Jurors Deadlocked on One Charge in Diddy Trial, Idaho Firefighter Ambush Suspect Identified, and Kohberger’s Bombshell Court Move

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Tuesday, July first, and what
a night it has been. We have a stack night
of headlines for you tonight.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Diddy verdict is happening real time. These deliberations have been
harrowing and we have so much to report on that.
And also the Brian Coberger Idaho college murders update. The
family members of the victims are speaking out. Some of
them are so mad about this new development. Big hearing tomorrow.
We're following that so so closely. Matthew Russell Lee from

(00:53):
Inner City Press, he's here because he's been inside the courtroom.
He's going to be telling us everything that's happening in
the Diddy trial because he was there today as always.
I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head of KAT Studios, where
we make true crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get
to do that with Body Movin and Courtney Armstrong. I
don't even know where to begin with this Diddy stuff.

(01:15):
So body, what should we jump through first? Is he
going to get off?

Speaker 4 (01:19):
You know this stuff yesterday, yesterday when we were or
not yesterday, but the day before. I don't even know
what data is.

Speaker 5 (01:24):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
There's been so many things happening. When we were talking
about this last I said, oh no, I think he's
going to be found guilty, But now I'm not so sure.
So here's what's happened today. The jurors have informed the
judge that they've reached a verdict on counts two through five,
but they're hung They're undecided on one. Okay, so what
does that mean? Count one is the Rico charge. Okay,

(01:47):
so they're they're hung up on the Rico charge. And
I remember Rico was created in the early nineteen seventies
to go after the mafia, and it basically says that
in this instance, that Diddy is running a criminal enterprise,
and that under this criminal enterprise they've done kidnapping and

(02:07):
arson and witness tampering and all kinds of terrible things.
And in order to be guilty of Rico, they have
to find him guilty of two of those predicate acts.
And we're gonna go through those. Yeah, so confusing, it is,
no I and I get it. It's totally confusing. Now,
they did find a verdict and counts two through five,

(02:30):
and counts two through five are the sex trafficking of Cassie,
the transportation of Cassie, the sex trafficking of Jane, and
the transportation of Jane. So on those four counts, counts
two through five, they got a verdict.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
We don't know what it is though, that just stop
right there for one second. What do you both think?
It is guilty? Not guilty? I think not guilty on
that one too.

Speaker 6 (02:56):
Here's my thought, which is my thought, is that they're
guilty on those four. However, here is where I think
the personal versus this sort of more conspiratal or umbrella
of the rico comes in. So maybe it's like, yes,
did he the person got Jane, He whatever you know,

(03:18):
abused or manipulated and coerced them to sex like sex
traffick themselves. But that an enterprise was not was not happening,
that it was just between the two of them, As
the defense said, you know what, the greatest love story
of all time or something like that.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
So love the story of all time.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
What Oh yeah, yeah, but no, that's what I think
you might be right, court, because I was thinking it
more of like if they found him not guilty on
those counts two through five, then it would be super
easy to you know, find him not guilty of rico,
right because counts two through five are also kind of
included in the rico charge. So I was thinking not guilty,

(03:57):
But you might be right. I didn't think about that.

Speaker 6 (04:00):
Because also there was the defense in their cross did
a really I thought, great job of what we had called,
you know, cherry picking texts over many many years, and
some of the texts had did he saying, no, we
can't have now it's escaping.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Me his K staff Christy mccorum.

Speaker 6 (04:17):
We can't have KK know about this, like it's between
you and me. So that's where I that's where I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Says every wild abuser, you know, just throwing out there.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
This is not my personal opinion.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I don't know the answer here, but this is the
chatter you bring up KK, which is Ditty's chief of staff.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
She basically runs.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
She used to be in a you know, executive at
bad Boy Records, and then she basically became the chief
of staff of Sean Combe's enterprise. And we've all been curious,
why hasn't she testified, Why hasn't she been brought forward?

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Let me ask you this.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
It seems as though so many of the women in
his life were also coerced and abused and manipulated. Is
it possible he had texts saying I don't want KK
to know this because there was a relationship between them.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Oh, a second relationship between them. I listen again, putting.

Speaker 6 (05:05):
It out there.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
I mean maybe, but doesn't she know everything that's going on?
I mean, how would she not know that he was
doing this with other women?

Speaker 2 (05:13):
How does any woman not know what their man is
doing that? Jane was aware and was you know, said
she was jealous of it. So you can still be
in love with someone you know is doing bad. I mean,
I'll raise my hand to that. I'll raise my hands
in my life.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
So I don't know.

Speaker 6 (05:29):
I mean, that's totally unsubstantiated, but really interesting, certainly good.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, and remember it's a bubble, right, So you know,
I used to make reality TV shows back in the day,
and people are always asking, oh, you can't fall in
love on the Bachelor. We can't do that on Temptation Island.
I don't know when you're kind of in this bubble
and everybody around you is speaking this same language and
they all have the same rules and the same vibes.
And again I'm making a comparison to a reality show.

(05:55):
But listen, people fall in love because we're talking about
love exclusively twenty four hours a day for thirty days.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
My point.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
In diddy Land, it's abusive. There's guns, there's drugs, there's money,
there's affluence, there's fame, there's promise of a big future
that can become you know, brainwashing, like you know, everyone
starts drinking the same kool aid.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Is that possible? Oh, certainly.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
Well, so when the jury is told the judge you know, hey, listen,
we're not coming to a consensus on count one, which
is the rico charge. He told them, I received your
note that you have reached verdicts on counts two through five,
but not on count one. I ask at this time
that you keep deliberating. And this was like at four

(06:38):
thirty or something. It was really late in the day.
So they tried again for another half an hour, didn't
come to a consensus, and the judge said at that time,
it's five o'clock. Go home, come back tomorrow at nine am.
Go right to the delivery or the delivery the jury
deliberation room. So they're supposed to be right back at
it tomorrow and maybe we'll get something.

Speaker 6 (07:00):
And do we know if the judge specifically said goes
straight into deliberations. Is that just save time or.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
I believe it's to save time. And you know, Matthew
Russell Lee from Inner City Press is going to be
on in the next segment, and I want to ask
him if the judge issued an allen charge and what
that is. It's like a formal request from a judge
or order from a judge to keep deliberating. So I

(07:26):
want to ask him when he gets here. But I
do believe that he told them to go straight to
the jury room.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
And not an interesting point too, because the theory that
the judge that Lisa is saying, or at least the
jury had said today, is that they're just at this
lock on, this rico thing, that they were kind of
at this square off, that they weren't really going to
get to a place of success before the holiday.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Remember, and now holiday is coming.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
Now that I've heard what Courtney has said about like
what her thoughts were on the verdict.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
I kind of want to change my Can I change
it is? Yeah, you can change it.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
I think I think Courtney might be right. I think
that they might have found him guilty on count two
through five, but that juror, you know, is maybe, you know,
considering that he might not be guilty of this enterprise thing,
and maybe he's the holdout on the rico charge.

Speaker 7 (08:14):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know the chatter was too that Diddy, who has
you know, seemed very confident in the last few days,
and you know we've talked about this quite a bit
on previous episodes. You know, he didn't seem so confident today.
I mean it sounded as though his head was in
his hands and this was unexpected and listen, probably a
very harrowing night for him.

Speaker 6 (08:35):
I bet this is true crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm
Courtney Armstrong here as always with Body Moven and Stephanie Leidecker.
We're talking about the Diddy jury and the partial verdict
that has been that has been submitted. We want to
hear your thoughts. We're at eight to eight three one
Crime Or you can always go to the iHeartRadio app,
click on the red microphone. It's in the upper right hand.

(08:57):
Leave us a message, and you're on the show. I
wanted to actually circle back to something we were talking
about yesterday when this first began. So if you recalled,
there was a drug question. It was one of the
notes that the jurors passed, and the question was, if
a recipient wants, requests or ask for controlled substances and

(09:18):
an individual hands over that controlled substance to the request,
has the individual who hands over that substance does that
mean distribution, which we didn't know the answer to, and
the judge said they would answer today, and the answer
is in what was this? So the wording was distribution
means actual, constructive, or attempted transfer. Distributing simply means to deliver,

(09:42):
to pass on, or to hand something to another person,
or to cause it to be passed on. Distribution does
not require a sale. So that's interesting to me.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
So it's illegal to distribute drugs.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
If you have drugs and somebody wants those drugs, it's
still illegal to give that right wow.

