August 7, 2026 • 43 mins
Trinidad James & Young Fyre of BESS DRSSD On Why You Should “Keep It In Your Pants”
Trinidad James Reflects On His Career Blowing Up Before He Was Ready
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up his way for the angela yea, and I
have two special guests here with me today, but I
might unless you introduce yourselves, because I don't know what
we're going by today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
What's going on the world.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am best, I'm dressed, and we are best dressed.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
I know that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
But also Grammy Award winning all that. Also entrepreneurs also
best dressed.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Period whatever since the beginning.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
And I guess we could say actors.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Too, all that, yes, all the things, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Multi hyphen it's in other words, how you today? Okay,
how are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Incredible? And gifts too that.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
What I love is that you also stole a book.
We don't mind when people steal books.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh yeah, oh.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
Yeah, but I told you, I told you, I told
you I got my.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Dad's sacks strong all doubts. She knows, you know that's
your suirt.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Okay, cool, you know, make sure now we traded gifts.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Instill this book no more, okay, because we actually get
a lot of books up here.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
I like to read and I also use audible all
the time.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
But I also think it's great, like if we have
an extra, we like to keep it here because what
a nice gift to give somebody a book nowadays.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Especially if they actually read it.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yeah, what's the last book you've read?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I think Malcolm Gladwell.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
All right, that's a classic one. Yeah, what about your best?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
You know?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
The last one that I read that I really hit
me was The Mountains You, which is a crazy, like
digging into yourself type of book. I don't know if
you've ever heard of it.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
No, I haven't, but now I'm going to look at it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Honestly, he's the real book.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
God, if you're ready to really like tear yourself apart
and reput it together, that book is beautiful.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
The Mountain Is You. That could also go really well
with this song too Much, Come on, get up.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yet, it up Up?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I gotta say you're from You're from Iowa, which is
so interesting. I know one other person from Iowa personally,
my friends Ina.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
She's a writer.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
She literally over the weekend just went to her high
school reunion.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And she went there because she said she had a
lot of trauma from back then being like the only
black kids.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oh yeah in her class, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And so she went to kind of try to like
address that and heal it.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I would love to hear what your experience was like
in Ioa.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, you know, honestly, I think that my experience in
Iowa prepped me for the real world. You know, the
world is run by people that are in Iowa. So
if you can handle growing up there, then you can
handle pretty much anything. So you know, you have to
kind of learn how to navigate as a black man
in a lot of different spaces, and it really prepared
me very so I actually am grateful in this my
(02:47):
adult age. I'm grateful. When I was going up, it
was like, oh my God, get me out of here.
But but you know, as I've gotten older, I got
appreciation for how I grew up there. And there's a
certain type of respect that they have in the Midwest too,
just for one another that really appreciate.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
About Iowa and Trinidad. James, You've been everywhere. I mean,
you grew up.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
You were born in Trinidad, correct, which is that's the
name Trinidad, James. And they're doing the Caribbean Music Awards
in Trinidad.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Finally, and the place where they're doing is really amazing too.
Like anybody that's never been to Trinidad, it feels like
our version of in Australia where they have the Symphony,
we have a building is so beautiful and that's what
they're doing the Caribbean Awards that this year for the
first time in Trinidad. So Marchelle and like everybody, I
(03:33):
think they're really going to put on a really great show.
This building is beautiful.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Were you planning to go?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, you know, I'm gonna go to this.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
This is this building is so amazing, Like people really
like the show is gonna be a great show.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It always is. The one that I went to, the
one in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
But the one in Brooklyn, I want to say because
I'm from Brooklyn, so it's so easy for me. Yeah,
and I want to say it's one of the most fun,
entertaining shows just because the music they're dancing, the vibes.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
It is like.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
When it comes to like a fun awards show, that's it.
Because normally they could be a little stush, but this.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Is not man man.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So now that word always gives me in real life.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
If anybody doesn't know what slush means, means bougie and Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, min slush woman, everything.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Don't be stush.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
But no, definitely plan to go to the awards.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
I think that I love going to the first of
something or having the first or something like even like
when buying a shoe, or if like a black designer
makes something like their first thing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
How about not have everything. I don't want everything that
virtual made, but the first, like the first thing to
me always a whole a little way.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Do you sell things ever?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Okay, but not as not as much as maybe I
should because I have that hoarding spirit.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
To me too, because I always feel like when I'm
buying something, I justify it about like, well, this is
valuable and it's gonna be But then I don't sell it.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
So what was the point of me?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Well, my I guess my not even rebuttal but to
my piggyback with that, how I kind of my excuse.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Basically, I'm not hurting like I'm selling my stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Because hoarding is also not good. You know, it's like
sometimes bad hoarding. Okay, what's the difference.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
I think bad hoarding is where it's like you have
the like the same color, like the same Rick Owen
shirt or whatever, and it's like you only defining it
about this the ninety three, this ninety five, this the
two thousand and two it's like, bro, sell a couple
of those you only like you know, it's not like
it's honestly, everybody has an excuse that they can make
(05:39):
because they're like, hey, in ninety three, a fifth like this,
and the ninety five.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
You've done this.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
That's why I boil it down to like basic.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
No matter how fly you are, you still boil down
to your every day is a certain palate.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
And so to me, the elevation of your fashions should get.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
To a place where it's like, bro, let me get
some more money so I could buy things that match
where my palette has grown to compared to holding on
the things that you won't even wear no more. Yeah,
and you don't even and you're not a good reseller. Yeah,
so you know what I'm saying. So it's like if
you get that, when I get the opportunity to sell things,
which is very rare, like somebody like saying like, oh bro,
you got this still or whatever, then I take advantage in,
(06:19):
but I don't go chasing it.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
You'll be good to have a store online.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think, oh, that'd be crazy.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Because then you don't know what's.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Authentic, because that's another thing to want to make sure
something's real when you're But I also like the idea
of clearing out space sometimes and saying, you know what,
I just get a.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
New place and don't bring new stuff.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Well, you know, I put it in storage, and like
I bring like the things that I That's what I
realized because I've moved a lot to a certain extent
over the last set of years, and from house to house.
It's like, I realize that I'm only taking a certain
amount because I know I'm going to buy more stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
That's just what we do. We buy things.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
And so it's like if you don't want your house
to become clothes like water, clothes and shoes and the
sessions they're like water, so they can start filling up
everywhere and they can fit in everywhere. So you have
closed in this closse, this person's room on the bed.
It's like, hey, what are we doing? So I like
to start with a clean house, small, yeah stuff, and.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Then build from there.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And then you and I spending all this money on
the storage that you don't never go get stuff out of.
I had to just guddle out my storage and be like,
let me just get rid of all this stuff and
You're like, why did I pay all this money? I
could have bought all this stuff again right instead of
putting it in storage?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Now, how did y'all link up?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Ooh?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So we met actually in a session in between management.
We met by a guy named Danny shout out my
dog yeah, And I remember them having a meeting with me.
They're like, yo, you wouldn't have want to happened to
have a session with Trinidad James, thinking like, I don't know.
They didn't know if I would like that or not.
I was like, hell yeah, because I was already up
(07:53):
on Trenning, I had my homework. I loved his interviews,
Like I liked the music, but I loved his interviews.
To me, that was what was appealing. You know, mind you,
I came in the game super early with like Tea Paints.
I came in already signed as a producer to Tea
Pain and so I didn't really care about fame person.
I really cared about the person because I also know
(08:14):
when you when you listen, you gotta work with him.
Like it was like the talent is everybody got talent,
but you gotta work with him. So I want to
like the person. So when they brought him up, I
was like, oh, yeah, for sure, and our first session
was amazing. He pulled up and asked me something nobody
ever asked me, which is like, what's the craziest beats
that you got that nobody ever writes to? And I
was like yeah. I pulled him up and then he
(08:35):
wrote some crazy like just like what is this? His
brain works different? And then I was like, it's kind
of like a step brother's moment. You look at each
other like, bro, yep, did we just become friends right now?
I think it might be my bro, you know. And
then we did the hell the Hollywood thing for a
couple of weeks because we're both very busy and you know,
(08:56):
we didn't really talk. And then after a minute, I
remember being intentional like, yo, I'm gonna hit him beause
I don't really hit people. I'm very bad at that,
but I'm gonna hit him because I actually we had
a great session and I want to keep working. And
we did, and then when we got back to second time,
that was when it was it was like, okay, yeah,
we actually actual rock with you know, we kind of
we started out with this like we both played basketball too,
(09:16):
so It's like we had this like game win streak.
So every session if we if we made a joint,
it was like, oh, we keep going, we have I
think we did, like before we stopped counting like twenty joints.
That was just like, oh, like every time, take.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
It because it's the personal experience. Like at the end
of the day, how do you want the consumer? Obviously
the love your door, your music per se, but more
importantly it starts with how do the producer and the
artists and the people making the product, how do you
feel about your product?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
First?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Like are you making something that you're intentional about? Are
you making something that you love? Is it based off
of good conversation?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
First?
Speaker 5 (09:51):
Being the construct or the formula or the foundation of
the product. No matter what it sounds like, it doesn't
matter if it's a trap record, R and B record,
pop record, blues record.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Soca, how do you know? It's like what where is
it basing from?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
And like you said, you know, going that twenty for
twenty streak that we want that we went on. For me,
it was so important because I wasn't being pushed by nobody.
