Mick Jenkins Reflects On A Decade Of 'The Water[s]', Lyrics, Politics, Album Features + More
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Up with Angela. Yeah, and this is a blessing. We
had Mick Jenkins in the building. I'm blessed to be
here and the Famili's here. We love it. Yes always,
I saw you guys. Were you and your wife were
in Saint Lucia.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yeah, that was where we took our honeymoon. Oh okay,
well we got married in COVID, but it was COVID.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah, no honeymoon there.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah. We got to have a bigger celebration last year
with all our family and friends, and then we went
to Saint Lucia.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
What was the actual wedding like during COVID.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Nine people it was? It was COVID, Like, you know,
I think it made it more special for us. You know,
we went from I think like one hundred and fifty
people down at nine people, just close family and friends.
I actually ended up me and my shout out Samantha
and DJ. We had it in their backyard. They have
a really beautiful backyard with a lake and they helped
(00:52):
me build the awning that we walked under. It was
really nice, really beautiful, really nice, really intimate.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So I like that that's a good time because you
know that COVID could make a breakup relationship or your pockets.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We saved a lot of money doing it like that,
so that worked out in the long run for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, Listen, anniversaries, big things happening. So obviously we know
The Waters ten years. How does it feel people always
talk about still to this day, how that's a classic
project that you had.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I'm honored. I'm honored that people feel like it's classic.
I was having this conversation the other day. For me,
it's not. The Waters is not a bigger deal to
me as it is to my fans, And I think
simply I tell people I made a project when I
was twenty one years old. I'm thirty three. However much
you love it, it's not how much I would love it,
you know what I'm saying. It's something that I made
when I was very much a kid. You know, I
(01:45):
had a different understanding about life and the things that
I was talking about that I do now. But this
tenure and the reversary is like affirming how much it
means to people. You know. I think it's not a
small thing to have a body of music, or even
any art that captures the attention of a generation, a
group of people. You know what I'm saying. Like I
(02:06):
look at the comments on my Instagram when I posted
the ten year anniversary, people like, man, it's helped me
through high school. Man, it's helped me through great school, man.
And it's like that's when I get soft in my heart, like, dang,
this really touched that many people, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And it's really I think a lot of the solo
tracks on that album that people really gravitated to the most. Also,
and that's not an easy thing. Usually people are like,
who's on it? Who's the guest appearance?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Right? Right? And I think that gives me value for myself.
I think it's a lot of things in a hip
hop industry where you can suckond guess yourself and you say,
am I that good? Am I? But to really have
so many people affirm what this project's done for them,
how long they've been listening, where it then took them
in their lives, like I said in my comments, to
be able to read through that, man, this is really
(02:46):
special for me and again for myself and a lot
of my contemporaries. This is my value. Right, I'm still here.
I'm still here ten years later, I'm still touching people's lives.
I'm still affecting people's lives with this music. I'm still
able to sell out shows with this music ten years later.
So I be feeling like, man, for all the lists
I ain't getting put on for all the Yeah, you know,
(03:06):
ten years in it's not a light thing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So Ye're right about that, because they do be putting
out all these lists. I was telling un Beat that
when he was here the other day. You know, he
loves a list, and so I saw like Complex put
out the top fifty Atlanta rappers. They could do that
in Chicago too.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I mean, in general, I think, yeah, the idea of
a hierarchy or a ranking makes sense. I'm a competitor,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, we know, but when you get.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Left off for whatever reasons, I mean, it's a lot
of artists that came to affect you in a major way.
And so a lot of conversations that I've had with
like Sobbis you know and No Name and people like myself,
it is like, man, look at what we're doing. Though.
You know, it's a lot of people on those lists
who don't have six seven eight albums, who are not
in it ten twelve, thirteen years later, you understand what
I'm saying. And so I think there's a lot of
(03:55):
value in the fact that me and my fans are
still having that conversation, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, and those are loyal hardcore fans too, by the way,
because I mean, you have this residency here that's sold out,
so people can't even get tickets crazy at the Blue
Note celebrating the tenure anniversary of the Waters And that's
a testament to knowing that no matter what, there's people
that are going to come out to see and support.
And I saw when quest Love what's talking about quality music,
and he definitely named you as somebody who he feels
(04:23):
like it's overlooked amongst others. And sometimes those people who
don't get the accolades are the ones that are definitely
they can tend to be the most talented.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I appreciate that, man, the quest Love thing, that's the
kind of stuff that I was gonna say a metaphor,
but that sent me around my house. You know what
I'm saying, I'm jumping up and down.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Like Chris Love.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You know my music. You know what I'm saying. That's
somebody that I grew up idolizing, and you know, the
entire Roots band like that, that's the inspiration for me
that informs my music today.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So yeah, because I feel like black Thought don't get
also the credit as a lyricist.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
That is a great example. Yeah, the Roots has a
whole Black thought especially but when I know this right,
when I know that, or even I just saw a
black thought common uh somebody else. They was all freestyling
together that was on the internet somewhere else, and it's that.
It's the camaraderie from the niggas who do get that,
(05:18):
niggas who are on the list, you know what I'm saying,
those people who do have a certain respect when they
see you, when it's all love. When more deaths see
me and say oh the water, I mean.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah seen because he got mad. I called him most dead.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yes, my fault legend, my fault legend. When you see
me and say what's up, Waters, I'm like, that's the
validation I need.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And you know his legacy. You see, his daughter has
a huge song going crazy and I love that shit.
I was like, she got his whole face.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, I didn't see it at first. Then when I
saw him, I was like, oh, yeah, how could I
not see that?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
You know? And even just thinking about like somebody say,
David Bandit, I remember him talking about his lyrics and
then feeling like he had to dumb it down a
little in order to get that mainstream audience. Was that
something that you ever were like, you know what I'm
gonna put out? I'm just curious and y'all that's valid.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That's valid. It's something that I talk about with a
few of my friends all the time. I think, yes,
quite literally yesterday were in the hotel room and making
up silly songs. You know what I'm saying. My wife
can attest I'll make a song out of anything I'm
not gonna do right now. I'm not gonna do it
right now, I'm not. But what I'm saying is we
(06:24):
do that, and then we'll stop and say, yo, that
could really be a hit.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Could And then it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Comes the question of like would you do that? Like
would I do that? And then if the answer is yes,
it becomes why. And when the answer is because I
know it to be a hit, because I know it'll
make me some money, because I know it to go
crazy over there. If that's my only reason, it's very
hard for me to commit. I made a silly song.
(06:49):
I went shout out super I went to his house.
He had a beat going that I could hear from outside.
I come inside. He's like, what you been doing? Bro's
what you got on? I'm listening to the beat. I'm like,
I've been arguing with my wife. Nigga. Oh damn, we
freestot a whole song. It was fired and he was like,
you want to record it? I was like, nah, something
(07:10):
like that. You know what I'm saying, like, yeah, we're good. Now.
I wouldn't put something like that out. But we sit
there and they have a conversation about bro that would
really Rocky changed his work. And then that comes into
place and.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You get a reference track and let me get this
to somebody who this would be right for.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
That becomes a viable for sure. But for me, my
point was, I think there's just a certain integrity in
me that even sometimes I get frustrated about. Like a nigga,
you know, you could go crazy with it, but that's
just not what I do. Yeah, yeah, that's just not
what I do. So if what I do goes mainstream,
that'd be great.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
But and you know what that I feel like there's
also songs that I really like and it may not
have a lot of depth to it, but it could
be for a moment, yeah what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So that's what I'm saying. I imagine that if I
took a lot of my energy that I do to
make these highly conceptual records and was like, let me
just do.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
This, no doubt that fans might be disappointed. That's the
other thing to be disappointed, Okay, And so look that
brings us to you know, let's fast forward ten years, well,
nine years after that, the Patience. You put that out,
So the patients talk to me even about that title,
because there's a lot of patients that comes into play
when it's like, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
The Patients. The title came from where I was at
in my career. With The Patient's album, I felt like
I was finally in control.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I went out and got the deal that I wanted
on the terms that I wanted, and really I basically
set the terms and was like, whoever's going to accept
that is where I'm signing it.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh that's a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah. Yeah. And so at that point, even before that,
I had got out of what I thought was a
terrible deal, what a terrible situation. I learned a lot
and I had this newfound perspective. So now I approached
going out and getting a new deal this way. I
got that, and then they went above and beyond BMG,
went above and beyond what I asked and needed. So
when it came time for me to come down to
the title, I was just like, what is this? What
(08:58):
is this music? What is this body of work? And like, man,
this is the moment I've been waiting for. This is
the space I've been waiting for. I think a lot
of people would be surprised to hear. Yeah, ten years in,
five projects in and the patience is the first time
I got to do what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And you said all of that on MAP I listened
to that much for that song where you really just talked,
and so even that part was that something I have
to assume that you just were talking and it made it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You're correct, Yeah, A lot of that is that's how
I create, you know, the ethos of the song. I mean,
it's something that I've been thinking about. I tell people
all the time. Just because the song came out today,
doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it for the last
three months, and so my while I'm recording that, I
just go straight into talking at the end of the song.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
The first time, yeah, and so discuss like how you
were feeling, and just for people who maybe they didn't
catch it or what you were saying on Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I just feel like right now, even for my fans
who don't have a clear understanding, right now for me
is the best place I've ever been in my life
and the best place I've been for my career. I'm
in full control over what I do. I'm in full
control over how my music sounds. I mean, I'm in
full control of understanding how my business should work. A
lot of times as a new artist, you get told, hey,
(10:11):
you should do this this way, you should do this
this way, and you do because you don't know any better,
and when you do know better, you realize, like, well
that's a way, it's not the best way. You feel
me like, so now I haven't understanding of how to
run my business from my standards, that feels like the
best way. And so mop is me saying, Man, I'm
now ready to clean this thing up. You know what
I'm saying I'm now ready to get out there and
(10:32):
show y'all the work I've been doing, show y'all the
things that I've learned, and show y'all that I know
how to attack this industry and delivering my music to
my fans. And a lot of that just takes time.
