steel military.

Speaker 7 (51:17):
Secrets, flip or bribe, you can co opt.

Speaker 12 (51:22):
US military service members or other government officials who have
access to classified information to use it for their own purposes,
or things like what we call sort of softer espionage,
light or soft power, such as there was a case
that our office, the US Trains Office out here prosecuted
last year of a man who worked on behalf of

(51:43):
the Chinese government as a campaign manager for a local
woman who was running for and was elected to office
in southern California, and he helped get her elected on
behalf of the Chinese government.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
What, oh my goodness, but that makes perfect sense. That
is kind of the perfect plan, right, and again the
big bad web, that is a hard thing to monitor
on its biggest stage, and here we go major wow.

Speaker 5 (52:10):
Courtney literally was like trying to configure out who it was.
Like I could see her thinking, like she was like,
who wasn't.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
No, It's so interesting because I had read you mentioned that,
you know, the China infiltrating Los Angeles, and I had
heard a very similar story that was broken in the
news about in New York and how much the Chinese
government was absolutely.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Ingrained and running New York and saying the long game.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
Interesting, what about in general? It seems there really has
been an increase in online threats in cyberstalking in the
last ten years or so that you've mentioned.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
What what can you tell us about?

Speaker 12 (53:00):
Yeah, so that that would fit into you know, I
referred earlier to domestic terrorism, and increasingly federal law enforcement
is addressed that sort of threat through the domestic terrorism lens,
and that's because there's been an increase in ideologically motivated
online violence. So there's sports, there's certainly a lot of

(53:23):
traditional violent crime that starts online. In terms of threats
in cyberstocking, that comes from personal animates and personal relationships.
What we've seen, though, is the rise of these groups
that are ideologically motivated, and so they would be referred
to truly as domestic terror groups or cells, and the

(53:44):
group in Cells is one of them, and another more
recent iteration is a group or network known as seven
six four. There has been also a rise in online
threats in cyberstocking outside of that sphere in the political context,
so we've seen an explosion again over the last ten

(54:04):
years in online threats related to anti government or anti
authority extremism. Whether those are threats against elected officials, judges, prosecutors,
government officials who are unelected, that has been a serious
problem over the last seven to ten years as well.

Speaker 5 (54:23):
Wow, what's the line between your First Amendment right to
say something and criminal activity?

Speaker 12 (54:32):
It's a great question and it's an important question for
the government, FBI agents and prosecutors to be incredibly well
versed in because that's the line that they're tasked with policing.
You may think about it differently in two different contexts,
in the context of online threats and cyberstocking like you

(54:53):
just asked about.

Speaker 7 (54:55):
You know, it's a federal crime to use the.

Speaker 12 (54:58):
Internet or place phone calls across state lines or send
mail across state lines. All these days, it's mostly the
internet to harass or threaten someone, So that's not First
Amendment protected activity.

Speaker 7 (55:12):
To engage in conduct over the Internet.

Speaker 12 (55:14):
That would cause substantial place of person in fear for
their life or cause them even substantial emotional harm or distress,
that's a crime right there. Where it's maybe trickier is
in the threats context, where it is not a crime
for someone to express a desire in the general in

(55:36):
a general chat forum, let's say, to express a desire
to hurt someone or something or someplace. It's not a
crime for someone in a general chat forum, say to
say that they hope or wish or want or would
love for somebody to commit violence against someone else. So
where that crosses the line is difficult. And then the

(55:58):
most difficult probably is where someone is discussing their desire
to commit a mass casualty attack, whether motivated by foreign
terrorist ideology connected inspired by ISIS, or domestic terror ideology
most commonly motivated by white supremacy extremism, but could be

(56:20):
motivated by any extremist ideology. And where that moves from
stating a desire to planning to committing some sort of
criminal offense is the most I think, the most challenging
thing for national security investigations and prosecutions. The short answer is,
once someone takes a substantial step towards committing the attack,

(56:43):
then they can be charged with attempting it. What does
a substantial step mean? That's the term in the law.
What is a substantial step needs that.

Speaker 6 (56:50):
A home depot run to buy supplies?

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Is that you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Like?

Speaker 6 (56:54):
What I wonder what that is?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
I wonder what that step is? That red flag step?
I guess you could call it, right, That's exactly right.

Speaker 7 (57:03):
So we had a case that we prosecuted where.

Speaker 12 (57:05):
A man was intending to detonate.

Speaker 7 (57:08):
Pipe bombs at a political rally.

Speaker 12 (57:10):
On behalf of are inspired by ISIS, and we charged
him with attempting to commit that attack after he finished
building what he thought was a workable bomb, and he
loaded the bomb into his truck the night before the attack.

