Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome back to Untold Stories Life with a severe autoimmune condition.
I'm Martine Hackett, and I'm really glad you're here. This season,
we've been exploring what it means to begin again, those
moments when life doesn't go as planned and you have
to find new ways forward. Today we meet Brit, whose
story is shaped by some of life's biggest milestones, like
(00:30):
becoming a parent, facing a chronic condition CIDP, and learning
to adapt to both simultaneously. Late in her pregnancy, Britt
experienced the sudden onset of unexplained symptoms that led to
months in the hospital and a long winding recovery. But
through it all, Britt continued to push forward, rebuilding her strength,
(00:51):
redefining motherhood, and showing us what it looks like to
adapt through the most challenging milestones. I'm excited for you
to meet her. Hi, Brit, it's great to see you.
Thank you so much for joining me here today. Thank
you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Let's
start with a snapshot of what your life looked like
before everything shifted. What were you focused on, both professionally
(01:15):
and personally.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, absolutely, there was a lot going on. I was
pregnant at the time, so preparing for a newborn. We
had just moved to a new town that we were
really excited about. I had just started a new job
about eight months previously, so tons of change on our end,
tons of growth, but like a very exciting time for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
You and your husband had planned to start a family.
As you mentioned, what did you initially imagine being a
new mother would be?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Like, Well, my son was originally do in December, so
of course you're imagining Christmas with a newborn, and how
exciting that's going to be. Like the photos under the tree,
I was just so excited. Dress like baby up, go
for walks, and my friends are coffee. I know it's
so much more than that, obviously, but also when you're
pregnant for the first time you don't really realize that either.
But yeah, very different than what I imagined, of course,
(02:04):
and you were in your final stretch of your pregnancy
around thirty five weeks. Yeah, when those first symptoms started.
Tell me what did you notice first and how were
you making sense of it. The first thing I noticed
was tangling in my hands and feet, and it was
my first pregnancy, so I kind of attuned that to
be like that was pretty normal, I thought, potentially, I
(02:24):
had thought my sister had said she's experienced the same thing.
I don't know if she actually had, but kind of
thought that was maybe par for the course. But then
a couple of days later I started getting excruciating back
pain that seemed weird, kind of stiff, struggling to move
a little bit. So that just didn't seem normal.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
And you probably thought it was related to the pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I did, and I was worried, of course, with the
baby and what that meant. I didn't even know anything
about CIDV at that point, so of course, yeah, I
definitely thought it was pregnancy related.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And when things started escalating, what was going through your mind?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Scary, terrified, actually worried for my baby, worried for myself,
just the fear of the unknown and like not knowing
what was going on. I think therapy helped a lot,
like working through those feelings.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
And fortunately your husband is a nurse and he thought
your symptoms might have been neurological. What kind of conversations
were you having about what was going on with him?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I was just really honest with him about everything that
I was feeling. I think this scary thing was too
because he's a nurse who was actually working nights, so
we were just texting back and forth. He was like,
you should really get into the hospital, bring you first
thing in the morning, or come tonight. Maybe don't drive,
get an uber or whatever. That looks like. He doesn't work,
you know with pregnantations often, but of course he knew
(03:39):
enough to know there was something wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Shortly after, Britt found herself in the hospital and what
should have been an exciting birth quickly became one of
the most terrifying experiences of her life. And yet through
it all, she was able to deliver a healthy baby boy, Ali.
But it was also the beginning of a much longer journey,
one that would change everything she knew. Were you in
(04:07):
the same hospital where he.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Works, No, the hospital and rehab that I was in
was three hours from where we lived. It's meant that
like Alie and my husband Gavin had to either stay
at air v's, stay with friends family. Definitely, it almost
made it harder because, like, you're concerned about him, but
he's not in the same room with you, because you're
in a hospital room and he's at some airbnv in town.