Speaker 6 (10:01):
So well, and also it means that monies do not
need to change hands because that's perhaps in the back
of their brain, which is in the back.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
The key word there is cause somebody, right, and Diddy
would be the cause. He's the one who purchased it, right,
Is he the cause of that distribution?

Speaker 2 (10:18):
And is there a big distinction between personal use and distribution?
I guess all of our brains are going to the masses,
right that.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
I'm thinking the cowboys, you know, exactly. But but it
necessarily doesn't need to be that. You know, it doesn't
need to be the guys in the count room with
the naked girls counting the money and you know, putting.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
The cocaine in the bags. It doesn't need to be
all that.

Speaker 6 (10:40):
Are we Are we in a mob Vegas movie?

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yes, I am.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
I'm just glad we're not Diddy in this movie. But
this is like a scary movie because listen, we saw
this with the Karen Reid trial. For anyone who's been
paying attention to Karen Reid retrial that was just several
weeks ago, had this stunning development at the first trial
and then the second pins and needles. I was assuming
at this point we would all feel a little bit
more confident that it was a slam dunk or a

(11:08):
total walk free. But it seems still really confusing. This
could go any way at this point, and nobody really
does seem to have a full picture. You know, obviously
we have an insider with us, but still, I mean,
I think it seemed as though, at least we were
speculating that did he seemed like he was a smooth
operator in these last few weeks. By the way, did

(11:30):
you guys see that video of Gina the victim number three?

Speaker 8 (11:34):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (11:34):
I did.

Speaker 7 (11:34):
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it either, I
didn't see it. Yeah, First of all, she's such a beauty,
she's gorneous. There's been so much speculation about where she's been.
She was due to testify, then suddenly she was like, no,
nobody's talking here. And then today somebody had picked up
an interview with her. I think it was TMZ where
they were like, look, are you afraid for your safety

(11:55):
if Diddy gets off?

Speaker 3 (11:56):
And she was like, h no, I'm not so so
worried about it.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Meanwhile, in other documents, it was claimed that he was
beating her to the point that she almost aborted a
baby because he was kicking her so much. So listen
what does that imply to the online chatter I don't know,
or people being people being bought? Can you know, jurors
be tampered with?

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
You know, this is that final, final moment, and racketeering
kind of implies all of those scary things.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
It does, you know.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
He after when the judge was reading the note to
from the jury, Diddy look back at his mom and
whatnot and he said, I'll be all right, I love you.

Speaker 6 (12:38):
M mmmmmm.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
He's got a real way with the ladies. Yeah, you
know what.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
That is what bothers me so much, even just his
daughter's being there and this, you know, father is being
put away. He's been abusing women at the bare minimum,
And I want to shout that from the rooftops because yeah,
he might walk away and maybe this has just been
a big waste of all our time. But really, just
say to put the genie back in the bottom.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
It's horrible when the bare minimum is that he's beating women.
That's a bad person.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, that's fair. Coming up. Brian Kohlberger's family responded to
the shocking plea deal. We will have more on the
latest with the Diddy trial. Matthew Russell Lee of Inner
City Press, who has been at the trial from day one,
is here to break all of it down. Do not
forget join our conversation. It is your conversation. We are
at eight to day through on Crime, Keep it here,

(13:25):
True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
What a day it has been in the headlines yet
again Diddy he's facing the music real time. The jury
is deliberating, and it has been a wildly confusing day.
And then again the Brian Coburger trial that will not
be in the Idaho College murders. He's doing court tomorrow,
huge hearing because all of the families of the victims
and of his will all be in Boise, Idaho, and

(14:02):
that is guaranteed to be explosive. We'll be following that
very closely. This Diddy trial has got me shook, and
it does feel like at this point there's no real
cut and dry answer. And thankfully we have journalists Matthew
Russell Lee from Inner City Press back with us. He's
been in the courtroom and you know, listen, Matthew, what

(14:23):
has the vibe been like there today? I know Diddy's
family was there and we're told he was a little tense.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 5 (14:31):
I would say more than tens. I was really I
was pretty surprised. I mean, the first thing to say
about the status where we're at is that no one
can tell you with certainty that they know what the
four verdicts that have been reached are because they send
out a note that they've reached four verdicts, but they
cannot reach it their unpersuadable opinions on both sides on
the first count. So almost everybody is saying this, and

(14:53):
by the way that Shawan Combs reacted, he thinks that
he's been convicted on the other four or at least
some of them, because they handed him a note and
then they could. They surrounded him and talked to him
as various lawyers, and he literally looked catatonic. That's the
way I would describe it. He stared straight ahead, then
he looked at the ground. Then he sort of he
literally like his lawyers were doing all this talking around him,

(15:15):
very kind of in a frenzy of how to respond
because they had to decide what they would suggest to
the judge, how to respond to the to the jury's note.
But he really wasn't whereas earlier in the trial, he
was like very chipper and like participating with his lawyers
and calling them over and writing things down. He was
just like staring at the ground. So when you look
at it logically, it seems pretty clear that that and

(15:39):
maybe he's interpreted that as well, that these verdicts that
have been reached but not announced are guilty use otherwise
they otherwise they would be saying, you know, if he
were not guilty of sex trafficking and of transportation for prostitution,
that Rico wouldn't relieve it be on the table. And
from the questions that they asked so far in the
so far in the two days of deliberation, they asked

(16:00):
questions about drug distribution. And then today they asked for
testimony all about Cassie and and you know Cassie and
the intercontent in a hotel Cassie and and coming back
from the film festival at Cohn when he showed her
videotapes of herself and said, you know, if you don't
buckle under, I'm going to release them. And then she
engaged in a freak off and a final This is

(16:20):
the last day, a final, a freak off in which
the male escort or entertainer Daniel Phillips testified that he
saw Comb's or heard Combs hit her. So it seemed
like the jury was really zeroing in on sex trafficking
by force or coercion. And and they've apparently reached a decision,
and it looks to me like they assume that it's guilty.

(16:43):
But we'll find out. Well, if not tomorrow, then on
July third or on Monday. It really depends when they
either decide to rule on count one or say that
they can't reach rule on count one, and when the
judge either pulls the plug or tells them to continue.
Sorry for the long answer, but now I agree.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
You literally like gut punched. I feel honestly that was
like very emotional. I'm a little bit like covered in
chills right now just hearing it that way, because.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
You're right, they did. They ask for the information back.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
The transcripts of Cassie Ventura, that's his ex girlfriend, also
considered victim number one his her testimony, and that does
show he was paying people off.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
He was clearly beating her up.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
There was obviously a machine around her that she could
not easily get out of.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (17:28):
Wow, I think it was I think the only good
part for him is that and I was thinking of
this before. You know, they didn't ad they have thus
far before saying that they've reached verdicts. And you know,
the four of the verdicts are just about Cassie and Jane.
I don't I don't mean just and then they be
dismissed it, but they are. They're not conspiracy counts. There
are sex trafficking and you know, transportation for purposes of prostitution.

(17:53):
Two and three are with regard to Cassie, and three
and four and five are with regard to Jane. Now,
they didn't ask any question about Jane so far, and
yet they've reached a verdict on four and five. If
you were if you were a pro Diddy person, which
you know there are some, of course, you might think
that they they you might think that they weren't convinced
by Jane's testimony, but I don't know, you know, again

(18:14):
what then then then it's it's really we're in a
very strange I actually thought we're in a very strange time.
I don't like to talk about things that I can't
say are the case. And what we can say now
is that they say that there's four verdicts have been
reached and one hasn't, and we don't know what those
far are. We can surmise, but we can't say, right.

Speaker 6 (18:31):
Matthew, can I ask did the defense have any what
was their vibe? For lack of better word, but for
all of us, all of us who are not in
the courtroom, what was that like?

Speaker 5 (18:42):
I think they seemed a little yeah, in response to
this this, this, this four pm bombshell today, they were
really kind of they were scurrying around. I mean, he
has he literally I used to say it was ten.
There may have been. There was one who came in
and just did one thing and left. All eight of
his lawyers were there today and they were They were
very much conferring. And I don't want to say that
they look they're all professionals, so they're not going to,

(19:04):
you know, lose their cool. Sure, but I think they
were concerned that that the prosecution wanted the judge to
give what called an Allen charge or a modified Allen charge,
which is basically telling the jurors, you say, you can't
reach a decision, but no future jury is going to
be better positioned than you are to reach this, so
it'll just be a big waste of time, do everything

(19:25):
you can possibly without giving up your own individual integrity
and opinions to reach a verdict.