Everybody's very intimidated by me because I have myself together
as a man first, and then the way that I
dress and present myself is just the thing about it
(10:27):
is like a star is already born.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
You got to figure out how to shine. That's how
life is.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
And so when you walking in your light, you got
people that are dim going through things, feeling the type
of way towards you, and you're not trying to do
anything with them, blind them, dim them, or anything. I
went through a personal experience that you had nothing to
do with. And so when I met my point of
saying that is when I got to bro in the
midst of these twenty sessions to get these twenty songs
(10:52):
or whatever, my light didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Affect his light.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
His light stayed bright, and that allowed me to know that, oh,
I could keep working with this person.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Right because in our business, as you know that you can.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Talk to everybody because it's a job, but you're only
going to connect with certain type of people that aligned
with your life. And that's why we you know, ten
eleven years later, we you know, best dress? What's the
dress code? Too much in our pants?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yaha?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Hello listen and what a fun song that is. Now,
when you think about making music and when you think
about this album?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
What's the dress code? Were you?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Because it feels like y'all did this because you love
it and it's fun and it's musical. Did you think
about how like, because a lot of times we have
to think about like how are people going to perceive it?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Do sales matter? What genre is it?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
What was the thought process behind what you wanted this
to do and what it represented?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
To be honest, this is probably the most honest music
available because it's made from two guys that don't have
to do it, but are doing it, you.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So we literally just did what we came to us
instead of trying to chase that we both work, you know,
with all these artists. That was like the premise of
our original relationship was working for other artists. You know,
we work with Flow, Melely and and and all the women.
We did like a very sex all the we work
all the all the women. That was really a part
(12:15):
of our journey was like we realized working when men
was it was a difficult thing because of the ego,
even though we didn't have no ego. You get us together,
Oh my god, some guys are like, oh my god,
they're just thinking that the craziest things. But with women,
they look at us like father figures. So it worked
really great because I'm also a dad, so you know,
like I'm very comforting. I understand. I'm not going to
(12:36):
be I'm not in no woman's business or messy, you
know what I mean. So we work really well with women.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I like that because I've heard so many people say
how hard it is to work with women artists. That's
always been like the music business kind of chatter when
it comes to executives, like women are more difficult, they
cost more money, they have to get here, makeup, they
got to look right, they got to do this, they
gotta do that. But for you guys, that was more
of the we this they're more receptive.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, just you know, it worked out that way for us.
I would say that I'm sure people have that experience
for sure. I would never validate that for other people.
But for us, because of our personalities and what we
wanted out of the game, it was perfect. You know,
It's a perfect fit. Like we look to pour into people.
That's what we would love to do well.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
It also feels like you understand also like image and
looking right and how important that is because I think
a lot of times I could just throw on some
sweats and be ready to go. And you understand that
seeing that best dress is important for you know the
image of I.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Mean Angela, his name took four hours to do.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I can't even compete right now, and what I wanted
to I love what you you pretty much said it.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
But it's like when you can understand a woman's maintenance,
then you can understand, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
How to work with a woman because you can monetize
that even more than anything that was saying, like.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
When we're we're making we don't tell people.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
I say this all the time. We already said a
million times now like I'm not here. We're not here
to tell you what to do. Who are here to
show you who you are and mind you who you
can be. You are already it, It is already written
the words, the moment, the fact that you're even talking
to me, I'm standing out the way. I'm not chasing nobody.
So when you aligned or you come into my ecosystem
(14:24):
is because your universe is working well, your life is
doing well. Your life wants to put you with somebody
who can bring value to you. But sometimes somebody just
put you there, you have to be ready to understand
your discernment of like, oh, these people are valuable. And
so what we realize based on what he was saying
is that women could see because of the attention that
(14:47):
we pay that like, oh, it's worth not giving them
the headache that they will give to the dude who
maybe potentially trying to do something with them, or you
know what I'm saying, you got too much in his
pains triple on Tiendra.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And that's why, like when it comes to this project,
it's like I'm going to free myself of all of
it and do what we really really just want to
do and we think is actually missing, you know. And
for us it's about fun, you know, like having a
good time the original reason you know what I'm saying,
to create entertained.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Who's having all the fun right now? The girl?
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah, like listen, it's a time right now, enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I love it as a woman. How do you feel
right now?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
First of all, I think it's been and I think
for the past few years it's been the women like
we have so much to listen to, to choose from whatever
type of mood.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
And I also love that the men get mad at
some of the songs too.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I enjoy that because we used to have to deal
with a lot when it comes to male songs.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And how do you feel about like the NDI Iran
like Kreshia moment, that music moment with them, how do
you feel because you have a good perspective to give
them that.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Yeah, I mean, first of all, they'll tell you right here.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I love that Young Miami song. When I was just
in Saint Thomas for Carnival.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
That was.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
No, I was not, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I know you was with Swaggy recently, she was
with us and we were having a great time, not
being stish it off forget in some moments.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
But Verse Simmons was there, you know, and Sweeter.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
They were all out there, and so that song was
really like bubbling when we got there, and so that
was our soundtrack. Like that song is always gonna remind
me of that trip. And so for me, I look
at like India Irie and you know her point of view.
She's she's got a different stance, and I think that's
always gonna happen. Like certain music is going to be
polarizing for people they're not and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
You can it's art.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So some people would be like, I don't like this,
it's not my vibe, and they have every right to
say that and express that, And then some people are
going to be like, I'm just having a good time.
It's like Sexy Red. You know, I have a good
time listening to Sexy Red music. Now, I don't think
that like me and her do the same, you know
what she's talking about. I'm not, but it's just music.
Like it's kind of like having an alter ego moment
(16:59):
where you can just have fun.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It's like people all the people love n w A
and like gangster.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Yeah I'm not. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
You know, I don't be out there doing shooting, no
police or nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
But you know that's really real because we was never
doing any of the things Wayne and any of them
guys talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, So I think you just it's always like this
battle right now over lyrics being used in court and
stuff like that. But a lot of times that is
just not necessarily people's reality, or it maybe things from
like the past or a story somebody else told them
that they're expressing. But music is not supposed to be
necessarily real life. Sometimes it is you know, Molly and
(17:42):
was sweating for real?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Happened to happen.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
But you know, the beautiful thing about it is like
basically what you just said, the last thing you said.
How That's why we did What's the dress Code album?
Because it is a.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Lifestyle expression of how we are really living life.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Because that's all I kind of really know. And just
since the first time you ever met me, all I
knew was to be real with y'all. I don't know
how to be that fake Hollico stuff. I've learned it now,
but I still don't even like doing it. I only
feel good in LA Like it don't feel good. It
genuinely do not feel good being fake in New York.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Tell me what it's like being fake, Like, what do
you have to do?
Speaker 5 (18:24):
You gotta have your eye your eye game got to
be right. So it's like, you know, not care, or
you got the serious scam. So you got the serious scam.
Like damn, I'm not saying much. I'm not talking something
for bringing you into the scam. O that, or I
could love bomb you and then you know what I'm saying, Oh,
I'm giving you gifts, I'm bothering you up.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Yeah, right, you know what I'm saying, Like in different ways.
You know what I'm saying, you don't know because the
same emotion, and I handed to you genuinely because the
same emotion the same It's like you got to tell
the truth and then you.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Know what's so crazy? They actually brought up a real
point that I always say this to people. A good
person looks exactly like a bad person to somebody that's
like traumatized. It's the same behavior. It's the same behavior
because of bad Yeah, Like a bad person will take
care of you in a way that like you look
at him like are you really here for me or not?
(19:24):
You know, and a good person is just doing what
they normally do. So it's it's for you to decipher,
and you don't always know because you have great actors,
you know what I mean, Like the Yeah, there's so
many good actors. And I've realized I've realized that because
I fallen victim to it a lot. Like sometimes my
genuineness it comes off like I'm brough from Iowa, bro,
Like I don't even be thinking, I'm just completely genuine,
(19:46):
Like that's all I do, Like I don't even.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So then when people look at you weird, it's like, bro,
I'm just nice, you know what I mean, Like I'm
just a nice person. Yeah, they always think that it
comes from something. It's happened to me enough to I
had to think about it, like what am I doing?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
You've got to be a little more.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Oh you do you actually do? You had to kind
of like be stand office or a little bit of
an asshold, because soon as you'd be nice, they think
you're trying to do a thing, and it's like, what
the hell. This is just how I was raised, bro, Like,
and I am attentive, So I see maybe you are
missing something and I got it so I could give
it to you.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You guys both have set two different paths on how
you got together to where you are today. You know,
just thinking about you being signed but being more of
a behind the scenes person, and then Trinidad James bursting
onto the scene, like literally being thrust into like, you know,
the middle of this music business. I remember at the
(20:39):
time I was consulting for Atlantic and there was a
huge bidding war, and I remember being in this a
and r meeting and they're like, the price is going up.
We got to offer him at least this if we
want to get him, and you ultimately ended up signing
to Deaf Jam and two million dollars.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I mean that was like all the talk at that time.
You know when that happened.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Do you feel like you were heard at that time
for the music business, because it wasn't something you had
been chasing, like you said before.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
So I was spiritually prepared, but I wasn't logistically prepared,
like as far as like knowledge, Like I had no background.
