May 25, 2023 • 44 mins
Devin and Carolina discuss the television event of a LIFETIME! THE MOMENT OF VINDICATION! When Tom Sandoval and Raquel Leviss get CAUGHT for #Scandoval on the Vanderpump Rules finale. Scheana’s tears. Tom Sandoval’s fake ones. Tom Schwartz’s man eating crocodiles. Ariana’s BOUNDARIES and poise! Where was Lala? The girls cover it all. Plus Devin tells an *international* dating tale.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to your romance. This is Carolina Barlow,
this is Devin Leary. You guys, it happened. To those
of you who don't watch Evander pump Roles, you're probably
relieved if you are a frequent listener to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I barely graduated high school, so we're just lucky I'm
here at all.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It happened. The finale happened.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And when I say the finale, I really mean part
of the finale, because in Bravo Universe, the reunions are
the real finale, and these reunions are necessary. But the
affair between Tom Santaval aka Worn with a Mustache and
Rachel Levis is revealed, Arianna finds out. I unfortunately wanted
to know what exactly they were doing on the FaceTime
(00:57):
video that Arianna found on her phone.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
That is how nosy I am.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I mean, it's pretty obvious, is it not that they
were like both masturbating.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I guess that's that's the only thing it could be.
It's so grass I love too how Tom Santaval was like, yeah,
I usually would delete it, but I was so busy.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
You I know.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Oh shoot, I didn't delete that, yeah, and I feel
bad about that, but I was really busy.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I was painting my nails white.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
The one gift that I was was my god.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I well, first of all, when you just said they're
both jerking off, it made me laugh because I went
to with this restaurant with my friend Molly Landis last
night and there was a photo booth and I was like.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Oh, we have to do the photo booth and she's
like no.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And I was like, we're doing it, like we both
want to do it right, and she's like, no, I
really don't want to and I was like, Okay, we're
doing it because obviously I was thinking about my Instagram
main feed. So we like take these photo booth pictures
and there was a guy standing out the photo booth,
so we like assumed he worked there. And then our
photo what we thought was our photos printed and he
like takes them and I'm like oh, and then he
(02:09):
starts he starts to like step away, and I was like,
oh my god, imagine he takes like our photo booth
pictures and jerks off to them, and then.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
He walked out of the and I go, wait, what
do we do. He's taking them.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
He's taking them, and then Landy Molly land Is like
starts to she like sort of like slowly starts to
walk after him. But I'm like, well, what's even the
game plan? Like this man is like much larger than us,
and like we're gonna be like.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Hey, now you give us our picture, give us our
pictures back, you creepy old man. The pictures are tainted
by now anyway, just the idea that there's like a
creepy guy who has a fetish of like stealing people's
but pictures and jerking off to girls like with their
tongue sticking out, well.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Girl, like a goofy cute face.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
The sign we realized the sign said it actually takes
five to ten minutes to print your photos.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
So he took his.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
But we were like, that's actually a really good prank
to like wait outside and just take someone's photo booths
and then like come back.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
But anyway, it was funny.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Anyway, The point is Raquell and Tom jerked off to
each other. Yeah, so this is what I'll say, Like
Tom gave us everything as a villain.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
That we could ever need, Like he could not be more.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Of a bubbling, it's idiots, narcissists, it's it's it's actually shocking,
like how bad he did at every turn. And I
will tell you, like I have never watched something and
felt so vindicated and so like like justice. Like I
remember there was one time, like this person I worked
(03:38):
with who was like doing a really bad job and
like purposely not doing their job and purposely like avoiding work,
and it was like affecting me, and I thought that
my bosses like didn't see it.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And it was so frustrating.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I was like, Okay, how are they not seeing that
this person is like on Twitter while we're supposed to
be working and like everyone else is like picking up
their slack.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
And then years.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Later I found out that my boss was like, oh yeah, no,
we knew that the whole time, and like of course whatever,
and I was.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Like, oh yes, Like.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I felt so vindicated, and so that's how I felt
watching this whole episode, but tenfold. And also like like
Arianna handled herself. Ariana did not have a she didn't
have a single flawed moment, Like she didn't have she
didn't it was incredible to the level she never got down.
She just like owned him absolutely, like when she devastated
(04:32):
Ariana with her words, I mean Raquel with her words here,
I am like Tom calling her Ariana.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That was so crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Okay, let's go piece by piece, Yeah, okay, piece by
piece Okay, Kelly Clarkson. In the words of Kelly Clarkson,
piece by piece, you abandoned me. Okay, and all hope
and faith in men has abandoned me. So the episode
opens with a fucking true crime esque title where it
says like March some Thing twenty twenty three, New York
(05:02):
and it shows Watch what Happens Live and Raquel saying
that she thinks Sanda Ball is hotter than Schwartz and
Shina being shocked. Then it cuts to confessional Arianna and Tom.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Are we ready to talk about it?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
No?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
They both give their pieces. That's when Tom said his.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Weird thing of like, oh, I normally would have deleted
the evidence of me cheating, but I like completely forgot,
And then I was like so then it cuts to
this weird thing where it was like the Vanderpump music
where it's like sunshine in the streets and I was like.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh it is as usual.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yeah, I was like, are they just like going back
to normal life.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And then you know Andy was in the editing booth
on this one, like Andy, Andy was.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Hanywhere on this one. Yea, Andy was in the closet
while they were filming that insert of Gordo Schwartz humping
a stuffed animal. But then they cut straight to it.
We see Ariana on the couch devastated, talking to her friends.
And by the way, I hope when I get devastated,
but by the way, I already have, and so I
already know this isn't the case. I hope I could
(06:03):
look that stunning. She looked so beautiful, like.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Christy Teakin was on Watch What Happens Live the Night
Like the Night after the finale and said that both
Sheena and Arianna look incredible when they're devastated when.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
They have no makeup on, like just crying puffy, but
like in such a hot way. When I get puffy,
like my pores like are like exploding with oil.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And I'm like, I have to say that I am
a very pretty crier.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And multiple people have told me that.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Someone has told me they got turned on by me
crying once, which bad makes me uncomfortable. It's kind of
a red flag. But I also was kind of into it,
and maybe that's what's wrong with me. No, anyway, so
then we get the I.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Don't give a fuck about Racow. So this is the
thing about Tom. He's such a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Everything he said to Ariana was about him, and actually
everything he said about Raquel he never once said like,
and Raquel's like, actually just so amazing and beautiful, and like,
I just think it was all about I turned forty,
I lost my mojo.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
I felt this. I didn't feel as cool as I used.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
To, right right, And she says that she was like,
you needed someone to like liven you up and pump
you up, and you found a girl who gets her
identity from men.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
And did I relate to that? Yeah? I did? But
would I ever do what she did? No?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I know im No, no, no, I mean we all struggle,
at least. I think it's common to struggle with having
men or relationships as your first priority or you know
me myself, I have given that up for a little bit,
but I know what it's like to put all of
my self worth on how a man feels about me
(07:50):
and not knowing what to do when I.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Don't get that.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So I do know that, but I definitely sympathize with
anyone who has been completely bamboozled by someone like that.
And that would be our our quinn Ariana, and we
are merely her subjects. She says, I regret ever loving you,
(08:15):
and I regret ever sticking up for you. And she
says what broke my heart and I almost started crying
when she was like, I would have followed you anywhere.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
And I would have changed anything about myself and like that,
She's like, I mean, I think all women could really
relate in that moment of like she's like, I gave
up everything, like I was so committed to you, I
went above and beyond for years.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Say She's like, you're pathetic, and I want you to
know that someone who loves you is saying that. I
want you to feel that down to your soul.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
I know. But unfortunately like he won't feel that.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
No, he fake cries, by the way, fake tears this
whole episode. You do not know when real tears come
with this man, and and and they have a flashback
to Kristen Dodi, who prophetic, you know, Goddess Kristin Dowdy,
who says, fine, Ariana, you can have Tom, you know,
get ready to be with the best liar in the world.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And when we go.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Through this episode, there are multiple times where you realize
how much he was covering up cheating and how incredible
he was at it, especially because Ariana went on to
watch What Happens Live after the show, saying that she
would ask for his phone when he went missing for
nights and he would be like, sure here and she
would look through them and like everything seemed legitimate, and
(09:26):
she said, okay, So I'm so sorry to give ahead
just for a moment. When to Sandival goes to Schwartz's
house and is more emotional with Schwartz than he was
with the partner of nine years we cheated on, he says,
I mean, all Ariana had to do was follow me,
and she'd realize it wasn't going to your house. And
even Tom Schwartz, who I'm so sorry, is like the
(09:48):
emotionally one of the stupidest people I've ever seen in
my life. He goes, well, you can't really put that
on her. Like Tom, Sandival is basically blaming Ariana for
being in the dark, for trusting him. So when Ariana
is on Watch What Happens, she looks into the camera
and goes, I did track your location and guess what
you were at Schwartz's.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I know, And then Schwartz tries to pretend like he
didn't know until recently, when like they clearly used his
apartment as like a slam pad, which is fucking disgusting.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Okay, And so again to jump ahead, Schwartz meets up
with Katie, and I know you said that you don't
feel like the girls did a good job except for Shena,
but I do like that. Katie said, why don't you
be on the right side of this for once?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And this is truth, okay, but this is the thing,
Like I feel like she only cared about her side
of it, Like she felt like vindicated that like the
Toms were getting their due. But I felt like she
wasn't like going hard for Ariana and she kind of
was like making things about herself.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I didn't I didn't see that as much. I think
she was in shock, like when she goes over to
the house and is just like no, when she finds
out that Arianna buzzed Raquel's car in by accident because
Tom buzzed her and then they had sex literally outside
of our on his house while.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
She was inside. I mean, the betrayal is.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Endless, it's egregious, it's egregious, and it's gross. Like I
like that, she kind of being like, it's disgusting. I
don't want to hear about your friendship with Raquel. At
one point, she goes, when are you gonna see Raquel next?