Speaker 6 (57:22):
Oh my good.

Speaker 7 (57:23):
He went to trial and a jury found.

Speaker 12 (57:24):
That was enough of a substantial step to be attempting
to commit the attack, even though he hadn't yet shown
up to push the button.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
It's complicated.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
It's such again that fine line of what that line
is between saying I wish or I want to actually
committing a crime. By the way, if you are just
joining us as a true crime tonight, and we're so
thrilled to be joined by Attorney David Ryan. He's the
former chief of the National Security Division at the US

(57:56):
Attorney's Office in Los Angeles, and David is walking us
through espionage and First Amendment protection and counter intelligence things cyber.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Yeah, all things cyber in this instance.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
So David, in your line of work, so there's so
much vitual and aggressive language and threats like this is
similar to a body ask But I don't know any
more information about sort of what how do you find
people before they commit the crimes? And is there any

(58:31):
way for parents to help? I guess first, how do
you guys do it?

Speaker 7 (58:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (58:37):
I think one misconception people have is that the federal
government is out there sitting in chat rooms and trolling
on social media platforms with algorithms or things like that,
or informants to just catch communications.

Speaker 7 (58:52):
In the wind. You know, think about the law of
big numbers.

Speaker 12 (58:55):
There is a lot, There are a lot of people,
There are a lot of social media profiles, and compare
that to the number of FBI agents.

Speaker 7 (59:02):
That's not what's happening.

Speaker 12 (59:04):
It's also not what's happening under our constitutional system and
under the rules and policies.

Speaker 7 (59:08):
Of federal law enforcement.

Speaker 12 (59:11):
So the department and the FBI investigate based on factual
what they would call predication. So they need a basis
to investigate somebody in order to start engaging with them,
looking at their social media posts, tasking an informant or
undercover with communicating with them.

Speaker 7 (59:33):
So where does that.

Speaker 12 (59:34):
Initial factual predication or tip come from?

Speaker 7 (59:38):
Most commonly, it comes from a tip from the community.

Speaker 12 (59:41):
So most commonly somebody in the chat room or in
real life, if the person's talking in real life, hears
or sees something that they think is scary and they
call the FBI, or they call their local police, and
the local police refer the tip to the FBI. And
if there's an there, then the FBI and the Department

(01:00:02):
of Justice National security prosecutors would start digging into it.
There is a lot of vitriol, as you say, out there,
and most of it, the vast majority of it is
not and does not escalate to criminal behavior. So I
think what everybody can and should do is not feel

(01:00:22):
concerned about sharing a tip. If someone sees something or
hears something that they think is scary, they may never
hear about it again, and the FBI or somebody may
take a look at it and it may not cross
that threshold, and that's fine, But that's where the cases
that do cross that threshold, where someone is on that
path towards mobilizing the violence, typically if.

Speaker 7 (01:00:44):
It's able to be stopped. That's the reason.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Wow, I want to talk about going ahead? And you no, no,
you go ahead?

Speaker 5 (01:00:51):
Can we talk about why, like these extremists and whatnot
who carry out mash casualty attacks, why they make manifestos
or the post on social media or then like a
video or share it with friends.

Speaker 6 (01:01:04):
Can we talk about that for a moment.

Speaker 7 (01:01:06):
Yes.

Speaker 12 (01:01:07):
And what's interesting about that is that, like many other
tactics and styles, it's consistent across ideology. So you see
that from attackers motivated by ISIS, see it from white
supremacy extremists, see it from in cells shooters, easy to
appreciate from We had this Palm Springs bombing that we

(01:01:29):
had last year.

Speaker 7 (01:01:30):
That's from a new ideology.

Speaker 12 (01:01:33):
Called anti natalist, basically just anti life in general. Attacked
a fertility clinic based on the view that life is
bad and therefore nobody should be brought into the world.

Speaker 7 (01:01:43):
It doesn't really matter the ideology they follow off in
the same playbook.

Speaker 12 (01:01:47):
And that playbook does often involve manifesto these days, it's
usually a video our website or a live stream. And look,
on the one hand, if someone's trying not to get
caught committing a crime, posting a manifesto, especially one with
your face in it, is not smart.

Speaker 7 (01:02:04):
What does that tell you? Tells you Obviously, not getting
caught is not their priority.

Speaker 12 (01:02:08):
Their priority is getting the message out in order to
get a message out and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Putting their face to that message also, and the only
way to get that message out is to do something
so horrendous it gets a lot of coverage, right, And
that's the main thing.

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):
Right, Then the cycle continues, and then the cycle continues.
Well listen, everybody, keep it here because we are so happy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Attorney David Ryan is going to stick with us.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
He's going to walk us through the seven six four
network and what every parent should know about this online
group that not enough of us do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
It's a group that targets young people. So keep it here.

Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
On True Crime Tonight, we are talking true crime all
the time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Welcome back to your crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lei Decker here
of course with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in, and
we are very very honored to have David Ryan here.
He's an attorney. If you didn't listen to In Cells
the podcast, please do. It's definitely an iHeart podcast. Just
download it on your iHeartRadio app. It's really important stuff,

(01:03:29):
you know. Courtney, Body all worked really hard on it,
and David also really set a stage that none of
us were quite expecting. It was the first time that
really I was aware of seven six' four and we
work in true, crime and even as moms didn't know about.
It SO i can say firsthand already just you sharing
stories has already moved the needle in my, world AND

(01:03:52):
i can speak For courtney on that. Front courtney was
in tears multiple times just talking about seven sixty four
because it just it's so incredibly, scary and it makes
us all feel a little paralyzed with you, know how
to help and how to be productive not just around our,
kids but other kids and you, know, friends et. Cetera
so we're so glad you're here to set us set

(01:04:15):
us up for. Success, yeah, Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
DAVID i was hoping we're going to get into the
details of seven sixty, four As stephanie, mentioned AND i
wanted to just start by a case that you just
drew our attention to that. Hit it was a press
release from about a month. Ago so there's an eighteen
year old man Named Matthew, fisher and the allegation is

(01:04:43):
that he flew From pennsylvania To Los angeles to meet
a girl who had recently turned thirteen years. Old and this,
Guy Matthew, fisher allegedly met her online and groomed her
over the course it seems of a very short. Window
it seems they met In december and this assault happened In.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
February so On.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
February Twentieth fisher flew To Los angeles and he was
found ultimately by THE fbi with this underage victim in
a hotel room where there were, condoms there were bloody,
tissues there were razor, blades and this girl leading up

(01:05:27):
to that had been manipulated by this man to send
videos of herself engaging excess sexually explicit. Acts so this
is a, Case it is a horrible, case and it
is also our way into the seven six four. Network, So,

(01:05:50):
david if you would just start from, scratch there are,
many if not, most people who don't know what the
seven six four network.

Speaker 12 (01:05:57):
Is the seven to Six foard network is a network
of what we call nihilistic violent. Extremists they don't have
an affirmative ideological goal other than to attempt to bring
down or corrupt society and young people in.

Speaker 7 (01:06:21):
Society they attempt to do that by.

Speaker 12 (01:06:28):
Essentially finding children online and sex storting, them meaning induce
them to send sexually explicit videos or photographs to them
over The, internet and then blackmail them with that content
to force them to do increasingly destructive acts of self,

(01:06:49):
harm including sexual acts but also non sexual acts of self.

Speaker 7 (01:06:54):
Harm if they're generally act in.

Speaker 12 (01:06:58):
That way over the, internet carry out from start to
finish their crimes over the, internet but as this case,
illustrates they also in some cases then go in person
to victimize the same. People, further they have also moved
over the last eighteen months into other in real, life

(01:07:20):
physical world, attacks including knife.

Speaker 7 (01:07:22):
Attacks and firearm. Attacks not in The United. States it's
a global network.

Speaker 12 (01:07:30):
And it's, growing and THE fbi has increasingly recognized it
as a domestic terror growing domestic terror, threat and you've
seen a number of arrests over the last, year growing accelerating.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
Number what, please, body we just covered one that wasn't
the little girl or he was hiding in the? Closet right's?
Correct and didn't we just cover, that like?

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Tea, yeah it was another.

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
Case and, Actually, david when you brought this up when
we were speaking, EARLIER i didn't realize there were two
cases so.

Speaker 5 (01:08:06):
Close so, YEAH i speaking more and, more more and,
MORE i feel, yeah that was my point bringing it,
Up LIKE i feel like there's been more and more
coming out about. It and thank god because every TIME
i mentioned the seven to six four Network david on social,
media like people on my comments like, this isn't, Real
like it's so bad people don't even believe it's.

Speaker 12 (01:08:25):
Real the most, tragic among the most tragic things about
it is that they are able to achieve their crimes through.
Secrecy they're able to achieve their crimes by using The
first of, all they target generally kids who are dealing
with mental health. Challenges this, CASE i think was in

(01:08:48):
the charging document that he found his victim in a
chat room or chat group for chat server for kids
who are dealing with depression or anxiety or mental health.
Health that's often who they target because they think they're
a more likely to get those victims to send the
material and then be they're more likely to get those

(01:09:09):
victims not to tell a parent or another adult when
it turns into blackmail because the child is afraid have
anyone they feel they can go talk, to and then
they get taken further and further into that sort of
cycle of. Abuse AND i think, OFTEN i know often

(01:09:31):
because we've, spoke we speak to, them and these victims.

