Cruise Ship Murder, The Crash Backlash, & Epstein Questions

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, May twenty seventh, and
guess what. We have a stacked knight of headlines. Big
developments in the Anna Kepner murder trial.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Her stepbrother, He's been to court.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Will he be allowed to be free while awaiting his
upcoming murder trial? Plus Matthew Perry, we remember he overdosed
of ketamine and that ketamine ring has really been under fire.
Now there's been the final judgment, his assistant has been sentenced.
And also Pam Bondi, former Attorney General, is set to

(00:56):
appear before the DOJ in the House Oversight Committee to
discuss anything and everything she knew in the Epstein case
and anything we need to know about the files amid
really recently finding out that she's been diagnosed with cancer,
which is horrible. And listen the legal stuff that we're
going to get to. We have some questions that have
been backing up and some talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
From you guys. If you want to join us live.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
We would love to have you eight eight eight to
three to one Crime, because tonight is the night you'll
want to do it. Jarrett Ferretino is joining us, our
very favorite prosecutor. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong
and Body Moven. We have producer hat Tah and Sam
and Adam also standing by the phone.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Happy Wednesday. Everybody, so much to get to.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I almost feel like we have to speed talk because
Matthew Perry, this is a big one. We've all been
following this very closely, our beloved actor from friends. His
death was so so tragic and really this is a
case one of a kind, really the first of all
firsts Maddy, what.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Do you think?

Speaker 4 (02:01):
I think this is like the closing chapter in this case. Right,
hopefully his family can move not move on, but move forward,
you know, through life now that this is the final
chapter and you know, start their healing, right.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Because this is kind of justice now, right.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
So today actor Matthew Perry's personal assistant is former personal
assistant Kenneth E.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Wamasa.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
I hope I'm saying that right was sentenced to forty
one months in prison for repeatedly injecting the Friends star
with the fatal doses of ketamine. Kenneth sentencing marks the
final chapter in this multi year it's been this has
been going on for a while.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
This has been a.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Federal case that saw all five defendants plead guilty for
exploiting the actor's addiction they were exploiting him. The judge
in the case handed down the sentencing after citing Kenneth's
reckless conduct on the day Matthew Perry died, as well
as his subsequent attempts.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
To destroy evidence and misleading.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
And I think that the last part, you know, destroying
evidence and misleading police, I think that's what really kind
of did it in, you know.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
As it should as it should?

Speaker 4 (03:15):
Would that be like a correct assumption, Jared, that destroying
evidence and misleading police and whatnot is ultimately the bigger Well,
I mean, it's all a big crime, but had he
worked with the police and been more forthcoming, he might
not have been convicted.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Is that to me?

Speaker 5 (03:33):
I think it was a huge part of the case.

Speaker 6 (03:36):
I also think, though there's been a great focus on
his failures to act and the things he failed to do,
he affirmatively injected Matthew Perry with poison multiple time, so
essentially that was and then covered it up and then
lied about it and spoke at the funeral like so

(03:56):
all of those things were just It was one act
after another affirmative act. And the most telling thing, and
I think the I would continue to pound home here
was he was Matthew's companion to prevent him from using,
to prevent him from falling back into addiction, and not

(04:19):
only did he fail to prevent it, he encouraged administer
the fatal dose.

Speaker 5 (04:23):
So it is ultimately ironic.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Here and agree to that.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
And by the way, though I was sorry, Core, but
just like if you're a celebrity and you're a celebrity assistant,
you can also imagine we've seen this in the Didty
case as well. You're in this orbit the celebrity who
is ultimately employing you.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Even if the job is supposed to be to keep
you clean.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Maybe you get in this orbit and you get kind
of hypnotized by it.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
All.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
That would be on the kind side, But in reality,
this guy totally knew what he was doing, shooting him
up and going to the funeral.

Speaker 7 (04:56):
It's egregious as a sober companion, and does that raise
the onus of anything legally?

Speaker 5 (05:04):
Here's why it does.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
It doesn't necessarily give him any advanced medical trends.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
It tells, it suggests, and basically proves that.

Speaker 6 (05:13):
Matthew Perry was vulnerable and had a condition that made
him susceptible to narcotics, an addiction, and to overdose. So
when you're a case like this, you look at the
foreseeability of the harm and you would say, how foreseeable
was it that Matthew Perry would be repeatedly injected and

(05:35):
likely overdose for a sober companion? It is extremely foreseeable.
So you finally use that knowledge to aid your prosecution.
So in this case, yes, it is part of the analysis.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
While the judge cited three main factors to justify this
forty one month sentence, right, I mean, this is no
sentence to shake a stick out. This assistant is going
to be in federal prison for three and a half years,
and I mean I certainly that would terrify me. So
this is nothing to shake a stick at. The judge
said that the assistant was fully aware of Matthew Perry's

(06:15):
severe addiction and that Kenneth wilfully chose to procure and
inject dangerous quantities of this ketamine. He said that Kenneth
left Matthew Perry unsupervised in a hot tub immediately after
administering this massive, final lethal dose. And Thirdly, following the

(06:36):
fatal overdose, Kenneth actively destroyed evidence and repeatedly lied to
police about his involvement. So those were the three things
against the defendant here that really kind of, you know,
sealed his fate. So I think all the things that
you mentioned were pretty good.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Steph, Like, I feel like you're probably so mad, like
the mom. You listen to Matthew Perry's mother now again,
Matthew Perry was struggling with addiction. But you hear his
mom basically saying to anybody who was around Matthew during
these times, who it's egregious. I mean, everything you guys
just said is so on the nose. You just have
to be so careful of who you surround yourself with,

(07:14):
especially when these people are on payroll to keep you safe.
They left him in a hot tub. We're talking about
Matthew Perry because he's one of the friends and we
all loved him. And you know he's iconic, but think
about the everyday person that this could happen to. You
know that you're getting taken advantage of when you know
full well that you're in a moment of struggle, and.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
It's pretty sickening.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I think forty one months is actually too little time
behind mars in a federal prison.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
No, it's my point.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
You know you mentioned his mother, his mother, Suzanne, and
she you know, they were able to give victim impact statements,
and I really think it's important to relay what the
victims are saying, right, And his mother wrote that tennis
most important job was to be her son's companion and
guardian in his fight for sobriety, just like you said, Jarrett, this.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Was his number one job.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
And she further noted that Kenneth knew that he had
a safety net of people to call if he felt pressured.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Right.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
We talk about the celebrity culture, and you know, people
need people around them to say no instead of the disassmen. Right,
And that's like the downfall of a lot of celebrities
because I think people are afraid to say no. And
Matthew Perry's mother, Suzanne is like, listen, you had all
these people around that would have said no had you
felt pressured, but instead, and I'm going to use quotes here,

(08:40):
we trusted a man without a conscience, and my son
paid the price because he couldn't say no to him. Oh,
so sad. It's so sad.

Speaker 7 (08:49):
His book, which I remember, I got it for Christmas
and it was done before New Year's Like I just
I loved it, and it was so in his voice,
but in it when he really laid bare the extent
of his addiction and Holy mackerel. But what he spoke
about so much were over the course of years, how

(09:11):
much he did lean on his sober companions, how much
he did he's like the and they saved my life
and they brought me through this.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yes, and that's what that job is supposed to do.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
And maybe it's not a nurse like a medical nurse,
per se, I do get the distinction. But if Matthew
Perry is struggling with addiction, and if addiction is a disease,
that is frankly out of his hands. But he has
deep pockets and great connections, and it is a celebrity.
And you have this air quotes. Nurse basically injecting you
with medicine that's going to make your disease worse, Like,

(09:43):
what the heck is this about?

Speaker 3 (09:45):
And that is something that I do think.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
I'm glad we're talking about it because it is so
sickening and maddening to me, and it is I'm glad
that it's getting some attention. Leaves him in a hot
tub exactly.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
So the friends like that, you know, who needs friends
like that?

Speaker 2 (10:00):
And the shame that comes with addiction for those that
are really in recovery.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
I mean, the guy was kicking it.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
And the ketamine thing is extra Hollywood because it's being
used in many cases apparently very successfully therapeutic as a
medication for medical use for PTSD and sometimes for soldiers
returning from warfare.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
It's apparently very productive.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
So again you could see if you're somebody struggling and
that seems like a light at the shining end of
the tunnel, and then you have this clown who's completely
taking advantage of that. Anyway, don't get me started.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
Matthew Perry's sister echoes your sentiments, Stephanie. His sister Madeleine
noted that she felt that the assistance was more culpable
than the actual drug dealer. I agree, because he was
supposed to be the safety net and he knew that
he had people in his orbit that he could have
called had he felt this pressure. But it kind of

(10:57):
feels in reading the victim impact statements and whatnot, kind
of feels like Kenneth the assistant was kind of in
on it, like he, you know, was okay and had
no remorse at all in doing this. And Matthew Perry's sister, Caitlyn,
because he has another sister, Caitlyn, she wrote that she
has no sympathy for him, no sympathy at all for

(11:19):
the assistant.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Kenneth.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Matthew Perry's sister continued, and she stated that when Kenneth
left the house that night after giving him that fatal
dose and leaving him in the hot tub, she said
he was either escaping from something he knew he had done,
or he was wilfully abandoning a vulnerable person in a
dangerous situation.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
And she nailed it, She nailed it in my eyes.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Like he left that house with the knowledge that Matthew Perry,
he'd just given this massive dose to Matthew Perry, our
beloved Chandler right, left him to drown in that hot tub, right,
and he.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Was like sending out the bad signal. I mean it was,
this is somebody who is struggling with addiction. And again,
if anyone listening has a loved one or is themselves
struggling with addiction, you know, keep the fight up, like
you can push through it, but your site, you know,
your circle counts, and your circle counts. And this is
somebody who really took advantage of that.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah, really really really badly.