And he goes tomorrow, which again you're like, what is
wrong with this man? And any normal human who's not
trying to hurt their partner would be like, I don't know,
I don't know. But she goes and are you guys
(11:24):
going to talk about your amazing connection? And he's like
I don't know, and she's like, why don't you just
say no?
Speaker 4 (11:30):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It's very very, very interesting. And then speaking of Tom Schwartz,
she gets a text from Tom Schwartz that's like, I'm
so sorry, Arianna. I try to tell him to tell
you I don't want to kick him when he's down,
And when she sees him at the end of the episode,
she says something I love, which I've already told friends
to say in instances where they don't want to talk
(11:52):
about something like I think this is amazing advice and
actually an amazing calm way of having a conversation. She
sits down with Schwartz and she says, just FYI, if
you start talking about how hard Tom has had it,
I will get up and leave.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Well, also she says I will. She she has so
much such like strong boundaries. She also said, I will
not be I will not have mutual friends with him,
So I'm no longer your friend.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yes, she's very clear, and it's not vengeful, it's very
it's it's clear, and she does, in Watch What Happens
Live call him a flying monkey. She calls him Tom
one of Tom Sanderval's flying monkeys, which because.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
She's talking about how the whole season there was like
this campaign constructed against her to make her seem like
she's the reason he cheated, which is even more disgusting
than one could imagine. But I loved the double decker
of the episode and then the Watch What Happens Live
because when they were filming the episode, it was like
days two days after she found out, which I think
(12:51):
she had such incredible composure despite that. But I loved
also then getting the version of her where she's like,
I'm healing now.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I move on, I'm with someone else. I mean, do
I support immediately getting with someone else?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
No in this situation, yes.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Even though I've done that a million times.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
But I think that that was like really healing and
fun to watch.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
It was helling.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So I want you to ride for your friend Sheena
here because before we even recorded, Devin was heated about
her love for Sina, who I've had a really hard
time with this season. But I agree she completely showed up.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
What I said after the episode was show up at
my house crying, show up at my house screaming, or
don't show up at my.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
House at all.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I don't want fake people. I don't want people who
can't open up to me. I don't want people who
aren't authentic with their shit. And that's how I felt
about Sheena. It's like she came in messy. She came
in carrying care animal crushes on a bottle of rose,
and she's like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
That's how you show up. That is how you show up.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
And then she confronted Tom and she's like, but you
fucked her best friend, like and then she cried and
was like I will not be your friend anymore because
like I'm so disgusted by this. She just came correct,
she felt her emotions.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
She fucking by the way. She shows the Arian his
house and crying and says.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I think I like pushed her and like I might
have like cut her with my nail like and she's like,
I don't know, I was just so angry, Like honestly, yes,
I want people to choose violence in my defense in
moments like this, and then I want people to try
to explain themselves by saying that their nails are too
long in violence if someone did this to you and
they can't form a fist. She's the Johnny Cochran of
(14:49):
our generation. She her house is the.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Only one that looks like I would want to live
in it, and.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I this is the thing too. It's like, I feel
like we didn't get much from La La this episode,
but I know we're going to.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Get in the reunion.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
I know.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I know in the reunion she's going to like go
after I don't know what happened. I think it was
like the edit, like she must have not been available
or something.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
We needed more James, we need more Lalla. But I
know in the reunion it's going to be like eighty
percent of them.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Okay. When James and Ali came on the screen and
he goes.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Allie, oh I feel so he's like, oh, I feel
so stressed out.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Allie and I was with my friend Leslie. We both
go oh and.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
We are actually a very cute couple.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
We love them mainly because she is called and aloof
and I aim to be more like that. Actually I
think I need I think I need some of that.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I need some of that too. I'm constantly oversharing until.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
James basically being like, I love you, should I propose?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I know I read that book Set Boundaries.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Finep sorry to talk about it again, but like there's
a whole thing about oversharing and that's literally me, and
it's so hard not to do it. Like someone's like,
how'zard day, and I'm like, I actually just read about
how my eating disorder was a rejection of the way
I was raised in womanhood and I didn't want to
become a woman yet, so I starved myself told like
a boy. Any questions, So that's me dating.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I'm like, and they're like how at Starbucks? BENI or Okay,
I realized something though recently I have so much baggage
that it is hard for me not to overshare. Literally
I was getting and they were like, oh wait, you
played the banjo in high school. Why And I was
like because like I brought up the banjo somehow, and
(16:29):
I was like, yeah, I know. Beth Jacobs is like
laughing somewhere in front of the pod, is like she's
so happy, so trying to call in and I was like, yeah,
I don't know, and she was like when'd you Where
did you learn that?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I was like in rehab for an eating disorder.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And then same person last night was like how old
were you when you stopped drinking? And I was like twenty.
And then she was like, and what happened with this
car accident? I was like, okay, I've I've been through
the wringer. Okay, I'll admit some things have happened, some
things have transpired. And I have some luggage, not back luggage.
I have a little cart that I carry like a
bell hop.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Well I think that's preferable, though, is what I'm saying
to someone who doesn't share, Like I want people's baggage.
I want people to open up and I want to
receive what I give, Like I want people to be
like cool, my childhood trauma is actually like this. And
if they don't, like they're Katie Maloney and they're a drag.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Oh okay, I feel like Katie Maloney slander. Can I
can only listen? I someone pointed out recently, I was
first of all, vander pump Rolls fans are everywhere and
in all shapes and sizes, and I love finding them
in the wild. And I was talking to someone at
work the other day and they were talking about how
they think Katie's on benzos because she looks like a
little sleepy and she's been slurring a little bit.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
She's also like always drinking so much, and like, no,
she's for sure has a problem.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yeah, so that's tough.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It's not easy.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But I would have a drinking problem if I was
married to Schwartz for four years.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I know.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Also obviously like Tom and r Keller koke heads, but
Tom Sworts also I think is a coke head because
he in some confessionals, especially this one, because this was
like the rushed confessional where they're like, oh, let's get
the gang back together to talk about the affair.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
He has like red around his nostrils and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Let's get the gang together to talk about the affair.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
By the way, when he's like, uh, like, I just
have a lot going on.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
There's like man eating crocodiles in Florida.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Now, I Meanamar and Morris made that amazing country song.
I love her so she's perfect. She's so perfect. She's
the kind of person we should all aspire to be,
Like we.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Should all be an eighties Mercedes.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We are off topic.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
She Anda's confrontation of Sandoval is really what the people need. Again,
We'll get more from Lalla, we will get more from James,
maybe more from Katie Maloney if she wakes up.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Wait, we glossed over. We were just so in favor of.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
James that we forgot to talk about this was James
gave us what we needed too, which is like the
tension and adrenaline was so intense, and then we have
this moment of comic relief where he's like, I'm gonna
call her well and he's like, you've done diddly fucked
yourself over for a forty year old stinky cock, and
it was just like we need.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
This dying laughing, but also like what is up with Raquel?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Like what like we need I need a psychologist to
diagnose Raquel, Like what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Like she answers the phone and she's like, hey, yeah,
I know, I don't know, And I'm like, why did
you even fucking answer the phone?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
No, she's on there's something going on mentally.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I do believe. I think that she has a personality disorder.
And I don't know what you wanted. It is one yeah,
but when she's in her confessional and they're like why
did you do this, she's smiling like I'm I like
sex with someone I loved and I always wanted to
see what that was like. Like she's kind of giddy,
(19:49):
even when he comes to her house.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
She's really so excited. She's always to.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Me, I would be like, I'm trying to think about
what country to move to and like where to start
my new life like off the grid, which I guess
it's almost like it hasn't really hit her how people
are viewing her.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
But yeah, she is pretty again, giddy.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
They're like trying not to fuck in that scene and
like he's like, I can't kiss you, Like they're so
into each other, and then we get that title that
says Raquela was not seen or heard from after this scene,
and it's like, I guess she's in fucking mirror ball
or whatever, Like she's in a treatment center. But arian
heard the rumor that she's pregnant. Yeah, I don't believe it,
(20:35):
but I have heard it.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Same, I'm not convinced it would be wild though. It
would be like when Elizabeth Holmes got pregnant to try
to evase jail time of age jail time. I was like, ease,
I was gonna let it slide, and I thought, you
know what, our listeners deserve better.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
They deserve English, don't.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
You mean Lizzie Holmes? She goes by Lizzie.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Now, so Raquel is gonna start going by Rocky and
she's like, I'm just barefoot and pregnant in the desert.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Actually Rocky is cute.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Well, I'm I cannot wait until that fucking reunion.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Also, want to talk about Sheena again for a moment,
all right, go ahead. So Sina says something that I
think is very profound, because he is continuously this whole time,
the whole episode, talking about how how hard it would
be to break up with Arianna, and everyone is like,
don't be a coward and break up, like break up
with her, leave, don't fuck her best friend and she
and he says, she said she was going to kill herself,
(21:33):
and Sina says, so then you call her mom, you
call her brother, you have them come out here, you
gather around her friends, and you let us us pick
up the pieces like.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
We're doing now.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
And it's really really profound because it's basically like, yeah,
you're not the the option isn't okay, then I'll be
dishonest and cheat on like someone who suffers from depression
and is mentally unwell.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I know.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And also I loved that reminds me of something I
loved that Arianna said to talk in the opening when
he's like, every time I try to apologize to you,
you just like get.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Angry, as if what in what world would that not happen?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And she let me be angry and you still have
to apologize, Like it's like, yes, feelings are uncomfortable, life
is uncomfortable, and you live and you still have to
do shit. You still have to do what you said
you were going to do. You still have to show up.
