D4vd Investigation Deep Dive, Caleb Flynn Trial Delay, and Tupac's Lawsuit Twist

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk
true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
We have made it to Sunday.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
May third, and we have got a stacked night of headlines.
Private investigator Steve Fischer is with us and he's going
to give us take on last week's bombshell revelations. This
is regarding the David Berks List Revus Hernandez case, so
buckle up. Also, we're going to talk about the main
factor that's delaying the trial of Nick Reiner. He's for

(00:47):
the murder of his parents, Rob and Michelle Reiner. And
we're going to talk about the prosecution against the American
Idol contestant turned music pastor. He is accused of murder
and is facing a tight new deadline and put in
a new La County civil suit. Finally reveal the full
story behind who killed Tupac Shakur. Yeah, update on that,

(01:09):
and in the second hour here to break a lot
of those stories down and more. We will have veteran
prosecutor Jared Farentino joining us.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
Love.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
I love a Jarrett Farantino moment. I love a Jared
Farantino moment. He's great.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, Courtney Armstrong, I'm here with Body movin. Stephanie Leidecker
is out this evening, but we also have producer Taha,
Sam and Adam in the control room to take your calls.
Eight eight eight three one crime. We'd love to hear
from you and Body. Should we get right into it
with the talk pack.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, let's dig right in.

Speaker 5 (01:43):
I'm listening to you speak about singer Davis. All the
evidence bloils my mind, but I'm assuming the prosecution would
be able to confirm through the Uber driver what time
she was actually dropped off, even after his bonus texts
he sent just to kind of cover up the fact
that he killed her allegedly and alligedly allegedly obvious.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Gigi, great talkback and to dig in. Listen our first guest.
We're going to dig into that talk back with our
first guest joining us tonight is special guest Steven Fisher.
He is a private investigator and founder of Search Investigations
who conducted an independent investigation tied to singer David's case,
and he's worked to uncover a lot of evidence connected

(02:24):
to the property at the center of it. He's licensed
in six dates and he's located thirty three missing people
since twenty twenty three. Very proud to know him, Steve.
Thank you for being here and I'm so honored to
have you on my show. Finally.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Oh thanks for having me. And I'm I guess you
know I've been a big fan of you two. I
do respect the I mean, I think you really show
that investigations can be done without, you know, with integrity
and everything, and it doesn't have to be right. Some
things you see and you know, it's not like you
to be investigator, it's some magic license or a you know,

(03:01):
like you show that, like it just takes like be
willing to dig in and.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
It doesn't have to be a show.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
It was really inspiring to me, I really, you know.
It was funny. I was on the I'm on the
search right now on the Grand Canyon and there's another investigator
from Texas here and I was talking to him about
have you seen the look at you know, watch it
like it just shows that like, you know, they're just
digging in. It doesn't. You don't. There's not this special
like detective school you have to go to or anything.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
It just right.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
You just have to want to persevere get the answered.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
You have to have a little common sense and dig
your heels in a little bit. So our talk we
have a talk the talk back and it's a listener
that called in and she said, I'm assuming the prosecution
would be able to confirm through the Uber driver what
time she was actually dropped off. What do you think
about that, Stevens, that's probably that's probably correct. They would
able to pull a search warrant. We the search ones

(03:49):
are currently underseal right now, right, so we don't know
is that correct?

Speaker 4 (03:54):
So they're not technically under steal anymore, but now they're
under a protective order. So they've unsealed them, but they
put them under a protective order, same effect, same thing,
different technical but but yeah, so that could be true. However,
now the Uber driver took her from Lake elsinor to

(04:14):
Los Angeles, which is a long ride. It's like a
very long drive, so they might remember it that way.
Otherwise it might not remember the ride because this was
months and months and months before you know, so very
long time. However, they probably do have some recollection of it,
because it's like, I don't think that that many times
they're getting ride of that distance, and it also gives
a lot of time for there to be conversation.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Right, I'm assuming that there's a search warrant tied to
uber Oh, that they're going to be able to pull
the records and get some So as a reminder, Celeste
Revas Hernandez, she was only fourteen years old and she
vanished after visiting you know, the singer and the accused
in this case, David his real name is David Burke,
at his Hollywood Hills home in April twenty twenty five

(04:57):
months later, Celeste Reevas Hernandez disc member remains we're found
in the tesla link to him. David is now charged
with first degree murder with special circumstances that can mean
life without parole or the death penalty. Newly unsealed autopsy
results revealed multiple penetrating wounds, dismemberment, and possible drugs inner system,

(05:18):
adding to the growing pressions around the timeline, the evidence
and whether anything may have been missed early on. And
that's where our guest Stephen Fisher comes in because he
found quite a bit of the evidence that we've now
since learned about in the criminal complaint that I went
over last week. Steve, take us back to the beginning.
How did you first get involved in this case and

(05:40):
what led you to conduct this independent investigation that you've
been doing.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
So the got involved was I was literally watching is
that my dad that was watching the news on the morning,
And there also there's this story of this breaking story
about that there is a body found at a Hollywood
impound yard, and at the time I had a case
going on in LA of a missing female. And actually

(06:04):
that day there were two females found in vehicles and
nam pound yards. One another one was found then in
pound yard in South LA. So there was a fear
that this could possibly be the case that I was
looking for. So I was in contact with LAPD and
the Medical Standler's office, and then because of the tattoos,
I was able to find out pretty greaickly that it

(06:25):
wasn't wasn't the person I was looking for. However, if
I remember right, I think I did, like a local
news interview or something. Sometimes they'll call me just because
of missing persons there or you know, cass like that.
And then through that, the owner of the home got
in touch with me and that's how I got in.
He called me, he said, listen, I'm I don't even

(06:47):
live in the state, and I didn't rent this house
to this guy, David. I have no idea. I've never
heard his name before. I rented it to this guy,
and at the time, we didn't even know the connection
that Josh Marshall was the main It's just like, I
rent this house to somebody else who's name didn't come up,
and then he's like, I need to find out what's

(07:08):
going on.

Speaker 6 (07:09):
You know.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
That's how it started, but it quickly evolved into something
different because then when we then we found out it
was a note fourteen year old at the time, and
he was like, he was like, we got to find
out what happened and make sure that because by this
time things are kind of you know, days have gone

(07:30):
by and things are in motion and people are moving
out of the house and search for ands and stuff,
and he's like, we need to like make sure that
that this is an't overlook this was a fourteen year old.
You know, it did come out that it was you know,
it was a minor, and so you know, he's never
he's a lot of people say, oh, well, he's just
trying to protect the home value. So he's never once

(07:51):
discussed the value of the home or it was lost
in value. It's truly not. He's like I have a
daughters around the same age, she said. And his wife
by the way, yeah, he and his wife, or of
my clients, I always but she is just as she's
on every call that we have, and there now is
just turned into it. We need to make sure that
he's buried under the jail.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know, Steve, when you first got to the property,
we're talking about that, Uh, David Burke was renting. What
was there anything specific you were looking for or did
you have a focus going in?

Speaker 4 (08:32):
We didn't know what to look for going in because
we didn't even know the living situation. By this time
we had kind of unraveled that. Okay, David's the singer.
Josh is his manager. You know, there was some conversation
with the Josh like what's going on here? And he's like, oh,
these kids, these I'm never going to do this again
type of thing, and and then he wanted out of

(08:53):
the lease. You know, in which the owner was like, fine,
find out, like we still know what's going on, but
we didn't know. We honestly didn't know. And that's one
of the things he's like, you know, can you go,
because they did, like they moved their stuff out right away,
like the next day, and they said basically anything that
was left there, they're like they turned the keysone and
they're like, we're gone. And now David then there wasn't

(09:15):
even back from tour.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
He was still out of the pre he was still out.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
Yeah, there was a private investigator that showed up that
was kind of like overseeing some things, and there was
some people with masks and they spent a few hours
and they're gone, and they left a tremendous amount of
stuff beyond it was kind of shocking.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
So you you, you RUNT covered some items that raised
some concerns, and you also uncovered a lot of things
digitally too, you know, emails and photos and twitch streams
and you know, things like that, as well as the
physical items on the property. Without getting into anything too
sensitive to protect the investigation obviously, what stood out what

(09:55):
out of all of it, what has stood out to
you the most.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
Well as so far as the visual pieces of evidence
go the burn, occasion of the chainsaw. They're kind of
tied first. But the thing that I think has been
most interesting, this dynamic that's gone on in this case
has been and it's funny up to this day, there's
still this whole group of people this blowback about a home.