Speaker 7 (12:18):
Actually, how is this not a case of manslaughter or
whatever might be just below? Because if you have knowledge
that you yourself are pushing something into someone's system, you
have drug expertise of some sort, and then you leave
them in a hatab Like, how isn't that manslaughter?

Speaker 6 (12:37):
So it is, it's just more akin to that drug
district death. But it is essentially manslaughter. You have knowledge,
you commit an unlawful act, it's reckless and likely to
lead to someone's death. That's manslaughter any day. So that
it is essentially a manslaughter charge, and the sentence is

(12:58):
consistent with manslaughter. So but it always goes back to
was it foreseeable? What did the defendant know and in
this case, like we said, he knew how bdily Matthew
Perry was in the throes of addiction, in battling this
for years and years and years. And I think his
family's reaction too, like they leaned on him that there's

(13:21):
always guilt in a family when you're fighting addiction on
behalf of a loved one. Drug dealers are going to
deal and they're going to answer for those crimes. But
the person you put there to help you and to
look out for your loved one breaks the faith and
trust you put in them. That shatters your faith in
the system. It shatters your faith in that person. And

(13:42):
that's why he's the fifth and defendant to go down here,
and that's why the family feels so strongly, and.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
That other defendants, the Ketamine Queen for example, who's also
looking at a lot of time. If you look at
the text messages between this ring, it is so hideous.
They are pushing for dollars. They know they have someone
on the hook that's desperate. That's a bottomless pit financially speaking,
and that too just sort of shows they all were

(14:10):
so in on it, and I hope they pay the price.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Well, you mentioned the Kenemine queen. She got fifteen years
jazz fine sanga right, she was the Kennemine queen that
ran this drug ring of lethal ketamine and supplied it
to the ring to distribute to Matthew Perry.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
I should add really quick. After a tearful.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Sentencing, the defendant, Kennis said, I'm so sorry to all
of you. You know how much Matthew loved you. I'm
so sorry to have done illegal acts. I will forever
regret it, and I will take it to my grave
and it will be a cautionary tale. I'm horribly sorry,
and I offer my condolences to you.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
That's what he said.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
Stick around. We have a lot coming up. A federal
judge reveals graphic new details in Anna Kepner's creefship murder death.
Keep it ring your True Crime to night.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and Body move in, and we have Jarrett Farantino,
our very favorite prosecutor, with us this evening to answer
any and all of your legal questions. If you have
any and want to join US Live eight eight eight
three one crime or talkbacks, keep those coming as well.

(15:31):
Also just a quick programming note. It is almost summer break.
I think we all were living in March still. This
will be our last week of live shows while we're
on hiatus, but.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
We're gearing ups for some very exciting stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
We'll give you some instruction, but the biggest point is
we want those talkbacks to keep coming. So on our
KT Studios website, there is a feature where you can
just push a button and we want to hear about
all of your summer plans, maybe some of your tips
and tricks to how to survive all the greatness, maybe
some cooking tips, let's go summer's skincare.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
We want to hear all about it.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
So throughout these coming weeks, you could always just leave
a message and weigh in on any of the cases.
Because it's just occurring to all of us. Things are
going to be happening in the Epstein trial. We're going
to have potential alien invasions in the coming weeks coming
come on, There's a lot going on, so we want
to make sure we're keeping our pulse with all of you,

(16:28):
and we're excited for more of it, So that's that. Also,
our podcast on iHeartRadio, which Jarrett is featured in as well,
Who's Tremendous in It Ai Made Me Die, We'll be
premiering on June tenth, and our documentary Murder one oh
one we'll be premiering on Prime Video on July sixth.

(16:50):
So lots going on, lots happening behind the scenes, and
big shout out to all things iHeart.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
The greatest partners, and I will just.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Say and I promise to stop talking because we have
to move on to darker things. But as this season
comes to a close, which is shocking, how has this
season already happened? And I'm like crazy that we're not
going to actually have each other on a daily for
this little short moment, having this community. We have the coolest,
greatest audience in the land that are so smart and

(17:20):
so interactive, so out of site, not out of mind,
and we'll have that talkback feature running so we're always
instilled in contact. Anyway, Moving gears to Anna Kepner, this
case is a brutal one, but there's some really important
updates in a discussion to be had, so body take
it away.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Alas it to Courtney.

Speaker 7 (17:41):
Yes, I have been following this one. It's been keeping
all of us awake. I would also like to give
everyone a trigger warning. We are going to be discussing
some specifics of sexual abuse allegations involving miners. So this
all relates to case we've been following for months. Back
in November of last year, eighteen year old Florida High

(18:02):
School senior Anna Kaepner. She was found dead and when
she was found by someone who was a cleaning woman
on the Carnival Horizon cruise ship, she was under a
bed and hidden under life jackets. So a federal grand
jury has now indicted Anna Koepner's sixteen year old step brother,

(18:22):
Timothy Hudson, and these are on adult charges of first
degree murder and aggravated sexual abuse.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
He has pleaded not guilty.

Speaker 7 (18:31):
Because this crime occurred in international waters, the case falls
under federal jurisdiction, and today the judge made a ruling
on whether this defendant, Timothy Hudson, should remain free or
be detained while awaiting trial. And boy, oh boy, Jarrett,
when you are prosecuting cases and people are charged with

(18:53):
first degree murder and aggravated sexual abuse, do they usually
get to hang out outside of an institution or.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
No, they do not. They remain where they belong, which
is incarcerated, including individuals that were under the age of eighteen.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I am shocked by this, Jared. You know, I was
a slow burn on this case. I really held a
lot of hope that the stepbrother was just in a
funky situation, right, maybe he there he was rough housing
with his stepsister on a cruise and something tragic happened,
and you know, she hit her head on the and
he panicked. And as the details emerge, that's feeling less

(19:32):
and less the case, meaning those are the accusations or
are not lining up with accident per se, and that
there may have been some other instances of that which
we've spoken about here on the show. And it's crazy
making that this young man is allowed to be out
in society if in fact he may be a danger
to somebody else or himself.

Speaker 6 (19:53):
He's absolutely a danger. This was a crime of predation.
It was not an accident. He's shown no remor These
are the things that a judge consider when assessing whether
or not someone should remain out on bail while the
charges are pending and the trial is coming. Number one
the likelihood that they are a threat to others. Okay,

(20:15):
this was a crime when he had a very small
window to his crime he did. He acted out on
Anna and he killed her. The second thing is are
there any guarantees that they can keep others safe?

Speaker 5 (20:29):
There are no guarantees.

Speaker 6 (20:31):
His family, his uncle is watching him, and he's being
mon by GPS. GPS could have been worn on his
ankles when this crime was committed and it would not
have saved Anna's life. He was being monitored by his
family on a cruise ship when this crime happened. I
would argue with the judge, the table that you're setting

(20:53):
while he's out on bail is the crime scene.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
In this case.

Speaker 6 (20:57):
He was around his family and he was being my
he still managed to kill her.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
Such a good point, Jared. I have a question that
I was thinking about earlier.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Today.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
We're going to get into some of the details of
this unsealed document that we got today that has a
lot of the details that happened that night, but it
was unsealed today. Do you think is there any world
in which we live in that this was unsealed so
the public could know what a danger this kid.

Speaker 5 (21:27):
Is there's a chance.

Speaker 6 (21:28):
I mean, I wouldn't speak for all prosecutors when I
say we don't play to the public.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
On occasions it has.

Speaker 6 (21:35):
But the most important person that needs to understand what's
in that document is the judge.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
And it doesn't appear to me he's getting the message.
This young man has shown no remorse either, which also
says he's likely to act out again. So these are
all things that and so there's two things. A judge
has asked though. He wants to know if there is
a juvenile facility willing to accept this young man. Okay,

(22:04):
that's an important consideration. Often there are not acceptable juvenile facilities.
The answer isn't early you remain free.

Speaker 6 (22:12):
Then it's put him in an adult facility away from
adult in protected.

Speaker 5 (22:17):
That right be done absolutely, and I've done it.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I mean yeah, I mean and where is where are
his parents? Like at this point, I feel like they're
not even going to court with him and body, I
know we'll get through this exact timeline, but from an
optics perspective, it doesn't really appear that this boy has
anybody but his uncle.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
In his corner.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Certainly his blended family has stepped away, but I'm surprised
his mom isn't going to court with him. To be honest,
how often does that happen Jared?

Speaker 7 (22:48):
And also what does that say to potential jurors or
even the judge?

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Should that send a message to the judge?