Speaker 6 (19:31):
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
I was going to ask you about the Allen charge.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Yeah, yeah, Usually defense doesn't want that because they right,
it's felt, but the courts have always upheld these allen
charges honestly, but it's felt that it sort of strong
arms the jury to come up with a guilty verdict,
because usually in cases where they can't reach a verdict,
it's usually not six six, it's usually like ten to
two or eleven to one. I don't know what it
is here. I think the only thing that people there

(19:56):
was this. The other thing that happened yesterday was that
they came out very quick and said that one of
the jurors was not able to or was not following
the judges instructions. That was very weird. Juror his initial
number was twenty five, and I do remember when he
was questioned during Bardir. I don't really know how much
we should say about him, except to say that they

(20:16):
came out like after an hour or less than two
hours of deliberation with a note saying jury twenty five
is not following the rules. So this leads me to
believe that the person announced their opinion like very early,
before they'd had any discussion. What you're always told is
the juror is, even if you keep an open mind,
and even if your mind is maybe not open, don't

(20:37):
announce your opinion until like everyone's spoken around the table,
you know, right.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
And we are lucky enough to be joined by journalist
Matthew Russell Lee of Inner City Press. You can find
him on x at Inner City Press. We've been hearing
all the insider juice about what's been going on in
the Diddy court room. If you want to weigh in,
give us a call at eight eight eight thirty one
Crime or on the talkbacks on the IRT radio app.
Really quick, I just kind of wanted to tell everybody

(21:03):
what an Allen charges. It's a supplemental jury instruction used
in legal cases where a jury is deadlocked and not
able to reach a verdict. And as we noted earlier,
the jury said that they what was the term they used.

Speaker 5 (21:16):
On they are unpersuadable AI.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
Yes, So basically the jurors are not changing their their minds,
they're not being persuaded. So the judge will say, you know,
please go back and deliberate more. It doesn't require that
anybody changed their verdict or anything like that, or their vote,
but it does encourage the conversation.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
So that's what I get.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
Well, I can imagine, I mean, because people have been saying,
like so they were basically they were let go for
the day. Maybe it's good for the defense in the
sense that these verdicts weren't taken right they announced that
they have for verdicts, but everyone was very careful not
that that no one say what the verdicts are, because
then this would sort of like finalize it and they hey,
you have a mistrial on Rico. I think the government
really wants to get all five convictions. That's why they

(22:02):
want to go forward.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Of course, the.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
Question is tomorrow. On the one extreme, maybe somebody that
initially had decided on on on guilty on one on
the on the four that they've decided on changes their
mind overnight. They've certainly be entitled to do that. Nothing
binds them. On the other hand, so they come in tomorrow,
they they've said it's unpersuadable. But if they've been told
to deliberate, so I can imagine them asking so far

(22:27):
they've only asked for information about drug distribution. That was
on the first day, and that that that he's not
charged with drug distribution. Drug distribution is one of the
predicates for the the react Hearing enterprise. There are other ones.
There is arson, there is kidnapping. I could imagine, I think, yeah, exactly,
I think an extruction of justice. You could imagine whoever,

(22:49):
those in favor of a guilty plea if there's two
sides obviously there even they've said that their opinions on
both sides, those who think he's guilty, asking let's show
you to get some more evidence in here, right, or
those who think he's not killed. What could they say?
I think like they could say if you, if you,
I don't like, they could say that they haven't proven
the arson one. I think that's that's probably one that

(23:12):
that they haven't really proven. Honestly, they don't sure. There's
a lot of there's a lot of speculation. He said
he would do it, it did happen, but linked him
absolute and I don't know how actually he couldn't be
convicted of that one. Because here's how he could not
be convicted. There's no question that he offered cash to
get the tape of beating up Cassie. Their defense is,

(23:36):
and maybe somebody on the jury believes this, that he
didn't buy the tape to avoid a criminal prosecution or
a government investigation, but only in order to protect his reputation,
and that's not illegal, like right, Like my understanding of
Hollywood is people pay money to make things go away
all the time. It's only illegal if you're making a
criminal case go away or a criminal investigation go away.

(23:56):
But if you're buying if there was a photograph that
made you look ugly and you paid money, it's not
a crime.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
As the elevator, though I know this is not your opinion,
I guess think it's so bothered by the fact that
he was so callous and we know what abuse these
women have been put through. It's unbelievable to me that
that's like something that he could walk home from.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
You ware, I mean, and you probably won't. I mean,
he was able to play it off and even put
Cassie on the phone. This is how this is where
Cassie was at that time. She said she didn't want
the tape coming out, that she had a movie coming out,
that it would just this was a very toxic relationship,
and so they were able. I'm not saying that that's right.
I'm saying I could imagine a juror saying, no, I

(24:38):
don't buy it that that substruction of justice. Didn't you
hear the testimony? So this is the kind of thing
they could ask for tomorrow tomorrow, right, they could ask
for the specific testimony about what did Cassie say that,
for example, Eddie Garcia, Eddie my angel heard to make
him believe that he wasn't breaking the law, you know,
in giving the tape that both parties to this incident,

(25:00):
which is actually a totally one sided incident, right, I mean,
it's a one sided beating up, kicking somebody on the ground.
But the thing is, again remember this, he's not charged
with domestic violence. They even said from the beginning if
he were, he'd plead guilty.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Matt, we are so lucky to have your insight. Thank
you so much for being here. Please follow Matt on
x at at Inner City Press to get all the
latest in the trial. He's there every day, working really hard.
Coming up next, the family's response to Coberger's shocking plea deal,
more on the Deity trial, plus a new civil suit
he's facing. Don't forget to give us a call at
eighty and eight thirty one. Crime stick right here it

(25:35):
true crime.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Tonight.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
The three of us have been on fire today. This
day has been wild in terms of these new developments
in two major cases. If you're just joining us, Diddy,
the deliberations are underway. It's been a infusing day apparently,
and we will be following that very closely because tomorrow
we actually could have a verdict, which is unbelievable. And

(26:09):
then also the Idaho College murders. You know, Brian Coberger,
the accused, shocking development yesterday that he has pled guilty,
changing his verdict or changing his plea. Reminder, he has
always said he was innocent for two and a half
years for murdering four incredible Idaho College students back in

(26:31):
twenty twenty two. And tomorrow he's going to go to
court and his family's going to be there, and the victims'
families are going to be there, and he's going to
have to face the media to some extent, and the
anticipation is that he will formally have to say he
is guilty, change his plea, and what happens after that,
we honestly have no idea. So tomorrow is a major

(26:53):
day in all things news. Even today we had an
entirely different show set for today and frankly, I'll just
went out the window right before air. So we want
you to join us eight eight eight three to one Crime.
Please call us and if you want to leave us
a talkback, which is kind of like a little voice memo,
just download the iHeart app, go to your right hand
corner on the app, press this button and you can

(27:15):
leave us a message and boom, you're on the show.
Or you could always hit us up on our socials
at True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram and TikTok, or
at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. I know a lot
of business to get out of the way, So Coburger,
you know the victims' families who have been through it
in ways that we can't even describe. Right they are,

(27:36):
they're in shock. They were prepping for this big trial
and the summer trial was set for mid August. You'll
remember Brian Coberger was even trying to delay that trial
and also putting alternate suspects out there as recently as
ten days ago. So this is big and there's really
mixed feelings from the family members regarding this.

Speaker 6 (27:57):
Yeah, it's really seems emotion fill and filled and shocking
versed on based on some things that some family members
have come out with. Brian Coberger, as you said, he
up until yesterday pled not guilty to murdering the four
University of point of order.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
He has not changed his plea yet.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
That happens officially tomorrow, correct, So he hasn't played guilty yet.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
He's going to change his plea tomorrow.

Speaker 6 (28:22):
Right, it's expected, Yeah, right, that would be bananas, but
possible for him to decide to keep not guilty. But
it was for the crime of stabbing to death Xana Kernodle,
Madison Mogan, Kelly Gonsovez and Ethan Shapin. And what this
does is it does deny the family a family's a
jury trial and also a chance at the death penalty.