I hadn't been like everybody in the business. And one
day somebody's going to when you know they do documentaries
and all the things, and my name comes up God Willing,
and like you really get into it, Like I'm a
(21:27):
big fan of music period before I ever touched a mic,
I don't know if anybody that just started and then
popped everybody got like there, like they was the man
in Pittsburgh or the man in Toronto, and then the man.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
In hair hair, hair, and then regional.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Finally you know what I'm saying, they moved from their
city and then it popped off in another city. But
like you know, what I'm saying, Like Tupac's success felt
like it got better in California when he came to
the West Coast, but he was already doing things in places,
and so with me, it's like where I started, at
that point where I started when we met each other
like eight months later, you know what I'm saying on
the breakfast.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Club or whatever.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
That allowed us to that kind of I knew that
because I'm still here and I'm talking to you who
know were trauma. I've been through what I've been through.
But it's like, oh, this is part of the business.
I realized that I just didn't know the knowledge. But
I definitely was spiritually an image wise ready, which is
to me as a three part monster. When you're coming
into this game, how whatever your style like natural Grace
(22:29):
and genesee Quah has to already be a thing that's
your star.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, I think what label.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
They're always trying to make people be like an artist
as successful, but they took you to be something different
than that.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I was my own.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Blueprint compared to like, you can't tell me to be
one hundred two thousand.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You can't tell me to be James Brown. You can't
tell you.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
Have nobody to really even compare me too at that
time in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, So I'm the blueprint
the origin of black expression musically for the twenty tens
moving forward?
Speaker 4 (23:05):
How were you able to pivot?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And then also, I know that you've supported a lot
of artists, and we talked about a lot of artists
that you work with and having your own agency. What
made you say, Okay, this is going to be the
natural progression.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Of what I do depression, depression mixed with also success
helping people In twenty fourteen, when I first ever experienced
depression period, I never got depressed until I got into
this business.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
At least it feels that way, right. I always tell
myself that.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
But I really didn't, Like I've been sad when I
was in the hood, but nobody.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Was talking like, oh are you depressed, bro? You just depressed?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Like nah, bro, stop crying or you better not cry, right,
And so to actually be aware of something being depression,
it was like, oh, I got money, so I shouldn't
have any worries, right, But why why am I depressed?
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And that is that how I got out of.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
The depression was helping another artist's name is thirty one gram.
He's from Atlanta, Georgia. We still work together to this day.
We actually have a project coming out too. And helping
him help me to get a better perspective on my
own self. And then once I submitted to understanding that
(24:22):
I don't have control of everything, then things became more
free and blessed started to come back in my life.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So I never forgot about that.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
So then moving forward himTo only Rethon, I give you
that is because in twenty twenty it happened again. And
that's why Bro it's so important. Me and Bro dropped
our first album together. But he's just producing. I'm doing
all the front man stuff because that's how we meet.
He's coming off with a tea pain success and a
Carterifour and Britney Spurs.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
This man mad stuff.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
This man is a monster, like a decade before we
even meet, he's a monster. He's you just never talked
to him. You know how this businesses people that's done
mad stuff? That yeah time right, you know, yeah, come
on you look.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You don't have a yeah quite quite right. Yeah, I
don't grow very much there to begin with, So I
get it about here.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
If they come in I nick but to finishing what
you were saying. Twenty it happens the game and dropp
an album. The pandemic happens and stops my motion because
performing is how I get paid. I don't but depend
on streams and all that things. How it sh changed, I.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Still know I go do these shows.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
People love my show. The music is better now, Oh
you know what I'm saying. And then the year before
I just did uncut Gems with I'm saddling like I'm
going crazy.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
This is independent. I got to know nothing right.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
It's just me doing that, me and Bro doing it,
and I know that the music is getting better. In
twenty twenty was the first time where I felt like,
now you can actually judge me on music because now
I'm ready. This is also eight years later everything before
I was like, hey, bro, this advertising. I'm figuring it
out in real time, so you can either rock with
me as I figured it out or not.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
This is the sus sense that you, whether people like.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
You or not, you still have a job to do
once fame enters into your ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah yeah, And I think you can't let other people's
opinions like destroy your motivation.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Or he wasn't ready for the business.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And I mean, and you've made a lot of money
off of people sampling you too, and you learned your
pockets and nothing but learn.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
But that's what I'm saying. That's that's the don't get
it mistaken.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
There's a part of trying that, James that I definitely
have financial freedom, my nigga, okay, But there is also
a bigger part of me that knows that the job
is not done. The music proves it to me, the
fashion proves it to me.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
My friend prove.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
It to me that it's still more leadership for me
to get better at. That mean, it's more things for
me to lead. So the job is not done. So
I got work to done. What Kobe saying, job's not done?
Job's not done.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
On this project. And I saw you told the story
about Kilani. Yeah, and you guys had a song that
was special to you. Tell me how that went and
does that happen often with.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Our personal songs? Not that often, but what songs we like? Uh?
And we wanted to go one way and then go
another all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Like we write something for somebody, they don't understand it.
We got a song that we did for Flow MILLI
called conceded. Yeah, you know, I had to hook in
two thousands about at while you know what I'm saying,
like early, and we shopped it to everyone we had.
We had a girl named Brie, she cut it, and
(27:57):
then we even got it to the City Girls. I
remember at a time and before they did the separation
things was the women. We knew everything that was going on.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Behind the scenes, looking at women's music like it was
ESPN like it was.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, bro, it was crazy. So we were just looking
at it. We had all kinds of records because Seed,
it was one of those ones that passed a lot
of different hands, and even with the City Girls, it
would have probably ended up coming out on They loved
the record, but they was they was about to do this,
They was about to do this up and nobody really knew.
The timing wasn't right and so ended up Conceited, ended
up on Flow because of my guy co Signed, who
(28:35):
was in the interns, another producer Onie. He was in
the meeting with Skane at r c A and he
had played a song for him that was already sold.
On accident, he played a song that he did for
Lady London called what Is It Giving, which is a
crazy record and off Flow Millie would have been a
crazy record, true, but they ended up doing business. I
(28:55):
can't I can't do it because I just I forgot.
I didn't mean to play this. Uh and so after
that he was like, well, well you got to play
me something. He had nothing. He texts me boom fire.
I needed one, right and just one, just one thing.
So I texted him literally that one song. They played it.
They called me back immediately, Oh it's the best. It's
(29:17):
the best, because you know, I literally I'm sitting playing
with my boy Hendrix at the crib, just hanging out,
living life, and he hits me with that and I
just sent the beat and then went back to playing.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So I'm chilling and then he kiss me back, and
then it is scanning and then he gets Flow on
the phone and she's like, oh, this is crazy. And
she was in a rut. She wasn't really rocking with nobody.
This is the first time she had worked with anybody
outside herself. She's very much into herself. She don't like
rocking with nobody, even producer wise. She will kick them out.
She just worked by herself, but with us, she allowed us.
(29:49):
She actually kind of really kicked the door open for
us to really know how to position ourselves working with
other women because it was such a perfect thing. She
was getting managed by Ebony at a time who manages
Flow a man just Gunna and Trinity has a relationship
with her, and so it was just very family like.
It wasn't It made it very comfortable Flow to be
herself and do her thing and allow us to do
(30:09):
our thing and the song to be what it needed
to be, you know what I'm saying. So for us,
that like that was that was the start of the
genesis of.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Like even black women plaques, Yes, come on, Like you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Like like giving given women plaques. Like that's what kind
of boiled down to when I kind of looked at us,
like I realized, maybe a couple of years prior to
tween twenty, when we had did another artist Ain't Take
Money or whatever, white girl from Dallas Fire Voice, stupid shit,
we put her, Uh, we got, we worked, we got
(30:42):
to work with her, and that record put us on
When Billboard is just connected with TikTok number three on
twenty twenty. That's in the Pandemic. We still pulled that
off with the record. I understand the assignment, you know
what I'm saying. We did that. That was a banger
back in the day, back in the day, twenty.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Twenty twenty one, six years ago.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
But two years prior to that, and why even bring
that up?
Speaker 5 (31:07):
That the depression of our the depression of our album
because I couldn't tour in twenty twenty put me to
doing behind the scenes, right, And then we did take
money and it went on Billboard and I was like, well, hey,
and we got money on it, and then I got
picked up from Soccery, the shoe company.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Tony Socking. Is how you really say it?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I know, look I have some and they because you
don't know who, we say it's people, you know, it's soccer.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Was doing reads for them and everything.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And sush, yeah, soccer.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
But yeah, So they hit me up in the Pandemic
when the album is going through, like, oh, I can't tour,
Like yo, you still want to do that shoot that
we talked about in twenty eighteen. Also in twenty eighteen,
I kind of said to myself, I'm like, yo.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I had never really worked with women.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
I had a success up to like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,
something like that, and I was like, I never really
worked with any women, and then so I was like,
let me just start actually intentionally working with him. And
then that turned in to like start writing with different
people than we. I did Bad Baby, her first hit record.