Speaker 6 (22:55):
Actually, well, the family's in a unique position here. When
you have a crime within a family, you have a
family that could be supporting a defendant or they're representing
a victim. So they're in a real catch twenty two.
So it's hard to set the case by case situation.
Why tactically they're not there. Is it because they don't

(23:17):
want to relive these events, or is it because they
don't want to suggest to a jury or a judge
they're not standing behind the defendant in the case.

Speaker 5 (23:28):
It's hard to say, but it happens.

Speaker 6 (23:30):
Families are often stuck in the middle when you have
a case like this.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
It's a bummer though, because this was a blended family.
This was their first blended family vacation. So obviously these kids,
and we've talked about it here many times whenever we're
discussing this case. Having a stepbrother and a stepsister who
are you know, recently kind of blended and a younger
son was also in this room as well that they
were sharing.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Remember Grandma was there, mem and there were Mom and
Dad were there.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
There was a lot of people, and cruisers are expensive
and rooms are tight and expensive, So shoving everybody in
a room, I guess ultimately was the wrong call. And
I think that's really the cautionary tale here, and ultimately
his parent, I don't know, should at least stand behind
him to get him through this process, given that he's underage.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
But again, that's a nightmare to be in.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
And I totally see the legal optics in terms of
how that could acceur, as though there.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
What side do they sit on? Does Dad sit on
the prosecutor side?

Speaker 8 (24:30):
And Mom?

Speaker 4 (24:31):
You know, Dad is of course Anna kept their's biological father,
and then his wife is the biological mother of the suspect,
the minor, the sixteen year old t you know, what
side do they sit on? And what is that going
to send the message to the jury. It might be
a combination of both stuff, right, Like, I think both
things can be true in which they don't want to

(24:52):
relive it and it, you know, optically, they don't want
to jeopardize justice for Anna or convict, the son.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
All of those things can be true. He's so young,
it's terrible, sixteen.

Speaker 7 (25:07):
And Anna Koepner's father, if I'm remembering correctly, he said
as much that they did not plan to go to
the trial. He's like, I held her, I was there
when she was found, and that is all I ever
need to know and nothing will be gained, So talk
about it.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
I witnesses, though I suspect they're going to be called
those witnesses, right, So they're going to be there at
some point.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
Absolutely.

Speaker 6 (25:29):
I think that their testimony in explaining how the defendant
and Anna were there, how they got there, who arranged
the rooms, in all of those things that it's just
going to it's extremely relevant. Now that's different than sitting
in the courtroom, being compelled to the stand and telling

(25:49):
the truth. Clearly, they weren't there when the act occurred.
They can be there to testify to the background of
how this crime happened. So I think they're want to
be in that courtroom one way or another. But whether
or not they're going to be there at the pre
trial proceedings or sitting there as the testimonies unfolding, other
than stand is another question.

Speaker 7 (26:10):
Absolutely, and listen if you're just joining us, this is
true crime tonight and we're talking about the case of
eighteen year old Florida High School senior Anna Keepner. Her
sixteen year old step brother has been charged with first
degree murder where she lost her life on the Carnival
cruise ship. If you want to weigh in eighty eight
to three to one crime. And we are getting our

(26:32):
legal analysis from Jarrett Farantino, Prosecutor extraordinaire, who is with us.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
I wanted to go over the timeline.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Really quick before we get to the timeline, because we
learned a lot today, so yeah, we need to unpack it,
but really quick, Stephanie, I think too. One of the
things that we might learn in their witness testimony to
like Jarrett was talking about, like how'd you guys decide
who's going to sleep were and who booked the tickets
and all those little things. One of the things that

(27:00):
we might learn, you know, early on in this case,
Anna Keptner's ex boyfriend came out. He said that he
saw the suspect in this case crawl on top of
Anna during like one of their FaceTime calls. That's right,
and it made him so uncomfortable. He told his parents,
And I was watching an interview with his father, and
his father said that, Yeah, he spoke with Anna Kettner's

(27:25):
mom and dad, you know. And I'm assuming that means,
you know, the husband and wife here. Right now, we
don't know if that's true, right, We just know that
the father said that.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
But I believe they're going to press that.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
I do believe that they are going to press that
you booked these rooms knowing that there was a background.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
If it's true. We don't even know if it's true though, right,
but I think according but.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
They are saying that, and if that is the cautionary
tale here that I think is really worth discussing, right
because it's a.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Spot maybe we haven't been in. You know.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Again, you want to go on a family trip, you
want to put all the siblings together, there are similar ages.
You don't necessarily think of anything sexual or creepy and
giving it all grace. I mean, obviously now in retrospect,
I think we should all learn that opposite sexes that
are not relation during these teenage years, you know, separation. Okay,

(28:17):
I think that's the productive takeaway that knowing what we
know now. But if there was previous knowledge by mom
or by mom and dad. It really bums me out
because that's a little stickier, and again not placing blame
on them, but I do think it's important for us
to discuss it.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Ears up.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
If you're hearing something, make sure you are actionable and
don't just brush it under the wood, you know, under
the carpet.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
And I don't think there's a world in which they
would be held criminally responsible for that. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
If they knew right like something happened, or that the
ex boyfriend saw something, you know, because they might not
have even believed it to be true, and all that
didn't have been stop it or Anna, they might have
asked her and it might have made her uncomfortable, and
she might have said, no, it was no big deal,
you know what I mean, Like she always have a
way of rationalizing step family exactly.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Of course, he's.

Speaker 6 (29:10):
Just very telling though if he did that on a
FaceTime call when he knows he's being watched, and he
didn't when he had the opportunity to act with alone,
this is someone who cannot control himself.

Speaker 5 (29:23):
That's what jumps out of me.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
And it's scary that he's just out there living life
a trigger alert.

Speaker 7 (29:30):
We're going to be mentioning some of the information that
has come out and been unsealed in court, and it
does involve some details of a first grade murder as
well as an aggravated sexual abuse charge, and it does
involve a minor. So here is the timeline that we
know about. So at seven thirty pm, surveillance captured the defendant,

(29:54):
sixteen year old Timothy Hudson, as well as the victim
and a Kepner. They were entering their share stateroom. Okay,
they go in at seven thirty. Now at eight fourteen pm,
Anna Kepner is alive and she was active on Snapchat
at the time, So that's what's happening eight fourteen pm.
At ten thirteen pm, sixteen year old defendant Timothy Hudson

(30:20):
peaks his head out, looks down the hallway and exits
the stateroom alone. Anna Keepner never emerges after that, and
then the ship Wi Fi routers they track the defendant
carrying Anna Kepner's phone onto a different deck and the
phone then was traced to a trash can and later
discover recovered from a collection bin by an employee.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
So I feel like we're glossing over some stuff real quick.
The one where you just said where he he left
and he looked left and right down the hallway at
ten thirteen. The prosecutors they added on to that and
they said in other CCTV when he would leave the room,
that was the only time did that.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
So he was looking to see So.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
I think that's like an important consciously yeah, consciously looking
to see who was around, you know, because he's going
to go take he's taking her phone at this point
and going to dump it and doesn't want anybody to
see him, right, And I think that was an important point.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
And one other thing just to add to that. There
is a younger sibling. Anna has a younger brother who
had stepped out to go, you know, do what you
do on cruises. You know, cruises are the best is
with this entire family, his you know, extended family.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Now.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
So the younger brother, aged fourteen, he leaves and then
tries to come back and that he can't get the
door open, and he says, you know that maybe he
heard some stuff, some rumblings, et cetera, but you know,
doesn't really think anything of it. And then when he
eventually is able to go back. He goes into the
room and just crashes on the bed and not realizing
Anna Keepner is sleeping and she's dead in the room.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Right.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
Well, so the younger brother returned at twelve oh nine am.
He was like out exploring the day, you know, he's
doing taking photos, living his best life.

Speaker 7 (32:03):
Right.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
He comes back at twelve o nine and he told
investigators that the suspect Hudson locked him from entering. He
said he was changing his clothes and made him wait
in the hallway for a few minutes, and then when
he entered the room, all the closet doors were open
and the cabin lights were on, something that he said
was weird.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
So even the little brother was like, that's weird, and what.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
A tough spot for this little boy to be in,
you know, like, what a miserable spot for this kid
to be in.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Knowing what we know now, right.

Speaker 7 (32:35):
Absolutely, Jarrett, what does this timeline say to you, if anything?

Speaker 5 (32:40):
Well, a couple of things.

Speaker 6 (32:42):
So we know that the little was gone out of
the room, and the only so there's a video camera
of the outside of that room. They know who went in,
they know who went out. The only two people in
that room were Timothy and Anna. So now you have
a lock bocked murder mystery. So basically means it eliminates

(33:05):
the third party claim at all, if it ever even
existed in the case. But I'm trying to put my
head in the or my mind in the spot of
the investigators looking at this case. The other thing is
those out of the ordinary actions that were observed by
the little brother. The room was in a state of
disarray or unusually lit, and the closets were open, he

(33:26):
was originally blocked from entering. Those are things that support
the timeline that Anna was killed prior to that, and
her body was hidden so he wouldn't discover it.

Speaker 5 (33:36):
All of those things are supportive the.