(28:45):
So Stephanie had said, what happens next, and we do
know very little, you know, body to your point, Brian
could come in and it's status quo or say something shocking.
But assuming what is expected happens and he pleads guilty
to all four, what that means is and there's a
battery charge as well, a burglary charge rather, but that
means the death penalty is taken off the table. And

(29:05):
he also would have to waive his right to future appeals,
which is a big deal because that could be many,
many years in court that would be avoided.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's hard stuff, though, if you're a family member, God forbid.
And again, our hearts really go out to all the
family members who are suffering in this. They didn't get
a choice, they didn't get to choose the manner of death.
And you know, the suddenness of this seemingly extremely senseless
crime beyond measure. That's like understated, big exclamation point, put

(29:37):
it in bold, you know. Like I guess that's where
the feelings come in, right, Like suddenly he's controlling the
narrative still somehow, Brian Coberger, even now two and a
half years later, is like calling the shots a little bit.
And I think there's some hurt feelings from sources that
we've spoken to as recently as just a few hours ago.
There's hurt feelings because they feel like the prosecution didn't

(29:59):
really share this information in a way that was more meaningful,
meaning not a phone call allegedly, it was just an email,
and you know that's hard stuff.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
I mean, yeah, but I don't.

Speaker 6 (30:12):
I kind of take issue when you said Brian Coberger
controlling the narrative because also there is the prosecution, you know,
the state of Idaho, and also his defense. So there's
a lot of players here and some of.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Them No, no, I disagree. It's him. This is his choice.
He could ultimately it's true himself if you want.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
It's like he is in deciding that he's changing his
pretend vote and has been lying to everybody this.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
Entire last opportunity to do so, right, So I keep
I keep going back, like why now? Why now? But
this is his last opportunity to do so. The judge said,
the last best offer is due on this date, Like
this is his last chance to save his life.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
I mean, good, this is the only time it could happen.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Well, we wouldn't want Brian Coburgers to be so whole,
you know, it's so upsetting.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
And by the way, I'm upset for his family too.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
They seem really lovely and now they got to schlep
all with a boise and probably be harassed beyond measure.
And the victim's families are going to be there. Can
you imagine this just well, Steve's.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Kayley's dad, the one who's really been the most vocal
about his displeasure with this plea deal. He has said
he's not going in the courtroom. He's too angry.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Can you blame him though for that? At that point?
You know, I don't know that I blame him. And again,
this is just one of those crimes that I guess
we're also obsessed with because I guess he's a young person.
He was studying the exact crime he's now being accused of.
We've been so careful not to accuse him of anything,
secretly hoping that there was some something in this story
that would.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Maybe make it make a little sense.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
And the fact that he's just been straight facing it
to everybody and just went out of his way to
murder four people and now gets to decide how it's
all going to shake out. It's so upsetting to me.
I don't know what gets me at the core. In
a way, I guess it gets me in the same
way that the idea that Diddy can beat up a
bunch of women and walk away Scott.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Free makes me mad.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
And I don't know how we should unpack it so
that but he's not walking away.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Coburger's not walking away.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
Yeah, he said, what if he did this, what if
he did this in a state without the death penalty?

Speaker 3 (32:15):
This is where be That's true. That's a fair point.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
And this is not even my stance on whether I
believe in the death sentence or otherwise. It's just it's
just what a waste of a life. And I wish
we could understand better the why. And it doesn't seem
like there's anything, it's anything to like scratch at on
this one.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
And yeah, it kind of makes me nauseous a little bit.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
So I find out why in other in other ways,
like a study or a book or you know, something
there might be. In fact, doctor Ramsland was on with
Brian Inton tonight and she said that she no, of course,
Catherine Ramsland was his former professor and advisor. She's a criminal,
you know, expert, She's got a PhD. And she did
a book on BTK. She studied BTK and she said

(32:57):
she would like to study him if he's willing, which
is very interesting.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I mean, isn't that his dream come true? That was
his professor that he looked up to so much, and
now we're all making all this hay about Brian Coburger
and it's upsetting. You know, we were invited today to
talk on TMZ with Harvey Levin and the team there,
and you know they were so kind and you know,
thank you for having us and for you know, just
discussing this case. But that was the big hookup was

(33:20):
it's an issue at some point of this family wants
some justice and it just seems like it's a never
ending thing.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy
Movin and I'm joined here by Stephanie Leidecker and Courtey
Armstrong and we're right in the middle of talking about
Brian Coberger. If you want to weigh in, give us
a call at one eight eight eight thirty one Crime
or use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. And I
understand we have a talkback.

Speaker 9 (33:46):
Hi, ladies, this is Liz from Washington. I'm curious on
your thoughts about the Coburger plea and his confession. If
he doesn't have to give a confession in court, is
there any way that you think he might be holding
back on a confession so that he can do some
TV interviews and make money off of them once he's
in prison. I'm curious if there's an ulterior motive here
for either him or his family so that he can
get something out of his life to come after his sentencing.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Thanks bye, excellent question. That's such a good question. I
hadn't even thought of that. Well, so I don't think.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
You know, there's the son of Sam law and that
was adopted nationally many many years ago, and that prevents
convicted murderers of profiting from their murder. Right. However, the
son of Sam law has expired in many states, and
I don't know if it's been reevaluated and readopted in Idaho.
I could look it up, but generally it's it's against

(34:39):
the law to get money from a murder, so he
wouldn't be able, generally speaking, to make any money from
interviews or books or anything like that. And I know
that Steve Consalvez, the father of one of the victims, Kaylee,
is working with Idaho lawmakers, I think, And somebody can
chime in if I have this incorrect on getting like,
there's people out there we've talked about this that are

(35:01):
love of serial killers.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Right, it's a disease.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
And if people put money on Brian Coberger's books, that
money is to be confiscated. So we're going to I
don't think that's going to happen. However, I do think
that he does have a motive in working with people
like Catherine Yamsland maybe even the Behavioral Science Unit.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
I think he kind of might.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Enjoy it quite frankly, Yeah, quite frankly. People who want
to know, like me, you know, who want to know
these things, will also like it.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
He'd better say something tomorrow. He's not going to, is
my prediction.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
But well, he would probably do it at sentencing.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
If he allocutes in, it would likely be at sentencing
after the victim impact statements are read.

Speaker 6 (35:48):
That's going to be something. By the way, the fact
check that you were hoping for body the Idaho. Idaho
has not reinstated the son of Sam law. There's no
indication that such a law is being activated or applied currently.
I had no idea that expired.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
It expired a while ago in many states, but most
people they developed their own state kind of son of
Sam law. Yeah, we should get a map and make
it together and put it together and see where those exist.

Speaker 6 (36:17):
And just a last thing. We'll talk much more about
what the victims' families are feeling, because we do know,
and we'll speak about that later in the show. But
just one thing to note that since nineteen seventy six,
it's a long time ago, Idaho has executed a total
of three people.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
The last one being twenty twelve.

Speaker 6 (36:36):
Yeah, so recent in that history, but just pointing to
even essentially had this gone forward and every iteration of
the law and the appeals, yeah, I would.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
Be a lot of appeals hearings to travel to for
these families and a lot of pain to sit through
over and over and over again.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
It's very difficult.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
The whole country has been going through it, getting these
change of venue from the car college town because he
couldn't get a fair trial. Now he has to go
all the way to Boise. It's been unbelievable in terms
of a bleed. And this, you know, hopefully is a
cautionary tale like you won't get away with it.

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Life is long, right, Well, we're going to continue on
this conversation and follow up there's going to be more
on Diddy. I know Diddy all the time, introducing new
disturbing civil suit.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
So much is happening in the news right now. We
are in trial mania.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I suppose we were just saying earlier we had a
full show planned for the night and that frankly went
out the window.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
And the because I made a joke about it. I
know you did.

Speaker 6 (37:32):
You called it.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
You were like, look, how nice this is all laid out.
We were all like, yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
And suddenly this diddy information drops right and you know,
again confusing. We've been talking quite a bit about it,
so a if you've missed any of the first hour,
please jump in, you know, please check us out. It's
a podcast as well right after, and also please join
the conversation eight eight eight three one crime. We really
want to hear your opinions on this because listen, we

(38:00):
all have one and yours counts.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
So Stephanie, really quick.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
I hate to interrupt you, but you can have glossed
over something a little earlier. Listen, it's been a really
heavy couple of days and I just want to add
some levity to like our life.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Right now. You said you want on TMZ, can you
what what are you talking about? What happened?

Speaker 2 (38:17):
We were, well, who knows.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Anyone who knows me knows that I really love the
you're obsessed with.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I watched TMZ every single day, So I'm just a
a TMZ watcher and more like a.