A lot of that takes trial and error. A lot
of that takes patients waiting on the person who's going
to put the bug in Angeloyee's ar ear to actually
invite me to the interview. Right. I think a lot
(10:55):
of times when I talk about patients, I'm like, you
hit a point where there's work that needs to be
done that you can't do.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I was feeling like maybe there was this mystique about
you and you were like I'm not doing much you know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh no, not at all, not at all. I even
said to her, I was like, I think they've been
trying to do this for a few months, but we
was on tour the first time. Yeah. Like, but even
to that point, right, Sometimes you're waiting on this person
to hear you that is going to move your thing forward.
Sometimes you're waiting on this person to say your name
in this room that you're not in and no matter
(11:27):
what you do, your actions won't be the thing that
moves you forward at this point in your journey, you know.
And so that's something that I was spotlighting on that
as well. And that's what the idea of patience is
for I was doing everything I could for a good
eight nine years. You know. It was something that had
to happen in that ninth year that I couldn't control.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And you know it was Yeah, you said you talked
about the deal that you were in that you really
wanted to get out of, and you also couldn't put
out You didn't want to put out certain music while
you're locked into a deal that you don't want to
be in. How hard that being an artist and knowing that, like, Okay,
I'm not going above and beyond it, going up to
the potential that I know. I have that my fans
(12:07):
because people still love the music and it still was great,
but it wasn't what you wanted to do necessarily because
you're like, I'm not giving them this.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
It's a crazy position to be in, and I whenever
I tell people about it, I'm like, apply it to
whatever you do. It's not an art thing. It's a
comfortability thing like, if you're not happy, whatever you do,
you're probably not going to perform your best. If you're
not at peace, you're probably not going to perform your best.
And as artists, people love to be like, oh, a
tortured soul makes great art, and they do because they
(12:37):
need to express that too. But man, y'all don't know
how much y'all don't know how much a happy soul
makes God great music.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Just happy, right, yeah, yeah, just be happy for my.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Exactly, exactly, And so for me, that's what that's what
that is. It was like, all right, I'm in a
terrible situation, and while I've served the points of my deal,
I can't really drop anything new without it going back
to what I haven't recouped. Right, So, at no point
when I'm understanding, Oh, I'm understanding, and people who don't
(13:09):
have my best I'm in business with people don't have
my best interest in heart, I'm in business with people
who don't necessarily care about my work and about me
the way I do. Okay, understood, what do I have
left to do for them? One? Two, three? Y'all gotta
do these three things? Okay, I'm gonna do these three
things if I do anything else that is like this
grand express, Oh, it's so amazing. This is just y'all
(13:30):
taking a piece of that, right, And I don't mind
y'all taking a piece of that if we are working
in good faith as business partners. But when we not,
I'm not going to do anything extra for you. Why
would I?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right? And is that something It's hard because do you
want people to know that as you're listening to the
music or is it something that you're like, let me
just get through this.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I want people to know, OK. But at the same time,
I don't want to be a nigga that's screaming look
what they're doing to me, y'all. That's why y'all not
getting what y'all want, because look what they're doing. Because
even when you do that, it's not received.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, they don't care.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I ain't never listen to any artists tell me that.
I never investigated, Like, I just moved on to what
else I wanted to listen to. So it's just like, yeah,
you don't want to be that either, put your head
down and you just try to get through it, you
know what I'm saying, Which to your question, it sucks
because while you're putting your head down trying to get
through it. People are assuming why the music ain't come
(14:22):
out in a year and a half, why this project
sounds this way, why he only did this or that
or this or that. And I'm sure as a fan,
I take part in the same thing when I'm wondering
why Kendrick can't drop for five years? You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Let me take you Twitter and weighing in on things
that a whole different reality. They hated that people could
say the same thing you say, But let make Jenkins
come on here and talk about, Oh man, why did
Jay Cole drop out of the back?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Don't even get me on that. That's something that again,
it's not just some art thing. It's not an art thing.
It's not a music thing. People who do the thing
have the most leeway to speak about the thing.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Right, if you play sports, you probably could speak to
that more than I could because I just watch you
work in radio. I could speak about radio all that
you be here, you know the background. I can only
talk about what I see, you know what I'm saying.
So as a rapper, it'd be crazy when people feel
like I saw a lot of people not just me.
Y'all just want Cloud. Y'all just want Cloud. It's like, Bro,
(15:24):
this is some historic shit happen.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah it is, of course.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I want to talk about you know what I'm saying,
Like this don't happen every year.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Things played out. People were like j Co was smart
for dropping out of the battle because clearly somebody told
him something or for whatever reason he and we don't
know what those.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I personally feel he was very smart.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I just didn't in retrospect. I think at the time
it was like.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I didn't have a problem with him dropping out. I
just didn't understand the apology. Right, that was it for me.
I was like, I don't think he did anything where
he needs to apologize.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah that was that serious.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, that was it for me. I would get out
the white too. Yeah, yeah, I just didn't get the apology.
But you know, to each his own.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And you know, as you coming up in Chicago, right
and you know musically Chicago is kind of like where
we know Mick Jenkins from. What do you think about say,
Kanye and everything with his legacy and everything that's been
going on with him, Because I know in Chicago they
go hard for some Kanye West, but there's a lot
of things surrounding him now. We see him pulling up
to Trump rallies, we see comments that he's made, but
(16:26):
it doesn't take away from people are like, you know,
he's one of my favorite artists.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
For me, Kanye has been one of my favorite artists
for a long time. But previous to a lot of
the antics that people have in question, I wasn't rocking
with Kanye. People are always surprised to find out. But
my Beautiful Dark Twist Afinity was probably the last time
that I was rocking with Kanyek for me, because eighty
percent of the way that I digest music is creation,
(16:52):
so that last twenty percent of listening to music for
like Refuge, it's got to be things that I want
to hear, things that I want to digest. My Beautiful
Dark twis in Fantasy was the last time that I
wanted to digest Kanye's music. That was an amazing album.
The content is not something that I need when I
go to Refuge for my music, you know what I'm saying.
(17:13):
It's not so for me. I stopped being as much
of a fan as I was Kanye around that time,
and then the things that would happen in the following
years weren't so surprising to me because I feel like,
I truly feel like if you look back through Kanye's lyrics,
a lot of who he is as a person, arrogant,
not really open to a lot of other people's opinions,
(17:35):
very like, these are the ways that he's been for
a very long time. These are the ways that he
said he was going to be for a very long time.
He told y'all eight years ago, you can't tell him nothing.
Y'all thought that was just a hot chorus. He was
dead serious, you know what I'm saying. So for me,
a lot of this isn't as surprising as it is
for a lot of other people. It's very confusing. It's
(17:56):
very confusing. But I mean, I stopped being as much
of a fan quite a long time ago, and I
give everybody their space to go through they thing, you
know what I'm saying. So that's how I feel about you.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And now you don't live in Chicago anymore, So how
is that for you?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
The move to la was for work. It's been great.
I've been there for three years. I just was talking
to somebody else. So I've been to LA. Been in
New York, Chicago, a lot of different creative hubs for working.
I don't link up with more people anywhere than in
LA to really get work done.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I can see that to.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Actually, I was telling them, I was like, I love
New York. I get a lot of work done in
New York, but more than LA, I have a lot
of conversations about work that don't end up with us working.
You know what I'm saying. I have way more conversations
about the work we want to get done, and we
actually get it done out there.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
You know what I'm saying, go to the studio.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And so after three years, though, I feel like again
some of the lessons that I learned, some of the
things that I learned being with this new life, understanding
how the music industry is rapidly changing, I'm about to
go back home. I'm about to go Everything that I'm
about to do next for these next teen years in
my career, it needs to be done in Chicago. Okay,
if I do it in LA, I'm just anothering that
(19:14):
could doing it in LA. If I do it in Chicago,
I'm building something that's the city needs.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And you know, the DNC is there the Democratic National Convention.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Asible I've heard.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I've heard so when we dove into things like that
and you see everything that's going on in the world
and things that are happening in Chicago, because they're using
that now as like everything that's wrong, they'll be like, oh,
you can see now going to the DNC, and you know,
and for me as a person that I've been to
Chicago a lot, I love Chicago, you know, yeah, obviously,
but I like literally was there the day that I
(19:43):
left the Breakfast Club. I went to Chicago straight from
the show and stayed out and went to clubs until
like four in the morning.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Oh so you came to Chicago to get your mind right?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, I went there and celebrated, you know, shout out
to all my peoples in Chicago. But you know, I'm
just wondering what you think when it comes to Kamala
Harris running for president. People have a lot of things
to say about that. The fact that Donald Trump is
running even though he's a convicted feeling now and he's
said a lot of negative things, but it feels like
he's still getting support from a lot of rappers and
(20:14):
a lot of artists. So I want to know your
take on everything that's happening right now with politics, what
you think when you're looking at the news and seeing things,
and where you get your information from.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'll start with Trump. I think rappers supporting Trump is weird.
I just assume it's about money most of the time.
I really don't know. I assume either they have some
information like a Kanye, you must have some information that
lets you know that this guy is going to do
better for your money than the other person. That's what
I assume it must be. But I have no idea
super weird. I think, just like Kanye, nothing that America
(20:57):
does really surprises me anymore. You know, I think we've
had more than enough examples that the people in office,
no matter what'side they're on, don't really care about the
everyday American. We have examples from the history of how
these people vote in office to know where their platforms stand.