Speaker 6 (33:38):
Point Body made that Timothy looked left and right, up
and down the hallway. Number one, he may have been
looking for anybody who may have heard what had gone
on in the room. And two, he's going to dump
the phone rid of evidence he knows that could hurt him.
So all of those things together, it's important to understand
when it happened, how it happened, and who was involved.

(34:00):
That timeline lays that out perfectly.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
It does.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
And one thing that Courtney mentioned that I think is
so important is that at eight fourteen, Anna is active
on Snapchat. And we know from the prosecutors, from the
document that was released today that the younger brother left
at like seven fifty eight, So the younger brother was gone,
and there is evidence that Anna Kepner was active on

(34:23):
her phone fifteen minutes later. So the only two people
in that room alive are Anna and Tim.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
It makes me so nauseous. Yeah, it makes me so
nauseous and upset. You know, this is a really young kid. Also,
like what is happening with this young man? If in
fact this is true by the way, So again we've
got to make sure this kid hasn't had a trial yet,
so we don't want to throw all things at him.
But this is a tough one period the end, and

(34:53):
some of the details of you know, sweet Anna Kepner's
body is hard to come back from. We will probably
want to go through some of those details again trigger alert.

Speaker 7 (35:04):
Yeah, And I mean this goes back to Stephanie, as
you mentioned for quite a while, benefit of the doubt
or whatever you want to call it, how if indeed
her life was ended by her stepbrother, it seemed like
it had to have been an accident, and you know,
the forensic and autopsy findings seem to paint a very

(35:25):
very different story. So the autopsy confirmed what's been thought
for a while, and it's the fact that Anna Koepner's
cause of death was mechanical exphyxiation. What the prosecutor stated
is that it was likely caused by the defendant, her stepbrother,
placing her in a chokehold for three to five minutes.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
That is an intolerably long time.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
So long, have you, guys ever I did this with
the Idaho student murders when you know there's nine minutes,
Have you guys ever sat and counted how long like
a minute is when there's like when it's silent, Have
you ever done that? I challenge all the listeners to
try that. Just sit in silence for a minute. It's
excruciatingly long. It's crazy. Now imagine you've just been sexually

(36:15):
assaulted and now you're being choked out. It's terrible. And
I don't have any sympathy for this kid. I don't
care if he's sixteen. He's a menace and he's dangerous.
And the last thing Anna Kepner saw before she passed
away was his dumb face.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
I don't disagree with your body, and I'm so sorry
to say it allegedly, but you're right, that is an
excruciating amount of time. Literally, try holding your breath for
one minute is hard, Oh my god, you know, so
imagine gasping for air. I mean, Anna Keviner still had
her braces on. You know, this was someone who was
like he was just getting started. You know, obviously there's

(36:56):
a lot going on. She had, her parents were in
a very contentious custody thing. You know, she didn't have
a lot of access to her own mother, allegedly according
to the mother. And you know, blending a family is
so beautiful. That's the dream, right if you've lost at
love and you have children, blending them like the Brady Bunch,
like this is what everyone aspires to. And what a

(37:19):
nightmare this has become. And that's why again, I'm so
glad Jarrett that you're here so we could all learn.
And it's a cautionary tale because even mom not standing
behind her son, I get why that wouldn't happen legally.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
But sorry, you got to face the music.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
And I don't know how a marriage survives all of
this mess. Story for a different day.

Speaker 6 (37:42):
Yeah, I just think, you know, it's tough to have
a blended family like this in the beginning, to begin with,
when you're blending your family and getting everyone to get
along blended or not. Sometimes you know, your typical nuclear family.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Your birth family exactly rough.

Speaker 6 (37:59):
Time getting a long so add to it now this stress.
I cannot imagine the loss of a child, the pending
trial and likely many multiple years incarceration of their child.
Who's responsible the children that are left behind, the parents
that are outside.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
Of this marriage. There's ex spouses here too, who, yes,
I am sure, are not.

Speaker 6 (38:23):
Pleased with the individuals who put these kids in the
same room. So all of other disastrous situation that's going
to get.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
He's probably absolutely this is a little kid. He's like
I think he's like twelve or thirteen, And this poor
kid has to deal with this the rest of his life,
like had I not left.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Me, you know what I mean? And listen, he is
in within the sound of my voice. It is not
your fault, of course, it is not his fault, your fault.
But it's so true.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
But you know, again, like so many probably everybody and
to some degree carries some little something in their hearts.
Even if you consciously you know it's not your fault,
you still carry that forever. Even Mema, you know, Anna's grandmother,
who was also present on the boat. I saw an
interview with her right after the murder had happened, and
she was kind in defense of the stepbrother, but was

(39:15):
in defense of the stepbrother, like it seemed like they
had a normal step sibling relationship. Like nothing seemed super
out of the ordinary to Grandma, and she didn't really
she felt for the scenario. So now she's coming to
terms with this. They were potentially allegedly, allegedly allegedly sharing
space with a potential killer.

Speaker 7 (39:37):
Yeah, And that example of the interview with Mema way
back when when we all saw that does go to
show sometimes you really have no idea what is going
on or is below the surface.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
I just wanted to get through.

Speaker 7 (39:51):
A few more of the facts of the case that
course were unsealed today. And the force of the chokehold,
which is the manner of death. It was indeed, it
was severe enough to burst Anna Kepner's ear drum. And
when Anna Kipner's body was found again hidden purposely under
the bed, it appeared because she was covered with life jackets.

(40:15):
Her pants were on, however, her underwear was not organized correctly.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
You can just leave it there.

Speaker 7 (40:23):
And then DNA wise, there was semen that was recovered
from her match the defendant, hard to say her step brother,
with a high probability.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
So that is the information.

Speaker 7 (40:39):
And then there was one other sexual incident that was
excluded any that it was that person.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
So that's where the.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Eighteen years old she might have met somebody on the
cruise and maybe had likings for somebody, and she had
met somebody, so what who cares? Meanwhile, the stepbrother's potentially
allegedly getting jealous under the surface and maybe motive why
he's murdering her, putting her in a chokehold and shoving
her under a bed, leaving her little body there surrounded

(41:09):
by life preservers. What a sicko at sixteen years old.
If this is true, I'm sick and beyond words.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Yeah, but I mean they have to mention it because
they have to exclude him as a s of course,
he is forensically excluded, and it goes to motive, Yes
it does potentially, we don't know, but potentially does go
to motive.

Speaker 7 (41:28):
Well, Jared, given the information that was just laid out,
what would you would you say any of this goes
to motive or how would you treat this information?

Speaker 6 (41:36):
Well, it certainly could, It certainly could, but you have
to consider did he did Timothy make prior statements?

Speaker 5 (41:43):
Was he jealous of anybody going near?

Speaker 6 (41:46):
And again we just heard there was a FaceTime call
where he got on top of her allegedly when she
was talking to her boyfriend. Was response to being jealous
that she was talking to her boyfriend. If that is
the case, then certainly the fact that she may have
caught the attention of another guest on the cruise ship
would have driven him to a point where he acted out.

(42:07):
But again, it would be a fun putting together statements
and anything. Maybe somebody may have observed or something he
had said along the way. But yeah, it's entirely possible,
and if it was connected, you would present that evidence
because motive, although it doesn't it's not required to be proven.
The jury's going to wonder what the hell happened here?

Speaker 4 (42:28):
I want to see those snapchat messages because it's listen
playing it out. Maybe she met this in really nice
you know kid, her age whatever. They're talking on snapchat.
The brothers like who are you talking to? And she's like, oh,
so and so, and he, you know, rages out something
like that, something like that.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
I don't know, but we're going to find out. We
are going to find out.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
Well, kid, here, We've got talkbacks to get to in
all the major cases we've been covering, and Jarrett Farantino's
going to stay with us to unpack them all and
don't forget. Give us a call at eighty eight or
are you on crime to share your thoughts about any
of tonight's stories. We definitely want to hear from you.
Keep it right here on True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney
Armstrong and Body Move In and Jarrett Farantino, our very
favorite prosecutor here to answer any and all of your
legal questions.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
We have many.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Also, just a quick little programming no, because Jared, this
is the last time you'll be with us for the season,
but we want to keep the conversations and the talkbacks
and the questions coming.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
So if you go to the KT Studio's website.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
We'll have a feature there where you can just keep
those coming and we will play them when we're back.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
And we're doing a big launch with a.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Video element and all the things, so we'll be recording
in on that real soon.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Right lights, action make up all of our worst nightments.
I can't wear my pajamas anymore? What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
No, of course you can wear your pajamas. We're never
getting out of our pajamas, Isn't it so weird?

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Though?

Speaker 2 (44:08):
The first thing we all think is like, oh my god,
we got to get dressed and like get our hair done.
And I think the mandate is no, none of the above.
We're going to just keep it as authentic as we can.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
I was like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
And then we'll get extensions and like suddenly I was
going to come.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Back to a whole other person. So I'm like, I'm
sitting on how ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
So we're going to really, you know, fight the urge
to be anything other than ourselves.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
But boy, it's tough. It's hard.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
But anyway, all that to be said, we're so glad
that you're here, Jarrett, and let's go to a talkback.