And this is the thing too, is like I feel
like with Tom's whole thing. It's like he basically was
(22:27):
like yeah, and then like I was in a long
term relationship and it like wasn't as sexy and exciting
as it was in the begin and that was devastating
to me.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's like, no, that's actually fucking life.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And you show up anyway, and you do what you
say you were going to do, and you stop taking
shots for more than five days so that you can
inseminate a frozen embryo, and that's life, bitch.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I really think when she said I was ride or
die for you of you know, the nation felt that.
And I know you and I have both been in
relationships where it's like, no, I was ride or die
ever you and I really feel like both you and
I have been waiting for that in the reverse. And
I want to talk about christ and Dowdy showing up
(23:11):
in her Adidas flip flops and doing you know, the
Witches of West Hollywood spell work with her. And one
of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen is Ariana
writing down for something that she no longer wants in
her life. She writes, unrequited loyalty.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Wow, it was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I thought that was that was like more.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, exactly like you have been.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I have been giving unrequited loyalty in my life when
people don't necessarily have that for me.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I just don't know, like, where are the men who
are capable of that?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Truly?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Where are the men are out there? I think they're
out there. I think it's gonna be hard, not gonna lie.
I don't think they're out A lot of them are
out there, but I think there are good men out there.
Just like you were talking about how your landlord actually
turned out to be really nice, I think that there
are a few good landlords out there, and there are
a few good men out there, and it's of course
on us to go hunting the bow and arrow.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
If if you are.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
A loyal, call this number. If you are a loyal,
If you're a loyal.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Just please go into my DMS. And I know it's
not gonna happen, but whatever. It's like, what am I
supposed to do? I can't date. I try to date.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
It doesn't work. I try to not date. I've never
actually tried that, but I don't think it would work.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And I try to date, it doesn't work. I try
not to date, do I no.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
No, I don't, but I'm just like, I guess I
just have to be alone and work through my fucking trauma.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Well, you know that we are two sides of a
coin here.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I have been choosing to be alone and working on
my trauma for about five years, and a part of
that was in a relationship, and a part of that
was not you have been adventurous lately. And I think
that that is really profound. I think that it's easy
to be hard on yourself when you're adventurous, and I'd
(25:03):
rather be hard on myself for being adventurous than what
I currently am, which is hard on myself for not
being adventurous.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well, I think there's like a middle ground, and I
also think it's like it's just.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
There's no such thing as a middle ground on anything
in my life.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Okay, well, this is what I'll say.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I had a bit of a ninety day fiance moment.
I will not give a lot of details, but I
will say that I traveled to visit someone who I've
like met a few times and who I had some
previous chemistry with. But really the problem is, and this
(25:41):
is like what I'm learning about in therapy and what
I'm trying to like practice in my life. So basically,
I have a core wound from childhood that made me feel.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
That is it okay if I lie down for this
just kidding.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I was like, oh my god, what no, this is
It will be hard for me to say without getting emotional,
but like, I have a core wound from childhood that
makes me feel like I'm not someone who's like worth
getting to know, and that has plagued me My entire
life is like this feeling that I'm not worthy and
also like when someone does get to know me, they
(26:19):
would reject me. And so I have one part of
me that feels like devastating loneliness and another part of
me that like is constantly trying to reject that by
like filling some sort of void or like trying to
prove to myself that I am worthy, or trying to
like escape my feelings. Like it's just like this constant
back and forth that I'm trying to now learn how
(26:40):
to integrate. So basically what I have to do is
like learn how to take care of myself. I've never
felt taken care of because of this like core wound thing,
Like I've never felt like I'm okay and so now
I'm trying to learn how to, in moments where I
don't feel okay, take care of myself and actually get
to know myself and so that I can make because
(27:01):
in order to make decisions to take care of myself,
I have to like know myself.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And know what I need.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
So I'm like learning. I'm like trying to journal and
like feel my body.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Like that's something I've literally never done, is like feel
in my body. Why do I want to do this? Okay,
perfect example. I didn't analyze my feelings before this situation.
I didn't pause and sit with myself and think, why
am I really doing this?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
People ask me.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
So basically I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to
travel to go visit this man that I like, don't
really know that well because I think there might be
a connection.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Have been this continue People like.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Questioned that as as they should.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I also recently got out of like a relationship that
truly devastated me, And when people question that, I said.
I even said at one point to a friend, I
was like, listen, like, I know some people have to
be alone to get over things, and I know some
people like that's what's good for them. But for me,
I need to be with someone, like I know, if
I had a boyfriend, it would like just fix things
(28:03):
and then I would feel more stable, which is like.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
What, like how old am I?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Because that's the way I felt since I was like
in high school as Carolina.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Know.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Was like when we met, I was like, I just
need a boyfriend and everything will be okay. So that's
kind of like the feeling I was having. And the
texting with this person was kind of like there's like
it felt like kind of awkward and weird, but I
was like.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
No, no, it's fine. It's like once we've been we
get in person, it'll be fine.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And the long story short is when we got together
in person, not only did I like not feel chemistry,
but it just kind of like all it all like
fell into place where I was like literally I'm like
in the car with this person. I'm like wait, I'm
like so far away from home, like kind of how
(28:47):
did I end up here?
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like? Why am I here? What's happening? I miss Cookie?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I don't feel I felt like I was like at
Sleepway Camp, like when you're like wait.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I like don't know, wait, I need my mom.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Literally, I was like I like don't know anyone, like
when I was at sleep Boy camp, but I remember
feeling like I don't know anyone here well enough to
tell them that I'm actually like freaking.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
The fuck out. And that's how I felt.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Like.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I was like, I'm with this person I don't know
that well and I'm freaking the fuck out, and I
feel like I can't tell him. And I also like
had a lot of feelings come up about how like
I'm really not over my last relationship, Like I really
was in love with someone and connected with someone in
a way that I like haven't with anyone else before,
(29:32):
and like felt truly seen by someone and all this stuff,
and then that person like didn't love me enough to
be with me, and that really fucking hurts. And so
it was like not having chemistry with this person was
reminding me how much how much chemistry I had with
my most recent ex and it was just like, oh
my god, whatever, it just was so much. And then
(29:57):
basically I first, this is what I want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
So like then I.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I knew almost immediately that I was like, I actually
like can't be here and I like need to leave.
But I kept telling myself I'm like, okay, give it
more of a chance, like give it the night and
see how you feel tomorrow, like and but my gut
feeling from the beginning was actually from just texting with
this person, was like we don't have chemistry and maybe
this isn't a good idea, and I didn't listen to that.
And then that first night, I was kind of like
(30:30):
my gut feeling was like this is weird and we're
not connecting. And it also was like I felt responsible,
like I like owed him connecting. But I also felt
like there was a couple of moments where I was like,
this sounds weird, but it's like I was like interacting
with like a store employee.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Or like this woman at a restaurant we were at,
and I was.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Like, I'm like like being funny and charming and these
people are like getting it and this guy, like I
just felt like he didn't get me, like he.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Wasn't like laughing at my jokes.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And I was like, wait, I'm like funny and charming
and you're like not even realizing how great I am.
But for some reason I feel guilty about that, Like
why So then the next day I wake up, I
look at so I have like a rain camera set
up so I can watch Cookie at home. I like
started watching footage of him and started like sobbing, crying whatever.
(31:19):
So basically I I whatever, I'm like, I book a hotel.
I immediately felt like so much relief once I like
booked a hotel and like changed.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
My travel plans.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
But then like I had to tell this person that
I was leaving, and I did, Like it was like
at first it was first it was like I was
so scared to say it. So we like go get
coffee and I'm like not saying anything, and then like
we were like walking around, I'm like just fucking say it.
Just fucking like I had so much adrenaline. I couldn't
(31:54):
even drink the coffee. My hand was like shaking, and
I was like, oh wow, it's like really nice here,
it's a nice day. And then I was like, Okay,
here's the deal, and he was really nice about it,
but he also was like, oh, like maybe we can
still spend the day together and whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
It was just like I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It was it was so hard for me to just
be like no, I'm good, I'm just gonna leave, thank you.