(10:20):
He's shared information with some people that were in his
David's Discord and stuff.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
And oh yeah, just like you know.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
So what happened in this case is I as an investigator,
it's my job to go out and interview people and
make connections and get informants. And I ended up making
connections with three people from his Discord, people that were
rods and stuff like that. And these people have become
super super close in my investment is I trust them

(10:48):
with all the of it. They've seen everything that I have,
they have shared.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
Really, I just want to explain, David had a Discord server,
and in Discord is we've talked about Escord on this
show quite a bit, so our listeners should be familiar
with it. And in that Discord server you have other
people that help you run things and those people are
called mods. So what Stephen Fisher did was he developed
a relationship with those moderators that he was able to

(11:16):
get information from. I just wanted to explain very quickly.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
To the listeners that's a very good explanation. And so
there's a lot of blowback from people because I admitted
to it. I was like, Yeah, these people are critically important,
they're like performance, but they're also kind of like co
investigating this with me, because that discord is like learning
a new language. It is, it really is, and it's
so complicated. There's so many different levels and layers. But

(11:40):
they these are younger. There's a twenty three year old,
twenty six year old and twenty nine year old and
they just don't understand that world.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Well, they have their own language.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
Oh absolutely, and it's like Wired magazine. This Wired magazine
just did a big story about the three of them, and.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
So we love to check it out.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
It's been and people are like, oh, you're gonna case
could get charges, can get tossed out because you shared information.
There's you can share. I can share information with whoever
you'll do it. Yeah, a lot of hours they could
share with whoever. Are there's no That's what you do
is investor. You've got to go out just like you've
done body before, you've got to go out and you've
got to develop these relationships and listen, law enforcement uses informants.
You know absolutely if.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
You're just joining us, this is true crime tonight and
we're talking about the case of Celeste Revs. Hernandez. David
Burke is being charged with her murder. We are joined
by Stephen Fisher, private investigator, very closely attached to the case. Steve,
from your perspective, was there anything about the initial investigation
that raised any red flags or felt questionable and complete?

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Good question?

Speaker 4 (12:44):
There was, you know, one was we discovered the burn
cage and the there was a chainsaw, and I understand
there's two chainsaws, but there's one. We discovered there was
four terabytes of surveillance from the house across the street
that wasn't gotten in time, so it didn't overwrite. But
they upgraded their system and they pulled the drive out.

(13:05):
They had given it to me. But the thing is,
it's a specialized system that can never be unencrypted once
you pull a drive out, and that that's the camera
that looked right across the street at the house. So
there were some things that was really concerned about it
in the owners of the house. We're really concerned about
and people think that, Like I would sometimes put information
out there just to be like, hey, look at the

(13:25):
information I got. It was very strategic. We were like, listen,
there's a burncage of the house and we can't seem
to get anybody's attention. Nobody seemed to really care about it,
and so we would do that to put pressure on
on them, you know, to have to be accountable to it.
And now it's come up that they're being used in
the case.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Well, here's the thing, Steve. When David was arrested, we
were on the show and I was like, I believe
that the LAPD is playing the DA's hand. They're forcing
the hand. And guess what, I think that you were.
You were a part of that, but in a good way.
I think that you being very public because listen, Steve,
he's on the show right now, but he's when he's
not on the show and he's not searching for missing

(14:03):
people and conducting investigations, he's active on social media. Follow
him on X by the way, it's SF Underscore investigates.
He's active on social media, and he's been asking the
LAPD and the DA really critical questions very publicly, and
it's getting a lot of attention, and I do think
that that might have forced their hand a little bit.
Not just you, but I think you being so public

(14:24):
about some of the missteps that we're made and whatnot
in the grand jury and you know, all the stuff
that's been going on. I really do think that you
played a really positive part in getting some justice for
little fourteen year old Celestio of Ernandez. And I am
so proud to call you my friend. Oh it's like
watching a love fest between you two.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Of investigative mind, listen, do stick around because when we
come back, Private Investigator Steve Fisher will also be sticking around.
We're going to dig into the timeline and some key
questions that are still hanging over the David case. There
are so many going to talk about misconceptions that people
have about the case and how can we clarify them.

(15:05):
Keep it here at True Crime Tonight, we are talking
true crime all the time. Welcome back to True Crime
Tonight on iHeartRadio. We are talking true crime all the time.

(15:25):
Later in the show, Jarrett Farantino, prosecutor, is going to
be joining us to discuss why Tupac shcor.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Is back in the news.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
But right now we're continuing our conversation about the singer
David's case. He's accused of murdering fourteen year old Celeste
Rebus Hernandez. And we're joined by private investigator Steve Fisher.
He's the founder of Search Investigations and conducted an independent
investigation pivotally tied to this case.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
So Steve, welcome again. We're so happy to have you here.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
How does an independent investigation like yours, how does that
differ from law enforcement and how it can move a
case forward?

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Great question.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
So you know, we actually have a little bit more
sometimes we have some more flex to be a little
wigger room than law enforcement. They're very much tied to
policies and procedures. Now they have a greater power because
they when it comes to search ones and stuff like that,
the ability if we don't, however, we have the ability
to kind of like walk find lines and that they

(16:31):
can't necessarily not because it break the law, but because
it's against internal policy. So listen, a lot of cases,
law enforcement will ask me to do certain thing. They'll
ask me to put some things out, you know, to
get reactions and whatnot, and I work closely in a
lot of cases with them. Some I don't have a
good relationship with UT I'll be honestly, I don't have

(16:52):
a great relationship with it, or I don't have a
relationship with the detectives and the David case. However, at
court I've had LAPD other detectives up and thank me
and you know, say that there's things that need to
be out there, so you know we oftentimes can work
close together the ones that aren't willing to. Is that's
all ego driven?

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Right? Yeah? Now, I think that your relationship with law
enforcement through many cases that I followed you through has
been pretty good and I think you've done a great job. Now,
I'm a huge proponent of the timeline as an investigative tool, right, Yeah,
I'm a huge proponent of this, and you've created a
spectacular timeline in the David Celestio Sernanez case on your

(17:35):
website and people, if you want to find it, you
can go to his twitter on or his acts. I
guess s F Underscore Investigates and he's posted it there.
But when you look at this timeline in this case
that you've put together, what what do things not add
up for you? Where does that occur?

Speaker 4 (17:51):
So it's wild looking at that timeline, it's almost like
you see, it's almost like you see this adrenaline surge,
you know, after he kills her and he goes on
the life and everything's clicking, and then all of a
sudden you see it just like a crash. And you know,
I'll never like the reason I built that timeline is
I've run to focus on. That'stically when you're talking about
is the focus on the time of the day or

(18:11):
two before he killed her took according to the prosecutors,
if the days are right up up until shortly after
he dismembered her, if those dates are right, And I
wanted to just see his actions and stuff because I'll
never understand, never ever understand how somebody kills another human
that's not justified in doing so. And I'm not talking
about self defense or anything. And then you know, it's

(18:33):
so strange how I never get numb to it. Listen,
we all see around a lot of cases where there's
stuff inside, but I'm I'm always baffled by it. But
to see this one's different. This is like this guy,
like I just can't. I can see that image, could
see him cheering with his hands in the air at
the party the day after he killed her. He's like,
but it's about him. It's his party, and he's got

(18:55):
and everybody's cheering back at him, and I'm like, dude,
you just killed somebody, like twelve hours ago.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
For those who don't know, For those who don't know,
what in the time that he's talking about is that
David had just come out of Coachella. Okay, so he
said he's at Coachella. He does two sets that ended
around April twenty twentieth or twenty first, around that time frame,
and then on April twenty second, he did a they

(19:23):
or he there was an announcement of a pop up
event in New York City, and then on the twenty third,
I'm sorry, on April twenty second, this pop up was
announced and he starts these arguments or him and Selester
are arguing now in text message during this time. Okay,
so the Coachella wine down is happening, all these events

(19:44):
are popping up to celebrate his album release, and at
the same time all this happening, he's him and Selester
arguing about you know, Celestia's saying that she wants more
from her life. You know, he's promised her a future,
and he's seeing all these other women, and you know,
this is fourteen years old, by the way, all right,
And then on April twenty third, on the timeline is

(20:04):
when they're alleging that David sends the uber to Celeste's
home and he murders her and watches her bleed out,
according to the criminal complaint. And then on the twenty fourth,
right the next day, he has the Withered Tour tickets
officially go on sale, and he's posting on Instagram and whatnot.

(20:27):
Oh my my Withthered Tour is officially on sale, and
he's on Twitch streaming. You know, he's celebrating his album release, right,
and then on the twenty fifth, there's a there's a
release party and he's you know, as Steve said, he's cheering,
you know, he's got his hands up in the air.
And meanwhile, for all we know, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, poor

(20:48):
Celes Reevas Hernandez, who's fourteen years old, is deceased in
his garage or his tesla wherever he put her, and
he's just not a care in the world. It's very
interesting the timeline, and it's it shows the calculated cold
heart that this guy has, in my opinion, and it's

(21:08):
alleged that he did that all this because those events
were happening. Celeste was apparently, according to the criminal complaint,
ready to talk about you know, I hesitate to you
use the word relationship because she wasn't at the age
of consent right this control he had over her, let's
let's call it, that she was ready to talk and

(21:28):
I apparently was threatening him to do so, and he
allegedly murdered her to protect this this these events that
were coming up, and to see him cheering at these
events and getting all the accolades really kind of twist
your stomach. And Steve, if you really well laid it
out so well on that timeline, I really want people
to go take a.

Speaker 6 (21:47):
Look at it.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Good job, Yeah, thank you, it's it's it's it's just
see those are mine. I don't know how somebody can
go on little life like that. And also I just
don't understand someone I don't understand like why did he
go to Santa Barbara three times? Well, you know, like
where was she in these twelve days. Right, I'm so confused.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
I don't know either.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
What do you I mean, what why do you think
he went three times?

Speaker 3 (22:16):
I don't know. Well, we know that he disposed of
her belongings along along it's somewhere along the road, right.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
I suppose why not just dispose of her? Is it
a control thing? Is it a Is it that he
couldn't let go for her?

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Like?

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Why not just dump her and the car in the ocean?