Speaker 9 (44:40):
Hey, this is Christy from Missouri, and I'm a retired
high school teacher, so I'm calling about the vice principal
who did not get any time or anything charged against
her for dismissing the kid who supposedly had a gun
and they ended up shooting his teachers. I don't think
she should have gotten like four years or anything, but
something should have happened, especially with a six year old.

(45:01):
She should have taken him in right then and there,
and or one of the teachers into the office and
had him searched. It's just ridiculous this day and age.
You can't assume he has a gun too small for
his pocket, or you just can't do that. I've had
principals or vice principals who kind of blew things off
because the vice principals is generally used to the discipline

(45:24):
of the school and you can't blow things off.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
So true, that's an important point.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
It's so true because, by the way, how about the
danger to every teacher and every single person in there.
You know, Fortunately this wasn't fatal, but it almost was.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Easily it could have been.

Speaker 4 (45:41):
She felt like she was dying. The teacher I remember,
she was so scared and she said that she felt
like she was dying.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Listen.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
I definitely agree with a talkback. I do believe Ebany Parker,
the assistant principle in this case, should have searched the
little kid. But we've gotten so many talkbacks about this
case from sachers all over the country who and we're
getting a lot of conflicting rules, like in this state

(46:09):
they can search, in this one they can't. And I
feel like it's really dependent on the school district or
something that you're in. I really don't know, but it
feels that way. So maybe there was something in her
district where they were not allowed to search the person.
They could search the backpack, which they did, but they
couldn't search him, or she was just like, eh, mom's

(46:32):
on the way. If it's the latter, then yeah, I
do believe something should have happened to her, not forty years,
not by any stretch, but some kind of situation.

Speaker 7 (46:42):
If anyone's not familiar with the case we're talking about,
it's regarding Ebony Parker, who is a former assistant principal
at an elementary school and basically under her watch, a
six year old student who other students has said it
was kind of known he had a gun, That information

(47:02):
was brought to the vice principal, and the child wasn't searched. Ultimately,
the six year old child's first grade teacher he shot her.
She survived, and ultimately, at the end of the trial,
the judge decided that the vice principal's actions did not
constitute a crime under Virginia law. Jared, what are your

(47:24):
thoughts on this incendiaria case?

Speaker 5 (47:26):
I have a lot of thoughts on this.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
So part of my data represent school districts as well
as a retired prosecutor, I still practice, so I advise
school districts every day and I get calls like this
where there's a concern expressed about a child. At some
point there has to be a decision to say, the
hell with the rules.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
There's a safety issue.

Speaker 6 (47:51):
And I've often said this, I would defend a decision
made for safety rather than an indefensible decision. Okay, and
when you're being this child has a gun, check the child,
call your local police in your school, get them in
there to search the child.

Speaker 5 (48:11):
It's a six year old child.

Speaker 6 (48:13):
Find a way to have that conversation that it does
not mean what happened here to the level of a crime,
which is another question. But the teacher got a ten
million dollars civil judgment here because it was clearly negligence.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Thanks you question, Jared.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Now you said you would defend the for the safety
right to go ahead and search the person.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
But what if it was your kid? Would you be
like okay with it?

Speaker 6 (48:38):
Here's the thing, Yes, I would be because if I
would be, so would it be my kid armed and
they caught the situation. Yes, because it's clear negligence and
you're running the risk of all these other like as
a parent, yes, if my kid brought a gun, there,
search my kid, find it absolutely, because again it's clearly negligence.

Speaker 5 (49:01):
Like you, what are we worried about? Here are we
worried about?

Speaker 6 (49:04):
I'm going to get in trold violating a six year
old's constitutional rights? Guess what you just cost the district
ten million bucks on the civil side, if that's what
you're worried about, on the criminal side, or on the
safety side, which is even more important.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
A teacher got shot. So this is in your.

Speaker 6 (49:21):
Mixed feelings on this and every situation is unique, but
you have to find a way to make that situation
de escalated and made safe as soon as possible. There
is a second is too long?

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Can I ask a very obvious basic question Legally speaking,
I understand that the principle should have been held you know,
liable in some way. You know, we all agree, and
the caller as well, you know, not to the extent
that the charges would recommend. But where are the parents
that are allowing a six year old kid to go
to school with a gun in their pocket? Why are
they not being held accountable? Again, back to this, we've

(49:59):
seen in other cases where a child has gone to
school and somehow got you know, either gifted a gun
or took a gun, and ultimately mom and dad were
looking the other way and we're out to lunch. Why
is the principal in charge of the parenting?

Speaker 6 (50:14):
Well, Stephanie, that's a great question, and you think about
Ethan Trombley and the Cadetic exactly. Particularly again, it's a
case by case situation. In that case, his parents essentially
put the gun in hand. So the question becomes, how
did this child come into possession of the gun is
another question, And if there is any culpability on the

(50:35):
part of the parent, they.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
Don't get a pass for a lot.

Speaker 6 (50:38):
So the parents are respond to a certain extent at
the time that child is in the custody of the
school and the parents aren't there. The school is in
loco parentes, right. I mean not to go all Latin
on everybody, but that's me.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
But I was very excited.

Speaker 5 (50:55):
You're acting as the custodial parent. They're looking out and
a lot of teop. She aren't going to like to
hear that.

Speaker 6 (51:01):
But they're in the best position to make this situation
safe at that time. Does not mean there is not
an accountability or won't be an accounting for the parents.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
And what about the bus driver on the way there?
Are they equally accountable you know? Or is that the
same rule?

Speaker 6 (51:17):
It depends what was known to these individuals. Now, if
the bus driver has no clue and it's just transforming
the child, he or she would bear no responsibility to
search individuals.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
Coming on us.

Speaker 6 (51:29):
This is all about what was known, when was it known,
and what was done as a result. And again, it
sucks that we have to play Monday morning quarterback because
there's no doubt that this principle would have done everything.

Speaker 5 (51:43):
In her power to bring from happening.

Speaker 6 (51:46):
I don't doubt it, Which is why she's really not
criminally liable as opposed to like Lakeland where the police
officer faced criminal charges.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
Different situation altogether.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Right, And Stephanie, I wanted to let you know to
the mom of the sixth year old did face criminal charges.
She got three and a half years for child neglect,
gun and drug charges. So she's definitely being held some
in some way responsible. So there's good news on that front,
I guess, right, hopefully she has learned her lesson. And

(52:19):
do we want to go to another.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Talk about Yeah. My name is Mari, I'm coming from Connecticut.

Speaker 10 (52:24):
I'm a therapist and a social worker with a question
for Jared Farantino. So basically the situation is, I have
a client who got arrested in Connecticut and he violated
his probation in Pennsylvania by getting arrested by violating their
probation Connecticut because they drove to Pennsylvania. He made parole

(52:45):
in Connecticut after being there for fourteen months. However, Pennsylvania
wants to come get him and incarcerate him for another
six months, I think, although it's not really clear, so
he hasn't heard anything from Pennsylvania and he's wanting to
go to Pennsylvania to get his sentence over with, and
I know the time counts in Connecticut. I'm just wondering,

(53:08):
what are there guidelines for picking up a prisoner in
a different date and also why would another state like
Pennsylvania want to pay for Connecticut resident. Anyway, those are
my questions. I know they're long, and I'm so sorry, but.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
I love you guys so much.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Thank you Marie. That one's complicated. So I don't know
the answer to this. This is an extradition process, right.

Speaker 5 (53:30):
Yes, so it's an inner state. So here's the situation.

Speaker 6 (53:34):
It sounds like this gentleman is on roll or probation
in the state of Pennsylvania, has a new arrest in Connecticut,
and now has the detainer in Pennsylvania as a result
of that new arrest. The question is what and how
long is Pennsylvania going to this issue? Are they going

(53:55):
to come and get this person? A lot of times
it has to do with the grading of the offense.
Is the new offense a felony or a misdemeanor? That
sets the timeline. There are very very accessible rules, interstate
subpoena rules, state weren't rules, interstate extraditional rules that you
can kind of put square peg square hole.

Speaker 5 (54:17):
In relation to the charge. So it's a very charge
specific question.

Speaker 6 (54:22):
But if I'm understanding the question, maybe Pennsylvania wants one
for something else.

Speaker 5 (54:26):
If they're pushing it this hard.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
And I would I would say too, it's really going
to depend on the crime, right, Like, if if this
is just like a bench weren't for like a parking
ticket or something stupid like that, they're not going to
pay to have him extradited. But if there was a
serious crime committed or something that they consider a serious crime,
they're gonna want him back in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 6 (54:45):
Right which is why the grating is important. But also
things get stuck in the system too. This could end
up standing. His best bet is to contact a lawyer
in Pennsylvania have them address it on his path.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
One hundred percent advice. Do you have another talkback?

Speaker 8 (55:03):
Hello, ladies, you have Jared Farantino on our famous wonderful,
well loved prosecutor question about the Lacey Anthony. I was
wondering how long do they keep that evidence when somebody
has been convicted?

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Is there a time frame that they'd be able to
retest that duct tape? Thanks? Guys, have a good one.
What a great voice gets me every time she's a voice.
That was Stephanie from Pennsylvania.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
How long does this date keep evidence on a case
that's been adjudicated or not.

Speaker 5 (55:33):
So so on a case.

