May 10, 2026 • 35 mins
Regina Rowe-Hicks’ was discovered inside of her submerged car under suspicious circumstances back in 2001. But, with no DNA evidence and no witnesses, the case went cold for over 20 years…
It was only when her husband, Paul, was charged with arson years later and a determined podcaster did more digging into Regina’s death that things started to line up.
What made Paul’s arson charge the most bizarre thing Emily has ever witnessed?! How did police finally connect the dots to make an arrest for the murder? What does Paul and Regina’s son have to say about this crime?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Till Death Do
Us Part. I'll be your host, Emily Simpson with Shane Shane.
All right, Shane, today, we're just going to do a
little update before we get into the case that we're
going to talk about. And the case that we're going
to talk about is a woman named Regina Rowe Hicks
and it's an older case that was just recently solved,
(00:22):
so it's really interesting. But before we get into that,
let's do an update on David and the Celeste Rivus Hernandez. So, prosecutors,
I don't know if you've seen this is the singer
David that remember they found his tesla and then they
body in the back and it was a long time.
It was in the front that's right, the front front,
the fronk. Is that what it's called front trunk, the
(00:46):
front trunk, the fronk. And then there was a long
period of time between when the body was found and
then actually arresting him. But now that he's been arrested,
there's a lot more information that has been coming out,
which is is.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
He still in custody? Is he dislike detained this whole time?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So prosecutors alleged that David Burke oh I also did
read that his music label dropped him, so yeah, yeah,
really yeah. David Burke arranged for Celeste to be transported
to his Hollywood Hills home on April twenty third, twenty
twenty five, and stabbed her to silence her, claiming that
she was threatening to expose their relationship, which would have
(01:24):
damaged his music career.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Murder would damage your your career also.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
But instead of just you know, trying to do the
right thing and break up and take accountability for it,
he decides that.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
He should put her in the front.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, he has to stab her first, so he has
her come over to his home on April twenty third. Allegedly,
Burke also bought two chainsaws online and he used the
chainsaws to dismember Celeste's body what in an inflatable pool.
He also ordered the pool one of those plastics like
bard kit. Yeah, her DNA was found in his garage.
(02:03):
He used someone else's name to purchase the chainsaws and
the inflatable pool, but the but they were delivered to
his home. So that's like as far as he went.
And this like mastermind of like getting rid of this body.
Is I'll just use someone else's name to purchase it,
and then it just gets delivered to my home address.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And why do you want two chainsaws?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I guess he thought maybe if the first one broke,
he had a backup. I don't know, but he ordered
two chainsaws and one of those little plastic kitty inflatable pools.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And that was so heasy, have any kids, No, but he.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Put the He clearly put her body into the pool
and then dismembered her inside of this plastic pool in
order to keep you know, all the blood and everything
you know, within this plastic pool. Her DNA was found
in his garage. The court filing claims that Burke amputated
her left ring and pinky fingers because her ring finger
(02:57):
contained a tattoo of his name. Her fingers have not
been recovered. They say that Celeste was killed with two
penetrating torso wounds consistent with sharp force injuries, per the
autopsy report that was unsealed on April twenty second of
twenty twenty six. Prosecutors have also alleged that David Burke
(03:18):
did a radio interview the morning after the killing. A
widely recirculated clip shows him previously explaining a foul smell
in his home. I saw that clip on Instagram. It
was him with some friends at his house and he
was like joking around making reference to like just ignore
that smell, like he claimed it was because he just
(03:39):
went to the bathroom or something. But I believe that
clearly he was like indicating.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That this video of him saying that.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, that it was around the same time that she
is his cari.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Why does it keep her in the car until he
sells it or what.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I don't know. I don't understand. I don't understand how.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Like the kid that hides the underwear in the drawer
and I think no one's going to see it, but
it's like eventually you gotta do something, right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean, his plan was nothing other than she's going
to expose me for an inappropriate relationship, which is going
to ruin my music career. So let me have her
come over to my house. I'm going to murder her
and then I'm going to dismember her in my garage
and then I'm gonna take the remains. I'm gonna put
him in my tesla, and then I'm just gonna leave
my tesla. Parks on the side of the road, Like
that's as far as he got, first of all, to
(04:21):
be able to dismember a body that takes a special
kind of psychopath I'll never understand that. I can't even
I can't even like when my nail breaks and I
have to like and it breaks up high and you
have to like rip it off like that just is disturbing.
That's to me, that's.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Not entirely accurate. You watch all those surgery videos and
nasty stuff like that, and I got no problem saying,
someone get cut up. What you when you watch the
surgery video.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It is completely different to watch up last.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I can't watch that stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, but I know that the person's gonna look better
in the end and be happy, and they're gonna be
hot with their new breasts. Not that they're being dismembered.
That's vile.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, clearly one's violent and one's not. But they're both
cutting someone up and you have blood and guts everywhere.
Fair statement.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
No, surgery is very controlled, it's very precise.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
This is it's a science.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
This is a chainsaw. They're not the same, all right.
Digital evidence. At an April twenty third hearing, prosecutors disclose
that investigators found a significant amount of child abuse material
on David Burke's phone. Investigators believe that David Burke met
Celeste when she was just eleven years old. This is
(05:45):
what the court filing says. So anyway, that's where we're
at with that. We'll continue to follow that case and
give updates on it. That is insane, the case of
Regina row Hicks. And this actually takes place in Ohio.
(06:06):
A lot of cases in Ohio, A lot of things
happen in Ohio. I don't know why we've even talked
about this before when you talk about forensic files.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
For somethingause you're from Ohio.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I'm from Ohio. But for some reason, I don't know
if anyone else out there is obsessed with forensic files
like I am. Now, you will notice if you go
back and watch it. It's on Hulu, all the old episodes.
If you go back and watch it, nine times out
of ten, okay, eight times out of ten, if you
watch an episode, it'll start out in Ohio. I don't
know why. All right, So let's get to this case.
(06:36):
So in October of two thousand and one, we're going
to go back in time to two thousand and one,
twenty five year old Regina Roe Hicks was reported missing
in Huron County, Ohio, after failing to pick up her
four year old son from her estranged husband, Paul Hicks.
Four days later, her car was found submerged in a
pond in Willard, Ohio, with her body in the passenger seat.
(06:58):
The case went cold for nearly twenty four years. Suspicion
had long centered around her husband or ex husband, Paul,
but no formal charges were ever placed against him. A
key breakthrough and this case came when Paul was arrested
for a separate arson incident that occurred in twenty fifteen.
(07:19):
Regina's case was reopened shortly after, and investigators were finally
able to solve the cold case after two decades. This
was also I watched this. It was an twenty twenty
episode that aired recently. Yeah, it aired on May first.
It's a twenty twenty episode. It's titled The Secret in
(07:39):
the Water. It aired on May first of twenty twenty six.
All right, so let's go back in time a little
bit before two thousand and one, talk about the marriage
and separation of Regina Rowe and Paul Hicks. So they
were high school sweethearts, and they were married and they
had a son together in nineteen ninety seven named Montana.
(07:59):
Two thousand and one, the marriage had deteriorated and Regina
was estranged from Paul. Their son was four years old
at this time. Then in October eighteenth of two thousand
and one, this is when she disappears. Regina dropped her
four year old son, Montana, off at the home of
Steve Gates. Steve Gates is very important, so we need
to remember his name because he come up later. But
(08:22):
he was Paul's best friend. His name is Steve Gates
and he lived in Huron County, Ohio. Regina was supposed
to return around eight pm to pick up her son, Montana.