Speaker 7 (01:09:33):
Think that they have no choice and no way.

Speaker 12 (01:09:35):
Out and they think that if they, provide like any blackmail,
plot you, think if you provide one more, time what
the perpetrator asks for they will finally let you, go
and they. Don't they just tighten the grip further and
it happens in complete silence and. Secrecy but it also
can happen really. Quickly as you, said this one went
from first contact to real world sexual assault and nearer

(01:09:58):
murder into much.

Speaker 4 (01:10:00):
Unbelievable unbelievable now it's, staggering and do you know how
how do people even find how do people become a
member or what kind of? People i'm not looking for a,
playbook but it does seem so, shadowy, well so decentralized.

Speaker 7 (01:10:20):
It, yeah we.

Speaker 12 (01:10:21):
Would we refer to it as a network because it's
not an organization that has membership in the way that
some other groups. Do so people that being, said there
Are this operates largely through online chat groups Of discord
has been a popular. One there are others chat groups
where there is, control so you will have an admin

(01:10:42):
or someone who has control over the server who can
let people, in which also then is a status that.

Speaker 7 (01:10:48):
That person or person who run the.

Speaker 12 (01:10:51):
Site have status and can give access to people who share.
Currency the currency is the sexually explicit to the, victims
and so there is a group power dynamic in a
way where you have to be let in and you
have to have some sort of currency to get let,
In but there's not.

Speaker 7 (01:11:10):
Membership it is a.

Speaker 12 (01:11:13):
Network it forms organically online and people are attracted to
it for a number of different. Reasons there's obviously a
sexual component to, it and there's a component of sexual
interest in young children to, it but it's not something
where you see sort of more traditional pedophilia or pedophile,

(01:11:36):
involvement because it is far more focused on the violence
and the blackmail and the induced self harm or. Cutting
the sexual gratification is really you might say it's a,
factor but it's not the main factor that appears.

Speaker 7 (01:11:52):
To be motivating the.

Speaker 5 (01:11:53):
Conduct it's the clout that they carry from discord server
to telegram to discord server to this secret channel in
This WhatsApp, group you, know like it's the cloud they
carry that's, important and that's the currency.

Speaker 11 (01:12:09):
TOO i just had a quick, question because so much
of this happens in private chat rooms or encrypted, platforms
how difficult is it to investigate or prosecute.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
VERY i would imagine it very very.

Speaker 12 (01:12:23):
Difficult, yeah it's like to the POINT i made, EARLIER i,
mean you, know law enforcement doesn't just sit and fish
in chat.

Speaker 7 (01:12:31):
Rooms there has to be.

Speaker 12 (01:12:33):
A reason for AN fbi agent to make contact or
to start looking at someone's profile or. Communication so these,
cases just like the cases we discussed, earlier are often
made because a friend of a, victim a family member
of a victim says, something or one defendant is arrested

(01:12:54):
and we can find the next defendant from the computers
or phone of.

Speaker 7 (01:13:01):
The first defendant because they talked to each.

Speaker 12 (01:13:02):
Other maybe there have been cases where one defendant had
a library victim organized by, name which was a very,
helpful obviously roadmap for law, enforcement but very. Helpful the
key is in this case that where this man was
arrested in the motel and he is the young victim,

(01:13:25):
said you know he was going to have, them ALTHOUGH
i would wager it was going to be her jump
off the roof of the motel at.

Speaker 7 (01:13:31):
The end of the, End oh my, god that her
mother had.

Speaker 12 (01:13:35):
In the nick of, time, frankly heroically done enough digging
to find how enough of what was going on to
call law enforcement and put them onto the trail and
they were able to catch up to, them but not
until some you, know very very tragic crimes had already taken,
place but it could have been.

Speaker 7 (01:13:53):
Worse.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Devastating and are there any like just basic things that you,
know we talk about some of the basics, here but
for anyone, listening it's a lot of dads and moms
and even young people who just want to like better protect.
Themselves AND i don't know THAT i have the answer to,
that other than we do the, obvious you, know make
sure like the parential controls that are, on and of

(01:14:18):
course we should all be doing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
That but let's be.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
Honest you, know we're raising a generation OF covid kids
that are frankly smarter than all of not, You, David
they're not smarter than you or and by the, way
they're not smarter than anybody. Here i'm going to just
make myself the person who's the dummy in the room tech,
wise you, know it's hard to outsmart this. Generation, so you,
know how do we keep them? Safe is there some

(01:14:41):
one basic thing that we should just always?