(21:18):
We have Kamala Harris's history. We know what side of
the line she's been on throughout her career. You know
what I'm saying, as a as a police officer, as
a she wasn't just a police officer, she was a
day Yeah. Yeah, So I feel like I mean, I
don't have to say how I feel. There's just a
(21:40):
lot of evidence that huge parts of this are dishonesty.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I don't think anybody looks as politics as honesty.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
But which which is crazy though, because these are the
officials that are like running the country. And I think
if the idea is that dishonesty is ingrained into it,
is it? What does it matter? What I think? You know?
What does matter? What you think?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
You know what I'm saying like people who get into
politics thinking they could change things and then realize how
hard that you can, because it's like a whole system
of like, okay, you do this, and it's a lot
of like bartering, like do this, but you do this,
and then it turns into something that is not just
about what's best for people.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
My opinion is that the system as it was created
is flawless and it's doing all the things that is
supposed to do. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Chaosity, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I watched the dismantling of Twitter and everybody was so
confused about what he was doing. I was just like,
I'm not do you remember how useful Twitter was when
Ferguson was going on? Right, do you remember that they
were lying to us on TV, and you were finding
that they were lying to us on TV because of
the information you were getting on Twitter. That cannot happen anymore.
(22:52):
It can't happen anymore. It would be ridiculously unreliable information
coming from Twitter. Now, yeah, yep, there's no blue check marks.
You can pay for them. There was news publications that
had to be verified. You're worried about personal verification. News
publications had to be verified. The people that you were
(23:13):
getting honest information from had to be verified, and then
there was a problem if you were just on Twitter line.
That's not a real thing anymore. It's not an alternative
place where we can go get instant information and it
be the truth. So that's what I see when I
see Twitter get dismantled like that. It's like, well, for
(23:33):
all the fun we were having, that doesn't matter. This
was a place where real information was traveling very fast,
and it cannot do that effectively anymore. And so when
you asked me a question like that, it's like where
you want me to start, Like, what do I think?
I think it's bus. I think it's easy to see
it's bus and I think the politicians job is to
make us feel like it's not. And I don't think
(23:55):
people want to hear that from me.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, I mean, you know what I've had to realizes
that I do have to be as involved as I
possibly can to make things happen and to understand how
the system works, so you can, because what I love
is people who change policy and people who actually go
in there with a plan and then they can go
and f.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Shout out my boy Stevie Vallaz in Chicago doing a
lot to change policy. He focuses on prison inmates who
are have gotten out and are being blocked from their
ability to vote, or prison inmates who are still in
jail or prison and they have not been convicted yet,
so that they still have the opportunity to vote even
though a conviction hasn't been passed on them. That's the
(24:34):
home meet. That's one of my good friends. And you're right.
Being as involved as possible knowing about people like that
in organizations like that, so we can actually affect legislation
is the only.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Way because change is slow when it comes to politics,
but it does happen. We've seen a lot of different
you know, things go through even we talk about like
student loan reform, and people thought that would never happen.
I was one of those people, right, But a lot
of people did get their loans forgetting and they're working
on it. But it's unfortunate league keeps on getting black.
So many different things that go on. And you know
what I want to ask you, since you talked about
(25:05):
money and how that can affect how people maybe decide
who they want to be in office, you know, what's
your relationship when it comes to money? Because you have
a song like Japanese right where you talk about vices
and people chasing after money on the patients. So what
is your personal relationship when it comes to money finances,
what you spend your money on. I know you like
(25:27):
nice things, you know, but it feels like you know,
you are also aware of what it is not to
want to come to compromise your art for money.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Which foremost for me is making sure a constant evaluation
of myself that I don't love money, that I'm not
putting money above anything really in my life. Like I think,
I think we hear a lot of people talking about
how much they love money. And for anybody that's confused,
if you you know I love God. I'm a Christian.
(25:59):
I believe in about the love of money is the
root of all evil. Money yourself isn't the root of
all evil. I see people confuse this all the time.
Money the love of money is the root of all evil.
And I just see people talking about how much they
love money all the time, and it's kind of crazy
to me. So that's where I start, is evaluating myself
in that way. But my general perspective about money is access.
(26:21):
I don't praise money. I don't hold money too high.
It's access. Ninety percent of things you want in this
world you can get it with some money, right period,
So you should have a healthy respect for that. That's
how I.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Feel, like, you know what I'm saying Wednesday. So I
always think about the way that I was raised, like
not having a lot of money when I was younger,
and you know, really living like not even check to check.
To get into a point where I'm like, okay, now
I was able to buy a house and then invest
in different things, but I still never feel comfortable, like
you always feel like at some point it could be
all gone. I always think that.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
I think for myself, I try to make sure that
you know, I pay ten percent of times. I try
to make sure that I got three months, four months
saved up, you know what I'm saying. And then from
that point, that's my for my money. God, that's your life,
that's your defense. That's what he said. It's like, you
got you gotta have three months set up. You want
your life insurance, you want your defense. And then on
an offensive tip, like how I spend my money as
(27:17):
long as everything is taken care of, you know, I
try to be generous. I try to make sure that
we're having a fun life, you know what I'm saying, Like,
that's as far as money goes. That's probably as much
as I think about it. We want to buy a house,
all right, let's make a plan and let's stick to
the plan. Cool. We want to prepare for having kids,
all right, let's make a plan and stick to the plan. Cool.
That becomes bills, That becomes responsibility. Once my responsibilities are
(27:41):
taken care of, whatever I got, whatever extra we're just
trying to have a good life. We're just trying to
have fun. I don't ever like work too hard for
the money or or oh yeah, yeah, let's let's get
that last for I'll turn down shows, I'll turn down
things that I don't want to do, and money is
never the only reason why I'm gonna go do something.
And so I think that's the best way I can
(28:01):
answer your question, because even with this part, it's just
like outside of planning, and I don't really think about
money too much. I gotta be trying to do something,
you know what I'm saying. Before I came to New York,
I was like, all right, we gotta pay for sessions
for practice. Wife. You're gonna want to do a little
shop and you know what I'm saying, we gotta eat.
I gotta pay for everybody ubers. I probably need this much.
(28:22):
Outside of that, I ain't really think you know what
I'm saying. That's the way that I think about money,
But I don't really think.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
About it too much other than that, Why was that
marriage so important for you?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Why was marriage important for it?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So some people will tell you that they don't think
that marriage. You know, we could be together. Some people
will be together twenty years and then end up getting married.
Why did you say okay? Now?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
First, I was raised that way. The idea of marriage
was always an end goal for me. Beyond that. I
think I'm a person that needs somebody. I've told my
wife that a lot. I was like, I don't think
I would have in life. I think I just needed
a partner from a young age, from high school age,
from the that I started dating. I feel like I
was always It wasn't very too long being single before
(29:04):
I was in another relationship because I feel like I
need somebody, a partner to work with. We've been together
for ten years, yeah, ten years. We've been married for
four this year. My first time talking to her was
when I first got signed and I'm skating around New York.
She's in New Orleans, just talking to her on the
phone every night. You know. That ended up being three
(29:27):
She was still in school. So we're on the phone
for like three months, just loving being on the phone
five six hours at a time. So for me, very early,
I knew, oh yeah, this is a type of person
I could be with forever.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That's the best those beginnings. Yeah, yeah, just say we
were talking to the sun came up to just be
on the phone all night long, fall asleep on the.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Phone, and what three years in four years? In what
was it when I propose to four years yeah, I
just you know, we have been through a lot, and
in a sense of trying to uttering myself and trying
to do better by her, I purposed in my mind
(30:04):
at the time, I was like, all right, what are
you doing? Do you want to be with this woman?
Do you want to be with her forever? What are
you doing that shows her that? And what are you
going to do that you're not doing to make that
a reality? So that was shortly before I post proposed
to her, and for me, it was just evaluation. We've
been together this long, you're trying to do this. What
is the end goal here? You know what I'm saying like,
(30:26):
And once I figured that out, then it was all right,
make sure that she on the same page of me,
and if she on the same page of me what
she was, it was like, all right, in what we're doing,
let's do it. I knew long before I proposed to
her that that was the person that I want to
be with. I love long before I proposed her to
my partner, So it was just time.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
It seems like you hold yourself accountable just from everything
that we're talking about that there's periods of time and
be like, okay, what do I need to do.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
There's people, including my wife, who would say I don't
all the time. You yeah, yeah, I tried to try.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Guys say, now see, you're also going back to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I love it. Yeah, shout out South Africa. They are
my most voracious fans. They be on my comments, they
be on my YouTube, every social media. God, they be
on there. And I always know because I get up
early and the time difference. There's an influx of South
African comments and social media engagement at two, three, four
(31:25):
in the morning, so they be active. They are literally
top three. They go from one to two and three
all the time when we look of fans downloading, buying, purchasing, whatever.
So I love going out to South Africa. The first
time we went out there, we did a show and
then we were able to do a show twice the
size just off word of mouth two days later.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's huge.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
They love me out there.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So I love y'all right back, and I love it
there too.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, that's the camp right there, y'all. I love y'all too.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Was it life changing for you the first time that
you went to South Africa. The first time I went,
I was with my bunch of my friends came. They
were like, we're gonna come to since I got bucked
to do something, and literally like started crying as soon
as we landed.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Uh not that not that deep, but but no, but
there were moments where you just kind of sit back
and be like, wow, Like I am in Africa, you
know what I'm saying. And even I got some homies
in Ghana and Nigeria. I was like, no, not the
real Africa. Shout out David. Though you didn't go to
the real Africa. I'm like, I went. That's where I was,
you know what I'm saying. So, man, just seeing all
(32:26):
the black people being in a black country that is
a black country, you know what I'm saying. I'm sorry, continent,
but the idea of home motherland, all of those things
kind of start as an American start hitting you while
you're surrounded by all of this culture. Yeah, I think
about that a lot most of the times when I'm
overseas though, I have those kind of thoughts. I'm very
(32:48):
I mean, you should be aware of how the world
views America, good and bad, and so those are things
that are usually on my mind when I'm out the country.