I did that whatever high bitch.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Bitch that's to call it. I didn't. I didn't for
that one. I didn't get to do that one. I
want to work with it on something else.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
But at the time, I don't like working too closely
with like little kids, how whatever.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I like to get you a little bit older, when
you're a little bit more adult. I don't have any kids,
so it's like like he got the kids just.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Like I'm But I say, I have to say that
twenty eighteen, making it making an intention of the Bad
babything working more girls coming my way, because you know
how the industry is, he's one thing worked.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
They send everybody work.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Yeah, here's my daughter, right, And so that got us
to twenty where like bull Now we were working with Cardi
B and Gus of what we're crushing stuff with the
City girls, and I forget about the cards and then
take money comes out of that or whatever. Twenty But
that's all the success is happening when I'm when we
(33:11):
meet whatever it is, it's helping others. But then on
the personal side, I can't tour and it's hurt, like
on our album was getting affected. So that was a
that's what the depression came in. And that's why I
started helping others. Because's why I learned in twenty fourteen
with my boy Graham, you help, somebody's gonna help me.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It did.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah, board I even did Quinn Niger that year. Yeah,
on Butterflies Part.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Two, that was great.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
That was number one.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Yeah, bringing black women's success, that's all we're doing woman's success.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Do you have to take a consideration when you know
people don't like each other, like this person, even though
you have nothing to do with it, you do have.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Something to do with it, but you walk in the room. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I was just gonna say. I think that was also
the reason why we were able to have so much success,
because we were able to manage all the different personalities
and not get them going. If anything, we brought unity
to that situation and collaboration to that situation. We didn't
bring any division. That's our whole spirit is coming together.
There's obviously a better you know, depending on how things
When we would have loved to have had more collaboration,
(34:15):
but generally like it was love, you know what I'm saying.
Like even like with Lakey, I remember when Lakia we
got Lakia and Flow on a song together too, Like
there's there's a lot of songs like it can be fostered.
It's all about the stewardship. Like these relationships are brought
in controversy because that also generates a thing, you know,
(34:36):
like it brings money and other kind of money, not
the music money, but other things. So people benefit from
that and that's why that lives.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
And and you got to know how to keep it
in your pants. Oh that's the biggest I'm trying to
tell you. The power of keeping it in your pants
is if you, honestly, if we could give you a
spiderwab of all the value that we genuinely been able
to give to women in music is just keeping at
women in music, because.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
That's really our superpower, or at least for the past five.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Years, it is sixty to seventy percent of that power
and the opportunity comes from like, first of all, you
feel safe. When you feel safe, you feel vulnerable. And
the other side of vulnerability is a wall. That's all
the hits are.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, the other side of the wall.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
No.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I love that you said that. I remember certain women
artists who have discussed, like they'll talk specifically about men
that they felt safe in the studio with and they
felt respected by. And that's always stood out to me
when women have said, oh, I was in the studio
with Jay Cole and he was so like made me
feel so comfortable and so respected. And when you hear
(35:43):
things like that, it makes you have a whole other
level of like, Okay, that's so dope, because we've also
heard a lot of stories about when things have gone left. Yeah,
you know, and some of those stories will never be
told publicly here, and it's traumatizing, right.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Got left are right fucking hand?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, for sure, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Well, listen, I love to see it, and I know
you guys have a lot going on, you know, just
be visiting. Also, Trinidad James, you did the Freshman double
XL cover that in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Amazing. What a cover, What a cover.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Looking back at that because I was looking at some
of the people that were on that cover.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Travis Scott, Joey, badass.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Schoolboy c Is he right, Keith, I'm.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
So yeah, he was locked up. He couldn't be there
in person. Yep logic. And don't forget about the girl though.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
It's a girl, Angel Hayes.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
She's a dope model. Now if anybody cares, yeah, like
she's dope. I liked Angel. Well, let me say this.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I learned so much about women for working with women
these last five years, and I wish I knew it
when I met Angel, because I didn't give her the
grace that I know how to give her.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And we're cool now, but I just thought that she
was a bitch.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
And I can say this not because she's so not
that she just went through traumatic ass shit and us
as man, we don't have no goddamn understanding how to
deal with traumatic as ship because we don't be going
through nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We don't get raped. We do. But you know what
I'm saying, Like it's the.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Statistic of a woman going through with the cover with
somebody just taking your freedom compared to a man. People
think twice about taking a man's freedom unless we in
prison per se, you know, so it's just different.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
One. She was acting like she's.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Just nobody had no nobody had no love for her,
and like, of course it made her. She was snappy
with everybody, but of course ain't. Nobody was showing it
no love how whatever type. But we didn't know, like
look at the crew of guys there. Those are men's men.
If you think about how we're thinking, right, they come
from TDE and here and there and there.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
And all these type of things.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
It's like nobody was disrespecting her or nothing, however, because
she also respect Yeah, it wasn't like friendly, like how
it could have been compared to like how we are
better with I understanding our emotions because we've kind of
like had to pay attention to it because the Internet
is showing us like.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
We got you better.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
What was there ever a time that you felt like
you were so successful and then people turn their backs
on you, like people that you was cool with that
you try to reach out to, or do you feel
like it always was kind of even for you when it.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Came to nice. It happened, man, it happened.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
I went through a situation in New York where I
said something. Yeah, you know, we went through that moment,
and like, you know, that all triggered into my depression
coming into the following year. I think the statement and
the virality and negativity of it happened in the end
of twenty thirteen, but it carried into twenty fourteen, and
that's like it triggered my depression. What triggered the depression.
(38:39):
It's crazy you asked, that is because certain people or
companies turn their back on me in New York City,
And I was like, damn, it hurt because for me
it was such an honor or. It is actually because
we're in such a great place now. It is such
an honor to be respected in New York. I'm Atlanta
all day. I'm an Atown nigga show, don't get a mistaken.
(39:01):
But I also grew up here. I wasn't born in America.
I was born in Triny And I lived mad places
before I lived in New York, before I lived in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah, New York got a lot of training people mad.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
My family is here like all over Brooklyn, whatever, you
know what I'm saying, queens, whatever, and so it's like, Nah,
it's like when the respect was so high, like when
you get a certain type of respect in New York,
like being that girl in New York and being that
girl in other places.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Don't hit the same. I don't care where are you from.
It just don't hit the same.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
Like you can have seven trillion dollars in Detroit, you
don't hit like having one million in New York.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
It's just a different type of thing. And so I
said that to say, like it really hurt me that
people did. But what.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
And that's God but he can't but he but I
ran into May. It's so crazy and it was cool.
I ended up startling him for a shot with the
you know what I'm saying, like, that's not something that
never made the camera. Yeah, because it's like until something
happens in person, right, until you actually do something in
my face to me or me to you, everything is
kind of hearsay, a rumor or a lie.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
That's just the.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Truth of it before you styled him or was it just.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Yeah, we know it's two separate things. It wasn't even
that's how much we had grown. We ran and teaches
some mother, We ran into each other on some ship
where it could have went down, but it didn't because
that's just not where it ever was.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
He's different, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
And this is years ago, but you know, I mean,
the the maino now is a whole different set of man.
You know, however, but that's I mean, I think it's
anybody his age. All those guys are different, Like you
know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, like that's growth, that's growth.
Like this ship don't get no good retirement plan. So
(40:46):
now we are structuring. I looked at Charlemagne, yourself, everybody,
I would I look at y'all's flaws too, And back
then it's things that Charllemagne could have did better by
certain people, by me, like just the that he handled
it or whatever. But we forget that people go through
personal things and we bring it to our jobs and
(41:06):
it's human to flaw. And I think that because therapy
and counseling and spiritual spiritualism has become such a thing,
we see new manos, new fabulouses and everybody, everybody who
got a mic now is a new person because talking
is different than screaming, yelling, rapping.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Oh yeah, and there's a different type of piece that
comes with also knowing that you are multi faceted, multi skill,
multi hype in it, and there's so many things you
could be doing and so many different streams coming in.
And I think that positive outlook on things brings that
positive energy to you.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
Not everybody trying to get you or oh, I don't
know what angela about today or what you know what
you're gonna say.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
It's like come home, we say, we drink water and
my my business.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
That part right right right right up yourself.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Are we gonna do this Soca album to no?
Speaker 5 (42:03):
So the Soca album I'm gonna started in twenty twenty seven,
I've been I put my I have a cousin.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
His name is DJ Chang. He lives in Triny. He's
living Triny his whole life.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
I really want to get him a visa so he
can come to America and DJ he'll bust it down crazy,
especially in New York. But I made him my A
and R actually a couple of days ago for the
Soca album because he's he's on boots on the ground
every day, Like right now he's telling me about like
steam like that's a stype of rhythm and trinny that's
going crazy with the youths. It's like kind of like
with the Wii n and the sexy raids of Triny,
(42:34):
Like that's what type of beats.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Like a Lady Lava, Okay, you know what, she's so good.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
She's so good. She's one of my favorites actually right now.
Of course, like if she wasn't, then you know it's.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Rigged off top.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
But yeah, so like you know, steam and steam Zest
Triny Bid. Like when I was in trienty, Triny Bod
was just starting with like Swanee and Gelano and Trinity
I Killer and people like that.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
But now Triny bad.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
As birthed you got Zess with zess was to me,
I thought it was just like having a bunch of
gold on but now Zess is a rhythm. And now
they got Steamed, which is another rhythm. And I'm like, yo,
it's elevating so much. So I got I made him
my so keep me in the loops.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
You know about all this?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, I have not.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
Have you been to Iowa?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
No? I have not.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Okay, you guys need a documents.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
You got to do a little I like that.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
That's and they were like me and was crazy, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
I love to see that when we do the content.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And then telling me you guys got to go. But
I appreciate you all for being here today. This was
a great conversation. The music is fun, the visuals are amazing,
you know. Congratulations to both of you. I love seeing
the link up and it feels very authentic.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Stress.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yes,
What's up his way for the angela yea, and I
have two special guests here with me today, but I
might unless you introduce yourselves, because I don't know what
we're going by today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
What's going on the world.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am best, I'm dressed, and we are best dressed.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
I know that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
But also Grammy Award winning all that. Also entrepreneurs also
best dressed.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Period whatever since the beginning.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
And I guess we could say actors.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Too, all that, yes, all the things, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Multi hyphen it's in other words, how you today? Okay,
how are you feeling?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Incredible? And gifts too that.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
What I love is that you also stole a book.