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
DO i wish it was that, simple, RIGHT i.

Speaker 7 (01:14:45):
Know let me say a couple of things about. That
number one is.

Speaker 12 (01:14:54):
One of the ways that these perpetrators are able to
find victims is the victims start out a little, bit
they get. Fooled they get fooled into thinking that the
perpetrator actually cares about, them or is seducing, them or
is even in a relationship with.

Speaker 7 (01:15:15):
Them or is in a community with.

Speaker 12 (01:15:16):
Them maybe they're going to mutually share sexually explicit photos or.

Speaker 7 (01:15:21):
Videos they're just afraid love.

Speaker 12 (01:15:24):
Bombing it doesn't start, violent it doesn't start explicitly. Coeresive
SO i do think it's appropriate for parents when talking
to their kids who are going to be. ONLINE i,
mean obviously monitoring online behaviors is smart but, difficult but

(01:15:44):
if your kid is you, know when your kids becoming
a teenager and maybe going to be, online.

Speaker 7 (01:15:50):
And it's difficult to. Police to just have the understanding.

Speaker 12 (01:15:52):
That when you're communicating with someone who is, anonymous you
do not know the intent men that that person has for.
You and it's sad to, say but you have to
remain skeptical and you aware that people out there may
not have the best intention before you take that leap

(01:16:12):
to be intimate and to reveal something intimate about, yourself
to really know that you have someone on the other
side that you can trust and that has your best
interests in.

Speaker 7 (01:16:24):
Mind the second THING i want to say about.

Speaker 12 (01:16:25):
That, is so that's that's what gets them into that's
what gets the perpetrator. In but then what allows them
to really twist the knife literally is the kids feel
like it's worse to tell their parents than it is
to commit the access self, Farmer it's worse to their
parents than it is to let the guy.

Speaker 7 (01:16:45):
Let the person fly all the way out across the.

Speaker 12 (01:16:47):
Country and why they feel that way when you're twelve
and thirteen the level of fear at speaking to adults
or an older. Siblings SO i think the other THING
i would say is to make sure that your kids
or younger siblings know that there is talking to you
is never going to be worse and letting something like that.

(01:17:08):
Happen the consequences of telling you that they made a,
mistake that they sent a video or photo that they
shouldn't have. Sent the consequences of telling you that can't
be worse than the consequences of not telling.

Speaker 7 (01:17:18):
YOU i think parents have to make sure their kids
understand that really.

Speaker 6 (01:17:22):
Quick we only have a few minutes.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
Left but how prevalent is the, network how prevalent is
the seven to six for a network in The United.

Speaker 7 (01:17:29):
States that's a difficult question to. Answer the.

Speaker 12 (01:17:38):
Challenge with these groups is that a lot of people
who are getting into them lurk and live in the
shadows until they are till they are more. Explicit so
the number of, cases right is going to be a
small percentage of the number.

Speaker 7 (01:17:57):
Of people in the.

Speaker 12 (01:17:58):
Network that being, said this is, not you, know an
exploding number of tens of thousands of. INDIVIDUALS i don't
think there's any evidence of. THAT i think the challenge
is that one perpetrator can have a large number of,

(01:18:18):
victims and we've seen. That we've seen one defendant with
more than twenty, victims so you, know each individual can
have an outsize. Effect and the other THING i would
say is similar things happen outside of the seven to
six four. Network, right we see the problem of sex,
stortion so this is a problem outside of that network as. Well.

Speaker 5 (01:18:42):
Well, david thank you so much for joining. Us it's
been incredibly, helpful really eye. Opening we would love to
have you back anytime. Again thank, You. David, ryan you're
listening To True Crime tonight stick.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Around welcome back To True Crime tonight An. iHeartRadio we've
been talking true crime all the time for.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
Starters how great Is Attorney David.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Ryan, yeah he's coming in here and explaining to us
about seven six. Four and also like with basic clean,
advice which, is you, know we can't always control everything
our kids are seeing or our loved ones, are you,
know finding.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
Online it's really kind of impossible to.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
Navigate but just making sure the pregame is to make
sure that your kid knows that you know you're safe
and that no matter what the mistake, is that there
is a safe. Landing and it was so perfectly, stated you,
know telling your appearance is it should be easier than
falling for this terrible decision or you're feeling roped in

(01:19:50):
by some. PREDATOR i can only imagine being, twelve thirteen years, old,
heck being twenty two years old for a mistake and
feeling like somebody's going to release something on the.