(04:28):
So lots of moving parts and a very different experience.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Those transitions kept coming, being treated hours away from home,
separated from her husband and newborn, and relying on the
generosity of friends and family. But through each of these challenges,
Bridge shows us what resilience looks like in the face
of life's biggest uncertainties. How did your husband support you
(04:56):
through these unsure times? Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I start. They came in at ten in the morning.
I always remember Gav swinging Ali in his little car
seat showing up and that just made my day every
single day. And then they'd stay till like five or
six o'clock. So I'm sure it was tough for Gav
to have to do that every single day, but it
meant the world to me because I got to see Ali.
He lay on me, napped together. It was really special.
(05:21):
Of course, being a nurse, he supported not only myself
but my family through those tough conversations with doctors when
we got down to that kind of thing, and he
was the person that I spoke to most about things
when I could, so he was not only being an
emotional support, but kind of navigating the hospital system as
well for us. Wow, that's amazing. Your husband sounds like
a very special person. He's pretty great.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And yeah, you were initially diagnosed with GBS. What were
the doctors telling you about what to expect and how
were you feeling in your body and your mind at
that point?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
It was a tough time. This was my first major
health scare of any sort, and you know, they assumed
that i'd walk out of that hospital, and I didn't.
I actually couldn't even rollover. I couldn't even impress the
call bell when I was leaving. I was still that week.
So it was so hard emotionally to get emg scans
and things like that and just see either no improvement
or tiny, tiny little bit of provement. So I was
(06:12):
just very scared. I couldn't walk again, I'd never be
able to carry my son, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, and at what point were you told that what
you actually had was CIDP.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I originally went into the hospital in November twenty twenty two,
and I left April twenty twenty three, and then August
twenty twenty three, I was diagnosed with CIDF.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
It's worth noting that while there's no typical experience for CIDP,
BRIT's story, including the months of hospitalization that led to
her diagnosis, maybe more uncommon than others. So what was
your awareness of CIDP at that time?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I didn't know anything about it. I think the first
thing I googled, to be honest, was can you die
from CIDP? Because I knew it was chronic and lifelong,
and I didn't know exactly what that meant. So I
was scared and then of course reassured by minurologists luckily
that things will be okay, but they would look different.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
And Britt, how did that updated diagnosis sort of shift
the story for you? Especially when your son Ali was
a newborn and with such a long road ahead, it
was really tough.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I was trying to also hold things in the
lens of okay, well, I can be okay with this.
I just need to have the right mindset. I need
to do the right things and work through it. But
it was still a tough diagnosis to know that it's
not like, Okay, you know, I'm going to get better,
It's something that I might need treatment for for the
rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
With her CIDP diagnosis, Britt began charting a new course
forward as you'll hear, brit began learning how to carry
hope and uncertainty at the same time. It's hard enough
obviously becoming a new parent, but you were also learning
how to navigate new treatments and a completely different path
(07:57):
than what you had expected. What helped you ad in
those early weeks and months.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
We have the best support system, and we're so grateful
for that. I think learning more about it was helpful.
I started getting treatment, and then I was starting to
seek and improvements, and so that not only helped my
mental health, that helped me, like you know, functionally do things,
and so that would be of course happier at the
end of the day and feel like I was getting
better to some extent. So I was just trying to
(08:22):
keep things in perspective and take things day by day.
