VERDICT in Athena Strand Trial, D4vd Evidence, and Zanzibar Death Questions

A jury hands down a death sentence in the murder of 7-year-old Athena Strand. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan joins us to break down the disturbing evidence in the D4vd case involving Celeste Rivas Hernandez. We also dig into the suspicious death of influencer Ashly Robinson overseas, where her family is challenging the official ruling. Plus, a new development tied to the Idaho murders and a haunting case involving unidentified child remains. Tune in for all the details. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk
true crime all the time. It is Tuesday, May fifth,
Happy Sinco de Mayo and Happy Taco Tuesday. Isn't it
interesting that it's the same day this year, Taco Tuesday
and Sinco de Mayo. Oh, what are the odds outside
of one to seven? That's right, one in seven, right, Well,

(00:40):
tonight we have a stacked night of headlines. There is
a sentencing verdict in for Tanner Horner. He is the
FedEx driver who kidnapped and murdered little seven year old
Athena Strand in Texas. And you know, the death of
an American influencer abroad. Authorities say it's likely suicide, but
the family thinks otherwise. It's very sad. A new forensics

(01:03):
foundation has been started by the family of one of
the University of Idaho students murdered by Brian Coberger, and
forensics death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan is going to join
us to break all of these cases down and more.
Happy Tuesday, guys, How are you happy Tuesday?

Speaker 3 (01:22):
I have my tequila chilling for after the show and
the Margaret Rita mix is ready to go.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
What about your Angelada casse role.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Before the show's pretty delicious?

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, how about you.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Until after the show. I don't eat until after the
show because I get home from work. I get right
on no time, right, so I eat right after the show,
and I think if you scent it now, it would
arrive by the time of.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Sevendy Oh during the next commercial break.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
For sure.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Here you go.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well let's get started. Let's let's go right to a
talkback boy.

Speaker 5 (01:57):
They I see the Strand tepday.

Speaker 6 (01:59):
Hopefully this is true to you guys.

Speaker 5 (02:00):
Thanks, let y'all fight.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, Athena Strand, Yeah, we have an update and thank you.
I believe that was April from Texas and you certainly
got through.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
There is an outcome.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
So back in November of twenty twenty two, the FedEx
driver Tanner Horner, he abducted seven year old Athena Strand.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
This was right out of her driveway.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
It happened in Paradise, Texas, and at the time Horner
was delivering a package intended to be Athena Strand's Christmas present.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
It was Subarmydalls.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
There was an internal recording device in the fedexs truck
that captured Tanner Horner strangling the victim, seven year old
Athena Strand inside the vehicle, and this was before he
disposed of her body.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Which took place in a nearby river.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Now, Tanner Horner he pleaded guilty on April seventh to
the murder, so that bypassed the guilt phase of the
truck and went directly into a twenty day sentencing phase,
and the entire focus was whether or not he should
face execution or if he should face life without parol.
So just today a Fort Worth jury unanimously decided that

(03:17):
Tanne Horner will face the death penalty verdict. And it
followed just three hours of deliberation. Yeah, you know, it's
so upsetting. I can't imagine what the jury must have
heard and seen during the sentencing phase. Right, because he
pled guilty the day the trial was supposed to start,

(03:37):
the day his guilt phase was supposed to start, the
actual trial, right, he stood up and played guilty. I
just you know, I have a feeling that what they
heard and saw played for the jury of you know,
him murdering poor little Athenis Rand must have been so
horrific it really didn't take them any time at all
to make this decision.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think you're right.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think you're right from from and I and my
heart goes out not obviously just to the family of
Athena Strand, but I mean the jurors will carry that
with them and yeah, oh that will stay with them
for a long time.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
So oh, I was just gonna ask, And just for
people listening who may not be aware of your opinion,
normally three hours is a short amount of time based
on a murder trial, is that that's an uncommonly short
amount I believe.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
So, I believe so, especially for death penalty, got it.
I believe it's I'd have to go back and look
at my little tracker that I made, but I do
believe it's a short time, especially like I said, for
a death penalty.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Face, it's a short time because there's also paperwork that's
involved in advance and get through. The jurors sort of
needs to sign an initial understandings and that they're in agreement.
So even that takes a little bit getting the paperwork
back and forth.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
So okay, yeah, that is it is short, taha, thank you.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
So the defense strategy, what they did, you know what
there they sought to try and humanize Tanner Horner in
the face of the evidence of the prosecution presented, including
of course the audio captured inside the FedEx truck.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
And what they wanted to do was to.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
They argued that he had a diagnosis of autism spectrum
disorder as well as bipolar one disorder that made Tanner
Horner socially deficient and prone to emotional reactivity under stress.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
But that did not fly obviously. Now, I mean, there's
plenty of people that have those diagnoses that are incredibly
successful and functioning members of society, that contribute daily to
society in positive ways. Right, It's not an excuse in
my opinion.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Only, And I feel like and we should try and
think of having a specialist on I feel like autism
spectrum disorder in particular, I'm seeing that a lot in
court cases.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
And I don't know of.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Any statistics that say that that would make you more
likely to violence. I don't believe that to be true,
but we should kind of have a expert.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Onlieve that to be true. I was diagnosed with that
in twenty twelve, and I'm certainly not, you know, violating.
I'm like the most passive person ever, are. You know?
It's a spectrum, right, so, and a spectrum is enormous.
It's enormous. So you can have you know, neurotypical people

(06:45):
that are violent, right, and ne typical people who are
completely passive, just like in Asdre's. It's a huge spectrum.
So no, I don't, but it would be interesting to
have that.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah, to your point, Courtney, I'm going to look in
to that because I agree. I feel like I've heard
it more often than usual, and so I'd love to
have someone on to maybe help us understand that a
little bit and see why that's coming up more often
in cases.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, so that was really the crux. Listen, the defense
didn't have much to do. They weren't trying to prove
his innocence. He had pled guilty already, so that was
what their strategy was now. The prosecution, meanwhile, they argued
that Tanner Horner that this was a calculated event and

(07:33):
he wasn't just a man reacting to a panicked accident
because if you remember, initially, Tanner Horner had said that
he inadvertently backed over Athena and kind of panicked.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
That was his initial story, which turned out not to
be true. Right. He actually picked her up and said
that he was taking her because she was pretty Yeah,
so it wasn't a panic event, right.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
That's right, And so the jurors, you know, the recordings
we spoke about from the FedEx truck, Tanner Horner had
covered the camera, which in my mind also is calculated.
It's extraordinarily calculated to cover.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
A camera, right.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
But in the audio you hear Athena strand, she's asking
are you a kidnapper? She's saying I want my mama,
and that then is followed by sounds.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
We don't need to get into of the struggle, right,
horrificct It's just it's just horrific. I didn't even you know,
they released you know they were when all this was happening.
During the trial. Of course, I was paying attention, just
like we all were. And you know, they released some
images or one image of Athena in the trunk in

(08:52):
the van and she stort of standing in the hallway
and you can see her face, and I wish I
had never seen that, because it's so you're sad. You
just want to reach in and grab her and help
and rescue her and get her out of there. Like,
just seeing that alone for me was hard. I just
cannot imagine her family, her mom and dad, her stepmom,

(09:15):
and the jury having I just it's so sad. I
don't know what else to say.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, if you're just joining us, this is true crime tonight,
and we are discussing the fact that FedEx driver Tanner Horner,
he has been sentenced to death for the abduction and
murder of seven year old Athenis Strand. Right, So that
is what we're talking about, and it really hits you.

(09:40):
One more thing on the prosecution's case. And this was
a very significant blow. So the prosecution called a surprise
rebuttal witness witnesses including a cousin, and the allegations were
that Tanner Horner had committed sexual abuse years prior to
the murder.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Right, this was a room for him, right, because he
also sexually assaulted a little Athena, And so this was
a pattern showing like, you know, there's really no hope here.
This guy's not going to get better.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Exactly exactly, And there was a few things about the
legal standards in Texas because every state is so different,
and under Texas law, this jury had to unanimously make
the decision to impose the death penalty, which I think
is interesting because we were just discussing. I believe it
was Florida that need eight that's right, that's right, So

(10:36):
you need an unanimous okay, h exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
So there's that. And then.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Also what the what the defense tried to use to
bar the death penalty was citing the Eighth Amendment protection
for the intellectually disabled.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Sure, but that as well, the judge ruled.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
That it didn't meet that legal threshold to prevent the execute.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Right, if you have autism, spectrum disorder, or and bipolar disorder,
you're not intellectually disabled, right, you can be, You certainly can.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I do believe it would probably depend on where you
basically fall on the spectrum.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Right.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Interesting, And also per the Texas law of the case,
it's now going to enter a mandatory appeal process. And
during today's appearance in court, Tanner order Corner remained totally
expressionless as the death sentence was read, and when he
was asked about appealing his sentence, he simply said, yes,