Speaker 6 (55:35):
So that was a question about Lacy Peterson's duct tape right,
so correct?

Speaker 3 (55:39):
She said Tacy Anthony my bash Okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (55:41):
No, she said Lacey Anderson or late Anthony. So she's
she got two cases together, but.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
There's duct tape in both.

Speaker 6 (55:50):
So's because she said after conviction, so we know Scott
Peterson was.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
So the question is how long keep that in? The
answer is so long as the appellate process.

Speaker 6 (56:04):
Is still alive. It's a state specific question. So Scott
Peterson originally was sentenced to death, that case had an
extended appellate tail, so evidence in that case, it's a
homicide to begin with, your right to appeal is pretty extended.
Then it was a death penalty case, so you can

(56:26):
bet they're going to hang on to that evidence for
an extremely long time. But it's statutory in a state
we had always kept evidence through the appellate process. We
would end up with cars and an in pound loty,
like we got to get rid of this car. It's
a case from nineteen ninety two, Like can we get
rid of it? You would go in front of the

(56:46):
court and ask for a destruction order, but you would
demonstrate to the court the case and the defendant have
exhausted the appeals and things of that nature. So routinely
it's a state issue again based on the graph of
the crime and whether or not there's an appeal process
still alive.

Speaker 7 (57:04):
Jett, people, I mean calling from the left coast and
the right coast and from all in the middle, and
you always give such sound advice and help us really
navigate all of.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
The complexities of these cases.

Speaker 7 (57:17):
And we just appreciate you greatly.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
We love you, Jarrett. You're actually the best. I'm so
much more of you to come.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
We are just getting started, and the prosecutor himself there's
a spinoff in your future, baby, no question.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Because everybody has legal questions.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
You know, there is no end to the amount of
questions that we all have, and some of them might
be anecdotal in your personal life. So keep those coming
to and keep stacking any of your legal questions, either
personal or otherwise, because Jarrett will you know, will answer
them all.

Speaker 7 (57:58):
So thank you so much. Dare it and listen anyone
who wants more of him? Everyone does. Best selling author
on top of being a star former prosecutor. You should
grab his book Mother's Murders and Motivation. It is excellent
and available on Amazon, and you can follow Jarrett on
Instagram at Jarrett far and Tino keep it here at

(58:20):
True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We've been
talking true crime all the time. I'm staph here with
Courtney and Body. We have Taha, Sam and Adam in
the control room. Guys, listen, are you all feeling summer
upon you? I feel a little behind the eight ball
on all things summer, but.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Here we are. Anybody feeling it? Oh?

Speaker 7 (58:52):
My video, Summer is coming way faster. I mean, I'm
getting the countdown of school days from my kid and
I want it to not be true. But guess what,
wishing doesn't make it so, And it's coming, and I too,
am behind a ball and it's coming at me quick.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
I signed a check from March fourteenth and to the
Lord above, so I am months. I don't even know
what day it is, but Honestly, it feels like I'm
still chasing winter.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
So here we are.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
I hope everybody's gearing up for a great one. But man,
a little bit sooner than I think any of us
were totally remembering. So anyway, lots of talkbacks to get
to as well. And ham Bondi, the former you know
DOJ who is no longer had stepped down, but of
course was so instrumental in the release of the Epstein files.

(59:46):
That's been highly debated whether she has been enough of
an advocate or if she was the only reason that
the files were in fact released.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Either way, it's been controversial. So she's officially.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Going in front of the House Committee to discuss all
things Epstein, and I feel confident that's going to be fruitful.

Speaker 7 (01:00:07):
Well, I think that's good, and I'm going to give
one opinion before the facts.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
But you said.

Speaker 7 (01:00:13):
There's an open question about whether or not she was
a strong enough advocate.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
My answer is hard no, hard pass. But she still
has a chance. She might still do it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
She she may really come in hot though in the
bitter end. Here listen, she's putting it all on the line.
This is a woman who might be able to stand
on her own and really speak her truth on behalf
of all women and victims, male or female in the world.
She may have some of these pieces of information that

(01:00:47):
could actually allow real justice to move forward.

Speaker 7 (01:00:49):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Listen, she's been diagnosed with cancer, which is awful, by
the way, And I say that simply because sometimes that
kind of a thing can also mess with your compass
a little bit, right, like you get jarred your foundation,
your values. Sometimes that gets really put to the test.
By the way, She's going to be fine. I think
that's at least all things said. So it's just a

(01:01:11):
scary word to ever have associated with someone, so our
hearts really do. We're rooting for you, but I'm also
rooting for her to really do the right thing here.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
Yeah, and you know, I'd be fine if she went
in there and we didn't hear about how the doo
was doing so good, Like let's no dowb talk actionable
information from her. I mean, we have to hold these
people to the carpet in my thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:01:35):
Let me just catch people up who aren't who aren't
as quite up to date as we are with former
Attorney General Pam Bondi, and we have been quite up
to date on her So despite the medical treatment and yes, Stephanie,
it does appear she will be doing great after surgery
for her thyroid cancer. She is scheduled to testify this

(01:01:56):
very Friday before the House Oversight Committee.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
And it goes back, Yeah, it's major. It all goes
back to.

Speaker 7 (01:02:02):
The handling of the Jeffrey Ebstein files. So it's interesting
because Pambondi no longer is the Attorney General. She's going
to testify as a private citizen. And Pam Bondi is
going to do this following a legal dispute where the DOJ,
initially the Department of Justice, argued that the Oversight Committee

(01:02:28):
should not be able to have her testify because her
subpoena was invalidated because she was now the former Attorney General.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
So that was yeah, exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Always a technicality, there's always a technicality on either side. Again,
not getting political Republicans and Democrats, they're always back and
forth the technicality or wait till you see what they
did and you remember what they did, you think that's bad?

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
What about them?

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
And guess what, Pam Bondy, you get to stand here
as an American citizen, as a woman, as a woman
who's fighting through really tough things like so many Americans
and humans that are dealing with disease and struggle and
medical bills and the fear of all of the things.
She will be fine, but God willing and all the things.
All that to be said, Yeah, this is a real

(01:03:16):
legacy moment. She knows all the information. Again, despite the
fact that she said there was nothing to see there
there was nothing in the files.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Turns out that was not accurate.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
And then there was no files because they had seen everything.
Turns out that for sure was not accurate. Then the
pitifil redaction process that went down. But again, she was
working well for system a system, a very very very
compromised system. And I don't mean just specifically those in office.
Now I'm going to go on a limb and say

(01:03:50):
the system is a larger one that has encapsulated many
in this case. So this is not a point I'm
finding myself lost in the sauce in terms of the politics,
in terms of where I lay my hat, and I
remained so open minded and hopeful and I really really
think she might do the right thing.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
I really want to hear about this missing minute too.
Why did she exactly I mean, there's there's a lot
of things that she has said that have literally come
around and like slapped her in the face that it
was untrue and that she was literally lying about it
to the American public. Now listen, I don't know if
that's what she was told, like some of these things,

(01:04:31):
like you know, there's a missing minute in the Epsteine
prison video, right, and it was proven and she addressed
it and she said, oh, no, there's always a missing
minute in every system across America something like that, right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Come to find out that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Oh, here's the missing She was holding all the documents
whenber she had all the binders that were on her desk.
She was going to release them all the next day.
And then it was like, oh, actually, I don't even
know what you guys are talking about, you idiots.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
So I'd like some answers. I would like, like, who
was telling you to lie?

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
And why? I want to know why were you lying?
Who were you protecting?

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Why are also being called to this carpet Pam BONDI
should be, But like all of them, it's only women
that are going down for the crime of men.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
Again, just they're lying for these men.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
It's it's crazy, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
I'm off my side. I don't know, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:05:26):
And the Stuffanie said, Oh, you know, maybe it's our
tired to do the right thing and listen. Perhaps it is,
But I really think the past behavior determines future behavior.
Ninety nine percent of the time this woman has showed.
Let's even make believe that she.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
Had no choice.

Speaker 7 (01:05:43):
And this may be true, she had no choice but
to lie to the public, of which she was representing
us as the highest attorney in the land.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
But let's just make that so.

Speaker 7 (01:05:54):
She still chose not to turn herself around when asked
to turn around and simply look at the victims survivors
who are mentioned in this case, who she was sat
in a room with, and she wouldn't turn her body.
That is morality, that is humanity. That is not going correctly.

(01:06:16):
I don't care what your job description is, a good
find your body around?

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Well, is it possible, though, when you're in the pressure
cooker that she surely was in right, this is a
problem that she inherited, and is it possible. I don't
know why I'm defending Pam BONDI I too found it
all so appalling. I'm just trying to be very clear
about both sides, you know, because again this is a
woman who's now been kicked out of the club. Her
job has been given away to a man to who

(01:06:43):
was don't get me started on the on the tree
of yuck. But she does have this unique opportunity. And
remember Taylor, you know Marjorie Taylor Green, who also was
on the other side of the Epstein saga, and she
really stood up, and she really went full circle and

(01:07:04):
put her entire livelihood on the line. And whether you
agree with our politics or you love her politics sort.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
Of not the point.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
This is one of those things that should be very inclusive.
We're all against pedophilia, and victims are coming forward, they're
being ignored. It's really this story does not seem to
go away. And Pam Bondi knows more probably than anyone.