But it was of course super challenging.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
It sounds like you're dealing on one hand with your
own very significant diagnosis and your treatments, and then here's
your son who is only going through these these stages
one time, right, and so it seems you were able
to figure out a way to focus on those most
important things.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
You have to to survive something like that. I'm quite
a positive person, so it's like, Okay, let's celebrate this
when or else you just live in despair.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, and so tell me more about this mindset. As
you made progress in your treatment, I think it's completely
changed to who I am today. Of course, I'm not
always going to feel strong, but I have to see
things in a lens where like it's going to get better.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I have to do my physio. I have to think
of things this way or I'm just gonna not progress
and I'm not going to get better. And I was
like an athlete growing up, so I love a challenge.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
And so you talked a little bit before about your
support system. How much of a role did they play
when you adjusted to this new reality?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
My poor mother. Honestly, I can't imagine getting through the
day without them. My mom was there and my dad
like almost daily. I mean I was on a feeding
tube for a while, but when I could eat like
a snack that I loved, or like just her presence,
or like watching a show together or a movie with
my sister, and like just things like that, friends visiting,
I mean, it really lifted your spirits and it was
so important. And it wasn't only when I was in
(09:48):
the hospital. When I left, I had such challenging times
because I need to stare. I looked in my home,
I couldn't I couldn't do things that I could do before.
But people come visit and it just made you feel
that sense of normalcy and community again, just like having
them a Can.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You talk about what were some of the first milestones,
big or small, that helped you feel like you're actually
making progress.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
The biggest milestone was the day that I could stand.
That was huge. That was like August twenty twenty three,
because that to me was like, Okay, now you're on
the path to walking right and then taking steps eventually
a month later, that was huge. I would lift like
two pound weights and then when I could get to
the fives and like, that was huge for me to
be able to like have those milestones that I was
(10:30):
working towards too. And I said the biggest milestone was standing,
but it really was lifting Allie, And that was a
year and a half later, and that's where everything that
I'd worked towards had come to fruition and I finally
had that moment.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, because it sounds like, you know, oh, I just
stood and you're kind of like skipping past all the
things that you had to do to get there.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You're right, like there was there were so many little
things every single day, every hour, hours of physio intense physio,
the leg presses even before that, like just being able
to move my toes, like things like that that were
so big. I think you just think about those major
moments when you look back on things, but it really
was just serieses of little small moments that kind of
(11:08):
came into like that one moment of standing or walking
or all those things.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, or lifting a two pound weight and then being
able to lift your sun.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, like that was getting fast. That two pound weight
took months, and like when I finally could do that,
I thought I would be stuck there forever. And then
one day I could do like four pounds three pounds,
and it was so exciting.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, how did your mindset shift over time from at
first wanting to get back to normal eventually creating a
new version of normal altogether?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I think it was a natural progression. It's not something
I thought about. I think it just happened because I
had such a big challenge in front of me, and
I think anyone that goes through a challenge like that
you're going to be a changed person, but then adding
motherhood on top of that is to the biggest changes
I think anyone could ever go through. So I like
where I am. I like who I am. Of course
I'll always be evolving and changing getting better, but I
(12:00):
think I'm a better version of the person I was before.
For sure.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
What were the moments that felt like breakthroughs for you,
even if they might not have looked like that on
the outside.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
In terms of emotional and physical breakthroughs, I would say
they actually kind of go hand in hand because you know,
oftentimes I would have I'd be down on myself, and
then I would do something that was maybe quite small,
like like I said, wiggling my toes or or rolling
over or being able to sit up, all of those things,
and it just gives you, like this sense of confidence,
like Okay, things are getting better. The support team, though,
(12:32):
like from doctors and conversations with them, that also brought
me a lot of comfort in knowing that, like, okay,
these things do take tig ners only heal at a
certain taste every single day. And so it was just
that change of perspective of patients because I was not
a patient person before this, and I've had to become
so patient, annoyingly so, but you have to because they
(12:54):
keep telling you it's going to happen if you do this,
this and this, and then of course it eventually started
to and that was helpful emotionally and then of course
physically that that was a big addition as well.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So really it was being kinder to yourself and just
giving yourself that patience and that grace to say, I'm
just gonna trust what they're telling me, and it might
not happen on my timetable, but sure enough it did.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Absolutely no one I know has gone through this, and
so you can cry, you can be happy, you can
celebrate these things, and it's all tough. But yeah, it
was uh yeah, that was helpful.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
And this sounds incredible, but you and your son learned
how to walk together. Can you tell me about that moment?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I vat Alie for the record, But it was a
tight race. It was kind of one of those conversations
we had since the beginning when I was slowing down
in my recovery. It was like who was going to
walk first? And it wasn't like a joke, right, I
think it was kind of just a reality. And yeah,
I think I started walking just a few months before
he did, which is pretty wild. We had a lot
(13:54):
of furs together, like rolling over all of those things,
So you gotta kind of laugh because it is so
that you would never expect. But yeah, it's a pretty
interesting part of the story. We were kind of like
getting to those milestones together.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Britt and Ali grew side by side. While these everyday
baby milestones were proof that both of them were moving forward,
Britt still had a lot of adjusting to do as
her reality continued to evolve. And what did you learn
about your own needs during this time physically, emotionally, and
even in terms of advocacy as you navigated treatment and recovery.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, advocacy is such a big one that, of course
I didn't know anything about before my diagnosis, as I'm
sure most people don't. I'm a fugal pleaser, so I
am not a huge advocate for myself, but I've become one.