So I'm still in the myriad of ways in South Africa.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Nice, that's so dope. Been there once and I'm dying
to go back. That's a long flight. It's a commitment.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, I'm used to traveling though.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So yeah, I have to be here, you know. But
I want to talk about this too. Now, let me
see if Mick Jenkins is being messy when you put
a song by Freddie Gibbs featuring Freddie Gibbs and then
Benny the Butcher right after. Yeah, now, is that something
you even realized when you did it?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh? I realized it.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Ok, you did it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I didn't know they were both going to give me
my verse. That was the issue. I had been chasing
Freddy for like a year and a half, seeing Freddie
out multiple times. He from Gary, so you know, basically
a Chicago nigga, all love. But every time I hit
him to do the record, no response, which is typical
in the industry. Niggas to sdap you up, chop it up,
(33:48):
smoke with you, but when you want to work, you
ain't getting no response patience. So exactly, so all right, cool,
Freddie not hitting me back. My label loves Benny. The
label want to get Bennie. I'm like, all right, go ahead,
get Bennie. Almost really, almost the same day, we get Bennie.
Two am that morning, Freddy sent me the verse just
out the blue, no no heads up, no nothing. I'm like,
(34:10):
damn this nigga sent the verse? All right? Cool? So
I'm like, damn, we really got a Freddie and a
Bennie verse.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Put him back to back, back to bad.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So I did that on purpose, but I just had
no way of knowing I was gonna get both of
them verses because Freddy wouldn't hit me back. You know better,
Freddy easy, you know what? And I'm gonna say it too,
because this is how I felt, you know, holler at me.
But I don't think Bennie knew what was going on.
I've done what Bennie, what I believe Bennie did, which
is paid for. I give you one of my out
(34:42):
of a ten, I give one of my sevens. I
give one of my sixties. You know what I'm saying,
because it's still gonna be fire. I don't think Bennie
knew that I was about to do what I was
about to do on that joint. So I give him
a pass because he ain't come with it for real?
You know Freddy versus better. I still like the verse.
Obviously it was on it was on the album, but
he ain't come. That wasn't Bennie's best.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
If you didn't like a verse, would you not put it?
Would you send it back? Would you not put it?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Like?
Speaker 1 (35:04):
What do you do when somebody sends you a verse
and it's not a different things.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Come into play? How much did I pay for it?
How much do I like the song? Do I feel
like you hurt in the song? Or do I feel
like you're helping the song? If you hurt in the song,
I really don't care.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I'll probably take you off, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And if you if I know you, I'll probably take
the song off. If I don't know you, I'm gonna
take you off, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
But if you pay for it, you can't be like
I need a different verse. This wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I've never done that, and when people have done that
to me, it never went well.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
So I think that's a fair thing to say, like,
you know, this don't really fit this song? Is there?
Can we work on something else? I think that is
a fair thing to do to Okay, when didn't go well,
does that mean you just didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Do it or he's Here's the thing. If you don't
know me and you're paying for a feature, in my mind,
you're paying for what I'm giving you. Okay, But if
we're in a studio working, you know, if we have
the at least that level.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of kmaradeo, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
We could We could do whatever you want. We a
in here right now, you know what I'm saying. But
when you hey, hey, I want one of these? Yeah,
I'm ordering it, you feel me like that's essentially what
you're doing. I'm gonna do this on my own time
and then I'm gonna send it to you. Bro, you're
going especially when I'm not bs A niggas right, I'm
rapping for you. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yes, you're not giving a person you already.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Had, now what I have done. Shout out grip. He's
from Atlanta. He sent it back, like, Bro, I'm rocking
with the verse, but this is twelve bars. I bought
a sixteen. I was like, you know what, You're right,
I ain't even try to short you. That was just
a good spot for me to stop. You know what
I'm saying, but you're right, I'm gonna do the other
(36:46):
four bars. I'll do that, but nah, redoing the verse?
All right?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, being that it took Freddy gives this long to
put to send you his verse, who else are other
other artists right now that you're like, okay waiting for
this verse to come in because I know you did
it a lot of songs for this project, and I
know you have another project on the way.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, what we'll talk about in a second. But are
there some verses out there that you're waiting to get back?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, Jia was the other person.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Okay, but I got it. Yeah, I know you were
happy with that one.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I've never really had big features on any of my.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Projects, I know, but this is These are all pretty
big ones on the album.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
And that's what I feel good about. It is just like, man,
when I did reach out, you know, everybody showed up.
Everybody was like, yeah, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Was it for a lack of you reaching out?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Absolutely? Yeah, it was absolutely It's a lack of me
reaching out. My competitiveness. The way I viewed the industry
at the time, it was just like, no, I'm doing everything,
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna
do it. And you know, the more I've gotten into
collaborating and respecting the collaboration process for what it is,
the more I've gotten into song creation and not just rapping,
you know what I'm saying. Really well, I used to
(37:58):
be like, Oh, I rap amazing, That's all I to do.
The more I've gotten into the artistry of what I do,
the more I do those things. But yeah, there was
I would say the first five years I wasn't even
trying to work with nobody else.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Right, it worked out for you, though.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I guess I was successiful, So I can't complain.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You know what I'm saying, A right to talk about
these next two projects that are on the way.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Well, for me, I'm in a space of, like I said,
I'm fully independent now. I said that before simply because
even though I was attached to a label or something,
I was doing everything myself. Me and my team were
doing everything ourselves. I am now in a position where
I'm not even attached to anybody else, and so for me,
this is the first time experiencing that. So I want
to see what it's like to drop some music. I
(38:38):
want to see what that what them residuals and what
them worldties look back look like when I get one
hundred percent, you know what I'm saying. So right now,
I didn't even focus on a super conceptual album. I'm
feel free, so I wanted to create like that. I've
been locking in with different producers and just making different sounds.
The first producer I locked in with. His name is Emil.
He's from London. Man, this guys are and he does
(39:00):
everything him and his you know, instrumentalist everything live and
so this shit feels good, it feels big. You feel it,
and you know what I'm there's some singing thing where
you can feel it in your chest while somebody singing.
I feel like that's what the music is like. You
know what I'm saying. You can really feel it in
your chest. I love it. I'm rapping at a high
level when I got a lot to say. I think
(39:22):
for me, this is like a what do they call
it when you're trying to get your doctorate, your dissertation?
Is that they just like a dissertation for me. For
like the last ten.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Years, I saw you retweet somebody that said that you
should do some dance.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Oh yeah, and that's another. That's like I said, I'm
trying to hear different markets, different sounds, different genres. I'm
on Kate, not a I'm on Disclosures album. I definitely
can make dance music, and so I'm doing that too
as well. Wow, I'm trying to lock in with Kate,
but I feel like I'm chasing him everywhere. Holler at me.
(39:57):
But I know some guys all day reset locking in
with a few different producers that I know can can
cater to that sound. I'm trying to do that as well.
My girl MBI Lyrics. We got a whole project finish.
Slime is my DJ. We got a low five project
finished not Goodness.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
You said you went off and running. You got out
of that deal and said, I'm depending. Let's do everything
I want to do. I've been building up.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
When you say, you know, when you're in that situation
and you don't like it, does it hurt you because
you're not showing people what you're not doing well now
that I'm not I'm like, now, niggas don't get to see.
This is what I look like when I'm operating at
one hundred percent. And so for me, it's not even
a lot. You know. For me, it's just me and
a meal locked in for two weeks and we got
like nine songs done and we chose five. You know
what I'm saying. Me and ABI locked in for a month,
(40:42):
we got ten songs. Me and Slime locked in for
two separate weeks at a time, we got fifteen songs,
and we're gonna narrow those down. This is how I work,
This is this is the space at which I can go.
This is the pace at which I can go. The
ideas are not running out, and even more than that,
I'm focused on on the world building of those ideas. Right,
So I'm not just about to drop a lot of music.
(41:03):
I'm about to drop music with ideas and videos and
world building and concepts and merch And then four months
later we're gonna give you another one.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
And then five months later we're gonna give you another one.
Because this is the space that I wish I could.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Move and doing everything you want to do.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Deals don't allow you to move like this. Labels don't
allow you to move like this, like the construct of
the industry don't really allow you to drop a project
and drop another one four months later. Young boy, dropped
the project, dropped his dropped the album I think last year,
dropped the project the month later, and then I read
a release from the label that that second project would
not be counted again.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
You know what I'm saying, trying to get out of.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
His can't do it stuff like that with it, and
so it feels really free and for me, it's really
fun to be able to come at it like that
for me right now.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Oh good, Well, I'm glad you look happy. I can
I see it only if talking about it.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I'm content. I'm content for sure.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
That's a great thing. So I'm happy for you, and
thank you so much for coming through and chopping it
up with me, because this is something that I felt like,
are we going to get Mike Jenkins up? I'm glad
we did, and I appreciate that. I know you have
sold out shows. I can't even say, you know, buy
your tickets because you can't.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Thank you, New York.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
But I'm sure you're gonna ask some more, right because
you got so much going on for at the.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
End of the year. We should have a few more
water shows, for sure. We got one in Minneapolis, we're
working on one in Nashville. We're working on one in Chicago.
La keeps saying something so we might do on there.
Just keep looking out if you're trying to catch my chickens.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
All right, perfect, well, thank you so much for coming through.
Appreciate it. You got to do like a water collab
or something like that, you know what.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
The Water's ten year anniversary. We had blue Note tonight,
and it's very crazy to me that I've been singing
about water for ten years and I can't not even
the sani. You know what I'm saying. I don't even
drink the sanny. I'm saying that's the bottom of the barrel.
I can't even get the Sanni to come holler at me.
You feel me like nobody. You know what I'm saying.