We don't mind when people steal books.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh yeah, oh.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
Yeah, but I told you, I told you, I told
you I got my.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Dad's sacks strong all doubts. She knows, you know that's
your suirt.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Okay, cool, you know, make sure now we traded gifts.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Instill this book no more, okay, because we actually get
a lot of books up here.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
I like to read and I also use audible all
the time.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
But I also think it's great, like if we have
an extra, we like to keep it here because what
a nice gift to give somebody a book nowadays.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Especially if they actually read it.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Yeah, what's the last book you've read?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I think Malcolm Gladwell.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
All right, that's a classic one. Yeah, what about your best?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
You know?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
The last one that I read that I really hit
me was The Mountains You, which is a crazy, like
digging into yourself type of book. I don't know if
you've ever heard of it.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
No, I haven't, but now I'm going to look at it.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Honestly, he's the real book.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
God, if you're ready to really like tear yourself apart
and reput it together, that book is beautiful.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
The Mountain Is You. That could also go really well
with this song too Much, Come on, get up.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yet, it up Up?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I gotta say you're from You're from Iowa, which is
so interesting. I know one other person from Iowa personally,
my friends Ina.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
She's a writer.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
She literally over the weekend just went to her high
school reunion.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And she went there because she said she had a
lot of trauma from back then being like the only
black kids.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oh yeah in her class, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And so she went to kind of try to like
address that and heal it.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I would love to hear what your experience was like
in Ioa.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, you know, honestly, I think that my experience in
Iowa prepped me for the real world. You know, the
world is run by people that are in Iowa. So
if you can handle growing up there, then you can
handle pretty much anything. So you know, you have to
kind of learn how to navigate as a black man
in a lot of different spaces, and it really prepared
me very so I actually am grateful in this my
(02:47):
adult age. I'm grateful. When I was going up, it
was like, oh my God, get me out of here.
But but you know, as I've gotten older, I got
appreciation for how I grew up there. And there's a
certain type of respect that they have in the Midwest too,
just for one another that really appreciate.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
About Iowa and Trinidad. James, You've been everywhere. I mean,
you grew up.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
You were born in Trinidad, correct, which is that's the
name Trinidad, James. And they're doing the Caribbean Music Awards
in Trinidad.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Finally, and the place where they're doing is really amazing too.
Like anybody that's never been to Trinidad, it feels like
our version of in Australia where they have the Symphony,
we have a building is so beautiful and that's what
they're doing the Caribbean Awards that this year for the
first time in Trinidad. So Marchelle and like everybody, I
(03:33):
think they're really going to put on a really great show.
This building is beautiful.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Were you planning to go?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, you know, I'm gonna go to this.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
This is this building is so amazing, Like people really
like the show is gonna be a great show.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It always is. The one that I went to, the
one in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
But the one in Brooklyn, I want to say because
I'm from Brooklyn, so it's so easy for me. Yeah,
and I want to say it's one of the most fun,
entertaining shows just because the music they're dancing, the vibes.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
It is like.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
When it comes to like a fun awards show, that's it.
Because normally they could be a little stush, but this.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Is not man man.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So now that word always gives me in real life.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
If anybody doesn't know what slush means, means bougie and Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, min slush woman, everything.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Don't be stush.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
But no, definitely plan to go to the awards.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
I think that I love going to the first of
something or having the first or something like even like
when buying a shoe, or if like a black designer
makes something like their first thing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
How about not have everything. I don't want everything that
virtual made, but the first, like the first thing to
me always a whole a little way.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Do you sell things ever?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Okay, but not as not as much as maybe I
should because I have that hoarding spirit.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
To me too, because I always feel like when I'm
buying something, I justify it about like, well, this is
valuable and it's gonna be But then I don't sell it.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
So what was the point of me?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Well, my I guess my not even rebuttal but to
my piggyback with that, how I kind of my excuse.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Basically, I'm not hurting like I'm selling my stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Because hoarding is also not good. You know, it's like
sometimes bad hoarding. Okay, what's the difference.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
I think bad hoarding is where it's like you have
the like the same color, like the same Rick Owen
shirt or whatever, and it's like you only defining it
about this the ninety three, this ninety five, this the
two thousand and two it's like, bro, sell a couple
of those you only like you know, it's not like
it's honestly, everybody has an excuse that they can make
(05:39):
because they're like, hey, in ninety three, a fifth like this,
and the ninety five.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
You've done this.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
That's why I boil it down to like basic.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
No matter how fly you are, you still boil down
to your every day is a certain palate.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
And so to me, the elevation of your fashions should get.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
To a place where it's like, bro, let me get
some more money so I could buy things that match
where my palette has grown to compared to holding on
the things that you won't even wear no more. Yeah,
and you don't even and you're not a good reseller. Yeah,
so you know what I'm saying. So it's like if
you get that, when I get the opportunity to sell things,
which is very rare, like somebody like saying like, oh bro,
you got this still or whatever, then I take advantage in,
(06:19):
but I don't go chasing it.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
You'll be good to have a store online.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think, oh, that'd be crazy.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Because then you don't know what's.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Authentic, because that's another thing to want to make sure
something's real when you're But I also like the idea
of clearing out space sometimes and saying, you know what,
I just get a.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
New place and don't bring new stuff.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Well, you know, I put it in storage, and like
I bring like the things that I That's what I
realized because I've moved a lot to a certain extent
over the last set of years, and from house to house.
It's like, I realize that I'm only taking a certain
amount because I know I'm going to buy more stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
That's just what we do. We buy things.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
And so it's like if you don't want your house
to become clothes like water, clothes and shoes and the
sessions they're like water, so they can start filling up
everywhere and they can fit in everywhere. So you have
closed in this closse, this person's room on the bed.
It's like, hey, what are we doing? So I like
to start with a clean house, small, yeah stuff, and.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Then build from there.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And then you and I spending all this money on
the storage that you don't never go get stuff out of.
I had to just guddle out my storage and be like,
let me just get rid of all this stuff and
You're like, why did I pay all this money? I
could have bought all this stuff again right instead of
putting it in storage?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Now, how did y'all link up?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Ooh?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So we met actually in a session in between management.
We met by a guy named Danny shout out my
dog yeah, And I remember them having a meeting with me.
They're like, yo, you wouldn't have want to happened to
have a session with Trinidad James, thinking like, I don't know.
They didn't know if I would like that or not.
I was like, hell yeah, because I was already up
(07:53):
on Trenning, I had my homework. I loved his interviews,
Like I liked the music, but I loved his interviews.
To me, that was what was appealing. You know, mind you,
I came in the game super early with like Tea Paints.
I came in already signed as a producer to Tea
Pain and so I didn't really care about fame person.
I really cared about the person because I also know
(08:14):
when you when you listen, you gotta work with him.
Like it was like the talent is everybody got talent,
but you gotta work with him. So I want to
like the person. So when they brought him up, I
was like, oh, yeah, for sure, and our first session
was amazing. He pulled up and asked me something nobody
ever asked me, which is like, what's the craziest beats
that you got that nobody ever writes to? And I
was like yeah. I pulled him up and then he
(08:35):
wrote some crazy like just like what is this? His
brain works different? And then I was like, it's kind
of like a step brother's moment. You look at each
other like, bro, yep, did we just become friends right now?
I think it might be my bro, you know. And
then we did the hell the Hollywood thing for a
couple of weeks because we're both very busy and you know,
(08:56):
we didn't really talk. And then after a minute, I
remember being intentional like, yo, I'm gonna hit him beause
I don't really hit people. I'm very bad at that,
but I'm gonna hit him because I actually we had
a great session and I want to keep working. And
we did, and then when we got back to second time,
that was when it was it was like, okay, yeah,
we actually actual rock with you know, we kind of
we started out with this like we both played basketball too,
(09:16):
so It's like we had this like game win streak.
So every session if we if we made a joint,
it was like, oh, we keep going, we have I
think we did, like before we stopped counting like twenty joints.
That was just like, oh, like every time, take.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
It because it's the personal experience. Like at the end
of the day, how do you want the consumer? Obviously
the love your door, your music per se, but more
importantly it starts with how do the producer and the
artists and the people making the product, how do you
feel about your product?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
First?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Like are you making something that you're intentional about? Are
you making something that you love? Is it based off
of good conversation?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
First?
Speaker 5 (09:51):
Being the construct or the formula or the foundation of
the product. No matter what it sounds like, it doesn't
matter if it's a trap record, R and B record,
pop record, blues record.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Soca, how do you know? It's like what where is
it basing from?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
And like you said, you know, going that twenty for
twenty streak that we want that we went on. For me,
it was so important because I wasn't being pushed by nobody.