And then after I left, I felt so much guilt
and I was like really struggling with that, Like I
was like, I feel so guilty, like I'm respect and
then I was like, wait, you know what all I
did was go above and beyond basically to like travel
to this person. I gave it literally everything I could
(32:33):
and there wasn't a connection.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
That's not my fault. But there's like this.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Narrative of it's like the woman's responsibility, like his emotions
or my responsibility. It's not like he took a risk
by getting together with me. I took a risk by
getting together with him. There wasn't chemistry in my experience,
and I wasn't ready for a connection because of what
(32:57):
I just went through and that's it.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
But for some reason, I feel like it was my
fault and like why did I do this to this person?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
It's like I didn't do anything except try and I
also learned like what I was really hard on myself,
like I'm like why did I come here, and like
why did I waste this time? Why did I waste
this other person's time? But in the end, it's like
I did learn something from it, which is I'm really
not ready to connect with someone after my last breakup. Like,
and I really am like a raw nerve from all
(33:25):
this therapy I'm doing. Like I can literally cry at
the drop of a hat. It's like I'm just not
really I'm not a whole person yet. I'm literally learning
about my core wound that's affected everything in my life
for the first time ever. And I need to do
that and I need to learn how to take care
of myself before I can expect someone else to like
take care of my needs.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Yeah, I think that's profound.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
And I think that, you know, to pull out a
little and to really look at the big picture or
very broad picture. I think in a patriarchal society, men's
feelings are the most important thing. Yeah, to not just women,
but just to the world. So I don't think I
think it's a natural product of that is us feeling
(34:18):
very guilty to make a man feel anything that's uncomfortable
or you know, discomforting, or like being worried that a
man feels embarrassed. You know, historically men's embarrassment is not
good and it's a very very uncomfortable feeling. That all
being said, you know, as I shared with you, and
apologies if This is a repeated story on the pod,
(34:40):
but I have done many different versions of this. I
flew to Rome, Italy to have sex with someone I
have met twice and then actually started dating their roommate
in advance, and then had to still fly there on
a non refundable ticket and be like, hey, so I'm
actually dating your roommate. Now, this person didn't asked for
(35:00):
me to come visit them. I told them I was
going to come visit strictly to have sex. And we
had a great time as friends, like there was a
connection there, I was a friend connection, and we had
the best, like one of the best weeks of my life,
just as two friends who have friendship started by me
saying I want to have sex with you, which is unusual,
but it's it's an example of you know, you tried something,
(35:21):
you swung big, and you learned something. And I don't
think that's a bad experience in the long run. I
think that's an uncomfortable experience. You know. When I had
to tell this guy that I was dating his roommate,
I was literally crouching on a patio like in a squat,
and he was looking down at me, like, no, we
have to talk about this, and I was like, uh
huh oh okay, it was I s I SA sorry,
(35:42):
it's like a little chipmunk on the ground, like nervously
eating a nut.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
But I felt like physically ill, like truly. I was like,
I am, I am. Actually, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
All we're saying is like, yeah, I'm not feeling this. Guys,
I'm not worried about saying that to me before. They
haven't been in like the fetal position. They've literally been
like sounding like they're ought to for a movie, like hey,
I don't think that this is gonna work out. There
doesn't seem to be nervousness on that end. Well.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I was so grateful for like the support of like
friends who I was texting, who were like, no, you
don't have anything to feel guilty about, like just go
take care of yourself. And Jesse Kanevski, friend of the pod,
was like, you can still turn this into like a
nice experience, like go to a hotel and treat yourself basically,
so I did. I went to a hotel, I had
(36:29):
selling Sunset playing on my laptop. I ordered gluten free
pasta bolgonnets and I ate it in bed and I
was like, I actually like, couldn't be more that Freeport
this moment.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, I did also share with you, and I'm upset
that you aren't referencing as this as the most powerful
thing that relieves any anxiety. But I did also share
a story of when I texted someone who I had
not met before. Looks to camera. My friend was gonna
set me up with this guy. We had each other's number,
he had texted me one night, but it kind of
like our texting had fizzled out. I'm walking around in
(37:03):
New York corn Near then like oh yes everyone, and
I'm just like, you know what I'm gonna fucking get.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm gonna have sex tonight. I'm gonna get Rerail tonight.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I text this guy and I say, hey, it's Carolina,
like we had texted before, when we've initially been set up,
have not met. Can't emphasize that enough. I say, do
you I want to have sex tonight? Do you want
to have sex? And he goes, yeah, that sounds like fun,
and so I'm like I'm doing this. It had been
I had been a dry spell and i'd been you know,
just I had not found a connection. I was like, fine,
(37:33):
I'm just gonna go have sex. I pay for a
forty dollars cab ride. I'm continuing to look to camera
when I say that, go and meet him outside of
a restaurant. Now he's wearing a newsboy cap and he's
talking to friends. So I'm literally just waiting for him
to finish talking to friends so we can leave together.
And already my entire body is going no, no, no, no,
no no no. We get into a car, go to
(37:53):
his apartment. It's just like very real and not in
a good way. And exactly, I literally do the embarrassing
thing of like texting my friend to call me and
I'm like hello, and she's like, it's Sean Collen, friend
of the Pot, and she goes, hey, what's up?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And I go, is everything okay?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
And you know, with the female intuition, she goes, no,
I need help, come get me. And I say, oh
my god, I need to go. My friends in trouble.
And he's like what and I'm like, yeah, it sucks, okay,
gotta go bye, and I head out and it's the best,
the worst feeling in the world best because I got
out of there and like got out of a situation.
(38:32):
That I had put myself in but still got out
without betraying myself. More in terms of like sleeping with
someone without wanting to, and worst because I felt bad
because I had embarrassed this person. They probably felt like
uncomfortable and like embarrassed after. But people can have bad feelings.
People can be uncomfortable if I'm not intentionally. I didn't
(38:53):
hurt this man physically. I didn't insult him.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I didn't. All I did was take care of myself.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You know. Was it selfish of me to maybe, you know,
go do something without being one hundred percent positive. I
didn't know that I was doing something without being positive
until I got there. Yeah, no, that you know selfish,
that's not I It was just one of those things
that did not work out, like you were saying, like
I gave it my all. I gave it, you know,
eighty dollars of cab money back and forth, and it
didn't work out. And that happens, and people are allowed
(39:21):
to be uncomfortable with that, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
People are allowed, women are allowed to change our minds.
Like I think that's the thing too, is like I
always remember this storyline from Summerhouse early on, where like
page disorbou my queen, and Icon was flirting with carl
kind of all summer and they like made out a
couple times, and then she like started dating someone and
(39:44):
Kyle Cook like attacked her in his like disgusting, drunken
frap boy way, and he was.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Like, you led carl On.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
You led carl On, and she was like, no, I'm
allowed to change my mind. Actually, by the way, she
was like twenty three, I'm like thirty.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I didn't actually make no, but you're like, I didn't
give vows, I didn't call you my boyfriend. I don't
do any of this. It's very interesting. I think that
I haven't just worried about men's feelings. I've worried about
people's feelings my whole life, even people I did not like.
I have worried about how they felt, even people I
did not respect. I've worried about how they felt, what
(40:19):
they thought of me. And it's time to let go
of fear that doesn't belong to us. So like that,
how a stranger feels, how someone who has been rude
to me feels about me not talking to them anymore,
that does not matter. Yeah, I cannot respect these people.
That does not matter. They can feel however they want.
If you know, it's my philosophy on blocking people who
(40:43):
you know on Instagram. Like they can think I'm dramatic,
That's fine, I don't want to see them anymore. They
can have their feelings to be confused, That's totally fine.
I have felt a myriad of different emotions because that's
a part of the human experience. And if I'm embarrassed,
if I'm confused by someone's behavior, that's okay. I will
survive that. I should actually focus on other things.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
So by us, you know, changing our behavior to minimize
people's feelings, that is almost dishonest. It's manipulating our own
it's contorting ourselves when we don't need to.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
And I know it's a lot of energy.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
And in many of these situations, like the other option
is to like spend time with someone because you feel guilty,
or stay in a relationship because I feel guilty, And
I would never want someone to do that. It's like
I I'm trying to implicate that or like I'm trying
to practice that more in my life where I'm like
if I'm only going to something because I feel guilty,
Like why is that good for either person.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
It's not.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And also we've seen the extreme version of that where
not because he felt guilty, but because he didn't want
to be uncomfortable. Sandoval stayed in a fucking relationship until.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
But I think that's actually deeper.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I think he like wanted the support, and he wanted
He's such a narcissist. He just needs constant support and validation,
and he wanted it from both Arianna and Raquel, and
he tried to paint this narrative that he wasn't getting
it from Ariana, but we saw her riding and dying
for him all season.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
And we saw him like lying to her, like we
saw him acting as if they were a happy couple.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
It's not like todm.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Schwartz, who was literally telling his girlfriend she his wife,
she had a Karen haircut and was calling her a
bitch like a week before their wedding. It was not
like at least that you're like, Okay, she should break
up with him, because he clearly doesn't want.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
To be with her.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
No, they were kissing, they were he was only doing
the you know, slow breakup behind her back totally. Well,
as I said, I think it's very cool that you
tried something, and I think that, like you said, you
learn something from it. You know, my version of adventure
right now is not deleting my Riah and matching with
people and not deleting my hinge and thinking about being
(42:54):
asked to set up with people. But it is a
slow roll. And so even though you have been experiencing
a lot of ups and downs in regards to your
dating life, I still think it comes down to, you know,
the monologue from He's Just Not that into You, where
the needy girl says, at least I'm trying, like at
(43:15):
least I'm going for something.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, I want to say that.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
We are definitely going to be recapping those freaking reunions.
I mean, I thank god it's saying god it's plural.
When they said three, I said, wow, I wished for four.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
I thought it was going to be four.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
But yeah, I mean, if we got four of Beverly Hills,
why can't we get four of this?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
But I digress.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
We will be covering that as well as, you know,
our upcoming dating futures, which I hope there to be.