Speaker 3 (22:33):
I agree, I don't know. Well, I don't know that
we'll ever know. But part of me thinks that, you know,
part of me thinks that if he just had her
passport with him, that's not a lot, right, So if
he got pulled over, there's nothing nefarious, you know whatnot.
But if he has a bunch of things, then maybe,
you know, that's more suspicious. Maybe I think, I really

(22:55):
don't know.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
I think you body out of the car, and I
think that the past working thing came out a standler.
So I don't know. I went up there looking for
the chainsaw. I'll tell you that I was there. I
was up there last Thursday looking for because I think
he I think he went up there. I think the
chainsaw is probably in the water. But he like being
in court seeing this guy. He's so little and so weak.

(23:17):
He's tin It's like feet are like dangling off the
round practically, and when they they hand up him to
the desk in the courtroom, you have to do it
around and buys that because those small I swear, it's
so crazy. But anyway, he wouldn't be able to throw
that chainsaw very far in the water, so I don't
find that damn chansaw on the shore somewhere. So they
have anybody your finger because I want.

Speaker 6 (23:40):
Her to be complete, absolutely real, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Steve has these really great drones and he often posts, uh,
these really high quality images any crowd sources. It's very cool.
He crowdsources, you know, the searches. Sometimes he'll be like, hey,
here's this, you know, very long Hard's land that I've
flown the drone over. Let me know if you see anything,
and you can zoom in, like from way high up

(24:08):
in the air, zoom in on these little pebbles even
and look for things.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
So yeah, I think Rodney case and it was somebody
it was it was somebody from a YouTube shows viewer
that that found the car in the water.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Oh, I didn't know that really.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
Yeah, And in fact it was grizzly and she's yeah,
she still got it on. There's a video with a
loop on it now and they called it in the
short store when they could get anybody to pay attention.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Right, that's trust me, I know all about that.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
If you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight,
and we are speaking about the celastree of Us Hernandez
case and David Burke, who is charged with her murder,
and we're joined by private investigator Steve Fisher. You've worked
a lot of these cases, Steve, and are there any
sort of common uh, anything common that can slow or

(25:05):
derail investigations?

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well?

Speaker 3 (25:09):
Or that particularly.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
So I only do missing persons cases exclusively, so and
her started as ant or it has to at least
start as a missing case. So there's a lot that
can do you listen, I mean we see we see
families derail these cases a lot of times there or
I mean things get really really things can get very
very messy in these cases. There's I mean, not all

(25:34):
of the cases, Like the public only hears about the
cases that kind of go sideways, right, because the other
cases don't need media attention because we've been able to
resolve them and stuff. So it's not like everybody's like, oh,
you're you're just a cloud chaser, y'all your cases you
want media attack. No, these are just the ones that
have to be attached to that get made the attention
because they're they couldn't be solved easily, you know, and

(25:56):
and and they're hard cases. I have a lot, Listen,
I have a lot. People say, oh, you don't even
you have so many unsolved cases. I do, I do.
I missed that and it's really frustrating to leave the
sentinelos and the of the world and you know, holl
And snap and you know. I mean there's just so many,
you know, but it's true, and so so many things

(26:21):
can derail I mean, it listened to a lot of times,
like I'm all for the public being involved in case.
I'm all for transparency in cases, and sometimes just the
in fighting that starts Ladas Smash and Rogers. That's all
of my cases. Like yeah, it's so so yeah, I mean,
there's there's a lot, but you know, but all these
people deserve to be found and no matter what the

(26:42):
circumstances were are and and every one of them and
if they're not around anymore, should need to be brought
back home.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
You know, in missing persons cases, it's typically said that
the first twenty four to forty eight hours are the
most critical and most important. Now in this case, you know,
she had been missing for months and months and months,
but it kind of sounds like people kind of know
where she was. Does that affect the outcome at all?

Speaker 4 (27:06):
It does? And listen, I'm not trying to pile on
of the parents. I'm not asking people. Do you think
everybody's got to look at like these are things they
can go wrong? And like, listen, she was not a
missing person like David sent the uber to her home
and like yelp snor to get her bring her. Law
enforcement should have been notified that she was back home.
She should have been going to school. And I'm sure

(27:27):
that's why they weren't notified, because if she's a missing
person in the CPS isn't involved, you know, so stuff
like that can't happen. Like she should have been going
to school. That uber was sent on a Wednesday night.
It was a school night, you know, and she shouldn't
have been having to make these adult decisions like, am

(27:48):
I going to Hollywood the night to have sex with
an adult? Like that? She should have been like what
am I? Am I going to the mall? My girlfriends
after her?

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Exactly what color? What color lip gloss? Am I going
to wear? And what am I going to get on
English test? You know, David had coercive control over her,
in my opinion, allegedly.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Absolutely absolutely yeah, and I'm not blazing. Listen, None of
this was celeste fault. None. I don't those decisions exactly.
She listened. She was a tough kid, and she fought
back and because she had to either circumstances that there's
no fault of hers. You know that Celeste did not

(28:28):
get a fair shake in this deal.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
She didn't. I think people often forget that Celeste was
only fourteen years old because when you see pictures of her,
she does kind of appear a little bit older, right
does Listen? She was fourteen, She was eleven when they met,
and I think twelve or thirteen when they started having
a sexual relationship. And I hesitate to use the word

(28:50):
relationship because it wasn't a relationship he had. He was
in control of her. It was coersive. It was he
was grooming, grooming, that's the word I'm looking for. He
was groomer, he was an adult. But listen, Steve before
you go, and for our listeners hearing this and wanting
to understand what you do. What kinds of cases does
your team at search Investigations focus on? And how did

(29:13):
you get into this line of work.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
So the private investigations side, like I said, we only
do missing persons cases, so that's exclusively it. But then
the other side of our businesses of search and rescue
and private search and rescue, and that's like went among now,
and most of those are considered missing persons, but we
know they're not like missing in the sense that we
have an idea, like we know this person on mine
now is in the Grand Canyon. They're lost or they've

(29:37):
had an accident, and so those type of cases. I'm
very involved in search and reissetarch and rescue is a
passion of mine and I ges started in the investigation
and missing person investigations. But yeah, so it's all missing
persons and it's in body recovery. Like sometimes these missing personases,
we know that these folks aren't alive anymore, and it's
about bringing them home. And you'll find in their remains.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
That's got to be so hard to tell the family too, right,
even though they know right, But such a relief too,
But such a relief too, Steve.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
We appreciate they all have that hope that there's a miracle,
like they're going like I was living this other life
and yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
We really appreciate you taking the time and walking us
through all of this. If you want to learn more
about Steven Fisher and his work, you can check out
Search Investigations. Just do a little search for Search Investigations.
His websites is the first one that comes up, and
see where Steve and his team handle missing person cases
and search and rescue operations across the country again in
six different states. You can also follow him on Twitter

(30:41):
at sf Underscore Investigates. Steve, my buddy, thanks for being here. Listen,
we really want to hear from you. Download the iHeartRadio
app right now, do a little search for true Crime tonight,
hit the little microphone and boom you're going to be
on the show. We'll play it. And if you miss
any part of tonight's show, No Sweat, you can always
just download us that as podcast tomorrow. Like we make

(31:02):
it so easy to be part of the show. Later
in the show, we're going to be talking about the
prosecution against the American idol contestant turned music pastor. He's
accused of murderer and you know, his trials facing a
very tight new timeline. So we're going to dig into
that later. But right now, Courtney has an update on
Nick Reiner. Courtney, what he got?

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, I sure do have an update on this case,
which is sad in everyone's heart. Rob Reiner one of
the greatest filmmakers of all time. He and his wife,
producer Michelle Singer Reiner, they were found dead in their
home right here in Los Angeles back in December of
last year, and what the prosecution is alleging is that

(31:42):
their son, thirty two year old Nick Reiner, fatally stabbed
his parents to death. Nick Reiner has pleaded not guilty
to two counts of first degree murder with special circumstances,
and those circumstances involved the fact that it was multiple murders,
as well as an allegation of using a knife.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
In the exposition of a crime.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
So Nick Reiner appeared for a really brief hearing in
court last Wednesday and at the time, his defense team
and the prosecutors agreed to quite a significant delay, and
that's to allow more time for evidence gathering.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
Specifically, the autopsy.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Reports from the La County Medical Examiner have not yet
been finalized.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
Pardon me, uh you heard me?

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Really? Yeh's going on? I don't know, it's been it's
four and a half months. Oh my goodness, what so
on in the medical examiner's office?

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Give us a call if yeah, eight at eight three
to one crime. I mean, it's very curious. Obviously, we
just with private investigator Stephen Fisher. We're talking about Celestia
of as Hernandez, and a lot of information, including the
autopsy results, did not come out for quite a bit
of time.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
Well, there was a there was a protection or a
gag put on it, right was it was on a
security hold, is what I think they called it. But
it sounds like with this one they haven't finalized the results.
That's yeah, I don't I don't understand, and I'm listen.
I'm sure that there's like a reasonable explanation for that.

(33:29):
I just don't know what it is. Right four months? Oh,
so sad? Do you think?

Speaker 4 (33:34):
You know?