Speaker 6 (38:32):
Religion to you than just a general Oh I watch it.
I mean every conversation I do.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
I am just a sucker for that show. I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
I want to know all things Britney Spears and what's
happening with you know, Hayley Bieber, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
But I do. I'm a fan.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
And then I, you know, not long before air on
their air not ours, uh, you know, got a phone
call and was asked to just kind of appear with
them to talk about the new developments in this case
with the Idaho College murders, and you know, toss on
a T shirt and throw on some look glass and boom,
You're on your favorite show.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
It was really fun.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
So thanks for having us. They were very kind. They
were really great, and you know, it's like a dream
come true for you. For me, it's a little it was.
That's so great. It's wonderful and deserved.

Speaker 6 (39:25):
Honestly, how many years and years and hours of between
the documentary on Peacock between the two seasons of The
Idaho Massacre that we've already done for iHeart I mean
the interviews and yeah, just the space.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
You should know, it's been a fun, a fun little
moment in that regarding note and wish. Of course, we
were talking about something like less horrible, right, you know
what we're discussing is something so heart wrenching. And yeah,
we've been making the documentary for Peacock. I can't say
too too much about it, but but I'm really excited
for you guys to see it. And it's based on

(40:04):
the true crime podcast The Idaho Massacre. And yeah, as
you could imagine, when this information dropped yesterday, super intense
because it changes a lot of the things, and we're
so mindful about not trying to make anything happen that
could disrupt this trial in the Brian Coburger case, because
he's been accused of murdering for Idaho college students. Seems unfathomable,

(40:25):
particularly because he was a PhD.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Student studying criminology.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
You know, we all saw that show Dexter who you know, listen,
not that there's ever killing for good, but in that.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Particular line, Yeah, like this guy is.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Like taking the roll book from some place and scary
stuff and he's so unexpected and his family was so nice.
So yeah, I personally I'm feeling a little close to
all of it. And you know, the families are you know,
torn up, and you.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Know, very secret seems.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, there's no piece of cake, there's no secret pill,
there's no documentary. There's a real piece that comes right
and you know, I just think being shell shocked by
this information. Listen, we were all shell shocked. It's not
our kid, our sibling.

Speaker 6 (41:10):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
We're going to be right back because we have so
many new developments happening, of course, in this diddy situation,
So please stay with us. This is true crime tonight,
talk in true crime all the time. The accused, Brian Coberger,

(41:33):
has now changed his plea and is allegedly going to
face the music tomorrow and plead not guilty to all
four counts in.

Speaker 6 (41:42):
These hideous guilt urns.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Oh yeah, excuse me exactly, he will plead guilty, which
is a big you known of events. I've actually really
not heard much of his voice in all of our
time working on this case, and so many iterations of it.
I don't really I would not recogniz his voice amongst others,
which is interesting, like he's a shy guy, a shy

(42:05):
guy with some obvious rage and then Diddy. You know,
they're Apparently the jurors have been deliberating, and they've been
pretty clear that they've come to terms on four of
the five charges. More on that still to come, possibly
also tomorrow. We need a twenty four hour true crime tonight,
which really this point we just need to be all crime,
literally all the time.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
And Rico is up for a conversation and listen.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I know these have been really dominating the conversations, certainly
in my head as well, but we don't want to
lose sight of some of these other big headlines that
have been happening that are again scary stuff and important
that we talk about the Minnesota shooter shooter and we
have some new developments on that one also, and then
also the case of the firefighters being lured.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
And then I mean, what is going on in this land?

Speaker 2 (42:56):
So I don't want to promote these people any there,
but at the same time, I do think it's important
that we talk about this stuff and make sure that
we're unpacking it and keeping ourselves safe and keeping you
all safe as well. So body headlines, you're u.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
So at Sunday, there was a fire called in and
when the firefighters are in Quardlaine, Idaho, I should add,
and when the firefighters arrived, they were basically kind of ambushed,
right with bullets and shots, and so you know they're
scrambling and meanwhile three firefighters were shot. One was taken

(43:31):
to surgery. His name has been released. It's Engineer David
tide Still. He's forty seven from Cordelaine. He was critically
wounded and is currently, thank goodness, in recovery following successful surgery.
So that's good news. The bad news there were two
other firefighters shot and unfortunately they passed away. And it's
Battalion Chief Frank Harwood. He is forty two from Kootenaye

(43:55):
County Fire and Rescue. And then Battalion Chief John Morrison,
he's fifty two from cord Alane Fire Department. Many have
you know, listen, so many people have weighed in on
this because like who shoots firefighters? They if there's one
Americans agree on, right, I think, and we don't agree

(44:16):
on a lot lately, but if there's one thing we
agree on, it's firefighters are heroes and loved by everybody
exactly many of them do it for free, Yeah volunteers.
Who Okay, so who shoots a fireman? This guy, he's
twenty year old Wes val Roi, and quite frankly, we
don't know a lot about him. He has some little

(44:40):
like minor criminal activity, but nothing to write home about.
The sheriff said they were really minor things like trespassing
and they just asked him to leave, and he was
like super compliant.

Speaker 6 (44:49):
He left.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
He died that day of a self inflicted gunshot wound.
He admired law enforcement by all accounts, and he actually
wanted to be a firefighter. Many has said that he
got denied maybe getting into firefighting, and this might be
some kind of revenge. Do we know, do we know
that as fact or is that it's just this is

(45:12):
all kind of like speculation at the time, Like I said,
many have said, you know, we don't have like any
really good information on this guy.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Yet we just don't.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
And there has been some chatter of his I don't know,
this is like so like a zero. He has divorced parents,
has a stepdad. There was, you know, some chatter that
there was like something behind closed doors there, but nothing
really revelatory.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
Yeah, nothing like concrete either. It's all like like he
might have been living in his car. The sheriff during
the press conference yesterday had said, like it appeared like
a lot of his belongings were in the car and
he might have been living in it, so he's kind
of transient. But nothing concrete. There's really just been no reasoning,
senseless and you know, we always want to make sense
of things, right, and this just I mean.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
Firefighters who does this?

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Yeah, I mean any and any public servant you shouldn't
be shooting at like, let me anybody, yes shotse.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
No, of course not. But like firefighters are angels. It's
like shooting a nurse. Like what the.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Heck exactly so well said, it is like shooting a nurse.
And again for the firefighters who put themselves out there
for us time and time again, I mean we just
all sort of just know what happened here in California.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Excuse me?

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Oh, yes, right, you know the firefighters that worked twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week. They put
their lives and their health on the line. They leave
their families behind so they can save hours and this
clown goes about this for no reason whatsoever, not that
there's a good reason in any case, but it makes
me really upset.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Yeah, and you know, the fire is still blazing and
they're trying to figure out what happened. And this crime
scene is inaccessible because the fire and unfortunately the fire
department's been shot at.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
So what do they do?

Speaker 4 (46:58):
I mean, you know, so not only are use have
to of course these wonderful firemen and their battalions, and
obviously they're morale, but now you're affecting like the citizens
because there's this raging fire that's right.

Speaker 6 (47:09):
So much destruction and on one Sunday. So we'll keep
everyone abreast on as the fire, you know, it is
taken under control and as the crime scene is investigated.
There's another big story in the news. I know we've
all been following it. It's about the Minnesota shootings. In June,
Minnesota Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband, along with their

(47:32):
dog were shot and were killed in their home. Also
that day, Senator John Hoffman and his wife, Yvette were
injured in another shooting. And they my numbers might be off,
but they were shot something like eight and nine times
and miraculously lived. So the person who is alleged to

(47:52):
have done the shooting was back in court and a
federal judge is actually pushed back what was going to
be a lot chars hearing for this shooter vance Bolter
after you know, allegedly assassinating, and it's pushed back because
he has said vance Bolter have said that jail conditions
prevented this poor guy from sleeping for at least twelve days.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Twelve days of no sleep for him. Meanwhile, he's been
on surveillance. We've seen his mug. This is not something
that's super up for conversation. We've seen him. This guy
makes me. Also, he's just bolding Trey. He's tired, he's
two weeks he needs he hasn't addressed. He's been sleeping
on a mat. And it's very bright in this prison
jails situation, and like, what does he think he's at

(48:38):
a spa.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
He is not at a spa.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
And yeah, it should be loud and miserable and what
he has done is unimaginable and he deserves to really
be on a mat.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
He deserves so little. And again I'm not speaking and
putting somebody behind bars. That isn't there there's like footage
of him.