I think that navigating the system and those neurology appointments,
you wait months for them and then they usually only
(14:57):
have ten to fifteen minutes with you, and so it's
not there fall, it's a healthcare system, everyone's rush, et cetera.
But if you have questions, you have concerns, Like I've
learned that I have to write things down and go
through the list. I haven't always been good at it,
but I've definitely been taking it quite seriously over at
least the past year and knowing that, like it's something
that I need to do at every appointment.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
It sounds like you realize as somebody who's usually like, sure,
whatever you want, Oh, it's okay, right, that that just
wasn't serving you.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
No, it's not. When I first st I knew neurologist,
I had so many questions about what this diagnosis would mean,
how we even came to a diagnosis like that, are
we sure? What does treatment look like? And I could
get the sense that she was here to talk about it,
but it's like, let's be quick, and that just wasn't
an option for me because this was a new diagnosis
(15:44):
that I needed answers for. So she was great. We
had a really good conversation, and she called me a
couple of days later and we talked more about it.
But that was the way the tables turned with this diagnosis.
I really need to understand what's happening, what treatment looks like,
what this prognosis looks like, and if she has an
of all the answers, who do I talk to? I
think like your time is valuable and people just assume
(16:05):
that maybe you're all good until you ask, they don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
We'll be back with more untold stories after a quick break.
As a global immunology company committed to improving the lives
of people suffering from severe autoimmune conditions, our Genics is
dedicated to shining a light on resources that support the
CIDP or chronic inflammatory demilinating polynorerropathy community. Shining through CIDP
(16:34):
is a website that aims to help those living with
CIDP and their caregivers by providing reliable information, helpful tips,
and relatable stories of both trial and triumph. Featuring people
with CIDP like you. Shining through CIDP features real stories,
tips on emotional self care, and new ideas to help
navigate the CIDP journey. For more information, visit Shining through
(16:58):
CIDP Dot and now back to untold Stories. So, after
months in the hospital, finally coming home must have been
such a significant milestone, but of course it must have
(17:21):
also have brought up its own challenges. What was that
transition like for you.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I was so excited to leave the hospital, as I
think anyone would be. Not that I didn't love the
nurses and things, but of course you don't want to
live in a hospital. I've got a family at home,
and so I was so excited to leave. My parents
were all there, we celebrated Allie's there, of course, but
then everyone left and I was like, Okay, the virality
is very different than when I left this house. It
(17:47):
was actually probably more difficult than most of the other transitions,
if not the most difficult, because I thought that I
would feel like myself and go back to my life
to some extent, and it just was completely different. We
had to a stare I left in our house. I
needed to rely on my husband for absolutely everything. I
had to house someone come in and shower me, all
of those things, get me dressed. And that's a really
(18:09):
tough experience when you're in your thirties. I'm sure it
is at any age, but nothing that I expected. You
also don't have the support of the hospital and the staff,
and you know, you can't rig a call bell for
like water or whatever you need. You know, you have
to rely on other people, and it was so difficult.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah. I mean, like you said, like when you left
that house, you were healthy and pregnant and ready to
start this next phase of your life, and then when
you come back, it really is just a very different
What was it like being able to suddenly co parent
full time with your husband after months of only being
able to see Ali at small intervals.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Ough, the best thing in the world, of course was
co parenting when I left the hospital, but to the
extent that that I wanted to be, that was a
whole other world. That was the most exciting happy When
I could look after Ali on my own, it was
good Friday twenty four, which is crazy, it was not
even a year and a half ago. That was amazing, Like,
(19:05):
I felt so independent. That was such a game changer.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah, to finally be living the vision of yourself as
a mom that you had before. Yes, yes, it was huge.