He's at Steve gates house the way I understand. I
don't know if they clarified this or not, but I
assume because they're divorce or custody and everything that was
going on was so contentious that Steve Gates was probably
(08:44):
his home was probably the drop off pickup place for
custody exchanges. Regina was then supposed to return around eight
pm to pick up her son, but Paul and Steve
claimed that she never showed up. All right. So then
on October twenty second, in two thousand and one, so
(09:06):
that's four days after she went missing, Regina's Camaro was
found submerged in a pond in Willard, Ohio. Her body
was found inside in the passenger seat, and she was
covered in mud.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I was maybe I'll get into it, but how was
the body? Was it drowned? Was it a result of drowning?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, the cause of death was drowning, but she had
also suffered three head injuries before going into the water,
which were enough to knock her out but were not deadly.
There was no DNA evidence present at the scene. So
between two thousand and one in twenty seventeen, the case
goes cold, despite a lot of suspicion falling on her
(09:45):
ex husband Paul.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That wait, sorry, that's interesting. So she's in the passenger seat.
It's clearly murder, right, foul play, right, And yet they
had and you'd think they'd have something. You think there'd
be a lot of some evidence on the car where
a about something and there was nothing.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Nothing, No, And again when she was supposed to pick
up the sun from Steve gates house. Steve Gates always
claimed that she never showed up that night, So basically
they don't have any indication as to where she was
from that during that time period. So despite suspicion falling
(10:26):
on Paul, her husband early on, investigators lacked the evidence
to charge him, and the case sat cold for over
a decade and a half. Paul moved on, eventually relocating
to Claremont County in southern Ohio. All right, so he's
just living his life now.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
He's like, that was easy. Yeah, so he's going to
have to use my own car.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So then we get to June of twenty fifteen. This
is where he messed up. This man would have never
gotten caught if he would not have tried this scheme
that he tries right now, So June of twenty fifteen,
he oh.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Wait, wait, wait before you get for that, I want
to get the basic time. So this is an one murder,
yes right right? It goes cold right like they don't
have anything, right.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Right, nothing, And then he goes on and is living
his best room and they even know what day she
How long until they found her in the pond? Four
days okay, so really soon after and then it goes
cold and then what year are we in now? So
then in June of twenty fifteen, Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So fifteen basically fourteen fifteen years later, right, So.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
He's just been living a normal life, doing his own thing. Right,
So he has I think it's an investment property because
it says that he bought a property, but it's I
think it's supposed to be an investment property. But a
fire breaks out at this property he owns in Claremont County.
Now this is the catalyst for him getting charged. So
(11:46):
I was saying, if he would not have tried to
defraud the insurance company, then he would have never gotten caught.
So there's a fire that breaks out on his property
owned by him, and Paul immediately blames a former girlfriend,
claiming that she had set the fire. They actually, so
there's a fire there. The fire department shows up. It's
(12:07):
a it's an explosive fire. Then they bring Paul in
because they're like, you know, your house is on fire
and it looks like arson because immediately I think when
they're walking around, well, yeah, it was immediately known that
it was arson because there were gas cans laying around.
Then Paul says, oh, I have security footage, and so
(12:30):
they pull up security footage at the inside. It shows
two people walking around the.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
House, asks or anything.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It's so interesting that you ask about a mask, because
this is the most interesting thing I think I've ever
seen in any story or any true crime. This literally
blew my mind when I was watching this. So he says, hey,
I've got security video. Let's pull it up. So they
pull up security footage and they see two people, a
man and a woman, enter the house with gas cans
and they're just pouring gas everywhere and they're just gonna
(13:01):
light this house on fire. They have I forget what
they called the suits, but they had the suits on,
you know, they called it something else, but yeah, something
like that where they're fully covered. Now, the man you
can't tell who he is, right, but the woman has
curly blonde hair that is very evident. She did pull
(13:23):
the curly blonde hair that's like hanging down out of
them out of her you know.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Well, yeah, but if you're gonna be disguised, you would
hide your hair, right, you would put in a ponytail
or put it back right. No, this hair is she's
showing it. What you're saying. She's wearing this beekeeper suit
and she's still showing her hair, right.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And she also has she also looks at the camera
with her face and her face is not covered, so
it's it's very Yeah, she's probably I'm surprised they didn't
take her license and throw it down on the table.
But she also looks into the security camera to make
sure that her face shows up on the camera, and
(14:00):
it does. Yeah. So then Paul is like, that's my
ex girlfriend who he has a child with, by the way,
and he's like blaming her. That's her, that's what she
looks like. You know, that's her face, that's her hair. So,
according to investigators, Paul had constructed an elaborate scheme to
frame her, allegedly motivated by a desire to gain custody
(14:22):
of the child he shared with her and to collect
insurance money. My goodness, So this scheme was not only
to make her end up arrested right for arson, but
then to have custody of the child that he doesn't
have to pay child sport. He gets insurance money and
he and she goes to jail. So this scheme is like,
I mean, he's a mastermind, right. He wants her to
(14:43):
go to prison, he wants custody of the child and
he's going to get insurance money out of all this scheme.
So investigators, this is my favorite part. Investigators discovered that
he had purchased a custom made wearable silicone mask and
wig does to look like his ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
They have record of him buying this.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yes, there's a company I want to find. I need
to find the name of this company. I don't remember
what it was called. It's like, I don't know, some
face mask company where you can upload photos of a
face and then they make a custom mask to look
exactly like that face. So he ordered a.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Good Housewives episode, right, Yeah, I know he can wear
each other's mask, right, and then you'd go visit Shannon
and say your Gina.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Gina.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So he orders this custom mask to look like his
ex girlfriend and then has I don't know who was
wearing it, probably some friend or him. I don't know,
because I think he's the other. I think he's the man.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Oh yeah, but it was. And the man has a
mask or regular mask on to cover his face.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
No, the man, it is covered. You can't tell.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
How is his face I disguised?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I don't remember. I think he's just you can't or
he never looks at the security camera. You just can't
tell who that man is.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I didn't have his flashy hair, no.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
But the woman that's dressed up like his ex girlfriend
clearly had instructions to not cover her face and to
look directly into the security camera. Right. So you know,
the investigators end up questioning the ex wife and she
she was cooperative or she wasn't an ex wife, she's
a girlfriend that he had a child with. But she's cooperative, cooperative.
(16:22):
She there's no digital evidence on her phone that you know, she's.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
There's nothing else that leads her to this.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Crust, right, And she's has an alibi, I believe. And
also the investigators are like, if you're going to go
set a house on fire, why would you not cover
your hair and your face and why are you looking
directly into the camera. Right, So then they find you know,
obviously this digital.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Foot thread that forensic file is. Remember where it was.
It was like female had died and it was violent.
So she's on the floor, bloody and stuff, and in
the on the wall was written like the initials or
the name of her ex boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Oh, it was in the kitchen on the cabinet.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Right, Yeah, And and and her finger was pointing to
it as well that she yeah, you know, unfortunate was deceased.