(11:41):
so that appeal is to come, although I can't even
imagine what the grounds for appeal would be.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, he played guilty. The phase, the sentencing phase that
we watched seemed like all the processes were followed thorly
and he had really good counsel. I can't imagine what
they would but it's an automatic thing, right if you're
if the state is going to kill somebody, that there
has to be protection in place, and this is part

(12:08):
of that action. It has to play out, it has
to play.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Out, and the defense we don't need to go into
too much detail, but we did lay out more of
their case in a previous episode when they did, and
they really did. I will say Tanner Horner excusing nothing
of what we're talking about, but his entire life seemed

(12:32):
like a string of tragedies.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
It did.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Is the truth that they did not have the best childhood.
He didn't have a great basically upbringing, right, he had
a series of events that were pretty horrifying, pretty horrifying,
they were horrifying.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
They were so all that to say, the defense did
put on as solid the case as I can imagine
I agree, And then the victim impact statements.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Oh the family, yeah, mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
So, as is common in cases, the victims' family members
get to speak, and boy did Athena Strand's family do so.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And it was harrowing. Athena Strand's mother.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
She spoke of the agony of having to buy burial
clothes for her seven year old.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
You know, I'm I'm not a fan of the death penalty,
but hearing that makes me question myself, right, it makes
me question myself on the you know, this guy, if
anybody does deserve it, it's this guy what he did.
But I still, you know, wonder wouldn't like, wouldn't him

(13:49):
be suffering in prison be so much better? But then
I'm like, well, would he really be suffering eating Cheetos
and top ramen I don't know.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
And everything else? Yeah, I like you bought it. I
struggled with this, Like, initially I'm opposed to the death penalty.
I'm not opposed, but I am a waivers. But in
this particular case, this one with the details of a
child that a seven year old, even to your earlier
point seeing her in that video, this is where it
was like, maybe the death penalty is not so warranted

(14:20):
in this case. But I hate saying that because I
hate saying it too. Yeah, I knowing against how I
normally feel. But it's a tough one.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
If it's any if it gives the family any modicum
of peace, if that's the right word, then sure, so
be it.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
The problem, though, is that they're going to have to
go through all these appeals. It's going to take decades. Yeah, yeah,
Oh there's many problems. Yeah many, whether there's many, there's
many bumps in the roads. Let us that's right too,
And I they have lost strength. I do too. Well.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Athenis Strand's uncle, Elijah Strand, he was really powered full
and he honestly he dismissed Tanner Corner's significance entirely, and
he stated, yeah, you did not just take a life,
you destroyed a family.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
You are nothing. You are a footnote. And Athenis story, Oh,
I love that. That reminds me of a lot of
things that you know, they said to Brian Coberger too,
you're nothing.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I love that dressing down of these guys. I love
it very power, right, that power, Yeah, you're nothing. Well.
Coming up next, the latest in the David case, the
forensics evidence prosecutor say ties him to Celestrie of Fernandez,
and forensics expert Joseph Dot Morgan breaks it all down,
Keep it right here True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we
talk true crime all the time. Later in the show,
we're going to be talking about the death of an
American influencer abroad. Authorities say it's likely suicide, but there
are questions from the family. But right now, we are
so thrilled to be joined by forensic death and investigator

(16:18):
and host of the hit podcast Body Bags, professor Joseph
Scott Morgan.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Hello, my friend Scott.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
With you guys. Wow, it's a week past already.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I know I feel like this for me.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
Yeah, I'll look forward to this snide every week. So
it's so good to be with you all. Happy yeah,
happy secret tomorrow. That's right?

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yes, Well, I think what do you think? Should we
hop right in with the talkback? I'm down, let's do it.

Speaker 7 (16:46):
Hi, this is Holly from Kentucky. A thought about Solis
murder religiedly by David. This was such a cold and
calculated crime with the grooming the sexual abuse, the murder,
the disposal of the body, his lack of emphasy egocentric behavior.
I really think he's a psychopath, and I don't think
this is his first rodeo, especially with the CC material discoverment.

(17:08):
Has there been any mention of previous underage victims yet?

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Thank you, love y'all, Ollie from Kentucky, what a good question.
Not yet. We haven't heard of any other victims, you know,
and they met when both of them were pretty young, right,
David was what like seventeen or something and she was eleven.

Speaker 6 (17:27):
So I don't.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I don't know if there's any other victims. Well, I don't,
but I think Joseph Scott Morgan might have a more.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
So I've heard, yeah, I've heard there. Yeah, I've heard
that there are actually at least oh singularly at this point, Okay,
one person that an underaged person that oh, no, Elly
County prosecutor has spoken with, and of course that all
remained under sealed. Now that's there's a lot of stuff

(17:55):
floating around out there. But that's that's a piece of
information I've come into, uh, and it's been mentioned on
several platforms, and I think the important thing is if
if that is the case, that goes to validation of behavior,
you know, when you're trying to establish you know, uh
form and function here and I think, you know one

(18:17):
of the big questions. You know, I salute the the
caller because you know that's you know, when you have
people that engage in this kind of behavior, it's generally
not a one off and it's something that's been going
on for some time right And to her point as well,

(18:42):
when you see what you know, I hear a lot
of people nowadays and it's been going on for quite
an orb of years. We hear the term objectification as
it applies to women many times. If you want a
real example of ejectication, you've taken a child, female child,
and you've ripped her to shrip and that's because she

(19:04):
is an object that she in the true sense of
the term, and she has been ripped to shreds here
and literally that really goes to psychopathology here. I think
not making excuses, I'm just saying I think it's important
that everywhere this individual may have touched, now geographically, any

(19:24):
kind of you know how you can pay go backstage
and go a handshake, you know, with a star. Tom
said that happen right. You know, if I were an investigator,
I would shake every bush out there to try to
find on this.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
I guarantee you, I guarantee you they are. And for
those who aren't familiar David Anthony Burke, He's known as
David in the music world. He was a rising pop singer.
He was charged in April with the capital murder and
mutilation of fourteen year old, again, fourteen years old, Celeste
Reevas Hernandez, and the prosecutors are less edge that David

(20:01):
killed celest back in April to prevent her April of
twenty twenty five, I should say, to prevent her from
exposing their illegal relationship because again she's fourteen years old
and he's an adult. That would damage his music career,
basically putting an end to it. Celeste Reevas Hernandez's dismembered

(20:21):
remains were discovered in September of twenty twenty five inside
the front trunk of David's Tesla while he was on
tour his world tour. Newly surfaced audio, by the Way,
shows that David was making references to a smell inside
his home in the months after the alleged murders. I

(20:43):
believe the videos was from around July or June or July,
so a few months after the murder of Celeste. In
the video shows David apologizing to friends about a horrible
smell in his home after he, of course murdered and
dismembered Celeste in that same home, Allegedly. In the clip,

(21:04):
he's hanging out with his friends Neo and Sicanna, and
at one point, by the way, Neo is the one
that was rest arrested for not showing up for the
grand jury that they had to go get right.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
So that's Neo and his and Scana is a female friend.
And at one point David interrupts, interrupts them in his
stream to apologize for the way his bathroom smells, claiming
it was because he had just used it a couple
hours prior.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
And it's important to remember from the brief that was
filed by the state the people of California versus David
Anthony Burke, that for several weeks, this is what it says,
for several weeks or possibly months, the defendant left the
victim's body to decompose inside his tesla. He lied to friends,

(21:53):
business associates, and others who noticed the strong smell of
decay in and around his home and the vehicle. And
we don't know if the brief and the prosecutors are
talking about that specific instance, but it does raise a
lot of questions.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
What do you think, Joseph, it does?

Speaker 5 (22:11):
And I've heard that, I've heard the seen the video,
i heard the audio of it, and again, look, I'll
just you know, let the chips fall where they may.
What I'm about to say, one of the things I
took away from that in light of in light of
what we think we know, at least at this point,

(22:32):
is that there was a comparison being drawn between the
smell of human feces and this precious shoals remain right,
And I'll leave it at that. I mean, that's if
that's what this was. It is one of the cruelest things.