Speaker 6 (48:56):
Well, the sheriff had a lot of similar things to say. Allegedly, yes,
but in this court appearance vance Bolter, he was wearing
a green suicide safety smock that is designed specifically to
prevent inmates from hanging themselves, and Bolter's public defender, he
requested the continuance and said because his client has not

(49:17):
been able to sleep for two weeks. Bolter raised concerns Stephanie,
as you said about the lights being on, about sleeping
on a mat, door slamming, and allegedly the inmate next
to him spreading feces. Now let's leave and this is
another important issue. Let's leave prison and jail conditions for
another day, because that is an issue worth talking about. However,

(49:41):
the sheriff rebutted, and this is County Sheriff Jeff Bolt
absolutely denied these allegations made by Vance Bolter.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Don't they have video of him sleeping for seven hours straight?
According to security.

Speaker 6 (49:54):
Security village from two separate days captured him resting peaceful
with his eyes closed for nice seven hours, and that
the correctional officers conducting the welfare checks also said that
and he is being treated like every other inmate in
the circumstances, and the sheriff said, he is not in
a hotel. He is in jail where a person belongs

(50:17):
when they commit the heinous crimes he is accused of committing.
So we will leave it there.

Speaker 4 (50:24):
Yeah, you're listening to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I
am Crime Analyst's body move in here with Stephanie Leidecker
and producer Courtney Armstrong, and we've been talking about the
latest headlines in the news. And if you want to
weigh in, give us a call at eight eight eight
thirty one Crime, or use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio
app and we have a talkback.

Speaker 10 (50:44):
Hi, It's Cynthia calling from Canada. Just in regards to
the Idaho massacre. I think he pled guilty because he
knew that the prosecution had enough vote of evidence that
he would be convicted. I also believe that it'll come
up that he's an in cell and the incident occurred

(51:04):
because of something that happened apparently at a pool party
uh at the beginning of the school year.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
I love this call. I love it.

Speaker 6 (51:12):
Cynthia from Canada. Also, we love you. You have called back.
You are not a first time caller, and we appreciate
you and your insightful questions.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
We asked Cynthia called because we've actually looked forward to
your talk back. So Cynthia, keep them coming because there's
such good questions and very well.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
She makes a really good observation about the pool party
that happened on the I think July ninth. And you know,
Brian Colberger is seen at this pool party, right, and
he talks to a woman and she kind of is
married and doesn't really want anything to do with him,
and he, you know, keeps talking to her and to
the point where her husband has to come over. Then

(51:51):
on that same day is the first day according to
the documents released in the through the court system, so
this is like official the same day he first appears
within range of the house on King Road where the
murders happened. So did he see one of the roommates,
you know, the girls there and maybe follow them home

(52:13):
or did they come pick up one of their friends
and follow you know what I mean? Like, was there
some kind of interaction that day at the pool party
that where he followed one of them home? And that's
why he shows up for the first time it within
range of that house. So Cynthia, that's really good and
he might be an insult. I agree with you, girl,

(52:33):
I totally agree with you. I think we are going
to learn that and we're probably going to do a
whole segment on insult soon. Stick around for that, not today,
but soon, because that's I'm all about that stuff.

Speaker 6 (52:44):
And for people who don't know that, that stands for
involuntary celibacy or involuntary celibate, and it very broadly. A
lot of men it can be it can be both,
but they are.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
I don't think it's only in cells.

Speaker 6 (53:01):
That's right themselves. Yeah, and it's often paired with a
lot of rage against the female sex for not having
sexual intercourse with them. Like you said, right, it's a
rabbit hole, will go down, but you make some really
interesting things.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
And her other point was that she thinks the prosecution
has a stacked deck. Right stuff your favorite stacked deck, right,
it's favor And I think you're right. I think that
I think that you know, they got the denial after
denial after denial, right recently denial the court change date.
There's just been and I think he just was like Okay,

(53:34):
I see what's happening.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
So stick around.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
We're going to be talking a lot more about all
of these topics in hearing your thoughts on both. Please
call us at eight eight to thirty one crime or
use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app so that we
can do some chitter chatter.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
Please make sure you are joining us and also sharing
your opinion. Tell us how you're feeling about all of
this stuff. You know, it's an amped time in these cases,
get us also a little extra amps, which is what
I'm just grateful we get to talk about it together
because I feel comforted when I get to talk it
out with you guys. And God knows, I don't know
the answer to anything, but if I had a whole.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
Bodice these feelings in and how you know, I would
be going crazy. So I'm very grateful to be able
to have these conversations, you know, and I really want
people to weigh in, you know, like tell us what
you're thinking, how do you feel? You know, it's certainly
not us, We're not We're not a judging jury, no,
of course not. And I would never you know, put

(54:30):
my feelings on how the family is feeling. You know,
of course, and you know Brian Coberger's family now has
worse statement. I think Courtney is going to go into
someone else.

Speaker 6 (54:38):
And yeah, yesterday, as Stephanie was saying, there was the
shocking news that Brian Coberger will be taking a plea
deal or as planned to take a plea deal, taking
the death sentence off the table and also removing the
jury process. He would not go through a whole or
excuse me, court case and the victim's family. Some support

(55:00):
the plea deal because of its finality, and others see
it just as a straight betrayal. They've called it shockingly
cruel and unjust and felt that there was not enough consultation.
But the family of Ethan Chapin, they backed the deal
that was made and they believe it allows the case
to close, that it prevents a costly and traumatic trial.

(55:23):
And Ethan Chapin's mom Stacy, she supports it and she
does plan to attend the upcoming hearing and she'll be
in its favor.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
My heart goes out to her too. If you guys
ever seen her, she was at crime Con. She and
Joseph Scott morgan O are forensics expert who was on
the show with us, you know, these previous Sundays, and
it will be so again. She got up and spoke,
and it will tear your heart out. The peace, the grace,
the kindness. You know, they've said, the Chapin family since

(55:54):
day one that they just want to kind of move
on with this and remember their beautiful son, and knock
it kind of pulled into the frenzy. Remember Ethan Shapin
was a triplet. He had a sister and a brother
who you know used to attend Idaho University as well,
which is you know, got to be so rough. So
she's really an image of grace.

Speaker 6 (56:15):
Absolutely, And we're going to a little bit later we're
going to speak about what the other family members have
to say, including the family of the accused or about
to plead guilty Brian Coberger. But right now we have
a caller on the line and we'd love to speak
with you. Venise.

Speaker 8 (56:31):
Hello, Hello, Hi, Vanise, Hi, how are you doing this evening?

Speaker 3 (56:37):
We're so happy you're joining us. What's your question?

Speaker 8 (56:40):
Thank you for having me. I am on calling because
of course I heard what's happened with the Diddy trial.
So two three five unanimous, but count one racket heeering.
That's the count that I have always had sort of
a a problem trying to understand because from my understanding,

(57:03):
racketeering typically takes more than one person. So I never
really understood how one individual could be charged for racketeering
and what what what they were basing that off of
the outside of all of the other, of course things
that we can we can pull, but I just don't

(57:23):
understand how one person could be charged. And then with
that understanding, what the four day weekend coming up? I'm
wondering with the hold out, how motivated the jurors are
going to be to make a seless decision so they
don't have to be held with the fort day weekend.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
What a great question, Venise. That is such a good question.
And she's right.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
Because usually when you think of Rico, you know, of
course Rico the racketeering charge, the account one that the
jurors are stuck on. It is basically saying that you
know there's a criminal enterprise at play, right, and you
would think it would take more than one person right
to to do Rico, and there would have to be
more people charged also because you know there's conspiracy and

(58:06):
you know, but no, you don't he's he's being charged
with running the criminal enterprise and people underneath him have
gotten immunity for testifying. So true, you know, I think,
but I think, I mean, I think that's what's going on.
I'm certainly no expert, but the little that I do
know is that you definitely don't need to have just
two people or three people, or four people or five people.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
You can just have one.