I can't even get a nameless water bottle to come
(42:55):
holler at me. It's crazy, man, drink more water.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Let's try to get this done. Please, all right, please,
Oh my gosh, it's way up, way up.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Okay,
Up with Angela. Yeah, and this is a blessing. We
had Mick Jenkins in the building. I'm blessed to be
here and the Famili's here. We love it. Yes always,
I saw you guys. Were you and your wife were
in Saint Lucia.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yeah, that was where we took our honeymoon. Oh okay,
well we got married in COVID, but it was COVID.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah, no honeymoon there.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah. We got to have a bigger celebration last year
with all our family and friends, and then we went
to Saint Lucia.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
What was the actual wedding like during COVID.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Nine people it was? It was COVID, Like, you know,
I think it made it more special for us. You know,
we went from I think like one hundred and fifty
people down at nine people, just close family and friends.
I actually ended up me and my shout out Samantha
and DJ. We had it in their backyard. They have
a really beautiful backyard with a lake and they helped
(00:52):
me build the awning that we walked under. It was
really nice, really beautiful, really nice, really intimate.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So I like that that's a good time because you
know that COVID could make a breakup relationship or your pockets.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We saved a lot of money doing it like that,
so that worked out in the long run for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, Listen, anniversaries, big things happening. So obviously we know
The Waters ten years. How does it feel people always
talk about still to this day, how that's a classic
project that you had.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I'm honored. I'm honored that people feel like it's classic.
I was having this conversation the other day. For me,
it's not. The Waters is not a bigger deal to
me as it is to my fans, And I think
simply I tell people I made a project when I
was twenty one years old. I'm thirty three. However much
you love it, it's not how much I would love it,
you know what I'm saying. It's something that I made
when I was very much a kid. You know, I
(01:45):
had a different understanding about life and the things that
I was talking about that I do now. But this
tenure and the reversary is like affirming how much it
means to people. You know. I think it's not a
small thing to have a body of music, or even
any art that captures the attention of a generation, a
group of people. You know what I'm saying. Like I
(02:06):
look at the comments on my Instagram when I posted
the ten year anniversary, people like, man, it's helped me
through high school. Man, it's helped me through great school, man.
And it's like that's when I get soft in my heart, like, dang,
this really touched that many people, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And it's really I think a lot of the solo
tracks on that album that people really gravitated to the most. Also,
and that's not an easy thing. Usually people are like,
who's on it? Who's the guest appearance?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Right? Right? And I think that gives me value for myself.
I think it's a lot of things in a hip
hop industry where you can suckond guess yourself and you say,
am I that good? Am I? But to really have
so many people affirm what this project's done for them,
how long they've been listening, where it then took them
in their lives, like I said in my comments, to
be able to read through that, man, this is really
(02:46):
special for me and again for myself and a lot
of my contemporaries. This is my value. Right, I'm still here.
I'm still here ten years later, I'm still touching people's lives.
I'm still affecting people's lives with this music. I'm still
able to sell out shows with this music ten years later.
So I be feeling like, man, for all the lists
I ain't getting put on for all the Yeah, you know,
(03:06):
ten years in it's not a light thing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So Ye're right about that, because they do be putting
out all these lists. I was telling un Beat that
when he was here the other day. You know, he
loves a list, and so I saw like Complex put
out the top fifty Atlanta rappers. They could do that
in Chicago too.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I mean, in general, I think, yeah, the idea of
a hierarchy or a ranking makes sense. I'm a competitor,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, we know, but when you get.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Left off for whatever reasons, I mean, it's a lot
of artists that came to affect you in a major way.
And so a lot of conversations that I've had with
like Sobbis you know and No Name and people like myself,
it is like, man, look at what we're doing. Though.
You know, it's a lot of people on those lists
who don't have six seven eight albums, who are not
in it ten twelve, thirteen years later, you understand what
I'm saying. And so I think there's a lot of
(03:55):
value in the fact that me and my fans are
still having that conversation, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, and those are loyal hardcore fans too, by the way,
because I mean, you have this residency here that's sold out,
so people can't even get tickets crazy at the Blue
Note celebrating the tenure anniversary of the Waters And that's
a testament to knowing that no matter what, there's people
that are going to come out to see and support.
And I saw when quest Love what's talking about quality music,
and he definitely named you as somebody who he feels
(04:23):
like it's overlooked amongst others. And sometimes those people who
don't get the accolades are the ones that are definitely
they can tend to be the most talented.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I appreciate that, man, the quest Love thing, that's the
kind of stuff that I was gonna say a metaphor,
but that sent me around my house. You know what
I'm saying, I'm jumping up and down.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Like Chris Love.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You know my music. You know what I'm saying. That's
somebody that I grew up idolizing, and you know, the
entire Roots band like that, that's the inspiration for me
that informs my music today.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So yeah, because I feel like black Thought don't get
also the credit as a lyricist.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
That is a great example. Yeah, the Roots has a
whole Black thought especially but when I know this right,
when I know that, or even I just saw a
black thought common uh somebody else. They was all freestyling
together that was on the internet somewhere else, and it's that.
It's the camaraderie from the niggas who do get that,
(05:18):
niggas who are on the list, you know what I'm saying,
those people who do have a certain respect when they
see you, when it's all love. When more deaths see
me and say oh the water, I mean.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah seen because he got mad. I called him most dead.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yes, my fault legend, my fault legend. When you see
me and say what's up, Waters, I'm like, that's the
validation I need.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And you know his legacy. You see, his daughter has
a huge song going crazy and I love that shit.
I was like, she got his whole face.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, I didn't see it at first. Then when I
saw him, I was like, oh, yeah, how could I
not see that?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
You know? And even just thinking about like somebody say,
David Bandit, I remember him talking about his lyrics and
then feeling like he had to dumb it down a
little in order to get that mainstream audience. Was that
something that you ever were like, you know what I'm
gonna put out? I'm just curious and y'all that's valid.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That's valid. It's something that I talk about with a
few of my friends all the time. I think, yes,
quite literally yesterday were in the hotel room and making
up silly songs. You know what I'm saying. My wife
can attest I'll make a song out of anything I'm
not gonna do right now. I'm not gonna do it
right now, I'm not. But what I'm saying is we
(06:24):
do that, and then we'll stop and say, yo, that
could really be a hit.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Could And then it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Comes the question of like would you do that? Like
would I do that? And then if the answer is yes,
it becomes why. And when the answer is because I
know it to be a hit, because I know it'll
make me some money, because I know it to go
crazy over there. If that's my only reason, it's very
hard for me to commit. I made a silly song.
(06:49):
I went shout out super I went to his house.
He had a beat going that I could hear from outside.
I come inside. He's like, what you been doing? Bro's
what you got on? I'm listening to the beat. I'm like,
I've been arguing with my wife. Nigga. Oh damn, we
freestot a whole song. It was fired and he was like,
you want to record it? I was like, nah, something
(07:10):
like that. You know what I'm saying, like, yeah, we're good. Now.
I wouldn't put something like that out. But we sit
there and they have a conversation about bro that would
really Rocky changed his work. And then that comes into
place and.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You get a reference track and let me get this
to somebody who this would be right for.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
That becomes a viable for sure. But for me, my
point was, I think there's just a certain integrity in
me that even sometimes I get frustrated about. Like a nigga,
you know, you could go crazy with it, but that's
just not what I do. Yeah, yeah, that's just not
what I do. So if what I do goes mainstream,
that'd be great.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
But and you know what that I feel like there's
also songs that I really like and it may not
have a lot of depth to it, but it could
be for a moment, yeah what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So that's what I'm saying. I imagine that if I
took a lot of my energy that I do to
make these highly conceptual records and was like, let me
just do.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
This, no doubt that fans might be disappointed. That's the
other thing to be disappointed, Okay, And so look that
brings us to you know, let's fast forward ten years, well,
nine years after that, the Patience. You put that out,
So the patients talk to me even about that title,
because there's a lot of patients that comes into play
when it's like, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
The Patients. The title came from where I was at
in my career. With The Patient's album, I felt like
I was finally in control.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I went out and got the deal that I wanted
on the terms that I wanted, and really I basically
set the terms and was like, whoever's going to accept
that is where I'm signing it.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh that's a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah. Yeah. And so at that point, even before that,
I had got out of what I thought was a
terrible deal, what a terrible situation. I learned a lot
and I had this newfound perspective. So now I approached
going out and getting a new deal this way. I
got that, and then they went above and beyond BMG,
went above and beyond what I asked and needed. So
when it came time for me to come down to
the title, I was just like, what is this? What
(08:58):
is this music? What is this body of work? And like, man,
this is the moment I've been waiting for. This is
the space I've been waiting for. I think a lot
of people would be surprised to hear. Yeah, ten years in,
five projects in and the patience is the first time
I got to do what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And you said all of that on MAP I listened
to that much for that song where you really just talked,
and so even that part was that something I have
to assume that you just were talking and it made it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You're correct, Yeah, A lot of that is that's how
I create, you know, the ethos of the song. I mean,
it's something that I've been thinking about. I tell people
all the time. Just because the song came out today,
doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it for the last
three months, and so my while I'm recording that, I
just go straight into talking at the end of the song.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
The first time, yeah, and so discuss like how you
were feeling, and just for people who maybe they didn't
catch it or what you were saying on Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I just feel like right now, even for my fans
who don't have a clear understanding, right now for me
is the best place I've ever been in my life
and the best place I've been for my career. I'm
in full control over what I do. I'm in full
control over how my music sounds. I mean, I'm in
full control of understanding how my business should work. A
lot of times as a new artist, you get told, hey,
(10:11):
you should do this this way, you should do this
this way, and you do because you don't know any better,
and when you do know better, you realize, like, well
that's a way, it's not the best way. You feel
me like, so now I haven't understanding of how to
run my business from my standards, that feels like the
best way. And so mop is me saying, Man, I'm
now ready to clean this thing up. You know what
I'm saying I'm now ready to get out there and
(10:32):
show y'all the work I've been doing, show y'all the
things that I've learned, and show y'all that I know
how to attack this industry and delivering my music to
my fans. And a lot of that just takes time.