(22:56):
I think that and I've heard a lot of bad
things over the years. It's one of the most cruel
things I've ever heard. And you know, and of course
he's alleged to have done all this. He has not
been convicted of anything. But if you're asking, just when
you hear that raw video and you hear what's being

(23:17):
said there. It is one of the most disrespectful things
that in disrespect does it that word is insufficient through
the task.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
From my perspective, well, you're totally right, and any human
with a conscience would agree with you, Joseph, But it
also seems to fall in line with what David the singer,
is being alleged of. And by the way, if you're
just joining us, this is true crime. Tonight, we have
forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan with us and we are

(23:49):
talking about new forensics in the case of fourteen year
old Celestrevus Hernandez and the singer David Burke is being
charged with her murder. Now, investigator I wanted to bring
this up because last time you were on, Joseph, what
we knew was that there was some blue plastic and

(24:11):
we didn't know more and it was maybe that it.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Was the cover of a saw.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Well, now it's known that investigators found a blue inflatable
pool in David Burke's garage that contained blood that provided
a one hundred DNA match to the victim, Sleas Riebus Hernandez,
and suggests it was used for a containment zone.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
For dismemberment.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
Yeah, and a criminalist has actually taking a look at
these fibers or these remnant not fiber, so it's remnant
that was retrieved, retrieved at autopsy. And that's critical, right
because just from if you just look at the chemical
underpinning of this blue plastic, all right, you can have

(25:01):
tie backs there. And also if there's any kind of
fragmentation where you can take pieces and we actually do
this in trace evidence, We'll take little pieces. We even
do this with paper and kind of it's like jigsaw puzzle.
You kind of put them back together, so we don't
really know what state it's in. And forgive me if
I've already said this, I can't remember if I said

(25:21):
this last week, but I'd like to make one point
about this instrument. When you're thinking about chainsaw. With a chainsaw,
you're talking about top end, and for folks that have
never been around a chainsaw, it has actually a button
trigger on the handle where you're holding it. You hold

(25:42):
it in the forward grip and then you hold it
by the rear handle and you pull the trigger up.
So just imagine if you engage an average gas power
chainsaw at full speed, that rolls it in thousand RPMs,

(26:02):
so that's revolutions per minute, So that on that bar,
on the chain bar, on the chainsaw bar, it'll go
around fifteen thousand times in one minute. That's wide open.
And when chainsaw does not work like a regular saw
chainsaw if anyone out there is ever cut, would if

(26:23):
you've ever used just like you know, a carpenter saw
or anything like that, you know, what does it generate?
Generates dust? Right, well, just imagine that if you're talking
about soft tissue, you're talking about bone, talking about blood.
The volume that would be generated by this instrument is
something that many people cannot fathom. I've worked cases involving

(26:46):
this particular type of instrument. It's it's one of the
most over the top grotesque things that you can possibly
fathom when it comes to this behavior that go to
not just the bits of plastic, but it also goes
to where was all of this deposited in the space?

(27:06):
Because it correct me if I'm wrong, y'all. I distinctly
remember saying that this was perpetrated in the garage.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's my understanding.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
Yea, yeah, correct. And you know we've had conversations with
with Steve, Steve Stephen, Yeah, great guy.

Speaker 8 (27:25):
It was.

Speaker 5 (27:27):
Yeah, he's just a fantastic fellow. And he's really put
his shoulder to the stone, as we said, with his case.
And you know, he had he had noted that he
didn't see anything in the garage. The problem is is
that it particulates so much, one of these instruments does,
and it puts things you might can do a general

(27:50):
wipe down in an area. That doesn't necessarily mean that
you're going to get everything. As a matter of fact,
I would submit to you it's probably an empirical impossibility
to get everything. And they're saying that they found DNA.
So as this develops in there's discovery and all those
sorts of things. When this stuff comes to light, we'll
find out where they're retrieving the same because one of
the things that Steve had said is that he never

(28:12):
saw them really freeze the scene as a true crimes.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
That's what he That's what he said.

Speaker 5 (28:16):
I might be misremembering, is that what he said? You know,
because I thought that that's what I heard him say.
So yeah, yeah, that's that's on the table. But I
just want, you know, all of our friends out there
to understand that that's that's what has been chosen in
order to dispose of this child's.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Body, right, And you know, there's since we've last spoken,
there's also been an update from the medical Examiner. It's
very interesting. I really wanted to talk to you about it.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (28:45):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
So you know, initially it was determined that celest was
not pregnant in the year prior to her death, up
until her death. Now the medical Examiner has updated that
to say undetermined or indeterminate. What does that mean?

Speaker 5 (29:02):
I found it, you know. I thought that maybe there
had been some kind of circumstantial evidence, maybe an interview
that had been conducted or something that led back to
the police speaking this into the ear of the of
the of the corner. And I don't mean that in
some kind of sinister way they were being made aware
of it. Okay. However, as you know, and I always

(29:25):
bang the you know, I relied more on science. Everybody
in my field, does you know what does it demonstrate?
And so when the autopsy is done, and I'll keep
this as sanitized as possible, but when when an autopsy
is done, the reproduct, reproductive organs are going to be examined. Okay,

(29:47):
and so the primary spots you're looking for with the
unaided eye relative to pregnancy is going to be the uterus.
And one of the things that's that you know in
a uterus is that if pregnant, there'll be kind of
a swelling that takes place, and of course that's completely
dependent upon gestational age and all those sort of things.

(30:09):
Then there's hormonally one of the things that we can do.
I thought, you know, with testing, however, I would submit
that the sample is so degraded that it's probably not possible.
So that leaves us to this. And one area that
I found the autopsy report to be greatly lacking in

(30:29):
and it's public knowledge, and I can go look at it.
I urge everybody to go look at it. It's there
are three three bullet points under reproduction, okay. And I
got to tell you what this looks like when I
read it. It's absent a lot of information. It looks

(30:53):
like something that we refer to and that doctors do
where they will say they're speaking into a microphone, they're
saying standard dictation, standard dictation, and they're just plugging that
data in. They're not going into a real in depth
discussion about the tissue that they're examining right before them.

(31:14):
That's a bit disappointing.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Well, listen, say the case.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
We'll continue unfolding, and thank you for shedding forensic light
on it, Joseph.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Later in the show, we're going to be talking about
a new forensic foundation that has been started by the
family of one of the University of Idaho student murders,
murdered by Brian Coberger. But first we got a couple
talkbacks by about a story that we talked about last
night in regarding to Lacy Peterson. And we're so lucky
that Joseph is here because he's the perfect one to

(31:45):
answer this question. We've got a couple of these talkbacks.
We're going to play one of them right now.

Speaker 9 (31:50):
Hey Lee from Ontario, Canada, So quick question. I'm listening
to Monday night's episode and this might be more for Joseph.
But in the stop in case, they're asking to retest
the duct tape. But wasn't the duck tape exposed to water?
And he still wouldn't lengthy water exposure affect whatever DNA

(32:12):
was left behind, no matter how sticky. Thanks so much, have.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
A nice day, great, what a clever question.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
I think that was from Lee from Ontario, so thank
you for that, and before Joseph answers it if you
don't quite remember, back in two thousand and two, Lacy Peterson,
she was eight months pregnant and she disappeared from her
home on Christmas Eve. Ultimately, her husband, Scott Peterson, was
convicted of first degree murder of both his wife Lacy

(32:43):
Peterson and their unborn son, Connor. And we were talking
about it because Scott Peterson's defense team is trying to
appeal his conviction.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
So that is the story.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
And the duct tape that was on Lacy Peterson, yes,
was in water.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
So Joseph, what do we what can we say?

Speaker 5 (33:07):
Saltwater environments for arguably some of the most austere environments
that you can imagine. And so yeah, to Lee's pointing
us an excellent question. Ly it's problematic. And of course
the longer you're there it is, yeah, yeah, And the

(33:28):
longer that goes the higher the degrading, the higher level
of degrading goes on. Because you know DNA and itself,
you know, we always talk about being able to retrieve
it and those sort of things, and we've made huge elites,
But you know, it's really, really, really hard to fight
against some other nature. And and when you think about

(33:54):
the tape itself, the question you have to ask is,
even if there is a space where you suspect that
there could be sample, you would have to ask yourself
where it would have to be folded over and protected
and I mean really protected. Well, how many things do
you really know that have been submerged in San Francisco

(34:17):
Bay of all places as well, which is very very
it's a rough environment. If you're there, how do you
prevent it from seeping in even to the adhesive area.
And just because there's adhesive still remaining, doesn't mean it
hasn't been affected, you know, by the salt water itself.

(34:38):
And everything is not just salt water you're dealing with.
It's everything else that's contained therein in that environment, in
that aquatic environment. So look, I mean, if you feel froggy,
jump you know, so as I'm concerned, go ahead, and
you know, test it, you know, test waters if the
state is so compelled to do it, if you can't

(34:59):
compel them to do it, And that way, that question
is has been asked and it has been answered, right,
and you know, some of the mystery disappears if you
have the ability to do it. But I guess answer
we're talking about Scott Peterson is because Scott Peterson is
so in the news and has been for years and years,

(35:20):
and from the State of California's perspective, I can tell
you there are a lot of other cases out there
that would love to have their DNA retested, And there
are people sitting in prisons around the country right now
that need to have their DNA retesting amen. And so
it's kind of the way I look at it. You know,
you've got to be really judicious about this tool.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Well, they're going to test that DNA and so we'll see.
Well they're going to test that fifteen inch piece of
doc tape at least, so they'll find out if there's
DNA on it. But thank you for that talkback. That
was really really good one. And let's go to another
talkback right now.