Speaker 6 (58:30):
But also beneath all of the testimonies that came in
through former assistants and people who were you know, whether
they were cleaning up after the freak offs, which are
emboiled into the sex trafficking, or whether they were dropping
off stuff for those evenings, or the drugs that people
were moving distributing. I know that's in question right now,

(58:53):
but there were others, and I think what's complicated we
had an expert on and I'm not remembering which, but
that is part of the complication Venie, is that you know,
bad Boys records is not no one's alleging that it's
just to have criminal activities for Diddy, but that they
were embroiled inside of it, and that many of the

(59:15):
people around Diddy were engaging to help these crimes.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Can I ask a question because venis you might have
an opinion on this. Also, if he gets found if
he's found innocent of the Rico charges, and he's found
not guilty on the main first charge and maybe one
of the predicates the lesser charges he is found guilty on,
is the prosecution able to retry him for count one

(59:42):
of racketeering? And hey, while I'm mad at this has
been a fun dress rehearsal. Everyone prosecution now knows what
they did. Maybe a less instellar job about and let's
round up all the kids and anybody else on his staff.
Maybe else Coo can be brought to charges as well.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
I don't think so. Well, yeah, oh that's true. You're right,
that's right, that's right. Garrison Ford would not like that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
Only right he gets retried is if it's a mistrial,
like a hung jury on that charge, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Right, ooh, I yeah, I feel like very confused and
scared by it all. And listen, we've seen this in
some of these high profile cases where this instruction is
so specific, right, so one person just like not understanding,
like we're hearing happened yesterday with one of the jurors.
You're formerly known as your juror number twenty five. That's

(01:00:35):
scary stuff too, because does that just leave room for
more appeals too? And also great question about the July
fourth weekend. Imagine how are they listen when one thought,
how is the jury not sequestered at least while they're deliberating.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
If it's a too much for thirty days or you know,
we've seen that, I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I get it, I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
But for those next couple of days, since everybody talking
about this right now, who's to say that all the
jurors aren't going home and just you know, watching Fox
News and CNN.

Speaker 6 (01:01:07):
Or just going to a barbecue on the True Crime tonight.

Speaker 8 (01:01:09):
Yeah, safe me that one or two hold out duror
who's like, no, I can't make up my mind yet,
they're gonna now go home. I'm sure people know where
they potentially live, and now they're they're exposed to potential
danger because they haven't made it a final decision yet.
So all of this seems to me like it's not
really well thought out. But I'm not a professional couch.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
We just play one on the radio. You sound like
a professional to us, Sure do, sure do. Thank you
for calling Nise. Thank thank you Venise.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
Wow, that was a great question, clever question. Yeah, that's
a question.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
She's a smart Listen, our listeners are very smart. They're
smart than though I think.

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
Yeah, listen, that's always surround yourself with people who are smarter.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
That's agreed, that's a great So what else did so?
What else did Coberger's family or coborgers with the victim's family.

Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
Yeah, So hopping back in and this is all in
response to the trial will very likely not happen after
Brian Coberger pleads guilty tomorrow, as he's planned to do
for murdering the four victims in Idaho. So, Madison Mogan,
we already spoke about Ethan Chapin's family and they are

(01:02:22):
for it. They are for this plea deal. Madison Mogan's
family also supports this plea and views it as a
way to quote, put this behind us, to avoid the
prolonged courtroom proceedings. And Madison's father Ben, he said he
feels relief at the end of the uncertainty. And something

(01:02:43):
that's quoted is if you get that quick death sentence,
you don't have to spend decades thinking about how terrible
you made the world. We can actually put this behind us,
think about the rest of our lives and have to
try and figure out how to do it without Maddie.
And that's margeously.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Said, and we're breaking.

Speaker 6 (01:03:02):
It's very heartbreaking, and honestly, I have to say I
can't put myself in the position, but I've always felt
that in that position, I would feel that way that
death was almost too easy, that they should live out
every day knowing what they did. But listen, we're going
to continue discussing more about this. We will finish up
with the rest of the families and their responses, and

(01:03:25):
we also are going to be taking your calls, So
reach out eight at eight three one crime, Keep it here,
True Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, I head
of Katie's Studios, and we make true crime podcasts, documentaries.
And you know who is with me, Courtney Armstrong, body
move in and listen. Lots to unpacked tonight. So we've
been knee deep in all things Diddy. As a reminder,

(01:04:06):
will be tracking this closely tomorrow there could be a verdict,
And honestly, at this point it's a it's a country
divided as to how this will shake out. There doesn't
seem to really be a clear obvious answer. So we're
on Diddy Watch and then Brian Coburger the accused and
the Idaho College murders, accused of killing Madison Mogan, Kaylee
gonzalveez Ethan Shapin, and of course why am I, oh,

(01:04:30):
Kaylee Gonzalvez, Did I say this wrong?

Speaker 6 (01:04:33):
I hold not.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
You know, their families have really had a ton to
say real time about kind of their mixed emotions about
this new development and him changing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
His plea to guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Also, you know, for the first time, Brian Coburger, the accused,
his parents and family have put out a public statement
and you know, we've heard very little from them, and
they really haven't been attending a lot of these hearings
throughout the last year. It's been you know, his sisters
were fired from their jobs. You know, mom used to
work at the school that was a janitor with bankrupt

(01:05:05):
putting you know, his son through university and such. So
the statement, body, I know you have that top of hands.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Yeah, I got this.

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
From our friend Brian Entton, and right before air, his
family released a statement. Brian Coberger's family released a statement
and it says, in light of recent developments, the Coburgers
are asking members of the media for privacy, respect, and
responsible judgment during this time. We will continue to allow
the legal process to unfold with respect to all parties,

(01:05:36):
and will not release any comments or take any questions.
We ask that you respect our wishes during a difficult
time for all those affected.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
What a tough spot.

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
And Brian Entton also released that the Coburgers will be
at the hearing tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
It's important to know that the Coburgers have not been
to any of the proceedings thus far. They've been to
no of the pre trial hearings. However, they did go
to the extradition hearing or in Pennsylvania except for the
oldest sister.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
What do you mean that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
I mean it started resources right, Like, that's a very
expensive trip to make.

Speaker 6 (01:06:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
They've put so much money on the line to get
their son through university. The sisters have always been very
interesting to us because they're two older sisters, you know.
But Brian was the baby and one of them was
a therapist and you know, very loved, and the other
you know, they both got fire just by being related
to him. So for them to all have to go

(01:06:37):
and face the other victims' families.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
I mean, he destroyed, He destroyed many families, right, He's
it's it's unfortunately, of course, you know, Brian Coberger's family
still have him alive to talk to and look at,
you know, and the victims of Brian Coburger's they they
don't have their loved one, but they're all victims. Like
Brian Coberger's family is completely destroyed. It's sad, it's very

(01:07:01):
that's right. But I think it's telling that that they're
going to this hearing. I think that Listen, don't get
me started, but I do think that they had a
hand in him taking this arrangement. I think Mom particularly
pled with him. You know, please Brian, like I can't
lose you. I you know, this this whole thing that

(01:07:21):
I would do if it was my kid too, right,
I would be begging please you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
Terrible, And I think it kind of came down to
we'll even be there, We'll be by your side, we
will fly out there, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Kind of that kind of situation. We don't know, it's
all speculative, but just a feeling I have.

Speaker 6 (01:07:38):
So Brian Coburger, the reason body you mentioned the extradition
from Pennsylvania, and that was even Brian Coburger was from Pennsylvania,
had been at a neighboring college next to the University
of Idaho, and then it was he took a whole
trip back to Pennsylvania and after for the Thanksgiving break
or Thanksgiving break, and then after several weeks he was

(01:08:02):
captured at his home.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Run right, So he was captured at his home.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
And there has always been some chatter that maybe one
of the sisters tipped it off, and you know, she
had kind of a bad feeling. Again, you don't want
to think these things about a loved one, and you know,
it seems like from an outsider looking in. And again
we read the chatter also of like, well, you know,
they raised a monster, brought blah blah, and it's like,
that's tough until you're in somebody's shoes. You know, Really,

(01:08:26):
who's to say we haven't ever heard anything negative about them? Truly,
I mean truly, truly truly, we really haven't. And that
takes a lot of courage to have to face these victims'
families as well. I would imagine that I think this
is going to be the first time that they're actually
all locking eyes. I think it is as well.

Speaker 4 (01:08:43):
Know it is because they haven't been in the hearings. Yeah,
they only went to the one in Pennsylvania. And of
course the victims' families weren't there. They're you know, they're
all in Idaho and Arizona and Washington.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
You guys ever see that documentary. Not to change subjects,
but I promise it has a point. It was the
I'm forgetting the name of it, but it was so
sad and really worth a watch. It was made by
the mom of one of the Columbine shooters, and it was,
you know, kind of her perspective of raising a son.

(01:09:13):
I hope I'm getting this right, but I'm pretty sure
it was Columbine, one of the terrible school shootings, and
her son was not only killed himself because he took
his own life, but was this active shooter. And you
know the signs that she missed. You know, she had
kissed him the night before, you know, in her mind,
busy mom. You know, they have you know, hectic lives

(01:09:33):
and jobs and work. You know, she felt pretty engaged
with him and felt as though, you know, she was
kind of on it and didn't really see these big,
huge warning signs allegedly. And it was an interesting perspective
because they took so much heat. You know, you raise
somebody who took so much from so many you know, yeah,
you become a target for that. And on the flip

(01:09:55):
it offered a level of compassion that I hadn't really
experienced until I watched that of a some of the
signs that maybe retrospectively she really wanted to discuss and
talk about that, maybe that you just straight up missed.
And some of that was because we love so much.
You know, sometimes you love someone so much you don't
want to see the very worst trait and we explain

(01:10:17):
stuff away. And you know, this is obviously I'm projecting.
I don't know this is how the Coburgers feel, but
I would have to assume this is a very difficult
moment for them as well.