Everybody's very intimidated by me because I have myself together
as a man first, and then the way that I
dress and present myself is just the thing about it
(10:27):
is like a star is already born.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
You got to figure out how to shine. That's how
life is.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
And so when you walking in your light, you got
people that are dim going through things, feeling the type
of way towards you, and you're not trying to do
anything with them, blind them, dim them, or anything. I
went through a personal experience that you had nothing to
do with. And so when I met my point of
saying that is when I got to bro in the
midst of these twenty sessions to get these twenty songs
(10:52):
or whatever, my light didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Affect his light.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
His light stayed bright, and that allowed me to know that, oh,
I could keep working with this person.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Right because in our business, as you know that you can.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Talk to everybody because it's a job, but you're only
going to connect with certain type of people that aligned
with your life. And that's why we you know, ten
eleven years later, we you know, best dress? What's the
dress code? Too much in our pants?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yaha?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Hello listen and what a fun song that is. Now,
when you think about making music and when you think
about this album?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
What's the dress code? Were you?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Because it feels like y'all did this because you love
it and it's fun and it's musical. Did you think
about how like, because a lot of times we have
to think about like how are people going to perceive it?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Do sales matter? What genre is it?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
What was the thought process behind what you wanted this
to do and what it represented?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
To be honest, this is probably the most honest music
available because it's made from two guys that don't have
to do it, but are doing it, you.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So we literally just did what we came to us
instead of trying to chase that we both work, you know,
with all these artists. That was like the premise of
our original relationship was working for other artists. You know,
we work with Flow, Melely and and and all the women.
We did like a very sex all the we work
all the all the women. That was really a part
(12:15):
of our journey was like we realized working when men
was it was a difficult thing because of the ego,
even though we didn't have no ego. You get us together,
Oh my god, some guys are like, oh my god,
they're just thinking that the craziest things. But with women,
they look at us like father figures. So it worked
really great because I'm also a dad, so you know,
like I'm very comforting. I understand. I'm not going to
(12:36):
be I'm not in no woman's business or messy, you
know what I mean. So we work really well with women.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I like that because I've heard so many people say
how hard it is to work with women artists. That's
always been like the music business kind of chatter when
it comes to executives, like women are more difficult, they
cost more money, they have to get here, makeup, they
got to look right, they got to do this, they
gotta do that. But for you guys, that was more
of the we this they're more receptive.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, just you know, it worked out that way for us.
I would say that I'm sure people have that experience
for sure. I would never validate that for other people.
But for us, because of our personalities and what we
wanted out of the game, it was perfect. You know,
It's a perfect fit. Like we look to pour into people.
That's what we would love to do well.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
It also feels like you understand also like image and
looking right and how important that is because I think
a lot of times I could just throw on some
sweats and be ready to go. And you understand that
seeing that best dress is important for you know the
image of I.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Mean Angela, his name took four hours to do.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I can't even compete right now, and what I wanted
to I love what you you pretty much said it.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
But it's like when you can understand a woman's maintenance,
then you can understand, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
How to work with a woman because you can monetize
that even more than anything that was saying, like.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
When we're we're making we don't tell people.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
I say this all the time. We already said a
million times now like I'm not here. We're not here
to tell you what to do. Who are here to
show you who you are and mind you who you
can be. You are already it, It is already written
the words, the moment, the fact that you're even talking
to me, I'm standing out the way. I'm not chasing nobody.
So when you aligned or you come into my ecosystem
(14:24):
is because your universe is working well, your life is
doing well. Your life wants to put you with somebody
who can bring value to you. But sometimes somebody just
put you there, you have to be ready to understand
your discernment of like, oh, these people are valuable. And
so what we realize based on what he was saying
is that women could see because of the attention that
(14:47):
we pay that like, oh, it's worth not giving them
the headache that they will give to the dude who
maybe potentially trying to do something with them, or you
know what I'm saying, you got too much in his
pains triple on Tiendra.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And that's why, like when it comes to this project,
it's like I'm going to free myself of all of
it and do what we really really just want to
do and we think is actually missing, you know. And
for us it's about fun, you know, like having a
good time the original reason you know what I'm saying,
to create entertained.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Who's having all the fun right now? The girl?
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah, like listen, it's a time right now, enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I love it as a woman. How do you feel
right now?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
First of all, I think it's been and I think
for the past few years it's been the women like
we have so much to listen to, to choose from whatever
type of mood.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
And I also love that the men get mad at
some of the songs too.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I enjoy that because we used to have to deal
with a lot when it comes to male songs.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And how do you feel about like the NDI Iran
like Kreshia moment, that music moment with them, how do
you feel because you have a good perspective to give
them that.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Yeah, I mean, first of all, they'll tell you right here.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I love that Young Miami song. When I was just
in Saint Thomas for Carnival.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
That was.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
No, I was not, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I know you was with Swaggy recently, she was
with us and we were having a great time, not
being stish it off forget in some moments.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
But Verse Simmons was there, you know, and Sweeter.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
They were all out there, and so that song was
really like bubbling when we got there, and so that
was our soundtrack. Like that song is always gonna remind
me of that trip. And so for me, I look
at like India Irie and you know her point of view.
She's she's got a different stance, and I think that's
always gonna happen. Like certain music is going to be
polarizing for people they're not and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
You can it's art.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So some people would be like, I don't like this,
it's not my vibe, and they have every right to
say that and express that, And then some people are
going to be like, I'm just having a good time.
It's like Sexy Red. You know, I have a good
time listening to Sexy Red music. Now, I don't think
that like me and her do the same, you know
what she's talking about. I'm not, but it's just music.
Like it's kind of like having an alter ego moment
(16:59):
where you can just have fun.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
It's like people all the people love n w A
and like gangster.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Yeah I'm not. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
You know, I don't be out there doing shooting, no
police or nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
But you know that's really real because we was never
doing any of the things Wayne and any of them
guys talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a very good point.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, So I think you just it's always like this
battle right now over lyrics being used in court and
stuff like that. But a lot of times that is
just not necessarily people's reality, or it maybe things from
like the past or a story somebody else told them
that they're expressing. But music is not supposed to be
necessarily real life. Sometimes it is you know, Molly and
(17:42):
was sweating for real?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Happened to happen.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
But you know, the beautiful thing about it is like
basically what you just said, the last thing you said.
How That's why we did What's the dress Code album?
Because it is a.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Lifestyle expression of how we are really living life.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Because that's all I kind of really know. And just
since the first time you ever met me, all I
knew was to be real with y'all. I don't know
how to be that fake Hollico stuff. I've learned it now,
but I still don't even like doing it. I only
feel good in LA Like it don't feel good. It
genuinely do not feel good being fake in New York.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Tell me what it's like being fake, Like, what do
you have to do?
Speaker 5 (18:24):
You gotta have your eye your eye game got to
be right. So it's like, you know, not care, or
you got the serious scam. So you got the serious scam.
Like damn, I'm not saying much. I'm not talking something
for bringing you into the scam. O that, or I
could love bomb you and then you know what I'm saying, Oh,
I'm giving you gifts, I'm bothering you up.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Yeah, right, you know what I'm saying, Like in different ways.
You know what I'm saying, you don't know because the
same emotion, and I handed to you genuinely because the
same emotion the same It's like you got to tell
the truth and then you.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Know what's so crazy? They actually brought up a real
point that I always say this to people. A good
person looks exactly like a bad person to somebody that's
like traumatized. It's the same behavior. It's the same behavior
because of bad Yeah, Like a bad person will take
care of you in a way that like you look
at him like are you really here for me or not?
(19:24):
You know, and a good person is just doing what
they normally do. So it's it's for you to decipher,
and you don't always know because you have great actors,
you know what I mean, Like the Yeah, there's so
many good actors. And I've realized I've realized that because
I fallen victim to it a lot. Like sometimes my
genuineness it comes off like I'm brough from Iowa, bro,
Like I don't even be thinking, I'm just completely genuine,
(19:46):
Like that's all I do, Like I don't even.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So then when people look at you weird, it's like, bro,
I'm just nice, you know what I mean, Like I'm
just a nice person. Yeah, they always think that it
comes from something. It's happened to me enough to I
had to think about it, like what am I doing?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
You've got to be a little more.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Oh you do you actually do? You had to kind
of like be stand office or a little bit of
an asshold, because soon as you'd be nice, they think
you're trying to do a thing, and it's like, what
the hell. This is just how I was raised, bro, Like,
and I am attentive, So I see maybe you are
missing something and I got it so I could give
it to you.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You guys both have set two different paths on how
you got together to where you are today. You know,
just thinking about you being signed but being more of
a behind the scenes person, and then Trinidad James bursting
onto the scene, like literally being thrust into like, you know,
the middle of this music business. I remember at the
(20:39):
time I was consulting for Atlantic and there was a
huge bidding war, and I remember being in this a
and r meeting and they're like, the price is going up.
We got to offer him at least this if we
want to get him, and you ultimately ended up signing
to Deaf Jam and two million dollars.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I mean that was like all the talk at that time.
You know when that happened.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Do you feel like you were heard at that time
for the music business, because it wasn't something you had
been chasing, like you said before.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
So I was spiritually prepared, but I wasn't logistically prepared,
like as far as like knowledge, Like I had no background.