Speaker 6 (35:56):
Hey, team, this is Alicia from Atlanta. Could you look
into the death of influencer Ashley Robinson, also known as
Ashley Janney. She traveled to Zanzibar for a birthday and
engagement trip, but after a reported argument with her fiance
hotel staff separated them into different rooms. Hours later, she
was found unresponsive and her death ruled a suicide. Her
family's questioned that story, and I think this case needs

(36:18):
a little more attention. Thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Wow, I don't know anything about this one.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Well I don't, But what I do know is that
Alicia from Atlanta, next time I'm out for a day
or two, I would please ask you to be in
my co host seat because yes, she leaves right, it
is perfectly encapsulated.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
So yep, very succeaining. Thank you got all the details
in perfect all of the details.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
So again, what we're talking about American influencer Ashley Robinson and.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Everything that Alisha just said.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
So what is happening and what is forensically at like
up for questioning is kind of where she was found
and what happened. So after the she had an argument
with her fiance, a man named Joseph McCann. They switched rooms,

(37:11):
as mentioned, and then later the night that the hotel
members split them up. That night, a hotel worker reportedly
found Ashley Robinson unresponsive in a closet with a belt
around her neck, and she then was transported to a

(37:31):
local hospital. Problematic is the next Well that in and
of itself, But the next day the fiance called Ashley
Robinson's mother and claimed that Ashley did something to herself
but was stable and ultimately she was found deceased. So

(37:53):
one more detail before we throw it to you, Joseph.
So the fiancee, Joseph McCann. He aims that he and
security found the decease Ashley Robinson hung on a door,
which again goes against the police reports stating a hotel
walker discovered her in a closet. What do you make

(38:14):
of that, because that's a big discrepancy.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
Yeah, it certainly is. I guess my first question from
you know, kind of a design of the space is
where exactly was the door? Are we talking about a
hotel door, bathroom door? Are we talking about the closet door?
You know, where she was allegedly found in one iteration

(38:41):
of this and that's a big question. Also if you're
suspended from something, So when we think about suspension hangings,
there's several categories that you can go with. You have
what are called total suspension, and that's classically what people
think about with a hanging, where an individual is literally

(39:03):
free hanging in the air, feet or not touching the ground.
And people would really be shocked to know that there
are hangings where the individuals are not in fact suspended.
It's called partial suspension. I've had them on their seated,
I've had them on their knees, I've had them leaned

(39:25):
forward on their knees, and so there are a variety
of different postures you can find individuals in. And the
real trouble with an investigation like this is that you
have to get you have to get the data very
very quickly. You know who I'd like to talk to.

(39:46):
I'd like to talk about whoever the emergency team was
that responded to the scene. What did they see when
they got there. I would speak to them extensively. Couple
that with what the hospital er staff saw the emergency clinic.
Because you're looking for if you have marks on the neck,

(40:07):
we have very specific parameters that we look for. If
we're talking about a ligature, which a belt can be
a ligature, Okay, and you want to know the position
of it. I've talked about this with Epstein. Does it
run parallel to the shoulders or does it go straight up?
We've talked We've had a discussion about tinting feature where

(40:29):
it goes, you know, acutely up behind the ears and
you get a pup tint. You know, that comes to
an apex where the nod is was the thing? Was
the ligature still attached when they arrived there? That is,
not only was it still affixed to her neck, or
did they remove the entire apparatus leaving that in place,

(40:52):
or did they take her out of the apparatus. So
people think that hanging deaths are kind of straightforward, they're not.
As a matter of fact, They're one of the most
complex types of deaths that we have to investigate because
most of them that we work that are hangings are
associated with one taking one's own life, and so we

(41:12):
don't really have witnesses to it. Right. But the big
question here because people, you know, the family obviously feels
compelled about this, they feel intrigued over it. They have
questions as well. They should, particularly when you have an individual,
one of our citizens, that is in a foreign country.

(41:35):
And this is this has been a theme throughout this year.
All we have to do is look back recently to Spain, right,
and you know, we have all of these cases over there.
I question you know how things were handled in the
initial response, and did they go back and do a
retroactive scene investigation? That means that we actually go back
to scenes where bodies are no longer there and we
go back and retroactively look at the site. And that's

(41:58):
something that you have to do. Did they do that?
So that's going to be a big part.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
To that, Joseph, and I was just going to jump
in real quick. I did a real quick search. There
is some conflicting info about how she was found. I'm
reading that she was found inside a closet with a
belt around her neck, but her fiance initially suggested she
was found hung on a door. So there's a little,

(42:24):
you know, information that's coming out that's a little different.
But my quick question for you is if you forensically,
can you tell the difference if someone hung themselves or
if someone did it? Like, are there little their clues
or any info that points to whether someone else might
have been involved with it?

Speaker 5 (42:42):
Yeah, So just so that I have this straight, is it?
Are we can we differentiate between whether this was self
inflicted or if somebody did it and perhaps staged it
to look like someone els Yes, we can, And again
that goes back to the ligature mark on the neck
mostly angle right like the angle. Yeah, you're absolutely your

(43:03):
spot on body. It's it's kind of an abnormal. I mean,
you can have somebody that had can stand behind a
seated person and lifts straight up like this. That is
the exception or not the norm. I personally never handled
a case like that. I know that they exist most
of the time. With literature strangulation, it's kind of a

(43:24):
garat groat. It's pronounced a variety of different ways where
it's from the rear and you pull back and it
creates this kind of with a belt, it would be
what's referred to as biliner, bil linear and circumferential, which
means it goes all the way around the neck with
hanging suspension. Whether it's partial or totally suspended, it's going

(43:45):
to go up in the air and it's not going
to be circumferential. It'll come to a point you'll it'll
kind of acutely end up behind the ears. You won't
have it you point any higher. So, and there are
staging cases like this where people well you know, do
harm to individuals and then go back and hang the
body afterwards, which is, you know, and that does happen?

(44:08):
And we we actually teach classes, week long classes on
stage deaths. It's a big part of what we do,
and it's real nuance.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
I can imagine the nuance.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
I'll have to ask one more quick question, really quick.
I know forensic expert, but I would imagine if they
had separated the two, would you not expect to find
any of his DNA in that room? Like would that
be a first clue that it would after he left?

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Though?

Speaker 4 (44:37):
Right? Well, from our report it sounds like they separated
and he was removed, so oh, that's right, His his
DNA would be the room. No, I just answered my
own question, so never mind.

Speaker 5 (44:49):
I'd want to know about the DNA on the belt.
Whose belt is it? Okay? Is was it some other
did they find it? You know? And whose DNA on
that belt? And and where? You know, we talk about
DNA being found on an object, it's also very important
to understand where the DNA is found on an object, Okay.

(45:12):
I want to know if if the DNA is adjacent
end of the belt in the buckle where it could
be pulled up like in this transtance, okay, or where
it's been wrapped around. You have to really look at it,
not touch it, but look at it and think, Okay,
what areas do I want to target because it's so fragile,
So we do widespread samplings. But if you find a
concentration in one particular area, it's not going to be

(45:35):
a definitive answer, but it's going to put you on
the right investigative track. And it's one of those little
boxes we like to tick. So we always have to
keep that in context with items. It's not just somebody
else's DNA present, it's where is it present? Because that's
more important.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
They Oh, I'm thinking the bio may I'm.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
Just trying to, you know, be all things to all people.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Men good.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
There's going to be a lot with this, So many
questions in this case, and what we do know is
that Ashley Robinson's body has since been returned to New Jersey.
That happened on April twenty fourth, and her family has
commissioned a private autopsy. They're going to cross reference with
the Tanzanian findings, and what they are seeking to determine
is if the strangulation and suffocation matches a self harm

(46:24):
narrative or points to homicide.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Just as you were laying out, We're going to have
to continue to follow this one because this one, like
Lynette Hooker, another one of our citizens going to another
country and you know, vanishing in indoor dying.

Speaker 5 (46:39):
Well.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Coming up next, we have a new foundation to talk
to about the Idaho student murderers. Keep it right here,
True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we
talk true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
I'm Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
I'm here as always with Body Move In and we
are joined by forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, host of
the hit podcast Bodybags. We have a lot to get
to and we want to start with the talkback.

Speaker 10 (47:17):
Hey, this is Rachel calling from Iowa. Just got to
get a couple things off my chest. First of all,
flee scoopianis Chica to body. Sorry I'm late to join
the party. Number two, I just got done listening to
Joseph Scott Morgan and I think it would be wonderful
to have him and Cec be on the show together.
And three, Buddy, you are absolutely right switch your allergy
medicine every couple of years because your body does adapt.

(47:39):
I'm doing the same thing right now, Love you guys.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
By miracle. It's a miracle in all geezers sweeping the nation,
sweeping the nation. And I am here for the CC
Moore and Joseph Scott Morgan Collab, I am here for it.
Did did those two on a show Emmy? It would
win an Emmy. I'm convinced. I'm convinced.