But how did you show up for yourself during recovery mentally,
physically and emotionally.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I just had to forgive myself for being upset or
being angry because or just embrace those feelings because you
need to all emotions are valid, the happy ones and
the sad ones, and it's not always gonna be sunshine
and roses, especially when you're going through something like that,
taking it day by day, trying not to get too
overwhelmed with the future and work. Yeah, and then of
(19:42):
course like taking care of myself, working out, going to physio,
seeing my psychotherapist, just showing up for myself and like
not canceling those appointments and attending things and putting the
work in.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
And you just mentioned before you were you've been open
about going to therapy and connecting with others online who
have lived through similar experiences. What kind of healing has
come from sharing your story.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
It's so therapeutic sharing my story and then also listening
because you don't hear of this very often, it's very rare.
And then you know, I've connected with men and women,
but I've connected with a lot of moms, and so
just knowing that you're not alone, probably connected with like
thirty women you know have gone through like a similar thing,
which is also wild all around the world.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
So sure is.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, it is, and they're often in their thirties or
late twenties, and it's been really helpful. For me to
connect with people in that way, even just like yeah,
like if they say, you know what it's like to parent,
you know, having this fatigue and getting through the day
and maybe not feeling you're showing out the way that
you want to show up every single day, and you know,
having someone that's gone through it to speak to about
it other than like your partner, your friends who like
(20:49):
are amazing, but they don't necessarily understand her or you're
you don't feel like you're always you know, burning them
with that information. So it's been great listening to everything
that others are going through.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
You Also, during this time, you moved, adding yet another transition,
So what was that experience like.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
We moved back to my hometown though, so that was
a little less daunting than moving to a new city.
We were lucky to find a house close to my parents.
One of my best friends is just down the street
with her two little girls, and you know family and
friends aren't far so I think it actually was the
right move for us. And I also don't think you
realize the support that you need until you have a baby,
(21:25):
you know, having childcare down the street, sick days like
needing that support, not having to take time off work.
So it's turned out to the best mood for us.
It wasn't what we thought we would do three years ago,
but I'm grateful we're here. Honestly, it's been really great
to be back home.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
You've been just so positive, you know, during this change.
How were you able to do that?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Like I said, I think just the way that I
hope sometimes. But I think one it's the way that
I cope, and it's the way that I get through things,
and it's the way that I can keep my mind
clear and just focus on the task at hand. Of like, Okay,
I need to reach this step to go back to work,
or I need to reach this stuff to get back
with my son. And there's always like good and bad
(22:05):
in every situation I think, Like moving back home, of course,
you would think, Okay, we lived, we moved to this
beautiful town for these reasons, but there's so much here,
Like now we're closer to friends that are having babies,
growing up, all of those things. My son has his
grandparents down the street. You know, Like I'm lucky to
work remote. I don't have to worry about like a
job when I moved, so that would be very difficult,
you know, to do. But I'm lucky in that sense.