Speaker 6 (33:34):
I know they switched attorneys. Does that ever delay the
process at all?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Or that one didn't No, because it was the defense
attorney for well, it was this. It was the defense
attorney that that switched. Alan Jackson, who represented Karen Reid,
was initially his attorney and he, you know, had to
leave the case. He never told us why, but we
all think it's financial. And then he got a public defender,

(34:00):
I believe, a very good public defender. But the state
is the one who does the autopsy, a Los Angeles
medical examiner. So I don't it shouldn't affect it shouldn't, right.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Very interesting, Okay, Well, Nick Reiner, he remains in custody
at Los Angeles' Twin Towers Correctional Facility. He is being
held without bail and body are completely right. He's being
represented by a public defender, Kimberly Green. The judge overseeing
the case scheduled a new hearing. It's not going to

(34:33):
be until September fifteenth, Okay, so it's that is a
little bit to wait for that. And then with this update,
we just kind of wanted to give the last word
to Jake Reiner. He is the son of Robin Michelle
Reiner and also the brother to the defendant, Nick Reiner,

(34:56):
and he published an essay on April twenty fourth on
Substack if anyone wants to go read it, and it's
called Mom and Dad.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
And in this beautiful and moving.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Piece, Jake Reiner described, I mean, just the trauma of
this tragedy and saying nothing can prepare you for what
it feels like to lose both your parents instantly. At
the same time, he described this experience as a living nightmare.
And of course, and he added the pain of his
brother being the one accused of his crime. And the

(35:29):
last thing that we wanted to share was that Jake
Reiner honored his father as his hero and his mother
as the heart of their family.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
So we are sending peaceful thoughts to all involved, all
the love and thoughts to all involved. This is true
crime tonight. We're on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all
the time on Body Move In here with Courtney Armstrong
and we were just talking about the case against Nick
Reiner and the legal status of that at the moment.
But we have an update in the un University of

(36:00):
South Florida students, Courtly, what's going on down there?

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Okay, So the remains of the University of South Florida
doctoral student. Her name's Nahita Bristi. So they were officially
identified just on Friday, and that followed their discovery. Her
remains had been found in a mangrove by a kayaker,

(36:24):
but again it took until Friday for her remains to
be identified and the investigation into this University of Southern
Florida students began. It's what a waste it began after
two blank Bangladeshi doctoral students, Zamil Lamone and Nahita Bristi,

(36:46):
disappeared from the university on April sixteenth. Authorities eventually discovered
their bodies in trash bags and they were near a
bridge and in water and were linked to the killings.
So right now, one of a former University of South

(37:07):
Florida University student, Hashim Abu Garbia, he is being held
in custody without bond. So, Bodie, I know, we were
kind of holding out hope with the unknown remains.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
But yeah, this is I mean, there really wasn't. I mean,
I don't know that there was really need Dad. I
think there's always hope, right, but I think and the
inside we all, I mean everybody knew right it was
probably going to be her. What a sad thing. You know,
these were doctoral students. Do you know how hard it
I mean, you know you went to us, you know
how hard it is to be our doctoral student, Like

(37:41):
all the work you have to beat to do to
go into that and and to have their lives just
snuffed out. So it's it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
And even Zamil alone, he was planning on presenting his
thesis the week he disappeared and ultimately was found murdered.
So there's also been a little more information that's come
out on the subject on the suspect in recent days.

(38:11):
And he's the twenty six year old Hashim Abugarbia. And
in twenty twenty three he was arrested for a misdemeanor
battery and burglary and that included punching his brother and
kicking his mother. Oh yeah, and it seems like in
and around twenty twenty three he seemed to have kind

(38:35):
of a rapid mental decline.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
The suspect completed.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
A diversion program in twenty twenty four and that led
to those charges being dropped. Oh really, yes, but he
the suspect also was involuntarily committed under the Baker Act
for a seventy two hour observation for me. Yeah, he was,

(39:02):
I guess, exhibiting delusional behavior and stating I am his god.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
Quote, Oh my goodness. So I wanted to say, for
people that aren't familiar of diversion program, it's court approved.
It's an alternative to traditional criminal prosecution, right, and it's
designed to allow eligible people, you know, and they're often
first time, low level offenders, right, And it lets him

(39:29):
avoid jail time and criminal records. So he completed this
diversion program because the court allowed it. I just wanted
to clear that up.

Speaker 6 (39:39):
First, Thank you. Yeah, I wasn't familiar.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Interesting, Okay, So he completed the diversion program in twenty
twenty four, and then what.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Well, and and then he again was under a seventy
two hour observation.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Hold and I'm.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Not it's not crystal clear to me if that happened
before or after. And the family members say, and again
this is citing family members, this is not in a
court of law. But several are attributing the shift from
the suspect being a supportive son to a person having

(40:17):
these severe anger issues. And what they're thinking is heavy
cannabis use.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
So he got committed under the Baker Act in Florida, right,
And that's a Baker Act. It's involuntary emergency detention. So
someone it's in California, it would be like a fifty
one to fifty. I think it's usually someone who poses
like a really severe and immediate danger to themselves or others.

(40:46):
And it's usually because of a mental illness. Right, Okay,
so his family most likely involuntary. It's really hard, by
the way, to get somebody committed, it's really hard, is
very difficult. So he must have been in a bad state.
I don't else to see it. He must have been

(41:07):
in a bad state for them to get approved under
the Baker Act.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Right, And my understanding loosely is an absolute immediate danger
to self.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Right.

Speaker 6 (41:17):
I see.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Wow, And that's not And listen, that's not a long
time ago. Twenty twenty four is only two years ago. Yeah, right,
just not like forever ago. It's not like when he
was a kid or he outgrew this, you know, problem
that he was experiencing. This is only a couple of
years ago.

Speaker 6 (41:34):
It's not that long.

Speaker 7 (41:35):
I also found it interesting what you said, Courtney, that
you know, they're saying severe anger issues due to.

Speaker 6 (41:40):
The heavy cannabis use. You would almost think it would
be kind of reverse, Like it seems like it would
mellow you out. So although if he.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
Has a legitimate mental illness, maybe it's affecting him in
ways that it wouldn't for like me. Yes, yeah, I'm
just I don't I'm not a doctor. I'm literally guessing.
I have no idea. Please, you know, consult with your doctor.
But for me, I'm like mellow, you know, but from
other people who might have problems chemically, right, introducing foreign

(42:11):
chemicals into your body is probably not a good idea.

Speaker 6 (42:14):
That's a good point interest.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
That's exactly right. There were some.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Legalities that I found a little bit interesting. So because
these crimes, the alleged murder of these two promising doctoral
students was cold, it was calculated, and it was premeditated,
legal experts are suggesting that the suspect could face the
death penalty. And I didn't know this, but under Florida's

(42:45):
current laws, a death sentence only requires the recommendation of
eight out of twelve jurors.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Did you know that body? I did not, Wow, I
did not. I'm not surprised, I'll be. I mean, if
I'm being honest, Floria listen, Florida is very you know,
I would say they're very in getting justice. Let's look
spreeze it that way. Just you know, they are the

(43:13):
state that executed Ted Bundy too, by the way, they're
very into the death penalty down there. Yeah, I'm not surprised.
And it is a majority, right, Eight out of twelve
is definitely a majority. I mean it's right there at
the majority, but it is the majority. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
I just think I always find the intricacies of statewide differences,
of jurisdictional differences even Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah, and maybe this is something that we can discuss with,
you know, maybe Jarrett Farantino if we, if we need to.
He's going to be on the show coming up in
the next in the next segment, I believe. But you
know it's my understanding too that what's probably going to
happen is they'll do some sort of competency evaluation on
him to even determine if he could even stand trial.

(43:58):
And then number two states including Florida, I believe, won't
execute somebody who has mental illness usually usually I don't
know that to be one hundred percent true. But you know,
maybe it's something that we can clear up with Jared,
But I do believe that that they'll probably have some
sort of competency.

Speaker 6 (44:15):
Hearing was Ellen Warness, wasn't she in Florida?

Speaker 3 (44:19):
And she was absolutely right?

Speaker 6 (44:21):
And I thought hers was mental illness as well, But
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Sure I think it. I don't think that was really
determined mental after the fact. Good point, Okay, yeah, Aleen, Yeah,
Eleen Warnos. Yeah, she was one of the first women
serial killers that has been documented.

Speaker 6 (44:38):
Yeah, another Florida. Interesting but in Florida. Right.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
I'm remember that.

Speaker 6 (44:45):
I get random facts occasionally, stick with.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Me, yes, So this will be I mean, this will
be interesting as it comes as we do get closer
to the try ill, assuming there is one, because the
forensic and investigative details, at least the ones that are
laid out, I mean, including the fact that there was

(45:09):
significant volumes of blood in the kitchen where the victims,
Emil Lamone shared his residence with the suspect and attempting
to cover his tracks digitally by wiping data.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
From his car and his phone.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
So all of those things have been sort of laid
out investigatively.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
And it seems like this was premeditated as well, because
prior to the murders, right, he was doing all these
searches on his chat GPT and he was asking, like,
what happens if a human has put a black garbage
bag and thrown into a dumpster. And he was doing
all this prior to the murders, right, that's right. And
he purchased all the duct tape, the lighter fuel, firestarters,

(45:53):
and trash bags on Amazon on April seventh, so much
much poorer the murders, nine days before they disap care. Yeah, wow,
that's going to be used in court for sure. Well,
coming up at the top of the hour, Attorney Jarrett
Farantino is going to be joining us, and we're going
to dig into the American Idol alumni Caleb Harris as
he heads towards trial and a new lawsuit could finally

(46:15):
unravel the truth behind Tupac's murder. Keep it right here,
True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.
We're talking true crime all the time. I'm body move
In and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Tahahaus And

(46:38):
don't forget if you miss any part of the show.
You can always catch a podcast. We also would love
to hear from you. Give us a call eight eight
eight thirty one Crime or you can hit us up
on our socials at True Crime Tonight's Show on TikTok
and Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook. But now
here to help us for case watch, It's Casewatch on
Sunday for more is your favorite trial attorney and veteran

(47:03):
prosecutor and now best selling author, Pennsylvania prosecutor Jarrett Farantino.
Jarrett Hi, Welcome to Sunday.