In the meantime, I love you, Devin, love you Carol.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I want true It's true. True, it's so romantic. Love me, baby,
don't leave me. Haggin I want true
Hello, and welcome to your romance. This is Carolina Barlow,
this is Devin Leary. You guys, it happened. To those
of you who don't watch Evander pump Roles, you're probably
relieved if you are a frequent listener to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I barely graduated high school, so we're just lucky I'm
here at all.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It happened. The finale happened.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And when I say the finale, I really mean part
of the finale, because in Bravo Universe, the reunions are
the real finale, and these reunions are necessary. But the
affair between Tom Santaval aka Worn with a Mustache and
Rachel Levis is revealed, Arianna finds out. I unfortunately wanted
to know what exactly they were doing on the FaceTime
(00:57):
video that Arianna found on her phone.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
That is how nosy I am.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I mean, it's pretty obvious, is it not that they
were like both masturbating.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I guess that's that's the only thing it could be.
It's so grass I love too how Tom Santaval was like, yeah,
I usually would delete it, but I was so busy.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (01:18):
You I know.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Oh shoot, I didn't delete that, yeah, and I feel
bad about that, but I was really busy.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I was painting my nails white.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
No.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
The one gift that I was was my god.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I well, first of all, when you just said they're
both jerking off, it made me laugh because I went
to with this restaurant with my friend Molly Landis last
night and there was a photo booth and I was like.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Oh, we have to do the photo booth and she's
like no.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And I was like, we're doing it, like we both
want to do it right, and she's like, no, I
really don't want to and I was like, Okay, we're
doing it because obviously I was thinking about my Instagram
main feed. So we like take these photo booth pictures
and there was a guy standing out the photo booth,
so we like assumed he worked there. And then our
photo what we thought was our photos printed and he
like takes them and I'm like oh, and then he
(02:09):
starts he starts to like step away, and I was like,
oh my god, imagine he takes like our photo booth
pictures and jerks off to them, and then.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
He walked out of the and I go, wait, what
do we do. He's taking them.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
He's taking them, and then Landy Molly land Is like
starts to she like sort of like slowly starts to
walk after him. But I'm like, well, what's even the
game plan? Like this man is like much larger than us,
and like we're gonna be like.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Hey, now you give us our picture, give us our
pictures back, you creepy old man. The pictures are tainted
by now anyway, just the idea that there's like a
creepy guy who has a fetish of like stealing people's
but pictures and jerking off to girls like with their
tongue sticking out, well.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Girl, like a goofy cute face.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
The sign we realized the sign said it actually takes
five to ten minutes to print your photos.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
So he took his.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
But we were like, that's actually a really good prank
to like wait outside and just take someone's photo booths
and then like come back.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
But anyway, it was funny.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Anyway, The point is Raquell and Tom jerked off to
each other. Yeah, so this is what I'll say, Like
Tom gave us everything as a villain.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
That we could ever need, Like he could not be more.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Of a bubbling, it's idiots, narcissists, it's it's it's actually shocking,
like how bad he did at every turn. And I
will tell you, like I have never watched something and
felt so vindicated and so like like justice. Like I
remember there was one time, like this person I worked
(03:38):
with who was like doing a really bad job and
like purposely not doing their job and purposely like avoiding work,
and it was like affecting me, and I thought that
my bosses like didn't see it.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
And it was so frustrating.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I was like, Okay, how are they not seeing that
this person is like on Twitter while we're supposed to
be working and like everyone else is like picking up
their slack.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
And then years.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Later I found out that my boss was like, oh yeah, no,
we knew that the whole time, and like of course whatever,
and I was.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Like, oh yes, Like.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I felt so vindicated, and so that's how I felt
watching this whole episode, but tenfold. And also like like
Arianna handled herself. Ariana did not have a she didn't
have a single flawed moment, Like she didn't have she
didn't it was incredible to the level she never got down.
She just like owned him absolutely, like when she devastated
(04:32):
Ariana with her words, I mean Raquel with her words here,
I am like Tom calling her Ariana.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That was so crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Okay, let's go piece by piece, Yeah, okay, piece by
piece Okay, Kelly Clarkson. In the words of Kelly Clarkson,
piece by piece, you abandoned me. Okay, and all hope
and faith in men has abandoned me. So the episode
opens with a fucking true crime esque title where it
says like March some Thing twenty twenty three, New York
(05:02):
and it shows Watch what Happens Live and Raquel saying
that she thinks Sanda Ball is hotter than Schwartz and
Shina being shocked. Then it cuts to confessional Arianna and Tom.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Are we ready to talk about it?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
No?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
They both give their pieces. That's when Tom said his.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Weird thing of like, oh, I normally would have deleted
the evidence of me cheating, but I like completely forgot,
And then I was like so then it cuts to
this weird thing where it was like the Vanderpump music
where it's like sunshine in the streets and I was like.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh it is as usual.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yeah, I was like, are they just like going back
to normal life.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And then you know Andy was in the editing booth
on this one, like Andy, Andy was.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Hanywhere on this one. Yea, Andy was in the closet
while they were filming that insert of Gordo Schwartz humping
a stuffed animal. But then they cut straight to it.
We see Ariana on the couch devastated, talking to her friends.
And by the way, I hope when I get devastated,
but by the way, I already have, and so I
already know this isn't the case. I hope I could
(06:03):
look that stunning. She looked so beautiful, like.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Christy Teakin was on Watch What Happens Live the Night
Like the Night after the finale and said that both
Sheena and Arianna look incredible when they're devastated when.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
They have no makeup on, like just crying puffy, but
like in such a hot way. When I get puffy,
like my pores like are like exploding with oil.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And I'm like, I have to say that I am
a very pretty crier.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And multiple people have told me that.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Someone has told me they got turned on by me
crying once, which bad makes me uncomfortable. It's kind of
a red flag. But I also was kind of into it,
and maybe that's what's wrong with me. No, anyway, so
then we get the I.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Don't give a fuck about Racow. So this is the
thing about Tom. He's such a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Everything he said to Ariana was about him, and actually
everything he said about Raquel he never once said like,
and Raquel's like, actually just so amazing and beautiful, and like,
I just think it was all about I turned forty,
I lost my mojo.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
I felt this. I didn't feel as cool as I used.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
To, right right, And she says that she was like,
you needed someone to like liven you up and pump
you up, and you found a girl who gets her
identity from men.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
And did I relate to that? Yeah? I did? But
would I ever do what she did? No?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I know im No, no, no, I mean we all struggle,
at least. I think it's common to struggle with having
men or relationships as your first priority or you know
me myself, I have given that up for a little bit,
but I know what it's like to put all of
my self worth on how a man feels about me
(07:50):
and not knowing what to do when I.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Don't get that.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So I do know that, but I definitely sympathize with
anyone who has been completely bamboozled by someone like that.
And that would be our our quinn Ariana, and we
are merely her subjects. She says, I regret ever loving you,
(08:15):
and I regret ever sticking up for you. And she
says what broke my heart and I almost started crying
when she was like, I would have followed you anywhere.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
And I would have changed anything about myself and like that,
She's like, I mean, I think all women could really
relate in that moment of like she's like, I gave
up everything, like I was so committed to you, I
went above and beyond for years.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Say She's like, you're pathetic, and I want you to
know that someone who loves you is saying that. I
want you to feel that down to your soul.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
I know. But unfortunately like he won't feel that.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
No, he fake cries, by the way, fake tears this
whole episode. You do not know when real tears come
with this man, and and and they have a flashback
to Kristen Dodi, who prophetic, you know, Goddess Kristin Dowdy,
who says, fine, Ariana, you can have Tom, you know,
get ready to be with the best liar in the world.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
And when we go.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Through this episode, there are multiple times where you realize
how much he was covering up cheating and how incredible
he was at it, especially because Ariana went on to
watch What Happens Live after the show, saying that she
would ask for his phone when he went missing for
nights and he would be like, sure here and she
would look through them and like everything seemed legitimate, and
(09:26):
she said, okay, So I'm so sorry to give ahead
just for a moment. When to Sandival goes to Schwartz's
house and is more emotional with Schwartz than he was
with the partner of nine years we cheated on, he says,
I mean, all Ariana had to do was follow me,
and she'd realize it wasn't going to your house. And
even Tom Schwartz, who I'm so sorry, is like the
(09:48):
emotionally one of the stupidest people I've ever seen in
my life. He goes, well, you can't really put that
on her. Like Tom, Sandival is basically blaming Ariana for
being in the dark, for trusting him. So when Ariana
is on Watch What Happens, she looks into the camera
and goes, I did track your location and guess what
you were at Schwartz's.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I know, And then Schwartz tries to pretend like he
didn't know until recently, when like they clearly used his
apartment as like a slam pad, which is fucking disgusting.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Okay, And so again to jump ahead, Schwartz meets up
with Katie, and I know you said that you don't
feel like the girls did a good job except for Shena,
but I do like that. Katie said, why don't you
be on the right side of this for once?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
And this is truth, okay, but this is the thing,
Like I feel like she only cared about her side
of it, Like she felt like vindicated that like the
Toms were getting their due. But I felt like she
wasn't like going hard for Ariana and she kind of
was like making things about herself.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I didn't I didn't see that as much. I think
she was in shock, like when she goes over to
the house and is just like no, when she finds
out that Arianna buzzed Raquel's car in by accident because
Tom buzzed her and then they had sex literally outside
of our on his house while.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
She was inside. I mean, the betrayal is.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Endless, it's egregious, it's egregious, and it's gross. Like I
like that, she kind of being like, it's disgusting. I
don't want to hear about your friendship with Raquel. At
one point, she goes, when are you gonna see Raquel next?