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
Internet even if.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
Devastated you, know it's enough to to all the Things
i'm saying the, obvious but you, know, body just one
last thing actually funny.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
ENOUGH i was in a very a very.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Big conversation today about, safety AND i was talking about
the show and how we're always looking for tips AND
i repeated, yours AND i was, like you, know the
number one thing that body said she would do if
she was abducted and thrown in the back of a,
Car and they, SAID i, listened and she said she
would lick the window because that would leave BEHIND. Dna
and by the, way it's really good. Advice so you,

(01:20:38):
know a couple of those. Things AND i had a
few more to add to, that SO i would to
be called the window looker from now on. Exactly i'm,
like WHEN i see somebody licking a, Window i'm going
to know that they're in.

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
Trouble that is a.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Sign but also you, know and, again if you ever
find yourself in a situation where you want to call,
authorities for, EXAMPLE i thought this was a good. Tip
and you can't really speak on the phone because you're
maybe with somebody that is.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
The problem and you can't share. Anything you dial five to.
Five did you know? THAT i didn't know. This it's,
like it's, Okay so they say dial Like i'm too
afraid to.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Check i'm too afraid to check BECAUSE i don't want
to bother the police and have them show up at
the door. Here but it sounds, like, yeah if you
dial five, five then authorities would know that you can't
speak and to. Come or even if you call nine
one one and you pretend that you're ordering a pizza
and i'd word pizza gets a lot of chatter these.

(01:21:37):
Days but according to this list that was generated to
me that if, you you, know say to the, Police,
Hi i'm calling from this address and i'd like to
order a pizza or do you guys, deliver they'll get
the cue that there's troubled waters.

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
There so that's.

Speaker 6 (01:21:53):
THAT a long time, AGO i didn't realize that was actually.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
True, yeah good one, Right and If god forbid you
ever find yourself in the back of a, trunk if
you're being like trapped in a, trunk kick out the tail.
Light you can kick it out from the interior of
your truck of the trunk and then stick your hand
or your foot out and hopefully the person behind you
sees a, limb you, know shaking outside of the tail,

(01:22:17):
light and hopefully they'll call.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
Authorities kind of you.

Speaker 5 (01:22:20):
Something If i'm driving down the street AND i see
somebody's hand on a, leg, hang, Yeah i'm going to
Be i'm gonna be like the detective body.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Is on, it and you're going to follow them. Back
i'll call nine one. ONE i am a, girl. GIRL
i got your.

Speaker 5 (01:22:37):
Back, ladies IF i, HANGING i promise You i'm going
to be.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Following and also just spit. Everywhere and that's another thing
we had. MENTIONED i don't know WHY i want this.
KICK i feel Like David ryan covered so much. Already
but vomiting also there's like A dna probably to be
found in, that and, frankly nobody wants to abduct the vomiting.
Person probably same for urinating your pants, exactly not so.

(01:23:06):
Fun also there's probably SOME dna attached to.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
That i've had a couple of cocktails.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
Exactly whatever, works is, right and then scratch and kick like,
hell because REMEMBER dna under the fingertips.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
Scratches nobody wants to have.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
Those how many how many cases have we covered where
you know the final nail in the coffin was the
person actually had scratch, marks right, yeah so you, know
very very by the, way where even saw that with The,
bachelorette right like that was one of the defining things
was there were scratches. Involved so, anyway just like small
things to either share with your loved, ones or your

(01:23:42):
daughters or your nieces or yourselves and your sisters and,
brothers and you, know just in case you find yourself
in a funky, situation and just to, reiterate try not
to get in the car even if somebody is again
this is it sounds like a crazy thing BECAUSE i
would be so obedient until.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
Now karate chop.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Them but in, theory even if somebody comes up behind
you with, like first of, all give them, anything don't
ever fight over your, wallet, right like come on the,
Headphones like just hand it over and get on with the.
Show but if, there if you're really getting into a,
vehicle your chance of survival goes down fifty.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Percent that's what it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
Said so you just want to scream and be super
annoying and scratch and apparently saliva everywhere is a great
way to be.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
Found.

Speaker 5 (01:24:32):
Goods pulling my hairs, out pulling your hairs, out that's,
right licking the.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
WINDOW i, MEAN i would be LIKE i would, be don't.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
TRY i couldn't remember in the, MOMENT i couldn't remember
your other, tip and it WAS i thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
About does that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
Time from that's WHAT i couldn't remember, it SO'S.

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
I would be IF i did, THAT i do so,
anyway those are some.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Tips if anybody has, more you, know please keep them,
coming because again we're, like we got to keep each other,
safe especially during these wonky, times especially as all these
meteors are falling out of the.

Speaker 3 (01:25:15):
Sky we didn't even talk about.

Speaker 7 (01:25:18):
That the.

Speaker 6 (01:25:21):
General is missing What Elon musk is somehow.