A lot of that takes trial and error. A lot
of that takes patients waiting on the person who's going
to put the bug in Angeloyee's ar ear to actually
invite me to the interview. Right. I think a lot
(10:55):
of times when I talk about patients, I'm like, you
hit a point where there's work that needs to be
done that you can't do.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I was feeling like maybe there was this mystique about
you and you were like I'm not doing much you know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh no, not at all, not at all. I even
said to her, I was like, I think they've been
trying to do this for a few months, but we
was on tour the first time. Yeah. Like, but even
to that point, right, Sometimes you're waiting on this person
to hear you that is going to move your thing forward.
Sometimes you're waiting on this person to say your name
in this room that you're not in and no matter
(11:27):
what you do, your actions won't be the thing that
moves you forward at this point in your journey, you know.
And so that's something that I was spotlighting on that
as well. And that's what the idea of patience is
for I was doing everything I could for a good
eight nine years. You know. It was something that had
to happen in that ninth year that I couldn't control.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And you know it was Yeah, you said you talked
about the deal that you were in that you really
wanted to get out of, and you also couldn't put
out You didn't want to put out certain music while
you're locked into a deal that you don't want to
be in. How hard that being an artist and knowing that, like, Okay,
I'm not going above and beyond it, going up to
the potential that I know. I have that my fans
(12:07):
because people still love the music and it still was great,
but it wasn't what you wanted to do necessarily because
you're like, I'm not giving them this.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
It's a crazy position to be in, and I whenever
I tell people about it, I'm like, apply it to
whatever you do. It's not an art thing. It's a
comfortability thing like, if you're not happy, whatever you do,
you're probably not going to perform your best. If you're
not at peace, you're probably not going to perform your best.
And as artists, people love to be like, oh, a
tortured soul makes great art, and they do because they
(12:37):
need to express that too. But man, y'all don't know
how much y'all don't know how much a happy soul
makes God great music.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Just happy, right, yeah, yeah, just be happy for my.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Exactly, exactly, And so for me, that's what that's what
that is. It was like, all right, I'm in a
terrible situation, and while I've served the points of my deal,
I can't really drop anything new without it going back
to what I haven't recouped. Right, So, at no point
when I'm understanding, Oh, I'm understanding, and people who don't
(13:09):
have my best I'm in business with people don't have
my best interest in heart, I'm in business with people
who don't necessarily care about my work and about me
the way I do. Okay, understood, what do I have
left to do for them? One? Two, three? Y'all gotta
do these three things? Okay, I'm gonna do these three
things if I do anything else that is like this
grand express, Oh, it's so amazing. This is just y'all
(13:30):
taking a piece of that, right, And I don't mind
y'all taking a piece of that if we are working
in good faith as business partners. But when we not,
I'm not going to do anything extra for you. Why
would I?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Right? And is that something It's hard because do you
want people to know that as you're listening to the
music or is it something that you're like, let me
just get through this.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I want people to know, OK. But at the same time,
I don't want to be a nigga that's screaming look
what they're doing to me, y'all. That's why y'all not
getting what y'all want, because look what they're doing. Because
even when you do that, it's not received.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, they don't care.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I ain't never listen to any artists tell me that.
I never investigated, Like, I just moved on to what
else I wanted to listen to. So it's just like, yeah,
you don't want to be that either, put your head
down and you just try to get through it, you
know what I'm saying, Which to your question, it sucks
because while you're putting your head down trying to get
through it. People are assuming why the music ain't come
(14:22):
out in a year and a half, why this project
sounds this way, why he only did this or that
or this or that. And I'm sure as a fan,
I take part in the same thing when I'm wondering
why Kendrick can't drop for five years? You know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Let me take you Twitter and weighing in on things
that a whole different reality. They hated that people could
say the same thing you say, But let make Jenkins
come on here and talk about, Oh man, why did
Jay Cole drop out of the back?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Don't even get me on that. That's something that again,
it's not just some art thing. It's not an art thing.
It's not a music thing. People who do the thing
have the most leeway to speak about the thing.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Right, if you play sports, you probably could speak to
that more than I could because I just watch you
work in radio. I could speak about radio all that
you be here, you know the background. I can only
talk about what I see, you know what I'm saying.
So as a rapper, it'd be crazy when people feel
like I saw a lot of people not just me.
Y'all just want Cloud. Y'all just want Cloud. It's like, Bro,
(15:24):
this is some historic shit happen.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah it is, of course.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I want to talk about you know what I'm saying,
Like this don't happen every year.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Things played out. People were like j Co was smart
for dropping out of the battle because clearly somebody told
him something or for whatever reason he and we don't
know what those.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I personally feel he was very smart.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I just didn't in retrospect. I think at the time
it was like.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I didn't have a problem with him dropping out. I
just didn't understand the apology. Right, that was it for me.
I was like, I don't think he did anything where
he needs to apologize.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah that was that serious.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, that was it for me. I would get out
the white too. Yeah, yeah, I just didn't get the apology.
But you know, to each his own.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And you know, as you coming up in Chicago, right
and you know musically Chicago is kind of like where
we know Mick Jenkins from. What do you think about say,
Kanye and everything with his legacy and everything that's been
going on with him, Because I know in Chicago they
go hard for some Kanye West, but there's a lot
of things surrounding him now. We see him pulling up
to Trump rallies, we see comments that he's made, but
(16:26):
it doesn't take away from people are like, you know,
he's one of my favorite artists.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
For me, Kanye has been one of my favorite artists
for a long time. But previous to a lot of
the antics that people have in question, I wasn't rocking
with Kanye. People are always surprised to find out. But
my Beautiful Dark Twist Afinity was probably the last time
that I was rocking with Kanyek for me, because eighty
percent of the way that I digest music is creation,
(16:52):
so that last twenty percent of listening to music for
like Refuge, it's got to be things that I want
to hear, things that I want to digest. My Beautiful
Dark twis in Fantasy was the last time that I
wanted to digest Kanye's music. That was an amazing album.
The content is not something that I need when I
go to Refuge for my music, you know what I'm saying.
(17:13):
It's not so for me. I stopped being as much
of a fan as I was Kanye around that time,
and then the things that would happen in the following
years weren't so surprising to me because I feel like,
I truly feel like if you look back through Kanye's lyrics,
a lot of who he is as a person, arrogant,
not really open to a lot of other people's opinions,
(17:35):
very like, these are the ways that he's been for
a very long time. These are the ways that he
said he was going to be for a very long time.
He told y'all eight years ago, you can't tell him nothing.
Y'all thought that was just a hot chorus. He was
dead serious, you know what I'm saying. So for me,
a lot of this isn't as surprising as it is
for a lot of other people. It's very confusing. It's
(17:56):
very confusing. But I mean, I stopped being as much
of a fan quite a long time ago, and I
give everybody their space to go through they thing, you
know what I'm saying. So that's how I feel about you.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And now you don't live in Chicago anymore, So how
is that for you?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
The move to la was for work. It's been great.
I've been there for three years. I just was talking
to somebody else. So I've been to LA. Been in
New York, Chicago, a lot of different creative hubs for working.
I don't link up with more people anywhere than in
LA to really get work done.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I can see that to.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Actually, I was telling them, I was like, I love
New York. I get a lot of work done in
New York, but more than LA, I have a lot
of conversations about work that don't end up with us working.
You know what I'm saying. I have way more conversations
about the work we want to get done, and we
actually get it done out there.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
You know what I'm saying, go to the studio.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And so after three years, though, I feel like again
some of the lessons that I learned, some of the
things that I learned being with this new life, understanding
how the music industry is rapidly changing, I'm about to
go back home. I'm about to go Everything that I'm
about to do next for these next teen years in
my career, it needs to be done in Chicago. Okay,
if I do it in LA, I'm just anothering that
(19:14):
could doing it in LA. If I do it in Chicago,
I'm building something that's the city needs.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
And you know, the DNC is there the Democratic National Convention.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Asible I've heard.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I've heard so when we dove into things like that
and you see everything that's going on in the world
and things that are happening in Chicago, because they're using
that now as like everything that's wrong, they'll be like, oh,
you can see now going to the DNC, and you know,
and for me as a person that I've been to
Chicago a lot, I love Chicago, you know, yeah, obviously,
but I like literally was there the day that I
(19:43):
left the Breakfast Club. I went to Chicago straight from
the show and stayed out and went to clubs until
like four in the morning.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Oh so you came to Chicago to get your mind right?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, I went there and celebrated, you know, shout out
to all my peoples in Chicago. But you know, I'm
just wondering what you think when it comes to Kamala
Harris running for president. People have a lot of things
to say about that. The fact that Donald Trump is
running even though he's a convicted feeling now and he's
said a lot of negative things, but it feels like
he's still getting support from a lot of rappers and
(20:14):
a lot of artists. So I want to know your
take on everything that's happening right now with politics, what
you think when you're looking at the news and seeing things,
and where you get your information from.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'll start with Trump. I think rappers supporting Trump is weird.
I just assume it's about money most of the time.
I really don't know. I assume either they have some
information like a Kanye, you must have some information that
lets you know that this guy is going to do
better for your money than the other person. That's what
I assume it must be. But I have no idea
super weird. I think, just like Kanye, nothing that America
(20:57):
does really surprises me anymore. You know, I think we've
had more than enough examples that the people in office,
no matter what'side they're on, don't really care about the
everyday American. We have examples from the history of how
these people vote in office to know where their platforms stand.
(21:18):
We have Kamala Harris's history. We know what side of
the line she's been on throughout her career. You know
what I'm saying, as a as a police officer, as
a she wasn't just a police officer, she was a
day Yeah. Yeah, So I feel like I mean, I
don't have to say how I feel. There's just a
(21:40):
lot of evidence that huge parts of this are dishonesty.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I don't think anybody looks as politics as honesty.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
But which which is crazy though, because these are the
officials that are like running the country. And I think
if the idea is that dishonesty is ingrained into it,
is it? What does it matter? What I think? You know?