And he goes tomorrow, which again you're like, what is
wrong with this man? And any normal human who's not
trying to hurt their partner would be like, I don't know,
I don't know. But she goes and are you guys
(11:24):
going to talk about your amazing connection? And he's like
I don't know, and she's like, why don't you just
say no?
Speaker 4 (11:30):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
It's very very, very interesting. And then speaking of Tom Schwartz,
she gets a text from Tom Schwartz that's like, I'm
so sorry, Arianna. I try to tell him to tell
you I don't want to kick him when he's down,
And when she sees him at the end of the episode,
she says something I love, which I've already told friends
to say in instances where they don't want to talk
(11:52):
about something like I think this is amazing advice and
actually an amazing calm way of having a conversation. She
sits down with Schwartz and she says, just FYI, if
you start talking about how hard Tom has had it,
I will get up and leave.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Well, also she says I will. She she has so
much such like strong boundaries. She also said, I will
not be I will not have mutual friends with him,
So I'm no longer your friend.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yes, she's very clear, and it's not vengeful, it's very
it's it's clear, and she does, in Watch What Happens
Live call him a flying monkey. She calls him Tom
one of Tom Sanderval's flying monkeys, which because.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
She's talking about how the whole season there was like
this campaign constructed against her to make her seem like
she's the reason he cheated, which is even more disgusting
than one could imagine. But I loved the double decker
of the episode and then the Watch What Happens Live
because when they were filming the episode, it was like
days two days after she found out, which I think
(12:51):
she had such incredible composure despite that. But I loved
also then getting the version of her where she's like,
I'm healing now.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
I move on, I'm with someone else. I mean, do
I support immediately getting with someone else?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
No in this situation, yes.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Even though I've done that a million times.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
But I think that that was like really healing and
fun to watch.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
It was helling.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So I want you to ride for your friend Sheena
here because before we even recorded, Devin was heated about
her love for Sina, who I've had a really hard
time with this season. But I agree she completely showed up.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
What I said after the episode was show up at
my house crying, show up at my house screaming, or
don't show up at my.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
House at all.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I don't want fake people. I don't want people who
can't open up to me. I don't want people who
aren't authentic with their shit. And that's how I felt
about Sheena. It's like she came in messy. She came
in carrying care animal crushes on a bottle of rose,
and she's like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
That's how you show up. That is how you show up.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
And then she confronted Tom and she's like, but you
fucked her best friend, like and then she cried and
was like I will not be your friend anymore because
like I'm so disgusted by this. She just came correct,
she felt her emotions.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
She fucking by the way. She shows the Arian his
house and crying and says.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I think I like pushed her and like I might
have like cut her with my nail like and she's like,
I don't know, I was just so angry, Like honestly, yes,
I want people to choose violence in my defense in
moments like this, and then I want people to try
to explain themselves by saying that their nails are too
long in violence if someone did this to you and
they can't form a fist. She's the Johnny Cochran of
(14:49):
our generation. She her house is the.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Only one that looks like I would want to live
in it, and.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I this is the thing too. It's like, I feel
like we didn't get much from La La this episode,
but I know we're going to.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Get in the reunion.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
I know.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I know in the reunion she's going to like go
after I don't know what happened. I think it was
like the edit, like she must have not been available
or something.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
We needed more James, we need more Lalla. But I
know in the reunion it's going to be like eighty
percent of them.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Okay. When James and Ali came on the screen and
he goes.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Allie, oh I feel so he's like, oh, I feel
so stressed out.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Allie and I was with my friend Leslie. We both
go oh and.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
We are actually a very cute couple.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
We love them mainly because she is called and aloof
and I aim to be more like that. Actually I
think I need I think I need some of that.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I need some of that too. I'm constantly oversharing until.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
James basically being like, I love you, should I propose?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I know I read that book Set Boundaries.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Finep sorry to talk about it again, but like there's
a whole thing about oversharing and that's literally me, and
it's so hard not to do it. Like someone's like,
how'zard day, and I'm like, I actually just read about
how my eating disorder was a rejection of the way
I was raised in womanhood and I didn't want to
become a woman yet, so I starved myself told like
a boy. Any questions, So that's me dating.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I'm like, and they're like how at Starbucks? BENI or Okay,
I realized something though recently I have so much baggage
that it is hard for me not to overshare. Literally
I was getting and they were like, oh wait, you
played the banjo in high school. Why And I was
like because like I brought up the banjo somehow, and
(16:29):
I was like, yeah, I know. Beth Jacobs is like
laughing somewhere in front of the pod, is like she's
so happy, so trying to call in and I was like, yeah,
I don't know, and she was like when'd you Where
did you learn that?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I was like in rehab for an eating disorder.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And then same person last night was like how old
were you when you stopped drinking? And I was like twenty.
And then she was like, and what happened with this
car accident? I was like, okay, I've I've been through
the wringer. Okay, I'll admit some things have happened, some
things have transpired. And I have some luggage, not back luggage.
I have a little cart that I carry like a
bell hop.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Well I think that's preferable, though, is what I'm saying
to someone who doesn't share, Like I want people's baggage.
I want people to open up and I want to
receive what I give, Like I want people to be
like cool, my childhood trauma is actually like this. And
if they don't, like they're Katie Maloney and they're a drag.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Oh okay, I feel like Katie Maloney slander. Can I
can only listen? I someone pointed out recently, I was
first of all, vander pump Rolls fans are everywhere and
in all shapes and sizes, and I love finding them
in the wild. And I was talking to someone at
work the other day and they were talking about how
they think Katie's on benzos because she looks like a
little sleepy and she's been slurring a little bit.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
She's also like always drinking so much, and like, no,
she's for sure has a problem.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yeah, so that's tough.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It's not easy.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But I would have a drinking problem if I was
married to Schwartz for four years.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I know.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Also obviously like Tom and r Keller koke heads, but
Tom Sworts also I think is a coke head because
he in some confessionals, especially this one, because this was
like the rushed confessional where they're like, oh, let's get
the gang back together to talk about the affair.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
He has like red around his nostrils and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Let's get the gang together to talk about the affair.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
By the way, when he's like, uh, like, I just
have a lot going on.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
There's like man eating crocodiles in Florida.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Now, I Meanamar and Morris made that amazing country song.
I love her so she's perfect. She's so perfect. She's
the kind of person we should all aspire to be,
Like we.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Should all be an eighties Mercedes.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We are off topic.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
She Anda's confrontation of Sandoval is really what the people need. Again,
We'll get more from Lalla, we will get more from James,
maybe more from Katie Maloney if she wakes up.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Wait, we glossed over. We were just so in favor of.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
James that we forgot to talk about this was James
gave us what we needed too, which is like the
tension and adrenaline was so intense, and then we have
this moment of comic relief where he's like, I'm gonna
call her well and he's like, you've done diddly fucked
yourself over for a forty year old stinky cock, and
it was just like we need.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
This dying laughing, but also like what is up with Raquel?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Like what like we need I need a psychologist to
diagnose Raquel, Like what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Like she answers the phone and she's like, hey, yeah,
I know, I don't know, And I'm like, why did
you even fucking answer the phone?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
No, she's on there's something going on mentally.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I do believe. I think that she has a personality disorder.
And I don't know what you wanted. It is one yeah,
but when she's in her confessional and they're like why
did you do this, she's smiling like I'm I like
sex with someone I loved and I always wanted to
see what that was like. Like she's kind of giddy,
(19:49):
even when he comes to her house.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
She's really so excited. She's always to.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Me, I would be like, I'm trying to think about
what country to move to and like where to start
my new life like off the grid, which I guess
it's almost like it hasn't really hit her how people
are viewing her.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
But yeah, she is pretty again, giddy.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
They're like trying not to fuck in that scene and
like he's like, I can't kiss you, Like they're so
into each other, and then we get that title that
says Raquela was not seen or heard from after this scene,
and it's like, I guess she's in fucking mirror ball
or whatever, Like she's in a treatment center. But arian
heard the rumor that she's pregnant. Yeah, I don't believe it,
(20:35):
but I have heard it.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Same, I'm not convinced it would be wild though. It
would be like when Elizabeth Holmes got pregnant to try
to evase jail time of age jail time. I was like, ease,
I was gonna let it slide, and I thought, you
know what, our listeners deserve better.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
They deserve English, don't.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
You mean Lizzie Holmes? She goes by Lizzie.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Now, so Raquel is gonna start going by Rocky and
she's like, I'm just barefoot and pregnant in the desert.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Actually Rocky is cute.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Well, I'm I cannot wait until that fucking reunion.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Also, want to talk about Sheena again for a moment,
all right, go ahead. So Sina says something that I
think is very profound, because he is continuously this whole time,
the whole episode, talking about how how hard it would
be to break up with Arianna, and everyone is like,
don't be a coward and break up, like break up
with her, leave, don't fuck her best friend and she
and he says, she said she was going to kill herself,
(21:33):
and Sina says, so then you call her mom, you
call her brother, you have them come out here, you
gather around her friends, and you let us us pick
up the pieces like.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
We're doing now.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
And it's really really profound because it's basically like, yeah,
you're not the the option isn't okay, then I'll be
dishonest and cheat on like someone who suffers from depression
and is mentally unwell.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
I know.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And also I loved that reminds me of something I
loved that Arianna said to talk in the opening when
he's like, every time I try to apologize to you,
you just like get.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Angry, as if what in what world would that not happen?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And she let me be angry and you still have
to apologize, Like it's like, yes, feelings are uncomfortable, life
is uncomfortable, and you live and you still have to
do shit. You still have to do what you said
you were going to do. You still have to show up.