Speaker 8 (47:12):
Hello. Wow, Sunday is a whole different experience.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
He's a different vibe.

Speaker 8 (47:16):
Right Courtney, Home Day Sunday. Everybody's ready to.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Go, that's right, Yeah, No, listen, we got to watch
our trials. Okay, here's a case that we're so interested
to get your legal expertise on. So only in February
of this year, many have probably heard of this. The
former American Idol contestants a guy named Caleb Flynn, and
he was charged with murder as well as tampering with evidence.

(47:47):
So it's alleged that Caleb Flynn shot his wife Ashley.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
This happened in their home.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
In Ohio, and despite the fact that Caleb Flynn initially
called nine and one and claimed an intruder was responsible,
investigators arrested him after determining evidence suggested that he staged
the scene to Rember to resemble a botched burglary. So
a lot of what we want to talk to you

(48:16):
about has to do with the deadline of the trial.
So the trial is scheduled to begin, or was scheduled
to begin literally tomorrow May fourth. Again, this incident happened
only in February, and the trial was recently pushed after
the defense requested a delay to review some newly emerging evidence.

(48:38):
So what are your thoughts on the timeline?

Speaker 8 (48:41):
Even so far, this case is moving at breakneck speed,
and I'm confused why every case has to deal with
the speedy trial rule. Okay, basically, you have to bring
a cars rated defendant to try out in six months
or a year, depending on what state you're in, and

(49:03):
it varies, but the bottom line is the clock starts
ticking once the cuffs are slapped on right, So this case,
it appears that Flynn and his defense team are holding
the prosecution's feet to the fire and want to get
to trial quickly. However, there are things that happen that

(49:25):
can toll or stop that clock. One of them is
if the defense requests a continuance. So let's just say
this May fourth date gets moved and there's a hearing
on May seventh, I believe now right to figure out
when the next.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Date's coming conference?

Speaker 8 (49:44):
Right, So from May fourth through that next conference or
any delay attributable to this particular request, that clock is
stopped so that time goes back. This is one of
the most most people become lawyers because they can't do math.
When you have to do math in our business is

(50:05):
trying to figure out what days are attributable to the
defense's delays, what days are attributable to court delays, and
what are exclusively attributable to the prosecution. And that's how
you get into hot water with the speedy trial.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Now, can I ask a question that what is the
advantage from the defense side of things to ask for
a speedy trial.

Speaker 8 (50:34):
The advantage is the prosecution may not be ready, and
if it goes that fast, evidence may not be tested
in time. Prosecutors have a lot of other cases they
may not have the opportunity to put in and commit
the resources that need to be committed for a case.
This is becoming quite a high profile.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Case as well, it really is.

Speaker 8 (50:59):
So that's the hope. The hope is get in there
quickly catch them off guard. And that is a double
edged sword though, because the time the prosecution doesn't have
to get ready, you don't have the time to get
ready to fortify your case and your defense. So as
many times as I've wanted cases to slow down, it

(51:21):
was a mutual request with the defense and the defender.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Okay, So if the trial doesn't, if the trial doesn't commence,
let's live in a world just for a moment where
the defense doesn't hold anything up anymore and the trial
clock keeps moving, okay. Is if the trial does not
commence by the date specified, I think it's July fourth, Now,

(51:47):
could his case get dismissed?

Speaker 8 (51:50):
It could if conceivably all of that time was attributable
to prosecution delay, and that the prosecut cution should have
brought that case prior to that date. Cases can be
dismissed for violation of the speedy trial world. Absolutely, it
happens regularly in courtrooms across America. I wouldn't say, but

(52:16):
it's not.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Uncommon, okay, but it's not with prejudice, right, meaning double
jeopardy doesn't apply, and they could bring.

Speaker 8 (52:24):
You can't bring a case if you it's done. If
you get on a speedy trial, you cannot bring the
case and reset the clock.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
You're out.

Speaker 8 (52:34):
They didn't know that, Oh absolutely, Otherwise, what's the harm
you would think?

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Don't well, because it is out because.

Speaker 8 (52:45):
Even if you were for some reason, body, That raises
a good point. We're getting a deep dive into the speed.
Even if the case got kicked for some other reason
and you refiled it, you may still be contending with
that original arrest date. That's a believe me, it's a problem.
This is no joke. That's why you'll see the writing

(53:05):
on the front of every prosecutor's file. It's date and
speedy trial rule calculations at the top. Because here's how
it works. If July fourth is the date, and we
lose thirty days right here based on this defense request,
then August fourth becomes the new date.

Speaker 6 (53:24):
Okay, sample you just.

Speaker 8 (53:26):
Tack that month on. So it's a moving target.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Right. Let me tell you something. If I ever got arrested,
I would be like speedy trial because it seems like
it really puts the pressure on the state to buck
up and show me what you got right. It forces
their hand to be like, this is the case against you,
this is what we have, and let's go and listen.
If you're not ready, if you if the DNA hasn't

(53:51):
been tested and the autopsy's not done yet, it's not
my problem. It's not my problem.

Speaker 8 (53:56):
And that's the kind of thing that's the hope. And
again I get that strategy because the reality is everything.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
So you have a year.

Speaker 8 (54:05):
A year in the life of a prosecutor goes pretty
damn fast. I did twenty years, and it went in
the blink of an eye because it's NonStop. You're constantly
gearing up for the next case and the murder that
happens that week and doing an investigation. So I promise
you that things ground balls fly by all the time,

(54:27):
and it's like, you gotta you gotta keep your focus
on those dates and watching that that rule, speedy trial rule.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Wow, I had no idea, and neither the implication that
the implications were so big for a speedy child.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
This really was eye opening.

Speaker 8 (54:48):
Yeah, but now, body, one of the things to you
raised like if they couldn't get DNA tested or something
along those lines. Right, if we go into court and
we say to the judge, you're onor for example, COVID
was something that was out of our control, things of
that nature. If you went into court and had a
compelling reason that was not your fault, the DNA was

(55:10):
submitted in a timely manner, things of that nature, then
you would be asking a judge. Judge, this is a
legitimate request. We did not cause the delay. You may
be okay in that regard. It's not you know, there
are nuances and some common sense things. The key is

(55:30):
it can't be something that you're causing this delay and
basically dragging your feet into that corporal right.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Interesting if you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight,
and we're talking about former American Idol contestant Caleb Flynn.
He's been charged with the murder of his wife, Ashley Flynn,
and we're joined by prosecutor Jarrett Farantino, who's breaking down
some legal details. So here's a few developments I wanted
to run by you, Jared, that I'm hoping you can

(56:01):
shed some light into. So the court has approved emotion
and this came from Caleb Flynn for a jury view
of the crime scene at the couple's home, the scene
of the crime. He has also waved his right to
be present during this visit. Why would the defense agree

(56:25):
to both of those things or want both of those things?

Speaker 8 (56:28):
Well, one, is there something unique or peculiar about that
particular crime scene that both sides want the jury to see.
Jury views are somewhat common, they're not regularly carried out
in cases. But he's saying he doesn't want to be

(56:49):
there because logistically to bring him there is wild and
it's a lot you know, the transport there, all the
drama and the legiti surrounding that really makes him look
like Hannibal Lecter when they're moving him around. Now, they
wouldn't necessarily do that in front of the jury, but
if you do a jury view with someone charged with murder,

(57:11):
chances are there's drones in the sky, helicopters in the sky,
bust seeing that takes the jury there. So his defense
team may be saying, let's avoid any problem with all
of the logistics of bringing him physically back to the scene.
Or here's another thing. If you're on a jury and
you go back to the scene of a crime where

(57:32):
your wife was killed. How are you going to react?
What are they expecting out of him at that scene?
They take that out of the equation. He's not the focus.
The focus is the scene. And if he's not crying
when he goes in there, they could hold it against him.
If he's crying, they could say it's crocodile tears. Those

(57:53):
are the kind of things you're avoiding by taking him
out of that equation.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
I have one more quick question on this, if I
may so. A point of contention, and it involves the
testimony of the couple's daughter. So again, this is the
accused and his now deceased victim, his wife. The daughters
are ages nine to twelve, and the prosecution is seeking
protections such as screens or video testimony to shield them

(58:22):
from the trauma. The defense is arguing there's no proof
that the children can't testify normally, and that the measures
like that might unfairly suggest to the jury that the
children are scared of their father, the defendant, what are
your thoughts?

Speaker 8 (58:38):
Well, again, his defense team is being methodical on how
he's being perceived, and these vehicles of the court, a
video or a screen. They're worried about how's that going
to look for him, not necessarily the girl, the daughters
in the case. So I've seen that request, and there

(58:58):
are vehicles for them to figure this out. Here's how
you figure it out. You have a hearing where the
daughters are brought in not in front of the jury, okay,
and there's a discussion their question there. You could see
if they're poised able to handle being in the presence
of their father and recalling the events that they're testifying to.