What does matter? What you think?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
You know what I'm saying like people who get into
politics thinking they could change things and then realize how
hard that you can, because it's like a whole system
of like, okay, you do this, and it's a lot
of like bartering, like do this, but you do this,
and then it turns into something that is not just
about what's best for people.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
My opinion is that the system as it was created
is flawless and it's doing all the things that is
supposed to do. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Chaosity, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I watched the dismantling of Twitter and everybody was so
confused about what he was doing. I was just like,
I'm not do you remember how useful Twitter was when
Ferguson was going on? Right, do you remember that they
were lying to us on TV, and you were finding
that they were lying to us on TV because of
the information you were getting on Twitter. That cannot happen anymore.
(22:52):
It can't happen anymore. It would be ridiculously unreliable information
coming from Twitter. Now, yeah, yep, there's no blue check marks.
You can pay for them. There was news publications that
had to be verified. You're worried about personal verification. News
publications had to be verified. The people that you were
(23:13):
getting honest information from had to be verified, and then
there was a problem if you were just on Twitter line.
That's not a real thing anymore. It's not an alternative
place where we can go get instant information and it
be the truth. So that's what I see when I
see Twitter get dismantled like that. It's like, well, for
(23:33):
all the fun we were having, that doesn't matter. This
was a place where real information was traveling very fast,
and it cannot do that effectively anymore. And so when
you asked me a question like that, it's like where
you want me to start, Like, what do I think?
I think it's bus. I think it's easy to see
it's bus and I think the politicians job is to
make us feel like it's not. And I don't think
(23:55):
people want to hear that from me.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, I mean, you know what I've had to realizes
that I do have to be as involved as I
possibly can to make things happen and to understand how
the system works, so you can, because what I love
is people who change policy and people who actually go
in there with a plan and then they can go
and f.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Shout out my boy Stevie Vallaz in Chicago doing a
lot to change policy. He focuses on prison inmates who
are have gotten out and are being blocked from their
ability to vote, or prison inmates who are still in
jail or prison and they have not been convicted yet,
so that they still have the opportunity to vote even
though a conviction hasn't been passed on them. That's the
(24:34):
home meet. That's one of my good friends. And you're right.
Being as involved as possible knowing about people like that
in organizations like that, so we can actually affect legislation
is the only.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Way because change is slow when it comes to politics,
but it does happen. We've seen a lot of different
you know, things go through even we talk about like
student loan reform, and people thought that would never happen.
I was one of those people, right, But a lot
of people did get their loans forgetting and they're working
on it. But it's unfortunate league keeps on getting black.
So many different things that go on. And you know
what I want to ask you, since you talked about
(25:05):
money and how that can affect how people maybe decide
who they want to be in office, you know, what's
your relationship when it comes to money? Because you have
a song like Japanese right where you talk about vices
and people chasing after money on the patients. So what
is your personal relationship when it comes to money finances,
what you spend your money on. I know you like
(25:27):
nice things, you know, but it feels like you know,
you are also aware of what it is not to
want to come to compromise your art for money.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Which foremost for me is making sure a constant evaluation
of myself that I don't love money, that I'm not
putting money above anything really in my life. Like I think,
I think we hear a lot of people talking about
how much they love money. And for anybody that's confused,
if you you know I love God. I'm a Christian.
(25:59):
I believe in about the love of money is the
root of all evil. Money yourself isn't the root of
all evil. I see people confuse this all the time.
Money the love of money is the root of all evil.
And I just see people talking about how much they
love money all the time, and it's kind of crazy
to me. So that's where I start, is evaluating myself
in that way. But my general perspective about money is access.
(26:21):
I don't praise money. I don't hold money too high.
It's access. Ninety percent of things you want in this
world you can get it with some money, right period,
So you should have a healthy respect for that. That's
how I.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Feel, like, you know what I'm saying Wednesday. So I
always think about the way that I was raised, like
not having a lot of money when I was younger,
and you know, really living like not even check to check.
To get into a point where I'm like, okay, now
I was able to buy a house and then invest
in different things, but I still never feel comfortable, like
you always feel like at some point it could be
all gone. I always think that.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
I think for myself, I try to make sure that
you know, I pay ten percent of times. I try
to make sure that I got three months, four months
saved up, you know what I'm saying. And then from
that point, that's my for my money. God, that's your life,
that's your defense. That's what he said. It's like, you
got you gotta have three months set up. You want
your life insurance, you want your defense. And then on
an offensive tip, like how I spend my money as
(27:17):
long as everything is taken care of, you know, I
try to be generous. I try to make sure that
we're having a fun life, you know what I'm saying, Like,
that's as far as money goes. That's probably as much
as I think about it. We want to buy a house,
all right, let's make a plan and let's stick to
the plan. Cool. We want to prepare for having kids,
all right, let's make a plan and stick to the plan. Cool.
That becomes bills, That becomes responsibility. Once my responsibilities are
(27:41):
taken care of, whatever I got, whatever extra we're just
trying to have a good life. We're just trying to
have fun. I don't ever like work too hard for
the money or or oh yeah, yeah, let's let's get
that last for I'll turn down shows, I'll turn down
things that I don't want to do, and money is
never the only reason why I'm gonna go do something.
And so I think that's the best way I can
(28:01):
answer your question, because even with this part, it's just
like outside of planning, and I don't really think about
money too much. I gotta be trying to do something,
you know what I'm saying. Before I came to New York,
I was like, all right, we gotta pay for sessions
for practice. Wife. You're gonna want to do a little
shop and you know what I'm saying, we gotta eat.
I gotta pay for everybody ubers. I probably need this much.
(28:22):
Outside of that, I ain't really think you know what
I'm saying. That's the way that I think about money,
But I don't really think.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
About it too much other than that, Why was that
marriage so important for you?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Why was marriage important for it?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So some people will tell you that they don't think
that marriage. You know, we could be together. Some people
will be together twenty years and then end up getting married.
Why did you say okay? Now?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
First, I was raised that way. The idea of marriage
was always an end goal for me. Beyond that. I
think I'm a person that needs somebody. I've told my
wife that a lot. I was like, I don't think
I would have in life. I think I just needed
a partner from a young age, from high school age,
from the that I started dating. I feel like I
was always It wasn't very too long being single before
(29:04):
I was in another relationship because I feel like I
need somebody, a partner to work with. We've been together
for ten years, yeah, ten years. We've been married for
four this year. My first time talking to her was
when I first got signed and I'm skating around New York.
She's in New Orleans, just talking to her on the
phone every night. You know. That ended up being three
(29:27):
She was still in school. So we're on the phone
for like three months, just loving being on the phone
five six hours at a time. So for me, very early,
I knew, oh yeah, this is a type of person
I could be with forever.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That's the best those beginnings. Yeah, yeah, just say we
were talking to the sun came up to just be
on the phone all night long, fall asleep on the.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Phone, and what three years in four years? In what
was it when I propose to four years yeah, I
just you know, we have been through a lot, and
in a sense of trying to uttering myself and trying
to do better by her, I purposed in my mind
(30:04):
at the time, I was like, all right, what are
you doing? Do you want to be with this woman?
Do you want to be with her forever? What are
you doing that shows her that? And what are you
going to do that you're not doing to make that
a reality? So that was shortly before I post proposed
to her, and for me, it was just evaluation. We've
been together this long, you're trying to do this. What
is the end goal here? You know what I'm saying like,
(30:26):
And once I figured that out, then it was all right,
make sure that she on the same page of me,
and if she on the same page of me what
she was, it was like, all right, in what we're doing,
let's do it. I knew long before I proposed to
her that that was the person that I want to
be with. I love long before I proposed her to
my partner, So it was just time.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
It seems like you hold yourself accountable just from everything
that we're talking about that there's periods of time and
be like, okay, what do I need to do.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
There's people, including my wife, who would say I don't
all the time. You yeah, yeah, I tried to try.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Guys say, now see, you're also going back to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I love it. Yeah, shout out South Africa. They are
my most voracious fans. They be on my comments, they
be on my YouTube, every social media. God, they be
on there. And I always know because I get up
early and the time difference. There's an influx of South
African comments and social media engagement at two, three, four
(31:25):
in the morning, so they be active. They are literally
top three. They go from one to two and three
all the time when we look of fans downloading, buying, purchasing, whatever.
So I love going out to South Africa. The first
time we went out there, we did a show and
then we were able to do a show twice the
size just off word of mouth two days later.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's huge.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
They love me out there.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So I love y'all right back, and I love it
there too.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, that's the camp right there, y'all. I love y'all too.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Was it life changing for you the first time that
you went to South Africa. The first time I went,
I was with my bunch of my friends came. They
were like, we're gonna come to since I got bucked
to do something, and literally like started crying as soon
as we landed.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Uh not that not that deep, but but no, but
there were moments where you just kind of sit back
and be like, wow, Like I am in Africa, you
know what I'm saying. And even I got some homies
in Ghana and Nigeria. I was like, no, not the
real Africa. Shout out David. Though you didn't go to
the real Africa. I'm like, I went. That's where I was,
you know what I'm saying. So, man, just seeing all
(32:26):
the black people being in a black country that is
a black country, you know what I'm saying. I'm sorry, continent,
but the idea of home motherland, all of those things
kind of start as an American start hitting you while
you're surrounded by all of this culture. Yeah, I think
about that a lot most of the times when I'm
overseas though, I have those kind of thoughts. I'm very
(32:48):
I mean, you should be aware of how the world
views America, good and bad, and so those are things
that are usually on my mind when I'm out the country.