And then it turned out she's left handed, not right handed,
and and the blood and everything was used with the
right hand, right, because you had blood in the rain. Right,
So what was this case of oh the mask?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, the mask?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, so you're you're throwing them off the investigation.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Right, Well, that was his attempt. And they also found
on his phone so they could see they they sent
a subpoena to this company to get the order, and
the the.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Investigator mask company's name, So.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I think the company is called something like that's my face.
So I don't know. You can try and google it,
but dot com, Oh you found it, that's my face
dot com. So anyway, on his phone, investigators found all
of the photos of his ex girlfriend that he used
to upload to order this mask. So you know, everything's
(17:57):
being corroborated. Right then into twenty seventeen, this is Regina's
cold case reopens because investigators now know that he's you know,
he burned down his own house to try to blame
her and to try to send her creepy yeah, and
then to try to get the insurance money. So what
(18:18):
happens is they end up reopening the cold case with
Regina and her murder, so the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
Investigation takes over Regina's case. The Arson case helped reframe
Paul as someone capable of constructing elaborate criminal plots and
lying to investigators. All right, Then on January sixteenth of
(18:39):
twenty nineteen, Paul is indicted for Arson. Paul surrendered to
authorities and was indicted on two counts of aggravated Arson
insurance fraud and three counts of perjury, and the perjury
was related to the lies that he told during the
Arson investigation. Are you looking up the mask company? Did
(19:01):
you find it?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah? I bet there's a lot more to it than
looking it up and stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, yeah, you have to upload a lot of photos.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Well yeah, no, I mean it's pretty it's pretty high
tech stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I don't know what the market is for that though.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I don't know, but I'd believe he paid like three
hundred and fifty dollars or something for the mask.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I just wonder what the I could have gone down
a rabbit hole I had to get. Yeah, but I'm
wondering what the market is for that?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Like, why someone would want a mask of someone else's face? Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I mean I want one now, I want to try it.
All right, Well I want to get you a mask.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Okay, well maybe for another if you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Smiling, so I'll just put it on you all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
They Oh, mom's happy today.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yay. So I should get up every morning and just
put my smiling mask on.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yes. So.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Then in twenty twenty two, Paul pleaded guilty to a
single misdemeanor count of insurance fraud. The aggravated arson and
perjury charges were dropped, and he was sentenced to probation.
Regina's family voiced their disappointment for this lenient outcome, as
most of them believe Paul was also responsible for Regina's
death and wanted to see him punished. All right, then
we're going. Three years later, we get to April of
(20:23):
twenty twenty five, when he finally gets indicted for murder.
A hero On County grand jury indicted Paul Hicks on
three counts of murder and one count of kidnapping in
Regina Rowe Hicks death, and he pleaded not guilty. I'll
tell you I believe from watching the twenty twenty episode,
they there was a podcaster who did true crime and
(20:45):
she became very obsessed with this case with Regina, and
she went back and she dug through the case. She
did multiple episodes on it, and she was talking about
the case. Then she starts naming the longtime friend, Steve
Gates in her podcast, calling him out. So I believe
my takeaway.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Was that as an accomplished to all this, yes.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That he was lying that he really knows what happened,
like he's the key to solving this case, and she's
doing this on a podcast and she's naming him, and
I think the pressure got to him because that was
really the catalysts as to why they now had sufficient
evidence to be able to indict Paul Hicks on murder surface.
(21:30):
So Steve Gates, Paul's longtime friend, was the centerpiece of
the state's case. He was testifying under a grant of immunity,
and Gates said that Regina did come to his house
to pick up Montana. So I think the catalyst was
his podcast calling him out. And I think maybe people
it had been many years were talking, you know, twenty
years later or whatever. So I think he had a
(21:51):
change of heart. He finally decides to come clean, so
he is the prosecution's key witness. He came forward and
said that he was there and he knows what happened
that night. Because remember, originally he was saying that Regina
never showed up at his house.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Oh yeah, that's right, right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Because he's the friend where Montana, the son and a
four year old son.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
No, it's not just he's staying at home and she's
not showing up like he was a part of it.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
He's saying, she did show up, and I know what happened.
So that's the evidence that they have now. So Steve
gates his new story. He now claims that he saw
Paul and Regina arguing outside her camaro, so he briefly
stepped inside to his garage. He said also that they
argued all the time, that the relationship was always volatile.
(22:34):
So he steps into the garage, then he returned. He
leaves the garage to find Regina crumpled up in the
front passenger seat.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So he's saying he stepped away from the argument, and
then when he came back, she's now in the.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Passenger seat, right, And if you recall based upon the
medical examiner, she had three kind of like blunt force
trauma injuries on top of her head, but not enough
to kill her, but enough to capacitate. Yeah, Crystal Hicks.
Paul's sister testified against him in court that that evening
(23:07):
she saw muddy clothes in her bathtub after Regina's disappearance,
and a former girlfriend of Paul's testified about conversations in
which he discussed manipulating polygraph tests and a scheme to.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Play does everyone come up with this stuff now I know?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
And also that he had spoken about a scheme to
plant drugs and Regina's car in order to gain leverage
in their custody dispute. So the sister, yeah, you know.
The sister comes forward twenty years later and says, hey,
the night after Regina disappeared, I came home. She said
she came home from work early, so he wasn't expecting
her to come home at that time, and that the
(23:43):
bathroom bathtub was filled with muddy clothes and that he
was trying to clean up stuff. I mean, how suspicious
is that when they know that Regina disappeared and a Camaro.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And came home and I had muddy shoes or whatever
it was in a bathtub and a bathtub, what would
be your.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
First thought would be like, what the hell were you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah? Well, yeah, well do you see how angry Emily gets.
All you have to do is say what were you
doing today? Instead you act mad?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, if you if you had muddy boots and clothes,
why why do you have mighty clothes? Yes?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well no, normal spouses would say why do you have
mighty clothes? You say, what was it?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
What the hell are you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Exactly, Well, because you're not You're not a muddy guy.
I've been married to you for seventeen years and you've
never come home with mud on.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Right, It's not like I fish every weekend, so it's like,
oh he went fishing those there's gloshes. No, you would
be like, what.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Do you say galoshes?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Is that what they're called? Galoshes?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah? This is funny to hear you say goloshes.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Because I because I don't normally use it in my vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I've never heard you say galoshes before.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Have you ever heard me say fishing before?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Probably mighty boots in a bathtub. Yeah, So anyway, thanks
for make me lose my train of thought.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh, you're welcome, all right. So the defense is strategy.
What's the defense strategy to be. You've got Steve Gates.
First of all, again, let's just reiterate, there is no
DNA evidence. They still had the car in the exact
same condition as it was when they pulled it out
of that pond back in two thousand, because.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Do you know how long you're supposed to preserve the
evidence of a murder case? How long forever?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right, So the car is still preserved, it's not it's
still as muddy as it was when it came out.
No DNAT, you know, but they found for this murder
trial against him, there's no DNA, no forensics, no hair, no.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
There's nothing. There's nothing linking him. So the only evidence
that they have against him in this trial is Steve
gatesimony testimony. That's evidence, it is.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
But what's the defense going to do. They're going to say,
why did he He lied in the beginning, so what
why would the jury believe him? Now? Right, that's the
that's the whole defense strategy. He's a known liar. He
lied before, he lied to prosecutors, he to the police,
he lied to everyone, why should we believe him now?