And this is the thing too, is like I feel
like with Tom's whole thing. It's like he basically was
(22:27):
like yeah, and then like I was in a long
term relationship and it like wasn't as sexy and exciting
as it was in the begin and that was devastating
to me.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's like, no, that's actually fucking life.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And you show up anyway, and you do what you
say you were going to do, and you stop taking
shots for more than five days so that you can
inseminate a frozen embryo, and that's life, bitch.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I really think when she said I was ride or
die for you of you know, the nation felt that.
And I know you and I have both been in
relationships where it's like, no, I was ride or die
ever you and I really feel like both you and
I have been waiting for that in the reverse. And
I want to talk about christ and Dowdy showing up
(23:11):
in her Adidas flip flops and doing you know, the
Witches of West Hollywood spell work with her. And one
of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen is Ariana
writing down for something that she no longer wants in
her life. She writes, unrequited loyalty.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Wow, it was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I thought that was that was like more.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, exactly like you have been.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I have been giving unrequited loyalty in my life when
people don't necessarily have that for me.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I just don't know, like, where are the men who
are capable of that?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Truly?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Where are the men are out there? I think they're
out there. I think it's gonna be hard, not gonna lie.
I don't think they're out A lot of them are
out there, but I think there are good men out there.
Just like you were talking about how your landlord actually
turned out to be really nice, I think that there
are a few good landlords out there, and there are
a few good men out there, and it's of course
on us to go hunting the bow and arrow.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
If if you are.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
A loyal, call this number. If you are a loyal,
If you're a loyal.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Just please go into my DMS. And I know it's
not gonna happen, but whatever. It's like, what am I
supposed to do? I can't date. I try to date.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
It doesn't work. I try to not date. I've never
actually tried that, but I don't think it would work.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And I try to date, it doesn't work. I try
not to date, do I no.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
No, I don't, but I'm just like, I guess I
just have to be alone and work through my fucking trauma.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Well, you know that we are two sides of a
coin here.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I have been choosing to be alone and working on
my trauma for about five years, and a part of
that was in a relationship, and a part of that
was not you have been adventurous lately. And I think
that that is really profound. I think that it's easy
to be hard on yourself when you're adventurous, and I'd
(25:03):
rather be hard on myself for being adventurous than what
I currently am, which is hard on myself for not
being adventurous.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well, I think there's like a middle ground, and I
also think it's like it's just.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
There's no such thing as a middle ground on anything
in my life.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Okay, well, this is what I'll say.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I had a bit of a ninety day fiance moment.
I will not give a lot of details, but I
will say that I traveled to visit someone who I've
like met a few times and who I had some
previous chemistry with. But really the problem is, and this
(25:41):
is like what I'm learning about in therapy and what
I'm trying to like practice in my life. So basically,
I have a core wound from childhood that made me feel.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
That is it okay if I lie down for this
just kidding.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I was like, oh my god, what no, this is
It will be hard for me to say without getting emotional,
but like, I have a core wound from childhood that
makes me feel like I'm not someone who's like worth
getting to know, and that has plagued me My entire
life is like this feeling that I'm not worthy and
also like when someone does get to know me, they
(26:19):
would reject me. And so I have one part of
me that feels like devastating loneliness and another part of
me that like is constantly trying to reject that by
like filling some sort of void or like trying to
prove to myself that I am worthy, or trying to
like escape my feelings. Like it's just like this constant
back and forth that I'm trying to now learn how
(26:40):
to integrate. So basically what I have to do is
like learn how to take care of myself. I've never
felt taken care of because of this like core wound thing,
Like I've never felt like I'm okay and so now
I'm trying to learn how to, in moments where I
don't feel okay, take care of myself and actually get
to know myself and so that I can make because
(27:01):
in order to make decisions to take care of myself,
I have to like know myself.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And know what I need.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
So I'm like learning. I'm like trying to journal and
like feel my body.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Like that's something I've literally never done, is like feel
in my body. Why do I want to do this? Okay,
perfect example. I didn't analyze my feelings before this situation.
I didn't pause and sit with myself and think, why
am I really doing this?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
People ask me.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
So basically I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to
travel to go visit this man that I like, don't
really know that well because I think there might be
a connection.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Have been this continue People like.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Questioned that as as they should.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I also recently got out of like a relationship that
truly devastated me, And when people question that, I said.
I even said at one point to a friend, I
was like, listen, like, I know some people have to
be alone to get over things, and I know some
people like that's what's good for them. But for me,
I need to be with someone, like I know, if
I had a boyfriend, it would like just fix things
(28:03):
and then I would feel more stable, which is like.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
What, like how old am I?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Because that's the way I felt since I was like
in high school as Carolina.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Know.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Was like when we met, I was like, I just
need a boyfriend and everything will be okay. So that's
kind of like the feeling I was having. And the
texting with this person was kind of like there's like
it felt like kind of awkward and weird, but I
was like.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
No, no, it's fine. It's like once we've been we
get in person, it'll be fine.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And the long story short is when we got together
in person, not only did I like not feel chemistry,
but it just kind of like all it all like
fell into place where I was like literally I'm like
in the car with this person. I'm like wait, I'm
like so far away from home, like kind of how
(28:47):
did I end up here?
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like? Why am I here? What's happening? I miss Cookie?
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I don't feel I felt like I was like at
Sleepway Camp, like when you're like wait.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I like don't know, wait, I need my mom.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Literally, I was like I like don't know anyone, like
when I was at sleep Boy camp, but I remember
feeling like I don't know anyone here well enough to
tell them that I'm actually like freaking.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
The fuck out. And that's how I felt.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Like.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I was like, I'm with this person I don't know
that well and I'm freaking the fuck out, and I
feel like I can't tell him. And I also like
had a lot of feelings come up about how like
I'm really not over my last relationship, Like I really
was in love with someone and connected with someone in
a way that I like haven't with anyone else before,
(29:32):
and like felt truly seen by someone and all this stuff,
and then that person like didn't love me enough to
be with me, and that really fucking hurts. And so
it was like not having chemistry with this person was
reminding me how much how much chemistry I had with
my most recent ex and it was just like, oh
my god, whatever, it just was so much. And then
(29:57):
basically I first, this is what I want to talk about.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
So like then I.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I knew almost immediately that I was like, I actually
like can't be here and I like need to leave.
But I kept telling myself I'm like, okay, give it
more of a chance, like give it the night and
see how you feel tomorrow, like and but my gut
feeling from the beginning was actually from just texting with
this person, was like we don't have chemistry and maybe
this isn't a good idea, and I didn't listen to that.
And then that first night, I was kind of like
(30:30):
my gut feeling was like this is weird and we're
not connecting. And it also was like I felt responsible,
like I like owed him connecting. But I also felt
like there was a couple of moments where I was like,
this sounds weird, but it's like I was like interacting
with like a store employee.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Or like this woman at a restaurant we were at,
and I was.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Like, I'm like like being funny and charming and these
people are like getting it and this guy, like I
just felt like he didn't get me, like he.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
Wasn't like laughing at my jokes.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
And I was like, wait, I'm like funny and charming
and you're like not even realizing how great I am.
But for some reason I feel guilty about that, Like
why So then the next day I wake up, I
look at so I have like a rain camera set
up so I can watch Cookie at home. I like
started watching footage of him and started like sobbing, crying whatever.
(31:19):
So basically I I whatever, I'm like, I book a hotel.
I immediately felt like so much relief once I like
booked a hotel and like changed.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
My travel plans.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
But then like I had to tell this person that
I was leaving, and I did, Like it was like
at first it was first it was like I was
so scared to say it. So we like go get
coffee and I'm like not saying anything, and then like
we were like walking around, I'm like just fucking say it.
Just fucking like I had so much adrenaline. I couldn't
(31:54):
even drink the coffee. My hand was like shaking, and
I was like, oh wow, it's like really nice here,
it's a nice day. And then I was like, Okay,
here's the deal, and he was really nice about it,
but he also was like, oh, like maybe we can
still spend the day together and whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
It was just like I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It was it was so hard for me to just
be like no, I'm good, I'm just gonna leave, thank you.