So I'm still in the myriad of ways in South Africa.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Nice, that's so dope. Been there once and I'm dying
to go back. That's a long flight. It's a commitment.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, I'm used to traveling though.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So yeah, I have to be here, you know. But
I want to talk about this too. Now, let me
see if Mick Jenkins is being messy when you put
a song by Freddie Gibbs featuring Freddie Gibbs and then
Benny the Butcher right after. Yeah, now, is that something
you even realized when you did it?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Oh? I realized it.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Ok, you did it on purpose.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I didn't know they were both going to give me
my verse. That was the issue. I had been chasing
Freddy for like a year and a half, seeing Freddie
out multiple times. He from Gary, so you know, basically
a Chicago nigga, all love. But every time I hit
him to do the record, no response, which is typical
in the industry. Niggas to sdap you up, chop it up,
(33:48):
smoke with you, but when you want to work, you
ain't getting no response patience. So exactly, so all right, cool,
Freddie not hitting me back. My label loves Benny. The
label want to get Bennie. I'm like, all right, go ahead,
get Bennie. Almost really, almost the same day, we get Bennie.
Two am that morning, Freddy sent me the verse just
out the blue, no no heads up, no nothing. I'm like,
(34:10):
damn this nigga sent the verse? All right? Cool? So
I'm like, damn, we really got a Freddie and a
Bennie verse.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Put him back to back, back to bad.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So I did that on purpose, but I just had
no way of knowing I was gonna get both of
them verses because Freddy wouldn't hit me back. You know better,
Freddy easy, you know what? And I'm gonna say it too,
because this is how I felt, you know, holler at me.
But I don't think Bennie knew what was going on.
I've done what Bennie, what I believe Bennie did, which
is paid for. I give you one of my out
(34:42):
of a ten, I give one of my sevens. I
give one of my sixties. You know what I'm saying,
because it's still gonna be fire. I don't think Bennie
knew that I was about to do what I was
about to do on that joint. So I give him
a pass because he ain't come with it for real?
You know Freddy versus better. I still like the verse.
Obviously it was on it was on the album, but
he ain't come. That wasn't Bennie's best.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
If you didn't like a verse, would you not put it?
Would you send it back? Would you not put it?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Like?
Speaker 1 (35:04):
What do you do when somebody sends you a verse
and it's not a different things.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Come into play? How much did I pay for it?
How much do I like the song? Do I feel
like you hurt in the song? Or do I feel
like you're helping the song? If you hurt in the song,
I really don't care.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I'll probably take you off, okay.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And if you if I know you, I'll probably take
the song off. If I don't know you, I'm gonna
take you off, okay.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
But if you pay for it, you can't be like
I need a different verse. This wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I've never done that, and when people have done that
to me, it never went well.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
So I think that's a fair thing to say, like,
you know, this don't really fit this song? Is there?
Can we work on something else? I think that is
a fair thing to do to Okay, when didn't go well,
does that mean you just didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Do it or he's Here's the thing. If you don't
know me and you're paying for a feature, in my mind,
you're paying for what I'm giving you. Okay, But if
we're in a studio working, you know, if we have
the at least that level.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of kmaradeo, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
We could We could do whatever you want. We a
in here right now, you know what I'm saying. But
when you hey, hey, I want one of these? Yeah,
I'm ordering it, you feel me like that's essentially what
you're doing. I'm gonna do this on my own time
and then I'm gonna send it to you. Bro, you're
going especially when I'm not bs A niggas right, I'm
rapping for you. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yes, you're not giving a person you already.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Had, now what I have done. Shout out grip. He's
from Atlanta. He sent it back, like, Bro, I'm rocking
with the verse, but this is twelve bars. I bought
a sixteen. I was like, you know what, You're right,
I ain't even try to short you. That was just
a good spot for me to stop. You know what
I'm saying, but you're right, I'm gonna do the other
(36:46):
four bars. I'll do that, but nah, redoing the verse?
All right?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Well, being that it took Freddy gives this long to
put to send you his verse, who else are other
other artists right now that you're like, okay waiting for
this verse to come in because I know you did
it a lot of songs for this project, and I
know you have another project on the way.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, what we'll talk about in a second. But are
there some verses out there that you're waiting to get back?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, Jia was the other person.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Okay, but I got it. Yeah, I know you were
happy with that one.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I've never really had big features on any of my.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Projects, I know, but this is These are all pretty
big ones on the album.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
And that's what I feel good about. It is just like, man,
when I did reach out, you know, everybody showed up.
Everybody was like, yeah, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Was it for a lack of you reaching out?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Absolutely? Yeah, it was absolutely It's a lack of me
reaching out. My competitiveness. The way I viewed the industry
at the time, it was just like, no, I'm doing everything,
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna
do it. And you know, the more I've gotten into
collaborating and respecting the collaboration process for what it is,
the more I've gotten into song creation and not just rapping,
you know what I'm saying. Really well, I used to
(37:58):
be like, Oh, I rap amazing, That's all I to do.
The more I've gotten into the artistry of what I do,
the more I do those things. But yeah, there was
I would say the first five years I wasn't even
trying to work with nobody else.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Right, it worked out for you, though.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I guess I was successiful, So I can't complain.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You know what I'm saying, A right to talk about
these next two projects that are on the way.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Well, for me, I'm in a space of, like I said,
I'm fully independent now. I said that before simply because
even though I was attached to a label or something,
I was doing everything myself. Me and my team were
doing everything ourselves. I am now in a position where
I'm not even attached to anybody else, and so for me,
this is the first time experiencing that. So I want
to see what it's like to drop some music. I
(38:38):
want to see what that what them residuals and what
them worldties look back look like when I get one
hundred percent, you know what I'm saying. So right now,
I didn't even focus on a super conceptual album. I'm
feel free, so I wanted to create like that. I've
been locking in with different producers and just making different sounds.
The first producer I locked in with. His name is Emil.
He's from London. Man, this guys are and he does
(39:00):
everything him and his you know, instrumentalist everything live and
so this shit feels good, it feels big. You feel it,
and you know what I'm there's some singing thing where
you can feel it in your chest while somebody singing.
I feel like that's what the music is like. You
know what I'm saying. You can really feel it in
your chest. I love it. I'm rapping at a high
level when I got a lot to say. I think
(39:22):
for me, this is like a what do they call
it when you're trying to get your doctorate, your dissertation?
Is that they just like a dissertation for me. For
like the last ten.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Years, I saw you retweet somebody that said that you
should do some dance.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Oh yeah, and that's another. That's like I said, I'm
trying to hear different markets, different sounds, different genres. I'm
on Kate, not a I'm on Disclosures album. I definitely
can make dance music, and so I'm doing that too
as well. Wow, I'm trying to lock in with Kate,
but I feel like I'm chasing him everywhere. Holler at me.
(39:57):
But I know some guys all day reset locking in
with a few different producers that I know can can
cater to that sound. I'm trying to do that as well.
My girl MBI Lyrics. We got a whole project finish.
Slime is my DJ. We got a low five project
finished not Goodness.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
You said you went off and running. You got out
of that deal and said, I'm depending. Let's do everything
I want to do. I've been building up.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
When you say, you know, when you're in that situation
and you don't like it, does it hurt you because
you're not showing people what you're not doing well now
that I'm not I'm like, now, niggas don't get to see.
This is what I look like when I'm operating at
one hundred percent. And so for me, it's not even
a lot. You know. For me, it's just me and
a meal locked in for two weeks and we got
like nine songs done and we chose five. You know
what I'm saying. Me and ABI locked in for a month,
(40:42):
we got ten songs. Me and Slime locked in for
two separate weeks at a time, we got fifteen songs,
and we're gonna narrow those down. This is how I work,
This is this is the space at which I can go.
This is the pace at which I can go. The
ideas are not running out, and even more than that,
I'm focused on on the world building of those ideas. Right,
So I'm not just about to drop a lot of music.
(41:03):
I'm about to drop music with ideas and videos and
world building and concepts and merch And then four months
later we're gonna give you another one.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
And then five months later we're gonna give you another one.
Because this is the space that I wish I could.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Move and doing everything you want to do.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Deals don't allow you to move like this. Labels don't
allow you to move like this, like the construct of
the industry don't really allow you to drop a project
and drop another one four months later. Young boy, dropped
the project, dropped his dropped the album I think last year,
dropped the project the month later, and then I read
a release from the label that that second project would
not be counted again.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
You know what I'm saying, trying to get out of.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
His can't do it stuff like that with it, and
so it feels really free and for me, it's really
fun to be able to come at it like that
for me right now.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Oh good, Well, I'm glad you look happy. I can
I see it only if talking about it.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I'm content. I'm content for sure.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
That's a great thing. So I'm happy for you, and
thank you so much for coming through and chopping it
up with me, because this is something that I felt like,
are we going to get Mike Jenkins up? I'm glad
we did, and I appreciate that. I know you have
sold out shows. I can't even say, you know, buy
your tickets because you can't.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Thank you, New York.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
But I'm sure you're gonna ask some more, right because
you got so much going on for at the.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
End of the year. We should have a few more
water shows, for sure. We got one in Minneapolis, we're
working on one in Nashville. We're working on one in Chicago.
La keeps saying something so we might do on there.
Just keep looking out if you're trying to catch my chickens.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
All right, perfect, well, thank you so much for coming through.
Appreciate it. You got to do like a water collab
or something like that, you know what.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
The Water's ten year anniversary. We had blue Note tonight,
and it's very crazy to me that I've been singing
about water for ten years and I can't not even
the sani. You know what I'm saying. I don't even
drink the sanny. I'm saying that's the bottom of the barrel.
I can't even get the Sanni to come holler at me.
You feel me like nobody. You know what I'm saying.
I can't even get a nameless water bottle to come
(42:55):
holler at me. It's crazy, man, drink more water.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Let's try to get this done. Please, all right, please,
Oh my gosh, it's way up, way up.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Okay,
Way Up With Angela Yee News
Host
Angela Yee
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