So the defense attacked the credibility of Steve Gates, who
(26:07):
had been granted immunity, raising obvious bias questions, right because
he's now granted immunity from having anything to do with this,
and pointed to the absence of forensic evidence. They also
floated the idea that someone else could have been responsible.
So that's the defense, right. They just want to plant
reasonable doubt in the jury's minds. They want to say,
(26:29):
why are you guys going to believe him? He lied
all the time? What makes you think that he's not
lying now? Also, they did not show Paul Gates testimony.
So in Ohio you can record trials and you can
publicly disseminate them. Okay, However, if you do not want,
if you testify and you do not want your image
(26:51):
out there, you can request that your image not be shown.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
So the default is it's public. It's public, but you
can make a request.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But you can make a request.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So who so who made the Requestates.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
The star witness who was testifying, now changing his story
and saying that he does know what happened. He requested
that his image and his testimony not be shown. So
they So in this episode of twenty twenty, they show
his sister testifying against him, they show an ex girlfriend
testifying against him, but you do not see Steve gates
testimony or his new image at all. I don't know.
(27:25):
He probably, I don't know. I think he wanted to
do the right thing, but he probably doesn't want to.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Maybe the reason why he lied from the beginning, he
just wants to stay out of it.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Probably. Okay, So Paul's trial lasted approximately two weeks and
then he was found guilty of murder and kidnapping. Okay, Okay,
this is.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Like twenty years later then, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
So January ninth of twenty twenty six, so this was
actually fairly recent. Paul Hicks was sentenced to twenty five
years to life in prison, which the way I understood
it and the way they explained it was he has
to spend a minimum of twenty five years in prison
before he's eligible for parole. Yeah, he will, no, but
he will be eligible for parole after twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I don't think this guy twenty five to life is
it means twenty well, it means twenty five years minimum
and up to life, right, but.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
At twenty five years he will then be without parole.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Is just what we think of as life.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I know, I guess I just wanted to clarify that
in twenty five years this man is eligible for parole,
which I don't think is enough time considering not only.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Do I already had twenty years out in the public
and he was free.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Right, But he's also also the killer. Right. But he's
also just even with the arson and the insurance fraud
and you know, trying to frame the ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, it's just killing his baby's mama and keeping that
child from having a mother. It's horrible. Would you ever
have thought you could go online and order a mask
to look like me?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But he did, now I know, I know he did. Yeah,
I mean that guy is Did you see that video?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah? It shows that you want.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Does she look like a female, like her mannerisms and stuff?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It could be him?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
No, I know it's no, it's I mean this this
woman is shortened. Oh it's not him and kind of bigger. Yeah,
so it's not him. No, there's a man that's tall
and thin, and then there is a short Does it
look like her?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
The X the face mask?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Does it it's hard to tell because the security video
is black and white.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
So but is that enough to kind of think it
could be?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, I think yeah if. But it's also again you're
watching it, going, why does this woman have like all
her hair down and out and her face uncovered? I mean,
it's it's kind of ridiculous when you watch it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Isn't she has a necklace with her initials on it.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, I mean it's yeah exactly, it's it's kind of
ridiculous looking at it. But I mean you should watch
it just because.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's now I want a mask.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Now that you know that the woman's wearing a mask
to look like his ex girlfriend in order to frame her.
You watch it and you're like, this is these two
are It's just ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So yeah, I'd love to see like like the uh,
like the behind the scenes footage of them like prepping
for this crime, right, like yeah that looks good.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah yeah, put your hair forward so they can see it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Now, make which photos did they upload of her, you know,
to get the mask?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
And they show the photos, they show the order form.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Oh that's right because they have it. It's all digital,
because they said.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
The prosecutor said that in like all of his existence
of prosecuting, he never had someone fully comply with a
subpoena like that, because they subpoena the company.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And then probably have a whole department where they handle
subpoenas for all the homicide investigations.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So then he was like they the information he got
back from the subpoena, He's like, they got the order,
they got the photos, they got the everything.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Oh yeah, it's not their first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
No, he's just like, you know, I mean, can you imagine, though,
that's a win when you're a prosecutor and you're you're
prosecuting someone and you're trying to build a case against them,
and you send a subpoena, and you know, when you
send a subpoena.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Nine times out of test they.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Toss them out, they block them, they do everything, proact everything,
they don't reply, they do everything possible to not comply
with a subpoena. So the fact that this prosecutor sends
a subpoena and then he just gets back, you know,
the order, the photos that were used, Paul Hicks's you know,
email address or like whatever he used to order, and
(31:28):
the amount and probably his credit.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Card and also signed a form or agreed to some
terms that he wouldn't use it to commit crimes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Probably, So I mean that was that was pretty interesting anyway,
all right, So he sent us to twenty five years
to life. I guess we'll follow this case if we're
alive in twenty five years to see if he's pearoled.
So hopefully not. He someone like that deserves to spend
the rest of their life in prison, So that's my thought. Oh, also,
one last thought on this. They did they never showed
(31:58):
the sun Montana, who was four at the time but
now he's obviously an adult in his late twenties. It
did show a statement. He wrote a statement that they
read in court. He did not go to court. He
did not appear in the documentary or in this episode
of twenty twenty at all. And I don't know how
I felt about what he wrote. I did feel badly
(32:19):
for him, but he wrote something to the effect of, like,
you know, he'd lost his mom, but he also he
did not believe that his dad had anything to do
with it, and now he lost his father too, so
he has no parents, which is sad for him. But
I just felt like it was also sad that it
seemed like he wasn't fully grasping like his dad's involvement.
(32:40):
I don't think he was on board with believing that
and believing that.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I imagine it's different if you grow up and you
have parents and you're of an age where you maybe
have a good memory, like you're in your teens or something,
where you have a lot of experiences with your parents
and memories, and then you come to learn, maybe even
in real time, that you know one parent killed the other. Yeah,
But then when you know, at age four, he's gonna
(33:06):
have very little memories of his mother, just maybe some images,
right and in whatever he was told after he was
four about her. So then he grows up never really
knowing her, sadly, and then come to learn that like, oh,
this person that was never my wife my life, they
say my father killed and he's telling me, no, you're
just probably not as invested in it. I mean, you
(33:29):
could be, but it could be in a situation like
this where he's not emotionally investing in because it wasn't
in real time. It was a long time ago. He
never got to know his mother to be sad that
she's dead. Other than this the fact that he doesn't
have a mother, so that might have kind of set
him back a little bit not been so emotionally well
I acted.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I also wish in this.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Oh if that made sense, but a little but made
a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Okay. So this was called ABC's twenty twenty episode. It's
called The Secret in the Water. If you're interested in
watching it. Also, if you have any thoughts or information
or more information on this case, I love to hear it,
so make sure you dm me on Instagram. Also, please
be sure to follow legally Brunette. All of our episodes
go into the legally Brunette feeds, so if you're listening
(34:14):
to us on two t's that's great, but not every
episode goes in there, so make sure you follow us
on legally Brunette. Also, please be sure to tell your
friends and family to listen. And again, thank you so
much for your recommendations and for listening. We appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And then you're you always forget you got to tell people,
advise them. Oh, go ahead, divorce before.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Murder, death, divorce before death. That is our PSA until death,
do us part. I don't care what your religion is
or I don't care how bad you're gonna look, or
I don't care what your custody arrangement is.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Murder is always always bad.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That is the bad choice, all right, So make good
choices people.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, honesty is the best policy, right.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
So is not murder?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Okay, you have to stop talking. I can try to
end this episode. You just keep adding things at the end.