Speaker 5 (48:00):
CC's a very nice person. I've been in her space
and have met her before, but have never been on
air with her. Curiously, but yeah, yeah, I think I
think a lot of CC, and she's at the top
of her game. She truly is. She's car really carved
out an area for herself that you know, let's face
the guys, ten years ago didn't really exist. I submit

(48:23):
to what Ceci has done didn't exist five years ago,
that's right. So I think that she's really pioneered this
area of you know, forensic genealogy here and really kind
of laying it out to those of us that are
not as well versed in these areas people, And that's
that's that's the really important piece to all of it.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Well, her work and you know, others that do her
kind of work have brought closure to tons of cases,
including the Idaho student murderers in Moscow, Idaho. In the
summer of twenty twenty five, student Brian Coberger he pled
guilty to the twenty twenty two murders of the University

(49:07):
of Idaho students Kaylee Consalvas, Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin, and
Xana Cronodle. He was sentenced to life in prison without
the possibility of parole, and Kaylee Consalvas's family have channeled
their grief into a new initiative, the Kaylee Consalves Foundation.
It's operating under the name this gives me the chills.

(49:29):
Murder has a name. I mean, that is so appropriate. Right.
We often talk about true crime. Obviously we're True crime show,
and all of our victims have names. Right, murder has
a name. I just thought that was it gives me
the chills. So this, this foundation was created to provide
closure to families of victims who cases have gone cold

(49:52):
or lack the necessary resources for advanced testing. And it's
bridging the gap between you know, tradition, police work and
cutting edge sciences, much like CC Moore does. Right, this
is kind in you too, Joseph, Right, this is the
things that you guys are pioneering, and you know, we're
so often so oftentimes, once law enforcement runs DNA through

(50:16):
CODIS right, which which is the National Criminal Database, if
there's no match funding for more expensive testing, dries up, right,
Because if they're not, if the person who committed the
murder is not already in CODIS as a criminal, there's
not going to be a match. They're not going to
pop up, and then what do you do right? Right?

(50:38):
So this is hoping to bridge that gap, and I'm
so so excited for it. The Foundation is going to
be partnering with labs across the United States to provide
a direct path for law enforcement to submit cases that
would otherwise remain stagnant. It's fantastic, It's wonderful, Joseph.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
What do you think something like this can actually do
for cases who are that are languishing.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
It's amazing, it really is. And so many people, you know,
I've been doing true crime for a long long time now,
been in the true crime world, and I'll have so
many people you know, that will approach me at conferences
and you know, talk to me and they'll say, you know,
I want to do what you do or want to
do what you did, and I'll say, please don't. There's

(51:25):
a price to be paid for that, But a lot
of people are really interested in being proactive. You realize
how much of the stimulus comes into people's brains relative
to open cases that are out there, and there's a
lot of frustration. We have had a bounty. Now, I
think that we've been blessed with in this area. So
you know, if I could go back to that young

(51:46):
man started as a death investigator all those years ago
and tell him what was going to happen several decades later,
he wouldn't believe me, because it's space age. It's something
that we've never had before. And we can avail ourselves
of this. And the beauty of this is that with
these charitable organizations, and it's not just homicides, it's all

(52:10):
of the unknown debt that are out there. I do
a lot of work with the authorm and you know,
one of the things that David Middleman and Kristen their
goal is to clear out the entire name of this list.
And yeah, and when I think about the NamUs list,
it's always stuck in my brain like a big infection
that needs to be cleaned out. Because you've got And

(52:31):
that's just the ones that are on the list. There
are little corners all over this country guys I dig
this that have boxes of bones in their offices and
they don't know what to do with them. And those
bones have a name, and it might not be a
homicide victim. It's just somebody that has never been identified,

(52:52):
you know. And I think about all the graves that
I stood over over the years in Potter's Field, whether
it was in New Orleans, Atlanta, where we were burying
the unknown dead, and what this can the door that
this opens up to people, to families that I don't
know that you ever really truly get closure on death.

(53:13):
It does haunt you. It haunts everybody. It's a remembrance,
but it gives you answers at the end of the
day where you always had those huge questions whatever happened,
whatever happened to my sister, or whatever happened to you,
to my daughter, or where the case might be. And
not to go down too deep of a rabbit hole here,

(53:33):
but real quick observation. The first year I ever went
to crime con many many years ago, was that I
think it was in Nashville. I was working at Nancy
Grace's table, and she was there and she was doing autographs.
But guys, I look back down the line and just
let this sink in just for a second. I look

(53:53):
down back to line, and the line went as far
as I can see and turned a corner and my
wife and I were standing there just meeting people. They
knew my voice, you know, hey, you're just god, Yeah
I am. And there were people in line weeping that
were holding files. One lady stood out to me. She
came up to me and she said, can you please

(54:15):
help me? And my sister was raped and murdered in
Dallas and before and the cops never did anything with it.
These are all the files. You're not going to go
to some other con conference like that and have that
kind of connection. People are aching for this, and this
is the one thing for me that has really come
out of the true crime world where it's brought attention

(54:35):
to the dead and brought attention to all those that
have remained nameless and all those perpetrators out there. I
hope there are a lot of people sweating and when
they go to sleep, they think that they always thought
they'd get away with Guess what, brother, there's a new
down there's a new day of downing, and we're in
a completely different world now.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
That's right, and this foundation might help with that.

Speaker 5 (54:57):
Yeah, and I saluted me too.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
May eighth, the foundation's official website is going to launch,
allowing the public to start donating directly, and so we
will definitely give you that website. And then Saturday is
May ninth, okay, and May ninth is important because it's
Kayla Jade Day and it's celebrated every year in Idaho
and nationwide. And basically what it is is they want
you to be like Kaylee. They want you to celebrate

(55:22):
the things that you love. If you love going surfing,
you need to go surfing on May ninth. If you love,
you know, snuggling with your your dogs, they want you
to snuggle with your dogs. They want you to do
more of the things you love because you never know
when your last moment is going to be. It's called
Kayla Jade Dalia Day, and it's in it's in Idaho officially,
but you know, obviously they want everybody to celebrate it worldwide.

(55:45):
And again, this event is serves as a memorial for
one of the victims, Kaylee Consolvus and a fund ranger
to kick start the foundation's work. And I know all
of us at here at True Crime Tonight definitely support that.
So I'm very happy for that. Is this your Crime Tonight.
We're on iHeartRadio. We're talking to crime all the time.
We were right talking just now about this new foundation

(56:06):
that Come Solves Family is going to be launching. But Portney,
don't we have another one? Well, we have another talk
back that is very relevant.

Speaker 11 (56:17):
Yes, hi, ladies, this is Liz from Washington, originally from Michigan.
I have two reasons I'm calling. The first is regarding
the Boys Town in Tennessee. I was wondering if anybody
has any series, if we think it could be or
if they're possibly at all the Skelton Boys, who were
three brothers who went missing in Michigan a few years ago.
Eventually they were just declared dead and the father was

(56:38):
charged with the after several years, but the body's sell
have not been found. And second of all, in regards
to last night's episode, my two dogs who are named
after Michigan bords. Their names are Annie Arburn and Henrik Zetterbart.
He goes by Hanks. They both definitely watched TV. Hope
you are having a great night, feel Betterson.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
But go Blue, Liz, I'm from Michigan as well. Go
Blue amazing and are right. Yeah, I know about these
I know about these kids that were found in Tennessee.
The Memphis Police Department. They're currently conducting a complex forensic
investigation into the remains of those three children, in ages

(57:16):
three to seven. They were discovered this year, and forensic
analysis is suggesting that the remains had been hidden in
a drainage system for several years. Yet no cause of
death has been established yet, investigators do believe adults were
deliberately involved in the desks or the disappearance because there's
no matching Amber alerts or missing reports on file. The

(57:40):
case has now transitioned to forensic genealogy and national DNA
database searches to identify the victims and locate their potential relatives.
But as far as them being from Michigan, I don't know.
I mean, I don't know that that's even been talked about. Yeah,
and the Skelton brothers who raised that one.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
It happened back in twenty ten and three brothers, Andrew,
Alexander and Hannah Skelton. They were only between the ages
of five and nine while they.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Were in the care. So this is this is the
case that was referred to.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
While they were in the care of their father, John Skelton,
they disappeared and the father it's he basically lied about
their whereabouts in wild ways and he was convicted of
unlawful imprisonment in twenty eleven after providing these conflicting stories

(58:39):
and was sentenced to fifteen years in prison. But despite
huge searches, the boys have never been located. I mean, Joseph, any,
could these potentially be related?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Interesting?