(22:26):
For me, it's a way the way I need to
be and just the way that I think I just
naturally am disposed this way. But it's helped.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, and it sounds like too that looking back now
that this is, you know, sort of a new beginning
that came out of this experience, something that might not
have happened if life hadn't taken this turn.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, I think we'd still be there, which would be okay,
but we wouldn't we be missing out on a lot.
I think that we didn't realize we would want to
have after having a baby. So yeah, I'm grateful to
be here for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And you mentioned about work and working in sale, and
you recently returned to work after being out for two years.
What was that first day?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Like? Luckily I worked remote, like I said, so I
didn't have to like go into an office. I think
I would have been so nervous because it's like high performance,
of course, high stress, all the things I loved in
my old life before I got sick, And it was
kind of the sense of like, am I going to
love that today? Am I going to be able to
do it today. I was lucky enough to do a
gradual return to work plan, which i'd recommend for anyone
(23:26):
that in my shoes if you can do it. It
made it so that, like I wasn't full time for
the first couple of months, I wasn't full time till January,
and then I just had a ton of support through
my team. I had a new boss who I met,
so that was daunting, but she's amazing and they're very
gracious with appointments. So before you do something new or again,
it's always feels daunting and nervous. And I was stressed
(23:48):
and I'm sure I cried a couple of days and
things like that, but then you get into a routine,
you get back to it, and then you're like, oh, right, okay,
I can do this. And it was a slow, gradual thing,
like I said, So, I'm very very happy to be
back financially and for just my mental capacity and state
and getting back to what I used to do before
and feeling like myself. There's obviously been hard moments, but
(24:10):
it's gone very well overall.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That's such a big thing, I think just for any
parent going back to work after having a baby. So
speaking about how did you adapt to working and parenting.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
It's challenging. I think any working parent, no matter if
you have a diagnosis or not, I find it challenging. Luckily,
like I said, we move back here, we have our
family support, Their amazing daycare was closed last week, and
it's like, what would we do if we weren't here?
You know? So, but it's still hard. But like I said,
I'm lucky to work remotely, although I have a lot
of meetings and all of those things, but I have
(24:43):
a bit of flexibility, so I just take it day
by day. We have support, and if I have to
not work that day, I just can't. Like it's just
the reality. But it's a tough season for young parents.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I think in general, it absolutely is so britt What
do you wish someone had told you right after your
diagnosis that would have.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Relief that everything was going to be okay?
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, what would you recommend to someone newly diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Reach out to people, Talk to people, talk to your doctors,
ask questions, advocate for yourself. It's okay to be scared,
it's okay to feel alone. But there are people out there,
there's a foundation, a lot of resources, and I think
it's just staying focused on the mission. There's a certain
percentage of the time that you're not going to want
to do your physio, You're not going to want to
do these things. But if you can just try to
(25:30):
see the big picture and the end goal, it's so helpful.
Whatever your goals are, I write them down. I did
that a lot. I journaled a lot. I thought that
was really helpful and that you know that helped me
along the way for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Thank you so much for your time today, but really
thank you so much for your vulnerability and your strength
that came across so much in our conversation today. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Thank you, Artine, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I'm so grateful to brit for sharing her story with
such honesty and for showing us that adapting through milestones
isn't about going back to normal. It's about finding new
ways to move forward when life shifts. So, whether you're
living with cidp MG another rare condition, supporting someone who is,
(26:23):
or just here to listen and learn, I hope Britt's
story leaves you feeling more grounded, more hopeful, and a
little less alone. If you know someone else who may
enjoy the show, share it with them, and please subscribe
for more episodes of Untold Stories. Until next time, Take care.
(26:43):
Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition is produced
by Ruby's Studio from iHeartMedia in partnership with Argenix and
hosted by me Martine Hackett. Our executive producer is Yvonne Shehan.
Our producer is Leah Sutherland. This episode was written and
produced by Diana Davis. Production for this season is by
Tom Sullivan and Paul Vittelins of Audiography