Thank you.
Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Till Death Do
Us Part. I'll be your host, Emily Simpson with Shane Shane.
All right, Shane, today, we're just going to do a
little update before we get into the case that we're
going to talk about. And the case that we're going
to talk about is a woman named Regina Rowe Hicks
and it's an older case that was just recently solved,
(00:22):
so it's really interesting. But before we get into that,
let's do an update on David and the Celeste Rivus Hernandez. So, prosecutors,
I don't know if you've seen this is the singer
David that remember they found his tesla and then they
body in the back and it was a long time.
It was in the front that's right, the front front,
the fronk. Is that what it's called front trunk, the
(00:46):
front trunk, the fronk. And then there was a long
period of time between when the body was found and
then actually arresting him. But now that he's been arrested,
there's a lot more information that has been coming out,
which is is.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
He still in custody? Is he dislike detained this whole time?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So prosecutors alleged that David Burke oh I also did
read that his music label dropped him, so yeah, yeah,
really yeah. David Burke arranged for Celeste to be transported
to his Hollywood Hills home on April twenty third, twenty
twenty five, and stabbed her to silence her, claiming that
she was threatening to expose their relationship, which would have
(01:24):
damaged his music career.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Murder would damage your your career also.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
But instead of just you know, trying to do the
right thing and break up and take accountability for it,
he decides that.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
He should put her in the front.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, he has to stab her first, so he has
her come over to his home on April twenty third. Allegedly,
Burke also bought two chainsaws online and he used the
chainsaws to dismember Celeste's body what in an inflatable pool.
He also ordered the pool one of those plastics like
bard kit. Yeah, her DNA was found in his garage.
(02:03):
He used someone else's name to purchase the chainsaws and
the inflatable pool, but the but they were delivered to
his home. So that's like as far as he went.
And this like mastermind of like getting rid of this body.
Is I'll just use someone else's name to purchase it,
and then it just gets delivered to my home address.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And why do you want two chainsaws?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I guess he thought maybe if the first one broke,
he had a backup. I don't know, but he ordered
two chainsaws and one of those little plastic kitty inflatable pools.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And that was so heasy, have any kids, No, but he.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Put the He clearly put her body into the pool
and then dismembered her inside of this plastic pool in
order to keep you know, all the blood and everything
you know, within this plastic pool. Her DNA was found
in his garage. The court filing claims that Burke amputated
her left ring and pinky fingers because her ring finger
(02:57):
contained a tattoo of his name. Her fingers have not
been recovered. They say that Celeste was killed with two
penetrating torso wounds consistent with sharp force injuries, per the
autopsy report that was unsealed on April twenty second of
twenty twenty six. Prosecutors have also alleged that David Burke
(03:18):
did a radio interview the morning after the killing. A
widely recirculated clip shows him previously explaining a foul smell
in his home. I saw that clip on Instagram. It
was him with some friends at his house and he
was like joking around making reference to like just ignore
that smell, like he claimed it was because he just
(03:39):
went to the bathroom or something. But I believe that
clearly he was like indicating.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That this video of him saying that.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, that it was around the same time that she
is his cari.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Why does it keep her in the car until he
sells it or what.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I don't know. I don't understand. I don't understand how.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Like the kid that hides the underwear in the drawer
and I think no one's going to see it, but
it's like eventually you gotta do something, right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean, his plan was nothing other than she's going
to expose me for an inappropriate relationship, which is going
to ruin my music career. So let me have her
come over to my house. I'm going to murder her
and then I'm going to dismember her in my garage
and then I'm gonna take the remains. I'm gonna put
him in my tesla, and then I'm just gonna leave
my tesla. Parks on the side of the road, Like
that's as far as he got, first of all, to
(04:21):
be able to dismember a body that takes a special
kind of psychopath I'll never understand that. I can't even
I can't even like when my nail breaks and I
have to like and it breaks up high and you
have to like rip it off like that just is disturbing.
That's to me, that's.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Not entirely accurate. You watch all those surgery videos and
nasty stuff like that, and I got no problem saying,
someone get cut up. What you when you watch the
surgery video.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It is completely different to watch up last.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I can't watch that stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, but I know that the person's gonna look better
in the end and be happy, and they're gonna be
hot with their new breasts. Not that they're being dismembered.
That's vile.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, clearly one's violent and one's not. But they're both
cutting someone up and you have blood and guts everywhere.
Fair statement.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
No, surgery is very controlled, it's very precise.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
This is it's a science.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
This is a chainsaw. They're not the same, all right.
Digital evidence. At an April twenty third hearing, prosecutors disclose
that investigators found a significant amount of child abuse material
on David Burke's phone. Investigators believe that David Burke met
Celeste when she was just eleven years old. This is
(05:45):
what the court filing says. So anyway, that's where we're
at with that. We'll continue to follow that case and
give updates on it. That is insane, the case of
Regina row Hicks. And this actually takes place in Ohio.
(06:06):
A lot of cases in Ohio, A lot of things
happen in Ohio. I don't know why we've even talked
about this before when you talk about forensic files.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
For somethingause you're from Ohio.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I'm from Ohio. But for some reason, I don't know
if anyone else out there is obsessed with forensic files
like I am. Now, you will notice if you go
back and watch it. It's on Hulu, all the old episodes.
If you go back and watch it, nine times out
of ten, okay, eight times out of ten, if you
watch an episode, it'll start out in Ohio. I don't
know why. All right, So let's get to this case.
(06:36):
So in October of two thousand and one, we're going
to go back in time to two thousand and one,
twenty five year old Regina Roe Hicks was reported missing
in Huron County, Ohio, after failing to pick up her
four year old son from her estranged husband, Paul Hicks.
Four days later, her car was found submerged in a
pond in Willard, Ohio, with her body in the passenger seat.
(06:58):
The case went cold for nearly twenty four years. Suspicion
had long centered around her husband or ex husband, Paul,
but no formal charges were ever placed against him. A
key breakthrough and this case came when Paul was arrested
for a separate arson incident that occurred in twenty fifteen.
(07:19):
Regina's case was reopened shortly after, and investigators were finally
able to solve the cold case after two decades. This
was also I watched this. It was an twenty twenty
episode that aired recently. Yeah, it aired on May first.
It's a twenty twenty episode. It's titled The Secret in
(07:39):
the Water. It aired on May first of twenty twenty six.
All right, so let's go back in time a little
bit before two thousand and one, talk about the marriage
and separation of Regina Rowe and Paul Hicks. So they
were high school sweethearts, and they were married and they
had a son together in nineteen ninety seven named Montana.
(07:59):
Two thousand and one, the marriage had deteriorated and Regina
was estranged from Paul. Their son was four years old
at this time. Then in October eighteenth of two thousand
and one, this is when she disappears. Regina dropped her
four year old son, Montana, off at the home of
Steve Gates. Steve Gates is very important, so we need
to remember his name because he come up later. But
(08:22):
he was Paul's best friend. His name is Steve Gates
and he lived in Huron County, Ohio. Regina was supposed
to return around eight pm to pick up her son, Montana.