Speaker 5 (58:53):
Well, I think that you have to maintain you have
to keep this on the braidar beauty would I hate
to say beauty? I guess that's inappropriate. But the good
thing about the Skelton brothers is the fact that we
do have a DNA sample because I think the mother

(59:14):
has chimed in in the last few in the wake
of the Memphis case. And of course you have other
extended family members that you might could get sample from.
And you guys were just mentioning about forensic genetic genealogy
and you want to do a comparison. But if we
could step back just for a second. First off, this

(59:35):
is quite a geographic gulf that we're talking about between
Michigan and the Memphis area. It's actually south, it's actually
it's as close. This area is as close to the
northern Mississippi border as it is to downtown to Bill
Street right in downtown, so you're out. It's not really

(59:56):
in the middle of nowhere. People try to paint it
as rural. There are high ways around there, So you
think about, you know, who would have opportunity and access
and who would have knowledge of this area because it's
a very specific area. How are you going to know
those train pipes are there, and you know, this recessed area,
all these sort of things. You would have to have
specific knowledge of the topography, accessibility. That's why in my

(01:00:20):
mind I keep thinking, I keep thinking that it's some
kind of local manifestation or somebody that has lived in
that area that had an awareness of the specific area
that's out of sight. And again, the real discouraging part
of this is that out of you know, what would

(01:00:42):
be in excess of six hundred bone in total if
you had the intact skeletons, we're only at fourteen fourteen
skeletal elements, but yet out of that they've been able
to determine they have three separate bodies, and we know
of two skulls and we don't know what the other
elements are. We don't so I wouldn't be paid. It's

(01:01:06):
what I'm saying is be patient because you don't know
how much of these samples are going to be viable.
I'm hoping that with all it's and by the way,
all it's going to take this one I submit to you,
and I'm really hoping that the skulls are intact to
the point where I'm hoping they're teeth where we can
you know, extract or they can extract a molar, and

(01:01:29):
if not in the interior of the skull, there are
specific areas we can go to there. And I think
that this is something that could be probably hammered out
pretty quickly once they get that if the sample is viable.
And that's the big key to this. This is a
huge mystery. It really is, and it needs to be solved.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
It really does on so many levels. Well, Joseph, I
can't believe we're at that time, but it's time to
say thank you, and it's time for you to go
and have you know your your Margarita for Syncra demo.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
Well, you know it's time. It's time for me to
get in bed.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Well, anybody who wants more of Joseph Scott Morgan all
of us do? You can find his forensic deep dives
as body Bags. It's the podcast and you can find
them on Instagram YouTube.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
Really subscribe to that YouTube channel. Please, I beg you, please,
please please.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Well, thank you, Joseph and everybody else. Stick around.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
We've got your questions, your theories and what you want
us to cover.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Next True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight
on iHeartRadio. We talk true crime all the time. I'm
body moving and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and listen,
we are just going to get right to it. Courtney,

(01:02:57):
did you hear about this mysterious sale boat they're looking
for in the Bahamas? Okay? I saw a headline. I
know nothing, tell me everything. Okay, Well, I don't know
a lot either. I don't know a lot either, but
we're just going to talk right.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
So apparently the Coast Guard they're making an appeal to
the public, all right. They released a photo and it
centers around this second sail boat, this mysterious sailboat that
had been reportedly like moored right near the Hooker's yacht
in Aunt Pat's Bay down in the Bahamas. Again, Lynnette

(01:03:33):
Hooker's missing, right and she was sailing the Bahamas with
her her husband, Brian Hooker, who said she basically fell
off their dinghy traveling to their yacht and in these
like rough seas and high winds and when she failed,
when she fell off the dinghy, she had the key

(01:03:54):
to the boat attached to her, so he was basically
stranded and couldn't go rescue her. And it's so Lynette
is still missing right. Well, now the coastguard is looking
for this mysterious sailboat.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Oh interesting, and is it because is it in a
place where they might have been like a witness or something.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Or they haven't really said, they're just wondering. The coastguard is,
you know, basically saying that they're trying to identify or
contact its owner in hopes that they might have seen
or hurt something relevant around the time Lynette disappeared. Again,
she's the woman that's missing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
They're from Michigan. I just want to tell the listeners
they're from Michigan and they have a sailboat and they
were basically living on the sailboat, right, and she goes missing.
She falls off the dinghy, according to her husband, Brian,
and the daughter of Lynette doesn't buy it. She doesn't
buy the story that her mom fell off the dinghy.

(01:04:59):
She opines that, you know, they've had this rough history.
There's you know, allegations that have been made by her
daughter that you know, things were not really on the
up and up. And when you when you combine that
with listen, they're living on this little boat, you know,
pressure and whatnot. Did he do something? And again he
was arrested, right, he was arrested, released and I'm getting

(01:05:23):
there and then released right and then and then he
gets released and he says, I'm not leaving the Bahamas
until I find my wife Lynette. Right the next day
he goes home to the United States because his mam
is sick. Right, That's where we are. And now the
United States Coast Guard, not the Bohemian authorities, the United

(01:05:45):
States Coast Guard is appealing for public information about the sailboat.
And they've they've they've got a photo of it and
it looks they do and it looks pretty distinct. Listen,
I don't know sailboats like for nothing, but it looks
pretty distinct. It's got like this interesting behind, like that
has this really interesting arch in the bathroom. Oh so

(01:06:07):
if you were in the Bahamas, go look and see
if that's your boat and let them know if you're
doing so.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
The Coast Guard, where where do we know where the
boat is? Exactly? What did you say or did we say?
Where it was said?

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
They said it was reportedly moored, so it was like
parked right right near the Hooker's yacht in Aunt Pat's
Bay in the Bahamas.

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
In the behind. So my question then became, I didn't
realize the US Coast Guard would be involved in I
guess now it all tracks they would be in that
region as well. So it's a case that carries over
to a US citizen. So right, probably why very interesting? Right? Well?

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
I hope they find information, I mean, and I hope
they find Lynette Hooker.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
It's just god, it's just interesting to me that they're
even looking for the boat that I kind of think
maybe they don't buy his story.

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
Yeah, that's what I'm that's the vibe.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
I'm picking the right or maybe they're wondering. Maybe let's
give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're wondering
if they heard him calling her name, you know what
I mean, like maybe something like that too. It could
be right, let's give him the benefit of the doubt
because he does maintain his innocence.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Right mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
So yeah, go look it up, do a little Google search.
If you're in the Bahamas and you have and you
have a boat, go see right away.

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
And also being optimistic, there is maybe there's a world
where he did. He said to officials, I didn't I
recall seeing a boat. Maybe you should look into this.
If he's helping me the case. I'm just trying to
be positive on both sides.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
But I appreciate that. I think that's entirely possible. Who knows.
Lynette is still missing and it's been a long time.
Been a month now, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
It's been I think a month and a day, yes,
since April fourth. Well sending good thoughts. Yeah, let's grab
a talk back, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
This is Clint from Apple Belly.

Speaker 12 (01:08:00):
So do you think some its people or most of
these people found out something or we're given a ultimatum
saying that you've got to go and take your life
or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:11):
Why aren't they acted like they're.

Speaker 12 (01:08:13):
Going to go take their life and the government made
them disappear, and then that way doesn't cause a huge
thing with family members just wondering by.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Okay, interesting, and listen, there's been a lot of reporting
on the recent surge regarding I'm sure many of you
are seeing headlines for missing and dead scientists, and it
has become a flashpoint for national security debates. There's federal investigations,
there's more online speculation than I personally care to invest

(01:08:47):
my attention to. But this widely reported story, it centers
on eleven to thirteen individuals, and they range from high
ranking retired military officials to active researchers, all of whom
have died or vanished under varying circumstances.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
So is it possible? Is it possible? And the talkback said,
is it possible that they were given some sort of
ultimatum that threatened their lives in some way or maybe
their families lives that they had to disappear in some way,
And listen, anything's possible at this point.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
Yeah, at this point, I don't believe just any theory.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
I would believe literally anything at this point. But I mean,
there's just no evidence of anything. That's the issue right
in the absence of evidence, really, there's just all these
little theories, and I think Adam has one.

Speaker 13 (01:09:47):
I do have a theory.

Speaker 8 (01:09:49):
I want to be the residence Stephanie for the night because.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
She's coming back very soon by the way.

Speaker 8 (01:09:58):
Yeah, So, I mean, I think our talk back makes
a good point. I mean, it is it is possible
that that could have happened. I mean, it's worth noting
that some of the cases that I find the most interesting,
they're doing research on pretty advanced science sciences like Monica Reza,

(01:10:18):
who is studying she developed a patent actually for a
new metal metal alloy, which we've discussed on the show before,
and so these are very like these are sensitive things
that some of these scientists are working on, which is
worth noting. But it caught my eye saw an article

(01:10:40):
last week that the LA mag put out that they
talked with Yes and they they talked with Monica Reza's
family and they're expressing some suspicion about what's going on,
and they're saying that it doesn't quite add up in
their minds what happened with Monica, And so I want

(01:11:01):
to point out a couple of things about Monicaresa just quickly.

Speaker 13 (01:11:07):
Where So she did.

Speaker 8 (01:11:08):
Develop this uh, this metal alloy, and she co patent
it with a partner of hers named Dallas Hardwick, who
passed away from natural causes in twenty fourteen. So Monicareso
was the sole patent holder for this metal alloy. And
this metal alloy is used in rockets. It's uh, it

(01:11:33):
can withstand extreme heat, and so it's a it's a
groundbak breaking invention in rocket rocket science. Right, So that's
just an interesting thing to note. I don't know exactly, you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Know, I know where, but it's interesting too. I read
that article that that you're talking about from Laura Conlin, right, yes,
and it's a great article. I think every brics you
could read it. And it mentions in there too that
Monica Rezza's family said that the FBI and the authorities
have not reached out to them, right, right.