And then after I left, I felt so much guilt
and I was like really struggling with that, Like I
was like, I feel so guilty, like I'm respect and
then I was like, wait, you know what all I
did was go above and beyond basically to like travel
to this person. I gave it literally everything I could
(32:33):
and there wasn't a connection.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
That's not my fault. But there's like this.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Narrative of it's like the woman's responsibility, like his emotions
or my responsibility. It's not like he took a risk
by getting together with me. I took a risk by
getting together with him. There wasn't chemistry in my experience,
and I wasn't ready for a connection because of what
(32:57):
I just went through and that's it.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
But for some reason, I feel like it was my
fault and like why did I do this to this person?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
It's like I didn't do anything except try and I
also learned like what I was really hard on myself,
like I'm like why did I come here, and like
why did I waste this time? Why did I waste
this other person's time? But in the end, it's like
I did learn something from it, which is I'm really
not ready to connect with someone after my last breakup. Like,
and I really am like a raw nerve from all
(33:25):
this therapy I'm doing. Like I can literally cry at
the drop of a hat. It's like I'm just not
really I'm not a whole person yet. I'm literally learning
about my core wound that's affected everything in my life
for the first time ever. And I need to do
that and I need to learn how to take care
of myself before I can expect someone else to like
take care of my needs.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Yeah, I think that's profound.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
And I think that, you know, to pull out a
little and to really look at the big picture or
very broad picture. I think in a patriarchal society, men's
feelings are the most important thing. Yeah, to not just women,
but just to the world. So I don't think I
think it's a natural product of that is us feeling
(34:18):
very guilty to make a man feel anything that's uncomfortable
or you know, discomforting, or like being worried that a
man feels embarrassed. You know, historically men's embarrassment is not
good and it's a very very uncomfortable feeling. That all
being said, you know, as I shared with you, and
apologies if This is a repeated story on the pod,
(34:40):
but I have done many different versions of this. I
flew to Rome, Italy to have sex with someone I
have met twice and then actually started dating their roommate
in advance, and then had to still fly there on
a non refundable ticket and be like, hey, so I'm
actually dating your roommate. Now, this person didn't asked for
(35:00):
me to come visit them. I told them I was
going to come visit strictly to have sex. And we
had a great time as friends, like there was a
connection there, I was a friend connection, and we had
the best, like one of the best weeks of my life,
just as two friends who have friendship started by me
saying I want to have sex with you, which is unusual,
but it's it's an example of you know, you tried something,
(35:21):
you swung big, and you learned something. And I don't
think that's a bad experience in the long run. I
think that's an uncomfortable experience. You know. When I had
to tell this guy that I was dating his roommate,
I was literally crouching on a patio like in a squat,
and he was looking down at me, like, no, we
have to talk about this, and I was like, uh
huh oh okay, it was I s I SA sorry,
(35:42):
it's like a little chipmunk on the ground, like nervously
eating a nut.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
But I felt like physically ill, like truly. I was like,
I am, I am. Actually, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
All we're saying is like, yeah, I'm not feeling this. Guys,
I'm not worried about saying that to me before. They
haven't been in like the fetal position. They've literally been
like sounding like they're ought to for a movie, like hey,
I don't think that this is gonna work out. There
doesn't seem to be nervousness on that end. Well.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I was so grateful for like the support of like
friends who I was texting, who were like, no, you
don't have anything to feel guilty about, like just go
take care of yourself. And Jesse Kanevski, friend of the pod,
was like, you can still turn this into like a
nice experience, like go to a hotel and treat yourself basically,
so I did. I went to a hotel, I had
(36:29):
selling Sunset playing on my laptop. I ordered gluten free
pasta bolgonnets and I ate it in bed and I
was like, I actually like, couldn't be more that Freeport
this moment.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, I did also share with you, and I'm upset
that you aren't referencing as this as the most powerful
thing that relieves any anxiety. But I did also share
a story of when I texted someone who I had
not met before. Looks to camera. My friend was gonna
set me up with this guy. We had each other's number,
he had texted me one night, but it kind of
like our texting had fizzled out. I'm walking around in
(37:03):
New York corn Near then like oh yes everyone, and
I'm just like, you know what I'm gonna fucking get.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm gonna have sex tonight. I'm gonna get Rerail tonight.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I text this guy and I say, hey, it's Carolina,
like we had texted before, when we've initially been set up,
have not met. Can't emphasize that enough. I say, do
you I want to have sex tonight? Do you want
to have sex? And he goes, yeah, that sounds like fun,
and so I'm like I'm doing this. It had been
I had been a dry spell and i'd been you know,
just I had not found a connection. I was like, fine,
(37:33):
I'm just gonna go have sex. I pay for a
forty dollars cab ride. I'm continuing to look to camera
when I say that, go and meet him outside of
a restaurant. Now he's wearing a newsboy cap and he's
talking to friends. So I'm literally just waiting for him
to finish talking to friends so we can leave together.
And already my entire body is going no, no, no, no,
no no no. We get into a car, go to
(37:53):
his apartment. It's just like very real and not in
a good way. And exactly, I literally do the embarrassing
thing of like texting my friend to call me and
I'm like hello, and she's like, it's Sean Collen, friend
of the Pot, and she goes, hey, what's up?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And I go, is everything okay?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
And you know, with the female intuition, she goes, no,
I need help, come get me. And I say, oh
my god, I need to go. My friends in trouble.
And he's like what and I'm like, yeah, it sucks, okay,
gotta go bye, and I head out and it's the best,
the worst feeling in the world best because I got
out of there and like got out of a situation.
(38:32):
That I had put myself in but still got out
without betraying myself. More in terms of like sleeping with
someone without wanting to, and worst because I felt bad
because I had embarrassed this person. They probably felt like
uncomfortable and like embarrassed after. But people can have bad feelings.
People can be uncomfortable if I'm not intentionally. I didn't
(38:53):
hurt this man physically. I didn't insult him.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I didn't. All I did was take care of myself.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You know. Was it selfish of me to maybe, you know,
go do something without being one hundred percent positive. I
didn't know that I was doing something without being positive
until I got there. Yeah, no, that you know selfish,
that's not I It was just one of those things
that did not work out, like you were saying, like
I gave it my all. I gave it, you know,
eighty dollars of cab money back and forth, and it
didn't work out. And that happens, and people are allowed
(39:21):
to be uncomfortable with that, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
People are allowed, women are allowed to change our minds.
Like I think that's the thing too, is like I
always remember this storyline from Summerhouse early on, where like
page disorbou my queen, and Icon was flirting with carl
kind of all summer and they like made out a
couple times, and then she like started dating someone and
(39:44):
Kyle Cook like attacked her in his like disgusting, drunken
frap boy way, and he was.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Like, you led carl On.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
You led carl On, and she was like, no, I'm
allowed to change my mind. Actually, by the way, she
was like twenty three, I'm like thirty.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I didn't actually make no, but you're like, I didn't
give vows, I didn't call you my boyfriend. I don't
do any of this. It's very interesting. I think that
I haven't just worried about men's feelings. I've worried about
people's feelings my whole life, even people I did not like.
I have worried about how they felt, even people I
did not respect. I've worried about how they felt, what
(40:19):
they thought of me. And it's time to let go
of fear that doesn't belong to us. So like that,
how a stranger feels, how someone who has been rude
to me feels about me not talking to them anymore,
that does not matter. Yeah, I cannot respect these people.
That does not matter. They can feel however they want.
If you know, it's my philosophy on blocking people who
(40:43):
you know on Instagram. Like they can think I'm dramatic,
That's fine, I don't want to see them anymore. They
can have their feelings to be confused, That's totally fine.
I have felt a myriad of different emotions because that's
a part of the human experience. And if I'm embarrassed,
if I'm confused by someone's behavior, that's okay. I will
survive that. I should actually focus on other things.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
So by us, you know, changing our behavior to minimize
people's feelings, that is almost dishonest. It's manipulating our own
it's contorting ourselves when we don't need to.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
And I know it's a lot of energy.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
And in many of these situations, like the other option
is to like spend time with someone because you feel guilty,
or stay in a relationship because I feel guilty, And
I would never want someone to do that. It's like
I I'm trying to implicate that or like I'm trying
to practice that more in my life where I'm like
if I'm only going to something because I feel guilty,
Like why is that good for either person.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
It's not.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And also we've seen the extreme version of that where
not because he felt guilty, but because he didn't want
to be uncomfortable. Sandoval stayed in a fucking relationship until.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
But I think that's actually deeper.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I think he like wanted the support, and he wanted
He's such a narcissist. He just needs constant support and validation,
and he wanted it from both Arianna and Raquel, and
he tried to paint this narrative that he wasn't getting
it from Ariana, but we saw her riding and dying
for him all season.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
And we saw him like lying to her, like we
saw him acting as if they were a happy couple.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
It's not like todm.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Schwartz, who was literally telling his girlfriend she his wife,
she had a Karen haircut and was calling her a
bitch like a week before their wedding. It was not
like at least that you're like, Okay, she should break
up with him, because he clearly doesn't want.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
To be with her.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
No, they were kissing, they were he was only doing
the you know, slow breakup behind her back totally. Well,
as I said, I think it's very cool that you
tried something, and I think that, like you said, you
learn something from it. You know, my version of adventure
right now is not deleting my Riah and matching with
people and not deleting my hinge and thinking about being
(42:54):
asked to set up with people. But it is a
slow roll. And so even though you have been experiencing
a lot of ups and downs in regards to your
dating life, I still think it comes down to, you know,
the monologue from He's Just Not that into You, where
the needy girl says, at least I'm trying, like at
(43:15):
least I'm going for something.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah, I want to say that.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
We are definitely going to be recapping those freaking reunions.
I mean, I thank god it's saying god it's plural.
When they said three, I said, wow, I wished for four.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
I thought it was going to be four.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
But yeah, I mean, if we got four of Beverly Hills,
why can't we get four of this?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
But I digress.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
We will be covering that as well as, you know,
our upcoming dating futures, which I hope there to be.
In the meantime, I love you, Devin, love you Carol.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I want true It's true. True, it's so romantic. Love me, baby,
don't leave me. Haggin I want true
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