(59:19):
So you can do almost like a dress rehearsal of that.
Assessing their ability to do this in court. That's one
thing that has to happen. But they're in such a
rush to get to trial, maybe they don't ask to
do that because that will cause a delay.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Right, Okay, do we first of all thank you that
was so much information.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Do we have time for a quick talkback? Let's doe it.

Speaker 9 (59:46):
Good morning, ladies. This is Sarah from Michigan. You guys
are talking about the Anna Kepner case, and I am
going to be so disappointed if that defense attorney comes
out and tries to present some scenario where they're such
relationship or something was consensual. We see it so often,
We see the victim get slandered so often, and I

(01:00:09):
just I really hope that they don't go that path.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Oh oh man, Yeah, that that's right to the bone, right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
So just to catch people up on what that talkback, Sarah,
thank you so much, was referring to. So November of
last year, there was a family vacation on a carnival
cruise ship and eighteen year old Anna Kepner, she was
found dead beneath the bed in her cabin she was
sharing with her sixteen year old step brother. The sixteen
year old stepbrother is now accused of murder and aggregated

(01:00:43):
sexual assault, which Sarah from Michigan was referring to, Yeah,
what are your thoughts on that, Jared.

Speaker 8 (01:00:50):
Well, you know, they don't have a lot of room
to work here. So remember a couple things. Defense is
not required to prove anything. They don't have to say
there was a relationship. They don't have to say they
don't have to acknowledge and there was any relationship at all.
But if they do, if they fall on that sword,

(01:01:11):
then they're gonna say, well, what are the common things?
They're gonna say it was consensual. It was mutual. The
prosecutions mischaracterizing the dynamic here. They don't have a lot
of other places to go. There's no one else in
the room. As we've described this, it's a locked room
murder mystery, right, what happened? But they have an obligation

(01:01:32):
on behalf of their client to prevent any theory, to
present any theory that's supported by evidence, challenge the prosecution's narrative,
and undermine elements like force or coercion. Wow. So as
upsetting as that is, it could happen.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
It could and we should be prepared for it just
in case. Coming up, Jarrett Farantino is going to be
sticking around to answer your questions, including ones on Diddy
and mor Anna Kepner. Keep it right here a True
Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all the time. Welcome

(01:02:14):
back to True Crime Tonight and iHeart Radio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Courtney Armstrong here with
body Move In and our beloved Stephanie is out enjoying life.
I hope you're having a great time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
But we are joined by Jarrett Farentino, Prosecutor extraordinaire, and
he is answering all our legal questions, and we're going
to start with the question from you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Let's go to a talk back.

Speaker 9 (01:02:42):
Hi.

Speaker 10 (01:02:42):
My name is Jessica and I'm calling from Wisconsin. I
had a question about what you're discussing on how there
wasn't any of.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
The domestic violence included in the p.

Speaker 10 (01:02:52):
Diddy trial, And I was thinking that possibly they didn't
include that part in the trial because he had already
said Cassie, didn't he pay her some money or something
as a settlement.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Yeah, good question and really good observation. What's the stats
on that or the information on that?

Speaker 8 (01:03:13):
Jared, Well, it's a really good question. So in a way,
anybody who followed that case knows it found its way
into the trial. The beating video of Cassie was played
for the jury. It was played more than once in
the trial. So it went to the domestic violence, went

(01:03:34):
to that coercion control and the patterns of behavior that
really served the Man Act violations and the prostitution violations.
So it did rear its head. The problem is did
he was prosecuted federally? So domestic violence, if its charged,
tends to be a state charge. It is an assault behavior,

(01:03:57):
so it would not necessarily charged in a federal case.
So and then the next part of her question, which
was also very intuitive, the fact that Diddy had settled
out of court with Cassie, there may be an agreement
that she would not testify on behalf of those charges.
Wouldn't stop the prosecution from bringing them at a state level.

(01:04:20):
But again, this is criminal court. If the das wanted
to bring them, they could bring them, and they could
compel Cassie's testimony. The bottom line is the bottom line
there is it did come in, but it was not
a criminal charge.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Right, right. So if let's so, if Cassie signed the settlement,
right and she said, I agree to this non prosecutorial
agreement or whatever it would be called, that I won't
press charges against you at the state level for these
you know, these acts of violence because you're giving me
all this money. They can still compel her to testify.

Speaker 8 (01:04:57):
They can bring her in if there were third party
witnesses or the video that can establish it that way.
So a non prosecution agreement would be done with the prosecutors,
an agreement not to press charges would be done in
the civil realm, but it would not have the teeth
that a non prosecution agreement that was done with the

(01:05:17):
prosecution would have so they can compel her testimony by
putting her in the chair. Whether or not she says
the words is another question.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Right, interesting, Well that makes so much sense. Yeah, it
really does. And what a great question.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Thank you for sending that in. I think we have
another case that has a bunch of crossover to that,
Diddy talkback. Actually, do you want to set the table up?

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
Yeah? Yeah, so Maurice Shaker and this is Tupac's step
brother and former collaborator in the groups like Outlaws and
Thug Life. He filed a wrongful death complaint related to
Tupac's murder in Los Angele Superior Court on Tuesday, the
twenty eighth of April. The two suits named two I'm sorry.

(01:06:07):
The suit names two primary targets, right, Dwayne Davis, who
is KVD and the sole suspect currently facing criminal charges
for the nineteen ninety six murder of rapper Tupac Shakor.
And the other target is John Doees one through one hundred,
and these are unnamed individuals accused of planning, financing, directing,

(01:06:32):
or carrying out the conspiracy Tupac was killed in a
dry by shooting in Las Vegas on September seventh and
nineteen ninety six, shortly after a Mike Tyson boxing match
at the MGM Grand. After decades of speculation, authorities have
charged Dwayne Davis, who goes by KVD, in twenty twenty three,

(01:06:53):
alleging the murder was an act of retaliation involving a
feud between rival gangs. Now we have all kind of
followed this case from I think the start right when
this happened. I live in Las Vegas, and fight nights
in Las Vegas are an event. It's an event, and
I mean it is a it's a moment in time.

(01:07:14):
And you know, so I was around when this happened,
and I can't speak for you guys, but I loved Tupac.
Loved Tupac, So when this happened, of course I had
immediate interest in this and it followed it since. And
I am not surprised about the charges against Kiev d criminally,
but I am surprised that they're filing a wrongful death

(01:07:35):
complaint against against him because wrongful death complaints typically, Jared,
and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it's usually
a monetary thing, right, It's there's some monetary value to
be gained from winning a wrongful death complaint? Is that correct?

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Yes?

Speaker 8 (01:07:54):
So, and that's why. So in your thought, is KVD
he's probably the brocust of everybody involved in this entire conspiracy, right,
So why are we suing KVD. He's not the target
of this lawsuit?

Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:08:10):
Ninety nine people identified as John Doe, they're your targets. So,
but you can't get to them and their conspiracy without
Keef D being named. So you name him as your
slayer and co conspirator. And so much time has gone

(01:08:31):
on in this case. Others that were involved have long
passed Orlando and all these people are long gone. But
let's not forget much information has come out in THESS
as the prosecution on KIEVD moves forward, and the Diddy
documentary that raised a lot of questions. So talk about

(01:08:53):
Tye in our last two questions together. We got Ditty
rearing his head now in this case.

Speaker 4 (01:08:59):
Right, So, he.

Speaker 8 (01:09:01):
And others in his network or corporation have a lot
of questions to answer with regard to their involvement in
Tupac Shakur's business. A dispute with him, and whether or
not anybody associated with Diddy had something to do with
killing Tupac. Okay, that's what this lawsuit is aiming. Those

(01:09:26):
are the questions this lawsuit is aiming to answer.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
You're so apt, because the complaint argues specifically that for
the first time, and I'm going to use on quotes here,
the first time in thirty years, threads are starting to
come together, and Maurice Shakor is citing two very specific
sources of information that suggest a much broader conspiracy. And
that's where those does come in. Right, So, there were

(01:09:53):
grand jury transcripts, and these are documents from civil and
criminal In this case, he's the civil defendant, but in
the criminal case against him the state of Nevada. But anyway,
Kivi d his ongoing criminal proceedings reportedly contain evidence of
involvement by people beyond those physically present in the Cadillac

(01:10:16):
during the shooting. So the grand jury transcripts have some
information in that that seems important for this complaint. And
of course, the Netflix documentary. In the December documentary, it
was called Sean Combe's The Reckoning and please watch it.
It is so good. It includes those allegations from high
level record executives claiming that Diddy was involved in the killing.

(01:10:39):
So if they can build a ladder, let's say, Jarrett,
if they can build a ladder through the does to
Ditty or someone like Ditty that has some money, that's
the target right.

Speaker 8 (01:10:51):
Right, and the money again, I don't doubt Shoukour's goal
to get to the truth here, but oh meither, the
case is in addition about in addition to getting information,
it's about recovering something for their family. So they're looking
to get to and did he denies this? I mean,
it's worth noting he certainly denies his involvement at all.

(01:11:15):
But that's where they're trying to get to.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
Now.