Speaker 8 (01:12:10):
And so Congress has they've opened a formal inquiry into
these scientists. And so I mean, you know, maybe I'm
naive or whatever, some you're not. Sometimes you hear these
things and It's like, how have they not reached out
to the family.

Speaker 13 (01:12:25):
You think that'd mean the first thing they do.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
I would think so too. I would be looking into
obviously the patent, right. This patent was for this metal
alloy that you're that you were speaking of that her
and her partner basically invented, right, and it combined a
bunch of different metals to create this new super alloy
that was like super high resistant to heat in high
oxygen environments. And then it also was had the upside

(01:12:51):
of being incredibly strong. So it's a it's an incredibly
valuable metal. That would be, you know, the basis for rockets, right.
And if if it were me, i'd be looking into
that patent and who like he she had a partner
with a patent and he's got family too, right, And

(01:13:12):
so when you pass away Now, I don't know what
happens when you're missing, but when you pass away, it
becomes part of your state. That is interesting.

Speaker 13 (01:13:21):
Yeah, I wonder if the family in flux right now
or what.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Right, or somebody trying to buy it, and I would
be looking at that and somebody trying to get that patent.
That's what I would.

Speaker 4 (01:13:32):
Drinking at can I just ask, like, just so we're playing,
I'm understanding the connection or that you're making, is that
maybe something suspicious happened to her because whatever she was
developing is is it could ruin other industries or it
could have an impact.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
It would be valuable to it would be valuable to
maybe other governments to.

Speaker 4 (01:13:55):
Have Oh now I see something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
It was I don't know, but her disappearance is very weird.

Speaker 13 (01:14:02):
It's very strange.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
She was hiking. She was hiking. She was with I believe,
a woman from her yoga class and a man. The
woman they start going up, the woman stops and it's
very strenuous hike. But Monica Reza and the man make
it up to the top and then come back down
and as they're coming back down, he turns around and

(01:14:24):
she's just gone. She's just gone. And they found her hat.
I believe I.

Speaker 13 (01:14:31):
Found her hat a ways away from.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
The ways away, and her phone. Her phone's like an
older phone, so it didn't like track the way modern
phones would. And so but they're saying that had she
made it down the hill, her phone would have connected
to you know, cell service, and they would have been
able to track her but because they don't believe the
phone ever made it down, they can't track her with

(01:14:56):
the phone. She's gone. She's literally vanished.

Speaker 13 (01:15:00):
And yeah, yeah, vanished. And in the case that.

Speaker 8 (01:15:05):
I mean she is physically there, you know, something happened
to her, you know, I mean they scoured the area
from what I understand, looking for her dead and didn't
find her.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
So Steve Fisher, who we just was just on the show,
was one of the private investigators that worked that case well,
and and he's very thorough, I mean he and he
doesn't give up, I mean, he really doesn't. Yeah. And
he does say though that he doesn't think that these
cases are connected. He didn't say they're not right, but
he doesn't think they are. He doesn't think that there's

(01:15:39):
some sort of conspiracy with her case. But I don't
know why.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Although what I do think is that if the family
members are speaking out and noting that FBI has not
contacted them and they are having concerns and things aren't
adding up, then it should be in her case should
be instigated of what happened. So that's very curious that
the FBI did not.

Speaker 8 (01:16:06):
Yeah, and I think that they're like these these are
brilliant people, you know, a lot of them, and it's
I think that sometimes it is maybe a disservice to
lump all of these scientists under one umbrella because there's
so many different occupations, so many different things that they're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Yeah, but if.

Speaker 8 (01:16:26):
They are in fact going missing and it's unsolved, you know,
with the most respect, you know, I think it's important
to find answers, you know, and it's especially in this
particular case Monica Reza, we don't have answers here.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
And there's no answers. Yeah, And her family said, she's
very careful, like, she's very you know, she's in the yoga,
she's in the nature. Obviously she was hiking, I mean,
she's you know, obviously in the nature of some kind
and that she wasn't she was an experienced hiker. She
was calm, she was courteous, and that they're a narrative
going around that the speculation that she may have like

(01:17:04):
recklessly like run down the trail and like lost, and
her families pushed back on that and saying that she
was just not a risk taker. That's not like something
that she would have done. She was very like followed
the rules, you know, staying within the line, so to speak. Yeah,
and she wouldn't have wandered off the trail intentionally by

(01:17:26):
any stretch of the imagination. And the authorities are saying
that they don't think it was an animal that got
her because there would have been biologicals ah, and they
didn't find it. And then in me she I mean
it's literally vanished real quickly.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
Is there a world where I was just watching some
movie whereas some woman was trying to get information from
the FBI and they said, we have all the info
we need already from the initial reports. Is there possible?
Maybe that's why they're not going to the family. They
have all the early information, just playing absolutely know what happened.

Speaker 8 (01:18:02):
Oh well, due to find out at some point there
there will be an investigation and something, hope.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
So yeah, federal probes are happening.

Speaker 4 (01:18:11):
So that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
We'll continue as there are, you know, more details that
do come out or the cases that should be investigated,
we will do so and in the meantime, keep it
here True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
We are talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney
Armstrong and I am feeling very cozy with my buddy
Boddy move in this evening. We both were yawning, which
is contagious. You never do that either, never, never, And
I just stood up. My problem was I was sitting anyway,
So yeah, we had a little contagious I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
Was thinking of I was thinking of your angela cast role.
I was, and I was like thinking of sitting down,
putting on a good show and eating your and I
got cozy and I started yawning. Yeah no, and I'm
that is exactly my.

Speaker 4 (01:19:13):
That's on my agenda. That and the margarita. The margarita
I'm thinking about.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
Well listen if you if you've missed any part of
the show. Always you can catch us on the podcast
and give us a call if you're if you're around,
if you're cozy, if you are doing or planned super
late and to do something so good to my out
eight eight three to one crime, let us know, and
you can always get with us. On socials, we're at

(01:19:41):
True Crime Tonight's show on TikTok and Instagram and True
Crime Tonight on Facebook.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Let's grab a talk.

Speaker 14 (01:19:49):
Hey, y'all, I'm listening to yesterday's episode and I literally
just had to pause it and back it up two
or three times to make sure I've heard you correctly.
That the I've been think finding Google for her case.
She was breastfeeding her three year old child. So my
little boy felt and three. My other child is under

(01:20:12):
a year old. I am breastfeeding that one, and I
did breastfeed my other child, but I couldn't imagine breastfeeding
him right now, and he's about the stern three. Uh,
not judging, just question do yeah, I say care of y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Holly girl, sip by me because I am too. Come
over here and sit by me, Holly, I am too.
I'm judging, though, I'm telling you right now, I'm judging.
I just think it's weird. I think you know it's
it's weird.

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
It's culturally specific. And listen, when I was in you know,
a thousand years well thirteen years ago, when I was
in this world, and you're reading all about and what's
your feet and your baby? You literally care about nothing else.
And you know, worldwide, a lot of people do they
can feed until five years old. If you are in

(01:21:08):
a very poor place and do not have a lot
of access to food.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
That is a that is what you do. Well, let
me tell you something right now, I'm not judging those women,
absolutely not. You do what you need to do to
feed your baby one hundred percent right every day of
the week. I support that one million percent. This woman
lives in a in a city in the United States
of America.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
I think it's weird she does.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
And you know, the average I haven't looked in a while,
but the average age, I'm going to.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Guess is younger for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:21:40):
But I yea.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
By the way, I wouldn't be saying this about somebody
who wasn't accused of murdering her children, her other children.
And then she's saying, oh, I need out, I need
to get out to feed my living children. Oh my god,
you tried to kill your other ones, but you're your frestige.

Speaker 4 (01:21:54):
It's just weird.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
It's just weird. I don't I'm sorry, Yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 4 (01:21:59):
I'm with you that The real reason that I think
maybe you and some of us have issues is because
she's using that more as an excuse, because in no
way are we shaming anyone out there home might be breastfeeding,
you know, you know, there might be a whole world
of helpless reasons that they want to do that and
health reasons. So I applaud them for that common but.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
It's not do you guys happen to remember just brought
up when Mayambi Alec was really big in this topic.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
I feel like some did come up.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
Yeah, it's blossom.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
Then she was on the bank Bank and then she
was hosting Jeopardy. What does she say to well, no,
she was under She was in the news about this
for quite a bit. So there's a picture of her
and she's she's a real attachment parenting person, which which
is a whole vibe. You have your kid attached to
you all the time, and everything is child let including

(01:23:00):
child lead weaning, breastfeeding.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
So and she there was a photo of her on
the subway and she was nursing her son who was
three and either also he was big or she was
small or a combination.

Speaker 2 (01:23:17):
But it okay, do you remember, taha?

Speaker 4 (01:23:20):
I remember it and I had to look it up
really quickly. What happened was she was breastfeeding her son
who was around three to four years old, and she
was very open about practicing attachment parenting. She even wrote
a book about it called beyond the sling. But I
do recall I think the photo when it came out,
the child even looked big for a three year old.