Speaker 7 (01:07:31):
Well, but you know, you just made the point, the
correct point about Marjorie Taylor Green. Once her eyes were
open to the information that were in the files, she
changed her sans guess what, Pam Bondi has known more
and earlier than almost anybody else and has not yet
had that change of heart or the on switch to

(01:07:53):
her humanity.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Would you give her agrees?

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
And how do we all feel about this, because this
is a takeaway, because I think we all struggle with this,
is it? Would she be given grace even despite all
of that? And by the way, I'm the biggest grand
stander on this one, so we know that. I think
about the Epstein files all day at night. It makes
me so sad that there has not been any real
accountability here. But if Pam Bondy has a change of heart,

(01:08:18):
if she really does come to the carpet and and
on behalf of anyone, any one of us who has
been on the other side of abuse, despite your age,
or your sex or anything, and she comes forward and
stands up, would we all offer her the grace and
the space to be able.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
To have changed her opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
I think we have to allow people to evolve, and yes,
sometimes past behavior. Of course it's a real clunker. She
has done a lot of clunky things. And I'm praying
that Thomas Massey in his last seven months might also
be the reining horse that's going to actually lead the
charge here. But Pam Bondy is in a free spot.

(01:08:58):
She's no longer in a tough spot. She doesn't have
a bunch of people. You know, she's outside of the orbit.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
Now, she's not in the beehive, she's not being hypnotized.
You know, she's not well, yeah, she's going to be abroad.

Speaker 7 (01:09:10):
But to answer your question, would I give her grace
one hundred percent?

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
I hope she proves me so wrong.

Speaker 7 (01:09:16):
And I know I'm not going to eat any of
the words I just said because I know, but obvious
when and if this magical moment happens, which she has
the power to make happen, then absolutely. But in terms
of her pan BONDI being out of the quote club,
it does appear that she is going to be coming

(01:09:41):
back on slightly different circumstances. So she will be returning
to the administration, and she's going to be joining the
Presidential Council of Advisors on Science and Technology, and she's
also going to be on a new board focused on
AI policy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Oh, how exciting given that the Epstein files. In my opinion,
this is again, this is not even my opinion. I'm
going to go on record here the largest scandals and
crimes of this century, in my humble opinion, and we
cover a lot of crimes, is the Epstein files. And
data centers. Watch out for data centers and AI. Now

(01:10:20):
that I've said it, keep your ears out. Those are
going to be two of the more critical things of
our generation, honestly, and she's a gatekeeper on both, which
is wild.

Speaker 7 (01:10:30):
It's wild, but this will be really interesting on Friday.
I mean, everybody on both sides wants to ask her questions.

Speaker 4 (01:10:39):
Body, I didn't know that she had been appointed in
this new role. Me gone for good. That changes everything you,
It changes everything for me. I'm still expecting her to
tow the line.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
That's why you keep the job. She gets the job
because it keeps her in the beehive. It gets to
keep the saving club. Don't forget your jacket, your letter jacket. Again,
this is not against our current administration.

Speaker 4 (01:11:02):
This is a general thought of all right, because I
don't necessarily think that there is anything on like President
Trump or anything like that, but like the system that
controls everything, there is right and the system is upset
by something. Pam Bondi says that position might not you know,
maybe not be offered to her anymore or something. You know,

(01:11:25):
So I don't expect I don't expect this woman to
stand up for victims period.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
May you not look a bunch of victims in the fild.
She didn't when she came, when they all came out.
The courage it takes to come back as it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
Standing right behind her, and she's right behind her.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
I know it makes me infuriated when I'm recalling, and
there was an indignance about it again, but are you
dow being indignant?

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
But is that a script?

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Are these jobs technically scripted internally? And it's like the
person who can keep a straight face while delivering that
message ultimately is taking the hit. So she took the hit,
but nobody else that was involved takes the hit. It's
like again, it's it's crazy making. It's like the gun thing,
the principles taking the hit, which they should, as should
Pam Bondy, but the person's applying the gus and also

(01:12:19):
needs to be also held accountable.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
And it's mind blowing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
We're gonna have alien invasions practically before we get accountability
for the Epstein files.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
And maybe Pam Bondy can share some light.

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
Maybe I think it is possible that you know Pam Bondy,
she has this terrible diagnosis of thyroid cancer. She might
have known for quite some time and she needs time
off to heal from this. And the administration in this
case was like, listen, go out.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
With the bang. It will make us look good if
we let you go after this. Now you know she's.

Speaker 4 (01:12:52):
Gonna I don't know. It could be scripted, is what
I'm trying to say. It absolutely could be go to Hills.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
Yeah. Sorry, as a throwback too, who doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
I just want to watch Christencapillary you in LC all day,
all night fighte Spencer Pratt maybe going to be your
new mayor in Los Angeles.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
I doubt this.

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
I doubt that anyway, stick around because we've got a
lot more to dig into. The stories might be winding down,
but the talkbacks and the dms are still crashing in.
Keep it ray here True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney
and Body and of course Taha and Sam and Adam. Listen,
keep all your talkbacks coming, even if we're we're on
break no sweat, we.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Still want to get those talkbacks.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
And you can also go to the KT website KT
Underscore Studios dot com and there's a section there where
you're able to also leave all of your summer plans.
We want to hear about any upcoming trips or tricks
or things that you have.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
In the ether.

Speaker 7 (01:14:09):
We want to hear all of that, and it is
on KT dash studios dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
What did I say? Did I say? Underscore?

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
You did the worst?

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
Listen?

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
We and Courtney was there when the KT studios website
was created for the very first time, all KT studios
which stands for Kitchen Table was taken, so we had
to add this dash like KT dash studios dot com
and now we're kind of had to live with it,
and it's so super annoying.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
So the dash is very important. So please, please, please,
please keep.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
The conversation going because we will deeply miss you.

Speaker 11 (01:14:51):
Let's go to a talk by Hey about the Coburger case.
In the back of my mind, all I can think
anytime the life sheet is brought up and the Coburger
being able to plead the way that he did, and
my gut feels like it has something to do with
the way that IgG was used in this case and
the fact that the laws have not caught up with
the technology and they don't think they're ready to battle

(01:15:12):
it out. They want to use it as much as
possible until someone raises us. Think about it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
That's a good point, such a good I think that's
something that C. C.

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
Moore kind of talks about too, is that, you know,
the laws really have to catch up with technology, and
you guys know, passing laws in this country it's literally
an act of Congress, like you know what I mean,
Like literally it takes years.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
So the laws are typically always behind.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
That's why AI has kind of been able to run
them up because there's no like.

Speaker 3 (01:15:44):
Real laws, right.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
So Yeah, No, I totally agree with the talk back
the laws and that the tech are going to battle
it out and it's going to be epic to watch.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
Also, wherever your.

Speaker 7 (01:15:57):
Calling from from sounded so magical with the bird?

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Yeah, are your magical land? Are you am making this time?
I obsessed with birds? Did you guys know that?

Speaker 3 (01:16:08):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
You ever listen to on her backyard Courtney on a
telephone to anyone, It's like, there's parrots in the backyard.
I'm like, do you have herots? How many birds are
possibly chirping on your shoulders? Snow white? Yeah, there is,
She's gathering all the birds.

Speaker 4 (01:16:21):
There's a bird on TikTok that sings bacon pancakes, and
I am obsessed with this bird, and it's it's kind
of like my happy place.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Like when I go to.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
Bed, I watch her tiktoks because they're all joyful, and
I go to bed feeling okay, all right, like you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
I love birds. I hadn't.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
I was on a walk today with my weighted vest.
I might add, by the way, it's weighted. Best season.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
We're back. So if you're listening on your walk, toss
it on.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Toss it on just for a few minutes, doesn't need
to be for a long time.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
But I had an owl during the day kind of
follow on me and we made like very real eye contact.
I out, is it bad? Was following me? I don't know,
and it like locked.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
And we locked eyes, and I every kind of felt
at ease. Was I just what did something this happened today?
I'm so glad we're talking about it. What are the
odds that we're talking about birds And the only time
I've opened my window.

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
Two birds flew in. Stop it? Oh am? I is
that is that a bad sign? Everybody gave a bad look.
I am not sup in your house. In my house
from a window, it was even like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
The doors open, like no, it was in a window,
and there were the cutest little nuggets and me trying
to grawl these little nuggets out of my house.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
You know, I was like it absurd, but they were
so cute and I was able to.

Speaker 5 (01:17:58):
Love that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
But they did get out safely, I'm happy to report.
But it's the owl a bad sign and it's poisons
and I.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
Know, but they're they're all there are all the scary movies.

Speaker 7 (01:18:09):
I like, well, we'll stand by from the studios what
we've got burdenings.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
Yeah, I think I think owls are good.

Speaker 7 (01:18:15):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
It's like if you had a if you had a
crow fly into your house and look.

Speaker 6 (01:18:20):
At you that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Owls are not crows bringing presents.

Speaker 4 (01:18:25):
Did you know that if you some president or crow,
they tell all their other crow friends that you're a
good person. I'm not even kidding, I'm totally serious. And
they they'll bring you presents.