I hadn't been like everybody in the business. And one
day somebody's going to when you know they do documentaries
and all the things, and my name comes up God Willing,
and like you really get into it, Like I'm a
(21:27):
big fan of music period before I ever touched a mic,
I don't know if anybody that just started and then
popped everybody got like there, like they was the man
in Pittsburgh or the man in Toronto, and then the man.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
In hair hair, hair, and then regional.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Finally you know what I'm saying, they moved from their
city and then it popped off in another city. But
like you know, what I'm saying, Like Tupac's success felt
like it got better in California when he came to
the West Coast, but he was already doing things in places,
and so with me, it's like where I started, at
that point where I started when we met each other
like eight months later, you know what I'm saying on
the breakfast.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Club or whatever.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
That allowed us to that kind of I knew that
because I'm still here and I'm talking to you who
know were trauma. I've been through what I've been through.
But it's like, oh, this is part of the business.
I realized that I just didn't know the knowledge. But
I definitely was spiritually an image wise ready, which is
to me as a three part monster. When you're coming
into this game, how whatever your style like natural Grace
(22:29):
and genesee Quah has to already be a thing that's
your star.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, I think what label.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
They're always trying to make people be like an artist
as successful, but they took you to be something different
than that.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I was my own.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Blueprint compared to like, you can't tell me to be
one hundred two thousand.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You can't tell me to be James Brown. You can't
tell you.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
Have nobody to really even compare me too at that
time in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, So I'm the blueprint
the origin of black expression musically for the twenty tens
moving forward?
Speaker 4 (23:05):
How were you able to pivot?
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And then also, I know that you've supported a lot
of artists, and we talked about a lot of artists
that you work with and having your own agency. What
made you say, Okay, this is going to be the
natural progression.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Of what I do depression, depression mixed with also success
helping people In twenty fourteen, when I first ever experienced
depression period, I never got depressed until I got into
this business.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
At least it feels that way, right. I always tell
myself that.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
But I really didn't, Like I've been sad when I
was in the hood, but nobody.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Was talking like, oh are you depressed, bro? You just depressed?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
Like nah, bro, stop crying or you better not cry, right,
And so to actually be aware of something being depression,
it was like, oh, I got money, so I shouldn't
have any worries, right, But why why am I depressed?
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And that is that how I got out of.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
The depression was helping another artist's name is thirty one gram.
He's from Atlanta, Georgia. We still work together to this day.
We actually have a project coming out too. And helping
him help me to get a better perspective on my
own self. And then once I submitted to understanding that
(24:22):
I don't have control of everything, then things became more
free and blessed started to come back in my life.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So I never forgot about that.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
So then moving forward himTo only Rethon, I give you
that is because in twenty twenty it happened again. And
that's why Bro it's so important. Me and Bro dropped
our first album together. But he's just producing. I'm doing
all the front man stuff because that's how we meet.
He's coming off with a tea pain success and a
Carterifour and Britney Spurs.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
This man mad stuff.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
This man is a monster, like a decade before we
even meet, he's a monster. He's you just never talked
to him. You know how this businesses people that's done
mad stuff? That yeah time right, you know, yeah, come
on you look.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You don't have a yeah quite quite right. Yeah, I
don't grow very much there to begin with, So I
get it about here.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
If they come in I nick but to finishing what
you were saying. Twenty it happens the game and dropp
an album. The pandemic happens and stops my motion because
performing is how I get paid. I don't but depend
on streams and all that things. How it sh changed, I.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Still know I go do these shows.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
People love my show. The music is better now, Oh
you know what I'm saying. And then the year before
I just did uncut Gems with I'm saddling like I'm
going crazy.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
This is independent. I got to know nothing right.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
It's just me doing that, me and Bro doing it,
and I know that the music is getting better. In
twenty twenty was the first time where I felt like,
now you can actually judge me on music because now
I'm ready. This is also eight years later everything before
I was like, hey, bro, this advertising. I'm figuring it
out in real time, so you can either rock with
me as I figured it out or not.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
This is the sus sense that you, whether people like.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
You or not, you still have a job to do
once fame enters into your ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah yeah, And I think you can't let other people's
opinions like destroy your motivation.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Or he wasn't ready for the business.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
And I mean, and you've made a lot of money
off of people sampling you too, and you learned your
pockets and nothing but learn.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
But that's what I'm saying. That's that's the don't get
it mistaken.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
There's a part of trying that, James that I definitely
have financial freedom, my nigga, okay, But there is also
a bigger part of me that knows that the job
is not done. The music proves it to me, the
fashion proves it to me.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
My friend prove.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
It to me that it's still more leadership for me
to get better at. That mean, it's more things for
me to lead. So the job is not done. So
I got work to done. What Kobe saying, job's not done?
Job's not done.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
On this project. And I saw you told the story
about Kilani. Yeah, and you guys had a song that
was special to you. Tell me how that went and
does that happen often with.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Our personal songs? Not that often, but what songs we like? Uh?
And we wanted to go one way and then go
another all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Like we write something for somebody, they don't understand it.
We got a song that we did for Flow MILLI
called conceded. Yeah, you know, I had to hook in
two thousands about at while you know what I'm saying,
like early, and we shopped it to everyone we had.
We had a girl named Brie, she cut it, and
(27:57):
then we even got it to the City Girls. I
remember at a time and before they did the separation
things was the women. We knew everything that was going on.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Behind the scenes, looking at women's music like it was
ESPN like it was.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, bro, it was crazy. So we were just looking
at it. We had all kinds of records because Seed,
it was one of those ones that passed a lot
of different hands, and even with the City Girls, it
would have probably ended up coming out on They loved
the record, but they was they was about to do this,
They was about to do this up and nobody really knew.
The timing wasn't right and so ended up Conceited, ended
up on Flow because of my guy co Signed, who
(28:35):
was in the interns, another producer Onie. He was in
the meeting with Skane at r c A and he
had played a song for him that was already sold.
On accident, he played a song that he did for
Lady London called what Is It Giving, which is a
crazy record and off Flow Millie would have been a
crazy record, true, but they ended up doing business. I
(28:55):
can't I can't do it because I just I forgot.
I didn't mean to play this. Uh and so after
that he was like, well, well you got to play
me something. He had nothing. He texts me boom fire.
I needed one, right and just one, just one thing.
So I texted him literally that one song. They played it.
They called me back immediately, Oh it's the best. It's
(29:17):
the best, because you know, I literally I'm sitting playing
with my boy Hendrix at the crib, just hanging out,
living life, and he hits me with that and I
just sent the beat and then went back to playing.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So I'm chilling and then he kiss me back, and
then it is scanning and then he gets Flow on
the phone and she's like, oh, this is crazy. And
she was in a rut. She wasn't really rocking with nobody.
This is the first time she had worked with anybody
outside herself. She's very much into herself. She don't like
rocking with nobody, even producer wise. She will kick them out.
She just worked by herself, but with us, she allowed us.
(29:49):
She actually kind of really kicked the door open for
us to really know how to position ourselves working with
other women because it was such a perfect thing. She
was getting managed by Ebony at a time who manages
Flow a man just Gunna and Trinity has a relationship
with her, and so it was just very family like.
It wasn't It made it very comfortable Flow to be
herself and do her thing and allow us to do
(30:09):
our thing and the song to be what it needed
to be, you know what I'm saying. So for us,
that like that was that was the start of the
genesis of.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Like even black women plaques, Yes, come on, Like you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Like like giving given women plaques. Like that's what kind
of boiled down to when I kind of looked at us,
like I realized, maybe a couple of years prior to
tween twenty, when we had did another artist Ain't Take
Money or whatever, white girl from Dallas Fire Voice, stupid shit,
we put her, Uh, we got, we worked, we got
(30:42):
to work with her, and that record put us on
When Billboard is just connected with TikTok number three on
twenty twenty. That's in the Pandemic. We still pulled that
off with the record. I understand the assignment, you know
what I'm saying. We did that. That was a banger
back in the day, back in the day, twenty.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Twenty twenty one, six years ago.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
But two years prior to that, and why even bring
that up?
Speaker 5 (31:07):
That the depression of our the depression of our album
because I couldn't tour in twenty twenty put me to
doing behind the scenes, right, And then we did take
money and it went on Billboard and I was like, well, hey,
and we got money on it, and then I got
picked up from Soccery, the shoe company.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Tony Socking. Is how you really say it?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I know, look I have some and they because you
don't know who, we say it's people, you know, it's soccer.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Was doing reads for them and everything.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And sush, yeah, soccer.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
But yeah, So they hit me up in the Pandemic
when the album is going through, like, oh, I can't tour,
Like yo, you still want to do that shoot that
we talked about in twenty eighteen. Also in twenty eighteen,
I kind of said to myself, I'm like, yo.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I had never really worked with women.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
I had a success up to like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,
something like that, and I was like, I never really
worked with any women, and then so I was like,
let me just start actually intentionally working with him. And
then that turned in to like start writing with different
people than we. I did Bad Baby, her first hit record.