Speaker 3 (01:25:25):
INVOLVED i just know his, brother his.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
Brother like the big drone guy allegedly allegedly, ALLEGEDLY i don't.
Know there's a couple of things THAT i keep seeing popping,
up WHICH i know is my. Algorithm so this is
we're now gonna lead in fact as the algorithm needs
to be. Crazy it's either like dogs because you, Know
i'm desperate for a. Puppy ALL i do is like
watch cute dog talk videos and get choked. Up or

(01:25:50):
it's pure murder and how to stay. Alive SO i
in this, CASE i lost my. THOUGHT i just started
thinking about cute. Dogs so the, meteorites the METEOR i,
mean the meters are a real.

Speaker 3 (01:26:05):
THING i mean these are there are a. Ton Didn't, California.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Ye multiple just in Northern. California they did In, Ohio,
texas you, know and they also allegedly have like kind
of a green, tail which is apparently a little unusual
for metea or. Meteors happened that that's, LIKE i don't know,
common but it seems like they're falling out of.

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
The sky a lot these.

Speaker 4 (01:26:26):
Days SO i went earlier Because stephanie had sent she did, Something, well.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
A very big. Rock have you found that in your?
Backyard do you think you wouldn't be? Floored?

Speaker 4 (01:26:38):
Absolutely no meteor that fell In. Coachella and SO i
went TO i forget it. Was it was a meteor
metiological institute or.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
Something that's WHAT i went.

Speaker 4 (01:26:49):
To and it seems it doesn't seem like there is
a gross uptick in being able to know that they're
here because there are so many cameras, everywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
And that it's that and it you, know, ZELONS i
don't know They.

Speaker 8 (01:27:08):
So it's it's.

Speaker 11 (01:27:09):
This this has always been, happening but we're just seeing it
more because everyone has a phone that can record. It
is what it sounds, like you're, saying a.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
PHONE i don't buy.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
IT i think you, guys we're going to have to
Have sam is nodding his. HEAD i know he's agreeing
with but it's probably be. Me it's a mix Of,
okay he's just agreed with every single one of. Us
BUT i, mean these meteors are falling out of the.
Sky SO i keep hearing chatter about this in That,

(01:27:39):
really when there's going to be, disclosure which by the,
way there already has. BEEN i, mean The pentagon has
acknowledged that there have been these unidentified, objects if you.
Will but we don't know the source of. That we
don't know if it's you, know it could be a foreign,
government it could be a. Drone you, know it could
be all kinds of. Things it doesn't mean there's an alien.
Invasion and by the, way aliens don't necessarily have to

(01:28:00):
be a bad. Thing maybe they'll bring some love upon.
US i think that's not a bad thing. Either allegedly
they're under the, water that's the big that's the. Gossip
so it's based on, nothing by the, way this is
based on algorithm, chatter but that we know. Less we
know more about space than we do about the ocean.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
And the, underwater and that these orbs.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
And things, allegedly allegedly allegedly are coming from beneath, us
not above.

Speaker 8 (01:28:29):
Who i'm picturing all these fish.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
PEOPLE i don't love all that underwater. Stuff i'm a little.
Afraid i'm a decent, swimmer but not a great. One
i'm the first to die in this.

Speaker 5 (01:28:38):
Movie you guys want to do some talk, box that's,
good that's.

Speaker 9 (01:28:45):
TRUE i just want to talk About Taylor Frankie paul's
because the thing That i'm not quite sure about is
like she got let go because of her instant from
twenty to twenty, three which was discussed heavily and thoroughly
On Secret lives And Mormon, wise which is exactly so
under The disney reality show. Umbrella so it's just it's

(01:29:07):
wild to me that they didn't seem to know much
about that when they cast her On The. Bachelor when
you Watch Mormon, wives the whole season that just came
out was all about How taylor's going to mess it
all up because she's a, mess and that's what. Happens
it's wild that the people above the cast didn't seem
to watch the, show didn't seem to know anything about

(01:29:28):
it before they cast her. On there love, you, guys
thank you for Your.

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
We love you such we were saying these.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
In the break give me those people didn't. Know go,
Ahead court sing it for.

Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
Us, no JUST i couldn't agree with. You more like
the question of oh did they? Know how didn't they uncover?

Speaker 3 (01:29:49):
It they?