Speaker 8 (01:11:18):
Let's not forget Diddy is also facing a slew of
civil cases right now for a wide variety of matters.
So these guys have to get in line if they
get to Ditty, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
If you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight
and Body Moven and I are joined by Jarrett Farentino.
We are talking about a resurgence in the lawsuit. Maurice Shakur,
who is Tupac Shakur's step brother. He is filing a
wrongful death complaint relating to the nineteen ninety six murder. So, Jared,

(01:11:58):
you know, I remember discussing the documentary that's referenced in
these legal papers that Shawn Comb's the reckoning and saying,
how legally, how is this not defamation? I mean I
watched the documentary and people were flat saying, Sean, did
he Combs did this? And here's the literal back of

(01:12:20):
the envelope paperwork that went into making it happen. And
you said, you know, if it's defamation, you have to
prove it's not true. Do you think that this is
them saying take you to court prove it or what?

Speaker 8 (01:12:33):
I think there's a lot of truth to that. And
that's it. I mean, we talk about this and that's
what we said. It's it ain't defamation if it's true.
Right now, that doesn't mean did he is denying this?
He could say you're defaming me, right and he could
have filed a claim against them, but he'd have to

(01:12:53):
show essentially that what he's saying, what they're saying is
not true. In their defense, the ultimate defense to defamation
is truth. So that's the thing. One of the questions
I had when I saw this case come out, was
how does Tupac's stepbrother thirty years later have standing to

(01:13:15):
bring this case?

Speaker 4 (01:13:16):
Right?

Speaker 8 (01:13:17):
Number one, A step brother doesn't necessarily have standing. So
it turns out that Maurice is the estate representative of
Tupac's father, Matousha Court. That's how he's even involved in this.
I'm sure he loved his brother and he's his stepbrother,
but he's actually standing in place of Tupac's father in

(01:13:40):
bringing the wrongful death case which all these years later,
which was interesting to me because I couldn't I couldn't
figure it out, but I found it with.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
My So he does have standing.

Speaker 8 (01:13:51):
He does, but that's but generally he would not as
a stepbrother absent some circumstance like he's his estate representative
if he's filing it on behalf of Tupac's estate or
somebody in line or next of kin to Tupac.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
So just so I'm sorry, please, Corney, I was gonna
clarify for myself. So I could not raise a lawsuit,
if you know, may God forbid it. One of my
best friends and I just thought justice is not being served.
I could not bring forth a lawsuit civilly is that right.

Speaker 8 (01:14:25):
No, you would have to be someone a direct descendant
of that person, like a child or a parent, if
if there was a child that was a minor, things
of that nature, so you need that. Or if your
best friend made you their estate representative, you can bring
the wrong for death action, essentially standing in the shoes

(01:14:47):
of your best friend.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
Good to know, Good to know. So, this lawsuit asserts
that the you know, Tupac's murder was more than just
a retaliatory you know, gang conflict, and it was in fact,
like much you know, far more complex conspiracy and previous
theories in Tupac's murder. It really focused on Orlando add
and Anderson. Orlando Anderson, I can't say that, who was

(01:15:12):
sued by Tupac's mother in nineteen ninety seven, right before
his death in nineteen ninety eight. This lawsuit seeks to
hold accountable those who have managed to avoid justice for
three decades, with the step brother again Maurice Shakor stating
this action seeks to change that the stepbrother, Maurice he

(01:15:34):
is the filing as the administrator of the estate of
Mutulu Shakur, who was tupac stepfather, who died in twenty
twenty three, So yeah, they're really Maurice is basically saying,
I'm going to hold their feet to the fire. They've
gotten away with it for thirty years. This is his allegation,
not mine. You know, they've gotten away with it for

(01:15:57):
thirty years, and I'm going to hold their feet to
the fire. I'm going to file this lawsuit. We're going
to climb the ladder of the does to get to
the person who ordered this to happen, and they're going
to pay and listen, I'm here for it. Why isn't
did he named in this?

Speaker 8 (01:16:15):
Because well, that's because they're going to use the fact
that a dough is named to conduct all this discovery
to identify the dough and he's the target of it,
or he and his circle are the targets of it.
But to out and out name someone like that, you

(01:16:35):
have to put forth certain evidence he may not have
at this point. So they're going to work initially to
fill in that blank with whomever they believe it is,
with pre trial discovery, you know, which is interrogatory's requests
for production of documents, bringing people in and taking their depositions,
building that case. Ultimately toward Didty, likely toward Didty and his.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
Associates with the criminal case against Dwayne keef d. Will
they use the discovery that's being handled in Evata Court
right now where they do their own discovery.

Speaker 8 (01:17:10):
They'll do both. They'll be able to get their hands
on a lot of what comes out of the criminal case.
But Sybil has different means of getting discovery too. And
by the way, they're not answerable to the police at
that point. They're in the driver's seat a little than
the DA case.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
That's right, well, buckle up in that driver's seat. This
is going to be something to see. Jarrett, thank you
so much. You really I gleaned so much from tonight.
We always do, but tonight particularly you got the Sunday sauce.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
I guess so.

Speaker 11 (01:17:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
We thank you very much, and we are anyone who
wants more of Attorney Jarrett Farantino.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Everybody does follow him on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
He is at Jarrett Farentino and his book Mother's Murders
and Motivation is available on Amazon. It's fabulous True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Welcome back to Crentz Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
We're on iHeartRadio and we are talking true crime all
the time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
I'm here with my body Boo and we are joined
by producer Taha and Sam and Adam running all things
in the control room. We'd love to hear from you,
and so we would like to take these few minutes
to do just that and grab some of your talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Let's go to one.

Speaker 12 (01:18:36):
Hey girl, I'm listening to all the David stuff. I
right google him because I was curious throughout his backgrounds,
and he was homeschooled and very Christian, seemed to have
a really good upbringing, and so leus running away from home.
I'm not trying to defend anybody, but I used to

(01:18:57):
be a teacher, and I just think that kids are
so different. There are so many lost souls out there
just doing hainless things. But I think a conversation would
be great. You know, we talk about gun violence and
how we can fix that on a whole, and I
think instead of just hating David and slamming him, maybe

(01:19:18):
try to also understand where he was coming and what
he was lacking. I mean, certainly what he did is unexcusable,
but there was obviously mental health issues I think on
both of their part, and it's just a tragic story.
Love you girls and guys by.

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
Yeah, it is a very tragic story. I definitely agree,
And yeah, understanding, understanding. You know, this kind of moment, right,
this moment of you know, desperation, I think is what
I would describe the moment as it's being alleged that
you know, they had this sexual relationship for quite some time.

(01:20:01):
You know, Celestevas Hernandez was fourteen years old and David
is twenty one. He's an adult, and this relationship started
when you know, she was twelve or eleven, let's say,
and he was nineteen eighteen, nineteen, and so you know
what I what I kind of think about is the
moment of desperation that David must have felt when Celeste

(01:20:24):
was basically threatening to expose this I'm using air quotes relationship.
It obviously could not have been relationships. Lest was not
of the age of consent, so it was some sort
of coercive relationship. Anyway, So I'm thinking about the moment
of desperation. You know, he's on the verge of superstardom.

(01:20:46):
His album Withered was being released in two days, his
ticket sales for his world tour was being announced one day,
and he's literally on the verge. He just finished Coachella. Imagine,
he's twenty one years old. He's been homeschooled. To our
talkbacks point, he's been homeschooled, and you know, he started

(01:21:09):
making music for his fortnight game. And you know, he's
kind of like a home guy. He's kind of like
a homebody by all accounts, a wonderful and lovely family.
What could have driven him to do this? And I
kind of just think desperation. I don't know what else,
what else, what else to think about it? Because you're right,

(01:21:30):
it was an actually wonderful upbringing, right.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
And the pressures and money and fame and the pursuit
of those and what that can do to somebody. And
it's so complicated. I think your point is very well taken,
and I do too. It's a well taken point. It's
very complicated. There's no sunshine and roses for really anyone
involved in any of these situations, and it's worth considering

(01:21:58):
all aspects.

Speaker 7 (01:22:00):
I was going to add, though, I mean, I wonder
if there's a world where not that I'm explaining any
of the logical what he did, but he's a little
bit more desensitized. It seems like a lot of his
music videos had this dark and morbid kind of undertone.
You know, clearly all of this is there's there's some
deeper issues that need to be resolved. But I wonder

(01:22:21):
if maybe he's you know, it's it's you know, he
looks at things in a different way because of this
sort of morbid darkness that has surround some of the
music and things that he's written. But yeah, like in
many of the cases we've covered, I would love to
study people to understand so that it doesn't happen again.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Downright, And I'm just not educated enough in the psyche
right to like have like a super intelligent conversation about it.
But you know, his imagery in his music videos and
his albums and whatnot was very like kind of morbid, right.
There was like blood spatter on his shirts and you know,

(01:23:01):
coffins on the stage, and he in one of his
music videos, I believe he's even putting a woman, a
woman who arguably looks like Celeste, into the trunk of
a car.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Correctly, Yeah, because yeah, we talked about that, and that
was when you know, some of us thought this guy
has to be being framed because he possibly.

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
I mean one of his number one of his hits
is called Romantic Homicide, and he's talking about how he
killed he killed, so he killed you and doesn't even
feel it or doesn't feel bad about it. You know,
there's there's just a lot of morbid energy tah, right like,
just like that runs through his artistry and this I like. Listen,

(01:23:47):
I'm a huge like Smith's fan depeche Mo. Sure, I
love like darker kind of music, you know, I love
all that stuff, But my psyche is not one that's
like I'm going to kill somebody.