He's at Steve gates house the way I understand. I
don't know if they clarified this or not, but I
assume because they're divorce or custody and everything that was
going on was so contentious that Steve Gates was probably
(08:44):
his home was probably the drop off pickup place for
custody exchanges. Regina was then supposed to return around eight
pm to pick up her son, but Paul and Steve
claimed that she never showed up. All right. So then
on October twenty second, in two thousand and one, so
(09:06):
that's four days after she went missing, Regina's Camaro was
found submerged in a pond in Willard, Ohio. Her body
was found inside in the passenger seat, and she was
covered in mud.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I was maybe I'll get into it, but how was
the body? Was it drowned? Was it a result of drowning?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, the cause of death was drowning, but she had
also suffered three head injuries before going into the water,
which were enough to knock her out but were not deadly.
There was no DNA evidence present at the scene. So
between two thousand and one in twenty seventeen, the case
goes cold, despite a lot of suspicion falling on her
(09:45):
ex husband Paul.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
That wait, sorry, that's interesting. So she's in the passenger seat.
It's clearly murder, right, foul play, right, And yet they
had and you'd think they'd have something. You think there'd
be a lot of some evidence on the car where
a about something and there was nothing.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Nothing, No, And again when she was supposed to pick
up the sun from Steve gates house. Steve Gates always
claimed that she never showed up that night, So basically
they don't have any indication as to where she was
from that during that time period. So despite suspicion falling
(10:26):
on Paul, her husband early on, investigators lacked the evidence
to charge him, and the case sat cold for over
a decade and a half. Paul moved on, eventually relocating
to Claremont County in southern Ohio. All right, so he's
just living his life now.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
He's like, that was easy. Yeah, so he's going to
have to use my own car.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So then we get to June of twenty fifteen. This
is where he messed up. This man would have never
gotten caught if he would not have tried this scheme
that he tries right now, So June of twenty fifteen,
he oh.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Wait, wait, wait before you get for that, I want
to get the basic time. So this is an one murder,
yes right right? It goes cold right like they don't
have anything, right.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Right, nothing, And then he goes on and is living
his best room and they even know what day she
How long until they found her in the pond? Four
days okay, so really soon after and then it goes
cold and then what year are we in now? So
then in June of twenty fifteen, Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So fifteen basically fourteen fifteen years later, right, So.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
He's just been living a normal life, doing his own thing. Right,
So he has I think it's an investment property because
it says that he bought a property, but it's I
think it's supposed to be an investment property. But a
fire breaks out at this property he owns in Claremont County.
Now this is the catalyst for him getting charged. So
(11:46):
I was saying, if he would not have tried to
defraud the insurance company, then he would have never gotten caught.
So there's a fire that breaks out on his property
owned by him, and Paul immediately blames a former girlfriend,
claiming that she had set the fire. They actually, so
there's a fire there. The fire department shows up. It's
(12:07):
a it's an explosive fire. Then they bring Paul in
because they're like, you know, your house is on fire
and it looks like arson because immediately I think when
they're walking around, well, yeah, it was immediately known that
it was arson because there were gas cans laying around.
Then Paul says, oh, I have security footage, and so
(12:30):
they pull up security footage at the inside. It shows
two people walking around the.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
House, asks or anything.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It's so interesting that you ask about a mask, because
this is the most interesting thing I think I've ever
seen in any story or any true crime. This literally
blew my mind when I was watching this. So he says, hey,
I've got security video. Let's pull it up. So they
pull up security footage and they see two people, a
man and a woman, enter the house with gas cans
and they're just pouring gas everywhere and they're just gonna
(13:01):
light this house on fire. They have I forget what
they called the suits, but they had the suits on,
you know, they called it something else, but yeah, something
like that where they're fully covered. Now, the man you
can't tell who he is, right, but the woman has
curly blonde hair that is very evident. She did pull
(13:23):
the curly blonde hair that's like hanging down out of
them out of her you know.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Well, yeah, but if you're gonna be disguised, you would
hide your hair, right, you would put in a ponytail
or put it back right. No, this hair is she's
showing it. What you're saying. She's wearing this beekeeper suit
and she's still showing her hair, right.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And she also has she also looks at the camera
with her face and her face is not covered, so
it's it's very Yeah, she's probably I'm surprised they didn't
take her license and throw it down on the table.
But she also looks into the security camera to make
sure that her face shows up on the camera, and
(14:00):
it does. Yeah. So then Paul is like, that's my
ex girlfriend who he has a child with, by the way,
and he's like blaming her. That's her, that's what she
looks like. You know, that's her face, that's her hair. So,
according to investigators, Paul had constructed an elaborate scheme to
frame her, allegedly motivated by a desire to gain custody
(14:22):
of the child he shared with her and to collect
insurance money. My goodness, So this scheme was not only
to make her end up arrested right for arson, but
then to have custody of the child that he doesn't
have to pay child sport. He gets insurance money and
he and she goes to jail. So this scheme is like,
I mean, he's a mastermind, right. He wants her to
(14:43):
go to prison, he wants custody of the child and
he's going to get insurance money out of all this scheme.
So investigators, this is my favorite part. Investigators discovered that
he had purchased a custom made wearable silicone mask and
wig does to look like his ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
They have record of him buying this.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yes, there's a company I want to find. I need
to find the name of this company. I don't remember
what it was called. It's like, I don't know, some
face mask company where you can upload photos of a
face and then they make a custom mask to look
exactly like that face. So he ordered a.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Good Housewives episode, right, Yeah, I know he can wear
each other's mask, right, and then you'd go visit Shannon
and say your Gina.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Gina.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So he orders this custom mask to look like his
ex girlfriend and then has I don't know who was
wearing it, probably some friend or him. I don't know,
because I think he's the other. I think he's the man.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Oh yeah, but it was. And the man has a
mask or regular mask on to cover his face.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
No, the man, it is covered. You can't tell.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
How is his face I disguised?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I don't remember. I think he's just you can't or
he never looks at the security camera. You just can't
tell who that man is.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I didn't have his flashy hair, no.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
But the woman that's dressed up like his ex girlfriend
clearly had instructions to not cover her face and to
look directly into the security camera. Right. So you know,
the investigators end up questioning the ex wife and she
she was cooperative or she wasn't an ex wife, she's
a girlfriend that he had a child with. But she's cooperative, cooperative.
(16:22):
She there's no digital evidence on her phone that you know, she's.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
There's nothing else that leads her to this.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Crust, right, And she's has an alibi, I believe. And
also the investigators are like, if you're going to go
set a house on fire, why would you not cover
your hair and your face and why are you looking
directly into the camera. Right, So then they find you know,
obviously this digital.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Foot thread that forensic file is. Remember where it was.
It was like female had died and it was violent.
So she's on the floor, bloody and stuff, and in
the on the wall was written like the initials or
the name of her ex boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Oh, it was in the kitchen on the cabinet.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Right, Yeah, And and and her finger was pointing to
it as well that she yeah, you know, unfortunate was deceased.
And then it turned out she's left handed, not right handed,
and and the blood and everything was used with the
right hand, right, because you had blood in the rain. Right,
So what was this case of oh the mask?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, the mask?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, so you're you're throwing them off the investigation.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Right, Well, that was his attempt. And they also found
on his phone so they could see they they sent
a subpoena to this company to get the order, and
the the.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Investigator mask company's name, So.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I think the company is called something like that's my face.