Speaker 4 (01:29:50):
Did of.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
Course flip YOUR tv. On you can know it. All
you aired it all, like, right it's, yeah it's. Crazy
it's a little funny thing. Though so you, look, listen
love makes people crazy to some.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
Degree, Right so if you go on The, bachelor even
in the best, circumstances, right it makes you a little
passionate and, listen it can put you a little off
your rocker or raise your hand if you've ever been
on your rocker or off of it because of love
at some point in your. Life, Right so that's a
universal truth to some. Degree so you take thirty or
twenty two saying healthy humans and put them in a

(01:30:26):
house for thirty days to find. Love even with the
perfect humans that have been everything, tested all, things.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
You, know people go a little. Crazy, okay that's what
probably the basis of a show.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Is you don't go casting the. Crazy you, know you
don't put somebody that is air. Quotes it's like so
low rent in a, way like you're just really casting
because we just you just assume that we're just all
like that are just eat it up because it's just
because they.

Speaker 11 (01:30:55):
Know because but people will like if you know that
you've got someone that is going to flip a table
or like get really overly.

Speaker 8 (01:31:02):
Emotional if one of the, GUYS i don't.

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
Know it's like so, Old LIKE i feel like we're
kind OF i feel LIKE i feel like we're over.
YET i mean, listen AND i worked on all of, them.

Speaker 5 (01:31:12):
Like we can count on C span and see that In, congress,
right literally too.

Speaker 3 (01:31:16):
Much let's get some better our reality.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
Exactly just go to one of the, appointed the New ice.
Guy they're literally, like learn take you want to get
in a. Fight so, YEAH i think that maybe the
world's gotten so crazy and heated that maybe this show
is being also so.

Speaker 11 (01:31:32):
CRAZY i think we're evolving's just trying to find people
like get more eyes on the. Show like everyone has
shifted away from you, know Watching like.

Speaker 5 (01:31:40):
Listen people at the water, cooler they're not, like oh
did you see that sweet girl in The?

Speaker 8 (01:31:45):
Bachelorette they did you see?

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
Her go crazy like?

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
That it's when the sweet girl, is you, know heartbroken over,
love you feel it a lot. More it's not your doing,
television you, Know so that's like real emoent is WHAT
i think the spirit of it was supposed to, be
and now it just feels like, it's, oh let's just get.

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
Crazy emotion at all.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Costs AND i just think as, audiences we've by the,
way this is like Not i'm not on a. Soapbox
i've loved all these shows and that you, Know i've
worked on so many in the early, days AND i
just think we're all kind of evolving a little.

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
BIT i would.

Speaker 6 (01:32:20):
AGREE i don't think we're there, yet BUT i.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Know we don't have to bail love that. It, yeah
but WHAT i really want to marry.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
One but like that is just because you, KNOW i
take that, Back. Luanne you know, Whatever let's do.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
Another talk back.

Speaker 13 (01:32:36):
Guys jordan From arizona And i'm listening to your episode
about The afroman civil trials AND i hear you that
saying that After, cooley who has been in this video
is now looking over his shoulder like he's afraid of
the pound, cake which just, ridiculous and what a waste of,
money this whole. Lot it just sounds, Crazy and to be,

(01:33:00):
HONEST i would be grateful for all of the.

Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
Give me some. Strawberries i'm good to wait to look
a gift cake in the. Mouth, yes.

Speaker 8 (01:33:20):
Everyone in on that case in case people had missed what.

Speaker 5 (01:33:22):
WE i, mean listen these you have sixty, seconds, babe
it's too. Long But afroman won his. Lawsuit he was
being sued for defamation by The sheriff's. Department they raided
his home with a warrant and they tore it. Up
but you, know there was some pound cake on the
counter and the, officer you, know the portly, officer kind

(01:33:43):
of was looking at it a little. Bit So afroman
wrote a. Song they sued him for. Defamation anyone is?
That AND i agree with. You they should have what
a waste Of, yeah what a waste of.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
Money and they should have gone and cried in a
corner and been embarrassed by themselves and so up bringing
this ridiculous.

Speaker 8 (01:34:01):
Litigation because everyone now went to watch the. Video if
you hadn't heard about, it this, case.

Speaker 5 (01:34:07):
Now everybody's going To afroman's YouTube. Channel by the, way
he's got over a million subscribers at this.

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):
POINT i love. It i'm already.

Speaker 5 (01:34:15):
And you know it's literally the stry sand. Effect and
if you don't know what that. Is you, know just google,
it but. Listen if you don't want somebody to know about, something.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
Don't bring attention to.

Speaker 9 (01:34:24):
It keep.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
Quiet, oh by the, way, tomorrow don't.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
Forget we Have Joseph Scott morgan with us tomorrow and
finally the autopsy report of the Hideous ohio. Murderers remember
the double homicide with The tepee, Family So Joseph Scott morgan.

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
Is going to break down the.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Forensics they are far scarier than we even. Thought so
all that and, more thanks for joining us.

Speaker 3 (01:34:47):
Tonight we will be back. Tomorrow stacy