Speaker 6 (01:10:26):
Beyond words, I can absolutely I believe the documentary. I've
seen it as well. I think it's called American Tragedy,
and I believe so, Yeah, I've also seen that mom
do a TED talk and it was one of the
most powerful TED talks I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
And it's a lot of guts for her to put
herself out there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
You know, this is again you have a target on
your own back and people are awful, right, so.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
Why don't you do this? And why don't you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
And again I get it, like that's got to be enraging,
but she actually really took that back and just almost said, like,
I want everyone to learn from me what I missed,
and let's like play that forward worst case scenario basically.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
But yeah, it's it's worth a watch.

Speaker 6 (01:11:13):
So have you guys just sticking with that tangent for
one hot second, have you guys seen adolescence on exactly? Which, Yeah,
so that's not a documentary, but it really it tells
all sides of In this case, the boy was I
believe thirteen years old and he murdered an innocent girl
basically with rage. There were some notes of in cells

(01:11:37):
which we mentioned before and we'll talk about later, but
it shows from his perspective, you know, the family of
the suspect or of in that case, the murderer, and
of course everyone else's. But there's a lot of sides
to this coin.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Yeah, being a family member, we even see this done.
To jump to ditty again, but you know, his daughters
are young girls. You know, they've been subjected to this trial.
They're seeing dad and you know, some of the darkest
parts of their father's daily life, right his sex life,
his you know, kinks, all the things that have been
you know, wiped out. You know, you have to wonder
are they all catching heat too as a result? You know,

(01:12:14):
these were young people that sometimes death by association.

Speaker 6 (01:12:18):
Absolutely, and if you want to, if you want to
weigh in, which we'd love you too, give us a
call eight to day through on Crime. This is True
Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. So we've already have spoken about
how the families half of the families are feeling in
the Coburger case. Ethan Chapin's family, it seems happy is
not the right word, but they support the plea, as

(01:12:39):
does the family of Madison Mogan on the other side,
is in a Kernodles family and they also feel that,
you know, they want to criticize the prosecutors and they
do not feel they were spared as family, which is
what the prosecution is saying we wanted to spare you,
and they said, quote, we know the goals, they were
not trying to spare us. And then finally the family

(01:13:01):
of Kaylee Gonsalvez, they said they they were not prepared
for the plea deal. They had no idea what was
going to happen. They felt that Idahoa has failed them
as a state failed their family. They called it sad
and disgusting and also, body, I believe you said that
Kaylee's family will be standing outside the courtroom. Is that correct?

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
Yes, that's my understanding is that Steve will not. And
I don't know if the whole family. I just know
the dad, Steve Gonsalves, who has arguingly been the most
public and forthcoming about his feelings of, you know, despair
over over this plea deal. He said that, and I'm paraphrasing,
but he said, he's too angry, and he doesn't I

(01:13:42):
don't think he wants to be in the courtroom. I
think he's disgusted, and you know, it's certainly not for
me to tell him how to feel, and so you
have to respect that he recognizes that he might lose
his cool. I absolutely respect that, and I think he
wants and I don't kind of help blame him. I
think he wants the media to see him out there.

(01:14:07):
It's kind of like a silent protest to a little bit.

Speaker 6 (01:14:09):
Yes, that's how That's how I would see it as well.
And I have no idea what is in this man's mind,
but putting myself in his position for a moment, I
don't believe I would be able to physically control myself
in a courtroom.

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
I really I don't sure.

Speaker 6 (01:14:27):
I don't think I would.

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
When you have to respect that he recognizes that.

Speaker 6 (01:14:32):
Yes I do.

Speaker 4 (01:14:33):
I absolutely respect that he recognizes that. And you know,
I respect the whole family, even even Kaylee's sister wrote
a letter, you know, to I think, to the judge,
I'm not exactly sure, but she, you know, so eloquent
when she's she's so young, she's only like eighteen or nineteen.
In her letter she said that, you know, Brian gets to,
you know, have a life in her sister's voice has

(01:14:55):
been taken away forever.

Speaker 8 (01:14:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
It's very sad. It's very very sad.

Speaker 4 (01:14:59):
And I commend them for being so public, even though
I necessarily might not agree with it, it's I am
in no place to tell them how to feel, that's all,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Yeah, nobody knows until they're in this horrible situation, right,
And it's particular too. That's interesting that Madison Mogan her
family is a little bit more at peace with this
decision than the Gonzalvez family. That's victim Kayley's parents, because
they were best friends growing up.

Speaker 6 (01:15:24):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Everybody is standing by. So we have Anjeanette Levy will
be on the ground tomorrow reporting there.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
Live as well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
We have Jarrett Farentino who will be with us also
to sort of unpack some of the legal shenanigans that's
happening in all of these cases. Frankly, so, man, guys,
it's been a whirlwind. I can't imagine how stressful this
must be for a the person who's standing trial, but
also for jurors and the ditty case. What a night
this is, this is the night potentially that Again, I

(01:15:54):
said it earlier. I think they should be sequestered because
there's so much chatter right now it's impossible to avoid it.
But I guess we just have to trust the system now,
and you know, we're rooting for them whatever justice looks
like on either side, you know we are we are
standing behind them and supporting them.

Speaker 4 (01:16:12):
Yes, for sure, like one hundred percent support. And you
know tomorrow we might get a verdict and the plea tomorrow.
Tomorrow might be a big another crazy, big day. Yes,
I don't know if I can take it. Honestly, I
think every day, I feel like every day for the
past week, I feel like, oh my god, Okay, what next,
what's happening?

Speaker 3 (01:16:33):
There's too much going on.

Speaker 6 (01:16:34):
I think the last night's show was literally the entire
range of human experience with the with the shock of
this coburger plea deal. I mean there were tears, we
had range, we had empathy, we had.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
It was and now I just looked like I got
hit by a bus.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Yeah you've been through it, an inside out sweatshirt and
a little side phony to go Wow, well listen to.

Speaker 6 (01:17:02):
Your appearance on TMZ was flawless. So keep the phony
for when we're all together. We actually we have a
dm oh oh yes, hello ladies that would be us.
Absolutely love the show, Thank you. I'm wondering, since Brian
Colberger was studying criminology, do you think that he thought
he was smart enough to get away with this.

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
Oh god, that is the age old question.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Did I always want to say three thousand hours on
that question, I could do.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
What we could do a whole show on that question.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
We actually should and and by the way, we should
have her come on and also kind of unpack this
with us, because that is the big question.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Why so messy? If you were so smart?

Speaker 8 (01:17:42):
Wow?

Speaker 6 (01:17:42):
But how I mean think how not messy? Again? The
fact that there was no DNA, no blood in the car.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
Well, we don't know that. We don't Okay, technically we
don't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
I agree with court that it does seem like it's
such an overkill. The walls were bleeding this guy.

Speaker 4 (01:18:00):
I think there was blood. I think it was degraded.
I don't think they could use it. They never said
there was no DNA in the car. They said lack
of DNA. That's a big difference. Oh, that is a
very important distinction. Body, you got when you're reading these
dot enlessen Ann Taylor is a very good lawyer, right,
she chooses her words very carefully. When you're reading these

(01:18:21):
court documents, you really have to look at every word
and you, I mean, when you have to analyze the
document very very closely.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
She said, lack of DNA.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
And do you think that this is I guess unknowable.
But his defense attorney and Taylor, who you were referring to,
is a very prestigious death sentence attorney who's been you know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
One of these real time. Does she know?

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
Does if your defense attorney knows that you did it,
do they have to be compelled in any way?

Speaker 6 (01:18:48):
Or?

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Of course not absolutely not no, So you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Can confess to your defense attorney and I have to
take it to the grave.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Really, I know that's a very basic piece of information
that I should know. For some reason, I don't know
that that is hitting me different right now. I hear
the music and I don't want to show to end everybody,
so listen.

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
Thank you for the beautiful night. I'm so happy to
have been here with you. Guys.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
We're going to be watching closely, so make sure you're
with us tomorrow. True crime tonight, we're talking true crime
all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
Stay safe, have a great night.

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