So I don't know. You can try and google it,
but dot com, Oh you found it, that's my face
dot com. So anyway, on his phone, investigators found all
of the photos of his ex girlfriend that he used
to upload to order this mask. So you know, everything's
(17:57):
being corroborated. Right then into twenty seventeen, this is Regina's
cold case reopens because investigators now know that he's you know,
he burned down his own house to try to blame
her and to try to send her creepy yeah, and
then to try to get the insurance money. So what
(18:18):
happens is they end up reopening the cold case with
Regina and her murder, so the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
Investigation takes over Regina's case. The Arson case helped reframe
Paul as someone capable of constructing elaborate criminal plots and
lying to investigators. All right, Then on January sixteenth of
(18:39):
twenty nineteen, Paul is indicted for Arson. Paul surrendered to
authorities and was indicted on two counts of aggravated Arson
insurance fraud and three counts of perjury, and the perjury
was related to the lies that he told during the
Arson investigation. Are you looking up the mask company? Did
(19:01):
you find it?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah? I bet there's a lot more to it than
looking it up and stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Well, yeah, you have to upload a lot of photos.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Well yeah, no, I mean it's pretty it's pretty high
tech stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I don't know what the market is for that though.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I don't know, but I'd believe he paid like three
hundred and fifty dollars or something for the mask.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I just wonder what the I could have gone down
a rabbit hole I had to get. Yeah, but I'm
wondering what the market is for that?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Like, why someone would want a mask of someone else's face? Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I mean I want one now, I want to try it.
All right, Well I want to get you a mask.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Okay, well maybe for another if you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Smiling, so I'll just put it on you all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
They Oh, mom's happy today.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yay. So I should get up every morning and just
put my smiling mask on.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yes. So.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Then in twenty twenty two, Paul pleaded guilty to a
single misdemeanor count of insurance fraud. The aggravated arson and
perjury charges were dropped, and he was sentenced to probation.
Regina's family voiced their disappointment for this lenient outcome, as
most of them believe Paul was also responsible for Regina's
death and wanted to see him punished. All right, then
we're going. Three years later, we get to April of
(20:23):
twenty twenty five, when he finally gets indicted for murder.
A hero On County grand jury indicted Paul Hicks on
three counts of murder and one count of kidnapping in
Regina Rowe Hicks death, and he pleaded not guilty. I'll
tell you I believe from watching the twenty twenty episode,
they there was a podcaster who did true crime and
(20:45):
she became very obsessed with this case with Regina, and
she went back and she dug through the case. She
did multiple episodes on it, and she was talking about
the case. Then she starts naming the longtime friend, Steve
Gates in her podcast, calling him out. So I believe
my takeaway.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Was that as an accomplished to all this, yes.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
That he was lying that he really knows what happened,
like he's the key to solving this case, and she's
doing this on a podcast and she's naming him, and
I think the pressure got to him because that was
really the catalysts as to why they now had sufficient
evidence to be able to indict Paul Hicks on murder surface.
(21:30):
So Steve Gates, Paul's longtime friend, was the centerpiece of
the state's case. He was testifying under a grant of immunity,
and Gates said that Regina did come to his house
to pick up Montana. So I think the catalyst was
his podcast calling him out. And I think maybe people
it had been many years were talking, you know, twenty
years later or whatever. So I think he had a
(21:51):
change of heart. He finally decides to come clean, so
he is the prosecution's key witness. He came forward and
said that he was there and he knows what happened
that night. Because remember, originally he was saying that Regina
never showed up at his house.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Oh yeah, that's right, right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Because he's the friend where Montana, the son and a
four year old son.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
No, it's not just he's staying at home and she's
not showing up like he was a part of it.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
He's saying, she did show up, and I know what happened.
So that's the evidence that they have now. So Steve
gates his new story. He now claims that he saw
Paul and Regina arguing outside her camaro, so he briefly
stepped inside to his garage. He said also that they
argued all the time, that the relationship was always volatile.
(22:34):
So he steps into the garage, then he returned. He
leaves the garage to find Regina crumpled up in the
front passenger seat.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
So he's saying he stepped away from the argument, and
then when he came back, she's now in the.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Passenger seat, right, And if you recall based upon the
medical examiner, she had three kind of like blunt force
trauma injuries on top of her head, but not enough
to kill her, but enough to capacitate. Yeah, Crystal Hicks.
Paul's sister testified against him in court that that evening
(23:07):
she saw muddy clothes in her bathtub after Regina's disappearance,
and a former girlfriend of Paul's testified about conversations in
which he discussed manipulating polygraph tests and a scheme to.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Play does everyone come up with this stuff now I know?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
And also that he had spoken about a scheme to
plant drugs and Regina's car in order to gain leverage
in their custody dispute. So the sister, yeah, you know.
The sister comes forward twenty years later and says, hey,
the night after Regina disappeared, I came home. She said
she came home from work early, so he wasn't expecting
her to come home at that time, and that the
(23:43):
bathroom bathtub was filled with muddy clothes and that he
was trying to clean up stuff. I mean, how suspicious
is that when they know that Regina disappeared and a Camaro.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And came home and I had muddy shoes or whatever
it was in a bathtub and a bathtub, what would
be your.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
First thought would be like, what the hell were you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah? Well, yeah, well do you see how angry Emily gets.
All you have to do is say what were you
doing today? Instead you act mad?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, if you if you had muddy boots and clothes,
why why do you have mighty clothes? Yes?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well no, normal spouses would say why do you have
mighty clothes? You say, what was it?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
What the hell are you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Exactly, Well, because you're not You're not a muddy guy.
I've been married to you for seventeen years and you've
never come home with mud on.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Right, It's not like I fish every weekend, so it's like,
oh he went fishing those there's gloshes. No, you would
be like, what.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Do you say galoshes?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Is that what they're called? Galoshes?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah? This is funny to hear you say goloshes.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Because I because I don't normally use it in my vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I've never heard you say galoshes before.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Have you ever heard me say fishing before?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Probably mighty boots in a bathtub. Yeah, So anyway, thanks
for make me lose my train of thought.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh, you're welcome, all right. So the defense is strategy.
What's the defense strategy to be. You've got Steve Gates.
First of all, again, let's just reiterate, there is no
DNA evidence. They still had the car in the exact
same condition as it was when they pulled it out
of that pond back in two thousand, because.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Do you know how long you're supposed to preserve the
evidence of a murder case? How long forever?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Right, So the car is still preserved, it's not it's
still as muddy as it was when it came out.
No DNAT, you know, but they found for this murder
trial against him, there's no DNA, no forensics, no hair, no.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
There's nothing. There's nothing linking him. So the only evidence
that they have against him in this trial is Steve
gatesimony testimony. That's evidence, it is.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
But what's the defense going to do. They're going to say,
why did he He lied in the beginning, so what
why would the jury believe him? Now? Right, that's the
that's the whole defense strategy. He's a known liar. He
lied before, he lied to prosecutors, he to the police,
he lied to everyone, why should we believe him now?
So the defense attacked the credibility of Steve Gates, who
(26:07):
had been granted immunity, raising obvious bias questions, right because
he's now granted immunity from having anything to do with this,
and pointed to the absence of forensic evidence. They also
floated the idea that someone else could have been responsible.