Speaker 7 (01:18:36):
Yes, and they will kind of keep grudges for generations.

Speaker 4 (01:18:40):
Like literally, if you hurt crow, they tell all their
friends that's the beast killed the baby.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
They will stalk you for generals generation birds that hysterical, No,
because I kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Love the they sit on the wires right like all
of the crows. They're soy, are so clever. I always
feel like they're protective. They give They give you presents,
like what kind of a press.

Speaker 4 (01:19:04):
Yeah, don't go get like little peanut shells or little baretts.
They find in like yards, you know, like stuff way
and they will literally bring it to you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
I feel like I've had peanut shells recently too. I
can do am I in a scary movie right now?

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
Oh? Could I jump in? We have a caller on
the line.

Speaker 12 (01:19:22):
Her name is Darla, and she wants to jump in
and join the conversation. But she has a comment about
I think Anna Kapner is are you there with us?

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
Hi, Darla?

Speaker 13 (01:19:33):
Yes, this is Darla from Missouri show.

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
We Love You. The weather shout out.

Speaker 13 (01:19:42):
Yes, the weather is fantastic here in Missouri.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
It's been beautiful this week.

Speaker 13 (01:19:48):
I want to give a shout out to Jarrett.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
Oh just Jared still with us.

Speaker 13 (01:19:57):
But he's listening amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
Oh did you did you read it? Yes? It is
so good?

Speaker 13 (01:20:03):
And you know what I love about Jared's book. He
has a guardian angel baby ed.

Speaker 7 (01:20:10):
Have you guys read the book?

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
Yes? Yes, so wait that is He's going to be
so happy to hear you saying this, and.

Speaker 13 (01:20:18):
Darla just, oh my gosh, I love it.

Speaker 7 (01:20:21):
All I was gonna say was not only will he
hear this, because Jared listen tomorrow, and so will his
mom who always listen, so so she and gosh, oh, Darling,
you just made everyone's night.

Speaker 13 (01:20:35):
No, she raised such a fine gentleman. And you know,
in this world we need to find some good men. Yep,
and it's hard to find him, but there's a lot
of them out there. But there's also a lot of
really bad men like that Timothy Hoson.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
Mm. That's right, that's all right.

Speaker 4 (01:20:55):
Even he's only sixteen, he's still a bad man. Thank
you so much for your called.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Darl Are we really Jarla? Thank you for calling. We
love you. Yeah, that was great.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
How many great men do we have here? Everybody raise
their hand. We have Sam and Adam, we have Joseph
and Jarrett.

Speaker 3 (01:21:14):
Like what a group of And I was raised by
such great men. Brothers are the best. Dad was the best.
Like we have a really great Yeah, Gabe.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
Also team iHeart Oscar and Tom and Brad and John
like we love our partners, like we have a really
solid group of all star kick ass men. So there
are some clunkers out there, but the goodwill out.

Speaker 4 (01:21:39):
Ways would be my first curse word.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
Listen, you know I have spring can I say? Right?

Speaker 7 (01:21:52):
But I cannot believe I have not been bleeped by
the way and people who are no, which is shocking
because my mouth. It's just I am a litany of curse.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
And not once.

Speaker 4 (01:22:07):
I was the first one, but I was no. I
you know what I was talking about. I was talking
about don f with cats. Oh yeah, the F word.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
That was so you No one's ever gotten.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
Not a single person has really gone wrong with the US.

Speaker 3 (01:22:28):
Did you tell the one for me? Just now?

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
I did say something a little racy, just this moment ago.
But aside from that, I don't know that I'm a
huge cursor in the real world.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Although I love a good trying to be once in
a blue moon.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
You know, it's like a sailor, like an Irish sailor
feels so good.

Speaker 3 (01:22:49):
Yeah, like pop Eye. No, but you're not. It's not
in I mean, I it's a string of them.

Speaker 7 (01:22:54):
It's just the way I speak, and I really should
change it, but here we are.

Speaker 3 (01:22:57):
You know, don't go changing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
You not go changing Courtney Armstrong or Body move it.
And by the way, Body, even weirder than Summer being
upon us is that you guys are all rolling into
crime Con and Body, of course, is like the mayor
of crime Con. So she's going to be there tomorrow,
bright and early, so she's going to be calling in
from crime Con. But technically this would make tonight our

(01:23:21):
last night altogether, because you guys are all meeting her
in crime Con and leaving me for Dad, basically with
Jarrett Farantino to you know, lick our wounds and cry
in the corner. But you guys will be raging without
us for sure. But buddy, is that too much to
call in? Is that going to be a bummer?

Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
No, So tomorrow is like the official like kickoff.

Speaker 4 (01:23:41):
It's more social. Tomorrow they're having like a nineties VIP party,
the type situation everybody dresses up in the nineties, and
I think there's going to be a band. Maybe it
will be like a Creed impersonator, because it's like a
nineties with arms wide open.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
Or something, you know what I mean like that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Like I just so, I just felt like Booty and
the hope By and the Blowfish.

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24:12):
Yes, the party starts at seven, so I'm thinking I'll
call like the second hour and I'll just like sneak
out of the party and like maybe I'll drag Joseph
for something with me or Cheryl you love it and
make them everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Yeah, the longer the better and whatever works. If something
goes wonky or you're literally doing the electric.

Speaker 7 (01:24:34):
Slide in the middle of the dance floor, you will
for dancing on table.

Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
In my head, we are all like line dancing in
the middle of crime con. How great would that be.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
We should all take line dancing lessons before we're back,
and when we come back, we could all dance.

Speaker 4 (01:24:48):
I think we all dance through the breaks anyway. No,
I take it just first. I take crime kind like
very seriously. Like I go to the the sessions. You know,
I obviously presented as well any times and whatnot. I'm
not doing that this year, but like the Consolvs family
is present, yes, yeah, and they're talking about true crime
content creators and also being like, you know, cognizant of

(01:25:12):
the victims, and you know, I want to hear from
them directly, like, how can we do better as as
a genre? As a genre, Like I don't pretend to
be an advocate. I wouldn't know how to advocate, but
I do want to have empathy and compassion, and so
I like the guard avocate.

Speaker 3 (01:25:28):
Why would you say you're not an advocate?

Speaker 4 (01:25:30):
Well, because advocates are like professional, like they know who
to call, they know, you know the things I don't like.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
I you know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Isn't an advocate in true crime if you're an advocate
of victims, which boy, I'm not an advocate more than
ever empathetic to them, but you're an advocate Courtney Armstrung
is as well, like if there was anything that you
could do to keep their voices heard and keep their
stories on the front line, using their platform to do that.
So victim word, that's a form of advocacy. No, maybe, okay,

(01:26:03):
what absolutely sport.

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
You'll move in advocate continue your story.

Speaker 12 (01:26:07):
Sorry, but yeah, I know it sounds like crime con.
I'm excited to hear from you tomorrow and on Saturday.
We'll continue meeting up with each other.

Speaker 4 (01:26:18):
And yes, so Courtney and Tahar are coming in on Saturday, right,
and so Joseph is presenting at ten thirty in the morning, Okay, Saturday,
just so you guys know, and we told him we
would be there, so you got to be there bright
and early.

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
I hope you guys are face painting and holding up signs.
No Joseph.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
Joseph's also the mayor of crime Con because he is
such great talks and he's so clever. He covered the
Idaho Student Editors last year on the main stage. And
of course Nancy Grace will be there. I'm terribly sorry
to be missing it. And you know it's our anniversary.
What's where we met?

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
Where we know?

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
I mean I met body at crime Con and I
can say how grateful I am for that, so me do.

Speaker 3 (01:27:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
I gotta tell you this is my favorite thing. This
show is my favorite show period. I love it so much,
and the reason why is because of the community that
is so smart and kind. It doesn't mean that we
all have to agree, doesn't mean that our callers have
to always agree, but I love that we're able to
have real conversations and evolve and grow and change our opinions.

(01:27:29):
So many of you guys the two of you especially,
but also so many of our listeners and callers have
really shaped my thoughts and I started one way and
now feel another. And we want all those talkbacks to
keep on coming and those conversations not to stop. And also,
if you want to leave any of your favorite moments
of the season, leave some talkbacks about that, because we'll

(01:27:52):
be playing them all night tomorrow night. And even for
Courtney and Body, we'd love to hear any of your
favorite moments and anything that you learned this season, just
because we've covered so much. Any real standbacks, you know,
let's do it and you as well.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
We're gonna have the whole crew over.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
I'm hopeful that even the iHeart guys, we don't get
to really see behind the scenes very often. Oscar Ramirez,
who we love, he was he really launched us. With
John Peeke and obviously Tom Pullman and Brad Harden. Hopefully
they might even want to join us tomorrow, and if not,
Gabe and Whitney and Ava, you know, we'll have a
little celebration and the more body live from Crime Con

(01:28:36):
the better.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:28:38):
We will be there tomorrow and I'll be calling in,
so stay tuned. For that and if I don't get
to hear from me for some reason, have a good summer. Guys,
we love you too.

Speaker 3 (01:28:47):
Stay safe, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow. Good Night,

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