(01:23:41):
So there was a lot of controversy that people said, wow,
the child looks like he could, you know, make his
own lunch. Didn't that, But it just looked like it
was really a large child. And she defended everything and
I shouldn't say that because it sounds like it. But
she pushed back saying, there's no fix, right age to stop. Okay,

(01:24:01):
So it was a lot of controversy behind it. But again,
and that's why I'm saying, whatever someone chooses, you know,
who am I to say?

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
How this sounds like a very loving mother who wants
the best for her child, you know, and is doing
this child led weaning. I actually kind of did that
kind of dig that. Actually the other woman we're talking
about is accused of killing her two daughters.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
Right, killing one daughter, almost killing the other daughter, and
collateral damage.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
I mean it's a little different victim.

Speaker 4 (01:24:36):
My boyfriend, Yeah, a couple. She's in her she's in
her fifties, like she's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Fifty three, She's I just turned fifty three on my birthday.
Can you imagine me on the subway.

Speaker 4 (01:24:50):
But I don't want to laugh at this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
I mean, I don't know, it's just I yeah, I listen.
I really believe women listen and anyone can do it.
And you can feed your child and keep that child
happy and you know, not let them go hungry. I'm
a million percent for it. Those ladies just bizarre to me. Yeah,
that's fair.

Speaker 4 (01:25:17):
We'll end on that note and go to another talk pack.

Speaker 14 (01:25:20):
Hey all, some thoughts on the discussion around social media.
Some things I think we need to remember. The Internet
of today is not the Internet of thirty some years ago.
It's not just dial up internet anymore. When the Internet
first came out, it was a nice tool for research, education,
and it still is. But I think the content on
the Internet has expanded widely. Unfortunately, there's a lot of

(01:25:44):
malicious use going on on the internet out and social media.
At this point, the cat is out of the bag.
We know now that social media is dangerous. It is
not healthy for you. It is especially not good for
your children. So those of us who joined way back
in the day, I think we have an excuse. We
didn't know it was dangerous. But now today, moving forward,

(01:26:04):
there's no excuse. Don't let your kids.

Speaker 11 (01:26:06):
Go on it.

Speaker 14 (01:26:07):
You yourself get off. But I deleted all social media
I think, almost two years ago, and my life is
so much better without it. Loved the discussion. Let's cute
it going.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
I'm here for it. I agree a million percent.

Speaker 4 (01:26:22):
I agree. Yeah, yeah, And I would think of all
the people you you've seen the changes because you're very
into the internet and everything else. Like I go back
to my world of like AOL dial around, yeah, and
remember they would mail you. Oh yes, I was all excited,
Oh this is a new update.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
But now and then I got earth Link and I
got it was like a modem. Like without AOL, I
didn't need AOL anymore. I thought I was like stuff right,
But no, I totally agree. I listen. I've made my
stance pretty clear. I don't have children. It's easy for
me to say, but if I did, I would not
have them on the internet, on social media at least.

(01:27:02):
But again, I don't have kids. It's so easy for
me to say that. And what do you think about
the second point?

Speaker 3 (01:27:07):
And this is so I mean, the range is so
wide for social media consumption, how it fits into your life? Like,
what would you think if someone said, hey, you should
get you know, get off of social media, how could
that feel.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
I feel fine, that'd be kind. Yeah, I would listen.
I would be fine with it. I would one hundred
percent be fine with I would do it. I would
do it today. Maybe interesting, Yes, I might have had
a misconception. I thought that you like fell asleep to
watch tiktoks or was ado. But that doesn't mean I

(01:27:42):
need That doesn't mean I need to be on it
like posting videos and making videos and things like that.
Like I don't need to do that. I don't, you know,
I normally just like read Twitter. I don't like post
on it and stuff. So could I stop going on
there and going on the tiktoks and I want? Yeah
I could, Yeah, I do that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:05):
Yeah. I have already started to pull away from it,
like I found myself going down the rabbit hole too
much and you know, going on social media and things
of that line. Could I live without like the Internet
and everything else? I don't think I could. I use
it for so many tools for research and everything else.
I will say I'm not enjoying, you know, TikTok and

(01:28:25):
some of the other ones because there's so many AI
videos that are thrown in.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Now I can't stand it.

Speaker 4 (01:28:30):
They fool me and they're disturbed. They bothered me because
I used to enjoy it, and now I question what's real.
So AI has really changed things for me where I
don't enjoy it the same way.

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
Well, you know, and we've talked about how Stephanie is
always sending bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
She's like, is this real or AI? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
And and steph also had mentioned a new KT Studios project,
AI Made Me Die.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Oh, that's production and it is.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
Uh, the project will cover an absolute huge range of
different things. It's not just crimes, it's understanding how does
it impact us physically, the data.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
Centers, it's unders all the data centers. Yeah, you know,
it's that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
It's it's people having full romantic relationships, which is happening psychosis. Yes, yeah,
but like there one in five adolescence don't do not
quote me on this, but one in five adolescence has
a straight romantic relationship with an AI chat thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Now, are you kidding me? It's no, there were like,
there's just a range.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
So I'm you know what I've heard about project, And
there was a.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
Pop by us The Daily that I think you and
I listened to you where they reported on that there
was a woman who said she was how she had
a long term romantic relationship with AI. It would speak
to her and she would tell me a poem tonight
and like it was just an I couldn't wrap my
head around it. But then that was I want to say,
that was almost a year ago. But fast forward to now.

(01:30:15):
I have friends who two different friends who use it
for like therapy type questions like yes should I handle yeah?
Oh yes to me, I find that bizarre, but it
and they said it's great. It gives them the perfect
advice on you know, I had this conflict with a friend.
Here are all the details, how should I move forward?
It tells them what to do.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
Isn't this Do they follow the advice.

Speaker 4 (01:30:40):
They do to Both of them have said yes, Courtney,
what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
People also in lou like People's Concert, will go and
see an in person doctor or series of doctors. They
will also confirm with AI and dismiss the doctor and
go with AI. This is another thing that is absolent,
that's horrible happening to the detchament interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
I had no idea, I mean I knew that there
was AI psychosis with like believing that AI was real
and it's a real boyfriend or girlfriend, wife, husband, whatever, Yes,
child even, but I didn't know that one in five.
Let's say that's accurate. Adolescents mean kids are having relationships. Yes,

(01:31:27):
it's a reason. I just found it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
There was a recent study and it was done by
researchers that bring them young University and they found yes,
it was It was nearly one in five US adults.
Excuse me, you adult adults. That might sound a little better.
Let me say, with an AI system romantically, and then
I'll throw just one other stat at you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
This blew me out of my chair.

Speaker 3 (01:31:48):
So Replica, which I did not know until digging into
this project, but it's one of the better known apps
people turned to for a AI romance. It signed up
more than thirty five I have a million users launch
you are that number right, and it launched in twenty seventeen.
But there are thirty five million people who have signed up.

Speaker 2 (01:32:11):
Let me ask you something, does this Replica do they specialize?
Is that like there? Uh you know? Focus is these
relationship AIB authors. It's their focus?

Speaker 4 (01:32:24):
Yes, Oh, so mind I have I'm going to ditch
the human and date the AI is.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
I'm gonna sign up Emily. Guys know how it goes.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
But I believe it's interesting and we're just kind of,
you know, digging in and having the experience of talking
to people. But uh, it's it is not the internet.
Back to what you said, it is not the thirty
years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
No pressure, But do you know like any like when's
it going to be released or anything like that?

Speaker 3 (01:32:54):
Yeah? Not, Well we'll do a hard launch of the
actual release DA, but let's just say coming soon and
we are a neck deep in AI.

Speaker 4 (01:33:05):
I am intrigued. Well on that note, well, I look
forward to it and maybe when Stephanie's back will unpack
forward with her together. But in the meantime, do we
have time for one quick fun and let's still talk back.
We can then end on ladies.

Speaker 14 (01:33:20):
I just listened to yesterday and the mentioned saying and
I literally caught myself the other day saying it, and
I was like, where did I get this? When did
I start saying? And now I know where?

Speaker 11 (01:33:33):
I love all that I've.

Speaker 14 (01:33:35):
Aspired since listening to your show, and to continue listening
because I love them all.

Speaker 11 (01:33:39):
Love you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
Oh I say it to myself at the grocery store.
I'll pick up a like cereal box and I'll look
at the price tag. Yeah, I'm like, I find myself
saying it under my breath now, but Courtney does the.

Speaker 4 (01:34:01):
I love it. We're at the end of the show.

Speaker 3 (01:34:04):
Oh my god, here we are. Well listen, what a
pleasant evening we've had. We hope you enjoyed your Synko Demayo.
And tomorrow we have former Family Court judge Michelle Locke
and we're unpacking all kinds of stories. She's fabulous as
have a great night.

Speaker 4 (01:34:21):
Audios, Adios,