So that's the defense, right. They just want to plant
reasonable doubt in the jury's minds. They want to say,
(26:29):
why are you guys going to believe him? He lied
all the time? What makes you think that he's not
lying now? Also, they did not show Paul Gates testimony.
So in Ohio you can record trials and you can
publicly disseminate them. Okay, However, if you do not want,
if you testify and you do not want your image
(26:51):
out there, you can request that your image not be shown.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
So the default is it's public. It's public, but you
can make a request.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But you can make a request.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So who so who made the Requestates.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
The star witness who was testifying, now changing his story
and saying that he does know what happened. He requested
that his image and his testimony not be shown. So
they So in this episode of twenty twenty, they show
his sister testifying against him, they show an ex girlfriend
testifying against him, but you do not see Steve gates
testimony or his new image at all. I don't know.
(27:25):
He probably, I don't know. I think he wanted to
do the right thing, but he probably doesn't want to.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Maybe the reason why he lied from the beginning, he
just wants to stay out of it.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Probably. Okay, So Paul's trial lasted approximately two weeks and
then he was found guilty of murder and kidnapping. Okay, Okay,
this is.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Like twenty years later then, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
So January ninth of twenty twenty six, so this was
actually fairly recent. Paul Hicks was sentenced to twenty five
years to life in prison, which the way I understood
it and the way they explained it was he has
to spend a minimum of twenty five years in prison
before he's eligible for parole. Yeah, he will, no, but
he will be eligible for parole after twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I don't think this guy twenty five to life is
it means twenty well, it means twenty five years minimum
and up to life, right, but.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
At twenty five years he will then be without parole.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Is just what we think of as life.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I know, I guess I just wanted to clarify that
in twenty five years this man is eligible for parole,
which I don't think is enough time considering not only.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Do I already had twenty years out in the public
and he was free.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Right, But he's also also the killer. Right. But he's
also just even with the arson and the insurance fraud
and you know, trying to frame the ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, it's just killing his baby's mama and keeping that
child from having a mother. It's horrible. Would you ever
have thought you could go online and order a mask
to look like me?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
But he did, now I know, I know he did. Yeah,
I mean that guy is Did you see that video?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah? It shows that you want.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Does she look like a female, like her mannerisms and stuff?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It could be him?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
No, I know it's no, it's I mean this this
woman is shortened. Oh it's not him and kind of bigger. Yeah,
so it's not him. No, there's a man that's tall
and thin, and then there is a short Does it
look like her?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
The X the face mask?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Does it it's hard to tell because the security video
is black and white.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
So but is that enough to kind of think it
could be?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, I think yeah if. But it's also again you're
watching it, going, why does this woman have like all
her hair down and out and her face uncovered? I mean,
it's it's kind of ridiculous when you watch it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Isn't she has a necklace with her initials on it.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, I mean it's yeah exactly, it's it's kind of
ridiculous looking at it. But I mean you should watch
it just because.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's now I want a mask.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Now that you know that the woman's wearing a mask
to look like his ex girlfriend in order to frame her.
You watch it and you're like, this is these two
are It's just ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So yeah, I'd love to see like like the uh,
like the behind the scenes footage of them like prepping
for this crime, right, like yeah that looks good.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah yeah, put your hair forward so they can see it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Now, make which photos did they upload of her, you know,
to get the mask?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
And they show the photos, they show the order form.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Oh that's right because they have it. It's all digital,
because they said.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
The prosecutor said that in like all of his existence
of prosecuting, he never had someone fully comply with a
subpoena like that, because they subpoena the company.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And then probably have a whole department where they handle
subpoenas for all the homicide investigations.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So then he was like they the information he got
back from the subpoena, He's like, they got the order,
they got the photos, they got the everything.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Oh yeah, it's not their first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
No, he's just like, you know, I mean, can you imagine, though,
that's a win when you're a prosecutor and you're you're
prosecuting someone and you're trying to build a case against them,
and you send a subpoena, and you know, when you
send a subpoena.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Nine times out of test they.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Toss them out, they block them, they do everything, proact everything,
they don't reply, they do everything possible to not comply
with a subpoena. So the fact that this prosecutor sends
a subpoena and then he just gets back, you know,
the order, the photos that were used, Paul Hicks's you know,
email address or like whatever he used to order, and
(31:28):
the amount and probably his credit.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Card and also signed a form or agreed to some
terms that he wouldn't use it to commit crimes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Probably, So I mean that was that was pretty interesting anyway,
all right, So he sent us to twenty five years
to life. I guess we'll follow this case if we're
alive in twenty five years to see if he's pearoled.
So hopefully not. He someone like that deserves to spend
the rest of their life in prison, So that's my thought. Oh, also,
one last thought on this. They did they never showed
(31:58):
the sun Montana, who was four at the time but
now he's obviously an adult in his late twenties. It
did show a statement. He wrote a statement that they
read in court. He did not go to court. He
did not appear in the documentary or in this episode
of twenty twenty at all. And I don't know how
I felt about what he wrote. I did feel badly
(32:19):
for him, but he wrote something to the effect of, like,
you know, he'd lost his mom, but he also he
did not believe that his dad had anything to do
with it, and now he lost his father too, so
he has no parents, which is sad for him. But
I just felt like it was also sad that it
seemed like he wasn't fully grasping like his dad's involvement.
(32:40):
I don't think he was on board with believing that
and believing that.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I imagine it's different if you grow up and you
have parents and you're of an age where you maybe
have a good memory, like you're in your teens or something,
where you have a lot of experiences with your parents
and memories, and then you come to learn, maybe even
in real time, that you know one parent killed the other. Yeah,
But then when you know, at age four, he's gonna
(33:06):
have very little memories of his mother, just maybe some images,
right and in whatever he was told after he was
four about her. So then he grows up never really
knowing her, sadly, and then come to learn that like, oh,
this person that was never my wife my life, they
say my father killed and he's telling me, no, you're
just probably not as invested in it. I mean, you
(33:29):
could be, but it could be in a situation like
this where he's not emotionally investing in because it wasn't
in real time. It was a long time ago. He
never got to know his mother to be sad that
she's dead. Other than this the fact that he doesn't
have a mother, so that might have kind of set
him back a little bit not been so emotionally well
I acted.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I also wish in this.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Oh if that made sense, but a little but made
a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Okay. So this was called ABC's twenty twenty episode. It's
called The Secret in the Water. If you're interested in
watching it. Also, if you have any thoughts or information
or more information on this case, I love to hear it,
so make sure you dm me on Instagram. Also, please
be sure to follow legally Brunette. All of our episodes
go into the legally Brunette feeds, so if you're listening
(34:14):
to us on two t's that's great, but not every
episode goes in there, so make sure you follow us
on legally Brunette. Also, please be sure to tell your
friends and family to listen. And again, thank you so
much for your recommendations and for listening. We appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And then you're you always forget you got to tell people,
advise them. Oh, go ahead, divorce before.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Murder, death, divorce before death. That is our PSA until death,
do us part. I don't care what your religion is
or I don't care how bad you're gonna look, or
I don't care what your custody arrangement is.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Murder is always always bad.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That is the bad choice, all right, So make good
choices people.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, honesty is the best policy, right.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
So is not murder?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Okay, you have to stop talking. I can try to
end this episode. You just keep adding things at the end.
Thank you.
Hosts And Creators
Teddi Mellencamp
Tamra Judge
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