I did that whatever high bitch.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Bitch that's to call it. I didn't. I didn't for
that one. I didn't get to do that one. I
want to work with it on something else.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
But at the time, I don't like working too closely
with like little kids, how whatever.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I like to get you a little bit older, when
you're a little bit more adult. I don't have any kids,
so it's like like he got the kids just.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Like I'm But I say, I have to say that
twenty eighteen, making it making an intention of the Bad
babything working more girls coming my way, because you know
how the industry is, he's one thing worked.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
They send everybody work.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Yeah, here's my daughter, right, And so that got us
to twenty where like bull Now we were working with Cardi
B and Gus of what we're crushing stuff with the
City girls, and I forget about the cards and then
take money comes out of that or whatever. Twenty But
that's all the success is happening when I'm when we
(33:11):
meet whatever it is, it's helping others. But then on
the personal side, I can't tour and it's hurt, like
on our album was getting affected. So that was a
that's what the depression came in. And that's why I
started helping others. Because's why I learned in twenty fourteen
with my boy Graham, you help, somebody's gonna help me.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It did.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah, board I even did Quinn Niger that year. Yeah,
on Butterflies Part.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Two, that was great.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
That was number one.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Yeah, bringing black women's success, that's all we're doing woman's success.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Do you have to take a consideration when you know
people don't like each other, like this person, even though
you have nothing to do with it, you do have.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Something to do with it, but you walk in the room. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I was just gonna say. I think that was also
the reason why we were able to have so much success,
because we were able to manage all the different personalities
and not get them going. If anything, we brought unity
to that situation and collaboration to that situation. We didn't
bring any division. That's our whole spirit is coming together.
There's obviously a better you know, depending on how things
When we would have loved to have had more collaboration,
(34:15):
but generally like it was love, you know what I'm saying.
Like even like with Lakey, I remember when Lakia we
got Lakia and Flow on a song together too, Like
there's there's a lot of songs like it can be fostered.
It's all about the stewardship. Like these relationships are brought
in controversy because that also generates a thing, you know,
(34:36):
like it brings money and other kind of money, not
the music money, but other things. So people benefit from
that and that's why that lives.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
And and you got to know how to keep it
in your pants. Oh that's the biggest I'm trying to
tell you. The power of keeping it in your pants
is if you, honestly, if we could give you a
spiderwab of all the value that we genuinely been able
to give to women in music is just keeping at
women in music, because.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
That's really our superpower, or at least for the past five.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Years, it is sixty to seventy percent of that power
and the opportunity comes from like, first of all, you
feel safe. When you feel safe, you feel vulnerable. And
the other side of vulnerability is a wall. That's all
the hits are.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, the other side of the wall.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
No.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I love that you said that. I remember certain women
artists who have discussed, like they'll talk specifically about men
that they felt safe in the studio with and they
felt respected by. And that's always stood out to me
when women have said, oh, I was in the studio
with Jay Cole and he was so like made me
feel so comfortable and so respected. And when you hear
(35:43):
things like that, it makes you have a whole other
level of like, Okay, that's so dope, because we've also
heard a lot of stories about when things have gone left. Yeah,
you know, and some of those stories will never be
told publicly here, and it's traumatizing, right.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Got left are right fucking hand?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, for sure, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Well, listen, I love to see it, and I know
you guys have a lot going on, you know, just
be visiting. Also, Trinidad James, you did the Freshman double
XL cover that in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Amazing. What a cover, What a cover.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Looking back at that because I was looking at some
of the people that were on that cover.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Travis Scott, Joey, badass.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Schoolboy c Is he right, Keith, I'm.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
So yeah, he was locked up. He couldn't be there
in person. Yep logic. And don't forget about the girl though.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
It's a girl, Angel Hayes.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
She's a dope model. Now if anybody cares, yeah, like
she's dope. I liked Angel. Well, let me say this.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I learned so much about women for working with women
these last five years, and I wish I knew it
when I met Angel, because I didn't give her the
grace that I know how to give her.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And we're cool now, but I just thought that she
was a bitch.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
And I can say this not because she's so not
that she just went through traumatic ass shit and us
as man, we don't have no goddamn understanding how to
deal with traumatic as ship because we don't be going
through nothing.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We don't get raped. We do. But you know what
I'm saying, Like it's the.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
Statistic of a woman going through with the cover with
somebody just taking your freedom compared to a man. People
think twice about taking a man's freedom unless we in
prison per se, you know, so it's just different.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
One. She was acting like she's.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Just nobody had no nobody had no love for her,
and like, of course it made her. She was snappy
with everybody, but of course ain't. Nobody was showing it
no love how whatever type. But we didn't know, like
look at the crew of guys there. Those are men's men.
If you think about how we're thinking, right, they come
from TDE and here and there and there.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
And all these type of things.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
It's like nobody was disrespecting her or nothing, however, because
she also respect Yeah, it wasn't like friendly, like how
it could have been compared to like how we are
better with I understanding our emotions because we've kind of
like had to pay attention to it because the Internet
is showing us like.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
We got you better.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
What was there ever a time that you felt like
you were so successful and then people turn their backs
on you, like people that you was cool with that
you try to reach out to, or do you feel
like it always was kind of even for you when it.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Came to nice. It happened, man, it happened.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
I went through a situation in New York where I
said something. Yeah, you know, we went through that moment,
and like, you know, that all triggered into my depression
coming into the following year. I think the statement and
the virality and negativity of it happened in the end
of twenty thirteen, but it carried into twenty fourteen, and
that's like it triggered my depression. What triggered the depression.
(38:39):
It's crazy you asked, that is because certain people or
companies turn their back on me in New York City,
And I was like, damn, it hurt because for me
it was such an honor or. It is actually because
we're in such a great place now. It is such
an honor to be respected in New York. I'm Atlanta
all day. I'm an Atown nigga show, don't get a mistaken.
(39:01):
But I also grew up here. I wasn't born in America.
I was born in Triny And I lived mad places
before I lived in New York, before I lived in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah, New York got a lot of training people mad.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
My family is here like all over Brooklyn, whatever, you
know what I'm saying, queens, whatever, and so it's like, Nah,
it's like when the respect was so high, like when
you get a certain type of respect in New York,
like being that girl in New York and being that
girl in other places.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Don't hit the same. I don't care where are you from.
It just don't hit the same.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
Like you can have seven trillion dollars in Detroit, you
don't hit like having one million in New York.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
It's just a different type of thing. And so I
said that to say, like it really hurt me that
people did. But what.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
And that's God but he can't but he but I
ran into May. It's so crazy and it was cool.
I ended up startling him for a shot with the
you know what I'm saying, like, that's not something that
never made the camera. Yeah, because it's like until something
happens in person, right, until you actually do something in
my face to me or me to you, everything is
kind of hearsay, a rumor or a lie.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
That's just the.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Truth of it before you styled him or was it just.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Yeah, we know it's two separate things. It wasn't even
that's how much we had grown. We ran and teaches
some mother, We ran into each other on some ship
where it could have went down, but it didn't because
that's just not where it ever was.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
He's different, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
And this is years ago, but you know, I mean,
the the maino now is a whole different set of man.
You know, however, but that's I mean, I think it's
anybody his age. All those guys are different, Like you
know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, like that's growth, that's growth.
Like this ship don't get no good retirement plan. So
(40:46):
now we are structuring. I looked at Charlemagne, yourself, everybody,
I would I look at y'all's flaws too, And back
then it's things that Charllemagne could have did better by
certain people, by me, like just the that he handled
it or whatever. But we forget that people go through
personal things and we bring it to our jobs and
(41:06):
it's human to flaw. And I think that because therapy
and counseling and spiritual spiritualism has become such a thing,
we see new manos, new fabulouses and everybody, everybody who
got a mic now is a new person because talking
is different than screaming, yelling, rapping.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Oh yeah, and there's a different type of piece that
comes with also knowing that you are multi faceted, multi skill,
multi hype in it, and there's so many things you
could be doing and so many different streams coming in.
And I think that positive outlook on things brings that
positive energy to you.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
Not everybody trying to get you or oh, I don't
know what angela about today or what you know what
you're gonna say.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
It's like come home, we say, we drink water and
my my business.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
That part right right right right up yourself.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Are we gonna do this Soca album to no?
Speaker 5 (42:03):
So the Soca album I'm gonna started in twenty twenty seven,
I've been I put my I have a cousin.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
His name is DJ Chang. He lives in Triny. He's
living Triny his whole life.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
I really want to get him a visa so he
can come to America and DJ he'll bust it down crazy,
especially in New York. But I made him my A
and R actually a couple of days ago for the
Soca album because he's he's on boots on the ground
every day, Like right now he's telling me about like
steam like that's a stype of rhythm and trinny that's
going crazy with the youths. It's like kind of like
with the Wii n and the sexy raids of Triny,
(42:34):
Like that's what type of beats.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Like a Lady Lava, Okay, you know what, she's so good.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
She's so good. She's one of my favorites actually right now.
Of course, like if she wasn't, then you know it's.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Rigged off top.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
But yeah, so like you know, steam and steam Zest
Triny Bid. Like when I was in trienty, Triny Bod
was just starting with like Swanee and Gelano and Trinity
I Killer and people like that.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
But now Triny bad.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
As birthed you got Zess with zess was to me,
I thought it was just like having a bunch of
gold on but now Zess is a rhythm. And now
they got Steamed, which is another rhythm. And I'm like, yo,
it's elevating so much. So I got I made him
my so keep me in the loops.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
You know about all this?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, I have not.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
Have you been to Iowa?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
No? I have not.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Okay, you guys need a documents.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
You got to do a little I like that.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
That's and they were like me and was crazy, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
I love to see that when we do the content.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And then telling me you guys got to go. But
I appreciate you all for being here today. This was
a great conversation. The music is fun, the visuals are amazing,
you know. Congratulations to both of you. I love seeing
the link up and it feels very authentic.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Stress.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yes,
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Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com