Speaker 7 (01:24:00):
Never in a million years I would have offered her
tons of money or going that route, like listen, this
will be don't say anything, I'll pay.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
You, I'll give you rights. I don't know, but I
just feel like, you know, if this comes out, I'm
going to be I'm gonna I'm gonna lose this potential stardom.
That's like literally I can taste it, right, you can
taste the stardom that I'm about to experience. And then

(01:24:28):
this little girl is threatening it all. And I'm using
maybe what he was thinking, you know, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 7 (01:24:34):
Know, Yeah, I thought that I was just going to
say I was so fascinated, when Steve Fisher said, because
I didn't realize how tiny David was until he described it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:44):
And that does make me look, yeah at him just
a little.

Speaker 7 (01:24:48):
Different, Like I mean, maybe he felt more comfortable with
the I don't know. I'm not trying to explain his
logical thing with someone small and younger and everything else.
But I'm just trying to wrap my head around anything
to make some sense of it, which, as I'm saying
it out loud, it feels ridiculous to even try.

Speaker 6 (01:25:02):
But I was just fascinated how tiny and small he was.
Did you guys know he was a little man a
little bit?

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
Because we had talked about how could he have done
this alone?

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
He sees so little. We had talked about that, but
and I think I even brought up that, you know,
Luca Magnatta, who dismembered John Lynn on video, was very
small and he did it right. Definitely can happen, like
your adrenaline can make you do in like crazy things.
I don't know that. I don't know that he did alone.

(01:25:33):
I'm not saying he didn't or that he did. I
have no idea. I'm just saying his size really shouldn't
come into play when when talking about it, because I
think it's kind of irrelevant.

Speaker 6 (01:25:43):
Yeah, good point, you're right.

Speaker 7 (01:25:44):
Yeah, Okay, Well, on that note, let's go to another
talk back because we've got quite a few tonight.

Speaker 11 (01:25:50):
Let's do you team, what do you think is maybe
Brian Hooker lawyer suggested that he comes home and takes
of his elderly mom to make him look more like
a sympathetic character.

Speaker 4 (01:26:05):
Love to get your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
I ooh, interesting, I think that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
I think that's so interesting. And I think that certainly
or what we understand his attorney is providing, because there's
no court case lined up, so really it's a sort
of court of public opinion. And if there is anything
that's going to give any rationalization to leaving your wife

(01:26:36):
lost in the Bohemian waters her body not found would
be a sick mother.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
And I don't think anything else. So that's my two cents. No,
I think I think it's a really astute observation. Yeah,
because you're right, Courtney, there is no court case, there's
no pending there's no pending charges that we know about,
there's no trial date set. He's not been accused of anything.

(01:27:03):
And so his lawyer is basically running interference for him.
Is it possible that she said? He said, listen, I
got to get out of here. What do I do?
And she was like, telling your mom sick? Is it?
Is it possible? Maybe? Yeah? I don't know. Great talk
back though, and she's a really good idea.

Speaker 6 (01:27:20):
Yeah, it makes him look sympathetic.

Speaker 7 (01:27:21):
But on the flip side, not coming back then makes
him look not so great to take.

Speaker 3 (01:27:27):
And they still had found her that Booker is still missing.
She is still missing and he has not gone down
there back. You know, it makes.

Speaker 7 (01:27:38):
Us Yeah, all the sympathy goes out the window after
a certain time of being with your mom.

Speaker 6 (01:27:44):
But that's just me. My opinions different.

Speaker 7 (01:27:46):
But speaking of opinions, I see if some other people
have some opinions on other topics.

Speaker 6 (01:27:50):
Tonight.

Speaker 13 (01:27:51):
All right, Hi Tree Crime tonight. This is Andy from Minnesota,
and I was just listening to the episode where body
was talking about switching from Clareton to a Legra. My
allergists recently switched me to Allegra. And he said that
Benadryl and Clareton they go past the bud brain barrier
and are thought to be causing dementia and that Allegra

(01:28:11):
does not cross the blood brain barrier, and he suggested
it to help my allergies.

Speaker 3 (01:28:16):
I hope that helps.

Speaker 13 (01:28:17):
It might be at least worth talking to your doctor
about to find out if that's a good idea for you,
or if you have any concerns about dementia and benadryl.
I love everything you guys do. Thank you so much.
Have a good night, Andy.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
I didn't know. Wow, Andy, so Clearton, Okay, So yeah,
my allergies have been are you going to take a
day off? My eyes were crusty, I can't stop sneezing.
I keep having to go on mute on the show
and call off, and it's just been just really brutal.
And the other night we all came on the show
and we all looked the eyes were swollen shut like

(01:28:56):
it was disgusting. We were hideous, and we were all
laughing about how close we looked. But it becomes some allergies.
And so I had mentioned two days two days later,
three days later whatever, I switched from Clareton to Allegra,
and I sounded, look how full of energy I am
right now? And prior I was like, hey, guys, now,

(01:29:20):
I'm like, let's go, let's do this. You know, well,
I switched to Allegra, and I had mentioned that on
the show, like I had switched to Allegra, you know, like,
what do you guys take for your energies? Give us
a call? Yeah wow, So Clareton breaks that blood. Maybe
that's what was wrong with me. Maybe they maybe I
was getting because I won't listen. I wasn't a fog.
I'm not even kidding. I was one hundred percent in

(01:29:43):
a fog mentally at like my day job. I'm like,
what am I doing again? Like, and I'm never that way.

Speaker 7 (01:29:51):
Yeah, but you had always been taking that one particular
kind like I mentioned a friend.

Speaker 6 (01:29:56):
Off the cuff. It's like, obviously you're supposed to switch
them up. I' what do you mean obviously? I never
knew that. This is the first time I've ever heard
that in my life, so I do not know.

Speaker 7 (01:30:06):
Yeah, new info and like suffering even tonight, I saw
we were sneezing a bit where all I was yeah,
allergy fits.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
I mean it's it's it's like I would say, ninety
five percent better than it was. Okay, okay, but yeah,
I'm and Andy like like Andy said, you know, please
check with your doctor. Andy the talkback, please check with
your doctor before you make any you know, medication changes
and whatnot. I mean I didn't, but I'm not giving

(01:30:35):
you medical advice.

Speaker 7 (01:30:36):
Okay, yeah, well we'll make sure we're not doctors here,
but yeah, our experts in other areas.

Speaker 6 (01:30:42):
But that's not worth definitely not.

Speaker 7 (01:30:45):
But it was definitely something that our audience everyone was
calling in with. Clearly everyone suffering from allergies at the
time of year. But I think there was another one
that came through. Adam may have ready for us on
the alogy topic.

Speaker 3 (01:30:57):
Hi friends, my doctor has always told me to never
stick to one allergy medication. I take one pill every day,
and I go back and forth. So I do cleraiton
and I do zizo. So I'll finish one bottle of
wine and go to the next. Okay from South Carolina.

(01:31:23):
So she takes a whole bottle of something and then
switches what was the other one's saisol? What is that that?

Speaker 6 (01:31:33):
Yeah, I don't know that one huh after look into
what is but I like the general idea.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
That's a really good idea, and maybe I'll do that
because listen, I'm not here to dog Clareton. I loved
Clareton for many years. But maybe I just thought maybe
I built up like an immunity or something to it.
You know, I bet we all do, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
And maybe that's why I Her doctor suggested to her
to switch up, and I that was also actually what
helped me was switch from one to the next because
it just wasn't working.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
And interesting jump started me, do you know what I mean?
Like I got a little I got a little jump
jumper cable attached to me, and it like.

Speaker 7 (01:32:11):
There, you just start it, you know what I started.
I allowed to do that with fragrances because I mix
them often because I think I become a mute. Well,
I use one for a while, then I'll go to
something else because I think I get so like I
don't know how much I'm putting on because I've got
so accustomed to it, so I need to switch it up.

Speaker 6 (01:32:31):
But there's a little fun fact about taha.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
But what's your favorite? TAA?

Speaker 6 (01:32:36):
What's your favorite?

Speaker 7 (01:32:37):
I'm in a Birado mode right now. By Raido's a
line that carries a lot of different ones, and there's
one that's called Gosh. They have a variety of them,
but they all smell amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
So I kind of recommend how many times so we
are looking at each other, you know, through a screen
right now, and how many times Taha, they said, you
look like you smell so good right now?

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
Always looks like he smell.

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
Does that's the funniest thing.

Speaker 7 (01:33:05):
Well, maybe I'm sharing too much, but I take a
hot shower before every show, and I sprints a little
even though I'm working myself listening to this.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
So Tamaha was telling us about Coachella like a long
time ago, and he was like, I was walking around.
Everybody smelts, but I was squitsing. I was spritzing clone
at everybody. I was like him little walking around Coachella
escort and everybody with coach awful.

Speaker 6 (01:33:27):
I've embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
I said that out right, you guys, I'm so happy
we got to spend this Sunday together.

Speaker 6 (01:33:35):
Great.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
Yeah, and tomorrow there's a whole bunch of new information
on the Anna Koepner case and a North Carolina woman
is accused of poisoning her family. It's complicated. So join
us tomorrow and have a beautiful Sunday and start to
your week.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
Bye everyone, good name

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